American 'exceptionalism' is probably the greatest single factor that stands in the way of American leadership in the world. No one listens admiringly to a swaggering bully unless they're a masochist. Not many nations fit that description nowadays.
60
This says it all: As James Baldwin put it, “I love America more than any other country in the world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.” Thank you, Mr. Blow. Mr. Giulliani needs to go back to school and get it right.
68
It's a sick, feeble and infantilised country that goes on so much about whether it is loved or not. Just get on with it.
49
Every time I hear some I-can't-believe-he-just-said-that statement like Mayor Giuliani's (or the lack of condemnation by the likes of Governor Walker), I can almost hear faint dog whistles. At this point in the campaign, all the potential Republican candidates are tacking hard to the right. It's sad, but not terribly surprising, that Walker didn't condemn Giuliani's remarks.
32
Jon Stewart said it right, "We all know that Democrats hate America, the GOP has said so, ... but Republicans LOVE America. They just hate half the people who live there."
122
After Republicans Dick Cheney and George W. Bush dragged the USA through the gutters of their concocted foreign wars, which will drag on and drag us down, it is a wonder that any pretense of American "exceptionalism" still exists!
42
To embrace a idealized Republican "corporate" model, one would wonder the long-term success of such an entity if it failed to critique it's short comings and failures in order to maintain and improve it's economic viability. Is Rudy un-American for publicly ctitizing it's leader who like any CEO, seeks to improve the lot of its principles by engaging in such a self-examination? Would he have us forget slavery?
6
Rudi Guiuliani is a New York embarrassment who says stupid things for attention. He and Donald Trump are separated at birth. And you and the rest of the media give it to him. What's wrong with YOU?
30
RIght on, Mr Blow; and please, write on. We need to hear your voice, and voices like it, to counter the vipers in the snakepit of the radical right.
I heard of Giulani's outrageous statement and lost all respect for the man. Was he pandering to his audience? Perhaps, but who cares?
At the end of WW II I think that America stood - with its allies, and with countries like Denmark, where resistance to the Nazis was admirably strong - above the rest of the world. We were admired, and rightfully so, for the effort and sacrifice that we put into that war effort.
But in some regards we have strayed from that path. We misused our military might, first in Vietnam, then in Iraq, to fight ill-advised wars. We are now enmeshed in the resulting quagmire. I support President Obama in his efforts to extract America from that mess, and to recruit the rest of the world to battle the psychopathic killers roaming the Middle East and Africa.
Yes: I have long supported America's efforts and I love my country. And we must be able to criticize what we see as wrong.
I heard of Giulani's outrageous statement and lost all respect for the man. Was he pandering to his audience? Perhaps, but who cares?
At the end of WW II I think that America stood - with its allies, and with countries like Denmark, where resistance to the Nazis was admirably strong - above the rest of the world. We were admired, and rightfully so, for the effort and sacrifice that we put into that war effort.
But in some regards we have strayed from that path. We misused our military might, first in Vietnam, then in Iraq, to fight ill-advised wars. We are now enmeshed in the resulting quagmire. I support President Obama in his efforts to extract America from that mess, and to recruit the rest of the world to battle the psychopathic killers roaming the Middle East and Africa.
Yes: I have long supported America's efforts and I love my country. And we must be able to criticize what we see as wrong.
38
This reminds me of a good friend I had when I was about 10 years old. He would say "no offense, but..." and then would proceed to say something incredibly offensive. What a jerk.
28
The mere mention of American Exceptionalism" throws you leftists into raging fits! "Amerika... the great oppressor" and you're doing cheerleading backflips!!! History is clearly not on your side and Republicans need to make this their central theme in 2016.
5
It would seem that all nations reach the point where to criticize the said nation becomes tantamount to being a traitor. At this point the nation begins its slide. I would hope that the US has not reached that point. What I see around me seems to dash that hope.
22
Mr. Guiliani is shameless. But he is not stupid. His remarks resonate with the conservative GOP base, many (most?) of whom really do believe that stuff. By spouting this nonsense Mr. G. positions himself to be a major influence in GOP Presidential primaries.
17
Juliani...Simply at the opening....doesn't understand Love.
He really can't grasp what he's thinking Of.
He's gotta please his Audience at Any cost.
His words have his Purpose, but their Meaning is Lost
It doesn't make much difference if Juliani's right or wrong,
It's not his main concern if his Country's weak or strong.
His goal is the Ultimate....In My judgment it's simply sour.
Their Meaning may confuse us, but their Purpose is Control.
He really can't grasp what he's thinking Of.
He's gotta please his Audience at Any cost.
His words have his Purpose, but their Meaning is Lost
It doesn't make much difference if Juliani's right or wrong,
It's not his main concern if his Country's weak or strong.
His goal is the Ultimate....In My judgment it's simply sour.
Their Meaning may confuse us, but their Purpose is Control.
6
I can say this: I love our Country, but I distrust its politicians generally and I definitely don't love Giuliani.
30
What Mr. Giuliani said, unbidden, is that "certain Americans" are better than most "other Americans," and, therefore, have the right to judge others. It's that simple. Mr. Giuliani and his legion of followers do not want "ordinary Americans" claiming America as theirs. Au contraire, they feel that the very idea of America, not its oft-blighted realities, is the mirror they want the world to worship. This is all false, of course, but it's also their point. President Obama's elections almost destroyed their faith in the power of their absurd world-view. They're in a desperate fight to hold on to the nothingness that defines them.
23
If all Mr. Blow wishes to see are warts...which seem to magically appear in his weekly musings whether or not they exist for the reasons he suggests or, for that matter, even exist, then he will never see beauty.
He will also likely be unable to be part of any solution that may be required.
He will also likely be unable to be part of any solution that may be required.
3
Charles, You attempt to thoughtfully intellectualize something which merits only immediate contempt and condemnation. Why give Giuliani that deference? His comments are so preposterous and despicable that I actually question whether they are, or should be, covered by the First Amendment. Because what Giuliani is saying is that there is only one way to love America and be a true patriot. (The only way to be a patriot in Giuliani's view is apparently to be a buttoned-down milquetoast conservative.) To insinuate such a thing, and to demonize a sitting American President while doing so, is shocking. That's as bad as shouting "Fire" in a filled theater, in my view. I will never look at Giuliani again, and I encourage the people of New York to rescind any awards they have previously given him. He has shown his true colors, and they are garish.
18
America's exceptionalism lies in the structures set up by the founders that allow it to aim for a more perfect union. But aiming for a more perfect union requires that America be bold enough to critique itself in an unbiased manner, for how else can one improve. The President is demonstrating that he can do that. Now the rest of us need to do the same.
23
Me thinx that the national press is partly to blame for Guiliani's latest eruption: If the national press would quit reporting on everything he says, along with the likes of the two other irrelevant people holding themselves up as politicians, Trump and Palin, maybe would they go away. He knew his statement would get a rise out of someone. The blatant hate that he and others have for the PRESIDENT is beyond the pale. The hate comes from two things, inter-related: They can't not stand that he is black and, that calls into question if he is a legitimate president. The righties hated Clinton enough to have him impeached, but many of them had no personal hatred. Heck, Clinton and Gingrich used to talk on the phone four or five times a day, according to the little lizard.
Guiliani thinks he has another legitimate shot at the White House, so he must keep himself relevant and in the spotlight.
Guiliani thinks he has another legitimate shot at the White House, so he must keep himself relevant and in the spotlight.
54
An example of how pathetic Rudy Giuliani is:
In 2010, Rudy was joining Dick Chaney and other Republicans in criticizing President Obama as being "soft on terrorism".
On January 10 th 2010, on Good Morning America, in his enthusiasm to attack the President, he made this outrageous statement:
"We had no domestic attacks under Bush; we've had one under Obama."
Yes, The Mayor of New York City on September 11, 2001, forgot the 9/11 Attack on the World Trade Center,!!!!
George Stephanopoulos never called Giuliani out at that moment, and the whole incident slipped under the radar!
Fact Check
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/08/rudy-giul...
In 2010, Rudy was joining Dick Chaney and other Republicans in criticizing President Obama as being "soft on terrorism".
On January 10 th 2010, on Good Morning America, in his enthusiasm to attack the President, he made this outrageous statement:
"We had no domestic attacks under Bush; we've had one under Obama."
Yes, The Mayor of New York City on September 11, 2001, forgot the 9/11 Attack on the World Trade Center,!!!!
George Stephanopoulos never called Giuliani out at that moment, and the whole incident slipped under the radar!
Fact Check
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/08/rudy-giul...
26
I love my country, and so I desperately want her to be the best, to do the best, to set the standards. But if one is clear-eyed about things, it's all too obvious that we are failing in many things at which other countries succeed - including the old American standby of "getting ahead" (we haven't led in social mobility in some time). But we can't fix any of those things because the chant of "American exceptionalism" obviates the need to try to improve - because we are already the best, right? Even if we were - even the best can be better.
Great column, I hope this gets widely-read enough that we can start talking about the ways we can make America even better - instead of wrapping ourselves (head and all) in the flag, and refusing to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, we aren't totally perfect.
Great column, I hope this gets widely-read enough that we can start talking about the ways we can make America even better - instead of wrapping ourselves (head and all) in the flag, and refusing to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, we aren't totally perfect.
15
The last time I checked everyone in this country has a right to his or her own views. Or has the great community organizer and his ardent supporters decided that freedom of one’s opinion is a tired old concept that needs to be jettison for the new version of equality in America? I just have to laugh at the authors ignorance of and the perils of these so called new “concepts” boastfully proclaimed by this President and his supporters. Does the President love America? My answer to him and his supporters is just as cliché as the defenders of the great one, sleep with dogs you will get fleas and actions speak louder than words. Mr. Charles M. Blow, the pseudo-intellectual, of very “Old Grey Lady” know your history or you will be doomed to repeat it on the road back into tyranny.
5
as an immigrant I love this country of course, Even when I travel back to France, even France, I can feel oppression and a bigger gap between the rich and poor. Now we see Russia sneakily invading Ukraine. Who can love them for this?
People kvetch left and right here but are blind to the amazing freedom we enjoy here and yes, peace. It is not a perfect country, but it's close. Look at other countries like China, Middle East....non democratic places. This country shines and draws millions to its shores. They know how good we have it. And they don't. What is there not to love?
People kvetch left and right here but are blind to the amazing freedom we enjoy here and yes, peace. It is not a perfect country, but it's close. Look at other countries like China, Middle East....non democratic places. This country shines and draws millions to its shores. They know how good we have it. And they don't. What is there not to love?
5
America uber alles?
There is a stench of neofascism coming from the American right: racism, ultra-nationalism, xenophobia, ignorance, militarism, exclusionism, hatred and fear of modernity, love of guns, vigilantism, and a paranoiac punishment state, all under enforced patriotism coupled with hypocrisy.
"One Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" It is to gag.
The U.S. is the most class-stratified of all wealthy democracies, though democracy has been supplanted by plutocracy, government of, by, and for the extremely wealthy, who have become tapeworm parasites in the American body politic, economic, and social.
The U.S. is four nations so divided they are not in the same world. There is a 100 million underclass whose misery is without equivalent in other wealthy democracies. There is a 100 million hangers on with a slipping handhold on survival; a 100 million middle class; 20 million professionals doing quite well; 3 million rich, and 300,000 exalted vampires and parasites who suck up everything, steadily trampling on all below.
That is what has become of the American ideal, and there is no political resolution in sight, the ultras so in control there could not be another FDR to set matters right.
The U.S. is back in 1775, a pre-revolutionary state for revolution is needed to restore decency let alone equality.
There is a stench of neofascism coming from the American right: racism, ultra-nationalism, xenophobia, ignorance, militarism, exclusionism, hatred and fear of modernity, love of guns, vigilantism, and a paranoiac punishment state, all under enforced patriotism coupled with hypocrisy.
"One Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" It is to gag.
The U.S. is the most class-stratified of all wealthy democracies, though democracy has been supplanted by plutocracy, government of, by, and for the extremely wealthy, who have become tapeworm parasites in the American body politic, economic, and social.
The U.S. is four nations so divided they are not in the same world. There is a 100 million underclass whose misery is without equivalent in other wealthy democracies. There is a 100 million hangers on with a slipping handhold on survival; a 100 million middle class; 20 million professionals doing quite well; 3 million rich, and 300,000 exalted vampires and parasites who suck up everything, steadily trampling on all below.
That is what has become of the American ideal, and there is no political resolution in sight, the ultras so in control there could not be another FDR to set matters right.
The U.S. is back in 1775, a pre-revolutionary state for revolution is needed to restore decency let alone equality.
30
Isn't this all just a roundabout way of wallpapering Obama's unwillingness to go after ISIS?
On both sides?
On both sides?
5
Every time I hear people spouting off about American exceptionalism or saying, "America is the greatest country that ever existed!", I always ask them, "What other countries have you lived in?"
The answer is nearly always either a blank stare or "I've always lived here."
We are an incurious, isolated people.
We are a country of about 320 million people. As of 2014, only about 121 million people in the US had a passport. Although, that's a jump from the 52 million passports in circulation in 2001, I'm betting the jump in numbers came when the laws changed and a passport was required to travel to Canada and Mexico.
Well, due to work assignments, I have lived in other countries for several years at a stretch: the UK, Germany, France and Brazil. Each of these countries has its own strengths and weaknesses. Each one has unique aspects about its cultures and environments that I either wish the US possessed or that I am glad to not have to deal with. There is nothing exceptional about the US as a country unless you count the near-total obliviousness of most of the population that there actually IS a world outside of America that functions quite well most of the time, a world that would behoove us to study and observe and, god forbid, LEARN FROM.
The answer is nearly always either a blank stare or "I've always lived here."
We are an incurious, isolated people.
We are a country of about 320 million people. As of 2014, only about 121 million people in the US had a passport. Although, that's a jump from the 52 million passports in circulation in 2001, I'm betting the jump in numbers came when the laws changed and a passport was required to travel to Canada and Mexico.
Well, due to work assignments, I have lived in other countries for several years at a stretch: the UK, Germany, France and Brazil. Each of these countries has its own strengths and weaknesses. Each one has unique aspects about its cultures and environments that I either wish the US possessed or that I am glad to not have to deal with. There is nothing exceptional about the US as a country unless you count the near-total obliviousness of most of the population that there actually IS a world outside of America that functions quite well most of the time, a world that would behoove us to study and observe and, god forbid, LEARN FROM.
45
"America" means all things to all people. What it means to Giuliani and 60 right-leaning business executives is much different from what it means to the rest of us. We should be ecstatic to learn that Obama does not love America in Giuliani's eyes.
12
An elderly white man, not a racist, says the first black President of the United States doesn't love his country. I'm more incensed at those who have come to the President's defense (including the NY Times digging up every time the President has said he loves this country). You know, the elderly have a way of speaking their minds. One nods in agreement or shakes one's head in disapproval and moves on.
3
Are you talking about Rudy Giuliani? The guy who is getting paid huge bucks for speeches and who was at this stage to plug a particular candidate for the POTUS? The guy getting rich off 9-11? the guy who thinks if you have a white mom his foolishness is not racist??
Not sure why your value system would be blown out at people thinking that a guy like Rudy isn't really qualified to assign patriot status. You seem to be talking about an elderly neighbor, not the ex-mayor of NYC.
Not sure why your value system would be blown out at people thinking that a guy like Rudy isn't really qualified to assign patriot status. You seem to be talking about an elderly neighbor, not the ex-mayor of NYC.
11
America is a great country in principle. It's a powerful country through dint of it's arms and ability to manipulate money but it has lost whatever moral high ground it might have had. The shining beacon casts too many shadows where the talk does not match the walk. Rude Rudi and his ilk prefer to see the US as a lovely country for THEIR kind... You know the type; taxes are for the little people and laws are in place to protect them in their closed communities. There is more to love of country than saluting the flag and singing the star spangled banner.
7
The only thing that remains of American EXCEPTIONALISM is: 8 armies, 9 Fleets and 10 Air Forces. These give us the ability to install pliable regimes in some states (Sodi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar, UAR, Egypt, etc). Install client regimes (Iraq, Afghania, Pakistan, etc.). Knock the bejesus out of those who dare to stand against us (Syria, Libya, Yemen, Serbia, etc.)
We CAN kill and HAVE KILLED millions of people, and nobody can hold us accountable. WE are exceptional.
Poor Alexis de Tocqueville, might be turning in his grave. But, Hey! Given a chance, we could have cooked his turkey, and served it 1000 Gun salute, too.
We CAN kill and HAVE KILLED millions of people, and nobody can hold us accountable. WE are exceptional.
Poor Alexis de Tocqueville, might be turning in his grave. But, Hey! Given a chance, we could have cooked his turkey, and served it 1000 Gun salute, too.
5
Considering Giuliani's background and history he should be more careful about throwing bricks. A father who was a Mafia enforcer and multiple divorces - with his last ex finding out about it on the TV.
26
And your non-sequitur has to do with Obama not loving his country... how?
2
By mentioning Obama specifically Giuliani only made more personal what the Republicans have been saying since at least their 1992 convention. Pat Buchanan called for a holy war against those who didn't share his narrow, conservative Catholic view of how the country should run, someone said something to the effect that liberals were not really American as in "We know who the real Americans are," and speakers with closeted gay children and multiple mistresses got up and preached family values. Really nothing new here and the Republicans still haven't learned to combine "compassionate " and "conservative."
7
Try this. Turn to a couple whom you know and accuse them of being bad parents. "Your children seem to have no direction. They could do much better in school if you would only act as parents should. Their behavior is not proper and you apparently do not have the skills to correct it." Now. What have you done. No specifics. No suggestion as to what should be done to improve nor any clear statement as to what is actually wrong.
But you have demeaned them as parents.
This is the technique now employed by Republicans. RG's comments are among the most obvious of this approach.
May I say that if you did love this country, (although I must admit I don't know what that means) you would not seek political advantage by emasculating its democratically elected leader.
But you have demeaned them as parents.
This is the technique now employed by Republicans. RG's comments are among the most obvious of this approach.
May I say that if you did love this country, (although I must admit I don't know what that means) you would not seek political advantage by emasculating its democratically elected leader.
17
Maybe use malign, denigrate, insult, or other words.....maybe not emasculate. Like power only goes with being male.
Yes, insulting parents is a common weapon. Generalized insults are ways to avoid being refuted on specifics.
Yes, insulting parents is a common weapon. Generalized insults are ways to avoid being refuted on specifics.
4
One must consider the source of the accusation before one takes it seriously. What political objectives does that person hope to accomplish and what are their ties? I won't go into Rudy or McCain's reasons as they are quite obvious to you all. But your critique is most assuredly honest and true..."Our allegiance needn’t — mustn’t — be blind to be true. ". My country "right or wrong" must NEVER rue the order of the populace. There is ALWAYS room for improvement... no exceptions.
8
President Obama's legitimacy as an American and as our President has been questioned by the right from the minute he was elected. Put all of the rhetoric aside and it boils down to one thing, these people cannot stand the sight of a black man and his black family in the White House.
24
Everyone can love a fictional thing. To LOVE in the real world, be it a person or country, takes intelligence. No intelligence, no critical reflection, no true love. Simple, though love is complex.
7
Americans don't need Giuliani or anyone else with an agenda to tell us who loves America.
I found his statements about Obama's "white mother" bald racism and a contemptible stain on the speck that was left of Rudy's vanished reputation as "America's Mayor" - something he traded for a cash dividend while getting rich in the Fear Industry. What I hope comes out of this sorry sorry behavior is that people who pull these stunts for political gain will be pounded for it. It was McCarthyism for Joe McCarthy and it is McCarthyism when Giuliani tries it. It made Scott Walker's weak character visible in his silent "response".
I found his statements about Obama's "white mother" bald racism and a contemptible stain on the speck that was left of Rudy's vanished reputation as "America's Mayor" - something he traded for a cash dividend while getting rich in the Fear Industry. What I hope comes out of this sorry sorry behavior is that people who pull these stunts for political gain will be pounded for it. It was McCarthyism for Joe McCarthy and it is McCarthyism when Giuliani tries it. It made Scott Walker's weak character visible in his silent "response".
16
The funny thing is, the President wasn't criticizing America or Christianity when he made mention of those things a few weeks ago. He was merely pointing them out to criticize the thought process of many of the individuals in the room who wish to relegate all members of a particular nation/religion/race as evil because of the actions of a few.
Rudolph Giuliani is not America's mayor. He is an embarrassing example of everything that is wrong in America at this moment.
Rudolph Giuliani is not America's mayor. He is an embarrassing example of everything that is wrong in America at this moment.
25
I once had a principal who wouldn't hear any criticism of the school from teachers. What he failed to appreciate was that the only way we could improve anything was to reveal the weaknesses of our school whatever they were. That is criticism. Once you are aware of what is wrong you can start to make things better. That is true of our country also. I would rather live in the United States than anywhere else but I don't think it is above reproach. As to exceptionalism. I do believe the U.S. is better than most countries in the world but there are many countries that are just as good as ours. If you take individual issues we do some things better and some things worse than other countries. We are not perfect by any means.
18
During the Vietnam War years there was a popular bumper sticker "America. Love It or Leave It". To me, the people who really loved the country wanted to stay and make it better. Many times that means owning up to mistakes, learning lessons and finding a better path forward. Now, some 50 years later, the "don't want to know nothing's" are showing their ignorance again. Makes this old lady want to smack 'em.
17
Guilani's comments were heavy handed and not PC, but the fact is that Pres Obama has a world view that is very different from a significant number of Americans.
This includes a perspective that the Western World has perpetrated crimes that are of the same perversity and savagery as those of the Islamic extremists.
At this point in history, a president expressing these views in the context of embracing the likes of the charlatan/demagogue Al Sharpton are destructive and seem anti American even if he himself is not in fact a hater of Western ideology/culture.
Sammy J
NYC
This includes a perspective that the Western World has perpetrated crimes that are of the same perversity and savagery as those of the Islamic extremists.
At this point in history, a president expressing these views in the context of embracing the likes of the charlatan/demagogue Al Sharpton are destructive and seem anti American even if he himself is not in fact a hater of Western ideology/culture.
Sammy J
NYC
3
American has perpetuated crimes. Remember lynching parties? What makes us exceptional is when we can recognize our faults, discuss them and try to change. If we must accept the idea that "if the US did it, it must be right," that leads to totalitarianism and stagnation.
11
Bunk. This is not about "PC" . This is about slander of the lowest level and is not worthy of school kids, much less the ex-mayor of a major Amercan city. This is not a game where the "biggest Patriot" is the guy with the biggest trashmouth.
Giuliani was raised in a family with a criminal father. One that went to prison. One who worked for loan sharks. That gives Rudy a significantly "different" childhood experienced by most Americans. Defend that as "more American" if you would and explain how Rudy singularly channels a "real America" to the rest of us. Weaving together a bunch of available random blather about Al Sharpton is meaningless and throwing it at the wall for every discussion is just as meaningless.
Giuliani was raised in a family with a criminal father. One that went to prison. One who worked for loan sharks. That gives Rudy a significantly "different" childhood experienced by most Americans. Defend that as "more American" if you would and explain how Rudy singularly channels a "real America" to the rest of us. Weaving together a bunch of available random blather about Al Sharpton is meaningless and throwing it at the wall for every discussion is just as meaningless.
16
"Who loves a America?" points out a basic point of view difference between the Left and the Right. The Right views America in the past and believes love your country right or wrong. The left builds on the past and believes your country can always be improved. Sure I love my country but there are lots of wonderful countries on this earth with great ideas and ours can always be improved.
98
By implication, Rudy Giuliani also must believe that a majority of those who voted in the last two presidential elections voted for someone who does not love America. I can only presume he feels the same way about those voters, as he does about Pres. Obama.
26
Columnist Mark Shields had some interesting comments about patriotism/love of country and Giuliani on his Friday appearance on the News Hour. I'm sure it can easily be found on their web site. Basically as someone who had 5 deferments and petitioned a judge to change his draft status during Vietnam -- Rudy is not really qualified to comment on these subjects. I am forever amazed of how many of these tough talkers and send in the troops guys got deferments during their time. Shields by the way served in the Marines.
30
I certainly don't love this country. There is very little I like about it let alone love about it. I live here, I was born here, there are people here I love. And I do love the part of this country that resists and has resisted the world the Guilianis want to impose and have imposed on the rest of us. I think in fact people like Giuliani do represent this country--It's cruelty, it's hideous global designs, its vicious economic system. I think unfortunately Obama does love this country in ways all to similar to Guiliani.
9
When criticism distorts history and is predicated on an ill-informed polity, it loses credibility. This view of America--that its sins are at least as evident as its virtues--has a decades-long incubation, which began in the 50s, but has roots back to the 30s.
Its unique pedigree is at once antagonistic and craven, and is based on a cultural and moral confusion. To wit, George Orwell, in his 1940 review of Mein Kampf, said it was difficult for him to dislike Hitler, that he saw him as an underdog.
Obama is merely the capstone of this misinformed thinking. His narrative, on display during his apology tour in 2009, at his recent 'prayer' breakfast, and in his 'terror' conference, perfectly reflects this nascent disdain for American power projection, which, he and his ilk are convinced, is merely the next iteration of imperialism; they reject the argument--which is as close to irrefutable as possible--that capitalism and free markets is our best export, one that has lifted untold millions out of abject poverty.
So, when Guiliani, in a moment of frustration at a president determined to lower America's standing in the world, which compromises our national security, speaks the truth, the left puts him in stocks.
But, we should also not forget that our fellow citizens elected Obama, so there are millions of wakeful somnambulists whose understanding of history and economics could be recorded on the back of an envelope, with room for the Gettysburg Address.
Its unique pedigree is at once antagonistic and craven, and is based on a cultural and moral confusion. To wit, George Orwell, in his 1940 review of Mein Kampf, said it was difficult for him to dislike Hitler, that he saw him as an underdog.
Obama is merely the capstone of this misinformed thinking. His narrative, on display during his apology tour in 2009, at his recent 'prayer' breakfast, and in his 'terror' conference, perfectly reflects this nascent disdain for American power projection, which, he and his ilk are convinced, is merely the next iteration of imperialism; they reject the argument--which is as close to irrefutable as possible--that capitalism and free markets is our best export, one that has lifted untold millions out of abject poverty.
So, when Guiliani, in a moment of frustration at a president determined to lower America's standing in the world, which compromises our national security, speaks the truth, the left puts him in stocks.
But, we should also not forget that our fellow citizens elected Obama, so there are millions of wakeful somnambulists whose understanding of history and economics could be recorded on the back of an envelope, with room for the Gettysburg Address.
3
I know enough about economics to see how much better off we are with Obama at the helm rather than G.W. That you can't see that speaks volumes about you.
22
It is Rudy Giuliani that does't love America or even know what it is.
It was Rudy who said "Putin is what you call a leader.” He prefers a Communist dictator to the President of the United States because of his confused idea of what America is all about.
It was Rudy who established "stop-and-frisk," a guilty until proven innocent practice antithetical to the American system of justice.
Rudy stopped being a statesman or a serious contender for President long ago.
He has been relegated to the far-right wing rubber chicken speaking circuit with the likes of Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter.
It doesn't matter to the people paying his bills what outrageous, offensive thing he says - just like Palin and Coulter.
However, it is a distraction to the thoughtful and deliberate Americans left amongst us to see these shills debase the content of political discourse.
Even the legitimate media covers this sad side-show for the pure shock value of hearing a once relevant political figure say something so disgraceful and scurrilous about a great man and outstanding American President who steered the country away from the brink of ruin.
It was Rudy who said "Putin is what you call a leader.” He prefers a Communist dictator to the President of the United States because of his confused idea of what America is all about.
It was Rudy who established "stop-and-frisk," a guilty until proven innocent practice antithetical to the American system of justice.
Rudy stopped being a statesman or a serious contender for President long ago.
He has been relegated to the far-right wing rubber chicken speaking circuit with the likes of Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter.
It doesn't matter to the people paying his bills what outrageous, offensive thing he says - just like Palin and Coulter.
However, it is a distraction to the thoughtful and deliberate Americans left amongst us to see these shills debase the content of political discourse.
Even the legitimate media covers this sad side-show for the pure shock value of hearing a once relevant political figure say something so disgraceful and scurrilous about a great man and outstanding American President who steered the country away from the brink of ruin.
19
Why do we keep talking about "exceptionalism" as if it's a virtue in and of itself? Fetishizing it in this manner goes a long way in holding us back, because just as surely as it describes some things we do well, it can be used to excuse our shortcomings.
While business, education, medicine, law, and many other areas of life seem to understand and benefit from the concept of "best practices," any attempt in the political sphere to point out a good idea that originated somewhere else is liable to be shot down, typically with a rejoinder to the effect, "We don't want to be just like everyone else, do we?" And so we stagnate, but at least we do it our own way.
Most developed countries provide guaranteed, state-funded health care, typically in a single-payer model. Except this one.
Most developed countries have abolished capital punishment. Except this one.
Most developed countries, and some that we still consider "developing," are able to recognize that history did not end shortly after WWII, and thus are willing to invest in science and technology so that they can remain relevant today and tomorrow, rather than endlessly celebrating the accomplishments of yesterday. Except this one.
Most developed countries that have capitalistic economies recognize that some regulations and programs that shield individuals and families from being crushed by market forces are necessary and indeed helpful to the overall economy. Except this one.
And so on.
While business, education, medicine, law, and many other areas of life seem to understand and benefit from the concept of "best practices," any attempt in the political sphere to point out a good idea that originated somewhere else is liable to be shot down, typically with a rejoinder to the effect, "We don't want to be just like everyone else, do we?" And so we stagnate, but at least we do it our own way.
Most developed countries provide guaranteed, state-funded health care, typically in a single-payer model. Except this one.
Most developed countries have abolished capital punishment. Except this one.
Most developed countries, and some that we still consider "developing," are able to recognize that history did not end shortly after WWII, and thus are willing to invest in science and technology so that they can remain relevant today and tomorrow, rather than endlessly celebrating the accomplishments of yesterday. Except this one.
Most developed countries that have capitalistic economies recognize that some regulations and programs that shield individuals and families from being crushed by market forces are necessary and indeed helpful to the overall economy. Except this one.
And so on.
20
These people are actually hating on Obama out of inferiority complex ... for his curiosity and engagement with the global community which they don't have. It's much more easier to attack his knowledge than to admit their own ignorance.
20
The terms love and passion are greatly overused. One wonders how many times Rudy used the two words with his first wife before he publicly kicked her to the curb.
Oh, and Rudy, if you really loved the country, why didn't you serve in the Armed Forces instead of grabbing deferments? Same reason Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney dodged the draft? Where was the love?
Oh, and Rudy, if you really loved the country, why didn't you serve in the Armed Forces instead of grabbing deferments? Same reason Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney dodged the draft? Where was the love?
30
Like so many other misguided conservative pundits, Giuliani was clearly trying to tap into the racism that pervades the Republican base. To make matters worse, he later explained that his comments were really directed at Obama's upbringing by his white mother. Presumably, this makes him less racist because he also harbors animosity toward white women who marry black men. He is an embarrassment - worse than Trump.
14
To the far right - which Rudy Guiliani represents - anyone who does not wrap himself with the American flag, embrace unbridled capitalism with one hand and hold the Bible in the other, is an enemy of America. Of course, if that someone happens to be a non-white liberal president, Guiliani & Company's hatred toward him magnifies exponentially.
13
Republicans have always challenged the patriotism of their political opponents. Such McCarthyism is woven into right-wing DNA. If conservatives can seriously question the patriotism of someone like Max Cleland, who lost his legs fighting in Vietnam and whose record was decidedly moderate, they can and will go after anyone. At least a few Republicans have enough insight to understand the strategic use of what Lee Atwater called "dog whistles." Most, however, unquestioningly feel entitled to assume "love of country" is exclusively theirs to define, pathetically conflating substantial policy debates with propogandistic flag-waving.
19
C. Blow is exactly right. The idea that it is unpatriotic to criticize your country is nonsense. I suppose it might be unpatriotic to criticize and then fail to vote or otherwise fail to support your country or to take part in civic life, but President Obama not only votes, he serves. He sought public life precisely because he is critical. He sought to address what is wrong. How can that be called not loving your country? How can that be called not caring?
16
Being honest doesn't mean you don't love your country. Quite the opposite.
7
Giuliani has become pitiful and pathetic. It's sad.
12
Rudy Giuliani might have gotten away with his remarks by qualifying them. For example, he could have said something like:
I don't believe that Pres. Obama loves American enough. Or I don't believe he cares enough. or is interested enough.
My problem with the President is that he seems too detached, aloof. That aloofness might suggest that he just doesn't care enough.
I don't believe that Pres. Obama loves American enough. Or I don't believe he cares enough. or is interested enough.
My problem with the President is that he seems too detached, aloof. That aloofness might suggest that he just doesn't care enough.
2
Or maybe he isn't touchy feely enough......
6
I have plenty of problems with Obama's 'style - I wish he used a lot more 'teaching moments' over the last 6 years, especially in relation with congress - it would have been a good way to educate the people, who seem to have the memory of a gnat - and that is partly due to the way 'breakng' news is splashed around --- but no matter WHAT your problem, using his style to say he doesn't love America is a weak excuse because your have already been convinced - Did the 'good 'ol boy' who preceded him love America more ? ----
5
What a great way to say this. Bravo.
"America is a living idea. It isn’t only the tenets of its founding, but also the terms of its future. Every day, we make America."
"America is a living idea. It isn’t only the tenets of its founding, but also the terms of its future. Every day, we make America."
5
Discussions on "American exceptionalism" and specific foreign policy issues are always interesting, but they can only be productive if we show our interlocutors a basic level of respect. At a minimum, that should mean accepting the assumption that we all care about our country and want it to succeed. Ideally, it also should assume that each of us has something to learn from people with different experiences and orientations in foreign affairs.
People like Giuliani, by contrast, attach pejorative labels to those they disagree with, ending all possibility of constructive dialogue and making it all the more difficult to arrive at effective U.S. foreign policies.
People like Giuliani, by contrast, attach pejorative labels to those they disagree with, ending all possibility of constructive dialogue and making it all the more difficult to arrive at effective U.S. foreign policies.
1
These litmus tests that require one to regularly assert one's love of Christ or country or wear a flag pin remind me of my time traveling in Pakistan on business. In Pakistan it seemed that every statement had to be followed by Insha'Allah which could sometimes be rather disconcerting such as when the stewardess said "the plane will soon be landing, Insha'Allah".
I don't object to folks professing their beliefs but I do object to it becoming so routine and required that it becomes meaningless and a cudgel to use against those who actually speak thoughtfully. Let's not forget Samuel Johnson's famous saying " Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." It seems particularly apposite when regarding Rudy Giuliani
I don't object to folks professing their beliefs but I do object to it becoming so routine and required that it becomes meaningless and a cudgel to use against those who actually speak thoughtfully. Let's not forget Samuel Johnson's famous saying " Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." It seems particularly apposite when regarding Rudy Giuliani
10
You are right:
"You can simultaneously love and be disappointed in the object of your love, wanting it to be better than it is. In fact, that is a measure of love. Honest critique is a pillar of patriotism."
Right now I am disappointed.
"You can simultaneously love and be disappointed in the object of your love, wanting it to be better than it is. In fact, that is a measure of love. Honest critique is a pillar of patriotism."
Right now I am disappointed.
6
Considering the polarization of America being one of Obama's greatest achievements he just might not love America. Obama has never seemed to be a patriot or having respect for the rule of law or US Constitution. His treatment of our military has left 85% of our troops with a negative opinion of the President. I think Giuliani is on track with this assessment of Obama. To bad the leftist media is so blind to the truth.
3
Really? I have to wonder about troops who would approve of G.W. who sent them off to be killed and maimed.
It's not President Obama's fault that so many people on the right are ignorant and bigoted and foolish enough to vote against their own interests. He's worked hard to help those people. If they can't see and appreciate that then they're the ones being divisive.
It's not President Obama's fault that so many people on the right are ignorant and bigoted and foolish enough to vote against their own interests. He's worked hard to help those people. If they can't see and appreciate that then they're the ones being divisive.
7
I'd say the polarization of America is the greatest achievement of Fox News and talk radio.
10
Wonderful column, Mr. Blow, spoken like a true patriot who loves the ideals America represents and understands that we are an unfinished nation, sometimes lurching this way or that, most of us always striving forward as always against royalists and bigots for a fair and just society.
5
god loves america and everyone is suspect until proved by tax returns and service to family, country and being nice to the world....
1
"I love America more than any other country in the world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.” I only agree with this sentiment IF YOU VOTE. If you don't vote (and be engaged with the political process), it seems hard to sanction much dissatisfaction.
4
Rudy Giuliani is now trapped in an America that he does not understand. When you reflect on his recent political history he ran for President and lost abysmally. He spent a great deal of time and money in Florida and came in 4th or 5th in that Republican primary. He came in 3rd or less in pretty much every primary he competed in and ultimately dropped out. Remember when he first entered the Presidential political arena he was the presumed front runner. Barack Obama became the President and for the last 6 years a whole generation of very young people have grown up and they will take with them all through life that the first memory they have of the leader of the free world is a man of color a Black man. Try as he might Rudy and company will never be able to undo this. No matter how loud his dog whistle is or how many falsehoods he spreads about the man who achieved what he could not. Those same impressionable youngsters will remember Rudy as that tired,angry,unhappy and yes racist old dude that tried to stand in the way of real justice and progress. You know just like Bull Connor and George Wallace.
9
Ultimately, it will be Americans and Americans only that will determine how they feel about their country, however, if we put any stock in the polls whatsoever, that "good feeling" is not heading in the right direction and in recent years,compared to most of the other industrialized democracies in the world, the voting numbers(or lack of them), pretty much tell the story. Frankly, to me, constantly having to remind someone of a "love of anything" indicates that more than likely, something is wrong with it.
It is fine for Rudy Giuliani and persons of his ilk to stick out their chest and criticize others that don't think like him, however, it would seem a good portion of Americans now think that what made the country "exceptional" in the past is now only "exceptional" for the select few.
It is fine for Rudy Giuliani and persons of his ilk to stick out their chest and criticize others that don't think like him, however, it would seem a good portion of Americans now think that what made the country "exceptional" in the past is now only "exceptional" for the select few.
3
Christianity, and Roman Catholicism in particular, hasn't been as openly excoriated as it is today since the days of the Know Nothings and Millard Fillmore.
1
One theme I see in comments is that it is somehow the job of Republicans to disavow the things Guiliani said. He is welcome to his opinion, I disagree. It should be as simple as that. If someone who is a Democrat makes a goofy comment, are all Democrats supposed to run out and disavow it? I think not. We are just to darn sensitive.
3
Shock Jockery and cheap shots are all that's left once you've wedded yourself to an ideology which as absolutely nothing of substance to offer the body politic.
7
The former Mayor says President Obama does not love America! I say President Obama IS America! At least he represents the America we say we are, the America we want others to believe we are! He represents the America we could be, if we lived up to that one sentence in the Declaration of Independence....."All Men Are Created Equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain......" Well you know the rest!
9
Criticism is a funny thing. It can be quite constructive and nurturing if it is given with good intentions. But when its given with hate, it shows us more about the giver than the person being criticized.
And on the receiving end, if you have humility, you are able to accept the constructive criticism, make needed corrections and further improve yourself. While those who live in self aggrandizing bubbles cannot accept even constructive criticism without being mortally deflated, so they lash out at giver, even though it was well intentioned.
When the President criticizes our darker past, it is meant to be helpful. Some of us recognize that and acknowledge the intention with which it was given. While others lash out because they cannot face even the truth.
The other funny thing is - those who cannot accept any criticism spend a lot of time dishing it out, even if it is made up.
Does this remind you of any particular party??
And on the receiving end, if you have humility, you are able to accept the constructive criticism, make needed corrections and further improve yourself. While those who live in self aggrandizing bubbles cannot accept even constructive criticism without being mortally deflated, so they lash out at giver, even though it was well intentioned.
When the President criticizes our darker past, it is meant to be helpful. Some of us recognize that and acknowledge the intention with which it was given. While others lash out because they cannot face even the truth.
The other funny thing is - those who cannot accept any criticism spend a lot of time dishing it out, even if it is made up.
Does this remind you of any particular party??
12
Yes, Democrats and especially Obama. He cannot accept any criticism and he spends all his time dishing it out. And he makes a lot of it up.
4
I am surprised the ego-manical narcissist's rant made it to print or got a podium on TV. This should have been buried just like Osama bin Laden in the sea. The fact that we are discussing shows OUR OWN degenerate needs for sensationalism. First there was the totally obnoxious Birther issue coming from none other than the bad-hair Donald Trump. It did not rest until our President's birth certificate was produced - imagine our President's birth certificate! And now this coming from America's Ex-Mayor. the unquestionable Patriotic Mayor, a tower of strenth for a City in despair after 9/11. How far the mighty have fallen showing their true colors. Anything for the Green. Even a deal with Qatar which gave refuge the master planner of Sept. 11. He loves his country alright.
7
The birther issue came from Hillary's campaign in 2008.
2
I believe that you can and should criticize things present and past that are deceptive, lies, and evil, not only here but around the world. No religion, no race, no class, no gender should be left out. And herein lies the problem. If you start with yourself and your tribe, you will have an honest assessment. However, if one clings to their tribe, then truth will never be told nor will it be believed. The human animal is very tribal. Rise above that, and you will be one of the few who sees things clearly, but you will end up being alone and with few friends, as most people can not stand the truth of reality as the responsibility to do something is so great and political deception lies in the way of immediate action, and that is why millions suffer and die, while people debate, usually what they don't understand or care about in a serious way.
3
Nobody cares what happens to something they don't love, nor do they want to fix anything they don't love. Usually, they just walk away and forget it.
14
The fact of the matter is that many of us Americans -- of African, Chinese, Japanese, Native American, Irish, Mexican, one could go on and on -- descent, still do deeply love this country despite the terrible, terrible things that have been done to us and our ancestors (under the name of religion mostly). But through that familiarity with the darkside of America we know first hand that there is more to be done, both domestically and internationally, before America can truly live up to its ideals. Those who cannot face criticism of America have probably never truly suffered from America.
24
Say what you will, Obama is not a beloved figure. We haven't had one in the oval office since Reagan whom I personally could not stand, but he loved America and got love back. The same cannot be said of Obama. He remains as controversial as ever.
5
Nonsense. Reagan was more divisive than Obama. It's the right wing media that have subsequently turned him into a universally beloved figure.
2
He was elected by a clear majority twice. I myself have grown very fond of him.
I'm not looking to love any politician, I'm looking for someone who will try their best to do a good job for the entire country, not just a small percentage of the country.
President Obama does his best for all of us and for the most part he's done a good job, despite Republican opposition. If some people can't appreciate that, it's their problem.
I'm not looking to love any politician, I'm looking for someone who will try their best to do a good job for the entire country, not just a small percentage of the country.
President Obama does his best for all of us and for the most part he's done a good job, despite Republican opposition. If some people can't appreciate that, it's their problem.
6
First off, I want a President. Already got a dad, don't need a Messiah, and do 't want a movie star.
Second, views differ. Ask survivors of the 200-odd Marines we lost in Beirut for nothing. Or friends and family of the clerics, teachers, nirses, who got killed by right-wing squads because of Iran/Contra.
Third, please quit with this pretense that everybody in America--at least, all the REAL Americans--have to think just like you. The political correctness is tiresome.
Second, views differ. Ask survivors of the 200-odd Marines we lost in Beirut for nothing. Or friends and family of the clerics, teachers, nirses, who got killed by right-wing squads because of Iran/Contra.
Third, please quit with this pretense that everybody in America--at least, all the REAL Americans--have to think just like you. The political correctness is tiresome.
10
as we evolve and move forward in a positive way, so does our darkness come to light.
2
When Giuliani says the President wasn't raised like them he means that the President isn't of the same exclusive class as they are. We have been fooled into thinking that these are self made men who pulled themselves out of poverty of lower middle class by their bootstraps. when the opposite is true. They are the children of middle, upper middle class, and upper class people, People who may have worked in a factory but made good money and have nice pensions to live off of. They could go to college or take a risk in a business venture because they had Moms and Pops to provide them with a soft place to land if they failed. The President being raised by a single Mom is not privileged enough to be of their Class.
People like Giuliani are more disturbing because it wasn't too long ago that someone with a last name like his wouldn't have been accused of getting his fortune in an illegal manner whether they had or not. It seems the most prejudiced people are those whose nationalities were most oppressed when they got here but now have made an inroad into the upper classes.
America the supposed classless society has become more stratified than Europe because we all still bear the pain and guilt of our history. It is time to heal ourselves and understand that the Great American experiment is at stake because of a few of the privileged classes that do not believe in America and the President definitely isn't one of them.
People like Giuliani are more disturbing because it wasn't too long ago that someone with a last name like his wouldn't have been accused of getting his fortune in an illegal manner whether they had or not. It seems the most prejudiced people are those whose nationalities were most oppressed when they got here but now have made an inroad into the upper classes.
America the supposed classless society has become more stratified than Europe because we all still bear the pain and guilt of our history. It is time to heal ourselves and understand that the Great American experiment is at stake because of a few of the privileged classes that do not believe in America and the President definitely isn't one of them.
92
Well, Giuliani's father was a mob enforcer who did hard time. So, yeah, Obama probably wasn't raised like him.
7
In his book, The Prophets, Abraham J. Heschel (1907-1972) the Jewish theologian writes, “[...] there is only one factor on which the shape of history depends; the [ethical] conduct of the nations.” He advises, “[...] instead of cursing the enemy, the prophet condemns [his] own nation.”
3
I agree with Giuliani. Obama doesn't love the basic ideas of the country. He wants to change it to something else that is significantly different. That doesn't equal love in the case of people or countries. Obama has shown a disdain for the people and their opinions. He makes it clear that he knows best. His silly comments about the Crusades expressed his contempt for Christianity as has his disregard for the desire of people to express and act on their religious beliefs when they those beliefs are in conflict with his policies.
4
Giuliani loved America so much he put a Comm Center in the WTC after the 1993 bombing (overruling key aides) and refused the comm equipment the Police and Fire Depts. wanted so as to serve a corporate crony. I guess you'd call that tough love.
9
I got a shiny nickle right here says you've never read Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience," let alone Lincoln's Second Inaugural or any of the other books and speeches and arguments that make up our--and it is "our," as much as you guys hate the idea--American tradition of ideas.
5
I think Obama made it very clear he does not love America back in 2008, and since then. He said he wanted to fundamentally transform it. Why would you want to do that if you love the country? Why would your wife say she is proud of her country for the first time in her life after you got elected? She was obviously not proud of her country before. Why would he make friends with a terrorist (Ayers) who clearly hates this country? If you look at his upbringing, his father hated this country, his mentor (Frank Marshall Davis) hated this country, one of his biggest influences (Alinsky) hated this country, and his pastor for 20 years hated this country. Giuliani simply said what most Americans already felt.
4
uuhhmmm, No....not most Americans. He was re-elected twice by significant margins among the voting public. The haters are the easily duped ditto heads who repeat bumper-sticker tropes promulgated by the rightwing noise machine, such as the silly ones you listed. Most of the nation, by and large, isn't listening to the haters, bigots, and simple-minded.
5
Reasonable my foot. How does polluting our air and water, killing and maiming our service members, trashing our economy and denying our citizens health care and a living wage equate to love of country? Republicans have done all those things and will continue to do so given the chance. That's not my idea of love. Why is it yours?
5
No, not most Americans - only those who believe their insular group represents American thinking. Time to get outside the bubble for some fresh air.
5
I had retired this website dedicated to "America's mayor," but immediately resurrected it this past weekend: www.rudymental.com. Can this man not find the decency to quietly enjoy the millions he's raking in from Big Business and just shut up?
10
Well at least he gave Rush Limbaugh a weeks worth of hate material. I expect it from him, but from Bobby Jindal or any other "leader" of a state? There is no excuse for it...period. You can question or be angry at any policy of his that you would like, but to stoop into the deepest political gutter only gives some hope to the possibility of change in November. But until then, why are we even tolerating this?
7
Right-wingers love right-wing Americans; left-wingers love left-wing Americans. It would be very surprising to come across an American who truly loves all of America.
1
People on the left believe that everyone should have clean air and water, the right to vote, a living wage and affordable health care etc. I've never seen anyone on the left claim that some segments of the population shouldn't have these things but I've seen lots of people on the right trying to deny these things to people.
10
Sorry, but as tiresome as some of the guys and gals get, those of us who sang Woody Githrie's "This Land Is Your Land," back in grade school pretty much do.
We also tend to accept the fact that clowns like Rudy Giuliani are part of the American comedy adition.
We also tend to accept the fact that clowns like Rudy Giuliani are part of the American comedy adition.
7
Mr. Blow you didn’t comment on the far most interesting part of Giulaini’s comment: “He doesn’t love you. And he doesn’t love me.” Frighteningly that is what this is all about. Obama doesn’t stroke the egos of the moneyed class the way the last four presidents have. The lethal cocktail that is now poisoning the right is fundamentally kindergarten stuff – “He doesn’t like us” (and he would if he were white!).
11
The irony of politicians who bemoan the lack of American Exceptional-ism and advocate for trade policies that send American jobs overseas. If we are so exceptional, then how is it that corporations are so eager to acquire overseas talent? In both cases, they are really moaning about privileges of the ruling class. Projecting American dominance comes at the price of sending working-class troops into harms way: if we love our fellow Americans as much as Giuliani says he does, he might be more hesitant about policies that imply their dispensability. It's just another example of the ruling class defining patriotism on their terms.
