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Episode 310 "Protocol Omega" Discussion Thread [Spoilers S3E10]

This is the thread for season 3 finale "Protocol Omega" which premiered on Netflix, along with the rest of season 3, on December 14 2018. There is no need to use spoiler tags in this thread until season 4 begins production. You may also wish to discuss the season as a whole in the

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It seemed like a series finale rather than a season finale. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see how it can continue, especially with the same characters.
At least they gave original Marcy and David a happy-ish ending
Edit: A staff member tweeted that Netflix will use this first week's viewership figures to make a renewal decision. So tell all your friends to watch it ASAP if you want a season 4!
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Why? Traveller 3468 is still alive. Phillip, Carly and Trevor all still die as they did before. The only one that doesn’t still die is Marcy because 001 doesn’t give her brain damage.
It could work well as a series finale, yes. and it's a good thing. if it's not renewed, it's not ending on a cliffhanger.
But if you were just a bit careful when watching...it says ver 2.....BEGIN. at the end. so i'm pretty sure the end hasn't come yet.
'The Future has a secret system, a machine you asked for to keep you safe'... anybody else happy to have chosen this TV show after the end of Person of Interest?
Cast reset, probably. Or we get a The Director had been continuously backing up their memories and would then implant them back into those host bodies to reconstruct an efficient team.
More likely cast reset. Which means at least we get to feel good about civilian Marcy and civilian David meeting.
Lol. You have just found out the point of S3: there's none. Expect that they made it really easy to continue as they can do whatever they want now. New characters, new scenarios, but most importantly new timelines.
If we have gone back to 2001,they would both be in school.
as much as I enjoy the show, lets end on a high note. The idea of a ver. 2 is cool...but I don't want to see a whole new cast.
The thing that makes me think thats not the case is they had Maclauren keep the same body
Honestly I really hope they end it here. So very few shows end on their high note and write themselves into a mess because they want to cash in on the popularity. Loved this season btw, the whole show reads as a fine story, with a fine ending.
my exact thought, that is series finale, or at least they will reboot the show with a completely different cast. no way these characters will be pulled from that type of fairy tale happy ending.
that's what i didn't get. wasn't marcy mental handicapped? but now she seems fine? what changed.
the way it has been recently with netflix and shows being canceled Im kinda worried, also staff members tweeting that netflix will be watching viewership is not reassuring either.
Hope im wrong, i enjoyed the season and im looking forward on what they will do next
Oh no pls Netflix
So they will change characters. Would suck not to see our team anymore but they can do it. Was Grant in the FBI yet in 2001?
Uh sure, if you call dying from a lethal dose of radiation and shooting yourself in the face a happy ending lol
It should have season 4, too many thing left unexplained... (OR they planned to?)
You see, Traveler 3468 should be dead in 911 but he is still alive, and we can see the word "ver2 begin".
And actually, I got many question about the whole series, "Traveler" should be the most complicated TV series in my life.
P.s Honesty, everything (Comic, book, tv, movie) related to time travel or changing timeline, are usually confusing, I need someone to explain everything to me, sometimes I need to watch it over and over to try to understand what's going on, no kidding.
Well, Marcy the host and David have some sorta future together. Marcy the traveler... who knows.
Season 4 could essentially be a reboot. New cast, new problems and no 001.
But I'm guessing they will want to keep the old cast around, like most fans probably. So I'm curious what they will do with season 4 if it gets renewed.
But that happy-ish ending you're talking about should have to be the 2nd Traveler trial in the 4th season if there is any, otherwise the original Marcy was disabled (sorry if don't know the proper term) so that doesn't make sense.
I love that the whole reason shit got worse in "version 1" was because 001 ended up in the wrong body when he was first sent to the 21st. 001 wasn't suppose to be the tech guy in the twin towers, but the stock broker. The director fucked up from the very first traveler, causing the whole thing to collapse on itself before it began. 001 realized the director fucked up and saved himself from 9/11.
And next season he doesn’t exist which drastically changes season four. Which is Ver. 2 of season 1.
The body didn't matter. It was the tech issue that caused a different guy to be there in the first place.
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Why would that matter though? Even if he got into the stockbroker the computer still would have been fucked up and he still would have bounced
Jesus this is some 200 IQ writing
Great season, bingeworthy.
Totally! It's the only show in recent history that I was so excited for the season to be released.
Totally the opposite of what happened last year, where I was oblivious to the fact that the second season had started airing. As a result, I had 6 episodes to binge, then wait 7 days for a new episode to release.
I really really hope enough people watch this to get it renewed. I posted it to
binged the whole series in 4 days
Oprah: You get a reset, you get a reset, you get a reset, THE WHOLE SHOW gets a reset v.2.
If it means we get David and Marcy back, I'm all for it. The other character are great, don't get me wrong but those two are the emotional heart of the show.
