The co-op is cool and all. But here's what I do, not sure if they've heard of this: I pay a little more for my groceries so that someone else can earn money stocking shelves and checking out customers. Works great!
18
What happened? The co-op workers didn't support unionising. I'd say the headline is misleading.
Furthermore, the examples of management anti-union obstruction described at the end of the article has nothing to do with the co-op. From all appearances the Park Slope co-op management didn't engage in these practices.
24
Sounds like they already are a union, only without outside interference. Just add whatever else that it needs to make it stronger and more supportive. All in favor raise your hand and say I. Rotating the group chairperson, not mentioned, works pretty well.
10
People who make the Statement Unions are not that good have no understanding of Unions. Most workers are" At
Will" workers, Workers get a paycheck but have no recourse unless a law was broken. I was a Union Rep for 21 years. I've seen managers do things like change someone shift knowing the employee had a second job, and did it as retaliation. Had it not been for a Union that worker would have to make a decision of which job to keep. Not all workers are Saints and neither all Employers. Having a union with a Contract gives workers a voice.
21
As a liberal Democrat I think I'm Progressive,but not sure actually what the definition is. I worked all my life, never found it necessary to join a Union, and my opinion of Unions isn't that good.
Probably because of my age, I remember distinctly how many Union bosses were close to being criminal.
Having said that, there has to be a national minimum wage that is enough to make a living possible, national health care that is affordable, at a minimum.
No matter how good a company's personnel policies are, or how well they treat their employees, no doubt there are always a few employees who will be unhappy.
6
My husband is in an union and I’m not. I have a good white collar job with an international company based in the U.S. The. benefits of being in a union vs not are pretty clear when you compare our jobs. His health benefits are amazing compared to those offered by my company, low deductible and insurance costs are per family unit. He has a pension, annuity and 401k plan, me just 401k. I’ve made it through 5 rounds of layoffs over past 10 years - dept down to 2 from 8. I’m completely overworked and stressed every day. Expected to work as late as needed every night (can never make any plans because never know how late I’ll need to work) and come in on weekends. He has a set work schedule. Unions protect your rights, negotiate fair wages and health benefits. The corporate media has done a great job of indoctrinating people to believe that unions are not needed.
47
@Chantal - We all have different backgrounds and stories. I'm glad your husband has such good benefits.
Some pension plans have been robbed by union bosses in the past, and some state pension plans have gone bust.
8
Hey, as a poor benighted non liberal, I couldn’t figure out the problem? What was the article supposed to tell us? Other than, the black worker thought he was a victim of racism because some people grabbed bagels with their bare hands. Much ado about nada.
23
@Tim Dowd enjoying your white privilege I see tim. Racial discrimination is not much Ado about nothing unless you like white supremacy. Now whether unionizing is the right answer is a different question.
10
@Tim Dowd_You have no idea. When I met my wife 11 years ago she had been living in Brooklyn for 20 years and had been a member of the Park Slope Food Coop for just as long. It may be the MOST annoying place in this world. Fortunately, she saw the light, married me, and moved to NJ where we keep it real. She still works for a leftist organization in NYC and commutes daily.
14
Must be that time a year. The annual Park Slope Coop piece neatly bookends the “The Catskills are the new Hamptons”. Isn’t there any other NEW interesting things to discuss?
24
Someone please explain how (presumably white) entitlement relates to sticking one’s hand in the bagel bin instead of using the tongs?
11
@Jasper McWilliams tongs? What a great idea! Maybe someday someone will suggest that and the members will vote for it and there will be tongs for the bagels instead of sometimes wax paper and sometimes plastic bags and sometimes nada.
1
As a former union organizer, I have to say that the disconnect in this instance is mostly between the facts on the ground and the broader claim made by the Times. The sub-headline claims there’s a disconnect between progressives and organized labor. As it turns out, the workers at Park Slope Food Coop don’t even want a union. The Times should find a better example to support its broader claim.
That said, I do think the Coop should replace the “at will” employment policy (which permits termination for no reason) with something more humane and just. I also think Mr. Thompson might be better off if he didn't work so close to the bagel bin.
23
@An American Expat
private sector companis in "at will" employment states have processes in place for firing employees, they rarely if ever fire someone immediately. the process generally involves verbal counseling with the employee, if that doesnt work then a written notice, followed by a PIP, Perfomance Improvement Plan and if the final is termination for failure to successfully complete the PIP.
8
@pak152
That "at will" termination process is not always the case, and certainly is not the case in every state. The organization, whether a private company or a non-profit or a coop, can have (and ought to have) a written policy establishing such a process.
8
No one should have to write a critical piece on the Park Slope Food Coop while at the same time keeping a straight face. Taken as a grocery store that caters mainly to the expensive tastes of the upper-middle class, it is fine for what it is. But the minute "wokeness" takes the fore, it quickly becomes a parody of itself. Anti-racism training to buy groceries? See what I mean?
21
The paid workers at the coop are the wackiest nastiest bunch I've ever been around, at any company. The unpaid ones are treated awfully, except by their fellow unpaid shift workers.
You get no direction from the paid staff, but lest you make a mistake they are in your face.
After putting up with this nonsense for a while, I decided it was time to leave. I don't think a union would ever work at this place, as the term denotes getting along, and their is no unity there. Only the quality and pricing of the food makes it worthwhile, for those who live nearby.
11
Amen.
2
Does this mean if I’m late for my work shift a fourth, fifth, and sixth time I can file grievances over the microaggression du jour and remain in the coop forever?!
11
@Matthew_As long as you work off all of your shift demerits.
1
They should hire a communications and team building consultant. It would be money very well spent. Seems like things got gummed up somewhere in the workplace dynamic. Doesn’t take a remote, 3rd party headquartered somewhere else to fix things in every work environment. Could you imagine a rubber room for bad Coop members who they couldn’t let go of? Too funny. Would it be next to the horrible teachers rubber room?
2
The problem with Unions in New York is that they are controlled and run by organized crime for the benefit of organized crime.
3
My rage over this hypocrisy may just make me regurgitate the micro-greens, artisinal beets and kombucha tea I consumed.
10
The Progressives of the past have nothing in common with the snowflakes of today.
