Feb 10, 2019 · 35 comments
michael clarkin (lee summit mo)
Movie White Christmas. Bing no less
Ted Faraone (New York, NY & Westerly, RI)
Almost 40 years ago I was taken by a girlfriend to a night club where the performer was a white guy impersonating Chuck Berry -- complete with black makeup. I did not like the show, and managed to annoy the GF by refusing to be involved in the audience participation part. I am not claiming to be especially culturally enlightened. I am no better than the next guy. But something about the show bugged me a lot. I could not quite put my finger on it then other than to say that I thought the entire presentation was sleazy, including the makeup. I guess my reaction was visceral rather than intellectual or culturally sensitive. Sometimes one knows when a thing isn't right even if one does not know why. I might add that any joker who thinks s/he can make a living channelling one of the greats of music is delusional.
Oclaxon (Louisville)
Lots of people actually do make a living channeling Elvis. Apparently they are not delusional. As for the Chuck Berry act, maybe you didn't like because he wasn't very good. :)
Ed (Old Field, NY)
I think we have a problem here: when and where was somebody “wearing” “blackface”? (I’m running out of quotation marks.) In what context would this be normal? And in what context would it be normal to punch someone in the face?
Alexandra (Seoul, ROK)
I saw it once in person, as a child in Iowa, but it was other children who were reading excerpts from contemporary diaries and speeches given in the prelude to the Civil War. One of my classmates read from one of Frederick Douglass's speeches and the other from an interview with Harriet Tubman, and so had painted faces - presumably leftover Halloween makeup. It didn't have anything to do with blackface in the context of minstrel or comedy (I didn't know it existed in that form and intent until college, when I took classes in African-American history and studied it as part of the class), and I sincerely doubt the teachers' intent was to insult. The students were also dressed in Civil War-era costumes, so I think it was about accuracy in portrayal. So I've seen it, yes, but the context in which I saw it would probably not apply to the way the Times asked this question. I've also seen it in the context of British pantomime, but apparently it didn't develop under the same conditions that ours did, and no one seemed to bat an eye at it except me (I was horrified until the friend I was visiting in London explained it - and then I had to explain to him why I was upset. He had no idea it was so offensive in America).
Sally Greenberg (Berkeley, California)
My exposure to blackface is that worn by certain Morris Dance sides in the UK. Although the origins of that aren't totally clear (some suggest it's origins are due to disguise), that too is now coming under the same scrutiny. See https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/black-faced-morris-dancers-traditional-disguise-or-simply-racist-9794704.html e.g. In the context of this survey though, I wonder how many of the participants (like me) have only seen blackface in this context. Was it asked? For people who have visited fairs and festivals in England, it's not uncommon.
Pam (<br/>)
If by "seen blackface" you mean seen a live person wearing it, then no. Seen it in old movies and cartoons, and in current ugly stuff that gets out there on the internet, yes. And no, I am not okay with someone having done that more than ten years ago. By 1980, everyone knew it was insulting and anyone who says they did not is lying. The insult was, and always has been, the whole point of blackface.
christopher (Home Of The Free)
I sell comic books from the 1970's and early '80's on Ebay. Because I have to scrutinize them for tears or imperfections I also end up reading the content and I have news for you: even the 'funnies' had attitudes that are jarring to read all these decades later about the roles of men and women and our perception of authorities, etc. So politicians who grew up with these attitudes can be excused for having been exposed to that culture but not having modernized with the times? That's a whole 'nother thing.
stevie281 (nyc)
Every event where someone darkens their skin is not blackface, yet all variations of darkening the skin are being called that. Blackface is very specific in its parameters, think of non-black actors who have played Othello, those who are on maneuvers, other societies who darken their skin for their cultural events, etc.. How will this redefine art? "White Chicks," anyone? How about "Italian Vogue?" Which shapes and color combinations will have to be approved? Tread carefully, everyone.
RPM (North Jersey)
Fred Armisen wore brown face on SNL when he impersonated the President. I didn't see it as racist.
N. Smith (New York City)
As long as white people continue to wear Blackface in the guise of "entertainment" -- the root cause of its problem in this country will continue to be overlooked, rationalized, and ultimately forgotten.
vulcanalex (Tennessee)
Come now, almost nobody does something yet many more have seen it? Makes no sense to me, but then logic and rational thought is rare.
Albert Ross (Alamosa, CO)
It doesn't make sense to me either. I only notice things that everyone does, not things that stand out by virtue of their rarity. My stamp collection isn't worth much.
Jerry Sturdivant (Las Vegas, NV)
I've worn red face on Halloween when dressing as an American Indian, while my pal dressed as a cowboy. Does it matter how long ago? Does it matter that it was not disrespecting Indians? Does it matter what color I am?
Mary (New Jersey)
I am an older white woman and I confess I've been struggling emotionally to understand this issue as perceived by a Black or, as in your example, Native American person. This morning I heard an explanation by someone on WNYC that really clarified the emotional impact. Anyone seeing you dressed in an American Indian costume on Halloween would know who you were representing. But, by putting on "red face" you signaled that the color of their skin is the most salient characteristic of that group- the thing that you see first when looking at them. Now turn the example inside out and consider a Black child dressing as Wonder Woman; she would not paint her face "white" as part of her costume. There would be no need, because the costume speaks for itself. This explanation, together with the hateful historical baggage of "black" or "red" face, really places this type of activity beyond the pale. It was disrespectful, then and now. As whites, I think we need to own this, take it in and apologize.
