It is standard in all levels of competition, for a team to forfeit wins it gained using an ineligible player. It doesn't matter if a team is white or black, or when the accusations came about, or what the motivation is behind the accuser, or what the coaches did to try to coverup the infractions, or if the coaches did not even know they were using an ineligible player. Had the coach ensured his paperwork was in order for all players PRIOR to competition, this incident would have never happened. But any coach knows that using an age eligible ringer who is ineligible based on boundaries is just as serious as an infraction as using a 15-year old ringer who lives within the boundaries. A ringer impacts the outcome of the game and if they are used in violation of well-established rules, knowingly or not, the team must forfeit those wins regardless of politics, race, economic issues, etc.
I just don't understand how the race card is once again pulled when a Black issue is at hand. If the same behavior was pulled by a non-Black team there would be shouts of unfairness etc. but no race card antics. It's this very behavior that throws us into a deeper racial divide in this country. It's not just LL activity at issue here it's the attitude that everything bad that happens to Blacks is because of others and not looking closer to home.
Time to get back to basics. Anything else will increase political exploitation of little boys.
1
If pro baseball had this kind of integrity, they'd exclude their cheaters from the record book and Hall of Fame.
I grew up in that area. It is not as cut and dry as people think. Residency is a loose concept for many kids. The documents showing the kids lived in the suburbs (and hence not eligible for JRW, a city team) actually might be the falsified documents. The suburban schools are better. My high school in the burbs had a bunch of city kids who stayed with relatives during the school year. I am not letting the coaches, or players, off the hook. They probably knew the rules and (kids inlcuded), knowingly skirted them. But it is a lot more nuanced than it seems.
And yes, there is a long history of racism in those suburbs. It is not race carding, it is a fact. This story will give some color on the race relations in that area.
http://www.wbez.org/series/race-out-loud/decade-coaches-try-bridge-racia...
And yes, there is a long history of racism in those suburbs. It is not race carding, it is a fact. This story will give some color on the race relations in that area.
http://www.wbez.org/series/race-out-loud/decade-coaches-try-bridge-racia...
1
High school kids in New Jersey Catholic schools change their schools on a regular basis to improve their visibility and chances for a college athletic scholarship. Some travel 20 or more miles to attend the school of their choice. The cheating by Jackie Robinson West is not an aberration. it happens everywhere. They just got caught.
1
Kids sports out of control. The underlying problem here is everyone thinks their kid is a superstar on a trajectory to beome a college number 1 draft pick and professional. In my state recreation programs are becoming more like farm leagues where clubs teams take children at a young age and charge parents thousands of dollars with the hint that their child will be the next Lebron or Derrick Jeter. Some of these children never play on their high school team becasue they are so "special". In fact if your on a club team in soccer you can't play recreation or public school soccer. That child is convinced they are a star and when the realty occurs that there are thousands and thousands of talented players just like that child what are they left with? This is what....Weekends of broken families traveling everywhere favoring one child over the other. That connection of playing a sport in a school with your friends you have have grown up with. The constant reinforcement that you are a star and confusion and realization that this is not the case. Parents who I are only worried about winning and finally thousands of dollars that should have been in a 529 but are instead in the pockets of smart explayers who see businees opportunity and exploit communities.
This is what happens when adults create leagues for kids. Baseball or stickball should be played in an alley or a pasture without adult interference. Just for fun. Why should kids be pressed into leagues so they can learn to cheat and be sacrificed to adult egos? I loved baseball until I had to play for American Cyanamid. "Leave them kids alone!!"
1
Get ready to take off your shoes, boys. Like at the airport, but now they will be checking just how far you walked to be in the team. Loser adults taught winner kids that cheating is how to win. Let these kids grow up to be better than those who ruined this experience for them, most of whom probably couldnt throw a ball from the mound to the catcher. Always seems to be those...
So they gerrymanderd just like all of my IL political districts . Those folks get to keep their congressional seats.
4
To be clear, I'm a sports guy and believe strongly in kids sports. To see the Chicago kids win the big one, then have it jerked away, is sad indeed. To make it into a "racial issue" is indeed, a further distraction from the kids efforts! We all know they "won", don't tarnish it with the race card.
IMO, it's real simple, the adults cheated and the kids did not. Since cheating was involved, the win goes away.
We see the influence of religion on H.S. sports everyday as better players migrate to those schools, then those schools play for the titles-happens all over the USA but it's not a "religious problem", it's administrative perhaps?
Truth be known, in the current Little League set up, the playoffs will always be skewed towards the larger urban areas being the victors, with teams/kids like Chicago's having far more chance to make it to the big game than any rural areas. many rural areas cannot even participate in the "real" little league because of costs involved. Is that fair?
IMO, it's real simple, the adults cheated and the kids did not. Since cheating was involved, the win goes away.
We see the influence of religion on H.S. sports everyday as better players migrate to those schools, then those schools play for the titles-happens all over the USA but it's not a "religious problem", it's administrative perhaps?
Truth be known, in the current Little League set up, the playoffs will always be skewed towards the larger urban areas being the victors, with teams/kids like Chicago's having far more chance to make it to the big game than any rural areas. many rural areas cannot even participate in the "real" little league because of costs involved. Is that fair?
2
I cannot say that the revelation of the Chicago teams tapping players from outside their district diminished my appreciation of all the great ball play I watched.but it did get me thinking about those teams that did not. You're probably wondering where I am headed with this so I'll get to the point..I sincerely doubt that the teams that did NOT go outside their districts picked their teams from a hat. In a league there are always a few guns-HO coaches who lobby heavily to put the best candidates on a single team. ThOse teams go on to dominate and move through the divisional levels without question,is that really fair to the kids put on teams with less athletically gifted members? I coached in manhattan and actually had some parents ask me if their child ( who I might say we're talented) if they could switch to a stronger team. My response to them was"do you want your child to have fair play or lopsided play thai means nothing" Some left but the majority stayed.Those who stayed , i worked with to improve their strengths and hone their skills to the point that my smaller less athletic crew stepped up to the plate literally, and beat these lopsided teams with sheer determination . My question is how far back should Little League officials dig for cheating? I still run into the kids and parents of my less talented but more motivated Little Leaguers, who thank me for the great memories!
On his sports talk show yesterday, Mike Francesa reported that by the fifth inning, the pitcher needed a shave.
The indignation and condemnation of these actions of cheating the system are well founded.
If only people would extend these same sentiments to others who cheat the systems...be it with taxes or school or immigration.
If only people would extend these same sentiments to others who cheat the systems...be it with taxes or school or immigration.
"The End justifies the Means!"
It's not the rules, or the lack of them.
It's the morality of America, or lack thereof.
It's not the rules, or the lack of them.
It's the morality of America, or lack thereof.
2
I seldom watch pro-baseball anymore; it's very time consuming and boring. But the Jackie Robinson team had me riveted to the television. Enthusiasm and excitement that are unfurled in child's play held me as no adult sport ever could. Although I am a Chicagoan, I believe that the whole country was captivated by these Little League playoffs.
The leaders of this team cheated and I believe that the boys were fully aware that some of their teammates were from beyond the team's legal boundaries. So the lesson they were being taught was that it's okay to cheat to win. Now that their title has been stripped, they have learned the real lesson: when cheating is uncovered, the cheater is demeaned. Somehow, this has me thinking about the Brian Williams scandal. He learned his lesson too late. I'm sure it's not too late for the youngsters on this team.
The leaders of this team cheated and I believe that the boys were fully aware that some of their teammates were from beyond the team's legal boundaries. So the lesson they were being taught was that it's okay to cheat to win. Now that their title has been stripped, they have learned the real lesson: when cheating is uncovered, the cheater is demeaned. Somehow, this has me thinking about the Brian Williams scandal. He learned his lesson too late. I'm sure it's not too late for the youngsters on this team.
2
"Say it isn't so Joe."
1
no way they're champs (and putting a kid player out there to say so is just one more grown up screw up, criminally cynical!)....what they are is cheats.
1
It is so racist to equitably enforce rules of fair play.
4
“This is a heartbreaking decision,” Stephen D. Keener, the president and chief executive of Little League International, said in a statement....".
And a vital opportunity, leading these innocent boys into learning first-hand what it takes to be an upstanding citizen "..... fair play should be valued more than wins and losses."
And a vital opportunity, leading these innocent boys into learning first-hand what it takes to be an upstanding citizen "..... fair play should be valued more than wins and losses."
2
Could this article be a little more specific? How many players were from "out of the district"? If these players were so good, why were the coaches of the "raided" districts not raising a red flag and complaining that those players should have been on their team? It sounds to me like there was a lot of collusion locally and a poor due diligence nationally if these charges are true. The lack of specificity reminds me of third world dictatorships.
5
The kids unfortunately are punished by the cheating and manipulation of adults. I read comments of racism, so they are teaching their kids cheating and lying are okay because of their ethnicity? I read other comments blaming 12 and 13 year old kids for the illicit actions of their parents and coaches. Really? I and my family celebrated the success of the Jackie Robinson West team at the time. This is tragic especially for the kids on the Jackie Robinson West team and the kids on the teams who followed the rules. I understand the goal in any sport is to win the game. That being said, especially in youth sports, that should be secondary to teaching good sportsmanship, teamwork, and respect for the other team and the rules of the game, irrespective of the ethnicity of the players.
1
As a former District Administrator there is no way that all participants: League officials, Managers, Coaches, Players, parents, didn't know about these ringers.
All leagues have a "regular" season and then form a tournament team from these games. Did these "ringers" play during the regular season in that league?
I don't suppose so. Then when the tournament team was formed, everyone knew that they had ringers that didn't play during the regular season.
Yes the children did not participate in this dishonest selection, but everyone had to know that they where cheating.
All leagues have a "regular" season and then form a tournament team from these games. Did these "ringers" play during the regular season in that league?
I don't suppose so. Then when the tournament team was formed, everyone knew that they had ringers that didn't play during the regular season.
Yes the children did not participate in this dishonest selection, but everyone had to know that they where cheating.
4
James...thanks for a timely explanation of the way teams are really chosen...and asking the pertinent questions of when did the "ringers" enter the league to play...at the beginning of the season or at the time the all star or traveling team selection process occurred. These "facts" would help settle blame, point directly to the people who "share" responsibility for this tragic attack on a national pastime for so many boys and girls (and parents), and provide a factual basis for the comments and concern as it might affect our present culture issues here and elsewhere. ...and..... what a novel idea to get all the facts, determine who was at fault...issue appropriate consequences and plan for strategies to keep undesirable behaviors from happening again ... and again...and again!
1
They have to play during regular season. I think it's 60% of games. Of course one could cook the books.
1
Unfortunately, hyper-competitive, unscrupulous adults took advantage of all of the players - the JRW players included - to achieve their goals. None of the players should be punished. The rules are clear, however, and everyone - the JRW players included - knew this going in. Just as the baseball tournament was a learning experience, so will this be. Don't blame Little League officials. The title should be taken away from JRW. The positive memories of the players and honest parents and fans cannot be taken away.
Undoubtedly the decisions to break the rules and bring in outside players were made by adults and not children. It is unfortunate that the young players are swept up in the consequences. But it seems the right decision. Our college and professional athletic teams and athletes should be held to the same standards, including professional football teams like the recent Superbowl champions. We should not revere and reward those who win by cheating.
2
nor their enablers in williamsport (see, hear, speak no diligence as long as the check clears) pa.
