“We are in court to protect the president’s rights and the Constitution,” said Marc L. Mukasey, a lawyer for the Trump Organization.
AND protecting the Constitution..
AND protecting the Constitution??
This SOMEONE is being paid by the company of A BUSINESSMAN who claims NOT to have had an affair, A BUSINESSMAN who also claims NOT to have had his former lawyer/fixer pay hush money to a porn star ---SO, voters wouldn't hear before the 2016 Presidential Election.
This SOMEONE receiving the "alleged" deceiver's company money TELLS the "allegedly" deceived citizens that he's not protecting a businessman.
No, no, no, this SOMEONE is protecting the rights of a 2-years-into-the-job officeholder (who serves us, btw) AND this SOMEONE is protecting The People's Constitution. WE ARE TOLD TO BELIEVE.
This SOMEONE is marketing this load ON BEHALF OF Donald J. Trump. Donald J. Trump who told the citizens that he would love to provide his tax return. Donald J. Trump who claimed that the Tax Cut hurt him financially.
BOTTOM LINE: A businessman allegedly wrote-off the hush money as a business expense, skipped on some taxes; and SOMEBODY working for the State of New York is doing something about it.
This SOMEONE retained by a businessman-in-hot-water IS ENABLED by a political party, its partisan officeholders, a puppet attorney general, allegiant court officers, and by a constituency blind to the price of winning.
The blowback will be MONUMENTAL.
12
Trump is obviously trying to run out the clock and prevent voters from knowing the facts of his tax returns and business dealings until he is out of office.
Clearly he is fighting so hard to keep us in the dark because he has information in those records that is so damaging, he wouldn't get re-elected. Or would be impeached.
What a nasty, evil little worm we have as president!
15
Who are these dubious, crooked lawyers, where did they go to school, could it be in Moscow University, North Korea, are they out of their legal mind or maybe completely brainwashed like in 3rd world countries, by their leader who dictates the rules of the day.
It's just priceless to observe the "legal" profession at work, digging up every possible argument in the Constitution to shield criminal president from investigation and prosecution...feels like back in the USSR!
Could the whistleblower complaint have something to do with trump openly bribing and blackmailing newly elected president of Ukraine and promised to help & not to withhold military help so they can defend Ukraine from Putin, but only if he keeps digging the dirt on Hunter Biden and help him with 2020 re-election.
Giuliani his loyal consigliere goes to Ukraine to take care of it all, and to pressure Ukraine to interfere with
2020 re-election to benefit trump and Giuliani is not even deny it, in fact he says he's proud of it on CNN last night.
Adam Schiff already said that the system is "badly broken" so we are watching this theatre of absurd performed by usual suspects, a.k.a. Rudy Giuliani straight out from Central Casting.
How long the country will have to put up with sheer insanity???
Are we waiting for people to get completely NUMB!
Real Bedlam!!!
11
"If the president does it, it can't be illegal".
Richard M. Nixon
13
How ironic that the most ignorant and corrupt President in our history has decided there is nothing we can do to stop him...
Until election time.
16
He's ripe for picking. He's no better than anyone else, in fact he's worse. I don't care how he leaves office. Kick him to the curb on his way out. His legacy is complete. Pathologic liar, wanna be king, lover of evil, vile, disgustingly deranged, narcissist, killer of the American dream, deaf to everyone but his own twisted, diseased mind and more. He does not respect our institutions, the constitution or the rule of law.
23
I guess there is an impulse to scream to the rafters given the current occupant. But were Bill Clinton in office today, frivolous allegations would be used to derail his presidency. Oh wait, that is exactly what did happen.
6
Things might get much worse before they get better. The circle of people around Trump and his administration (including Congressional Republicans) might continue to profit from their corruption and contribute to damaging the fabric of our society.
But someday--perhaps not even in my lifetime, but someday--the history of this era will be written. The Trumpists and their enablers will look abominable then.
11
Oh there’s nothing in the constitution or laws that says he cannot be investigated. Charged is another story which his legal dogs will tie up in the courts until he leaves office.
7
I would say nearly every day there's serious issues surrounding Trump. Its not just his decisions around immigration and the environment which is disturbing but his and the administrations stonewalling on EVERYTHING Congress (having the right to investigate) tries to get information on. Again and again he directs people to not appear and/or not answer questions. Any info on releasing his taxes is met with a lawsuit. Why say anything? just RELEASE THEM! He's clearly hiding something. If this isn't an obstruction of justice, what is? It boggles the mind that Congress doesn't end the kid gloves handling of this behavior and start aggressively holding its administrations feet to the fire. ENOUGH!! Throw this loser out along with all his sychophants.
8
There may be a school of thought that a sitting president can not be criminally INDICTED. I have never heard any person with a modicum of legal acumen suggest that to mean that a sitting president can not be INVESTIGATED. Heck, if he did nothing wrong, an investigation would show that and then there would be no reason to argue whether he can be indicted or not. One would think that lawyers representing a stable genius would understand the difference between investigation and indictment. And, if not, just grab your handy Funk and Wagnall's (or ask Wiki).
7
Let's rethink this for a second. "No citizen is above the law." Time's up. Verdict: Individual 1 is eligible, yea, highly recommended, for prosecution. (And in my opinion, Attorney Giuliani should be considered for disbarment, but that would become a sideshow and distract from the main business at hand, so it can wait.)
6
If the premise that a sitting president cannot be investigated is confirmed, how does the statute of limitations come into play since a president can potentially be in office for 8 years? Additionally, couldn’t a president blanket pardon himself at the end of two terms for crimes never investigated?
9
If trump’s lawyers are success, would be a pivotal turning point of our Democracy becoming an Autocracy. One supreme leader with NO checks or balances.
11
Seems to me we're already there.
8
The Constitution makes clear that the President can be ousted from office for having committed "high crimes and misdemeanors" by the process of impeachment and trial. Are we now saying that the evidence of a crime can only be collected without a criminal investigation? Ridiculous!
Let's see those "original intent" Supreme Court judges twist themselves into a pretzel trying to get around that one.
10
We wouldn’t be so concerned about Trump’s behavior, or his tax returns if he was normal and law abiding, he is neither of those. He’d sell the U.S. out in a NY minute and we all know it. He needs to be investigated and constantly watched. If only any of this would lead to impeachment. He’s just too crooked.
12
The mantra "Innocent of all charges" has morphed into "There's nothing you can do about it"?
This guy has got to go.
15
When Trumpian law trumps American law we are no longer living in America. 'We (can no longer )hold (our) truths to be self evident that all are created equal.' Last one out, turn off the lights. But before you do, Vote.
10
Whatever happened to the old fashioned way of getting rid of dictators like Nero and Caligula? And Rome prospered for centuries after such action. Are we missing something?
5
For a guy whose innocent, he sure acts guilty.
Is he going to resign on his last day in office and have Pence pardon him?
10
So, let me get this straight: Somewhere, in the pure Platonic world of forms, exists a copy (or many copies) of Donald Trump's corrupt tax returns. It is waiting there, protected by the gods, and can be discovered, but only if some legalistic approval is given. It cannot be discovered without the magic approval because that violates some rule of the gods. Is that what I am supposed to believe? If what Trump did is so horrendous, then our honest elites should henceforth immediately make it known because I am certain it would be shocking enough to everyone to require Trump's immediate impeachment, no? Or is it possible that the practices in which Trump engaged are not at all different from those that most of our elites engage--the tax shelters, the hiding money, the endless deductions--and that this entire affair is just a silly game played to keep everyone distracted and in conflict? I personally have no idea what is going on anymore in this insane corporate technocracy. Yes, Trump is a thoroughly corrupt pathological narcissist. But what of the endless Apocalyptic claims against Trump that never come to fruition, unless money for advertisers and media celebrities advancing their careers counts as "fruition?" Another issue here is that most Americans, whatever their ideology, do not view the IRS, or tax policy in general, as some arbiter of fairness. As such, as difficult as this is to understand, many will admire Trump if he did engage in unsavory activities.
2
The DOJ employees following Trump's instructions are acting against the Constitution and tarring their own reputations.
8
If the Republican party had even 1 percent of the principle on which it was founded, Trump would have been impeached long ago, and would probably be sitting in prison.
13
Let's take "I could shoot someone....." to it's logical extreme. If a sitting president cannot be indicted, nor even investigated, wouldn't a criminal president become extremely motivated to stay in office, thus retaining all immunity from any and all criminal actions?
Following that to its logical conclusion, wouldn't such a president be motivated to follow Putin's lead, and "eliminate" the competition?
I am not joking, or speaking in hypothetical hyperbole. It IS happening here, we need to stop pretending it isn't.
12
Then congress in 2020 will not only take 45, pence, and many others down, but also 45’s lawyers down as well as being complicit in the tens of crimes by 45!
5
@plages
Only if we all (and I do mean ALL) vote Blue in 2020.
6
If he cannot be investigated or prosecuted for his crimes legally, then what? Tar and feathers come to mind. Seriously, without the rule of law we aren’t left many choices.
5
Trump's position is that, even if he has such conflicts of interest that he is under the thumb of a foreign government because of damaging information they hold over his head, we have no right to know that. And we can't even investigate to find out. Where does it say that in the Constitution?
7
How far down this rabbit whole are we going to go? Now, "the smart and corrupted city lawyers" are arguing the the county bumping prosecutor cannot investigate, or charge the king with criminal acts committed in the corrupted pursuit of becoming king. Talk about a banana republic, without the bananas! I believe Sekulov has some legal difficulties with the misplaced millions missing from his "non-profit" or at least that's what the county bumping prosecutors have uncovered, so far.
7
Trump is again trying to run out the clock like he's done hundreds of times before with sham counter-suits. But this time is different because the Constitution clearly states he can be investigated and gives Congress full authority to do so. No one is above the law.
10
In 2017 Eric Trump was asked during an interview about the Trump family income. He answered, "we do a lot of business with Russia".
Whoops! It seems there is something in these tax records and Trump is trying every gimmick he can to keep them hidden.
8
If it is deemed that he cannot be prosecuted until leaving office, he will do whatever it takes not to leave office. And that's frightening.
14
A leader who can act criminally without impunity while in office is the definition of a tyrant, and tyranny is exactly what the founders of this country resisted. The president and his lawyers have made a legal claim that seeks not only to subvert justice. It also offends the impetus, the very essence, of why thirteen colonies rose up and fought to become our nation.
12
Be careful what you wish for. If this were to become a way of trying to "correct a mistake" that some local officials feel the electorate made, government would become impossible. We see shades of that now with the House Judiciary Committee, under the leadership of Nadler of NY, that desperately wants to find a reason for impeachment. Now Vance, a NYC district attorney, wants to join the fray and do his part to assist. It might be better to let the elected government do its work and try do a better job, if possible, at the ballot box the next time around. Otherwise, elections become irrelevant. Elections would just become a means to get a candidate into office so the other side could then attack to correct the mistake the other side made.
@jpduffy3
There are plenty of reasons for impeachment; 10 in the Mueller report alone. But with Moscow Mitch in office, impeachment will never even be taken to a hearing in the Senate. Best to take time and build a case. Then vote in 2020. Blue, of course.
3
He most assuredly CAN be investigated by the state of New York. The Anti-Injunction Act will prevent his office or the federal government from intervening. Ironically, since the Republicans love to scream "states rights," this Act protects the states from precisely this.
7
If this argument were upheld then a president might evade prosecution for a number of crimes if the statute of limitations expired during his term of office, evidence became stale and witnesses died. I suspect a court might recognize this and allow an investigation to continue but perhaps block prosecution until after the president leaves office suspending the statute of limitations during that period.
2
The 1973 and 2000 DOJ memos say a sitting president can't be indicted, due to the "distraction" it would create for the president, requiring the use of time and energy that should be devoted to the president's official duties. But investigators subpoenaing information about sitting presidents and/or their associates is not prohibited in the DOJ memos, apparently because honoring subpoenas doesn't necessarily require nearly as much of the president's time and energy (though Trump has decided to waste his time and energy fighting subpoenas, that's been his personal choice). Confirming this DOJ position, the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 in 1974, during Nixon's impeachment hearings, that sitting presidents, and entities associated with them, CAN be compelled to release information relating to possible criminal acts committed by sitting presidents and/or their associates, as is the case with the current subpoena issued to Mazars. The Court in 1974 ruled that though presidents have a right of executive privilege, Nixon was wrong in arguing that the courts are compelled to honor, without question, any presidential claim of privilege, because that would impede the courts. As soon as the Supreme Court issued that ruling, Nixon complied and released the "smoking gun" tape, in which he's heard, shortly after the Watergate break-in, discussing with Haldeman how to tell the FBI to back off investigating the break-in, which proved he was involved in obstruction of justice from the start.
10
If USA citizens are prepared to accept that the President is above the Law then they are no longer living in a democracy. For any court to agree to this would mean that the authority of the Law is undermined and can no longer be considered to be independent and the final authority. All entities from the individual, through the corporate to the Executive and Law Making bodies themselves are subject to the Law. Anything other than this is not acceptable in a free and democratic country.
8
Trump is just doing what has worked for him in his business for decades....stiffing people then wearing them down through protracted legal entanglements.
Our institutions are being severely tested by this assault and at this point I am growing more apprehensive they may not be up to coping with it. Not a good feeling.
5
Presidents are not kings.
They cannot break the law with impunity.
A memo from the Justice Department written 45 years ago does not a law make.
The United States of America has never faced a threat to its democracy and existence like Trump before.
He was put in office by America's foes, who will pay for their transgressions.
Tom Clancy couldn't write this novel.
Every law abiding patriot in the Intelligence Services, Justice Department, Congress, and Supreme Court owe a duty to the United States Constitution and the American people - who did not elect Trump.
Investigate, Investigate, Investigate.
Then Prosecute, Prosecute, Prosecute.
The Trump family, and all those in power complicit in their crimes, must be an example to future generations of would be tin-pan dictators that America is too big for them to run or hide.
15
@David Parsons - It's true that the DOJ's 1973 and 2000 memos regarding presidential immunity aren't laws, and the next time the Democrats have the White House, and substantial majorities in both the House and Senate, they should introduce laws to take this issue out of the hands of the DOJ, or at least to prevent a sitting president from manipulating our fairly vague laws on these matters. The DOJ is in the executive branch and shouldn't be allowed to be the fox that guards the henhouse. The specifics of a sitting president's immunity shouldn't continue to be undecided by legislators, since that has allowed the DOJ to step into the gap and protect its boss no matter what the cost to the nation.
5
In the final analysis, exempting the President of the United States from state criminal laws would ultimately violate the principles of federalism that our nation was founded upon. And Donald John Trump is not worth sacrificing our nation's basic, bed-rock fundamental principles as to how our country works. He is neither above the law nor is he worth sacrificing the law for the evil shroud of authoritarian dictatorship. The United States of America is bigger than any one man in the oval office.
12
I hate to admit it but Sekulow is right. The Constitution does preclude investigation of the President.
It's there at the end of the great document, right after Amendment XXVII, in black Sharpie:
The Covfefe Amendment: And you can't investigate me either!!! Sad!
19
If it is not his tax returns, it is his secret meetings with Putin, or hints of "taking care" of those who are loyal to him. Or failing to testify to Mueller or refusing to allow others around him to testify. Or refusing to hear the accusations of a whistle blower.
How can this all be nothing?
14
Well, presuming this goes to litigation, regardless of what some courts may decide you can be sure that Trump’s Supreme Court friends will have his back.
2
Naive question: Are American taxpayers funding Jay Sekulow and the other attorneys Trump has retained in his relentless effort to undermine our democracy and avoid accountability?
If so, I want my money back. Now.
9
Taxpayers pay the salaries of the White House Counsel and those underneath him. As well as the justice department.
So in other words we pay for the lawyers whose job it is to represent/defend the office of the president and defend the president in matters that relate to his official duties as president.
On personal legal issues that are unrelated to the office Trump has to retain a personal legal team, who are not government employees; and therefore aren’t paid with taxpayer money. In the past he has used campaign funds to help pay his personal lawyers (like Jay Sekulow) so it isn’t guaranteed that he pays these lawyers with his own money.
6
"Presidents, they asserted, have such enormous responsibility and play a unique role in government that they" [...]
must be held to account and fully investigated when credible criminal concerns are raised.
7
@josh - Yup. That opposite-world wording from 1973 shows how much the fix was in, during Nixon's time, and continuing afterwards, in which people who are effectively monarchists worked hard to shield sitting presidents from even crucial oversight. They failed in 1974, when the Supreme Court ruled in a 9-0 decision that a sitting president doesn't have a blanket right to executive privilege, especially when investigators are looking into criminal matters, whether possibly committed by the president or the president's associates, but the DOJ re-upped their 1973 memo in 2000, and that position has remained in effect ever since, because Congress hasn't taken the steps to take this matter out of the DOJ's hands, where it doesn't belong--the DOJ is in the executive branch and shouldn't be the fox guarding the henhouse.
3
so a President can be forced to respond to a civil action
( Clinton ) while in office
but not be investigated for suspected criminal acts while in office
give me a break
17
@Allen Corzine - That's because civil offenses by a sitting president generally don't do much if anything to further the aims of the monarchists/authoritarians who prop up and run their president, and are unlikely to result in impeachment, but it's necessary to allow a sitting president to commit impeachable crimes in order to advance the monarchists'/authoritarians' goals.
1
He can’t be prosecuted because he’s doing such a good job or because he says so?
3
Keep in mind this very newspaper did a long disturbing piece on trump's past financial life.There was so much blatant tax fraud concerning his inheritance from his father...trump even set up a phony and very cheesy store supposedly to sell an asst.of things to his Dad's apartments that was really a just a way to hide
inheritance installments.Where was the outrage?I heard not a peep about this detailed and disgusting history of a tax cheat.It turns out Trump paid 50 mil on an inheritance of 413 mil.I seem to be the only person horrified.
9
Trump's lawyers grasp at straws when they argue that a criminal investigation of the President is unconstitutional. As this article points out, other presidents have been criminally investigated and Trump has already has been the subject of a criminal investigation by Mueller.
My question to the lawyers: when was the Constitution amended to preclude criminal investigation of the President? Was it before, during or after Mueller's investigation - which they did not contest as being unconstitutional? Where can I get a copy of the new Constitution with this change?
