Semiroundpizza8

Doom in the Tomb Standard Theorycrafting || Monday, October 07, 2019

The 23 wild cards rotating back into standard this week are bound to shake up the meta. This is a place where we can discuss how decks might change, as well as which new decks may potentially pop up.

Comments
Zoo will be strong for a few days as everyone runs greedy decks, then it will drop to tier 3.
As is tradition
What should be dropped from the current lists for IGB?
I'll be there to ride that wave my dudes
And because zoo good miracle/tempo rogue good but will stay good
The Wild cards look fun, but I'm worried they will result in a lot of slow decks that just stall until an inevitable win condition, whether that's a new Tharusian-enabled OTK or multiple board-fills with a duped N'Zoth. And with cards like Sylvanas, which can be rezzed/duped multiple times, stalling gets even easier.
Welcome to wild
This is partially what I’m worried about too. I feel like the N’zoth + Taunts package is going to end up enabling a ton of decks who’s only gameplan in multiple classes is “Kill the board until N’Zoth” which is going to end up polarizing the meta. Luckily, between Plague of Wrath, Warpath, Earthquake, Shrink Ray, and possibly some others I’m forgetting, we do have answers to a board full of Kartut Defenders. Hopefully that’s enough to diversify the meta
I really want to try out a new kun/thaurisan malygos Druid deck, as I already have quest Druid. I hope it can be a contender in this new meta. I will also throw the new warrior card in Aggro warrior if I want to try my luck with Aggro.
I don't think you know what 'greedy' means, but that seems about right.
IMO cards like sylvanas are too slow for this meta. Even the "slow" decks like druid have the capability to fill the board with high quality minions consistently.
I’m not sure these N’zoth decks are going to be as strong as people are expecting. There’s really not an overwhelming about of effective difference between N’zoth decks and Quest Priest. Quest Priest stalls with strong deathrattle taunts and then brings them back. It also has an actual win condition with the quest hero power, yet it’s tier-3 at best. You’re also twice as likely to draw Mass Res as you are to draw N’zoth.
N’zoth will go into some decks where it makes sense, but I certainly don’t think it’s going to be an oppressive meta warper.
I’m also not too worried about Emperor enabling too many OTK decks, since Blizzard has spent the last two expansions making combo hate cards.
Galvanizer, and tharassian, and mecha'thun decks...
Its very very possible now.
What’s midrange?
I feel like this has already been the case for quite a while. I can't think of a true "Midrange" deck that's been good in ages, but maybe I'm forgetting something or we're defining Midrange differently. Basically everything has been Aggro vs Combo for a long time, with Control Warrior being the only viable true control deck, and that's only because of how absurdly broken Dr Boom was/is.
Eh, whatever... It will only last a few weeks, just take it as an excuse to try out new things. Realistically, it will only suck for the pro-player involved in any tournament during this period. Everybody else get to have some fun with wild cards in standard.
Hunter 6/9 for 6 should be good against nzoth and I guess maly if u can kill it
You're describing my favourite type of meta.
Renounce dankness casino lock here I come (mostly for shits and gigs, def not a serious ladder deck).
Combine it with quest! Renounce won't take it away. Use plot twists to find your renounce.
What goes in there, in your opinion?
Kun will be interesting for Druid. Essentially a free 10 drop with 10 armor to boot. May replace the + armor draw a card thing. You also have the "floop" potential with it. Use 6 mana -- floop -- refresh 10 for a 16 mana turn.
TBH, Ferocious Howl is mostly played for the "draw" part
Is star aligner still in standard?
I'll be interested to see if Jambre's Overload Mutate Shaman will take on a more Evolve-centered approach. Desert Hare is awful, but 3 4-mana minions for 4 mana is nice swing.
That would be a more tempting deck to play it than in Quest Shaman.
I think the overload/mutate deck that VS is theory-crafting is the way to go. On turn 4, Hare+Mogu+Evolve (and eventually a mutate if you are not happy with a result) generates a board that no class can contest at that point in game.