I played Little League baseball a long time ago in a town of 30,000 near Chicago, with two all-star teams competing in the Little League tournament. Everyone understood that the tournament teams were formed on the basis of geographic boundaries. If we had tried to form a super team from the two leagues, or had imported star players from other towns to play on our teams, everyone would have known. Even at the age of 12 we understood very well that you can't game the system by putting together an all-star with the best players from every town around. Every team who got demolished by Jackie Robinson West must have wondered how so many star players could have come from the same league. Now we know.
7
For those of you who are throwing the race card here, I have a question. It has been established that JRW recruited baseball players from well outside its southwest Chicago boundaries. They added players from both other areas in the city, and from a number of suburban towns. Why didn't they recruit any white boys for their team? Believe it or not, white kids live in those areas, too. Or, for that matter, any Hispanic kids?
Are we expected to believe that that is a coincidence?
Are we expected to believe that that is a coincidence?
6
"If you ain't cheating , then you ain't trying."
Seems the adults forgot this was a kids game , sad early wake up call to the kids about the real world.
My advice ....Kids go play two for Ernie.
Seems the adults forgot this was a kids game , sad early wake up call to the kids about the real world.
My advice ....Kids go play two for Ernie.
2
Rules are rules; cheating is cheating.
The tragedy is the sins of the adults are being visited on the kids--who did nothing wrong but are now being severely punished and humiliated--more so than the real wrongdoers.
The tragedy is the sins of the adults are being visited on the kids--who did nothing wrong but are now being severely punished and humiliated--more so than the real wrongdoers.
2
It is a shame that the kids have to suffer the consequences of the adult's choice to cheat.
2
I am heart broken for these children misled by adults.
1
"A player will be deemed to reside within the league boundaries if either of the player’s parents (or his/her court appointed legal guardian) reside within such boundaries. It is unacceptable if a parent moves into a league’s boundaries for the purpose of qualifying for tournament play.
“Residence” refers to a place of bona fide continuous habitation. A place of residence once established shall not be considered changed unless the parents, parent or guardian makes a bona fide change of residence. Residence shall be established and supported by documents as specified."
This is the relevant rule. You can drive a freight train through it. One parent moving into the district is enough -- the kid doesn't have to move. And that parent can easily come up with a legitimate explanation. If he gets the necessary documents there's no way to prove bad intent. And there is no time limit, so he can move back pretty much whenever. Little League isn't the FBI. If compliance looks legit they'll back off.
Jackie Robinson clearly violated the law. But lots of teams may be driving freight trains through it. Who knows? If you've watched little league, the level of talent is extraordinary. If a bunch of teams are bending rules, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
“Residence” refers to a place of bona fide continuous habitation. A place of residence once established shall not be considered changed unless the parents, parent or guardian makes a bona fide change of residence. Residence shall be established and supported by documents as specified."
This is the relevant rule. You can drive a freight train through it. One parent moving into the district is enough -- the kid doesn't have to move. And that parent can easily come up with a legitimate explanation. If he gets the necessary documents there's no way to prove bad intent. And there is no time limit, so he can move back pretty much whenever. Little League isn't the FBI. If compliance looks legit they'll back off.
Jackie Robinson clearly violated the law. But lots of teams may be driving freight trains through it. Who knows? If you've watched little league, the level of talent is extraordinary. If a bunch of teams are bending rules, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
1
Little League is a corporation and its World Series is the flagship event. In having the event they pick the best players from each league and have an extensive playoff season. This, in my experience, has the majority of kids cut loose from the game in the middle of summer because they didn't make the team. It would be better for the kids if the playoffs were abandoned and the game stayed a local recreation. That however wouldn't generate income or publicity, so the organization would never consider it.
2
Was A Rod an advisor to this team while he sat out last year?
1
To those who state that "the kids knew they were cheating," I think it is unrealistic to assume a 12 year old has the knowledge, skills and confidence to play the role of whistle blower here. A player who raised questions would likely be given a bogus explanation or perhaps reminded that his job was to play and to leave the details to the officials. The fact that this was investigated for months before surfacing suggests that it would not have been a simple matter for a youngster (or even a parent) to handle.
1
No it means L.L. attempted to cover it up, among other things, claiming boundary maps were confidential and proprietary.
To all the people who are saying how 'proud' they are of these kids,
. . . How is it, that you can claim to be proud of somebody else's activities that you had absolutely nothing to do with?
To these kids:
a) If they're mad, they should be mad at the adults who deliberately engaged in unethical behavior. They were not only lying to the league, but essentially they were lying to these kids, who weren't 'in on the con'.
b) This is essentially an "on-steriods' type of situation where the adults unethically created a 'dream team' to compete against other regular teams made up of only kids from specific 'neighborhoods. The fact that these kids themselves didn't commit this offense, doesn't un-poison the experience of the other teams who competing against an unlevel playing field.
c) We will never know, but if this team had been stripped down to only those kids who actually were from the 'specified' neighborhood-
. . . it is 'most likely' they wouldn't have come close to winning-
but again, we'll never know.
d) In the end, for those kids, they probably all experienced a greater sensation of playing together on a 'dream-team', than they would have gotten on a regular 'neighborhood team and most likely getting washed out early in the process. In the end, that was probably a much better take-away, than retaining possession of some trophy that they didn't deserve.
. . . How is it, that you can claim to be proud of somebody else's activities that you had absolutely nothing to do with?
To these kids:
a) If they're mad, they should be mad at the adults who deliberately engaged in unethical behavior. They were not only lying to the league, but essentially they were lying to these kids, who weren't 'in on the con'.
b) This is essentially an "on-steriods' type of situation where the adults unethically created a 'dream team' to compete against other regular teams made up of only kids from specific 'neighborhoods. The fact that these kids themselves didn't commit this offense, doesn't un-poison the experience of the other teams who competing against an unlevel playing field.
c) We will never know, but if this team had been stripped down to only those kids who actually were from the 'specified' neighborhood-
. . . it is 'most likely' they wouldn't have come close to winning-
but again, we'll never know.
d) In the end, for those kids, they probably all experienced a greater sensation of playing together on a 'dream-team', than they would have gotten on a regular 'neighborhood team and most likely getting washed out early in the process. In the end, that was probably a much better take-away, than retaining possession of some trophy that they didn't deserve.
2
Frankly, the kids situatiin is a reflection of crooked 'ol Chicago. And i live here
Patricia-Please don't play the race card. The adults were caught which is too bad for the kids involved. I would like to know if those recruited had material effects on the games won, which I suspect that they did. If were not very good they would not have been recruited. The kids had a great team but it may not have been that great without the illegal players. They played a game with rules and the adults did them wrong.
1
Sports for children are too organized (by adults). It's turned what should be fun into ultra-competitive competitions. Parents who insult and occasionally attack small-fry officials think their children may lose a college scholarship because of a perceived bad call. They hurl insults at each other, setting great examples for their children. It could be baseball, basketball, hockey, lacrosse, whatever. The parents a/k/a adults are the problem. Maybe the adults think that intensity makes up for the lost time with children that our money grubbing and status seeking society demands.
3
Not a single player on Jackie Robinson West who got to play for titles was harmed by the selfish. The young ball players that were denied their chance to play are the only victims. Those people harmed those children. Those people know the names and faces of the young ball players denied a rightful place on the field.
2
Regardless of the "letter of the law", those kids don't deserve this. They played the games and they won. For maybe the only time in their lives they experienced the joy of success. The feeding frenzy for news in the digital age perpetuates these types of sanctimonious witch-hunts. Truth be told, there is no "integrity" in the Little League program, anywhere. Dig into every team and every community and you'll find dirt. "Justice" may be served by punishing these kids, but there is not one bit of good in it.
4
So why have any rules at all if, according to you, they don't matter?
2
"So why have any rules at all if, according to you, they don't matter?"
You know, Joe, that's a great question. The only answer that I can give is that there is the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. Jackie Robinson West won those games in the ball park, under the rules of the game. The other rules, about districts and jurisdiction, are broken by every good team in the nation. Every good Little League team finds a way around the rules to stack their team. Since those rules are universally broken, admit it, and just play ball. It is a sin to take that trophy away from those kids.
You know, Joe, that's a great question. The only answer that I can give is that there is the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. Jackie Robinson West won those games in the ball park, under the rules of the game. The other rules, about districts and jurisdiction, are broken by every good team in the nation. Every good Little League team finds a way around the rules to stack their team. Since those rules are universally broken, admit it, and just play ball. It is a sin to take that trophy away from those kids.
2
Just one more reason why sports, at ALL levels should be banned for 10 years...and, believe me, I am a sports fan. We need a reality check. Salaries, integrity, and all of it is out of control. The NCAA..out of control. NBA, NFL, MLB, FIFA...out of control. Now Little League? High School sports is out of control, especially in Texas and Florida. It's time for the madness to stop. Golf winnings are ridiculous. Maybe the asteroid really does need to hit. 10 years of no sports will affect everyone, but will send a wake up call.
2
I need to think about that for awhile.
WILL Obama invite the Las Vegas team to the white house as he did the Chicago team??????
4
Hes from chicago: if he wayed to invite his hime team when he thought it was legit that was fine. Its like mayors betting local fare fir superbowls. Geez people someone needs to try to keep the fun in it.
Little League All Star play has clear and specific eligibility rules that are well known by virtually all league and district leadership. There is no question that this was a conspiracy by a large group of adults to break the rules in order to form a stronger team.
It is an unfortunate example of what is becoming common in youth sports, the willingness to do anything to win.
The real sickening questions is the culpability of the players themselves . While current reports state their innocence anyone with detailed knowledge and experience with Little league All-stars must realize that the kids had to know that at best something was wrong.
Little League should have caught this earlier. The size of the conspiracy is shocking. This required league leadership and managers, other district leagues and the district commisioneer to all be involved. You wish someone would have reported them earlier but many must have been afraid. A sad commentary.
It is an unfortunate example of what is becoming common in youth sports, the willingness to do anything to win.
The real sickening questions is the culpability of the players themselves . While current reports state their innocence anyone with detailed knowledge and experience with Little league All-stars must realize that the kids had to know that at best something was wrong.
Little League should have caught this earlier. The size of the conspiracy is shocking. This required league leadership and managers, other district leagues and the district commisioneer to all be involved. You wish someone would have reported them earlier but many must have been afraid. A sad commentary.
17
Usd to be just show birth cert for proof of age. Now its proof of residency. If they have a world series for gods sake they may as well just have teams selected from all stars of each state to qualify and be done eith the sistrict stuff.
2
Absolutely this is a shame and great disappointment for the players.
However, while I am not aware of all the rules of the competition, is it possible that the Little League system puts American teams at a disadvantage relative to teams from other countries. And this contributes to such unfortunate situations.
In the U.S., teams from local regions in all the States compete against each other and the best local team is the American team in the Little League World Series. My impression from watching games on TV is that the teams from other countries are All-Star teams composed of the best players from each of those other countries. If the latter is the case, then the transgression of Jackie Robinson West's management is "peanuts" compared to what their kids must compete against. In that case the US team should also be an American All-Star team. It's impossible to maintain a "local" system in international competition.
However, while I am not aware of all the rules of the competition, is it possible that the Little League system puts American teams at a disadvantage relative to teams from other countries. And this contributes to such unfortunate situations.
