Please post a correction to the story or explain in these comments:
The interactive map shows all 20 buildings of Peter Cooper Village in red, marked "too much commercial activity," and the "hover over" shows the address for all 20 as 342 First Avenue (the address of none of them). Only two of the twenty buildings have any stores at all. Neighboring Stuyvesant Town, which has more commercial activity, is not in red.
The interactive map shows all 20 buildings of Peter Cooper Village in red, marked "too much commercial activity," and the "hover over" shows the address for all 20 as 342 First Avenue (the address of none of them). Only two of the twenty buildings have any stores at all. Neighboring Stuyvesant Town, which has more commercial activity, is not in red.
A couple of things to note. Buildings would be prohibitedly expensive if they were built like the ones built prior to WW2, all of that granite, marble, terrazzo, concrete and brass. Generally modern buildings are crap, whether high rises, sub-6 story, or one and two story homes. Cheap no matter how you look at it. With regards to zoning codes, it's called "progress". Pre WW2 buildings in the outer boroughs also fall into the high quality category. Just look at all of those tenament buildings that survived the fires and destruction in the Bronx during the late 1960's - through the 1970's. i remember it well. A nuke would have been needed at ground zero for these buildings to have been destroyed. Today's buildings, well, if you were to blow on them, they would fall. I would rewrite building codes throughout the U.S. and require developers to use better and stronger materials. Some things still improvement
1
If these iconic buildings broke some building code, how come those horrible billionaires' towers on 57th St. got built?
really interesting read.
here in SF the costs of residences (be they rentals or purchases) and zoning are daily discussions.
NIMBY, neighborhood review, density bonus, variance, setback, micro unit, nonconforming, parking requirement vs. parking limit, infrastructure impact, open space, air, light, view, affordable housing,; almost any angle is bandied about and used to support or argue against one project or another.
thanks for reminding us, or at least me, that our greatest city was the result of exceptions as much as rules.
here in SF the costs of residences (be they rentals or purchases) and zoning are daily discussions.
NIMBY, neighborhood review, density bonus, variance, setback, micro unit, nonconforming, parking requirement vs. parking limit, infrastructure impact, open space, air, light, view, affordable housing,; almost any angle is bandied about and used to support or argue against one project or another.
thanks for reminding us, or at least me, that our greatest city was the result of exceptions as much as rules.
New York City is underpopulated. Tall buildings make it possible for a higher percentage of people to be able to walk to work, and a still higher percentage to be able to use public transportation rather than cars.
Suburbs necessarily have shopping areas with great big parking lots.
Dense populations are good for the environment.
Stores seem to be vanishing in this age of computers. Thickly populated areas can help to keep retail businesses alive.
Suburbs necessarily have shopping areas with great big parking lots.
Dense populations are good for the environment.
Stores seem to be vanishing in this age of computers. Thickly populated areas can help to keep retail businesses alive.
2
are you serious? Even though i live in Portland, Or , the stories i've read lately tells the tale that there is serious over crowding, not underpopulation. Who needs an over populated city anyway, whether Portland or New York.
1
Higher levels of density might be comfortable for ants, or dead sardines in a sardine can. Not for people.
1
The author, like the building code, does not place enough of an emphasis on the health and well-being of people who have to exist in NY apartments. Perhaps more people can be housed if we did not worry about giving people adequate space, light and ventilation. But without enough ventilation, we could see a return of tuberculosis.
The author made general references to zoning laws. Let me be more specific: The NYC Dept of Buildings operates by a building code which governs NYC. If I recall correctly, the preface or preamble of the Code states that it should be interpreted in a manner that facilitates commercial development, that ambiguities shall be resolved in favor of commercial enterprises and that health concerns shall not unduly circumscribe business activity.
The author feels the same way, alleging that governing health concerns preclude the development of many buildings. But many people are suffering from sick building syndrome, infections from vermin, respiratory infections that might be alleviated with better ventilation, mold and depression augmented or caused by living in minute apartments.
From General Economic Policy in WDC to the building code in NY, the rich rule.
