Really, the logical solution is to have a minor league system like there is in baseball. Young atheletes can focus on their future professional sports careers, universities can focus on education.
The main concern is that it may not draw as much attention without the guarrenteed support base of students and alumni of the associated colleges. But that can be circumvented too if these teams have strong associations with their local communities, or even play on college campuses (as they do now). The key point is that it is necessary to make a distinction between the finances of these junior atheletes from that of colleges and universities, and between the young atheletes and actual students.
The main concern is that it may not draw as much attention without the guarrenteed support base of students and alumni of the associated colleges. But that can be circumvented too if these teams have strong associations with their local communities, or even play on college campuses (as they do now). The key point is that it is necessary to make a distinction between the finances of these junior atheletes from that of colleges and universities, and between the young atheletes and actual students.
5
There is a solution: it's called "professional sports". No one insisted that the Williams sisters play tennis for a university. There were no restrictions on when Tiger Woods could turn pro. Jeff Gordon wasn't working on a degree in engineering before he could race in NASCAR. The majority of MLB players dont have to sit through intro Engilsh courses (a large number can't even speak English). Let the NFL and NBA implement a development league and quit having taxpayers subsidize the joke that the NCAA football system has become.
6
College football has sold its soul. The student athlete, certainly with respect to football, no longer exists. Not in numbers that matter. Most have, as expressed by the game winning quarterback of Ohio State, no interest in going to classes. Learning enough to be hired by someone off the playing field, away from the thing they do best, is for most of these "student athletes" a waste of time. Not ours, of course, we can't take our eyes off these gladiators of the gridiron.
1
It is depressing to me that there can be such deep concern about the direction universities are headed WITHOUT EVEN discussing the the clear evidence of neurologic damage students are receiving.
1
Not to mention the blatant lie that most college football programs make a profit and/or support all other sports. My state's flagship university loses money on football every year and depends on exhorbitant student fees and special funding from the high administrators' offices to lose a little less. Each "student-athlete" gets more academic support and other perks every week than the average student-student gets in his/her entire 4+ year campus career.
5
it's way past time for a National Commission to see if this ludicrous mess can be stopped.
2
I teach each year with professors from a number of the enormous state universities. They all know the system is corrupt. The players are largely, although not exclusively there to play sports. They are not student athletes, the are athletes. If the players actually graduated with a meaningful education, maybe all the money would be OK. They do not. At a minimum, we need to get rid of the pretense that the players are students. They are football employees of the colleges who are not paid and are not getting an education. And many schools have the gall to charge a student activity fee to send more money to the athletic departments. And these largely liberal institutions get on their high horses on many political issues, all the while they are running this student athlete scam while they are ripping off the other students with their fees.
2
When I was a kid, I watched a football game that was interrupted by commercials. Nowadays, it is commercials interrupted by a football game. I do not watch anymore. Big money sours the enjoyment.
5
I record everything when it comes to college & pro football, avoid the radio, and watch later. Not only because of the repetitive ads but the prattle between plays.
Howard Cosell, we do miss you.
Howard Cosell, we do miss you.
2
I think that if you are going to pay the athletes a salary, then the business that generates the money cannot be a non-profit, and that students should not also get a scholarship. Pay them enough that they can pay for their tuition, books, room and board, etc. But don't give them a free ride on top of that - if they are there to get an education, make them earn it. Also, the argument that others get rich on their hard work is a false argument. Ask the factory worker or the fast food worker who works standing up all day in physically greulling jobs if they are paid fairly for the amount of work they do. Most of us feel we are owed more - but we all work in a system that does not allow negotiating power (or very little). College athletes are in such a system, and though it may not seem fair, it's what most of us deal with in life.
4
I knew friends who played football and basketball at my alma mater, Vanderbilt, and I found most of them decent and hardworking, using sports to get a degree which was otherwise unobtainable. The scandals we are reading about pertain to football and basketball a few dozen schools. So what could we do?
We could fix this by moving towards one of two models. First is the baseball model. You never hear about scandals in college baseball, because MLB implemented a minor league system nearly a century ago. many MLB players went to college, but it's not a necessary step. A minor league football or basketball system would allow boys who wanted to play but had no academic inclination to begin their careers, for pay, immediately. The second solution is to guarantee each student who signs to play at an NCAA school the right to four years of college, with classes available at any time during the next say 10 years or so. A student could take a reduced schedule during the season or take summer classes or wait until playing days are over. Rick Telander suggested this plan in a 1989 article in Sports Illustrated.
We could fix this by moving towards one of two models. First is the baseball model. You never hear about scandals in college baseball, because MLB implemented a minor league system nearly a century ago. many MLB players went to college, but it's not a necessary step. A minor league football or basketball system would allow boys who wanted to play but had no academic inclination to begin their careers, for pay, immediately. The second solution is to guarantee each student who signs to play at an NCAA school the right to four years of college, with classes available at any time during the next say 10 years or so. A student could take a reduced schedule during the season or take summer classes or wait until playing days are over. Rick Telander suggested this plan in a 1989 article in Sports Illustrated.
8
Judging from the comments and Joe's article, the smart people have a long way to go to develop the maturity and wisdom to explore how we as a nation might make the best of a situation filled with inconsistencies and promise. It was a cheap shot for Joe to cite Cardale Jones' tweet about academics. Today's times has a piece that clearly shows how this kid has grown since then. (How many of us would stand behind our freshman-in-college sentiments?) Our family has an OSU sophomore, a gifted student for whom the college has proven immeasurably beneficial in his transition to manhood, offering challenges and experiences beyond what any home can provide. Part of that is the pride in the excellence of a great atheletic program.
As to paying the athletes? There should be enough brains at the table here to come up with some innovative ideas, like perhaps giving athletes money in escrow for when the graduate, perhaps with the option to start an IRA. Most of them will not have professional careers and they deserve something for their contribution. Discuss...
As to paying the athletes? There should be enough brains at the table here to come up with some innovative ideas, like perhaps giving athletes money in escrow for when the graduate, perhaps with the option to start an IRA. Most of them will not have professional careers and they deserve something for their contribution. Discuss...
3
This retirement-fund idea would definitely be a godsend to the all-loo-large majority of these pros who are bereft within a couple of years of leaving their careers. We might use the cash flowing in from TV to fund medical care in the future for both the NFL luckies and the also-rans.
4
A solution to some of these problems is to offer a recruited athlete a choice: 1) play football full-time for us, no classes required, and we'll give you a four-year education some time in the future when you're available. This addresses the NFL-bound payers and the NFL should pay for the promised future educational benefits.
2) we'll pay you now with a four-year scholarship but you have to meet the schools scholastic requirements. This addresses the true "scholar-athlete" who wants to play but also wants an education more than an NFL career.
2) we'll pay you now with a four-year scholarship but you have to meet the schools scholastic requirements. This addresses the true "scholar-athlete" who wants to play but also wants an education more than an NFL career.
6
Joe. Joe. Joe.
You summarize your polemic with a four year old tweet from an 18 year old kid from a hard scrabble neighborhood in Cleveland. When I was an 18 year old college freshman, I thought classes were pointless, too. I'll bet you harbored similar sentiments from time to time. Well maybe not. Progressives are so tuned in.
That kid is now 22, and last night he said that his major focus at Ohio State was completing his degree. Perhaps he was being disingenuous, or he was brainwashed by the athletic department, or he was just well coached by the media arm of your industrial complex. Or, perhaps his athletic experience coupled with the birth of his daughter has led to his maturation.
Free education, notwithstanding, I think Cardale's future looks pretty good this morning, even if his isn't the starting QB come the next football season.
You summarize your polemic with a four year old tweet from an 18 year old kid from a hard scrabble neighborhood in Cleveland. When I was an 18 year old college freshman, I thought classes were pointless, too. I'll bet you harbored similar sentiments from time to time. Well maybe not. Progressives are so tuned in.
That kid is now 22, and last night he said that his major focus at Ohio State was completing his degree. Perhaps he was being disingenuous, or he was brainwashed by the athletic department, or he was just well coached by the media arm of your industrial complex. Or, perhaps his athletic experience coupled with the birth of his daughter has led to his maturation.
Free education, notwithstanding, I think Cardale's future looks pretty good this morning, even if his isn't the starting QB come the next football season.
5
"Let the Big Dog Eat!"
That surely is the motto of 21st century American culture, and college football in particular (did anyone honestly think that tiny TCU would get selected for the tournament over mighty Ohio State, with its massive alumni and TV ratings fan base? Just wait until Notre Dame makes the Top Ten!).
Football is the closest thing America has to a national religion, our own Circus Maximus. We are now in the midst of the High Holydays of bowl games and playoffs, culminating in the national religious holiday called Super Sunday (the Ninth Sunday Before Easter in the Gregorian calendar).
But then again, without football and sports, what would we have to talk about with strangers, since we no longer have any national consensus on books, religion, music, movies or art? So I guess that means I will be planted in front of my TV for the next big football game, just so I can have something to talk about with the people that I meet.
That surely is the motto of 21st century American culture, and college football in particular (did anyone honestly think that tiny TCU would get selected for the tournament over mighty Ohio State, with its massive alumni and TV ratings fan base? Just wait until Notre Dame makes the Top Ten!).
Football is the closest thing America has to a national religion, our own Circus Maximus. We are now in the midst of the High Holydays of bowl games and playoffs, culminating in the national religious holiday called Super Sunday (the Ninth Sunday Before Easter in the Gregorian calendar).
But then again, without football and sports, what would we have to talk about with strangers, since we no longer have any national consensus on books, religion, music, movies or art? So I guess that means I will be planted in front of my TV for the next big football game, just so I can have something to talk about with the people that I meet.
5
I think the most interesting and overlooked point here is that these are public institutions with public funding, however the public that is taxed for them may not see the games (one result of their taxes) unless they pay for ESPN, which is only available in expensive bundles with other unwanted items.
I think that if we are going to pay taxes to support these schools and their programs, including athletics, and they are considered state schools, then there should be ways for the taxpayers to share in the benefits for less than 50 to 80 dollars a month or more!!!
I do not have cable, I have broadcast TV, and would have loved to see the game... even in a one time pay version, like a stadium ticket, but of course that was not available with ESPN owning the rights.
We need to decide, is this a commercial enterprise, (which is not a public educational institution's mandate or purpose), or an educational one to benefit the students and public. If the former, then separate the athletics from the schools, and I am fine with ESPN owning the rights etc. I may not like that with the NFL, (and one could argue the same about subsidized stadiums there), but they are a private business. If the latter, which I think enriches us all, then I have a problem with the way money has started to exclude folks as spectators who subsidize, but can't pay for ESPN and cable, or fancy new stadium seats at the colleges, as well as athletes who enriched rather than employed by their sports.
I think that if we are going to pay taxes to support these schools and their programs, including athletics, and they are considered state schools, then there should be ways for the taxpayers to share in the benefits for less than 50 to 80 dollars a month or more!!!
I do not have cable, I have broadcast TV, and would have loved to see the game... even in a one time pay version, like a stadium ticket, but of course that was not available with ESPN owning the rights.
We need to decide, is this a commercial enterprise, (which is not a public educational institution's mandate or purpose), or an educational one to benefit the students and public. If the former, then separate the athletics from the schools, and I am fine with ESPN owning the rights etc. I may not like that with the NFL, (and one could argue the same about subsidized stadiums there), but they are a private business. If the latter, which I think enriches us all, then I have a problem with the way money has started to exclude folks as spectators who subsidize, but can't pay for ESPN and cable, or fancy new stadium seats at the colleges, as well as athletes who enriched rather than employed by their sports.
1
Things may be different in Chapel Hill, but in my city we have these things called sports bars where, for the price of a beer or two, you can watch any televised game.
1
"...we ain’t come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS.”
Well, there you go.
Still, that coaches get paid millions while the players get a pittance is sheer perversity. The Universities should be ashamed of themselves.
Well, there you go.
Still, that coaches get paid millions while the players get a pittance is sheer perversity. The Universities should be ashamed of themselves.
3
As I wrote elsewhere, if he did go to play "school", then school lost.
1
Maybe the Div I universities have already thought of this but why not offer football players a Football major. The classes would essentially be the practices and games but with some additional class requirements such as "Managing Personal Wealth", "Dealing with Long Term Disability", "The Role of pro Football in American Culture", "Collective Bargaining", "Economics of College and Pro Football" etc. Make all class work pass-fail. Then, at least, student athletes would gain some useful information for later on in life and everyone looking at the resume of the football majors would know that the degree earned was based more on brawn than brain.
As it is now, the student-athlete in the football mills is the exception, not the rule and that myth damages the universities' reputation academically and ruins them ethically.
The more honest approach would be to separate the football programs from the schools with the affiliated university offering scholarships to football players who want a college education but the clubs would pay the football players out of revenues. And, to get even more real, the NFL should pay these clubs because, after all, the football mills are the NFL farm teams.
As it is now, the student-athlete in the football mills is the exception, not the rule and that myth damages the universities' reputation academically and ruins them ethically.
The more honest approach would be to separate the football programs from the schools with the affiliated university offering scholarships to football players who want a college education but the clubs would pay the football players out of revenues. And, to get even more real, the NFL should pay these clubs because, after all, the football mills are the NFL farm teams.
2
The power of the powerful controlling college football ensures there will be no significant changes made to the structure of college football and basketball. The money in football is the same money that elects politicians. And that money will not allow reform. It would be easier to get the NRA on board with background checks. So, in a plea to all the college football and basketball players out there: UNIONIZE and STRIKE. Ironically, the next American revolution may well start on a football field in Alabama.
3
I repeat again, when I was teaching at universities, I was often asked by parents for college recommendations. My response was always, send them to a school with an unknown, or losing football & basketball teams, and generally north of the Mason Dixon.
5
College football players will not get paid. Why? Because we root for the laundry, regardless of the occupant of the laundry. Players need to occupy the laundry to get a shot a the brass ring of the NFL. The universities realize we root for the laundry and have no compunction to pay for an asset that they can get for free.
So if the situation arose where the athlete wanted to get paid and the universities didn't want to pay him, what is the athlete going to do? The universities could fill every football team with slightly less talented players who would play for "Dear Old State" for free and the stadiums would still be full and the TV money would still be there. The more talented kids would have nowhere else to turn as they are too young and under-developed to play in the NFL. In turn they'd all be forced to come back to the universities at no pay.
You may think that no one would watch this less talented version of college football. You'd be wrong as we already are watching an inferior version of football every time we tune in to a college game. Despite the fact that the college players are vastly inferior to NFL players, the ratings for college football are through the roof.
So if the situation arose where the athlete wanted to get paid and the universities didn't want to pay him, what is the athlete going to do? The universities could fill every football team with slightly less talented players who would play for "Dear Old State" for free and the stadiums would still be full and the TV money would still be there. The more talented kids would have nowhere else to turn as they are too young and under-developed to play in the NFL. In turn they'd all be forced to come back to the universities at no pay.
