0ddStranger

One Piece: Chapter 970

Chapter 970: "Oden Vs Kaido"

Comments
Oden really missed am opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. To take back the country and to have Mononosuke murdered. Not really, but, if only that had been his mindset. I know those Chad balls have more semen to give baby, admit the failure and move on.
At what point would Oden be able to use Haki to see that it was the old hag and not Momo? I really dislike how the hag has just been so convenient to the plot. How did she touch all those faces?
It would be something if Toki was the traitor. And the reason she sent momonosuke into the future instead of Hiyori was simple because of how powerful Oden was. If in 20 years, Momonosuke could become as strong as Oden it would be a problem. Therefore send him in the future so that he'd be still a weak child as Kaido grew stronger. And that she kept the scabbards from convincing Oden to stay so that he would not learn about Orochi and possibly Kaido.
It would really be something lol Unfortunately it's just too much..like betray your own children? Your own husband? For what...power? We all have seen her character, there's no way around for her to develop this way,giving birth twice an fake her behaviour for that long...very unrealistically!
Quick sidebar y'all.
Next time you read on Mangaplus, try this:
I find it to be a more enjoyable read when I did it this way.
Zoro will fight Kaido with Law + Kid and will win. Luffy will be forced to fight BM and will awaken this arch
I just realized Kanjuro is the traitor!!
You see that all the others it hate dragons, like Kin'emon or momonosuke, but, when they need to goes Zou, Kanjuro did draw a Dragon without problems
how so?
Just wondering... Why did the WB pirates never avenge oden's death? He was their one of their family..
Probably not aware since Wano is closed off? IDK, just an assumption.
The toki we see smiling before oden fights kaido is actually the old hag. I believe the real toki has been captured and the old hag is using her in order to touch momonosuke’s face.
How can then the Old Hag be both at the castle and at the battlefield...it really doesn't make sense your statement. There are infinite ways of her getting to touch momo in order to be able to take his resemblance.
the old hag has alerady done a lot, this would feel kind of overkill
I know it's interesting and entertaining making theories about guessing who the traitor is, and even if there is one, I cannot see any of the red scabbards betraying Oden. They went to battle against Kaido and his army and all of them fought to death, this should be enough. We sometimes tend to look for complex answers while we've got the simple one in front of us but we are just too close to see it. Just think of them as Luffy and his crew: 1 leader/captain and 9 retainers/crewmembers (I don't count my man Jinbe simply because he is not here). Do you really see any strawhat betraying him? Of course not.
"But look at this panel, you can tell the traitor is Ashura Douji because he wears a remarkable different clothes than the others"
"Whereas all look serious, Denjiro looks chilled"
"The traitor is Kiku because when she wears the mask you can't see her reactions"
The character's identity does not make them traitors, it makes them unique. These guys would literally die for Oden.
I agree with you!
Yes yes the greatness of Goda continues hyping up oden to be the only one to slash kaido then when we see the fight it was just a regular slash with nothing special about it with 2 swords not one so why was Enma hyped up who knows 🤣🤣got to love goda hypes things up then when it happens doesn't deliver then he leaves us with mystery and hanging plot threads and they go unanswered 😂😂lovely stuff no wonder why demon slayer is outselling one piece
Can someone pick up this child?
some bois even comparing akainu with oden, y know y'all can't compare akainu with oden, while oden getting a damage from kaido's mace (also kaido almost on his prime), but akainu just get a punch from sick and injured whitebeard, we dont know if prime whitebeard using his bisento on akainu, the result will be different...
Wrong. You can't really compare Whitebeard with Kaido just because of what you know in modern time. Kaido was weaker than Whitebeard and Roger back then. Kaido was even rival with Moria one time. This can tell you how weak he actually was back then. Whitebeard on the other hand was fighting on par against Roger and we all know Roger was literally the strongest pirate to live during his time. So with this being said, Whitebeard was far stronger than Kaido long ago. Kaido only became a Yonkou because of his massive followers and army that he built over time but his strength also grew too. He should be far stronger today than he was back then.
So with all that being said, in comparison with Whitebeard, Akainu, Oden, and Kaido, Akainu should be really strong to be able to take a hit from a weakened Whitebeard. I think Akainu might have been on the same level as Oden if they were alive today but my money is on Oden being stronger.
You guys realize Oden gave the alliance Kaido's weak spot. That 'X' has been descaled. But alas, who know's though? Anything can happen in a pirates world.
Hmmm...a descaled weak spot. Perfect target for a black arrow to bring down Smaug Kaido once and for all.
I need my strawhat fix. I like Oden don't get me wrong, but the couple months worth of flashbacks starting right after the most interesting cliffhanger is killing me.
For someone who knows that there's a shapeshifter in the enemy's army Oden got distracted by fake Momo way too easy imo...
