Trump and his stupid trade war is the problem. When Trump goes, you can hit the reset button and things will start getting better again. Unfortunately, kicking the fool out the Oval Office might collapse our own US economy and of course he will blame it on the Chinese. Anyway, the Chinese people are very resilient. Perhaps this generation did not suffer, but their parents all did suffer struggling to build up their economy that what it is now. No Chinese youngster I know doesn't know what their parents went through, and unlike in America, they love their country and will rise up to do what it takes to said through the rough waters. They are not a bunch of slouchers like Americans are. Hey, it's golden week in China now, let's take the pulse after the week is over.
6
@Blues Sky White Clouds "When Trump goes"? Are you so sure? Did you not read the column by Thomas B. Edsall:Will Trump Ever Leave the White House? If not, please go read it.
4
China has in the last 35 years raised 650 million out of poverty and into the middle class and at the same time created a pride in their country in becoming a force in the world. With this amount of people that have money to spend, I'm sure that most will spend more in China and purchasing Chinese products rather than imports especially American Imports and with a population of 1.3 billion that is a lot of consumers, enough to cushion some of the loss of export sales to the US. Other countries will continue to purchase Chinese products while Americans likely will cut back. Nevertheless the Chinese have a much larger domestic purchasing power ability than does America and with the vitriol coming from Trump and the US MSM it is very likely that this will play a large part as to where it's purchasing power will be used : domestically! and will play a large part in the the outcome of the trade war between the US and China. And with Trump's bullying tactics as far as sanctions and tariffs on other countries (even so called friendly ones) are concerned I'm sure that there will be many cheering for China.
4
@KoreyD It never fails to amaze me how every wumao argument must mention the statement "lifted millions out of poverty". "cheering for china"? Are these patriotic platitudes, lifted almost verbatim from the litany of communist propaganda talking points, going to prevent hundreds of millions of Chinese from realizing their money is fake, and their loans are bad? If a government has to impose a social credit score for expressing love for a country, and threaten imprisonment for criticizing their dear leader, that love isn't real.
6
@KoreyD I am sure you can hear them cheering in there Tianamen square. Good luck. You will be needing it.
2
The Chinese culture may have a natural advantage to weather the suffering of pull backs by drawing upon the deeply rooted sensibilities of its still very fresh and deeply embedded agrarian roots. The Chinese people also rely upon a system of governance that has the capacity to see and respond efficiently to issues, set goals, and achieve results beyond political subdivisions. Americans, on the other hand, are suffering through political processes and a governing body that can’t seem to get anything done.
3
@Daniel Kauffman That's a lot of words to just say brutal dictatorships can control the economy better than a democracy.
You fail to mention some important variables, how their economy is based on fake money and bad loans, and how many of their kleptocrats haven't absconded with billions and trillions in offshore accounts, which effects the average Chinese citizen more than the average western citizen.
9
What goes up comes down. If you spend more than you make, you will spend less in the future. China has more empty office cubicles than its population. There are entire cities of buildings with few occupants. The pump-priming that the Chinese government performed worked, for a time. What is not mentioned in this article is the long term consequences of the one child per family policy of the past. At this point, there are not enough females who are interested in having a family to keep the population growing. Before long, the elderly will outnumber the young, and the economy will shrink (this is simply a consequence of less spending by fewer people). Ironically, the reason we in the US have not faced this - yet - is because of immigration, whose growth has offset the low fertility of its citizens.
2
Finance reform could go a long way in China. Liberalize finance a little and give people a decent return they'll open up their wallets and spend. Liberalize capital a little and workers can have better jobs at better run companies.
But most importantly create a proper safety net (that protects the people) and people will be less afraid to spend.
