Susan Collins -- are you proud now? Look what you have enabled.
415
@txasslm Susan Collins thrives, because she's one of the boys.
They'd get rid of her if she took the proper stands.
2
I left the Christian faith decades ago because those carrying its banner not only advocated principles antithetical to the teachings of Christ but had also forfeited any moral legitimacy they may have had by the way they lived their own lives. How infinitely sad to see the faith I was taught as a child—one of love, compassion and tolerance, of living a moral life—now being further bastardized, this time into a political weapon.
William Barr professes to be a devout Christian. But here he is, apparently advocating both religious intolerance—establishment of not only his religion but his version of its principles—as well as broad cultural intolerance in the name of supposed religious freedom. And he is doing it from a platform of his own lies, both to the Senate to help assure his own confirmation and to the American public to blunt the effect of the Mueller report. And on top of that, he is apparently weaponizing his version of Christianity for the purpose of promoting the political fortunes of a serial liar and adulterer, one who has no shame, no conscience, one who just days before betrayed his allies with nary a thought to the fact that he was subjecting them to slaughter.
I can’t help but think Barr’s speech was nothing more than the religious equivalent of WorldWide Wrestling. And the saddest part is that like WWW, millions of Americans will watch the show and think it is the gospel truth.
437
@Steel Magnolia What you speak of is Man's religion, not God's.
10
@Steel Magnolia
Barr conflates secularism with atheism. You can believe in the seperation of church and state and at the same time have a strong faith in a particular religion. I do. So did many of the founding fathers. Many of the original settlers fled Europe because they were not able to openly practice their faith. The faiths that we call mainstream in America, Methodism, Baptist, Judaism, Ana-baptist, and some forms of the varied Protestant movement, Catholicism, were considered cultish back in the UK. Disraeli had to convert from his Jewish faith to the CoE if he wanted to be PM. And even though he converted he was still called "the Jew' by his political opponents.
America is not perfect but it is hard to find another country in the world where you have more freedom to practice your individual faith. Or to have no faith at all. And that is exactly what the founders wanted for our country. They did not want an established state religion like England because they saw what the results were. When the state picks a preferred faith it corrupts the State and the Religion.
25
@T.R.I. Believe in some version of "God" all you want, but there is no "religion" without man.
11
I blame Melania for all this. If she just hadn’t pushed her hubby to get off the fence, we’d still be in trouble but not nearly as dire as we are now.
2
There is no God...there is no heaven, because if there was Trump wouldn’t exist.
57
Never ceases to amaze how evangelicals sound no different than the theocratic regimes in places like Iran or even like the Taliban. If you took something said by Barr, Falwell, etc. and simply replaced "God" with "Allah" most evangelicals would immediately declare it the talk of terrorists. Go figure.
100
So now both Barr and Pompeo expect to be raptured?
Very heavy lift, even for God.
60
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
113
Pompeo is also giving fake christian speeches along side Barr.
Both should be thrown out of office and indicted for criminal behavior with regard to the Trump criminal enterprise, the sooner the better.
43
Did Krugman “What I realized is that Donald Trump’s minions have now .....” so he calls Trump’s supporters minions, servile slaves.
Nice going there Mr. Krugman, this is no better than Hillary’s “basket of deplorable’s.
This country can’t be healed with these attitudes and come together again.
9
Too bad AG Barr's boss is devastating on a daily basis the religious values Barr is defending -- as are the apostate Christians bending the knee to a Godlessly corrupt president.
30
The supernatural being who is Trump's co-conspirator may go by many names, but those don't include God or Jesus. Trump's guy offered Jesus a great deal, but Jesus turned it down! Then He preached against the rich and the hypocrites! He forgave his enemies! And finally He was captured, tortured, and crucified! Obviously that makes Jesus a loser in Trump's eyes, and Trump hates losers.
43
Mr. Krugman nailed it again.. all this Bible thumping theater at the rallies of Der Drumph goes to those whose moral compass is stuck on selected Biblical references and not to the true message of Christianity.. love thy neighbor and all are equal before their spirit..
Compassion is can be shown is an evolutionary part of human social behavior.. If you don't practice kindness and neighborliness in tribal life.. you are ousted .. therefore out of the gene pool..
Barr has really gulped the Orange Koolaid
23
The rotten underbelly of this country is more and more exposed by our 'dear leader' and his evangelical followers.
25
It would appear that our AG is just as confused about the separation of church and state as our president. History has clearly established its desirability over the alternative. Our founders were clear in their desire to establish this principle once and for all in this nation. Dictators, Hitler for example, attempted to usurp the church under his reich only to fall. Trump, who resembles Hitler in many ways, would like the same. His total failure to understand faith and basic religious underpinnings will lead to his ultimate demise.
15
To Republicans, the Bible is just like Constitution -- nothing more than a handy tool to manipulate the poorly-educated suckers who never have and never will actually read it.
36
...“render to God and Trump."
Since the "God" referred to is merely the tribal deity of the primitive Israelites, I am confident that I may reject both of them as figments of the imagination of religious zealots.
10
This essay is probably not too confusing to parse; it is merely too predictably boring. CUNY's loss is Princeton's gain.
1
Whose GOD is this anyhow ?
4
In the area of faith, it is always amazing how thick-skulled otherwise intelligent people can be. Sigh...
6
Disturbing, disingenuous. disgusting disBarr
10
I guess Barr forgot how the child abuse scandals of the Catholic and Baptist churches upset the "moral order."
21
October 15, 2019
You your right Dr Krugman when the chosen one DJT is surrounded by those that mistake the Judas kiss as their solemnity to the divine right of America's empire of non fake reality on every subject and everywhere high and forget the low like Baltimore or migrants that are of non justifiable to enter the divine right of an America Great and infinitely proper to the eschatological pursuit non fake happiness with a passport to taxpayers and devotion to him......
2
Bible toting bigots!
What happened to separation of church and state?
15
If these quotes are accurate, how can Barr's anti-constitutional barrage against separation of church and state not be impeachable? The constitution wad based on secularism.
13
Why don't you stick to something you know about? Economics?
6
Shame on you Paul, your callous reference to God offends me. I thought you were smarter than that.
3
I clicked on the link and listened to the 55 seconds of Barr's talk. It's pretty much authoritarian boilerplate accusations. (We're the victims and we must crush the wicked gun-hating secular humanists and their Darwinistic science.) The fact gathering is proceeding in the House. Insiders are testifying. And Barr is lashing out while holding his moral majority blanky to his jowls.
17
Do MAGA types really think that this was the way that America was back when it was "great?" We all worship the superleader and his supergod. We're becoming a sort of cross between Iran and Nazi Germany. Our president is an obvious Manchurian candidate for Russia as evidenced by his pullout in Syria. Trump dragged us all into the Russian mob, something I'd hoped to avoid during my short lifetime but alas...
Nobody knows what to say or do anymore as Trump shows his true colors. Now all of us are tainted by his filth, by Trump's concerted yet secret effort to make America un-apologetically Not Great. Anything for Putin. As for his supposed God, well, Trump's mythological character is obviously Satan himself. Love of big crowds and revenge.
Buckle down everybody. We've entered the land of the proudly absurd where, in fact, we've been since the day the destroyer was elected. Will American voters vote in four more years of Vladimir Putin rule? We'll see. It's anybody's guess.
20
Charles Darwin?
Lock him up!
4
Evangelicals have made a Faustian bargain with the Devil!
They have bastardized the very essence of the teachings of Jesus. In their collective, short-sighted and morally destructive schizophrenia, they support a man who separates kids and puts them in cages.
Evangelicals are crucifying Jesus (and his teachings) everyday and worshiping Trump.
16
Secular democracy contradicts a belief system where god picks the winners and losers. Like the GOP's tax cuts, this works well for those at the top and leaves the rubes that support them holding the bag. Hello white evangelical voters! Abraham Vereide spawned an organization in 1935 that crossed evangelical Christianity with quiet diplomacy while catering to the 1% and turning traditional Christian ideals on their head. The Fellowship(also known as the Family) sponsors National Prayer breakfasts around the world.
The problem with removing non-profit status from religions is that most help the less fortunate in their communities instead of trying to enrich the rich and get religious autocrats elected. They should not be punished for the sins of the few.
Given the number of different religions that have been practiced on our planet the imbecility of insisting there is one true religion/god boggles the mind. Believe it if you must, but leave the rest of us alone.
PS Mob boss? Hello Putin?
8
I find it unbelievable that 80% of the population of a western country still believes in ancient mythologies.
15
Eliminate the religious tax exemption.
22
I never thought I'd miss Jeff Sessions.
"How would we react if the attorney general denounced Catholicism as a force undermining American society?"
Personally, I would be fine with that. Can anyone deny that the Catholic church has caused far more harm in its 2,000 years than all the secularists in all the universe through all of time? The child sexual abuse scandal alone is enough for them to be considered a criminal organization.
10
“Render to God and Trump,” is a reference to the well-known biblical verse, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.” Which seems plausible enough. But, where does pathologically lying, cheating on and divorcing several wives, continuously slandering people, trying to coerce foreign governments into election interference, destroying the environment, family separation, and being an unabashed bigot, fit into the evangelical paradigm of the Christian ideal?
I suspect that many of these white evangelicals are essentially racist xenophobes and use religion as a cover for their prejudice. And their savior Trump aka Jefferson Davis is their last Great White Hope for the Lost Cause of the Confederacy.
11
Remember Monica Goodling of the GW Bush administration? She was found to be hiring lawyers at Justice, insuring their credentials included Christianity -- several had degrees from the same uncertified Christian law school -- and loyalty to the president and his party. Oh yeah: And the scandal that the White House seemed to be encouraging re-staffing Justice for a wave of cases targeting Democratic law-makers.... In that non-fight, of course, Congress (and the media) gave Republicans a 'pass' with tiny wrist-slaps all around....
7
Wm. Barr is an Opus Dei cult princeling who loves power plays.
8
Anyone thinking Trump is compatible with the teachings of Jesus would very quickly learn otherwise if they read what Jesus commanded his followers.
248
I agree with Attorney General Barr and he makes a lot of sense. Those who are religious feel they are under attack. Beto O'Rourke wants to strip churches of their tax exempt status if they do not approve of same sex marriage. And he is not the only one.
Those who are religious affiliated such as the Little Sisters of the Poor were forced to provide contraception within their healthcare insurance or they would be hit with large fines. They went before the court and it is still not over. No one should be forced to go against their religious beliefs but that is what the secularists are trying to make them do. They will never succeed in forcing their liberal views because people will revolt.
You cannot make people believe something that is contrary to their principles. They will fight tooth and nail to hold on to their beliefs and will win.
87
@KMW
Christianity at its beginning used to bring people into the fold by emphasizing its attractive aspects, such as an afterlife in Paradise. Over my lifetime, however, Christians in this country seem to think their religion gives them the right to discriminate against people whose beliefs they do not share.
Based on my knowledge of Scripture, the Bible nowhere forbids birth control, either explicitly or implicitly, and the Little Sisters of the Poor, as part of the Catholic Church, are simply practicing a religion made up by that organization.
Religion and politics need to be separate, and our founders knew this. If religious organizations want to get involved in politics, then they deserve to lose their tax-exempt status.
Secular humanists like myself quite frankly don't care what you believe. We will not, however, allow you to impose your beliefs on the rest of us. We will fight you tooth and nail on that one, and we have the law on our side, blatherings by William Barr to the contrary.
1486
@KMW Why should Churches not pay taxes if they make their mission political advocacy? No one's forcing you to do anything. The point is, preventing you from forcing other people to live as you wish. This is a secular country, and what you're describing sounds like a Christian theocracy.
932
@KMW I am a Christian. I go to church every week. I attend a bible study group every week. I support my church's kindergarten financially, and I tithe. Both my husband and I give our tithes to demonstrate our commitment to God. As called upon by the Holy Spirit, we also give to charities, such as SAT-7 and others, because we are part of those called upon to gather the harvest. Do I feel that there are folks out there who vilify Christians? Absolutely. Who want to use the institutions to suppress my beliefs? Frequently. But do I then turn around and be God by deciding whether or not I get to decide to tear down existing institutions? No. Because Jesus said, give unto Caesar what belongs to him. The rest of us, children of God, pray for our institutions and our leaders. And we trust God to lead the way. When we try to play God is when we are at our weakest. AG Barr is trying to play God. He's not co-opting God. But using His name to justify his own motives. That's blasphemy. Blessed are the meek. That's Lesson One if you remember Sunday School. Jesus never blessed those who try to fight on His behalf. Peter was chided for slicing off the ear of the Roman soldier in defense of his Lord. God does not need our help. He needs us to listen and be in sync with Him. Talk less. Listen more to Him. Not to the radios, or the TVs, or the news media, or even the so-called pastors of the mega churches who are more interested in power than in piety.
529
You are wrong.
Are we a nation of bigots? The jury is out. Trump's white identity nativism has a strong appeal. The salient question being put to the test in 2020 is whether we are a nation divided by our differences or united because of them.
2
I can remember when these same evangelicals were interviewing Kennedy who was Catholic and asking will he follow the Constitution and not the Catholic Church. And his eloquent reply was of course. Evidently they have joined forces with the Catholics to make our govrermnet a theocracy. I can remember when the evangelicals were interviewing Kennedy who was Catholic and asking will he follow the Constitution and not the Catholic Church. And his eloquent reply was of course. Evidently, they have joined forces with the Catholics to make our government a theocracy and the AG Barr seems to be on their team. When do we ask him if he supports the Constitution over his religion?
3
As an atheist-leaning agnostic, raised Catholic (who can still say his altar boy's 'prayers at the foot of the altar' in the Latin he has never understood), and an attorney with a J.D. 'from' a Jesuit university …
1. I believe in the freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean anyone or any institution has to invite a creep like barr to speak.
2. I'm still, 'culturally,' a Brooklyn-Irish Catholic (with a quarter-splash of Genoan that none of my Italo-American childhood friends 'rate' as making me at all, or 'in any respect,' Italian) -- so I'm embarrassed that Notre Dame invited barr to speak at its law school. (I like to think that if Father Hesburgh were 'still here' and 'still there,' he'd have 'suggested' the choice of a different speaker.)
3. Given the Notre Dame 'invite of' barr, I'm happy to report -- to any readers who might think that it is … that Notre Dame is NOT a Jesuit university.
6
I try to live my life with respect for Jesus’ primary message which I interpret to be compassion and charity for all, with avoidance of bias, bigotry and hatred. With my education concentrating on physics and engineering which includes two MIT masters degrees, I reject supernatural beliefs. Jesus, Einstein, and Newton were remarkable human beings. Supernatural beliefs are unverified myths. Guided by Espinosa, I believe God is Nature, and Nature is God and our Universe is bound by the laws of physics. I don’t accept personal gods. I have no problems with mainstream religions, which comfort many people. I have no use for the Old Testament god who supports slavery, bigotry, polygamy and genocide.
10
Oh, my, the desperation of the Republicans is taking more and more sinister turns. God help us if the win the election. Mr. Krugman is right. This should scare us.
Embracing religion when you are not religious is blatantly using the religious to get their votes as if they were sheep and it is designed to send them to the slaughterhouse.
7
If Barr feels that secular and liberal America is "conspiring to destroy the “traditional moral order"" I hope he is not holding out either his actions or those of trump as "traditional moral order". As Dr. Krugman aptly points out trump is the least godly man to ever occupy the WH. So Barr and trump can wrap themselves up in the shroud of Turin and the American flag for all I care, it will not save them from the freight train that is the impeachment hearings. No liar is ever safe from the truth.
6
I would think Notre Dame, the first law school to have Catholic affiliation would be an appropriate place to talk about God's role in peoples' lives. Why does the pendulum have to swing from one extreme to the other in media-land?
5
In the words of Monty Python, "No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition" but apparently Barr is planning on it and working mightily to destroy separation of church and State allowing a "divine" kleptocracy where we are all forced to tithe and suffer. Barr must be the first forced out to prevent judicial branch protections to the criminal GOP.
5
If evangelicals want to expose those responsible for people "turning away from 'christianity,' they should look in a mirror.
What people are turning from is not the teachings of Jesus. People are turning from those who try to sell ignorance, bigotry and hatred as "Christianity."
9
It's easy.
Stay out of politics and keep your tax exempt status.
Keep government out of religion, and religion out of government and both will be better off and less corrupt.
7
As a very recent convert to a Greek Orthodoxy after fifty plus years as a pretty hard core atheist, I agree as usual with Dr. Krugman. My new faith has made me more progressive, not less. It strictly honors separation of church and state, despite doctrinal positions on abortion and homosexuality quite similar to those of Roman Catholicism. Our priests can’t even vote, much less preach hate from their pulpits.
So be assured: there are MANY Christians in this country who are also true patriots and actually understand the First Amendment. Not all are Harvard-trained lawyers, either, which I happen to be.
I cannot say this any more clearly; I will defend to the death the right of atheists to be atheists, and fight with my last ounce of energy against all efforts to break down the wall of separation that does and should exist in our country. Because that would be the truly Christian thing to do.
These people purporting to be Christians in supporting the Orange Excrescence, his puppet-masters and minions, are the opposite. They are the instruments of Satan on this earth, and I wouldn’t want to be in any their shoes come the Judgment Day in which I now heartily and hopefully believe. Nor am I arrogant. I’ve sins of my own for which to answer, mostly denying God, and may join them if He deems my repentance insufficient. I can accept that, so long as they get theirs too.
6
I can't help think of the Saudi Royal Families funding madrassas in exchange for being left alone with their wealth and control of the economy. Seems to be the deal many of our oligarch class are making.
7
Trumpian supporters are made up an amalgam of ultra-rightists, evangelicals and those who feel disaffected or those who are really effected by widening economical gap. Anti elitist sentiments are also being fanned as election strategy. All this makes it very likely that we will get continuation of present morass for few more years!
I know there are evangelicals who truly believe that Jesus preached love and tolerance because I've met them. Some of them are my in-laws.
But what Barr is preaching is nothing like a message in the New Testament. It is all self-righteous intolerance of his "enemies"-- his compatriots who, in openly acknowledging their skeptical views about religion, are doing far more to defend our constitutional right to believe as we choose than our nation's Attorney General is.
Barr has made it clear from the start of his tenure that he has no interest in serving as Attorney General for the people of the United States. His only loyalty is to his boss (and, possibly to his priest, although I've met Catholic priests who I'm sure were appalled by Barr's speech.)
Asking the House of Representatives to start a second impeachment inquiry is asking a lot of them. But if ever a man deserved impeachment for subverting the constitution, William Barr is that man.
18
Ethics, moral and acts of loving kindness toward all people and living things are the underpinnings of all religious faiths. The first monotheistic faith, Judaism is the basis and foundation for both Christianity and Islam. Regular attendance at religious services does not correlate in any to these attitudes or behaviors. Some of the most violent, hateful and criminal behaviors are committed among religions. Barr is violating his oath to serve the American people by defending and upholding the immoral and criminal behavior of trump. He deserves to be impeached and disbarred, in my opinion. Apparently, Mr. Barr does not know the definition of the word “ chutzpah”, which his speech exemplifies so perfectly.
6
Throughout most of history, religious bigotry ( a bit of a pleonasm, that) has been a useful tool. Short-term, that is, but self-serving leaders never think long-term.
But fortunately, atheism grows in the US because, among other reasons, more and more people are now at last realizing the consequences of bigotry.
Not just in the US : for all its horrid malfeasance, ISIS is actually helping atheists in the Middle East, who now point out what godliness can wreak.
Of course, one must agree with Mr. Krugman that Barr's words are the crudest form of diversion-through-religion. Unfortunately, in terms of effectiveness, the cruder the better.
Secularism is the separation of the State from religion.
It is a basic essential for building the big tent of an open and inclusive society.
Everyone gains from a secular society because we are all equal under its laws and there is a place for all of us in it.
A secular society is not our enemy, it is our friend.
Religion begins with the assumption there is at least one god in the Universe.
Atheism is the assumption there is no god in the Universe.
Barr is doing what Republicans do best - slicing and dicing society and then delivering highly-tuned messages disconnected from the facts and designed to distort reality, manipulate perceptions and opinions in order to deliver voting outcomes.
Barr’s intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking.
He is seeking to weaponise religion and a foundation element of the Constitution in support of a corrupt and totalitarian President by manufacturing division, distrust and enmity.
As I write this, my atheist, scientist brain is thinking of an acquaintance whom I admire as much as any other person in the world.
He is a committed and humble Christian who trained in the scientific discipline of medicine.
Instead of occupying a well-paid job in the New Zealand health care system, he has spent his life working for nothing as a frontline doctor in Zambia funded by the generosity of fellow Christians.
He walks in the steps of Jesus and seeks to create a better world.
Our goals are the same.
Let us rediscover the things that unite.
7
@Prometheus
Let's be honest here: there ARE atheists who had such a bad experience with the religion they grew up with that they end up hating all religions, and wanting to destroy them all.
Those are the "militants" Barr was referring to (although his function as AG requires him to remain neutral instead).
This kind of atheists imagines that "absence of proof is proof of absence", in other words, falsely imagines that if we can't scientifically prove the existence of a god, then there must be no god - forgetting that the only RATIONAL way to state that there is no god is to prove that statement, something no atheist/scientist has ever been able to do.
So from a rational point of view, we should all be agnostics first, as (Catholic) Bruno Latour argues: we do not know (= scientific proof) whether a god exists or not. And that is precisely why politically and constitutionally, we need the freedom to decide to believe that there is or that there isn't any god. No government should ever impose one or the other belief.
As a consequence, it' the AG's job to remember this, rather than to attack one group of people as "immoral", based on their idea about the existence of a god alone.
Because it's his job to defend the Constitution, NOT the fears of one or the other sub-group ... as he was clearly doing here.
At the same time, however, we atheists should recognize the fact THAT there are atheists who hate religions. They're wrong. That too should be admitted.
1
This is practically straight out of "The Handmaid's Tale." What Barr is railing against is the inevitable decline of the patriarchy. Patriarchy derives its legitimacy--such as it is--from religion, which places God and, specifically, men, in charge.
As more people become disillusioned with organized religion and pursue their faith and spiritual fulfillment elsewhere. As more and more women, LGBTQIA people, people of color, and other social groups who have not traditionally been placed at the center of power claim their rightful places in society, patriarchy loses more of its stranglehold on our societies, our economies, our communities, and our entire way of life.
We are witnessing the gasping, spitting rage of patriarchy in decline, almost literally. Bloated, angry, embittered, older wealthy (and mostly white) men with entirely too much power and money doing whatever they can to reverse an unstoppable trend. Their backlash--by virtue of their wealth and power--may yet exact an enormous cost on humanity and Earth, but it won't likely stop the inevitable.
Even in "The Handmaid's Tale," which daily feels more and more prescient, Gilead fell because it was, at its very heart, fraudulent and broken.
There's a reason why many of the only buildings left standing from bygone civilizations were the palaces and the temples. Religion in much of the world is a tool of political power and control, and always has been.