In the past Progressives were all about helping mankind. Todays snowflakes, calling themselves progressive, are simply out for themselves. They are more interested in getting their Facebook likes than anything else.
8
Jungian moment here vis-à-vis Madison, WI Willy Street Co-op. Maybe "almost parallel universe" is a better lead. Our long standing and growing co-op here recently did choose to unionize.
https://madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/willy-street-co-op-workers-vote-overwhelmingly-for-a-union/article_f98999ef-80c0-55a2-9986-19fe78a0e33f.html
This Times story explains the subtlety of whether or not unions are a benefit to co-op. The 1.7 max min wage ratio is insightful. Secondly, like the lead of the Times story, I too find the letters in our local newsletter, entertaining, in an admittedly, guilty pleasure sort of way.
4
Gee...the NY Times is right on schedule. It's the annual let's bash the Park Slope Food Coop (PSFC) article...though, I'll admit, Bellafante's article is a bit nicer than usual.
This is non story. If the coop workers vote to form a union, there will be a union.
But more to the point and what non PSFC members should know is that people belong to this coop because the savings are huge, the produce is excellent and the quality of food overall can't be beat. My partner and I sat down one day and figured out that over the 30 years we've been members, we've saved somewhere in the neighborhood of $80,000 in food costs. We eat healthy and well. The 5.5 hours we work over the course of the month seems a small price to pay for savings which have helped us live comfortably in an otherwise very expensive city.
Are there problems? Sure. But generally people are, dare I say this, cooperative and the place works. If it didn't it wouldn't have 17,000 members.
32
The problem is that "progressives" may be very progressive on social issues (i.e., abortion, gay rights etc.) but may be very conservative as regards worker's and union's rights. This is one of the problems of the Democratic party in general; while the party espouses abortion and gay rights, with the exception of people like Sanders and Warren, and organizations such as the DSA, it is all too busy doing the bidding of corporate America. Hence, Obamas's decision to save the banks and throw underwater mortgage holders under the bus. Then they wonder why the working class abandons them.....
11
In the end, it is the employees who decide; not the co-op managers, not the co-op members, not the readers of this story. If the workers decide they want a union, they should have one. That is morally correct and it is the law. Of course, this is stretched and pushed by management to try and discourage it as much as possible - sometimes even coerced! In the end, it comes down to only one question; "Do the employees have input into their own destiny, or not?" The same question comes up in other areas of life; do tenants have rights? do patients have rights? do residents have rights? do drivers have rights? Do strap-hangers have rights? do members of (any organization) have rights? The answer is "YES." Anyone who thinks that qualifying factors diminish the rights of the workers is mistaken.
The workers have the right to participate - not just as robots who mindlessly carry out orders from above, but as actual thinking, feeling beings. Their complaint might have nothing to do with wages and benefits. It may have to do with workflow decisions, support from management, or even "just cause" discipline. Outsiders, such as those of us who are commenting, have no real understanding of what the workers might think about that. And as such, we have no standing to dictate if they should have a union or not. Neither does the coop management nor its members. Only the workers know.
15
Yep.
3
There was a vote. The process worked. I would hate to work at that place now. It sounds like people threw a nuke into a hurricane. Two things to note: thirty-year managers make less than twice that of the new non-managers. Wow. Free health insurance. There’s no comparison between universities and a food co-op but maybe a union that was itself more progressive like UAW 2110 that represents the university faculties would have handled things with less acrimony. But full disclosure: In my less enlightened days, I did take a bagel from the top of the bin without a napkin, as long as I didn’t touch the other bagels. I promise it will never happen again.
10
I have no familiarity with this particular co-op, but it is a myth that unions are only appropriate in for-profit institutions. Nonprofit organizing is gaining new steam and will only continue to grow - and for good reason. Employees on the ground are often more in tune with what is needed for an organization to function and provide a necessary check to the interests of donors and the elites in the top management and board positions. Unionization can be about more salary and benefits - it's about providing employees with enough job security to safely speak up.
11
My first thought would be a mediator. I think a valued group of coworkers would be worth that.
6
The great labor leader, Frank Rosen of the UE once said, "Wherever there are 3 people working, 2 of them better organize themselves into a union if for no other reason than to prevent petty tyranny ."
The UE, although originally a factory workers' organization, recently won an election to represent the hundreds of workers at the Willy Street Co-Op in Madison . They won by a huge majority.
10
The assumption that we can "all get along" if only we can identify the precise way of organizing ourselves flies in the face of our evolution as a species and our history.
Conflict is built into our DNA. Once you admit that, life becomes a lot easier to tolerate.
8
Two thoughts: First, there should be an election and staff should be able to vote their preference. Until that point statements about “majorities of workers think/believe” are meaningless. Second, don’t discount race and privilege when talking about food coops. It is plausible that these factor into decision making, management practices and worker/ member relationships. It is a food coop, a wonderful place, but not utopia.
14
Co-ops are formed by groups of like-minded people who have common interests and share certain values, and in this case want to improve the quality of food in their community. Usually co-opers are people who either by birth or achievement have achieved a certain status or economic stability along with an entrepreneurial spirit. As their enterprise grew it was no longer possible to depend entirely on members to fill workload and outsiders were hired, and true to their liberal spirit they paid well above minimum wage plus benefits. For the most part co-opers are educated, solvent and aware in the sense that they recognize the need to make sure outside workers are treated fairly even though not viewed as participants. This is not a regular for-profit business but one that was founded in a spirit of cooperation. The union seeking workers don't share this ethos because they are not so comfortable and at the striving stages in their lives. The issue here is really class. Mr. Thompson wants more control because he has the title "manager" and wishes to exercise prerogatives his title suggests. But it is still the co-op or its representatives that make the decisions. He is simply not part of that process to any real extent because its a co-op and there are enough co-opers with ideas of how to run things. Workers can certainly make suggestions but in the end the co-op board runs the business. Union interference is anathema to such laissez faire sentiments. Aldi's might be a better fit!
12
"Progressive" in the past decade has come to mean something altogether different from what that term meant for the vast majority of the 20th century. How many shoppers/members at these co-ops are members of unions, or have family members who are members of unions or members of the working class?
