@Peter
What about the Ukrainian Army that is outmatched by modern Russian weapons, tanks and troops?
Ukraine wants to defend itself, but they need the right tools for the job that they do not have right now.
What about the Ukrainian Army that is outmatched by modern Russian weapons, tanks and troops?
Ukraine wants to defend itself, but they need the right tools for the job that they do not have right now.
8
Let us not forget that the US is responsible for what is going on in Ukraine, Afghanistan and Iraq and as usual they always accuse Russia of everything. What about the shelling of Libya by France and the US for no reason? If a country has an abusive military dictator, chances are the US put it there and besides the US or any other nation has no saying on how a government of other countries should run their affairs.
11
Will someone please take Neville Chamberlain's playbook away from the Obama administration and give them Winston Churchill's? [And the Ditherer-in-Chief continues doing what he does best: dither on!]
9
You would have no idea of a sound foreign policy if it fell on you.
I bet you screamed Shock & Awe like a schoolgirl.
I bet you screamed Shock & Awe like a schoolgirl.
4
The only "solution" is to divide up the money and the control, but no one wants to do that so war it is.
1
This article reads like a piece of propaganda from the military industrial complex for it is devoid of the history of American complicit involvement in Ukraine that devolves into the current sorry state, of the truth when ordinary Americans are asked again and again to have their taxes spent to stoke a cold war and an unwinnable hot war with Russia, of the truth when cold war tactics are used in the name of freedom and democracy, of the Russian stake in Ukraine, and of the real stake for Americans?
11
Unilateral US escalation would only play into Russian narrative. Better to have Europeans supply arms and/or money so Ukranians can purchase whatever they need.
2
Don't send arms to the Ukraine. The training required on sophisticated weapons would be daunting. Make a move as bold as Putin's; admit Ukraine into N.A.T.O. This scenario is exactly the reason N.A.T.O. exists; a sovereign nation has been invaded by a hostile force in a land grab ad needs to be defended. It may not bring Putin to the table, because he may be completely mad. But at least he defense of the Ukraine would be in capably trained hands and the cost to Russia would be high in a confrontation they could not win. You don't coddle a bully; you bloody his nose.
For England, France, Germany, Poland and other nations, Putin actually committed an act of war by invading. If a stable Europe depends on a stable Ukraine, let them join N.A.T.O. The message would be clear, Ukraine is part of Europe.
For England, France, Germany, Poland and other nations, Putin actually committed an act of war by invading. If a stable Europe depends on a stable Ukraine, let them join N.A.T.O. The message would be clear, Ukraine is part of Europe.
7
So is that what the rest of the world should do to the U.S. bloody its nose? What about when the bully got a gang of a whole bunch of friends like NATO? What is the country getting bullied Gona do now ? Russia is getting bullied not the other way around and the fact that you cannot see how it looks from the other side is sickening because peopl are dying right now in their hometowns in ukrianian just becuase the western leaning government would rather send tanks against protesters than negotiators
4
Kerry and Biden, are only there to throw a wrench into the Works. Peace will come much quicker if the US is ignored and excluded. I do have the distinct feeling that Ukraine and its future are none of our business.
9
Putin has already lost the new Cold War. Russian economic advisors have told him that Russia faces an immediate severe recession. It is only a matter of time until the Russian public discovers the disaster caused by the invasion of the Ukraine.
Did the Germans give up when it was obvious they had lost the war?
Continued aggression is the only path that temporarily continues Putin's time in office. Russia's people will discover soon enough that attacking the whole world is very bad for the economy.
Did the Germans give up when it was obvious they had lost the war?
Continued aggression is the only path that temporarily continues Putin's time in office. Russia's people will discover soon enough that attacking the whole world is very bad for the economy.
2
Attacking the whole world? During putins elected time in office the only places Russia has gone has been into small useless enclaves of ethnic Russians left from the soviet days that were part of bigger useless countries who try to kiss Americas as and giv no political voice to anyone who might criticize this as kissing and want better relations with their neighbor which stands as the only superpower in the region. If anything look at us if u wana say anyone's attacking the whole world or being a bully and we found out how bad it was for the economy tho nobody really said it out loud since we are attacking terrorism by taking out two secular nations in the Middle East and paving the way for real terrorists to take their place. At least Putin is smart enough to go into places right near his country and places where the population support him. And will actually fight instead of places Lik Iraq wher there army runs from terrorists in jeeps while they hAv tanks.
3
It is clear that the Globalists in Washington and London and Brussels do not want peace because they let their hand picked puppets in Kiev put pre-conditions on the upcoming talks that there would be no autonomous state in Donbass/Eastern Ukraine. Therefore the fighting and dying will continue until the legitimate aspirations of the Russian Ukrainians are recognized and safeguarded and Russia's vital need for a buffer state against her enemies in the West is satisfied. This is a pity because the "little people" are the ones suffering and their towns destroyed while those behind it, the "global elite", in the Western financial centers and capitals sit back and chortle and rub their hands in glee and greed at the prospect of first conquering and exploiting all the agricultural and mineral wealth of Ukraine and of course eventually moving on to the vast natural treasure house of Russia---which President Putin and the Russian military will never surrender. Now we hear that the Pentagon has squandered hundreds of thousands of thousands of taxpayers' dollars for phony experts to look at pictures of Putin and then declare he has "asperger's syndrome". What utter nonsense! What Putin has is deep pride and patriotism and is under enormous stress and strain to keep the New World Order from swallowing Russia as it has done most of the world. He is smart and definitely a "strong man". Besides if he was truly a "mental case" would it not behoove the US and EU to not get him stirred up?
11
So to help end this situation, we are going to ship arms to the Ukraine?
3
If I had family in Ukraine and my dislike for Russia was so great that poking them in the eye with a sharp stick was worth the possible consequences, then I'd take comfort in knowing that my direct assistance to fight with Ukraine forces, young and old, is one airline ticket away.
The headline says it all! US and Europe but not Russia or for that matter Ukraine are not working to end the fighting. Oh, the hubris!
4
The Ukrainian troops are without food, bullets or pay.
We need to provide supplies immediately. Talk, talk, talk
is not working. And we need to provide anti-tank weapons.
Satellite imagery shows that Russians have massed tank
forces large enough in side to blast through Kiev and then
on to Warsaw. Poland is a NATO ally. We need to have
a trip wire on the eastern border of Poland. Even one
brigade would be better than nothing. And we need tank-busting
aircraft, such as the old A10 so the Ukrainians can start breaking
up the Russian tank force poised for a march to the west. The time
for chit-chat is over. Do something, Mr, President. This is not the
time for playing golf.
We need to provide supplies immediately. Talk, talk, talk
is not working. And we need to provide anti-tank weapons.
Satellite imagery shows that Russians have massed tank
forces large enough in side to blast through Kiev and then
on to Warsaw. Poland is a NATO ally. We need to have
a trip wire on the eastern border of Poland. Even one
brigade would be better than nothing. And we need tank-busting
aircraft, such as the old A10 so the Ukrainians can start breaking
up the Russian tank force poised for a march to the west. The time
for chit-chat is over. Do something, Mr, President. This is not the
time for playing golf.
6
" . . . and then on to Warsaw." Do you have any understanding of military logistics?
I was a big cold warrior in the 1970s and '80s. The Russia of today is only a threat if we make it so. The idea that Russia today is powerful enough to threaten NATO is ludicrous.
I was a big cold warrior in the 1970s and '80s. The Russia of today is only a threat if we make it so. The idea that Russia today is powerful enough to threaten NATO is ludicrous.
3
"In these circumstances it is clear that the main element of any United States policy toward the Soviet Union must be that of a long-term, patient but firm and vigilant containment of Russian expansive tendencies. It is important to note, however, that such a policy has nothing to do with outward histrionics: with threats or blustering or superfluous gestures of outward "toughness." While the Kremlin is basically flexible in its reaction to political realities, it is by no means unamenable to considerations of prestige. Like almost any other government, it can be placed by tactless and threatening gestures in a position where it cannot afford to yield even though this might be dictated by its sense of realism. The Russian leaders are keen judges of human psychology, and as such they are highly conscious that loss of temper and of self-control is never a source of strength in political affairs. They are quick to exploit such evidences of weakness. For these reasons, it is a sine qua non of successful dealing with Russia that the foreign government in question should remain at all times cool and collected and that its demands on Russian policy should be put forward in such a manner as to leave the way open for a compliance not too detrimental to Russian prestige." George Kennan, "The X Article", July 1947
1
Want peace?
Begin by withdrawing US mercenary boots on the ground.
Begin by withdrawing US mercenary boots on the ground.
10
It is time to stop this bloodshed. By any peaceful means.
What about Merkel, she is rather strange politician. I'd like to say she is controversial and double-faced. She wants to kill two birds with one rock. She wants to be against Russia without arguing with their president. This is not a top secret, Germany is leading manufacture of equipment & machinery & technologies. Russia is huge key market. I have worked in timber industry for a long time, biofuels and export. I know, Russia is the biggest importer of their equipment. They buy much more German machinery than ours. Now, Key market is in stagnation. Merkel does not want to do harm to German economy.
What about Merkel, she is rather strange politician. I'd like to say she is controversial and double-faced. She wants to kill two birds with one rock. She wants to be against Russia without arguing with their president. This is not a top secret, Germany is leading manufacture of equipment & machinery & technologies. Russia is huge key market. I have worked in timber industry for a long time, biofuels and export. I know, Russia is the biggest importer of their equipment. They buy much more German machinery than ours. Now, Key market is in stagnation. Merkel does not want to do harm to German economy.
2
Mr. Kerry's role and intent seems more to see to it that not much is achieved.
Washington, resp. Mr. Obama has not yet reached all its goals:
- getting Russia totally encircled in a military pincer from Arctic to China;
- pushing Russia out of the EU energy market and securing US exports;
- getting Europe, through addition of TTIP, fully under control;
- breaking down MercoSUr (South America) and re-oppressing it;
- getting full control of the entire Mid-East through anti-ISIL caolition;
- and of Far East/Pacific through navy alliances from Oz to Japea.
A clever strategy, one has to concede - not bully like Bush junior with lies, invasions and lousy occupations, but foxy, Obama style, with lies, inciting local disputes (if needed, mass murder - see Maidan), supporting civil war, again: lies, and adding economic/oil war to wars kept going and directed far enough away as not to lead to another 9/11 (or Boston marathon), but causing maximal damage to any economic and/or political competitor.
Washington, resp. Mr. Obama has not yet reached all its goals:
- getting Russia totally encircled in a military pincer from Arctic to China;
- pushing Russia out of the EU energy market and securing US exports;
- getting Europe, through addition of TTIP, fully under control;
- breaking down MercoSUr (South America) and re-oppressing it;
- getting full control of the entire Mid-East through anti-ISIL caolition;
- and of Far East/Pacific through navy alliances from Oz to Japea.
A clever strategy, one has to concede - not bully like Bush junior with lies, invasions and lousy occupations, but foxy, Obama style, with lies, inciting local disputes (if needed, mass murder - see Maidan), supporting civil war, again: lies, and adding economic/oil war to wars kept going and directed far enough away as not to lead to another 9/11 (or Boston marathon), but causing maximal damage to any economic and/or political competitor.
5
Very frustrating to see Times' reporters using the truthful report from Semyon Semyonchenko, the head of the Donbass Battalion, about how the KGB/FSB is riddled through Ukraine's SBU, as an excuse not to give arms. It's not like the Ukrainian armed forces and the volunteer battalions are Syrian rebels fighting Assad. These are people you can find on Facebook and meet easily and track. The US could be dealing with the reliable battalion commanders themselves. And certainly with the Kiev Defense Ministry and Interior Ministry leadership which is under Poroshenko. It's possible to give drones (very much needed to increase accuracy and prevent civilian casualties) and anti-tank weapons to Kiev for their army without worrying that this somehow helps the Russians.
The Russians already helped themselves to Ukraine's territory, forcibly annexing Crimea, and barged into the bordering areas of Lugansk and Donetsk regions where the "People's Republics" set up after gunmen too over the main administrative buildings and blocked the roads. It's not like that situation could get worse because some FSB plant is blowing in coordinaes to Moscow. This already happens, and the point is to enable Kiev to *deter Russia better*. *Deterrence* is the only way to address the challenge of the Kremlin, and always has been.
The Russians already helped themselves to Ukraine's territory, forcibly annexing Crimea, and barged into the bordering areas of Lugansk and Donetsk regions where the "People's Republics" set up after gunmen too over the main administrative buildings and blocked the roads. It's not like that situation could get worse because some FSB plant is blowing in coordinaes to Moscow. This already happens, and the point is to enable Kiev to *deter Russia better*. *Deterrence* is the only way to address the challenge of the Kremlin, and always has been.
7
Relations with Russia are "strained" because U.S. is placing all the blame for the troubles since Maidan on Russia, as if the U.S. had no hand in it, which everyone knows is not true. Furthermore, if there are so many "infiltrators" maybe this says something about how deeply Ukraine is divided. Better not take sides in this because to do so will inflame the region. Face it, Russia is much closer and can have greater influence than the imaginary American Savior from 5000 miles away. Sure there are plenty of locals who remember the Soviet Union but most people in eastern and central Europe realize that there is no going back to those days, either in Russia or anywhere else. The new threat lies elsewhere.
10
It's just too late. We are sixty days away from spring. Putin needs a land bridge to Crimea. As soon as the weather permits he'll add enough forces to get the job done.
1
Time to add Russia to the US list of states that sponsor terrorism.
5
Really? Then why do we have confirmed sighting of American mercenaries on the ground in Ukraine, if we want to stop the war? Why do we find the USA in killing fields everywhere?
9
Putin's Eurasian concept seems to be a face saving way out. The eastern European countries could potentially have a win-win position if both Russia and the European Union competed in trade. Naturally, this would be a non-starter
unless both Europe and Russia agree that the 'Eurasian' countries are basically
demilitarized. In all probability this would not get off the ground--too bad.
unless both Europe and Russia agree that the 'Eurasian' countries are basically
demilitarized. In all probability this would not get off the ground--too bad.
1
The US and Europe's civilized nations can only do their best.
But haven't we already trod this path with Milosevic? Milosevic would agree to a cease-fire. During it he would reposition troops and take over more ground. He continued making and breaking agreements for five or more years.
At first a voice of reason Englishman, Lord Something-or-other would sit down with Milosevic in the name of peace. Milosevic violated every agreement. Finally, this lord realized that Milosevic saw the whole process as a game which he would win against the naive UN and he retired in disbelief and disillusion re such ungentlemanly conduct.
The US's Cyrus Vance went thru the same drawn-out process, leaving it in disgusted disbelief.
Putin is a land-grabber like Hitler, who first seized the Saarland, then Memeland, to Sudetenland (rescuing Germans) to annexing Austria, to seizing all Czechoslovakia. Only KGB Putin is more gangsterish or thuggish. He has leadership bona fides than Milosevic.
Sorry for all the ad hominem remarks, but Putin has apparently been long known as a brawling thug. What secure deal can one make with a thug?
On the other hand, a shoot-out promises more downside uncertainty.
But haven't we already trod this path with Milosevic? Milosevic would agree to a cease-fire. During it he would reposition troops and take over more ground. He continued making and breaking agreements for five or more years.
At first a voice of reason Englishman, Lord Something-or-other would sit down with Milosevic in the name of peace. Milosevic violated every agreement. Finally, this lord realized that Milosevic saw the whole process as a game which he would win against the naive UN and he retired in disbelief and disillusion re such ungentlemanly conduct.
The US's Cyrus Vance went thru the same drawn-out process, leaving it in disgusted disbelief.
Putin is a land-grabber like Hitler, who first seized the Saarland, then Memeland, to Sudetenland (rescuing Germans) to annexing Austria, to seizing all Czechoslovakia. Only KGB Putin is more gangsterish or thuggish. He has leadership bona fides than Milosevic.
Sorry for all the ad hominem remarks, but Putin has apparently been long known as a brawling thug. What secure deal can one make with a thug?
On the other hand, a shoot-out promises more downside uncertainty.
8
I really fear this escalation of the Cold War and I fear that it will continue to escalate. My guess is President Obama will not back down or compromise because he will face a backlash from the talking heads, the media and the Republican led hawks in Congress for doing so. I really hope cooler heads prevail but unless the EU comes through I have my doubts.
4
He's a lame duck; why would he care about a backlash?
It's difficult to think diplomacy will work when Russia has steadfastly maintained that it is not a party to the conflict.
As Secretary of State Kerry said, "We want a diplomatic resolution. But we cannot close our eyes to tanks that are crossing the border from Russia and coming into Ukraine. We can’t close our eyes to Russian fighters in unmarked uniforms crossing the border and leading individual companies of so-called separatists in battle.”
Kerry urged Russia to pull back weapons and troops to restore the tattered cease-fire. In addition, he called for a sealed border between rebel-held eastern Ukraine and Russia.
Russian diplomats said yesterday that they would view any U.S. move to arm the Ukrainians as a direct threat to their nation’s security.
Rebel leaders warned this week that they would mobilize vast forces against Ukrainian troops in the eastern part of the country. Russia, meanwhile, announced large-scale military exercises in recent days.
The sudden diplomatic effort — which will bring German Chancellor Angela Merkel to Moscow for the first time since relations with Russia turned south approximately one year ago — appeared to be a last-ditch measure to halt the conflict.
As Secretary of State Kerry said, "We want a diplomatic resolution. But we cannot close our eyes to tanks that are crossing the border from Russia and coming into Ukraine. We can’t close our eyes to Russian fighters in unmarked uniforms crossing the border and leading individual companies of so-called separatists in battle.”
Kerry urged Russia to pull back weapons and troops to restore the tattered cease-fire. In addition, he called for a sealed border between rebel-held eastern Ukraine and Russia.
Russian diplomats said yesterday that they would view any U.S. move to arm the Ukrainians as a direct threat to their nation’s security.
Rebel leaders warned this week that they would mobilize vast forces against Ukrainian troops in the eastern part of the country. Russia, meanwhile, announced large-scale military exercises in recent days.
The sudden diplomatic effort — which will bring German Chancellor Angela Merkel to Moscow for the first time since relations with Russia turned south approximately one year ago — appeared to be a last-ditch measure to halt the conflict.
3
There can be no diplomatic solution until Putin is honest about what the world has come to already know; Russia is the dominant party behind the Russia-backed separatists supplying troops, weapons, tanks, munitions and money.
There is no way to negotiate a peace when 1 of the 2 major conflicting parties cannot even bring itself to admit it is a warring party.
Merkel and Hollande are aware that Putin will likely continue his charade to their face, but the EU is right to still try and be sure to provide Russia with every opportunity to change course and understand continuing to create violence and instability in Ukraine will have growing consequences for Russia.
This will set the stage for the next step of discussions among the EU and their allies about how to counter Russia's actions in Ukraine which will definitely lead to an expansion of sanctions and it increasingly looks like the possibility of providing Ukraine with modern western defensive military hardware to aid in their defense of Ukraine.
There is no way to negotiate a peace when 1 of the 2 major conflicting parties cannot even bring itself to admit it is a warring party.
Merkel and Hollande are aware that Putin will likely continue his charade to their face, but the EU is right to still try and be sure to provide Russia with every opportunity to change course and understand continuing to create violence and instability in Ukraine will have growing consequences for Russia.
This will set the stage for the next step of discussions among the EU and their allies about how to counter Russia's actions in Ukraine which will definitely lead to an expansion of sanctions and it increasingly looks like the possibility of providing Ukraine with modern western defensive military hardware to aid in their defense of Ukraine.
4
I think Kerry is more or less sabotaging Hollande-Merkel peace initiatives. Washington´s aims in Ukraine are not the same as those of Germany and France. Washington is ready to fight Russia till the last Ukrainian. Europeans are seeking solution that brings stable economy. Europeans are not ready or willing to go to a military conflict with Russia. Obama administration seems to be ready, but only if it can use other people to do the dirty work.
7
@Marja Nikkila
What aims are different between the EU and US?
The US, EU, Canada, Australia, Japan and the rest of the free world seems to be quite united in the goal of getting Russia to get out of Ukraine and leave Ukraine be to reform and govern themselves.
What aims are different between the EU and US?
The US, EU, Canada, Australia, Japan and the rest of the free world seems to be quite united in the goal of getting Russia to get out of Ukraine and leave Ukraine be to reform and govern themselves.
1
Really. That characterization sounds like Western Europe for the last seventy years. Let's see how Angie and Fran (Merkel and Hollande) like the EU and a European NATO without the United States. Not going to be a very stable economy in NATO Europe if the US implements Article 13 and withdraws from the institution.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if the public could get an unadulterated and straightforward perspective of this issue, that will present accurate facts as to how this situation has gotten to this point and how it continues to unfold. There are - IN FACT - American "boots on the ground" in Eastern Ukraine. Be they “regular” or “contract” forces, they are undeniably there. There are U.S. weapons currently being used by Kiev directed forces; the public statements from the White House that supplying weapons to Kiev is being considered is one that should have been made BEFORE American forces and weapons actually hit the ground - at least 4 months ago. This convergence of gas price manipulation, bond and currency price manipulation along with instigation and manipulation of war policies in Kiev - all against the vital interests of our European "partners", will ultimately serve to drag down the very countries that are complicit with the State Department and White House in this attempt to crash the Russian state. Hopefully Mrs. Merkel will decide to begin to work in the best interest of her European AND Russian neighbors rather than her eavesdropping "friends" - thousands of miles away.
6
The 'Defense Shield' in Poland and Rumania initiated by Bush and refined by Obama was the perfect excuse for Putin to discard any cooperative agreements. Further, the activity of military ships in the Black Sea is tantamount to Russia patrolling the Gulf of Mexico and another cover for Putin to take over the Crimea for strategic purposes. The spirit of the Icelandic agreement has clearly been violated by NATO militarization in Eastern Europe i.e. Reagan's promise to Gorbachev. In short, with the Defense Shield, this is Deja' vu missiles in Turkey' and the pivotal beginning and consequence of the Ukrainian crisis with more havoc to come.
5
Frankly, we started this carnage by supporting a violent coup just 8 months ahead of elections.
Victoria Nuland hand picked the Kiev junta leadership and then like many times in the past - things got out of control. Extremists took over - pravy sektor - neo nazi organization is now in charge of Ukraine army and police and they are masters of life and death in Ukraine - al least of lives of those who think differently. At this moment we support in Ukraine everything completely opposite of American core values - freedom and self determination.
In the meantime, Joe Biden's son chairs Ukrainian main gas supply company, another Kerry's family circle member serves as vice president etc...
Now we also have a new enemy...Al Qaeda in the past now Russia etc...so why not ramp up the defense budget even more.
I am sick and tired of DC plutocrats who treat us as if we don't have any brain.
Victoria Nuland hand picked the Kiev junta leadership and then like many times in the past - things got out of control. Extremists took over - pravy sektor - neo nazi organization is now in charge of Ukraine army and police and they are masters of life and death in Ukraine - al least of lives of those who think differently. At this moment we support in Ukraine everything completely opposite of American core values - freedom and self determination.
In the meantime, Joe Biden's son chairs Ukrainian main gas supply company, another Kerry's family circle member serves as vice president etc...
Now we also have a new enemy...Al Qaeda in the past now Russia etc...so why not ramp up the defense budget even more.
I am sick and tired of DC plutocrats who treat us as if we don't have any brain.
7
Puerco, how much left in Vladimir's kitty today? Less than $400 billion? Less than $300 billion? Time is not on Czar Putin's side. If he manages not to fall off the deep end by May then he will be set up like a sitting duck.
Don't blame the DC plutocrats. Ask Putin and his posse to take a good look in the mirror. Brains are in very short supply in the Kremlin.
Don't blame the DC plutocrats. Ask Putin and his posse to take a good look in the mirror. Brains are in very short supply in the Kremlin.
1
The lack of trust, coordination, cohesion and cooperation between the US and our NATO allies is jaw-dropping and alarming. This conflict is in Europe's backyard and it should be up to them to broker a ceasefire and/or peace agreement. Instead of working with our European allies, we seem to be bullying them and undermining our relationships. This foreign policy bungling is almost unbelievable, and highly dangerous.
3
@BKB
To correct your misunderstandings, Europe is leading negotiations, Europe oversaw the Minsk Accord and NATO has not been this united since the Cold War.
How do you make peace when 1 of the 2 warring parties won't even admit they are at war?
To correct your misunderstandings, Europe is leading negotiations, Europe oversaw the Minsk Accord and NATO has not been this united since the Cold War.
How do you make peace when 1 of the 2 warring parties won't even admit they are at war?
4
It appears that the U.S. is giving the orders, while Europe pays the price. Is it any wonder Germany and France are now meeting in Moscow without consulting with their American master?
NATO accounts for more than 60% of the world's military expenditures, while Russia accounts for less than 4%. Who is threatening whom?
NATO accounts for more than 60% of the world's military expenditures, while Russia accounts for less than 4%. Who is threatening whom?
7
@Allan
Still the same.
Russia is attacking Ukraine after using the Russian Army to annex Ukrainian territory and creating European insecurity.
Still the same.
Russia is attacking Ukraine after using the Russian Army to annex Ukrainian territory and creating European insecurity.
7
"Merkel and Hollande Go to Moscow". What a farce. Hollande wants to sell Mistrals and Merkel wants a tranquil Eastern Europe with unimpeded energy transmission. Neither will extend confrontation on behalf of Greater Europe. Makes one wonder if the American financial and military investment in Western Europe, with NATO during the Cold War, has been successful. (Both West Germany and France were beneficiaries.) These two, and their respective nations, are looking less and less like allies,
If the "new" peace plan is the same as Minsk I - it is dead in the water. The DPR and LPR have a right to expect the ground they have gained through combat and death be part of their new "state". If not the fighting goes on. Any thing that forces them to be under the government of Kiev is also a non-starter. Too much hatred there.
Poroshenko's thinking is unrealistic if he think Ukraine will continue to be a unitary state. It won't be. He should be prepared to lose what he has already lost in terms of the war. Otherwise they fighting will go on until he admits defeat.
Poroshenko's thinking is unrealistic if he think Ukraine will continue to be a unitary state. It won't be. He should be prepared to lose what he has already lost in terms of the war. Otherwise they fighting will go on until he admits defeat.
3
I am young enough to remember the Cuba crisis which took us to the brink of WW III. The US did not accept Russian involvement in their sphere of influence, so why should Russia accept this in the Ukraine.
Since the last 60 years we have witnessed American adventurism, supported by the UK. We have seen the result of catastrophic American diplomacy. To characterize: a. support of the house of Saud and Wahhabism indirectly ; b. overthrowing in 1953 the Government of Mohammad Mosaddegh; c. Vietman; d. full support to the Wahhabis during 1979-1989 in Afghanistan, when the Mujahedeen were employed, financed and armed; e. the Iraq war; f. the Ukraine proxy war. Therefore I was touched when Foreign Secretary Kerry lectured the world that we do not live in the 19th century but the 21st century.
I wouldn't mind hearing how the country that invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and attacked Libya; threatens Iran with an attack, while it uses drones to kill people in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen, tortures and holds military exercises near China justifies this. Over time the US invaded pretty much every Central American country when they didn't like where there politics were going like in Panama and Granada. The West has been encouraging the power change in Kiev knowing from the beginning the far-reaching consequences of such action: the Russian population inside Ukraine would never accept a Ukraine closely allied with NATO, which Russia sees as a threat to its borders, territory and interests.
Since the last 60 years we have witnessed American adventurism, supported by the UK. We have seen the result of catastrophic American diplomacy. To characterize: a. support of the house of Saud and Wahhabism indirectly ; b. overthrowing in 1953 the Government of Mohammad Mosaddegh; c. Vietman; d. full support to the Wahhabis during 1979-1989 in Afghanistan, when the Mujahedeen were employed, financed and armed; e. the Iraq war; f. the Ukraine proxy war. Therefore I was touched when Foreign Secretary Kerry lectured the world that we do not live in the 19th century but the 21st century.
I wouldn't mind hearing how the country that invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and attacked Libya; threatens Iran with an attack, while it uses drones to kill people in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen, tortures and holds military exercises near China justifies this. Over time the US invaded pretty much every Central American country when they didn't like where there politics were going like in Panama and Granada. The West has been encouraging the power change in Kiev knowing from the beginning the far-reaching consequences of such action: the Russian population inside Ukraine would never accept a Ukraine closely allied with NATO, which Russia sees as a threat to its borders, territory and interests.
5
Just heard a story of the horrendous conditions the native Ukrainian soldiers have to live with trying to put up the good fight. Their lack of the most basic supplies like toilet paper, wearing World War 2 tin helmets to using walky-talkys from paint gun games. Updated supplies need to be furnished immediately, followed just as quickly with technologically sound armaments and field detection devices. This is the least the coalition can do to prop up these courageous fighters .
4
Is the war in Ukraine an existential threat both to Europe and the United States? As the Soviet Union collapsed, the once proud and powerful nation was shamed and humiliated as former soviet satellites joined NATO; surrounding the xenophobic country. By studying Russian history it is well known that the country has been battling foreign invaders for over a millennium. Ukraine serves as a buffer between the east and west and Russia will not tolerate a NATO member at its door step. Conversely, Ukraine was established in 988AD known as the Kievan Empire; but unlike Muscovite Russ, it was unable to survive the Mongol invasions; leaving the empire in taters subsequently being incorporated into the Russian Empire. The present day conflict is between two Slavic nations; on the one hand, it is a history of subjugation and attempting to free itself from their oppressors who have blotted out its history substituting it with revisionist falsehoods; on the other hand, you have a nation committed to keep it borders free from western incursion even at the expense of the independent and sovereignty of Ukraine.
5
Regardless of how much of Ukraine that Russia steals, they will still be bordered by NATO countries.
Reading a lot of these posts, I can"t believe how many communists we have in the USA.
Reading a lot of these posts, I can"t believe how many communists we have in the USA.
2
The US may relish the idea of sending more arms to the Ukraine but Germany the key western country in this dispute does not look forward to the idea of a larger war with Russia.
The Germans if not the Americans are aware that the Russians can easily offset any increase in weaponry for Kiev by moving larger quantities of more sophisticated weapons into eastern Ukraine. This would make the war even more disastrous and gain nothing for Kiev.
American pressure to heat up the war into some sort of fight to the last Ukrainian hardly constitutes a useful policy. It also may in fact begin to drive a wedge between Washington and Berlin a far more important relationship than Ukraine could ever be.
Kiev is hoping for a NATO bailout but that will not be tolerated by the European components of NATO. Starting a ground war with a Russia that has 8,500 thermonuclear weapons is just not on.
The Germans if not the Americans are aware that the Russians can easily offset any increase in weaponry for Kiev by moving larger quantities of more sophisticated weapons into eastern Ukraine. This would make the war even more disastrous and gain nothing for Kiev.
American pressure to heat up the war into some sort of fight to the last Ukrainian hardly constitutes a useful policy. It also may in fact begin to drive a wedge between Washington and Berlin a far more important relationship than Ukraine could ever be.
Kiev is hoping for a NATO bailout but that will not be tolerated by the European components of NATO. Starting a ground war with a Russia that has 8,500 thermonuclear weapons is just not on.
8
I don't know. There is something regarding a place called the Sudentland and events early in the 20th Century that sort of come to my mind. You know, bullying, appeasement, eventual world war..... Or maybe I just dreamed it.
3
Amazing little video on The Western Edition of N.B.C. News last night: No, no, the Ukrainian guy said, we've got enough weapons--if they get through to us. Seems that there's a massive problem with corruption in Western Ukraine. Put that one in the stew, oh, diplomats.
3
Ever since Russia broke off Ukraine from its own territory and gave it independence, the US has been trying to destabilize it and turn it into a US and EU ally and install NATO on the border of Russia. It is interesting to see what Russian resistance to this plan - which was to be expected - is now causing among the major EU members and the US.
