Cuomo Bucks Tide With Bill to Ease Limits on Abortion

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo is preparing legislation that would guarantee women in New York the right to late-term abortions, and remove the issue from the state’s penal law.

Comments: 271

  1. this is a very brave man...taking this out of the penal side of New York law, protecting doctors and standing up for women...A very brave man...

  2. Brave men generally do not kill children, already born or otherwise. Brave men are protectors of the weak, not acomplices of the strong buullies.

  3. I commend Cuomo for this. It's time to stop pretending that abortion, particularly in the later term, isn't part of comprehensive women's health care. Not every pregnancy ends up a healthy pregnancy.

  4. Cuomo, a Catholic? Dolan should jump in on this and put Cuomo to public shame, assuming he is not elected the next Pope. Either way, best Dolan issue a public order of excommunication to Cuomo, anything else makes a mockery of the Church's pro life stand..

  5. Religeon, my friend, is deeply personal, as is conception, pregnancy, and parenting. Who are you to call for excommunication? What gives you the right to interfere in these personal matters?

  6. Andrew Cuomo is the Governor of ALL the people of NY State. He is not a Catholic prelate.

  7. Dolan was not elected to the Governor's office. If Dolan would like to dictate women's health care in NYS he should run for legislature. In the interim let's remember that this isn't the middle ages and that Cuomo was elected to represent a large constituency with varying religious beliefs.

  8. At last - a politician that recognizes the importance of a woman's right to choice AND the courage to stand up.

  9. I applaud this effort not only for the women of New York, but also on behalf of women living in states that have been so severely limiting health services and options for women and girls that they have little or no providers of abortion services.

    Let New York once again be an example to our nation and allow women the dignity of making their/our own best choices for our health, our families, and our lives.

  10. Let government govern and religious figures preach.The government is not a pawn of the Roman Catholic Church.If Roman Catholics do not want to go for abortions that is their right.They do not make the rules for the rest of us.

  11. You say those who don't want abortions shouldn't have them. Would you have told abolitionists that those who didn't believe in slavery shouldn't buy one? It's the same question; how do you define a person? Roe v Wade was a close match for Dred Scott.

  12. There can be legitimate disagreement on definition of personhood in regard to a fetus. It makes sense to ask at what point a fetus is "viable," but I think the question of slavery has been pretty much decided; there really isn't a respectable argument in its favor. Your equating Roe v Wade with Dred Scott is not viable.

  13. weremensh, yes it is the question of how do you define a person: Dred Scott used religion to define a person while Roe v. Wade uses science, and religion has no place in government. Roe v. Wade and Dred Scott are comparable only if you reject science and believe that we live in a theocracy.

  14. Governor Cuomo is asserting a woman's right to choose without government dictating an artificial time line.


  15. Aren't democrats the party that believes in science? The science is very clear that a fetus after 24 weeks is not only viable, but feels pain. The government is allowed to intervene to prevent suffering, isn't it?

  16. surges - will all due due respect, a fetus of 24 weeks is not viable. At 28 weeks you would have a better argument. It is not a question of size, but of development. Lungs are not functional before 24 weeks. Please google "hyaline membrane disease" and you will understand.

  17. The article clearly states that this is about those preganacies that are doomed to end in problems like the death of the mother if abortion is not a choice. Why do the "pro-lfers" continue to twist their version of reality into an anti-abortion screed at every turn?

  18. thank god.... someone in all the insanity of the abortion rhetoric is standing up for women. I am also interested in the other provisions of his Woman's Equality Act. Bravo Governor Cuomo!!

  19. Thank you, Governor.
    Very much.

  20. Simply astonishing, this is not about a woman's right. This is about responsibility. After 24 weeks that baby is viable outside the mother. Choose before that ladies. When Roe v Wade occurred a woman didn't know she was pregnant until 8 weeks, now they easily know at 2 weeks. It's bad enough to wait until 13 weeks now women want to be able to have an abortion whenever they want? 30 weeks and still do it? It's about personal responsibility. Maybe you should look at my nephew Alex who was born at 23 1/2 weeks or his brother Ben born at 26 weeks, betting ready for college and tell me how can you do that. C'MON WOMEN DECIDE IN A RESPONSIBLE AMOUNT OF TIME!

  21. And when your wife develops seizures and organ shut down at 27 weeks due to eclampsia, should she be denied the ONLY procedure that can save her life - delivering the fetus - because she did not choose to develop fatal complications in a responsible amount of time?

  22. There are certain aspects regarding fetus viability that aren't detected until what is considered later term. This isn't about "responsibility". This is about health care. Please remember that women are fully formed human beings who are capable of making appropriate decisions.

  23. This is about medical issues that arise after that time.

  24. Refreshing to hear news about a SANE public servant who can tell public health from hate crimes.

    How tragic that so many men are so petrified of women and so full of hate toward potential life than they insist on waging an endless tantrum of war against those through whom alone human life can enter this world.

    This especially disgraces Roman Catholics, who so flout the example of one of the rare spiritual teachers who stuck up for women against the oink contingent who wanted for fun to go stone the prostitutes and invited him. Jesus accepted the invitation on condition that anyone sinless throw the first stone. All the male chauvinist pigs, as he knew they would have to do, slunk away ashamed of themselves.

    Perhaps these men forget how to read, or perhaps they avoid the often challenging spiritual and moral example of their supposed founder and go their own merry way of hate and insecurity and scapegoating others, pursuing their own worse natures.

    We could call this the "Women's Rights Are Human Rights Act," in the immortal words of the once state senator now retired secretary of state. Or how about the Sibyl Crawley Memorial Public Health Act"?

    Long live public health! Attaman, Governor Cuomo! Fortunate New York, to have a sane, adult governor.

  25. "the oink contingent" - Can I use that?

  26. Why is Governor Cuomo a liberal on every issue but education and unions?

  27. Or on transit.

  28. This an act without courage to it all. Just beefing up his credentials for 2016.

  29. Bravo...brave Governor Cuomo. We must remember the recent tragedy in Ireland, where a young wife and mother died because she was refused an abortion. Governor Cuomo's stance is a beacon of intelligence and compassion in a sea of misogyny and religious bullying. Cuomo is apparently a man who keeps his word and has the courage to buck the fanatical Religious Right.

  30. The photo of Cumo reminds me of Al Pacino playing Michael Corleone in the Godfather II. I think the line was; "I don't feel I have to wipe everybody out, .... Just my enemies!" Cumo's doing the right thing for woman's rights but I fear for the wrong reasons--publicity and headlines that will lead to more power and perhaps send him off to a higher office. This country was created through a form of a republican democracy. The founding fathers were wise enough to realize that a true democracy often results in "mob rule," and that electing representatives can lead to the establishment of a ruling class. Their solution was a little bit of both and hence compromise became the way governing usually progresses. I am all for what Cumo proposes-- to ease the limits on abortions-- as it is every woman's right to decide whether or not to bear children. I just feel Cumo could have accomplished this in perhaps a way that wasn't quite so egotistical. Ah well I'm sure he will make Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan an offer he can't refuse!

  31. To Guudbears of N.Y.: I don't know why Gov. Cuomo is doing this but I also don't know that he is doing it for political reasons. Even politicians may think an issue is fair or unjust. Why must there so often be a cynical reason for doing something?

  32. interesting that you make mafiaesque allusions to an italian-american governor's policy decisions. was "mob rule" & "offers he can't refuse" the only phrases by which you can analogize?

    if we had a jewish governor, would you indulge in anti-semitic allusions? how about a black governor? you must know how offensive your comment is. too bad you have stooped so low, it vitiates your otherwise valid point supporting women's reproductive rights. also it's CUOMO, not cumo.

  33. Dear Guudfella: your gratuitous cartoon-caricature smear of Italo-Americans like Gov. Cuomo, myself and millions of others does nothing for your argument (whatever it is). We non-nihilists understand that democracy is a feedback loop: good policy and good execution are rewarded at the ballot box, as they should be.

  34. Thank you, Governor Cuomo !

  35. Courage is in pretty short supply from many of our politicians these days. Governor Cuomo is certainly bucking that trend.

  36. What do the anti-choice people propose to do when the head of the fetus is too large to pass thru the birth canal? All the choices are horrible. The head is large because it is filled with water. This means there is a high probability that even if extreme measures are taken (the women is cut open) the baby will be born dead or a vegetable (and the mother will never be able to have another child). Who else should make this terrible decision other than the mother?

  37. As a woman who has had 3 C-sections, the first under emergency conditions, I assure you -- women who are "cut open" are not sterile afterword.

    The problem isn't C-sections, the problem is that ending a nonviable pregnancy prematurely (by any means, including induced labor) is abortion. Mr. Cuomo's brave action lifts the fear of criminal prosecution from an MD who, when faced with a pregnancy where something has gone seriously wrong, places the health of the mother above that of a premature, nonviable fetus.