13
I'm a Krugman fan, but I'm sorry... statements like this:
"There is a substantial minority of Americans with whom warnings about sinister secularists resonate. But they are a minority. Over all, we’re clearly becoming a more tolerant nation, one in which people have increasingly positive views of others’ religious beliefs, including atheism."
don't ring true to me. I lived for 20 years in New York City, and a few years in Berkeley, California, so I lived safely in my liberal bubble. But I grew up in Tennessee and frequently came home during those 20 years and saw the number of people who supported George Bush Jr., the Iraq war, etc. I could think my ideas and have my friends in New York and Berkeley, but I was not unaware that much of the country thought and voted differently. The number of people who believe in Trump, W, and God is far more than people in the New York/San Francisco/Boulder etc. bubble want to believe. You just have to take a trip out of those areas to see that most of the people in the nation align themselves with religious or Republican "values." I'm not condemning those values (except I can't see how they support Trump), but I think it is a misstep to say that there is a "substantial minority." I think there are many people who are under the radar or don't respond to polls. Look at how horribly wrong the polls were about the Clinton/Trump election. And are we really becoming more tolerant? I wish we were, but it seems we're sliding backward.
3
Religion has always been used by the powerful through history, --either by church rulers over countries, or by modern politicians after voting rights began---to manipulate and control the masses, through appealing to divine authority or to fear.
We see with Barr’s absurd speech a throwback to past eras. One of many throwbacks in the Trump regime.
While the US more church goers than other modern democracies, it also has enough citizens to see this manipulation realistically, to resist this blatant threat to our Constitution. One of many threats to resist.
4
Anyone else remember when JFK had to fight the perception (mostly by Protestants) that his Christian faith would make him bow to the will of the Pope?
JFK reassured us by saying "I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic party's candidate for president, who happens also to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me"
Our president, AG, and others need to serve Americans of all faiths - not just the 41% evangelical Christian minority.
11
The richest institutions on the earth are the religious shrines no matter what you call them-churches,temples,mosques & synagogues with tax exemptions including funds from governments for their paltry charitable interests and works. Taking away tax exempt statuses is not a bad idea when governments are facing massive budget deficits.
2
The founding fathers were largely what you'd call secular militants -- free thinkers who were rebelling against autocratic rule by God or King. Trump, the self-proclaimed "chosen one" wants to be both and some people seem determined to let him.
8
@Citizen-of-the-World: The conception that consent of the governed should be sought via execution of a public contract was the most revolutionary feature of the American Revolution. It entirely dispensed with any resort to divinity to legitimize government.
3
Some point to 1789 as one of the most secular times in American history. Good for us.
3
Thank you, and praises, to the New York Times for printing these opinions. I don't agree with some of them, but I am proud to be a reader of a publication that prints ALL views civilly and coherently.
7
When it gets to polygamy, paying taxes to support the government, refusing military service based on the specific conflict, or using prohibited drugs as a religious experience, I will want to hear Barr's opinion on the right of religious exemption from public policy.
2
are secularists forcing their beliefs on religious folks, or are religious folks forcing their beliefs on secularists?
And the idea that jesus christ is on donald trump's team is laughable. Any christian that supports him is a fake. He makes a mockery of our faith every day. He is the least christian person I have ever seen...
21
If you see something, say something: Barr has flipped his lid.
10
The U.S. Attorney General is politicking in the guise of priest-preacher-rabbi against progressives-Satan-Democrats. The person being paid to secure secular justice for All of The People is proselytizing his party's "right" religion. It's way beyond non-professional conduct; it's Constitutional depravity.
The Federalist Society, already a bastion of keepers for one-party rule, lost any semblance of dedication to American democracy when its members went along with William P. Barr's abdication of duty when laws pertain to a president of his stripe. Now, its members ignore this full-blown tribal witch doctor dance at University of Notre Dame Law School. Espousing a favored brand of piety to young lawyers, William P. Barr is a shameless recruiter for next generation, partisan head hunters.
"If Barr’s speech is any indication, their strategy is to make God their boss’s co-conspirator." Mr Krugman has this administration's and its party's number down cold. People who know better are being manipulated by the pressing of the emotional buttons tied to their faith in God. The strategy is to build-up an army of con men to drum-up moral outrage and to heap it upon the opposition party.
William P. Barr, U.S. AG, is going down in history as one sick puppy.
8
I read many comments, and I find surprising all the hate and negative comments from readers. Mr Barr is an honest man who says what many think, namely that the absence of faith often leads to the undoing of a society.
It’s true that one doesn’t have to believe in God to be moral, but then, why most replies reflect more from a place of hate than a place of acceptance. I think to have the best values is to raise our children to follow laws, shoulder responsibilities. When you accuse a man such as Mr Barr of all evils, you show the very intolerance you accuse him of.
6
I grew up an evangelist but it abandoned me. The evangelical church no longer represent my views. I am convinced that Jesus would be horrified at what is happening in the christian evangelical church.
13
It’s not just Evangelicals! It’s conservative Christians of all denominations who believe they have the right, no, duty, to inflict their twisted theology on the rest of us. In my neck of the woods, it is conservative Catholics who are rabidly pro-Trump. And there are plenty of conservative Christians in mainline churches as well. Priests and pastors who have embraced this kind of flawed thinking are in a pickle, because even if they now internally recoil at Trump’s behavior, to admit they were wrong is to call into question how much they “really” hear from God, and that’s the whole game for them. Maybe they should all follow Pat Robertson’s lead and say that Trump has lost his mandate from Heaven. No one in their right mind could ever believe Trump had that, but if it allows conservatives to end their crazy and hypocritical support for this regime, I am all for it.
4
Why did Bob Barr lie on behalf of an amoral Trump when summarizing Mueller's finding? Is that best explained as the fault of secular progressives or of Barr not practicing what he pretends to preach.
4
Anyone who believes in preposterous mythologies is not qualified to hold a governmental position.
8
they’ve got trump in the WH and he’s lecturing _us_ on the decline of morality?
15
We see the various, deliberate distortion of our Constitution by extreme conservatives. They contradict church/state separation, that upheld secular freedom in our history.
Yet now religion has more influence in US politics, than in many EU nations that better maintain that separation --even though they had state religions and monarchies not that long ago.
As PK says, "European nations are far less religious than we are; they also have much lower homicide rates." Yes, due to acceptance of strict gun laws. And add that they've had health care for all for generations.
Krugman should mention they also don't turn their elections over to wealthy corporate donors for financing--they keep limits on private money, and use more public financing.
Our 1st Amendment is distorted by our supreme court, pretending any limits to mega donor money in our elections is anti Free Speech.
Our 2nd Amendment is distorted by our political class, pretending it justifies guns for all everywhere, ignoring its explicit phrase--- 'well regulated militia'. Then politicians take gun maker donor money.
So our Constitution is used against the citizen majority, in favor of the wealthy and powerful, undermining the democracy it was created for.
Is this what the colonies overthrew King George and his aristos for? Our wealthy donor class are our 21st C privileged 'aristocrats', using the religious- right for power.
Can we ---to paraphrase Dr. King-- live up to the true meaning of our creed?
4
Religious beliefs, like sexual proclivities, are an intensely personal and private matter that should be treated with the same degree of discretion. Discussing either publicly is unnecessary and offensive.
10
@Pauline Mott
The only way for a democracy to thrive is to have real, respectful debates.
It's absurd to imagine that religions wouldn't have ideas on how to live "the good life", together as a society, and as they have, we HAVE to accept to discuss those ideas publicly.
The Constitution doesn't ask us to censor all religious discourse, it asks us to RESPECT it - as discourse, all while not allowing the government to take sides and start to endorse one point of view on the notion of "god" all while officially attacking another one.
"Officially" and "publicly" are NOT the same thing.
We need OFFICIAL neutrality, in order to be able to discuss all worldviews PUBLICLY.
That's what a democracy is all about.
1
The constitution wisely says that congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion. Therefore we have no state sanctioned religion. Barr seems to be in favor of sanctioning Christianity as the official religion of the country. Obviously unconstitutional. Also whose Christianity? How did waving a flag become a Christian activity. When did being a so called pro life Christian also favor throwing toddlers and babies in kiddie jails without their parents.? When did opposing free school lunches and food stamps become Christian? Unfortunately Trumps Christians along with Fox news devotees have made themselves into an easy target for corruption and turned God’s good name into a joke.
6
Barr is wrong and seems to be ignorant of the Constitution and the religious values of those who wrote it. The Bible is violent and intolerant and factually wrong. For some examples of many, read Numbers 31 for a lesson in the righteousness of genocide and slavery of young women (virgins). Read 1 Kings 7:23 and 2 Chronicles 4:2 to learn that the number we call pi is actually three. Or for a funny story read 2 Kings 2:23-25.
People who read this sort of stuff and believe it are superstitious, intolerant and worse, prone to violence. It is a ridiculous book, full of this sort of malarkey. To think it provides some sort of guide to wisdom and morality is absurd.
5
@J Chaffee
I forgot to add this scripture for an example of tolerance in the Bible. Read I Kings 18:16-40.
1
Judged by history God is not only not our "copilot", (s)he isn't even on our are side. Ignoring BC wars, the Christian/Muslim world has seen hundreds of millions of war-related deaths perpetrated by "good" Christians and Muslims. Spain alone, that "good" Catholic nation, killed over 30,000,000 Aztecs and Incas during the invasion of North and South America.Europe fought many religious wars through the 13-17th centuries, including the horrific Thirty Years War in 17th century Europe where more than 8,000,000 were killed.The India and Pakistan are still at it in India and Kashmir. "God help us and Mr. Barr as well. But she hasn't been of help if history is any Judge or Attorney General.
4
@diderot You omit the ethnic cleansing of the native Americans by the very pious Anglo Pilgrims.
3
Why note rate Trump's behavior on a regular basis as to whether it is consistent with the teaching of his (?) religious affiliation, or of those to whom he appeals at some given moment, or of one's own affiliation. Just as patriotism is more than saying "Make America great," religion is more than holding up a "We're number one" sign. It has content, revealed by behavior. If Trump and his supporters wish to invoke religion, let's hold them to it.
I am beyond sick of so-called "Christians" using their faith to justify Trump, as though he is the "third coming." In 1796, the founders decided specifically not to build a Christian nation, but one that accepted all religions.
My Jewish grandparents and two great-grandparents emigrated to the United States fleeing religious persecution. People of many other faiths have done the same.
Everyone, religious or not, has moral standards, some much higher than others. We should be concerned with the highest moral standards, not the standards of one religion.
7
First, let's stop calling evangelicals "Christians." Most are not. They disdain gays, but say nothing about divorce because too many of them are on their second or third marriage. They disdain abortion, but cry "welfare queen" if a single mom needs help. They don't love their neighbor unless the neighbor goes to the same church. The say "praise God" at every turn, but slap their wallet shut when they see an outreached hand. They preach compassion, but are the first to want tax cuts and benefits cuts. They preach peace, but are the first to line up waving the flag and banging the drums of war. If only evangelicals lived their values, more people would follow Christ. Christ-like people are quiet in their devotion, generous to those in need, compassionate to those who have problems, respectful of other views, tolerant, welcoming, good people. Don't look for them in the evangelical churches...you won't find many there.
21
Trump is definitely acting in an un-Christian and un-Constitutional fashion, yet he wraps himself in the flag and God as if they can be meted out by him, and him alone. And Barr is currently his chief disciple at The Worst Supper.
My conscience no longer permits me to call the vast majority of these people who support him in the name of the Christian religion to be Christians, given just how much their philosophy goes against the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. I must regretfully call them Christianists--people who use the language and trappings of the Christian religion to promote an agenda decidedly counter to it.
Could I be wrong about the Christian stuff? Sure. I mean, I'm Jewish.
Oddly enough, so was Jesus of Nazareth.
8
One also has to understand that when people like Falwell Jr., and, apparently, William Barr denounce secularism the unstated denouncement is really "every religion that isn't mine."
And that is exactly why the separation of church and state needs to be upheld
12
Francis Story, an English Buddhist, commented that there are two different kinds of religious faith: (1) the faith which is supported by reason and cherishes facts & evidence; (2) the faith that defies reason, and willfully ignore facts & evidence.
Americans are some of the most religious people in the world, according to PEW survey. Most of them are in camp #2, they subscribe to the faith that defies reason, and they despise facts & evidence.
Darwinism? Never mind.
Trumpism? Barrism? Definitely.
4
Mark Twain: “If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.”
Anyone so confused as to be incapable of distinguishing between the realms of church and state, who believes that every waking moment is monitored by a supernatural being, who believes that Donald Trump was sent by God doesn’t deserve to live in a democracy. They confuse democracy with theocracy, and if that enamored with theocracy, perhaps they should seek a country that is a real theocracy like Saudi Arabia or Sudan.
The evangelicals are a cult, and deserve the suspicion with which you would treat any cult. That they are in our midst is a function of democracy and I afford them the right to worship inside their church. But when they claim that their religion propels them to demand that everyone believe what they believe – that’s an affront to democracy and to my freedom.
But I state the obvious. And I’m not without a tiny bit of compassion for these working-class people whose lives have been shredded by capitalism (yet another religion) leaving them desperate and looking for answers. But they have turned their human agency and power over to superstition and willfully play the victim rather than people who truly possess freedom.
Consequently they are easy marks for people like Barr, Pence, and Trump who weaponize religion in the pursuit of power – for power is religion’s true name. All of religion’s doctrine, ritual, and practices are a veil to disguise the real god of mankind: power.
8
As far as I'm concerned, Trump wrote the book on "sacrilege". He exhibits a profane disregard for all things sacred (whether as trivial as not driving a golf cart on the putting green, or as critically important as defending and preserving our democracy). I view him as the antichrist, and his legal advisers and cabinet as his disciples.
6
Any contemporary observer of American culture can see a moral degradation seeping into every aspect of of national life.
The parallel rise of secularism and atheism coupled with the loss of faith cannot be viewed as a mere coincidence.
5
@JOHNNY CANUCK Why not? Correlation is not necessarily causation.
7
@JOHNNY CANUCK: Reasoning people reject being force-fed faith-based beliefs.
5
How about this?
Any contemporary observer of American culture can see a moral degradation seeping into every aspect of of national life.
The parallel rise of xenophobia and white nationalism coupled with Donald Trump’s presidency cannot be viewed as a mere coincidence.
10
Self-righteous religious zealotry has no place in our government and AG Barr is way out of bounds on this one. Last night I happened to see an excellent film called For They Know Not What They Do which explores the anti gay sentiment which runs deeply in the evangelical community. One of the couples featured lost there son when he spiraled downward into drug addiction after his family (and he) were unable to reconcile his homosexuality. We need more understanding and acceptance of our differences not religious fanaticism that stands in the way bringing us together. Separation of church and state is a foundation of our democracy.
7
The ROTTEN ones know exactly what they're doing and they must be stopped in this country.
This country will implode if we fail to prevent religion & race to influence our education system and public policy. It has reached its worst point since civil war of 1860s.
Racism & other forms of bigotry, mostly based on distorted understanding of truth & reality, are closely connected to religion, where Arab-African looking Jesus (as per researchers) was transformed into blue eyed blond man of Scandinavian descent.
Now USA is the worst among all 35 most industrialized countries surveyed in terms of percentage of college students who "strongly believe"in intelligent design or creationism, and don't believe in hard science of evolution. It's probably the worst in our own recent history, even compared to the days of 1920s Scoped trial. Transformation of our higher education system into just another for-profit industry made the situation worse.
Recent medical research show that (blind) religious allegiance affect the same part of our brain (frontal lobe), which is also affected by drugs. Early exposure to it seem to make the situation worse, just like any addictive drug.
It's also been proved that religion needs royal/government patronage to spread or even to survive. Influence of religion would diminish significantly, if not die its natural death, in a free thinking open society.
Only a candid, honest, and factual dialogue among people would be one of the best ways to cure the curse of racism around the world and in our own country if we like to prosper.
5
"If Barr’s speech is any indication, their strategy is to make God their boss’s co-conspirator."
Clever and superb writing once again by Dr. Krugman.
Perhaps one logical extension would be:
God is his (Trump's) "un-indictable" co-conspirator.
It's election time and who will win? Ask yourself who is employing the most effective psychological manipulations of the public's minds using the psychlops? Who is the focus of both parties and how are they being manipulated to win favor or sympathy for their party? Now we are subjected to the most basic manipulation of our deepest instinct; religion.
I simply will not choose a side, or vote for anyone. An unpopular vote perhaps, but the elections are corrupt.
Reading this I have to wonder what is really going though the AG's mind as he was giving that speech. Whatever you may think of him he is not stupid. He knows what he is saying and he knows it is contrary his position in government.
Sometimes it seems that he and the rest of Trump's supporters (conspirators?) are truly preparing for an authoritarian regime to take control. Why else would they open themselves to such well deserved criticism and put their legacies at risk unless they are preparing to rewrite history and the rule book?
I don't want to believe it but I can't ignore it.
6
@BC - I agree: It seems very likely that at least some of these Republicans who are so obviously stomping on our Constitution are doing so in the belief that we will soon have an autocratic government.
2
Religion was invented to control people. Religion is a powerful means of controlling society. How many wars have been fought "...with God on our side"? Over the centuries, more people have been killed under the banner of 'religion' than any other cause.
Trump, Barr and Pompeo all use religion to control. Or do you really believe that a thrice married philanderer and narcissist like Donald Trump believes in a God other than himself? Pompeo rallies the Evangelicals, who eschew science and education and live in their simplistic world of Bible interpretation. Barr is simply a cynic along for the ride. None of these boys are ever going to heaven.
5
Even more frighteningly than Krugman lays out, I think Bill Barr actually believes the unconstitutional nonsense he was spouting at Notre Dame. Mike Pompeo appears to be equally deranged by religious fervor. That two self-proclaimed devout men could be ardent defenders of a patently criminal, lying, amoral serial philanderer and sexual assaulter gives the lie to any notion that religion is an essential foundation for ethical conduct. They are enablers of a deeply flawed and "sinful" man who is causing harm to millions of people, and accelerating the destruction of the planet. I'm a lifelong non-believer, and consider kindness, compassion, and integrity to be the highest virtues. I don't need a bible to tell me that.
7
Here's the bottom line................
Both parties are suspect in each others deaths. Everyone is playing hot potato with blame to manipulate voters before the election. It was a hot summer and fall here. My ear is still to the rail, and after 32 years, no one tried to shut it down. It's the military or C.I.A. yelling. Who else would have gotten away with it for 32 years since Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade left office after decades including investigating the Kennedy killing there? Focus on the Bush's. I understand Giuliani's comment.
Is it surprising that those who fervently believe in ancient magical stories, who demand submission to power, who want to limit their morals to that of ancients, would be Trump supporters?
4
As the Nobel Laureate Stephen Weinberg said: "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
6
I was attacked by the militant secularists. I didn't hear Barr's speech, but I think Paul Krugman would be a better political analyst if he were to find a way to embrace a little Christian humility ...
2
Did Barr ever read the Constitution? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;". Barr didn't do anything 'illegal' but he did advocate a position contrary to the Constitution. Disgraceful!
4
@dave just because Washington believed in his ideas of god and religion, doesn’t mean he thought others who believe in other way or not at all were trying to destroy the moral compass of the country. 
If his intended audience was evangelical whites, he chose the wrong venue. Notre Dame is hardly a bastion of such.
1
As I read this column, I thought of the old movie "Oh God." A supermarket assistant manager, Jerry Landers (John Denver), receives a visit from God (George Burns). During the movie, there appears several times a loudmouth televangelist "preaching for more money to spread the Word of God."
Burns comments, "You take these answers [I've given you, Jerry] and give them to Reverend Big Mouth and you say that God says he's a phony.
"And also tell him, if he wants to get rich, fine, tell him to sell earth shoes.
"But, personally, tell him, I'd like him to shut up."
Barr and his televangelist are the modern "Reverend Big Mouth." Unfortunately, Trump thinks he's God.
1
"If that kind of talk doesn’t scare you, it should; it’s the language of witch hunts and pogroms."
It's the language of Fascism.
2
It seems to me that Barr's comments is directed towards feminists and the #metoo movement. Specifically, he is addressing the abuse of white men in the workplace by feminists that is upending the traditional men as breadwinner role in the family and society. You now have men who no one wants to marry because they can't get a job or have a low paying one. The result is, as Barr stated, "rising mental illness, drug dependence and violence." I am very concerned that the author of the opinion piece did not address or even recognize this important issue.
1
Faith is no more principled than a lack of faith.
1
This proselytizing of ancient folk tales and puerile moral lessons as the inerrant word of god as found in their holy Bible is chilling in its depiction of an ignorance so vast that it posits a magical friend in the sky as the life director in chief of the entire world - except for those born beyond the Occidental realms where the miracles of the Christ are only whispered. The denial of death, an inherent instinct in sapiens, has a foolish basis in fairy tales and ego identification. It is time to set aside childish things or face a future where 7 year old chillin' are dropping nuclear instruments of Armageddon's conclusion.
1
For me, the destruction of religion very organized. Organized by the bishops and cardinals, who as Gods's representatives and leaders of the church, willfully presided over the abuse of thousands and thousands of innocent people. So, yeah, Mr. Barr, you're right, it was very organized.
1
Read this very piece and tell me this isn't true:
"This is not decay. This is organized destruction. Secularists and their allies have marshaled all the forces of mass communication, popular culture, the entertainment industry, and academia in an unremitting assault on religion & traditional values."
What about your bigotry, Mr. Krugman? I am so sick and tired of being labeled by the NYT because of my faith.
3
".............So the efforts of Trump’s henchmen to use the specter of secularism to distract people from their boss’s sins probably won’t work. ........."
That's right.
Justice delayed is never Justice denied. It always rears the guilty's head.
To be, or not be, guilty, will be rendered upon Caesar.
The nation is the venue in which judgement will be decided. Not in a closed secret Courtroom. How will the psychlops present it?
Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is the last refuge of rabble rousers.
Who elevated Bill Barr to the office of Pope? I'd prefer he would stick to doing a competent job as the nation's Attorney General and leave the lectures on morality to his betters. I seriously doubt Pope Francis would endorse even half of what Barr asserts.
1
I do not believe that ethical behavior is the result of religion.
Just the reverse, morality and ethics are part of human DNA. You can watch young children, with no knowledge of religion, make moral choices.
People look at their own religion, and want to believe it is the basis of all that's good. Impossible. The world is full of religions. The religions themselves are an expression of human nature.
All we really need is the Golden Rule. It's universal. Unfortunately, it is broken more than followed.
That's why we need something like an attorney general. Unfortunately, he can't follow it either.
2
@Patrick Hunter: The Hillel Golden Rule avoids the expectation of reciprocation in kind implied by "do unto others". One complies with Hillel's variation by not doing to others what one does not want done to oneself.
My daughter had an interesting theory about God taking "sides" with the fanatical Christian cult. We recently read a letter from an individual - whom we know personally - who put in writing that God is on her side, that those of us who turn our backs on her president are hell-bent. We are sinners, damned by every "liberal" action we endorse. My daughter looked at me and said, "Mom, this is guilt. And she calls on God as her witness because "he" can not argue with her." This new christian god, neither word deserving to be capitalized, is the shield, the wall, the protector of every bigoted and racist bone in their bodies. Now, when it comes to Barr, he, too, is a lost cause, a puppet of another puppet named Trump. Lastly, I did not say this, but one commenter for another op ed contributor did. I hope she is reading this because it is to her credit. With insight to be admired, she asked, "How many pages did they have to rip from their bible to board the Trump Train."
5
Oh the nasty history of 'secularism', which violates the Fundamental Law of MegaChurch Americanism.
