Orange jumpsuits? Just in the United States of America. One can see here, someone is making money here. The Kurds have been benefiting from everything American, even jail or juvenile halls jumpsuits...
I struggle to understand why, in previous decades, child soldiers who were victims of genocide were brought to my country, Canada, and rehabilitated by professionals and educators (of whom my mother is one), but that now, no developed nations are interested in accepting the orphans amongst these prisoners and doing the same? Perhaps it is because pre 9/11, these conflicts were somewhere else, ABOUT somewhere else. But now, these ideological battles are about us, our ideals, quashing our free, democratic system and hit too close to home. My heart breaks for these children because they are, indeed, children. I have no sense anyone is coming to save them.
For those who say, “they may be young, but they’re radicalized murderers,” tell that to my mother, who taught and befriended Somali child soldiers; these boys are now adult members of our society, citizens making a living and, with a few exceptions, braking the cycle.
For the men in prison, throw away the key. They know their choices are their own. I’m not religious, but it’s a Corinthians thing: “when I was a child...”
5
The adult prisoners are members of a death cult with wild and dangerous dreams of domination and mass murder in a so-called caliphate. A regime with no regard for freedom, human rights,the rule of law (except their bizarre interpretation of a "holy" book) or toleration of any other ethnic group or creed or sect. Most are not nor have ever been American citizens or residents.
At best they are entitled to a humanely run POW camp under the Geneva or other relevant conventions, and not more.
The children, like the adults are almost to a person, non-Americans. Their home nations have primary responsibility. It would be wise while young minds are still pliable to get them into some closely confined camp with livable conditions and rigorous instruction in a trade. They also should be identified by face or fingerprint or DNA in a secure cyber environment so as to exclude their traveling ever to Europe or North America, unless their home country permits same.
2
The UN says individual should receive "education, medical care, and counseling."
The question is, Who is going to pay for all that...?
3
It is a sad situation.
But look it this way: The prisoners who are from the US, AU, the UK, etc. are all home grown ISIS. These prisoners were either born or grew up in the West, but they had still been radicalized.
You think these boys can easily been rehabilitated...?
3
The adults are not our problem. Leave them to the Islamic countries to judge. But the children, who are there only because their parents were stupid enough to join a religious war, are not at fault for anything. They are human beings and should be taken care much better until they can be sent to any living relatives. If none can be found, they should be treated as orphans and put into orphanages, if any exist there.
If there are no orphanages, what do we do with the children? This is something their parents never foresaw, but I'm sure the dead parents would want their children to be fed, clothed and housed decently. When countries go to war nobody thinks about the children. As a bumper sticker on a long-gone car of mine said, "War is not healthy for children and other living things."
Somebody needs to take care of these children. If not us, then who?
6
I sure wouldn't look to the Trump admnistration to care one single bit about these kids. Trump doesn't care about anyone's kids but his own privileged little group of synchopants.
5
I don’t think he is capable of caring about his own either.
1
There are supposedly around 70 Swedish children in these camps. 7 orphaned children were brought back to Sweden this spring.
The problems regarding these children are difficult, whatever opinion you have. If their mothers are in the camp, they will likely refuse to be separated from their children, who frequently were born after the mothers arrived and joined ISIS (against all recommendations, obviously). There is no way that the Swedish government will risk people's lives going into these camps to bring people back to Sweden. It is a huge security risk. Identifying adults and children is extremely hard - not least because the women are wearing niqab.
Terrorism affects all our lives, whether it leads to anxiety, change of behavior, getting killed by a truck in a city street, or like me, my friend, our daughter and her friends narrowly escaping an attack. The children are obviuosly not responsible for having some of the worst parents imaginable, but none other than their parents are responsible for their situation. As for the UN, organizations involved: they are doing what they can - not much at the moment, as far as I know. Who can blame them? How many would risk their lives trying to save somebody who hates you and would likely try to kill you if you came to their rescue? Hard to understand how and why this happens in 2019.
4
Very difficult situation. When you are between 9-14 you are certainly not an adult, but you also have been raised for years by parents who decided that murder was okay and terror was mandated. What about the children murdered by ISIS, raped by ISIS? Children who lost their families because they were murdered by the parents of these children, or by the kids themselves.
We cannot just let them rot in prison, but I don't have the solution for what to do. I suspect they have been radicalized as their parents were; is there a way to revert the brainwashing? We should at least try.
3
Huge problem. But, one dreadful group of misguided but none the less cruel and lethal people. My god-their cruelty is incomprehensible. And, they destroyed so many major historical sights. Even young kids were fully indoctrinated, trained to fight, and, in point of fact, many youngsters committed crimes against humanity. Every reason for their countries of origin to not want them back.
3
Do we pay our UN dues? Don't think we do. UN needs vastly more funds than it has to do all the work that is needed from them.
1
Where are the girls? Are they as unsafe, as shockingly housed? Or worse?
6
People are forgetting that these children were not responsible for their parents taking them along when they joined ISIS but are never-the-less ignored by their home countries for fear that they will be terrorists when they return. That is understandable because each will require a lot of care and guidance in order to successfully reintegrate into society. However, like a festering wound, the longer that they are left in limbo, the more likely it is that they will develop a hatred of society and cause the very mayhem that we fear when they are freed as one day they will be.
5
This is a cumulative tragedy – children penned up like animals after events that have left them traumatized, sick, isolated and often desperate. As they’re not guilty of the crimes of their parents, under what laws are they being punished? Guilt by association isn’t recognized in any civilized justice system.
These children will either die, escape and be recruited by ruthless militias and criminal gangs, or survive as mentally and physically wounded individuals: stateless, uneducated, destitute, at risk of the most heinous exploitation. Even child soldiers have been allowed rehabilitation programs and a second chance at a normal life. Without intervention these, and others like them, will serve a sentence of death-in-life – for the crime of being born to atrocious parents.
7
How many of these children are the children on US citizens?
Where are their extended families & are they trying to see them repatriated?
It sounds like the majority of children are the children of parents from countries other than the US. Shouldn’t those countries be forced to take responsibility for their own?
As others have asked...where is the UN 🇺🇳 on this issue?
A few months ago, there were lots of stories about the UK grandfather who had fought to get his grandchildren returned & successfully managed that. How are he & his grandchildren doing?
2
Maybe you are referring to the Swedish grandfather, who helped bring his 7 orphaned grandchildren back to Sweden? The children are taken into care. The grandfather barely sees them, from what I know (Swedish newspapers).
1
@Erika
Just as well there is minimal contact, as the grandparents completely failed to bring up the now deceased mother of those children.
1
@broman Yes, I agree, and so does the grandfather as well as the authorities. I don't know if the children are separated, I would think so. The grandmother was responsible for radicalizing her daughter (the children's mother), and has no contact with the children. The grandmother divorced her husband several decades ago.
1
I hope all those concerned about the children of the caliphate are equally concerned about our neighbors to the south of the USA .
3
Thank you, Ben and Ivor, for shining a light on these men and children. Seeing the boys peer through the hatch breaks my heart. I can only imagine how it felt to be there as a witness, and how hard it was to leave. Please keep up the good work and stay safe.
11
I am as conflicted as many other commentators about the whole business of what can be done - and it's a HUGE problem, with 10,000s of often scattered radicalised ex-fighters. For the younger children, there cannot be any problem: if any Western children are at risk, they are simply moved to a safe situation regardless of their parent's wishes. We would have to be very careful with older ones regarding rehabilitation but must try. The "stateless" adults? I confess I would be uneasy about taking them back, especially as they could not be proven guilty in most western courts. It would only need a tiny proportion to wreak havoc, and how could any leader explain that. A final thought - whatever is lacking in their lives, I'll bet it is NOT the book they use to justify their actions (sorry, "inactions") Why not pay the locals to care decently for them until we can be sure they are reformed. Also, secure accommodation in the UK is £63K p/a. If half the 850 who left were returned, keeping them secure until they were no longer a danger may be £500million. Legal costs would be half again. A tough call when trying to help with homeless/rehab children/old peoples care... just asking.
2
Putting aside all of the unknowns and what ifs, a nine year old boy should not be locked up with a crowd of nearly adult adolescents. Who knows what abuses he suffers. The look in that boy’s face is that of a broken mind and spirit.
7
My God, it looks as though the conditions for the children are even worse than for the adults. How anyone can condone this is unfathonable.
9
Would any of those commenters who said that these people have gotten what they deserve say the same thing if they were white? Or Christian? Do the commenters who have said these things consider that they are somehow different and better, that there are no circumstances that would have led them to do exactly the same thing, for the same reasons, however distorted those are (and I'm not defending IS in any way here.) Do such commenters who have children look at them and tell themselves that their own children are more deserving of fruit and an education and a chance to grow up? If those commenters call themselves Christian, how do they rationalize failing to see that all of us are essentially the same inside. Do these commenters feel that their own country stands for something so much better, and feel that entitles them to turn away from human empathy and the moral obligations that go with that? Read the top-rated comment in the NYT Picks - it said so much, so much better thank I could. People may be entitled to say who they want in their countries and who they don't, even if that includes bigots who look like them and excludes terrorists who don't. But if that also means that they as a people and a nation feel they're entitled to look away, that is equally as leaving in humanity as what IS did.