I meannnn, his main goal is protecting his family. He knows they have the Bane Bane no Mi but it probably didn't register fast enough.
Oden living up to his moniker
last but not least,next chapter is the end of kozuki oden past,and were gonna see wtf did kinemon and his friends do after orochi broke those bridges.
Lets be honest everyone expected a stab in the back but 2 Stabs???!!,damn oda you made the homie dirty.
👏oden👏cutting👏kaido👏just👏shows👏us👏how👏strong👏he👏is,srsly stop making stupid theories especially that this happened 23 years ago,but am more interested on why kaido hit oden from the back(remember kaido wants to die) why didn't he fight oden face2face, and could this be related to why he wants to die now?
Well i think that kaido wanting to die is BS beacause he is a devil fruit user just jump in the sea drown and die if you really want to So i think it was just the auther trying to show just how strong this man is not the fact that he wants to die and the other thing is that kaido didnt use hybrid zoan mode which is the strongest form
I havent really kept up too well with one piece But my theory is that kaido likes fighting/wars and in the current day theres less extremely strong opponents? (Besides like blackbeard and shanks etc) So he's bored af, drinks a lot and wants to die for the hell of it
I think Kaido’s dragon form has higher offensive and defensive ceilings, which is probably why he starts fights in that form usually. However, it hinders his speed and ability to react to his opponents, so it’s not good against really fast people like Luffy and Oden.
Did they explain why Oden danced naked?
It wasn't really oden but it was orochi's ally the one who could copy anyone's appearance
i hated this, i 100% dont believe that orochi could change oden that much no matter what was offered. oden just isnt that type of person to obey like that specially not for 5 years straight.
i feel like Oda really dropped the ball on this one and it is a ugly plot hole in my eyes
It's implied that Orochi would give Oden ships if he complied I believe.
Nope... :(
So Kaido didn't say he was much weaker than Oden 5 years ago, only that his forces weren't that strong... And also Oden cutting Kaido doesn't mean he would have won, we have no clue how the fight would have progressed from that point.
23 years ago not 5:%
I think drake told law about traitor and thats why law was pissed in that panel when he was in orochi castle or that chapter.
So to connect dot law should know traitor personally.
And right now i m just interested in two things who is traitor and will big mom betray kaido. Just this two
Damn...That makes sense, good catch my dude!
So, there's actually nothing special about the way Oden cut Kaido? Just raw force? Then why couldn't Garp and Roger scar Kaido back during the God Valley Incident?
There's nothing indicating that Roger or Garp even bothered to fight Kaido at that time because he would get washed anyways.
The main target was Xebec. Take out the head and the group will crumble, and it payed off.
Even the Kaido in this chapter gets washed by Roger or Garp, just compare how Roger overwhelmed Oden with a single attack while Oden nearly chopped Kaido's head off.
huh? you need see a scar to validate a win? that doesn't make sense
Garp may've one-punched him out of commission heh
Dont you know how the retainers said oden and toki died as they escaped in time do you think that they try one last escape attempt in order to kill the old lady and man to make things more strategically advantageous in the future bc oden is fully aware of tokis abilities so might have known they had a chance
I doubt that was possible at that point, it took all of their strength to escape the execution site and on top of that, the Kuri castle was burned down so it was a really desperate situation.
Why cant I read the chapter 970? I dont see on the mangaplus.
(Free to read) Release is on 2 hours 20 min from now, same as always
How do people think Kaido would have lost on the next attack? Oden got a clean hit and Kaido didnt go down, it was just a SCAR. Kaido hit Oden with a club and got KO'ed.
Uh...Kaido clearly fell after that hit and oden was bout to deliver a finishing blow while he was down
I wonder if Big Mom has any scar on her. She's hailed as an Iron balloon, and her children was shocked to see her even bleed. So i highly doubt she's ever been scarred.
just saying this out:bigmom is technically a human giant with hard and thick skin probably because shes a giant her skin has to be thick af and her muscles being stretched even if she was fat,thats probably what make her hard skin a hard skin
but he is Oden. im just wondering
Has the chapter been released yet? The link is showing as 969 still.
You can read it using the imgur link beside the discord word
at 18:00
I've been thinking for a while now that maybe Kaido isn't as strong as we once thought.
Don't get me wrong, his Attack power is most likely nr1 without DF help, but maybe his defence isn't that great. His battle strategy may also be crappy since he's so god damn strong. (I'm prepared to be down voted lmao)
I think you are right, there are not many people able to hurt Kaido or Big Mom, that's why they are Yonko. Similar to what we had before with the logia devil fruit users. Luffy is probably closer than we think to Kaido in terms of pure strength, he just lacks the technique and hopefully the haki training will help with that.
