Come on Times, tell them what your readers want to hear. It was Trump’s fault!
1
Typical of a government to keep the info under wraps until necessary.
Sounds similar to the story of contamination caused by the destruction of the World Trade Center.
3
They need to actually clean the streets. That is to say, clear them of vehicles, and wash them and collect the water. Then do that five more times. That would be a good start, and it will hep. Lead stays pretty close to where it was released, so we are talking all of central Paris. This is not going to be easy, but it's easier than cleaning PCBs and dioxins. Then there needs to be a survey of HVAC systems; filters need to be collected and tested; and there needs to be an assessment of the situation. Nice thing about lead is it's not a carcinogen; mostly, it makes people stupid, which hardly anyone will notice these days.
2
So the facts are that (i) no one died from the fire, and (ii) no one has complained about some health issue related to the fire. Am I missing something?
1
Lead is not eliminated from the body. Lead in the blood is bound into bone...which can be released later in life.
So blood testing shows lead levels going down, but the lead is still there.
The only thing to do is test then do oral chelation.
Both the VA and NASA have moved to bone testing.
THIS is the kind of reporting I subscribe for. BRAVO!!!
2
I’m glad that we ruled out Paris as our home seventeen years ago when we decided to be expatriates in France.
We explored Paris for three weeks as our new home because it is the city in France where over eighty percent of American expats decide to live.
We decided to rule out big city life and all its tribulations and opted for a village in Provence with its charm of vineyards and olive trees. Paris is easily accessible by the high speed train, TGV. Provence has the best weather with more sunny days , a warmer climate, and less rain than Paris.
France also was not open and honest about radiation danger to children after the Chernoble disaster near Kiev, telling people that the radiation stopped at the German border. In fact, the radiation was absorbed by children’s thyroid glands in France and will cause problems all their lives.
A healthy skepticism is good advice for all those who are tempted to believe government. Better to find out for yourself!
No mention was made of the major hospital whose entrance is directly on the Notre Dame Plaza right in front on the highest pollution area.
What an incredible article! How many hours of preparation?
Congratulations on this terrific column - Well Done!
Hats off to:
Mona Boshnaq, Umi Syam and Gaia Tripoli.
Elian Peltier reported from Paris, and James Glanz, Weiyi Cai and Jeremy White from New York.
1
The Deep State, whether French, British, EU, or US, is always afraid to make people afraid… even in cases where people should be not just afraid, but made to be afraid. Not being afraid of what one should be afraid of, when being afraid would force people to fix a lethal problem, and when being afraid is the only way to make people fix the problem, is not just stupid and immoral, but it’s deeply undemocratic.
Democracy without transparency is lunacy and invites larceny.
The planet’s biosphere is on the brink of collapse, from mass extinctions, the CO2 crisis, global warming, sea level rise, countless biocides, pesticides, fertilizers, gender-bending chemicals, aerosol air and heavy metal pollution, the nitrogen cycle crisis, plus nuclear proliferation and thus war, around the corner.
Transparency is crucial, as it fosters full, and thus honest thinking. To try to figure it out and serialize the problems. One would hope that the headquarters of what is arguably the oldest center of modern civilization would be aware of the need for transparency, thus debate and advancing intelligence.
“We are facing a widespread issue around lead,” Ms. Souyris said. “It goes beyond Notre-Dame, but since there is no norm for public spaces, we need a bigger plan against lead in Paris.’’
One theory about the decay of Roman civilization and its state, is that they got contaminated by lead. Could that apply to Paris? Could that help to explain mental shortcomings of the government there?
1
“We are facing a widespread issue around lead,” Ms. Souyris said. “It goes beyond Notre-Dame, but since there is no norm for public spaces, we need a bigger plan against lead in Paris.’’
One theory about the decay of Rome is that it got contaminated by lead. Something to think about.
The attitude relative to lead contamination is typical of "democratic" governments nowadays.
The Deep State, whether French, British, EU, or US, is always afraid to make people afraid… even in cases where people should be not just afraid, but made to be afraid. Not being afraid of what one should be afraid of, when being afraid would force people to fix a lethal problem, and when being afraid is the only way to make people fix the problem, is not just stupid and immoral, but it’s deeply undemocratic.
Democracy without transparency is lunacy and invites larceny.
The planet’s biosphere is on the brink of collapse, from mass extinctions, the CO2 crisis, global warming, sea level rise, countless biocides, pesticides, fertilizers, gender-bending chemicals, aerosol air and heavy metal pollution, the nitrogen cycle crisis, plus nuclear proliferation and thus war, around the corner.
Transparency is crucial, as it fosters full, and thus honest thinking. To try to figure it out and serialize the problems. One would hope that the headquarters of what is arguably the oldest center of modern civilization would be aware of the need for transparency, thus debate and advancing intelligence.
1
Hoping this does not sound too idealistic...it seems to me that the French government at all levels might just say, “ Here is the situation, this is what we can do in public areas, and this is what the health professionals say you can do in your own homes and neighbors to help clean up where you can.”.
I believe if the government disseminated good, practical advise to people, the public would respond positively and go for it.
I believe NYers would have too.
If you credit folks with intelligence and empower them, they will do for themselves. Be honest with the people!
1
In classic Roman Catholic tradition, a building, a symbol, an expensive "thing" is valued more than the people themselves. Do you think Jesus would have approved?
Isn't it interesting that national ego and political football are more important than human health. What will the long term payback be for the inestimable but significant damage as kids with lead issues become voters and/or public burdens?
How quickly we raised billions to repair an ugly unsafe building and yet can't do the same for so many humanitarian needs.
Thanks, religion!
I want to applaud the outstanding graphics of this article along with the Pulitzer Prize level reporting. The research that went into the reporting is another example of why I consult the New York Times every morning. Kudos to reporters Peltier, Glanz, Cai, and White.
Lead had been used for centuries as a roofing, flashing and cladding material for buildings. Many European cities have old churches with lead details. The US Capital building has a good deal of lead on it and many historic houses in the US have standing seam terne coated roofs (terne is historically a term used for a lead coating, generally on a steel or copper substrate). Often the terne coated product is painted but not always. A zinc based coating replaced lead coating a few decades ago in the US and still uses the terne terminology.
Believe it or not some architects still specify lead materials for building exteriors like the capital building in DC. Once the lead develops an oxide on the surface it is fairly stable and not extremely hazardous unless an event like the Notre Dame fire releases large quantities of it into the environment. Still some weathering/erosion occurs naturally and the lead does get very slowly released into the environment over time.
So, the question remains - what to do? Given the problem in Paris decontamination is essential. As for the rest of the buildings throughout the world, suggest that maintenance and new construction utilize other materials such as painted, zinc or zinc coated metals, or stainless steel with non directional embossed finishes be considered. Paint is least expensive, zinc and zinc based coating falls in the middle but has some design limitations while stainless steel steel will last as long ( or longer than the lead).
1
What about the lead dust that clearly landed in the Seine? That would propagate the poison downstream and into the foodchain.
This article was so long that it buried the importance of testing the workers, their children and local children for lead levels.
Very comprehensive piece but the takeaways should be highlighted early in the article.
1
When will bureaucrats ever learn that people freak out more from not being told the truth than when there is transparency, concern and appropriate timely action taken addressing real risks. In this case, in some countries there would be lawsuits alleging criminal liability. The fire itself was a tragic accident, but ex-post cover-ups are not.
1
Thank you for this great coverage.
I work with metal and have done lead casting- it has a distinctive yellow smoke when it burns which was clearly visible during the fire. I was so sickened by seeing all of that lead being released during the fire that I actually tried contacting Paris authorities, to no avail. People should have been warned, windows and vent ducts closed, and other precautions taken. Was I the only one who saw this unfolding? The affects of lead exposure are very damaging, especially to children. If I were a parent in Paris, I'd keep my children far away from the exposure zone.