27
I live in Ashland , OR, a liberal bubble with one of the world's best food co-ops. The management of the co-op fought against unionization and won. I found it hard to believe at the time that all these so-called progressives could be so opposed to organized labor but their seems to be some odd disconnect among a whole lot of liberals that basically says, we ARE NOT all in this together. As far as I am concerned it is completely messed up.
25
Welcome to Park Slope and liberal NY where many of us don’t practice our politics. Further proof can be garnered from our extremely sad and segregated school system. We are inclusive and progressive but only when it doesn’t impact our backyard.
18
I fully support unions in for profit business- but sorry folks this is a coop and the people who signed up for this format knew exactly what was the deal. To now come back and demand basically tenured jobs is completely out of line.
If that’s the type of environment you want to work in, you should get a job in the grocery department at Walmart.
17
@Steven: But it sounds like these are a special category of worker; not co-op members working as part of their membership, but actual full-time paid workers, covering jobs that presumably need more continuity than would be provided by volunteer members. In important ways, their work day is probably not that different than if they were working at a conventional supermarket. Except that shoppers feel entitled to reach into the bagel barrel...
A key point here seems to be that the majority of paid workers are happy without a union. Even so, it would be worth paying attention to what unions might have to offer, which ones might be more or less appropriate and so on. I know of a small business that encouraged its workers to unionize, because for some reason it made things run more smoothly.
16
@John Bergstrom in fact the PSFC has more protections and process for members than it does for paid staff. If a member is accused of theft, there is a committee that reviews the information, presents it to a meeting of members and then votes on a variety of potential actions. From what has been described, paid staff are not offered any similar process - senior staff make the decision. So paid workers are a separate “class” from members.
10
@Paul T. Why would paid workers not be a different class from members? Of course process will be different for the paid staff and the members, the relationship between members and the organization is totally different from that of the paid workers and the organization.
The best way to think of the co-op is like a green, non-profit country club.
5
I have never worked for a Union job. But as I get older, I can appreciate the protection the Union could offer me. My work ethic is still strong. But my back, legs, elbows are not. I still work 10 to 12hr days. But I do find myself asking for help moving heavy objects around the warehouse from younger workers. If the Union wants to back a candidate I dont agree with, that's ok. As long as the Union will fight for my right to work. Everyone has bills to pay. Always rember that.
40
While it does on its face seem like a funny own the libs type story, I think the co-op is a pretty bad candidate for unionization, given that it has a tiny group of workers who apparently are paid well above the market rate already. It's unclear what they would gain from unionization here, but it would add massive bureaucratic hurdles to do anything in the future with the structure and functioning of the co op.
22
Unions. We need them. We just have to remember that Jimmy Hoffas body was never found and NYC was almost bankrupt until Reagan showed up, dismantled the Air Traffic Controllers Union and the economy took off.
Nevertheless. Something has to balance the same negative tendencies to self-serving that exist at the top of the pile.
6
@HT The air traffic controllers went on illegal strike and Regan fired them. That is when large corporation figured out the Feds interfere if they wanted to dump their employees and move plants to the anti-union South. That started the downward spiral of moving to the cheapest labor possible.
14
@HT
NYC went almost bankrupt because the tax base dried up as manufacturers and the middle class fled the city. And the city was still a mess during the Reagan (and Ed Koch) years, only to take off during the (yikes!) Giuliani years as a result of global finance and a huge influx of very productive and educated immigrants into the city, particularly after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
19
@HT
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but not your own set of facts....
Fact: NYC went almost bankrupt in 1975 because the city had been talked into issuing "good faith" bonds, during the late 50's to the mid 60's with no designated tax revenue to back them. When they came due, the city almost defaulted. Interesting the man behind the idea of these bonds was none other than John Mitchell.
Fact: The municipal unions bailed the city out with their pension funds and a moratorium on wage hikes, I know because my salary was frozen for 5 years.
The city was able to issue Municipal Assistance Bonds ("Big MACS"), which the union pension funds agreed to purchase after the federal government refused to help the city ("Ford to City 'Drop Dead").
As a result, the city never went bankrupt, and the unions contribution ultimately made money for the pension funds. (Which I am enjoying today....while others exhibit "pension envy" whenever the subject arises)
30
The food coop in my area had a union election a couple of years ago. The union lost, 70 opposed, 31 in favor.
9
What went wrong is that in the end, rich people end up acting the same way regardless of their political affiliation.
I am a proud liberal, and it often seems that my fellow liberals believe that their liberal values should only be imposed on other people. When my daughter started school and I joined the PTA, it was disheartening to see so my Park Slope parents fight to keep the schools segregated (PS 321 is nearly all white and Asian) while preaching that other cities should integrate.
43
@Sallie
What rich people are that you're referring to? The article states that the coop management are only making at most 1.7x the salary of the average worker, and everyone gets great benefits.
15
@MJ There is zero chance that the rich customer base is making only 1.7x the salary.
5
If you send your children into a work situation, you’ll make sure they have all they need to do a good job, right? Everything from a good lunch to proper training, tools, safety equipment and you’ll even make sure they’ll have breaks during the day. That’s what unions do. They make sure the employer doesn’t skimp on these things, because, unfortunately, humans can be quite awful at times, especially the money grubbing ones!
Of course, unions have their own issues. Sometimes one wonders if unions also need unions for their workers too! I should know, my mom was a union rep most of her life!
We can take a comparative journey around the globe to see the ultimate unions:
Countries like Saudi Arabia are what you get under feudalism: No rights, no protections, just judgement. Your “freedom” is just a bone-saw away!
In China you get the ultimate union job; only this time, the union is the government, so when they make a mistake, which we all do as humans, there’s no union above that to take your grievances to. Sounds kinda wacko! And it is—just look at Hong Kong today.
What about sublime capitalism? Sheeeaaat! We all know how bad 100% pure capitalism can be. One day when J. B. of A. (that rich internet company guy) takes his trillions on a rocket ship to Mars, what will he find there when he lands in victory? He’ll step onto that fine sand which is the bones of his warehouse workers whom Sen. Bernie Sanders was trying to help!
Germany is the compromise, the melding of it all.
18
Buried in this article was a mention of at-will, no reason needed dismissal. Even universities and medical centers today feature obligated at-will appointments. But probably all organizations site their allignment with diversity and anit-discrimination policies. Couldn't an at-will, no reason necessary dismissal offer the perfect opportunity for covert discrimination? No wonder a union contract with dismissal terms makes sense.