He took Luffy gear 4 organ without a scratch , that is crazy high levels of Defense . It’s not that Kaido is weaker then you thought , it’s that Oden is stronger then you thought. But yeah his strats are probs shit , considering he is always wasted
That was 20 years ago. He probably is much stronger than he was when he fought Oden.
cant oden just break the chains? i mean he is strong right. and even if it is made of sea prism stone, he is not a devil fruit user
Isnt Sea Prism pretty much indestructible even without all the negating devil fruit stuff it has? We have never seen it get damaged
don't you think the enemy don't acknowledge the strength of Oden? obviously, they won't let him out that easily, they're not that dumb, the man almost killed their boss. I don't know how and what though.
I asked the same question and got downvoted to hell. This sub is weird
Who knows, I mean sea prism is a very strong material by itself, plus he was pretty bad injured, I doubt he had the strength at the moment
Traitor after this chapter to me in possible order Kiku the stabbing this chapter the arm looked skinny....and she wears armor so I never know what she really thinking. And so do kinda didnt trust her upfront Shinobu is out and i want to apologize for accusing her especially since she was there and heard orochi confession Kanjuro if he was on dressrosa where he can be turned to you and forgotten from historys so maybe he was left alive to draw koo back.... Kinemon along with other saturdays felt betrayed by oden leaving twice so maybe orochi got to him first Ahura is a manof honor but has been scorned by 20 years
That's my reasoning
I know it was a typo but I laughed my ass off at saturdays 😂😂
I Really Think its shinobu After this chapter
That Comment from kaido about a traitor
Oden didnt know who shinobu is in his little flashback
Very Suspicious
they're all bled for Oden, all of the 10 including Shinobu. Why risk his/her life fighting too?
I don't think it's Kiku, because she had tears in her eyes just by seeing Momonosuke being a happy kid again, I don't think a traitor would have gotten a scene like this.
Another thing is that the anime for a while has been teasing that there was something very wrong with Kiku. And I'm not talking about his gender. What if the team knew and decided to drop some hints?
Momo get kicked by Hiyori is hilarious. See that I thought of another funny bit, the old hag getting Hiyori Drop kick when she transformed into Momo...
Hard not to acknowledge that Kaido was about to take that L against Oden. Sure, he did proceed to take him down with one hit, but in a fight between near equals, one hit can be the deciding factor. Kaido might be stronger now than he was fifteen years in the past which I honestly don't doubt, but it's hard not to say that he was about to lose.
I mean, it kind of makes sense that he would work in the shadows. He didn't want to cross Whitebeard while he was still rising in power. He wanted to make a dynasty for himself, and it was best to keep his enemies at the time limited.
I think you're absolutely correct. Even Kaido himself admitted that he was worried about having to face Oden when he first returned to Wano.
But how though? Blackbeard got face blasted by a quake enhanced punch and he still had strength to get up and then proceeded to shoot WB. Similarly Akainu was able to fight back and blow WB face off when the old man showed up behind him.
I cannot understand how people are saying Oden would have finished off Kaido after the Togen Totsuka. Yes it gave him a scar and he fell down. I just gave you two examples from manga how characters seem to land the final blow on an opponent and said opponent was able to dodge and avoid it so Kaido would have done the same. He didn't and has not even used armament hardening. They were both fighting evenly and whatever everyone keeps saying that he would have finished Kaido and was stronger is just ludicrous.
If we also argue it that the hag interfered by cloning herself into Momo, the fact is Kaido got back up and one shot him. WB sneaked up on Akainu and punched him with a gura fist but even that wasn't able to one shot him. He got hurt really bad but he didn't go lights out similarly to Oden and I would even argue the latter knew and could see where Kaido was so even if "Momo" was being kidnapped, he should have had his eyes on Kaido knowing he had fallen down due to his strike but no he didn't and got one shot so I really can't get how people are interpreting this as Oden being stronger than Kaido.
Oden got axekilladad
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Not possible, the fruit has already been passed on.
So oden fought kaido ,was able to injure him,but still got a serious injury when kaido hit him with his
I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion like before, but I think all signs are pointing to Zoro being the one to fight Kaido. There are wayyyy too many nods to Monsters, and now Zoro has Enma. I honestly think Luffy is going to have to fight BM this arc. She is still a monster, and his new haki power-up will help him damage her.
of course luffy has a chance. otherwise this manga wouldn't have an ending
It looks like Oden might have stood a chance if the old hag hadn't pulled that trick.
Great example--Luffy vs. Katakuri. Luffy was slowly catching up and was never dealt a critical hit. If you open yourself up for just a second, taking a defenseless critical hit can weaken you enough to lose the rest of the fight (Katakuri made it even after... but had he not, they both knew Luffy was going to lose)
Okay so remember how Oda ages people differently based off if they made good/bad choices in life in some SBS drawings? Maybe Shinobu aged poorly because she is the traitor
Or maybe because she felt guilty and ashamed of what happened to Oden, taking on all the blame.