The "rebels" in the East still mainly using captured Ukrainian military equipment but with some Russian hardware as well, have regrouped and retrained and are now taking the fight to the Ukrainian military and their mercenary militias - who seem to be getting paid by US humanitarian funds! This has caused consternation among German, French and US leadership. So Biden is off jetting around in Europe, and Kerry is brow beating Poroshenko and taking a suitcase full of money to pay the Ukrainian mercenary forces, while Merkel and Hollande are off to brace the evil dragon Putin in his lair!!
The US has needlessly created this dangerous situation and Russia is not going to back down.
The "rebels" in the East still mainly using captured Ukrainian military equipment but with some Russian hardware as well, have regrouped and retrained and are now taking the fight to the Ukrainian military and their mercenary militias - who seem to be getting paid by US humanitarian funds! This has caused consternation among German, French and US leadership. So Biden is off jetting around in Europe, and Kerry is brow beating Poroshenko and taking a suitcase full of money to pay the Ukrainian mercenary forces, while Merkel and Hollande are off to brace the evil dragon Putin in his lair!!
The US has needlessly created this dangerous situation and Russia is not going to back down.
3
Was there a Russian invasion or a referendum for annexation into Russia? Must we continue to have wars over Eastern Europe?
As far as most experts are concerned, Russia has no interest in the Ukraine- aside from the crimea. The Ukraine is a basket-case that no intelligent leader would want a stake in. Of course the U.S. in its meddlesome ways has no intelligent leadership and therefore has created the problem. They and the Major media, including the NYT have created a monster in Putin, but can't see the forrest for the trees. And let me ask, whatever happened to the downed plane that the NYT , following the U.S. State Department line- blamed on Russia and/or the independence fighters- where has all the evidence gone. Is there more here than meets the eye.
3
If the West can contain Russia's aggression using Ukrainian blood, why not? Ukrainian soldiers' life are very affordable means of keeping Russia's tanks away from Zurich, Alaska, and California. Why is everyone so reluctant to admit that? Don't despise those poor folks' bravery, arm them so they can die with dignity for your freedoms and your right to post here without risking to be sent to Russia's concentration camp.
Maybe we should ship $3 or $5 billion of "aggressive :" weapons to our Europeans allies for "their defense" and see what they are willing to do with them?
And some more to Jordan. And some to countries in Africa to help "defeat" the ISIS. And then launch a campaign against the pirates from Somalia, which is "old news" only because they haven't grabbed an American recently.
It's only time until we fix the problem of not having left a few hundred thousands boots on the ground.
It appears that on every spin that is what Republicans claim. Along with balancing the budget.
And some more to Jordan. And some to countries in Africa to help "defeat" the ISIS. And then launch a campaign against the pirates from Somalia, which is "old news" only because they haven't grabbed an American recently.
It's only time until we fix the problem of not having left a few hundred thousands boots on the ground.
It appears that on every spin that is what Republicans claim. Along with balancing the budget.
When America went to war with Afghanistan, it was called war against a country harboring terrorists. America even went to war with Iraq which also was acknowledged. Why do we continue calling the war to East of Ukraine other than a war between Ukraine and Russia? Calling it by its name would be a good start to negotiate. Ukraine is not fighting some self proclaimed group that can operate sofisticated weaponry. It is fighting a super power, which Europeans, Americans plus others trying to negotiate would like to omit. Wake up and say that there's war going on in Europe with sharp ammunitions being used (people are being killed) and that the combatants include a huge nation with nukes, and another nation which is very poor and it's army disorganized. Then the water will be less murkier!
1
There was a democratic government in Kiev until America and it's European allies and corrupt crony capitalists conspired with mobs to stage a coup. Ukraine and Russia have deep long historical ethnic sectarian cultural language ties. Ukraine was part of the former Soviet Union and is a Russian neighbor. Crimea has been the home of the only Russian warm water naval base port since the days of Peter the Great. The crony capitalists in Kiev and Moscow should be able to agree and resolve their business problem.
Putin warned against making any attempt to include Ukraine as part of the EU, EZ or NATO. Imagine if Russia was behaving in either Mexico or Canada as America is in Ukraine.
Neither Germany nor France nor the U.K. want to needlessly further antagonize Russia with any military threats regarding a socioeconomic political problem that should be resolved on that basis by diplomacy.
The Soviet Union lost 27.5 million people to Nazi German Aryan supremacist aggression during The Great Patriotic War. Putin is an ethnic Russian nationalist in a an aging shrinking nation with only a 145 million people. With China and India rising and Japan sabre rattling Russia is nervous and insecure.
Putin warned against making any attempt to include Ukraine as part of the EU, EZ or NATO. Imagine if Russia was behaving in either Mexico or Canada as America is in Ukraine.
Neither Germany nor France nor the U.K. want to needlessly further antagonize Russia with any military threats regarding a socioeconomic political problem that should be resolved on that basis by diplomacy.
The Soviet Union lost 27.5 million people to Nazi German Aryan supremacist aggression during The Great Patriotic War. Putin is an ethnic Russian nationalist in a an aging shrinking nation with only a 145 million people. With China and India rising and Japan sabre rattling Russia is nervous and insecure.
3
We are provoking Russia by constantly moving NATO countries east. Can't our strategists see this will only lead to a major confrontation with Russia. For once our foreign policy should be cooperative not confrontational.
3
This was an inside job and started under the prior president in league with Putin. Udraine was already seeded with thousands of USSR retirees and many ot those military. Putin could see how much money was going from Moscow to those people who were running the country and badly so.
Putin can claim that the people want good goverment and Moscow is going to supply it.
We've no horse in the race, but it would be appropriate to lend them our Chicken Hawks.. beginning with Sen. McCain and who else wants to become involved.
There was a good plan and it was already implemented, by Moscow. This would be over already were it not for shooting down the Korean Airplane.
Putin can claim that the people want good goverment and Moscow is going to supply it.
We've no horse in the race, but it would be appropriate to lend them our Chicken Hawks.. beginning with Sen. McCain and who else wants to become involved.
There was a good plan and it was already implemented, by Moscow. This would be over already were it not for shooting down the Korean Airplane.
A cease fire line should be created at the Ukrainian-Russian border, with no one allowed to cross it except when accompanied by UN Forces.
UN military should be the only military patrolling a one mile cease fire line to each side of the border, with NATO troops protecting the Ukrainian side and Russian troops protecting the Russian side beyond the two mile cease fire zone. Unfortunately, Ukraine cannot trust its own military's leaders.
If Russia does not agree to this arrangement, all of Europe should boycott all Russian Oil and Gas. As there is a glut on the market, Europe should be able to find an ample supply of Oil and Gas other than from Russia. Russia needs to stop acting fascist.
UN military should be the only military patrolling a one mile cease fire line to each side of the border, with NATO troops protecting the Ukrainian side and Russian troops protecting the Russian side beyond the two mile cease fire zone. Unfortunately, Ukraine cannot trust its own military's leaders.
If Russia does not agree to this arrangement, all of Europe should boycott all Russian Oil and Gas. As there is a glut on the market, Europe should be able to find an ample supply of Oil and Gas other than from Russia. Russia needs to stop acting fascist.
13
Thanks you, Ukrainian lackey! Besides being a silly surrender where none is forced, your suggestions are cowardice. Russia is barely contributing here, it is not going to abandon Russians in Ukraine to the ultra nationalists in Kiev.
3
To stop being fascist Putin would have to renounce his true self. The only way for Russia to turn away from the dark side is to first get rid of Putin.
3
Do you really think the Russians and pro-Russian forces will allow the UN to set up cease-fire zones? And do you really think Europe, already facing economic crisis, is going to boycott Russian energy supplies? (That would mean turning to that rock of stability, the Middle East, for all its oil and gas.)
The armchair strategists are really out in force today . . .
The armchair strategists are really out in force today . . .
3
Ukraine was never serious about the Minsk agreement. They signed it because they feared an attack on Mariupol. However, after the truce was signed they immediately started rearming.
The Ukrainian parliament adopted a law to give the Donbass autonomy but that law was cancelled by the government - claiming that it was an attempt to create another South-Ossetia style enclave. But without the option of autonomy the conflict can only end when one side loses - what will involve high humanitarian and material costs. Yet Kerry is still selling us this option - seemingly unaware that that forces the rebels to consider extending their territory.
The claim of the South-Ossetia style enclave is rather typical of Ukrainian government propaganda. They will attribute some opportunistic motive to any move by the rebels, claiming that they want to conquer areas for the factories they contain or for the opportunities they offer for further conquests. In the mean time they ignore the main motive - self protection against shelling and attacks by the government army.
Yes, Russia has some demands on Ukraine such as no NATO membership. But these are very limited demands. Besides, they are largely shared by the Ukrainian population that wants their country to be a bridge between the EU and Russia.
The Ukrainian parliament adopted a law to give the Donbass autonomy but that law was cancelled by the government - claiming that it was an attempt to create another South-Ossetia style enclave. But without the option of autonomy the conflict can only end when one side loses - what will involve high humanitarian and material costs. Yet Kerry is still selling us this option - seemingly unaware that that forces the rebels to consider extending their territory.
The claim of the South-Ossetia style enclave is rather typical of Ukrainian government propaganda. They will attribute some opportunistic motive to any move by the rebels, claiming that they want to conquer areas for the factories they contain or for the opportunities they offer for further conquests. In the mean time they ignore the main motive - self protection against shelling and attacks by the government army.
Yes, Russia has some demands on Ukraine such as no NATO membership. But these are very limited demands. Besides, they are largely shared by the Ukrainian population that wants their country to be a bridge between the EU and Russia.
4
@WimR
Ukraine passed an autonomy statute shortly after Minsk. There was also nothing in Minks about not rearming. The first post-Minsk escalation is the current one, started by the rebels. Further, that law was only cancelled by the government after Donbass thumbed its nose at Minsk by having a "vote" in independence.
" In the mean time they ignore the main motive - self protection against shelling and attacks by the government army. "
The rebels have confided in you, have they, so you have some actual reason to hold that if they take the Debaltsevo pocket and territory immediately to the north of Donetsk that they won't go for the whole oblasti?
Ukraine passed an autonomy statute shortly after Minsk. There was also nothing in Minks about not rearming. The first post-Minsk escalation is the current one, started by the rebels. Further, that law was only cancelled by the government after Donbass thumbed its nose at Minsk by having a "vote" in independence.
" In the mean time they ignore the main motive - self protection against shelling and attacks by the government army. "
The rebels have confided in you, have they, so you have some actual reason to hold that if they take the Debaltsevo pocket and territory immediately to the north of Donetsk that they won't go for the whole oblasti?
1
I hope the EU and the US are proud of their intervention in Ukraine. It has brought nothing but death, debt, and misery to millions of Ukrainians of both loyalties and is likely to continue for a decade at least.
Now we are planning to add more fuel to the fire. By all means lets send them weapons. Russia will then do the same. An entire generation will then suffer.
The cold war rhetoric coming out of Washington is now so passé that I feel we are in a sort of time warp. Quite frankly it is of dubious credibility and reflects a sterile foreign policy.
Now Putin apparently has Asperger's disease. These comments just confirm how sterile and puerile our strategy has become. We must do better.
Now we are planning to add more fuel to the fire. By all means lets send them weapons. Russia will then do the same. An entire generation will then suffer.
The cold war rhetoric coming out of Washington is now so passé that I feel we are in a sort of time warp. Quite frankly it is of dubious credibility and reflects a sterile foreign policy.
Now Putin apparently has Asperger's disease. These comments just confirm how sterile and puerile our strategy has become. We must do better.
4
well said,
I would like to add that Yatsenyuk and Porochenko are 'hostages of and under menace by' Kiev's sizable Extreme Right faction. Lacking a leg to stand on, and risking losing it all, they think that they're still in the drivers seat.
I hope for peace that they're mistaken.
I would like to add that Yatsenyuk and Porochenko are 'hostages of and under menace by' Kiev's sizable Extreme Right faction. Lacking a leg to stand on, and risking losing it all, they think that they're still in the drivers seat.
I hope for peace that they're mistaken.
3
Don't worry about it.
European TV is full of videos showing tank convoys and "separatists" operating radar directed mobile artillery pieces, with new in box crated ammo. It is laughable to think this stuff was scavenged from abandoned Ukrainian depots. So yes, Russia has invaded and we know it.
Now the choice is do something about it, or not.
Europe has markets and energy supplies at stake, so will do nothing but talk. Amur'ca has even less at stake. It can go back to sleep, or do something that passes for useful nowadays, like voting to repeal Obamacare.
European TV is full of videos showing tank convoys and "separatists" operating radar directed mobile artillery pieces, with new in box crated ammo. It is laughable to think this stuff was scavenged from abandoned Ukrainian depots. So yes, Russia has invaded and we know it.
Now the choice is do something about it, or not.
Europe has markets and energy supplies at stake, so will do nothing but talk. Amur'ca has even less at stake. It can go back to sleep, or do something that passes for useful nowadays, like voting to repeal Obamacare.
7
Denials of Russian involvement are just window dressing, stop making believe they matter, they do not. You want some serious Russian involvement, send weapons to Ukraine. The Russians are NOT GOING TO LOSE THIS WAR, period. Wake up and smell the coffee.
3
CK, Putin has lost already. The world, and Russia, are simply waiting for the results to be put into place. Time is not on Putin's side. He is running out of money. Dictators need money. That's why Hitler was so buddy-buddy with the Swiss. If the Swiss did not fuel Hitler the Alps would have been flattened.
1
Putin draws reservists and prepares for war. It will be stopped only by the weapon. Putin won't look for the diplomatic decision. Putin believe in military defeat of the Ukrainian army. Refusal of military aid to Ukraine will stop Putin? It is silly. Lack of the weapon at the opponent never stopped an aggressor. Not to provide weapons for Ukraine simply increases Russia's temptation to escalate the intervention.
Only when Ukrainian military defence can plausibly hold Russian offence to a stalemate will a negotiated settlement become possible. Sometimes it takes guns to stop the guns.If Ukraine receives weapons and Putin will stop the Russian separatist will agree about the termination of military operation. Without it any diplomatic decision waits for a fate of the Minsk and Budapest Memorandum.
Russian separatist don't want a better life for the Donbas residents. They are just in it for the fight and don't care who gets killed. The Russian terrorists place weapon emplacement in inhabited block. Then shoot at the Ukrainian army and at civil people. Separatists do it specially to cause hatred to Kiev. And for show of the Russian television.
Only when Ukrainian military defence can plausibly hold Russian offence to a stalemate will a negotiated settlement become possible. Sometimes it takes guns to stop the guns.If Ukraine receives weapons and Putin will stop the Russian separatist will agree about the termination of military operation. Without it any diplomatic decision waits for a fate of the Minsk and Budapest Memorandum.
Russian separatist don't want a better life for the Donbas residents. They are just in it for the fight and don't care who gets killed. The Russian terrorists place weapon emplacement in inhabited block. Then shoot at the Ukrainian army and at civil people. Separatists do it specially to cause hatred to Kiev. And for show of the Russian television.
2
I cannot understand why the battle around Debaltsevo draws attention of NYT to the sufferings of non-combatants - and the shelling by the Ukrainian army of Donetsk, Gorlovka, etc. (with the use of cluster bombs and phosphorus) which has been continuing for SEVEN MONTHS and almost every day resulted in deaths and wounds of civilians - not so much.
I also cannot understand why according to Mr. McKain, Ukrainian forces "had" to use cluster bombs against Donetsk residents ("Colorado bugs", "вата" as the ukrainian mass media is referring to them implying that they are 2nd class).
Lastly, I cannot understand why Russia is not officially supplying separatists in Donetsk with arms - as the US does with regard to the militants in Syria. By all means, Russia has much more grounds to do this: it is our boundary, they are our relatives and, lastly, they are not terrorists - they are desperate miners and teachers defending their land against one of the biggest armies of Europe with HUGE Soviet time stockpiles of not precise but very powerful weapons - which are being used against the urban areas without any mercy.
I also cannot understand why according to Mr. McKain, Ukrainian forces "had" to use cluster bombs against Donetsk residents ("Colorado bugs", "вата" as the ukrainian mass media is referring to them implying that they are 2nd class).
Lastly, I cannot understand why Russia is not officially supplying separatists in Donetsk with arms - as the US does with regard to the militants in Syria. By all means, Russia has much more grounds to do this: it is our boundary, they are our relatives and, lastly, they are not terrorists - they are desperate miners and teachers defending their land against one of the biggest armies of Europe with HUGE Soviet time stockpiles of not precise but very powerful weapons - which are being used against the urban areas without any mercy.
3
As Human Rights Watch has observed, neither party has taken sufficient care with its artillery strikes. I note your lack of concern about any ostensible lack of coverage of the rebels in this regard.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2015/02/03/ukraine-rising-civilian-death-toll
Russia has no grounds. By invading Crimea and starting an armed rebellion in Ukraine, it comitted an aggression against Ukraine.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2015/02/03/ukraine-rising-civilian-death-toll
Russia has no grounds. By invading Crimea and starting an armed rebellion in Ukraine, it comitted an aggression against Ukraine.
1
Since about 20 years USA have been working on braking Ukraina out of the russian hemisphere and with a USA- coup last year and installation of puppets in Kiev, USA adviced Kiev to try war on Donbass and over 1 miljon refugees had to escape to Russia and ukrainian artillery had order to target cities and civilians to brake them down!
Now the ukrainian army lost 85% of its equippment as tanks and so on and tousands of soldiers ( Ukraina has mobile krematories for their fallen soldiers ! ).
Now USA send new equippment to help Kiev make war for several years!
Why does USA do this? Care of suffering people? No way!! For power against Russia ( Revenge for Syria? ) and money!
A new Vietnamwar in the backyard of Russia with the possibility of a WW3
is very good for the economy!
If Texas want to leave USA and people in Houston demonstrate for months
in the city with assistance of russian experts, who finally are killing some hundred people and chasing the elected govenor away, USA will accept the russian military precence in Texas and etnic cleaning of nontexican peple?
Kissinger already said, " not wise to play on the russian backyard "!
Today, however, real peacetalks may be possible! Merkel and Hollande will meet with Putin in Moskau and they have about the same ideas and EU does not want any new weapons to Kiev!
If Obama don´t make any stupid move war can end in Ukraina! USA better take care of the obamacreation ISIS kalifat, that´s the big probleme today
not Russia!
Now the ukrainian army lost 85% of its equippment as tanks and so on and tousands of soldiers ( Ukraina has mobile krematories for their fallen soldiers ! ).
Now USA send new equippment to help Kiev make war for several years!
Why does USA do this? Care of suffering people? No way!! For power against Russia ( Revenge for Syria? ) and money!
A new Vietnamwar in the backyard of Russia with the possibility of a WW3
is very good for the economy!
If Texas want to leave USA and people in Houston demonstrate for months
in the city with assistance of russian experts, who finally are killing some hundred people and chasing the elected govenor away, USA will accept the russian military precence in Texas and etnic cleaning of nontexican peple?
Kissinger already said, " not wise to play on the russian backyard "!
Today, however, real peacetalks may be possible! Merkel and Hollande will meet with Putin in Moskau and they have about the same ideas and EU does not want any new weapons to Kiev!
If Obama don´t make any stupid move war can end in Ukraina! USA better take care of the obamacreation ISIS kalifat, that´s the big probleme today
not Russia!
"Mr. Semenchenko, in an interview before he was wounded over the weekend in heavy fighting in Debaltseve, said that on a recent visit to Washington he had urged officials to send aid directly to the front, bypassing the general staff."
This comment illustrates a dangerous aspect of the Civil War in Ukraine. The fascist 'volunteers' fighting on the side of Kiev have every intention of escalating a confrontation with Russia and will do so to draw a complicit 'West' and a conniving NATO into deeper engagement. Arming these groups is as dangerous and fraught with pitfalls as was and is the case in Syria. If the USA wants to end the Civil War in Ukraine - and that is a big IF - it must force its protégé regime to agree to a meaningful federal structure in the country to avoid the country breaking apart. There should be no question of directly arming fascist predators such as the Asov battalion.
This comment illustrates a dangerous aspect of the Civil War in Ukraine. The fascist 'volunteers' fighting on the side of Kiev have every intention of escalating a confrontation with Russia and will do so to draw a complicit 'West' and a conniving NATO into deeper engagement. Arming these groups is as dangerous and fraught with pitfalls as was and is the case in Syria. If the USA wants to end the Civil War in Ukraine - and that is a big IF - it must force its protégé regime to agree to a meaningful federal structure in the country to avoid the country breaking apart. There should be no question of directly arming fascist predators such as the Asov battalion.
3
What is the role of the ultra nationalist militias? Why no mention of them in Western media? Who are the 5,000 plus dead and who killed them? Ukraine is a complex new country, composed of a hodgepodge of regions with different heritages. Wish the West would be more aware of the complex histories of these different countries, such as Iraq, before interfering.
3
Ha, ha. Six months without visiting the site and not what has not changed. Paranoia is booming. People, you are able to think at all? Although whom I ask .
Russian weapons and soldiers? Where? Is there at least one photo? No, no, and no again. Oh, I forgot sick fantasies of American politicians, which any normal psychologist can diagnose even on their photos (I have about Makeyne, Kerry and Baydane), it is the last resort and indisputable truth.
And here nazi cartels (official armed forces of Ukraine) have the American arms and there is a photo, and video confirming it only in Europe and in America it won't be shown, strong censorship for journalists.
Russian weapons and soldiers? Where? Is there at least one photo? No, no, and no again. Oh, I forgot sick fantasies of American politicians, which any normal psychologist can diagnose even on their photos (I have about Makeyne, Kerry and Baydane), it is the last resort and indisputable truth.
And here nazi cartels (official armed forces of Ukraine) have the American arms and there is a photo, and video confirming it only in Europe and in America it won't be shown, strong censorship for journalists.
1
There is one point I don't understand: Mr. Poroshenko is doing in Ukraine exactly the same thing as Mr. Assad is doing in Syria - They are both killing their own citizens. Mr. Assad, though he was elected by the people, is commonly considered a villain, while Mr . Poroshenko, though he came to power by a coup, is considered a great democratic leader.
3
this article was published in 2005 By TAHAR BEN JELLOUN (http://www.lepoint.fr/invites-du-point/tahar-ben-jelloun/ben-jelloun-syr...
Rarely has a people had to face both as enemies and murderers. Assad obviously comes top of the list. But he is the enemy visible, who, surrounded by his Alawite clan, daily bombard civilians. It does not seek to know if among these victims would find newborns and adolescents. As long as her children are preserved, do not lack anything, others can die. Thus. He was educated in the absence of feelings. To govern and last, she was taught that one must be hard and without mercy. He is ruthless. It shows on his face smooth, clean shaven, probably with a fragrant aftershave purchased in the duty free area.
This man continues his war without disturbing his sleep. It shows that he sleeps well. No wrinkles, no dark circles. After all, he did his job conscientiously. At night, he must do his accounts in a book inherited from his father when he entered the daily number of deaths. United Nations released a report showing only the children since the beginning of the war, the army of Bashar al-Assad has killed eleven thousand children. Of course, all menacing and dangerous rebel!
Rarely has a people had to face both as enemies and murderers. Assad obviously comes top of the list. But he is the enemy visible, who, surrounded by his Alawite clan, daily bombard civilians. It does not seek to know if among these victims would find newborns and adolescents. As long as her children are preserved, do not lack anything, others can die. Thus. He was educated in the absence of feelings. To govern and last, she was taught that one must be hard and without mercy. He is ruthless. It shows on his face smooth, clean shaven, probably with a fragrant aftershave purchased in the duty free area.
This man continues his war without disturbing his sleep. It shows that he sleeps well. No wrinkles, no dark circles. After all, he did his job conscientiously. At night, he must do his accounts in a book inherited from his father when he entered the daily number of deaths. United Nations released a report showing only the children since the beginning of the war, the army of Bashar al-Assad has killed eleven thousand children. Of course, all menacing and dangerous rebel!
@Giant Tristan
Assad is a dictator who violently suppresses dissent as a matter of first resort (which is what started the uprising against him. Poroshenko was elected in a free election after the coup. Further, the uprising he is fighting was started by an outside power as a matter of first resort.
Assad is a dictator who violently suppresses dissent as a matter of first resort (which is what started the uprising against him. Poroshenko was elected in a free election after the coup. Further, the uprising he is fighting was started by an outside power as a matter of first resort.
2
What prevents peace is:
1. Ukrainian ultra-nationalism
2. Western support for Ukrainian ultra-nationalism
The Russians have been very consistent, and telegraphed their intentions clearly all along this process: they would support ethnic Russians in Ukraine if they were put upon by the government there.
The Ukrainians allowed their worst right wing elements to raise protests to a disturbingly violent level, they then initiated a coup ousting a regime that was voted for by Ukrainian Russians whereby Russian speakers were immediately marginalized.
Russia is doing the right thing by supporting Federation for Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. And, they are not going to turn tail and run when those people are right across their border. American suckers who buy the anti Russian propaganda ought to be ashamed of themselves, unfortunately they have no shame.
1. Ukrainian ultra-nationalism
2. Western support for Ukrainian ultra-nationalism
The Russians have been very consistent, and telegraphed their intentions clearly all along this process: they would support ethnic Russians in Ukraine if they were put upon by the government there.
The Ukrainians allowed their worst right wing elements to raise protests to a disturbingly violent level, they then initiated a coup ousting a regime that was voted for by Ukrainian Russians whereby Russian speakers were immediately marginalized.
Russia is doing the right thing by supporting Federation for Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. And, they are not going to turn tail and run when those people are right across their border. American suckers who buy the anti Russian propaganda ought to be ashamed of themselves, unfortunately they have no shame.
5
What has created this war is:
1. Russian ultra-nationalism
2. Putin's need to protect the billions he and his cronies have stolen from state coffers, and to distract the Russian populace from the economic disaster he has thrust them into.
Every other point in your post is not worth rebutting, because you're parroting boiler-plate Kremlin talking points.
1. Russian ultra-nationalism
2. Putin's need to protect the billions he and his cronies have stolen from state coffers, and to distract the Russian populace from the economic disaster he has thrust them into.
Every other point in your post is not worth rebutting, because you're parroting boiler-plate Kremlin talking points.
5
Europe is. America is not, not by arming Ukrainian oligarchic forces and taking sides in a conflict that's none of its business. As Europe tries to appease, America irritates, it's 'natural' predisposition.
3
American politicians and American newspapers have blood on their hands in this fight. They've lied about Russian intentions in order to use Putin as a bogeyman, how they are in a fix because they don't have either the integrity, the honesty, or the courage to admit they are wrong. So people will die instead.
The Germans, who happen to know a bit about their backyard, have stated there is no military solution here. That's for two reasons - 1. more arms will get many more people killed and, 2. The Russians can match any level of arms we add to the fight.
The Russians aren't playing here, they are defending a blood ally. The US is just defending a corrupt welfare baby state it did not give a hoot about a year ago, on a gamble that it might pay off for the West in banking and commerce. It's obscene what we have promulgated in Ukraine.
The Germans, who happen to know a bit about their backyard, have stated there is no military solution here. That's for two reasons - 1. more arms will get many more people killed and, 2. The Russians can match any level of arms we add to the fight.
The Russians aren't playing here, they are defending a blood ally. The US is just defending a corrupt welfare baby state it did not give a hoot about a year ago, on a gamble that it might pay off for the West in banking and commerce. It's obscene what we have promulgated in Ukraine.
5
What is the Russian recipe for shoe leather? And wash it down with government Vodka. How sad. How pathetic.
The Soviet Union disintegrated after attacking Afghanistan and Russia will leave the Ukraine mortally wounded.
As John Lennon said, sometimes karma is instant.
Putin is not a very bright bulb who has managed to get by by bullying and demanding heavily scripted propaganda.
Russia is doomed until the people revolt and install a leader who cares about the people over the oligarchs.
As John Lennon said, sometimes karma is instant.
Putin is not a very bright bulb who has managed to get by by bullying and demanding heavily scripted propaganda.
Russia is doomed until the people revolt and install a leader who cares about the people over the oligarchs.
2
I dunno, somehow I think Putin might know more about geopolitics that John Lennon.
This latest incursion has little to do with grabbing more land, although that may be the outcome.
The timing of this coincides with the falling ruble and Russians increased concern over their perilous oil based economy. To keep their mind off of bad news, Putin does what any smart, devious leader would do, keep their minds focused on another threat, not the one that would hurt his Crime family politically.
The timing of this coincides with the falling ruble and Russians increased concern over their perilous oil based economy. To keep their mind off of bad news, Putin does what any smart, devious leader would do, keep their minds focused on another threat, not the one that would hurt his Crime family politically.
1
These are serious discussions ongoing with serious decisions forthcoming. There has been too much bad precedent (false statements about actuality on the ground) from Russia to date. Which means this is more President Putin's D-M to get to reasonable compromises more so than Ukraine, Germany, France, Poland or the United States. This summation comes from an American citizen who believed the State Department and Administration needed to provide President Putin with expanded patience and understanding given Russia''s core strategic objectives and history of culture, religion and kinship with the Baltics. Also, this talk-slant of the new Ukrainian government being facist in nature is something that would be totally unacceptable to the US and certainly Europe, given history. It's rubbish. This is more about two sides of the same country not getting along, for decades, not facism. So, it is Putin who must choose his way. The US and Europe must continue to hammer home none of us have long term strategic interests in Ukraine. However, if Ukrainians travel around Europe and decide they want great economic partnership with Europe and the US, if they like their experiences and what they see, then that should be their choice. It's not like new Russian money doesn't live in Europe also. We need a strong Russia for partnership on Iran, the Middle East, energy and space. Bad precedent leads to bad outcomes. Nobody accepts that.
1
Here is how I see this matter.
Does the U.S. really want to settle this Ukraine crisis peacefully or does the U.S. want to weaken Putin/Russia with its goal of regime change both in Russia and Putin's ally, Pres. Assad in Syria? Seems the U.S. agenda is regime change in Syria but with Putin supporting Assad, it would be very difficult. This may be a big chess game, folks.
Does the U.S. really want to settle this Ukraine crisis peacefully or does the U.S. want to weaken Putin/Russia with its goal of regime change both in Russia and Putin's ally, Pres. Assad in Syria? Seems the U.S. agenda is regime change in Syria but with Putin supporting Assad, it would be very difficult. This may be a big chess game, folks.
OK, let's talk in the name of peace. What does peace fear? War. The president of France said there was war in Ukraine. The "pacifists" say no French, German or American, should die for Ukraine: Putin wants it, let him have it. Peace will follow.
But then the question is: why does Putin want Ukraine? Does Putin wants all this property for the same reason as Hitler wanted the property of the Jews in 1938?
What else? Hitler attacked the Jews because his massive militarization program had impoverished Germany. He needed wealth and to look victorious. Same with Putin: he is remaking his entire military, all the way to nuclear forces, as if he knew world war was coming.
Then "pacifists" said: let Hitler have the Jews, that's what he wants. No French, British, let alone American, should die for Jews.
However, there was a matter of principle: can we let the leader of a great nation use massive lethal force to steal massive property? Can we tolerate crimes against humanity?
Putin is the first to annex territory in Eurasia, since Hitler.
Some warn: don’t make him mad, he is Hitler, with nukes.
Question: why was Putin not acting like Hitler before? Because, before, he was afraid. Now he is not. Thus, to make him stop, one has to scare him.
Some will say it’s too scary to try to scare him.
Why?
Because he is Hitler, whine the “pacifists”.
Then the question is this: did appeasers not learn history? Trying to make friends with evil does not just endanger peace, it’s a crime.
But then the question is: why does Putin want Ukraine? Does Putin wants all this property for the same reason as Hitler wanted the property of the Jews in 1938?
What else? Hitler attacked the Jews because his massive militarization program had impoverished Germany. He needed wealth and to look victorious. Same with Putin: he is remaking his entire military, all the way to nuclear forces, as if he knew world war was coming.
Then "pacifists" said: let Hitler have the Jews, that's what he wants. No French, British, let alone American, should die for Jews.