From FacingHistory.org:
"[T]he Nazi leadership supported the German Christian movement, ... [who were] Protestants who wanted to combine Christianity and National Socialism into a movement “that would exclude all those deemed impure ... in a spiritual homeland, ... the Third Reich.” The Nazi[s] urged Protestants to unite all regional churches into a national church under ... Ludwig Müller... who was appointed as Reich bishop... By January 1934, Müller was vowing to purge Protestant churches of all “Jewish influence,” including removing the Old Testament from their bible . . . A public appeal released by German Christian leaders claimed that “the eternal God created for our nation a law that is peculiar to its own kind. It took shape in the Leader Adolf Hitler, and in the National Socialist state created by him. This law speaks to us from the history of our people. . . . It is loyalty to this law which demands of us the battle for honor and freedom . . . One Nation! One God! One Reich! One Church!"
1
Barr is a disgrace to his office as is every other Cabinet member. They have all forgotten what Separation of Church and State means.
It does not help that these Institutions get away with Tax Exempt status as do Foundations, Private schools and Universities. And they also get away with abuse of their powers, i.e. sex abuse.
Not only does the IRS tax system has to be reformed, but the Congress has to get back to their sworn oath upholding Separation of Church and State.
Let us not forget it is not just the Evangelicals who are trying to control our private lives, but also other religions.
It is too easy to blame everything on Secularists. It is stupid to blame them for the end of morality. They are not badgering Congress or anyone else to live a certain way.
These religions who are trying to impede our progress regarding those who are less fortunate, those who might have to have an abortion, trying to keep birth control away from women, do not support Public Education but are all for Viagra for the men, trampling on others Civil Rights. Obviously have never heard of the Ten Commandments or the Golden Rule.
Religion has proved to be the opioid of their members, to paraphrase Karl Marx
2
The NYT and other publications need to start and search other areas for connections of Trump, Barr and the right wing Christians that support Trump. it is happening in other parts of the white English speaking world. In Australia the new PM Scott Morrison wanted to bring his Pentacostal friend to a dinner at the White House. The friend a multi millionaire Minister named Brian Houston. Houston's father was named as someone who as a Minister had covered up for seven years sexual abuse. Morrison is a conservative who in speeches talks openly about god and ministers during the campaign spoke how he was chosen by god - I guess Trump was Trumped. Morrison attends "Family" prayer breakfasts and bases his policies on god. By the way they all belong to the group that believes Jesus wanted us to be rich and those that are are the favored ones. In addition the previous two PM in Australia both conservatives took the side of Convicted felon child abuser Cardinal Pell. My point is that it seems this white right wing religious movement is everywhere. Even in Canada the man who will become PM Scheer has spoken openly against same sex marriage, abortion and gays. He is Catholic and is taking his que from the US. everywhere and interesting how there is no conspiracy seen by them to gain power under fake religion. Scary times we live in and with so many non believers are the new target to join Jews and other groups. Oliver Cromwell lives again. Jim Trautman
@trautman
Have you seen the documentary series on Netflix “The Family” which covers the Christian cult that sounds a lot like what you describe. They have strong ties to politics and government leaders, actively recruit them, believe that Jesus wants them to be rich and rule the world, are the favored ones. They hold the annual Prayer Breakfast in DC. that many presidents have attended. Watch it, your hair will stand on end!
Barr is a classic conservative Christian. Has no problem with following an anti-christ, but is sure that we should be a theocracy. What a failure.
Those who have certain religious beliefs, based on hate and bigotry and ignorance, are under attack, as any wannabee dictator should be who wants to spread their baseless nonsense anywhere. Not all Christians are the wannbee theocrats that Barr and conservative Christians are.
I have to run to my militant secularist cell meeting, but just quickly I would say that religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
2
Someone needs to hand Billy Barr a library card and point him to the history of our religiously tolerant Founding Fathers.
3
If the 12 Democratic disciples were to invite Joel Osteen onstage tonight for them all to raise both hands to heaven and "accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour", would 30% of voters leave their immoral leader?
“If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be—a Christian”
- Mark Twain
2
Yes, Barr is the last person in the US government
who should be pronouncing winners and losers
among America's religious and secular communities. Epically disgusting is the Law School at Notre Dame inviting him to speak
in the first place. Who's next for these hypocrites?
John Yoo, on why republicans truly understand human
rights and democrats don't?
2
Barr's Faustian Bargain is not looking so great. He traded his reputation for the AG title. He's looking more like Roy Cohn as he goes to Italy to prospect for dirt on our intelligence agents to discredit the finding that Russia interfered in our 2016 election. Now we have this sad display of bigotry - "have you no shame"
3
What’s wrong with these “originalists”? No imposition of church in America! No established religion! Begone, vile hypocrite! And while we’re at it, let’s tax properties held by religious institutions, not exempt them.
2
God help us all from True Believers
I am a Believer who will never set foot in any church again
Amen
2
Sheesh, Dr. Paul, "scoundrel" is not a pejorative enough word for our President. Trump is now God's co-conspiritor. How about Rudy Giuliani, called a "hand grenade" by John Bolton, Trump's fired 3rd national security advisor. Rudy's being investigated for his Ukrainegate criminalities.
Malfeasance by Donald Trump and his enablers (Barr, McConnell, Graham, you name 'em), is giving rise to the impeachment and removal of our 45th president. President Trump has undeniably lain down with dogs and he's gotten up with fleas thick as thieves.
Just a repressed, sanctimonious fundamentalist Catholic who exercises his world views by worming his way into a powerful position and cozying up to a corrupt, immoral president. Yeah, yeah, I should listen to what he has to say. As Ian Anderson sang in Jethro Tull's song "Wind Up" on the Aqualung album...."He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sunday." To all the hypocrites like Barr ...a musical retort.
2
How was William Barr ever a respected attorney?
2
So now we’re looking to move 50 nukes out of Turkey!? Mothers.. save your children. Write to your Republican Senators. Tell them to end this presidential insanity.
When it comes to "Evangelicals" it is all about money. I never saw a single one in less than a $3000.00 suit or when more casual an expensive cashmere sweater. Do not listen to false prophets because that is what they really are. It is your purse they are after, not your immortal soul.
1
Paul, it is "god" with a small g. It is the gods of Pharaoh, Ceaser and the like.
What would all the evangelicals be saying if Clinton or Obama did the things Trump does.
OMG!
3
We need spiritual advice from this conman the way we need holes in our heads.
1
History will show that billy bob barr, the so-called Attorney General, was the Absolute Worst Attorney General “Bar” none! Pun intended!
3
Barr None's published personal ideology centers around ensconcing the absoluteness of presidential power. Not for every president, mind you, but for this specific GOP presidential usurper.
Actually, Barr's ideology & actions seem so godless, so militant, so immoral, so delusional to me that I see rabid secularism in his thinking. Hmm… .
1
The goodly doctor who I respect a lot and read his articles religiously cannot get it. Christians feels that their rights and opinions are not respected by the left. The LGBT community go out of their way to antogonise Christian's like the cake case.
It is not only whites who feels that way, blacks who are moderates are just staying home and not voting.
Mr Trump for all his fault have delivered the supreme court from vering off the cliff to the left. Where Christians will have no right to free speech which is what is taking place in Europe. You guys will not get this until Mr Trump is reelected. Why should people tax dollars be used for sex transformation in the military.
2
C'mon now, Paul. America is no longer the place where religious tolerance is acceptable. We just need a Reverend President. An Ayatollah as it were. To make sure all religious laws are practiced faithfully with exceptions granted to those at the top. Any aberrancies to be removed from the society To which Barr would respond "You got me all wrong. I don't mean that kind of stuff". What exactly do you mean then? I guess the Ten Commandments weren't laws as much as guidelines. Adapted to conditions on the ground. If Jesus were alive today, he'd be a very busy man. Excommunicating all these sinners. gays, the transgenders, the non whites, and so on. No time for miracles. And then , in his spare time, headed to Mar A Lago for a round or two. And to offer some moral mulligans.
This proclamation by Mr. Barr that “ God “ is his copilot and the the trumpian frequent pro religions affirmations , are a blatant example of elevating hypocrisy to the nth power .
2
Barr's Faustian Bargain is not looking so great. He got the AG title in exchange for his reputation. Doing Trump's bidding in Italy prospecting for dirt on our intelligence agents. Trump hopes to cast doubt on Russia's interference in 2016. Barr is looking more like Roy Cohn. This latest display of bigotry prompts a familiar question -- 'Have you no shame?'
"God Is Now Trump's Co-Conspirator," Mr. Krugman?
"Jesus wept."
For all of my life, I have observed how intolerant the religious are, and how they exercise almost total dominance over American politics. Basically, if I say "electric generation should be deregulated, but transmission should be regulated," people can call me an idiot. But if a Christian says "Jesus died and was resurrected," and I reply, "that sounds like zombie worship," they inevitably cry, "you can't criticize my sacred beliefs."
2
I am an atheist who has never:
Cheated on my husband
Divorced my husband
Cheated on my taxes
Stiffed contractors
Opened a scam university
Extorted a foreign government for personal enrichment
Ordered babies taken from their parents and locked in cages
Sexually assaulted anyone
So on and so forth...
5
Paul, that's "god" with a small "g" - as in the gods of Pharaoh, Ceaser and all the other pagan idols.
Barr is right. Science does inflict a militant and devastating assault on ignorance. Let's crank up the ole' Catholic Inquisition before that "Enlightenment" heresy takes too many souls, Eh Mr. Attorney General?
Ah yes,religion. The biggest con of all. Typically God is represented and “speaks” thru their leaders. The leader talks about ethics, morals and helping the poor. At the same time “he” typically wears gaudy rings, lives in a gilded mansion, Commits and condones a variety of immoral acts and often wears a big Goofy hat.
Is it any wonder that these folks see Trump, the NYC con with the MAGA hat, as “the chosen one”?
I ask only one thing. Freedom from religion.
1
Bill Barr doesn't believe in God. If he did, he'd know he was toast.
oh if we only had George Carlin....as we dont...
There's a little man in the sky all-seeing, all-knowing all-powerful... who needs MONEY. Just a little bit more money and everything will be OK.
www.ffrf.org
Make no mistake, the absolutist, us-versus-them, self-righteous, group-thinking, fundamentalist, so-called Christians are already halfway to fascism. They will be the first to stomp and holler and salute at the rally where the plans for the “reeducation” camps are announced.
2
"... The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion; the nation’s chief law enforcement officer has no business denouncing those who exercise that freedom by choosing not to endorse any religion. …"
Translation:
Lying is OK if you are lying for Jesus.
Of course an evil man will spew evil rhetoric.
Sad day for Christians when they stand behind such a moral disaster as Trump.
1
I remember watching Barr's hearing. I remember his statements attesting to his impartiality and his promise to adhere to the letter of the law. What a boldfaced liar!
1
Trump is a cheat, an adulterer, a hate monger, a liar, and a man who has been to church so seldom in his life that he’d need a crib sheet to get through the Lord’s Prayer. Obama was a practicing Christian, a devoted family man, honest, loving, a truth teller. You can be sure Barr would renounce Obama in favour of Trump. In the moral stakes, he is backing the wrong horse. But the bottom line is that Barr is in office to uphold our Constitution, which bars theocracy. If he is not comfortable separating church and state, he is obligated to resign.
4
Does Trump realize that Barr was critizing him as the most "sinister secularist" in elected office in Washington??
1
I don't recall anyone shooting up a mall or house of worship screaming "Death to evolution deniers!"
3
Barr’s denunciation of secularists is really an oration against religious tolerance and the separation of church and state that is a fundamental principle of our democracy. That it was uttered by the Attorney General reveals how despicable and extremest he truly is! I recall that in many totalitarian states other groups have been blamed and scapegoated by their leaders for moral decay and national decline. In Germany this led to the Holocaust. This speech was designed to incite the White Evangelical Christian Right Wing Base to support Trump and divert their attention from his corruption and his own illegalities.
What an amoral Attorney General! He needs to be investigated and impeached for demagoguery, his aberrant conduct and his dereliction of duty to the truth and the law!
2
Though I read the Times and W. Post, daily, probably too much, thank-you, Paul, for brining my attention to this “preach.” I wish our “chief law officer’s” actions would gain more press scrutiny as well as criticism. I find this totally hypocritical coming from the source; he seems far more in his element at Rupert Murdoch’s side than Norte Dame. You are one of the few opinion writers who, thankfully, is brave enough to take these corrupters on.
Racism and religion are the two main causes of war down thru history. This divisive cadre has already used race to inflame our country to a frightening precipice, so it’s inherently natural their evil minds will now use religion as an impeachment defense. Barr is more dangerous than his “first client.” He has a brain and thinks like a criminal lawyer. He’s perfect for his loony boss, but not for the United States of America. It’s a disgrace.
2
Anyone needing more proof that self-professed religious breast beaters are the most hideous specimens of humanity, should watch the recent Netflix documentary on Abdus Salaam.
Salaam was a Pakistani who won the 1979 Nobel prize for the Weinberg-Salaam theory of weak interactions, now known as the standard model of particle physics, since it has been tested and corroborated in a thousand different ways, culminating in the discovery of the Higgs boson.
Salaam was a devout Muslim, and loved Pakistan deeply despite having to work in England because in Pakistan he could not find the intellectual community he needed for his work. He proudly accepted the Nobel prize attired like a Pakistani nobleman, while everyone else wore a tuxedo.
Yet in 1974, the Ahmadiyaas, the Islamic community in which Salaam was born, were declared to not be Muslims in the Pakistani constitution because of differences in belief. Even today, any Ahmadiya who claims to be a Muslim faces prison. After his prize, when Salaam was invited to speak at a Pakistani university, a large student group threatened to "break his legs" if he came. He is buried in Pakistan, but on his gravestone, in the phrase "the first Muslim Nobel laureate," the word "Muslim" is crudely plastered over in a shoddy white-out job with drips.
Falwell is no different than the Mullahs who practice such cruelty, and Barr and Trump are no different than the craven Bhutto and Zia who enacted the law to curry favor with the Mullahs.
1
Let's see now, why on earth would so many people be leaving organized religion???
How about Catholic priests sexually abusing boys and then shuffling those same priests from parish to parish, in spite of knowing their sins, so they have free rein to abuse yet more boys??? (Not to mention that the Vatican has turned a blind eye to this abuse for decades...)
How about Evangelical "Christians" gleefully supporting the most corrupt, the most dishonest, the most hateful, the most intolerant of "the other," the most sexually promiscuous, the most ignorant and unfit man for POTUS that has ever held such office, while at the same time saying his being POTUS is what God wants - all the while spouting a "prosperity gospel" that totally contradicts the actual life and words of the Jesus they claim to adore....
Shall I go on???
People who leave these religions are not doing so because they hate God - many are doing so because they don't find God anywhere at all within the church walls of those organized religions. Even if they know nothing about God or religion at all, the lives of the "secular" people I know much more closely match what any religion should be teaching than what they are actually teaching, by their actions.
Shame on William Barr. Shame on him.
2
Re: '...Barr gave a fiery speech denouncing the threat to America posed by “militant secularists,” whom he accused of conspiring to destroy the “traditional moral order,” blaming them for rising mental illness, drug dependency and violence..."
What will Barr / other self_righteous criminals say when, (NOT, 'If, 'N, When'!), 'they' give a mass or other monotheist ceremony and...no one shows up?
For my part, I laughed when I read that 'Militant Secularists' phrase, above!
The Abrahamic Monotheist faiths WON'T be suppressed... they will cease to exist over the next century or so, aka, organizational suicide via 'passive attrition', as what they offer, ('Us-Vs.-Them' theologies: sexism, racism, homophobia, spiritual rigidity, and, of course...sex / other crimes...), become less, 'N, less relevant / morally, acceptable!!
A Neo_Darwinian Extinction_Event...
With every passing day, Mr. Barr seems more, 'N, more like the 'cliche' corrupt small town southern sheriff, (aka, the late Jackie Gleason in the 'Smokey, 'N, the bandit' films...)!
Meanwhile, it's my understanding that the religious subgroup experiencing the most believer_growth / retention has self - labelled: the 'Nones': people who're STILL 'spiritual', but have decided to give their ancestral faiths the heave, ho!
2019 is 50 years since I / my wallet entered any R.C.C. facility for religious purposes, aka, excepting my '1st. Responder' career responsibilities...
Otherwise...
Blessed, Be Kept!
It never fails to amaze that biblethumpers so often miss the simplest lessons of their own religion.
Don’t be presumptuous: who are you to think you know the mind of God?
Render unto Caesar: you live in a secular world.
Don’t pray in public, as do the Hypocrites and Pharisees.
It’s wrong to take pleasure in the misery of others; judge not, lest ye be judged.
Your Kingdom is not of this world.
Do unto others, y’all.
There’s a whole buncha other stuff, but it’s trickier. I’m talking about the “Don’t stick little kids in cages,” and “Don’t kiss up to the likes of Donald Trump,” level.
Woulldn’t think it’d be so tricky, but I guess...
1
“When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross” - Sinclair Lewis
4
Such a tragedy that a man with a Jewish father and Catholic mother, raised on the diverse Upper West Side, and alum of two of our country's best universities is incapable of demonstrating the kind of rigor and restraint expected of the office of the Attorney General of the United States - (and even more shocking since this is his second round).
Then again he didn't bat an eye when it came to convincing a president to pardon a convicted criminal from his Old Boy Club.
2
The Christians and the racists are the core of trump's base. These two groups will NEVER change their point of view, nor are they open to rational debate. VOTE BLUE!!
1
This church lady says. “How much time was it again that John Mitchell spent in the slammer?”
Substitute the words "militant sectarians" for "militant secularists" in Barr's rant and he would have a point.
It ain't atheists who are walking into synagogues and murdering people because they are jewish. It ain't militant secularists murdering people with brown skin in Walmarts.
And isn't it just precious that a serial liar, who, since the very first day he took an oath of loyalty to the Constitution, has made it his mission to destroy the concept of the separation of powers, is going around giving lectures to law students.
His lecture is nothing less than an assault on the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
1
"White people couldn't maintain power for forty-eight hours if they followed two of the ten commandments".
Historian and author; Dr. John Henrik Clarke
I witnessed Klan members changing into sheets in a church parking lot on the eve of my elders voting for the first time in 68. I heard white folks on the radio using the Bible to justify lynching and segregation. I attended the wake of the mangled twisted body of Emmett Till.
When William Barr speaks of — “traditional moral order" — he speaking of white men and women defining what's right or wrong, who gets what, and claiming the right to kill anyone they think needs to be killed. US history proves this.
Militant secularism didn't cause the mass slaughter of Native American's.
Militant secularism didn't cause the enslaving, killing, raping and torturing of African slaves.
Militant secularism didn't cause some Priest to molest and rape children.
Militant secularism didn't cause the US government to cage children.
Militant secularism didn't cause a habitual lying racist to be elected to the White House, again.
Evil people, with evil hearts cause these things to happen.
The ninth commandment;
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"
2
Evangelicals giving their undying support to the porn star president. Hard to keep my breakfast down with such utter hypocrisy. Dinosaurs like Bill Barr can talk up religion and Don Trump all they want. They are just speeding up the process of making the GOP brand revolting to young as well as old Americans. (Ha, I'm old). All those religious talking heads supporting the most corrupt president ever? They're doing wonders for their brand too.
1
So what do evangelicals think of the Trump campaign video of a murderous rampage in a church?
I am shocked and disappointed that Notre Dame let Barr give a speech. He is holding the DOJ hostage and UND invites him to speak.
Moreover, it makes me so angry when people pit secularism AGAINST religion. We have a principle of separating religion from the "state" in our country. This does not necessarily make them opponents, unless your name is William Barr.
And where does a man who is lying and covering for a complete thug - and using the Constitution against us all - get off lecturing about what is religion? Barr's speech gave NO evidence that he knows the true meaning of religion or secularism. I'm sure he thinks otherwise, but the fruits of your words and actions, Barr, are not Christian. And let's drop all pretenses about some sustained battle between God and secularism. It's a battle between your stunted version of religion and whatever names you call your opponents. You, AG Barr, are a fraud.
2
When the vice president, secretary of state, attorney general, and supreme court justices all start singing from the same white Christian nationalist hymnal, it’s time to start circling the wagons.
1
William Barr has long been associated with the Catholic, ultra-conservative, secretive organization - Opus Dei. And at times he has shown himself to be in favor of America becoming a theocracy based on Opus Dei principles. As Laura Murray-Tjan of WBUR Boston suggests, “Trump is Barr’s imperfect vessel, not the other way around.” https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2019/05/09/william-barr-mueller-report-laura-murray-tjan
Mr. Barr’s actions become much clearer when seen through Opus Dei glasses.
1
God turned his back on everything on November 8, 2016
Did Barr ride a dinosaur to that meeting?
According to Trump and his minions, immigrants are stealing your jobs and secularists are debasing society. They sound like alcoholics blaming everyone else for their problems but in this case it's a political plan. Campaign on blame and division, govern on the Koch agenda. What's scary is that so many people fall for their grift. Outside of Trump, Barr is the scariest person that has influence over society. Yeah! Come on America, fix this!!
1
Equating God and Trump has surprised me more than I thought it would. Evangelicals in their theologies have succumbed to the very Evil they raged about since this country was founded. Now,
they include NOT Supporting Trump is equal to all the other sins of the flesh on their shopping list.
The same Evil happened in Nazi Germany when Hitler was
deified. God and Hitler became one.
God won out over Hitler. The difference now is that moral
persuasion is no longer a balancing factor against embracing
Evil.
1
The Antichrist is described as a “man of sin,” a liar and deceiver whose natural abilities Satan enhances by supernatural power in order to confuse people in the end time.
It appears to me this is the abomination that the evangelicals promoted to lead our nation. It makes sense because their main motivation is collecting money so they can build their Christian theme parks and support their lavish life styles. Adding insult to injury most of these charlatans probably don't pay income tax.
1
I have never been able to discern if the evangelicals are using the Republicans for their purposes or if it’s the other way around and the Repubs are using the evangelicals. Either way, all of them are demonic. Yes, they are evil. They use God as a weapon against other people. That’s evil.
1
Dump Trump, Ditch Mitch "Machiavelli" McConnell, bar Barr, emasculate Lyndsey Graham, flip the Senate, Stephen Miller off to Moscow, Tea Party types headed for Boston Harbor, and Club For Growth fully exposed for what it is. Vote, take our country back. Flip the Senate, increase the Democratic House Majority. Take our country back. For all you evangelical types - reconsider, Jesus is coming and she is upset. Vote. Vladimir won in 2016, America lost. Never again.
1
Shame on Notre Dame Law for hosting the corrupt Trump sycophant. He deserves to be impeached with his boss.
2
Like Obama said in 2007 - God and guns. It’s a winning strategy because they’re inciting these extremists to violence if they lose the election. Especially if they lose an election they worked with Russia so hard to fix. One way or another, they’re going to turn America into their rich white Christian straight male promised land.
Paul points out: “William Barr — again, the nation’s chief law enforcement officer, responsible for defending the Constitution — is sounding remarkably like America’s most unhinged religious zealots, the kind of people who insist that we keep experiencing mass murder because schools teach the theory of evolution. Guns don’t kill people — Darwin kills people!”
It is indeed a pogrom and direct attack upon the Constitution. And it is not too surprising that yet another proponent of alternative facts, fake news, bigotry, and division would ally with Bible thumpers, not renowned for veracity or attention to fact, but infamous mainly for demonization of those outside the “one true faith”.
