Who designed this mess and how do they have a job?
Dead giveaways that the customer won't tip
One Timeline to Rule Them All (and no, it’s not that one) (or that one..) (or that one...)
TOTW: Letter shapes
You see this entity
Post your list of physical no-go's in men (Straight up honest thread)
Built it in City Skylines, wasn't a traffic issue there, implemented irl
I wish all the road development in Calgary got this thorough a QA.
I drive it everyday at rush hour both ways...I actually can’t say I have an issue with it. Traffic moves great. It’s not pretty but wtf do I care if it looks nice. I get home from downtown in 20min.
Just gotta ensure the rights of way are set up right, and max out cycling!
Except if you actually built it in Cities Skylines with a city large enough you'd quickly realize how brutal of a choke point the small traffic circle is.
Here is what I know from surveying for the city:
- there are dozens of different requirements to be met (enviro, noise, eco, traffic, etc.)
- future planning is taken into account (ie some things might not make sense today)
- budgets also restrict (to some extent) the end result (for eg. a piece of road might be left behind due to going over cost)
- temporary things like roads can be left behind for years
When you put all these variables together, and to satisfy MOST of the parties and their requests, you end up with wacky solutions like these.
Also its NEVER just one person. This a committee thing - engineers and planners, etc. work together
Get outta here with your nuanced view of how civil infrastructure decisions are made! /s
I would say budgets restrict projects to a great extent. They restrict the number of structures you can build (bridges, tunnels) to minimize weaving and to accommodate pedestrians.
Also to add to yo ur list, there are regulations surrounding highway construction that the public is not privy to. These include things like lane width, turn radius, and merge distance. These are all modified by roadway grade etc. Also, communities have a lot of input. Part of the mess in the OP was done with the intent to create an all-access roadway to and from the Bowness acreages on the east of Sarcee.
This is absolutely a huge one. My FIL is a civil engineer who's done a lot of work for the city, and every time it's the same story: he'll propose a solution that's sane, efficient, and future-proof, and then when they learn how much it'll cost, they opt for a dumber, cheaper, more temporary option.
Budget is no1 concern at the city. I used to work for roads, and we just wouldn't finish jobs because ot wasn't allowed. It's just ridiculous. Meanwhile they give 270 mil for a stadium.
Can you possibly shed some light on what the logic was in shutting off access for residents joining 16th ave between say 10th st and 4th st? Unless imagining things I swear those roads were connected to 16th ave at one point. Now they are basically bricked off. So living on a road just a few metres in, now instead of just leaving ones driveway, driving north a short way, and joining 16th ave by turning right. Now? Nope - too bad you have to drive to 4th and possibly wait a while to turn left north, or gamble its quicker going west and turning right on 10th and going the extra bit of distance.
The only thing I can think of is that logically, shutting off southbound right turns into the side street being disallowed to prevent rear shunts on busy 16th ave, but joining 16th by turning right would at most cause a slight slowdown to approaching traffic behind the turner. I might be over thinking this and Silly Hall just did this because it was a quick n dirty solution.
Committees do strange things.
Let’s be real, the crowchild and bow trail interchange is worse. I would much rather have duplicate exits and ramps as opposed to missing 1/4 of the ramps. Like those going from bow to crowchild south and crowchild north to bow trail west. Not to mention the bow trail east to crowchild north debacle that is worse with a traffic light now.
This interchange OP put isnt even bad. I drive it almost every day, its never an issue. The traffic circle isnt even really utilized yet much.
But that's where you Crowbomb with bikes to make drivers mad in the bottleneck!
Oh god. Bow Trail and Crowchild. That's un-saveable. Just blow it up and start again.
Here is the information you seek:
But here is the information you need:
Thank you, I don't understand how people can get their drivers license and still not know how to use a traffic circle.
This is how you answer a question on here.
That was actually pretty fascinating and I now have an appreciation for the design.
I'll look into applying for this "drivers license". Thought they were optional.
Yep, looks like Jeff and Jayson went on vacation and the team just winged it. /s
Not sure how people feel its a mess... It flows pretty well and allows for traffic to flow at a faster rate because of how its designed.
People who think its a mess just don't pay attention to the signs or know how to properly handle a traffic circle.
My only problem with this design is, it now causes slow ass drivers to stay in the left lane aaaaaallll the way down Sarcee and through the traffic circle because they're turning left onto 16th west.
I always thought it was a mess because it seemed like there were multiple ways to get to the same place, which seemed convoluted and adding road surface so some contracted company could make more dollars. After looking at the design link above it makes a lot more sense.
It lets people bypass the traffic circle that feeds Triity Hills (or what ever it is called) and if you want you can drive through the circle to go where you want too.
I would say that this is one of the better engineered spots in calgary.
I'm fine with traffic circles but why does it have both a traffic circle and an exit to get on to Sarcee southbound. Why??
It flows fine, sure, but I think it flowed just fine before.