2
@John D Marano very god point
It's so funny that U.S. people have to make up this kind story to feel better for themselves lol
6
@Jason several things covered in this news for your attention:
1. "George Gao and Mengjie Wu are considering postponing their wedding — and forgoing a Tiffany ring in favor of something less expensive." - so this is a mid-class couple in China now - may I ask how many couples in U.S. can afford a Tiffany ring while paying off their mortgage? btw they are 30 yrs old according to this article
2. "She and her fiancé spend nearly all of their monthly paychecks — about $5,600 before taxes — to pay off loans and their mortgage, she said. But the small amount of money they spend on groceries, roughly $300." - pay attention to the money they need to spend on groceries for a decent life in China. US$300
3. "Shoppers at a new Costco, the American warehouse retailer, in the Shanghai area. They are being drawn to the store in part by lower food prices" oh yes, the "food"'s name is Moutai, a high-end Chinese premium spirit which costs at least Rmb2,500 or approx. US$350/bottle, which was sold at Costco at Rmb 1,500 only for promotion in first two days after its open
4. "The 100 biggest retailers in China have seen their sales decline sharply in recent months, according to Capital Economics". Haha yes. because all people just switch to online e-commerce. What's the top 100 biggest retailers sales growth in U.S. now?
Just look at the pictures in this article my friends - look at those faces - you think they are happy or not? Use your own judgement
3
"I will give him the choice to buy any brand". Holy cow, you call that being practical? How about just accepting his love?
5
This is a microscopic view of China's economy, but to look at a larger picture, it'll get worse.
For more than a decade, private companies in China are losing ground to state-owned ones as part of the CCP's grip of the private sector. The result is many private owners have already moved their assets out of China in case they'll be jailed and have their fortune confiscated. Statistics of capital flight over the past decade is evidence.
Plus, China's PM called on everyone to lead a frugal life and inflation drives people into frugality. These are signs for a very gloomy prospect of China's economy.
4
Here's how this thing plays out : Less spending = lesser demand for US products = higher trade deficits = more trade wars = more economic woes = lesser spending = …
Get the picture?
Unless we chuck Trump out of office.
Get the picture ?
8
So they're doing everything a concerned citizen should do. Not run out and piling on more debt to buy all the latest in bright and shiny things. Unfortunately that can't be said for Americans.
12
@Mark ... Suggestion: read Keynes.
At the age of 10 I was taken to the local bank to by U.S. Savings bonds. I have bought some bonds in the intervening 60 some years but have always saved a little bit at a time, all the time. (Same for the "other half".) Fortunately, we both are compulsive savers!
U.S. interest rates have punished us but we continue to live within our means and save. We want for nothing. Some might attribute that to luck, we attribute it foresight and savings.
Are we immune to a true economic meltdown? Probably not, but we'll get by.
3
I’m not planning on spending a dime more than I need to for the next year. I can see what’s coming down the tracks & it’s not pretty. Just praying it derails tRump.
7
Me too -My household is socking it away -rainy days are coming - these tax breaks went righ into wealthy pockets and they are socking it away too.
12
Smart people, smart culture. Had itty not been for China's austerity there would have been little money to bail out the U.S. in 2008.
If Americans would stop buying "stuff" that they don't need and start saving, the American Dream might still be a reality. The divide between rich and poor, with a declining middle class, is yet another force making us a Banana Republic. Trump and his government (and most of Wall Street) places way too much emphasis on short-term performance, quarterly earnings and conjured figures.
DON'T BUY WHAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD, SAVE, and eventually;y you'll get what you need without 20% CC fees and untenable debt.
Patience really is a virtue - old Chinese saying.
19
@RealTRUTH All this means is next crash we will all be going down in sync. US China and Europe. No growth left other than in India.
@scientella haha good luck India!
1
The west won't share its wealth with the east. When the west colonized the east, everything was fine and well. Now that the east is naturally rising and its people are demanding a better standard of living, the west will not give an inch. The west would rather go to war while they still have the upper hand militarily than compromise their own high standard of living.
11
Why doesn't Emperor Xi penalize those not spending by notching down their Social Credit Score? Maybe preventing someone from traveling for a week will open their eyes.
3
"China’s leaders are moving to get them spending again. The central government pushed out new measures in August, including discounts on big-ticket appliances."
There is no more efficient enslavement than debt.
The CPC-run PRC needs a cowed populace of indentured neo-slaves. Just as the CPA [Capitalist Parties of America]-run US does. In many ways, there's no difference between the two. Those who lust for empire need slaves to power it.
5
At least the Chinese are saving. With our low rate you would have to borrow money to put into the saving account to meet inflation.
8
Eternal economic growth is a fantasy, as Greta says.