1
In May 1924, in South Bend, about 500 Notre Dame Students took on members of the Ku Klux Klan, militant "Christians" at war with Catholics, Jews, African-Americans, immorality, and alcohol. At the time, the Klan in Indiana had 250,000 or more members, about 30% of the white, native-born male population, including a majority of members in the state legislature. Each Klan chapter had its own "chaplain" leading the prayers.
Militant secularist? Where do I sign up?
Bill Barr lecturing others on immorality.
Now that is rich.
1
Evangelical support for the lying, mysogynistic, racist, loser in the White House is one of the strongest negative advertisements for their religion. Millenials are mostly repulsed by them and Evangelical Christian numbers are shrinking fast. Evangelical Christians are bringing about their own well-deserved demise and it can't happen soon enough. The world will be much better without their hate infecting our society.
God is my co-pilot???!! If I understand the authority structure in a cockpit correctly, this seems blasphemous in the extreme.
William "Barr" should be disbarred!
He's a disgrace to the job and dignity of the attorney general!
Nothing says religion like serial adultery,
abusing women, lying and bigotry.
Regardless of your beliefs, God, Big Bang Theory(not the sitcom), aliens, even Tinkerbell the fairy, the only co-conspirators in this disastrous corrupt administration are the human enablers that allow conspiracy theories, racism, propaganda, criminality, and corruption to occur, I would like to leave that to the Republicans however you cant group all Congressmen in the same deplorable basket, you need also look at the leaders of many Religious Organizations, these are entities who are supposed to follow what is perceived to be Christian Values, why then are they not, why is it that the heads of these ministries have private compounds, planes, the best food, clothing, maintenance, bank accounts, while those who are trusting and suffering often have little, TAX BREAKS! that are invisible, several administrations have tried to quash these but have been unsuccessful due to outcry, why are these same Religious Leaders and their followers willing to forgive the many indiscretions , corruption, because they are told by the heads of their religions this is "God's will to forgive" yet any of these members not affiliated with the hierarchy of their perspective ministries would be shunned possibly jailed,the corrupt begets corruption, the dysfunctional attract dysfunction, the powerful DEMAND more power and will go to any length to achieve, so to contrive that God is a co-conspirator would deny the following "If you believe in one then you must believe in the other, existence of EVIL
Christians like Barr oppose Christians like Jimmy Carter.
3
As a lapsed Catholic and agnostic I think that all religious zealots are equivalent to the Westboro Baptist Church.
Why should religions be tax-exempt? I know many agnostics and atheists and not one cheats on his/her spouse, steals from work, or forces our views on others.
Do what you want in the privacy of your home but don’t even think about cramming Christianity down our throats. I love how the southern states actually pass laws not allowing sharia law! Evangelists think that LGBTQ folks should lose their jobs! We know for a FACT that too many Catholic priests are pedophiles while NO correlation has been seen of gay men sexually abusing young boys!
It IS a fact that coaches, scout leaders and team doctors who profess to be Christians sure do a lot of abuse and get away with it!
What DIFFERENCE does it make if I spent my life giving medical care to Doctors without Borders or set up clinics in underserved areas. I DO believe in creating heaven on earth for all humans. THAT should be our goal.
We ARE changing, but most of us are in closets. There are 100 BILLION galaxies in the universe, yet football teams kneel and pray for victory.
I don’t understand how supposedly intelligent folks still believe in such mysticism. I thought Obama was very bright, yet the first of five letters he wrote back to me he signed it with a verse from Romans and said “God Bless you;" I was disappointed.
The next four replies made zero mention of God or the bible. So he’s evolving?
1
Anything is possible for someone who believes in magic spirits in the sky. It should not be surprising that evangelicals support an evil man. Cults can be made to do anything.
In Mr. Barr, Don Trump may have found his Roy Cohn. Or some conflation of William Barr and Rudolph Giuliani.
The hypocrites hide behind their bibles. Not for the first time.
Trump stole God to appear good.
Ignorance, both literal and figurative, is the last refuge of Times Opinion writer, Paul Krugman
1
The invention of "GOD" was devised by men in order to keep the voices of reason (women) at bay. No mystery why the concept is male.
Burning witches at the stake, tearing women to shreds by wild animals, and still degrading them by rape, all worked very well to keep them quiet, but those voices long held captive through the gifts of force and finery are calling and women everywhere are listening.
I trust we elect a woman as our next President and rid our nation of the blight which the promoters of every imaginary "GOD" have spread for millenia.
Vote reason. Vote women.
Just one more reason to vote the greedy, unpatriotic, theocratic republicans out of office.
God help us from those how believe in YOU !
AG Barr is simply wrong. On religion, I totally agree with A. Einstein and B. Russell. Just look at what men with "moral compasses" did in the conquest of America. See "La conquista de América contada para escépticos" by Juan Eslava Galán (The conquest of America narrated for esceptics) , Planeta, 2019. ISBN978-84-08-20931-7
It is right wing faux Christians and phony Evangelical charlatans and their hypocrite racist Republican partners who have all but ruined this country. One of the first orders of business of a Democratic Congress should be stripping political Evangelical business racketeers of their tax exempt status and make them pay the new 90 percent tax rate like the big businesses they really are. And it would be nice to know how much laundered Russian money they are funneling to the Republican Treason organization as well.
Seems like Barr was talking about Trump.
A poetic ending for an important caveat-article.
Considering that G'd chose not to help during many natural and man-made disasters throughout history- World Wars, THE Plague, Spanish Flu, Depression ( economic and the "epidemic of psychologically experienced ones), the Holocaust, the likelihood of help-NOW may be low.
SO...each of US has a choice to make, daily, given:
who and what we are,
who and what we are not, and not likely to ever BE(come),and
who and what we are yet to BE.
An opportunity awaits and invites the "risk" of choosing to make a difference that makes a sustainable difference for the equitable wellbeing of ALL of US, as well as menschlich living rooted in mutual trust, respect, caring and civility.
This is human work; not G'd's work!
All religions are false. They are based on someones concepts. As long as you believe God is a separt entitiy you will never meet him.
1
What would Jesus do? I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t put children in cages, turn a cold shoulder to desperate migrants, take food and health care from poor families, and suck up to the rich and powerful. In the mouths of people like William Barr “religion” and “morality” become meaningless incantations, political props that appeal to some of the least Christlike “Christians” you could ever meet.
3
If Trump wants to keep the evangelical vote he should stop swearing. Every time he curses those words reverberate in thousands of Christian living rooms and echo through their houses. Children come to the top of the stairs asking: did the President just swear on tv? It might seem trivial but enough voters will be repulsed and perhaps change their votes.
1
Again and again, religious orders go to court. They are not seeking to practice their religion, which is guaranteed under the Constitution. What they're asking for is the right to discriminate, in the name of their god, against all other sects and beliefs.
Their religions aren't being threatened, only the fun of punishing others is at stake.
3
As a Christian, I could not disagree more with William Barr about where our country — at least its Christians — have gone wrong.
It is not that the country has left God; the problem is that many Christians, at least the vocal ones, have ditched God for very ungodly and un-Christlike values. It is this hypocrisy, bigotry, and cruelty, ham-handedly justified by cherry-picked Bible verses taken out of context, that is the cause of faith-based ruin.
Christ commanded us to love our neighbor, telling us all the law hangs on that and loving God. Christ told us to take care of “the least of these brothers and sisters.” We are warned about the love of money being the root of all kinds of evil and reminded to love foreigners because Jews were once foreigners in Egypt.
So the modern-day Pharisees who fashion themselves as Christian leaders support locking up children, taking away healthcare, bashing migrants, and hating on LGBTQ+, while trying to sell us on “prosperity gospel.” Barr is more of the same.
Meanwhile, the press all but ignores true Christians like nonagenarian Jimmy Carter, a humble Sunday school teacher in Georgia who builds houses for the poor in his spare time.
2
I'm not sure Mr. Krugman fully understands how connected the "evangelical Christian" movement is to anti-choice Right to Life. Where I live, you cannot run for Drain Commissioner unless you are a card-carrying RTL supporter. For many voters it is the only thing that matters, and unlike countless Republicans before him Trump has delivered the goods.
I have a great deal of respect for many RTL believers because they are not just willing to sacrifice their own interests, but will go to great extents to make deeply personal sacrifices such as adopting handicapped children. If you believe abortion is murder, if should be unacceptable to compromise.
So, I'm not surprised that this cohort will stick with Trump to the end. If RTL is the only thing that matters, it is not difficult to dismiss Trump's moral depravity and intellectual shortcomings.
1
They struggle to take us back to the 1950s. We forget that it was in 1954 that the words "under God" were added to the Pledge of Allegiance. Granted this was in response to "godless" Communism.
However, this is just another attempt to restore the country to a time that can never be.... and should not be.
@wonders: This legislation came into force in 1954, but was enacted in 1953. It is blatantly unconstitutional, but the Supreme Court holds that nobody has standing to challenge it.
1
Of so many questions that we still don't have the answers to about this malign and criminal administration, one that I hope someday is answered is this: Why did Bill Barr, a wealthy and successful lawyer by all accounts, take this job to be trump's legal toady? What is in it for him? I don't get it.
3
Of course this strategy will work! Divide and conquer, no matter how ugly, Always works. Just ask today's Lee Atwaters--or any of the top dogs at Fox News. The only thing that will take Trump down is a faltering economy, period.
1
Why should any of us support a religion who lines up behind an amoral character like Trump? Because he says to? No thanks I’ll take my chances. As far as Falwell , Dobson, Graham and the other loudmouth,false prophets, I’ll take my chances there also.
2
No wars are fought for secular reasons. It's always my belief Vs. yours. Barr doesn't belong as AG or in any government position since he is the lead apologist for Trump. The only way to make America great again is to have a democratic sweep in 2020.
2
This isn't new. Republicans have convinced their voters they are cloaked in religious fervor for decades. Meanwhile, Jesus was and will always be a liberal and that's why republicans say the opposite so often.
3
While I generally appreciate Krugman's economic analyses, I find this piece superficial and tendentious. What Krugman overlooks is that the secular left is itself extremely intolerant towards those who disagree with them. Those who oppose gay marriage are branded homophobes, those who oppose teaching transgenderism to six year olds in the schools and the doctrine that "gender is fluid" or that object to transvestite story hours in public libraries are branded "transphobic." I don't like Barr or what he is doing as Attorney General, but he has appoint about the agenda of the secular left and the destruction of traditional moral and social standards that it is engineering.
2
@TRW
Traditional moral and social standards are immoral and cruel. It is cruel to treat gay and transgender people as less-than. It is cruel to deny basic human rights to any non criminal group of people. How many suicides have resulted from such so called moral standards? In fact traditional moral standards have taught some groups that they are unworthy to receive a living wage for an honest days work. Traditional moral standards support some people having parking lots full of antique vehicles while others are homeless. These standards are immoral and simply wrong.
1
I am a professing Christian. I am a white, Southern, straight male, married to one woman for 35 years, with two children and three beautiful grandchildren. I am an Annapolis graduate, a Navy veteran, and have been a partner in a small business. I go to church almost every Sunday, and am active in our church's outreach and missions.
I am indeed under attack. I am under attack from a bigoted, provincial, xenophobic "religion" that holds some human beings to be less than others, although our "religion" teaches that all humans hold the image of the Creator. I am under attack from those who believe that certain sins are worse than others, who believe that Donald Trump the groper-in-chief has somehow been anointed as their Deliverer from the evils of liberalism. I am under attack from those who believe that separating families at the border (nothing new in our 400-year history on this continent) is perfectly OK. I am under attack from those who earnestly pray for God to help the rich, because the poor can beg. I am under attack from those who believe guns are the instrument of God's justice.
So I believe that progress in equality, progress in justice for the poor, progress in recognizing the worth of every human, is the true measure of "religion." And on that measure, I do see that we are "more religious," despite the current occupant of the Oval Office and those who worship him.
7
The Treaty of Tripoli, the first treaty ratified by congress and signed by President John Adams in 1797, states that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
Nuff said??
6
I don't know why people continue to discuss the source of Trump's hold on the right: religion.
It is abortion and freedom to discriminate based on religious "values."
It is judges who will continue to incarcerate people of color to deny minorities the right to vote and participate in society.
Right to life?
The person about to be executed by an evangelical switch thrower.
People dying in prisons due to violence.
Immigrants drowning.
Children dying in detention centers.
This is GOD.
3
It is truly amazing to see so many constitutional "strict constructionists" choose to distort, beyond all recognition, one of its fundamental underlying principles, i.e., the separation of church and state as a safeguard to protecting freedom of religion. Although I think Beto O'Rourke is going too far by suggesting that any religious institution which does not support gay marriage should lose their tax exempt status, I believe a persuasive case can be made that those institutions which openly support political candidates or causes should understand they are threatening their tax exempt status on constitutional grounds.
1
I always thought Martin Luther nailing his complaints to the church door was gutsy, and he did in fact encourage some changes in the religion business.
Mr. Barr on the other hand, more closely emulates Carlos Ponzi, of the world's most infamous con.
The most appalling aspect of the current repub party is their almost system wide belief that they can lie, cheat, libel and hover on the edge of treason with no risk.
If the heads of the major religions in this country do not rise up as one and condemn this speech, we are surely on the path to pogroms, church burnings and plain old fashioned ugliness beyond belief.
While accepting the perils associated with impeachment it is definitely the time for Congress to move forward in all haste and that includes Republicans, if they ever want to be able to hold their heads high again.
Call me crazy, but when John Bolton stands out as the voice of reason, we are really truly actually on the eve of destruction.
2
Paul Krugman, thank you for the numbers/facts that put the lies to Barr's frightening oratory.
If not being religious means that the head of United States Justice thinks I'm intentionally damaging traditional moral order, then I know I need to help get him out of office ASAP: apparently Barr's idea of morality encompasses the immorality of Trump's deadly betrayal of the Kurds, his verbal abuse of almost everyone, and the many illegal and unethical practices of Trump, his administration, many in his family, and others connected to him.
1
Interestingly, THE NATION lays out Barr's associations with extremist Catholic groups ("William Barr is Neck-Deep in Extremist Catholic Institutions" by Joan Walsh), so there's likely some meat on the proverbial bones with regard to Barr's extremist posturing.
Maybe it's an easy way for him to galvanize Trump's "Brimstone Base" (e.g., the so-called Christians who seen in Trump's Caesar/Mammon nature some kind of salvation), and to shore up his own theocratic bona fides with his own benefactors.
1
Please, do not paint all evangelicals with a Trumpian brush. Many, if not most, evangelicals do not subscribe to fundamentalism, nor to the Dominionist heresy that imagines it can domesticate God to support its theocratical imaginings. The god Barr and his cohort invoke is a local, indeed, tribal deity; certainly not the God of the monotheistic faiths. I'll happily identify with evangelicals and others who are willing to live by what used to be a truism in America: a willingness to disagree with positions while defending, to the death if need be, the freedom to hold those differing positions.
1
As a Christian with a strong belief in the importance of separation of church and state, I clearly object to Attorney General Barr's remarks at Notre Dame where he raises the specter of a new bogeyman, "militant secularsim." Jesus Christ gave us the perfect moral paradigm for distinguishing between our government, which must be secular and our religious beliefs (or lack thereof): Matthew 22:21 And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.
The separation of church and state protects both the rights of individuals to hold and exercise our own beliefs, as well as protecting the religion from being rejected because it is imposed on us by the State. AG Barr's attempts to make secularism the enemy of religion is wrongheaded, and unnecessary. It is inappropriate for him to take a position on such matters in his role as Attorney General and therefore, a representative of government. AG Barr's actions should be condemned by people of faith and people who are not affiliated with a religion alike.
5
Thanks to Paul Krugman for identifying the danger posed by William Barr's fanaticism. According to an article in Wire.News, "Barr attacled the very concept of secular government, and in one speech said advocates of secularism 'are clearly fanatics'"!
Others have said that Barr is "a hardened ideologue who believes that the president he serves is largely above the law". Not only was Barr's speech at the University of Notre Dame inappropriate, it was chilling and reckless. We do not need a fanatic in the powerful position of Attorney General.
5
@Elizabeth Bennett Forgot to mention that it was in the 1990s that Barr attacked the very concept of secular government--so he's been promulgating ideas about proper governance for decades.
1
I feel like Barr's point worth considering -- if we insist on living in a nation where people are armed to the teeth, continually on the precipice of financial ruin, and without any assurance that government or corporation will heed public interests, then sure, maybe prayer is all many people have left.
2
What I did not see here was an account of how the students and faculty reacted to Barr's speech. Barr's remarks don't surprise me. They are shocking to be sure but to anyone who has been paying attention they are surely not surprising.
What I am interested in finding out is how did the audience react? If Notre Dame law students applauded this man, then I think THAT is a real problem. To move from civil rights icon Theodore Hesburgh to any respect for the Buffoon Barr is a real tragedy for what was once a fine University.
4
Perhaps, as a devout Catholic, Barr should try to emulate the tone and acceptance of his current Pope.
One could argue that atheists/agnostics who behave with respect for others, tolerance, kindness, compassion for humanity etc. just based on moral principles are actually behaving at a higher ethical level than those whose behavior is motivated by being rewarded in heaven.
7
Impeach. Acquit. Reelect.
Yes, it's really that simple.
3
The playbook of the Republican Party mandates that liberals be equated with atheism; and that atheism is responsible for all the world's woes. Last week a conservative columnist for the New York Times included a line that said, to paraphrase: "let's say that a person is a liberal and an atheist"..... Why is the liberal an atheist? Maybe the liberal is filled with compassion and love for his fellow man because both he and his fellow man share a source - a great Divine Diety?
3
Many in the right-wing evangelical community rail against ISIS, and Al Qaeda before that.
They don't hate these groups because they are terrorists. They hate them because they are competition. The only difference is which religion each side has perverted in order to justify inflicting their will upon others.
The right-wing evangelicals want nothing less than to subject the rest of America to Christian Sharia Law.
9
Barr has essentially said that it’s okay for him to trash the constitution if it conflicts with his warped sense of religious righteousness. His actions confirm his words. He is singularly unfit for the office he holds.
4
Notre Dame Law wanted to hear from Barr? This may tell us something about Notre Dame Law.
3
Sorry, but is it just me... or does Barr resemble Barney Rubble, especially when standing next to Fred (aka Trump)?
Either way, they are both dangerously despicable despots that just need to go away!
2
An unwarranted insult to Barney and Fred
1
Barr is not out of line. Just for starters, consider these comments from Washington himself:
"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”
– George Washington
“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable.”
– George Washington
We beseech [God] to pardon our national and other transgressions…
– George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation 1789
Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy son, Jesus Christ.
– George Washington, Prayer
True religion affords to government its surest support.
– George Washington
1
@Dave Oedel
And George Washington was entitled to those beliefs. However, Article 11 of the Treaty of Tunis, ratified by the US Senate in 1797, begins "... the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion ..." That the country was founded as non-sectarian did not preclude any of the founders (and those of us who followed over the centuries) from being religious (or not).
If some religion can be imposed on the country, who is to say it will be your religion?
1
@Dave Oedel Barr is out of line in that the religion he espouse ignores the very basics of the Christian faith, summarized in Jesus Christ's mission statement:
God’s Spirit is on me;
he’s chosen me to preach the Message of good news to the poor,
Sent me to announce pardon to prisoners and
recovery of sight to the blind,
To set the burdened and battered free,
to announce, “This is God’s year to act!” - Luke 4:18-19 (The Message)
1
Yeah, Barr is. Because Washington never gave loud speeches yelling at people who believed differently. Nor is he my boss.
So I’ll see your George, and raise you two Toms—Jefferson and Paine.
1
If "traditional moral order" requires fealty to the likes of Pat Robertson (Trump has a mandate from Heaven) and Pastor Robert Jeffress (legalizing abortion resulted in 9/11 and being gay may make you explode), I'll stick with those who believe politics and religion don't mix.
And if Barr is the cheerleader for "traditional moral order," we need to question how he reconciles that with his loyalty to a man who is a confirmed adulterer, liar, extortionist and bigot.
3
Today's "conservatives," religious and otherwise, put the "con" in "conservative," in both the American and French meanings.
Paul, let’s not forget George W Bush is a born again Christian who claimed god spoke to him. He and his entire team of conmen and women got away with an unfounded unfunded Iraq war that went on and on and on. The returning young American veterans came back bruised wounded scarred facing years of PTSD, broken families, separated families. No apologies were ever given. No explanation. No proper health care follow up or support. What kind of Christian god would ask you to attack fellow human beings over there! All in the name of Christianity. What kind of religion is this, that spread by sword, by ethnic genocides of entire Jewish populations, of Spanish Inquisitions, of obliterating native cultures, forceful conversions. No wonder our kids who have actually read history books, don’t feel drawn to this kind of religion that is both hypocritical as well as blatantly ignorant of “divine” qualities.
1
I shudder when I see this group called “evangelical,” the bearers of “good news.” They are neither evangelical nor Christian. They either ignore or are ignorant of Bible teaching. On judging others, “Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone.” On loving God, “He who says he loves God and hates his neighbor is a liar.” This is the crowd who will claim righteousness at Jugement, saying “We cast out demons in your name.” The reply, “I never knew you.”
It happened before, not too long ago. Their antecedents are the many who persecuted Jews (Christ killers), homosexuals, gypsies, the mentally or,physically disabled, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and many others as bigotry gained ground in Europe leading to WW2. We know the terrible devastation Europe suffered, along with the loss of American lives. But we never learn. The most damning aspect of it all was the silence of the Church. There were a few martyrs, but the institutions were silent. I don’t see much in the media or hear much from the pulpit about this aberrant wing of Protestantism. It is disheartening.
1
@Norma Gauster: The real good news is that everyone makes it to Nirvana (permanent oblivion) on their first try.
None of the mass shooting murders in the past twenty years were committed by atheists.
4
Um.................DUH!!!!!!!!!!!
For 30 years or more I have been bemoaning the take over of the Republican Party by Religious Conservatives. It has been an ipso facto thing for a minimum of 10 years now, each year that passes just increases the stranglehold they have. Listen to Conservative Talk Radio, the new normal is one of preference for all things religious and zero tolerance for any one or thing that contradicts Evangelical Christianity's world view. They would have all of us fill their pews on every Sunday and take in a heaping dose of their unquestionable Bible absolutism. For clarity here, the writer is a devout Reformed Jew who attends Shabbat services regularly and for whom there is no question that there is God, even if I can't define it for myself let alone anyone else. But, my religiosity allows for opinions that do not coincide with mine and I for sure am not prepared to enshrine my personal religious views in U.S. law. So, bottom line, how is Barr's commentary surprising in any way? For me it surely is not. BTW, should Trump stop delivering on the Christian Conservative agenda, he will be impeached and convicted so fast, the media won't have time to report on it fully and we will have President Pence who is totally of them.
2
Evangelicals have ONE calling from Christ - to share the good news. They have failed. Instead, they have become miserable bigots, consumed by fear and hatred. They will soon answer for the fact that they now lead more to atheism than to Christ. If these people are Christians, count me among the atheists.
1
We hold these truths to be self-evident; "There is nothing that white male Americans HATE more than sharing their constitutionally guaranteed rights with ANYONE."
3
Barr’s speech is no surprise-after all he works for “the Chosen One!”
1
This is not the type of kindness Jesus wanted his people to show to 'the least of them,' who Mr. Barr must be talking about with such contempt.
Weaponizing religion in word, then turning your back on it in action is the worst type of politicking, yet it's the only type of politics we ever see related to religion these days.