However, there was a matter of principle: can we let the leader of a great nation use massive lethal force to steal massive property? Can we tolerate crimes against humanity?
Putin is the first to annex territory in Eurasia, since Hitler.
Some warn: don’t make him mad, he is Hitler, with nukes.
Question: why was Putin not acting like Hitler before? Because, before, he was afraid. Now he is not. Thus, to make him stop, one has to scare him.
Some will say it’s too scary to try to scare him.
Why?
Because he is Hitler, whine the “pacifists”.
Then the question is this: did appeasers not learn history? Trying to make friends with evil does not just endanger peace, it’s a crime.
1
Its Munich all-over!
Have we not learned a thing from the past? Have we not seen how Hitler grabbed the "Sudetenland"? Are we missing the signs again?
Appeasement only makes the aggressor be more aggressive!
The western countries must do more to directly support the Ukrainians as well as increase the sanctions against Russia to either force Putin to the table or our of the Kremlin.
Have we not learned a thing from the past? Have we not seen how Hitler grabbed the "Sudetenland"? Are we missing the signs again?
Appeasement only makes the aggressor be more aggressive!
The western countries must do more to directly support the Ukrainians as well as increase the sanctions against Russia to either force Putin to the table or our of the Kremlin.
3
The difference is that Germany in the 1930s was dynamic and better-armed than any of the Western Powers, and led by a dictator who was determined to dominate Europe and then the world. The situation today is utterly different; the West is vastly more powerful than Russia, and even if Putin wanted to conquer Europe (which I seriously doubt), he hasn't got the horses to do it.
It is time to stop fighting, to stop this bloodshed. Supplies of arms would be a wrong decision of our government. we live in 21th century. It is time to negotiate. This is not the same as fighting with ISIS or Papuans Boko Haram. People are killed, Pentagon should not sponsor world hatred.
2
We need to stop and look at the history of this conflict. The Ukraine was ruled by very corrupted leadership when this mess began, and when they were taking millions of cubic feet of natural gas monthly, or daily, they were telling the Russians they could not/would not pay for it. The West did ...nothing.
Very frankly, I do not see how the Ukrainians will ever be self supporting, and it gets colder than a well diggers booty in that place. Turn the free natural gas off, and the Ukrainians freeze.
At this point, the Europeans are doing the very best thing that can be done. There is a lot in common between the Ukrainians and Russians.. the United States needs to support the Europeans in finding a non-violent solution. Add U.S. arms to this mess, and the Ukrainians will be faced with very excellent stand off weapons with the notion in their heads that they have the United States at their backs, That idea is just not possible.
LEAVE IT ALONE.. support the discussion the Europeans are fostering. And that WILL BE the very best thing for the Ukrainians.
Very frankly, I do not see how the Ukrainians will ever be self supporting, and it gets colder than a well diggers booty in that place. Turn the free natural gas off, and the Ukrainians freeze.
At this point, the Europeans are doing the very best thing that can be done. There is a lot in common between the Ukrainians and Russians.. the United States needs to support the Europeans in finding a non-violent solution. Add U.S. arms to this mess, and the Ukrainians will be faced with very excellent stand off weapons with the notion in their heads that they have the United States at their backs, That idea is just not possible.
LEAVE IT ALONE.. support the discussion the Europeans are fostering. And that WILL BE the very best thing for the Ukrainians.
3
Our president is not the only World Leader! I could not admire President Obama more for keeping this in mind by working with other Western Leaders to solve a weighty problem: diplomatically! Others in the U.S.A. call out for the United States alone, to carry the burden of action in another country! It is right and just when speaking of world peace, that the entire world be a part of the solution! If there is a country who does not participate in equal measure, that country may, in acertain instances, not be considered worthy of our help or the help of others!
I do believe in the interest of world peace, The United States, along with other countries, should seriously consider supplying Ukraine with basic defense systems like radar. The United States, Russia, France, India and Israel all have missile defense systems ready, if needed. Let's not throw the Ukraine under the bus!
Speaking of world peace, I am thinking that Palestine could use an iron dome defense system such as Israel has. So, who would help to provide it? I believe the U.S. should, after all, we provided millions to pay for Israel's! We really do need to level the playing field over there! However, right now, Gaza has enough problems trying to rebuild since while Nations pledged $5.4 billion to help rebuild Gaza. “Virtually none of it has reached Gaza."
I do believe in the interest of world peace, The United States, along with other countries, should seriously consider supplying Ukraine with basic defense systems like radar. The United States, Russia, France, India and Israel all have missile defense systems ready, if needed. Let's not throw the Ukraine under the bus!
Speaking of world peace, I am thinking that Palestine could use an iron dome defense system such as Israel has. So, who would help to provide it? I believe the U.S. should, after all, we provided millions to pay for Israel's! We really do need to level the playing field over there! However, right now, Gaza has enough problems trying to rebuild since while Nations pledged $5.4 billion to help rebuild Gaza. “Virtually none of it has reached Gaza."
Europe, through the leaders of Germany and France, is trying to establish a peaceful agreement in Ukraine for the sake of the suffering people of eastern Ukraine and for the stabiliteit of eastern Europe. The USA, on the other hand, seems bent on fanning the flames of war by providing more and more weapons.
Please, USA, leave Ukraine alone, withdraw all the CIA agents from Kieve, and focus on the many problems at home (infrastructure, education, gun control, employment, to name a few).
Please, USA, leave Ukraine alone, withdraw all the CIA agents from Kieve, and focus on the many problems at home (infrastructure, education, gun control, employment, to name a few).
2
Sending someone arms to end fighting is like pouring kerosene into a fire to extinguish it
2
I feel for the Ukraine people both in the west and especially the east where the Russian are intent on partitioning the country outright. It the civilians who experienced losses, injury and devastation of having losses all around you. The Russian propaganda to Russian speakers living in the east to take sides is a bullying tactic that force folks to act like sheep during an occupation of those territories. The Russians must be stood up to and defensive measures to counter their incursions provided to Ukraine as a legitimate defense of their country.
2
In Ukraine, both sides use irregular troups whereas the official Ukrainan army refuses to fight. Many miliary officers and regular soldiers regard the rebels in the East as their fellow citizens fighting for regional autonomy. To supply weapons to Ukraine would certainly mess up the situation and result in what we have seen in Afghanistan and Iraq: large-scale uncontrolled violence. Ukraine has been a failed state managed not by law but money. The security sector (police, judiciary, penal system) is extremely corrupt. A new constitution based on federalism, regional autonomy and severe administrative reform measures is the only viable solution in my eyes. Unfortunately western pressures on the Ukrainian government to offer such a solution have failed so far.
3
The best thing that can happen to Ukraine is for it to lose the pro-Russian territories (in terms of the civilian population) that it cannot control. This will make what remains of the country more politically homogenous and sustainably pro-Western.
3
I don't think Putin will stop with that concession, and neither do Ukraine's neighbors.
It is shocking that the West has not learned its lessons from going for war instead of keep trying for peace. From Syria to Ukraine; the opposing sides are being pumped up with weapons, the result of which will be continued bloodshed and destruction for many years to come. In the case for Syria it is like a street fight has erupted and instead of the authorities trying to stop the fighting; both the sides are giving their own group more and more weapons. The supply of fighters and weapons on both sides is endless and it will lead to increasing levels of death, destruction and both emotional and physical scars. Even if Assad falls; his groups will become the opposition and the fighting and destruction will continue for many years to come. Also the West has still not taken lessons from the consequences of removing dictators!
In the case of Ukraine the West is increasingly trying to make Ukraine stand up to Russia. We all know that no matter how strong Ukraine becomes it will never be able to hold its own against Russia. The West is playing a dangerous game shoving nuclear powered Russia into an economic corner. Given Putin's bent of mind who knows how he will lash out. Putin already believes that the West is out to destroy Russia and Russia's only triumph card is their military power; which Putin as the last resort will use with disastrous consequences for both sides.
The fundamental problem is that mankind is still fuzzy about wisdom and peace!
In the case of Ukraine the West is increasingly trying to make Ukraine stand up to Russia. We all know that no matter how strong Ukraine becomes it will never be able to hold its own against Russia. The West is playing a dangerous game shoving nuclear powered Russia into an economic corner. Given Putin's bent of mind who knows how he will lash out. Putin already believes that the West is out to destroy Russia and Russia's only triumph card is their military power; which Putin as the last resort will use with disastrous consequences for both sides.
The fundamental problem is that mankind is still fuzzy about wisdom and peace!
14
I know Russia has nuclear weapons, but so do a lot of other countries. Please stop thinking of Russia as a "world power." They are not. They have a lot of territory, a rather small comparative population, and a failing economy smaller than the state of California.
4
Sajidkhan,
So we should just let the aggressive expansionism run its own course? Was Hitler satisfied when he was ceded Poland? Will Putin or IS be happy with the gains they've already achieved? I love peace too but when a bully comes into the schoolyard, you'd better be prepared to give up your lunch money or fight.
So we should just let the aggressive expansionism run its own course? Was Hitler satisfied when he was ceded Poland? Will Putin or IS be happy with the gains they've already achieved? I love peace too but when a bully comes into the schoolyard, you'd better be prepared to give up your lunch money or fight.
4
The first photo does not look like shelling; it bears the unmistakable mark of targeted attack, both with machine guns and a final impact from a tank or an RPG.
The title of this article exhibits miserably primitive manipulative effort. (1) There is no such thing as "Europe." (2) The US government protects American corporate interests, primarily those of the Federal Reserve, both at home and abroad. Of course, out of diminishing taxpayer's money. As the greatest danger to "America" comes from the threat to the petrodollar, US foreign policy can be nearly exclusively calculated by prioritizing that single aspect.
For some of the best-documented political blogs, check out http://www.strategic-culture.org. The funny thing is, the site is created by Russians. Their level of mass manipulation addresses intelligent people, whose decisions are ultimately the ones that count over there. Here, mass-manipulation simply strives to keep the masses under control.
The title of this article exhibits miserably primitive manipulative effort. (1) There is no such thing as "Europe." (2) The US government protects American corporate interests, primarily those of the Federal Reserve, both at home and abroad. Of course, out of diminishing taxpayer's money. As the greatest danger to "America" comes from the threat to the petrodollar, US foreign policy can be nearly exclusively calculated by prioritizing that single aspect.
For some of the best-documented political blogs, check out http://www.strategic-culture.org. The funny thing is, the site is created by Russians. Their level of mass manipulation addresses intelligent people, whose decisions are ultimately the ones that count over there. Here, mass-manipulation simply strives to keep the masses under control.
1
In order to bring an end to the Ukrainian conflict, we first need to understand what it is the other side is trying to do. Should we respond to it as if its intervention is designed to protect the interests of ethnic Russians in Ukraine or if we think we can reason with Putin, we are wasting our time.
Russia is attacking Ukraine because of its moves to join NATO and the EU, which would both deny Russia the opportunity of eventually reabsorbing it into its strategic and economic orbit (and increasing its national power thereby) while moving that which it sees as an existential threat to it eastward. Russia will not tolerate such a development and is willing to fight to prevent that. We look at such a thing as welcome and normal but are not willing to fight to allow it. Who is likely to prevail?
The only way the fighting ends is if NATO intervenes decisively or if we give the Russians what they want. It is no coincidence that the latest round of invasion has taken place following Ukraine's amending its law regarding foreign alliances with the West. That is what is driving the conflict, and even were we to arm the Ukrainians and their forces could use those arms effectively, they cannot win this on their own.
Part of being in NATO is being willing to defend each other in need. If we are not willing to defend Ukraine now, in reality it will not be allowed in. So why hold out hope for them while provoking Putin as well? A Finlandization of Ukraine best protects that country now
Russia is attacking Ukraine because of its moves to join NATO and the EU, which would both deny Russia the opportunity of eventually reabsorbing it into its strategic and economic orbit (and increasing its national power thereby) while moving that which it sees as an existential threat to it eastward. Russia will not tolerate such a development and is willing to fight to prevent that. We look at such a thing as welcome and normal but are not willing to fight to allow it. Who is likely to prevail?
The only way the fighting ends is if NATO intervenes decisively or if we give the Russians what they want. It is no coincidence that the latest round of invasion has taken place following Ukraine's amending its law regarding foreign alliances with the West. That is what is driving the conflict, and even were we to arm the Ukrainians and their forces could use those arms effectively, they cannot win this on their own.
Part of being in NATO is being willing to defend each other in need. If we are not willing to defend Ukraine now, in reality it will not be allowed in. So why hold out hope for them while provoking Putin as well? A Finlandization of Ukraine best protects that country now
4
"The only way the fighting ends is if NATO intervenes decisively..."
NATO cannot intervene decisively unless its object is to end civilization on earth. The Russians see this conflict as an existential threat. That means they will use nuclear weapons to defend themselves if necessary.
The time has come for a diplomatic solution to the problem. That means the West will need to make major concessions on the issue of Russia's security concerns.
NATO cannot intervene decisively unless its object is to end civilization on earth. The Russians see this conflict as an existential threat. That means they will use nuclear weapons to defend themselves if necessary.
The time has come for a diplomatic solution to the problem. That means the West will need to make major concessions on the issue of Russia's security concerns.
If the Ukrainian military is infested with pro-Russian loyalists, it makes no sense to arm the forces there to fight the separatists in Eastern Ukraine. The gear and weapons could easily fall into the wrong hands.
The only alternative to change the equation would be to put NATO boots on the ground. But this option is not on the table and it leaves the Ukrainian army fighting a David versus Goliath battle!
Putin knows that and exploits the situation to carve out another Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia in Eastern Ukraine. He has to find a means to reach Crimea and believes in the solution of annexing Donbas. So the efforts of Hollande and Merkel may just be worthless.
The only alternative to change the equation would be to put NATO boots on the ground. But this option is not on the table and it leaves the Ukrainian army fighting a David versus Goliath battle!
Putin knows that and exploits the situation to carve out another Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia in Eastern Ukraine. He has to find a means to reach Crimea and believes in the solution of annexing Donbas. So the efforts of Hollande and Merkel may just be worthless.
4
If you arm Ukranians - it will show up how useless and impractical they are. Its not wise - while selling them to Arabs. Secondly all restrictions on Russia sending arms to Ukraine will cease. If NATO an arm Ukraine - then ofcourse Russia can arm separatists. It will be an all out war which US will be willing to fight to the last Ukranian. Russia wont back down - and you can take to to lunch.
I think this may be the best reason to bring NATO into play, immediately.
Well, it looks like they got nowhere with Putin. No joint press conference, and Hollande and Merkle are already on their way to the airport. People are speculating on a quick escalation of the violence. It's a shame, but what are we going to do with someone refuses to negotiate or compromise? I think we've given Putin enough opportunities, if he had ever been willing to listen to reason from his neighbors.
This article is proof of why the US shouldn't get involved in Ukraine. Why do we want to supply the current Ukrainian government with weapons? So they can bomb their own citizens some more?
Imagine the dreadful alternative: Donetsk and Luhansk become "autonomous republics". Russia uses the threat of a humiliating secession (with Crimea as precedent) to keep their mirror-images in Kyiv overpaying for gas. Poroshenko and his oligarch cronies from the pre-Yanukovych era continue to rob their people blind as they have for the past 25 years. Nothing really changes, except a million people can start rebuilding their lives and the death toll stays under 6,000.
Let's not support Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk. The current government acts the same as Russia and the Soviet Union. Take the elimination of 300 officers. That sounds less like counter-espionage and more like a Stalinist purge (especially in the context of the power-play between the regime and its militias, and the existing establishment). The reliance on paramilitary forces, the plans to establish an alternate military command structure exclusively loyal to the men currently in power, and the all-consuming paranoia certainly seem like a throwback to the good old days of Uncle Joe. Since the fall of the USSR Ukraine had been steadily moving backwards in living standards, but it looks like it's finally back in the 1950's: bombed out cities, a murderous government, economic collapse.
Imagine the dreadful alternative: Donetsk and Luhansk become "autonomous republics". Russia uses the threat of a humiliating secession (with Crimea as precedent) to keep their mirror-images in Kyiv overpaying for gas. Poroshenko and his oligarch cronies from the pre-Yanukovych era continue to rob their people blind as they have for the past 25 years. Nothing really changes, except a million people can start rebuilding their lives and the death toll stays under 6,000.
Let's not support Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk. The current government acts the same as Russia and the Soviet Union. Take the elimination of 300 officers. That sounds less like counter-espionage and more like a Stalinist purge (especially in the context of the power-play between the regime and its militias, and the existing establishment). The reliance on paramilitary forces, the plans to establish an alternate military command structure exclusively loyal to the men currently in power, and the all-consuming paranoia certainly seem like a throwback to the good old days of Uncle Joe. Since the fall of the USSR Ukraine had been steadily moving backwards in living standards, but it looks like it's finally back in the 1950's: bombed out cities, a murderous government, economic collapse.
7
I don't believe the US is pushing for anything but propaganda. It looks like arming Ukraine is determined already and this trip is to serve as evidence that they gave Russia every chance and it was Putin's choice. Merkel and Hollande are intervening between Putin and the US, and Kerry is doing something else. Germany and France made it clear they would not be arming Ukraine a couple of days ago, almost at the same time. Now the leaders of both countries suddenly go to Russia and they will go back home and say they tried. Meanwhile the US lets it out that they are thinking about it and they drop hints that the public and other countries are pressuring them. Choreography is a better word for this than diplomacy.
13
Yes, let us cry for Putin and all his lies that got him to this point.
1
- i guess more russians and their brother ukrainians are going to die on the US chessboard
2
Very good, you should be getting more recs, but asking people to think is too much I am afraid.
A non-violent solution to this ongoing conflict is staring us in the face. The UN should immediately offer to conduct a plebiscite in the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk regions in eastern Ukraine where the people can make a democratic choice on whether to remain as part of Ukraine a or to secede as independent states. Let the people decide: what could be fairer than that?
9
It might work. Worth a try, but they should not drag their feet.
Why would the Russians agree to a plebiscite?
There is no democracy in Russia. Russia will not allow a fair election.
Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians in WW II. They will never vote for the Russians
Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians in WW II. They will never vote for the Russians
1
Imagine, if the Russian friendly and validly elected leader of the Ukraine, wasn't overthrown, we could be preparing for the next Ukrainian presidential elections (Euro-friendly candidates had a good chance), without thousands of dead and a total breakdown in international relations.
Seems better than Victoria Nuland's idea, in retrospect, doesn't it?
Seems better than Victoria Nuland's idea, in retrospect, doesn't it?
12
It's hard to imagine that when Yanukovich accelerated his overthrow by initiated deadly force against the Maidan. By the time the February 21 agreement came, his support among the security services and Rada had evaporated to the point that he had fled. None of this, incidentally, was Nuland's idea.
2
I don't think that was on the table.
Yes - this is the whole point. Thank you for writing this.
But the new competent and democratically elected Ukrainian leadership was never a goal of DC neocons. They goal was war at any cost.
But the new competent and democratically elected Ukrainian leadership was never a goal of DC neocons. They goal was war at any cost.
With all these wars, our taxes are going to be sky high forever. Sure violence , war materiel, and weapons are a lot of fun, but they are great ways to bust a nation's economy.
4
Well said, Hector. and let's not forget the increasing possibility of yet another war with Iran (even though Iran is, for all intents and purposes, our ally in the fight against ISIS).
Frankly, defeat in Ukraine is to let Russia have the spoils. Even the most ardent supporters of Russia will tire unless Russia provides reconstruction, a booming economy, and jobs --something that Putin cannot deliver to Russia itself.
Providing arms to Ukraine needs to be seen in context. The US is no longer a great superpower. Today the US confronts serious problems at home, and is challenged by an extremely unsettled world --from Yemen to Egypt, from Israel to Latin America, to China, Pakistan, and of course, our never-ending wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, are all extreme and expensive challenges.
A direct conflict with Russia, and providing arms to Ukraine would mean this, can further add tremendous problems to the US. Today the US needs to confront unconventional enemies, adding a conventional one, and with nuclear weapons to boot is by no means in the interest of the United States. Victory over so many foes, no matter how great our country and how puny an enemy is in isolation, cannot be assured.
Providing arms to Ukraine needs to be seen in context. The US is no longer a great superpower. Today the US confronts serious problems at home, and is challenged by an extremely unsettled world --from Yemen to Egypt, from Israel to Latin America, to China, Pakistan, and of course, our never-ending wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, are all extreme and expensive challenges.
A direct conflict with Russia, and providing arms to Ukraine would mean this, can further add tremendous problems to the US. Today the US needs to confront unconventional enemies, adding a conventional one, and with nuclear weapons to boot is by no means in the interest of the United States. Victory over so many foes, no matter how great our country and how puny an enemy is in isolation, cannot be assured.
8
You may be right that the "superpower" idea is a bit obsolet - but the problem is that some just don't want to see that, and play a role that is to big for their little sneakers which they still see as big military boots.
I have to give it to Obama, that he seems to have seen it to some degree - that's why he does not go into wars himself:
He just starts them - and lets other pay for the damage - and have it, too.
I have to give it to Obama, that he seems to have seen it to some degree - that's why he does not go into wars himself:
He just starts them - and lets other pay for the damage - and have it, too.
1
What was the last war we won?
1
Defeat for whom? Why is a Russian borderland an arena for US victory or defeat? I am amazed by the number of Americans who feel we have a right to intervene anywhere in the world.
1
U.S. and Europe want to "end Ukraine fighting" by providing weapons to Ukraine. The more western officials repeat this absurdity, the more they sound like the trash one hears on the Russian state television. It is about time they said what they really want in Ukraine: they want to win. Period. Oxymorons like "defensive weapons" only insult one's intelligence.
21
They don't want to "win" (whatever that means in this situation), just to maintain the status quo. And given the amount of Russian weaponry currently in the hands of the pro-Russian fighters, this means giving weapons to the Ukrainians.
If the U.S. wanted to win, they would be supplying armor and artillery like the Russians have been doing for 6 months.
If the U.S. wanted to win, they would be supplying armor and artillery like the Russians have been doing for 6 months.
3
Putin is trying to buy the acceptance of France and Germany at the exclusion of all other states, Britain and USA included, by having the borders redefined to where he thinks they are today, rather than where the sovereign borders should be and were before his "expansion" program.
8
Who determines where sovereign borders "should be"?
Stupid is as stupid does. Russia's behavior will result in 20 or so of isolation which cannot be good for the Russian people. In the internet age, there is nothing to be gained by acting like bullies and fighting with every neighbor. Just will make them lepers to the rest of the world and poorer. Russia is all ego and no wisdom. Could be rich and respected like Germany now but chooses to behave like a prideful 19th century monarchy
15
The US is more isolated now than Russia...
Your idea has merit. I would certainly wish for it. But the realities of the ..now.. free Russian natural gas moving into the Ukraine in huge quantities, and the behavior of the corrupt Ukrainian Leadership of earlier years may, well have shut down the common sense solution for a long time. But also, the Ukraine has to pay its own way, and .... it can.
WE need to back off, and we need to support the Europeans in their efforts.
WE need to back off, and we need to support the Europeans in their efforts.
Russia is not isolated. They have China (not a great friend, but a powerful common enemy). They have Crimea - access to the oceans. And they have the power of the Internet and media working for them.
What video with the military? Volunteers who are not and were not professional soldiers there, them showed, these data are confirmed. So there are fighting not only volunteers from Russia and other countries, their small quantity. The bulk of this local residents. And from Bandera (official army and voluntary battalions) are fighting the US, Georgian, Lithuanian and other mercenaries and have seen it available on YouTube.
10
This is all a charade. The Obama regime and Congress have no desire for a peaceful settlement in Ukraine. Their banking and corporate masters on Wall Street and the same crew of cutthroats in Europe are determined to swallow Ukraine and then Russia. Putin knows this and cannot allow such a calamity to befall Russia. If the West really wants peace all they have to do is order their puppets in Kiev to withdraw all the Ukrainian armed forces from eastern Ukraine and declare a cease fire. then convene an all party peace conference, and grant complete internal autonomy to eastern Ukraine with no government military allowed there. Next declare Ukraine a neutral country, forswear any membership in the EU or NATO, and agree to free trade with Russia. This will give Russia a buffer state between her and her globalist enemies to the West, and all the death and destruction in Ukraine will end. Of course the Western banksters and crapitalists have no desire for peace in Ukraine. They want to use Ukraine as a stepping stone to eventually overthrow the legitimate, elected Russian government and installing their henchmen in Moscow as they have done in nearly every Western nation since World War II. Putin however is smart and a strong leader and a patriot. He is not going to turn Russia over to the tender mercies of the Western White Collar Mafia. Since Russia has a huge military and atomic weapons these billionaire bandits would do well to back out and back off of Ukraine and Russia.
17
What is this great powers thinking good for? The problem is that Putin has installed a huge kleptocracy in Russia. Even the vaunted oligarchs are only his puppets. There is no rule of law in Russia, Putin is the law. This is the main reason Russia can't keep up with modern times. So in compensation, a picture of a surrounded Russia is sold to the people.
2
Rice: I have rarely seen so much irrationality and conspiracy published in one letter. Congratulations, you win the Nobel Peace Prize nest year. Perhaps you will give the one million dollars to the folks in Eastern Ukraine?
You should read Richard M. Levine's comment that comes directly after yours. Makes imminent sense. You might also order George Friedman's book "Flashpoints" if you want to learn of the past history of Europe and its tangled webs. They are as byzantine as any in the Middle East.
I do agree, we should NOT give them more weapons. We SHOULD work for a genuine peace and see what might be agreed to. But, we have to have a partner on the other side, which I don't think is there.
We do not know Putin's ultimate goals, re-establishing Greater Russia seems to be one. Reminds me of the Greater Co-Prosperity Spheres of the Japanese before Pearl Harbor. Wonder what Baltic Country will be that region's Pearl Harbor. Not to mention China's current expansionist efforts in the SE Pacific ocean.
We live in interesting times.
You should read Richard M. Levine's comment that comes directly after yours. Makes imminent sense. You might also order George Friedman's book "Flashpoints" if you want to learn of the past history of Europe and its tangled webs. They are as byzantine as any in the Middle East.
I do agree, we should NOT give them more weapons. We SHOULD work for a genuine peace and see what might be agreed to. But, we have to have a partner on the other side, which I don't think is there.
We do not know Putin's ultimate goals, re-establishing Greater Russia seems to be one. Reminds me of the Greater Co-Prosperity Spheres of the Japanese before Pearl Harbor. Wonder what Baltic Country will be that region's Pearl Harbor. Not to mention China's current expansionist efforts in the SE Pacific ocean.
We live in interesting times.
1
Sorry but the leftist narrative here is not supported by the facts in Ukraine. Your anti-capitalism, which I respect, has unfortunately blinded you to Russian imperialism and the even worse, to the plight of the Ukrainian people, who had the stones to kick out their thuggish crook president Yanka. Unfortunately for them this thug was also a Russian puppet. The big bear has shown itself to be a big bully.
Do some homework on the Ukrainian conflict before you start chiming in.
Do some homework on the Ukrainian conflict before you start chiming in.
2
As Gorbachev and Russian expert Stephen Cohen have both recently pointed out, this conflict could all too easily escalate into a nuclear exchange between Russia and NATO.
The U.S. appears blind to that nightmare and as a consequence may unintentionally bring it about.
Wake up folks! Weapons will not solve this problem.
Uncommon sense is needed and seems to be sorely lacking.
Our nation should be reviewing the roots of this conflict and our contribution to this escalating series of errors.
The danger is palpable!
The U.S. appears blind to that nightmare and as a consequence may unintentionally bring it about.
Wake up folks! Weapons will not solve this problem.
Uncommon sense is needed and seems to be sorely lacking.
Our nation should be reviewing the roots of this conflict and our contribution to this escalating series of errors.
The danger is palpable!
21
The possibility of a nuclear exchange is vanishingly remote. Gorbachev and Cohen want Putin to succeed; holding up the nuclear bogey is a means to helping him achieve that success. I don't hold this against them; the Russian case is in fact stronger than most Americans will allow.
1
The specter of nuclear war is pure hysterics and only indicate that the like of Cohen and Gorbachev are running out of arguments.
1
"Unintentionally bring it about..." The US is everything but innocent and well-intended...
I say if the Russian sympathizers in Ukraine want to join Russia then let them. Why should the west, particularly the US, have any say in this? Why should the US be the final arbitrator in determining national sovereignty? It is time the US steps back and allows geopolitical alignments to follow their natural course. If the Us had allowed that to happen in 1954, when Vietnam voted for Ho to be president then there would not have been the Vietnam War. But instead the US had to prop up a spineless dictator in the South to preserve the venire of "democracy" against the communist North. The US faces a similar challenge in Ukraine, but unlike the 1960s, does not have the money nor the political will to succeed.
21
In order for the United States to pursue any policy regarding Ukraine, it first requires a far better understanding of this region of the world. Unfortunately very few people are informed about the situation in Ukraine. It is much more complicated than the information reported in the press or stated by our politicians. It first requires an understanding of what is Ukraine, what is its history, and who are the people who live there. What are their religions, what languages do they speak, what are their ethnic identities, and because of these factors what sense of common purpose exists and what animosities exist. The United States, without an in depth understanding of these factors, is once again blundering into a region where it has little understanding of the underlying issues and will not be able to contribute to a positive resolution of the issues in this region. Furthermore it is necessary to acquire the same in depth understanding of Russia and the former Soviet Union and what used to be called eastern Europe because all of these factors interact to create the tensions that abound in this part of the world. Such an understanding must not be one sided but must include the positions of all the peoples of this region.
25
Stalin and WW II are all the history you need to know about the Ukraine.
I hate to say so but sending arms to Kiev would only provide Putin with an excuse to openly dispatch Russian troops. What we need to do is to make it absolutely clear to Moscow that western Ukraine is now and forever part of Europe. If the Russians were to cross the Dneiper and attack Kiev they'd find NATO forces waiting for them on the other side. As for Donetsk, Luhansk, etc., it's best to give those people the autonomy they've demanded. Let Putin spend more of Russia's diminishing resources to keep his brethren in the East from freezing this winter.
19
Putin ha never mentioned any plan to cross the Dnepr or whatever.
He warned some big headed idiots who were bragging about "weak Russia", and told them in clear words about their capacity.
So, far he has nicely stayed back home.
- But I am sure, if Poroshenko - and especially his Prime Minister Yatseniuk who already has a lot of blood on his hands from bullets his party members sent from the Symphony Hall onto Maidan - let loose his 'Asov' and 'Aidar' militias, the ones with SS helmets from Nazi times, and the big massacre gets going - then, President Putin will act a he MUST, and as he did in Avkhazia and Ossetia, and protect people of his kin from ethnic cleansing and murder.
He warned some big headed idiots who were bragging about "weak Russia", and told them in clear words about their capacity.
So, far he has nicely stayed back home.
- But I am sure, if Poroshenko - and especially his Prime Minister Yatseniuk who already has a lot of blood on his hands from bullets his party members sent from the Symphony Hall onto Maidan - let loose his 'Asov' and 'Aidar' militias, the ones with SS helmets from Nazi times, and the big massacre gets going - then, President Putin will act a he MUST, and as he did in Avkhazia and Ossetia, and protect people of his kin from ethnic cleansing and murder.
1
You must understand that you have nothing to do on the Russian lands, to which of course is 80% of the territory of Ukraine. You definitely need to understand that in the first attempts to cross the boundaries of NATO and Ukraine to invade it, the response from Russia will be instantaneous. Thanks to Stalin and Beria, Russia has a powerful nuclear sword.
Putin does need any excuses. He is perfectly comfortable dispatching his troops in Ukraine right now since Russia controls hundreds of miles of border on the occupied territory. Giving the arms to Ukraine allows to back the Budapest Memorandum and gives some 50+ millions of Ukrainians a chance for survival.
