I think I am smarter than Angela Merkel. I realized long before she did that inviting Syrians to Germany was a really bad idea. I have been following the stories of the migrants coming to Europe this year and really cringe at the thought of what will become of Europe and wish that these folks would have headed to other Arab countries where they would fit in better.
65
Beautiful read. I wonder, are those who say that the West should not take in refugees the descendants of those who refused boats of Holocaust refugees entry to the US, or the ones who declared Italians as "not quite white" and agents of communism, or the Irish Catholics the bringers of destruction onto Protestant America? In this country, unless you are a Native American, your ancestors came from elsewhere, and unless you are the descendants of slaves, they came voluntarily seeking a better life, so that their decendants- aka YOU- had a better future. Not to spread ideologies. These Syrian refugees are having a picnic in a park drinking beer without hijabs and beards so pray tell what is so un-European about that? It is so disgusting that in this country the inheritors of a rich immigrant history are audacious enough to take time to sit on the internet and rage on those doing exactly what their ancestors did. What an indictment of this country.
20
They are not refugees but economic migrants. They will burden Europe and it remains that they are invading countries.
48
The story of the Majid family, 13 in number, is well told until we reach the final paragraphs. There Times reporters quote Ahmad Majid (in condensed form): ‘our days are spent in idleness, there is no school for the children, Swedish lessons are not available’, and in direct quote, “…if things were better in Syria we would go back tomorrow”
Not one word in closing about the herculean effort being made by Sweden, population 9,600,000 to take in 8,000 or more refugees every single week – not just the single Majid family.
To put this in perspective what will my fellow Americans in this "Sweden in New England" cluster – MA-VT-NH-ME- provide when 8000 refugees begin to arrive there each week for the next 52 weeks? Places to sleep, food to eat, English language lessons and school for all.
As a New Englander I know the answer.
So NYT you owe me a serious article about what one of my two countries, Sweden, is doing and contrasting that with what my other country, USA is doing.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen USA-SE
See graphs at: http://www.migrationsverket.se/Om-Migrationsverket/Statistik.html
Not one word in closing about the herculean effort being made by Sweden, population 9,600,000 to take in 8,000 or more refugees every single week – not just the single Majid family.
To put this in perspective what will my fellow Americans in this "Sweden in New England" cluster – MA-VT-NH-ME- provide when 8000 refugees begin to arrive there each week for the next 52 weeks? Places to sleep, food to eat, English language lessons and school for all.
As a New Englander I know the answer.
So NYT you owe me a serious article about what one of my two countries, Sweden, is doing and contrasting that with what my other country, USA is doing.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen USA-SE
See graphs at: http://www.migrationsverket.se/Om-Migrationsverket/Statistik.html
21
When the Spaniards started to flood Europe during the Spanish Civil War (1936 - 1939) same was said about them: we were reds, communists, zealots, bigots, thieves who come to destroy the harmony of the European countries and who refused to adhere to their laws. As Syrians today, we crossed the mountains by foot to France, or cramped boats crossing the Mediterranean sea for safety. As Syrians today, we were herd to concentration camps and prisons, families separated.
When the Second World War started, we were the first to step in for Europe. Thousands of these refugees died fighting against the Nazis, protecting the very same countries who did not welcome them. They died in Narvik, protecting Norway. In Dunkerke, covering the retreat of the British forces. They were the first to enter in Paris.
Think about this next time you plan to say something mean about these people.
When the Second World War started, we were the first to step in for Europe. Thousands of these refugees died fighting against the Nazis, protecting the very same countries who did not welcome them. They died in Narvik, protecting Norway. In Dunkerke, covering the retreat of the British forces. They were the first to enter in Paris.
Think about this next time you plan to say something mean about these people.
21
I am stunned by the comments. Fleeing kidnapping, prison, bombs, no medical care, Turks with no fondness for Kurds, no future for their children, loss of all assets and NYT responders criticize comments made by an exhausted family after making a thousand mile exodus. Of course they miss the life they left behind and feel frustrated they cannot begin right away to rebuild. Have commentors no empathy? Could you do what they have done?
This family changed their names to match Swedish norms, removed head scarfs, want to start a business, and have a cohesive familial unit. Sweden is lucky. The nasty racial response ("didn't ask you to come") to a pregnant woman concerned about her child--really, this is a sign of bad things to come from the Majids?
This family changed their names to match Swedish norms, removed head scarfs, want to start a business, and have a cohesive familial unit. Sweden is lucky. The nasty racial response ("didn't ask you to come") to a pregnant woman concerned about her child--really, this is a sign of bad things to come from the Majids?
30
A piece that both illustrates man's inhumanity and the strength of family. How could anyone not want to help these people! How could anyone believe that the leaders of this family would become a burden on any society that they settled in? It is truly sad that they are being treated so badly that they regret having made this arduous journey!
15
After filing my primary comment I have read the comments. Once again I am appalled at the extraordinary frequency with which xenophobic, racist, and totally ill informed comments appear. I write "once again" since I read every article in the Times that deals with the flood of refugees from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, and Iraq - top 4 for the 8000 who come to Sweden every week - and without fail even among reader recommended there will be such comments.
I cannot reply to each and every one, therefore this submission.
A note on two words I used above: Swedish has a perfect word - främlingfientlighet - for xenophobic. Fearing or hating the foreign is the most important form that "racism" takes in Sweden at present and judging from comments the same is true in the USA. And the word "racism" is much more all embracing than it is seen in the white against black racism in the US.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen USA-SE
I cannot reply to each and every one, therefore this submission.