1
The clinical evidence that lead is bad for children is overwhelming. The history of lead contamination is difficult to understand. Fifty years ago the average concentration of lead in blood was over 20 micrograms per deciliter for both adults and children. The article states the current standard in France is 2.5 micrograms per deciliter. Since lead was taken out of gasoline, blood lead concentrations have been reduced by over 90 percent. However, anyone over the age of 50 was exposed to lead in amounts that are now considered harmful. Now many of us use this fact to explain the current state of the world. However, being well over that age myself perhaps it is me that does not understand. Of course, most of the clinical research that supports the dangerous nature of lead was done by people who were exposed to dangerous levels of lead as children. There are no easy answers.
1
For those in a lead-contaminated area, there are some simple precautions. First, before entering your dwelling, remove your "street" shoes and put them in a plastic bag. Second, do not open windows for ventilation, as lead-dust can enter. Third, avoid bringing into your dwelling clothes worn outside (change to "inside clothes" before entering, if possible). Fourth, wipe-down all floors, tables, shelves, etc. using damp paper towels, and put used towels in a plastic bag. Fifth, wash hands upon entry into your dwelling after changing to "inside" clothes.
I realize this is burden some. But these steps will limit the ingress of lead and its ingestion.
2
If one of the neurological sequelae of lead poisoning is loss of common sense, then perhaps the French authorities' disclaimer - that there has been a long-standing, preexisting problem in Paris with lead pollution - has merit.
Bad jokes aside, however, the possibility of widespread atmospheric heavy metal poisoning needs to be treated as an acute threat whose outcome, ironically, will not be realized for many years - as is being evidenced by the Chernobyl nuclear disaster.
I'm not the only person with a chemistry background who saw that yellow smoke and knew it was toxic. While that was surely not top of mind for Parisians or government officials that night, the danger of the plume and its fallout must've been immediately suspected by enough high-level officials to understand the risks it posed. This was not a French reaction (or lack thereof) but a bureaucratic one. Let private and public bureaucracies learn from this: Create systems that don't allow for this to happen in future crises.
1
@e w In the vast majority of countries, management of public affairs is in the hands of those negligent at best, and murderous at worst.
Most, who seek positions at government agencies - no matter the country - want: (a) a satisfying career with a good pension; or (b) to gain or to expand technical expertise, that boosts their pay in a private-sector entity (for-profit or non-profit).
So, officials rarely want to be seen by their seniors (or by those in an industry) as a "trouble-maker". Most such officials - whose scientifically-sound work is ignored or abused - simply "go along to get along".
Thus, it should not be presumed that officials will best serve ordinary residents.
So, law-makers need to enact: (a) specific criminal penalties, when officials' neglect does real harm (as is the case in Paris, France or Flint, Michigan [lead-poisoned water]); (b) a right of private action, so an individual can hire an attorney to bring criminal charges against a negligent public official, if a prosecutor refuses to do so; (c) that tax dollars will be used to reimburse the costs of a private action, at the attorney's usual hourly rate, with the bills being paid within 30 days, after which a 50% penalty applies. Only the very wealthy can afford to litigate with a government agency.
Public officials' neglect of duty explains why so many risk their lives to get into the U.S., wherein public officials usually try to serve their employers, i.e., the rank-and-file residents.
In French news there have been fairly regular reports concerning the increase in lead levels within the close proximity of Notre Dame since the fire.
As in any old European city that still has some lead pipes, and has used lead in construction, there is already a baseline of contamination.
I worry more about air pollution here from cars. On the positive side, growth hormones are prohibited in meat production here. Prophylactic use of antibiotics in animals was banned in the EU in 2018.
Plus France uses much less pesticides than the USA and our chickens are not dipped in bleach after slaughter. I'll take the limited exposure to contaminants here any day over what I grew up with back home in America!
1
@Cheriekiss Dipping slaughtered chickens in "bleach" is a great idea. Bleach is a top-notch biocide: it kills bacteria and viruses. It does so quickly and is fully removed by flushing with clean water.
Chlorine - added to swimming-pool water - helps to prevent infections. Most would not want to swim in a pool, that had not been treated with chlorine.
Modern car engines - with the possible exception of those that burn diesel oil - are generally air-cleaners.
1
The greatest generation of Americans (WWII) and its legions of legendary engineers, physicists, diplomats, etc. grew up surrounded by leaded paint, fuel, glasses, etc. They turned out OK.
Obviously lead is to be avoided, but it’s not worthy of hysteria. Particularly when it has resulted from an ancient building with no building codes. And when, short of putting families lives on hold indefinitely or moving them to some sort of refugee complex, what was France to do? It’s most likely they feared an overreaction by the public they would be ill equipped to handle.
I’m sure most of the commenters on this blog would have handled what to do with a dense population center very easily..
4
@Nick T.
Lead is a poison. It accumulates in the body. It affects children the worst.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/symptoms-causes/syc-20354717
All you have to do is look at population data before lead was eliminated in gas vs after lead was eliminated from gas.
Or look at the effects of lead poisoning on Soldiers from shooting the M16/M4.
Denying that a poison exists is a strategy I guess. But go ahead..... sprinkle lead on your family's food.
http://whatworksforhealth.wisc.edu/program.php?
"The test results may in part reflect broader underlying problems with lead contamination in Paris."
That's an easy enough hypothesis to test. Take lead levels at various places around the city away from the cathedral, especially in the oldest neighbourhoods, to arrive at a baseline against which to compare the area around Notre-Dame.
4
I would like to know where all the roof lead went—roughly 460 tons I've read. Someone must have analyzed that. It didn't vaporize (boiling point 3164°F, fire max est. 2500°F). Some certainly oxidized to PbO (possible source of yellow smoke) or was carried off on wood cinders. But when Reims Cathedral burned from WW1 bombardment the lead roof melted and ran out through gargoyles. There's one on display there. I haven't seen any photos showing gargoyles spewing congealed lead or lumps of hardened lead at Notre-Dame.
@Cyndy
Lead will burn (oxidize into PBO) well before the boiling point- try it-throw some in a campfire. But don't breathe that could of nasty cloud yellow smoke! I bet many tons of the lead went up into air judging by the density of yellow smoke- which was clearly lead- documented in pictures and video.
I do not think for a minute American authorities would have done even this well.
1
Three Mile Island. Chernobyl. 9/11. Fukushima Daiichi. And now Notre Dame. Again and again, authorities opt to save face and avoid public panic instead of protecting the health of their citizens and employees. It is disturbing that architect Phillipe Villeneuve is concerned not with the welfare of workers but with possible construction slowdowns and inefficiencies. Is it because seeing to the welfare of works is not financially lucrative? I hope those workers negatively impacted by lead exposure do not face the health care battle that 9/11 responders did.
1
I worry about my friends in Paris. While we have had our share of terrorism with gun violence here in the States, we are a huge, spread out country, so that when there is a shooting incident or natural disaster my friends throughout the world don't automatically assume or fear that I have been directly harmed. However, Paris is the French city that has seemed, in recent years, to have experienced the most localized disasters. The burning of Notre Dame was bad enough. Now its consequences are threatening the population. Once again, I worry about my friends in Paris.
8
@Marti Klever Er, France is not exactly Lichtenstein size-wise and consists of a lot more than Greater Paris...
5
@Marti Klever
How many lives were lost from the Notre Dame Fire?
How many overturned Obama regulations on environmental safety to include clean water has Trump overturned? I could go on but I would suggest we worry more about our own backyard. It really needs our undivided attention right now.
Kudos to the Times for doing what responsible journalism should do.
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@Marti Klever
I would really worry about Islamic Terrorism. Not just in Paris, but anywhere else in the West.
Those miscreants are out to destroy as much of Western Civilization as they can.
6
So what are they going to do about the lead contamination problem? Evacuate thousands of people from these contaminated areas? Where are they going to put them? Close down schools? Shut down the economy in the area? Create panic? Yes, workers in the site can wear masks or they can be rotated so as to mitigate exposure time, but it is impossible to do much about this otherwise (the rich can relocate for some time or permanently, or they can send their kids to other schools, but the majority of residents in these areas cannot afford those security protections). I suppose that is why the French government did not publicize the environmental problem. Sometimes too much information does become a problem, if not much can be done about it anyway..