10
These guys were in Syria as part of an insurrection against the UN recognized government - and also part of ISIS, the world's most brutal and inhumane terrorist organization. The insurrection and ISIS are defeated. Let the Syrians deal with the rebels and the terrorists. It's their country where the insurrection, and the crimes, occurred. Why does the U.S. need to get involved? Again. In the Middle East tinderbox.
5
It so breaks my heart to see children growing up way, way different than I did. And then people not really caring.
4
Surely there must be some historical precedent for punishing children for the sins of their parents. Can we not use this as a basis for keeping the world safe from their potential crimes.
2
Where is the UN to address such situations for next steps.
This is not the first time in history such events happened with minors.
All countries must address their citizens.
It is imperative that a UN based solution be presented from trials of some, to integration back to society, to detention.
Like it or not, we were on the battlefield to defeat the terrorists. We don’t just walk away after killing the adult fighters. We don’t blame the radicalized youth. We don’t abandon their families.
We is in reference to the multi-national efforts that have played a part in this war.
2
This will most likely be unpopular but I feel we should accept these U.S. citizens and their children back into the country, and the parents should face all the legal ramifications that are warranted, and the children need to be returned to their extended families (if they exist) or foster care, and the children should also be given intensive mental health counseling.
10
As an American, I am out of empathy and sympathy. Why does it fall to America to fight for their freedoms and then care for them? Why not their own governments?
Treat them as they treated their enemies.
11
To make a commitment to the Kurds who are our most loyal allies losing 11,000 of their soldiers and then abandon them is an atrocity. Note that we are staying to guard the oil fields . We will pay for this big time.
13
@Tom: your country is plainly showing that it agrees with you. I don't know how to reconcile that to what it once stood for.
2
@SeoulPurpose
I wish you could feel how I feel. I am middle aged, my country has been at war, non stop since I was a child. My family has sacrificed living members to this pointless cause, and there is no end in sight. I make good money, so I pay thousands of dollars a year in taxes. I get roads that are failing, no police protection, schools are literal war zones, it's easier AND cheaper to buy street drugs than to get mental health care.
Yet I am supposed to simply ignore my reality and have unlimited funds and emotional capacity for beings that will not reciprocate, and would not even if they could.
4
It’s such an ethical dilemma.
Do we maintain ethical and legal standards regarding criminals of war (set out by the United Nations) or;
Do we continue to allow ISIS prisoners to suffer as a result of their terrible choices (and thus not spend/waste tax dollars on their comfort).
We do know, however, that the children of ISIS members should not suffer as a result of their parents bad choices; this is quite clear.
I hope we can develop a balanced approach that consults legal statute: but also protects peoples around the world, and ensures that ISIS members face the consequences of their crimes.
4
What is the male/femail ratio. Maybe I missed it.
What is it?
2
Yes, where are the girls?
1
Why do we paint these prisoners- if in fact ISIS members -as being in a situation that demands a reaction of care from those they tried to kill? They want to kill those that don’t believe in their way of life.
The children are there because their parents did not care that if they died- that their children would be without care.
I am glad these former fighters are jailed.
12
Your rogue president commits the criminal offence of bribery with the Ukraine and now genocide and crimes against humanity against the Kurds, the US is now one of the most despised countries on the planet having lost the trust of former allies and yet your president is above the law, only the international criminal court can bring the madness of King Trump to justice.
18
@Craig
I is my feeling that Trump was ready to do away with these kids and just didn't want it to smear his name. It's kind of the ultimate cowardice that defines a futal lord.
2
What do I think should happen here?
I think this is an extremely unusual situation, and so no real standard set of protocols exist. We should start with the best we know about houseing prisoners of unknown or non-existent crimes, and then create a new set of standards.
It will require a lot of money to handle this right. Clearly, they're going to have to build temporary baricks at the least and a highly guarded fence line. This should be an absolute demand. Then they'll have to hire a lot of gaurds to make sure there isn't internal crimes happening. Then they'll have to send in a large number of highly skilled psychologists (indistinguishable from the gaurds) to figure out over a long period of time, which ones seem like dangers and which ones do not.
I'm going to appeal to the worst in some of the US tendencies (with apparently the Turks? as proxies) -- to use it as an experimental ground for a new kind of prison system. The 'worst' tendencies I speak of are the exploitive ones -- some who get involved will have very personal motives. Nevertheless, I think it could work.
Provide the best medical care possible. Provide good meals. Provide good exercise, outdoor activities and thinking games. Provide education.
It is hard to harbor enough money to do this for such cases, but I think there are many ways it can be done.
This is my recommendation.
2
@Dave
My main point is that there are probably some radicalized children among them. It is going to take a long time and a lot of generous, humane and caring treatment at first. Then after at least a year or two, maybe some evidence will convince the world community of where to to from there.
Some nations might take them back. If not, maybe they can assimulate in Syria or Turkey. If not, leave the system in place for perpetuity.
2
@Dave
And when I say, leave the system in perpetuity, I mean leave them with a very dedicated medical staff, very good meals, very kind psychologists and potentially more social encounters, and the like.
Don't let it turn into a prison. Dilute the prison population enough with outsiders to make sure it is normal.
It could cost 100 million depending on the number and the circumstances. What are rich people for?
3
@Dave
I don't really mean 'purpituty', but just until something changes. Until they're taken in somewhere else with some reasonable assurances by evidence-based observations of attitudes and psychological motivations.
Perhaps the eventual solution for some over a period of 5-10 years is to find homes for them with families in the other side of the earth from their birthplaces.
It has worked before, I'm pretty sure.
These unfortunate and extremely vulnerable children should not be punished for the sins of their parents. They deserve a chance to have a peaceful and productive life. Can’t we show them a little compassion and humanity?
12
“If we are to teach real peace in this world, and if we are to carry on a real war against war, we shall have to begin with the children.” —Mahatma Gandhi
9
@Zareen
So offer a real solution. What should be done by whom and how will it be paid for?
1
@James
There are trauma-informed programs that serve former child soldiers and other vulnerable youth/victims of torture/war and help them reintegrate back into society. So, I think that would be a good place to start instead of indefinitely detaining them in these detestable prisons.
4
Clearly they deserve our help but there is a hook that comes with it and that hook is aimed at the liberals wanting to lower voting rights. If some argue even a nine-year old could be given voting rights then said nine-year old can also be held responsible for fighting as a soldier for an enemy army or group.
I for one believe the child is too young and therefore must be protected, but, far left liberals, you cannot have it both ways.
19
I am a retired attorney who visited many prisons in my day. This prison reminds me of some of the prisons I visited in New Jersey like the ones in Paterson and Elizabeth.
32
Both isis wives and children have been indoctrinated with a literal interpretation of the islamic qur'an's promotion of jihad. In fact many isis members even try to emulate prophet mohammed down to the style and cut of his clothing, in addition to believing the many kinds of intolerance he preached.
It's going to bee quite a process to change these deeply embedded beliefs. That has to be taken into account in any plans to integrate these people into the greater society.
30
@Stanley Gomez I agree, but how about doing something to help them regardless? Isn't the point in trying, regardless if the outcome is uncertain???
10
And I’m not sure the argument is even to integrate them into society - for now I think it’s just to get them out of a crowded prison cell into a camp where they can walk around in the sun and maybe get some rudimentary education.
10
I'm curious where the girls are?
14
@R D
As I read I kept waiting to learn of that, but no information. I too would like to know where the girls are.
2
"Jesus wept."
6
Some situations seem too difficult to solve, so no effort is taken.
That is our future.
14
The conditions are deplorable. That being said what many of these former-ISIS members or sympathizers did to their captives was barbaric. While human rights are something we should champion everywhere, there are many other countries and places in the world I’d start before focusing in Syria.
8
This new millennium has made us realize that we are not the country we have claimed to be for over 200 years. We may not have influence over these Syrian prisons, but they are a reminder of the migrant children we've imprisoned ("detention" is the preferred Newspeak) and for the men we are imprisoning for life at Guantanomo.
12
I feel bad for these people. It is evident from the interviews that some of these folks came to the war zone for economic reasons: a job. But others were there as part of ISIS. And fought. No doubt about it, war is profitable for some and problematic for many. And no matter the outcome all are losers. There are no winners here. Regional domination was the name of the game. This is Syria's war, not one that needs to involve the USA. Assad has been brutal enough in the past to have been able to eliminate the problem had he been left alone. His problem, his country.
Gab bard is correct. We need to be out of the regime change business. It failed under Obama and it is failing now. The only good news of late was that Trump called for a cease of hostilities for a week in order to pull our troops back to a safe area and to give time to the Kurds to evacuate. And the quid pro quo (I love that term) was sanctions against Turkey would be lifted IF there was a permanent ceasefire. By golly, it worked, as announced today.
Now is the time for the Arab community, Shiite and Sunni and others to work our a regional peace plan and let each nation be sovereign unto itself and rule it's people the way they see fit. And maybe wars like this will be a thing of the past. One can only hope and pray.
4
Syria with a Buffer Zone and Kurdish Zone, all of which engage the rights, liberties, and obligations of a democratic states. This is the ideal. The reality, war drags on with new combatants. The International Community has a stake and obligation to starts talks with the major players. People are interested in money, power (jobs and positions), and sex. Give the Kurds their state and partition the rest into two territories. Damascus to Assad and the areas outside to the Free Syrians. Build the place back up, try to get people jobs and the sex part will take care of itself.