Feel the Bern
The author made general references to zoning laws. Let me be more specific: The NYC Dept of Buildings operates by a building code which governs NYC. If I recall correctly, the preface or preamble of the Code states that it should be interpreted in a manner that facilitates commercial development, that ambiguities shall be resolved in favor of commercial enterprises and that health concerns shall not unduly circumscribe business activity.
The author feels the same way, alleging that governing health concerns preclude the development of many buildings. But many people are suffering from sick building syndrome, infections from vermin, respiratory infections that might be alleviated with better ventilation, mold and depression augmented or caused by living in minute apartments.
From General Economic Policy in WDC to the building code in NY, the rich rule.
Feel the Bern
2
Tuberculosis is caused by a specific bacterium, not a lack of ventilation.
2
The zoning laws are different from the building code. Zoning laws regulate uses, height, density, setback from property lines, and shape. The building code sets minimum standards for construction such as building materials, as well as electrical, plumbing, and mechanical systems. When building one would have to consult the zoning laws to see if you can build what you want, where you want; one would consult the building code (and fire code) to see how to build.
Yes, I know that TB is caused by a specific microorganism. However, the likelihood that the organism will cause TB is vastly amplified in crowded conditions with a lack of ventilation.
I'm a bit confused by the designation in this map as to Peter Cooper Village (20th through 23rd Streets, 1st Avenue to Avenue C). According your data PCV would not be built today because of too man businesses. However, PCV is almost exclusively residential. There are more store fronts on the Stuyvesant Town side of 20th Street and First Avenue, and there are very few businesses operating in PCV. I am curious how your data was assembled if this is the result.
Mercer Island is going through all this a lot earlier in the game. I've sent this fine article to the City Council with the thought that this might help in their research. I'm a Seattle native, my wife's BrooklynBorn. JGAIA-
short+less dense= more expensive. This is why the poor and middle class are being priced out of the city.
2
..and the sun ceased to shine; and the streets and alleys were cold; and no one could see beyond the next building; and the flora and fauna requiring full or partial sun began to die and all was replaced by shade plants that took a lifetime to take hold.
2
I wonder about some of this data. How is it that all of Soho is labeled "too many apartments"?
From the article:
“To understand zoning, you have to have a law degree"
Yes, of course, because zoning is law. And like all laws, there are people who who scheme to side step them.
There is only one other area of law that is as badly abused by schemers as the Zoning Rules - the IRS Regulations, and the NYS Tax Regulations.
Not surprising, the same people who abuse the zoning rules, always abuse our tax laws as well - in fact, there are special tax rules that pertain specifically to Real Estate Developers to help them out. That's why many big time Real Estate developers pay almost no taxes at all. Perhaps that why Donald Trump can't show us his tax returns.
Then, there are the eminent domain laws - originally intending to obtain land for public purposes, such as roadways and schools, but now used to provide free land to Real Estate Developers. The biggest known proponent of this process is, you guessed it, Donald Trump.
The City of New York provides the schemers with two groups to help them get their way. One is the Board of Standards and Appeals (BSA) and the other is the NYC Department of City Planning. Between these two groups, and Mayor de Blasio, all things are possible.
When the current investigation of the mayors office builds up some steam, the whistle will blow loud and clear.
As for Donald Trump, in November, our Nation will cast a vote, on whether of not Greed is Good.
“To understand zoning, you have to have a law degree"
Yes, of course, because zoning is law. And like all laws, there are people who who scheme to side step them.
There is only one other area of law that is as badly abused by schemers as the Zoning Rules - the IRS Regulations, and the NYS Tax Regulations.
Not surprising, the same people who abuse the zoning rules, always abuse our tax laws as well - in fact, there are special tax rules that pertain specifically to Real Estate Developers to help them out. That's why many big time Real Estate developers pay almost no taxes at all. Perhaps that why Donald Trump can't show us his tax returns.
Then, there are the eminent domain laws - originally intending to obtain land for public purposes, such as roadways and schools, but now used to provide free land to Real Estate Developers. The biggest known proponent of this process is, you guessed it, Donald Trump.