In the U.S., teams from local regions in all the States compete against each other and the best local team is the American team in the Little League World Series. My impression from watching games on TV is that the teams from other countries are All-Star teams composed of the best players from each of those other countries. If the latter is the case, then the transgression of Jackie Robinson West's management is "peanuts" compared to what their kids must compete against. In that case the US team should also be an American All-Star team. It's impossible to maintain a "local" system in international competition.
It bears mentioning that the final rarely features the best two teams. Years ago after a string of finals NOT featuring a US team, Little League changed the format segregating the US and international teams to assure a US finalist. Kind of sleazy.
That is in fact the point. The team from another country that reaches the finals would not be nearly as talented if they were restricted to players from a neighborhood, as is JRW and all the American teams. True, the disadvantage is only in one game, the one that matters most, the International Championship game.
It would appear that Baseball is now a cheaters' sport from top to bottom, from the Big Leagues to Little League.
Say it ain't so.... Another day in America: good grief.
Say it ain't so.... Another day in America: good grief.
8
No they are on par with the NFL.
1
Little League's decision has the funk of pure Chicago style racism. There are many, many suburban baseball and other sports leagues comprised of mostly white youth who only play each other. It is no wonder that you have a tremendous number of Black suburban youth that wind-up using city park recreational services near their Grandmas' houses in Chicago proper.
There is no allegation that Jackie Robinson officials recruited outside Chicago. They just accommodated the kids that showed-up at their park. Those are the type of empathic people I want coaching kids.
There is no allegation that Jackie Robinson officials recruited outside Chicago. They just accommodated the kids that showed-up at their park. Those are the type of empathic people I want coaching kids.
2
I love the "they're black, so they should get to cheat" argument you and Jesse Jackson are putting out. When I was in Little League (back in the early 1960s), we had to prove age and residency. The same was true of every other organized sport I played as a kid.
12
The players had to know which ones were out of district. However, the parents and officials controlled it all. Sounds like a dictatorship!
You must be nuts for bringing up the race card where it is totally unfounded in this particular case
2
Good grief. Can't anyone do anything without cheating anymore?
7
Shouldn't have cheated.
3
It not only takes away from what they did on the field, it totally invalidates it. That's what ringers do. They make a victory a sordid scandal and a disgrace.
10
It's naïve to think the players were in the dark. Did the "ringers" play in the regular season? And the managers of their teams never asked where they lived? And the school district is so big, that they went to the same schools as most of the players, even though they lived farther away?
Or did they suddenly appear at the end of the season, just in time for selection of the All-Stars to represent the district?
Or did they suddenly appear at the end of the season, just in time for selection of the All-Stars to represent the district?
10
It is my impression (because it was true 50+ years ago when I played Little League ball) that tournament teams have to prove age and residency. So it seems highly unlikely that the managers "never asked," and more likely that they faked the paperwork.
We don't squawk when a foreign team gets caught cheating. So why is Chicago doing all this whining and special pleading?
We don't squawk when a foreign team gets caught cheating. So why is Chicago doing all this whining and special pleading?
6
I agree the little league officials had no choice but to take this action due to cheating by adults. However these are 13 year old middle school kids here. Those who are ringers were led astray by their parents and coaches and absolutely not responsible. They are victims as are the kids on the teams who followed the rules.
1
Teaching inner city kids that cheating is ok, what could go wrong.
15
They are kids. The people who run the league are pathetic adults.
10
Josh Earnest and the White House should shut their mouths when they have celebrated cheaters. The team was cherry picked from outside its territories. Schools and athletics has had this happen consistently over the decades and the team is disqualified. Period. If the team had been made up of kids from the right neighborhood they would not have won. Otherwise the adults would not have gone looking for ringers outside the boundaries. This is not difficult folks it is called cheating. Anyone who has played sports knows when their team has kids that are not from their neighborhood. Trying to justify it now is absurd.
16
golflaw,
That is actually the worst part of this whole deal. Could the kids who were supposed to be on the JRW team have won the National title? Maybe. We'll never know, and neither will they.
Why not? Because the adults responsible for them didn't believe in them enough to let them try. Instead, they had to insult their own kids by telling them that the only way they could possibly compete was by cheating. I do feel bad for the kids on JRW, because it must really suck to have your parents and coaches insult you in front of the entire world. Even before this team played a game, their parents and coaches were so sure that they would lose, they came up with a plan to cheat.
That's really sad.
That is actually the worst part of this whole deal. Could the kids who were supposed to be on the JRW team have won the National title? Maybe. We'll never know, and neither will they.
Why not? Because the adults responsible for them didn't believe in them enough to let them try. Instead, they had to insult their own kids by telling them that the only way they could possibly compete was by cheating. I do feel bad for the kids on JRW, because it must really suck to have your parents and coaches insult you in front of the entire world. Even before this team played a game, their parents and coaches were so sure that they would lose, they came up with a plan to cheat.
That's really sad.
1
You are 100% correct...
Leave the kids alone. The Little League vetting process is the problem. It's the Little League brass that had a problem. Those in power had the opportunity to have stopped the game before it was played. They didn't. Why....?? Because of $$! Could it be!! Don't tell the kids after they have won, and played their best, that their game has been disallowed. They played their hearts out, they were fantastic. They made the Little League money!! The win should stand. The real penalty would be that the Little League adult officialdom should pay the price and give back any money they received from TV or radio contracts. I haven't heard that possibility mentioned in the media. There is a back story here that needs to be reported media. The guilt lies not in the children, but in the adults. The children's win should stand.
3
I couldn't disagree with you MORE. This scandal has turned into an OPPORTUNITY for the JRW to show LEADERSHIP. Admit your wrongdoings and teach kids the imprtance of HONESTY. That is FAR MORE important than a game. I coached LL for 5 years including All Stars. The coaches are well-versed on the rules of the maps and ages. Why? Because it is an unfair advantage to form a super team OUTSIDE your district. This is what the coaches and DA and league president did.
What example is there to kids if we let the win stand??? Kids LEARN. The skin their knees and they bounce back.
Now Jesse Jackson is involved to possibly sue LL?
FOR WHAT????????
Teach the kids VALUES, FAIR PLAY, and HONESTY. The leaders of JRW should apologize to all, and especially the kids to allow this to happen!!!!! Pure shame.
What example is there to kids if we let the win stand??? Kids LEARN. The skin their knees and they bounce back.
Now Jesse Jackson is involved to possibly sue LL?
FOR WHAT????????
Teach the kids VALUES, FAIR PLAY, and HONESTY. The leaders of JRW should apologize to all, and especially the kids to allow this to happen!!!!! Pure shame.
1
Allegedly there are athletes in Chicago suburban schools playing for scholarships and State Championships that have homes rented to their parents. by school districts. So the political and racial implications (references to Rahm Emanuel) of this "story" are another example of the hypocrisy regarding cheating which, it seems, is endemic in our culture.
ESPN and Little League should be ashamed.
ESPN and Little League should be ashamed.
5
Endemic cheating at all levels of our culture. It all comes down to greed.
9
To tell a kid he can't play on a particular team because he lives in the wrong town is just tooooo close to telling a kid he can't play on the team because he was born in the wrong country. Even Olympic athletes are allowed to compete for countries other than their homelands. Just like Jackie Robinson defied rules, written or implicit, that were bigoted and discriminatory, kudos to these kids for ignoring the bigotry and bureaucracy of some arbitrary committee with a map and a pencil
3
What are you talking about? You vote in your district. You send your kids to the schools in your district. You frequent the parks in your district. And you or your kid plays in the PROPER little league, in your district/boundary.
17
Do you j regularly mouth off about subjects which you know nothing about?
The kids had nothing to do with this. The adults faked the documentation and lied in order to win. Kudos to them for being great role models, for sure.
If any kid could play on any team anywhere in the US, then Little League truly would be a farce and no different from professional sports anywhere. Teams would be recruiting and buying athletes just like everybody else. And by the way, even the Olympics has rules about what country you can represent. Do you actually think that if paperwork was forged to make it look like an athlete was eligible to represent a certain country and it was found out, that the athlete would receive kudos for "ignoring the bigotry and bureaucracy of some arbitrary committee"?? LOL
The kids had nothing to do with this. The adults faked the documentation and lied in order to win. Kudos to them for being great role models, for sure.
If any kid could play on any team anywhere in the US, then Little League truly would be a farce and no different from professional sports anywhere. Teams would be recruiting and buying athletes just like everybody else. And by the way, even the Olympics has rules about what country you can represent. Do you actually think that if paperwork was forged to make it look like an athlete was eligible to represent a certain country and it was found out, that the athlete would receive kudos for "ignoring the bigotry and bureaucracy of some arbitrary committee"?? LOL
People are upset that they were too good lol. I was all for neighborhood sports but since Catholic schools have literally crushed the neighborhood schools by recruiting the best talent, I refuse to be upset about this. If they were overage I would be upset. They were not.
5
Well why don't we have each state have open try outs to make sure the best are chosen. let's not have 12 year baseball players have any fun. Win at any cost . I think there is plenty of life awaiting them to learn this. It's a game with rules for everyone to follow.
9
I disagree -- this team was stacked with outstanding players literally "stolen" from surrounding leagues. It's not actually that different from stacking a team with more experienced, talented, older players. Competitors who didn't rig their teams were faced with an Aa-Star team drawn from a much bigger talent pool.
So no kids were over the age limit or anything they were just not from the right neighborhood? lol JRW you are the champs in my book! Seriously, who cares?
3
People who play by the rules care, which apparently does not include you.
23
They didn't live in Chicago ! Their victory was celebrated in other towns without any idea that they revealed impropriety !
2
The people who care are probably the kids whom they barely beat to win the title. Maybe if that team had cheated as well then JRW wouldn't even have won!
5
My guess is that Little League didn't WANT to know the truth. Inner city youths have been trending to basketball, then football. The number of African-Americans playing in the major leagues is near all-time lows, especially compared to those sports. It wasn't a coincidence that the two "feel good" stories to come out of the LL World Series were about urban teams, from Chicago and Philadelphia. A revival of interest in baseball in the central cities was a goal of MLB and what better ambassadors than fresh faced 12-year olds...and a cute girl !!
1
I'm old enough to have seen Jackie Robinson play at Ebbet's Field, an advantage of growing up in the New York area in a family of Dodger fans. Jackie played hard (just ask Enos Slaughter) but fair and he would be embarrassed and humiliated to have a team bearing his name cheat in order to win. I don't know if Rachel Robinson, Jackie's widow, authorized the use of his name for the team but, if she did, I hope she withdraws the authorization. An unfortunately effect of all this is that it gives ammunition to the racist element in our country. It would be fitting for the name of the team to be changed to something more appropriate for baseball on the South Side of Chicago: The Black Sox (no racial pun or reference intended).
5
The spirit of your comment is well-intended, I assume. HOWEVER, it would less likely to be misinterpreted and more precise if you clarified who did the "cheating": The team (as in "the young athletes") did NOT cheat. It was the team's "OFFICIALS" or handlers who cheated.
1
While the adults involved in this affair - and that includes parents as well as coaches - certainly deserve scorn, the kids are not innocent victims if they knew what was going on. When I was 10 years old (6th grade) - two years younger than most of these kids - my elementary school started a football team to play against other schools in town. Being the biggest sports nut in the school, I took it upon myself to convince enough classmates to join the team. But an 8th grade kid from the neighborhood found out about the team and decided he wanted to play. (The coach was not a teacher at the school, and thus didn't know that the kid was not a student there.) I objected, but the kid and my "teammates" insisted that he should play. I wasn't going to "rat out" the kid, but I wasn't going to cheat either. So I quit the team - simply walked away in the middle of practice. My point being that kids who are 12, even 13 y.o. in the case of some Little League all-stars, know when they are cheating and know that it is wrong.
