The hypocrisy of the current Obama administration (and those of the preceding US presidential administrations) regarding Saudia Arabia is astounding.
It’s not often that the unelected leader of a country which publicly flogs dissidents and beheads people for sorcery wins such glowing praise from American officials.
It’s not often that the unelected leader of a country which publicly flogs dissidents and beheads people for sorcery wins such glowing praise from American officials.
7
Saudi Arabia, a sexist country. It's sad the way they stop women from living an equal life to their male counterparts. I'm so lucky to live in the United States. Thanks, fellow Americans, for respecting women!
3
In Saudi Arabia, women are the queen of the house and her husband graduated from the house only to go to places that you can enjoy and with her husband, they are like the queen with her bodyguard We do not care for the comments from the neighboring countries, we are receptive to this decision is in our interest
1
Keep enjoying the oil money, with others hard work.
1
Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is disgusting and the epitome of shortsightedness, and it is bound to tarnish our standing in the long run (it actually already has but that'll be clearer as more time passes). That cursed oil ... without which Saudi Arabia would still be tribal and undeserving of much attention, not to mention its status as one of our best allies. It is a paternalistic monarchy that lacks faith in its own people, who are deemed too immature to be trusted to decide their own fate. That's why they can't have democracy.
Women = chattel and nothing more. Open your eyes, folks. They put on a nice show for foreign audiences, and sadly, it seems to work. There's no real pressure put on them to reform and join the modern world, and we enable that. Women can't drive (amongst other things) because they're not trusted; because their husbands and fathers and brothers think they'll go off and cheat, elope, or head straight for the border. They're enslaved in their own country - and that's Saudi women I speak of ... non-Saudi women are treated incredibly poorly.
And the primary reason that Iran is Saudi Arabia's sworn enemy is due to the Saudi's financial backing of Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war (it's simplistic to see it merely as the Sunni world v. The Shi'a world).
Good riddance.
Women = chattel and nothing more. Open your eyes, folks. They put on a nice show for foreign audiences, and sadly, it seems to work. There's no real pressure put on them to reform and join the modern world, and we enable that. Women can't drive (amongst other things) because they're not trusted; because their husbands and fathers and brothers think they'll go off and cheat, elope, or head straight for the border. They're enslaved in their own country - and that's Saudi women I speak of ... non-Saudi women are treated incredibly poorly.
And the primary reason that Iran is Saudi Arabia's sworn enemy is due to the Saudi's financial backing of Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war (it's simplistic to see it merely as the Sunni world v. The Shi'a world).
Good riddance.
7
I guess the NYTimes forgot the 1973 Arab oil embargo that gave us gasoline shortages and lines at gasoline stations, while disrupting the world's economy. The reason was Arab and Saudi anger for U.S.A. and Europe supplying ammunition to Israel when it was invaded by its Arab neighbors.
The smiling happy picture of this medieval throwback doesn't change my view of the Saudi royal family.
The smiling happy picture of this medieval throwback doesn't change my view of the Saudi royal family.
8
The US government must have been upset when the Saudi's made oil deals with the likes of China and Russia after the USA engineers used their technology to find and develop their oil fields of gold. If they had, instead, signed a 100 year loyalty pact to sell oil only to the USA I wonder which direction the politics would have moved.
The Saudi's could do a heck of a lot more to end middle eastern terrorism.
The Saudi's could do a heck of a lot more to end middle eastern terrorism.
1
Saudi Arabia was considered to be our ally, but in fact they are moving on the side of ISIS. Though new king is a brother of previous experienced one, he may not cope with rebels, which definitely will take efforts to corrupt weakened country.
4
He had a privileged and long life so we say goodbye without much sorrow. Saudi Arabia is both privileged and cursed with their luck of sitting on vast oil reserves and being the birth place of Islam. These two are keeping the country from taking advantage of real opportunities for progress especially being the guardians of the Holy Land. Islam is a major business for the country and that's why its leaders have had the impossible task of opening up the country to the larger world in fear of losing the PURITY. Its almost like the dilemma of being a lead actor in Hollywood and being gay. Not easy to do and the charade continues.
1
One corrupt ruler gone and time for the next to take its place and start where he left- corrupt Islam and spread ideology of hatred in rest of the world with uncle Sam watching and only looking for its economic interest. I think 'cautious modernizer' was a deliberate tease from the reporter.
1
The evil that some men must NEVER be allowed to be buried with them so here is a more honest obituary of King Abdullah:
1. He funded Sunni extremist violence. They in turned murdered and maimed innocent Sunnis, Shia, Christians, and others around the world (including in the U.S., Europe, Syria, Russia, and on and on.)
2. He imprisoned hundred of reformers, gave them long prison sentences and tortured them. Raif Badawi, the Saudi cartoonist, has gotten 50 of the 1000 lashes that he was sentenced to.
3. He was a misogynist. Women have limited rights and are systematically oppressed in Saudi Arabia. Right now, there are two Saudi women (that we know of) who have charged with terrorism for violating the driving ban against women. A Burmese woman proclaiming her innocence was just publicly beheaded for the murder and sexual assault of a young girl (likely daughter), even though the crime more likely committed by her husband or another man. His ex-wife and four of his adult daughters accused him of keeping them imprisoned against their will in one of his palaces. They barely get enough food and are physically abused by their guards reporting to their half-brother.
4. He destroyed any hope of democracy in Egypt by instigating the coup against Morsi.
I am sure that I missed more of he destruction that he wrecked upon the world, but really, not by much.
1. He funded Sunni extremist violence. They in turned murdered and maimed innocent Sunnis, Shia, Christians, and others around the world (including in the U.S., Europe, Syria, Russia, and on and on.)
2. He imprisoned hundred of reformers, gave them long prison sentences and tortured them. Raif Badawi, the Saudi cartoonist, has gotten 50 of the 1000 lashes that he was sentenced to.
3. He was a misogynist. Women have limited rights and are systematically oppressed in Saudi Arabia. Right now, there are two Saudi women (that we know of) who have charged with terrorism for violating the driving ban against women. A Burmese woman proclaiming her innocence was just publicly beheaded for the murder and sexual assault of a young girl (likely daughter), even though the crime more likely committed by her husband or another man. His ex-wife and four of his adult daughters accused him of keeping them imprisoned against their will in one of his palaces. They barely get enough food and are physically abused by their guards reporting to their half-brother.
4. He destroyed any hope of democracy in Egypt by instigating the coup against Morsi.
I am sure that I missed more of he destruction that he wrecked upon the world, but really, not by much.
5
This will cause oil production to increase and prices to drop further. Abdullah was the genius that was able to get oil prices up high enough to support thousands of Royal Family members (in an effort to placate them). With him gone (he has not been running things for a while hence the lower oil prices), oil prices will plunge even further because the Royal family will plunge back into corruption and side selling like it used to ...
2
The notion that the moniker of "cautious reformer" could be credibly applied to someone whose government systematically beheaded its citizens for crimes including practicing sorcery is so preposterous it beggars belief. This piece warrants the attention of the public editor.
3
My uppermost thought is that I'm thankful for this venue that offeres generally respective and often informative responses.
From the human interest side of things, I am fascinated by the money being spoken of, and there is also a lot of intrigue with someone who scurries to the building of edifices and jobs to earn loyalty to the same person who was so rigid.
I don't completely understand the US allegiance to this country but I am motivated to learn more, and more so since I have been reading about how common decapitation is there.
Thanks..
From the human interest side of things, I am fascinated by the money being spoken of, and there is also a lot of intrigue with someone who scurries to the building of edifices and jobs to earn loyalty to the same person who was so rigid.
I don't completely understand the US allegiance to this country but I am motivated to learn more, and more so since I have been reading about how common decapitation is there.
Thanks..
King Abdullah may have brought some progress for the men of his country, but the women remain victims.
1
The world lost another forward-thinking diplomat.
2
Barack Obama expressed his condolences, saying King Abdullah "was always candid and had the courage of his convictions." What hilarious praise. Imagine applying for a job with that in your letter of recommendation!
2
If it looks like a despot, rules like a despot, murders like a despot, and has access to oil and ties to the Bush clan, then it must be one of our allies.
8
"Shrewd force" indeed. He placed the education of his country's youth in the hands of the mullahs who teach the radical form of Islam now plaguing the world. All this so he could keep his pots of money.
Now that the chickens have come home to roost, his kingdom is building a wall to keep the savages out. Other than that, he and his cowardly princes haven't lifted a finger to take on this menace. His clan is hugely responsible for much of the heart ache in the world. Horrible, horrible people.
Now that the chickens have come home to roost, his kingdom is building a wall to keep the savages out. Other than that, he and his cowardly princes haven't lifted a finger to take on this menace. His clan is hugely responsible for much of the heart ache in the world. Horrible, horrible people.
11
Wahhabism is the same brand of Islam that ISIS, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban practice. In Saudi Arabia, the blogger who "insulted Islam" was sentenced to 1,000 lashes - a public flogging. In Paris, satirists who "insulted Islam" were murdered in cold blood. It appears that the "terrorists" were practicing "real Islam."
8
I met with the new Saudi king in 2000 when he was the governor of Riyadh. His tea server carried a large pistol on his belt as he served us tea. You reached his office by going through several switch-back hallways for security. This was to protect the governor of Riyadh against his own people? It makes one wonder the depth of paranoia in the Saudi royal family?
3
I can't help marveling at all the American commenters who condemn the US government for its alliance with the repressive country of which King Abdullah was the leader, as if it were something they were completely disconnected from. The fact is, that anyone not living in a cabin in the woods and trapping squirrels for dinner is entirely complicit in this, as our "deal" with Saudi Arabia is absolutely integral to the functioning of the economy that enables our comfortable lifestyles.
Nobody likes to think about it, but much of the prosperity we Americans are privileged to enjoy has historically come at the expense of less fortunate people in other parts of the world, in many ways facilitated by the hegemonistic and morally questionable international policies of our government. Unless we are willing to give up our cheap gas, cheap clothing, cheap bananas, etc., etc., etc., what right do we really have to express our outrage at the conditions people live under where these products are sourced?
Nobody likes to think about it, but much of the prosperity we Americans are privileged to enjoy has historically come at the expense of less fortunate people in other parts of the world, in many ways facilitated by the hegemonistic and morally questionable international policies of our government. Unless we are willing to give up our cheap gas, cheap clothing, cheap bananas, etc., etc., etc., what right do we really have to express our outrage at the conditions people live under where these products are sourced?
5
There are plenty of Americans who will give up all those cheap things so that others may be treated fairly. It's really not so hard. And you feel better about yourself.
5
Unfortunately, David, such people, to the extent they exist at all, represent a minute percentage of the population, and are likely people of means who can afford to pay more for things like fair-trade goods. On the contrary, the general mentality in this country is that we are wholly entitled to the lifestyles we enjoy, and have no obligation to share the pie with others, be it in other countries or our own. We are a spoiled, selfish culture, and if anything, the trend is toward more selfishness.
1
King Abdullah was not reformer but cofounder of Al Qaeda and ISIS.
It is deeply disturbing to hear Kerry describing him as our ally.
It is deeply disturbing to hear Kerry describing him as our ally.
5
King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia was a ruthless dictator and hard core Wahabi Extremist. Under his watch, Saudi gang attacked the USA (9/11); Bush-Cheney forced to invade Iraq, and destroyed the ancient civilization, US lost her image in the world along with 5000 American lives and million Iraqis. He was a really puppet like almost all the Saudi Kings; allowed America to control the oil politics; and as usual America allowed him to expand his Wahhabism; the extremist Islam around the globe and control the oil income in billions for his 400 family members. Powerful Al-Qaeda and super extreme ISIS are the gift of the Saudi King. Thanks God, Obama-Hillary only heard his advice of creating havoc, misery and destruction in Syria, but did not accept his wish of invading Iran and destroyed the entire Middle-East.
6
Well, on the one hand it is very sad news for the United States, as the king Abdullah was a close partner of America, but on the other hand there is a chance that Saudi Arabia will be no longer live by their own terrible laws and castigate bloggers and become a little more democratic ...
2
While travelling on a train in Saudi Arabia, I was suddenly forcibly removed by two policemen for committing the appalling sin of sitting next to a woman passenger. I wasn't aware at the time that this egregious act was a sin in that part of the world. While recognising that Western societal values leave a lot to be desired in certain circumstances, not allowing the sexes to sit together on a train is nothing less than absurd.
7
"The Onion" headline said it best:
King Abdullah dies when he hears oil fell below $50.00 a barrel.
Not really an "ally" as much as an "oilly", don't you think?
King Abdullah dies when he hears oil fell below $50.00 a barrel.
Not really an "ally" as much as an "oilly", don't you think?
3
One thing gets more clear every day. Organized religions - all of them - are the enemies of women around the world. Women make up over half the world's population. It's time for them - and the men who love them - to stand up and shout NO MORE! Keep religion and government out of women's bodies.
10
Three cheers for the mullah of medieval Middle Easternism !
8
Pardon my cynicism, but King Abdullah tried to balance his grip on oil money and the grip his mullah's have on the country. To bring the country into the 21st Century, the "privilege" men have must be taken away, but Saudi men will hardly give away their "rights" to grant women full autonomy - the mullahs, abetted by the royalty, have seen to that. Saudi Arabia is a cesspool of a medieval mindset cushioned by unbelievable wealth. No one who has any privilege there is giving up his (note, no her) due.
The cancer of fanatical Islam will eventually kill them, thanks to their myopic grip on power and upholding the "pure" faith. The Muslim psychopaths are at the gates because even the pure Islam Saudi Arabia protects is not pure enough and there will eventually be a new devil replacing the old devil. Money and power is the real religion. I wonder if King Abdullah is being serviced by virgins in heaven? Nice work if you can get it.
The cancer of fanatical Islam will eventually kill them, thanks to their myopic grip on power and upholding the "pure" faith. The Muslim psychopaths are at the gates because even the pure Islam Saudi Arabia protects is not pure enough and there will eventually be a new devil replacing the old devil. Money and power is the real religion. I wonder if King Abdullah is being serviced by virgins in heaven? Nice work if you can get it.