  38. Actually HT I believe that in the case I mentioned (head too large) a normal C-section cannot be performed, but a "classical" one is required. Sometimes the uterus must be removed.These types of C-section have a high probability of infertility.

    Late term abortions have a much lower chance of complications.

    see for example

  39. I've not heard that hydrocephalus babies and other babies whose heads are too large cannot be delivered by C-section. (I cannot find where the wiki page you cited talks about hyrdocephalitic babies or fetuses.) To my knowledge, the longitudinal incision you describe is now primarily done when an emergency occurs during delivery, which is a different circumstance than that faced by women who need late-term abortions because of a hydrocephalitic fetus will not survive outside the womb. Perhaps an OB familiar with these cases can comment.

    Bottom line, though, Len, is that you and I agree on the fundamentals. The decision of how to manage, and, if necessary, end a complex, medically compromised pregnancy belongs to a woman and her doctor -- and not politicians or pro-life activists who want to believe that all pregnancies are either perfectly healthy or life-threatening, with no difficult circumstances in between.

  40. Thank you, Governor Cuomo, for this additional protection for women and their families.

  41. There are some sane politicians left it seems.

  42. Common sense. Thank you!

  43. Way to go! KILL those unborn babies! They are just SO darn inconvenient.

  44. We are killing this planet in our numbers with our technology. And what about all the people who will want to live forever when we figure how the body self-destructs?

  45. Your moral superiority is showing. You're saying the only reason for a woman to terminate pregnancy is for convenience. That's bit simple minded and short-sighted which is why this decision should never be made or imposed by public decree.

  46. Thanks for sharing your views. You have a right to your opinion.

    What you don't have is the right to control other people's reproductive rights.

  47. As a Physician, I firmly believe that life begins at conception.

    Shame on anybody, who tries to convince them self that aborttion is not killing of a person !

  48. I'm curious what kind of "physician" you are.
    There is a major difference between cells splitting and dividing and a viable fetus. Nobody wants to "kill" anything. Get your mind out of the gutter and think clearly.
    We cannot have an intelligent conversation about abortion in this country until people use logic, reason and science to guide us - and not religion. That religion is devoid of logic, reason and science is part of the problem, sadly.

  49. At issue is not "killing" a fetus, but protection of the life and health of the mother. As a woman who has been pregnant and given birth, I firmly believe that a pregnant woman is a life deserving of legal protection. A mother's life and health should not be sacrificed for a fetus by anyone's decision but her own. Our government should not be involved in the very personal, moral, medical decisions raised when a mother's life is at risk from her pregnancy.

  50. Your belief, as a physician, is of no consequence.
    The only thing that is of consequence are the women of this country who have the right of self determination without you putting demands on them. You, as a physician should mind your own business, heal the sick, and leave women to tend to their business and reproduction rights. Abortion, in one form or another, has been with us ever since women have learned how thousands of years ago and always will be with us no matter what you sanctimonious hypocrites think.

  51. As a 60 year old woman whose right to choose was taken away by a butcher in the 60s pre-Roe, I applaud a sane and humane man such as Governor Cuomo. He's stood up to many bullies. Let us think about 2016. But in the meantime, thank you. I cry tears of joy.

  52. Thank you for sharing your experience. People forget what happened in the years before Roe v Wade. Legislation does not stop abortions, it just makes them deadly.

  53. Amazing no one here defends the right to life for the unrepresented unborn that Gov. Cuomo so magnificently desires to kill. What if life begins at conception?

  54. Science has established life does not begin at conception.
    You have a right to your religion that would lead you to believe so, but do not impose your religious beliefs on the rights of others.

  55. Life goes on all the time, but the development of sentience does not begin until birth.

    I presume the "what if?" goes on to ask what if a neurotic humanoid master creator of the universe is sending people to Hell forever for not banning abortion for everyone?

  56. That's the woman's call. Leave her alone.

  57. Thank you, Governor Cuomo. The majority of New Yorkers are behind you. That majority includes Catholics - like me - who support women's reproductive rights. The Cardinal does not speak for us.

    Virtually all Catholics use birth control, and a majority support a woman's right to choose. Late term abortions are tragic, but the decision as to whether one is required should be made by a woman and her physician, not a woman, her physician and the district attorney.

    Republicans in the State Sente would do well to heed the voice of the people. New York will never embrace the right-to-life a/k/a, right to abuse women, extremists. Thank god, and thank the people of New York, that our Governor is on our side.

  58. This governor may well be the most reasoned, empathic politician of our times. Kudos to him for supporting the rights of women and physicians.

  59. Bravo Governor! This is exactly what is right for women's health.
    It is particularly brave since the press tells us he wants to be President. He is doing the "right thing" in spite of political and church consequences.
    We need more leaders like Cuomo.

  60. Cardinal Dolan, where are you? I've searched all the comments here seeking your voice and found nothing.

  61. Let him out of this debate, we don't need the Church to meddle in our lives.

  62. Where it belongs. Outside of the conversation. Dolan is not an elected politician in the NYS legislature.

  63. I'm pro abortion but not sure I agree with this. Which are the cases where a woman would wait so late? If it's just laziness or indecisiveness, I think it's that woman's responsibility to make up her mind by 26 weeks. I am currently 25 weeks pregnant with my 2nd child and I fully know there's a baby moving around inside me. She has almost all her organs and skin and apparently can hear us. Like another commenter-these babies can survive outside the womb in many cases. I might understand if one didn't know they were pregnant but I think 5-6 months is enough time to decide. I want all children to be loved and wanted...and maybe we need easier adoptions here in the US (realize a whole different issue) but this seems like not really thinking about the LIFE here. Again, would love to be enlightened on what I'm missing other than its a woman's right...

  64. It's rare that someone waits that long but it does happen. I had an acquaintance who waited till 7 months. She lived in an area where she couldn't find someone to perform the abortion that late so she had her daughter. Ironically she says her daughter is the best thing that ever happened to her.

  65. While I congratulate you for your pregnancy, why do you think you have the right to comment about another woman's healthcare? Why can't you just be happy and leave others alone to live their lives and make their own decisions?

  66. The article states the law would guarantee late-term abortions for women when their health is in danger and the fetus is not viable, not "laziness or indecisiveness." But even beyond that, circumstances in a woman's life could change at any point, and it's possible she might no longer feel able to have a child.

  67. It's about time somebody showed both common sense, compassion, and courage. There is nothing so despicable as those who seek to restrict the rights of women to determine their own lives. Abortion is something women have been doing forever, whatever the anti-choice so called pro-life militants wish to believe. All you moral crusaders need to stop harassing and demeaning women to make yourselves feel like you are better than others.

  68. Just because something has been done "forever" does not make it right.

    It's interesting how harassment and demeaning speech always seems to be defined by the perceived victim.

  69. Governor Cuomo trusts women to make their own choices. It's no one's business but that of the woman in question. Butt out, everyone else.

    Those who disagree, and distrust women, should move to North Korea.

  70. You can never, ever allow the religious to make any demands on this country because the second you allow them even the smallest concession they dig in and chip away at your rights until you have none.

    It is long past time to start taxing churches because they have been forcing their religion on Americans through the courts for long enough.

    They think that they are above the law and that they have a god given right to meddle in everyone's personal business.

    How much longer are we going to stand for this?

  71. Okay, please start taxing us. Thank God that the church still exists to speak out against moral wrongs. If we didn't, there would be complete silence. You believe that your lack of God and lack of belief have made you "free," but they really haven't. All laws are based on moral and ethical principles. Where do moral and ethical principles come from?

  72. You can never, ever allow the irreligious and athetists to make any demands on this country because the second you allow them even the smallest concession they dig in and chip away at your rights until you have none.

    That being said, the abortion issue has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the scientific fact that a human life begins at conception and must be protected. You can't kill someone -- particularly an innocent -- because you have a "good reason."

  73. Amen!!!!

  74. 41% of all abortions in New York end in voluntary abortion. How can anyone say that women have limited to access to abortions? Why create a controversy when there isn't a problem?
    BTW, with Obama nominating the next few Supreme Court Justices, does anyone honestly believe that Rowe will be overturned?

  75. The two oldest judges are on the liberal block. If nature follows its course, Prez. Obama's only chance is to protect the minority, but not to change the radical conservative majority.
    Yes, I honestly believe that Rowe might be overturned if the likes of Thomas (65yo, at least 20 more years), Scalia (77yo, at least 8 more years), Alito (63yo, 20 more years), Roberts (58yo, 25 more years), and Kennedy (77yo, at least 7 more years), continue to stay in the Court.