That would be karma at its finest. But mayority of women in real life do age like that so.... I mean there's a lot of middle aged people that get fat in the Manga. Shouldn't be that uncommon
If Shinobu was the traitor , Oden wouldn’t have had to cover for her when Kaido asked if he knew her
How about Kokoro the mermaid?
Oda took her rack away and gave her a gut :/
Who is this one the left that stabs Ashura
nah, I think it was one of the numbers.
The silhouette looks like king's, but the hand has a bracelet, and the only character that was seen wearing some was denjiro, unless I missed someone, I'm not sure if he is the traitor, and I wouldn't know how he could still be the traitor in the present wano, but that could be a clue
Okiku is the traitor stabbing Ashura imo. The silhouette could be king but it could also be Okiku in her mask.
It's King. Queen is also seen as a silhouette.
Honestly I think everyone needs to chill out on the whole Kaido vs Oden thing, even if the fight was fair we dont know who would've won (Probably Kaido but we dont know) Luffy seemed to have an advantage over Dragon Kaido as well before getting one shotted. And honestly if Kaido can just one shot Oden like that, I find it hard to imagine Oden could beat him even if he never got distracted.
Right!! People are jumping the gun here and it's laughable honestly. I feel like many fans don't like Kaido (duuh obviously guy is evil AF) but mostly cause they don't want and hate Kaido being depicted as the strongest in the series (more than their favorites WB, Roger, Shanks etc) so any opportunity especially now in Wano to see him take any L is crazy. Oden got one shot like luffy. Akainu was able to still get back up even after WB sneaked up on him and gura punched the fuck out of him so if Oden was stronger than Kaido he should have been able to get up but didn't and simply it's cause Kaido is that fucking strong. I personally can't wait to see him getting kicked cause he's terrorized the people of Wano for far too long.
I see that people are getting disappointed of Kaido nearly getting his ass handed to him by Oden which condradicts the narrator's introduction of Kaido, but we are also overlooking that after all it was a "Rumor".
Why do I say so? The narrator clearly said that people say if its 1v1, always bet on Kaido, now I have following arguments -:
So I don't think there is anything to be dissappointed on.
I've seen more people butt licked Kaido and denying that Oden almost killed him disregarding the fact that this is not even his Prime, he's still a young buck. Fanboyism is a scary thing.
Did Kaido get his ass really handed to him? We already knew Oden was gonna give him his scar. We know Oden is strong AF as he was able to tango with Roger and WB. The chapter ends with Oden getting ONE SHOT by the raimei hakke. Despite the old hag changing into Momo and distracting Oden. His mental vibe must have been thrown off duuh but still Kaido was right there in front of him. Even if he's threatened not to make a move, Kaido is there transforming back to human form and he's not paying attention enough to dodge???
He turns and again he gets one shot. If this was WB or Akainu I'm pretty sure they wouldn't get one shot and would still get back up. Heck even BB is able to gura punches to the face and not get one shot. There's nothing in this chapter to suggest Oden was stronger than Kaido and people are just reaching cause they don't like Kaido and want Oden to win. That's why the "if its one on one bet on Kaido iS juSt wHaT pEopLe say aNd is a RuMor" comes about cause somehow in the fanbase people dislike Kaido being potrayed the strongest character in this series and yes I believe stronger than WB and Roger so any chance to twist that narrative is welcome with an unmatched hunger. The spoilers were choke full of wankers saying Oden was stronger as a result of this. This fight was even and Oden and scabbards showed their might but it still wasn't enough. If it were we wouldn't be here with future Pirate King wanting to take him down. Kaido has a huge weakness which is his alcoholism, temperament, arrogance, overconfidence and he's a one man show. That's why he's gonna be beaten by the power of people uniting to take him down.
Whitebeard can literally destroy the world. He don't want to hurt his allies.
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The old hag transformed into momo. She has to touch him and the traitor helped her?
she literally has touched the King of the country and you wondered how she is able to touch Momo.
I was thinking the same. How come she can turn into momo? It could be the key to the traitor thing. It's weird that Oden's wife didn't see some creep around momo, because she was constantly with the kids.
Momo had been in Wano for years by that point, the Old Hag probably had plenty of opportunity to probably pick up all of Oden's family and crew.
I saw a lot of people complaining that Oda made Kaido weak now and that he shouldn't had suffered that much damage. We need to keep in mind that this was 20 years ago, he was strong but probably not as strong as he is nowdays, also, don't forget that Oden was also super strong, so it's not a surprise if he managed to hold his own against Kaido.
people are just that dumb, even Sengoku pointed that this Kaido is far from his prime. Fanbase is too big. It's just common sense that Oden would be as strong if not stronger with willpower than BM or Kaido at this point of the story.