A note on two words I used above: Swedish has a perfect word - främlingfientlighet - for xenophobic. Fearing or hating the foreign is the most important form that "racism" takes in Sweden at present and judging from comments the same is true in the USA. And the word "racism" is much more all embracing than it is seen in the white against black racism in the US.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen USA-SE
14
Wonderful piece! What determination these people have! Most of us will be fortunate enough to never become stateless and homeless at all. It is hard to imagine suffering not only the hardship of such travel, but the humiliation and uncertainty of the trip. Such a trip would be overwhelming even if there was certainty about the destination and assurance of a good home and living once one got there. To reach a destination with not assurance of housing or the ability to sustain the family must be beyond frightening. Yet, people living in the kind of war zone Syria has been have few choices.
Clearly their desire is to eventually return to Syria. Hopefully they will be welcomed and helped for the present. These are hard-working, determined folks who would be an asset to any community - given a chance.
Clearly their desire is to eventually return to Syria. Hopefully they will be welcomed and helped for the present. These are hard-working, determined folks who would be an asset to any community - given a chance.
16
They are grieving the loss of a way of life, a language, an identity. I suspect they know they cannot go back to Syria in their lifetimes even if the olive trees are still there.
11
I smell a Pulitzer. Absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for humanizing the VICTIMS of a war torn country.
14
Northern Europe's governments have gone totally insane with political correctness. Germany in particular. Enemies of democracies understand this and know just how to take advantage of such foolishness.
62
Thank you NYT for personalizing what has become a news sound bite. There but for the grace of God this could be any one of us or our loved ones (for me personally, I KNOW this struggle mirrors those of prior generations in my family). I especially appreciate seeing and hearing about this family's grit, humor, perseverance, hope and resourcefulness. These are not nameless and faceless victims.
19
Thank you, Anemona, for persevering and remaining with this family through their journey so we may better understand the challenges they've faced. Committed journalists have a unique role to play in the human drama.
Blessings on the Majhid family and their countrymen.
Blessings on the Majhid family and their countrymen.
17
I don't remember anywhere in this article where it discusses the RESPONSIBILITY of the illegal refugees to adhere to the laws and customs of the country they think they're going to stay in.
While the family highlighted is supposedly more secular, do they understand that they must live with and accept existing rights for gays, Jews, free-press and women that may not be compatible with their own cultural or religious beliefs?
Or do they think that they are only responsible to show up and collect benefits, rights for themselves, and jobs?
Those pesky little facts aren't covered in this article, despite the length of time the writer spent with the family.
While the family highlighted is supposedly more secular, do they understand that they must live with and accept existing rights for gays, Jews, free-press and women that may not be compatible with their own cultural or religious beliefs?
Or do they think that they are only responsible to show up and collect benefits, rights for themselves, and jobs?
Those pesky little facts aren't covered in this article, despite the length of time the writer spent with the family.
87
The migrants are responsible for adhering to the laws and customs of the country in which they are going to stay.
Happy now?
Happy now?
4
"...that they must live with and accept existing rights for gays, Jews, free-press and women that may not be compatible with their own cultural or religious beliefs?..."
Just the way everyone in our country accepts these existing rights?
Just the way everyone in our country accepts these existing rights?
8
And would you be asking if "they understand that they must live with and accept the existing rights for gays..." if they were Evangelical Christians? There are lots of folks in all Western nations who do not at all think there are "existing rights for gays" and who likely see what you might see as rights for women very differently.
As to the facts not coming up "in the length of time the writer spent with the family" - I'm guessing that gay rights and freedom of the press are simply not topics of discussion when adults are worrying about "pesky little" things like bread for the children, being shot, or getting under a razor wire fence.
As to the facts not coming up "in the length of time the writer spent with the family" - I'm guessing that gay rights and freedom of the press are simply not topics of discussion when adults are worrying about "pesky little" things like bread for the children, being shot, or getting under a razor wire fence.
13
These migrants have sky high expectations. I think the line at the end "We didn't ask you to come here." is very apt. What did they expect? European countries can barely handle their own people and their own economies. They will buckle under this tremendous strain, the only question is when.
87
@ gaurav-that line "We didn't ask you..." is serious misrepresentation. The Times reporters fell apart completely in those last paragraphs. Exactly who said that if someone actually did say that. I work with incoming refugees every week, I follow all reports carefully. Have filed a comment on this.
Dual citizen USA-SE
Dual citizen USA-SE
3
These families did endure incredible hardship in their odyssey to Sweden, even though they were able to pay for expert help all along the way. Is anyone else a bit frightened for Europe? When razored fences, police and military border patrols, detention, etc only slow or redirect the onslaught of people determined at all costs to reach the richest countries? When countries are already criticized for relatively humane measures to manage and control the numbers, and are stretched to the limit of their resources?
60
The people and governments of Europe are being taken for fools. These so called "refugees" have only one goal, and this freely entering and demanding settlement in the richest country they can reach. Meanwhile the governments have been made impotent by the media's insistence in painting this as a pc humanitarian disaster. It is not. These people go on to have polygamous families, with each men having at least 2-3 wives, each supported by the state and with at least a dozen children between them. To be PC only works in the western world for western people. Good luck, Europe. Maybe we avoid such a disaster on our shores.
80
What part of military-age men cowardly fleeing Syria for a culture totally alien to their own am I failing to appreciate?