  76. Statistic source? Also, it's "Roe."

  77. This has NOTHING to do with numbers of abortions: late-term abortions are vanishingly rare, and are done when the mother is at risk or the fetus is already dead. No woman should be forced to risk her own life or health to accommodate a stranger's superstitions, nor should she be forced to continue carrying a dead, rotting fetus, possibly for months.

  78. I am pro choice but I can not understand how a doctor could do late term abortions and not have nightmares from the dead babies. A pertinent fact I did not get from the article but would have liked to know is the definition of "viable" as it pertains to this legislation.

  79. When abortion happens this late, it is due to a non-viable fetus. Perhaps you should worry about the nightmares of women who have no medical options due to legislators taking decisions about health care practice.

  80. Perhaps the doctor dreams of the women whose lives he has saved and the couples whom he has helped. Perhaps he feels no guilt at all. Perhaps he knows he does the right thing.

    I cannot speak to the viability issue.

  81. The bill specifically states that the procedures being legalized are for life threatening conditions. One might think a "pro-life" person would want to save lives. Apparently not, judging by some of the comments this has gotten. If they're so interested in avoiding this sort of medical tragedy, maybe they should go to medical school and research alternatives. As it stands now, some conditions (like eclampsia) can ONLY be treated by getting the fetus out. Left untreated, both mother and fetus die. That doesn't sound particularly "pro-life" to me.

  82. It would be just as easy to have c-section done on the woman, as it is to perform an abortion. Why would a woman choose to kill a viable baby instead of having a c-section where that viable baby could live. Like Richard, above, I am very familiar with the Left, and have always been a part of the Left. But, you know, my liberal friends....this is to much. You guys are really getting to be too much. If a woman's life was ever in that much danger when a baby is 6-9 months, she can have a C-Section. I know of many babies who were born at 6 months and are healthy children or young adults today.

  83. Durban - there's more to viability than gestational age. A fetus may make it to the third trimester without being viable - not because of gestational age, but because it's lungs have not developed or some other serious problem makes it unable to ever live outside the womb.

    In these difficult cases, MDs should be free to pursue the most appropriate treatment for their patients. Doctors, not political activists, should decide whether the best way to treat a complex pregnancy.

  84. Actually the article states that this new law would make it allowable for health reasons. You can attach any reason you want to that.

  85. I am a progressive and have been since the late 1950's. I lived through and participated in the Civil Rights movement, risking my life more than once in the deep south. I am somewhere left of the president and voted for and financially supported his re-election campaign, etc. But abortion is murder purely and simply. Neither the ovum nor the fetus is ever "connected", in the scientific sense, to the mother's body. She is merely the host for an independent human being from conception until delivery. She has no rights except those of self-defense (if the fetus threatens her life or health) to seek to kill another human being.

  86. I am glad for you richard that you are a "progressive" and participated in the Civil Rights movement but you are clearly by your name, a man who has no say in a woman's healthcare, except maybe for your wife's. Your belief in the rights of a fetus are valid but meaningless to others.

  87. I am constantly amazed at the way some in the pro-life movement trivialize pregnancy.

  88. You are also someone who can never get pregnant. It's incredibly offensive to suggest women are mere "host[s]" who have no right to make decisions as to what goes on in their own bodies, especially given that some people do not agree that abortion is tantamount to murder. Also given that the woman is hosting the fetus, and its development is wholly contingent on her body providing what it needs, they are indeed connected (what is the umbilical cord if not connective?), no scare quotes necessary.

  89. as so often in the debate on this hot topic, opponents of all late term abortion overlook the facts of the situation of a pregnant woman who learns that she is carrying an unviable fetus. A work colleague of mine some years ago in NY State had to undergo what was very like labor although called a termination when her first pregnancy had to be ended at 6 months because the fetus was encephalic. The emotional and physical pain were bad enough but she also had to endure the intrusive ignorant pestering of a co-worker about this "choice". Please do not let lack of knowledge (or compassion) blind you to the realities of the need for this procedure to be safe, legal and covered by health insurance.

  90. Any other publication might have mentioned the New York woman who just died after a 33-week abortion in Maryland that was legal and done by a practitioner, but clearly not safe. 21-week babies have been born and lived with relatively minor complications, and by 24 weeks the survival rate is meaningful. Abortion past that point is clearly killing a baby that has a chance for a normal life in many cases.

  91. You are quit the statistician, Patrick. Many women die when their bodies naturally abort after nine months. Maybe we should all stop having children. Oh, wait...I didn't mean we. I''m a man. I'll never know what I would personally do if I were 33 weeks pregnant. Maybe you are different.

  92. "21-week babies have been born and lived with relatively minor complications". You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. None.

  93. Those who have already formed their ideology are seldom swayed by facts: In the case of the Maryland late term abortion, the woman had sought the abortion after finding out the fetus had severe brain abnormalities.

    Still, the decision was the woman's, how ever it turned out.

  94. Regarding the comments offered here... I am thoroughly uninterested in the opinions of men about what women should and shouldn't do. I worked at an abortion clinic and I did not encounter a single patient who didn't have a legitimate reason for seeking to terminate a pregnancy. Ending a pregnancy can sometimes be the very best decision possible, especially if the woman's life is at risk or the fetus is not viable. I wouldn't want to wait 2 weeks to deliver a dead baby myself. Gentlemen, I don't tell you about how to take your Viagra, so please zip it about my reproductive choice.

  95. Sometimes the ones who know are the last to be listened to. Sad.

  96. I don't think you can equate taking Viagra with ending the life of a baby who is only weeks or days from birth. Let's face it at that point the baby is most definitely a baby.

  97. Plenty of women are anti-choice. Lots of men are pro-choice. Why someone who favors abortion rights wants to alienate millions of supporters is beyond me. And yes, I know only women can bear babies.

  98. Thank you, Governor Cuomo. I am a man. I have 9 sisters. I have children. Abortion is a decision that only belongs to the woman that is pregnant. Men should have nothing to say about it.

  99. I am surprised to learn that what the Governor is seeking -- "the right to late-term abortions when the woman's health is in danger or the fetus is not viable" -- is not already the law in the State of New York. In general, this seems reasonable and necessary.

    However, I would be interested to know what is meant by the phrase "health is in danger." What about an 8-1/2 month old fetus, who is as healthy as can be. What types of health issues would allow the woman to terminate under those circumstances? Although a man, I think this is a reasonable question to ask.

  100. Pay attention, men. It is a widely-held belief that men should have nothing to say about the issue of abortion. Remember, though it takes two to make a life, many people believe that only one of them gets a say in what happens to that life.

    You must realize that the right to have a say begins and ends when the decision is made to engage in sex, so keep in mind that the consequence of having sex and/or not using contraception is that you may lose the right to take part in any decisions thereafter.

    Should your partner decide to not abort, you are liable for child support. Although your opinion has no value, your money certainly does.

    Should your partner decide to abort, you are likely to be left out of the decision. According to many, you are a man, and therefore unfit to take part. Your feelings are of no consequence.

    This can only occur if you decide to engage in sex (especially unprotected sex). If you are smart and care about your rights, then you will exercise them *before* placing yourself in a situation in which you will abdicate your future rights. Have your say while you have the chance. Otherwise, you relegate yourself to a bit player whose future choices will be made by someone else on the basis of her gender.

    Every time you hear someone say that men should "have no say," take it as the warning it is meant to be. Only a fool would ignore it.

  101. Thank YOU, Bill Moore, for being so intelligent and reasonable about this.

  102. Amazing how the right fights the battle they want rather than the battle as it is. If you recall the first paragraph:
    "Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo is putting the finishing touches on legislation that would guarantee women in New York the right to late-term abortions when their health is in danger or the fetus is not viable."
    This isn't about recreational abortions as some would make it seem. This is about protecting the life of "the born". It might be a hard decision but being against this idea simply makes a bad situation worse for many women. We have little political consensus in this country because people would rather grandstand than think.

  103. "health is in danger or the fetus is not viable."

    Sounds suspicious to me. Sounds like baby killing with a bunch of excuses. I know of women who have died in childbirth. It is very sad, but it is immoral to kill a baby, when it is 6-9 months of development.

  104. Ummm- recreational abortions?

  105. Is it moral to allow the mother to die?

  106. Womens rights are already protected in this state, we do not need more Abortion Legislation. This is an effort by our Governor to grab some attention as he focus'es his attention on re-election or setting the stage for election to higher office. New Yorkers wake up. Our Governor's job is to represent everybody. We need some serious attention to economic growth in this state and the cost of government. Those issues have been ignored for years and there are not any easy solutions. Instead of addressing the critical needs of this state lets talk about Abortion, grab some attention in the press, and get all the women riled up. We are a great state, "The Empire State" and we can do alot better.

  107. "we do not need more Abortion Legislation" Thus spoken by a man.

  108. I will never understand why people think we can only deal with one issue at a time and thus must focus on what some think is most important while neglecting all the rest.