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@tdb A lot can be done about it, if there were initial transparency about the nature and extent of the exposure.
2
@tdb
"Lead abatement can improve health outcomes for children and adults by reducing developmental disorders, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder-related behaviors (ADHD), anemia, hypertension, and kidney and brain damage (Armstrong 2014, Berg 2012, NCHH-Jacobs 2009). Newborn infants are especially vulnerable to effects of lead exposure (Vigeh 2014); a St. Louis-based study suggests prenatal screening and proactive lead hazard remediation, including soil remediation, can prevent exposure among some newborns (Berg 2012). Reduced lead exposure may be linked to reductions in violent crime roughly twenty years after exposure would have occurred (Wolpaw Reyes 2015, NBER-Wolpaw Reyes 2007, Feigenbaum 2015).
Lead contaminated soil abatement efforts clean, remove, replace, or cover contaminated soil. Permanent efforts remove contaminated soil, test what remains, and cover it with non-contaminated soil, or, cover contaminated soil with asphalt or concrete. Interim abatement measures cover contaminated soil with non-contaminated soil, mulch, sod, or grass (US EPA-Lead hazard training 2004). Contaminated soil can also be cleaned by physically encapsulating contaminants, chemically reducing contaminant mobility, or extraction (Mulligan 2001). "
2
@tdb
The consequences of lead ingestion to a child are dire. No parent that was made aware of the risk would tolerate it. This is knowledge you can't hide forever--but you can hide it long enough to insure the futures of perhaps dozens of children are compromised. France is a large enough country that this problem could have been substantially reduced had the risk been acknowledged. Certainly at great cost. Now that the problem is out in the open, let's see how many people choose to tolerate it because dealing with it is too much bother and expense.
2
Shades of 911. I lived near the WTC. I remember the EPA announcing air and water tests showed no threat about three months after the attacks. I remember the burning in my throat, the nausea, the headaches.
So, tell the French first responders and their families there's no threat just as our government did our first responders and their families. Tell the people in the surrounding arrondissements it's safe to raise your families in the area. Maybe the French "Government" is following our lead in this regard same as they so often do.
43
@Laura,,,3 months after 9/11 i walked the site and lower Manhattan. It smelled like death. Burning flesh. 3 months after the fact. and fires were still burning.
6
@Laura. Unfortunately, I can confirm your experience from my own, first-hand. That acrid stench and chronic throat irritation was there for months. And, remember how Whitman lied about it being "safe to live and work in the area"?
7
After 9/11 the EPA (spokesperson Christy Whitman, if I recall) announced that the site was safe. Now we all know otherwise, and those brave responders and tireless workers from the site pay the ultimate price.
Folks living in Paris, don't trust government agencies to keep you informed! You must use your common sense and take whatever measures you can to get out of harms way. Err on the side of caution. Be proactive, even if it means dramatically changing where and how you live.
France relies so heavily on tourism, it cannot afford to tell the truth, leaving its own population at risk.
73
@Jeanette
So what kind of measures can folks take? Emigrate? Evacuate? Once the lead is in the body, nothing to do about it. Only rich can have the luxury to relocate.
2
@Jeanette
Christine Todd Whitman was more than an EPA spokesperson. She was the head of the agency. Previously, she was Governor of New Jersey, from which she resigned to take the EPA position. As Governor, she cut taxes irresponsibly and to balance the budget, stopped making contributions to the State Employee Pension Fund. Her short term successor as Governor, Donald DeFrancesco, to balance the budget, gave enormous pension incentives for senior, higher paid State employees to retire, further harming the pension fund, and depleting State government itself of its most experienced staff.
Today, the New Jersey pension fund is about $55 billion in the hole, and the State bond rating went from AAA to near junk.
I would have a problem identifying any public servant who caused more harm than Ms Whitman. If I were her, I would have trouble sleeping at night.
17
@Jeanette. I lived and still live close to the World Trade Center site, and vividly recall the acrid stench that emanated from the site for many, many weeks after 09/11. I also remember the blatant lies from the Bush administration, especially Ms. Whitman, telling us there was nothing to worry about breathing that air.
Regarding the lead situation in Paris, it would be especially interesting when the authorities first became aware of the problem, and how soon after the fire government officials started to show up in masks and protective gear when visiting the site. That's probably the time when at least some of them realized that this is a serious problem.
12
It's deja vu for me as I remember the 9/11 environmental catastrophe that occurred in Lower Manhattan after the World Trade Center buildings collapsed and the resultant fires which were not completely extinguished until November 2001. We were told by governmental authorities that the air was safe to breathe, yet first responders and Lower Manhattan residents and workers are dying of cancers due to exposure to toxic materials.
I am extremely saddened that a similar scenario is occurring across the Atlantic.
I’d be curious to hear what Christie Whitman’s suggestions are..... Reading about the government’s response made for a nice juxtaposition with Soviet Russia post-Chernobyl.
@Austin,,, All governmental authorities will lie to you,
If this had been any other building than a Roman Catholic Church, the authorities would be up in arms about the contamination. This is reinforced by the fact that the Cathedral is a big tourist attraction for which the government is responsible. (So much for their separation of church and state.) They want to limit their liability by downplaying the risk and making sure there is little evidence from harm by restricting blood tests. This is typical government behavior.
1
Who's paying for the cleanup?
I admit to not reading the article.
I'm just curious who is picking up the tab on this disaster.
The site should be made into an outdoor sculpture garden.
Plans to rebuild are an absurd waste of energy, materials, and treasure.
RIP.
1
The spikes of lead concentration levels in the neighborhoods near Notre Dame are a public health crisis regardless of their source. Arguing about whether or not they come from the Notre Dame fire is like the crew of the Titanic arguing about which compartments were compromised.
These lead concentrations are a public health emergency, and people will die if it is not addressed.
I commend the photographers and writers for such a beautiful expose. Exposure to the toxic plume of smoke causes irreversible human damage and contamination of property. Why didn't Paris close off the entire region including central Paris for full testing? Perhaps even the water supply was contaminated.
I was born in the 7th arrondisement and lived in Paris until I was 5. It is surprising to see that France so concerned about the environment fail to protect its own people. Although in the immediate vicinity of the cathedral, pregnant women and children 7 or under were tested quickly there was no urgency across the Seine. There was a delay of 4 months to decide to clean the neighborhood within 1/2 mile with 6000 children exposed. Even reconstruction and clean up workers in the cathedral had to protest the astronomical lead they were not protected against.
This reminds me of the search for bodies in the aftermath of World Trade Center attack that allowed workers to be exposed to toxic dust for weeks while a smoldering fire was in their midst. Even housekeeping workers in Wall Street offices were exposed without masks or gear. I have met a WTC office cleaner diagnosed with mesothelioma.
1
@Nadine "This reminds me of the search for bodies in the aftermath of World Trade Center attack that allowed workers to be exposed to toxic dust for weeks while a smoldering fire was in their midst."
The key equipment item to be worn when ordinary or known toxic dusts are present is an industrial respirator. These can be had at a home-improvement store for about $40. These units have filter canisters, that trap dusts and adsorb most toxic gases.
Let me be clear: dust masks - of the sorts worn in hospitals or sold in paint stores - are useless. They do not conform very well to the wearer's face, so do provide an occlusive seal: the wearer will inhale dust and toxic gases, if present.
Those, who: sand sheetrock (or other materials), dry-saw concrete, run law-mowers, work in/near grain elevators, etc., are miners, etc., need to wear a respirator, NOT a dust "mask".
Our lungs do not efficiently expel ultra-fine dust particles. A steady inflow of these particles gradually reduces lung capacity to transfer oxygen. That means a heart must move more blood to deliver a given amount of oxygen. So, dust-loaded lungs - even if the dust is not a toxin - add to a heart's burdens. That's not good.
