The UAW should look up. The sound they do not want to hear are the robots coming for their jobs. You know those things that don`t get vacations , work 24/7 if needed , have maintenance but not healthcare and don`t go on strike.
Add that to the fewer parts that an electric vehicle needs including less maintenance and the future is even bleaker. The UAW needs to find ways work with GM to get the jobs of the future.
7
People who don’t support unions are basically saying you don’t want workers to have a voice nor a vote in their life. That choice belongs to the obscenely wealthy, not you.
19
Labor unions are just monopolies on labor supply, raising costs for the business and customers.
I'm very sorry for the human suffering, but I won't miss GM and their stinky, noisy vehicles... not at all.
8
I used to root for the auto workers. Not anymore since they gave us the plague of Trump. They forgot who their friends were.
17
Every social commentator reflecting on income inequality looks back fondly to the good ol' union days when craftsmen could command high wages and benefits for their handiwork, and unions would act at least sometimes with their members' interests at heart. America was providing dignified living for union members and workers felt as if their will was the prime mover of their lives.
When America Was Great. When Labor Was King.
Manufacturing America hasn't been that dynamic for a long time, and unions have mostly themselves to blame for that fact. America no longer moves as the unions want it to. There's no aura of saintliness that will now allow unions to magically provide for workers in the absence of reason, dignity and realism.
Corruption, criminality, graft, violence, irresponsibility, venality - these are real factors that have historically sapped the union movement for a far longer time than it has been a driver of labor justice.
The flexing of a diminished union’s muscles in the current strike will not Make America Great Again. This union and its members are adding to their own irrelevancy.
2
The unions are over reaching and aren’t playing this hand well. They will win no or minor concessions that won’t counterbalance the lost wages.
4
Unless they are building pickups and SUVs there are few jobs for auto workers at the big three. They can always move south and work for Honda, Toyota, BMW, VW, etc.
4
I was on strike during 2016, right during the Presidential election , Bernie Sanders came down and walked the picket line with us, President Obama got the department of labor involved to mediate and the strike was settled by the seventh week . This is the first major strike of the Trump Presidency . And he hasn’t said a word about it. Many of these workers voted for Trump . You get what you vote for .
42
I have observed Japanese autoworkers over a fairly long period of time. They don't socialize on the job; I have seen workers standing next to each other all day doing repetitive work...they do not talk to one another, they do not socialize. At all. They are not obsequious to management, but they follow procedures and practices to the letter. There is very little waste or re-work. They are serious about their job, whatever it is, and there does not seem to be a pecking order determined by the type of work performed. Once trained, they work their shift with almost no input from supervisors. It is not a worker's utopia, rarely they strike. They give a good days work for what they think a fair, but not extravagant wage. Nothing they do negatively impacts the customer and they seem to take pride in a product that has a good reputation. I bought the junk built at Lordstown or Rouge River, or in Ontario, Canada in the '70s and '80s....Union members cannot blame only management for those mechanical disasters. I haven't bought an American car since the introduction of the Honda Civic. I have never looked back. And do not regret it.
11
In the 1950s and 60s virtually everybody bought an American car. However, because of union greed, laziness, theft and drunkenness the American auto industry has suffered. If GM and just held tough, the Japanese auto makers would be nowhere to be found. It’s a dollar short and a day late but it’s about time GM held firm. The auto workers are two lavishly paid, produc too little, show up when they want and steal too much.
5
@Ronnie :"In the 1950s and 60s virtually everybody bought an American car."
More precisely "virtually everyone who purchased a car, purchased an American car."
Believe it or not, a lot of families did not own cars in the 1950s and 1960s. Contrary to some of the popular narratives about the suppression of mass-transit, Detroit had a functioning bus system during that period.
That's a true story.
6
I stand with the Union. Workers who actually do the building are always punished for incompetence and mismanagement at the top. Enough!
12
The greedy workers and UAW didn’t learn the lesson on 2008- terrible union contracts eventually bankrupt companies. GM- stay strong and keep your costs in check. Better to shut down another brand like Buick than to give in to the union bullies.
8
Too many people support or believe the politicians (& auto manufacturers) that talk about "keeping" jobs & factories. Nobody wants to hear the ugly truth that we all have to adapt and change and that requires sacrifice (by the workers mostly not the plant owners & industry) Same as in coal country. For years they hold on. Why didn't the local politicians raise the red flag and say decades ago "we need to start planning and changing for the future". I guess nobody was paying them to stay in power and say that.
I've lived and been in places that are gripped by a dying industry and these towns are constantly being fed false information through billboards etc by the mine owners and politicians.
When reality finally deals it's blow it's too late for these small towns.
We can't let the lies to continue and we need to continue to call these liers out.
8
In my experience the UAW protects workers that sleep, drink and do drugs - and this while being on the job. Living in Michigan I have seen my share of “workers” who brag about doing little work while they watch TV and collect paychecks for 12 hour days. They also have premium health insurance and low to no deductible. Sad. Just like our politicians the UAW is corrupt and rotten at its core.
8
i own a small business. What i am reminded of is that your company can do everything right and still have an external event come along and wipe you out. An event that is a ripple for others becomes a tidal wave at your door. My heart goes out to the small businesses caught up in this. From the parts guy, the the local pizza joint. Hard times are hard times
10
American taxpayers bailed out GM in 2008-2009 hoping they would save American jobs. The sleazy criminal GM management, however, took the money and invested it over seas, further cutting American jobs. Morally the GM executives are no different than murderers, rapists and thieves, They should be treated accordingly and given lengthy prison terms with no chance of parole until they make good on the money they took from the tax payer. They and their families should also pay additional punitive damages that addresses the misery they caused and are causing. GM should be confiscated by our govt. and sold to a company that wants to give Americans jobs.
I blame the unions. Tab A into slot B.
Gimme more....
4
"Democrats....promise to help the factory workers". Oh really, does Warren have "a plan for that"?
3
The Democrats saved the industry in 2008, the reward for which was being stabbed in the back in 2016. I am curious to see what MI and WI do in 2020.
11
I feel badly for all the workers stranded at home by this strike and the ripple effect it has across Michigan. The conditions that spawned it would be so much better handled by a Democratic administration. I hope the voters will keep that in mind in a year. And don't believe the congenital liar in the WH today.
12
@Thomas Powell Indeed. Trump doesn't give a fig about American labor. I hope it is his downfall.
4
In a story on the effects of 49,000 Unionized workers on strike, the pro-management journalists quote seven businessmen, four academic experts, one elected official--all opposed to the strike--and no workers whatsoever. This article is a perfect example of what is wrong with American journalism.
9
Really? Trump doesn't even know there's a strike going on.
2
Hopefully some union members will read the following; it is likely your leadership is guided by union busters planted in your unions to destroy you and your union. Unions have been declining for years. Understand?
1
The UAW is irrelevant and I am someone who supports the idea of workers begin organized. Somewhere along the way they got off track and have nothing for the membership.
The simple truth is that they do not offer a superior worker to the employers for the higher wage and benefit costs. My Mexican made VW is as well made as anything screwed together by UAW members and the same can be said of any number of cars and trucks assembled in non-union factories.
GM should use this strike to break the UAW. When the strike fund is depleted, hold a vote to decertify the union.
4
‘I Might Lose the Business’
Yeah, well, that's how capitalism works. Sucks don't it?
4
GM should be first in line oushing for Medicare for All, so they can stop warring with their workers over healthcare, but it seems their execs can't think so far ahead.
9
GM is loving this strike. GM has a huge inventory of unsold vehicles. Now they get to sell-down that inventory at little or no cost to them. When workers are laid off they still get paid, at reduced levels. When they strike they don't get paid at all except by their union.
9
Capitalism is action: Work for minimal pay is better than no work and no pay. All is detail...
@HapinOregon
So what’s the problem with Taxing capital again? After all work for a few billions less is still better than no pay.
The unions are problem constantly demand more for less enough already fire the lot and replace them with new workers.
6
@EAH Boy! If ever there was a obvious "Russian" troll you're it... May I suggest some more English Classes?
4
Sure, you can fire all the striking workers, just like you could crucify all the revolting slaves or hang all the rebelling serfs. But the people will always come back. This is what the bourgeoisie never understand . . . .
4
I still do not understand why big corporations are not getting behind Medicare for all proposals... wouldn’t it save them huge amounts of money in employee healthcare costs? Also it would result in increased productivity from part time and contract workers who would be newly insured?