You may think that no one would watch this less talented version of college football. You'd be wrong as we already are watching an inferior version of football every time we tune in to a college game. Despite the fact that the college players are vastly inferior to NFL players, the ratings for college football are through the roof.
1
We like to preen and prattle on about what an exceptional nation we are. In reality we are exceptionally hypocritical. Sports is an industry in America that has no rival anywhere in the world, except maybe World Soccer. Yet we hold an illusion that the college student/athlete should be an idealist playing only for the love of the sport and the university. Hogwash!
The top tier of college football and basketball should allow programs where the athletes can learn the business of sports in all its myriad facets; coaching, training, PR, medicine, (Cardale Jones sounds like he could use some help so that he might be able to read and understand a contract.
Since college football and basketball are really just farm teams for the NFL and NBA, those institutions should be required to pony up some money for insurance and other necessities for these athletes.
We could also end the hypocrisy at big time colleges of recruiting 50-80 young men for their teams only to have the majority of them sit on the bench or not make the team. If those players are getting paid the teams will restrict their numbers to realistic goals.
Pay the coaches, sure; but pay the student athletes as well.
The top tier of college football and basketball should allow programs where the athletes can learn the business of sports in all its myriad facets; coaching, training, PR, medicine, (Cardale Jones sounds like he could use some help so that he might be able to read and understand a contract.
Since college football and basketball are really just farm teams for the NFL and NBA, those institutions should be required to pony up some money for insurance and other necessities for these athletes.
We could also end the hypocrisy at big time colleges of recruiting 50-80 young men for their teams only to have the majority of them sit on the bench or not make the team. If those players are getting paid the teams will restrict their numbers to realistic goals.
Pay the coaches, sure; but pay the student athletes as well.
3
At the very least, the colleges owe their athletes a real education. They should pay the athletes a stipend for their years of eligibility and the scholarship should not kick in until AFTER their playing career is over, so they can devote their full time to their college studies, like other students do while they are in college. And during their years on the team, they should be entitled to all the tutoring they want to prepare them for college level work once they are done playing.
I went to college in the 1970s and I used to eat breakfast sometimes with the basketball team's second-string point guard who had exactly zero chance of ever making the NBA, and he knew it. He wanted to major in accounting but the coach would not let him because studying for math and business classes might detract from his practice time. Even in the days before multibillion-dollar contracts, the university earned money from his efforts, and could have compensated him with the chance to earn an accounting degree instead of handing him a piece of paper in a "major" he did not choose himself.
I went to college in the 1970s and I used to eat breakfast sometimes with the basketball team's second-string point guard who had exactly zero chance of ever making the NBA, and he knew it. He wanted to major in accounting but the coach would not let him because studying for math and business classes might detract from his practice time. Even in the days before multibillion-dollar contracts, the university earned money from his efforts, and could have compensated him with the chance to earn an accounting degree instead of handing him a piece of paper in a "major" he did not choose himself.
3
Trying to sort the future of the big five college conferences need be no more laborious than watching Phil Knight and Nike influence Oregon football.
Knight, Nike's founder, reigns money, ideas, and, some feel, a remarkable control over the Oregon football program, notable for its successes, grand high tech football center and an array of uniforms, all bearing Nike's logo, that can be made to reflect moods and short term objectives Oregon football has on its mind.
Just as Nike's wide and aggressive marketing and advertising sells dreams, Knight, successful innovator he is, intuitively understands that the amount of money and vast audiences (markets) available worldwide to be exploited, big time college football will eventually have nothing to do with college and everything to do with professional sport.
Knight is an innovator in the truest spirit of the word, and his vision must be so clear that he may already have ired marketing and advertising firms to bring Oregon football to wider audiences, just as he did with sneakers.
Ray Kroc famously asked business students at UPenn "what do you think McDonald's does?" After answers like "hamburgers", "service", and other minutiae of business, he told them: McDonald's invests and holds"real estate". Just as Nike sells dreams, Knight knows that college football also has something to do with sellings dreams, and he may dream about being the first owner--maybe even the first Commissioner-- of professional college football.
Knight, Nike's founder, reigns money, ideas, and, some feel, a remarkable control over the Oregon football program, notable for its successes, grand high tech football center and an array of uniforms, all bearing Nike's logo, that can be made to reflect moods and short term objectives Oregon football has on its mind.
Just as Nike's wide and aggressive marketing and advertising sells dreams, Knight, successful innovator he is, intuitively understands that the amount of money and vast audiences (markets) available worldwide to be exploited, big time college football will eventually have nothing to do with college and everything to do with professional sport.
Knight is an innovator in the truest spirit of the word, and his vision must be so clear that he may already have ired marketing and advertising firms to bring Oregon football to wider audiences, just as he did with sneakers.
Ray Kroc famously asked business students at UPenn "what do you think McDonald's does?" After answers like "hamburgers", "service", and other minutiae of business, he told them: McDonald's invests and holds"real estate". Just as Nike sells dreams, Knight knows that college football also has something to do with sellings dreams, and he may dream about being the first owner--maybe even the first Commissioner-- of professional college football.
1
How much money is involved? If you take one-half of one percent of the money ESPN is paying each year for the four-team playoff, and assume a figure of 100 players per team (including walk-ons and injured), you could pay each of the 400 players in the tournament $7,604.
1
they're all barracudas - no offense to the various members of the genus sphyraena, marine predators who have no other options - the colleges who sell their birthright as centers of inquiry and the media-big biz gear-pro league complex profiteers who run the show are engaged in an enterprise that expolits kids and, were it not for distraction of a lottery that makes a few of them brand name products, would be seen as trafficking.
5
Last evening I watched a fight and a football game broke out. Some game. Enjoy the lifelong pain from your injuries, players.
2
Life's a mess, isn't it? The athletes certainly should share in the value they create. But should the universities be involved in this big-time entertainment at all? What does big-time football have to do with the university core mission after all? My suspicion is that the road these folks are going down is not long term sustainable.
But my major issue is a smaller one. My alma mater, like a lot of other schools, is charging every student about $2,000/year to support inter-scholastic athletics. Not intramurals, NCAA teams. Regardless of the student's ability to pay, $2000/year. Regardless of the student's interest in athletics $2,000/year. I find it obscene that my parents near minimum-wage income was used in part to subsidize the golf team flying to country clubs around the eastern U.S. We and a lot of other similarly situated families could have put that money to so much better use.
The involuntary requirement to support inter-collegiate athletics needs to go away.
But my major issue is a smaller one. My alma mater, like a lot of other schools, is charging every student about $2,000/year to support inter-scholastic athletics. Not intramurals, NCAA teams. Regardless of the student's ability to pay, $2000/year. Regardless of the student's interest in athletics $2,000/year. I find it obscene that my parents near minimum-wage income was used in part to subsidize the golf team flying to country clubs around the eastern U.S. We and a lot of other similarly situated families could have put that money to so much better use.
The involuntary requirement to support inter-collegiate athletics needs to go away.
15
Maybe it's time to finally admit the obvious: College Sports is an unnatural pairing, like College CEOs, or College Policemen/women. Why is it that sports professionals, in the prime of their playing career, have to go to college in order to practice their eventual (hopefully) profession? Why not go straight to the starting line from High School? The argument that most will fail and that they need a college education to fall back on, could be made for any number of other professions or jobs that people go into after High School, yet no one says your people should be 100% prevented from being mechanics or starting a business unless they go through 4 years of college first. Whatever happened to the freedom of choice, and to fail?
6
In the vast majority of cases - they can do precisely that: Baseball; Hockey; Golf; Tennis; Basketball (overseas for one year); Entrepreneurs.
Why is that you think that most do not choose that path?
Why is that you think that most do not choose that path?
"...universities are simply not built to run a multibillion-dollar entertainment industry..."
Dean Quincy Adams Wagstaff had a solution for that.
GROUCHO (Dean Quincy Adams Wagstaff ): Have we got a stadium?
FACULTY: Yes.
GROUCHO: Have we got a college?
FACULTY: Yes.
GROUCHO: Well, we can’t support both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college.
—From Horse Feathers, 1932, starring the Marx Brothers
Dean Wagstaff's advice may not have been followed literally, but it certainly has figuratively.
Dean Quincy Adams Wagstaff had a solution for that.
GROUCHO (Dean Quincy Adams Wagstaff ): Have we got a stadium?
FACULTY: Yes.
GROUCHO: Have we got a college?
FACULTY: Yes.
GROUCHO: Well, we can’t support both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college.
—From Horse Feathers, 1932, starring the Marx Brothers
Dean Wagstaff's advice may not have been followed literally, but it certainly has figuratively.
5
Joe - you dis the Coalition to Save College Sports and its goal is to get out the message that college athletes already have a good deal — without compensation.
While it may be true that for football and basketball stars at the Power Five schools, the value of their degrees is not always commensurate with their individual contributions to the financial success of their schools' sports programs, you conveniently don't mention that such success is also funding degrees for hundreds of student athletes in sports that are not otherwise viable for these schools. Who knows how many Ohio State swimmers and tennis players are also carried on the back of Ezekiel Elliott?
I applaud the Power Five conferences for at least attempting to balance obviously one-sided opinion pieces like yours.
While it may be true that for football and basketball stars at the Power Five schools, the value of their degrees is not always commensurate with their individual contributions to the financial success of their schools' sports programs, you conveniently don't mention that such success is also funding degrees for hundreds of student athletes in sports that are not otherwise viable for these schools. Who knows how many Ohio State swimmers and tennis players are also carried on the back of Ezekiel Elliott?
I applaud the Power Five conferences for at least attempting to balance obviously one-sided opinion pieces like yours.
Cardale Jone is brilliant, he understands, all too well, exactly the atmosphere he breathes. Finally, I can only hope, and I pray to whatever God might be listening, that in the fullness of time, the clueless adolescent who said that "we ain´t come to play SCHOOL" will come to realize that SCHOOL is not a game! Once again, we've got to admit, that college football lobby is so powerful, they could probably get the U.S. Congress to extend zero interest loans for college, but they're too busy lining their own pockets, sadly.
3
I am a Notre Dame graduate who was only marginally interested in football (I ran Varsity track, not on scholarship but for fun). When I graduated in 73 the tuition room and board was around $3,000, paid 1/3 scholarship, 1/3 summer earnings and 1/3 parents. Plus I worked in the dining halls, both ND & nearby St. Mary's College for beer money. Our dorms looked like army barracks and the football players roomed among the student body. Any middle class kid could go to ND and get a top- flight education and graduate debt free.
I can't fathom going to ND today at over $40,000 per year. Footbal, like everywhete else, has grown out of control. I am of the school that universities should return to their core mission of teachong and socializing. I would abolish college footbal or reduce it to a club sport and leave the field to the NFL where all the machinations of capitalism can run wild. The money saved should go to professors and perhaps practical phys ed for all students.
I can't fathom going to ND today at over $40,000 per year. Footbal, like everywhete else, has grown out of control. I am of the school that universities should return to their core mission of teachong and socializing. I would abolish college footbal or reduce it to a club sport and leave the field to the NFL where all the machinations of capitalism can run wild. The money saved should go to professors and perhaps practical phys ed for all students.
6
I also grew up in Cleveland's "rough" Glenville neighborhood, albeit 60 years ago. But that young man and his fellow players don't need a semi-pro status to play college football, they need a real college education. Increasingly this is less and less likely to happen as seasons extend through winter conditioning, spring practice and summer pre-season prep.
There is little time to take anything but the least demanding classes and no time to sample the full range of educational experiences that make up college life.
But neither should poor kids like Jones have to make under the table deals with agents or sell jackets and rings just to get money for pizza and a movie. Many students work on campus while in school. The College Work Study program is part of their financial aid package and usually limits a students to no more than 20 hour of work.
Let's do the same for athletic financial aid. Pay them the same rate as other students. I think it's around $7 or $8 dollars an hour for under grads and not only cap the pay at 20 hours a week, but cap all football activities to no more than 20 hours per week.
Maybe, just maybe we can put the genie back in the bottle and reconnect these kids to their real reason for being in college.
There is little time to take anything but the least demanding classes and no time to sample the full range of educational experiences that make up college life.
But neither should poor kids like Jones have to make under the table deals with agents or sell jackets and rings just to get money for pizza and a movie. Many students work on campus while in school. The College Work Study program is part of their financial aid package and usually limits a students to no more than 20 hour of work.
Let's do the same for athletic financial aid. Pay them the same rate as other students. I think it's around $7 or $8 dollars an hour for under grads and not only cap the pay at 20 hours a week, but cap all football activities to no more than 20 hours per week.
Maybe, just maybe we can put the genie back in the bottle and reconnect these kids to their real reason for being in college.
3
Here's why the cynicism is inappropriate, in 1 word: Capitalism. When everything is about greed-driven profit, why should anyone be surprised that it's "money above all else." Lord knows, it's the nature of the beast, its DNA. And one of the socio-genes in that long strand of information is a regulatory off-switch for empathy. Who cares if an individual cog in the system (aka, a human being) benefits or not? Irrelevant to the outcome, measured only in dollars/euros/pounds/rubles/yuan/yen. After all, as the song tells us: Money makes the world go round!
4
The real need for public higher education is not continued discourse on the hypocrisy of amateurism in athletics. That horse left the barn in 1852 when the first intercollegiate contest was initiated and sponsored by entrepreneurs to promote a resort and railroad line. Only true difference today is magnitude. The larger 21st Century issue is how public higher education can be sustainable in light of State Legislature's continued dis-investment in our public colleges and universities. Better to fight this battle than to wring hands over professional attributes of college athletics.
1
Yet a few years ago, Jones tweeted, “Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain’t come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS.”
While I too admire Jones' grit , I more admire his honesty. The entire NCAA "college sports industrial complex" is out of control. It exploits unpaid labor and pays obscenely bloated salaries to football and basketball coaches while posing as an institution of "higher learning".
As an educator , now professor of nearly forty years, I am disgusted by the recent hiring of Harbaugh at U of Michigan for some 35 MILLION dollars over 7 years. Meanwhile the faculty, which actually delivers the curriculum to students and conducts ground breaking research, not to mention the ever growing ranks of subsistence level adjuncts, lives on the equivalent of what may be found as "couch cushion change" in Harboughs' posh new digs.
Let's also remember that nary a penny of the money generated by this "college-athlete" Ponzi scheme purchases so much as a book for the U of Michigan library.
Attention parents and students taking out college loans: is THIS what you intended to pay for?
While I too admire Jones' grit , I more admire his honesty. The entire NCAA "college sports industrial complex" is out of control. It exploits unpaid labor and pays obscenely bloated salaries to football and basketball coaches while posing as an institution of "higher learning".
As an educator , now professor of nearly forty years, I am disgusted by the recent hiring of Harbaugh at U of Michigan for some 35 MILLION dollars over 7 years. Meanwhile the faculty, which actually delivers the curriculum to students and conducts ground breaking research, not to mention the ever growing ranks of subsistence level adjuncts, lives on the equivalent of what may be found as "couch cushion change" in Harboughs' posh new digs.
Let's also remember that nary a penny of the money generated by this "college-athlete" Ponzi scheme purchases so much as a book for the U of Michigan library.
