May the lost souls rest on with God. they are remembered
4
Thank you for a beautiful article.
5
The fate of the world was decided by ordinary people who were called on to do extraordinary things. May God bless them all. "... that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion...", words then and forever true.
13
Thanks to Yutaka Iwasaki, whose excellent research was critical in permitting many American families to have closure.
17
So sad for the loss of any brave soul who serves. This is a very beautiful mission. I hope Mr. Taylor's work brings at least some measure of consolation and comfort to the families of those who died while serving our great nation, as well as some closure for the great nation which they served.
7
There is no way living Americans can express our gratitude to those intrepid sailors, soldiers, marines and submariners who risked or lost their lives for our freedom. I'm in awe of their courage. The battle of Okinawa was cruel and our sailors were subject to day and night attacks by 3000 Kamikaze planes whose desire was to die while our sailors fought to live and triumph which most did. How can we ever repay them and their families? This discovery is a reminder of an unpaid debt.
9
I would hope that this article serves to increase interest in saving the USS Ling ( WW2 fleet sub) which has been a museum boat near Hackensack NJ. They need donations for a worthy historical monument to those that served in the “ Silent Service “.
12
My uncle, Isauro (Vic) Silveira, was a radio man on that sub, and I've been to Okinawa twice looking for information. Thank you so much for publishing this story.
32
Peace be with your family.
9
Perhaps it is time for a reminder of the superb documentary television series, Victory at Sea, which was shown from 1952 to 1953, and is available in many home media formats.
11
The Battle of the Atlantic was far worse, but they were German, mostly. 1184 subs 756 lost, for them. All humans.
70 something British subs, lost. All humans.
My cousin, age 19, had the unenviable duty of crawling down a shaft in 'Nam, looking for V.C., armed with a flashlight and a .45. Gone.
NO winners in warfare. NONE.
20
@follow the money The winners write the history. If they didn't we would not have know of your cousin.
2
The discovery of the Grayback brings a rush of memory to our whole family blanketing the last 70 years.
My Uncle, John A. Moore, was the commander of the Grayback.
I'm 74 and my Mom, his sister, Francis Jones (Sellers), always told me that she prayed that I would be born one year after he died. I don't know if it is true, but it was certainly close. I was born on March 1, 1945.
He has always been my personal hero and the one person in the World I looked up to the most and wish I could have known more than any other. All my life I heard the stories about him.
There was always a special feeling of reverence respect and joy in the family whenever we talked of him. They all thought of him as a man of unusual strength and character.
He was non-assuming and with a quiet inner strength. The story goes that when he would come home on leave he would tell his mom, "Ok, I'm home Mom, do with me what you will".
Nobody was braver than he was. When he left to go on his last tour he told a member of the family in confidence that he would not be coming back. Somehow he knew what was in store for him and he went into that dark ocean of night and danger with dignity, strength, and bravery we could all take a lesson from.
44
My father was on a transport ship that was left unguarded near / before Leyete, no names please
2
My uncle, Marshall Lee George, for whom I am named, was one of those 80 souls on the Grayback. While I of course never knew him, I have always wondered where his body rested. Now we know. How fitting that the news of this discovery came on Veterans Day. I and my family are grateful to Tim Taylor and his expedition. I wish my father were alive to hear the news that his big brother was finally found.
37
Well-written article and a sobering reminder of the dangers at sea. My father went down with his plane - a McDonnell-Douglas F-3H jet in October 1961. So I empathize with the families of Grayback whose sailors rest with their ship at the bottom of the ocean.
18
The oceans are polluted with so much man made junk it is amazing all of us aren't sick ...
1
How ironic to read about this on Veteran's Day. So much unnecessary tragedy. I personally don't believe in "closure", only some understanding.
4
Please let us never forget the countless brave and selfless men and women who have given so much of themselves for our freedom; for our way of life.
To all of them....thank you and bless you.
8
"When I assumed command of the Pacific Fleet in 31 December, 1941, our submarines were already operating against the enemy, the only units of the Fleet that could come to grips with the Japanese for months to come. It was to the Submarine Force that I looked to carry the load until our great industrial activity could produce the weapons we so sorely needed to carry the war to the enemy. It is to the everlasting honor and glory of our submarine personnel that they never failed us in our days of peril.”—Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, commander-in-chief, United States Pacific Fleet, 1941-1945.
24
Well, my Father's WWII submarine was the USS Finback. He and the crew rescued George Bush senior after his fighter plane plunged into the Pacific, leaving just him to float on a raft (the other pilot didn't make it..... Amazing that GB was able to hold onto the periscope and then brought to safety on the submarine. We have pictures of this in black and white. Where would this country be had GB not been so lucky ? BTW, we are a family of democrats.
27
Great story except one of the basic elements of reporting: when? When was the sub found?
7
My Uncle Raymond Mayo is there.
30
Please visit the remaining museum boats to really understand serving in the Silent Service was like. Hard to imagine 30-60 patrols let alone getting depth charged .
Boats like the USS Ling near Hackensack can use donations to keep from closing .
14
I was a submarine officer on the USS Pomfret during WWII and participated in all 6 of her war patrols. Your article made me realize how fortunate I am to survive for 98 years & I grieve for my fellow submariners on the Grayback. God is good! Jim Canty
63
Thank you for your service, sir!
19
thank you for your service
11
I found this to be a brilliantly written story about a noble, inspirational and technically fascinating effort. The effort to get and/or confirm quotations from this involved and affected was my favorite part. NYT quality really shines on this one.