1
What a disaster. Did the reporters see any of the girls or women the article mentions. Where are they, and under what conditions are they living?
16
A basic question those ISIS prisoners should have been asked is how did you treat prisoners that you captured in war and how did you treat the children you had taken control over, and why do you think you shall be treated any differently. And as we all know ISIS did not take prisoners, they killed them and their children. That is besides young girls who they took for sex slaves. So the idea of demanding their captors treat them according to "international standards", when international means the West, not the whole world, and especially not the Arab world, is absurd. However now that the Syrians will take control over them their final fate will be to be treated according to the standards they are familiar with. The Syrian army would line up POW's on the ground and drive bulldozers over their skulls.
14
@Mickael Stavsen, treating them humanely is what would make us civilized... But are we civilized? Not so sure these days.
3
Children in cages. I’m sensing a theme has emerged for Trump’s presidential legacy.
10
Just like Trump’s detention centers!
5
I don't begrudge these kids coming to America, if *nobody* else in a stable country will take them. After all, GWB destabilized the region, with his war based on lies involving yellowcake, which the NYT assisted in propagating.
That being said, I need to ask why our "friends" the Saudis are not taking them in as refugees.
15
Just as much as I am dissapointed with the US government I do think the Australian government is way worse and holds no value for it's citizens with its extreme idiologies.
3
Looks very similar to the Holocaust. Children abandoned , placed inside inhuman conditions, no one helping, slowly being tortured psychologically and physically. Never again everyone said. Well Russia dominates in Syria. Half a million killed. Trump bowed to Turkey. Not one word to help these children. Run to Starbucks , turn the page. Maybe this is only a small hint of what will spread through the globe Putin owns Trump.
20
Where is the UN on this issue? The effect of leaving these children in a prison will, unfortunately, affect all of us in one way or another.
The US cannot and should not take a lead position on this issue and should not participate by taking them in. They need to remain in the same region, with the same traditions and society.
6
The UN is a joke. A very sad one. Many of these ISIS fighters came from Europe. Perhaps the E.U. should take the lead on what to do with the kids. Regarding the adults, couldn’t care less what happens to people who systematically raped women and burned people in cages. Remember the poor pilot set on fire?
6
See those kids in prison? Their mothers and younger siblings who survived are in refugee camps that have been well-documented as breeding grounds for ISIS and radicalization. What do you think's going to happen in these camps, these prisons, indefinite detention?
It was known for months that ISIS would fall. Why wasn't there a plan from international governments and the Kurds for what would happen to the fighters, widows and children? What will happen to them now that Turkey, or Russia, or the Syrian Regime -- god knows who -- will take over? Why are children being detained and not sent to refugee camps?
The international community has failed Syria miserably, time and time again -- most recently with the abandonment of the Kurds. Countries seem to think that the Syria and ISIS issue will just go away if they turn a blind eye and wash their hands of a complex conflict. Well, the world's been through devastating international conflicts before and still managed to deal with the aftermath. They need to step up and address this calamity, now.
5
It is sad. Islamic countries such as Pakistan, Iran, and Turkey should take in these children until a solution is found.
15
It’s striking to think that tens of thousands of adults joined ISIS because they were brainwashed into believing their religion condoned violence in pursuit of domination. I wonder how many Americans are
buying in to “Christian” Dominionist propaganda that’s teaching adherents they must prepare to take up arms against their fellow citizens, in the event of Mr. Trump’s impeachment or loss at the polls.
These folks now have their own “Bible.”
7
If this article enlightens us about anything, it’s that people hate Trump more than ISIS fighters. That’s real deep down hatred.
10
The Saudis promoting wahhabism should initiate a healing process by apologizing to the Yazidis for the cruelty inflicted on them by their ISIS followers. Their interpretation of Islam has fueled intolerance on all sides and destroyed so many lives
18
"In dozens of interviews in two prisons, no one admitted to being a fighter." Imagine that.
This is one instance where Assad might have a role. Hand the prisoners over and let the chips fall where they may.
19
I worked as a hospice counselor to those dying of AIDS in prison. Many were murderers or drug dealers or innocents or pushed into gangs out of poverty and desperation. All of that became irrelevant in the face of a death sentence when AIDS WAS a death sentence.
I have no idea if we helped more than half a dozen to reclaim some sense of humanity in the face of an even more austere death sentence - prison. But I can tell you what it gave back to me - a belief in the inherent goodness imbedded in human beings when stripped of all of the artifice.
It brought me closer to a sense of what God would be like if I believed in him or her and the certainty that we should abandon no one if we truly believed in the beauty of creation. That in itself is the least we can do; not give up on our brothers and sisters.
21
But at least we got to ‘bring our troops home!’
No we didn’t, they’re going to Saudi Arabia; meanwhile ISIS who we ‘definitely totally annihilated’ is escaping or being abandoned in prisons because the Kurds had to go fight for their lives. Good job on just letting ISIS back out of their cages and by proxy murdering our allies who helped take down ISIS but can’t walk away from the region, Trump.
13
Unconscionable. Heartbreaking. Infuriating. Makes me sick. Trump owns this. How any American can read this and come away saying “not my problem” attitude is beyond comprehension. They may have to eat their words the day that disaster hits our shores. Think we’re immune? Think again. Trump is creating chaos left and right so the chances for serious disruption to our way of life rises by the week. Our government is in shambles except for the few who see the truth and are willing to speak out. Personally I feel helpless. But I can vote.
16
I'm sorry. I know this is complicated situation but I'm looking at these pictures and there is no way that the majority of these "kids" are ages 9-14. Are these the correct images?
18
I was 14 - 15 and looked like a 18 - 20 year old. I believe these pictures are plausible.
5
@Melissa
I do believe these are young kids who have lived hard lives thus far. They look older than they are for for survival. In short they’re innocent kids who didn’t ask to be in this position. Beyond sad, we must do something.
3
If Trump added forces to Syria he would get bashed for fueling war by the NY Times. When he pulls out hes bashed even more. I think most U.S. citizens are now utterly confused as to what is going on or needs to be done. The Secretary of Defense needs to get it together. Trump made the wrong choice here. But he was put in this position by decades of foreign policy mismanagement. Egypt, Libya, Somalia, Iraq, Syria...all complete foreign policy disasters. We need more reporting like this.
4
These kids have their parents to blame for their situation, no one else.
It’s understandable that countries don’t want to let these terrorists back into their country. Some of the older kids have probably been indoctrinated and are future terrorists.
20
@Olivoa I genuinely suggest you listen to the Daily on the Syrian father and you will know what the truth is!
2
How is this atrocity even possible? What is the legacy of this era: Children in cages?
6
Their parents put them in these cages. Meanwhile, we have 500,000 children in foster care in this country. I’m waiting for them to be someone’s priority. The children in this article are already indoctrinated adults! Do good where it might matter!
10
@Sarah Crane Chaisen
Aren’t we rationalizing evil when we argue one group of suffering children is more deserving of compassion than another. We treat dogs and cats better than these children. Shame on us!
2
It is unbelievable that the international community including the US allows this to happen. Where are the NGOs ?
4
And do you think Trump cares one bit about these people? Do you think he loses any sleep over the horrors he has unleashed?
Maybe some of them are dangerous. My guess is most of them have been caught in the fight between many factions and would like a normal life, whatever that looks like in this part of the world.
That they will be left to the care of the Turks, as-Assad, and Russia (Putin) gives me no comfort.
Time for all of us to pray for these poor souls.
7
Trump made it clear that he is wiping his hands of any responsibility. Now that the Russians; Iranians; and Syrians control the area, it is their problem.
4
The children should be repatriated to the home countries and rehabilitated. The children should be forever separated from their parents as the adults have proven how dangerous they are to civilization.
Children don’t choose their parents and by default can’t make their own decisions. Save the young children.
As for the adults, they would have to serve lengthy prison terms.
17
Now I understand after reading the comments. Let the other guy take care of the human beings caught in the ME trap. I am sending thoughts and prayers which should do the trick. Very interested to learn more about the foster care system in Syria et al that will receive these children if anyone has any information or better yet experience of it. Also, pls explain how one “makes” a relative “take” a child or children thrust on them to raise and care for. Like it or not it is getting harder and harder to turn away from all this suffering. Rest assured I manage to turn away.
3
This is a giant mess. And no simple answers.
You have people who willingly, knowingly, and foolishly, joined up with a raging insane ideological group who committed unspeakable acts of brutality upon large swaths of people. You also have people who were tricked, dragged or born into the same mess and now left behind with nowhere to go.
And how you go about sorting the two in the midst of raining bombs, multiple troops from multiple countries and almost no access into/out of an area is...impossible. How do you even begin to go about prosecuting people for war crimes when eyewitnesses are scattered, dead or just terrified to speak up?
I wish to heaven we could scoop up all the children but not knowing who they are, where they're from, and even how old they are makes that task alone fraught with legal and moral complications.
It's just a sad and overwhelming situation which I fear with end in mass slaughter.