10
@DJ Having an "independent" insurance policy makes the employers less dependent on their big corporation bosses. Anything that makes it easier for an employee to change jobs is not a good thing from a modern capitalist point of view.
9
@DJ "Savings" - All the Dems are going to tax Corps to fund single payer and nobody has any idea what it will cost.
2
@Cerad
Yes. It benefits small businesses to be more competitive. Big businesses don’t want that.
1
Haven’t owned a GM product since the Chevy Vega. That’s all I can think about when I read about GM.
5
That was over 40 years ago! Do you think it’s possible the present day new young engineers may have made some improvement since then? I have a Chevy Bolt 15,000 miles now two years no mechanical issues, one software update. A very solid little car probably the best I have ever owned.
8
@Harry GM has progressed remarkably well since then. I have a 2011 Corvette ZR1 and a 2017 Camaro ZL1. Both are engineering marvels built with high quality. It's not that I'm a blind brand loyal person. I have two Fords, a Volvo, and I've owned BMWs, a Miata, a Dodge truck and other recent vintage motor vehicles. The two Chevrolets compare favorably to all of them. Might want to open your mind and at least look first at American cars rather than keeping an opinion formed long ago.
8
@Harry
Just unnecessary.
2
I once saw a photo of GM's union-won thick rule book.
If Suzy in a non-union plant is in a job that has a temporary overstock of finished parts she could be transferred temporarily to another post.
In GM/Ford USA union rules would forbid that.
Be proud UAW, be very proud.
5
Lordstown Ohio made the Chevy Cruz.
It WAS a popular car about 10 years or so ago when it first came out.
In later years, a ride past the parking lot at Lordstown plant revealed what GM has learned: People want big, large, giant SUV's and Pickup trucks.
If the workers didn't support thier own product, why did they expect Americans to do so?
Times change. The demand for tiny cars is not there. And, the manufacturing process has changed in leaps and bounds too.
The Union members should go back to work at the wages they get now, and be glad thay have jobs that pay so much more than most people get.
After all, it's hard to claim that they "can't support a family" on thier wages, when workers at non-union auto plants DO just that.
Yes they took concessions. Yes, management makes HYUUUUGE profits and wages. The Union would be better off forging future agreements on any bailouts to include a contingency if times or demand or technology makes today's contract agreements obsolete.
Like the agreements during the bailout. Those times, although relatively recent ( the Great Recession) are gone and they ain't coming back. Demand is not there, and it's time to accept that in ten years from now, the landscape will be even MORE of a challenge to rustbelt manufacturing.
12
On the bright side, economic contraction at least slows environmental damage.
7
GM wants to "slow the growth of health care costs."
What an odd and deceptive thing to propose. GM cannot control how much health care providers, health insurance companies, drug companies charge. What they really mean is they want to reduce the amount of health benefits the company provides to employees through their contracted compensation package. Why share their increased profits with their employees?
23
@apparachik
If they REALLY wanted to slow healthcare costs they would throw their clout behind Medicare for All.
22
@apparatchick - "Why share their increased profits with their employees?"
They do, every year. Annual bonuses based on metrics GM and the UAW agreed to. Those bonuses have been between $8 - 10k the past 5 years. And it's not enough, apparently.
5
@Corbin That was funny. Incorrect, buy funny.
I find it amazing that when anyone be it private citizen or politician suggest that the US goes the way of other countries when it comes to providing health care for its citizens, this is what I hear; "no, that's socialism," or, "who's going to pay for it"?
We already have social programs that help us; Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. I am thankful we have these programs otherwise are rankings would be even lower then what is noted below.
The US ranks 37th in the world when it comes to the quality of our health care. So the myth that we have the best health care is not backed up by the World Health Organization's (WHO) statistics. The countries with the best quality are those that have a health care system for all.
We are a rich country. We pay for the things we need and maybe some things we do not. But when it comes to health care for all, we suddenly are poor and can't afford it. If all citizens have health care our outcomes would be better. It's a fact that the WHO verifies. And there are many ways to make this happen. But because of the impact it would have on the corporate bottom line of companies tied in to our health care delivery system, they are not even considered. If you look at the countries with good outcomes, the companies tied to health care do well. Doctors make a "good" living. Stress levels are less because the worries of not having health care (the inability to pay for the other necessities in life) are no longer there.
39
@bea durand
Great comment.
The last part reminds me of an article I read soon after the ACA was in effect. The writer visited a few areas that did not overwhelmingly vote for Pres. Obama .. If at all.. and asked what the greatest benefit was from having access to health care.
Quite a few said that because of that fact, their mental health improved simply because they no longer had the stress of worrying if they could actually visit a doctor. The writer was surprised by the common answer.. It was not what was expected.
4
@bea durand
Americans have no idea of how much they pay relative to other countries in terms of every input into healthcare: hospital charges for example are 2-3x what they are in other countries
5
How is it the American taxpayer - Main Street - bailed out the auto industry after the recession, but only the corporation and its 1 percent reaped the benefits of that? Why are the workers excluded from the bailout, from the prosperity? Corporate welfare. Corporate greed.
30
"Analysts estimate that G.M. has lost $600 million as a result of the strike." -N. Schwartz & D. Yaffe-Bellany
And this is further evidence for Marx's labor theory of value. GM workers aren't producing cars, value and surplus value and GM is not only not making profit, they are losing hundreds of millions of dollars!
Marx's analysis of the way capitalism works is spot on!
7
@stewarjt Yes, correct. Remember the flip side. Without capitalism and the infrastructure it builds through amassed capital, the worker would be making nothing. Even Marx wanted to use capitalism to "build the factories," with the incorrect assumption that no further building would be needed. Also understand that factory work today is fraction of what it was, thanks to unions pushing plants offshore.
4
@Ernest Montague Wow! Please stick to the things you know. Where, exactly where is the location of your Marx quote? Where, exactly where, did Marx write that?
Please unless you read A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy, Capital's three volumes, the three books of Theories of Surplus Value and the Grundrisse, don't pretend you know what Marx said.
Okay?
Last, what is capital but past labor?
Geez, what I want to write I can't because then my comment wouldn't be published.
1
A lot -- if not most -- of these people voted for Trump because he had their back, he was going to bring jobs and manufacturing back like never before. Do they in any way acknowledge the fact that his administration is doing nothing to help resolve this situation?
116
@JimBob The UAW supported Clinton, and Bernie is a good friend. I would hope that the unions can get their members to also support Democratic candidates. Given that the unions in general have declined, so has this important means of communication.
18
@JimBob The government isn't in charge of GM, GM is.
9
It’s a private business matter - he should let GM fail, their cars are garbage.
2
Living in Michigan I know quite a few people who work in and around the auto industry. Even a few that work for GM and Ford. From my understanding though, the union is striking because they thought the bailout 10 years ago meant GM owes them profits, higher wages, extremely cheap healthcare, and a guaranteed pension. They’re struggling to learn that corporations have cut every other worker out of that prosperity. No one else has the job security and benefits of a GM employee.
Union workers have failed to realize that voting down tax increases for infrastructure and other government spending, and voting for “right to work” politicians like our former governor Snyder gave companies more power than ever before. They complained about NAFTA years ago. They whined that Mexico was taking their jobs. But they failed to see that as a whole they just weren’t worth what they’re paid.
I heard stories, plenty of stories, about GM workers stealing $100’s worth of tools from the plant, showing up drunk, sleeping on the job, and getting away with all of it. GM should have fired those people but the unions were too powerful. Not that I’m saying unions are bad, but they’re too stubborn in the wrong places for far too often and they lost their appeal even in their home state (unless you’re one of the lucky GM employees).
Regardless, I’m a proud Toyota owner. I respect Toyota’s work ethic, economic prices, higher fuel efficiencies, and the fact that they still make sedans.
69
@Matt
Yes this strike is a fool's errand and will actually make the public perception of Unions worse.
Whoever is the Democratic Nominee will have their work cut out for them.
Many people living in the midwest now come from areas of the world where there are no unions and don't buy into the concept.
So although the UAW claims to be on the working man's side, they are not going to get all their demands and because the strike is interrupting small businesses and they may eventually go out of business if it goes on too long, this may actually push many towards voting for the Republican candidate in the process.
Most people now do not have a love for the unions that will stand up to being bankrupt or put out of business by the strike. The UAW is running this strike like it's still the 1970's.