20
On this Veterans Day, we have another 80 souls to remember and silently thank for their sacrifice. They died in the battle to save Democracy, a noble and worthy cause. I pray this news brings some peace and relief to their loved ones - even after all these years these families have been suffering from their long absence, from the balance of their lives not lived, from missing their children grow up and all the other milestones of life we all take for granted. May God hold them in his hands.
14
It's Memorial_Day...
101 years ago, the 'war to end all wars'...which would've been a Nuclear_War had N.W.M.D.'s existed...finally, ended; meanwhile...war has become more profitable / predictable, edging closer to Hominid_Extinction with each new, (over, priced / under, performing...), weapons system, fielded!
I'm a navy brat, my father having served the Atlantic convoy run...
Again, today...I'm NOT marching in an apparatus parade behind my (former) ambulance, marking remembrance day because...I feel my presence might be misinterpreted as support for the war_crimes my country / most countries jump, into...so, enthusiastically!
I'm feeling exasperated: what will it take to bring the revulsion of combat home / make 'combat_experience' an undesirable 'resume-item'?!
Would folks be less likely to sign up for military service, if they knew they'd be utterly, forgotten, (if killed / missing), and considered outcasts, (vs. 'heroes'), if/when they returned?
What imaginary Iraqi_N-W.M.D.'s will some fearless leader imagine, when S/He next, seeks to engage in proxy_war profiteering?
I pose these question because, (economic or other) profit seems to be the primary motivation for EVERY human act, so...
How do we banish the fantasy_image of 'gallant' returned hero / heroine, Vs. the reality of 20+ veteran suicides Q-24-hrs.'s?
3
Governments make war. Individual men and women serve. Remembering them is not glorifying war. It is honouring their service and sacrifice.
9
@MJM
They don't just serve, they fight. They kill and get killed.
My late father served in the Navy during WW2 aboard an LST in the Atlantic. He would often mention about his slow-moving ship sailing from the U.S. to the European war theater while he and his shipmates wondered if they'd be torpedoed by German submarines lurking in the area. Thankfully, he and his crewmates survived the journey and the war.
I know he would have enjoyed reading a story like this. "Still on patrol" brought tears to my eyes. God bless those men of the U.S.S. Grayback.
18
YOUNGEST W W ll veteran is about 91 years and 10 months old. DOB about 2-1-28. Joins at 17 and just makes Okinawa D-Day, April 1, 1945.
8
May God bless the men who died in defense of their nation.
Their war is over.
11
Come on. My eyes are moist. Thank you for a great read!
9
The men and women of my parents' generation thought they might be freed from ever having to fight in a war after all their parents had fought the war to end all wars. That sadly was not true and they found themselves in a much bigger and more wasteful war. We as a nation now are dishonoring my parents and grand-parents generations, as we continue to fight our wars of choice over oil. Today we have over 5000 of our troops guarding oil fields in Syria. We still pretend to be fighting for our national interests as we know that the oil we fight for is killing the planet.
19
It's good to find these lost ships. My father and step-father were submariners. My father was at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. He'd graduated the Naval Academy the year before. His last submarine, USS Bowfin, is now part of the Pearl Harbor memorial. He was also on the USS Seawolf. He had an appendectomy and was at Pearl when it went back and was lost. The Submarine service was a very dangerous place to be in WWII. God Bless the families of all those lost. Lt Walsh, mentioned in this article, was on the sub my stepfather commanded, USS Rasher, right before his bathyscaphe adventure.
14
Thanks to their emotional maturity, our former enemy Japan is among our closest allies, and its people are our friends (Nagasaki notwithstanding). They lead the way in humanity and humility, and we are lucky to have their confidence.
Our former allies, the Russians, are exactly the opposite. As recently as the Kursk, a month before 9/11, they refused our aid, consigned their own sailors to death out of national pride.
Cherish your friends.
23
Wonderful article about wonderful people. Thanks for this Veterans Day reminder.
4
My Dad was a sub mariner, his friend told me he thought Eddie was crazy for going on submarines, so many were lost.
Dad said his Captain kept his crew safe but they sent many men to their death, sinking many ships. He served on the Segundo and maybe the Greenback. He may have served on the USS Arkansas too.
3
Five of the 80 men aboard were graduates of the Naval Academy. Read about their lives here: https://usnamemorialhall.org/index.php/Category:USS_Grayback_(SS_208)
To Honor! ⚓
16
Anyone wanting in depth info on our Submarine Force during WW2 should look to Clay Blair, Jr.'s great book- "Silent Victory-The U.S, Submarine War Against Japan".
5
@Jerry Kowalsky
Fully concur. Blair's book is a classic, right up there with Lockwood's 1951 work, "Sink 'Em All." Both are easily available online.
2
I wish this article had done more to emphasize the enormous role Yutaka Iwasaki obviously played in this discovery, instead of focusing so much on Taylor's well-funded team.
14
Indeed. Citizen science at its best.
7
Most military historians believed that the two most dangerous services were air crews and submarine crews. Both required specific physical traits (not too tall, not too heavy), extensive training, and a psychological profile that would enable them ti function in tight, highly constricted work areas.
Beyond these qualities, air crews and subramariners had to possess immense reserves of physical and emotional bravery. It was, of course, widely known but not often spoke about was the high casualty rates; a sinking sub or a spiraling bomber had very low survival chances.
All of which is by way of saying that these were brave lads, with guts, courage and a willingness to get in harm's way. Every time I read about these men, I can't help but salute their deepest of all sacrifice for their country.
