how anyone managed to hit anything past 200 yards in the cold war is beyond me

It was easy. You just ran up to the target and shot it. That's why assault rifles have charging handles.
Yeah but then you have to run. This whole war affair seems rather tiring
Ohhhh!!! Man, I’ve been using mine wrong for years.
Take your damn upvote.
Ahh, that's where you hold it when you charge.
With Hornady ammo I average between 1.5-3 MOA, which whatever. With steel case it opens up considerably but runs like a fucking champion. Replaced the trigger and bolt carrier group with HK parts which makes a big difference.
To be fair I'm sure someone who knows what they're doing could hit a man sized target at 500m, but I do not know what I'm doing
Different ammo might help.
This is anecdotal, but my dad was shooting Federal GMM out of his M1A, and getting frustrated that he couldn't get better than about 5 MOA. With the cost of GMM, I completely understand, lol. Anyway, I told him to try some different ammo, and he ended up buying 10 boxes of different stuff to see if any of it would group better. He ended up shooting slightly sub-moa with some Remington match ammo, and right at 1 moa with some Fiocchi.
Replaced century or PTR trigger/bcg? What difference did it make? Actually asking for a friend.
The average amount of ammo spent to kill a man in Iraq was and is around 200 000-400 000. So i ask you.
2moa is about what I expect out of that vintage of rifles. You are shooting fine. Just need a little more trigger time.
Because anything beyond 200-300 yards (especially with irons) is the realm of harassment fire, crew served weapons, and armored vehicles - or the occasional sniper. Rifles were mostly for close range fighting and infantry supporting armor.
Crew served glock
I think that’s pushed out to 400-500 yards for modern soldiers because of optics. ACOG’s and now LPVO’s are changing things quite a bit.
I definitely agree for the iron sighted ak wielding individual with little to no training, 200-300 yards is definitely the upper limit.
In WWI, soldiers were trained to shoot out to 700 yards with iron sights.
Until recently, the Marine Corps trained all Marines to engage targets to 500 yards with iron sights.
It's a matter of fundamentals rather than optics. Certainly ensuring you've got a rifle where the barrel isn't blown out and you're not shooting super unreliable ammunition helps, but in my opinion, too many people put an emphasis on using scopes/optics when having a good understanding of how to shoot with iron sights automatically improves their shooting with optics.
There was a much
Additionally, shooting with iron sights is like anything: an acquired skill. My first introduction to shooting was in the Army and the training I received was nowhere near as robust as the information in that 12 page document I linked. We didn't spend much time shooting with iron sights, instead shooting our quals with a CompM4 red dot sight, and we didn't spend any time talking about how to acquire a good position.
The training and qualification courses have changed a lot to reflect what the higher-ups think the next threat will look like. If you look at the
Going from web gear to full on plate carriers changed things a bit as well.
I wasnt a great shot, I wasnt infantry but I worked close with them and I always made it a point to go with irons if nothing else to not be dependent on gear to make up for lack of skill
I think they just had more guys further up.
My 2nd thought was the non sarcastic one apparently... As a reloader, I would love the chance to try to dial in a specific load for something like this.
Reloadable brass is very very rare with a roller delayed action, it is not gentle
Inability to reload is why I don’t have a roller-back.
This thing turns straight brass into boomerangs.
Between brass damage and being 3MOA, most people I know just shoot steel case with them.
i was hitting out to 300 with about 4-5 moa ammo
Details on the gat? This an original?
It's a century with hk and ptr parts, the century logo will haunt me. The scope I pulled off some bubbad 1917 Enfield.
Practice in the basic fundamentals of marksmanship.
With loctite
I shot a G3 a while ago next to a RPR and a G28 at 100m. I did worst with the G3, but I think it was mostly because it had only a very basic scope.
The groups were not terrible though. I think a man sized target at 200m is well within the effective range of the G3.
USMC boot camp qualified at 200, 300, and 500, with iron sights.