80
I'm quite astonished by the lack of empathy and sympathy expressed, in so many of the comments, for a father who is simply trying to get his family out of a war-stricken country to a safer place and a chance for a future. Does he sound a bit petulant and complaining? Yes. But perhaps he thought he'd be met with some kind of human kindness on his travels. Fat chance... this world has become a cold, cold place. And, before all the cynics jump down my throat, I acknowledge that the refugee problem is a huge one for Europe but these are human beings caught in a horrible situation. What are all these people supposed to do other than just wait to be kidnapped, persecuted, conscripted, killed?What would these commentators who are so dismissive of this family's plight do if they were in the same position?
34
There are shelters, there are refugee camps. He just probably "missed" these thousands of miles ago. I guess google maps can be tricky like that *eyeroll*
28
Sorry JMR, but we are just not going to be all that sympathetic to arab muslims, whose sole response 70 years ago to jews fleeing the Holocaust was "let them burn", and who are still trying to wipe them out in Israel ("stab a jew today"?)
The disgusting, appalling hypocrisy displayed by these arab muslims - who are amazingly able to still keep having more babies during such "trying" times - demanding they be fed, clothed, sheltered and given welfare money, while their bretheren are ethnically cleansing all of the non-muslims out of the mideast.
The NYT and its decrepit editorial board can line up another 1,000 sob story pieces like this trying to elicit sympathy for these economic migrants for the next decade, but it will have ZERO impact on us. We can see right through their efforts to manipulate this mass horde of young, military-age men seeking welfare and handouts into a family sob story. We are not buying what you are selling.
The disgusting, appalling hypocrisy displayed by these arab muslims - who are amazingly able to still keep having more babies during such "trying" times - demanding they be fed, clothed, sheltered and given welfare money, while their bretheren are ethnically cleansing all of the non-muslims out of the mideast.
The NYT and its decrepit editorial board can line up another 1,000 sob story pieces like this trying to elicit sympathy for these economic migrants for the next decade, but it will have ZERO impact on us. We can see right through their efforts to manipulate this mass horde of young, military-age men seeking welfare and handouts into a family sob story. We are not buying what you are selling.
70
I think most NY Times readers would feel empathy for a single refugee family. But the reality is hundreds of thousands of mostly young Muslim men are all crashing the gates -- with strident economic demands and strange religious customs. This is a recipe for disaster for Europe and the West.
75
If there are no trash cans you carry your trash with you until you find a proper receptacle.
44
Dear G-d, Stephanie, they're carrying their children and all their worldly goods on their back! Wouldn't you be better served criticizing the local authorities in those countries for not providing better trash disposal?
21
The best course of action would be to drop tons of contraceptives on Syria. Seems like in every article about a refugee family the woman is pregnant and has several young children.
You want to pull for this family but it's not always easy. They seem to have a sense of entitlement about where they are going to settle and how they ought to be treated. You don't sense a ton of appreciation.
You want to pull for this family but it's not always easy. They seem to have a sense of entitlement about where they are going to settle and how they ought to be treated. You don't sense a ton of appreciation.
135
I have proposed,open borders everywhere, for anyone willing to undergo medical sterilization. Population pressure is the underlying theme in all these mass migrations, and it will only get worse with each month, each year, as climate change causes ever more war and famine.
11
I grew up listening to harrowing stories of forced migration that the Turks forced on Armenians. My gramps made it here in the 20's, my dad in the 40's. There is not a day that goes by that I don't feel blessed to live in Michigan, and take nothing for granted. If you told me 50 years ago we would be seeing this kind of refugee crisis I would have thought you were crazy. Now I see a dark and foreboding future for humanity. Overpopulation, religious wars and climate change could make the Syrian crisis seem trivial. There is no hope.
30
I really just don't envision this male dominated/female subjugated migration every assimilating well into any western society. I have no desire for an entire population of men who think I'm a second class citizen because I'm female to put down roots here in America. I already have career issues trying to break the glass ceiling, but otherwise I am proud to live in a society where I call the shots in my own life.
101
Like the US does not have enough homegrown religious nuts, we need to import even more?
38
Stereotype much? Why are people so quick to assume that all refugees are religious zealots, bigots and/or terrorists, and they have no desire to fit into a country who provides them refuge? Don't tar them all with the same brush. I would flee their circumstances, too. And it seems to me that this family wants to work and set up a life, not become dependent. If they were welcomed with opportunity they might eventually become grateful and contributing citizens of their new home. Many US immigrants are.
And if the situation in Syria improves anytime soon (doubtful), these people will return to rebuild there. But if it drags on, they will put down roots. Even just to be pragmatic, can we not accept that some Syrian refugees will live among us, and it is in our collective best interest for them to succeed and contribute?
And if the situation in Syria improves anytime soon (doubtful), these people will return to rebuild there. But if it drags on, they will put down roots. Even just to be pragmatic, can we not accept that some Syrian refugees will live among us, and it is in our collective best interest for them to succeed and contribute?
11
Kay, this is no assumption, there are quite a few studies of the social structure of these illegal migrants and their real, religions driven, motivations.
They are very, very much in line with what the Quran says about the role and treatment of women, gays and other groups that do not fit into Syrian, Iraq, Saudi Arabian mainstream.
They are quite in line with the social structures at home, that is Syria and Iraq.
And it is safe to assume that these people do not change once they cross illegally into Europe.
Quite the opposite, if one looks at what is happening in places like Malmö.
But of course, those issues only come way after the illegal migrants have been welcomed by scores of people with placards that say "Refugees Welcome"
They are very, very much in line with what the Quran says about the role and treatment of women, gays and other groups that do not fit into Syrian, Iraq, Saudi Arabian mainstream.
