All out War ? Lacking a modern army, Air Force, Navy. Best if can do is fire missiles from surrogates. Destroying Kharg Island Oil Terminal would bring Iran’s export oil economy to its knees and likely drive the Mullahs from power. Iran’s major “weapon” is the western world’s media taking Iran’s military prowess seriously.
It’s 520,000 conscript army mostly keeps the population at bay.
Iran is a regional danger only because having spent $10 billion plus the Mullahs are fully committed to securing nuclear weapons to dominate the mid-east and terrorize dissidents.
24
@Peter I Berman - Hezbollah's external operations unit already has a presence on American soil as a contingency plan that assuredly would be activated in the event of an "all out war." This consideration figures much more prominently into the US' response calculus than the surrogate missiles you speak of.
5
@Peter I Berman
Iran's export economy is already dead and gone, and
besides i would argue you have not won a war since ww2 (maybe 2-3 smaller exceptions), so not having a proper army (think Vietcong,Taliban) is by know means something negative as wars today are fought through other means than tanks and fighter jets!
8
@Peter I Berman. What difference does it make if we take out the Iranian oil terminal, if we are already preventing Iran from selling its oil? At this point are we not just pushing Iran to threaten to blow up Mideast oils production?
Iran is telling the world that you either lift the sanctions or they will blow up the Mideast oil production. Are they bluffing? Or are we going to back down? We are about to find out.
8
The mullahs should note what happened to "Rocketman." Nothing.
Trump can be played by praising him or just buying him off.
I don't see any of our allies rushing to our side. They are instead on the sidelines. Trump and MbS are alone with no good options. Saudi Arabia has shown that it is incapable of defending itself and expect the US to do that for them. But the American people will have no part of that plan. We need to get back to negotiations. There is no support anywhere for another Gulf War.
Most experts on Iran agree that starting a war with them, whether by making a surgical attack or going all the way, will be the most serious mistake the trump regime would make. Let us hope our military leadership prevails and keep our country away from this foolish path. The wars with Iraq and Afghanistan have cost this country trillions of dollars+opportunity costs, American lives, and thousands of disabled veterans. The Adversary has kept trump safe, strong, and has given him a thick coat of Teflon. His cartoonish behavior and severe personality flaws are serving him well. He has been able to put a thick cover--smoke and mirrors, over his mendacity and complete lack of morals and values. Those Americans blinded by his showmanship and lies deserve him in all his glory. Everything is out in the open for anyone who cares to look. Anyone who is a true American patriot and cares for the destiny and greatness of this United States of America! a country founded as a beacon of hope for the rest of the world. A country of greatness in values, hope, and democratic ideals. So, stop burying your head in the sand pretending everything is fine. Nothing is fine and we are now in the midst of a fight to defend our country. We are facing threats, foreign and domestic, by all those willing to destroy our institutions, rule of law, and individual rights, or those that are enabling this regime's evil work.
Americans should thank Iran for exacting revenge on Saudis for 9/11! And they did it on 9/14.
Had they done it in 2001, it would have saved us from going to war in Iraq.
Saudi Arabia is armed with American weapons and is the most modern. If Iranian missiles hit targets without even being noticed by air defense systems, then what would be the amounts of US casualties in the US-Iran war? If US generals have the brains, they will obviously decide to postpone in the foreseeable future an attack on Iranian military bases (which could provoke an Iranian full-scale military response).
In the event of a conflict in the Persian Gulf, the price of oil will jump, which will badly affect the US economy, and at the same time give money and power to Russia.
Reading some of the comments on here, the ignorance of history is simply blinding, so I'll repeat my response to a poster who thought our dispute with Iran began with the seizure of the U.S. embassy in Tehran in 1979.
The root of the U.S.-Iranian conflict began in 1953 with the U.S. coup of a democratically elected Prime Minister Mossadeh, and the installation of a brutal dictator, Shah Pahlavi. This was done at the behest of the British government to prevent the nationalization of British Petroleum's local assets.
The Iranian people never forgave this, and the seizure of the U.S. embassy was in part retribution for 26 years of suffering and humiliation at the hands of an imperial power. Read Steve Kinzer's "All the Shah's Men". This foreshadowed the same mistake the U.S. made in getting involved with the French in Vietnam.
The latest dispute was indeed precipitated by the U.S. abrogation of the 2015 nuclear treaty with Iran, and unilateral imposition of economic sanctions against a country that the U.S. intelligence agencies admitted had been adhering to the treaty. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. So we now want to bomb them for reacting to our illegal actions? So who is the "outlaw country" now?
7
An "all out" war with the USA? Maybe he is not aware of what the term means.
1
I am neither a lover of Saudis nor the Iranians. However, I consider the Saudis to be the least desirable of all people in the middle east.
First, the USA has no business in attacking Iran, there is no joint defense treaty and there was no attack on the USA, per se. If, however, US does attack Iran then it would be nice to see that Iranians are able to thoroughly bloody up the US's nose and cause significant damage to its vessels and other infrastructure so it learns to mind its own business, what would be even better that they have a missile or a drone that can travel all the way to NYC to show the US citizens what it feels like to have a bomb dropped on you, it would only be fair. In re the Saudis, if they attack, I would love to see all of its oil infrastructure totally flattened, along with that of United Arab Emirates; both these countries are involved in causing humongous humanitarian catastrophe in Yemen. Iranians support of the Houthis is no different than the US support of Israel, Saudis, and others who cause enormous damage all across the region. Israelis are responsible for the Palestinian humanitarian crisis and they cause too much personal damage to families by snatching their property and giving it to Jews, yes let's be frank and honest here.
1
If there is a war with Iran, it won't be a handful of SCUD missiles falling haphazardly on Israel from Baghdad, it will be sophisticated CRUISE missiles, MIG-29s, Grumman F-14 Tomcats, Mirage F1s and McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom IIs--along with a half-million ground troops.
Stop and THINK!
1
@SAJP
I am pretty sure that the F-14s are no longer operational.
If the Iranians and Saudis want to fight it out, then they should feel free to have at it. Personally, I don't think either nation wants direct conflict, that is why they sponsor proxy wars.
1
@SAJP. The time to stop and think was before the Iraq war. We have no good options here, and we are not even making the top 1% of the US wealth pay their share of our defense. They don’t serve due to bone spurs, and their triple tax cuts are bankrupting the US. They can move to the Cayman Islands while the rest of us get to watch the us decline and not even defend our paying allies ( that is Saudi Arabia, not Israel which trump has never asked to pay for its own defense).
1
@SAJP
Just as "trade wars are good and easy to win," the Trump base thinks it will be a walk in.
Go ahead Donny Trump and Pompous Pompeo. Go to war on behalf of Saudi Arabia, the people that gave you 9/11. It will be embarrassing if only the two of you show up.
6
Face it, Homo Sapiens as a species are pretty ugly, mean, greedy fearful, animalistic and violent. I am surprised we got as far as we did. Maybe if Musk gets some living human DNA to Mars we will survive. Watch the movie WALL-E.
2
@Will Hogan
Why would we be any different on Mars?
1
How did a coward become Commander-In-Chief?
2
Even if you are so cold that you could care less about killing people, women, children incinerated by bombs, would you care about other costs of attacking? I would suggest billions of taxpayer dollars at least that we would have to borrow, the environmental impact, and our diminished credibility on the world stage.
3
How is it possible that the US would even consider an airstrike over this incident? Where is Trump's authorization from Congress to do so? The US was neither attacked nor is it directly threatened. Saudi Arabia has sufficient advanced weaponry to retaliate on its own if it deems a response is necessary. So exactly what is the justification for any US involvement? As every schoolchild knows, the Constitution gives the president the power to conduct war, but only Congress can declare war. I don't think even Trump's base is willing to send their sons and daughters into battle in order to keep the Trumps' real estate projects funded. As much as the Democrats would like to avoid impeaching Trump, an attack on Iran without Congressional approval would be too great an abuse of power to be ignored
5
@frederick10280
"Where is Trump's authorization from Congress to do so?"
We know Trump won't bother with such legal formalities.
Until his base suffers greatly, they will support the demagogue.
A measured analysis is required and calm response is best course. Saudi defenses with top US weapons at the offing, failed dramatically....Yes, Iran supports Yemeni rebels... who have been subjected to a scorched earth policy by Saudis and allies going on 4 years, to no effect....Perhaps step back from possible Regional War and reassess.That seems a reasoned response unless one wants region to become conflagration. Calm and measured.
2
Iran and Saudi Arabia are now at the brink of war only a year after Trump's catastrophic abandonment of the 6 nation pact that stopped Iran from building nukes. Now is a good time to remember the American public is fed up wasting more blood and treasure on another ill conceived, unilateral American intervention in another endless Mideast war
There is an alternative, however, that could keep this and other Mideast conflicts from spreading---that is to join Europe and enlarge NATO's mission to seal off and contain Mideast conflicts inside the Mideast.
This would finally put an end to America intervening impulsively, isolated and alone, in one Mideast crisis after another. Instead, under its existing, unified organization and command structure, NATO would deploy resources when and where needed to secure NATO member borders, stop Mideast conflicts spreading to Europe, North Africa, and beyond, then squeeze warring Mideast governments to solve conflicts themselves without anyone doing their fighting for them.
No doubt, it will be difficult in present circumstances to agree on mission parameters and commit resources to NATO to contain these conflicts. But failing to do so now is sure to lead to far worse conditions, costs, and conflicts later. And if we do fail, it won't be long until we learn the hard way that the horrific Syrian conflict was only the first, not the last, and not the worst, Mideast war that spreads turmoil far beyond the Mideast.
If Pompeo wants relative peace in the Middle East, it’s pretty simple: the US, the world’s largest arms merchant by far, can stop selling and giving weapons of mass destruction to its favorites there and the US can remove its troops throughout the area. Take out the huge weapons and the most that folks can do is hammer at each other with AKs and that gets old quick when you can no longer kill by merely pushing a button.
7
The number of posters who are convinced that (a) Iran is the guilty aggressor here and (b) US military action could solve the problem quickly and completely is simply stunning.
Our military misadventures have failed repeatedly, in almost every instance since WWII, leaving tens of thousands of dead Americans, hundreds of thousands maimed physically and emotionally, together with many millions of innocent others, but millions of Americans still imagine that we are unbeatable heroes.
The warmongers obviously have a very good propaganda machine -- and/or we have very slow learners for citizens.
8
Today, U.S. troops committed another brutal war crime, they slaughtered scores of Afghan farmers. But no one in America cares. We Americans are no different from China, Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia or North Korea.
https://www.france24.com/en/20190919-us-drone-strike-kills-islamic-state-farmers-afghanistan-ghani
7
I cannot find sympathy for a country who funded 911, do atrocious thing's to their own countrymen and cut journalists up with bone saws.And you really know it's a lot worse than than that. They must be the "good Muslims."
6
By the logic of the arguments here that Iran is the instigator, the United States is the instigator of the slaughter in Yemen. American exceptionalism doesn't mean we can engage in behavior that we condemn in others.
6
America just killed a bunch of civilians in Afghanistan; do you think we would do less in Iran? Women; children; civilians mean nothing to America. We lock kids in cages. Laugh about it. Bible thumpers push anti abortion and pro life while starving children to death in Yemen. Trump takes away school lunches from kids in America; "Socialism is Evil". America; look in the mirror. Time to change.
12
I'm so sick of Iran threatening the US. I want military action-there has been too much talk with Iran.
Why shouldn't Iran threaten the US, we never do anything about it?
It's time to dust off Dick Cheney's 50,000 points of light plan for Iran.
We should have destroyed Iran's military long ago. They have a nuclear weapons program, yet a large percentage of their population can't even read and write and go hungry regularly. That's pathetic.
If they want a fight, give it to them, When they get done with Iran--destroy the Pakistani military which is the cause of the trouble in Afghanistan.
1
Are you tired of the US threatening and sanctioning Iran? I am. We have been doing it for forty years. Who can really blame the Iranians?
7
@wildcat
Looks like you need a history lesson... based on your ideas about Pakistan and Afghanistan alone
@wildcat
What, exactly, have the Iranians done to the US since the Embassy hostages? They have certainly not attacked the US.
Osama bin Laden, was a Saudi. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi. Bin Laden was mad at the US for stationing troops on Islamic soil during Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm.
You might want to brush up on the history of the Middle East, and current world affairs (and grammar) before deciding who we need to destroy.
Can I assume you will be leading the charge yourself?
I am a veteran of the US Army with one deployment to Afghanistan and Iraq each.
Call your representative and your senators, and demand impeachment.
Reality of the situation: Trump is convening his NSC to discuss attacking Iran and starting World War III because Iran sponsored an attack on a Saudi oil facility.
This is not a political discussion. Impeaching Donald Trump is about protecting the national security of the United States, and preventing a war that will kill potentially hundreds of thousands of American service women & men, and millions of people in the Middle East.
You who have never fought a war cannot possibly imagine the horrific consequences of what a war with Iran and the resulting fallout would involve. Iran is not Iraq. Iran has a serious professional military with superpower allies like China.
Impeaching Trump is not a political option. It is a patriotic duty.
22
@Austin Ouellette
I'm confident there will be no war; regardless I wholeheartedly agree that Trump must be impeached.
He is the worst President in the history of the United States of America, and a mean ill-tempered narcissist, bereft of empathy.
5
@Mel Farrell
In 1932, the Germans were pretty sure all of Hitler’s rhetoric about Jews was just empty rhetoric too.
Of all of the people who would absolutely order our Army to go to war because he promised the King of Saudi Arabia he would, it’s him. All in order to get Trump Tower Riyadh built.
1
That would be a short war, that ends badly for the theocracy.