10
The kids in this case were not the wrong age. They were from the wrong neighborhood. It's unlikely the kids would know the details of the neighborhood boundary issue.
2
Not true. Kids know the score. In competitive youth sports, from the earliest age, they know who has talent, who is special, and who just showed up on their team that came from another team or neighborhood. It may be too much to ask that they call out the cheat, but you have no idea how competitive youth sports operates if you think these were a bunch of Norman Rockwell neighborhood kids having fun on a ball field until wacko adults corrupted their game.
5
agree. These were 12 year olds, not 5 year olds. They definitely know what's going on, and I would guess, actively solicited out-of-bounds pals "who could play".
For the folks here who are saying anything along the lines of "they still won"...
Joshua Houston pitched the game against Mountain Ridge, and knocked in the tying run late in the game. He's from Dolton, well outside JWR's boundary. In fact, there's a whole other league in between Dolton and JWR's area. Ed Howard finished the game in relief. He's from Lansing, also no where near the correct area.
These kids (among others) simply should not have been on this team. They knew it, and everyone else did, too. That's cheating. This was an All-star team playing against over-matched opposition. That the games were even close is a credit to their opponents.
Joshua Houston pitched the game against Mountain Ridge, and knocked in the tying run late in the game. He's from Dolton, well outside JWR's boundary. In fact, there's a whole other league in between Dolton and JWR's area. Ed Howard finished the game in relief. He's from Lansing, also no where near the correct area.
These kids (among others) simply should not have been on this team. They knew it, and everyone else did, too. That's cheating. This was an All-star team playing against over-matched opposition. That the games were even close is a credit to their opponents.
44
Mountain Ridge was hardly "over-matched!" They had beaten JRW 13-2 earlier in the tournament and lost by only 2 runs in the "championship" game. They also beat the Philly team 8-1.
What a turn this cheating thing has taken. I loved baseball, played pretty well, and doctored my birth certificate to add a year so I could move UP to Babe Ruth League and play with the big guys. I suppose that still makes me a cheater, but boy did I gain some great experience playing up an age group.
2
Per the AP, the following is a quote from Jesse Jackson:
"Is this about boundaries or race?" Jackson asked.
Does Jackson play the race card every time a bell rings?
"Is this about boundaries or race?" Jackson asked.
Does Jackson play the race card every time a bell rings?
33
No, he doesn't. He doesn't shy away from it either like so many others do.
3
Sorry, he is playing the race card this time. Now I understand there is understandably a line of reasoning that when people of color play by the rules, they still often get shafted. So why bother to play by "the Man's" rules at all. So I can see how they might have felt justified bringing in players from out of their district and breaking the rules. Silver lining: they could go one day and work on Wall St. Or work for corporate polluters who break the law every day. So I feel a little like a hyocrite to say the team should lose their title for cheating on boundaries, while at the same time I buy products and use services of corporate cheaters whose cheating affects far larger numbers of peoplein much worse ways that Jackie Robinson West's cheating. Perhaps it's just the team officials and coaches who knew what they were doing who should get the axe and take their names off any of the trophies and honors. It was not the place for any of the players to threaten the coaches with going public about ringers playing on the team. The runner up manager was right to not want the title by default.
5
I read a longer version of his comments, and frankly, you're being kind to him. His statement was an utterly disgraceful attempt to justify cheating and blame white people for what some of his constituency did.
3
I, like a lot of Chicago area residents, watched the little league world series for the first time because of Jackie Robinson West. With the Cubs floundering in last place, this was the only baseball worth watching last summer. The games were extremely exciting, if not nail biting. When I heard news about the possibility that JRW would likely have their title stripped earlier this week, all I could think of about was the kids and how they were going to feel.
If little league rules were broken, then punishment is merited. But I am not going to point the finger at the kids. The decision to bend or break the rules was made by adults. It is too bad that the kids must suffer the most.
If little league rules were broken, then punishment is merited. But I am not going to point the finger at the kids. The decision to bend or break the rules was made by adults. It is too bad that the kids must suffer the most.
10
Why don't you feel bad for the kids on the other teams that played fairly but lost?
10
"All I wanted to do was go to Williamsport,” New Albany All-Star David Newbanks said Wednesday. “We played hard and we deserved to go. They took away the opportunity for us to go to Williamsport. That was the chance of a lifetime.”
- http://www.newsandtribune.com/cnhi_network/little-league-new-albany-chea...
...but nobody feels bad for those kids, only the cheaters.
- http://www.newsandtribune.com/cnhi_network/little-league-new-albany-chea...
...but nobody feels bad for those kids, only the cheaters.
1
Vacate titles of teams found to be cheating...repeatedly.
5
Our current culture lacks accountability across the board, starting at the top. If the leaders and wealthy can get away with it, and if success is defined by being wealthy, influential, and being able to get away with corrupt or unethical actions (from Presidents, Congress, Wall Street, on down), why would we expect anybody younger and lower down not to try to emulate such role models?
To stay within the realm of kids and baseball: what does one expect when Rudy Guiliani, the former law-and-order mayor of New York, gives the "Keys to the City" and honors 12 year-old Jeffrey Maier, for reaching out and interfering with play to effectively give the Yankees help in the American League playoffs in 1996?
Giuliani is, unfortunately, a prime role model for the common mantra, "Hey, he may be a crook, but he's our crook." For all we know Darold Butler, the Chicago team's manager, has a copy of the Time Magazine issue making Giuliani its Man of the Year and considers it a motivational inspiration on how to get ahead.
I coached Little League for a number of years, and as a result of the idiocies of some parents and some coaches, all I could do was to tell my guys they should always remember they were not out there to please any adults, including myself, but to have fun and, as a possible bonus, learn a little baseball and develope a sense of teamwork.
As we have seen with so many scholastic sports, the real perps are the adults trying to live out their own fantasies through kids.
To stay within the realm of kids and baseball: what does one expect when Rudy Guiliani, the former law-and-order mayor of New York, gives the "Keys to the City" and honors 12 year-old Jeffrey Maier, for reaching out and interfering with play to effectively give the Yankees help in the American League playoffs in 1996?
Giuliani is, unfortunately, a prime role model for the common mantra, "Hey, he may be a crook, but he's our crook." For all we know Darold Butler, the Chicago team's manager, has a copy of the Time Magazine issue making Giuliani its Man of the Year and considers it a motivational inspiration on how to get ahead.
I coached Little League for a number of years, and as a result of the idiocies of some parents and some coaches, all I could do was to tell my guys they should always remember they were not out there to please any adults, including myself, but to have fun and, as a possible bonus, learn a little baseball and develope a sense of teamwork.
As we have seen with so many scholastic sports, the real perps are the adults trying to live out their own fantasies through kids.
13
Retroactive stripping of titles is ridiculous. The time to catch this stuff is BEFORE the LLWS. Why doesn't Little League (i) check this sort of stuff out thoroughly before the LLWS and (ii) have the rule be that if you get cleared by Little League to play in the LLWS, no subsequent challenges are permitted?
9
JRW was on the front page of every paper in the country during their run, and the lead story on every newscast.
Do the math.
Do the math.
3
Father of 4---
Agree. The time to investigate a team is prior to play commencing. This team experienced winning the USA championship, and playing for the world title. The teams they beat experienced losing and heading home. Yhose positive and negative experiences are permanent.
The kids are not at fault--there should be a greater punsihement for the adult(s) that cheated, then simply being suspended from further LL participation. They should be exposed to civil suits and liability. If a cheater were to spend the next 10 years passing their income over to the families of the kids cheated, this sort of thing would stop very quickly.
Agree. The time to investigate a team is prior to play commencing. This team experienced winning the USA championship, and playing for the world title. The teams they beat experienced losing and heading home. Yhose positive and negative experiences are permanent.
The kids are not at fault--there should be a greater punsihement for the adult(s) that cheated, then simply being suspended from further LL participation. They should be exposed to civil suits and liability. If a cheater were to spend the next 10 years passing their income over to the families of the kids cheated, this sort of thing would stop very quickly.
2
The district and section volunteers responsible for residency verification prior to All-Stars looked the other way. Surprised it took so long to come to light.
Blame it on Belichick and Brady.
4
Is the Little League now going to investigate every team to see if it complied with, what seems to me, one of many strange rules in LL Baseball. Is every area of the same size and with the same population? I was under the impression that many of these teams are essentially all-star teams made up of kids drawn from different teams and areas within their jurisdictions. Maybe some of those white suburban kids weren't good enough to make the Chicago team, but I know that race didn't have anything to do with either the complaint or the decision.
1
It will be interesting to see if Obama offers a White House visit to the boys from Las Vegas, who were cheated out of that once-in-a-lifetime experience.
25
Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.
2
We need this kind of enforcement at the professional level. Vacate titles won by teams with rosters saturated with steroid users.
19
I agree - and how about the recent flaccid football winners of the "Super" Bowl ?
3
no surprise---chicago is corrupt to the core--everyone cheats, from government "officials" to little league coaches! just win!!
8
The whole little league witch hunt was orchestrated at the behest of a coach from an Evergreen Park IL team that the JRW team had pulverized earlier in the playoffs.
Sour grapes from a sore loser.
He "revealed" what each and every team in LL baseball has done and will continue to do.
A cryin' shame for the youngsters that are victims here - not bad guys at all.
Sour grapes from a sore loser.
He "revealed" what each and every team in LL baseball has done and will continue to do.
A cryin' shame for the youngsters that are victims here - not bad guys at all.
7
Nope. First, you're wrong that all teams do this. Maybe in Chicago, but I wouldn't know about that. More important, your moral reasoning is bad. The motivation of the whistleblower is irrelevant. What matters is whether a bunch of grown-ups lied so they could have the pleasure of watching their bunch of ringers humiliate other 12-year-olds. That's against Little League rules, and its just wrong. Finally, your choice of metaphor is interesting: no one likes witch hunts, but when they actually find a witch, you have to do something about it.
14
Thanks for treating readers to the most ridiculous whine possible under the circumstances. The adults cheated. They got caught. Terrible for the kids, but LL has to respond to cheating.
11
Found similar stretching on the city champion pee wee football team in Virginia Beach back in the 1970s. Older kids allowed to play. Other teams noticed because they seemed far more mature--and huge. The parents didn't get it, and instead were enraged at me for revealing it. Doubt it they or their kids ever learned the lesson. Remember, it's not a sport if you don't play by the rules.
9
I am HAPPY that they were punished. Apparently, the driving force behind their disqualification was an opposing coach, whose team Jackie Robinson West beat 43-2 in the playoffs. If that was the score, they deserve to be disqualified for that alone.
9
You would think the parents would be horrified and ashamed, but apparently not. They must have been in on it. This kind of thing is becoming so common that I can hardly wonder why such people see nothing wrong with our politics.
11
That makes no sense
I think, in addition to the sanctions already announced, it would be appropriate to stop this league from using Jackie Robinson's name. I believe he's spinning in his grave at the moment, and I can't imagine his family is too pleased to have his name being sullied by this lot.
15
Another day, more cheaters. Just like political corruption. Wonder why we are cynical?