2
Eastern Ukrainians' demand from the beginning of this dangerous and stupid Cold War exercise has been, and Moscow has supported from day one, federation (the USA is a federation, as is Canada, and most countries in the developed world), thus guaranteeing "autonomy" -- known in the USA as states' rights -- for Ukrainian provinces that feel an affinity for Russia.
Kiev is blasting their own people with artillery over these demands, and the USA is egging them on.
Kerry's statements about "invasion" being counter to "international law" are so amazingly cynical they would make me laugh if they were not getting people killed. The USA invaded Iraq, for crying out loud, on the basis of a pack of lies.
The USA is falling apart, literally: crumbling physically, socially, culturally, and politically, and all Washington can do is find yet another hornets' nest to stir for the benefit of brazen corporate criminals whose sole raison d'etre is to own every asset on the face of this planet.
Anyone who listens to Washington is a fool.
Kiev is blasting their own people with artillery over these demands, and the USA is egging them on.
Kerry's statements about "invasion" being counter to "international law" are so amazingly cynical they would make me laugh if they were not getting people killed. The USA invaded Iraq, for crying out loud, on the basis of a pack of lies.
The USA is falling apart, literally: crumbling physically, socially, culturally, and politically, and all Washington can do is find yet another hornets' nest to stir for the benefit of brazen corporate criminals whose sole raison d'etre is to own every asset on the face of this planet.
Anyone who listens to Washington is a fool.
85
The "federation" issue as presented by Putin with respect to Ukraine is not in the least like federal government structures of the US, Canada or any of the other countries in the developed world - it is more akin to allowing Texas & New Mexico to align themselves directly with Mexico bypassing entirely the US Federal government and their responsibilities under the US Constitution.
12
some 50 years ago someone said: Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
believe it or not these words mean something
believe it or not these words mean something
This is exact.
Why is banning Swift of the table? Does anyone know why? It seems banning russia from Swift is the appropriate next step. Certainly before sending offensive weapons to Ukraine, which would be step two or three in dealing with Putin.
11
Swift or sending deadly weaponry to Ukraine would cause Russian to make an overt war, devastating Ukraine back to stone age.
Then Ukraine would have even bigger losses than today and US/EU would not wage war on Russia to defend Ukraine.
Then Ukraine would have even bigger losses than today and US/EU would not wage war on Russia to defend Ukraine.
7
This is naive thinking that unfortunately is not too far from the thinking of the foreign policy elite in DC. You are going to do all that to the arguably #1 nuclear power in the word? We could not defeat Vietnam in the battlefield. We lost miserably. We could not change Cuba with economic sanctions and isolation. We just admitted it. And we will try to do both on Russia? I'd say that is the recipe for WW3.
2
History is repeating itself. Russia is Russia. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
17
The US is the US...forgot your history..?
Yes, history repeats itself. US actions are typical and are not surprising. The United States were and stayed colonial, dictatorial country .
2
I really thought they would be realistic enough to offer Putin a piece of the action. But what I just read, the peace plan is on the basis of the territorial integrity of Ukraine. I don't see how this is going to help. Maybe they're just beeing sneaky though. Giving Poroshenko the cover of not having sold out Ukraine, but giving the eastern part of Ukaine full autonomy. Anything less would be hopeless with Putin.
15
"Realistic" is a buzzword for appeasement. Putin will be on to other territories if this aggression works. Study your history. He has to be stopped NOW.
13
What a nonsense is that?
Where was Mr. Putin aggressive?
Georgia?
Georgia fired artillery shells at the villages of russian-kin people to kill or expel them. Putin sent troops to end that massacre.
But you call Putin the agressor.
The same in Eastern Ukraine:
Those people were threatened in their identity, culture, language - and voted to be independent. That's their right as much as it was the Kosovans'
But Kiev send troops and war
- and the freedom fighters defended themselves.
The only two reasons why Obama and Kerry have put all the US colonies in Europe on the march are:
I. Without the industry of the DonBass, Ukraine is not worth much.
2. Without Krym and East Ukraine, Russia is not totally enclsed and defenseless!
Where was Mr. Putin aggressive?
Georgia?
Georgia fired artillery shells at the villages of russian-kin people to kill or expel them. Putin sent troops to end that massacre.
But you call Putin the agressor.
The same in Eastern Ukraine:
Those people were threatened in their identity, culture, language - and voted to be independent. That's their right as much as it was the Kosovans'
But Kiev send troops and war
- and the freedom fighters defended themselves.
The only two reasons why Obama and Kerry have put all the US colonies in Europe on the march are:
I. Without the industry of the DonBass, Ukraine is not worth much.
2. Without Krym and East Ukraine, Russia is not totally enclsed and defenseless!
1
Perhaps you must be stopped NOW from speaking such nonsense... as well as the globalist bankster corporations...fortunately Putin is smart and irreducible...
1
The tit-for-tat progression of armed conflicts cannot be the best that national political leaders and their diplomats can put in place to manage the many war crises of our time.
Would such progression of conflicts ever occur if the diplomats and their political masters were the set-up inevitable casualties in wars that they create or encourage? Then, the most likely outcome would be spontaneous and routine war prevention.
But why can't the world strive for this new option for war prevention!!
So long as the political leaders can as conveniently deploy others (their soldiers) into war zones while their own personal securities are well in hand 'at home', the cycles of escalating violence as is in Ukraine, Syria and Iran would only continue.
For a change, the world (we) should be innovative enough to effect a change of attitude to help political leaders gain the perception of being the victims in wars that they desire to create or encourage.
(And nowadays, with the common usage of digital technologies for rapid information dissemination; and the new prevailing realities on the ground of wars becoming 'un-winnable' and frustrating for even the best equipped militaries; such rules can be easily established; and are also desirable.)
I most sincerely argue that this new approach, if effected would, without a doubt, put an end to war; including its verminous complications of ISIL, Al-Qaeda and Boko-haram.
Would such progression of conflicts ever occur if the diplomats and their political masters were the set-up inevitable casualties in wars that they create or encourage? Then, the most likely outcome would be spontaneous and routine war prevention.
But why can't the world strive for this new option for war prevention!!
So long as the political leaders can as conveniently deploy others (their soldiers) into war zones while their own personal securities are well in hand 'at home', the cycles of escalating violence as is in Ukraine, Syria and Iran would only continue.
For a change, the world (we) should be innovative enough to effect a change of attitude to help political leaders gain the perception of being the victims in wars that they desire to create or encourage.
(And nowadays, with the common usage of digital technologies for rapid information dissemination; and the new prevailing realities on the ground of wars becoming 'un-winnable' and frustrating for even the best equipped militaries; such rules can be easily established; and are also desirable.)
I most sincerely argue that this new approach, if effected would, without a doubt, put an end to war; including its verminous complications of ISIL, Al-Qaeda and Boko-haram.
3
Your proposal is short on practical details.
2
@Mart:
The practical details are indeed available.
The reasons for the 10 detailed measures needed to attain worldwide war prevention are thoroughly described in a 404-page book currently owned by many national political leaders (and also the UN Secretary General): their input is needed to activate the new concepts.
However, because they (the leaders) would be deprived their traditional capacity to create war, their initial opposition to the new concepts is as expected.
Hence, the need to inform their respective populations, who subsequently would encourage their leaders' into supporting the worldwide war preventive ideas.
At least a paper presentation is needed to accomplish this; not just an internet forum.
But, as credible as the well-thought-out ideas may be (derived over more than a 30-year period) absolute patience is needed with a skeptical world audience which unfortunately seems firmly strapped to the myth of the inevitability of wars!
The practical details are indeed available.
The reasons for the 10 detailed measures needed to attain worldwide war prevention are thoroughly described in a 404-page book currently owned by many national political leaders (and also the UN Secretary General): their input is needed to activate the new concepts.
However, because they (the leaders) would be deprived their traditional capacity to create war, their initial opposition to the new concepts is as expected.
Hence, the need to inform their respective populations, who subsequently would encourage their leaders' into supporting the worldwide war preventive ideas.
At least a paper presentation is needed to accomplish this; not just an internet forum.
But, as credible as the well-thought-out ideas may be (derived over more than a 30-year period) absolute patience is needed with a skeptical world audience which unfortunately seems firmly strapped to the myth of the inevitability of wars!
Why are Ms Merkel and Mr Hollande going into the camp of the offender? I have a feeling they will emerge with "peace in our time" document. Putin has shown he will agree to anything but will not adhere to it simply because there is no punishment for him by disregarding treaties. It is time for some backbone by European leaders and the US as well. At some point in time, the aggression must stop-and now is the time. There must not be cease-fire deals involving the militants in eastern Ukraine. They cannot be recognized as a legal entity-no matter what it takes. This is a cross roads time for Europe and the US as well. If Putin is not challenged and made to prove his lies, there is no hope for Ukraine. Have the western governments totally forgot about Crimea. Will they forget about Ukraine in the same way? I am apprehensive that European leaders are too fearful of Putin to do what is right- Putin has cast his future and he will not turn back-short of a catastrophic situation for Russia. I hate to bring up the "n" word but Putin's mind set may not rule it out.
12
Europeans are totally ineffective at acting timely to improve their world. They are best at killing each other, and are at it again; being ineffective at peace as usual (Ukraine, Greece,etc.) which will surely lead to a brutal war.
2
When you talk about "offenders", you should look at the US history,
from Vietnam and Cambodia to Grenada and Panama, and dictator-creations like Pinochet, and now supporting the murderers of the Maidan.
My God - nothing has more offended since Hitler than the USA.
from Vietnam and Cambodia to Grenada and Panama, and dictator-creations like Pinochet, and now supporting the murderers of the Maidan.
My God - nothing has more offended since Hitler than the USA.
2
European have been ineffective - since 1945 - because they have been kept in US servitude as colonies - lately called "poodles".
1
Snowden-conservatives believe Russia should, of course, be allowed to invade a neighbor. If you want to convince them of the necessity of aiding the Ukranian people with military hardware, it is best to leave Mr. Putin out of the debate, and just explain that crony-military-industrial-contractors could make a lot of money.
2
They are doing, you do not worry weapons of NATO and the United States enough in Ukraine , well as American and NATO soldiers.
No arms to Ukraine. Not because I think Russia should retake parts of Ukraine, but because we can't really help. The Russians have more arms in the neighborhood. (Probably the Ukrainians will sell some the arms the rebels, but that is a side issue.)
We will have trainers on the ground. Possible direct fire fight with Russians. Dangerous!
Arming Ukraine will not help them, but it will help Putin. He can justify his actions on grounds of American aggression. We would be strengthening his position at a time when the economy is hurting him. Arming Ukraine is a truly stupid idea.
We will have trainers on the ground. Possible direct fire fight with Russians. Dangerous!
Arming Ukraine will not help them, but it will help Putin. He can justify his actions on grounds of American aggression. We would be strengthening his position at a time when the economy is hurting him. Arming Ukraine is a truly stupid idea.
14
Poland, Germany have plenty - Germany is in the top 5 in arms exports to gangster regimes around the world. Lets not forget who supplied the nuclear reactor parts and know how to Saddam during the 1980's- Germany
Daniel,
We've had advisors on the ground from the start.
Though, I do not dispute your point.
We've had advisors on the ground from the start.
Though, I do not dispute your point.
It's time that we end this. Ramp up sanctions on the Russian economy. Keep oil prices low for at least the next 6 months. Install Patriot missiles in Eastern Europe.
Make the Russian economy bleed to death and get the Russian people upset enough (there are already protests in Moscow over an escalation in Ukraine when the Russian people realize their domestic problems are far more serious) where the Kremlin comes to its knees. Ease sanctions and remove missiles on the contingent that all Russian forces and separatists are out of Ukraine, and Moscow pledges to not support them. Do not arm the Ukrainians at this point. Use aggressive diplomacy to end Moscow's ridiculous attempt at asserting itself by bullying everyone else. Getting rid of Putin is a bonus.
Make the Russian economy bleed to death and get the Russian people upset enough (there are already protests in Moscow over an escalation in Ukraine when the Russian people realize their domestic problems are far more serious) where the Kremlin comes to its knees. Ease sanctions and remove missiles on the contingent that all Russian forces and separatists are out of Ukraine, and Moscow pledges to not support them. Do not arm the Ukrainians at this point. Use aggressive diplomacy to end Moscow's ridiculous attempt at asserting itself by bullying everyone else. Getting rid of Putin is a bonus.
7
This is a reasonable idea in theory, but it will not work because to implement it requires tight tough cooperation across most of the major nations of the world, and in particular Germany, France, and China.
It can't be implemented in a timely manner because of distinct interests of those nations, and simply because the diplomatic process is too cumbersome and slow to arrive at action timely.
The correct choice is to heavily and rapidly arm the Ukraine with offensive as well as defensive weapons -- and to give them air cover if that's needed. Time to fish or cut bait.
It can't be implemented in a timely manner because of distinct interests of those nations, and simply because the diplomatic process is too cumbersome and slow to arrive at action timely.
The correct choice is to heavily and rapidly arm the Ukraine with offensive as well as defensive weapons -- and to give them air cover if that's needed. Time to fish or cut bait.
2
Alex, I understand where you are coming from. Two comments:
"Keep oil prices low for at least the next 6 months."
This is not something that the United States controls.
As for making the Russian economy bleed to death: Igor Shuvalov, First Deputy Prime Minister in Dmitry Medvedev's Cabinet, said last week at Davos that when their leader is under attack, Russians will rally around him (which they already are) and will even go hungry if circumstances require. (Some Russians enjoyed posting photos of Shuvalov's mansion outside Moscow and of his homes in Austria and England, where Shuvalov would also be "going hungry.")
"Keep oil prices low for at least the next 6 months."
This is not something that the United States controls.
As for making the Russian economy bleed to death: Igor Shuvalov, First Deputy Prime Minister in Dmitry Medvedev's Cabinet, said last week at Davos that when their leader is under attack, Russians will rally around him (which they already are) and will even go hungry if circumstances require. (Some Russians enjoyed posting photos of Shuvalov's mansion outside Moscow and of his homes in Austria and England, where Shuvalov would also be "going hungry.")
1
Before to approve it come to Russia and see how live there, you will be surprised that this is different from your submissions. While in Russia, everything is fine. And on account of these rankings, anyone who studied economics is clear that the rating Russia is specially very much underestimated, very low, and rating America is overstated. Just look and compare items - the national debt and reserves, and everything clear.
If you want to change someone's aggressive behavior -- particularly the aggressive behavior of a totalitarian tytrant like Putin -- you have to put him at risk. There's no other way. Every time Kiev's brave soldiers make some progress in reclaiming the Ukrainian territory seized by Russia, Russia overwhelms them with fresh armored assaults and devastating rocket fire. Javelin shoulder-fired missiles stop tanks. Advanced counter battery radar pinpoints rocket emplacments. These weapons would put Putin at risk. Give Kiev's soldiers a fighting chance. Defeat of the Ukrainian people by the tyrant Putin would be a catastrophe for freedom and democracy.
15
brave ukranian soldiers? they are a joke.They have been running back to Kiev to intimidate their brave Minister of Defence who was a worthless policeman
1
Why are US generals articulating government policy here, wiz, Breedlove advocates arms for Ukraine. His job is to do what the elected civilian government orders, nothing more.
Nato should have been dissolved at the demise of the USSR, its raison d'etre having been eliminated. Instead, the US has aggressively expanded Nato to the Russian frontier; Russia's concerns are reasonable and legitimate. They will not/ cannot back down. Sending arms will simply.prolong the killing and misery. The only beneficiaries are the military contractors.
War with Russia in not in the intetests of the people of the US. On the contrary, Russia can be a useful ally in the war against islam.
Nato should have been dissolved at the demise of the USSR, its raison d'etre having been eliminated. Instead, the US has aggressively expanded Nato to the Russian frontier; Russia's concerns are reasonable and legitimate. They will not/ cannot back down. Sending arms will simply.prolong the killing and misery. The only beneficiaries are the military contractors.
War with Russia in not in the intetests of the people of the US. On the contrary, Russia can be a useful ally in the war against islam.
25
Generals are supposed to advice the administration on matters of war. It is also good if a little of that advice leaks from time to time to the press, and thereby to the people. Experts shouldn't run the country, but they should be listened to.
4
The alternative opinion about the need for NATO (with or without any spine) i plainly obvious. Russia's concerns are neither reasonable nor legitimate unless you are living in the 1980's with Henry Kissinger as your Sec of State. Russia under Putin has no desire to actually act as a 21st century country. They are acting like it is the Breznev era and it is fine to send Russian tanks into Czechoslovakia or Hungary to "keep them in line." This is NOT 1980. Every serious country needs to grow up and start acting like it is the 21st century.
2
kindly show proof these generals are doing so.. more rants and made up lies by the Putin gang.
I am ethnic Russian, who grew up in post soviet Lithuania, and who lives in Norway and has western values (like the freedom of speech). Therefore i am familiar with how different the understanding of this entire conflict is. West respects the country borders, while Russians believe they are protecting their own people. This size of a rebellion is not something that started and continued just because 'Putin commanded'. However rebellion was and is supported by Russia, ideas of the cold war in my opinion. Like Lithuania was also offered Kalliningrad region, but government of that time was not as stupid to take it no questions asked. Because it had no ethnic Lithuanians there, only Russians. Ukraine took Crimea, and now paying the price. Knowing Russian values and culture - it is a half militarized society that has been at war for thousands of years. It is not Japan, a small island that US managed to loose all navy to, not Iran, nor North Korea, nor Afghanistan, nor Vietnam. If you think Russia is weak because of the economy - that is a very Western thinking. Russia has always given priority to military and science, not the economy. US cannot win this war, and if you seriously provoke it there most likely will be no humans left alive. US had no war in their territory for a long time. With new military improvements it would change completely. If someone is curious about the outcome if US intervenes or thinks war is romantic - watch videos from that region, its not Hollywood.
28
I think the conflict has started and escalated because the Russians feel that the West cannot win. The simple fact is that Russians have repeatedly failed to see their economic vulnerabilities by focusing on mostly military and scientific developments. And history just keeps on repeating itself.
5
My dear sir, if you are suggesting that Putin is absolutely stupid enough to lob a missile directly into the US if the US sends weapons to the Ukraine then you have lost any sense of credibility you may have gained from your direct experience having lived in Lithuania. Even Putin is not that insane.
2
Russia lost the last cold war. They lost because their economy could no longer support it. The alternative to resisting Putin's expansion is to whet his appetite for more territorial demands. So Putin sees that with threats of nuclear war the west backs down he is only encouraged to take the rest of Ukraine and then why not Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania? After all that would push back NATO's influence and protect mother Russia no? Didn't you learn anything from the history of the events leading up to WW2?
14
Hysterical - the party that started the problem (the "West", ie, the US) is now "pushing for a solution". Perhaps not creating the problem. Y backing a coup - and then worsening the problem by encouraging the new client regime to take on the Russian Federation - would have been prudent. Ounce of prevention, etc
24
False narrative.
Ukrainians just want to decide their own future.
Ukrainians just want to decide their own future.
15
East Ukrainians too - their own future independent of Victoria Nuland's decisions.
1
William Gill, Esq.
Fair enough. The Ukrainians certainly deserve to decide their own future. But are they entitled to decide the future on behalf of the people of east Ukraine, many of whom are not exactly Ukrainian?
Let's not overlook that, going into 2014, polls consistently established that east Ukrainians preferred to join the Russian led customs union, not the EU.
Fair enough. The Ukrainians certainly deserve to decide their own future. But are they entitled to decide the future on behalf of the people of east Ukraine, many of whom are not exactly Ukrainian?
Let's not overlook that, going into 2014, polls consistently established that east Ukrainians preferred to join the Russian led customs union, not the EU.
Unfortunately, either the revolutionary billionaires of Ukraine who made all their money off baksheesh from Russian oil traversing the Ukraine to European consumers, and paid a sufficient number of Ukrainians with their last funds to fight and die for their revolution, need the help of the Western military to stop old Russian claims to their newly claimed territory. A nation in transition, but which cannot actually choose - it needs their new boyfriend to pay off their old one, for their change in loyalty.
The problem is that they owe their old boyfriend a lot, and the new boyfriend is also poor, so the result is they need their new boyfriend to beat up their old one. The West faces the option, if it wants Ukraine, to either pay him off or beat him up - both options of which are too expensive to the waning Western economy. The new boyfriend may just walk away, leaving the Ukraine without a beau.
And the Ukrainians may be left with a Chocolate Factory to support them.
The problem is that they owe their old boyfriend a lot, and the new boyfriend is also poor, so the result is they need their new boyfriend to beat up their old one. The West faces the option, if it wants Ukraine, to either pay him off or beat him up - both options of which are too expensive to the waning Western economy. The new boyfriend may just walk away, leaving the Ukraine without a beau.
And the Ukrainians may be left with a Chocolate Factory to support them.
11
It is really incredible how easy it was to take money out of the system. Not one million or 10 milions, but hundereds of millions of dollars each time. Those are the rulers now. They have the majority, but not everywhere, and it doesnt matter for the wish of self-determination of some peoplew in the East anyway. After the Georgia war with the arrogant NATO reaction it is the second time that I am ashamed for being "protected" by NATO.
1
Fritz, you should be ashamed of your ignorance. NATO is not in the business of "protecting" non-member countries, at least, ostensibly.
The election process in Ukraine was working. A pro-EU, Western backed president had already taken power in a 2004 "Orange revolution", the same Yanukovich at the time stepped down following the protests. And was given power back again in completely free and fair elections next term.
In such a case the decision by US and EU leaders to support a cue was devious opportunism at best. A rather dirty shot to the Russians who just won them over giving money when EU(or US) were offering nothing.
At this point Russia is attempting to protect it's perceived interest any way they can , as there was no respect or fair-play even when it's their closest neighbor of the utmost strategic importance.
It was definitely not in their interest to have a failed state in a state of civil war on their border, but preferable to seeing NATO troops in spitting distance of Moscow.
Joining Crimea was a popular move for both the people in RF and Crimea, going to a full-scale military conflict or joining any more territory wouldn't be, neither is it in Russia's interest, unless it is the last resort.
So who actually benefited from the current situation?
Russia has a hostile neighbor, economy in turmoils, no longer able to lead aggressive foreign policy as with Syria. EU countries have been pushed back to US-Atlantic alliance, no longer able to build closer economic , and possibly political as a result, relations with Russia. Both EU and Russian economies suffering, while US is untouched.
In such a case the decision by US and EU leaders to support a cue was devious opportunism at best. A rather dirty shot to the Russians who just won them over giving money when EU(or US) were offering nothing.
At this point Russia is attempting to protect it's perceived interest any way they can , as there was no respect or fair-play even when it's their closest neighbor of the utmost strategic importance.
It was definitely not in their interest to have a failed state in a state of civil war on their border, but preferable to seeing NATO troops in spitting distance of Moscow.
Joining Crimea was a popular move for both the people in RF and Crimea, going to a full-scale military conflict or joining any more territory wouldn't be, neither is it in Russia's interest, unless it is the last resort.
So who actually benefited from the current situation?
Russia has a hostile neighbor, economy in turmoils, no longer able to lead aggressive foreign policy as with Syria. EU countries have been pushed back to US-Atlantic alliance, no longer able to build closer economic , and possibly political as a result, relations with Russia. Both EU and Russian economies suffering, while US is untouched.
28
It was not a coup, it was a popular uprising occasioned by the decision of Yanukovich to initiated the use of deadly force against the Maidan. Violence escalated when it defended itself and Yanukovich fled after his supported evaporated, to a large extent because of the EU-brokered deal that led his security forces to believe he was going to throw them over. Russia clearly perceives it to be more in its interest to have a failed state then one not controlled by one of their clients.
13
I love Russian apologists. Russia made this bed, now let her lie in it.
4
"It was not a coup",
Bill B,
thou doth protest too much...
It was a coup funded by Western oriented oligarchs and US & European energy interests, such as Hunter Biden's employer.
Bill B,
thou doth protest too much...
It was a coup funded by Western oriented oligarchs and US & European energy interests, such as Hunter Biden's employer.
1
“Our choice is a peaceful solution, but Russia needs to make its choices,” Mr. Kerry said.
Yes, the choice is a peaceful solution: back off, Russia, so Kiev can shell Lugansk and Donetsk out of existence without any interference. The choice of Ukraine to continue its aggression against its own citizens in the East is not to be questioned or disputed. These meetings are a farce.
Yes, the choice is a peaceful solution: back off, Russia, so Kiev can shell Lugansk and Donetsk out of existence without any interference. The choice of Ukraine to continue its aggression against its own citizens in the East is not to be questioned or disputed. These meetings are a farce.
34
So the independent nation of Ukraine, which the Russians agreed to, and all the nations of the world should submit to the Russian invasion because why?
13
Yes and those tanks and rockets Russia keeps pouring into Ukraine are just what? Peace dignitaries. Perhaps if Russia pulled its troops out of another country innocent people wouldn't be dying in the name of a dictator.
14
The propaganda narrative of Ukrainian forces deliberately attacking Donetsk and Luhansk is fraudulent. This is part of the gross Russian disinformation campaign designed to malign the Ukrainian government and support Russia-backed fighters who are extending their war further into Ukraine.
6
The cold war was no sooner over than some of those who "protect our national security" could not wait to start what is perceived by many people (like a couple of billion in the world) as a war against Islam, which gets uglier every day. Now what? Gorbachev was promised that NATO would not expand eastward. Due to the choice of people in some countries that is now happening, which is problematical enough. But we also have people who want to build missile stations on the borders of Russia - for defensive purposes only, of course, to defend Europe against Iran! Putin is just a Russian version of what we have way too many of right here. I am personally thankful for an administration which is at least partly sane and can only hope that Russia has enough sense not to go ballistic.
6
If the west is interested in defusing Ukraine, a good way to start might be by repudiating the confidentiality agreement with Ukraine over the shoot-down of that Malaysian airplane and to make public what is becoming increasingly clear -- Ukrainians, not separatists, shot the plane down. If the west is interested in defusing the Ukraine crisis, another useful step would be careful investigation of the circumstances of the coup -- in particularly the snipers shooting both police and protesters from the headquarters of the revolution in Kiev. And an especially useful action would be to force the Ukrainian clients to stop artillery shots at cities in Ukraine they control (like Mariapol) and do not control (like Donetsk). Yet another useful action would be to stop supporting Ukrainian offensives, like the one near the Donetsk airport in the first half of January and then crying foul when separatists successfully counterattack, as in the second half of January continuing to the present day.
9
'what is becoming increasingly clear -- Ukrainians, not separatists, shot the plane down'
Has it become clear? Did they shoot it down because they thought it was carrying Russian troops or weapons from somewhere in the western part of Europe and was going to land in eastern Ukraine and deliver the goods to the rebels?
I guess anything is possible these days - the old days when logic had a place in the world are gone for ever.
Has it become clear? Did they shoot it down because they thought it was carrying Russian troops or weapons from somewhere in the western part of Europe and was going to land in eastern Ukraine and deliver the goods to the rebels?
I guess anything is possible these days - the old days when logic had a place in the world are gone for ever.
That's absolute nonsense, if not outright disinformation. All the evidence points to the Russian-backed separatists having shot down the plane, likely on on accident thinking it was a Ukrainian military plane.
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Ukrainian military was involved in the downing of the Malaysian flight.
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Ukrainian military was involved in the downing of the Malaysian flight.
3
the rebel leader admitted that they shot down the plane and they bragged about it on social media.. how quickly you forget and want to rewrite history.
2
The Vietnam war started with supplying the arms first and from there it continue to escalate as Russia up the antenna. We fought that war in a far away land where the war for the enemy was for its own existence. Russia will be fighting this war at its own borders with everything it got because it will become a war for Russia for its own existence. We most likely will be fighting this war alone . like Vietnam War. because other powers will take back seat with token support.
We have been playing Unilateral Cold War with Russia and China by encircling them with military alliances with surrounding countries. Many of these countries are corrupt and dictatorial with suspicious characters which may become problematic and involve us in conflicts which may not be of our liking or in our national interests.
We have been playing Unilateral Cold War with Russia and China by encircling them with military alliances with surrounding countries. Many of these countries are corrupt and dictatorial with suspicious characters which may become problematic and involve us in conflicts which may not be of our liking or in our national interests.
12
I'm not fan of American adventurism, but I have a hard time buying into this "poor, helpless Russia" narrative. Russia's military budget is $90.5 billion per year. Ukraine's military budget is $5.5 billion. I have a hard time believing that the sale of some defensive weapons constitutes any kind of genuine threat to Russia. What it might threaten is Russia's hegemony over its former empire.
16
Putin fears the Ukrainians obtaining improved anti-tank and anti-SAM weapons which would lead to the loss of Russian militant advantages over the Ukrainian government forces and greater Russian irregular/regular deaths. If the SAM launchers could be taken out, then Ukrainian jets would once again provide close air support of their troops, sieges like that at Debaltseve would be quickly broken. As things now stand, the militants themselves will soon be receiving air support by Russian jets that they will claim to be Ukrainian aircraft that was seized earlier.
10
Excellent. Obviously a few key weapons would have a huge effect. I don't think it's a matter of comparing national military budgets.
Ukraine could buy those weapons on the black market but hasn't the money to pay even at market rates therefore they are asking for arms from the US and Europe.
2
France and Germany going to Putin with a peace plan is flattering to him but a total waste of time. Putin is confident in what he is doing in prosecuting the war in eastern Ukraine; the West continues to spins its wheels. Even the recent spate of sanctions are pathetic and demonstrate nothing but weakness on the part of the West. How about legislating something with teeth, like discontinuing Russia's use of the SWIFT international banking mechanism, freezing Putin's own stolen wealth (yes, he's a billionaire several times over with money known to be stashed in the west); closing down all of the corporate levels of business that continue. The West simply dithers; Putin moves forward with his design - which is now clearly and fundamentally at odds with western values and hopes for democratic reform.
11
'freezing Putin's own stolen wealth (yes, he's a billionaire several times over with money known to be stashed in the west)'
Any idea where it might be stashed - is it in the US or is it in the Swiss banks? You seem to indicate you know.
I know the Swiss are in general loathe to disclose who is stashing stolen or black money in their banks - they say they never ask questions and thus have no idea what is stolen and what is black - and they have no reason or responsibility to disclose who their depositors are.
But if it is Putin's money, won't they make an exception? Let's get it from them and confiscate it and distribute it among the poor and middle class of America. That will teach him a lesson on where not to stash his ill-gotten billions!
Any idea where it might be stashed - is it in the US or is it in the Swiss banks? You seem to indicate you know.
I know the Swiss are in general loathe to disclose who is stashing stolen or black money in their banks - they say they never ask questions and thus have no idea what is stolen and what is black - and they have no reason or responsibility to disclose who their depositors are.
But if it is Putin's money, won't they make an exception? Let's get it from them and confiscate it and distribute it among the poor and middle class of America. That will teach him a lesson on where not to stash his ill-gotten billions!
2
To me, it's amazing how we always find ourselves charging into civil wars. Vietnam started out the same way. Iraq2 started out the same way after having resisted the temptation to punch the hornet's nest in Iraq1.
Regardless of what we do, the ethnic Russian areas will secede. Supplying arms to Ukraine will be met with closure of the Northern Distribution Network that is our way out of Afghanistan. It will also enrage Russia into proliferating man portable anti aircraft missiles in addition to open Russian intervention in the eastern half of Ukraine.
FWIW, I'm not willing to sacrifice all or anything for Ukraine. Let Europe do it.
Regardless of what we do, the ethnic Russian areas will secede. Supplying arms to Ukraine will be met with closure of the Northern Distribution Network that is our way out of Afghanistan. It will also enrage Russia into proliferating man portable anti aircraft missiles in addition to open Russian intervention in the eastern half of Ukraine.
FWIW, I'm not willing to sacrifice all or anything for Ukraine. Let Europe do it.
19
"To me, it's amazing how we always find ourselves charging into civil wars. "
Easy now Jack, we only find ourselves in the ones we started.
Easy now Jack, we only find ourselves in the ones we started.