8
He was hardly a force for change in his backward and corrupt country. He continued misogyny, torture and beheadings at rates that even Texans would find disturbing. (When he came to Texas to visit W, he even refused to allow his plane to be issued landing instructions by a female air traffic controller.) His support for spreading Wahabism throughout the world included funding the construction of mosques in the US and other countries as a way to secure 'stability' from fundamentalist/terrorists at home.
Fortunately the family is dying out. Sooner is better. Unfortunately we will see a very militant successor take power when they go and we will reap the harvest our self-interest policies have shown.
The same stupid mistakes over and over.
Fortunately the family is dying out. Sooner is better. Unfortunately we will see a very militant successor take power when they go and we will reap the harvest our self-interest policies have shown.
The same stupid mistakes over and over.
7
Or, as someone wrote on Twitter: Aside from all the flogging, beheading and oppression of women he was a real swell chap,
16
Tje hypocritical stance of western nations towards Saudi Arabia constantly enrages. Here we have all the leaders of the West including the President of the USA mourning the loss of King Abdullah who for all intents and purposes along with his "royal" sons and brothers ia almost as ruthless as ISIS which everybody fears so much. Why does every one give a pass to Saudi Arabia - it is a Moslem country which keeps its population down trodden by flogging, beheading and other means. King Abdullah and his successor is no better or worse than Assad is in Syria - he just sat on all that "black gold" which we in the West are so afraid of getting in the wrong hands. Shameful.
11
The majority of the commenters to this article denounce King Abdullah's reign because they only look at Saudi society through the lens of Western societies values. He need to literally "walk on egg shells" during his reign to advance the (to our Western eyes) modest changes he did make (while keeping the Kingdom relatively stable). As the present Saudi Kingdom's political structure only dates from the early 20th century, the denouncers should look at the "progress" and the speed that Western political civilization evolved since, say, the 1100's. Was Western civilization fully liberated (from religious and autocratic "leaders) and progressive from the 1100's through even the 1600's? 600 years as compared to less than 100.
That the evolving Saudi society benefitted from King Abdullah's reign is a fact (maybe not to Westerners, but within the society itself). The hope is that King Salman will continue to "nudge" the Kingdom along in a positive manner.
That the evolving Saudi society benefitted from King Abdullah's reign is a fact (maybe not to Westerners, but within the society itself). The hope is that King Salman will continue to "nudge" the Kingdom along in a positive manner.
11
Man, look how long the American people have gone since the sixties. That's progress!
Your comment is based on the false premise that the people in Saudi Arabia have a say in the government.
And your theory about Saudia Arabia being backward because it's new is cultural relativism at its most pernicious. Many people in the Muslim world see the naked emperors for what they are.
And your theory about Saudia Arabia being backward because it's new is cultural relativism at its most pernicious. Many people in the Muslim world see the naked emperors for what they are.
6
I've spent a lot of time in the kingdom and seen lots of progress . What most Americans don't understand about Saudi Arabia would fill many books as evidenced by some of the comments below. First of all Saudi Arabia is the heart of Islam and held to a very high standard of behavior by the worlds millions of Muslims.
I wont excuse many injustices of the current and past regimes ( and there are many) but Abdullah was one who moved the ball forward not backward.
I wont excuse many injustices of the current and past regimes ( and there are many) but Abdullah was one who moved the ball forward not backward.
5
Wow, the Times did some amazing spin in this article - the man was a dictator over a country that is - IS!!! - truly horrible for many people, especially women. I don't even know what the Times considers his "moderate reforms"? Pardoning a teenage girl who was raped? That was very nice of him (that was sarcasm for anyone who missed it).
I would prefer to see the U.S. NOT send any representatives to his funeral.
I would prefer to see the U.S. NOT send any representatives to his funeral.
7
Reshaped Saudi Arabia back into the 7th century. What a a great achievement! I can't believe that the NYT doesn't have the guts to call it like it is. The only think he has achieved is pumping out lizard juice and making a boat load of money in the bargain, thanks to our addiction to that lizard juice.
7
It seems some are keen on taking down the image of King Abdullah as a reformer and agent of change in Saudi Arabia. To those who would denigrate his rule I would just remind them that in Saudi Arabia’s history there was a time when beheadings occurred on average 5 times a month, when any dissent was punished by 1000 public lashings, and when woman could not vote. Oh, wait… all of that happened last year.
9
One can only hope that the world wakes up, finds a better source of power and goes back to ignoring the Saudis. They are the leaders of one of the world's worst societies.
6
Let’s hope oil prices stay low. America has become the world’s largest oil producer. Though it does not export crude oil, it now imports much less, creating a lot of spare supply. The Saudis and their Gulf allies have decided not to sacrifice their own market share to restore the price. They could curb production sharply, but the main benefits would go to countries they detest such as Iran and Russia. Saudi Arabia can tolerate lower oil prices quite easily. It has $900 billion in reserves. Its own oil costs very little (around $5-6 per barrel) to get out of the ground.
The main effect of this is on the riskiest and most vulnerable bits of the oil industry. These include American frackers who have borrowed heavily on the expectation of continuing high prices. They also include Western oil companies with high-cost projects involving drilling in deep water or in the Arctic, or dealing with maturing and increasingly expensive fields such as the North Sea. But the greatest pain is in countries where the regimes are dependent on a high oil price to pay for costly foreign adventures and expensive social programs. These include Russia (which is already hit by Western sanctions following its meddling in Ukraine) and Iran (which is paying to keep the Assad regime afloat in Syria). Optimists think economic pain may make these countries more amenable to international pressure. Pessimists fear that when cornered, they may lash out in desperation.
The main effect of this is on the riskiest and most vulnerable bits of the oil industry. These include American frackers who have borrowed heavily on the expectation of continuing high prices. They also include Western oil companies with high-cost projects involving drilling in deep water or in the Arctic, or dealing with maturing and increasingly expensive fields such as the North Sea. But the greatest pain is in countries where the regimes are dependent on a high oil price to pay for costly foreign adventures and expensive social programs. These include Russia (which is already hit by Western sanctions following its meddling in Ukraine) and Iran (which is paying to keep the Assad regime afloat in Syria). Optimists think economic pain may make these countries more amenable to international pressure. Pessimists fear that when cornered, they may lash out in desperation.
Spare me the eulogies. First, he was a "king." What century are we in? Aren't over absolute monarchs by now?
Second, he presided over a Medieval state (hence the "king" part) with Dark Age social and political institutions, beholden to Sharia "law," and trapped by fealty to delusional religious authority. People are still beheaded publicly, flogged, and mutilated as "punishment" for such awful crimes as being a women driving a car, being a woman in the company of a man who is not a relative, or -- Allah forbid! -- blogging.
Third, the Saudi kingdom is an incubator of Islamist extremism, and has been for decades. Where was Osama bin Laden from? Where did 15/19 hijackers on 9/11 come from? Yes, you guessed it, from the kingdom under its "progressive" absolute king from the Middle Ages.
No tears shed here.
Second, he presided over a Medieval state (hence the "king" part) with Dark Age social and political institutions, beholden to Sharia "law," and trapped by fealty to delusional religious authority. People are still beheaded publicly, flogged, and mutilated as "punishment" for such awful crimes as being a women driving a car, being a woman in the company of a man who is not a relative, or -- Allah forbid! -- blogging.
Third, the Saudi kingdom is an incubator of Islamist extremism, and has been for decades. Where was Osama bin Laden from? Where did 15/19 hijackers on 9/11 come from? Yes, you guessed it, from the kingdom under its "progressive" absolute king from the Middle Ages.
No tears shed here.
12
The picture of the King with Bush says it all...this was no voice of modernity. To think that oil could give the reactionary ideas and practices of this King's government any legitimacy is alarming. But his ideas and beliefs, founded on mountains of human rights violations, was invited into all the courts and nations of power--walking to a President's private office. Money talks while human rights walks.
3
"Who Reshaped Saudi Arabia"
--- but not in a good way.
--- but not in a good way.
The Saudis are not our friends. They contribute millions every US election to both parties. They have paid for every presidential library for decades. They know that in the US money talks and buys influence. When Bush Jr was trying to figure which way was up they paid him 2 million for a dry well he owned. That sealed his friendship with the Bushes. The list goes on and on. When will we learn? Does anyone remember when Saddam Hussein was our buddy? He slaughtered his people and we looked the other way until we need an excuse to get rid of him.
4
A sadistic Islamic theocracy that is a staunch ally of the United States. Well, that's par for the course. If a Communist country engaged in human rights abuses only a quarter as egregious as those perpetrated by our theocratic allies, the U.S. Government would get all kinds of angry and American politicians would keep saying how we love freedom, we're freedom-lovers, etc. If a pro-U.S. theocracy does commits atrocities, it's winked at.
11
What a great quote with which to end this intriguing article. Do the authors suggest we watch closely for changes in Saudi law? Surely Abdullah had a rejoinder. Yet he seemed to have been a reflective man, so perhaps he simply smiled, perhaps a little sadly. Yes, sometimes it takes a lot of funerals before before significant change occurs.
This is sad for the Middle East. The King was certainly more important than the USA in the past six years for keeping a more stable Middle East. With Obama at war with Israel and father of the Arab Spring, it puts more pressure on the Kingdom to maintain peace in the region. Obama is the weakest President since 1933 who can't be counted on to work for a more stable, more secure, and more peaceful Middle East. RIP for the King and the Kingdom and their transition with King Salman.
2
The Salafist interpretation of Islam which is official in Saudi Arabia is the most reactionary, violent interpretation of that faith and the source of much jihadist terrorism. 16 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11/2001 came from Saudi Arabia. It is generally accepted that elements of the Saudi government have been instrumental in the formation of both Al Qaeda and Isis. The Saudi justice system recently issued a sentence of 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes (50 per week over 20 weeks) to a journalist for the crime of blogging. Beheading is a standard punishment, with at least 14 individuals beheaded in August 2014 alone. Women have virtually no rights in this society, they are not even allowed to drive. Saudi Arabia is horribly discriminatory to its many guest workers from third world countries.
In short, Saudi Arabia is one of the most dangerous, backward, brutal societies in the world. It is disgraceful how closely the United States is tied to this kingdom. Abdullah did essentially nothing to change it other than maybe a few cosmetic reforms. Saudi Arabia needs a democratic revolution, not a fawning eulogy for a feudal ruler.
In short, Saudi Arabia is one of the most dangerous, backward, brutal societies in the world. It is disgraceful how closely the United States is tied to this kingdom. Abdullah did essentially nothing to change it other than maybe a few cosmetic reforms. Saudi Arabia needs a democratic revolution, not a fawning eulogy for a feudal ruler.
10
Why does The Times refer to Saudi Arabia as the "center of the Islamic faith?"
As a student of things Arab, I find that intellectually offensive. Do you say this because you perceive Saudi Arabia to be more homogeneous in religious practices? Because of particular practices there? Saudi Arabia is hardly the intellectual, theological center of Islam. And the idea that it is, is offensive to Muslim theologians.
As a student of things Arab, I find that intellectually offensive. Do you say this because you perceive Saudi Arabia to be more homogeneous in religious practices? Because of particular practices there? Saudi Arabia is hardly the intellectual, theological center of Islam. And the idea that it is, is offensive to Muslim theologians.
3
I believe they referred to Saudi Arabia as the center of the Islamic faith because Islam’s holiest sites, Mecca and Medina, are in the country.
4
Can you say this on Islam's holiest cities Mecca and Medina? I guess you will not
1
There appear in this section a variety of emotional responses with which I sympathize, but which dismiss the reality and dangers of this powderkeg area.
I'm reminded of the fable about the frogs who wanted a king.
https://aesopsfables.wordpress.com/the-frogs-who-desired-a-king/
Thoughtful people have wondered what will happen when this aging monarch died, and now we will find out. We despair of a world ruled by common sense and compassion, while we watch it become ever more fragmented and hostile and prone to the depredations of the greedy.
Instead of adding some passionate screed agreeing with the many who point out the evils of the treatment of women and other problems with every kind of extremism, I will point to the thoughtful variety in the NYT Picks and beg people not to feed the fires of hatred for any reason. The only person I can change is myself.
Very few people are capable of not adding fuel to the fires of division, but that's the ideal.
I'm reminded of the fable about the frogs who wanted a king.
https://aesopsfables.wordpress.com/the-frogs-who-desired-a-king/
Thoughtful people have wondered what will happen when this aging monarch died, and now we will find out. We despair of a world ruled by common sense and compassion, while we watch it become ever more fragmented and hostile and prone to the depredations of the greedy.
Instead of adding some passionate screed agreeing with the many who point out the evils of the treatment of women and other problems with every kind of extremism, I will point to the thoughtful variety in the NYT Picks and beg people not to feed the fires of hatred for any reason. The only person I can change is myself.
Very few people are capable of not adding fuel to the fires of division, but that's the ideal.
2
For all those who want to vilify Abdullah I'd think about how many years it's been since blacks had to ride in the back of the bus and couldn't drink from the same water fountains as whites? How many years since women were given the right to vote? Or since we gave up torture? The laws on gay's right to marry is with the Supreme Court yet we are already holding the rest of the world to our new standard. I neither canonize Abdullah nor condemn him. But when viewed in the context of a part of the world I don't begin to suggest I understand, it's too bad there aren't many more like him in all of the other countries that are in flames right now.
We supported the regime change in Libya and what is the outcome? What about Iraq? We talked about an orderly transition from Assad in Syria as being in our interests and I ask where would that lead?
I wouldn't want to live in Saudi Arabia but I'd rather live there than nearly any other middle eastern country. We need to stop dictating our human rights beliefs to other nations who wish to be friendly with us. We need to seek our areas of common ground and build on them, quietly.
Rest in peace Abdullah. And best wishes to the Saudis for stability as they watch what's going on around them.
We supported the regime change in Libya and what is the outcome? What about Iraq? We talked about an orderly transition from Assad in Syria as being in our interests and I ask where would that lead?
I wouldn't want to live in Saudi Arabia but I'd rather live there than nearly any other middle eastern country. We need to stop dictating our human rights beliefs to other nations who wish to be friendly with us. We need to seek our areas of common ground and build on them, quietly.
Rest in peace Abdullah. And best wishes to the Saudis for stability as they watch what's going on around them.
