I love "Finding Your Roots" and Dr. Gates as host. The information is remarkable as are the emotions expressed by the participants along with Dr. Gates' ability to elicit reactions from the guests. My favorite episode...Larry David and Bernie Sanders.
I'm delighted that Dr. Gates thinks M. Bloomberg would be a strong candidate against the man in the White House. I agree although I too was not happy with the Mayor's "Stop and Frisk"
policy and others. However, are any of the candidates without flaws? If Bloomberg is sincere in his apology, that may help.
1
In re reparations, Dr. Gates points to the fact that politically correct jargon can turn the Black Community into cultural "bullies" against Black Speakers. So can reasonable questions that touch upon reparations. Let's say that we could wave a magic wand and find the *perfect formula for Black reparations.
Are we then going to *ignore the history of White Europeans invading North, Central and South American in one long orgy of genocide, slavery, and land theft ? We definitely *had Native American slaves *building all of these oh-so-cute Spanish Missions down here in the U.S. Southwest, but the Catholic Church did not *call them "slaves", they called them "converts".
That entire genocide, from the time of Columbus up to close to WWI, is now estimated to have resulted in the death of 56 *Million Natives.
How do you put a price on the lives of 56 *million human beings ? How do you put a price on Real Estate that runs from the tip of Alaska to the tip of Argentina ?
One of the problems of attempting to "correct" history after the fact is just *that ! The incredible impossibilities of *scale.
For instance, take the Sacred Black Hills of South Dakota. If we were to pay reparations for that land, do we pay the Natives that *we stole the Black Hills from, (The Lakota People), or do we pay the people whom the Lakota stole the Black Hills from, (The Arapaho and the Northern Cheyenne ?
Reparations sound great, but maybe rewriting history is impossible in reality.
9
Mr. Gates presents a wonderful model for us in his civilized response to James Crowley. But the incident, and his analysis of it, shows just what 'systemic' racism does. Individual racism is rarely so deep that it can not be changed, even in former white supremacists. Most bigotry is fear driven. As Mr Crowley said, he was afraid. His training told him to be afraid. It's the system that must be changed, and that's why reparations, systemic change, is necessary.
Changing the system must be the goal, and that will begin with serious legislation, a group hug is not going to cut it this time. We could begin by offering college tuition as the core of reparations. And we could each of us begin by stopping to be afraid.
34
@Sera Excellent summary and comment. I would also add that. although Gates' near-endorsement of Bloomberg has its pragmatic aspect (never mind all the bespoke diversions here), I wish he would consider your systemic point and, having Sanders & Warren among his friends, further consider endorsing Sanders and urging Bloomberg to put his support behind Sanders.
A thought: can you imagine a Sanders-Bloomberg ticket?Think about it, Iowa.
6
I wish we had that tradition in Japan of declaring certain people"national treasures." In Japan they are people who are dedicated experts in traditional crafts, but in our country I think we revere people who show what we most value: dedication to our highest ideals of Americanism. Americans value integrity, hard work, intelligence, independence and, honestly, courage. Dr. Gates meets that criteria.
139
@Sues I think the Presidential medal of freedom is supposed to be that for us. We could make more of it if we wanted.
10
@Sebastian Interlandi now it is a truly personal gift by president Trump. I expect Trump to award it to Roger Stone next.
1
Dr. Gates proposes that all public schools be funded at the same level to provide equal opportunities. For your information, the country's largest school district, the NYC school district already does this. The entire state of New Jersey also does this. In fact, schools in depressed socioeconomic neighborhoods receive more funding than the other schools in a form of institutional affirmative action for schools.
What are the results? The results are awful: black and Hispanic students under perform just like they do in any other school districts. You can't fix parenting (or lack of it thereof) with school funding. And please don't shoot the messenger.
26
@Gabe And how long have those funding policies been in place? Two or three generations are required to start to undo real long-term disparities
7
@Allan Lindh
Sorry, but that is not true.
Look at immigrants to our country tat came from horrible circumstances. I’m thinking about Jews from Nazi concentration camps, Vietnamese, Russians from persecution, Chinese who were
treated terribly in China and then in America. The list goes on and on. These people recovered in the next generation.
11
@Gabe
sorry !sorry.
Your response indicates that funding alone can't fix the problems. Agreed.
That said, equal funding across the board would require changes in curriculum and a baseline standard that would need to be applied to all the schools in that particular system.
Equality.
E(quality)
EDUCATION (QUALITY)!!
I like what I did there.
3
Dr. Gates puts to the lie about race supremacy. He takes the time to think things through, and he is forgiving. How many Republicans even see him? Mr. Bloomberg is a landlord and he has raised rents time and again and ignored the plight of seniors struggling on Social Security. As president on day one Mr. Bloomberg would raise rent on everyone.
10
I'm white and I was ecstatic when the Barack Obama was elected President of the United States, and only lost my mind in sheer happiness when it happened.
And yes I am horrified by all the ugly and violent racism that has erupted from what seems like the majority of white America, who elected literally one of the worst presidents in the United States (the worse one was Andrew Jackson, who was trying to implement the final solution of Native Americans). Trump is not only a white supremacist, but a misogynist, traitor and xenophobe.
I really don't understand where all this never ending hate is coming and even Dr. Gates doesn't seem to have a full handle on it.
47
Henry Gates Jr. matters...
3
Thinking about whether any of the Democratic contenders from Friday's New Hampshire debate could out-bully Trump, I came up with a sad "no," though each one had a worthwhile idea. You say Bloomberg was giving out money under the table as if to highlight an ethical lapse. But Gate's comments on Bloomberg strike me like a lightening bolt. I wasn't even going to give Bloomberg a place at the table because he bought his way into the campaign. Now, contemplating bully meets bully, I'm going to give him full consideration.
10
@Judy
How about Competence meets Incompetence?
Very good piece. The only time I was put off by Mr. Gates was when he said Bloomberg would be the best choice to fight Trump. Actually, as a New Yorker, Bloomberg is the only one of the Democratic candidates, who I could not vote for. When he
was mayor, he basically erased anyone who was not a billionaire. I thought - is this really the city I've been living in for most of the past 60 years? It certainly didn't feel like it.
5
I had been fascinated by the "beer summit." This article was wonderful -- giving the rest of us insight into what happened. Gates himself is a complex personality -- but a real gift to American life. Sounds like Sgt. Crowley is a good guy, too.
7
Run for President. I think you understand what’s going on better than any Democratic candidate we’ve heard from. That would take much but you far exceed their grasp of issues.
8
Out of curiosity, I wonder what Professor Gates feelings are about Michael Bloomberg giving money under the table to pay for poll watchers in primarily black and Latino precincts in his last mayorality reelection bid when he was running against a black man.
3
@Steve
Bloomberg's not doing that. Nasty of you to suggest it.
1
Barack and Michelle drove "all of the white people" crazy? What the heck? Yes, indeed, some white people went crazy. But Obama didn't win twice despite all white people having voted for Republicans, he won twice, in part, because a whole lot of white people voted for him twice.
29
Dr. Gates could do with a bit more evolving. In the last paragraph of this interview he says: "I thought I was introducing structuralism." Well, I've got three college degrees but I had to look up structuralism. I read the definition but I still don't understand the term. It's complex and academic. I understand that that sort of language is necessary for a proper dialogue to take place among he and his peers. But in the NY Times... not so much.
6
@Jeff P - sincere grammar question: Why did you write "he and his peers" and not "him and his peers"? If "he" is correct, I am curious why it is so. Thanks.
1
What a brilliant man.
Thank you for evolving.
3
@Hisannah Have you yet?
There is a contradiction. Middle class blacks have doubled in number, he says. Upper-middle class blacks have quadrupled. Yet the white working class has no hope of their children doing better. “That’s over.” The later statement seems pessimistic. The guarantee of upward mobility was never there. It still exists as a possibility for all groups.
3
Although I have mixed feelings about Gates, I will say his class, African American Studies 101, was one of my favorite classes in college and was just as nuanced as you’d think. I wish everyone in this country, the world really, could take that class.
12
Fascinating man. But the thing that comes out so so clearly is this isn't a race war as much as a class war.
Thanks. I'll pass on Bloomberg. He is no one I want for President. He is rich, entitled and made some very serious mistakes turning the City into a shopping mall for the ultra rich. When I hear him speak I know he'll never be elected out in the Middle.
But I love the insights here even if quite a few of them come from a rich man who doesn't understand what it's like for the rest of us.
9
@mj So utilize the arguments?!
1
I am absolutely fascinated by Professor Gates' PBS program. The thing I believe we overlook in "Finding Your Roots" is the particular emotion subjects feel upon coming to grips with their ancestral parade. I cannot find anything comparable to it...it isn't love, hate, fear, jealousy, or any other emotion. When you look closely at the face of the individual, it is as if a completely new perspective on life has been bestowed upon them. I think this is something that has not been explored to the extent Professor Gates' program has revealed, and it should be studied. In fact, I hope he would consider doing a book on what he has learned from doing the show... not details like who someone's ancestors were, and all that, but rather how his guests reacted to the new knowledge they gained, and what it really means for a person to know their predecessors.
26
@KB
I really like your observation of the effect that Finding Your Roots has on the people whose roots are presented to them. It seems to redefine what ever they called their personal self as something a whole lot bigger and far less separated from history and culture. As William Faulkner expressed: "The past is never dead. it's not even past ." and that becomes visceral for the guests.
7
@KB What you are "seeing" is fulfillment of a Biblical prophecy made about 430 B.C.
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Malachi 4: 5-6 KJV
Step into any chapel of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints or ask any of the missionaries you see on the street. They will hook you up with a genealogist and sit you down at a computer and show you how to find your own ancestors.
Bloomberg apologized for stop and frisk. Come on Professor Gates, he didn't do that till he began to run for president. Not only did he institute the policy, Bloomberg defended it when it was challenged in a federal lawsuit.
I'm amazed that Mr. Gates could so easily blow off something that affected the lives of tens of thousands of black youths when he took umbrage at the police suspecting him because of his race.
8
Prof. Gates seems to spend more time among billionaires than Black people. How else to explain that a mere apology for Stop and Frisk, after years of zealous promotion, is going to soothe things over with Black people. I don't know if Bloomberg can go toe to toe with Trump. But the Russians can rest easy because with him at the top of the ticket the Black and progressive vote will be depressed.
6
I imagine that Dr. Gates was quite accustomed to being treated with the utmost respect everywhere he went, with town cars waiting at the airport to whisk him off to the fancy hotel he was being put up in by his hosts, and quite used to hobnobbing with the likes of Bloomberg and going to elite parties on Martha's Vineyard and the like. He didn't like some cop asking for his ID, and maybe he also thought that being ornery about it would give him some street cred.
4
@Caroline Just call Prof. Gates "uppity," as that's obviously what you mean.
12
@Caroline Are you meaning he got "uppity?"
3
Don't know if anyone else had this problem, but I tried to open the links within the article but couldn't. It would have been nice to read the article with the references as they help to contextualize and give fuller meaning to the discussion. Still, the article was insightful. Thanks!
10
I’ve read volumes on the arrest of Henry Louis Gates for “breaking into” his own house. This is the first time I’ve heard of the suitcase gambit, that house burglars bring empty suitcases to the scene and that this was a convincing sign of a robbery in progress. That the revelation comes from Gates himself is symptomatic of this man’s grace.
The beer summit retold in this interview is a little American classic.
31
I love dr gates
that's all I have to say about it
24
@Duggan Millard Sorry.
That ain't gonna get him to do your ancestry.
At least, not unless he does mine first. I'm sure that somewhere back there, I had some sparking, fascinating ancestors, quite unlike a dull ordinary like me.