Alexandra (Seoul, ROK)
Yes, it does. Context ALWAYS matters.
sharon5101 (Rockaway Park)
I just returned a classic WC Fields comedy called You Can't Cheat An Honest Man back to Netflix. Spoiler Alert--Humans aren't the only ones who wore blackface make up in the old movies. This movie also co-starred ventriloquist Edgar Bergen and his famous puppet side kicks Charlie McCartney and Mortimer Snerd. In one scene Bergen opened up a jar whose contents were unknown. However, a moment later, Charlie McCartney's face was covered in blackface make up. See? Even puppets wore black face as part of a movie script. But this movie was made in 1939. Therefore, in less politically correct times, no one noticed or cared.
Marybeth (WI)
Can't tell if this is supposed to be humor, but just to be clear...I'm pretty sure at the very least, black Americans both noticed and cared at that time.
stevie281 (nyc)
Believe me, black people noticed.
Pat (Texas)
Wearing blackface in the South was a way to assert that even though the Confederacy had fallen, its sons had not been defeated. Only someone who thought he was superior to a black person would go about in blackface. It was an intended slap in the face of the Civil Rights Era. And Ralph Northam was proud of it as a son of the South.
ianmacrostie (california)
I am not American but I have lived here for 35 years. I am a Dutch native and we have Sinterklaas and zwarte Piet; St. Nicholas and black Pete. Santa is derived from this Dutch tradition. It is only celebrated by children. Traditionally black Pete has a black face; because Dutch are pretty much white the people impersonating black Pete wore black make up. The vast majority doesnt think anything of it. In the former Dutch colonies where there is a sizable black population they dont care either
Alexandra (Seoul, ROK)
I highly doubt they "don't care."
Judy (NYC)
Blackface makes me think of Al Jolson, an entertainer who was popular in the early 20th century. I may have seen clips of him in old movies but never heard that his act was offensive. As a white person I never thought about blackface but 30 years ago I would have considered Jolson’s act a dated but would not have realized it was offensive.
sf (santa monica)
I saw Jimmy Fallon wear it. But that doesn't count, right?
cl (vermont)
exactly -- we've all seen it in movies, television, etc.
Counter Measures (Old Borough Park, NY)
Pathetic survey! I would think ALL of us have more immediate concerns!!!
That's what she said (USA)
Find it interesting age 55-64-grew up in Civil Rights Era-never wore and troubling that percentage is rising. It has a history to "mock" and that's just repulsive. We all know darker is more beautiful otherwise why would Trump waste so much time and money on his "natural glow".
Marybeth (WI)
To be fair, in terms of statistical analysis, there's practically no difference in these numbers. Seems to me like it falls within a reasonable margin of error (e.g. 16% vs 19 or 20%)
me (US)
Speak for yourself. Personally, I don't find "darker more beautiful" and I have a right to my own preferences.
N. Smith (New York City)
First of all. This begs the question of how many white people who read the NYT are actually going to admit they've worn 'Blackface' at one time or another in their lives? But more importantly, you're entirely missing the point by reducing this all to some kind of an algorithm, when the real problem of racism in America goes back to the days of its founding and the fact that reducing African-Americans to caricatures and stereotypes for the sake of subjugation and amusement has been long held as being acceptable. If anything, the recent events involving politicians cavorting around in Blackface is more of a systemic problem than some mere lapse in personal judgement. And until America comes to face the reality of its racist past, things like this will continue to happen -- it just won't necessarily be reported in the media. Certainly as a person of color, I find this all offensive beyond words. But sadly, it's no longer surprising.
Ockham9 (Norman, OK)
Two items in the poll stand out for me: that the youngest group (18-29 year-olds) and those with the highest educational achievements have the greatest share of those having worn blackface. That suggests that blackface isn’t just a phenomenon that was relegated to the past and that younger people would find it so obscene that it would eventually die out; rather, I’m concerned that American society and young people in particular may be reacting to conservative backlash against so-called political correctness and willfully engaging in this terrible behavior. And it suggests that contrary to the suggestion that Trump’s racism was heavily centered on poorly educated white voters, racism cuts across all educational levels. Very disheartening.
Marybeth (WI)
These numbers aren't really different if you consider a margin of error. The only one that seems to be actually significant to me is number of men v women who say they have seen blackface. Everyone else is pretty flat.
Mark (Chemainus, Vancouver Island)
In the early '50s, my Minnesota town had an annual Hobo Parade for kids. My mom would cover my face with cold cream and dad would char a large cork and blacken my face, here and there, to signify dirt and grime. Me and scores of other kids, would put on our oldest, dirtiest clothes, hold a stick across one shoulder with a bandana (filled with lunch) and proudly march down Main Street to the local ballpark for costume judging and other festivities. Was this a sly Midwestern form of blackface in a town of 25,000 that had only a few black people? Or was it merely a form of 'cultural appropriation' from the itinerant folks who still rode boxcars? Pretty much both, now that I think of it…
magicisnotreal (earth)
I knew someone who was dressed as Diane Ross one Halloween n Berkeley who used brown makeup on her face. She is not a racist. The party was integrated and no one took notice. ????? Context I think. it has come to me in the last few hours that there was a movie back in the 80's in which a white kid who needed school funding made himself up in blackface to get an affirmative action scholarship. I think they made him pretend to be from Africa as a way to get it past whoever greenlight's these things. I wish I could remember the name of it. Anyway there is what I would say today a kind of ignorance about the meaning of blackface to our black fellows in some people that is not OK. That ignorance amounts to "reckless disregard". I understand children can be raised by people who train them to see things in a certain way. Most of us were raised that way which is why this problem keeps persisting.
John Doe (Johnstown)
The thought of rubbing black shoe polish all over my face is unthinkable. How would I ever get all that junk out of my pores? So I guess this means I can’t go to a party dressed as a coal miner either.