The City of New York provides the schemers with two groups to help them get their way. One is the Board of Standards and Appeals (BSA) and the other is the NYC Department of City Planning. Between these two groups, and Mayor de Blasio, all things are possible.
When the current investigation of the mayors office builds up some steam, the whistle will blow loud and clear.
As for Donald Trump, in November, our Nation will cast a vote, on whether of not Greed is Good.
5
“To understand zoning, you have to have a law degree"
And of course the lawyers and useless, parasitic bureaucratic vermin that infest all levels of government will make laws as hard to understand as possible in order to justify their own useless existence.
And of course the lawyers and useless, parasitic bureaucratic vermin that infest all levels of government will make laws as hard to understand as possible in order to justify their own useless existence.
2
I have spoken to attorneys at NYC's Department of City Planning. Each of them would love to eliminate this convoluted mess of a zoning code. They know it helps no one. However, there are two fundamental problems environmental impact statements and the fact that all changes to the zoning code have to come from city council. The drafting process because of the bureaucratic mess (as mandated by law) would take years and cost millions, and even then, city council politics would prevent it from taking effect (unless it was to their liking).
I live in a 19th Century townhouse and hate the thought of tearing down Pre-WWII buildings in New York. But, if they do, they should build big dense buildings. And ones that are not even with the buildings around them. that makes it boring. tearing down buildings a 6 story old building and rebuilding a 6 story modern building just because they could rent a modern building for more seems like a shame. The worse example of this is on 8th Avenue where they tore down a block of beautiful old building to build a short black box that, I guess, is supposed to be invisible like a stealth bomber. If people don't like tall, bulky buildings, why do they live in Manhattan. I think a lot of us like a very dense space. The Wall Street area is very popular now. If you like a lot of space and sunshine, people can move to Long Island.
2
Developers still break code as needed. Look at the Pierhouse condo development in Brooklyn Bridge Park. They raised the height of the building beyond the original limitations set, using the excuse of Hurricane Sandy and needing to locate mechanicals in the roof. The change blocked the view of the Brooklyn Bridge. They could have easily given up one of the condo units to fit the mechanicals, but that would have been one less unit for two former Brooklyn Bridge Park directors to purchase.
This is a development that clearly defies current zoning rules.
This is a development that clearly defies current zoning rules.
8
What is unfortunate and depressing is that due to conformed and current zoning in areas of Midtown, Midtown South and Chelsea - a once welcome commodity - light and air - is being choked out by permissible zoning that favors hotels and other uses that greatly impact pedestrian density, anonymity (transient population) and other means that come at the expense of 'neighborhood' and 'character.'
The 100' rule- allowing for overly bulked Queens type of prison like apartment buildings that line the Sixth Avenue corridor in the 20s and 30s has stressed these same neighborhoods, at the same time that permissible commercial uses and overbuilding bulks up the mid block gaps that used to let in at least a little light.
The 100' rule- allowing for overly bulked Queens type of prison like apartment buildings that line the Sixth Avenue corridor in the 20s and 30s has stressed these same neighborhoods, at the same time that permissible commercial uses and overbuilding bulks up the mid block gaps that used to let in at least a little light.
3
I find it amusing to hear the same people who elect to live in the most dense city (NY) in the most dense borough (manhattan) and even in the most den neighborhoods (Village, midtown, UWS etc.) then complain that it's too dense and crowded without realizing that the high density and buzz is why they decided to live there in the first place. For me most zoning laws in places like NY and San Francisco with the emphasis on low rise buildings and "livable neighborhoods" create the worst of both worlds. They lack the buzz of a midtown or Hong Kong but also lack the convenience and peace of the suburbs. Things are too far to walk but you can't drive easily either. If you don't like the density of Manhattan then move to Brooklyn or further out. Don't ruin a great city for the rest of us. Had NY been built with today's zoning it would be a very boring place.