Saving the planet will require eliminating wasteful consumption. It may involve negative growth. It will be disruptive.
Growth as a positive metric is obsolete, replaced years ago by quality of life metrics:
https://www.socialprogress.org
17
Ask yourself how many nationalities want to immigrate to Communist China? Maybe only one, the North Koreans. Then ask how many Chinese want to immigrate to America, Canada or Australia? Hundreds of millions want to and have done so. Why?
16
Hundreds of millions have done so? Try again.
2
We are the guardian of the Earth. From who are we guarding the earth? From each other. Where does cellphone and computers go when billion of people get rid of them? People tend to change cells every couple of years.
They should slow down consuming, we should slow down consuming and wasting precious resources. Consumption is not a good thing. When I was a child we all would get 1 toy for the holidays. The kids in my neighborhood get like 10 toys each at Christmas. People are in debt in this country. Credit card are maxed out. I understand some people are just getting by and use them for necessities, but others use them for luxuries, things they shouldn't have within their income range. People spend and spend and don't save. There has to be a better way!! I want the future generations to actually have a planet but I don't know if they will. Consumption is killing it. I keep my cellphones for at least 7 years. My computer the same. I try not to waste and I save. The Corporation keep getting richer from our daily sweat. Down here most people keep getting poorer. Our corporations move over sea and keep getting breaks in Tax dollars. Our tax dollars. Job creators is just a phrase to get away with this. Something has to give! We have more power than we give ourselves credit. We have our wallets. Lets put that money into savings and consume less. We might just consume our self to extinction. We need a new way to live, for us and for posterity.
14
The reporter missed half the story here. If Chinese consumers are not spending and not investing, but rather putting their money in the bank, then the biggest question is what kind of interest rates Chinese banks are paying. With inflation surging for food, Chinese consumers may be falling even further behind by stowing their cash in low-interest bank accounts.
4
True. But you cannot count these consumers intelligent in making such saving decisions. They save when they feel insecure about their future. And there are just too many reasons to feel insecure right now.
3
@AJ Lorin ---- most Chinese are not invested in the stock market, they consider it too risky. Bankers and investment firms for obvious reasons keep hammering on the concept that investment in stocks offer higher returns than GIC, ignoring the fact that MORE people lose MORE money than people making money. Trump's constant bragging of how great the u.s. stock market is relative to the Chinese one is misleading because there is much less Chinese participation in the market.
1
Pyramid schemes have exponentially more losers than winners - as a rule. If one finds themselves and their family on the bottom of the pile, exercising prudence against faith in the economic subduction grinding down the masses should be considered a act of sanity in an insane world. Most of the world's population does not live in a credit bubble, yet most will feel the pain when it bursts.
4
What goes up must also come down.
This is not only the law of gravity but reflects ancient Chinese philosophy.
China can't go up forever whether financially, as a power center or with its Chinese Communist Party dictatorship.
The USSR went up and then it crashed.
So will China.
So will America.
Welcome to reality.
5
General Motors.
Tiffanys.
Costco.
American companies.
If Trump carries on his trade war, it will not be long before the Chinese consumer boycotts these companies.
They know the source of their pain.
And lets not forget Apple and Starbucks and and and ....
3
@Arthur --- most people don't realize that America has thrown a lot at China without the desired results. On the other hand China has been very restrained and this is mistaken by trump as a sign of weakness.
2
As long as Trump is American president China has no chance to regain their economic strength. Trump wanted to destroy China and probably is going to make it. China now under the dictatorship of Xi Jinping will suffer through until 2024. But China still put up a beautiful show for celebrating the 70th anniversary of the PRC. Bo other country could do this. It must costed billions to do that. Economic slow down may be the beginning of the end of Xi Dynasty. Trump is the winner.
2
@Tysons2019 --- keep hallucinating Tyson or is it Gordon Chang???
Maybe the problem is not the individuals that choose to reject unnecessary consumption, but the economic model it is predicated on?
14
To sonnel
Isla Vista, CA4h ago , who writes
sonnel
Isla Vista, CA4h ago
The horror! People being thrifty and thoughtful with their money! Must use every marketing and psychological warfare technique (like we do in the US) to get those thrifty thoughtful to charge their credit cards up to the max without a care for the consequences!