Do the lawyers say the President CAN not be criminally investigated, or that he SHALL not or MAY not be criminally investigated? Semantics are important, especially in reading the Constitution, and often in watching how Trump et al manipulate the law to their advantage.
If the argument is that the President CANNOT be criminally investigated, that sounds like a challenge to the ability of investigators to carry out an investigation. Since the Mueller investigation certainly was carried out, ipso facto, the President CAN be criminally investigated.
He can be, he may be, he was, and he will be.
6
@Elizabeth - Trump's lawyers are basing their argument on the DOJ's memos on presidential immunity, of which the link below is the 2000 affirmation of the original 1973 memo:
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/2000/10/31/op-olc-v024-p0222_0.pdf
But Trump's lawyers are citing these DOJ memos to try to Trojan-horse additions to those memos that just aren't there, and in fact their attempted additions are the opposite of what these memos state, which is that though the DOJ claims a sitting president can't be indicted on criminal charges, it does allow investigations, which of course includes subpoenas for testimony and documentation, which is how the Special Counsel's Office under Mueller was able to operate. The DOJ's 2000 review of its 1973 memo affirms the Supreme Court's 9-0 ruling in 1974 that a sitting president doesn't have absolute immunity from subpoenas, so the Trump lawyers' attempt to ignore this is just a stalling tactic.
2
Asking for tax records is not the same thing as criminally prosecuting someone.
8
I guess what will happen on Nov 3, 2020, if Donald Trump is for some reason NOT reelected? Most likely he will be reelected. But if some of those states PA. MI. OH, WI and FL does not vote for 45th, like the way they did in 2016. What will happen? It is not that far only 13 months.
1
So the one American who should be held to the highest standard, is now to be held to no standard.
Well, that is what seems to be happening, anyway.
18
This is what a dictatorship is like. I think a lot of people think it's has to be a more obvious situation, but there's no reason to think it's more blatant. I don't think Trump is smart enough to have achieved this sort of control by his own wit. I think Russians military intelligence has achieved a bloodless coup. Every move he makes seems to be beneficial to Russia. Diverting everyone's Eyes to some other distraction. I don't see the next election being legitimate. If he stays on as Pres I'm planning to leave the states. It's truly a horror to see America democracy crumble so fast. If he stays in office it's only going to get worse and look how bad things have become in such a short time. I never thought such a situation could evolve here. The Russians have an extremely sophisticated Psy Ops. Total disruption.
12
Run? Why not stay to fight. We’re gonna need all the help we can get in order to rid ourselves of this plague of Fascism.
9
@Just Julien
If we lose the next election to Trump and his minions, then I believe it is really over for the USA. I can't run (too old), and I can stay and fight (went to the Jan. 21st 2016 march, and the March for our lives in 2017). But again, I would recommend my children and grandchildren get out of the country if possible.
2
I’m surprised that the Supreme Court hasn’t been considered a joke since Bush v Gore.
The jokes have groan worse ever since.
6
Trump's lawyers? I just saw one on Chris Cuomo tonight. He seemed a bit "unglued".
9
Why does this administration think it is above the law? Are they saying that #45 could literally shoot someone on 5th avenue and not be charged?
9
@Edna - Yes, they are claiming literally that. They're claiming that an indictment for murder would be too distracting for Trump as he tries to carry on with his Constitutionally-prescribed duties. They're contending that being elected to the US presidency turns a person into a god-king.
2
Let'a allow for a moment the questionable assertion that you can't "charge" a sitting president with a crime. But you can still investigate wrongdoing which can either be used in an impeachment procedure or a criminal procedure after the president leaves office.
But as someone mentioned earlier, this notion doesn't make sense. If a president shot three cabinet members while TV cameras were rolling, that president could not be prosecuted? Ridiculous.
2
I agree totally but the distinction here is a state investigation - not relevant to any impeachment proceeding done by the congress.
Isn’t it frustrating that Trump and his Republican enablers can flagrantly block any accountability by the Congress, and how inept and weak the Democrats seem to be in upholding the law and the Constitution?
3
@Jack Shultz
Stop blaming the Democrats! The legislative branch isn't the branch in charge of enforcement; the Executive branch is. And currently Democrats only control one house in Congress. Put the blame on the Republicans, where it belongs.
2
Let's just cut out the middle man and ask Vladimir for them. If you don't think he's been holding copies of Trump's taxes over his head, you're incredibly naive.
7
Sounds like a good working definition for “Despot”.
5
In response to Trumps saying at some point he was " the second coming" I reply most whole heartedly, I wish he was "the first going". Such a monstrous inflated imbecilic narcissistic ego attached to a very little brain, which unfortunately holds the highest office in the world. If we want democracy to have any further foothold on this planet, we MUST vote Trump out of office and never give up on any investigations of him or anyone else in Congress who have tried to obfuscate justice, destroy our country, pander to our enemies and destroy the greatness of the American vision- unique in history, as our forefathers created in the marvelous document of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
7
This is asinine...so a president, once he is elected, can commit all the criminal offenses he wants for four years and he can’t be arrested...? This is the first clown I guess who is actually testing that theory.
6
Trumps playbook: exhaust the investigation with lawsuit after lawsuit. It's what daddy Fred and his mob lawyer Roy Cohn taught
him how to outmaneuver, delay, file counter-suits all with the intention to utterly exhaust any possibility of an investigation.
9
As a taxpayer and voter, before I decide who to vote for, I want to ensure my president has also been paying his or her fair share.
5
It is infuriating that this criminally insane clown gets away with whatever he wants, due, at least in part, to the Democrats' inability to stop wringing their hands and act. Trump's denial of climate change alone should be enough to impeach him and convict him. If that isn't a crime against humanity, I don't know what is. It makes his tax returns and all his other shenanigans pale by comparison.
20
So..,did you vote?
6
@Robert
I agree with you. Did Christopher Ross vote? If so, for who? And as I pointed out above, the Democrats control only one of two houses in the Congress, and the legislative branch is not the law enforcement branch! There is only so much of "act" the Democrats can do. It is up to us.
Vote Blue 2020
2
Are we ever going to be able to be rid of this criminal? I am so sick of this every day absolution of his lawlessness by the thuggish republicans.
23
The Constitution in Germany was the same at the end of World War Two as it was before the War. Hitler and his thugs just took over and did whatever they wanted to do, with total disregard for the laws of the land. It’s readily apparent that the current occupation of the White House and his thugs are following the same playbook.
16
Absolutely. In the way he moves members of his cabinet around, keeps everyone loyal to him or they’re out....
I remember years ago a woman who wrote some story about him visited his office and noted that he had Mein Kampf on his shelves. He’s been studying fascists and dictators for a long time.
He waited for decades and when he saw a moment - a weak Democratic candidate - *BOOM* he went into action. And did it all through the electorate and the existing system. Same thing as Hitler.
We are in big trouble.
I think he and his cronies see that a crumbling 20 trillion dollar a year economy has a lot of money floating around. They’re there to get their share.
7
@Just Julien Since trump can't- or won't- read, we'll have to assume he had that book in his office to impress a visiting dignitary. I wonder which one.
2
I bet they those idiots also claimed that John Gotti was above the law.
Obviously, a reputable peer-reviewed attorney would not even represent this clown.
6
There is no law that states trump can't be prosecuted. In other words, "no one is above the law".
13
In China, they might write and pass such a law. In the United States, not...yet.
4
Why do NONE of these so-called "legal scholars" go back for the FACT that 2 sitting Presidents weren't indicted, they were actually arrested and charged and while one fought the charges, neither argued they couldn't be charged.
The first was Franklin Pierce, and the latter was Ulysses S. Grant.
Sure, it was a long time ago, but Grant followed Andrew Johnson, the first President to be Impeached. And Presidential precedent isn't changed by White House lawyers writing their "opinion" solely to benefit the President they work for.
All these bums working for Trump deserve jail, with Trump in first.
11
"Presidents, they asserted, have such enormous responsibility and play a unique role in government that they cannot be subject to the burden of investigations"
Yes, and besides it will interfere with those frequent weekend golf outings at the resorts owned by said president ... supported of course by taxpayer dollars.
13
Dude, he's just looking for your tax returns. There's no suggestion of illegality, until now you've basically said "If they see my tax returns they'll indict me." This guy can't stop saying incriminating things.
10
So, eventually trump’s reign will end, either he will lose the next election or reach the end of his second term. Does anybody out there think he would actually step down without a huge fight backed up by his remaining 30,000,000 or so willfully blind supporters, the senate (likely), what remains of the justice system and intelligence folks, his handpicked cabinet, Fox, any remaining Republican politicians, big oil, all climate change deniers, and a handful of friendly foreign far right wing dictators.
5
Unacceptable legal arguement, acceptable interpretation. It's profoundly "unAmerican" to claim the Leader is above the law. Is it this sort of arrogance what it will take to expose the extremism that now permeates so much of the Republican Party?
8
Trump and his protectors grow more desperate and wildly extravagant in their attempts to stonewall revelations of wrongdoing that impact him directly or his closest advisers. Trump Doctrine: STONEWALL IT. President Nixon tried the same tactic. As more information is released by dedicated and very competent news professionals, the more deranged are Trump's responses. Now he's claiming his behavior and actions -- whatever they may be -- are exempt from inquiry by mortals. It won't work.
7
Maybe there could be 3-way trade:
Mexico pays for part of the wall, toward keeping trump's campaign promise, if trump releases the requested tax returns.
Then he partly keeps two of his promises.
Of course, silly as this is - no motivation for Mexico, etc., it incorrectly assumes trump, the lier in chief, cares a whit about keeping his word.
3
@FilligreeM - There would be a Mexican standoff, in which Mexico would insist that Trump release his tax returns first, and Trump would insist on Mexico paying up first.
2
What we need here is for his legal team to spend some time behind bars learning that nobody is above the law, especially Trump, then maybe they could become productive citizens.
8
What is going on here? No more checks and balances? No more laws? We were discussing this today, and we all said: "He will get away with this, just as he gets away with everything else!" Never, NEVER have I seen anything like this. He has the republicans in a vise-grip, because they know if they want to get re-elected they need his endorsement, so they will do nothing against him, NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES. There is no more democracy, Folks. This is Fascism, as far as the eye can see.
11
It is time to impeach.
Now.
We need our country back.
13
@Smitty Johnson
Impeachment will not get us our country back as long as Moscow Mitch is in control of the Senate.
2
Geez, and I thought voters were supposed to make educated choices.
3
Congress can't investigate because of "presidential" privilege.
The feds can't investigate because some DOJ memo said president can't be indicted .
And now states can't investigate because its unconstitutional?
What next, voters can't vote him out of office because he's "the chosen one" defense?
12
@robertb - That's not next--they've already been arguing that for some time.
Why, it interferes with his busy day of 24 hour Fox viewing? Former presidents have been very busy with the matters of the country but Trump watches TV all day. Now, KellyAnn
on the other hand does have a lot of lying to do day and night.
9
When you do it day and night you can get really good at it.
1
" ... the president’s legal team argued in the complaint that the Constitution effectively makes sitting presidents immune from all criminal inquiries until they leave the White House. "
Bill Clinton will be amused to hear this.
Did we have a different Constitution back in the 1990's ?
10
So aren't they really admitting that he's a criminal?
9
Trump will never be convicted in an impeachment process, nor will be subject to Article 25 because of the innocuous sycophants in his cabinet. The best that can be hoped for would be for Schiff to rachet up the pressure on him in order to persuade enough independents to vote him out, and allow Letitia James to put him in Attica for the rest of his miserable life.
10
Nonsense theory just like executive privilege.
9
If true than the whole premise of this country is a lie. No one is above the law.
7
I guess Trump was not joking when he said he can literally shoot someone on the street and get away with it.
And that was before he became president.
God save the United States.
9
The Paula Jones civil case was allowed to proceed against President Clinton. Why would a criminal case broght by a state against Trump while he is in office be a greater distratction than than the Jones suit? We all know this Presedient and his laywers will say and do anything to protect Trump. not because he is a sitting president, but because he is Trumo and that's what they get paid to argue.
9
Trump will get away with it, just like he always has. Nor will not change after his presidency is over. Trump may be a bad businessman but he’s sure good at getting away with egregious crimes that anybody else would be sent to prison for.
4
What's there to hide? Nothing, you say? Then be transparent.
Anyone supporting this "man" and his political party are not Americans, period. They are traitors to the nation's ideals.
6
A president who cannot be investigated is no longer a president; he is a king. The Trumpers hate the very essence of America where we like to believe that no one is above the law.
11
The rubes usually get pretty angry once they realize they've been flim- flammed. It's just a matter of time. Buy stock in tar and feathers now.
6
I am in Cheyenne, WY now working. The rubes are still drinking the Kool Aid! Dont give them too much credit. They're dumber than a bag of walnuts.
2
The president is above the law. Not.
4
In hearing an argument as preposterous, and as ridiculous as this , you know that the Trump administration is irrevocably off the tracks ...
and you also know there must be a truckload of criminal activity that is being hidden. A dictator, or a tyrant would be beyond investigation. Which one of these is Donald Trump? We must not allow a tyrant or a dictator to impersonate a President of the United States
But don’t worry , those of you who still believe in justice should know that the Southern District of New York is waiting until this man becomes a private citizen, and when he does they’ll eventually put him in an orange jumpsuit to match his orange hair.
6
Let’s see the so called originalists on the Supreme Court cite the language in the constitution that says the president can’t be investigated for crimes.
7
This is insane. This has to stop. Since when can't we criminally investigate a criminal. This is the USA. It is not Russia.
Please people. We have fought terrible, agonizing wars to defend the principle of justice, of law.
Don't let these horrible people steal our country.
9
My preemptive thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of whoever he decides to shoot on 5th Ave.
6
Trump and his lawyers are utterly defiant of the law. They file these nuisance suits solely to delay, delay, delay. And Trump thinks that this garbage legal action vindicates him. What do we do as a nation when we have a president who sees himself completely above the law, and an AG who supports that proposition? Pitchforks and torches? It may come down to that.
9
The Whitewater Investigation. Help me to understand the difference then & now.
6
May Donald J. Trump and all around him be ruined and personally destroyed!
5
Kids literally learn about rule of law in 8th grade. How can the president not know?
5
The John Mitchell suite in federal prison awaits William Barr.
6
The second trump is out of office these idiotic rules need to be changed - get rid of gerrymandering, the electoral college, and presidential immunity.
It's ridiculous, haven't we learned our lesson?
5
he really does seem to think he is a king. which means, of course, we are trapped in the Madness of King Trump, to paraphrase the title of a great movie.
6
There’s nothing in the constitution that provides immunity for the Office of President. Impeachment only covers removal from office. The President can issue a pardon but not to avoid impeachment. Anything beyond that is not in the text of the constitution.
8
If we can't get him now, we will get him later. Karma always catches up and it will trickle down on all his family in the end. I for one will be sitting back with a huge smile as I wish him as much pain and suffering as he has cause for our country.
4
If you can't indict or investigate a president, why does the Constitution provide a remedy for high crimes and misdemeanors called impeachment? Why is there an emoluments clause?
I thought we were a nation of laws?
And shouldn't the head of our Democratic Republic uphold the law? I believe that's in the Constitution too.
Then, there's that Oath of Office as well.
12
“Presidents, they asserted, have such enormous responsibility and play a unique role in government that they cannot be subject to the burden of investigations, especially from local prosecutors who may use the criminal process for political gain.”
President Trump’s time is too valuable and the burdens of his office too onerous for him to tell his accountant to send his tax returns to prosecutors but not so time consuming as to prevent him from playing more than 234 rounds of golf since becoming president. Maybe he could do that during his daily executive time.
10
@Sketco: It has nothing to do with his "time being valuable" or the "burdens of his office." His time is mostly spent with nonsense, insanity, deceit, and corruption, and any "burdens" he shoulders are of his own making. He doesn't care about the troubles of the people of this country, and THOSE troubles SHOULD BE his burdens, but he is too busy worrying about himself. He is hiding something that he does not want us to see. If he was so honest, and as rich as he claims to be, he would be DYING to let us know all that. He is a con artist, a flim-flam man, a phony, a fraudster...and far, far worse.
10
There may be a case to be made that a president ought not be burdened with time consuming demands to produce material for an investigation.
But releasing an already prepared tax return, something required of every citizen with income, would put no imposition upon the president's time.
11
The argument that releasing Trump's tax records would interfere with his ability to perform the duties of the office seems like it would only hold water if the records showed misdeeds. I'm no judge, but I wouldn't accept this argument.
12
In the way, Trump lawyer is correct. The U.S. Constitution explains a president can be removed from office for “high crimes and misdemeanors” by Congress using the impeachment process. But the Constitution is silent on whether a president can face criminal prosecution in court, and the U.S. Supreme Court has not directly addressed the question. But the justice department has its own guideline stating “The indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would unconstitutionally undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions" which is the very reason that Mueller refused to indict a sitting president for obstruction despite the evidence.
2
@tedc, yes, but it's a guideline not a law. And a really poor guideline that is a fissure that Trump has exploited at the great expense of eroding laws and defying the Constitution.
What kind of government would we have it was exempt from accountability?
10
@tedc: Do you think that this "president" is performing his constitutionally assigned functions? And the rest of the republicans? What we have here now in these United States is a Fascist crime syndicate. This administration is not doing the work of government or performing its constitutionally assigned functions! They are using this nation to enrich themselves, and they are destroying democracy, and dismantling any progress for good that has been made during years and years of hard work and effort by decent, caring politicians, and honorable public servants. They are disenfranchising and harming the poor, the sick, women, children, the handicapped, veterans, and the elderly. If they could, they would kill them all, along with the poor immigrants. The only reason the don't is because then they would have to turn on each other.
7
The lede reads "Trump lawyers argue he cannot be criminally INVESTIGATED".
This desperate concept was dreamed up by ambulance chasers who should be disbarred.
The constitution makes no mention of this hair-brained trope, nor of the idea of presidential immunity from indictment while in office.
Trump is turning our whole rule-of-law system inside-out.
7
So if, God Forbid, Trump we're to pass while in office would the Republicans then argue that just can't be until his term in office has expired. And that would be in 2024 cause he was going to be re-elected. So he is still the President.
5
@William Cane
Pass? God willing!
3
Trump’s legal team is merely trying to stall. They admitted that their position has not been tested. 45 must have a lot to hide.
14
@Laura: SO MUCH that your hair would stand up.