7
You think this is new? France put massive investment into one well-known rebellion -- the American Revolution. Spending all that money was one of the significant causes of a depression in France that led to the French Revolution.
Most wars by minor powers, insurgencies, and rebellions have to have outside support to succeed, usually lots of outside support.
Most wars by minor powers, insurgencies, and rebellions have to have outside support to succeed, usually lots of outside support.
1
Bitter experience has shown that Putin's pledges and "peacemaking" are just another extension of warfare. Putin and the separatists that he controls have persistently violated the Minsk ceasefire protocols. Putin must be judged solely on his actions.
Russia now has annexed chunks of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.
Only be arming Ukraine can the world signal to Putin that it is serious about the need to respect Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity.
Violent, unilateral change to international borders, as displayed by Russia, if left unchecked, will lead to further conflict and war in Europe
Russia now has annexed chunks of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine.
Only be arming Ukraine can the world signal to Putin that it is serious about the need to respect Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity.
Violent, unilateral change to international borders, as displayed by Russia, if left unchecked, will lead to further conflict and war in Europe
21
I woke up today thinking --- we need to spend more U.S. taxpayer dollars funding proxy wars around the globe.
31
Yeah
why not for once let Europe deal with the Ukraine & Russia? Why do we have to be involved? Instead of playing the control freak card, give Germany & France (& UK) an opportunity to be heros.
why not for once let Europe deal with the Ukraine & Russia? Why do we have to be involved? Instead of playing the control freak card, give Germany & France (& UK) an opportunity to be heros.
6
Because that America and Europe have started this conflict.
Of course this is so typical of America, at first will kindle fire, and then say that it is not to blame, and in general any relationship do not have.
Of course this is so typical of America, at first will kindle fire, and then say that it is not to blame, and in general any relationship do not have.
1
This all seems very familiar. The Great Powers meet and carve up a lesser country. It seems to me international law is still just the law of the jungle.
4
So, the Administration is considering sending "Defensive Arms" to Ukraine while trying to disarm Americans. Yeah, that's but one example why I have no confidence in our Government and no longer vote for the lesser of two evils because that always leaves us with evil anyway.
9
It is encouraging to see that the US is keeping to its side of the bargain when it signed the Budapest Memorandum. International laws condemn invasion of one country by another. If Ukraine is supplied with more modern weapons it may have a better chance at repelling the Russian proxy attacks against its cities such as Debaltseve. An extended war is not going to increase Putin's popularity and surely everybody realizes that death of civilians is not in anybody's interests.
An independent police state of Donetsk and Luhansk are really ridiculous ideas and will not benefit any of the people living in these areas.
The Kyiv government has already discussed granting limited autonomy to Eastern Ukraine and allowing Russian as a second official language as well as permitting economic ties with Russia for this region.
An independent police state of Donetsk and Luhansk are really ridiculous ideas and will not benefit any of the people living in these areas.
The Kyiv government has already discussed granting limited autonomy to Eastern Ukraine and allowing Russian as a second official language as well as permitting economic ties with Russia for this region.
46
So sad to see this shallow post made it to the "NYT Picks". International laws? Any supporter of US foreign policy should try to stay away from the word "international law" . US destroyed whatever was left of international law by invading the sovereign country of Iraq. Remind us, what gave US right to invade, kill bomb Iraq? What gave US right, under international law, to bomb Serbia/ The list goes on and on...
You are wrong on the Budapest Memorandum. It was only valid with an elected government, the minute the elected government was tossed in a coup it was void. The rest of your post is a furtherance of the nonsense you open with.
You people with your focus on "Putin's popularity" need to wake up and realize lives are at stake, not popularity.
You people with your focus on "Putin's popularity" need to wake up and realize lives are at stake, not popularity.
1
Poroshenko speake and spoke about Unitary UK not autonomy not federation. authority of Uk does not want allow to official language....
This two debilism side coul not know to speak? to be more flexible.
Yes, America could help in this conflict but not with weapons/ Only with new ideas new grain brains new thoughts.
Tell to Poroshenko that he meet with Pushilin'Zacharchenko shake hands ', drink vodka and speake speak speak, not bomb, not kill
This two debilism side coul not know to speak? to be more flexible.
Yes, America could help in this conflict but not with weapons/ Only with new ideas new grain brains new thoughts.
Tell to Poroshenko that he meet with Pushilin'Zacharchenko shake hands ', drink vodka and speake speak speak, not bomb, not kill
Both US and Germany have deep, and first hand experience in an identical situation: x-Yugoslavia. They did not push for autonomy and taxes there, they redraw borders without any hesitation. The phrase "territorial integrity" was not even in the vocabulary while they were taking Yugoslavia apart. On top of that they bombed Serbia to make sure that the separatists get their own country. If they had any decency and integrity they would apply the same standard to x-Ukraine. We all know that they do not. That is why these attempts by Germany and France will have NO results. Russia will not listen. This will end in the siege of Kiev within two months. Mark my words. At that point a split into two countries will be obvious. If the West wanted to save lives and avoid bring the world to the brink of WW3 it would sit down with all parties and start implementing x-Yugoslavia solution that THEY invented: redrow borders!
8
Not even remotely close to true. Serbian atrocities and mass murders were at the heart of the conflict as you well know. Not to say that Croatians were innocent either, but Serbian separatists even turned Milosevic off. He eventually ditched them at Dayton. The West was so reluctant to intervene in Yugoslavia that about 200,000 people were killed by the time the war was over. It took American leadership to stop the slaughter.
10
Well by taking over ex-Yugolasvia dominated markets in the east Europe West was making enormous profits needed for European Union expansion. They supported same kind of extremists in ex-Yugoslavia they are now supporting in Ukraine. Their main goal was escalation of the conflict. Then they also made a good money selling arms to the same newly formed regimes. These corrupted radical nationalist eventually brought each of their newly formed republics into debt slavery and total insignificance on the international stage. They effectively erased all the progress that was made in ex Yugoslavia and cheaply and cowardly sold their countries for a few dollars.
6
Your narrative is dated, JF. In the last couple of days both Serbia and Croatia were acquitted of charges of genocide by jurors ICC, Hague.
Secretary Kerry is the one who should be going to Moscow to talk over Russia's reasonable peace plan. Instead, Big John advocates for sending arms to Kiev's bankrupt regime, from which thousands are fleeing rather than be drafted into Ukraine's broken Army, currently headed by a neo-nazi thug installed by the US-backed coup leaders.
15
Putin claims that the Ukrainian gov't and West are fascists- yet- he forgot about the money he and his supporters loaned the far right/fascist French FN party.. that he allied with them, and they with him.. just read their speeches all public of course... but facts being facts even delusional people will ignore them, instead believing propaganda and lies based on paranoia.. reminds me of the anti vaxxers in this country.
16
Looks like that French party is not bad at all and only is against illegal immigration that only brings crime and misery to the citizens. Sticking uneducated poor immigrants in middle of well off educated citizens may be a noble idea but in reality does not work. Their supporters will deny it but it is the truth.
3
Putin is also universally adored by the far right political figures in Europe, such as Marine Le Pen.
6
300 miles from Moscow? You really believe Putin is going to let you ship in military hardware? Putin has made it very clear that the former eastern bloc and the spin-offs of the former USSR are not to be militarized as any potential threat to Russia. Russia is very ethnically bound and has not forgotten the Nazis. Yet, even Israeli publications note the rise of neo-Nazi groups from Sweden to Greece gaining political strength. I can see why Putin is going to take down Europe if he has to, and Putin is not afraid of the U.S. This is a crisis. Back off and let diplomacy prevail.
18
Putin is not some god that must be appeased by sacrificing whatever weak nation he chooses to devour.
He is simply more determined to push his agenda than so far anyone has been willing to challenge. It's high time for the European leadership to rise to the occasion and put a stop to Putin's expansionist militarism.
So far the sanctions that the West has imposed have done next to nothing to contain Putin's aggression. It's time to give the Ukrainians th defensive military capabilities they need to put a stop to the separatists' military offensive and force them back the bargaining table.
He is simply more determined to push his agenda than so far anyone has been willing to challenge. It's high time for the European leadership to rise to the occasion and put a stop to Putin's expansionist militarism.
So far the sanctions that the West has imposed have done next to nothing to contain Putin's aggression. It's time to give the Ukrainians th defensive military capabilities they need to put a stop to the separatists' military offensive and force them back the bargaining table.
1
The Baltic states joined NATO, and Russia could not do a thing. Unless Putin dares to kill 50+ million of Ukrainians, he stands no chance. That means, he stands no chance period.
The future of the entire world is being decided tonight in Kiev as you read this. Western powers including Germany, France and US in collaboration with Ukraine made a "retreat" peace proposal to Putin. It will be delivered by Merkel and Hollande to Moscow on Friday. The peace proposal includes the condition to leave and give away the territorial gains already made in the past year by Russians in Ukraine to Putin in exchange for signing Russian non-aggression pact. Unfortunately, it appears Putin will not agree to the condition of the pact (early assessment) thus the beginning of a full scale war in Europe is inevitable, possibly within a week. The general mobilization order for Russian military was signed today in Kremlin by Putin, essentially preparing all Russian armed forces to a full scale war in Europe. Ukraine is at the front line of this war and US at the very least must help Ukrainian army with weapons and equipment to help defending Ukraine form ongoing Russian invasion. Many Ukrainian soldiers already lost their lives in this war, mainly due to lack of sophisticated weaponry and equipment. Obama must act now and fast before Russia goes any further!
6
There is no such drama there.
This is just another plot of DC neocon military industrial proteges to involve US in yet another conflict and keep ramping up our defense budget.
In reality, it is very simple...
This is just another plot of DC neocon military industrial proteges to involve US in yet another conflict and keep ramping up our defense budget.
In reality, it is very simple...
14
There are no "Russian" territorial gains in Ukraine - so using them as a bargaining chip will be as productive and fair as mortgaging your neighbor's house. And this is exactly what Frau Merkel is doing
2
50+ millions of Ukrainians will never agree to any "territorial gains" achieved by Russian aggression. That's a lot of people. And there's Baltic states, Poland, and Georgia on top of that, all countries suffered from the Russian aggression before. No chance. But simply cutting Russia off from SWIFT would do wonders, believe me.
I believe the thinking is all wrong on Ukraine. NATO is no part of the answer, and is actually at the root of the problem. In fact, disbanding NATO will solve far more problems sooner than any other plan being mentioned.
It does little good to say this however, because so much "this is the way we always have done it" thinking prevails, time and time again. Getting foreign policy wonks out of their box is nigh impossible.
It does little good to say this however, because so much "this is the way we always have done it" thinking prevails, time and time again. Getting foreign policy wonks out of their box is nigh impossible.
18
I wonder how much European money, the big money, is looking for safe shores at this point of "sliding into war environment" in Europe? Where is the safe shore these days?
Is it the USA by chance?
This war is very good for the US - everyone in Europe gets weaker while the USA is gaining some side benefits. So if the USA interests is a preference then more weapons to Ukraine along with some extra sparks towards more conflict should keep the US on the roll.
Is it the USA by chance?
This war is very good for the US - everyone in Europe gets weaker while the USA is gaining some side benefits. So if the USA interests is a preference then more weapons to Ukraine along with some extra sparks towards more conflict should keep the US on the roll.
7
Why then the US invested so much into the post-war Germany? Your resoning does not play well with history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan
'along with their demands, to undermine the push for tougher sanctions in Europe.' As every European knows who has been paying attention , the election of Syriza in Greece destroyed any pretense of European unity on Russian sanctions. The first diplomat received by the new Greek government was the Russian ambassador. And its the failure of using US political quislings within the EU that has led to these empty threats about supplying more weapons to Kyiv. Russia had the cards from the start the US had a collection of deranged Frat Boys in its State Department.
6
Ukrainians were not fooled by the Germans to have their independence and join the Germans to the onslaught on Soviet Union as Crimean Tartars did. I do not think they are going to be fooled by NATO now.
1
These efforts, though noble, are exercises in futility while Russia, one of the two parties at war in Ukraine, will not admit what is plainly obvious to the rest of the world - Russia is creating violence and is driving the conflict in Ukraine with with troops, command and control leadership, weapons, advanced Russian weapons, munitions and money.
The efforts need to be made but it is time to play a different game.
Putin see's Western legalism and multilateral negotiations as weakness while the Kremlin arms and creates a conflict that they have only increased over time.
Ukraine needs proper and capable military support to defend their country and until Russia has too many "Cargo 200" shipments to hide, there will be no such thing as a successful negotiation of peace with Russia over Ukraine.
The efforts need to be made but it is time to play a different game.
Putin see's Western legalism and multilateral negotiations as weakness while the Kremlin arms and creates a conflict that they have only increased over time.
Ukraine needs proper and capable military support to defend their country and until Russia has too many "Cargo 200" shipments to hide, there will be no such thing as a successful negotiation of peace with Russia over Ukraine.
10
The US made the decision during the Clinton administration to deny that a Russian Sphere of influence existed by bombing Belgrade and expanding NATO to Poland. This was the root of the current renewal of the Cold War, and the Bush abnegation of the ABM Treaty simply poured fuel on the smouldering embers of Russian resentment.
The Obama State Department led by the usual cast of neocons facilitated by treasure and moral support the Kiev Putsch, which has lit the powder keg in Ukraine. George Kennan predicted this outcome during the Clinton Administration. No one listened.
Now Chomsky and Kissinger have warned us once again where this is going, but no one is going to listen. The War Mongers own the floor, and they are the members of both parties which constitute the War Party in America. There is no party in opposition, and when one considers that both Israel and Saudi Arabia are attempting to manipulate the United States into fighting their wars, the future is indeed bleak. Sadly, the party which has the broadest appeal to the most ignorant among us are running the show.
The Obama State Department led by the usual cast of neocons facilitated by treasure and moral support the Kiev Putsch, which has lit the powder keg in Ukraine. George Kennan predicted this outcome during the Clinton Administration. No one listened.
Now Chomsky and Kissinger have warned us once again where this is going, but no one is going to listen. The War Mongers own the floor, and they are the members of both parties which constitute the War Party in America. There is no party in opposition, and when one considers that both Israel and Saudi Arabia are attempting to manipulate the United States into fighting their wars, the future is indeed bleak. Sadly, the party which has the broadest appeal to the most ignorant among us are running the show.
15
I agree with most of what you say but not about the current administration. Obama has shown more sense and restrain than most of them
Were Obama serious about deviating from the neocon agenda he would not have allowed Victoria Nuland at State, who is an extension of the Kagan/Podhoretz/Kristol faction of Neo Trotskyites intelligentsia, to warp American foreign policy to the degree that the State Department, and not the CIA have become the active agents of juntas in places like Kiev.
The Iran nuclear threat is a false story concocted by Obama's predecessor, but Obama has never spoken the truth about it in order to short circuit the War Party in Congress which wants to take on Persia.
He may know that the war on terror is a farce, and that the invasion of Iraq was a clear war crime of stupendous proportions, but he has still classified all of the seamy details and facilitated the myths of evangelical democracy.
If he had wanted to step away from the Goldman Sachs Faction of the Democrat party he could have returned us to the politics of the New Deal by prosecuting the bankers, but he didn't.
Obama is just another neoliberal shill, and the neocons are the big stick of neoliberalism. He has wielded that stick every time that he has had a choice to do otherwise.
He can say what he wants, and maybe he can win back his base by talking up real American Values, but it is deeds which count. Obama is very short on actions, and this new Cold War has been ignited by the policy choices of his administration.
The Iran nuclear threat is a false story concocted by Obama's predecessor, but Obama has never spoken the truth about it in order to short circuit the War Party in Congress which wants to take on Persia.
He may know that the war on terror is a farce, and that the invasion of Iraq was a clear war crime of stupendous proportions, but he has still classified all of the seamy details and facilitated the myths of evangelical democracy.
If he had wanted to step away from the Goldman Sachs Faction of the Democrat party he could have returned us to the politics of the New Deal by prosecuting the bankers, but he didn't.
Obama is just another neoliberal shill, and the neocons are the big stick of neoliberalism. He has wielded that stick every time that he has had a choice to do otherwise.
He can say what he wants, and maybe he can win back his base by talking up real American Values, but it is deeds which count. Obama is very short on actions, and this new Cold War has been ignited by the policy choices of his administration.
1
It's sad that Chompsky needs to intellectually couple himself to Kissenger in order for anyone to listen. What goes around comes around.
Arms and advisors to the Ukraine war. What possibly could go wrong?
19
"Arms and advisors to the Ukraine war. What possibly could go wrong?"
Everything. Putin will quickly run out of Russian tanks and cannon meat in East Ukraine. The shelling of Ukraine's cities will seize. The borders will be restored. Students will return to schools, miners will return to mines. All kinds of wrongs.
Everything. Putin will quickly run out of Russian tanks and cannon meat in East Ukraine. The shelling of Ukraine's cities will seize. The borders will be restored. Students will return to schools, miners will return to mines. All kinds of wrongs.
I don't see peace descending here. I see Putin using any justification he can to destroy the Ukraine and recreate the Soviet Union. I also think he's going to succeed because no one wants to fight a third world war. Pardon the pessimism but this is reminding me of how Hitler swallowed Europe up a country at a time with the kind help of Neville Chamberlain and every other country's weariness after WWI. I hope I'm dead wrong.
8
In the end the world got war anyway didn't it? I see no utility to allowing him to swallow Ukraine, besides delaying the inevitable.
1
The U.S. isn't trying to bring peace. It's trying to bring war. The French and the Germans, on the other hand, *are* trying to bring peace. That's why Hollande and Merkel are traveling to Moscow, while Kerry is stopping in Kiev.
9
abo - sheer nonsense the Eu is doing what it is doing for fear of Russia and their loss of even more commerce and nat gas supplies.. they dug their own grave and Putin baited them for 15 years. crafty con man this Putin and a crazy one at that.. just ask those political prisoners in Russia.
10
Peace-loving France completed sales of two warships to Russia even after the Russians invaded and occupied Crimea. Yet, if the US merely entertains the idea of selling defensive weapons to Ukraine, it's war-mongering?
8
Putin is going for broke. He has made the calculation that the US and EU are too self-absorbed with domestic concerns, and are wishing for the tooth fairy of half-hearted sanctions to make Putin unpopular at home. They are also hoping that Russia can play a positive role with Iran and Syria and so should not get unduly offended. However, the truth is that his jingoistic and messianic policies are playing well at home, if only because he controls the media. So he continues to enjoy the sort of popularity American presidents can only dream about. His kleptocrat friends are still doing very well, thank you because the West is supine and the old KGB apparatus protects its own.
So what's a vacillating West to do? Recognize that these probes by Putin are in deadly earnest and, if not stopped, he will continue to try to rebuild the old Soviet Union on the backs of the Poles, Byelorussians and Baltic republics. We need to do whatever it takes to draw a red line (however abused the term and execution have become and send sufficient aid to roll back the Russian army.
So what's a vacillating West to do? Recognize that these probes by Putin are in deadly earnest and, if not stopped, he will continue to try to rebuild the old Soviet Union on the backs of the Poles, Byelorussians and Baltic republics. We need to do whatever it takes to draw a red line (however abused the term and execution have become and send sufficient aid to roll back the Russian army.
12
'if not stopped, he will continue to try to rebuild the old Soviet Union on the backs of the Poles, Byelorussians and Baltic republics'
Ye, this is true - there is a leaked memo to that effect floating around in the cyberspace. May be I saw it in Facebook. Or was it a tweet from Putin - I forget.
Ye, this is true - there is a leaked memo to that effect floating around in the cyberspace. May be I saw it in Facebook. Or was it a tweet from Putin - I forget.
1
I think we should never cross the Atlantic and neither the Mediterranean Sea in our foreign policy unless there is a direct treat to us as it was during the WWI and WWII.
10
That "threat to us" has been redefined by the U.S. and its Nato lackeys
3
were you born in 1900? sounds like it- like the isolationists during WW1 and WW2.. that isolationism led to those wars being so massive.
7
There is no way of being isolationist nowadays. But having our military all over the world and meddling in every possible conflict, and creating conflicts, even when there is none, such as the invasion of Iraq, is certainly as unwise as being as being isolationist. This the other extreme and we could call it interventionism.
Let's end the fiction of "Russian-backed separatists." It's increasingly the Russian military doing the fighting, not anyone supposedly from eastern Ukraine. And, let's stop pretending that there's a way to a negotiated end to the conflict, especially one that's going to result in Ukraine's territorial integrity. There's nothing yet that's been sufficient to stop Putin from continuing to take Ukrainian territory. More talk certainly isn't going to make any difference.
12
If this is so, where are the Russian soldiers who were POWs?
The only ones who are pushing for solution are Europeans. US just wanna send more weapons to spread more corpses and make things so much worse.
I think this strong involvement of US into Ukraina will lead to a nuclear confrontation. Putin already ordered mobilization of reservists across the country. While American residents are busy with super ball and snow storms, the war is getting closer and closer. Plus, bloodthirsty psychopaths like Mccain and Menendez would love to throw us all into demise.
I think this strong involvement of US into Ukraina will lead to a nuclear confrontation. Putin already ordered mobilization of reservists across the country. While American residents are busy with super ball and snow storms, the war is getting closer and closer. Plus, bloodthirsty psychopaths like Mccain and Menendez would love to throw us all into demise.
14
i'm glad you left out Putin the instigator and persistent bully of this whole mess.
8
Lou, Putin did not instigate this mess. This mess leaped into being when the Ukrainians threw Yanukovich out of the country, against the wishes of half the Ukrainians, and plunged the country into civil war. Only after the war had been going on did Putin get involved.
I know you hate him beyond all reason but try to be slightly objective sometimes, it helps make these events less personally disturbing.
I know you hate him beyond all reason but try to be slightly objective sometimes, it helps make these events less personally disturbing.
1
Sure vova, just let old peaceful Vlad take the rest of Ukraine. After all his hands aren't bloody and he hasn't sent any weapons or spread any corpses in this whole affair has he? Must be nice to be so blind.
1
We should be very, very careful about our further actions in Ukraine. Russia is already arming the ethnic Russian rebels with everything up to tanks and SAMs Russia has also been sending in "volunteer" Russian troops on vacation and Russian officers as "advisors". Putin says that Russia is already at war, albeit limited war, with the United States because of the sanctions, sanctions that have failed.
What is the predictable result of arming Ukraine to allow them to “defend” themselves successfully against the rebels? To the Russians would mean allowing the Ukrainians to defeat the Russian rebels or allow a military stalemate to develop. The answer is obvious. If we give the Ukrainians weapons and they begin to win against the rebels, then the predictable result will be a Russian attack, just as they did in Crimea. They already have overwhelmingly superior forces and logistics pre-positioned practicing large scale military exercises for such an attack.
Then what to we plan to do?
Providing weapons to Ukraine is highly likely to trigger a much larger war with Russia.
Are we willing to wage war, risking nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine? Are our allies? If not then we should increase our efforts to provide sufficient military strength to NATOs eastern European members to deter further Russian aggression while counseling Ukraine to allow the rebels to separate peacefully. We need to avoid stumbling into WWIII while at the same time containing Russia.
What is the predictable result of arming Ukraine to allow them to “defend” themselves successfully against the rebels? To the Russians would mean allowing the Ukrainians to defeat the Russian rebels or allow a military stalemate to develop. The answer is obvious. If we give the Ukrainians weapons and they begin to win against the rebels, then the predictable result will be a Russian attack, just as they did in Crimea. They already have overwhelmingly superior forces and logistics pre-positioned practicing large scale military exercises for such an attack.
Then what to we plan to do?
Providing weapons to Ukraine is highly likely to trigger a much larger war with Russia.
Are we willing to wage war, risking nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine? Are our allies? If not then we should increase our efforts to provide sufficient military strength to NATOs eastern European members to deter further Russian aggression while counseling Ukraine to allow the rebels to separate peacefully. We need to avoid stumbling into WWIII while at the same time containing Russia.
5
Give them an inch and they take a yard. Give them a yard and they'll take a mile. If Russia wants Eastern Ukraine the UN or international observers should be sent in and the people should be allowed to vote for secesion under supervision to prevent another land grab from ocurring.
1
Its sad indeed to see Ukrainians suffering. Sending arms to Ukrainian forces to defend. Can USA or NATO or today’s world afford another showdown? Medalling in Russian backyard, will not break their will to stand up against West and US, they have proven it time and again. West want to teach a lesson to Mr. Putin, but the ordinary Russian people are paying the price. It’s Putin’s support for Syrian regime that has translated into showdown in Ukraine. Does it justifies dislodging Russians from Middle East and will allow it, certainly not. Similarly, if Russia wants to dislodge American’s fro Germany or Diego Garcia, American’s would not accept it. Lets be sane and wise here, for USA and its allies, only way forward Is to respect Russian presence in Middle East, west can not have it all. If EU policy makers and US don’t learn it now, history may repeat itself, not in terms of heavy losses of economy after Afghan fiasco inn eighties. Not all EU countries can sustain cold war or hot war conditions in present times; it will not only jeopardize American long term strategic interests globally but will also bring EU on its knees. Oil price war, or war in Ukraine will further exacerbate already weak economy and recovery in USA.
3
Reading some of the comments of the NYT times readers I'm very surprised at their isolationist and naive attitudes. Why should US be involved in a conflict in Europe? Because European security is essential for US security, because US is obliged to defend NATO countries, which came under threat from Russia. I understand that recent military involvements may have made people weary. But they should understand that US as a global power exists, first of all, because of its alliance with Europe. If US cannot stop Putin, this power will significantly diminish and chaotic forces in the world will win. Additionally US guaranteed Ukrainian territorial integrity. Is US signature and obligation not worth anything anymore?
24
Dear Angelica,
Ukraine is not a NATO member, nor a U.S. ally, we have no obligation to defend them. European security will be just fine even if Ukraine is absorbed back into Russia, which seems unlikely. Putin doesn't seem to want to own Ukraine or he'd be in full control by now. And there's no guarantee of territorial integrity, for any nation; what you own is what you can hold onto. So overall, we've no obligations at all in this matter, and as for a humanitarian cause, it pales in comparison to Syria, Libya, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Haiti, and a dozen other nations.
Ukraine is not a NATO member, nor a U.S. ally, we have no obligation to defend them. European security will be just fine even if Ukraine is absorbed back into Russia, which seems unlikely. Putin doesn't seem to want to own Ukraine or he'd be in full control by now. And there's no guarantee of territorial integrity, for any nation; what you own is what you can hold onto. So overall, we've no obligations at all in this matter, and as for a humanitarian cause, it pales in comparison to Syria, Libya, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Haiti, and a dozen other nations.
5
@Angelica
I would be careful to not confuse Russian "visitors" posing as Americans for actual Americans.
I would be careful to not confuse Russian "visitors" posing as Americans for actual Americans.
6
@Angelica:
To my knowledge, Ukraine is not part of NATO. And no NATO countries are under threat from Russia. I would argue that it is Russia who is under threat from NATO encroaching on her.
To my knowledge, Ukraine is not part of NATO. And no NATO countries are under threat from Russia. I would argue that it is Russia who is under threat from NATO encroaching on her.
8
Ironically, while Russia says Crimea and the DNR were just "exercising their right to self determination", it just introduced new legislation to increase the maximum punishment from three to four years imprisonment for "public calls for actions violating the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation." The legislation would include all social networks and comment boards. No "self-determination" for areas of Russia, but I guess Chechnya already knew that.
19
Of the three issues the US want to discuss with the Germans and the French, only economic sanctions is relevant. Unfortunately, the economic sanctions would not work and is proven time and again. So, why are we wasting time talking with the Germans and the French? We need to spend more time talking to Russians to bring a cease fire and find a solution.
2
Russians think they already found the solution, fighting USA on Ukrainian soil :(
Am I the only one who thinks what is happening in Nigeria is far worst than eastern Ukraine?
3
The big difference is that in Ukraine, Russia is supporting, causing, and actively abetting the Russian separatists, while in Nigeria, nobody but Boko Haram is helping Boko Haram. Probably on a personal level each Boko Haram fighter is more immoral and more psychotic than the Russian ultra-nationalists (and Russian soldiers on "vacation") fighting in Ukraine, but the geopolitical effects of one conflict are far worse than the other.
9
No Cleo, but in Nigeria it is a terrorist organization which has to, and been challenged by local African governments. When local countries have the where with all and the equipment to take action on there own, it is not the same as a relatively small nation is confronting the largest military in the world.
4
why do you think it's worst? Just because NY Times does not describe horrors of either Donets or Lugansk as well as Nigeria does not make it worst, it's exactly the same!
2
And Ukraine burns and dies, as we "weigh". Is there any doubt that The Ukrainians are no match for "bulldog" Russian Putin ?
It is about time the Europeans, NATO, and especially the U.S takes some action.
It is about time the Europeans, NATO, and especially the U.S takes some action.
18
"some action."
What action?
What action?
3
As Russia is arming and supporting the Donetsk rebels, the west must do so for the Ukrainian people.
A supply of strategic arms to offset the Russian supplied ones is essential. Carefully placed ground forces and a supply of military advisers would go a long way to blunt the Russian aggression.
A supply of strategic arms to offset the Russian supplied ones is essential. Carefully placed ground forces and a supply of military advisers would go a long way to blunt the Russian aggression.
Putin has started Cold War 2.0, and this is but the latest aggression.
He will not stop unless/until stopped!
He will not stop unless/until stopped!
11
The longer this war continues, the harder it will be to stop. It is becoming self-sustaining: people fight to avenge their friends and relatives who have died in the conflict. The devastation, suffering and hate are increasing by the day.
One reason why this war will be very hard to stop is that people driving US policy are not willing to compromise with Russia. There is a joke making the rounds in Eastern Ukraine and Russia now: the US will fight Russia in Ukraine to the last Ukrainian. I think there is some truth to that. Stopping the war on terms that give Russia anything undermines the existing US-centered world order. From the standpoint of people in the State Department, that must be prevented at all costs. We will probably see this in the US response to the initiative of Merkel and Hollande mentioned in this article and to other similar proposals.
The Ukrainian people needs to wake up and see that the US is pursuing its own interests in this conflict and is willing to escalate it rather than make a workable deal with Russia.
One reason why this war will be very hard to stop is that people driving US policy are not willing to compromise with Russia. There is a joke making the rounds in Eastern Ukraine and Russia now: the US will fight Russia in Ukraine to the last Ukrainian. I think there is some truth to that. Stopping the war on terms that give Russia anything undermines the existing US-centered world order. From the standpoint of people in the State Department, that must be prevented at all costs. We will probably see this in the US response to the initiative of Merkel and Hollande mentioned in this article and to other similar proposals.
The Ukrainian people needs to wake up and see that the US is pursuing its own interests in this conflict and is willing to escalate it rather than make a workable deal with Russia.
18
@AK
The Ukrainian conflict is not and cannot become "self-sustaining" when it only exists with Russian supplied weapons, troops, leadership, money and munitions.
The Ukrainian conflict is not and cannot become "self-sustaining" when it only exists with Russian supplied weapons, troops, leadership, money and munitions.
6
@ Jeff Pardun
Your point is well taken. But you can also turn this argument around and say that if, instead of sending tanks, the Ukrainian government sent diplomats to Donetsk last spring there would be no war.
Your point is well taken. But you can also turn this argument around and say that if, instead of sending tanks, the Ukrainian government sent diplomats to Donetsk last spring there would be no war.
2
The U.S. is not at war with Russia - Russia is at war with Ukraine - simply because the Putin regime wants it so.
Ukraine has a right to defend itself with defensive battlefield military technology that can help deter the current Russian offensive.
Ukraine has a right to defend itself with defensive battlefield military technology that can help deter the current Russian offensive.
1
Putin has become the new whipping boy, the new Saddam Hussein, the piñata beaten by the US media onto the march to a new proxy war with the big bad wolf, Russia.
Gorbachev is right - we have started a new Cold War encircling our old nemesis with military bases and missiles and vilifying Russia for any resistance. We have encouraged a coup in Ukraine, a coup that is wildly anti-Russian, and deeply hostile to the welfare of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine who have lived there for centuries.