Shame on you Mr. Barr.
2
I find it ironic that this Attorney General complains about militant secularists conspiring to destroy the traditional moral order while he supports a President who has committed multiple adulteries, has lied thousands of time, and has cheated numerous subcontractors that he has gone into business with.
Trump is no Christian. It's all a sham to divert attention. It's to late for them anyway.
1
I know this is an Opinion column and not a news report, but it left me curious about how the audience at Notre Dame Law School reacted to it. Did they cheer? Did they boo, hiss, and heckle? I agree that the AG has no business endorsing any particular religion, or religion in general, while he is in office. What is arguably worse is that his premise is demonstrably false. That cements his place as a "qualified" member of the Trump administration. How did the Senate confirm this bozo?
2
Barr just plays to the religious extremist base and their desire to foment end times which is why they adore trumpist chaos. The country and the world (it seems) are being held hostage by a minority cult and their complicit GOP. The only wall we need is a more robust wall separating church and state.
You are mixing secularism and atheism, which are totally two different things...
It can reinforce the confusion of religious zealots....
No one, no one who supports the current immigration actions has the right to call themselves a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslin.
No one.
3
I (secular humanist to the core) pray to God that the Notre Dame audience rejected this tripe. I think even though it is a Catholic school, it is also a scholarly institution, where the students have an understanding of history and how irresponsible screed like this guides people into violence and war against each other.
Here's my belief: God is not using Trump. Trump is using God.
1
It seems that many of Trump's people have succumbed to
"Trumpitis" a communicable disease for those with weakened systems..............
1
the Tyrant has wrapped himself in the flag and has now appropriated God Almighty to sanctify his authoritarian grasp of power from the Congress representing the voice of the American people. The Constitution and the Republic is under assault by an enemy that breaths and thrives among us. Our freedom is being challenged as never before by traitors that mean to make us slaves of a political order that will silence dissent.
1
And he's lost the mandate of heaven! The Emperor has lost the mandate of heaven! (Has anyone informed the Chinese? Well, yes, I guess they have....)
President Train Wreck appears to be getting his stable of pious hypocrites (Barr, Pompeo, Pence) to muddy the national discussion because he is on the brink of being impeached. I believe he suckered Turkey into invading Syria in order to create a manageable "foreign threat" that would also take attention away from his little impeachment problem. Expect more of this stuff as his political situation deteriorates.
Dangerous Reactionaries are trying to destroy our society.
Some days I swear that American conservatives looked at History and pointed at the rise of fascism in Europe, and just decided: "There! Those guys! They had it right all along! That's what America should do too! That's our new platform!"
1
So, Barr is making the case that if I own a company and I beieve in Sharia law, I can refuse to hire, or fire , anyone who doesn't believe in my beliefs.
1
The remit of the House for impeachment includes "...all civil Officers...", Barr none.
1
Well stated, Paul. When Trump and his sycophants and lickspittles say something, believe the opposite.
The Ancient Greek gods were assigned powers to monitor human behavior whereas today, humans assigne themselves god powers to justify their flaws and sins.
Barr is the wrong person to preach religion. He is neither honest, good or ethical.
1
Increasingly it looks like that Rudy Giuliani may soon be frog walking. So the question is when Rudy goes, can Barr be far behind?
The devil did not need to work at all when people were so willing to do his dirty work for him.”
― E.A. Bucchianeri, Vocation of a Gadfly
1
Religion is the opiate of the masses. Religion is superstition. Religion is a belief in invisible beings. Religion is separated from Government by the Constitution.
Barr is a closed mind which expresses hatred for the other in fancy words and circular arguments. He is immune to critical thinking. A truly theocratic servant of the great ruler.
1
"European nations are far less religious than we are; they also have much lower homicide rates, and rarely experience the mass shootings that have become almost routine here." Kinda kills the "more evangelicals, less crime" argument. Still think of the corrosive hypocrisy here. The sociopath in the WH using his office for financial gain and undermining our constitution and laws with reckless abandon (Barr and 45 obstructing Mueller investigation into Russian election interference for example). There's a reason Barr and 45 are threatened with jail time here. This phony claiming to be Christian, somehow moral, by one of our least Christian behaving WH ever is mind boggling. Tearing families apart and putting their children in cages w/o adequate care or protection is a profound unChristian act. Taking people healthcare away because they can't afford it is antithetical to being Christian.
1
Conservatives invoke God as if it’s THE ultimate trump card, for “who can argue with God?”
There is some irony to the title, the God of the Hebrew Scripture is much like Trump, angry, vindictive, jealous of His standing, prone to outbursts, doing things seemingly on a whim that gets people killed (for example, the story of Jericho, where he tells the Jews it is okay to kill the people living there because he wants that to be a place of his people). The God that demands a man sacrifice his son to him (only to tell him at the last minute "Hey, Fella, I wasn't serious"), or the way he plagues Job, or the way he seemingly damns innocent people, reminds one a lot of Trump's behavior, if read literally. The Hebrew God and the stories told are meant to teach lessons of faith and belief, but if read literally are eerily much like the Donald and the crazed followers in the Hebrew Scripture reminds me of Trump nation a lot.
@music observer
In the Torah there are at least two versions of G-d. The older version is vindictive and terrifying; the later version is loving and compassionate. It seems that over time the Jewish vision of G-d evolved from that common among groups at the time of Abraham to a much more compassionate G-D consistent with the evolution of civilization more generally.
If only we could tell the difference between a person who speaks for God and a self-righteous phony with a political agenda.
What's so frightening about Barr is he actually believes in the nonsense and lies he spews and does so in such a smooth calm voice, convinced he's telling the truth to back up Trump's claim that there's a deep state out there somewhere and the liberal press is the enemy of the people.
Yet another reason why we should stop pretending to respect superstition. We should attack zealotry, not accommodate it. By not attacking it, we enable theocrats like the High Priest, Bill Barr.
There has been a multi-decade organized and well funded effort to implant religion into politics. These are but a few of the players that have brought us to the brink of a constitutional crisis.
National Review - William Buckley founded 1955
Moral Majority founded in 1979 by Jerry Falwell
Focus on the Family - founded 1977 by James Dobson
Christian Broadcasting Network - Pat Robertson
The 700 Club
The Family Channel
Family Research Council
Religious Roundtable Council - Ed McAteers
Ronald Reagan - 1980-1988
Christian Coalition - created 1989 by Pat Robertson
Christian Voice - Robert Grant
Free Congress Foundation - Paul Weyrich
The Heritage Foundation
BreakPoint - Charles Colson began in 1991
George W. Bush - 2000 - 2008
Eric Cantor - House Majority Leader 2011-2014
Family Research Institute
Bob Jones University
Christendom College
Liberty University
Regent University
Mormons
LDS
Glen Beck
Mitt Romney
6
We Dems don't get it. Evangelicals are actually irrelevant they reliably vote Dixiecrat-Republican and live mainly in red states. The biggest prize in a national election is swing voters in swing states.
These are Catholics, who form up to to 25% of the electorate PA, OH, MI, MN, and WI. Hillary turned down an invitation to speak at Notre Dame U., nowadays progressive as well as iconic among Catholic institutions.
By dumping Midwestern (and "Ethnic") Catholics in with the white Evangelical religion business, the Dems seem again about to hand Trump a slim but winning margin. Liberals also took the bait to discard Al Franken, the only senator whom the GOP truly feared. He was both an entertainer (better than Trump) and a Wonk, like Hillary.
Two things First, the presidential winners in modern times are often candidates who know how to use the modern media, starting with FDR and continuing through JFK, Reagan, Bill Clinton, Obama, and Trump. Second, Catholics are on average more wealthy and more educated. Loose talk about White Evangelicals as representative Christians and cliches about "the lower class" are ignorant blunders. Many Catholics are. indeed. manipulated into becoming single abortion-issue voters; yet, many others see themselves as the heirs to a magnificent culture and instruments of social justice who supplied the votes to implement progressive polices.
2
many of us have been worrying about Trump's mental state, but we should pay more attention to Barr's mentality. i have not found the answers to my own questions: Why, for a person like Barr who had enjoyed good reputation, decided to return to be Attorney General, lied at his confirmation hearing, and lied after he got the job, and acts as Trump's ( personal) minion ? what was his intention ? what will happen to Barr after Trump is gone ( he will, one day, even after, unfortunately, serving out his 2 terms)? what does he expect to accomplish or get out of this term of AG ? his name tainted forever in history ?
1
As Dr. Krugman says, this tactic is a sign of desperation. All people of good will, regardless of their beliefs, need to continue actively to support the Constitution and the rule of law, and in that case this desperate strategy won't succeed. In particular, the more responsible a position that anyone holds, the more that person needs to hold onto allegiance to the Constitution and not to any political leader, regardless of that leader's party or position on the political spectrum. If people start receiving illegal orders, they'll probably realize it.
What makes Republicans call me a liberal is that I want to help people less fortunate than myself.
Kind of sounds like a Christian but so many Christians I know go to church on Sunday and say buyer beware Monday through Friday.
I want to pay more taxes to help those laid off factory workers with retraining and health care.
I want to give women birth control so they don’t have unwanted pregnancies and don’t have to consider abortion.
But for them, I am the liberal elite and the bad guy.
Go figure.
Obviously, the Republicans have great marketing. In fact, it is Orwellian.
8
when trump first selected barr as AG, i remembered him well enough to be very concerned. but other people rushed to defend barr. i'm waiting for those initial barr apologists to confess their "errors"--because their initial support for barr induced senators and the press to be more accepting of barr's confirmation.
barr is obviously a bad guy, which should have become obvious from his response to the mueller report--lying to the public about its contents. that likely was an obstruction of congress. he should be high on the list of those people who deserve criminal enforcement focus after 2020.
3
Religious training or belief is not needed in order to have a moral code. The Code of Hammurabi was written in 1754 BC, centuries before Christianity arrived, and it contains virtually all of the rules that showed up in the Ten Commandments. The AG is playing to the evangelical desire to feel picked on.
4
When I think they can't do or say anything more outrageous than the day before, they do. An Attorney General at Notre Dame of all places spouting hate and bigotry is beyond the pale.
488
@Enough
The hypocrisy in young Barr is strong. Barr posits that secularist's are the root of all evil. Yet this is the administration that wanted to bar all Muslim's, people of faith, from entering America because they viewed them as a threat. Significant portions of the evangelical wing of the Republican party would not vote for Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon. You may disagree with the theology of the Mormon faith but you would have to be a idiot to attribute secularism to that religion. Barr isn't defending religion. Barr is defending one faith. And that is unconstitutional.
27
@Enough Given who the AG is it seems "spot on".
5
@Enough
To add to the irony, it was at Notre Dame's *law school* where AG gave his speech.
9
William Barr is turning out to be a DEEPLY worrying figure. His behavior as Attorney General is totally unacceptable.
11
It helps, even if you deeply dislike this AG and his boss and his party of enablers,(as I do) to actually address his arguments. You missed the irony in his address to law students.
The central thesis isn't atheism or secularism is evil per se; it is the argument that it has become the new religion. A new belief system with all the worst parts of the old dogmas: intolerance, group think, persecution of dissenters. The view that there is only one truth, one way of developing programs, one creed to which we must all shout hosanna.
That is a viewpoint that needs to be engaged and rebutted not just sneeringly dismissed with an hysterical resort to pogroms and the ghetto. I confidently think the UND students he was addressing care more about their football program and becoming ethical lawyers than replicating Kristallnacht. Get a grip Mr. Krugman.
@Unworthy Servant
"The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion; the nation’s chief law enforcement officer has no business denouncing those who exercise that freedom by choosing not to endorse any religion."
The problem is that the AG should not be giving speeches like this, period. He is supposed to be representing the entire United States of America, not just Trump and his supporters.
1
@Unworthy Servant
You are saying Barr was being ironic in his speech to the law students at Notre Dame? This is not Andy Kaufman, this is the Attorney General. What he says, he means. Get a grip, eh? Mr. Barr is the one who needs a grip.
2
While Trump may be happy to cynically use religion to rally his base, many in his administration (Barr, Pence, Pompeo, DeVos, et al.) are full-fledged Christian Nationalists. Barr has been saying these kinds of things for decades.
3
On January 1, 1802, Thomas Jefferson wrote the following - published in a Massachusetts newspaper - that, “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God.….thus building a wall of separation between Church & State”. Article Six of the United States Constitution also specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” Elected officials should be banned from cozying up to any religious organization, much like they should be banned from taking funds from the NRA or arms manufacturers. I know this is a pipe dream, but just saying…….
5
Understandable why the most square-peg round-hole problem solver would agree with Barr. (And he didn’t just declare that secularism is bad; he declared that the damage it does is intentional: “This is not decay. It is organized destruction.”). From a Christian perspective, AGs conclusions would be among the first things evident, in a cause and effect analysis of Americas condition.
“These days, around a fifth of Americans say that they don’t consider themselves affiliated with any religion… “ “America has certainly become less religious over the past quarter century, with a large rise in the number of religiously unaffiliated and growing social liberalism...”
MAGA: As in only a quarter century ago? (<'92?)
No one can misconstrue Barr's intentionality at giving the sort of speech at Notre Dame calling on one of the bastions of religion a real "come to Jesus" speech meant to shake listeners up, preaching to the choir, as it were. Absurd for this AG who acts on behalf of the amoral liar-in-chief. Such hypocrisy is-- well, --simply breathtaking. The sincerity as Barr bends over the lectern mocks the actions he is undertaking on orders from his boss. This is exactly why secularism is so very important in our nation and how we can be so easily misled by the distractions of both religiosity and, as stated here, patroitism from Samuel Johnson.
3
Yet another reason to not vote for theocrats. I'm so sick of the superstitious pretending to have such high moral standards. All things being equal, I'd rather have my life in the hands of an atheist than a zealot. How did Barr not learn the 1st amendment in law school?
3
"The handmaids Tale" is barely fiction. Oh what great irony as Barr, Trump etc try to consolidate their power by offering Evangelicals a "Christian" version of Sharia law and make us look a little bit more like Saudi Arabia even as we look a lot more like Putin's Russia. Enough gnashing of teeth. Trump and his minions have declared obvious open war on the Constitution. If you re not 100% for him,better figure out how you are going to defend yourself and your family, much less any "principles" you might care about. This isn't a "maybe" or "Gosh look what might happen". It is happening. Now.
1
If you can reach such a high level of authority in government and *still* not realize that secular people are good normal people...I don't know. It's just upsetting.
4
The bible says nothing about organized religion, other than Jesus calling the pharisees hypocrites several times. The basic message of the bible is to be a good person, something that can be accepted by believers and non believers alike.
For sure organized religion has been one source to teach morals, but they don't have a monopoly on it or an exclusive government license.
Morals can be taught by moral leadership, I would challenge Mr. Barr to comment on whether our President displays that or not.
6
When the main line churches embraced the Old Testament, especially Ecclesiastes, they seem to have forgotten the New Testament with its Sermon on the Mount. That is when people began to ignore them.
Barr and John Adams, whom he quotes in his speech, are right on one thing: our constitutional government alone cannot guarantee the sustainability of our “great experiment.” But Barr is wrong that more religion is the answer to our perennial challenge of sustainability.
More religion may fit the political framework of other, more homogenous countries without a pluralistic democratic founding philosophy, but his theocratic vision is alien to our national idea of freedom and fair play in a context of pluralism.
Specifically, on religious grounds, Barr wants the government to support religious women’s health centers that censor information and deny services, while ending government support to Planned Parenthood. His vision may be principled, but it is narrow and divisive, here in America.
1
What would Jesus do? Impeach.
7
Remember when the hurricane hit Houston?
Joel Osteen would not open up his church to the community, because they might mess up his new carpet.
What would Jesus do?
8
I find it extremely depressing that so many people such as Paul Krugman don't see how valuable it is to have religious/spiritual beliefs that underpin behavior. That was Bill Barr's point which somehow has been distorted beyond recognition of what he actually said. Without a strong moral compass ( such as "love your God and love others as yourself "in Christianity, or prize "compassion" and" throw out the sins of greed, anger and ignorance" in Buddhism), society is an empty shell which values only material wealth and power. Clearly secular atheists think this is nonsense and of course that is their right, but they seem to ignore the fact that the traditions and beliefs that provide a rationale for ethical behavior among our population generally arose from religion. I"m not quite sure a belief only in the here and now provides a strong moral foundation on its own. It seems to me that the erosion of religious beliefs and training has aided the coarsening and superficiality of our political, economic and social environment.
55
@JEH Paul isn't saying that secular people don't have morals, ethics and good values. They just don't have organized religions to direct and, unfortunately, often distort those morals and values and, in my view, that's a healthy situation.
192
@JEH
Many atheists have strong moral compasses too, you know.
To suggest that they don't, as AG, not only ignores that fact, but actively cultivates the myth that when it comes to freedom of religion, not all citizens are equal, some must be rejected as being by definition "amoral" because of their beliefs. That's anti-constitutional.
And it's pretty weird coming from an AG who accepts to work for one of the most amoral presidents in history.
910
@JEH
Sociobiology indicates we are hard wired for both altruism and cooperation... and our biology precedes any cultural manifestation of religion. It may be more useful to think of religion(s) as clothing on the body. The belief "only in the here and now" is a mischaracterization of secular ethics.
145
Trump will embrace religion as long as God continues to pay His way. At the first sign that this is no longer the case Trump will dump God just like he dumped the Kurds. EVERYTHING Trump does is a business transaction, and his supporters would do well to remember that the man went bankrupt on a number of occasions and his supporters paid the price.
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I agree that playing the God card against Trumps enemies aka known as the majority of American people is a desperate response to the walls closing in on the trumpian regime. What a yet another horrifying situation has emerged, where Trump's pulling out troops in Syria has re-opened the door for ISIS attacks on Syrian Christians, rendering most American Christian Evangelical leaders tongue-struck.
A note to some fellow commenters: I don't believe Trump is amoral, but rather squarely immoral going against universal (secular and religious) standards of decency such as imprisoning of young children.
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I agree with Krugman that stoking the fires of religious sectarianism won't work in a nation whose population is increasingly secular in practice and theory, and that this particular ploy is just a symptom of the desperation of a spectacularly unpopular, inept, and cynical administration facing what is clearly its oncoming political demise and pulling out all the stops to see what might serve to deflect its implacable doom. The problem is that Trump and his Republican berserkers are bent on making their doom ours as well. These people won't go quietly, and if they have their way they will leave only smoking rubble behind them.
I believe many evangelicals and proudly professed religious people will be sadly disappointed when they have their one on one sit down with the Almighty and She/He runs the tape of their lives and asks: "Now tell me where I fit in all of that hatred?"
It is beyond surreal that a religious warrior, as Barr seems to want to be, affiliates himself with a man who has broken every commandment and who very obviously has no idea what a moral life with spiritual values would look like. Barr is not just in charge of our justice system, but claims higher virtue than us "secularists," even after lying for Trump from the moment he took office and being derelict in his duties as Attorney General in almost every way. True religious and moral values have nothing to do with the hypocrisy displayed by Barr.
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The "minority" to which you refer is democracy's biggest challenge. They are firmly entrenched and stubborn to a fault. Trump, Barr, Pompeo, Giuliani . . . all represent the worst failings America must confront.
Each debate become more important as does the need for a strong candidate to step forward and be recognized as the candidate most able to confront and repair the damage done.
This speech by Barr is part of a last ditch, Hail Mary attempt by conservatives to rally the troops in their losing battle to turn back the clock in America to the way things were in 1950. A time when everyone knew their place. When blacks, women and gays knew what they could and could not do. But the country has progressed from those days living up to true Christian values such as concern for the poor and to love others as one loves himself.
Conservatives fear change, and the most significant change they fear is that the country is turning less white. So they turn to organized religion and phony politicians like Trump and Barr to try to impose their beliefs on others. It won't work. The country is becoming more liberal and less religious all the time. Unfortunately it will get very ugly before it gets better with the unbalanced tyrant that is Trump currently in charge.
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Evangelicals, like Barr, want to put God into a box marked no abortion, no same-sex marriage, etc. Any theologian worth their salt will tell you God cannot put into a box. God is the essence of freedom called love, unconditionally.
Putting God into a box is the root cause of extreme violence. The Crusades and ISIS are perfect examples. It fits nicely into Trump's goal of authoritarian and no one thinks for themselves.
Shame on the University of Notre Dame for allowing the exhibition of such hypocrisy and demagoguery on its campus. I am a Catholic and find talks like Barr's frightening.
Krugman is right, God help us.
Evangelicals, like Barr, want to put God into a box marked no abortion, no same-sex marriage, etc. Any theologian worth their salt will tell you God cannot put into a box. God is the essence of freedom called love, unconditionally.
Putting God into a box is the root cause of extreme violence. The Crusades and ISIS are perfect examples. It fits nicely into Trump's goal of authoritarian rule, and no one thinks for themselves.
Shame on the University of Notre Dame for allowing the exhibition of such hypocrisy and demagoguery on its campus. I am a Catholic and find talks like Barr's frightening.
Krugman is right, God help us.
3
There is no one more implacable and dangerous than someone who believes they hear the word of god and you don't. And just how these self-righteous religious folks square their beliefs with trump's behavior is beyond comprehension.
4
Oh, fear, hatred, nihilism, faithlessness—the usual, I expect.
For the Attorney General of the United States serving his boss, Donald J. Trump to call out secularism as constitutionally damaging is like calling Abraham Lincoln a traitor (which many people did). The suggestion is as obscene in its hypocrisy as it is absurd.
But this is the condition of today's Republican Party, which includes Trump but is not of Trump. It is Trump who is of the GOP.
2
There are some folks who want the "culture war" to be an actual war, and it ain't us atheists. How many people who make a show of their so-called Christianity actually try to live according to Christ?
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
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I wonder if the evangelicals recognize how much damage their identification with Trump is doing to their brand of Christianity. In effect, they are besmirching the reputation of Jesus.
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Question ... if God is almighty, why does he need people like Trump to do his work? The separation of church and state was truly 'divine wisdom', and evangelicals should keep that in mind.
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God is not using Trump. Trump is using God. I'm going to keep saying that.
Barr and the whole rotten gang are an excellent reason the Founders believed in separation of Church and State.
Also, an excellent illustration of the insane belief that people cannot separate their professional life from their politics and religious beliefs. A Trump trope that needs to be destroyed.
2
Did you see the State Department website's paean to Christian leadership? Pompeo gave a speech all about it.
Things may look bleak, but we do have signs that the good guys are winning.
Keep the faith.
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Why would a devout Christian attack the very people his god calls him to minister to -- non-believers? Those "militant secularists" he condemns for corrupting our society are individuals who could be brought into the fold by persuasion, by acts of compassion and material aid, and by the lived example of believers. Barr instead makes them the enemy, beyond the reach of God's grace. That is not any kind of Christianity I know and practice imperfectly. I don't want to debate what a "true Christian" in Attorney General Barr's position would say and do, but I will say that scapegoating any group of law-abiding American citizens for the ills of society is an abuse of his secular authority that no patriotic American -- Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or "none of the above" -- should tolerate. History, and even current events in other countries, shows us where scapegoating leads.
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Counter example to the notion that secularization decreases violence: 20th century.
this is the right time for this piece. well done.
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Many of those commenting here are mistaken in thinking that AG Barr is somehow an evangelical.
He is NOT.