11
it's also valuable remember that the west has been moving towards democratic and liberal values for centuries, whereas countries like saudi arabia were essentially yanked out of the middle ages by world war 1. imagine what our society would be like if only a few decades ago we had been living in 14th century europe - religious tolerence, free speech and full rights for women would seem very strange.
1
Right, we did (and do) some bad things in the area of civil rights too, so we can't criticize anyone else. That concept will certainly lead to the end of any civil rights movements.
And who exactly is "dictating our human rights beliefs" to anyone? There are good people - in America and elsewhere - who stand up for human rights everywhere (including in America) - but they are hardly dictating as they aren't the people in power, those people are feeding the horrible regimes.
I'll let you get your head back in the sand now, must be pleasant there.
And who exactly is "dictating our human rights beliefs" to anyone? There are good people - in America and elsewhere - who stand up for human rights everywhere (including in America) - but they are hardly dictating as they aren't the people in power, those people are feeding the horrible regimes.
I'll let you get your head back in the sand now, must be pleasant there.
1
Without idolizing Saudi Arabia, we have to remember things could be worse, and that maintaining the status quo may be the best we can hope for short term. We have trouble accepting the fact that even "absolute" monarchs have many political and cultural constraints on their power. Let's not rush to push Saudi Arabia off the cliff into endless sectarian violence prevalent in the region! It will not improve human rights nor lessen the export of terrorism. SA was only recently united, perhaps THE major step forward to a modern society.
5
What a pathetic throwback. He and his religious lackeys have likely been responsible for a lot of the terrorism that afflicts us.
I can't believe you thought his death was worth more than a passing mention. Ugh.
I can't believe you thought his death was worth more than a passing mention. Ugh.
15
For me, this sums up the generally corrupt state of wold affairs:
"Perhaps Abdullah’s most daunting challenge arrived in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, with the revelation that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis."
http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/01/23/world/JP-23ABDULLAH-1-obit/JP-...
"Perhaps Abdullah’s most daunting challenge arrived in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, with the revelation that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis."
http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/01/23/world/JP-23ABDULLAH-1-obit/JP-...
4
'He was a cautious reformer among great change." Yes I would imagine that women, and the Shia underclass, who had the misfortune to believe that The Arab Spring was for them, recognized too late that he was not just a cautious reformer, but a glacial reformer.
I can remember when President Bush came under fire for our Trotskyite propensity to spread Democracy out of the barrel of a gun, while we continued to ignore the Saudi Elephant in the room, and those propaganda films of Saudi men running in and out of voting tents in order to vote for nobody were hilarious, although not intended to be.
The checkbook diplomacy which this article implies had been the Saudi choice as the means to project power was altered by him to become more muscular against, Secular Shia Assad. What this article fails to mention is that Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi fanatics were the source of Abdullah's muscular response to threats to the Kingdom, and there can be no doubt that this is true when we observe the vicious act of coercion and murder perpetrated by his ISIS Legions in the heart of the Shia Crescent.
Of course the US is disconsolate at the demise of an ally, but then I can remember clearly when Saddam Hussein fought a proxy war for five years against Iran, but then he was an incautious reformer.
Nevertheless, the oil independents were the Kings true source of power in America. No doubt they are honestly chagrined. The last thing that they want is for peace to break out. Glacial reform is good.
I can remember when President Bush came under fire for our Trotskyite propensity to spread Democracy out of the barrel of a gun, while we continued to ignore the Saudi Elephant in the room, and those propaganda films of Saudi men running in and out of voting tents in order to vote for nobody were hilarious, although not intended to be.
The checkbook diplomacy which this article implies had been the Saudi choice as the means to project power was altered by him to become more muscular against, Secular Shia Assad. What this article fails to mention is that Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi fanatics were the source of Abdullah's muscular response to threats to the Kingdom, and there can be no doubt that this is true when we observe the vicious act of coercion and murder perpetrated by his ISIS Legions in the heart of the Shia Crescent.
Of course the US is disconsolate at the demise of an ally, but then I can remember clearly when Saddam Hussein fought a proxy war for five years against Iran, but then he was an incautious reformer.
Nevertheless, the oil independents were the Kings true source of power in America. No doubt they are honestly chagrined. The last thing that they want is for peace to break out. Glacial reform is good.
5
I have a theory. The Saudis attacked the USA on 9/11 in revenge for the GWH Bushes' invasions of Iraq (which nearly freed the Shiite majority). When GW Bush invaded Iraq and did free that majority the Saudis increased funding for radical attacks in the West. Recent history has been all about a power struggle between Sunnis and Iranian Shiites. Any takers?
2
Well I stopped at the headline, doubled over in laughter.
A cautious reformer?
Women can't drive, or go out in public alone they publically flogged a guy for blogging last week, and beheading is a sport.
What a progressive place, well done King!
Too bad I won't be around when they run out of oil, it's gonna be fun watching that transition.
A cautious reformer?
Women can't drive, or go out in public alone they publically flogged a guy for blogging last week, and beheading is a sport.
What a progressive place, well done King!
Too bad I won't be around when they run out of oil, it's gonna be fun watching that transition.
17
I don't understand the objections. Isn't this country controlled by privileged old men who oppose racial equality, women's rights, and more equitable distribution of wealth and income? Aren't many women here the most vociferous opponents of improving the status of women?
13
King Abdullah sounds like a very enigmatic leader. He was clearly not particularly interested in what the United States thought about his leadership.
I hope his replacement will lean I little more in a liberal direction to the benefit of his people. The restrictions placed on women are sad but perhaps they can be moderated.
Good leadership tainted by and perhaps leaning toward a moderate stance would be welcomed.
If the country is on stable footing, it should be left there. We don't need more battle fronts.
I hope his replacement will lean I little more in a liberal direction to the benefit of his people. The restrictions placed on women are sad but perhaps they can be moderated.
Good leadership tainted by and perhaps leaning toward a moderate stance would be welcomed.
If the country is on stable footing, it should be left there. We don't need more battle fronts.
2
We should denounce this evil country and it's cruel government. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
17
All eyes are now set on King Abdullah's successor, Salman, who is truly the last of the Sudairi Seven. It's an influential faction within the royal family formed of sons and grandsons of the late King Abdulaziz by a favourite wife, Princess Hassa al-Sudairi. She was very dominant and insisted that all of her high-profile sons dine with her once a week at home, where they compared notes, jockeyed for position and arranged to divide the spoils.
Abdullah was not part of this faction and his succession in 2005 posed a direct challenge to the Sudeiri brothers’ authority. Indeed, following the death of Fahd in 2005, who was one of the Sudeiri Seven, the clan's power was reduced significantly, with only Crown Princes Sultan and Naif holding key roles. The two died in 2011 and 2012 respectively. Salman will be 80 in December. As the kingdom is ruled by gerontocracy, whose members ascend throne only to stay in power for a decade or two, it will see no or only little reforms.
Abdullah was not part of this faction and his succession in 2005 posed a direct challenge to the Sudeiri brothers’ authority. Indeed, following the death of Fahd in 2005, who was one of the Sudeiri Seven, the clan's power was reduced significantly, with only Crown Princes Sultan and Naif holding key roles. The two died in 2011 and 2012 respectively. Salman will be 80 in December. As the kingdom is ruled by gerontocracy, whose members ascend throne only to stay in power for a decade or two, it will see no or only little reforms.
3
Yeah, under his watch terrorism increased and ISIS was formed; all in the name of wiping out anyone who stood in the way of making Sunnism, and Wahabism the only acceptable form of Islam. Peaceful Muslims need not apply. One has to wonder what the mullahs, who control Saudi Arabia, will have appointed as its next king.
An interesting article, in yesterday's Melbourne Age about one reporters view of Saudi Arabian justice. 15 beheadings since the beginning of the year. On Fridays, beheadings, limbs cut off, floggings and adulterers stoned after Friday prayers. Done in towns big and small across the country. Yes, this is the ally of the west, we are fighting ISIS, for the same reasons what Saudi Arabia does in the open. The difference, ISIS doesn't have oil yet; Saudi Arabia does.
As for the former king; he will be mourned among his people; or suffer the penalty of a flogging or worse.
"For those who reject their Lord is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (this) destination. When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath even as it blazes forth, almost bursting with fury. Whenever a group is cast into it, its keeper shall ask them: Did there not come to you a warner?" (Qur'an 67:6-8).
An interesting article, in yesterday's Melbourne Age about one reporters view of Saudi Arabian justice. 15 beheadings since the beginning of the year. On Fridays, beheadings, limbs cut off, floggings and adulterers stoned after Friday prayers. Done in towns big and small across the country. Yes, this is the ally of the west, we are fighting ISIS, for the same reasons what Saudi Arabia does in the open. The difference, ISIS doesn't have oil yet; Saudi Arabia does.
As for the former king; he will be mourned among his people; or suffer the penalty of a flogging or worse.
"For those who reject their Lord is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (this) destination. When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath even as it blazes forth, almost bursting with fury. Whenever a group is cast into it, its keeper shall ask them: Did there not come to you a warner?" (Qur'an 67:6-8).
10
Martin and Hubbard provide a concise bio of Abdullah and analysis of his and Saudi Arabia's complex policies and internal trends. Thanks. I learned much from the account. On balance, my concerns deepen. 1,000 lashes to a dissenter; military integration with the US to all intents and purposes; anti-Assad, anti-Iran position of the Kingdom, with complete US backing is a recipe for continued war and attempt to continue US global hegemony. In short, despite moving his nation from a tribal society to advanced capitalism, and the start at more long-term reforms, Abdullah's legacy, independence notwithstanding, had been too closely associated with American military conduct and aspirations.
World power politics, esp. the politics of oil, may not be the same with his passing. His general posture of opposition to the Arab Spring is not a good sign for the future, nor his rejection in practice of the liberalization of the faith as applied to treatment of women and penalization of dissent. The formula of advanced capitalism combined with domestic repression fits the bill of a meaningful definition of fascism. That the US applauds the combination speaks volumes about ourselves. I should like to see the kingdom disengage from executing US policy in the region and from interfering into Syrian and Iranian affairs, said interference in partnership with the US.
Change for the better? I'm not holding my breath. Neither internal democratization nor external neutrality is likely.
World power politics, esp. the politics of oil, may not be the same with his passing. His general posture of opposition to the Arab Spring is not a good sign for the future, nor his rejection in practice of the liberalization of the faith as applied to treatment of women and penalization of dissent. The formula of advanced capitalism combined with domestic repression fits the bill of a meaningful definition of fascism. That the US applauds the combination speaks volumes about ourselves. I should like to see the kingdom disengage from executing US policy in the region and from interfering into Syrian and Iranian affairs, said interference in partnership with the US.
Change for the better? I'm not holding my breath. Neither internal democratization nor external neutrality is likely.
9
The old say goes: The king is dead. Long life to the king!
I hope anyway that now the following Saudi Arabia will become a Democratic country.
That would be the condition that USA should pose to Saudi Arabia to remain an ally.
It makes no sense that the top democracy in the world has an ally which stays in the Middle Age.
I hope anyway that now the following Saudi Arabia will become a Democratic country.
That would be the condition that USA should pose to Saudi Arabia to remain an ally.
It makes no sense that the top democracy in the world has an ally which stays in the Middle Age.
8
*What* makes sense in the middle east?
4
I have read some of these comments and they are disgraceful and hew to american exceptionalism. He was a King in the days of Kings and even america came from Kings - and had slaves. But that's okay, right? Remember: those who don't know anything about history are doomed to repeat it. RIP.
10
He was a friend to America. Not as progressive towards women as I'd have liked for him to be, but he was smart and savvy and knew that the militant religious fanatics could destroy the Arab states.
5
Outstanding article. Many thanks for sharing the information.
5
We Doomers were wrong. Salman's quick ascension to the throne saves us from the nightmare scenario of Robert Baer's book Sleeping With the Devil: An open power struggle and the fall of The House of Saud. I'll admit that many of us actually hoped for this outcome. Saudi Arabia is no true friend of the US. It's a theocracy that funds terrorists.
It remains to be seen if King Salman can continue the policy of low oil prices while continuing the payola to Islamists who spread the Wahabist creed abroad while ignoring The Kingdom.
Given the young population and (until 1979) more modern society of Iran, I wish the US would do in Tehran what it has just done in Havana. Maybe if the Saudis keep trying to kill our shale industry, we should do just that.
It remains to be seen if King Salman can continue the policy of low oil prices while continuing the payola to Islamists who spread the Wahabist creed abroad while ignoring The Kingdom.
Given the young population and (until 1979) more modern society of Iran, I wish the US would do in Tehran what it has just done in Havana. Maybe if the Saudis keep trying to kill our shale industry, we should do just that.
10
Alas, King Bibi is to arrive next month, in the midst of AIPAC fundraising {they still don't have to register as an agent of a foreign state in accordance with US law, huh?} to remind our Congress Critters just who exactly they work for.
The Lobby.
That means every time peace is in danger of breaking out, moving the goalposts, and imposing more sanctions. But if you just repeat "nuclear program" long enough - it gains the status of truth.
Mr. Netanyahu has been shrieking about Iranian nukes for 20 years all while building more of his homes [and settlements, while bulldozing the homes of the indigenous untermenchen]
http://www.juancole.com/2012/09/netanyahu-in-1992-iran-close-to-having-n...
He also, lest we forget, testified before Congress that there was absolutely, positively no doubt that Iraq was working on nuclear weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpQdg4D78Jc
Had any other world leader such a track record of lies and war crimes, they would be roundly condemned. But he is the leader of Israel - so it is not a lie when he tells it.
The Lobby.
That means every time peace is in danger of breaking out, moving the goalposts, and imposing more sanctions. But if you just repeat "nuclear program" long enough - it gains the status of truth.
Mr. Netanyahu has been shrieking about Iranian nukes for 20 years all while building more of his homes [and settlements, while bulldozing the homes of the indigenous untermenchen]
http://www.juancole.com/2012/09/netanyahu-in-1992-iran-close-to-having-n...
He also, lest we forget, testified before Congress that there was absolutely, positively no doubt that Iraq was working on nuclear weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpQdg4D78Jc
Had any other world leader such a track record of lies and war crimes, they would be roundly condemned. But he is the leader of Israel - so it is not a lie when he tells it.