29
I agree. You pretty much nailed it. Your telling me these leaders cant all meet and hash out a solution? If JP Morgan was still around, he would lock them in a room until they agree on a deal like he did with the railroads. Financial incentives go a long way. But we are wasting time on this impeachments mess that nothing gets done. News networks dont even report on this travesty. Its sick.
1
Your paper had a The Daily podcast on this subject recently. The women who was profiled is a 3X ISIS widow with three children, each from a different, now dead, ISIS fighter.
She is an Australian citizen who now just wants to come home. She went to the Middle East voluntarily and ended up in Syria.
Some things are just not our problem...
29
No child ever asked to be born and, when we as a society, give up on children, we might as well give up on each other. Children are our/the future and we can’t afford to forget that. Would we want others to turn their back on our children?
I became a teacher because I wanted to contribute to the future. I went to private schools but chose to teach in public schools because I wanted to reach a wider range of students because I really believe that children are inherently good and will respond to encouragement and affection. That applies to those children in those prisons. They are the
victims of their parents horrific decisions and now we’re punishing them again.
19
The kids should be everyone's problem though. Let's not forget this.
6
I cannot believe you say this. It was completely clear that she was taken to Syria forcefully. She went to the Turkey border to save a relative that her husband was talking about. Your comments just lack humanity and empathy but also attention to what you listen to.
9
With one exception, the photos show adult men. I am most concerned about children. If they are with a parent, it may be the parent’s right to keep their children with them, but what about unaccompanied minors? Why aren’t they being repatriated?
I am not suggesting that anyone of any age should be subjected to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment (the standard of human rights law), but what can we do to help the youngest detainees? Are any NGOs working on their cases?
13
Re-education or some kind of reprogramming would be so helpful for the ISIS soldiers and youth, but does that even work when the ideology in question is so tied to religion? They've tried this in Saudi (spending a lot of money only to mixed results), and China is attempting a brutal re-education in Xinjiang, but neither model seems possible in this situation.
So we're stuck -- the dilemma of not being able to prosecute the foreign fighters in their own homelands (in Europe, they'd get a year or two max), yet also not wanting to let them go to trial in the countries where they committed their crimes, probably means most will slip away... and in a few years they'll be regaling their children with their "heroic" exploits and hatreds (few will be claiming they were cooks then).
There is money to help these people and these children. Billionaires. Millionaires. A room for each. Food. Medical and psychological help. I hope some rich person out there is reading this article and making plans to help these suffering souls.
5
Even if many of the detainees were not fighters they clearly knew about the barbarism and crimes committed by Islamic State and were quite happy to benefit from those crimes when the "caliphate" was growing and had resources. 99% of them would be quite happy if it still existed. I don't take any pleasure in their detention or problems but it is difficult to see this as the "crisis" the author calls it.
18
Children should not pay for the crimes of their fathers... The UN, the USA and Europe need to help these kids. As for the adults, it seems like Turkey is on its way to free them. So terrorism from this group can resume full force. I guess we have created the conditions for this to happen. Thanks to ill advised policies from Trump, Obama, the Bushes, Clinton, etc. Stay out of this area. All we create is problems and all for oil.
4
Exactly. The US is a dangerous societal pathogen.
I recall reading about successful re-education programs in Africa where they helped the Lost Boys who were forced to become soldiers, integrate back into society. Surely some humanitarian organization can help the children.
10
Trump is absolute right about forcing those children and other former ISIS supporters, be repatriated to the countries they, and their parents, came from. And let each country’s legal system determine how best deal with them. There is no reason the US should pay for their re-indoctrination or resettlement in the US, which is the article’s veiled suggestion.
9
Who are we as a country if we do not fight to protect children? Each origin country MUST take back their citizens and give them due process through the legal system, including the US. This is beyond tragedy.
8
I’m sure they were already indoctrinated to hate Western culture and values. This issue is a Trojan horse for any country who takes them in,
37
@Hothouse Flower and our lack of compassion proves them right.
7
That is very wrong. The children who see the worst of these murder resent the murderers the most...
What a sad situation!
3
The world ignores a humanitarian crisis. Shocking.
7
The plan is probably to intentionally let Syrian government force occupy the areas where the prisons located. And then of course the Syrian government force will execute the prisoners en mass.
This solve the problems facing Kurdish force, Turkish and western governments. Let’s face it, the prisoners are impossible to deal with, better let someone who isn’t concerned with war crime to do it.
The prisoners are more or less radicalized regardless of whether they were fighters or not. The minors were probably brainwashed. And after they stayed in such bad condition for so long, they are possibly both radicalized by fellow prisoners or traumatized beyond repairs.
Which government in the world has the resources and political backing to deal with the prisoners? Just one case of suicide bomber can ruin the whole thing. No one can deal with them so they will be executed by Syrian government while others look the other way.
13
These are children who WILL be radicalized (and if they are already, will continue to be) by being raised in an environment devoid of love or education.
It sounds like it has the potential to be a real-life Lord of the Flies situation and it a situation ripe for abuse and exploitation. A nine-year-old without parents is being held with teenagers who are being held by adults!
10
These are not victims...we have seen their victims.
49
@Simon
The adults may well have perpetrated unspeakable crimes against humanity; but if the captors resort to vengeance and cruelty, what does that say about their captors?
3
I shudder to think what will happen when these people are eventually released. They were obviously already radicalized, this experience can only have strengthened their hate. They must be put in prisons in their home countries, and their children put in better homes
7
I fear for the soul of our country. The comments in response to this article in regards to the children involved by some, tells me that some American's have turned away from our inherent and long history of fighting for justice in the world.
Our history of fighting for and defending the people in this world who are victims of war seems to be lost.
I know that we cannot solve all of the worlds problems, but we could be counted on as a nation and as a people, to stand up for what is right and against tyranny. Instead now, we have people who see nothing wrong with it and openly support leaders who push us in that direction. We have people who see children who have suffered the terrors of war , who have become orphans because of it, as the enemy. These children are seen as needing to pay for the sins of their fathers. And then we wonder why those children grow up to see us that way....
Shameful that for so many, that our Democracy no longer stands for what it once did.
We need to do some real soul searching here and the next election needs to reflect a return to our once proud values of freedom and justice for all.
322
@JDH
The task of the UN is to protect member countries from attack by other countries. Civil wars, internal masacres and such are outside the perview of the UN. This is not to say that an expanded mission for the UN is a bad idea, but that is not what their Charter says.
Can you imagine Joe Stalin or Chairman Mao supporting such intervention?
3
@JDH
These prisoners are not innocent peole who were caught behind battle lines. They are persons who hailed from safe countries and went to the Middle East to provide cannon fodder for ISIS - a religious war to make the entire Middle East a new Caliphate, as is required by their holy book, the Koran.
People with such religious fervor, who put their religious beliefs ahead of their patriotic duty as Americans to support and defend the US Constitution are essentailly war criminals. They may have acted out of ignorance as well as religious zeal, but they are none the less a clear and present danger to the United States, and the other democracies from which they originallly came.
They may well become terrorists if they are returned to their countries of origin. Let one of the countries which they saw as the new "Caliphate", say Syria, take possession of their fellow Islamists, and decide what to do with them based upon the laws laid down by the Koran.
21
@JDH Unfortunately these aren’t just innocent civilian children. These are children who have been indoctrinated into the most violent terrorist organization ever seen on Earth. Whether they were Cubsof the Caliphate or just area civilian children, they have been indoctrinated in hate and the brutal slaughter and oppression of any who don’t agree with their beliefs or follow them to the letter. It may take a year or more to sort out the best solution to deal with them. In the meantime it’s not the responsibility of the Americans to dictate how other nations deal with their own citizens. America has long been criticized for intervening in the affairs of foreign states. At present the excuse and blame for everything is “ American Colonialism”. The world can’t have it both ways , American money and troops taking care of their problems only to turn around and blame us for the outcome
We have removed American children and brought them home and continue to do so , It’s time other nations carry out their responsibilities using their own money and troops.
15
The United States has lost all moral authority under its morally bankcrupt leader, Donald J. Trump, so turning to our government to demand fair treatment for these prisoners and a solution to the problem of parentless children caught in wars not of their making seems rather pointless. Those of us who do have a moral conscience are tortured by these images and stories because we know that our government is in no small way responsible for the renewal/ perpetuation of injustice and more. If anyone is still wondering what the reverberations of Trump's presidency might hold, it is playing out before our eyes in real time now.
21
How the world deals with these children and for that matter the adult prisoners will determine whether the cycle of radicalism continues or is broken by humane treatment, healthcare and rehabilitation. I would venture a guess that the cost of treating this population as criminals will ultimately cost far more than treating them as wayward souls worthy of assistance and ultimately redemption with a productive future. This situation is what the U.N. exists to address, if it were not such a political quagmire.
17
USA and Saudi Arabia created and through various proxies in order to destabilize Syria and have it divided into 3 countries (they also did this in Iraq) its all about oil and pipelines people. But when Russia and Iran stepped in and started to crush ISIS, USA stepped in when they saw that ISIS will lose and also attacked them to get rid of evidence; now they should take care of these people in concentration camps cages. Their other proxies Kurds who have at least 2 terrorist groups in Syria will also lose. They can't hold on to 1/3 of country when they only constituted a few percent of Syria prior to war.