5
If the constitution prohibited the president from being sued or criminally charged because of the special nature of his job (which it does not explicitly do but let’s pretend for a minute) and getting involved in a lawsuit would be too distracting and time consuming, wouldn’t it, for the same reasons, prohibit him from suing while in office?
18
Would the US owe Bill Clonton a do-over?
5
It is important to know the previously reported money the Trump - Kushner enterprises have made from the Saudi Arabians ,Russia and other countries that Trump favors ,this can only be answered
by viewing his taxes, I imagine Trump keeps them hidden unlike most previous Presidents as he wishes not to have us know his "bigly" conflicts of interest while as our sitting President .
19
The headline isn’t accurate, but I bet it makes for good clickbait.
The article says Trump’s attorneys are arguing he is immune from prosecution *by state and local prosecutors* while he is in office. That is a lot different than arguing he can’t be investigated by anyone. Obviously he can be investigated by federal prosecutors, since he was for over two years.
If you think it’s fine for NY prosecutors to investigate him for violations of state and local law, ask yourself if you are equally ok with Alabama or Houston prosecutors investigating Elizabeth Warren if she gets elected. Because that is what will happen next. This won’t be limited to one president or party.
2
@Jon
I think it would be limited to the evidence that all prosecutors use to decide whether to press charges.
Warren has no troubles with the law as far as I know. Trump has many.
Law and Order!?
9
What law's has Warren broken in Alabama or Houston ? Trump has engaged in bank fraud in N.Y.
4
@Jon
The republicans investigated the Clintons for years. Elizabeth Warren has done nothing wrong ,Trump on the other hand is committing crimes in plain site everyday.
5
trump's lawyers seem to think he is surrounded by a legal force field.
9
If I decide to run for office, I'll produce my tax returns, absolutely," he said. "And I would love to do that."
"Well, we're working on that now. I have very big returns, as you know, and I have everything all approved and very beautiful and we'll be working that over in the next period of time, Chuck. Absolutely."
"As far as my return, I want to file it, except for many years, I've been audited every year."
"Probably over the next few months."
"I've had it for years. I get audited. And obviously if I'm being audited, I'm not going to release a return," he said.
"As soon as the audit is done, I love it."
"I would love to put them out," he said. "But I'm not going to do it while I'm under audit. It's very simple.”
"Tax experts throughout the media agree that no sane person would give their tax returns during an audit."
17
There is no law or Constitutional Bar against criminally investigating or charging a sitting president. It’s just a memo guys, nothing else.
14
Step I...Defeat this man Nov. 2020
Step 2.... Let the courts have at him as a private citizen
That may the only way to have the legacy he deserves and the peace of mind all but his base will have earned!
17
How ridiculous. Of course he can.
How else would the Congress, who has constitutional oversight of the executive branch, know if the president was compromised? Or any prosecutorial entity?
The power to impeach naturally grants Congress the power to investigate.
The way I see it, Congress and NY State have their own police departments and should dispatch them to enforce their subpoenas.
13
Isn't there evidence in here that Trump's lawyers should be disbarred? I don't have the expertise to opine, but a frivolous lawsuit is basis for disbarment, is it not?
10
Would it be acceptable if Mexico pays for the investigation?
12
trump is not royalty. Nor is is immune from the constitution which was designed so that that executive branch did not abuse power. Was Richard Nixon above investigation and charges? No. Protecting the president against legitimate constitution investigation is to destroy our democracy. If trump is innocent, then he has nothing to hide. Let the investigation go forward, or are we going to have another Eliot Richardson on our hands? Warning: history does not look kindly on those who protect a crook.
11
I didnt know we had a king !
10
Right now we are livng under a fascist regime. He does not recognize laws that affect him. We are in trouble and if we don't fight back and push back HARD, we are going to lose this democracy!
6
If the President spent less time on Twitter, golfing or watching TV then we could worry about how much time he had to work.
7
He can be investigate, perhaps not indicted....very big difference.
Lock him up, Lock him up
7
Smoke And Mirrors......
4
Who forgot to inform Robert Mueller?
3
This argument is specious: The Constitution provides for investigation of the President. It has happened before and it is precisely what is happening at this time in The House pf Representatives.
10
So the US fights its war of independence, against a King, and then drafts a constitution to give the President the rights of a king?
There is no possible way that the Framers intended a President to be immune from prosecution.
No. Way.
23
This is total nonsense and they know it.
If the president started shooting people, continuously molesting women, etc. they'd have to stop him.
Why isn't Congress holding him and his cronies accountable.
The real question is " what is going to take" for Nancy Pelosi to do the "right" thing.
10
He commits murder on day one of his presidency, but we have to wait 4 years (at least) for the investigation to begin. Even the most right-wing lawyers can't seriously believe that the citizens of a republic would accept this drivel.
12
So if he kills or assaults somebody he can’t be indicted? Of course that’s stupid. A president is not above the law.
11
Bwahahaha! That's a good one.
The president can't be indicted while in office. Only impeached.
Only the congress can impeach.
The congress is not allowed to gather the facts.
Are we living in the Twilight Zone?
15
Donald Trump is a criminal. It's clear as day.
11
Aah, the President_is_above the law. Good to know. Everybody's cool with that, right?
7
Tell any child he or she can be President.
And, as a perk for being President, you can add..."You can rob the Treasury blind, pay off witnesses, hire your clueless children, give anyone a top security clearance, falsify your taxes, lie eight ways from Sunday to cover your felonious behavior, and no one can lay a glove on you because you..Tah Dah...El Presidente.
Heck. . even the Tsars or Stalin never had it this good..Is this a great country or what?
13
Did Putin tell him that!
5
This has become insane and we are the laughing stock of the world. Since when has the president become all powerful and a ruler over everyone and everything in this country? Because his lawyers say so? They are paid to say so! I guess they want to see just how really stupid we are.
13
Is their argument... "yet"? (Cue Radiohead's Karma Police)
2
Well hello, impeachment proceeding
2
investigate, indict, prosecute, convict, and execute this traitor.
NOW!
7
"Presidents, they asserted, have such enormous responsibility and play a unique role in government that they cannot be subject to the burden of investigations." Apparently, Trump's lawyers have never met their client.
14
@displaced New Englander
"Presidents, they asserted, have such enormous responsibility..................
Let's see, executive time.....eating greasy burgers, watching endless hours of tv....check........weekends playing golf...check..............attending rallies.......check
Yep he sure is busy.
12
@displaced New Englander
That is a good one. Wish I had thought of that.
1
"Trump Lawyers Argue He Cannot Be Criminally Investigated"
Likely, Adolph Hitler's lawyers, Benito Mussolini's lawyers and Vladimir Putin's lawyers all argued the same thing.
12
One would think there is less substance to the argument regarding whether a sitting president may be charged with a federal crime when they may have committed said crime prior to becoming president, and then boldfaced lying about it.
If voters had their heads screwed on straight, they would flood social media with a challenge to Mr. Trump - either submit your tax records or be denied a vote.
8
There must be stink in those returns that run from Moscow to Trump Tower and Casino.
There's not one single thing that could come from those tax returns that should surprise any but the cultists and the most naive among us.
I just have this feeling Al Capone's lawyers would be screaming the same thing if in the same situation.
I just don't know anymore. Everything is just so screwed up, and I mean everything. Only one thing I know for a fact: Business and families who "think" bury themselves in a hole till this political insanity, not instability, goes away for good.
4
The opening paragraph says it all, not only does Trump thinks he above the law but he thinks and knows he’s a criminal.
8
By filing in SDNY, Trump achieves his goal. The time table of a hearing/trial, then an appeal to the Second Circuit, then an en banc hearing, and then Scotus will take this 20120 election. Just another instance of a hardball approach that only delays things.
Have to defeat him at the polls.
3
If Trump isn't hiding anything, why won't he release his tax returns....as every other president and candidate has VOLUNTARILY done. And if he has done nothing wrong, why is he afraid of criminal prosecution? No one is above the law and no one voted for a king!
11
@Christine Healey
Nixon was the first to release his tax returns, and established the practice. The point was to show he was not a crook. And his tax returns definitely showed that, thus putting the whole matter to rest.
1
President Trump has ample free time to tweet and play golf, and he clearly has many lawyers. Releasing his financial records, as he repeatedly promised to do, shouldn't detract from his duties.
6
Suppose for the sake of argument that trump murdered, or arranged to have murdered, one of the conservative Justices of the Supreme Court? Would trump's argument would fly then? If so, then what accounts for the difference? Ah, yet another rhetorical question.
7
Oh yes, please let's give the office of the president, the power of a king. Because it is odds on a Democrat will take the job in a year. It would be amazing to see what a Democratic president could do, if thoroughly unchecked by the restrictions of the law.
6
This whole experience with President Trump gets weirder and weirder. I can't imagine any lawyer worth his fee, doesn't know this is a democracy, not a totalitarian oligarchy. Wait, maybe they do think it is an oligarchy. He is obviously violating the Emoluments Clause of the U. S Constitution.
With a nod to Lewis Carroll, this is beginning to sound like Donald's Adventures in Wonderland, and we have all fallen down the rabbit hole and met the Mad Hatter.
8
@DOUGLAS LLOYD MD MPH
Mad Hater, actually. Hates Democrats, hates states that did not vote for him, hates the "MSM", hates Obama, hates "people who get captured", etc., etc.
6
@SB: Hates minorities, hates women, hates children, hates the poor, hates the elderly, hates the handicapped, hates immigrants unless they look like they are from NORWAY...
5
The question has been asked many, many times..." Is anyone above the law? " Surely, this must include the President! If it is found by constitutional scholars that the answer is " Yes, the President," then tear up The Constitution & begin to write a new one, the one we have had up to now is null and void. The 2020 election can't come too soon for me. This madness has got to stop!
8
What is the penalty for treason? I think it should be carried out, with prejudice. How can this stand? The Democrats better find their spine because this is end-game stuff now.
6
King Trump!
We are all now subservient to his whims.
3
Immunity rhymes with impunity.
4
orly. so if he actually does stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody, he's free as a bird? and can then go on a murderous rampage, scot free?
have these "lawyers" not heard of "high crimes and misdemeanors"?
7
Isn't it marvelous how people not only reconstruct the language of the Constitution, but also fill in all sorts of things as though it said them when in fact it says no such thing. This clear example of wishful thinking by trump's lawyers is a fine example in creating constitutional principles out of thin air. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the president is above criminal investigation or prosecution. It describes a process for impeachment and removal from office, and mentions that high crimes and misdemeanors can be grounds for this, but it does not even limit the grounds. Further, an amendment allows for removal of a president if he is incapable of performing his duties.
The argument used in the often cited memo by Solicitor General Robert Bork is that the president is just too busy. The "Too Busy" defense is not accepted anywhere else in American life including matters like jury duty. But even if it is allowed that the president is too busy to be indicted and tried, the idea that he cannot be investigated in the time frame in which allegations come to light is legally absurd. This treats the presidency as though it were protected by a statute of limitations which is the term of office, but these are limitations not on trial and conviction but on the gathering of evidence and witness testimony. How could Congress investigate high crimes and misdemeanors if he can't be investigated?
Catch 22.
17
I totally agree. Further, this subpoena requires nothing from Trump; it requires records from his and his organization’s accountants. It theoretically may not even involve potential crimes by Trump. It could be others. This interpretation would shield not only a president but also any associate or co-conspirator of a president. That is absolutely ludicrous.
9
The only issue that really matters is whether Trump committed crimes DURING his time in office and RELATING to his office. If the answer to both is YES, then they are properly relevant to an impeachment proceeding, but not necessarily to a CRIMINAL proceeding. If they happened BEFORE his term of office or UNRELATED to his execution of his duties as president, then his tax returns have nothing to do with his presidency. They are, therefore, relevant to a CRIMINAL investigation but not necessarily to impeachment proceedings. If his tax returns are involved in his work AS president, they may not be subject to investigation as a criminal matter but are relevant to an impeachment proceeding. This may be difficult to parse, but it appears to me that he must produce his tax returns pursuant either to congressional subpoena because they are relevant to an impeachment proceeding, OR to prosecutors because they are relevant to a criminal investigation.
3
@lhc
How are past tax returns relevant to his work as president, or relevant to an impeachment proceeding? When Clinton was impeached, nobody even examined his tax returns or financial records.
The boundaries between what’s taken place while “Governing” (while Trump was President) vs what’s part of running Trump Org are not clear. The idea of a separation should not be an excuse for failing to seek accountability - or at minimum, for investigating.
Then there’s the campaign activity! How many times will his team be allowed to violate the Hatch Act? And is that good for hotel revenue, international security agreements, or...?
Just look at Corey Lewandowski, for crying out loud!
2
@Viv
That's because the Clintons always made their tax returns public like all presidents after Nixon. This guy never has and people still voted for him. That fact if nothing else should have stopped the Trumpers from voting for him.
2
If “cannot be subject to the burden of investigations”, then not to civil suits either (for same reason); and yet, Clinton v Jones permits civil suits.
6
Never mind impeachment; invoke the 25th Amendment, then indict him.
6
If Trump loses the election, his final act as president will be to pardon all the members of his family and himself from federal prosecution. Unprecedented, perhaps even unconstitutional: So what? His act will tie up the case against him for years as it winds through the legal system. He'll be in his dotage before the case is resolved, the conservatives will conduct a sympathy campaign on his behalf and he'll never spend time in jail. He will end where he belongs as an answer in a trivia quiz.
3
You are being too analytical again. You are no longer in a country where that means more than beans. Cambridge, MA was great but it has nothing to do with most of the country.
1
This was meant for Ilya Shlyather’s comment
1
No man is above the law. If this is allowed to stand, then the American republic is doing exactly what happened to the Roman republic – allowing leaders to commit criminal acts and be immune from prosecution while they are in office. This is un-American and un-democratic. It’s tyrannical. Impeach now.
10
What about the Paula Jones case? I realize the facts are different, but nonetheless President Clinton was forced to deal with a civil case during his presidency.
"Clinton v. Jones, 520 U.S. 681 (1997), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case establishing that a sitting President of the United States has no immunity from civil law litigation, in federal court, against him or her, for acts done before taking office and unrelated to the office.[1] In particular, there is no temporary immunity, so it is not required to delay all federal cases until the President leaves office."
7
Might as well face facts: Trump is Above the Law.
Until 12:01 PM Eastern January 20, 2021.
4
Any his supporters are the ones draped in the flag screaming “deep state” from the mountain tops.
4
I thought no one was above the law in the US.
6
This dispute will go all the way to the Supreme Court, where they will decide that Trump is emperor for life. All hail Supreme Leader!
2
Investigations are illegal too! These jokers must have been sampling some of the California pot while they were harassing the state over homelessness. If investigations are illegal then investigations into possible impeachment are illegal too. Come on now guys, go back to school and learn about the checks and balances in our Constitution, you are sounding more and more like putin with each nonsensical response toward investigating a criminal.
4
When you see all this stuff - day after day, month after month, year after year - reported in the New York Times, or the Washington Post, as an outsider - not necessarily an objective observer - that your president is doing (taxes, sexual assault, bribery, campaign finance, emoluments, maybe treason with Putin) you start to wonder:
Has the United States become completely apathetic, or impotent, or feckless? Or all of that...
6
kakistocracy
1
Isn’t it kakastocracy :-)
1
"If the president does it, that means it's not illegal." -- Richard Milhous Nixon. But I don't think even Nixon would dare stretch that specious argument to include acts done in a private capacity and prior to taking office, as trump does.
4
The Trump regime is using every legal, extra-legal and illegal trick in the book to protect Trump from civil and criminal liability. It has the full and complete endorsement of not only AG Barr but also — by its silence, the U.S. Senate Republican majority, and the Party at large.
Ultimately, this strategy relies upon the Supreme Court deciding that a sitting President is immune from investigation and prosecution — even including high crimes and misdemeanors. Trump’s lawyers are asserting in effect that Presidential power is unlimited and above legal reproach for any activities committed while in office including, apparently, treason.
Our Founding Fathers would be gobsmacked. But this is likely to be how the current Court will rule. Only Chief Justice Roberts stands in the way of the creation of an authoritarian ruler, reminiscent of King George III.
8
At this point we are so far Through the Looking Glass that there is clearly no end. In effect this legal defense is akin to taking the Fifth. And the Republican Party is okay with this? Don’t bother to answer. It is a rhetorical question.
5
There is absolutely nothing in any Article of the Constitution of the United States of America that forbids a President of the United States from being criminally investigated, indicted, tried, convicted and sentenced.
In our divided limited different power constitutional republic of united states every elected and selected government official is a citizen first and last. Neither above nor below the law.
13
The president “cannot be subject to criminal process, for conduct of any kind, while he is serving as president,” the lawyers wrote in the complaint,
His lawyers are obligated to give it a whirl, but rational Americans are not obligated to swallow it. Really? That's your argument? Please try something, practically anything, less insulting.
How else will we get rid of the criminal running our country if he is not subjected to criminal process—investigated? If he had fulfilled his campaign promise, the tax returns would be public years ago. Where else in the world would citizens eat this kind of slop without heaving it up on the spot? (Yes, I know, Russia.) How long would this argument have lasted for Obama, had he once in eight years done something that Republicans could have called him on?
There will always be a legal argument, but there is also a rational, common sense argument that voters will smell if they cannot see it. I hope so anyway.
4
I have no doubt the Republican supreme court will agree to anything Trump or his lawyers suggest.
2
And all of the base couldn’t agree more.
1
So if a president goes on a mayhem and murder rampage while in office, can he be stopped? And if he can be stopped alive, does this mean he can't be prosecuted and tried for such crimes? Was DJT correct when claiming he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue with no consequences (except maybe a rise in his popularity)?
What say you, "lawyer for President Trump"?
5
Are they implying the president is above the law? I do not think this is what the founding fathers intended.
3
Next thing you know he'll declare himself President for Life. And the Republican court will back him.
4
No one is above the law as Nixon found out.
5
What did he found out? He did not go to jail, some poor devil did for smoking a joint in the wrong place.
Wake up!
2
Enough already.
Is DJ Trump under the influence of foreign entities or not?
It's time to play hardball with all these insipid Trump lawyer 'subpoena blocks.'They need to be ignored equally to the White House's actions to the ignore the rule of law.
6
Republicans certainly thought Presidents could be prosecuted when Clinton was President.