5
"Does exceptionalism — if one accepts the premise — bestow exemption from critique?"
Does being President of the United States bestow exemption from critique? Even of the harshest variety? Or do you simply want to have it both ways?
As disturbing as Mr. Guliani's statements were, I find the backlash they've generated that much more so.
We have Presidents. Not Kings.
Does being President of the United States bestow exemption from critique? Even of the harshest variety? Or do you simply want to have it both ways?
As disturbing as Mr. Guliani's statements were, I find the backlash they've generated that much more so.
We have Presidents. Not Kings.
4
The backlash is because so many of us despise Guliani.
1
We also are spozed to have citizens, not mindless robots repeating and repeating every silly thing the likes of Giuliani say as if it were gospel truth on their way to endless pep rallies.
1
If we had a king, he'd be shouting off with his head.
Officially, the President has said little about Giuliano's vitriol.
So far, the worst I've heard said of Guiliano from the public is that he avoided service in WWII. Which begs the question, just how much did Rudy love his country?
It's a valid criticism of Giuliano, certainly more factual than claiming that the President doesn't love America.
Nevertheless, even a broken clock is right twice a day; it's doubtful that the President loves Rudy.
Officially, the President has said little about Giuliano's vitriol.
So far, the worst I've heard said of Guiliano from the public is that he avoided service in WWII. Which begs the question, just how much did Rudy love his country?
It's a valid criticism of Giuliano, certainly more factual than claiming that the President doesn't love America.
Nevertheless, even a broken clock is right twice a day; it's doubtful that the President loves Rudy.
1
Giuliani did what he wanted to do: get some free media exposure before the big conservative confab next week.
Make no mistake: there he will be given a standing o by the far-righters who hate Obama. His stock amongst them will soar, and so will his speaking fees.
Just another hack stirring the pot of right-wing hate to fatten his wallet.
Make no mistake: there he will be given a standing o by the far-righters who hate Obama. His stock amongst them will soar, and so will his speaking fees.
Just another hack stirring the pot of right-wing hate to fatten his wallet.
13
How many deferments did the patriot Giulliani receive so that he didn't have to serve in the Vietnam War? Oh, and that super patriot Dick Cheyney found a way to not put himself in harm's way.
12
The idea of gleaming shores across the Atlantic (the Pacific shores were closed virtually the moment the last spike was driven in the made-by-Chinese transcontinental railroad) was always about economic opportunity, NOT political equality. American immigration was always about improvement--economic self-improvement. That trend began slowing, then stopped altogether, in the mid-1980s, the Reagan era. Those are numbers, not opinions.
When the Statue of Liberty was built, Britain was the "greatest" country on earth, i.e. the richest, largest empire by far. Two world wars, combined with national liberation movements (above all in India, but in Africa also) brought an end to Hail Britannia. What once was is no longer.
That effect is now taking, has taken, hold in the USA. After 1945, we were the only industrial power that lay, largely, untouched. Of course we were the "most powerful" because our economy was not only still fully functioning, but we were rebuilding shattered Europe and Japan. Once that painful process was complete, the competition was on. Then what? Well, look at GM ca. 1958 vs 2008, and vs Toyota or VW in those years. The war and rebuilding Europe was good for American workers; their progress stopped and has now reversed, whether Rudi et al. wish to acknowledge the numbers or not.
Love letters aren't usually stated as spreadsheets--but they could be. Rudy's spreadsheet reads like 1954. It's passé.
When the Statue of Liberty was built, Britain was the "greatest" country on earth, i.e. the richest, largest empire by far. Two world wars, combined with national liberation movements (above all in India, but in Africa also) brought an end to Hail Britannia. What once was is no longer.
That effect is now taking, has taken, hold in the USA. After 1945, we were the only industrial power that lay, largely, untouched. Of course we were the "most powerful" because our economy was not only still fully functioning, but we were rebuilding shattered Europe and Japan. Once that painful process was complete, the competition was on. Then what? Well, look at GM ca. 1958 vs 2008, and vs Toyota or VW in those years. The war and rebuilding Europe was good for American workers; their progress stopped and has now reversed, whether Rudi et al. wish to acknowledge the numbers or not.
Love letters aren't usually stated as spreadsheets--but they could be. Rudy's spreadsheet reads like 1954. It's passé.
7
The eastern half of the transcontinental railroad was built by the Irish, not the Chinese. Learn some history.
2
Notice how much media attention Giuliani has garnered from his attacks. Mr. 9/11's attacks distract us from the reality that the Department of Homeland Security, which was formed in response to 9/11 and for which Giuliani buddy Bernie Kerik was all set to head, will shutdown on Friday if Congress doesn't act. How un-American is that?
72
Congress has acted and passed a bill funding the department. It is Senate Democrats who are filibustering the bill and preventing it from being passed.
Wrong, the House has passed a bill, not Congress. Last time I checked the Senate is part of Congress.
1
You forgot the part where the Republicans distorted the funding bill with amendments pertaining to immigration. That's what is holding up the bill. If the bill was just funding the President would have signed it already.
4
Tío caimán says America when he should say USA, stealing the identity of mexicans, central and south americans
Don’t count me in, I don’t understand which is not the same as Yucatan.
Love is respect of the free determination of the segregated countries, Guatemala, Salvador, Honduras, etc. or you may have forgotten that we are americans and we are humans.
So tired of hearing such geography ignorance as well as disrespect, you don’t own me, so do not dare speak for me.
Don’t count me in, I don’t understand which is not the same as Yucatan.
Love is respect of the free determination of the segregated countries, Guatemala, Salvador, Honduras, etc. or you may have forgotten that we are americans and we are humans.
So tired of hearing such geography ignorance as well as disrespect, you don’t own me, so do not dare speak for me.
1
American "exceptionalism" morphed President Polk's "manifest destiny" slogan from which USA contrived; the trumping up Mexican-American War, to appropriate Texas, CA and most of present day Southwest.
The irony, Mexico's descendants in great numbers have come across that redrawn border to reclaim their birthright.
It is often stated by deniers of US history; I cannot be blamed for what my father did long ago; thus it should follow neither should you take credits for what has come before. How is it we deny our ancestors debts, but not their assets?
The irony, Mexico's descendants in great numbers have come across that redrawn border to reclaim their birthright.
It is often stated by deniers of US history; I cannot be blamed for what my father did long ago; thus it should follow neither should you take credits for what has come before. How is it we deny our ancestors debts, but not their assets?
2
Appalling,Despicable,Inflammatory,Provocative,Incendiary are a few adjectives that come to mind when I think of the the former Mayor Giuliani's discourse, if you will, in regard to President Obama's Love of America.
Bigotry at it's best!
Bigotry at it's best!
3
Great column that we should all take to heart. One has to question Giuliani's motivation in lowering himself into the gutter and making such comments. Jealousy? Or just plain meanness? It certainly has backfired.
6
I was going to stop posting comments because it just seems ridiculous to get agitated over people's remarks, and I was going to ignore Giuliani's remarks but everyone is paying attention. So..... Guess who doesn't love America? Giuliani, Scott whatever from Wisconsin, the parents and kid who did the video in Georgia which will haunt him the rest of his life, and all the supposed America lovers who debase our national values by fostering division and animosity between people for political gain. That's who.
6
I've never understood the "My country, right or wrong" mentality. I love the freedom and ideals that are our bedrock, but I cringe at some of the horrors we've inflicted on the world: the land-grabbing slaughter of Native Americans, the interment of Japanese civilians in the U.S. during WWII, the bogus justification of our ill-fated invasion of Iraq, the recent demonization of immigrants, union workers and the poor.
A truly great nation, like truly great people, work to make the world a better place, learn from mistakes and have the moral fiber to say I'm sorry. Mr. Giuliani, who once appealed a judge's decision that stopped his then-girlfriend from sleeping at Gracie Mansion when his wife and children were there, obviously believes bluster is easier to swallow than the truth.
A truly great nation, like truly great people, work to make the world a better place, learn from mistakes and have the moral fiber to say I'm sorry. Mr. Giuliani, who once appealed a judge's decision that stopped his then-girlfriend from sleeping at Gracie Mansion when his wife and children were there, obviously believes bluster is easier to swallow than the truth.
8
The only thing that makes America is "exceptional" is its exceptional arrogance in assuming it is exceptional.
17
I wonder if that's how Europeans felt after the US liberated them from Nazi Germany? I also wonder that instead of killing Nazis if the US should have instead looked at it from the Nazi's point of view. That of the Nazi's being the victims of so-called American exceptionalism and therefore somehow the US would shoulder the blame for Naziism. Maybe the US in the forties should have waged a deep and massive twitter campaign to topple Hitler.
That surely would have worked!!!
That surely would have worked!!!
1
Was the US the only country fighting Germany in WW2?
6
Mayor Giuliani made an error. He spoke the truth. Obama clearly thinks our nation is a racist, colonial, evil empire. He thinks are police are stupid, or brutal racists, he's not to fond of the military he is gutting, and he only gets a 15% approval rating from those fighting to keep us free. Anybody that doesn't agree with Obama and his extreme left wing agenda have been called racists, and a person on NBC/MSNBC Obama's propaganda network called Giuliani's remarks racist, even though it had to do with what Obama says and does, and not with his skin color. It was Obama that called Bush unpatriotic for running up DEBT, and yet Obama has more than doubled Bush's DEBT in far less time. I never questioned that Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton loved our nation, but I think Obama hates America, and so do tens of millions of Americans who have watched him over the last 7 years.
2
If you consider Obama extreme left wing, who do you consider moderate left wing? Names, please.
6
How could you say he's not fond of the military == when he increases the military budget and engages the military all around the world. It is really stupid to say Obama, the President, "hates" America. It's just plain stupid.
5
I got a shiny nickle right here says that if I spend two minutes checking, every talking point and most of the language in your post comes right off Rush's show from yesterday.
For tomorrow, may one suggest that you turn th e radio off and go read a little Paine and Thoreau?
For tomorrow, may one suggest that you turn th e radio off and go read a little Paine and Thoreau?
5
Mr. Guilaini's "horrible" comments about President Obama's love for America and Americans should have been immediately and categorically disavowed and condemned by Governor Walker and every leader of the Republican party. Aside the insulting presumption Mr. Guilaini could speak credibly or definitively on what is in the recesses of another human being's soul, is the far more sinister, intentional and unsubstantiated defaming of the President of The United States.
President Obama has perennially been the target of a professional hate industry which arose almost immediately after his election. First, was the so called "birther" accusations which impuned President Obama's right to assume office based on completely false allegations of his citizenship. These defamatory allegations were refuted by the Republican Governer of Hawaii. Yet, so called Patriots and conservative Republicans continued an incessant whisper campaign about President Obama's citizenship and his qualifications for office.
Now another Republican propagandist, Mr. Guilaini, in a public Republican political event launches an even more henious and unsubstantiated attack, not against President Obama's public policies or honourable discharge of his office, but against his intimate personal feelings of which no one, save President Obama and God knows.
Mr. Guilaini's backtracking on Sunday talk shows were woefully inadequate of an unqualified apology due to the President for making such statements.
President Obama has perennially been the target of a professional hate industry which arose almost immediately after his election. First, was the so called "birther" accusations which impuned President Obama's right to assume office based on completely false allegations of his citizenship. These defamatory allegations were refuted by the Republican Governer of Hawaii. Yet, so called Patriots and conservative Republicans continued an incessant whisper campaign about President Obama's citizenship and his qualifications for office.
Now another Republican propagandist, Mr. Guilaini, in a public Republican political event launches an even more henious and unsubstantiated attack, not against President Obama's public policies or honourable discharge of his office, but against his intimate personal feelings of which no one, save President Obama and God knows.
Mr. Guilaini's backtracking on Sunday talk shows were woefully inadequate of an unqualified apology due to the President for making such statements.
81
You don't need a mind reader to know Obama does not love America, just his own words. He stated he wants to "fundamentally transform America". Nobody wants to fundamentally transform something/one they love. I would recommend you attempt to tell your wife you want to fundamentally transform her, but that you love her, and report back with the results.
7
First of all, Rudy G has every right to say whatever he wants about Obama. Obama, and the left, have said about every harsh thing you could about Bush 43 -- have questioned his ability, his decisions, his courage, etc. I haven't heard anyone at the Times complain about harsh commentary directed at Bush or other Repubs.
Second, I can't speak for Rudy, but perhaps the real issue he is attempting to identify is -- Does Obama always put America first?
I think it fair to say that in many instances Obama takes a more global view of things. Some readers of this paper may prefer a globalists approach, a view that America isn't exceptional, a view that we need to fit in with everyone else.
I, however, prefer a president who always puts America first, one who won't hand Iran the bomb, one who calls Islamic terrorists Islamic terrorists, one who doesn't reprise Neville Chamberlain while Putin reestablishes the USSR, one who holds on to the hard won victory in Iraq, one who refuses to apologize for what he perceives our America's faults, one who won't compare the current behavior of ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups to the Crusades, one who protects our borders and stands up for Israel.
And I also want a president who leads, who builds bridges and forms alliances with all citizens, not just progressives. And I want a president who believes his first duty is to preserve and protect America, not transform it.
Maybe that's what Rudy meant.
Second, I can't speak for Rudy, but perhaps the real issue he is attempting to identify is -- Does Obama always put America first?
I think it fair to say that in many instances Obama takes a more global view of things. Some readers of this paper may prefer a globalists approach, a view that America isn't exceptional, a view that we need to fit in with everyone else.
I, however, prefer a president who always puts America first, one who won't hand Iran the bomb, one who calls Islamic terrorists Islamic terrorists, one who doesn't reprise Neville Chamberlain while Putin reestablishes the USSR, one who holds on to the hard won victory in Iraq, one who refuses to apologize for what he perceives our America's faults, one who won't compare the current behavior of ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups to the Crusades, one who protects our borders and stands up for Israel.
And I also want a president who leads, who builds bridges and forms alliances with all citizens, not just progressives. And I want a president who believes his first duty is to preserve and protect America, not transform it.
Maybe that's what Rudy meant.
23
Do you know of a nice way to talk about the fact that someone killed and maimed thousands of people and ruined the economy?
4
"And I want a president who believes his first duty is to preserve and protect America, not transform it."
Oh, grow up.
Why does transforming into a BETTER, more inclusive version of ourselves scare you? You folks aren't scared of transformation. You're scared you'll have to share your toys.
Oh, grow up.
Why does transforming into a BETTER, more inclusive version of ourselves scare you? You folks aren't scared of transformation. You're scared you'll have to share your toys.
8
What hard-won victory in Iraq? The Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld invasion of Iraq was a catastrophic failure.
11
Mr. Giuliani sought multiple deferments to avoid service in Vietnam, just as his father and five of his uncles avoided service in World War II. Mr. Giuliani has cheated on at least two of his wives and took multiple romantic getaways at taxpayer expense. He is a coward and his moral compass is non-existent. It baffles me that his opinion means anything to anyone anywhere.
Remember that poem? "The worst are full of passionate intensity; the best lack all conviction." They should update that for Mr. Giuliani. "The bad are full of passionate intensity, the worst don't even have the guts to back it up."
Oh, and American exceptionalism? Give us a break. If anything, de Tocqueville meant that America was exceptional for not having a civil power structure that had been ingrained for thousands of years, allowing for more egalitarian policymaking. And yet, you have people like Mr. Giuliani using that very phrase to justify the ossification of American power structures. The human idiocy of the American oligarchy is truly astounding.
Remember that poem? "The worst are full of passionate intensity; the best lack all conviction." They should update that for Mr. Giuliani. "The bad are full of passionate intensity, the worst don't even have the guts to back it up."
Oh, and American exceptionalism? Give us a break. If anything, de Tocqueville meant that America was exceptional for not having a civil power structure that had been ingrained for thousands of years, allowing for more egalitarian policymaking. And yet, you have people like Mr. Giuliani using that very phrase to justify the ossification of American power structures. The human idiocy of the American oligarchy is truly astounding.
34
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
-- William Butler Yeats, "The Second Coming"
Are full of passionate intensity."
-- William Butler Yeats, "The Second Coming"
1
I'm a Brit and I love America. I've worked there on and off for 40 years and one of my children spends more time working in the States than in the UK. But, and here's the thing, I am frequently shocked at the way American politicians and Corporate Interests make decisions for the rest of the World, particularly Europe and NATO, that they are patently obviously incompetent to make. I know US interests had something to do with the right wing parties in Ukraine and that didn't work out so well, I know it's your Corporate Oil Interests who have introduced bribes and corruption into Iraqi Kurdistan's oil business on a hithertoo unknown scale, you think you don't need to consult your NATO partners because you spend more on weapons so you decide if you wish to threaten Russia or let Turkey get away with murder and I could go on for 100 pages. America is a great idea and a great nation at its best but thinking you are without fault is becoming a big problem. This is Republican thinking but you have elected the Democrats into office. What is going on and can it be stopped ? And I still love America.
11
if I were writing from London, I'd at least notice the hilarity of these complaints about another country.
“the view that the U.S. is exceptional — standing above all other countries in the world — has declined 10 points since 2011.”
That's a poll of Americans, and it's hardly shocking that in the nadir of a recession and recovery that raises only the big ships and leaves the little ones stranded and swamped you would see dramatic declines. What's interesting is what those numbers would look like for an external poll across the other nations of the world. THAT would be a telling statistic.
Pres Obama is clearly looking at us objectively and saying we've got some problems to fix. Which we absolutely do. BTW so does Giuliani.
That's a poll of Americans, and it's hardly shocking that in the nadir of a recession and recovery that raises only the big ships and leaves the little ones stranded and swamped you would see dramatic declines. What's interesting is what those numbers would look like for an external poll across the other nations of the world. THAT would be a telling statistic.
Pres Obama is clearly looking at us objectively and saying we've got some problems to fix. Which we absolutely do. BTW so does Giuliani.
6
Giuliani is either losing his powers of reason, or has become so craven and cynical that he thinks lies are justified. It's a lot like what happened to Dick Cheney, and it's too bad; think what these two men could accomplish if they remembered what it's like to work for something constructive.
History will write them off.
History will write them off.
9
There are exceptional people all around the world. Starting from feeling exceptional and special is not a recipe for acknowledging wrongs or for problem solving. Exceptionality is one of those "my eyes glaze over words" that a certain group of politicians rely on to cover their intellectual and empathetic shallowness. The Academy Awards did a better job than our politicians last evening by courageously speaking thoughtfully on immigration, race, women's rights, LBGT, health - much more impressive than our elected leaders.
4
As mayor, Guiliani's image among NYC's white voting bloc grew greatly as the law and order candidate became reality. His name was evoked by whites with pride. It was "Giuliani Time". This mantra eventually took on ominous tones, especially if you were not white.
September 11, 2001 gave Guiliani a national stage, his stature rising above that of our hapless and elusive president. Rudy became "America's Mayor". His massive ego thought New York could not survive without him. He tried to hold onto power despite term limits. He then envisioned the presidency. As one presidential opponent put it, "Rudy can't begin and end a sentence without putting 9/11 in it."
What the nation, but not New Yorkers, overlooked was Guiliani's obsession to reduce crime coupled with his flagrant disregard of civil rights violations. Giuliani's tenure devolved into a reign of terror for people of color. Cops were always right. Victims rights were violated, their imperfect backgrounds exposed, their images slandered, libeled. Guiliani attempted to prejudice the case against bringing law enforcement officers to trial and justice.
It was Guiliani Time all right.
As a native New Yorker, those events and images are still lucidly in my mind. I found what Guiliani said about my, our, President, Barack Obama, to be both atrocious, yet typical, coming from this sad sack uncouthed human being.
Politics is brutal, I understand. But Guiliani has lowered the bar even further.
D.D.
Manhattan
September 11, 2001 gave Guiliani a national stage, his stature rising above that of our hapless and elusive president. Rudy became "America's Mayor". His massive ego thought New York could not survive without him. He tried to hold onto power despite term limits. He then envisioned the presidency. As one presidential opponent put it, "Rudy can't begin and end a sentence without putting 9/11 in it."
What the nation, but not New Yorkers, overlooked was Guiliani's obsession to reduce crime coupled with his flagrant disregard of civil rights violations. Giuliani's tenure devolved into a reign of terror for people of color. Cops were always right. Victims rights were violated, their imperfect backgrounds exposed, their images slandered, libeled. Guiliani attempted to prejudice the case against bringing law enforcement officers to trial and justice.
It was Guiliani Time all right.
As a native New Yorker, those events and images are still lucidly in my mind. I found what Guiliani said about my, our, President, Barack Obama, to be both atrocious, yet typical, coming from this sad sack uncouthed human being.
Politics is brutal, I understand. But Guiliani has lowered the bar even further.
D.D.
Manhattan
18
I'm often blown away by Mr. Blow's eloquence, and this column is one of those rare moments when the printed word engaged and moved me. Given the task that President Obama has been presented, I don't think the voters could have made a better choice. I have been in awe of his patience and restraint in the face of constant unwarranted, outrageous racist and partisan attacks. If our President seems sometimes less than overwhelmed with the "exceptionalism" of America the Beautiful...but benighted, I can sympathize.
10
Those who have to constantly remind themselves that their country is "exceptional" are likely the most insecure about that fact. And those who can acknowledge no flaws in their country are the least likely to improve it.
12
Mr. Blow: your fundamental assertion, which i quote here:
Conservatism is rooted in preservation; progressivism advances alteration. These are different love languages. These languages turn on your view of change itself: When you think of America, do you see a country struggling to be maintained or one striving to be made better?
is itself a function of your political persuasion. "America" does not strive to be better. This is the false idea of the progressive. America is a country already made exceptional in its commitment to liberty. It is people, living free lives, who make America exceptional. Not some new restriction on our freedoms and possessions dictated by brilliant Washington types like Mr. Obama and his pal Gruber, who appear to have nothing but contempt for the free choices of Americans. This is why it is a perfectly reasonable assertion to say that Obama does not love America. For a free person, America is perfect when it affords freedom to create a life, with guarantees of personal liberty and protection from intrusion of the state. For a "progressive," America is only as good as the convoluted architecture of rules, restrictions, taxes, incentives, and other means for controlling behavior. Anyone who thinks that creates a better world not only does not love America, he also thinks little of Americans.
Conservatism is rooted in preservation; progressivism advances alteration. These are different love languages. These languages turn on your view of change itself: When you think of America, do you see a country struggling to be maintained or one striving to be made better?
is itself a function of your political persuasion. "America" does not strive to be better. This is the false idea of the progressive. America is a country already made exceptional in its commitment to liberty. It is people, living free lives, who make America exceptional. Not some new restriction on our freedoms and possessions dictated by brilliant Washington types like Mr. Obama and his pal Gruber, who appear to have nothing but contempt for the free choices of Americans. This is why it is a perfectly reasonable assertion to say that Obama does not love America. For a free person, America is perfect when it affords freedom to create a life, with guarantees of personal liberty and protection from intrusion of the state. For a "progressive," America is only as good as the convoluted architecture of rules, restrictions, taxes, incentives, and other means for controlling behavior. Anyone who thinks that creates a better world not only does not love America, he also thinks little of Americans.
7
I will tell you who I think little of: people who don't know jack about the country they claim to love, and who cheerfully bray about who they think is and isn't good enough to be an American.
Charles Blow wrote something perfectly reasonable--even a bit conservative--about the reality that this country has always had its "conservative," and "progressive," drives, along with its individualist and governmental streaks and a dozen others.
Not to know this is not to know American history. And apparently, it's to base an ugly vision of America--as a country where everybody gets tested for ideological purity, by a few Right Thinking folks.
Man, I thoight calling people RINOs was bad enough. Now, I guess, it's AINOs.
Shame on you for attacking America.
Charles Blow wrote something perfectly reasonable--even a bit conservative--about the reality that this country has always had its "conservative," and "progressive," drives, along with its individualist and governmental streaks and a dozen others.
Not to know this is not to know American history. And apparently, it's to base an ugly vision of America--as a country where everybody gets tested for ideological purity, by a few Right Thinking folks.
Man, I thoight calling people RINOs was bad enough. Now, I guess, it's AINOs.
Shame on you for attacking America.
16
What liberty are you talking about? Have you ever learnt that liberty has limits to protect... liberty? Maybe one day America will grow up and see that it is one of the most unfair country in the developed world. And simply because of the tyranny of its quest for liberty at all cost.
7
Progressives want to ensure that EVERYONE has liberty -- including gays, minorities, the poor, the elderly, the disabled.
11
Why after so many hours was my comment deleted?
5
The United States of America, on the most basic level, will always be a living "idea," as Mr. Blow puts it. If this is a revelation to anyone, our leaders in all areas and disciplines really ought to take a refresher course on the the founders, the founding and the founding documents of the country. Change is inevitable in nations just as it is in nature. Mr. Blow understands much more than most about the abstract ideas that inform the country and its history, but the struggle to live up to ideals is hardly an American problem alone. It's a problem that all nations face. Our willingness to engage in a real discussion of ideas--rather than flailing about in an acid bath of name calling and patriotism-baiting--will lead to a more stable, more inclusive future. And may save the environment to boot.
6
I was once talking to a conservative acquaintance of mine and he said something about obama apologizing for the US. He said "I love America and I would never apologize for it." Even if it's in the wrong? I asked. "A good patriot never apologizes for his country, even when it is rarely wrong."
I found that interesting coming from someone who preached responsibility for self. I guess it really is my country, right or wrong.
I found that interesting coming from someone who preached responsibility for self. I guess it really is my country, right or wrong.
10
I guess Reagan and at least one Bush weren't good Americans, then.
2
Many people understand that real love is a changing emotion, always present but always changing and millions of Americans were not brought up like Mr. Giuliani but were loved by the people who raised us and they taught to love our country. The other Americans, as Mr. Giuliani has described us, have served our country, voted, paid taxes and volunteered to help others without despairing Americans or elected officials’ patriotism. Our actions might be considered love of our country and being different but still patriotic. With such a lack of insight, Mr. Giuliani should have stopped at “…and I know this is a horrible thing to say” and stopped attacking millions of us other Americans.
6
Who loves America?
We could only tell who doesn’t love America at all – the global corporations.
The fundamental strategic mistake the American governments have made is that they wrongly misconstrued the interests of the global corporations for the US national interests.
Of course, the global corporations love what is bad for the people across the globe – freedom, democracy and human rights because all of those do minimize the local influence of the global corporations and consequentially their profits.
When Washington D.C. deploys our military to defend the economic interests of the global corporations, it inevitably sets our troops on the confrontational course with the locals.
It already happened in the Indochina, Latin America, and the Middle East...
That’s why the global corporations are extremely profitable and why America is saddled with the enormous national debt and colossal trade deficits...
We could only tell who doesn’t love America at all – the global corporations.
The fundamental strategic mistake the American governments have made is that they wrongly misconstrued the interests of the global corporations for the US national interests.
Of course, the global corporations love what is bad for the people across the globe – freedom, democracy and human rights because all of those do minimize the local influence of the global corporations and consequentially their profits.
When Washington D.C. deploys our military to defend the economic interests of the global corporations, it inevitably sets our troops on the confrontational course with the locals.
It already happened in the Indochina, Latin America, and the Middle East...
That’s why the global corporations are extremely profitable and why America is saddled with the enormous national debt and colossal trade deficits...
6
As James Baldwin put it, “I love America more than any other country in the world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.” This is more than Obama has said.
1
I'd direct you to The Times' extended article of yesterday--the one with the innumberable quotes from the speeches and comments--since this is ridiculously wrong.
4
Superbly written! This is an excellent opportunity to make Giuliani's lunatic (and mildly racist) statement into a teachable moment.
7
"At that time last year, 58 percent of Americans believed America is “one of the greatest countries in the world, along with others,” while only 28 percent believed America “stands above all other countries in the world.”
Great! "Exceptional" nations are the most dangerous ones, especially if they are armed to the teeth. Just remember German exceptionalism and the Soviet exceptionalism. It is racist and militaristic ubermensch poison, and it is high time Americans shame-facedly brushed it aside.
Great! "Exceptional" nations are the most dangerous ones, especially if they are armed to the teeth. Just remember German exceptionalism and the Soviet exceptionalism. It is racist and militaristic ubermensch poison, and it is high time Americans shame-facedly brushed it aside.
14
There are few, if any, places where someone with my strengths and weaknesses would have led a better life. I get barely passing grades in love, family, wealth, and friendship. But I feel like I'm off the charts in understanding how the world works. The government hasn't much intruded, my economic standing is ok, and America's interest in what's going on pretty much everywhere, along with my travels, gives me a pretty wide perspective. I have a bent for the counter-intuitive that counters bias. I listen pretty good, though I talk too much. I feel like my nature and my choices got me to this ignoble place. For leaving me alone, I love my country.
1
Let use Rudy's phrase in my own context a little bit. First of all, I don't believe Republicans love America. The Republicans don't love you. And Republicans don't love me. Republicans weren't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country. In fact when you look at everything they have said and done they actually hate America and are doing everything they can to destroy America.
13
We will see who loves their country on April 15th. Is it those 1percenters who fly off to visit their money in some off shore account? Is it those who fly off to check on their overseas business for which they get some tax break? Or is those other Americans who are bearing the brunt of the taxes and sending their children to defend their country in wars that make those 1percent patriots rich?
6
Thanks Mr. Blow, for more sanity in an insane world.
10
I will start with the fact that both sides can agree to that Mayor Giuliani is not the most subtle and diplomatic politician out there. And he had little interest about further defining his comments about President Obama's affections for this country. Bill Clinton once famously evaded a grand jury deposition question with the statement, "it depended on what the definition of is is." In this situation it depends on what your definition of love is. But when his 20 year Pastor said God had damned our country for our actions through history, and his wife in 2008 said, as her husband appeared poised to win the presidency, that she was, "proud of her country for the first time in her adult life", and as the president himself the week before his election said, "we are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America", is it really a stretch to question whether the President loves America for what it is and what it has meant to the world over the last 200+ years? Or whether he only loves it for what HE can make it. And that is a distinct difference. Giuliani said he didn't "believe" the President loved America. If someone is telling you they have never been proud of you and want to fundamentally transform you, would you believe they loved you. Of course not. But instead of harping on Giuliani, how about journalists, including at the NYT, ask the president to clarify what he loves about America and why it needs "fundamental change".
3
Yes, it's really a stretch. Not as bad as the demand that the President and everybody elsegets hauled into "I Love America," Court so you and your buddies can get loyalty oaths, but really. Stretch.
4
Methinks its much easier to LOVE this country for the past 200+ years if you were one of the majority. Not so much perhaps for enslaved people or people being told to get out of a country that once belonged to them or those huddled on some desolate, desperate rez.
No matter how flat the pancake, there are always two sides.
Like Baldwin, I reserve the right to criticize it all the day long and appreciate the fact that I live in a country where I can do that.
I'm one of those people who will do the right thing, but still reserve the right to complain bitterly whilst doing so.
No matter how flat the pancake, there are always two sides.
Like Baldwin, I reserve the right to criticize it all the day long and appreciate the fact that I live in a country where I can do that.
I'm one of those people who will do the right thing, but still reserve the right to complain bitterly whilst doing so.
Charles, you are "spot on"from my perspective. I do have one continuing request of us all. We are the United States of America. Are we Americans? Yes. However, we - the citizens of this country - are not ALL of the Americans. I think it is arrogant of us to claim the title "American" as if it were exclusively ours.
1
I so appreciate Charles Blow's commentaries, and especially his thoughtful response to the former Mayor of New York's ugly statements at a dinner for Scott Walker. Blow's prose is more often than not true and beautiful. I love our President. He is the man for our times. His childhood experience in Indonesia, the love and discipline of his mother and grandparents, and his teachers' nurturing of his intelligence and curiousity have brought inestimable gifts to the office of the presidency. President Obama's worldview is not consonant with Guiliani's narrow and incomplete understanding of global issues or the honesty, intelligence and strengths President Obama brings to the office of President.
12
I call myself a Republican, but distance myself from my lifelong friends who cling to this flag waving-"America is superior" attitude. A few years ago there was a survey done with participants around the world. The question was which country poses the biggest threat to world peace?. You got it-the U.S. I love this country for the very fact that we let a self-made President criticize us all-exposing the faults of our government and religion. He is the MLK of today-I am white-this President has brought much needed change, rocking the boat of the faux flag waving hypocrites who cannot recite the first sentence of the Constitution or identify the Bill Of Rights. They just want to inherit dad's money and enjoy the status quo. It works for them
13
This made my day. I wish there were more people like you, if there were the Republican party might actually stand a chance of being relevant.
3
The last act of a desperate politician is to wrap themselves in the flag.
12
It is not too many years ago that Italian Americans faced discrimination in this country. Guliani is not alone. Think of all the situations in the world where the previous downtrodden eventually treat others unnfairly.
7
So if Giulani is irrelevant, why such the fuss? Fear?
Nahh, never!!!
Nahh, never!!!
3
As you said, this is the same tired old stuff. Birthers, "secret Muslim," etc. Thinly veiled racism. An attempt appeal to the basest elements of the GOP / Tea Party "base."
8
Who loves America? The only word there that doesn't need defining is "who." It's common around the world for power blocs to define their nationality and to exclude some from their definitions. Jews were rarely accepted as real [X] (fill in the blank). This is also true of many newcomers to GB. (Note the disgraceful behavior of a few Chelsea fans in Paris recently). "The French" are still struggling with the problem of identity. Northern Ireland Protestants define themselves as Loyalists and did so even before that little patch became a country. Many nationalists in the Irish Republic still use "West Brit" as an insult for those who disagree with them in politics.
Most newcomers to America come with an image based perhaps on myths. The reality can be a shock. The depth of ignorance; the deliberate misinforming of millions; the naïve march to war; the cant of "Christian" politicians; the denial of basic science... No wonder so many turn their backs on the political system... and maybe that's one aim of the power hogs.
Most newcomers to America come with an image based perhaps on myths. The reality can be a shock. The depth of ignorance; the deliberate misinforming of millions; the naïve march to war; the cant of "Christian" politicians; the denial of basic science... No wonder so many turn their backs on the political system... and maybe that's one aim of the power hogs.
5
A good Monday morning wake-up yell. Rudy the clown!
1
I fought for America and would do so again. Not because it is perfect, or even because it is the best, for neither is true. But it is my country and the one I am most comfortable with.
American exceptionalism is a cancer on our thinking process. It stops all debate and substitutes 'political correctness' for honest evaluation. With this mistaken belief in place we stop all advancement or improvement from taking place.
American exceptionalism is most often defined as a belief that our 'peaceful capitalism' is superior to all other forms of government. Yet the bloviators on Fox News have no interest in the 'peaceful' half of this formula and significantly confused about the nature or meaning of capitalism.
As I say, I would fight for my country again should it become necessary. It appears that those who believe in American exceptionalism may well be the enemy I will have to fight, but so be it. The America I love is not perfect, nor even better then other places, it is just mine and I love it.
American exceptionalism is a cancer on our thinking process. It stops all debate and substitutes 'political correctness' for honest evaluation. With this mistaken belief in place we stop all advancement or improvement from taking place.
American exceptionalism is most often defined as a belief that our 'peaceful capitalism' is superior to all other forms of government. Yet the bloviators on Fox News have no interest in the 'peaceful' half of this formula and significantly confused about the nature or meaning of capitalism.
As I say, I would fight for my country again should it become necessary. It appears that those who believe in American exceptionalism may well be the enemy I will have to fight, but so be it. The America I love is not perfect, nor even better then other places, it is just mine and I love it.
16
Thank you very much for your service and for speaking up. Your post touched me very deeply.
2
Giuliani takes the lead.
It takes a high degree of rhetorical skill to get the right blend of the unfounded, the outrageous and the obnoxious into an attention grabbing statement. For the present Rudy has risen above the pack, but he'll have to keep producing to stay there.
It takes a high degree of rhetorical skill to get the right blend of the unfounded, the outrageous and the obnoxious into an attention grabbing statement. For the present Rudy has risen above the pack, but he'll have to keep producing to stay there.
3
One question: Would you choose to live anywhere else? (Actually, Mr. Blow, I am NOT at all sure I know what YOU would say; but I am positive that for the Obamas, Holders, and Sharptons, no other place on earth would afford them the privilege and lifestyle they have here.) And if the answer is Yes: please y'all, be my guest--if said countries would even be as hospitable as the US to allow you in.
3
I guarantee you there are tons of other countries in this planet where you would have more opportunities in every aspect of your life. Don't be fooled, the U.S. is not more hospitable than other countries, they just need cheap labor.
5
I vividly recall the Vietnam era right wing bumper-sticker response to our anti-war protests: "America: Love it or Leave it!"
Such a simple, easy way to deligitimize the dissent.
Another popular bumper sticker during the post-9/11 run-up to the Iraq War: "These colors don't run!"
So only cowards question the WMD basis for the war?
And now we have "He doesn't love America.. he wasn't raised like us..."
So noting imperfections in the effort to improve is discredited as refusing to believe in exceptionalism.
All adding up to "If you dare dissent you are traitorous cowards."
Such a simple, easy way to deligitimize the dissent.
Another popular bumper sticker during the post-9/11 run-up to the Iraq War: "These colors don't run!"
So only cowards question the WMD basis for the war?
And now we have "He doesn't love America.. he wasn't raised like us..."
So noting imperfections in the effort to improve is discredited as refusing to believe in exceptionalism.
All adding up to "If you dare dissent you are traitorous cowards."
8
This story is silly. The former mayor was playing to the peanut gallery. The result was that he received the headlines he needs like an addict needs dope.
More disturbing is Mr. Blow’s split-the-baby approach to the myth of American exceptionalism. He is saying, it would seem, that while America is exceptional, criticizing America is a fine thing.
American is the latest in a series of hegemonic powers. American struggles over slavery and civil rights are simply the American version of a global struggle over the definition of citizenship engendered by the rise of the liberal state. The question of to whom citizenship is conferred, with its corollary questions around ranks of citizenship and the process of social sorting that follows from the peopling of that hierarchy form the principal thrust of development of the liberal nation state. This process in America may play out on a world stage because of America’s hegemonic position, but the process is in no way unique.
More disturbing is Mr. Blow’s split-the-baby approach to the myth of American exceptionalism. He is saying, it would seem, that while America is exceptional, criticizing America is a fine thing.
American is the latest in a series of hegemonic powers. American struggles over slavery and civil rights are simply the American version of a global struggle over the definition of citizenship engendered by the rise of the liberal state. The question of to whom citizenship is conferred, with its corollary questions around ranks of citizenship and the process of social sorting that follows from the peopling of that hierarchy form the principal thrust of development of the liberal nation state. This process in America may play out on a world stage because of America’s hegemonic position, but the process is in no way unique.
1
You DO know that these claims arecompletely contrary to the letter and the spirit of the people who wrote the Declaration and the Constitution, yes?
1
"Honest critique is a pillar of patriotism"
Agreed. The problem with this President is that his critiques are not honest. I can get on board with a president who criticizes our education system compared with Europe's. But I cannot agree with a president who fails to recognize American superiority where it does exist. A president who, for example, takes two instances of questionable (let's even say racist) police tactics as a reason for rhetorically indicting police officers all over this country. A president who, judged by his words and actions, believes that the vast majority of arabs in the Middle East respect the humanistic values that we Americans hold dear. A president who, time after time, appeases the undeveloped/non-democratic world (see Russia, Palestinians, Iran, Islamic State, etc.) at the expense of our natural, democratic allies, only to get burned time and time again.
By American Exceptionalism, Giuliani doesn't mean "American Exceptionalism in Every Way." He means that America (and Americans) are generally a force for good in a world full of oppressors, murderers, liars and cheaters, and those who are too weighed down by history to stand up to them (i.e., Europe). We are indeed exceptional in this regard. We are rightfully the world's policeman. Obama doesn't get that. And that's why Giuliani is 100% correct.
Agreed. The problem with this President is that his critiques are not honest. I can get on board with a president who criticizes our education system compared with Europe's. But I cannot agree with a president who fails to recognize American superiority where it does exist. A president who, for example, takes two instances of questionable (let's even say racist) police tactics as a reason for rhetorically indicting police officers all over this country. A president who, judged by his words and actions, believes that the vast majority of arabs in the Middle East respect the humanistic values that we Americans hold dear. A president who, time after time, appeases the undeveloped/non-democratic world (see Russia, Palestinians, Iran, Islamic State, etc.) at the expense of our natural, democratic allies, only to get burned time and time again.
By American Exceptionalism, Giuliani doesn't mean "American Exceptionalism in Every Way." He means that America (and Americans) are generally a force for good in a world full of oppressors, murderers, liars and cheaters, and those who are too weighed down by history to stand up to them (i.e., Europe). We are indeed exceptional in this regard. We are rightfully the world's policeman. Obama doesn't get that. And that's why Giuliani is 100% correct.
3
Because there have never been any "oppressors, murderers, liars and cheaters, and those who are too weighed down by history to stand up to them" in America? What are you doing with slavery? I believe official discrimination against black people survived way until the late 60s, no? Don't point at other countries and try to make the U.S. a better place, just like what all other country in the world is doing without calling itself "exceptional".
1
Given the very strange version of what the President (which is how REAL Americans refer to their President, back where I come from) actually said, it would appear that basic reading comprehension is not of the list of approved Decent American Skills.
Oh, and it'd be nice if more of the "we are the World Police," types volunteered to go get their hands dirty, and howled less about paying their taxes to support this pax Americana business.
Oh, and it'd be nice if more of the "we are the World Police," types volunteered to go get their hands dirty, and howled less about paying their taxes to support this pax Americana business.
5
As long as there will be people in this country thinking that the U.S. "stands above all other countries", I will have no choise but to hate that country. America is a country like any others, very different from others that is for sure, but not better nor worse.
2
Blow: "When you think of America, do you see a country struggling to be maintained or one striving to be made better?...Our allegiance needn’t — mustn’t — be blind to be true."
Superb question, and an excellent op-ed piece, Mr. Blow. Thanks.
Blow gets it right about love and criticism. Some folks obviously look upon our beloved country as if it was museum piece that requires nothing more than preservation. But the life of the individual citizen and our country is dynamic and capable of flourishing, marked by change that can be characterized as either development or decline.
However, should the question be framed in "either/or" terms or "both/and," both the struggle to "maintain" and "made better"? My preference is the "both/and" approach.
Superb question, and an excellent op-ed piece, Mr. Blow. Thanks.
Blow gets it right about love and criticism. Some folks obviously look upon our beloved country as if it was museum piece that requires nothing more than preservation. But the life of the individual citizen and our country is dynamic and capable of flourishing, marked by change that can be characterized as either development or decline.
However, should the question be framed in "either/or" terms or "both/and," both the struggle to "maintain" and "made better"? My preference is the "both/and" approach.
3
We are, indeed, exceptional. That we allow charlatans like Giuliani and Hannity and Jindal to pretend to be voices of reason is truly exceptional. I haven't seen anything so exceptional since Germany in the 30s.
I truly love the idea and ideal of America, but I haven't seen it with my own two eyes since the middle 60s. That is when I awoke to the reality of the Vietnam war, the fight for equal rights for African Americans, the turning of rhetoric from disagreement to disparagement to hatred. This is the America I have seen as an adult.
An America where to disagree with an administration that takes us into an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation is to be labeled a traitor while real traitors get trotted out on Sunday talk shows. To tell us that our President isn't a real American.
Exceptional, indeed.
Curiouser and curiouser
I truly love the idea and ideal of America, but I haven't seen it with my own two eyes since the middle 60s. That is when I awoke to the reality of the Vietnam war, the fight for equal rights for African Americans, the turning of rhetoric from disagreement to disparagement to hatred. This is the America I have seen as an adult.
An America where to disagree with an administration that takes us into an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation is to be labeled a traitor while real traitors get trotted out on Sunday talk shows. To tell us that our President isn't a real American.
Exceptional, indeed.
Curiouser and curiouser
11
I don't doubt that Mayor Giuliani loves America, we all do, but in our own way. Mayor Giuliani didn't love America enough to go and fight for her when he was drafted during the Vietnam war. His father, and uncles, didn't love America enough to fight for her during WWII. Mayor Giuliani doesn't love America enough to have his firm turn down money from Qatar, which harbors many violent anti-American radicals. Yet no one ever questions whether the Mayor loves America. He should return the favor, and stop smearing the President.
437
A horrid thing to say! Even more horrid is Giuliani had to make it knowing what he said.
Being President is hard. Doing all that a President should do is harder. Doing all those things just right seems impossible.
There is no exact apprenticeship for President. Having governed a large, diverse state whose governor has real executive power is the closest preparation a President could get. Even so, no President will escape making mistakes.
Obama became President with little legislative experience, no executive experience, no strong network of friends in Washington.
in 2008, Obama campaigned with only soaring visions of unity, but as we now understand no plan even in his head, how to fix problems. Once in office his style was to delegate tasks. fully to others. His reserve has received plenty of comment.
But it is reckless and irresponsible to conclude, from Obama's reserve and from his not unifying all Americans as hoped, that Obama does not love America.
Being President is hard. Doing all that a President should do is harder. Doing all those things just right seems impossible.
There is no exact apprenticeship for President. Having governed a large, diverse state whose governor has real executive power is the closest preparation a President could get. Even so, no President will escape making mistakes.
Obama became President with little legislative experience, no executive experience, no strong network of friends in Washington.
in 2008, Obama campaigned with only soaring visions of unity, but as we now understand no plan even in his head, how to fix problems. Once in office his style was to delegate tasks. fully to others. His reserve has received plenty of comment.
But it is reckless and irresponsible to conclude, from Obama's reserve and from his not unifying all Americans as hoped, that Obama does not love America.
1
Since "unifying America," seems always to come after a major calamity and involve something like getting together and shipping Japanese citizens who've never hurt their country to camps, I think I'll pass on unifying America, thanks.
By the way, anybpdy who knows a skosh about American history knows that the country's always been kind of, well, cranky.
By the way, anybpdy who knows a skosh about American history knows that the country's always been kind of, well, cranky.
2
Well done, Mr. Blow. The obviousness of your analysis of Mr. Obama's nuanced views of America and its need to fully realize its potential as a great nation clearly demonstrates the pathetic response of the GOP to our President. But this discussion ignores a critical issue, and one which increasingly frustrates this follower of our political process. With all the attacks on President Obama's policies, where are the GOP alternatives, particularly on foreign policy? What would they do differently? Bomb Iran? Send 500,000 troops to take back ISIL-held territory (and hold it)? I have heard no answers, and fault the press for failing to hold their feet to the fire and demand answers. Instead, the only questions of GOP leaders I heard on yesterday's news shows was whether they agreed with Rudy about whether Obama loves America or not. Hardly conducive to making rational decisions about candidates for office.
7
Mr. Blow like mr Obama is a master of strawman creating. It is hard to ignore Obama's golf playing moments after talking pseudo-empathically about a beheaded Christian American--- and his staff's tepid statement about beheaded Egyptian "Citizens" ---who were Christians. Mr. Blow is quicker than Obama in his defensiveness when his emperor's new clothes are criticized.
4
Personally, you know what I like about Paine, Jefferson, Adamas, Madison, Thoreau, Twain, Hughes, DosPassos, archy the cockroach, Baldwin, Sondheim, the authors of the PortHuron statement, King, Dylan, and all the others who wrote (and are still writing) this country into existence?
They never thought that cheap reprints of lazy cloches from right-wing talk show hosts who've never lifted a finger for their country was nearly good enough for America.
They never thought that cheap reprints of lazy cloches from right-wing talk show hosts who've never lifted a finger for their country was nearly good enough for America.
2
Tell me Mr. Blow if one loves something does one wish to fundamentally transform that thing?
4
You mean like abolishing slavery and giving women the right to vote? Both were fundamentally transformational and both improved the United States.
It's when you don't love something or someone that you're ambivalent about its current state and don't care whether it gets better or not.
It's when you don't love something or someone that you're ambivalent about its current state and don't care whether it gets better or not.
10
Pres. Obama does not believe in the core values that have made the US the successful county that it is: namely free markets and a strong regard for individual and property rights. Nor does he believe that the US, even despite its numerous transgressions in many areas, still leads the world in freedom and economic opportunity. I believe that this is what Mr. Giuliani, in his too crude way, was trying to say about Pres. Obama. And if Mr. Giuliani has upset some people, well then, that’s just too darn bad.
5
Please detail what the president has done to curtail free markets, individual rights, and property rights.
4
What's a dooley? I think you believe what you wrote, but wonder if you have ever traveled the U.S., paritculary the Southern states,? have you talked to individuals who were born poor and never got out? We may have many paths to success, but unless you have a road map...it's too tough for many to make the journey. And, unlike many other countries, we tend to kick those who fail..no helping hand here.
3
Our country has always had regulated markets in one form or another since the turn of the 20th century. Totally free markets result in devastating boom and depression cycles which cause more harm than good. Individual an property rights? Maybe your should contact the activist right wing Supreme Court and let them know that their decision to allow eminent domain to take the property of an individual in CT for a private and not a public use is unpatriotic. That's your Republican party at work. Do you really believe that the Republican party cares about individuals? Their actions say otherwise.
5
This episode is reminiscent of the Vietnam war days, when anyone who didn't support the war was villified as un-American. Wrapping yourself in an American flag doesn't make you a patriot.
7
Patriotism is the last refuge of a Giuliani.
8
What Giuliani said revealed a whole lot more about Giuliani that it did about the President. As usual.......
13
When this President starts working in America's interests instead of against them, I will believe he loves America. I voted for Obama. I'm highly disappointed in his abject failure to engage as a leader. I believe he loves the America he wants to change it into, but not the America that exists. Sad. Rudy simply said what many of us have been feeling for some time now.