39
My step-brother served on a submarine in the early 1980's. He said there were times when they'd play 'cat and mouse' with Russian subs while under the ice....for weeks. Not an exercise for those who are claustrophobic...or faint of heart!
11
Many thanks to Mr. Taylor and The Lost 52 Project for doing this; I wish them all success. My uncle, Robert E. “Bob” Page, a 20-year-old radio man 3rd Class, died along with all his crewmates when Japanese destroyers depth-charged the submarine USS Triton (SS-201) on March 15, 1943, off the Admiralty Islands in the Pacific. The Triton, a diesel-electric Tambor Class sub with a 60-man crew, was on its sixth patrol when sunk. Born not long afterward, I saw and felt the grief of his parents and siblings for decades. It never went away.
159
@John Crenshaw my dad's uncle was lost at sea in December 1941, he was 24 when he died, left a young wife, my dad doesn't remember him because he was only 3, but my grandad (his brother) missed him all his life, they were born close t ogether.
Uncle Dougie went down on HMS Neptune, which hit 3 mines, only one man survived.
10
This is the story of a submarine called The Grayback. Its "... last patrol was its third under the command of Lt. Cmdr. John A. Moore, who had been awarded the Navy Cross for each of the first two. His third Navy Cross would be awarded posthumously, after the submarine sent 21,594 tons of Japanese shipping to the bottom on its last mission. In all, the Grayback sank more than a dozen Japanese ships. The Navy considers submarines like the Grayback to be “still on patrol.”
80 American sailors gave their lives for their country and its citizens on that ship in WWII and their remains are still on the ship. Perhaps when the ship and the remains of its crew have completed their patrol and are brought home there should be a parade and honors and tributes to them in Hawaii and California, and in their home states. It is our tradition that we never leave a comrade on the battle field. Our boys will be brought home and WILL be honored for their sacrifice.
8
I think the sub and the sailors are best left in place. Buried at sea, now with known coordinates. May these brave sailors rest in oeace.
11
@Joel Friedlander
Under international maritime law going back many years warships like this are considered war graves & to be left undisturbed.
8
Veterans Day. Reading this is sobering. 80 men died a terrible death. Multiply that by 52 and you have a massive tragedy that is only a small fraction of the terrible harvest war brings. God bless those sailors and, really, can we pray for peace and hope someday we stop slaughtering each other?
12
greats Veterans Day story!
2
More than a footnote of history: "During World War II, the U.S. Navy's submarine service suffered the highest casualty percentage of all the American armed forces, losing one in five submariners. Some 16,000 submariners served during the war, of whom 375 officers and 3131 enlisted men were killed."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lost_United_States_submarines#During_World_War_II
13
@Austin
In the German Kriegsmarine over 75% of the U-boat crews never came home. That is 793, U-boats and about 28,000 submariners. They were never short of volunteers though.
7
@Rocket J Squrriel
"All but a handful were proud to belong to the u-boat man and, in true German manner, they served there with absolute loyalty and devotion to duty. But to say that every u-boat was manned only by volunteers was, by non-German standards at least, a myth."
SOURCE: "CONVOY The battle for convoys SC122 and HX229" by Martin Middlebrook, Chapter 3, "The Germans"
1
@Rocket J Squrriel : I remember at the conclusion of the film"Das Boot", the statistics of the loss of Nazi submariners was staggering. One in four returned home! A great, realistic, critically acclaimed film about our former enemies! Worth watching, again!
2
More people died on Okinawa than in the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan.
4
My father served in the Pacific aboard the USS Charr and the USS Chub after enlisting at age 17. He is gone now 20 years, but the older and wiser I get, the braver he was.
18
May God bless these men and their families.
8
I highly recommend the exhaustively researched “Silent Victory” by Clay Blair for anyone interested in the history of the USN Submarine Service in WWII.
5
This is a tremendous story. My uncle, who enlisted after Pearl Harbor in the Navy and just turned 95, spent the war at the Pearl Harbor submarine base working to repair battle damaged submarines and getting them patched up between patrols - they did not sit pier side long. He would tell me how the shoreside crew would make friends with the submarine crews and that many of them would not be seen again - the subs would depart on patrol to the Western Pacific and would just not come back - they went missing and presumed lost and would never be found. So grateful to the final crew of GRAYBACK and the mission to locate her "still on patrol..."
31
US Submarines were a major reason for the US success in the Pacific War. They slashed the Japanese merchant marine and destroyed the ability of Japan to build and fuel weapons of war. While carriers and bombing raids get most of the glory, the submarines took terrible risks to deliver blows to Japan that strangled the enemy. By 1945, US submarines were having trouble even finding any ships to sink.
A number of WW II US subs are still missing. Unless a Japanese report identified the destruction of a submarine (like the Wahoo or Grayback) they could just disappear forever into the depths of the ocean with their crew. Mines, accidents, or unrecorded or unlocated attacks destroyed some of them.
Men in submarines in the war could be cooped up for two months on a patrol. Little fresh water was available for bathing, bunks often had to be used by multiple sailors in shifts (especially when the torpedoes had not been used).
Because submarines are relatively small, a number of WW II submarines still survive as museums as silent memory to the sacrifice of thousands of US submariners. Submariners were all volunteers for this dangerous job (about 22% loss rate if men) and should never be forgotten.
24
@Tom Williamson
Once the fusing mistakes on the torpedoes were corrected and the incompetent pre-war commanders removed the fleet became deadly.