Attention parents and students taking out college loans: is THIS what you intended to pay for?
15
I'm not clear how Harbaugh salary diminishes U of M education or calls into question what parents are paying for. Faculty salaries, library books, etc have little to do with athletic industry. Better to take the educational quality battle to State Legislature's and their ongoing trend of dis-investing in higher education. I wish Joe Nocera and other Times columnists would take on this issue. Higher Ed needs a venue to inform the public about how the mechanics of funding work.
2
Indeed--send your kids to Swarthmore, Grinnell, St Olaf, MIT, Caltech, or the local community college, where there is NO (pro) football, baseball or basketball. Someday your kids will thank you.
9
Let's have a pity party for the poor faculty members who ride the tenure gravy train for most of their "careers". During the Great Recession, how many tenured faculty were displaced because their positions were not economically feasible? Even the "dead wood", who produce no research, let alone "ground breaking", are assured lifetime employment.
They don't call it the Ivory Tower for nothing.
They don't call it the Ivory Tower for nothing.
My favorite sports iconoclast, Keith Olberman, said it bet on his show yesterday" "Welcome to the first ever professional college football championship."
Moreover, he expressed his admiration for Cardale Jones's comment about why they even have to take classes in school.
"Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS," he tweeted.
Amen and Amen!
Moreover, he expressed his admiration for Cardale Jones's comment about why they even have to take classes in school.
"Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS," he tweeted.
Amen and Amen!
A reader recently pointed out in a letter to The Times that college sports are effectively a tax-payer funded farm system for the NFL and NBA, since many of the top sports schools are public institutions. I think that idea bears repeating.
1
I don't get this "money sharing" thing. My straight A, "top of his class son", got no scholarship when accepted to a top flight engineering school - he's racking up student debt - hopefully not six figures. Meanwhile, these "student athletes" are being handed a free education and in many instances they pass on taking advantage of it.
I would say that a six figure free education is a pretty valuable thing. If they choose to consider it unimportant and decide to major in "Recreational Sciences" just to maintain their GPA that's their choice.
My son is going to be a major contributor to society with an Electrical Engineering degree from a top school. They will have chose to pass on a free 4-yr. education which, realistic, they never cared about or had time for anyway. Explain how society is served by throwing money at them on top of the education. Or, is it just our distaste for other people getting rich with their free labor which was their choice.
I would say that a six figure free education is a pretty valuable thing. If they choose to consider it unimportant and decide to major in "Recreational Sciences" just to maintain their GPA that's their choice.
My son is going to be a major contributor to society with an Electrical Engineering degree from a top school. They will have chose to pass on a free 4-yr. education which, realistic, they never cared about or had time for anyway. Explain how society is served by throwing money at them on top of the education. Or, is it just our distaste for other people getting rich with their free labor which was their choice.
7
I suggest you pound on your State Legislature for driving up tuition costs through their dis-investment of public higher ed, and leave student-athletes out of it. Let's encourage Joe N and other NYT columnists to focus on the real 21st century higher ed crisis of sustainable state support and drop the frivolity of hypocrisy in college athletics.
2
All non-profit organization executives work at making their organizations bigger to justify paying their executives higher salaries.
1
This is a major problem with NGO's. Everytime a black $60,000 SUV pases our bus chugging up the coffee coveted mountains of El Salvador, everyone mutters "ONG" (Spanish acronym) but I've yet to see much help from these people here on the ground. One of the biggest scama in modern America. I read somewhere that there are 10,000 NGO's in Haiti, a country of some 4 million people. You do the math- someone is making out and it's not the Haitians who remain the poorest in the westetn hemisphere. And the taxpayers pay the bill for these tax exempt orgs. NCAA & Bowls, same- 6 figure clowns in loud sport coats livin' large.
1
The biggest loss, in my opinion, is to the non-athlete students. First, as a body they lose access to education, because some of their places are taken by student-athletes who can't take full advantage of the share of a educational resources they are allocated. Second, they experience an overall reduction in the quality of education, because the classes they are in are burdened with student-athletes who do not have the time or energy (or educational background, frequently) to fully engage with the course material. A precept of 10 students where two of them spend three hours at practice every day is basically a precept of 8 students. Third, their social lives are strangely distorted by the presence of the large, powerful cliques that varsity teams form, which seems to encourage binge-drinking. I suspect that all of these effects are observable to some extent at every college in the country that takes varsity sports seriously, including Ivy League schools.
If you believe that higher education contributes something to society in general, then the lowering of the quality of that education is a loss to society as well. Is it worth it? Who's to say? The solution can only be implemented school-by-school, I think, and it is for sufficient numbers of students and alumni to perceive this as a problem to then convince their school to change its policies. As schools opt out of this ludicrous system, non-academic farm teams should become the alternative for young athletes.
If you believe that higher education contributes something to society in general, then the lowering of the quality of that education is a loss to society as well. Is it worth it? Who's to say? The solution can only be implemented school-by-school, I think, and it is for sufficient numbers of students and alumni to perceive this as a problem to then convince their school to change its policies. As schools opt out of this ludicrous system, non-academic farm teams should become the alternative for young athletes.
5
If students are losing access to higher ed and incurring greater debt, the fault lies with State Legislatures dis-investing in public colleges and universities, and not at the feet of student-athletes. Fight the battle that needs fighting: hold Legislators accountable, and forget the student-athlete smokescreen.
1
I couldn't care less about anything you complain of. FYI, my son and I are Duck fans and choose 1 game a year to attend. It's one of the highest high points we have together ever year. My son knows all the stats -- he's kind of borderline Asperger's -- and he keeps me up on what I need to know to understand the game as well as he does. This year we chose to go to the Michigan State game, and that was a big winner.
When the Ducks made it to the championship, I figured this opportunity might not come by again. The ticket prices were outrageous, and that's my money complaint. Stubhub most have profited like ESPN on this one, I flew Jason in from San Jose, and I flew the redeye from Phoenix. Both flights were full of Duck fans and there were airborne cheers among the passengers. At the game, Jason introduced me to some kind of spiked cider drink which was really good. The game didn't go our way but the stadium was fit for a championship, and our seats were not too bad. Jason and I exchanged around 10 high fives during the high points for the Ducks. We discussed our personal belief systems We left saddened but not defeated. The airport the next morning was all red and green. I took the hug he begrudgingly gives me as a condition of my taking him to these games. He walked into the terminal and I cried. I always do.
When the Ducks made it to the championship, I figured this opportunity might not come by again. The ticket prices were outrageous, and that's my money complaint. Stubhub most have profited like ESPN on this one, I flew Jason in from San Jose, and I flew the redeye from Phoenix. Both flights were full of Duck fans and there were airborne cheers among the passengers. At the game, Jason introduced me to some kind of spiked cider drink which was really good. The game didn't go our way but the stadium was fit for a championship, and our seats were not too bad. Jason and I exchanged around 10 high fives during the high points for the Ducks. We discussed our personal belief systems We left saddened but not defeated. The airport the next morning was all red and green. I took the hug he begrudgingly gives me as a condition of my taking him to these games. He walked into the terminal and I cried. I always do.
2
This succinctly summarizes my relationship with my own father, who played at Nebraska. Every year we take an autumnal pilgrimage to Lincoln because it is about the only thing either of us is willing to share with the other.
There are real and serious problems with the current state of big-time college athletics, but people who lambaste "the system" and call for its abrogation clearly do not understand what these teams and traditions mean to families and communities around the country.
College athletics, especially football, need to find ways to reform in order to remain culturally relevant. For the sake of my relationship with my father I hope hey can.
There are real and serious problems with the current state of big-time college athletics, but people who lambaste "the system" and call for its abrogation clearly do not understand what these teams and traditions mean to families and communities around the country.
College athletics, especially football, need to find ways to reform in order to remain culturally relevant. For the sake of my relationship with my father I hope hey can.
I don't care for college football (ND 73) but I liked your story!
3
College Athletics should serve education, too. If not, maybe some of these stars stars should go back to HBCUs.
I didn't realize that psychic income could be so valuable. Why don't more coaches and other high paid individuals in this system give up their real income for psychic income? After all they seem to think it is good for the players. Why isn't it good enough for them?
13
It's not hard to see that bone-headed discrimination is alive and well in one form or another in essentially all societies, including in the sport of college football - where it happens to be the student-athletes that are legally discriminated against.
1
Entertaining article, but the tweet was way out of context. Here is what Cardale said more recently: "… my No. 1 priority is to graduate from the Ohio State University and walking away with something that nobody can take away from me. Football definitely has a timetable on it, but my degree is hands down one of the most important things to me."
I object to the level of cynicism being displayed. I know there are many true student-athletes playing college football. I was a walk-on football player in the Big Ten with a full ride academic scholarship. My final semester cost 20K in loans as my academic scholarship was only 4 years, but staying allowed another chance to get pulverized by future NFL players. I stayed because I loved my team. What happened after that "wasted" tuition money? We won the Big Ten, I got to play in a Big Ten game and I graduated with honors. My coaches wrote letters of recommendation alongside my professors. I was accepted to Harvard Medical School.
We had early workouts followed by final exams and I studied for my MCAT while participating in spring football… and we didn’t get paid a cent. Many of us worked part-time jobs to pay summer rent while in town to workout as a team. You know what? We chose to do it and it was worth it. This is not to say that players shouldn't receive additional benefits including post-college healthcare. I wanted to speak to the fact that something honorable and meaningful can still be found in this game.
Go Hawkeyes
I object to the level of cynicism being displayed. I know there are many true student-athletes playing college football. I was a walk-on football player in the Big Ten with a full ride academic scholarship. My final semester cost 20K in loans as my academic scholarship was only 4 years, but staying allowed another chance to get pulverized by future NFL players. I stayed because I loved my team. What happened after that "wasted" tuition money? We won the Big Ten, I got to play in a Big Ten game and I graduated with honors. My coaches wrote letters of recommendation alongside my professors. I was accepted to Harvard Medical School.
We had early workouts followed by final exams and I studied for my MCAT while participating in spring football… and we didn’t get paid a cent. Many of us worked part-time jobs to pay summer rent while in town to workout as a team. You know what? We chose to do it and it was worth it. This is not to say that players shouldn't receive additional benefits including post-college healthcare. I wanted to speak to the fact that something honorable and meaningful can still be found in this game.
Go Hawkeyes
4
College football long ago outgrew colleges. The "circle that can't be squared" indeed. Take away the college brand on the team, though, and most of the glamor goes away as well.
I have not yet heard how the football players who bring in the money can be paid, and how much and for what position, and then not pay the gymnists, baseball and softball players etc.
I have not yet heard how the football players who bring in the money can be paid, and how much and for what position, and then not pay the gymnists, baseball and softball players etc.
"Yet a few years ago, Jones tweeted, “Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain’t come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS.”
Yes, he amde the comment a few years ago and echoed a sentiment many other young students express and not just football players. Example: Why should I have to study science when I am going into the arts?
Young adults often enter college with a very limited or utilitarian view of their academic study that broadens over their college experience ... as it is intended to do by design.
Yes, he amde the comment a few years ago and echoed a sentiment many other young students express and not just football players. Example: Why should I have to study science when I am going into the arts?
Young adults often enter college with a very limited or utilitarian view of their academic study that broadens over their college experience ... as it is intended to do by design.
4
The whole college football thing as a billion dollar game for EPSN and company depends on our swallowing a bunch of hypocrisies:
The myth that boosting football at a state university boosts alumni interest and that this raises dollars to improve academic programs equal to or greater than the sum of dollars expended on sports
The myth that student athletes are actually students of the university engaged in academic life and on track to graduate
The myth that football provides a way up for disenfranchised minorities and poor white folk that a university education would not otherwise afford them
The myth that a group of recruited players is actually our team when a glance at the roster of roughly one hundred players shows that only a tiny minority of the them are from the state in question
The myth that a scholarship that doesn't fund your total expenses at college is compensation enough for risking your health and your academic future, in fact, your very future on the gamble that you'll make it to the NFL intact
In short the myth that football is the tide that raises all boats when it's really only a sea of money that floats yachts.
When former Oregon football coach Mike Bellotti left here a few years back he was able to cash out a walloping amount of money (allegedly $41,000 a month) from Oregon's Public Employees Retirement System. He's the highest paid recipient of our beleaguered system and will be until the day he drops dead. How does that float your boat?
The myth that boosting football at a state university boosts alumni interest and that this raises dollars to improve academic programs equal to or greater than the sum of dollars expended on sports
The myth that student athletes are actually students of the university engaged in academic life and on track to graduate
The myth that football provides a way up for disenfranchised minorities and poor white folk that a university education would not otherwise afford them
The myth that a group of recruited players is actually our team when a glance at the roster of roughly one hundred players shows that only a tiny minority of the them are from the state in question
The myth that a scholarship that doesn't fund your total expenses at college is compensation enough for risking your health and your academic future, in fact, your very future on the gamble that you'll make it to the NFL intact
In short the myth that football is the tide that raises all boats when it's really only a sea of money that floats yachts.
When former Oregon football coach Mike Bellotti left here a few years back he was able to cash out a walloping amount of money (allegedly $41,000 a month) from Oregon's Public Employees Retirement System. He's the highest paid recipient of our beleaguered system and will be until the day he drops dead. How does that float your boat?
7
Of course, the New York Times could decide not to send its beat reporters and columnists to "big money" college games. Or print anything besides the agate box. And yet, they do. The sycophants in the editor's suite are just as responsible for this as anyone else.
6
It's disappointing that so many smart people at big universities have let themselves become the AAA farm teams of mega-filthy rich NFL owners. Where is the inspired university president who begins a public dialogue aimed at forcing the NFL baronial class to create a minor league for players who have no desire to attend college? I am a season ticket holder at a Big Ten university, and I would be happy to see the aspiring young pros leave school, join an NFL minor league and get paid. I would be content to support my university team without this select group of elites...I don't care at all if the quality of the game took a few steps back. This farce has got to end, and I fear it won't end well, especially if the federal gov gets involved. I liked college football just fine the way it was fifty years ago: many or most of the players earned degrees, a few went to the pros, and we kidded each other about their seriousness in the classroom. A lot less money was involved, the quality of play was very high, the "game day" experience was less choreographed, but still plenty of fun. Believe me, you will still like the game, but your conscience will be clear.
8
The big loser last night may well be the NCAA as the power conferences showed they did not need that organization to put together a tournament that provided a financial windfall. If they do the same in basketball, the NCAA may as well close up shop. Its tournament would eventually become as relevant as the NIT. So look for the NCAA to continue its effort to placate the big conferences -- probably by handing them more money and autonomy -- so it can keep its cash cow of a basketball tourney alive.
3
"...universities are simply not built to run a multibillion-dollar entertainment industry..."
Running an "...entertainment industry..." may not have been their initial business, but many have done quite well at it, thank you.
Many colleges have rebuilt themselves to be good in whatever business that happens to come their way.
Some are good in running a hedge fund.
