Does Brooks know that there are significant large urban centers in “flyover” country? Has he heard of Chicago? Milwaukee? Kansas City? Minneapolis? St. louis? Memphis? I could go on.
196
Well done, Mr Brooks.
69
Flyover Man (most of my neighbors, and I, too, and a Flyover Woman): Hilary was a crook; Biden and his sons are crooks. So what if Trump is a crook. Nobody is really going to do anything good for me. Hillbilly Elegy was a joke because that kid was one who left. Try talking to some of the kids who stayed and who did not hit some kind of golden train out of here. Talk to the churches here who are apoplectic because in South central Kentucky, we're going to have a Chill Out and Proud Festival on Saturday and are planning protests.
Talk the ones who don't vote because they don't think it matters or who are too busy working two jobs and/or looking for their next fix or who are too high to get up and get their kids to school, and the Democrats want me to pay for THEM and their mistakes? Talk to the 66% who did NOT vote in the last gubernatorial election. They don't have White Pride shirts because they can't afford them and they don't have credit cards to order them. But that white kid who comes to my class, who has never held a job except for working at the marina in the summer (Daddy knows the boss) and is going to community college because Daddy doesn't want to waste a year if he's not going to go to class). He's spoiled, white, uninformed, and proud. I live with these people. Some just are uninformed. Others are racist, homophobic, and think Mayberry was a real place. But yeah. They vote. And mixed in a few people for whom abortion is the biggest deal of all.
87
You all do know that this is a fictional narrative right? That this is a generalization presented to give the Left some insight into what we perceive as the cognitive dissonance of a Trump supporter. You all get that, right? That "urban guys" can and do live in "flyover" states and that these are just purposely stereotypical characters presented just for effect. That Brooks isn't talking specifically about YOU, right?
Whew. Good. Because for a minute there I thought you were all taking this personally and that would just be weird because this is an op-ed piece and Brooks doesn't even know you.
111
Urban Guy and Trump supporter.
27
“Heh heh” doesn’t bring back jobs or pay the bills. Liberals didn’t move your jobs to China or give away American technology in the process. Liberals didn’t bust the unions blah blah blah. The conservative elite will applaud you and cheer you on until it’s time for their children to step on your children’s necks. Excessive greed knows no party.
239
"God, Guns, and Country". Hey, David, exactly which part of that sputtering delusional Republican platform has any relevance to the complicated educational, health, and economic needs of "Flyover America?" You're continuing attempt to find moral equivalence between your Party and the Democrats keeps us all wondering just how well you understand any segment of the American population, coastal or flyover. You're outfoxing Fox.
103
I’m sorry but I am not going to feel badly once again because the kids in the middle are throwing another fit and they’re angry.
How often do we have to appease this area?
I have been listening to this since I was 7 in 1980 when Reagan started using this part of the country to form a base of angry, “forgotten” women and men. If the FO states want to hate on the coasts, fine. We’re used to it. But make no mistake, it is 100% their own fault.
They keep electing GOP who slashes everything from education to healthcare to protections for workers. We used to call them unions which gave the worker a seat at the table. But that was too socialist so now Red States have “right to work” and weak unions and they see their safety, job security and benefits stripped in favor of the owners. The owners love the GOP because they make a fortune. They don’t care if they hire a robot or an illegal purple people eater....it’s whoever is the cheapest. Period.
314
I live in Topeka, KS, flyover city, but I do not relate to your FM. Stereotyping is not helpful.
62
Mr. Brooks, have you ever really talked with a Trump voter?
I have neighbors who still think the Clintons had Vince Foster was murdered and Obama was born in Kenya.
176
Dear “Both Sides” Brooks,
Wouldn’t it be nice if “both sides” were willing to accept facts? Need some examples?
How about the fact that Republican policy since Reagan has never done anything to make the forgotten factory people safer, healthier or wealthier and good old Trump just secured unprecedented tax breaks for the wealthiest of the wealthy? How about the fact that right wing “reporting” on immigration greatly distorts the realities about the threats caused by the immigrant menace? How about the fact that the president has been quite obviously involved in large scale fraud, criminal behavior and acts of public bigotry for decades and he lies reliably just about every time he speaks? Then there’s the fact that the inhabitability of the planet by all humans in all states is in grave danger. How dare the liberal elites insist upon talking about these things. It’s clearly their fault that Trump is popular and not the fault of the 24 hr. blatant misinformation machines that millions of Flyover Men (and women) have running in their homes at all times. Was it those pesky liberals that fought to revoke the FCC’s fairness doctrine and let a constant stream of uncontested partisan propaganda in the guise of news run freely into the homes of our people? Must have been those Democrats who voted to give corporations the same rights as individual Fly Over Men. Darn liberals must have been the ones who killed thousands of flyover men in a decade long baseless war.
200
As always, right on target, Mr. Brooks.
32
Why are TWO men in this opinion piece - Urban Guy and Flyover Man? Any other genders / preferences out there?
35
I'd like to let Flyover Man know that Trump doesn't really give a hoot about you. He's just interested in padding his own overstuffed bank account. If all that gets you up in the morning is making some of your fellow countrymen miserable, I think you need to reassess your life dreams and goals.
103
I have read conservative commentators that wrote about how poor minority families were in their situation because of poor choices, but if it's poor white families it's the liberal's fault. Brooks is a bit oblivious.
150
This completely misses the resentment, nastiness and nilism. But I guess it's easier to think that The Base is "misunderstood".
Don't fall for that. How about the White Supremacy and Authoritarianism behind the whole mess.
Fascism is a real thing.
128
What a shame Mr Brooks enlisted such a pusillanimous urban guy to enter a dialogue with a flyover man whose specious arguments could be refuted easily by anyone not consumed with politically correct guilt.
51
Sorry, but Flyover Guy is mostly the victim of a grossly inadequate education.
104
The hole in FM’s position is that it’s only Dems who care about him. What has Trump or the GOP ever done for them?
52
The women of Flyover Country are not going to vote for a man who cheated on his wife while she was pregnant.
37
Yes there is anger from workers at Democrats, because 25 years ago Democrats decided to become the other party of the rich and stopped fighting for workers.
They passed the Republican NAFTA Bill and helped Republicans open us up to China and other low wage countries (while unions and left activists fought and protested against it) creating OPEN BORDERS for the mega-rich so they could move our factories and other productive capital to China. Media and Democrats took Supply Side Economics on as their economic assumption, despite the fact that it has never worked, ever. The Democrats helped Republicans attack unions, deregulate investment banks and legalize derivatives, cut taxes on the rich, and slash education funding and other investments in their children, while giving bonuses to the same owners of capital that destroyed the economy, and lied to start a War in Iraq.
These are all Republic policies. Democrats were trying to play nice. Then the Republicans pretend they had nothing to do with it, leaving centrist Democrats to defend stupidity.
Meanwhile the same rural Republicans demanded that Walmart be allowed to open a store outside their town so they could import cheap crap from China. Even the small business people shopped at Wall Mart, instead of the other stores on Main Street. They drove themselves out of business and destroyed their own towns.
And they refuse to listen to what Jesus said, preferring to quote Leviticus.
Where does Jesus say "hate gays and love war?"
51
This is the best thing I've ever read from David Brooks. Thank you.
21
Sadly, it is even beyond the FM and UG posits on why Trump voters stay loyal to him. Trump knows the social and the cultural personality of his loyal to Hell and back, supporters. Trump, based on his words, actions and deeds, appears we can agree, to be stunningly void of social and cultural morality. AND Trump's "followers", it appears, are hopelessly devoid of that part of MORAL COMPASS that rightly forbids the judgment of others based on race, creed, religion and national origin. The Trump "followers" gleefully took a one-way, non-refundable flight with Trump, when it was "delightfully" and "refreshingly" clear that Donald J. Trump was "one of them." Them, are they who have a need to believe: that black people are inherently lazy, educated white people choose to be oblivious to the needs and very existence, Mexicans are thugs and somehow innately illegal human beings, refugees and asylum seekers are imposters, fraudsters, shameless beggars and unworthy seekers of compassion, Muslims are a clear and present danger and existential threat, Jews are a threat to the white man's position at the head of the class in all things monetary and immigrants (their real Trump drug) are people who will change the color of America's racial landscape from its desirable Norway white hue to some unthinkable, unimaginable, UNORDAINED (Evangelicals?) and forever unacceptable, shade of fecal brown. Yes THEY and their bigoted beliefs and values, will be the undoing and downfall of America.
31
Trump people don't seem to realize or recall what they did to the democrats during the Obama years, the I-hate-you because you-hate-me equation. It's sick all around and all driven by anonymous money and greed, in both camps.
17
Elisabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders both wholeheartedly address the problems of your Flyover Man -- and have done so for decades. But you-all on the NYT op ed page insist they're unelectable.
76
Well there’s an ugly quid-pro-quo
4
Flyover Man’s wife would probably dispute that Flyover Man knew Trump was a snake all along. She wonders why Flyover Man kept calling Hillary the snake during the election.
24
To Flyover Man:
What part of "making a deal with the Devil" ever makes you think you're going to come out ahead? I get the desperation of your original decision but deep down you knew where it leads didn't you? Where it always ends up. Nobody ever wins, save the Devil.
In fact, your pain gets magnified to a new state you couldn't even conceive at the time of your decision. That's the price you actually pay. As humans we all know this. There are endless myths, religious and otherwise, cautionary tales learned as children that educate you on this basic FACT. So you never, ever, make a deal with old Scratch.
The saving grace in this situation is that no contract has been signed. To 'err is human they say. There's nothing wrong in this. But to stubbornly refuse to appreciate your error, or worse still, to appreciate what you have done yet keep to it anyway, is simply childish and stupid.
To learn from your mistakes and alter your course is to put yourself back on the path towards wisdom. You may not know the way forward, but do you really want to continue on that path to hell? Really? Then you go there alone, 'cause I am outta here!
John~ (Urban Guy)
American Net'Zen
21
Yes, we know David. This has been written about countless times. You forgot about the racists who fill his stadiums. Those people won't be swayed either. But good news.Eliabeth Warren is reaching out to those people. She has a plan for everyone.
30
Puleeeseee!!!
This lecture on middle america values is pure fantasy concocted by one of the most elite members of the ruling class.
55
Mr. Brooks, you captured the sentiment pretty well. As a Flyover Man, although not a Trump supporter, we had Mrs. Clinton calling us names - remember clinging to the Bible and guns thing? - and never coming to actually talk to us instead of talking about us. There are many people in flyover States that are extremely literate, produce more than ink filled pages, and make more money than most Urban Men (and women) and are living wonderful lives. When any person is categorized or pigeon-holed it makes it far easier to denigrate them as a group. If you (or I) said all Muslims are terrorists the vilification would begin immediately after pressing the Enter button. Flyover People are just that.
If you want to blame someone for Trump just start with Mrs. Clinton. She arrogantly assumed that all she needed to do was ‘capture’ the correct states and the election was over. That kind of elitist mentality brought Mr. Trump into office. Now all of us are stuck with him. He’s all of the worst things you’ve said he is and probably more. I know he’s a bombastic clown, but he doesn’t treat Flyover People like morons that are talked down to as if all have a third grade education.
Then there’s the issue of the Electoral College that UM people hate. It’s in the Constitution for a reason - to create a more level playing field for 2/3 of the States that are home to Flyover People. UM people see it has a hinderance and outdated. There’s infinitely more to discuss but only 1500 characters.
22
Brooks gets close and bobbles. Moderate Democrat’s lost the midsection, not the ‘radicals’. Here how the negotiation works with Republicans.
Democrat “We would like to propose a bill to establish heaven on earth.”
Republican “The American people will not settle for less than the very depths of hell.”
Democrat “We instantly offer to compromise on the third circle of the infernal regions and we will put our name on it to demonstrate our commitment to good governance.”
Warren and Sanders are the Democratic Party. The moderates are a bunch of office seekers with no discernible principles.
2
Fascism provides an easy to buy narrative for middle class Americans who have seen their economic security and social status as WASPs seemingly vanish.
Fascism promises a return to a mythic past that was tragically stolen by immigrants, academic elites, gays, undeserving minorities and non-Christians.
They fuel a sense of aggrievement among whites that appears to be all to real. The number of “nones” (those who profess no religion) grows. Immigrants fleeing violent gang crime, political oppression, and climate change impacts on agriculture are seen as invading hordes coming to take the few jobs that remain. The opioid crisis kills more people then traffic accidents and gays seemingly want to destroy institutions of marriage and actually be seen as equal human beings,
There is a growing recognition that systemic racism against Blacks moved them from outright slavery to a cynical peonage held in place by overt and covert segregation and denial of equal rights. How does that hold with whites who see Blacks seeking long overdue social and economic equality as seeking special treatment?
Republican policies since Reagan spurred off offshoring of jobs, a corporate welfare state, racism and a massive upward redistribution of wealth to the 1%.
Clinton Democrats thought that a meritocracy of entrepreneurs and programmers would save middle America. How did that work out?
F.M. and his ilk are now ripe to buy into the conspiracy of Hillary and her Deep State removing Trump.
11
Donald Trump won the votes of 63 million Americans including 58% of thr white voting majority made up 62 % of white men and 54% of white women.
Trump didn't run a covert stealthy subtle campaign. Every American knew who Donald Trump was and was not and voted accordingly.
America has the President it deserves and has earned for its two original sinful crimes aka black African enslavement and brown First nations colonization and conquest.
No fair just moral objective God could or would ever bless America. America is not the home of the free and home of the brave.
9
We are all in this together. The world has changed for FM but it has also changed for me and all Americans, coastal elites and flyovers all together.
Getting to common ground on issues through reading/facts appears to be impossible now. How do we convey that the entire country is struggling with huge changes in American life, not just FM?
The Democrat-led House has acted, has passed legislation, that supports FM and all Americans. How can this positive action be turned into a message that FM can see and hear, one that supports his identity and pride?
https://www.vox.com/2019/9/19/20856948/house-democrats-prescription-drug-prices
and many more. Democrats have always been, and always will be, the best friend of the American working man and woman.
17
This is what some people call a straw-man argument.
17
I live in flyover country and drive a pickup truck. I lobstered for nearly 30 years, have raised sheep and other animals, and I care much for the land and water. I’m conservative on many issues while I remain liberal on human rights and reproductive choice. Today, I wonder what Trump and his acolytes want to do to the nation’s ground water quality while I also think that those in charge of the Flint water supply should be indicted for malfeasance. David, we are just as complicated out in flyover country as any diverse neighborhood you might wander through. The one thing that makes us really different is that we have a truck you can borrow if you need a refrigerator moved or a yard of manure delivered.
62
David, you're being as " honest " as trump.
you don't talk about how republicans have been selling flyover man a false bill of goods for years, tax cuts for the rich, benefit cuts and funding cuts to infrastructure etc. for flyover man.
constantly playing to FM's fears to get his votes, and selling him out again and again. Conning him into believing the valuable social programs Dems promote are against his interest, and getting him to vote against his interest.
That's why they don't trust politicians, cause they vote solid red and get shafted again and again. At this point they can't admit they were wrong and vote with the dems, they've built their whole identities around hating the libs. So that angers them more. The republicans use their votes and toss them in the waste bin. So they are completely jaded and angry, ripe for a cruel and rude con man like trump, who is also not doing a darn thing for them, as he enriches his cronies and family.
They aren't jaded and angry cause the dems " don't understand them ", they are that way because the republicans swindle them again and again.
The piece is accurate in one way, Flyover Man is so brainwashed by fox and Rush and the like that they are mostly clueless as to why they are really angry, and what would make things better.
50
Brooks gives us about 50 shades of Republican indignation here, but very little of anything else.
So I'm supposed to let Trump trash the country and the Constitution because conservatives are insulted the world now sees them for the bigots they are?
Right.
Sorry, but the cat's out of the bag.
We see Trump for what he is.
Trump supporters don't care what he is - that's the difference.
Voting for someone because he insults people you don't like is the reasoning of fools.
And if that insults Trump voters, so be it.
Vote Democratic in 2020.
Every office, every seat.
54
I am surrounded by versions ofin flyover country (which by the way, I think is insulting). The Trump supporters around me are exactly as you describe right up until the last couple of paragraphs. I don't think they think Trump is the captain , but he's the only thing out there that seems to hold their interest in his heart. That's how they see it, I don't think that they are shows that they are stupid enough to be ruled by this man but they really don't see any other alternatives.
11
I think you are misjudging the Trump supporters. He has a core of supporters that are racist (@30% of the U.S. population). To them Trump is the last, best hope to retain the dominance of heterosexual white men. They will never abandon him, for there is no one who could replace his fierce racist, misogynistic, homophobic view of the world. I have met Trump-supporting women who believe that women should return to the kitchen and serve their husbands. About 10% of his supporters were angry with Washington, but they are becoming disappointed with Trump because he has proven that he is the swamp monster himself and has rerouted the swamp into his own pockets. What has happened over the last weeks is proof of that. They know that he couldn't care less about them; they know that he rigged the economy for his own benefit. That 10% is beginning to crack and soften.
25
Some will say "it's the market stupid." When the market tanks so will Trump.
3
Two reasons:
1. Frightened desperate people do stupid things, including sticking with previous mistakes.
2. Trump is and does everything that they themselves want to do and be.
I would here include an insulting phrase describing Trump voters, but The Times, bless its heart, won't allow it.
9
Sorry, but no.
One thing nobody seems to ask is, why are the only "voices" for these "flyover" people regressive jerks like Trump, or incurious and incompetent but well-connected children of former presidents like "W", or B-movie actors who impersonate a president?
If you have a case that you've been overlooked by the coastal elite, why is the party that supposedly represents you full of extremist characters who peddle conspiracy theories, promote distrust of expertise, & offer failed trickle-down economic ideas which just happen to be most beneficial to their corporate base?!
Even if the case can be made that the Democratic party has failed you, isn't it up to you to make good choices in response? So many Trump supporters I encounter resent "the elite", with their supposed disdain for ignorant "regular" folks; why then, is the response to throw a tantrum and vote for a succession of increasingly more unqualified & inept ELITISTS who have no actual interest in you apart from shameless pandering for your vote? Hey regular folks (like me); if you're the "real" America and you've got "common" sense the elite apparently lack, why not put forth a candidate who embodies what you're looking for?
Let me guess: your answer is, there IS no one who'll stand up for us. Therefore, we'll consistently vote for the lesser of all candidates in virtually every election. That'll show 'em.
10
I am a Texan and honestly, Donald Trump represented a need to remind people that we exist and still matter. I kinda wanted him to blow or at least shake things up. The fact that he drove everyone crazy was part of the fun. Was he doing illegal things?--yeah. As a soldier, I did have issues with that. Did he hire the best people?--Okay, no. He told us that he was the only person who could solve our problems--has he done this-no. Do I believe that he uses the government as his own piggy bank--yes.
Here is the problem. Do I believe that all politicians commit illegal acts--yes. Most are smarter but yes.
Do I believe that the best people are ever in the government--no, not really. At least not people that think about me.
Did I believe that Trump could solve all my problems or that he actually cared--not really but then again, neither does anyone else.
Do I believe that all politicians use the government to line their own pockets--yes.
Everyone jumps up and down about Trump but the issue is one of degrees not actual conduct. That is why it is easy to believe that Joe Biden is corrupt--not because of the evidence or fact checkers but because he is a politician.
Do we believe that the media has a favorite--yes. Corrupt or fake--no. Bias--definitely.
Has Trump delivered on his promises-no. But then again, neither has any politician.
Can I continue to support Trump if he is corrupt, self-dealing, and a liar? Whats the diff?
15
Mr. Brooks is imparting too much rationality into the thought process of this supposed "Flyover Man." German theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer identified a simpler explanation in an essay written from his prison cell in 1942:
"[It] is not so much that stupidity is a congenital defect but that, under certain circumstances, people are made stupid or they allow this to happen to them. Upon closer observation, it becomes apparent that every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. . . . The power of the one needs the stupidity of the other.
"The process at work here is not that particular human capacities, for instance, the intellect, suddenly atrophy or fail. Instead, it seems that under the overwhelming impact of rising power, humans are deprived of their inner independence and, more or less consciously, give up establishing an autonomous position toward the emerging circumstances.
"The fact that the stupid person is often stubborn must not blind us to the fact that he is not independent. In conversation with him, one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with him as a person, but with slogans, catchwords, and the like that have taken possession of him. He is under a spell, blinded, misused, and abused in his very being. Having thus become a mindless tool, the stupid person will also be capable of any evil and at the same time incapable of seeing that it is evil."
15
David, you forgot to mention that Trump supporters are brainwashed. Every once in a while I tune in to Fox News just to see how they’re reporting Trump’s latest transgression and every time, I hear spin and lies and defense of Trump. If you only get your news from Fox, you’re going to stick with Trump and you’re going to believe that the Democrats are sore losers who haven’t gotten over the 2016 election and will find any excuse to investigate Trump.
24
This "dialog" is from 2015/16. It's covered in cobwebs. If Flyover Man has such a terrible life right now, who should he (and she) blame? David Brooks writes: "You think that because you have the kind of jobs that allow you to follow Twitter all day. I don’t have that luxury." This is utter nonsense. That is all trump supporters do is look at Twitter. The type of trump supporter depicted in the photo of this article has voted against his own interests since way before trump. That's where the anger and the frustration comes from. They're stupid with vindictiveness. trump is their "pit bull." I've heard it many times. They have no other reason for still supporting trump other than the fact that it feels good and they look at alternatives as ugly caricatures. Flyover Man wouldn't know a democratic society under siege if it took away his vote. Which is exactly what is happening. They are melting as a voting block. They don't have a chance against the numbers of anti-trump voters in 2020. Sadly, when this is all over, they will continue to lose. And, this time, it will be their own fault. Not the immigrants, not Silicon Valley, not globalism, not the Commies, not the tree huggers, not Hillary or Obama or California or New York or Yale or Harvard or Wall Street or the snowflakes. It will be their own fault.
17
The difference is one party seeks help Flyover Man by moving forward, the other party has covinced him it's best to move backward.
History only moves in one direction.
11
I would add this. My mother only watches Fox News. She voted for Trump because she believed Hilary was a crook and should be in prison. There was no way to reason with her.
20
Stop with the “ he was the only one who saw us” bit. No one is that willfully gullible. If you knew he was a snake, you knew he couldn’t be trusted, and that he’d just as soon use you for his own personal gain.
11
You would think by now that people would know that making a deal with the devil always ends badly.
14
Why do Trump voters stick with him? Either it's because they are making money from his presidency or they like how he behaves. Hate flames hate.