6
The legacy of the Great Depression lingered on in a number of ways in NYC that made for quirky and irregular development in many blocks where tall buildings would be cheek by jowl with lowrise or parking lots. This lack of uniformity helped bring light and air into unexpected places- with too much prosperity and greed this is vanishing. There is density and then there is 'stress and density.' New York has always provided ample amounts of each - but walls of glass - like the incredibly ugly Trump Towers along ''Riverside Boulevard' facing the West Side Highway - are ''anti New York'' as they are impermeable, boring, tacky and regular as in ''boring.'' Perhaps they convey some inkling as to how Donald Trump really plans to build his 'Wall' along the Mexican border. He can populate such buildings with armed xenophobes. Seriously, they reveal what a lack of intelligence and taste can do when allowed to run amok.
5
Living in the center of a dense city has many advantages. In the book “Green Metropolis” David Owen argues that Manhattan has a smaller carbon footprint per capita than the tree-lined suburbs it is often compared to. Because of its density, people in the city live in homes which use less energy not only because they are smaller but because they share walls, floors and ceilings with their neighbors. To go to work or buy groceries they are more likely to walk a couple of blocks than drive a car for miles, and they are more likely to use public transit.
11
Unfortunately the carbon footprint seems to rise as affluence rises in NYC.
For example, in Manhattan, increasing numbers of high income households use food delivery services instead of walking to a food market, use Uber instead of bus or subway, etc
For example, in Manhattan, increasing numbers of high income households use food delivery services instead of walking to a food market, use Uber instead of bus or subway, etc
I am concerned that the premise of the article may be built on faulty bedrock if the authors used the data in the interactive map to come to their conclusions. For example, the building identified as 353 West 57th Street (currently 358 West 58th Street) is cited as having "too much commercial density" which begs the question since it's the Hudson Hotel.
6
One of the most fascinating and inspiring aspects of our city is the architecture. It is diverse, quirky, both beautifully historic, and also innovative. We are truly fortunate to live in a city in which one can walk down nearly any block and find something interesting to look at.
That is truly something to cherish. I recognize that progress always happens- it's fascinating and jarring to look at photographs of the city from the late 19th century and compare what used to exist, with what exists in those locations today.
At the same time, we seem to have been going through a major building boom in the past ten years or so. Sometimes, these buildings replace dilapidated and unsightly edifices, so no big loss. Other times, however, we lose a bit of our history. A walk down 57th street is a perfect illustration. I was lucky enough to have my first job in a townhouse next door to Rizzoli bookstore. Both of these buildings are now dirt lots, no doubt awaiting yet another sleek and cold glass tower.
The illustrations of the Jones Street and 720 Park buildings are good examples. Sure, they don't "conform", but there is a certain unique vitality there, which adds to the dynamic and diverse nature of our city. You can have laws and guidelines without sacrificing artistry and soul.
That is truly something to cherish. I recognize that progress always happens- it's fascinating and jarring to look at photographs of the city from the late 19th century and compare what used to exist, with what exists in those locations today.
At the same time, we seem to have been going through a major building boom in the past ten years or so. Sometimes, these buildings replace dilapidated and unsightly edifices, so no big loss. Other times, however, we lose a bit of our history. A walk down 57th street is a perfect illustration. I was lucky enough to have my first job in a townhouse next door to Rizzoli bookstore. Both of these buildings are now dirt lots, no doubt awaiting yet another sleek and cold glass tower.
The illustrations of the Jones Street and 720 Park buildings are good examples. Sure, they don't "conform", but there is a certain unique vitality there, which adds to the dynamic and diverse nature of our city. You can have laws and guidelines without sacrificing artistry and soul.
3
Most of New York's infrastructure could not be built today, due to myopic governance.
9
Manhattan is where the Ice Age ended, and because of that, it is bedrock. So it can support buildings as tall as they can be built. And they should be built. It's what defines Manhattan.
5
I wonder how this was done. I live in one of the buildings identified as having too many apartments. I wonder how can three apartments in a four story townhouse can be deemed as "too many".
3
The "Good Times" of this incredible building boom are going to roll roll roll roll! Like the roaring 1920s I reckon. But like the end of the 20s, there will be a downturn, likely in the early 2020s. Enjoy it now, zoning or no.
