zen
AbjectEntrance

Fetishization of Foreign Culture and Doubt

It's reasonable to wonder what it is we're doing here, on this English speaking subreddit, discussing something that for most of us seems at least partially foreign...moreso than say water. And yet there's some driving cycle that encourages the continuation of the study...because at least one person is trapped in it, and we believe in that one person. Right? Or does someone have a different experience?

Comments
Zen is a way to get to the true mind. For some it takes only a flash of awakening, for some it takes decades of study. But any way a person can become "enlightened" to the nonissue of reality is the right way. Don't look down on others for needing the words and stories, and don't take for granted the pretty poems of self styled masters. Your analysis of the situation leaves you troubled, because it is not the the journey of another man that should be your focus. Only your own. So go for a walk, friend! Leave the screen and even the books and go have a conversation with a couple of birds or help an old lady across the street.
I actually don't need someone else to tell me what to do.
This sub is so weird, because it’s like, it attracts people who see the shortcomings inherent in any form of teaching, and rather than taking that as a step toward liberation, they use it to inflate their own ego by criticizing everything, as if that’s not just as misguided. Look up the parable of the raft. Teachings are not enlightenment. They’re a way to them. Or build your own raft!
Thank you for your teaching today
Sometimes people are just their rafts. A hazard (mendable) of detachment.
Or stop looking for one.
Speak for yourself.
Theory - this is not how it works.
I do, and it's an invitation for others to speak for themselves as well.
You're welcome to try and test it.
Not sure I understood much of this. Is there supposed to be some special significance to the fact that we're (mostly) English speakers reading and talking about works not originally written in English?
What is it that you think you don't understand exactly?
First, Zen is foreign to everyone. The Flower Sermon Sutra illustrates that, the Chinese response to Zen illustrates that, it's obvi.
Second, every other person is foreign to us. To suggest that we are somehow more intimate with people who write today, in our version of our language, rather than any other time, any other language, is crazy.
Third, Zen isn't a belief system.
Fourth, high school book reports are "being trapped". A bible you worship is being trapped. Or else you think Zen Masters talking about old Cases are trapped.
Fifth, it really sounds like you are trying to work through your own stuff here, rather than looking at the world:
Why not study Zen while you are here? You say "what we are doing here", but you seem to view this forum as foreign.
Wow. From iconistic link I relearned
First, the Flower Sermon Sutra illustrates who Zen isn't foreign to. The Chinese response is more varied than you're making it out to be. It's obvi.
Second, 'speaking the same language' isn't just four words. There's a reason mothers raise their own children most of the time. To suggest that we are somehow less intimate with people we actually interact with, in our version of our language, as opposed to people who aren't genuinely alive, is crazy.
Third, you sound like you really believe that.
Fourth, I don't think about ZM's talking about old cases. But if they're trapped they're trapped.
Fifth, you really don't appreciate some people's contributions to the world.
Why would anyone study Zen? You seem to view this post as foreign.
You're focused far too much on others. That's not how Zen works, I'm afraid.
The irony.
Not interested in your conspiracy. I've enjoyed studying many philosophies and religions and zen particularly is my favorite, and for good reason.
People never seem to be alright with some of us just enjoying something, they have to come up with some garbage theory about why people do things. Give it a rest already.
pEoPlE dO sTuFf BeCaUsE oF hIsToRiCaL tRaUmA
Gimme a break
angery boye
Zen is just another layer of illusion over true reality, but it's closer than some things
I'm talking about real words, not vague abstractions used to make others fall in line.
Egads. The fall(s) of Jerusalem, the fall of Byzantium, even the fall of Rome. Like the losers migrate to the future. I've met several people that felt they had lived in US Civil War era. All as southern sympathizers. All smart enough to not be of same mind now.
Clever rabbit
What sort of books on translation have u read?
None that come to mind, why do you ask?
[deleted]
So what's the enlightenment tradition of your homeland?
I don't bother studying the Chan patriarchs, because the stories are too silly. A certain troll can say that meditation or zazen is not part of zen, if he wants, but Zen being meditation itself and what you can learn therein is the only thing that makes Zen universal rather than some weird fetishization of some weird stories from some foreign secret society that was filled with oddballs at a particular time in China, which is all the Zen of that certain troll is.
I didn't write about 'fetishization of meditation' because it isn't really relevant to this subreddit, but if enough people bring me their pets then I might be inspired to cut them in two.
Same goes for obsessions with 'certain' users.
Why do I (imagine that) I like you so much?
(Asking for a friend)
I think there are certain categories of experience that we can have that shine through our entire being and resonate with others.
Im trapped in it, motherfucker. You all exist for me. You think you exist? Think again. As for culture fetishization, thats only really a problem to the poor fucker who is all hung up on his kinks. Who doesnt exist anyway.
Yeah yeah
I’ve read some of the books, which are discussed here frequently, in different languages. I recommend to do that if you speak more languages than English only. Plus, you should read different translations if available. It’s interesting to see how a different translation can add to the understanding.
understanding?
Rule 1 of Reddit: Do not feed the troll.
Seems OP is making a worthless SJW cultural appropriation argument which in plain English goes something like this: Stop adopting other people's culture/religion. It's bad because reasons and it's bad and he/she doesn't like it because reasons. And stop eating tacos, pizzas and drinking tea because they aren't yours either. Especially, when you have traditions just as good or better and/or truer in your own language. Besides what makes you think you could understand foreign things anyway? You're not Chinese or Japanese. Are you? Ha! Ha!
To which I respond using an ancient story from the Muslim Sufi tradition (careful what you say OP - Muslims are a protected class 🙂) ...
One day a stranger arrived, after dark, to the town where Nasrudin lived and found him on all fours looking rather intently for something under one of the street lights. The stranger decided he should help Nasrudin search, as he was obviously having no luck in finding whatever he was looking for.
"What are we looking for", asked the stranger. "My keys", answered Nasrudin without looking up.
So, the pair continued looking but after a while of this the stranger asked Nasrudin, "Are you sure you lost your keys here?"
"Oh, no. I didn't lose my keys here. I lost them over there in the dark alley."
"Then why are we searching for them here?!", huffed the stranger.
"Because there's more light here." 🙂
People who use SJW unironically....oh the irony.
Thanks. Honestly, I do need more good Islamic stuff to get me past that bit in the Koran about beating your wife. It's the only major religious text I can't read.
Asking what we're doing here is, if we give ourselves some credit, the same as asking why Bodhidharma came from the West.
I have a different experience. I don't feel trapped. I don't think folks get trapped by Zen or the texts. There's a big imaginary exit door, and nobody is stopping anyone from calling it the Gateless Gate.
I'm not in the business of giving credit.
Why do people on this sub comment in prose-like short sentence format?
It’s such a pretence. This pseudo yoda bullshit isn’t practical in real life and going to put my money on it being a performative game for online.
You want comments to be more poetic?
Whiine
When I try to imagine a person wondering why English-speaking people would be interested in an originally non-English topic, I can only picture that person as incredibly xenophobic/ethnocentric.
If you think that's reasonable... well...
I'm not taking responsibility for your imagination.
Aliens, it gotta be!