15
Trump is a monkey bashing the I Phone of democracy on a jagged rock. All of us face hardship in life, some of us try to move on, some of us take revenge on the world. Trump is their avenging angel. They do not care about America, they care about the Citizen Romanus Am I. Freud talked about this in Civilization and Its Discontents. They are enemies of civilization and of themselves and of other Americans. I don't feel sorry for them, because they are too emotionally stunted to appreciate empathy and they are big boys and girls and let themselves be lied to by Clinton and Bush and all.
They are waging a holy war on America through Trump.
If they want America to be more like Russia, then go to Russia and China and go live in a ruined country rather than ruin us and the US
7
You lost me at..
"But he was the only one who saw us."
He was the only one who PRETENDED to see them.
And they are too ignorant/gullible to see that.
23
" Children out of wedlock. Young men with no dad when they’re young and no wife in their life when they’re grown."
Sounds more like a C&W tune than "cultural liberalism".
10
Are posters aware Mr. Flyover is the product of a GOP water carrier and is not a real person?
Just asking
8
Why Trump Voters Stick With Him?
Racism & fear (of white loss). They hide this true reason behind an ever shifting smokescreen of lies and blind-alleys of distraction. Don't be confused or dissuaded, racism plain & simple is at the heart of his slavish following.
12
I do not believe Mr. Brooks actually spoke to a Trump supporter when writing this article. It sounds more like David Brooks' idea of what Trump supporters think which is just as patronizing as the liberal elite condescension he deplores. I suggest he turn his column over to a Trump supporter for their own opinion in their own words (as Maureen Dowd has done with her brother on occasion) or debate a real live Trump supporter.
18
Mr. Brooks, always looking to blame Trump and the GOP on the liberals and the people who buy the paper you work for. No , Trump supporters by and large aren't " deep thinkers or introspective as you describe or feeling neglected or misrepresented by the liberal elites and media but rather racist, xenophobes who only want to make America white again. Your cover ups and excuses for Trump ,the GOP and his supporters are as bad or worse than anything Trump says or does.
9
Why would voters stick with a racist and misogynist? Is this a trick question Mr. Brooks? The answer is right there staring us in the face but we refuse to see it. Does his base stick with him because of his Dealmaking Skills? Do they stick with him because he saved the auto plants from closing? Maybe they stay with him because they wanted their soybeans to rot in the silos. Lastly, maybe the thought of The Wall never built or never paid for by Mexico is why they drink Trump Kool-Aid? Brooks, it is time to call balls and strikes are they truly are..Why do Trump voters stick with him? The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.
11
Hi there from Milwaukee. Wisconsin is flyover country for many, Sure we have Waukesha county which is so red, and Milwaukee and Dane counties which are blue. Then we have the most socialist organization, called the Packers. David , your dichotomy is too simple. You really have to get out and talk to people instead of assuming what you think people think. You really do not know, just as I do not know what it is like living in the DC area.
16
The game is rigged in Flyover Man’s favor and he’s still crying. Frankly, I’m sick of Trump and Flyover Man.
21
An imagined conversation with Flyover Man: "We do care about your problems but this is more than about politics. This is about what it means to live in a society, what it means to be human in our civilization. Stop using your inferiority complex to handcuff a nation, a nation which prior to Trump, seemed to believe in the Constitution, science, and plain old common sense. Love, Urban Woman who is truly sick of coddling your fragile egos at the expense of our sanity and the stability of our planet."
11
It’s real simple.
The Democrats walked away from white working class voters.
These voters feel that their culture and way of life is being attacked and replaced.
So at the point where they feel attacked and not represented...
In walks Trump.
And now the Democratic Party still hasn’t included the white working class and Republicans are more concerned with business and the rich, so where are they to go?
So yeah, who cares what Trump does.
They are being attacked and have no one to go to.
Trump is still on their side.
They will stick with him no matter what.
Trump wants Ukraine to help him dirt on Biden???
Who cares! Our way of life is being attacked!
So that’s it. Rightly or wrongly, nothing that hard to understand.
1003
@Jane
Except that there is a perfectly decent person who cares about the white working class and everyone else also: Bernie Sanders. By the way, when we traveled in rural Iowa and rural Illinois in 2016, obviously prospering farms invariably had Trump signs. I don't think we saw one Clinton sign on a farm. (Granted, some farmers are indeed Democrats, but I get the impression that they don't want the Trump supporters to know it.)
151
@Jane
You're right, Jane. It's not hard to understand. The etiology of the problem is that we are now in a post-Industrial economy, and digital makes job dislocation more than myriad.
In 2016, Mrs. Clinton had nothing. Trump offered financial manipulation and fossil fuels to keep the old economy going. Alas, that is stopgap, and at the same time hastens the end of the world.
As a society, we need a new wave of life. Elizabeth Warren fashioning an attenuated version of the Green New Deal may not be perfect. But it's a lot better than being on the road to ruin.
352
@Jane
It helps to know a bit of history. The Democratic Party has always been the supporter of the "common good". My first vote was for Eisenhower before i started educating myself. Never again for a Republican,
That's why i never paid attention to Reagan, W, and others.The Republican Party has always been the supporter of capitalism without rules, the dream that anyone can make more money than he needs in America . Fake.
When the world and economies change, inevitably, its beyond the control of government UNESS THEY CHANGE THEIR POLICIES AND ADAPT. It doesn't help to whine, even if one feels like doing so. To the barricades with the many talented Democrats waiting for your vote.
408
What has Trump done, or attempted to do, to help the serious problems facing “ flyover” man?
12
Insightful read for me as a person watching and scratching my head from afar (Sweden). It is almost impossible for most of us in the rest of the world to get to grips with how you could elect Trump if it were not for what has become so obvious. The disgust that so many americans appear to feel for your politicians. Sadly the situation in Sweden (and many other northern european countries) is approaching that what made it possible for the populist Trump to get to power. We are facing an election where the second largest party is a populist right wing xenophobic party with it's roots in the swedish neo nazi movement. A party that is populated by mostly uneducated and scared people who will vote for change. Any change, no matter what the results will be.
12
This gets it right: all they do is blame, blame, blame.
It’s pathetic and ruining us.
I’m living in China now and the Nationalists here similarly only spew a line of blame to anything that resembles a legitimate argument based on reality (“big picture” or otherwise).
This may be about what his base is going through but it is their sources of information (maybe “no time to watch twitter” but plenty of time to shoot-up Fox and Brietbart and Limbaugh and InfoWars and any other pizza parlor conspiracy mill that they seem to have an addiction to even bigger than the opioids or smuggled-in-stuff from their Mexican suppliers — that they “blame” all the while being so intent on walling off—) which have perpetrated this assault on our System. As in China, the fallback of these believers is onto a “strongman” rather than on collectively addressing — if they can even “find” legitimate sources of information— the bleeding that their thousand cuts are doing to the whole.
Any explanation for any position is possible in this age. It is up to those who are committed to preserving the system by forcing adherence to truths and decency and, yes, that dastardly Constitution, to call out these blamers....every day and through every blame.
6
Urban Guy should be asking Flyover Man what the Trump administration has specifically done to make life better for Flyover Man.
12
Like a lot of columns in the Times, this one perpetuates the unfounded narrative, beloved by the Times, that most of Trump’s supporters are blue collar, rural types. The voting numbers never really illustrated that. Most of the folks that voted for him were wealthy white people. Why not choose to focus on them rather than perpetuate this tired “ignored white working class” narrative? At this point, it just seems lazy.
25
Sorry, David, but I think you give WAAAAAY to much credit to Flyover Guy. I imagine most of his answers would be variations of: "But I like what I see on Fox News".
10
Ah....David, when they say 'you don't understand us' they mean, ' this is about race but we can't SAY that, don't you understand?' You can fantasize about job loss and coastal elites - none of that is the driver of Trump's support. He's a bigot, They want a bigot in power to put them all back in charge. This is about race.
11
I am bemused by your characterization of Flyover Man as the typical Republican and Urban Guy as his clueless inquisitor. Are you, an urban guy, not a typical Republican? Are there not many others who live on the coasts, who are well-heeled and well-educated, and who don't work with their hands? They're not all liberals! What is the Urban Guy's investment in all this, Trump that drives his support for Trump and his associates? Surely it's not self-pity or victimhood that drives them.
4
Word for word this is exactly what the people who paid Trump thousands of dollars to attend Trump University said!
As someone who grew up in the "flyover country" that David Brooks arrogantly pretends to channel, I can tell you that this insulting piece of writing is false.
Right now, it is not clear that anyone but racists and xenophobes still support Trump. Please stop insulting "flyover country", Mr. Brooks, since as you know Trump's support in the midwest is falling fast.
What an obnoxious article that proves that the real arrogant easterners are Republicans who laugh at the Trump voters who keep them rich at their own expense.
14
David, this really is the key question:"Why do people vote for Trump?"
There is the "basket of deplorables" and they have nowhere to go.They will not be deterred by Trump's crimes.They have not heard that China has 18 high speed trains covering more than a thousand of miles----the US has none. The NYT reports on child pornography being rampant in this country while still people are killing themselves with opioids.
This country is sick! Very sick.
Let's just say: Americans are voting for Trump because they are sick.
Too simple? Think again.
6
Keep their mouths shut? Wow, you really are in the Beltway. Out here on Long Island, hardly flyover country, Trump supporters are extremely vocal and it’s because they finally have license to spew their hate. They hate liberals. They have feasted on the Australian owned Fox News for a generation and can now regurgitate it on the rest of us. I’m the quiet one now, because you can’t reason with them. How is Obamacare bad for flyover man? How is moving humans out of coal mines bad for flyover man, long term? How is assuming we are killing the environment (I say assuming just to acknowledge their assertion that science doesn’t exist), bad for flyover man? Is recycling that hard? When I tell flyover man Democrats want secure borders and don’t want to take away his rifles, he calls me a liar. When you have been indoctrinated into victim hood, which is what Fox News and the GOP has accomplished, you take everything as a personal attack and reason goes out the window.
22
David Brooks again shows his lack of awareness and incomprehension of who and what the Republican Party consists of. Today's column is just another fairy tale of the supposedly pure, reasonable and (not) crazed, indoctrinated, authoritarian worshiping Republican base. From 2014, by DB:
"The big Republican accomplishment is that they have detoxified their brand. Four years ago they seemed scary and extreme to a lot of people. They no longer seem that way."
3
I wonder if they would still support him if they were ever given the truth in a way they could understand it. I'm not saying Trump supporters are stupid, far from it but it seems to me they have been given some data and facts that are just plain and simple not true.
I have to wonder if they knew the truth about climate change, immigration, we have embraced socialism with open arms and that, as Stephen Pinker says in Enlightenment Now, "things ain't so bad."
1
I greatly enjoyed this parody column of a typical David Brooks article, where he reshapes each and every Republican misstep as the responsibility of liberal straw men through the sheer power if his own imagination. Bravo!
12
Trump supporters either stick with this clearly unfit person to hold this nation's highest office because they are either profoundly ignorant and simply know no better, or they aren't as patriotic as they believe and are willing to let it all burn for a disingenuous tax cut and judges who'll apply their intellects twisted by right-wing ideology to return this nation to the past. The Republican Party is the biggest threat to this country since the Cold War.
9
Please tell me what Trump has done for you besides talk. He has tried to take away your health care, he has ended programs to feed the elderly and most recently children. He has started a trade war thats destroying the farmers. He has lied and lied and lied to you. Please tell me how he has changed your life for the better.
14
You have GOT to be kidding me. That's what passes as a meaningful exchange? Flyover guy is. Not. Even. Listening.
He is still thinking small, me me me and my little narrow minded problems. Country's going down the toilet with Trump and the Gang but if you don't cater to me me me in exactly the way that suits narrow minded me like right NOW, I could care less if we become a rogue authoritarian nation, whatever that even is. See, I don't even care enough to stay informed. THAT should stoke those libs which is so much cooler that COOL /s.
5
It’s nihilism pure and simple that motivates the Trump supporter.
2
Hey Mr Brooks.
You're the writers - who created and enriched conservative party called GOP. It's your job as a person who made money out of it, enriched both sides and also as an American - to teach them what is right and what is wrong.
Go do it..
5
Tell me UG, what law did he break? Here, the Vice President demands that a head of state of a foreign government fire one of his ministers to protect his son from corruption charges. When one administration insults the honor, dignity, and sovereignty of another, the new administration must make amends. Here the new President of Ukraine asked for assistance in rooting out this corruption in his own country, and the President complied. How is that against the law. But UG, you sang a whole 'nother song after Bill Clinton committed perjury as President, a "High Crime" within the meaning of the impeachment statute. Face it UG; you have perverted our democracy!
1
I don't often agree with David Brooks. This time he nails it.
Sorry FM,I have bad news for you.Trump is not going to fix your problems.As a matter of fact,I am quite sure he's going to make them worse.But I do have a suggestion for you;Don't vote against you own self interest.It never works
4
Mr. Brooks skirts the issue of race.
The tattooed leg in the image is white. May we assume his flyover man is white? But despite this man's contempt for Ivy League elites Brooks puts words like "passing nonsense" and assertions that "blue cultural privilege is strangulating" into his mouth. Seriously? Where is the torrent of epithets for other races, or LGBTQ people, or women, or anyone who defends them that flows on the myriad pro-Trump websites and comment pages like a raging river?
11
"Let’s face it: Bashing Trump is the media’s business model. That’s what drives eyeballs and profit."
Profile of NY Times reader
"Donald Trump remains the key area of focus for NY Times readers, who are 226% more likely than the average person to search for “trump” and 116% more likely to search for “trump news.” The Times’ investment in covering Trump appears to be paying off: in spite of the president’s vocal disdain for the publication, their paid subscriptions have actually risen since the election."
https://www.hitwise.com/en/articles/ny-times/
2
The takeaway from this pieces is that Brooks absolutely, positively, should go into play-writing or any other profession than involves a modicum of skill with dialogue.
4
So, Flyover Man, what exactly has Trump done for YOU lately? Have you seen your income go up, your insurance coverage and cost improve, or your tax refund grow dramatically (as it did for the 1%)? When did Hillary get locked up? The big, beautiful wall Mexico was going to pay for built? And how about that trade war with China? How’s it going out there in the heartland with rotting surplus soybeans and striking auto workers at GM? Oh, and did you hear that agricultural companies are actually going to be paying migrant farm workers LESS money? Yep, thanks to the Donald. Wonder who’s going to pick those crops once those illegals get sent back over the border?
Finally, Flyover Mama, working two jobs while supporting your kids, how are you going to explain to your children why the President uses words every day that they’d get into trouble for saying? Why is he calling people nasty, dirty, rapists, or traitors? And just how do you prepare your kids to shoot their Democratic classmates when President Trump calls for Civil War?
7
I stumped for Obama in Altoona, PA in 2012. It is one massive warehouse where Walmart employees toil in artificial light stacking boxes all day. There are a dozen or so Mexican restaurants where families can go out once a week because they are cheap and have a lot more atmosphere then a McDonalds.
Why didn’t Mr. Brooks just have a real conversation with a real person and get out of his white DC bubble and relay something real? Because, apparently he is either too afraid or too lazy to do the actual footwork required to spend a week trying to build rapport with someone barely scraping together a living in an environment neither challenging and just a bit better than relaxing in a grave.
In other words, a really offensive Op-Ed, Mr. Brooks.
10
Dear Flyover Man,
I'll listen to your problems when you stop whining about Big Government while my state subsidizes yours. When you acknowledge the hypocrisy that underscores your whole lifestyle. Don't like "socialism"? Then don't use roads you didn't build all by yourself, don't collect your Social Security check (you will get much more than you put in in contributions), opt-out of Medicare, etc. Will you do this? My guess is no, because just like your "captain", you talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
14
1000%. Spot. On.
1
It's hilarious that Brooks — who is basically a monocle that's achieved sentience — projects himself as a Trump-voter whisperer; it's somewhat less hilarious when he blends together his own retrograde views and puts them in the mouths of Trump voters like some sort of a ghoulish puppet show. (I've lived among enough red-staters to know that the ones who cared about children born out of wedlock can be found in the local cemetery.) I personally believe the Times has aired enough of Trump voters' views, but if it's compelled to share more, it should let them say their own words— not be paraded on marionette strings by a columnist with a looming deadline and lack of ideas.
8
FC is no different from potus followers elsewhere--where ignorance is bliss,tis folly to be wise. Those who don't put the Constitution above party or potus, are nothing more than cowards. As Thomas Paine wrote: "The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country."
1
I wonder if any of this were a dominant conversation. I see this being split into factional and universal components.
1. Factional: Trump supports guns, lower taxes for the wealthy, outlawing all abortions, preferred partisan judicial nominees, and my preferred partisan tribe (and whites--cut immigration for all others)
2. Universal: Love seeing him stick it to the Dems, hate Nancy Pelosi, so what if he lies, so what if he is a malignant narcissist, so what if he embodies hate and chaos, curb illegal immigration (PS I love legal immigrants)
Feel free to add to the lists. I do not hear many people openly talking like Mr. Brooks' hypothetical flyover man on the street (very likely not a woman)--but I am not embedded in any such stereotypical community.
Maybe "Hillbilly Elegy" is flawed; so are a lot of other over-generalizations. Ivy leaguers (ie. liberal elites) might invoke suspicion in quite a number of coastal locations.
2
I used to care about those folks who support Trump, mainly because of their problems. No more.
They’ve bought into the “I’m a Victim” club...the fastest growing club in America. It’s become so easy , if you listen to Trump, to blame the “others”, those who are “different”. In the Victim Club, one doesn’t have to take responsibility for anything...it’s not your fault. Ahhh, that soothing, comforting blanket of victimhood.
I used to care about these types. Now I feel only contempt.
Oh, I was born and raised deep in Flyover country.
8
... and Flyover Man's self-defeating, nihilistic spitefulness is going to make me care about his immiseration how exactly?
6
Jane, and others who feel deserted, listen up, please. All the “poor me” verbiage and the pining for help/special consideration sounds incredibly selfish when stacked up against stories of children being assaulted and caged, veterans dying by their own hands, soldiers living off food stamps. And if you think somehow that the Trump family and his Cabinet aren’t part of the elitist class you bemoan, then you need to do the hard work of learning about current events. The Fox alt-truth and Fundy folks have clouded your reason. Educate yourselves and learn how you can better yourselves. This will involve leaving the MAGA cult.
5
UG: If a liberal president used his power to coerce foreign countries to help him throw elections, would you put up with it?
FM: No, of course not.
UG: Ok, then stop putting your petty grievances about “cultural elites” ahead of the future of this country.
There, David, fixed it for you.
6
The gleeful cruelty of this administration, the separation of refugee children from their parents, the deportation of people to their death, and the rampant and flagrant corruption, will not be excused by any self-pitying claims that you've been ignored by elites.
3
What if Truth is fluid and you are free to believe whatever you need to to get through your life as it is without much chance of things getting better and hoping it won’t get worse. You can go to a Trump Rally for free and meet people like you even if they all are not like you! Donald Trump is the ability to give the rest of the USA the finger without being arrested. They go home and show up for work the next day. My dad did it his whole life and died. He was a Democrat. I don’t support DJT even a little but he does have the ability to give a lot of people the ability to express what they really feel. When you live that - no political solution is about you, it is what you do. I don’t like it! We need a way to fix it!
2
"I see him as my captain. He deserves my loyalty, thick and thin."
And he will never give you his loyalty. It's a scam, like his whole life. He uses people like you for his personal gains & then discards them when they - you - are of no further use to his gain.
As for your fears of abandonment, perhaps you should look at the Party and the policies you have supported for decades who gave lip service to helping you. You supported the Party who said any need for help and assistance was Socialism and "getting free stuff;" who believed "government IS the problem;" who believed defunding governments through tax cuts leaving state education selling pencils in a cup for funding and defunded infrastructure; the Party who supported the idea of shipping your jobs to China was best for the American economy and investors while you shopped at Walmart selling you the goods you used to manufacture; the Party who looked for scapegoats for you complaints and found immigrants were the perfect foil for your resentment; and so on.
You helped create this mess & now you are looking for someone else to blame. You made your own bed and now you have to sleep in it & you don't like it and refuse the help offered as Socialism.
You can't have it both ways.
3
Trump supporters stick with Trump largely from the Trumpian mindset that to admit to be wrong is to be a major wuss. Besides, Trump is doing exactly what they wanted and elected him to do: drive liberals crazy. So mission accomplished.
3
David's very clear piece misses out one fundamental and overriding issue - Race.
Non-agricultural 'fly-over' issues are largely due to people being in the 'wrong place' - serving shuttered industries - leaving them stressed and un-anchored.
In previous times people would have upped sticks and moved to where work was available. But, today they are locked in place by their property. There's no market for a house in a rusted out town, and if you could sell it wouldn't give you enough cashout to move anywhere decent.
You are stuck, frustrated and angry and more than willing to turn to a demagogue who promises you a herd of unicorns to pull your wagon out of the mire, and put the blame on the brown man.
The natural solution would be to provide long term tax credits and federal low-interest long-term bridge-loans to assist in moving. We can easily afford to do this - interest is at an all time low if we won't raise a fraction on corporate tax.
So, why will this not happen? Ever?
Because of race. The benefit would accrue to black and brown people as much as white, and the MAGA=MAWA fly-overs would rather suffer than give a non-white a helping hand.
Sad, but that's what MAWA means.
6
Dramatic and true in a "Wonderful Life" kind of way. But it's a dialog that is scripted for the Twentieth Century, not 2019. Why? It ignores recent historic changes.
It ignores the role of Fox News; it ignores the role of Conservatives, beginning with Newt Gingrich and crossing the blood-brain barrier of Conservative tank thinkers; it ignores the role of social media (other than Twitter) in shaping FM's talking points and UG's antipathies.
I wish Mr. Brooks had introduced a third character, the hostage negotiator, who talks FM down AND exposes UG's culpability in focusing exclusively on the New Economy at the expense of people's lives and aspirations that are dying between the two oceans. ET would make a good hostage negotiator.
The Return of ET could make a great movie and a better future for us, but only if we have leadership willing to address the root causes of FM's frustration and UG's arrogance. I know UG is revolted by the way farms smell of manure and is ignorant about growing alfalfa and eating sugar cured ham (ugh!) and 4H projects. He thinks beans are for eating, but FM isn't talking pork and...
Years ago, before South Works closed (near Chicago) the smell of sulphur was the aroma of prosperity in Hammond and Gary, and when the people who live there couldn't smell the sulfurous stink any more, they knew a world had come to an end, and it killed them with grief. It's way too easy, Bicoastals, to write FM off with the wave of an artisanal asparagus.