But how was Kaido shown weak LMAO?? He still one shot the fuck outta Oden. Kaido said had Oden united with Hyo and the other samurai that it would have been an excrutiating battle for him since he had lost some men. He was just acknowledging Oden being a strong idiot. So far as we know Kaido may still have been able to beat him like he just did in this chapter.
Isn't it odd how we never really saw oden cause as much damage as zoro did with a casual swing of Enma other than the mountain pig incident?
Exactly, we knew Kaido got his scar from Oden for ages now , it’s not that big a surprise Oden is around his level
Oden is a BEAST!! To think if he didn’t take 5 years and teamed up with Grandpa Hyou, he could have taken the W.
I see everyone is turning on Kaido and as a Shanks fan it warms my heart to see. I’m glad I can shut down this “if it’s 1v1 always bet on Kaido” bs now. As for the ppl using the “it happened 20 years ago” argument, stahp. We have no indication whether this was Kaido at his peak or that he’s gotten stronger since then.
I actually think that Kaido's not that strong really. Maybe he's the weakest among the Rocks' top fighters. Maybe it's just that the world government gives an impression that he's so powerful because they need him as a yonko to balance everything out.
If Kaido can be damaged by someone strong then they should have gotten Akainu/Garp/Sengoku to just execute him one of like the 10 times they caught him
Kaido and also Big Mom are tough as fuck because of their Haki. But they werent as strong yet 20 years ago while Oden certainly was in his prime and simply had Haki on an equal level plus two outstanding swords to channel it into. He was Whitebeards second commander. It would have been ridiculous if he wasnt able to injure a much younger and weaker Kaido back then.
That's not how executions work there are laws as to who can do it
Yeah this chapter has made many things not make any sense. I was hoping Oden scratching Kaido would have to do with a weakness he discovered but no it was just a normal strong slash based attack which imo isn't great.
I think people missunderstand Kaido as a character. He isnt invincible or unbeatable. But seems like whatever his foes tired he never dies. This likely isnt thebfirst time Kaido got wounded.
They only execute via blades or hanging or whatever legal mean
Hmm I wonder how Mihawk stacks up against Oden, they must be close which puts Mihawk at around Yonkou or just below Yonkou level
Mihawk is the strongest swordsman on the planet. He is zoros dream opponent. This guy is OD
Sonnō jōi !! Remember that phrase guys, it is a reference to Wano Kuni !!
Just googled it - looks pretty interesting. Could you explain the connection?
Kanji to has been shady these past arcs.
Is it just me or are the chapters getting progressively shorter?
Oda made Kaido so overrated now. Never thought he's weak like this. This goes to show that being an emperor in One Piece doesn't equate to being powerful. Influencial, yes. Maybe the world government is just treating him as such but they really don't know that he's not that strong. And maybe hiding in Wano for a long time weakened him. Now I understand why Shanks easily made it past him going to Marineford.
How is he weak? a) he got wounded once theb 1shot a character on the level of WB captains. Characters get wounded all the time. Akainu got frontal hit by WB and sliced a dozen times by the captains and kept getting up. BB literally never won a big fight without getting wounded. b) we know that kaido isn't undefeated or invincible. It just seems that way to someone on luffys level. In fact we know kaido got captured and beaten down a lot. What makes him special is rather that noone seems to be able to kill him despite that.
The title of yonko has never been about individual strength. To be a yonko you have to be strong enough to deadlock with any other force on the planet. That's it. Kaido has been captured multiple times. He is not invincible, and I would consider him a tactician either
There are only a handful of Marines that can draw blood from kaido. Outside of those few marines, I'd go on a limb and say the other people who can draw blood are Luffy, Zoro, Shanks, Mihawk, big mom, Blackbeard and 3 others. That's less than 20 characters total who can make him bleed.
Kaido went from a myth to a mortal and hes still top 10.
Shinobu can get it
I understand all that but why the fuck would kaido let her go?
Oden, after he got captured, tried to make it seem like she was after his life all along.
lol right either way she fought with oden so she should be considered a traitor. This chapter just has so many weak points.
He thought she was one of Orochis bootlickers. And frankly he barely cares about small fries.
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...you might be the last person to have got it.
if we assume that the spy (or traitor) is one of the scabbards , lets analyse that shall we : 1- kinemon : the first scabbard to appear in the story since punk hazard , and the first follower and admirer of oden (with denjiro) , his possibility of being a traitor is very small for multiple reasons. 2- denjiro : the second follower to oden after kinemon , and the last scabbard to appeard in the story , and with the least screentime of any scabbard . he's absent in the present which makes his possibility of being a traitor very slim (it wont affect us plot wise and emotiona wise since we dont know nothing of him yet). 3- kawamatsu : protected hiyori after oden's execution , and been prisoned for 13 years so he's not the traitor for sure. 4- ashura douji : it would be shocking if he was the spy , really .. i dont see any reason why he should be one. 5- neko and inu : the shit they went through for raizo should only remove them from suspicion. 6- raizo : since jack went to zou to search for him , means that the traitor is who told jack about raizo , so that removes him from suspicion. 7- kanjuro : honestly we dont know that much about kanjuro even though hes with us since dressrosa , and he's too pointless to be a spy .. 8: kiku : the top candidate to be a spy , oda vaguely covers her face in the last chapter , and while the rest got serious injuries she got none , and when the scabbards found that the ships were fucked she was wearing a mask so we couldn't see her face , even in the flashback when toki sent them to the future kiku's face is not shown . so .. other possible candidates from theories i read : toki , hiyori , shinobu , tenguyama ..