I imagine Obama and Biden figured that between the two of them they could keep the two jerks from going at each other if things got out of hand.
I like how when pressed on why Gates thinks Bloomberg is the best candidate to beat Trump, he responds honestly - “I know him socially. We go to the same party on Martha’s Vineyard.” Social connections are indeed normally the reason someone might recommend a friend for a job over other more qualified candidates, but I’m used to the reason usually being more masked!
12
@Alex
Dr. Gates went beyond personal friendship. He said Bloomberg was tough and was able to stand up to Trump’s attempt to bully. He also felt he was a successful mayor.
15
Mr. Gates does important work on educating us at many levels. African-American is simply American history. The story needs to be told at a level that is factually correct and insightful, which is what Dr. Gates does brilliantly. The PBS series, "Many Rivers to Cross" is just one example. I particularly enjoy the series, "Finding Your Roots." It is fascinating to see the reaction of guests as they discover they have Jewish or African-American ancestors, or that their ancestors owned slaves. Anyone that thinks slavery or Jim Crow did not have a negative, adverse, cumulative impact that echoed down through the generations is just being intellectually dishonest.
25
As happens often with the distinguished Dr. Gates, this interview meanders into disparate topics that sometimes reflect him as less than credible. His value to Harvard & academia in general is unquestionable. It is equally important to acknowledge his crossover appeal particularly as regards his popular forays into Africa & those whete he decipheres the family trees of celebrities.
However, Dr Gates comes across to some as
egocentrically possessive of his assumptions about those parts of America that are black ...something about which his experience is limited. Perhaps this fact explains his behavior toward a cambridge police officer who would have had no trouble from any street-smart bostonian caught in such a compromising position as that uncovered by the "beer summit".
As telling is the embrace by gates of bloomberg, the democratic candidate for president, who unlike even deval patrick, most mirrors the obama aristocratic legacy to which gates aspires. There, in this man's mind's eye, being first, best, exclusive, perfect-to-a-fault is better than ever being black.
@Renee Walker
There is no "Obama aristocratic legacy." Knowing even an ounce of his biography would disavow you of that notion.
5
Gates is definitely tomming with his recommendation of Bloomberg. It is probably deliberate. He has a right to say anything he wants, and we should respect it.
2
@Paul Easton ` "Tomming"? What an incredibly obtuse and racist statement. Dr. Gates is black but also an individual. His statements about Bloomberg were pragmatic about the effect Bloomberg might have and his qualifications to lead, and he didn't ignore the issue of stop and search.
Dr. Gates is educated and has worked to achieve a better standard of living and increase his sphere of influence through dogged work. Isn't that the American dream? Are you resentful that perhaps you've fallen short of your own dreams? If so, please don't try to discredit someone who is achieving theirs.
8
Henry Gates for President! I'd be honored to have this man run the country. That fact that he doesn't want the job is even better.
27
I pray that people understand the importance of being open to a variety of viewpoints, even ones that are deemed unpopular. We should be able to have conversations without anger. Much of the conservative movement that is following Trump is a reaction to the people that don't want to hear anything they deem uncivil. People want to express themselves and not be afraid to make a mistake. It seems that Dr. Gates understands.
25
I've admired Dr. Gates since my own college days, and follow his work with interest and appreciation. An academic who can also speak to the quotidian experience of being human is invaluable.
18
Mr. Gates is a very accomplished person and I have watched many of his interesting "Finding Your Roots" programs. But, I don't think that he handled the situation with the policeman well. After a policeman has responded to a 911 emergency call of a possible burglary, or worse, it seems reasonable that a policeman would ask for some ID of the resident of that address for verification and to close the case. It would be against common procedure, to just take the word of whoever answered the door.
And since Mr. Gates had just resorted to breaking into his own home to get in, it would seem that Mr. Gates could have understood what generated the 911 call and thus the policeman's duty to respond to that call. If Mr. Gates had just handed over his license, so that the policeman could finish his inquiry, it would have ended right there.
But, Mr. Gates decided to take umbrage to that simple request, and then portrayed himself as the victim as well.
It was a disappointing to see a person like Mr. Gates, react as defiantly and obstinately, as he did that day, to a policeman who was only there to make sure Mr. Gates and his house were safe.
Mr. Gates may have been tired from his trip, but he managed to find the energy to be quite vocal and dramatic when in front of his house, turning a 911 call into national headlines.
There are certainly cases of police injustice, but Mr. Gates' encounter with a policeman responding to a call to check on Mr. Gates' property, was not one of them.
38
@Tuxedo Cat: I agree with every point you make. No one, but a man who knew Obama had his back. would have the nerve to be so obstinate to the police. Dr. Gates deserves praise for his work, but not for this incident in shaming a policeman. At the beer meeting, they expected the police to apologize, Dr. Gates never did.
8
@Tuxedo Cat It was probably for that very reason of being tired and worn from his trip that he responded so. I'm not sure he realizes yet that he policeman was doing him a favor by asking for ID.
9
@Tuxedo Cat But that is not how our system of justice is supposed to work. It is up to law enforcement to make a case, not for some citizen to prove that they are entitled to be in their own home. Why is an anonymous 911 call more credible to police than a man answering the door of his own home? Police have gone out on calls and killed people based on unreliable phone tips. They need to do their own investigating and not take the lazy way of harassing whomever a phone tip directs them to harass.
28
Thank you for this. Henry Louis Gates is a brilliant man and recognises that we are all complex and imperfect. I see from some of the comments below that people are making binary judgments about him and the fact he can see good and bad in people like Biden and Bloomberg. As long as we put everyone to our particular litmus test we are doomed to division.
32
"I spent a whole evening with Biden, and I liked him." This is the problem I see with Biden's 'likers.' Right now I don't want a President I like, I want a person who will win. Biden is very problematic. I'm a Black woman. It bothers me that he's banking on his affiliation with Obama to capture the Black vote. Meanwhile, his record, reaction to his record, and his present behavior are horrible. He was a pleasant number 2. He doesn't deserve to be the main guy.
38
I’m shocked. Mike Bloomberg? When you violate the constitutional rights of black and Latino youth 874,000 times an apology is not enough.
You don’t put your future in the hands of someone who thinks my liberty is a small sacrifice to pay so that white New Yorkers can feel more comfortable about a crime rate that was going down anyway and continued to go down even after the courts threw out stop and frisk.
I accept his apology but I’ll never vote for him. As my grandmother used to say, a word to the wise...
6
After the first wave of the crack epidemic crashed, more and more people realized they couldn't go down that path and hope to survive. So the epidemic waned, and crime rates plummeted. It happened organically.
Politicians were quick to take credit, touting their anti-crime initiatives. I'd love to hear Bloomberg and Giuliani apologize and admit that neither he (nor Giuliani) were the main factors in the crime reduction. That won't happen.
3
@Drspock Really, even if he's the Dem nominee, you won't vote for Bloomberg? Elections are multiple choice, not fill-in-the-blank.
2
Twittie will be delighted to read this (if it isn't too long for his attention span).
2
What exactly was going on when the power of law met with the arrogance of intelligentsia? Why was America in such a huff over Barack Obama’s heartfelt excoriation of the local police department? Would it have been as much of an issue as it was then that a black president had audaciously said what is clearly an unmitigated and irrefutable truth?
Of course this confrontation in the darkness of a New England night between a respected member of the intellectual community and a certainly not dim-witted police sergeant could have ended with the proper apologies to the clearly identified owner of the home. It did not end there because primeval instincts or shall we say alpha male behavioral patterns had taken over. Both men had engaged in the age old fight for male dominance. Suddenly, both were no longer separated by the chasm of social and educational differences. The man with the superior vocabulary resorted to the vernacular of the street and the one who once had taught racial sensitivity in the police academy cast aside all the knowledge about text book responses he was supposed to have implemented.
Barack Obama, in a Solomonian gesture, had invited to the White House the protagonists of an incident whose meaning and consequences by far transcended the silliness of its narrative.
He was right when he said that “two good people got snared in a bad moment."
31
Gates is a national treasure!
28
I think just being in the same room with Professor Gates for 5 minutes would make me feel 100% smarter. All he would need to do is say "hello."
28
If I was asked what well known person I would most enjoy having lunch with, it would be Dr. Gates.
26
I'm a huge "fan." But Bloomberg? Really? Reconsider?
6
@Jeffery Rozany If Bloomberg is the Democratic nominee (he's well down on my list) I will judge him against his Republican opponent and vote for the better person as I see them.
6
@Jeffery Rozany - Do you want to beat Trump? If so then don't vote for the person that you 'like' the best, but vote instead for the person who can take on the bully and beat him.
14
@Jeffery Rozany I hate the idea of Bloomberg also however he does seem to understand how to hit Trump in a way that will get to him. (When asked about two billionaires running for president, he asked who the other one was)
2
"I'm the victim!", apparently implicitly saying he demands special consideration wherever and whenever. That says it all. I personally know hundreds of "victims" who are not black. In three words, Gates asserts the reason why there has been such a backlash in the last 15-20 years.
4
@rl
He was. And he has a right to claim so . As do all of those women who were abused by Trump and others.
10
The professor seems unaware that the G.I. Bill excluded black soldiers. He's also pals with Michael Bloomberg, and twice suggests that the former mayor put his racialist attitudes and policies behind him. Bloomberg only apologized for stop and frisk when he decided to run for president. I doubt that the thousands of innocent victims of his police department's harassment can just "put it behind them", any more than the Central Park five. This typically American trope is a facile cliche on par with "fuhgeddaboutit", and unworthy of someone acknowledged as a leading academic. Gates certainly is correct in pegging Bloomberg as a bully, but after an eternity of 3 plus years of a bully in the White House, the last thing America needs is another bully from oligarch central. Bloomberg sold what was left of the soul of a great city to the real estate industrial complex, thereby increasing an already obscene number of people driven from their homes. There is no reason to believe that the arrogant former mayor will at some point have an epiphany and attempt to create a system of economic justice for all Americans regardless of color.
17
Brilliant. Enlightening info about the "beer summit" notwithstanding, Gates' summary analysis of our current political situation is astute: The rising economic expectations of each American generation is over. "When it’s interrupted, people go nuts." The promise of America is over, hence people "target, they objectify, they need a scapegoat." It's much easier to get angry at those weaker than you, eg immigrants, than to fight the powerful who are the actual perpetrators, To go from Obama to Trump is "a seismic revolution that is the result of a collapse of expectation" and points to the biggest failure of the Obama administration--to address & remedy the underlying issues of the 2008 economic collapse. Occupy Wall Street might not have been to your taste but because its message was suppressed--and let's not forget the brutality Mike Bloomberg showed in destroying the NY encampment and hence the movement--we are where we are today.
26
@Balthazar - Occupy Wall Street was a movement without a plan or a leader. It collapsed from it's own hubris and lack of leadership.
5
@WJ Absolutely! Right there with the anti-WTO mob.
The best NYT read in quite some time. And at so many levels. I especially appreciated the good professor's remarks concerning reparations, which I fully support. Thank you Professor Gates and Mr. Marchese for your thoughtful excellence!!
23
I think reparations are a logistical nightmare. I just don't think you can even know all the effects, let along quantify and compensate for them.
However, the underlying problem that reparations attempts to address is really a broader issue: inherited wealth and opportunity. To my mind, there is no moral or economic reason to allow wealth to be transferred to people that did not earn it.
If there were an inheritance tax of 95% beyond, say, 10x the average income, that money could be used to provide truly equal education to all kids.
I really think you should pay for what you get. Inheritance is the antithesis of that. I cannot understand why people defend it. You literally did not earn it, why do you feel entitled to it.