4
@kakorako Very wrong. What destabilized Syria was the autocratic, dictatorial rule by the Assad dynasty. The Arab Spring of 2011 hastened the Syrian Civil War that plunged that nation to the status of a failed state.
15
Let’s worry about the Yezidi’s and Kurds first. They are the real victims, but nobody seems to care about them.
61
Their plight leaves me ice cold. They are criminals who had no compassion for the victims whom they murdered in cold blood. Let them pay the price for their crimes.
33
@Robert Even the children?
13
Let THEM- a dehumanized, homogenized, stigmatized, excluded, nameless BEing- pay their price for who THEY are? We’re? What THEY did? What we fear that THEY may/ will do?
A reasonable point of view?
In a toxic, WE-THEY culture, globally, which enables, and even fosters, violating, by words and deeds, created, selected, targeted “the other(s).” Daily.
In a world in which policymakers, elected, selected, self-selected, ranging from types to democracies to dictatorships, at all levels, are personally unaccountable for their words and deeds. Whatever the implications and consequences. Both temporary as well as more permanent ones.
In a world in which people have the freedom to choose to be complacent about as well as complicit in acts of ummenschlichkeit. BEing willfully blind, deaf, indifferent, and ignorant about what IS which should not BE. Not THEN! Not NOW! Tomorrow?
Who are THEY? These 11,000.
Those employed, whose daily work created the arms that massacred more than half a million Syrians? Those actual manufacturers who profited? As well as enabled blockaded Yemenite children to starve to death?
What is a “reasonable price to pay,” by WHOM and WHERE, for being complicit-complacent in unadjudicated“ crimes against humanity” in the Court-of-Anchored-Impugnity?
1
As to why America should do anything about it, remember that America played a role in the creation of ISIS.
15
-Trump
Assad, Putin, Erdogan.
Now it's their problem. After all, they want it
3
The families of Nazis, wives and children, were not subject to any particular punishment after the defeat of Nazi Germany. This was the case even regarding war criminals incarcerated or executed.
One might argue that in that case the Axis was defeated and nobody expected their return or that these children would resurrect the Nazi as opposed to the ongoing threat of a "defeated" ISIS and their progeny.
However, I am not sure that after 1945 there was such certainly regarding the demise of the Nazi party and its ideology.
Be all that as it may, treating them worse than the children of concentration camp guards or the children of SS seems unusual.
Solution?
Children get repatriated.
14
@Joshua Schwartz
That setiment was probably due to the liberal Western idelologies of the WW2 victors, which isn't present here.
7
@Joshua Schwartz
True for western Germany, but Germans living in the eastern regions were subject to mass rape, forced relocations, imprisonment and death.
3
@Robert You are correct. This does not vitiate my conclusion, but does effect my argument. Thank you. I should have remembered that.
1
No amnesty or freedom should ever be given to any who has joined ISIS.
31
That is not what is being argued. They should be dealt with according to laws, not stockpiled in camps. Especially the women and children.
2
@d
And their children? I wonder how hatred and vengeance healed upon ISIS prisoners will actually work in dissuading others from joining ISIS?
If we had learned anything from the Iraq War, we would have left the dictators in charge of Syria and Libya. Maybe even supporting the dictators rather than helping to overthrow them.
GWB had an assumption that inside every Iraqi was an American heart (someone yearning for freedom, willing to accept the differences of their neighbors and allow them to speak freely and practice whatever faith they chose). This assumption, sadly, was not true. The hearts of some (not all) Iraqis lead to imposition of a specific religious practice, violence against those who are different, and lack of respect for freedom.
The dictators in Syria and Libya perhaps knew more about the people they ruled than Americans. The second 9/11 attack made it clear that without the repression from a dictator, the worst impulses of the citizenry would lead to the death of Americans on US soil.
23
@James
Pretty regressive stuff. Did it ever strike you that maybe a lot of these people harbor these sort of antipathies due being under the thumb of oppressive dictators? You seem to be arguing that they're inherently evil and need to be repressed by their leaders, which is a pretty ugly viewpoint to take.
13
@James
" The hearts of some (not all) _________ lead to imposition of a specific religious practice, violence against those who are different, and lack of respect for freedom."
You can put Americans in there as well.
7
@DennisMcG I am arguing that we are repeating the same mistakes over and over. It may be due to a base-level assumption that the people share our values.
But, if even a small portion of the population believes it is OK to kill you neighbor if they worship differently than you, it is hard to remove an oppressive leader and expect everything to be fine.
3
Syria's Assad should be the country to resolve the situation ; it was to the war in Syria that Isis first emerged and fighters from different countries swarmed to for Jihad . As harsh as it seems , they are stateless having sworn allegiance to Isis . As for the children , reeducation , food , and care for a chance in life ; all countries whence they come from should contribute to their care if they will not take them back .
3
Where is the Red Cross? I couldn't accept animals in a shelter living like this.
7
@Ray
They're not in the middle east.
It's the red crescent who is.
5
@matty there you’re wrong. The Red Cross is present and operating in all the ME countries. But other than advocating for the respect of human rights and international treaties there is little they can do, in such a situation. Better to ask ourselves, where are the States those children are nationals of?
4
When they were given the orange jumpsuits, and therefore thought they were going to be killed, did they have any empathy for their victims then?
32
@Chelmian did you miss the part of the story that talks about children ages 9 to 14??
13
FYI, Sec of Defense Esper said on Amanpour's show today (PBS) that he has received reports that at least 100 ISIS prisoners have escaped since the US began its withdrawal of troops.
4
“Be water my friend.” This is a famous quote by Bruce Lee that has been adopted by the movement in Hong Kong that has been working well for the protesters there. But there is a problem with water when you stop and store it. Like these kids, being locked away without air, light, and nature to cleanse and restore causes water to fester and become toxic. Everything in life can be explained and found in nature. If these kids stay locked up, they too will become toxic and getting them back to normal and living as functional adults will be far more difficult than if they can be integrated, somewhere, into normal lives sooner than later. This is tragic indeed...
29
@orange kayak This is how - 20 years from now - more radicals may still exist. The fact that they are locked up 24/7 in their developing years will have drastic consequences.
11
This is a horrible tragedy, one of many in the region. But we can't ignore the question posed by the elephant in the room: what should we do about it?
The only thing that might make a difference is a continued military presence, which many today support.
But consider Afghanistan. For over a decade we have been fighting a war designed to keep the Taliban at bay; thousands of American lives have been lost, and far more Afghani lives. We have spent one trillion dollars. And what have we accomplished? Have we reduced the influence of the Taliban? Have we diminished the terrorism and violence? It doesn't seem so.
I don't believe we can be isolationist in today's world. But there are regions of the world where military engagement may do more harm than good.
7
They had no pity, so why should we? The shoe is on the other foot now.
27
Which makes us no better than they are. So since we are all just as cruel and evil, why are we against them? And some if these victims are children. Victims of both sides. want to see the faces of the future terrorists? look at these children. want to see what created them.? Read this article and your response to it.
20
@Cheryl Adkins
We are not nearly as cruel or evil as they are. We need to be strong when faced with difficult decisions. We would be weak and foolish to let them out. They are not victims. Do not let them fool you!
7
@Susan
Many were children they had no choice they were born to this where is your sense of empathy and compassion for the children born to this? I find your point of view over simplistic and callous.
13
Hundreds of billions to wage pointless wars, nothing to help sort the causes of them or clean up afterwards. Shame USA (yes, I'm American).
21
How can we as Americans accept such inhumanity for children?
We are witness to it in Syria and in other parts of the world and most egregiously, here at home.
Although we cannot control what is happening in Syria now, I question why we tolerated it when we were there?
We do know that we can control what we do here.
For all the supporters of DT and his inhuman policies toward immigrant children on our soil, I am begging you to please reconsider your support.
Please reconsider and rediscover your humanity that was once one of the core principles of our Democracy.
We are lost without it.
16
@JDH
America is neither the world's cop nor the world's social worker.
11
When did it become America's responsibility to care for any orphan or war child in the universe?
34
@Ratburi Amen to that. Especially when it comes to terrorists. A lot of these kids were trained as soldiers for ISIS and have had extremest ideology thrust on them since before they could think for themselves. It's a tragedy about the prison conditions but ISIS did it to themselves.
11
Their victims were tortured, raped, enslaved, and still lie in unmarked mass graves. They do not deserve a climate controlled cell. They do not deserve a morning cup of coffee. They do not deserve three square meals. What they have there, however squalid it may seem, is more than they deserve.
68
@Daniel none of the children discussed in this article did any torturing, raping, or enslaving
23
You’re obviously incorrect, we have no evidence on any one person there beyond the circumstances in which they were captured. But we know what we know. Additionally it could be very likely that a young 16 or 17 year old mind that has partaken in those activities or witnessed them, for years, could be sympathetic to their former caliphate and to their comrades and their jihadi parents. They certainly could pose a security risk no matter how optimistically you’d like to look at it, especially as they get older. I’ll admit I wouldn’t want them living in my neighborhood. It is a very touchy situation, and is going to have to be addressed by the Syrian Arab Republic.
13
Maybe they should be put up for adoption. Let’s see how many people can walk the walk.
26
All the children need to be sent home to their home countries.
They need to be sent to relatives or to the foster care system.
They are innocent.
The sins of the fathers and mothers are not laid upon the children.