Saddam Hussein wasn't the only regional leader who was all bluster with no real support from the population.
Certainly, the Iranians are better suited to warfare than the Saudis, but in the end, what will it get them.
If the answer isn't: A lot more than what they already have - then why bother.
Clearly, they aren't going to conquer Saudi Arabia. So given that, what's the plan ? Just wreck the place ?
That fits well with my poersonal experience, having spent 20 years in the Persian Gulf region surrounded by people who delight in pulling wings off flies, burning live animals, and who, on their best day, act like a bunch of adolescents.
So maybe that's the plan.
If I can't have it no one can.
And if that is the plan, the effect on the rest of the worlds economies would be profound.
So in that case the ayotullahs will be wiped from the face of the earth and their military establishment reduced to cinders.
Then the Persian people can set their government straight and lead normal lives again.
1
If only things were that easy. Have you ever heard of the war with Iraq? That was a country much less capable than Iran.
4
@Objectivist
Compassion much? How would you like to be under bombs raining down on you?
The Siege of Iran is working - "eliminate any nuclear weapon plans, and then you can eat again.."
A siege is a powerful historical military tool -- it works..
Iran is becoming more desperate by the minute.. their options are not good if they persist or strike out..
1
In a choice between believing Foreign Minister Zarif and Secretary of State Pompeo there is no contest. Nobody should believe Pompeo.
15
Just a quick question: Why are we on the Saudis side against Iran? Really, would rooting for the other side be that bad?
13
@Alex C
Why? Ask Donald...
@Alex C
$50,000,000 in condos, that's why.
It's outrageous that a Houthi strike on oil refineries with no casualties should start the war drums beating in Washington. Everyone knows they got weapons from Iran. This is not proof Iran itself did anything. The outrageous part is that the US has sold Saudi Arabia huge numbers of bombs with which the Saudis have killed thousands of Yemeni civilians, in addition to however many rebel soldiers and causing large-scale famine and destruction. The real war criminals are sitting in Saudi Arabia and in the White House.
12
What will $9/gal gas do to the economy?
6
I don't know how Iran can deny having any involvement and keep a straight face. Just like they had no involvement in the bombing of our military barracks in Lebanon and our embassy there. Oh yes, who set Hezbollah and who recruited all of them and trained them to be the most vicious terrorists? The Iranian Revolutionary Guard. I don't know what the answer it, but if we do nothing like with the Hezbollah attacks, things will get worse with this lawless crazy regime.
1
@gmt Hezbollah was defending its territory. If they weren’t there, let’s be honest, Lebanon would be part of greater Israel by now. Just saying.
1
We could abolish Iran from the map is 48 hours.
There is no way the Mr. Zarif is ignorant to this fact. He is posturing to look tough.
3
I see how that is working out in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Libya.
3
@Scott
"We could abolish Iran from the map is 48 hours."
That's what President Truman said about Korea.
That's what President Johnson said about Vietnam
That's what "Mission Accomplished" President George W. Bush said, about Iraq. How long has the US military been fighting in Afghanistan? Is victory in sight? Nope...
I'm just sayin'
3
@Scott why would you want to “abolish” Iran from the map period? What is IRAN done to you? Is it because you’re told to hate the country?
The only instigator of war is the United States, who is looking more and more like Sauron with every passing day and set of lies.
11
Elect Tulsi Gabbard for President she will make peace.
4
@Independent voter sorry, but she just doesn’t have that “presidential” energy to her. And her tweet, albeit true, was tacky. She could have conveyed her message with grace.
Is "all out war" the same thing as "the mother of all wars?"
You do know that we are still fighting in Iraq, 15 years after Bush’s Mission Accomplished speech.
2
He is telling you that if America and its pathetic allies strike Iran there will be all out war. What would America do if the shoe were in the other foot? Oh yeah, blow up Afghanistan, and Iraq for good measure, and be in war 18 years running. One thing you are not hearing in Pompeo’s “diplomacy” is a list of European countries getting on board because they won’t be fooled again. Freedom fries!
The U.S. has no dog in this fight.
Let the Saudi's scotch there on snakes.
5
Wait, so let’s criticize just the US here? It’s not all because of sanctions and because Trump left JCPOA. How about blaming Iran, their foreign minister, and their unhinged leader. Why is it always our fault for their behavior? Iran is a danger to the world. New York Times and those on the left: you can criticize Iran!
3
@Jonathan Fiskus
United States is a danger to the world; present day Iran is a United States creation. The CIA defined unintended consequence as... blowback.
7
@Jonathan Fiskus does Iran have the the world-wide weapons sales that the US has? Is their military the single largest polluter on Earth? How many people around the world have died by American-made weapons? So much more to add, but I have a feeling your “mind” is already made up.
So how many want war, whatever form it may take?
Raise your hands.
Ok, that’s 100 arms manufacturers, ten idiots in the Trump Administration, maybe 50 Saudi Arabian viziers and, say, 50 ambitious Iranians.
To be generous to the never-in-combat war lovers, multiply their number by 10.
That’s 2,100 for war and about 420,000,000 million civilians against.
Yet news stories say war is possible, even likely.
About 200 years ago, some men came up with the idea that "Congress (not the king) shall have the power to declare war...."
Ok, that's obviously gone.
So, does anyone think that by now, year 2019, we should have a better system than Pharaoh's or Charlemagne's for deciding when nations go to war?
2
Not long ago, Nicholas Kristof wrote, of Trump's "Iran policy": "What’s the strategy other than a temper tantrum?”
Well, news flash. Every thing Trump does is a temper tantrum. His sole reason in pulling out of the 6-nation accord was because he couldn't stand the thought of the success Obama had, in helping negotiate this treaty. And his action was designed to continue to feed his white, racist base's temper tantrum.
Now, these most recent drumbeats of what would be an insane war for both sides have been started only because of the damning whistleblower disclosures this past week. Trump is terrified that any more of his criminal acts may become public, and he's lashing out once again, when things don't go his way. And if he needs to start a war to assuage his infantile temperament, then that's exactly what he'll do.
Now, a war with Iran would be built on nothing but lies. But his base doesn't care. And here, his lies are about Iranians, brown-skinned people in the Middle East - a sure winner with his racist supporters.
So understand the only "strategy" Trump has is to continue with these tantrums, and do everything in his power to continue to stoke the anger and racism of his base. He has told them that he would "close this country up" in some half-baked, racist attempt to seal our borders. And they love all of these disgusting, bigoted statements. With Iran, the tantrum is all this is about. With Trump voters, that's all it's ever been about.
8
@Donegal
As clear as the cry of the curlew I remember from long ago in those western lands.
The "anger and racism" of his base.
Can you believe that you are actually saying those words, and that they are absolutely true, and that this is what this Presidency is all about.
Talk about falling down a rabbit hole; methinks its one deep dark void and reaching bottom will either destroy or enlighten us.
When the US withdrew from JCPOA and started applying "maximum pressure," the only options left to Iran were war or capitulation. How often in history did a country ever capitulate when war was still an option? I honestly can't think of any.
10
Well, since MBS is pulling the strings, I’d say the fix is on. Don’t believe a thing.
2
Biden, like Hillary and Kerry, voted for the Iraq War and Patriot Act. As an Obama voter (twice), if Biden is the nominee, I will vote third party or not at all.
We need an anti-war progressive as a nominee who respects the Constitution.
7
Your position is not noble but foolish and is part of why we may stumble into war behind cadet bone spurs. All elections are a choice, and withdrawing your vote is the same as voting for the realistic candidate you like the least. Fight for your candidate, but accept that this is how democracy works if your candidate loses the primary.
4
@Observer
‘Progressive’ and ‘respects the Constitution’ are mutually exclusive.
Biden and Harris. Blacks control the southern primaries and the polls make it clear. Harris will be next in line as the first woman president. After 16 more years of demographic change and a lot of dead white baby boomers Biden may end up being the last white president.
1
The worst thing Saudi Arabia could have wished for was for Trump to throw out the treaty with Iran and level yet more sanctions on them. Iran, although now ruled by tyrants, is strong militarily. Trump backed them into a corner, they came out fighting, and guess who blinked? Even for the confused Donald Trump it was amazing how quickly "locked and loaded" became "we really don't want war with Iran". Maybe we're about to see a world class bully (MBS) put in his proper place.
4
@Robert
Oil is not the issue. There is an abundance of oil sloshing around the world.
never get into a fight with someone who is willing to die.
9
Iran, please build your nuclear arsenal as soon as possible. It is the only way to rein in this criminal administration from sparking a war that would end tragically for all.
11
Iran has been fighting those Sunni terrorists, ISIS, al Qaeda, and al Qaeda’s offshoot in Syria for us, with hardly any news coverage on this by our own MSM.
10
Ooooooooh, I’m scared.
Are these the same experts who were so sure that there were WMDs in Iraq? It’s a huge problem that we cannot trust our own government’s conclusions on these matters anymore.
11
Can we trust a president who thinks he is above the law to make decisions that may result in the deaths of thousands? Ten thousands? More?
No!
Congress must act.
Nobody is suggesting that Iran is a dangerous adversary. But the president is an outlaw.
8
One of the oldest "games" in military conflicts is the game of detecting "holes" in the defense system of your enemy. Countries simply test their enemy's defense systems by "poking" them and then observing their responses. The "poke", however, must be gentle enough that things don't get out of hand, leading to an actual war. But sometimes these tests go wrong with disastrous results.
Remember Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (sic!) that entered into the Soviet Union's airspace on September 1, 1983? Now we know that it was a CIA "poke" of the Soviet's defense system in the area. That test went horribly wrong, as the Soviet fighters ended up shooting the airliner down, killing its 269 passengers and its crew.
Is it possible that Iranians or some other country (China? Russia?) were trying to test the US anti-missile systems? Could it be that they were counting on the US anti-missile systems to shoot down most of the missiles, while they were looking for the systems' "blind spots"? After all, what the Saudis have shown on TV indicated that the missiles/drones hitting the plants' storage tanks did not carry explosives; else there would be little fuselage left to show.
I wonder if anyone has yet asked Mr. Trump or Mr. Pompeo why the billion-dollar anti-missile systems that the US has sold to Saudi Arabia failed to protect their oil processing plants? Is the US going to war just to avoid that very question or is it simply to make up for the failure of its military equipment?
11
More incontrovertible evidence, than intelligence presenting direct Iran involvement against Saudi installations, proving influential Saudis, at the least informed about, 11 September 2001 Terrorist Attacks. Why aren't we bombing Saudi Arabia?
8
We need look only to Iran's arch enemy the "zionist entity" that has been attacking Iranian bases in Syria and recently in Iraq repeatedly over the past few years to see how "ready" they are for all out war. Because as opposed to the US, which Iran has no means of directly attacking at all, Iran has its proxy Hezbollah armed to the teeth on Israel's northern border with tens of thousands of rockets. And yet after over 100 attacks on its assets and bases Iran has not had Hezbollah fire off a single rocket, let alone start an all out war.
And this is for the obvious reason that Iran knows that even if they attack Israel they cannot achieve anything remotely resembling a victory. In addition to the fact that they do not have the money to replace and rebuild whatever will be destroyed in the course of a war.
And yet here we have Americans who are terrified of Iran waging an all out war against the US. This despite the fact that unlike Israel there is no limit to the damage the US can inflict on Iran itself. Iran threatens taking out US ships when it knows that an attack on a single US ship will result in the total destruction of their navy. And all out war will result in the destruction of every military asset they posses, including every nuclear related facility that they have worked for decades to build.
There is a good reason that all of Iran's neighbors who with to live without Iran threatening them see an all out war by the US against Iran as their greatest wish.
3
America supplies the Saudis with wepons and personal to fight in a war in Yemen that has killed hundreds of civilians and caused one of the worst humanitarian crisis ever.
Iran is accused of supplying weapons to the Houthis that caused Saudi Arabia a major problem in their oil fields....and America wants to strike back?
5
@Robert
Yes, we have really lost our way and any credibility left after the lies that were told to gain support for the Iraq war. And the Democrats eliminated from the debates the one person who had the courage to speak out about our wars, Tulsi Gabbard.
2
What Iran did is send warning shot across Trump and Saudi Arabia's bow, attack us and we will shutdown the flow of oil out of the Persian gulf and they proved they could do it. Even Trump knows if his supporters can't afford to fill up their pick up trucks he is toast in 2020.
Chris: update your understanding of the current day state of oil affairs! The US is a net EXPORTER of oil and natural gas. The global price would rise (including here at home) but that would spur production even further. There would never be a supply issue here.
1
@William Wrong oil is a fungible commodity it is priced by the world supply not the US supply. Are you thinking the US can nationalize the US oil supply and set the price of domestic sales? If an oil producer can sell their oil in China for $200.00 are you in support of a law that says they can't but must only sell it locally for $55.00? Though it would be funny to see the pretzels that Republicans would have to put themselves in to protect the rights of an oil producer to sell oil to China at $200 rather than to Trumps pick up drivers for $50.00 a barrel.
1
Hmm. Well maybe Iran should’ve thought this through before bombing Saudi Arabia.
2
September 19, 2019 CE
Yes all out whatever in the age of modern inter-connectivity of global relations and the buck will not exclude war when having to deal in the marketplace. We all on Earth share in the transaction affairs as such striking the means of operations is the an attack on the whole nature of modernity and that includes counter attacking and and all that will bring harm and excessive damages to the systems that must be protected and directly attack to any persons or governing supporting agency that damages the maintence and decency for vast degrees of expecting exchanges albiet medical, electronic communications systems and indeed every and all food, educational products that are shipped transported everywhere in need and desire to live smart and with all means of offensive and defensive as a natural god given governmental plan of actions 24/7 eternal.