21
There's a vital distinction this article actively fails to note. The Center for American Progress is indeed a "neo-liberal" institution. Its funders include Citibank, Walmart, Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs and it organizes itself on the corporate model. Small wonder CAP is hostile to unions.
The only thing CAP has in common with The Food Coop, is that some associated with both call themselves liberals. Beyond that, any similarity is pure fiction.
21
Correct, no one is immune from self interest. Maybe Mother Teresa is, but then again, maybe she was really only trying to look good to be closer to God. A co-op should be allowed to take care of its own business and also should not hire people who are not members and make sure membership is explained if a member becomes a worker.
3
I’ve been a member of the Coop for more than 12 years. It’s a unique and wonderful place. I’m sorry that Mr. Thompson feels that he has been discriminated against there. But the bagel issue he described resonated with me as an example of not a big deal and certainly nothing to do with racial bias. I don’t know if he’s the same man who yelled at me once for touching a bagel with my bare hands, but that did happen to me once. I said I waould be buying every one I touched, but that didn’t satisfy him. The person overreacted, saying if the Health Dept. saw me do that the Coop could go out of business. I love the place, but people can be overly sensitive.
23
@Madeleine Nash Member since 1993 here ... I leave it to the staff to decide whether they want to be unionized, but -- well, no, I am not a fan of people reaching into grocery store food bins with uncovered hands, and I appreciate the staff member's effort to stop you.
And, second, as a lifelong feminist, I can't count the number of times I've heard men tell me I was "overly sensitive" when I reacted negatively to some sexist or misogynist remark. My guess is that if an African American person smells bias, there's bias to be smelled. Remember, it needn't be conscious or intentional, right?
67
Everyone is treated unfairly sometimes, and if you see yourself (perhaps correctly) as part of a group that is generally treated unfairly more often than average, it’s easy to attribute things to a bias even when there is none. I’ve seen it happen over and over, ever since my first Summer job for an NYC-based TV company where a guy wasn’t hired and was certain it was because he was Jewish, but he didn’t realize that a very high percentage of the team, including all of the decision makers, was also Jewish, so it was pretty unlikely.
7
@Madeleine Nash I'm amazed the store has a bagel bin that is accessible to bare handed customers. That bin should have a cover.
7
If you get more than 1 person in a group you will get conflict eventually. Sounds as if these folks have an enviable work environment.
18
When the binary approach to a work site is divided between workers and management, there will always be friction. Because the two groups have different agendas, concerns, and strategies. The Coop in Berkeley flourished for a long time, then failed. While the union wasn't the only reason the Berkeley Coop failed, it was a significant factor. It's gone now, as are the jobs that helped many people. But the binary approach creates friction and conflicts that threaten the viability of any organization.
Management of any similar organization needs the workers in management and workers have to accept some of the risk of the business profitability. Reality over theory.
6
Do unions have unions? That sort of what this situations sounds like can happen, in a way. I presume any organization, regardless of how egalitarian it is will have, in practice, strained relations between the workers and management, even if the workers themselves appoint the management team. Maybe instead of a formal union, where outsiders would affect the spirit of the organization and dues would be not insignificant for workers ($27 an hour in NYC is very low) a grievance board made up equally of management and workers could arbitrate issues that are causing conflict.
2
@FXQ
Unions are unions of representatives of a union of workers and it would surprise me if the people who maintain union facilities and work the daily clerical jobs at the union offices are not unionized--good question.
Yes, the staff of labor unions, particularly large ones, often unionize themselves.
6
@FXQ
Yes, they do. My wife runs a dental clinic that serves unionized nonuniformed municipal workers. Because they do not work directly for the union, they are unionized in a different union. A few years back, the doctors voted to unionize, too.
7
I don't understand why the media has to bash this coop so regularly. It's lazy journalism.
The coop is entirely worker-owned and operated, and it runs remarkably well considering it now services 17K members. It provides good, inexpensive food to all those willing to put in their 2.75 hours every four weeks. The article clearly states that most staff did not want to unionize, probably because they're happy with their fair pay and good benefits, not because they're anti-union or somehow duped into opposition.
What's the issue here, and why is that newsworthy?
31
@Mas Did you read the article? A worker of color described the discriminatory treatment he is getting...
13
@Mas-DId you read the article? They are not "bashing" the coop, merely asking why a coop that claims to be liberal and worker friendly is against its workers for a union.
7
@stuckincali: I think technically he mentioned discriminatory treatment, but he didn't describe it in the sense of giving examples. (Of course, his words were given as reported in the story, he certainly would have said more to the reporter.) But you're right, he did mention it, and it's a very important issue, and probably should have gotten more coverage.
3
Unions, like so many organizations, started off as a necessary means to control rober capitalism and exploitation. Gradually, many of them have become cloying, self-centered, profit-making enterprises tithing the workers and determining the same workers’ benefits and work processes. Occasionally unions have had Mob ties. To some degree this has happened because US Federal law has the 50%+1 rule for bringing a union into a workplace. Once in, the union becomes a monopolist of sorts. In Germany, for example, multiple unions can pitch for represented employees in a work place and 9only those employees that want a specific union need join that one. They also can leave if the union doesn’t demonstrate value. Competition is a good thing.
17
Everyone loves grand ideas - until it affects their bottom line.
12
@skater242 The Coop's only nominally a for-profit. Try again.
5
@Jolanta: Right. Careless cynicism can be just as wrong as blind naivete.
While I am a strong supporter of unions and unionzation, I can't help but feel that workers everywhere would be better off if they had the problems these employees do, and not the ones they currently face.
13
Yes,this fissure between labor and "hippies" dates back to the Vietnam war era. The author is correct; it has never been repaired. The South loved it, along with the businesses. Union leadership ,and membership never adapted. Many union members have been voting against their own interests for decades: Reagan,Bushes, McCain. Single mothers flooding the workforce were welcomed with open arms and low wages. Even a bad union is better than no union,though.
11
What needs to happen is for Uber, Lyft, and other such raw naked greedy gig economy businesses, to be cooperatives. Somehow I doubt that Dara Khosrowshahi would be willing to earn only 1.8 times what one of his drivers makes.