2
This is article is dreck. Despite their abandonment issues (and I have read many analyses and articles that point to wealthy white people as the real force that put Trump in the White House) or fear of whatever, the working class voters who voted for Trump once again voted against their own interest because of Republican lying, as they did with Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. All those who voted for Trump, wealthy, working class or poor, gave tacit approval to racism, misogyny, xenophobia, militant nationalism and militarism and all that attaches to those things. Nice try at whitewashing Mr. Brooks.
5
While easy to find some fault in places, it is still useful if we're going to have these types of discussions. Which we should. It's a contribution to something we need to get better at. But it's not true that there is less interest in this subject. Here's the best article I've seen on how, which includes a number of organizations trying, and challenging conventional wisdom along the way, "Complicating the Narrative," https://thewholestory.solutionsjournalism.org/complicating-the-narratives-b91ea06ddf63. My own conclusions on the obstacles, having written eight articles on it, are (a) we need to clarify why we should do this (remember the better arguments for being "one nation?" Not the racist ones), as it is so hard to do this, and, admittedly fun, if non-productive, to demonize; (b) the view (which is inaccurate) that such efforts cannot work, as "I once tried and..;" (c) the other side is not just perceived as evil, but actually is; (d) our side can win politically without them (which assumes a political "win" gets us out of the many holes we are in); (e) as others have noted, some benefit from the continued mutual hostility, and are very good at maintaining it. Here's what else I have learned: https://medium.com/@innovator3/the-speaking-to-the-trump-voter-series-recap-recent-ideas-cases-part-7-302904b50324. Here's what I don't know: https://medium.com/@innovator3/the-speaking-to-the-trump-voter-series-uncertainties-recommendations-conclusions-final-thoughts-12e717023084.
1
Just noting that more women vote than men. Yet, for some reason, this article is only about the imagined musings of men. Ref. https://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/sites/default/files/resources/genderdiff.pdf
2
Outstanding insight!!!
I have to wonder whether David Brooks, while making some good points in this "dialogue" realizes that he is pretty much on auto-satire here. "Flyover Guy"? Really? This has to be one of the most condescendingly-toned pieces I've read in the Times in the last four horrendous, tortuous years. And that is saying more than I could ever hope articulate here. Stop with the generalizations, look at the facts: the majority of Trump supporters are not poor, working class "people who work with their hands" - those are Bernie Sanders's supporters: teachers, Walmart workers, underemployed college graduates of all demographic groups all over the country.
Trump's supporters were and are suburban people in suburbs all over the country with a much higher income than the average Bernie (or Hillary) supporter. The MSM really really like to pin it on the "clueless" country bumpkins in "Flyover Country," and on poorer people, but that's not what the numbers say. There are big cities, universities and "urban people" all over the non-coastal US. People in Leominster, MA; Fontana, CA; or Wilkes-Barre, PA, are more culturally "flyover" than those in Ann Arbor, MI or Boulder, CO. It's complicated and these generalizations make the author sound ignorant and/or disingenuous.
4
The Con is On.
Remind F.G. that Trump built his businesses on the backs of 'illegal' labor & outsourced his production to China.
Remind him that Trump turned America's 'flyover' farmers into Welfare Queens.
Remind him that Trump's gentrification drove working people out of their homes, making his city for yuppies & filthy-rich wall-streeters only.
Remind him that the candidate who really did care about Workers, bad trade deals & borders was Bernie.
Remind 'Flyover Guy' about that last time they so militantly backed their 'captain': $7 Trillion bogus wars, 3/4 million dead, Refugee Crisis, Economic Catastrophe.
Remind him that the same hideous Hannity who they spent their days watching boost Dubya & the Dark Side, spreading hate against dissent, now boosts Trump.
Remind him how they were on the Wrong Side of History then, & that they should consider that before militantly backing this bigot.
But remind 'Urban Guy' that it's pointless to argue with someone who believes this Philanderer-in-Chief was appointed by God, & that God put oil in the ground for Believers to burn.
Remind Urban Guy that the sole reason both the Bush & Trump nightmare elections were close enough to steal, was that while redstates were radicalized by Hannity & Limbaugh, the tepid opposition failed to get out the Vote when it most mattered.
Urban Guy can blame himself for the disasters wrought by radical Redstatism if he refuses to do his civic duty & vote.
4
I am tired of these pieces that tell me my fault is that I do not try to understand the president's supporters; where are the articles that attempt to explain why I am against this administration without saying I'm for open borders, trying to take away guns, and a socialist? Why do I have to lean in to absurd conspiracy theories and blatant lies in order to have a conversation with these fans; why don't they have to raise their game to understand the people they disagree with? And, I will not accept that they are stupid as an answer, that is simply not true and a total cop out. I believe that many of them like this direction, they like the perceived power they have. It is just hard to get anyone to admit it. I am only "liberal" because humans frighten me and I don't want to be ganged up on.
9
The Con is On.
Remind 'Flyover Man' that Trump built his businesses on the backs of 'illegal' labor & outsourced his production to China.
Remind him that Trump turned America's 'flyover' farmers into Welfare Queens.
Remind him that Trump's gentrification drove working people out of their homes, making his city for yuppies & filthy-rich wall-streeters only.
Remind him that the candidate who really did care about Workers, bad trade deals & borders was Bernie.
Remind 'Flyover Man' about that last time they so militantly backed their 'captain': $7 Trillion bogus wars, 3/4 million dead, Refugee Crisis, Economic Catastrophe.
Remind him that the same hideous Hannity who they spent their days watching boost Dubya & the Dark Side, spreading hate against dissent, now boosts Trump.
Remind him how they were on the Wrong Side of History then, & that they should consider that before militantly backing this bigot.
But remind 'Urban Guy' that it's pointless to argue with someone who believes this Philanderer-in-Chief was appointed by God, & that God put oil in the ground for Believers to burn.
Remind 'Urban Guy' that the sole reason both the Bush & Trump nightmare elections were close enough to steal, was that while redstates were radicalized by Hannity & Limbaugh, the tepid opposition failed to get out the Vote when it most mattered.
Urban Guy can blame himself for the disasters wrought by radical Redstatism if he refuses to do his civic duty & vote.
1
Misleading article. It normalizes fascism and bigotry. Everybody has problems and challenges. Thats no reason to destroy democracy, human rights, facts and science, and just basic human decency.
3
Who else finds this offensive? It is extremely sad that we can't have a meaningful discussion anymore about politics. Writers like you fan the flames of the extremes on both sides...
4
Gosh darn it Mr. Brooks, you've nailed it again. America is a simple binary, utterly devoid of nuance. Basically, it's two imaginary white guys arguing!
Anyhow, being Urban Guy myself, I'm heading out to grab a quick kombucha because I'm like super-tired from typing this comment, and also from having to hear about how Jim Bob lost that make-believe awesome factory job he never had because of the Democrats and the immigrants.
4
I’m from flyover country. It must be hard for you to admit, David, but part of the problem was the media. Anything Trump did was worth a headline. By outrageous behavior, damning the immigrants, inciting his followers to beat up protesters, acting as if being politically correct was an imposition, he kept himself on the front page. Why didn’t the front page also feature stories about workers he’d employed and refused to pay, or people who’d thrown away their savings on the phony Trump University? Why not more about women he’d harrassed, vile things he’d said?
False equivalencies were made about him and Hillary.
And by the way, I don’t believe the elite coastal liberals despise flyover country. They were ready enough to hear about Lake Woebegon!
4
You didn't ask if this person thinks he's better off since trump illegally took over the presidency.Is his health care better, the air he breathes cleaner, how's the wall HE's building [yes it's his taxpayer money, not Mexico's]has he noticed more $$ in his paycheck, he must have a mother, sister,wife or daughter does he feel the women in his life are getting a fair shake, does he feel safe traveling on and over our crumbling infrastructure, does he like it that church and state are no longer separate etc.etc.I could go on and on but you,sir,per usual, missed the point
1
Yet another column by Brooks beating the “liberal elite” drum.
As if we were all born rich and educated. But, because we struggled to get an education, Brooks feels entitled to call us “elites” and tell us about people he doesn’t know.
You know that Flyover Man? I’m not curious about him. He was my father.
My father didn’t graduate from high school, but he wasn’t stupid. He would have turned off Fox News and seen through Trump in a red hot minute.
5
One thing David Brooks missed in this conversation - to ask Flyover Man: “I understand how your anger and frustration led you to vote for Trump. But how has he come through on his promises to you? He was only interested in manipulating you and getting your vote. What has he actually done that has materially helped you?”
1
Ignorance of reality sown by propaganda. Shameful and scary.
1
For a long, long time I tried to understand and empathize with people who supported Trump. Perhaps initially there were those who were simply conned by him but now, I'm tired of hearing the "poor me"justifications of Trump supporters. As far as I'm concerned they are either fat cats happy they are getting fatter or people who are just as racist, xenophobic and misogynistic as he is.
2
Is it just me, or are both UG and FM reading like white men? Feels a like the perspectives are a little narrow.
2
I find this reductive and patronising -- as if Brooks thinks he is the voice of the 'forgotten' American. I would rather hear directly from people in the center of the country, for example this bit of video posted by the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/where-is-the-line-republican-senator-grilled-over-support-for-trump-at-iowa-town-hall/2019/10/03/57406b06-2a76-406e-986a-ce924705cf77_video.html
1
Trump’s disdain for being caught lying is the hallmark of psychopathy. It is the psychopathic man, not the issues you hold dear, that presents the greatest risk. You cannot loosen Trump’s grip on his 40 percent via issues; you must spell out Trumps’s unique jeopardy; it’s not that he’s wrong, it’s that he is deranged.
Trump scores as an extreme psychopath on the Hare Psychopath Test. Psychopathy is a word with precise scientific meaning; it is a medical syndrome, usually signifying a defect in brain development. Just as autism spells out a list of life symptoms; psychopathy (ascertainable from biographical facts, no therapy sessions needed) indicates a complete lack of empathy, irrational self-involvement to a degree that, via cunning, chaos and outright evil, endangers everyone else.
When people describe their sad experience with a psychopath they often use the same word - chaos. Of course those psychopaths lack the Presidential ability to murder millions.
2
Flyover guy, if we are generalizing here, is ignorant in regards to politics, but holds quite a bit of racial hatred. Bad for all of us that his choice, their choice, happens to be a narcissistic sociopath. No answers here, just ... sadness. OK, I’m a little entertained by the circus, too, I’ll admit.
Would you please stop with the stereotype that Dems are "elites"?! Geez!
I am one of those who is having trouble getting medical care. I am having trouble getting my kid to college. I am making far less than I used to.
But I am not fool enough to elect a racist, narcissistic con man who has zero plans for how to help.
4
Brooks alter ego is a pathetic un-American whiner, who takes no responsibility for his plight but wants to blame the effete others he imagines on coasts he's probably never or rarely visited.
This supposedly "real" American want to shut out immigrants who's lives are hundreds of times more hellish, but who chose to do something about it by making a dangerous journey in search of a chance for something better.
By traditional Republican standards, who is the real American in this story?
2
Dear Mr. Brooks,
You've done a wonderful job of setting up the straw men to make your "Flyover guy" seem sympathetic. But you completely fail to acknowledge the racist aspect of the Trump/Flyover Guy compact. Trump will fight for their white privilege and pseudo-Christian social engineering. He will legitimize their babbling with his own
Feh!
1
Only one thing to keep reminding Trump voters complaining about hearings and subpoenas right now: Benghazi. $7 million; 33 hearings by Jim Jordan's “Benghazi Select Committee,” over 2 years—7 congressional committees had already investigated.
And oh, by the way, everyone in the Obama administration cooperated.
4
Ignorance and hate will always be popular with a minority of Americans.
1
The author took a cue from Shifty Adam Schiff and made-up the necessary dialogue with a fictional entity to attempt to prove their point. It’s not as abhorrent as Shifty’s, because it’s not under the cloak of Congressional activity, but, gaslighting none the less. Soviets have infiltrated the Democrats and are eating us from within (AOC baby-eater reference, cause why not)!
1
Aside from overlooking the obvious convergence of policy preferences between flyover man and Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, this heavily stylized discussion omits one of the key findings among Trump voters necessary for such a debate to have any meaning: their tendency to tolerate authoritarian rule at the expense of democratic checks and balances and the constitutional rule of law. This puts their complaints about threats to their identity and being ignored by coastal elite into a much more urgent, truthful and revealing context.
It also makes clear the stakes in defeating the man they often see, in cult-like fashion, as a leader “chosen by God” to rule, in accordance with the cruel, delusional principle of “prosperity theology.” According to this perverse, Christ-mocking reinvention of Calvinist theology, the rich are destined for eternal salvation, while the poor are to blame for their misery, since God has chosen a visible earthly fate for each which represents their ultimate paths to heaven and hell, respectively, for all to see and by which we are obliged to judge them. Anyone familiar with Max Weber’s “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism” will recognize this ancient, invidious, but still influential, idea.
Yes, the organized bigotry of the Middle Ages is alive and well among American “conservatives.” David Brooks needs to include all of the baggage of the Trump base to make this debate ring true.
1
Elizabeth Warren, fake left-winger, is reason enough to vote for Trump.
1
Oh, and no Trump supporter sees him as a SNAKE. A snake is someone who acts with perfidy, says one thing and does another, like Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi. Trump is as upfront as it gets.
I transitioned from Flyover Hick to an Urban Elite about 40-50 years ago, and have many relatives and old friends still out there in the hinterlands. Your Flyover Man sounds just like’em. Good job, Mr. Brooks.
1
Someone please share this with the Democratic Party leadership so we don’t have 4 more years of this.
1
David Brooks should really not present Flyover Man as having no time to be well informed. He has plenty of time to watch Fox News and listen to Rush Limbaugh. Willful ignorance is not an excuse for a lack of basic knowledge.
2
Hey, Flyover Man- can you tell me anything that Trump has accomplished for you? Has he made your life better in any way?
And if you had a business, would you hire someone who never tells you the truth? Could you trust that person?
All we are asking for you to do is to use your common sense.
2
FM needed a better education.
1
Trump talks like he's on the jobsite. Its the way F.G. expects the "big man" to talk. Hence he feels right to F.G.
The rest is....well just to confusing...
You've clearly never met "fly-over man".
3
Wonder what flyover woman would have said?
Or do the flyover men do all the talking for them?
And what about flyover african Americans?,..oh I forgot, they don’t exist,.in Mr. Brook’s mind anyway..or flyover native americans, or flyover l.g.b.t folks, or flyover milleniials, environmentalists.........??
Has Brooks ever heard of the republican Southern Strategy?..it’s simply moved north.
1
Flyover man is right. Liberals care about Trump while Flyover Man's world burns up in front of his eyes. And then liberals blame Flyover Man, even though his world was also burning up when Obama was President.
3
David Brooks nailed it...
2
According to you, F.M. says “the cultural liberalism you preach but don’t practice is leading to the breakdown of families up and down my block.” The implication is that F.M. – or at least his neighbors “up and down [his] block” - have abandoned the “family values” that conservatives preach and have adopted the “cultural liberalism” that liberals don’t practice. It seems bizarre to blame the liberals for this – and for you to imply that this is one of the main reasons that F.M. is sticking like glue to the last “great white hope”.
2
David, I love you and I can’t wait to hear Mark Shields disagree with you about this on Friday night. Both of you look so tired of having to talk about trying to make sense of it all and pretending to care.
What an incomplete article. We had a civil war over slavery. Now we are headed for one over racism and fascism. The absurdity of the plight Brooks frames here is of people abandoned and left for dead by a country of elites who have squandered what is great about the country. In reality, the country moved away from white middle class anger and the resentment of other people who work harder and feel no entitlement who have nothing to do with their misfortune. Trump's bond with them has been broken as far as economic help. He has already betrayed them. The core of his connection with these angry, resentful, gun toting , confederacy of misanthropes is racism and fascism. Who among decent people could embrace a man like Trump who is mentally ill, a liar, a cheat, morally bankrupt, who craves pulling this great country away from democracy into a world where he can betray American democracy and side with Russia and North Korea.
The problem cannot be solved without a reckoning. They are so insane many believe Trump was sent by God. That is how deeply troubled these idiots are. Nothing Trump can do will dissuade them. Great topic, no solutions and yes we have a problem. Most of us all knew it before your article and are deeply troubled by the divide. How about some answers?
7
"I would be open to impeachment if you cared about my problems..."
Huh? How would they even KNOW if "we" cared? Who would tell them, Fox?
7
Cultural profiling at the extreme. An amateurish effort Mr. Brooks. Well below your regular commentary. Tens of millions of Americans fall inside your two extremes. Bad conversation and oversimplified.
4
A "straw man" argument, Mr. Brooks? Hardly convincing, and you should know better.
Michael Bloomberg - please enter the race for Democratic nomination now!
The GOP won't outright say it, but they think a mobster in charge means they can sleep safely in their beds at night. They see his thuggishness & dishonesty as strength, and they admire (and envy) strength more than ANYTHING.
5
Flyover man. Remember you were born with the most valuable asset an American can have...you were born white...with all of its attendant rights and privileges.
I am sick and tired of flyover country and its southern partner moaning about lost opportunity.
As moral and ethical people we cannot cower in the face of its ignorance, racism and sexism.
4
You don’t get it, David.
Even terming deep scarlet southern MO,”flyover country” proves the angst of just about everyone around here: we are unheard, denigrated, ignored.
You assume that logical arguments & provable data would change minds. My husband, a PhD engineer, and nearly everyone I know, would disagree. It’s about being unheard. Condescended to. Our issues dealt with only on the backswing. Not worth landing here. At least Trump—so says those who get their news from Fox—pretends to listen.
I am viscerally repulsed by Trump and know he doesn’t give a rip about “flyover country”, but you’re really off base with this. That blue bubble you’re in has made you tone-deaf.
6
Fly Over Guy and Urban Man? You don't seem to want to acknowledge that half the voters are women.
5
Flyover Man: I also want to thank him for trying to take away my medical insurance
3
Hey Flyover Man, here's the thing: We Urban Elites, especially we New Yorkers who have lived with this monster for decades, know he's using you. Why do you think none of us voted for him? Wake-Up! Do you think you're any different from the suckers at Trump University or anyone else he's conned? He had the entire congress his first two years. He could have done anything for you. But all he did was a dumb, Republican tax cut. What did he do for you? Your jobs? Your opioid crisis? Those men you say don't have wives? Your farmers..they're going bankrupt and committing suicide bc of his brilliant trade wars? Your air? Your water? Your healthcare? Your infrastructure? Your schools? Your taxes? Your neighborhoods? All that carnage he talked about? WHAT HAS HE DONE FOR YOU except exploit your vulnerabilities while using you to hold onto his power and get rich off of it. You do realize there's a huge payoff for him from Putin if he gives Putin what he wants? You realize that, right? He's even using the military to save his resort in Scotland. I mean, Come On!!
He's doing to you what he does to everyone else. We Urban guys are watching in disbelief as you guys stick with him. He does nothing for you. He never will. He doesn't care. You need to take a good look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you're allowing him to use you this way. And while you're waking-up, we'll keep removing his name from our buildings because we hate what he's doing to you. We're actually on your side.
10
Ah, David - how nicely you skirted racism.
"Those people".
The misogyny and fear of anyone whose gender isn't white male.
Religion and the longed-for Rapture.
The faux nostalgia for the days when "I'm free, white and 21" meant everything.
The "if I can't have it, nobody will" spite and burn-it-all-down rage.
The one important question you never asked: So if everything is wrong, how, exactly, would you change things? If you don't elicit the truth, you'll never hear it.
Studs Terkel you are not.
4
It's inconceivable to me that people are not outraged by the degree of prejudice excised by the NYT, and Mr. Brooks in particular, regarding their flagrant use of journalistic license in describing and pigeonholing vast segments of our society. How ignorant!
5
Mr. Brooks, I've noticed that more and more of your columns are hypothetical conversations with imaginary people.
Should your readers be worried?
6
Flyover Man sure is articulate. Where did he go to school?
1
For all of you that want a Trump supporter to explain why they support Trump. Let me explain. In the 90's I was an industrial rep. I went door to door factory to factory until my 90 or so accounts left the country. Millions of jobs gone in just 6 years or so. This left towns devastated. All of the businesses that supported just converse tennis shoes went under. So not only 2500 jobs left but another 2500 auxiliary jobs also left. What was left? Service jobs, working at McDonald's, Jiffy-lube, retail all low paying jobs where both mom and dad had to work to make a living. Funny thing is Liberals believe it was machines, robots that took jobs not trade agreements. I was in 90 plants, one had 1 robot. Most people are also unaware that there are few factories left in the USA. Does it pose a problem when we dont make anything anymore? Well yes it does, I view it as a national security issue. The corporations that benefited from lower wages in Mexico..didn't reduce the price of a car they got rich. So dont tell me Republicans feed the rich and starve the poor. 21 million starved because of trade agreements while we made China a world power. Now ya all are crying the trade war hurts..well its about time something was done.
3
It is almost as if Mr. Brooks thinks Flyover Guy believes the facts in the NYTimes rather than Fox. No where in this conversation is disinformation mentioned. Which makes this whole imaginary conversation a nice little rhetorical flourish, signifying nothing.
5
Mr. Brooks -
UG to UG - Lets not sound like an UG, that you are though you and your ilk think you are smartly contrarian*, verbalizing for FM by assuming what UG like you THINKS what FM is feeling, in this surreal converation with an UG - meta woke of you!
FM is simply not wanting to get owned by Trump/Rs for the vote they cast for him/them in '16, as simple as that.
*actually you're not contrarian - you, too, don't want to get owned for a life-long support of the Republicans who are openly showing their true colors now & not ashamed about it.
I really wish you would stop these imaginings, be it about Elizabeth Warren or Mr. Flyover. It seems it’s your way of escaping an honest opinion about impeaching this crook so you don’t displease your republican comrades. Whatever happened to the law is the law, as your tribe so often pounded into everyone’s head, until your liar in chief, and I’m being kind here, got himself made president? Just curious, will you have thoughts on China investigating the Bidens or is that okay, too?
4
After reading this, I concluded Mr. Brooks learned everything he knows about the Trump voter from his Driver.
2
Dear Flyover Man: Talk about "pride" all you want, but if you want your family to have health care and your kids to have public schools, you better rethink your vote in 2020.
1
This insight into your mind explains the problem with the republican party. It does not explain anything about the two imaginary characters your conservative myopia created to excuse and justify the evil you support and work daily to keep alive.