1
If the Saudis want to drop a nuclear bomb on Tehran, we shouldn't try to stop them.
@hamishdad
...unless we care about the hundreds of thousands of defenseless civilians who would die and be maimed by such an attack.
I do, and I think most people also care about killing unarmed humans who never did us the least harm.
3
@Bill Banks thank you. Why are some Americans so energized by killing?
I've never felt so good toward a leader I dislike so much. I don't want a big war and Trump has all but admitted there will be no American war on Iran. Why? Mainly because he can't work together with his own military and intelligence people to make it happen. He's blunted his own nation's power in a way that brings to mind Stalin's Great Purge of the Soviet army which left it so feeble that Hitler decided he could give it the final kick (and nearly did). Iran isn't stupid - they saw Trump's mishandling of North Korea with his blimpish vows of total destruction, only to be followed by requests by him to do the only thing he's really good at: grand summits where he flatters and appeased dictators much smarter than him. Iran was already in a strong position before they blew up the world's biggest gas station. This week, having shown how bad Saudi air defenses are, and with Israel effectively leaderless, they must be feeling stronger than ever.
1
America is Saudi Arabia's geopolitical lap dog. They have influenced our foreign policy for decades. We condemn other countries for human rights abuses and SA escapes all judgement. Wake up America.
19
Anyone want to bet the whistle blower case elsewhere in the press today is precisely about this questionable air strike evidence?
9
The drone/missile strike was all-around good news. It taught the arrogant Saudis that there is no win in Yemen. At the same time Tehran learned that its best shot resulted in a small rise in the price of oil for a few days and no more. The conventional wisdom has been proved wrong. Perhaps now both sides can negotiate rather than posture.
3
This wasn't a problem till Trump. We had solid working treaty and the ability continue to work with them in good faith now we have nothing but trouble.
Thanks Trump.
6
While I personally don't advocate a war - it is worth remembering Saddam after his Kuwait occupation - held the world hostage.
All by making his Republican guards 10 foot tall soldiers.
Well, we know how long his Republican guards lasted - 100 hours.
When we went in to topple him from power - many pundits said it will be a war of attrition - that will make body bags of Vietnam - well, to put it crudely - a child's play.
So, the Middle East is known for bombast.
And if push came to shove - Iranians may wonder what were they thinking??
Of course, as they say first casualty of war is truth -followed by all the plans.
But proceeding with abundant caution is a wise course today.
2
@Neil
Agree, but we didn’t really win in Iraq, and Iran would be much more difficult. More to the point, the people of Iran are not our enemies. We should be working to help them overthrow their odious government, and that is not done by bombing them.
4
This bumbling Administration is about to trip and fall into an all-out war with a nation that has tools to defend itself. Tools that it can use to destroy Saudi Arabia’s oil industry. Tools that it can use to block the Strait of Hormuz. Iran has a carefully cultivated group of associates who will bring war to the entire Middle East. Iran does not have nukes, but it does have a big tool box.
This isn’t Iraq/Afghanistan circa 2002. This is Iran circa 2019. This is a huge disaster in the making, from an administration that refuses to play out the scenarios war with Iran will absolutely create. Jeez, even the Saudis see the disaster this war would create.
Why are we at this point? Because Donald Trump would rather destroy his predecessor’s legacy than build a better world. And because Senators such as Tom Cotton think it will be a cakewalk.
And what coalition will we create? No coalition because this country cannot be trusted with the tools of war anymore. Doors around the world will slam shut, though from behind the Chinese door you’ll certainly hear laughter.
Forget the trade war. This is how we destroy the global economy.
7
@Rod A - "This isn’t Iraq/Afghanistan circa 2002."
Well .... the US military has not managed to accomplish much in Afghanistan either; whether circa 2002 or 2019. The ragtag Taliban is still there, getting bolder every passing day. It appears that the US, sooner than later, will be running for the door, à la Vietnam.
Something that the US military rarely talks about is the little fact that Iranians and Afghans are racially the same people, with similar cultures and the same fighting genes. Their only difference is that Iranians are generally more educated; hence, more cunning. If the Afghanistan war has lasted 18 years with no conclusion, expect a war with Iran to last many times more.
2
The Iranians are demonstrating how dangerious a nuclear armed Iran would be. Keep up the sanctions!
2
@Fred
I guess Iran is not permitted to defend itself, only certain favorite countries?
4
@Fred just because the Saudis are inept at...everything, that doesn’t make IRAN dangerous. Just a convenient fall guy it seems.
Iran promises the Mother of all Wars?
Oh great! just like Iraq War I
That time Iraq’s leader also bowed the Mother of all Wars, a week later he was on the run and his army destroyed.
This one should be even faster since we have had 30 years since then to upgrade our stuff, and learn from mistakes.
In, out, done.
This should be a cake walk,
3
“In, out, done” in Iraq? With how much loss of life? With the creation of ISIS in its wake. With how many billion dollars spent that were badly needed at home? Iran is ten times the adversary that Iraq was. If the US gets dragged into war with Iran it will be a catastrophe for all concerned. And for what? To defend a murderous Saudi regime? To protect Big Oil’s businesses? Anyone who likes the idea of war with Iran should be the first to sign up for military duty there.
2
Actually, the attack was made by Israel using captured weapons.
Just kidding! But, it's all speculation, so why not? It makes as much sense as anything for Israel to strike its enemy Saudi Arabia and get the US to strike its other enemy, Iran. Sounds like a lot of US yahoos are ready to bomb Iran based on evidence provided by the country that brought you 9-11 and the murder/dismemberment of a Saudi journalist working for the Washington Post, so why not get hysterical in another direction?
5
@Pete
Then why would the Houthis claim responsibility?
See how easy it is for ridiculous conspiracy theories to be summarily debunked.
2
@them
Come on, you can do better than that, it's obvious: for a similar reason they are claiming responsibility for the attack if it had come from Iran. To juice their image.
Trump is now in a position to deliver Armageddon to the christian Zionists who support him. The neocons, generally NeverTrumpers, are a little more circumpect, because they realize that Israel will be devastated in the general MidEast conflagration that's coming. Both Iranian ballistic missiles and the thousands of Hezbollah miissiles will rain down on Israel.
The Saudi and gulf oil and gas installations will be destroyed, and shipping will be completely disrupted in the Gulf.
Former US military doctrine always calls for removal of the enemy's air defenses prior to any offensive bombing. The former US and Israelis are incapable of doing this, even had there been a Persian Gulf War style buildup, which hasn't happened.
The situation is much more like the Mutual Assured Destruction of Cold War days.
Either way, Trump is weakened going into the 2020 election. He is already under attack from Republican warmongers such as the Adelson-owned Lindsay Graham and Lynn Cheney. The christian Zionists, VP Pence and Sec'y Pompeo particularly, want their Armageddon, Rapture, and Second Coming, and won't be happy if Trump doesn't deliver.
Or, he could give them what they want, and sink the world and former US economy, and embroil everybody in yet another unwinnable and unnecessary MidEast War.
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
4
@Charlie
And we may have thought those you mentioned were Pro-life? Guess it doesn’t matter to them how many children suffer or die in Iran from sanctions or direct war based on an agenda.
3
Trump will do Nothing. He is a coward.
1
@Ray Sipe. You’re confusing him with Obama.
1
@Ray Sipe. Like Barack?
I’m sorry, did I miss something? I hadn’t realized that our oil facilities were targeted. Seems that we sell Saudi Arabia billions in arms. Let them make the retaliatory strike.
13
The Middle East was essentially carved up by the British after WWI. The "tribes" adhere to religious and tribal norms in lieu of borders.
Iraq is 60% Shia..if America on some manner attacks Iran..then Iraq will become another "war zone". With the deaths of 4500 US KIA and over 30K wounded ..and billions of dollars spent...that will be all in vain..for nothing. This will be the consequences of Trump and his "war hawks"..who for the most part have never heard gun fire or been in a combat zone..(Trump has yet to make to visit our troopers in Afghanistan ..one word "coward".
Iraq/2005-6;Afghanistan/2003-4
6
@RH
"The Middle East was essentially carved up by the British after WWI."
Er, and the French. The problem arrangement was brokered by Sykes and Picot. GB got Iran, Iraq, Palestine and the French, Syria and Lebanon.
Had the USA chosen to enter WW1 earlier than the very end, France and Great Britain would not have, by then, globally defeated Germany, Austro-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire everywhere except Germany itself, thus allowing those two countries to draw the post-war maps of the middle East, Africa and parts of Indochina. America's earlier entry would also most likely have prevented Germany's defeat of Tsarist Russia - meaning that the world would have been spared the Soviet Union and the Cold War.
1
so what--- some oil fields were destroyed. the thought of even going to war on behalf of saudi Arabia is simply mind boggling. Do you really want to send your children to be maimed and killed. do we stay until victory is achieved,(whatever that is supposed to mean). We now have a govt that is so completely self absorbed, corrupt and utterly clueless.
11
@MB. Who has said troops are being sent? That would be no one. Apparently you are unaware we have missiles and airplanes with bombs.
Of course, Iran has every right to defend itself if the Trump and his buddy MBS (with possible Israel’s help) initiate kinetic warfare against it.
6
Such a transparent, fool's game Iran is playing. Its weakness is so transparent. Sanctions are killing them.
4
You don’t put Iran in a corner. Iran may not win, but you can kiss Middle East oil good bye.
2
@Daniel Friedman
How does starting a war with SA help Iran, then?
3
Has anyone told Trump that this is what happens when you mess with Obama's successes? You break the agreement, you get war.
7
@Wally Wolf
I suspect that was the plan
2
The problem here’s pretty simple to understand.
The odds are extremely good that Iran did this. And after their previous provocations, if they did, something physical has to happen. You cannot let well-armed religious nutcakes get away with this sort or thing—and no, sanctions won’t mean jack.
However, that’s simple and obvious. Problem is, Trump can’t be trusted on whether the sun’s out, can’t be bothered to listen to a five-minute briefing, and talks tough much too much. He’s also trashed our allies in Europe, mouthed off about abandoning the world, dumped the JCPOA, flipped all over the map about even talking to Iran—you know the list.
And after Iraq, who would be dumb enough to take thelikes of Pompeo and Bolton at their word?
This is what happens when you elect a lazy, dumb and greedy president who lies like other grownups breathe. You end up without the slightest believability, let alone moral authority.
Then when you need to blow somebody up—and sorry, sometimes you do—you got nothin’ to stand on. And you’ve taught your people that it’s all just lies.
11
Prime motivators for humans are always money, sex or drugs. In this case it is money (oil $). Let the Saudis fight their own battle. We can sell them all the weapons their money can by
5
Just great. Just great!!
Netanyahu pushes the Trump Administration and the world into war within days of his being sidelined. What a legacy.
8
@Greg
Hm. Did Israel bomb Saudi Arabia? I must have missed that. So must have the Houthis, who claimed responsibility. So too the Iranians, who aren’t even blaming Israel.
But like clockwork, Greg “from Lyon” doesn’t miss an opportunity to blame everything on Israel.
3
@them
I have no idea who attacked Aramco (Iran, Mossad, CIA or even MBS). But regardless Netanyahu has promoted, even threatened, attacking Iran. He convinced some American hawks that Iran was an existential threat to Israel when in fact Iran was just a major threat to his colonization project.
Don't care if Iran nukes Jerusalem and Riyadh. Don't care if Pakistan nukes Delhi.
4
Accusations and threats are flying and risks of war are mounting among all the protagonists. The situation is becoming more delicate and fraught with dangers and is becoming scarier and frightening over time.
I always remember President Obama’s doctrine what he used to tell new members to his White House staff and all new political appointments: “Don’t do stupid stuff.”
I wish Iran would admit its guilt in the attacks on Saudi oil processing facilities to avoid all the protagonists from doing “stupid stuff” !!! That may be asking for the impossible. But then the bellicose Trump is essentially a coward, as I have assessed that the Bully in Chief is long on threats and short on delivery. He generally backs down when faced with difficult decisions, such as his threats of escalation on the trade war with China.
3
To Donald Trump and Mike Pompeo:
Do yourselves and us a favor. Instead of toying with “war” go visit in a VA hospital - Walter Reed and more. No phony photo shots with grinning soldiers who have lost their limbs, lost their minds, lost their futures and still love you. You know, those soldiers who have been sent off to wars, that people like you two concocted and forced on our country. You know, those soldiers who believed in US leadership.
Go watch a surgical amputation procedure. Go observe in a rehab those who are learning to walk, speak, feed themselves with no arms. Go talk to families of the wounded, their little kids, their grieving wives, their broken hearted mothers.
You two have no clue. You talk big about being “locked and loaded”. You talk big about “act of war” too.
We are talking about human beings, not plastic little toy soldiers you are playing with.
Our country is not a toy. It’s human beings. And US human beings should never have to worry or be afraid of words coming from you or anyone that are thoughtless, heartless, and careless.
18
@MIMA
Powerful stuff. Every despot should read it.
3
The reason that there are "few good options" is that the U.S. President is following a long-standing U.S. policy of attempted colonization, which is being resisted in the ultra-modern era by countries which believe not only in their own sovereignty, but also in the property rights of all nations as regards natural resources. However, there is another factor which influences that reason, which is that the U.S. President Trump seldom considers people other than himself; he is the ne plus ultra egoist; therefore any action which will, at least in his eyes, embellish his image, will gladly be taken, regardless of the potential consequences, i.e. "War is an extension of policy.". This is particularly dangerous in a situation such as that which is extant as regards the incident on Saturday in the KSA, because the U.S. President Trump likely finds his counterpart in the Saudi Prince... at least when it comes to emotive responses to events. These events, however, have not been proven to involve the IRI. The evidence must be event-specific, and exact, which, according to analysts, it is not. So the question is: Should the world tolerate the imposition of the will of the U.S.A. and the KSA in making a war of conquest on the IRI? The answer of course is no. This potential debacle has been brought on by the image aggrandizing of the U.S. President Trump. It and he should be halted immediately. Perhaps the same should apply to Mohammed bin Salman.