4
I don't believe you voted for him. Nice try though.
2
Mr. Blow, I don't always agree with your columns, but this one is spot on. I don't want to live anywhere else, but you're right: America does and should require some critique.
Mr. Guiliani's comments are tiresome and petty. They also were puzzling, and I have to wonder if they weren't part of some "talking points" media plan that backfired horribly.
I will be using your essay for discussion with the seniors in my high school English classes. Thank you.
Mr. Guiliani's comments are tiresome and petty. They also were puzzling, and I have to wonder if they weren't part of some "talking points" media plan that backfired horribly.
I will be using your essay for discussion with the seniors in my high school English classes. Thank you.
6
Oh no, another teacher trying to indoctrinate students. Will you allow dissent among your students? Of course you will say yes, but we have all seen the tolerance of the left for differing views. Do you ever have them discuss conservative articles in a positive manner?
Mr Delusional - Enough with the right wing assertion that hate speech and lies are just a different point of view.
1
I love my country but don 't think it is exceptional. I don't like the exclusiveness of the word "exceptional". As a child 60 years ago, I did like the history books with pictures of people of different races saying that America was a "melting pot". I know now that the phrase "melting pot" was wrong and I know ( and continue to learn) about horrible wrongs done by or in my country. Still, I still see those faces from my childhood history book and I think of America's dream of democracy. I am horrified by our history of slavery and what we did to Native Americans. And I am saddened by Citizens United and the role of money in our politics and our environment and our income inequality and how we use immigrants from Mexico for labor without citizenship I do what I can to change things though and I still think of the dream .
6
Thanks, Mr. Blow, for this potent & beautifully written rebuttal to Rudy Giuliani & so many other conservatives' narrow notions of what loving America means.
2
The very idea of American Exceptionalism dates back to De Tocqueville's visit to America in the mid-19th Century. America may well have been exceptional back then, but it was still a country where slavery was still legal when he made the proposition.
Giuliani hasn't changed much since the days when he led a demonstration during his first, unsuccessful, run for mayor that was described as a "police riot." Race baiting is one of the oldest, most durable tools in his kit. Of course Rudy loves America. He gets rich from making speeches that proclaim just that, while he makes even more money from purporting to have security solutions to the constant state of fear fomented by the American Exceptionalists who almost bankrupted the country, and the world, in the last Administration, those who lied to send us into a war against Saddam Hussein, which had the unintended consequence of creating jihadists in Iraq where there had been none before, and led directly to the rise of ISIS.
Giuliani hasn't changed much since the days when he led a demonstration during his first, unsuccessful, run for mayor that was described as a "police riot." Race baiting is one of the oldest, most durable tools in his kit. Of course Rudy loves America. He gets rich from making speeches that proclaim just that, while he makes even more money from purporting to have security solutions to the constant state of fear fomented by the American Exceptionalists who almost bankrupted the country, and the world, in the last Administration, those who lied to send us into a war against Saddam Hussein, which had the unintended consequence of creating jihadists in Iraq where there had been none before, and led directly to the rise of ISIS.
8
The key to Mr. Giuliani's diatribe is found in his whiny complaint that Obama "doesn't love me", from which he concludes that Obama doesn't love America. Like many of the blinkered narcissists who inhabit today's so-called conservative movement, he blithely assumes that he and America are one entity, and that therefore any disagreement with his own personal preferences constitutes "hating America".
You are not the sum total of America, Mr. Giuliani, and agreeing with you on every political issue is not a prerequisite for loving America.
You are not the sum total of America, Mr. Giuliani, and agreeing with you on every political issue is not a prerequisite for loving America.
9
In an exceptional country, young people get out of college without facing a debt that will take years to pay off. In an exceptional country, people are assured that they will receive proper health care when they need it. In an exceptional country, government tries to bring some measure of stability to the lives of its citizens. In an exceptional country, the government operates in a quiet and efficient manner without making itself the subject of daily headline news.
11
To my fellow seniors: Wake-up and look at a calendar; it's not 1950 any more. Yeah, post WWII, America may well have been a beacon of light and scored major points as a democratic republic. But in the 21st? Nah, I don't think so ---plutocratic greedocracies don't shine too brightly. Some of us look at aging as an opportunity for a final growth spurt in clearheadedness and empathy; and the rest of us appear to need to fall backward because the challenge of truthful and critical analysis is just too hard to face, the seduction of the past just too comfortable. Grow UPward (not backward).
8
The Irony of many of the comments made here proclaiming that criticizing the country does not mean you hate America is almost funny. Well of course the commenters only mean it when someone says the things you like to hear because Giuliani is being critical of our leader in maybe a blunt and disrespectful manor but what he is saying clearly has some merit. It has stirred up some debate about what to expect from American leadership and this is a good thing. So everyone is fine with Charles Blow giving his opinion but not that of Guilianis. . I view his statement as thought provoking and not in any way inappropriate. Its ok to criticize the President because he is not a dictator. We elected him and people have the right to be critical. I appreciate hearing the perspective of those who have so much experience in life. Its just amazing the Irony of the left on an issue like this. Its one of BE Quiet unless you agree with me.
13
Hey, here's a question. Since he keft office, exactly what has Rudy Giuliani done to help his country?
No, travelling, staying in fancy hotels, and getting very well paid to bloviate doesn't count.
ANYTHING like George Bush and PEPFAR, Carter and Habitat for Humanity? Anything at all?
No, travelling, staying in fancy hotels, and getting very well paid to bloviate doesn't count.
ANYTHING like George Bush and PEPFAR, Carter and Habitat for Humanity? Anything at all?
1
"Its one of BE Quiet unless you agree with me. "
Are you not claiming the same for those disagreeing with Giuliani?
Are you not claiming the same for those disagreeing with Giuliani?
1
delgazi, you forgot to indicate what "merit" you found in Giuliani's remarks.
1
So Obama does not love America according to Guiliani. Thats a curious thought.
You might just hear that phrase in North Korea, where everyone is expected, no demanded, to jump to their feet and cheer for the Dear Leader and un questioned love of country is required if you want to live a long life.
Are we to assume that if Scott Walker is elected President, thats who Guiliani was cheering for in this instance, that we will have a version of the " House Unamerican Activities Committee" possible called the " The House Proof That You Love America Without Question Committee" with the same Witch Hunts with children excouraged to report their parents for not loving America enough? Workmates spying on and reporting on workmates, the blacklisting and ruining of careers in the entertainment industry for not loving America enough? Or would Guiliani like something akin to the Inquision, where people are spirited away in the middle of the night and questioned by a tribunal, in secret, with the accuser hidden behind a Judas Door, with a short step to the waterbaording chamber and rack where the absolute truth of how much you love America could be rung out of you?
The Guilianies, Dick Cheneyes, Paul Wolfowitzes, Donald Rumsfelds and Richard Pearles of the world are the people to be most feared because they have the utter ruthlessness to enact policies that would be more suited to North Korea and Nazi Germany. Even to state such a position on the President is paranoia in the extreme.
You might just hear that phrase in North Korea, where everyone is expected, no demanded, to jump to their feet and cheer for the Dear Leader and un questioned love of country is required if you want to live a long life.
Are we to assume that if Scott Walker is elected President, thats who Guiliani was cheering for in this instance, that we will have a version of the " House Unamerican Activities Committee" possible called the " The House Proof That You Love America Without Question Committee" with the same Witch Hunts with children excouraged to report their parents for not loving America enough? Workmates spying on and reporting on workmates, the blacklisting and ruining of careers in the entertainment industry for not loving America enough? Or would Guiliani like something akin to the Inquision, where people are spirited away in the middle of the night and questioned by a tribunal, in secret, with the accuser hidden behind a Judas Door, with a short step to the waterbaording chamber and rack where the absolute truth of how much you love America could be rung out of you?
The Guilianies, Dick Cheneyes, Paul Wolfowitzes, Donald Rumsfelds and Richard Pearles of the world are the people to be most feared because they have the utter ruthlessness to enact policies that would be more suited to North Korea and Nazi Germany. Even to state such a position on the President is paranoia in the extreme.
6
Hmmmmmmm I wonder what happened to the spelling in my comment. I knowam far from the best typest in the world but this is rediculous.i
Why does Obama insist that America adapt itself to his world view? Perhaps he needs to spend more time speaking to Americans between the east and west coasts. Less academic-centric discussion and more real world interaction with real people. He might find out that lots of citizens agree with Giluliani. It's more than difficult to identify with a president who complains about Americans who "cling to their guns and religion".
5
Newsflash, there are people of color in between the west and east coasts, there are gay people and working women between the east and west coasts. There are even people who read actual news living in the middle of the country.
If you read or watched any actual news you would realize that people all over the country voted for President Obama twice.
If you read or watched any actual news you would realize that people all over the country voted for President Obama twice.
1
We all "love" the America with which we are most comfortable and with which we identify. I don't happen to be gay, non-white, female, poor or uneducated; but I hope that I care about all my fellow Americans, even the ones that are quite different from me. That is true love of one's country. I'll leave it to others to decide if Giuliani meets that simple criterion. I just thank God I was not brought up the way he was apparently raised.
I do know he loves the rich in Mexico and Qatar who have lavishly paid him for his dubious services. And when I compare what I know about my father and the little I know about his father, I thank my lucky stars I was not raised like he was. And I feel bad for my fellow Americans who were.
For six toxic years our President has governed with dignity and class. The vile personal assaults directed at him have not been patriotic. The fact that almost no Republicans have come forth to criticize Giuliani speaks volumes about their character or lack thereof.
I do know he loves the rich in Mexico and Qatar who have lavishly paid him for his dubious services. And when I compare what I know about my father and the little I know about his father, I thank my lucky stars I was not raised like he was. And I feel bad for my fellow Americans who were.
For six toxic years our President has governed with dignity and class. The vile personal assaults directed at him have not been patriotic. The fact that almost no Republicans have come forth to criticize Giuliani speaks volumes about their character or lack thereof.
7
I don't love America. As for "America," I don't love any nation state. I feel an affinity for people of this nation, with its amazing diversity, but I can't say I care more for someone on one side of a river- the RIo Grande- or an imaginary line- the Canadian border- than the other side.
As for "love," the notion of loving one's country is essentially loving oneself through an identification with one's nation. It is essentially a narcissistic fantasy when it involves a denial of all faults, past and present. Do the Germans love their country less because they have acknowledged and accepted guilt for what the Nazis did, and the Japanese love their country more as they still deny the brutality that country inflicted on other Asians during World War II?
Let's leave the concept of love for people we have actual relationships with, for activities we "love" to do, etc., or even loving the environment one is in- the Hudson River I see out of my window, ice floating up river at the moment. Loving a political entity- essentially nationalism- is a dangerous misplacement of emotion, especially when it translates into we are good, they are bad.
As for "love," the notion of loving one's country is essentially loving oneself through an identification with one's nation. It is essentially a narcissistic fantasy when it involves a denial of all faults, past and present. Do the Germans love their country less because they have acknowledged and accepted guilt for what the Nazis did, and the Japanese love their country more as they still deny the brutality that country inflicted on other Asians during World War II?
Let's leave the concept of love for people we have actual relationships with, for activities we "love" to do, etc., or even loving the environment one is in- the Hudson River I see out of my window, ice floating up river at the moment. Loving a political entity- essentially nationalism- is a dangerous misplacement of emotion, especially when it translates into we are good, they are bad.
4
Rudy, you are saying crazy things.
Your 15 minutes are up.
Get off the stage.
Your 15 minutes are up.
Get off the stage.
9
The article below is an interesting rebuttal to Super Patriot Rudy Giuliani's comments about President Obama.
The six deferments Giuliani received, as well as the other shananagans he undertook, in order to avoid serving during the Vietnam war, strike me as completey at odds with someone so totally head over heels in love with America. Could it be that Rudy thinks of patriotism in the same way that Dick Cheney thinks of patriotism? Talk a big game when there is nothing to be sacrificed but let others doing the fighting and dyng when it comes to having actual skin in the game.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/wayne-barrett-rudy-giuliani-love-arti...
The six deferments Giuliani received, as well as the other shananagans he undertook, in order to avoid serving during the Vietnam war, strike me as completey at odds with someone so totally head over heels in love with America. Could it be that Rudy thinks of patriotism in the same way that Dick Cheney thinks of patriotism? Talk a big game when there is nothing to be sacrificed but let others doing the fighting and dyng when it comes to having actual skin in the game.
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/wayne-barrett-rudy-giuliani-love-arti...
9
More than anything America requires leadership. What that means is having a President whose brain, heart, and mouth--are all connected and work together. He should inspire confidence. When he talks he should look straight ahead and not look sideways as if he is hiding something. He shouldn't hem and haw and stammer when he speaks but talk directly to the people. He should also make it clear who is he is talking to and where his primary loyalty lies or where the locus of his loyalties and allegiances are. We do not look for someone who has an overarching vision of history in which America is apportioned its share of blame but a forceful articulation of what we can do with our immense power and prestige that will improve the lives of Americans first and then of others around the world. I think it takes a person who puts others before himself and is not merely preoccupied with his place in history and his own frail ego. Obama is wanting. He promised to bring us all together. Instead he complains that we just refuse to cooperate with him. He doesn't get it. He thinks it's all about him.
1
Yeah, we're all way worse off than we were in 2008. Other than that, oh, good grief.
3
He remains as controversial as ever.
You've never really listened to President Obama have you? That's a shame. You've missed a lot.
1
Juliani was a hack before 9/11. After 9/11 he was suddenly projected into the lime light as a hero. He mouths off like an unintelligent "my country wrong or righter". Thank goodness America was superior enough to elect Obama for the last two terms of the presidency.
8
Rudy Giuliani is a media creation. His flaws has cost lives.
After the 1993 attempt to blow up the World trade center the city decided to install a command center in case of terrorist like attacks in NYC. Against the expertise of police and federal intelligence Rudy decides to place the command center at the World trade center anyway. In other words he never reasoned that maybe terrorists would try to destroy the World trade center again.So that when 9/11 hit there was no effective communication with first responders. They were scrambling with no cohesion, Rudy was running through the streets petrified. He was frantic and frightened, not anything like he has been portrayed in the media. It was the media that gave Rudy more than his hand called for. He showed utter cowardice. To compound everything during the search for survivors, against scientific concern about the safety of first responders, the air was toxic. Rudy along with both Governors allowed those people to work in a toxic environment, even stating that the "air was good". Today most of those first responders have cancer, many have died. They petitioned congress to them help with medical costs. Where was Rudy? Not advocating for his first responders.. In fact he fell out with the NYPD/FDNY.
We NYer's were shocked at the pronouncement" America's Mayor" We weren't when his police commissioner went to prison for collusion with mobsters though...
After the 1993 attempt to blow up the World trade center the city decided to install a command center in case of terrorist like attacks in NYC. Against the expertise of police and federal intelligence Rudy decides to place the command center at the World trade center anyway. In other words he never reasoned that maybe terrorists would try to destroy the World trade center again.So that when 9/11 hit there was no effective communication with first responders. They were scrambling with no cohesion, Rudy was running through the streets petrified. He was frantic and frightened, not anything like he has been portrayed in the media. It was the media that gave Rudy more than his hand called for. He showed utter cowardice. To compound everything during the search for survivors, against scientific concern about the safety of first responders, the air was toxic. Rudy along with both Governors allowed those people to work in a toxic environment, even stating that the "air was good". Today most of those first responders have cancer, many have died. They petitioned congress to them help with medical costs. Where was Rudy? Not advocating for his first responders.. In fact he fell out with the NYPD/FDNY.
We NYer's were shocked at the pronouncement" America's Mayor" We weren't when his police commissioner went to prison for collusion with mobsters though...
7
AS someone who was born in the ruins of Nazi Germany, I always a tinge of unease when I hear the term "American exceptionalism" because I hear the echo of the term "master race"and that can lead to lot of grief.
9
Outrageous !What is it about minorities like Giuliani who believe in order to move into the mainstream of America, they have to wear their patriotism on their sleeve.What does the President have to do to show that he loves this country. He has spent four years fending off veiled racism. The bigots will never accept him, as one of the most progressive & great Presidents in every phase of leadership.He is not only a credit to his race,but a credit to America.We are a better country & a better people because of him. History will note this, & Giuliani's & his ilk will end up in the dust heap.
4
NYT will decline. It is obvious that Obama tried so hard to degrade America to bring other countries up and he is succeeding - the facts and polls of this article proved this. His true color will show after he steps down and many Americans will regret. America will decline further because of him; this makes my heart ach. I am a naturalized Asian American in US for 25 years and I see it clearly; I am extremely surprised that US-born Americans couldn't see it.
2
What facts are you referring to?
If you're going to live here you might want to read or watch some actual news and learn something about the country you live in.
If you're going to live here you might want to read or watch some actual news and learn something about the country you live in.
2
It's probably best to view Rudy Giuliani's claim regarding the President's (lack of) love for America, and Scott Walker's subsequent refusal to repudiate it, merely as the most tawdry of campaign tactics--bad taste and cowardice put in the service of an incipient candidacy. Giuliani isn't running for anything, but he dearly wishes to take Sarah Palin's place as most outrageous former politician in America. And Walker, who has raised refusal to be honest about his views if it's politically inconvenient to an art form, is only showing the country what Wisconsin has known for a long time.
3
I am not sure I get what Rudy's deal is, but then I was brought up to believe that anybody who thumped their chest and bragged about their patriotism this much wasn't a patriot and couldn't be trusted.
Somthing about "summer patriots," wasn't it?
Somthing about "summer patriots," wasn't it?
10
Those of us whose work requires constant international travel know what kind of exceptional reputation we have gained in the past two decades. We are exceptionally arrogant, exceptionally selfish, and exceptionally ignorant of the cultures and values found in other countries. To acknowledge our shortcomings is the first necessary step required to change our nation for the better; I am happy to have a President who understands this, especially after such an incurious and ignorant predecessor.
17
The term "perfect", as used in the preamble to which Mr. Blow refers, meant "complete" in the eighteenth century, not "flawless". The idea, perhaps, was that becoming fully unified would be a work in progress.
3
Invoking MLK to defend BHO is ludicrous at best. Mr. Blow, as usual, distorts the truth to advance a tissue of lies, to support a transparent and paper thin argument. To help Mr. Blow understand the obvious, I herewith present a selection of sentences.
A leader of the US that in word and deed abandons the producing citizenry, blocks progress for foreign and domestic detractors, enables enemies and degenerate governments as well as simultaneously rebuking and undercutting allies is suspect. Those that blindly defend him are worse than the paid cadre of sycophants he employes.
A leader of the US that in word and deed abandons the producing citizenry, blocks progress for foreign and domestic detractors, enables enemies and degenerate governments as well as simultaneously rebuking and undercutting allies is suspect. Those that blindly defend him are worse than the paid cadre of sycophants he employes.
2
George Orwell had several names for this kind of writing, none of them complimentary.
Here are some examples of the kind of America that Rudy and/or the Party to which he belongs subscribe: robbing the poor to subsidize the rich, trashing unions, depriving low-income workers affordable health care, voting down proposals to raise minimum pay and extended unemployment insurance, privatizing Social Security and Medicare, tearing down Medicaid and food stamps, denouncing same-sex marriage ("Liberty and justice for ALL"?), restricting the right to vote, intruding upon women's reproductive rights, routinely paying female employees less than their male counterparts, invading other nations (especially those with mineral resources) whose leaders don't happen to agree with ours, sending the children of the poor to fight those wars while keeping their own scions safe at home, polluting the atmosphere while dismissing the inconvenient fact of global warming, specifically targeting blacks and Latinos in police actions and matters of criminal sentencing and...well, I'm fast running out of space. When Rudy pledges allegiance to those ideas he reveals his own contempt for the idea of America.
16
This is why I respect John McCain (even though I didn't vote for him and often disagree with him). At one of his "town hall meetings" in 2008, in response to an anti-Obama comment by a woman in the audience, McCain said that Obama was a decent man with whom McCain differed on policy issues, and stuck to that statement in spite of getting a negative reaction from the audience.
Mitt Romney had an opportunity to do the same thing in response to anti-Obama comments in 2012 and passed it up. Now Scott Walker has passed up his opportunity. It remains to be seen whether any of the Republican candidates will demonstrate McCain's integrity and sense of honor. If they don't, is there any reason to trust them with the integrity and honor of the country?
Mitt Romney had an opportunity to do the same thing in response to anti-Obama comments in 2012 and passed it up. Now Scott Walker has passed up his opportunity. It remains to be seen whether any of the Republican candidates will demonstrate McCain's integrity and sense of honor. If they don't, is there any reason to trust them with the integrity and honor of the country?
18
Speaking of likely candidates...Mrs. Clinton has the same opportunity. I don't see her opening her mouth in Mr. Obama's defense.
1
Respect McCain? On the basis of one reaction? How about the years of silence in the face of gross mischaracterization of Obama as a foreigner, as a socialist, as a Muslim, as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose, as a purveyor of death panels? Silence is complicity, and we've had a lot more silence than guts from McCain and other senior GOPers.
3
Andrew Allen - Mrs. Clinton wasn't present during this speech.
1
Charles - for the first time I am in agreement with you. Well said about America not living up to its credo. However, the President unlike you or James Baldwin, is not in position to criticize her perpetually.
4
Mr. Giuliani - America's mayor - merely said what a lot of America is saying and has openly expressed. He gets press coverage; we do not.
Many who voted for Mr. Obama now regret that choice. Many of his choices appear to have nothing to do with American exceptionalism. Rather, they seem meant to slowly weaken America.
- Being the pied piper of illegal immigrants
- Injecting his opinion and the status of his office into local issues
- Being the "great divider" in issues of race and wealth
- Spending the nation into trillions of dollars of debt
- Squandering the sacrifices our military
- Putting our nation's safety at risk within our own borders
I'm sure others would like to add to that list. And I'd like to add one more that is perhaps worst - chumming up with select "news" media to spread his progressivista propaganda
Many who voted for Mr. Obama now regret that choice. Many of his choices appear to have nothing to do with American exceptionalism. Rather, they seem meant to slowly weaken America.
- Being the pied piper of illegal immigrants
- Injecting his opinion and the status of his office into local issues
- Being the "great divider" in issues of race and wealth
- Spending the nation into trillions of dollars of debt
- Squandering the sacrifices our military
- Putting our nation's safety at risk within our own borders
I'm sure others would like to add to that list. And I'd like to add one more that is perhaps worst - chumming up with select "news" media to spread his progressivista propaganda
9
Are all democrats unpatriotic then?
1
O come on, this is not someone who voted for President Obama. Last two words pretty well indicate where his comes from.
4
Here's on more that Charles somehow "forgot" to mention this from Obama in 2008:
"The problem is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt ... we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back. $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That's irresponsible, it's unpatriotic."
Unpatriotic! Un pa tri otic. Who loves you, Charles?
"The problem is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt ... we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back. $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That's irresponsible, it's unpatriotic."
Unpatriotic! Un pa tri otic. Who loves you, Charles?
3
Yes America is exceptional. It is the only country in the world with elected leaders that denigrate intellect and a citizenry that can live comfortably without being truly threatened by their rejection of the same.
5
I would say in agreement and amplification of Mr Blow, that America is evolved from an idea that has been improved upon is some ways, but not others. The progress in legal an social justice of the last 40 years is under increasing reactionary attack. Sadly, conservatism has become conflated with right wing reactionary neo-fascism - the American exceptionalism of Mssrs. Guiliani, Walker, Cheney, etc.
Also, an earlier comment referred to the holders of those beliefs as White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. I don't believe Mr Giuliani quite fits that description. Another example of him as a wannabe, perhaps?
Also, an earlier comment referred to the holders of those beliefs as White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. I don't believe Mr Giuliani quite fits that description. Another example of him as a wannabe, perhaps?
3
Ah, the fear of competence afflicts the worst Republicans and cannot be disguised. Let's regard this president's mother and her parents as the influences that made him devoid of bigoted attitudes.
6
IMO, we gave the world a great gift thanks to our Founding Fathers, that alone makes us exceptional; however, we are an insular country, mercifully surrounded by oceans and friendly nations, which has made us very provincial. This manifest itself in a feeling of "exceptionalism." Be careful though, there is a world out there, which has benefited from out might, but now it is suffering from our tone deaf handling of sensitive situations in foreign policy. Exceptionalism, provincialism, there is a razor thin difference between them. There is a lot of good that we can be proud of, but worldliness is not one of them.
Rudolph Giuliani is the worst example of a deaf, dumb and blind patriot. His ilk is the seeds of fascism - ad hominem attacks on people he personally does not like, or feels threatened by, or may thwart his opportunism.
Rudolph Giuliani is the worst example of a deaf, dumb and blind patriot. His ilk is the seeds of fascism - ad hominem attacks on people he personally does not like, or feels threatened by, or may thwart his opportunism.
13
This is an echo of the Vietnam Era. A popular lyric of the day was "Have one doubt and they call it treason." from the song "Compared to What?" When people made personal attacks on the patriotism of others it was called wrapping oneself in the flag. Gov. Walker, to his credit, wasn't foolish enough to bite on Giuliani's ill advised baiting of both the right and the left.
1
It appears Mr. Giuliani has lost his grip. The poor chap recently praised Vladimir Putin as a "real leader" compared to the our president. Mr. Putin showed his "real leadership" as he covered himself with slime following the crash of the Malaysian airliner when he failed to call off the dogs as rescuers attempted to recover the remains of the nearly 300 souls that perished in that crash.
Mr. Giuliani's comments last week about the President of the Unites States were utterly shameful and disgusting and in no way are they representative of the common sense conservatives in America
Mr. Giuliani's comments last week about the President of the Unites States were utterly shameful and disgusting and in no way are they representative of the common sense conservatives in America
11
Where and who are the "common sense conservatives" in America?
3
Why bother having a United States of America if we are not going to try to make it better and better, if we give up trying? Once you start to sit on your laurels, which I think has long since begun to happen in our country, precisely because too many people have thought "we are the greatest country in the world" without being able to cite facts and details that prove it any more, you're going down the tubes. When you take such an assertion on faith, when you do not constantly measure yourself honestly against "greatness", whether a country, a company, an organization, a family, an individual, there is a real danger, perhaps a probability that you will simply drift while the definition of "greatness" changes and you do not keep up. I am a teacher. Anyone who thinks he/she is a great teacher because he/she got a Great Teacher Award 25 years ago and has done nothing to change, thinking there is no need to, is almost certainly not a great teacher today. Anybody think Alex Rodriguez is a great baseball player today, just because he was a great baseball player with Seattle from 1996 to 2000? Someone explain exactly how and to what extent Mr. Rodriguez has improved his game since then. Now someone explain to me what the preservers of what they perceive to have been the real USA (that Mr. Giuliani loves so much) have done to improve the country since they have become ascendant, starting with the administration of Pres. Reagan.
6
If questions and stories regarding the President's love of country, fitness for office, etc., are no longer news and 'have shed their ability to shock' then why, Charles, are you spending these column inches leaping to their defense?
Excellence, fitness and, yes Charles.. patriotism speak for themselves. If our President was clearly demonstrating them then the GOP noise machine's rantings wouldn't command the attention and seriousness that they do and the Prez wouldn't need his left-wing lapdogs across the media defending him.
Excellence, fitness and, yes Charles.. patriotism speak for themselves. If our President was clearly demonstrating them then the GOP noise machine's rantings wouldn't command the attention and seriousness that they do and the Prez wouldn't need his left-wing lapdogs across the media defending him.
4
Shedding their ability to shock is a dreadful criterion. Americans have become so desensitized that they accept demonstrably false mutterings as entertainment and as legitimate political commentary. Meanwhile, thus distracted, the "base" is unaware of the transparency of the GOP emperors' new clothes.
Demonstrably false mutterings like, say, if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance, or, perhaps, that there has never been a better friend of Israel in the White House?
There's paint on both sides of the brush, my friend.
There's paint on both sides of the brush, my friend.
1
In the future, Obama will be seen as an exceptionally great president, one who accomplished much in spite of the hatred and overt racism he's experienced. And Giuliani will be a forgotten nobody.
13
John F Kennedy defined "We are all created equal" when he said "Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal. This is a statement to cherish. If I remember correctly he was speaking of mankind, not the USA or a love of country. I cannot imagine any Republican making this statement with any sincerity. I can imagine anyone who worries about someone's love of country making use of xenophobia and patriotism to foster sheep like dullness in the American electorate
6
Even when the pettiness, absurdity and destructive nature became glaringly apparent to anyone with a brain, there were at least 30% of Americans who supported impeaching Bill Clinton.
Around 30% also continued to support the Iraq war even after it was pretty much proved to be one of the biggest foreign policy disasters this country ever made.
Giuliani is speaking to that 30% (along with a big part of the Murdoch empire). And, unfortunately, no amount of education will ever get through to that crowd. We can only hope to limit how much they infect the other 30% or so who, struggling to survive, only pay intermittent attention to who is governing them.
Around 30% also continued to support the Iraq war even after it was pretty much proved to be one of the biggest foreign policy disasters this country ever made.
Giuliani is speaking to that 30% (along with a big part of the Murdoch empire). And, unfortunately, no amount of education will ever get through to that crowd. We can only hope to limit how much they infect the other 30% or so who, struggling to survive, only pay intermittent attention to who is governing them.
8
The government of the US has been created by "We The People."
Per Ronald Reagan, the government is the problem.
Republicans view Ronald Reagan as the standard against which all politicians should be measured.
So, it seems that the Republican standard calls the We the People of the United States the problem.
How's that for loving America?
Per Ronald Reagan, the government is the problem.
Republicans view Ronald Reagan as the standard against which all politicians should be measured.
So, it seems that the Republican standard calls the We the People of the United States the problem.
How's that for loving America?
7
Love is complex and complicated. Thinly veiled racist commentary is not. Perhaps Mr. Giuliani would understand the vile nature of his comments if someone were to point out how often the same things have been said about Italian Americans. But most likely not. He'll retreat fully back into the warm clutches of the FOX news/Republican echo chamber where he'll be welcomed as a "truth telling" hero and never have to think about what a hypocrite he is.
7
Somewhere in my 68 years, I picked up the notion that you show love for your country by embracing the parts that work and working to fix the parts that don't. There are things that America has done better than any country on earth, the Peace Corps and the Marshall Plan come to mind, and there are things that America should not be so proud of, the sorry state of health care and foot-dragging on climate change might be examples. If we wallow in self-admiration we are going to be very deservedly left behind.
10
Dr. King and the KKK are both very American. Which one do you love Mr. Giuliani?
6
In general, conservatives like Rudy Giuliani and so many others of his ilk need to learn that whatever pops up in their head doesn't have to pop out of their mouth. Thinking before speaking is a sign of emotional/intellectual maturity. In addition, I believe that this "Who Loves America" debacle reflects one main reason those on the Right can't understand or communicate well with President Obama. Developmentally and metaphorically they are still in Kindergarted; President Obama is a graduating senior. And it's impossible for those in lower grades to understand and not be intimidated by those higher up that developmental ladder. It's also common for the developmentally challenged to denigrate and scapegoat anyone they can't understand in an unconscious attempt to make themsleves feel less inferior.
7
I'm pretty sure Rudy was right when he said that the president doesn't love him. Guess what Rudy? Very few American love you anymore. You've spent the last 10 years exploiting the victims of 9/11 and their families and made yourself a multi-millionaire.
Rudy Guliani: The worst thing that ever happened to our country might have been the best thing that ever happened to him.
Rudy Guliani: The worst thing that ever happened to our country might have been the best thing that ever happened to him.
7
If only a large majority of Americans were, ethically speaking, right minded. Sadly, that is not the case and so columns like this one need to be repeated again and again in order to neutralize the mindless vitriol of the hate mongering right wing in this country
5
No one a better hater than the liberal left
4
The attraction of the Daley/Colbert shows, and our top comedians, the late George Carlin, comes to mind, is their sense of the ironic ---that no nation should itself too seriously--when they do, they become dangerous. What comedy does so well is continually identify the gaps that exist between what our political leadership proclaims and what they actually do--and that gap appears to be widening in this country. What is disheartening about the gaps, whether it be about income or race or peace, are politicians who not only do not recognize the gaps exist, but take great pride in widening those gaps. A man who has made millions from hustling his 9/11 credentials is a perfect example of a political class who has lost their sense of irony.
6
I understand the Mayor. The President of the U S should be more of a cheerleader than someone who perpetually criticizes the country.
3
Personally, I don't my President to be Cheerleader-in-Chief.
I prefer him or her to be Commander-in-Chief.
I prefer him or her to be Commander-in-Chief.
4
This country is wonderful, exceptionally beautiful, such a delight to travel through, from the New England shoreline, to the mountains and shores in the west, and so much in between. Each section has its unique beauty and history that are thrilling. We are so blessed. I love it! And we are lucky we have those who would preserve these for everyone.
We are also fortunate to have such a wonderful governing system set up by our founding fathers. However, abuses of that system have crept in over the years by certain individuals, grasping for political power and personal satisfaction – the practices George Washington warned us to be aware of. They are not being done for love of country, but rather for personal pride and love of self. Love of country certainly involves a true look at ourselves to see where things have gone wrong so we can correct them – and then be willing to work to correct them for the whole, uniting us all.
Sloganeering and empty words do not show a deep love for anything. Causing political strife is an abomination, according to the bible. So is pride, which “goeth before a fall.” And what about that caution about seeing the log in one's own eye befor criticizing others?
It is the actions that men take together to build a better country for us all that demonstrate love of country.
We are also fortunate to have such a wonderful governing system set up by our founding fathers. However, abuses of that system have crept in over the years by certain individuals, grasping for political power and personal satisfaction – the practices George Washington warned us to be aware of. They are not being done for love of country, but rather for personal pride and love of self. Love of country certainly involves a true look at ourselves to see where things have gone wrong so we can correct them – and then be willing to work to correct them for the whole, uniting us all.
Sloganeering and empty words do not show a deep love for anything. Causing political strife is an abomination, according to the bible. So is pride, which “goeth before a fall.” And what about that caution about seeing the log in one's own eye befor criticizing others?
It is the actions that men take together to build a better country for us all that demonstrate love of country.
3
Whether it's Giuliani or others on either side of the polarized divide, those promoting causes use language as a weapon and not as a means to convey clear intent. It's a highjacking of language removed from its basic purpose. As in the case of truth, unobfuscated language is an early casualty of warring scenarios.
I thought by the time I reached this advanced age I would see a change like no other era had experienced. I'm stunned sometimes at how wrong I was and how often the exact opposite is happening. I thought by electing Obama (twice!) that it would pull Americans together and instead it is tearing us further apart.
Wil S. Hylton was just published February 4, 2015 in the NYTimes magazine with an article titled "The Shame of Americas Family Detention Camps". Please read some of the comments under 'Reader Picks' and look at the numbers of people who agreed with some of the viciousness spewed by people who probably call them selves Christians.
Thank you Mr. Blow for your work.
Wil S. Hylton was just published February 4, 2015 in the NYTimes magazine with an article titled "The Shame of Americas Family Detention Camps". Please read some of the comments under 'Reader Picks' and look at the numbers of people who agreed with some of the viciousness spewed by people who probably call them selves Christians.
Thank you Mr. Blow for your work.
4
I think this statement from JFK says it all:
'My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.'
'My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.'
3
How can you say you love our country and then hate everything about our government? Our government that was created by the US Constitution? Because that's what Republicans like Giuliani are saying these days.
3
Isn't the reason Barack Obama became President - and Rudy Giuliani did not - precisely BECAUSE Obama doesn't "love America" in the same way that Giuliani does?
4
Love of country, starts with respect for the land and natural resources that provide for us. Without a sustained respect for the environment, no government on this world will last.
6
The only people I know who do not love America are the voters who voted for the charlatan in the WH not once but twice. Shame on them for not voting for the better candidate and putting America's interests first, their own dependence on Government handouts second.
5
I voted for President Obama (the second time he ran). I worked my way out of poverty and into a comfortable life. If you looked at the voter stats you would see that I'm not alone.
Shame on you for buying into hate speech and stereotypes.
Shame on you for buying into hate speech and stereotypes.
6
Given that all politics is scale-independent, a well-educated person aspires to be a world citizen.
2
America is by far the most diverse nation in the world, welcoming more immigrants than any other nation on the planet. Welcoming not just the "talented" as Canada does, but also the poor and harried. Where else could a child of the Tucson barrio grow up to own an MLB baseball team, a child of a single mom a billionaire media mogul, a child of the Bronx the leader of our nation's armed forces, and a child of Chicago president of the country. America has been so welcoming to immigrants that our public services are stretched very thin. Yet all our "progressive" brothers and sisters can manage, indulging the self-aggrandizement of moral opportunism, is to denounce America and especially "white" America. When you having nothing but criticism and insults to levy at America and throw public servants like the police under the bus and gratuitously criticize Christians at the first opportunity, it is a travesty to say you love America. It will be a cold day in Gila Bend when I ever vote for a "progressive" again. I deeply regret voting twice for a president who gratuitously insults my religion.
I'm replying to you as an African-American Christian who grew up being told that my race "deserved" to be enslaved and oppressed. We were, you see, descendants of Ham. (Genesis 9:20-27). Barack Obama didn't insult Christianity. He told the truth about those who used it - and still do - to justify their racism and hatred. Don't get it twisted. Get it right.
300
If we're going to "get it right," then the President needs to address who was responsible for the European slave trade: what group that conquered Spain and Anatolia was taking and buying European slaves, what groups were trafficking in European slaves and what group specialized in castrating boys headed for slavery in Muslim held Spain.
i must say (again) i do not for a minute believe your last sentence has any truth in it whatsoever!
10
I think the "love of country" canard is just another way to promote a mindless and destructive nationalism. Nationalism causes unnecessary divisions between peoples and wars. Politicians and pundits should be promoting love of the Earth and the need for compassion for all living beings. "Love of country" is narrow, out of date, and a dead end.
7
I guess Mr. Giuliani's mom and dad never burdened him with constructive criticism? While insisting they wanted him to improve BECAUSE they loved him? Maybe not; that would explain why he thinks he's perfect.
6
Excellent piece.
First off, who is Rudy Giualiani to determine who loves America? I think to understand this statement from him, we have to put him in is proper immigrant and ethnic context as the grandson of Italian immigrants. How much of his "love" for this country and the police (who he backs in an almost childlike way) is his way of trying to be part if a country that his family has been in for less than 100 year, a country that was not very kind to Italian immigrants. How much of his comment is rooted in his own feelings of ethnic alienation, his own desire to be part of the white American mainstream. I think (no, I know), a lot, but it's too much to go into here.
That aside, you get to the heart of the problem in this essay. America sets forth ideals, which are admirable, perhaps the finest of any country (and those of us whose families immigrated here know that you get a better shot here than anywhere else), but it doesn't always live up to them. So, we need to be reflective... what is it, the unexamined life isn't worth living? Well, the unexamined country isn't worth loving. I love my family, my neighbors, my community, my country, but in loving them, I always want them to be the best that they can be. And to be the best that they can be means to cast the most critical eye upon them. It's the only way to ascend to true greatness.
First off, who is Rudy Giualiani to determine who loves America? I think to understand this statement from him, we have to put him in is proper immigrant and ethnic context as the grandson of Italian immigrants. How much of his "love" for this country and the police (who he backs in an almost childlike way) is his way of trying to be part if a country that his family has been in for less than 100 year, a country that was not very kind to Italian immigrants. How much of his comment is rooted in his own feelings of ethnic alienation, his own desire to be part of the white American mainstream. I think (no, I know), a lot, but it's too much to go into here.
That aside, you get to the heart of the problem in this essay. America sets forth ideals, which are admirable, perhaps the finest of any country (and those of us whose families immigrated here know that you get a better shot here than anywhere else), but it doesn't always live up to them. So, we need to be reflective... what is it, the unexamined life isn't worth living? Well, the unexamined country isn't worth loving. I love my family, my neighbors, my community, my country, but in loving them, I always want them to be the best that they can be. And to be the best that they can be means to cast the most critical eye upon them. It's the only way to ascend to true greatness.
3
America, the shining beacon on the hill, the nation founded on the belief that power lies with the people, that is what makes America exceptional and it is what demands eternal vigilance to prove that the people can govern themselves.
America is a place where the people have the power to make a more perfect union; but, we also have the opportunity to let that be taken away from us if we are not vigilante in defense of our principles of self-government. As Ben Franklin said when asked what kind of country the founding fathers had birthed, "a Republic, for as long as you can hold it."
America is a place where the people have the power to make a more perfect union; but, we also have the opportunity to let that be taken away from us if we are not vigilante in defense of our principles of self-government. As Ben Franklin said when asked what kind of country the founding fathers had birthed, "a Republic, for as long as you can hold it."
2
Well, it is the silly season, campaign '16. Politicians say polarizing things, then, the next day, quibble about definitions. Giuliani isn't running and acts like a right-wing meatball for the floundering Republican party. Scott Walker has been all over the road, catering to one intolerance or the other, depending where political pragmatism sends him.
It’s unfortunate the Republican party feels the need to veer right on social issues such as women’s reproductive rights, marriage rights, and patriotic flag waving. If politicians, parties, and government reflect the body-politic, isn’t it sad there’s such a divide in the American people? Shouldn’t an era of universal education, information, and social openness steer our ‘nation’ less toward social divisiveness, and more toward united quest for economic opportunity, if not security?
The money that decides elections resides in the hands of those most interested in controlling the venues of economic opportunity. It is in the interest of such parties to divert the attention of the electorate to more divisive if not frivolous issues such as flag waving.
It’s unfortunate the Republican party feels the need to veer right on social issues such as women’s reproductive rights, marriage rights, and patriotic flag waving. If politicians, parties, and government reflect the body-politic, isn’t it sad there’s such a divide in the American people? Shouldn’t an era of universal education, information, and social openness steer our ‘nation’ less toward social divisiveness, and more toward united quest for economic opportunity, if not security?
The money that decides elections resides in the hands of those most interested in controlling the venues of economic opportunity. It is in the interest of such parties to divert the attention of the electorate to more divisive if not frivolous issues such as flag waving.
3
Right on, Mr. Blow. To love this country best we need to improve it as we can.
7
While I disagree with the former Mayor, whom I didn't like or vote for. There is a certain trepidation to President Obama on the subject of Islam. I'm still trying to find the peace loving religion we are told it is by every apologist. Alienated Muslim youth are angry and isolated due to the tension and confusion of assimilation that a restrictive religion shackles them by, not by "western society" or racist policies. France the most secular of any western country has a big problem with a vast Muslim population, not because of their discrimination against muslims, but because their laws forbid religious practice and symbols at work, school and public forums. Muslims have to figure out to where their loyalties are bound, in the countries that gifted them with citizenship and freedom or the home country that imprisoned their minds and actions with organized religion designed to exploit the weak and protect the powerful. Quit blaming the west. Rudy Giuliani is no hero of mine, but he's not without a point.
1
Moslems are not a homogeneous group, any more than are Christians, Jews, Buddhists, or any other major religion.
Yes, there are Moslems who generate terror and attack the innocent. There are also many more Moslems who are just ordinary individuals who have jobs and families and get along with others. Moslems speak a variety of languages and come from a variety of cultures and countries. You can't paint them all with same brush.
Christians have a terrible history when it comes to persecuting others. Do we judge all Christians by the Klan or the Inquisition?
There is even persecution these days by self-professed Buddhists, which I find mind-boggling. Should we judge other Buddhists by this?
Here's a quote for you. "Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion." Who said it? Not Obama. George W. Bush.
While we have a right to protect ourselves, we can not do so at the expense of those who are not attacking us. Otherwise, we are as bad as the attackers.
Yes, there are Moslems who generate terror and attack the innocent. There are also many more Moslems who are just ordinary individuals who have jobs and families and get along with others. Moslems speak a variety of languages and come from a variety of cultures and countries. You can't paint them all with same brush.
Christians have a terrible history when it comes to persecuting others. Do we judge all Christians by the Klan or the Inquisition?
There is even persecution these days by self-professed Buddhists, which I find mind-boggling. Should we judge other Buddhists by this?
Here's a quote for you. "Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion." Who said it? Not Obama. George W. Bush.
While we have a right to protect ourselves, we can not do so at the expense of those who are not attacking us. Otherwise, we are as bad as the attackers.
2
This makes the idea of having at least two different countries, if not more, all the more valid.
A national divorce is long overdue. It was something that should have done in 1840 or so and this horrible marriage has gone since then.
This never really was "one" country and never will be.
Reading the comments here, I realize that the liberals hate the conservatives and/or GOP from the bottom of their heart — and likewise.
What's the point of "one" country? We have nothing to offer each other.
Nothing. Bring out the map, draw up new borders and be done with it.
We'll all be happier, healthier, more successful and certainly more productive. What are we waiting for?
A national divorce is long overdue. It was something that should have done in 1840 or so and this horrible marriage has gone since then.
This never really was "one" country and never will be.
Reading the comments here, I realize that the liberals hate the conservatives and/or GOP from the bottom of their heart — and likewise.
What's the point of "one" country? We have nothing to offer each other.
Nothing. Bring out the map, draw up new borders and be done with it.
We'll all be happier, healthier, more successful and certainly more productive. What are we waiting for?
1
When Pres. Obama speaks, I find that I am proud of our country. He is a thoughtful, educated man with a balanced view of history. Yes, the Crusades was an appropriate reference.
When Rudy speaks, I am filled with loathing and derision. "He doesn't love you and he doesn't love me." Really? When was love of country conflated with love of individuals? Rudy is a rabble-rousing pinhead masquerading as a leader. thank god his political career is finito.
When Rudy speaks, I am filled with loathing and derision. "He doesn't love you and he doesn't love me." Really? When was love of country conflated with love of individuals? Rudy is a rabble-rousing pinhead masquerading as a leader. thank god his political career is finito.
10
When one side of the political debate is constantly espousing a parade of horrible flaws that must be changed, and in so divides up the population into victims and aggressors, and the other is expressing a desire to preserve today and historical tradition, it's not hard to see where the true love of America lives. And it's not with those seeking change.
4
Preserve what historical tradition? Segregation? Second class citizens status for women and gay people? What traditions are you talking about?
Republicans never hesitate to talk about how evil government is, especially when they're running for office. Does that strike you as love for the U.S.?
Republicans never hesitate to talk about how evil government is, especially when they're running for office. Does that strike you as love for the U.S.?
4
The United States has been defined by its commitment to equal rights and its failures to comprehend and embrace the reality of equal rights for all. Each movement toward this goal represents a shining moment in our history, yet each step has been preceded by decades of struggle, derision and suppression.
The former mayor's remarks were silly but reflect the tenacious perspective of white male entitlement that has resisted our nation's humanitarian development from the beginning.
The former mayor's remarks were silly but reflect the tenacious perspective of white male entitlement that has resisted our nation's humanitarian development from the beginning.
7
Special rights for special people or groups do not equal "equal rights".
Laura, if your love interest tells you that he/she wants to fundamentally change you--your looks, speech, thoughts, actions, etc., would you really believe that he/she loves you? No, he/she loves something which is completely different from you. I hope that you would run as fast as you can from that relationship.
Laura, if your love interest tells you that he/she wants to fundamentally change you--your looks, speech, thoughts, actions, etc., would you really believe that he/she loves you? No, he/she loves something which is completely different from you. I hope that you would run as fast as you can from that relationship.
"American Exceptionalism" is always trumpeted by conservatives who wish we could just get back to the good old days. They hold up our founding fathers (who were radicals) as the ideal.
The truth is, Republicans want to restore us to a society similar to what the founding fathers fought against. Republicans present current-day oligarchs as the chosen ones, anointed by God. We must submit to their will, for they know best. Our duty is to bend to the oligarchs will and never question them.
They may not have found their king yet, but Republicans sure have found their noble class. I think our founding fathers would be appalled.
The truth is, Republicans want to restore us to a society similar to what the founding fathers fought against. Republicans present current-day oligarchs as the chosen ones, anointed by God. We must submit to their will, for they know best. Our duty is to bend to the oligarchs will and never question them.
They may not have found their king yet, but Republicans sure have found their noble class. I think our founding fathers would be appalled.
11
"American exceptionalism" used to be a term for political scientists and historians; it has the air of the outside observer about it. I never thought I'd live to see the day when it would be used by those who held the view to describe themselves.
I am a loyal, patriotic American who loves her country and the ideals it stands for. Nevertheless I cringe at the term "American Exceptionalism".
To me the concept of "American Exceptionalism" reminds me too much of the 19th century's "Manifest Destiny" which was used to justify the slaughter of Native Americans and annexation of territory via baseless wars. Did our forebearers believe that God loved us more than the people we slaughtered and enslaved?
Don't get me wrong. I am proud of my country. We welcomed millions of 'huddled masses' to our shore and gave them opportunities to thrive. We helped save the world from the Nazis. We are reliably there to help in natural disasters. We sent a man to the moon. We have also done so much to actualize the ideals of our Founding Fathers. But to really appreciate and love America we need to have an understanding of all of our history--not just the "good" parts.
To me the concept of "American Exceptionalism" reminds me too much of the 19th century's "Manifest Destiny" which was used to justify the slaughter of Native Americans and annexation of territory via baseless wars. Did our forebearers believe that God loved us more than the people we slaughtered and enslaved?
Don't get me wrong. I am proud of my country. We welcomed millions of 'huddled masses' to our shore and gave them opportunities to thrive. We helped save the world from the Nazis. We are reliably there to help in natural disasters. We sent a man to the moon. We have also done so much to actualize the ideals of our Founding Fathers. But to really appreciate and love America we need to have an understanding of all of our history--not just the "good" parts.