After the war, Admirals Nimitz and Lockwood (the Pacific fleet sub commander) both sent letters to the Nuremberg judges on behalf of German admiral Doenitz who was on trial. One of the charges was 'carrying out unrestricted submarine warfare'. Which means you give no warning and if floats, it dies. Except marked hospital ships. They basically said that they, and the British/Aussie/Dutch sub commanders were doing the same thing in the Pacific that Doenitz did in the Atlantic.
10
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
32
As a radio man in a B-17 my Uncle Jack was lost at sea off of Iceland on a training mission. My mother's life was changed forever because of that tragedy. We salute all the brave men and women who fought in war to save democracy for us.
27
I spend time photographing gravestones, and posting the pictures to genealogical websites. A small family graveyard beside a beautiful cotton field in rural Washington County, NC, has a military-style marker, with the word POMPANO written under the soldier's name. A quick internet search told the story of the lost sub, Pompano, a war-time tragedy. The marker was a cenotaph, as this soldier rested at the bottom of the sea. I still feel an emotional tug when I think of him. Thank you for finding these subs, and I hope you find the Pompano, too.
25
@Islandgirl
Thank you for taking the time to photograph these headstones. It's been a blessing to find many of my ancestors' and relatives' records on these websites; corroborating old stories and making new discoveries. One of these revelations was that my earliest namesake was in fact a Confederate war veteran - something my family was either unaware of or unwilling to discuss.
6
How wonderful to have found them. How wonderful that there are people with interests and hobbies and a spirit of exploration out here that can discover and fine thing and solve mysteries.
Bless those working to find all these ships and our MIAs in Vietnam and other places.
This was quite moving.
18
I am in absolute awe of the the people who have taken it upon themselves to delve through war archives in search of any discrepancies that might--might--give them a lead, all these decades later, about the ultimate fate of sailors who perished in war. When I think about the things in my life I consider my hobbies (Cycling! Woodworking! Kayaking!), none of those things will ever make a difference in anyone's life but my own.
These amateur archivists (and I use the term "amateur"--someone who pursues and activity for the love of it--with the highest respect) have made a contribution to society that deserves to be honored. No doubt the ancestors of the sailors appreciate their efforts; the rest of us should as well.
37
It takes a special kind of person and a very rare courage to fight a war in a steel coffin where there is no margin of error and everything from battery fires to poison gas to malfunctioning torpedo fuses and propellants to poor undersea navigational charts to power failures can kill you in a nano-second. At crush depth, the implosion of the pressure hull occurs so quickly that death is instantaneous, but a bomb hit the surface sent men to the bottom to slow cold death from drowning ended only by the descent to crush depth. The bravery of such men who volunteered to crew the silent service is remarkable. Despite all-too-well knowing the gravity of the risks, these men were volunteers who gave everything they were or would ever become to fight for their country and die a horrible death and be lost at sea in an unmarked grave 1000s of miles from home. It is fitting on Veterans Day to honor these sailors for their uncommon valor, their sense of duty, their love of country and their service. Their lives were not sacrificed in vain. May their souls stand at ease and be remembered and honored now that their 75 year old combat patrol has finally ended. Semper Fortis.
59
@American Akita Team As a former submarine sailor who made seven strategic deterrent patrols on two fleet ballistic missile submarines, I thank you for these words.
11
@Michael J. Cartwright Hi Michael, I also made seven patrols on two FBMs in the 1960s. I was privileged to make my first two patrols with two WWII war-patrol veterans: a captain and a chief steward. The courage of all these men and their dedication to the war effort was awe-inspiring.
12
52 "on eternal patrol."
We toll a ship's bell fifty-two times and call each boat's name each April on our birthday. COB (ret.)
19
“We shall never forget that it was our submarines that held the lines against the enemy while our fleets replaced losses and repaired wounds.”—Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz
18
It was a bit disappointing to not see more photos, especially of the conning tower plaque mentioned at the close of the article. The Washington Post has an excellent photo of it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/11/11/uss-grayback-discovered-tim-taylor-lost-project/%3foutputType=amp
At first fascinating but then profoundly sobering to see fish swimming around the submarine. Immense respect and deepest gratitude to those who lie among them and whose spirits continue the patrol.
11
@left coast finch
The hyperlink became incomplete when it was approved and posted. Furthermore, what looked like a photo is actually within the video on the same page. Sorry about the confusion.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/11/11/uss-grayback-discovered-tim-taylor-lost-project/%3foutputType=amp
3
@left coast finch Thanks for the link. The video was excellent.
Good work.
2
My dad fought the Japanese in WWII, Corp of engineers. He would never speak of it but he was not the same when he returned. But he returned. My heart goes out to these families who never knew until now. Thanks to Mr. Iwasaki and Mr. Taylor for such great work.
12
Mt. Taylor is a hero for daring & persevering to do what seemed to be the impossible- bring closure to the families of the lost men, and for retrieving the resting place of the Grayback.
Thank you Mr. Taylor.
7
The Submarine Service sustained the highest loss rate of any military operational branch. More than 20% of WW2 submariners remain "on eternal patrol" - the term used by my dad and his shipmates.
He served on the USS Tinosa, SS283, which had the dubious honor of being the first submarine to be fitted and go operational with, a new technology FM sonar. Their job was to enter and map minefileds using this device, which experienced frequent transient failures in the early days, while still in the minefields.
Mull that over for a moment.
This boat mapped the minefields around Okinawa in preparation for the upcoming invasion and landing.