Most are excellent at giving their "customers" (once quaintly called "students") what they "want", while fooling them, their parents, and the rest of us that they are getting what they "need" (an education).
Football is just one glaring example that far too many colleges would sell their "souls" to become businesses. What could be better than basking in the glory and prestige of being a "great educational institution", while making gobs of money.
Running an "...entertainment industry..." may not have been their initial business, but many have done quite well at it, thank you.
Many colleges have rebuilt themselves to be good in whatever business that happens to come their way.
Some are good in running a hedge fund.
Most are excellent at giving their "customers" (once quaintly called "students") what they "want", while fooling them, their parents, and the rest of us that they are getting what they "need" (an education).
Football is just one glaring example that far too many colleges would sell their "souls" to become businesses. What could be better than basking in the glory and prestige of being a "great educational institution", while making gobs of money.
9
I am a great fan of the University of Michigan - for its academics, and because they gave me a great fellowship that allowed me to get a PhD there. I don't follow its sports.
5
Joe Nocera deserves a Pulitzer Prize for the various articles he has written regarding college athletic programs and the NCAA. It is galling to see so much money floating around college football like confetti after the Bowl Championship with kids like Cardale Jones not getting any share of a very big pie. For those who believe he’s getting a “free” education, just look in the NYTIMES archive and let Mr. Nocera enlighten you how when kids like Jones get injured, they’re back on that street corner in Cincinnati in a heartbeat with what to show for it?
If one examines college sports programs and even minor league baseball, the system reflects in many ways the way our country has been managed for almost 40 years. Those at the top share in most of the riches, while the workers are treated as so much expendable cattle.
If one examines college sports programs and even minor league baseball, the system reflects in many ways the way our country has been managed for almost 40 years. Those at the top share in most of the riches, while the workers are treated as so much expendable cattle.
8
If the players have to be amateurs, the coaches should have to be amateurs.
15
But coaches asserted their rights in a lawsuit vs the NCAA and so are paid according to market condition. (This is what happened whenever anybody with property rights to their own labor have fought with the NCAA.) The players are allowed to play only if they effectively sign away their rights to the NCAA cartel. They are trying to get them back; it will be a struggle because nobody wants to give up their gold. (See Taylor Branch's article from THE ATLANTIC for more.)
So here we go again, broadcasting the idle thoughts of a college sophomore to make a point: hyperbole sells. One would think a professional journalist would find more meaningful opportunities to ask whether the young man has grown since making such a throwaway comment, and maybe how that came to be. Indeed, the only reason he was stating the game was because he was still in good standing at the Ohio State University. And lo, maybe someday he will be a coach himself, or maybe a teacher, or maybe an administrator, or maybe a parole officer or maybe or maybe or maybe. Maybe even a pro football player. In short, maybe some day he will prove to be "exactly the kind" of person he hoped to be. Maybe even a sports columnist on a big city paper. A professional, that is, not a self serving scold.
2
Do you have any idea of how little it takes to be in good standing at a public university? I teach at one and there is no shortage of Mickey Mouse courses one can take to get a C average.
1
Just like the kids working in the school cafeteria, college athletes should each receive minimum wage for each hour they commit to their sport. They won't get rich; but, they will have enough to live upon.
Please Do Not confuse high profile Football and Basketball with all college athletics. There are 140,000 D1 college athletes; 450,000 if you include all divisions. Of those maybe 6,000 are D1 major college Football players, and of those maybe 200 will play in the NFL. The other 134,000 college atheltes are working hard for a marginal schorlarship, at the sport they love. They will graduate and go on to a career not in sports,, with the experience and life lessons they get from sports. Football and to some degree baskettball provide the money to support all the other "non revenue" sports. If it weren't for football there wouldn't be track, swimming, wrestling, or crew.
Wrestling dad.
Wrestling dad.
2
Dr. Bob--I am a former Division I wrestling coach and while I respect your opinion and while you make some good points, lets not act like the other sports are pristine and or they don't need reform. Also--I see you are in East lansing, and saying football and basketball fund the other sports is mostly true at schools like MSU, and maybe a dozen others at best. In almost every other case football does not even support itself. Case in point the Mid American Conference. Football and other sports are supported by huge institutional subsidies and exponentially growing student fees on top of tuition. Other sports can exist if the schools want them to, but I argue that many sports like wrestling exist in spite of football. Schools make a choice what they want to fund and funding a forever money losing football program is not paying for other sports, it is causing them to be dropped. We continue to increase salaries, build facilities and take on other expenses to chase a holy grail that 90% of the schools will never get. It is not Title IX either because we do not need to continue to increase spending in football but that is where the inequities are happening. It is the arms race where universities have prioritized football and basketball above all else. It sounds nice to say wrestling exists because of football funding, but the fact is wrestling and other sports at the college level are actually dying because of football and it is only going to get worse.
5
My point is not to condem ALL College athletics because of the 2-5 % who are just there for pre pro sports and remember the other 95% who are there for an education and love their sport. They are true student athletes, students first.
Oh, for some straight talk from some politician, CEO, board president, anyone, please, just speak the truth. So very tired of public figures, who know the truth---do these NCAA spokespersons really believe that they are supervising student athletes anymore. The public won't care, they have moved on---they know what is happening and could care less---just keep the beer coming.
3
The first time there was a TV time-out during a sporting event, sports became corrupted. It has been a constant progression since then; the present college sports are just the latest symptom of the fact that everybody and everything in the US is for sale.
9
So, Tom, I take it that you work for free.
1
Perhaps Congress should declare college sports a for-profit activity and tax revenues at the same rate it taxes other for-profit businesses.
8
Graduate students at large universities like Ohio State often teach hundred-person undergrad lecture classes. Each undergrad's tuition amounts to a few hundred dollars per credit. So there might be $150-200,000 worth of tuition money in that lecture hall each semester, maybe 5-10% of which goes to the grad student teaching it, in the form of free tuition and a barely living-wage stipend. Meanwhile, the grad student is taking a full course load and/or working on a dissertation, making for as long of hours as any athlete.
And I can assure you, they don't have any equivalent of palatial locker rooms, full-time tutors to handhold them, or the adoration of thousands of screaming fans. Instead they get windowless offices and the occasional call from a football coach or counselor *ordering* them to change a player's failing grade (yes, true story).
But that's the deal they signed up for, in the hopes of seeing more success down the road. College athletes do the same, so I really can't get worked up about it.
At the end of the day, Cardale Jones has it right: stop forcing players in this NFL farm system to pretend to be students, and stop diluting the academic quality of universities. Run football as a profitable business (owned by universities, if you must) with fairly paid non-student employees.
And I can assure you, they don't have any equivalent of palatial locker rooms, full-time tutors to handhold them, or the adoration of thousands of screaming fans. Instead they get windowless offices and the occasional call from a football coach or counselor *ordering* them to change a player's failing grade (yes, true story).
But that's the deal they signed up for, in the hopes of seeing more success down the road. College athletes do the same, so I really can't get worked up about it.
At the end of the day, Cardale Jones has it right: stop forcing players in this NFL farm system to pretend to be students, and stop diluting the academic quality of universities. Run football as a profitable business (owned by universities, if you must) with fairly paid non-student employees.
74
Stop this nonsense of being the farm system for the NFL and NBA. Let them do their own work, just like MLB and the NHL.
2
Ahem...more like 1% of that class's 200K tuition goes to the grad student "professor," and at a generous university, 2% to an "adjunct professor" with a Ph.D. (But unlike the Adjunct Profs, at least the grad students can usually get a student-discount on football tickets.)
When asked after the game last night about leaving OSU for the NFL: "It's up in the air, sort of, because my No. 1 priority is graduating from Ohio State University and walking away with something that no one can take away from me," Cardale Jones said.
I would hate to be judged by some of the stupid things that I said when I was 17 or 18 years old. I'm glad that twitter wasn't around back then. Jones came from a very rough upbringing that probably didn't value higher education like others. What they did value is the opportunity for their son to play for a school that would potentially showcase his skills for the next level (and earn millions of dollars). It seems as if Jones has had a change of opinion about education and still kept his dream of playing at the highest level in his profession.
I would hate to be judged by some of the stupid things that I said when I was 17 or 18 years old. I'm glad that twitter wasn't around back then. Jones came from a very rough upbringing that probably didn't value higher education like others. What they did value is the opportunity for their son to play for a school that would potentially showcase his skills for the next level (and earn millions of dollars). It seems as if Jones has had a change of opinion about education and still kept his dream of playing at the highest level in his profession.
2
An alternative is to build sports around communities and reduce the emphasis in the universities. Columbus Ohio could have its Buckeyes and other cities could have their teams (the Vikings in Minneapolis). Then have a series of leagues with the best 12 teams in the top league. Relegate the bottom three teams from the top league and promote the best three teams in lower leagues each year. Then every community can participate if they want to, players are paid according to their skill level, players do not have to be "students", and teams sort themselves by level of play. That way the Buckeyes, Beavers, Vikings etc can all be treated as they really are - professional teams. Another plus is that poor "professional" teams will have the chance to celebrate when their team is supported. Let the Buckeyes show they are the best by competing with the best - what we now call professional teams.
2
NYT please let we Ohioans enjoy the day. There will be plenty of time in the days ahead to make the case that college football has been corrupted. I think I could say it better than you all. But that's for another day. In the meantime, let us have our happiness.
Let "WE" Ohioans. Maybe less football and more education is in order!
2
"One of the reasons I advocate paying football and men’s basketball players is that it would at least ensure that they got something for their efforts."
I am sure you have a rationale for this, Mr. Nocera, but how can you just pay for men's contributions in just these two sports? What about the women? What about the contributions from the soccer players, not the money made, but the contributions, the hard work, the addition to school culture?
If you are going to pay athletes on top of a scholarship, pay all athletes, not just the men in football and basketball. The social dynamic to the school culture would be toxic. I'll bet other sports would protest--certainly the women basketball players would.
I have no problem paying athletes more than the scholarship, but don't pay based on money earned by the most prolific--pay them all for time spent away from their studies, time spent working hard to increase the school spirit and sense of community on campus. Maybe put a lump sum in a well written trust with available once they graduate--and it is paid out smartly, slowly, with conditions.
I am sure you have a rationale for this, Mr. Nocera, but how can you just pay for men's contributions in just these two sports? What about the women? What about the contributions from the soccer players, not the money made, but the contributions, the hard work, the addition to school culture?
If you are going to pay athletes on top of a scholarship, pay all athletes, not just the men in football and basketball. The social dynamic to the school culture would be toxic. I'll bet other sports would protest--certainly the women basketball players would.
I have no problem paying athletes more than the scholarship, but don't pay based on money earned by the most prolific--pay them all for time spent away from their studies, time spent working hard to increase the school spirit and sense of community on campus. Maybe put a lump sum in a well written trust with available once they graduate--and it is paid out smartly, slowly, with conditions.
2
That's ridiculous. The point he's making is how the money is the root of problem. Unless the women or soccer teams start earning the same millions you sound illogical. Did you even understand the point Mr. Nocera is making??
1
steve O., I understand the point that he is making. It's pretty clear. My point was that you pay for the hours worked, not the money made. And all athletes put in those hours. I am sure it wouldn't sound ridiculous to the soccer player or the women's basketball player or the swimmer.
There is a whole infrastructure set up over the decades that has fed into these sports--men's football and basketball-- making the most money, it's not just the athletes or the sport, but an intricate culture that has grown with so many parts of our economy and history and TV. The profiteers in college sports have that infrastructure to thank.
There is a whole infrastructure set up over the decades that has fed into these sports--men's football and basketball-- making the most money, it's not just the athletes or the sport, but an intricate culture that has grown with so many parts of our economy and history and TV. The profiteers in college sports have that infrastructure to thank.
4
Simple solution: Every college/university that chooses to pay for a college football team is no longer eligible for federal funds of any kind.
Most schools will drop the sport and those that continue it will be forced to use the money made from college football to replace the lost federal funds rather than pay coaches millions of dollars. Our tax dollars will not longer be paying for men to play college football. Yes other sports will probably fall by the wayside but so what? Isn't a college eduction supposed to be about educating? The NFL would be forced to adopt a farm team system because it would lose a ton of recruits. Tax funds previously allocated to football-playing schools can be used to pay for (1) President Obama's community college proposal and (2) programs at non-football playing schools.
Most schools will drop the sport and those that continue it will be forced to use the money made from college football to replace the lost federal funds rather than pay coaches millions of dollars. Our tax dollars will not longer be paying for men to play college football. Yes other sports will probably fall by the wayside but so what? Isn't a college eduction supposed to be about educating? The NFL would be forced to adopt a farm team system because it would lose a ton of recruits. Tax funds previously allocated to football-playing schools can be used to pay for (1) President Obama's community college proposal and (2) programs at non-football playing schools.
13
@Kristine: That's 1 approach, that doesn't take into account the fact that federal and state funding of colleges has been steadily dwindling, leading to the out of state cost of attendance at the University of Michigan topping $40K/year.
How about another approach? Back in the 70s, I attended Cornell when they were winning two consecutive National Championships in Men's Lacrosse. At the time, no student could participate in athletics unless a fully matriculated, full-time student, taking a minimum of 12 credits per semester. Fast forward, and I heard Mark Sanchez, when he was at USC, saying that in his final fall semester there, the only course he was taking for credit during the football season was "Ballroom Dancing."
Here's my idea: All athletes *must* be full time, fully matriculated students taking at least a minimum full time credit load. And beyond that, they must be taking classes that are requiring the students to *make progress toward a degree.* No Ballroom Dancing for Sanchez, nor, as Joe Namath famously took at Alabama in the 60s, "basket weaving." Also enforce this by *requiring* the schools to monitor progress and to audit "independent study classes" to avoid the abuses in those found and reported in the Times by Pete Thamel to be rampant at Auburn, for example. If, and only if, the graduation rate of football and (men's) basketball players matches that of the overall student population would a school be eligible for the NCAA playoffs in football or basketball.
How about another approach? Back in the 70s, I attended Cornell when they were winning two consecutive National Championships in Men's Lacrosse. At the time, no student could participate in athletics unless a fully matriculated, full-time student, taking a minimum of 12 credits per semester. Fast forward, and I heard Mark Sanchez, when he was at USC, saying that in his final fall semester there, the only course he was taking for credit during the football season was "Ballroom Dancing."
Here's my idea: All athletes *must* be full time, fully matriculated students taking at least a minimum full time credit load. And beyond that, they must be taking classes that are requiring the students to *make progress toward a degree.* No Ballroom Dancing for Sanchez, nor, as Joe Namath famously took at Alabama in the 60s, "basket weaving." Also enforce this by *requiring* the schools to monitor progress and to audit "independent study classes" to avoid the abuses in those found and reported in the Times by Pete Thamel to be rampant at Auburn, for example. If, and only if, the graduation rate of football and (men's) basketball players matches that of the overall student population would a school be eligible for the NCAA playoffs in football or basketball.
4
Interesting idea, but too complex in my humble opinion and it still doesn't get to the heart of the problem: our tax dollars are going to support a minor football league for the benefit of NFL team owners. Read David Brooks' column today for further insight into what is so seriously wrong with this taxpayer-supported setup.