  109. "Get all the women riled up."

    Golly, next thing you know we're going to demand the vote, the ability to drink in public, the right to drive cars, the right to work outside of the home even if we don't "have to," and the ability to determine our reproductive futures. We womenfolk are crazy like that.

  110. You mean a late-term abortion like Rick Santorum's wife had, in order to save her life? The Santorums may choose to call it an early induction, but when it's done too early for the fetus to survive, it's an abortion. The couple could have chosen to pray, relying on God's will, but they chose abortion instead. Their fellow Conservatives woukd call their decision murder. If made by another couple.

  111. Who cares about Rick Santorum? This is an issue of right and wrong.

  112. Mulling, who laments the apparent decision ( I was unaware of it) to have a late term D and C) by the Santorums is making precisely the wrong point. It is not my business or Mulling's what the Santorums do. It is their choice and we should all applaud a Governor with the courage to buck the tide and promote choice. I don't know his motive. I can't read minds but maybe it's just possible that he believes a woman's right to choose must be protected.

  113. Alan - Mrs Santorum did not have a D&C. She had an "early induction," which means that her MD induced labor of a premature fetus.

  114. Good for the Gov, and good for us. If the Right hates government intrusion in our lives, then they should forbid government to obstruct a woman's medical decision. She has plenty of support to make her decision: Medical professionals, clergy, social workers, psychologists, family and friends as well as Right and Left Wing opinionators. She doesn't need a law that tells her what to do.

    Libertarians should be on board with free choice, but they still like government intrusion to advance their causes. Let's remove that red, Right Wing letter "A" from our people.

  115. Woman with a viable fetus in its 36th week of gestation decides she does not want the baby after all. She tells her physician she will commit suicide if she keeps this fetus inside her a day longer. Doctor aborts to save the life of the mother. Does anyone see something wrong with this?

  116. It's ridiculous to assume women have late-term abortions because they're "lazy" or "irresponsible". They have them because something has gone horribly wrong with the pregnancy, a pregnancy they wanted or they would have terminated it early on. Women don't suddenly wake up one day, well into their pregnancies, and think "I guess I don't want this baby after all, think I"ll run to the clinic and terminate it". Get a grip, people, and stop insulting our intelligence. Try having some compassion for the woman who has to make a terrible decision and leave her & her family in peace.

  117. And if a woman did do that, what would you say then?

  118. Any woman seeking a late term abortion can get it regardless of her health. When its legality was first questioned, doctors that performed abortions were anonymously surveyed as to the need for late term abortions they performed and to the man, all of them stated that there was no medical reason in any of the abortions that would have endangered the life of the patient any more than a normal delivery would have. Today, the majority of these "abortion by skull crushing" are performed because the patient is psychologically unable to cope with childbirth or parenting. Andrew Cuomo is of the same cloth of his father and that is not a compliment. When abortion was legalized in New York, he could have vetoed it, however he stated as adverse as he was to abortion, the majority of his constituents were pro-abortion so he had to put his personal feelings aside and sign it into law. Shortly thereafter when the majority of his constituents came out for the death penalty in New York, he vetoed it stating that regardless how his constituents felt, he had to vote his conscience. A lying opportunist.

  119. Please cite your sources for the anonymous survey, and source of info that the "majority" of late term abortions are for psychological reasons. You can't just throw out pseudofacts.

  120. As someone said, you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Reference to these "facts" are that "anonymous survey" and all the other unsubstantiated myths in your comment.

  121. Ne York has the two biggest and most shameless publicity hounds and egotists in uomo and Shumer. I think in Andy is doing this to get some liberal capital in the bank before he approves fracking - which he will have to do to further his outsized national ambitions.

  122. We constantly argue when life begins. I feel every man who buys a condom, and every woman who takes birth control or the morning after pill knows when life begins.

  123. late term abortions should be allowed only when the fetus is not develoing normaly

  124. For the sake of honest disclosure, are you a male or female?

  125. And if the life of the mother is at risk, too bad, just let her die?

  126. A chip off the old block. Just like his dad. Cuomo for Prez in 2016!

  127. Seems to me that abortion kills more innocents than do guns, so how does Cuomo sleep at night with his contradictory positions on both subjects? I suppose its really all about getting the votes....he wouldn't be the first politician to sell his soul I suppose.

  128. Incredibly, one month ago the Governor was bypassing the normal legislative process to pass a firearms law that makes no one safer but criminalizes a vast group of law abiding people for the property they own " If it saves just one life". Yet here he wants legislation that could directly cause the death of an otherwise viable life. Which is it , which one life matters? This is just blistering hypocrisy . Pandering in an obvious quest to be Hillary"s running mate in 2016 at any cost.

  129. I don't think you read the article.

  130. Late term abortions are done only when the fetus is unviable or there is an imminent threat tot he mother's health. They are not performed on healthy women carrying a viable fetus.

    The gun law was rushed for a legitimate prevent a last minute surge of these lethal weapons onto the streets. Guns are not simply "property one (SIC) owns". They are lethal weapons and should always be treated as such, first and foremost.

  131. I haven't read lately where newborns were used as lethal weapons to kill people. There is a difference between a neonate and an AK-47, in case you weren't aware.

  132. Abortion should not be illegal no mater when it happens. Late term abortions need the full weight of evidence to whether it is safe and a have good reason for it. That is why Planned Parenthood as a group, is part of the solution

  133. Bravo, A Cuomo buck the tide,
    And give the Repubs a rough ride,
    Too long they've intruded
    Free choice have precluded,
    While Crocodile tears they have cried.

  134. Keep your day job Larry.

  135. Don't like my Governor passing laws about a private issue -- Yes, it is a vote getter, but doesn't belong in legislation. But if anyplace, it should stay on the state level -- the Feds are supposed to a) Provide for the common defense and b) stay out of EVERYTHING else.

    I know that is not very Community Activist Approved, but it is Constitutional. Choose which one you want.

  136. Tom - I have two issues with your argument:

    a) Along with providing for the common defence the Preamble also includes these equally important points:

    ' form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, .... , promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...'

    b) Abortion is not a private issue, it is controlled and regulated by the State.

  137. If a child is born premature, we will dedicate substantial resources to keeping the child alive because as a society we agree this is a human being. However, with the same breath we will provide for the right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy at the same point because the child is not viewed as a person. I find this is a very stunning contradiction. We need to decide as a society when life begins and have consistency in how we apply that view.

  138. Once the child departs from the Mother and is, thereby, no longer a part of her, a different set of moral/legal rules apply. Seems pretty obvious to me.

  139. I was decided in Roe Vs. Wade.

  140. This - the governor's measure - makes a lot of sense. But I would wish that the Governor would also include an expansion of support for women seeking medical help in general - especially help with birth control and reproductive issues - along with sex education. The more of the latter - health care and health education - that we can offer women, the less of the former - abortions - we'll see.

  141. Abortion is a terrible decision to have to make. As with other life-changing or life-threatening issues, the push for change should not be legislative but cultural. Until we commit to teaching boys to honor girls, and also to drum into every boy and girl all of the biology and consequences of (unprotected) sex, legislating a woman's choice will always be unfair.

  142. No one should want to see abortions, but the mother's well-being is just as important as the fetus', and until the baby emerges, it is part of the mother.

    What we need along with this law are new or reaffirmed policies:
    1) Contraception on demand, so pregnancy must never be a punishment for engaging in sex.
    2) Frank, age-appropriate sex education as a vital part of the school curriculum, explaining the very real dangers of sex (AIDS, HPV, pregnancy risk, etc).
    3) Continued emphasis on the male's permanent financial responsibility for pregnancy and other sexual outcomes. Sex must be portrayed as a significant life-affecting decision.

    Measures of this sort will surely reduce the overall abortion and unwanted pregnancy rates.

    It's still up to parents to impart a responsible sexual ethic to their children, but the public health aspects must be independent of that sometimes neglected obligation.

  143. You make some great points and people who are really pro life should be getting behind these things. These are all areas where both sides should be able to come together to achieve positive results.

  144. Thank you, Gov. Cuomo.

  145. Brave a thousand times over to Gov, Cuomo for his courage in bucking the tide of woman-haters in state legislatures across the country, who take such a sadistic and gleeful pleasure in forcing women to pay what those self-righteous neo-Puritans consider "the wages of sin," by forcing them to bear unwanted children!

    If Gov. Cuomo ever runs for national office, he's guaranteed my vote thanks to his stand on this issue.

  146. Judith, Cuomo is the Govenor of NY State not Texas. He ain't bucking nothing in this part of the country or any of the other large electoral college states.

  147. Just what the world needs,more dead babies. Our society is doomed . Sit back light up a smoke have a drink and enjoy the ride.