Later, that boat was one of Hydemans Hellcats, one of the Mighty Mine Dodgers, a force that crossed deadly minefields to enter and operate in the the Sea of Japan.
It's not the sort of thing that teenage kids typically choose to do, and it is a tribute to the - true - sense of patriotism and duty that these incredibly brave men shared.
My dad was told he was too young to join the PT Boat force, so he went into the Submarine Service at 17 years old. 3 years at war, 2 boats, 9 patrols.
And a lot of absent friends.
40
I love being part of a country where dedicated people will (at their own initiative and expense) undertake searches like this. After Pearl Harbor, America relied heavily on these subs to carry on the war effort in the Pacific and 52 did not survive. Those lost sailors deserve to be found, even if after so many who missed them are gone.
13
When I was much younger, I read "Run Silent, Run Deep" by Captain Edward Beach. I still have the book, which I haven't looked at in years. After reading this, I think that I will.
4
Incredible story and a fitting end to the Grayback to be still on patrol. A tragic war with so many lives lost. The submariners were brave men, the last of the concept of a crew going out on its own to hunt and destroy with a captain under full command of his vessel with little to no radio instructions from Naval command other than to sink ships.
13
Eternal Father, strong to save
Whose arm has bound the restless wave.
Who bids the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep.
O hear us when we cry to thee
For those in peril on the sea.
Amen.
35
On this day let us give thanks to our Veterans and their sacrifice.
8
Where does the funding come from for this project ?
1
The link below mentions Donald “Boysie” Bollinger, who recently sold his family’s ship building company:
http://www.lost52project.org/L52__Expedition_2018_Japan_-_Note_Verbal_Request.pdf
1
it remains a mistery why anyone would want to become a submariner, if not forced to...
1
@Patrizia Filippi
Takes a certain kind of person, then & now. Thankfully we still have them. :)
1
I have been reading about WWII submarine warfare. I had no idea that the U.S. lost 52 subs. For an excellent account of what it was like to be on board one of our WWII subs hunting off the coast of Japan, I highly recommend "Clear the
Bridge: The War Patrols of the U.S.S. Tang," a memoir written by its skipper, Richard H. O'Kane. Let us keep the exploits of these brave men alive by sharing them with those around us.
9
@John Foster
O'Kane is a legend in the submarine service. He & a relative few were the only survivors when every sub driver's worst nightmare happened -- the "circular run." Even at the end of the war torpedoes were by no means perfect, & one would sometimes boomerang & sink the sub that fired it, which is what happened to Tang.
2
Fantastic. These explorers who are finding these historic ships at sea are really doing something special.
4
Thanks to Tim and Christine for the work they are doing. My father, William Decatur Whetstone was one of the survivors on the R12, the first sub Tim located. He was the officer on deck who was taking over deck watch from Shelby. He had harrowing memories of the event and lost several good friends who went down with the ship.
15
I am grateful to Yutaka Iwasaki for finding the key to locating the Grayback and to Tim Taylor and the members of The Lost 52 for their tireless efforts to find our lost loved ones.
This story is having an emotional impact on me that I can't explain. Do I share tears of joy in the discovery or the magnitude of so much loss? I don't know.
My father made it out of the battles of the Coral Sea and Okinawa untouched. His little destroyer escort wasn't a prized target like the Grayback was. I can imagine the excitement the bomber crew must have felt when they hit their target. It's what war does to us--it brings joy to killing one another--until we look behind us and see it for the tragedy war really is.
48
@GA
So true - and we forget the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month is originally commemorated for the end of WWI, 1100 hrs in England being twelve noon in mainland Europe, when the guns finally fell silent.
10
@Ecoute Sauvage
PS actual recording made by US artillery of final seconds before guns fall silent and for the first time in 4 years birds can be heard to sing
https://codatocoda.bandcamp.com/album/iwm-ww1-armistice-interpretation
4
"Still on patrol..."
I never heard this phrase before today.
As a submariner who made 6 long patrols on the George Washington Carver SSBN-656 in the 1970's, this strikes particularly hard.
30
At our monthly submarine veterans meeting we "toll our bell" for each submarine that was lost the month we are in. We never forget those that went before us and are still on Eternal Patrol.
"Sailor rest your oar."
27
Thank you for publishing this moving story. The Groton CT Submarine Memorial lists the names of those WWII submarines “that did not return” and “remain on patrol”. We and future generations owe an immense gratitude to those awesomely brave sailors who served on cramped WWII submarines. And we need appreciate our current fleet of attack and missile nuclear submarines, the most complex machines ever created by humans, are the primary bulwark of our nation’s defense. In our US Navy the Submariner stands unique and unchallenged.
21
My uncle was a WWII submariner in the pacific theater.
I would like to honor him on this day. A story that made him cry till the end of his life at age 90 was the commander flipping a coin on the deck of a submarine to see who would get an open spot. My uncle lost the toss and that submarine was lost at sea.
These submariners were very brave men. Always on patrol.
36
What a great accomplishment made by Project 52!! Every comment for this article brought tears to my eyes. I salute all veterans today and I Thank you for your service.
24
Great article. Clearly, sharp-eyed review of maritime documents is at least equal to charismatic technologies in discovery of long lost vessels. Less glamorous, though...
14
Sadly many of the Japanese merchant ships sunk late in the war were bringing POW's back to the home islands. They were unmarked and US subs could not know what they were torpedoing.
The Pacific was a grim theater of war spread over thousands of miles. Ships, planes and individuals were too easily lost in the ocean and on its islands.