3
What Flyover Man really wants are $35/hour union jobs with benefits that are only available to white people with no experience and who don’t have to pass a drug test and he can never ever get fired for any reason and can retire after 20 years and never pay any taxes.
3
David Brooks pretty much got it. Moreover, the combination of whining, mealy-mouthed democrats and constant bias in the press are cementing Trump's base. Seeing the world through the political lens of Schiff, Nadler and Schumer are enough to induce nausea and vomiting.
1
Sorry, trump may speak your language Flyover but he is doing nothing to actually help you. trump is only in this game for himself. PS turn off Fox “News”.
This reminds me of an opinion piece by Costica Bradatan published back in July here in NYTimes: “Democracy is for Gods”.
When you have so many die hard Flyover men in the system, democracy is not going to function well. Or will it?
4 observations/questions for FM:
1) are you better off now than 3 years ago?
2) given current policies, will your children be better off than you?
3) sorry to be elitist but look up 'cognitive dissonance'
4) I assume you are familiar with Ron White? as in, "You can't fix stupid."
2
Two words. Willful ignorance.
4
Yes, Flyover Man, he "saw" you, used you, and then abandoned you. Listen to Elizabeth Warren speak and see if you can't tell the difference between someone who actually cares about you and someone who doesn't care about anybody but himself. Warren sees you; Warren is you. She speaks your language. She's simply smarter than you (and me), which is actually an appropriate qualification for the leader of the free world.
1
Worst dialogue in the history of dialogue.
David you will never, ever recover from this.
3
Simple.
Many of them are white supremacists like him.
To most of them, it is more important to be white than to be American.
To think they are threatened by non-whites or by coastal elites is laughable.
3
Brooks should come to Hollywood and write a series on this. Very wry, accurate take on the white elites v. white middle and working class divide that is quietly driving politics beneath the cable-news and Twitter chatter.
1
Why did FM’s wife vote Democrat in 2018 then? That’s the real question isn’t it? Is it because she cares about all the “norm” things attributed to UG here? I don’t think so..,
Plenty of east coast liberals like myself grew up in flyover country and understand perfectly well how Flyover Man thinks. Understand it better than David Brooks does, apparently.
4
"Imagined" conversation indeed. This is no less a caricature than an article in Mad. Next time ask Al Jaffee to illustrate.
4
Brooks continues to follow Trump into ever increasing unhingement.
3
“He’s our guy” does not supersede the rule of law. You can like what a politician is doing but that doesn’t give him/her the right to break down our institutions. That’s how you get fascism.
3
Here's your problem, "Flyover Man": Trump isn't doing anything to address the problems you cite. Nothing.
1
David, please. Racism IS what’s driving Trumpism. Look at his base.
Gives a whole new meaning to going down with the ship. Like the doomed Titanic, grab a deck chair and hang on for the deep dive. Going DOWN!
I am also another "Flyover Man," and I sound nothing like this guy.
518
I get so tired of being told I should feel sorry for trump voters because they have no choice but to back him. The liberals pushed them to it! He’s the only one who would listen! He’s the only one who cares!
No. He’s the only one willing to lie to y’all about why you are where you are, and what it will take to pull out. The liberals told you he doesn’t have any answers that would work, but his answers required you to do NOTHING to change your lives — Don’t go back to school, wait for the mines to reopen! Don’t move to where the jobs are, sit tight and wait for someone to conveniently bring you great workplaces. Don’t learn to get along with new people, kick them all out.
Sorry, Trump supporter, but America was made great by immigrants who left places of little opportunity (your ancestors!) and chased down a difficult road that would lead to a better life. Your immigrant forbearers are disgusted with your lack of foresight, initiative, and drive.
32
Thought experiment: if Fox turned on Trump and started covering him like like it did Obama, would Trump voters stick by him in the numbers they have til now? I seriously doubt it. They are fed a constant stream of pro-Trump propaganda and excuses, and Brooks doesn't think this even merits a mention in his "imaginary" conversation.
1779
@JT Exactly. They are programmed over and over by propaganda, and they tend to believe that Fox is the one source of "news" that's telling the truth. They have no idea about actual reality.
57
@JT Sure but you and i are fed a constant stream of NYT and MSNBC. Neither of which tells the whole truth either. Did you know FDA tried to ban certain substances from vaping paraphenalia due to danger& Obama admin shut them down and lowed companies to develop all these additives? So we can thank Dems & Obama for current vaping deaths. You wont get that on MSNBC. Same with Kavanaugh debacle. Lots of stuff there that domehow never got into the paper of record. No, you and i are not as clueless as the Fox tv viewers. But we are pretty clueless...
32
@JT Exactly. Any replies I encounter online or in social settings that defend Trump are straight up Fox talking points, nothing original.
43
It is easier to look for a Messiah to save us, then admit we could do better ourselves. Accountability is missing in our society and I don’t know why. “It is not my fault”, someone else did it not me, I was just following what I was told to do”. I am a victim and someone else did this to me.” You were easy for trump to coned.
Trump will keep you right where you are, you may FEEL BETTER because you can give “the east coast elites “ the finger, dress up in make America great again, and go to a trump pep rally. BUT WHEN HE LEAVES TOWN, YOU WILL BE RIGHT WHERE YOU WERE BEFORE TRUMP, EXCEPT for the coal miners, farmers , people who work in manufacturing, people who want to buy a new car........and etc.
5
It's pretty obvious that racism and anti-science are the animating force of the mid-west and confederate states, just as they were back during the Scopes monkey trial in 1925. The nation has been southernized, and will not long remain democratic.
4
They stick with him because they just can't get themselves to believe that a human being could be so uncaring about anything except himself that he was rotten to the core.
2
My lord David... you talk about ignoring the “base”, but you also ignore what has been done to brown people under this mans leadership.
If these people like “flyover man” don’t care about how other people get hurt (ie brown people) by Trump/ GOP, then demand to be listened to, certainly don’t deserve the time to discuss anything.
The lack of self awareness has consequences.
3
You're giving the Trumpletons far too much credit.
3
"We knew this guy was a snake when we signed up. But he was the only one who saw us."
Oh yes. He saw you alright. Master con artists are masters at identifying their marks.
8
Flyover Man has been watching the Democrats trying to undo the results of the 2016 election almost from the moment the polls closed. Each attempt has failed, with the Russia Collusion farce the worst, but not the only effort. After three years, it is hard to take the attempts seriously anymore. You're worried about transgender bathrooms and emoluments. We're worried about the destruction of the family as the basic building block of society and people who hate America, rather than see it as a the greatest multicultural experiment in the history of mankind.
3
David, you're giving WAY too much credit for thinking to Flyover Man. I listened, cringing, to three FMs sitting next to me in a diner last night, all Trumpsters energetically and loudly repeating the day's Fox News headlines, especially about Shifty Schiff and the Dirty Bidens, as Gospel truth. David, you need to get out here into rural Trumpworld for real, get your Apple iMac dirty, and understand your fictional Flyover Man is far too intelligent, thoughtful and articulate for prime time. Sorry.
5
Sorry, David, but there is a darker side to the flyover crowd. You hinted at it with the tame "cultural" reference.
2
Since Reagan, the Republicans, and especially Trump, Fox News, etc. have relied and depended on the old and true adage..."There's a sucker born every minute." The GOP has done nothing during the past 40 years to try to make the average American's life better.
8
Interesting that 3 of Brooks’s last 6 articles have been imagined conversations and situations with a supposedly “moral” to the story. David, are you having problems with responding to the “on the ground” issues of the past 2 months? I’d like to know if you are ready yet to forsake the GOP and the silence of the wolves in the Congress?
5
They hate liberals. @Fletcher has it right.
And, unlike Brooks' analysis, @Fletcher's also covers affluent pro-Trumpers.
Taking this a step further, one can ask why they hate liberals.
I won't offer a comprehensive analysis but, I'll cover a few elements of Trump's base.
1. One fundamentalist Christian I know, simply hated having a wild Gay Pride parade in his working class community. He was uncomfortable having to explain it to his kids.
2. Others are vehemently opposed to what they see as left wing redistribution of wealth. They believe that Democrats give handouts to people who ought to be working.
3. If you have a blue collar job, do you want to compete for work against Mexican illegals? And, to them, liberals are more concerned with the plight of illegals than the workers they displace, who liberals don't seem to think exist.
4. You don't have to be a racist to like Trump, but, if you are a racist, you're more likely to be a Republican. Where are today's Dixiecrats?
5. The far-left looks alien to the Trump supporter. And, the far-left gets a lot of media coverage. It starts looking like the left is going to run roughshod over the Trump supporters.
Add these up, and maybe a few more, and it's about 40%
3
By digging into the past Flyover Man is making himself irrelevant to the future.
Also, only Brooks could pen an article about white America's grievances without acknowledging the racism that fuels the party.
3
Hey, Country Cousin, Democrats didn't create your problems. You did. Democrats didn't get your brother or your cousin hooked on opoids; but it's provable that your Republican elected senator and representative prevented anyone in government from doing anything about it.
You whine about your loss of well-paying factory jobs, and yet when it comes to learning skills that you and your kids will need to earn a living, you won't put in the effort. You complain about immigration; but you know that they will do whatever it takes to survive. Your red line is somewhere south of $25 per hour, with benefits. Your local officials let themselves get suckered into giving tax breaks to any company willing to gaslight them into believing that they'll still be around two years from now. You willingly believe whatever you've been told if it doesn't openly contradict the myths you like to tell yourselves about how much more American you are than any other immigrant group that shares our citizenship. Some of you are telling the rest of us that you're sticking with Trump 'till the last dog dies. Trust me on this, you don't want to put this to the ultimate test. Your self-destructive rage isolates you from anyone who might empathize with your plight and would be willing to help you get out of the hole you've dug yourself into. Think about that, and give us a call if you're willing to help yourselves, even if that means swallowing your false pride. Have a nice day.
6
According to Brooks's impersonation of Flyover Man, the guy has no concern for his own well-being or that of the country. This is Brooks's way of hurling cheap insults by putting words that were never said in the mouth of someone who doesn't exist, then waits smugly for readers to throw stones. The straw man is not providing any insight.
2
No. Flyover man is ignorant and watches too much Fox News. Climate change deniers. Second amendment is more important than the First.
The founders assumed an educated and civic-minded citizenry.
3
I suggest that Mr. Brooks visit the Fox News comments sections for better insight into the mindset of Trump supporters.
5
Trump voters stick with him for the same reasons Mr Brooks sticks with the Republican party. They cannot see the worthlessness of his/their policies, they cannot admit that he/they have changed for the worst and are no longer relevant, and they cannot face the reality that he/they have been conned into backing the wrong horse all along. You want to understand the Trump supporter, Mr Brooks? Look no further than your own mirror.
6
Are you not, perhaps, overthinking this dialogue, Mr. Brooks?
Flyover Man likes Donald Trump and will stick with him because, essentially, they are the same person. Neither Flyover Man nor Donald Trump has ever spent much time reasoning things out. They are not interested in nuance or information; they like to go with their gut instincts.
The true difference is that Flyover Man is mostly an honest man; Donald Trump is a scam artist who told Flyover Man and millions more like him a BIG LIE: "I'm just like you and I will fight for you." That's nonsense, of course. Donald Trump fights for nobody but himself. But he gives good entertainment value. For Flyover Man he's better than most TV shows.
Flyover Man will only abandon Donald Trump when he loses his job, his Social Security and his Medicare. Which -- if he sticks with Trump -- may well happen. He will not be happy on the morning after he wakes up from his Trump binge. But by then it will be too late.
2
Well-stated and right on point, gratis from Colorado . Inherent and explicit racism has a strong hold on a significant segment of our population . In our history we can see the Know Nothing Party in the mid19th century , slavery ( going back almost 400 years ago ) , the Chinese Exclusion Act , the horrors heaped upon Japanese-American families in the relocation to concentration camps after Pearl Harbor , Jim Crow and the need for the Civil Rights movement . Donald Trump , greedy ,dishonest , selfish-serving , narcissistic , represents the worst of these blemishes on our history because he is the most out-spoken in his racism of any president we've ever had . Historians , future and current must be almost foaming at the mouth as they prepare to recount the full extent of the degradation our our democracy by the slime currently occupying the White House and all of his see-no-evil lackeys in the Republican Party . Control the corporations via honest enforcement of the laws , overturn Citizens United and rid our country of the horrible scourge of racism that blemishes our image world-wide .
2
Never met a flyover man who talked like this. What fantasy is David Brooks spinning? I'm from Michigan -- all the flyover people in my family are either there in rural areas, or were inspired to move to places like Georgia and South Dakota. I promise you, they don't speak like this. They don't read, and any articulate political speech is buried by seething resentment of... everything. Oh... and Flyover Man didn't mention Jesus. Big mistake!
6
David, I have always appreciate your insights. In this one: 1. For a left and a right to exist we know we need the rule of law. If I were talking to U.G. I would point out that having a democratic country gives the possibility of his problems being considered by "Washington", if Trump wins, his fate will be in the hands of a despot, who may or may not do anything for him. 2. Hitler at the beginning was good for the economy of Germany, and its destitutes. "History does not repeat itself, but it rimes". As Primo Levy said, "if it happens once it can happen again..."
3
I have to say that I empathize with F.G. Some of the empathy comes from realizing that my gut feeling towards F.G. and friends is, in fact, holier-than-thou, or smarter-than-thou, or something of that ilk. That's what I sense from about half or more of my more liberal friends, though there are a fair amount who don't consider themselves any better than anyone else, Trump supporter or no. I read from this article that liberals perpetuate the animosity that drives F.G. to seek a leader who doesn't marginalize him with platitudes and condescension. Racism is indeed deplorable, but I constantly feel this air of superiority among liberal friends in regards to Flyover People, not because racism is wrong, but because they think F.P. are ignorant. Our word choices and tone of voice scream "you're stupid and immoral, and I am neither". At the core of F.G.'s behavior is defense against people who think they're better than him. This is NOT HELPING, fellow liberals. We (I) need to stop alienating Trump voters with self-righteous language and attitudes. We need to do everything possible to build bridges. IMHO.
2
Here is the meme: there is a flyover country where people who work with their hands gather in greasy spoon cafes every morning for breakfast. These lumpen workers have an innate wisdom that phony coastal elites lack. The lumpen's anger is justified because we coastal elites ignore them - as if they crave the elite's attention. This is how the politics of resentment works.
1
These commenters here prove perfectly Brooks’ point. They’re just so blinded by their rage (“We’re smarter. We’re always right. Just do what we say!”) that they can’t see it.
1
I think Mr. Brooks gets it about right. It's sad to watch the Democrats lurch to the left and thereby miss the chance to end this cursed regime.
"But I only see Democrats who’d make everything worse: Open the border! Socialism! More power to Washington! You could have paid attention to the forces driving Trumpism, but you ignored us."
You cannot penetrate these dismissive deflections of Democratic policy with reasoned discussions. This is the point in the conversation you realise you cannot change hearts & minds
1
Do you think it’s not nice that I would suggest that this column is about the biggest piece of malarkey that I have ever read? There’s no nice way to say it. The idea that the Democrats have turned their back on the white working class is utter nonsense.
For 30 years the Republicans have characterized the fight to be between the white man and others. Sadly, many white men have fallen for this nonsense. While all this is happening the working class has been decimated by policies that favor the wealthy.
The fact of the matter is that Trump supporters can’t say the true reason why they support him. Instead, they make ridiculous statements like “the Democrats forgot about us.” This is what makes them look stupid. Because it is not borne out by the facts. Democrats overwhelmingly support programs that help the working and middle class.
Democrats correctly view the struggle between the 2% and the other 98%. Trump supporters, strangely, view the struggle between white folks who used to have it better, and minorities that seem to be gaining on them.
Do I really have to point out what view this columnist favors?
5
I feel like Brooks’ would have the same response to Trump *actually* shooting someone on 5th ave.
2
I think you are giving Flyover Man too much credit. I doubt that much thought went into his vote. It was mostly a knee jerk reaction to a chance to stick it to the rest of the world, including, maybe especially, his fellow Americans.
2
Plato is rolling in his grave.
1
"Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm a man of wealth and taste."
1
You are playing a dangerous game here, David. I feel that this column was written with a thumb, foot, and half the week's groceries on the "Flyover" scale.
First of all, don't these wonderful hardworking people have representative government in their states? You know.....Senators, Representatives, Sate Government, etc...? You know the types. Steve King, Sarah Palin types who "Tell it like it is" (in a sort of convoluted, just had a lobotomy sort of way). You know the types of representative government these wonderful people vote for. The kind of representatives who think women can self-abort after being raped. The kind of representatives who feel that loaded guns should be in the hands of every school teacher in every classroom. The types of representatives who think that Jesus should be the only parameter in schools.
These people come from red states, elect red Congress members, and have/had no qualms about telling much more unfortunate darker skinned people to "Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps". Those red politicians who they put in office mean nothing? Now they elect a mob boss as President because the field wasn't as tilted in their favor as they thought it should be? They rail against "Socialism", but gladly stick their hands out for government subsidies and bailouts. They listen to blunt lies being told by a blunt orange object and they celebrate the blunt and overlook the lie?
More sugar on the dysfunction, David?
3
You forgot to mention trump's appeal to racism and his misogynistic behavior. That appeals strongly to this flyover guy. He doesn't want an equal playing field, he wants special treatment, his special place as a white guy to be honored.
3
To me, the sad thing is that Trump could not care less about these people. He's a NY billionaire narcissist.
2
Most of this is nonsense. Yes, I read Hillbilly Elegy. Yes I get that those factory union jobs are disappearing and have been disappearing for decades and the Democrats haven't spent enough time or energy to address those problems. But the most important thing that keeps Trump supporters in line is hate. He rants against immigrants and Muslims and people of color. He tells his base that he is the one to make white folks King of the Hill again. He gives his people permission to hate out loud instead of keeping their onerous opinions to themselves. I know that not everyone who supports Trump is a racist, but racism is the glue that holds it all together.
I am watching Trump at his impromptu, helicopter noise press conference. The man is extremely cocky, very optimistic about his election prospects. In the end, these disgusting politicians know they can depend on grand old American bigotry to see them through. This is extremely sad to behold.
1
Trump supporters remind me of guys in high school who took drugs, bragged about sexual conquests, performed poorly academically and mocked those who focused on studying and attending university. ‘Who needs education, I’m going to ‘make’ money’. Now—45 years later—it’s rich to hear them complain about poor family values, wholesale drug addiction, poor jobs and expensive health care. Hey, not quite as ‘cool’ now as you thought you were in the late ‘70s, huh? Well, then, Trump’s your man. The guy who blames EVERYONE else for his ignorance and incompetence.
3
Douthit imagines himself as Plato, conjuring an imaginary chat between contrived personas having a disagreement loaded with straw man arguments.
Given that the Democratic House has issued a slew of legislation helping the average American that the GOP Senate has blocked and Trump has ignored, this is, at best, a rant that the press has paid insufficient attention to what Flyover Man cares about the most, and how Democrats are on his side.
All Douthat has done is justify this ignorant, self-serving point of view, one that he has imagined without illuminating with any evidence or citing any actual people. Real Flyover people should be offended by Douthat’s low opinion of them.
It would be best if he went back to Catholic virtue-signaling. At least he can quote scripture.
God this is awful. I am so sick of hearing about how we need to understand Trump voters. There is never a corresponding call for them to understand anyone else and they do not care. Every one of these arguments is a strawman argument, and commentators like David Brooks need to stop legitimizing some very bad behavior. ti is time to hold people responsible for intentionally burning our country down.
7
Wow. This explains a lot. So out of touch. Have you ever actually met a FM (which BTW is a ridiculous term)? They most definitely don’t talk like this. Believe me I’ve actually had such conversations with real people. And it certainly did not go like this. Was more like talking to a wall of willful denial, ignorance and irrational justifications.
3
If your number one issue is guns or pro-life, Trump is your only choice; all Democratic candidates are against you. It does not matter how disgusting Trump can appear, he is your only choice.
2
Dear FM: Have you ever heard of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?
1
So Flyover Man doesn’t believe in our democracy, only his own grievances. What exactly is the point Mr Brooks, cave into lawlessness because fighting for our constitution is pointless?
3
I'm a farmer in Minnesota and I haven't supported Trump for a second of my life. so let's not pretend if you've been forgotten by the power structure and the economy you start burning it all down via trump support. If you're a trump supporter that's willing to see the whole system come apart because you're fixated on your problems. I have news for you. you got it good. if you're living in the united States in 2019 you hit the jackpot. 99 percent of human beings through out human history never had it so good. Part of that is shear luck and part of that is the system that Trump is actively dismantling. it's time to act like a citizen who deserves the luxuries our country affords you. we spend so much time blaming everyone else for the state of things. this is a democracy. Civic engagement is a responsibility. voting is a responsibility. if you vote irresponsibly, that's on you. you haven't done your job.
6
Hmm if Urban ‘Guy’ is an African American or Latino or woman, then this whole straw argument falls apart.
1
Why is it incumbent on urban guy to get to know fly over man’s issues? Does FM try to walk a mile in the shoes of disenfranchised minorities in the city? Does FM show concern for others?
1344
What if Obama did less than 1% of what Trump has done?
6
That was excruciating.
9
When Trump sees you, he sees a mark, someone he can swindle, fleece, hoodwink, bamboozle.
Never forget it.
6
Why does the term “flyover man” make me cringe? I’m no Trump supporter, but I’m embarrassed to see this term being used to describe millions of people in America. People who are noble, courageous, nurturing, or just plain scared and helpless.
By calling them “flyover” people, Brooks just bolstered their hatred of liberals and their dismissive attitude. Hillary made the same mistake, calling them “deplorables.”
2
"Here’s a confession. I used to think Trump was a jerk. Now, after three years of battle, I see him as my captain. He deserves my loyalty, thick and thin"
Yes we all want to see Trump tear down all our institutions while dragging the FBI, CIA, our nations allies and leaders, whistle blowers, immigrants, farmers, and manufacturers through the his swamp while proclaiming what a great country we are now that his highness ruling. Yup we made America great again now if we keep the Donald we'll keep America great in your mind, so no pesky oversight please.
Just so we're clear Mr. Brooks the GOP and Trump administration has fixed nothing by letting the richest 1% keep the country's tax money. The deficit has reached 1 trillion dollars!
You and your imaginary friend have a good weekend now...
4
Correction on third paragraph: " We knew this guy was a snake when we signed up. But he was the only one who saw us."