  148. What part of "seven billion people is five billion too many" do you not understand? Earths ecosystem is like financial capital; it's only capable of a limited quantity of earnings each year. Today, we're eating that capital.

    Cuomo for Pres in 2016.

  149. Thank goodness there are sane heads running some states in this country! If only there were more like Cuomo.

  150. May God have mercy on his soul.

  151. I'd be more inclined to say that when he's elected President.

  152. This is not about 'lazy' women waiting callously to seek a late-term abortion. It is about danger to mother's health if the pregnancy were to continue or the chances viability for the fetus.

    A mother whose health is in danger in this case makes a difficult choice (much like 'Sophie's Choice'. It should be left to her, her family and her physician.

    There are mothers who would sacrifice their lives or health so the fetus may live (at 24 weeks chance of survival of the fetus is about 40%, with possible life long health problems). There are mothers who would sacrifice the fetus for any number of reasons. Eg. Fetus has abnormalities, or her other children need the mother, etc.

    The Governor wants to legally protect the doctors when they care for the patients facing such dilemma. I think is right.

  153. Governor Cuomo is a hero! If we take gender out of the discussiponthen we are discussing the right for any person to choose the actions taken on their own body. Governor Cuomo has the courage to think clearly and to protect an individual's right to control what is done to their own body.

  154. This blatant separation of church and state is an outrage !

    If this continues, religion will become as irrelevant as it already is.

  155. The comments here are full of people (mostly men, it seems) wondering why women take so long to make up their minds about whether to have an abortion. The main reason for late-term abortions is that medical issues sometimes occur late in pregnancy that threaten a woman's health or life, or severe medical issues with the fetus are not identified until then. And, as long as state laws prohibiting late-term abortions are on the books, doctors and hospitals are going to hesitate performing a procedure that could save a woman's life.

    So many of these comments talk about fictional women who "waited" to make up their minds until they were in their 3rd trimester. Do any of you who oppose abortion rights have any actual statistical evidence that there are late term abortions performed that don't involve the health of the mother or the fetus? Or that there are doctors out there performing abortions on perfectly healthy women with perfectly healthy & viable fetuses? The decision to have an abortion, like any medical decision, is a private medical decision between a patient and a doctor, and should be kept that way.

  156. It's about time there was a politician who is courageous and capable enough to deliver what the majority want rather than trying to placate the megaphone minority.

  157. Don't delude yourself. This is all about Cuomo working to shore up his liberal quals in anticipation of a primary fight in 2016. There is not a single bit of principle involved....

  158. Works for me!

  159. Cardinal Dolan needs to find the equivalent righteous indignation to oppose and eliminate the Catholic Church's immoral and dishonest ban on contraception that he brings to the abortion wars, where the lines of integrity are far less clear and much more difficult for intelligent people of good will to discern. A more responsible and widespread availability and use of contraception would substantially reduce the number of good women who are confronted with the extremely difficult question of personal abortion. As I have previously communicated directly to both Cardinal Dolan and Pope Benedict, the Church's fundamentally dishonest opposition to contraception has risen, since the global rise of AIDS, from simple legerdemain to an affirmative evil.

    No one can factually, logically and with any shred of integrity hold the position that "natural law" makes it morally permissible to control the body's functions with hypertension and psychotropic medications, while those who take birth control pills are condemned to hell. Or to maintain that wearing a glove to ward off the cold is wise, but wearing a condom is intrinsically evil. Such a patently immoral and recklessly irresponsible teaching is just the kind of thing that made it necessary for the Catholic Church to turn to the incomprehensible evils of the Inquisition and its torture and execution vehicles. Benedict understands all this but does not have the courage to act on it; that is one untold reason he has chosen to resign.

  160. If you have read Freakonomics you know that legal abortion in the aggregate is simply a form of welfare and prison control disguised as "women's right to choose".

  161. Possibly it is. If unwanted children are not born, there will be fewer hopeless people on welfare and fewer perps in prison. Makes sense to me.

  162. It's called "kill the poor". Some people, like Cardianl Dolan, think it"s immoral. Others, like Ravenna below, say it works for them.

  163. In the middle of my seemingly healthy pregnancy, at our 20 week ultrasound (which actually took place during my 21st week) we found out that our baby had a congenital heart defect in which only two chambers developed normally. The other two were basically non-existant. The prognosis was grim but there was a chance that with multiple heart surgeries (starting immediately after he was born) and eventually a transplant he may have lived into his teens. Most patients with this particular condition don't make it to adolescence. And so, in the midst of our utter devastation, with doctors coming at us from every direction and constantly being reminded that we only had a few days to make an impossible decision we decided to let our sweet boy go. It was the most horrible, traumatic experience I hope I'll ever have to go through. And it was made more difficult by the constant pressure we felt to make a decision. I'm not saying our choice would have been different if we'd had more time in which to make it. But I do feel that we would have been more able to explore all our options without the deadline we were given constantly looming.

  164. You use the term "our." It means you had support from a husband or family. Without the support of an extended family, including a supportive or even existing husband, the likelihood of multiple major surgeries is more than a single mother could handle on her own.

    And what if the mother of this child with this horrendous congenital heart defect has no health insurance? Once again in our society the issue of simply being able to afford these multiple surgeries is present. There are health insurance companies that may not even cover such surgeries if they deem that such surgeries wouldn't even be covered.

    Every situation is different.

  165. Your story, Roberta, should be read -- and throughtfully read again -- by every person commenting here.

    (I hope you're going to be OK.)

  166. Every situation is different. And while there are many different types of congenital heart conditions, most of them can be successfully managed with surgery. My son is a pediatric heart surgeon. And in the hospital where he practices no parent - married or single - is without emotional support during the intital and any subsequent surgeries. As for the issue of cost, it is not paramount in most of the outstanding children's hospitals across America. While it is regrettable if some prospective parents feel time restrains in this life and death matter, the option to have or not have a child has little to do with modern cardiac medicine.

  167. It is not remarkable that many with psychiatric problems including apparently psychiatrists become emphatic and irrational on the subjects of gun control or a woman's sovereignty over her own body. Since we so often have to suffer off topic comments regarding abortion when the subject of gun control is raised, it is not inappropriate or off topic to pose this question. Shooting someone else, or posing the threat to do so and intimidating women through actions and legislation from terminating unwanted pregnancies seem to be flip sides of the same coin, mostly tossed in the air, it would appear, by men.

  168. Just another move that goes against the huge amounts of biblical believing citizens by an elected top official who lives with a woman apart from marriage. Is it any wonder why our nation is being propelled towards social disintegration? Soon, if he would have it, we will need a law to walk across the street.

  169. Charles, whoa...are you saying Mr.Cuomo lives with a woman who is not his wife? Gosh! Criminy! And now you say that worse is yet to come?

    Maybe even -- and do keep this from your childrens' eyes -- people doing "it" with the lights on! Jeepers.

  170. I wonder how many of the "huge amounts of biblical believing citizens" in sin. Sin I tell you! And indeed, there are laws against jaywalking so your Armageddon must have already started...

  171. I have worked in public health. "The mother's health" is so broadly defined that it may as well not be defined at all. An abortion doctor asks the woman if she would suffer emotional or physical harm should the child be carrier to term. If she says yes, the doctor signs off that the abortion was done to protect the health of the woman. An abortion doctor is not a mental health professional. If the abortion is for medical reasons then those reasons should be spelled out and that doctor should be willing to put their license to practice medicine on the line for making assertions that take the life of an offspring (fetus if you speak Latin). Furthermore, a woman is only a “mother” if she gives birth to a child.

  172. Hunter, then you're saying all the millions of women who have adopted children are not mothers. Have you sent them notices?

  173. My adoptive mother is going to be very sad to hear this.

  174. First of all, I remember my own birth. I remember crying out for help when pressure upon me started to suffocate me. I could not fight the last strong sink of my body, like going down a toilet. What followed was a prayer to "God," to preserve and resurrect me.

    Children have rights too. Women have rights and responsibilities, as do men.

  175. That is amazing.

    I do believe that everyone will answer to "God", one way or another. But taking choice from women is not the answer. Whether or not to terminate a pregnancy is the choice a woman must make in her own life path; it is not up to the State or Church to determine.

  176. This change, counter intuitively, may actually help avoid abortions and late term abortions!
    In my own anecdotal case we were forced to make last minute, spur of the moment decisions about terminating at 4 months because the time limit was coming up. My husband and I were forced to choose an abortion rather than a wait and see attitude since the law would have forced me to carry an unviable fetus to term had we waited one more week!! 12 doctors told us to terminate! Miraculously, when I went to have the abortion a new doctor looking at the ultrasound told us that the fetus was healthy, albeit at risk, and we ran out of there with tears in our eyes and my daughter is 15 years old now, healthy and sharp as a whip. She was, however, born two months early after all! Weighed 1.15 lbs !