Sadly much of this history is just that, history, to the youth of today. It is the subject of books unread. Few of those that fought in that war remain alive today. Places like Wake Island, the Coral Sea, Midway, Guadalcanal, mean nothing to anyone under 30.
D-Day in Europe has some level of recognition but most of that conflict is just as unknown.
But then how many know of the War that ended today 101 years ago on this day and the horrific nature of that conflict?
We should teach more of these conflicts and their cost. Our politicians should think of them as more than wreath laying ceremonies. War should not be some 'chess game' to those who begin them. In antiquity, Kings fought with their armies. They could not avoid the consequences of their decisions.
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@cynicalskeptic Mean nothing? I’m 39 and my son is 15. That’s quite the generalization of us “young people”. Those locations still resonate. My grandfather survived many battles as a Marine in the AP theater. He died last year. My son heard direct accounts, but his great-grandfather didn’t introduce him to WWII, his dedicated and hardworking teachers did. Kids these days have museums, books, youtube, google, and a host of resources to study as even I never have. The youngest care about their history and my son knows how close he is to the age to be registered for the draft. Let’s be honest, by their actions, it more appears the Boomers that have forgotten their parents and grandparents wars. The reigning politicians don’t engage war with the wisdom hard won from either of the global conflicts of the 20th century.
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@cynicalskeptic well said.
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@cynicalskeptic The National World War II Museum located in New Orleans does a beautiful job of educating all who attend. The museum takes very seriously its job of assuring that current and future generations understand the sacrifices of the War. It frequently hosts school children and provides tours conducted by well informed docents. Visiting WW II vets are treated as royalty. The immersive exhibits are a sobering experience. The human costs of war are on full display, including the sacrifices of the family and loved ones on the home front. It hosts visitors from all over the world, including those of former Allied and Axis countries. It is a huge campus, so visit early and stay late. Special features such as the 4D movie, "Beyond All Boundaries" and "Final Mission", dedicated to the USS Tang are outstanding. It tells the story.
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Whenever I see a remembrance of a previous war I think that the war never should have happened.
The failure of diplomacy is the failure of civilization leading to countless deaths.
Here in 2019 we are still contemplating using military force to solve what should be diplomatic issues.
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@Michael Kittle I once saw a bumper sticker that read, "War is not the answer." Someone had affixed a yellow stickie note to it on which was written, "What if the question is Auschwitz?"
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My father served on the Swordfish for 8 war patrols, transferring off just before they were lost in early 1945. He finished his last 3 patrols on the Springer. I recently found his journals from those patrols, which included the day he heard that all of his friends aboard the Swordfish were missing and presumed sunk by either a mine or a Japanese submarine. Pretty powerful stuff. Like others have mentioned here, he almost never spoke about it, although I wish he had. His journals have been an eye opener. He passed away in 1986, and I miss him every day. He is listed by the US Submarine Veterans of WWII as ‘on eternal patrol’.
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My uncle, for whom I am named, was one of the 80 on the Grayback. I won't identify him as this is very personal.
I never met him but as my father's older brother he lived large in our family. My aunt, his little sister, was convinced he was alive until maybe ten or fifteen years ago when she finally accepted that he was gone. She was just 16 when he died. My father, himself a WW2 Navy veteran, was very proud of his brother but grieved in his own quiet way.
My aunt called me today. She was watching the news (ABC) when they finished their program with a story about the discovery. She was dumbstruck. She called her daughter and they both called me. I was dumbstruck. I never thought the Grayback would be found. She was supposedly in thousands of feet of water in an uncertain place in the East China Sea.
When I was old enough to join the service I enlisted in the Navy and volunteered for submarines. A few years later I was onboard a nuclear submarine. I held the same job that my uncle had when he died. He was my inspiration.
The family didn't learn his fate until 1946. Up until then he was missing, presumed dead. But then they found those Japanese records. And at least there was some closure. But my aunt could not accept that her wonderful, funny, handsome, sharp-as-a-tack big brother was gone.
I only hope the crew's last moments were quick and merciful.
Thank you, Tim Taylor.
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@Bob thanks for sharing. Very interesting.
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@Bob This old submarine sailor thanks you.
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Thank you, Bob....and thank your uncle and your family who gave a lot to this country and to the world.
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Wonderful account. I was in kindergarten when Pearl Harbot was attacked with an Army Air Corps NCO uncle stationed at Hickam Field. Even as a grade schooler, I could sense the unity of the country. I can remember Victory Gardens and rationing. Our heroes inspired me to pursue a career in the Air Force. WW2 remains the most momentous affair in human history. God bless our greatest generation.
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Naval Weapons Station Seal Beach is the West Coast site for America’s World War II Submarine Memorial. Dedicated in 1977, this reverent shrine pays tribute to the over 3,000 submariners who never returned from the war. The memorial includes plaques for each of the 52 U.S. submarines lost in that conflict, as well as additional plaques representing submarines lost during the postwar Cold War era. Comprising less than 2% of America’s naval resources, submarines destroyed over 55% of all Japanese shipping during WWII. But they paid a heavy price: Of the 12,000 sailors serving in submarines during the war, one in four did not return.
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@Europasr2 In the Kriegsmarine, only 1 in 4 did return from their U-Boat service.
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It was a tight knit “Silent Service” and losses were felt deeply. My dad Walter Jr served in Halibut and was CO of Tilefish in WWII. He lost many friends and I lost many “Uncles”. Our military tradition continued - I was a Navy corpsman with the Marines at Khe Sanh and two of my sons are USAF pilots today with ME service to their credit.