He is a right-wing, ultra-conservative Catholic, a member of that sect's activist wing who are pushing not only for the reversal of Roe v. Wade, but also of Griswold v. Connecticut, which rendered unconstitutional legislation against the selling of birth control drugs and paraphernalia.
His speech, and the animus against "secularism" that it promotes, presages the imposition of something like Christian sharia law in the US, at least regarding gender and sexual issues, if the right-wing Catholics, allied with evangelicals, get their way.
Do you want to live in the equivalent of 1950s Franco Spain? If not, wake up and small the coffee Barr and others of his persuasion (Gorsuch and Kavanaugh among them) have in mind for all of us.
Barr is willing to align himself with someone who according to own strict religious values he should despise. What do you suppose would restrain him now from using all his powers to destroy the individual freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution?
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Good article. Just the inane attempt to build their case against AntiFa and others. They won’t denounce white supremacy (or the groups that wallow in it), in fact Trump quotes them and coddles them. It’s desperation at its worse. I’d say we the people, help ourselves and kick these bums out!
Abuse of the opiate of the masses can harm not only the abuser but also those around them.
I sincerely believe that most people see through AG Barr's desperate attempts to explain what Trump has done and will continue to do until he is removed from the presidency.
That Barr is trying to drag God into this Superfund Site called the Trump administration shows just how desperate he is. Either that or Barr is trying to show God he is sorry for cosigning Trump's corruption.
1
Barr’s hypothesis seems to be that secularism—lack of religion—is the is the root cause of societal ills. But given that this is Bill Barr, this might be prudent to check. One way could be to compare less religious, with more religious nations.
So, compare highly irreligious with highly religious countries and what do you find? Turns out the most secular nations—those with the highest rates of atheism and agnosticism—are generally healthy, free, peaceful, wealthy, and stable societies. The most religious countries, however—those with the highest rates of belief and closest integration of religion into society and government—are among the most authoritarian, violent, poor, and unstable.
One certainly must take into account that in a number of totalitarian nations, atheism was forced on society (i.e., the former Soviet states, Mao’s China, North Korea, etc.). The emotional belief in and adoration of an all-powerful father figure shifted from religion, to the country’s authoritarian leader. It is unsurprising that nations with this variety of forced atheism share the societal ills—economic stagnation, censorship, repression, and corruption—of the most religious countries.
And the contrast is striking with open, democratic nations where organic and not coercive atheism is the choice of a free, well-educated, and prosperous population (Netherlands, Japan, the Nordics).
So, which model is it that Barr—and his would-be authoritarian Dear Leader—would have us choose?
Is the guy in the green cloak holding the famous Holy Hand Grenade from Monty Python's The Holy Grail?
Trump is the perfect candidate for the evangelical Christians. Like their leaders, he fleeces his people, spouts religious and moral doctrine he would never follow himself, and relies upon racist tropes to frighten the flock. Barr fits this team perfectly, no surprise he is leading the effort to trash our constitution and make us into a Evangelical country. It's sad that he is doing it from the Justice Dept.
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Looking forward to the day when Mr. Barr receives his 'personal invitation' to attend the soiree known as the House impeachment inquiry....and I feel that day is coming soon. His behavior is the absolute antithesis to that of the Attorney General of the United States.
Barr may be seeing his long plan (replacing RBG as Supreme Court Justice) falling apart with the possibility of the President being impeached.
Perhaps he is laying out now what he had in mind to implement on the Supreme Court.
Barr reminds me of some of the conservative factions in the Vatican who justified their criminality by imagining it as necessary to support their absolute doctrinaire views.
This may be Barr's way of dealing with the inevitable fact that soon, he too will be in the cross hairs of the House impeachment inquiry. One can only hope...
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How could the congress have confirmed this man? An anti American pro theocracy AG has no standing in my view.
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Citizen/ Attorney General Barr, should have Informed himself, with the Speech Of Senator Barry Goldwater on Conservatism, Religion and Politics, 1981.
Here is a relevant quote.
" The religious factions that are growing in our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their positions 100 percent.....
"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C', 'D'.....
'This unrelenting obsession with a particular goal destroys the perspective of many decent people. They have become easy prey to manipulation and misjudgment.............
Consequently a countervailing universe has been visited on the evolving American Experience......... A President Trump, and A Bill Barr,........all claiming the House Sensitivity of Conservatism........what would Madison think.
If only everyone understood that Evangelicals are a clearly identifiable subculture that have been targeted by Russian internet trolls, and then manipulated by fake news amplified by their high trust of their fellow Evangelical peers, who propagate and reinforce Trumpism via Facebook, then you might have some more compassion on why they have gone astray and why our nation is more at risk than ever before. The solution is not to hate Christians. As a dissident insider, I can testify that many good people of all kinds have been weaponized through social media. Next to none of my church friends in Texas will read the NYT because of fear that they will be brainwashed by satanic “liberal bias” or at least lose an argument against “secular elites.” But right now many are losing faith in Fox and Trump and some of us are trying to dislodge them with a tool that works — the Bible, which is poorly handled by those who do not read it daily. Our secular FBI and other investigative bodies must win the battle of showing Trump is a product (if not outright agent) of foreign enemies. Republican senators need to see solid evidence that cannot be explained away. Brainwashing is real and people are being pulled into ideological bubbles that are designed to break our unity as a nation, under secular law, yes, but established for freedom of religion. Do not become part of the Tyranny.
When times get tough, hold a hate rally, identity an “enemy,” and portray yourself as a victim. This had been the Trump playbook. But it’s far from an original strategy.
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Forgive the pun, but Barr's speech was a Hail Mary pass to try to save Criminal Trump's game. Then again, nothing Barr does now surprises me. He's Trump's Chef - the protector that cleans up after the criminal wrecks havoc on our democracy.
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Barr is purely Machiavellian. Republicans have been using religion to divide and conquer the electorate for many years. Ever since Ike put god on the currency and in the pledge of allegiance, we've had these scamming culture wars that have allowed the elite to skim the profits from an economy where people would rather be poor than equal.
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.” Seneca
Wow. So I am personally responsible for increased violence, drug problems and mental illness in this country because I don’t attend church? Good thing I don’t believe US citizens were granted the Constitutional right to own assault weapons, eh? Then I’d really be dangerous, on top of being morally bankrupt.
How arrogant (unethical, desperate, blasphemous, anti-democratic) can these Republican politicians and evangelical preachers be to claim that God is on the side of Trump?
Speaking of corruption, look no further than the Catholic church hierarchy and these hypocritical, self-aggrandizing evangelical ministers to understand why so many Americans have left religious organizations and no longer go to church. The child molestation scandal and coverup in the Catholic church did it for us and a lot of Catholics who no longer attend mass.
Something went terribly wrong when religion more recently became intwined in politics. The founding father really knew what they were doing when they advocated for the separation of church and state, which is particularly important in a democratic country with a number of different religions and sects represented.
I think it was Karl Rove's bright idea to court/dupe the fundamentalists and evangelicals as cannon fodder for the GOP's rapacious agenda to create an authoritarian have-not society for the rich and big corporations, with low taxes, weak government, few regulations, and taking as much as possible away from the middle class and especially the poor.
In fact, we could say that the GOP has a reverse Jesus agenda. No Sermon on the Mount for the Trump henchmen: Blessed are the poor, the merciful, the peacemakers.... Ha!
Regarding Barr's blasphemous speech, I think there is a good god-reaction New Yorker cartoon to be drawn here
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Everything is about being reelected. This is the goal. The election depends on the "base". The Base is made of many born agains, they are convinced they are the chosen ones,
Trump was sent to protect them, the "others" are trying to steal their faith and they need assurance that they will be protected. Barr andTrump recognize this and play right to it. They ran into a bit of a problem with abandoning the kurds, many are christians, and trump abandoned them to the naughty muslims. By attacking those liberals they are trying to make up for this.
What are saying the Evangelical Pastors to their weekly attendance about immigration, and loving your brother in the churches they own in some Latin America cities such as Miami, Houston, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Central America and Haiti? We would like to hear something, say, from the Rock Church in Bogota, or Miami. "Pare de sufrir" -Stop the suffering- is their catch-phrase-. Really?
As an elementary classroom teacher for almost forty years, my classroom guidelines were simple and direct-kindness, respect, honesty. These traits were the building blocks of my classroom community as we worked together and supported each other. I needed no Bible or daily Christian prayer to teach these values to my students. Indeed, they are universal and worthy regardless of any student's religion.
However, over the last several years I have noticed a growing and public voice expressed by many of my former colleagues stating a desire to return Christian prayer and Bible teaching to public school. They truly believe that daily prayer in the classroom will eliminate all social ills, and much of their support for this administration is based on the idea that Donald Trump is God's chosen leader to make our country Christian again. The fact that many of these educators walk into increasingly diverse and multi cultural classrooms doesn't seem to matter. Apparently disenfranchising and alienating students within the walls of their classrooms doesn't appear to concern them either. And most fail to even grasp the idea that their unwavering support for a "leader" who most certainly does not embody the virtues of kindness, respect, or honesty might be the very definition of hypocrisy!
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@Terri McLemore Christian prayer and Bible teaching in public school should be against the law and saved for churches. How would Jewish, Mormons, Muslims and other groups feel if that were to take place when they don't follow the teachings of the Bible.
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Paul Krugman is correct about the increasing acceptance of atheists and secularists, more now willing to so identify publicly. Some identify as atheists only after retirement to avoid harming their careers. Many years ago, I went to an American Humanist Association convention; it was vastly dominated by old people that the AHA's magazine editor assured us, "This is not a dying organization; we'll recruit more old people."
On the relation of religion and violence, going by self-identification and violent behavior, Christians are the most violent, followed by Muslims, while the violence of Jews is very minor in comparison to both (I don't know enough history of Hindus or Buddhists to say how they rank). When we consider the violence of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, we shouldn't criticize the religionists on this issue.
Barr's views are common among religionists who view belief in God as a necessary foundation of ethics. Even if such views always result in pogroms against atheists and secularists, we ought defend his right to express his views -- like everyone else, he's entitled to speak his mind. And we're entitled to agree or disagree.
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I am disappointed with the focus of the article, with emphasis in criticizing the AG as a person and not addressing the issues and debating on the merits of his arguments on the social problems he highlights. But this approach is not unusual coming from he left when confronted with what they consider lecturing from the right: lets discredit the messenger, and avoid at any cost having a well-supported discussion of the topics being argued.
What about the discussion on personal responsibility, family destruction and the impact on society? These issues have nothing to do with Trump; they predate him by a lot. But nowadays is easier to put any difference of opinions under the Trump blanket, and continue preaching that all problems will be solved with more and more government programs.
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@Ricardo Barr said that secularism is "organized destruction". He is therefore setting himself up as hostile to the US constitution because that is entirely secular. This man cannot be the Attorney General. His own personal beliefs cannot be allowed to impinge on that position but he is allowing them to.
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I was a card-carrying Evangelical until my late 20's. once I began studying and traveling outside Evangelical circles I concluded that Evangelicalism is nothing more or less than a social club with strict membership rules. Logic, reason, and science are not important, and often get in the way. Evangelicallion is a worldview. It is non- rational. Emotional commitrent is key. You can overlook inconsistencies and rationalize most anything as long as you hold on to your "Christian" values.
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"Barr’s claim that secularism is responsible for violence happens to be empirically verifiable nonsense."
While AG Barr is in office, his guide should be the Constitution, not Trump's re-election campaign. Barr's personal views about US religious practices must wait until he is no longer AG.
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“Trump’s response to his predicament has been...”
The key word here is obviously PREDICAMENT.
Much of what we’ve seen lately out of Trump are more of the outrageousness he dished our in the past.
The fact that the likes of the AG of the US gets away with such a speech (well, minus responses such as this article)is plenty proof- to whomever is still listening and reflecting on what is being said and done here - that we’re indeed in a big(downhill) trouble.
And, once that downhill trend continues( with unsatisfactory conclusion of the next elections)- prof. Krugman’s prediction that ‘God will help us’- just may not be either forthcoming or sufficient to avert REALLY bad scenarios.
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All very reasonable, except for this:
"America has certainly become less religious over the past quarter century, with a large rise in the number of religiously unaffiliated and growing social liberalism on issues like same-sex marriage."
This sentence strongly implies that "growing social liberalism on issues like same-sex marriage" is a result of increased numbers of religiously unaffiliated people. But for many of us Christians, social liberalism on this and other issues is the direct result of our religious faith, not an abrogation of it. You can't "love your neighbor as yourself" and simultaneously deny him or her the right to exercise their own sexuality. Christianity itself (for those of us who aren't the fundamentalist evangelicals that mainstream press outlets persist in understanding as representative of the whole body of Christian believers) pushes in the opposite direction from homophobia and its social and political expressions.
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The world is not organized in a rational way as the Enlightenment thinkers postulated. It is a swirling mess of competing ideas, philosophies, religions, economic systems, short-term goals, convoluted conspiracies, cross purposes in the dark streets of intrigue, despair, filthy lucre, untreated disease, open sores, hope, blind faith, dissembling, evasion, doublespeak, half truths and outright lies, disorientation, chaos...
So what do you do to make some sense out of this, bring some order to this malevolent spicy instant soup? Social control: oppression, repression, propaganda, surveillance, data collection, retribution, the Boy Scout Prayer Garden merit badge, Fig Newtons, brain-washing, and the well-funded tithing reactionary neo-Puritan evangelical church at the top of the pyramid of Ponzi...
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I did not know that Trump was a member of the Mammon faith, but reading the comment from Red Sox, I learned this.
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What does an agnostic with dyslexia and insomnia do?
He lies awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog!
(If you are so uptight, inflexible or super-religious that you can't understand the humor, then maybe you are part of the problem Krugman describes.)
Everyone else, have a great day!
William Barr shows, as do the rest of Trump's toadies, that he despises what Jesus taught. What religion does he claim to adhere to?
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Don't discount the uneducated, working-class whites who don't go to church. They voted for Trump, too.
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All this said and being a catholic myself: how is it possible that in a secularized country such as the US, the president swears on the bible? Not to speak about your dollar bills with the "In God We Trust"-inscription.
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@Daniël Vande Veire
If one actually reads the bible, swearing on the bible and putting God on money are blasphemy.
America has always been a phony Christian nation.
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Two words for William Barr: John Mitchell.
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@Ziggy
One additional word: imprisoned.
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The whole point is a new Christian Dominionist Empire. Bottom line.
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Barr, Giuliani, Pompeo .. all arrived at the same "later in life" fork in the road and chose to board the Trump Train... It's like a weird Twilight Zone episode.
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Barr has certainly set the constitutional legal bar lower, just as low as the Catholic's legal bar, which has all but disappeared. I was one of the abused, and can speak of the Catholic institutional degradation over centuries by priests who prey on innocent children defended righteously by Catholic lawyers, a flock who Barr leads, who settle abuse cases based on the best deal that can be gotten, not the best recovery plan needed.
Barr's bar can go no lower now with his King of Abuse at the helm.
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Barr should be impeached for lying to Americans about the Mueller report considering he didn't read it himself. Kamela Harris gave him a gotcha moment in front of all of us who watched the hearing.
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God and man hate a coward. Until someone within both parties Democratic and Republican grows a spine we as a nation are doomed. Unfortunately my mind set is United States of America RIP. Heaven help us.
Just shows you, one can count on the AG to remind us the Justice Dept is there to tear down the pillars of our nation. As a reminder for those who defend Barr, it is the GOP that Barr is talking about. Is it intentional that the moral fabric of this nation is being attacked and destroyed by the GOP? Answer: Yes. And does anyone object to accepting Trump as the best example of a government employee that depends on his political base of those supporting racists, autocrats, liars, plutocrats, and sexists. And does Barr recall there are those in the M.E. that call themselves militant secularists that depend on our U.S. dollars so they can wage war, forever. Barr sure showed his colors at Notre Dame, and the colors of the GOP as well.
On the other hand, at this point what can save democracy in the US besides fairy tales and miracles?
I am blind to the darkness within the soul of Donald Trump; but, I know Trump has 20/20 vision into my weaknesses. He does not underestimate my limitations. He did not have family in harms way in any war and did not build a hotel in Normandy as the cemetery would not permit a golf course. So, Trump 2020 makes sense. My MAGA hat makes me feel strong, feeling great is easy and I just want to go to his abandoned hotel and casino in Atlantic City. It is a shrine to my messiah and I await for his return from Access Hollywood. He speaks in tongues however forked in all languages and moved by a spirit that knows the Apocalypse. Alleluia....Alleluia......
2
Before reading this piece this morning, I also read about Secretary Mike Pompeo's State Dep't web page portraying him as a "Christian leader". And just before that, I read in New Ways Minitries about The U.S. Catholic bishop's friend of the court brief filed with the Supreme Court which supports having the option to fire someone because of sexual orienatation.
These are all dangerous indicators. It seems to be an attempt to rally a pan -evangelic tide of support for the flailing republican party. For all the imagined terror of "Sharia Law in America", some folks seem intent on creating their own version of that with a Jesus-friendly spin. Get thee away.
3
Trump is emboldening authoritarians at home as well as abroad including conservative Christians with authoritarian beliefs. and this is a serious threat to our democracy. With Trump in power, Barr is speaking his views out loud as he believes this is the time to grab power and demonize many of us. I recommend taking a look at ex evangelical https://rewire.news/author/chrissy-stroop/.
I used to bend over backwards giving Christians the benefit of the doubt but now believe we need to take their words seriously and literally, and taking Barr seriously is alarming and explains his apparent inconsistencies to the Constitution and norms. His allegiance to Trump is a means for his consistent, authoritarian religious goals. Note, not every Christian or any other religion is authoritarian and its necessary to take each speaker's words and actions into account, just no more broad brush. The conservative debate between David French and Sohrab Ahmari takes on the differences between a democratic conservative and an authoritarian conservative (my words not theirs,)see https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/david-french-sohrab-ahmari-and-the-battle-for-the-future-of-conservatism.
No matter which political party or which religion one aligns with, ALL American Citizens with a working brain can observe the reality that the current POTUS has no working moral compass. Review his actions, his behavior and his rants on Twitter. Anyone paying attention has to have observed that Donald Trump does not serve the people of this country... he serves himself. What's worse, he has no problem breaking any law, ignoring the American Constitution or blatantly lying to serve himself. Donald Trump... alone... can not destroy this country. WE THE PEOPLE can stop this madness and stop it we must... NOW!
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Trump fits to perfection the Anti-Christ described in the Bible: a leader that, under false religious pretences, makes believe that he is divinely guided. Wake up Evangelist America. What if Trump really is the evil incarnation talked about by the Apostles? The signs are all there.
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According to some commenters here evangelicals have no problem with that, feeling that Trump will bring on the apocalypse that will bring the “end of days.” So they’re thrilled! Frightening.
Any destruction of delusion and ideology is fine by me, the more organized the better.
1
In the context in which Jesus speaks the words, “Render to Caesar,” the Jews are asking whether they should pay the extra tax imposed on them by the Romans. The coin they are required to pay the tax with bears Caesar’s likeness, so Jesus is saying more than just,” Pay your taxes.” He is slyly advising the Jews to return the idol to the wicked, idolatrous ruler. Thus does tax-paying become a sort of non-violent protest, not a knuckling under to the government. The things that are God’s are the Jews themselves, the Chosen People who do not make or worship graven images. They render themselves to God when they do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly. No amount of money is worth more than that.
I would, however, be fine with skipping all the esoteric stuff and making tax-evaders like trump and his ilk pay their fare tax share.
Jesus is the Christ in Christian. The Republican Party and evangelicals do not resemble the teachings of Jesus in any way.
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What was Barr doing at the Notre Dame Law School in the first place? Don't they understand he is a liar and a sham, unworthy of his law degree much less his position as Attorney General?
3
This is so horrendous, it should be a headline, not only an opinion piece! This is the Attorney General of the United States!
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Bash Barr for expressing what many Americans believe is happening. This is exactly why the Extreme Progressive Democratic Candidates will get Trump re-elected! The NYT should publish some of the comments made at the LBGT Town Hall as an example of how they alienate the mainstream.
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“...his truly enthusiastic support comes from religious leaders like Jerry Falwell Jr., who have their own ethical issues, but have called on their followers to ‘render to God and Trump.’”
If only there were some way to know how the Lord might respond to the false idolatry perpetuated by ‘prosperity preachers’. Oh well.
I've believed for a long time now that the oaths our far right Christians take on their Bible are meaningless, since they have every intention of breaking faith with us if they think their god requires it.
1
Krugman is dead wrong.
Trump's 'evangelical' followers have displaced the Creator God, instead by doing homage to the malignant narcissist god, i.e., Trump himself, who is the very incarnation of the Greek god Narcissus.
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Remembering that Elton John put lyrics to history in his refrain; "And the New York Times said God was dead". But he is not and the evidence is within you if you recognize you love justice, maybe not Barr, but Justice.
Barr is working for Trump's re-election, propping up support from evangelicals.
1
No, Paul, Barr has been talking & writing like this for 25+ years. It didn't just start in defense of Trump.
https://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/we-have-some-questions-for-attorney-general-nominee-william-barr
There are links to other pieces about his fundamentalist Catholicism & public displays of same.
MSM has to stop being terrified of covering the radical fundamentalism that is what the press calls 'evangelism'.
These aren't Jimmy Carter evangelicals. They are the Christian version of the Taliban & want to establish theocracy.
But, like all extremism in the Republican Party the MSM has pretty much ignored it until it's close to being too late.
If Trump, just very hypothetically, had credible information indicating Bill Biden had actually engaged in treason, murder, mayhem and rape and the President of Ukraine had definitive evidence of this - would the Democrats still posit the same argument against Trump about election laws and foreign interference, yada, yada, yada? I hope not. So where do we draw the line? Let's get a hold of ourselves and start thinking rationally. Or is the real plan just to get rid of Trump, at any cost, regardless of any real wrong-doing.
Barr’s point is that the Left has a new secular religion, that bans free speech with PC shaming and demands all followers march lock step to the music of the MSM. Very intolerant, very condescending and narrow minded but most importantly, willing to lie, fabricate stories, and smear opponents—because they are doing their God’s work.
“Militant secularists” like me are causing “intentional, organized destruction”?
Darn it, I didn’t get the memo.
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The State Dept's home page for several hours featured a photo of Pompeo giving a speech and the headline, "Being a Christian Leader." We've gone full theocracy.
On October 11, the U.S. Department of State’s home webpage was headlined by, “Being a Christian Leader” with a large photo of Pompeo and highlighting his speech last week at the American Association of Christian Counselors World Counselors. I object to my taxpayer dollars being used to promote his brand of “Christian” faith, which is anything but the kind of example Jesus set. This is a dangerous breach of our Constitutional protection of freedom of religion, which implicitly includes my right to be free from his religion and his religious hypocrisy.
I think back to a little noticed comment Barr made at his confirmation hearing. In a discussion about prosecuting leakers, he said they might have to jail journalists who “hurt the nation”. I would guess that Barr has already decided that many journalists at the Times and Post are “hurting” the nation with their criticism, and a DOJ campaign against them will be a feature of any second Trump term.
Do these fellows read the New Testament, particularly the words of Jesus? Doesn't seem like it.
And among the law students and their professors present at AG William Barr’s ugly, anti-constitutional rant were there really none who recognized how inappropriate and dangerous his rhetoric was and protested during or after the speech?
Shame on an institution of higher learning like the University of Notre Dame that endorses such “religious hate speech.”
It's all make believe to get control over people.