I like to say we've been Bloomberged. But the race for the developers to build build build in a sort of modern day gold rush... will eventually result in the manner of those oil-rich areas of the USA that are suddenly suffering. Stuff will dry up and housing prices will go down. Its a far way off right now, but its gonna happen.
Or? maybe thats all my wishful thinking.
I like to say we've been Bloomberged. But the race for the developers to build build build in a sort of modern day gold rush... will eventually result in the manner of those oil-rich areas of the USA that are suddenly suffering. Stuff will dry up and housing prices will go down. Its a far way off right now, but its gonna happen.
Or? maybe thats all my wishful thinking.
1
Aren't these codes partly a reaction to what existed in Manhattan already when they were promulgated? They don't necessarily mean that the municipal government doesn't want dense city anymore. If someday, Manhattan becomes less dense due to these codes, they could be changed again.
1
New York City has to look to Houston, Texas as the model to help level out or bring down the cities lack of commercial and residential space. Houston has No zoning. People like to make all types of arguments for zoning, however the bottom line is that it causes massive market distortions to meet the demands of the city's population, it also makes sure to keep the "gentrified" landlord class in power.
Why? Because through another form of over regulating the economy, in this example creating mini oligopolies, there isn't market competition. China doesn't have zoning, they can get things done like the people of Houston do. New York is simply using an outdated philosophy that really helps to keep the people down. Bill DeBlasio needs to wake up and create less land regulation than more.
Why? Because through another form of over regulating the economy, in this example creating mini oligopolies, there isn't market competition. China doesn't have zoning, they can get things done like the people of Houston do. New York is simply using an outdated philosophy that really helps to keep the people down. Bill DeBlasio needs to wake up and create less land regulation than more.
2
Perhaps Houston should have zoning laws since it shows up extremely high on America's most polluted cities. NYC is limited as to actual growth areas to be able to handle much more population growth. NYC has little area to expand horizontally so goes vertically. "China doesn't have zoning, they can get things done." How about because they have a dictatorship as to controlling whatever they wish to do? Do this so says the ruling party and there is no appeal. And YOU complain about landlord supposed power? NYC has always been marketplace oriented as to living space. That's why artists and the young once went to the West Village for cheap rents until market forces drove those rents higher so the East Village became the spot and now Brooklyn to some degree. No zoning? So somebody could put in a chicken farm next to YOU? "to meet the demands of the city's population," Isn't that what is suppose to happen? Or is it to meet the demands of those wishing to build whatever knowing they won't be living next door? Market competition is driven by what people want and will spend. Its always been that way. NYC has always had qualities that people will spend for. And its always had its areas less costly for the so called under class. yeah there should be no zoning so we can build refineries next to schools or a fertilizer plant that did explode in Texas that did damage to the next door school. You can always trust the capitalists to build correctly on their own without overseeing them.
13
Everything I've read has explained how much Houston is a mess because of this.
12
There are many areas in the outer boroughs with little or no zoning regulation. You can go to Queens and see what it creates--overbuilt, overcrowded neighborhoods with little green space, enormous multi-family mcmansions that max out lots and pave over front yards for multiple driveways, and overburdened services like parking, public transit, even dry cleaning, etc. In the past these were areas with modest single-family houses with leafy backyards. So much for that, when you can rent out three apartments for $2k each and more for the parking!
6
Interesting article, since Manhattan is the focal point of it and is an island that cannot get any bigger should these laws address the point when it's filled up? Regardless how you cut it at some point the island will reach the maximum number of people that can come to work here and/or live here regardless of how much they are willing to spend.
9
"at some point the island will reach the maximum number of people that can come to work here and/or live here"
It some point the island could be a gleaming forest of extremely high priced vacant condos all hiding $$ from oligarchs of other countries.
It some point the island could be a gleaming forest of extremely high priced vacant condos all hiding $$ from oligarchs of other countries.