    Changing this law will help many women have more time to make the right decision with all the available information.
    Thank you Gov. Cuomo!

  177. Women find it amusing that certain men are so thoroughly embedded in masculine hypocrisy and double standards. It's only women's ability to totally deflect the male desperation to save men from themselves that has advanced civilization.

    I had a wonderful female mentor back in the day. She had the most astute opinion of why more men than women are desperate to sink Roe v Wade. Men do no like giving something to a women she may not want or need. Least of all a pregnancy.

    Men can spill their seed the world over and then walk away as if their job is done. The woman who dares to reject his "gift" is the woman he will fight tooth and nail to force to go through nine months of pregnancy and then when his gift is produced, walk off as if he has no responsibility.

    President Obama may be remembered for many things. One thing women will always remember him for was something he said in his last SOTU speech. You don't become a man because you can create a child. You become a man when you can raise one. Some men simply do not get this.

  178. Well said.

  179. I commend the governor for this.
    Noone, doctor or patient, should have to consider legal consequences to save their own or anothers life.
    While we're making changes, I'd like minors to be able to get abortions without their parent's permission and the procedure, birth control and after care, paid for by the state.
    Better than paying for it later when unwanted children end up in the foster care system, group homes, juvenile detention and incarceration.

  180. These are growing babies just like every single human on this earth was at one time . Many of us were surprises, inconveniences, even perhaps tragedies to the family in which we were born. But born we were and here we are with all of our human powers and imperfections and for some reason, we have decided we can stand in omnipotent judgement over the little defenseless lives that are also surprises, inconveniences and even tragedies. And without any reason whatsoever we can choose to sweep them out, suck them out or rip them out and end their lives undoubtedly with great pain and suffering! It is inhuman and extremely selfish and legal or not, I believe there will be atonement for these travesties by doctors and mothers and even fathers alike - murder is murder. We will be held accountable and all the laws in the land will not change the fact that we are CHOOSING TO END a life and we will be held accountable. Make no mistake.

    Let these innocent babies live that we are killing, please... Keep what has been created as sacred and protect these lives. Unless under extreme threatening conditions to the mother, or perhaps to their own development and quality of life- allow these children the chance to live, to laugh, to learn and explore, to contribute to all of us here and most importantly , to love their life as much as we love ours!

  181. In the old days, weak or deformed newborns were put out on the mountaintop to die. In China newborn girls are often tossed aside to die. Open your eyes. Abortions and killing of newborns is going to happen. Criminalizing it will simply drive it underground. But it will still exist.

    How many "innocent babies" have you adopted lately, by the way?

  182. Allow them what kind of lives, as funding for education, health care and welfare are cut so we can buy guns, tanks, and planes.

    There is more to "living" than respiration, and it's glaringly obvious that the "Right To Life" crowd doesn't bother to support children once they're born.

  183. Since Como can't seem to bring any type of business back to NY State because of it's rediculous laws and regulatuions, let's try to increase out of state abortions!! Which by the way I am all for, but I wish we could get some industry and energy produciton back.

  184. You are correct not every pregnancy is perfect which is the primary reason that responsible adults take into account the various possible outcomes of intercourse.
    On the other hand, all abortions are final with lingering mental and health issues to the woman while her doctor cashes her check and enjoys life.

  185. Not every woman who has an abortion has lingering mental and health issues. For some it is a necessity. I know a few women who had abortions and they don't regret it in the least. It was the best decision for them, and when they are ready to have children they can take care of, it will have been the best decision for those children.

  186. Tony, what do you know about the mental and health issues of women who have had abortions? Bubkas, I'd bet.

    My own relieved me of intolerable anxiety, physical discomfort, and a chance that I'd live in poverty for years.

    And did you take "into account the various possible outcomes of intercourse" when you -- say -- decided you'd like to bed whomever, whenever?

  187. As opposed to Obama, who at least has some philosophy, Cuomo looks to me increasingly and opportunist, who simply looks for ways to distinguish himself from other liberals without any coherent pattern. I think people will see this eventually, and his national ambitions, such as they are, will falter.

  188. As long as he's doing things intelligently and fairly, what is wrong with having "national ambitions?" A humble politician is not necessary; one with an understanding of government, of his constituents' needs, is.

    We women like what he's doing.

  189. I am 67 and was adopted
    I just found my birth family and discovered from my half brother that my BIRTH mother (deceased) was adopted.
    Neither had the option of birth control and abortions at those times were all 'back room'.
    Would I,knowing what I do, now have an elective abortion for non-medical reasons
    ? NO.
    Nor will I impose my views on any other woman.
    It should be between a woman,her conscience/God and her doctor.
    The less the government has to do with a woman's reproductive options,
    other than to keep them legal the better

  190. Could some of those commenting here perhaps be exercising their God-given right to be hypocritical? I refer to those who are (rightly) outraged at Republicans who pandered to their base in the 2012 presidential primary and general elections, yet shout hosannas when Gov. Cuomo panders to his party's base in anticipation of the 2016 presidential primaries. Brood of vipers indeed...

  191. As a physician, I am completely uninterested in what political activists on the right think about this issue, I have always advised my patients to do what is medically necessary and best for them and their families.

  192. Really Java Master, The doctors that I know who make a good living performing abortions call it the cash cow procedure that allows them to live a good life.

  193. The pro-life movement always complains about the judiciary legislating. "Leave it to the legislature and the political process". Now many of these posts complain about a statutory solution arguing it unnecessary given the decision and make- up of the Supreme Court. Make up your mind.

    Moreover, I haven't read criticisms of those legislatures which have restricting abortion rights. Did they ever argue, "don't bother taking this issue up as we are working to overturn Roe v. Wade".

    This issue is solely between the woman and her doctor. This law makes infinite sense. That our Governor is willing to put his views out there to be debated shows real leadership and courage. Most try to hide from such issues. New York, once again, will be in the forefront of reproductive rights. We should be very proud.

  194. Bravo Cuomo! Too much dialogue is based on church propaganda that a fertilized egg is a human being. It is every woman's right to determine the outcome (literally!) of her own body. (If someone considers abortion a "sin," let her shun the practice, but nowhere does she have the right to deny the choice to anyone else.) When religious groups organize to influence legislation, they should lose that part of legislation that guarantees them a tax-free status! I support choice.

  195. And I definitely support taxation of any and all religious groups that presume to interfere with secular government, starting with the Catholic Church and Evangelical Christians.

  196. NO, The "Tide" is Changing - "..Cuomo Bucks Tide..." - Understanding is Changing, The Tide is Changing towards a "Flooding Full Tide"!
    The Old Mountain Goat

  197. When is a fetus a citizen, subject to the protection of the state?

  198. That's the wrong question to ask. We will never pinpoint A time after which the fetus becomes a 'human' or a citizen. The question is whether a woman has authority over her own body. Many might not like this comparison, but a fetus is a parasite, albeit one that can eventually become independent. We can say that the fetus has rights, but we must decide who has greater authority.

  199. In my view, self awareness qualifies personhood, and personhood qualifies the right to protection of interests. While I don't expect the law to recognize fetal personhood any time soon -- or perhaps never -- that would apply to a the viable fetus who has reached self awareness. Prohibiting late term abortions except for serious medical reasons is a way around that. I hope Governor Cuomo's legislation will not weaken the protections now in place for babies in their third trimester, if not earlier.

  200. Your Eminence: You should excommunicate this guy today. He has blood on his hands.

  201. No, hocus bulds authority, to power, to arrogance, the greatest sin. Follow Him, not Them.

  202. Today's Old Deal Democrats: if it's an old "Wedge issue" (so called in 70s and 80s when Republicans used these issues to distract from economic issues) then the Dems will talk about em till the cows come home with the Republicans.

    If its about the money, keep all the Republicans Far, Far right policies.

    These are two Wall Street parties. Any New Deal Democrat would recognize this objective fact.

  203. Suffering is forcing a woman to have a baby she doesn't want. Some would call it tyranny.

  204. Governor Cuomo wants to legalize late-term abortions, and control guns. Hmmm ... sounds contradictory. Is he about protecting lives or seeking votes?

    Abortion is not a woman's "healthcare right". She is the host of another human being. That was decided and designed so by God (or if you don't believe in God, you can call it "Nature"). The same God ("Nature') that pro-abortion people are fighting and cheating (guess who "wins" at the end). It's plain murder. Of the worst kind!

  205. You obviously dont get the point. You believe abortion is wrong, fine. What you dont get to do is dictated someone else's life because of your beliefs. If your looking for a real contradictory opinion, talk to a anti-abortionist pro-death penalty advocate. Thats real murder!