1
There are approximately a million Iranian Americans living in the United States. If there's an all-out war with Iran, we'll unleash dynamics within our borders that can veer out of control. Will there be calls for internment? Will old-line Persian Americans who supported the Shah of Iran turn against more recently arrived Iranian immigrants some of who might be supportive of the current regime? How many Iranians will petition to come to the United States to flee from war and to rejoin their families? How many Iranian Americans currently live in Iran with U.S. passports and green cards ho would seek to return? How would we vet them for national security? What percentage of Americans think that Donald Trump can manage the war without committing a massive violation of civil rights? All signals point to increasing the surveillance over Iran and let the Saudis deal with this for now.
@UC Graduate no iranian-Americans or Persian-Americans support the current regime. Why do you think they’re even here? To get away from the oppressive regime. Even the guys at the Iranian interest section in DC are not fans of the regime but play along for the sake of their jobs. If you really live in LA, you should know that.
1
But that does not prevent discrimination and even internment. Most Americans can't tell an Iranian from an Indian.
1
@as true. Some Americans love to hate.
1
Big talk. The United States could turn Iran's military and industrial infrastructure to rubble inside 24 hours, and everybody knows it. If Iran were to attack civilian targets the response would be even more brutal. They know that too.
3
@PeteH
Wikipedia 'Asymmetric warfare'.
1
@PeteH
Of course Iran knows it..and that is precisely why they didn’t do this attack in Saudi Arabia. They’re not on a suicide mission
3
We find ourselves 2 plus years into the self described 'Stable Genius's' Presidency and the list of foreign policy fiascos continues to mount. Instead of remaining in the Iran Deal with our allies, he withdrew from the agreement with literally no plan for how to move forward with Iran. He simply knew he must dismantle everything that the previous President had done, with no consideration as to the consequences. Well here we are genius with your impetuous and petty actions placing us on the brink of yet another war in the Middle East. What now 'O Brilliant One'?
3
I blame Israel for the precision attack on the Saudi oil facilities. They would benefit from blaming this attack on Iran more than the Iranians would benefit in any way from this attack.
4
None of this would be happening if trump hadn't unilaterally pulled out of the JCPOA for no good reason, and only did so because it was a major accomplishment in international diplomacy by his predecessor - Barack Obama.
God forbid, if this all goes to heck in a MAGA hat, thank one Donald John Trump and the 63 million who bought it and everything else he was selling.
5
Does it strike anyone else as strange that they can find pieces of a missile scattered over hell's half acre, but the location of
Jamal Khashoggi's body is a mystery beyond solving?
In testing domestically produced missiles the Iranians have had some duds. All weapon's programs have failures. A foreign intelligence service could have obtained one of these duds for examination, and later use. As a smoking gun.
8
Keep squeezing them while moving more assets within striking distance of what they deem critical and when the time is right and at a time of our chosen take it all off the table in one shot
Trump’s baseless claim that Iran bombed Saudi Arabia is Gulf of Tonkin 2.0. No American should participate in combat to impose Trump’s lies. We are not Saudi Arabia’s hit men.
5
All out war? Do the Iranian’s understand what that means? Did they not pay attention to what happened to Iraq in 2003? Are they totally blind to our military capacities? It seems so.
1
@DENOTE REDMOND
What DID happen to Iraq in 2003?
I seem to remember people pointing out that the North Vietnamese were 'blind to our military capabilities'.
2
@nolongeradoc
Vietnam was a far different milieu is not a reasonable comparison.
Saudi Arabia started this war, Iran is merely taking advantage of it to increase its influence. The connection between Iran and the Houthis was practically negligible before the Saudis launched what has amounted to a disastrous test of their American provided "toys."
Why we back this savagely murderous country is beyond me.
4
Two thoughts:
Getting into a war is straight out of the Despot's Handbook, the chapter on "How To Deflect Criticism About Your Policies."
We were not attacked, let Saudi Arabia (who is not our friend) defend themselves.
3
How quickly we forget.
All out war, in the age of terrorism, does not mean guns and missiles.
Ready or not.....
Will someone ask the Pentagon how these drones penetrated US provided air security systems?
4
Bring it on! I've been waiting for this since Jimmy Carter botched the rescue attempt ..
1
The hyperbolic rhetoric goes back and forth...for how many years now?
2
Love the way the Western Establishment (and the NYT) talks about the "intelligence community" as if they were some sort of dispassionate, uninvolved arbiters between the West and its chosen enemies!
This is the same "community" that have spent the past 70 years staging false flags, providing disinformation to justify war, engaged in illegal activities at home, overthrown democracies...and so on and on.
Frankly, Donald Trump has more credibility and moral integrity.
10
What is the Gulf of Tonkin and Iraqi WMDs?
2
Who will Trump send to fight a war with Iran? Easy. The sons and daughters of his base, who will have died for nothing. Nothing.
1
Oh, great. Just what we need. Another war.
4
Reality Check our world includes Iran about to change forever . Need for fossile fuels is coming to end as we know it today Once the hyperloop goes intercontinental need for planes an ships will end. Future is brite .
What did Obama so when confronted with something like this?
In Syria, he couldn't even determine who the enemy was. He ended up giving weapons to ISIS!
You are being very dismissive about something you have never experienced. Think about sitting in that chair in the oval office, then tell us how easy it is to determine the correct path.
2
Trump wants a peaceful solution? Go back to Obama’s: that one was working.
4
Iraq all over again! I'm old enough to remember the full on lie assault from the IS government and its pro-war allies. Let's hope everyone else remembers.
30
@rob Not to mention the unintended consequences of that war-- the creation of ISIS.
5
@rob
If "IS government" is merely a typo and you meant "US government", then I agree with your comment.
3
The US military completely dismantled Iraq's military in 3 months during the first Gulf War. Iran and Iraq waged in war for years where neither country could declare victory. The US would make quick work of Iran's 'military'. The only thing they could do is resort to terrorism on allies, which is no small thing.
3
@Not 99pct
Are you proposing an invasion of Iran? Only, the Pentagon is rather less blase than yourself.
@nolongeradoc absolutely 1000% not proposing that. Just stacking US military vs Iran military. Iran could still just wreak havoc locally by launch rockets and missiles at US allies (S. Arabia and Israel), and even attempt some type of 9/11 type terrorism on US soil.
But some response is needed because I don't think Iran is going to stop with these provocations. The difficult part is Iran's actions hasn't resulted in a body count, and in some of them they went through some effort to spare lives, ie the tankers blown up were clearly above the waterline.
In Javad Zarif, Iran has a cool and steady diplomat who exemplifies his country's patience and resolve to stand firm in the face of the threat of aggression against Iran...The Persians are a proud people, Zarif said Iran will not flinch. The whole region might go down in flames. It is not going to be "a beautiful war, a tremendous war".
5
I'm led to understand that a declaration of war requires an act of congress. I can't imagine Trump would get is way with the lower house on that matter. This saber rattling is just more Trump bluster and bluff. However squeezing Iran through ruinous sanctions could have disastrous results. Don't forget the results the Treaty of Versailles had on the future of Germany.
4
Best to strangle the Iranian regime economically. Yes to more sanctions!!! They’re apparently working, and it’s causing desperation with Iranian leaders who are looking to stay in power.
The Iranian government would love an “all out war” to change the subject of the deprivations Iranians are experiencing because of their rogue regime. What’s the point of a hot war, unless and until our so called European allies step up to the plate! They won’t!! And without the support of the American people, the President knows he will be bogged down in a quagmire, which would be bad for his now very optimistic election prospects and legacy.
We do however need to get it together to defend against drone attacks. The Saudi’s and US were asleep at the switch in not being able to detect these attacks being launched.
3
@Bill Weber
Why on earth would your European allies step up to the plate?
Aside from the fact that Trump has, despite their pleadings, trashed the JACPOA - which started as a EU initiative, he has poured scorn and insult on Europe and finally has put sanctions on EU countries because they're a 'national security risk'.
This is your mess. Europe wants nothing to do with it. Go on, leave NATO, the UN, the WTO and so on. You've said you don't need allies.
2
Has Iran released your ship yet, the Stena Impero? Would you like the US to go get it for you? What about the Iranian tanker released from Gibraltar. Where did the Iranians say the cargo would not go and where did it end up? Syria?
1
Does Iran's idea of an "all out war" mean that we use our nuclear arsenal to completely destroy Iran within days, or are they thinking that they use all their weapons while we do not?
In either case, before taking any military action, the US must have solid evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Iran destroyed the Saudi oil facilities and that evidence must be made available to the public.
This is exactly the kind of situation that President Trump has disqualified himself from leading because his incessant torrent of lies has completely destroyed his credibility: almost no one believes a word he says.
5
According to The Intercept, " is this further evidence of how this commander-in-chief is financially compromised by his business connections to the Saudis? As I explained in a video essay last year, the Saudis have been bailing out Trump since the 1990s — and have continued to do so since he entered the White House. “Saudi Arabia … they buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million,” Trump once declaimed. “Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.”
Trump is waiting for the Saudis to give the word they are ready to take out Iran.
4
The Intercept.
Now THAT’S an impeccable source!!
The Iranians know Trump can't afford a war at this time and they would like to see the back of him so they're going to play hit and run and make him look weak and indecisive. They did it to Carter.
1
I don't want war -- and especially not on behalf of Saudi Arabia, an absolutist state and about as unappealing a country as ever came down the pike.
4
Maybe the Iranians read O'Brien's book and agreed that "agreement and retreat" is a bad strategy.
1
Think about how we stopped trusting our government believing in nothing they say.
The US sells weapons to the Saudis who use them to bomb Yemen. The Iranians sell weapons to Yemenis who use them to defend themselves.
So now we will attack iIran on behalf of Saudis for selling weapons to Yemen to defend themselves?
Iran is not a pushover. Think Iraq/Iran war. They have been locked and loaded for 3 thousand years and will be one terrible war for the Saudis. Their glossy Kingdom and Trump Towers in that area will burn. I just fear for our kids being sent yet again into it.
5
These chicken hawks need to pump the brakes, before they walk America into a very painful exsanguination.
War with Iran would be the easiest way to test how willing our government is to reinstate military conscription, and something tells me that most people are not ready to sacrifice their children over Saudi oil.
6
I think the Iranians are smart enough to know that bribery is cheaper and more effective than war.
If I were the Iranians, I'd secretly offer Trump a $100 million Trump Tehran Hotel, on very good terms.
Actually, Iran is a good place for a classy golf course. Golf has a small but enthusiastic following, particularly among women, but their best course is the Revolution Golf Club (formerly the Imperial Golf Club). It's a rough course with lots of sand traps, and the army uses it for tank practice, so it has lots of rough spots. http://www.hkgolfer.com/courses-and-travel/tee-time-tehran If Trump built a terrific golf course, that would be tremendous.
Trump would certainly be more welcome in Iran than in Scotland.
I think the Iranians should have a meeting with Jared Kushner.
4
Let's go to war.
It's been coming for 40 years.
Getting rid of theocracies is among the best things for this world.
1
Where are the Pro-life people? You would think they would be one of the first to openly oppose war which results in death and destruction. They even seem strangely silent on the brutal deaths of the children in Yemen. Not for me to pass judgment but it appears very hypocritical.
6
Is trump eager to go to war because of his low approval ratings and because it is unlikely that he will be reelected in 2020? Adding new sanctions to those already imposed on Iran does nothing but increase the distress distress of the civilian population. Besides, why is this our war? Haven't we sold billions in military equipment to the Saudis? Oh....maybe they have used up all of those incendiary devices on the poor civilians of Yemen!!
4
Curiously, Mr. Trump is enjoying high approval ratings, higher than his predecessor.
1
If war breaks out, Iran will fall and Daesh will try to fill the chaos vacuum.
4
This is what happens when you have a completely unqualified person as president. If Trump, who seems so jealous of Obama, had not backed out of the Iran deal we would not be in this mess. This is why the next president has to be prepared to clean up the messes left by Trump - national and international. We don’t need anymore amateurs in the Oval Office.
5
Iran is creating a new dynamic in the Middle East which will sideline the Palestinians, Egyptians and Jordanians and empower the Gulf States who will now seek to integrate further with the Israelis to deter Iranian aggression. But make no mistake the war is already here and the battlefield will involve the entire region. Iran, Hizbollah, HAMAS, Palestinian Islamic Jiihad, QUDs, IRG and the Ayatollahs and Nasrallah are now all in a death spiral against foes with greater resources and greater capabilities. The war has been hot for some time now and Iranian attacks on Saudi Arabia proper could embolden Hizbollah to attack Israel - Bibi's electoral loss changes nothing - the existential threat posed by the Iranian revolutionary ideology which seeks to establish a pan-SHIA state will lead to WWW III. Those who think the USA can sit this one out do not understand the region or the importance of Gulf Oil and Gas to Asia and Europe. The USA tried to sit out WW II also - but ultimately, we are in the line the fire today just as much as we were on 9-11. Ignoring provocations will only hasten the beginning of the next regional war. Deterrence must be established or the dogs of war will run across the fertile crescent from Tehran to Beruit. The US Navy had better cowboy up for what comes next.
2
Why, as in WHY, is it in the interests of America (forget about Trump) to do the work for a 21st century “kingdom” and a “crown prince”. They’re going to pay us? Tell them we don’t do windows. And Trump still has 411 days to go. AND, re-election wouldn’t surprise me at all!