The separatists are not fighting in Kiev, but the Ukrainian military is fighting and killing ethnic Russians. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have accused the Ukrainian military of committing war crimes.
In perhaps a careless unguarded moment, President Obama admitted that the CIA was directly involved in the ouster of the former democratically elected government in Kiev. Following crippling sanctions, which only hurt the poor (remember Cuba, Iraq), the Obama administration - fearing a back lash from war hawk Republicans, has promised to send military weapons to Kiev which would surely only intensify the conflict.
America should back off and let Merkel (who speaks Russian) and Putin work out the details of a peaceful settlement – a federal system giving far more autonomy to eastern Ukraine allowing it to preserve its language and culture. The agreement should include a provision that Ukraine would maintain its independence from Russia and NATO.
Gorbachev is right - we have started a new Cold War encircling our old nemesis with military bases and missiles and vilifying Russia for any resistance. We have encouraged a coup in Ukraine, a coup that is wildly anti-Russian, and deeply hostile to the welfare of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine who have lived there for centuries.
The separatists are not fighting in Kiev, but the Ukrainian military is fighting and killing ethnic Russians. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have accused the Ukrainian military of committing war crimes.
In perhaps a careless unguarded moment, President Obama admitted that the CIA was directly involved in the ouster of the former democratically elected government in Kiev. Following crippling sanctions, which only hurt the poor (remember Cuba, Iraq), the Obama administration - fearing a back lash from war hawk Republicans, has promised to send military weapons to Kiev which would surely only intensify the conflict.
America should back off and let Merkel (who speaks Russian) and Putin work out the details of a peaceful settlement – a federal system giving far more autonomy to eastern Ukraine allowing it to preserve its language and culture. The agreement should include a provision that Ukraine would maintain its independence from Russia and NATO.
34
@jag
Obama admitted nothing of the kind. He did mention a transition deal that had been brokered before Yanukovich fled, which likely refers to the February 21 deal. He said neither "coup" nor "CIA", that is just your own interpolation.
HRW has also accused the rebels of committing war crimes.
This is a war started by Russian-sponsred armed separatists.
Obama admitted nothing of the kind. He did mention a transition deal that had been brokered before Yanukovich fled, which likely refers to the February 21 deal. He said neither "coup" nor "CIA", that is just your own interpolation.
HRW has also accused the rebels of committing war crimes.
This is a war started by Russian-sponsred armed separatists.
11
NO, this is a war started by those who planned, paid, and organized the coup while offering cookies to the people in Maidan. Those people should be turn over to The Hague to be prosecuted. They are responsible for the deaths of over 5,000 people in Ukraine.
6
@Ainhoa
NO, there was no coup. The Maidan wasn't planned, paid or organized by Nuland (the cookie lady). The responsibility for the deaths lies mainly with Russia which sponsored a rebellion.
NO, there was no coup. The Maidan wasn't planned, paid or organized by Nuland (the cookie lady). The responsibility for the deaths lies mainly with Russia which sponsored a rebellion.
2
Obama and EU allies are contemplating too little, too late. Putin is playing them for fools.
7
Are we back to the Repub Bromance?
2
Мне очень интересно читать статьи NYTimes и интересны мнения простых американских граждан. Приятно понимать, что многие из вас не считают нас страной агрессором. Мы цивилизованная страна с проблемами в экономике, но мы не злой дикий медведь.
9
Translation by Google:
"I am very interested to read the article NYTimes and interesting views of ordinary American citizens. It's nice to realize that many of you do not consider us as an aggressor country. We are a civilized country with problems in the economy, but we are not evil wild bear."
Thank you. I hope so.
Thank you.
"I am very interested to read the article NYTimes and interesting views of ordinary American citizens. It's nice to realize that many of you do not consider us as an aggressor country. We are a civilized country with problems in the economy, but we are not evil wild bear."
Thank you. I hope so.
Thank you.
1
I am very interested to read an article in the NYTimes and interesting views of ordinary American citizens. Nice to realize that many of you don't consider us an aggressor country. We are a civilized country with problems in the economy, but we're not angry wild bear.
Thank you Turget Dincer for the effort.
And my response to Dmitry:
Americans on the whole are reasonable people, as are the Russian people. We Americans know that the vast majority of Russians want nothing other than a peaceful life, in a safe community for themselves and their family. We all have our dreams and aspirations and we are all benefitted when we all can work together to achieve these results. No, we do not have bad feelings for the Russian people. I hope that this message does come through despite the fact that some comments are really hard on Putin. Like some of my own, I'll say.
Peace be with you, and peace be with the very good people of Russia. I tell you that this American would wish one day that we embrace each other as true citizens of Planet Earth.
And my response to Dmitry:
Americans on the whole are reasonable people, as are the Russian people. We Americans know that the vast majority of Russians want nothing other than a peaceful life, in a safe community for themselves and their family. We all have our dreams and aspirations and we are all benefitted when we all can work together to achieve these results. No, we do not have bad feelings for the Russian people. I hope that this message does come through despite the fact that some comments are really hard on Putin. Like some of my own, I'll say.
Peace be with you, and peace be with the very good people of Russia. I tell you that this American would wish one day that we embrace each other as true citizens of Planet Earth.
3
Why should the people of eastern Ukraine be forced against their will to be represented by a government that effectively disenfranchised them? When the east was part of Ukraine they won the election fair and square and elected Yanukovitch. This did not sit well with the people in the west and with the help of the US they fomented a coup. Now the new "winners" (Molotov-cocktail crowd) want the east to comply. Please explain how this makes any sense? It has nothing to do with Russia. Any one zwith eyes to see can look at the videos of what happened.
22
Actually, it has everything to do with Russia. The rebellion was fomented by Russians (Igor Strelkov, the initial leader of the 'rebels' is a Russian from Russia); Russian TV actively portrayed all Western Ukrainians as Nazis; now, Russian tanks, flying Russian flags, manned with Russians are fighting in Ukraine. To say this is about an independence battle by poor disenfranchised Easterners is to ignore the rabid bear in the room.
11
Sophia, long before Strelkov there was Maidan. Are you saying the US had nothing to do with Maidan? Make me laugh.
We avoided a war with the USSR when it collapsed in 1991 by a miracle. Now it appears it will be unavoidable.
Nothing will stop Putin's determination to seize back the lands that once belonged to the Russian Empire before 1918. Ukraine first, then the Baltics and Poland and the rest will be last. There will be no all out nuclear war but Eastern Europe will be devastated and Putin will be victorious with the help of Merkel and her pathetic Germans.
Nothing will stop Putin's determination to seize back the lands that once belonged to the Russian Empire before 1918. Ukraine first, then the Baltics and Poland and the rest will be last. There will be no all out nuclear war but Eastern Europe will be devastated and Putin will be victorious with the help of Merkel and her pathetic Germans.
3
"We avoided a war with the USSR when it collapsed in 1991 by a miracle."
That's bunk. You are not the only person to have lived through that time. Russia couldn't even fill a beer mug at that time. They were on their knees. And RayGun did nothing too. We all remember that.
Putin's real enemy is himself. That is the person that will ultimately destroy him. And he is certainly on his way to that end.
That's bunk. You are not the only person to have lived through that time. Russia couldn't even fill a beer mug at that time. They were on their knees. And RayGun did nothing too. We all remember that.
Putin's real enemy is himself. That is the person that will ultimately destroy him. And he is certainly on his way to that end.
7
Putin needs to be stopped but arming Ukraine would only prompt him to send in overwhelming force. Threaten total economic sanctions if he pushes farther militarily. Get the conflict frozen. Push reform and economic development in Ukraine. Time will work for Ukraine & against Putin.
4
"Time will work for Ukraine & against Putin."
Let us just say that time will work against SOMEBODY.
Personally I think that by sending Kerry and Biden to support an illegal government in Kiev (not Poroshenko but the government just after the coup) Obama opened a Pandora's box. It might bring harm to Putin, to Russia, to Ukraine, who knows. But it certainly is not going to bring good to anyone.
If Obama had more decency he would return the Nobel prize for peace. He is not a bad president, compared say to Bush, but he is very far from the angel we were all hoping for. This whole mess has been engineered by Obama's inability to stand back and let Europe take care of Europe's problems.
Let us just say that time will work against SOMEBODY.
Personally I think that by sending Kerry and Biden to support an illegal government in Kiev (not Poroshenko but the government just after the coup) Obama opened a Pandora's box. It might bring harm to Putin, to Russia, to Ukraine, who knows. But it certainly is not going to bring good to anyone.
If Obama had more decency he would return the Nobel prize for peace. He is not a bad president, compared say to Bush, but he is very far from the angel we were all hoping for. This whole mess has been engineered by Obama's inability to stand back and let Europe take care of Europe's problems.
14
Sorry. the EU won't commit economic suicide to support oligarchs and neo-Nazis in Kiev..
7
Obama must fire John Kerry. So far he has not performed for the job he was assigned. He couldn't sell Ketchup so how could he negotiate in world affairs.
1
Ukraine is only 300 miles from Moscow. If we send arms to Ukraine, Russia will send more arms to the separatists, and the war will escalate. Instead, the West should declare Ukraine to be a neutral buffer state between the EU and Russia and outside of NATO.
22
Russia invaded Ukraine so what's the point with that 300miles from Moscow?? Ukraine want join EU not Russian ailing economy...
12
Ukraine as a neutral buffer state has been Putin's stance all along… maniacs in Washington prefer regime change in Moscow.. and will risk nuclear war to pursue that goal.
7
Why should Ukraine be Russia's buffer? What did it do to deserve the fate? Are we saying France and the Czech Republic should be Germany's buffers? Are we saying that Finland should be Sweden's buffer? What about North Korea? Are they China's buffer. This fabricated discourse about buffers only occurs about Ukraine, yet countries all over the world seem to get by quite well without buffer states around them.
7
Sadly, despite the hopes and efforts of many people over many years, both east and west, it appears that the Cold War is not over yet. Diplomatic efforts now need to be redoubled to put a more durable peace in place.
Key diplomatic objectives are:
1. immediate ceasefire in place in Ukraine followed by phased demilitarization under much enlarged OSCE monitoring;
2. long term, formal NATO and Russian guarantee of Ukrainian borders, independence, and sovereignty with no foreign military presence or alliance on a basis like Finland.
To achieve lasting results with the current Russian government, diplomacy needs to be backed by a parallel course of real world plans and actions to make very clear that western democracies will not be duped by more 'big lies' and more 'slow motion' invasions. This means that western democracies now need to provide Ukraine both financial and military means to defend itself from these invasions while diplomacy proceeds. Further, it means that the US and its NATO allies now must very publicly consider and plan re-deployment of all US military forces withdrawn from NATO bases over the last 25 years.
If no lasting peaceful settlement is achieved for Ukraine in a reasonable time, then the US and NATO allies should continue to support an independent, sovereign Ukraine outside the NATO alliance and start this US re-deployment to assure the defense of all eastern NATO members from more such invasions by current Russian government.
Key diplomatic objectives are:
1. immediate ceasefire in place in Ukraine followed by phased demilitarization under much enlarged OSCE monitoring;
2. long term, formal NATO and Russian guarantee of Ukrainian borders, independence, and sovereignty with no foreign military presence or alliance on a basis like Finland.
To achieve lasting results with the current Russian government, diplomacy needs to be backed by a parallel course of real world plans and actions to make very clear that western democracies will not be duped by more 'big lies' and more 'slow motion' invasions. This means that western democracies now need to provide Ukraine both financial and military means to defend itself from these invasions while diplomacy proceeds. Further, it means that the US and its NATO allies now must very publicly consider and plan re-deployment of all US military forces withdrawn from NATO bases over the last 25 years.
If no lasting peaceful settlement is achieved for Ukraine in a reasonable time, then the US and NATO allies should continue to support an independent, sovereign Ukraine outside the NATO alliance and start this US re-deployment to assure the defense of all eastern NATO members from more such invasions by current Russian government.
5
It has already been clearly demonstrated that Russia cannot be trusted, and does not abide by its agreements. Crimea was not the beginning of a civil war, it was outright illegal aggression. Ukraine did not elect Yanukovych to rob them of their resources and wealth, as well as ignore the needs and wishes of the majority of people. More sanctions, please.
1
You're all here criticize President of Russia mr.Putin.
For what?
Russia is not lead war in Iraq.
Russia is not sponsored coups in North
Africa (Libya, Tunisia, Egypt)
All the fault of mr.Putin is that he allows to be independent.
To have his own views and opinions.
It annoys you.
According to statistics, 85% of Russians support Putin and that he does.
Because it protects the sovereignty and national interests of Russia.
It annoys you. Because you are imposed sanctions on Russia...
For what?
Russia is not lead war in Iraq.
Russia is not sponsored coups in North
Africa (Libya, Tunisia, Egypt)
All the fault of mr.Putin is that he allows to be independent.
To have his own views and opinions.
It annoys you.
According to statistics, 85% of Russians support Putin and that he does.
Because it protects the sovereignty and national interests of Russia.
It annoys you. Because you are imposed sanctions on Russia...
17
Syria- Vasily- you guys are long time sponsors of that butcher Assad.. quashed all anti-communist uprisings in Eastern Europe.. sponsored and armed Cuba's Castro, Angola via Cuba, N. Korea, N.Vietnam, Egypt and iraq during the 1950', 60's. Viewing the world with an AntiAmerican eye only has left you blind.
10
Oh! so speaks those who armed ISIS and al qaeda directly and through proxies to bring down Assad. The guys who murderd a million Iraquis over a pack of lies.
The guys who torture and imprison innocent people without trial or charge over a decade.
The guys who torture and imprison innocent people without trial or charge over a decade.
Sending arms in to the Ukraine government would be a huge mistake, just as Russia sending arms to the rebels is. We can't counter their mistake by doing the same thing, we have to get them to stop fueling the fire through economic pressure.
Basically if we send in arms, those are going to be used to kill more people, which will inflame the war even more, which will get Russia to send more in to counter our armaments. Then Russia will send more troops, then we will make the colossal mistake of sending in troops, then our troops will fight eachother, then Russia and we will engage in nuclear war and eliminate civilization in the northern hemisphere at minimum. This is not an acceptable outcome.
The way to get Ukraine to stop fighting itself is pretty obvious, as in most of these divided nations, simply divide them. Do what was done successfully in Yugoslavia, lay down the lines roughly acceptable to both sides, enlist Russia's help, assure them that the east will be tacitly under their control, and enforce a cease fire.
Basically if we send in arms, those are going to be used to kill more people, which will inflame the war even more, which will get Russia to send more in to counter our armaments. Then Russia will send more troops, then we will make the colossal mistake of sending in troops, then our troops will fight eachother, then Russia and we will engage in nuclear war and eliminate civilization in the northern hemisphere at minimum. This is not an acceptable outcome.
The way to get Ukraine to stop fighting itself is pretty obvious, as in most of these divided nations, simply divide them. Do what was done successfully in Yugoslavia, lay down the lines roughly acceptable to both sides, enlist Russia's help, assure them that the east will be tacitly under their control, and enforce a cease fire.
14
no other choice otherwise Ukraine is toast.. being out gunned because of Putin's arming of his proxies. They won't stop until they reach the Black Sea and Odessa. The legal Ukrainian gov't requested the arms, they need them, and justifiably so.
12
I thought Neville Chamberlain was dead. Feeding him pieces of Ukraine will not satisfy Putin, anymore than serving up Poland satisfied Hitler. Putin is using this aggression to fan the flames of Greater Russian nationalism, to deflect attention from the collapse of the ruble, and blame the United States for all of Russia's problems.
19
Guys, if Russia really wanted to occupy Ukraine, it would have done so already, nearly as easily as it walked in and took over Crimea by firing one shot (one guy was killed in the process as I recall). So Russia doesn't really want to own the place and deal with an endless guerrilla insurgency, like us in Iraq, they just want the pro-Russian Ukrainians to have their own state and/or not be blown to bits by the anti-Russian Ukrainians.
If we work together with Russia, we can solve this. If we work in opposition to Russia, we risk destroying most of civilization.
If we work together with Russia, we can solve this. If we work in opposition to Russia, we risk destroying most of civilization.
4
I do agree with the notion of letting Ukraine solve this by themselves, the problem is its war spilling into all of Europe that worries people. Plus Putin's got aspbuergers.
For someone who has lived under Communism before, I have to say you NYTimes liberals have no idea the horror Russia is imposing on Ukraine. If you have a quarter of the pity you pay to the Palestinians, you should consider helping the Ukrainians resist the encroaching Russia.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
50
Dan - agreed, i heard the stories from my parents and my relatives who are still in Ukraine. but the know-it-all ex communist Americans who hate the US will do, say and make up anything that makes the US look like the only crook in the world- they belong to a chapter of the anti-vaxxers club- pull "facts" out of thin air for their own hateful purpose.
19
These are the words of Martin Niemeller.
He was talking about the Nazists, not about the Communists...
http://isurvived.org/home.html#Prologue
He was talking about the Nazists, not about the Communists...
http://isurvived.org/home.html#Prologue
6
Vasily - and those Nazis i.e. LePen and her FN party allying itself with Putin and Putin doing the same.
6
What’s it to us or Russia if half of Ukraine is demolished in a proxy war?
6
First T80 tanks are older then US M1 Abrams, in service from 1976 soviet union. Calling it 'modern' then there are newer T90 and even T99 tanks is a bit exaggerated. Second, i do not think many countries agree to that ridiculous idea of solving a conflict by providing lethal weapons to one of the sides. Russia might take it as a direct threat to national security, and if actual war breaks out - and i mean with air support, navy, real modern military - what then? 2 questions to Ukrainian people - is new weaponry and therefore a threat of modern war inside entire Ukraine Kiev included not an enough threat to encourage government to withdraw army first? 2nd question is even if Ukraine reclaims territories - how will you live together with those people you had actual war with? There has been enough proof that Ukrainian army shelled civil cities - even if it was 'by accident' - it is not a way to deal with so called 'terrorists'. I believe Ukraina deserves normal future, not being influenced by Russia, but solving conflicts with an actual army is not a way to do this. I think it is hard for Ukrainian leadership to make decisions in this tense environment, and decisions of making only 1 official language also in regions of 80% Russian speaking was stupid. Giving citizenship and medals to official neo nazis (azov) was also stupid. US supports Ukraine by 15-40 millions, but revenue Ukraine had from gas trasit was around 700m/year if i am not mistaken. I think US should not intervene.
13
Here is one way to resolve the crisis: Let the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine secede, and the rest of Ukraine should join NATO.
5
80% of Ukraine - a gift from Russia and the Soviet Union from 1920 to 1954 the Ukrainian people. Let NATO takes back the former Polish and Austro-Hungarian territory in the West of Ukraine, to hell with them. The rest of the land - it is primordial Rus. And there never will be stay boots of soldiers of the nations that tried to conquer Russia in 1604, 1812, 1853, 1918 and 1941.
9
Max ES: "80% of Ukraine - a gift from Russia..." - not exactly.
Actually it is the other way around. Today's Krasnodar Region (in Russia) was populated with majority Ukrainian population until forced starvation of Ukrainians in early 1930ties (at least 7 million dead). This made more space for Russian colonists, in Krasnodar and other territories. You know - the civilized XX century...
To be fair, there WERE genuine Russian settlers in the region before, nobody disputes this. Just do not go around telling "it is and always was 100% primordial Russia" nonsense.
And about this forced starvation of Ukrainians (holomodor) by Stalin and his criminal cronies: number of Ukrainian holomodor victims was comparable to the total number of Soviet battlefield casualties in WWII. Soviet Union and now Russia claim special rights due to (to be clear - undisputed and respected by pretty much everybody) WWII sacrifices. Think about this next time when saying something about Ukraine and Russia. Comparable numbers.
Actually it is the other way around. Today's Krasnodar Region (in Russia) was populated with majority Ukrainian population until forced starvation of Ukrainians in early 1930ties (at least 7 million dead). This made more space for Russian colonists, in Krasnodar and other territories. You know - the civilized XX century...
To be fair, there WERE genuine Russian settlers in the region before, nobody disputes this. Just do not go around telling "it is and always was 100% primordial Russia" nonsense.
And about this forced starvation of Ukrainians (holomodor) by Stalin and his criminal cronies: number of Ukrainian holomodor victims was comparable to the total number of Soviet battlefield casualties in WWII. Soviet Union and now Russia claim special rights due to (to be clear - undisputed and respected by pretty much everybody) WWII sacrifices. Think about this next time when saying something about Ukraine and Russia. Comparable numbers.
6
Max, considering that Ukraine was a fundamental part of the Soviet Union, equal in status to Russia, it would be hard for it receive gifts from its own country.
4
Is this any different, really, than the cover-up that the Argentinian prosecutor Nisman was concluding, i.e., that a government is suppressing the truth about a major terrorist act so as to avoid endangering the flow of petroleum?
1
Huge differences!
Argentina wasn't invaded any body lately.
The Russia level of deceit is vastly larger, and there is no hint that they will own up to their lies. Thousand have died in the Ukraine. List goes on.
Argentina wasn't invaded any body lately.
The Russia level of deceit is vastly larger, and there is no hint that they will own up to their lies. Thousand have died in the Ukraine. List goes on.
3
After starting the whole thing in Ukraine with our bevy of Senators, State Department officials, and NATO military, now we are talking peace as if we were as innocent anyone could be. The Ukraine affair has been another picnic for our arms suppliers and contractors and another escapade in spending money we supposedly don't have to spend on childhood education and other fripperies. It is getting hard to discern whether what we are doing on Russia's border is a slapstick comedy at the local resident's expense or a tragic lead-in to another "unnecessary" war by the Bush/Obama "good guys".
51
This whole thing is a little scary. Putin seems to be bent on re-establishing a Russian empire, and he has a lot of nukes, at least some of which would still work.
2
I've got news for everyone, the Russian Bear will NOT be bullied, anyone recall WWII?
24
Who's the bully? .... Who's the victim?
9
Ukraine is and always has been bullied by Russia.
17
Yes, I do recall WWII, especially its costs for the Soviets. Incidentally, the Russians themselves do not even know or care to know how many of their own people were killed. Some estimates say 70 million, the others-30 million, who knows? So, yes, the Soviet Union, I repeat, the Soviet Union, which included Ukrainians among other peopes, contributed to winning that terrible war. Do you homework before you make a fool of yourself.
11
I do not doubt those of Russian ethnicity remain loyal to their Rus' Dynasty heritage, and let's face it, who wouldn't want to be fully re-united with Russia's soaring economy, its brilliantly efficient bureaucracies that are the envy of the world, and its unmatched record for human rights? Only a fool would deny that Putin has almost completely eliminated cronyism and corruption during his progressive leadership, and freedom of speech and diversity is guaranteed.
The idea that so many Ukrainians would reject thorough integration with Russian and all is has achieved during the past twenty years simply boggles the mind.
The idea that so many Ukrainians would reject thorough integration with Russian and all is has achieved during the past twenty years simply boggles the mind.
18
No country , including our USA is without a dirty past. 200 years of selling human men, women and children gave us the power and wealth for the 20th century, which allowed us to build a navy like Britiain. We've pulled the plug on heads of State all over the world. Putin is hardly a saint, coming from the KGB, but he has enormous popular support of his own people, and the ethnic Russians in the East of Ukraine is a touchy spot for him. And if you ever have explored the history of Ukranians, with their human hostage trafficking, Nazi supporting Nationalists, the general idea I get is that these people hardly want an American Democracy and love to use terrorist tactics because the "ends justifies the means" just like Nazis themselves.
2
Tom, you make too many excuses on behalf of Putin's land-grab.
To the degree that Putin "has enormous popular support of his own people" does not validate him any more than Hitler's support of Germans in his day validated his evil. I do not find your moral equivalency to be either moral or accurate. Because the USA or Ukraine has violated basic principles of democracy and justice in the past does not absolve Russia from criticism in the here and now.
Ethical and legal accountability are the basis of useful morals and laws, and to dissolve accountability is to dissolve civilization and replace it with a criminal state ruled by thuggery and corruption.
To the degree that Putin "has enormous popular support of his own people" does not validate him any more than Hitler's support of Germans in his day validated his evil. I do not find your moral equivalency to be either moral or accurate. Because the USA or Ukraine has violated basic principles of democracy and justice in the past does not absolve Russia from criticism in the here and now.
Ethical and legal accountability are the basis of useful morals and laws, and to dissolve accountability is to dissolve civilization and replace it with a criminal state ruled by thuggery and corruption.
4
"Putin is hardly a saint, coming from the KGB, but he has enormous popular support of his own people". Bush One was hardly a saint, coming from the CIA, and he has no popular support here. In fact he told lies to the world about WMD in Iraq, killed thousands of people there, and his son did the same in Syria, Libya and Afghanistan with the war-cry of Democracy, the American Style of Democracy not the peaceful way of "India's democracy". Shame on us for electing the Bushes.
3
A Western Push for a Solution as Ukrainian War Intensifies....?!
More precise title would be US is backing off...because majority of US tax payers don't want to finance yet another pointless war, as most of Ukrainian youth left the country to avoid Kiev junta mobilization - and many of them actually left to Russia, as European leaders are now openly opposing further sanctions to Russia, as Kiev junta is about to suffer another humiliating military defeat, as right wing fascists took over Ukrainian army and police, as OSCE reported that majority of war crimes have been done by Kiev junta paramilitary forces, and finally as average Ukrainians started to be more scared of their own fascists in power than so called Russian supported rebels.
We all hope that Victoria Nuland will end up in Hague...for Kiev junta - we all know - very soon they will ended up hanging on the trees in Kiev.
In summary, yet another neocons' foreign policy blunder!
More precise title would be US is backing off...because majority of US tax payers don't want to finance yet another pointless war, as most of Ukrainian youth left the country to avoid Kiev junta mobilization - and many of them actually left to Russia, as European leaders are now openly opposing further sanctions to Russia, as Kiev junta is about to suffer another humiliating military defeat, as right wing fascists took over Ukrainian army and police, as OSCE reported that majority of war crimes have been done by Kiev junta paramilitary forces, and finally as average Ukrainians started to be more scared of their own fascists in power than so called Russian supported rebels.
We all hope that Victoria Nuland will end up in Hague...for Kiev junta - we all know - very soon they will ended up hanging on the trees in Kiev.
In summary, yet another neocons' foreign policy blunder!
37
just how do you know that these youth left Ukraine? A crystal ball? Putin's spirit came to you in a dream? What about the "Rebels" mobilization of 100,000 as per the leader of the rebels news conference? That's alright by you for they are fighting for their homes and freedom and the Ukrainians aren't... been stated repeatedly- Ukraine wants nothing to do with Russia and their interference in Ukrainian affairs. more lies form the crazy Putin camp.
15
Anyone who trusts Putin is a fool. Megalomaniacs only care about one thing, power. The western nations have made many mistakes, trusting Russian power brokers could be the worst mistake of all. Ask yourself this question, if we allow Putin a free hand in eastern Ukraine will he stop there. His ambitions do not end there comrades. The only thing that will stop this madness is tactical nukes stationed in every bordering country with mother Russia. Hitler would be proud of Vladimir the great.
16
Who are you to allow or not to allow Russia to do anything? Russia - the great world power, as well as the US, EU, Japan, China, India or the UK. People in Russia and Ukraine may well themselves to sort out their relationship, without you and you like to poke their nose in their business!
6
@Max ES, I'm sure the relationship between Russia and Ukraine will be sorted out once Russia has eliminated all resistance. By your logic any country can do anything it wants, when it wants and no one should move to stop them. Even if I were to accept that premise, I would ask who YOU are to tell the U.S. how to conduct its foreign affairs (as long as we're playing the sovereign nations game)?
2
After Iraq?
Ukraine is extremely corrupt. The Maiden revolution was meant to change that culture but was taken over by right-wing nationalist militias who marched against the Russian speaking peoples in the east after executing a coup against the democratically elected government in Kiev.
If any outside force instigated this war it is the US State Department. The only way out is to back Poroshenko, one of the good guys, and help him reign in the militias.
Putin and the forces in the east will back off if the militias from Kiev can be controlled, which is doubtful.
If any outside force instigated this war it is the US State Department. The only way out is to back Poroshenko, one of the good guys, and help him reign in the militias.
Putin and the forces in the east will back off if the militias from Kiev can be controlled, which is doubtful.
6
Seems...Syria again....revolution was taken over by hard core nationalists - more precisely - fascists. We didn't learn anything...
Robert Fors and Victoria Nuland are now drinking Starbucks latte in Georgetown and can't care less what they did to hundreds of thousands of people...
SHAME! Their place is in Hague...
Robert Fors and Victoria Nuland are now drinking Starbucks latte in Georgetown and can't care less what they did to hundreds of thousands of people...
SHAME! Their place is in Hague...
12
Puerco, shhhh (I say it like Rand Paul), be quiet about Syria. If not the King of Saudi Arabia won't stop keeping the price of oil above $50, to prevent it from going to $30. By the way, how is the plan to overtake the US dollar as an international currency going? Good?
3
The fact that marginal right wing activists participated in a mass popular movement does not make the collapse of the Yanukovych government a 'fascist coup.' Ukraine was and is a democratic nation.
The 'militias' that need to be controlled are the ones invading Ukraine's east on behalf of their Russian sponsors.
The 'militias' that need to be controlled are the ones invading Ukraine's east on behalf of their Russian sponsors.
Very encouraged by what I read here in Readers' Picks. Why are we in Ukraine at all? Our media is getting almost everything wrong, says Stephen Cohen, a well-known analyst of Russian affairs. He considers all that we're doing there highly dangerous, and wonders why Obama now seems to be giving way to our infamous War Party.
70
Why is Russia in Ukraine at all should be your question....
17
Stephen Cohen is an old Soviet analyst who cried on TV when Gorbachev was kicked out and the Soviet Union discarded. He always favors ideologues and is pretty much funded by his wealthy wife, Katrina vanden Heuvel. The question to ask is why did Putin break Russia's treaty obligations under the 1994 Budapest Memorandum? That treaty guaranteed Ukraine's borders and in return Ukraine gave up its nukes and signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
12
Stephen Cohen is a discredited Putin apologist, whom Julia Ioffe has rightly called out as a toady: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/29/arts/scholars-at-odds-on-ukraine.html
10
Why is it that the article refers to Moscow as having broken ceasefires in the past when the Russian Army is not in Ukraine? Is there any proof that the Russian army is there? Got some photographs maybe? We do have pictures of Ukrainian units using the Nazi salute however.
52
and we do have that bank check sent to the FN and Le Pen of the Fascist French party in form of a loan from Putin's close friend.. Le Pen made it clear she supports wholeheartedly Putin and the direction he is taking Russia- So , who is the real "fascist" here?
9
Actually, yes, there are photographs of Russian troops and equipment in the Ukraine. But I think everyone who posts here is tired of responding to red herrings and paranoid rants from dubious sources. Is it the poor English that tips us off, or just the hilarious malapropisms?? Hitler was all about the Big Lie. Putin's propaganda strategy seems to be Let a Billion Lies Bloom. Who can blame him? Seems like everyone has already forgotten he shot down an airliner full of men women and children. ISIS only murders one innocent at a time but get all the press.
13
You don't have to like Putin to refuse to support a Western/NATO expansion into the East that threatens world peace.
4
The US govt is trying to punch Russia to the corner.
But Russia has its hands on Ukraine's neck.
The more pressure you put on Russia, the more they will strangle Ukraine.
Russia can take big hits, Ukraine can not.
But Russia has its hands on Ukraine's neck.
The more pressure you put on Russia, the more they will strangle Ukraine.
Russia can take big hits, Ukraine can not.
9
Now as the war in the Ukraine in the Donbass is more than six months continued, Secretary of State announces about intention to terminate war.
Again American hypocrisy. Again.
How much can you lie to the whole world?