Similar to an early Mogu + Mutate it's a 2-card combo that will pretty much auto-win a ton of games. I think having another potential highroll added to the deck can only be a good thing.
Also the 3 bodies in one card isn't bad either.
Tempo Mage is the definite winner of the Mage additions, but goddamn do both Babbling Book and Flamewanker fit in well with Kibler's Quest Mage.
Omg, I just opened the mage quest over the weekend. That's an excellent point. It'll prob be more effective in the more tempo version sans quest, but good lord I'm thinking some of the turns I've seen Kibler do with that deck being just gross with flamewanker.
Whoa that's true. I got upset by getting the mage quest in the pre-order reward for Tombs of Terror., but maybe now I'll put it to good use.
I think Amalgam Shaman (Murloc-Totem, probably, but there are other options) will be a sleeper OP deck similar to how Combo Priest was at the beginning of the expansion. IMO, people instinctively believe that Totem decks just can't be good because they never have been before, kinda like how Murlocs were before Murloc Paladin took off back in the day. The idea of the deck is that you play the good Murlocs (Murmy, Slurper, Tidecaller, Toxfin, Angler, Warleader) , the good Totems (EVIL and Flametongue), and round the deck out with Nightmare Amalgam and Hench-Clan Hag for additional tribal bodies as well as Evolve, Mogu Fleshshaper, and Thing from Below because OP cards are OP. The combination of real Totems and Amalgams also lets you play Splitting Axe and Totemic Surge, which are both utterly busted in terms of raw power and only constrained by the previous lack of totem support.
The big upside of this deck for me are the number of distinct busted openers you can pull off just because of the situational power level of many of the cards. EVIL Totem, Underbelly Angler, and Splitting Axe can all take over games by themselves, and you get to play essentially free fatties in Thing from Below and Mogu Fleshshaper, which both combo well with Evolve. Additionally, at least early on, many other decks will be trying to take advantage of the slow, lategame payoffs of N'Zoth, Sylvanas, Ragnaros, and Thaurissan, and a synergistic aggro deck like this can just run away with the game before any of those decks can execute their gameplan.
Why didn't this deck see play before? It didn't get to play zero mana 5/5 taunts, and Evolve is a huge upgrade over Mutate.
Full decklist
I feel like an overload package might be better than most of the murlocs. Specifically, some way of incorporating Spirit of the Frog so that you have card draw. Vessina does a good Warleader impression.
I think the problem with any type of totem shaman right now is that basically all of the cards are individually very bad, and there isn't a critical mass of totems & support to make them consistent enough to be good.
HUGE improvement: -1 Totemic Surge, +1 Hagatha, the Witch. Your deck is almost all minions anyway, and you have a couple minions that make more minions in EVIL Totem and Underbelly Angler. I'm around 8-4 with the deck, and the losses were kind of absurd cases too (e.g. me playing a Tidecaller turn 1, then my opponent going turn 1 Coin -> Sorceror's Apprentice -> Ray of Frost -> Ray of Frost -> Mirror Image -> Elemental Evocation -> Mana Cyclone... no aggro deck's gonna beat a start like that). The deck feels very strong. Might even try -1 Evolve -1 Totemic Surge (down to 0 copies) for +2 Fishflinger to make Hagatha even better.
Since nobody is saying much about it, bloodhoof brave is an obscene aggro warrior card at a meh mana slot for them. With bloodsworn around I can't see it being anything short of monstrous
AGGRO warrior is already such a tight list. I bet rag will fit in but I can't see what you would remove to put blood hoof in?
There are better cards in the deck for damage/buff/dupe targets, but this just adds two more for consistency.