12
The enemy of our enemy is not our friend.
5
Neither this man, nor his atavistic clan, could have ruled for as long as they have without the massive support of the United States military and intelligence services. The misbegotten alliance between an allegedly democratic nation, the US, and a cruelly medieval monarchy, Saudi Arabia, is one of the Faustian bargains -- or deals with the devil -- that are transforming the US into the Evil Empire, hated around the world. Don't weep for King Abdullah, weep for America's trashed ideals...
28
Its a good thing that you clarified Faustian Bargain by defining it. An awful lot of Americans who tweet, but don't book, might otherwise have no idea what you are talking about.
Yes, it is a Faustian Bargain in the Sisyphean quest for Republican Democracy to remain true to itself.
Saudi Arabia is the source of all Islamic Radicalism, but they are farcically our ally, and the demise of King Abdullah is supposed to be a minor tragedy for America. The narrative is absurd, but as long as we keep tweeting and not booking, it is bound to get sillier.
Yes, it is a Faustian Bargain in the Sisyphean quest for Republican Democracy to remain true to itself.
Saudi Arabia is the source of all Islamic Radicalism, but they are farcically our ally, and the demise of King Abdullah is supposed to be a minor tragedy for America. The narrative is absurd, but as long as we keep tweeting and not booking, it is bound to get sillier.
10
A nightmarish country where women cannot drive, cannot own property and are stoned to death in public for adultery.
Why is this country our ally? We should be appalled.
Why is this country our ally? We should be appalled.
31
Jews can not marry Christians in Israel, and Palestinians born there can not return to the villages of their birth, while someone whose ancestors resided in Poland for 1,000 years can move to the Occupied Territories in a nice new home ultimately subsidized by the US taxpayer, in contravention of international law... but that's okay.
Foreign relations has nothing to do with either morality or consistency.
Foreign relations has nothing to do with either morality or consistency.
13
Because they have oil, which we need (addicted to) for our SUVs, and mores strongly influenced by religion. The U.S. aspires to the latter. We are still fighting for equal pay, many of us are looking through the glass ceiling, and some of our citizens refuse to accept that abortion is legal.
3
The US's main oil partners are Canada and Mexico, followed by Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, but we are now (again) a producer and exporter of oil, and have not been dependent foreign oil for some time now. The only real issue is that SA can sustain lower prices longer than the USA can
One Saudi King down to be replaced by another. Will the replacement stop the 1000 lashes and 10 year prison sentence of the blogger? When will women be given be allowed more freedom in this Stone Age, not forgetting the barbaric punishments meted out to dissedents?
Another friend of the West in the name of oil.
Another friend of the West in the name of oil.
15
To all those supporters of the Saudi system - it is Saudi money that built maderassas around the world to teach their ultra conservative Wahabi teachings, that produced students, who are willing foot soldiers for terrorism around the globe.
If the Saudi monarch was so generous and moderate minded he ought to have paid to open universities and schools to teach modern subjects, like he did in Saudi Arabia. He should have allowed women equal participation in society and he should have dis-allowed barbaric punishments like beheading and flogging criminals.
Let's face it. For the US and Saudi it is a marriage of convenience. It is time for the US to stop molly coddling the Saudis for all the harm they have contributed to in the world.
If the Saudi monarch was so generous and moderate minded he ought to have paid to open universities and schools to teach modern subjects, like he did in Saudi Arabia. He should have allowed women equal participation in society and he should have dis-allowed barbaric punishments like beheading and flogging criminals.
Let's face it. For the US and Saudi it is a marriage of convenience. It is time for the US to stop molly coddling the Saudis for all the harm they have contributed to in the world.
26
This piece speaks of the king's firm response to the Arab Spring as if it were intolerant only of fundamentalist radicals. It was secular-minded Tunisians who led the movement. Islamists slipped in when there was instability. I have a close friend from Tunisia--a secularist--who tells me secular-minded Tunisians feel it is Saudi Arabia's iron fist that is responsible for the rise in Islamic fundamentalists across the region. So it's inaccurate to suggest that Saudi Arabia's hard line on protest in the region has quashed fundamentalists. Many people believe it's the hard-line stance that has created fundamentalists. And in any event, because all that is of course hard to prove, secularists have certainly been hurt by the oppressive laws and practices. That's why it's called an iron fist.
I knew two visiting Saudi women students in grad school. Both framed human rights only in terms of the right to work on equal terms with men, certainly a right worth fighting for. Yet they bristled at any suggestion that the Saudi regime committed grave human rights abuses in areas of freedom of expression, arbitrary detention, torture, execution. My Tunisian friend, by contrast, has positions on civil rights similar to any civil libertarian from the US or Europe.
Perhaps the para. in this obit that best shows its absurdity is the one that begins and ends like this: "Still, Abdullah became, in some ways, a force of moderation.... He had hundreds of militants arrested and some beheaded."
I knew two visiting Saudi women students in grad school. Both framed human rights only in terms of the right to work on equal terms with men, certainly a right worth fighting for. Yet they bristled at any suggestion that the Saudi regime committed grave human rights abuses in areas of freedom of expression, arbitrary detention, torture, execution. My Tunisian friend, by contrast, has positions on civil rights similar to any civil libertarian from the US or Europe.
Perhaps the para. in this obit that best shows its absurdity is the one that begins and ends like this: "Still, Abdullah became, in some ways, a force of moderation.... He had hundreds of militants arrested and some beheaded."
13
Can it get even more sycophantic than that article?
A medieval, atavistic tyrant ruling with the help of clerics who put the inquisition to shame. He was heading one of the worst regimes in the world. No chance of a Saudi spring even now, the big brother will never allow this. A quiet transition is the order of the day.
A medieval, atavistic tyrant ruling with the help of clerics who put the inquisition to shame. He was heading one of the worst regimes in the world. No chance of a Saudi spring even now, the big brother will never allow this. A quiet transition is the order of the day.
21
To each his or her own. We cannot expect every nation on the planet to embrace entirely our values, lifestyle, governing system, system of justice and therefore accept and tolerate other diverse societies that will coexist with us. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia balanced multiple competing interests quite efficiently and was an efficient custodian of the holy sites of Islam. Since assuming the throne in 2005, he was someone the West could work with and manage the disagreements. Towards his end the oil prices have been low and he deserves some credit for it. He lived the longest of the Kings of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and overall he will remain a reasonable historic figure with no residual negativity. Assalam Alaikum to the people of Saudi Arabia and to the departed King Abdullah.
21
Nonsense, pure and simple. How can you defend any country that imprisons someone for blogging, then, ices that cake with 1000 lashes? I could go on for days.
Shame on you, and bigger shame on the NYT for giving your comment a gold star.
Shame on you, and bigger shame on the NYT for giving your comment a gold star.
8
To each his own? To judge Saudi Arabia harshly & find the ruling house of Saud wanting is not just about an expectation of agreement over societal norms. During King Abdullah' reign there has been an active movement to spread the extremist version of Islam bolstered by their custodianship of Islam's holy sites & oil wealth throughout the world. He is someone the west can work with because oil wealth lubricates that relationship, otherwise we wouldn't work with them at all. One note on the other response to your pr piece, NT picks are not an endorsement of viewpoint & only highlight a piece worthy of attention.
1
Girish, very well stated. Us Americans can be very ethnocentric forgetting that other countries have cultures which from ours. The US didn't establishcivil rights overnight, and are still dealing with several civil rights issues 150 some-odd years after the fight started. Our history has very similar, if not parallel, stories of punishment for being different. Patience.
2
After reading about Junipero Serra and his destruction of the Native Californian culture, I'm re-thinking my position on trying to change any culture. Once I hear that they cut off hands for larceny and do strange things to women, I usually will get behind their annihilation. Also, this king had the power to cause us huge problems in the 70s and somehow (We sold them a few fighter jets at first, unheard of before then) he helped hold it all together rather than occupy the complete Middle East (he had the money and the power and a few more jets than a few) and he let us stage Desert Shield (pre-invasion Desert Storm) in his country. RIP, sire. When they read your will, I hope it stipulates a woman driver for the new king.
3
You have just proposed the annihilation of Saudi Arabia because you do not like their culture.
3
A shrewd king he was.
Western ideals of liberal democracy and individual freedom pose a threat to Saudi Kingdom, but the Saudis cannot dominate the West through conventional weapons - economic or military. It found a way to counter the expansion of western ideals by exporting an ideology and financing schools where young children are taught the Saudi version of religion. His 'western friends' paid for this schools through their 'addiction of oil'. You are witnessing the toll on West - Military and economic impact as well as sacrifice of individual freedom. This is a war fought by two sides with different weapons, destroying less lives than conventional wars but destroying wealth and imposing a 'rule of fear'.
Western ideals of liberal democracy and individual freedom pose a threat to Saudi Kingdom, but the Saudis cannot dominate the West through conventional weapons - economic or military. It found a way to counter the expansion of western ideals by exporting an ideology and financing schools where young children are taught the Saudi version of religion. His 'western friends' paid for this schools through their 'addiction of oil'. You are witnessing the toll on West - Military and economic impact as well as sacrifice of individual freedom. This is a war fought by two sides with different weapons, destroying less lives than conventional wars but destroying wealth and imposing a 'rule of fear'.
6
King Abdullah’s death has put Saudi Arabia in a difficult situation. The country is beset by internal problems and the threat of Al Qaeda from South and ISIS from North. He is succeeded by his 79-year old half-brother Salman who is in poor health and allegedly suffers from dementia. Therefore, before his death King Abdullah appointed a second crown prince, Muqrin bin Abdulaziz who is 70.
Saudi Arabia whose main significance rests on the fact that it houses Islam’s two holiest places, Mecca and Medina, and has a great deal of oil is run as a family business by the descendants of Al Saud, who gave his name to the country. The kingdom has upward of 7,000 princes and princesses who receive lucrative allowances from the government.
The kingdom, based on the extreme Wahhabi sect of Islam, provides the harshest interpretation of Islam and has given rise to the likes of Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and lately ISIS. These fanatical groups bred on strict Wahhabi version of Islam have created mayhem in the region and ultimately turned against their benefactors.
It is time for Arabia to initiate meaningful change by abolishing the family dictatorship and allowing some democracy and human rights to be introduced to a country of some 30 million people, many of whom have received Western education. If Saud family is to survive it should act as constitutional monarchs allowing elected officials to run the country. Above all, they should reform their strict version of Islam.
Saudi Arabia whose main significance rests on the fact that it houses Islam’s two holiest places, Mecca and Medina, and has a great deal of oil is run as a family business by the descendants of Al Saud, who gave his name to the country. The kingdom has upward of 7,000 princes and princesses who receive lucrative allowances from the government.
The kingdom, based on the extreme Wahhabi sect of Islam, provides the harshest interpretation of Islam and has given rise to the likes of Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and lately ISIS. These fanatical groups bred on strict Wahhabi version of Islam have created mayhem in the region and ultimately turned against their benefactors.
It is time for Arabia to initiate meaningful change by abolishing the family dictatorship and allowing some democracy and human rights to be introduced to a country of some 30 million people, many of whom have received Western education. If Saud family is to survive it should act as constitutional monarchs allowing elected officials to run the country. Above all, they should reform their strict version of Islam.
30
Democracy for Saudi Arabia? Not a great idea, not to mention women are still unfranchised. Major risk of turning into a feudal state with 7,000 princes vying for power, or worse, fracturing into warlord states or chronic civil war. The best for us is stability,something we do not appreciate enough here.
4
I don't see that the Saud family giving up anything as long as they're pushers for the world's addiction to oil, which fattens their coffers. What they should do and what they will do are two different things. Money even trumps Islam to them.
1
With the glacial pace of reform begun by Abdullah, we in the West can hope that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will join the 21st Century by the end of the Millenium.
6
World wants to see King Salman as Gorbachev of Saudi Arabia which in turn may halves the terrorism related violences in the entire world.
1
So what? Nothing is going to change in Saudi Arabia. Meet the new king. Same as the old king.
11
It’s interesting that our government will immediately announce and send a delegation to Saudi now, but had no representation in France for the unity march following the Charlie Hebdo attacks..
12
After 15 young schoolgirls died after being prevented from leaving their burning school by the omnipresent religious police King Abdullah was "furious and dismissed the Minister of Women's Education." And please tell us what punishment was meted out to the men who pushed these girls back into the flames? ISIS could do no better.
19
He was a fundamentalist who funded terrorists and created ISIL. We should have overthrown him and supported a military regime.
3
"We should have overthrown him and supported a military regime."
And you probably wonder why people around the world are not fond of us and see us as, at best, the school yard bully. Besides, we've done that before -- and the results have never been very good. Just look back as Iran in 1953. Much of the reason we have the Islamic Republic today, arising from overthrow of the shah (our boy) in 1979, goes straight back to the US back, CIA instituted coup of 1953...
And you probably wonder why people around the world are not fond of us and see us as, at best, the school yard bully. Besides, we've done that before -- and the results have never been very good. Just look back as Iran in 1953. Much of the reason we have the Islamic Republic today, arising from overthrow of the shah (our boy) in 1979, goes straight back to the US back, CIA instituted coup of 1953...
6
King Abdullah was not a terrible ruler, and he was lucky to reach 90, few people do. But he wasn't a great ruler either, as a lot of the commentary here can attest to, and the real tragedy of his rule was what he did not do.
With the most profitable oil fields in the world, he could have moved considerably faster in modernizing society, simply by spreading the wealth. Content, rich citizenry are a lot more amenable to drastic societal change, as we've demonstrated in the U.S.. He could have attracted the best professors to teach the best equipped universities and become a second Baghdad, which used to be the worldwide center of science, literature, and accumulated knowledge.
Instead he primarily enriched his huge family and all their friends, and turned a blind eye to untold riches funneled to fund terrorism and war.
So I come here not to praise King Abdullah, nor really to bury him. I'm just griping in hopes that the next King gets the message somehow, and rules with better priorities.