11
I feel sure, had Our Founders intended that the POTUS to be shielded from any criminal, or civil, "investigation", they would have stated it.
5
Only a king is above the law, and there is no king of the USA: we got rid of that in 1776. It’s against the Constitution to prosecute a king? The Constitution prosecutes anyone who thinks they’re the king of the USA- therefore, prosecute Trump!
3
Unfortunately every such episode proves to me that we need to change our constitution now. He clearly is getting away with being above the law. The Law is protecting him by being so obscure and archaic. He learned well from Freddy Trump and of course Roy Cohn. The most despicable lawyer of all.
The Times and the press in general should keep writing editorials and getting clear thinking constitutional law professors (in simple English, it can be done) writing OpEds every single day explaining the flaws and the difficulties that lead to Trump still being President after almost 3 years.
Patriots as opposed to jingoistic bigots who revel in the failed American Rhetoric should take to the streets if necessary. This is the meaning of civil disobedience, when the supposedly legitimate government ceases to be legitimate in the People’s eyes and minds, you disobey authority.
4
Well, gee..."nice" to know that this president is officially "above the law". Too bad we couldn't have extended the same courtesy to Bill Clinton...I wonder just how many criminal acts this President will have gotten away with by the time his term ends.
6
Nobody is above the law. The law is supreme and the mentally incapacitated is way below the law
3
The first president who could be indicted under the RICO statute. Another first for the stable genius. How about some spine Dems?
4
I had a dream about this. Trump in his cell was looking in a mirror trying to squeeze into an orange jumpsuit, but couldn't do it without his waist cincher on first. His hair had been shorn and what was left was white. They had taken away his phone and his Twitter finger was just vibrating uncontrollably by his side. McConnell was in the cell next to him rambling on about how the Senate couldn't function without him and banging his head against the wall. In fact the prison was at full capacity with many members of his former administration, rattling the bars of their cages in their shared anger. It was a good dream, and I hope will soon be reality.
4
Who could have known that protecting & defending the constitution would require ignoring so many court orders? The pilot of the looming bankruptcy is fiddling with the flaps.
2
Well then I hope they have the warrants ready for when the administration switches over.
2
Transparency good for others — Obama, release your birth certificate! Transparency bad for me — I won’t release my tax records or allow any constitutional oversight!
5
Totally insane. Lock him up. And the lawyers.
3
I’m glad to know God’s address.
For a man who adamantly claims he has done nothing wrong he is acting like the most guilty man on the planet. Please remove this criminal from our White House.
5
Just do it.
3
Guess only chumps pay taxes
3
was i hallucinating when a certain president told us that he is the most 'transparent' president, ever?
for being so transparent he sure tries to block and stonewall.
3
My late dad would have a real lot to say about Trump, and none of it would be printable by the Times.
2
IF one is innocent, and one loves the US more then anyone ever in history, as Trump claims, he would trust that his holier than thou innocence would shine like his golden throne (the one in the Trump Tower in his personal loo) and he'd be vindicated and shown to be as pure as the driven snow.
Do real saints ever behave with such belligerence when accused of being cheats?
The belligerence of the Trump Organization - which is what his sycophants and hired guns belong to, not a WH Admin - stinks like any Mafia Bosses.
The pot is on the stove, and the water is boiling folks...but we're the frogs!
2
Erin Schaff took a nice photograph. Is Trump coming or going?
1
Hahaha! It appears that Trump's lawyers are ever more stupid than their client. Everyone knows Trump is above the law, that's been proven time and time again, but there is a limit and he has likely reached it.
3
It is disappointing for our country that the highest PUBLIC office can be immune from an investigation of his personal business dealings to verify any conflict of interest. The President supposedly owns over 500 companies, many of them likely shell companies which are great for hiding ownership and transactions and perfect for laundering money. Trump's bizarre behavior toward the Russians and Saudi's is reason enough to pry open those businesses to find out if there is any favoritism going on. As a nation, we cannot allow this kind of secrecy to ever happen again.
5
Nixon repeatedly claimed executive privilege during Watergate.
He got nailed eventually.
Trump is not above the law, he's just claiming he is.
6
And Nixon went to jail?
The poor devil who smoked a joint in the wrong part of the city did!
2
I don't think there's anything in the Constitution that protects Trump from being investigated. But on the outside chance that the Republicans and Fox news manage to twist it so Trump cannot be investigated, then Congress must do its duty and impeach this man.
10
@Barbara Republicans & Fox want to outlaw the Constitution!
3
He said not long ago he will release his income facts before the election. He said they would be the biggest and best, and we would all be surprised at how awesome they are.
4
It's obvious that trump's game plan is to do all the damage the Republicans want until the courts catch up with him. Yet that will be many years at the current pace. Maybe our good founding fathers never contemplated this scenario where scoundrels now occupy the seats they do. So, note to the country and electorate: This will continue to happen unless congress writes new laws, that when it does, the court process will be fast tracked without delay. And the sooner the better.
7
@Our Road to Hatred -
Recall that it was precisely because of Starr's overreach that Congress replaced the Independent Counsel with Special Counsel having reduced power and underneath the auspices of the Executive branch
2
Abraham Lincoln is often (falsely) credited with originating the saying that “the Constitution is not a suicide pact.” Regardless of its actual source, this is a good time to give it some thought, particularly as the GOP continues to expand the powers of the Executive by wildly expansive interpretations of the document.
5
Not claiming that he is innocent, only that any criminal investigation is unconstitutional. Its sad and dangerous that we have a President who thinks he is above the law.
4
Looks like the divine right of kings is alive and well in America, cloaked in a massively expansive view of executive privilege. The last year has clearly demonstrated that the Executive branch answers to no one. Ms Pelosi, you shoulder the blame for most of that.
6
Everybody is playing the short version of the trump board game; play by play. What most don't understand is that he's playing the long game ( the game he's played his whole career). He will be dead and buried before he and his bunch and are removed either by the courts or by the military to physically remove him. And they know and rely on the "shock" to befuddle the "good" people of the USA.
5
The GOP has supported States rights. Why has that changed now?
4
Trump lawyers argue he cannot be criminally investigated. Key words: Trump lawyers.
6
So, a president can be impeached for "high crimes and misdemeanors," but Trump's lawyers claim no one should be allowed to investigate suspicions of such?
I guess this could be called a "Catch 45."
8
So I wonder if this is what trump voters thought they were getting by voting for this guy. If something significant doesn't happen to check this potus based on constitutional law, our country is done. And to be blunt, trump isn't worth giving up our country to.
3
So we now have a King presiding over the US Government?
The GOP has been the weak link in the democratic experiment. It’s time has passed.
5
So, he could shoot someone on fifth avenue in broad daylight, and he would go without prosecution. Is that the argument?
4
"The president’s legal team is trying to block a subpoena seeking his tax returns, claiming that any criminal investigation of Mr. Trump is unconstitutional."......First the Justice Department rules that the President can't be indicted. Now they are arguing that the president can't even be investigated. There you have it - King Trump.
6
How can it be that a sitting president is immune from investigation for a crime? He is an American citizen. The tax returns were subpoenaed. He still refuses to turn them over. That's a crime. Either you comply with a subpoena or you go to jail. It's the law of the land.
5
It seems the real story here is that American democracy now teeters on the actions, intentions, words, and behavior of a man who says the laws do not apply to him, that he is greater and above any statute, rule, or even judicial decision unless he, Donald Trump, happens to agree with it. America coming undone by a corrupt and lawless man.
5
At an Iowa campaign rally in early 2016 Donald Trump declared "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." Now he has staked out an even more ridiculous position--even after losing the popular vote by 2.87 million votes--that he could not be prosecuted for murder, as long as he had waited until after his inauguration to pull the trigger. A very Putinesque assertion.
4
Essentially, "If the president does it, it's not illegal."
As it turns out, sometimes history DOES repeat.
3
Well, then, what was all the talk from Republicans about President Obama's "lawless" behavior about. In particular and specifically, and often, Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz used the word "lawless" in reference to President Obama many times. Roll the tape.
The fact is, the republican party has become the party of lawless dictatorship.
4
People who have things to hide, hide them people who don’t do not. Trump has committed tax fraud for decades why else would you go to these lengths to hide them.
2
At some point, Trump's blank is going to get fried, and he knows it. Better to arrange a preemptive resignation with full pardons for any actions made while in office, and let Pence take over. Ah, then we can speculate on the 2020 ticket: I kind of like Trump-Perry.
1
Anything that displeases Trump must be unconstitutional. He is the anointed one, right? He is going to declare an emergency and suspend elections.
4
Who cares if he can/cannot be indicated. Why withhold this information if he didn't do anything wrong.
3
The fact that any man would even put such an argument forward should be grounds for immediate dismissal.
4
He is the president. Nothing more. And if he commits a crime while in office then he must be prosecuted.
He is not above the law regardless of what he or his minions believe.
4
According to the Republicans, Trump is a monarch who is above the law and cannot be investigated for criminal and illegal activities.
Why have a Constitution and three separate and presumably equal divisions of government if it is not going to be applied and enforced?
The Republicans are always saying that they are conservatives and believe in limited government.
When it comes to Trump and an expansive concept of executive power they are neither. They are being exposed as hypocrites who care more about power and partisanship than the law and democracy.
This is beyond distressing and augurs poorly for the future of our Republic as a vibrant democracy.
3
Sadly, most if not all Trump supporters have no problem with an imperial president who rules like a despot. He ran on this premise with his “shoot anyone on 5th Avenue” line. This conveys a clear message of the need to be above the law in order to properly carry out an agenda. The Republican Party sees the constitution and democratic principles as nothing but obstacles to their rule, just like kings and despots.
4
Sadly, our President thinks the Constitution is another reference to his gut instincts.
4
When is this criminal going to be prosecuted? He is above the law on everything and has gotten away with criminal activity his entire life. This criminal and his whole crime organization/family needs to vacate the premises that taxpayers are funding.
5
NO way. Our constitution is very clear that the Congress has the role of overseeing the presidency. How can you do this without at some time investigating? I'm sick and tired of having a dictator in the oval office. If we've elected a possible criminal then an investigation must be carried out. Our founders saw to that.
4
Barr is still insisting Trump should be considered our king above the law for all practical purposes of course this only applies to republican presidents. Trump is so fanatical about hiding his tax returns while he is busy cashing in on the presidency along with his family. No wonder Trump wants his Roy Cohn and he got him in the person of AG Barr sent in by the GOP to save TRump so they can get judges and tax cuts.
4
NY State can also file a civil suit to recover moneys from him. The Supreme Court has already ruled on this one. Just ask Bill Clinton.
3
It's interesting that there is no more discussion of the president not being above the law.
4
That argument may well be good and protect a sitting president from many or most crimes. But illegal behavior that led to the president in question’s election-such as hush money paid to a pornographic performer and lover of say, just for argument’s sake, President Trump should not be barred!
2
Protecting the Constitution- Trump can’t even spell the word.
And since candidate Trump PROMISED to release his tax returns after the (probably) imaginary audit, they should be fair gamed to prosecutors.
Anyway Donald Trump is a citizen, just like you and me, the law should apply to him as it does us!
4
So we’ve gone from “President cannot be indicted” to “President can not be investigated”. May as well take the next step: “It is a crime to speak poorly of the President”.
5
So. I guess we're not doing that whole rule of law thing anymore. Good to know.
7
As far as I know there is no law which states the President cannot be prosecuted. I believe it is an OPINION of the Justice department.
6
Trump’s lawyers are correct. There are significant constitutional issues in seeking the president’s personal and business tax returns: The constitutional issue of having a compromised unfit president. Clearly Trump fears releasing his taxes. Maybe it’s merely the sham of pretending to be extremely wealthy when he is extremely not, but maybe it’s about exposing the dark money propping him up, cosigning his multimillion dollar loans. If Trump were indebted to members of the Russian mob for millions of dollars, wouldn’t that be an impeachable offense? Show us the taxes.
3
The president “cannot be subject to criminal process, for conduct of any kind, while he is serving as president,” the lawyers wrote in the complaint. This is nonsense and very loose interpretation of the Constitution which hopefully any unbiased court will reject.
Trump is a criminal and sooner or later justice will prevail.
4
No investigation and pardons on his last day as President . The Constitution as rewritten by Trump and his cronies . Seems we had a revolution against a King who was the law .
4
Trump has a choice.
1--bow out now with a "serious" health condition.
or
2--spend the next 5 years fighting off impeachment and corruption lawsuits (if god forbids he wins reelection).
This is his life now.
3
3) end up in a federal jail as Bernie Madoff’s roommate.
6
On the very face of it, this makes no sense at all. Zero.
In a country where the founding principles state that all men are created equal, nobody—even the president, even the president when he has a lot of dollars and lots of sycophants kissing his feet— is above the law. When we Americans decide that that's not the case, there are lots of other places to live that +haven't+ forgotten the lessons that the United States of America has given them,
George Washington refused the monarchy, but George Washington had no malevolent wish for his country.
Thump would take the crown (presidency for life) in a minute, lacking even a single scruple regarding the intent of our democracy. A crown is a wonderful thing to have when it protects you from every accusation.
Sorry Don, we don't do crowns. You may think (seems wrong just to write those words) that we have some secret law that lets the president borrow a crown, that allows the president to break any law, that tolerates the filth that you have brought to your office.
Most citizens don't know that secret law. So why are most republican congressmen are pretending that it's the law of the land?
4
None of this happens if we had one man one vote. Hillary won by millions. Our system isn’t working because we don’t have majority rule. The minority elected Christian Conservatives that run our country give their blessing to every outrage committed by this administration.
3
States are independent semi-sovereigns that have dual jurisdiction in criminal proceedings with the federal government. See Paul Manafort. While the Supremacy Clause will only apply or preempt state action if and only if their is an actual federal law or full scope of federal regulation on the books prohibiting a particular act by a state government. While the USDOJ through Robert Mueller did refused to take action based on a previous USDOJ 'policy' memorandum, that CLEARLY does not rise to the level of a federal statute or regulation that would prohibit or preempt state action.
3
I suspect in filed joint returns and his wife can go to jail.
3
When has Trump ever been concerned about the Constitution?
2
What if the prosecutor is not trying to advance his career? What if the president is just plain rotten to the core?
3
Trump can't be held libel for his actions as the president, but anything before or after he can hang for, and hopefully will.
2
The last time a President said they were above the law, that President resigned in disgrace.
We can hope...
2
What part of the constitution does Trump's team contend supports their claim that he is immune from criminal inquiries? Despite stating upfront that the legal team argues "the Constitution effectively makes sitting presidents immune," this article does not make clear the constitutional basis for the lawyers' arguments, rather cites their concern with political motivation and "bad faith." Perhaps the lawyers simply do not have a strong constitution footing (obviously). Then, why roll with this NYT?
2
The Constitution and the rule of law trump DOJ policy memos.
3
Under the Law
Everyone is Equal or there is
No Law
3
There is no law. In the US (not universally).
3
Nothing? No way? No how?
Simply put the argument is that the President is above the law and can do as he (and you know if the president was a woman there would be restrictions found) wants. Imperial. King. God on earth. Infallible.
4
Preposterous. They are arguing that the correct interpretation of the law is that nobody can investigate or charge the president while he's in office, regardless of what jurisdiction or time frame the alleged offenses took place.
I have a hard time seeing framers who were rabid about checks and balances making the executive branch immune from all investigation at any time. Utter nonsense and those lawyers should be embarrassed. I realize they have to try something, but this isn't even mailing it in it's so bad.
3
Along with the national security crisis involving Trump now upon us, and the ongoing impeachment inquiry by the House, let’s get this critical financial information on con-man Trump as quickly as possible—
So that he can be summarily dealt with in the name of the people of the United States.
3
There is no constitutional argument contained in this article.
2
If we were to criminally investigate presidents, let's start with
Bush for his WMD lie in Iraq, and then Obama for his "biggest accounting fraud in history" for misusing student loanss (according to WSJ), before we investigate Trump for ..
.. oh, we'll find something to investigate. like making promises to foreign leaders and playing golf, things like that that no previous president did.
So the constitution says the President is above the law?
2
So, "the king can do no wrong," eh? Then I guess trump really could shoot someone in the street and no one would do anything, just as he boasted.
If the courts agree to this, then we officially have a dictatorship, folks.
2
If this assertion is true, some day there will be a serial killer who, sensing the cops closing in, runs for president to shut down the investigation.
Um, no. Perhaps the president cannot be indicted or put on trial, but investigated? Those under investigation are under no obligation to speak to investigators, so there is no burden on the president's time. That is something beyond nonsense, even in Trumpland.
3
So Trump makes an argument that has never been made for.
The constitution was finished baking in September of 1787.
It was ratified in 1788.
So after 242 years they pull this out. We don’t want to know about where they pulled it out from. We want it out back.
Here is what the lawyers are counting on. Their enablers will legitimate outrages with accommodating language:
“Taking a broad position that the lawyers acknowledged had not been tested, the president’s legal team argued in the complaint that the Constitution effectively makes sitting presidents immune from all criminal inquiries until they leave the White House.”
And the Times effectively concedes this newly made up position is not contradicted by existing precedent. Which is a big lie.
Why? Times bends its reporting to accommodate the powerful so it just issues press releases received from Trump attorneys making up stuff. See how democracy is killed? It takes a village. Thanks Times.
3
Oddly enough Trump, as Nixon before him, will be responsible for rulings that demonstrate no one is above the law!
Trump will end up in prison!
2
Someone correct me if I am wrong; the position of POTUS is that of a public servant and if a public servant is beyond the reach of the nation's laws, then that person ceases to be a public servant and a king/dictator.
I cannot think of any other Western nation where that notion of a leader being beyond the laws of the nation they lead, even being mildly entertained.
3
When does this end- and will the America we know and love survive any more of this Mafioso type rule? Let's get real here folks- Trump is acting above the law and until the Republican party has their wake up call, we are living in a pseudo dictatorship- it is not a democracy. I've asked this question for three years now- where are the adults in the room?
4
Trump has turned and continues to try and turn the Presidency into a scheme and a con like every other endeavor he has been involved in.
4
The President is not Emperor.
The day a President is not subjected to criminal law and prosecution like every other US resident and citizen is is the day the US becomes a monarchy or a dictatorship.