6
What if all of this is a Trump Regime construct; engineering a war with Iran has seemed fairly desirable in the game of Presidential Top Trumps, that President Trump (PT) began playing in January 2017.
I mean, recall June's unconvincing
night-time/heavy Polaroid video presentation given by PT, who said the images were of Iranian Revolutionary Guards removing extraneous limpet mines from the hull of a ship? Directly contradicting the owners and operators of the 'Kukoka Courageous' who announced their crew's observations of "flying objects" in the vicinity of the ship, just before the hull was struck?
Wars are seen as advantageous by unscrupulous political ponces needing to win votes. At times, counter-intuitively. Even so, I would be shocked if this were just such an attempt.
1
An attack on Saudi oil fields is not an attack on the US. Iran and SA hate each other, Sunnis (Wahabis) and Shias. Why should we be the ones to respond? Time for a revitalized anti-war movement.
93
@Lennyg
I'd say let them go at it and we can sit on the side lines ensuring it does not spill.
What I would be worried about, is that a million people will take this as an excuse to migrate to Europe 'escaping the war', like they did in Syria.
That would have dire consequences, larger than these two duking it out for a week or so.
1
@Lennyg It is an attack on the world oil supply, not SA singly. Will the 'world' put up that? the USA can, since we have become energy self-sufficient (basically).
@ComradeBrezhnev
Maybe countries dependent on Saudi Arabian oil should tell them to stop bombing Yemen then. That seems like an easier solution than going to war with Iran. It has the additional virtue of being the right thing to do.
1
Some people in this comments section are dismissive of Iran's military capabilities. Underestimating the extent to which Iran can harm the United States and the American people in something approximating an "all out war" would be a grave, hubristic error.
A conventional military response from Iran is not what is most feared in such a scenario, but mobilization of Iran's incredibly well trained and organized proxy forces against soft US targets.
Activation of Hezbollah sleeper cells in the US is reason enough to avoid any kinetic conflict with Iran barring absolute necessity. An attack on Saudi oil does not meet such a threshold in my opinion.
10
@Dejected DCist
The real victims in a so called “War” would be Iranian. Especially when Kharg Island Oil Terminal is immediately destroyed thereby bringing Iran’s economy to its knees. Israel - a major missile capable nuclear power - has let it be known that a Hezbollah attack will destroy both Lebanon and Iran in short order. Iran’s Mullahs have long had an “open mouth War policy”. Lacking a modern miitarymilitary they’ve spent over $10 billion seeking nuclear weapons. Imagine what Iranians with nukes could do the planet ! Most every strategic analyst here agrees the Mullahs are desperately trying to maintain power and secure nuclear weapons.
@Dejected DCist
So you say we have sleeper cells embedded already? And best not do anything to make them angry? If they are here we do need to know about it so let's start the party now. And, probably a good time to stop letting sleeper cells into the country I am sure you would agree? Travel ban?
@Peter I Berman Include among your victims hundreds to 1000+ New Yorkers in a 9/11 style attack that Hez units are more than capable of carrying out with breathtaking success. Americans are by and large not interested in that consequence even if the end result is a strategic victory against Iran in a conventional sense.
This article states that the US believes that the drones came from the north or northwest.
The US has amble military forces in the Gulf, including a carrier group with the most sophisticated radar and air defense systems. It is hard to believe that these forces could not track a half dozen drones, even if they were flying low.
Our systems are designed to detect aircraft of all types at all altitudes. So where are our radar tapes?
The Iranians have been fairly predictable in their actions in the Gulf. For example, when Israel bombed their forces in Syria they did not response. But Israeli intelligence said that this is Iran's pattern. If hit, they will choose a target and retaliate, but will do so on their own time table and only use proportionate force.
If the Israeli's are correct then there must have been some triggering event if the drones really did come from Iran.
The US has clandestine forces in Iraq that have in the past been used against Iran. In one such attack an Iranian border guard was killed. Could it be that our government is not giving us the full picture here?
There are too many questions, too much doubt and too many players that would like to trigger a US war with Iran.
Trump is right to be cautious and after the WMD lies the American people are right to be suspicious.
11
@Drspock
Well gee, if the Aircraft Carrier Strike Group was in the Area of the Oil Refineries maybe they would have seen it. They are mostly concerned with the area around them you do realize? Why would they be searching for drones in an area well away from where they can be attacked?
Iranians are predictable. That's why its clear this is them. Of course, when you expect an Aircraft Carrier Strike Group to be able to detect drones well away from them maybe not so much to you.
1
"A military strike against Iran by the United States or Saudi Arabia would result in “an all-out war,” the Iranian foreign minister,"
Isn't that precisely what Trump's wanted all along?
Why is the U.S. getting involved in the first place?
Since when has Saudi Arabia been a friend to the U.S.?
8
@Marge Keller
I believe they were behind the World Trade Center and Washington attacks on 9/11, so I assume that's why we're supporting them?
3
@Marge Keller
We dont have"friends" in the Middleeast save Israel.
This Shiite/Sunni conflict is a millennia old. Our interests there are simply about oil. If we abandon the Saudis then the Chinese will happily accommodate them with weapons and a market for Saudi oil which would be detrimental to the west.
Trump has acknowledged they aren't "nice" people.
I recall a situation in the late eighties when the US accidentally shot down an Iranian commercial flight; offering financial compensation to the victim’s families some years later, however never issued a formal apology . . . a position spearheaded by then VP Bush Sr.
Now of course not to overlook Iran’s ‘incidents’ over thirty-odd years since, but one cannot ignore the unwavering arrogance from both sides that continues to be rather costly.
3
Actually they did issue a formal apology and the US paid hundreds of millions of dollars to the families.
1
@Chris McClure NOT TRUE.
George H. W. Bush responded by saying, “I will never apologize for the United States of America—I don’t care what the facts are.”
In fact: Members of the USS VINCENNES crew were awarded medals.
The USS VINCENNES was in Iranian territorial water and its tapes show that the Iran Air flight 655 was in Mode 3–the plane was ascending through 12,000 feet at 380 knots within the established commercial air route over Iranian territorial water and its transponder was squawking the plane’s identity over a civilian channel.
This was during the Iran Iraq war—the same one that the US supplied Saddam chemical and other weapons with to kill over a million Iranians.
290 people died. 66 of which were children.
4
This seems to be yet another situation were the public is being manipulated by a slow drip-drip-drip of selected information coming out of Saudi Arabia. Instead, we are treated to worthless information like: "American and Saudi officials have said that the strikes came from the north or northwest — in the direction of Iran or Iraq — and not from Yemen..."
Why aren't they disclosing when they first became aware of the attack? Were they tracking these drones visually, thermally or by radar? Were there any electronic signals emanating from the aircraft?
No doubt we will learn more as the political situation unfolds, and the information flow is manipulated so as to fit whatever political needs arise.
7
Pottery barn rules: Trump broke the Iran deal, now he owns the aftermath.
Does the Iranian government read T the same way that Kim does? Possibly. A bunch of tough talk up front might work when bullying through a real estate deal, but the stakes for the other side in both of these situations are existential. T taking us into another war will be a disaster militarily and politically, and he knows it. He’s already losing the (easy) trade war where he’s tried the same tactics.
Leave it to the Saudis to respond. The attack was on their facilities, not ours.
5
@Ken W
What did Obama so when confronted with something like this?
In Syria, he couldn't even determine who the enemy was. He ended up giving weapons to ISIS!
You are being very dismissive about something you have never experienced. Think about sitting in that chair in the oval office, then tell us how easy it is to determine the correct path.
1
Maybe I missed it but was anyone killed when Saudi Arabia's oil facilities were damaged? I don't recall any deaths.
That being said, just how proportionate a response is a military strike against Iran by Saudi Arabia and/or the United States? Starting a war where people will die is considered appropriate and proportionate?
Instead of sanctions or other options, let's just reach for the guns and bombs and other weapons of mass destruction?
Iran has nuclear capabilities. Doesn't Trump or the Saudi crown prince realize that?
4
The US has no friends in the millennium "disagreement" between Shia and Sunni, only interests and those interests are not worth the deaths of Americans nor the moral or financial expense.
4
I find it interesting that Israel is completely silent in this. They are as technologically advanced as the U.S. in many ways and a crow does not fly in the mideast without their knowledge. They should also have lots of data to present to the world confirming the flight of the drones came from Iran. The Russians are in Syria and surely they know what is going on there as well. And I have complete faith that India has advanced enough satellite technology to confirm as well.
But, the only people claiming that Iran did this is the country that started this by declaring war by imposing sanctions (which is an act of war). This is the same country that ran to the U.N. with its claim of "yellow cake uranium" years ago to justify starting a war. .
6
Trump’s behavior has all but guaranteed we will have no support from our allies around the world. The Pompeo/Trump road show at the UN will be met with silence from our allies, or worse it could backfire with calls from member nations for U.S. to end sanctions against Iran. Our power in the world under Trump is dissolving before our eyes.
7
What would all out war be for Iran? Total loss of any military capabilities in 10 days. Complete economic ruin in 15.
2
@clarity007
That's what Bush thought when invading Afghanistan. We're still no closer to defeating the Taliban than we were 18 years ago.
7
Iran is not ungoverned space, as opposed to Afghanistan, which is.
2
@clarity007 what calculator are you using to come up with that number?
This sort of arrogance will come back to bite.
There is literally nobody on the side of the US in this fiasco. There have been published reports on what a catastrophic and drawn-out situation would result from a war with Iran. It’s a big country. Its landscape is highly varied. And it’s how many miles away from the US? Not to mention Russia/China backing.
4
"...though they have not provided clear evidence for that claim." Not good for peace in the Middle East. Secretary Pompeo fails to mention Yemeni atrocities committed by "civilized" countries such as Saudi Arabia with it's "benevolent" allies: America, Britain and the UAE. "Fight to the last American" is a losing strategy. Like General Patton said during WW2: " No one ever won a war by dying for their country; let the other sucker die for his country."
It is a different and more difficult proposition to enter a war when your own daughters and sons are sacrificed. Body bags are clear evidence that war is not a pleasant affair. Fighting an unjust war for a dubious cause on behalf of an undemocratic ally is not conducive to peace, Mr. Pompeo.
It is precisely American manpower that will be sacrificed while the Saudis and Iranians have no incentive to discuss peace/co-existence terms. Poor diplomacy by Mr. Pompeo. Let Saudi Arabia and Israel bell the Iranian cat.
3
I am following US politics closely since 2016 (for obvious reason) and, honestly speaking, I despise Mr. Trump.
But, I do think that Mr. Trump is not a warmonger and reading here that he is reluctant to go into a war makes me say the first time "Well done, Mr. President!"
3
Wait. Isn't it the decision of Congress to start wars?
There is no "emergency" here. This has been going on for years. There is no need for the President to make some move because of time pressure.
8
If I remember my history correctly, FDR went before Congress to ask them personally for a declaration of war against Japan, which had blatantly attacked our naval resources, air services and ground forces stationed in Hawai’i, United States territory. If the Iranians staged this drone strike against Saudi Arabia, a sovereign nation not a part of the US, would The Donald ask Congress for such a declaration? How could he justify it, and how could Congress even consider it appropriate? We’ve seen this movie before ( see Gulf of Tonkin or Iraq, 2003).
3
The naivete of some of the people commenting here is astounding. They think it's just oil. No, it's not. It's about a world-wide struggle to maintain our position of power. Any weakness and the likes of China and Russia are on standby to swoop in and relegate us to 2nd class power and dictate what we do. For those who say, that's what we have been doing all along (dictating to the world), I agree. That's the only position we need to be at.
12
This may come as a shock, but real power and ordering everybody else around are different.
6
@Pat
"China and Russia are on standby to swoop in" to the most oil rich area on earth.
We don't give a lick about most nations in Africa, South America, or Southeast Asia. Heck, we and Europe fumed by didn't do anything aggressive during the Crimean incident. Yet we are suddenly willing to go to war on behalf of Saudi Arabia?
It's OIL.
It's the only reason China and Russia would care about some desert region.
Our own government says its oil. [Loosely] from Pompeo: "This is an attack on the world's energy supply."
And with good reason. Our current power structure is largely built around the world oil supply and our own reserves. Without it, our the mobile aspects of our Army/Air Force/Marines can't function, the non-nuclear vessels of the Navy are paralyzed (the nuclear ones won't be far behind due to lack of support), and our transportation infrastructure collapses, relegating us to localized economies.
Simply put, if we don't have oil, we can't move. If we can't move, our world position of power collapses.
If you want real security and real power for our nation, support ways to move away from oil as the only mobile energy source.
5
@Pat
Hi, Pat, so you would be willing to pick up a gun yourself and go fight for the Saudis to prove the US is top dog in the world?
57,000 dead in Viet Nam. We really showed the world then huh??
250 in Lebanon. Who would a thought a guy driving a truck.
God knows how many in the 14 years we've been proving how tough we are in Persia.
Trump help create this situation because the US always tries look tough and/or shoot it's problems instead of talking, which by the way prevented world war three with Russians in the Cuban mess in the 60's. I lived through ONE.
6
Where is your front page editorial stating that if the US attacks Iran it (the US) will be in violation of the UN Charter, which, since the US is a signatory to it, is the supreme law of the land?
The only lawful choice the US has in this matter is to take the matter to the UN. Your not saying so means that you are condoning other possibilities, none of which are legally permissible.
22
@FM
To amend my remark—
But the US has no basis to take the matter to the UN since the US was not attacked. It's for the Saudis to do so. If the Saudis get approval, time for them to discuss with the US getting some help.
The related article is titled "President Trump's national security officials will meet to discuss options for a possible military strike on Iran."
There are no options for a U.S. military strike on Iran. None. None whatsoever that are legal.