With the most profitable oil fields in the world, he could have moved considerably faster in modernizing society, simply by spreading the wealth. Content, rich citizenry are a lot more amenable to drastic societal change, as we've demonstrated in the U.S.. He could have attracted the best professors to teach the best equipped universities and become a second Baghdad, which used to be the worldwide center of science, literature, and accumulated knowledge.
Instead he primarily enriched his huge family and all their friends, and turned a blind eye to untold riches funneled to fund terrorism and war.
So I come here not to praise King Abdullah, nor really to bury him. I'm just griping in hopes that the next King gets the message somehow, and rules with better priorities.
29
As a liberal democracy, we hold certain truths—and "unalienable rights"—to be "self-evident," and these are incompatible with both absolute monarchy and theocracy. Our duty as human beings is to work patiently for the demise of both of those odious institutions. Benevolent despotism is still despotism, and there is nothing in it to celebrate.
42
I disagree that a benevolent despotism is "nothing to celebrate". Such a system is infinitely preferable to the "fake" democracies favored by the the US.
Nations, like children, need the strong hand of a parent as they grow from infancy to adulthood. Giving children the privileges of adulthood before they are ready for it is a disservice to everyone. (Unfortunately for every Kemal Attaturk there seems to be an Idi Amin.) However, . .. .
Governing a nation of bedouin tribes under the thrall of a "one-true" religion cannot be easy. I say, "God bless the Saudi family" and I pray they continue to parent their infant nation however slowly step by step until full maturity is reached.
I also disagree with the term "liberal democracy" when applied to the US. Both recent and current events in Washington suggest to me that America's liberal democracy is turning into just another banana republic governed by an oligarchy of rich white men and encouraged by certain religious authorities who are trying to replace the US Consitution witih their interpretation of the Bible.
Nations, like children, need the strong hand of a parent as they grow from infancy to adulthood. Giving children the privileges of adulthood before they are ready for it is a disservice to everyone. (Unfortunately for every Kemal Attaturk there seems to be an Idi Amin.) However, . .. .
Governing a nation of bedouin tribes under the thrall of a "one-true" religion cannot be easy. I say, "God bless the Saudi family" and I pray they continue to parent their infant nation however slowly step by step until full maturity is reached.
I also disagree with the term "liberal democracy" when applied to the US. Both recent and current events in Washington suggest to me that America's liberal democracy is turning into just another banana republic governed by an oligarchy of rich white men and encouraged by certain religious authorities who are trying to replace the US Consitution witih their interpretation of the Bible.
10
It will truly be history the one who will judge, but few leaders ever had their country, poor at first, turn into a nation with the wealth that oil has bestowed to Saudi Arabia.
Yet, the kingdom today is a country without native industry, with exactly a single export (oil) extracted under the aegis of foreign corporations, with no native scientists or engineers, architects, artists, or entrepreneurs --it is a country where laborers are all foreigner second class citizens, and where the population that obtained an education almost exclusively focused on religious studies.
At the same time, half the population (women) have been left repressed --a resource of creativity and labor left untapped, and the average Saudi has been left uneducated, poor, and without a future.
With all that wealth, perhaps Saudi Arabia could have risen as a center of knowledge, innovation, and industry --a successful amalgam of Islamic tradition and a nation looking forward (as, for example, the Caliphs of Baghdad achieved while the Middle Ages smothered Europe).
Frankly, it all looks like the king's years have been, in the final analysis, far from successful.
Yet, the kingdom today is a country without native industry, with exactly a single export (oil) extracted under the aegis of foreign corporations, with no native scientists or engineers, architects, artists, or entrepreneurs --it is a country where laborers are all foreigner second class citizens, and where the population that obtained an education almost exclusively focused on religious studies.
At the same time, half the population (women) have been left repressed --a resource of creativity and labor left untapped, and the average Saudi has been left uneducated, poor, and without a future.
With all that wealth, perhaps Saudi Arabia could have risen as a center of knowledge, innovation, and industry --a successful amalgam of Islamic tradition and a nation looking forward (as, for example, the Caliphs of Baghdad achieved while the Middle Ages smothered Europe).
Frankly, it all looks like the king's years have been, in the final analysis, far from successful.
62
I'm an American woman. King Abdullah and his predecessors were very aware that the people needed to be open to the rest of the world. Abdullah established over 20 universities, and gave full scholarships to 100,000 students to go abroad to study. Those students are serious -- they learn and go home, to build their society and more fully integrate it into the 21st century.
Please take time to LEARN about this fascinating, complex society!
Please take time to LEARN about this fascinating, complex society!
7
I live in Saudi Arabia and in spite of it's universities, women are still segregated and taught only by women; men are not allowed on the campus and this includes plumbers and electricians while the girls are present. It is illegal for a woman to ride a bike. Women may study law but they cannot act as a lawyer in a court of law. Women are still veiled and wear an abaya in public. They are not allowed to see a doctor (and this includes dermatologists and nutritionists) without a male relative present. It is illegal for them to rent an apartment. They cannot travel or get a job without their father's or husband's consent. They cannot open a bank account. It is illegal to practice any religion except the strict Wahabi form of Islam and the penalty for denouncing Islam is death. I have taught Saudi students in the US and in spite of their openness at being in the West, they go back to KSA and adhere to all the rules and restrictions that Islam dictates so you're rather naive in thinking Saudi students educated in the West will return and modernise their country. They don't. They either move abroad permanently or go back and submit to all the restrictions Saudi law dictates. YOU might want to learn a little more about this "fascinating, complex society" which has NOT modernised in spite of sending students abroad.
98
I'm a Saudi girl studying in the US. I have to apologize in advance for my English, but I felt the need to address a few things I don't find true in your comment. First, women can be lawyers. Bayan Al Zahran is the first lawyer and there are couple more now. Second, what you are saying about practicing any religion is a policy the country holds, but this policy is not enforced at all. I know in the Eastern provence there are many Shias and they are freely practicing their believe (this was not the case when King Fahd was ruling the country). Third, women can go to any doctors any times they want. I myself do this all the time. The country is not perfect. A lot more work needs to be done. King Abdullah could have worked a little bit faster in advancing the country, but we need to remember how chaotic the country was in King Fahd's period.
29
Many of the people who have been critical in these letters are not Muslim and are not Saudi. Who are you to say that King Abdullah was not moderate? For Saudi Arabia he was moderate. He opened a graduate university in the Kingdom where men and women of all nationalities (including Saudi) can study in classes together. Westerners and Arabs and Asians all live and work and study together there. It's not easy and it's not perfect, but it's a huge step in Saudi Arabia. If you are Saudi and are displeased with the King, you have the right to be. If you are not, you are simply judging him from your own biased perspective without considering the desires of Saudis. Many (though not all) Saudi women do NOT want to drive, do not want the freedoms they see Western women have, and do not want what Western women want. Others do, of course, and are often prohibited from access to education or freedoms. I am not justifying the culture or the extremist religious views, but I am arguing that unless you are Saudi you cannot really say that this King was not moderate.
21
Thanks Jennifer. I think you said the exact truth about Saudi Arabia that others don't know.
9
One does not have to be Indian and in India to criticise India. One does not have to read my religion's book to criticise my religion. Saudi Arabia is not a country that tolerates fair criticism. Only those who safely live outside can criticise here. How is that unfair?
22
One doesn't have to live in or belong to Saudi society to have valid opinions or perspective on that society. Yes it's possible that in relation to Saudi society in general King Abdullah was a "moderate" whatever that means. But you don't need to be Saudi to express displeasure with the kingdom & it's role in spreading extremist Islam wahbism throughout the world. It is the font from which so much evil flows. Almost all violent Islamic extremist groups adhere to some version of this teaching even if many don't find Saudi society conservative enough in practice. They are allies of necessity & have played the west well with their oil, slick public relations & alliances with powerful groups & families. Specifically the Bushes come to mind, or do you really believe the first gulf war was about Kuwait & not Saudi oil & security.
1
The house of Saud made a deal with the wajabi to conquer Saudi Arabia. They are the medieval ones with Sharia law and oppression of women. Then Roosevelt promised the US would protect Saudia Arabia in return for oil, which the Americans found when they were drilling for water. If the house of Saud falls because all the sons are gone then extremism will take over there. So as much as we hate their repressive government we are probably stuck helping them stay in power.
13
You have very little knowledge of the hunt for oil in the 1930s in the then brand-new country of Saudi Arabia. It is a fascinating true story that had enormous repercussions throughout the entire world.
We suggest you read 'Discovery!' by Wallace Stegner (selwapress.com). Standard Oil had a concession to hunt for OIL -- not water! Oil had been discovered in Bahrain -- and was controlled by the colonizing British.
We suggest you read 'Discovery!' by Wallace Stegner (selwapress.com). Standard Oil had a concession to hunt for OIL -- not water! Oil had been discovered in Bahrain -- and was controlled by the colonizing British.
1
who are "we", Little Cabbage?
10
The world would have been better off if oil was never discovered in the Persian gulf area. I recognize this mans achievements but can only wish the next leader use this massive wealth for the betterment of all humanity.
25
Salman may 'assume' the throne but the people around him will test him sorely. Salman may need to assert serious force to preserve the discipline that his father built. I would not anticipate any major reforms, quite the contrary, as the newbie, the (religious and conservative) forces around Salman will push very hard to deny and reverse even those small democratic changes his father made. Whether publicly or privately, there will be a struggle for power and influence that will play out over these next many months. Salman may rue the day he 'assumed' his fathers place.
6
Salman is his brother...just saying.
8
Saudi Arabia was united as a Kingdom (for the first time in the peninsula's thousands of years of history) in 1932 by Abdul Aziz ibn Saud.
All the kings following him have been his sons. It is a tribal society -- please take the time to LEARN about this ancient society which is so very different than the US.
All the kings following him have been his sons. It is a tribal society -- please take the time to LEARN about this ancient society which is so very different than the US.
4
It will go either two ways he will be conservative and appease the radicals in the court or he will be a radical who will look to impose his authority on the court. We will just have to wait and see.
1
The writer of this obituary thinks that this dead king was worthy of such an obsequious memorandum. Does anybody else among the readership really think so?
57
Yes, we do! The interior of Saudi Arabia became a united country for the first time in history in 1932 -- prior to that it was an isolated, 15th century relic.
It took Western Europeans HUNDREDS of years of barbaric religious wars to reach what we call 'democracy'. This is an entirely different culture, with a different history and beliefs. For one thing: it is the ONLY country in the 'Middle East' which was never conquered and colonized by a Western Power. No one wanted to go there! Then the Founder, King Abdul Aziz, invited Americans (Standard Oil) to explore for oil...and the entire world was transformed by cheap, plentiful petroleum that enabled our post-war civilization to expand so incredibly fast.
For the past 20 years, the US imports most of its oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, and domestic sources...go LEARN about Saudi Arabia -- start with 'Discovery!' by Wallace Stegner.
Read and learn before you comment!
It took Western Europeans HUNDREDS of years of barbaric religious wars to reach what we call 'democracy'. This is an entirely different culture, with a different history and beliefs. For one thing: it is the ONLY country in the 'Middle East' which was never conquered and colonized by a Western Power. No one wanted to go there! Then the Founder, King Abdul Aziz, invited Americans (Standard Oil) to explore for oil...and the entire world was transformed by cheap, plentiful petroleum that enabled our post-war civilization to expand so incredibly fast.
For the past 20 years, the US imports most of its oil from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, and domestic sources...go LEARN about Saudi Arabia -- start with 'Discovery!' by Wallace Stegner.
Read and learn before you comment!
9
No. Ask the Imprisoned Blogger receiving 1000 lashes at 50 per week.
1
May his soul rest in peace! Amen. Saudi Arabia has still a long way to go. While Iran under the very ideology of Islamic state prospers despite international sanctions, Saudi Arabia is yet to the threshold of reforms.
5
You are very misled about Iran, who population is far more moderate that Saudi Arabia and women rights are much more advance, they can drive!. Iran does allow other religions to function in the Christian churches and a large Jewish population. Iran doesn't share an ideology with IS, for one Iran is Shia, while IS is a Sunni organisation. An the only enemy Iran has is Israel. They only see US and Western country as enemies because we have chosen to be enemies to Iran.
7
David Knowles, you are mislead if you think Iran is not our enemy. Don't you recall "Death to the Great Satan!" They weren't referring to Israel. The US hostages weren't taken and held because of Israel. The fundamentalists hate us because we supported the Shah, who was trying to modernize and liberalize his country with Western values. The new King of Saudi Arabia risks the same backlash if he tries to move too fast. After all even in the US we have massive roadblocks to liberalization!
1
Though the apparent objective is to paint the late King Abdullah in a positive light, this article reads like an economic treatise, with every positive assertion countered by an example of the opposite behavior. I dare say one could dig through the record of P.W. Botha of South Africa and find some redeeming virtues of his in terms of generosity or human development. But, 25 years ago, most of the world decided that South Africa needed to be brought into line with strong sanctions, due to its open flouting of essential human rights.
Same thing today with Saudi Arabia. King Abdullah was in the position of power and decided to just swim with the current most of the time, though somewhat tempered, as compared to the more extreme elements in that country. But, he was no hero and Saudi Arabia stands out not just as a country that openly practices brutal suppression of its own citizens and guest workers but has also funded terrorism outside its borders, unlike South Africa. Whatever King Abdullah thought of these things, the reality is that he did not do all that was in his power to put an end to the flagrant abuses.
For once, the countries consuming oil have some clout and we should use it to effect change in Saudi Arabia by sanctions. Its time to strike while the iron is hot.
Same thing today with Saudi Arabia. King Abdullah was in the position of power and decided to just swim with the current most of the time, though somewhat tempered, as compared to the more extreme elements in that country. But, he was no hero and Saudi Arabia stands out not just as a country that openly practices brutal suppression of its own citizens and guest workers but has also funded terrorism outside its borders, unlike South Africa. Whatever King Abdullah thought of these things, the reality is that he did not do all that was in his power to put an end to the flagrant abuses.
For once, the countries consuming oil have some clout and we should use it to effect change in Saudi Arabia by sanctions. Its time to strike while the iron is hot.
21
I cannot help but note that the comparison to South Africa is without merit. Saudi Arabia is a country of the immensely wealthy through the good fortune of sitting on a sea of oil. Yet it oppresses terribly its supposedly fellow Arab Muslims from the Gaza, using them essentially as slaves that can be disposed of when no longer needed or able to work. South Africa's indigenous population lived in abject poverty under white rule, and that has not changed.