Had those assigned to the WTC site been issued respirators and spare filter cartridges, few would have been damaged, especially if - on leaving the site - they changed into clean clothes (including their shoes). The contaminated clothes should have been bagged until laundered.
2
@Nadine,,,"Why didn't Paris close off the entire region including central Paris for full testing? "
One word: money.
Another "Big Story" with tremendous sensation but without much perspective. The amount of lead contamination from Notre Dame pales in comparison to the amount of lead spewed from automobiles from the 1920's and the 1980's just in France and worldwide. As a firefighter I know most of the lead and contaminants went upward with the heat and depending on the wind went either to Germany or Britain or Sweden to Spain - and maybe further in infinite amounts. My father sprayed lead arsenate on agricultural crops and got wet with the stuff. I'm not saying we'd do that today but he's 94 and feeling pretty good.
5
@djwhy
You may be a firefighter. Your father may have got wet with lead arsenate. But I'm going to go with the scientific evidence that lead is not good for humans and interferes with childhood development.
1
When the Tchernobyl nuclear catastrophe happened, our authorities claimed that the toxic clouds "had stopped at the border".
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
1
I am just wondering how the artist Ansel Kiefer living in France (Seine-et-Marne outside Paris) gets away with using the tons and tons of lead.
Since buying the lead roof of Cologne's cathedral in 1985 as it was renovated, he has used parts of it in many works, reflecting a penchant for recycling and fascination with all forms of alchemy.
In August 2016, thieves damaged a sculpture valued at some 1.5 million euros ($1.65 million) at Kiefer's warehouse.
In 2007 and 2008, thieves stole 22 lead sculptures with a total weight of 7.5 tonnes, recovered later in very poor condition.
I wonder if the same environmental laws apply to all citizens and tax payers of the French Republic.............
3
With lead everywhere, it is still safe to visit Paris?
Hmm.
How does you say, "Nothing to see here, move along” in french?
I'll bet the Elysee Palace, the residence of Emmanuel Macron, his wife, and three children, was inspected, and if contaminated, thoroughly cleaned immediately after the fire.
The palace is 1.6 miles (2.6 kilometers) from the cathedral.
4
@Mel Farrell... guaranteed. no longer than 1 day
And I thought Flint, Michigan was bad!
Confusion, different departments with different agendas....the ones hurt are the children and unborn babies of the area.
They need to test all children and babies in the hazardous area, and pregnant women, and workers at the Cathedral and their families. Mandatorily and the sooner the better.
They could pretend a small nuclear device had been set off in the area: its really not so different.
2
Not a huge surprise that governments everywhere hide the public health effects of disasters. People at Fukushima tried in vain to find out how dangerous it was. The problem was not just a lack of information, but rather misleading numbers. Same at Chernobyl and in NYC on 9/11. Now Paris. I think the lesson is to take strong precautions despite what authorities say and in the long run try to get some sense of how bad it was.
4
There was about 200,000 tonnes of lead deposited annually by gasoline in Europe in the 1970's. A whole bunch of that would have been in Paris, and that's each year.
8
This is just so depressing. Not just being reminded again about this horrible fire, but that the aftermath seems to be running as smoothly as the fire suppression systems did. The French people deserve much more.
3
This is not just a problem for the parks and school yards. This toxic fallout has been deposited on everything. Rooftops are a huge "surface area", where the contaminants will continue to be blown off. Windowsills, and all the nooks and crannies of every old and new building within the fallout zone and beyond. Trees, shrubs, etc. How many autos carried their deposits all over the city and beyond the zone?
I'm all in with protecting the children, but lets come to grips with how this bullet is not only aimed at them. Its the same here in the US. We tend to under emphasize how large a target are our own toxic emissions are aimed at.
Children and cute animals make for good public health and environmental health risk poster imagery, but we're all being targeted by such contaminant exposure. Everyday, all day.
Too many adults remain apathetic about the risks these incidents - accidental or intentional - impose on them as well.
5
@Boregard
Every time it rains and drains in Paris, lead is running out the drainage systems which goes into the rivers and out into the ocean, eventually. What happens to eevery thing along the way?
2
We worry mostly about our current contributions to pollution, but this report shows that the artifacts of our history are potential polluters, too.
It's time.
2
@David Behrman:
not being rude, but "its time" for what?
In the U.S. we have amazingly few 800 year old buildings.
And don't worry, Trump is busy destroying the ancient Chaco National Park, where thousands of people lived between 850-1250 AD....oh, but they built out of mud and
rock.....
https://www.nps.gov/chcu/index.htm
1
The ability of Government to classify things as a 'secret' means that they will suppress any and all information that merely puts them into an awkward position. The Government didn't put the lead in the roof of Notre-Dame, but they suppressed the information anyway. According to the article: “They thought that they would protect people by not communicating about the lead issue”
All this does is reduce the trust of the people.
Here in Minneapolis we have the same problem. On May 7, 2019 Ricin was found in an apartment near the University of Minnesota Twin Cities campus. The FBI confirmed that it was Ricin. And then 'poof'...not a peep of information in the news. Is the dearth of information supposed to comfort me?
7
@W Get tested for Ricin exposure if you suspect you have been poisoned. Pay for it yourself if you want valid results. Then sue your city if you have been exposed (I think there is no safe level for Ricin...)
Why are the parents in Paris not testing themselves and their kids for lead? Surely, they are not relying on the inefficient French government to solve their problems! It's not expensive (compared to treating lead poisoning and permanent disabilities) to test for lead in the US - it's a problem for all buildings which were painted before 1979 which is when lead in paint was finally outlawed 200 years after lead in paint was known to cause deformities, brain damage, and permanent inpairment neurologically.
1
After reading this i am once again amazed that our species ever came up with languages that groups of people would agree upon and then fully endorse. And they would last awhile. Talk about massive disorganization in the great city of Paris. Shocking, just shocking. I guess we could say how on earth did they ever get that beautiful Gothic church built in the first place. It's almost like a miracle and i am not religious.
In its way Paris and Notre Dame is a beacon for all people on this planet.
1
Great article.
The French authorities messed up, the same way they did with the Chernobyl cloud of radioactive dust.
However, it should be reminded that under the US standards for lead, almost none of the schools would be considered contaminated! Here is the EPA rule:
"Under the 2001 dust-lead hazard standards, lead is considered a hazard when equal to or exceeding 40 micrograms (µg) of lead in dust per square foot (ft2) on floors, 250 micrograms of lead in dust per square foot on interior window sills, and 400 parts per million (ppm) of lead in bare soil in children's play areas or 1200 ppm average for bare soil in the rest of the yard."
So we are comparing inside standards of 6.5 mg (Fr) against 40 to 250 mg (US), outdoor reading of above 93 mg (Fr) against 400 to 1200.
In other words: if your kids go to school in a major US city, like NYC or LA, they would still be better off in one of the schools near Notre Dame!
18
@Fliegender:
frightening thought! And unacceptable!
2
Nothing new here.
We let corporate owned governments, everywhere on our planet, engage in out-of-control predatory capitalism, in literally everything affecting life and living everywhere, trusting them to do the right thing, and in spite of overwhelming evidence that they have zero concern for the welfare and wellbeing of billions of people, we, the teeming billions who could stop them cold, do little or nothing.
What is wrong with us; when did we lose the drive to protect our children and ourselves from these soulless corporate Gods.
We had better wake up, and wise up, real soon, otherwise it will be too late.
7
@Mel Farrell:
I agree with your point, but no one knew Notre Dame would burn and the smoke would disperse lead all over the area....no way to prevent that.
YES, the French government should have acted immediately....
How reminiscent of the situation around Ground Zero following 9/11 -- and look what happened there.