I know Kiku is the top suspect but....I feel like there wouldn’t some emotional impact with her. It wouldn’t necessarily feel like a betrayal, just a kinda “oh, that’s what your role is ok”.
(I know it’s far fetched but I still like the Carrot is the traitor idea because Law’s anger seems to indicate the traitor is someone they know)
Kanjuro is my suspect.
Though recently I'm leaning towards Kiku being the traitor since due to Oden's "selfish" action of leaving Wano, Kiku lost his only brother in the process.
However, why did Jack know that Raizo specifically is in Zou? The beast pirates may know that the scabbards would be in Zou because that is Kinemon's game plan before leaving wano (to recruit dog and cat and minks). Thus Kiku would know that kinemon's company would be going to zou. However as I have said, Jack specifically was looking for raizo, and Kiku should not know the subsequent events after Kinemon left wano.
Another possibility is Raizo is the traitor. He is just pretending back in zou, but in reality, he was the one who told Jack and co, to attack zou. However, Raizo's action in wano - helping luffy and kawamatsu escape, does not make sense to accuse him of being the traitor.
Thus we would go back again to kanjuro being the traitor. Since we cannot eliminate him in the accusation process. The rest of the scabbards may be eliminated already. Kinemon - he brought Luffy and Law to wano ehich would not make sense to bring forces that can possibly defeat kaido Ashura - He's in wano all the time and he should not know the 'Raizo is in zou' information Kawamatsu - in jail for 13 years, duh. Cat and Dog - the beast pirates cutoff their limbs and would not make sense that they are allies with beast pirates. Denjiro - not much info known about him. But if he's in wano all the time, then he should not know also that raizo is in zou.
Just out of curiosity, why would Kanjuro be so much more irrelevant/pointless of a figure than Kiku? You mentioned screentime and emotional attachment at some of the earlier points, I am quite sure Kanjuro has appeared at considerably far more screens than Kiku. Kanjuro also already has been with us all the way since Dressrosa and had been introduced back at the time when Jack got into Zou and we first started talking about the traitor, while Kiku only got introduced in Wano after the betrayal of Zou already having taken place.
Don't get me wrong, I also think Kiku is a a very suitable candidae (IMO I am also between those 2), but for all the reasons mentioned I don't think that Kanjuro is too pointless to be a traitor, I think the emotional relation the reader has to him is even higher than to Kiku, be it alone by the sheer presence (someoen could make the count, but I wouldn't be suprised if he appears in about 4x more chapters so far by virtue of already having been introduced back in Dressrosa)
It's Kanjuro.
Kaidou/Jack were tipped off about the location of Zou and that Raizo was on it. The only people would be privileged to that information would be Momo, Kanjuro, Raizo, Kinemon, and the Minks.
The traitor also told Orochi that Hiyori is alive and in Ringo - from what we know, only a few characters were aware of this - Kawamatsu, Inuarashi, Kinemon, Raizo, Kiku, Momo, Tenguyama, Kanjuro, and a few straw hats.
Only Kinemon, Momo, Raizo, Inu, and Kanjuro would have been privy to the information from both leaks, and only Kanjuro fits.
Inu and Raizo would have just told Jack Raizo's specific location on Zou.
Kin'emon never would have been able to contact Kaido, since he was with Momo and the straw hats the whole time.
Momo is the ultimate target of Kaido and Orochi's forces, as the rightful heir to the shogunate.
Kanjuro was alone on Dressrosa, under the imprisonment of Kaido's supplier, Doflamingo, for several weeks.
We already saw that Kaido was willing to send one of his top commanders and a large fleet to Zou to capture a scabbard (Raizo). Why wouldn't they pick up Kanjuro from Dressrosa? Because he was already working for them.
I guess Bepo and Law are also candidates, but they were screwing up Caesar and Doflamingo's operations tied to Kaido, so it wouldn't make sense.
Everything is just flashes of the past. There's no fluidity.. very unlike Oda. But then again, this whole arc has been unlike Oda. Way more cutaways than normal and really fast pacing at times (especially during this flashback). It's unfortunate because I feel like my favorite series of all time is sprinting towards the finish line and I'm helpless to stop it. For some reason Oda is set on ending the series in 5 years to the point where the series is suffering. If you think this pacing is normal or "Oda-like" you're not being honest with yourself. There's been a drastic change this arc and it's very noticeable.