@Kristine: I don't think it's all that complex And independent auditor in, say the US Department of Education, monitors the gradation rate (six years) of every *scholarship* athlete. Those schools whose football and men's basketball squads fall below the school's reported overall six year graduation rates are disqualified from ANY *post-season* play. No reason it can't apply to ALL intercollegiate sports.
I DO agree that this will never happen, a the current NCAA set up is irredeemably corrupt.
I DO agree that this will never happen, a the current NCAA set up is irredeemably corrupt.
It has always been about money. In the past, the pointless bowl system didn't decide anything but generated a lot of money. At least this rudimentary start to a playoff system has a point. Championships are decided on the field not by a computer. Cardale Jones needs an attitude adjustment or just needs to be shown the door. That would seem to be the job of the coach.
1
Elsewhere in today's Times, we learn this from Marcus Mariota, the Oregon quarterback:'“I mean, it hurts,” he said. “You put so much work, you put so much effort into the year, and it’s tough. It’s tough to go out with a loss.” It's tough to go out with a loss. But look at how this tournament is designed: three of the top four programs in the country "go out with a loss." The basketball championship has the same format: 64 (actually it's up to 66 or 68 by now; call it 66) now enter the tournament. And of 66, 65 "go out with a loss." Awful way to organize "amateur" sports.
Easy solution: make ESPN and other moochers pay heavily into a higher education scholarship fund for needy academically able students; and to support the money-losing sports like lacrosse and hockey.
3
I don't know that all lacrosse and hockey programs lose money. On the other hand, it would be hard to imagine a swimming and diving or field hockey program NOT losing money, but your point is well taken. ESPN pays pretty good money to broadcast the NCAA playoffs in lacrosse and hockey. Swimming and field hockey not so much...
1
Cardale Jones would be the first to admit that as a freshman he had "attitude" regarding the relationship of football and his college education. Just as any parent would hope his/her immature college freshman will mature during his collegiate career, Jones did. The actions of his coaches made it clear to him that such an attitude was not one they would tolerate. Perhaps it was some of that; the maturation that does occur as one ages; and the example of those around him that led him to see that the opportunity to achieve both athletically and academically was a gift that he should not squander. In listening to his comments after the game, one could not help but be impressed by his articulateness and willingness to accept responsibility for the interceptions as well as his generosity toward his teammates and the unwillingness to trumpet his own remarkable story. He demonstrated a maturity that few young people, given his position, would likely exhibit. Urban Meyer and the coaching staff at OSU deserve much credit but Cardale Jones AND his teammates demonstrated that young men who come with issues can be guided with remarkable results.
8
I'm sorry, but it's hard for me to find any sympathy for the players. College ball is the gateway to the pros. Those who have the talent will undoubtly make it, and their pay in the pros will be commensurate with their talent (supposedly). Those who fall short have the benefit of a free college education, a perk thousands of needy and deserving "student-academics" would cherish. If they failed to use that benefit to their best advantage, shame on them. Let the money flow. It's things like the $100 million football program that enable the school to have fencing teams, golf teams, and tennis teams and their scholarships.
20
Ever heard of "football classes"? I'm not sure that many of the young men who go to college primarily in order to play football or basketball get much of an education. And most college players don't go on to play pro ball.
Sorry--your job is just a gateway to management so we won't pay you either---we'll just ignore the fact that you probably never will make it to management.
And while it is true that Football pays for fencing and other minor sports, how about we not pay you and use the money to subsidize some other part of your company.
Sorry, it is the american way..if you create value you should get some of it in return.
And while it is true that Football pays for fencing and other minor sports, how about we not pay you and use the money to subsidize some other part of your company.
Sorry, it is the american way..if you create value you should get some of it in return.
In very few instances do college athletic programs pay for themselves.
"Only seven other athletics programs at public universities broke even or had net operating income on athletics each year from 2005-2009, according to data provided by USA Today to the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics (for which I consult). The others were Louisiana State University, The Pennsylvania State University, and the universities of Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas at Austin."
http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow...
"Only seven other athletics programs at public universities broke even or had net operating income on athletics each year from 2005-2009, according to data provided by USA Today to the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics (for which I consult). The others were Louisiana State University, The Pennsylvania State University, and the universities of Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas at Austin."
http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow...
3
Regrettably, "big time" college sports has many of the same qualities as indentured servitude. Except the kids are used up in 4 year increments, then tossed on life's scrap heap.
If you want detail about this business read The System by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian.
Here are some obvious sports questions that Joe Nocera and others have asked about our society.
1. Why do we fund institutions of higher education where the coaches are the highest paid employees on the state payroll, to say nothing of the university?
2. Why do we allow "Coach" to get all the money, while the kids get paid nothing? Especially since the kids are the ones putting the fannies in the seats and generating the interest that results in the mind boggling TV contracts.
3. Why does the NFL have tax exempt status?
If the country was being stomach churningly honest, it would admit that we love our sports entertainers, who are the equivalent of athletic court jesters. We don't care what happens to them, or how, who, and why they are abused.
It is simply immoral at the highest level, and nothing short of disgusting.
I say again, eliminate all athletic scholarships. Return college teams to the kids who can get in based on their academic abilities. Say good-bye to the million dollar coaches and all the leeches on the system that they bring with them.
Admit that we as a country have lost our moral compass.
If you want detail about this business read The System by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian.
Here are some obvious sports questions that Joe Nocera and others have asked about our society.
1. Why do we fund institutions of higher education where the coaches are the highest paid employees on the state payroll, to say nothing of the university?
2. Why do we allow "Coach" to get all the money, while the kids get paid nothing? Especially since the kids are the ones putting the fannies in the seats and generating the interest that results in the mind boggling TV contracts.
3. Why does the NFL have tax exempt status?
If the country was being stomach churningly honest, it would admit that we love our sports entertainers, who are the equivalent of athletic court jesters. We don't care what happens to them, or how, who, and why they are abused.
It is simply immoral at the highest level, and nothing short of disgusting.
I say again, eliminate all athletic scholarships. Return college teams to the kids who can get in based on their academic abilities. Say good-bye to the million dollar coaches and all the leeches on the system that they bring with them.
Admit that we as a country have lost our moral compass.
3
The worst thing is that all this is tax subsidized. Donations to universities, even those flagrantly to pay the coach's salary, are subsidized by all of us.
So $800,000 or so of Mr Helfrich's $2 million salary is paid for by us.
So $800,000 or so of Mr Helfrich's $2 million salary is paid for by us.
7
In 1969 Nike gave the University of North Carolina $7.1 million in athletic gear, $4 million in cash to the University of North Carolina's coaches, and an additional $400,000 to the Chancellor's Academic Enhancement Fund. Chancellor Hooker said he did not think it improper for UNC to be paid to endorse a commercial product. The present academic scandal at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, so forcefully documented by the Wainstein Report and other reviews and investigations, have established, without a doubt, academic cheating on behalf of athletes in order to maintain their eligibility to play in highly competitive, revenue producing athletic events. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill has paid dearly for this gift and others that followed. The College Football Playoff acknowledges that the genie has been let out of the bottle.
2
The universities get paid HANDOMELY to endorse products, but heaven forbid that an college athlete should endorse a product and get paid. Maximum hypocrisy.
I'm looking forward to the day a college super star tweets, "the university has endorsed Brand A for so many millions dollars. I get none of that money, and so do not endorse that brand or any other."
I fantasize about the lawsuits. The benching of a star for denigrating a sponsor's product, the uproar of fans, etc. I can dream can't I?
I fantasize about the lawsuits. The benching of a star for denigrating a sponsor's product, the uproar of fans, etc. I can dream can't I?
There are 5000 colleges in the US we are only talking about a 100 of them. On those teams we are only talking about a handful of players in two sports, football and basketball. The majority of players on even the sports factory schools will get a degree. Why all the fuss about the issues of the few.
Because a degree is not nearly enough compensation for the value that they create.
Because there is no rational reason why the highest paid state employee in 40 of our 50 states should be a college coach.
4
Why is the widespread lack of concern about monetizing of college sports any different than that for spending large amounts of taxpayer's money or taking on civic debt to build a work site (read playing field) for a private business that they call a sports franchise, especially one that charges outrageous prices to attend? The paltry few full time jobs that result don't justify it.
Community spirit? That loyalty lasts until the owner gets a better offer.
Community spirit? That loyalty lasts until the owner gets a better offer.
7
College football is the perfect union of much of what Americans love: tribalism, sitting around, drinking, dressing up in costumes as an expression of belonging and competitive consumption, betting, physical dominance, being "#1," profiting on the work of others, and so forth. I have just on trivial comment: Would it kill Phil Knight to put out just a bit of money for the Oregon marching band? They looked like heck in the Rose Parade.
7
Let’s be honest, College football without the College is semi-pro football and we know how miserable that pays out.
The devoted fan base is generated from the connection fans feel towards the College Institution. However, winning college programs are more profitable than losing programs and therein lies the rub.
Not every college program can be winners, and yet every Big 5 program pay coaches enormous sums and recruit non-student-athletes attempting to achieve what is mathematically impossible – making everybody a winner.
If the NCAA were really honest in presenting college athletics, each institution's admission standards would determine the pool from which a college fields its team. Pro-teams would have to fund their own minor leagues for young non-student athletes.
The devoted fan base is generated from the connection fans feel towards the College Institution. However, winning college programs are more profitable than losing programs and therein lies the rub.
Not every college program can be winners, and yet every Big 5 program pay coaches enormous sums and recruit non-student-athletes attempting to achieve what is mathematically impossible – making everybody a winner.
If the NCAA were really honest in presenting college athletics, each institution's admission standards would determine the pool from which a college fields its team. Pro-teams would have to fund their own minor leagues for young non-student athletes.
2
Great athletes are given an opportunity to excel in college which leads to lucrative careers in the professional sports. It is a pathway for the athletes to get an education they would otherwise not get and also perhaps land a professional contract. Universities have figured out how to harness public demand for sporting events to make a little money. What is wrong with that? Nobody is forced to attend, let alone watch, these events. Revenue from football funds other sports teams that do not cover costs. I have no doubt that the experience of playing team sports is a valuable contribution to someone' s development as a person and future employee.
The University of Michigan is regarded as a pretty good academic large state university, and, historically at least, a very good football playing school. Do you know how many of their football players have signed at least a single NFL contract? 6%. And the average length of career is 3.25 years, which fired coach Brady Hoke pointed out is less time than they spend at Ann Arbor.
A simple solution: if football players are not graduating at the same rate or better than the general student population, then the school is disqualified from participating in the NCAA playoff. Same for men's basketball.
A simple solution: if football players are not graduating at the same rate or better than the general student population, then the school is disqualified from participating in the NCAA playoff. Same for men's basketball.
24
Good suggestion. But what would prohibit the University dumb down the general student body so that football could remain KING?
Setting some relationship between graduation rates and post season play makes sense. But let's also recognize that the steady decline in public support of our state universities has lead them to now calculate their graduation rates over six years, not four.
Just compare the percentage of state revenue that makes up the university budget today with what it was forty years ago and you will see why students pay more tuition and take out more loans to cover this gap.
So athletes graduation rates should also be calculated over six years and scholarships should be extended to allow them to catch up on courses that they couldn't take during their season.
Just compare the percentage of state revenue that makes up the university budget today with what it was forty years ago and you will see why students pay more tuition and take out more loans to cover this gap.
So athletes graduation rates should also be calculated over six years and scholarships should be extended to allow them to catch up on courses that they couldn't take during their season.
New millionaires NEED to know how to count
Cardale's pro career chances got a lot better unless he is not smart enough to learn an NFL playbook and recognize defensive schemes.
A Modest Proposal:
Don't televise college sports. See if that doesn't solve a countless number of these reprehensible and corrosive issues while bringing college back to the classroom (e.g., Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc.)
Don't televise college sports. See if that doesn't solve a countless number of these reprehensible and corrosive issues while bringing college back to the classroom (e.g., Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc.)
Here's the thing: if college football were played by actual student athletes, most fans would not know the difference, the games would be just as competitive, and probably as interesting.
Really.
Really.
"The central conundrum is that universities are simply not built to run a multibillion-dollar entertainment industry. The only way they can do it is by looking the other way at certain practices, and making allowances for good athletes who don’t care much about college itself."
Thanks, Joe. I hate college sports for all the above reasons. It's total madness--not the basketball kind, which still offers innocence in a way no college sport can.
We already have a professional sports leagues. They're called the NFL, NBA, NHL etc. Turning colleges away from their mission to become mini NFLs is obscene to me. Don't get me wrong: I love football in particular, am glued to the tube on Sunday, Monday night, and Thursday too. But I refuse to watch college football.
It's everywhere: every time I look for a pro game, there it is, the interminable college merry go-round, a form of reality TV that won't go away. If college ball were more about the sport, and less about the megabucks, it might be different. But it's gotten totally out of control. College ball used to end on New Year's Day. Now it keeps on going and going and going. Making millions for, as you say, media and institutions not originally designed for this.
It also makes a mockery out of learning. We don't need more college ball but more education.
"Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain’t come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS.”
Jones' tortured grammar reminds us why.
Thanks, Joe. I hate college sports for all the above reasons. It's total madness--not the basketball kind, which still offers innocence in a way no college sport can.
We already have a professional sports leagues. They're called the NFL, NBA, NHL etc. Turning colleges away from their mission to become mini NFLs is obscene to me. Don't get me wrong: I love football in particular, am glued to the tube on Sunday, Monday night, and Thursday too. But I refuse to watch college football.
It's everywhere: every time I look for a pro game, there it is, the interminable college merry go-round, a form of reality TV that won't go away. If college ball were more about the sport, and less about the megabucks, it might be different. But it's gotten totally out of control. College ball used to end on New Year's Day. Now it keeps on going and going and going. Making millions for, as you say, media and institutions not originally designed for this.
It also makes a mockery out of learning. We don't need more college ball but more education.
"Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain’t come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS.”
Jones' tortured grammar reminds us why.
4
“Thanks to the way college sports are run, student-athletes gain an education, learn skills, and have opportunities in life.”
It is to laugh!
But, enough with the angst and opprobrium: if these kids want to addle their brains and scramble their joints for a shot at the gold ring, that's their business. After all, at 18 they are old enough to drive, join the army or get married; why not try for the big times. The real victims here are the taxpayers of all the states whose teams did not make it. (I'm not even sure that team Ohio will post a profit).
We are mulcted to provide a free farm team for the NFL. And the NFL and the public colleges know this.
Why don't you?
It is to laugh!
But, enough with the angst and opprobrium: if these kids want to addle their brains and scramble their joints for a shot at the gold ring, that's their business. After all, at 18 they are old enough to drive, join the army or get married; why not try for the big times. The real victims here are the taxpayers of all the states whose teams did not make it. (I'm not even sure that team Ohio will post a profit).
We are mulcted to provide a free farm team for the NFL. And the NFL and the public colleges know this.