12
To quote William Sloane Coffin:
There are three kinds of patriots, two bad, one good. The bad ones are the uncritical lovers and the loveless critics. Good patriots carry on a lover's quarrel with their country.
As a psychotherapist I might add that the loveless critics are heartless cynics. The uncritical lovers are brainless narcissists.
There are three kinds of patriots, two bad, one good. The bad ones are the uncritical lovers and the loveless critics. Good patriots carry on a lover's quarrel with their country.
As a psychotherapist I might add that the loveless critics are heartless cynics. The uncritical lovers are brainless narcissists.
8
Saying that we are exceptional does not mean that we do not acknowledge our failures and errors. It means that we are different from others, and most of us believe that our way is a better way than that of other countries. We should always strive to do better. When we speak of exceptional students or doctors we don't mean that they never made mistakes, but, that they are above the pack in their fields. We also learn that they made every effort to learn from their mistakes. Let Obama "fundamentally change" you, as you tell me how much he really loves you. No, we don't want to fundamentally change someone or something that we love.
The most salient views about the United States often come from the detached perspectives outside the country. I recently heard a Dutch pension fund executive (in the Netherlands, pensions are highly regulated and workers cannot be ripped off in their retirement by failing businesses) say that it's a standing joke among his colleagues that such a "great" country as the United States can get so many things completely and utterly wrong.
7
And of course the irony is that one would think it would be the self-proclaimed "Party of Personal Responsibility" that would be practicing patriotic introspection. After all, part of being a responsible person is being aware of shortcomings, as well as strengths, and taking responsibility for them by acknowledging them, much as the best parents do with their children and individuals do for themselves.
It is in fact not responsible to just blurt out that your kid is perfect and has no flaws and you just love him or her blindly and everyone else should as well.
It is in fact not responsible to just blurt out that your kid is perfect and has no flaws and you just love him or her blindly and everyone else should as well.
9
We've all been gifted with some intellect, while not all of us have developed common sense. Our President appears to have developed some when he advises us we're not at war with Islam but rather dealing with a small segment of dissatisfied citizens who've been inflamed by radical religious leaders. Some love for America has been lost, but love for the concept of what it once appeared to stand for remains in the heart of citizens worldwide. It's time to repaint the portrait of our nation by removing some of the ignored flagrant conflicts of interest which have damaged our nation and our society.
6
The idea of America, land of the free and home of the brave, resonates throughout the world. It is the idea that fosters hopes, dreams, and aspirations. People still yearn to be here. We are different than countries across the pond. We should be a beacon for freedom, prosperity, and individualism.
To love America is to embrace it. We must keep ill thought out notions out of our great country to keep it great.
To love America is to embrace it. We must keep ill thought out notions out of our great country to keep it great.
If there's anything that the history of this country shows, it's ill-thought-out ideas. Yours, for instance. In any case, without aloppy thinking there would BE no United States.
But let me guess who you'd like to have running around as the Thought Police.
But let me guess who you'd like to have running around as the Thought Police.
“He doesn’t love you. And he doesn’t love me. He wasn’t brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country.”
You know what, Rudy: I don't love you either.
And, for the record, I wasn't brought up the way you were brought up: my dad never was sent to prison, neither I nor my brothers ever sought draft deferments, and we all served in this nation's military services.
One last point: I'm a 70-year old geezer from Dixie. I know a dog whistle when I hear one. And you're dog whistling. I know what you're calling President Obama, and by that alone I judge you and find you lacking.
Rudy: just shut up and go away.
You know what, Rudy: I don't love you either.
And, for the record, I wasn't brought up the way you were brought up: my dad never was sent to prison, neither I nor my brothers ever sought draft deferments, and we all served in this nation's military services.
One last point: I'm a 70-year old geezer from Dixie. I know a dog whistle when I hear one. And you're dog whistling. I know what you're calling President Obama, and by that alone I judge you and find you lacking.
Rudy: just shut up and go away.
115
Well, it's certainly refreshing to hear these words from a card-carrying Southerner. Too bad more of your compatriots don't share your vision, but at least we have you. Saludos.
1
Rudy Giuliani once said, "when you confront a problem, you can solve it." Well NYC, Giuliani is the broken window that needs to be cleaned up.
16
Mayor Rudy Giuliani? The corporate and political office where I worked for a NY City public official, a man who as an adolescent fled the Gestapo and went on to save New York from bankruptcy, would have little as possible to do with this mayor. The latter was to prove the exception to the rule. Dark years during his tenure and there was a tacit understanding that he was mean, with a lack of compassion in his make-up. We avoided his name, while my boss rarely spoke of his own experience joining the Korean War, when a young man for his love of America.
Here this American is not paying attention to this former mayor who has popped up again in our midst and who appears not to have changed in any way.
Here this American is not paying attention to this former mayor who has popped up again in our midst and who appears not to have changed in any way.
7
"American exceptionalism" to Mr. Guiliani seems to be bashing the US president and bragging about having been mayor of NYC on 9/11.
I don't see anything exceptional about either.
I don't see anything exceptional about either.
9
It is good to hear a sitting President tell us what needs to be worked on as a nation both within our borders and as our place in the world. President's have a unique perspective. President Obama has outlined many times what is good about America but at the moment, he has very little to work with at least from a governmental stand point with our standing on so many social issues, education, etc. decades behind the rest of developed countries. It doesn't hurt us to challenge us to do better.
10
Mr. Blow, it is remarkable how you flesh out the ideas to which "America's mayor" alluded. Nothing is more detrimental to the most important ideals (patriotism, religion, relationships) than a blind allegiance and covetousness of long ago beliefs and experiences. All shrines eventually fall because they are meant to fall. It's not a matter of poor construction or sincerity, but a universal law applied that renders all such things (like people) in need of perpetual adjustment.
5
Great column. After reading Guliani's juvenile comments I couldn't help likening his approach to governing to the current approach many parents now take toward parenting. Obviously, you don't love your children if you don't shower them with praise, regardless of actual performance or achievement or if you deprive them of every luxury or reward possible.
Just a few months ago, the NYTimes quoted a mother as saying that her seven year old "deserved" a massage at a spa. And pity the teacher who sends home a note to a parent about a misbehaving child. What? How dare you pick on my child, the embodiment of perfection?
Needless to say, this country is on the same path as America's youth -- underachievement, elitism and no sense of self -- unless its leaders stop doing the easy thing. At some point, marketing executives were able to convince parents that the word "no" should not be in their vocabularies and that the pillars of good parenting are a checkbook and absolute praise in all situations.
Following that lead, Guliani and his cohorts are quietly turning this country into a clueless, irresponsible, entitled, underachieving spoiled brat.
Just a few months ago, the NYTimes quoted a mother as saying that her seven year old "deserved" a massage at a spa. And pity the teacher who sends home a note to a parent about a misbehaving child. What? How dare you pick on my child, the embodiment of perfection?
Needless to say, this country is on the same path as America's youth -- underachievement, elitism and no sense of self -- unless its leaders stop doing the easy thing. At some point, marketing executives were able to convince parents that the word "no" should not be in their vocabularies and that the pillars of good parenting are a checkbook and absolute praise in all situations.
Following that lead, Guliani and his cohorts are quietly turning this country into a clueless, irresponsible, entitled, underachieving spoiled brat.
14
Apparently Mr. Giuliani assumes only the Fox News audience pays attention to his public comments. 63 million Americans voted for Mr. Obama in 2012. By default Mr. Giuliani regards Obama supporters (I guess all 63 million) as haters of America. Mr. Giuliani, it is silly to assume we America 'haters' will ignore your racist/xenophobic taunts, even when delivered to the Republican base.
So if we agree with Mr. Giuliani we love America and if we do not agree with Mr. Giuliani we ________ (fill in the blank). Silly person with thoughtless comments that in the end divide instead of edifying. Nice job, Rudy.
So if we agree with Mr. Giuliani we love America and if we do not agree with Mr. Giuliani we ________ (fill in the blank). Silly person with thoughtless comments that in the end divide instead of edifying. Nice job, Rudy.
6
You are absolutely right, Mr Blow. A nation is a living thing, not a fossil in a museum, and living things remain alive by continuously adapting to change, some of which they may have triggered themselves. This means correcting what has turned wrong and maintaining and reproducing what's right. But of course, this is the central tenet of evolution, and evolution is anathema to a part of the American public.
10
Who loves America?
It’s hard, almost impossible, to peak into the hearts and minds of other people.
Thus we can only analyze the specific actions of our elected representatives to determine whether they love America or not.
Do George H. Bush and Bill Clinton love America? The answer is NO.
Prerequisite to be the president is to have extraordinary analytical abilities and be able to recognize own mistakes. All the people make the mistakes, but the smart ones can later recognize them. The smart ones who love America too are willing to confess their sins in front of whole country.
Let’s go back to the first Gulf War waged in 1990.
What was the best course of action for America? The best and fully constitutional solution would have been to stay neutral after Saddam Hussein occupied Kuwait.
Why?
He did it to be able to pay back the loans the West gave him during a decade long Iraq-Iraq War and after the prices of oil nosedived on the world market.
Without our intervention, the Saudis would have been forced to modernize their society to gather the popular support to confront a potential Saddam aggression and to bribe the Egyptians into supporting them in a case of such a war.
Significantly financing the Egyptian economy would improve the lives of the poor locals and spent the extra funds that were later used to spread radical Wahhabi ideology across the Middle East and the globe.
By staying out of Iraq we would have prevented creation of Al Qaeda and ISIS...
It’s hard, almost impossible, to peak into the hearts and minds of other people.
Thus we can only analyze the specific actions of our elected representatives to determine whether they love America or not.
Do George H. Bush and Bill Clinton love America? The answer is NO.
Prerequisite to be the president is to have extraordinary analytical abilities and be able to recognize own mistakes. All the people make the mistakes, but the smart ones can later recognize them. The smart ones who love America too are willing to confess their sins in front of whole country.
Let’s go back to the first Gulf War waged in 1990.
What was the best course of action for America? The best and fully constitutional solution would have been to stay neutral after Saddam Hussein occupied Kuwait.
Why?
He did it to be able to pay back the loans the West gave him during a decade long Iraq-Iraq War and after the prices of oil nosedived on the world market.
Without our intervention, the Saudis would have been forced to modernize their society to gather the popular support to confront a potential Saddam aggression and to bribe the Egyptians into supporting them in a case of such a war.
Significantly financing the Egyptian economy would improve the lives of the poor locals and spent the extra funds that were later used to spread radical Wahhabi ideology across the Middle East and the globe.
By staying out of Iraq we would have prevented creation of Al Qaeda and ISIS...
2
Guiliani's hateful, divisive speech about our President is a good example of not "having love" for this country. Show some respect.
13
No person, country, or organization are perfect. If you don't acknowledge the actual truth...then you will never be a better person, country, or company. Truth provides the light for growth. Is the country great - yes. Is it perfect - certainly not. It is a balance...and has nothing to do with left, right, or center...just the truth as each of us sees it and how to make things better for all - not just a few.
6
"American Exceptionalism" is analogous to and serves the same purpose as the the idea fed to poor southern whites, that their whiteness was enough to make them superior, and they should not be concerned that their economic and social condition was so bad.
9
I think the point was that Obama was raised in the 70s and imbibed that pernicious doctrine that everything we did was wrong. It has hobbled his foreign policy. Hopefully, the 80s generation will take power soon. It was awful to go to an Ivy in the 70s and hear that constant refrain of how evil and genocidal we are.
2
No, the senseless wars we entered were wrong. I'm glad we have a President who understands that.
2
The point is, actually, that this is a dippy claim: it's not what got taught except by a few loonboxes, though it's sure a claim that gets thrown around a lot by the Right.
If you were in an Ivy League university back then, be soecific: what course, what prof, what book, do you have in mind? name them. Quote them.
If you were in an Ivy League university back then, be soecific: what course, what prof, what book, do you have in mind? name them. Quote them.
The fact that the smoke hadn't even cleared at Ground Zero before Guiliani started cashing in on 9/11 tells you a lot about his character. I'm sure he thanks the stars above for 9/11 every day since it's made him such a wealthy man. I doubt the victims of the tragedy ever cross his mind.
12
Rudy is not worthy of a column. Who cares what gibberish he's spouting now to grab attention? He should be made to stand in the corner with Palin and no recess for being disrespectful.
17
Giuliani's insulting comments about President Obama remind me of the myths candidate Romney threw out, like that he would make "No Apologies" for America. Yet neither man has no particular concern with most American citizens and express their "love of country" through flag displays and empty tough-talk about fighting enemies. President Obama has walked the walk of patriotism by two terms of putting the long-term interests of the US first.
12
Why pay any attention to what Giuliani said? As New Yorkers, we know very well that he is brash and beyond arrogant. On September 11, when our city was broken and our spirits were in the gutter, he was just what the doctor ordered, and we should be eternally grateful for that. But the rest of the time, he's just a fool.
10
This column is very interesting. At 56, I've been struggling with my idea of patriotism. In my early 20s, I spent 3 1/2 years in the Army as a commissioned officer. I really wanted to be there - I did not receive an ROTC scholarship, & aside from a small monthly stipend my last two years, didn't receive any help from ROTC at all. I only left the service because I'd married another officer & we couldn't get stationed together.
Two children and 35 years later, I'm terribly disillusioned with my country. The army I used to love has been stripped bare and those who rise through the ranks are generally those most willing to kiss a--. The US has become divided by hatred and ideology. I waver between disliking my country intensely and thinking that at least it's better than anywhere else.
Until I read this, I'd never considered that I could be both disillusioned and patriotic. I'll have to re-think everything. That's the purpose of opinion pieces; I'm glad I read this today.
Two children and 35 years later, I'm terribly disillusioned with my country. The army I used to love has been stripped bare and those who rise through the ranks are generally those most willing to kiss a--. The US has become divided by hatred and ideology. I waver between disliking my country intensely and thinking that at least it's better than anywhere else.
Until I read this, I'd never considered that I could be both disillusioned and patriotic. I'll have to re-think everything. That's the purpose of opinion pieces; I'm glad I read this today.
10
"Disillusioned and patriotic." A wonderful phrase. Thank you.
In therapy, one learns that one has to acknowledge that one has a problem, and recognize that it is a problem, before one can set about to solving the problem. America is not just a great place, it's a great idea, but it has problems, and if we don't acknowledge this, we won't solve the many problems in this country. Unfortunately, some people seem to perceive any recognition that there are problems as tantamount to treason, so they put their hands over their ears, close their eyes, and go, "La la la la la la la." That solves nothing. And as the saying goes, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
In therapy, one learns that one has to acknowledge that one has a problem, and recognize that it is a problem, before one can set about to solving the problem. America is not just a great place, it's a great idea, but it has problems, and if we don't acknowledge this, we won't solve the many problems in this country. Unfortunately, some people seem to perceive any recognition that there are problems as tantamount to treason, so they put their hands over their ears, close their eyes, and go, "La la la la la la la." That solves nothing. And as the saying goes, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
1
Giuliani will never run for office again. He is wealthy enough not to have to work again. He is old enough to not care what people think of him. In short, he feels free to say what he wants and thus ends up saying what many Americans believe - Obama does not love America.
Frankly, I don't even think Obama tries to hide the fact that he doesn't love this country. Why else would anyone in their right mind subvert our own laws in an effort to let illegal immigrants overrun our borders? Want to know why wages are so low in this country? Ask the illegal who is willing to work for $7 an hour, no questions asked. This policy in fact hurts black workers even more than whites and yet I have never heard Blow complain about it.
Frankly, I don't even think Obama tries to hide the fact that he doesn't love this country. Why else would anyone in their right mind subvert our own laws in an effort to let illegal immigrants overrun our borders? Want to know why wages are so low in this country? Ask the illegal who is willing to work for $7 an hour, no questions asked. This policy in fact hurts black workers even more than whites and yet I have never heard Blow complain about it.
5
It's so sad to see how deluded people like you are. The right wing politicians you defend not only employ illegal workers they also help keep wages at places like Walmart low and they stick taxpayers like you with the bill for social services for those low wage earners. They laugh at you behind your back and distract you with divisive hate speech so you won't see what they're really up to.
1
Listening to the phrase "doesn't love his country" over and over instead of "don't agree with his policies" or "I think he is making mistakes" smacks of infantilism-pouting and lashing out like a child not given his way. To speak with such disrespect to a Prez Obama is self-indulgent to the extreme. Giuliani needs to have his mouth washed out with soap.
3
We could have allowed slavery to continue but we did not and a million soldiers died. We could have allowed all of our lands to go under the shovel but we did not and our national parks were formed. We could have allowed the elderly and disabled to continue in absolute poverty but we did not and social security and Medicare were formed. Likewise women were given the vote and our colleges mushroomed. Civil rights and the welfare of children are acknowledged. We vote for a black President which would have been impossible until recently.
This country knows deep down what we need to do for ourselves if we allow ourselves to go beyond bigotry and miserly actions. Open heartedness and caring for all our citizens is the bedrock of our love for this country and I I do not find Mr. Guiliani''s race bating small minded comments any where near expressing this love for country.
This country knows deep down what we need to do for ourselves if we allow ourselves to go beyond bigotry and miserly actions. Open heartedness and caring for all our citizens is the bedrock of our love for this country and I I do not find Mr. Guiliani''s race bating small minded comments any where near expressing this love for country.
12
American exceptionalism is really white male exceptionalism from what I see. I used to think it was just machismo, but now I think is comes from fear of loss of privilege.
9
American exceptionalism was very real in the early days of the republic. The U.S. had the first government based on Enlightenment ideas, and the break with monarchical Europe provided the impetus to make the republic work.
Since then a lot - a lot - has happened, and American exceptionalism has become nothing more than "la la, I can't hear you."
Since then a lot - a lot - has happened, and American exceptionalism has become nothing more than "la la, I can't hear you."
One significant different between a dictatorship and a democracy is that in the former, all criticism of the nation is disloyal. In the latter, criticism is a form of currency – and has no value without use.
When our presidents acknowledge our successes (as they are apt to do), but not our failings, that currency is worthless.
When our presidents acknowledge our successes (as they are apt to do), but not our failings, that currency is worthless.
7
Thank you Mr. Blow for articulating the need to hold ourselves in the light of truth. We all, individually, as well as collectively, have our beauty and our blemish.
Just as our nation is encouraged by our constitution to strive for "a more perfect union," we need to do that personally. How do we do that? We could start by questioning the belief that we need to be "above others" or "above other nations." What is the need we have to always tell ourselves "we are the greatest nation on earth?" I long for us to have humility, to stand with nations, with our fellow human beings. Imagine how much we could learn from each other, how much further we could travel toward "a more perfect union." That to me is love of self, love of country, love of the world.
Just as our nation is encouraged by our constitution to strive for "a more perfect union," we need to do that personally. How do we do that? We could start by questioning the belief that we need to be "above others" or "above other nations." What is the need we have to always tell ourselves "we are the greatest nation on earth?" I long for us to have humility, to stand with nations, with our fellow human beings. Imagine how much we could learn from each other, how much further we could travel toward "a more perfect union." That to me is love of self, love of country, love of the world.
4
One of my favorite memories of President Obama was the moment he took to look out at the people who attended his second inauguration. You could tell that he had a deep affection and respect for the people gathered there.
This President has fought hard to keep all Americans safe and well, to provide them with health care, education, a living wage..... He's fought to give all of us this, even those people who spewed venom at him and his family, the people who talked about wishing him dead, the people who tried to thwart his efforts.
How many people could meet the kind of hatred he's faced with the kind of dignity, kindness and compassion that he has shown?
This President has fought hard to keep all Americans safe and well, to provide them with health care, education, a living wage..... He's fought to give all of us this, even those people who spewed venom at him and his family, the people who talked about wishing him dead, the people who tried to thwart his efforts.
How many people could meet the kind of hatred he's faced with the kind of dignity, kindness and compassion that he has shown?
4
American exceptionalism: Really?
The US infrastructure is old, inefficient and crumbling.
Our schools are being underfunded and resources directed to private charter schools so right-wing ideologies can create a corporate/education complex to their liking!
In the richest economy in the world, we have some of the highest child poverty rates in the industrialized west!
We have the most expensive healthcare in the world without producing the best results.
We have political candidates who sound like they are running for bishop of one cult or another and who deny biology, evolution and science in general.
We have a Republican Supreme Court that has decided to allow the billionaires and their bottom feeding lobbyists, to hijack our elections thereby shutting out the voices of the 99%! Then they have the nerve to call it "free speech" that is protected by the constitution!
I just don't see "exceptionalism" when I compare the USA to other democratic societies in the world.
The US infrastructure is old, inefficient and crumbling.
Our schools are being underfunded and resources directed to private charter schools so right-wing ideologies can create a corporate/education complex to their liking!
In the richest economy in the world, we have some of the highest child poverty rates in the industrialized west!
We have the most expensive healthcare in the world without producing the best results.
We have political candidates who sound like they are running for bishop of one cult or another and who deny biology, evolution and science in general.
We have a Republican Supreme Court that has decided to allow the billionaires and their bottom feeding lobbyists, to hijack our elections thereby shutting out the voices of the 99%! Then they have the nerve to call it "free speech" that is protected by the constitution!
I just don't see "exceptionalism" when I compare the USA to other democratic societies in the world.
7
HOW SOON WE FORGET. Anybody want to go back to the good old days when "W" was Pres. and the Repubs were in control? How was the economy? How many wars were started? re we better off today?
Get real. Talking about who loves what more is not a helpful topic for American citizens today.
Get real. Talking about who loves what more is not a helpful topic for American citizens today.
3
If Obama loved America, then why does he want to completely change it?
2
Let's say it once and for all" the United States is no more exceptional than a good many other countries in the world. It certainly isn't more exceptional by a long shot than Norway, say, or even tiny Iceland. This exceptionalism that Americans have been brainwashed to believe almost from birth is absolutely false. Oh, and one more thing: exceptional in my dictionary reads as "unusual." This I can live with as far as America is concerned--Dubbya as President, a Congress that is bought and paid for by billionaires and a former big-city mayor who moved his mistress into his home while his wife was still living there. Yes, that's exceptional.
3
RG was preaching to his wealthy, white Republican male choir. Whistling, actually. We all know what he was doing. He was asserting the self-perceived "right" of the group to be the leaders. He wasn't expecting to be caught, just as Romney wasn't expecting the world to hear the 47% speech. These men don't love anything at all. They use America to promote themselves and their ever-growing bank accounts, just as RG uses women in his life, just as their benefactors use the earth to the point of death to sqeeze out more and more profit. There isn't one whit of love in any of them.
6
"There isn't one whit of love in them."
Except maybe for each other. To them, these masters of the universe are the only real people.
Except maybe for each other. To them, these masters of the universe are the only real people.
No need to get excited. Fear and selfishness can do bad things to people, and in their fear and selfishness those people can say and do hurtful things . But it is one of the strengths of America that we continue to get along all right, even with Giuliani has-beens scattered all over the nation. The southern states in particuliar are little more than a collection of confederate left-overs.
2
Exceptional? OK, so here is a math problem for you. How many of the "citizens of the world" here in this country have given up their citizenship and moved to another country to live and obtain citizenship in their new homeland versus how many others in the world have moved here?
1
Let's see --- I was born in New York as were my parents. I haven't lived in the US for 20 years. People didn't belive me when I said I was a political refugee when first I expatriated. Then there was Bush...
1
Something for Liberals to ponder...why is it that this President's action, attitude, words and policies evoke so many of these types of reactions? Now, most will simply regurgitate that "its because he black." While there are certainly some who dislike this President because of his race, I would submit that most who speak out against him not concerned with the color of his skin, but rather the contents of his heart. One does not fundamentally transform something they love, they do not seek to divide the Nation and then demonize those who would disagree, they do not go around hat in hand apologizing for looking out for the Nation's interests, they do not allow chaos and danger to spread while "leading" from behind...or playing golf. So, Libs, take a look at who you are defending and why he evokes such sentiments.
2
Dear G3,
I can't disagree more with the notion that "one does not fundamentally transform something that they love". I presume you have never been a parent, guiding the long-term development from diapered infant to productive adult. I presume you have never built a business from an idea and ambition to an economic entity supporting the families of workers. There are other every day examples of love and effort seeing what can and must be improved in the object of love, and striving to make that change.
I can't disagree more with the notion that "one does not fundamentally transform something that they love". I presume you have never been a parent, guiding the long-term development from diapered infant to productive adult. I presume you have never built a business from an idea and ambition to an economic entity supporting the families of workers. There are other every day examples of love and effort seeing what can and must be improved in the object of love, and striving to make that change.
2
Republicans never stop talking about how evil government is. They insist on demonizing people of color, women, gay people, poor people. They want to designate groups of people as unworthy to vote, to get married, to serve in the military. Does that sound like love to you?
2
president lincoln didn't love his country? FDR? Ronald Reagan? really?
Why is it that everyone wants to come to America and work and live? I don't see very many people relocating out of America. I'll answer my own question,
America is the greatest country on the face of the earth, warts and all. I shudder to think what the world would be like if we did not exist.
America is the greatest country on the face of the earth, warts and all. I shudder to think what the world would be like if we did not exist.
2
President Obama's relationship with America is like a bad marriage: "I love you, but I need you to change for me."
3
if we must use that analogy, isn't it more like obama saying, i love you, honey, but you need to put your socks in the hamper?"
1
A good marriage is one where each partner brings out the best in each other and both partners strive to improve themselves and their relationship. Telling someone they're perfect isn't love it's delusion and that's not good for any relationship. Good marriages take work.
2
American exceptionalism is more than a subjective sense of our standing in the world or a comparison of our government and its institutions to others. However, more recently it has become a rationale for claiming that as we stand above other nations, we also stand above international law.
Despite our role in creating the Nuremberg principles, despite our founding of the United Nations and its Charter and despite our contribution to international human rights law, we now claim exemption from its core principles.
How else could we justify Guantanamo? How could we justify "preemptive war"? How could we have treated POW's the way we did at Abu Grab? How could we have killed thousands of civilians in Faluja and continue to kill the innocent and call them collateral damage with our drones if we had not twisted this notion of American exceptionalism into its present grotesque form?
There is nothing wrong with being a nation among nations when it comes to principles of peace, human rights and the rule of law. What would truly be exceptional is if we really lived by those values. That's an exceptionalism that I would embrace.
Despite our role in creating the Nuremberg principles, despite our founding of the United Nations and its Charter and despite our contribution to international human rights law, we now claim exemption from its core principles.
How else could we justify Guantanamo? How could we justify "preemptive war"? How could we have treated POW's the way we did at Abu Grab? How could we have killed thousands of civilians in Faluja and continue to kill the innocent and call them collateral damage with our drones if we had not twisted this notion of American exceptionalism into its present grotesque form?
There is nothing wrong with being a nation among nations when it comes to principles of peace, human rights and the rule of law. What would truly be exceptional is if we really lived by those values. That's an exceptionalism that I would embrace.
3
Guiliani wants to perpetuate dysfunction in America--a dysfunction that enables him and his ilk to maintain voice and power. Similar to a family that cannot analyze it's faults because the power source controls the culture, "America's Mayor" desperately wants to support the vision of the America stuck in his head, not the realities on the ground that Obama sees clearly and is attempting to manage, adapt to, and change. Guiliani stands guard protecting a 1950s America, the America he is alluding to at the Walker rally. The America he grew up through. The GOP "family" dysfunction will not look inward because it will challenge core values that might force it to change. It may be that Rudy is too stuck, a stalwart of the old guard, unable to evolve. Obama, as an agent of change, as an agent of positive American growth, must deal with ugly old guard backlash like Giuliani's. In a way, Giuliani's statement is a revelation, an exclamation point on years of GOP obstruction and dysfunction. Hopefully, this glaring light on the warts of the GOP will reveal a need for it to make a change in values, and evolve. We are still waiting for the agent of change within the GOP to instigate that evolution.
I am no Rudy fan. He has always seemed a bit like a spotlight chaser. Though I suppose that's required for all pols. I really think the outrage on the left by his comments is manufactured. The president was not raised like me or most the rest of the country, left or right. Although less rare than it once was, it's still unusual to be raised by grandparents. When he was being raised by his mother it was in the home of an openly socialist step-father in a Muslim country. Very very few Americans can look back on that type of upbringing. It's also not a shocker that Rudy does not think the president loves him or a group of right wing contributors. The president is pretty open about his distain for people who do not share his desire to fundamentally change America. They don't love the president either. It's also not a big shock that nearly have the nation questions whether the president loves this country is not at all surprising . He ran on fundamentally changing the country. You don't seek to fundamentally change something you love. Right or wrong he sees the nation very negatively and in need of fundamental change. He also does not share the ideals of individual liberty that had been the founding principle of the nation. One can make a reasonable argument that our society has changed and grown to the point interdependence undermining individual liberty. The American that exists or existed and Obama hopes to create the America he will love.
3
Only if a country is divided on itself can the politics of hate and fear flourish. Willingly or unwillingly, the former mayor of New York is a spearchucker in that political battle. His recent remarks are simply another small and insignificant wave hitting an already cluttered beach.
Underlying all this are two tenets of the right - misogyny and racism. President Obama can't love America and American exceptionalism because he is biracial. That by definition disqualifies him from holding his high office, at least in some people's minds.
American exceptionalism is a faint cultural memory of a time when we geared up as a country and put our shoulder into defeating Germany and Japan. With the Russians and Brits, we saved the West from fascism. That was something we'd never done before, and it was, to use the Brit's phrase, "brilliant."
Since that time a perfect storm of political and economic circumstances gave rise to an unimpeachable oligarchy of .1%ers who own America's political system and its economy. The 99%ers are their prey. Recent examples of this are PayDay Loans, and marginal credit car loans, bundled and sold on Wall Street.
So the right's propaganda is nothing more than a misdirect. They want us talking about anything other than the obvious.
Which is we've got to find a way to tax the wealthy, their companies. and rebuild our middle class by creating good paying, long lasting jobs that build communities where everyone prospers.
Underlying all this are two tenets of the right - misogyny and racism. President Obama can't love America and American exceptionalism because he is biracial. That by definition disqualifies him from holding his high office, at least in some people's minds.
American exceptionalism is a faint cultural memory of a time when we geared up as a country and put our shoulder into defeating Germany and Japan. With the Russians and Brits, we saved the West from fascism. That was something we'd never done before, and it was, to use the Brit's phrase, "brilliant."
Since that time a perfect storm of political and economic circumstances gave rise to an unimpeachable oligarchy of .1%ers who own America's political system and its economy. The 99%ers are their prey. Recent examples of this are PayDay Loans, and marginal credit car loans, bundled and sold on Wall Street.
So the right's propaganda is nothing more than a misdirect. They want us talking about anything other than the obvious.
Which is we've got to find a way to tax the wealthy, their companies. and rebuild our middle class by creating good paying, long lasting jobs that build communities where everyone prospers.
2
When a comment starts with the"right is all racists and mysoginists" you might as wll stop reading. It is so easy for someone to dismiss any critiques of the President in that way. That way the left can avoid thinking about the issues. It stops the thinking of the effect on inner city unemployed African Americans when you have unlimited immigration of low skilled workers. it stops the discussion of the effect of entitlement thinking and how best can people be trained and incentivised to work and that how truly needy be afforded certain basic needs. Trust me the issue of racism in politics will suddenly become the effect of misogeny if Hilary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren.
Giuliani, Scott, Cruz, Issa, Jindal and others of their ilk have nothing to say so they take cheap shots. They can not grasp the reality that in face their united effort President Obama has basically delivered what he had promised. GOP defines loving in terms of bullying other nations. Their love of America means sending our loved ones to wasteful and useless wars and ignore when the wounded and the damaged young men and women return from those adventures.
These rants demonstrate the smallness and lack intellect of these men. These comments represent their frustration with a pragmatic President who sees the changing world where US can not be the master of the universe. That is not acceptable to the military-industrial complex agents.
We pretend to have an exceptional justice system but in reality it is only for those who can afford it. The recent panhandling by the perspective presidential candidates demonstrates our exceptional democracy that is on the auction block. Other democracies fair much better where elected leaders do not face the stress placed by the opposition in their effort to govern. Opposition in the US is exceptional in that it strives to undermine the President in his effort to fulfill the promises he made during the elections.
These rants demonstrate the smallness and lack intellect of these men. These comments represent their frustration with a pragmatic President who sees the changing world where US can not be the master of the universe. That is not acceptable to the military-industrial complex agents.
We pretend to have an exceptional justice system but in reality it is only for those who can afford it. The recent panhandling by the perspective presidential candidates demonstrates our exceptional democracy that is on the auction block. Other democracies fair much better where elected leaders do not face the stress placed by the opposition in their effort to govern. Opposition in the US is exceptional in that it strives to undermine the President in his effort to fulfill the promises he made during the elections.
6
I bet you and many on this board were part of the "Dissent is patriotic" crowd when George Bush was in office.
As I recall LBJ sent several hundred thousand American men into a wasteless, useless war.
"Exceptionalism" has emerged as a kind of new loyalty oath, a test of who is a "real American" and who is some sort of pretender. Debating who is a true believer is a kind of insanity, in large part because those who believe in this creed don't define what they mean, the better to use the muddled idea as a point of attack rather than including others. I am concerned, also, that lurking in the background is some half baked religiously oriented idea that America was created to correct the world, to set it straight, and that we should all celebrate this grand potential.
That we are an exceptional nation when considered in the context of world history is beyond debate. We were the first to be founded with the thinking of European philosophers, like John Locke, entirely in mind, with the ideals of universal participation in social and political life committed to written form. (Yes, I am aware of the blind spots, but the documents so created required progress from the early, gaping omissions) The fact that this nation was founded on such principles was a matter of good fortune: we were a new nation and thus did not have to cut through old practices to establish human rights against long established practices.
President Obama evidently represents a huge threat to a major portion of the population who see him as part of a new era where they are no longer dominant. He is also a great opportunity for attack that Giuliani, and many others, simply can't resist.
http://terryreport.com
That we are an exceptional nation when considered in the context of world history is beyond debate. We were the first to be founded with the thinking of European philosophers, like John Locke, entirely in mind, with the ideals of universal participation in social and political life committed to written form. (Yes, I am aware of the blind spots, but the documents so created required progress from the early, gaping omissions) The fact that this nation was founded on such principles was a matter of good fortune: we were a new nation and thus did not have to cut through old practices to establish human rights against long established practices.
President Obama evidently represents a huge threat to a major portion of the population who see him as part of a new era where they are no longer dominant. He is also a great opportunity for attack that Giuliani, and many others, simply can't resist.
http://terryreport.com
8
No President in modern history has endured the irrational opposition of Congress that President Obama has endured. It has been unhealthy, unpatriotic, and unrealistic. That said, there has simultaneously been a (somewhat, not always) invisible opposition force made up of people like the Koch Brothers who spend millions on their arrogant and evil plans to tar and feather the President. In addition to the more-visible Koch Brothers are the figures like Giuliani who, while currently holding no public office, nonetheless still wield influence and words. And those words are poisonous and for the past roughly six years have contributed to an ugly opposition not based on policy and progress but on a narrow-minded, mean-spirited politics of exclusivity. We count up the members of Congress, but how many Giulianis are there among us? Not all are outed by reporters, not all enjoyed fifteen minutes of fame. But they are there, daily spewing similar remarks that, like Giuliani's, are based not on facts (how does one identify and measure another's love?) but on the rhetoric of personal attack. If there is a silver lining to this shamelessness, it will be that Giuliani's hateful words will motivate voters to pay more attention and demand greater integrity which, given the current Congress, should be easily attainable.
4
I guessed you missed the last eight years W was president and actually being called unpatriotic by the current president. Nice try though.
1
A country resembles an organism. It exists in varying states of health.
Some things we do better than any other country on the planet. Other things, we do worse. And addressing some of those "other things"—like universal health care, wage equality, etc.—are vital to our long-term success. A doctor would be pleased in some ways, concerned in others.
It's my true belief that President Obama wants to acknowledge those weaknesses and address them. He's the doctor you want: clear-eyed, compassionate, and corrective.
Giuliani is the doctor who slaps you on the back and tells you you're perfect, just the way you are—never mind a paunch here, some shortness of breath there.
Only one of those doctors does his subject any good—and it's not the one whose primary goal is to get out of the office early ... or, in Giuliani's case, placate the millions of voters who demand to be told that they're perfect, just the way they are.
Some things we do better than any other country on the planet. Other things, we do worse. And addressing some of those "other things"—like universal health care, wage equality, etc.—are vital to our long-term success. A doctor would be pleased in some ways, concerned in others.
It's my true belief that President Obama wants to acknowledge those weaknesses and address them. He's the doctor you want: clear-eyed, compassionate, and corrective.
Giuliani is the doctor who slaps you on the back and tells you you're perfect, just the way you are—never mind a paunch here, some shortness of breath there.
Only one of those doctors does his subject any good—and it's not the one whose primary goal is to get out of the office early ... or, in Giuliani's case, placate the millions of voters who demand to be told that they're perfect, just the way they are.
3
Indeed, Mr. Obama did not grow up in the same way as Mr. Guliani - Mr. Obama had the "privilege" of growing up black with an absentee father.
As to the "love" of country, surely we've struck bottom on the list of things we can use to find fault with this man. The essence of this nation is not in that it tolerates only fawning jingoists. The essence of our nation is the freedom to stand and voice objection without fear of oppression. That is the exceptional part of our nation. Otherwise, we're weak on healthcare, weak on education, weak on environment, weak on equality, and our record of propping up dictators to secure oil flow has led to gross injustices around the world. Still, I believe we're a generally good people and given the right leadership (that means a government, a Congress, driven to do the right things, rather than driven by a political desire to demonize a man, a party, or work to support its wealthy contributors) that we can be a shining beacon for a world so desperately in need of one.
As to the "love" of country, surely we've struck bottom on the list of things we can use to find fault with this man. The essence of this nation is not in that it tolerates only fawning jingoists. The essence of our nation is the freedom to stand and voice objection without fear of oppression. That is the exceptional part of our nation. Otherwise, we're weak on healthcare, weak on education, weak on environment, weak on equality, and our record of propping up dictators to secure oil flow has led to gross injustices around the world. Still, I believe we're a generally good people and given the right leadership (that means a government, a Congress, driven to do the right things, rather than driven by a political desire to demonize a man, a party, or work to support its wealthy contributors) that we can be a shining beacon for a world so desperately in need of one.
1
The concept of American exceptionalism is aspirational--to create an ever expanding democracy, to nurture thinkers, dreamers, and tinkerers, to provide opportunity for all, to wield our extraordinary power with care; and to do all of this united, as one people. Thomas Paine eloquently summed it up--"we have it in our power to begin the world again." Not since FDR summoned us to the New Deal and John Kennedy challenged us to embrace a New Frontier has a President spoken so passionately about America's future. Rudolph Giuliani's comments about the President were offensive, but at least they consisted of more than a noun, a verb, and 9/11.
3
Wonderful sounding words and phrases,, but seldom practiced I`m afraid. The Old Soviet Union had just as wonderful sounding Constitution as that of the USA and we know how that went.
Words and phrases are cheap, they have no bearing on the actual actions of the US in the world, not now, not ever. One only has to look at the historical record both abroad and at home over the past 60 years, to be jerked back to reality. The USA is no Shining City On a Hill. There are more apt discriptions that come to mind.
Words and phrases are cheap, they have no bearing on the actual actions of the US in the world, not now, not ever. One only has to look at the historical record both abroad and at home over the past 60 years, to be jerked back to reality. The USA is no Shining City On a Hill. There are more apt discriptions that come to mind.
"America's Mayor" writes today in the Wall Street Journal that his comments about the President not loving his country were appropriate because it is the President's job to advertise and defend the country's reputation as, "...the one country with an unequaled record of promoting and protecting human freedom..." . Mr Guliani and those of his ilk must be totally ignorant of our history. Yes, Lincoln wrote of the cause of freedom that America was, "... the last best hope of earth.", but let us remember the context: he was explaining why he was emancipating the slaves in those states in rebellion. It took the death of almost three-quarters of a million Americans in order that this bastion of freedom could end the unspeakable horrors of that "peculiar institution". We might also consider such Nobel endeavors as the extermination of the American Indian and the internment of Japanese Americans as we lay claim to that unequaled record of promoting and protecting human freedom.
I love my country, I also love truth.
I love my country, I also love truth.
6
I believe in an American exceptionalism, but not in the "my country, right or wrong" way that but in the way John Winthrop described it. We are a city upon a hill, and when we do wrong, and others (and many among ourselves) expect us to do right, the eyes of the world are upon us, and they let us know when we fall short. It's our general ability to engage in dissent that makes us exceptional in a historic sense. Apparently that's not something Giuliani understands.
6
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -Carl Schurz, Union Army General in the Civil War and US Senator
“...Chesterton famously quipped: 'My country, right or wrong is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying: My mother, drunk or sober.' Well, yes, but she is your mother, drunk or sober, right? Similarly, it is your country, whether your country is right or wrong. The question is what that entails. If your mother is a drunk, and begs for another drink, are you obliged to give it to her? Presumably not.” -Megan McArdle in THE ATLANTIC 22 March 2012
“...Chesterton famously quipped: 'My country, right or wrong is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying: My mother, drunk or sober.' Well, yes, but she is your mother, drunk or sober, right? Similarly, it is your country, whether your country is right or wrong. The question is what that entails. If your mother is a drunk, and begs for another drink, are you obliged to give it to her? Presumably not.” -Megan McArdle in THE ATLANTIC 22 March 2012
4
The Conservative base of the GOP should officially be referred to, as "Regressives." They loathe "change," even if they're not smart enough to realize or understand that it's intended to be in their best interests.
As for Rudy Giuliani, his jingoistic rants continue to turn him from "America's Mayor" ( a term which any New Yorker worth their salt, would disagree with; but, I digress) to an irrelevant hack.
As for Rudy Giuliani, his jingoistic rants continue to turn him from "America's Mayor" ( a term which any New Yorker worth their salt, would disagree with; but, I digress) to an irrelevant hack.
3
One sign of maturity is the ability to recognize our own weaknesses along with the strengths, to say I made a mistake and I need to correct it. Or to say I am never going to look like a movie star but I can live with that. It's something we teach oour children, to acknowledge a mistake and realize it's not a condemnation but an opportunity to learn to be a better person. We still love the child.
So, I think Pres. Obama is a hell of lot more mature than RG and several other Republican leaders and several commentors.
So, I think Pres. Obama is a hell of lot more mature than RG and several other Republican leaders and several commentors.
6
"...a love of the idea of America."
"Love" is not a word I use easily or often--I honestly have no emotional appreciation of what the word means. So, I'll use a word I can more readily use: "respect." I respect what America used to be and what it sometimes remains. I do not respect what Obama and the left want "fundamentally transform" the country into.
The people of the America I can respect take pride in themselves. They'd never beg. The people of the America I can respect rely on their own abilities. They don't depend on government to feed them, house them, or clothe them. They're assets to society; they're not burdens on society.
But the America Obama and the Left seem to cherish is a society of helpless beggars devoid of pride, integrity, and self-respect. Obama and the Left actively seek to punish those who refuse to be dependent on government, those who refuse to see government as the Mecca of their lives.
I may not know for sure what "love" is; I do know for sure that I despise what Obama wants to make of this country.
"Love" is not a word I use easily or often--I honestly have no emotional appreciation of what the word means. So, I'll use a word I can more readily use: "respect." I respect what America used to be and what it sometimes remains. I do not respect what Obama and the left want "fundamentally transform" the country into.
The people of the America I can respect take pride in themselves. They'd never beg. The people of the America I can respect rely on their own abilities. They don't depend on government to feed them, house them, or clothe them. They're assets to society; they're not burdens on society.
But the America Obama and the Left seem to cherish is a society of helpless beggars devoid of pride, integrity, and self-respect. Obama and the Left actively seek to punish those who refuse to be dependent on government, those who refuse to see government as the Mecca of their lives.
I may not know for sure what "love" is; I do know for sure that I despise what Obama wants to make of this country.
I live near Yosemite Park we have a lot of folks who see the world as you do full of self reliance and small government nonsense. But along comes the Rim Fire and all of a sudden it's, "thank you, fire fighters" paid for by the State of California and the Federal Government. Seems our local local "pride, and self-reliance," needed fire retardant dropped by bombers to keep our communities and private property from burning to the ground.
And we're represented by a like-thinking Congressman, McClintock who talks individualism though he's owned by the Koch Brothers. Mr. Small Government but as our region moves into it fourth year of drought he's in Congress demanding we build damns and raise reservoirs, a big government answer with Uncle Sam paying the tab. Of course, it's the water were lacking not the storage. But he's all for small government for the poorest among us.
And of course, he has been lying to the people of our district for years about Global Warming which is in part the reason for all the fires and drought. He's such an independent thinker that he doesn't need to heed climate science especially when it requires taxes and regulation to confront. Seems, the Koch's, the real patriots, make too much money polluting. But our beloved America is being driven by your ideology of self adulation into a human catastrophe. Will you respect what we have done, then? And of course you'll expect big government to fix it for you, trouble is it will be too late to cooperate then.
And we're represented by a like-thinking Congressman, McClintock who talks individualism though he's owned by the Koch Brothers. Mr. Small Government but as our region moves into it fourth year of drought he's in Congress demanding we build damns and raise reservoirs, a big government answer with Uncle Sam paying the tab. Of course, it's the water were lacking not the storage. But he's all for small government for the poorest among us.
And of course, he has been lying to the people of our district for years about Global Warming which is in part the reason for all the fires and drought. He's such an independent thinker that he doesn't need to heed climate science especially when it requires taxes and regulation to confront. Seems, the Koch's, the real patriots, make too much money polluting. But our beloved America is being driven by your ideology of self adulation into a human catastrophe. Will you respect what we have done, then? And of course you'll expect big government to fix it for you, trouble is it will be too late to cooperate then.
So much of our collective delusion about America needs to be seen in the bright light of day.
Rudy is a little man with petty notions and very bad manners. In some sense we need him to goad our better selves.
Rudy is a little man with petty notions and very bad manners. In some sense we need him to goad our better selves.
4
Please enlighten us G? If there is a better country then by all means head off to it. According to people like you and Obama, Russia and Cuba would be models of excellence.
This country has engaged in almost perpetual war since it was founded, more so than any other country. One must also consider slavery which ended only after a war killing hundreds of thousands. Then followed a century of jim crow and lynchings. Along the way Native Americans were subjected to genocide and the theft of their land. Now comes a gun in every hand and school. Keep those children from coming to this country. Truly exceptional.
2
Giuliani's statement about Obama is foolhardy on two levels.
1). Where is his evidence that Obama does not love America? Just because he supports policies that Giuliani thinks are contrary to the public interest? Bad policy can be motivated by good intentions.
2). This also shows Giuliani "thinking like a progressive". A focus on SENTIMENT rather than POLICY. For example. progressives tend to support lax immigration policies out of compassion for illegal aliens. They simply shut out any rational thought as to what the broader implications are of those policies on the interest of workers and the long-term health of our economy and environment.
Criticism of bad policies by Democrats needs to be based on reasoned debate of the pros and cons, not by questioning the motivation of those who espouse them.
1). Where is his evidence that Obama does not love America? Just because he supports policies that Giuliani thinks are contrary to the public interest? Bad policy can be motivated by good intentions.
2). This also shows Giuliani "thinking like a progressive". A focus on SENTIMENT rather than POLICY. For example. progressives tend to support lax immigration policies out of compassion for illegal aliens. They simply shut out any rational thought as to what the broader implications are of those policies on the interest of workers and the long-term health of our economy and environment.
Criticism of bad policies by Democrats needs to be based on reasoned debate of the pros and cons, not by questioning the motivation of those who espouse them.
the usa wasn't perfect in the early 1800s , so the laws of the land and the constitution were amended. In the 1860s, the country waqs so imperfect that we were forced to fight a war with ourselves to correct some of the errors. again, in the early 1900s there were such problems regarding freedoms and capitalism that there were great protests and changing of the laws and constitution to make america better. In the 1960s, we forced to become aware that our problems with race had still not been settled, that equal but separate was a false option. again, legal changes, constitutional changes. and so on and so on, only NOW apparently we are perfect, and any talk of our failures , or things we still need to make better are the talk of those who don't love their country, not like you and I. Something tells me that at each step of the way blowhards like Giuliani were claiming each reformer didn't love his country enough, yet history has shown that in retrospect we view those who spoke out and created change as our national heroes. oh well, i guess its better than hearing him talk about September the 11th again.
10
Giuliani's comments have convinced me that preschoolers have more maturity than politicians, past and present.
5
ALL politicians love America. It's DEMOCRACY they can't stand or abide by, as evidenced by selling it out every which way but Sunday and subverting our Constitution.
2
Unconditional love ought not be equated with unconditional approval.
3
Giuliani has squandered the well-earned respect he once had for his admirable mayoral service. He has become a noisy crank who is only able to hold one idea at a time. It used to be "9/11," now it's "Obama is not an real American."
It is sad, but unless he has an undiagnosed neurological disorder, he has brought it on himself.
It is sad, but unless he has an undiagnosed neurological disorder, he has brought it on himself.
2
I am of the same generation as Giuliani, and many of the people I know do not share his singular view of patriotism--however vague his complaints. They protested the Viet Nam war and were fiercely critical of any number of national policies. They supported the Civil Rights Movement to push back against embedded white privilege. As you suggest, his accusations ring hollow for many.