Also, I know I should feel bad for Traveler Jeff but I hated original Jeff so much I just couldn't like him (especially after dragging David into the Archives). Then then go ahead and make him 001 anyway lol, poor guy couldn't catch a break.
IS ANYONE ELSE NOT ENTERTAINED?!
God I hope they make a version 2!
Already tired of waiting for season 4 and I only finished s3 an hour ago !!!
I mean, I was pretty entertained.
I wish Marcy didn't do that to herself at the end...I mean she had a gun pointed at him but instead committed suicide.
By the way, I really hope that they didn't write Marcy or David's character off of the show because they were two of the best actors on the entire show. I love them all equally though.
I think she reached the tipping point with all that went down. Besides, the faction wouldn’t stop pursuing her even after what had happened and I guess she just wanted it all to end.
I think the show is done, unless they start a spin-off or make it an anthology series with new characters with Eric’ character mentoring new travelers. I hope there is more though, it’s such a good show.
I read a good theory in one of these threads about this situation.
Essentially, this is why the director refused to save David. An emotionally damaged Marcy had nothing left to live for so the director gave her an honorable "out". If Marcy did not eliminate access to Elis' code and kept living, if it wasn't 001, the rest of Faction would be trying to get their hands on her.
Frankly if there's a s04 anything can happen, the events of the first seasons will matter only peripherally (Mac's memories). They could change many hosts/cast or find reasons to reuse the same bodies, it's all wide open, except for Mac.
Honestly, I thought Traveler 3468 was just going to straight out murder 001 as soon as he started running down the staircase. I guess preventing his arrival also leads to the same result.
If Traveler 3468 had murdered 001, mission could potentially still fail. As the Director had intended for 001 to die there anyways. By Traveler 3468 sending a message to the director, informing him that sending 001 would cause the failure of the entire traveler program. The Director can figure quite a few things out from that.
I was absolutely waiting for Sheriff Mars from Veronica Mars to make an appear and die. Or the dude from Person of Interest, that dude. Enrico. thought he would appears.
Anyone else surprised it was just V1 that failed at the end, and not V400 or something?
That would be a big WTF Moment if not allrdy.
Yeah :D and i felt reminded of
SPOILER for Person of Interest
the dozens of simulations 'the machine' did on
Now that you say that...would've been amazing.
That would have been such a twist!
What is this, Black Mirror? D:
I'm really confused about this season. They spent most of the season de-escalating the tension created by the S2 finale. Then they hurry to a doomsday scenario end of the show finale. It feels like they were told they had a reduced budget and 1 season to finish off the show... so they aborted the plots and did this instead.
Also... the Director is evil, right? That's why it is restarting the timeline, because Maclaren saved it. And it's trying to create a timeline where it exists and is all-powerful. We had Jo accuse the traveler program of ending civilization. Nothing the Director did ever improved things in the future. The conscience of the show, David, said 'we have to fix our own problems.' The non-travelers are always noticing ethical dilemmas that the travelers don't really think about - like setting up the circumstances for someone to die, so they can be taken. Also, we have 2 examples of The Director killing someone - 001's wife and his business partner. Which all the travelers claim is impossible. The evidence seems pretty clear: The travelers are wrong. They've been brainwashed by the AI in the future.
I personally do not believe the Director is being presented as evil. Mostly uncompromising, but not evil. It's attempting things the best way it can. I don't think MacLaren saved the timeline we see per se, and the timeline(s) kept getting hazier and hazier because of all the different deviations. 001 threw a wrench in the machine early on and the Director had to figure out ways to sidestep it. It exists throughout time and space, I think. It's not in one set timeline, but them all.
  The travelers still have a code they should have been following, if they were to follow the Grand Plan to a T. They broke protocol many times, because humans have a sense of morality, which shifted how things happened down the line. In killing 001's wife and business partner, the Director was trying to convince 001 that he should stick to the Grand Plan if he truly wanted it to work. But 001 was completely in it for himself at that point.
  And yeah, the timeline Jo lived in in did end because of the constant failings of this implementation of the Grand Plan. I think the failures will continue to add up until the Director can figure out a meaningful way of fixing the problems that the humans themselves couldn't.
  The Director has actually seemed a lot more empathetic towards humans this season. The team noted that because of their deviations, they haven't been overwritten because in the Directors eyes, they're improving the odds for a better timeline. Along the path that they needed to go. It needs their touch to improve the GP, and to improve him. It cared deeply for Grace as well. They had a bond in the future, and wanted Trevor to give her a hug.
  I dunno though. I hope this isn't the last season and we can see how it can be fleshed out from here.
"Evil" is meaningless. Even in a human sense, an AI can never be "evil." It might be self-preserving, sure. It might not value human life. None of that makes it "evil," though.
I think a basic plot point that could help answer the question of what the finale/season 3 says about the goodness of the director is/will be what Traveler program 2.0 entails.
Like if there was no program 2.0 or the second programs entails like, total population override or something, then that would be one thing. But that doesn't really seem like where the tone or clues in the finale was going to me.