4
What possible justification could there be for a president being legally, criminally untouchable? That’s courting disaster, just waiting for the time when a monster like Donald Trump made it into the White House. If anything, those rules (if, indeed, there are any such rules) need to be changed just for Trump, and the changes made unassailable. No one should be above the law, if we want the law to mean anything. It’s bad enough that people of means can already buy their own degree of “justice”. Make America Great. Dump Trump.
5
You have to appreciate their honesty about their belief that a president cannot be held accountable for his crimes.
1
Republicans love to cite the constitution 'As Is' until it doesn't work for them then construe meaning...
2
So an investigation on a possible criminal act by a President is unconstitutional....
I guess it’s then Constitutional to have a criminal as President?
3
Are taxpayers funding this sham lawsuit? If Trump wants to file frivilous suits so that he can defy the law by stalling and blocking legal subpoenas, then he should be funding the suit himself - out of his own pockets.
3
Is there ANYTHING Donald Trump’s attorneys wouldn’t do if
paid enough money?
3
So he really could shoot someone on 5th Ave, and be immune from investigation and prosecution?
1
Trump is not the problem. Trump cannot help but be his own horrible terrible no good self. The problem is the GOP enablers who gleefully allow the ongoing dismantling of our constitution and our country.
3
Here's an idea: Try him in absentia. It's an honored practice dating to Medieval England. As a news reporter, I use a similar argument with hostile sources: I want your comments; if you refuse, I will still try to tell your side fairly and accurately but it would be much better for you if you tell it yourself. Try him in absentia, convict if the facts merit, then either wrest him from the White House - you could arrest him legally the moment he sets foot in New York or any other state New York has extradition rights with - or have him serve out his term knowing he will be arrested and jailed the second he leaves office.
3
Trump would show in his tax returns but Pence ate them.
2
If Spiro Agnew had known he was constitutionally free of investigation and tax fraud, as well as Al Capone, they'd have run on the ticket together.
3
OK, it is official, and comes from legal experts: President Trump is above the law. First it was that he could not be indicted, now he's Above the Law. What next...King Trump vs Emperor Trump?
3
Trump is probably running a crime syndicate so of course he doesn't want anyone to see how much the Saudis and Russia have given him in pay to play.
3
What's with the Democrats? Trump is handing them his own impeachment. They seem to be gutless.
1
This is what happens when a guy writes a memo in 1973 and everybody takes it way too seriously.
2
The hypocrisy of ALL of this. Trump as POTUS is not above the law. It's in the Constitution. Where are any of these so-called patriotic Republicans? We've got a real time espionage and treason and they remain silent. It's unconscionable.
3
There is a gunshot and the sound comes from the Oval Office. The Secret Service bursts in to see Adam Schiff on a pool of blood; a Flock 9 mm gun is lying on the floor, halfway between Donald Trump and the body. "I didn't do it!" Donald says with his arms raised in the air.
So, no investigation because Trump is immune from prosecution? No fingerprints and no review of the audio and videotapes? Don't be stupid. Of course there would be an investigation and the results turned over to the House.
3
Unless Trump is ashamed of his tax returns, or his returns are hiding something potentially criminal like money laundering, why is he afraid to release them?
3
Trump's lawyers might be ill advised to take this argument before judges .... who might just settle the untested opinion that a president cannot be prosecuted. Because that will pull the rug out from Trumps lapdog AG at a federal level.
3
So the US Constitution permits presidents to be criminals. But the 2nd Amendment gives all of us the right to own guns to protect our freedom from a corrupt government. But the president can declare us terrorists and lock us up, so he can keep being a criminal and take away our freedoms. Sounds just like a Republican form of government.
3
What. Is. He. Hiding.?
Does he not know how guilty this makes him look?
3
No is above the law. No one.
3
Say that again!
American Rhetoric at its best.
2
The US has presented itself to the world as the beacon of democracy. The American people have considered their system of government to be superior. You have your constitution. There are ‘checks and balances’. And then in walks Trump. It turns out you are one tiny step sideways from a dictatorship.
2
The right and the "Acting Administration" are making up new laws as they go, hoping their packed right wing courts will uphold a president's immunity from even treason
3
Expectedly.
Of course he sues. It's what he does.
He bankrupts, stiffs investors, cheats contractors and sues them, he sues the banks that loaned him money which he couldn't/wouldn't repay. He sues people who sue him - civil complaints, legal disputes about anything and everything. He lies, he cheats, he sues. He's been involved in over 3500 lawsuits.
His refusal to let anyone get see his tax returns is because they would sink him. Either there is criminal exposure - (fraud, money laundering, Russians? Saudis? Chinese?) - overwhelming evidence that he pays no tax, personal humiliation for not being nearly as wealthy as he claims or all of the above.
Everything he says and does is evidence of willingness to ignore rules, to push the limits of civility, to see what he can get away with. His thousands of lies and historically shady business "deals" tell a story he's desperate to deny - he's a crook or a fraud or both.
The SDNY has an obligation to uphold the law and pursue it wherever it leads. If he refuses to cooperate, they should ...... sue him.
3
Imagine for just a minute if President Obama was suspected of collaborating secretly with an adversary. Republicans would be screaming "treason" and "arrest him" in a heartbeat! And Democrats, while not rushing to judgment, would be encouraging the whistleblower to make his or her case known publicly at once.
1
Being elected president doesn't make you above the law.
2
So the president could take an AK or AR up to the gallery of the House of Representatives and spray the reps in their seats and he couldn’t be prosecuted. I really didn’t know that.
3
Am I reading this right? It’s Trump’s lawyers who consider the tax return release a constitutional issue?
I think the NY Times has a correction to make. This is obviously all happening in Crazy Town, not New York.
2
It has been a shattering administration.
First the actual Muller report was printed in really tiny print, and now America has to witness really idiotic legal arguments from the anointed one's stellar legal teams.
Now if the bogus legal argument that a sitting president cannot be investigated for prostitution payoffs, laundering Russian mafia money, and writing > 35 times on Trump's quiz from Robert Muller, that he forgets,
if this burst of legal nonsense cannot be sorted out promptly in a courtroom,
then America ids faced with the reality that we have a mentally compromised president and our courts cannot function in an adult manner.
3
Why are there any lawyers willing to work for Donald Trump? The man clearly views lawyers with contempt and sees them as nothing more than Tom Hagen-like consiglieres.
3
Trump's consiglieres are arguing that their crime don is above the law. How amusing. Time to put all of this gang in prison!
4
Does this mean that Trump can call Pelosi and Schumer into a meeting, shoot them both, and he can't be investigated for murder, much less arrested?
3
usa usa usa - now a vast criminal enterprise.
3
The subversion of the modern, liberal republic continues unabated.
The once, current, and future Criminal does everything possible to thwart our country's ordinary legal proceedings and precedent.
I keep stupidly asking myself how much longer this can go on. Apparently, a lot longer--all to the detriment of a great country.
2
Trump should be in the cell next to Madoff’s. If he weren’t a crook, he wouldn’t need to be immune from prosecution
3
Would that blanket immunity cover "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody"? Just wonderin'.
3
So we're now a nation of men, not laws. Pity that the man in charge is so venal and incompetent.
2
"Trump Lawyers Argue He Cannot Be Criminally Investigated". Granted that an obscure DOJ policy memo can stop him from being indicted, but their claim that there can not be criminal investigation is unconstitutional inane. This blanket immunity means Trump can kill his opponents, use Trump Tower for drug dealing and for human trafficking and still can not be indicted. Let us call the US the Banana Republic and call it a day. And we should have the Republican Party leadership, the Senate and members of US Congress on record about their position on this matter without any mealy mouth words.
4
There is no way the Founding Fathers ever envisioned a “man” such as trump being president. There is no way that we can allow a “man” such as trump to sit in the Oval Office any longer. Barr is a disgrace as the AG of this country. The Republican senators are a disgrace to our Constitution. If ever a president needed congressional oversight, it is this “man”. We are living in a dictatorship with this current administration.
3
You can run but you can’t hide. Once he leaves office (hoping and praying it’s January 20, 2021) he’s going to spend the rest of his life drowning in hundreds of legal woes. I hope those in charge go after him full force the day he steps out of the WH.
3
The president must be subject to criminal law.
Period. Full Stop.
2
No man is above the law, a), and b) Trump is a child.
2
A presidency gone rogue.
2
Trump is exhausting, dividing and devaluing the nation. Even critics of the NYT “opinion” (news?)paper can agree he should go. Throw out the scoundrel. The next one can’t be worse.
2
It's critical to this presidency to establish the right "to shoot somebody on 5th Avenue" and not have it even investigated during the ongoing cover-up––ahem––remaining term.
1
If he did something illegal before becoming president, we need to know.
I am tired of his lackeys working to cover up his misdeeds. He needs to go.
3
There is a great episode of Law & Order involving a lawyer, played masterfully by Ron Leibman, who is finally indicted for having been so helpful to his mob clients that he is deemed to have conspired with them to commit crimes. I wonder if this principle can be applied to the lawyers protecting this maladministrator.
3
He is a criminal and criminals get investigated.
4
@Steve Ell
Yes, they are failing to adhere to their oaths. Because they are afraid of Trump the Bully.
Melania is afraid of the same guy, but either way she ends up a winner.
His son ...............
How would you like his son to end up ?
1
Unfortunately every such episode proves to me that we need to change our constitution now. He clearly is getting away with being above the law. The Law is protecting him by being so obscure and archaic. He learned well from Freddy Trump and of course Roy Cohn. The most despicable lawyer of all.
The Times and the press in general should keep writing editorials and getting clear thinking constitutional law professors (in simple English, it can be done) writing OpEds every single day explaining the flaws and the difficulties that lead to Trump still being President after almost 3 years.
Patriots, as opposed to jingoistic bigots who revel in the failed American Rhetoric, should take to the streets if necessary. This is the meaning of civil disobedience, when the supposedly legitimate government ceases to be legitimate in the People’s eyes and minds, you disobey authority.
4
Laws don’t matter apparently...for Trump. Dangerous times...
1
Does the United States have a Constitution that dictates that 'no citizen is above the law'? Or is that Constitution now, in the Age of Trump, a work of fiction..?
The answer will decide if the United States is still a democratic republic, or has been Trumped into something else entirely, where the president is above the law.
I take only small comfort in the fact that the last time a president tried the "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal." it did not end well for that president... we can hope that Trump's adventure with this ends the same way.
6
If so, the office is that of a dictator, not president of a republic.
387
@NB
Who's footing the bill for this armada of lawsuits around the country? Is it the taxpayers? The legal profession was dying until Trump came along; now every half-baked graduate is assured of a job running interference for a crook, just filing motion after motion, trying to run out the clock.
14
This is ridiculous. So he really is a king? And if he shoots someone dead on 5th Avenue he can't be prosecuted? The founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
330
@Chris M. I’m sure Richard Nixon is spinning as well. He had a bit of trouble with his taxes while in office. His problems were the beginning of presidential candidates’ opening their taxes to scrutiny as an expected norm.
10
The Trump legal team's claim is both nonsense and autocracy. This is banana republic stuff.
315
@Hugh Banana republics are more fair and democratic.
12
@Hugh, I think that only hardcore trumpists haven't noticed that as a result of the Trump administration, we have now become the biggest banana republic of all.
3
Why aren’t his supporters the least bit concerned about what he is trying to hide?
411
@Thomas Pain Because his supporters like believing in him and they just don't want to know what he may be hiding.
61
@Thomas Pain
His base thinks he’s the Chosen One and will usher in the Millennium.
36
@Thomas Pain Have you seen the latest line of MAGA hats? They come with noise-cancelling ear flaps.
45
I don't get it.
Trump has repeatedly boasted about his immense wealth and about his stellar success as an international business man -- and about how spectacularly intelligent he is.
So why does he wage this complex legal battle to prevent the release of his tax returns when they would document both his immense wealth and his stellar success as an international business man.
Maybe he's not as spectacularly intelligent as he claims.
412
@JK: "Maybe he's not as spectacularly intelligent as he claims." And I would add: Or as spectacularly wealthy, or as spectacularly honest or as spectacularly truthful or as spectacularly.... fill in the blank. What he is, however, is a spectacular master manipulator and con-man extraordinaire. All of which will, spectacularly, continue to unravel.
54
@JK
It's all about his base. He knows that there is something in there that will cost him his base and his office.
38
@JK Same reason he is desperate to hide his grades and test scores. The man is a Fraud.
81
If Donald Trump had nothing to hide, he would have disclosed his tax returns voluntarily as he promised to do while on the 2016 Campaign trail and has now back-tracked on that promise into a NY State lawsuit. Every candidate since Watergate and on both sides of the aisle has released tax returns as a matter of course, without hesitation and in good faith. But no, not Donald Trump because he simply does not and never has operated on good faith...that is for losers.
You may recall Donald’s excuse - he could not release his tax returns because he was under audit. Warren Buffet debunked that nonsense within days of Donald's excuse that he, too, was under audit but released his tax returns (which this newspaper published) because there is no provision in the tax code prohibiting the release of tax returns while under audit.
Donald Trump has duped the American public into believing he is an honest, forthright, straight shooter when nothing could be further from the truth.
Installing Donald Trump as President of the United States will go down in history as the biggest political and ideological mistake of all time. Even former Special Counsel Robert Mueller, testifying before Congress on live television stated, “if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” Keep digging!
467
@kkm He has duped only some of the American public. There are many of us who know he's a complete fraud and many who realized that decades ago.
42
@kkm Great comment (especially on the audit nonsense)! Except this statement:
"Donald Trump has duped the American public into believing he is an honest, forthright, straight shooter when nothing could be further from the truth. "
is not true. It is of course emphatically true that nothing could be further from the truth, but it is not true that he has duped the American public to believe such nonsense. The majority of voters did not vote for him, nor will they do so now. None of these voters believe he is honest, forthright, a straight shooter, or has any type of honesty, integrity, morality, generosity, altruism, or good character.
And of course his voters know exactly what kind of disreputable, swindling, narcissistic, bullying, racist, charlatan he is. But here's the thing that often gets lost. Sometimes you read that his voters support him despite his horrible characteristics. In fact, they support him just for those reasons. He hates those who they hate. He punishes those who they want to punish. He trods on those who need help the most. And they love it. It's up with white supremacy, up with the patriarchy, up with discrimination against the least protected amongst us. If you're brown, female, LGBT, Mexican, Muslim, and on, he is after you. He practices the rankest, most vial type of identity politics, and those whose identity he is protecting -- white, male and Christian and those who wish they were -- love it and love him.
61
An innocent person would be eager to present their taxes as proof of no wrong-doing.
508
@Andrea r -- Yes. I continue to wonder what it is Trump is trying so hard to hide. It is a great mystery.
An even greater mystery is why so many Americans, seemingly intelligent and reasoning, thinking Americans, are willing, even eager to ignore all evidence of Trump wrongdoing, and accept any excuse, how ever feeble or transparent, for the lies that Trump tells, and the things that he covers up and hides. Why do so many Americans turn pretzels of logic to make excuses for Trump's dishonesty and frauds? Is this some kind of collective Trump insanity? *What* is -wrong- with these people?!
10
@Jim Brokaw: They are not like us. They are not intelligent and reasoning, not thinking, and they are NOT NICE. Most people that like trump do for a few reasons: The very wealthy love the tax cuts. The other ones, don't understand that they are getting nothing from him, and will get even less, but because they are racists, misogynists, xenophobes, etc., or because they are just stupid and vindictive, and want to "stick it to the libs," they will cheer trump on, with his rants and raves, with his lies and deceit. And when they don't have health insurance, or the economy really tanks, when trump and the gop really, FINALLY, manage to gut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and all of our regulatory rules, too, and they are choking on the pollution, and dying from tainted water, these will be the people who will somehow, in all their "brilliance," manage to blame Obama and Hillary Clinton. So: They are far from intelligent, reasoning or thinking. In fact, they are just the opposite.
7
@Jim Brokaw - Not that great a mystery. He's squandered most of his (enormous) inheritance from his father and owes a lot of people a lot of money. Mostly Russian oligarchs if Don Jr.'s earlier claims about the source of the Trump Organization's funding are to be believed. He's not a billionaire, he's a fraud.
Personally, I don't know what he's so worried about. He could publish his tax returns tomorrow, showing years of losses, enormous debts, and a giant IOU to Putin himself and Fox News would still spin it as him being a brilliant business and his base would swallow it hook line and sinker. There is no bottom for these people.
14
If Trump has nothing to hide he should welcome the opportunity to be transparent with his taxes. It's really as simple as that.
720
@Zobar
Sadly, you are barking up the wrong tree. A very old one. You are presuming Trump has some sense of shame or guilt about what he has to hide. He has none. He has something to hide: he knows it, we know it, everybody knows it. What he's brazenly doing is asserting that he, as President, is simply above the law. He's the demagogic tyrant our founders feared, backed by a craven political party that's afraid of what they would have called "the mob." This is a Constitutional crisis and the Democratic party is afraid to impeach Trump on Constitutional grounds alone to bring the issue of balance of powers to a head.
122
"If Trump has nothing to hide he should ..."
Also: if he wants to avoid committing another crime.
15
Hahahahahaha.
5
Tax returns are produced routinely, in litigation, thousands of times a day, everyday, in America. Whether personal injury, tort, or otherwise, tax returns are often turned over. But, apparently the president gets super special consideration, even when under CRIMINAL investigation.
This is ridiculous. If the Supreme Court dares protect Trump's tax returns, people need to take to the streets. That will be all the evidence i need that the highest court in our land is a joke.
1078
@Marco Philoso
It'll establish a terrible precedent. Nobody under investigation will ever turn over their tax returns.
42
@Marco Philoso
Good point. And something else that happens routinely, in litigation, thousands of times a day, everyday in America is that witnesses provide testimony, under oath, during depositions. Yet, during the Mueller investigation, Trump was able to avoid appearing for questioning.
That, to me, was the single biggest disappointment with Mueller, that he did not push the issue and subpoena Trump for questioning.
50
True. In my divorce case, I had to turn over years of tax returns, and that was just a divorce.
28
The very fact that Trump is fighting so hard not to allow disclosure of his tax returns means that he has something, probably many somethings, to hide from public scrutiny. This is not the position of an innocent man.
15
@Green Flag
I'm sure that's exactly what you said about Hillary's 30k lost emails.
Print diverse comments. Humor is ok too. Civility could be humorous and intelligent.