Maybe we should pass a law, given our partisan divides, that the first born children in any family are not allowed to marry within the dominant party perspective of that family. OK, I am just kidding--sort of. But it does make one question how to deal with all the political inbreeding: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/opinion/how-did-politics-get-so-person... .
Maybe we should pass a law, given our partisan divides, that the first born children in any family are not allowed to marry within the dominant party perspective of that family. OK, I am just kidding--sort of. But it does make one question how to deal with all the political inbreeding: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/opinion/how-did-politics-get-so-person... .
While Mr. Blow has expressed well what love of country could mean, and perhaps should mean – kudos for that, by the way, what Rudy Giuliani has to say about it and the President is a completely faux issue maintained by the media and certain (frankly, fairly small) groups inhabiting dark corners of the Internet.
Debating whether Obama “loves America” moves us no closer to more employment, a growing economy, or less intrusive federal government (read: targeting political enemies and spying on its citizens); nor does it address whether legislating from the Oval Office is acceptable, even when a highly dysfunctional Congress cannot or will not legislate; or whether the words of a law mean what they say; or whether it’s appropriate for a federal agency to effectively suspend the civil rights of a specific, well-defined demographic; or a litany of other serious issues facing this nation and its people.
How our leaders respond to these and many more issues is how “love of country” may be best demonstrated. Currently, way too many in D.C. are showing America where their love really lies.
Debating whether Obama “loves America” moves us no closer to more employment, a growing economy, or less intrusive federal government (read: targeting political enemies and spying on its citizens); nor does it address whether legislating from the Oval Office is acceptable, even when a highly dysfunctional Congress cannot or will not legislate; or whether the words of a law mean what they say; or whether it’s appropriate for a federal agency to effectively suspend the civil rights of a specific, well-defined demographic; or a litany of other serious issues facing this nation and its people.
How our leaders respond to these and many more issues is how “love of country” may be best demonstrated. Currently, way too many in D.C. are showing America where their love really lies.
2
why are the same people who trumpet the importance of hard work to succeed enraged by those who say that the country needs to work to succeed? what ceo would not want clear eyed feedback to judge performance against goals, then make plans for improvement? america isn't great just because it is, but because so many people have used, and continue to use, our founding ideals to struggle to make it so.
5
Ad hominem attacks are a sign of losing the battle on ideas, and are generally fallacious. Partisan division, huge appetite for cameras and microphones, being quick rather than well-reasoned have become the traits of the political world; I'm afraid this is also more prevalent among the Republican politicians and their followers. The caliber of the political world has sunk to troublesome lows.
34
Re: the definition here of conservative as someone who tries to preserve. That does not apply to the Americans who have appropriated the term conservative. You don't conserve a system of separated powers by shutting the government down when you disagree with the president. You compromise. You don't preserve a system of separation of church and state by calling people who disagree with you on abortion "murderers." You don't preserve the economy of an advanced industrial country, America, by condemning Keynesian economic policy during a depression. You don't preserve the civility of American politics by putting out hate, such as Giuliani's statement that Obama doesn't love America. Etc. Etc. Conservative in America really means uprooting the constitutional separation of powers by hostage taking rather than compromising, destroying the civility of American politics, jeopardizing the economy. And the neoconservative policy of preemptive war everywhere has no history in the United States except the aberration of George W. Bush, who doesn't know enough history to conserve anything at all. All he conserved was the use of dirty tricks in campaigning, the tradition from Atwater to Rove.
23
The definition of "liberal" must be one who is given to ridiculous hyperbole.
JOK: hard to be confronted by the facts, eh? But it is overdue.
If you said that you loved your spouse but wanted to "fundamentally change" them, I would have a hard time believing that you really loved them. Giuliani perfectly summed up what many of us believe about this president. He is in love with some left wing utopian vision of America but he certainly has no love for America as it was in the past or is today. This is painfully obvious to most rational observers. Problem is, irrational folks get to vote too.
2
Problem is: such voters really believe they are Rational. This goes along with their stubborn, malicious, self-righteous, evangelistic, misleading, downright dishonest approach to political tactics, with a 1950s haircut. You, and yours, are full of sour condensed owl manure, and I'm looking forward to the upcoming explosion.
2
If you were married to your spouse for over 200 years I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't have both fundamentally changed. Our country is vastly different from what it was in 1776 in so many ways and many of them good. What Giuliani did perfectly sum up is what many of us think conservatives WANT America to look like and diversity is not part of that vision.
4
Here is a quote from President Obama:
Obama: I don't think we have to fundamentally transform the nation.
See
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/feb/06/what-barack-...
Now, JP, where did you get your misconception that Obama wants to "fundamentally change" America? And now, having realized that Obama doesn't want this, will you change your opinion?
Obama: I don't think we have to fundamentally transform the nation.
See
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/feb/06/what-barack-...
Now, JP, where did you get your misconception that Obama wants to "fundamentally change" America? And now, having realized that Obama doesn't want this, will you change your opinion?
4
Mr. Blow - You rhetorically ask "Does exceptionalism — if one accepts the premise — bestow exemption from critique?" The answer, of course, is no. However, in the president's case, it seems to many that his ongoing public (and worldwide) criticism of his country far exceeds his defense, or even praise. Mr. Giuliani's comments have touched a raw nerve precisely because for many, they ring true.
Again, I ask, where are these speeches he supposedly gives all over the world apologizing for America? Hey, if you could just come up with one quote not taken out of context where he says this, I'd like to see it.
Clinton ran on "I feel your pain." Republicans run on "I share your anger and resentment." The resentments are against the realities of the modern world. When someone fails to share these resentments Republicanism says "you don't love America."
And no, I surely don't love the current Ignoramus Party, or the diehard Confederates, or the crazed people who think that if they could just eliminate the Federal government every one of could be John Galt.
I was born here, and the answer to Giuliani is simple: stick it where the sun never shines. You don't own what it means to be American. Preaching stupidity is despicable, preaching hatred on top of it proves you have no message which can be persuasive on its own, so you resort to appeals to the worst of human emotions and behavior.
And no, I surely don't love the current Ignoramus Party, or the diehard Confederates, or the crazed people who think that if they could just eliminate the Federal government every one of could be John Galt.
I was born here, and the answer to Giuliani is simple: stick it where the sun never shines. You don't own what it means to be American. Preaching stupidity is despicable, preaching hatred on top of it proves you have no message which can be persuasive on its own, so you resort to appeals to the worst of human emotions and behavior.
17
Sounds like a "Republican platform" to me.
You do not persuade, Mr. Blow. Based upon nothing more than Obama's words, actions and associations, I too believe he disdains this nation. The fact you cite statistics which suggest he is not alone in his feelings only explains how he managed to win 2 elections. It doesn't stand as proof that he cares about this country. His wife and pastor of 20 years are on the record with their anti-American statements. Is there any reason to believe he is not infected with the same hateful perspective as them - particularly when judged in light of his own words and actions?
1
For years white people sat in pews in Churches which justified the owning of another person. Get real.
He "managed" to win two elections. Ah now we get the crux of what sticks in the right wing craw.
Furthermore for years we swallowed hook line and sinker how exceptional we were and that others did atrocious things. Except Snowden's revelations put paid to that and we also now live in a era where so much more is exposed about some of the deeds of this exceptional country.
Blind and willful obedience to propaganda - any propaganda is dangerous.
He "managed" to win two elections. Ah now we get the crux of what sticks in the right wing craw.
Furthermore for years we swallowed hook line and sinker how exceptional we were and that others did atrocious things. Except Snowden's revelations put paid to that and we also now live in a era where so much more is exposed about some of the deeds of this exceptional country.
Blind and willful obedience to propaganda - any propaganda is dangerous.
1
And yet you provide not one quote in support of any of your contentions.
Really? You sound as if Pres. Obama chose you personally to air his complaints about America. What exactly did he share with you? What did you tell him?
1
You state that conservatives and progressives differ as to whether they see America as a country sturggling to be maintained or striving to be made better. I would suggest that that has changed somewhat. More and more I , as a progressive, while still wanting to strive to make things better, see America as a country struggling to maintain what we have achieved -- social security, civil rights, tenure, workers' rights, voting rights, more affordable health care, etc. It seems to me conservatives who want to do away with all that are not looking to maintain what so many have worked long and hard for. They are looking to get rid of all that has been accomplished.
19
Rudy is right. America is exceptional but it is not perfect. One of its problems is producing a demagogic, war monger like himself.
11
"At the dinner — attended, according to Politico, by “about 60 right-leaning business executives and conservative media types”"
This crowd, very similar to the one that Mitt Romney made his now infamous 47% remarks to, does view America different than many. Their view of America is "why would anyone want to change any part of this country that has been so good to me?". The view of those that have benefited greatly (and often unfairly) from this system is logical.
What I find so interesting is the large number of Americans that aren't in the club of cronyism and privilege that also jump on this bandwagon. Yes - most of them are white which, I guess, gives them some sort of honorary membership. But, over and over, large groups of Americans are quick to toe the line of pathetic public figures that spew desperate rhetoric in an attempt to reclaim some relevance. The recent ramblings of Rudy, Palin, D'Souza, etc... are all so obviously mired in self hatred, self promotion, and stupidity it speaks volumes when an American that is "not in the club" aligns themselves with these figures instead of Obama.
This crowd, very similar to the one that Mitt Romney made his now infamous 47% remarks to, does view America different than many. Their view of America is "why would anyone want to change any part of this country that has been so good to me?". The view of those that have benefited greatly (and often unfairly) from this system is logical.
What I find so interesting is the large number of Americans that aren't in the club of cronyism and privilege that also jump on this bandwagon. Yes - most of them are white which, I guess, gives them some sort of honorary membership. But, over and over, large groups of Americans are quick to toe the line of pathetic public figures that spew desperate rhetoric in an attempt to reclaim some relevance. The recent ramblings of Rudy, Palin, D'Souza, etc... are all so obviously mired in self hatred, self promotion, and stupidity it speaks volumes when an American that is "not in the club" aligns themselves with these figures instead of Obama.
14
Giuliani said that in front of a conservative group and it shows the willingness of conservative leaders to be divisive. Perhaps, and sadly, it raises more money for them to be mean-spirited. Perhaps, this is what is behind their inability to compromise. To think that those disagreeing with their economic, business and military ideas are not American is just ridiculous. Stop the inflammatory talk, right wing. It's not good for the country.
7
The graphic says it all. The post-911 generation, now moving into their early 20s, see themselves as "world citizens" as much as "American citizens." This is an astonishing paradigm shift and much of the credit is due to YouTube and volunteer work visits in other countries. As soon as young people could communicate instantly with other young people around the world and see that that those others were much like them, the idea of American exceptionalism lost its punch. I believe that if the graphic drew a division between 18-22 and 23-29, the change would be even more striking.
145
A better question would be what criteria do we use to determine what loving your country entails. That is the real issue. Traditional folks see the things that the president says they realize that they would never even think of saying such. Simple!!
Good observations here about why conservative politics tends to see liberalism as not patriotic. But there is really something different (and worse) going on here. Guiliani's comments are part of the "othering" of Obama, the chorus of comments and themes that seek to present Obama as fundamentally different from other presidents (and thus from "us"). The key revealing manifestation of Obama as "other" was the insistence that he was literally inelligible for the presidency because he wasn't an American citizen (against all evidence). The views that he is Muslim or wants to be an "emperor" or "king" or is the product of socialist anti-colonialism are all in the same key. Obama's policies and positions are pretty standard liberal democratic fare (even a bit centrist). There are plenty of reasons conservatives might challenge and offer alternatives to his policies, but really only one reason to paint him as different in fundamental ways: racism.
11
Republican Brown Shirts do this because they have no ideas they can sell, that won't put them all out of business, except fear, exclusion, greed, impunity, and hatred.
1
America isn't perfect, and no one knows that better than We, the People.
The guarantees framed in the Constitution include freedom of speech, and in that freedom comes a certain responsibility to _keep_ America free. We get to criticize and carp openly about what We, the People, think are issues in our nation. We, the People, get to point out where we think the government goes wrong, and then, after yammering on and on and on about it, We, the People get to vote. Not every country can say that.
In our 239 (more or less) year history, we have not had a coup. We survived a civil war and came back as reunified nation. We have never missed a presidential election, and the nation seems to want to hang together. For how much longer? No one can answer that. But we didn't get this far by not "loving" our country.
Rudy Giuliani's ridiculous remarks speak only to people who cannot see what America really is: a home to a whole lotta different kinds of people who came to the startling conclusion this nation is worth saving.... for just that reason. It is our home.
Mr. Giuliani's time has passed. And hopefully, so have his ideas about what constitutes loving this country.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
The guarantees framed in the Constitution include freedom of speech, and in that freedom comes a certain responsibility to _keep_ America free. We get to criticize and carp openly about what We, the People, think are issues in our nation. We, the People, get to point out where we think the government goes wrong, and then, after yammering on and on and on about it, We, the People get to vote. Not every country can say that.
In our 239 (more or less) year history, we have not had a coup. We survived a civil war and came back as reunified nation. We have never missed a presidential election, and the nation seems to want to hang together. For how much longer? No one can answer that. But we didn't get this far by not "loving" our country.
Rudy Giuliani's ridiculous remarks speak only to people who cannot see what America really is: a home to a whole lotta different kinds of people who came to the startling conclusion this nation is worth saving.... for just that reason. It is our home.
Mr. Giuliani's time has passed. And hopefully, so have his ideas about what constitutes loving this country.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
115
Rudy, striving to regain relevance, gives "from the heart" speech to a bunch of high rollers at 21 and spends the next week in the media spin cycle. He is a fringe player, however, and will be back in his proper place at the distant edges of American memory in a fortnight.
The more interesting statements were not Rudy's but those of Jindal, Walker, Rubio, etc.
The more interesting statements were not Rudy's but those of Jindal, Walker, Rubio, etc.
4
Giuliani has a weaseling article in today's Wall Street Journal in which he essentially blames the media for reporting what he said rather than what he meant. Not even any regret for his own statements, let alone apology.
8
As a child of the 60's who grew up anti Vietnam War in NYC and told "Love it or leave it' I still shudder when i see an American Flag displayed on a car or a house; painfully remembering how the right wing appropriated our country's flag and labeled dissenters as unpatriotic. In doing so they reduced the broad symbolism of our flag to an instrument of propaganda.
. Mr. Guiliani's hate speech is a reminder to me of those times and his rhetoric recalls the beer halls of 1930's Germany. His virulence gives me pause.
. Mr. Guiliani's hate speech is a reminder to me of those times and his rhetoric recalls the beer halls of 1930's Germany. His virulence gives me pause.
12
I love my country, yet, I want it to learn to be better, from other countries that ARE doing it "better".
And, there are many who are doing it better than we are. Hiding behind this notion that it's "UnAmerican" to even suggest that we have anything to learn is asinine. This idea that ignorance is something that to proud of, just boggles my mind. Yet, that's exactly what the right is selling...
And, there are many who are doing it better than we are. Hiding behind this notion that it's "UnAmerican" to even suggest that we have anything to learn is asinine. This idea that ignorance is something that to proud of, just boggles my mind. Yet, that's exactly what the right is selling...
13
In 1863 Lincoln desegregated the White House staff, which initiated a desegregation of the federal government that lasted until Woodrow Wilson.
With Wilson we reverted back to institutionalizing racism. It gave cover and rise to the Ku Klux Klan and helped give root to cultural bigotry.
It's a haunting reminder that we can go backwards--progress is not an even nor guaranteed ascent.
Giuliani full comment was about a 'time'...presumedly a better time in the past where his type of 'love for America' was unquestioned. The ressurection of this mythical time is often at the heart of a conservative narrative that is convenientally pliable but, in the end, insidiously bigoted.
With Wilson we reverted back to institutionalizing racism. It gave cover and rise to the Ku Klux Klan and helped give root to cultural bigotry.
It's a haunting reminder that we can go backwards--progress is not an even nor guaranteed ascent.
Giuliani full comment was about a 'time'...presumedly a better time in the past where his type of 'love for America' was unquestioned. The ressurection of this mythical time is often at the heart of a conservative narrative that is convenientally pliable but, in the end, insidiously bigoted.
10
Yes it is a right and in some instances a duty to criticize our country and that extends to its leadership. Rudi's words were stupid; but whether our current president is a forceful enough US advocate on the world stage is fair game.
2
Mr. Blow, Thank you for highlighting Rudy Giuliani's destructive remarks about President Obama. It's far better to subject them to scrutiny than to sweep them under the rug. Yes, they are "old hat" by now, but none the less shocking. I question Giuliani's patriotism. His is an effort to deepen our racial divide rather than to work on repairing it. What could be more harmful to our country?
P.S. Giuliani must have a very short memory and/or a poor knowledge of history. It wasn't all that long ago that Italians in this country were subject to the same kind of bigotry that he is now displaying.
P.S. Giuliani must have a very short memory and/or a poor knowledge of history. It wasn't all that long ago that Italians in this country were subject to the same kind of bigotry that he is now displaying.
402
Like many Republicans, Giuliani seems to like to separate the "America" that he likes from the rest of the country. Consider Mike Huckabee's Bubbaville. For him, that is the real America--he doesn't want to understand or even consider those who don't fit into it. And yes, this type of conservative ideology does require historical myopia since it struggles to relive a past that never really was.
1
"What could be more harmful to our country?"
Oh, I don't know. Punishing those that dare criticize our Leaders?
Oh, I don't know. Punishing those that dare criticize our Leaders?
It seems to me that many who are quick to criticize or attack people for not being - or for being - "true Americans" forget that the definition of a true American, that is, an American citizen, is defined by the 14th Amendment and supporting federal law. Anyone who disputes this is disputing the fundamental law of the land. Yes, you may disagree with people, call into question the soundness of their beliefs, but to attack them as being, or to suggest that they are, somehow, "unAmerican" or "not a true American" is to fly in the face of our Constitution. Period.
5
Regarding the power of words--you, William Shelton, are most likely a Brazilian resident, and Brazil is just as much a part of "America" as we are. (In fact, illegal immigrants from central America escaping dangerous living conditions--aren't they Americans?
One of the numerous fallacies ascending in this country is our official name. We are growing less united than ever in these United States.
In fact, the 1/2 of 1% of us profiting by growing corruption of corporations also advocate quitting the UN, saying it represents a trend towards "world government." Heaven forbid we recognize the legitimacy of other countries' points of view.
From one American to another, I wish us both luck.
One of the numerous fallacies ascending in this country is our official name. We are growing less united than ever in these United States.
In fact, the 1/2 of 1% of us profiting by growing corruption of corporations also advocate quitting the UN, saying it represents a trend towards "world government." Heaven forbid we recognize the legitimacy of other countries' points of view.
From one American to another, I wish us both luck.
1
Beverly, your point on who are, indeed, "Americans" in the broadest sense is well taken. For your information, I am a United States citizen living in Brazil. In other words, "Nós somos todos americanos."
Have a good one.
Have a good one.
2
The concept of American exceptionalism is the worst thing about this country. It has led us to behave in ways that range from ridiculous to abhorrent. We need to go back to teaching civics and citizenship in our schools and the first lesson must be a true history of our nation, warts and all with an emphasis on the idea that we are not special, or better than anyone. Humility is sadly lacking in too much of our public discourse, which is ironic in a nation whose economic and political position of superpower rests securely on the twin pillars of the attempted genocide of native Americans and slavery.
As to Mr. Giuliani, he has finally descended to the realm of buffoonery. He may now take his well-earned place alongside our other national jokes: Palin, Trump, Bachman, Perry. I have to stop here. This list is too depressingly long.
As to Mr. Giuliani, he has finally descended to the realm of buffoonery. He may now take his well-earned place alongside our other national jokes: Palin, Trump, Bachman, Perry. I have to stop here. This list is too depressingly long.
12
The idea of being an American and living in a unified country is based on a simple fact that you are willing to sacrifice on behalf of your countrymen to protect them.
Now, nobody is asking that you die for them but something far more reasonable and prosaic - to experience a little bit of hardship to protect their well-being.
The most important objective for your neighbors is to have the jobs and secure source of income to feed their families.
The only way to accomplish that is by enforcing the balanced trade agreements and abandoning the free trade regime that has been draining our jobs, standard of living and national treasury all over the world.
The question is whether you are still an American.
Who still loves America here? Why don’t you vote for the parties that love and protect America too?
Now, nobody is asking that you die for them but something far more reasonable and prosaic - to experience a little bit of hardship to protect their well-being.
The most important objective for your neighbors is to have the jobs and secure source of income to feed their families.
The only way to accomplish that is by enforcing the balanced trade agreements and abandoning the free trade regime that has been draining our jobs, standard of living and national treasury all over the world.
The question is whether you are still an American.
Who still loves America here? Why don’t you vote for the parties that love and protect America too?
1
Well said and a very instructive column, Mr. Blow. As an older white American male I have been continually saddened and embarrassed by the way so many of my fellow Americans have mistreated and disrespected our president. But of course, I am not surprised. There are two facts that the Republicans can't stand. First that Mr. Obama is, in their view, a liberal. And second that he is a black man. There is no question that the Republican hostility is race tinged. And that is not surprising either. This is a country that has not been able to come to terms with its slave history and apartheid aftermath or the consequences of both. Until that occurs, if it ever does, I doubt that this country will be able to live up to its promise which is perhaps the greatest tragedy.
9
I think we (myself included) have given Rudy far more attention than he deserves for his ill-considered statement. From now on, anything he says should be met with crickets.
4
Giuliani, solipsistic and irrational, hurls cheap shots whenever possible., Blow is to be congratulated for making his points without any ad hominems.
4
Like Mr. Giuliani, I "was brought up through the love of this country." However, my parents, grandparents and even teachers only saw and praised what they liked: white, segregated, evangelical Christian, football obsessed, prayers before and at the end of every gathering, hand-picked history, military/war fanatics, gun collecting, gas guzzling American made pick-ups and cars, breaded and deep fried anything, and the worst of all-- suspicious and hateful of anyone, anything that did not look like them, talk like them, think like them, believe like them, teach like them. You get the picture.
Then I jumped at the opportunity to go to college on the other side of the country over forty years ago. To this day I am the only one on either side of the family to leave the South by choice. For the first time I met and befriended people that were so unlike my family and their friends. What a tremendous breath of fresh air! I have lived in four time zones and traveled around 47 states. I always encourage young people to get out there and explore this country through their eyes. Go to the places your family and friends might turn their nose up at just the mentioning of them. Expand your horizons and inhale, deeply the fresh air of diversity that is at the real core of this country and never look back.
The way you were raised as a child and the way you chose to live your life as an adult can be, should be completely different experiences. Burn the map, find YOUR path.
Then I jumped at the opportunity to go to college on the other side of the country over forty years ago. To this day I am the only one on either side of the family to leave the South by choice. For the first time I met and befriended people that were so unlike my family and their friends. What a tremendous breath of fresh air! I have lived in four time zones and traveled around 47 states. I always encourage young people to get out there and explore this country through their eyes. Go to the places your family and friends might turn their nose up at just the mentioning of them. Expand your horizons and inhale, deeply the fresh air of diversity that is at the real core of this country and never look back.
The way you were raised as a child and the way you chose to live your life as an adult can be, should be completely different experiences. Burn the map, find YOUR path.
8
Very, very well said. I've had the same experience except I'm from Indiana. There is hope. I've seen some of my great nieces and nephews making progress. Unfortunately, only some. The key is moving away, as you and I have done.
Ah, American exceptionalism again; the world won't rest until our ears are blocked with this word.
1
Mr. Oyesanya, perhaps you misunderstood my comment. "American exceptionalism" are not words I care to use or enforce. I do not rate the U.S. in general, nor any of its states or communities in particular, as better or worse than any other place-- that is completely subjective and personal-- it's allowing yourself to experience places, people and ideas that might just simply be different from what you know. For me, stepping away from the familiar is always exciting, educating, enlightening and keeps me mindful that I am of this world as whole, not just the place where I choose to live.
I would encourage anyone to not let their horizons end at any border. I would be fascinated to learn about what you see from your perspective.
I would encourage anyone to not let their horizons end at any border. I would be fascinated to learn about what you see from your perspective.
Mr. Blow,
It is unfortunate that you simplify the notions of conservatism and progressivism by the terms "preservation" and "alteration." Those appellations connote "stodgy" and "with it." Yes, this is sometimes the case, but it's important to note that principles underlie political principles. Many conservatives ground their thinking in a belief individual freedom and responsibility. Economically, this means limiting government, living within one's means, and relying upon incentives to bolster a market-driven economy, which, historically, has led to the most successful economy in history, with the greatest amount of wealth creation since the dawn of man. Many conservatives decry "alteration" in the way our country's leaders have relied upon these principles to insure the best prospects for the greatest number of Americans. Hillary Clinton herself said not too long ago that the deficit was the greatest threat to our country's military and we are seeing that prospect play out now. New spending for things like stimulus programs that do not have shovel-ready recipients, a hopelessly bureaucrat government-driven health care program that decreases individual freedom, crushes doctors, and smacks of cronyism (with drug companies), while failing to deliver cost reductions or tort reform, and free community college increase the deficit without specific goals (don't we want to reward math and science achievement in form of graduation) beyond "this would be nice to do."t it.
It is unfortunate that you simplify the notions of conservatism and progressivism by the terms "preservation" and "alteration." Those appellations connote "stodgy" and "with it." Yes, this is sometimes the case, but it's important to note that principles underlie political principles. Many conservatives ground their thinking in a belief individual freedom and responsibility. Economically, this means limiting government, living within one's means, and relying upon incentives to bolster a market-driven economy, which, historically, has led to the most successful economy in history, with the greatest amount of wealth creation since the dawn of man. Many conservatives decry "alteration" in the way our country's leaders have relied upon these principles to insure the best prospects for the greatest number of Americans. Hillary Clinton herself said not too long ago that the deficit was the greatest threat to our country's military and we are seeing that prospect play out now. New spending for things like stimulus programs that do not have shovel-ready recipients, a hopelessly bureaucrat government-driven health care program that decreases individual freedom, crushes doctors, and smacks of cronyism (with drug companies), while failing to deliver cost reductions or tort reform, and free community college increase the deficit without specific goals (don't we want to reward math and science achievement in form of graduation) beyond "this would be nice to do."t it.
1
" Hillary Clinton herself said not too long ago that the deficit was the greatest threat to our country's military and we are seeing that prospect play out now. "
You Conservatives complain about the deficit, but ignore the fact plain as day that the deficit explodes under Republicans and decreases under Democrats.
President Clinton inherited a deficit, and debt, yet, without a single Republican vote passed a budget in 1993 that led to decreasing deficits to the point that there even was a budget surplus, which began to pay down the debt.
Then Bush/ Cheney came in, exploded the deficits once again, and with them the debt.
Deficits have decreased dramatically under Obama, in spite of Republicans blocking infrastructure investments do that would have led to good jobs, expanded middle class purchasing power, and increased tax revenue, thus further decreasing the deficit.
But perhaps you don't understand the difference between deficit and debt and so make the mistake of saying Obama increased the deficit? Just one more example of how little Republicans understand economics and what affects budgets.
Stimulate the economy, tax revenues will go up, which causes the deficit to go down. If the deficit keeps going down eventually, as with the Clinton '90s, we get a surplus. The surplus then pays down the debt( unless, as with Bush, Republicans throw it away by giving tax breaks to their wealthy patrons and invading a country or so).
You Conservatives complain about the deficit, but ignore the fact plain as day that the deficit explodes under Republicans and decreases under Democrats.
President Clinton inherited a deficit, and debt, yet, without a single Republican vote passed a budget in 1993 that led to decreasing deficits to the point that there even was a budget surplus, which began to pay down the debt.
Then Bush/ Cheney came in, exploded the deficits once again, and with them the debt.
Deficits have decreased dramatically under Obama, in spite of Republicans blocking infrastructure investments do that would have led to good jobs, expanded middle class purchasing power, and increased tax revenue, thus further decreasing the deficit.
But perhaps you don't understand the difference between deficit and debt and so make the mistake of saying Obama increased the deficit? Just one more example of how little Republicans understand economics and what affects budgets.
Stimulate the economy, tax revenues will go up, which causes the deficit to go down. If the deficit keeps going down eventually, as with the Clinton '90s, we get a surplus. The surplus then pays down the debt( unless, as with Bush, Republicans throw it away by giving tax breaks to their wealthy patrons and invading a country or so).
3
So you are saying the government should stay out of our bedrooms and doctors' offices and that no business is too big to fail? That's the real problem with the faux conservatism that the right pushes. A system that protects the current economic winners and an emphasis on controlling individual behavior is modern conservatism. I'm not saying that a libertarian system is the best, but modern conservatism is as much about controlling the behavior of individuals and choosing winners and losers as it is about the fantasy of the market as the ultimate good.
1
Pointing out what is dreadfully wrong about Giuliani's disgraceful remarks is not enough; only fools would be influenced to change their minds about the President at this point. And it is probably a good lesson for children to understand what slander and innuendo are and how to recognize it.
But this peculiar dynamic of call-and-response between pundits and politicians seems to provide little else than jobs for all of you. Both sides raise money by trafficking in the outrage generated by the so called "national conversation".
I suppose it is honorable and important to excoriate the slanderers and panderers immediately--"war-room" style, as James Carville established.
It is only human to hold one's nose when a room fills up with toxicity, but columns, commentary and Twitter-storms notwithstanding, there must be some way out of this dreary symbiosis .
Fox News, Giuliani et al. are only in this for the money--we should barely acknowledge them, shake it off and move on.
But this peculiar dynamic of call-and-response between pundits and politicians seems to provide little else than jobs for all of you. Both sides raise money by trafficking in the outrage generated by the so called "national conversation".
I suppose it is honorable and important to excoriate the slanderers and panderers immediately--"war-room" style, as James Carville established.
It is only human to hold one's nose when a room fills up with toxicity, but columns, commentary and Twitter-storms notwithstanding, there must be some way out of this dreary symbiosis .
Fox News, Giuliani et al. are only in this for the money--we should barely acknowledge them, shake it off and move on.
1
JC: If you are truly interested in civility in politics then you ought to acknowledge that there is massive incivility engaged in by left of center politicians and the 90% of the media that serve as their cheerleaders.
How much dysfunction will it take for the undecided and the Republican voters of the Midwest and the South to realize that like it or not government is important, that those who work for government work for us and should be paid decently and on time.
Since when is someone in the US required to go to work and yet not paid? Would anyone of us find this acceptable? If Congress doesn't fund Homeland Security it is reasonable to view Congress people who support the in-action as unpatriotic, UN-American and treasonous. Vote them out in 2016 or watch your security go down the tubes. That includes you: 1%.
Since when is someone in the US required to go to work and yet not paid? Would anyone of us find this acceptable? If Congress doesn't fund Homeland Security it is reasonable to view Congress people who support the in-action as unpatriotic, UN-American and treasonous. Vote them out in 2016 or watch your security go down the tubes. That includes you: 1%.
2
As usual,well said Mr Blow.Among other things true patriots pay their fair share of taxes.That fixes our crumbling infrastructure,educates our children,help the helpless,keeps us healthy,and above all keeps us safe from those who want to do us harm.Just sticking a pin on your lapel and a flag on your front yard doesn't make anyone a patriot.Unfortunately the education part is the the most difficult hurdle to jump
3
"Honey, I love you, but I want to fundamentally transform you." Or, "Honey, I love you just the way you are."
One of these sentences demonstrates unconditional love, the other use of love is merely a preface to soften the blow that they loathe you. Which line is more likely to be used by Obama, is self-evident.
One of these sentences demonstrates unconditional love, the other use of love is merely a preface to soften the blow that they loathe you. Which line is more likely to be used by Obama, is self-evident.
1
The president was launched to national attention by a speech that insisted that "there is no red America, or blue America, there is only the United States of America." The problem is that that is not a universally held idea. In the minds of the opposition that notion is preposterous.
1
Rudolph Giuliani is merely saying what many in the GOP believe or want Americans to believe about President Obama. That anyone believes it at all is a sad statement about what we think of African Americans, immigrants, and anyone else who is not a White Anglo Saxon Protestant male. Personally, I would question Cheney's, Rumsfeld's, and a few others in W's administration on their loyalty and love of America
22
Yes, that all makes sense, but Giuliani is not a WASP, so why is he saying these things? And, who cares what Giuliani says about anything. The amount of coverage this has gotten is mind-numbing.
" He wasn’t brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up "
Come on Mr. Blow, Giuliani was just blowing the dog whistle again. Can a republican make a speech where he does not bring his whistle?
Come on Mr. Blow, Giuliani was just blowing the dog whistle again. Can a republican make a speech where he does not bring his whistle?
12
Did nobody tell Rudy that in less than two years it won't be a selling point, for recruiting ruffians and rabble-rousers out of the "Suburra" anymore? Or is it early-onset A's?
I'll never forget the quote by I believe Upton Sinclair which was "When Fascism comes to America it will be draped with the flag and carrying a Bible." How so many people can disregard the words of the Constitution and such works as The Declaration of Independence and still consider themselves to be patriots boggles my mind.
I remember in the days of Richard Nixon, the "New Nixon" era-1968, his cohorts started to display the American Flag stating that all disagreement with American policy was un-American. Since then the GOP has frequently tried to corner the market on values and morals. They were the party of the family they insisted. However, that talk was silent during the 2008 campaign when their V.P. nominee had an unmarried pregnant 17 year old daughter. Do you think for a minute that it wouldn't have been used if their opponent had the same baggage?
One prominent Republican recently said something about his party being the one that too many connect with "crazy."
I remember in the days of Richard Nixon, the "New Nixon" era-1968, his cohorts started to display the American Flag stating that all disagreement with American policy was un-American. Since then the GOP has frequently tried to corner the market on values and morals. They were the party of the family they insisted. However, that talk was silent during the 2008 campaign when their V.P. nominee had an unmarried pregnant 17 year old daughter. Do you think for a minute that it wouldn't have been used if their opponent had the same baggage?
One prominent Republican recently said something about his party being the one that too many connect with "crazy."
25
I recently watched an episode of Morning Joe where the hosts were having a good snarky chuckle and shaking of heads at an interview President Obama had with quite a "lively" blogger with painted green fingernails. It turned me off of the show. She, and her followers, are just as American as anyone else. I would argue that President Obama has reached out and shown respect and concern for a more diversified America than anyone, ALL Americans. THAT is true love of country.
21
Don't do it to yourself. Morning Joe rots brain cells.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide a bit of evidence of your assertion that Obama "has expressed more than disdain for Christioans all over this country". While your at ti, a shred, yes just a shred will do, of evidence that he has ever shown "preference for homosexuality and every perversion one can think of".
I, and I'm sure many others, look forward to your presentation of evidence.
I, and I'm sure many others, look forward to your presentation of evidence.
2
Victor Edwards - Your homophobia has become so all consuming that I think you've become unhinged.
1
Actually, I WAS shocked by Giuliani's comments. They were so very crass...so tasteless...so ignorant. Especially coming from a man who was simply NOT raised the way I was - to love the things about this country that I love.
Perhaps Mr. Giuliani was really saying that Mr. Obama wasn't raised to believe in the organized crime approach to life and Government or the bullying approach to governance...and for THAT, I am grateful.
Perhaps Mr. Giuliani was really saying that Mr. Obama wasn't raised to believe in the organized crime approach to life and Government or the bullying approach to governance...and for THAT, I am grateful.
28
On who loves America, the Republicans focus on symbols, like the pin on one's lapel. Once Giuliani had a chance to be on a national stage, the pin didn't carry him very far. Americans saw right through him.
Discerning Americans understand that the measure of love is in the actions one take: respecting women's rights, helping 11 million have health care, brining the troops home, helping poor children to eat well and get an education, and maintaining a long tradition of humane immigration.
In many respect, it is Obama who is "conservative" by taking actions that preserve what has made this country great: sound immigration policies, access to education, healthy citizens, and justice for all (not just the very few in Giuliani's smug world).
Discerning Americans understand that the measure of love is in the actions one take: respecting women's rights, helping 11 million have health care, brining the troops home, helping poor children to eat well and get an education, and maintaining a long tradition of humane immigration.
In many respect, it is Obama who is "conservative" by taking actions that preserve what has made this country great: sound immigration policies, access to education, healthy citizens, and justice for all (not just the very few in Giuliani's smug world).
25
RG's statement on President Obama's love for his country reveals more about his own heart than it says anything about the President. The statement is pure projection of his fears that a man brought up in the circumstances that President Obama faced as an black American couldn't possibly love America as much as a man brought up in the circumstances of white privilege, where love is defined as the desire to keep things the way they have always been. The more we try to hide it, the more our shadow side leaks out, and RG is just expressing the nation's shadowy complicity in the systems and practices of white supremacy.
18
The truth is we are not any more a single unified nation, the Americans.
We are now turning into two nations, the Democrats and the Republicans. To test this hypothesis, ask yourself the crucial question: “Would you be able to vote and elect for a President any politician from another party?
Now ask yourself: Would you be able to vote for another fellow American to be a President?
We are now turning into two nations, the Democrats and the Republicans. To test this hypothesis, ask yourself the crucial question: “Would you be able to vote and elect for a President any politician from another party?
Now ask yourself: Would you be able to vote for another fellow American to be a President?
2
Good questions! They suggest that we are thinking only in absolute terms, fighting in our minds with "or" and "and." Are we black OR white? We are black AND white. Are we democrat or republican? Our minds, regardless of discussions about the Touring test and AI, are for the most part incapable of holding two opposing ideas in mind at the same time.
We arbitrarily divide into Rs and Ds, because we can't imagine the myriad paradoxes inherent in the two extremes melded. Mathematically, it breaks us into the lowest common denominators. Our minds like to break a fight into two parties, not multiple adversaries.
Yet we so often forget that the definitions of Rs and Ds have been fluid over the years and had many crossovers. What is now democratic was conservative in recent history, e.g. Obamacare.
The beauty of America is the lack of traditional absolutes and the fluidity of the system to match, or at least approach, the needs of the times. In a few hundred years we will know more about the longevity of the experiment of democracy.
Meanwhile, RG's comment seems simply absurd and a continuance of the birther denial of fact. Next we can expect to hear that Obama is an alien...from Mars.
We arbitrarily divide into Rs and Ds, because we can't imagine the myriad paradoxes inherent in the two extremes melded. Mathematically, it breaks us into the lowest common denominators. Our minds like to break a fight into two parties, not multiple adversaries.
Yet we so often forget that the definitions of Rs and Ds have been fluid over the years and had many crossovers. What is now democratic was conservative in recent history, e.g. Obamacare.
The beauty of America is the lack of traditional absolutes and the fluidity of the system to match, or at least approach, the needs of the times. In a few hundred years we will know more about the longevity of the experiment of democracy.
Meanwhile, RG's comment seems simply absurd and a continuance of the birther denial of fact. Next we can expect to hear that Obama is an alien...from Mars.
Giuliani's comments are a laugh because they come from a guy who paraded his mistress up Fifth Avenue in front of his wife and kids and most real Americans would never do that.
14
Did he now? Well, I can tell you he was not raised like I was! [Touche', Rudy]
1
We love our children - unconditionally. But, that does not prevent us from always striving to show them the way to be even better. I am so lucky to live here now. I love America. That love is great enough that I want to leave it an even better place for the generations to follow. One thing I love is where we have been collectively wrong - we strive to correct that wrong. Please God bless America and keep showing her the path to be better and better.
8
One meaning of the word exceptional is "out of the ordinary." We are definitely in that category when we willfully work to ignore the natural world that maintains our lives--in fact we work to lie about what we're doing, to actively work to destroy it. The word conservatism is related to the word conservation-- one of its meanings is to preserve the natural world that sustains us. We even set ourselves up as models of unbridled exploitation to other countries because they too can be exceptional. John Boehner likes to say "the American people," ignoring the importance of our diverse points of view. The word "life" has been usurped by many who are really anti-life in their attempt to destroy all that controls our environmental excesses.
The connotations of these important words could become deadly for all "the American people." But I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't love this country. I still have hope--otherwise I wouldn't bother. Oh--and the word "change" has as many positive connotations as it does negative ones. We need to analyze the messages inherent in the language we use to define ourselves.
The connotations of these important words could become deadly for all "the American people." But I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't love this country. I still have hope--otherwise I wouldn't bother. Oh--and the word "change" has as many positive connotations as it does negative ones. We need to analyze the messages inherent in the language we use to define ourselves.
4
Jessica Tandy and Hume Cronyn, the wonderful stars of stage and screen, were famously married for a long time; they clearly loved each other. Asked in a joint interview if they had ever considered divorce, both stated that they had not. But (humorously) both allowed that they had thought of murdering the other on several occasions. Yes, one can be disappointed at times with those things and people and ideas we love.
7
Who does America love?
America does not love Black African Americans who after being denied their humanity as persons during slavery and their equality as Americans during Jim Crow and is lingering aftermath are still at the bottom of the American socioeconomic political educational heap primarily because of racially colored malice aforethought by individuals and institutions. There are more Blacks on welfare, in prison, unemployed and among the working poor than ever before.
America does not love real human beings who are poor. The income tax code is a monument to corporate plutocrat welfare and the regulatory system is a license to plunder and pillage by the socioeconomic elite.
America does not love it's soldier warriors. Since September 11, 2001 only .75 % of Americans have volunteered to put on an American military uniform.
America does not love Brown Hispanic/Latino Americans who are citizens or who want to become citizens of or live and work in America. That is why our legal immigration system is so slow, complicated, costly and inconsistent while we build fences and focus on deportation and incarceration.
America does not love the LGBT community. They were created in God's image and they are persons.
America does not love women. Women have had the right to vote for almost a century and been free of discrimination for just over half century but are still not on a level socioeconomic educational plane with males.
Who is left to love? And why are they America?
America does not love Black African Americans who after being denied their humanity as persons during slavery and their equality as Americans during Jim Crow and is lingering aftermath are still at the bottom of the American socioeconomic political educational heap primarily because of racially colored malice aforethought by individuals and institutions. There are more Blacks on welfare, in prison, unemployed and among the working poor than ever before.
America does not love real human beings who are poor. The income tax code is a monument to corporate plutocrat welfare and the regulatory system is a license to plunder and pillage by the socioeconomic elite.
America does not love it's soldier warriors. Since September 11, 2001 only .75 % of Americans have volunteered to put on an American military uniform.
America does not love Brown Hispanic/Latino Americans who are citizens or who want to become citizens of or live and work in America. That is why our legal immigration system is so slow, complicated, costly and inconsistent while we build fences and focus on deportation and incarceration.
America does not love the LGBT community. They were created in God's image and they are persons.
America does not love women. Women have had the right to vote for almost a century and been free of discrimination for just over half century but are still not on a level socioeconomic educational plane with males.
Who is left to love? And why are they America?
7
I know that this is a horrible thing to say but I don't believe that Giuliani loves America the way that I do and I don't believe that he loves you or me. I believe that Giuliani would sell me on the open market if he was allowed to do so.
20
Rudy is way off base and his statement demeaned himself. I am no fan of the president and there are plenty of legitimate things to criticize Obama on, but questioning his love of country is stupid. The president loves his country but shows it in different ways, that is his choice, like it or not agree or disagree. Republicans keep getting sucked into these false arguments, I don't know why. The president can be criticized by his liberal actions and there are plenty of areas to criticize, but not his love of country.
4
There are things to criticize about America, specially people like Rudy who call themselves "American" without understanding the true meaning of the word.
On the other hand, one hopes the mayor realizes that one of the exceptional things about America is that it lets him run his mouth, so he can pretend to be relevant in politics - as if anyone cares what he thinks or says other than a few right wing fellow travelers.
On the other hand, one hopes the mayor realizes that one of the exceptional things about America is that it lets him run his mouth, so he can pretend to be relevant in politics - as if anyone cares what he thinks or says other than a few right wing fellow travelers.
7
What a pitiful American embarrassment Giuliani is.
I nominate him for the "Most Like Joe McCarthy" Oscar.
I nominate him for the "Most Like Joe McCarthy" Oscar.
16
Not very long ago, Rudy Giuliani was one of the most sensible Republicans in America. He was the embodiment of the northeastern moderate Republican types who could get the electoral support of most Americans -- Democrat or Republican. I do not understand what happened to him that he is now making such idiotic statements previously associated with only certain crude conservative Republican types.
2
You can tell by the reaction of the Obama apologist media that Giuliani was spot on. What a conundrum. How can you hate half the people in the country, the countries traditions and history and love it at the same time?
1
Funny you should say hate half America. Obama doesn't hate anyone but it has become more than clear republicans have no use for anyone not in the one percent nor anyone not a registered republican. Just look at your very own statement. Apologist for Obama? Sad really that you believe so just because they are not attacking Obama like Faux and it's sheeple followlers.
2
When the Daily News, that Obama-bashing, Romney-endorsing paper, recognizes Giuliani for the wacko he is, or at least expects its readers to, then we know that America has some decency left.
America continues to have exceptionally shallow "patriots", who have a very narrow & limited vision of what the idea of America is all about, for all its citizens. Over time, these "patriots" will be fewer in number.
2
Best Op-Ed published in the NYT in a long time. Every word rings true.
4
Mr. Guilaini's "horrible" comments about President Obama's love for America and Americans should have been immediately and categorically disavowed and condemned by Governor Walker and every leader of the Republican party. Aside the insulting presumption Mr. Guilaini could speak credibly or definitively on what is in the recesses of another human being's soul, is the far more sinister, intentional and unsubstantiated defaming of the President of The United States.
President Obama has perennially been the target of a professional hate industry which arose almost immediately after his election. First, was the so called "birther" accusations which impuned President Obama's right to assume office based on completely false allegations of his citizenship. These defamatory allegations were refuted by the Republican Governer of Hawaii. Yet, so called Patriots and conservative Republicans continued an incessant whisper campaign about President Obama's citizenship and his qualifications for office.
Now another Republican propagandist, Mr. Guilaini, in a public Republican political event launches an even more henious and unsubstantiated attack, not against President Obama's public policies or honourable discharge of his office, but against his intimate personal feelings of which no one, save President Obama and God knows.
Mr. Guilaini's backtracking on Sunday talk shows were woefully inadequate of an unqualified apology due to the President for making such statements.
President Obama has perennially been the target of a professional hate industry which arose almost immediately after his election. First, was the so called "birther" accusations which impuned President Obama's right to assume office based on completely false allegations of his citizenship. These defamatory allegations were refuted by the Republican Governer of Hawaii. Yet, so called Patriots and conservative Republicans continued an incessant whisper campaign about President Obama's citizenship and his qualifications for office.
Now another Republican propagandist, Mr. Guilaini, in a public Republican political event launches an even more henious and unsubstantiated attack, not against President Obama's public policies or honourable discharge of his office, but against his intimate personal feelings of which no one, save President Obama and God knows.
Mr. Guilaini's backtracking on Sunday talk shows were woefully inadequate of an unqualified apology due to the President for making such statements.
342
It is important to look at the power elite who back the Republican party and their ultimate goal; men like the Koch brothers want less government interference with their personal and corporate power. When Republicans are in power, we get jingoism and war to hide the twin acts of dismantling government regulations and funneling money into corporations. When Democrats are in power, we see obstructionism focused on blocking any sort of reform.
While the attacks on Obama are especially effective because many in the Republican base fear anyone different from themselves having power, the ultimate goal is really just to stop government from being effective.
While the attacks on Obama are especially effective because many in the Republican base fear anyone different from themselves having power, the ultimate goal is really just to stop government from being effective.
2
Indeed the former mayor should offer a sincere apology to Pres. Obama, he won't. The media establishment has been wearing blinders regarding the right wing industry of Obama slander that began in 2008 and continues unabated.. Since Sen. John McCain contradicted a woman at a campaign event in 2008 when she called then Sen. Obama an Arab and was booed, the GOP and the Tea Party (founded on hatred, not freedom) have ignored, encouraged and nurtured the baser instincts of their primary voters. John McCain would not dare say anything fair about the president today. The media, even Democratic spokespeople deny the prevalence of this irrational hatred, but any American. (probably white) who has not received multiple unattributed emails full of absurd claims about the president is a rare bird. You can push back and get off the emial list or send back refuting material to the whole email list, both I tried, a waste of time, this gang not interested in facts. Behold the avoidance, the mealy mouthed response of most prominent Republicans. So as the country and the president face conflict in the Middle East, Putin marches in Europe, Boehner invites a foreign leader to speak to Congress, not wanting "interference" from the president, the lack of patriotism and disrespect continues. CNN takes a poll on percentage of Americans to guage the number who believe the president loves America! Who doesn't love America? If you have to lie and distort, it's you.
1
Mr. Giuliani meets the definition of a 'Has Been' to the extent that if this New Yorker had heard that he had gone home, this would not have caused this American to blink in surprise. It was only till now that I remembered his tenure as mayor, not one of the finest, and his reappearance on the aftermath of 9/11. Standing high and wave flagging.
There are historical New York mayors who will be remembered but Mr. Giuliani is not one of them to my mind, and it is enough to wonder if he has gone light in the head, for if this is his way to make noise about his love for America, it may be genuine but there is a sound of forgotten echoes in the air.
There are historical New York mayors who will be remembered but Mr. Giuliani is not one of them to my mind, and it is enough to wonder if he has gone light in the head, for if this is his way to make noise about his love for America, it may be genuine but there is a sound of forgotten echoes in the air.
"My country, right or wrong" was a slogan I first saw, in German, in a photograph of the gate to one of Hitler's death camps. The next time I saw it was just after I had returned from Vietnam. It was in English on a bumper sticker in St Paul, MN. We had sunk so low between 1945 and 1969 that we were justifying our own crimes against humanity the same way that Hitler's minions did. I can love what America was but not love what it has become. History will not have anything good to say about us.