I'm betting program 2.0 involves learning from the precise things identified as mistakes by the audience/david, etc. Could 2.0 mean being honest instead of secretive? The only clue we have so far is that 3468 stops Helios with a warning letter—is this what the ethics of the new program will be: just information and trust? Is that sort of a win for the beliefs of the faction? (maybe the opposite?). Is the problem something totally different more related to like 001 going rogue? Like the human weaknesses of the Travelers themselves? The director being too brutal? I'm not sure especially since I just watched the last season in one big binge. Again, it doesn't seem to be totally hands off, since there is a program 2 definitively initiated? Is the last scene with David and Marcie a clue?
Point is, I think a lot hinges on what we think Version 2.0 represents. Or to put it another way: what is the director judging to be the mistake inherent to version 1 and what is the plan to fix it? -I think watching the finale/season again with this question in mind rather than (as I did) a primary focus on the characters themselves will probably answer this question one way or another.
Another way to frame this is that we're judging the director for its actions in seasons 1-3, understandably, but if we (according to the framing of the show) step back and see all or a lot of those actions as viewed by the Director itself as a failed hypothesis that changes things.
It's an interesting point - we're told that the Director is hardwired against taking people who aren't about to die, but not that it is preventing from setting up those situations. Is the Director subverting its own rules, and if so, what else has it subverted? (Hell, to an AI, it might not even look like a rule - you can't take anyone who isn't about to die, everything else is permitted, therefore this is fine)
I felt the same way about the director being evil. The way I took the season finale, and what I think will ultimately be the series finale because of the ambiguity and possibilities to let the audience do exactly what we are doing now and guess what the ending meant, was that version two started because the timeline was saved. I took it as the director wanted humanity to die, even comparing himself to god in episode 1 (which I thought was an awesome line). The only hole I find in that logic is that it sent the program to ilsa from the future to make it possible for Mac to go back 20 years. I thought this could have possibly been done by the faction in order for him to stop the director once and for all. I also thought that it possibly was transferring itself into ilsa calling for protocol omega so the travelers would stand down while it ruled over humanity hundreds of years earlier than possible without the traveler program. I thought this because, as mentioned in some other comments, nothing the director does has helped the future and possibly only made it worse. It has continued to use the travelers and certainly deceived them in many ways, like actually being able to overwrite and kill anyone at its will. I really hope this isn’t the series finale, although I would be happier with this than the way they almost ended sense 8, but I honestly think it was and to me, the director seemed set to destroy humanity instead of saving it calling for protocol omega after they had doomed themselves only failing because of the blind faith the travelers had in it.
absolutely i felt there was a reduced budget
and i feel this was more of a love story than a scifi show.
i feel they went into time travelers wife mode very hard this season. for no reason.
we did so much world building in season 1 ans 2, and its all gone.
i wonder if this is a series finale.
I guess it all really depends on if you think the Abrahamic God is to be Loved or to be Feared.
There's no reason to suspect the Director is evil, only that it has limitations despite its incredible processing power, particularly when it comes to changing the past. And that's because perfect information about the past is impossible, so is knowing what the consequences will be. We see that when the Director makes a mistake in sending 001 into the wrong body, because it had no way of knowing that a computer tech had stepped into the office at that time.
The better debate is whether the Director is right, whether the Faction is right, or whether Joe is right. The Faction has pursued far more ruthless means to their ends, led by 001, who has acted out of selfish self-preservation for the most part. There's no reason to trust them in making the world better. The problem with 21st century humans is that the historical record shows that they failed to solve or account for the big problems that led to a future where humanity was on the brink of extinction. That leaves' the Director's approach.
Or perhaps nobody is right, and humanity in the future should just accept its fate. Or maybe the Director has the wrong approach, because it's not human and lacks David's perspective. Perhaps just telling 21st century humans and working with them is the better approach. Or not, if powerful 21st century people are like 001.
But at any rate, there is nothing in the entire show where the Director acting in an evil manner. Certainly not more than any humans who've had to make difficult choices about how lives and dies, such as during war time. Churchill wasn't evil and neither was Lincoln, but they had to make choices that cost many lives.
While 'Director is evil' could be a future plotline (it's open to interpretation) I'm glad they went with the far more plausible and less cliche 'This AI can make mistakes'. As far as we know, it tried all along to improve things. But it might have agendas we can't guess yet sure.
I don't believe there has been any direct evidence of malice on the Directors part. It's just a lot more fallible than most in the show realize.
It never setup anyone to die so it could take over their host. That was always only shown to be done on purpose by humans; Carly with Jeff, 001 with Simon on the tracks, etc. Otherwise it was always just a side effect of another change being made. It simply took advantage of the new situation. The Director is not an all knowing Oracle or the show wouldn't even exist; everything would be solved right away!
As pointed several times on here, everything that director does make the future worse.