8
Back in the day when I was playing in the Pelham Bay Little League, I ratted on a neighborhood bully who was playing at a level where he was way over the age limit. He got tossed and I got my butt kicked a few times. The price for being a whistleblower, I suppose. More interesting was that the team the bully played for was managed by one of the league officials. You have to think that these kinds of shenanigans are widespread and rarely called out.
19
Chicago? I'm shocked!
@chris: There are rules in public sports K-12 that there are geographic boundaries for players. One of the gripes that many of us have is that private schools get to select people from all over, even state lines to play sports against public schools that are bound with restrictive rules. Why do you think that the Catholic Schools in the U.S. have such fantastic basketball teams? They have no boundaries. Texas, to my knowledge is the ONLY state that forbids private and public schools from playing each other in the same league and the state even has separate state tournaments. To corrupt Little League baseball is the height of being corrupt. Great lessons by these adults for youth. Good role models on honesty. Sheesh!
@chris: There are rules in public sports K-12 that there are geographic boundaries for players. One of the gripes that many of us have is that private schools get to select people from all over, even state lines to play sports against public schools that are bound with restrictive rules. Why do you think that the Catholic Schools in the U.S. have such fantastic basketball teams? They have no boundaries. Texas, to my knowledge is the ONLY state that forbids private and public schools from playing each other in the same league and the state even has separate state tournaments. To corrupt Little League baseball is the height of being corrupt. Great lessons by these adults for youth. Good role models on honesty. Sheesh!
15
Youth sports are supposed to teach sportsmanship, fair play, and following rules. A game is nothing but rules, mostly arbitrary ones. Sport and art are alike in that at their best, they are pure - they have no purpose but themselves. There is no activity more pointless than cheating at a game - not for nothing is do we use 'playing tennis without a net' as a metaphor for pointlessness.
I can understand adult athletes cheating because money is at stake. And all the Jackie Robinson West manager did was what his professional counterparts do - assemble the best possible team from whatever players he can get. Pro players, and entire teams, do change geographic allegiance at the drop of a dollar - they're all mercenaries.
But I can't imagine anything more pointless than cheating at Little League! Is there a betting ring going on, or some similar motivation left out of this article? Or is it totally gratuitous, a penny-ante version of Iago's 'motiveless malignity'? I feel sorry for the kids - I'd be very surprised if any of the ringers were aware they were being exploited in this way.
I can understand adult athletes cheating because money is at stake. And all the Jackie Robinson West manager did was what his professional counterparts do - assemble the best possible team from whatever players he can get. Pro players, and entire teams, do change geographic allegiance at the drop of a dollar - they're all mercenaries.
But I can't imagine anything more pointless than cheating at Little League! Is there a betting ring going on, or some similar motivation left out of this article? Or is it totally gratuitous, a penny-ante version of Iago's 'motiveless malignity'? I feel sorry for the kids - I'd be very surprised if any of the ringers were aware they were being exploited in this way.
5
I agree with you, but remember that the JRW League "won" about $150,000 in donations as a result of cheating ( not to mention a parade, trips to the World Series and the White House, and more ). No word yet on whether they'll be returning that money to the donors they swindled.
6
Agree until the last sentence. Every 12-year-old Little Leaguer I've ever known or coached has understood the rule and its purpose. Darn right the kids knew what was going on, even if they were not making the decisions. And now they have to live with humiliation and guilt of the grown-ups' decisions. That's the tragedy.
7
It's hard to imagine that this is the first time a team reached beyond its catchment area to recruit good players. How come it's the inner city kids who are punished for what might well be a popular flouting of the LLI rules? Smells like selective enforcement of the rules.
6
I wondered this myself.
Why did Little League International even look into this? Did someone complain? Is it standard policy to do this kind of after-the-fact checking months after the tournament?
Why did Little League International even look into this? Did someone complain? Is it standard policy to do this kind of after-the-fact checking months after the tournament?
2
Did you read the article? This isn't the first time this has happened and other LL teams were disqualified in the past for the same thing.
6
JM,
You will find many answers in this article...
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20141223/morgan-park/jackie-robinson-west...
Everyone knew that JRW was cheating, and in fact, that they have done so for years. They finally got their payoff this year, which eventually forced Little League to act.
You will find many answers in this article...
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20141223/morgan-park/jackie-robinson-west...
Everyone knew that JRW was cheating, and in fact, that they have done so for years. They finally got their payoff this year, which eventually forced Little League to act.
1
I coached Little League baseball for over 10 years, including district teams that competed in Little League tournament play. I would find it surprising to learn that the deceit that went on here did not also involve the JRW president, who must certify the accuracy of the team affidavit and specifically the eligibility of the rostered players, as well as its board.
Beyond this, there is little doubt in my mind that several if not all of the players knew that "ringers" were being added to the team. In most leagues the kids play together from age 5 on up, culminating in the 12 year old team made up of kids 12 and in some cases 13 years old. Unless there was extraordinary turnover in the league's player registration, the kids likely knew what others were "parachuting" into the district just to be named to the tournament team. Every kid knows who the best players are in the league in any given year.
I have seen an instance of a parent renting an apartment during the Little League regular season in a target district to qualify for for tournament play only to move back to their permanent residence (where the rest of the family stayed) once their child's team was eliminated from tournament play. This conduct is appalling.
Aside from the Las Vegas kids, who were wrongly denied a chance to compete fairly for the U.S. and International championships, the kids who legitimately played for JRW, who were cut from the team in favor of the ringers, were also wronged here.
Beyond this, there is little doubt in my mind that several if not all of the players knew that "ringers" were being added to the team. In most leagues the kids play together from age 5 on up, culminating in the 12 year old team made up of kids 12 and in some cases 13 years old. Unless there was extraordinary turnover in the league's player registration, the kids likely knew what others were "parachuting" into the district just to be named to the tournament team. Every kid knows who the best players are in the league in any given year.
I have seen an instance of a parent renting an apartment during the Little League regular season in a target district to qualify for for tournament play only to move back to their permanent residence (where the rest of the family stayed) once their child's team was eliminated from tournament play. This conduct is appalling.
Aside from the Las Vegas kids, who were wrongly denied a chance to compete fairly for the U.S. and International championships, the kids who legitimately played for JRW, who were cut from the team in favor of the ringers, were also wronged here.
51
We used to have parent volunteer scorekeepers/timers cheat by changing the scores to benefit their own son's middle school team, then become angry when they were caught. Once, a parent threatened to slug my husband, who was coaching. He was the one parent who told the kids to have fun. Winning was secondary. Guess what? Those kids won their championship, having fun, playing fairly.
1
Thanks for pointing out that the ringers took the place of other kids from the league, who then didn't get to participate in the LL playoffs.
I hate seeing this level of cheating. The LL World Series has come to display a pretty decent sense of sportsmanship among the teams and players, and this has to hurt the good feeling for the sport that sportsmanship has engendered.
I hate seeing this level of cheating. The LL World Series has come to display a pretty decent sense of sportsmanship among the teams and players, and this has to hurt the good feeling for the sport that sportsmanship has engendered.
3
I guess I would just like to note that whether or not the kids knew what they were doing was wrong is pretty uncertain in this case. First of all, they might not have known that the other players were being added to their rosters illegally. Secondly, there is fair amount of movement that occurs in and out of city neighborhoods (I don't know the statistics for the JRW district in particular), so it is quite possible that there were changes to the neighborhood's teams on a yearly basis. There isn't a super high rate of home ownership within Chicago city proper, and certainly not in the less privileged south side neighborhoods (where all of these kids, even the "ringers" came from). Also, as someone who lives on the south side of Chicago, I can tell you that the neighborhoods here are quite different from those other places. For example, not all kids in a neighborhood will go to the same schools, as parents scramble to get their kids into higher-performing public schools across the city. I am friends with two families with high school-age kids in my neighborhood - two kids per family. All four of these high schoolers attend four different public high schools, none of which are in our neighborhood. They also attended four different middle schools. Two of them play sports for their schools, which they do not live close to at all. The idea of "community" as it exists in other places is simply not the same here. There is certainly community, but it involves a lot of movement.
2
It's tough being a kid when adults get in the way.
13
This is just sad. These kids played their hearts out through gangs, poverty and one team member becoming homeless during the season, but they played and beat all the other teams. That includes the almost six footers on the Vega team. The firs two time the league said nothing was wrong, but Vegas and the suburban continue to whine, and so it goes. One coach said the kids were the equivalent to the lies told by Lance Armstrong, what adult says things like that to kids?
The far south side of Chicago is not an affluent area and these kids played through a lot of adversity and I still congratulate them, they played these teams and they won.
The far south side of Chicago is not an affluent area and these kids played through a lot of adversity and I still congratulate them, they played these teams and they won.
6
No, Little League disgracefully tried to cover up the fact that JRW had submitted faked boundary maps that were not agreed to by the other teams. Once the proof came out, they were forced to act. For a while they said the maps were confidential. This was a failed coverup.
9
The article says some of these kids living outside the boundaries are from the suburbs!
5
I suspects the players are not as innocent and clueless about what was happening.
33
You're right, Donnie. We still can't blame them, because they're kids, and in the end the adults made the decisions. But my kids play Little League, and they understand exactly what the residency rule is, and what sort of behavior it is meant to prevent. If I told them that this season they're playing on a hot team with a bunch of studs 25 miles away, they would know it was wrong, and they would know what Dad was up to. And that, my friends, is the real tragedy: some or most of these kids definitely knew what was going on, and now they have to live with knowing they were part of a lie, and the humiliation of being caught publicly.
7
Adam,
I'm not sure that's even the worst part. The worst part is that those kids have adults ( like some here ) telling them that "they still won" and "no one can take that away from you" and other lies which only serve to teach kids that cheating is the right choice. The adults involved aren't humiliated or ashamed, and as a result, the kids won't learn that they should be.
I'm not sure that's even the worst part. The worst part is that those kids have adults ( like some here ) telling them that "they still won" and "no one can take that away from you" and other lies which only serve to teach kids that cheating is the right choice. The adults involved aren't humiliated or ashamed, and as a result, the kids won't learn that they should be.
3
Kids being the key word. Adults did this.
This demonstrates that those who always describe children's team sports team sports as "character building" are overstating their case, unless of course they include bad character as part of the construction. More accurately, the players learn that winning is all that matters and, if you're going to cheat, don't get caught.
6
3
Go after and strip the title from kids from the Southside of Chicago who just happen to play for the love of the game as well as be involved in limited positive activities in a sea of urban violence; how noble!
But let's see what action well be taken against the Super Bowl Champions, New England Patriots for deflating footballs. I can see the headlines now, "Because the score was 45-7, the NFL decided that the deflated balls did not contribute to the outcome and therefore the Patriots will remain champions."
But let's see what action well be taken against the Super Bowl Champions, New England Patriots for deflating footballs. I can see the headlines now, "Because the score was 45-7, the NFL decided that the deflated balls did not contribute to the outcome and therefore the Patriots will remain champions."
4
Turns out there was only one football deflated and it was the one the opposing team held onto.
3
Good lord thank you for this response!!!! It isnt right what happened but remove the adults from the equation and you have .... Kids playing. How nice a concept. Play. Little league world series is rediculous set up by districts anyway. That should be state all stars- any hope of " district style" rules and sportsmanship go out the window anyway at that level.
but, ... the patriots were allowed to keep their AFC title?
maybe we should just make sure there are enough sandlots for kids to play on and leave them alone! do they really need our adult leagues and rules that are intended, primarily, to make someone else money?
maybe we should just make sure there are enough sandlots for kids to play on and leave them alone! do they really need our adult leagues and rules that are intended, primarily, to make someone else money?