When many of these people do not even have the benefits that the GM employees do now.
9
@Matt Those stories are just that, stories. Maybe 50 years ago some employees could've committed those crimes but computers and factory cameras make such crimes more easily detectable. Sleeping on the job is wage theft and like substance abuse could be a danger to the abuser and other employees. Most people will report fellow employees abusing their employers that way even if they are not caught on camera. A manager's duty is to supervise the people in their department to make sure they are doing the job they are being paid to do. If these crimes are allowed to occur it is because of the cooperation of management who aren't doing their jobs.
6
@Matt
"No one else has the job security and benefits of a GM employee. "
No they don't, and that's the problem. Vast numbers of Americans used to have job security and benefits like GM workers still have. That is gone, and our Middle Class is vanishing.
Corporations are offering more and more contractor and part time jobs that force workers to seek food stamps, Medicaid, and other taxpayer financed help to survive. Working people are essentially subsidizing corporate profits, and those profits are getting off-shored to avoid taxes.
8
One of the issues in the strike is the cost of health insurance.
Of course, we could do something sensible and have the same health insurance cover everyone in the country so no worker would have to strike anymore to eliminate that as an issue.
23
To me this comes down to this. The autoworkers have given up a great deal over the years. And GM and other companies want them to be more like Mexican workers in their expectations. And if American workers allow the corporations (and this one was saved by the taxpayers) to just amass more and more profit and not share with employees what is the end point? Trump gave GM and other companies a huge tax break. What has that done for the worker? He threatens every one else who doesn't do what he says. But corporations can do exactly as they please. And where is Trump in all this? Out chasing hoax theories. While American workers are falling further behind. Can you picture Trump on the picket lines? I sure can't.
258
Wait a minute! Trump promised all the workers of America that his massive corporate tax cut would increase average worker pay by $4000 a year. He said that many times over and so did his cabinet members.
So all GM has to do is increase the pay of all their workers by the extra $4000 they now have and everyone will be happy!
Problem solved! What? You mean to tell me the tax cut money didn't flow into workers pockets anywhere? Gosh! Did Trump lie to everyone to payoff corporations to buy their allegiance? Oh, that's right. Don't pay any attention to Trump's words. Just listen to what's in his heart.
148
@Bruce Rozenblit What heart?
7
@Bruce Rozenblit "Just listen to what's in his heart." I suspect he's heartless as well as brainless - empty vessels make the most noise as they say.
7
Didn't these manual workers vote for the stable genius? Let them reap what they sowed?
14
Can these auto workers get a bailout like the farmers did? After all, they are all patriotic Americans and deserve the same consideration as those welfare farmers.
20
Any business that can’t weather a strike like this is poorly capitalized and going to shut down either way
3
This is the story you'd hear 30 years ago when the big three were on strike every four years.
3
Greedy union workers demanding even more from a company that 10 years ago was on the verge of bankruptcy. If not for a bailout funded by the tax dollars of every other hard working American, these same union members would be out of work and on the public dole. Be happy you have a job, with lavish benefits and a pension to boot, and stop trying to ring even more blood out of the dry turnip that is General Motors today.
8
@paul Dry Turnip?? A little too close to Rip Van Winkle country are we... "GM 4th quarter 2018 earnings $10.8 Billion... down from 2017 profit of $11.9 Billion."
@paul
Except GM is making huge profits, but why consider the truth when the lies back-up your argument.
"GM Financial generated 2018 full-year earnings before tax (EBT) of $1.9 billion, up 58.3 percent compared to. 2017, on revenue of $14.0 billion".
Nice try at distorting the facts.
You of course mean the economic costs of management's greed and intransigence, right? That's what "strike" stands for, I take it?
Oh, right: you guys fired your labor reporter years ago. At least you're allowing his book to be reviewed today.
6
When I lived in Europe I "suffered" the consequences of one-day strikes against my commuter railroad, strikes intended to display the power of the union.
In the USA we have strikes to-the-death that threaten the very existence of manufacturers and other targeted employers.
Japan, China and other competing countries should build memorials to the Reuther brothers who introduced this utterly stupid "win the battle and lose the war" tactic which has inflicted irreversible damage to the USA.
5
Keep buying foreign made products and your industrial base will be hollowed out.
1
@JDK
Every domestic auto company car we ever bought barely outlasted the payment. You just hoped it would last until the last payment. After 25 years of buying their junk we were done. We decided to buy foreign and get a quality built car that will last longer than 4 years. If the Big 3 don't like it maybe they should take a page out of Honda/Toyota playbook and actually allow their workers to make a quality built auto that Americans like us will buy. Our Toyota Prius has almost 100K and the only repair so far was brakes at 98K miles. We work hard for our money to throw it away on cars that are ready for the junkyard at 100 thousand miles. Oh but they can't make a quality built car that. That might cut into their revenue. The stock owners wouldn't like that.
2
@Sharon
Yesterday my husband and I said ‘goodbye’ to our 20-year-old Ford Explorer. Most reliable car we’ve ever owned. Besides regular, expected maintenance (e.g. one set of new brakes) she spent zero time in the shop. She was still going strong at 185,000 miles, but we decided we needed a more fuel efficient car. I almost wept as her lucky new owner drive her away.
2
@sharon
I have owned 2 Ford trucks (Bronco and F150) since 1994 and both have held up very well and have cost less to maintain than the Toyotas my wife has owned.
The Ford/Mercury car that I bought in 1971 was a piece of junk from many perspectives. We owned several Volvos before the Toyotas and it will be a while before I buy another Volvo, they are high priced and two of ours spent a lot of time in the shop before they got to 100k miles.
Ford has its act together on truck quality, unfortunately they are gas guzzlers in city driving. GM does not have its act together on truck quality and the sales trends show this.
These comments aren't relevant to the article, I just wanted to reply to Sharon.
1
Yes, strikes are hard on everyone, including workers.
And I understand that the American car industry is in crisis, even though some sectors are profitable.
I don't think it's the workers' fault. American cars are for the most part poorly designed and built. We need to take a good hard look at management.
11
This smacks of the 1970/80’s in the UK, FORD Used to engineer strikes to cease production it was cheaper and easier than attempting to cut the work force to cut production, of cars you cannot sell or even give away at a loss.
The long term Result.
Ford closed every assembly plant in The UK moving to Belgium, Spain, and eventually the old eastern block countries or Turkey.
The only Car plants in the UK now are way out of the traditional areas and “Foreign” owned but as Trump doesn’t understand the inward investment, accelerates the debt.
2
I'm not necessarily a pro-union person. However, these union members took a huge hit to keep GM afloat a decade ago. They sacrificed in a big way. Now executives are garnering massive bonuses and the union members have not been made whole in over ten years. I support this strike.
15
@XXX
Americans are 40% more productive and received none of the profits. I support every American to strike.
"the two sides hit a roadblock this weekend on how production might be moved to the United States from Mexico. "
In the minds of many forward thinkers, labor-intensive assembly in a lower cost country is fate accompli. You can find this sentiment on the NYT OP-ED pages. Those arguing otherwise are considered politically regressive who want a return to the bad old days of the Post-War years with manufacturing providing the drive for the middle class expansion. This sector provided well paying jobs for semi-skilled and skilled labor. However many forward thinkers on these boards have pointed out: "the jobs aren't coming back".
But now comes Elizabeth Warren who said the following to UAW strikers at the GM Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Plant:
“G.M. is demonstrating that it has no loyalty to the workers of America or the people of America,”
“Their only loyalty is to their own bottom line. And if they can save a nickel by moving a job to Mexico or to Asia or to anywhere else on this planet, they will do it.”
(NYT, Sept. 22, 2019)
Trump may not have delivered on his promises but it will be interesting to see what a Warren presidency will do to prevent or slow down corporations from taking actions like moving jobs to "Mexico or to Asia or to anywhere else on this planet," to save that nickel.
There you have it. Stop the ripple effect that is the subject of lamentations here by preventing movement of manufacturing labor to places like Mexico or Asia. No?
5
I’m afraid. Neither Trump nor Warren can do much unless they change WTO inward investment and government investment policy.
GM can’t be help unless it is in bankruptcy as Obama did even then WTO complained Yet Tennessee pays Subaru/Toyota billions to get new factories and push the US debt.
Ford have long complained about this even Toyota will soon be regarded by WTO as US after X number of years as a Us producer which might be why Subaru now build factory making Toyota suv.