Why don't you?
3
Remember the fall of the Roman Empire, amid Bread and Circuses?
Back then it was the Empire providing these mind-numbing, life sustaining treats; today it is Capitalism. And instead of bread its chicken nuggets, burgers and tacos.
What's the difference - the direction is down, down, down, either way.
Back then it was the Empire providing these mind-numbing, life sustaining treats; today it is Capitalism. And instead of bread its chicken nuggets, burgers and tacos.
What's the difference - the direction is down, down, down, either way.
3
How is it possible that Colleges, whose mission is to educate, surrender their mission to glorify American Football instead. Cheating their 'athlete-students is not the right way, no matter how much money they bring to their 'alma mater'. A paradigm is necessary, a conversation needs to get started. Perhaps you need to just contract the players, pay them, make study an afterthought, and say so.
1
Not one mention of the University of North Carolina scandal where ghost classes existed for 10 years or more so athletes could continue to play sports.
That is clearly wrong. But unrelated to the issue of properly compensating athletes.
There is so much coverage of all the big corporate media hoopla that brings with it the parasitic and predatory corruption that plagues some college sports, especially men's football & basketball. Stand outside the college sports arena or hang out in town before a big game and watch the wheeling and dealing, the money changing hands, the organized criminal gangs working the crowds.
The disgust factor is growing, especially among many faculty. The wink-wink attitude toward academics for college athletes is demoralizing--now openly displayed by too many fawning college administrators, who often fancy and busy themselves playing at being big corporate CEO. Education? Forget about it! It's all about the money. The athletes? Well aren't they just lucky to be here getting a "free" education that too many are ill prepared for or disdain. The faculty? Shut up and teach, and stop whining about academic standards and systemic cheating. I remember when colleges competed with each other to be the top academic universities in general and in specialty areas. Now it's TV contracts, bowl bids, sports rankings.
Meanwhile, there are a host of other men and women's sports being played the old-fashioned way at your local college or university. Some of our friends have abandoned season tickets to our local big time university that excels at men's basketball, and they go the lacrosse games & women's basketball and have a glorious fun old time.
We and our athletes will pay the price
The disgust factor is growing, especially among many faculty. The wink-wink attitude toward academics for college athletes is demoralizing--now openly displayed by too many fawning college administrators, who often fancy and busy themselves playing at being big corporate CEO. Education? Forget about it! It's all about the money. The athletes? Well aren't they just lucky to be here getting a "free" education that too many are ill prepared for or disdain. The faculty? Shut up and teach, and stop whining about academic standards and systemic cheating. I remember when colleges competed with each other to be the top academic universities in general and in specialty areas. Now it's TV contracts, bowl bids, sports rankings.
Meanwhile, there are a host of other men and women's sports being played the old-fashioned way at your local college or university. Some of our friends have abandoned season tickets to our local big time university that excels at men's basketball, and they go the lacrosse games & women's basketball and have a glorious fun old time.
We and our athletes will pay the price
3
The minute we started saying that college is for everyone, the battle was lost. Increased accessibility to college without concomitant support of K-12 education has forced a dumbing down of college. It has become just another touchpoint in the journey of life. If we can offer college for intellectual disabled (http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/02/13/college-is-possible-..., then why now bastardize college even further by granting degrees to these supposed scholar/athletes. Do they really even need to have critical thinking skills - they have a college degree!
2
Joe, just go to a big game these days. I recently went to one between Cal and Stanford at Cal. Endless adverts on a PA system once used to promote some fun, television time outs, commercial signs everywhere, venerable stadium, which cost 500 million to fix up (yes 500 million at a time when the economic squeeze has affected thousands of students) partially renamed for some sponsor nobody every heard off, and utterly unpredictable game time due to tv scheduling. And we won't mention grad rates, which at Cal are horrific and an embarrassment. Or that there were thousands of empty seats at a game which at one time could sell 100,000 tickets. Ra, Ra, Sis Boom or Bust.
3
Oh please get off your high horses. The college education system is just fine. The fact that some members are not their for the education but for the career opportunities (e.g. Pro contract) is hardly an issue. The sports programs do help fund the university as well. Yes you can complain that the football athelets don't get paid directly but I am hardly worried given the ridiculous salaries paid to those who go pro, even those who leave school after only two years.
The U. of Michigan has one of the few not only self-sustaining athletic departments in the country, but one that sends funds to the general fund. I think Ohio State is another. They represent less than 5% of the big 5 conference public universities. But when Brady Hoke was still coaching at Michigan, he made pointed reference that, even being an historically elite college program, fewer than 6% of scholarship players at Michigan ever signed even single NFL contract, and that the average NFL career span of those players was 3.25 years, or less time than they spent at Ann Arbor. Take out an outlier for both earnings and length of pro tenure, such as Tom Brady, and it is very hard to square that characterization of yours that pros get "ridiculous salaries." Even the average of those 6% who went pro hardly earn enough as pros to ensure lifetime financial security, especially in the NFL with *non-guaranteed* contracts the norm.
Here's progress: If the football, or men's basketball teams do NOT earn *degrees* at the same, or better rate than the general student population, then the school is disqualified from being in the NCAA playoff for that sport. Since Michigan was sanctioned (more than once, I think) for violating NCAA maximum hours of participation, it would require a refocus to academics. Of course, Michigan was sanctioned, but it is ludicrous to think that every team in the top 25 isn't equally guilty of requiring more than 24 hours/week team time, the supposed limit.
Here's progress: If the football, or men's basketball teams do NOT earn *degrees* at the same, or better rate than the general student population, then the school is disqualified from being in the NCAA playoff for that sport. Since Michigan was sanctioned (more than once, I think) for violating NCAA maximum hours of participation, it would require a refocus to academics. Of course, Michigan was sanctioned, but it is ludicrous to think that every team in the top 25 isn't equally guilty of requiring more than 24 hours/week team time, the supposed limit.
1
So, the value-add for OSU: millions of viewers watching our team on the largest football stage of the year. Insane amount of advertising for the University. Great recruitment prospects, tons more in merchandise sales. Lots of help to other NCAA sports within the organization. For 7 million? That is cheap.
Paying Coaches millions a year since they are the best in the business isn't egregious. Florida Atlantic pays its coach no more than a cardiologist, and it's the 100th highest paying college. Salaries take off near the top because the competition for top coaches coaching top programs is intense. It is no different in any other profession.
Also, it is well-known that most football players are just pushed through the education system. If anyone has had the pleasure of taking a class with any Football/Basketball NCAA athlete at a top 'sport' school, it is clear most have no redeemable academic prospects. Should they get paid? No. They know that zero pay comes with the deal. They can ride out the glory, then realize, without any sports merits, they are at the bottom of the food chain again.
Paying Coaches millions a year since they are the best in the business isn't egregious. Florida Atlantic pays its coach no more than a cardiologist, and it's the 100th highest paying college. Salaries take off near the top because the competition for top coaches coaching top programs is intense. It is no different in any other profession.
Also, it is well-known that most football players are just pushed through the education system. If anyone has had the pleasure of taking a class with any Football/Basketball NCAA athlete at a top 'sport' school, it is clear most have no redeemable academic prospects. Should they get paid? No. They know that zero pay comes with the deal. They can ride out the glory, then realize, without any sports merits, they are at the bottom of the food chain again.
10
In what other industry in the US are you allowed to work with no pay?
Great, as long as you don't worry about the primary mission of the "school." What's a $M sports program got to do with education? And BTW, did you note that U of TX, with the highest revenue stream in the country, ran an athletic dept. deficit this year.
Scott,
Is your reference to OSU athletic life meant to describe any reputable college experience? Plain and simple, it seems to best describe a professional feeder or farm system.
I'm quite clear on the ancillary benefits to the truly undeserving, manipulative and greed-infested entities involved, but the rationale presented here becomes perverse, if not abhorrent, within the notion of accomplishing nothing for these matriculating students and banishing them to "the bottom of the food chain [sic], again." And the benefit that you extoll is what - entertainment? Is this not both supercilious and outrageous when placed in context - disposable entities prejudged and abandoned in advance?
Is your reference to OSU athletic life meant to describe any reputable college experience? Plain and simple, it seems to best describe a professional feeder or farm system.
I'm quite clear on the ancillary benefits to the truly undeserving, manipulative and greed-infested entities involved, but the rationale presented here becomes perverse, if not abhorrent, within the notion of accomplishing nothing for these matriculating students and banishing them to "the bottom of the food chain [sic], again." And the benefit that you extoll is what - entertainment? Is this not both supercilious and outrageous when placed in context - disposable entities prejudged and abandoned in advance?
Why not privatize college sports at state run universities? Selling an Athletic Department would generate hundreds of millions for a school. Given what it costs to buy a pro team how much would Ohio State University get to sell its operation?
32
As long as the NFL buys the football program. The college football team is, in fact, its minor league/player development system.
in other words, spin off the football team at XYZ U and recognize it as an entertainment entity only loosely related, and not really connected to the supposed objectives of, to XYZ U, but only linked by the name. the name could be licensed to anyone with an acceptable team who would pay XYZ the fee.
I recall that once upon a time the people of New York and Brooklyn thought that the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers baseball teams had some connection to their respective cities. Many people felt a loyal connection to a team. That was until one day in the late 1950s both teams were abruptly moved to San Francisco and Los Angeles, respectively in what was clearly a set of commercial transactions in which location and loyalty were only marketing chips.
as college football has become the same type of business for many schools schools should recognize their teams for the commercial entities that they are and sell them. Then the players will no longer have to "play school".
I recall that once upon a time the people of New York and Brooklyn thought that the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers baseball teams had some connection to their respective cities. Many people felt a loyal connection to a team. That was until one day in the late 1950s both teams were abruptly moved to San Francisco and Los Angeles, respectively in what was clearly a set of commercial transactions in which location and loyalty were only marketing chips.
as college football has become the same type of business for many schools schools should recognize their teams for the commercial entities that they are and sell them. Then the players will no longer have to "play school".
We tend to get this argument reversed. It is not players who are being taken advantage of but college and universities, students, and taxpayers. Colleges may (or may not) gain from an increased profile which athletics brings but sports programs are largely run by and for athletic foundations which are given tax breaks while competing with the schools they supposedly represent for donor money. At the big power schools presidents have no real power to control who coaches teams, how programs are run, whether players who violate rules remain eligible, or how money is spent. All the while these business enterprises use, free of charge, the name and image of the university without charge. If the program makes money that money goes back into athletics, even if it could be better used on campus. Meanwhile students lose two ways. First, they pay exorbitant student activity fees to support this enterprise and secondly some don't gain admittance to their preferred school because their place is given to players like the one you noted who said classwork was pointless.
You can't save Oregon or Ohio State. The five power conferences have sold their souls. But it is time for the rest to abandon the NCAA, rewrite the playbook for college athletics, and go their own way. Eventually gamblers, greed, and corruption will bring down the current model at the five major conferences. The rest should remove themselves now before they become collateral damage from the collapse.
You can't save Oregon or Ohio State. The five power conferences have sold their souls. But it is time for the rest to abandon the NCAA, rewrite the playbook for college athletics, and go their own way. Eventually gamblers, greed, and corruption will bring down the current model at the five major conferences. The rest should remove themselves now before they become collateral damage from the collapse.
82
Absolutely. The "student athlete" is a total fiction. Honesty would have the big universities clearly labeling their teams "sponsored by," just as local taverns and beer distributors once sponsored teams that played on local sandlots. That's basically the situation that prevails now, without the honesty.
If the players had to live off campus, maybe some parents would have a little less worry for their daughters.
If the players had to live off campus, maybe some parents would have a little less worry for their daughters.
To read Nocera you would think that the NCAA was owned by billionaires who exploit students - who actually have little or no money themselves to exploit. Of course the NCAA is just a front organization, and most of the money generated by the major sports goes back into the ordinary operations of the universities. More importantly to the universities and colleges, sports maintain the interest of alumni and state legislators to keep donations and other funding flowing, so even if the athletics department is a net loss it is usually considered important. Of course ESPN and other networks take a cut, but television is a net money-maker directly and indirectly for higher education.
What this means is that the athletes are really working mostly for the student body as a whole, and even the non-athletic employees. The really elite athletes also have a chance to become professional and actually earn big money, but in the meantime a full scholarship effectively pays a lot more than an 18-year old high-school graduate would otherwise earn. Minor-leaguers in baseball and other sports earn peanuts. Most of the athletes would still be in sports regardless of any potential future payoff, and the vast majority have no expectation of any such payoff.
This is an absurd way to fund higher education, but it's what the free-enterprise system has devised. The idea that paying the athletes would somehow fix things is strange - does college athletics really need more professionalism?
What this means is that the athletes are really working mostly for the student body as a whole, and even the non-athletic employees. The really elite athletes also have a chance to become professional and actually earn big money, but in the meantime a full scholarship effectively pays a lot more than an 18-year old high-school graduate would otherwise earn. Minor-leaguers in baseball and other sports earn peanuts. Most of the athletes would still be in sports regardless of any potential future payoff, and the vast majority have no expectation of any such payoff.
This is an absurd way to fund higher education, but it's what the free-enterprise system has devised. The idea that paying the athletes would somehow fix things is strange - does college athletics really need more professionalism?
1
I am sure your employer would appreciate it if he could get you to work for free so that he can pay for other parts of his business. After all, it MIGHT be a gateway for you to management, so you should appreciate the opportunity to create great value for your employer while you work for free.
1
I guess all this $$$$ explains why college tuition is so low and why it doesn't keep rising at two to three times the CPI.
2
ESPN owner Rupert Murdoch strikes again. Seems there is no organization he cannot corrupt with his corrupt money. The Ohio State win is center stage on the New York Times front page today. Here's the bottom line: The starting quarterback for Ohio said, "“Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain’t come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS.” Get sports out of colleges and universities. The money does not help the institutions and opens our higher education system to even more corruption. Start a junior NFL for these kids who don't want to learn and coaches who are only in it for the money.
43
ESPN is 80% owned by The Walt Disney Corporation, 20% owned by the Hearst Corporation.
First of all, Rupert Murdoch does not own ESPN, it’s owned by Disney. I know college sports seem like a fantasy sometimes, but Disney has nothing to do with it. It’s the people, who want to pay college athletes like professional ones that are creating this fantasy world. What a great way to ruin America’s great university system by introducing two classes of students – the haves and the have-nots. Who said money can’t buy an education?
1
Rupert Murdoch does not own ESPN. ESPN is a joint venture between Disney and the Hearst corporation with Disney owning an 80% share.
1
Amazing how much ink the NYT devotes to the supposed evils of football. We get it. The NYT staff and much of its reader base does not like football. Don't watch it then. Regardless, let's stop pretending that it is the matter of national; importance that the reams of incessantly negative coverage at the NYT would imply. It may be good troll bait for the NYT commenters who also dislike football, but that is about it. Give it a rest.
7
It is not, of course, about liking football, the game. It's about not liking football, the hypocritical business. I admit that many people, like me, have trouble keeping the two apart, but they are separate. You could have football without the hypocrisy, I suppose, and you can certainly have the hypocrisy without football.