4
having coached and ran a little league in the Bronx for 30 years, it disheartens me that so many people are looking at this story from the wrong perspective. Too often we hear a flash-word, in this case: cheating, and the negativity of the internet is unleashed full throttle. The fact is, that the only infraction that Jackie Robinson committed was using kids who lived outside their arbitrarily assigned boundary.
The bigger story that is missed, is that little league baseball in the inner city has hit an all time decline in its enrollment, little leagues are folding up or having to join up with other little leagues just to stay afloat.
There are many reasons for this alarming trend, including the break down of the inner city family, kids thinking the game is dull, the rise of a video game culture, the time element involved, and many others beside.
The story of Jackie Robinson LL was a feel good story, and most aspects of that story still are true: poor kids from the inner city working hard, giving everything they had to make it to the LLWS and then win the American championship. You can strip them of their banner, but you can't repudiate the hard work involved. The vagaries of the Boundary rules create a unfair system that puts inner city LLs at a disadvantage to suburban leagues. Sometimes a rule is silly or simply not fair in light of scrutiny. we need a rule, yes, but one that's fair to everyone and not blind to the problems faced in the inner cities.
The bigger story that is missed, is that little league baseball in the inner city has hit an all time decline in its enrollment, little leagues are folding up or having to join up with other little leagues just to stay afloat.
There are many reasons for this alarming trend, including the break down of the inner city family, kids thinking the game is dull, the rise of a video game culture, the time element involved, and many others beside.
The story of Jackie Robinson LL was a feel good story, and most aspects of that story still are true: poor kids from the inner city working hard, giving everything they had to make it to the LLWS and then win the American championship. You can strip them of their banner, but you can't repudiate the hard work involved. The vagaries of the Boundary rules create a unfair system that puts inner city LLs at a disadvantage to suburban leagues. Sometimes a rule is silly or simply not fair in light of scrutiny. we need a rule, yes, but one that's fair to everyone and not blind to the problems faced in the inner cities.
6
Here's one for you A999! The territory of the Little League of which the fabulous Ms. Mo'Ne Davis was a part in Philadelphia is huge. It covers a significant portion of the City.
You can look it up.
The size is driven - not by an attempt to flout the rules - but because baseball is so unpopular there - as opposed to basketball, soccer and football - that they need a league with a large area in order to have a meaningful house league. As I understand it, if baseball becomes more popular the league will split into 2 or 3 leagues, as necessary.
You can look it up.
The size is driven - not by an attempt to flout the rules - but because baseball is so unpopular there - as opposed to basketball, soccer and football - that they need a league with a large area in order to have a meaningful house league. As I understand it, if baseball becomes more popular the league will split into 2 or 3 leagues, as necessary.
4
Sorry, you are wrong. All the teams agreed on boundaries the year before. JRW submitted falsified maps claiming territory that was not their, and that was not agreed to by other teams. Then Little League tried to cover it up. This is not some little mistake.
4
Cheating in Chicago. What next? a Catholic pope?
10
These kids should hire a good lawyer and try to obtain a share of the TV revenue they generated for ESPN.
4
Other teams should sue this team and get the revenues instead.
3
Not a surprise, just sad that the kids have to pay. In a world where lying, stealing and cheating are more often rewarded than punished, where accountability is reserved only for the poor and minorities, we've got a lot of nerve intervening in any other country's affairs anywhere else on the globe.
1
Another example of out-of-control, adult-driven, win-at-all-costs "youth sports". Sad example and let down for the kids involved. . . .
4
John Wooden's quote was never more true: "Sports doesn't build character. Sports reveals character."
33
Lol, is there anyone that DIDN'T see this coming? We didn't watch or read a minute of it. Little League, despite it's lofty mission statements, has been a fraud for 25 years. Obviously, not every participant. But cheating in every league, every level, every city, every season and every tournament. From the admin, to the coaches to the parents. And don't absolve the kids as mere victims---a great many know exactly what's going on. Win at all costs. And I'm not even talking @ the occasional bleachers-emptying, on-field brawls that do occur. LL only provides lessons in despicable behavior. I have no use for an organization that only provides the lesson to my kids of "...well, sorry son, you lost to a team that cheated, but that's life..."
1
Does urban youth = Afro-American youth? Don't think so.
1
?Why do adults and parents have to mess with Little League?
So the NFL's unstated policy of deflate-fair-play has in fact seeped down into the minors' majors? And we were told trickle-down doesn't work. Really too bad for the kids, and my heart goes out to them.
1
What does one expect when Rudy Guiliani, the former mayor of New York, Presidential aspirant, and Time Magazine's Man of the Year, gives the "Keys to the City" to a kid, Jeffrey Maier, for reaching out and interfering with the American League playoff game to the Yankees advantage in 1996?
Law-and-order Rudy is, unfortunately, a prime role model for the common mantra, "Hey, he may be a crook, but he's our crook." For all we know Darold Butler, the Chicago team's manager, has an altar to Giuliani in his home and voted for him for God.
I coached Little League for a number of years, and as a result of the idiocies of some parents and some coaches, all I could do was to tell my guys they should always remember they were not out there to please any adults, including myself, but to have fun and, as a possible bonus, learn a little baseball and develope a sense of teamwork.
Law-and-order Rudy is, unfortunately, a prime role model for the common mantra, "Hey, he may be a crook, but he's our crook." For all we know Darold Butler, the Chicago team's manager, has an altar to Giuliani in his home and voted for him for God.
I coached Little League for a number of years, and as a result of the idiocies of some parents and some coaches, all I could do was to tell my guys they should always remember they were not out there to please any adults, including myself, but to have fun and, as a possible bonus, learn a little baseball and develope a sense of teamwork.
3
Brian Williams, Little League...Who can you believe anymore, what can you believe anymore. The Little League! What's left to corrupt.
2
Exhibit gazillion, your honor, that the worst thing about youth sports is adults.
4
This league is not worthy of the "Jackie Robinson" name. It should be required to drop the name and replace it with "Eddie Chicotte" - appropriately a cheater and a Chicago Major League baseball player.
Then, the league should send a formal written apology to The White House, which feted the fraudulent victory.
Since each Little League team roster is certified under oath by the League president attesting to the age and residence of each child, someone committed perjury. He/she should be prosecuted.
Then, the league should send a formal written apology to The White House, which feted the fraudulent victory.
Since each Little League team roster is certified under oath by the League president attesting to the age and residence of each child, someone committed perjury. He/she should be prosecuted.
6
The kids will know and remember who won the games...
1
Lance Armstrong remembers winning too. Lots of Olympians have won medals only to have them taken away..I'm sure they remember winning too.
Those you mentioned cheated on their on volition. I doubt strongly that the kids did.
False analogies...
False analogies...
Liars and cheaters? Perhaps when these kids grow up they can find jobs on Wall Street and in banking.
5
Or in politics...
3
Or in journalism (like Brian Williams).
1
This kind of thing goes on all over in high school football. Players are given falsified addresses to put them in district. It is with knowledge of the parents and often at the behest and certainly with the knowledge of the coaches and other school officials. But why not? It is all part of the preparation for professional sports. Can't start teaching at too young an age.
2
This is heartbreaking. Can you imagine the sense of loss those children felt to have their title taken from them? They must be devastated. The adults that perpetrated this should be shamed to the point of wanting to hide in a cave for ten years.
This isn't just about sportsmanship or playing fair. It's about hurting kids. Their world just collapsed.
This isn't just about sportsmanship or playing fair. It's about hurting kids. Their world just collapsed.
6
Bruce,
if you had to cheat to win, you didn't win. You can kid yourself and pretend that you won, but you did not. It wasn't "their" title, their organization ( not necessarily the kids ) stole it.
if you had to cheat to win, you didn't win. You can kid yourself and pretend that you won, but you did not. It wasn't "their" title, their organization ( not necessarily the kids ) stole it.
6
What was the possibility of one or more of the players knowing that there were ringers on the team but said nothing? Just saying.
3
Who really cares what the kids thought? They were helpless in this "game" perpetuated by their elders. And now, willing participants or not, they are crushed.
In fact, I think it quite likely some did know. It's not like the boundaries were just nudged over a block or two.
In fact, I think it quite likely some did know. It's not like the boundaries were just nudged over a block or two.
1
It depends on the facts. If the the out-of-district kids didn't play in the JRLL "house" league but were brought in for the All-Star, or tournament, team, then chances are that some or all knew.
3
That adults continue to cheat and deceive in all things sports both on and off the field should surprise no one. What a heartbreaking life lesson for these children to learn about those adults they are taught to respect and honor.
5
This is sad. The boundaries issue is a big problem for urban little leagues and is part of the reason for the decline of baseball in urban areas. Little League for many years very stubbornly resisted addressing the problem and many leagues my son's in Phoenix had to work within boundaries that were drawn up in the 1950s, and were completely outdated because of demographic changes. Only very lately has Little League started to address the problem. In the meantime, a whole new suburban world of club baseball has come along and replaced Little League for many children, especially those whose parents have the time and money (upwards of $2000 a year) to organize these little all star teams.
3
My son played little league several years ago. Every year there was one team that, even though the teams were supposed to be randomly selected, had the same group of athletically superior kids who also happened to be friends. What this article talks about, which is really a lack of integrity, respect, fair play, etc., is more prevalent than most of us want to believe.
5
Different teams. You are talking about the house league teams where each team should have a fairly equal number of good, mediocre and poor players. The fact that one team was stacked was inappropriate. Parents can be awful. See below.
The team in Chicago was an All-Star team assembled for the express purpose of having the very best players for tournament play. Problem is, they went out of district.
Some years ago, I ran a league and inherited some out-of-district kids from my predecessor. When I advised the parents of those kids that their children could not play in my league, some of the parents sued me - even though (1) I first brought the matter to Little League headquarters in PA in an attempt to accommodate the children (who had done nothing wrong) and (2) failing that attempt, found places for each impacted child in his appropriate district.
Notwithstanding those efforts, the parents sued me in federal court. They lost.
Still looking for reimbursement of my sizable deductible from those creeps.
The team in Chicago was an All-Star team assembled for the express purpose of having the very best players for tournament play. Problem is, they went out of district.
Some years ago, I ran a league and inherited some out-of-district kids from my predecessor. When I advised the parents of those kids that their children could not play in my league, some of the parents sued me - even though (1) I first brought the matter to Little League headquarters in PA in an attempt to accommodate the children (who had done nothing wrong) and (2) failing that attempt, found places for each impacted child in his appropriate district.
Notwithstanding those efforts, the parents sued me in federal court. They lost.
Still looking for reimbursement of my sizable deductible from those creeps.
32
Why do coaches and administrators think they can get away with cheating? Do they just assume their colleagues and opponents are stupid or what they do is known by so few people that no one will leak? The coaches and administrators should be banned for life from organized baseball.
2
As a former coach of young children I can tell you that there is nothing more satisfying than the crack of that bat meeting the ball for the very first time and knowing that you and a young person made that happen together.
While the team may need to be stripped of it's title, I hope the children get to keep their trophies. I also hope the coaches are stripped of their credentials and banned from organized sports. They are a disgrace- and the players are their victims.
While the team may need to be stripped of it's title, I hope the children get to keep their trophies. I also hope the coaches are stripped of their credentials and banned from organized sports. They are a disgrace- and the players are their victims.