29
@Laughingdog I'd like to see city co-operatives, using GPS, but with the proviso that drivers HAVE to take the assignment no matter where it is. That was the problem with the taxi system (at least in SF). Drivers were/are independent contractors who, though supposed to serve the city through the medallion, never did in actuality. All they wanted was to serve tourists and take long drives to and from the airport.
Park Slope, the Beverly Hills of Brooklyn.
21
@fast/furious
FYI I am a co op member and I don't live in Park Slope I live in a neighborhood that no one would call the Beverly Hills of Brooklyn but I am a member because the food is really good and as much as 150% cheaper than the average Brooklyn grocery store.
24
@Andy I often wonder how food coops do it...I thought supermarkets were about economies of scale.
1
@fast/furious Have you ever even been here? Or Beverly Hills for that matter? I lived in not one, but TWO of the most disgusting apartments, with the worst landlords, with the most days of no heat or hot water on the coldest days of winter, and paid 3x the money to do so, of any other apartments I've lived in for the last 35 years. Great neighborhood, though.
2
Embarrassing but not unsurprising. Here in upstate NY, there is a food co-op in Albany and management is notorious for mouthing liberal platitudes but finding reasons to fire people who have tried organizing a union over the years. There is a class struggle and exploitation within the co-op as much as there is at any other capitalist enterprise, which is surely is. If you want a real co-op you need a worker-owned and operated one, not a "member" co-op which is essentially petty-bourgeois liberals who want access to their specialty products and a brutal management that knows how to speak those platitudes. I wish the union organizers luck.
25
@Greenguy It is a completely worker-owned and operated coop. No one can shop who doesn't work there.
16
So they are elitist as well as greedy. Got it.
7
@skater242 No, membership is open to all. It's quite the opposite of elitist.
15
The association of food coops with progressiv e politics is misleading. Coops are indeed historically associated with both labor unions and progressive politics. But they are also associated with affluent upper middle class consumerism. Coop members may tend to be "socially liberal" but politically conservative and libertarian anti-Zionist ideology is frequently a large part of the mix.
Politically progressive coop members must struggle to make coops friendly and fair to their workers and pro-union.
10
@Benjamin ben-baruch
SORRY for the autocomplete. I wrote "anti-labor union" which was autompleted completely inappropriately. I corrected the error rewriting "anti-labor" and assumed my correction was accepted by my tablet. Apparently it wasn't and I am deeply embarassed.
This article is about this particular place, which seems not perfect but pretty darn benign. To compare it to companies where managers make a fortune and treat their employees like dirt is ridiculous. If problems can be solved without involving a giant outside organization that is surely the best for everyone. Let the employees judge and don't try to shame them for their choice.
24
Politicians and activists may pander to unions, but no one really likes them. They are especially disliked when most everyone else feels downward wage pressure then wonders if they are being bilked by high prices as consumers.
It is just not an arrangement that works well, other than in perhaps some very specialized professions, when a small percentage of workers have a union but most do not.
3
I have been in two unions, Retail Clerks in high school and the Teamsters during college. The Teamsters job paid me enough during the summer months so that I could finance my own college tuition and room & board during the rest of the school year. I made more money working as a Teamster than I dud after college, for some years.
I always wonder why so many people hate unions so much. Younger people in particular have a poor perception of unions, which is funny because most have no experience with unions.
When I moved to Brooklyn in 2002, I went to the Park Slope Food Coop orientation meeting to decide if I should become a member. I had been a member of PCC (Puget Consumers Coop) in Seattle for many years. After the meeting, I knew immediately I would never join. The nonsense was so evident, and the silliness of much of the work so extreme, I instead opted for Fresh Direct. I never regretted my decision. But some of the PSFC members who lived in my coop apartment would criticize my family for using Fresh Direct, and act holier than though to all.
Eventually, 75 % of my building was using Fresh Direct. The PSFC diehard members continued onwards, in bright yellow vests, helping perfectly capable persons to push their shopping carts 20 blocks from the coop in 10 degree weather, rain & snow, and then walk back to the coop looking so goofy and cold and wet and redundant.
What was the point?
Did your mocking of others make this a better world?
13
@Matt A
And what about your own mocking?
14
@Matt A Almost no one gets a well-paid union job while in college without some sort of leverage--a relative who's a higher up in the union, for example. Unions are rife with nepotism and cronyism, and that's one reason people dislike them.
1
People who think progressive socialists and organized labor in America are aligned (or should be) are ignorant beyond belief.
Organized labor in this country believes in America, hard work, the 2nd amendment, strong borders, strong military, beef, job growth, energy independence, hard-won insurance benefits, trucks!
Progressive socialists believe in ‘a minimum income even if unwilling to work, open borders, confiscating guns, wind power, Prius, plant based diets, taxes, Medicare for all, free everything for immigrants.
It is not rocket science, y’all. These two don’t mix.
16
This is a really ignorant and condescending attack, and you truly lost me when you said “progressive socialists” were for free everything for immigrants. Do you actually believe that? What a fatuous stereotype.
26
Thanks for setting us all straight on that.
2
@D. Stein: That myth about free stuff for immigrants is persistent on the right.
4
"Mr. Thompson would also like to see the staff become more diversified, and he would like to see everyone receive 'anti-racism training.' "
That would be interesting. Would those in attendance readily cop to being "privileged"?
One thing that would help would be to have the attendees pretend they are proxies for folks in flyover country. Then they'd probably eagerly admit to their xenophobia and racism. They may even speak out against racial segregation in public schools.
Then playtime would be over and they could go back to be sophisticated residents of NYC.
12
Organized Labor does not always click with those who are normally their allies and advocates. If corporate employers easily convince the Union leaders that leftist or environmental issues are at odds with their interests, then it's all over for the grand alliance. We have seen cases where organized labor, including the teacher's unions, will pimp for industry on state referendums such as cyanide heap leach mining bans, utility deregulation and public-power initiatives. Shameful, indeed.
2
I think labor and progressives need to get together in 2020. There will be disagreements because progressives represent the interests of the poor and labor primarily the middle class. However, there is a lot to agree on. Traditionally, politicians have played to the interests of the middle class while completely forgetting the poor. I think what we're seeing is a recognition of that and hopefully the two wings can mend fences before the moment of truth.