The answer is : In a consumer driven economy, it is.
Why do you think the Fed printed all that cheap money ?
To get people to borrow and spend , like's there's no tomorrow.
7
Ah.... bad reporting here.
News flash.. citizens of China have ALWAYS been heavy savers.
In the old days, they did not even believe in credit and refused to take on debt and instead saved until they had the money to buy what they seek.. including housing. Historically, Chinese always spend within their means, and are habitual and deep savers.
In recent years.. the average Chinese consumer has begun to embrace credit and debt as the prices of consumer products continue to rise (particularly vehicles) and more consumers wish to acquire them. But they STILL save heavily while taking on debt.
15
We might be better off if all of us stopped spending beyond our means. But it would hurt consumer economies greatly because those economies depend upon our spending to grow. The problem with being urged to spend is that we're often buying things we don't need. Credit cards encourage us to spend beyond our means and then, when the inevitable job loss or other liquidity crisis occurs, there's nothing there. One reason we don't realize that so many things cost more than they are worth is because of credit cards and the very minimal payments we're asked for each month.
It seems to this commenter that the world would be a better place if we didn't buy as many things as we do.
8
@hen3ry
I agree with you... very much.
Being in debt is simply putting money in the pockets of lenders. Take the case of the average home mortgage..... over a 30 year mortgage.. you will pay out in interest 2 to 3 times the actual principal you borrowed. Think about that.. on a $500K loan.. that means you will pay back a total of $2M to the lender over the life of the loan if you do not accelerate principal payments. Which is why I paid off my home in 8 years, even though I carried a 30 year mortgage.
Debt loading on motor vehicles is no where near as bad.. becasue the loan duration is much shorter.. so more principal is paid back each month and this drives down interest earned by the lender.
But credit cards, which carry very high interest rates, and have very small minimum payment requirements ARE THE DEVIL of consumer debt.... since at minimum payments... you will never actually pay off the debt.
2
While China has the nominal #2 annual GDP on a per capita basis it ranks #80 near Bulgaria and the Dominican Republic. With 5% of humanity America has about 24% of nominal GDP. With 20% of humans China has about 6% of nominal GDP. Europe has 7% of humans and about 22% of nominal GDP.
6
@Blackmamba
What is your point here?
2
@Chuck Do the math. Despite the CCP's pomp and braggadocio, mainland's economy is on a teetering edge. If you were to bribe a communist official and offer a choice between US dollars or equivalent RMB, which suitcase do you think they'd take?
1
@Blackmamba wrong maths...China GDP is about 68% of U.S. now although per capita number is indeed still very low
If Chinese consumers want to save rather than spend, the places they put their savings are going to experience a shortage of places to invest, since the profitability of investments depends on potential spending. They are entering a feedback loop that is headed in the wrong direction.
6
@sdavidc9
You work from the assumption that investment practices in China are the same as they are here.
You are wrong.
The average Chinese citizen saves for the future... not for investment gain. They put their savings in safe places, rather then use it for speculative investment.
Oh sure.. there are some Chinese that have prolific addictions to gambling and will use the stock markets as their new gambling venue.. and many have learned that the odds are far worse then the average Casino in Macau.
3
We are all living and explotihg 1.7 of our planet's capacity. The capitalism that has fueled this consumerist expansion need a major reset, and to lower expectations of growth everywhere but more so in developed countries. Politicians need to find a way to disproportionally have the 1-2% take the biggest toll of the reset. People have to lower their expectations in a drastic. There is no planet B. China need to be an active participant in all of this as they have making leaps in consumerism that are not necessary.
10
A consumption slow-down in China would be in the best interests of the planet's sustainability and a chance for the planet to rejuvenate itself partly. Throughout their history, the Chinese have shown great resilience to bounce back from hardship of any kind and build from it, and after the coming economic shock, they'll find other ingenious ways to bounce back. But for now, they should take a break and let the earth breathe a bit easier. They'll bide their time until the declining economies and declining demographics in the West, particularly in Europe, reach a peak and then they'll jump into the frenzy again.
10
@NParry --- The Chinese consumers and all consumers must spend less for a more sustainable world!