What is even more disgraceful is the guy who made Deerfoot Tr at Glenmore go from 3 lanes to 2. I’ll be forever baffled at what they were thinking creating a bottleneck. Causing who know how many hours of delays everyday.
Glenmore and Crowchild is my most infuriating of a bottleneck. The reservoir prevents expansion, but most cars are trying to merge from the right to the left with heavy traffic each morning and the opposite each afternoon.
It’s not that bad once you drive around it a couple of times you get used to it
If you're heading Southbound onto Sarcee you can take an exit to get onto it OR a traffic circle. WHY??
It's actually extremely functional. There are non-stop ramps from:
- EB 16th to SB Sarcee
- NB Sarcee to EB 16th
- NB Sarcee to WB 16th
The traffic circle handles all traffic incoming from Bowness and from WB 16th, as well as the Bowdale area and upcoming Paskpoo development.
The only improvement that could be made is a non-stop ramp from WB 16 to SB Sarcee. There's space for it.
The only issue is if they make it in the NW corner then it becomes a half cloverleaf with weaving at the high traffic on/off ramps on westbound 16th, and weave zones are generally avoided if possible.
Plus there shouldn't be much traffic coming from Sarcee N, so the left turn from WB16 to SB Sarcee could have longer timing on the traffic light to ease congestion. But I'd agree that there's room for improvement if the traffic gets worse over time.
I moved from Calgary to Dublin, I thought Calgary had some wacky ideas until i had to drive this...Dropped pin Near E01, Northside, Dublin
The same idiot who made stoney trail 2 lanes in some spots causing same problems as on deerfoot.
It doesn’t look particularly complicated to me. Maintains light free access everywhere where it was previously, and adds access to the new development area.
Coming from Toronto, I feel that about half the roads in Calgary!
There's absolutely zero continuity anywhere in the city.
Noticed that at first here too. Miss your exit and good luck to you.
You're coming from Toronto and you're trying to talk about continunity...
May want to dismount before we have roasted horse for dinner.
One thing I’ve learned is that in
But driving on a well-designed roadway should be nearly stupid-proof. The way that Calgary puts zipper merges around corners just after merging in two lanes of traffic that had to somehow get onto a single on-ramp is just asking for accidents and bottlenecks. But don’t complain or everyone on
"People don't know how to drive on a road so it is clearly poorly designed."
It's a traffic circle. If someone doesn't know how to drive in a traffic circle, that is their fault, not the fault of the road design. We should have more traffic circles in Calgary.
Perhaps, but then there are also roundabouts in the city with constantly changing lane signage and designations that mess up how the roundabouts are supposed to work.
I read somewhere and also heard from another person that over in Europe the techs look/study at the Calgary roads on what not to do.
I don’t even know what I’m looking at here 💀
The same guy who designed
Took me a few months to figure out how to navigate that one.
I love that it has its own detailed page and it looks truly horrible. This thing isn't.
you obviously never had to experience the joys of Louisville's spaghetti junction
I go to Kentucky for work on occasion. Maybe I'll get to try it out someday!
I don't exactly feel encouraged to take Na'a drive. Dunno what it is.
Still better than Edmonton
I think this interchange is fine. It will make more sense once the volume from the Trinity Hills development starts moving through it. My only quip is that the merge distance from the roundabout to EB 16th is very short with a very poor sightline. For the volumes handled, the interchange otherwise functions well. Perhaps at the bottom of NB Sarcee, they could have split the EB and WB directions to even out volume, but really, it isn’t an issue.
By all means, please demonstrate how you would design an interchange that accommodates SIX directions of travel. I sincerely doubt you could design something that actually works as well as this system.
Keep in mind it was built off older existing infrastructure, on a hill and squeezed in by a rail line, and residential.
I'll get right to work on that! ...But only because it's your cake day.
I drive through this every day, I live in bowness. While I did have to read the signs the first time (hard I know.. reading) it's not that bad.
This causeway requires more brain power to figure out than Calgary drivers express they have
Roads?! Where we're going, we don't need roads!
It works just fine. The traffic circle is hardly used as it's for local access only. Most people are going north on Sarcee and then exit onto 16 Ave westbound, or 16 Ave EB to Sarcee southbound, neither of which requires the use of the traffic circle.
Etch A Sketch: check
Bottle of whiskey: check
Now I can be a city planner too.
I think youtubers that post "road fixes" in cities skylines/xl, would be a fine city engineer.
Probably a product of the interchange before that already being fucked and now they had to adapt it to fit even more traffic. A snowball of errors.
I have been wondering if this is temporary until the ring road is completed?
Oh God, glad I live in Walden!
Said no one ever
It almost kinda works
Source: I drive it every day
I think that the utility right is way messes it all up
ugh, the U/G stuff is a nightmare in many cases .... cost to rip out and replace is always interesting as you dont always know the condition of whats down there
Since moving here I've always said that Calgary has the worst interchanges I've ever seen. Can't they hire someone who's worked on the 401?