Even if Mom ran off to join ISIS from England, or the US, or Egypt, the children still have citizenship in those countries. They are not the citizens of ISIS, they are the citizens of England or the US or Egypt.
It is that simple.
That WE and other countries are allowing our own children to languish in jails, neglected, probably abused, starving, is appalling and wrong. Those are OUR kids.
Bring all the kids home. Their parents made terrible mistakes, they killed and maimed and raped.
But the children are innocent and should be immediately moved out of the jails and into relatives' or foster care in their HOME countries.
They are citizens, not criminals. This situation is unforgivable.
85
@Katie
How do you know the kids are innocent?
34
@James What happened to empathy and compassion? We don‘t know their story and blame and hatred only fuel wars. Children are not to treated like adults who are conscience of choice. Imagine this is your child or your nephew or niece. Forgiveness can heal all wounds. Talk to real people who know about such experiences.
14
@Katie Trump had no compunction of holding migrant children in appalling conditions ; what do you expect ? These children in Kurdish camps most likely don't have relatives that are living and there is the possibility some have been indoctrinated to the Isis view and not that innocent , it is a sad state of affairs . Countries should come together and solve this situation ; it is not too late to reeducate them , remove the stain of radicalism , and give them a chance in life . The Kurds cannot watch them or take care of them , they are also fighting for survival. As for removal to foster care in their HOME countries , look at the countries they come from , those countries probably don't have foster care and they would end up free but on the streets . The Russian kid was probably from Chechnya ; Putin will certainly not welcome him back . Well intended thoughts do not solve the situation but commitment to taking care with education and a chance in life do not come cheap ; who is willing to restore dignity afforded a human being when we fight ourselves ?
3
None of them admits to being an ISIS fighter. And of course we're supposed to believe them. They committed their crimes against humanity in Syria, thus they should be handed over to there Syrians for judgment.
42
All of these people need to be handed over to the Syrians. That is the country they decided to invade and that is the country they should answer to. All of these crocodile tears leave me cold when these same people ran around gleefully murdering and raping their victims.
60
@Joe Part of me agrees with you re: the Westerners who decided to join IS, but the Syrians there had little to no choice if they were against Assad. When governance breaks down, everything devolves into tribal allegiances for protection.
10
@Joe You mean the 9 year olds? Even if the children were involved in any way (and that's a big IF) it is a war crime to use child soldiers, and they are victims, not criminals.
28
@Durham MD Give it 10 years and then tell me if these children are victims. They have grown up around extremest ideology since they were born and I am sure that when they get older they will follow in there parents footsteps.
11
Perhaps we can transfer these detainees to our " sanctuary cities "?
19
@BD
But there's no guarantee that they would stay in those cities.
4
@BD Send em over. Our foster care system is pitiful but anything is better than detaining children in prisons.
1
South Dakota has plenty of room, and I hear, lots of good Christians who can righteously integrate these kids into S.D. society. It would bring lots of jobs and boost their tiny little economy. Seems to me that the Dakota’s would benefit the most if ISIS kids from the USA are returned here.
1
Seems like imprisoning children is a new trend in our sick world! What is happening to our humanity!?!
29
I kept ignoring this article, as I kept up on the news. I just read it. Forgive me while I throw up. What has happened to the world?What has happened to decency, empathy and kindness? What has happened to us, surely we are better than this. Honestly, power and money are enticing, but human kindness is worth so much more.
43
I didn’t read the article. I started by reading the comments. I’m afraid to read the article for it likely will have a toxic affect on my emotional health.
Irony rules. A society of monkeys. baboons, elephants etc are more humane than humans.
We go to zoos to look at the wild dangerous animals behind bars in cages when all society need do is look it the mirror. Our society is beyond evil. There are so many individual exceptions that there is some small space for consolation.
Climate change will be cleansing. Ask Noah. He can be found on Mt Ararat drinking wine.
1
Interesting reporting, but very little here on children. What I read instead was about hundreds of men from around the world, all denying their agency and involvement in IS. Somehow they crossed the globe and found themselves in Syria during the reign of the Islamic State, but claim they really had nothing to do with it.
108
@Beatrix
It's always amazing that no one inside a jail will admit to being a criminal.
31
Are you referring to the guards. Read the Stanford Prison Experiment.
2
We are not choosing to ignore this crisis. We just don't know what we can do to stop it.
16
the photographs are sad and confusing ..the article is about children but some photos show fighting age men
humane treatment of prisoners is something none of us can afford to abandon yes they are still human and we need to treat them better to preserve our humanity
8
Where is the UN? Why do we even have a UN if they do nothing?
357
@Jackie
And precisely how would the UN be allowed to even visit these sites? Neither Turkey nor Syria are interested in international attention, & the Kurds have no representation at the UN. What country will ask for inspection - hardly the US. Russia with its seat n the Security Council can veto anything.
23
@Jackie Your comment is on target. Why is it always the a United States or some other individual country that is responsible for maintains peace - whatever that may be - around the world.
Example: With all the flack we are taking for “abandoning” the Kurds, why is protecting the Kurds not being done by the UN?
Over time the UN appears to have become sort of a jobs program for diplomats and their banger on.
35
@Jackie
I don’t believe the UN is interested in entering what might quickly become a war zone. They do not have the resources or the personnel to deal with this situation. There is no accurate estimate as to how many are actually there; and who they really are.
2
The Bible has a thing or two to say about forgiveness, and specifically how prisoners should be treated and freed. And orphans and widows. If you claim to be Christian, please prayerfully reread (or read) the Gospels and the Prophets.
16
Each and every one of these people should stay where they are until they can be strictly vetted by the countries they're likely from. If there's any doubt whatsoever about their past, their actions, etc., they should remain where they are whatever the consequences that might arise.
At this point, I assume the worst about them and I think countries would be wise to do the same.
28
@LR People are opportunists, poor and desperate people especially so. So what if they were soldiers? Are you worried about the man missing a limb going to battle, or the one with a stump for a foot? There is a point at which we can decide to be human, or we can become terrorists ourselves.
11
@Meredith R.
Most of the ISIS fighters came from well-off middle class families and were looking for religious meaning in their lives.
All of the 911 murderers were from middle to upper class families. Jihad is not an economic war for financial justice!
9
Where is the United Nations? They used to have a program for placing refugees. Surely they should come in and provide a safe place for the children, right?
Beyond providing humane treatment (e.g., not starving them, and at least one guy looks starved to near death), I don't know what to say about the former ISIS fighters who are adults. But we can see that children are locked up too, and isn't that obviously wrong?
13
Whatever they might have done. what Assad will do to these prisoners will be worse. They should not have been left like this.
6
@Mary M
poor choices lead to bad consequences.
15
Find it difficult to feel any sympathy. Doubt their suffering compares with that which they inflicted on the communities in which they briefly ruled. There doesn't seem to be an easy answer as to what to do with them, and the resources that would be needed to improve their condition is more justly needed to rebuild the area that they destroyed.
It's sad that a few photographs generate such sympathy and leads viewers to forget, like we forget how George W. Bush got us into this mess.
45
@xcubbies9 George Bush? The problems with Syria started in 2011 during the Arab Spring. The Obama administration backed the Syrian Democratic Front, drew the ignored “red line” in the sand, and ordered US troops to Syria in 2015. George Bush had nothing to do with this. ISIS gained strength, power, and territory reaching its height in 2014 during the Obama era. Trump is now trying to get us out of Syria and avoid another endless war as we have in Afghanistan.
The current situation in Syria is what happens when there are two non-state actors (Kurds and ISIS) in conflict. Neither had nor has the resources and institutional structure to handle this situation.
22
@cb
Bush's war destroyed Iraq. Former high-level Iraqi military made up a large part of ISIS leadership. Connect the dots.
17
@Andio No. Too much of a stretch. The Syrian Civil War brought on by the Arab Spring created this mess. ISIS was originally a part of Al Qaeda before AQ jettisoned them for becoming too radical and violent. Bush did not create either group.
10
Humanity has now reached the lowest possible degree of shame and disgrace.
7
@Turgut Dincer Actually it's been far worse in centuries past. Violence and a fight to control territory and resources have been a part of the development of human civilization from the beginning. The difference now is that you can see images from anywhere in the world in the comfort (hopefully) of your own home.
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@Turgut Dincer I take your point, but humanity has been, and still is, capable of far worse. That doesn't excuse this shameful, inhumane treatment of prisoners! The main takeaway that I have from the current conditions in the world is the fact that human-kind is no further advanced emotionally and morally than in the darkest ages of the past. We exist in a thin bubble of technological and intellectual advancement, but underneath, we remain savages, capable of any atrocity when feeling threatened. Looking at history, and the present, it is hard for me not to imagine a future, perhaps not so far ff, when our systems of order and law have crumbled and we live in a time of renewed and widespread horror - a new Dark Age. I can also imagine a world where technology, order, idealism, and enlightened systems of governance and management have wrought a world that successfully contains the brutishness of man and gradually swings the arc of evolution toward a brighter time. But this will not come about under the current leadership in the US and elsewhere.
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Human civilization is an oxymoron. Rather it is high tech barbarism, cleverly disguised.