1
The normal plateau after industrializations first rapid growth - is the point of crisis. Was in England 150 years ago, didnt work out well for Germany, but the US spared it after ours by the stimulus of the world war.
I hate to tell you all, but Trump will be rememberd not for his impeachment, the wall or stormy Daniels, but for being the first president tough enough to realise China's rise should be slowed if we want to maintain world supremacy, and not be all run from Beijing via internet trolls. In other words Trump is right on China
4
@scientella how do Trump’s policies slow growth just in China, and not in the US + other nations? I don’t follow what you’re saying here.
5
@scientella
Trump is not the first American leader to recognize that we would benefit from fair trade practices in China - but he is indeed the first to try to correct the problem by using the wrongheaded , ineffective, and counterproductive strategy of tariffs to correct problems of intellectual property theft, unfair foreign trade policies, and trade balance deficits.
Not to mention what a friend he’s made of our allies.
9
@Ted What would your solution be?
Im curious because trade has been enough to slow the chinese economy down. When their banks are leveraged at around 400% debt to equity this causes internal concern to the whole system.
Just trying to get a picture of how you would approach it.
2
Seriously, it's a problem if people actually stop spending every waking moment either earning or spending money while desecrating the planet in the process?
11
Time to change the way we think about what we value. I personally would rather have less things and more time. I haven't known anyone who in the last days of there lives wished for a new car. It's not necessarily that there are too many of us on this planet, it's that the ones that are here are consuming too much.
15
@sirina
The enertia of 7 billion humans have pushed every aspect of survivability to a point of collapse and the NYSE still makes a daily spectacle of unchecked growth with the closing bell. What is it you don't understand about finite environment.
1
I live in a community that over the last 20 to 25 years has witnessed hundreds of millions of Chinese dollars purchase properties, tear down the house, and build multimillion McMansions.
The Chinese may be purchasing fewer iPhones and keepsake mugs, but they are also not buying McMansions like they used to buy them.
For that, I blame Trump’s Chinese trade war.
4
@Arch Buying those US mcmansions is capital flight. Rebalancing of trade that tarriffs would not have allowed to be so imbalanced in the first place.
IT is another argument for tarriffs. There are many more.
The headline alone says it all. States want their citizens to be in a condition of perpetual indebtedness. They want us to consume mindlessly so they can feed the engine of continuous “growth”—the definition of which is nothing more than the rich getting richer. Next time you hear about economic indicators like this, remember that there is a worldwide conspiracy to prevent you from achieving financial independence.
46
@sedanchair It's not a conspiracy, it's just the internal logic of capitalism and its "grow or die" mentality at work. This logic requires two contradictory things: a workforce with enough time and resources for conspicuous consumption, and a highly exploited and desperate workforce that makes profit possible.
1
U.S. citizens should follow their lead. We owe tons of debt to the Chinese because we are spendthrifts and feel entitled. The Chinese are smart. They will save now and end up buying everything of value here while we blow our money on trinkets and parties. It's a true grasshopper and ant story, except they won't be as gracious as the ant was to the grasshopper. One of the things they will buy is the allegiance of our politicians. Then we'll live in an interesting world.
16
Year of the Pig. Spend only within your means, and save, save, save!
10
None of this sounds surprising to anyone who's lived through the American economic decline since 2008. As with any economy controlled by a few ultra-wealthy gatekeepers and monopolies, the drive to increase shareholders' value and avoid paying greater wages , while simultaneously trying to push a culture of material consumption, kills demand creates a negative feedback loop that aristocrat-controlled governments like China's and America's cannot deal with: wage increases are anathema to these people because it is an investment that not only doesn't yield the kind of immediate, big returns they've become addicted to, it gives workers a greater sense of Independence, and less need to rely on their bosses.
China's hopes of being a consumer driven economy are, frankly, laughable, when your average Chinese is still *far* poorer than your average European or North American, but their society demands the same things from their young people: get an expensive education, buy an expensive car, lease (you can't own) an expensive home, dump all your money on your children's education so they can compete over resources ever-more concentrated on the hands of a wealthy few. Ironically these wealthy few rely on the very consumers and workers they *really* don't wanna pay, so they'll try everything they can to get them to spend...aside from increasing wages, just like in the USA.