We didn't realize that he never saw us--or anyone else.
4
It's interesting that Mr. Brooks would not choose to consult with a Flyover Man or Woman who happened to be brown or black.
I've been told they exist by other people. And I happen to see one every time I look in a mirror.
4
Well as a resident of Ohio and a neighbor to Parma, you got it wrong. First, no one here would say, "The crushing climate of blue cultural privilege is too strangulating."
Prententious nonsense.
Secondly we didn't all vote for HIM, we voted against HER. We didn't trust her. Now she is saying, "It was an illegitimate election" which mocks our democracy. So, yea, we don't trust her.
3
I can resist pointing to everyone prattling about FM playing grievance politics. What exactly do you call the Democratic call for reparations except grievance politics?? Calling Trump out on playing Grievance politics is HYPOCRISY in the first degree as the Dems have been playing grievance politics for literally decades! So spare the hypocrisy it's nauseating and NO I didn't vote for Trump.
4
Your imaginary conversation borders on science fiction at this point. Here's the truth--flyover man has been harboring some really dark thoughts about people who aren't like him. Trump says those dark thoughts out loud, and flyover man LOVES it. When people come at Trump, FM takes it really personally, because in effect people are saying 'all those nasty thoughts you have are wrong and you should put a lid on it'. That's the bottom line. I used to think it was a lot more complicated than that, but having witnessed the past couple years, if it was anything other than what I said above, he wouldn't still HAVE a base. So there you go, you're welcome.
4
Dear Flying Man (cc: @DavidBrooks), we had a moderate Democratic President who cared about everything you mentioned. But he was black, and so you yanked us to the far right. Now we're embroiled in a constitutional crisis and you don't care. Your feelings are now the last thing in the world I'm going to consider.
8
It is not true that Trump is the only one that saw Trump voters.
This piece leaves out sooo much about Trump voters. There are many other factions that supported Trump.... To name a few, the KKK, Evangelists, White Supremacists.
Each has a self interest that they choose to blame on the Democrats because they have been played by the right wing of the Republican Party, played to their worst fears.
Somehow there needs to be a way to break this trance they are in.
3
Elizabeth Warren does speak to FM's concerns. In fact, she has a plan for them. Will he listen, or has DT become a demigod?
3
"We knew this guy was a snake when we signed up. But he was the only one who saw us". Yes, there's something very true here, When the political world remains in its bubble and ignores its weakest citizens (= those suffering and not knowing how to be heard), the latter react like rebellious children: "since this is how it is, then we will make you pay! "-" since you do not listen to us, you too will suffer ". Childish certainly, ignorant no doubt. . . However it must be noted that all policies have only widened the gap between "winners" (hyper-rich) and "losers" (more and more people). Without excusing these reactions I still want to remind those who govern us: focus again on the human rather than on the markets! Otherwise the crooks of demagogy will enter the breach and, like Mafiosi, will take hostage the entire population, including you...
Flyover man. Urban man. why isn't a woman represented - aren't they voters?
3
The major reason they stick with Trump is they were trained to hate liberals.
David Brooks, what they think is what they hear from fox, rush, levin, breitbart, etc. Write about rural America that is living an epic lie, and proud of it. Nothing to do with democrats, and what they do or what they don’t do.
3
Urban GUY and flyover MAN. Glad to know these two are David Brooks' representative voters. Mr. Brooks, have you missed a category of humanity (or two or more, given that both of these hypothetical voters are white men.) Neither of these types of potential voters are going to be decisive in November 2020. David Brooks, time to retire and open your column space to fresh perspectives.
2
What? Not everyone is laser eyed on Trump? Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are trying to help the Flyover Man but you don't hear about that on lamestreet media and surely not on Faux News.
Worthless article. Many dems, but of course, not the neoliberal corporate dems are worried about Flyover Man. They are republican light and follow the lead of the GOP.
Sickening that you cannot see it David.
Here is Mr. Brooks' message: YOU (democrats, urbanites, liberals, the elite, meritocrats, etc. - select all the choices you fancy) made me vote for Trump! I am driven by resentment, anger, and hatred - how can you expect me to think?
3
Warren does care about Flyover Man's problems.
She has a plan.
2
Well this Urban Guy used to be squarely in support of Flyover Guy before s/he took to heart everything they hear daily on hate radio and prime time FoxNews (Alex Jones. Rushbo, Mark Levin, Hannity,,,). What I’m hearing from Flyover Guy as I travel across the country is: “I hate Washington DC! I want Washington DC to fix my problems and leave me alone.” Huh? Many Flyover Guys are being taught to deny science. As technology speeds up our lives it’s more important than ever to consider what Charles Darwin might tell us: adapt or die.
3
UG: so how’s that tariff business working out for you and the family?
FM: Losing the farm and can’t get anyone to milk since my guys got deported. But you know, at least I got this nifty red hat!
1
"identity and pride"
ROTFL! If you ask me, a POC, those two words are code for:
Identity == White supremacy. The South will rise again. Innocent rural dwellers versus evil urban elites.
Pride == Red States leeching off of Blue States. Farmers taking handouts from Uncle Sam. Maintaining a smug feeling of superiority over the urban elites.
If you ask me what the people dwelling in rural areas need to do is to educate themselves more. With a little education the rural dwellers would be able to separate fact from fiction, fantasy from reality.
Then they would not get snookered by snake oil salesmen like Donald Trump and the GOP.
Then they would know enough history to realize the economy works best for the little guy when the Democrats are in charge and that this country was at its best economically when the rich were taxed at a 90% rate.
Instead the under-educated hicks that make up the majority of rural dwellers fall for divisive appeals to White identity as the solution to their economic problems. They rant about how proud they are to be under-educated hicks like being one is somehow a badge of honor.
I know people are going to attack me for having these attitudes but I was born and raised in Texas and currently live there so I get to see the "identity and pride" of these under-educated hicks up close and personal on a daily basis.
I grew up in a small town but managed to educate myself and evolved socially and culturally. I guess that makes me an urban elite now..
7
Sounds like Flyover Man wants someone responsible for his happiness. He's rolled the boulders onto his own road.
3
Flyover Man lets the worst and most repellent president we've ever had off the hook on the ground that Democrats and other progressives 'don't speak my language'. Translation: As always, Flyover Man's bigotry is everyone's fault but his.
Oh, and there's this: Though Flyover Man was purportedly 'interviewed' by Brooks, he sounds exactly the same, down to favored locutions, as Brooks.
Funny, that.
2
It's little surprise that Mr. Brooks appears more in touch and more sympathetic with with flyover man than he does with the urban guy, who is just a boring yet real American patriot.
2
People are mad that people call them haters for hating. People think if you can elect a hater in a popularity contest, it absolves hate.
1
Please stop dividing us further by geography and/or party affiliation. We are at the point where we as a people believe in fairness, decency, truth, justice, our Constitution or we subscribe to greed, religious brainwashing, racism, violence, lies, fear and hate. This is what one evil man has brought forth to our nation. He has opened up every wound, has flouted every law and norm, has diminished us in the eyes of the world, has stolen our national pride and our souls, has even threatened us with violence and civil war. This is no longer about Party. It is about patriotism and decency over chaos and evil. Call me naive, but I still believe the majority of our citizens, no matter where they live, are good and decent people who love their fellow man and will work together to rid our nation and the world of this aberrant abomination.
It is difficult to admit one made a mistake and though many won’t, in their hearts they know what is happening now is wrong, corrupt, unethical, immoral and is destroying us as a people and a nation. This nightmare will end and hopefully the Republican Congress, now lost in the wilderness, will return to sanity. Those who don’t must not be re-elected and must be remembered only as traitors to the American people.
3
Wrong argument. The real argument: what has Trump done for you? Which promises has he kept? How has he made your life better? Answers: none, none, and...whatever the grammatically-correct equivalent of "none" is.
1
Yup,the best way to get rid of annoying pests in your house is to burn it down. That’ll show them.
4
A comment states that the Democrats walked away from white working class voters. Why do working class voters have to be defined by race? If you are not a little bit racist, they are just working class voters.
2
Trump voters are often facilely dismissed as racists. 8 or 9 million 2012 Obama voters switched to Trump in 2016. What, millions of people suddenly became racists after 2012?
2
UG is kind of stupid. Most UG's would have known that when he received FG's first response, that continuing the 'Trump is horrible' line would not work. It never does. Yet, UG continued hammering this line for the entire conversation. In his first statement FG gave UG a huge opening by stating: ‘If people like you are unable to acknowledge my dignity and see my problems, I’ll stay with Trump.’ FG was pleading with UG to acknowledge his problems. Why did UG totally ignore this cry for help. Let him talk, listen to him.
Maybe his problems are huge medical bills, or his daughter needs an abortion, or he thinks drug prices are too high. Possibly, he didn’t get a big share of Trump’s tax cuts. Hasn’t UG read the list of Democratic accomplishments in the House that have been stonewalled by Trump and his Senate? There are very few issues that FG could raise that would show how Trump is helping him.
David Brooks’ portrayal of UG is completely unfair to the UG’s who have devoted their lives making the lives of FG better. It ignores the valid strategy of Nancy’s Pelosi in downplaying the impeachment and focusing on issues that would really help FG. She is listening to FG.
LOL! David Brooks speaking for Everyman! It really is a topsy-turvy world!
3
This article demonstrates that Flyover Man is looking for someone to pander to his worldview even while stealing the country and Flyover Man blind. In short, Flyover Man is looking for a con man who tells him what he wants to hear. If he hates the people Flyover Man hates, that’s a bonus.
2
I'm not looking forward to any plays written by David Brooks, if this is what he thinks passes for dialogue.
3
Thank you once again for right wing talking points under the guise of a “conversation”.
2
Mr Brooks, your urban man brought a pee shooter to a gun fight. Urban man should remind flyover man that the GOP destroyed the unions that protected his job. The GOP who applauded the CEO who closed plants and sent jobs overseas to unlock more shareholder values and yes it's the GOP who won't give you medical coverage at a reasonable price.
Mr Brooks you need to remind flyover man that Trump has done nothing to address the real concerns. He's all lies no action.
1
Flyover Man: I believe a criminal and a fraud is going to help me. Not with anything tangible, just with my feelings, because he says things that stick it to the libs.
Me: Your vote for trump is a tantrum vote because you feel threatened by demographics changes that you think should somehow be halted so you can have your safe spaces back.
2
Flyover Guy watches Fox News. They tell him what to do and give him lots of truthy-sounding reasons why. End of conversation.
1
This imaginary conversation says much more about David Brooks than urban and rural Americans.
3
Enter Elizabeth Warren.
3
Substitute "David Brooks" for "Urban Guy" and "David Brooks" for Flyover Man" and this is probably a fairly accurate conversation.
What does Brooks feel like he can speak for either of these demos? What are they both men? Why is the urbanite a "guy" and the heartlander a "man"?
3
Why publish an imaginary conversation with an imaginary person instead of getting out there and dealing with real conversations with actual people? And I mean actual people in both the urban and flyover locations, where the populations and views don't fit so easily and uniformly into these "morality play" stereotypes. This article is just way too facile and shallow in its approach. Come on, Mr. Brooks and the NYT. As experienced journalists, surely you're supposed to know that when you try to turn others into straw men, you just end up doing that to yourselves instead.
2
Well said.
What about the truth, David?
The Trump phenomenon is about one thing and one thing only.
Take Back America from the black president.
All the rest of the "rationale" is distraction.
1
'hate it when Dave's right...
Dear Fly-over Man,
That is extremely insulting to all of us "coastal elites" who work very hard every day at very difficult, low-paying jobs---builders, healthcare workers, educators, transportation workers, childcare workers......and yes, farmers.
Your thinking is just as self-centered as Trump's.
2
Dude. This is not how generic flyover man thinks and it is definitely not how he talks. This colum is way more condescending than the people you are trying to chastise.
1
Urban guy: The Democrats saved the world's financial system, our auto industry and countless more in 2008 o and did it without a single Republican vote in the House. This ultimately set the ball rolling for a rebuild of the economy with millions of jobs created and were rewarded by losing the next election to a narcissistic racist buffoon whose only apparent talent is for sounding like what a not so smart person thinks a smart person sounds like.
Flyover man: What time is the game on?
3
Trump does not care about you, Flyover Man! And David Brooks perpetuates the mythology that he does.
1
Dear Flyover man, Elizabeth Warren has a plan(s) for what ails you. Pay attention!
2
How does Flyover Man’s viewpoint relieve Congress of its duty to impeach, David?
1
This is a fantastic imaginary conversation, but nowhere close to reality.
Trump's supporters are emotionally entangled with him. To admit that Trump is a crook and racist is to admit they are like him. They would never do that.
1
Perhaps the author could talk to actual people instead of using his imagination of them.
2
Flyover Man knows the difference between right and wrong and he along with David Brooks tries to rationalize otherwise. Stop.
1
So if you support a racist who put children in cages people are not suppose to think something is wrong with you? If you are willing to let your family bossiness go under because you just love Trump people should applaud you? If you only have Tolerance for people who worship and look like you people should just overlook that? If you don't think a woman should have a right to decide what she does with her body people should just ignore that also.It is alright for you to look down on people of color but how dare someone look down on you?It must be terrifying losing White Privilege.
2
Brooks could just have easily spoken for the German peasant, drunk on blood and earth, in 1936.
I live in flyover country, empathize with the social dislocation that has hollowed out rural communities, I find it facile and intellectually dishonest to invoke the usual bugbears (immigrants, loss of blue collar jobs etc). Those factors could just as easily explain why Warren is surging.
Trump’s base sticks with him because there is so little accountability for lying, whether on the part of InfoWars, Fox News, Trump, and the entire republican hierarchy that enables this depravity.
I have yet to read a column by Brooks in which he repudiates the craven politicians and talking heads who defend the president and promulgate his lies. He can’t and won’t because he’s one of them.
11
Congratulations on perpetuating the culture war by creating unrealistic straw men representing extreme versions of the right and the left. This is highly irresponsible journalism. While it is true that your column is an opinion piece and not straight news, you betray the principles of good editorial writing by devolving into sensationalistic fiction. The newspaper is not the place for such wild speculations.
7
The information about who is making FM's life more difficult is out there for him to find, if he cared to look. Instead, he has reverted to the politics of spite and hitched his wagon to a man whose spite knows no boundaries.
4
Donald Trump is a Godsend. But not for the reason his supporters believe.
First, let us forever rid ourselves of the phrase "flyover country." Applying that pejorative to millions of people is simplistic and plays into a false narrative of our nation.
As does this column by Mr. Brooks. He thinks he's capturing the essence of two political cultures in our country, but he's just pitting stereotypes against each other.
He has "FM" spouting Fox News talking points and "UG" responding with intellectual "elitist" ones. Both extremes may exist, but the majority is in between.
Donald Trump a Godsend because he's openly doing what the GOP has done for decades.
GOP voters have been shafted for 40 years & they know it. They collectively gave the GOP establishment the finger by voting for Trump. People who voted for Obama couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary, even though her policies would have been much better for them.
You can thank a well-oiled propaganda machine and the GOP for Trump. The sad fact is that GOP middle class voters have been voting against their economic best interests since Reagan. They bought the "government is the problem" line, when (despite its flaws) the government is the ONLY entity that can give them a chance.
Trump is the result of the GOP's rot. We know only the tip of his iceberg of misdeeds.
We're at a pivotal point in our history. He must go, and the rest of the rotten GOP with him.
5
Bernie and Warren speak directly to Flyover Man's concerns but Brooks and the rest of the corporate media put the Republican scare words "open borders" and"socialism" in his mouth.
1
You know what? I am being ignored too David. Where is your column about ME? Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham are packing the courts with judges specifically designed to ignore my POV. My taxes (and the national debt) are going up to support an out of control defense department, create a border wall that everyone knows will not work, destroy the environment, persecute immigrants and ignore the law. My candidate got a majority of the popular vote but she is not president. Hey FOM ...welcome to America where EVERYONE is ignored except BIG BUSINESS folks who make large campaign contributions. Maybe we should all join forces to choose candidates who support fair elections, limited money and no gerrymandering...THEN EVERYONES VOICES MIGHT BE HEARD!
7
Bernie and Warren speak directly to Flyover Man's concerns but Brooks and the rest of the corporate media put the Republican scare words "open borders" and"socialism" in his mouth.
David brooks never mentioned race once in this analysis.
Race is central to the american experience. Race and racial identities literally color every part of being american.
Not talking about race is like trying to describe a foot without mentioning the word toes.
Race doesn't explain everything in america. But it sure explains lots. Omitting race when talking about trump supporters is disingenuous and ignorant of reality.
3
What an absurd column. A doable healthcare plan, like Obamacare (with Republican support) will solve a lot of American s problems. What has Trump done but outright lie about his healthcare solutions? He had no plan! if flyover people cannot see that they have been lied to, bigly, how can they expect anyone else to care about their everyday problems?
What has Trump done about infrastructure, a huge job creator? the opioid crisis?
He seems to be good at starting problems and then pretending to solve them. He also seems good at looking out for good old number one.
1
Helpful presentation Mr Brooks, but as FM suggests, the country (both factions in its political domains) Require --
changing the Minds and Hearts of their Constituents !
So it seems true "ignorance IS bliss" for far too many of us.
Both parties need to provide Visionary leaders who Truly do have the best interest of our Nation in their minds and hearts - above party agenda!
Today, governing style must yield to 'service to the Nation' With Integrity ! IMO
Voters, please step back - open your minds & hearts.....
Or, they're narcissists who voted for a flaming narcissist, and narcissists are notorious for not being able to admit they're wrong.
Democrats and liberals care far more about FG issues than Republicans, who disingenuously give the perception that they care. I do have to admit that Trump and Republicans are remarkably successful at managing perceptions.
A few years ago the GOP was telling us about how superior they were because of their ability to work hard, pull themselves up from nothing, and how liberals were lazy do nothings that the Real Americans had to support.
Today, after the GOP has had both houses of Congress for 8 years, 6 of Obama and 2 of Trump, it is still the Dems who are not paying attention to their problems. So they will continue to vote GOP until the Dems come crawling to them.
I am sorry. Juvenile behavior does not impress me. If that is your reasoning, vote the way you really want, for GOP racial identity politics, not for the betterment of our country. Punishment will continue until liberal attitudes "improve".
As for not having the time, they have enough time to listen to Hannity, Tucker Carlson and Rush.
1
Fine, Mr. Brooks. But how do you explain the absolutely cultist behavior of the college educated, 30+ years experienced, technical professionals I work with? These people are nothing like those you describe and yet they are willing suspenders of disbelief of anything Trump says and completely buy in to any conspiracy theory Trump espouses - no matter how ridiculous. They were completely credulous believers that George Soros funded Democratic Party efforts to implant Iranian terrorists in the convoys of migrants walking 1,000 up from Guatemala in order to sneak into the United States.
How do you explain this kind of madness?
3
Why are two guys talking, and not a man and a woman? Such an old fashioned practice of putting two joes together and calling it a template of our country.
2
I see lots of comments about your choice of "flyover man" as the moniker for the Trump supporter, so I'll just add a brief two cents' worth; it's an insulting choice to those of us in the Midwest who have two brain cells to rub together and realize that Trump is pulling the wool over his supporters' eyes about wanting to help them.
2
It's absurd to call the media's fixation on Trump voters "brief." The obsession started in 2016 and hasn't let up since. I have the impression, as someone who actually lives in flyover country among quite a few Trump voters - friends, relatives, co-workers, neighbors - that the media thinks that they're the only voters who matter. African American women are the backbone of the Democratic Party, but I've seen nothing close to obsessive coverage of that bloc of voters - or of any voters of color, for that matter.
If David Brooks actually had a candid conversation with a real Trump voter, he'd do well to tell that person to drop the self-pity, because it never solves anything. And if people keep calling you a bigot, maybe it's because you actually are a bigot.
Sincerely,
Someone Who Knows Many Trump Voters Who Aren't Imaginary
I am really starting to think that David Brooks has never been to a conservative part of the US. I live in a semi rural red area and I don't know a soul who sounds like this.
This is just another in a long line of conservative coastal elites who are trying to make excuses for what their ideology has become-which is nothing more than a party of social media trolls.
1
Lazy journalism, Mr Brooks. You set up the ideal conversation to make your weak point. If only you'd asked your ideal Trump supporter about the President's evident and forceful threats to the political systems and the economies that voter depended upon for his and his family's livelihoods. Because you don't have an answer to those threats, neither would he.
“Men are so simple of mind, and so much dominated by their immediate needs, that a deceitful man will always find plenty who are ready to be deceived.”
― Niccolò Machiavelli
4
It seems the Democratic Party left the so called white working class when it picked an African American as its presidents nominee. Let’s get it straight, Republican lawmakers (who are predominantly white) who took over state houses and in 2010 and 2014 that forgot the working class as a whole. They are anti union and anti regulations. Who bailed out the auto industry and supported worker strikes? It was Obama.
For every "Flyover Man" with such articulate concerns about globalization and the disintegration of the American Nuclear Family, there are five misogynists who were predisposed to despise Hillary Clinton and embrace a misogynist, abetted by a media--including this publication--obsessed with "balanced coverage." And for every "Flyover Man" there are also five low-information voters who flipped from Obama to Trump to "shake things up" and have been permitted--again by complicit media--to believe that he has done so to their benefit.
Trust me, I'm talking about my entire extended family, all of whom proudly contributed to Trump's razor-thin margin in the Midwest.
This sounds like David Brooks talking with David Brooks. The words of a Trump supporter? NO WAY! And it shows me how little Brooks actually "gets" Trump supporters.
1
Just to make it clear what we are dealing with when a president actually investigates our Intel agencies. Here is Phil Mudd, a former CIA agent, laying it all out for all of us on 10/2/2019 on CNN.
"I spent a lot of time in government. There are State Department officials who will testify; Intel guys, DoD - Department of Defense people, all of us are sort of brotherhood and sisterhood.
"Rudy Giuliani parachutes in from Mars. The people who will testify are going to look at him, including State Department officials and say, I don't have to protect that guy. He didn't operate by the rules. He didn't do what you're supposed to do in government. I suspect, he is worried about what Congress will do.
"If I were him, I'd be worried about whether people in government stick a shiv in his back. He is in trouble."
1
Some of Trumps supporters can be simply described as folks who cannot, will not, admit they were wrong. Jim Jones’ followers drank the kool aid, rather than admit there was a problem.
1
Brooks is no better than Hannity. What are you advocating for with this vignette? You really think you are the adult in the room, pushing for political moderation, David? You are clever, and this is a clever lie, but are you lying to yourself?