Edit: Typical subreddit circle jerk where you get downvoted into oblivion for being critical (not even negative) of Oda. Instead of responding to showcase your counterpoints (which none of you have) you anonymously downvote because I besmirched "Goda."
I has significantly sped up (Oda said that he was gonna increase the pace), but here it really does not bother me one bit because this flashback is fucking trash. Can't wait to get back to the real story.
yup. its sad you cant even have an opinion on here
i agree
I feel the One Piece anime is going to supplement the holes in the manga. Because, so far both in my opinion have been top tier.
I agree
Anyone else wanting zoro vs kaido?
Zoro = oden if luffy = roger?
Zoro and the Scabbards against Kaido
Would be kind of funny if Luffy was all "I'll beat Big Mom, can you do that sidekick Kaido while I'm busy?".
It would be really awesome if Kinemon gives the other sword to Zoro and it turns out both swords are infused with Oden's haki so Zoro will get to meet the legendary swordsman Oden. With both swords Zoro will slash the crap out of Kaido while Luffy duels Big Mom. I think this ark is the one where both Kaido and Big Mom get beat by the Straw Hats. It would definitely accelerate the plot since Oda has to take a lot of frequent breaks to continue the series.
Two Yonko down at once will open us up for Shank's arc, then the fight with Black Beard and then Dragon and the World Government in probably the world war arc.
Since he got the sword, yeah I REAAAAALLY want that, also he needs a powerup and reward-up (?) since Sanji got one last arc.
I'm really liking Shinobu after this chapter, although it makes me wish she had had a little bit more development earlier.
And a little less aging later.
This chapter:
Maybe Kaido developed his suicidal tendencies from the shame he felt not fighting Oden 1v1 and why he also hes looking for another worthy opponent.
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One thing I noticed is that the 9 samurai's who worked under Oden knew there was a traitor amongst themselves, so there is a very high chance that all the plans of their attacks on Kaido in the present were not shared with all 9 members but only the core. I wouldn't be surprised if Kinemon and co. have a surprise attack prepared that the traitor wasn't informed about.
What? Where was it indicated or hinted that any of the 9RS knew there is a traitor amongst them?
Who’s the traitor
All I wanna know is who the hell is the spy!? Back in the days there was already a spy and even today there is one. Could be Shinobu?!
I knew Kaido was a bully but I never knew he would drop that low to get rid of Oden. I thought sheer strength overpowered Oden cos Kaido was on a whole different level but in a 1vs1 Kaido got raped by Oden in the past lol. That reduces so much credit on Kaido. That drunk bastard was using dirty tricks against Oden pfft.
I love how cruel Oda always makes the scenes. Like that dirty clone clone fruit was used to its maximum potential to capture Oden in the end, just like how his father was poisoned. Has it been confirmed whether that clone clone fruit user is still alive in the present? I really hate his potential as a fruit user but would like to see more of him hah.
She's dead. I think she transformed into oden that burned alive to death in the boiling pot. So the public and most people believe oden is dead. Explains why oda hasn't mentioned anywhere how she died yet, and she's confirmed dead cuz Mr 2 has her fruit ability. Oden survived open sea holding onto a rope for 3 days on whitebeard's ship, so his endurance is insanely high and I'm not sure if he can even be boiled alive lol. kaido is known to be unkillable and his hobby is trying to suicide. Oden could have 1v1 owned him, if he wasn't tricked. Definitely seemed killable. So if kaido is imba, why can't oden be? Haha
Kaido needs oden to translate the graphs, and he's the type to break strong spirits instead of killing them off. So I have a feeling oden is still alive somewhere locked up.
The clone fruit user is dead, considering that the current user of the Mane Mane (clone clone) fruit is now Bon Clay (Mr. 2).
Can't be alive because Bon Clay has the fruit
the fruit was eaten by mr 2 Bonclay!
Why people are calling kaido bitch for attacking distracted oden.
Nobody called shanks and his crew bitch when they killled that bandit.
Nobody called whitebeard bitch when he attaced akainu from behind.
Nobody called kizaru and aokiji bitch for attacking distracted marco and jozu.
Nobody called luffy and law bitchs when they fough 2 vs 1 against doflamingo.
Nobody called Nekomamushi and Inurashi bitchs when they fought jack continuously while taking breaks, but calls jack bitch for using a gas weapon.
Luffy and co tried to assassinate big mom using poison weapons. When others try to do the same they are bitchs.
That was the wildest scene in one piece to this day
"Fair? You're not dealing with saints here" - Ben Beckman, chapter 1
Yeah I feel like they forget that this manga is about pirates. Even Luffy said in the fight against Katakuri that anything goes in a fight between pirates.