5
NEW YORK NEW YORK Is unique because of its gigantism. There are skyscrapers elsewhere that are taller than in NYC. But in Europe, buildings are shorter. Paris retains its more liveable proportions due to its building codes. That and perhaps the fact that it is built upon soil from which plaster of Paris had been dug up. Not the solid bedrock of Manhattan. Tant mieux--so much the better. I used to find Manhattan to be exciting, but now find it overwhelming with the excruciating noise levels, overwhelming mobs (try to walk down a crowded street in the rain without getting your eyeball poked out by umbrellas and the oblivious people who carry them). I'm born in Philadelphia and live in a suburb right across the city line, the only city in the hemisphere that has been declared a World Heritage site. Though we have cluttered center city with some awful skyscrapers that truly reflect the change in the town with all their mirror glass, some of the historic skyline is still visible. My grandfather, who was an architect, used to rail against the apartment buildings that designed in the 50s, since he was part of the neoclassical movement that adorned museum row here (designed by Hausmann, who did the Champs Elysees in Paris). Our art museum is designed after mount Olympus with several temple near the river. It's a grand place, even if one of the tourist draws happens to be the grossly misplaced statue tucked away near the steps made famous by the Rocky salute.
6
Suggest that The New York Times report on the buildings going up in lower Manhattan particularly below Chambers Street - and the impact of unfettered development.
There is an astonishing amount of construction on narrow streets with little space. There are three buildings (high rise, luxury) in different stages going up on Fulton Street, a major westbound street. A luxury building/hotel on Beekman near Park Row. Demolition of the low rise J&R buildings on Park Row to make way for more big buildings. A high-rise hotel on Pearl Street. Low rise buildings being readied for tear down on Nassau Street to join a new luxury high-rise on Nassau. Pace University has expanded.
In 2009, before the overbuilding began, there were hardly any vehicles in the area. Now it is congested with Uber cars, package delivery trucks and construction vehicles. Ambulances can't get through on William or Fulton Street. The narrow sidewalks cannot accommodate piles of trash bags and pedestrians. (When the Gehry building trash is put out on Beekman Street for pick-up, there is no place to walk on the sidewalk).
And suggestion for another NY Times article - that NYC land use and zoning laws and requirements seem not to make any provision for high-rise building trash. So more and more high rise buildings are going up - and no place on the sidewalk for the massive amounts of building trash.
There is an astonishing amount of construction on narrow streets with little space. There are three buildings (high rise, luxury) in different stages going up on Fulton Street, a major westbound street. A luxury building/hotel on Beekman near Park Row. Demolition of the low rise J&R buildings on Park Row to make way for more big buildings. A high-rise hotel on Pearl Street. Low rise buildings being readied for tear down on Nassau Street to join a new luxury high-rise on Nassau. Pace University has expanded.
In 2009, before the overbuilding began, there were hardly any vehicles in the area. Now it is congested with Uber cars, package delivery trucks and construction vehicles. Ambulances can't get through on William or Fulton Street. The narrow sidewalks cannot accommodate piles of trash bags and pedestrians. (When the Gehry building trash is put out on Beekman Street for pick-up, there is no place to walk on the sidewalk).
And suggestion for another NY Times article - that NYC land use and zoning laws and requirements seem not to make any provision for high-rise building trash. So more and more high rise buildings are going up - and no place on the sidewalk for the massive amounts of building trash.
22
Did the City zoning bd. take into account the effect shadows from the new too tall bldgs. will have on the trees etc. in Central and other parks?
4
1.) Acquire a building complex that is severely overbuilt.
2.) Remove floor area from multiple floors, creating "duplexes" that are awkward and nonsensible.
3.) "Transfer" that floor area to build additional stories of penthouses and privatized terraces on top of these overbuilt buildings
4.) Having put one over on the Zoning and Land Use folks, laugh all the way to the bank.
5.) If one can pull this off on an NYC Landmark, (i.e. The Chatsworth and Annex), piling a couple of shiny new stories of "bunkers" atop a glorious, two storied slate and limestone mansard roof, a highly visible and heinously non-contextual "fist in the eye", blocking the sun from Riverside Park for half the year, so much the better.
6.) Continue to pimp the buildings as a PreWar Landmark, and cash in, accordingly.