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You may consider them children. In many parts of the world, including Europe, through most of history, 14-year-olds worked, went to war (Alexander the Great and Mughal Emperor Babar are examples), got married (Juliet was 14. 14-year-olds are capable of doing huge amounts of violent damage.
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@reader what's is your point? that they can handle these conditions?
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@reader - Juliet was 1) fictional and 2) 13.
Alexander the Great was 18 when he first went to war.
You are actually correct about Mughal Emperor Babar, but then again, he only lived to be 46.
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@reader Well, we burned witches and had slavery for most of that time period too, maybe we should get back to those too according to your thinking?
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This is so wrong.
I wonder what we dealt with German soldiers at the end of WWII ?
My heart breaks for all the people who got roped into ISIS against their will or because it was necessary to survive- which is probably most of them. Holding women and children, victims of this war, seems crazy. How many of the women were enslaved, abuducted or dragged into it by husbands? Surely all any of them want is a decent life. What would the be willing to do for a chance at it? How can we help them?
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@SP You'd probably be stunned by the retributive violence that ensued in the years after WWII. A forced migration of ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe took place from 1944 to 1950, resulting Iin a genocide that may have killed up to two million people (almost all civilians). The Marshall Plan was not conceived until 1948, nearly three years after the war had ended — by then it was clear that anything short of a herculean intervention by the United States would lead to catastrophe.
@SP Millions of German prisoners of war were for several years used as forced labor, both by the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.
The Reconstruction of GE: "At the Potsdam Conference, the victorious Allies ceded roughly 25% of Germany's pre-Anschluss territory to Poland and the Soviet Union. The German population in this area was expelled, together with the Germans of the Sudetenland and the German populations scattered throughout the rest of Eastern Europe. Between 1.5 and 2 million are said to have died in the process, depending on source. As a result, the population density grew in the "new" Germany that remained after the dismemberment."
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With the severe wasting and overcrowding, has anyone looked at infectious diseases including tuberculosis? The setting appears explosive for transmission.
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@Karen J
The same thought crosses my mind about our sanctuary cities! In those camps in California the situation is so much worse!
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This is a disgrace of humanity.
Where is the UN?
Where the Red Cross?
Where is Doctors without Borders?
Why aren't these people being fed and given medical care?
Why are the children in cages? Surely, they are aren't being accused of being terrorist?
Have these people been charged with a crime? Or are they people defending their land and now being labeled as terrorists?
Based on these photos, these weak, emancipated people are no threat to anyone. These photos have echoes of concentration camp photos--holding people in cells and starving them to death.
How is it that NYT is allowed access, but food, water, medical supplies, and nonprofits and aid groups aren't given access?
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@Gus
Why aren't you over there helping them then?
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@Gus
"Where is the UN?
Where the Red Cross?
Where is Doctors without Borders?"
The UN cannot enter where it is not asked to, and neither the Red Cross/Red Crescent nor MSF will send help where the basic safety of its personnel cannot be assured. Reporters on the other hand can go voluntarily to very dangerous places and sometimes they die doing this. Sometimes money changed hands to allow access. Do you really think that someone just showed up at the door, said "I'm from the NY Times," and was let in to photograph?
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These children are human beings, who are where they are through the choices and actions of others. Let us start with that baseline understanding.
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Let’s start with baseline understanding that the primary responsibility for well-being of children is on their parents, in this case IS volunteers.
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@Tesnik This is the same argument used to justify the separation of children from their families at our southern border. It is tantamount to saying "since it is their parents' fault, we don't have to care about what happens to them." I find this a cruel, despicable, and highly immoral. Reminder: "Whatsoever ye sow, that shall ye also reap."
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These are terrorists and their relatives we are discussing. This is not a crisis, it is a consequence of the brutal, savage, evil actions of religious extremists, that have made their choices and now must own up to them.
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Nazi and Japanese soldiers captured by allied forces were treated more humanly then these boys. The nations that don’t want their citizens back should be ashamed of themselves. No individual, be they young or old, are beyond redemption.
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@Robert Cresto. German and Japanese solders surrendered and gave up the fight. A significant percentage of these folks will likely take up fighting again given the chance. Big difference.
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These are not their citizens anymore, countries have no obligation to take them back.
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First priority should be the minors described (the 9- to 14-year-olds) - they are both the most innocent and 'savable' and are the age group that will suffer the most damage from being warehoused in this way. Come on, nations of the world: you can't take in children nine to fourteen years of age???
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I think the ISIS children should be treated as Asylum Seekers. They should be allowed to come to America and start a new life. We should provide them affordable housing and of course free medical and education through college. We are a rich nation, we have the resources to undertake this endeavor.
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@Aaron Why America?
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@cb Because compassion is a virtue, and this country has had successful rehabilitation programs in the past, even though the mainstream media (including the NY Times, notably) does not write about such successes, and paying "through college" may not be necessary.
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Asylum, perhaps. Free housing and education through college? Nope. America does not provide that to our own citizens. Not even our own citizens with zero criminal background or association. So, no. We should not provide that for these people.
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The US had no business in Syria. Syria was pretty much a secular state, with the constitution requiring the head of state to be Muslim. That is not so much different than our unwritten demand of a Christian president, this nation would never elect an atheist, agnostic, or Muslim as president. The laws are based on the predominant Christian religion too. Assad is the legal head of state whether we like it or not,regime change is against international law, but we know that.
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@ARL The Syrians rose up against Assad, and when they were really close to ousting him, Assad gassed his own citizens (along with whoever else was unlucky enough to be there) and he was propped up by Iran and Hizbollah so that he has retained power. This had nothing to do with the US.
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Incarcerating children -- especially under these conditions, without basic care, information, or education -- is the surest way to radicalize the next generation.
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@JR All those citizens of western countries enjoyed living in the first world, and they ended up radicalized anyways. Best thing to do is to let them live in Muslim countries, since these people don't share western values.
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@KM Yes, all those radicalized children who somehow got to the middle east from the West all on their own. Lets let them suffer for the mistakes of their parents. That seems noble and moral. What a fantastic way to grow more discontented and abused adults.
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@JR
Yes. So too, at our own borders.
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Thank you for this reporting. Yes, too few know or think about these children, as well as the inhumane prisons you have described. I'm just not sure what to do with the information.
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Regarding the children, tough call. Perhaps the UN can appropriate funding from some of its many children's funds such as UNICEF to provide basic humanitarian care for them until a solution can be worked out as to their fate.
The adults? Too bad. Every action has a consequence. They knew what they were getting into when they affiliated with ISIS. Not our problem.
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@cb ,
Fund-raising for these well-established global humanitarian agencies is crucial and it can be a difficult but worthy challenge to raise Public Awareness.
To the world-at-large, forty years ago was The International Year of the Child under the banner of the United Nations and UNICEF. How are we doing in 2019?
Recently, UNICEF placed a call for donors with a report, asking 'What Would The World be Without UNICEF?', and it was daunting to see how civilized nations across the borders can participate in enhancing and making a difference for the well-being of all children in need, and their suffering on our planet.
@cb Except we don’t know they were affiliated with Isis. Or maybe Isis raided their village and they had the choice to comply or die. And now they are in another prison because of it.
Half of these comments seem very ignorant of the realities of living in a poor, unstable nation. For sure there are cruel, radicalized people in that prison. But the majority are regular people just trying to survive. And they are still trying, against incredible odds.
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So many unanswered questions. 11 000 plus prisoners, including women and children, are all of them terrorists? Did they simply incarcerate everyone living in the region?
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There is another camp with the women and many more children - 70,000 more people in fact. ISIS was/is huge.
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@ARL the population of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant was between 8 to 12 million people.
Why can't their home countries (including the US) take these children and have them adopted and educated? This is a travesty. Clearly, their families are useless and would not be missed.
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@Marian
Because the home countries don't want to risk repatriating folks with radical idelologies.
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@Marian Would you sign up to adopt one given that even at an early age they have been inculcated with a radical ideology? I would not.
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Between Assad, Erdogan, and Putin, I won't be surprised if many of these prisoners (adults and children) are eventually murdered. We can watch or look away as it happens, but it's obvious America has no intention of involving itself further, and there are lots of folks (including here in the comments) who would be relieved if all of these people were gone. It's a grim and ugly situation, and it will spawn new terrorism in the years to come.
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@A Agreed, it’s disturbing that half the comments in a supposedly liberal publication essentially advocate letting these people die. What the heck is going on, are people so removed from reality that they can’t relate to the extreme pain and suffering these prisoners have gone through? So much of America right now seems almost hungry for people to suffer.
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@A Letting them return to western countries is what will spawn more terrorism. They won't be a danger to us when they're all dead in a ditch.
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shamefully there are children who are Australian citizens living in these camps.The Australian government has ignored them.
I wonder how many are US citizen children, ignored by their government ? Before looking to the UN, lets look to ourselves.
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@j p b I think what you mean is, "Shamefully, there are children who are living in these camps." We can all be assured that whether the Islamic State trained these children for combat, the cruelty of incarceration will logically and permanently harden them against the individuals and forces they perceive to be complicit in the making of their misery. Regardless of nationality, every child deserves a chance to heal and rejoin society. There is no more effective training for hatred than indifference to suffering.