5
It’s actually kind of amazing that you can have a grocery store serving 17,000 members with only 75 paid staff earning high wages with great benefits. I’m sure they’ll figure it all out.
5
It’s possible because all 17,000 actually work more than two hours every four weeks.
13
Just as a coop is not necessarily an exemplar of collectivist justice, neither is a union. Either could be, I suppose, but let’s not assume and therefore romanticize either.
16
I want shade grown rainforest coffee harvested by elderly retired angels who formerly danced on the head of a pin and I will drive fifty miles in my suv to get it.
76
@Allan Trust me, someone is totally invested in getting you exactly what you want even if it makes life impossible for their coworkers. I had a chef once and I made up a motto for him. "The impossible is possible when you delegate." And trust me a gig economy driver will deliver it to you.
16
You don’t live in Brooklyn. Hardly any one drives...and 15 miles would likely take an hour and a half and take you well out of the city.... comment in which you know....
12
@Sean You're right. I just live in San Francisco where we grew by a 100k people. Our city is 11 x 11 miles. And driving to where I used to drive which used to take me 15 min now takes me 45 min to an hour. So tell me again about things I should know about. Also my comment was facetious at best.
4
Both labor unions, and cooperatives as a form of enterprise, developed as responses to capitalism. That's not to say thought whether one is needed at the Coop.
5
It’s the other way around: Capitalism was a response to coops and unions.
There is absolutely nothing that requires workers wanting a voice in their working conditions to affiliate with a larger union. There are, and have always been, shop unions and single shop labor agreements.
Labor relations can be very flexible and suited to each individual set of circumstances; they can also be very inflexible and apply the same standards to very large groups.
The simple fact is that whatever workers and employers can agree to can be put in place under our labor laws.
19
i would never belong to a union where i have to pay union dues which in reality I am giving someone some of my hard earned salary to someone else who isn't even working. What a con a union is.
Giving % of my pay for them to do what? Nothing. Biggest scam out there.
16
What you get in return is the power of having a group of other employees that stands with you when you negotiate with your employer over your pay, or the safety of your working conditions, or what happens when you're too old to work.
49
@N
yes, and . . .
the peace of mind that if you suddenly are without income, there are funds to help smooth the way, or in many cases, access to better/more affordable healthcare.
17
@Lee
If you have a grievance there is a system in place to handle the circumstance. This includes negotiated contracts. My union dues are $16 a month. I have filed two grievances and won both after talk went nowhere with my manager. It’s a bargain to have an attorney in my corner for that price.
31
Glad to hear a huge majority in favor of keeping things as they are. Godspeed Mr Holtz and team!
13
I remember when Park Slope was an integrated neighborhood. We used to shop there and we had no issues. As the area became more white and privileged everything changed. The customers and a few of the employee were entitled to act in any way they wanted. The customers looked down on the employees It moved from a warm environment to shop to a transactional negative experience.
34
It's the Manhattanization of Brooklyn. By that, I mean the uber-wealthy who are residents of several places but citizens of nowhere. Some people don't know what makes a community, or they don't care. But, happily, there are quite a few nice neighbors still in Brooklyn.
22
Well, Tony, I remember when Park Slope was largely for the wealthy, and then when it fell on harder times.
I remember when Fort Greene fell on hard times, and professionals of all colors and creeds moved out because it had become dangerous. Ditto Flatbush.
I remember when Prospect Heights was populated by middle-class and working-class Greeks, and they moved out because robberies had gone sky high.
3
The problem is simplistic thinking that automatically assumes institutions or unions or government or anything else is automatically “good” or “bad”. In real life, it’s the details that matter.
Unions can be a useful counterweight to corporate power. But unions aren’t immune to corruption, racism, bullying, or anything else.
I have no idea how accurate the charges are against the Co-Op. It may be the folks who run it are blind to its flaws. Then again, those advocating for a union may find out if they get one, it may have not been the easy answer they were looking for.
One of these days, Progressives will realize that life isn’t a Disney movie with clearly defined heroes and villains.
53
@Scott. Viewing issues in black or white is a not a failing of progressives only. Far from it.
15
It may come as a surprise to many, but unions are not synonymous with workers. In most companies and organizations they are not needed, the workers are treated well and have a rapport with management. In larger organizations and those with contentious labor relations then some sort of representation of the workforce is needed.
A traditional union may not be the best solution to their problem. Workplace Councils are becoming more popular as are other alternatives to unions. This is mostly the union's own fault, they long ago stopped caring for the welfare of their member and started chasing money and power. That is why union membership is below 10% nationwide. It is also why closed shops or so called 'fair share' agreements, which are the same thing, are required to keep union membership even at 10%.
Unions may be getting very close to the point of no return, if so then hopefully they will be replaced by a new organization that has the welfare of workers as their prime motivation, not just as a sign on the wall.
17
@Bruce1253 A well presented reflection on the current situation.
The majority of problems with the last twenty years of unionization in smaller areas, which in many cases had employers (sometimes a co-op) treating each other with respect, brought in some of the contentious interactions we are now seeing.
The article mentions mid $20 wages with benefits, and they are complaining?
As Bruce points out, there are solutions other than having a mega, top heavy, union group bring their hard knuckle methods into a previously friendly environment. While the example in front of us is not quite the same, a problem with some Midwestern states' primary education teachers and the communities which pay taxes to support them. Previously functional interactions turned ugly when a state level union had directed far more aggressive tactics, alienating not only the rural communities, but many of the teachers who disagreed, only to find they had lost their voice or ability to influence their local leaders. It has taken many efforts over the last decade to begin to heal wounds.
7
Another great example from the far left on how trump will be re-elected.
And they’ll run Bernie again in 2024.
13
"In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, such as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining…. We demand this fraud be stopped."
- Martin Luther King Jr.
49
Retail grocery contracts restrict employees to specific jobs that may not be performed by any person not titled to perform that duty and that are not also represented by the union. The Park Slope Coop requires, sine qua non, non union “volunteers” perform the same functions that paid employees do. These Union rules are entirely inflexible and no union can or would negotiate a contract that relaxes those rules lest they set a precedent that would compromise future negotiations with the major supermarket chains.
6
@Kevin C.
Only true sometimes, Kevin.
4
@Kevin C.
