Co-op Mission Update - Stukov Revamp
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This might be the best change. I hated having to rush to Starport just for vision.
Thematically, it made some sense, as Starports are where you do all/most stuff air related. Also the first time (that I know of at least) mixing Ol/Os with a Terran-like paradigm. Was there anything in lore why Overseer required a Starport?
Making the Armory the end of the tech upgrade line is a nice improvement. I used tell myself Queens could also mimic detection, but I needed a Starport for that, in which case, I may as well just make an Os at that point.
Yes, this is very disappointing
That seems harsh, but.. I'm going to reserve final judgment when I get a chance to try these new changes.
I do feel for those leveling up Stukov from now on... 6 supply for an Inf. Bunker of only 4 rines.
Nothing really wrong with this. It has 6 units once upgraded and only 50 more mins and still no gas. They are still an important unit. Mass bunker was boring and all the other unit buffs will make him much more fun.
Bunker build needed to be addressed and for once they are not just buffing everything else. This is great.
Honestly, Bunkers still seem to be the way to go lol
If nothing else, the continuing contrasting viewpoints is interesting in on itself...
A) your post saying they're still the way to go
B) people saying they went overboard with nerfing Inf. Bunkers.
FWIW, I can still see where folks in camp B are coming from, having concerns that despite the buffs to Stukov's mech, it may STILL not be enough.
I agree lmao
Why the extreme Bunker hate? They try to act like it's a minor nerf, but 50% increase in supply cost is massive. Bunkers already have a huge supply cost, you could have upped it to 5 if the goal was to make it slightly less good. This might invalidate bunkers all-together.
They seem to have gone the same route that Void Rays did in MP from WoL to HotS... they cost more supply, are less useful, but "less useful" doesn't necessarily mean useless.
Honestly I hope it does. Bunkers should be the way to go in defense-missions. Not in every mission. It makes no sense logically that mass bunkers is better than banshees or diamondbacks for pushing missions...and god it is boring also...
Won't. If you only want to defend with them bunkers, they'll still be good as hell. And bunkers will still shit out enough infested troopers to slowly overwhelm the enemy, but it'll take more time.
Because it’s boring to see the exact same strat used. In. Every. Single. Game.
Well....I'm glad I got my Bunker Stukov itch scratched on last week's Void Launch mutation, where I built nothing but bunkers for a week. (I stopped even breaking my gas rocks after the first 5 or so runs through).
Inf. Liberators got buffed very nicely I’ll give em that.
Infested Diamondbacks not getting their damage point reduced will still keep me away from them with a 50km stick.
"Damage point"? As in more hp or armor?
I was complaining about no content, but after seeing this I wish there was no new content
Arguably I feel like stukov’s mech should gain a slight 10-20% bump to health in addition to the changes made here though that’s me as someone who only occasionally play stukov. But bunker nerf is a bit... harsh...
Really don’t like most of this. The mech changes are very meh compared to some of the other commanders and bunkers are fine most people I play with randomly don’t even mass them.
They just build barracks and spam a for certain maps. Also viable on certain maps and comps.
I love his bunker spam, why nerf it?
Bunkers alone isnt that worthwhile of a strat. You can either supply/mineral block yourself by putting too many scv's to work building bunkers, or build marines (which spawn almost immediately, and often make it to the fight before the civilians). Civs are only good for siege tank ammo and distraction
This feels like entirely the wrong way to rebalance stukov. The bunker supply change is a massive nerf. If they wanted to reign in the strategy as they say, there's far better ways to do it.
the strat isn't even overpowered by any means, it's merely... about as good as what other commanders do.
I wonder if the spawn brooding ability will spawn two per time it is used on a unit or just two over all.
I assume just two but don't think it would matter, broodlings are only there just to stall for other units.
I think it's 2 overall, like the corpser roach. Just applies an effect of "spawn 2 broodlings on death"
Well... I guess stukov's gonna be low-tier now?
None of what they did to mech will make it more powerful than even the new, absurdly worse bunkers are, and now you cap out at 2/3rds the bunkers you used to, so your late game scaling on maps like trains is going to be garbage.
Is anyone actually playtesting these things?
Tanks are still as broken as they were and now you don't need as many bunkers for AA because liberators look like they'll be disgusting too.
He'll be fine.
Did you ever max out on bunkers?