13
@J c Great comment, the part about inheritance. For some reason I have resisted this idea even though I have never expected nor planned to receive anything in the way of inheritance from my folks. (My mom is still living.) I have scraped together my personal estate so as to safeguard my retirement. It's an odd anachronism to hang onto, this belief in inheritance. So Jc's comment has liberated me from this anachronism. My "inheritance" was the upbringing my parents provided and their support during my college and university years. They also lent me a portion of the down payment for my first house. I paid it back to them in a year. Surely no one has a valid expectation of anything more.
Regarding reparations, I agree with Dr. Gates that affirmative action is a valuable form of reparations especially to the degree it allows young black people to enjoy the equivalent of the inheritance described above that I enjoyed.
16
@J c people defend it because they've earned the money, paid taxes on that money, paid taxes on the interest that their money earned, and want to pass it down. Why would you want that money taxed yet again?
Inheritance taxes will not fix education. No taxes are going to improve inequity and wealth disparity.
7
@Marie - Yes they earned the money, but would they have earned as much in another country? What percent of that earnings is due to stability of the American government and infrastructure provided by all Americans.
6
Thank you David Marchese and Henry Louis Gates for providing this 82 year old white guy with an outstanding lesson in American History. I felt like I was sitting in a class Listening to first class interview of a first class scholar. I am going to print out a copy of the interview so I can share it with my buddies when we gather for coffee. Bless both of you for this wonderful experience.
34
Great article, thank you NY Times. I agree with a lot, but would like to add that Trump won not just as a reaction to Obama but also because he is pro gun, anti women's choice, anti immigration, anti Obamacare, anti gay rights, anti regulation and pro lower taxes. He not only agrees with these ideas, he fights for them.
19
Thanks for this interview. I enjoy Dr. Gates’ tv show exploring the roots of his guests. In exploring my own roots I have learned lots of history. Visiting the places in Europe where most of my ancestors came from also has answered lots of questions about why they left. I think because some came pretty early 1634 might be the reason a small part of my dna is sub Saharan African. As far as reparations are concerned I agree withDr, Gates. But when talking about who should get reparation I do believe that women have also gotten a raw deal over the ages, though nothing comparing to blacks and native Americans of coarse of both sexes. And Affirmative Action has definitely helped.
8
I would hope Professor Gates would think twice about endorsing Bloomberg - or even talking him up - in light of his educational policy as mayor. If your (laudable) goal is equal spending per student in education from pre-K onward, Bloomberg is not your candidate. A Bloomberg presidency would supercharge charter schools which reward engaged parents who are able to negotiate processes to further their children's educations. They punish children of parents with less or less normative form of social capital.
18
Professor Gates is one of the most interesting and insightful people in America. Thank you for the brilliant complexity of your answers. However, I must respond to the idea that we need someone with a little bully in him to beat a bully (re: Bloomberg). We don't need to match Trump's tastelessness and violence. We need to transcend it through electing someone with a peaceful, nurturing and empowering vision of America. That is one place where Gates and I are diametrically opposed. Nonetheless, a fascinating interview.
25
@Elle Right. And I don't see the campaign as mostly a head-to-head competition between the two candidates in that sense. Trump will do his thing with schoolyard insults and lies, but the Democrat doesn't need to respond in kind. Or at least, doesn't need to respond directly, like on the playground, "standing up to the bully." The real goal is to reach the voters, to present visions and programs.
That said, I've never felt I understood American politics, so I don't know, maybe we need somebody who will go toe-to-toe...
2
@Elle
Agree with Gates. And Bloomberg is the one if you
are interested in peaceful, nurturing and empowering vision
of America. And he can beat Trump.
5
@Elle I think Professor Gates was trying to say that Bloomberg can be as tough as Trump and would be able to stand up to Trump. My impression was not that Bloomberg would be the same tasteless bully as is Trump. I have some policy differences with Bloomberg, but I have not heard anything about him that would lead me to think he would be anything like Trump.
7
Professor Gates, I can't thank you enough for your lively combination of "popular storytelling and factual scholarship." You have been one of the lodestars in my modest, but consistent, anti-racism work for decades. Your relentless commitment to the belief that all of us are complicated and flawed human beings (embedded in complicated and vexing social worlds) helps keep me grounded. I think that it's only from such an ontological bedrock that we can hope to dismantle the structures and practices associated with racism (or any other kind of oppression) with any kind of grace and compassion.
35
I admire Prof. Gates a lot. He appears to be a good man. His views on the tensions between racial and class issues are self-aware and smart. But I can't help thinking--this is a guy who flies on the private plane of his good friend the billionaire. He knows Bloomberg "socially," and favors him as a candidate. He's a member of the ruling class, and it shows in his politics. And in that, class totally trumps race.
47
I love this man.
Super fan.
37
"The signifying monkey" is a good book. It got Gates tenure. But it also misrepresents a fundamental truth: Gates says that history held the black man lowest on the chain of being because he had "no literature." To an extent that was a valid point, But lowest on the rung, at least as far as Enlightenment philosophy was concerned, were deaf people--who not only had no literature, but no language even. As Condillac said about Descartes, had he been born deaf he would have "walked on all fours." Too bad Gates didn't have anyone deaf on hsistenure review panel.
10
I'm not trying to be a wiseacre when I say - now interview Sgt Crowley. I genuinely think it would be a fascinating bookend to this piece to ask him similar questions.
61
@JeezLouise Sgt. Crowley is not a public figure or a scholar. This interview was about more than Prof. Gates' arrest. There is no reason the general public would be interested in Sgt. Crowley's opinion on Democratic candidates, reparations or public school reform.
5
@silver sandbox I am interested.
8
@silver sandbox Why not? Doesn’t have enough “Degrees”?
2
Well, a nice surprise.
I have not heard much from Gates before so I expected the same old, party-line, "woke," facts-ignored opinions and attitude that we so often get from racial, religious or political thought leaders.
Nope --rational, reasonable, objective. I am a fan.
60
A very interesting interview that made me want to read all the HLG books. I only wish it lasted longer.
33
I wish he talked about his appearance on The Watchmen.
5
Professor Gates, don't know if you read The Comments section for your article but if you do I think you will get a kick out of my reply. I am a retired NYPD Lieutenant (1969-93). Got a good belly laugh when I read the conversation Crowley and yourself had before the beer with Obama, "this thing is a nightmare". I know Glen Hutchins, he went to Harvard with one of my best friends and he has been out fishing with me. Lastly don't know if you remember but I met you when you were in a wheelchair (broken foot?) getting on to an airplane in New York a number of years ago. You asked the gate attendant if there was time to pick up a paper. They said no and I told you you could have mine when I finished, which I did. Hope we meet one day. I'm sure we have good experiences to share.
56
Very interesting article. Dr. Gates is an enlightened and intelligent person who continues to contribute to the public discourse in an important way. I appreciate his depiction of Bloomberg as being tough and smart, capable of taking on the bully we have in the WH...
49
@EM Dr. Gates shares these attributes with Trump; they're both liars and arrogant bullies.
2
Finding your roots is one of my favorite shows.
But it’s fault is not the hobby horse of exceptionalism— which is the hobby horse of the “signifies” people deep in Dreamtime who think they are extra awake —but that when you go back five generations, you get so many chances for a winner story. Since the sum of the series of 2 to the second through 5 to the second—a mere great great great grandparent—you have about 64 ancestors absent inbreeding and picking one or two of those 64 as someone whose Lamarckian genetic heritage passes direct to the guest is anti science and an incestuosly close cousin to pure racism and a hoot. For goodness sake it may be that you have NO DIRECT GENES FROM ONE OF THE STORY WINNERS. https://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask445
And then there is the Non paternity event.
https://isogg.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event#Conclusions
But that just makes the show even more fun. Go back far enough and a good story will be found. It is like roulette. Play til you hit a winner. Then personalize it.
10
To quote the historic saying of Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr,
"YOUR MAMA!"
3
Gates says that Obama made an "innocent comment that the arrest was stupid." Coming from the President of the United States, such a comment is not at all appropriate no matter what the situation is. Imagine Trump making an 'innocent comment' about the arrest of one of his cronies being "stupid." That would cause a firestorm too and rightly so. Obama made a mistake by saying what he did. It certainly gave a lot of white people the impression that a black POTUS would stand up for a fellow upper-crust black guy like Gates against a white guy. Obama learned from this and didn't make the same mistake again. Gates should be able to understand this, but it sounds like he didn't learn from it.
20
@Caroline appropriate or not, Obama called it right about that arrest of HLG. How does a man get himself arrested for the charge of 'disorderly conduct' when he breaks into his own house, and he's there ALONE? Just 'who' was HLG disorderly to?
I can tell you as a 28 year police officer (now retired) in the City of Chicago that as a police officer, you would never bring such an arrest into any district station and get that charge approved by any watch commander.
My personal belief concerning that arrest is that the sergeant who appeared on the scene got his feelings bruised by whatever HLG had to say to him when they encountered each other on that fateful day. That was the Sgt.'s way of dealing with that situation. Once he determined that HLG actually resided there, determined that there were no injured persons in the home, he should have withdrawn from that location, providing the proper code over the air to inform the dispatcher that the "burglary in progress" was unfounded. By arresting Gates (on the bogus charge of disorderly conduct), who was in his own home and had broken no laws, the sergeant did, indeed, make himself appear 'stupid.' Obama very clearly assessed that situation, as did many other police officers upon reading about it.
26
@Caroline
Please don't compare President Obams with Trump - there is no comparison. Please!
10
@Caroline
No, it was right for the President to state what was plain to see. Trump is corrupt, dishonest. That makes all the difference.
5
Dr. Gates is making correct argument that equally, per student-funded public schools and universal health care would be two major pillars of reparation program and already existing programs he mentions are indeed a form of reparation.
To me, the fact that federal government workforce is in 20% African-American, while African/Americans represent 12 to 13% of U.S. population, is a significant representation of reparation-like corrective measures.
Increasingly, over the decades, and especially now, in the age of merciless global competition, job stability, hopes for any long-term - not to mention life-long - career are fantasy, unrealistic goal for 90% of workers. Only health care and government, specifically federal government (which unlike state and local governments doesn't need to have balanced budget) continues to be oasis for job stability, decent labor law practices, etc.
So the majority populations, seeing say 20% : 12% = 1.6, i.e. 60% over-representation of African-Americans in federal workforce as one, not insignificant fact and part of reparation effort. Stable and reasonably well-treated federal workforce has been important contribution to African-Americans as well as Whites making it into middle or even upper middle class.
7
@Sid In your calculation, are you including the US military? If you are your claiming that there is some sort of reparation in military enlistment that is disingenuous. The US military is open to all US citizens regardless of race. Historically the military has been disproportionately composed of working class racial minority groups because the military, despite being a dangerous occupation, is frequently the best and many times the only option people of color from the working class have for a career. Looking forward to seeing the source of your statistics but you need to exclude occupations that are open to everyone to claim that there is some sort of reparations occurring in federal employment.
5
@Sid If you could see me, you would hear me yelling and clapping my hands for joy over the idea to improve schools as a way to meet the needs of African American and, in fact, all children. I have a lot of ideas.
3
@Sid
Washington, D.C., where many federal workers reside, is 50% African-American. Do you know whether African-Americans are 'over-represented' in the DC-based federal work force?
1
All of our grandchildren, and we have nine of them, are mixed race. Half white and black, half white and Chinese, half white and Hispanic. I hold out hope that the whole country holds together long enough to reach the point where we are truly post-racial. That's when we will truly have reached "e pluribus unum"...out of many, one. I am so proud of my kids for helping to forge a new path.