They are quite in line with the social structures at home, that is Syria and Iraq.
And it is safe to assume that these people do not change once they cross illegally into Europe.
Quite the opposite, if one looks at what is happening in places like Malmö.
But of course, those issues only come way after the illegal migrants have been welcomed by scores of people with placards that say "Refugees Welcome"
21
What a targeted, myopic story. What's worse is that these people are complaining about their own decisions and consequences, expecting everybody else to pick up the pieces of their lives, when they can't even be bothered to follow any legal procedures to resettle. Or stay and fight their own battles.
Merkel is destroying Germany and trying to force her stupidity on the rest of Europe. It's not going to work. And there will be problems trying to integrate these illegal migrants into society when the lands of milk and honey no longer appear as green as they initially beckoned.
Merkel is destroying Germany and trying to force her stupidity on the rest of Europe. It's not going to work. And there will be problems trying to integrate these illegal migrants into society when the lands of milk and honey no longer appear as green as they initially beckoned.
110
Fantastic, informatative story, incredibly well put together and written, and the images accompanying it are both helpful in understanding the situation and in some cases, just beautiful. The image behind the headline is a work of art. Congratulations to the writer and the photographers.
19
Why are these "refugees" not streaming towards Saudi Arabia? We are witnessing the Islamization of Europe and the undoing of Charlemagne King of the Franks' resistance. How long before a generation of disaffected Jihadis crops up? The enemy within? The end of Christian civilization Europe
94
Gosh - seems like only yesterday that the Romans were saying similar things about the Christians. Time flies!
10
Because the Saudis are smart...they know the history of the enormous 'refugee' camps in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Gaza, etc., etc. And they don't want to set up the same poisonous camps in their midst.
You wouldn't, either -- and Western Europe will be sorry.
You wouldn't, either -- and Western Europe will be sorry.
39
The kinder part of welcoming refugees rather than seeing them as a threat is the better way. Terrific story.
17
Ahmad Majid complains, “[The warlords] take young people and just brainwash them; give them weapons, tell them they want to give them a car. These are kids — 14, 15 years old.”
And yet, he apparently has a 7-year-old daughter with his 22-year-old wife, meaning that he impregnated her when she was only 15, or maybe 14. I guess he didn’t think ending a girl's childhood prematurely was such a crime. Perhaps less misogyny and more contraception would make the Middle East a better place.
And yet, he apparently has a 7-year-old daughter with his 22-year-old wife, meaning that he impregnated her when she was only 15, or maybe 14. I guess he didn’t think ending a girl's childhood prematurely was such a crime. Perhaps less misogyny and more contraception would make the Middle East a better place.
122
And less Western self-righteous paternalism would make the US a better place...
2
Sheila - I see nowhere in this article that states that the daughter is his wife's. Perhaps she's a child from a previous marriage - like many in the U.S.? It's so easy to judge isn't it?
3
To JMR: A fair point. Any more information, Ms. Hartocollis? (The article does say Jamila is the mother of four-year-old Zain, making her 18 at the time of his birth: Better than 15, but still very young.)
6
As always, a moving story of the refugee plight brings out the cold and heartless anti-immigrant throngs to comment at the NYT. I bet some of them call themselves Christians too, even though Jesus advised to be kind to the poor and needy among us. They are lucky--that is all, simply lucky--to not be in this family's shoes. The heartless comments make me sick. Not refugees? After being kidnapped and threatened with conscription? I hope only for the best for this family and admire their courage.
34
What about their fellow muslim brethren in Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, and Yemen?? HEARTLESS!!!!
28
I too would love to help the poor and needy. But when you your self become stripped, you can no course no longer help. Then two families or two countries are striped bare. What does that help? One must use common sense when deciding to help. Compassion for the needy, compassion for yourself and for your family and/for your country.
11
Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq have hundreds of thousands of miserable refugees mostly existing under the most awful conditions. They are bursting at the seams with little aid from others. Other countries have opportunities and personal danger that are equal or worse than the regions these poor people have left. The Saudis, Kuwaiti and other oil-rich countries are already packed with menial laborers with visas from around the planet and desire no more foreigners, especially war victims.
9
This is a beautifully told story.
It's clear this family had a good life in Syria before the fighting began. What makes me so angry is how countries providing a good life for their citizens have been destroyed.
I also sympathize with Europeans who feel overwhelmed by those coming uninvited in search of a better life.
It's clear this family had a good life in Syria before the fighting began. What makes me so angry is how countries providing a good life for their citizens have been destroyed.
I also sympathize with Europeans who feel overwhelmed by those coming uninvited in search of a better life.
20
Our new Canadian prime minister promises to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees - before the year's end. He said it was not just an empty campaign promise. Yes, just a tiny portion but it will make a huge difference to 25,000 lives and is better than nothing - and certainly better than the hostility and blaming the victim comments I see so frequently here.
16
Germany receives that many every 2 days. Just to give you some perspective. I'm certainly not suggesting you copy Germany on this however. Far from it.
26
let's hope Canada is not their "Denmark" and they appreciate by staying there.
6
To think that all of this suffering is human-caused. It is very sad, reading about families in desperation because they are denied the ability and the right to provide basic needs for their children. It is a fundamental part of the human condition to want to raise a family and to nurture and provide for their children. For these many families, the good news for them has been reduced to, "It's better than dying."