I’m starting to think that this is what he wants… Maybe Ver1 was not a fail…
What if.. the traveler program is orchestrated or manipulated by an ( rogue?) AI to ensure that humanity goes downhill to assure his preservation in all time lines.
Is the Grand Plan the human salvation or the AI domination?
Hope to see where it goes!!
So, the director didn't save David so that Marcy wouldn't have a reason to live and give her backdoor code to the Faction, right?
Woah...
It's a possible explanation yes. While watching ep9 I was pretty sure the reason would be related to not risking altering Marcy's path somehow, and this makes the most sense.
Hard to say. It was never made explicit, and protocol 3 would mean the default would be to not save him unless it was a move that would contribute to the optimal path.
well.... shit....
Changed my view wow
431 years! They're from 2449! Was kinda thinking they were from way later, like the 29th century.
Man, 431 years later and we still haven't colonized the solar system :(.
Director, you ought to make humanity a multi-planetary species pronto!
That was one helluva ride. Was not expecting it to go where it was going, but damn. I'm just glad they left that ending scene with original Marcy bumping into David.
Unfortunately that suggests that they get together on their own, so if traveler Marcy ever does get sent back, it will just be another imposter situation, with David actually in love with someone else, instead of now where he's genuinely in love with traveler Marcy.
Now that was an interesting scene, because it means David was never Marcy’s social worker. Perhaps that means her consciousness was sent back in time earlier.
The travellers are from 2449 (2018 + 431).
Based on this I'm going to assume 0115 is at least 300 years old.
Real observation everyone else missed out.
Damn, you math real good.
Don't they go back 20 years to 2002? So its more like 2002+20+431 = 2453
God what a season. I really can’t believe this finale guys hahahaha.
So thinking back on the season, we saw Mac staring at the update. Was that ever paid off? What did he learn that he wasn't supposed to know?
I'm thinking that he didn't get anything because he wasn't chemically "coded" to receive the updates. If Carly hadn't interrupted it he would have died, as shown by the same nosebleed that adults get when sent a messenger.
Yes they never picked that thread up again
What I don't get is who was overwriting the world leaders? Was it multiple copies of 001 or?
When 0001 went into the internet he was able to go to the future the long way around and was able to send faction members from the future.
Yeah that doesn't really make a lot of sense. 001 Would know that mass overwriting of world leaders would trigger nuclear war and surely once you have control of the future you can just do it subtly and slowly to take over the present if that's what's important.
i think that was 0001 taking over the world with his people.
David for MVP
David MVP, i can see this as a series finale, or they will use a complete rebooted cast.
I never liked David. And I dont get all teh David love/
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If the series was still being shared between Showcase and Netflix I would guess at cancellation because Netflix is canning a lot of shared production content. Instead, they took it over completely after season 3. As long as viewership numbers are strong this season I think we'll see a season 4, and probably with a lot of the original cast members; Carly, Phillip, Trevor and Grace at least all have the same viability as hosts. And, like the old story about the guy that gets hit by a truck and is rushed to the hospital where his life is saved only to be hit by a bus and killed in the street outside the hospital, Marcy may as well since it was noted that she'll be working in a rough section of town. She would also be a more viable host thanks to the lack of brain damage caused by 001.
This felt like a series finale to me.
Just finished watching a couple of minutes ago. I love all the episodes!
If there's a season four it should be called: Travelers: Version Two.
Travelers 2.0
So what was with the envelope about Helios?
That was a younger woman involved with the corporation that had the nuclear fission device that was stolen by the team in the first episode. MacLaren gave her everything he knew about Helios 685 including the instructions on how to build the antimatter gun that could blow it up and save Earth, as well as how to locate it in the sky years before it was initially found pre-Traveler program.
Holy shit why am I still crying! Those last few episodes are were amazing. However I’m super bummed it feels like either a series finale or a cast reboot. I hope that’s not the case if word spreads about the show.
David was an amazing character - I cant imagine Travelers without him (and Marcy) in it.
Exactly. Even though i should be a manly man, i teared watching Marcy and David for the last couple episodes. That just hit straight in the feelings.
Protocol omega is breaking my head. It’s low-key bothered me since I watched it. To know the director has washed its proverbial hands of this timeline because the grand plan has worked/failed is unsettling. Not sure I can explain it properly
The director is a computer.... to it, the travelers project is nothing more than a simulation or a game of chess.... when it fails, it simply tries again. Protocol Omega exist, to simply let the players know...to stop playing the game, or in the case of season 3...reset the game.
But an interesting thing is that Protocol Omega could have also been a clue for someone to pull out a last resort by using the program sent back in time. The Director handed the keys over to humans to perform whatever fix they thought best, when it had failed.
The way I interpreted it was that this is all a simulation by the director. Nothing actually happened.
I agree. The only reason to show a dead time line is to wash the slate and if we get a season 4. I assume it will be a complete new cast and characters.