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@SLC
Post racial? Identity politics is one of the power levers of the Left "racial" isnt going anywhere soon
12
@D - Power levers of the left are 'people problems.' When racism is diminished, then sexism or class-ism will be there. We don't control what isms arise. We follow the whim of society and try to help the dissed people to fit in, so society will be more peaceful and enjoyable. You just divided us without fully understanding what your fellowmen are about. We know what Jesus knew: we have to heal divisions.
14
@SLC I do not like the "post racial" idea. The fact is that as individuals we are all different and the presence of other racial groups and nationalities is an asset in all of our lives. It's simply that a number of people don't see it that way: xenophobia and racism is the result.
Professor Gates is a national treasure and no doubt a seminal influencer of his students. His work however as a public intellectual may be even more valuable; the writing has such clarity, singular insights, and eloquence. The arresting tale of the Howard student's question about Booker T. Washington spoke volumes of written text in so few words.
54
Mr. Gates is a smart man, but I don't think he used good judgment, when he acted antagonistically to the policeman who came to check on activity that looked suspicious to a 911 caller. How was the policeman supposed to know who Mr. Gates was? And yet Mr. Gates was offended and would not give his I.D. When you don't give your information to the police, then they are left to question why not? Is the person covering up something or is there a warrant out for them? There is no doubt that Mr. Gates would have been very upset, if someone had broken into his home, and the policeman had not followed up on the 911 call. The policeman was out working to protect Mr. Gates' residence.
All Mr. Gates had to do was comply, explain the circumstances and thank the policeman for doing his job. That would have been the end of it right there. But instead, Mr. Gates was uncooperative and obstinate, escalating the encounter and making it a national issue.
There are certainly cases of police injustice, but Mr. Gates encounter with a policeman checking on Mr. Gates' private property, was not one of them
49
@Tuxedo Cat I'm from Minnesota. Philando Castile complied and explained the circumstances.
That worked out well, eh?
54
@Tuxedo Cat
Prof Gates has profound, scholarly, in depth, and intimate insight into the multitude of illegal, oppressive, fatal mistakes, even murderous actions of white police officers against black people.
Image with that context coming home from a long trip, having to break into your own home, being in your own home and having a white, armed police officer come into your home, uninvited and demand your ID. (a recent incident happened last year a black man was shot and killed in his own home by police misconduct) Therefore I grant Professor Gates wide margins of grace in being disoriented, indignant, even fearful about what was happening.
If you read the whole interview you will see police Prof Gates and in other reporting on the event even the police officer came to understand their initial perspectives interfered as events unfolded.
Another factor, that seems far too common in our day and age, is that the neighbor who called the police didn't know or recognize her neighbor and go out to see if he needed help to get into his home.
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@Tuxedo Cat
"All Mr. Gates had to do was comply,"
No. That attitude is what perpetuates stratification in our society and gets in the way of fixing it.
It makes the assumption that individuals who don't "comply" during encounters with the police, even on one's own porch, are "uncooperative and obstinate".
It also misses the point that the crux of the issue with a "policeman checking on Mr. Gates' private property" was skepticism that that was the case.
The problem of police exceptionalism is much worse for minorities but it also transcends race. Anybody who doesn't conform in the moment to what police expect can have an adverse encounter, which in turn means a theoretically minor encounter can be unexpectedly life-altering.
The "all you have to do..." philosophy does not take into account the open-ended, realtime challenge of figuring out what this cop wants on this occasion.
20
Interesting and informative interview!
I wonder, Dr. Gates, if some serious effort on reparations in the US would pave the way for reparations from France to the people of Haiti, which as you know the French brutalized even more severely than the Americans did their slaves. They captured and allowed to die in prison Haiti's Toussaint L'Ouverture, probably the most outstanding human being of the 1800's. Then France forced the people they brutalized to pay them war reparations for many, many decades!
3
@Rudy2 - I didn't know about the brutalization of Haitians. I have heard of Christopher Columbus doing horrible things to the Dominicans. Also I have read of the revolting mistreatment of Argentinian natives in the mining of silver. Any mistreatment is heard to read or hear. But, I wonder how much good will money (cash) do? I grew up on Welfare, and I don't think money now will make up for the fact that I had to change schools, focus on surviving rather than learning, be assumed not to be college material, and uninformed about financial aid. College for myself, if I'm able, education-for-sure for children and grandchildren, maybe psychological counseling, raising the awareness of one's own potential. Money has limited usefulness: buying a new home, new furniture, a car. Some of those things do make a difference, of course. Maybe even just having the knowledge that you were reimbursed---but how much is three centuries of suppression worth? Then, should we reimburse gay people who were bullied? I wish I could have been able to attend college before my children were in school. I know I could have done so much more, but I am grateful for what I Have accomplished. I just want their heavy burden to be lifted, and I think self-respect and pride will not be boosted enough with money.
5
His careful statement on reparations is right on for my money.
1. Good schools and teachers for every kid in the US. The most help will have to the poorest districts, and poor white, Indigenous, and brown kids need help too.
2. College for every poor kid in the US, black, brown, Indigenous, Asian and Euro. Black kids will get a big share of the help, given how poor many Black families are. Cut out the fake private college scams, and make kids take real courses, and make progress.
3. Good health care for every person in this country.
These three efforts would greatly improve the lot of African-Americans, and Hispanic Americans, and Indigenous Americans, and it would make us a better and stronger nation in every respect. And in the end it wouldn't cost that much, when you factor in lower costs of incarceration and welfare, and increased productivity.
And you don't have to do it all at once. Start building new schools now, with jobs going to local contractors and workers. Start reducing college loans now for poor kids. Start increasing college grants for poor kids. Rebuild and strengthen Affordable Care.
All it takes is an electorate that cares enough to elect honest intelligent people who actually care about America enough to work to get important things done.
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@Allan Lindh
Good schools and good health care are important starts.
I would add thorough lessons in civics, teachings about the equality and the dignity of every human being . We held an American identity in common in the small town where I grew up. Many were poor. Many were first-generation Americans. We believed anyone (back then white and male alas!) could grow up to be president. Everyone deserved a chance! Reparations are about giving that chance but I worry that the very word congers "victims". Is there another way to honor the dignity of those, who for whatever reason, fail to thrive?
3
@Allan Lindh - Definitely very reasonable. Equality, is one characteristic in this list, isn't it? The black people have most definitely fought valiantly and bravely for that.
1
I'm white, and I voted for Obama twice. I was bursting with pride that the US finally had a black president.
Right now, I'm in mourning for how terribly wrong we got it this time around...
63
If only every American would watch his show. Dr Gates illuminates the facts of where we come from and how we come to be living together here with empathy and sincerity that cannot be faked like so much reality tv. He reminds us all that if we are not Native American we are ALL immigrants.
Love you Dr Gates!
35
@eubanks - I love this show, too. I do genealogy, on my own, using Ancestry, etc. I've found some interesting stories in my work; surprising relationships from generation to generation, verification of family traditions, people to be proud of. I save my Roots episodes and binge-watch sometimes, and I sometimes re-watch them, because they are comforting to me.
3
Thanks Times for this interview, it’s why I keep my subscription in place. Please push this type of thoughtful journalism.
35
Malcolm, not Malcom
5
Just as Dr. Gates does not see Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. as a saint, nor should we see Dr. Gates as a saint. From my 61 years alive on this planet, I have yet to meet a saint. Please do not choose your next president based on this one article. Do your own research. Bloomberg is no saint either.
9
@Julie - The nuns who taught in my high school said not to pray to be a saint, because nobody likes a real saint. We have to balance their good with their sins: I still love Kennedy, King, and people like them. Not aware of harm to their children. They are the real people. The sins I worry about are the ones that will run our country down by misspending, or making behind-the-scenes deals.
One of the best/ most interesting interviews I've read in a long time. In part, I suppose, because everything Dr. Gates said seems extremely thoughtful and balanced on some very difficult issues. In particular, I think the knowledge that we are all "mixed race" to some degree is an important learning that should be recognized whenever we might be tempted to demonize other people. We'd all benefit from seeing each other as human beings first, and from sharing our diverse cultures freely with others.
46
One of the best tv presenters I've come across in many years. Not just knowledgeable and well prepared for each segment, but consistently able to react to what his guest says with an incisive question or insightful comment. Intelligent, yet very warm and kind. Ideal, really.
18
I attended Yale when Henry Louis Gates, Jr. first started teaching there. I believe the course was "Black Women and Their Fictions" that he taught, and I took it. It was marvelous and well-attended. I read "The Signifying Monkey" among other of his books, and I loved it, but I love academic books. At that time, he often referred to himself as "Skip." He was an enormously engrossing professor. As a Lit Theory major, I studied poststucturalism, Deconstruction, French Philosophy, etc. Someone below derogated it, which which I take issue. It was immensely useful in my career both as a psychiatrist and psychotherapist.
18
I learn from Dr Gates every time he speaks or writes. sometimes it is a new understanding of who we are, and sometimes of how to be. He is a treasure.
19
I love Dr.Gates - He never loses my interest in his writings and I love Finding Your Roots. I do genealogy and I know the joy of those eureka moments when you find some bit of family. He is such a genuine man and sure wish I had been able to take a class of his .
Keep up the good work Dr. Gates in fighting that demon racism.
19
Dr. Gates, I would love to hear your comments on the current leadership of former Rhodesia.
7
I would just take a guess that both Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are anti-reparations.
You just won my heart with this interview, Dr. Gates. But credit where it's due . . . Corey Booker has always had a very good and very public and very nuanced stance on reparations and he's not far off from where you land. Thanks to you and the Times and btw, I always wondered what you all talked about at that White House Summit. Phil Curtis
17
Blown away by Dr. Gates’ PBS documentaries “The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross” and “Reconstruction: America After the Civil War.” Having grown up in Virginia, and as a Government & Politics major, I thought I knew a thing or two about African-American history. Not. Keep it coming, Dr. Gates!
20
Everything about this article ties into the election, and I was curious to see where Dr. Gates would land. There was shade on Biden in the lead-in, and early on Gates mentioned the complexity of MLK. There was reason to hope he'd mention class considerations as well as racial ones in the primary, as both are essential to heal the growing rift in the Democratic Party.
Then he argued for his bespoke suit.
I've no doubt he was favorably impressed by Bloomberg at Martha's Vineyards social functions. I am certain his scholarship is impeccable. I am also clear that Dr King had the right of it in that a multiracial coalition of the working poor for human rights is the best path forward.
I would be surprised that Gates can't see that, but the excellent fit and fine fabric in bespoke suits can be awfully seductive.
9
@Theodore Mr Bloomberg has donated $1.8 billion, yes billion, to Johns Hopkins so that undergraduates won't have to take out student loans. There are zero restrictions regarding race with his gift.
Don't judge a book by its cover.
3
@Eric T
I would ask first if you're familiar with reputation laundering, before going too deep on Mr. Bloomberg. Charitiable donations aren't very impressive when you can deduct them from your taxes, let alone should anyone have $1.8B to donate in the first place.
As to your point about appearances, remember that Dr. Gate's way of presenting his own narrative is about fine apparel in finer society. I think we can tell which one he class value he chooses.
1
As to Mr. Gates opinion of reparations, especially Affirmative Action as one form of same, can there be any doubt that the primary beneficiaries were of Affirmative Action were white women. Other beneficiaries included people who were not descended from slaves in America. In other words, Affirmative Action as implemented, never served to deliver reparations to the people it was proposed to repair. Other forms of reparations must include special considerations in housing, employment and education for descendants of slaves, provisions for affordable housing and for enabling struggling home owners to stay in their homes.Finally, provisions for aid to public schools in racially segregated communities must be a consideration.
8
Prof. Gates is right about Mike Bloomberg--one bad hombre capable of taking on Trump.