1
This appeared instantly. What it is referring to is on ice. You got the humor part right it seems :-)
1
If the Constitution does not explicitly state that a sitting president cannot be investigated for crimes, does that mean all those strict constructionists the GOP has packed onto our district/appeals and Supreme courts will quickly and decisively rule against this Trump argument?
6
@Kathy McMorrow
Well, the argument would be that, strictly construed, the Constitution provides for the exercise of only one remedy for Presidential impropriety: impeachment.
1
If the Constitution does not explicitly state that a sitting president cannot be investigated for crimes, does that mean all those strict constructionists the GOP has packed onto our district/appeals and Supreme courts will quickly and decisively rule against this Trump argument?
1
So the president’s lawyers are arguing for blanket immunity from state prosecutors even investigating possible crimes. This would presumably include investigations into racketeering, money laundering, tax evasion, bank fraud, murder, etc? That’s preposterous.
This president is currently being investigated for possible abuse of power or constitutional violations in more than 2 dozen cases. I don’t think any federal court should set the bar so low as to exempt the president from a legitimate criminal investigation. NY prosecutors subpoenaed his tax records so apparently there was probable cause to believe a crime was committed. If not, the president’s lawyers would have argued the records subpoena was immaterial.
If a president is indicted, he can hire lawyers to defend him or resign. No one is indispensable in our form of government. The alternative of allowing a possible criminal to remain in office just because he is president is precisely what the founders wanted to avoid. They’d had enough of capricious and unaccountable kings.
12
Trump of all people is certainly not above the law. How can that even be in dispute.
Along with the national security crisis involving Trump now upon us, and the ongoing impeachment inquiry by the House, let’s get this critical financial information on con-man Trump as quickly as possible—
So that he can be summarily dealt with in the name of the people of the United States.
9
If the argument by President Trump's lawyers is accepted, the US will have to accept that it is not a republic but an elective monarchy and I suspect strongly that is not what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they drew up the Constitution.
20
And if Hillary had been elected President (which she was by the popular vote in 2016) and she had refused to turn over her tax returns even after a subpoena, and her lawyers maintained a sitting president cannot be prosecuted, what do you think the Republicans and their lawyers would not only be saying but doing to get those tax returns turned over to the state requesting them?
What is good for the goose is good for the gander, and this is the only way justice can work.
16
This is what Trump meant when he said we'd get tired of all the winning. Make no mistake, at the moment, the Far Right is winning. Big.
24
Where is that proposed or assumed immunity specifically spelled out in the Constitution?
More to the point, if a president can’t be investigated for possible criminal misconduct then why were impeachment/removal from office powers created and vested in the national legislature?
34
@Steve Singer
It's right there in the "penumbras," along with the right to abortion. :)
@Steve Singer
Trump's working on it with his Sharpie
Unfortunate that we discussing that the President of the United States cannot be criminally investigated. I’d prefer hearing, “hey, the President is doing amazing things for the US and world such as X, Y, and Z”. Sadly, that won’t happen.
What will happen - investigation, stonewalling, diversion, and smoke blowing.
But, maybe Trump will cut a GREAT DEAL - to avoid imprisonment.
Great moral leadership.
6
Trump is being paid with public money, and Trump is spending public money!
The American people have a right to know how their money is being spent by the president and any government officials/agencies!
15
@All American Joe
Trump is spending public money to defend himself from prosecution for his ongoing public crimes.
1
1. If the writers of the constitution wanted to place the president above the law they would have been clear on this in their writings. 2. being immune from prosecution (indictment) and being immune from investigation are two entirely different things.
70
No way they were foolish enough to grant the same office power of the pardon and immunity from law.
1
Actually I really don’t care what those slave owning oligarchs write a few centuries ago. You might as well use the Bible or the Quran as a constitution!
What Trump is doing is plainly wrong and should be easily determined by any constitution worth the paper it is written on. He should have been never elected let alone ruin/rule the nation for another 2.5 years.
Lots of people throw at you the constitution and the flawed founding fathers whenever they cannot answer a straight question like “why don’t we require the President to post his tax returns from the first time he filed them?”
It us like parents who when asked a tough question by an intelligent child and don’t know the answer say “because it is like that.” Well we don’t have to take the answer “because the constitution says so.” My daughters didn’t. They ended up going to Harvard and Yale!
4
@MW - one additional thought...the way the suit by Trump is described it would appear to shield his business from investigation/prosecution...so Don Jr. and Eric can go wild!? who wants that?
2
Regardless of legal strategy, let’s examine this from a Founder’s point of view. The Founder’s never set out to codify a framework in which the executive was above the law and all recourse. Our great nation-state exists in no small part because our peoples determined rejecting such monarchal fiat notions were essential to our life, our liberty, and our pursuit of happiness.
In uncertain times we should remember that. No one is above the law.
35
Trump's lawyers? Okay. Who are they? trump is also a citizen of the U.S., so yes, he can be investigated.
18
I thought more “chased down Pennsylvania by a pack of slavering mastiffs,” which one must admit isn’t barred by the Second Amendment.
1
It's totally inconceivable to me that the founding fathers meant that the president was completely beyond the reach of the law.
44
@ASD
He's not beyond the reach of the law. Once he leaves office, he may be charged and prosecuted. Norway has the same rules.
3
@Viv So if a president commits murder (as Trump has said he could do in the streets of NY by shooting someone, and get away with it), then he's immune from prosecution while he is in office, because he's the president? A little sense here, please.
I don't know about Norway's rules (by the way, are those "rules" or "laws" - there's a difference), but the precedent of not prosecuting a sitting president seems more to be something along the lines of a forceful tradition and policy from Justice department memos - a tradition that could be changed for something truly egregious, like murder, or perhaps treason - by updated memos and policies. Federal precedent and Justice Dept. Memos are not the same as unconstitutional, we should be clear about that.
8
@Viv - we do not have those rules - what we have is a president whose legal team is making an argument that this should be the case but to date these limits are not written anywhere.
11
OK have the city or state investigate him and his organization for civil fraud or civil tax liability Which seeks as a remedy, money not incarceration. And certainly the corporation and the charity has no such immunity
9
Of the 300 plus citizens there are in our nation, the one that should embody the law, should stand up and fight for the law, should do everything in his power to support the law it is the President. The rest of us should also, but the President is tasked with enforcing the law so that individual should be as blameless as humanly possible and should be able to prove his innocence and total compliance with the law. Instead, we have a criminal president who is intent on acting above the law. A president who insists that no matter what he does, he cannot be indicted while in office. And what exactly are We The People going to do about this? Just because Trump and/or his minions say something, that doesn't make it true. In fact, in this administration, pretty much nothing that they say is actual truth.
21
@lynchburglady. Superb.
2
@lynchburglady
Trump is very close to having made himself a king with NO shackles. The horrible lesson is that a democracy can flip to a dictatorship in less time than a a climate can change from benign to lethal--and so far as governance goes, this was a bloodless transition made possible by using corrupted courts. Who could ever have nightmared that this frightening event could happen. Will we be like 1930s Germany and persuade ourselves to feel good about sucking up to a dangerous and heartless regime?
2
Trump is exposing the fault lines in our Republic. He knows that prosecutors will not be able to do their jobs in the face of overwhelming political pressure to move on after he leaves office.
Trump is and will always be free from accountability. Because of his legacy, millions of people will lose faith in our system of justice.
13
@Worried but hopeful Many have lost that faith when McConnell blocked Obama from appointing justices and allowed Trump to stack the courts.
16
@Worried but hopeful
Anybody who hasn't figured out yet that it's better to be rich & guilty than poor & innocent in America has been sleep-walking through life. Trump is the ultimate poster boy for the guardians of white privilege.
1
@Worried but hopeful - millions of people losing faith in our system is a feature, not a bug, as far as republicans are concerned...
1
What does it mean Trump cannot be criminally investigated? Mueller just spent millions of dollars doing that months ago, no?
22
"Federal prosecutors are barred from charging a sitting president with a federal crime, because the Justice Department — in memos written during the Nixon and Clinton administrations — has interpreted the Constitution to implicitly grant presidents temporary immunity while they are in office. "
. . . . .
If the Supreme Court can reverse long standing precedent...the actual law of the land, the Justice Dept. can certainly also reverse its stilted interpretation of presidential immunity.
13
Its demanded of every citizen to disclose their income and sources for dozens of mundane processes in order to simply exist in the world and get things done.
A president is not above those rules. Period.
A good faith President would not be so evasive. Anyone with nothing to hide - in their own words - would certainly not be so evasive. Certainly not so forcefully evasive. Certainly not be making up protections, that do not exist in the US Constitution.
I've heard Trump use the term Coup many times. Aiming it at others, the alleged and fake "deep state", the FBI, etc.
The Coup is going on by the WH. With help of the AG. By any of the Trump sycophants around him.
33
@Boregard.
And guess who will be Trump’s next Supreme Court nominee? William Barr. And then the coup will be complete.
2
According to Trump's position, he could commit a murder, in the rose garden, and then answer questions by the press before retiring to his quarters.
Justice would have to wait for several years , while he conducts his presidential duties unabated.
23
Unless you can convince 67 senators that he was not acting in self-defense AND they would be safe during their next election campaign.
2
@King Philip, His majesty -- murder, maybe not, because there's no statute of limitations. Just about anything else, as long as a prez commits the crimes early in a first term, legally he'd be completely immune.
According to trump and his minions, there is no check or balance on the Executive Branch.
1
@King Philip, His majesty "Several years"? In Trump's mind and warped world, that's "several decades" or "many decades" or, actually, "never ever." Justice will never be rendered. He'll die first. No funny line there at all.
Lends some fresh credence to the thought circulated by some that Don will never leave the White House. Ever. He sure as heck will not face consequences. Ever. He'll declare himself dictator for life, refuse to leave and figure he will be backed up by his boot-licking aides in the WH and the cult member base across the country.
1
Quote from the article: The president “cannot be subject to criminal process, for conduct of any kind, while he is serving as president,” the lawyers wrote in the complaint, filed in Manhattan federal court.
Then again Trump will not be in office forever, though we may have to wait until January 2025 for him to leave. So if in fact these lawyers are correct, I imagine that Trump can be investigated, indicted, and perhaps imprisoned after his ill-fated presidency is finished.
4
@Ron
Any prosecutor who wanted to try Trump after he left office would immediately find him or herself under tremendous political pressure to move on. No prosecutor could function under those conditions. Trump is creating a permanent get-of-jail card for past actions of the POTUS. Our Republic will never be the same.
7
The “for conduct of any kind,” bit is completely absurd. The point of that provision is to protect the Executive from relatively-unimportant criminal proceeedings so they can do their job, not endow the President with the ability to take a rifle and start shooting at passersby on Pennsylvania Avenue for fun every Thursday.
Oh, and nothing says there can be no investigations at all.
1
@Ron
Let's hope it's January 2021 --- But look for all sorts of threats and insults over the next year, followed by war next September ... Not sooner, as his idiocy will quickly be apparent --- Close to the election so all the bravura and flag waving and phony machismo will be in full display, masking the horror.
1
In order to be eligible for Medicaid in a nursing home, folks have to show 5 years of tax returns, bank statements, even funding arrangements for funeral and cemetry services. The fact that Trump refuses to give his own government less data than is required by our grandparents for elder care is preposterous.
82
Given that the Supreme Court along with Republican Party are Trump’s enablers, they will make up any constitutional interpretation they see as beneficial to their mob boss.
25
Whether or not he can be indicted, what possible reason could there be for preventing him from being investigated. Note that the Supreme Court unanimously rejected the idea that a president (Clinton) couldn't be sued by a private party, even though Clinton claimed it would be distract him from the duties of his office. Note that, while the constitution explictly prevent members of congress from being served with legal process during the session, there's no such provision for the president.
10
Apparently the lawyers think that, when Trump said he could shoot a random person on Fifth Avenue without consequences, he was not wrong - merely premature.
18
Trump's lawyers are simply coming up with their variation of Nixon's famous, "If the President does it, it's not illegal." We already know that argument doesn't fly. That Trump's lawyers make it at all is a sign of their desperation.
No American citizen is above the law according to our Constitution, and that includes Trump.
48
If any court believes that the president cannot be prosecuted or investigated while in office then they will have been complicit in the conversion of the USA to an elected dictatorship. It's beyond chutzpah to even argue the case as presented. Trump's game plan is to run out the clock on his life or the courts finally rendering an opinion years and years from now. It's just a another tv show to them while the rest of us peons are righteously indignant. It's all preposterous. Meanwhile the McConnels et al get to change the tax laws etc for their liking. Do we get an undo and redo of all the damage they've done?
14
Given the public relations fiasco that has accompanied the stonewalling (that Mexico will pay for!) on releasing the tax returns, it is not unreasonable to conclude that the information being withheld is far more damaging than the fight.
22
This is why we have courts. A president being criminally investigated ... say in order to establish grounds for impeachment ... seems far different to me than prosecuting a crime when warranted after investigation to justify this. Given normal circumstances ... which we clearly do not have with the likes of Trump ... one may be able to understand giving a president legal leeway while in office so as to avoid unwarranted political attacks and distraction from governing. And yet, no one is above the law. In the case of a sitting president who is indicted, ie, impeached, and actually convicted, the law waits for that person, it would seem, to settle matters. The question might become, How great would the misdeed would have to be for deferring prosecution of a sitting president?
5
So the President’s argument is obviously too broad, but not by much.
We cannot have a future where State’s Attorneys of the opposite political stripe keep the president locked in court.
1
@Mark Shank There wasn't much opposition about days long depositions from Bill Clinton. So, why should Trump get a pass? After all, most of what he does is golf and hold Nuremberg rallies and tweet. It's not like he would be kept from important business of the nation.
1
I wonder if you would argue that Bill Clinton or Obama should also be above the law.
We have a president who routinely and openly spits in the face of the rule of law and cares nothing about following the Constitution. You seem to be fine with there being zero recourse for this. Which is both troubling and flies in the face of everything I was taught this no longer great and weakening nation stands for.
1
@Mark Shank They're seeking documents Trump promised the electorate he would release, from his accountants. Shouldn't keep him off the links too long
1
What the Trump attorney's refuse to acknowledge is that the tax returns might contain evidence relevant to an impeachment proceeding - and thus they cannot be off limits.
22
so he literally could murder someone and not face consequences?
15
@Nate
It would seem so. He is already stretching the limits of other precedents. I'd say that the Constitution of the USA is in desperate need of some amendments. We won't know until the Trump era is over just how deep the damage will go. He could even declare himself President for life with help from his powerful Republican admirers. Meanwhile he keeps reaching for the bottom.
5
@Gersh I think he has just about reached the bottom. Until, well....maybe he will start a war to protect Jared's investments in Saudi Arabia, or to change the subject of his actions bordering on treason.
1
Pretty much.
That is why we need to change the constitution. It is dismally (and potentially fatally) flowed.
1
This is self-perpetuating nonsense. Trump can commit any crime (say, to stay in office) and can not even be investigated for his actions? This beggars comprehension.
19
@KEF
As does everything else about the current Presidency.
2
What's happening to the same request from the Southern District of New York?
Trump is just doing his normal thing. Sue, sue, sue. He cares nothing for the people of this country. A crooked conman posing as president. How low the Republican Party has sunk in the past few years. On November 2020, vote out every Republican in the Senate and Congress. Nothing but synchophants following the money without enough courage to dump Trump. Sad!
27
@David Michael. Yes, yes, vote every single one of them out of office. They have a major part in destroying our democracy and turning it over to a dictator.
2
There must be someone else working for Trump now since he knows nothing and shows no respect to our Constitution.
4
Coverup. Coverup. Coverup. It's often worse than the crime, but maybe not, in this case. Either way, the underlying data needs to see the light of day in order for the public to know whether there is any "there" there. Anyone considering voting for Trump in 2020 needs to ask themselves what he's hiding, and what his behavior in this drama says about his character. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
10
Unbelievable.
This administration is a criminal enterprise.
And possibly worse. Trump may be a traitor.
What's in his tax returns that necessitates this level of subterfuge?
Will the tax returns show Trump took investment money or payoffs from Russia or the Saudis?
We can't learn this fast enough.
24
The problem is half of the country are people who cannot think and most likely will never do so.
Short of creating a Red and a Blue USA there is no solution visible to me.
Whenever I travel to a red state the difference between what they are about and what we are about in the ai-called blue states is beyond night and day. At leas there there is light even at night!
3
@fast/furious. Trump is a traitor.
4
If you have nothing to hide, why are you so afraid of releasing your tax returns, Mr. "President"?
22
Wait. So he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not be arrested that day?
12
Thank you, Mrs. Clinton. Your lousy campaign brought us this monstrosity. We are the poorer for the DNC kowtowing to you last time around, naming you inevitable yet your history, your lack of focus, your unlikability made you unelectable. And against a man whose record reads like a mob boss.
Democrats need to get this cheating, lying, litigating president out the door no matter what his tax returns say. Let's focus on every possible way to vote him out and find out his tax status when the time is right, when he's holed up at Mar-A-Lago with his unpaid lawyers and his unpaid loans.
6
@Honey But, at least he paid the exotic dancers. There's that...
1
@Honey
I love how you're blaming Hillary for the blame-Hillary propaganda that discouraged people who should have known better from besmirching their hands by voting for someone who got 3,000,000 more primary voters than her colorful opponent.
@Honey
Don't blame Mrs. Clinton. There are plenty of more appropriate people to blame. Blame the people who didn't vote, blame the Republican voters, blame voters for third parties, blame the electoral college, blame whatever foreign interferences there were, blame the Republicans in Congress, and blame Trump himself!
1
Why don't we just dispense with laws altogether, and put a crown on his head already? It seems we have ourselves a king.
11
@Carrie Scary thought. But, at times I believe that is what many would like-Emperor Donald.
They should be careful of what they wish for.
1
If the nation's chief executive is constitutionally protected from investigation entirely and solely because of the office he holds, there's something badly wrong with the Constitution. It means that any scoundrel can aspire to run for the office simply for the immunity it provides. The bigger a crook you are, the greater the incentive, and it's built into the Constitution.
16:15 EDT, 9/19
11
No such principle is anywhere in the Constitution.
1
It's the same withe their stance on obstruction. How can there be an obstruction charge if a successful obstruction leads to no evidence of a crime committed.