  206. Your God doesn't make the rules for anyone but you.

  207. Equal protection under the law requires that we also enshrine the choice of the fetus to terminate the mother. Consider that some of these mothers may be deformed, disabled, never able to live fulfilling lives. Why should a bunch of men in Washington be telling America's fetuses what to do with their own bodies?

    Really though, why are liberals defending the ultimate expression of conservatism, the absolute, life-and-death authority of parents over children, who are treated as a dehumanized underclass? Liberals should be fighting for more rights for the unborn, not less. Next liberals will be supporting the stoning at the city gates of disobedient children. Although probably with this bunch it will be extended to children and husbands. They're all just bunches of cells that came from a woman, anyway.

  208. Apparently in Ireland a while ago the rights of a fetus to terminate the life of the mother were carried out, and a young wife died because of the doctor's refusal to abort the already dead fetus. Now are you satisfied?

  209. Hmmm. Where does one draw the line between sarcasm and Freudian slip? Regardless, this is the logical extension of the power of an authoritarian state over a woman's body: her autonomy and her well-being mean nothing. Thanks for clarifying that.

  210. Any law that restricts a woman's ability to get an abortion is written on the premise that women are somehow incapable of making rational, moral, ethical, and above all personal decisions, and that the government is somehow graced with a greater ability to manage a woman's personal life than the woman herself. This is pure Victorian era, sexist thinking regardless of where you stand on abortion as an act. Women must be allowed to make this decision and accept the consequences thereof, period. Any attempt to limit abortion is done from the premise that a woman is somehow incapable of making important personal decisions without the guidance of a strong, superior, government hand to ensure this frail, incompetent soul doesn't stray from a "moral" path through her inferior cognitive ability.

    The only way to reduce non-medical abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancy. And the only way to prevent unwanted pregnancy is through strong education for girls of all classes, a strong foundation of ethical teaching to show young women that their lives are valued as strong contributors to society, access to consistent birth control and the knowledge on how to use it, and opportunity for economic independence.

    Forcing a woman to carry an unviable fetus to term, or risking her life because of far along in pregnancy she is, in a dogmatic, inflexible execution of "a culture of life," is patently ridiculous.

  211. Just how do these late term fetuses come to be "terminated"? Perhaps the readers would like to consult some medical textbooks. One method is to use forceps to crush the "calvarium". There is no way to "terminate" a viable fetus without doing violence to it ( early induction of a viable fetus will lead to a live birth). Do these fetuses have no rights whatsoever?

  212. Whose "rights" are more important...those of a grown human being, a wife and probably a mother, or those of a fetus? A fetus is not a baby until it is born.

  213. "Mommy" - so you know the excitement and worry and wonder of wanting a baby, and closing in on the third trimester and just being unable to wait to meet your baby! I'm glad you've never known the horrible experiences of the women I've known who've received the heartbreaking news that their dream of a baby is not to be.

    It's heartless to take away anyone's choices in these darkest hours based on *your* beliefs and how *you* think you might handle such a challenge as being told your baby will be born to maybe live a few, painful minutes and you will walk out of the maternity ward with no one in your arms.

  214. No, mommy in Indiana, fetuses do not have legal rights. Until they are born, and breathe and so on, they are not alive.

  215. What people don't seem to comprehend is the definition of "Health of a woman". My understanding is it includes the physical, mental and financial health . As the current law now stands if a mother faces life threatening complications an abortion is allowed. Should a viable baby be "terminated" up the the date of the actual delivery because the mother is mentally unstable or has decided she can't afford to raise the child? This is not a religious issue, but an issue of right and wrong.

  216. You would force a baby on a woman who was mentally ill?

    Your notion of health includes the state of one's bank account?

    Have you ever -- ever -- seen evidence that a fetus was aborted on the predicted date of the delivery?


  217. To Rea, Yes the nebulous definition of Health includes emotional health which I believe would fall under the excuse of " I can't afford to have this baby, or I would have to leave my job if I have this baby,". The mental health excuses could consist of " I just can't deal with the stress of having another baby right now or I have three children now and can't deal with this, I think I may go crazy" None of these feable excuses should allow the termination of a viable baby.
    In regards to an abortion being performed on the predicted day of delivery, you may want to read what the new law requests, which is just that.

  218. The point is that Cuomo is removing it from the penal system and moving it where it belongs - the health system. So it is not a crime!
    The Right would like to put women and doctors who perform abortions in jail.

  219. Cuomo for President!

  220. Might as well finish the destruction of our Republic and make it a true democracy like Egypt, Turkey, Syria.....or Iran and just forge the ballots!!

  221. Well, the Republicans are certainly working towards that route (eg. gerrymandering to win the House and perhaps one day the presidency; voter oppression - (9 hour long lines to vote, misleading information, etc)).

  222. Glad to see a politician who wants to regulate banks and guns vs. vaginas.

  223. Several years ago, my neighbor was pregnant with their second child. They were thrilled about their upcoming birth. Then she went in for her 20 week ultrasound. There was a problem. The baby had formed but the skull and brain had not. There was no brain at all and death was certain for the child even if she carried to term. They were beside themselves in grief and what to do next. They decided to carry the baby to term and the baby died within an hour.
    The purpose of this comment is that she HAD a choice, the mother that is. To carry to term or abort after 20 weeks of gestation. We cannot and should not remove that right of her and her husband to make that decision.
    Thank you Gov Cuomo for recognizing that doctors should not be criminalized for protecting the mother or ending the life of the child that is not viable.

  224. No one wants to have an abortion, just as no one wants to have a heart bi-pass. People decide that they need these procedures. Women have a right to decide what to do with their bodies.

    For those who don't want abortions at any stage of pregnancy, let us work to reduce the reasons women choose abortions. Promote realistic sex education in schools, access to birth control, child care particularly for students so they have an opportunity to continue their own education and job plans encourage adoption of American babies and provide assistance to families struggling to raise children.

    We should reduce abortions by reducing the reasons for abortions not by treating women as criminals.

  225. What a very sane, thoughtful response. Thank you.

  226. I marched for women's rights back in the never occured to me and my co-marchers that the females would lose their ability to take responsibility for contraception and used abortion as their method of choice!!!!

  227. Let us also adequately fund the research needed to prevent serious physical defects in developing fetuses.

  228. I support Gov Cuomo, Abortion decisions should be between a woman, her doctor and her god---period. The legislature must stay out of a woman's uterus--they have no business being there.

  229. Thank you for your courage and your respect for women, Governor.

  230. Amen

  231. First he introduced the strictest gun laws, and now this, finally a politician with guts to implement common sense laws!! Mr. Cuomo, please run for president in 2016!!

  232. We have abortion as a "choice" and we wonder why people don't respect life any more.
    We glorify violence in our media and we wonder why children grow up with violent fantasies and then act on them.
    We allow and even encourage families to fragment and we wonder why our children have no purpose.
    We slowly push reverence for God and even a higher power out of our classrooms and are baffled when our children lack morals and make "bad choices".
    We have abortion as a "choice" and we wonder why people don't respect life any more.

    40% of pregnancies in New York city end in abortions. That's a lot of "bad choices" for our world.

  233. I'd like you to know, Labrador, that the great majority of the population of our prisons have reverence for your god (and a "higher power," whatever that is.) On the other hand, you can hardly find an atheist in the cells.

    My point? Obviously, that we don't need religion to be moral. Equally, we women don't lose respect for life if we have abortions.

    (Where is the evidence you cite for the number of terminated pregnancies in New York City? I couldn't find it.)

  234. Thank you for the undeniable commentary.

  235. Thank goodness someone here has respect for human life.

  236. This type of decision -- a decision to support choice -- by a Catholic politician says to me that he's rising above politics and religion to care about some of the most vulnerable in his constituency and recognize that some struggles are preventable and should be supported.

    I like to think that he spent a month with single mothers -- and their children -- and recognized that their struggle can be changed with compassionate laws.

    You can say they're not compassionate for the fetus, but in that case, I'd like to know what you're doing for those mothers and their children to make sure their lives are easier and that they can have a future to look forward to. I meant YOU, not some social services agency, public, religious or otherwise. Are you lobbying for higher minimum wages that can support a family? Are you tutoring those children while their mothers are working the second or third job? Are you going after the father to squeeze some money out of him so the child and mother can have a life beyond subsistence?

  237. First, he's not Catholic, and yes, I am doing charity work.

  238. Since 1973, the far right and radical religionists have sought to regain control over women's behavior and their bodies (Of course, the far right has absolutely no concern for the well-being of children as is evident in their lack of concern for social welfare legislation!). If men could get pregnant, then urologists' offices would become holy shrines! The governor of New York has many good ideas and this is one of his best!