22
I am disappointed with the the NYT headline for this article. It did serve its purpose in that it made me read the article. I wondered why Dr. Gates was trashing Joe Biden! Fortunately the article was interesting and I read it through. No trash to be found, but lots of food for thought.
C'mon, editors, that headline was unworthy of the NYT.
17
@Robert B
The facts are alarming, and one hopes Bloomberg has to answer for them.
But I doubt it factual that 99.9% of the New Yorkers stopped were black. Or instead is it that 99.9% of the .1% found with weapons were black, a remarkably opposed assertion and a correct reading of the paragraph?
How refreshing that Gates was able to bite his tongue regarding Bloomberg.
@Dan K Neither of those statistics are correct. Please Google it.
I had the pleasure of meeting Professor Gates last summer at a picnic table outside a take-out restaurant in Cambridge. He was just as gracious and unassuming in person as he appears to be in this interview. It's obvious he takes his scholarship very seriously, but not himself. I only wish the interview had been longer.
34
Mr. Gates, awesome man and scholar
15
Fantastic article. He's very thought provoking. Thank you.
23
I really enjoy Professor Gate's take on things and I enjoy his program on PBS. I only differ in one area of this article, his statement that President Obama's presidency "drove white people out of their minds". As a older white guy, I loved him as our president and Michelle was an amazing first lady of the White House. I think that there is complexity in all races, it's not simply "black and white". I am so proud that we voted the Obamas into the presidency and I miss them every day.
179
@Michael F Agree!
20
@Michael F I agree, too. When Obama won, I didn't care if he never did anything else again. He had already done enough for me as a white woman. I was so proud of him. The folks who voted for him gave me hope for this country.
25
@Michael F Give the professor some credit here: he didn't say that Obama's presidency drove white people out of their minds, he said that if they were sitting around in a bar with a bunch of black people, they *could* say that. And I agree, because I've sat around in my living room with a bunch of white people and said that! But I would not say it in an interview with the Times.
It's a shorthand used when you're talking with people you agree with to refer to a more nuanced argument that's already been made.
23
This is too typical of the New York Times. Its assumed that "white privilege" colors everything (no pun intended). Why wasn't the white officer contacted for his impression of their meeting? Remember the way reporters used to describe it when they weren't able to provide the other side of the story? e. g. "The officer involved was contacted but declined to comment on the assertions" etc. But it appears that no attempt was made to even made to contact him!
Gates's account smacks of a condescending attitude when he met the officer in the White House. The reporter didn't even challenge Gates's about his negative conclusions about the officer's motivation(s) that night. Gates should have known beter than that himself given his background.
It is exactly this kind of article that provokes the public's mistrust of the mainstream media.
17
@Irving Nusbaum
Gates was subjected to a form of "unreasonable search and seizure" at the hands of the authorities, a violation of a fundamental principle in British and, consequently, American civil tradition, dating at least from the 17th century. The arresting officer was not. Add to that that the article covers many other topics pertinent to Dr. Gates, not inconsequentially because of his racial identification, and I believe you will find that omission of the arresting officer's opinions to be of little harm.
19
@Irving Nusbaum
I found every aspect of Gates' account both even-handed and generous of spirit. Considering the facts of the initial arrest, I feel it was on the officer to have been the same. Why make this article into another battleground?
17
@Irving Nusbaum The piece is a profile of Gates. It's not a news story recapping the Cambridge incident. There is a difference between reporting and profiling.
29
I am a great fan of Dr. Gates, but the arrest by the white cop was presented differently at the time. Apparently, Gates was returning home with his suitcases and was searching where he could go in and around around the house having lost his key. The policeman asked him to identify himself which Dr. Gates refused to do. I really hope that my memory is wrong, but if it isn't why is there a different story told on this article?
17
@Kathy Millard The policeman didn't arrive until after he had made it into his house.
9
@Kathy Millard
Actually what happened was that Prof. Gates was in his house when the policeman came to the door. The policeman entered the house while Prof. was retrieving his Harvard Faculty ID. The policeman then claimed the ID was fraudulent, since he knew what a real Harvard University ID looked like! Gates finally proved that he was a "real" Harvard University Professor, and instead of apologizing and immediately departing, the policeman took his time leaving a home he had no legal right to be in. Gates didn't like that, and neither would I!
27
@Kenarmy
The policeman saw him lurking outside because Dr. Gates tried to get in to his own house, but had lost his keys. This was the original explanation given. Why has it been changed? the policeman asked for ID, but Dr. Gates didn't have anything on him and refused to answer when asked to identify himself. That's the beginning of trouble, no matter the colour. I hugely admire the professor, but I feel sorry for the policeman.
6
I'm impressed. A great man.
11
When Obama said "the Cambridge police acted stupidly" - that was when he undermined his own credibility with many voters. It was rash, judgmental and came across as angry at white people - assuming white police are generally trying to do something other than get through a workday without getting injured or killed. He could have put it a hundred better ways - not rushing to race based judgement. It damaged his entire future presidency. And cool it, Times liberals - I voted for the man twice.
15
@formernewyorker
When President Obama said “the Cambridge Police acted stupidly”, I felt like he was speaking like the adult in the room. I found it refreshing. To me, this was not a black man speaking, this was the a President speaking common sense. Next issue in your statement: If the only objective of a police officer is to get through the “workday” without getting killed or injured, they are in the wrong line of work. Go for less money as a librarian, grocery clerk, college professor. All important and much needed professions. This was a great article.
38
@formernewyorker
Wow, so it's only white peoples' feelings that count?
The idea that black people might feel vindicated when a black president calls out white peoples' / white police attitudes that a black person in a generally white environment must be a criminal even when they aren't - that doesn't count?
Given American history, I'd say that's a stretch. And that's confirmed by all the subsequent stories about "doing whatever while black".
20
You’re falsely quoting Crowley. You’re quoting Gates’ recall. The woman who reported the breaking and entering to 9-1-1 (it’s taped) described one robber as Hispanic, and the other as unclear. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct, as he wasn’t compliant with the officers at the scene.
7
I think Professor Gates is an amazing scholar and author. I really enjoyed reading this article. It is always very reassuring to hear the opinions of an educated man. I don't always agree with his points but I can easily understand his points of view because he can clearly explain why he thinks the what he thinks. Thanks for writing this.
13
Thanks for writing this . It is a treasure.
21
We all know of Trump's management of the crowds that stand behind him – they're admonished to be energetically pro-Trump. How was Obama's instructions to Prof. Gates not to wear a "bespoke suit" or travel in a private jet any different than setting a stage with a false narrative. I remember this case very well; it left a sour taste in my mouth. The Obama Administration, having a stethoscope on the heart of the Nation attempted to manipulate the narrative; that narrative being a poor working-class joe, a cop doing his job of protecting this guy's property, and this PROFESSOR gets all SNOOTY with him . . . I AM THE GREAT PROFESSOR & you are a racist to arrest me. Sorry 'Teach', YOU owe the COP an apology, not vice-versa.
11
@maureen Mc2 try reading what the Professor's response to this is in the interview.
8
@maureen Mc2 Sorry, while I agree that the cop came off like an all right guy, I didn't get the impression of Gates you did. In any case, the two of them settled it, so why can't you?
23
@Jeff I was surprised when I read the article. That this is the man in that incident only goes to prove we're all a little Jeckyl & Hyde. At the time of the incident, Prof. Gates told the sergeant, he had no idea who he was messing with. I think there's plenty of hubris there. When the officer asked Gates to step outside, he responded: "I'll speak with your mama outside." The sergeant said "I was quite surprised and confused with the behaviour he exhibited toward me."
What I love so much about this is that the same complexities in the black experience that HLG Jr. speaks of come through so evidently in his own words and thoughts.
13
Henry Louis Gates Jr. has a brilliant mind. Let his words ring from the mountain top. Maybe the ignorant down below will hopefully think it's God voice speaking to them and change their attitude and prejudice because we are all equal.
20
How extraordinary that this wonderful, rich interview of Gates, in which he semi-endorses Bloomberg and takes on political correctness as well as white supremacy in brilliant detail, has to be summarized as being about Biden? And turned into a dig against Biden, which it really isn't. The NYT needs better headline writers -- I've noticed this kind of false framing before.
76
@Bbwalker Totally agree. This wonderful interview has little to do with Biden. I realize the controversy sells...FOX!! but please NYT don't buy into it.
Love the part about reparations. My thoughts exactly.
23
“Why is Biden at the table? He was there to be the second white guy.”
This quote sums up everything that is wrong with liberalism and the New York Times and why I can barely stand to read it anymore. The left today is as obsessed with race as the most rabid segregationists of the sixties.
Maybe you could consider for a moment, Mr Gates, that Mr. Biden was there because he was Vice President and a trusted adviser to President Obama. Even if it isn't true you might at least have the tact not to bring up his skin color.
27
@Benjamin Greco Have the tact to not bring it up? Who does that tact serve?
"And the reason Joe Biden was there is that the Cambridge police had insisted that because there were going to be two black guys at the table, they wanted two white guys at the table! They had sent somebody involved in the Cambridge police structure to be there. As we were walking out to the Rose Garden, somehow that guy got pushed to the side, and Joe Biden jumped in the line. That’s what nobody ever figured out: Why is Biden at the table? He was there to be the second white guy."
13
@Benjamin Greco That's what's wrong with conservatism. The right today is as angry with the mention of race as the most rabid segregationists of the sixties.
And in fairness to the NYT, they provided a footnote for the comment - 6
According to the former White House official, Vice President Biden was always intended to be at the table.
12
@Benjamin Greco agreed - I did find that part of the article discouraging. I couldn’t imagine it having been the other way around (I.e. “he was just there because we needed another black guy”).
4
Hard to imagine Donald attempting to mediate a police incident.
15
@The Buddy
More like provoking one...
12
I must confess to having a mostly negative opinion of Mr. Gates recently. But this interview was very helpful in demonstrating that he is a thoughtful and interesting man, and for me, it is helpful in quieting the biased side of my brain - which is not racial bias but personality-bias. I am not white or black and have a liberal worldview. As I age, I find myself getting more and more impatient with people who put their egos above the issues, and develop my own ego bias from it.
With the media focusing so much on outrage and alarmism, everything seems false and fake, and when you have a reasoned conversation like this, it is a balm to the soul. Agree or not with the participants, you are better for having participated as a listener to their conversation. Good work!
47
I'd never thought of a 'tenure book' but oh, my! How many of them have I read, never to pick up the second book written for love. I have been very wrong, my scholarship has been flawed and I am profoundly apologetic for having made, albeit ignorantly, such a rookie move. I shall now go back and open up a second world of thought and exploration. Thank you, Dr. Gates. You've just given me a whole 'nother go!
16
Bloomberg? On this I can't possibly agree with Mr. Gates. Michael Bloomberg is proof positive that a billionaire can simply buy his way into the process. Class does matter.
8
@Appalled Billionaire bias? Does being a billionaire equate you with Trump? or Zuckerburg? I don't think so. Its obvious how $$$ is corrupting our political system but that doesn't mean we should demonize those who have been successful.
7
@Sharon Who is demonizing? I'm just pointing out the fact that when being a billionaire means you can buy your way into higher office and a supposed scholar can't even confront the severe crisis this fact represents... I have a disagreement. You seem to be awfully defensive of billionaires though. Don't worry, they will be fine.
1
I have great respect for Professor Gates's work, which is why I am puzzled by the factual inaccuracy of his statement that there were 400 years of slavery followed by 100 years of Jim Crow. When you add in the more than 50 years since the end of Jim Crow, you end up with 550+ years of American history. Our country does not date back to the 15th century. Not even the Spanish were here yet.
The first African slaves were brought to America in 1619. Slavery was ended by the 13th Amendment in 1865. That is a little less than 250 years. The facts are more than horrific and tragic enough; they need no embellishment.