The statement "Saudi Arabia stands out . . .has also funded terrorism outside its borders, unlike South Africa" is nonsensical. South Africa has nothing to fund terrorism with, so we can't say anything about its motivation in not doing so.
Striking while the iron is hot? Again, nonsensical. With all the increasing oil production in the USA and Canada (which so many Times commenters criticisize as not being "environmentally friendly"), the Saudis still control the price of sweet crude in the open market. Some believe the reason they've lowered the price is to make producing oil from tar sands and fracking unprofitable and so slow our quest for independence from their good graces. Maybe so. But it has also put teeth into Obama's otherwise vacuous economic threats to Russia by reducing Russia's main source of foreign monies, exporting oil. Without that, Putin would still be slouched in his chair in contempt.
The statement "Saudi Arabia stands out . . .has also funded terrorism outside its borders, unlike South Africa" is nonsensical. South Africa has nothing to fund terrorism with, so we can't say anything about its motivation in not doing so.
Striking while the iron is hot? Again, nonsensical. With all the increasing oil production in the USA and Canada (which so many Times commenters criticisize as not being "environmentally friendly"), the Saudis still control the price of sweet crude in the open market. Some believe the reason they've lowered the price is to make producing oil from tar sands and fracking unprofitable and so slow our quest for independence from their good graces. Maybe so. But it has also put teeth into Obama's otherwise vacuous economic threats to Russia by reducing Russia's main source of foreign monies, exporting oil. Without that, Putin would still be slouched in his chair in contempt.
3
I am a Saudi guy who lives in Canada
will miss King Abdullah a lot. He built 7 big medical centers, 26 universities, one of the biggest economic cities in the world and sent about 200,000 students abroad including myself among other great things he did for us. Further more, we don't pay any taxes.
Actually, most of Saudis think he is the best king that they ever had.
Also, I want to till every one that full democracy is not perfect for Saudi Arabia. Do you know why? because it is a country full of different tribes and most of them won't accept any member of the other tribes to be their boss.
Regarding women and their rights in Saudi Arabia, this is our culture and I am telling you most of women in my country are happy by how much rights they have. You might be surprised but I think this the truth. Also, most of the people there think it is part of their culture. This is the problem of western people, they want every one to be just like them and I think this is impossible.
I think every one should know that what is right here is not always right in middle east because believe it or not, we are different.
will miss King Abdullah a lot. He built 7 big medical centers, 26 universities, one of the biggest economic cities in the world and sent about 200,000 students abroad including myself among other great things he did for us. Further more, we don't pay any taxes.
Actually, most of Saudis think he is the best king that they ever had.
Also, I want to till every one that full democracy is not perfect for Saudi Arabia. Do you know why? because it is a country full of different tribes and most of them won't accept any member of the other tribes to be their boss.
Regarding women and their rights in Saudi Arabia, this is our culture and I am telling you most of women in my country are happy by how much rights they have. You might be surprised but I think this the truth. Also, most of the people there think it is part of their culture. This is the problem of western people, they want every one to be just like them and I think this is impossible.
I think every one should know that what is right here is not always right in middle east because believe it or not, we are different.
36
Of course you say women are happy with their lot because you are a man. You can go any where you want with whom ever you wish and drive there too. No one wants to be controlled. Those women you speak of gave up, gave in, and accepted life as dictated to them by men.
15
What about the foreign women in Saudi Arabia? All those Indonesian, Pakistani, Filipino, and other Asian women who work as maids and so forth in Saudi Arabia. Are they as happy as you claim native Saudi women are? I really doubt that, from all the horror stories I've read about the awful abuses they suffer.
Issues like this one have zero connection to any notion of Westerners wishing to force Saudis to become just like them. There are now several non-Western countries (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc.) where local people are nothing at all like typical Westerners (just superficially so) but they have done away with what they themselves recognized as certain odious cultural practices that consigned women to the status of second-class citizens. It is no coincidence that countries like these rank higher than Saudi Arabia on the Human Development Index, a composite measure developed by a pair of non-Western economists (Amartya Sen and Mahbub-al-Haq).
Issues like this one have zero connection to any notion of Westerners wishing to force Saudis to become just like them. There are now several non-Western countries (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc.) where local people are nothing at all like typical Westerners (just superficially so) but they have done away with what they themselves recognized as certain odious cultural practices that consigned women to the status of second-class citizens. It is no coincidence that countries like these rank higher than Saudi Arabia on the Human Development Index, a composite measure developed by a pair of non-Western economists (Amartya Sen and Mahbub-al-Haq).
27
Most of women in your country are happy? They are not allowed to drive, and have to be grateful for not be persecuted after being raped. What do they teach at the king's universities to justify such treatment of women?
16
As I've said before, let the jousting begin -- because most certainly, members of the Royal Saud Family are now consolidating, or, changing their positions resulting from the appointment of a new heir apparent.
One thing is certain, as long as voices of dissent are at risk receiving of 1,000 lashes of the whip, and Women's Rights are obstructed, they are still firmly set in another century.
For all good that might have come about under the reign of King Abdullah, let it be respectfully noted -- there is still a long way to go in reforming the Kingdom's stance on basic human rights.
One thing is certain, as long as voices of dissent are at risk receiving of 1,000 lashes of the whip, and Women's Rights are obstructed, they are still firmly set in another century.
For all good that might have come about under the reign of King Abdullah, let it be respectfully noted -- there is still a long way to go in reforming the Kingdom's stance on basic human rights.
20
To all the anti-Obama conspiracy theorists who have had such a grand time over the last 7 years spreading idiotic and ridiculous information about the current US President: Take a good look at the photo accompanying this article of George W. Bush walking hand-in-hand with King Abdullah 10 years ago, as if on his first date with Laura.
That's your man, the older brother of the guy who wishes to bring about a second Bush Restoration in 2017.
That's your man, the older brother of the guy who wishes to bring about a second Bush Restoration in 2017.
76
My impression while I was there, when he returned from New York by way of Morocco, was that those who remember Kings Faisal and Fahd thought very highly of King Abdullah. The people I spoke with seemed to rue the day he would pass. After all, the next king might be like the previous ones. I am certain many genuine tears are being shed in Jeddah.
12
From this obituary: "The grand mufti, the kingdom’s highest religious official, proclaimed that Islam forbade street protests. "
The kingdom hires and fires all the preachers, forcing them to preach things like that.
Isn't it marvelous how elastic Islam is, in the hands of governments. They can say Islam forbids street protests, or that Islam demands jihad (in other lands.)
The kingdom hires and fires all the preachers, forcing them to preach things like that.
Isn't it marvelous how elastic Islam is, in the hands of governments. They can say Islam forbids street protests, or that Islam demands jihad (in other lands.)
22
An undoubtably wise man who understood the foolishness of our Iraq venture, but unfortunately couldn't overcome his religious hatred of Shiites. As a result, we have 200k+ Syrians dead and millions as refugees. I can't forgive his shortsightedness on this matter.
Unfortunately we have to cycle through a few more oldies before we see meaningful reform. Unless of course, part of the 30 Million Saudi population decide to join forces with ISIS and overthrow the kingdom.
Unfortunately we have to cycle through a few more oldies before we see meaningful reform. Unless of course, part of the 30 Million Saudi population decide to join forces with ISIS and overthrow the kingdom.
6
Seriously, he does not look 90.. Maybe 79 or 80 tops.
Kind of sorry to see him go, I believe he was listening quietly to the voice of the sisters and taking to heart their whispers. Hope the new King is a wise and benevolent king. Not all that up on how Kingdoms pass the rulership over so whomever the new caretaker of the Islamic holy mosques is I hope is the right chosen man for the position and he will keep an open ear to the sisters of the Arabian sands. I know the hard line clerics that have much influence in the Kingdom probably do not agree with me though.
I assume the successorship comes without dissent and the family council approves. So that's it, King Abdullah has departed, the new king reigns and somewhere in this great universe of ours, it's snowing.
Kind of sorry to see him go, I believe he was listening quietly to the voice of the sisters and taking to heart their whispers. Hope the new King is a wise and benevolent king. Not all that up on how Kingdoms pass the rulership over so whomever the new caretaker of the Islamic holy mosques is I hope is the right chosen man for the position and he will keep an open ear to the sisters of the Arabian sands. I know the hard line clerics that have much influence in the Kingdom probably do not agree with me though.
I assume the successorship comes without dissent and the family council approves. So that's it, King Abdullah has departed, the new king reigns and somewhere in this great universe of ours, it's snowing.
4
Dear New York Times Reader, this is a summary of many great achievements that had been done by the most beloved king in the modern history of Saudi Arabia:
1- Created King Abdullah University of Science and Technology ( KAUST),
which is privileged with $ 20 billion endowment. http://www.kaust.edu.sa/
2- Raised the local Saudi Universities form 7 in 2004 to more than 19 in 2015.
3- Started an ambitious scholarship program for Saudi youth that includes both men and women despite some conservative concerns. Today, more than 100,000 students are in the USA alone.
4- Allowed women for the first time to be appointed in the Legislative Part of the regime which is called MAJLES ALSHORA. Today, 20% of The SHORA Counsel are women.
5- Improved the position of Saudi Arabia in the world by joining The G20.
6- Continued the path of charity as one of the most generous countries in the world. According to the World Bank the foreign aid counts for approximately 1.5% of Gross National Income (GNI) of Saudi economy.
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/foreign-aid/saudiarabia.php
7- He was the first Saudi King who visited the Vatican and met with The Pop Benedict the second. Where he Showed the tolerance of ISLAM by the establishment of King Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz International Center for Inter-religious and Inter-cultural Dialogue, (KAICIID) later in Vienna 2014.
http://www.kaiciid.org/en/the-centre/
Finally, the world today lost a moderate voice.
1- Created King Abdullah University of Science and Technology ( KAUST),
which is privileged with $ 20 billion endowment. http://www.kaust.edu.sa/
2- Raised the local Saudi Universities form 7 in 2004 to more than 19 in 2015.
3- Started an ambitious scholarship program for Saudi youth that includes both men and women despite some conservative concerns. Today, more than 100,000 students are in the USA alone.
4- Allowed women for the first time to be appointed in the Legislative Part of the regime which is called MAJLES ALSHORA. Today, 20% of The SHORA Counsel are women.
5- Improved the position of Saudi Arabia in the world by joining The G20.
6- Continued the path of charity as one of the most generous countries in the world. According to the World Bank the foreign aid counts for approximately 1.5% of Gross National Income (GNI) of Saudi economy.
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/foreign-aid/saudiarabia.php
7- He was the first Saudi King who visited the Vatican and met with The Pop Benedict the second. Where he Showed the tolerance of ISLAM by the establishment of King Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz International Center for Inter-religious and Inter-cultural Dialogue, (KAICIID) later in Vienna 2014.
http://www.kaiciid.org/en/the-centre/
Finally, the world today lost a moderate voice.
21
Regarding His Majesty's graciousness in permitting women to hold minority representation in a powerless parliamentary body (#4) - Bravo! Most other countries have allowed women to be elected at-large in actual Parliamentary bodies. They even let them drive to work and show their faces in public, should they so choose.
And let it also suffice to say that his support for education and charity that you cite is helping other Muslim countries the world over establish similar breakthroughs.
A high bar His Excellence has set, indeed.
And let it also suffice to say that his support for education and charity that you cite is helping other Muslim countries the world over establish similar breakthroughs.
A high bar His Excellence has set, indeed.
8
Some impressive accomplishments, perhaps, but no list of accomplishments, how ever grand or commendable, stands as a moral offset or justification for the kinds of human rights abuses Saudi Arabia commits on an ongoing basis.
9
My friend, the capital of your country is named after Gorge Washington who once said:
”I can only say that no man living wishes more sincerely than I do to see the abolition of (slavery)… But when slaves who are happy & content to remain with their present masters, are tampered with & seduced to leave them… it introduces more evils than it can cure."(Hirschfield,p187).
I believe that Historical figures should not be considered as simplistic as pure evil or pure good, they should be considered as great leaders with the limitation of their time and society. Otherwise, we give them an unjust judgement.
”I can only say that no man living wishes more sincerely than I do to see the abolition of (slavery)… But when slaves who are happy & content to remain with their present masters, are tampered with & seduced to leave them… it introduces more evils than it can cure."(Hirschfield,p187).
I believe that Historical figures should not be considered as simplistic as pure evil or pure good, they should be considered as great leaders with the limitation of their time and society. Otherwise, we give them an unjust judgement.
7
Another Saudi king dead. When is the miserable, joyless, retrograde, antediluvian regime that rules Saudi Arabia going to allow a queen to reign, let alone a government resembling something that an early 20th century person would have recognized as vaguely modern?
The leaders of Saudi Arabia have poisoned the modern world with the most crazed, intolerant strain of Islam imaginable. They have made the phrase "Arab oil sheikh" synonymous with the image of a fat, lazy autocratic man who keeps a harem full of terrified Filipino and Sri Lankan girls and women as sex slaves, their passports confiscated and whatnot. I truly, deeply hate the leaders of Saudi Arabia and the utter disregard for human life that they have been able to perpetuate with their massive oil wealth.
And what is totally frightening about Saudi society is that it is teeming with angry militants who are, if anything, even MORE crazed and intolerant on the religion and gender fronts.
The leaders of Saudi Arabia have poisoned the modern world with the most crazed, intolerant strain of Islam imaginable. They have made the phrase "Arab oil sheikh" synonymous with the image of a fat, lazy autocratic man who keeps a harem full of terrified Filipino and Sri Lankan girls and women as sex slaves, their passports confiscated and whatnot. I truly, deeply hate the leaders of Saudi Arabia and the utter disregard for human life that they have been able to perpetuate with their massive oil wealth.
And what is totally frightening about Saudi society is that it is teeming with angry militants who are, if anything, even MORE crazed and intolerant on the religion and gender fronts.
81
Plus 1 for the above response. Why should we enable with our "happy faces" the half measures, lip service, cynicism, inertia, and entrenched power that is Saudi Arabia?