We just washed away 3 seasons. Why. Why do that. Series finale?
There shouldn't be another season. The cast was perfect, no replacement.
There should be another season. Don’t say that.
I mean starting a second traveler program doesn’t erase the cast. Traveler 3468 still has memories from version one. Phillip, Trevor and Carly still die and can be overridden. The only characters they lose from the main cast are Marcy and David. Because Marcy doesn’t get brain damage from 001 and David never becomes her social worker.
As much as I agree with you, it will be hard to have Marcy next season in the team...Since Marcy only became a valid host because of 001, who now, will not exist. so Marcy will never get brain damage, never be a "librarian", never get assaulted, and will not be a host candidate at that time.
Well, as far as I can tell, Will and Grace is doing really well, so will probably stick around for awhile. No offense to Netflix, but Eric is making millions from NBC now. Can’t say he won’t continue to do both, but it’s possible he’s done with Travelers.
I agree the cast is incredible, they have amazing chemistry.
Is no one going to talk about the timeline Philip saw with Kat and Grant bathing their baby? One of the saddest moments in my opinion.
Or Marcy coming out of the room with a pregnancy test that she shows David. Damn onion cutting ninjas during that scene
When did 001 jump into Jeff? I called that Jeff was 001 at Ops when someone mentioned 001 and waved her arm as Jeff walked by. He was being too inquisitive.
He jumped after Jeff was taken outside the archive and before Mac & Carly found him bricked up
Jeff wasn't 001, but he was a secret weapon that was able to infiltrate the training groups in the future while still remaining a member of The Faction so that he could complete the mission of spreading 001's conscious all over the internet and lay dormant until the Travelers' future date and could then take over the entire world.
I haven't seen anybody discuss this, but who exactly overwrote the world leaders? Was it the Faction? To what purpose were they doing so? To trigger an obvious nuclear war?
I mean, maybe the Faction is crappier than we thought. They just want to rule the future, not try to fix it.
The faction had the TELL for all world leaders at that exact moment the group was speaking with the FBI - 001 was able to send multiple faction members from the future to take over the timeline and remove control from The Director - and in the factions eyes restore control of the future from the Directors AI.
We see Jeff dead on the bed/chair of the transfer machine when the trailer team shows up. Marcy is dead, David had died just the previous day before this scene happens.
Someone provided 001 and the faction with the knowledge that Aida had received a large download which I'm assuming was the programming for the quantum transfer program. Somewhere in that time the Director sent it knowing it was the last effort to save that timeline. What 001 didn't know at that time is that someone from the existing travelers group would be able to reset it all by preventing 001 from traveling back. 001 or the faction also (imo) thought the travelers would not be able to figure and calculate out a viable TELL to move around as he did so they thought the end game was already done.
There is a ton of smarter people in this thread with other awesome answers to this question.
Hoping season 4 is just as good as the first 3.
He send his consciousness back in time to halt the program... Wouldn't he become the First Traveler?
The future initialised a second version of the program => An alternate timeline?
Technically he would still be Traveler 3468, only sent back 20 years earlier to let the Director know that the Traveler program failed. He prevented 001 from ever being transferred into Vincent Ingram and stopped the Traveler program version 1 from ever starting. If there's a season four, it will pick up pretty much where the beginning of the show started I would imagine and 3468 would be the first traveler to exist in that timeline.
Or... in season 4 the traveler program started before 9/11 and all sorts of hijinks ensue.
I think they keep trying until they realize humanity is self destructive no matter what and nothing will change.
I'm confused about how they could send Maclaren back at all. I thought you could only send someone after the last consciousness was sent? Or is that only true when you want to remain in that particular timeline? So then sending Maclaren back initiated an alternate timeline? Maybe that's what you're asking too...
If this show moves forward, I would love to finally figure out if the Director is good or not.
The Director is definitely good. What makes you think otherwise?
Sure, "good" is subjective, but it's goals are to save humanity, not take life, etc. Yeah, it's shitty to have travelers take over hosts' bodies, gaslight their spouses/family/friends/coworkers, but it's "for the greater good" because otherwise the travelers would be taken by governments and torture them for their information. And the Director tends to not make decisions based on emotions, but that can be a good thing since emotional decisions can be flawed.
Anyone else got strong Black Mirror vibes from this ending? Reminded me so much of Hang the DJ where AI just launches x timelines and sees which ones work out.
Ok maybe I’m thinking of a different show but the ending completely confused me because.... um... correct me if I’m wrong... but wasn’t Marcy mentally ill in season one before getting overwritten and wasn’t it David’s idea to make the Facebook page that said she was a nurse? Maybe I’m wrong but maybe it’s hinting at this being Marcy being sent back earlier in time and setting up the relationship with David early? I’m confused about this.
Edit: just looked it up she was mentally ill but this rewind is before that happens because of 001!
There is no 001 in that timeline, so it never happens, which is why she is still a nurse.