Democrats are much better for the working class than Republicans.
Still, what can Democrats do for GM workers?
One thing that might help both GM and their workers is Medicare for all.
18
@Independent Unions have better insurance than that.
13
@Independent
I'm an East Coast Liberal, but even I know that Medicare for All, especially for a Union worker, is anathema.
9
@Mars & Minerva
Did you miss GM threatening to end the health care coverage of striking workers? They backed off, but there's nothing to say they (or another company) can't use the same threat in the future. It's a benefit that unions bargained and sweated for, but it's another thing for the companies to hold over their employees.
12
Germany seems to be doing well with mid-size manufacturing and automation.
On the other hand, the largest BMW plant is in South Carolina.
4
@Independent
Germany still remembers that large numbers of unemployed people who think the deck is stacked against them will turn to an authoritarian leader who lies, creates scapegoats for them to hate, and tells them he'll make the country great again. Germany learn a terrible lesson, and they have not yet forgotten it.
Looks like it might be a lesson we're about to learn.
1
Why is "I might lose the business" something that bothers conservatives? The idea behind the "free market" Conservatism advocates is that it's okay to let bad businesses fail.
22
@Randall I don't think it bothers conservatives at all. Its an emotional pitch about a business that was probably in trouble before the strike began. 4 weeks should not sink anyone unless you are running a shop on the margins
4
Maybe the UAW should sell their resort in Northern Michigan so that they can offer their workers more than $250/week in strike pay.
14
@Kohl
I wonder why so many people resent the UAW having a modest retreat for a few of its members to occasionally use for Union business meetings. I know they will be relieved to learn that the retreat at Black Lake, near Onaway, Mi, has been forced to “capitalize” the facility by charging people, members and non members, to pay market prices when staying there for anything other than UAW business. The golf course charges market prices for everyone, always. It’s main claim to fame (other than its organization at the behest of the pioneer union organizer, Walter Reuther), is that Lucille Ball and Desi Arnez spent their honeymoon there.
4
But according to trump we have a perfect, great economy. Where is he? Oh must be a bit distracted at the moment.
25
As a Flint native, I can confirm Luigi's pizza makes even this fussy New York pizza snob happy. When in Flint, try it! I wish there was a remote way to help Ma & Pa businesses other than just donating cash.
11
Did they vote for Trump?
Disgraceful, corrupt leadership of the fat cat UAW would rather continue this CATASTROPHIC strike than face charges and go to JAIL where it belongs.
7
"G.M. wants workers to pick up more of their health care costs" I can't help but see the connection between this strike and health care - "Its the health care - stupid!" Workers are paying extortion level prices for health care, and we wonder why they go on strike.
A solution exists. Its called medicare for all. Would this strik have happened if GM didn't have health care on its books?
Every country that has done a version of single payer, has a better system than we do. Every. Single. One. Literally no one outside the U.S. thinks our system is the best. Its a shame really. I think eventually we will figure it out, but in the meantime we are wasting so much.
37
Very well said. I don’t see any country adopting the American system. That says a lot for our broken system.
12
@Jake -- I beg your pardon. Those folks not eligible for subsidies are paying through the nose for Obamacare. What sets these workers apart? Let everyone pay their share.
2
I guess you don’t see all the people coming to America to get the care they need, either.
Our system needs changes; insurance companies currently dictate to doctors as well as patients. But I also know that in the last two years, my Canadian brother-in-law has asked us for money to pay for necessary procedures.
I think that what Americans imagine when they hear “Medicare for all” is very different from what the reality will be.
3
Whether trade wars or labor wars there are always collateral damages. When we depend too much on just a few trading partners, whether it's a country or a company, we put our eggs in one basket.
Subsidizing the tech companies, auto and airplane manufactures and all the other monopolies concentrates wealth and power.
The tax breaks Big Auto has gotten under both Obama and Trump has compounded the problem. Instead give loans to small businesses, invest in R&D and spread the money to encourage startups and innovation and become competitors to GM. Boeing, FB, Google, et al. It is better for the economy and better fro the consumers.
"As goes GM, so goes the Nation" - and it ain't looking good.
4
The reason GM exists at all is that President Obama saved it, and the rest of the U.S. auto industry, with bailouts that those companies have paid back, with interest, turning a profit for the American people. Don't put that courageous act in the same basket as Trump's and Republicans' scam of a tax cut that benefited mostly the obscenely rich, especially Trump.
Thanks, Obama.
4
The human impact of this strike is being felt acutely now, with no end in sight...yet. Is there any chance they may return to work...while 'talks' continue till a mutually satisfactory deal is reached? Can't we see this strike will impact negatively all involved, and take longer to recover...the longer it sits idle, unproductive, to the point of finding lasting alternatives deleterious to America? Or is dialogue dead already?
1
So I hope that those blue collar workers who voted for Trump see just how great MAGA is working!
For the top 1% and, Wall Street and Oil industry.
For the rest of us, our environment and a few billion birds?
Not so much.
35
@JDH -- actually billions of fewer birds now, thanks to environmental policies, pesticides, and destruction of the birds' environment.
2
@JDH And lets not forget our land "developers". That's an oxymoron word if I ever heard one. Here in NJ, the "developers" are making quick work of every open space cutting down trees and forest at a break neck speed. I would like to see an image of NJ over a ten year period to view how much forest and trees were lost to "development". It's no wonder there is 29 million less birds in the world.
2
@JDH Birds and millions of feral cats don't mix or play well together
2
Far from defending GM, they feel the same pressure all manufacturers do. Supply chains are easy to change and price is typically the driving force. Ergo, they move offshore.
But it doesn't have to be this way. America was once an innovation monster. If we had a functional government that worked for the people, we'd have stimulus programs and massive retraining efforts.
Instead, we have 535 congresspeople who are primarily concerned for their reelection lead by a sociopath president who is using the presidency to line his pockets.
It's up to us to no longer tolerate a system that lavishes fantastic benefits on the uber wealthy but tells the 99% there's no enough $$ for health care, education and addressing Climate Change.
Americans need to emulate the Hong Kong freedom fighters who refuse to accept a totalitarian gov that controls every aspect of their lives.
The first order of business is the removal of Trump. The second is a global investigation into all of the felons who partake of his corruption and the flaws in our legislative process that allowed this cancer to reach stage 4.
35
@manufacturing CEO
Thank you! Well said.
2
As some commenters have pointed out, democrats have not really dealt with this issue effectively either. I think the person who has the best plan to address issues like these is Andrew Yang. One of the books Yang read that convinced him that the Freedom Dividend (1000$ per month to all adult citizens) was written by a former union president. By having a guaranteed income, people will still need to work to have quality of life, but being out of job will not mean immediately being evicted, going hungry, etc.
Additionally, Yang is not oblivious when it comes to the benefits and dangers of automation. This particular crisis in GM is largely because the company will be shifting towards more electric vehicles. On the other hand, electric cars will be far better for the environment. Yang has many different plans to make sure the gains of technology are spread to the masses, and the acute losses are addressed. He's not promising to make coal miners into coders, (retraining programs have very low success rates) but he is making it so that the blow is softened and people have to resources to get back on their feet.
25
@Will UBI is a trojan horse to further erode what social safety nets still exist. Yang is Ross Perot for millennial NEETs.
4
After Obama saved the US auto industry, many UAW workers jobs were saved. After Trump cut corporate taxes, profits were supposed to trickle down. GM's didn't, because they never really do, trickle down is a joke.
Maybe some of the people of the Midwest cannot see the clear contrast between the two parties and swing those states back blue, one party saved jobs, the other is killing them.
100
@BullMoose2020
The US auto industry has been in decline for decades. Much of it started due to the greedy UAW demanding insanely high wages & benefits, yet the US auto industry continued to poor quality vehicles vs. imports, so the greedy UAW could get paid.
This has nothing to to do with "corporate taxes" and everything to do with globalization.
GM recognizes that the future lies in electric vehicles.
12
@Jack Forbes has an article called How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much.
So the Bull above is not the Moose.
17
@BullMoose2020,
Wisconsin and Michigan kicked out Republican governors in 2018 and put Democrats in their place. That's blue, isn't it?
1
I am sorry but the GM union workers do not get it. Why on earth do they think that GM management is going to move work from Mexico back to the US? Why? What world are they living in? And climate change is REAL. It is HERE and it's going to get a lot worse. We can't keep driving these gas guzzling trucks forever - we will all be driving EV whether we want to or not a lot sooner than we all think. They need to live in the real world! The world is changing radically.