I negotiated a local contract that broke the one person, one job rule. It cost us some money, but having the flexibility to move someone where they were needed was worth it.
7
Why should any employer have to pay for a “privilege” that is an absolute right? If you capitulate once, they’ll never stop coming back for more.
I belonged to the PSFC from 1998-2006, when I moved upstate. I missed it immediately. It was run with great fairness and egalitarianism.
What is there for a union to organize? There are few actual employees and enormous existing benefits to all members.
There were always members with complaints. Relatively few complaints, I thought, given the size of the membership. But someone somewhere is going to find fault with something.
Employees are not paid excessively but they do receive retirement benefits. As a union member, I thought that was remarkable and excellent.
The PSFC is a remarkable institution. I hope this sorts itself out without damaging the great good it does.
48
I was a member years ago. The place seemed hyper political at a personal level, very regimented at a process level and backwards culturally. I told someone where I was born and she responded matter of fact: up in a tree in the jungle? Key Food was the only option back then and that was fine by me.
37
The notion that a workplace is too unique for a union is a tired union-busting trope. Workers need unions. If Mr. Holtz really doesn't have an "anti-union bone in his body" - a laughable, transparent defense - then he should sign the neutrality agreement. The NLRB has already ruled that the Park Slope Food Coop had committed unfair labor practices. If you have questions about the need for a union at the coop, look here: https://www.psfcunion.org/. When are Liberals going to embrace unions again? We need them. Everywhere.
81
A union-busting trope? Really? The general manager makes 1.7x the lowest salary. Does it sound like a union is needed there?
23
@Matt
You lost me at "trope".
12
@Matt I'm not in management but am very happy *not* to be in a union.
4
It is a food co-op which engages in a union of purpose and spirit.
It does not need to "unionize."
That said, I've never joined. Too anti-all things Israeli for my taste.
Disclaimer: Not Jewish.
31
it isn't possible within the graphical bounds of NYT comments-section to actually present a mathematical expression of the Union-Disunion reality of the Non-Unionism of the Union Street situation but in simple words the reality is 17,000+ congruent circles with the same center-point and radius in the same plane - z. B., in the much larger context of the "outer world" everybody at PSFC is really THE SAME!!!!!
4
Does the NYT have an annual quota of pointless articles desperately looking for drama at the coop or something? Guys, it's just an extremely successful cooperative grocery store where everything pretty much works great. Give it up!
132
It doesn’t work great. Beyond the union issue, there are members who have been treated poorly by the organization. I am one of them.
30
just noticed CatholicChurch & Epstein both mentioned in this article putatively about a local grocery-store
21
The learned ignore the evidence of their senses to preserve the coherence of the ideas of their imagination.
Adam Smith
14
Workers need unions. Even at the Park Slope Food Coop. If Mr. Holtz was as pro-union as he claims to be, then he would sign the neutrality agreement. Fact is - the NLRB agreed that the Coop was engaged in unfair labor practice with respect to the unionization effort. And - this notion that the Coop is too unique for a union is the same old union-busting line. You find anti-union types saying that in every context. Ignore them, workers of the Coop, and fight on!
18
@matt Here are the facts: a MAJORITY of the staff petitioned the GCs to NOT sign one. Of the 19 charges filed with the NLRB, 15 were dismissed as unfounded, 4 that needed to be heard by a judge; those 4 charges were settled without an admission of guilt. All parties, including the charging one, agreed on this. Guilty-by-implication doesn't fly here.
The coop functions on cooperation and every staff member is a member and had to be a member to be eligible to be hired. The coop is not equivalent to an exploitative workplace. There are always disagreements that arise in groups of people. The coop has processes and a commitment to working them out. Having worked in factories as a member of a union for 13 years I can promise you the coop is nothing like those exploitative workplaces.
68
@KM The factory unions still demand payment of dues, though. This is what drives the pushiness and insistence that every worker "needs" a union.
8
The Co-op doesn’t always have a commitment to work things out. They can be very selective in their processes and that is not very cooperative much less democratic. Two themes that are constantly utilized at the Co-op.
10
So a group of workers took stock and, after absolutely no interference on the part of the employer (at least none reported here), the workers decided not to unionize.
That's a story?
114
@dporpentine the NLRB ruled that the Park Slope Food Coop interfered with the workers right to organize. A settlement was reached where management could "admit no wrongdoing" but had to stop the intimidation and other violations.
5
@Matt You are simply wrong. I am on staff at the Coop. The NLRB did NOT "rule that the PSFC interfered with the workers right to organize." You may disagree with those on staff who don't want to unionize, and that's fine. But don't spread lies.
89
@Truth
So rare and satisfying to see someone caught lying in the act.
11
Join a union and then what watch them take money from your check to line their pockets,support political ideas you may not support, protect poor workers just because their in the union while good workers can’t get paid more because union rules no wonder union membership is declining. These workers understand that being in a union is not great deal for the average worker.
23
@EAH you are totally wrong. I belong to the Engineers union in California, and while they have eroded some of our rights over the years, the benefits that California engineers and Landscape Architects get from this union are enormous. We make thousands of dollars more, I estimate probably about $20,000-30,000 more in base salary than our east coast non-unionized counterparts, for starters..The last Scotus case where they decided that Unions can't collect dues from paychecks hasn't even made a dent in this Union, it works so well for both Rank and File and Management..So sorry, give me unions any day over the 'right to work' states.. This huge union cannot be compared to the Park Slope co-op situation, however..
54
I am enjoying a comfortable retirement thanks to my union.
11
@EAH
All of my relations who were union members are happily retired, are mortgage free with good health care. They built infrastructure, buildings and telephone communications that you use every day.
As far as declining, I think Millennials are all for unionizing. So the future is in their hands.
Unions are a great deal for the average worker.
5
The Park Slope Food Coop is a remarkable place. It's an organization where people come together and work to make a good community - to make it the way they want to make it. It's self-determining and it works.
I've never been part of another organization in business where the principles are actually lived, and buy-in is so high. My work is an abysmal, meaningless disconnect by comparison.
I'm a coop member, so I work on a volunteer basis. I also value the work of Marc and the rest of the full-time staff, and take pride in their work too - and the fact that they have jobs that pay fairly.
53
@Kenny G.