"I truly, deeply hate the leaders of Saudi Arabia and the utter disregard for human life that they have been able to perpetuate with their massive oil wealth."
"I truly, deeply hate the leaders of Saudi Arabia and the utter disregard for human life that they have been able to perpetuate with their massive oil wealth."
10
For those who denigrate him, it could be worse. You don't "change Rome overnight". He was taking cautious steps to allow more freedoms for women, and young men, in his country by allowing them to be educated in Western countries.
Look what's happening in Iraq because W and Cheney took out Saddam. Look what's happening in Syria. Apparently the uneducated fanatics in the various Muslim sects don't allow them to coexist in a country without a strong leadership to keep them in line.
Look what's happening in Iraq because W and Cheney took out Saddam. Look what's happening in Syria. Apparently the uneducated fanatics in the various Muslim sects don't allow them to coexist in a country without a strong leadership to keep them in line.
18
Oh give me a break. He's a monarch in a theocracy. He wants it the way it is. Isn't there anyone not even a billionaire king that can be held accountable for his actions?
11
When the oil was first discovered the Arabs of the peninsula were not as backward and closed off mentally and dogmatically as they are now. It was a religious and conservative live and let live nomadic society.
What we have there now has been invented and created as they "modernised" and that oil money and modernisation assisted by the US and European powers made it possible for the royal family to impose these up til then fantasy ideas of what an "Islamic nation" is like on the people. they are living in a self generated fantasy not some modern extension of what went before.
What we have there now has been invented and created as they "modernised" and that oil money and modernisation assisted by the US and European powers made it possible for the royal family to impose these up til then fantasy ideas of what an "Islamic nation" is like on the people. they are living in a self generated fantasy not some modern extension of what went before.
16
"More room for women" -- you mean like the four adult daughters he has held under house arrest for the past 13 years?
http://www.channel4.com/news/saudi-arabia-king-abdullah-alanoud-al-fayez...
http://www.channel4.com/news/saudi-arabia-king-abdullah-alanoud-al-fayez...
12
Another old man takes the reins of the country, no changes, no freedoms for women or freedoms for anyone. Sorry to see him dead, it's business as usual for the country...
12
He might have been a King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, but he was no King Abdullah of Jordan! Look, I could do really well too, if I had all that oil under my feet!! And with all those supposed accomplishments, why do so many of these terrorists, have roots in Saudi Arabia?!!!
22
The article goes to pains to try to paint the King as moderate. The simple fact is that he was a corrupt and brutal King in the last country with an absolute monarch, and a very repressive state apparatus. Why pull punches just because Saudi Arabia is an ally? In fact, for its brutality and repression, the U.S. should sever all relations.
74
I don't know a great deal about the royal family or King Abdullah. But I have spent time in Saudi Arabia, working on projects to advance the education of both boys and girls. The individuals I have met and worked with were lovely, sincere people who had a great interest in American people, culture, and politics. If the death of their king brings them grief or distress, my heart goes out to them.
32
What a wise thing to say! When you know people individually it's hard to hate them or demonize them regardless whether they are from america or saudi arabia
9
No one who is criticizing the SA government, or figures within that gov't, is "hating" or "demonizing" any poor person unlucky enough to live there. I would think the general feeling is that the Saudi people deserve better than having half their population held in virtual slavery, and the entire population subjected to beheading, amputation and lashing.
I think the commenters here don't understand the complexity of Saudi politics. I spent 18 months in the Kingdom, and even with that, barely scratched the surface.
Ultimately, the reality is that politics in Saudi are a delicate balancing act keeping the right and left happy. Strong pushback from the right can threaten the monarchy (and stability) of the Kingdom, which was a particularly large risk after the assault on the Grand Mosque in 1979. After that event, the Al Saud's began allowing the religious right to have more say in policy.
While the human rights record of Saudi is weak, Americans should understand by now that you can't just open a country up to democracy and liberal ideals and expect it all to work. The Al Sauds are the force that stabilizes the multiple tribes, not to mention the Shia in the East, from slaughtering each other.
Ultimately, I'm much more supportive of a strong Saudi government that has good relations with the West and slowly liberalizes its country, as opposed to sectarian chaos that can be found be found in Yemen, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. Fast change is hard. Abdul Aziz can be credited with marching a long march slowly enough to survive.
Ultimately, the reality is that politics in Saudi are a delicate balancing act keeping the right and left happy. Strong pushback from the right can threaten the monarchy (and stability) of the Kingdom, which was a particularly large risk after the assault on the Grand Mosque in 1979. After that event, the Al Saud's began allowing the religious right to have more say in policy.
While the human rights record of Saudi is weak, Americans should understand by now that you can't just open a country up to democracy and liberal ideals and expect it all to work. The Al Sauds are the force that stabilizes the multiple tribes, not to mention the Shia in the East, from slaughtering each other.
Ultimately, I'm much more supportive of a strong Saudi government that has good relations with the West and slowly liberalizes its country, as opposed to sectarian chaos that can be found be found in Yemen, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. Fast change is hard. Abdul Aziz can be credited with marching a long march slowly enough to survive.
33
i am saudi lady and truly agree with u
8
"[T]he human rights record of Saudi is weak" . . .
You have an immense gift for understatement.
You have an immense gift for understatement.
24
Mixed emotions. Wahabi does not match my ideals, and the King did much to promote it worldwide. Still, I think we expect too much if we seek great "reform" in the western sense; we can and should hope for reform in the Islamic sense, understanding that Sharia as the law is far from our cultural ideals. The king tried to find a moderate line between the radical Committee on Virtue and the clerics who surrounded him, sought some balance between western culture and expectations and theirs, and tried to move the tribal culture toward a posture which would both survive and grow. Tough sledding, especially with no snow - by which I mean that the country has no other resources than oil on which to build its future.
The new king will have his hands full! Let's hope they are big and skillful hands, and friendly to us.
The new king will have his hands full! Let's hope they are big and skillful hands, and friendly to us.
25
You neglect the fact that many Muslims do not believe in Sharia legal systems. Surprising as it may be to you, many Muslims actually believe in separation of religion and state. My reformist friends from the Muslim world put Western civil libertarians to shame. They just don't get much press.
4
How modern is a place that publicly beheaded a woman from Myanmar in the street a few days ago?
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/20/saudi-arabias-beheadings-are-public-...
and has sentenced a blogger to 1000 lashes --
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/raif-badawi-saudi-bl...
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/20/saudi-arabias-beheadings-are-public-...
and has sentenced a blogger to 1000 lashes --
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/raif-badawi-saudi-bl...
82
I'll bet the crime rate is low. That is the product when those who do commit crimes are certain that justice will act swiftly and punishment will be just. Compare that to our 20 year death row sentences, turnstile justice system that can be manipulated by shyster lawyers and people with wealth. Our criminals know that this and thus become career criminals. How many times must we arrest a person who plea bargains his way to a cushy sentence so he can commit the same crime again?
NYHugenot, well, if there system is so great and works so well, wouldn't the beheadings and lashings become unnecessary, as everyone obeys the law? But, it's not about crime prevention, it's about controlling society.
I wonder also how lashing women who are raped contributes to a reduction in rape? I won't be holding my breath for answers ...
I wonder also how lashing women who are raped contributes to a reduction in rape? I won't be holding my breath for answers ...
Seems like a ton of resources were spent to keep one guy alive to 90. Surprising his country doesn't hate him, what with their poverty rate and the fact that nothing's being done about their water running out.
5
It's Saudi Arabia, not Yemen. Very rich, little poverty and plenty of water treatment plants.
9
But DS, 20% in abject poverty do not count? From time.com:
With its vast oil wealth, Saudi Arabia has one of the highest concentrations of super rich households in the world. But an estimated 20 percent of the population, if not more, lives in crippling poverty. Beggars panhandle in the shadows of Riyadh’s luxury shopping malls, and just a few kilometers away families struggle to get by in the capital’s southern slums.
Read more: Rich Nation, Poor People: Saudi Arabia by Lynsey Addario - LightBox http://time.com/3679537/rich-nation-poor-people-saudi-arabia/#ixzz3PcPvCdCs
With its vast oil wealth, Saudi Arabia has one of the highest concentrations of super rich households in the world. But an estimated 20 percent of the population, if not more, lives in crippling poverty. Beggars panhandle in the shadows of Riyadh’s luxury shopping malls, and just a few kilometers away families struggle to get by in the capital’s southern slums.
Read more: Rich Nation, Poor People: Saudi Arabia by Lynsey Addario - LightBox http://time.com/3679537/rich-nation-poor-people-saudi-arabia/#ixzz3PcPvCdCs
7
Dear DS,
Sorry but that's incorrect. Saudi Arabia has at least 20% of its population below the internationally judged poverty line, and quite possibly rather more than that. It is nowhere near the tops in water treatment plants, and doubtless does not have enough to completely supply its population with fresh water. It has zero rivers or lakes, and is draining its aquifer faster than the aquifer can replenish itself.
It is certainly better off than Yemen, but it is very rich with a lot of poverty and nowhere near enough water treatment plants. Here's some corroborating links, and I don't mean to come off as antagonistic or supercilious, I wish you well.
http://www.albawaba.com/news/saudi-arabia-poverty-world-bank
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-saudi-arabia-unemployment-and-boo...
http://islamtimes.org/en/doc/article/354261/saudi-arabia-richest-and-poo...
Sorry but that's incorrect. Saudi Arabia has at least 20% of its population below the internationally judged poverty line, and quite possibly rather more than that. It is nowhere near the tops in water treatment plants, and doubtless does not have enough to completely supply its population with fresh water. It has zero rivers or lakes, and is draining its aquifer faster than the aquifer can replenish itself.
It is certainly better off than Yemen, but it is very rich with a lot of poverty and nowhere near enough water treatment plants. Here's some corroborating links, and I don't mean to come off as antagonistic or supercilious, I wish you well.
http://www.albawaba.com/news/saudi-arabia-poverty-world-bank
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-saudi-arabia-unemployment-and-boo...
http://islamtimes.org/en/doc/article/354261/saudi-arabia-richest-and-poo...
Saudi Arabia is an interesting example of how complicated politics can be. For sure the Saudi regime is one of the most anti-democratic systems in the world and far, far removed from the values that we cherish such as democracy, equality of sexes, religions, national origin.... you name it.
Aside from the very important oil factor, we do however have shared interests with Saudi Arabia whereby, as weird as it is, Saudi Arabia has become a moderating player in the Middle East, opposing ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas; providing a balance against the even worse human rights violating Iran. With the principle of the enemy of my enemy is my friend, Saudi Arabia is even somewhat aligned with Israel.
We should not be naive about the nature of the Saudi regime, but in 2015 we better have them as an ally than not.
Aside from the very important oil factor, we do however have shared interests with Saudi Arabia whereby, as weird as it is, Saudi Arabia has become a moderating player in the Middle East, opposing ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas; providing a balance against the even worse human rights violating Iran. With the principle of the enemy of my enemy is my friend, Saudi Arabia is even somewhat aligned with Israel.
We should not be naive about the nature of the Saudi regime, but in 2015 we better have them as an ally than not.
12
You're right. But I wish more people would remember that *we* (the West) created the situation where Iran (which was a democracy before we intervened and installed the Shah) is a theocracy and enemy, and SA--which has been a barbarian wasteland for... ever--is our purported "friend." This rich, fat, racist, sexist, homophobic, plutocrat hit the genetic jackpot. That is the single reason we even know his name, and we should try and forget it as fast as possible. The time for kings is LONG gone.
1
"... opposing ISIS..."
Are you kidding? They fund ISIS, and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to even lift finger to do anything about it.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts...
Are you kidding? They fund ISIS, and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to even lift finger to do anything about it.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts...
"...The time for kings is LONG gone..." I venture to say that this depends on what would come afterwards.
A sad day for Saudi Arabia, Middle East and the world. King Abdullah should be remembered for his courage, wisdom and his effort to modernize his country. He should be given credit for his courageous initiative, to promote a peaceful settlement for the Palestinian Israeli conflict endorsed by members of the Arab league nations, to recognize the state of Israel and establishment of a Palestinian State on the 1967 borders unfortunately rejected by Israel. I 'm surprised by some comments today from people worrying about Saudi women driving a car or riding a bicycle and ignoring the
Saudi leadership accomplishment of keeping the nation united in spite of all that is happening in the region. I presume a Saudi citizen today appreciate the fact that the sovereignty of his country is still intact as every other place in the region is falling apart.
Saudi leadership accomplishment of keeping the nation united in spite of all that is happening in the region. I presume a Saudi citizen today appreciate the fact that the sovereignty of his country is still intact as every other place in the region is falling apart.
11
This would have more credibility had he treated his own daughters better.
http://muftah.org/interview-imprisoned-daughter-saudi-arabias-king-abdul...
What good is sovereignty to people who are enslaved?
http://muftah.org/interview-imprisoned-daughter-saudi-arabias-king-abdul...
What good is sovereignty to people who are enslaved?
The country that gave us 15 out of the 19 attackers on 9/11, and then Bush flew their family out while the 300 million Americans were locked out of the skies.
Glad a young, fresh blood, new King Salaman, 79, is taking over.
This kingdom, which owns the country, manages a society that is comprised of a huge sunni segment that is sympathetic and financially supportive of AQ and ISIS. And, a shiitte minotiry residing in the oil rich areas, that is repressed, in poverty and ready to slit the throats of the house of saud. the whole place is a landmine with a heavy bin-saud butt holding down the trigger. we are better of exploring and grooming other countries in the region to become more moderate and our allies.
BTW, the same ally that bans women from most jobs, from driving and still has public executions and slashing -sharia law. really, a more controlled ISIS.
Glad a young, fresh blood, new King Salaman, 79, is taking over.
This kingdom, which owns the country, manages a society that is comprised of a huge sunni segment that is sympathetic and financially supportive of AQ and ISIS. And, a shiitte minotiry residing in the oil rich areas, that is repressed, in poverty and ready to slit the throats of the house of saud. the whole place is a landmine with a heavy bin-saud butt holding down the trigger. we are better of exploring and grooming other countries in the region to become more moderate and our allies.
BTW, the same ally that bans women from most jobs, from driving and still has public executions and slashing -sharia law. really, a more controlled ISIS.