Beginning from President Ronald Reagan, the Bushes and now Obama America purposefully and consistently armed and threatens the entire world.
Where you have national leaders, independent from the influence of militarist lobbies and your oligarchs? Where are they? Such as Roosevelt, Wallace. who are capable of were to unite the nation and lead it to prosperity.
Your nowdays leaders lead you to war, and thus to the collapse ...
Arms sales to government authorities of Ukraine (which are not quite adequate) significantly worsen the situation in the Donbass. This will increase the number of deaths and hence the possibility of a peaceful resolution of the conflict will be crossed out.
US authorities are expected to behave appropriately and finally to think
about their foreign policy.
Do you want to unleash Europe's World War 3? Where your mind and head?...
Again American hypocrisy. Again.
How much can you lie to the whole world?
Beginning from President Ronald Reagan, the Bushes and now Obama America purposefully and consistently armed and threatens the entire world.
Where you have national leaders, independent from the influence of militarist lobbies and your oligarchs? Where are they? Such as Roosevelt, Wallace. who are capable of were to unite the nation and lead it to prosperity.
Your nowdays leaders lead you to war, and thus to the collapse ...
Arms sales to government authorities of Ukraine (which are not quite adequate) significantly worsen the situation in the Donbass. This will increase the number of deaths and hence the possibility of a peaceful resolution of the conflict will be crossed out.
US authorities are expected to behave appropriately and finally to think
about their foreign policy.
Do you want to unleash Europe's World War 3? Where your mind and head?...
18
seems tome i remember roosevelt arming a lot of people, including the ussr
2
Roosevelt was a great and far-sighted politician.
You owe him that he killed the Great depression.
Roosevelt helped to Europe and the Soviet Union to fight
with Hitler. Who was then the world's evil.
It was necessary.
And now the world's evil - this is the USA...
You owe him that he killed the Great depression.
Roosevelt helped to Europe and the Soviet Union to fight
with Hitler. Who was then the world's evil.
It was necessary.
And now the world's evil - this is the USA...
4
We really need to just stay out of this - sending Kerry to deal with Putin, is like sending Butter to deal with a Hot Knife.
23
I for one am not concerned, Chamberlin is meeting with Hitler sound familiar? The best thing we can do is do nothing. We kill Muslims everyday with drones and Fighter aircraft that won't work against Russia.
2
Explain how the US will PAY FOR a war with Russia.
5
Dear D. Lawton,
That's an easy question. The price for a U.S.-Russia war would be the elimination of the U.S. and Russia, and basically all their populations.
That's an easy question. The price for a U.S.-Russia war would be the elimination of the U.S. and Russia, and basically all their populations.
2
Thank you, NY Times, for once again reporting on Ukraine. You missed a few things though, like the last three weeks of war.
4
But you didn't, because you are right there, not Portland.
None of these Kremlin employees ever say I'm wrong. So I must be right.
None of these Kremlin employees ever say I'm wrong. So I must be right.
5
Dear Bob,
Actually the NYT has been covering the increasing conflict in Ukraine. Even some front-page articles, not a whole lot with comments sections. The thing is, it hasn't been as major as the fighting earlier, or the other violent conflicts going on today.
Actually the NYT has been covering the increasing conflict in Ukraine. Even some front-page articles, not a whole lot with comments sections. The thing is, it hasn't been as major as the fighting earlier, or the other violent conflicts going on today.
2
Yes, let's send weapons for killing in the hopes that peace results. I think this has worked before, hasn't it?
25
Russia is doing just that and its fine by you? it's called- equalizing the conflict, so far Ukraine has been out gunned because of Russia's supplies.. the war almost ended until Russia stepped in to save their rebel comrades/proxies.
9
In fighting Stalin, the Finns DID keep their country, (most of it, sadly, not all, to be sure) so yes, sometimes it does, apparently.
4
Steven,
Ukraine's situation has nothing to do with WWII Finland.
Putin cannot allow Ukraine to become a threat.
Ukraine's situation has nothing to do with WWII Finland.
Putin cannot allow Ukraine to become a threat.
2
We're dealing with an old-style soviet tyrant. Think Hitler and Stalin. If you think Putin cares whether Russians starve in the streets you should consider reducing your medication.
We must be willing to fight. By we, I mean, US-support of a regional league, to fight the dirty little war that must be fought. Putin must taste blood in his mouth before he agrees to talk. I would hope, by now, that Poland and others in the region are helping out in Ukraine. Surely, they know that they are next?
We must be willing to fight. By we, I mean, US-support of a regional league, to fight the dirty little war that must be fought. Putin must taste blood in his mouth before he agrees to talk. I would hope, by now, that Poland and others in the region are helping out in Ukraine. Surely, they know that they are next?
9
Inasmuch as Putin doesn't care if Russians starve in the streets, why do you think the blood of some of his soldiers will cool his drive to reconstitute the territories of the old imperial Russia?
The best defense against him at this time appears to be the decline in the price of oil.
Let's ask a far more heartless question...where is the essential interest of the U.S. If it is in Ukraine, then yes, arm them for the proxy war. If not, define where the essential interest is and let the slower process of economic strangulation work against Putin.
The best defense against him at this time appears to be the decline in the price of oil.
Let's ask a far more heartless question...where is the essential interest of the U.S. If it is in Ukraine, then yes, arm them for the proxy war. If not, define where the essential interest is and let the slower process of economic strangulation work against Putin.
3
You want war ? Why don't you volunteer then. Oh right you want to see this "dirty little war" from the safe distance of your couch while young people die. Let's make a rule here - don't cry for war unless you are really ready to fight it yourself.
14
agreed, btw did you read the other day about the 2008 Pentagon memo about Putin that he probably has Asperger Syndrome. I wonder if Obama knows about it.. and why he hasn't taken more appropriate action to counter Putin.. Obama is a foreign policy failure in my opinion, on par with Jimmy Carter.. he needs to resign and go back to teaching law at Harvard- he's only good with scripted scenarios.
5
Mitt Romney was right about Russia, right about the rise of terrorism and right about Obama's policies leading to a weakened middle class. Romney was wrong about the ability of manner voters to understand facts rather than be drawn to the promises of free stuff. The world is paying a heavy price for an incompetent America President. it is of no surprise that Obama is not iincluded by Merkel and Hollande in any attempts to resolve the crisis in Ukraine.
3
Un, while you're at it, you might as well also blame Obama for the Seahawks calling a pass play on 2nd and goal from the 1-yard line in the Super Bowl.
7
Totally on point. Obama is truly incompetent and in above his head and the world knows it.
2
As many other redundant factual points are made on this topic so this should as well. Obama participated in a significant disarming of reborn Ukraine only allowing it to rearm after twenty four years and the advent of Russian and subsequent border incursion.
A peace negotiation is not too complicated be achieved. Four major players --Ukraine, Russia, Berlin and US -- are involved directly and indirectly into the conflict. Each one has to make concession in order to end the conflict.
Q: From the four players above, who is the most difficult one to accept a deal?
Chancellor Merkel must guarantee that Ukraine's economic integration to the EU will not be extended into the military. Kiev must guarantee autonomy to the Easter region, populated by ethnic Russian descendents.
Moscow must guarantee military support to separatists and stop sending its own troops to fight in Ukrainian territory. Washington should stop meddling in European affairs and provoking Russia with NATO expansion.
Q: From the four players above, who is the most difficult one to accept a deal?
Chancellor Merkel must guarantee that Ukraine's economic integration to the EU will not be extended into the military. Kiev must guarantee autonomy to the Easter region, populated by ethnic Russian descendents.
Moscow must guarantee military support to separatists and stop sending its own troops to fight in Ukrainian territory. Washington should stop meddling in European affairs and provoking Russia with NATO expansion.
8
The only "peace" deal Putin will/can accept is that the Russian/militants are given full control of all of Donetsk & Luhansk oblasts. He needs that, as stated in the article, so the break-away region is somewhat economically viable and so that Putin himself may claim a "victory" over Ukraine and the US/EU. The earlier he obtains that goal, the better, as he is hoping that sanctions on Russia will be removed within about a 6 month time period before Russia's foreign currency reservers are depleted. Anything less than an agreement on full Russian militant control of the 2 oblasts will lead to another sham "ceasefire" allowing Putin to send more men & material into E. Ukraine for the next push against Ukrainian government forces.
7
Russia proposed federalization and diplomatic negotiations for Ukraine a year ago which is what the New York Times (thanks NYT!) is now suggesting. The strategy of Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko on pacification of Donbass failed, and he'll lose the self-proclaimed republics given the militias are near victory.
Protests in Kiev in front of the defense Ministry in the capital of Ukraine 3 hundred volunteers battalion of the National guard " Aidar ", (RIA "Novosti )". They burned tires, drummed on the metal barrels, blocked the road. The soldiers protested against the possible dissolution of their battalion. Human rights organizations such as Amnesty international, blame the contingent from 5 thousand 600 volunteers involved in special operations in the South-East of the state, in the abduction and killing people.
A crowd of several hundred of people has begun storming the Ukrainian presidential administration’s office, was reported today from the scene. Demonstrators have penetrated the first cordon of the National Guards and are trying to make their way to the conference hall. Police forces are being moved in. National guards in full riot gear entered a brawl with the demonstrators, who are demanding access to TV cameras for a statement. Women from the Mothers’ Union have told TASS their sons could not have been contacted for the past several days. Meantime NATO's meeting in Brussels heightens danger of a direct confrontation between nuclear-armed powers.
Protests in Kiev in front of the defense Ministry in the capital of Ukraine 3 hundred volunteers battalion of the National guard " Aidar ", (RIA "Novosti )". They burned tires, drummed on the metal barrels, blocked the road. The soldiers protested against the possible dissolution of their battalion. Human rights organizations such as Amnesty international, blame the contingent from 5 thousand 600 volunteers involved in special operations in the South-East of the state, in the abduction and killing people.
A crowd of several hundred of people has begun storming the Ukrainian presidential administration’s office, was reported today from the scene. Demonstrators have penetrated the first cordon of the National Guards and are trying to make their way to the conference hall. Police forces are being moved in. National guards in full riot gear entered a brawl with the demonstrators, who are demanding access to TV cameras for a statement. Women from the Mothers’ Union have told TASS their sons could not have been contacted for the past several days. Meantime NATO's meeting in Brussels heightens danger of a direct confrontation between nuclear-armed powers.
1
Ainhoa - please provide some actual relevant & credible links for those many assertions that you have just made, hopefully something other than RT, Ruptly, Anna News or globalresearch.
5
KJ Just about all of this was in the Kiev Post and Interfax.UA. There is a lot of discontent in Kiev these days. Avakov was trying to disband Aidar, but after the demonstration and threats he changed his mind. I have listed some articles from PRO-Kiev publications which you should read.
"Kyiv Prosecutor concerned that Aidar Battalion could stage military coup"
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/07/kyiv-prosecutor-concerned-that-aid...
"Ukraine must stop ongoing abuses and war crimes by pro-Ukrainian volunteer forces"
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-...
"Warlords and armed groups threaten Ukraine’s rebuilding"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-rise-of-warlords-threatens-uk...
And this is all from Press which YOU KJ approve
"Kyiv Prosecutor concerned that Aidar Battalion could stage military coup"
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/07/kyiv-prosecutor-concerned-that-aid...
"Ukraine must stop ongoing abuses and war crimes by pro-Ukrainian volunteer forces"
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-...
"Warlords and armed groups threaten Ukraine’s rebuilding"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-rise-of-warlords-threatens-uk...
And this is all from Press which YOU KJ approve
1
Does anyone want war with Russia over Ukraine? This is the only question worth asking.
89
The more precise question is whether America should go to war against Russia over four eastern provinces in Ukraine significantly populated with ethnic Russians who no longer have a wish to be part Ukraine. The logical and ethical answer is no.
8
Peace would come a lot quicker without the US sticking its nose in with the likes of Kerry and Biden. Now the US claims publicly, that Putin has a mental disease, and this newspaper irresponsibly printed the assertion, but we always claim that our many enemies are mentally imbalanced, else wise they would do as we say. We are the Worlds merchant of death and War. All of Europe needs to demand our disengagement with them for the sake of world peace, which we violently oppose, everywhere.
13
nonsense how did you come to this conclusion? with the help of the Kremlin?
6
so they want a solution that "guarantee the “full territorial integrity” of Ukraine" while Russia already accepted Crimea into its federation...I think, unless they changed the stance within last week on what is Ukraine territory (which is unlikely as EU just extended sanctions related to Crimea), that would be non-starter for Putin and just a PR action on EU side.
2
Before the comments reach a level which precludes normal perception, a few statistics. Russia is a nation of 143+M people. It has a declining or static population, due to a low birth rate, and is encircled on many sides by rising emerging powers and forces. Its GDP, under the best of times, is not exemplary. European NATO and the European Union have basically the same political, economic and (potential) military footprint. A region of 500M with a GDP that rivals that of the US. It really confounds explanation why the United States of America, a nation far from the conflict in the Western Hemisphere, has to be in this discussion. This is a seminal moment for Western Europe and its nations of NATO. The time for "regional leadership" and "primary participation" from European NATO has arrived. The US should take a secondary role in this conflict.
2
you mean if russia had a sound gdp - population growth etc - in short if Russia were not weak in your opinion - US should take a secondary role. Now that u sense Russia is vulnerable - you feel it should attack as it did. Sounds like typical coward bully. Despite your desperate calculations - US will get creamed if it involves itself militarily in Russia's backyard.
Is Victoria baking her cookies? Next Maidan may be coming soon. Oh, and this time around she should try to pronounce the full names of her puppets.
11
You're making out Nuland to be the Secretary of State, she is just a 3rd tier, washed up conservative, Bush leftover in the State Dept, basically running coffee errands for her bosses.. you and other Putin lovers keep lying hoping people will be dumb enough to listen.
7
What is your point? Can you be more explicit? I am not sure where my love to putin is but I am sure I do not love when Ukrainians destroy their own country..
this is as close to a civil war as any, with one exception- Russia's instigation and arming of the opposing sides with their own troops involved. I take it the American Civil war should not of happened and slavery continue on? Ukrainians are fighting because they have to. Russia is/was like England when it dealt with Ireland- as one IRA member said- England will never leave unless we fight and beat them- that's how arrogant Putin and Russians are when it comes to Ukraine.. just read Belarus' President's comments from last week regarding Putin- he told the press that Putin better think twice if he's going to interfere with and try destabilizing Belarus- its all there in print - read it.. then maybe you people will finally understand Russia and Asperger Syndrome patient, Putin.
4
These peace negotiations would have a chance if the US were not involved. But US corporations smell profits, so Kerry and Biden will not allow any agreements to be made between the western European governments and Russia that does not protect our $5 billion investment in regime change in Ukraine. With Joe Biden's son, Hunter, and a family friend of John Kerry both on the board of a Ukrainian NG company--a fact never reported by the vaunted NY Times--it's clear that cronyism is alive and well in the Democratic Party. There are plenty of other uncomfortable facts regarding Ukraine that might very well make a difference in how people feel about the situation in Ukraine and which the US MSM media did not report.
39
to be fair, nyt did report hunter biden has been appointed as a board member of said company.
2
The issue of the current crisis in Ukraine is a battle of not only Russian intervention but a war for the historical identity of the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainian crisis is one of many centuries old conflict of subjugation and attempted Russification of the Ukrainian people. As in Soviet times, historical figures and facts were plotted out to conform to Soviet historical interpretations; such is the case with Ukraine; distorting facts in order to justify Russia’s intervention into the sovereign nation of Ukraine. The battle is a military one pitting an antiquated army against a modern one. To aid the beleaguered Ukrainian army will prolong the battle but coupled with sticker sanctions Russia might stop Russian aggression. Both Porosenko and Putin are engaged in a staring contest in which one seeks to save a county's independence and its cultural identity; the other to continue its imperialistic adventurism into a sovereign nation and polt out its history and historical indentity.
3
Perhaps supporters of Russia's right to govern Ukraine will have to agree that no well established borders will be fixed in stone, ever, and aggressors should feel most welcome to take what they like from the smorgasbord of the Baltic region, or any other region in the world. Hmmm...that sounds colonial to me.
1
Ukranians and Russians are the same people.
And why would Putin be expected to passively allow the Kiev regime to be supplied by NATO? ARE WE WILLING TO GO TO THE MATS over what has always been an area governed from Moscow?
Ukraine was NEVER an independent nation-state. Cobbled together from territories controlled by the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire (predominantly) it has NEVER been a sovereign state.
It was not a Warsaw Pact member. It was an integral part of the USSR. It was the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic!
Imagine: the EU without Great Britain becomes a Greater Germany and develops divergent policies from the US and Britain. Imagine Quebec demanding and getting independence. Imagine Quebec joining the EU and the arrival of a Franco-German naval force. Would we be OK with that? If so we have crossed the border into a post-American world.
Ukraine was NEVER an independent nation-state. Cobbled together from territories controlled by the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire (predominantly) it has NEVER been a sovereign state.
It was not a Warsaw Pact member. It was an integral part of the USSR. It was the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic!
Imagine: the EU without Great Britain becomes a Greater Germany and develops divergent policies from the US and Britain. Imagine Quebec demanding and getting independence. Imagine Quebec joining the EU and the arrival of a Franco-German naval force. Would we be OK with that? If so we have crossed the border into a post-American world.
24
an area governed by Moscow? including Poland? Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, even Belarus' President threatened Putin not to get any ideas about starting trouble there... so we should let crazy Putin run amok in the Baltic area and Ukraine? What if the roles were reversed and the U.S. invaded and or armed thugs in Mexico? What would you say then.. Central America was always and area "governed" by the U.S. you people... Putin/Russia loving nuts=- are definitely blinded... and have a deep hatred for the U.S. for you to be taken seriously.
aA
aA
10
The fundamental dispute between the US and Russia here is we don't agree on the legitimacy of the current Ukraine regime. To Russia, Ukraine has been unlawfully seized by tyrannical usurpers who seek to marginalize and discriminate against other ethnic groups. From that perspective, its very much like how the US sees Sudan. So, like the US did in Iraq and Iran and Cuba, Russia is promoting for regime change in Ukraine.
The US should have done more over a longer time to promote our interests in Ukraine and not simply latched on to the protestors in Independence Square as our champions with little understanding of their ideas or commitment to fairness. I don't know enough about the Ukraine regime to understand how strongly the US should be backing it and I don't think anyone else in the US does either.
The US should have done more over a longer time to promote our interests in Ukraine and not simply latched on to the protestors in Independence Square as our champions with little understanding of their ideas or commitment to fairness. I don't know enough about the Ukraine regime to understand how strongly the US should be backing it and I don't think anyone else in the US does either.
5
Let's see how well Russia does against superior NATO technology in Ukrainian hands.
1
NATO can't even defeat ISIS with its 'superior technology'
7
With that theory, we should have no worries.
Yet, there is Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, ISIS, and of a myriad of other military actions that should all terminated in the near future.
Yet, there is Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, ISIS, and of a myriad of other military actions that should all terminated in the near future.
Tesnik- because we aren't really trying, as per UAE, Jordon's claims that the US isn't doing enough nor allowing more strikes against ISIS- read it- story was in yesterday's papers.
3
If there has ever been a conflict that should be managed and led by NATO, this is the conflict. While the US infrastructure falls apart, it is astonishing to imagine that our leaders are considering engaging in yet another misguided adventure which will benefit only the war profiteers.
8
This is why interest groups exist on Capitol Hill!
1
just like interests groups kissing up to the Kremlin... totally one sided comments like the US is the only corrupt nation in the world- HA!!!
6
Kerry and Obama once again turn to diplomacy and perhaps economic sanctions as the response to naked aggression. It has failed in Syria, it has failed in halting the Iranian nuclear program, it has failed in Crimea and in Eastern Ukraine, not to mention attempts at outreach to North Korea and others. Sounds like Einstein's definition of insanity - "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
4
Our triumphalism about 'winning' the cold war sure is biting us in the posterior now. NATO was purely anti Soviet and its continued existence makes the case the anti-Soviet activity was NOT anti Communist but anti-Russian. Poke a big dog enough he will bite you.
24
On first read, I was inclined to agree that anti-Soviet efforts did not completely explain the current situation. It still doesn't but in totality it does look like a dog fight has been staged to at least weaken both sides in Ukraine vis-a-vis greater interest in a generally weakening European [u]nion.
Follow the money. Robert Parry of Consortium News has written extensively on Ukraine. In his latest article he points out some of the characters (Americans) that are benefiting monetarily from our involvement in last February’s coup overthrowing the government of President Yanukovych (who was elected with strong support from eastern Ukraine). Parry points out that, in the past, American support for interventionism was garnered by demonizing figures like Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein, and now the U.S. is doing the same with Putin.
Parry ends his piece by writing: “But [Tom] Friedman is right about one thing: ‘Ukraine matters.’ And he’s even right that Ukraine matters more than the butchery that’s continuing in Iraq.
“But Friedman is wrong about why. Ukraine matters more because he and the other ‘group thinkers,’ who turned Iraq into today’s slaughterhouse, are just as blind to the reality of the U.S. military confronting Russia over Ukraine, except in the Ukraine case, both sides have nuclear weapons.”
‘Group-Thinking’ the World into a New War
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/01/31/group-thinking-world-new-war
Parry ends his piece by writing: “But [Tom] Friedman is right about one thing: ‘Ukraine matters.’ And he’s even right that Ukraine matters more than the butchery that’s continuing in Iraq.
“But Friedman is wrong about why. Ukraine matters more because he and the other ‘group thinkers,’ who turned Iraq into today’s slaughterhouse, are just as blind to the reality of the U.S. military confronting Russia over Ukraine, except in the Ukraine case, both sides have nuclear weapons.”
‘Group-Thinking’ the World into a New War
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/01/31/group-thinking-world-new-war
24
How is it that the U.S. is seeking to end the fighting in Ukraine? Is it by sending lethal arms to the puppet regime? Or may by ignoring Hollande's call to end sanctions and Merkel's insistence on a non-miolitary solution. Is the [point to force Russia and Putin into a corner where his options are to back down or strike hard? Obama, who boasted of financial warfare against Russia in his SOTU address and admitted US support for the coup, is the first president to consider risking war with nuclear superpower Russia over territories clearly within Russia's sphere of influence and in a country in which we have no strategic interest. It must be stopped.
65
In my view, the lost 5000+ lives in Ukraine could have been avoided if the West had reacted on time when it all started almost a year ago. They were treating Putin as sane, which he’s certainly not, and were trying to negotiate instead of sticking to the Budapest protocol. That was the right time to remind Putin about the integrity of Ukraine (who the US had pressed hard to destroy their nuclear arms). Did Europe/the world become safer with no A-bomb on the Ukrainian side, and Russians threatening to “turn the US into the radioactive ashes”?
Talking about “territories within Russia's sphere of influence”, you could well roll back to the point when no treaties, just military power, would be honored. “Don’t send to know for whom the bell tolls…”
Talking about “territories within Russia's sphere of influence”, you could well roll back to the point when no treaties, just military power, would be honored. “Don’t send to know for whom the bell tolls…”
7
@jdd
The Ukrainian government was voted in by free elections for both the presidency and the Rada, it is hardly a US puppet. Obama admitted nothing of the kind. He did mentioned that "we brokered a transition" before Yanukovich fled but that was most likely referring to the February 21 agreement.
The Ukrainian government was voted in by free elections for both the presidency and the Rada, it is hardly a US puppet. Obama admitted nothing of the kind. He did mentioned that "we brokered a transition" before Yanukovich fled but that was most likely referring to the February 21 agreement.
7
Hey, it's not a puppet regime. Finally this bloody ex-president Yanukovich ran away (which was in fact Putin's puppet), and now Ukrainian people are hopeful of its future. If not for Russian aggression, Ukraine would be on its way to a great European country, you want to visit one day.
Ukraine needs defend weapons to protect its people and its land, now as never before.
Ukraine needs defend weapons to protect its people and its land, now as never before.
3
the point is that the ukranian army is in a hole again.This is the only reason why Kerry,Merkel and Hollande rushed again to help moribund Parashenko and Co
6
No weapons. Diplomacy, time, and economics are on our side. Force is how we lose.
6
With great power comes great responsibility. The second world war started with the invasion of Poland by Germany. Maybe if France and Britain, backed by a less isolationist U.S., would have been tougher with Hitler in Munich, he would have never dared invade Poland and the course of history might have been different...
6
Maybe if we send arms to the Ukrainians, Russia will also escalate. Do you really think that Russia will allow a defeat to the Ukrainians?
4
The US knows NOTHING about either the Ukraine or Russia, and even less about the relationship between those two countries. And the US has a debt, something with which you are apparently not familiar. The US cannot afford to be world cop any longer, and the American people do not want to. Countries that mind their own business have higher qualities of life.
6
Obama will be the President who lost Ukraine. Believe me Ronnie wouldn't hesitate for a second to send arms, but Obama, like the General said, he only wants to give speeches and take pictures. The U.S. doesn't have to get involved with "boots on the ground," merely by sending in arms for defensive reasons although offensive is even better. Just watch Ukraine fall like a domino is sad. There won't be any US allies left except of course...little Israel which everyone who reads these cols. hates.
4
Ronnie? You mean like the arms he sent to Iran? That worked out sooooo well.
Wait, were you joking?
Wait, were you joking?
4
Do you mean arms like "Ronnie" sent to the Iranian Ayatollah in the form of a birthday cake, or are you referring to the illegal arms sent to the Contras to fight Central American countries because there was support for Moscow too close to our border?
6
If it makes you feel better, when the airport near Donetsk fell to the rebels they found plenty of American weapons among the dead Ukrainian soldiers. So someone was sending them American weapons already.
2
Why are Western Leaders trying to appease Putin? Ukraine is a sovereign country, remember? Putin should'nt even be in the picture. If he is supporting the rebels with artillery, that maybe understandable ( not really! ) but to send Russian troops to Ukraine is declaration of war. The Western powers should help Kiev with all artillery at their disposal. Also, they should tighten the noose around Putin until he is gasping for air with total sanctions. Show him no mercy. We will see him buckling down very fast. Yes, the Russians are going to be really hurt. But then, they have the responsibility to overthrow this Despot. If you can do that to Cuba (which was really no threat except in the distant, distant past) Russia should be dealt with in the same manner because there is a clear and present danger.
9
The ceasefire has broken down for weeks now, and yet again there are no pictures of Russian military units. During the Cuban crisis we had aerial photos from U2s. Now we have AWACS, military satellites over Ukraine. Everybody has a phone with a camera. And yet no photos. NI, you ever ask yourself why there are no pictures? When the west accused Russia last summer at least they showed pictures of Russians, although they were Russian soldiers inside Russia.
So I think that the US must be very cautious. The Russians must have an extraordinary stealth technology. For all we know, Russia may have already invaded western Europe. They may already have invaded the US!
So I think that the US must be very cautious. The Russians must have an extraordinary stealth technology. For all we know, Russia may have already invaded western Europe. They may already have invaded the US!
2
No Boris, not yet. You're not in Portland. You're in Moscow. Too bad that Fidel has given Vladimir the one finger wave good-bye. Fidel knows that Vladimir's kitty is almost empty.
5
There are many photos and videos of Russian armor and combatants both with & without insignia in East Ukraine.
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com.tr/
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com.tr/
6
What is the necessity that the US should be involved in this? There is ample evidence that the US is provoking the situation (e.g. Victoria Nuland's intercepted conversation planning a coup, moving NATO to Russia's borders, US/EU interference in trade negotiations between Yanukovitch and Putin). Where is the evidence that Russia is providing military support to the separatists? US citizens should demand indisputable evidence of this before the government involves us in another dangerous conflict. The US has a history of dissembling (to use the author's term) about its foreign policy (e.g. WMD's) and economic policy (e.g. providing a high tech service economy"
26
With our withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan, the recent profits of the U.S. military-industrial complex are apparently not sufficient and so the drums of war are beating again. Europe has the money and other resources to deal with this, but my guess is that they have no interest because they have as little in common with the Ukrainians as we do. It's a fairly corrupt place and there is every possibility that much of the military and humanitarian aid will end up in the wrong hands.
Except for the various American follies, most countries tend to get involved in foreign conflicts only when they have some skin in the game. When Westerners were being beheaded by the Islamic State, you heard nary a peep from the Arab world. But kill a Jordanian pilot and there is suddenly outrage in the Muslim world and King Abdullah is scrambling his jets.
Perhaps we'll see some European action when the Russians reach the German border.
Except for the various American follies, most countries tend to get involved in foreign conflicts only when they have some skin in the game. When Westerners were being beheaded by the Islamic State, you heard nary a peep from the Arab world. But kill a Jordanian pilot and there is suddenly outrage in the Muslim world and King Abdullah is scrambling his jets.
Perhaps we'll see some European action when the Russians reach the German border.
11
Poroshenko and Kerry should both step down, reality is no substitute for the sanctuary of a chocolate or ketchup factory.
8
I say that Putin should go fly away with the Ducks. That is, if the Ducks want to fly with him.
4
Putin is pursuing a foreign policy that is the tradition of Russian leaders from Ivan the Great to Nicholas I. He is pursuing his national interests against western european encroachment. He has come to realize what all Russian leaders sooner or later bitterly acknowledged. Western Europeans cannot be trusted. Peace is only a cease-fire before the next conflict. He as to disengage from the West, with a self-sufficient economy with minimal ties to Western Europe. The U.S. is the modern day Victorian power imposing its cultural and political hegemony through its currency and banking system, with minimal military involvement. Western European leaders are rushing in because their puppets are losing the war. But Putin has to be careful not to overplay his hand, as happened in the Crimean was when Russian forced the Ottomans to grant independence to the Balkans. He could be pursuing the strategy followed by Viet Nam in gradually undermining the Saigon regime. The Obama administration has so far given the foreign policy establishment the green light to do as they please, with resulting disasters almost everywhere. This could be the next one.
39
All this sympathy for Russia! Wow. People seem to forget that it was the Soviets who allowed the Nazi's to enter Poland and kill its leadership (both civilian and military). The Russians also invaded and took over all over a dozen countries after WWII and enslaved their residents, sent many civilians to a Siberian gulag for opposing their invasion, and colonized the countries depopulated via mass murder. It is only became fall of the Soviet Union when it went bankrupt (both morally and monetarily) that these countries risked their lives by pulling free of Russian oppression.
I agree that putting military basis within former Soviet satellites was not thought out but Russia has no fear that it was going to be invaded by anyone. Putin doesn't seem to believe in diplomacy but covert military invasions of its former Soviet satellites. We need a more balanced view of both sides of this ever deepening crisis. Putin isn't a hero and NATO isn't the dark side.
I agree that putting military basis within former Soviet satellites was not thought out but Russia has no fear that it was going to be invaded by anyone. Putin doesn't seem to believe in diplomacy but covert military invasions of its former Soviet satellites. We need a more balanced view of both sides of this ever deepening crisis. Putin isn't a hero and NATO isn't the dark side.
7
their policy is more like the policy of paranoia not of reason and evidence.. And what of Ukraine? Just puppets? , a barrier used by Russia for their own paranoid based purpose? And the Ukrainian people- and don't say they are Russians, i am of 2nd generation Ukrainian decent and have more knowledge of that region's history than most of you Putin loving Americans can ever hope for ....
8
Ya U r right but dont forget that Putin is the last person in the world who is still telling the truth/All EU leaders are gay and they dont have their own opinion, they are directing by the US and do what their boss(US) says/So we need ф leader like putin to make the world more peaceful and balanced/U The Americans always think that u r always right and others are wrong/American opinion is only for some Arab and poor countries /NOw time has come to listen others opinion and honour others opinion/
1
Since our batting average on proxy wars for the past 60 years hasn't been really great, it would be prudent to stay out of this one and refrain from arming (Western) Ukraine. Thus, the current diplomatic developments seem like a step in the right direction. Of course, the option of military assistance shouldn't be taken off the table, because it provides diplomats with the proverbial stick that complements the carrot during negotiations.