3
Why should the kids keep their trophies when other teams that played fairly deserve them?
1
One has to question whether a predominately white team would have been scrutinized as Jackie Robison was?
Let us be certain that many coaches will do whatever they need to do to win. The real fact of the matter is they got caught.
America, really didn't embrace a little league all black team from Southside Chicago as national champs
Many times blacks in power or position think that they can operate like whites; they will definitely fall under much more scrutiny. This isn't to excuse their actions, it's to say that we can be certain white America gloats at this revelation.
Adam Clayton Powell Jr. was stripped of his seat in Congress ,unlawfully. Although the Supreme court restored him, his seat was lost to Charlie Rangel in the fray. One thing that was poignant, he being the most prodigious legislator at that time, flamboyant, and unapologetically black, committed the same actions as many of his colleagues. The difference? He was too black, too smart, and too productive for his fellow white democrats who initiated the investigation resulting in his unlawful removal from congress. The Supreme Court exonerated him. Nonetheless, he is remembered not as a titan of legislation, he is seen as a profligate who broke ethics rules. The same rules his accuser's violate at much higher rates.
Sadly Jackie Robinson coaches forgot, you can't do what everyone else does in a nation with a racial hierarchy. Viewing successful blacks as an "exception" to the rule or with incredulity...
Let us be certain that many coaches will do whatever they need to do to win. The real fact of the matter is they got caught.
America, really didn't embrace a little league all black team from Southside Chicago as national champs
Many times blacks in power or position think that they can operate like whites; they will definitely fall under much more scrutiny. This isn't to excuse their actions, it's to say that we can be certain white America gloats at this revelation.
Adam Clayton Powell Jr. was stripped of his seat in Congress ,unlawfully. Although the Supreme court restored him, his seat was lost to Charlie Rangel in the fray. One thing that was poignant, he being the most prodigious legislator at that time, flamboyant, and unapologetically black, committed the same actions as many of his colleagues. The difference? He was too black, too smart, and too productive for his fellow white democrats who initiated the investigation resulting in his unlawful removal from congress. The Supreme Court exonerated him. Nonetheless, he is remembered not as a titan of legislation, he is seen as a profligate who broke ethics rules. The same rules his accuser's violate at much higher rates.
Sadly Jackie Robinson coaches forgot, you can't do what everyone else does in a nation with a racial hierarchy. Viewing successful blacks as an "exception" to the rule or with incredulity...
2
They weren't from the Southside! That's the point. Half the team was from the south suburbs. Very little scrutiny was necessary, towns outside the league's boundary were having parties for their "hometown heroes".
The better question is, would a team without the feel-good story of JRW have been allowed to play ineligible kids as long? The answer is 'no'. Little League should be embarrassed, they intentionally let this charade go on because people loved the "inner-city kids" story, when they weren't even kids from the city at all.
The better question is, would a team without the feel-good story of JRW have been allowed to play ineligible kids as long? The answer is 'no'. Little League should be embarrassed, they intentionally let this charade go on because people loved the "inner-city kids" story, when they weren't even kids from the city at all.
9
Sorry Earl, I'm not buying it. Why? Because where I live action was taken against a predominately white high school for the same offenses way back in the 1980s. As a result we gave restrictions preventing relocated athletes from playing any varsity sport. Also, a local predominately white community college was stripped of its national titles in basketball 10 years ago for recruiting violations.
Occasionally predominately black teams get in trouble for this. A local pastor in the inner city area of Dallas, himself African American, stated that culture teaches corruption as the only path to a level playing field, in all endeavors, including politics. Just sayin
Occasionally predominately black teams get in trouble for this. A local pastor in the inner city area of Dallas, himself African American, stated that culture teaches corruption as the only path to a level playing field, in all endeavors, including politics. Just sayin
6
.
After the Harlem little league who made it to the World series was found to be using players who didn't live in their district, little league cracked down on the eligibility affidavit that all little leagues must carry with them into tournament play. Each player must bring three proofs of residence dated from February of that year, the president of the league must check each one, and then sign the eligibility affidavit, after this all the paperwork is brought to the district administrators who re-checks the same exact proofs of residence, with a map of the leagues boundaries, the district administrator then signs of on the affidavit.
This new arduous system, has forced many inner city teams to drop out of the tournament, as they simply either don't have the manpower to check all this extra paper work, collect it from parents who cant be bothered to bring it, or even field enough kids from their legitimate boundary to field a competitive team.
There is a big difference between inner city boundaries, which are very arbitrary, and boundaries for a small city, or suburban town, which are defined by geographical borders and are much larger.
Baseball is dying in the inner cities, as more and more black children think the sport is too dull, and don't want to play it. The absence of fathers also factors in. This doesn't condone cheating, but the rules are designed to hurt the very league who have to work the hardest to get kids to see how great a sport baseball is.
After the Harlem little league who made it to the World series was found to be using players who didn't live in their district, little league cracked down on the eligibility affidavit that all little leagues must carry with them into tournament play. Each player must bring three proofs of residence dated from February of that year, the president of the league must check each one, and then sign the eligibility affidavit, after this all the paperwork is brought to the district administrators who re-checks the same exact proofs of residence, with a map of the leagues boundaries, the district administrator then signs of on the affidavit.
This new arduous system, has forced many inner city teams to drop out of the tournament, as they simply either don't have the manpower to check all this extra paper work, collect it from parents who cant be bothered to bring it, or even field enough kids from their legitimate boundary to field a competitive team.
There is a big difference between inner city boundaries, which are very arbitrary, and boundaries for a small city, or suburban town, which are defined by geographical borders and are much larger.
Baseball is dying in the inner cities, as more and more black children think the sport is too dull, and don't want to play it. The absence of fathers also factors in. This doesn't condone cheating, but the rules are designed to hurt the very league who have to work the hardest to get kids to see how great a sport baseball is.
4
I understand your point, but JRW prides itself on its large participation rate -- 530 kids -- which is great. Apparently they haven't had trouble with residency requirements. But they literally stole players from Rosemont and other adjoining leagues.
1
Well, what do you know? At least one aspect of the pervasive corruption that is Chicago can no longer be claimed to have no victims. The kids who played their hearts out are stuck with a bunch of crooked adults.
33
I'm waiting to hear more details. Did someone's family move to the burbs recently? Was someone living with an aunt or just saying they were or is it hard to tell? Who tattled long after the season was over? Or did it just take Little League International what seems like nearly forever to reach this decision if the evidence was cut and dried? Urban young people often lead more complicated lives than the rules of Little League contemplate.
If there was an outright lie, was it at the team level or was it one family faking residence to get their child on the team? How many adults knew? I see that the article refers to ringers in the plural, so the one family scenario does seem unlikely.
If there was an outright lie, was it at the team level or was it one family faking residence to get their child on the team? How many adults knew? I see that the article refers to ringers in the plural, so the one family scenario does seem unlikely.
6
So true. Let's hope more details are published.
Let us hear why this 'team' was so scrutinized. Were they
the only ones supposedly breaking the rules?
The LL administrators should put this in context.
As always ,' the moving goal post' for AAs in so many walks of life.
Let us hear why this 'team' was so scrutinized. Were they
the only ones supposedly breaking the rules?
The LL administrators should put this in context.
As always ,' the moving goal post' for AAs in so many walks of life.
1
This article covers it pretty well.
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20141223/morgan-park/jackie-robinson-west...
Note that it was written months ago.
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20141223/morgan-park/jackie-robinson-west...
Note that it was written months ago.
3
It was the league officials submitting a faked boundary map to the International Little League. Deliberate.
So what exactly is the big deal? We have national baseball teams farming talent from latin america, and this team can't get some kids from one county over? I'm sure the league was all too happy to present the wholesome, all-white Mountain Ridge Little League with their title after spending countless hours finding technicalities to disqualify Jackie Robinson West.
10
To the extent it's a big deal, kids that are 13 before the LL season starts are supposed to play in a league that uses a full size field. They're assumed to be bigger, stronger and more skilled (and they usually are). Apparently nobody knows what the Chicago team did wrong, but using aged-out 13 or 14 year olds is the usual reason. It's a lot easier for bigger, more experienced kids to excel on the LL field than on a full sized one.
The idea is that Little League leagues are drawn from areas with not more than a given population, for fairness. If they recruit throughout the third largest city in the US and surrounding counties, there is an issue.
1
Not exactly from one County over; the LL in the metro are was apportioned into various districts and the Jackie Robinson West team was found to be playing with a number of players who were clearly residing in other districts.
1
My son played on a totally otherwise Black Little League team. He had a great time. However when it came time for the State playoffs we mysteriously lost about six players that were too old. I guess there was little opportunity to play baseball after age 12 in that area.
4
After the age of 12, one is not eligible for LL. They play Babe Ruth or Stallion. It's an age restriction. For good reason. Youth over 12 can play in Babe Ruth and other civic leagues. Once in h.s., they can play in high school baseball during the season and civic leagues during the summer. Same in basketball and soccer. I have a grandson that plays for a h.s. team and a civic soccer team (at different times of the year).
This wasn't just the coaches and LL district administrators, the parents had to know something wasn't quite right either. These kids were 12 or 13 years old, they had been playing LL baseball for 4 or 5 years. Then suddenly the boundaries change and they have to play in a different league?
Same thing goes for the coaches and administrators in the other leagues. Every league knows who their stars are; when they disappeared at the start of the season, why weren't there questions then?
I suspect this has been going on for a while and nobody noticed because the all star teams didn't advance far enough to make a splash.
Same thing goes for the coaches and administrators in the other leagues. Every league knows who their stars are; when they disappeared at the start of the season, why weren't there questions then?
I suspect this has been going on for a while and nobody noticed because the all star teams didn't advance far enough to make a splash.
9
Goes on ALL THE TIME! Especially in high school basketball and baseball. Also track. In h.s. basketball and football, all-stars disappear from public schools and play for private schools, mostly sectarian.
1
What ever happened to the slogan I heard before every sports game I ever played as a kid and still roll around in my head today: "Winners never cheat and cheaters never win."
15
The league should be embarrassed that it doesn't vet all these details before allowing a team to proceed to the finals and then win a championship. How can they possibly let the team go that far without at least checking where someone lives, how old they are, etc. Where is the integrity in an organization that consistently reacts to criticism by punishing the players and teams and takes no responsibility for how they ended up there?
88
I had these same thoughts; plus, why did it take LLI six months to come up with this action against Jackie Robinson West?
4
I wondered the same thing myself. I can understand the issue of possibly getting information in time from teams that travel from overseas(although, it doesn't seem to be a problem), however, once the local area qualifiers are established and if this stuff was such a concern on the part of the organizers, it would seem that due diligence on all of them could have been done long before they even played their first game in the tournament. It's not as if there are dozens of teams to deal with here, it doesn't make sense.
Given the nature of team sports in recent years, when I first read the headline, I thought for a moment(cynically), they were being suspended because of the use of PEDs! No matter who is to blame, once again, kids suffer because of the stupidity of the adults(organizers and coaches).
Given the nature of team sports in recent years, when I first read the headline, I thought for a moment(cynically), they were being suspended because of the use of PEDs! No matter who is to blame, once again, kids suffer because of the stupidity of the adults(organizers and coaches).
3
They made a ton of money off JRW's story. You figure out the rest. Basically everyone involved knew that this team was cheating, but the story was too juicy for Little League to resist.