316
"My country, right or wrong" is attributed to Commodore Stephen Decatur, from the War of 1812 era. But as the American-by-choice statesman Carl Schurz replied:
"The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, 'My country, right or wrong.' In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
"The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, 'My country, right or wrong.' In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
The great irony is that you have only written 1/2 of the quote. The entire quotation is "My country, right or wrong. If right, to keep it right...if wrong, to make it right." That is the essence of what Guiliani's error. If you love a thing you will try to make it better (right).
In 2016 you will all have a chance to elect a government that you will be proud of. It will start with throwing out the corporate shills that represent the 1% and electing people who will represent the 99%.
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else. Winston Churchill
The only problem is, America can no longer count on Republicans to do the right thing because they keep trying the same old methods over and over.
The only problem is, America can no longer count on Republicans to do the right thing because they keep trying the same old methods over and over.
9
Perfect quote.
Giuliani, like Cheney, is no better than the "dead-enders" he decries.
7
I really think that anyone who claims to love America should show it by voting.
7
Unfortunately, both parties use distant & corrupt memories to bolster their respective cases. America of Republican social conservatives is one of Andy Griffith, simple, Christ loving, Church going, uniform in color, the man the helm, and the woman nurturing the intact family. They use patriotism and American Exceptionalism as standard of citizenship. Of course this ignores the social inequities and diverse ethnic, religious, and sexual culture of a contemporary America.
Democrats seek a return to the post-WWII economic prosperity America of unions and high taxes ignoring the realities of the collapse of manufacturing, the emergence of global competitors, the actual massive growth in government spending over the past 50 years as well as government debt and the fact that economic prosperity was actually an illusion resulting from the defeated and collapsed WWII economies and applied only to white males. For Democrats the test is is not American Exceptionalism but rather a combination of pitchfork populism and a standard of citizenship that brands one a traitor or thug in the event that you believe that race blind laws are good or that "hands up don't shoot" may actually be more nuanced than simply a racist moment.
In both cases, the parties must stop their use of parables to make policy. Rather than riling the base, seek compromise. It's likely the Supreme Court will remove gay marriage from the debate. Move on. Simpson Bowles was a blue print on economic policy.
Democrats seek a return to the post-WWII economic prosperity America of unions and high taxes ignoring the realities of the collapse of manufacturing, the emergence of global competitors, the actual massive growth in government spending over the past 50 years as well as government debt and the fact that economic prosperity was actually an illusion resulting from the defeated and collapsed WWII economies and applied only to white males. For Democrats the test is is not American Exceptionalism but rather a combination of pitchfork populism and a standard of citizenship that brands one a traitor or thug in the event that you believe that race blind laws are good or that "hands up don't shoot" may actually be more nuanced than simply a racist moment.
In both cases, the parties must stop their use of parables to make policy. Rather than riling the base, seek compromise. It's likely the Supreme Court will remove gay marriage from the debate. Move on. Simpson Bowles was a blue print on economic policy.
1
You write: "Democrats seek a return to the post-WWII economic prosperity America [only Democrats?] of unions and high taxes ignoring the realities of the collapse of manufacturing, the emergence of global competitors..." and suggest that the prosperity was confined to white males. Not so. Standard of living improved for all people in America in the 1950s, albeit most for white unionized workers and least for black Americans in the south - enough so that parents of the baby boom generation (mine) could afford higher education and a high standard of living, helped in part by the GI Bill of RIghts (a policy promulgated by - gasp!- Democrats). High corporate and personal (for the wealthiest) tax rates allowed for infrastructural investment and a more equitable distribution of wealth (under a Republican administration!).
Private sector unions are strong in contemporary Germany, indeed in all of the strongest economies in Europe: wages are high and so is employment.
If a high tide lifts all boats, then private sector unions help all private sector workers.
Private sector unions are strong in contemporary Germany, indeed in all of the strongest economies in Europe: wages are high and so is employment.
If a high tide lifts all boats, then private sector unions help all private sector workers.
1
Stop with the false equivalencies, please, please please. There is only one sinfully extreme party in this country.
2
We disagree. I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly that you are speaking of the Republicans as the sinfully extreme party). The populist extreme of the democratic party ignores facts and has an agenda that sees income equality through redistribution of income even if it shrinks the total opportunity as preferable to lifting all boats.
The president did not mention that his change would be to insult Christians whenever possible. Show favoritism over illegals and anyone other than someone born in the USA. Nor has he ever portrayed that he is proud to be an American. You can only talk about "warts" so long. Our country as always stood up to the plate. We have given money wherever it was needed and fought for freedom of other countries. If and we did make mistakes on the way we have more than paid for the errors. For once in your life be proud of your country.
4
Jacrane, Chip-on-your-shoulder Christians such as yourself are too quick to take insult. Celebrate your faith all you want but don't expect a pat on the back for it from many of us. We've seen too much politicized, hypocritical and un-Christian Christianity from y'all.
America is exceptional in its inequality not only of possessed wealth but also of opportunity. It is exceptionally obese. For all its material assets, it is exceptionally under-educated and anti-intellectual. Its relative public health ranks exceptionally low among peer nations. It is exceptionally mean-spirited. Its incarceratoin rate is truly exceptional. When it comes to death by firearms, well, don't get me started.
The truth bites and it bites hard. I love the idea of America, but I despise the corruption of it, and even more our retreat from it led by hypocritical, cheerleading draft dodgers like Rudy Giuliani and Dick Cheney who castigate the patriotism of their countrymen while slinking away when they, themselves, are called to serve the country they "love."
I value a President who tells the truth about the country he loves. I call that "leadership."
www.endthemadnessnow.org
The truth bites and it bites hard. I love the idea of America, but I despise the corruption of it, and even more our retreat from it led by hypocritical, cheerleading draft dodgers like Rudy Giuliani and Dick Cheney who castigate the patriotism of their countrymen while slinking away when they, themselves, are called to serve the country they "love."
I value a President who tells the truth about the country he loves. I call that "leadership."
www.endthemadnessnow.org
11
Mr. Giuliani's trolley has left the tracks and the GOP lack of response indicates they agree with him and are following him off the tracks.
4
they fell off the tracks a long time ago.
It is instructive to read John Lukacs, a Hungarian born historian who escaped to this country. He speaks of 'nationalism' versus 'patriotism'. The nationalist is blind: my country right or wrong. The patriot truly loves: how can I make my country ever better.
18
We are at a truly historic moment in American history and I believe it is because the vast majority of us agree with Mr. Blow and we are going to make ourselves heard in the next elections. Conservatives attack the America most of us love, our democratic system of government that, until they started trying to destroy it 40+ year ago, provides relative security for most Americans. The vast majority of us want a well-managed government that helps us learn and grow and gives us hand up when trouble comes. The vast majority of us do not want a country where the fruits of our labor go straight into the pockets of the people who own Mr. Giuliani et al.
31
Why do you think the government should provide us with a hand? I donate money to the north Texas food bank several times a year. I appreciate that they help around my community. The left idea would be a national food bank, funded by more income taxes, filled with bureaucrats and red tape. I live my fellow man, but we do not need to rely on the federal government. See the difference?
It certainly would be nice, for a change, to hear from leftists what is good about America instead of the nearly constant stream of negativity.
12
It would be nice to hear right wingers acknowledge how the left has improved life in America once in a while rather than act as if we oppose your best interests. If you aren't in the top 1%, you have benefited from the work of the left more than you have from the transgressions of families like the Kochs, Waltons, and Bushes.
191
Of course the left has improved America; so has the right.
It takes 2 wings to make the bird fly.
But many here really would prefer a one-party state!
It takes 2 wings to make the bird fly.
But many here really would prefer a one-party state!
8
The absolute silliness of that statement is almost beyond comment. Who has ever advocated a one-party state in these pages? Name him or her. Statements like that, and like Gulliani's, are designed to do just one thing: denigrate the opposition by attempting to smear them as America-hating. No party has a monopoly on patriotism; we simply express it in different ways. When I advocate for change, I do so because I believe in the American experiment; I believe in the fundamental principle that all people are created equal, and therefore should have an equal opportunity to advance in our society. Progressives believe that our society isn't there, yet. To seek advancement beyond the status quo is, I believe, an act of patriotism very much in the spirit of the founding fathers. I would never claim that conservatives are unAmerican or lack patriotism or lack faith in America's ability to be better tomorrow than it is today. But I would appreciate the same courtesy being extended to my political beliefs by conservatives--and Mr. Guiliani has clearly stated otherwise.
11
Nevertheless, the president is the leader of the USA. He is supposed to promote the glories of the American way of life, and tout the virtues of our system.
We have enemies and college professors who can point out all the shortcomings.
We have enemies and college professors who can point out all the shortcomings.
14
A true leader corrects the course when it veers. A cheerleader supports the team no matter what. How do we get better if our leaders tell us we're always right?
6
When Obama addressed the gathering at which he gave a thoughtful speech, he was also addressing the whole world of Islam, as well as the wider world of our friends and enemies. America has a serious deficit of trust around the world. Obama inherited that, and he has improved it just as he has improved the budget deficit. Part of regaining trust means speaking like an honest leader and not like a carnival barker. We had eight years of that with W.
3
Is the president of the United States a travelling salesman?
1
Look at the draft dodgers in the GOP brain trust of Jeb Bush or Guiliani himself to see what these guys mean by loving your country. Hypocrites all.
310
Gee they must be old to be draft dodgers since it ended in 1973. No draft since then.
@ NB - "Hypocrites all"
That would only be true if the Democratic Party "brain trust" of the President contained more vets and less "draft dodgers." Right NB?
That would only be true if the Democratic Party "brain trust" of the President contained more vets and less "draft dodgers." Right NB?
Thank you for that relevant reminder.
Presidents get criticism by both public figures and media. For some reason it is not okay to critize this President. Why are the Liberals over sensitive? Guiliani expressed exactly what many are thinking, not because he is black, but because of his actions and words during the past six years. No President has been critized more that GW, it's all his fault. Senator Obama once called GW unpatriotic for increasing our debt, but he himself went on to double down on that debt. This week he will veto a bill that is step towards US energy independence because green radicals have funded his campaigns with gobs of cash. Actions speak louder than words.
3
It's never OK to lie or use hate speech which is what Giuliani was doing. The fact that a large number of Americans also lie and use hate speech doesn't make it right.
3
Slogans are a convenient way to summarize complex issues. But because they are so terse, they can often mislead. Take the national debt issue, for example.
The U.S. national debt increases in raw dollar terms every quarter. Economists aren't in agreement on the actual impact of this debt, but one thing they do agree on is that the debts of a sovereign nation cannot be compared with the debts of a household, or even a large corporation, in any meaningful way. Attempting to do so is a simplification that can only mislead.
When you say that President Obama has "doubled down" on the national debt, you suggest that he is somehow unique in creating and implementing expensive federal programs. Forget for a moment that it is Congress that initiates and passes spending bills. Instead, think about useful ways to measure the actual increase in the deficit.
If you measure by percentage of GDP or in raw dollars, then the deficits during the Obama administration have increased significantly. But if you measure by taking a percentage of increase of the deficit quarter by quarter, you'll see that percentage declining. And, of course, regardless of how you measure it, you'll never approach the increases experienced during the Reagan administration.
The ultimate meaning of all this so thoroughly depends on one's political point of view that I'm not sure we can actually have useful discussions about it. But I wish wecould get beyond slogans.
The U.S. national debt increases in raw dollar terms every quarter. Economists aren't in agreement on the actual impact of this debt, but one thing they do agree on is that the debts of a sovereign nation cannot be compared with the debts of a household, or even a large corporation, in any meaningful way. Attempting to do so is a simplification that can only mislead.
When you say that President Obama has "doubled down" on the national debt, you suggest that he is somehow unique in creating and implementing expensive federal programs. Forget for a moment that it is Congress that initiates and passes spending bills. Instead, think about useful ways to measure the actual increase in the deficit.
If you measure by percentage of GDP or in raw dollars, then the deficits during the Obama administration have increased significantly. But if you measure by taking a percentage of increase of the deficit quarter by quarter, you'll see that percentage declining. And, of course, regardless of how you measure it, you'll never approach the increases experienced during the Reagan administration.
The ultimate meaning of all this so thoroughly depends on one's political point of view that I'm not sure we can actually have useful discussions about it. But I wish wecould get beyond slogans.
2
Did your Mom not ever tell you that criticism should be directed at actions not physical or situational circumstances that can not be changed? Complaining about how Obama was raised as reflection of his policies is past tense. We all grow up where we land from the womb. It does influence us. Rudy said it's not racism , it's his (Obama) background, how he was raised. Anti- colonial maybe a little socialistic . The majority of Americans are not stupid, they voted for this world view , they are OK with change. It does not make them anti American nor does it make them UN patriotic.
Excellent column, and I share your views. And I'm coming from a different place on the political spectrum.
It's quite clear that attacks like Giuliani's are motivated, consciously or unconsciously, by the president's perceived race (I say "perceived" because he is, after all, biracial). Some white people are simply resentful (and perhaps scared) that their domination of America is coming to an end, or at least diminishing. Personally, I think the end of white domination would be good for America.
It's quite clear that attacks like Giuliani's are motivated, consciously or unconsciously, by the president's perceived race (I say "perceived" because he is, after all, biracial). Some white people are simply resentful (and perhaps scared) that their domination of America is coming to an end, or at least diminishing. Personally, I think the end of white domination would be good for America.
56
Maybe we can start with you?
Acknowledging our faults has morphed into white hate. Everything bad that has happened is blamed on white people, whereas other races and color take no blame whatever. In fact it is considered racist to criticize a person of color. We celebrate that fact that the US is becoming less white and other races are taking over and becoming majorities.
3
I searched for a speech by President Obama where he stated that "everything bad that has happened is blamed on white people." I could not find evidence that those words ever came from his mouth or his pen. However, I found many instances in which the President stated that he loved this country.
3
Sounds like someone is feeling sorry for himself, and scared of the future.
3
Ah yes, the classic conservative defense, whenever they're caught doing something wrong they cry victim. Bill O'Reilly is busy doing that right now because he was caught lying. So much for the idea of personal responsibility.
2
When you know a person and want to marry them, or know a company and want to become its CEO, do you profess to want to Fundamentally Change them? Do you say "I love you," I just want to Fundamentally change you?
Not change your hair or your hiring practices . . . Fundamental change. Change the core you.
Can Black America love the country where not so long wild racist thugs turned over a bus load of children heading for a public school to get an education equal to that provided the privileged white children? Actually they should, as that Country no longer exists. And Black America can still call for change that is still due, while loving their Country
Fact is, there is much to change in Obama's America. Fact is, America has changed much over its history; most for the better. Slavery, women's rights, safety nets, education, the health of the middle class and on and on.
Does a country where the biggest health problem of its poor is obesity, require Fundamental change? Where the average poor has a higher standard of living than in most other industrialized nations?
Can Obama love what he says needs FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE? Perhaps. Seems doubtful though.
Not change your hair or your hiring practices . . . Fundamental change. Change the core you.
Can Black America love the country where not so long wild racist thugs turned over a bus load of children heading for a public school to get an education equal to that provided the privileged white children? Actually they should, as that Country no longer exists. And Black America can still call for change that is still due, while loving their Country
Fact is, there is much to change in Obama's America. Fact is, America has changed much over its history; most for the better. Slavery, women's rights, safety nets, education, the health of the middle class and on and on.
Does a country where the biggest health problem of its poor is obesity, require Fundamental change? Where the average poor has a higher standard of living than in most other industrialized nations?
Can Obama love what he says needs FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE? Perhaps. Seems doubtful though.
8
America the Beautiful:
America, America
God mend thine every flaw,
Preserve thy soul in self control,
Thy liberty in law.
Written much longer ago than either G or O, and pointing out that we are always striving as a nation, continuously improving; it is a prayer for improving upon greatness.
America, America
God mend thine every flaw,
Preserve thy soul in self control,
Thy liberty in law.
Written much longer ago than either G or O, and pointing out that we are always striving as a nation, continuously improving; it is a prayer for improving upon greatness.
3
Your post is wrong on so many counts, but let me just pick one, this one:
"Does a country where the biggest health problem of its poor is obesity, require Fundamental change? Where the average poor has a higher standard of living than in most other industrialized nations? "
You seem to think that obesity comes from just eating too much and, by implication, if you have enough money to buy all this food you can't be poor. That's simply wrong on facts--poverty in fact tracks obesity, as any number of studies have shown (Google it).
Second, the standard of living--don't be lazy and just Google it. You'll find the US in the 34th place out of 35 nations (based on child poverty rates). Spotting nonsense, man!
"Does a country where the biggest health problem of its poor is obesity, require Fundamental change? Where the average poor has a higher standard of living than in most other industrialized nations? "
You seem to think that obesity comes from just eating too much and, by implication, if you have enough money to buy all this food you can't be poor. That's simply wrong on facts--poverty in fact tracks obesity, as any number of studies have shown (Google it).
Second, the standard of living--don't be lazy and just Google it. You'll find the US in the 34th place out of 35 nations (based on child poverty rates). Spotting nonsense, man!
2
Ironically, a majority of voters in two elections have agreed with President Obama that our country should change, and selected him to be the agent of change. Your suggestion that leading a country is somehow on a par with a marriage is off base, it is much more like being a CEO who was selected to avoid potential problems before they become too severe for the company to survive, or a coach who will combine toughness and tenderness in order to form a team, bring out the best in the strongest players, and lead it to victory. However, most coaches do not have to deal with players who will undermine the success of the team in order to have their own way.
2
Well said Mr. Blow. America's exceptionalism is, to say the least, an exaggerated way to pad oneself on the back and ignore the faults of an immigrant community, escaping much religious intolerance (and other european ills), to start anew. To some, it may even sound arrogant, a lack of humility necessary to grasp reality as is. Giuliani's language is divisive, as if being critical of our sometimes less than proud behavior is a fault in and by itself. Please lets stop this 'ego trip', and be reasonable. and flexible, and seek the truth whenever possible, even if it has some rough edges. Perfectionism as a goal may have some virtues but lets not fool ourselves, it is not achievable for us humans, not at this stage where we continue to treat each other inhumanely, where greed is alive and well, and where love is tucked away, nowhere to be found.
7
I know of no other country in the civilized world that would even have this silly discussion. Maybe that's what lies behind American exceptionalism.
71
Canada. England. Ireland. France. Italy.
Not to mention how quickly we ridicule other nations achievements when faced with our own shortcomings, yours included. My apologies.
1
Well, I've lived in Canada all my life, and I have never and I mean never heard politicians disparage their opponents' devotion to this country.
1
Who loves America?
With a heavy heart I have to conclude that somewhere there must be the people who love this country but they are completely excluded from the public life.
How to recognize the people who truly love America and would do everything possible to protect her?
Those people cannot be the members of the Democratic and Republican Party because they would not be the willing participants in polarization and division of America.
They cannot be our elected officials because they would implemented the policies in our best national interest.
They cannot be the voters who authorized the chronically reckless tax cuts and free trade agreements that made us dependent on the foreign loans and Chinese imports.
They cannot be the members of our armed forces who failed to confront their superiors and demand that we finally stop waging the senseless, detrimental and endless foreign wars across the globe that are draining out our national treasury, destroying our national prestige and motivate the foreigners to fight against us. The US Constitution prescribed our President to be the most powerful person in America and not in the world to prevent us from meddling into the internal affairs of foreign countries.
They cannot be the wealthiest Americans who exported our manufacturing and industrial base overseas and failed to pay more taxes to balance the federal budget.
They cannot be the members of our free press that failed to report the aforementioned...
With a heavy heart I have to conclude that somewhere there must be the people who love this country but they are completely excluded from the public life.
How to recognize the people who truly love America and would do everything possible to protect her?
Those people cannot be the members of the Democratic and Republican Party because they would not be the willing participants in polarization and division of America.
They cannot be our elected officials because they would implemented the policies in our best national interest.
They cannot be the voters who authorized the chronically reckless tax cuts and free trade agreements that made us dependent on the foreign loans and Chinese imports.
They cannot be the members of our armed forces who failed to confront their superiors and demand that we finally stop waging the senseless, detrimental and endless foreign wars across the globe that are draining out our national treasury, destroying our national prestige and motivate the foreigners to fight against us. The US Constitution prescribed our President to be the most powerful person in America and not in the world to prevent us from meddling into the internal affairs of foreign countries.
They cannot be the wealthiest Americans who exported our manufacturing and industrial base overseas and failed to pay more taxes to balance the federal budget.
They cannot be the members of our free press that failed to report the aforementioned...
35
Oh dear! The architects of our divisions are Republicans. That is well documented. In another phase of history, it might be Democrats, but our problems are here and now, As for the armed forces, surely the officer corps has more responsibility than the rank and file? The officers do not make policy--except under Republican government. This is one reason Obama fired Stanley McChrystal and moved others out quietly. The officer corps had been politicized during the W years,
1
It is not the role of our soldiers and sailors to argue about when or where they go to war. That task is for the American people, acting through our elected leaders. Do you really want the army and navy to trump governmental decisions?
Wouldn't that turn the US into a military dictatorship?
Wouldn't that turn the US into a military dictatorship?
1
Bravo
Rudy Giuliani failed miserably at something Barack Obama did twice: being elected President of the United States. He now has to compete for relevancy with right wing pundits and Presidential hopefuls, most of whom are a lot younger.
The more desperate the man, the desperate his comments.
The more desperate the man, the desperate his comments.
114
You're giving the Republicans way too much credit in this instance. Obama could have the most extreme right-winger in the country write his speeches for him, and the Republican blowhards would still parse the words & find evidence of the president's hatred, or socialism, or whatever. It's about selling hatred, not about ideology.
151
It's certainly an exceptional feat to transition so quickly from the genocide on which the nation was founded; through slavery and Jim Crow; to a time when the majority party fights tirelessly for citizens' constitutional right to shoot each other. Not only are we exceptional, but we're number one with a bullet.
78
Charles, you write only one line in this fine column that I disagree with: "The histrionics have shed their ability to shock."
For me they haven't. I wince every time I hear Rudy Giuliani unleash these tirades in fury at the President--mean-spirited, schoolyard taunts that have no place anywhere, let alone where they can be taped and rebroadcast to all of us.
Telling the American people Mr, Obama doesn't love America? That he's been "raised differently" from the average American? What incredible gall. I would argue that it's Rudy who doesn't love America by unleashing this vitriol on the world stage.
I'm glad you delved into the idea of American exceptionalism. As anyone who posts here with frequency knows, we all reserve the right--as voters--to criticize the actions of our leaders. And we also reserve the right to speak out when our notions of country and rules hit a roadblock, the right to admit that we fall short continually in measuring our "greatness" compared to other countries, from healthcare access and outcomes to women's rights to economic opportunity to environmental stewardship.
But that doesn't mean we don't love our country. Nobody has the right to tell another person how much or how little they love America, or what they think or what their values are. Such taunts are not only ignorant and uneducated, they belong on the level of 5th grade fights.
Only God, not Rudy, can judge the love any of us have for country or for anything.
For me they haven't. I wince every time I hear Rudy Giuliani unleash these tirades in fury at the President--mean-spirited, schoolyard taunts that have no place anywhere, let alone where they can be taped and rebroadcast to all of us.
Telling the American people Mr, Obama doesn't love America? That he's been "raised differently" from the average American? What incredible gall. I would argue that it's Rudy who doesn't love America by unleashing this vitriol on the world stage.
I'm glad you delved into the idea of American exceptionalism. As anyone who posts here with frequency knows, we all reserve the right--as voters--to criticize the actions of our leaders. And we also reserve the right to speak out when our notions of country and rules hit a roadblock, the right to admit that we fall short continually in measuring our "greatness" compared to other countries, from healthcare access and outcomes to women's rights to economic opportunity to environmental stewardship.
But that doesn't mean we don't love our country. Nobody has the right to tell another person how much or how little they love America, or what they think or what their values are. Such taunts are not only ignorant and uneducated, they belong on the level of 5th grade fights.
Only God, not Rudy, can judge the love any of us have for country or for anything.
161
You argue that Rudy Giuliani is disgusting for speaking out against the president and in the same argument you say we all have the right to say what we believe. So which is it?
Rudy speaks of his father and upbring with great admiration, a father who was at Sing Sing and was a mafia enforcer. Now that is really the American ideal!!
Whoops... the America of the progressive future has no God, only cults of personality, only bread and circuses. Only government can judge our love for country. Our "right to perpetual criticism" of the object of our love, a farcical enough expression of love in other contexts, must, in coming times (if not already), fall within the bounds set by the ruling party, deriving their just powers by the induced consent of the governed.
1
This is nearly as sad as Giuliani's demagouery. The racist appeal of our ex-mayor's rant is transparent, yet the nation's leading Black columnist apparently feels he must make that point indirectly, giving Rudy's argument an intellectual respect it does not deserve.
10
Or perhaps it is true that his opinion is that Obama does not love America in the same way as he does. That is obviously true, both his opinion and the way that they show their love.
1
Your words are very wise. In fact, I have never heard the true meaning of patriotism expressed so beautifully.
The reality, though, is that many people see things only in black and white, binary terms and have a corresponding "in-group/out group" morality. For them, patriotism means national egoism, as Bismarck once put it. Self-criticism is a sign of weakness, not commendable moral ambition or creativity. We are called upon to love America and to hate all others, as if life were just the same as a football game.
This is very sad, because self-government cannot really work unless self-criticism is seen as legitimate. It takes an intrepid voice to challenge this darkness, which never seems to go away. You have that voice.
The reality, though, is that many people see things only in black and white, binary terms and have a corresponding "in-group/out group" morality. For them, patriotism means national egoism, as Bismarck once put it. Self-criticism is a sign of weakness, not commendable moral ambition or creativity. We are called upon to love America and to hate all others, as if life were just the same as a football game.
This is very sad, because self-government cannot really work unless self-criticism is seen as legitimate. It takes an intrepid voice to challenge this darkness, which never seems to go away. You have that voice.
177
Charles, to be an exceptional nation, you need an exceptional citizenry - a citizenry committed to intellectual, emotional, and spiritual growth.
A person truly committed to intellectual, emotional, and spiritual growth would not be parroting memes seeded by charlatans like Newt Gingrich or Dinish d'Sousa - which is what Giuliani was doing.
The gospels that grew up listening to taught "what a profit a man if he gain the whole world yet lose his soul".
What Rudy was doing in that talk is playing to the neanderthals within the Republican base, in a truly pathetic attempt to remain relevant.
What profit a man if he gain the Fox audience yet lose his soul?
A person truly committed to intellectual, emotional, and spiritual growth would not be parroting memes seeded by charlatans like Newt Gingrich or Dinish d'Sousa - which is what Giuliani was doing.
The gospels that grew up listening to taught "what a profit a man if he gain the whole world yet lose his soul".
What Rudy was doing in that talk is playing to the neanderthals within the Republican base, in a truly pathetic attempt to remain relevant.
What profit a man if he gain the Fox audience yet lose his soul?
46
Mr. Blow, thank you for including that graphic summarizing the apparently rapid decline, by age group, in Americans' belief in the pernicious lie that is "American exceptionalism." I hadn't been aware of that and I now actually feel a little bit better than when I got up this morning.
25
There is a more general strand in American culture, from my experience, that if you want to play on the team, you can't criticize it in public. It seems to be some sort of assumption about what it means to be loyal. We publicly praise its opposite in people, saying how fiercely they love the institution they work for and how they defend it and its other personnel when others criticize it -- the issues at stake are not discussed on the merits, it's all about being a company man.
I am relieved that Rudy Giuliani at least prefaced his remarks with the marker of "I do not believe." That part seemed to be glossed over in other discussions of this episode. What Giuliani believes or doesn't believe does not make the thing true or not true. We take the belief whence it comes.
President Obama has been quite up-front about wanting to help develop this nation into a more perfect union. While that sort of statement could include improving things like infrastructure, I have taken it to mean improvement on the front of including more people -- everyone -- in this land more fully in our civic discourse and activity and prosperity. And that may be precisely what some people don't want, given policies such as stop & frisk, mass incarceration, reductions in needed safety net programs, tax code benefits for the wealthy, etc. Maybe this is about who "we" are more than it is about what the country is doing and whether it can be, and should, be improved.
I am relieved that Rudy Giuliani at least prefaced his remarks with the marker of "I do not believe." That part seemed to be glossed over in other discussions of this episode. What Giuliani believes or doesn't believe does not make the thing true or not true. We take the belief whence it comes.
President Obama has been quite up-front about wanting to help develop this nation into a more perfect union. While that sort of statement could include improving things like infrastructure, I have taken it to mean improvement on the front of including more people -- everyone -- in this land more fully in our civic discourse and activity and prosperity. And that may be precisely what some people don't want, given policies such as stop & frisk, mass incarceration, reductions in needed safety net programs, tax code benefits for the wealthy, etc. Maybe this is about who "we" are more than it is about what the country is doing and whether it can be, and should, be improved.
21
It is worth noting that after Giuliani said these vile and untrue statements at the dinner, the honored guest, Governor Scott Walker backed Giuliani, saying "I don't know if President Obama loves America" and "I don't know if President Obama is a Christian".
Walker is touted as a leading GOP presidential candidate. This comes after several months of talking up how much the republicans wanted to reinvent their brand to look more appealing to groups to get beyond the almost guaranteed 47 % of the vote in 2016.
It looks like they are going to be stuck on that number in the next election.
Walker is touted as a leading GOP presidential candidate. This comes after several months of talking up how much the republicans wanted to reinvent their brand to look more appealing to groups to get beyond the almost guaranteed 47 % of the vote in 2016.
It looks like they are going to be stuck on that number in the next election.
18
The problem with those on the right who have always questioned President Obama's love of country and whether he is a "real American" is that they fail always to look in the mirror.
Where is the patriotism and love of country by people like Mitt Romney and so many others (in both parties) who believe it is Ok to avoid paying taxes by having their money overseas while they reap the benefits of protection, use of roads and bridges and so much more that are paid for with taxes?
They love an America which allows them to what I choose to label legal looting of the country's coffers. Of course the welfare mother is scorned by these same looters who love their country.
Giuliani has simply expressed what has been said before by Palin and others who fundamentally believe that this black man should not be THEIR President. He is not only black (and spare me the bi-racial thing because visibly no one can tell he is bi-racial) he also has a foreign name and a Muslim name at that.
Where is the patriotism and love of country by people like Mitt Romney and so many others (in both parties) who believe it is Ok to avoid paying taxes by having their money overseas while they reap the benefits of protection, use of roads and bridges and so much more that are paid for with taxes?
They love an America which allows them to what I choose to label legal looting of the country's coffers. Of course the welfare mother is scorned by these same looters who love their country.
Giuliani has simply expressed what has been said before by Palin and others who fundamentally believe that this black man should not be THEIR President. He is not only black (and spare me the bi-racial thing because visibly no one can tell he is bi-racial) he also has a foreign name and a Muslim name at that.
34
If Giulianni and Romney were patriotic they would help the president build consensus instead of always trying to tear him down. They are not patriots. They are charlatans.
3
Oh, but the rich looove America – as long as, like a battered wife, she lets itself be abused and plundered by them.
3
"Conservatism is rooted in preservation; progressivism advances alteration."
I have heard this many times, but I no longer believe it's true. Conservatives delight in altering systems in place that they don't like. Progressives delight in preserving systems in place that they do like.
In fact, I have not been able to find any consistent distinction between "conservationism" or "liberalism":
Conservatives oppose big government, except when big government supports big oil, in which case they support big government.
Conservatives support individual liberty, except for the liberty to marry.
Conservatives support balanced budgets when the President is a Democrat but say "deficits don't matter" when the President is a Republican.
Conservatives oppose "judicial activism" unless that activism results in the election of a Republican President or the dismantling of the Affordable Care Act.
You can easily find similar statements for liberals.
I have heard this many times, but I no longer believe it's true. Conservatives delight in altering systems in place that they don't like. Progressives delight in preserving systems in place that they do like.
In fact, I have not been able to find any consistent distinction between "conservationism" or "liberalism":
Conservatives oppose big government, except when big government supports big oil, in which case they support big government.
Conservatives support individual liberty, except for the liberty to marry.
Conservatives support balanced budgets when the President is a Democrat but say "deficits don't matter" when the President is a Republican.
Conservatives oppose "judicial activism" unless that activism results in the election of a Republican President or the dismantling of the Affordable Care Act.
You can easily find similar statements for liberals.
17
Thank you Dan Styer. I so rarely hear this said. The words "conservative" and "liberal" should be abandoned altogether as completely meaningless labels (oh, are you, Mr. Commenter, a libertarian? Do you claim you are a 'classic liberal'?" And you Ms. Commenter, a progressive, seeking, as Mr. Styer pointed out, to conserve the gains of the early 20th century progressive movement?")
I just got a letter from a very intelligent person who said the problem with liberals is they want "equality of outcome?" This is one of those ridiculous meaningless phrases that people throw out, (the people trying to shape public discourse for the sake of their corporate overlords, that is) hoping nobody will think about it too carefully. Really, liberals want the cashier at the market to get the same income as the surgeon at the hospital down the street?
Really, people, it's time to let go of these labels and realize, we all want the same goals (that is, except for the 1/10 of 1 percent who clearly don't want the same things as the rest of us - no wait, maybe they do too)
don salmon
www.remember-to-breathe.org
I just got a letter from a very intelligent person who said the problem with liberals is they want "equality of outcome?" This is one of those ridiculous meaningless phrases that people throw out, (the people trying to shape public discourse for the sake of their corporate overlords, that is) hoping nobody will think about it too carefully. Really, liberals want the cashier at the market to get the same income as the surgeon at the hospital down the street?
Really, people, it's time to let go of these labels and realize, we all want the same goals (that is, except for the 1/10 of 1 percent who clearly don't want the same things as the rest of us - no wait, maybe they do too)
don salmon
www.remember-to-breathe.org
It is ridiculous to attempt to judge the patriotism of individuals because there is such a wide range of definitions of the term. A better question is whether a President can be a public intellectual. Grant the President all the points he has made about our society and role in the world. Has making these points helped or hindered him in his role as President? Have his commentaries improved the standing of this country abroad and made us a more or less predictable ally to our friends and counterweight to those who oppose this country's interests? In this country has his commentary brought up closer together or further apart? There isn't one all or nothing answer to these questions, but it is undeniable President Obama has approached the office in a much different way than his predecessors and it is worth debating whether that approach is advancing society at home and our interests abroad.
2
In the long term it will absolutely advance out cause. Ignorance ignored is progress delayed.
1
Next to the pure mendacity of Giuliani's statement, what I can't figure out about his comment, and those who say similar things or in some roundabout way defend them (Gov. Scott Walker, for example) is why their audience to whom they are playing with such words can stand being treated with such abusive contempt by the very people they support. Guiliani's words weren't meant to hurt Pres. Obama. Guiliani didn't even mean what he said, He didn't not mean what he said. He was exploiting what he knows to be profound ignorance and, sorry, stupidity, amongst the GOP's base and hardcore supporters. If I say something I know is stupid and know to be wrong, nonsensical, illogical, intellectually empty, etc., but know it is what my audience wants to hear, then it's actually my audience I'm insulting because I clearly believe they are stupid enough to buy it w/o question.
The GOP has operated on this premise for a very long time now. It's time for its base to wake up and realize they're the ones being used and insulted, not Pres. Obama or anyone else.
The GOP has operated on this premise for a very long time now. It's time for its base to wake up and realize they're the ones being used and insulted, not Pres. Obama or anyone else.
60
Sadly, I fear that the ex Mayor did mean what he said and like so many of his ilk in the good old boys club is mightily insulted that one of their own is not running the show. Barack Obama regularly offers high praise for this country. I wonder if any of the Repubs ever really listen except to sniff out an errant phrase or two, then turn it into fodder for the ratings of Fox.
This President has led through difficult times with a steady hand and many, many are better off for his initiatives. Risking one's Presidency to secure health insurance for the millions without is hardly the act of one who does "love you or me"
It is amazing that one so lacking in emotional intelligence sits so high among the revered and elite. To off handedly announce to the nation and the world that President Barack Obama does not love i.e. care for his people is not only a grievous lie, but a stunning blow to the spiritual energy of the nation.
This President has led through difficult times with a steady hand and many, many are better off for his initiatives. Risking one's Presidency to secure health insurance for the millions without is hardly the act of one who does "love you or me"
It is amazing that one so lacking in emotional intelligence sits so high among the revered and elite. To off handedly announce to the nation and the world that President Barack Obama does not love i.e. care for his people is not only a grievous lie, but a stunning blow to the spiritual energy of the nation.
2
true, yet self defeating. ultimately, ungenerous and small-minded rhetotic doesn't win presidential elections.
1
Meant to say "hardly an act of one who does NOT "love you or me."
This is a desperate act by an irrelevant man who many younger voters only know from his work as a pitchman for a home security business.
Hey Giuliani--you wanna restart the culture wars? . . the "Real Americans" rhetoric of Sarah Palin? Go right ahead--it will guarantee that there will never be another Republican president. And that would be a great accomplishment.
Hey Giuliani--you wanna restart the culture wars? . . the "Real Americans" rhetoric of Sarah Palin? Go right ahead--it will guarantee that there will never be another Republican president. And that would be a great accomplishment.
53
When you read the nasty Obama and Blow comments here, one thing stands out: any criticism of the country by Others is, indeed, unpatriotic. No evidence is given for the invective, just claims. In other words only True Blue Americans can offer criticisms, if at all. If Others offer criticism, they are socialists, communists, incompetents, deniers of our exceptionalism - all said below.
This is the longterm Faux News strategy: frame the dialogue in terms of those who 'love' America as it has been while all others are 'destroyers' of America. Never mind that the Italian-Americans like Rudy who now screech this hatred were once hated themselves as un-American.
It is a doctrine of fear, of We vs. They - and it plays well with large numbers of white males in this country, supported every day by Faux News (War on Christmas, Obama the socialist, etc...) Ugly, ugly times - like the McCarthy 50s...
This is the longterm Faux News strategy: frame the dialogue in terms of those who 'love' America as it has been while all others are 'destroyers' of America. Never mind that the Italian-Americans like Rudy who now screech this hatred were once hated themselves as un-American.
It is a doctrine of fear, of We vs. They - and it plays well with large numbers of white males in this country, supported every day by Faux News (War on Christmas, Obama the socialist, etc...) Ugly, ugly times - like the McCarthy 50s...
106
You meant like the war on women? How about the War on gays? How about the war on climate?
1
Once I was an American exceptionalist. That was before I grew up.
60
"America's Mayor"? America's Nightmare is more like Rudy Giuliani 's vile words about President Barack Obama at a right-leaning Republican dinner for Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin; "I do not believe that the president loves America." How this man could speak toads and snakes from his mouth - how he could question the patriotism of one of our finest presidents, especially after his stint as New York City's Mayor during the 9/11 crisis , when the WTC buildings were leveled by the 2 hijacked airplanes with Saudis at the controls - is beyond contempt. Our country is still an ongoing experiment - still worthy of love and awe for its unifying ideal - all men are created equal. But as Orwell wrote back in 1945, "some animals are more equal than others", and in the US today, all men and women are not treated equally. The curse of "untermenschen" and the incineration of millions of "unequal" Germans and Europeans brought down the "Thousand Year" Third Reich after 12 years. Americans show their homeland warts and all, notwithstanding the Republican Conservative's desire to clutch and drive our country backwards, into an unchanging antediluvian morass. Americans are only human beings, unexceptional and messy human people. As you said, Charles Blow, "every day, we make America." And the United States needs criticism, but not to the extent of a former mayor's foul-mouthing of our President. Giuliani's words, having been spoken, cannot be withdrawn or erased. For shame, Rudy.
45
Great comment. And Scott Walker's silence on the subject speaks volumes.
3
I mentioned in another comment that American exceptionalism today is nothing but "la la, I can't hear you." It is that, but it is also the belief that the USA is a Nietzschean superman among nations.
Giuliani is a complete joke. Why? WHY does the press pay attention to this kind of junk 'I have to be in the spotlight' statement? Meet the Press led off their show yesterday with this as if it was the most important thing in the world. All these incredible problems we must face and THIS is what constitutes 'news' in America.
He's dying for free press. And you all have given it to him. Why can't the American news people learn to ignore this kind of nonsense? And they need to do a much better job at getting out the important news (like other parts of the world get - the civilized part). We in America are badly informed and this is a good example of why.
He's dying for free press. And you all have given it to him. Why can't the American news people learn to ignore this kind of nonsense? And they need to do a much better job at getting out the important news (like other parts of the world get - the civilized part). We in America are badly informed and this is a good example of why.
29
Chuck Todd has said that he has no obligation to point out when one of his guests says wokething that is factually untrue. Like most of television news, Meet the Press is no longer a news show ~ it is an entertainment show.
1
The best comment I have heard yet is that Giuliani has sunk to the level of Donald Trump...both are a joke, abad one.
3
Does Baldwin's instructive dictum apply to our President, as well? Not exactly, as he is loved largely and only by those who see him as their personal savior.
Yes, he is crticized constantly. and to no avail. For he has transcended criticism and now answers to no one, as he issues edicts and vetos in lieu of politics and negotiation.
I can see how one might question if he indeed loves America.
Yes, he is crticized constantly. and to no avail. For he has transcended criticism and now answers to no one, as he issues edicts and vetos in lieu of politics and negotiation.
I can see how one might question if he indeed loves America.
3
Did Bush not love America when he used all those signing statements? When his administration called anyone who opposed his Iraq War policies a traitor?
1
People like you are the problem. You believe these things and so they are true.
4
Sadly, in America, somebody's love has become somebody else's hate, and we have let hate destroy boundaries--in the name of love. As intertwined and interdependent as the double helix, love is used to deny hate and hate is used to condemn love.
DuBois' double consciousness which originally framed Negro experience really applies to all of America; its two souls, two "warring ideals," two unreconciled strivings; Its twin and different standards apply daily in the use of force and power, and in the daily conversations of race and power, but also in the realm of the spirit as love and hate.
It was Barack who called for One America. Though it seems he has forgotten, Giuliani would do well to remember Obama's words; embrace their acceptance of diversity in politics and life, and as did St. Paul, redeem himself from judgment, end his persecution, and take refuge in his contrition (as George Wallace did) as proof of the American Promise.
DuBois' double consciousness which originally framed Negro experience really applies to all of America; its two souls, two "warring ideals," two unreconciled strivings; Its twin and different standards apply daily in the use of force and power, and in the daily conversations of race and power, but also in the realm of the spirit as love and hate.
It was Barack who called for One America. Though it seems he has forgotten, Giuliani would do well to remember Obama's words; embrace their acceptance of diversity in politics and life, and as did St. Paul, redeem himself from judgment, end his persecution, and take refuge in his contrition (as George Wallace did) as proof of the American Promise.
14
When Republicans criticise the President it makes ISIL think it's winning by creating dissention.
Also see: The Will to Kill [http://bit.ly/1EsNZpz] on ISIL motives & context. The article describes how ISIL uses a love of killing in the pretext of hate toward America and even its own.
Also see: The Will to Kill [http://bit.ly/1EsNZpz] on ISIL motives & context. The article describes how ISIL uses a love of killing in the pretext of hate toward America and even its own.
3
Obama is the true uniter, not divider.
1
Love requires honesty. You love your spouse as a whole person, acknowledging their faults as well as their strengths and graces. You love your children, and want to help them overcome their obvious problems and weaknesses and find happiness. You can not do this by pretending their problems don't exist.
To love America, you have to accept her problems, her history, and the shameful acts that have been committed and are still being committed in her name by individuals and political factions. Slavery was a historic fact, as was Jim Crow, as is our obscenely incarceration rate, especially as it applies to Black men and women. You have to accept the fact that American exceptionalism includes imperialism, suppression of the rights of citizens of other nations, and covertly conducting wars in places like Central and South America and the Middle East to benefit private interests. To love America is to want to improve it, to help it to live up to its professed ideals and its potential for greatness. To overlook America's faults is not to love her - it is to be too ashamed of her to accept the reality of her imperfections.
Mr. Giuliani does not love America. He loves an image that exists only in his mind, and the mind of others who refuse to accept reality.
To love America, you have to accept her problems, her history, and the shameful acts that have been committed and are still being committed in her name by individuals and political factions. Slavery was a historic fact, as was Jim Crow, as is our obscenely incarceration rate, especially as it applies to Black men and women. You have to accept the fact that American exceptionalism includes imperialism, suppression of the rights of citizens of other nations, and covertly conducting wars in places like Central and South America and the Middle East to benefit private interests. To love America is to want to improve it, to help it to live up to its professed ideals and its potential for greatness. To overlook America's faults is not to love her - it is to be too ashamed of her to accept the reality of her imperfections.
Mr. Giuliani does not love America. He loves an image that exists only in his mind, and the mind of others who refuse to accept reality.
46
Our founding fathers had many great ideas about how The United States should be governed, including, among others, protecting freedom of speech and declaring separation of church and state.
But, our founding fathers were not perfect. Most especially they were unable to renounce immediately and forever the evil practice of human slavery. And it was evil. It was the "original" sin of the United States, although slavery was not invented here. And it has haunted the country through-out it's history. I often believe that so much racism against blacks especially continues today, (I am a middle-aged white man) in part because for some people, and the children they raised, have to soften the evil memory of human slavery and its successor in the US, Jim Crow, by dehumanizing it's black victims and their descendants. This includes the vitriol visited on President Obama, notwithstanding he is one of the few black people in U.S. whose African ancestors were not brought here as slaves.
I hope our country's young people will eventually free us of this but it will take a long time.
But, our founding fathers were not perfect. Most especially they were unable to renounce immediately and forever the evil practice of human slavery. And it was evil. It was the "original" sin of the United States, although slavery was not invented here. And it has haunted the country through-out it's history. I often believe that so much racism against blacks especially continues today, (I am a middle-aged white man) in part because for some people, and the children they raised, have to soften the evil memory of human slavery and its successor in the US, Jim Crow, by dehumanizing it's black victims and their descendants. This includes the vitriol visited on President Obama, notwithstanding he is one of the few black people in U.S. whose African ancestors were not brought here as slaves.
I hope our country's young people will eventually free us of this but it will take a long time.
17
Germany was and is a truly wonderful country. Over many centuries so many brilliant scientists, inventors, and artists. Considering this brilliant history, people should stop whining and criticizing and give this exceptional country a pass on the Holocaust.
12
A pass on the Holocaust? Oh I see your point, what's six million Jews [ many exceptional no doubt] in the course of Germany's brilliant history?
1
In a thousand years....
Eliza -- I read the post as rather good irony. See it?
1
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel," according to Dr. (Sam) Johnson. He probably aimed that at one individual who, apparently, professed his patriotism too blatantly even for the Tory writer’s liking.
Maybe that profession of patriotism was on a par with Giuliani’s “He didn’t live through 9/11—I did.” But there’s something childish about petulant expressions of love for a “country.” If someone disrespects roughly half the population, and regularly makes disparaging remarks about a minority, what is the nature of this “love?” Rather than "childish" maybe I should say "less evolved."
Maybe that profession of patriotism was on a par with Giuliani’s “He didn’t live through 9/11—I did.” But there’s something childish about petulant expressions of love for a “country.” If someone disrespects roughly half the population, and regularly makes disparaging remarks about a minority, what is the nature of this “love?” Rather than "childish" maybe I should say "less evolved."
25
You know you are in trouble when you count Rudy as among your "leaders."
44
PS to my earlier post--- did Abraham Lincoln not love the United States? By Giuliani's logic, he could not have loved it. In my view he helped demonstrate his love of country by helping it abolish slavery. Unfortunately for all, he did not live to help us avoid Jim Crow.
21
If Obama loves America you wouldn't know it from the way he talks. Obama's message to the world seems to be that America is as much to blame for the world's problems as any other bad actor so let's all admit our mistakes and get along.
This is the wrong message to send. Not only is it untrue, but it is counterproductive. Obama's message engenders weakness. The President should be promoting, not denigrating America. Our enemies will not love us because our leader apologizes. They will distain us all the more and seek to take advantage of our weakness which is exactly what Russia, Iran and ISIS are doing now.
This is the wrong message to send. Not only is it untrue, but it is counterproductive. Obama's message engenders weakness. The President should be promoting, not denigrating America. Our enemies will not love us because our leader apologizes. They will distain us all the more and seek to take advantage of our weakness which is exactly what Russia, Iran and ISIS are doing now.
6
If you compared the economic and military strength of the United States with that of Iran and Russia, you would find the results are not even close. Iran's currency has fallen 60% against the dollar since Obama took office. Inflation is running at nearly 20%, one of the highest rates in the world. Russia's car dealerships closed temporarily as their currency came under pressure from plummeting oil prices.
So please, go and try to buy a car in Russia. You'll see which country is weak and which is strong.
So please, go and try to buy a car in Russia. You'll see which country is weak and which is strong.
1
"Obama's message to the world seems to be that America is as much to blame for the world's problems as any other bad actor so let's all admit our mistakes and get along."
Please directly (and without editing) quote one speech where Obama said anything remotely like this.
Why is it that Obama's opposition (most of whom had never spoken to him or listened to one of his speeches) feels free to decide what he thinks, feels, and put words in his mouth that he never said?
Please directly (and without editing) quote one speech where Obama said anything remotely like this.
Why is it that Obama's opposition (most of whom had never spoken to him or listened to one of his speeches) feels free to decide what he thinks, feels, and put words in his mouth that he never said?
1
As usual, no facts to back up this "argument," – just insults.
4
I've spent years trying to understand the Republican vitriol against this president and I still don't get it.