23
How heartwarming; the large clan persisted to celebrate Eid al-Adha -- the Islamic "festival" wherein Muslims traditionally and crudely slaughter animals in the streets to honor their deity and their prophet -- in their last migrant berth. (There is a movement in Australia to stop the export of live animals to Muslim countries because of the horrifying torture the animals endure in the name of Allah.) While Mr. Ahmad might believe he will "meld with the Swedish people," it's evident from this (and from his frustration that the many free goods and services he expected are not instantly forthcoming at his demand) that it would be to everyone's benefit if they were all enthusiastically assisted in his desired return to Syria.
79
Better that how us westerners traditionally and crudely slaughter innocent humans /civilians with our guns, or our slaughter houses that feed animals in conveyor belts to slaughter? Seems like the myth of the Grinch is true in this case for California ....
5
I can't see the benefit of Australia exporting live animals overseas, because yes, that would entail quite a lot of suffering for the animals to travel such distances. However, the snark in your comment was downright nasty.
It *is* heartwarming for families to hold onto traditions; and it is heartwarming for families to celebrate holidays. It is heartwarming when people get the food that they need. I *do* eat meat, and I have witnessed the slaughter of animals for this holiday. In my experience, the killing has not been "crude." It has been quick, efficient, compassionate, and clean. People use all of the animal that they can. It was not fun to watch, and surely it's not done that well everywhere, but done the right way, this festival has a purpose (and no, no quotation marks on festival. Feeding hungry people can be a festive occasion.)
It *is* heartwarming for families to hold onto traditions; and it is heartwarming for families to celebrate holidays. It is heartwarming when people get the food that they need. I *do* eat meat, and I have witnessed the slaughter of animals for this holiday. In my experience, the killing has not been "crude." It has been quick, efficient, compassionate, and clean. People use all of the animal that they can. It was not fun to watch, and surely it's not done that well everywhere, but done the right way, this festival has a purpose (and no, no quotation marks on festival. Feeding hungry people can be a festive occasion.)
5
Please Google "Eid al-Adha slaughter" and make up your own minds. Australian livestock ranchers depend upon Muslim markets, and yet even they have had enough of the religious cruelty.
22
I get that times have changed, but when "refugees" are wearing nicer clothes than me and are all using there smart phones in the pictures, it makes you think what they really are. What gives them the right to skip the immigration lines that people from war torn African nations have to wait in the same lines even though they can't even afford a cell phone, let alone food. This is an abuse of the proper immigration system and needs to be dealt with. Personally, I am done with the attitudes that Syrians have toward law and order and if they can't respect laws, they should dealt with quickly and exported from the EU.
121
Your attitude is selfish and disheartening, and makes me sick. They are not economic refugees, they are fleeing a war torn country. I guarantee that if the United States were mired in civil war, your brother had been kidnapped, and you were fearful for your family's lives, you too would leave. Smartphone and nice clothes and all.
19
Some refugees in Europe in the war had diamonds and jewels, gold and money sewn into their clothes - does that make them any the less deserving of compassion? Does access to money automatically deny refugee status?
Many in WWII fleeing for their lives were denied refugee status were made to wait for a formal process of "immigration", were denied papers and a safe haven in another country and while waiting they were rounded up, imprisoned or executed. Many in the ME have already been targeted, imprisoned or executed.
Never again people say and they say and they say and they say and they say ….
Many in WWII fleeing for their lives were denied refugee status were made to wait for a formal process of "immigration", were denied papers and a safe haven in another country and while waiting they were rounded up, imprisoned or executed. Many in the ME have already been targeted, imprisoned or executed.
Never again people say and they say and they say and they say and they say ….
16
That's an uninformed and superficial attitude to take. Enough with the focus on clothes and phones. Have you been paying attention at all? There are plenty of reasons why people have normal clothes and phones with them in this situation. The topic has been done and *done*. Do you think that people have to be in rags and starving to death before they get any help?
10
I´m sorry for the problems the family are experiencing at the refugee center in Sweden, but currently there are 10000 people a week coming to Sweden so resources: housing, teachers, medical staff, translators and staff at migration agency are a bit strained.
So I suggest a follow up article to get to know the people working at the migration agency, the refugee centers as well as all volunteers.
The worst thing are "dark forces" that during the last week have been setting fire on buildings that are planned to be used as to refugee centers.
So I suggest a follow up article to get to know the people working at the migration agency, the refugee centers as well as all volunteers.
The worst thing are "dark forces" that during the last week have been setting fire on buildings that are planned to be used as to refugee centers.
36
The German stance is a bit like posting an open invitation on facebook stating you would like to offer a bed in your home to people in need. Then when you realise thousands of people have turned up, you call around to your neighbours and insist that they take some also. Not only that, but it is known the newcomers will not ever leave either your house or your neighbours house. If you were that neighbour, what would you say to the person who posted the invitation?
Something is wrong in the world when this level of insanity is allowed to go unchallenged.
Something is wrong in the world when this level of insanity is allowed to go unchallenged.
108
"If you were that neighbour, what would you say to the person who posted the invitation?"
I would say I would welcome the chance to feed, clothe and shelter as many of my fellow humans as I possibly could. Go humanity!
I would say I would welcome the chance to feed, clothe and shelter as many of my fellow humans as I possibly could. Go humanity!
3
"Something is wrong in the world when this level of insanity is allowed to go unchallenged"
It's the media. Germany does not want to do the logical thing and "look bad" and the media, and small groups that control it hate Germany and will love the cheap labor these migrants (not refugees, over half have been proven to NOT be refugees) will provide to their large businesses and interests.
It's the media. Germany does not want to do the logical thing and "look bad" and the media, and small groups that control it hate Germany and will love the cheap labor these migrants (not refugees, over half have been proven to NOT be refugees) will provide to their large businesses and interests.