27
@Sarah99 :"What world are they living in?"
Maybe they're listening to Elizabeth Warren.
From NYT, Sept. 22, 2019:
"Ms. Warren criticized G.M. for closing plants while making billions of dollars in profits. 'G.M. is demonstrating that it has no loyalty to the workers of America or the people of America,' she said. 'Their only loyalty is to their own bottom line. And if they can save a nickel by moving a job to Mexico or to Asia or to anywhere else on this planet, they will do it.' "
From Warren's mouth to your ear.
Your question seems to apply not only to the striking UAW members.
The fat cats in the UAW can only afford to pay its membership $250 a week? I certainly hope that the leadership is surviving on that measly stipend too in support of those to support them.
11
Seems to me with the strike almost a month old we would have heard something from the president or our new Secretary of Labor, Eugene Scalia, about it. I seem to remember this type of thing used to happen in our country.
So, is it time for Trump. red faced, to scream a moronic press conference in front of the idling helicopter that in the end will say and do nothing to solve the problem? You know, where he'll tell us "we'll see what happens".
I guess he's reluctant to step in since there's no obvious enemy he can dump on (yet).
40
@Eliot I totally agree......
Where..........
Is......
The.........
President...??..?!!???
Trump’s got enough money to help out...or does he?
12
trump supporters: the president tells all of us that you're so patriotic that you'll happily swallow the death of your company, all your investments, in order to make him look good to the Communist government of China. He has said so, about his voters in ranching, agriculture, the auto industry, all mom/pop businesses along the southern border, etc.
Is that true?
40
Give the union what it wants.
16
There is no place for unions anymore. Protectors of mediocrity.
9
@michael sherman md Oh really? If business continues as the trend in this decade we'll only be working a gig economy with no benefits, no pension, no 401(k), no health care coverage, no paid vacation. Just work, get sick and die. Sounds like utopia to you? That's exactly where corporations are heading.
1
Thanks for voting Trump, Michigan! Don't say the "graduates" of Trump University didn't warn you.
65
@Purple Spain what does THIS strike, oh utterly clueless one, have to do with the PRESIDENT of the US ????????
Don't trouble your little brain, the answer is NOTHING.
Antidote: Warren/Booker 2020
17
My thoughts exactly! Though Sanders Klobachar would be good too.
7
@American sure, they would be great. NOT!!!!! WHat is wrong with the water in portland OR>?????
Perhaps if General Motors executives designed and sold a decent car, they wouldn't be so reluctant to compensate their workers fairly.
Do what the Germans and the Japanese and Tesla are doing, GM.
Your products are awful.
28
@Socrates Easier said than done. There are tariffs that make american made sedans impossible to manufacture and sell at decent margins. UAW contracts make it hard for the Big 3 to change their products because lots of jobs at those companies are tied to individual product lines.
2
@Socrates,
All US automakers are already aligned with Japanese automakers to some extent. GM has a relationship with Toyota.
@Socrates :"Do what the Germans and the Japanese and Tesla are doing, GM."
Good suggestion. In the US that means having non-UAW labor assemble the vehicles.
2
Here is the website to help the workers and their families. We all need to be supporting unions right now in America.
https://uaw.org
10
@CarolSon,
All for unions; my working-class parents received decent wages and benefits by being union members. But thought the UAW web site would have a link to provide material aid to the strikers. That's would what I'd like to do. If it did, please indicate where it is.
The Union does not care. They are getting paid. Their members will never make up the lost wages, but the union does not care. They have their members believing that it is about principles, but principles don't pay the rent. The union is harming its membership and the communities, but they don't care, they are getting paid.
15
@Bruce1253 you could replace the word "union" with "trump" or "republicans", then it would make sense....
If that trucking company owner lays off his entire staff immediately and is bankrupt in a month, he isn't a very good businessman.
9
@Mtnman1963 Trucking is cut throat also .Freight rates are underbid ,probably what happened in this case.Drivers get underpaid and equiptment ,trucks and trailers are expensive to run. Warehouses have crews of undocumented workers run by a subcontractor to cut wages .
7
Many UAW workers voted for the conn, the business man who would bring back manufacturing like the 1950’s. He has given farmers hundreds of billions in welfare because of his wonderful tariffs, you know the Trump tax. Where is he now, why isn’t the man with the most wisdom negotiating for these ardent supporters. He’s out golfing , tweeting and obstructing justice. Then ask yourselves why GM builds the Silverado in Mexico, it’s because they have 2.5 retired workers for every active one. I can’t wait for a new GM truck to cost $100K, no thank you.
19
There will be no improvement as long as corporations can buy our politicians. The great scam is that the workers have been convinced that they will do well when the economy does well. Well, that is a lie. The economy is supposedly doing well, but as it turns out only for moneyed interests.
The serfs have been very compliant and keep voting for representatives of the masters. So, they in fact are getting what they voted for.
26
Anything worth attaining is at least somewhat painful.
We have non-existent wage and benefit growth across the economy, record profits and wealth disparity.
Why are we not in the midst of a tsunami of strikes??
11
Would it make sense to simply give all Union Workers equity in GM? That way UAW members can benefit even if their jobs were eliminated, which is probably the reality that both GM and UAW are trying to avoid.
5
Anyone that supports the unions should not buy a GM car. Once a GM feels the slow down the time will change.
2
@BR
No, they will just cut more workers and close more plants, in the US (not Mexico). They want to pivot to electric vehicles ASAP.
3
@BR I got a rental Impala after someone clipped my car and it was being fixed. Couldn't wait to get my Camry back. What a rattletrap that Chevy was - 5K miles, 24 mpg. My Camry is the same size and twice the fuel economy.
3
So you’re getting 48 mpg in Camry? I don’t believe that. And you just can’t compare a rental car as a good example of a normal car. People that rent car abuse them beyond what is normal and it could have been in and accident. I have two 2017 Chevy’s and there are no rattles and no problem yet. The one does not get 48 mpg though and the other doesn’t use any gas, see if you can find a Toyota that can say that!
1
Politics aside, I support the workers, strikers and hope this pain ends soon.
20
GM, like many other corporations, have posted year over year record profits since the bailout.
Also like at other major corporations, the workers WHO MADE THOSE PROFITS POSSIBLE, have been locked out of receiving compensation commensurate with their productivity.
In 2018, GM posted a profit, not income, but PROFIT, of almost $11 Billion. Workers are entitled to benefit from their labor. The idea that Americans should be reduced to slave wages when corporations are posting multi-billion dollar quarterly profits is absurd.
I fully support the UAW, and all American workers who fight to earn a fair share of their efforts which make such profits possible.
Signed,
US Army Veteran - OEF & OIF
75
@Austin Ouellette I believe GM, in addition to pay, has a profit sharing plan that pays out once a year.
1
@Austin Ouellette What about the profit sharing that GM provided? In 2018, checks of up to $10750 were paid to 46500 UAW workers. In 2017, checks of up to $11750 were paid to 50000 UAW workers.
You can't say that GM hasn't been sharing profit with its UAW workers.
3
Not to worry! This will soon garner the attention of the very stable genius with unmatched wisdom.
31
@Atruth But only for a few seconds, as his unmatched wisdom is matched by his toddler's attention span. And that's unfair to toddlers so perhaps King Orange Top's attention span rivals that of a gnat or fruit fly.
16
@Atruth As the late GHWB said, if u r so smart, why aren't u president and Trump is?
1
Two central, but missing facts
1. American auto companies that assemble their cars in Mexico would also have to use more US-made car parts to avoid tariffs, which would help US factory workers. And about 40 percent of those cars would have to be made by workers earning at least $16 an hour — three times more than Mexico’s minimum wage for an entire work day.
Source Vox "Trump’s new trade deal is better for workers than NAFTA was" Nov 30, 2018
2. The import tariff on foreign made pick -up trucks is and has been 25% since 1964. It is this tariff that kept the automotive industry in the US - the 3 top selling vehicles in the US, last year, were all pick-ups , where profit margins are higher - because of lack of foreign competition - then for passenger cars. It is the cental leverage for the UAW
The fact is that Trump did more for UAW workers than the Democrats. I write this as a lifelong Democratic voter, , who voted for Sanders in the NY primary, and as one, whose first job was to plate automotive bumpers with a triple layer of copper, nickel and ch and chrome.