8
@Itzajob:
for the statistics on illnesses and deaths to first responders since 9/11, see:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/09/11/18-years-on-911-illnesses-devastating-first-responders-infographic/#5d22f46b343a
NEW YORK city contamination after 9/11, PARIS city contamination after NOTRE DAME fire. Authorities tell us it’s ok to return in the vicinity of the catastrophe sites. In both cases it is or was, blatant dereliction of duty or conspiracy to misinform and much of the media didn’t or doesn’t report enough or stays too quiet.
6
@C.KLINGER
The government deliberately lied to people. Many people including first responders were permanent disabled made sick, or died as a result.
No one has been held responsible.
Most modern sites have a fire plan that include lists of harmful products, building materials and how to put them out in case of fire. Does this not apply to historical sites in a civilized country? That knowledge of dangerous lead in the building appears to be kept as a dirty secret for too long to resemble a cover up on the obvious: Warn the public as soon as possible. I am afraid the real fallout would not be entirely known for years.
2
@Yogiisms, Lead, a dirty secret? The presence of lead on the roof s of churches and palaces is known since centuries. The ND roof has been redonne in the middle of the XIX th century. The same for many cathédrals in Europe. It is certainly not a secret.
5
@Yogiisms Lead isn’t a secret to people familiar with the history of construction. Lead is a very common building material for ancient structures - it was used the way caulk, rubber, tar, and plastics are used in modern construction.
However, I agree with your comment about fire plans. Whether we’re talking about Notre Dame or the aftermath of the collapse of the World Trade Centers, authorities need to take steps immediately to identify and limit human exposures to toxic dust and gasses, and have established (and resourced) plans to identify, track and remove contamination after a disaster.
6
@P. Munstead:
but did people then understand that lead poisoning could permanently destroy or damage a child's brain then?
We know it now, so we should act on it.
If they had showered water from above like Trump suggested -- for which he was ridiculed -- this spread of toxic lead dust could have been avoided or minimized.
Apparently Macron's ego could not give in and accept that Trump was correct, even if that meant harming his own people.
6
@Bhaskar
If they had bombed water from above, as Trump suggested, it would have made the whole building collapse. For one thing. Then it would have spread the lead, which was already melted, all over the place. For a second.
One can always count on Trump voters to proudly boast of their low intelligence.
12
@Bhaskar, maybe Trump wants to nuke the fire, like he did with hurricanes.
6
@Bhaskar Do you actually believe that? Water from above would most certainly have had a catastrophic effect on Notre Dame, probably leading to its total destruction. As was outlined in an earlier Times article, the fire crews knew that collapse was imminent, even with the extraordinary efforts they took. Trump's ill-advised and off-the-cuff idea would make made sure of that.
Stop trying to prop up this President and ask yourself for a moment; why would Trump know ANYTHING about firefighting? And what would he know about medieval architecture?
12
Tragic but not surprising. Various authorities were clearly both deceitful and incompetent.
Recommend the replacement roof be slate, black tiles, or very dark gray glass.
Thankfully construction during the Middle Ages did not use asbestos.
4
@scott ochiltree
Even prior to the Notre Dame fire, structural engineers were worried about replacing or working on the roof - or even adding the weight of fire fighting systems with water tanks in the attic - because they were, rightfully, very concerned about the bearing ability of the limestone walls of Notre Dame. Acid rain (caused by factories and auto exhaust, etc.) has been damaging historic limestone buildings in France since the start of the industrial revolution in the 17th century.
Structural engineers hired by the French government were concerned about the structure of Notre Dame before the fire, according to reseaarch by the NY Times.
There is a big debate, always, in historic building reconstruction about how far to go with modern technology and materials, and how much of the original materials and structure to restore or replace.
We don't hear about it, but I imagine that this is a topic of a lot of debate in the French government. Their known practices and decisions have not been reassuring.
My personal opinion is that the building needs to be brought up to current structural building and fire fighting codes to protect it for a long life. This would unavoidably mean using newer materials for parts of the buildikng - steel, reinforced concrete, perhaps a copper roof which could be finished any color.
This is sacrireligious to historic reconstructionists but there are lives and health at stake in rebuilding NOTRE Dame.
5
"It's safe to visit Paris" said Christine Todd Whitman.
5
@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman
You are making a joke of course. For those who don't know she said that to the rescuers and people at Ground Zero immediately after the collapse on 9/11 that they didn't need hazmat gear because Ms Whitman as head of EPA said the air was tested as clean . She lied about the data. They are sick now from the unprotected exposure.
3
No surprise that pro-corporate anti-pension Macron would be more worried about not letting tourists realize they should give the disaster zone a wide berth than about anyone's health.
He's better than the vile racist Le Pen, and the yellowjackets' whines about wise, forward-thinking petrol taxes are counterproductive when the CLIMATE is on the line. But France coulda had a Mélenchon V8...
6
I happen to think the the lead contamination problem in Paris, along with places like Flint, MI is overblown and based on possibly undue extrapolations of "no safe dose" assumptions. While it may be true that, when it comes to lead in the human body, the less the better, it can also be instructive to consider evidence of what the result of an environment when people have levels 20 times higher, and that we may not have to panic.
Based on the current literature contending a strong correlation between lead levels in the blood of children and cognitive ability, levels that exceed an ever decreasing level are assumed to cause severe and unrecoverable social problems. But I have to imagine that the strongest data on this correlation is for very high levels extrapolated to lower levels. But I would think that if this were true, the western world would have been blessed with a great burgeoning if children's intelligence since the 1970's when median levels were 150% of what is now considered needing medical intervention; 30 µg/ml in 1976 vs 0.85µg/ml today. The largest meaningful action concerning lead, the banning of leaded gasoline, managed to remove about 95% of human exposure.
The current method of setting levels, according to the level found in the highest 2.5% of children, means that there will never meet a safe level.
4
@Bob "But I would think that if this were true, the western world would have been blessed with a great burgeoning if children's intelligence since the 1970's":
We do, in fact, see exactly that.
One of the more publicized outcomes (cf https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/#68925e8212c4) is the nationwide fall in violent crime rates, especially among young people. It has now been well documented that this was caused by decreasing lead exposures. A predilection for violence is one of the best-understood symptoms of low-level lead poisoning among children. The reduction in crime rates happened in cites and towns that made no changes at all in their police and enforcement policies, so it is not a result of such changes. It takes several decades for low-level lead poisoning of infants to show itself as violent behavior of adults.
One of the more compelling graphics of the several peer-reviewed research papers demonstrating this relationship is how the rise in violent crime nationwide parallels the rise in lead exposures from leaded gas nationwide delayed by two decades.
Eliminating lead in gasoline in the 1970s solved America's violent crime problem of the 1990s.
1
@Bob:
so, what is your point? If you had young kids and lived in Paris, you'd just be fine about it?
I don't believe anything French authorities say. They stated the fire was not caused by criminal activity before they had time to investigate the fire thoroughly. I wish someone other than the French were in charge of the restoration.
4
@TH Do you propose the same team in charge of the reconstruction of Porto-Rico, or New Orleans? I see that French bashing is still on amidst the trumpian troops
3
If this happened in America, trump would just kill regs on what constitutes dangerous levels of lead and then proclaim everyone would be fine.
9
Sadly that area will be looking at an increase in crime rates amongst others problems.
via Mother Jones - “Lead: America’s Real Criminal Element”
“In the early 70s the United States began to phase out leaded gasoline and newborns became steadily less lead poisoned. Like clockwork, as the leading edge of this generation became teenagers in the early 90s, the crime wave started to recede. By 2010, an entire generation of teenagers and young adults—the age group responsible for most crime—had grown up nearly lead free, and the violent crime rate had plummeted to half or less of its high point. This happened across the board: in big and small cities; among blacks and whites; in every state; in every city; and, as it turns out, in every other country that also phased out leaded gasoline.”
13
@steve
Such a simple and comfortable explanation of crime!
By the way "that area" is one of the less populated of Paris and very up-market, "bourgeois".
1
The US experienced this after 9/11 the EPA announced many times air and water tests stated no problems until the threat became too great
8
I am very disappointed in the French government, which seems to be doing what our own government did after 9/11. It was shameful then, and it's equally shameful now.