Don't you think you should point this out in a updated version of this story? Isn't the fact that there are no legal options just as much news as the fact that a few people in Washington are thinking about doing something illegal?
Your not pointing out that a military strike by the US would be illegal gives the impression that you would approve of it.
3
@FM - What about the US Constitution, which vests exclusive war making power in CONGRESS!
2
@Bill Wolfe you are further making FM’s point. The US is not some country by itself in the world. It shouldn’t just make decisions on it’s own as whether who it should orphan next. The US wasn’t attacked. End of story.
3
If deep and serious bloodshed or destruction (or both) come out of this, it will be totally the fault of our country. For years, and now with great intensity, we have waged enormous, plenary economic warfare on the people of Iran. To cry foul now that Iran has begun to respond is simply preposterous.
Moreover, the U.S. under the Second Bush government cynically rejected a serious effort of Iran to respond favorably across several demands we had after 9/11, in a churlish effort to drive Israel's agenda through the military and economic power of the U.S. Those demands included both her nuclear power and her involvement with Israel's adversaries.
Whatever faults can be laid to Mr. Obama, he made a serious and even heroic effort to reverse this trend in his nuclear power agreements. The Trump regime, under Mr. Pompeo's phony version of Christian eschatology, has smashed Mr. Obama's responsibility and brought us to the brink.
Neither he nor Mr. Trump will escape the verdict of history if it comes to blood that will saturate our hands. Mr. Trump measures his success not by what it will do to promote peace or brotherhood among nations, but by its power to satisfy his limitless passion for vengeance on Mr. Obama and anybody else he happens to hate, from day to day. The American people as a whole will not escape the consequences of this and we will pay a price for it big-time if war comes out of it.
35
Our intellectually challenged President tweeted “ there is still plenty of time to do something dastardly in Iran “. Will someone show him how to use the dictionary app on his phone. It’s easier than tweeting. Dastardly means cruel and wicked. Totally inappropriate choice of words, especially since he had thrown fuel onto a smaller fire when he pulled out of our agreement with Iran without thinking it through. But, a sociopath will never acknowledge remorse or guilt over their actions.
42
@BB I think Trump (inadvertently) used exactly the right word, dastardly. Just about every policy coming out of this regime IS cruel and wicked. The word dastardly was not inappropriate it was spot-on.
1
The problem is Trump, not Iran. Trump unilaterally reneged on the Iran Deal that was negotiated and signed by the United States, along with Russia, the U.K., France, China, and the E.U. All of the signatories want the Deal to remain in place.
59
My advice to the ayatollah, stop poking the traitor. He doesn’t care about anyone but himself. Keep your head down, work with everyone else on this planet, stop installing mouthpieces that threaten Israel and prove to the world that it’s Trump threatening world peace. I understand your military abilities, you can shut down the gulf, but at what price. Russia will help you until they don’t need you, so tread carefully.
9
If Zarif wants war, we could give to him while minimizing loss of life.
The greatest KSA/US reply would be to destroy the Iranian oil terminals at Bandar-e Emam Khomeyni, Jazireh-ye Khark, Abadan, Bushehr, Kangan and Jazireh-ye Lavan.
This would put Iran completely our of business. No more oil to the world , including Syria and North Korea, for an extended period. No more oil money to pay their soldiers and allies in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Yemen.
7
Excellent suggestion.
1
No one was hurt, the Saudis will make a killing on the spike in oil prices, and all goes back to normal within a months’ time. If Saudi Arabia thinks this is cause for a confrontation with Iran, they should have at it. We sold them enough weapons to make quite the ruckus. That our foreign and domestic policy, affecting the lives of hundreds of millions, originates from the Twitter room of the White House, is truly pathetic, and frightening.
19
They may get one very soon.
1
"Wag the dog" ....
8
Where is the fire and fury when we want it?Trump will say and do anything to vex his critics. Such a sadist.
2
Can you spell Gulf of Tonkin?
14
A US war with Iran would be catastrophic—witness the carnage that occurred during the Iraq-Iran conflict. This is precisely the reason why renewable and non-fossil fuel energy sources are critical: fossil fuels have too many geopolitical consequences that lead to conflict. The United States already made an arrogant miscalculation by going into Afghanistan after the Soviets pulled out. Let’s not repeat that mistake with Iran.
26
I am afraid President Trump and Mike Pompeo might start a war with Iran even though Trump is saying otherwise. We do not want any more wars..
Why are we having any relation with Saudi Arabia? No one can deny that Saudi Arabia is the biggest oil power but we do not need their oil. The Saudis are financing jihadist groups and showing weak participation in fighting ISIS. Saudi Arabia supported the 9/11 terror attacks, we cannot forget those facts. What more do you want to break relations with the Saudis?
Iran is a major Shiite power and they have not attacked us in any direct way. This conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia is a clash of civilizations between the Sunnis and the Shiites and we have no business to get involved in this age old sectarian war. If the US starts a war with Iran, Iranians have no other options other than fighting back. Iran is worried about its own survival.
The attack on the Suadi oil fields probably came from the Houthis. " Analysts for the United Nations and Western governments have said that Iran supplies weapons to the Houthis"
9
Saudi Arabia is not a U.S. ally. They are an economic partner. There is a big difference.
14
What Trump likes to refer to as Obama's "terrible deal with Iran that never should have been made" is looking awfully good right about now.
38
@Neil Grossman
Yeah, if you are wearing Rose Colored Glasses I am sure it is. Otherwise, you would see an Iran that has Hijacked Shipping, Attacked Oil Fields and is threatening to continue to do both until they gain concessions. Take those glasses off and you will see it for what it is, Blackmail. So we signed the JCPOA under the threat of Blackmail? Or was Iran a 'good actor' when it was signed?
Pax Americana Put on Notice !
I’m making a very serious statement that we don’t want war; we don’t want to engage in a military confrontation,” he added. “But we won’t blink to defend our territory.”
2
“Iran is fighting back, and now we have a major threat to global oil markets, not to mention Iran’s walk back from nuclear commitments,”
All of this is the fault of Trump and his nationalistic views. I am so sick of this country shouting and blustering about at the world, trying to dominate every other country through its economic and military power.
If you want to talk about terrorism, you don't have to look far; it is right in our own back yard. It is us. The US government is the biggest terrorist by far on the face of the earth. No other organization, no other government comes close. Every other nation on earth realizes this. That is why Trump has little support from other nations.
So far, Trump has not started a war, though he has come close. We can only hope he continues to avoid war.
11
@Tom Krebsbach - I agree with you. We make the Romans look like a bunch of nuns doing the work of the Lord.
1
It is absolute madness for the U.S. to consider military retaliation for an attack on Saudi Arabia. They were attacked, we were not. We have been selling the Saudi's advanced weaponry for decades. If they think the attack came from Iran, they should do their own retaliation.
12
Presidential bluff called... time to back away from this losing hand, not double down by going all in.
11
Since when is Saudi Arabia an ally? Our allies in the EU are not going to support a war. Trump is financially dependent on Saudi Arabia, not the United States.
He has been in treasonous dialogue with Putin and has shut down a whistle blower. How long are we going to put up with this incompetence and corruption? If he goes against Congress and starts WWIII, we are all doomed.
7
Trump wants a peaceful path forward, who believes that? He already had that with the Iran Agreement Obama was able to put in place.
12
Trump doesn't have a clue. Of course, he's smarter than anyone else so now painted himself into a corner, out of his spite for Obama, and Iran knows this. They have outsmarted him at every turn. They know if he starts a war, there is no way he has a snowballs chance of being elected in 2020.
6
Where is our Democratic congress . I would like to hear them say we will stop Trump and the war mongers GOP from getting into WWlll . Russias Putin warned us last year after Trump and the bully GOP sent the big bomb to Afghanistan if we bomb any more of their allies we will experience catastrophic events. Dirty ,toxic oil is no reason to go to war . If the Dems were in charge at the White House we would be using hydrogen fuels by now. Very sad to live in a country with out of control mentally the GOP supporters.
7
@D.j.j.k. - "If the Dems were in charge at the White House we would be using hydrogen fuels by now."
The last time the Dems were in the White House, they promised to stop the war in Afghanistan within 16 months. Even with control of all three branches of government, they could not accomplish this.
Instead, they go on record as having been at war longer than any other U.S. president and they made record weapons sales in the region to just about anyone who asked.
Regarding hydrogen fuels - ask yourself this about the Dems. Have they all sold their gas guzzling vehicles and bought a Tesla? They can all afford one and for zipping around D.C., they are perfect. Or, do they still hop into caravans of huge SUVs with lousy mileage just to drive down the street to another building? How many frequent flier miles have the Dem candidates racked up just this year alone?
We have had Dems (and Repubs) all of my 60+ years on this planet and neither party is serious about anything but making money for themselves and their cronies.
1
“‘I was here on an act of diplomacy!’”
I met with the guy who dismembered a Washington Post journalist, and with the other country responsible for killing thousands of civilians in Yemen, and creating what the UN calls “the world’s worst man made human catastrophe.”
Be proud Pompeo.
A shameless president, surrounded by shameless extremist appointees, produces shameful US policies, claims and frequently lies.
Why would the world listen?
24
Agreed. Pompeo calling himself a diplomat - after non-stop immediate aggression since his first day on the job - is a joke.
I will never forget that first press conference with MBS after the Khashoggi situation where he rushed off to Saudi and sat there grinning. He could have at least tried to look more serious.
He now chastises the Iranian foreign minister for aggressive language when the man has said they would defend themselves when attacked. Meanwhile Trump and Pence wander around using the stupid phrase “locked and loaded” at will. However, that is apparently ok?
Pompeo you are supposedly the world’s foremost foreign minister by way of the country you represent. Start trying to act/speak like it.
3
When is the Iran government going to stop repressing its people and allow them the basic human rights that every man and woman should enjoy? Be very afraid, dictators, the Iranian people will come for you.
5
@Bill You may add Putin, Netanyahu, Erdogan, the Saudi Royals and Trump Family into the mix of repressors? The people will come for them too.
1
Yay! We get a war time reality TV President show!!
Nothing good on Fixed tonight anyway and who knows. Maybe the protest voter will get voted of the the couch and vote next time.
2
A loud, demonstrated lunatic is not my preferred personality profile for a president leading our nation into still another Middle East war.
9
Remember the Great War.
4
What I remember about WWI is that after Germany was defeated in 1919, it rearmed and started WWII.
1
Any war needs to be quick and surgical. Take out the unelected, illegitimate, Twelver, religious-fanatic dictators who illegally run the fake so-called "islamic republic of" Iran and took it over by force of arms.
End of problem.
Restore democracy.
(No one needs to remind me that about 70 years ago we wrongfully removed an Iranian leader and replaced him with the Shah.)
2
@MIKEinNYC GOP Chant "Profits; Money; War; " Good. People; education; healthcare; Bad.
3
@MIKEinNYC
I don't know of any war I would call surgical, unless we're talking about a surgeon who makes incisions with an assault rifle..
3
We attacked Iran so they are getting back to us.
1
No matter how this will be spinned, Trump maximum pressure brought nothing to nobody( US, Israel, or the US). Turns out Iran is the winner! If trump does not go to war, he loses, if he does the GI would not come back for another 20-30 years. Iran is not Irak. To borrow a bushism : Trump "misunderestimated" the ayatollahs!
4
Remember Saddam Hussein promising us “the mother of all battles” if we invaded Iraq?
They lasted about two days against our military.
5
@Raz,
Yeah but it dragged on for 12 years, thousands of innocents died and we spent trillions of our money. We were wounded and are still slowly bleeding out from it.
5
@Raz Yes, but we are still fighting that war one way or another. ISIS is the product of that war and it's not over yet.
5
Yeah, and our troops are still there. Huge victory for US.
Not
3
Those who vote for war need to go fight it. They and their children on the front lines.
15
@RCJCHC With our bone-spur president leading the ground battle from the front.
3
Good work, Trump. More Republican Wars!
You haven't paid for the last four!!
11
If Saudi Arabia wants a second war. Let them fight it first. Let them put the blood of their people. Especially the ones so comfortable in murdering journalists on the front line.
I am sick of the US being the attack dog of this county run by murderous cowards and war criminals. Saudi Arabia is not a country we should be defending, it is a country we should be putting under sanctions.
19
I would never underestimate Iran or its resolve. They are not afraid to defend themselves or to stand up for what they think is right.
5
The last thing this world needs is another stupid fossil fuel war! Time to bring in all the alternatives of solar, wind and stationary hydrogen plants and leave behind our fossil fuel addiction and the insanity of its' wars. New ways requires new leaders!
8
They should lob more bombs at the saudis. How much will trumpeo love them when their power is tanked.
@Vivien Hessel - "...when their power is tanked."
Nice choice of words.
1
Remind me again who sponsored the 9/11 attacks?Hint it rhymes with AudiWho is dropping US made bombs on Yemen? Hint it rhymes with Audi. Who sponsored and carried out the murder of Khashoggi? Hint rhymes with Audi.Why on earth to we continue to kiss the back side of these clowns?Oh wait....money!
19
@Morris Lee So right. I'm glad you mentioned the warcrimes and atrocities the Saudis are committing in Yemen with our assistance. I'm still waiting for a reason the Trump administration has demonized Iran, other than our "friendship" with MBS. To me it looks like Iran is simply looking after their own interests-- much like everybody else.
3
Listening to the leaders of Iran. Saudi Arabia and America exchange threats and insults, it is hard to believe these idiots are leaders of countries.
7
Did Trump and his far-right republican strategists not see this coming.
First, they break a treaty that was agreed to by not just the USA but all leaders of the world.
Then they increase the pain of sanctions and embargos that has Iran suffer economically.