Given the large number of footnotes added by the NYT, I am a little surprised there was no correcting annotation for this statement.
20
@cds333 Perhaps Prof Gates was including slavery in the New World in that number. Salvadore da Bahia in Brazil was founded in 1549 and slaves imported around that time, probably earlier in the Caribbean.
14
First, thanks for the interview and for the notes in red accompanying the interview. I don't think I've ever seen footnotes like that presented in the NYT and I enjoyed it.
HLG lives in a bubble along with Bloomberg. I have to disagree with HLG that Bloomberg could win. New Yorkers get Bloomberg (even if they don't love him) but his appeal will not go beyond the tristate.
5
Finding Your Roots is the best show on TV. I cry.
10
Interesting article. I like Professor Gates program on PBS and the hold idea on tracing your heritage. It is amazing what he or his staff can find out.
11
``One of the most radical things we could do to reform public-school education would be to equalize the amount of money spent per student in every school. That is never going to happen,...''
Why not?
7
Interesting interview. One of the big questions on race and class in America is, "When an African American becomes wealthy and famous, who does he identify with?" By picking Michel Bloomberg, we now know--at least for the professor from Cambridge, MA.
8
Oh my goodness, I love this man.
I became interested in my DNA due to his show; and I find him to be so smooth with both white people as well as black people; he puts people at ease, as was shown in this interview.
If we had more HLG's and people who are willing to reach across the isle and communicate with people, we are all in this together.
Anger and revenge, on both sides gets one no where.
I recently developed a friendship, a bond, with a neighbor who I thought was one of the most racists Republicans on the planet; we came together because we both had each shared a profound loss of a loved one; I would tell you that I understand how she sees the world, now; she is a very kind person under all the disharmony.
We have learned to be able to unwrap the distrust, much as Dr. Gates did with that young police officer and much as he does with his white guests on "Finding Your Roots;" Dr. Gates is able to tell those guests hard truths within a private setting with millions watching.
Someone, beat up and bruised, Rodney King, once said: "can't we just get along."
13
When I read his comment about the TV show "Finding Your Roots". "I’m trying to use the popularity of “Finding Your Roots” to get these political messages in there without being a scold.", my reaction was Professor Gates you are succeeding. Keep it up.
21
While it might be true that Mr. Bloomberg "knows the economy," he has shown not a scintilla of a proposal to reform it fundamentally. It's not enough to know; you have to be committed to change.
3
"One of the most radical things we could do to reform public-school education would be to equalize the amount of money spent per student in every school. That is never going to happen, but that would constitute a radical shift."
Well, here in my (and Bernie Sanders') home state of Vermont, exactly this system has been in place for years. Every state constitution and state supreme court is different, but in Vermont a group of citizens sued and were able to eventually get a ruling that the funding-by-district system was unconstitutional, which in turn forced an act to levelize school funding from one state pool. I will also be the first to admit that outside a very few school districts, diversity here is more economic than racial or ethnic in nature, so that social barrier did not exist here in the same way. And I'd also note that this system has had unintended consequences in the form of increased costs due to the relatively small size of school districts (and, now that yet another law has been passed to address this, some of those districts' refusal to consolidate). But I've actually wondered for a long time whether plaintiffs in other more diverse states could accomplish what they did in Vermont, or if it's even been tried.
23
@gmg22 I, too, took note of Gates' comment about school spending. Here's why I think he's right that the equal spending solution won't happen (oh, how I wish it would): Not long ago, I lived in Milwaukee, where numerous buildings in the city school district were long past their prime, surrounded by asphalt, clearly sending a message, "There is no future here." Yet 20 miles to the west, gleaming new buildings surrounded by acres of parkland offered public school kids all the hope they could want. Are those suburban kids more deserving than their city counterparts? Of course not. Will the situation be remedied? Gates already told you.
13
Dr. Gates is from Mineral county in West Virginia, as was mother's family. I too, attended Potomac State College in Keyser, WV. I wonder when is the last time Dr. Gates returned to the Keyser area. I haven't lived there since the 1970's, when I attended college, but return briefly to the area every few years to place flowers on family members' graves.
Keyser used to have a vibrant main street with a movie theater, a five and dime, clothing stores, hardware stores, etc. Now Main Street is empty store fronts and tattoo parlors. The interesting Victorian-era houses are too often now dilapidated.
Economic blight, "the collapse of expectation," as Dr. Gates said, has hit West Virginia and much of the country not part of the coastal megalopolises. I wonder what Dr. Gates knows about billionaire Bloomberg which would make him believe he would reverse these trends, or even that he has empathy in the face of current extreme inequality? I wonder what family he has who may have remained in Piedmont and Mineral county would think of his praise of Bloomberg?
8
@kimw,
I once saw a show, on PBS, where Dr. Gates and his family were the focus; they were black and white folks in that group; I believe Dr. Gates knows of what he speaks but I will not vote for Bloomberg for other reasons.
3
@kimw A Bloomberg no-nothing are you? Reading is your friend.
4
I like his views on reparations, especially the part about equalizing the money spent per student in our school systems. An argument could even be made for investing even more in the inner cities - more teachers per student, better facilities, and increased spending on after school activities to name a few of the things that might help.
42
I thought that this interview was well done. I recently read A STONY ROAD and I would recommend it to others particularly to those who are not AA . I believe that a central message that Professor Gates is trying to get across is that AA's were badly crippled by both slavery and the Jim Crow Era which even today has its remnants. Yet, despite this there have been many outstanding AA thinkers and leaders. And don't forget that there are a disproportionate number of AA's in our Armed Forces.
10
Looking at things in their complexity and teaching what you learn is essential to academic professionalism. It does not conform to journalistic themes that are painted too broadly.
We need to understand more deeply and if Louis Gates can make that understanding accessible that's important.
He's reached a wide audience.
22
A few definitions:
Prejudice: Pre-judging without knowing the facts.
Racism: Prejudice based upon race.
When Obama was first informed of the incident, the only info he was given was the race and employment -- black professor, white cop -- of the participants. Without pause, he immediately declare that the police had acted "stupidly."
Conclusion: Obama, perhaps indoctrinated by decades of sermons from his "God damn America" Pastor Wright, is a racist.
12
@Austin Liberal
I clicked on "recommend" by accident.
Unless you were a fly on the wall, you cannot know the totality of what was said to Pres. Obama. It is overwhelmingly likely that he was given a great deal more information than "black professor, white cop."
And, while I wasn't there and neither were you, it is much easier to believe that the officer was fitting facts into a pre-conceived story rather than trying to suss out the story in view of the observable facts. In other words, stupid. Quite possibly he was fatigued and frightened, and his conduct is understandable on some level - but still, stupid. That means he wasn't acting at his best. It's not a condemnation of the officer. It's a condemnation of the system that sends his mind - and way too many other cops' - too readily to "what's wrong with what that black guy is doing," instead of "what is that guy doing."
15
@Austin Liberal Umm, no. He was also told that a man was arrested for breaking into his own house. *After* having proven he lived there. For disorderly conduct, because Gates had been insufficiently demure and polite after being threatened and bossed around in his own home.
Really.
25
@Austin Liberal
Or was Mr. Obama merely reacting to the fact that a Harvard professor was mistaken, in his own home, as a burglar. And arrested! It's happened more than once.
14
Gates said: "'The Signifying Monkey' is my tenure book. I was just trying to get tenure."
^ In our current era, Gates' honesty is very refreshing. I know many professors who would never dare to admit this.
164
@Sándor
To get tenure he had to demonstrate a new concept with thoroughness of understanding — demonstrate it to a learned committee of experts. Once tenured he was free to spread that esoteric knowledge to the rest of us, in terms we could understand. Not a stretch for him to acknowledge that. He's honest about a lot of things.
22
@Sándor
Gates is a good example of why tenure should be done away with. He admits in this interview that he sought tenure so that he could “make movies”. The purpose of tenure is to allow academics to pursue their academic interests without the “publish or perish” sword of Damocles hanging over their heads. Harvard has claimed that Gates is neglecting his duties as a Harvard professor, both the duty to teach and the duty to further Harvard’s interests. You can imagine what would happen is they tried to fire him.
2
Like all Black celebrities,refuses to discuss the truth of violent crime and killings within the Black community in the inner cities with shootings in the many ,many thousands and escalated tremendously during Obamas terms. Beer summit ,nah.
12
@Alan Einstoss
I don't recall the interviewer asking any questions related to your topic in the published piece. That does not indicate whether or not Dr. Gates would or would not speak to the issue.
8
@Alan Einstoss
No! those crimes have not! Where are your figures? (from a somewhat trusted source like the FBI and not from a propaganda machine like Fox and its' ilk.)
Of course there is a whole history of blocking access to success or even straightforward survival behind gang killings, whether these gangs be mostly "black" or "orange" ...
And then there's the rise of domestic terrorism by radical right wingers under Trump's "there are some good guys on both sides".... What is it that makes some people in our country shoot up school children, and churches and synagogues and Malls?????
THINK.
5
@Solon I'd have to include Jimmy Carter along with Barack Obama as our most decent presidents in recent times.
2
Wow. I have a whole new view of this man now. Such refreshing honesty: "I was just trying to get tenure." I love it.
40
A brilliant conversation for which I thank the participants.
I have to admit that the view of Bloomberg came as a surprise, but being largely ignorant of Bloomberg beyond name recognition, I appreciate the fodder. From a rather simple perspective, it makes sense too that it would take a rich blowhard to counter a rich blowhard. The fear for me is that Bloomberg is simply too much Democrat (meaning, more of the same politics) as anyone. I'm biased towards Sanders because I would like to see much change in this country, much shocking, drastic, change, but in a positive sense. I suppose one might argue that that is exactly why so many voted for Trump, and indeed, they have gotten their money's worth.
But there is little positive about Trump, like there was little, if anything, positive about Pol Pot or Mao, but I digress.
Thanks again for a very nice read.
27
Excellent interview - more like it sorely needed
31
“I go”, “they go”, I always correct my kids. Where did they go?
“I said”, “they said”.
14
@Veronica
Are you militating for a return to Proto-Sanskrit? (aka the source of the many Indo-European languages derived from it including such different ones as Russian, Hindi, English, etc etc etc.)
Language is the most democratic process we have since we all participate in its creative change every time each of us open our mouth. This regardless of our social status.... actually more often the change comes from below through a process where slang looses its slang status and becomes part of the main language. ()check out the Oxford dictionary new words it puts out each year!)
I understand that language changes can be upsetting for some individuals but that's the way it goes.... and there are so much worse things to be upset about.
PS: read a bit of literature... how about James Joyce or the poet e e cummings (who refused capital letters in his name!) etc. There is a treasure trove out there waiting for you to enjoy.
4
"There were palpable costs to anti-black racism that have had profound effects on the state of black America."
I have thought for sometime now that racism has had very real costs … for all of us … society as a whole. The divisions and distances caused by ignorance and fear are detrimental to our well-being as individuals, as families, as communities and society as a whole … nationally and internationally. It inhibits everything we try to accomplish … from something as simple as a friendly conversation to something as monumental as international treaty negotiations.
How do we enlighten a populace to understand and appreciate the real diminishing effects their own fears and ignorance have on their ability to prosper?
57
@Byron I agree with you 100%. Are you married?
5
Dr. Gates' endorsement of Mike Bloomberg has compelled me to more seriously consider him as my preferred candidate.
51
@Celeste But he explicitly said it was NOT an endorsement.
8
Really Celeste...? Prof Gates explicitly says "not and endorsement" Perhaps you think Bloomie can stand up to Trump...
news on the street is all the candidates are itching to call him a liar!