Sad to say, establishment politicians everywhere seem to share the same shabby, selfish characteristics.
We should be better than this.
12
It's surprising that the French authorities claim they had no baseline studies done. The European Union has been funding these for years - we have such a study done for Dublin through international collaboration. Even if France doesn't have any standards for lead for outdoor spaces, other countries in the EU do, notably the UK - why not use them?
https://www.alsenvironmental.co.uk/media-uk/pdf/datasheets/contaminated-land/als_cl_heavy-metals-guidelines-in-soil_uk_feb_17_v2.pdf
There are also EU standards for surface and drinking waters - are they monitoring these?
The authorities appear to have a disjointed approach combined with breathtaking incompetence. The lack of protection for workers on the Cathedral site are sadly reminiscent of the tragedy of the World Trade Center site. The fact that the creche for the children of police officers was re-located so quickly shows there was some awareness of the dangers at that time. The idea that it is up to the schools to share the test results with parents and that the public health agencies have no such responsibilities is shocking! Do not trust these people!
It is more important to protect your children's health than to re-build a building, no matter how famous it is!
30
@gf:
they should be able to do both. Its the lying and covering up that is the main problem.
3
The authorities failed to clean the entire area in the immediate aftermath of the fire and waited four months to finish a full decontamination of the neighbourhood.
It almost seems petty to complain since any other neighbourhood not in the very heart of downtown Paris would wait forever and then wait some more.
6
Lots to consider here, but before Americans begin pointing fingers at French officials for bungling the cleanup and failing to inform the public, we might remember Flint, Michigan and Newark, NJ.
23
@Ockham9
Awful as this is, the decades long contamination of our planet, by DuPont is beyond belief, and the settlement aside, they got away with it.
https://www.phillyvoice.com/new-york-times-dupont-hid-decades-chemical-pollution/
"Industrial giant DuPont dumped thousands of tons of polluted waste into landfills and spent decades hiding its knowledge that a chemical used in Teflon was toxic, according to a scathing exposé published in The New York Times Magazine this week.
Titled "The Lawyer Who Became DuPont's Worst Nightmare," the lengthy article by Nathaniel Rich describes how corporate lawyer Rob Bilott has spent 16 years leading lawsuits against DuPont for its use of PFOA, a chemical used in nonstick ..."
2
This article discusses lead concentration benchmarks for what are considered to be unsafe levels of exposure. But the article does not tell us whether these lead concentration thresholds are based on long term (ie, chronic) or short term exposure. Anybody familiar with basic principles of toxicology knows that this distinction is essential. This omission from the article is rather glaring.
4
Fantastic reporting, especially the graphics. Thank you NYTimes!
12
@Allison
I live in Paris. I am impressed with the quality of the photographs of that piece.
9
In the shadow of Chernobyl...
Thank you NYT for reporting this; also for the superb style.
10
This is the second remarkable piece of reporting I have come to read about Notre-Dame. The first was an analysis of the emergency response in the hours following the fire. Both in these columns. So it is worth reading the Times including when looking for local info. Thanks
12
Excellent reporting and graphics - well done NYT!
9
The moment I saw that yellow smoke I could see it was lead.
To suggest anyone exposed that day will be OK is simply a lie. In my opinion, many people will die in years to come, merely from being in Paris that day and since.
460 tons of lead. Say that aloud, and bear in mind mere lead based paint is dangerous. 460 tons of lead went up in flames over a matter of hours. That's not a danger. It's a catastrophe.
19
@Jack Lee
Well said. The point is that people know governments lie and have some responsibility for doubting any information from their government.
People have responsibility to know enough about their environments, especially in a city, to be avle to weigh the veracity of information from government sources.
Everyone knows lead is dangerous - or they could very easily find out by googling it.
1
The first thing I thought of was all that lead, and yet it went unmentioned in the immediate aftermath of the Notre Dame fire. While some suspect bureaucratic coverup, and they may be right, I am more concerned about journalistic incuriosity. The questions should have been asked, published and pursued from the get-go. As it is, I hesitate to visit Paris any time soon, and I worry for the city's residents.
6
Lead can be removed from the body by chelation...So far as removing lead from surfaces, contaminated objects would need to be washed? vacuumed? both? And eventually some top soil removed from the park??
Not sure why this article is in the NYTimes? and this brings back to my mind -- lead paint was legal in the US until late in the 1970's if I remember correctly -- so that peeling paint in the subways as well as in public housing...(which our authorities seem unable to clean up.) I am never sure as to how long to run my cold tap water before using it in cooking.. Never use hot.
However, while we're worrying about lead destroying brain cells... so do other things, e.g. alcohol. The gerontologist glared at her when she admitted to two glasses of wine with her meal -- and said "It causes cognitive damage!" (OK back to one.. sometimes and a half; none if driving.
2
@Auntie Mame:
what is your point?
Yes, there is lead here, too, but not in the amounts dispersed by smoke over Paris.
And, yes, Alcohol destroys brain cells in heavy use. I personally don't drink at all. BUT we tried prohibition and didn't work so well.
1
@Auntie Mame
Lead can be removed somewhat from a living body, but some remains. Lead is MUCH MORE HARMFUL to growing children and much less removable from growing children because they are building bone and growing their neurological networks in their brains. Your information is very defective. Lead poisoning during childhood continues to do damage for the rest of the child's life, including reducing their IQ's.
Lead in paint was known to cause brain and neurological damage for almost 200 years before codes were changed in the United States to forbid lead in paid. As I recall, the British Navy knew that lead on boats was poisonous yet continued to use it because of low cost and long life for centuries.
Lead was used as a fixative for pigment in lead paint in the US until it became illegal in 1979. Any structure painted before 1979 is contaminated with lead - including your own house. So when the woodwork is sanded for a new paint job - avoid going inside. In California, painters must tent a house outside before sanding and repainting - very expensive. Most soil next to houses is badly contaminated from previous painting and sanding of the house. Children who play in dirt next to houses - or occupy old houses with painted wood windows tend to have lead poisoning.
1
Dear Editor,
Is it possible for you to provide the address of each tested site on your map of contaminated areas?
On the interactive map, the streets are cramped together and blocked by the graphics, the map shifts as one scrolls through it, making it very hard to locate precise locations, which could also help tourists who may have stayed at hotels or airbnbs near the tested sites.
Thank you for such thorough research and reporting, which French news sources have yet to provide. Perhaps a French translation of the article would also be great (as the NYT provides Chinese and Spanish translations for relevant stories).
5
perfect opportunity here to keep people from frivolous and wasteful travel. in fact it should be emphasized everywhere and all the time how risky, polluting, and difficult it is to get a better adventure than one can find inside one's own head, at home. the best thing you can do for the planet is stay home.
1
@kate May I kindly suggest that the best thing you can do for the planet right now is vote wisely ? As in, vote for people who want to take immediate and far-reaching action to reverse, or at least brake, climate change ?
7
@nestor potkine - well voting doesn't preclude foregoing momentary frivolities and pleasures for the sake of the planet upon which our children and all the innocent creatures must rest and remain. do as much as you can as soon as you can.or, to follow my thread, do as little.
1
@kate
One air flight to Paris from New York, for example, costs as much in carbon pollution as heating one's house for the rest of one's life.
Air travel is by far one of the most largest sources of carbon pollution. NO ONE talks about alternatives except that young woman from Finland or Denmark who recently sailed on a sail boat with no auxiliary motor from her homeland in Europe to Manhattan. The purpose of her traip: to give a speech at the UN asking folks to wake up and quit polluting carbon so much.
Symptoms of lead poisoning appear only after a dangerous amount of lead is in the body. Most often, lead poisoning is a gradual build-up. High levels of lead can cause damage to the kidneys & central nervous system, eventually leading to seizures, unconsciousness, coma & even death.