A blessed Veterans Day to those gone but not forgotten and those supporting our country today.
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"The Navy considers submarines like the Grayback to be “still on patrol.”"
My eyes are not entirely dry.
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@Devon Belcher
Such heavy words to describe the heavy price those men paid.
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@Devon Belcher Nor are mine.
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@Devon Belcher Yes my namesake is still on patrol and was sunk in the USS Cisco near this area--never found either.
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These long lost relics of a heroic past deserve the utmost reverence. They must remain undisturbed, "still on patrol." A fitting resting place for these men of courage and sacrifice.
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As the proud parents of a submariner we pray that this will bring peace and closure for those who lost their loved ones.
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@Thomas Payne And I hope that you never have to go thru such anguish.
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@Thomas Payne Thank you and your son/daughter for his or her service.
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My dad served on the USS Sea Dog, a Balao-class submarine in the Pacific in WWII. He made it back, or I would not be here today, reading this story. His sub was one of the Mighty Mine Dodgers that went up into the Sea of Japan. Dad didn't talk about the war much. I don't think many of those guys did, the ones that came home. I'm glad the Grayback has been found. Those men are not forgotten.
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@LW , my dad was on USS Kraken, also a Balao-class sub. When my oldest son was about 5 Dad took him to see the USS Becuna in Philadelphia, and Dad was wearing a USS Kraken cap. The person at the ticket booth took one look at Dad's cap and said "this is on us."
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@LW: My father served as a Marine on both Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima...and survived, perhaps other, lesser-known areas as well. I'll never know since he never talked of it. How I wish I had asked him; but I finally noticed that my children know nothing of my time as a machine gunner on long-range reconnaissance patrols in the mountains near DaNang, RVN. Some things never change.
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@LW
My dad was on the 283 boat, USS Tinosa, another Mine Dodger.
See full comment above.
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My dad was a WWII Submarine Service veteran. He always referred to the lost ships as "still on patrol." Thank you for publishing this for Veterans Day.
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While all branches of the US armed forces fought well in every theatre where deployed in the Second World War, the US Navy in the Pacific was particularly awe inspiring in the sheer scope of what they had to handle. The distances were immense, the challenge to supply fleets in such far-flung places was daunting. Those in submarines had incredibly hazardous duty. We'll never forget those sailors.
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@Heike Korošec
At the beginning of ww2, Japan had the strongest navy in the world. Until our miraculous victory at Midway, 6 months after Pearl Harbor.
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@JSK
Stronger than the Royal Navy?
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@David: Yes. The Royal Navy, mostly under the influence and direction of Winston Churchill, chose to forego expanded fighting in the Asian Theater in order to protect Mr. Churchill's pet "possession" - India. This was to the regret of British colonial posts, especially Singapore, that never received adequate protection on their sea coasts.
The British Navy would have been outgunned in the Pacific; whether they would have been out-fought will never be known.
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How touching and meaningful the Grayback was found thanks to the interest and effort of a Japanese citizen whose "passion" it was to help locate U.S. submarines.
It is comforting and promising that the animosity and carnage of war can not only cease but heal. A very promising story on the eve of Veteran's Day.
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@Laurence Bachmann: Your thoughts here are well-intentioned and earnest, but a bit off. The Japanese citizen's "passion" was in researching Japanese merchant ships; his notation that corrected the last location of the USS Grayback's was incidental to his focus, but still welcomed. Mr. Taylor noticed the discrepancy and acted on it.
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@Laurence Bachmann
Thank you for posting this - I was hoping someone here would remember to thank Mr Yutaka Iwasaki, of Kobe, Japan, to whom we owe this discovery of the missing submarine, now a tomb for its sailors. Thanks also to the 130 persons (so far) who upvoted your post - doubt many of them are Japanese. Banzai!
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@Houston Houlaw Quoting directly from the article, ""For me, finding U.S. submarines is part of my activity to introduce the tragic story of war,” he said. “It is my hobby, and also my passion.”" From this direct quote, it appears that Mr. Iwasaki's passion includes finding US subs in order to introduce the tragic story of war. It's not necessary to parse credit for the discover of the Grayback. Both Mr. Iwasaki's and Mr. Taylor's motivations were admirable and should be lauded.
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My father, Richard E Nichols, was executive officer of the USS Grayback when the submarine went into overhaul after
returning from it's first series of War Patrols. He was transferred to Groton, Conneticut, to put the submarine USS Bashaw into commission as the Commanding Officer. He finished his World War II service after a number of successful War Patrols.
He had served with most of his USS Grayback shipmates that were lost.
This Discovery closes a chapter on my father's World War II service.
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@Richard E Nichols Jr
you must have wonderful memories.
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@Richard E Nichols Jr I’m sure you are very proud of your dad. There are several mentions of your him in Clay Blair’s, “Silent Victory—The U.S. Submarine War Against Japan.” If you haven’t read it, the book is a lengthy but very readable account of submarine service in the Pacific.
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@Richard E Nichols Jr I am overwhelmed. Your family is honored by your father's service.
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Too bad the government doesn't have the money or resources to find the Lost 52. Too bad we are such a poor country.
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@R Kling To your point, remember this country elected (by a minority, but nonetheless elected) a president who thinks sailors and soldiers who are captured by the enemy or otherwise don’t come home are losers. He thinks the real heroes are those who get back. So why would he or this country spend any resources looking for “losers?”