3
No one said they did not like football. It is just dishonest to pretend it is there for education, and give the players only room, board and an education that is not real for many.
3
The problem is not that it's football, it's that it's college football. What should be a pastime for the university and its community is awash in money and clearly getting corrupted as a result. It's the greatest example I can think of of the tail wagging the dog. These football coaches make more money than the university presidents they supposedly serve!
1
Take a listen to sports talk radio. Whether it's pro or college football or basketball, they go on and on, practically 24-7, passionately talking about the players and detail after detail of each play and game. Ad nauseum, and as if it matters more than our economy, healthcare, foreign policy, wars, etc. And to them it does. And they DON'T refer to the colleges as colleges--they call them TEAMS. The USA is a country full of very ignorant people. And believe this--colleges know that their potentially successful sports teams will attract more prospective students--because the kids want their school (er, team) to be WINNERS. And for the 50% of the schools with losing teams? Too bad: lower enrollment! That means the coaches are the most important mentors on campus--and the highest paid--with the major colleges paying millions of dollars to these jokers. And you can take this to the bank: Phil Kniight has put the U of Oregon on the MAJOR POWER map!
16
Professional athletics on university campuses corrupt higher education.
25
Universities have many forms of corruption like grade and price inflation, left leaning perspectives, restrictive context, and over paid coaches and administrators. If everyone is so concerned with coaches salaries, cap then at $150,000 per year and limit the number of supporting coaches to 6. All of this is curable but no one is truly willing to step away from the trough.
Wrong John, totally wrong.
College Presidents have corrupted higher education. The greed of Wall Street pales in comparison to the greed of colleges today. And this culture of greed is abetted by overpaid college Presidents who have forsaken the educational mission by letting faculty, in many cases encouraging faculty to, dumb down the curriculum so that students are happy (less educated, but happy) and have plenty of free time for social activities. Colleges today are geared more towards an expensive vacation than a quality education.
College Presidents have corrupted higher education. The greed of Wall Street pales in comparison to the greed of colleges today. And this culture of greed is abetted by overpaid college Presidents who have forsaken the educational mission by letting faculty, in many cases encouraging faculty to, dumb down the curriculum so that students are happy (less educated, but happy) and have plenty of free time for social activities. Colleges today are geared more towards an expensive vacation than a quality education.
I would like to say that this was the beginning of the end of the exploitation of college labor, but alas I feared we are just getting going. There is too much money floating around to be had by those with the asymmetric negotiating status. One could say this is a study in monopsony. An unorganized labor force faces a cartelized employer. This brings the equilibrium solution of fewer employees at lower wages (in this case zero or if you must a college education provided with a marginal cost of close to zero). Sick, some sleazy advertising exec/coach/college administration gets rich and the players get used and discarded. In closing, ever wonder why in pro sports you never see the owners name on the back of a souvenir jersey? Cause they don't do the work.
13
It was written much better than I can do it some time in the past: "Oh, what tangled webs we weave, when we practice to deceive". That about covers the whole of our so-called "college sports" and the NCAA. And the so-called fans pay the price............
6
All hail the power of ESPN! They have been allowed to control what and when we see sporting events. Only those who can afford (or simply decide not to buy ) cable can now watch bowl games, baseball play offs, and so forth. How have they been allowed to corrupt our air waves? This is the same same money that chooses who we will be allowed to have as our political leaders. America has been sold to the highest bidder.
26
You seem not to have noticed the type of economic system we have here.
How about this.
The colleges become the minor leagues of football and basketball.
We let college basketball players become full time players with no class requirements in the spring and do the same for football players in the fall semester. It is absurd to see them practicing more than professional players.
It the other semester they become full time students and they then take courses in the summer.
They are payed for the semester they play. I had baseball and basketball players play half a professional schedule coming to me when I was a professor saying "We are going on a road trip and I will be gone for a week". The problem was the greedy university presidents who abdicated their educational responsibilities, took the money and looked the other way.
Then if they can't graduate in six years with four years of playing, their scholarship would be withdrawn at the end of the six year period. haha.
The colleges become the minor leagues of football and basketball.
We let college basketball players become full time players with no class requirements in the spring and do the same for football players in the fall semester. It is absurd to see them practicing more than professional players.
It the other semester they become full time students and they then take courses in the summer.
They are payed for the semester they play. I had baseball and basketball players play half a professional schedule coming to me when I was a professor saying "We are going on a road trip and I will be gone for a week". The problem was the greedy university presidents who abdicated their educational responsibilities, took the money and looked the other way.
Then if they can't graduate in six years with four years of playing, their scholarship would be withdrawn at the end of the six year period. haha.
47
This is pretty much the way it works now, with one exception—the athletes do not get paid. At least not market value. Most of the athletes—especially the starts who services are in demand coming out of high school—have a monetary arrangement with their program.
It is the rare college football or basketball player who does not take the minimum of classes allowable when their sport is in season. These athletes catch up on their required course load in the summer. This is not optional; it's how the system works.
They also know they are only allowed to take certain majors, ones that have classes that fit into their practice and training schedules. This is true for virtually all sports, from the revenue producing programs to women's softball, and is true from D-I schools to D-III.
Cardale Jones has it exactly right: college athletes are there to compete in their sports. That message is communicated early, often and very clearly from everyone involved, including and most important, the presidents of the universities.
Joe Nocera is right to point out the egregious unfairness of paying everyone in this show but the performers. But he is leaving out an important element. The system is almost by definition corrupt, and teaches these athletes—many of whom go on to become high school and college coaches—that lying and cheating is part of the system, and that the rules don't apply to them.
These two lessons, above all else, are what our "student-athletes" learn.
It is the rare college football or basketball player who does not take the minimum of classes allowable when their sport is in season. These athletes catch up on their required course load in the summer. This is not optional; it's how the system works.
They also know they are only allowed to take certain majors, ones that have classes that fit into their practice and training schedules. This is true for virtually all sports, from the revenue producing programs to women's softball, and is true from D-I schools to D-III.
Cardale Jones has it exactly right: college athletes are there to compete in their sports. That message is communicated early, often and very clearly from everyone involved, including and most important, the presidents of the universities.
Joe Nocera is right to point out the egregious unfairness of paying everyone in this show but the performers. But he is leaving out an important element. The system is almost by definition corrupt, and teaches these athletes—many of whom go on to become high school and college coaches—that lying and cheating is part of the system, and that the rules don't apply to them.
These two lessons, above all else, are what our "student-athletes" learn.
25
Not accurate with respect to all D-III programs, but, alas: the emphasis on specialization in one sport; greater numbers of good to great athletes (i.e. not enough spots for everyone at D-I); and increasing hype at the high school level all contribute to making even some D-III programs more like D-I programs---a lot of advance recruiting, no walk-ons, less time to do anything except eat, sleep, play ball, go to class, less likely a D-III athlete will participate in more than one varsity sport.
This isn't just slave labor, it's slave elite-entertainers and the universities absolutely love it. Marcus Mariota for free while you make hundred of millions?! You can't get that deal anywhere!
The money they make, at the very least, should: 1) go into one giant American Universities Fund. 2) Some of it should pay for student athletes who sustained injuries that ended their careers. (Arbitration) 3) The bulk of the rest should go to reducing the cost of college education for everyone and extending interest free loans.
The college football lobby is so powerful, they could probably get the U.S. Congress to extend zero interest loans for college, but they're too busy lining their own pockets.
The money they make, at the very least, should: 1) go into one giant American Universities Fund. 2) Some of it should pay for student athletes who sustained injuries that ended their careers. (Arbitration) 3) The bulk of the rest should go to reducing the cost of college education for everyone and extending interest free loans.
The college football lobby is so powerful, they could probably get the U.S. Congress to extend zero interest loans for college, but they're too busy lining their own pockets.
89
Those students are "slaves?"
That is insulting to those held in chains, and those forced to pay into systems that are obviously failing.
Many of those students are from high-crime areas, they think they've gone to Heaven. Get real, please.
That is insulting to those held in chains, and those forced to pay into systems that are obviously failing.
Many of those students are from high-crime areas, they think they've gone to Heaven. Get real, please.
1
College football and basketball teams are the farms for the American Gladiators. And if they play well enough or long enough they gain their freedom. And since education is not a requirement to play on the farm teams many of these practicing gladiators are thrown to the side when their bodies are worn out and beat up. Some make it to freedom, many don`t. College sports should not be a paid profession, it should be a major. Training these practicing gladiators to be able to move beyond the physical side of the profession they want to join. And yes the profits derived from college sorts should go back to full spectrum of education and not just the handlers, trainers and the professional promoters.
2
More like indentured servitude than slavery.
For generations courts have banned the NCAA from allowing anything but hearsay in their hearings. No direct evidence.
O'Bannon final ruling was more of a threat for the NCAA to either implement the Rule of Due Process of Law under Federal Rules of Evidence or else Judge Wilken or Jeff Kessler's court might allow matters to be decided by each NCAA 1,280 or so member universities and conferences.
No one performed due diligence re image, likeness and names of college players being sold.
Off topic.
Two college prep and admission counselling companies that were formed in the mid-90s and issued public stock have US$7 bllion and $9 billion market values. Tell Disney/Comcast owned ESPN that there's other fish to fry that US universities have ignored or overlooked.
O'Bannon final ruling was more of a threat for the NCAA to either implement the Rule of Due Process of Law under Federal Rules of Evidence or else Judge Wilken or Jeff Kessler's court might allow matters to be decided by each NCAA 1,280 or so member universities and conferences.
No one performed due diligence re image, likeness and names of college players being sold.
Off topic.
Two college prep and admission counselling companies that were formed in the mid-90s and issued public stock have US$7 bllion and $9 billion market values. Tell Disney/Comcast owned ESPN that there's other fish to fry that US universities have ignored or overlooked.
2
ESPN won. The power conferences won. The coaches made out like bandits. Phil Knight would be happier had his team won, but he still has reason to be happy.
There are lots of winners in this racket. But... Alabama is an eighth-rate public university that has been a football powerhouse for half a century. The team´s prowess has done nothing to improve that university. FSU, a better university than Alabama, is nonetheless in more or less the the same boat. Ohio State and Oregon are much better public universities, but no thanks to football.
Now, it is an unhappy fact that all over America state legislatures are busy pulling the plug on public universities, in effect privatizing them and putting them beyond the financial reach of working class and middle class families. And it is an equally unhappy fact that professional college football is one more instrument of privatization. The best thing that our public universities can do is to toss professional football, indeed all professional athletics, where it belongs, in the toilet, and give it a long, hard flush.
Money aside, there is no such thing as a big game. "Big game" is a big oxymoron.
Finally, I can only hope, and I pray to whatever god might be listening, that in the fullness of time, the clueless adolescent who said that "we ain´t come to play SCHOOL" will come to realize that SCHOOL ain´t no game.
There are lots of winners in this racket. But... Alabama is an eighth-rate public university that has been a football powerhouse for half a century. The team´s prowess has done nothing to improve that university. FSU, a better university than Alabama, is nonetheless in more or less the the same boat. Ohio State and Oregon are much better public universities, but no thanks to football.
Now, it is an unhappy fact that all over America state legislatures are busy pulling the plug on public universities, in effect privatizing them and putting them beyond the financial reach of working class and middle class families. And it is an equally unhappy fact that professional college football is one more instrument of privatization. The best thing that our public universities can do is to toss professional football, indeed all professional athletics, where it belongs, in the toilet, and give it a long, hard flush.
Money aside, there is no such thing as a big game. "Big game" is a big oxymoron.
Finally, I can only hope, and I pray to whatever god might be listening, that in the fullness of time, the clueless adolescent who said that "we ain´t come to play SCHOOL" will come to realize that SCHOOL ain´t no game.
124
I am a professor at an "elite" school and I totally get what Cardale Jones' tweet meant. I admire him and think he is brilliant -- not in the sense that he would get an "A" in most of my classes -- but in the sense that he understands, all too well, exactly the atmosphere he breathes.
118
Yes he does, but a step back to make his tweet slightly more eloquent would have helped build his case. But boiled to its essence you are correct Doc.
2
Madam, he is just like 95% of students, he doesn't want to take exams. As most of your students wish they did not have to. It is called "youth."
Niece Susan was a teaching assistant at a "Big 5" football power. She personally failed a top running back, out of the university, because he did not do the academic work. The inter-personal pressure was intense, she did not budge, she was an example for the compliant and leisurely tenured.
The next year, the head coach was fired for incompetence. NCAA compliance has never been higher than today.
That is something you will never read in this column, which appears to keep repeating the same questionable material, over and over and over ..
College sports aren't perfect. Neither are runaway college costs, the productivity of tenured faculty, mindless "creditialism" that drive tens of millions to sub-marginal colleges, and many other things.
Niece Susan was a teaching assistant at a "Big 5" football power. She personally failed a top running back, out of the university, because he did not do the academic work. The inter-personal pressure was intense, she did not budge, she was an example for the compliant and leisurely tenured.
The next year, the head coach was fired for incompetence. NCAA compliance has never been higher than today.
That is something you will never read in this column, which appears to keep repeating the same questionable material, over and over and over ..
College sports aren't perfect. Neither are runaway college costs, the productivity of tenured faculty, mindless "creditialism" that drive tens of millions to sub-marginal colleges, and many other things.
1
Paul i guess you should blame the private schools that I am sure his single mother of 6, from the poor neighborhood of Cleveland, chose for him from all the choices she presented to her 20 years ago. I agree that his tweet could have been "more eloquent" but you sound like the guy that shoots a man in his knee and then criticizes him for limping. I hope Cardale does not read your comment because it is an insult at the highest level.
and so nakedly less about schooling.....
5
I'm always disheartened hearing about students purposely choosing party schools, football schools, Greek schools, etc. For too many American students, college - even the possible free community college President Obama is suggesting - is simply another hoop to jump through to get a job, with the possibility of useful networking. Not about learning, not about personal growth, curiosity, maturation, or scholarship. The conflation of academic life with these "multibillion-dollar" sports is appalling and not a good omen for our students or our country.
63
Mr Nocera:
Please take apart OSU's Provost, trustees, it's football credibility. To let a student play who disdains classroom activity is a disrespect to the very standards of higher education. We as a normal society debate Common Core Standards in state education - to have this as an end result. Don't know how the president, provost, and academic community can hold their heads up. Thanks
Please take apart OSU's Provost, trustees, it's football credibility. To let a student play who disdains classroom activity is a disrespect to the very standards of higher education. We as a normal society debate Common Core Standards in state education - to have this as an end result. Don't know how the president, provost, and academic community can hold their heads up. Thanks
33
When asked after the game last night about leaving OSU for the NFL: "It's up in the air, sort of, because my No. 1 priority is graduating from Ohio State University and walking away with something that no one can take away from me," Cardale Jones said.
It appears to me that OSU has made a difference in a kid that didn't value education before he enrolled and now. Also, note that he tweeted that when he was a high school kid. You can agree with me that I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was a teenager.