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Going to attempt a control highlander Paladin with the Liam/Hakkar package, and Heal package. I doubt it’ll work but if I can hit 1 with it by the end of the month I’ll consider it a success. I’ll post my theorycraft of it here in a bit
I actually was kinda interested in playing something like this since I opened a Hakkar and Liam but haven't really found a use. Would be curious to see your list!
predicting Highlander Secret Paladin, Quest Rogue, and Deathrattle Hunter to be the top players
Quest rogue has had lots of refinement but I don't think it will end up on top. It currently struggles to be a tier 2 deck. While both wild cards are burgle cards, they still use the old "from your opponent's class" instead of the newer burgle line of "from another class" which means that any decent presence of other rogues makes it much worse.
That being said, Swashburgler is a drop-in replacement for Pilfer and Shaku, the Collector is a replacement for Brightwing / Face Collector. I don't think there is a great need to run more burgle cards than the deck has currently.
Also of interest, Brightwing and Face Collector get slightly worse as their pool will have 9 added minions and only 3 of them are non-rogue class. Violet Haze gets ever so slightly worse as well as the only Deathrattle added to the pool is Sylvanas which is neutral but still worth playing.
I'm not sure if DR Hunter will have enough to stop people from killing it before it comes online right now. It could do well if other control-y decks become popular, though.
I'm interested in trying to craft around deathrattle rogue. After hearing about the N'Zoth interaction with the 3/4 reborn that heals for 3 makes it seem like a control rogue deck might finally be viable. With the scheme as well, playing a large number of N'Zoth would be possible but still trying to figure out what win condition to use besides fatigue.
I think playing N'zoth 12 times is a good enough win condition on its own. The more interesting question, in my opinion, is how to get to that point of the game. Rogue has a fairly weak game against aggressive decks early, but should start dominating when N'zoth starts coming down every few turns or so. I just don't know how rogue is going to deal with aggression.
Ok, here are a few thoughts/ideas I had for the new cards.
Highlander hunter can add call of the wild and remove siamat.
Quest paladin can run 2 eggs, 2 whelps, sylvanas, 1 khartut, kangors and N’Zoth as a top end and do great against most other greedy nzoth decks (not priest)
OTK paladin is going to get even stronger with emperor, might end up T1 by end of first week.
Quest priest with nzoth death rattle package and additional board clears in light bomb could make it the go to nzoth control package
If the meta goes control, would meta shift into emperor into elysiana+banker combo?
Taunt warrior might be worth testing, curator is a mech
blood hoof braves will probably end up seeing play in highlander warrior at the least, Aggro warrior as well.
Zoo lock with imp gang might just be enough to push it up, and I expect it to do well early when everyone is getting greedy.
I don’t think secret paladin is going to be good enough, will probably end up sub 50% w/r
Highlander control priest could be a thing that happens
Rogue isn’t going to find a good enough nzoth deck, tempo is their only option. Swashburgle will see play, not sure if it’s enough to make quest rogue better, but tempo can run it too.
Shaman will find a good evolve deck. Not sure if thing from below is going to be as good as it was before, quest shaman never hits totem, and only runs 4 other totems max. So it’s usually going to be a 4 or 5 mana cost, I just don’t think it’s gonna be run in an evolve quest shaman deck. Maybe evolve doesn’t run quest not sure
Emperor in a highlander Elise Druid shell could set up some crazy combos, along with dreampetal. Could see a Maly version, and an nzoth version working with an emp, Elise, floop, banker, and dreampetal shell.
Bold prediction? Reno mage. They already run kartut+conj, now they get sylv+conj plus nzoth (which brings back snipsnap too). They have sheep for opposing nzoth decks and sandbinder fetches rag or zephrysTirion. Oh and both their returning class cards are allstars.
Anyone think that Highlander Mage might work in the new meta? I think a NZoth build could be made to make the deck work.
Looking forward to the rogue cards coming in and giving quest a little more consistency, the 1 drop is pretty much better pilfer except in the mirror.
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I've pre built a juicy big shaman, with tharrasen and rag the list is solid and I am super pumped, just a question regarding the new cards are they in the evolve pool now aswell?
Yeah
Control Shaman might be really strong... you have 4 board clears and then insane lategame bombs with nzoth shudder and elysiana for fatigue plus hagatha for more value. If it can consistently make it to late game, it will be hard to beat