17
I have to question any business model that expects and requires people to spend as much as they earn, or go into debt and spend even more.
Once upon a time people were expected to put money into the banks, and the banks, being wise, would use those funds to make sound investments in the community.
Now, obviously, whatever banks are doing with the customers' savings, it is not wise investments.
Maybe the problem isn't that people are saving money -- it's that banks are squandering it on ultra-high-risk Ponzi schemes that may be coming to an end.
20
@Wade
Consumer debt in the US is largely what fuels economic results in the consumer segment of the economy. Americans are so conditioned to spend more then they earn.. it has become largely institutionalized. The result is more and more Americans are ill prepared for retirement, and in fact many remain highly leveraged in debt as they approach retirement.
The personal reform mechanics to this downward spiral is pretty simple.. spend less then you earn, and save/invest the difference.. persistently and over your life time. Doing so.. you will retire with more then enough wealth carry you through retirement. In addition... nobody over age 50 really should be in any sort of heavy debt load. But of course, most Americans are so conditioned to carrying debt.. they simply never step up and do what will make them financially independent. AND.. banks and other lenders depend on this... becasue debt is how they earn income. And governments love consumers in deep debt because it makes them more compliant and dependent on the government.
@Wade once upon a time, a poor person would stay poor for their entire lives because they did not have access to credit and therefore could not invest in education or any business venture. Credit is liberating for the poor, not enslaving.
Within a period of one generation Chinese evolved from savers to debt holders. Keep several points in mind: the banks in China as well as TenCent and Alipay have handed out credit to the 90s generation who now carry an average of 18 months income in credit. Quantitative Easing in China is immediately efficient because banks disperse cash at the governments directive, they don't shuffle it back to shareholders or management bonuses. The banks and financial firms are quite aware that the 90s generation's parents still hold assets, a simple bank click on an ID card will display tiers of family assets. Lending to the children of the middle class is a technique you can observe on incoming freshman day at any upscale university in China (and the U.S.). The kids can't cover their debts, likely never will. In China they also can't afford to purchase a house, likely never will. But Mom and Pop will raid their savings to make that happen and keep the kids from default.
What you're seeing is a calculated CCP program to unlock saved wealth to feed the domestic consumer economy accomplished by utilizing the spending habits of the new generation to crack open the piggy banks of the last generation.
28
@john : Intriguing hypothesis. How might one measure this? Are there any reliable measures of, or proxies for, inter-generational asset transfer?
@john
tradingeconomics.com
Household Saving Rate in China decreased to 36.10 percent in 2016 from 37.10 percent in 2015. Personal Savings in China averaged 33.59 percent from 1992 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 39 percent in 2010 and a record low of 27.20 percent in 2002.
www.ceicdata.com
China's Gross Savings Rate was measured at 45.7 % in Dec 2018, compared with 46.4 % in the previous year. China Gross Savings Rate is updated yearly, available from Dec 1952 to Dec 2018, with an ...
tradingeconomics.com
Household Saving Rate in the United States increased to 8.10 percent in August from 7.80 percent in July of 2019
2
@Arthur
the most interesting part of this data is that it shows that the savings rate of Chinese citizens has remained largely the same over the last 3 decades.... roughly 1/3 of income.
The only thing that has really changed is even 10 years ago.. most Chinese carried no debt... but now days.. they are falling into the debt pit that is so classic in western capitalistic models. They now finance homes, cars, phones and other expensive consumer items... but still continue to save.
Time will tell what the new debt loads on consumers in China do long term to their savings rates and other personal financial considerations.
1
The Chinese, even the younger generation who hadn’t yet experienced economic hardship, are culturally much more inclined to save rather than spend when necessary, contrary to American tendencies who view it as undeserved, something that should be avoidable in the myth of eternal growth (although the younger generation that experienced the 2008 recession appears to be much thriftier). Although ‘bad’ for the economy, less overall consumption might be very good for the planet; families may even have fewer children, overpopulation being the number 1 factor in political, economic and environmental issues.
18
@mm
The US punishes savers.
8
@Mathias
This statement is a consumer dodge.
It is poor savings choices by savers inflict self punishment.
What you are spouting here is exactly the message lenders want US consumers to embrace.. because it discourages saving.. and encourages taking on more debt.