I feels ya bro but alot of people said Kizaru only put marco down because he got cuffed and same with Jozu and my boi Kuzan.
Idk. I would not say Kaido's a bitch, but that whole him being " unbeatable one on one" doctrine about him which I had so much faith in practically got squashed. Now I finally believe Luffy can solo him.
Hhmm almost like people like protagonistic characters and hate antagonistic characters... nah.
Kaido a bitch
loli shinobu is so cute!
kanjuro is not the traiter.
if kanjuro was the traiter, kaido would have known about the road poneglyph on Zou.
He also would have just given Momo to Doflamingo in Dressrosa, and that didn’t happen.
Im starting to want this arc to be over just so we can stop debating if / who a traitor is - it’s getting ridiculous
So the scabbards could potentially know there is a mole with in their group 20 years ago, and since their plans keep on being found out in the current time probably makes them positive the mole is still around. That could mean that the plan to raid onigashima in the present was always a rouse to trick orochi and the mole into thinking they won again. Like kinemon said, this is the only chance they had to beat kaido/orochi, so seeing how their raid on onigashima was leaked 20 years ago probably made kinemon have a back up plan so it doesn't happen again.
In addition it means the mane mane fruit requires the user had touched Momo. This means they might have pretended to be the traitor at some point.
What started as a promising arc turns to disappointment. So many plot holes firstly oden couldn't cut a barrier but was able to cut kaido? Why did he even wait for 5 years? He could have just attacked anyway. And others would have joined. About nobody getting hurt. I guess they were already in bad condition when oden thoughtlessly left. This arc has odens strength jumbled up for me. Disappointing so far. Especially kaido using a kid to safe himself. Such a convinent plot hole. This wasn't expected from at least oda. If only kaido would have defeated him fairly it would have made sense for his strength.
Edit: a lot of fangirls of oda and oden can't seem realise this that oden wasted 5 years dancing..to put that in perspective Luffy took 4 years to travel from his town to wano kuni. Imagine how much rusted his skills were. When he couldn't cut the barrier after conquering grandline. He almost kills kaido five years later.
Kaido winning this fight. It's pretty much like scrappy fairytale. I guess odens son was that old lady with clone clone fruit.
The Barrier is indestructible. Not even Roger would be able to break it with a physical attack. That's the whole point of that DF.
Just like Buggy can't be cut, even by the strongest swordsman in the world, because his body splits into segments.
Devil Fruit powers seem overpowered sometimes, but there are always weaknesses to them. If the barrier is air tight, the user will have to drop it at some point. The barrier is also probably not heat resistent so somebody with a fire or ice DF could kill him without even breaking the barrier. The barrier would also be useless against space manipulation DF's like the Ope Ope and Door Door fruit.
Maybe the barrier is more resistant than Kaido, why is that a plot hole?
He waited 5 years to attack because they made an agreement that kaido and Co wouldn't hurt wano citizens and his men he cares about at the only cost of making himself a fool. However when kaido felt strong enough and gathered enough men, he went back on his word and attacked, which made oden pissed off.
This comment is so bad it HAS to be satire
How are those plot holes? A plot hole isn't just a plot point you disliked.
oden is a beast quit hating
If anything this Chapter Reiterates Pirates don't play fair;
If This Is Luffys Parallel Of Blackbeards Marineford/Yonko Comeup
Then I'm Slimey Sure Luffys gonna Have to resort to a "trick" of sorts to pull off a W
probably with Tama
No shit pirates don't play fair.
Luffy and law tag teamed Doflamingo, and Luffy fought him when Doffy's internal organs were all lacerated to hell, being held together by sutures.
Luffy and Bege tried to assassinate Big Mom with poison.
Luffy took Brule hostage, while Big Mom took Sanji hostage.
Etc.
theyre going to tame Big Mom again and have her clash with Kaido heheee
Well if they don't pull off trick or get lucky again with another power player intervening they will run straight into a meatgrinder... So Luffy better learn fast xD
Before this chapter, Kaido being a Dragon seemed so surreal.
Him being defeated seemed impossible, but this has shown us how easily Oda can have him hurt.
Not bad, but now I’m more convinced he’ll be defeated by Luffy (with help)
This dude is 3000 feet of body. This is anime people. Swords cut everything
Kaido is more tactical then I had imagined, on the other hand the idea that he needed to be tactical for survival/success makes me think he's much much more beatable than before... Still top tier Yonkou but not impossibly strong
Dumb thought
>Orochi attempts to attack Momonosuke from behind
Fingers crossed and says: Yo bitch. Notices Luffy Lufffyyyy sennnpaaaiiii
Lol Oden almost ended the Wano arc if it wasn't for that hostage scene.
But seriously Kaido's human form is better for 1v1. Luffy also destroyed his Dragon form.