6
American cars and trucks , as well as parts that are made in Mexico are not subjected to tariffs. Check your facts. Tariffs are a tax that Americans pay for. Ask a farmer how that’s going?
6
@Steve Cars are specifically subject to tariffs. Check YOUR facts.
//The Chicken Tax is a 25 percent tariff on light trucks (and originally on potato starch, dextrin, and brandy) imposed in 1964 by the United States under President Lyndon B. Johnson in response to tariffs placed by France and West Germany on importation of U.S. chicken.[1] The period from 1961–1964[2] of tensions and negotiations surrounding the issue was known as the "Chicken War," taking place at the height of Cold War politics.[3]
Eventually, the tariffs on potato starch, dextrin, and brandy were lifted,[4] but **since 1964 this form of protectionism has remained in place to give U.S. domestic automakers** an advantage over competition (e.g., from Japan and Thailand).[5]//
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
@Viv if you read my post , I said American cars and trucks. The tariffs you are referring to are foreign vehicles. A Chevy pickup assembled in Mexico costs the same as one assembled in the states
A caution to those who believe the strike works against Trump - all the Democrats running for President support the strike with little concern for the collateral damage it is causing. Add to that the historic corruption in the UAW and people like Liz Warren may be walking into a historic political mess. Plus Trump has berated GM for 3 years.
4
@Chris Agree with all, but Whacko Warren is in luck, as Biden was slipping way before the revelations about his son and Ukraine, and Sanders' heart attack will soon end h is already weak campaign and his supporters will naturally go to the other pretend-socialist in the race, WARREN.
@Chris
Yes, concerned about the Democratic candidates, Warren too left for Americans, Biden ethically tainted, too old, Bernie needs to drop out, worried he’ll be a spoiler, again.
3
@Chris I stand with the workers who produce the record profits for billionaires.
4
I'm a union supporter -- only because the alternative is wage peonage or outright slavery. But, the union has to educate their workers that EVs are the wave of the future, and that future is within their own timeframe. There will not be as many workers needed to assemble these vehicles since they are basically just batteries on wheels. This should also be evident to the parts suppliers because they are now experiencing a near future event when all the parts they manufacture are not needed. It is comforting to try to hang on to the past (god, I'd love to be 16-years of age again) and remember the good times when a person could get a job without any skill whatsoever and that job would allow for the raising of a family. That has not existed for a long time. So, the UAW has been able to extend the past into today but the bubble is about to burst. Unless the union members wake up and get some other kind of education, many are going to be on the unemployment lines on a permanent basis. Although the United States does not have a policy regarding EVs, or climate change for that matter, Ireland (a rather small country), for example, has a plan to ban the sale of internal combustion and diesel vehicles by 2030 and have them completely off the road by 2045. Similar plans exist throughout Europe. Likewise, China (the largest auto market in the world), has requirements for the sale of EVs instead of ICE cars. GM is not going to build both styles of vehicles forever.
21
@Joseph true, but EVs will especially hurt dealers, who make most of their money from their ludicrously overpriced SERVICE, and EVs need far less service than ICE cars.
7
@Joseph
There is nothing wrong with unions, for proof of that look at Germany's heavily unionized, well-paying, spectacularly successful manufacturing sector. The problem in the US is not the existence of unions, it is the highly adversarial and destructive labor relations environment, which has harmed employers and employees alike. Unfortunately it seems the only way to avoid that environment is not to have a union, thus the decline of unions in America.
11
I believe we were all promised that a massive tax cut to the top one percent, getting rid of regulations (especially environmental), and placing tariffs on China, Europe, Canada and Mexico, and stopping immigrants and refugees from entering the country would result in unbridled creation of well paying and abundant manufacturing and mining jobs all across the U.S. Given all that Trump and the Republicans have done in this regard, it would seem that laid off employees in Michigan should have no problem finding any one of the more than numerous well paying Michigan manufacturing jobs available in Michigan and elsewhere. Where's the problem? Trump 2020!
22
I couldn't care less about these auto workers on strike and the down stream effects on business. These folks have continued to vote against Democrats, the party that supports unions. They did that because they thought free trade, which Republicans were for, and Clinton just climbed aboard for, was hurting them. Well now they are reaping what they've sown. Always vote for the party that supports unions and you won't have these problems.
19
Even the President of the US puts himself first in all things, why not everyone else? As the President so wisely says, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you and your country can do for me." That is what GM executives should be asking. What can they obtain that they didn't have before?
"Ask not what GM can do for the Union. Ask what you and the Union can do for GM." The GM executives will still get their huge salaries and bonuses, especially if they break the Union.
9
Perhaps all the related companies — parts, trucking, etc. — and associated entities should get behind the workers and the UAW. Show GM that a wide swath of folks want the strike to end on terms that recognize reasonable requests from the union, as it would gave been , in part, their tax dollars that helped bail GM out in the first place.
Surely nobody believes that Trump gives a hoot about the working class, so nobody should expect anything positive from that direction, regardless of what he might have promised to get their vote in the past .
11
Mr. Tlaib: What kind of management requires you to fire almost all of your employees and dip into personal savings when one customer goes on strike for three weeks? I guess the same style that makes you say "All we can do is wait, smoke and watch the news".
If you want to own a business and employ people, then grow up and be responsible! Find ways to not just depend on one customer - your responsibility as a manager is to grow a business sustainably.
11
@Dennis Most businesses would have cash flow problems if their primary customer stopped paying them for 3 weeks. Many wouldn't last that long if the percentage of their total revenue from that customer was large enough. Mr Tlaib's company appears to do almost all of its business with GM - and given that GM made a good profit last year, that probably has been a lucrative strategy for him... until now.
2
Why isn't Trump on the picket line with all of his Make America Great bro's? I am certain that a significant number of those walking the picket line voted for Trump--thinking he really cared about the working man and women--how naive. Trump hates unions and everything they stand for. The only jobs Trump wants back in this country are low wage service jobs--aimed at serving his hotel chain business.
45
@Amanda Jones
These voters got fooled by trump. Abillionaire cares about the working ass never heard of. In fact it does not exist on this world. You have to not care about a working class to be a billionaire. Vote trump out.
@Amanda Jones Such waste of time is for no good congressmen and women such as the antisemite palestinian who was banned from Israel (of course she is a DEM)... NOT for people who are expected to govern not just the vast US economy, but the WORLD, such as the POTUS, who is called "Planetarch" overseas.
Don't worry. In a global economy dominated by foreign manufacturers, this is just the union killing the golden goose.
8
@Kent Kraus yeah why should workers share in the profits their labor makes possible.
4
Can somebody explain why GM is still a thing? For decades their products have been a disgrace, and their contempt for their customers knows no bounds. They (and Ford) make money selling carbon-spewing light trucks behind a tariff wall. Time to, as they just did for the costly and much-hyped Volt, pull the plug.
13
I have two 2017 Chevy’s a Bolt and a Camaro both have had no problems other than a software up grade on the Bolt it’s unfair to say their cars are all junk. I doubt you have owned any in a long time and you just can’t believe they have improved.
2
Well, what a shame. Let GM give it up and all shall be well. PS - the biggest toll is on the striking workers.
2
Unfortunately the UAW is shooting itself in the foot here and harming a lot of other people.
7
The parts factory picture here looks it was taken in the Rosebud scene of Citizen Kane, only a bit neater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr93wwtiKQM
1
I think the Union is burning its bridges. They demand to reopen two plants yet people are driving less cars. There is no demand for more cars or more plants.
Union workers protest for more pay for temporary workers....why can't they just be happy w permanent workers getting a raise?
They act like they are "owed" more money for not getting paid more in 2009 instead of being grateful simply to have been able to stay employed. Naive and entitled.
Although, in general, I support unions, in this case, I think this Union has way over reached and is being self destructive and arrogant. I don't sympathize on their behalf.
14
Dolly: The union and it's members, and GM both have a reason for what they're doing with the temp workers. The union and it's members are protesting about the temp workforce to protect themselves, not because they love the temp workers.
The more temp workers GM has, the less union workers they need. With the temps they're free to terminate, call them in or let them go as needed; less money in wages, benefits and cost, more flexibility. Not as easy or cheap to layoff or terminate a union member. Eventually the current union members will retire. GM's not looking to replace their current union members with more of the same with their union rights, benefits and pay.