Totally normal move for a man who has nothing to hide. Nothing to see here!
4
Trump suing? Put this down as the most predictable headline of the week.
6
Wow, so if a sitting President is luring children into the Oval Office, raping them, killing them, then throwing the bodies out into the Rose Garden prosecutors can take no action until he leaves office? I think not...the test is potential political motivation of the prosecutor.
13
Why not? The White House is not our house. It's a lair where Kingpin Trump does his business deals, pays off hookers, lies all day and night and cheats and steals from Americans who actually pay taxes. You are not permitted to look inside, to question or even speak about what goes on there. This is harassment, traitors.
Shouldn't this line of reasoning apply to school board members, mayors, sheriffs, county constables, state and federal representatives? Do they not also need protection "harassment" of official police investigations? Let criminality ring across the land. Let the privileged few rule over us. That is what Trump has always meant by MAGA.
10
@DeepThud
trumps new hats should read, MAVA, Make America Venezuela Already. trump's level of corruption is now rivaling Maduro's Venezuela, and the United States will suffer similar consequences if this tyrannical dictator is allowed to stay in the White House.
1
So Trump really could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue with no consequence until he leaves office?
4
That is a ludicrous argument. I can understand, though I don't agree with, the argument that a president can't be criminally prosecuted while in office. But - investigated? Ridiculous, and that assertion reeks of desperation.
8
Who still supports this guy? Seriously.
15
@reader
Unfortunately enough voters support him to reelect him in 2020 unless we get out the vote to defeat him.
1
To any Trump supporter reading these comments...
If this were Barack Obama stonewalling release of his tax returns, how would you react?
A slight edit to an earlier comment... "what's happened to OUR country?"
10
Keep doing this...cover Trump’s desk with lawsuits of all sorts. If that’s called harassment, so be it. Harass this creature from office.
9
Its really a very stupid legal argument. He can be investigated for things that he'll be charged with after he leaves office. By definition, nobody's in office for more than eight years- unless Trump plans otherwise. He can be investigated like anyone else. So long as he's president, he's got his special little get out of jail free card. It isn't for life.
2
Pardon me, but doesn't the law apply to the "president" as well as the little people? He is not a King.
10
That’s nonsense. So he can murder, and not be held accountable for 8, years because he’s president???!
7
Trump, in his business, has always used his lawyers not to ensure laws are obeyed, but rather to use his lawyers to find loopholes and skirt the law.
Now William Cohn-Barr is serving this role.
Quelle surprise.
9
Criminal AG William Barr has managed to shut down all federal investigations into 'King' Trump, but he holds no sway in the state of New York. BTW Criminal Barr - how's that investigation into Jeffrey Epstein's suicide coming along?
7
Nixon redux
6
What's he got to hide?
4
@Dan B The laundry machine that cleans his benefactor's money?
1
But her emails!!
5
The circus goes own. All what the leftist can think about is how to irritate and smear the president. In spite, he will be our president for the nexT five years.GOD BLESS AMERICA
1
@lieberma Hmm. When Barak Obama was president how much smearing of him did you do?
Come on, be honest.
And, if he is shown the door next year then God did bless America.
1
If Trump loses in 2020 and actually agrees to vacate the White House once the new president is sworn in, the new president should shoot him as he's leaving. "The President is above the law, you know." :D
3
Shouldn't it be 'the President's 'illegal' team?
6
"Cannot be Criminally Investigated" This must be a dream job for the NYC grifter known as Trump.
7
So basically any president can commit crimes all day long while in office and won't be punished until he leaves office. How's that supposed to work?
4
America's most "significant constitutional issues" are an Impostor-In-Chief and a Russian-Republican Senate that supports monarchy.
Let's see the tax returns of the nation's leading scofflaw.
11
Then why have laws??? I mean....
5
"What's he hiding?"
4
Deny, Delay, Defame!
Then settle.
DJT
3
Re: "...The president’s legal team is trying to block a subpoena seeking his tax returns, claiming that any criminal investigation of Mr. Trump is unconstitutional..."
By definition...
ALL Americans CAN be criminally, investigated, assuming law enforcement can find / establish that there is 'probable, cause' to a judge!
I submit that the word 'overdose' properly metaphorizes the 'Probable_Cause' issue, where the usurper, Lord Trumpkins, is concerned!
Thus...
If the President's ever, more bizarre, ('serially' alleged, L.O.L.!) criminality / legal team's excuse making is, in reality, a disguised claim that Lord Trumpkins is NOT an American, or, perhaps...NOT even a member of the hominid species...
and, thereby, he ISN'T covered by the laws Americans take for granted...I MIGHT be inclined to agree!
(/Sarcasm)
3
This guy is hiding alot... bigly. In a closet of covfeve. America doesn't have much more time for Don The Con. Consider the billions of hours of brain drain this 'great experiment' of a nation has endured, suffering through this day-after-day dumpster fire of a Presidency. "Locked and loaded"? Pray for peace.
7
So if the president were to "...stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody" today, using his lawyers' arguments, he could not be arrested.
4
The DOJ are co-conspirators.
4
“Lawyers for Charles Manson insist that he is immune from prosecution”
“Lawyers for Whitey Bulger insist that he is immune from prosecution.”
“Lawyers for Dennis Hastert insist that he is immune from prosecution.”
Wow this is fun
“Lawyers for...”
4
The piece of garbage won’t always be president and then we’ll give him what he deserves!
4
Well look at the bright side. If Trump's layers prevail and our "president" is deemed to be beyond the reach of the judicial process, then surely the statute of limitations will be "tolled" and cease to run. Tolling where the would be target is beyond the prosecutor's jurisdiction and jurisdictional reach is black letter law. So even if Vlad gets Trump re-elected he will ultimately be subject to both state and federal actions.
4
If I understand the President's argument, no President can ever be the subject of an investigation at any time during his/her Presidency for any conduct that may have happened at any time before or during the term of their Presidency.
Um, wasn't it the GOP's position that anything that a President was subject to investigation for acts and conduct he/she conducted or performed prior to inauguration was the legitimate? No one may be able to prosecute the President while in office, but investigations were allowable.
But, apparently this was OK when the GOP investigates a Democrat, but not when a Democratic Congress even considers investigating a Republican President.
Shades of Nixon's "Imperial Presidency" ...
11
The whole point of representative democracy, as opposed to and developed in reaction to a monarchy, is that all members of government are subject to the same laws as citizens. The whole point of our system of government is that citizens can take part, can vote, can run for office, can be elected. Citizens have equal rights, there is no Animal Farm scenario in US government where some citizens are more equal than others.
The original DOJ memos suggesting that a sitting President can't be indicted were created out of whole cloth; there is literally nothing in the Constitution that exempts a President from prosecution. The Impeachment clause gives Congress the right to remove officials, but no where does it say or even imply that a President cannot be indicted.
If this position of the DOJ and Trump's lawyers is allowed to stand and become precedent, our government is taking a further step away from the founders' intentions and towards dictatorship.
12
@Wayne Cunningham.
Agreed.
What is missing from these articles and discussions is that there is a very distinct difference between "investigation" and "prosecution."
"Investigation" is well within the proper and legal purview of NY State when there is cause to believe illegal activity has occurred by a resident. Trump's legal residence is NYC; there are affidavits from multiple sources that Mr. Trump may have or actually did commit acts that are criminal or violations of NY civil statutes.
[Classifying reimbursements to Cohen for payoffs to Stormy Daniels and others as "retainer payments" when Trump knew or should have known their true nature is a valid grounds for investigation, let alone some of the other publicly reported actions by the current President.]
To all the naysayers that claim this is a political hatchet job, I have to ask: Isn't the current inquiries into Trump's pre-election activities for possible criminal behavior just as legitimate subject matter as President Clinton's pre-election allegations of sexual misconduct? Or, are you prepared to admit that the entire 8=year "crisis of the week" family of investigations by a GOP Congress were all "just theatrical politics"?
2
Like Netanyahu, Donald Trump faces criminal investigations, charges, and possibly jail time once out of office. It is difficult to understand how they continue to hold office and it will be a painful awakening for their supporters.
5
There are no constitutional issues here. First of all the Justice Department is not the Supreme Court and their letters declaring the president off limits from prosecution does not have the force of law. It is only the opinion of a few lawyers who have made efforts to shield the president starting with Nixon.
Secondly this is a state matter that involves Trump while a private citizen. The President is a representative of the people and is pledged to protect the rule of law and must be held accountable when he breaks his oath.
Is any person above the law? Setting a precedent like this makes a mockery of justice and gives the lie to the rulings under which all of us stand.
26
Is the Trump Organization an incorporated entity? Since the Supreme Court ruled that corporations are "persons," can't the Trump corporation be criminally investigated, indicted, and charged, even if the President himself cannot?
30
So, if I may take the argument of his lawyers to the extreme...The President of the United States could commit a violent crime (also a felony), say, like, hypothetically, shooting someone on Fifth Avenue, and until he leaves office, his involvement in that crime could not even be investigated? What are the victims supposed to do, meantime? Hide in fear?
The lawyers argument makes no sense on any level except a Trumpian one.
53
@ Genevieve
This is a dystopian nightmare we are living through. I pray we can hold the democracy together until January 2021.
3
Nixon was not above the law, and neither is Trump. His day of reckoning is coming.
43
@JS
Trump's day of reckoning will come when Putin says so. Ask any Republican.
1
When in doubt, fall back on the law:
Clinton v. Jones, 520 U.S. 681 (1997), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case establishing that a sitting President of the United States has no immunity from civil law litigation, in federal court, against him or her, for acts done before taking office and unrelated to the office.
I'm not a lawyer, but even I know that.
51
@Thoughtful Woman
Yes, but we aren't talking about civil matters. The article is about a criminal investigation.
2
@Thoughtful Woman
Civil =/= criminal.
We're talking about criminal here.
2
Trump’s lawyers are essentially saying that the president is above the law, not more not less.
So, they have still to explain why the Constitution says differently.
15
@ArmandoI
no...they're saying THIS president is above the law. If this was, say, for example, Bill Clinton, the president would not be above the law.
2
It's hard to imagine the pending lawsuits brought to obtain the President's tax returns will all fail. The lawyers who are first to obtain the documents will become celebrities. The race is on. Let's keep the fight fair and may the best people win.
15
We are in a constitutional crisis, thanks to Mitch McConnell and Trump. This is delay tactics by Trump.
53
@Ari
An Article in a Texas newspaper denoted Mitch McConnell receiving $6 Million from Russian donors, close to Putin.
I don't think the clean-out will be finished even after Trump is out of office.
We need to have a way to watch and see how much money, or promised money, any person in government received from other sources outside our country, or sources hired by such sources, even for the rest of their lives.
This is not too much to ask, for those men and women who are supposed to represent us in the direction of this country each year.
Putin is planning on our not going to this much trouble.
7
Why are representatives in congress telling us nobody is above the law? Not even the president? No, they say. Not even the president.
So what’s all this business about a Constitutional issue about a prohibition against investigating trump.
Is he above the law? Did leaders of the justice department swear an oath to uphold the constitution?
Are they failing to adhere to their oaths? Is this a Constitutional democracy?
Let’s have the answers! Now!
52
POTUS cannot be criminally investigated?! Why? Because an Attorney General wrote his opinion on the subject? How foolish. Does anyone think that the framers of our constitution intended to allow a murderer or a drug dealer or a crook, or in this case, an imbecile grifter, to remain in office and run the country? This is outlandish. And so begins the foundation for authoritarianism to take over our federal government. Every Senator that allows this to happen is choosing to join with a dictatorship that is already seizing this country.
9
Should this issue come SCOTUS justices Kavanaugh and Gorsuch should temper their zeal to carry water for Trump with a sober evaluation of what their ruling could mean for future presidents of the United States, and how it could wreak havoc on our entire political system.
But they won't because they are beholden to Trump's cult of personality, and utterly incapable of thinking about anything besides winning in 2020 for Trump, by any means necessary.
27
sS if anyone with a functional brain thinks that Trump or his lawyers know anything about the law or the US Constitution. They have demonstrated time and again that they are completely ignorant of both.
32
@DSS That is the liberal left, knee-jerk dismissal of one’s opponents as dummies and chronic underestimation that has turned the State and local political map into a sea of Red States over the last 10 years. And was one of the primary reasons Clinton lost the 2016 election: she outspent him 2/1 but he showed up in every battleground state right up to the end. Trump outplayed her in the Electoral College, and has had the DEM Party chasing their own tails ever since by stretching every thing to the breaking point, then dropping it. He has Rope-a-Doped the DEMs into thinking that that they should pursue him in the courts - where he has the upper hand (and lots of time and taxpayers money to waste) - instead of impeaching him in the House where they are the dealers and can control the time, substance and debate.
This has all the same earmarks of the fools errand that was staking any hopes on the Mueller Report to a DOJ that’s run by a Trumpster. Trump is most certainly a certifiable psychopath - but he is anything but stupid.
Trump has something really big that he must hide. Transparency is not in his or his sycophant's vocab.
54
So, I guess these simpletons don't understand why Trump's sister resigned from the bench?
46
The only thing we should be focusing on is turnout out for the 2020 elections. When Black folks turnout Democrats win. We must get rid of this guy.
26
@Paul
If the black folks are electors...otherwise he’ll just lose the popular vote again and still be re-elected
@Paul We can’t afford to put all our hope in the next election when it has been shown that there was foreign interference in the last presidential election. There is no guarantee that the next election will be free and fair and represent the will of the people, and for that matter even if a Democrat beats Trump the Republicans could turn this around and declare the result illegitimate. Trump has broken many laws and he must be held accountable and even if the Senate isn’t willing to cooperate the Democrats have to be on the record as doing their Constitutional duty of providing a check on the presidency. If not we’re allowing the Republicans to stage a bloodless coup d’etat. Trump has already talked about ignoring the results of the election and he has not only the motivation to do so (the moment he leaves office he’s likely to be prosecuted) he has the support of people who could enable his doing so. We have to at least test if the rule of law still exists because if we find out before the election that the Republicans can do anything with impunity then instead of worrying about the election we have to start studying history to learn what citizens do when their government has been taken over by fascists.
5
Paul, let’s not forget that trump and his father were censured and fined for their systemic refusal to rent apartments to blacks, among other criminal acts (tax evasion, etc.). We ALL must get out and vote next year!!
3
Anyone patriotic enough to follow in the footsteps of Mark Felt - the Watergate leeker - within the IRS or FBI to place Trump's returns in the hands of someone at The Washington Post or The New York Times?
33
@kkm From your mouth to God's ears. This would be the best solution to the stonewalling grifter's antics.
2
@sonya - if those returns are still on file at the IRS! Remember the 22 missing minutes on the Nixon tapes.
1
Quote: "...Lawyers for President Trump argued in a lawsuit filed on Thursday that he cannot be criminally investigated while in office, as they sought to block a subpoena from state prosecutors in Manhattan demanding eight years of his tax returns..."
Don't you just love the 'law, 'N, order-observant' moral examples collectively, known as 'Republicans'??
{/Sarcasm!}
19
R.G., yeah, don’t we all just love lawyers? Remember, they charge by the hour, just like hookers, so whatever stalling, filing frivolous motions, issuing subpoenas, etc etc etc they can do, it doesn’t matter whether these things are merited, they still get paid for their time. So they’ll drag this all out as long as they possibly can, just so they can pad their bills. Whether trump pays them or not, that’s another story altogether....
1
Lie, Cheat and Obfuscate should be the motto engraved on the Presidential Seal for this clown.
44
Wait, What?
Wow.
14
Ha ha ha! Can't touch me!
The Electoral College elected me President...
I own the Justice Department, the FBI, the Senate, and the Supreme and other Federal Courts...
I have my own "news"...
35,000,000 Americans vastly prefer my nonsense to any truth or fact...
Who am I?
25
Nothing to see here folks. Just put your heads back in the sand and this shall pass.
8
God Save The King.
9
This is just one more example of the dangers of an incompetent president with who uses lawsuits to subvert justice. #WorstPresidentEver #CriminalinChief #LockHimUp
21
This kind of legal stonewalling has been Donald Trump's modus operandi for his entire life. Roy Cohn taught him decades ago how to weaponize the legal system. He realizes that he has absolutely nothing to lose by resisting any and all requests for tax returns and/or subpoenas from Congressional committees.
Is this man not the luckiest person on the planet? Seriously, he has never ever had to pay a price for anything that would have sent anyone else to prison. Six bankruptcies, a $413 million dollar line of credit from his Dad; he is a racist, a bigot, and a scoundrel.
He sleeps with whomever he wants, lies as easily as he breathes, is incurious as all get-out, avoided the draft easily with a doctor's note to the draft board. When is this going to stop?
This anxiety attack I am experiencing gets worse with each passing day that this man is in the Oval Office. Come on DNC, get your act together and put an end to this national nightmare.
70
@Len I know. I have literally been ill and getting sicker since he was elected. Reflux, stress. I went to my doctor in Jan.2017 and said I thought it was because of Trump. He said I have a lot of patients like you. Just wanted you to know you are not alone. This too shall pass. Hang in there and do what you can.
6
@Sandra
Thanks for the back up Sandra! It is comforting to know there are millions of us out here hanging on by our fingernails. I just do not understand why people still are taken in by him.
Because unemployment is low? Yikes. Too heavy a price to pay for him destroying our institutions and cozying up to our enemies. Way too big a price. Thanks again for reaching out.
7
Immune from all criminal inquiries until he leaves the White House!? The man is president, not czar or dictator or Dear Leader. In the United States, no one is above the law.
35
So Trump denies having an affair with Stormy Daniels. Does he just hand out checks to porn stars as an act of charity?
19
@DR oh, you made me laugh!
2
I’m so darn sick and tired of having to spend hard earned tax payer dollars to litigate for Trump. He is a crook and liar. Take him off the ballot or show the returns. Enough already
20
To summarize, trump is a stupid guy whose daddy bailed him out of his business failures, and his attorneys and accountants did all the work and thinking. He has spent his life hiding behind daddy and his attorneys.
He is a coward. He is not, nor was he ever, a successful businessman. Intellectually, he couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag.
27
...Spiro who...?
7
After the Lewandowski spectacle...all I can say is that if this is MAGA...I'll eat my Mueller Report !! What a complete waste of taxpayer dollars this Dysfunctional Chaotic Administration has been !! Trump support is simply UnAmerican! What a Loser !!