Yeah, looks like the emphasis on the rifleman course (National Match style bullseye) is
Lol I hit a hog with my iron sight FAL at 120ish and turned to my buddy and literally had to say “I think the only reason I hit that was because I jerked the trigger”
Google shows 44 casualties during the USSR Cold War. So, it appears it was not necessary.
I've shot my garand out to 300 lots of times. And consistently hit an 8" round steel target. Murican weapons.
daamn that pic is sexy tho
I was thinking the same thing the other day!
You measured wind? I try to shoot 3 shots to make my aim and then im ok with everything.
A 12" plate at 200 is a 6moa circle... If you can't shoot better than 6moa with an optic off a bench you need to work on fundimentals.
Loctite. Everyone forgets loctite. I sucked to until and old man at the range pulled my hand into his pants pocket and right next to his penis was some purple loctite. He told me what he was going to do and to just let it happen.
He took apart my optic mount and put a little loctite on every screw. He leveled and tightened with accuracy with his special yellow torque wrench/screw driver thingy. After I wiped the cum from my mouth I was delighted to finally shoot within 2moa for the first time out of my PSA 15. As I turned to thank him he was gone. I recently found him on a YouTube series. I believe he goes by Hickok45
Have you heard of Project Appleseed? It's a rifleman course that also teaches there history of Lexington and Concord. You'll shoot a couple hundred rounds of 22lr over a weekend. For beginners it is an amazing course, for those more experienced it's still very fun practice. I can't recommend the course enough.
I had one of those as well. Once I got it on the range I realized I needed something different. Sad thing is I prepped a bit and have a bag of magazines and spare parts I haven't been able to sell yet.
The triggers in the spanish cemte import are terrible. Even a HK factory trigger is still around 6 pounds. Scope it all you want your still not going to get the accuracy of other platforms. Yeah, mags and parts are cheap and it looks like a G3 but......
My triggers 4 pounds you have to be willing to learn how to fuck with it and know the platforms limitations
That stock seems to have some wear, it wouldn’t happen to be original would it?
You just need a mosin comrade! Hit torso's up to 500yds no sweat.
I have done several triggers on them. With custom springs and parts. Many springs and parts I custom build myself. I like them for what they are a battle rifle.
I tried a Mosin Nagant on 100 yard target and noticed the difference was huge, needed training
Currently have an HK91 from the early 80s. Made the mistake of using my lightly used Aussie surplus FN parade rifle as a partial trade for it. Much better trigger and nicer shooter than the HK IMO. Shot the FN in military shoots out to 500 yards with open sights. Other much better shots could hit that far with open sights, but at that range, with no practice, I was pretty much useless with the FN. I haven't ever tried shooting the HK with it's open sights that far.
Are you saying the gun sucks? I’m curious
You may have better luck aiming down your iron shots instead of a scope.
I’m not lying when I say I have a ptr-91 that keeps Tula inside an inch to 1.5 in. I have no fucking clue why or how but it does
My father and I heard a similar conversation a few years ago at the range. Usually, we just took the long guns, but for whatever reason, we brought the pistols that day. It took two shots to hit the steel with his old Beretta. The guys struggling to hit the steel seemed amazed, but at the time my dad was shooting around 10,000 rounds a year with pistols alone.
I guess the moral of the story is practice :)
Training can do wonders with limited equipment.
I gotta make this in modern warfare. This actually looks badass.
They didn't on purpose.... Spray and pray, buddy
Doable at 500 meters/308.
Volume of fire
Accuracy by volume wasn't something that was part of infantry doctrine, especially your rank and file Rifleman. When you think about the folks in World War II, they were largely shooting .30-06 from M1's in clips of 8 rounds if they were in the Army or the same ammo from clips of 5 and bolt action if they were in the Marines (Marines didn't get the M1 standardized until 1947, they were issued the M1903, by and large.) Even if they had a mad minute, it's no way near the same amount of lead being slung downrange as you could do with 5.56 in a 30 round magazine.
well the cold war wasnt actually a war with battles and shooting. it was a war of anticipation. not a single shot was fired.