Your idea of political moderation will do nothing to break the vice-like death grip of the oligarchy's tentacles as they squeeze the life out of our constitution.
American corporate capitalsit culture is fundamentally nihilistic, and is the root of all of our problems.
You are trying to warn us that the right wing propaganda machine will be able to demonize the policy proposals of Warren or Sanders to the point of making them unelectable in a general election against Trump. Preserve that status quo and throw a few crumbs to middle america guy, is the gist of it. You are not helping the average Joes. You are not advocating for them. You're helping the Kochs, the Mercers, the Sacklers, the Schwatzmans, and the Mellon-Scaifes.
It is time to call the bluff. Warren and Sanders are both crushing Trump at the polls. Let's go. Your propaganda machine against our truth. Bring it.
1
The most meaningful word in Flyover's mouth is "my identity." The complex meaning is in the race-tinted grievances that become a nativist 'identity', with the help of Trump's propaganda machine. No different than the current extremism in middle-Europe, which Trump feeds into. In America, there's also Confederate identity, which Trump gleefully channels, while the media tippy-toes around it. Finally, there's an opposing identity, easy to hate, the Identity Politics of some Democrats.
Simply put, Trump was the one-dimensional demagogue Bannon was looking for, prone to influence, unstable, uneducated, venal, mendacious, and in love with flatterers. An identity! Either you're the spawn of George Washington, or you're the spawn of Roy Cohn.
Dear Flyover: What about the promises Trump made and HASN’T kept? There’s no wall to speak of and Mexico’s certainly not paying for it. Prior to Trump, illegal border crossings were at record lows. His provocations have driven them back up.
Did Trump repeal and replace Obamacare with something better? No, and rural healthcare remains in crisis. Did manufacturing and mining jobs return as he promised? No, manufacturing continues to decline, plants and mines continue to close.
Did you benefit greatly from the Trump tax cut? Not much, you say? But your children will be paying for the exploding deficits for years. Is your rural economy thriving with the Trump trade war? On the contrary, Trump’s killed the market for corn, soybeans, and other agricultural products and is trying to buy back support with handouts to farmers.
Is this the greatest economy ever? Hardly. Trump promised 4, 5, or even 6 percent growth. Instead, Trump has struggled to sustain 2 to 3 percent growth only by pumping more borrowed money into the economy. Trump’s created fewer new jobs in his first 17 months in office than did Obama in the last 17 months of his.
Have all those conservative judges done anything to make your life better? Is the gay family living next door in any way infringing on your right to worship as you choose?
Please, demand more in the next election. We can do far better working together. Best wishes from a city slicker.
1
Actually, if you wanted to base the imaginary conversation on empirical data gleaned from multiple polls, it would go something like this:
Morally sane individual: How could you vote for and stand by someone so hideous as Trump?
Trump devotee: The white race is under siege in this country. White culture is on the wane, and in a few years we no longer will be dominant. Because drastic, norm-busting measures must be taken to address this threat to white evangelical Christians, who by rights should rule America because it is they who are authenticity American, Trump’s hideousness is an asset.”
1
If you drive across country twice as I have done 2 decades apart, you can witness the state of desolation that characterize the USA.
Broken down houses with abandoned cars in front, trailer park towns with no culture. Same fast food in every small town.
You know the people have no health insurance and no education , as it costs fortunes and they are dirt poor . Absolutely no culture.
The only escape is the US Army.
As a European, I know that there is no such poverty in Europe. No trailer park towns, no 3 broken cars in front of planks and tin roof farms and the people if they are not rich, eat well , have health insurance and free education up to university . They have dignity and a deep local culture of being from somewhere and belonging to a community, even a historical lignage.
So FM, you think Trump and the Republicans giving big tax breaks to the rich is gonna help you, you think trickle down works? It has been proven not to, and the gap between rich and poor gets bigger under Republicans. How bout that tax break causing a huge budget deficit so your roads wont' be fixed except by a private investor charging huge tolls. How is trump changing your life there? Same deficit causing cuts to Medicaid so that the working poor cannot stay healthy to work. Your choice is to let them (you) starve or give them all welfare. Because they (you) are sicker. Trump changing your life again. Sounds to me like you bought the Trump book's cover without reading inside. Those bleeding heart liberals want to help the American-born non-college middle class far more than the Republicans do, or than big business does. Big business is looking for profit, not to help workers, and the Republicans are for big business. So you are wrong, Mr F.M. You are hurting yourself more than you hurt the college educated coasts. It is the midwest and the south that will bear the brunt of climate change too. trump wants big oil and big coal to win, while big oil and big coal automate jobs as fast as they can. And yet you think Trump sees you, well he does see you, sees you as somebody to be taken to the cleaners.
No need for a fictional Flyover Man. You only need to ask real farmers who are going bankrupt why they are still sticking with Trump. And if you believe them when they say it is worth their bankruptcy because Trump will bring good jobs back for hard working men, well, I have a bridge to sell you.
1
I know many people like Flyover Man. I've stopped talking to them. It's not worth the aggravation. Flyover Man cannot be persuaded. He will need to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.
What even is this?
So there’s the U.G. who’s well-read but out of touch, apparently doesn’t work, has no real problems or bills to pay, spends all day on Twitter?
And then there’s F.M. who’s simple-minded, blue-collar, struggling financially, hates liberals and the media, would cut off his nose to spite his own face?
Such tired narratives and cliches. I mean, come on.
“We can’t have productive conversations”? Not with drivel like this, we can’t.
2
Most Trump supporters need not mention his name. They self-identify with their comments on immigration, people of color, reproductive rights, the labor market, the environment, etc. How did they honestly think that a man of such limited intelligence, and his complete unawareness of that limited intelligence, would be able to solve the complex problems in this country? I don't buy it. He is the last gasp of hope for White Americans concerned about their decreasing numbers and hold on power.
Blaming immigrants for his problems is the problem. F.M.’s good jobs were moved off-shore by their former corporate masters, who are mostly Republicans. He better put aside his hate of the coastal elites and wise up to who his real friends are before his healthcare is gone too.
This is like the pact many Germans made in the 30s. Didn't work out too well....
Oh David.
You've bought into the 'economic anxiety' myth.
Why fail to mention that so many are energized by his outright bigotry and ultra-nationalism?
Are the clowns - and they are clowns - at his rallies who chant 'send her back' and 'lock her up' driven by economic and 'cultural anxiety'?
As for your mythical hero described here? He doesn't have time for Twitter? That's comical.
2
I am a Manhattan resident. When I read Mr Brooks piece my first thought was "How is this possible? Trump, a con man from Queens is a liar and has nothing in common with the majority of his supporters. He has lined his own pockets and the pockets of his children and is so corrupt I don't even know where to start." Then I think we should do one thing that the Republicans do so well: Gerrymander! Zig and zag thousands of miles and just break the USA into two separate countries.
There’s four categories of Trump supporters amongst my friends:
1) Bigots. Same folks that post pro Trump also post racist jokes and demean immigrants, blacks and Muslims.
2) Ignorant. Lazy in thought, too tired to pay attention, or incapable of understanding logic. Usually quiet about it.
3) Wealthy. Got their tax cuts, don’t care about the rest. Usually quiet about it.
4) Democrat haters. Will always vote R no matter what. Routinely post anti Clinton, anti Obama, anti whoever has a D next to their name.
Most of my personal friends who support Trump fall in 4. Some in 2 and 1 though. And many cross over multiple categories.
It’s that simple.
4
The way of life of every American is being threatened. Democracy itself is being threatened. That's our collective way of life.
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD 100%. - EAST COAST ELITE WHO WAS RAISED IN A RED STATE
Democrats are clueless and snide at their own peril.
Dear Fly Man, Did you know there is a "Kick Me" sign on your back?
4
bravo
>it's another "bigot tries to get away with being bigoted by projecting his bigotry onto other people" episode
1
I've lived my entire life below the Mason-Dixon line.
It's racism, pure and simple. To pretend otherwise is to be willfully ignorant.
7
david brooks' imagined conversation rings false in my ear. the trump supporters i know aren't animated by any kind of big picture understanding of white grievance -- no, they're simply misinformed. they've bought the fox news worldview hook, line and sinker, and there's just no common set of facts from which to have a conversation.
e.g., my niece, explaining why she was voting for trump: hillary is such a liar! she never stops lying!
5
No, I'm just not buying this anymore. Its far too simplistic. Just more far right Fox news gibberish. And it might be that I am no longer interested in an explanation. I just am committed to vote for the other person not the corrupt, lying facist.
2
Two reasons:
1. Frightened desperate people do stupid things, including sticking with their previous mistakes.
2. Trump is and does everything that they themselves want to be and do.
7
Oh please. This is so folksy!
Brilliant!
This is pathetic. Mr Brooks is trying to intellectualize something that doesn’t need to be intellectualized. Donald Trump is a bad person. If he is a hero to the little guy, the little guy is a bad person. Donald Trump said he wanted to ban Muslims from the United States. Religious bigotry is bad. If you support that, you are a bad person. Donald Trump is a racist. There are too many examples of it to mention here. Paul Ryan said he was a racist. Racism is bad. If you support a racist you are a bad person. Should I go on. Mocking the disabled is bad. Donald Trump mocked the disabled. If you support that you are a bad person. It goes on and on. Donald Trump is a bad person. If you support him, you are a bad person. Sorry. It doesn’t mean he won’t win in 2020 because American is full of bad people. I make no claim that we are better than that. We aren’t
9
Flyover Man remains snookered.
2
Too true.
It's become a game. We are all Identitarians now. Pick your team.
Brooks' Flyover Man is showing unrealistically high levels of introspection.
7
God Help Us All!
2
Note to Flyover Man. Trump looks down on you. Trump hates you. If you ever tell him you are voting against him, he will tell you this himself, probably on Twitter.
3
Was this an actual conversation or just in David Brooks imagination?
To me, the the issue is that the Trump voters actually think he cares about them. He doesn't. Trump uses his voters to make himself feel good at his rallies. Every one of them that shows up at one of the rallies and cheers & hollers feed his enormous ego. He could not care less about any of the people who show up. He thinks that these people are idiots and he's using them. Maybe, just maybe, Trump fans will start to figure that out.
1
Trump “sees you” FM because he can con you, nothing more.
Spot on.
Remember Trump said "I Could Stand In the Middle Of Fifth Avenue And Shoot Somebody And I Wouldn't Lose Any Voters"
And after all he’s said and done the liberal media still thinks he’s stupid.
Vain, impulsive, insecure, degrading our country? Yes.
1
You do some good work here perpetuating the lie that the Dems don't address Flyover Man.
1
Nailed it!
People wonder why? Racism pure and simple. All the rest are adjectives.
1
He does their dirty work in terms of keeping out brown people, and pandering to whites. That’s the bottom line, it’s racism and everything else is secondary. Period. That’s why Dems cannot move the needle on tRump.
1
"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
-H. L. Mencken-
Whether it's family values or fiscal responsibility or supporting the troops, there will always be somebody urging you to resent the other side Flyover Guy and they didn't have your best interests at heart then and they still don't. Rationalize this any way you want but they just want your vote to gain power for themselves. Rest assured you'll still be forgotten...until the next election. I'll be glad to see the end of this regime and all of the accompanying tortured analyses that have come along with it.
2
One word: Racism.
3
As I read comments from your flyover man I realized that he was really you. You expressed all of the frustrations conservative right wingers like yourself have with liberals.
"Now we’re just a block of concrete you call “his base.” Now, all you care about is Trump, not his supporters or the issues driving us." That's Brooks talking.
..."the cultural liberalism you preach but don’t practice is leading to the breakdown of families up and down my block. Children out of wedlock. Young men with no dad when they’re young and no wife in their life when they’re grown." That's Brooks too.
"We can’t have productive conversations if every time I open my mouth you call me a bigot." Yep, Brooks.
"But I only see Democrats who’d make everything worse: Open the border! Socialism! More power to Washington! You could have paid attention to the forces driving Trumpism, but you ignored us." Any doubt that that is Brooks?
1
No more healthcare? Don’t worry. Trump will MAGA. No more jobs? Don’t worry. Trump will MAGA. I can’t afford to send my kid to college. Don’t worry. Trump will MAGA. I can’t drink the water or breath the air. Don’t worry. Trump will MAGA. The white middle class is dead. Please bury me n my MAGA hat.
Kind of hard to make sausage when you're lying under the bus. Sorry, folks.
White Trump supporters are essentially scared, they worry that their "rank" in our society will only be upheld by him.
1
Brooks, again, has nailed it
It's racism. That's it. It's not white working class people feeling abandoned, it's white racists of all classes who would rather vote against their own economic interests than see people of color as equals.
Tried to make sense of your article. Couldn't.
FM has memorized everything he's heard on Fox. Good luck with your policy discussion, UG.
Mr. Brooks,
Don't have an imagined conversation with an imagined Flyover Man. Have a real conversation with a Trump supporter.
1
David, I generally like your columns but this one is dead wrong.
1
"You wasted billions of hours speculating about the Mueller report, and now news about Adam Schiff overshadows everything else while my world burns."
Wasted billions of hours? Since when is it a waste to defend the Constitution?
And why is your whole world burning sir? Because this con man isn't doing a thing for you, he's all talk. You are being burned sir, but by DT.
I have lived in both worlds and what I see from the DT supporters I know is glee in his willingness to validate their prejudice. I see glee in his sticking it to the status quo. Some of it is deserved. But his criminal behavior and attacks on the Constitution along with his lies and disregard for human beings, including children is not the answer. This is how you want to be represented?
And the liberal elites you trash? Most liberals I know are caring and humane people. We are not all HC. No one I know looks down on DT supporters for their lives. They do so in regard to what they see in their willingness to support a man who is tearing apart our Democracy in vain. They are in shock that anyone would support a man who has done everything he can to burn this country down and the rest of the world with it.
David, your fantasy is off the mark.
2
...Truth hurts...
—
What more is there to say?
Any trump supporter who thinks trump actually "sees them" is foolish. The man sees no one but himself!!! He is incapable of caring about anyone else. He fed into your weakness and you bought into it.
Wow....so many comments here completely missing the point of this article. I'm a registered Independent and a moderate, but I think I get what Brooks is saying. It's sloppy and lazy to just lay the blame on the GOP and some amorphous "misinformation campaign" to account for support for Trump. It's just as lazy to call these voters "uninformed" or worse, "racists" and "white nationalists" who "fear progress".
The truth is, in my opinion, much more nuanced. First, the left needs to acknowledge that what seems like "progress" to them, can be rationally viewed as the opposite of progress by many Americans - and that opposing that change doesn't make someone a racist or a bigot or a horrible person.
Second, these voters aren't stupid. They may live in middle America and didn't go to Ivy League schools, but they fundamentally understand that the world is changing. It's just that they either aren't ready for that change, feel that the change is happening too quickly, or worse, feel that those pushing for that change don't care a lick about them, their plight or their needs.
Third, the platform of the Democrats - purported to be a "big tent" is in fact largely tone deaf to the needs of these voters. It's a paradox that Democrats will need to confront, not just in 2020 but for decades to come.
591
Okay, Flyover man, I get it but I've got just one question for you. Tell me one thing this president has done for you.
Is your healthcare coverage better? Any of your buddies working on infrastructure projects? See any big change in your paycheck from the tax cut? Do you mind paying more for the stuff you buy for your kids made in China? Any problems with your kids going through active shooter training down at the elementary school?
2177
Dear F.M. Pick yourself up by the boot straps.
3
I have family members who are dead ringers for the flyover persona, and others who are less so, but still support Republicans. I am on the other side of the barricades. Of concern to me is that when the Democrats regain the Whitehouse, the Senate and the House the impulse to undo all that is Trump will be unstoppable, and for the most part I might be hailing them on, but dismantling the "nonsense years" without recognizing the legitimate grievances of Trump supporters would be a great mistake. The Devil is in the details, of course, but creating an eco-political system that is fairer for all, even if not completely just, is not only possible, but essential if the U.S. is to flourish.
No one cares anymore, David. I'm done caring about how they think, what moves them, how they live, and most of all I'm done worrying about how they'll react.
3
I live in supposedly "flyover" country. Articles like this irritate me. They assume that people like me who were raised in the same small midwestern towns somehow don't "GET" what it is like for the ones who back Trump. Give me a break. We had the same first grade teachers. I get it plenty. Honestly. It's time to stop acting like we don't understand these people. We do. Plenty.
4
I take solace in the fact that the 2016 election was very narrow and a lot of people voted for Trump because they hated Hilary Clinton.
Also, I thought fly-over man would be the person doing the flying over, but then I soon discovered it was the person being flown over. Shouldn’t it be flown-over man then?
Lastly, flown-over man defending his position sounds a lot like someone who voted for the NSDAP explain their vote when asked about it much later.
1
This imagined exchange misses the personal side of most real conversations. I think that this article from two days ago was much more informative:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/02/upshot/these-526-voters-represent-america.html
The danger of imagined conversations like the one invented by Mr. Brooks is that they are dehumanizing. I try to discuss political issues with people of a different opinion, but it is never exclusively that. We also talk about family, jobs, weather, sports, etc. In a personal exchange, I am interested in knowing the other person, not just what political tribe they belong to.
Fox News is training their viewers to hate liberals, but the truth is that conservatives and liberals agree on about 95% of issues that they face in a given day. Countering the Fox hate-mongering means making a personal connection that exposes the stereotype. It may be a hard pill to swallow, but embracing the person who thinks differently than you is the only road back from the current state of tribal hostility.
2
Count me among those who still can't figure it out. If all Trump did was to insult liberals, I could understand at least some of his support. But he also attacks patriots like McCain, straight arrow members of the FBI- people not usually identified with the left. He ingratiates himself with tyrants including those whose interests clash with our own- Putin and Kim Jong-Un to name a few. He threatens the safety of whistle-blowers, uses bully tactics to elbow obedience from civil servants, dissenters. There is more unrest and turnover in his white house staff than any other president in history. He won't reveal his income tax. Really, how do his followers deal with all this? I'm still bewildered.
2
I’m not sure if Mr. Brooks’ article is advocating for the inclusion of uninformed, misogynistic, and xenophobic views to be recognized as a legitimate part of America - but it feels that way.
2
trump supporters get their “information” from fox. fox’s business model is to spread lies and stoke anger. it’s hard to convince people who have never heard the actual facts. and once you’ve taken a stand on something, it’s easier to harden than to change course. it’s true for all of us, not just trump supporters.
2
This might be interesting, if you were honest.
Instead you assume the predilections of FM have inherent merit
That his prejudices are positive, his blindness born of Rain Man Wisdom.
Good jobs are going? Who's responsible for that? If you buy Conservative pap its Government but, tell me, when has Government prevailed upon Commerce to do anything?
Jobs go because Business wants them to go. The only ones attempting to stop the flow are Democrats.
Communities in tatters? Could it be the fracturing, the desolation of towns and neighborhoods has to do with a real-restate cabal that dictates anything producing profit is the best thing? That freedom to throw up any ugly edifice is paramount; quality of life (ridiculous a concept as "happiness", yes?) an unfair imposition on speculators.
That FM, timid and insecure as the rich and the corporate can make him, deserves to wallow in prejudice. That any attempt to give what he freely enjoys to others, living on the outside hungrily looking in, is a crime against American humanity?
Probably could be better said, but FM has enjoyed much and if he can't see what's called for is a little education, not allegiance to bigotry, he will never be happy.
Speaking of education, of concern for FM's kiddos, Republicans single-handedly destroyed the ladder that gave hope, even success to those foreclosed for generations.
These are hard things; easier to say "You got that right" and walk away, as you do here.
The majority of people who live in areas that voted overwhelmingly for Trump (I live in one of those areas) are concerned with only a few things. The first is that they see the culture changing. They are threatened that minorities are gaining a voice. The second is they are convinced the Democrats/Liberals will "take away our freedoms". I've never been sure how they calculate that, because the economic decline of the middle class - perpetrated mainly by policies of the GOP - is the greatest threat to people's freedom, but they cling to this trope. If you ask them what "freedoms" they are losing, it's a bit difficult to get a specific answer, but usually comes down to guns and mumbling about regulations and the government in their business. The Third reason is they hate paying taxes - because they think the "undeserving" ( that would be minorities largely) benefit - not themselves. I live in an ag area very dependent on immigrant labor - yet some of the biggest farmers complain about illegal immigration - while employing large numbers of illegal immigrants. These folks are hypocrites, so it's not surprising they support the biggest one in politics.
4
2008 lost a great automotive job of 30 years, age 58. Took some time to realize I would never work again for real money.
2017 sold my inner city condo for double, moved rural. Bought affordable home and new F 150 cash.
Always a hunter.
Happy now, but never have or will vote Red.
3
Others who have supported Republicans because of god, guns, and abortions have utterly failed to connect the dots to their current situation. Those same Republicans have also savaged unions which used to provide them a living wage. They’ve allowed corporate interests a free hand in “enhancing shareholder value” which has basically meant sticking it to people like them. Then they blame the Democrats for it all because Fox News told them so.
Unless and until voters come to grip with these facts, nothing much will change. Elizabeth Warren, while I don’t like many of her positions, is articulating these points very well but as a liberal she is the enemy. There is no real hope here as FG is impervious to facts. One can only hope that Democrats will do it right which will improve those areas they live in and maybe pry them away from the Republican grip of fear.
And it is fear. Not cowardice but fear. Scared somebody will take their guns. Scared of people different than they are. Scared that their churches will be forcibly closed. Scared, scared, scared. And Trump wants them that way because it binds them to him.
First, Trump does not "see" anyone but himself. He does not care what happens to anyone. Farmers? Let them go bankrupt in a trade war. The anti-immigrant contingent? He hires undocumented workers, wink, wink. Religious conservatives? Never been to church in his life; okay, maybe once or twice.
He appeals to the lowest common denominator. Period. I get that many people are resentful and feel left behind. He is not the answer. And his voters know it. They do not care. They just want to stick it to the "elites." He plays on their grievances. It's the only thing he's good at.
David needs to read Presidential Candidate Andrew Yang's book, 'The War on Normal People.' Sanity needs to make a comeback.
And we need to get rid of the two party system that gave us a 'choice' between Hillary Rodham Clinton of the endless scandals and Donald Trump of the psychopathic everything.
'Flyover country' isn't responsible for this mess - they're the victims of it and don't have time in their busy overworked overstressed lives to learn about the nuances of public policy and personalities - look at the pundits on nightly TV; they're still trying to figure out exactly what's wrong with Trump when the pathology is obvious. It's as if everyone has been hit with a three year long stun gun, maybe longer.