21
"The president’s lawyer said a subpoena seeking Mr. Trump’s personal and corporate tax records raised 'significant constitutional issues.'"
Unfortunately, the appropriate word for this is unprintable.
15
Where in the Constitution does it say that a president cannot be investigated for criminal offenses? It says in that document that a president cannot be removed from office except by impeachment by the House and a vote by the Senate. But the Constitution is entirely moot on the subject of criminal prosecution of a president.
The defense relies on a DOJ policy, not any legal precedent.
As far as I'm concerned, the notion of legal immunity by virtue of holding the office of the presidency has a monarchical ring to it. Yes, in Britain all laws and criminal proceedings find their authority in the person of the monarch. Not so in the US. Our legal authority lies in the Constitution and laws.
22
Our interpretations of the Constitution fall short of the liberal ideals the Framers championed in answer to the tyranny of King George. Every law-maker should be of the People, elected by the People, and subject to the Rule of Law. That we have allowed these principles to be overrun by the misdeeds of men like Nixon, Clinton, and Trump is a tragedy. Such is the destiny of laws written with good intentions but too broadly. The Framers even lacked the foresight to establish exceptions to the President's power to pardon. All they had to do was include "except either in cases of impeachment, cases regarding charges against their self, or cases where a majority of Senate agrees an inappropriate conflict of interests exists," but now, to prevent a president from abusing this power in order to render their cronies and self unaccountable to the rule of law, it would require an amendment process that is not likely to even be initiated.
5
So to be clear, they are saying that a president cannot be investigated for a criminal action while in office. While in office a president can also claim executive privilege and not be put under any control by congress. So basically, if I understand the present state of the US political system, a president can basically do whatever they want while in office and is now subject to no controls?
84
@Michael Unfortunately, that's precisely what's being asserted by the President's legal team. The SCOTUS will likely be the ultimate arbiter of the validity of this assertion, and I'm certain that they will find in favor of the executive.
The sole remedy is for the Congress to pass legislation more precisely circumscribing executive authority. Unfortuantely, there are huge political and structural barriers that will prevent this.
The GOP controls the Senate, so any such legislation will not make it out of Congress; even if the GOP was not (as may be the case after 2020), any such legislation would be filibustered.
In the unlikely event such legislation actually makes it through Congress, the SCOTUS would have the last word. The Supreme Court is thoroughly under the control of extreme conservatives who are likely to determined that such legislation is not sanctioned by the Constitution.
So Michael, you are unfortunately correct. Once the President of the US clears this one last legal hurdle, the Chief Executive will have virtually unlimited power, subject to essentially no control.
11
@Michael
It sure looks that way from the peanut gallery. And if you elect a crime boss with a colorful personality you sure get your money's worth of flagrant, unprecedentally unlawful behavior.
8
@Michael
Can Trudeau be criminally investigated by the RCMP? Obviously not, as he forbid anyone from talking to the RCMP about the SNC-Lavalin matter.
So not only is there no Canadian Mueller and no Canadian Mueller report. There is no Canadian Senate inquiry or Canadian Parliamentary inquiry.
"... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ... whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
This situation is covered by the Declaration of Independence (above), a foundational document of the US nation. Trump's lawyers -- indeed, the occupant of the Oval Office himself -- should give it a read.
16
@Stevem
"...alter or to abolish it..."
Yes, but...how to do it exactly? Historically this has involved lots and lots of guns.
1
@Jeff The Constitution sets out a process and gives Congress the power to carry it out. The Declaration states that "the People," "the governed," have a natural right to do so.
2
"...state and local prosecutors were particularly susceptible to opening investigations to advance their careers at the expense of the federal government."
“A county prosecutor in New York, for what appears to be the first time in our nation’s history, is attempting to do just that."
Does it make sense that a local prosecutor could be the first in our nation's history to do something to which local prosecutors are particularly susceptible?
4
Trump is doing what he does best and knows most about: suing.
16
@Em
Also, lying and thievery.
3
If you're not willing or able to be transparent about your finances, don't run for office. It's not that difficult a principle to follow, and even presidents should be shown their limits.
Can't anyone sue Trump for having promised he'd publish his tax returns and then breaking his word? Something along the line of consumer fraud, only here voter fraud?
19
@Dean
I read many years ago, The courts ruled that a politician cannot be sued for lying about campaign promises and not fulfilling them.
Trump, the pathological liar, conned many gullibles into voting for him.
1
@Getreal while I can see that politicians might face unforeseen obstructions of their goals, being able to holding them accountable somehow would be a huge step forward for honesty in politics.
So trump's 'victory' in 2016 was a get out of jail free card? The GOP may believe that trump is immune from criminal prosecution for acts committed while he's president, but are they willing to excuse crimes like tax and bank fraud and money laundering before he took office? Do the GOP qualifications for president now include one's ability to flout the law?
21
@John SO, according to the GOP, Trump cannot be investigated for criminal acts. How, then, can a president be impeached for "high crimes and misdemeanors," if he cannot be investigated for crimes and misdemeanors by Congress, the police or the attorneys general of states or the US??
19
A US President standing in the middle of 5th Ave shooting hundreds of rounds from a standard US weapon and killing hundreds of US and foreign citizens could not be criminally investigated by this logic. Congress would have no right to information related to the incident so it would be impossible to convict in an impeachment proceeding.
The US president also cannot be indicted after leaving office according to other legal filings by his lawyers so he would be above the law in every sense.
Luckily for them the GOP has packed the courts with morally corrupt judges using politically corrupt tactics so trump can get away with it for the next 6, 10, 14, 18 years or until he dies and passes power to his preferred son.
23
@Disgusted American
Now that wasn’t to hard to understand, was it
1
@Disgusted American According to the Obama administration, a US president who commits war crimes and authorizes torture can't (or at any rate mustn't) be prosecuted, even though the Supreme Law of the Land says he must. So what else is new?
Imagine my surprise, given that screaming and suing has been Trump lifetime go-to move. Best of luck, trying to shove Vance around in a New York court.
By the way, there are no laws requiring tax disclosure. But you do have to obey lawful subpoenas of your records. The reason the Constitution didn’t mention it is that there were then no income taxes. And you subpoena tax returns because you think somebody’s up to something illegal, and you want to know where the money came from.
16
Honestly, does anyone really believe the Framers wrote ANY part of the constitution with the idea of shielding criminal behavior by a sitting president in mind? Like all other citizens, presidents who commit crimes should of course be held accountable. One beautiful part of the American Experiment is the idea that all of us are equal under the law. Being the president doesn't make you a King or a God.
I certainly don't like the idea that I live in a country where the president could, say, punch me in the face and not be charged with assault and battery. Sounds pretty un-democratic and un-American if you ask me.
31
@Jonathan
The ghost of Scalia might believe that and decry anyone suggesting otherwise as an idiot.
3
@Jonathan: The Republican Supreme Court will inform you that you might be wrong.
It is established that, constitutionally, a sitting President can be investigated and sued and impeached for civil violations.
What sense is there in an argument that a potential criminal as president must be protected but not a jay walking or parking ticket president?
One thing seems too inevitable: too many "conservative" judges will be willing to spit on the Constitution and the rule of law so as to protect Trump. Republicans have been playing the long game: with extreme gerrymandering, voter suppression, theft of judicial appointments and, the most perverse and sickest of all, their king-maker doctrine: the unitary executive, all in service of the goal of minority rule in the White House, answerable to no one and certainly not to Congress. The Founding Fathers are undoubtedly screaming from their graves: no, no, no, this is not what we meant all you vile "originalists", this is not what we fought and died for.
13
No One Is Above The Law, specially criminal law - not even the President of the United States. Disregard this at irreversible cost to the country, the citizenry and democracy.
21
Sure. I remember that part of the Constitution that provides equal rights for tax frauds and money launderers.
14
What if Individual 1 engaged in criminal activity in furtherance of winning the presidency? Sounds like he would have defrauded the voters. I mean, we know he did, with his claims and promises, but still, he ought to be held accountable.
12
There are few ironies greater than Trump's lawyer worrying about significant constitutional issues.
10
I think that Trump's lawyers are stretching an argument past the breaking point. The generally accepted principle, not the law, is that a sitting President should not be indicted for any criminal wrongdoing while in office.
The idea that he cannot be investigated is simple ludicrous and wishful thinking on Trump's part. If Richard Nixon was alive today he would certainly tell Trump otherwise. Mueller is alive and should also tell him.
Trump is trying any tactic, no matter how crazy, to forestall the inevitable. His crimes will be made public and he will be held accountable.
The American people should sue Trump for breach of contract. He repeatedly promised during his campaign that once he was elected he would release his tax returns. Well, where are they?
Promises made, promises kept. We should sue him for that one too.
9
I hope the taxpayers aren't paying Trump's legal fees for this, since the request had to do with violating campaign laws. I would think taxpayers are not held responsible for what all those presidential campaigns decide to do that violate campaign laws and rules.
Also, Trump's decision to sue NY is his personal decision and has nothing to do with his duties as President, so he needs to pay out of his own pocket for these latest Trump law suits.
But if elected POTUS, then my guess is what illegal things that president's campaign did might be grounds for impeachment.
I sure hope I live long enough to see this slippery, corrupt eel, President Donald J. Trump, held accountable legally for at least some of his many flagrant misdeeds and abuse of power while president.
13
Trump is an alleged criminal in so many ways they can't all be listed here.
With his lawyers, he can delay, delay, delay.
Better to continue to go ahead with investigation and prosecutions but also concentrate on getting him out of office in 2020 with the vote so bringing him to justice will be made easier where he can hide behind the Oval Office.
5
In no place does the Constitution of the United States of America explicity state that the President of the nation is immune from criminal investigation and/or prosecution. The framers of the document were exceedingly clear-thinking individuals. If they did not give the executive branch that immunity the executive branch does not have it and claiming otherwise is nonsense.
It's long past time for this administration and this president to be brought to account for their deeds and words. It's long past time to impeach Donald Trump. Congress: do your job.
11
With regard to: "This is ridiculous. If the Supreme Court dares protect Trump's tax returns .... that will be all the evidence I need that the highest court in our land is a joke."
It is an established fact that the Supreme Court is a political body; i.e., a "joke" of a court. Senator Whitehouse of Rhode Island recently made this point, along with a suggestion on how to change it- PACK THE COURT.
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@M Caplow
There's nothing like having two corrupt parties taking turns.
@M Caplow
Wrong.
The court is now packed with right wing Catholics federalist society goons.
It needs unpacking.
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@dressmaker "Two corrupt parties"?? I only know of one party that has stolen a Supreme Court seat.
1
Two or three weeks ago, on his nightly MSNBC TV show The Last Word, commentator Lawrence O'Donnell said someone in the know told him that the reason Deutsche Bank was willing to loan Trump millions — when no other bank would loan him a nickel — is because the loans were co-signed by Russian oligarchs close to Putin. As it turns out, O'Donnell apologized for making the statement without further vetting, but he did not say he had learned it was untrue. Seems to make sense.
Whatever Trump is hiding, the sooner it comes out the better. He's a menace to America and the planet.
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In Clinton v. Jones in 1997 the Supreme Court made it PERFECTLY clear that a sitting President is not immune from prosecution for acts committed before they entered office.
There is no "get out of jail free" card for sitting Presidents as this one seem intent on believing.
Trump's certainty of immunity is animating his brazen daylight robbery of our Democracy.
We need a faster, more certain response to such criminality.
The pace of this "process" is killing the Nation.
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@Mark In PS
That was a different Supreme Court. What we have now is a court with a sullied reputation that cannot be looked to for justice.
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@Mark In PS
"In Clinton v. Jones in 1997 the Supreme Court made it PERFECTLY clear that a sitting President is not immune from prosecution for acts committed before they entered office."
Apparently, not clear enough. Clinton v Jones stands for the proposition that a sitting President is not immune from civil litigation. What we are talking about here are criminal matters.
Not only can he be investigated, the results of an investigation, even a state investigation, might serve as a basis to impeach.
I am so sick of Trump and his enablers. I hope he is swept out of office in 2020. It will be interesting to see who helps this guy then.
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@Texas Duck
Trump is likely planning on moving to Mother Russia
1
Seems as though if you have enough money and power laws can be manipulated and spun to allow one to shot someone on the street and get away with it as he stated in the past.
5
The constant stonewalling from the Trump White House on every topic about which questions remain, from taxes to obstruction, is an insidious blight on democracy. Richard Nixon said, "People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook." We shouldn't have to wait any more months to find out the verdict on Trump.
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“The president’s lawyer said a subpoena seeking Mr. Trump’s personal and corporate tax records raised “significant constitutional issues.””
Alas, trump would not recognize the constitution if it dropped on his head
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I propose public bounty fund for anyone willing to break the law and leak his tax returns once and for all. All other remedies have been exhausted, and yes it has come to this. It is a revolutionary tactic for revolutionary times. If the president of our country declares he is above the law who are we to deny the wisdom of his words?
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Gosh, I guess Mr Trump was not telling the truth when he said he'd release his taxes if he won because he had nothing to hide.
Maybe he has a lot to hide.
7
In the event the SCOTUS is called upon to decide this matter, the Federalist Society and Leonard Leo will be sure to call in their chips.
4
tRump's lawyers disingenuously argue that the president “cannot be subject to criminal process, for conduct of any kind, while he is serving as president.”
That's quite a[n il]logical leap from a Department of Justice policy, never tested in court, that a sitting president cannot be subjected to Federal indictment.
It amounts to an assertion the the president is above the law.
No. No one is above the law.
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In the event the SCOTUS is called upon to decide this matter, the Federalist Society and Leonard Leo will be sure to call in their chips.
1
We are, to the use the old term, "These United States". NY State is not bound by any law, and DOJ policy is for the federal government, not NY State. I can only hope that we can shine a light where there is darkness and find the truth.
6
Corruption, corruption and more corruption. My Americans if this in not obvious, then I don't know what is.
6
Buying the line that a president cannot be criminally investigated is to embrace a belief that will destroy our nation.
There is simply no way around that.
Trump refuses to step down, naming himself emperor for life...well, that's unfortunate, but we can't prosecute because, well...memos.
When did this inanity begin to take hold? A nation of, by, and for the people cannot accept such foolishness.
5
The voting public needs to see Trump’s tax returns before the next election. We need to see in black & white how he’s consistently bilked the American people out of tens of billions of dollars.
We hard working, tax paying folks pay more than our fair share while he golfs and makes deals to increase his personal empire.
3
Translation: Trump's lawyers argue he's a dictator, and above the law.
8
So does Barr. The question is, is the AG Trump’s attorney... or ours?
3
Am I the only one confused about this? How do you determine if the President has committed "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" without investigating the President?
2
Why worry, Mr. tRumpy, you believe the line in the US Constitution, the President may pardon any person.
Any person includes you. That is, tRumpy believes the framers wanted a national leader to be above the law, able to commit any crime, pardon thyself, and go happily on into history.
Of course, you cannot pardon a corporation.
No mention in this article, what lines in the US Constitution state a sitting President cannot be investigated or charged with a crime. My copy shows nothing to suggest such nonsense.
The only argument this Criminal-in-chief has left, because he is no longer to argue he is innocent; and to think that he is seeking reelection precisely in order to continue shielding himself from indictments... Did the Founders ever imagine this would be the primary motivation for the highest office in the land ? What kind of example are we, as a society, and supposed advanced democracy, setting, by elevating its most corrupt members ?
2
What his lawyers meant to say, in clarification, is that no Republican president can be investigated.
4
No man is above the law, even the President.
6
So if I understand this correctly, the President's lawyers are stating that 'sitting Presidents are immune from criminal prosecution until they leave office.' This is, on it's face, absurd. Taken to the extreme, Trump as President could actually shoot someone on Fifth Ave. and not be charged. He could take bribes openly and not be charged. He could commit tax fraud, brag about it, and not be charged. Really?? Presidents must be held accountable - and the law as it is written is the only power capable of doing that. If a court upholds their argument, there is nothing that will stop any person in the office to do whatever he/she wants. Utter madness.
6
All the more reason to get to the bottom of concerns about Kavanagh, who has plenty in common with the groper-in-chief! Trump's sister, who officially retired to avoid any further analysis of the family "fortune," is an intuitive indicator of how the Trump gang functions... One could reasonably argue that the Constitutional Oath Trump took for his office would necessarily incline him to follow the Rule of Law in Our Society, though Trump treats his job with about as much respect for these societal norms as Neil Bush respected Savings and Loans! Such attitudes, expressed mainly by the criminal elements of Society, are usually condemned by the Republican party. Oh well...
4
12000 + lies. Promises from "Mexico will pay for it" to I'll show them to you if you elect me".
ALL lies. That's not presidential and it means he shouldn't have presidential immunity. It mean he should be taken out of office immediately for the damage he's doing to the country. Lies destroy alliances, which destroy trade. Which cost Americans jobs. That's not why he was elected. To lie is to steal, as my grandfather said.
5
So are they admitting there are criminal acts? What about acts before he became president? Why should America have to tolerate a criminal in the WH if his criminal acts are proven? His term is up in a little over a year. Investigations take time. Investigate now, prosecute later if need be. Indictments can be sealed.
4
This POTUS - by his election - set some unprecedented precedents, first non politucian who had never run before, multi divorced, a businessman etc. And oh add, all kinds of allegations.
Then came Mueller which set some new milestones.
And now this.
In100 years -there is going to be a whole body of Trump vs. "you name it"
Folks, 100 years from now - would only marvel that it's amazing he lasted both terms.
1
@Neil, he hasn't got the second term yet and with what he's doing to the environment there won't be anybody here 100 years from now.
1
Okay, so Trump “cannot be subject to criminal process, for conduct of any kind, while he is serving as president.” Any kind? What if he was suspected of being an axe murderer. I guess investigators would let the crimes continue until his term was up.
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By this standard, he could not be investigated even if he did shoot a person in the middle of 5th Avenue. It's truly absurd.
5
Indeed it causes significant Constitutional issues: it's call 'separation of powers'.
4
The audit excuse is over.....hand over the tax returns.
Guess it was phony auditing, right? Who else could get away with this?
4
@MIMA My boyfriend was an auditor. He said that was a dumb excuse. Trump would have to release the returns if he wanted a loan (and he took out many loans). In other words, Trump lied. Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!
1