5
ok but remember your neighbour has just insisted that you take some of these people into your home also, bearing in mind it is known these people will never leave (and don't even speak the language of your town). I assume thats also fine with you and you are willing to turn your warm feelings into actions?
5
I read Anemona Hartocollis's reporting on this family when first appeared in the Times earlier is fall, so much of this story is not new. But the unexplained elements remain: Why did the family leave Turkey? Why did the family leave Germany? Hartocollis writes the "a decision was made" but the story would be much more informative if those decisions were better explained, rather than simply repeating a story, harrowing though it may be, that we have already read.
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Why did the family leave Turkey? That's easy -- greener pastures. Thanks to those smart phones they all carry, they are receiving up to the minute reports as to what country is offering the most benefits.
6
I see the dignity in the faces of the people Sergey and Mauricio photographed. Thank you.
8
Americans are a haughty lot. Most Americans who complain about everybody going back where they came from (which would actually be Africa, so please be specific) are descendants of European immigrants. When the teeming masses of Europeans descended on these American shores in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, they were just huddled masses yearning to breathe free, who also happened to be running away from other Europeans. Now they are held up to symbolize American exceptionalism--but they were actually poorly educated and unskilled, and illegal immigrants. Syrians are primarily middle class and highly educated. They are fleeing a civil war in its fourth year. The Russians cut right to the chase, calling Syrian migrants something along the lines of the N-word, even though their dictator in chief loves Assad. Humanity is thousands and thousands and thousands of years old and has always been on the move, because of climate change and the brutality of other humans. That much hasn't changed. Be careful, narrow-minded Americans, wildfires, water shortages, floods, hurricanes, and gun violence may force many of us to pack up and move. Who'd want us?
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'Narrow minded Americans'? Speak for yourself. We take in more legal immigrants than anyone else, not to mention all the illegal ones living here. Many immigrants were not just running away from other Europeans, they were being forced out or killed in pogroms, like my family. However, they went through immigration legally, they had no health problems and were not turned back, many others were not as fortunate. What gives this family the right to decide they deserve a jump in the line? Why did they leave Turkey in the first place? The neXt time you decide to speak for everyone do us a favor and just keep it to yourself.
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Comparing European immigration to the United States 120 years ago to today’s Syrian influx into Europe is completely invalid. The population density of the U.S. in 1890 was about 18 people per square mile. Germany today has about 588 people per square mile. The burden of new people on the existing population is therefore much greater, as Germans themselves have recognized: They have reduced their birth rate accordingly. If only the Syrians would learn that lesson.
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You got that right!!! 41.3 LEGAL IMMIGRANTS live in the USA. http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-i...
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I sympathize with the Majid families, but the article reinforced my sense that it will be difficult for Europe to assimilate large numbers of immigrants.
The article wasn't clear about how many children each of the three Majid brothers (who were described as the three oldest brothers of their family) had had, but I counted at least eight, including three children born after the war had started. Ahmad's wife is expecting another in November. In the short run, these large families will place a large burden on social welfare systems and taxpayers in their host countries. In the long run, their sheer numbers will give them enormous influence over customs and laws.
The article wasn't clear about how many children each of the three Majid brothers (who were described as the three oldest brothers of their family) had had, but I counted at least eight, including three children born after the war had started. Ahmad's wife is expecting another in November. In the short run, these large families will place a large burden on social welfare systems and taxpayers in their host countries. In the long run, their sheer numbers will give them enormous influence over customs and laws.
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I don't get any impression from reading these articles that the Majid's will not contribute to the societies they settle in. Sounds like you've been watching a little too much Trump TV.
My first impression of this family's struggle is sadness that they have been forced to leave their homeland because of war. But, when I look at your pictures, I see people sitting around doing nothing while the men use their iPhones. How ironic. Next, I read that the wife is pregnant and is indignant that it took her a month to see a doctor - why did this modern day woman allow herself to get pregnant during this experience. Third, I read they are sitting around in refugee camps without schools, etc. Why haven't created their own schools in the refugee camps. My observation is that these Arabs are content to sit idly for days, and years, and do nothing while waiting for somebody to give them a handout. We saw that in the Palestinian refugee camps for 50 years. I believe that these people feel entitle and indignant they are not receiving even more.
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I didn't realize the NYT was so popular among radical conservatives these days! Congratulations, NYT on your improved circulation!
2
You do know Turks are not Arabs? And the article does point out sleep loss and fatigue led to "sitting around" in enforced stasis while they were not allowed to move forward? Oh, and phones carry vital news so I do not think they were playing games online. Have you considered birth control was not available or failed? Happens even here in the U.S.
When he complained, he says, he was told, “We didn’t ask you to come here.”
Ask some of the Armenian-Syrian Christians (who have called the area home for the last couple thousand years) who are fleeing Syria how well cared for and protected by the Muslim majority they've felt over the last couple decades.
Ask some of the Armenian-Syrian Christians (who have called the area home for the last couple thousand years) who are fleeing Syria how well cared for and protected by the Muslim majority they've felt over the last couple decades.
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The fact that he felt entitled to complain says it all.
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Everyone is entitled to complain.
I do not see why anyone should accept abuse of any kind. It is one of the worst types of arrogance to suggest that someone in a strong position should be allowed to abuse someone in a precarious position and that person should just shut up and take it.
That attitude lies at the root of much that is wrong with society the world over.
I do not see why anyone should accept abuse of any kind. It is one of the worst types of arrogance to suggest that someone in a strong position should be allowed to abuse someone in a precarious position and that person should just shut up and take it.