I understand what GM is trying to do. I also understand and support the union so worker's aren't exploited. There's a balance in there somewhere. As far as the medical cost, another poster mentioned about getting health care under control, agree with that also as that would resolve one of the issues.
3
@Dolly Patterson That's how negotiating works. You make demands and negotiate down from there.
1
“G.M. wants workers to pick up more of their health care costs...”
If we had Medicare for all, this would be a nonissue, and US corporations would be more competitive globally. But unfortunately, we have backwards politicians who stay loyal to the health insurance industry, when they could be greatly benefiting corporate America generally, as well as the public.
77
@Ed Watters As long as somebody ELSE pays your health care, your HC Costs will continue to SKYROCKET beyond any reason. Hospitals charge OUTRAGEOUS amounts for an overnight stay, but nobody complains because OTHERS pay it.
9
@Ed Watters If we have Medicare for All these GM workers will be paying a lot more for their health care and they know that. Why would they want that to change?
3
@Ed Watters The UAW created the third party insurance system. They were the ones that negotiated and ensconced health care as a benefit for workers. It was a good idea at the time, but it’s an out of control business killer right now. When I first started working in the 70’s only UAW and teachers had third party insurance for health care. They abused it as an entitlement, then everyone else wanted the same benefit. Health care is broken in large part because of the UAW. We all work hard, we all deserve health care, single payer is the only answer.
4
One of the basic premises I learned early on in life was to put my well being first over everything else. Savings and investments were siphoned off every paycheck before anything else. I lived well below my means and never spent what I didn't have. I was taught by my mother to be responsible for my own well being and not dependent on others....including the companies I worked for. They exist to make a profit at whatever expense there is to the worker. Workers are pawns and only numbers to companies. We are all expendable in this big cruel world and the 21st century will be especially cruel to those not prepared.
17
@Bella The corporation's profits exist because of the workers, and they deserve to share in them. GM has not shared its recent profits. Workers are more than pawns and if GM wants to continue its good run, they better settle soon, or another American company will fall into ruin, not because it isn't profitable, but because of corporate greed.
7
@BullMoose2020 GM has absolutely "shared its recent profits" -- over the past four years profit sharing checks have averaged $11k-$12k/UAW worker such that the average GM hourly employee earns ~$90k BEFORE benefits. Include the gold-plated health care and other benefits they receive and all-in compensation is closer to $120-$140k. GM's UAW workers are amongst the most highly compensated blue collar workers in the world (well above market rate) - do they really deserve more? Yes, CEO Barra makes millions, but that is the market rate.
9
@CarGuy
Sorry you are absolutely wrong and spreading falsehood. There was recent NYT article purporting some of the GM hires since 2009 barely makes $16-17/hr which is close to minimum wage in coastal cities like NYC, Seattle.
6
Watching all this from afar the auto workers in America working in a non-union environment must be very happy with their situation.
5
On the contrary, when unions are defeated all workers lose. And, conversely, Union wages in any industry tend raise salaries of non Union employees as well. Intelligent workers understand this very well. Organising into Unions is the only defense the working class has against the otherwise all powerful capitalist class.
38
@Red Allover
And when unions win what happens? Unfortunately in most cases the workers lose again, it just takes a little longer because the defeat comes as a result of outsourcing, mechanization, or the downsizing or bankruptcy of the employer.
1
@gbc1 so workers must accept whatever their lords feel like giving them
2
“Lansing has two G.M. plants but their economic weight is counterbalanced by the state government and the city’s hospital system, said Andy Schor, the city’s mayor. Another large employer, Michigan State University, is nearby.”
Translation: If they didn’t have government jobs to help counterbalance the disruptive effects of commercial entities they’d be ruined. But I bet Trump’s base still thinks we should get rid of those government jobs staffed by lazy dead-wood workers like me (I worked for the US Dept of Commerce for 26 years). Then what?
18
$250 a week? With all the Union dues workers pay out, that seems a bit paltry. Nevertheless, Workers need to learn a valuable lesson from previous negotiations. The UAW always went after GM first to set the bar in upcoming negotiations with Ford and Chrysler. This time it's different. Past concessions put GM in a precarious position if a demand downturn came about, which it did leading to a Government bailout 10 years ago.
For the last 50 years, there has been an overcapacity in world car manufacturing; meaning there have been too many cars produced world wide. Car manufactures are not in a position to offer workers the Golden Goose of wages and benefits. The average new car buyer in the U.S. has a 7 year loan. The used car market is where the money is being made
by dealers today. Buyers simply can't negotiate better deals vs the new car market.
This is now a waiting game between workers, UAW and GM. How long can workers support there family on $250/week?
Workers and their advisers (UAW) need to wake up and smell the dawn of the new age economy.
7
@Bill Woodson Wake up and do what, accept being exploited? GM benefited greatly from the recent corporate tax cuts, profits have not turned into better wages.
9
If the suppliers start to go out of business they won’t be able to easily replace those parts. Production won’t just start back up after this ends.
5
What do the managers and owners of the Trump Organization care about the economy of the Midwest during the G.M. strike?
7
The statistic that 8% of the Michigan economy is auto-related is highly misleading. First, this includes what a retiree is spending in Traverse City along with a furniture manufacturer in Grand Rapids. In Southeast Michigan, 75% of the population is directly or indirectly tied to automotive.
Conversation I had with someone:
Other person: I have nothing to do with automotive. I work in software
Me: Who are your customers.
Other person: Mostly automotive companies.
Me: Then you are in automotive.
29
@DeeBee SO??? DO you approve of the CORRUPT UAW Leadership?
1
When will the Union workers realized that every other private companies workers are paying more for their healthcare and take away pension and put into 401k plan? Time have changed! I will retired as a millionairs because I went to school and studied and learned of compounding interests really work, all while in high school! I started to invested at age of 21! Unions please educate yourselves and stop making other peoples responsible for your healthcare or retirement plans? Btw I don't even make close to 6figure. If I own a company and my workers can't figure out how to invest for their own retirement, I wouldn't think they are smart enough to be employed!
4
@bay1111uq
And yet the CEO collected $22millions last year, 240x avg. GM worker.
7
GM has over many decades shown itself to be first in line for profiteering and in line for bailouts, but last in the line for good ideas. Every union member knows that a strike is a last resort and one which has lasting consequences. It is easier to go out on strike that to end it. So in the game of economic chicken the top management at GM bet that union leadership was not the real voice of the employees, a mistake too many smug employers have found to their dismay, but with Trump showing the way on toughness, and definitely not the way in ideas, the company went all in on their deuces. The employees see outsourcing, moving jobs south of the border, and benefits cut while the billions pile up in headquarters, where smug bean counters assume they can do as they will without accountability to employees who stood by the company through thick and thin. The company which opposed safety glass as too expensive decades ago still fails to see the big picture and who makes GM work.
28
The GM union folks think they are still living in the 20th Century. But the world turns and they simply do not have the leverage they did 30 or 40 years ago. They are going to cause a lot of unnecessary pain to themselves and their neighbors and come away from it behind, not ahead.
12
@ehillesum,
This is precisely what they failed to understand when they voted for someone who does not care at all about American workers. He only cared about their vote. He knew all along those factories could not come back to the USA because the whole landscape in the automotive industry has shifted toward EVs and fuel efficient hybrids, created using robots and far fewer workers. These workers need new skills and our country needs a leader who understands we are not going back to the 1950s.
44
@SWLibrarian and @ehillesum,
You two are spot on. People like Trump and leaders of the U.A.W. have to realize that wanting to return to the 50s makes as much sense as wanting to bring the horse and carriage back (But wait, carriage drivers need their jobs!).
New skills and training are absolutely needed. The article mentioned that analysts estimated that GM has lost 600 million in revenue because of the strike. Theoretically, that's money that could have gone to retraining. Why can't the unions focus on that?
4
The union might consider consulting with employee representatives of companies like Kodak (photo film, remember that?), Smith Corona (typewriters), RCA Victor (vinyl records and truntables), and many others. All of those people were clinging to the belief that their industries and products would go on forever and their jobs would as well. GM management is trying to bring the company into a viable future. If that means some jobs will no longer exist later, that is reality, but far better than the company going out of existence.
6
@RB
Your logic escapes me. Why not just move all he production to cheap labor countries and sell the products here. That way the billionaires can make more billions and the stock prices can go off the charts. One thing wrong. Who will be able to buy these products flipping burgers?