Children are more at risk from lead poisoning for a number of reasons:
1. They are more likely to pick up lead contamination from the soil and to then consume it.
2. They are also closer to ground level and, therefore, more at risk of breathing in dust lying on that ground.
Signs and symptoms of acute lead poisoning include: abdominal pain & vomiting; jaundice; lethargy; black diarrhea; encephalopathy, which affects the brain and can lead to seizures, coma & death.
Symptoms are most likely to appear over time - which is known as chronic poisoning. These symptoms include: slowed body growth; reduced IQ; loss of appetite & weight loss; constipation; mild abdominal pain; irritability; general fatigue; blue tinge along the gum line; anemia; hearing loss & reduced capacity in other senses; neurological weakness ( later stages).
Young children absorb lead 4 to 5 times more readily than adults. Because their bodies are developing, they are the most at risk.
Bottom line: A short stay in Paris is probably fine, as long as you stay away from parks and playgrounds, & don't eat locally grown veggies. Also, leave your kids at home, with grandma and grandpa, when you visit "Paree".
7
...And I just finished reading a book about Russia's lame and late official responses to Chernobyl -- which we Americans attributed to the Soviet mentality... until after 9/11. Of course, we could have already recognized officials' behavior from multiple U.S. administrations refusing to level with the public about the Viet Nam War. The world turns, officials dissemble, and lies of convenience ultimately destabilize entire empires.
5
Shocking, appalling, and ultimately saddening. I won't be visiting the great and beautiful city of Paris anytime soon, thanks to the deceptive and wrongheaded authorities of the French government who issued "reassuring statements" and failed to warn the public about the lead fallout. In my rudimentary high school French, c'est une catastrophe, one for which the children of Paris will be paying for the rest of their lives.
15
@Pucifer This is a problem only very locally, and mostly for schools, especially then. And of course the authorities didn't react well, as the Deep State always confuses secrecy and safety. For that matter, lead in old paint is a problem in many places in the USA.
One has to learn not to overreact. It's obviously perfectly safe to stay close to Notre-Dame right now, as long as one is not in the direct fall-out area (and I have done it several times since the fire, less than 1,000 feet away).
1
@Pucifer AND, if tourists go there it may be a very long time before they become ill and no one will 1+1 together, unfortunately.
1
Before being eliminated as an additive the US used to add 200,000 tons of lead to gasoline per year. So this fire represents no more than 0.3% of the lead we used to distribute in the America each year.
8
@Jonathan:
yes, we did and so did much of the world. We also used lead paint.
We know better now.
WHAT is your point?
1
Certainly reminiscent of 911 fallout and contamination still killing responders. The Times ran an article only days ago on the continuing deaths, even as any information on the latest Russian nuclear explosion and the tons of radioactive water about to enter the ocean off Fukishima.
Urban disasters hold long-term damage, depleted uranium ammunition and old land mines also do so in old war zones.
Meanwhile, Individual 1 is all for bringing back asbestos.
As I understand it, the TPP—negotiated in near-complete secrecy—provided the option to multinationals to sue governments whose environmental and health regulations interfered with profit, suspending those regulations for the duration of long-term court proceedings.
So on it goes, ever since the first advocate of nuclear power told us not to worry about the 25 thousand years of poison resulting. No problem.
What should we do about toxins old and new?
Solar. Now.
14
This is the latest example of a bureaucratic cover-up, something that seems to occur in most, if not all, countries.
I find myself asking an either-or question. Do these administrative jobs attract people with that personality type, or does the nature of the job transform a wide range of people into that type of behavior? Or is there something else at work? I think the answer is a combination, that people who do not conform to such information control will never be promoted very high in an organization.
28
@Svante Aarhenius
Contrary to all nonsense about doing what you love out there, along with training for a better job, jobs are very hard to come by esp. with a good pension-- esp. in France. People are terrified that they will lose their jobs and not find another one.. Thus the man, every single one no matter gender, has many people under his thumb, and for the most part, they do not talk or report, even if they are mandated to do so. FEAR of losing one's salary is a huge motivator. Thus, Andrew Yang's notion of $1000 per month per person is not so terrible. (If people would get along and pool resources they could have a pretty good life on that amount.)
3
@Auntie Mame
Universal income, as Mr Yang's proposition has been called long before Mr Yang wisely decided to make it even better known, is an excellent idea, and one, hopefully, with a bright future.
2
@nestor potkine:
they tried Universal Income and have abandoned the experiment:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/universal-basic-income-finland-ontario-stockton_n_5c5c3679e4b00187b558e5ab
1
Alarming but excellent reporting by Times with graphics and photos.
Main question now is what can the public who live in Paris do to keep themselves as safe as possible. As the cleanup continues and possibly continue for some time to come, the French authorities should be open and candid about the potential risk that people face in different localities so that they can take whatever precaution they can to minimize the exposure as they go about with their daily lives.
I worry about the exposure of the clean up crew who have been exposed to a totally different level.
20
The immediate vicinity around the cathedral as well, the surrounding neighborhood, was closed for decontamination within one month after the fire. At the time, people were moaning about the endless delays to their daily commutes & towards reconstruction. There are regulations in place regarding the levels of lead inside buildings in Paris but there's no way to regulate lead levels outside since a variety of factors come into play.
What people decided to do that day, whether to take pictures to commemorate the tragedy or steer clear of the area altogether is not the responsibility of the government, it's an individual choice. The authorities are doing all they can aside from shutting down & evacuating the city for months to fully remove all traces of lead in the environment, which is ridiculous to contemplate but, the only solution some people feel would make sense. If you notice in the final photo, there is a massive plume of smoke spreading eastward along the Seine, that's usually what happens, like a volcano, the particulate dissipates & chances are, the majority of the lead particles fell into the river & sank or drifted west towards the ocean.
I've noticed the majority of commentators on this thread are American; rather than wag your finger at your allies across the Atlantic; look deep into your hearts & wonder why it took so long for you to recognize the same dangers on site after 9/11 & why it's taken decades to offer restitution to your fellow citizens.
23
@Dwayne Moholitny
Sorry if this sounds pedantic, but the remarkable bird's eye view photo showing the plume of smoke spreading along the Seine was taken from the north looking south, the opposite of how we usually see a map of Paris, so the smoke is traveling westward rather than eastward. I point this out because wind direction at the time of the fire would have been a key factor in which parts of Paris were at the most risk for contamination.
As to your final point, perhaps it is precisely because it took us so long to understand the dangers at the 9/11 sites that we wish to help our dear friends in France avoid making the same mistakes.
22
@Dwayne Moholitny I don't think the article intends to criticize the French. But the Times sees it as their function to criticize all government as a way to ensure that governments do the best they can. Believe me, they do this to all governments everywhere. I think it is the right thing for the Times to do because it gives readers the information they need to make their own conclusions, but I also know that no matter what Paris officials had done or not done, they would have been criticized by the NYTimes.
3
@Dwayne Moholitny You are absolutely correct: we Americans have no right to wag a finger at anybody--especially in the current environmentally-unfriendly era of Trump,
10
I'm an architect familiar with materials contamination, testing, and the desire/requirement for historical authenticy in historic buildings - especially a beloved landmark like Notre Dame.
Do not trust the official announcements regarding lead contamination. The testing procedures themselves may be faulty or taken at "safe" sites. Tell your personal local health provider/doctor/lab that you were close to where the fire occurred, or in Paris during the fire, or visited shortly thereafter, and get tested now and later.
Lead contamination is less harmful for adults than for growing children. It can cause severe and permanent neurological defects. It can't be reomoved once it's it the body. It causes mental defects often even before physical symptoms are apparent. Don't fool around. Get tested.
There are some things which can be done to lower lead contamination somewhat, even once it is in the human body, thought it cannot be removed entirely. Get your dogs and cats tested.
Materials to rebuild Notre Dame must not include lead, desite was was/is historically authentic. Lead coated with copper is still available. Don't use it.
The kind of breathing equipment to filter/remove fine particulates in the air is very expensive and cumbersome. If I were a worker, I would refuse to work on the building or even enter it if I were still of reproductive age.