What goes up must come down. Or, at least that’s the wait is in the physical world.
3
There was a similar uproar over the savings rate among Japanese consumers a couple decades ago. I believe the result (or at least the outcome was blamed on this) was a decade or so of stagnant growth.
I'm not sure the US has the opposite problem: cheap money fueling overconsumption, and growth in debt outpacing growth in production of goods.
4
This was an inevitable outcome after decades of debt fueled growth, especially after the world recession in 2007-8.China's overall debt went from $7 trillion to over $30 Trillion from 2007-2016 , and it's still growing.
Unfortunately for them, this also comes at a time, as this article shows, that growth is slowing dramatically, and the world is wising up to the fact that the "Belt and Road" initiative is a just a ploy to get neighboring countries in a debt trap to their Chinese masters.
The coup -de -grace is the trade war with us , which, though I absolutely loathe Trump, is finally holding the Chinese accountable for all their economic bullying and outright theft.
32
@Mark
BRI is a debt trap but it’s more - China’s most fatal flaw is its unsustainable indebtedness coupled with massive overcapacity of its industries, especially its heavy industries dominated by stated-owned mega companies. That is why it must pursue mega projects in the Third World and drown it in debt. It uses its idle Chinese labor and excess capacity to hide its incompetence. The slack and terrible planning that caused it needs to be camouflaged from its people. Take away the BRI and the house of cards crashes.
14
The horror! People being thrifty and thoughtful with their money! Must use every marketing and psychological warfare technique (like we do in the US) to get those thrifty thoughtful to charge their credit cards up to the max without a care for the consequences!
78
Well demolished, sonnel !
Oh the horror of human thrift !
2
@sonnel
and thus we finally figure out why China outcompetes the US on the economic stage.
2
This is a very big deal. China must transfer from export-driven to consumer-driven economic growth. They are way to big to remain export-driven - and unlike Germany they don't have a currency union with weaker countries to exploit. You cannot become an industrialized superpower without transferring to consumer-driven economic growth. They used Trump to get a trade war that would "excuse" their leadership from blame for the pain associated with that transformation. However, they failed to understand that the fear of that external enemy could block the consumption that was supposed to pick up the slack. It would seem that now Xi and Trump both have an incentive to turn down the heat on trade war. Look forward to a truce or "deal" that changes nothing but can be declared "victory" by both (just like NAFTA2).
12
The legitimacy of the Chinese govt is not in any danger. Every intelligent person in the world, from China to the United States, knows that Donald Trump is the single individual most responsible for causing the world economic downturn. Look at him and one sees the embodiment of American decline.
Who will lead the world once the US has faded itself into a second-rate power by midcentury? The Chinese know the answer.
66
@Tim
Xi and his CCP, Trump and his GOP, share the same hubris and both will crash hard. Do not conflate Trump with America, nor Xi with China. That is a mistake, watch the rift. We will get rid of Trump and the rotten GOP, the Chinese will rid themselves of Xi and the CCP. Both nations will learn an important lesson and the world will rejoice.
15
@Charlie Chan
You are so right.
Xi is almost as bad as Mao, whom he loves.
The greatest enemy of China are people like Mao and Xi who use fake nationalism to get people to do what they want.
8
@Tim
People in other countries want to emulate the Chinese about as much as they want to learn Chinese, where the most basic set of characters numbers 2600. The act of a child having to sit and memorize such a large body of symbols has already prepared them for the servitude ahead.
1
As China's currency continues to decline inflation will exert itself there and the consumers will further retrench. As for the ring the couple decided not to buy from Tiffany, that was a smart choice as Tiffany is vastly overpriced for such commodity items as a diamond ring. A smart buyer can save 50% over Tiffany's asking price for a diamond wedding ring by shopping elsewhere or simply forgoing the needless thing.
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@Robert
But it wouldn't be Tiffany.
Pork is a major staple of the Chinese diet. A swine virus has wiped out half the pigs in China, driving up pork prices. And with fewer pigs, there is less demand for animal feed. The soybeans the Chinese imported from the USA were largely used for animal feed. Thus, tariffs or no tariffs, the Chinese would have less disposable income, and less market demand for soybeans.
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