Certainly there are a lot of people who want to stick it to Putin and are willing to go out on a limb in order to achieve that. His thuggishness notwithstanding, let's try to resist that temptation, and look for a solution that works best for the people of Ukraine (including those in the East).
Certainly there are a lot of people who want to stick it to Putin and are willing to go out on a limb in order to achieve that. His thuggishness notwithstanding, let's try to resist that temptation, and look for a solution that works best for the people of Ukraine (including those in the East).
14
I agree with your overall assessment of US interests in Ukraine. But we also have a quest/role to be and remain the dominant nation in economic and military capability.
My contention is our highest goal is continuing to be 5% of the world's population while consuming 25% of the worlds extracted natural resources. A portion of those resources are domestic, so we 'own' them, But a large portion are not domestic, and keeping priority access at prices we dictate is essential. Waging proxy wars, win or lose seems to be the enduring strategy to keep our special privileges as a nation. Domestically, its politically framed as having policies to "Maintain America's Greatness" and "Preserving the American Way of Life". Those are very powerful ideas deeply held by a huge majority of Americans.
My contention is our highest goal is continuing to be 5% of the world's population while consuming 25% of the worlds extracted natural resources. A portion of those resources are domestic, so we 'own' them, But a large portion are not domestic, and keeping priority access at prices we dictate is essential. Waging proxy wars, win or lose seems to be the enduring strategy to keep our special privileges as a nation. Domestically, its politically framed as having policies to "Maintain America's Greatness" and "Preserving the American Way of Life". Those are very powerful ideas deeply held by a huge majority of Americans.
2
Ok, Lives Lightly. You first. Send your Ipad to the battered womans shelter, donate your state of the art computer to your local senior center and put your 60' smart tv on craigslist, trade up to a bicycle from your Lexus, and move out of your house so that it can accommodate the homeless and find a hostel to your liking where you can share meals with the folks. Eat soy beans that you have grown in a community garden and liquidate your portfolio and donate it to UNICEF. And, then quit your job and join the peace core, and contribute something to the betterment of the world. When you have accomplished this please let me know and I will follow suit. I'll back you 25% of the way.....................
4
The Islamic State is being squeezed in the Middle East by all sides. Like a balloon they will collapse in one place and reemerge in another place. That place is the Southern border with the Chechnya.
Putin, you stupid man, the gun can be pointed in both directions.
Putin, you stupid man, the gun can be pointed in both directions.
4
Jack,
"Stupid"?
Our actions have given him little room to act differently.
Mearsheimer and Stephan Cohen are right, we're the one who should back off.
Behind closed doors, Merkel and Hollande are getting worried about their backing of Kiev (a toxic mix of kleptocracy and a sizable extreme right).
"Stupid"?
Our actions have given him little room to act differently.
Mearsheimer and Stephan Cohen are right, we're the one who should back off.
Behind closed doors, Merkel and Hollande are getting worried about their backing of Kiev (a toxic mix of kleptocracy and a sizable extreme right).
7
What rank hypocrisy!!
Peace, Schmeese...
We are arming one side and economically ayttacking Russia and building up U.S. troop strength on Russian borders.
Don't sound like peace attempt to me.
Peace, Schmeese...
We are arming one side and economically ayttacking Russia and building up U.S. troop strength on Russian borders.
Don't sound like peace attempt to me.
111
There isn't a single US soldier fighting in Ukraine. There are many Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine.
5
Yes, rank hypocrisy. If one reads the international reports there is a large contingent (somewhere between six and ten thousand men) of Ukrainian military completely surrounded by the rebels. There is no hope of rescue. They will either surrender or die. It is a big enough loss that could further the widespread dissension in the ranks. Throughout the country are anti-draft demonstrations, 80% refusal to report for mobilization. There are over a million Ukrainians of draft age hiding out in Russia, and more in other countries. There are reports of open rebellion near Odessa.
In short, despite seventy years of the US coddling the Banderistas in the name of anti-communism and anti-Russianism, there are not enough Nazis in Ukraine to maintain control of the country. Still, looking at Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya, if the US can't control the situation, reducing a country to a deadly chaos is better than nothing.
In short, despite seventy years of the US coddling the Banderistas in the name of anti-communism and anti-Russianism, there are not enough Nazis in Ukraine to maintain control of the country. Still, looking at Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya, if the US can't control the situation, reducing a country to a deadly chaos is better than nothing.
1
Old Guy got his news from the crazy guy Putin- we haven't sent one gun to Ukraine- zero- all the while Russia sends in tons of ammo and military equipment along with troops and paramilitary forces.
8
As an American who has lived in Moscow much of the last two decades, I am alarmed at our government and NATO's stance in regard to Russia. It seems that we are dedicated to re-establishing the cold war. This present article is a good example. We are told that the Russian involvement is established by "estimates". We are given quotes from a person who does not want to be identified. What kind of reporting is that. If I am going to make a comment, I am willing to identify myself and give evidence of why I am saying what I am quoted as saying. I am also interested in why NATO exists today. It was established, if I understand history, to counter the Warsaw Pact nations. The Warsaw Pact does not even exist today. Why does NATO need to exist? If Russia had been allowed to be a part of NATO when it was interested, none of what is going on today would have happened.
167
Ask the citizens of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia why "NATO exists today." Russia has no fear of any invasion from any of these countries, needless to say, but some leaders do find the benefits from destabilizing neighbors, and thereby looking quite grand to their internal audience, just too tempting. Putin is such a leader; citizens in neighboring countries are only reasonable in wanting a little bit more additional deterrence against such adventurism, undertaken, so far, by Russia at so little cost. Funnily enough, none of the Baltic countries are looking to LEAVE NATO, which is what you would expect if membership really were the problem. There is no cold war in the offing, and were the West to help the Ukraine government defend itself, which is to say, simply help it have a modern army, that would be no "proxy war." It would simply be what any country has - reasonable defense. If you don't think the Ukraine is a legitimate government, fine. Then the West should not help it. If you think it is, then, it should.
9
It needs to exist because Russia is clearly willing and able to use military force to seize land from neighboring countries. See Georgia and Ukraine, recently.
The baltic republics could not defend themselves against Russia alone, as an example.
The baltic republics could not defend themselves against Russia alone, as an example.
15
Crimea, eastern Ukraine, the Baltic states, Transdnistria and Georgia are all precisely the reasons NATO exists and thank God for it, otherwise the list would be much longer. russian leaders have always rattled swords the moment they feel vulnerable at home. The sadness is that so many Russians buy into the chauvinism without a moment's thought. Putin understands this only too well.
16
The West believes in negotiations. Mr. Putin believes in sheer force. And both sides at the negotiating table barely understand each other. I have little hope left that concillitation is possible in the nearest future and even less hope that justice will be served some day. This realpolitik makes me cringe to the moon.
5
Still wondering why I should be caring about the Ukraine at all. The world has a lot of problem, it shouldn't be up to the US or Americans to try to solve them all. 1000 people got slaughtered by Boko Haram in about a week, why aren't we intervening there? Americans don't care about the Ukraine, so don't drag this country into yet another quagmire while trying to fight a proxy war with a massive country with a huge military capable of starting nuclear war. Stay. Away.
44
The juvenile ron paul-esque "its not our war" nonsense should be filtered out of the NYT comments, they are really getting tedious...
YOU may not care about anyone else, but I and many others do, and allowing the worst of humanity - putin and countries like iran - to continue to roll over countries because they consider the US to be governed by weak, poor leadership is not acceptable to americans. YOU might think you speak for us, but you really don't.
YOU may not care about anyone else, but I and many others do, and allowing the worst of humanity - putin and countries like iran - to continue to roll over countries because they consider the US to be governed by weak, poor leadership is not acceptable to americans. YOU might think you speak for us, but you really don't.
11
Read up, why don't you. The Chadian army reported days ago success against Boko Haram in their battle to take back villages in the North. And I fully believe that there was US and Western help for the Chadian effort.
Read up, and then come back with an updated comment.
Read up, and then come back with an updated comment.
13
Bob - By all means rush and sign up and join the military so you can participate in this war which you want.
9
Well, Hollande has already set up mutually contradictory goals if he says he intends to "stop the fighting and guarantee the absolute territorial integrity" of Ukraine. Some sort of face-saving "federation" seems to be all that will work at this stage.
4
The United States should allow the parties to work this out themselves. Not everything is our fight.
43
The Russian-backed party does not want to negociate (they did not even show up at the latest round of negociations). So what next ?
If we weren't bogged down in our own created mess in the Middle East by the Bush/Cheney lies and fabrications the world situation wouldn't be so troubled. The blowback from it has left us without any effective might. Europe is basically defenseless dependent upon the U.S. and its security system . Putin can prey on Eastern Europe and pound his small chest and giant ego and creating grief and havoc at his pleasure.
5
Yes Europe is dependent on the US for security because we have failed to insist that European members of NATO expend 2% of their GDP on defense. As a result the US pays 75% of NATO costs while Europe hangs on to our coattails and is willing to fight to the last American.
Judyw is again posting confused & false disinformation - the US does not pay for 75% of Nato's costs but about 22% in direct funding - http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_67655.htm
9
KJ,
Thank you, once again, for refuting Judyw's relentless propaganda and incorrect facts.
It is most appreciated by those of us who seek the truth.
Thank you, once again, for refuting Judyw's relentless propaganda and incorrect facts.
It is most appreciated by those of us who seek the truth.
7
Yes, let’s throw more lethal weapons into an already enflamed situation. Sounds like typical militarized American diplomacy to me.
Reading this, I’m reminded of the quote: “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.” It’s just over a year ago that the Assistant Secretary of State, V. Nuland was on the Maidan Square in Kiev handing out snacks to the protesters. What was she thinking? What business does the US have in helping to overthrow legitimately elected leaders?
At some point, folks in Washington will renounce their sole-superpower pretensions and begin to understand the absolute limitations of military power. Hope they also discover that a corrupt stability is preferable to civil war.
It’s a mistake to believe that Russia will back down in the face of American weapons. Where will it end? Of all people, Mr. Kerry should understand the dangers involved in escalating conflict with an enemy which cares much more about a piece of territory than the American people.
Reading this, I’m reminded of the quote: “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.” It’s just over a year ago that the Assistant Secretary of State, V. Nuland was on the Maidan Square in Kiev handing out snacks to the protesters. What was she thinking? What business does the US have in helping to overthrow legitimately elected leaders?
At some point, folks in Washington will renounce their sole-superpower pretensions and begin to understand the absolute limitations of military power. Hope they also discover that a corrupt stability is preferable to civil war.
It’s a mistake to believe that Russia will back down in the face of American weapons. Where will it end? Of all people, Mr. Kerry should understand the dangers involved in escalating conflict with an enemy which cares much more about a piece of territory than the American people.
176
Ray Finch, the Russians have been doing pretty proving that, despite "the absolute limitations of military power," territorial integrity and sovereignty are far more limited than military power. I'm just thankful that FDR and Churchill weren't listening to folks like you in the 1930s.
But hey, good luck with those peace plans I'm sure you know aren't worth the paper they're written on. And yeah, let's keep up the focus on Victoria Nuland as the puppetmaster of the Ukrainian people's aspirations for a better life. Let's keep up the focus that all the --bleep-- going on in the world is all about us and our sins.
But hey, good luck with those peace plans I'm sure you know aren't worth the paper they're written on. And yeah, let's keep up the focus on Victoria Nuland as the puppetmaster of the Ukrainian people's aspirations for a better life. Let's keep up the focus that all the --bleep-- going on in the world is all about us and our sins.
14
Mitch - Not all of Ukraine shares the aspirations of W. Ukraine to be part of the EU and Westernized. That is why their is war in Ukraine. Not everyone has the same vision and E. Ukraine was given no choice or vote on the matter. W. Ukraine who took over the government conveniently outlawed any political party opposed to it - which were the parties supported in E. Ukraine.
2
Have you ever heard about the US debt? How do you intent to FUND a FOURTH simultaneous war?
2
Yet another unabashedly anti-Russian, never quoting mysterious "western sources" piece of trash excuse for reporting. Don't you guys get tired of just reporting what NATO and the White House tell you?
There is indeed a complicated story of an intimidated Russia which doesn't want to let go of what little power it still has in Ukraine, but also of cynical manipulation by greedy "Western" powers which would use Ukrainians as fodder in their crusade to give Russia a hard time, inch NATO weaponry closer to Russia, and open new markets to exploit.
This is not black and white at all. Lots of grey to go around, so how about doing some actual journalism
There is indeed a complicated story of an intimidated Russia which doesn't want to let go of what little power it still has in Ukraine, but also of cynical manipulation by greedy "Western" powers which would use Ukrainians as fodder in their crusade to give Russia a hard time, inch NATO weaponry closer to Russia, and open new markets to exploit.
This is not black and white at all. Lots of grey to go around, so how about doing some actual journalism
137
To Stephen Miller: I don't think this is "unabashedly anti-Russian," since Russia did take over Crimea even while denying it, and it doing the same talking now for eastern Ukraine. How about writing a short rebuttal on why this is not like the Crimean takeover, and why Russia is not sending in men and/or material to Eastern Ukraine?
18
Russia's recovery of Crimea, where a Russian Naval base is located, was in response to the coup de'-tat instigated by the US as demonstrated by an intercepted conversation of Victoria Nuland. Wouldn't say much for a country that would not defend its own military base. This would be like the US allowing rebels to take over Guantanamo.
1
No, this is not black and white. We don't fully know the intentions of the U.S. or of the future of the Ukraine if it were to enter NATO. That said, we do know Putin's history, anti-Western attitude, and that he's already made land-grabs in Georgia and, undeniably, the Crimean Peninsula. We also know that Russia is willing to take on significant costs, monetary and reputational (though they make an effort at operating under the guise of humanitarianism) to at the very least arm the rebels.
Most importantly, we know that the Ukraine's 1993 territorial integrity is contractually backed by the full might of the United States (and, for what it's worth, that ours is backed by them). That territory has been breached and even annexed by another nation-state.
As an independent who's sometimes left of the democrats, I think this is very black and white in terms of the U.S.'s obligations. What we know about Russia scares us about that which we don't know and we also know the U.S. has given it's word to protect the Ukraine. What else is there?
Most importantly, we know that the Ukraine's 1993 territorial integrity is contractually backed by the full might of the United States (and, for what it's worth, that ours is backed by them). That territory has been breached and even annexed by another nation-state.
As an independent who's sometimes left of the democrats, I think this is very black and white in terms of the U.S.'s obligations. What we know about Russia scares us about that which we don't know and we also know the U.S. has given it's word to protect the Ukraine. What else is there?
7
Boy, is this leadership ineffective over the Ukraine; It's a symphony of inaction, and sure to result in a much bigger conflagration and many many more deaths.
Kerry should resign and go away -- horribly ineffective.
Kerry should resign and go away -- horribly ineffective.
4
Is this going to be the Cuban Missile Crisis of 2015? It is dangerous for major powers to talk about continued warfare and at the same time have massive stockpiles of both tactical and strategic nuclear weapons. Cooler heads and diplomacy must be tried and must prevail! Every problem does not have a military solution involving those nations with enormous stockpiles of doomsday weapons!
36
"Every problem does not have a military solution"
As clearly proven in Iraq and Syria!
As clearly proven in Iraq and Syria!
The problem is, Putin is not a "cooler head" and never will be. End of the discussion.
1
Ukrainians should not expect much lethal aid from Mr. Obama. He can sure order Small Aid Kits dropped on the front-lines.
Ask the Syrians!
Ask the Syrians!
2
Our millions of tax dollars should be spent on Americans, not people we have nothing to do with.
Europe needs to be the ones addressing this and doing something about it, not us.
Europe needs to be the ones addressing this and doing something about it, not us.
77
The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances is a political agreement signed in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories relating to Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The Memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers, the Russian Federation, the United States of America, and the United Kingdom. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.[1]
The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan. As a result Ukraine gave up the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile between 1994 and 1996,[2][3] of which Ukraine had physical though not operational control.
The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan. As a result Ukraine gave up the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile between 1994 and 1996,[2][3] of which Ukraine had physical though not operational control.
14
But the document has no enforcement clause. It was never ratified by the signatories thus has really no legal force. Assurances are not "military guarantees", the Nuclear stockpile was never controlled by Ukraine who did not have the launch codes. Not as important a document as a lot of people want to believe it is.
1
The Budapest Memorandum is largely a restatement of assurances already defined in several other treaties bundled together specifically wrt Ukraine - the Non-proliferation Treaty, the CSCE Final Act and the United Nations Charter. Some opinions hold that although it does not guarantee action betaken by its signatories upon violation of its terms, it can still be used as a justification should those nations decide to act against Russia's violations of Ukraine's sovereignty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
5
As this article indicates, Putin's new "peace" proposals will probably not be worth much, and will mainly be directed at undermining the push for tougher sanctions. It is telling, however, that the diplomatic wheels are beginning to move again, just as the U.S. is about to decide on providing real military aid to Kyiv. That said, Merkel's follow-on trip to Moscow does not have to be a total waste. While there on Friday, she can take the opportunity to tell Putin how much she would be willing for Germany to pay Russia in WWII reparations, now that his clownish Duma is considering legislation on the issue.
6
I doubt Putin cares for what the West thinks. Putin is looking to undermine the West and proves Russia's importance in the world stage at whatever price.
A country that deprive its citizens of freedom cannot help spread it to the rest of the world.
A country that deprive its citizens of freedom cannot help spread it to the rest of the world.
9
I agree, the US spying on the world - including its own citizens - cannot pretend to be spreading anything good anywhere, ever. Freedom doesn't just mean being able to criticize the government, it also means being free from unreasonable invasion from authorities. Remember when we had a bill of rights and people thought it was important.
We no longer have anything on Russia - except maybe bigger databases of formerly private information.
We no longer have anything on Russia - except maybe bigger databases of formerly private information.
4
Stephen, are you joking by comparing freedom of speech in the US to that in Russia under Putin? Try publishing anti-Russian comments under your real name on the Channel 1 website, or running an anti-government blog on Livejournal and see where that get you in Russia.
11
This is a European issue that should be handled initially by European powers (e.g., France and Germany) including aid, arms, and political cover. The US can join the fray after Europe has proven it is in the game financially, militarily or however they choose to proceed. The US schedule is currently booked.
100
But it would not hurt -- which is to say it would HELP -- when the USA is part of the diplomatic negotiations. (Even assuming that the "US schedule is currently booked.")
2
Better yet, how about the neighbors of Ukraine weigh in. Belarus, Russia, Poland, Austria, Slovakia, Moldova, Romania, and Hungary all border Ukraine. Why do France and Germany get a say? Why does anybody even invite US opinion?
If there is crime in my neighborhood, do I call police in a different state? or continent?
If there is crime in my neighborhood, do I call police in a different state? or continent?
2
The CIA/NED provided $5 Billion to finance the coup and sent Victoria Nudelman to stir the pot and thereby set up the current situation -- the EU are American lapdogs and will only do what Uncle tells them to do, so this mess is entirely on the US doorstep.
2
Alexi Navalny has broken his court ordered house arrest and has removed his monitoring device put on by the authorities in Moscow. Navalny reports within Russia that all is not well with Putin and Russians. He reports that there are cracks is the much hyped by Western media support for Putin.
Russia is running out of money. A reserve of less than $400 billion is disappearing fast and if oil prices do not rebound, which it does not seem like it will soon, then Putin and his people will have to self fund their imperial adventure.
Has the US and the EU exhausted all sanction possibilities? Have we, or better yet, when will we seize Russian assets? When will we restrict Russians travel privileges, no entry for any Russian into any Western country.
And put the brakes on any US or Western company to do business with Putin's Russia. It drives me nuts to read how Warren Buffet is looking to make investments in Russia at this time! Why? How? I say do all this before we must consider lethal arms. It is just too bizarre to think that the US will have weapons and military advisors in Ukraine against Putin's Russia at the same time that American companies are conducting business with them!
Russia is running out of money. A reserve of less than $400 billion is disappearing fast and if oil prices do not rebound, which it does not seem like it will soon, then Putin and his people will have to self fund their imperial adventure.
Has the US and the EU exhausted all sanction possibilities? Have we, or better yet, when will we seize Russian assets? When will we restrict Russians travel privileges, no entry for any Russian into any Western country.
And put the brakes on any US or Western company to do business with Putin's Russia. It drives me nuts to read how Warren Buffet is looking to make investments in Russia at this time! Why? How? I say do all this before we must consider lethal arms. It is just too bizarre to think that the US will have weapons and military advisors in Ukraine against Putin's Russia at the same time that American companies are conducting business with them!
9
"Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." - Churchill
And so it would seem once again, complete with little green men who they claim aren't really there.
And so it would seem once again, complete with little green men who they claim aren't really there.
11
Not an enigma. Russia is following the pattern of thousands of years -- the aggressor.
12
In 1994 Ukraine gave avay 1240 nuclear missiles because USA promised to protect us. Now USA hestiates to give us 1000 "Javelins" to help us protect ourselves from Russia.
55
They were never your missiles. They always belonged to the USSR. They were worth nothing to Ukraine. The Launch codes were in Russia. They were Russia's missiles so in a sense you just gave back to Russia what was their property. Russia designed and built then, you were just a storage site. You gave up nothing as you could never use them without the launch codes -- which were in Russia.
17
The Budapest Memorandum was signed by the US, Russia, UK and Ukraine. The Memorandum dealt with the territorial integrity of Ukraine which was not to be impinged upon.
The US says Russia violated it, and maybe they did, but the Memorandum does not require the US or UK to actually do anything tangible if there is a violation.
Much ado about empty words and promises. Everyone makes them and everyone breaks them based on what is good for them. Only a fool would depend on them. The implications are clear.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-06/ukraine-gave-up-nuclea...
The US says Russia violated it, and maybe they did, but the Memorandum does not require the US or UK to actually do anything tangible if there is a violation.
Much ado about empty words and promises. Everyone makes them and everyone breaks them based on what is good for them. Only a fool would depend on them. The implications are clear.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-06/ukraine-gave-up-nuclea...
9
Ukraine had no real alternative but to give up nuclear weapons. 20 years old promises are nothing, not the 1st time US would not keep one. besides it is a civil war, surely backed by Russia on one side and West on other but most combatants are Ukraine citizens. nobody guaranteed to defend Ukraine against a civil war. You forcefully remove lawful President, you risk civil war and state disintegration. in 2004 it was resolved via election, in 2014 some decided that elections are not good, so there you have it now.
This is a very crucial issue, and it threatens to escalate into a direct conflict with Russia. I don't feel that America needs to get involved with yet another war, especially considering the grave consequences of nuclear potentials.
This is absolutely dangerous !!
This is absolutely dangerous !!
92
Russia is today an aggressive, paranoid country that is a menace to all its neighbors. Perhaps we should just allow what is basically a lawless gangster state to destabilize all of Eastern Europe?
Beware. Ukraine still has a depressingly dismal ranking in various country-by-country ratings for corruption (in one, #142 out of 175). Hardly encouraging, along with the currrent regime's essential disregard for eastern Ukraine's linguistic & other cultural features.
41
This isn't about Ukraine. It's about Russia. You are standing on a freeway looking the wrong way for traffic!
11
Well, considering Yanukovych and band of thieving hordes have only been out of office for 11 months, what would you expect?
It will take years before Ukraine can root out all the corruption that has been endemic since independence in 1991.
To think that a new president and parliament, who have not been in power that long, to magically fix things is rather naive, to say the least.
It will take years before Ukraine can root out all the corruption that has been endemic since independence in 1991.
To think that a new president and parliament, who have not been in power that long, to magically fix things is rather naive, to say the least.
9
And what the "corruption ranking" has to do with Russia attacking Ukraine and shelling Ukraine's cities? Moreover, what's Russia's corruption ranking?
4
Hopefully Kerry is pressing Poroshenko to make good on his offer of a seriously autonomous S. E. Ukrainian region.
The only other thing needed is for Yatsenyuk to stifle his insistence for a Ukraine within NATO.
These two points are essential, if Ukraine wants to remain intact.
The only other thing needed is for Yatsenyuk to stifle his insistence for a Ukraine within NATO.
These two points are essential, if Ukraine wants to remain intact.
59
Ukraine not being in NATO is what allows Russia to attack it with impunity. Fear of the same situation (Russia stoking internal divisions and making not-so-surreptitious incursions), is why the Baltic states are such eager and currently relieved members of NATO. Ukraine must join NATO if it is to be preserved and protected from Russian aggression and imperialism.
10
Why?
After they took up arms against the legal and legitimate government in Kiev, they gave up and and all rights to any self government.
No country should acquiesce to treason within its own borders.
After they took up arms against the legal and legitimate government in Kiev, they gave up and and all rights to any self government.
No country should acquiesce to treason within its own borders.
14
if Russia to occupy California and then press to give it an autonomy would US people agree?
7
Western Ukraine is willing to fight Russia. I don't believe they can win, but at least they are willing to try. Give them the weapons they need to do battle.
4
A-Men. They can easily win, because in the end NATO and the US are/should-be there.
4
In the video that accompanies this story by Michael Gordon, Secretary of State John Kerry calls the Kremlin-backed militants "so-called separatists." Kerry is right to qualify them in this manner.
Unfortunately, the Times has been playing right into the Kremlin's bellicose playbook by persistently shifting between the terms "rebels" and "separatists." Re-read Gordon's piece and count how many times each word appears. However, switching between these terms doesn't get at the truth: those who are fighting Ukrainian government forces in Eastern Ukraine are a HYBRID army made up of Chechen and Russian mercenaries, locals, Russian conscripts, and Russian intelligence officers. Moreover, most (if not all) are being paid to fight through the funneling of shadow funds, provided directly from the Kremlin, or with its backing, into Eastern Ukraine.
Yes, it's expedient for the Times to use the terms "rebels" and "separatists." But the reality is far more complex, and only a more complex phrasing such as "Kremlin-backed militants" gets to the core of this reality.
Unfortunately, the Times has been playing right into the Kremlin's bellicose playbook by persistently shifting between the terms "rebels" and "separatists." Re-read Gordon's piece and count how many times each word appears. However, switching between these terms doesn't get at the truth: those who are fighting Ukrainian government forces in Eastern Ukraine are a HYBRID army made up of Chechen and Russian mercenaries, locals, Russian conscripts, and Russian intelligence officers. Moreover, most (if not all) are being paid to fight through the funneling of shadow funds, provided directly from the Kremlin, or with its backing, into Eastern Ukraine.
Yes, it's expedient for the Times to use the terms "rebels" and "separatists." But the reality is far more complex, and only a more complex phrasing such as "Kremlin-backed militants" gets to the core of this reality.
64
Exactly, and the strings are being pulled from Moscow.
15
The revolt in E. Ukraine started shortly after Maidan riots got going. It was sui generis to the East, As for Chechens being in their army, you must have missed the story about the Chechen warlord who was fighting with Kiev and got killed while fighting with Semenchenko in the Donbas Battalions - Brigadier General of Ichkeria Munaev Isa.
Both sides have fighters from other countries.
Both sides have fighters from other countries.
2
So, you've confirmed that Russian conscripts and Russian intelligence officers are actively operating on Ukrainian soil.
Moreover, false equivalences don't get anyone very far. Yes, some foreign-born combatants are fighting on the Ukrainian government's side, but the command and control is under the umbrella of a democratically-elected government led by President Petro Porsohenko. In contrast, Mr. Zakharchenko is the Kremlin's chosen warlord and the self-installed "prime minister" of the so-called DNR, a puppet regime.
Lastly, I recommend to all a moving article published this week in the Kyiv Post, by a Canadian journalist, about the Chechen veteran who fought and died for Ukraine's sovereignty. His name was Isa Munajev, and he and his family suffered unspeakable atrocities at the hands of Putin's military forces during the Chechen War. Here's the link:
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/brad-bird-personal-memories-of-che...
Moreover, false equivalences don't get anyone very far. Yes, some foreign-born combatants are fighting on the Ukrainian government's side, but the command and control is under the umbrella of a democratically-elected government led by President Petro Porsohenko. In contrast, Mr. Zakharchenko is the Kremlin's chosen warlord and the self-installed "prime minister" of the so-called DNR, a puppet regime.
Lastly, I recommend to all a moving article published this week in the Kyiv Post, by a Canadian journalist, about the Chechen veteran who fought and died for Ukraine's sovereignty. His name was Isa Munajev, and he and his family suffered unspeakable atrocities at the hands of Putin's military forces during the Chechen War. Here's the link:
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/brad-bird-personal-memories-of-che...
14
As long as they insist the Kiev will not have to give up any territory they cannot achieve peace. Too much blood has been shed and there is so much hatred between DPR/LPR that nothing short of freedom from Kiev will work. Border cannot be so sacred that it causes war and that is what the Europeans must understand.
They forget that Putin is not the final arbiter in the peace process and they should make an effort to talk to those who are actually running the war, Until they are willing to sit down with Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky or their accredited representatives, the talks will go nowhere. You can't make peace unless you get all the participants at the table. Why are they so afraid to talk to the leaders of the DPR and LPR - Do they think that these people are not worthy of their presence? With that attitude you wont get peace.
And you must persuader Poroshenko and his cohorts that they will never get the war torn oblasts back. They would be smarter to let them go - get peace and get on with reforming their country. Until they see that they will not get peace or reform.
If Holland, Merkel and Kerry want peace, then they must sit down with all the participants, not just the ones they prefer to talk to - but EVERYONE must be at the table.
They forget that Putin is not the final arbiter in the peace process and they should make an effort to talk to those who are actually running the war, Until they are willing to sit down with Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky or their accredited representatives, the talks will go nowhere. You can't make peace unless you get all the participants at the table. Why are they so afraid to talk to the leaders of the DPR and LPR - Do they think that these people are not worthy of their presence? With that attitude you wont get peace.
And you must persuader Poroshenko and his cohorts that they will never get the war torn oblasts back. They would be smarter to let them go - get peace and get on with reforming their country. Until they see that they will not get peace or reform.
If Holland, Merkel and Kerry want peace, then they must sit down with all the participants, not just the ones they prefer to talk to - but EVERYONE must be at the table.
30
Russia signed a treaty that guaranteed their borders. Those borders would still be NOT in question if the puppet Yanukovich was still sitting in Kiev. Putin cannot decide since his peon is not in Ukraine taking orders that he can then decide to redraw the borders to his liking.
How about I come to your house with a lot of men and weapons and tell you that you must leave it or we'll force you out. No different whatsoever.
How about I come to your house with a lot of men and weapons and tell you that you must leave it or we'll force you out. No different whatsoever.
37
Ah, appeasement has such a successful history. Duh.
18
See the statements earlier about Budapest. We never "guaranteed" their borders in a military sense. What we said is that we would go to the UN. People like you need to read the memorandum before you make up things about it which are not true. There is no enforcement clause in Budapest and it is a non-enforcible. It is just a feel-good document which commits to nothing. It makes promises which no signature has an obligation to uphold.
IT IS NOT A TREATY. It is an unforcible memorandum which required no ratification - thus not binding on anyone.
IT IS NOT A TREATY. It is an unforcible memorandum which required no ratification - thus not binding on anyone.
2
I am not certain how much $16.4 million would buy in east Ukraine during wartime but I expect the prices would be seriously inflated to reflect the war and supply constraints - real or artificial. Would it not be smarter to purchase blankets and other goods in the USA and send container-loads with relief agencies into east Ukraine to distribute these goods in open markets? The current rebel regime ruling Donbas region would need to authorize the donation. That may be the only problem in transporting goods into Donetsk and other cities and villages in Donbas under rebel control.
4
Is there any reason to trust the Russians or for them to trust the west? For a long time the Russians have feared the west and justifiably so. Likewise, we have mistrusted the Russians since the time of the czars. The current situation represents a long continuum and is not likely to end. Unfortunately for Ukraine and its people (including ethnic Russians) they are trapped in the middle.
3
Then the superiority of western countries on the air will just vanish.
And who would risk the whole world stability for this?