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@j p b The US has been repatriating American children from these camps if they are orphans or if the parent agrees to allow the child to be brought to the states. In some cases the mother refuses hoping to force the government to accept her as well. We can’t pry children out of their parents hands or we’d be called inhumane. In the end it’s the responsibility of the parent who put them in this brutal situation in the first place to put the child’s need ahead of their own and end it.
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@j p b if they somehow have US citizenship, then we don’t want them.
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The children. The older fighters, shown in one photo as nearly skeletal. This is not acceptable on any scale of justice. Both groups are the results of extreme religious interpretations. I think of Saudi Arabia, it’s oil billions. Trying to convince the world they are moderate, moving towards moderation in their global presentment.
They and all the...moderate Islamic states must step in and deal with this tragic result of extremism. Open an orphanage, try to get info on parents, relatives for the children. Expose them to moderate religious teachings, not so much as re-education, but as a persuasive alternative to what they have heard.
The adults- I leave it to those moderate countries- surely Islamic teachings have compassion, forgiveness, somewhere in their ideology. Even if just as POWs of a sort, feed them, put them to helpful work, teach skills, etc.
Children in cages, now behind barred cells, skeletal adults. Not acceptable. Not by Western values, and surely not by....Islamic values.
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“I made a mistake. I’ll admit it. I’ll admit it 1,000 times.”
Some mistakes have consequences that are far more dire than others. Apart from the children, I have a hard time feeling pity for a lot of these guys.
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There should be a world tax on weapons makers and their deals, paid to the UN or some agency tasked with humanitarian aid which would provide for all these children, victims of war.
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@SusieQue
Excellent idea! I wish more of the commenters here were able to do such thinking outside their tiny little vindictive boxes.
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@SusieQue
How will you get the Russians and Chinese to pay?
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@Frank F
Why not think of something that can actually be implemented?
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With every story I learn how horrible these wars have been. What can bring peace to the country?
Maybe the best hope is taking care of these children.
If these Kurdish people were US partners it seems obvious our military can ensure more humanitarian relief there.
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I know that these images are upsetting, but I would be absolutely opposed to any US military assistance being provided to this situation. If we were to involve ourselves directly, it would end up becoming our responsibility. That is why these folks are stuck in this limbo, no one wants these people because of the risk that they pose. It may not be just or humane, but it is understandable.
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@Dan G everything is equal in life. Can’t have the good without the bad. Unfortunately this is some of the bad.
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Thank you for this eye opening report. It is a forceful reminder that the humanitarian aspect of the wars in the Middle East has been almost completely forgotten and appears to be no factor anymore for the recent decisions. We simply do not care about caged children at the southern border, prisoners in Guantanamo Bay and the thousands of incarcerated ISIS fighters and their supporters. Waiting for someone else to solve these issues seems to be the sad state of our minds. Disappointing.....
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American military appeared with food and water and hope after the devastation of the Seconod World War. After Vietnam we began outsourcing the rescues to NGOs. We have won hearts and minds with great humanitarian efforts powered by our military. It is how we kept the peace for decades. tTis is a tipping point. How do we redeem such young lives? We typically call in UNICef and Care but give little funding. these children are carrion for Assad unless their home countries are pressured by U S diplomats. Please follow up and tell us the stories of these children ad which countries refuse them entry.
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@Maureen
The NGOs and White Helmets can't be trusted anymore, many provide cover for undercover organizations.
Whatever happened to the UN Blue Helmets from back when?
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@Maureen My country, The Netherlands, to my shame has problems in deciding to bring those children back. I only know of two till now who are brought back to their grandparents and that our government hesitates to bring home some more. But not even all.
The same problem with their mothers and women without children.
For The Netherlands the adults lost their Dutch Nationality because of their decision to join ISIS so by law they are stateless. So 'official' there is no 'going home' anymore. On the other hand the government has problems keeping the children out of our country. There is (some) opposition against the fact children are the victim of the decisions of their parents. And family and grandparents and friends and some organisations for human rights are fighting to get them back.
It will take more (too much?) time before there will be any movement on this front in my country, I am afraid.
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Someone in the comments section said the US has children with problems, so these kids can wait in line. There is some hard cold truth to that beleif. However events do not happen in a vacuum. With good American leadership, espousing the values of common decency and empathy, situations can be addressed to mitigate unfortunate consequences. Trump lacks those qualities and makes impetuous decisions. He may have been told that the Kurds have imprisoned ISIS fighters, along with their children (who had no say in their fate), but he was not listening or most likely does not care. These children are now facing dire consequences as a result of Trump's decision to pull out of Syria. Yes, we have American children who need help, but the least a President can do, is not act to make children in a foreign country suffer more than they already are.
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@SLF: You mean like the Kurdish children that we allowed to be slaughtered by Turkish forces, along with other civilians? Dire consequences like those?
The United States had rehabilitation programs for terrorists (I think it was under G.W. Bush). These programs had proven results, but were discontinued because they allegedly were too expensive. The costs (including long-term costs) of legal and humanitarian crises such as the one described in this article most likely will be higher than the costs of rehabilitation programs.
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I have questions: Are United Nations personnel allowed in to see these children?
During WWII, children were considered victims of war, moved away from harm as much as possible and were placed in orphanages for adoption.
Are these kids considered untouchable because their parents were most probably ISIL? They can't be left in prison cells to rot.
There is no better way to create a new generation of terrorists than to abandon these youngsters to isolation, illness and hopelessness.
Does a single life, let alone prisons full of children not matter anymore?
Our own border has prisons of children. What is going on in our world?
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@Sparta480, Under international law they are Assad's to judge. We need to take care of our own people and prisoners first.
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In my (former) neck of the woods, Budapest, kids were gassed during WWII.
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this is amazing reporting and the situation is shockingly depressing. I struggle to even wrap my head around the short and long term implications of this prison and these prisoners, especially in light of the fact that it is maintained by a people under siege as well.
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The photos and narrative are simply an exposition of what we well knew would be the case months, if not several years ago as the ISIS territory shrunk and the hot potato of repatriation and prosecution of these combatants was bandied about in the news and likely in governmental offices around the globe. The UN, of which I am a hopeful advocate, proves again it has no teeth. While, the nations which have jurisdiction demonstrate they have little zeal for clearing this debacle which its citizens have created. ISIS was never a sovereign nation, so virtually all its cohort were/ are citizens , be they culpable or not, of other nations which should address the actions of its own.
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So it seems that the anxieties of US Anti trumpers have over the pull out of American military in this region is that it will expose the true crimes that the US has been complicit in. What at humanitarian disaster. Expose these horrors for what they are and point the fingers of justice toward those to started this horror...
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"Most of their home countries have refused to take them back, fearing that they harbor extremist thoughts or could carry out attacks." Part of our agreement to get out of Afghanistan and turn it over to the Taliban should include the transfer of these terrorists to them. Perhaps Iran may want them as well.
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Too late. We’re leaving Afghanistan without getting anything from the Taliban in return.
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I know there are people who will say, "these ISIS detainees don't deserve any better," however, without mentally meting out justice, one has to feel sad reading this.
Sad that the human situation has fallen to this level, and especially sad for many children who are for the most part innocent.
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@JHM It's Russia and Turkey's problem now.
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@John It has heretofore been the USA who led the way for human rights....apparently Trump has let this fall to the wayside as well.
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Brilliant reporting about this sad situation but they invoke no sympathy. We cannot ignore their macabre decapitations of innocent people nor can we ignore their nihilistic path to death and destruction in many countries. Perhaps the rest of the misguided youth egged by cowardly preachers can see their fate if they were ever to take that pathway. This is how all evil will end.
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But you can ignore the macabre imprisonment of innocent children?
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@Margaret You make a good thought provoking point and I certainly do not want to be like them. The best people to answer would be those who suffered the most because of ISIS.
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In his book "Savage Continent," historian Keith Lowe explores, among other things, the debate among Allied leaders about the fate of Germany's young in the aftermath of WWII. Many believed the Nazis had hopelessly radicalized the nation's youth, and that they could never be de-radicalized after a lifetime of indoctrination.
History proved that Germany and its young people, were, in fact, capable of moving beyond Nazism and rejoining the liberal order. So we have to believe there is some hope for the children of these ISIS fighters (though I personally believe their mothers and fathers can never be set free again).
Unfortunately, we are missing a lot of relevant information. Rehabilitation must begin with remorse and renouncement, and this article does little to help us understand how deep the rot of radical Islam has permeated ISIS's youth. It would be reckless in the extreme to attempt to reintegrate into Western society young people whose religious beliefs are antithetical to liberal values, or worse, extreme to the point of violence.
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OK so we cannot provide counseling or medical care to a 10 year old until they properly show remorse for being a victim of unspeakable horrors? OK got it. I guess you’re a social worker or a child psychologist?
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@Michael It really does require an army of counselors/therapists/moderate ministers/teachers/medical doctors. However, nobody wants to pay for that, it seems.
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@Michael
And how can a 9 or 10 year-old raised in the confusion and chaos of Syria for the last 2-3 years even comprehend what has happened to him/her and why - let alone show "remorse and renouncement"?
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Incredible reporting.
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And such courage! The thought of that door clanging shut behind you, to listen to those hopeless and hungry people who far outnumber the guards... I am humbled and awed.
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To receive unbiased news is of fundamental importance. It allows us to arrive at informed decisions. I commend all involved in writing this report.
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