  239. Once again I am reminded why I am so glad I don't live in the largely morally corrupt Northeast and specifically New York state and NYC. Granted, many people have access to much and opportunities abound in certain fields of endeavor but the selfishness, greed, "what's best for me attitude" and apparent lack of compassion for the "least of those" that don't have a voice is just overwhelming. At some point people must take take responsibility for their actions and be held accountable. We can be assured it won't start in New York.

  240. This law isn't about "morally corrupt people"; it's about things like keeping a woman from carrying an unviable fetus to term. I'm not sure on what you base your morals, but it sure isn't any Christianity that Jesus would recognize.

  241. Hate thy brother because he is a different color. Hate thy sister because she refuses to suffer. Hate Billy because he loves Bubba.

    Oh yes, YOUR "what's best for me" attitude must be enforced on everyone.

  242. This is really heartening, not only for what it says about Cuomo's commitments to women's rights, but also about his broader willingness to be proactive in the struggle for humane and reasonable policies. The inevitable cry of outrage from the right should be heard in the context of their similar cries of outrage over his recent moves toward gun control. Both policies are thoughtful attempts to protect the lives and the quality of lives of individuals.

    I hope this new effort passes, but even if it doesn't, it changes the debate from simply bemoaning Republican efforts to reduce women's reproductive rights, toward actively protecting those rights. There is always a concern about mobilizing a right-wing back-lash but that fear can't be allowed to immobilize us for ever. It's time for our own back-lash against the increasingly oppressive policies that prevail in so many states.

  243. This is NOT about abortions for women who wake up one day at 30 weeks and decide they don't want the baby anymore. This is for women who find out late that their baby is so deformed it won't live outside the uterus, is already dead or the mother's health is in danger, eg, with eclampsia. Genetic abnormalities are picked up early with amniocentesis but structural problems, eg, encephalitis are not detected until after 20 weeks and sometimes later depending on when the doctor performs a detailed ultrasound. So, for everyone who thinks women wake up and decide that they just don't want a baby, I suggest you go back a re-read the proposal, read about how and when pregnancies can go so very wrong before you all leap to condemn women who make this very personal and painful decision.

  244. It is about time the legal battle is fully joined.
    Here’s hoping other enlightened states take up the challenge to expand women’s rights and to blunt the edge of the anti-abortion, anti-woman movement.
    As the conservative tide peaks, then ebbs, we need to push hard to expand such laws and liberate women so they can make decisions about their own bodies themselves.

  245. My 5 granddaughters will appreciate the courage of New York at protecting their life choices just as I did 50 years ago. Thank you, thank you. So many of us have worked to protect this freedom and right, and I fear to see it undermined.

  246. The bigger problem isn't abortion. It's control freaks always sticking their noses into people's personal business and attempting to override or blatantly make decisions for others.

    Red staters are notorious for their anti-abortion positions no matter how the Supreme Court ruled in Roe v Wade. This is the same brand of hypocrisy that in 2013 claims the Civil War wasn't about slavery but about "states rights." As if, that hides the reality of their real agendas.

    I find it immensely revealing that more men than women are anti-abortion. Government cannot possibly be viewed strictly through a masculine prism. Not when women are educated and fully financially independent.

    Free slave labor among the righteous red staters was considered more than acceptable. Now, they are back at their hypocrisy by attempting to make decisions for women and women's lives. Time to remind them to mind their own business.

  247. Interestingly, Eleanore, "free slave labor" is at the core of this issue as well. Reproductive rights for women means fewer desperate workers, which means higher cost of labor.

    It's always been about the cost of labor.

  248. I have read that most if not all late term abortions are performed to preserve the life and health of the mother or because the fetus is severely defective. I always wonder that the Republicans that are so opposed to state provided health care and support for those who cannot take care of themselves are also so opposed to abortion which preserves the health of women and eliminates profoundly deformed infants.

  249. The arguments against late-term abortion carry little, if any, merit. In fact, the notion that passing through the 'birth canal' accords some sort of sanctity to a creature is just as arbitrary. Surely, without constant assistance a newborn is no more viable than a third-trimester fetus. So, why not extend a woman's abortion rights well into ... let's say, a child's third year of life? True, infants are like baby harp seals when it comes to "cuteness" -- but that shouldn't be factored into the debate of whether a woman has the right to club, or not to club.
    Mirriam-Webster's definition of "abortion" may require a slight tweak to accommodate this new paradigm -- a minor inconvenience for the enlightened man (and woman). After all, adjusting parochial notions of what constitutes "right and wrong" in order to ease our journey through the busy day is the cornerstone of a civilized and evolving society.

  250. You are ignoring the fundamental difference between carrying a fetus and caring for an infant or toddler. A woman who cannot care for a young child has many avenues -- she can ask a relative to care for it, place the child up for adoption, put it in foster care, or, in the case of a newborn, relinquish it at a "safe haven." A pregnant woman can do none of these things -- she must carry the baby until the pregnancy ends. Unfortunately, not every pregnancy is a healthy one, and that is why abortion (and not toddler care) is and will always be a woman's health issue.

  251. The only party with any right to a voice in late term abortion of any other abortion is the pregnant woman seeking the procedure. Very few women do seek late term abortions. Their reasons for seeking them ought not to be mediated though religious dogma or bad metaphysics distilled into law.

    The only person capable of determining the pregnant woman’s well-bring it the pregnant woman. Gynocologists who refuse to provide medical services are in the wrong profession.

  252. You're right. The ethical gynos should switch to Mortuary Science.

  253. Pro-life is one of the most misguided efforts I've ever seen in this lifetime.
    It is an ignorant movement.
    Bravo, Governor Cuomo for inserting some sanity and a reasoned and principled stance for a much needed change from the norms of what we typically hear about day in and day out.

    Run for office if you wish to insert your influence, Cardinal Dolan.
    And pay taxes.
    Otherwise, keep your self-righteousness out of it.
    That goes too for all of you who feel compelled to order women to go to term in so many instances where it is simply pure evil to force them to do so.

    I have never once in my life ever known of a single case of a cavalier attitude regarding an abortion on the part of even one single female.
    It is a devastating enough situation as it is and doesn't need a bunch of moralizers making it even worse for women to cope with what is an already shattering experience as it is without any added stresses and obstructions to that choice.

    Courage in the face of such willful collective ignorance is refreshing to see on the part of Governor Cuomo. And that is the kind of leadership that will inevitably turn this now cowardly nation back into something that more authentically reflects our true national grit.

    Concern for the unborn seems to then transfer to a lack of concern for the now unwanted child forced to negotiate a world where they are constantly reminded that they aren't wanted and are considered a burden.
    That is just plain sick and hypocritical.

  254. Islam is just as opposed to abortion as the Catholic Church, but if you vented the sort of bile against that faith that you do against the Catholics, there would be a chorus of leftists screeching "islamophobe!"

    The double standard would be amusing if it weren't so vile.

  255. JMA, when "Islam" weighs in on this issue we'll entertain your boilerplate. Till then - nah.

  256. "I have never once in my life ever known of a single case of a cavalier attitude regarding an abortion on the part of even one single female."

    I have more than once, but thankfully it was almost always an early abortion. I didn't feel the same about a developed fetus who, unquestionably by the third trimester, could feel pain and elementary thought.

  257. I was adopted in 1953 as an infant and respectfully disagree with the governor. Abortion should not be easy.

  258. Mr. Devany, abortion is not an easy choice, but it should it be safely and legally available to those women who choose it.

  259. Why does it all come back to you?

  260. I assume that, as a fetus, you were viable throughout your mother's pregnancy, and that you were born with an intact brain and other organs so that you could remain alive. This means the change in the law wouldn't have applied to you.

  261. It's sad to see democrats run from Bill Clinton on the issue of abortion, who said, "safe, legal and rare. And now have turn it into legal and anytime you want one.

  262. "Anytime you want one"? The article says that the new bill would only "guarantee women in New York the right to late-term abortions when their health is in danger or the fetus is not viable."

  263. Why do you have such a poor opinion of women?

  264. One of the reasons anti-choice forces claim there is such a "high abortion rate" is the sheer number of middle and upper class women coming from out of state (those who can afford to), from more restrictive states to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

    That NY will put on the books, once and for all, that late term terminations, typically and rarely done under the most tragic of situations, will be legally available, is a continuing lifeline....that's right, a LIFE line.....for many women.

  265. Excelsior and ever forward too! No one should ever tell a woman what do with her body, period end of story. I don't care if it's an abortion, a tattoo, a sex change, or a doctor-assisted suicide. Laws against terminated pregnancies are deeply rooted in sexism and misogyny. As we transition into more of a progressive democracy, these laws will be challenged and erased.

    This will also give a boost to the economy of New York as women fly in to the state to get what they need to get done.

  266. Yes, I can see that women will flock to New York as the beacon of death. Be sure to put the Governor in the ads...

  267. Just another reason I'm very grateful to live in NY. Thank you Governor Cuomo!