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@Ernesto
Mister Bone Spurs can think what he likes.
As far as I am concerned, every man jack who signs the papers and ships out is a hero.
Never forget that these people stood up and walked forward because they agreed to protect us. Whether they came back or not, honour them. They earned it.
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Can we hear from the families of those our submariners killed?
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@John L Are you trying to imply these submarines did something wrong by defending the USA after Pearl Harbor?
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@John L
My uncle Thomas Francis O’Meara was a torpedo man on the Grayback. I never knew him, but I remember my father talking about his kid brother on eternal patrol. This helps to provide some closure to the surviving family members. A crew list of the 83 men can be found at
http://www.oneternalpatrol.com/uss-grayback-208.htm
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@Steve M
Well said, Steve M. Bravo!
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There’s a beautiful memorial to the 52 missing submarines at Liberty Station Park in San Diego called the 52 Boats Memorial. Each missing vessel is honored with a black granite marker listing the name, dates of the last patrol, and the crewmen on board. The markers line both sides of two tree-shaded paths near San Diego Bay. (Liberty Station is the site of the former Naval Training Station.) A moving but serene place to contemplate the scars of war.
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@David There is also a similar memorial just outside the entrance to the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station.
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U.S. Navy submariners: less than 2% of our armed forces in WW2 in the Pacific, they nonetheless sank 45% of the total Japanese shipping sunk in the theater. This despite inadequate resources and defective torpedoes. Godspeed to all of them.
For a complete history look for a copy of Paul Dull's exhaustive history of the U S sub effort.
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@L S Miller Forgive me, i confused Clay Blair for Paul Dull. Silent Victory is an amazing work.
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"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13)
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The Grayback is finally off patrol.
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@Ernest Montague
I beg to differ, good Sir. She (and her crew) is still On Patrol. We simply know her assigned sector.
Please, those with the knowledge, do not publish her coordinates. Pre-1945 steel is highly prized in the nuclear instrumentation sector because it has not been contaminated with radioisotopes. Iron Bottom Sound, so named due to the many ships of all navies who struggled there, has had numerous war graves "salvaged" by those who do not understand the sanctity of such places, seeing only dollar signs instead.
Leave the crew of this valiant boat "On Watch". They deserve no less.
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It is fitting to see this article on Veterans Day weekend.I have been thanking a lot of veterans for their service recently . One of my uncles, a U.S. Navy lieutenant, survived three ship sinkings in WWII -- North Africa, Anzio and D-Day. Truly our Greatest Generation.
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@Bearded One Hi Bearded One, when I am thanked for my service, I respond "It was my pleasure!" And, yes, they were "Truly our Greatest Generation."
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Oh, how tragic. But I bet the families appreciate the closure.
This reminded me of my dad talking about his WWII Navy assignment. He took the clerk test, apparently, and they gave him 2 choices. One was for aircraft carriers, and the other was submarine. The thought of the submarine made him claustrophobic. He picked the carrier. He came back.
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@memsomerville My dad picked the submarine - he came back as well.
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"Still on patrol..."
Any veteran of any service will weep at the sound of those words.
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@Richard Steele Dear Richard, As a latter-day submariner (seven "deterrent" patrols aboard boats
of the 41-for-freedom group) I agree completely.
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@Richard Steele Not only veterans. Rest In Peace. Finally.
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of Thy servants who sail their vessels beneath the seas. from the hidden dangers of the deep. Grant them courage, and a devotion to fulfill their duties, that they may better serve Thee and their native land.
Grayback sailors, rest your oars.
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Sailor, rest your oar
Sailor, rest your oar
When your final dive is made, and your battery's running low,
You'll know there lies a boat for you many fathoms here below,
With your annunciators jammed on full and your depth guage needles bent,
Your accumulator's dry of oil and your air banks all are spent,
It's then you get to wonderin', "is my life's boat rigged for dive?"
Your guessing drill commences, "am i dead or still alive?"
You pace the flooded decks with scorn and curse the flaws of man.
Into realms of rex you've stepped, and here you'll make your stand.
To live your life, as sailors must, at the bottom of the sea.
There's one you'll have to reckon-that one, my friend, is thee.
Will your conscience do you justice when the final muster's in?
Did you lead the kind of life you should in every port you've been?
The answers to these questions and many, many more,
Are locked in the hearts of sailormen from cannes to singapore.
So, when your day for mast rolls 'round. the choice is up to you,
Sailor chart your course of life right now. chart it straight and true.
Now's the time to flood your tanks and trim up 'fore and aft.
It's a trifle late when the klaxon sounds to square away your craft.
Your final billet lies below, on "old ocean's" floor.
So, be ready when that last word's passed.
Sailor, rest your oar!
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@John Bravo, John, Bravo!!
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amazing
sounds like they succeeded like the folks who recently found the Japanese aircraft carrier sunk in the battle of midway
with a lot less backing
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I echo the thanks to Tim Taylor and Christine Dennison for their tireless efforts in helping to bring closure to so many families—thank you.
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USS Grayback, on eternal patrol.
My Uncle served on USS Perch.
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@Timothy Foley Did your uncle survive the scuttling and make it home (I presume he served on the first Perch, SS-176)?
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Thank you, Tim Taylor and Christine Dennison, and your team for your work to complete the Lost 52 Project.
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...presently prepare thy grave; lie where the light foam the sea may beat thy gravestone daily...
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@Eric Pease Kudos for quoting “Timon of Athens,” but try to be more accurate.
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