What do they think Iran would do? Did they examine history at all to see the Iranians would not back down during the long Iraq/Iran war that cost them hundreds of thousands of lives?
"Seat of the pants" diplomacy has weakened America. Gun Boat diplomacy that leads to war will not change anything in the Middle East except drive us into more debt and lost American lives.
115
@Barney Feinberg 2,500 children killed by guns in 2017 and 40,000 people total. War in the Middle East will not stop the terrorists in our own country who continue to have access to weapons of war. Bring our military home and clean up our own mess with automatic weapons on our streets. Middle East terrorists haven't killed anywhere near this many people in the US.
17
@Barney Feinberg One might almost think they want it.
@Barney Feinberg Trump does what he should do, not what the popular consensus wants him to do. That's why he was hired Watch and see how well he handles this. Here, I'll hold your beer.
Remember Pearl Harbor! The Japanese attack was precipitated by economic strangulation in cutting off their supply of oil. They didn't just decided one day to bomb. Our politicians should let the lessons of history provide some guidance. While sanctions might sound benign as a weapon from the outside, it has profound effects on a restricted country. Like the laws of physics for every action there is a reaction, and I have little confidence that the current administration has the capacity to understand the depth of unintended consequences.
12
Isn't it enough that the US waged war indirectly through their proxy, Saddam, for 8 long years, 8 years when no one would arm the Iranians even though they were not the aggressors? Of course, that was back when Saddam was a good friend of the US, one of the good guys. Does no one remember the US coup of 1953 that replaced a democratically elected government with the brutal Shah?
Of course Iran would wage all out war as it would be another war for their very survival. How much is enough?
12
Want to really constrain Iran?
Reduce the world's dependence on oil! Support electric vehicles and more efficient ships and planes, and eliminate heating oil (replacing with electricity from offshore wind, solar, etc.).
Not only will you show Iran, but you'll also get credit for saving us from climate change.
5
First, Trump ripped up an accord that was agreed upon by many countries and said he would get a better deal. This despite everyone agreeing that Iran had not broken the agreement and was not going forward with developing nuclear weapons.
Then our Secretary of State added a dozen more demands on Iran that had nothing to do with the original agreement. There was no incentive for Iran to agree, nothing extra added to our part.
We followed with sanctions that didn't just punish Iran's leaders but made the people of Iran really suffer. Many of the younger Iranians do not like their theocratic leadership, but everyone suffered together.
Now Trump says he is willing to talk with no preconditions, the same offer he made to Kim that got nowhere.
Trump is creating damage that may never be fixed. How is any country ever going to trust our word again . He did the same thing with the Paris accords, and that was done with allies, not enemies.
If Trump decides on war, the Europeans who did not agree on ripping up the accord will not support that, and rightly so.
Our "master of the deal" doesn't know anything but to bluster and demand face to face meetings. It seems obvious that he never has a plan of what to do and intends to freewheel one on one. It is also obvious that other countries cannot trust anyone who speaks for Trump, as he is inconsistent it what he says from hour to hour, and probably never remembers what his people have offered as a solutionl.
10
@Jerry S Trump says, "locked and loaded"? Did he fight in Viet Nam?
1
This was all a setup to attack Iran, in my humble opinion. Regime change has been the agenda for years and with Israel and Saudi Arabia thinking Trump may not be re-elected, and they are not sure how much influence they will have over a new American president, it appears now is the time. And notice mostly quiet from the Democrats. Sad what our country has become
13
@e.s.
If you're Bibi Netanyahu, facing re-election and knowing it's going to be close (which turns out it has been) all these recent incidents that Iran is blamed for must feel like manna from Heaven. Given the non-stop b/s coming from Trump, Netanyahu and the Saudis it feels more than naive to ask the question: is this just a coincidence?
1
If Mr. Zarif says that Iran didn't strike Saudi Arabia, and neither did the Houthis, I wonder who he thinks did it? Aliens perhaps?
@Roger We have met the Aliens, and they are us?
4
@Roger hate to push conspiracy theories but a few others could have benefited from the timing of this: Israel (Bibi/elections knowing he wasn’t polling well), Russia (arms sales/oil sales/getting others entangled while they push forward with their agenda), SA (changing of headlines/SEO-ing 9/11 content...They even called it “their 9/11”), and US? It’s typical Republican pre-election strategy and would benefit a multitude of companies. It is politics, after all.
2
If the house of Saud is overthrown, do we bomb Saudi airfields to prevent Iran from inheriting a massive air force?
Do we take it's navy out too?
I have always thought that all the weapons they bought would one day be used against us.
7
I get dividends on oil. Since I dont get interest rates on savings I say go to war to make up my loss of interest on my CD's. Yea lives may be lost but to bad. I need to live after retirement.
1
This is meant to be sarcastic to point out the little man gets screwed either way. Sending our troops over oil to get killed is unnecessary.
3
@I have had it I do believe that if we intervene on Saudi's behalf they will pay us.
No reason to worry...yet. Our elections are still a long way off. But he will surely get us into a war immediately before the election in order to boost his chances of stealing another one.
5
That's very good for the USA, because the USA is not very good at conducting limited warfare. But given how glaringly narrow the quotation marks are, I fear that this headline is a mere reflection of the fact that the publisher would like to sensationalize the story.
Now, on to the real questions raised by the idea of "all out war" with Iran: what is their nuclear capability. Because we've been told that the so-called Iran "deal" had solved that problem, and it's been not so long that Iran could have legitimately built up nuclear capability if it had been abiding by the deal!
1
@Gene
I read that the IAEA is still inspecting in Iran.
2
@Gene The USA is not very good at any kind of war. The most we can hope for is a phyric victory, you know, the one where we destroy everything.
2
It is still a proxy war between iran and sa fought in yemen. Why is the usa even interested except for arms sales? Perhaps because the sold weapons are not useful? Sell sa 200 billion more arms and wish them good luck!
1
War or capitulation were the only options given to Iran when you withdrew from JCPOA. A renegotiated deal was never an option, as neither Iran or the US could loose face. Iran is now in the position of knowing that Trump is against war, and is worried by his reelection chances if the economy slows more or reaches recession levels. They also know that the only support you will get are from the Gulf Monarchies, who are incapable of taking on Iran themselves, and Israel who might have a new leader, less sympathetic to Trump and besides will be a toxic partner for the Arabs to work with, from their domestic perspective.
Iran will now continue to attack in mid/smale scale , just enough to keep the world worried and enough to keep you from all out war.
How did we get here? It's not Trump's fault entirely, but he has certainly not been a good negotiator here or shown much of a strategic thinking capacity, and rallying most the world the around the despicable regime in Tehran,speaks volumes of little regard most of the world has for the US today!
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@Mark Eliasson
Trump thinks that negotiation is bullying the suppliers for his casinos and stiffing them on the bill, or setting up a partnership so that he cashes out first and everybody else gets stuck when they go bankrupt.
In the Iranians, he's finally met negotiators who are better and smarter than him, and able to call his bluff.
5
@Mark Eliasson
War or Capitulation were the only options Iran gave the West when we signed the JCPOA and we Capitulated. So now the choices continue to be war or capitulation but someone else is in the White House. Those really the only two options on the table, and it is Iran making that choice not us, we won't be the ones capitulating.
This makes no sense. Why would Iran attack Saudi Arabia and then deny it? Why would the Houthi claim they attacked Saudi Arabia if they didn't? That part of the world has gone bonkers. In any event, let the Saudis deal with it. They have all these new armaments from the US, so they can use them if they so wish.
4
war is good for the economy because it'll create manufacturing jobs, wars are easy to win just like trade wars, since we are already locked and loaded, we should show Iran some fire and fury, courtesy from the greatest US president of all time, no. 45, period..
1
I am not in favor of risking one US soldiers life to defend Saudi Arabian oil infrastructure. I don't care if Iran did attack them, these two religious sects have been hostile for centuries towards one another. We sold the Saudis weapons( which they use to bomb innocent people in Yemen). Let them sort it out. War with Iran would be catastrophic for both sides. They wont retreat like Saddams Iraqi army did
8
Thankfully, in a perverse way, having alienated and distanced ourselves from our friends and allies, we will not be able to put together any sort of coalition. If there is one up side to Trump's bungling foreign policy it is we are alone and maybe, just maybe this will give us pause from going off into another disastrous Middle East regime change war. Personally, if I were one of our friends and allies I would tell us thanks, but no thanks. And let the Saudis fight their own battles. If it's about oil security that we are concerned about, I suggest we make peace with Venezuela, a country with the worlds largest oil reserve, even larger than Saudi Arabia and in our own backyard and tell the Middle East to take a hike. We're through. This isn't the 1970's Cold War era. We don't need proxies there anymore. And we certainly don't need to be fighting their battles.
32
@FXQ,
Well written and makes a lot of sense.The idea on Venezuela has merit and a great twist.Thank You Keep contributing.
3
@FXQ Yes on Venezuela, but don't forget that much of that oil is too heavy to be of much use with present technology,
Iran is supplying the Houthis with weapons, just like the US is supplying Saudis with weapons.
When a American made Saudi warplane drops an American made bomb on a Houthi target, does it mean that America has committed an act of war against the Houthis? Does it mean that the Houthis are justified in launching attacks against American targets in retaliation?
If not, then the Houthis using Iranian weapons to attack the Saudis is not an Iranian attack on Saudi Arabia.
150
@A Cynic. True enough, but the public issue is whether the weapons Iran supplied their Houthi proxies are both sophisticated enough to hit with such accuracy and capable of traversing the great distance from Yemen (on the south western edge of Arabia) to the oil refineries (far to the northeast and fairly close to Iran). If Iran did in fact provide such weapons, a case can be made for Iranian complicity in the attack as this particular use was foreseeable a and perhaps contemplated.
The so far secret information would likely include radar tracks of the drones and, according to some reports, cruise missiles used. If these managed to evade radar, by flying low, that would be a major concern.
1
@A Cynic If somebody gives drugs to your children and they die, will you hold the drug dealer responsible or just your dead child?
1
@A Cynic Touché!
2
It has been oft stated that Trump is Putin’s puppet. MBS and Saudi Arabia seem to share this particular puppetry. It just gets scarier and scarier.
The 2020 vote is the most important vote we face in the history of our country. That said, the lesson here is that we need to make every single Election Day - state and federal elections - a priority!
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@Andrea
I intent to follow your advise and go vote on 2020 to keep the Dems out of the White House so they can't airlift a bunch of billions to our enemies.
Were we attacked? I went to the beach yesterday and must have missed something. Didn't we just sell Saudi Arabia billions in weaponry? Are we required to give them one war free so they can learn to use those guns? How did we get to the point where we are defending the attackers of 911 and having second thoughts about NATO? If Iran gives as strong a denial as Putin gave, will all be forgiven? Why should we believe our security personnel now when we didn't believe them about Russia's election interference? These are just a few of the questions that arise after 24 hrs. on information lock down. The beach may not be worth it.
134
WE believed our intelligence services assessment of Russian meddling. It's me me me all about ME trump who swallows Putin's denials and claims that he knows more than generals. The self proclaimed "stable genius" is doing to the country what he did to his casinos... he must go ASAP.
7
@Rick Gage
Cheyne redux ~
1
If the Houthis using weapons procured from Iran makes Iran responsible for the strikes, does that mean we are responsible for every attack that occurs that uses our weapons?
41
@Sean McC
I believe Sir Thomas More is credited (or, rather credited himself) with the idea of mutual defense agreements, but the ancient Greek city states had them several thousand years earlier. Maybe not ironically, theirs were in defense against Persian aggressions.
1
@Mark Shyres
And after repulsing the Persians went back to business fighting amongst themselves as was their “tradition” until the emerging Roman nation State restored “order” in the vast Med.
@Sean McC All the missiles in ME were ought from us. Does that make us responsible?
1
Iran has a real army and a real air force and a reputation for never giving up. War w Iran would be a massive miscalculation.
23
@Nicholas Balthazar It's also MUCH larger than Iraq and isn't split by Sunni and Shiite strife.
3
@Nicholas Balthazar
Please read “Janes” and the “CIA World Fact Book” Chapter on Iran to learn the true state of Iran’s poorly equipped military. Iran lacks modern weapons and were devastated in their War with Iraq. Their 520,000 man army is mostly poorly paid, equipped and motivated conscripts. Iran has no ability to “project force”. Lacks a modern air defense firms. For years Israeli aircraft have flown unmolested over Iran’s cities. Iran’s has just one strategic target - Kharg Island Oil terminal. Once “reduced” - not a difficult task -
Iran’s economy is brought to its knees. It’s major customers - China, Japan, India and S Korea have other choices. Those impressed with Iran Mullahs boasts and its 70 million inhabitants might reflect that tiny Israel has a much larger economy (GNP) and hands down the only modern well equipped battle military in the mid-east with the ability to deliver total destruction.
2
I think that’s the one thing trump gets. Pompous, not so much.
1
This is classic Iranian bluster --- like how they open a discussion with us by yelling across the table: "Death to America."
Nobody fights an all-out war. Iran isn't equipped for it. They would be annihilated --- even if it were only the Saudis.
We need to strike back to avoid a worse confrontation. It's better to shove a bully to get their respect than wait and have a real battle.
6
@Rocketscientist. But "we" weren't attacked. US equipment losses in the 9/14 attack appear to be zero. US casualties were also zero. The attack was not aimed at US soil.
We were not attacked, and suffered no losses. Saudi Arabia is not a treaty ally like a NATO nation which would obligate us to fight. Absent that, why should we get militarily involved in someone else's war?
45
@Rocketscientist Saudi Arabia just bought billions of dollars worth of weaponry from us. Saudi Arabia is capable of defending itself, and I have no issue with it striking back in self-defense.