3
If I was not already an admirer of Dr.Gates, this interview would have certainly made me one.
Dr.Gates please endorse Mr.Bloomberg and let us get him elected.
16
It would have helped if this was published in the context of the meeting- say a day or week later. I am talking about helping public perceptions that were left dangling.
People both Black and White listen to Henry Gates. it would have helped.
2
This individual uses the term "I go" instead of "I responded" or "I said" and he teaches where?
5
@TD Helder He teaches at Harvard. In this instance, he was talking casually to a journalist.
You might also note the following quotes for context:
“My brother asked me once,” says Gates, 69, recalling a time when he and his work were less well known, “‘When are you going to write a book that Daddy and Mama can read?’”
A friend of mine invited me down to deliver my essay called “Binary Oppositions in Chapter 1 of ‘Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass.’” I thought I was introducing structuralism. When I was done, I expected a standing ovation. The first question I got was: “Yeah, brother. All we want to know is, was Booker T. Washington an Uncle Tom or not?” That had a profound effect on me. I have an ego. I want the audience to be with me. That’s what you see in my evolution.
9
@TD Helder
This was a friendly interview. Give the man a break. I hear journalists & newpeople using improper grammar on TV every day! Donald Trump doesn't even know that the Kansas City where the Chiefs play is in Missouri.
10
@TD Helder You are obviously a superior human being. I salute you.
2
Excellent conversation.
16
Thank the black gods of the universe for an articulate classy curious academic polymath public black African American public intellectual like Dr. Gates to balance out the ignorant inarticulate bloviating buffoonery of too many black preachers and politicians and media entertainers.
Gates is not a geneticist nor a genealogist nor a historian nor a specialist in economics or politics. He is popularizer of all of those fields on behalf of black African Americans.
That a white Cambridge cop had no idea who Dr. Gates was and could 'Tarzan' the Obama White House into a ' beer summit' for speaking the truth shows how far America hasn't come on color aka race. And why Trump is in the White House.
24
Also, considering the pickle that former Harvard Law School professor Dershowitz got himself into for his flights on Jeffrey Epstein's plane -- as well as other academicians' reputations harmed by association with Epstein -- universities would be wise to enact ethics rules restricting this kind of thing.
6
@CT Reader,
Dershowitz is a retired professor; what can be done about that: nothing.
2
@JRS I'm pretty sure the accusations related to Dershowitz date to before his retirement, Other non-retired academicians, and their institutions, have damaged their reputations by accepting gifts and favors from Epstein. Journalists are not supposed to accept freebies, neither should profs.
1
There are many reasons reparations are untenable:
1. Slavery ended in 1865 and most non-black Americans are descended from immigrants who arrived after 1865 and were not slave-holders, and thus do not owe reparations.
2. Many blacks are descended from Africans who came to the US after 1865 and therefore are not owed reparations.
3. Many blacks are of mixed race; will their payments be pro-rated on the percentage of black/slave ancestry? How will such ancestry be measured? DNA? Historic or genealogical records?
4. Will blacks descended from African tribes that captured members of other tribes and sold them into slavery receive reparations?
5. Do all taxpayers have to pay into a reparations fund, or only non-blacks?
6. Will rich blacks (e.g., the Obamas) receive reparations or will there be a cap on recipients' income?
7. Will illegal immigrants receive or pay reparations?
8. Will payments to blacks be reduced by the amounts paid for welfare, affirmative action and other benefits they and their ancestors have received since 1865?
9. Will reparations mean the end of affirmative action for blacks?
10. What about reparations for Native Americans, who lost so much land and so many lives?
11. Poor blacks are far outnumbered by poor whites and Hispanics; won't they be eligible for special payments, too?
If reparations are part of the 2020 Democratic platform Trump will be re-elected.
14
@Mon Ray
you forgot point number 0. Nobody wants to pay reparations. We are Americans, not Germans!
All mockery aside, the argument about reparations is not about monetary compensation, it is to have a conversation about the realities of slavery and the consequences of slavery which still affect our society. It is sort of like psychoanalysis, or AA - where as part of the 12 steps, one confesses one's transgressions and then reaches out to those they hurt and asks for forgiveness, etc etc... Truth and Reconciliation.
Whether it will happen, and if it does whether it will work, are all unknowable until we try. But it makes sense for many people to try to confront the issue rather than make excuses for people long dead and forgotten, and rationalize the indefensible just to protect our delicate egos.
6
@Mon Ray You might try reading the article, to see what Gates suggests as possible avenues for reparations. If it's not too much trouble.
22
@Mon Ray,
another point, many white people in this country also had a black ancestor, usually a grandmother line; my white eye doctor told me he had a black ancestor found thru DNA; even one of the host on Fox News admitted that he has a black ancestor in his DNA; do they get reparations too?
3
Thank you for your penetrating insight, courage, and living example, Dr. Gates! You're the man.
13
Gates's point about the three dimensionality of all humans is a point lost on so much of our nation. Two dimensional viewing of others by both the left and right is perhaps the most incidious form of racism.
20
Reparations in the form of affirmative action sounds simple and reasonable until you witness elite schools like Harvard discriminating against Asians in the spirit of "fairness" to African Americans. Are we then going to have to pay reparations to Asians 400 years from now? Native Americans may have fared even worse than Blacks. They were largely killed! How do we determine which Black people are descendants of slaves? Latinos are openly discriminated against. Where does it all end? At some point reparations become far too complicated to implement.
7
@Jerome
Native Americans were the victims of American genocide - pure and simple.
9
I agree with everything Dr Gates has to say here with the exception of Mike Bloomberg's electability with African American voters.
5
The NYT solicits diverse and on-topic comments; here are mine.
There are many reasons reparations are untenable:
1. Slavery ended in 1865 and most non-black Americans are descended from immigrants who arrived after 1865 and were not slave-holders, and thus do not owe reparations.
2. Many blacks are descended from Africans who came to the US after 1865 and therefore are not owed reparations.
3. Many blacks are of mixed race; will their payments be pro-rated on the percentage of black/slave ancestry? How will such ancestry be measured? DNA? Historic or genealogical records?
4. Will blacks descended from African tribes that captured members of other tribes and sold them into slavery receive reparations?
5. Do all taxpayers have to pay into a reparations fund, or only non-blacks?
6. Will rich blacks (e.g., the Obamas) receive reparations or will there be a cap on recipients' income?
7. Will illegal immigrants receive or pay reparations?
8. Will payments to blacks be reduced by the amounts paid for welfare, affirmative action and other benefits they and their ancestors have received since 1865?
9. Will reparations mean the end of affirmative action for blacks?
10. What about reparations for Native Americans, who lost so much land and so many lives?
11. Poor blacks are far outnumbered by poor whites and Hispanics; won't they be eligible for special payments, too?
If reparations are part of the 2020 Democratic platform Trump will be re-elected.
3
@Mon Ray
Dont worry, they aren't going to happen.
But good schools for everyone? It's a good idea anywayl
3
@Mon Ray
It's worth noting that many of the surviving Japanese American citizens who were stripped of their rights and interned during WW2 were granted reparations and an apology in 1988 by Ronald Reagan.
With the political will such things as reparations are proven to be doable
2
Dropped like concrete clouds: Martha's Vineyard more than once. Bloomberg, bespoke suits, private planes, my billionaire friend...
Ladies and gentlemen here he is: The Great Gatesby.
14
@Big Frank He's a successful guy, and proud of it. So what?
12
@Big Frank I was a student of Gates’ in college and this always bothered me about him. He has a huge ego and name-dropped like crazy. I remember when Obama was elected, he talked about how Oprah sent him cupcakes for going on her show. I thought maybe he would share the cupcakes with us, not no dice. I am glad though, reading these comments, that so many people seem to feel enriched by his commentary and his shows. That makes me feel a lot better about the man.
1
@Big Frank
Funny.
He is trying to be real though, this is the circle he is now moving in and he owns it. The stereotype of all black people being poor does not apply anymore. He describes the doubling of the black upper-middle-class, etc... since the Civil Rights Act and points out the realities of this progress. How many people think as a norm that there are black people flying around in private jets, soireeing in Martha's Vineyard and the Hamptons? They are now.
Whatever you may say about Liberals, they pulled the majority of whites out of poverty and created a wonderful middle class from 1933-1990s. They have managed to better the lives of Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, the Disabled, and on and on. The media will make it seem like all they did was raise taxes and introduce political correctness to the world.
17
A fine West Virginian from Keyser and a fellow attendee of Peterkin Episcopal Camp.
Gauche? Don't see it.
Thank you for your work Dr. Gates.
10
Yeah, that's how I view Biden: look like a leader by jumping in front of the marching crowd.
6
He calls the police. "Can't get in the house, no keys".
After the shock of finding out it's a black guy the cop recovers and it's over. I assume he hasn't invited him and family for beer and sea doos on the vineyard.
Looks like Obama's instincts are a little more finely honed in the empathy department.Too bad white people never understood a word he said.
8
This was a fantastic interview. I found Mr. Gates to be well reasoned and illuminating.
The Mike Bloomberg endorsement is fascinating as well!
39
@Jim cibulka He literally says, "This is not an endorsement."
18
An interesting and thoughtful interview of an important thinker. I did find it strange that after claiming to be neutral on the Democratic primaries, Gates seems to gush about Bloomberg, who many view as trying to buy the nomination while skipping the competitive early primaries.
12
I took this as an assessment of who could win against Trump and further inferred that Gates was saying he could live with most of Bloomberg‘a policies. I also found it interesting that, although respectful, he wasn’t gushing about any of the candidates he actually knows.
23
@JA den Hartog Yes, he does honestly believe Bloomberg is the pragmatic choice, but I believe he's ignoring the pragmatic issue of popularity. Again, I get his drift--but I think he's wrong here. He could change the race himself by saying more about friends Sanders & Warren. Let's see how Bloomberg does today.
1
@Pembe As my family's genealogist, I look forward to Finding Your Roots on PBS. All of Dr. Gates's programs have been illuminating for me, a pre-Boomer white woman.
On Bloomberg, Dr. Gates and I agree. Although Bloomberg is not the most attractive candidate policy-wise for Progressives and Left-leaning Liberals like myself, he is, I believe, the only person who can go toe-to-toe with trump. He's got the money to outspend trump, he will filter lots of money down-ballot to help us win back the Senate. He's the only candidate who can punch back at trump, and has the gravitas so lacking in trump. He will definitely appeal to the moderates and Independents. There's no point in winning the WH if we can't regain the Senate and hold the House, as well. Bloomberg can pull that together like none of the other candidates can.
He's also been in the trenches in NYC with trump and knows him like no other...which he'll use to his advantage.
13
I am puzzled by the need for footnotes in a breezy feature article: does it signify that Gates is perhaps known for stretching the truth from time to time,
E.g.., footnote #5 refutes his assertion that the White House asked Gates not to fly to DC on a private jet or to wear a "bespoke suit."
Another questionable claim: "The only way we could get to Washington was on Glenn’s [financier Glenn Hutchins] plane, because there was fog."
My understanding of modern aviation is that commercial airliners are equipped to fly through fog, and that they are - in fact - given priority over corporate and private aircraft by the air traffic control system.
12
@CT Reader Footnotes have been part of this feature for some time, not just with Gates. They imply nothing about the veracity of the interview subject.
20
An incredibly wise and sensible man interviewed by an excellent journalist.
45
Interesting reflections. I wish they would have discussed Gates' appearance in HBO's Watchmen series from this winter since that also deals with racism and reparations.