When our Congressional representative, Chris Collins (R-NY) visited my daughter's high school last week, he used the venue to attack Obama, describing him as terrible leader, who had done great damage to our country, and who history will evaluate as among the worst presidents our nation has ever had.
Leaving aside all the evidence to the contrary, what makes this guy think that he has a right and a responsibility to say things like that in a high school? What excuse does he have for trashing the President of the United States in a public school? Does he care nothing for the dignity of the office, or for civility and respect in public discourse? Is that the vision of democracy that he wants to transfer to a new generation of voters?
As I said, I don't get it. It's as though Republicans think that they alone speak for "America." How about a little respect for the Americans who voted for Obama? Or, if not that, then at least some decorum and civility.
When our Congressional representative, Chris Collins (R-NY) visited my daughter's high school last week, he used the venue to attack Obama, describing him as terrible leader, who had done great damage to our country, and who history will evaluate as among the worst presidents our nation has ever had.
Leaving aside all the evidence to the contrary, what makes this guy think that he has a right and a responsibility to say things like that in a high school? What excuse does he have for trashing the President of the United States in a public school? Does he care nothing for the dignity of the office, or for civility and respect in public discourse? Is that the vision of democracy that he wants to transfer to a new generation of voters?
As I said, I don't get it. It's as though Republicans think that they alone speak for "America." How about a little respect for the Americans who voted for Obama? Or, if not that, then at least some decorum and civility.
407
Thank you, Leonard. Well put.
3
If President Obama was white, had a common surname, and a slight southern drawl, none of these attacks would occur. Conservatives, especially southern conservatives, can't bear the idea of a Black man with a Black family in the "White" House.
6
Thanks for this information, Leonard. Vile behavior. Let's hope the high school students and their parents feel the way you do. Did anyone - teachers or anyone - speak up to contradict him in public after he spoke?
5
This whole "who loves America more" is just so silly, except when it's not!
I find that people who claim to be more patriotic, or more religious, or know better are really the same people who claim they have a Jewish friend, or have a Black friend, or have Hispanics working for them.
They are just bigots, haters, and they long for the good old days when Colored folk knew their place, when women didn't vote or work, when Jews weren't permitted in their clubs or communities, when gays hid their sexuality, and they still had their grandfather's while robe and hood in their closet.
Bigotry and hatred are alive and well in America! We must continue th fight against both
,
I find that people who claim to be more patriotic, or more religious, or know better are really the same people who claim they have a Jewish friend, or have a Black friend, or have Hispanics working for them.
They are just bigots, haters, and they long for the good old days when Colored folk knew their place, when women didn't vote or work, when Jews weren't permitted in their clubs or communities, when gays hid their sexuality, and they still had their grandfather's while robe and hood in their closet.
Bigotry and hatred are alive and well in America! We must continue th fight against both
,
48
How exactly did this turn into racism?
1
Because people like Mr. Giuliani would never dare say nor has said anything so bigoted about any other of our Presisents. People like Mr. Giuliani choose to make all of their "coded" comments about President Obama, who is black and only because he is black.
Anyone can oppose, criticize, or differ with President Obama's policies but when you start questioning whether he is "American enough" or was "raised differently then us" you are now stepping over the line and speaking in coded bigotry and hate.
Millions of bigoted Americans couldn't accept that President Obama got elected in 2008 and are now incensed that he was reelected in 2012!
Anyone can oppose, criticize, or differ with President Obama's policies but when you start questioning whether he is "American enough" or was "raised differently then us" you are now stepping over the line and speaking in coded bigotry and hate.
Millions of bigoted Americans couldn't accept that President Obama got elected in 2008 and are now incensed that he was reelected in 2012!
3
If school calls and says my son got caught selling cocaine to younger students, I'm not going to defend him and call him "exceptional".
14
“I love this country, and so do you, and so does John McCain.” Said President Obama during the 2008 Democratic National Convention. What a contrast!!!
61
Love this county? You do have to wonder about someone who would endanger this country by selecting Sarah Palin to a heartbeat away from the Oval Office.
3
If you believe in the idea of America and think about the Preamble of our Constitution, which is the basis of what our government is all about, it is hard to understand how today's far right, often religiously obsessed conservatives can look in the mirror and say. I am an American. I love America.
It cannot be done unless one is willingly or ignorantly blind to what that Preamble is all about: Change and Hope.
It cannot be done unless one is willingly or ignorantly blind to what that Preamble is all about: Change and Hope.
19
As a naturalized citizen the first shock one receives to the system is at the time of oath taking when you are asked if you will die for this country, ready to pick up arms and defend the country....something to that effect. By that definition our own David Brooks's son is not a patriot. He would rather fight for Israel than America (no they are not both the same things even as mch as conservatives would have us believe). Has mr Giuliani fought for the country, defended us from imagined invisible enemies? Has mr Scott walker?
21
President George W. Bush loved America so much he sent 4,500 young men and women to their deaths in Iraq based on lies.
97
In case you missed the article in this paper the NYT's the CIA purchased the WMD to keep them from being used. A lie who's lying the NYT's.
When Giuliani ran against New York's first African mayor, David Dinkins, he called him a washroom attendant in front of a rioting mob of NYC policemen in front of City Hall. As far as his views on race, that is all you ever need to know.
32
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
Samuel Johnson - April 7, 1775
Rudy Giuliani and his GOP blowhard cousins are the greatest fake patriots the nation has ever seen because they attack the Presidency through character assassination, the Senate by filibuster, the House by gerrymander, the national treasury through massive tax cuts for the wealthy and the common man's vote through voter suppression laws and they wrap all of their sedition in false patriotism, flag-waving, disinformation and war-mongering.
It's a largely winning strategy, but a strategy that couldn't be more unpatriotic.
Paying your taxes is patriotic and I am happy do to so.
That idea is unconceivable to Rudy Giuliani and the seditionist right-wing, who spend the vast majority of time bankrupting state treasuries and the US Treasury with nihilistic tax cuts that shred the entire fabric of society.
Rudy Giuliani doesn't love anyone or anything but himself.
Samuel Johnson - April 7, 1775
Rudy Giuliani and his GOP blowhard cousins are the greatest fake patriots the nation has ever seen because they attack the Presidency through character assassination, the Senate by filibuster, the House by gerrymander, the national treasury through massive tax cuts for the wealthy and the common man's vote through voter suppression laws and they wrap all of their sedition in false patriotism, flag-waving, disinformation and war-mongering.
It's a largely winning strategy, but a strategy that couldn't be more unpatriotic.
Paying your taxes is patriotic and I am happy do to so.
That idea is unconceivable to Rudy Giuliani and the seditionist right-wing, who spend the vast majority of time bankrupting state treasuries and the US Treasury with nihilistic tax cuts that shred the entire fabric of society.
Rudy Giuliani doesn't love anyone or anything but himself.
493
True that, ask his two ex-wives, one of whom was his second cousin. He got that marriage annulled on the risible ground that he didn't know his wife of 14 years was his cousin, which enabled him to marry his then-mistress, Donna Hanover in the Catholic Church. Hanover found out her marriage was over from the City Hall Press Corps. That was even more cowardly than his excuses for making himself unavailable for service in Viet Nam.
8
Giuliani has obviously not read or listened to any of President Obama's speeches because "American exceptionalism" are words that he invokes ALL the time. "America's mayor" needs to get a new job since he's really worn out his "9/11 spokesman" schtick.
13
Giuliani's comments have traction because every utterance, every action by this president oozes with contempt for us and the nation. From his "apology tour" in the Mideast at the start of his presidency to his odd intrusions into local matters like Ferguson and absolute refusal to name our enemies as enemies, he has been out of sync with the majority of the country.
Barack Obama would have really benefitted from serving his country in the armed forces when he was young: he would have met more of his fellow citizens and he would have learned at close hand what makes this country so valuable, so indispensable to the world.
As it is, he only sees flaws and he only knows criticism. If he was really concerned, he'd invite Rudy to the White House and have a "beer summit" to discuss how to better address his image and the things we need to do together. But he wouldn't do that, so as hard as it may be to accept it, Rudy's right.
Barack Obama would have really benefitted from serving his country in the armed forces when he was young: he would have met more of his fellow citizens and he would have learned at close hand what makes this country so valuable, so indispensable to the world.
As it is, he only sees flaws and he only knows criticism. If he was really concerned, he'd invite Rudy to the White House and have a "beer summit" to discuss how to better address his image and the things we need to do together. But he wouldn't do that, so as hard as it may be to accept it, Rudy's right.
6
I don't hear the contempt you do. Consider that you are hearing through your own filtered views which don't necessarily reflect anything like an objective truth.
9
The president did not engage in the infamous apology tour to which you refer. He did try to repair relations with countries who felt that a rapacious wolf had been clawing at their doors under the his predecessor's sheepskin of indolent ignorance. Rudy is an opportunist and a fraud who has chosen to back a lame horse. As Rudy always reminds us in every speech, "Be afraid, be very afraid."
8
Rudy's right. Obama does loves his conception of this country:
a country, made by him into an imitation of one of smaller,
socially homogeneous European ones during one of their more
Socialist periods (i.e. before their necessary version of Thatcherism).
But what he hates is a country that does not have a very ruthless
regime of government take from the middle, give to the poor,
reap the votes of the poor. The rulers of such a country actually
need to keep a large number of people poor. The cannot understand
that a country cannot spend the poor into the middle class through
redistribution ... it needs economic growth, which comes from the very top.
I saw Rudy's speech on Youtube. It was a great one.
a country, made by him into an imitation of one of smaller,
socially homogeneous European ones during one of their more
Socialist periods (i.e. before their necessary version of Thatcherism).
But what he hates is a country that does not have a very ruthless
regime of government take from the middle, give to the poor,
reap the votes of the poor. The rulers of such a country actually
need to keep a large number of people poor. The cannot understand
that a country cannot spend the poor into the middle class through
redistribution ... it needs economic growth, which comes from the very top.
I saw Rudy's speech on Youtube. It was a great one.
1
Of course the President doesn't love his country. After all, unlike the supremely patriotic President Bush, he didn't bankrupt the nation, didn't cut taxes for billionaires, and, most tellingly, did not, in his little Mesopotamian kerfuffle, kill more Americans than Al Qaeda itself.
If that ain't love, what is?
If that ain't love, what is?
32
Yes, I think Republicans are going to love this country into third world status. My definition of love of country is to pay my fair share to ensure citizens have decent paying jobs so they aren't homeless or hungry, kids are educated and our infrastructure is strong and supports a healthy environment.
21
People like Rudy Giuliani is whats wrong with America.
29
There is no doubt that the rich feel America is exceptional. They get to keep more of their money due to relatively low taxes, and just in case they can move it off shore and avoid paying taxes. We lag in some important areas including health care and education that are predictors of future exceptionalism. It is the President's job to point out where we can do better. People like Giuliani are really the enemy of exceptionalism because they want to keep us focused on the past rather than dealing with the realities of the present. Also, when Giuliani says he is not like us, he is so right. Giuliani's father was a criminal who served time and then apparently worked for the mob.
14
"All men are created equal", really? If one equates that quote to a mountain, we've just barely gone half way to the top. For those who truly love this country, to admire all its achievements and look unflinchingly at all its faults, past and present requires courage and intelligence. Mr. Obama's comments has upset those that believe this country to be perfect, when in reality we have a long, long way to go to achieve that goal. Studying its history reveals injustices perpetrated by white elitists, including some of our founders who penned those words, on unfortunate human beings. Yes Mr. Gulliani, many in this country have not been raised as you claim you've been, but still love living here despite the injustices they still face. Disagreeing with Mr. Obamas politics is one issue. but to claim his lack of love for this country is sheer ignorance and racist.
14
thank you Sir Charles once again for your excellent dissection of an issue... i would like to add that to me this was not a racist comment at all which is how many in the media first pounced on it... and thankfully you did not mention this potential motivating aspect... no, to me it was a direct insult... how dare he or others know what is in my heart!!! It is as you say. There are a group of people who believe that no one loves the USofA the way they do. and i like the comment of conservativism = preservation. Preservation of a world that no longer exists. And yes, you can still love something and wish it were better as you suggest and indeed to me that is love. I want to make it better i love it so much. but i took this comment from the former mayor as an insult to me personally (a white middle aged male).
8
Those that think American exceptionalism is a reality appear to be in the minority. The largest number is only 40% by age and 37% by political party. So I guess Rudy in in the minority and therefore, it seems to me that Rudy cannot actually speak to the subject.
5
Being a vile conman is the business model for otherwise now useless conservatives to keep the flow of freebie money from the more gullible among their rightist audience flowing into their pockets. It is just the 21st century's Republican adaptation of the Nixonian "Southern Strategy" edict, with a little extra income added.
7
What's been most damaging to the president's acceptance isn't his life story: it's his performance as president. Millions of us on the right never needed to move on from the birth record and Islamic entertainments, as they were never more than distractions conjured by those who insist on despising a president irrationally. Reagan and Dubya suffered similarly, but for different excuses.
In his accustomed ham-handed manner, Giuliani stole a march on the many analysts who will be saying the same thing in a few years, as we settle back to try to understand what eight years of Barack Obama really meant. I'd intended not to go into it myself until we were all armchairing his presidency two years hence ... but, as I say, Rudy beat us all to the punch, at least two years early for good manners.
What we've sadly learned is that when we elect a U.S. president from a community many Americans have despised for centuries, and sought to keep down by the lash and shackle, the noose, the ballot box and the ghetto, it shouldn't surprise us that he might not be dedicated to defending what many regard as American values. This is a very sad reality.
And I'm afraid that until we mainstream ALL our minorities, economically as well as emotionally, we will understandably not find in them a passionate dedication to an exalted view of America -- whether you hail from the right OR the left.
Blame Rudy for a big mouth -- heaven knows enough already have; but don't blame him for lack of insight.
In his accustomed ham-handed manner, Giuliani stole a march on the many analysts who will be saying the same thing in a few years, as we settle back to try to understand what eight years of Barack Obama really meant. I'd intended not to go into it myself until we were all armchairing his presidency two years hence ... but, as I say, Rudy beat us all to the punch, at least two years early for good manners.
What we've sadly learned is that when we elect a U.S. president from a community many Americans have despised for centuries, and sought to keep down by the lash and shackle, the noose, the ballot box and the ghetto, it shouldn't surprise us that he might not be dedicated to defending what many regard as American values. This is a very sad reality.
And I'm afraid that until we mainstream ALL our minorities, economically as well as emotionally, we will understandably not find in them a passionate dedication to an exalted view of America -- whether you hail from the right OR the left.
Blame Rudy for a big mouth -- heaven knows enough already have; but don't blame him for lack of insight.
28
"What we've sadly learned is that when we elect a U.S. president from a community many Americans have despised for centuries, and sought to keep down by the lash and shackle, the noose, the ballot box and the ghetto, it shouldn't surprise us that he might not be dedicated to defending what many regard as American values. This is a very sad reality."
Please provide specific examples of this "sad reality." Obama has barely spoken about race during either his campaign or his administration (less than ten times), let alone made policy based upon it. When you can tell me the ACA subsidies apply only to African Americans, or that the justice system in this country tends to favor blacks, that would go a long way in convincing me what you say is true. Otherwise, you are making a fact-free statement.
Please provide specific examples of this "sad reality." Obama has barely spoken about race during either his campaign or his administration (less than ten times), let alone made policy based upon it. When you can tell me the ACA subsidies apply only to African Americans, or that the justice system in this country tends to favor blacks, that would go a long way in convincing me what you say is true. Otherwise, you are making a fact-free statement.
10
Richard, if I understand you correctly, it would follow that the only suitable candidates for President in your estimation would be White men from privileged backgrounds, those without the stigma of being a racial or ethnic minority (or a woman). Poor Obama, even the Columbia undergraduate and Harvard Law School degrees weren't enough to remove the enmity and bitterness. Next thing you know, we'll hear talk of reparations for slavery, Native American reservations, and Japanese internment--watch out White America, he's coming after you! Thank goodness we have folks like Rudy to point out the dangers in our midst.
12
Rudy didn't offer an explanation in the way that you have because he doesn't believe it. He took a cheap shot at the President in order to please the 60 right wing business and media persons who comprised his audience. Do you honestly think he was going to stand there and lay out the arguments that you offer?
5
It's called the politics of selfishness. That's what this conservative crowd at this dinner represents.
21
There are many people who prefer their leaders to be cheerleaders. These people don't like challenges. They like to be told that they are good.
Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were fundamentally cheerleaders. Neither of them demanded that American's rise up to meet great challenges. Even in war we were told that everything would be easy. We could accomplish anything because we were so great. Sure, for lots of people noticed that things didn't look that great in the rearview mirror, but the American people mostly went along with it.
Barak Obama is not a perfect President but he does at least aspire leadership. He often challenges America to live up to its own hype if only just a little. That is what sticks in the craw of people like Giuliani. People like Obama challenge him to achieve greatness, but greatness is difficult.
Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush were fundamentally cheerleaders. Neither of them demanded that American's rise up to meet great challenges. Even in war we were told that everything would be easy. We could accomplish anything because we were so great. Sure, for lots of people noticed that things didn't look that great in the rearview mirror, but the American people mostly went along with it.
Barak Obama is not a perfect President but he does at least aspire leadership. He often challenges America to live up to its own hype if only just a little. That is what sticks in the craw of people like Giuliani. People like Obama challenge him to achieve greatness, but greatness is difficult.
160
"Neither of them demanded that American's rise up to meet great challenges."
Unless by rising up, they meant buying more stuff.
Unless by rising up, they meant buying more stuff.
No doubt he intended an oblique slur on Mr. Obama's Kenyan father, but Giuliani's comment on Obama's upbringing actually compares the two mothers, since Giuliani's own father, like Obama's, was absent during part of his childhood.
23
If Giuliani hadn't invited a comparison of upbringing I'd never have known Giuliani's father spent time in Sing Sing for felonies.
23
What could be more proudly Italian American than having your connected felon father in Sing Sing?
Now that's American!
Now that's American!
4
Obama is a narcissist; if America loves him, he loves America. In 2008 he really loved America (except for the bitter clingers). In 2015? Not so much love. As the results of some of his decisions- the Middle East and Obamacare for example- become clear, America is not quite as enamored with Obama and as a result, he of us.
That is why all the hysteria over off-the-record remarks made by Guiliani at a private dinner. Looking at why Guiliani might think what he said exposes Obama's decisions to scrutiny, And scrutiny of the consequences of Obama decisions is the last thing his supporters want.
That is why all the hysteria over off-the-record remarks made by Guiliani at a private dinner. Looking at why Guiliani might think what he said exposes Obama's decisions to scrutiny, And scrutiny of the consequences of Obama decisions is the last thing his supporters want.
6
JB...It's not scrutiny so much as just plain bad taste. Civility is no longer part of the discourse. Questioning patriotism of a president is bad form. Yet, reading "American Dynasty" by Kevin Phillips, is a real eye opener concerning the patriotism of the leaders of the right (the Bush's and their cronies) for the past multiple generations. Profit seems to be their notion of idealism, loudly proclaiming "freedom" but only for themselves. I know someone who attended that Walker dinner. From their point of view they are struggling, yet they could afford the dinner. Amazing. It's all a matter of perspective I think. Maybe they could afford the dinner, but are not quite in the .001 percent! so there is cause for resentment.
30
Obama loves the "bitter clingers", too, jb.
He even loves you.
He even loves you.
14
Yet you are unable to articulate any of this "scrutiny" yourself. Why? Is it because you blindly believe the talking points fed to you?
6
It is ironic beyond measure that the phrase "American exceptionalism" was first uttered by Josef Stalin in reference to disagreements over the role of the Communist Party in the US (as opposed to say, France).
It has of course taken on a different meaning, one that bodes ill for our future. We were exceptional in that we instituted a system of government expressly designed to secure the "consent of the governed" (not without some ideas from the ancient Greeks and the Iroquois Nation), but it is questionable whether we have succeeded. Even then, It was far from a "perfect union" then (e.g. Slavery and property qualification for voting) as acknowledged in the Preamble to the Constitution, and it seems to be less perfect every day.
Some of us are unwilling to see the truth: that we all remain human with the flaws in that condition. That position can be maintained only by massive denial and all human history (which we can't escape, alas) shows that ultimately what is denied becomes ever more powerful. And when people use insufficient patriotism (or "love") as a political weapon we are headed back to the dark days of McCarthyism, or worse. Don't think it can't happen here.
It has of course taken on a different meaning, one that bodes ill for our future. We were exceptional in that we instituted a system of government expressly designed to secure the "consent of the governed" (not without some ideas from the ancient Greeks and the Iroquois Nation), but it is questionable whether we have succeeded. Even then, It was far from a "perfect union" then (e.g. Slavery and property qualification for voting) as acknowledged in the Preamble to the Constitution, and it seems to be less perfect every day.
Some of us are unwilling to see the truth: that we all remain human with the flaws in that condition. That position can be maintained only by massive denial and all human history (which we can't escape, alas) shows that ultimately what is denied becomes ever more powerful. And when people use insufficient patriotism (or "love") as a political weapon we are headed back to the dark days of McCarthyism, or worse. Don't think it can't happen here.
37
Coined by Stalin? Then I agree, it is ironic beyond measure.
Even more so when it is used as a badge of self-identification.
Even more so when it is used as a badge of self-identification.
I wonder if what Giuliani did in the immediate days following 9/11 was because he loved America or because he was buying future propaganda material.
21
As a Roman Catholic, he has been married thrice. Only those close to him, his family, know the real him, we should ask them what they think of him, does he love them?
3
I live on the outskirts of a small town (Clarkston) that is a U.N. designated refugee destination, so I live with daily reminders of the things I've always loved most about this country: The Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island and naturalization ceremonies (there are a lot of those here). They come from all over - Africa, the Middle East, eastern Europe, Southeast Asia - and since none of them drive when they first get here the sidewalks are busy with pedestrians. I love America when I drive through the town and see this wonderful mixture of people who have almost all escaped poverty and oppression of some kind and are here with a new hope for a better life. I love America when I see, as I did recently, a grizzled redneck get out of his car at a busy intersection, stop traffic and escort a confused and frightened newly arrived Muslim woman across the street.
This has always been the best thing about this country and for the most part we have been better about this than any other country in the world. But it's a small town.
In the course of my lifetime I've seen political debate descend from reasoned discourse to ugly slurs, fear-mongering and transparent pandering to the basest of instincts. And that I hate and it makes me despair at times.
I have no doubt our president loves his country. It's not his job to loudly proclaim that; it's his job to try fix what's wrong and maintain what's good. That's the job of all our elected officials; some seem to have forgotten that.
This has always been the best thing about this country and for the most part we have been better about this than any other country in the world. But it's a small town.
In the course of my lifetime I've seen political debate descend from reasoned discourse to ugly slurs, fear-mongering and transparent pandering to the basest of instincts. And that I hate and it makes me despair at times.
I have no doubt our president loves his country. It's not his job to loudly proclaim that; it's his job to try fix what's wrong and maintain what's good. That's the job of all our elected officials; some seem to have forgotten that.
432
I have often loved the Atlanta area. One of many lasting memories is seeing an elderly white woman, dress, pearls, and white gloves, sitting on a bus stop bench having a laughing, animated conversation with a scary looking young black guy...
7
Most, not some.
Beautifully stated, sir. Thank you.
1
Giuliani's idiotic, inflammatory comments earned a ''Four Pinocchios'' rating by the Washington Post Fact Checker:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2015/02/22/giulianis...
The substance of what Giluliani said is easily refuted by the written record--the President has often described his story as one that could only happen in the country that we love. Giuliani is not careful about the facts--he is simply stirring the pot.
What was more interesting was the reaction of other Republicans. Surging presidential hopeful Scott Walker ''isn't sure'' whether the President is a Christian and Representative Darrell Issa ( he of the endless, pointless investigations) said Giuliani ''did a service''with his comments.
What will Republicans do when they no longer have President Obama to falsely vilify?
They apparently can't pass a bill of any kind in the Congress they now control, their front runner for President in 2016 won't talk about the wars his brother started (and Jeb uses the same ''brain'' trust) while other pretenders push extreme arguments to win the base while turning off the general electorate.
When, like Giuliani, you turn to making things up, we are badly served. We need to move ahead, and it would be nice to have a contest in which solving the problems we face takes more prominence than the irresponsible rhetoric of unhinged partisans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2015/02/22/giulianis...
The substance of what Giluliani said is easily refuted by the written record--the President has often described his story as one that could only happen in the country that we love. Giuliani is not careful about the facts--he is simply stirring the pot.
What was more interesting was the reaction of other Republicans. Surging presidential hopeful Scott Walker ''isn't sure'' whether the President is a Christian and Representative Darrell Issa ( he of the endless, pointless investigations) said Giuliani ''did a service''with his comments.
What will Republicans do when they no longer have President Obama to falsely vilify?
They apparently can't pass a bill of any kind in the Congress they now control, their front runner for President in 2016 won't talk about the wars his brother started (and Jeb uses the same ''brain'' trust) while other pretenders push extreme arguments to win the base while turning off the general electorate.
When, like Giuliani, you turn to making things up, we are badly served. We need to move ahead, and it would be nice to have a contest in which solving the problems we face takes more prominence than the irresponsible rhetoric of unhinged partisans.
713
"What will Republicans do when they no longer have President Obama to falsely vilify?"
That's easy. Hillary Clinton is first in line, but you name any Democrat and they'll do it. It's what they do.
That's easy. Hillary Clinton is first in line, but you name any Democrat and they'll do it. It's what they do.
11
I cannot 'like' this comment enough, especially the last paragraph. That's the fairest description of the last 6 years I've read anywhere.
2
Disgraceful! And what did the school administrators and the parents of those children have to say about the poisoning of
young people's minds with gross distortions of truth and wild
suppositions about the president's state of mind? What was the reaction of the students themselves?
Charles, this is one of your best pieces ever. Thank you!
young people's minds with gross distortions of truth and wild
suppositions about the president's state of mind? What was the reaction of the students themselves?
Charles, this is one of your best pieces ever. Thank you!
I find the idea of American exceptionalism repugnant. In part, for me, that has to do with the fact that the right wing assumes in that idea that God specially blesses this country over every other.
I love my country and served in the U.S. Navy, but it was and is far from perfect. We become a better country when we are honest with ourselves and the world about not only what is wonderful, but also what is and/or has been awful, e.g., slavery. I am proud to have a President to attempts to pull us back from a road where only self-aggrandizement is permitted to a more honest assessment of our strengths and flaws.
I love my country and served in the U.S. Navy, but it was and is far from perfect. We become a better country when we are honest with ourselves and the world about not only what is wonderful, but also what is and/or has been awful, e.g., slavery. I am proud to have a President to attempts to pull us back from a road where only self-aggrandizement is permitted to a more honest assessment of our strengths and flaws.
450
Excellent Anne-Marie. I wonder sometimes if those like Giuliani get a call from a school administrator that their child was caught smoking pot in the bathroom - would they defend the child and proclaim they've done nothing wrong?
5
Slavery was dealt with in the 1860's.
1
Guiliani's notion has traction, because the audience that he was addressing was neither conservative nor liberal. His audience is motivated by an impression of what he means by America, without him having to define it. It is an impression prompted by a vague myth of origin and a conviction that the myth and its original ideal are under attack. This way of thinking stems from shifting demographics that are both personified and exacerbated by the President's parentage. The Mayor's audience sees the threat coming from both the left (repressive government) and the right (economic inequality). The solution to the threat from the right has not yet been well-defined. The solution to the threat from the left is seen to lie in preservation of whatever remains of white supremacy: through gerrymandered legislative districts, voter registration suppression, and closing the path to citizenship.
18
I just finished reading "The Brothers" a story about John Foster Douglas and his brother Allen. John was Secretary of State and Allen was Director of the CIA under the Eisenhower administration.
The damage inflicted on countries that not believe in their manichean view of the world.
Read it and you will question American exceptionalism.
The damage inflicted on countries that not believe in their manichean view of the world.
Read it and you will question American exceptionalism.
12
Forget about a forgotten mayor trying to insinuate himself back into the national discourse to sell his books. He did stumble upon a contentious point, which is what loving one's country means.
We seem to be in danger of reverting to the days of the "America, Love It or Leave It" bumper stickers which meant that any criticism of anything American meant failure to love America. When we love something or someone, we want the best for it/him/her. We love our children, we try to make them better, teach them right from wrong, we work to provide them with better schools and health care and clean air and nutritious food and safe environments. We love our neighborhood, we work to keep it clean and safe. We can't achieve those goals by pretending that our children or our neighborhood are perfect.
The Army's recruiting posters used to say "Be All You Can Be." Because I love my country, I want my country to be all it can be, and the best it can be. We are not in a production of "Oklahoma" claiming that "Everything's up-to-date in Kansas City, they've gone as far as they can go." We can go further, we can do better, we can be better.
Any other attitude is not love of country, it's narcissism, and it reflects insecurity no matter how large the flags we wave or how loudly we chant "USA, USA!"
We seem to be in danger of reverting to the days of the "America, Love It or Leave It" bumper stickers which meant that any criticism of anything American meant failure to love America. When we love something or someone, we want the best for it/him/her. We love our children, we try to make them better, teach them right from wrong, we work to provide them with better schools and health care and clean air and nutritious food and safe environments. We love our neighborhood, we work to keep it clean and safe. We can't achieve those goals by pretending that our children or our neighborhood are perfect.
The Army's recruiting posters used to say "Be All You Can Be." Because I love my country, I want my country to be all it can be, and the best it can be. We are not in a production of "Oklahoma" claiming that "Everything's up-to-date in Kansas City, they've gone as far as they can go." We can go further, we can do better, we can be better.
Any other attitude is not love of country, it's narcissism, and it reflects insecurity no matter how large the flags we wave or how loudly we chant "USA, USA!"
49
Love as a verb with a country—America—being the object is an inappropriate combination. An obvious correct usage is Love between mother and child. America has a 200+ year ever-changing history: some of which, in part, is noble, and some not so much.
America’s governmental structure is based on the work of European philosophers John Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, Kant, and so on. America’s forefathers adopted these ideas imperfectly.
1. Yes, America has a Bill of Rights but no Bill of Responsibilities, perhaps leading its citizens to think they have no need to contribute, just take what they can for themselves. No love there.
2. Our Legislative Branch is broken, and fails to carry out its basic responsibility to check the power of the Executive, especially to start wars. Congress requires a complete reorganization (forget the Senate & House) and repopulation with term limits, new minimum criteria for intelligence, no lobbying allowed by special interest groups, and perhaps chosen randomly to serve, like jury duty.
So, does Giuliani love the non-American philosophers, or perhaps the American slave-owning forefathers? Which America does Giuliani love: the one in 1825 or 1862 or 1915 or 1946? And what criteria does he use to separate lovable from non-lovable countries? Of the around 205 countries in the world does his criteria compel him to ‘love’ others? Does he ‘love’ countries that once existed such as the Greeks, Tibetans, Venetians, and also which meet his criteria?
America’s governmental structure is based on the work of European philosophers John Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, Kant, and so on. America’s forefathers adopted these ideas imperfectly.
1. Yes, America has a Bill of Rights but no Bill of Responsibilities, perhaps leading its citizens to think they have no need to contribute, just take what they can for themselves. No love there.
2. Our Legislative Branch is broken, and fails to carry out its basic responsibility to check the power of the Executive, especially to start wars. Congress requires a complete reorganization (forget the Senate & House) and repopulation with term limits, new minimum criteria for intelligence, no lobbying allowed by special interest groups, and perhaps chosen randomly to serve, like jury duty.
So, does Giuliani love the non-American philosophers, or perhaps the American slave-owning forefathers? Which America does Giuliani love: the one in 1825 or 1862 or 1915 or 1946? And what criteria does he use to separate lovable from non-lovable countries? Of the around 205 countries in the world does his criteria compel him to ‘love’ others? Does he ‘love’ countries that once existed such as the Greeks, Tibetans, Venetians, and also which meet his criteria?
7
Obama Cares!! That is why he pushed through the Affordable Care Act when he did, knowing full well exactly what he was doing.
Beyond this, he may currently be disenchanted with our lawmakers in general, due to the fact that they have basically stonewalled every attempt he has made to bring forward ideas that would benefit the majority of our citizens. Of course, this is what they are required to do by their masters.
Beyond this, he may currently be disenchanted with our lawmakers in general, due to the fact that they have basically stonewalled every attempt he has made to bring forward ideas that would benefit the majority of our citizens. Of course, this is what they are required to do by their masters.
13
Where was the love of country, when Rudy dodged Vietnam with 5 or 6 deferments.
151
Channeling Leona Helmsley and Mitt Romney--that is for the "little people" to do.
16
taylor@ Good point...There is so much on Rudy Giuliani from his tenure as mayor it is astounding. How they declared him "America's Mayor" was beyond belief .The media gave him that title, not NYer's.
If only America knew the real Giuliani. He is a 3rd rate politician,an immoral man. Look it up....
NYer's when it relates to David Dinkins the first black mayor of NYC, think of his administration as being a failed administration when it was Giuliani that benefitted politically from all of the policies that Dinkins implemented. Not one instance of corruption. Even the prior mayor Koch had corruption and of course Giuliani too. His police commissioner Bernard Kerik, sent to federal prison in collusion with mobsters. Yes,Dinkins made mistakes, but they treated him as they do Pres. Obama as inconsequential. Heaping all the trite comments made for hundreds of years about blacks by whites.
Giuliani is a farce and a racist ....period
If only America knew the real Giuliani. He is a 3rd rate politician,an immoral man. Look it up....
NYer's when it relates to David Dinkins the first black mayor of NYC, think of his administration as being a failed administration when it was Giuliani that benefitted politically from all of the policies that Dinkins implemented. Not one instance of corruption. Even the prior mayor Koch had corruption and of course Giuliani too. His police commissioner Bernard Kerik, sent to federal prison in collusion with mobsters. Yes,Dinkins made mistakes, but they treated him as they do Pres. Obama as inconsequential. Heaping all the trite comments made for hundreds of years about blacks by whites.
Giuliani is a farce and a racist ....period
3
If one were to read Jefferson, Franklin and Adams one would discover what is American exceptionalism.
One would discover that America was founded by men who believed that divine providence was not a belief worthy of the enlightenment and the new nation they were founding.
They did not believe that being born to the right parents made you king or baron. The founding fathers did not believe that fate or God decided the destiny of the nation as Shakespeare had said "the problems are not in the stars they are in ourselves."
The God of Jefferson, Franklin and Adams created humans and watched as nature took its course and the nation they founded was supposed to do the same. Too many of us believe in providence not design.
Jefferson Adams and Franklin could never pledge allegience to a nation that had the "under God" statement in it pledge their God left humans in absolute control.
America is not a testament to God it is a testament to humanity.
One would discover that America was founded by men who believed that divine providence was not a belief worthy of the enlightenment and the new nation they were founding.
They did not believe that being born to the right parents made you king or baron. The founding fathers did not believe that fate or God decided the destiny of the nation as Shakespeare had said "the problems are not in the stars they are in ourselves."
The God of Jefferson, Franklin and Adams created humans and watched as nature took its course and the nation they founded was supposed to do the same. Too many of us believe in providence not design.
Jefferson Adams and Franklin could never pledge allegience to a nation that had the "under God" statement in it pledge their God left humans in absolute control.
America is not a testament to God it is a testament to humanity.
620
That is the very best response to the question of patriotism I've read.
6
And who was the agent of the "design" you speak of?
1
The American exceptionalism of Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams excluded women's suffrage, displaced Native Americans from their ancestral homelands, and by avoiding debate accepted the institution of slavery and all its related evils (e.g. forced separation of children from parents, denial of education to minority children, and compelling children to work). From Puritan times to present time, America has been challenged by the hope of building the "City on the Hill which cannot be hid". Hope by its nature both inspires and comforts through its partial realization (e.g. President Obama's First Inaugural). America's hope accepts our national imperfections but is not limited by them, rather, it is like John Wesley's idea, "we are perfected and always perfecting". America is a good work in process.
1
Giuliani is a has been irrelevant former politician in desperate need of attention. Would it not have been better to ignore him?
26
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"
Samuel Johnson
Samuel Johnson
51
Rudy Giuliani is addicted to the spotlight; an urban version of Lonesome Rhodes in "A Face In The Crowd" (Andy Griffith's finest hour).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4740dqLktqE
Just wait. His life story is destined to end the same way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4740dqLktqE
Just wait. His life story is destined to end the same way.
9
The notion of American Exceptionalism has done far more damage than good, both to ourselves and our neighbors.
It has led to a foreign policy view that turns to military power as a first response and that ignores and even derides the values of diplomacy and internationalism. It is the mindset that continues to tout the Iraq war on terms of our "successes" and that would fence in our own country, as if it were a gated community.
At home, American Exceptionalism has morphed into a desiccated outlook that justifies without reflection the status quo in all things and that opposes those changes that might make us truly exceptional.
It would define the concept of patriotism -- indeed of what an American is -- so narrowly as to accommodate only itself. In this view, anyone who sees things differently -- or even looks differently -- is not part of the "real America" and therefore not worthy of consideration. Robbing them of their vote is not only justified, it is necessary.
This may what Rudy Giuliani loves. It is a far cry from exceptional.
It has led to a foreign policy view that turns to military power as a first response and that ignores and even derides the values of diplomacy and internationalism. It is the mindset that continues to tout the Iraq war on terms of our "successes" and that would fence in our own country, as if it were a gated community.
At home, American Exceptionalism has morphed into a desiccated outlook that justifies without reflection the status quo in all things and that opposes those changes that might make us truly exceptional.
It would define the concept of patriotism -- indeed of what an American is -- so narrowly as to accommodate only itself. In this view, anyone who sees things differently -- or even looks differently -- is not part of the "real America" and therefore not worthy of consideration. Robbing them of their vote is not only justified, it is necessary.
This may what Rudy Giuliani loves. It is a far cry from exceptional.
19
Love? Haven't we rung out this rag yet? We have enough trouble knowing it if we see it on a personal, relationship basis. How could our media give even a moment's attention to such inanity? The poor man is intellectually bankrupt. In a political gathering, preaching to the choir, he still couldn't come up with a clean, honest criticism of policy? It's not even worth Mr. Blow's attention in this equally shallow opinion piece. He has done plenty of worthy work, but this is not up to his usual level.
4
The comments from the right remind me of the schoolchild who complains "you don't love me" when criticised for a poor report card. Grown ups care enough about the ones they love to work with them through the hard times.
34
We all love America and we were all affected by 9/11, Rudy, you hold no claim on that. What you do seem to excel in, however, is fear-mongering and rabble-rousing. Pray tell, Mr. Supreme Patriot, how does insulting the president of our country and questioning his patriotism help our country, champion freedom or set us apart from those who wish to destroy us?
68
Rudy Giuliani should have engaged his brain before speaking about the President in that manner. Doesn't the former realise that Obama is trying to clean up the mess Bush created by Dubya's reckless war in Iraq and its ongoing aftermath?
39
If the right leaning Republicans loved this country the way they claim, they would not have caused the major economic collapse in 2007, would not have engaged in Iraq war spending billions of dollars that could have been used to improve our infrastructure and sacrificing lives of thousands of young soldiers. They would not try to repeal Affordable Health Care, higher living minimum wage, and stand in the way of affording education for all by making community colleges free for those who qualify.
9
And would not continue to press for further proxy wars on behalf of a client state.
Republicans caused the housing crisis? Wow. News to. E. Thanks!
I guess Mr. Blow doesn't know or care about President Obama calling President Bush unpatriotic on the 2008 campaign trail. Like the rest of our silly partisan media, bad behavior is only newsworthy when a Republicans is guilty, even a Republican who hasn't held office for ten years and never will again.
Spare us all of the adjectives, Mr. Blow. If comments are "vile" and "horrible", when they are said by Republicans, they are the same if they are said about Republicans. For all of Mr. Blow's incessant whining about inappropriate rhetoric, he has never once criticized a Democrat for their nasty invective against Republicans. As a result, it quite obvious that Mr. Bloiw's ceaseless complaint have not to do with being "ethical" as he says. His complaints are rooted in the lowest form of hypocritical partisanship. Talk about "tedious".
Spare us all of the adjectives, Mr. Blow. If comments are "vile" and "horrible", when they are said by Republicans, they are the same if they are said about Republicans. For all of Mr. Blow's incessant whining about inappropriate rhetoric, he has never once criticized a Democrat for their nasty invective against Republicans. As a result, it quite obvious that Mr. Bloiw's ceaseless complaint have not to do with being "ethical" as he says. His complaints are rooted in the lowest form of hypocritical partisanship. Talk about "tedious".
7
You included no quotes or links in your tiresome rant, so I assume you're lying about Obama questioning W's patriotism. Conservatives tend to be liars these days.
When you subscribe to a debunked economic policy, an outmoded social policy, and discredited foreign policy, you play the only card you've got or get out of the game. Lying about a man's patriotism is easy when you've got nothing else.
When you subscribe to a debunked economic policy, an outmoded social policy, and discredited foreign policy, you play the only card you've got or get out of the game. Lying about a man's patriotism is easy when you've got nothing else.
16
Do you have an exact quote? How can you make make comparisons if we don't know what it is Obama allegedly said?
6
Jay & Jtati, for your convenience I'm including a short set of instructions that'll hopefully aid you in your quest for citation/attribution:
1) open browser
2) navigate to website of favorite search engine
3) in search box type "president Obama criticize bush 2008 deficit"
4) review search results
5) click link of desired result
6) repeat 3 - 5 until satisfied
There you go. Free of charge.
1) open browser
2) navigate to website of favorite search engine
3) in search box type "president Obama criticize bush 2008 deficit"
4) review search results
5) click link of desired result
6) repeat 3 - 5 until satisfied
There you go. Free of charge.
2
It doesn't help when Michelle Obama says, "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country..." (referring to her husband's running for President.)
6
Oh, for pity's sake. She didn't say she was proud of her country for the first time, she said as you note, she was "really proud." That means she was always proud, but her pride increased even more when she saw people accepting the idea of a viable black candidate for President. And for someone old enough to remember at least the later parts of the Civil Rights movement, not to mention whose parents knew segregation as a part of their daily lives, this was a true expression of the pride she felt in the maturation of her country regarding race. Given how the opposition (including Rudy Giuliani) has behaved in the last six years with racist dog whistles galore, sadly, it appears her pride was premature.
39
It does help. It helps when someone who is like us (not someone born into a privilege) speaks to what we are feeling. That the "Presidential Class" never cared about us except as a part of the machine that produces their privilege. We know the Bush's don't care about us. But we feel like Michelle does. That was a first for millions of Americans. We were so proud then of someone from outside the machine at the controls. But don't worry, the "conservatives" destroyed most of that by stoping the country from functioning at all. We're still proud of Michelle and Barak. But now we are ashamed of our entire system of "if I can't have it I'll break it".
12
I'm sorry, but if you think that older black people in this country had a reason to be "really proud" of America before the election of Barack Obama then you're just denying your own history.
4
Rudy Jiuliani and his 1/10th of 1% handlers love America just the way it is. They would love it even more if it functioned like it did 100 years ago.
To them progress, social progress especially, is unpatriotic except when related to profits.
To them progress, social progress especially, is unpatriotic except when related to profits.
21
William, and who exactly would you consider the President's "handlers"? Here's a hint: see Giuliani's
Charles Blow points out the underlying theme that the far right is pushing - and wants to make the key message for 2016. Guiliani's idiotic remarks are just one example.
We have turned into a nation that primarily votes based on wedge issues - God, guns, gays, abortion, ACA, taxes, social security - leaving the parties with the difficulty of coming up with a theme to reunite the fragmented voters who are listening because of their pet issue.
The Republicans are launching trial balloons. The concepts that the far right wants to incorporate are that America is Exceptional and internationalism is bad; that we who love the country must look to the good, like our great history and capitalism, to be happy and strong like we were under Reagan; that we are a Christian nation founded on Christian belief.
Giuliani hits those points. So does the Oklahoma state representative who has introduced a bill to rewrite Oklahoma's AP US History Guidelines; as well as the efforts in Texas and tin Colorado.You see in in the remarks from people like Jindal - who tweeted that Guiliani got the gist right. We will see these ideas again and again.
AND - if the President doesn't love his country enough .. if he is an internationalist who undermines the Greatness That Is America.. then surely his former Secretary of State who administered his policy is Suspect Too.
We have turned into a nation that primarily votes based on wedge issues - God, guns, gays, abortion, ACA, taxes, social security - leaving the parties with the difficulty of coming up with a theme to reunite the fragmented voters who are listening because of their pet issue.
The Republicans are launching trial balloons. The concepts that the far right wants to incorporate are that America is Exceptional and internationalism is bad; that we who love the country must look to the good, like our great history and capitalism, to be happy and strong like we were under Reagan; that we are a Christian nation founded on Christian belief.
Giuliani hits those points. So does the Oklahoma state representative who has introduced a bill to rewrite Oklahoma's AP US History Guidelines; as well as the efforts in Texas and tin Colorado.You see in in the remarks from people like Jindal - who tweeted that Guiliani got the gist right. We will see these ideas again and again.
AND - if the President doesn't love his country enough .. if he is an internationalist who undermines the Greatness That Is America.. then surely his former Secretary of State who administered his policy is Suspect Too.
9
It's not about the depth and breadth of what you preach. It's what you emphasize. This is where I think critics of the President are on the mark because he, more than any president in history, has played up what is wrong with America and played down what is right. When on day one you announce that you're going to FUNDIMENTALLY CHANGE the country the message is pretty clear. A country is like a person, pound her about her deficiencies and you will destroy her self image. When you've done that you all but destroy her ability to change and leave her open to all sorts of exploitation.
43
Please cite the speech where Obama stated he was going to FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE the country. Oh, and while you're at it, please point to any policy or polices of his that have actually done so. For better or worse, Obama is an incrementalist in most if not all of his policies.
Your perception of both Obama's rhetoric and his reality are askew.
Your perception of both Obama's rhetoric and his reality are askew.
37
If you cannot take constructive criticism and need to be constantly told how wonderful you are, then your self-image is already damaged and you are nothing more than a spoiled child.
29
Replying to both Oldschoolsaint and Eddie:
You both epitomize all that is wrong with today's rightwing: you are both wrong on facts, wrong on reasoning, and wrong on reality.
You can not solve or fix a problem until you first recognize the problem actually exists. One has to begin by recognizing the vast gulf between our high minded ideals and the reality of what we do and have done. On one hand we talk of freedom and yet we are a nation born of exploitation, slavery, bigotry, oppression, and even genocide. Bigotry and hate run deep against woman, workers, and minorities of every kind and they are still with us today.
Much of what you would glorify about our nation is actually myth and misperception. The progress we have made - whether in civil rights, human rights, workers, woman, and individual rights of every sort did not come from singing mindless praise but from hard fought battles.
The idea that criticizing your nation - that ignorant rightwing battle cry of "love it or leave it" that you espouse - is nothing more then a wicked tool of the oppressors. There is no greater love of a country then to want to make it better for all; to want to make its reality match its ideals and rhetoric; to be willing to stand up against the bigotry and hate of others that has come to dominate the party of Lincoln.
To say that Obama has not sung the praise of America is also simply a flat out lie.
You both epitomize all that is wrong with today's rightwing: you are both wrong on facts, wrong on reasoning, and wrong on reality.
You can not solve or fix a problem until you first recognize the problem actually exists. One has to begin by recognizing the vast gulf between our high minded ideals and the reality of what we do and have done. On one hand we talk of freedom and yet we are a nation born of exploitation, slavery, bigotry, oppression, and even genocide. Bigotry and hate run deep against woman, workers, and minorities of every kind and they are still with us today.
Much of what you would glorify about our nation is actually myth and misperception. The progress we have made - whether in civil rights, human rights, workers, woman, and individual rights of every sort did not come from singing mindless praise but from hard fought battles.
The idea that criticizing your nation - that ignorant rightwing battle cry of "love it or leave it" that you espouse - is nothing more then a wicked tool of the oppressors. There is no greater love of a country then to want to make it better for all; to want to make its reality match its ideals and rhetoric; to be willing to stand up against the bigotry and hate of others that has come to dominate the party of Lincoln.
To say that Obama has not sung the praise of America is also simply a flat out lie.
19
It's a distraction to discuss insults about who loves their country.
What's lowering the status of America compared to other nations is its corrupt money buying our 3 branches of govt. That's not hyperbole. That is a worse threat to our country than the absurd insults of wacko right wingers.
When is Charles Blow going to take a crack at our unique campaign finance system, that underlies so many of the problems he writes about? It prevents their solutions from being aired, from candidates proposing them, from congress passing laws to alleviate them.
The US is backward vs other advanced countries in may ways: We have second best in our health care system, our living standards, poverty levels, infrastructure. We imprison the most. Our colleges grads are in huge debt. All widely documented.
It stems from the Really Big Difference--that we finance elections with unlimited donations from the wealthy, shutting out representation for the average person--in the world's 'greatest', yet most hypocritical democracy. Where even the dominant party and the court make no bones about not protecting the right to vote in devious ways.
Mr. Blow, can you find some poll numbers on what the citizens of other democracies think of our election costs--the highest in the world? Where billionaires vet and choose who the candidates will be for us to vote for? Would they like to change over from their public funding systems, in order to --as our Court would say--guarantee 'free speech'?
What's lowering the status of America compared to other nations is its corrupt money buying our 3 branches of govt. That's not hyperbole. That is a worse threat to our country than the absurd insults of wacko right wingers.