There are plenty of authentic-looking materials which will not create and leave a trail of poison.
37
@BSmith Relax. Materials for the reconstruction will not include lead, forbidden in France for decades. The point lead charged has been forbidden in 1993.
The roof of ND was 180 years old.
8
" French authorities have refused to fully disclose the results of their testing for lead contamination, sowing public confusion, while issuing reassuring statements intended to play down the risks."
C'mon, Macron (to single out but one official), time for openness and honesty, not obfuscation, diversion and distraction. Lead melts at a very low temperature and was easily "vaporized" in the ND fire. The citizens of Paris need the truth to deal with any resultant health issues, not a wall of silence.
7
I must say, the use of photos, statistics and especially statistic-driven graphics in this story was just brilliant! Kudos.
59
Why did the NY Times not report on this at the time of the fire? I'm only an amateur chemist, but it was crystal clear to me on the day of the fire that the oddly orange smoke billowing from the roof contained tons of lead monoxide, or PbO. I can't be the only one to have come to that immediate conclusion.
I went so far as to advise friends who were set to visit Paris in the next few weeks not to go if they were taking their children.
Some timely information would have been helpful.
67
@herrbrahms
Remember leaded gasoline? Remember lead paint? Remember lead toys from China? Lead solder? Lead soldiers?
I'm assuming there is limited lead in the atmosphere except near the construction site... Rain would wash much away... and that water goes....
At least in Paris one is RELATIVELY safe physically.
4
@herrbrahms At the time of the fire, I suspect there were more urgent things to report on than lead contamination - like whether the entire structure would collapse, how this had happened, whether the firefighters were at risk, and simply the utter shock and sorry that millions of people all over the world were experiencing.
This article did mention that people involved realized at once that lead would be an issue. That doesn't mean it was the must urgent thing to write about that day.
3
We won't know the effect for 20 years or so when there will be a steep rise in cases of cancer and other diseases. Macron will be out of office by then so probably doesn't care much or if he does, wants to keep the info under wraps for now.
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@Mike F. Yeah, no. There will be and increase in ADHD-like symptoms in children beginning immediately, and will be accompanied by a rise in crime by those children in 15 years.
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@Mike F.
Governments and our elected representatives are not known for forthrightness and few have much grasp of science. Macron, who actually has a good classical French education, probably at least could understand the science of Notre Dame burning, but he was probably there for only a short while and was sure not to touch anything. They probably put something on the floor/ground for him to walk on - carefully. And they did not linger.
Donald Trump is totally ignorant of science and proud of his ignorance as are many American voters. I wish the NY Times would write about when/where/how America became brainwashed to disregard science.
We are actually in global warming and the upward spiral of temperature worldwide right now. We are past the point of no return. Science is not taught in school and most parents don't read science picture books to their toddlers.
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Tetraethyl lead was widely used as a gasoline additive from the 1920a through the 1990s, when it was finally phased out throughout most of the world in automobile fuel. Urbanized areas with auto exhaust had elevated lead levels in the air, and residual lead on the ground. The apartment buildings built over I-95 near the George Washington bridge had elevated lead levels in their residents blood.
In perspective, I think the one time result of this fire is highly local, and limited. And as for a tourist, I would not eat any back yard garden vegetables grown there, but otherwise, there are greater worries.
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How many other roofs in France and other countries are made of lead? Is there any effort to replace these roofs with less-toxic materials?
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@catlover
It is more toxic to try to replace an historic lead roof than just to leave it in place - they are extremely long lasting.
And there is always the problem of where you can dump the lead contaminated materials which are removed, thereby creating a toxic waste dump, a hazardous area, and the potential for lead leaking into the air as dust or into the water table through rain.
Lead removal is very expensive because of all of the regulations regarding working with lead and disposing of it.
It's far better to leave lead in the ground in the first place and find better building materials when any lead roofing finally needs to be removed.
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@BSmith
How often do these ancient roofs burn? If there is a release of lead each time, then the cost of cleanup of the neighborhood should be considered in the cost of replacement.
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@catlover
I thought that the roof collapse seemed to have a timely occurrence . I think that the corporates gain from a public with shrinking IQs. Bush closed off information regarding toxic waste dump sites, kinds of material, public access, etc. The US had a near miss of a flooded nuclear reactor just months ago, if we're being told the truth. The floods across the US may have breached toxic waste sites about which we may never be informed.
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Excellent piece of research and reporting, thank you. And if you can produce a French translation, it might even have an impact where it's actually needed, right here in Paris. For not one of the relevant decision-makers in France will take anything into account unless it's in French, sent to them directly, and published here too, in Le Monde, Libération, Le Figaro. Looking forward to seeing it happening.
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@Julia
Not sure you really live in Paris. They were many many articles on the French médias on this subject (even if the NYT's paper is very good). The Government has been sued by organizations. Dont you think your comment is slightly patronizing?
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@Julia
There were and still are a lot of articles.
https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2019/07/29/incendie-de-notre-dame-le-seuil-de-concentration-du-plomb-choisi-par-les-autorites-est-il-dangereux-pour-la-population_5494674_4355770.html
1
What does an 850-year old structure have in common with a modern skyscraper? When it burns, it releases clouds of toxic materials.
Just scanning the headline of this article reminded me of the health problems suffered by 911 first responders and the people who cleaned up the mess afterwards. Next, I thought of the pictures of Bermuda, and the mountains of toxic waste that will have to be removed and sequestered somewhere.
850 years ago, making a roof out of lead was probably considered modern. Now, we know that lead is toxic, even if we remember burning it in gasoline. I have also come to realize that if you burn a modern structure, the toxic material in the contents and in the structure itself is either released into the biosphere, or left behind to end up in a landfill.
Can we do this with fewer toxins, or are we destined to poison the biosphere, and ourselves with it?
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@mlbex
We need to teach science - make it fun and interesting - from kindergarden through college. One of my children went to a superb technical institute and knows science. The other, who went to a typical liberal arts college, did not take a single science class after she graduated from high school. That should not be allowed.
The reason most people in America (and probably France also which separates types of study I think about the age of 12) are not more alert to the perils of global warming is that they are essentially ignorant of science.
And the scientists re so cowed that they have greatly underestimated the impacts and horror which is NOw occuring becuase of global warming.
Where are toddler books which explain basic science facts - like what is oxygen and why are forests important? The ones I've seen are not well designed to appeal to toddlers and adults - and don't seem to be both appealing and scientific!
Some religious school districts in the Southern United States even forbid teaching science in school! But the same school districts require the Bible story of creation in Genesis to be taught as an alternative theory to evolution, which they don't allow to be taught - or so I've read. Such willful ignorance threatens the continued success and ability of voters to chose good candidates for president, their senators, etc.
Our current president is an example of making horrific decisions affecting the environment and future of all life on our planet.
11
I guess France didn't learn from our mishandling of the 9/11 debris and subsequent cleanup.
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No amount of lead exposure is safe for young brains. The tiniest amount does permanent damage, inhibiting intellectual capacity, compromising memory, and affecting behavior. This will develop as a tragedy for France.
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@DisplayName Incorrect. Lead is a long term poison, and transient amounts are removed from the body by the body with few problems. Long term exposure is the problem, and that's not a problem in this instance.
9
@Ernest Montague
Some lead is excreted over time. Some accumulates in bones, teeth, and soft tissue, and can be re-released into the bloodstream long after the initial exposure. In any case, drop in blood lead levels does not repair cognitive effects in children.
10
@Ernest Montague Happy to read you. At last, a reasonable comment opposed to this nerd lessly anxiogenic article.
1
First, this was just an exceptional piece of reporting, with balance of graphics, history, involved citizenry, officials and science well integrated with photos and and issue development.
Second, that the context of concern, response and economics was wrapped in the various motives underlying such expressions gave nuance to the gravity of the incident.
This is a most excellent display of why this reader thinks the Times is needed in these times.
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