That attitude lies at the root of much that is wrong with society the world over.
6
Interesting the NY Times follows a family - when the UN has reported 70% of the "migrant tide" are adult males. But following a family allows us to hold on to the PC view of these events.
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Do you think that most of those adult males are devoid of any family connections at home, or, more likely, as was covered in the first portion of the article, they have made the awful decision of leaving their families at home and making this incredibly difficult journey on their own because they fear the risk is too great to bear with children, wives, and the elderly? They are moving on their own because it is much easier to do so, with the slim hope that they will eventually be able to bring their families to wherever they settle. The family in this article was able to move as a family in large part because they had access to large amounts of cash. Most of the migrants will not have the means to pay smugglers at every turn for every member of their family.
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Family? Young man? Child? I don't think many readers and most recommended commentators would note any difference - they are just all the "other". Blind pervasive fear, prejudice, ignorance, the careless and the inhumane is the most popular of responses. P.C. it seems does not exist when talking about the "other".
[[Dave Albuquerque, NM
Interesting the NY Times follows a family - when the UN has reported 70% of the "migrant tide" are adult males. But following a family allows us to hold on to the PC view of these events.]]
From an analysis in the Times:
[[As Syrian government forces and other groups take heavy casualties, Syrian men are faced with increasingly aggressive conscription, and many families who nominally support the government have become unwilling to send their sons to serve. Instead, many of them are pooling resources to send these young men abroad.]]
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/28/world/europe/refugee-crisis-europe-syr...
Interesting the NY Times follows a family - when the UN has reported 70% of the "migrant tide" are adult males. But following a family allows us to hold on to the PC view of these events.]]
From an analysis in the Times:
[[As Syrian government forces and other groups take heavy casualties, Syrian men are faced with increasingly aggressive conscription, and many families who nominally support the government have become unwilling to send their sons to serve. Instead, many of them are pooling resources to send these young men abroad.]]
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/28/world/europe/refugee-crisis-europe-syr...
1
Yes, there are many suffering like this. How about the vast majority of migrants who are young males?
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There are many sides to all these stories. Many families only have enough money to pay for one person to be smuggled or as it happens in some cases "saved", because the family has been targeted and is killed while they wait. Also a young man fares better than a young woman alone, she is much more vulnerable to abuse. When they make it and are registered as refugees they can apply for their family to join them, if their family is still alive and free.
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Thank you, angel98, for pointing out the obvious rationales behind these terribly difficult and dangerous decisions. So tired of this aimless, drive-by criticism of "young males" and "adult males." Were I in such a situation, of course I would want all my children to be safe, but if my son could get out, I think I would encourage him to go to where he had a chance to live and to make something of his life. In a life or death situation, I doubt I would be worrying about the finer points of immigration law.
1
Anemona Hartocollis' prose is incredibly evocative and, although the subject matter is a tough issue, I always look forward to reading her observations.
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The first thing to do is stop calling them migrants or refugees, and afford them the status of "we the people."
4
As a basically non-violent person who would never participate in violence except in self-defense, almost every time a NY Times reader comments on refugees, I feel less American and less likely to assist my fellow Americans in their time of need, be it a hurricane, a tornado or some other disaster.
I just won't defend bigots, homophobes, misogynists, racists and xenophobes, even if they might defend me, because most of the time when American act "in my name", it is in a way which they act makes me sick.
Having said that, I am glad that the U.S. military was able to rescue 70+ anti-ISIS fighters yesterday. In fact, the U.S. and Russia should have a pact...right now...that if either a Russian or a Western plane goes down, that the country whose rescue team is closest to the downed plane will go in and try to rescue the pilots...no questions asked. We really do need to cooperate with Russia regardless of our differences in order to take down ISIS.
I just won't defend bigots, homophobes, misogynists, racists and xenophobes, even if they might defend me, because most of the time when American act "in my name", it is in a way which they act makes me sick.
Having said that, I am glad that the U.S. military was able to rescue 70+ anti-ISIS fighters yesterday. In fact, the U.S. and Russia should have a pact...right now...that if either a Russian or a Western plane goes down, that the country whose rescue team is closest to the downed plane will go in and try to rescue the pilots...no questions asked. We really do need to cooperate with Russia regardless of our differences in order to take down ISIS.
11
Your logic absolutely disgusts me. If you're an American, then I would gladly not be called that since you seem to epitomize the central notion of this article: that suffering crosses borders and boundaries, and that human beings usually have the capacity to rally for each other and help when needed.
If you're willing to let your emotions be run by bigots and the small-minded, then you are no better than they are. I almost feel that you're little spiel is an excuse to care less while placing the blame on others.
That, sir, is not American.
If you're willing to let your emotions be run by bigots and the small-minded, then you are no better than they are. I almost feel that you're little spiel is an excuse to care less while placing the blame on others.
That, sir, is not American.
6
"They are so outraged that they tell the police they would never want to live in Denmark. “My son now knows the meaning of the word prison because of you,” Ahmad says he told them."
Yes, that's the attitude of someone who will be grateful for the taxpayer largesse he will likely be receiving for decades to come. Anyone with the slightest real-world experience knows how people become increasingly content with hand-outs, rather than entitled and indignant they are not receiving even more.
Better yet, his young, impressionable children will grow up knowing the real enemy is stingy, backwards Europe. There's no chance they will be attracted to radical Islam and the promise of retribution.