Remarkable in some ways, and for some people. I have been a member for about a decade, and it is regularly the most racist and entitled space I pass through in New York City. While there are many lovely people and the groceries made good eating affordable, I and many, many others have been subject to racist comments, glares, shoving, threats and other forms of denigration. Only place I've ever been told (unprompted) by a random stranger that I "look like a 9/11 hijacker." Anti-racist training for paid staff as well as all squad leaders could go a long way, and maybe Park Slope will finally be noticed as a "liberal" bastion of pervasive racism.
43
Really? Have you heard about the member who was suspended 18 months for playing the music too loud?
10
@Reginald Ferguson
My guy simply had to step back from being a squad leader as far as I know. No educational component, no apology. But, more importantly, the problem is a broader one. When he said that to me, a woman in earshot started crying, talking about how often she heard racist things at the coop directed at her and others. Culture change is overdue.
18
There is the belief among some that unions are always better for workers. This is not always true, it's sometimes true, but not always.
For anti-union people, there is nothing good to be said about unions. For pro-union people, you can't admit any flaws with the union model.
The truth, usually, is somewhere in the middle.
Since there don't seem to be any complaints about wages, health insurance, hours or leave, and there isn't a CEO making 10x what the average worker makes, it seems like the problems mentioned can be worked out among the parties.
Why don't they try that?
I worked at an office once were there was only 1 unionized employee among about 20. All said it was worse after she joined the union (AFSME). She was well paid and received the same benefits as everyone else. But after the union came in, we could not talk to her about anything work related, always had to go through the union rep. Everyone, including the union member, hated it. Not an appropriate place for the union.
However I know many actors, movie, theatre and technical people. The union is the lifeblood of the profession, which would not exist without, nor be of the quality it is, without the union.
The workers at the Coop should think about what they're doing. The may come out worse off.
31
@ls, It seems workers at the Co-op see both sides and disagree as to which side should prevail. A simple majority vote does not fair or solve the problem. Meanwhile, every employee perhaps understands it is at-will employment.
1
Not every organization needs to be unionized. This is one of them. I'm truly baffled, aside from some weird idealization of the liberal ideal of unionization, as to why this would ever come up. Everyone in this organization makes essentially the same wages (top to bottom) and with the same benefits. It's a co-op, so there is already a group of co-equal owners who are also workers. The point of a union is for folks at the bottom of the ladder to gain power against those at the top. But this organization has no ladder!
130
@Caroline
I concur, but while It may not have a ladder, it does have a step stool, meaning that even if the workers themselves elect and pick their management team, management and worker conflict or disagreement still may arise. I'm in a large organization where everyone is an equal partner (same salary, benefits) and we elect, democratically, individuals express interest in being on the board, our management team. We did this after consulting an organization that specializes in establishing this kind of working environment. At this point, as an individual partner, you do loose some autonomy, but the benefits of having a management team actually manage are outweighed by personal grievances with certain decisions. I couldn't imagine bringing in a union for an organization set up like mine. It sounds like the Co-op could resolve many of their issues with better communication. Maybe consult with an organization that specializes in labor-management issues to come in, look at the system and make recommendations. It's a one-time fee and they can always come back for tune-ups and consultation, but it avoids a union which, in my opinion, is more adversarial, as it needs and should be when dealing with companies way differently structured than Co-ops.
6
The worker interviewed felt his voice wasn’t being heard. Isn’t that also part of the point of a union, to help represent the voices of those with less power?
The author is making a good point that your comment exemplifies: many progressives like to say how the world should be and criticize others but they themselves are exempt from the same set of rules. What is harm in letting them unionize if the general spirit of the co-op is supportive?
13
@Caroline The point of a union is to empower workers in their relationship with their employers. Every worker should have a union and be able to exercise democratic control over their workplace. Period.
8
Pro-union as a matter of belief, but not practice. Pro-school integration as a matter of belief, but not practice. Pro-affordable housing as a matter of belief, but not practice. Noticing a theme here ...
65
@Andy Deckman - As the article you did not read states, a majority the employees themselves do not want to unionize. Joe Holtz, the general manager of the co-op, stated in the article you did not read "that he would support whatever decision the workers ultimately make".
Glad to help.
90
@Henry B
FLSA of 1938 doesn't care if some or majority or whatever. You argument is irrelevant.
And you haven't addressed the feelings of the African-American member who feels demeaned by all the rich entitled members and customers.
So to paraphrase Andy, pro-diversity as a matter of belief, not fact. Pro union as a matter of belief, not fact.
Glad to help.
11
If only that were true.
1
It must be time for the semi-annual Trouble at the Co-op article. Seriously, show me a food co-op that doesn't thrive on this kind of drama...
99
@Scott
I wonder why the Times seems to hate the PSFC. Their coverage is usually denigrating. This article was no better.
20
@Scott - in reality just another in a very long line of coup attempts
7
This is systemic. Try putting forward a union initiative in one of the many non-profits (whose EDs live in Park Slope) and see how quickly the ED and the Board (mostly people from Finance) squash it.
The fact of the matter is that this is structurally a class issue, through and through. You will NEVER be able to peacefully bring in unions when management is sitting there struggling with their own thin margins. A non-profit ED or small business manager is bringing in maybe a little over 100k a year and trying to pay a mortgage in Kensington or PS. Then there's health insurance...
You can have the most progressive managers in the world, but for small organizations, it won't matter. The margins are too thin, and they will go to the matt because unionization will ultimately get in the way of a manager's ability to make the salary s/he makes and have an upper middle-class lifestyle.
It isn't personal, it's structural. That's why Americorps, for example, is so popular in these sectors: poverty wages disguised as virtue.
So workers need to dig in, be strategic, and understand that a manager is and *never can be* on your side. Their need to maintain their lifestyle will always trump any progressive ideology they hold.
34
@Nate, did you read the article? Managers at PSFC make 1.7 times the amount of other staff members. The managers do not have an upper middle-class lifestyle.
56
@Nate
Yeah, looks like you commented without reading--I truly do not get why people do that. The highest paid employee doesn't even make twice what the average worker makes, and no one makes much. Everyone gets great benefits. This is definitely not a class issue.
25
Plus, they’ve mostly worked there for decades, so even 1.7 is very low.
1