3
@Steven McCain
Really? Let me explain. Company A with low labor costs sells car for 100 while company B with higher labor costs must sell the same type of product for 150 if it wants to make a profit. What product do you think the consumer will buy??
1
Once again an American issue trashes Canada, or what's left of the Canadian auto industry. Yet in the eyes of Trump, it is always Canada that treats the US unfairly? Give me a break.
6
Rather than give a history lesson, I ask the readers who support organized labor to find a single instance of a company who has remained competitive or an industry leader when unions have directed corporate policy.
6
@Bradley Stein
In Germany a national policy of codetermination in the workplace has worked quite well since WWII. The failure in American labor policy is the determination that it is labor versus management from the level of foreman up, rather than recognizing there is a joint interest in the success of the company.
61
@Bradley Stein
It can't be done because it's never been tried in the U.S. It is therefore reasonable to deduce that all business failures in the U.S. are a consequence of management decision making. They make the decisions without labor input so they own their failures.
12
Kaiser Permanente has a Labor Management Partnership with several unions, including the California Nurses Association. They are a competitive, thriving business that works well with the CNA. They are a competitive and profitable business.
8
Has anyone noticed that the great Dealmaker hasn't said anything about the strike in Detroit? I guess these workers don't matter until he needs their votes.
151
With the sticking point in negotiations being GM production in Mexico, you’d think president Trump would be outside, standing with the union pickets. But no, he’s busy inviting the Turkish president for a visit- perhaps to advise him on eradicating our Kurdish allies. His bus has so many supporters underneath it- it may just run off the road.
17
@Georgy Morgenstern
very certainly noticed !
he'll probably send in the National Guard as in " the good old days "
5
Workers have a right to collective bargaining and employers have to protect their bottom line. My hope is that both sides can come to an amicable agreement, My problem is with The Masters of The Universe who denigrate the union movement. Many white-collar workers forget that most of their benefits were won on the backs of the people working on the lines. In companies like GM management has to have better benefits than the folks sweating on the assembly lines. Once top management beats up on line workers who does middle managers think is next for the sword?
79
It's always us front line staff that take the hit. How much has management made these last years. Plus what's wrong with fair wages' why just the top. We are the ones who work.
75
Seems to a casual observer that insisting on a return of manufacturing from Mexico is not a winning stand. Pay and working conditions are. But, trying to force a return of manufacturing from Mexico seems a bridge too far.
12
The UAW overplayed their hand here, and it's collective selfishness is affecting 1000's more throughout the region. Members have received significant bonus checks every year since the bailout, but yet they're asking for guaranteed raises, hours, plants to stay in operation, lowest insurance premiums (3%) offered to anyone in the private sector. All for doing a job most could learn in one shift. The perfect roadmap towards another taxpayer funded bailout. All while the UAW leadership is under federal indictment for fraud/money laundering/ typical corruption. The non union competition (Honda, Toyota) offers fair compensation packages to factory workers while building higher quality vehicles.
14
@Midwest Josh Of course it has been true throughout this country's history that massive corporations offer non-union workers better compensation packages than union workers-- reality is on your side!
1
Really, do you believe GM has lost $600million so far, after just three weeks? They have over 70 days of car inventory, so tell me Mr. Analyst, how did you come up with the loses? Looking for a little sympathy?
7
So where is "The Art of The Deal" maker, Trump, in all this?
You know, the guy taking credit for the "best economy in the history of histories!" or something like that.
Probably best that he's nowhere to be found in all this. All he'd do is subsidize GM so they can outlast the UAW. Yet as the strike goes on, the damage to all the "feeder" companies that are tributaries to GM, like the failure of Mr. Tlaib's trucking company, or Pridgeon and Clay's manufacturing.
Other Presidents have stepped in to resolve strikes and prevent collapse. Republicans like Trump complained about Obama's bailout of GM, even though it a) saved a MILLION jobs, and b) got paid back every penny, and c) actually made a profit! But that's what REAL Presidents with a sense of responsibility do. Jimmy Carter intervened on the coal strike 40 years ago.
But union breakers, like Reagan, were perfectly willing to put the flying nation at risk firing the PATCO professionals, to export manufacturing just to cost union jobs (remember "Look for the Union label!"?--no more!) and that's how Trump has always thought.
When all the other hoteliers in Las Vegas cut deals with the union representing the housekeepers, the lowest paid workers in the business, Trump held out long after all the others: how DARE people on the margins of poverty want to be paid a little more?
The point is: This President is consistently incapable of managing any and every crisis and needs to be replaced ASAP.
157
Somebody recently reminded me of the Ludlow Massacre of 1914, when, in Colorado, a mining company owned by the Rockefellers, hired private guards, armed with machine guns, to randomly terrorize workers living in tent cities when they were evicted from company-owned sub-standard housing. Miners dug caves under the tents to sleep in at night when the thugs began their random shootings.
Workers on strike were arrested for "vagrancy" and sentenced to work in the mines, for no pay. For the company, workers were serfs, slaves with no rights to be used and abused and discarded, regardless of the 13th Amendment already nearly 50 years old.
It erupted into civil war between the miners and the Colorado National Guard, and many of the miners were immigrants and veterans of foreign wars. Finally, Wilson sent in Federal troops and the miners surrendered. 400 were charged, one convicted (later overturned) but not one thug or company official was ever charged.
I believe this is the bleak future of Trump's, MoscowMitch's, Kevin McCarthy's, Scott Walker's, Sam Brownback's, and Matt Bevin's America.
86
@Dadof2 But let us not forget the lasting legacy of all this:
There are still countless buildings and universities named after Rockefeller. There is basically no mention anywhere of any of the miners who fought.
9
bravo sir.
2
Remember what the trend line was for need to manufacture horse shoes, buggy whips & buggy carriages before 1986? This is the year Henry Ford manufactured the first automobile.
Are we at another point but this time with the combustible engine?
7
@Tom Grimes
As someone noted, one hundred twenty years ago the rich had cars and the poor ad horses. Today the poor have cars and the rich have horses. timelines are a funny thing!
2
@Tom Grimes
quite simply , are you trippin' ?
SUV's and HUGE pickups everywhere
2
I do not know the particulars in this battle but here is my general advice to the strikers.
If GM is truly making a fortune and is in good shape, hold out till you get a reasonable offer.
If GM despite their profits are still in a precarious position, be willing to accept less than what you want but still a reasonable offer.
9
“Counterbalanced” by City’s Hospital system, State Capital, State University system? The last two decades - what’s wrong with that statement? What has Mich been doing last 20/30 years? Rebalanced by government pay checks? fantastic work Michigan leaders.
9
As often as the NYTimes writes about the US plants of German and Japanese car companies, I would expect a reference to the fact that GM is trying to get a deal closer (though still much higher) to what those foreign firms pay in terms of salary and benefits.
7
The issue is not lack of jobs. It is that GM is among a tiny fraction of companies that pay this well. And UAW has in the past been successful at continually improving the package for workers.
10
I'm typically pro-union, and ordinarily I'd side with the workers, but this strike (or rather, some of the demands behind it) seems somewhat ill-advised. I hope they settle soon. Not that I care about their product, if I buy a new car anytime soon it's going to be a Fremont, CA built Tesla.
15
@SB Buy used. It’s cheaper and more environmentally friendly. I never buy a new car.
21
@Paul
I have actually never bought a new car, ever. I've been waiting for years to get a good electric car. I'm a good mechanic but I won't miss oil & transmission fluid changes, timing belts, water pumps, smog tests, etc.
Demand for internal combustion engines, other than maybe to power a generator, is going to be shrinking fast pretty soon I think.
I wonder if the big 3 will really realize this before their competitors eat their lunch. Somehow I doubt it.
105
That is something people easily look over.
But I thought there was supposed to be a massive increase in manufacturing jobs in places like Michigan under Trump. Aren’t there plenty of other jobs that Trump created the workers can go to? The economy is “the best ever” according to the President. At least that’s what he’s saying. This is fake news.
230
@Paul
Increased tariffs won't magically create more manufacturing jobs overnight.
The manufacturing sector has adopted a wait-and-see attitude to determine whether these tariffs will be adhered to for the long-term.
Only then will they invest in the necessary infrastructure to create more jobs.
You base your optimism in rational thought. The problem with Trump’s approach is it isn’t rational. And sometimes it’s emotional. What is lost, or soon will be, is a reliable economic order. It’s gonna take years to get that back, even if Trump is denied another term. Trust is the foundation of trade.