Now explain to me again why a 'Justice Department memo' means the President can't be arrested, even if s/he commits murder...
1
David Brooks -- your comments are spot on, but not limited to FM states. Out here in blue California, a radio host this week asked "please, call in and explain to me why you still support Trump." The callers were all young men who felt the need to yell to get their point across, which was basically "Trump is so macho in how he stands up to the world." How scary is that?
David you nailed it again. We as a country are not addressing the real issues that the middle class is dealing with. Trump is the devil and he attacks our freedoms daily and risked the republic. But so do the power elites who refuse to recognize we need fundamental change. He should be impeached. He should be defeated. BUT, without a much more “middle” message that gets us back to believing if we get a good education we will get a good job and we will have a fair shot at prosperity for now and our future generation, Trump may well win again. The crazy ideas of Bernie and Warren are not the solution. Biden? maybe as he is at least in the middle. But as I see it today. David you are spot on and we may be saddled with Trump again, who by the way is NOT helping the middle at all..... Absolute power corrupts absolutely..we don’t need more power ceded to DC. We need more back in the hands of local communities.
1
Most of the imaginary conversation makes an argument for Elizabeth Warren, until Brooks veers into a more traditional Republican belief system at the end.
I visited some relatives in far Northern Minnesota. They have no problems with jobs - several big manufacturing outfits within 50 miles in any direction. So many jobs that they bus people in from miles around and still can't get enough workers. They "farm" more as a hobby now than as a living. Indeed, their "profit" from farming is from the subsidies, not the farming. They all spend the winter working in manufacturing. All of them. Everyone.
They don't hurt for anything. Yet they voted for trump because they "don't like" Clinton. So they would rather have a raging liar than a run of the mill politician. They rail against "immigrants." Yet there are hardly any "immigrants, " at least not brown, non- Scandinavian or German. That's who settled the area in the 1860's. Any hypocrisy there?
They really have nothing to complain about yet they are on the non-immigrant bandwagon big time. Go figure. They are completely delusional about what Trump is REALLY doing the country. No sympathy from me at all. If these people don't wake up we are going to have no government left by the time trump gets done.
1
I think this is an erroneous explanation. People who are victims of con artists experience deep shame and seldom report the crime. They somehow feel it is their fault that they were taken in, and resist even admitting they've been conned. Many Trump voters know they were victims of a powerful con artist, but they can't admit that, either to themselves and/or to others. Whether they will continue to support him in the secrecy of the ballot box remains to be seen.
This article is very sophisticated propaganda. The point of it is not the argument it pretends to lay out.That is just diversion meant to trap you in arguing about personal things you have no need to argue about because the people allegedly opposed to you are not known to you and probably do not even exist.
The point of it is to convince you that this dichotomy actually exists so that you go on engaging the world from a place of fear and anger. Or if you are a little more aware attempts to try to get along with these straw man characters.
1
Why doesn’t this urban questioner ask Flyover Man to spend an evening listening to Elizabeth Warren instead of tuning into Netflix for 5 hours after work? Everyone has time to open their mind. Spare us the pity party. Trump is still the wrong answer to the right problem, and I have no sympathy for apathy and cruelty as a response to real life difficulty. I’m struggling too, and I know empathy is the answer. Ask Jesus.
1
Sure, when state Republicans block Obamacare, and one goes bankrupt because of mounting hospital bills, what is one to do but scream murder at the Washington swamp?
Sure, when Republicans slash state funding, cut subsidies, close agencies, lay off countless civil servants, and in so doing impoverish entire counties, what is one to do but point the finger at Democratic coastal elites?
This article is preposterous in suggesting Democrats are mostly to blame. Pan handle republicans don't feel represented because they vote for the wrong party, not because the right party refuses to represent them.
They got no one to blame but themselves...
3
I could be a Trump supporter if I thought for one minute he had any solutions to any problems I face. He doesn't - that's painfully obvious. What he's done is a sort of sleight of hand that is very crafty. Trump's antics shine light on just how corrupt our political system is. As much as Democrats want it to be untrue, Joe Biden's son's profiting in Ukraine simply reinforces the view I have of our political elite: Too many are in the business of politics - trying to enrich themselves; not enough are in it for public service. In fact, money is driving the whole system now and so this is not going to change - neither Democrats nor Republicans have done anything to get money out of the system. As Strom Thurmond used to say, "You can't get a hog to butcher itself."
If Trump is impeached, as he should be, hopefully Democrats also pass on Biden. Elizabeth Warren seems the least corrupt of the nominees. Given her track record on consumer finance issues, I'm sure she will take on the money in politics. That is the bigger issue.
Trump appeals to people because they are sick and tired of corruption in politics. It's truly ironic they think he will do anything about that issue but here we are.
2
I take umbrage to being called "Flyover Man." The moniker connotes someone who is ignored, who doesn't count, who really has no value or significant ideas. Only his/her vote counts when the time comes. Maybe Mr. Brooks should reconsider the vast majority of America.
This opinion reminds me of the time when he said the U.S. needed a dynasty called Bush or Clinton.
Normally a thoughtful writer, sometimes he really "steps in it", as Perry would say. Oh, there I go, being self-deprecation.
The Democrats have completely lost touch with the working class voter. Ensconced in their coastal ivory towers they imagine that a goody bag of free stuff (free healthcare, free college, free money in the form of basic income) will win them flyover man’s vote.
Flyover man does not want free stuff, he wants a dignified place in society where he has a job that is respected and the resources to pay his/her own way. Progressives simply wring their hands and wonder why he doesn’t take up a computer programming class.
Flyover man doesn’t want free healthcare, he wants affordable healthcare. He doesn’t want free college, he wants affordable college. Flyover man places a high value on the relationship between sacrifice and prosperity. This relationship is core to how he derives meaning from life. Branding him as a victim and a welfare case is not the way to win his vote.
For all his faults, Trump gets this and fully leverages the failures of past administrations to cushion the blow to middle America from the devastating impact of China and more broadly globalization. Countries like Germany have done a much better job protecting their manufacturing base, and culturally they have successfully preserved the idea that people who work with their hands are admirable, perhaps even esteemed, members of society.
To flyover man, “Make America Great Again” is a direct appeal to his need for a dignified place in society. The Democrats alternative of “free stuff” is thin gruel by comparison
2
I swear that I just saw the below play out on the south lawn of the White House:
The dominating concept and basic myth of fascism is the indisputable authority of the leader. The leader's domination results from acceptance by others as well as by himself of his infallibility of judgment, and of his role as the agent of history.
Using the Big Lie, propaganda must appeal to the emotions rather than to reason. Its success depends upon repetition.
1
Wait a second, David - "the cultural liberalism you preach but don’t practice is leading to the breakdown of families up and down my block. Children out of wedlock. Young men with no dad when they’re young and no wife in their life when they’re grown". How is that the fault of "cultural liberalism", whatever that is? I guess the free love ethos of 1960s communes has finally taken hold in white, blue collar rural America. Or perhaps, and more likely, they've abdicated the ethic of personal responsibility that used to be more common and that they themselves preach. We big city liberals seem to be better at getting and staying married and having legitimate kids.
1
Trump supporters are like a wounded man who go into an ER, stabs everyone who tries to treat his wound, then complains he's not getting any help.
There is a class of "urban guy" that is trying to help the people and economies of people in middle America: they are called Liberals.
- But the middle America Trump supporters now complaining about being ignored have spent decades defaming, dis-empowering and destroying the only people trying to help them fix things, then complain no one is helping.
1
What I want to read is a column in which Mr. Brooks confronts a real Trump supporter, not an imaginary person he has cooked up to fill his newspaper space. I don't want to read comments from people whose cousins and friends are Trump supporters. I want to hear from the cousins themselves.
I loathe Trump as much as all the rest of you but until we start talking to them or at least giving them space to present their view we are not going to win this fight. Don't pretend to know what a "flyover" Trump supporter is going to say. Ask a real one.
What I observe is that there are two kinds of Trump voters. People who love their money above all else and people who hate liberals above anything.
2
I find it hard to believe that F.M. doesn't see the inequality brought about by Trump's tax giveaway to billionaires and corporations, that he doesn't care enough about their children and future generations to want to address global warming, that he doesn't want to improve access to healthcare and that he has befriended violent dictators and humiliated our allies. The problem is therefore two-fold: (1) Trump's policies are a disaster for America; and (2) Trump's refusal to comply with the law is breaking our system of justice so Trump and cronies can enrich themselves further without any accountability. UG and FM share these concerns.
Um, no. It’s just racism, that’s it.
2
It's worth drilling home the comments some already made her, Trumpers hate liberals very much. Plain and simple!
3
I can give you the reason for Trump’s support- FOX “news”
4
Mr Brooks about nails it.
Okay, I'm joining this conversation. I have maintained for a long time that it is a head-banging experience for me to try to contemplate what trump supporters see in trump. I am not exaggerating -- I'm not being cute -- when I say I just don't get it.
I mentioned this recently to a new person in my life, a Phd in neuroscience, who teaches at the college level. He said that he has seen test images of conservative and liberal brains. In the conservative brains the amygdala, the part that rules fear, is larger than in liberal brains. Whoa! this makes sense to me. The people I know who support trump and watch Fox are far more fearful than others I know. They are suspicious and fearful of different types of people (think black and brown), different cultures, different religions, different foods, etc. They are terrified about things like "socialism," fascism -- I am convinced they could not define these adequately if asked to -- they're terrified of yogurt, yoga, smart women, spaying pets, fennel. The list goes on and on.
I have relatives who voted for trump and these are some of most suspicious, frightened people I know. They will no longer go to California, a place once loved and lived in and where we have relatives, because of what they see on Fox (the dangerous homeless, drug-addicted, street-defecating people lurking "everywhere"). They won't read the NYT or the New Yorker or watch NBC news for fear of being lied to.
They are afraid. Is this what it's about?
14
So, Flyover Guy is solipsistic as all get out, in it for his self pitying self. MAGA for sure!
4
Brooks and Flyover Man should check out Elizabeth Warren's plans for the country and where she came from.
6
Your dialog conveniently left out the racial animus of Trump supporters.
8
I know a Flyover Man. He is a neighbor of mine. (And so is she.) David Brooks, your very generous impersonation is no Flyover Man.
2
At least one Trump voter I know seems to be driven by greed, hate and stupidity. She is a New Yorker, with a solld teacher’s pension. How does she feel “misunderstood”?
6
I guess Mr. Brooks is pretty comfortable with false equivalencies. No kidding this is an imaginary conversation.
1
*pfft* -- how many of these "flyover" people do you actually know?
I know quite a few. Here's a typical conversation?
Me:What do you think about Trump and
Flyover Guy: HAHAHAHA He drives you liberals nuts!
Me: Yeah but what do you really think?
Flyover guy: I don't listen to the Main stream media. I think for myself! You need to listen to Laura Ingraham. Then you'll know what I think!
I am practically quoting actual statements. People who claim to be my friend are delighted to see my upset, and people who claim that they "think for themselves" think that repeating the name of a talk show host is equivalent to having an opinion.
I *used* to see rural people. I grew up there. But now .. I don't care. Farms can go bust. Factories can close. People can lose their medicaid. It no longer bothers me as long as I can avoid my taxes.
7
You ignore us so you're going down with us.
1
You nailed it, David. Now how to fix it?
Not bad.
That's exactly the logic that gets you to Xi Jinping.
1
Flyover Guy gets in bed and cozies up with the fascists, the white supremacists, the rich and powerful, the industrialists who want to rape and pillage the environment for profit, the bigots, the fear mongers and hate peddlers who are the trump base. Their respective “values” and hopes they pin on staying with trump are all ensnarled and tangled beyond any hope of separation. They have all become one and the same.
There’s an old saying that is very applicable here: if you lie with dogs, you will get fleas.
3
With all due respect, this fly over/urban nonsense is about one thing and one thing only. Race. The primal fear that white guys are not going to be in charge of everything is why we have a crypto-fascist in the White House supported and protected by pathetic enablers in the GOP. 90% of his Federal lifetime judges appointments have been male an white. Coincidence? Hardly. Shame on us.
6
Flyover Man? More like Straw Man.
6
Just another example of David criticizing liberals, this time in the guise of "Flyover Man".
3
Bleak.
David, go talk to real people.
9
The power of the electoral college is that the forgotten people get to stick it to the coastal elites. The forgotten seem not to care that the republicans have done nothing for them. They seem to enjoy the name calling and the elitist angst. The coastal elites gain nothing by continuing to use shorthand like "racists" and "poorly educated."
Meanwhile the oligarchs destroy our country, and our future. We are just so so stupid.
2
Thanks David for more polarization. I've flown over and driven through and at the end of the day we're both Americans. I don't think most conversations end this way and its a pretty cynical take to leave us with.
7
Very powerful. I get it. The two major population-cultural blocks don't talk to each other, don't register with each other, the elites aren't responding to what really bothers the others. You again identified the problem. This has been done off and on since the 2016 election. But you don't tell us what we all need to know: What's the solution? How do the Democrats and whatever moderate Republicans may stil remain convert the Trump supporters and persuade them to abandon Trump and return to their better angels?
1
At the end of the day there are two signature legislative achievements by the past two Presidents. One is healthcare expansion and the other is corporate tax cuts. How did the one that raised the top line income tax lose the middle to the one who lowered it?
4
This Trump supporter sounds too reasonable. In other words, one could reason with him...eventually. Most Trump supporters I encounter simply do not believe anything that is said about him in the "main stream media."
They think he's getting a raw deal, that he doesn't lie, and that he's helping them. Sometimes they are concerned about his cursing.
There are parallel narratives about Trump in this country, and they they never meet...including out where space curves.
5
What has FM gotten out of a Trump presidency? Trump’s tailors his policies to suit the needs of the corporations that supported him while appealing to the fears and hatreds of his white supporters while doing nothing to advance their real interests. And should he by hook or by crook serve a second term he will take a knife to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security (as he has already said). Warren or Sanders would better serve the real interests of the working class. Unfortunately, Trump and the Republican Party plan to demonize their opponents as “socialists.” Still, at this point in history, democratic socialism is the only hope for our long-term survival.
5
David, I bet your imagined Trump voter didn't start voting Republican in 2016. I bet he voted for Ronald Reagan who started the GOP's union busting mania and opposed the family leave act. I bet he voted for Scott Walker who pushed for right to work laws and resisted increases in the minimum wage or Sam Brownback who cut taxes so much that Kansas couldn't finance basic public services. Now he supports Donald Trump who sues in Federal Courts to have the Affordable Care Act repealed, starts a tariff war with China that is hurting our agricultural economy and is defunding the government with his tax giveaways to the rich. So pardon me if I feel very little sympathy with your imagined Trumper supporter's plight. He himself is the author of many of his problems, and ours as well.
16
As a fellow member of the “bicoastal elite “ ( we graduated from the same university) I found your editorial to be condescending and without any serious understanding of the electorate. I find it ironic that you who have encouraged people to have a more empathic approach to life would show so little of it regarding middle America. It’s a little presumptuous to conclude that middle America isn’t paying attention to the abuses of power. Nate Silver’s most recent polling bears this out.
I’m a psychoanalyst and understand that we all have limits in our ability to empathize with people who are so different from ourselves. This problem isn’t just limited to liberals. This is an issue of which both sides need to be more aware if we are to move our country forward
10
The problem with this scenario is that UG had repeated opportunities to address the issues brought up by FM but completely ignores them. Instead of digging in heels, UG could address employment concerns, etc from the perspective of the leading candidates to illuminate how the democratic party IS considering and DOES have the concerns of FM in the forefront of their minds. Instead, it's the one note concrete barrier of judgement. Thank you, Mr Brooks. Good job.
"Now, all you care about is Trump, not his supporters or the issues driving us."
Trump only cares about Trump. What has he done for his supporters? He even turned down an immigration deal in exchange for the dreamers and that's the main reason they voted for him.
4
I guess Flyover Man isn't bothered by all the anti-liberal material pushed by Fox News every night, is he? I guess he never paid attention to the attempt by the Republicans to destroy the ACA without replacing it (the last I heard health care in the hinterlands was not particularly good). And I guess he never grasped that Trump's tariff policy was hurting both American manufacturers and farmers.
It appears that Flyover Man wants to scream about the liberal establishment and the East Coast 'elite' instead of the big corporations that moved their factories to outside the country at the encouragement of Republican politicians (starting with Reagan).
Flyover Man (and David Brooks) appear to have a very selective view of what they are being told by Trump and the other right wing ideologues in the Republican Party.
7
Dems want-
Healthcare for all
Infrastructure program to employ millions
Less cost for education
Environmental protection to save lives and water and air
Humane treatment for immigrants who qualify
Fair taxes for all
Regs to control corporations from cheating the public
Control of drug prices
Retraining for jobs being lost due to the changing markets (less cars, less manufacturing etc.)
Reestablishing our farm markets lost by tariffs
Repubs? They have blocked each and every one of these bills . They support corporate interests and have had no policies except a huge tax cut for the rich.
These are the facts and we need to get Flyover folks to understand what is in their best interest.
9
@Richard Heard The flyover folks do not enjoy being condescended to; they think they what is in their own best interest better than you or I.
Maybe if the dems hadn't nominated HRC or Bernie things might have turned out differently. But they didn't have a third candidate. Now, they have too old Joe and the other leading candidates are pretty much cookie cutter images of each other -- left wing progs. They won't win either.
The left needs to realize two things: 1) a lot of people didn't vote for Trump as much as they voted against HRC, 2) the misbehavior of the left from Maxine Waters to the Kavanaugh hearings, the false Russian Collusion narrative coupled with their radical agenda -- will push more people in the middle toward Trump.
Trump has all sorts of personality issues. He's thin skinned, etc. But a lot of his policy issues are pretty good -- much better than proposing to spend trillions to tear up our economy to fight an imaginary problem -- climate change. Or open borders.
Or free everything for everyone. And for all the talk about Trump destroying democracy, who is it that has kept contesting the results from 2016 and are still trying to overturn those results? It ain't Trump.
7
I can see by the varied comments that Mr. Brooks' piece today raises their hackles by presuming that the minions of Flyover Man can be categorized as this or that. Yet without getting to specific items FM brought out, there certainly is a schism between the two divergent camps.
Perhaps it's time for someone to simply ask Trump supporters how they feel and find out who they are and exactly why they feel inclined to give the President a pass on so many different insidious acts and statements. It isn't that the more liberal and progressive factions have disdain for the "other side" or its varied challenges; it's that we cannot understand why "morally" you can support his lying and inappropriate behavior in his role as President.
The reality of the two sides is that currently nothing is getting done by either, that the divisiveness has caused our country to be so polarized that we've lost sight of the trees for the forest. If we rallied around a person who could bring us out of this miasma, we wouldn't have to worry about Donald Trump. He clearly isn't the right person for this job.
5
There seems to be a quid pro quo here. Flyover Man wants validation as a rightful citizen of this country with a right to redress injustices done in the relentless pursuit of wealth by the One Percent in return for which he will not burn down our country.
I get it, but he makes a serious mistake in not doing the work of seeking a solution first.
He watches the news but the news in Flyover Country is, to the best of my knowledge, delivered by media that happen to be dominated by right leaning corporate interests. Flyover Man doesn’t get the whole big picture. Because of this Flyover Man’s voting is based on inadequate information and he has wasted years in voting for people who would rather keep him worked up about the evil those people on the other side of the aisle are doing than working to solve the problems that afflict him.
Flyover Man says he hasn’t had time to look into the problem and wants someone to fix it for him. Perhaps he should have made time. After all, it’s not just his problem; the coasts have been fighting this battle too. Politics is local and you can’t fight Washington if you don’t fight City Hall first or find a congressman who is really on your side and not in someone’s pocket.
Somehow I have trouble seeing your version of Flyover Man as a self reliant and independent citizen. This is a man who needs the cooperation and good will of his fellow Americans but the best he can come up with is to call down a pox on all our houses.
11
At my age, I'm entering my "golden years".
During my lifetime there have been several major shifts in our society and economy, the pace of those changes have accelerated, and will probably continue to accelerate in the future.
When I graduated from high school, people who did not pursue a college degree could find a job with wages one could support themselves and their families, which offered the opportunity to purchase a home, with much less uncertainty in the challenges of life in the U.S.
Over the last five decades, that has all changed, not just for those without a college degree, but the level of uncertainty has certainly increased. Back then, as a worker you were competing with the worker down the street, now you are competing with workers world wide (in many occupations).
The U.S. has been a country where "you are on your own". Unfortunately, in that scenario, people do get "left behind". It's too bad that we also have that "us vs. them" mentality, if we can somehow go beyond that, maybe people won't be attracted to the message that politicians like Trump use to get elected, while further dividing us as a nation.
4
Sounds to me Mr. Brooks is saying that they don't teach civics in schools in flyover country. Sounds to me he thinks Trump supporters can't control their fates and have bought into the notion that "coastal elites" have injured them, ignoring the fact that most corporate management that sent work to China are Republicans.
7
The policies that laid bare middle America to China were a bipartisan effort. That is fueling the populism that allowed an outsider like Trump to win the Presidency.
2
What would cause people who see themselves a patriotic to turn against their own country? How could Republicans embrace interference from Russia? Why the betrayal of every supposed conservative value? It doesn't make any sense unless you consider the viewpoint that they view their country as having been taken over by "others". Yes, it is very much about race. There are other factors of course, but racism is the thing that ties it all together.
11
What I am seeing is that Americans on both sides of the partisan divide are deeply discouraged and feel essentially forgotten--and they are!
Both Urban Guy and Flyover Man are riddled with disappointment and self-pity for very different reasons.
Flyover Guy thinks that the enemy is the government, a secular and multicultural society, and the well-educated professional class who get the good jobs. Does he think educated teachers, nurses, and middle level managers are over-paid? Are those well-paid Silicon Valley techies happy with their jobs in alienating cubicles and cast aside as they age because the new kids replace them? Blame the government.
Urban Man sees the government as positive and a check on the greedy rich and Big Business to share the wealth, protect the middle class and environment, and provide opportunities for upward mobility that would not occur under elite rule and control.
Urban Man holds to democratic ideals, because he personally knows all kinds of people from different walks of life and values--different is good. Flyover Guy likes it when people "know their place" and he thinks different is not good and erodes the culture.
The root of our partisan animosity is rising inequality & demands for low taxes, due largely to the economic and political domination by unbelievably wealthy individuals and big corporations. There is no money for society & people
As long as Flyover Guy and Urban Man can be pitted against each other, guess who wins?