I am conflicted.
I am sorta happy with the ending as a season and as a show. My 2 favourite characters Marcy&David were used for suffering-entertainment, but we get an improved Marcy&David 2.0. We won't have to spend so much time watching Kat slowly dismantling her relationship with McClaren anymore, but McClaren struggles with civilians is what carries the show for me. I wish they made more of Carly's awkward reconciliation with Jeff, at least they did recognise their past histories. This is a good show ender, but I dunno. I desperately want more "present-day sci-fi" which is what Travelers season 4 could deliver. So Travelers can't end, although it should.
Hi -- sorry if this has already been discussed, very very first ever reddit post, but really enjoy this show and wanted to discuss the S3 ending.
Was MacLaren waiting to be "overwritten" after he sent the email, as he was at the same TELL as 001 - waiting for the Director to either send 001 again or knowing that if he wasnt overwritten because his email was successful then he realised he was not going to be, he looked at the window and his watch and knew he had to get out of there?
Just my thoughts on it. what a great show this is.
He couldn't be overwritten because historically Grant Maclaren was never in any of the buildings in 911. There was no TELL for the director.
Also, making TELLs seemed to be very tricky for the Director, in the early days. At first the transfer had a 60% chance of misfire in its early days. Secondly, 001 was actually in the wrong TELL. The director was supposed to overwrite the stock broker and instead, he hit the IT guy.
I thought he had somehow stopped 9/11 and was looking to see if the plane was going to come, which is never did
I read through all these comments and jesus H. christ how do you guys not get it? Mac (Grant) going back in time and not marrying his wife changes EVERYTHING.
I think you are the one not getting it.
3. Marcy doesn't have brain damage because 001 was never sent back to not die and later experiment on her.
5. 9/11 happens, but he has 10 minutes before the plane hits to get out of the building.
A lot of that stuff doesn't matter, and he wouldn't know what to change except for what he already had mission for.
Marcy's story was retconned to have been the result of 001's experiments giving her brain damage, which now doesn't happen. (but, you know what... it'd be hilarious if the writers did that specifically so the season 3 finale could give her a happy ending)
9/11 was still 15 minutes away, and it seems he didn't bother to stick around to die. We have no indication that anything changed the events, which definitely doesn't end the world.
Now we're back on track to continue a timeline where Helios was fixed but other events still happened, and perhaps a Faction still occurred but didn't amount to much without the right leadership.
(1) The kid only was going to become a serial killer in a 2H update because philip had saved the boy. In this new timeline, philip has to save the boy in order for him to become a serial killer. Otherwise Alexander will die in the home he was in.
(3) Marcy doesn't have brain damage because 001 was never sent back in time. He caused her brain damage by forcing her to participate in Simon's research.
(5) He didn't see the planes in the window because he was 10 minutes early to the first plane. This scene is most likely a cliffhanger. "Will he or won't he choose to survive like 001?"
I still agree that Mac's actions will change a lot.
Lol the irony
Some of these connections are plausible others not. For example Marcy only had brain damage after the actions of 001 in season 2. She's fine now simply because 001 never arrives.
If you look at the clock, he hasn't stopped 9/11 yet. It's about 15 minutes to first impact, the highjackers have the planes. At most he has time to mitigate it by partially evacuating 1 tower with a fire alarm.
While Mac's actions did change the path of 1 kid, it takes more than good feelings to change history meaningfully. If we get another season we'll see.
I'm thinking the director is Vincent..........
001 caused that. It was shown in season 2.
It was all a simulation I bet.
Save Game file, like Civilization game.
The ending kinda gives me flashes of Infinity war. Where 001 being Thanos and overwriting the world leaders being the decimation. But behold, the Director saw it coming and the only possible way to fight back was to let him win and call for protocal omega.
Think back when Grace is pleading repeatedly saying that she thought the Director would do something to stop it but he didn’t, letting it happen was the only way, similar to letting Thanos have the infinity stones.
Also when the faction tried to wipe out 2billion people, reminded me of thanos then too
Just thinking....that maybe the whole Travelers/Faction/end of the future world is just a closed time loop(similar to the movie "Final Countdown"? Nothing the Travelers do in the current time seem to have any major effect in the future, except create the Faction, which in turn, seems to be the start of the issues for the future. This is lightly referenced by David in his 'dying dream sequence' to Grant - wouldn't it be better to let us fix our own problems(paraphrasing), and then more directly by Yates to Grant just before she leaves to go watch the sky - accusing Grant and the travelers of being the start of the future problems by coming back to change things in the past(again paraphrasing). Grant certainly seems to think on this for a moment as Yates leaves.
What was 3468 waiting for, at the window, after he sent the email in Anthony Corrigan’s office?
I was wondering the same thing.
He was looking out the window just like 001 did when he first arrived. The plane doesn’t hit for another 10-15 mins, but it looks like 3468 saw something on the far wall and made a decision to leave.