Oh boy I encountered this the other day after sunfall. Been a while since it was the old layout and I'll be honest it really threw me for a loop (pun intended). Ive driven in many European areas with their love of roundabouts (roundabouts surrounding roundabouts) but this took the cake.
I would imagine it's just getting used to it. Thing that constantly amuses me is the cities obsession with 2, 3, 4 way stops. I posit that many of these in the city could be replaced with traffic circles. The 3/4 way stop is very rare in Europe, its roundabouts, roundabouts, roundabouts. Kinder on brakes and saves on fuel. Not having a roundabout at Premier way and 8th st is just baffling. Perhaps the hill one way has something to do with it in winter, but that's what engine braking is for...
Hmmm... I wonder if one complains to ones local Alderman enough, a 4 way can be changed into a roundabout...
There must be hundreds, if not thousands of "what the hell were they thinking?" road head scratchers around the city. We could be here a while hahaha.
Yeah, I've got no problem with roundabouts and I actually prefer them. Although this city has a strange habit of making roundabouts that don't function the same as roundabouts are supposed to. And in this case, you've got a roundabout surrounded by exits and half the time you don't even need to enter the roundabout because you could have just taken an exit but there isn't clear signage. So it's a bit of a WTF unless you live in the area and take it every day.
I mean... brilliant city design doesn't work in the same sentence as Calgary.
just look at some of the neighbourhoods in the SE. there are clusters where there's only one main thoroughfare out of the lines of houses and lowrises and it's always backed up during rush hour.
The tough one for me is at Crowchild and Flanders! Yikes
The design may be bad... but the ever growing population of bad drivers in the city still amaze me.
A) why do people in Calgary rarely signal? B) why do people park so carelessly? C) how come there are so many abandoned cars on the side of the road?
Source: 3 years of living there.
I moved here in February, 2002, right in the middle of a major winter storm. The first thing I noticed was the prevalence of abandoned cars on the side of the road. Given the weather I wasn't surprised, but I continued to notice that cars would often just be left abandoned in the strangest places at all times of the year.
Ya know, i though the same thing at first. Thinking its was the biggest waste of time and money, until i started really enjoying the curves going into bownesss from sarcee.
Who approved this mess?
Geez, Calgary should do a 4 Leaf cloverleaf intersection at 14th St & 16th Ave NW. That would allow a free flow of traffic....what's that, there was one installed and then removed? Huh...saw a photograph on the wall at the Capital Hill Community Centre.
Whole thing works perfect! Once Trinity Hills is developed everyone will be saying oh what great foresight.
It‘s high level complaining. This is still 400x better than the one-level small road structures in europe with forced stop for traffic lights every 500m.
I raise you bow trail eastbound to crowchild trail northbound.
it's a bit better now, but still, it involves a u=turn in basically a parking lot.
fun fact: Fargo Season 3, the transport truck was parked right there.
This is great, ten options all directions. Complain about the stupid art work all over the city.. It doesn't do anything for traffic, except dristrated driving faak
When you play city skyline and get a job as city planning
"just like the simulation"
Every time I’m at that intersection, I think about if I were a little old lady how effing confused I’d be.
I was literally saying this today! Frustrating spaghetti to navigate if you’re not used to it.
For real I drive there everyday and be cussin at mofos daily who ever decided this shit
Same person who designed the stupid teardrop shaped roundabout up the road from there where it you go anything over half or come from one side it's nearly impossible to make it around the peak of the teardrop without clipping the curb
Should have kept the old clover leaf. Nice continuous flow. Apparently was not pedestrian friendly. That's also why new overpasses are designed the way they are now. To accommodate pedestrian traffic. Love how they put them on stoney to completely halt the flow of traffic trying to get onto the road
I was expecting to see any number of poop interchanges (Anderson deerfoot, memorial, McKnight/64th) but wasn't expecting this one. It deserves an award.
Designed to slow down traffic, all the measures in the past years are for this.
I say this all the time. It is an extremely dangerous intersection,especially coming down the hill on sarcee. At some point there will be a major accident here due to this poorly designed intersecrion.
I think it's a good design from a flow perspective but a terrible design for how people actually drive. The design seems to promote bad driving behavior. Lots of people cutting from the far left to the far right at the last second, people entering the traffic circle too fast, and people treating the lead up S curve to the traffic circle as one lane happen quite a bit.
That is a question on everyone mind going through this mess!!! You got it right it is a mess, feel sorry for anyone trying to navigate even with gps.
I used to drive this regularly before, during and after the reconfiguration (EB TC to NB Sarcee/SB Sarcee to WB TC). I didn't find it a mess at all, although I will say I didn't find it being much of an improvement (although I know that it was more to accommodate coming development).
If your using a GPS that relies on updates or changes it may not be up to date and cause more confusion.