When is Charles Blow going to take a crack at our unique campaign finance system, that underlies so many of the problems he writes about? It prevents their solutions from being aired, from candidates proposing them, from congress passing laws to alleviate them.
The US is backward vs other advanced countries in may ways: We have second best in our health care system, our living standards, poverty levels, infrastructure. We imprison the most. Our colleges grads are in huge debt. All widely documented.
It stems from the Really Big Difference--that we finance elections with unlimited donations from the wealthy, shutting out representation for the average person--in the world's 'greatest', yet most hypocritical democracy. Where even the dominant party and the court make no bones about not protecting the right to vote in devious ways.
Mr. Blow, can you find some poll numbers on what the citizens of other democracies think of our election costs--the highest in the world? Where billionaires vet and choose who the candidates will be for us to vote for? Would they like to change over from their public funding systems, in order to --as our Court would say--guarantee 'free speech'?
12
So if my son didn't do as well on an exam as he could have, or was doing something that was wrong; if I were to remind him to buckle down and live up to his potential, then that means I don't love him?
You can love your country and still admit it is not perfect. I'm sure that Rudy must think that the Jim Crow laws, or the Dred Scott decision were just fine, because obviously in his world if you were to point out the flaws in those cases, you hate America.
Another prominent conservative pundit just got in a twist because the federal government had made the Honolulu Internment Camp where Japanese Americans were held a national monument.
We learn from the past, good or bad it is a part of who we are. Conservatives in general seem to have this weird sense of ignoring anything that does not fit their liking.
You can love your country and still admit it is not perfect. I'm sure that Rudy must think that the Jim Crow laws, or the Dred Scott decision were just fine, because obviously in his world if you were to point out the flaws in those cases, you hate America.
Another prominent conservative pundit just got in a twist because the federal government had made the Honolulu Internment Camp where Japanese Americans were held a national monument.
We learn from the past, good or bad it is a part of who we are. Conservatives in general seem to have this weird sense of ignoring anything that does not fit their liking.
30
Does Giuliani love the America that twice made Obama its president? He says he does but I doubt it.
38
Mr. Blow frames his column without completing the question, that is, "Is America (its system of government, its system of liberty, its system of economy) exceptional COMPARED to other countries?" The answer unequivocally is YES. How do I know this? The number of people it has lifted out of poverty; the number of people around the world who want to come here (compared to other country destinations); the manner is which people are allowed to practice their religion, or non-religion, the freedom of the press, etc. This country evolved to be better today than what it was 200 years ago, but the fundamental principles were laid down in the 18th Century. And it sure is exceptional compared to anything else out there (perhaps with the exceptions of New Zealand and Australia and Canada). And we shouldn't be embarrassed to say so.
66
Exceptional except for our non existent health care system. Every other country is more exceptional than we are in that regard.
11
The country did not "evolve" to be better; people fought, bled and died to make the country a better place.
Do you think slavery ended, women got the right to vote, minorities obtained civil rights, workers got a weekend, etc., through evolution?
Do you think slavery ended, women got the right to vote, minorities obtained civil rights, workers got a weekend, etc., through evolution?
21
And our country has done more than any other country in history to protect the rest of the world from the evils of totalitarianism, poverty, and inequality. We are a force for good and the world needs us.
1
Who made Rudy the arbiter of who does and doesn't love this country? And why are people debating his code words for bigotry on face value?
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Samuel Johnson.
"This land was made for you and me." Woody Guthrie
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Samuel Johnson.
"This land was made for you and me." Woody Guthrie
21
The fact that James Baldwin can criticize our country is what make America exceptional. The fact that we give space on the editorial page to the attention seeking ranting of someone like Rudy Giuliani is an indication that our level of discourse is eroding… We need to pay less attention to the shrill allegations of publicity seeking ex-politicians and more to thought leaders like James Baldwin.
13
I always like to think I'm exceptional: educated, thoughtful, aware, intelligent, feeling, dynamic, constantly evolving. Then I think of all the appalling mistakes I've made in life, whether ignorant, thoughtless, obtuse, stupid, callous, laggard, hidebound. Yet I still manage to love myself because I still strive to be the exceptional me. That's why I love the U.S., with all its failings past and present, for as long as we strive to live up to the ideals of our founders, we are exceptional. As soon as we, in this case Giuliani and his audience, delude ourselves into thinking we've achieved the ideal, and condemn and demonize anyone who disagrees, we don't love America, we hate it. And we are lost.
12
It's interesting that conservative republicans are using the same phrase - "American exceptionalism" - to criticize proposed guidelines for teaching AP American history in high schools.
10
This sounds rather like a discussion about how many clowns can fit on the head of a pin. What on earth is "The idea of America"? Whatever it is, it's surely not unique in the world. And American exceptionalism, that sounds to me like straightforward arrogance, surely an ugly state of mind that repels others. Or is Giuliani reigniting that old contest, favored by political blowhards for who can profess the higher level of 'patriotism'. Another futile argument or as Samuel Johnson put it "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel". Now that's a fitting description of Rudolph Giuliani.
20
Before condemning President Obama, Rudy Giuliani should reminisce at the legacy of George W Bush and the chaos he created.
37
This is exactly the same nonsense we heard while protesting the Vietnam war. Remember "Love it or Leave It"?
I have no idea what "love" for a country is; I reserve that emotion for people and pets.
But I do know there are a lot of things that can be done to make this country better and if you can't talk about that and/or criticize what's wrong, then this isn't a country I'd want to love anyway.
I have no idea what "love" for a country is; I reserve that emotion for people and pets.
But I do know there are a lot of things that can be done to make this country better and if you can't talk about that and/or criticize what's wrong, then this isn't a country I'd want to love anyway.
26
I think I can answer part of your question: yes, protesting against an action by your country that you find morally repugnant is love of country and honorable. However, if that protest wanders into carrying the enemy flag, chanting that the "enemy is going to win", and visiting the enemy capital during the war to advance their objectives against us, it is no longer love, it's treason.
2
All issues worth talking about, I suppose. I don't see how this applies to Obama, since he's done none of those things.
5
"I have no idea what "love" for a country is; I reserve that emotion for people and pets."
Then, I take it, you agree that love of country, or patriotism, is strictly a right-wing thing.
Some years ago on the Fourth of July, a store selling cheap refreshments offered a price break to anyone who would sing a bar of a patriotuc song. I sang "This Land Is Your Land," by Woody Guthrie, and got my cut-rate drink.
You think love of country is right-wing nonsense? Look up the lyrics of "This Land Is Your Land," or of "The House I Live In" by Lewis Allan (Abel Meeropol, who also wrote "Strange Fruit"), or "Power and Glory" by Phil Ochs. And check out the patriotic cantata "Ballad for Americans."
Then, I take it, you agree that love of country, or patriotism, is strictly a right-wing thing.
Some years ago on the Fourth of July, a store selling cheap refreshments offered a price break to anyone who would sing a bar of a patriotuc song. I sang "This Land Is Your Land," by Woody Guthrie, and got my cut-rate drink.
You think love of country is right-wing nonsense? Look up the lyrics of "This Land Is Your Land," or of "The House I Live In" by Lewis Allan (Abel Meeropol, who also wrote "Strange Fruit"), or "Power and Glory" by Phil Ochs. And check out the patriotic cantata "Ballad for Americans."
So, in the mind of liberalism it is our duty to question authority and even our right to criticize the president as long as his last name is Regan or Bush. But once again we see the absolute hypocrisy that is liberalism, when a liberal socialist, yes maybe even full blown communist is in the White House, he is somehow above being criticized, or even questioned as to his motives, his policies, or his love for America.
Voltaire once said, " To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize".
Voltaire once said, " To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize".
5
In 2003 The Dixie Chicks were roundly condemned by the Right after saying that they were ashamed that George Bush was from their state of Texas. This was said in protest for the plans of that administration to invade Iraq. Their music was removed from the playlists of many music radio stations and their concerts were cancelled as a result.
Did you raise your voice in protest and quote Voltaire to defend their right to criticize the President? The silence from your political compatriots back then was deafening.
Did you raise your voice in protest and quote Voltaire to defend their right to criticize the President? The silence from your political compatriots back then was deafening.
14
Let's see, under Obama, the Dow has almost trebled, car companies were bailed out, the banks were bailed out, there were no prosecutions for the economic meltdown, the vast majority of gains from the recovery were to the 1%, and health insurance companies have been and will continue to be enriched by the ACA.
If Obama's a communist or a socialist, he's really terrible at it.
If Obama's a communist or a socialist, he's really terrible at it.
21
You realize, of course, that your reckless and unsubstantiated charges - socialist, communist - have no bearing in reality: Obama is a moderate Democrat and an incrementalist. You realize, I trust, that no one in my lifetime has been suggested to more personal abuse as President of the rankest kind than Obama. ("You lie!" at SotU speech, birthed movement, Giuliani questioning the very Americanism of the President...)
No, I guess you are blind to it. As are so many commenters here who cast aspersions without a SINGLE fact to support their Faux News talking points.
No, I guess you are blind to it. As are so many commenters here who cast aspersions without a SINGLE fact to support their Faux News talking points.
20
Sorry Charles and readrs but Mayor Guliani , while harsh, was exactly correct.
5
Maybe that's the view from LA. For those of us who are native New Yorkers and lived under the Giuliani administration, the the foolish and self-aggrandizing former may simply provided yet another look at what a smug, self-serving and mean spirited creature he can be.
I suppose there are those who find such things appealing. I cannot imagine why.
I suppose there are those who find such things appealing. I cannot imagine why.
36
Actually, politicians who have the Chutzpah to speak the truth no matter what the backlash (which include death threats) are rarities and should be admired.
2
Quite true. Do let us know when Mr. Giuliani utters a word of truth. Unfortunately, truth and Giuliani are two words seldom found in the same sentence.
11
Giuliani revealed himself for me when, during a campaign speech, he took a cell-phone call from his wife and then talked loud enough for everyone in the audience to hear what a gallant husband he was. Nothing wicked about that; just histrionic bad taste. That was who he is, and the more we learn about him, the more he opens his mouth, the more convinced I am that he's a zombie. Even his willingness to enter Ground Zero without a mask was phony and horribly inconsiderate of the workers who had to enter often. They were the ones contracting lung disease because the mayor established a macho precedent of entering without a mask. (But not very often.)
8
My people came to this country in 1638. But they came as free men and women, not in slave ships or as indentured servants bound to serve for 7 years before they were allowed to be free of that bond.
So as a result, I come from a line of people whose lives were probably very hard, but what they built on and became part of was their own.
America has a black side to it that has and will continue to haunt us forever. That we actually went to war over the right to maintain ownership of other human beings will never become a minor issue in this country.
That is exceptional when one considers that England had freed its slaves many years earlier and without a war.
We have done so many wonderful things through the years, and so many brilliant people of all backgrounds, colors, faiths, personal behaviors have made great discoveries and inventions that have made America - and the world - better for it. We helped Europe fight enemies in two WWs we had our own enemy in the Japanese. All that has been forgiven, set right, and we have moved on.
America is exceptional ONLY in the way it was created as a government and a country. It is exceptional ONLY in the fact that every single person on its land, except for the First People, are immigrants. We are exceptional ONLY in that we have managed to, outside of the Civil War, cooperate and work together to maintain our form of government by votes not wars.
I cannot see where we are more exceptional other than that.
So as a result, I come from a line of people whose lives were probably very hard, but what they built on and became part of was their own.
America has a black side to it that has and will continue to haunt us forever. That we actually went to war over the right to maintain ownership of other human beings will never become a minor issue in this country.
That is exceptional when one considers that England had freed its slaves many years earlier and without a war.
We have done so many wonderful things through the years, and so many brilliant people of all backgrounds, colors, faiths, personal behaviors have made great discoveries and inventions that have made America - and the world - better for it. We helped Europe fight enemies in two WWs we had our own enemy in the Japanese. All that has been forgiven, set right, and we have moved on.
America is exceptional ONLY in the way it was created as a government and a country. It is exceptional ONLY in the fact that every single person on its land, except for the First People, are immigrants. We are exceptional ONLY in that we have managed to, outside of the Civil War, cooperate and work together to maintain our form of government by votes not wars.
I cannot see where we are more exceptional other than that.
11
American health care is the most expensive in the world, but we rank #38 on "performance" according to a World Health Organization study. "Exceptionalism," indeed. Exceptionally expensive, wasteful and inefficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health...
21
Rudy is right. One does not make every effort daily to change something they love. One tries to preserve what they love. Obama has demonstrated on daily basis that the only thing he "loves" about the United States is the tax dollars available to spend to secure votes from the uneducated voter.
7
Quite. That line of thinking would have to culminate in the conclusion that both the Fourteenth Amendment and the Emancipation Proclamation were acts of hatred, calculated to advance the cause of the undeserving.
25
Rubbish. If your loved ones do wrong, do you pat them on the back? No, you encourage them to change their ways.
"Change is inevitable. Growth is Optional."
"Change is inevitable. Growth is Optional."
22
Why is it that when tax breaks and subsidies are used to garner the votes and campaign finance dollars of the 1%, that's "democracy," but when someone in goverment throws a few crumbs to poor children, that's buying votes?
As far as the "uneducated" voting for Obama, the Republican base is the one that refuses to acknowledge the realities of evolution and climate change. And insofar as racism is considered ignorant, they've got that covered on the basis of race, sex, and sexual orientation, too.
As far as the "uneducated" voting for Obama, the Republican base is the one that refuses to acknowledge the realities of evolution and climate change. And insofar as racism is considered ignorant, they've got that covered on the basis of race, sex, and sexual orientation, too.
18
People who don't understand nuance only see the world as good or bad. For the vast majority of the right wing, there is no middle ground or room for doubt. Theirs is a child-like faith, like a fundamentalist religion. I believe that If there is a God, then he or she is tough enough and forgiving enough to handle doubters, just as the United States in all its messy glory is strong enough to be questioned and critiqued.
21
That's the word that keeps popping into my head as I read about this mindless jingoism: childish. It's the simplistic thought process of an 8-year-old who will punch you in the nose if you say a word against his favorite baseball team.
It is NOT the thought process of a thoughtful and engaged citizenry. Either Giuliani is thoughtless and stupid, or he is completely disingenuous and thinks his audience is.
It is NOT the thought process of a thoughtful and engaged citizenry. Either Giuliani is thoughtless and stupid, or he is completely disingenuous and thinks his audience is.
13
The fact that he is called "America's mayor" says a lot about us. His record while he was the NY mayor was spotty at best and sometime it was worse. This is also the path of conservatives since Nixon and then with Reagan. This is the culmination of their divide and conquer strategy between black and white, and to demonize so called liberals.
The right has become more radicalized and more intolerant over the last 30 to 35 years. Conservatives also embrace a double standard as they forgive those on the right for misdeeds and condemn and punish those on the left for the same things. The question is how long will the country put up with the hatred, bigotry and misogyny of the right?
The right has become more radicalized and more intolerant over the last 30 to 35 years. Conservatives also embrace a double standard as they forgive those on the right for misdeeds and condemn and punish those on the left for the same things. The question is how long will the country put up with the hatred, bigotry and misogyny of the right?
21
Rudi is merely taking a page from the Book of Mitt, leveraging the prejudices of wealthy donors by impugning the other half of America for fundraising purposes. This kind of divisive slander says everything about what Rudi and Mitt assumed their audience came to hear.
And the occasional glimpse of the private blathering at these gatherings says everything about the contempt of the participants for America, other than perhaps a great place to get rich.
And the occasional glimpse of the private blathering at these gatherings says everything about the contempt of the participants for America, other than perhaps a great place to get rich.
27
James Baldwin was right in his duty to criticize America and all of us have a similar obligation to do the same when our actions do not live up to our ideals. That does not mean that our criticisms are always accurate. It means we have critical thinking and honest discussions about what troubles us and a willingness to act when necessary.
Is America exceptional among the world's countries and systems of governance?
In our history, among other things, "we the people" displaced monarchies with elected government, emancipated the enslaved, institutionalized the most effective economic means to raise living standards for the most people, created universal public education for all our children, defeated the most brutal dictatorships the world has known, put men on the moon and advanced technologies to the betterment of all of us.
We the people also continued slavery beyond the times when most civilized people abolished it, committed de facto genocide against the native Americans, tolerated vigilantism for domestic political purposes, incarcerated (non European) citizens because they were descendants of an enemy people, tolerated Jim Crow, practiced military adventurism to project political power, and other things.
Are we exceptional?
Only if we have the courage to confront both opportunity as well as grievous wrong when it looms before us. The likes of Rudy Giuliani and Scott Walker are at best political hack footnotes to the American story. Barack Obama is a chapter.
Is America exceptional among the world's countries and systems of governance?
In our history, among other things, "we the people" displaced monarchies with elected government, emancipated the enslaved, institutionalized the most effective economic means to raise living standards for the most people, created universal public education for all our children, defeated the most brutal dictatorships the world has known, put men on the moon and advanced technologies to the betterment of all of us.
We the people also continued slavery beyond the times when most civilized people abolished it, committed de facto genocide against the native Americans, tolerated vigilantism for domestic political purposes, incarcerated (non European) citizens because they were descendants of an enemy people, tolerated Jim Crow, practiced military adventurism to project political power, and other things.
Are we exceptional?
Only if we have the courage to confront both opportunity as well as grievous wrong when it looms before us. The likes of Rudy Giuliani and Scott Walker are at best political hack footnotes to the American story. Barack Obama is a chapter.
38
Man: "Darling, I love you more than life itself. Let's get married".
Woman: "Dear, I love you too...let's elope".
Man: "Yes, let's elope. There is just one thing: I need to fundamentally change you as soon as we are married".
Woman: "Dear, I love you too...let's elope".
Man: "Yes, let's elope. There is just one thing: I need to fundamentally change you as soon as we are married".
7
There in a nutshell is what ails the POTUS. I couldn't have said it any better myself.
2
In the Greek language, there is no single word for the concept of "love"; there are instead words that define different forms of love. Mr. Blow was attempting to explain that idea, but I guess you missed it. Since you obviously equate patriotism with romance, let me ask this: do you honestly believe a spouse will be the identical person at 65 that they were at 25? If you do, you're in for a big shock.
18
Steve: Since you are such a genius, tell us how Obama loves America. He luxuriates in America. But give us an example of his love of America. It is not possible to love America but seek to destroy America by " fundamentally changing" her.
2
"Love" is a peculiar thing for an intelligent person to feel toward an abstraction. I think Giuliani knows this, and part of his goal in attacking President Obama was to force him into a situation where his intelligence could work against him politically.
http://cultureworld21c.blogspot.com/2015/02/america-love-it-or-feel-comp...
http://cultureworld21c.blogspot.com/2015/02/america-love-it-or-feel-comp...
2
I love the concept of freedom. I used to think I was lucky to have been born in this country. I was very proud when we elected our current president, twice. I still wish I could move to a country where I could be proud again. New Zealand sounds real good.
19
Raymond Carver nailed it: "WHAT WE TALK ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT LOVE"
He loves America he just wants to fundamentally change it. He loves Americans just not those who disagree with him and especially not those ignorant rubes in the south.
9
You know, the right wing carries on as though Mr. Obama has been working to overthrow the government through force and violence. Actually, he was elected--twice. It's legal in America to have a differing idea of how to run the country; it's why we have elections. Just because he won doesn't mean he hates everyone who disagrees with him about how to run the country. He was ellected to the Presidency--twice--time to get over it, grow up, and join the real conversation.
121
"It's legal in America to have a differing idea of how to run the country."
It's also legal to criticize its Commander-In-Chief so what's your point?
It's also legal to criticize its Commander-In-Chief so what's your point?
One man's opinion of another man's feelings captures the nation's news cycle for weeks. That is truly "exceptional."
10
Mr. blow: why don't you simply list those occasions and taste men's where the President does express his love and admiration for all that American has meant to the world.
President Obama and his camp followers believe everything in the United States is broken and needs their special brand of super-glue fix. While not perfect, proper use of the checks and balances of our system and true bipartisan approach to problem solving would advance this country's interest for all Americans. But, the effete condescending approach to governing but a semi-imperial ruler evidences his disregard for American values in governing.
While the trendy speaking point is Republicans as the party of "no"; in fact it is the President whose class-warfare rhetoric and his party cronies in the Senate who have gummed up the works for years. A fair press would have outed Sentator Reid's virtual shut down of normal operation of the Senate years ago--and the written and electronic media, more concerned, it seems with a White House Christmas party invitation that the truth in reporting could have assisted in furthering meaningful debate through such disclosures rather than aid and abet such activity.
President Obama and his camp followers believe everything in the United States is broken and needs their special brand of super-glue fix. While not perfect, proper use of the checks and balances of our system and true bipartisan approach to problem solving would advance this country's interest for all Americans. But, the effete condescending approach to governing but a semi-imperial ruler evidences his disregard for American values in governing.
While the trendy speaking point is Republicans as the party of "no"; in fact it is the President whose class-warfare rhetoric and his party cronies in the Senate who have gummed up the works for years. A fair press would have outed Sentator Reid's virtual shut down of normal operation of the Senate years ago--and the written and electronic media, more concerned, it seems with a White House Christmas party invitation that the truth in reporting could have assisted in furthering meaningful debate through such disclosures rather than aid and abet such activity.
5
"...it is the President whose class-warfare rhetoric and his party cronies in the Senate who have gummed up the works for years."
What planet have you been living on? And maybe you didn't see the entire list of Obama's public statements of love for America and her exceptional character, published in the NYT yesterday.
What planet have you been living on? And maybe you didn't see the entire list of Obama's public statements of love for America and her exceptional character, published in the NYT yesterday.
42
It's not the President who has claimed that some people shouldn't be allowed to marry or serve in the military or that some people don't deserve an education or a living wage. Republicans are the party that want to divide people into groups and designate many of those groups as second class citizens.
Democrats are the party that want to preserve our landscape, fix our infrastructure and keep the safety nets in place. It really helps to pay attention, especially if you drive on roads, breathe air, drink water and need health care.
Democrats are the party that want to preserve our landscape, fix our infrastructure and keep the safety nets in place. It really helps to pay attention, especially if you drive on roads, breathe air, drink water and need health care.
11
Is America exceptional? Well it's gun laws and rate of gun deaths certainly is. It's incarceration rate is off the scales. It's system of campaign finance is certainly unlike anywhere else. It's health care costs as a percentage of GDP are unmatched. it's policy of continuous an endless war is unique in our times. The income and wealth gap is also greater than any other developed country. Yes, I guess America truly is exceptional. Congratulations.
701
We're also exceptional among western countries with our collective embrace of religion. It seems to me that this is not a good thing.
1
Tom....great sum up of how we are different. This is what our columnists might write about to offer context, contrast, and some positive examples to inspire US voters. But we're cut off by 2 big oceans, and an impenetrable Canadian border. I just commented how Canadians didn't have an 08 crash, since they didn't deregulate their banks. Not much coverage here of that interesting contrast to our wild west banking.
Our unique campaign Financing underlies all these issues. Not much discussed on the op ed page.
Our unique campaign Financing underlies all these issues. Not much discussed on the op ed page.
1
I take exception to Mayor Juliani's comments and question his own actions as 'America's Mayor' post-September 11,2001! His administration's mistakes of keeping the security headquarters in WTC, after the earlier attempted bombing in the 90's is boneheaded at best! Still he made millions as a Security Expert, throughout the next decade! A true patriot would not have used the tragedy to enrich himself.
19
Not to mention the way he ignored people's first amendment rights when the GOP rolled into NYC for the convention, with his free speech zones and mass arrests and all that. Since when did free speech have boundaries?
14
Exceptionalism or Xenophobia? That is the comparison that Americans need to reconcile when it comes to the recent right-wing push to "think correctly" about the United States. This is reflected by xenophobic reactions to such curricula as the AP US History course whose syllabus requires students to actively synthesize BOTH the "good" and the "bad" in American history. As an educator, I see a push to revise American history and thus the way citizens think about their country "back to the good ol' days" when certain groups "knew their place" and did not question the "inherent genetic superiority" of the ruling class. Through this methodology the flag waving crowds will not dare to question the constant state of war that we are in, the growing economic inequality, and the relegation of select populations to second class citizenship much like Wilson's belief that "hyphenated Americans" could never really become truly American.
16
The conservative Republican public view of America and our history is myth that has become so enshrined that even the people who should know better have come to see it as fact. I believe the reason we haven't been able to move on from slavery and Jim Crow is because so many just cannot acknowledge the horrible thing itself, and that good people could do such awful things. The same goes for the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans. Both the slavery and the genocide were justified and glorified by the mythic Christian god.
Germany has faced up to and acknowledged its sins. That nation moves on.
We are being held back, mired in our own mess, because so many cannot let go of the myth. Our childhood is over, it's time to be grownups. Thank you, Mr. Obama, for trying to move us in that direction
Germany has faced up to and acknowledged its sins. That nation moves on.
We are being held back, mired in our own mess, because so many cannot let go of the myth. Our childhood is over, it's time to be grownups. Thank you, Mr. Obama, for trying to move us in that direction
90
Rudy, Rudy, Rudy.
I think our boy has gone off the deep end, where he's been tottering for years.
Where was the most dangerous place in NYC on 9/12/01?
Thee space between Rudy and a TV camera.
I think our boy has gone off the deep end, where he's been tottering for years.
Where was the most dangerous place in NYC on 9/12/01?
Thee space between Rudy and a TV camera.
84
Eric Erickson tweeted:
"I don't think Obama is a Christian. He certainly is not one in a meaningful way."
Oh, really; and just how would he know?
"I don't think Obama is a Christian. He certainly is not one in a meaningful way."
Oh, really; and just how would he know?
65
I'm pretty sure Obama is a Christian. But then again, what does it matter?
Article VI of the US Constitution: " ... no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
Article VI of the US Constitution: " ... no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
9
Thank you; PRECISELY.
And all those who wish to live in a "Christian nation" should move to one (with all deliberate speed...).
And all those who wish to live in a "Christian nation" should move to one (with all deliberate speed...).
7
Charles,you are fighting culture as well as ideology.Our increasingly infantile culture means that any criticism is taken personally as negative and inappropriately judgmental.It is easy to see how that trait translates to criticism of the country.Ideologically,what Republicans really mean when they talk about American Exceptionalism is preservation of the old order.It is code for a nostalgic view of a time when we were without doubt "exceptional".As you say,these days may be long gone,both in absolute and relative terms. But telling the Middle Class that they are not,and that shrinking government and curtailing immigration will make that apparent,still resonates with too many of our fellow Americans.
11
"American Exceptionalism" is an ironic phrase, although most people who use it are too ignorant or craven to appreciate that.
The phrase means that America is a great country that is often paralyzed or limited by its infantile inability to see itself clearly, impairing its ability to improve (strength and character permitting improvement being the most significant elements of greatness). This inability arises from various well-known causes: sophomoric boosterism, poor education or powers of analysis, a fondness for self-delusion, or a despotic interest in misleading and controlling those who are ignorant and easily led.
The phrase is ironic given how much more exceptional the U.S. could be if it did not suffer from the dementia of "American Exceptionalism."
The phrase means that America is a great country that is often paralyzed or limited by its infantile inability to see itself clearly, impairing its ability to improve (strength and character permitting improvement being the most significant elements of greatness). This inability arises from various well-known causes: sophomoric boosterism, poor education or powers of analysis, a fondness for self-delusion, or a despotic interest in misleading and controlling those who are ignorant and easily led.
The phrase is ironic given how much more exceptional the U.S. could be if it did not suffer from the dementia of "American Exceptionalism."
4
Exceptionalism as applied to America, the country of my birth, cuts two ways. The concept has been understood to mean exceptional as in best, better than any other country in the world. But it is also used increasingly, notably in Times comments, to mean exceptionally unable to deal with a vast array of problems and unwilling to learn from any other country.
I provide an example from yesterday's Kristof column. I presented in simple English in 3 comments the proposal by Professor Kenneth Prewitt, former US Census Bureau Director to eliminate race/ethnicity questions from the 2020 Census.
A reader replied that "Your (my, LL) prescription may be valid from your European perspective…but may not be very successful here.”
The prescription came not from me but from the leading expert on the truly exceptional USCB system for classifying Americans, and I once again urge Charles Blow to tackle this subject.
I believe that Kenneth Prewitt would love our America better, as would I, if we did not employ a system for classifying Americans that was created long ago by racists.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
I provide an example from yesterday's Kristof column. I presented in simple English in 3 comments the proposal by Professor Kenneth Prewitt, former US Census Bureau Director to eliminate race/ethnicity questions from the 2020 Census.
A reader replied that "Your (my, LL) prescription may be valid from your European perspective…but may not be very successful here.”
The prescription came not from me but from the leading expert on the truly exceptional USCB system for classifying Americans, and I once again urge Charles Blow to tackle this subject.
I believe that Kenneth Prewitt would love our America better, as would I, if we did not employ a system for classifying Americans that was created long ago by racists.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
5
The irony is that those like Giuliani who parrot American Exceptionalism in only its self-congratulatory sense have become what the used to detest. Wasn't it Pravda, Isvestia and Radio Moscow that ceaselessly told the Russian people and the world about the wonders of the Soviet Union? Giuliani and his like evidently don't understand that when people are force-fed this stuff they stop listening; he does himself no good doubling down, even on Fox and the WSJ.
5
Rudy Giuliani loves America so much he dodged the Viet Nam draft.
Rudy Giuliani loves America so much he lobbied to make Bernie Kerik the first Secretary of the new Department of Homeland Security, before Kerik went to prison for taking illegal gratuities from a mob connected construction company.
Conversely, America loves Giuliani so much he didn't win a single primary when he ran for President.
Rudy Giuliani loves America so much he lobbied to make Bernie Kerik the first Secretary of the new Department of Homeland Security, before Kerik went to prison for taking illegal gratuities from a mob connected construction company.
Conversely, America loves Giuliani so much he didn't win a single primary when he ran for President.
761
The latter just means America doesnt love Guiliani, not the other way around :D
5
craig - Poor ol' Rudy and the crowd of plutocrats and apparatchiks he was speaking to; he doesn't feel loved by Obama - " He doesn't love me. He doesn't love you. "
Well, boo hoo hoo hoo !
What an indictment of plutocrats' attitude; what unimaginable pandering !
Pity the poor billionaires' and Rudy's egos that leave them so narcissistically needy; how embarrassing.
A ludicrous piece of performance art from Rudy.
Anyway, how have the plutocrats and Rudy been showing they love Obama ?
After all, he holds the revered office of POTUS in their revered land.
Well, boo hoo hoo hoo !
What an indictment of plutocrats' attitude; what unimaginable pandering !
Pity the poor billionaires' and Rudy's egos that leave them so narcissistically needy; how embarrassing.
A ludicrous piece of performance art from Rudy.
Anyway, how have the plutocrats and Rudy been showing they love Obama ?
After all, he holds the revered office of POTUS in their revered land.
16
I wonder! Is that the same "mob" that Giuliani's father worked for, after that is, he was released from prison for felony assault and other charges?
2
Too bad mr. Blow that there are so few Americans who dare say outloud what you have just written. First of all mr. Giuliani does not love America as it should be loved for its good. He loves mr. Giuliani for that reason and is paying lip service to the words he has been indoctrinated with. Erroneously indoctrinated in supposing that would give people an identity. Old farts, and lawyers do not make America; youth and very well educated people do. Over 40% of the population believes that the earth and the universe are 7000 years old. To love America one should not have to love the millions of flags, which are hanging all over the place, but the people which occupy the country. The President loves those people and is trying to help them coping with life and their position in the world, to help them control their fears, which are being stirred up again and again by the power hungry (neo) conservatives. To help them, by providing proper education for them, and keeping them healthy at affordable costs. That is called Presidential love.
74
Exceptionally stupid is still exceptional. Who died and left Rudy a judge of who is patriotic and who loves whom.
164
There are those in the Republican party who want to 'Photoshop' American history for their own short-sighted, ignorant goals.
122
To paraphrase Rudy Giuliani, I do not believe, and I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe Republicans love America. The Republicans don't love you. And Republicans don't love me. Republicans weren't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country. In fact when you look at everything they have said and done they actually hate America and are doing everything they can to destroy America.
Need I remind anyone the foundation of today's Republican Party is built upon the politics of the old Civil War South ("the Southern Strategy") - the politics of hate that was out to destroy the nation to uphold slavery, and whereas Lincoln said "...government of the people; by the people; and for the people..." Ronald Reagan, the icon of today's rightwing said, "...government is the problem..." in other words, today's rightwing can't stand even the fundamental idea of America.
As disturbing as Giuliani's remarks, it is the deafening silence or even support of virtually the entire rightwing on what he said that is even more disturbing. Talk about a group of spineless politicians the rightwing really takes the cake.
Need I remind anyone the foundation of today's Republican Party is built upon the politics of the old Civil War South ("the Southern Strategy") - the politics of hate that was out to destroy the nation to uphold slavery, and whereas Lincoln said "...government of the people; by the people; and for the people..." Ronald Reagan, the icon of today's rightwing said, "...government is the problem..." in other words, today's rightwing can't stand even the fundamental idea of America.
As disturbing as Giuliani's remarks, it is the deafening silence or even support of virtually the entire rightwing on what he said that is even more disturbing. Talk about a group of spineless politicians the rightwing really takes the cake.
1090
zb - Obama got bin Laden, the GOP'ers didn't; that's the biggest difference.
Rudy is leading the GOP'er effort to try and drive Obama's poll numbers down so that he is neutralized in being able to help a Dem in 2016, much like GOP'ers did in the 2014 mid-terms.
As a side-benefit, they will say/do anything to motivate their base while driving debate down to the lowest common denominator, hoping to keep everyone else away from the polls.
They want to drive down Democratic turn-out in an presidential election year, since GOP'ers have 24 Senate seats to defend, whilst Dems only have 10 Senate seats to defend - GOP'ers don't want to lose the Senate.
GOP'er ugliness and lies have only just begun.
Rudy is leading the GOP'er effort to try and drive Obama's poll numbers down so that he is neutralized in being able to help a Dem in 2016, much like GOP'ers did in the 2014 mid-terms.
As a side-benefit, they will say/do anything to motivate their base while driving debate down to the lowest common denominator, hoping to keep everyone else away from the polls.
They want to drive down Democratic turn-out in an presidential election year, since GOP'ers have 24 Senate seats to defend, whilst Dems only have 10 Senate seats to defend - GOP'ers don't want to lose the Senate.
GOP'er ugliness and lies have only just begun.
26
You have identified the essential reason for America's relentless decline since Reagan became President in 1981. Current GOP positions on all major issues reflect the sub rosa racism that has been at the Republican Party's core since the southern states became solidly Republican in the late 1960s.
The Republican Party is the party of hatred, not only for our government but for our people.
The Republican Party is the party of hatred, not only for our government but for our people.
17
Liberals cheered when Obama called Bush unpatriotic. Can you see the hypocrisy in all of this?
2
There is indeed a great deal of confusion about who loves America, and what it means to be American. For some politicians, there is even confusion about which flag they work under.
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20150202-richard-parker...
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20150202-richard-parker...
10
I think Guiliani would take this as an insult, albeit not intended as so, but I know several middle school students who act more maturely than him. Grow up Rudy.
26
Or as the great John Legend put it: "The sign said 'America love it or leave.' Well, has it really come to that? And beside, I don't want to, and you can't make me love. I've got too many friends, that have shed their blood. I've got too many relatives here born on this land. So you can't make me leave. I say this is my county and you can't make me leave. You can't make me love the way you treat me. And you can't make me love the way you beat me."
26
The right wing spends its energies on demeaning and attacking its perceived enemies i.e. anyone who even slightly disagrees with it, imaginary or not.
There is no winning with this crowd.
There is no winning with this crowd.
53
I don't know whether Mr. G's mother is dead or alive, but either way, I'm pretty sure she's telling him right now to shut up about other people's mothers.
72
Mr. Blow - there are nuggets of gold in your piece. Indeed, "America is not static. America is striving." This is, in my opinion, one way to define it's exceptionalism. And this paragraph IS "magical":
"Seeking to preserve and enshrine one vision of this country from one period of its past robs it of what makes it magical: its infinite possibility for adjustment."
I have encountered many foreigners who believe in America's magic for adjustment. They envy and admire it. So do I. Yet we must strive to improve and we will.
"Seeking to preserve and enshrine one vision of this country from one period of its past robs it of what makes it magical: its infinite possibility for adjustment."
I have encountered many foreigners who believe in America's magic for adjustment. They envy and admire it. So do I. Yet we must strive to improve and we will.
25
Mr. Obama "is also not shy about pointing out where America can improve".
However, the sentiment of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., to (strive or struggle to implement ideas) "to be true to what you said on paper" is a lot more positive and easier to accept than the sentiments of either Mr. Blow (explaining the President) or Mr. Baldwin who state (respectively):
"You can simultaneously love and be disappointed in the object of your love, wanting it to be better than it is. In fact that is a measure of love" or "I love America more than any other country in the world....I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually".
Try living in a marriage with love like that described by Mr. Blow or try running a classroom (much less a country) in that manner described by Mr. Baldwin. While it is true that "it is all in the presentation", most of those who criticize, and especially over-criticize, usually do not know how to do it successfully.
However, the sentiment of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., to (strive or struggle to implement ideas) "to be true to what you said on paper" is a lot more positive and easier to accept than the sentiments of either Mr. Blow (explaining the President) or Mr. Baldwin who state (respectively):
"You can simultaneously love and be disappointed in the object of your love, wanting it to be better than it is. In fact that is a measure of love" or "I love America more than any other country in the world....I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually".
Try living in a marriage with love like that described by Mr. Blow or try running a classroom (much less a country) in that manner described by Mr. Baldwin. While it is true that "it is all in the presentation", most of those who criticize, and especially over-criticize, usually do not know how to do it successfully.
6
Citizenship isn't marriage. And a writer isn't - at least in a liberal democracy - expected to conduct himself like a schoolteacher. A man enduring the social circumstances that Baldwin had to has more than earned the right to criticize perpetually. It's absurd to suggest that there is any 'over-criticism' involved there. What part of, say, Baldwin's criticisms would you object to: the criticism of lynchings, segregated public facilities, schools, water fountains, slavery, the grinding down of a people's spirit, the loosing of police dogs on peaceful demonstrators, the murder of innocent schoolgirls, the bombing of churches? Is there a point at which criticism becomes 'too much' and 'unhelpful'? In one sense, of course, Giuliani is quite right. Someone who has had to put up with such treatment - and Obama has endured his share of the indignities routinesly visited on African-American men - is likely to have a quite different view of the country from Giuliani's heroes and himself.
50
The debate about American exceptionalism has been going on for a long time, nearly two hundred years, in fact. Jefferson and Adams worried over it in the 1820s. Hamilton and Madison worried over it at the Constitutional Convention in the 1780s. Heck, Charles Dickens had plenty to say about it that he later had to apologize for (book sales, you know). For a European take on America check out this document: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/675/675-h/675-h.htm
2
Giuliani didn't backpedal. Speaking with Fox's blondest, most popular spokesmodel I mean newsreader Megyn Kelly, he doubled down. When invited by Kelly to apologize, America's mayor-turned-clown refused, saying "I’m right about this. I have no doubt about it. I do not withdraw my words".
He lurched on, ticking down the usual tropes of Reverend Wright, Frank Marshall Davis and Saul Alinsky, like a wind-up version of Donald Trump minus the combover, seeming to come within a, um, hair of demanding a birth certificate.
Kelly, to her credit, pushed back on several points and was visibly surprised at his intransigence. When statements are so absurd that Megyn Kelly raises a botoxed eyebrow, a sane person would know they're out on a limb. Kelly offered Giuliani several lifelines, all refused.
One can only conclude that Giuliani has gone gaga. There's no percentage for him in disrespecting the president. It's not like he can run for any office again, and none occupants of the 2016 GOP Clown Car seem to have any use for him outside of a sideshow attraction for fundraising.
Giuliani also told Sean Hannity that "President Obama didn't live through 9/11, I did". Well excuse me, Rude Rudy, we ALL lived through 9/11. You don't own it. We were proud of you then, but you've spent the intervening years boorishly profiting from your moment, reducing yourself to irrelevancy. That's not love of country either, it's egotism and tactlessness.
He lurched on, ticking down the usual tropes of Reverend Wright, Frank Marshall Davis and Saul Alinsky, like a wind-up version of Donald Trump minus the combover, seeming to come within a, um, hair of demanding a birth certificate.
Kelly, to her credit, pushed back on several points and was visibly surprised at his intransigence. When statements are so absurd that Megyn Kelly raises a botoxed eyebrow, a sane person would know they're out on a limb. Kelly offered Giuliani several lifelines, all refused.
One can only conclude that Giuliani has gone gaga. There's no percentage for him in disrespecting the president. It's not like he can run for any office again, and none occupants of the 2016 GOP Clown Car seem to have any use for him outside of a sideshow attraction for fundraising.
Giuliani also told Sean Hannity that "President Obama didn't live through 9/11, I did". Well excuse me, Rude Rudy, we ALL lived through 9/11. You don't own it. We were proud of you then, but you've spent the intervening years boorishly profiting from your moment, reducing yourself to irrelevancy. That's not love of country either, it's egotism and tactlessness.
889
Perhaps Rudy is suffering from some perverse form of PTSD where he has flashbacks to 1851 or so, but then this is a guy who decided to put NYC's emergency management headquarters, NY's own "war room" right in the middle of a once attacked and famously attractive target for terrorists, the WTC. For him, 9/11 was a sign from god that he was destined to lead, it was his anointment, his baptism. It washed away the guilt for his Gingrich-esque treatment of successive wives and lovers, imbuing him with the notion that anything he said or did would be welcome with adoration and support by the "common folks". He didn't notice that nobody was throwing rose petals, or that his new suit was invisible. Now he's doubled down on the fairy tale, and I have no doubt that in order to stay in the news, if not relevant, he'd do pretty much anything, including kissing a frog. It seems like he's hell bent for leather to out-Trump Trump, but as yet hasn't decided to join the hair club for aliens.
I'm guessing he want's to be president for one reason only, so he may repay a long standing debt by pardoning his running buddy Bernie Kerik, and restore him to his former state of exceptionalism. The notion of Giuliani holding any elected office gives me an exceptional headache.
I suggest he mount his white horse, gather his posse, and join them in singing "Camptown Races", while the rest of us sing "I get a kick out of you", with emphasis on the line about champagne.
I'm guessing he want's to be president for one reason only, so he may repay a long standing debt by pardoning his running buddy Bernie Kerik, and restore him to his former state of exceptionalism. The notion of Giuliani holding any elected office gives me an exceptional headache.
I suggest he mount his white horse, gather his posse, and join them in singing "Camptown Races", while the rest of us sing "I get a kick out of you", with emphasis on the line about champagne.
18
heynorris - Right, Megyn should have handed Rudy a hanky since " He (Obama) doesn't love you. And he (Obama) doesn't love me. "
Then Megyn and Rudy could have commiserated about how wrong it is for a roomful of high-end GOP'er donors and Rudy to feel like they do about Obama and Obama to not be showing 'em some love !
Very few better instances of deranged GOP'er plutocrat narcissism and un-bounded egotism have been publicly performed.
Then Megyn and Rudy could have commiserated about how wrong it is for a roomful of high-end GOP'er donors and Rudy to feel like they do about Obama and Obama to not be showing 'em some love !
Very few better instances of deranged GOP'er plutocrat narcissism and un-bounded egotism have been publicly performed.
18
Giuliani directly contributed to the damage in the World Trade Center by personally storing thousands of gallons of diesel fuel in 7 WTC.
8
Mr. Walker's tepid response to Mr. Giulani's appalling misstep shows that he's not at all qualified to lead the country that I love.
74
Pew's numbers tell the story: Giuliani's side's ideology has lost its power to persuade, as younger and younger Americans no longer believe the US "stands above all countries." They know too much, specifically about our decision to destroy Iraq's infrastructure, leaving its people to try to pick up the pieces. They know about Abu Ghraib and how it re-opened "under new management." They know we tortured accused terrorists, and not merely in the ways depicted on "24." Additionally, for the last six years, many of them have heard a president, who loves America in a way its apologists never can or will, tell them that their country has made great strides, but that its history is one that was quite dark for many people and one whose present still does not offer enough hope or justice. The younger generations are listening to Mr. Obama's perspective and finding it harder and harder to grasp Mr. Giuliani's. This is healthy for the US, in both the short and long term.
1062
I like your optimism . . . unfortunately, religious right-wing ideology still rules here. both young and old are of much the same mind and it doesn't look like change is coming here any time soon.
4
No, what it is is a reflection of my former friends and colleagues from the anti-War anti-America movement of the late 60's who have dominated academia and the media bringing a different viewpoint to the "body politique". This is a group that debases the military, the police, and the social and political "mores" that have embodied the concept of American exceptionalism. Guiliani in his inarticulate way is part of the old school. Obama is emblematic of the anti-war anti-America ideology of the former anti-war cohort.
I say this as a former leftie who knows and is friends with many of these people and have lived in their enclaves in NYC, the Hudson River valley and the west side of L.A.
I say this as a former leftie who knows and is friends with many of these people and have lived in their enclaves in NYC, the Hudson River valley and the west side of L.A.
beautifully put. By ideology and generation, only conservative, older Fox folks believe that the US is above all other countries, and even then, far less than a majority of them. This is MLK's vision of progress writ large and small. As with gay marriage, anti-marijuana phobia, and climate change denial, the force of history and demographics is firmly against the forces of reaction in this country. Of course, with Koch, diet Koch and Koch Zero, there is a pretty powerful countervailing oligarchical force, so, as always, follow the money.
1
Giuliani's old and irrelevant now; a has-been for quite some time. Even in his heyday, Giuliani was not known for being faithful, kind, or gracious. This weekend, he was unrepentant and unapologetic:
"I don't regret making the statement," Giuliani told Acosta, according to the reporter. "I believe it. I don't know if he loves America ... I don't feel the same enthusiasm from him for America."
Scott Walker, when asked about President Obama's Christianity, said he didn't know. When asked about Obama's love for this country, he would not - could not - bring himself to contradict Giuliani.
Eric Erickson tweeted:
"I don't think Obama is a Christian. He certainly is not one in a meaningful way."
These dog-whistles are the same ones white Americans have used to diminish "other" people for centuries. They've been used against Blacks and Jews, and now Giuliani used it against our president to paint him as perfidious.
James Baldwin on racist whites:
"For these innocent people have no other hope. They are, in effect, still trapped in a history which they do not understand; and until they understand it they cannot be released from it. They have had to believe for many years, and for innumerable reasons, that black men are inferior to white men. Many of them, indeed, know better, but, as you will discover, people find it very difficult to act on what they know.”
Giuliani knows this as well as Baldwin did and was cynical enough to use it. How... unexceptional!
"I don't regret making the statement," Giuliani told Acosta, according to the reporter. "I believe it. I don't know if he loves America ... I don't feel the same enthusiasm from him for America."
Scott Walker, when asked about President Obama's Christianity, said he didn't know. When asked about Obama's love for this country, he would not - could not - bring himself to contradict Giuliani.
Eric Erickson tweeted:
"I don't think Obama is a Christian. He certainly is not one in a meaningful way."
These dog-whistles are the same ones white Americans have used to diminish "other" people for centuries. They've been used against Blacks and Jews, and now Giuliani used it against our president to paint him as perfidious.
James Baldwin on racist whites:
"For these innocent people have no other hope. They are, in effect, still trapped in a history which they do not understand; and until they understand it they cannot be released from it. They have had to believe for many years, and for innumerable reasons, that black men are inferior to white men. Many of them, indeed, know better, but, as you will discover, people find it very difficult to act on what they know.”
Giuliani knows this as well as Baldwin did and was cynical enough to use it. How... unexceptional!
432
Rudy Giuliani: I Received Death Threats In Wake Of Obama Comments
Scott Walker Says He Doesn't Know If Obama Is Christian
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/21/rudy-giuliani-obama-death-threa...
Erickson: I Don’t Think Obama Is A Christian
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/erick-erickson-scott-walker-obama-...
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scott-walker-don-t-know-obama-chri...
and... lest we forget, the audio tape of Governor Scott Walker talking to a prankster who was impersonating David Koch.
Did ScottWalker Get Crank-Call Pwned? (AUDIO) UPDATE: YES http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/scott-walker-koch-brother-crank-...
If exceptionalism is thinking and talking as these people do, I, for one, want no part of it.
Scott Walker Says He Doesn't Know If Obama Is Christian
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/21/rudy-giuliani-obama-death-threa...
Erickson: I Don’t Think Obama Is A Christian
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/erick-erickson-scott-walker-obama-...
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scott-walker-don-t-know-obama-chri...
and... lest we forget, the audio tape of Governor Scott Walker talking to a prankster who was impersonating David Koch.
Did ScottWalker Get Crank-Call Pwned? (AUDIO) UPDATE: YES http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/scott-walker-koch-brother-crank-...
If exceptionalism is thinking and talking as these people do, I, for one, want no part of it.
75
Its funny, from those attacks you'd think Obama would be running in the next Presidential election. I mean, seriously, whats the point of attacking Obama at this point in time? Setting up your bona fides with the "base"? Well, good for them but its not like they'd vote for anyone not supported by the RNC and while it might win you a nomination, it wont win you an election for President, Romney proved that.
18
You say "old" like its a bad thing.
Ruth Bader Ginsberg is 81
Jerry Brown is 76
Heck, Betty White is 93
Age is not a pejorative.
Ruth Bader Ginsberg is 81
Jerry Brown is 76
Heck, Betty White is 93
Age is not a pejorative.
6