Maybe 3468 was deciding between staying and ending the loop, or leaving like 001 did.
Da plane!
The 9/11 terrorist attack. 001 was originally sent into the dude whose office 3468 was in I think, sending the email from that computer/email address at that time, lent it extra validity.
What was the director downloading into Ilsa?
The quantum leap technology. 001 could only switch bodies.
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I don't think that's possible because Trevor said he was old enough to see his sons die so by that logic his parents would be long gone too. Thoughts?
I thought they were going to send Trevor back right after he made the bargain with the director. It would have made that side story a bit more complete. Erasing the entire events of the whole series seems like such a letdown after being so emotionally invested in the story.
That was the worst timeline damn. So I got kind of confused about the timelines, sure they see multiple timelines of their future, because it changes due to them changing things, but how is there multiple timelines of past? According to Protocol Omega. I thought there was only one past.
Or was this whole thing just simulation?
Traveler program version two? Holy shit, I'm intrigued. I need season 4 right now.
so I definitely expected 001 to also get the temporal aphasia given how much he jumped
The evidence suggests that 001 did not spend a lot of time hopping between bodies because the only reason he volunteered for the project was because he was basically on his death bed from a terminal illness. 0115 is likely older than 001 and lived hundreds of years. Some estimates go anywhere between 200-300 years. Between those years, given people in the future likely have a lower mortality, he could have switched bodies over 5 times. 0115 also mentioned that the only other person to have this disease was his wife. So the disease could have manifested because several reasons, their age, being the among the first body hoppers, and/or just body hopping too many times.
Holy tears when David and Marcy met for the first time.
Gotta say, that ending gave me chills like no show has since Lost.
Damn what a fantastic season end. It makes sense that the directors grand plan would initially fail since there are millions of factors, and he severely fucked up at the get go by creating a dejected 0001 in the first place. Honestly hoping Netflix gives it another season, there is certainly room for more story but Marcy and David would really need to be apart of the new cast (unless they get replaced by someone awesome).
If the team had a 20 year window to pick any point in time to send someone back, then 3468 could've just as easily used his original TELL in the elevator shaft when he first met the team just after he takes over that body (ie the logic from the plane ep). He could've taken 001 out from the very beginning of their journey and carried out their mission without him fucking everything up. They could infinitely repeat this process every time the Director dies.
I see two issues with this.
A full reset might be better. Now 001 won't be messing with the timeline. I'm sure the effects of his actions made things more difficult for the director. Also Mac can perhaps do more good by going back that far. Maybe he can help with other of the early stumbling points of the Traveler program. An early warning to the director about the potential shelter 41 problems (dome collapse or faction founding) could help things go more smoothly. He already potentially prevented two civilization ending events (Helios and the singularity engine) which might free up the program to work on whatever issues arise next.
Ahh thats true because then he would be operating with his original team AND he would have knowledge of events and have Phil with him. So he could have started to really fix things starting from his original TELL. Then we could keep the same cast but have a completely different story :)
Also I have been arguing that some people got it wrong about the faction - 001 didn't create it in the future or the past he simply coordinated the assets after they arrived into his timeline - and then after learning what they are he made some changes in the present so more of them would show up from the future?
"nucular"
- Joanne Yates
Does the original timeline keep going though?
I would love to see a Ver. 2 of the Traveler program where our team comes back, but each takes a different host than we are familiar with in the previous timeline. For instance, 3465 is sent into Trevor's body instead of Carly, making him the Tactician, and so on and so forth. I think this would be fun for both the fans to watch and the actors to play out. Also, perhaps the Director saw the need to include Programmers into all Travelers teams based on the first timeline so that 0027 (Grace) can return and this time and be an actual part of the team. Would love to see maybe Marcy be taken by 0027 instead of 3569 -- that might also be a fun relationship dynamic to watch if Ver. 2 David and Marcy organically got together and then Marcy gets overwritten by someone like 0027.
The traveler is the one with the skills, not the host body. 3465 is the tactician no matter what body she's sent into.
Adding a programmer to the team would be fantastic! I would love to see 0027 be a part of the team from the start.
Marcy (at the end in the bus) would have to historically die to be available as a host for a traveler (unless the rules for the Director change with Mac's knowledge), and I kind of hope that doesn't happen to her, I want Marcy & David to have their happy ending/aid the team as regular people if possible.
Just finished watching Season 3 and browsing through the latest posts here. One thing I'm still wondering about is the hand waving at the end to allow MacLaren to jump back in time before 001. Close jumps in time are not as destabilizing apparently? Just scratching my head on the implication of this last moment change to the Time Travel laws as laid out by the series.
We get no real indication on how much time passes in the future between each traveler arriving in the past. It could be seconds, hours, days, months or years. The director in theory should have been able to self accelerate a lot of things in the future by sending information back 20 years in the past to itself repeatedly. Even with the limited resources of the future, having infinite computing power should have provided solutions for many things. Perhaps this is what they meant that the director exists outside of space time now?