Please, please, please do not mistake zealotry like Barr’s for the perspective of most believers.
Over the years, Notre Dame has had many speakers, including me, who believe in the fundamental equality of all conscientious epistemologies.
David Burrell, Notre Dame theology department chair, wrote a book about “knowing the unknowable God” replete with the post enlightenment sophistication about belief.
People like Barr are ignorant of the good, as Socrates understood that we all are, because we are fallible.
His failure is not religion, but epistemic arrogance. Secularists are every bit as, but no more, arrogant. None of us is omniscient.
1
On the other hand, Evangelical leader Pat Roberson has declared himself to be "absolutely appalled that the United States is going to betray those Democratic forces in northern Syria."
https://www.newsweek.com/televangelist-trump-middle-east-kurds-christians-massacred-syria-1463680
The amount of hate that spews from religion will always astound me. I grew up going to church, and even for a while preached the gospel of Jesus Christ on the streets in my small West Texas town. As I became more deeply involved in the large fundamentalist churches that are so popular in the south, I soon realized that the message was becoming less and less "for" the gospel and more and more "against" those who didn't believe what 'we' believe.
Churches full of part-time Christians who relished in looking down their noses at those who weren't religious enough. All the while, cheating on their spouses, cheating in their business dealings. The list goes on and on.
Of course, Jesus' message is that we're ALL sinners ("Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"). But the message now seems to be "Let him who is with Christ cast the first stone". The more fundamentalist the religion it seems, the more willing to cast stones. At the non-religious. At Muslims. At Mexicans. At Mormons. Anyone who they define as the "other".
Barr, as a Catholic, should be weary. The deeper down the rabbit hole you dive into Christian fundamentalism, the more Catholicism is viewed as the "other" as well. Just ask Pastor Robert Jeffress, Trump's minister of hate:
"Much of what you see in the Catholic Church today doesn’t come from God’s word; it comes from that cultlike, pagan religion."
https://aoh.com/2017/10/26/nothing-wonderful-about-catholic-biogotry/
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@Mark: The Roman Catholic Church was established by the Nicene Council convened 300 years after the death of Jesus to massage a discordant collection of legends into a state religion for a military empire.
Regarding A G Barr, Lincoln's observations applies. " If you want to test a man's character, give him power."
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I am Catholic—practicing and purposeful. William Barr’s comments are an affront to the traditional teachings of the Church. Secularism nor any other “ism” is a threat to the Faith. It is the likes of Barr reducing the faith to a narrow partisan talking point—and a U.S. political talking point at that. I know some U.S. Protestants try to reduce Christianity to an American right wing political party, But Catholicism is universal, it knows no nationality or race, Jesus Christ blessed all of humanity and Christ needed no government, no Donald Trump, to bring hope and redemption to the world. Barr’s words insult the faithful.
5
I just finished reading an article and book review on the origin of the "original" Crimean War", and what the participants were interested in gaining from it. Anyone who still thinks studying history serves no purpose should take a look.
What our president has done, is made it more possible for the Russians to achieve the goal they have historically coveted: access to the Mediterranean. We now have a situation whereby the alignment of Turkey with the West (and NATO) is severely threatened. Turkey controls the Bosporus; NATO controls the Bosporus. Putin now controls Crimea and Sevastopol, and if NATO is forced to reject Turkey, should Russia attack, then only Gibraltar and good old John Bull (and us?) remain. It's Turkey, they want to control, not Syria.
As the articles indicated, religion and xenophobia played a large role in the incitement of the Crimean War, and now we're at it again. We should be kind to each other and wise from experience. We shouldn't expect God to stop wars and mass slaughter, as He doesn't seem to have the time or even the will to stop innocent toddlers from falling out of fifth story windows or running out into traffic. We know what we should do, but then, we're only people.
1
You can't really separate Christianity from the far right. Right wing views on government and race are hopelessly entangled with religion. The KKK was burning crosses. People who have attended Tea Party rallies have noted the inclusion of religion not just calls for less government. The extreme religious right was brought into the Republican Party when Reagan was in office. Many Evangelicals believe Trump is a vessel being used by God to do God's will. This is unbelievable dangerous because no matter what Trump does it can be justified as carrying out the will of God even though it hard for humans to understand the reason. This removes all limits on Trump. It is completely outside the rules for government that the founders of this country set up. You could say the US is actually two countries within the boundary of one nation state, one diverse and secular and one white supremacist and Christian.
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Well put on so many levels! Do the white evangelicals know that Trump took away one of their well earned tax deductions, home mortgage interest? How do they find this to be fair while Trump gave, basically, that money to the 1%'ers? Wasn't Trump's base angry about the 1%'ers who hijacked Wall Street? How can Trump's followers be swindled by this guy?
William Pelham Barr, just one syllable away from William Jennings Bryan. The Attorney General is going to have to ramp up his oratory and add a healthy dose of that old time religion to find his cross of gold. If he's going to do it, he has to find his shine. Perhaps someday we'll find him arguing before the Supreme Court for the removal of the teaching evolution in the classroom. The other William would have liked that.
All this from a man who said he had nothing to lose.
I converted to atheism after decades of torturing myself with religious rituals designed to please a vengeful God. The creator, my creator, I was warned, observed everything I did, heard my every word, knew my every thought. It was, to quote Chris Hitechens, like being a slave to a celestial North Korea.
This Trump omnipotent ruler role appeals to a large, fanatical Christian base. Be it Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham or Creflo Dollar, a strong, fearless Moses, sent from God to lead us is what is needed, not some Elizabeth Warren socialist. A leader who is tough but fair and always loving, even if he is imperfect. Praise the Lord! Never forget, they are told, we are the apple of his eye.
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The Trump evangelicals have accepted the bargain that Jesus rejected. After Jesus' long fast in the wilderness, Satan took him to a high place and offered him all sort of enticements, including kingship of the world, if Jesus would only worship him. Jesus rejected the offer. The Trump evangelicals have embraced the same bargain with an evil man who has even less power than the scriptural Satan. And they are so blinded by partisanship and Fox News that they don't even realize what they've done.
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I'll keep this simple. When Pres. Trump resigns we will have VP Pence leading our Nation. Barr is teeing things up for him. The religionists will be in out in full force and in high dudgeon. Be afraid!
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Shame on Notre Dame for inviting this man to speak and for not loudly condemning his words after they heard him. What a complete disgrace.
Consider some of the outrageous fundamentalist Christian claims in recent years. More severe hurricanes are God driven punishments for homosexuality. Popular music contains satanic spells. Evolution is a hoax. Man made climate change does not exist, and even if it does we can ignore it because God will take care of us. How can anyone hear these assertions, or Barr's recent statements, and not believe that the fundamental problem is the ignorance of the American people. Yes, Trump and his minions rely on and manipulate that ignorance, but they aren't the problem. Ignorance and absurd religious ideas are the problem. Yes, there are fewer and fewer adherents in civilized nations. People are evolving in Europe, Canada and other democratic areas. Fundamentalist religions are thriving in third world, often Muslim, nations. Unfortunately, that reality does not reveal much to fundamentalist Americans.
Articulate and thoughtful opinion, the evidence is clear, constant
distraction, absurd statements, lies, fraud, this admin.is a constant flow of dishonesty. america is waking up to this incompetence. religious freedom a american value, Mr. Barr is out of line, and a trump hack. another john Mitchell from Watergate,
America will prevail, these guys will and should be gone soon.
It might be worthwhile, in this case, to distinguish conspiracy from pure production pander. He was, afterall, speaking to an institution named for the Mother of Jesus. Another staged marketing event designed to agitate both sides. Dont fall for it. Don't profit from it.
When the power brokers of the wealthy, men such as Barr, Pompeo, and Trump speak on the subject of God and religion it is "as the tinkling of brass."
Kevin Philips wrote the book nearly 25 years ago: "American Theocracy"...(refuge of the scoundrel, as Prof. Krugman defines, "as the walls close in")
Am conservative in many ways, yet I am not about to point the finger at non Christians, secularists for the state of the country, because that would be an cheap excuse for the mess this country is in.
It grieves me to the core that there are people who profess to being Christians yet they do not speak up and denounce the un-Christlike words and actions of those in authority
My Bible tells meas a Christian I am to be held accountable and that I am to hold fellow believers accountable when un-Christlike words and deeds are done in the name of Christ.
It doesn't matter of you are the President, Vice President, Cabinet member, member of the House of Senate, adviser or friend to any of these folks, if you profess to be a Christ follower you must be held accountable and must hold them accountable!
Not to get preachy but the Bible reminds us that as Christians NO untruth should pass our lips. No appearance of not being honest in words or deed.
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For sure there are many people who call themselves 'Christian' who are moral, compassionate and selfless.
Contrastingly, M. Gandhi must have had evangelicals in mind when he said “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
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Tell me that they are not trying to position Trump as the new Messiah. Tell me that there are not people in this country who lack sufficient critical thinking skills to see through this. Please tell me.
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@Frank
You are going to be waiting for a very long time. Maybe you should come over here to SC and see if some of these folks can help you understand. They have a lot of explanations, each one worse than the next.....
I want the government out of religion and all religion out of government. I do not care who/what you pray to or hold to be divine- keep it in your personal life.
While everyone is pushing for diversity, how about a few avowed agnostics or atheists on the Supreme Court?
Aren’t these the same religious groups that also called Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr a “communist” ? The same ones who angrily opposed interracial marriage? The same ones who adamantly opposed integration of housing and public schools? And who still minimize or deny existence of institutional racism?
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Complete typical Krugman double-speak. He cites "freedom of religion" but then castigates Barr for speaking up for religion! Only a NYC/Coastal liberal could buy into this hypocrisy. Atheists are completely free to be as secular as they want but as many commenters here threaten, that is not enough for them. They intend to banish religion from the public square. This militancy and hostility is grounded in feelings of moral superiority, justifying in their minds a false charge of "religious coercion."
No one is forcing atheists to take an oath or subscribe to the Nicene Creed or read the Bible, Torah or the Koran. So, atheists, feel free to follow the beliefs of the Greeks or the Lakota (my choice) but stop, stop, stop, in your self-righeous smirking, trying to destroy the credo and coda of the majority.
I think you are missing an important part of the complaint- Barr is the AG. He is the government, who cannot punish citizens who do not participate in religion.
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Another incident which needs to be added to the list of why Barr is unfit for office. He needs to resign.
Knute Rockne inspiring values no longer defining Notre Dame’s essence. Shamefully giving trump’s toadie Barr a platform, once proud fighting Irish Institution mirroring Bob Jones “University”.
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Since you brought it up, this seems fitting for a number of administration members and private attorneys:
Language is the dress of thought; every time you talk your mind is on parade.
Samuel Johnson
Humanitarian agencies throughout the world fear one kind of war the most (according to my human rights class professor) - a “just” war. A “just” war is waged in the name of a god (the god of choice for the ones waging the war). As the war is “just,” any action can be taken to win, because every action is in the name of and therefore with the consent of the god. A “just” war, a God’s war, is a war with no rules.
Humanitarians have cited these types of wars as the most inhumane, the most cruel, the most horrific that they face in their aid efforts in war-torn areas. The carnage and suffering is unimaginable and those inflict these inhumane acts feel no shame, feel no remorse, feel that they are righteous.
One can only hope that those who actually believe in the god that Trump, Barr, and their cohort are currently dragging through the mud of a “just” battle for power, would speak up and reclaim their god from these pretend-religious usurpers.
The Confederacy held on for much longer than any objective observer would have imagined. And even in defeat, they maintained absolute white supremacy for nearly another century. Who’s to say that Trump and his hard core Southern Baptist supporters won’t hold on for another century?
Freedom of religion is guaranteed. What’s not guaranteed is that the government uses religious freedom to override common sense lawmaking and push a religious agenda over a secular one. Allowing “religious exemptions for everything from family planning in health care to public school kids without vaccinations is pandering to a base that sees a weak leader desperate for ho be I’ll do anything to keep them on his side. Shame on Barr for throwing secular ethics under he bus, and for enabling a man who will misuse and abuse him in return.
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I think the chief law enforcement officer is right. The secularist in chief is destroying America. As Senator Lindsey Graham admitted: Trump doesn’t listen to his lawyers like he should. Every show of Law and Order should teach one to be silent at the very least. The president surrounds himself with papists or monarchists to be more specific. They don’t believe in checks and balances. If it were true “No, this outburst of God-talk is surely a response to the way the walls are closing in on Trump, the high likelihood that he will be impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors.” It it were true then they would have to admit their legal philosophy is the president could never be impeached ever no matter what. Am I wrong? Isn’t that the president’s attitude that he can do no wrong ever in any court of law. Infallibility is papal.
Maybe Barr is preparing us for his planned future as one of those mercenary evangelists who rake in millions, travel around the world in their luxury jets and buy multi-million-dollar homes, while condemning secularists and ignoring the Christian emphasis on "humility." He will have to seek employment elsewhere if Trump is impeached or Barr himself is impeached for violating his Constitutional oath.
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"...and rarely experience the mass shootings that have become almost routine here..." often here in America, perpetrated by individuals who profess profound religious convictions. Barr didn't mention that. Geez, how many groups do evangelicals hate? Let's see: brown people, women with a brain, immigrants, and increasingly the non-religious. In order to rile the base and get them out to vote, the Trump Administration, as well as Fox News, is creating an atmosphere where the right-wing religious could begin killing the rest of us. They have the guns. Well, they can just claim they are on a mission from God, or Darwin made them do it. Problem with the latter, is that there is very little K-12 education in evolutionary subjects, particularly in the red states.
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So Barr is trying to "rally the Trump evangelical base " by giving a speech at the very Catholic Notre Dame. That makes absolutely no sense. But Mr. Krugman stopped making sense a long time ago.
Thou shalt not lie, Mr Attorney General.
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I suggest that William Barr be fired by the people who he is suppose to represent. He cannot work for Americans if he is preaching religion and not the laws of our country.
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I'm not a believer, but the fact that Jesus saved his harshest words for religious hypoctires is not lost on me.
3
This guy works for Trump and lies for Trump and colludes with Trump and he's prattling on about the "traditional moral order"?
Scary thought that Barr is now in charge of the Justice Department, its policies, and its actions.
I'm not sure this isn't something larger--and rather more frightening--than Barr attempting to manipulate Trump's Evangelical base. It smells of theocracy. Add to Barr's Notre Dame speech the news that "The United States and Holy See co-sponsored a symposium on 'Partnering with Faith-based Organizations: Pathways to Achieving Human Dignity' on October 2, 2019. The event demonstrated how governments can partner with faith-based organizations to advance and defend religious freedom, combat human trafficking, and provide humanitarian assistance."
This event followed the 2019 Ministerial to Advance Religious Freedom in July. Pompeo gave gave keynote remarks, worth reading: https://tinyurl.com/y4cuqd97.
These events were international and included various faiths. The goals as noted above are worthy ones. And yet there is something disquieting about the focus of the U.S Secretary of State on religious belief and faith in much the way U.S. Attorney General Barr in his speech.
At the end of The 11th Hour, Brian Williams showed a screen shot of the State Department home page from October 14. It was a picture of Pompeo and a reference to being a Christian leader. It's gone now, but how inappropriate that it was there. I encourage anyone who is concerned about this issue to take a look at the State Department's web site to see just how much material on there is about religion.
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I was under the impression that Barr was once a smart lawyer, now it seems he has to pray for the outcome he wants.
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Trump has cleverly devised what may be a winning strategy. His policies are shaped to give different groups the only thing that matters to them. For the Christian Right pro- life judges. For the Orthodox Jewish community mindless support for Israel. For the wealthy tax cuts and a record setting Dow Jones. For the gun crowd no new gun controls.And for many whites all that matters is relentless attacks on Obama. And some voters say bring home the troops. These voters say give me the one that is important to me and nothing else that you do matters. This is a reprehensible strategy. It could easily work.
How did a Catholic school, founded on the faith and teachings of Jesus Christ, whose only rule was to love your neighbor, invite Bill Barr? The students of Notre Dame deserve better.
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After this speech —and in the context of Barr’s recent European tour designed to deny Russian hacking of the election and dig up fabricated dirt on the Bidens, — it’s clear that Trump now has a Minister of Propaganda, and the United States no longer has an Attorney General.
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It appears that Trump and his minions have let all the evangelical talk about his having a “mandate of heaven” go to his head. God isn’t just a co-conspirator; he’s The Godfather, so to speak, and Trump is his enforcer. All the more reason to insist on separation of church and state.
These words illustrate why we (Americans) and the New York Times must move on beyond endlessly reporting on groups in terms of skin color and turn to seeing them in terms of SES data and religion.
"The usual answer is working-class whites, but a deeper dive into the data suggests that it’s more specific: It’s really evangelical working-class whites..."
Some during the Swedish night today, October 15, BBC World Radio reported on an Evangelical Group via interviews in which the spokesperson told BBC that at every meeting we fly the American flag, say the pledge of allegiance with hand over heart, say a prayer...on and on in that vein.
At no point were they asked if Jesus would have approved of their beloved President's new-normal profanity, is demeaning of perfectly decent human beings, and his views on women.
Anybody know how evangelicals reply if asked such questions? There are no such people in that group here in Sweden whom I might ask.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
If the evangelicals are right in their world view, they will one day have to answer to their maker. God help them on that day.
To Falwell and thousands of other lesser known evangelical preachers, do not forget to add the desperately and despicably compromised prelates and priests of the Church of Rome. Thoughtful Americans are well aware that the fight against basic birth control has been led forever by these strange “celibate” men, who eschewing normal family life, presume to tell families how to live. Wack job evangelicals, the untrustworthy priests of the Church of Rome, and Trump make a fine modern Trinity.
THIS was one of your finest sir. But it is also frightening. Indeed, why is General Barr doing this? Because he is laying the groundwork for the war these guys really thing they can fight to hold on to power. Sure a minority. But how much irreversible damage can dissolute evangelized desperadoes inflict on our now fragile society.
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Evangelicals another name for religious hypocrisy. If they weren't hypocrites they wouldn't support trump and his ilk.
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Barr has struck out twice now. Are we really to stand by as he misses again?
Nostalgic for the good old days when “Christians” burned Beatles records, not the Constitution.
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Blame the non-Christians for the failures of the Christians. This is a typical and lazy way to address social issues.
I find it amusing that religious people feel it is my responsibility to help them practice their religion.
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I'm not sure which is more despicable, the hypocrisy of the GOP or the hypocrisy of Christians supporting Trump.
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Nicely done Paul.
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Barr seems to me the kind of prelate that the Catholic church has been working hard to get rid of, or at least rein in. The power structure is his moral compass, and he'll cover up any crime to preserve it.
"empirically verifiable nonsense": a very apt description of trump's twitter feed.
1
Speechless... indeed God help us.
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Barr had shown, he would say anything. He didn't claim it would amount to anything.
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In America's heartland and in the states which made up the Old Confederacy in the South, there are a majority of people Paul Krugman identifies as white working-class evangelicals who have only four issues they care about: the three Gs guns, god and gays and abortion. Add to these a growing Latino population in their communities attracted by jobs these white evangelicals would never lower themselves to do and you know who Donald Trump and his attorney general William Barr are trying to energize for the 2020 presidential election. Other than these issues, I for the life of me cannot discern why these "evangelical working-class whites" are so paranoid. Reminds me of a minority of18th century Greek Orthodox believers in Russian. When the Czar Peter the Great ordered the male adults to cut their beards, many of them rather than cut their beards, barricaded themselves and their families inside their wooden homes, set fire to them, and burned themselves and their families alive. Such is often the illogical actions of religious zealots. Supporting Donald Trump, who is anything but a Christian, another.
In view of the location of Barr's address, I wonder if the Catholic Church is not getting a pass on this as well. Consider the Supreme Court etc.
"And you never ask questions
When God's on your side"
(B. Dylan)
If your morals are founded on the despotic dictates of a Middle Eastern patriarch who set the standard in sexism, racism and zealous intolerance of reason, facts and good morals, then you have a serious moral problem.
And as the facts noted by Krugman show, as has long been known, less religious societies correlate strongly with higher morals reflected in less violence and other crimes, and greater respect for other persons.
In the 21st century, how can anyone take seriously the faith-based (a euphemism for absolute rejection of critical thinking) the commands of a fake deity who amuses himself with commanding fathers to kill their own sons (Abraham) and commanding wholesale slaughter for consenting adults loving each other in unapproved ways? And who is, in the best tradition of the ancient Middle East, very tolerant of slavery and other evils? That is true moral corruption. That is what America should be greater than.
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A sensible take—but one that under-weighs the possibility that this is not just political theater for the right-wing media machine. For many of Trump’s 30%, especially evangelical Christians, this is very real: Barr is explicitly testing — and implicitly promising — the promise of evangelical “self-defense” against the so-called secularist destruction of America.
Melded with Trump’s persecution complex and penchant for “counter-punching,” the odds are high of Trump-Barr launching a “Counter-Reformation” for White America — one that will extend existing efforts to beat back demographics by retroactively rescinding citizenship for legal immigrants, striking minorities and likely Dem voters from the rolls, and promoting openly evangelical/white nationalist judges to the federal bench.
(And while Barr deserves our attention, don’t sleep on Sec. of State Pompeo: The lead item on the US State Dept’s welcome page (state.gov) is his Oct. 11 speech to an evangelical conference in which he highlights his *and, he claims, the State Department’s* use of evangelical faith and in directing America’s foreign policy. The words welcoming the world to America's official website? “Being A Christian Leader.”)
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Secretary of State Mike Pompeo rmade similar remarks at the American Association of Christian Counselors World Conference last week in Nashville, Tennessee.
Those remarks are accessible on Youtube.
As a follower of the teachings of the Rabbi from Nazareth, they sicken me.
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What will they think of next?
The source of Barr frustrations might be jealousy of the more natural lawyers who understand more concepts than imported religious beliefs. He missed a better vocation in law or out it such as in accounting.
Mr. Krugman doesn't report what AG Barr actually said. He challenges Barr's right to speak, while patronizing Trump voters. We Christians know all men are flawed, no cheap shots at President Trump for lacking godliness. Barr's comments are utterly appropriate, he addressed not so much religion as cultural values in the public square. Since our President supports religious liberty, the right to life and opposes the culture of death gaining strength in our society in recent decades, of course people of faith are heartened. Today, believing Christians and Jews are the ones challenged on every front. We aren't intimidated by epithets such as 'unhinged zealots.' I thank God Donald Trump promotes values, his personal history matters no more than did that of FDR or JFK, two of my other heroes.
Let us start with a few facts.
Evangelicals are Christians.
Not all Christians are Evangelicals.
Not all Christians support Donald Trump.
Trump is immoral and certainly not religious (unless golf and corruption are now religions).
The United States is not a "Christian" nation, but it is founded on the morals of Abrahamic religions. To deny that the founders presumed a moral basis for governance is a fallacy (note, moral not religious).
If you read the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, philosophers, spiritualists, and agnostics like W. E. B. Du Bois, Susan B. Anthony, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Walt Whitman, and Toni Morrison, there is a presumption of desired morality underlying these words. Society is not based on nihilistic principles.
Let's try to start again with the Golden Rule “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” and build from there. Barr and Trump don't seem to comprehend that they are not even following this most basic of moral rules.
1
In most American towns and in many cities, churches provide primary social organization.
Typically, they are the only places where you hear every week that you matter, that you belong to a community.
If you don’t go along with whatever the preacher preaches, you risk losing your most important social network. You risk ostracism, being alone.