2
The Little League apparently has more stringent rules and enforcement than any professional sport we have, and certainly more than our financial institutions. People who run things in Chicago are used to doing things this way so they're probably stunned that it didn't work this time.
No winners here, and the biggest losers are the kids. What a disappointment.
No winners here, and the biggest losers are the kids. What a disappointment.
29
If all they have to do is submit what school they attend that answers EVERYTHING! Welcome to chicago.....
This is so unfair to Mountain Ridge Little League and the other teams that could have won the championship. Becoming champion now does them little good.
25
They lost. ..it isn't if they were playing with kids that were older or on steroids. I wouldn't even want a hand me down win.
3
Life...they were playing with a cherry-picked team. The players were not literally on steroids but the team was on figurative steroids.
2
It's the adults who never learn the meaning of playing 'fair.' It's the children who suffer that consequences. Darold Butler and the other coaches have some explaining to do.
11
Maybe. The parents may have falsified (or just lied about) kids' ages to give their kids an advantage.
2
It's tough to falsify age. You need to show the original birth certificate. If you don't have one, you need to get one.
Rick, I am not sure this was about age. It was about where they lived and having kids on the team who lived outside the designated area. It is a lot easier to ginny up fake proof of residence, if needed. Ever hear of trying to pay in-state tuition when not really a state resident? Or using a relative's or friend's address to get your kid into an out-of-district school? There very well could have been complicity beyond the coaches, who knows? But the parents likely knew the kids were not all qualified geographically to be on the team.
1
I don't think that I'm over-speaking by saying that much of the Chicago area feels pain of humiliation of the disqualification to which they woke today. These kids really played their hearts out and showed many moments of sportsmanship and true spirit of playing the game that we so rarely see in adult games. I can only imagine how deeply the unfair actions of their coaches has cut into these youngsters spirits. To that I would tell them that yes, they are no longer U.S. champions. But I can only hope that the pain of this humiliation subsides and the deeper lessons of smart and fair team play stay with them for their lifetimes.
As an aside, this Little League World Series was really wonderful to watch. I've long strayed from being a baseball fan. MLB baseball is just not enjoyable to me any more for many reasons, paramount of which is that the players just seem to have little spirit. But watching these kids play game after game really rekindled my childhood love of the game as a neighborhood player and as a fan (of the Cubs, no less!). It was like being transported to an earlier time that refreshed my memories of what I found so great about baseball. All of the teams playing in that LLWS should realize that their play represented far more than win/lose to many spectators like me. It was like hearing a wonderful, but long lost song again. Thank You.
As an aside, this Little League World Series was really wonderful to watch. I've long strayed from being a baseball fan. MLB baseball is just not enjoyable to me any more for many reasons, paramount of which is that the players just seem to have little spirit. But watching these kids play game after game really rekindled my childhood love of the game as a neighborhood player and as a fan (of the Cubs, no less!). It was like being transported to an earlier time that refreshed my memories of what I found so great about baseball. All of the teams playing in that LLWS should realize that their play represented far more than win/lose to many spectators like me. It was like hearing a wonderful, but long lost song again. Thank You.
26
You might enjoy the college softball National Championship in the spring.
oh brother, did you also happen to notice the "joy" on the many faces of the opposing players, their coaches and parents who followed the rules but were being pummeled 30-2 by these cheats? wake-up.
5
In Chicago you are either a fan of MLB baseball or you are a Cubs fan. I am a White Sox fan and a fan of any team playing the Cubs except the St. Louis Cardinals.
But I have long enjoyed Little League and Middle School and High School sports for their relative purity.
Chicago already has the legacy of the Outfit including Capone, Ricca, Accardo and Giancana along with The Machine and Richard J. Daley to contend with.
Then there was the 1919 Black Sox World Series scandal that fixed and jinxed sports teams in this town.
This is too sad and too typical of Chicago "short-cuts."
But I have long enjoyed Little League and Middle School and High School sports for their relative purity.
Chicago already has the legacy of the Outfit including Capone, Ricca, Accardo and Giancana along with The Machine and Richard J. Daley to contend with.
Then there was the 1919 Black Sox World Series scandal that fixed and jinxed sports teams in this town.
This is too sad and too typical of Chicago "short-cuts."
1
When Brian Williams was coach, this sort of thing just didn't happen!
16
In an era when the nation's most prominent newsman lies and is not fired, when a championship football team's cheating is greeted by snickers and jokes, when athletes are caught taking PEDs multiple times and are still allowed to play, when athletes are captured on video beating women and are not immediately banned, is it surprising that this would happen? My guess is, the kids didn't think that anything was wrong, and why should they?
43
If you're suggesting that the kids consider themselves as part of a larger system of deceit and as such didn't think anything was wrong then why cherry pick the most high-profile cases to prove your point? Kids learn more at home than they ever will from Brian Williams, A-Rod and the rest. I guarantee you that those kids don't even know who Brian Williams is.
6
Right on all counts, except your comment on the championship football team. It's inappropriate to label that cheating until proven, if you refer to New England. Google "Ian Rappaort deflategate". Jerry Rice, (the other Rice on the other coast) on the other hand and to your point, admitted to cheating (stik-um) and is getting a pass in the press and public opinion.
"My guess is, the kids didn't think that anything was wrong, and why should they?"
If they were white, would you blame the kids or the parents?
If they were white, would you blame the kids or the parents?
The kids won the championship, ban the adults and the organization, but taking the title from the kids?
25
But, their team cheated. Why should they be rewarded for being on a team that won by cheating?
28
They won by fraud. Despite it being committed by the adults, they cannot be allowed to keep the championship as it would send a terrible message.
Their young hearts will be broken but the parents can use this to teach them about making smart choices when they get older.
They went to the White House & met the President - that's an experience that can't be taken away.
Their young hearts will be broken but the parents can use this to teach them about making smart choices when they get older.
They went to the White House & met the President - that's an experience that can't be taken away.
47
Not only will they learn about making smart choices, I'm betting their parents will be teaching them the finer points of class action lawsuits. In 3...2...1!
3
I can still remember my disappointment when I learned at a very young age that pretty much each and every one of the New York Yankees were from somewhere else. As a resident of NY state I felt let down. All that time I was rooting for them it had all been a sham, lol... The rules are the rules, so sadly being from the suburbs isn't good enough for the Little League. If all the Yankees had been from New York, I wouldn't have cared if some were from the suburbs, like me!
6
This has absolutely nothing to do with "being from the suburbs" . . . The reasons for these rules are to prevent leagues from assembling powerhouse teams by cherry-picking players from a wider population than is available to other leagues. To maintain fairness, this is all the more important for this age group, where a few kids always develop early and thus have a huge physical advantage over the players that develop at merely an average rate. It is the strict adherence to these rules that gives all LL leagues a fair chance at fielding a competitive team for the post-season tournaments that eventually lead to the LL World Series. Bring-in a couple of "ringers" from outside the league boundaries, and there is real harm to both the leagues that lost these players, and to other leagues they compete against that did in-fact assemble their rosters from eligible players only.
I was the Player Agent for our local LL (Capitola-Soquel in CA) a couple of years back, and before we were allowed to begin post-season play, every single player's paperwork had to be perfectly in order. I spent the better part of a week chasing-down parents and helping them find missing documents for proof of residency (as of the time the season started), birth certificates, etc, and then our league president had to sign affidavits affirming that all information was correct. No exceptions are allowed. LL International obviously takes this very, very seriously, as well they should.
I was the Player Agent for our local LL (Capitola-Soquel in CA) a couple of years back, and before we were allowed to begin post-season play, every single player's paperwork had to be perfectly in order. I spent the better part of a week chasing-down parents and helping them find missing documents for proof of residency (as of the time the season started), birth certificates, etc, and then our league president had to sign affidavits affirming that all information was correct. No exceptions are allowed. LL International obviously takes this very, very seriously, as well they should.
3
Always been that way in college and pro ball. Not the way in K-12 sports both pubic school and civic leages. It's also the way in sectarian and private schools that are non-sectarian, although not so much for the latter.
@Gideon Low -- but if LL International "takes this very, very seriously" -- why did the JRW team get into the playoffs at all, much less win the championship? Were documents falsified?
Given all you went through, doesn't It seem strange that 6 months later, the league suddenly realizes that there were kids on the team who didn't meet the residency requirements?
Given all you went through, doesn't It seem strange that 6 months later, the league suddenly realizes that there were kids on the team who didn't meet the residency requirements?
1
What a sorry shame, teaching our children that ethics is of no value. Shameful adults.
34
Embarrasing for Chicago and all the politicians who tried to ride on the coat tails of a youth sports team. It also shows whats wrong with youth sports where winning trumps anything else. By bringing in ringers several eligible players had to be cut from team because some parents want to stroke their own egos. Youth sports should develop young kids into better people instead the parents are turning it into a something they can brag about. Look at my little Johny he's on the travel team. Parents need to get their own lives instead living vicariously through their kids.
36
Im going to say something awful because i sgree the cheating was wrong, but sorry if your team lost 49 something to 3 to this team and your all of age, you werent going any farther in the tourney...... Sore losers who uncovered this werent winners- they were losers who, rightfully dethroned winners.
When I saw this article's heading, I almost had a heart attack! I thought for a frightening moment that the Dodgers, were being stripped of their 1955 Championship, because Amoros, actually let Yogi's shot get by him, and the Yankees, were to be awarded another crown! Whew!!!
3
Having been born and raised on the South Side of Chicago I am embarrassed and ashamed. The adults are the responsible culprits. But the kids are their primary victims. In a year where young Black males were profiled as the much maligned feared immoral, ignorant, lazy, violent and criminal other this was a balanced counterpoint.
65
With all the lying, cheating and stealing this sport is the perfect breeding ground for our future leaders - and the perfect expression of the American Ethos as it exists today.
20
I am still proud of these youngsters. They played with vim, vigor and class. Too bad their accomplishments have been tainted.
54
Proud of these kids even though they may have known they were cheating? Proud of them even though others who followed the rules and worked hard were denied the opportunity to win because this team cheated? Are you proud of the players who used steroids? What is too be proud about cheating?
27
You nailed it, JJ. Good call; apologies for the pun.
1
Un, you miss who really cheated here: the adults who cooked the books.
It's common in youth group sports for teams to change between Town ball, travel ball, AAU ball, Little League, Cal Ripken league (all 5 of which a 12 year old can play in.)
The kids played the game fair and square . . . it's the adults that gerrymandered the districts.
It's common in youth group sports for teams to change between Town ball, travel ball, AAU ball, Little League, Cal Ripken league (all 5 of which a 12 year old can play in.)
The kids played the game fair and square . . . it's the adults that gerrymandered the districts.
7
All of the officials and politicians here are attempting to stay positive about the children who played on the Jackie Robinson West Little League team while distancing themselves from the wrongdoings of the team's leadership. By praising the children as champions and good sports, they unconsciously reinforce the notion that winning is more important than playing by the rules. We can never know how far this team would have gotten with a locals-only lineup. This lesson will be learned by these children as well. You are only a champion if you play by the rules. The rest of it is political correctness and window dressing.
This sort of hypocrisy by the wider society may be well-intended, but it is more damaging than the original infractions by the team's leaders because it is culturally larger, and more pervasive. It indicates to the children what is really important after all, which is winning at all costs. This is what the children will take away from this episode, not that they should be less competitive, or learn to play by the rules. Why do these things if you will still get praise for your efforts anyway?