I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I'm a little disappointed they didn't take the opportunity to change Stukov's liberators to valkyries
As apparently the only non bunker Stukov player, these changes make me very happy overall!
Oof, looks like I was off thinking that they wouldn't nerf bunkers just because it was a very slow strategy in a meta that revolves around speed (thus really only shining in mutations where victory isn't a foregone conclusion)
Wouldn't really mind the bunker nerf in order to readjust Stukov towards what his likely intended playstyle was (utilizing his mech as a force multiplier to supplement an army that's more than the sum of its parts rather than just throwing more bunkers at things) but I don't quite think they went far enough with the mech buffs (and it's arguable that some of his mech actually took a nerf like Banshees losing damage for range)
I suppose this means there's hope Zeratul might be less wacky in the future
Finally, after all of these years i won't loose all of my game worth of gas in 5 clicks.
Even more powerful glass cannons.
I would like to build bunkers and make infantry waves from raxes, but usually i don't have supply for infested terrans. So i don't really like increased supply cost for bunkers.
Stukov mech got nice buffs. Mass diamondback will be viable against everything now. And finally infested liberators got some love too. They were nice damage dealers, but as derpy as SC1 dragoons.
This terrifies me, because if they're willing to nerf bunkers, they're probably willing to nerf Dehaka's mutas as well... no longer looking forward to the Dekaha rework
Even though I hate the bunker nerf - I think this is a good revamp overall. Mass bunker is still perfectly feasible, but throwing in some Brood Queens and/or infested diamondbacks makes for a really effective army. The reworked spawn broodling ability is gonna be crazy good for nuking massive enemies.
It might be if they had an energy maintenance tool.
It's half of their max energy to cast, and you'd need to cast 7 to kill a single hybrid behemoth. It's not gonna be a good ability, it's going to be "what if mind blast was less than half as strong and ascendants couldn't recharge their energy."
The buffs seem pretty pathetic honestly, but hard to tell for now
Bunks... yeah I dunno, 6 supply is ultra/BC levels. I guess civs are free, and supply can be massed quickly, but still, not cool.
Lib change is nice, less overkill and more chained pbomb. Pretty neat. Banshees are eh, still massive overkill, but at higher range. DBack changes are neat, no longer gimped by ENTIRE MAPS that have air hybrids by default regardless of actual enemy comp. Good range, too, and now cost the same as a goliath and a half, with the same 1.5x anti-armored DPS.
Queens sound fun now, you can actually instagib more of the big armored targets that would otherwise blow apart civs and marines, like thors, ultras, BCs, Archons, hybrids, etc. Giving them muta speed is pretty neat, too, so they can not get torn apart instantly when you're trying to do the same to them.
At least mech units are getting cheaper so chip damage isn't as tragic as it used to be. Either way I guess they're pushing for the player to always be using infantry to screen their mech's offensives by not adding easy auto-regen on every unit.
Looks like Rax Infested Marines are now a viable alternative to bunker spam since they now have supply parity.
Also this still doesn't fix Stukov's primary problem of lacking any hard ground units since his swarms are his only tanks and he doesn't have Raynor's DPS. Uprooted bunkers and mechs are pretty squishy and he needs to save calldowns on harder mutations. New Libs seem to make for pretty good aerial tanks though.
Spawn Broodlings ability reworked. Instead of instantly killing a target unit, it will deal 300 damage to a target unit and spawn 2 Broodlings when that unit dies. This ability can now be cast on Massive and Heroic units.
Finally I can use that stupid unit.
Queens already have a very niche role with their fungal growth, it's not terrible vs the swarmy comp. But then again you can always just keep using more infested to take out the enemy.
Fungal growth also works on everything but ultras (I think) so queens were also a decent choice vs the mutually assured destruction mutator (hybrids detonating nukes upon death), with fungals you could keep keeping them in one place.
Changes look pretty fun. I've always enjoyed playing with more mech units and masteries so this looks pretty fun. Having a couple of bunkers will still be nice for defence + free units. But rounding out with some mech stuff will be much better.
Also that infested structure buff seems pretty damn good. 1.5 seconds per point.
*Also something to point out is he still has barracks for popping blobs of disposable infantry out. At least they are worth more compared to bunkers now. Bunkers will take longer to break even on cost as well as cost more supply - so actually getting a couple of barracks for insta army will be really nice.
I am thrilled. I've always loved Diamondback + Banshee comp and now it'll actually be properly viable!