Even the idea of sending everyone back 20 years into their own body would have been an interesting possibility. Not sure if giving everyone in society the knowledge of what their life might be like in the next 20 years would do to a society. Especially one on the brink of collapse.
Why has the director not been using this time travel hack already? It certainly had the ability to do so with the resources traveler teams had in the show. Want to deal with 001? Why not just have someone in the 21st century immediately overwrite him in 2001? He's deemed faction so Protocol 3 doesn't apply.
Anyone have any thoughts to counter this? While I kinda like the idea of a reboot since things went to hell pretty fast at the end of Season 3. Just don't like the path they took to do it as it seems to break all continuity of how time travel was supposed to work.
I can't really believe that an email will flow around on the web for many years and then automatically appear in the Director's just opened account inbox. Other than that, brilliant long term goal achieved for the Director: To build a time machine sooner in time. It turns out that as soon as they do that, they are no longer bound by the rule they keep repeating throughout the series that "you can only travel as far back as the most recent traveler." That's a real game changer. We don't know if the Director in the reboot will be aware of the previous iteration, though. If he is aware of Seasons 1-3, would it mean that in the show, consciousness can be sent back in time because it exists outside of time, and so does AI consciousness?
What the hell was this?
I thought the chances of the show being renewed were pretty good, considering its popularity and probably pretty low budget, but now I'm not sure if I even want it to continue.
How would it even work? An entirely different set of characters, or some sort of reset of the old ones? Neither of these choices sounds good to me.
And don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved this season, it's just the ending I'm having trouble with.
I think it was definitely a "we're not sure if we are getting renewed" move, but also gives them total freedom if there is a new season. I hope they keep all the cast and just make the circumstances different - we have 3468 to experience it with, as he also knows V1 timeline.
That scene on the bus was very confusing to me! Were we supposed to think that it was future Marcy who had come back at a point earlier in the timeline (before becoming one of David’s clients), or original Marcy who somehow didn’t have brain damage?
When Grant goes back and sends the message to not send 001 because things will ultimately fail, the entire timeline is changed. In the new timeline, Marcy is no longer experimented on by 001, never becomes mentally disabled, and her and David end up meeting on the bus.
Maybe they left it vague on purpose. It would be a great way to show the director genuinely cares for people if in version 2.0 the director purposely makes Marcy meet David.
Edit: Wait so they reset the timeline basically?! I really hope there’s a season 4. I’m sad af now that I finished it.
That was a great season, the only downside was the random relationship drama, the directors a bitch for abandoning them after all that, fucking 001 is such a pain in the ass. Fucking hell Marcy too, will there even be a season 4 after all this shit? They killed off nearly half the cast. This is like one of the only shows that I like all of the main cast.
why they gotta do David like that , he was literally the most moral character out of everyone, he legit made me want to become a better person ever since I watched season 1
Exactly for that reason. Other than the main cast, he was the character whose death would have the most emotional impact on most viewers. It was beautifully done and with the timeline reset I'm hopeful we'll get to see more of him, somehow.
you should watch This Is Us, a character on it is like David but on steroids + the show is really good in and of it self as well.
What happens if on of the time lines mess up so badly they can't even create the director? Does that mean all the time lines are just simulations because they wouldn't want to risk this?
So I have not seen anyone talk about the fact that this whole thing might have just been a simulation by the Director :/ and none of it was real.
So 3468 looks out the window same way 001 does and decides to leave before the planes hit. Thus risking becoming 001, rather than just staying, dying, and resetting it all. Probably for Kathryn.
My biggest beef is how unsecured Ilsa was. The Faction easily took that place over. You would think having one of the most powerful AI with a link to the Director would be more secured than nukes.
I would like this show to start again with new actors honestly in a different part of the world who maybe in this new place come in contact with our traveler team because maybe world powers share more communication and info with the powers that be in our time.
I'm not sure if this is the right place but there is a song,which starts playing along and get the volume turned up around 42:00.
If anyone could help me find it I would be super glad.
Thank you.
So that had to be the finale there was too much wrapping up loose ends. And too many bows.
The timeline we saw Mac experiencing would go along with McLarens newly created timeline. We got to see how their lives would be living out protocol 5.
And without the faction standing in the way McLarens knowledge of cause an effect can help the director shape the future and iron out all the kinks. Big ass bows everywhere.
Sad to see it go its only possible way of time travel without breaking the laws of physics. But it was rough around the edges show wise.
Not sure Marcy and David would have a "happy" ending, since she would still having an intellectual disability.
Marcy was only disabled as a result of 001 using her for his consciousness transfer experiments. Being that Grant reset the timeline and wiped out everything, Marcy was never experimented on and dumped in an alley with a scrambled brain.
That's the problem with retcons. They changed her story last season to have been a failed experiment by the hand of 001.