3
I really found this interview insightful. There is a big gap between “woke”/“politically correct” culture, demands for monetary reparations, etc., and the complicated, nuanced reality of the situation that Gates explained. Uninformed or purposefully ignorant folks on both sides of the argument exploit this gap to promote their viewpoints and political ends. To me, the bottom line is that ALL people all diverse and complicated, and trying to simplify this fact into neat little categories (e.g. oppressed vs. oppressor) other serves to divide us more. We need more education and understanding... but given human nature it is an uphill (but not unworthy) endeavor.
29
Skip Gates always has something interesting to say. Just saw him in The Watchman which gives an interesting "money where his mouth is" twist to his work. Thanks for the article.
6
@Patty Mutkoski I believe the moniker "SKIP" references his one leg being shorter than the other and is not used by anyone but his most intimate family and friends.
5
@angelique I beg to differ. My understanding is that he is known, affectionately, as "Skip."
4
@angelique I was his student. He is known by everyone as Skip Gates.
This piece almost sounds like a requiem for a civilized era - will we ever get reasoned discourse back in public life?
76
@KC Yes. We must.
11
The most important contribution of Finding Your Roots to our society is to debunk the myth of racial purity. You gotta love Prof. Gates for this.
197
@Indisk
Gates picks people who he knows are racially mixed for his show. He has resources that can generate a genealogy in a day. As he admits, he is using his show for political purposes, to further his own myth, that most people in this country are racially mixed.
@Bathsheba Robie you seem to be very resentful, and quick to label Professor Gates's well-substantiated view "his own myth." What, exactly, are your credentials?
5
I just want to add that deconstruction and post structuralism drove a lot of intelligent people who don't care to learn speak or write in academic jargon out of academic work. I'd say that includes a lot of women and minorities.
12
@Oona
And the de- and post- folks captured and occupy departments of some otherwise decent universities.
You likely are aware of this:
https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/02/academic-grievance-studies-and-the-corruption-of-scholarship/
One thing Dr. Gates's PBS program demonstrates is that this is an incredibly diverse country, that any idea of racial purity is simply impossible, not to mention obscene.
I admire the man.
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"I want to say this right, because I haven’t said this to anybody: Among all the candidates, the person who I believe could stand toe-to-toe, strongest and longest with Donald Trump is Mike Bloomberg."
A fascinating statement from a black man arrested for entering his own home.
I was part a team of lawyers who brought one of many lawsuits against Bloomberg's "Stop and Frisk" program. In 2013 U.S. District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin found Bloomberg's stop-and-frisk program unconstitutional, ordered immediate reforms, and appointed a monitor.
Bloomberg then held a press conference vilifying everyone opposing his policy, insisting "members of minority groups" were stopped because they "committed crimes". It was a lie, and he knew it.
In 2011 alone there were 685,724 stop-and-frisks. 25% were children. A mere 0.1% of all stops led to the seizure of anything classifiable as a weapon. Even that was inflated. When Bloomberg realized no weapons were being seized, he classified the 6" rulers students are required to bring to schools as "potential weapons".
Between 2004 and 2014, the percentage never rose above 0.2%, and was typically below 0.1%. Over 99.9% of those New Yorkers were only guilty of being black.
How would people feel if an army of police entered their hometowns for over a decade and grabbed millions of their children?
How Henry Louis Gates Jr. chose Bloomberg is inexplicable. One must ask if it is because he only owns bespoke suits and flies in private jets.
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@Robert B Yes: it's all about the bespoke suits and private jets.
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@Robert B It is a conundrum, but murders also dropped by 50% during Bloomberg's terms, and perhaps saved more Black lives than were inappropriately stopped and frisked. It is a moral dilemma.
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@Robert B because he believes Bloomberg has the best chance of beating Trump. Pragmatism.
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I'm in the same situation as TDurk. All I've known about the subject here is the Beer Summit. While I've always been a Barack Obama fan, that event did seem a bit contrived. Knowing the backstory is very interesting. Prof. Gates views are also interesting and enlightening, especially regarding Michael Bloomberg. Mayor Bloomberg isn't "my guy" (I have a different mayor in mind), Prof. Gates does make a compelling argument for him.
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@Scott G "Mayor Pete"? My own favorite candidate, but perhaps he'll have to wait a few years.
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Great interview! I read “Signifying Monkey,” along with many other poststructural essays/books in graduate school. Then as now, I found deconstruction, et al, pretentious and rather silly. It’s refreshing to hear Prof. Gates intimate the same. I’m glad he wrote as he did back then to ensure his tenure, which then enabled he to pursue his interests. His sensible and honest approach to issues is a great credit to him. And his humility is quite admirable. I have even more respect for him than I did before and would enjoy having a “beer” and chat with him. I would enjoy his tremendous knowledge and infectious decency. Thanks for the terrific interview.
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Wonderful interview. Thank you, Dr. Gates. Thank you, NY Times.
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Fascinating interview. Remarkable candor about the Crowley incident and the genesis of the slave trade. Gates' gift to the public at large (for an honest discussion of racial problems in the USA) is that intellectually he doesn't let the instigators of bias and discrimination off the hook. To wit..."the need for another white guy" at the White House meeting; and, the African Kings didn't envision or create the "peculiar institution" of American slavery (and Jim Crow).
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It's important for social progress to have a clear-eyed view as his of what's possible and what's not given this country's history with the atrocities under white supremacy towards Blacks and Native Indians. An important topic rarely discussed - except for an interview given by Ta-Nehisi Coates is the psychic damage done to the enslaved. When considering methods of reparation, this should be given top priority. As mentioned by Gates, despite all the atrocities, Blacks are rising economically, but we need to look at social reforms for issues such as incarceration, drug and alcohol abuse, and how they are interlinked with generations of mental illnesses as a result of brutalities and inhumanities. We should ask why Holocaust survivors did better than these societies. I don't know the definitive answer, but I would think it had to do with them being "rescued" and treated humanely.
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@Shaida Watson how do you propose to qualify who is deserving of reparations and how how much? It seems to me that simply giving money (or property) to group of people, generations removed at best from slavery, is not going to meaningfully improve their situation in the long run and is likely to generate animosity between those that didn’t receive special treatment (see Native American reservations). Do you really think money/land reparations would really bring about meaningful changes that would persist a generation or two from now? Would only direct decendants of slavery be entitled, or anyone with African ancestry? If you want to be “color-blind” I.e treat everyone equally regardless of race how does this further your cause? Do you want successful black people to have others constantly wondering if their success is a result of reparations? How many generations removed from slavery do we need to be before existing generations of black folks stop pointing to it as an excuse for their perceived short comings?
@Zack Belcher You ask great questions Mr. Belcher! Oh, just because something is difficult to solve is not a reason to not try...
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@She I agree - no reason no to try, indeed we should. We just have to keep in mind that just having the best of intentions (righting the wrongs of slavery) don’t always lead to the best results if the method isn’t right. Thanks for your feedback, and good day you to :-)
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I will be re-reading Dr. Gates' works and respecting him from a totally different point of view, thanks to this honest, open and earthy exchange. Excellent questions from David Marchese; it sounds as if the conversation was flowing freely and could have gone on and on- the hallmark of genuine rapport- when it doesn't feel like an" interview " at all.
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I saw the article title and was so happy to read about someone I consider a brilliant, approachable, interesting 'friend." The world is a really tough place. Him in it makes it less scary and more hopeful. Thank you for the great article on Dr Gates.
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I am not a fan of Dr. Gates for many reasons, most of them having to do with his perception of history.
However, on an intellectual level, I am a fan of his because he makes you think. I love to watch his show because I like to hear about other people's family histories and because I don't think we spend enough time learning about each other. It's too bad he doesn't pick an average person off the street and do a show about them as we all have interesting backgrounds as much as the celebrities he focuses on.
If more people spent time delving into Dr. Gates's positions in life, what a tremendous societal dialogue we would have with each other.
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@Ed C You can't criticize people and then not back it up with evidence. Also, ordinary people do not appear on FYR because the population does not care to learn more about ordinary folks. However, there are a few scientists coming up in the next episode. Be sure to watch it.
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@Indisk Good points, thank you for replying. The space allowed does not permit me to back up my evidence. You'll have to trust my opinion.
Your comment about ordinary people bespeaks to the point I make. We'd care if we took the time to learn about the little people in the world instead of being star struck. Thanks!
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The complexity of race is staggering. There are systemic challenges. There are personal relationships. There is conflict everywhere. Dr. Gates is one of the few who says, "lets talk about it...all of it." I'm grateful for the intellect and courage of Dr. Gates to take this on.
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Thanks for this interview! I'm a long-time "fan" of Gates; I think his work as a scholar and public intellectual is a model for how to bring thought-provoking and challenging subject matter to a wide and diverse audience. We need more people capable of doing what he does. I have used his series "Black in Latin America" in my college classroom. My students really engage with it, and it provides me with a springboard to delve into more complicated scholarship on the topics it covers.
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Gates is a complicated guy. He's definitely an elitist with an affinity for billionaires (Bloomberg! Hutchins!). He sure does love the social dynamic on Martha's Vineyard. He is considered rather gauche by a lot of folks.
But I agree with him on a bunch of things. Based on all that I know, including a window into the life of Officer Crowley, is that Gates' comments about the incident are basically correct.
It is hard to become a credible public intellectual, and I think that Gates has done it.
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@Cousy I'm a little put-off by what appears to be your assumption that Mr. Gates is "an elitist with an affinity for billionaires". If he mentioned every one of the wide range of people he's encountered at critical junctures in his life or the places he's been, it would be a LONG list and you wouldn't know who or what he was referring to.
The article starts off referring to his celebrity, which gives him access to those billionaires. He is generous enough to allow the rest of us to see what he sees and that's not gauche at all.
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@Cousy "Gauche"?? "by a lot of folks"? That remark begs an explanation .
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@Cousy sounds like what you're saying is Gates is...complex. Just like humanity
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Thanks for this interview. Henry Louis Gates Jr. is a very interesting man, who helps to explain American history in some of the variations of shading that bring deeper understanding.
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This is probably the first article I've read about Henry Louis Gates Jr. Like everyone, I am familiar with the confrontation at his home with the cops and I've seen his PBS show once or twice.
He comes across as a level headed man who deeply understands that simple broad answers are no substitute for a nuanced comprehension of what makes people tick.
Terrific interview.
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@TDurk Then you're going to want to run down to your local library and get hold of Africa's Great Civilizations, presented by Prof. Gates, unless you can get it on PBS. A journey through a time machine that I hope rewards you while you watch, and long after it's over, too. Who knew so much of this?
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@TDurk
Very much so. This interview was well worth publishing.
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@TDurk
I enjoyed reading Prof. Gates' comments, but there are many reasons reparations are untenable:
1. Slavery ended in 1865 and most non-black Americans are descended from immigrants who arrived after 1865 and were not slave-holders, and thus do not owe reparations.
2. Many blacks are descended from Africans who came to the US after 1865 and therefore are not owed reparations.
3. Many blacks are of mixed race; will their payments be pro-rated on the percentage of black/slave ancestry? How will such ancestry be measured? DNA? Historic or genealogical records?
4. Will blacks descended from African tribes that captured members of other tribes and sold them into slavery receive reparations?
5. Do all taxpayers have to pay into a reparations fund, or only non-blacks?
6. Will rich blacks (e.g., the Obamas) receive reparations or will there be a cap on recipients' income?
7. Will illegal immigrants receive or pay reparations?
8. Will payments to blacks be reduced by the amounts paid for welfare, affirmative action and other benefits they and their ancestors have received since 1865?
9. Will reparations mean the end of affirmative action for blacks?
10. What about reparations for Native Americans, who lost so much land and so many lives?
11. Poor blacks are far outnumbered by poor whites and Hispanics; won't they be eligible for special payments, too?
If reparations are part of the 2020 Democratic platform Trump will be re-elected.
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