68
"The country that gave us 15 out of the 19 attackers on 9/11, and then Bush flew their family out while the 300 million Americans were locked out of the skies. "
Then we turned around and went to war with Iraq and King Abdullah dies in his bed.
Sorry, but it needed to be said again.
Then we turned around and went to war with Iraq and King Abdullah dies in his bed.
Sorry, but it needed to be said again.
22
Saudi Arabia has been financing and supporting worldwide terrorism for decades during the King's rule. He was neither a reformer nor our ally. It is sad we have been fooled by him and others, and average American doesn't even know why we (still) think Saudis are our friends.
109
Abdullla hasn't been king for decades -- only since 2005, when his brother, King Fahd, died. Otherwise, however, you make a valid point.
7
Jack, we haven't been fooled; it's about oil and money, and with that combination, morality goes out the door.
De facto ruler since 1995 ...
As a Muslim, I say that this is no real loss to the world or to Muslims. The Saudis with their money and their mullahs have corrupted Islam in many parts of the world teaching slogans and ignoring humanity and debasing the rights of women and Abdullah played a major role in this. And off course the United States with its longstanding oil ties to Saudi Arabia has played a major role in the repression in that country. We should hope for the best for the next king although its hard to imagine that he could possibly be worse.
218
Played a 'major role,' or was its last expression? Moderate voices were allowed, like the young Saudi's lady's voice cited among the 'picks.' Her role changes and Abdullah's conscious manipulations of the price of oil suggest he was indeed a loss to the hopefully changing world of Islam.
I actually think the opposite is true. To me, it sounds like the problem is the religion, and Saudi Arabia is just the result of taking an inherently conservative / medieval religion (or any religion for that matter) to its logical extreme. If Abdullah didn't have the mullahs and the religious police to contend with, do you think we would be talking about women driving cars, flogging dissidents, young girls burning etc. or talking about his record as a leader in educating and enriching his citizens? I think Abdullah was just trying to manage the country's ugly religious forces, and not inherently the problem.
1
Saudi Arabia is the the very heart of radical Islam that has given rise to ISIS. It is a ruthless medieval monarchy that is now trying to recapture the oil industry by dumping cheap oil on the world market to undercut the U.S, fracking industry. It is truly "the heart of darkness" in the Middle East that we embrace at the twin perils of spreading terrorism in the region and economic destabilization at home. It's treatment of women and dissenters is an abomination to Western culture and should be forcefully repudiated by the West rather than given a pass because they tacitly support us. We should use the death of King Abdullah and our new found oil independence to establish a new relationship with the Kingdom that emphasizes human rights as part of a new vision of the Middle East that works to spread the wealth in the region to eliminate the seeds that sprout radical Islamic rebellion.
86
Brilliant!
Cautious modernizer? What? The monarch of a country that sentences women who elope and people who insult the Prophet to lashes? What change did he put into effect? They use the mountain of oil that they sit on as leverage to continue being a medieval country?
138
I always suspected that the King wanted to be more of a reformer than he was able to. He was between a rock and a hard place with the disproportionately powerful Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of vice, as well as the fundamentalist forces within Saudi society, who would happily try to overthrow the Royals (like in the earlier Mosque attack) if things become more Western. The Kingdom may turn away from reactionary practices several generations down (irony fully noted!). Stopping beheadings would be a good place to start.
33
And the lashings. And the stonings. And the funding of terrorism. There are many points from which they could start. What do you bet every fundamentalist imam and believer in that country has a cell phone and can see on the internet that they promote what the vast majority of human beings believe to be barbaric, cruel practises?
I think we are OK with his brother but after that.... we need to cultivate some new friends
5
I generally shy away from "Sky-is-Falling" scenarios, but with King Abdullah goes the last vestige of stability in the Middle East. Between Israel, the CIA, Iran, the Arab Spring and the military-petroleum complex, the chances for a stable transition is very remote. The late king leaves a legion of princes, many of whom are surely willing to sell out to one side or the other. Another thing we can kiss goodbye is $45-per-barrel oil.
11
We can expect little change with the "new" regime. Wahabism, the Saudi gift to modern Islam promoted by them in madrasas around the world, will continue to fuel the ruinous, bloody clash of cultures. Women will still be treated as chattel; any critical comments in journals will be punished with prison, public lashings and more restrictions; the Sunni vs Shiite war through Saudi and Iranian proxies will flourish; and the non-Muslim West will cluck, cluck, cluck so as not to offend either oil producing theocratic monster.
131
The beloved King Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz was a simple and sincere man yet a strong leader of Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. He was in fact the Father of all Saudis. It is a sad day.
14
The world has lost a great leader.A humble, soft spoken, generous, caring man.
A true believer in peaceful/harmony coexistence between Muslims and non-Muslims.
My personal sympathies to Muslims worldwide.
A true believer in peaceful/harmony coexistence between Muslims and non-Muslims.
My personal sympathies to Muslims worldwide.
13
How much coexistence is there of Muslims and non - Muslims in Saudi Arabia? Do churches, synagogues, Hindu temples, or the like exist there? That would be news.
84
According to a U.S. State Department report, the penalty for Saudi Muslims who convert to another religion is death; whether this penalty has ever been carried out, I do not know.
19
An absolute dictatorship, with barbaric punishments for "moral transgressions." Very progressive, indeed.
211
'In 2007, he pardoned a teenage girl who had been sentenced to six months in jail and 100 lashes after being raped.'
This guy was truly magnanimous! We surely lost a great friend.
This guy was truly magnanimous! We surely lost a great friend.
189
Interesting times. Would there be any significant in-fighting among the princes? Oil price will get lower still, for sure now? RIP Saudi King.
3
Reading this, somehow I think the king could have been a bit more nudge-ier.
23
Forgive me if I don't shed any tears. This man was the leader of a country that has one of the worst human rights records in the world which he perpetuated (22 children and 4 wives, divorced 13 times!). There is no due process for alleged crimes, non-Muslims are treated as indentured slaves and women are treated like nothing more than property. Every day women in Saudia Arabia are raped, abused and even executed for the crime of simply being women. It is repugnant to me that we have relations with a country which engages is this type of barbaric treatment of 50% of humanity. Even when our troops went to defend and die them, they would not let them even wear a cross around their neck (forbidden in Islam) or have a beer to relax. He may have pardoned a few people but he upheld a system which oppresses millions in the name of radical, jihadist Islam. We tout values of freedom and equality yet break bread with these hooligans. A true shame.
354
Yes, sure, but we know the alternative is ISIS. Would you prefer them?
1
How many such people do you know? A couple of thousands, nothing more than that. Have you gone thru the entire country. Surely not. Don't write such comments, when you don't have full knowledge. We respect women and know how to protect them from outsiders. Don't teach us all what you yourself don't like.
@R. A. Khan: Save your smugness. We in the west have enough facts to back up our views.
Your ideas of what constitute "respect" for women are barbaric. Your "protection" of women from outsiders is purely to keep your women from knowing that they are people with full rights as humans, and not just some man's property. Don't preach your brand of misogyny to us, because we're not buying ANY of it.
Your ideas of what constitute "respect" for women are barbaric. Your "protection" of women from outsiders is purely to keep your women from knowing that they are people with full rights as humans, and not just some man's property. Don't preach your brand of misogyny to us, because we're not buying ANY of it.
21
"Cautious modernizer"? Hardly.
Just this week, they held a public flogging of a blogger.
If these people didn't have oil, and weren't in the energy business with the Bush Family through the Carlisle Group, the State Department would be SCREAMING about their endless human rights abuses, and Congress would be voting for economic sanctions.
Just this week, they held a public flogging of a blogger.
If these people didn't have oil, and weren't in the energy business with the Bush Family through the Carlisle Group, the State Department would be SCREAMING about their endless human rights abuses, and Congress would be voting for economic sanctions.
402
That is if Congress sanctioned any country for human rights abuses. Sadly, sanctions on Iran are about its nuclear program, not its human rights abuses. If the US sanctioned countries for human rights abuses, there would be a long list indeed.
So earlier today, while perusing the internet, I came across a video on one of the news channels depicting a woman being decapitated in a public space. The video went off on its own and before I could turn down the volume or hit pause, I heard the woman's screams that she had not killed anyone. Fortunately, I didn't see much--just a woman covered in black from head to toe. The caption underneath said something about Saudi Arabia justifying this due to Sharia Law.
Then I come across this news, about king Abdullah which talks about his wealth, power and privilege and I can't help but contrast that to the decidedly lack of wealth, power or privilege of the woman on the square, slaughtered with about as much compassion as one would squash a bug.
The Middle East has a problem, folks and Saudi Arabia is public enemy number two, behind our friends ISIS. That problem is the systemic violation of human rights. These violations, under the guise of religion (but no less despicable), affect the lives of every female unlucky enough that "by accident of birth" (to quote your article) had the misfortune of being born Saudi.
I can't grieve for King Abdullah. Thought he accident of *his birth*, he entrusted with the keys to this society. You can pick your excuse, but the fact is he did absolutely nothing to change the plight of SA's weakest members.
In death, he takes none of his wealth. Instead, he leaves behind the legacy of destruction of every little baby girl born during his reign,
Then I come across this news, about king Abdullah which talks about his wealth, power and privilege and I can't help but contrast that to the decidedly lack of wealth, power or privilege of the woman on the square, slaughtered with about as much compassion as one would squash a bug.
The Middle East has a problem, folks and Saudi Arabia is public enemy number two, behind our friends ISIS. That problem is the systemic violation of human rights. These violations, under the guise of religion (but no less despicable), affect the lives of every female unlucky enough that "by accident of birth" (to quote your article) had the misfortune of being born Saudi.
I can't grieve for King Abdullah. Thought he accident of *his birth*, he entrusted with the keys to this society. You can pick your excuse, but the fact is he did absolutely nothing to change the plight of SA's weakest members.
In death, he takes none of his wealth. Instead, he leaves behind the legacy of destruction of every little baby girl born during his reign,
289
IT makes me sick to consider what women endure under Sharia Law.
122
The primary motivation of every Saudi king is to preserve their family's enduring status and wealth. Their second motivation is to keep the Wahhabi clerics happy. By doing the latter, Saudi kings have consented to the brutal treatment of women, men, and children for decades if any dare to speak against Islam or the royal family.
It's disgusting that the U.S. continues to perpetuate our "close" relationship with the kingdom knowing the kinds of atrocities they are committing.
In my view, Saudi Arabia will continue to be a dangerous place no matter how "reforming and liberal" the new king is.
It's disgusting that the U.S. continues to perpetuate our "close" relationship with the kingdom knowing the kinds of atrocities they are committing.
In my view, Saudi Arabia will continue to be a dangerous place no matter how "reforming and liberal" the new king is.
254
I agree, but such is the price of oil, regardless of the price of a barrel on the spot market.
Many, including myself, agree with much of your post. There is however one action we can all take to help stop the brutal treatment. Stop using oil and develop our own renewable energy. Until we all are willing to give up the many conveniences oil-driven energy allows in our relatively coddled lives, we remain complicit in the atrocities being perpetrated by the radical elements around the world. While economic starvation of terrorists is not the only tool that is needed, it is an essential one. And oil is a key component.
A demented absolute monarch in an oil-rich fundamentalist Islamic country with brutal medieval laws and untold wealth, and influence through cash, madrassas and religion all over the world. What could go wrong?
A 'modernizer' who didn't allow women to drive in his country, though he did "allow" them to be supermarket cashiers. What a saint.
208
Boy... the freedom to drive. A true blessing from heaven. This is an easy, somewhat tired target of the West. There are certainly other priorities in the KSA that are more worthy than these silly gripes.
4
It's not one silly gripe, it's the cumulative effect of a thousand small indignities. Anthony illustrated with one of the many.
15
John - it's far from trivial - the right to drive is about freedom. Denying this right to women is another way to deny women equal rights as citizens and as human beings.
I doubt you'd consider it a "silly gripe" if you were forbidden by law to drive - ever. Your entire life. Especially in TX.
Freedom and human rights are always worthy of our attention - and should always be a priority.
I doubt you'd consider it a "silly gripe" if you were forbidden by law to drive - ever. Your entire life. Especially in TX.
Freedom and human rights are always worthy of our attention - and should always be a priority.
36
and Yemen's government has just collapsed.
fasten your seat belts—it is going to be a bumpy year
fasten your seat belts—it is going to be a bumpy year
91
You do realise he and his are responsible don't you?
Saudi ambition is as grandiose as the creation by force of their little kingdom as model of what existed in the Middle Ages. Didn't every kingdom of the Middle Ages seek to conquer and rule as much of the world as they could? And thanks to our help they no longer have to take physical possession of them to do so.
Saudi ambition is as grandiose as the creation by force of their little kingdom as model of what existed in the Middle Ages. Didn't every kingdom of the Middle Ages seek to conquer and rule as much of the world as they could? And thanks to our help they no longer have to take physical possession of them to do so.
2
My sincere personal sympathies to the Saudi royal family and the people of Saudi Arabia. They have lost a fine man and a strong leader.
An extraordinary way to honor their late king would be for his successor to give a full pardon to blogger Raif Badawi and allow him to migrate to Canada to be with his family. There is nothing the king could do that would receive greater praise from the rest of the world community.
An extraordinary way to honor their late king would be for his successor to give a full pardon to blogger Raif Badawi and allow him to migrate to Canada to be with his family. There is nothing the king could do that would receive greater praise from the rest of the world community.
35
Allowing women to drive might receive greater praise from the rest of the world...just saying.
50
You may be right. However, I would argue that freedom of speech is more important than freedom to drive a car.
25
And....how about releasing his 4 daughters from house arrest? They have been held against their will for the last 15 years!
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But the more I look at it, the more I see Wahabism as a root cause of many of the problems that beset the region today. Wahabism is not the only Islam. Is it more prone to extremism? Recent events suggest that is so, although the oppression required to keep the Saudi Royal Family in power may contribute to that. Tolerance in the Kingdom of different Islamic sects would go a long way, but is obviously incompatible with the family remaining in power. If change comes, I bet it comes all of a sudden and with violence and tumult. Enjoy the cheap gas while it lasts.