Yes, that's the attitude of someone who will be grateful for the taxpayer largesse he will likely be receiving for decades to come. Anyone with the slightest real-world experience knows how people become increasingly content with hand-outs, rather than entitled and indignant they are not receiving even more.
Better yet, his young, impressionable children will grow up knowing the real enemy is stingy, backwards Europe. There's no chance they will be attracted to radical Islam and the promise of retribution.
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To: Saanvi NYC
Just because they are refugees it doesn't mean they can't complain about the demeaning and abusive behavior of the authorities. Did you actually read the article, they have been through hell, why should they accept even more hell especially when it further impacts their children's well-being? This family (and many others I am sure) is not looking for handouts they are looking for help to get to a place where they have a chance to survive.
As for "become increasingly content with hand-outs" that is a crock, a prejudicial generalization. If anything I would say this family would be a great asset to any society or community they end up in. Plus, it should make you very happy that they have land they can sell to start their own business, lucky for them as it seems that humanity and compassion are in very short supply to nonexistent.
btw: Great reporting by Sergey Ponomarev and Mauricio Lima.
Just because they are refugees it doesn't mean they can't complain about the demeaning and abusive behavior of the authorities. Did you actually read the article, they have been through hell, why should they accept even more hell especially when it further impacts their children's well-being? This family (and many others I am sure) is not looking for handouts they are looking for help to get to a place where they have a chance to survive.
As for "become increasingly content with hand-outs" that is a crock, a prejudicial generalization. If anything I would say this family would be a great asset to any society or community they end up in. Plus, it should make you very happy that they have land they can sell to start their own business, lucky for them as it seems that humanity and compassion are in very short supply to nonexistent.
btw: Great reporting by Sergey Ponomarev and Mauricio Lima.
9
I don't know how else to put this so I'll just say it: comments like yours make me sick.
From your perch in New York you have no clue about the gut-wrenching difficulties these refugees have gone through so please forgive them if they don't live up to your standards of gratitude.
Maybe we should be grateful that you didn't use the standard issue Republican buzzwords "takers" and "free stuff."
Note where I'm writing from. I've seen these refugees close up. I can't imagine how they have the guts and fortitude to do what they're doing. Can you imagine being forced to leave your country of origin under such duress? If you're in Manhattan you probably think a trip to Brooklyn is too much hassle and god forbid if your order from Szechuan Palace is 10 minutes late.
I haven't spoken to any of the refugees but my friends have and they want to find work to support themselves and their families. So spare us your comfy-perch outrage. You just have no clue.
From your perch in New York you have no clue about the gut-wrenching difficulties these refugees have gone through so please forgive them if they don't live up to your standards of gratitude.
Maybe we should be grateful that you didn't use the standard issue Republican buzzwords "takers" and "free stuff."
Note where I'm writing from. I've seen these refugees close up. I can't imagine how they have the guts and fortitude to do what they're doing. Can you imagine being forced to leave your country of origin under such duress? If you're in Manhattan you probably think a trip to Brooklyn is too much hassle and god forbid if your order from Szechuan Palace is 10 minutes late.
I haven't spoken to any of the refugees but my friends have and they want to find work to support themselves and their families. So spare us your comfy-perch outrage. You just have no clue.
1
Denmark is one of the happiest countries in the world, perhaps partly because their government puts their well-being above those of opportunistic migrants. And where else is Denmark supposed to put large numbers of destitute
"irregular" migrants on short notice? Good for them that they have plenty of room in their prisons, unlike the USA where our prisons are full to bursting.
"irregular" migrants on short notice? Good for them that they have plenty of room in their prisons, unlike the USA where our prisons are full to bursting.
11
According to the UNHCR, a refugee is only a refugee as long as immediate danger exists.
After that they are migrants who need to adhere to local laws and visa regulations.
Turkey is a safe country.
Greece is a safe country.
Macedonia is a safe country.
Serbia is a safe country.
Hungary is a safe country.
Austria is a safe country.
Germany is a safe country.
So these people are illegal migrants on their search for a better life but not refugees.
They have broken a number of laws in their trip and now want to be rewarded by a European social welfare state.
Not the best start into a new life, regardless on how heroic they are pictured here.
But maybe the major reason for the upheaval in the Middle East could finally stand up for the mess they created and take all those illegal migrants into the US, feed and clothe them and take care of them.
After that they are migrants who need to adhere to local laws and visa regulations.
Turkey is a safe country.
Greece is a safe country.
Macedonia is a safe country.
Serbia is a safe country.
Hungary is a safe country.
Austria is a safe country.
Germany is a safe country.
So these people are illegal migrants on their search for a better life but not refugees.
They have broken a number of laws in their trip and now want to be rewarded by a European social welfare state.
Not the best start into a new life, regardless on how heroic they are pictured here.
But maybe the major reason for the upheaval in the Middle East could finally stand up for the mess they created and take all those illegal migrants into the US, feed and clothe them and take care of them.
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So do you think that Singapore would let millions just move in on their own? Or do they have controlled entry of foreigners?
26
Wow - it takes a very cold person to try and pass judgement on the 'status' of these fellow human beings who have NOTHING more than hope. At that point does any official 'status' matter? Really?
9
Have you ever thought that perhaps the best way to secure a better future for their children here is not to have any?
I applaud your sense of empathy, but a bit of pragmatic thinking should make you realize how horrific and irresponsible it is for
these "migrants" to force their newborn to go through all this mess in the first place.
I applaud your sense of empathy, but a bit of pragmatic thinking should make you realize how horrific and irresponsible it is for
these "migrants" to force their newborn to go through all this mess in the first place.
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