6
The conditions many Trump voters live with were not caused by Trump. He simply took advantage of people's misery, because that's the kind of guy he is.
Trump's predecessors did nothing to stop the loss of jobs to low wage countries and there was no reason to suspect Hillary would do any better.
Why is it that graduates of Harvard and Yale cannot grasp that Americans cannot compete with people who work for a few dollars a day? I got a B in economics, but I understand that much.
By the way, it will be the same with automation. The experts are convinced that computerized machinery will open a whole new world of opportunities. When you point out this isn't true, they retreat into the "winners and losers" argument.
4
One can count on David Brooks to always get it wrong and he has done it again with his delusions about Flyover Man. I live in the middle of a rock solid Trump supporting area that has always voted GOP. Most of these types rigorously avoid talking politics but I have lived here long enough to get some of them talking and they sound nothing like the David Brooks model.
Some of them will respond to issues but what they say sounds exactly like the talking points from Fox News meaning that their heads are full of the propaganda and lies of that channel. They have no shared facts and they are impossible to communicate with.
Those that think for themselves fall immediately into the forever fresh issues of guns and the Supreme Court. This type actually thinks that the Democrats want to take their guns and they invest guns with a personal connection to American history and self preservation. This issue is beyond logic for them and is big enough in itself to dictate the way they vote. The fact that I also own guns and shoot with them and have always voted Democratic makes me a curiosity but not a lesson.
And finally, the base issue of the Supreme Court is part of what they see as a war to return America to a conservatism in law that will make liberal ideas illegal and make liberals disappear. This deep seated hate of modern America makes them welcome the chaos and pain that Trump promised to bring. They are the post democracy voters that liberals cannot imagine even exist.
14
@Bobotheclown touche'
I live in the heart of progressive land and can tell you that dogmatism and propaganda are not solely right wing phenomenas. Instead of Fox News talking points it is MSNBC nonsense and instead of fighting gun laws it is outlawing cooking ranges that use natural gas.
The enemy is not conservatism vs liberalism it is ideologies instead of ideas, dogmatic screeds instead of conversations, virtue signaling instead of actual virtue.
2
Yes, David Brooks, we understand you don't like progressives and want a moderate Democrat (Corporate crony) but don't try to lie to everyone saying that is what Trump supporters want. They didn't like Hillary and they don't like Biden. In 2016 I saw many Trump voters who liked Bernie. A moderate Democrat is not going to help middle/rural America any more than Trump has. Warren has a real plan to help them but the conservatives have worked to scare them with words and threats of Venezuela rather than actual analysis. Please don't try to use Trumpers simply to advance your "back to the same old corporate backed politicians we used to have" agenda.
3
After nearly three years of talking with friends & neighbors who are Trump supporters I find that most of them voted for him based purely on emotion (and talking points from their news station of choice). Anger, without specifics, seems to be a common theme.
They also feel their lot in life is due to the actions of others while touting the need for personal responsibility and railing against any of their money going to support schools, roads, or any thing else for the common good.
These sentiments come from folks across the board including those with incredible wealth, folks on welfare, and retirees who rely on Social Security & Medicare.
Votes based on emotion and thumbing your nose at the establishment doesn't bode well for our future as a nation.
12
The precise divisions imagined here by David Brooks exist through the toxic design of this president & his handmaidens in the GOP. The deepening divide between Americans fuels the escalation of poison rhetoric that passes for discourse these days and benefits the party whose entire agenda is now focused on the bogus worship of Donald Trump, because that’s what he demands and evidently will go to any length to achieve. Eventually he’s going to need a moat to keep people in.
3
It wasn't just dissatisfaction that led to a Trump Presidency. It was rampant disinformation. Fox News and other outlets (along with Russian meme-mongers) created a landscape where any "fact" could be countered with an "alternative fact" until the very idea of truth is undermined. They created the natural habitat for someone like Trump.
8
This has nuggets of truth that absolutely must be acknowledged, yesterday. But it ignores the most important point that an understanding UG would make: that all the corporations, and banks, and manufacturers, and opiate companies, and insurance companies that have caused FM's problems are run by Republicans. It's largely the Republican philosophy that has destroyed middle America.
12
But, but, but...Profit!
1
Wow!, reading these comments is depressing. While I do believe that there is still a segment of the electorate who can be swayed in one direction or the other, it seems that trying to convince someone who holds an opposite view to yours is a futile effort. However, the conclusion to be drawn is NOT to wallow in your partisanship, but to redouble efforts to find areas of agreement on which to build. We must re-build our sense of national unity in which honest dissent and disagreement is not only respected but welcomed and encouraged.
6
Mr. Brooks, you have painted the VERY TRUE PICTURE of current America. The dialogue is right on.
2
Millions of people feeling like victims of government when they're actually victims of technology and corporate dominance of the economy owned by the oligarchy that trump represents. All the wealth is at the top.
13
My cousin is a fan. He has a bumper sticker, Trump 2020 Make Liberals Cry. I think that's comical, is that all you got. That's all he has got. He wouldn't be able to discuss any policy position unless it was expressed in a meme.
When Obama was President, Debt was an issue. Not because he had some inner conservative value about debt. It was because that was what he heard from his information ecosystem. Debt is no longer an issue. This turn off events seemed to coincide with Trump becoming President.
I think this is emblematic of what I call caramel conservatism. There is no value system, no philosophy, no set of internal values. He has a soft squishy center that moves where it is directed. I tell him this. He doesn't disagree. Sometimes I query "What if Obama did it?" This usually ends with silence.
7
I refuse to abandon my belief that there exists a rational, fair, and moral middle ground. And I believe there are many like me who would flock to a leadership that championed that middle ground. Neither UG nor FM represents us. Instead, they represent opposite poles of our society that have immunized themselves against listening, analytical thinking, and -- worst of all -- understanding, empathy and compassion.
We are all under assault, every day, from the spectrum of polarized media that dwells on our differences and disagreements, that vilifies the "other," and that, while adept at inflaming, has little interest in informing. Governmental and political forces are centrifugal instead of centripetal. We have acquiesced to a system that is rigged to tear us apart, not bring us together.
America is sick because there is no center any more and compromise, a requirement for a functional democracy, has become a dirty word. Would that it were different -- or that it could change.
4
My take from this column? We humane people need to do a better job hiding our contempt and wonder at the forty or so percent of the country who still support trump.
4
It's an interesting exchange but one has to doubt whether this version of FM exists anywhere outside of UG's imagination.
Over the years many have observed that liberalism contains within itself contradictions that can lead to its destruction.
Referring here to the classical liberalism of Locke and Milton and J.S. Mill of which the political philosophies of both American political parties are descendant.
We are at a moment when that contradiction is coming to a head.
Humans need a story. In the pursuit of liberal ideals that promote individual freedom above all other factors we have effectively killed the guiding myths that sometimes tempered the actions of previous generations. Enlightened self interest, greed is good and "freedom" are all that is left.
And guess what, the Romans were correct - Homo homini lupus est.
Without a countervailing narrative we see inequality increasing, we have several generations of young people that are essentially rudderless in a toxic sea of thought and we have many disaffected working hard to revive the worst components of the guiding myths f the past.
We need a new story, a new myth, a new ethos, and it won't come from those in power today. It will come from new generations coming up in the toxic sea we have left them figuratively and literally.
1
You would be closer to the truth by labeling your debaters as "Mainstream Media Guy" and "Fox News Man". There are plenty of FNMs in all states, not just flyover states. The problem is that the FNM world view is based on alternative facts: Global Warming's a hoax, ObamaCare is bad, trillion dollar tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy will trickle down to the middle class etc.
6
Cute, but this is not “what Trump supporters think,” it’s what an Urban Guy imagines supporters of Trump (also an Urban Guy) might think, who is no better acquainted with real life in “flyover country” than his more liberal neighbors. I won’t argue that the media’s obsessions and endless narratives are a big part of the problem, as is liberal arrogance. But you give far too much credit to Trump’s lip service to the white working class (little of which has been followed by action — what has he actually done for them?).
He has served himself and his rich cronies, cut taxes for the rich, cut regulations to help the rich, and then distracted his supporters with culture war issues tied more to racial resentment than class or “the elite,” a class to which Trump has always belonged. He realized early on how he could manipulate the white working class with culture issues, while actually serving the rich, and that is what he continues to do. The ill effects of the policies he favors, which liberals hate and his supporters cheer, like making it easier for corporations to pollute, make unsafe products, accelerate global warming, will impact lower income communities in “flyover country” the most. But he throws in enough cultural red meat that his supporters don’t taste the rest of what they’re being fed.
6
David, really good column. But it's not just the hillbilly's and blue collar workers. Look to Wall Street and the suburbs outside of NY and D.C. where you'll hear pretty much the same. Dems need to surgically remove the rabid left and return to its roots. And it can start with finding some candidates that can actually pull in those voters.
1
In any event, Trump does not, and will never address, FM's legitimate concerns.
Fm is being conned by both Trump and the Republican party.
4
These flyover men are entitled to have their opinions and their rights to vote and to vent. They did, and they got Trump into the White House. If they remain happy with how Trump has been running the country, they should continue to support him. The rest of America will just have to see whether we can out-vote these flyover men in 2020. Frankly, if they remain supportive of Trump, after all what Trump has done, especially with his pressuring Ukraine and now China to dig dirt on Bidens and Warren, I do not know why I should care about their feelings and grievance. I think that David Brooks should explore more why these flyover men care so much about their own grievance and so little about the country and our democratic norms. Are not they supposed to be the patriots?
7
He has taken on China directly and effectively; no Democrat would have even thought of that. He has taken on the illegal immigration problem very effectively; Democrats want open borders and lavish hand-outs for law breakers, while lying incessantly about his policies. Every day he fights for his constituents; Democrats fight Donald Trump. The question is, why wouldn't you want someone like Donald Trump on your side?
I get IT: Trump supporters aren't really for the U.S. Constitution or law and order, because they "believe" Trump cares about them. NOT SO NEW NEWS FLASH: Trump only cares about Trump.
4
Most Trump supporters I meet are one issue voters. Most are afraid of gun control. "At least Trump will not take my guns". Quite honestly if the democrats found a pro-gun right candidate they could win.
1
This is one of David’s consistent themes. It’s sort of like a Greek chorus. He’ll be telling Judy Woodruff something similar soon, usually once a quarter. Bad, condescending coastal elites who simply don’t understand the frustrated Trump voters who never felt heard in the past. But from “send them back” to “lock her up” to “ build the wall,” one realizes that Trump supporters are motivated by a lot more than the lack of empathy of urban liberals.
That said, he’s still at the top of my list when it comes to columnists/ journalists.
For Trump’s hardcore base, Trump and Rush and others of the same ilk, say things that reflect the way they feel – that they have problems and that some “other” is responsible for those problems, like minorities or immigrants or Muslims or China. Trump’s words reflect their beliefs about abortion, LGBTQ, women, elites, etc.
That’s all they need, they believe he’s one of us, he understands us, he’ll do what’s right for us. To a certain extent they are narcissistic, in that what they want or need is all that matters to them, and Trump reflects that, too.
They do not have the time or the desire or the will to try and understand anything beyond that, or more complicated than that. So they vote for him and continue to support him, believe he deserves their loyalty and that some “other” is persecuting him, in the same way they feel persecuted.
I am not saying this picture represents all conservatives, but I do believe that Trump’s most loyal base thinks like this and is likely to continue to do so. Facts, reason, and logic are useless with these folks.
2
David is provoking us here. Trump lovers have many reasons for their support. Some are wealthy and have become wealthier, due to the tax cut and the great stock market. They find all other things Trump repugnant, but increased wealth rules their opinions. Some find Trump despicable, but they are anti-abortion, so they stick with him. Some, like the guy depicted here, are angry that the wonderful economic times of the 1950s and 1960s have never returned; their nascent racism and immigrant resentment, can then be stirred by Trump and coupled to their anger. Trump has done nothing for “flyover country.” My Midwestern farming relatives are petrified of losing their farms, and the prosperous larger towns and cities have succeeded on their own. The truth is that neither Republicans nor Democrats have addressed the issues that have led to economic decline in the farming and formerly industrial heartland of the country. I lived in a Mississippi River town and saw the decline myself, beginning in the 1970s. Reaganomics did nothing, nor did Bill Clinton. Trump is uncovering a hornet’s nest of resentment, anger, bitterness, and, yes, racism and xenophobia ( the last two always present in America.) Don’t think all Trumpists are like the fellow that Brooks describes. I just wish that more Trump supporters, including Trump, knew and understood the Constitution. The impeachment fight will lay bare their ignorance or willful abrogation of our nation’s founding document.
2
The fact that anyone outside of the entertainment industry would use the term flyover country does rather illustrate the problem.
5
Doesn’t it just?
And PS- just telling the “rubes” that disagreement is “hateful” and “actual violence” is driving much of this- since when are Americans required to agree on all issues or be labeled bigots?
Trump's support cannot be gauged in a vacuum. Many voters, on the coasts as well as flyover country , are alarmed at the policy positions espoused by the leading Democratic candidates. Those positions are easily as radical as those proposed by FDR, perhaps more so. Politics is not only local, it's personal. End of the day, if the choice is support a toxic buffoon for another four years, or have your private health insurance (which you may very much like) taken away, your taxes massively increased, the borders thrown open etc., in the privacy of the voting booth people are going to hold their nose and vote straight Republican.
2
I had a conversation with a business associate yesterday afternoon who is a trump supporter. He is an immigrant, white, evangelical christian, father, intelligent and a successful businessman and a hard worker. America has been good to him. Our conversation did not go anything like Brooks imaginary one. He focused on what he sees as moral decay in our society and the negative effects he feels that it has on his children. I asked him if that is his primary concern did he see trump as a moral man, one who could lead us on a better path. He said no, but it was time to shake up the system and see if there were any moral decent leaders that stepped forward so sometimes you make a pact with the devil. He thinks the devil is doing a good job exposing the moral decay in Washington DC.
1
A democracy requires educated voters, not entrenched ones. That's why if Trump is re-elected, democracy will go down with it. And these flyover folks won't care because their resentment will never go away. Lastly, I would ask them: other than sticking it to those elites you love to hate, how has your life changed for the better with Trump.
3
"the cultural liberalism you preach but don’t practice is leading to the breakdown of families up and down my block. Children out of wedlock. Young men with no dad when they’re young and no wife in their life when they’re grown."
"The crushing climate of blue cultural privilege is too strangulating."
"I’d be open if there was a moderate Democratic Party that I thought deserved a shot. But I only see Democrats who’d make everything worse: Open the border! Socialism! More power to Washington! You could have paid attention to the forces driving Trumpism, but you ignored us."
Brooks has captured the Republican strategy and talking points so well in these comments. It has been immensely successful ever since Reagan. However, it is completely bogus. When the Republicans have had power they have not moved the needle one inch on any of the problems he lists. That is because the premise and conclusion in each point is unrelated. They know this but it helps pass their hidden agenda of tax relief for the rich and rampant corruption.
Whenever the Republicans leave office the country will be a mess. Overwhelming deficits, social chaos, democracy gone bad, climate changes that are rapidly approaching the limits of human adaptability and the quicksand of personal bankruptcy all overwhelming much of the population. At that point, the country will turn to the Democrats to hopefully fix our woeful state - just as they did when George Bush turned over the presidency to Obama.
8
"I’d be open if there was a moderate Democratic Party that I thought deserved a shot. But I only see Democrats who’d make everything worse:"
Nope. It should read like this, "I’d be open if there was a Democratic Party that I thought deserved a shot. But I only see "moderate" Democrats who’d leave everything the same as it has been for decades. They are delighted with what most offends me:"
5
Brooks' Flyover Man in the post-industrial heartland doesn't still "make things with his hands". If he did, the unions and the Democrats might still have his vote.
5
You know, strangely enough this piece calmed me down. It made FM human and understandable. Maybe I can go about for at least today without obsessing about the crazy news.
We are all human.
2
True story.
From psmag.com:
"A NEW STUDY CONFIRMS (AGAIN) THAT RACE, NOT ECONOMICS, DROVE FORMER DEMOCRATS TO TRUMP
Research on Iowa counties that swung from Obama to Trump indicates that GOP success was driven far more by sexism and racism than by economic anxiety."
Yeah...I'm not feeling too sorry for the Trump voters who are feeling sorry for themselves because we see through them TYVM.
5
Brooks utterly misses a key factor in Trump's support. Look at the map: 80% of that support is in states of the Old South. White people there have been filled with anger at and resentment of the federal government, the North and coastal elites since at least the Civil War. Trump tapped into the George Wallace base. Legitimate economic and cultural reasons had less to do with it than regional resentment and white racism.
7
This piece does not explain why a sizable chunk of his base voted for Trump—the fairly well-off white male, usually evangelical Christian, along with their wives, who usually follow their husbands’ leads. Brooks focuses only on the economically disadvantaged (who often don’t even vote). There’s more going on here than what Brooks addresses.
4
This is Brooks' imagination gone wild, inventing an apparition that is a caricature of a Trump supporter, with all the elitism and bias one would expect from a coastal urban dweller whose oozes with a sense of righteousness, moral superiority, self-importance, and superior intelligence.
Trump supporters are not all uneducated rural men from hollowed out manufacturing towns, bitter at the world. This is a stereotype that is often perpetuated by the msm. In truth, many Trump supporters are people with a PhD (like me), an MD (like my sibling), or a former CEO (like my dad).
By the way, Laura from Kirkland, I can answer your question. First of all, there are more manufacturing jobs now than when Trump took office. Secondly, I know my family and many families around me enjoy being "allowed" to keep more of their money, investing it in small businesses, savings, and college funds for their children. We pay about $3500 less in taxes because of Trump's tax cut. Yes, we still know he sees us.
1
Democrats cannot focus. In addition to the valid arguments, Brooks points to and Pelosi's determination to limit the Impeachment enquiry to the Ukraine issue, We are all over the map. Trump was extorting the Ukrainians. That is all that matters. Don't confuse the issue with interference in our elections, asking foreigners to investigate US citizens, collusion or not adhering to Presidential behavioural norms. Keep it simple; he is an unindicted co-conspirator, obstructed justice and got away with it because he is a sitting President and now engaged in extortion. Would you be happy if your neighbor to get away with that?
1
Tim Alberta American Carnage is a long and depressing book that conforms to the social science research: virulent racism among too many voters had taken over the gop. Cut the stuff about flyover country. We got Trump because of a successful effort at voter suppression and sexism.
1
Brooks' Flyover Man complains that "mass immigration is changing" his town. Trump has certainly made clamping down on immigration a central theme of his administration, but it's all smoke and mirrors. Most immigrants don't go to Flyover Man's town; even the "unauthorized immigrants" overwhelmingly go to Blue California and big urban areas around the nation (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/unauthorized-immigrant-populations-country-and-region-top-state-and-county). The nation's economy has clearly passed Flyover Man's world by, but Trump and his supporters' blame of immigrants is simply a way of making a difficult problem seem easy to solve.
2
The simplest explanation is usually the best, and most honest.
Trump is a con man. His "bases" are his marks. Period.
He could not care less about them or their problems except inasmuch as they can help him get power, and stay in power. His actions to date have all been negative to his base. They have not figured that out yet (even his SC appointments will come back to hurt his base as they work hard over the next several decades to strip them of their freedoms).
In short, Trump has sold them a bill of goods and they have bought it all lock, stock and barrel. They will not have better lives due to Trump. Indeed, their lives are going to be much, much worse as he dismantles the government and leaves them to the corporate wolves.
The sad part is they are dragging the MAJORITY who would NEVER vote for trump along with them on their descent into irrelevance.
5
I grew in west Texas up among immigrants and sons, grandsons and great-grandsons (and daughters) of Mexican immigrants. I noticed very little difference between them and us in any important respect.
Why is it that most anti-immigrant fear is coming from people in places where immigrants are the fewest? Are people getting a load of pseudo-news from some conspiracy channel?
2
i am tired of the excessive griping of the "flyover man". and i would let them know that because they aren't really patriots, and are willing to sign away our futures because they have a bone to pick they can reap the whirlwind. because they don't care about science, they don't care about education, they don't care about healthcare then we are all going down the tubes with the nihilists in the flyover country. we knew years ago that the economic changes brought about by our corporations moving over seas, by walmart going from American made to Foreign made, all that would effect flyover country. options are limited here and people are trying to get by but some people living in flyover country aren't angry and did not vote for trump. those people are the people who are fighting for our future. and anyway mcconnell zeroed out our votes for the 8 years of obama's presidency...stop whining
4
David, I'm from the midwest and have many family members who support Trump. Their reasons sound very little like the ones you've presented here from "flyover man." You left out all of the racism and conspiracy theories that real Trump supporters spout. If anyone is out of touch, it's not your "urban guy"...it's you, with your imagined "flyover man." You are in your own elite bubble, trying to put noble words into the mouths of people who are doing a terrible thing--supporting an autocrat who is undermining the rule of law and democratic norms.
2
F.M.'s saga of whine and cheese.
The base of hate that supports trump will never look at themselves as the problem and will continue to blame everyone except themselves.
I've lived in the mid west, I know what trumps base is like.
trump does their bullying and thinking for them.
fox news does their research for them.
their churches, evangelical and the rest, guide trumps base of hate's perspectives and guide their moral / ethical standards.
they are so imprisoned in their trump world they are blind to compassion and tolerance that the Bible speaks of and we are so in need of at this time.
3
Another Brooks attempt to move the Democratic Party to the Center. Many GOP pundits are so desperate for a moderate party now that the GOP is Trump's party. Biden is their man. He would have been considered a moderate Republican in the 90s. The truth is that Trump supporters are primarily bigots and sexist. The truth is that Trump's policies have not helped most of them, unless you are an owner of a company or executive. Farmers got crushed and manufacturing is already in a recession.
1
Once again Brooks uses his simplified Two Factor system to explain something multidetermined. Complexity escapes him.Trump's "base" is more difficult to understand than linking with the middle of America.
The answer is really rather simple.
Let Congress focus on impeachment and the presidential candidates focus on "Flyover Man".
I think if the Dems do this, they will win in 2020.
1
Brilliant, David!
I’ve often asked my more liberal friends where do they think folks coming into this country without skills settle. They settle in already poor communities & increase their school costs without raising the educational outcomes for FOM’s kids. The health, education & services costs go up for poor communities while the wealthiest folks skip out on responsibility.
It’s easy to be liberal when your net worth is growing; less so when your net worth is non existent.
A level playing field is a myth created by the folks on the top of the hill.