The USA should not defend SA. SA is not our ally. SA citizens hijacked and crashed those planes on 9/11.
3
@Rocketscientist Don't kid yourself. Iran is not to be trifled with, even by (or especially by) the U.S. We're not going to unleash B52s and carpet bomb. They have sophisticated air defense capabilities, ballistic missiles, cruise/anti-ship missiles, mini-submarines that are nearly impossible to detect...and then there's Hezbollah, which can function pretty much anywhere in the world. Asymmetric warfare is something they're pretty good at. I doubt the Saudis would fare well against them either.
1
Trump started office with working to undermine NATO. Now he is striving to create an alliance with Saudi Arabia, where the US must come to defense of its oil industry (as well as continuing to aid its war against Yemen, which threatens starvation of 2 million people).
Saudi Arabia is a brutal, murderous regime. It murdered and dismembered a Washington Post journalist. It has beheaded women. It should never be perceived as an ally.
60
@William Lazarus
Pres. Obama attempted their late Kings funeral. Suggesting Democrats considered the Saudis a close ally.
Even after 9/11 by Saudi nationals. Saudi Arabia is the only mid-east nation other than Isreal receiving front line US military hardware. But with their small 50,000 man army they remain “challenged”.
@Peter I Berman
Actually SA has a standing army of 230,000 and is ranked 12th in the world for most military hardware and air assets and 4th in the world for armored fighting vehicles although not so high on tanks. Not saying they could win a ground war but ....
Since we know that both trump WH and the Saudi's are liars so who knows what really happened but trump has been spoiling for a war with Iran for sometime. Let us hope that Congress does its job and intervenes.
15
Here's an idea: if you don't want to get attacked, don't start a war.
20
When Pompeo says the action by Iran is an act of war, who is the act against? Saudi Arabia or the US? Obviously, the US has no business putting American lives at risk for Saudi Arabia, which has no mutual defense treaty with the US, and just recently killed a Saudi-US journalist because, among other things, he criticized the war in Yemen. A pox on both Iran and Saudi Arabia. Let Trump defend the allies who count -- our European allies for example.
18
They’re starting another Iraq war, based on lies!!!!!
19
Men speak of war as if deciding whether or not to buy a dress. Should we? Shouldn't we? When will we wake up and realize war is almost never _the answer_ but the start of unending problems? When did killing people become the answer to anything?
257
@Sally
It was retired Admiral Michael Mullen,who served as the 17th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from October 1, 2007, to September 30, 2011 who said:
Far too often our foreign policy seems to be---grab a gun!
Now we are going beyond killing people. We are killing our very planet.
23
@Sally
Killing enemies has been the answer to many things since the beginning of life on earth billions of years ago. This impulse to kill our enemies in order to promote our own survival isn't new. I'm not saying it's necessarily right, just that it's not new.
It's only in the past seventy-five years or so that human societies have begun questioning the inevitability of war. Please, let's not start this, "when did...become?" as if killing is somehow a phenomenon that began with Bush's Iraq fiasco, Obama's drone strikes, Trump, or the most recent mass shooting.
3
@Sally
Alas, killing people as an answer to problems has been around for a long, long time. Of course it is a stupid answer, and vile.
9
Why are we selling and why is Saudi Arabia buying billions of dollars worth of American military equipment if 1) they don't know how to use it 2) can't use it anyway without provoking Armageddon within their borders and 3) why would we provide all that merchandise and then have to send in our own forces?
And all of that puts aside the confounded stupidity of this administration in canceling our part in the joint agreement, which had nothing to do with anything but limiting Iranian nuclear weapons development: And now, having thus backed our country into this corner, we belligerently threaten mayhem?
68
@Carl Zeitz
Excellent comment, especially your reference to the "stupidity of this administration in canceling our part in the joint agreement." The whole point of that U.S- Iran agreement was to prevent just such a situation as the current one; but Trump, with his enormous uncontrolled sense of grandiosity, cancelled it with no purpose other than to undo something achieved by his predecessor.
2
@Carl Zeitz
Why? Heard of the Military Industrial Complex?
The situation after the attack on the oil installations in Saudi Arabia is very tense . It calls for a very high statesmanship and diplomacy on the part of USA, Saudi Arabia and Iran.USA in particular should n't get dragged into a war with Iran to exhibit its proximity to Saudi Arabia. Already thousands of US armed forces were killed in the ill - fated war in Iraq and in Afghanistan . The US President , Mr.Donald Trump should adhere to his policy of getting back all the armed forces from Iraq and Afghanistan and should n't resort to opening a third front in Iran
6
Why should the US get involved with a strike? Let the Saudis take care of their own problems. I thought Trump and everyone else said it was time to stop being the world’s police. We sold the Saudis enough weapons anyway. How crazy are we? Makes my head spin. Even this is too much for Trump, the king of chaos.
41
@Karen
You can't measure the efficacy of a defense based on dollars spent. I understand that the Saudis were ready for a certain kind of missile attack, but numerous small drones sent in at much lower altitudes broke through.
Think about how much we spent on our own defense. I guarantee you that right now if North Korea sent a dozen atomic bombs our way some would get through. A small thing like attacking when it is raining and the skies are cloudy could result in a successful attack. I am totally sure that with all our spending, we are not safe ourselves and that those who agitated for billions of spending will not design tests that show that our defenses could fail. T
1
This is a regional issue which we should have no part of for now. I'm all for supporting our allies (I use that term very loosely with Saudi Arabia), but let them try and deal with it on their own to start. They have the means to defend themselves.
26
Japan says there is insufficient evidence proving that Iran is responsible. Production levels are back up to near normal. Moreover, this is not America’s battle to fight. If the U.S. should punish anyone, it should be the journalist killing MBS. But once again, this administration kneels before murderous tyrants. Any attack the U.S. initiates is an attack against our democracy.
160
@Kim Garcia ... as there is no mutual defense treaty between Saudi Arabia and the US, on what basis does America take it upon itself to say it is 'locked and loaded' on the Saudis' behalf?
6
Hopefully Iran is smart enough to know that America has no stop-gap mechanisms to prevent the Pentagon and the White House from carpet bombing Tehran from end-to-end. The weapons cache to oblirate the city from 40,000 feet with fighter jet protection is within the capability and dead center of the pathology of the American militarization mentality. Trump would not engage in a tit-for-tat encounter but would crush everything in sight. Further, Israel and others would pile on and dare Russia to blink. "An all-out war" is not something anyone needs to ponder simply because America weaponization is lethal beyond comprehension.
17
@terry brady you underestimate the rest of the world. Clearly even with the “impenetrable” American defense system capabilities and American presence, SA was hit. And with precision. Although, I agree that “an all-out war is not something anyone needs to ponder.”
4
@terry brady. Meanwhile, back in the real world, there is NO current Western military doctrine that would envision the "carpet bombing" of civilian populations or centers under any circumstances.
Aside from being an ineffective tactic based on what the post-WWII realization that it failed in its primary purpose of demoralizing the home front and turning it against the regime, it is a clear violation of multiple rules of the laws of armed combat not to mention international conventions. That these rules are not self-enforcing, as shown by the lack of consequences of Putin's leveling of Grozny and Assad's leveling of many cities in Syria sadly confirm, is a separate issue.
The actual Western doctrine, and the reason why our current arsenal of precision munitions was developed, calls for limited strikes on targets of perceived military value. In practice, quite obviously, errors are made and civilians are killed. War is not a video game.
Your other idea that Russia would care about an attack on Iran is far from obvious. If anything, it would force Iranian troops and proxies from Syria, effectively placing that fractured land under Russian control, without its having to do anything other than loudly denounce Western aggression.
good call
I'm happy the President is drawing a line in the sand for Iran. It is a despotic country ruled by the iron grip of religious fundamentalism. They have slowly and covertly developed their nuclear program and will have no hesitation in using it once they have finished developing it.
1
Not true - before Trump nullified our part of the ‘Iran Deal’, ALL reliable evidence showed that Iran was complying. It wasn’t perfect but certainly a start and much, much better than the situation Trump has created.
102
Iran was in compliance. Everyone involved in the negotiation agrees. Just as there were no WMDs in Iraq, and the inspectors and others knew it, Iran was in compliance until Trump got involved. Well it won’t be his children doing the fighting.
88
@Tony Francis Agree that Iran is a bad actor, but if you think this president saying he will do something means anything, then you will be sadly disappointed.
2
Trump administration has gone
berserk on Iran. Saudis and UAE
have launched many erratic attacks
on Yemen causing thousands of
casualties, yet no condemnation from
Trump and Pompeo. Are these people
unconscionable without any empathy
for the death and destruction in Yemen?
It will be insane to start a war because
Saudi Arabia has been attacked in retaliation for hundreds of attacks
they have made since 2015. Saudis,
Emiratis and American Administration
should understand there is no one
sided war. The other side is not obliged
to keep taking the hit without
retaliation. It is a good lesson for Saudis to learn.Trump Administration will do well to stay away from military action
against Iran. Saudis and Emiratis
will suffer more grievous damage
if Trump decides to attack Iran. Time
to refrain from another war in ME.
48
Neither the Saudi nor American officials blaming Iran for the strikes have any credibility. Blame for the strikes lies squarely at the feet of Washington and its incompetent handling of Middle East affairs no matter who actually fired the missile. We don’t need another quagmire in he Middle East brought about by mismanagement and administration insiders’ ulterior motives.
93
@Richard L correct. And these were just their oil processing installations, not their “oil” and they claim they’ve already recovered as “like a peacock”.
Nobody was killed. How many Americans have the Saudis killed? #neverforget911
How many Yemenis have the Saudis savagely lulled, with American-made weapons?
21
So here we are. I cannot trust the picture of the missile PARTS shown by the Saudis shows anything at all related to the attack last weekend. They could have sat in the desert for decades. Don't missiles that burn a refinery blow up into smaller pieces than those shown? Perhaps, perhaps not.
I cannot trust Mike Pompeo to analyze anything technical and reach a fair conclusion. I can only trust him to make claims consistent with what he's told by whoever he's told to be consistent with.
I cannot trust Saudi Arabia's leadership to be anything other than contentious and murderous. It is completely within the realm of reason and possibility that Yemenis purchased weapons just as the Saudis do, then used them to defend themselves against atrocities against their civilian population.
I cannot trust Donald J Trump to tell the truth even if he knows it and understands it. I cannot expect fair, measured, or strategic success from any action or inaction on his part.
What's the point of having the greatest military firepower the world has ever seen if leadership uses it to support evil in the form of lies, alliances with liars, and false accusations to support prejudice?
243
@larkspur maybe they’ll show us some Iranian passports that they found in the debris?
Or maybe they can borrow Trump’s Sharpie to further illustrate their photoshopped “evidence”?
15
@larkspur They said the missile found fell short of the target so was only damaged, not destroyed.
@larkspur
I imagine the Royals of Saudi would like access to the greatest military firepower the world has ever seen and Trump would like to taker advantage of the Royals' vast wealth to further his.. That's what you would call a reciprocal agreement more to Trump's liking.
Now is the time for everyone to step back.
The Persians are not the Iraqis, a war with them will really really hurt. They are in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Qatar. They have Russia in their corner ready to make mischief and they can bring shipping across the Strait of Hormuz (one of the world’s most strategic choke points) to a standstill in minutes.
It is time to go back to the nuclear deal. It wasn’t the ideal outcome but at least it gave us some visibility over what they were up to.
82
@Full Name (required) don’t forget China. They just invested billions in Iran. This is their neighborhood: Asia.
The Nuclear Deal would have helped long-term removal of the mullahs anyway. Economic prosperity would have allowed the young population to eventually bring about change from within. And evolution not revolution.
27
@Maryam. There is no evidence to suggest the "long term removal" of Iran's leadership, and President Obama was gambling that such a change would occur in the short term, sometime before the JCPOA's sunset provisions took effect. The only thing the nuclear deal did accomplish was to ensure that Iran's joining the nuclear club would not actually occur on Obama watch.
As to "economic prosperity", the billions that the deal unleashed went principally to the Revolutionary Guard, companies it controls and to assorted Iranian-backed terror groups. This was proof of another miscalculation by Obama who was certain the money would be spent on invigorating the Iranian economy.
In retrospect, a case could be made that when Obama came to the fork in the policy road between supporting the Green Revolution or a very limited deal with the Ayatollahs, he took the wrong exit.
Your mention of China also serves as fair warning that autocrats have a strategy for navigating economic prosperity while retaining their authoritarian grip.
2
@Charlie in NY agree about Obama missing/skipping the opportunity on the Green Movement.
Although I was referring to economic prosperity as in regards to opening up Iran’s doors to the world and brining them into play. Iran doesn’t just rely on oil. It has other natural resources, loads of goods for exports, and a huge amount to be made from tourism. The mullahs, much like the GOP (mullahs in different clothes), are old and outdated. The young population is bound to take over, by natural default. So yes, i believe it would happen in the long-run. I was there in 2016 and the energy/vibe of people was ripe for growth and change. Now? They want their government to protect them from SA/USA threats of destruction.
As I type, even the majority of Americans are siding with the mullahs against SA...The current circumstances give the mullahs the distraction from their ousting that they want/need, vice “economic prosperity” which would leave room for peace of mind from possibility of war, and motivation/opportunities for gradual change.
2
One of the problems with Iran is that their "government" is in many disparate parts. The military could have -- maybe -- done something "on its own" without approval. There's no way to know though.
The republicans have set the table for this scenario with Iran since trump got into office and the party self destructed. I don't really believe his posture that he doesn't want a strike; it seems more to me that he wants a war and to bring that regime down.
Our species seems to be nature's biggest mistake.
4