It appears to me that OSU has made a difference in a kid that didn't value education before he enrolled and now. Also, note that he tweeted that when he was a high school kid. You can agree with me that I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was a teenager.
I don't know what change you intend by continuing to write about the money involved with division 1 football and basketball. Nothing is going to change regardless of how distraught you are about the money coaches receive, lack of money players receive, money television receives and the universities. It is, sadly about money first which of course, means winning at all costs. So, don't watch. If enough people didn't the money would disappear. Or, watch and enjoy the pagentry. Or watch and be upset, critical, and don't enjoy. Too much money is involved for anything to change. Personally, I believe education and creativity matter more - a whole lot more. Even as I write this I'm reminded of the tremendous importance of those who have the education and mental gifts to develop flat screens and computers and smartphones and apps and cameras and medical devices and cures and treatments.And even football depends on today's technology - developed by brain power not brawn.
17
Having a presidential commission on sports is absurd; whether someone chooses to watch this stupidity and throw his money at it is a personal matter like how many times a day he wishes to pick his nose. I don't see that as the government's business.
The president should, however, move to revoke the non-profit status of the schools involved, and make them ineligible for funding through federal agencies like the National Institutes of Health, National Science Foundation, etc. The grounds are there. Don't threaten to do it. Just do it.
The president should, however, move to revoke the non-profit status of the schools involved, and make them ineligible for funding through federal agencies like the National Institutes of Health, National Science Foundation, etc. The grounds are there. Don't threaten to do it. Just do it.
32
A and G do you always have such conflicting ideas. Which one of you wrote each paragraph? Hope you remain friends and get past your widely devergant ideas on what the president should or shouldn't do.
Jones tweeted, “Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain’t come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS.”
You know your society is in trouble when that is the most honest person in regards to the Higher Education and Sports Complex. A poor, semi-illiterate but honest young man. Not the "intelligentsia" with a significant proportion that cares more about the sports money than the education from institutions of higher learning. Not the alumni who take inexplicable, extra pride in having those schools as sources of entertainment with free labor as the providers of their mirth. Not the regular sports fans who "need" this as distraction from their not so great lives. Not the massive sports media that uses this as a critical portion of their programming, readership and ratings. Only in America!
You know your society is in trouble when that is the most honest person in regards to the Higher Education and Sports Complex. A poor, semi-illiterate but honest young man. Not the "intelligentsia" with a significant proportion that cares more about the sports money than the education from institutions of higher learning. Not the alumni who take inexplicable, extra pride in having those schools as sources of entertainment with free labor as the providers of their mirth. Not the regular sports fans who "need" this as distraction from their not so great lives. Not the massive sports media that uses this as a critical portion of their programming, readership and ratings. Only in America!
31
When asked after the game last night about leaving OSU for the NFL: "It's up in the air, sort of, because my No. 1 priority is graduating from Ohio State University and walking away with something that no one can take away from me," Cardale Jones said.
It appears to me that OSU has made a difference in a kid that didn't value education before he enrolled. Also, note that he tweeted those comments about going to class when he was a high school kid. You can agree with me that I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was a teenager.
It appears to me that OSU has made a difference in a kid that didn't value education before he enrolled. Also, note that he tweeted those comments about going to class when he was a high school kid. You can agree with me that I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was a teenager.
Here's the conclusion of the Presidential Commission on College Sports:
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda
blah blah blah
Here's what the conclusion of the Presidential Commission on College Sports should be: "Hey NFL and NBA - fund your own darn farm teams."
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda
blah blah blah
Here's what the conclusion of the Presidential Commission on College Sports should be: "Hey NFL and NBA - fund your own darn farm teams."
84
Baseball, hockey, even basketball now has a minor league farm system. Yet we are okay with the NFL using our colleges and universities as a de facto farm system. And the major teams are most often state institutions, which means the taxpayers in those states are helping to support those teams in one way or another. Why do we let the NFL get away with this while they still enjoy tax exempt status?
35
Actually, baseball and hockey have huge farm teams, such as the Durham Bulls and and in Canada.
Further, at age 19, if a young person is talented enough, that person can go pro.
Those are the facts.
Further, at age 19, if a young person is talented enough, that person can go pro.
Those are the facts.
1
That is what he said, it is pro fb which seems to be exempt from having to support a farm system.
1
The University of Oregon now has the distinction of having played in the first NCAA national basketball tournament and football tournament. I am a second-generation Duck with two degrees from UO, and I am not at all happy that my alma mater (which is female, please note) is at the forefront of the professionalization of college sports. Uncle Phil (Knight) is not my friend.
24
Ah, Joe, it's no surprise that there are those who would keep the kids down. It's a well understood phenomenon that when you give labor even an inch, the unions that then appear on their behalf like maggots spontaneously generated from old wood will agitate for not just a mile but half a parsec.
2
Organized labor is responsible for the 40 hour work week. Benefits. And at one time a living wage. They give dignity to the working man and woman of this country.
Unions gave the working people a voice where they previously had none, and leverage when negotiating with the companies for which they worked.
Your snarky Faux News comments, which you so often repeat on these cyber pages, gives voice to the nation's current lack of moral clarity. It is not the companies in this country that matter, it is the people.
It is not the million dollar football coaches that matter, it is the kids. That we would use and abuse them under the farcical system called the amateur "student-athlete" is a California-sized whopper of a lie. Any student on a football scholarship has a J-O-B. A 40 hour plus per week one. His job? To get "Coach" wins. Nothing else matters. Certainly not his education. Which he doesn't have time for given his responsibilities.
The fact that we would use and abuse kids all in the name of entertainment is a stain on our country.
What do the kids need? That's right. They need a union to negotiate with their employer. And they need it now.
Unions gave the working people a voice where they previously had none, and leverage when negotiating with the companies for which they worked.
Your snarky Faux News comments, which you so often repeat on these cyber pages, gives voice to the nation's current lack of moral clarity. It is not the companies in this country that matter, it is the people.
It is not the million dollar football coaches that matter, it is the kids. That we would use and abuse them under the farcical system called the amateur "student-athlete" is a California-sized whopper of a lie. Any student on a football scholarship has a J-O-B. A 40 hour plus per week one. His job? To get "Coach" wins. Nothing else matters. Certainly not his education. Which he doesn't have time for given his responsibilities.
The fact that we would use and abuse kids all in the name of entertainment is a stain on our country.
What do the kids need? That's right. They need a union to negotiate with their employer. And they need it now.
6
What a complete misrepresentation of the role unions have played.
4
I assume from your tone you are not at all worried about the asymmetric position the employers(college sports programs in this case) hold over unorganized labor.
Exactly why I don't share your zeal for paying college athletes. Too many variables. No reliable connection to future success beyond the sport which, as you say, will not materialize for the majority. Call it for what it is. I hear there is talk of reinstating Penn State's victories. Square that circle.
6
In the 2012 Program for International Student Assessment rankings of 15-year olds among the 34 OECD countries, U.S. students ranked 27th in math, 20th in science and 17th in reading. Now, with this increasing “emphasis on money-above-all-else” in college sports, it appears that our educational institutions are hell-bent on going from dumb (at the high school level) to dumber (at the college level).
Let’s hope that it’s just not “idealistic reformers” that are “calling for universities to re-emphasize education,” but also parents, political leaders, business professionals and all manner of pragmatic people. It is true “that universities are simply not built to run a multibillion-dollar entertainment industry” because their central purpose is to run a high quality education system.
We still have the world’s best universities; let’s not have the “college moneyball” gamble that lead away. After all, we simply cannot be a great sports nation without always being a greater STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) and liberal arts nation.
Let’s hope that it’s just not “idealistic reformers” that are “calling for universities to re-emphasize education,” but also parents, political leaders, business professionals and all manner of pragmatic people. It is true “that universities are simply not built to run a multibillion-dollar entertainment industry” because their central purpose is to run a high quality education system.
We still have the world’s best universities; let’s not have the “college moneyball” gamble that lead away. After all, we simply cannot be a great sports nation without always being a greater STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) and liberal arts nation.
13
Not to mention the brain damage done in high school and college sports, particulary football, before these young men can even make it to the pros. It is ironic that the neuroscience depts of many universities researching sports related repetitive brain trauma still continue to field their football teams.
34
Unlike Obamacare, those students are not forced to play. They can quit, today. And, if they are good enough, they can wait a year and go pro.
And the problem is?
And the problem is?
2
Wow, out of the mouths of babes. Connecting ACA to head injuries from college sports, primarily fb, is a new one on me. (Fox News must have missed this one)Let me attempt to help you out. Prior to medical science connecting cigarette smoking to many diseases, including cancer, smoking was glamourized, even promoted by ads in popular culture. Perhaps if the colleges would begin helping the young athletes understand the long term ramifications and the risks of head, knee, shoulder, back, foot, internal organ, neck, leg, muscle injuries it would level the playing field. Better yet pay the athletes and make it what it is, professional sports.
3
"Oregon’s Mark Helfrich, who makes $2 million a year, plus up to $1.1 million in bonuses, will get an extra $250,000 if his Ducks win. Ohio State’s Urban Meyer, who makes $4.5 million a year, got a big bonus just for making the four-team playoff." --- Nocera
This is ridiculous if not obscene! The President of University of Oregon makes "only" about $600,000, so the football coach is U. of O.'s highest paid person by far. Probably the same goes for Ohio State.
It's past time to end college football as it's currently structured. Colleges and universities are supposed to be for education, scholarship, and cutting edge research, not to profit ESPN or Nike's Knight or siphon off millions per year to pay a non-academic coach. Universities need to return to the days when academics came first and sports, including football, was a recreational activity. If people want to play football, they should try out for the professional teams, where they'll be rewarded appropriately for their skill. Turning college football into another would-be professional venue for non-academic athletes takes money away from where it should be spent: providing better academic opportunities for qualified students.
This is ridiculous if not obscene! The President of University of Oregon makes "only" about $600,000, so the football coach is U. of O.'s highest paid person by far. Probably the same goes for Ohio State.
It's past time to end college football as it's currently structured. Colleges and universities are supposed to be for education, scholarship, and cutting edge research, not to profit ESPN or Nike's Knight or siphon off millions per year to pay a non-academic coach. Universities need to return to the days when academics came first and sports, including football, was a recreational activity. If people want to play football, they should try out for the professional teams, where they'll be rewarded appropriately for their skill. Turning college football into another would-be professional venue for non-academic athletes takes money away from where it should be spent: providing better academic opportunities for qualified students.
46
Fact: that coach can be fired in a NYC moment. After that -- become a TV talking head. Not much fun.
1
What does his risk of being fired in a NY min have to do with the obscene difference in what he is paid and other more important jobs from a public welfare surplus perspective. A MacDonalds worker can be fired in a ny minute too. Are they given such a large compensating differential? No.
3
Fact: that university president can be fired in a NYC minute. After that --become another modestly paid college professor. Not much fun either and certainly less lucrative.
2
At the very least, the colleges for whom they play should teach them money management in case they do have a pro career, or how to find a coaching job and again how to manage their money!!!
4
Another fabulous column in your series about college athletics
7
Unless you asked for comment from Cardale Jones on his tweet and he reiterated the thought, then I feel is is unfair for the NYTimes to print what was likely a random, offhand comment. Asking for comment also may have evoked an even stronger point.
But, I don't think that's what happened and it fails journalistic standards, even if the thesis of the op/ed is valid.
But, I don't think that's what happened and it fails journalistic standards, even if the thesis of the op/ed is valid.
4
Everyone numbskull with a Twitter account knows their "offhand" comments are flying far and wide. They have no expectation of privacy and certainly no expectation that their remark might not be further disseminated. Indeed, athletes and celebrities pray that they'll get retweeted. He said what he said and it seemed abundantly clear what he meant.
5
Universities are not really parts of the business world, but their famous teams are, since entertainment is a huge industry. To maintain their independence and not get sucked into a business mentality, they need money, which must be sought with a business mentality if the search is to be successful.
Without sports they fear they will lose money, even though sports are expensive. As long as prowess in sports entices alumni to give more money, such prowess is valuable to the university as a business enterprise. If we want them to move out of the sports business, we have to tell them how to replace the revenue.
We are hesitant these days to support anything without a business orientation, and schools are one of the items we no longer like to support at previous levels.
Without sports they fear they will lose money, even though sports are expensive. As long as prowess in sports entices alumni to give more money, such prowess is valuable to the university as a business enterprise. If we want them to move out of the sports business, we have to tell them how to replace the revenue.
We are hesitant these days to support anything without a business orientation, and schools are one of the items we no longer like to support at previous levels.
2
Revenue does not equal profit. If an honest set of books were kept, including all the overhead and amortization charges pertaining, then there would be no profit on sports at any university. What's needed are university presidents with the spine to add up the losses and tell the truth to students, alums, taxpayers, and the NYT.
1
Sir, the "profit" in sports is that it "markets" to alums for donations, brings in student $$$, and pays for women's sports.
No football -- big drop in donations, students leave in droves, and no women's sports.
And your alternative is?
No football -- big drop in donations, students leave in droves, and no women's sports.
And your alternative is?
1
Big money "college" sports NEED to be COMPLETELY separated from their educational institutions.
71
And if you did that, the following would happen --
-- Women's sports would immediately collapse, because the fact is that they are not financially self-supporting.
-- Alumni donations would drop by at least 20%. Well, that's better performance than most college student newspapers, which are financially dying.
-- ESPN making money? Hey, sports and porn are financing a majority of the Web and cable TV.
-- Coaches make money? OMG! Yeah -- and they can be fired, on a moment's notice. Google "Brady Hoke" and "Notre Dame."
-- The BHO team wants to investigate? Google "healthcare(dot)gov." Same thing.
-- And the OSU QB doesn't like school. Hey, drop by campus during finals week -- 95% of the students feel the same way. Does that mean, no final exams?
The writer keeps repeatedly re-writing the column, "there's too much money and not enough education in college sports."
Easy-money bet: college sports were here before him, and will be here after him.
-- Women's sports would immediately collapse, because the fact is that they are not financially self-supporting.
-- Alumni donations would drop by at least 20%. Well, that's better performance than most college student newspapers, which are financially dying.
-- ESPN making money? Hey, sports and porn are financing a majority of the Web and cable TV.
-- Coaches make money? OMG! Yeah -- and they can be fired, on a moment's notice. Google "Brady Hoke" and "Notre Dame."
-- The BHO team wants to investigate? Google "healthcare(dot)gov." Same thing.
-- And the OSU QB doesn't like school. Hey, drop by campus during finals week -- 95% of the students feel the same way. Does that mean, no final exams?
The writer keeps repeatedly re-writing the column, "there's too much money and not enough education in college sports."
Easy-money bet: college sports were here before him, and will be here after him.
6
When pigs fly.
Besides, subs have gone on to get picked up by the pros. The guy who played behind one star center for John Wooden never started a single game but got picked.
Any coach wanting to transfer such subs away to open up room for the next lineman or running back is playing with fire. I don't think Urban Meyer is that dumb.