It’s too bad that so many preachers are hucksters and political opportunists, but a church leader’s transgressions rarely outweigh an individual’s understandable and very powerful fear of being alone.
As I often say, the comments from readers are the best part of the opinion pieces. Many of today's comments (from secular humanists and atheists) have restored some of my hope in the future of this country. Thanks to all of you!
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Painfully illuminating when highlighted by Barr's speech. It might be time for a large, explicit, non-religiously affiliated political movement.
2
A significant factor in trump supporter’s approval of intertwining religion and politics is due to the right wing information campaign that the separation of church and state is not one of our founding principles.
2
Religion and its belief systems were created for and by humans, often for particular humans and whether you are Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Etc, the rules for your belief are human-made, usually with backup from existing religious texts, often claimed to be divinely inspired. Whether there are supreme beings can only be accepted through faith. You believe or you don’t.
I keep in touch with childhood friends from the Bible Belt who support Trump. They are not un-educated, nor are they bad people. They know he is a criminal and a bad man. Paradoxically, they also admire his ballsiness and hope that some rash decision of his might just trigger the apocalypse to bring on their looked-for End of Days. They will vote for DT no matter what. No, it’s not logical and you and I may not understand it, but he has become part of their faith, the most important thing in their lives.
Barr is dangerously close to reviving divine oridinance, the belief that kings and royalty are descended from and empowered to possess the voice and will of a supernatural being.
It stands against every democratic principal upheld over the last 300 years; civil wars were fought and lost over the concept, beginning with the end of the house of Stuart in the early 18th century in our shared cultures.
Divine ordinance is needed to assert that POTUS is above the law, and cannot be investigated as his attorneys assert.
It's beyond belief that it's coming back with Trump and his fanatics - which now include the Attourney General of the United States.
5
Barr, to use Joseph Conrad's phrase, is a "whited sepulchre."
Barr correctly said in his speech that the secular left has taken "on all the trappings of religion, including inquisitions and excommunication. Those who defy the creed risk a figurative burning at the stake . . . ostracism and exclusion waged through lawsuits and savage social media campaigns." This is exactly right, as seen by the figurative burning at the stake that Ellen Degeneres recently endured because she (oh the horror!) was kind to Pres. Bush. But she was burned at the stake because she defied this secular commandment: "Thou shalt be cruel to people you disagree with." And now we have Krugman's response to Barr, consisting of hysteria and name-calling rather than a reasoned argument, which precisely proves Barr's point.
2
@Jeff
I don't think that that's what this is all about.
The debate wasn't about whether Ellen was "too kind" to G.W. Bush or not.
The question was whether it was a good idea to use her "celebrity status" to create a more sympathetic image of a president who invented fake news and then launched a war that killed more than 100,000 innocent civilians and more than 10,000 of our own bravest and finest youth, and that laid the groundwork for the foundation of ISIS.
For some, what Trump is doing today is perfectly in line with what the GOP has been doing for two decades now, and that is too monstrous to decide that cultivating kindness is the best response here.
Personally, as an agnostic atheist, I DO believe that it is the best response, but it would be intellectually dishonest that a real, respectful debate wouldn't be possible and even necessary here.
And FYI: real debates are the very opposite of "inquisitions and excommunications", remember?
Those violent injustices are all based on the same assumption: that somehow BECAUSE of what you believe concerning the notion "God", you can be automatically classified as "moral" or "immoral/bad/evil".
Fact is, you can't. And the entire Constitution is based on the recognition of that fact.
Barr is NOT supposed to represent ANY "traditional moral order". He's paid to represent the Constitution, and as such, all US citizens, independently of their creed. To talk about "organized destruction" without any evidence, is wrong.
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@Ana Luisa I appreciate the tone of your response. Here's my take (and maybe we're inadvertently speaking past each other)--there are horrible "Fox News/Trump people" who love politics and call themselves Christians, but they are cruel and vindictive, and they can't be reasoned with. And as Jesus said, "By their deeds, you will know them." They're not accurately representing Christ, and they are a disgrace. At the same time, on the other side, don't you honestly see what Barr is referring to when he says that the secular left has taken on all the trappings of religion, including inquisitions and excommunication and figurative burnings at the stake? I see it all the time. Both sides are horrible, and if a politician is actually willing to be kind and gracious to folks who hold different views, that politician won't stay in office, because the voters (on both sides) want their politicians to be cruel and ruthless. That's why I have no hope in politics. [Disclosure -- I'm a former (very liberal) agnostic/atheist who became a Christian after being convinced that Jesus really did rise bodily from the grave, in a physical body that would never die or get weak.]
The practice of religious tolerance and the desire for religious freedom have often been disconnected in our country's history, particularly by those who seek to establish a state religion.
3
If one accepts Mr. Barr at his word, basically that he is a conservative catholic who fears secularism, then it provides some rationale for his recent behavior. Many of us have been quite puzzled by how much he has bought into Trumpian authoritarianism given that in his previous act as Attorney General it seemed he was at least somewhat a rule-of-law adherent.
Fear seems to be a main motivator for many of Trump's strongest supporters, and perhaps Mr. Barr is willing to overlook violations of human laws if he fears humans are on the wrong side of divine law. Many people become more religious as they age, perhaps realizing that their death is nearer and they seek an escape. It's understandable. They want to be on the right side of a deity they believe controls their eternal fate. Maybe accepting Trump's transgressions is the price Mr. Barr pays to get right with the heavenly boss in his head. At least it provides a credible motive for such behavior.
Now Rudy Giuliani is another mystery. I have no clue what his motives are except possibly that he is a fame addict or maybe just a loquacious drunk.
Growing up in an evangelical church, we were fed a steady diet of intolerance of anyone that did not believe in this particular religious dogma. This included all other belief systems and also more progressive Christian churches. These teachings start in early childhood and are reinforced throughout life. They have embraced the Republican message and that will not change.
3
If churches want to get involved in politics, fine. Then they should pay their fair share of taxes. It's time to end this gravy train. It's becoming more apparent that the distinction between a church and a business is becoming less obvious these days.
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The most charitable interpretation I can come up with for evangelicals' embrace of Trump, the most openly amoral president in living memory if not ever, is that they feel demographics closing in and don't care about niceties like the law or democracy when it comes to defending their position in American society. Trump may be a thug, the thinking goes, but he's their thug.
I admit, before the last election when Trump seemed sure to lose I felt a little pity for how far evangelicals had fallen and how fast since the GW Bush administration when they claimed the mainstream. Now they've dropped any and all pretense of moral probity and continue to decline, rightly, as a share of the population. At this point all I can say to them is good riddance. We can only hope for their continued decline.
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I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, and Barr's strain of Christian narcissism is dangerous and terrifying.
Many millionaires in Texas thinks God has singled him out for prosperity, even if their work exploits the poor or destroys the earth. These men use God as a wing man to pursue power. It's a story older than the Bible.
Religion is big business.
"Poor but pious" is a social class.
Churches are an easy distribution system to tap.
"Freedom of religion" has allowed a large swath of the electorate to live with a medieval world view, rejecting evolution, economics, psychology, civil rights, and egalitarianism. An Old Testament caste system suits them just fine.
These people are the "my parents beat me and I turned out fine; therefore, I beat my children" crowd.
It's also scary that evangelicals operate hospitals and universities. These organizations serve the goals of the church, not the public, but they use public funding and wield political power like for-profit corporations.
They also rely on public infrastructure and should be taxed.
Many Bible Belt communities are rotting because their economies are dominated by non-profits and churches that don't pay their share. The idea of taxing churches isn't as unpopular as Barr might think.
8
Many of these Trump accolades have attended elite universities---so the question: what are they teaching in these elite classrooms and lecture halls? As a former high school teacher, often thought we needed our curriculum to be more challenging, but, listening to these Ivy League Trump followers...feel better now.
3
Mr. Krugman is correct that Mr. Barr absolutely should not be denouncing anyone's beliefs regarding religion and doing so compromises his role.
On the other hand, modern secularism is not without problems, though not the ones Mr. Barr alleges. Several commenters here protest the efforts of religious people to pass legislation that reflects their beliefs. The terminology used is "imposing" their beliefs on the "rest of us".
The problem with this argument is that all laws, regardless of who champions them, are "imposing" beliefs on everyone else. The vast majority of us agree that murder is wrong and so we "impose" that belief on the minority who view killing as their right.
Issues arise, of course, with beliefs that are not so universally shared. Our culture is extremely diverse - really many cultures co-existing in one society. Hence, it is not surprising that we often have difficulty agreeing on what should be legislated.
One of the problems with post-modern secularism is the notion that there is essentially no objective "truth". Hence, the role of legislation becomes to defend everyone's right to create their own version of the truth. Even scientific "truth" is met with skepticism (climate change? gender as social construct?)
And what is wrong with that, you might ask? The primary problem is that it fractures society, as the focus is on defending a plethora of individual "rights" rather than on building a community characterized by mutual acceptance and forbearance.
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@drmaryb No, the problem is that the arguments of religionists on important societal issues seem to always come back to "my god says so in his book", ending all dialog.
@MarcS
The "religious right" does not represent most spiritually oriented people. They simply make the most noise. I disagree with them heartily. However, that does not lessen the impact of post-modern thinking on the health of our society. I'd be glad to have a dialogue but I imagine they will be closing comments here soon. Be well and at peace.
I agree that Bill Barr is simply stocking the unhinged fear that some have of secularists. His role is clearly to protect Trump at all costs. And he and phonies like him do it while waving the flag and professing their patriotism. Perhaps we need to be reminded that America was, in part, founded to be free of persecution based upon religious beliefs.
It wasn't that long ago when I was a boy to see, more commonly, an attitude of "live and let live". I was raised in the Catholic faith and I consider myself a secularist. I respect the right of people to have their own religious beliefs or none if they choose that. I also respect the separation of church and state. Those who fear that America has lost its way because of the growth of secularism are misguided. What they should fear is unlimited greed and the pursuit of money at all costs for those are the things that are truly undermining America. I might also add that the attitude of "live and let live" which is expressed in the separation of church and state is crucial to genuine democracy. Too many Americans want to capture the political process and government to impose their views of religion on everyone else claiming they will restore a mythical America. That is the beginning of the end of democracy. God help us!
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I would like to see a census taken of the religious beliefs of people who are incarcerated, particularly for violent crimes. I suspect that the numbers would show that the largest groups are Catholics and Evangelicals, not atheists , Wiccans, or even "spiritual but not religious."
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I know very few atheists; but the few that I know are all doves. They hate war, and they believe in a just society like government taking care of the least among us. And most people who believe in those concepts are not Republican.
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As virtually every church, conservative or liberal, skirts up to the rule forbidding endorsing candidates by advocating specific away policies, why not simply tax them, and let freedom of speech flourish. Beto has it backwards and reinforces the mistaken idea that taxes are to punish.
No corporation should pay nothing. Similarly churches and non-profits should have skin in the game. All of us owe something in taxes to contribute toward the general welfare.
1
"America has certainly become less religious over the past quarter century, with a large rise in the number of religiously unaffiliated...."
I have a pet peeve about the common observation that a rising portion of the American population is "religiously unaffiliated" or doesn't belong to any particular church. My complaint is that there is a distinction between people who don't belong to any certain church and those who not only don't belong to a denomination, they don't believe in a god or "higher authority" or Jesus' alleged divinity or any shading of that hokum. The latter is me. I'm sure there are quite a few people who aren't atheist who nevertheless believe in some deity or another.
I wish at least a fifth of Americans were really atheist, but I don't think that percentage is truly accurate.
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@RH True, but Barr would probably include many of them in his definition of '"secularists".
The constitution and bill of rights were written in an era of the enlightenment which came about after centuries of bloody religious conflict between protestants and the Catholic Church to establish political dominance and control. The founders saw the futility of this conflict and wisely chose to put up a wall between church and state. Contrary to what many Christians assert, the first amendment protections are not confined to Christians, but apply to all faiths and non believers. There's this perverse interpretation of the first amendment that it means your free to be any kind of Christian you want, but implicitly we are a "Christian" country and therefore our laws need to be vetted through this prism of religious bigotry. The practical application of this view is that the church is protected from the state, but the reverse is not true. That pragmatism allows them to embrace a president who devoted much of his live to being a playboy and who has cheated his wives and when asked whether he had anything to ask God for forgiveness, he could not come up with an answer and yet he is still embraced by the zealots of the faith. It is this very accommodation and arbitrary exercise of faith based principles that demonstrate the unfitness of of faith based ideals to intrude on our laws and institutions.
6
Many of the commentators are anti-religion, which is their absolute right guaranteed by our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Some maintain that religion does more harm than good. I would suggest one relatively easy way they can confirm/support their belief. I just read an article on the number of murders in our cities this past weekend. Ask the perpetrators of this violence one simple question: Do you attend church on a regular basis? I suspect there would be difficulty finding a single case where the answer is yes. This easy survey would not prove cause and effect, and I am not contending that church attendance is a prerequisite for a peaceful existence (I seldom attend). It’s just my observation that the people who attend church on a regular basis would not be candidates for participation in a weekend shootout.
2
I attend Mass weekly with my wife and my views on taxing Churches changed when one of the church charity leaders said one thing they do with the money we give is to help people fill out forms for federal assistance.
Shouldn't we just uh, do that at the federal level? And if all they are doing is paying someone to sit around and do that, but with some sort of holy feeling about it, why not just cut that job and spend more on poverty?
I've gone to church most of my life and even I can see they've turned into glorified social clubs, and its mainly the elderly that are still going (at least for the Catholic Church).
It's time to split the country up. Trump, Barr, and their ilk simply mouth whatever nonsense they feel will serve to perpetuate their increasingly tenuous lock on power. It's time to accept the reality that they will never be able to govern in any responsible manner. The challenges of the present and the future are too big to consign to such as these. Let them have their patch of land, and let us who understand reality have ours.
1
Men like Barr decry the breakdown of institutionalized religions in the U.S. because they realize white male privilege largely rests on keeping patriarchal rigid belief systems in place.
Trump, for all his faults, has amply demonstrated that you don't have to be a man of faith (or ethics or morals) to benefit from religion. You just have to understand that a great number of people need an authority who can protect them from the need to grow up and think for themselves.
The new religion of the GOP is institutionalized ignorance.
19
@Rose: Whoa, wait a minute. Are you trying to imply that people of faith are incapable of thinking for themselves? Please clarify because, as written, your post is remarkably insulting.
1
Militant atheists? I have never had an atheist come to my door or harangue me on the street to persuade me that there is no god, but many times I have had that experience with those who are trying to persuade me that there is a god and that they know what this god wants me to do or not do. Coincidentally, this god always seems to agree with them.
20
The Constitution grants the secularists who Barr is ranting against the right to reject religion. Further, that same Constitution prohibits any religious test as a qualification for elective office. Barr swore an oath to protect and preserve the Constitution and is failing miserably in that regard. He should be removed from office along with Trump.
8
Religion has always been about excessive constraints, intolerance and a breeding ground for hate. Why would their strong alignment with Trump be any surprise? They both share an existential need for their "followers" to engage in willful ignorance and denial of facts and logic.
5
The idea of religious freedom has been turned on its head by the Christian right. As much as the First Amendment is about freedom of religion, it is also about freedom from religion.
The public sphere should be dogma-free. No one should be denied their right to completely function in that sphere because someone else has scruples or imperatives based on their understanding of the word of God.
God forbids abortion (in whatever trimester)? Fine. Don't have one. But base your restriction of others' right to scientific grounds, not on the fact that an immortal soul is injected from heaven into the fetus.
Don't want to make wedding cakes for homosexuals? Fine. Open a bakery in the basement of a church -- not in a public business district open to one and all.
Deeply believe that adultery and calumny are sinful? Fine. Then don't vote for Trump.
If there is one lesson that has been learned from history, and was deeply understood by the founding fathers, it's that government and institutionalized religion corrupt each other, and oppress the singular conscience of the individual.
Only secularism can protect conscience, and ironically, only secularism can protect religion.
14
Religious freedom - talk about a self-contradiction
Barr's recent speech in which he spoke of "militant secularists conspiring against america" has an interesting pedigree. At one time it was socialists that conspired against america, this evolved and in the fifties to communists, then civil rights advocates, Hippies, and now secular intellectuals. Suddenly the intelligentsia... lawyers, doctors, professors, teachers in short the highly educated are now seen as threats to the american moral order !
Mr. Barr seems to echo Mao Zedong"s targets during chinese cultural revolution without realizing it... the intellectuals ! Barr seems to want to give the Trump base a common enemy, one that his base can easily identify and rally against, he has taken the important step of demonizing secular intellectuals and in so doing assumes the mantel of a religious leader...much as men did in the middle ages in order to secure..of all things..power.
But Mr. Barr has stopped short and no doubt as his speeches evolve he will limit the demonization, the immoral secularists to one party..the Democrats, the ones that champion women's rights , free education, medicare for all, and entitlements . He wants the Trump base to view the Democrats , not as a part of the spectrum of american thought , but as an enemy of the foundational core of america. He truly is a man of another age when he calls for a defense of the traditional moral order that allowed for racism and poverty, he sees no problem with that order , nor does Trump !
6
Barr’s reference to “organized destruction” is true, but as usual for rightwing extremists it is projection onto others what is true of self.
Barr, Pompeo, Giuliani, McConnell, Trump and their henchmen are damaging our democratic institutions and our worldwide reputation on a daily basis.
Trump thought he could knock the impeachment proceedings out of the headlines by giving Turkey the go-ahead to invade Syria, but those headlines have made Trump look even worse and have cost him the support of some Republicans, military, and even evangelicals.
Yes, God help us all!
2
It worked in 2016, a good chance it will work in 2020.
1
God help us is right. Evangelicals use the proven technique of fear to bring the weak into their realm of a living stupor where their religion outweighs the ability to think rationally. All religions have the basic premise to do good, but unfortunately there is an evil side where followers can be easily led astray by fear of change or being outnumbered. Zombie evangelicals are putting out the red carpet for DT, the great leader of lies and deceit. Who said this could never happen in America?
1
In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth, so He has a finger in every pie.
Secularism in the US comes across to Christians as saying "Shut up" and "Pay for my bloated bureaucracy." Secularism in world history: Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the evil Chinese empire today.
Christendom is the part of the world that Muslims and Secularists and Pagans want to move to, so people confess with their feet--whatever their mouths may say--that Jesus runs things better than His competitors.
Have you yourself compared the various worldviews? Everyone has one; neutrality isn't possible. What do they say, and what is the evidence for each?
Christian miracles prove secularism to be hogwash. "No man has seen God at any time" comes from Saint John the Apostle (writing by the Holy Ghost), tho copied and distorted by secularists.
And Jesus is libertarian, respecting people with hard challenges and diagnoses rather than setting up a bureaucracy to control more and more of their lives.
Trump seems a lousy, or nominal, Christian, but his policies differ less from the politics of Jesus than the alternative politics available. So politically we love our neighbors by tolerating the least bad available ruler, even if he couldn't take communion until he repents of his public sins such as adultery. He's unfit to lead a church, but he does an OK job for a country.
Repent and follow Jesus, and thank God for a country that compares fairly well to a lot of countries.
@Andrew Lohr So say you he's doing an OK job for the country. Most people would disagree. Trump is a great role model, however, to the extent that children should do the opposite of everything he says.
4
@Andrew Lohr Thanks for the perfect example of how evangelicals twist history and politics to justify their support of Trump and the GOP.
3
It’s not the “cynical secularists” who concern me. As a Christian, it is the cynical politicians of the Republican Party who trample on the teachings of Jesus every day, and who then pander to “Christian values” as a ploy to secure votes. I don’t recall reading anywhere that Jesus is a Republican. Indeed, even the secularists might be surprised by the Jesus they meet in Matthew 25.
3
Evangelicals need to look no further than the Kurds to witness how “loyal” Trump is to allies. When the campaign is over, you will be betrayed. Trump has no faith or sense of loyalty, everyone is a tool to be used and discarded by Twitter.
1
" ... I found myself thinking of the title of an old movie: “God Is My Co-Pilot.” ... "
That title is the same as a book also titled "God Is My Co-Pilot" by General Robert Scott about the Flying Tigers, an American squadron fighting against Japan in China.
It is also linguistically abhorrent, as Co-Pilots are ALWAYS subordinate to the "Pilot", or "Captain", and thus of lower rank or status.
As a lifelong pilot, and a Christian, who has read the book, and understands rank and subordination, I find serious fault. I have always pointed out the error in theology whenever I saw such a bumper sticker or label.
I am profoundly disappointed that the audience at the UNIVERSITY of Notre Dame Law School did not laugh Barr out of whatever hall he was speaking in. Grotesque and surely intellectually indefensible. Preternaturally ugly, appallingly self-righteous. Shameful.
3
@Lisa, Notre Dame, that’s why.
1
Once those with no religion have been vilified, the next step will be to vilify those with the "wrong" religion.
1
God of the Old Testament was into wrath, fire and burning, smiting and pestilence, punishment and death. Jesus Christ, his very own son of the New Testament taught love, tolerance, forgiveness, and absolute pacifism.
So which is it for the evangelicals? Current trends would suggest it is the former. But if this is the case, they ought drop the epithet "Christian" and come clean on their underpinnings.
1
Far be it for me to contradict A.G. Barr, but as a Catholic I find more truth and wisdom in these words:
"Catholics do not need the support of civil law to be faithful to their own religious convictions and they do not seek to impose by law their moral views on others of society.”
Richard Cardinal Cushing, 1965.
3
Deeply flawed reasoning. All kinds of belief systems are protected by the First Amendment, from secularism to Nazism. That does not mean that they all are exempt from criticism by you and me and the AG. And most belief systems, including secularism, do cause harm. Many of those who went secularist well remember how our belief systems changed, causing great conflict with family and friends.
@michjas Conflict with family and friends is one thing. Being viewed as a "lesser citizen" by the US AG is much more concerning.
1
When Barr claims that the present damage is "organized destruction," it is another case of projection and gaslighting.
"Organized destruction" is precisely why he was hired, and is what he, trump and his other lackeys have been up to.
2
There’s something really going wrong with Attorney General Barr. A couple of weeks ago we learned that he was in Italy, following up on a conspiracy theory. Shortly after, he was meeting with people at Fox News (?!). Now he is denouncing secularism. Isn’t he supposed to be the head of the justice department? What’s going on here?
3
"the mass shootings that have become almost routine here" - almost? really?
A more apt phrase would be " the mass shootings that have become routine here", I would have thought.
2
Perhaps Paul missed Beto O'Rourke's screed on taxing Churches that don't have politically correct moral views. It is not Barr who has strayed, but Democrats moving furthur left embracing Markist precepts of eliminating all things religious especially Christianity. They consider religion the 'opiate of the masses'..a concept that has failed every time it was tried.
Leftist always target Christianity first.
2
Trump was chosen by God who is a Republican. I see a thread here leading to the dream of Trump's re-election. Democrats do not understand the threat their faithlessness poses to the country, right?
@Suzanne Wheat I hope this is sarcasm. If not, was Obama chosen by God? If you say no, Why?
Why in god's name do you assume all Democrats are faithless? Again, I hope this is sarcasm. Because that's just crazy.
It seems ironic that an apolitical, irreverent Golden Globe such as the president should have coopted both the GOP and evangelical America. Let us hope we can overcome Dark Money, the NRA, and mr. putin, for Bill Barr has telegraphed what they have planned for us.
1