"Ms. Warren’s proposed wealth tax targets only households with assets exceeding $50 million."
This is the sort of "aside" by the author which is not wrong, it smacks of the very elitism which the author seeks to identify and distinguish from the real Ms. Warren.
The "wealth" tax aintet going no where, because it is unconstitutional. The elites, including Ms. Warren, know this but won't say it, cause it sounds so good and egalitarian.
The middle and working classes know, outside Boston and elsewhere, that where President Warren will really bring thise taxes home is on them.
This is because her Medicare for All will cost upwards of 32 trillion dollars (yes, dollars) and all her "wealth taxes" "Corporate taxes" "People spending too much time being an entrepreneur" taxes, will only bring in a couple of trillion dollars in a decade.
Meanwhile, Ms. Warren refuses to explain how she is going to fund the other 30 trillion.
Most of us suspect that it will be on our backs, the working and middle classes. What's let of 'em.
But I enjoyed the article. Perhaps Liz will one day go on Colbert and actually give an answer. After all, if a liberal can't get past Colbert, he or she, or they, are having a really bad PR day.
1
Americans LOVE the Wall Streeters picking their pockets.
Americans LOVE drinking water filled with carcinogens and lead.
Americans LOVE devastating hurricanes, floods and wildfires that destroy homes and livelihoods and kill people.
Americans LOVE racism and feed on hatred and bigotry. They don't WANT equality.
Americans LOVE gun violence, especially school shootings.
Americans value war, never peace.
Were this NOT the case, we would already HAVE President Sanders or Warren or Kucinich instead of Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II and now Trump.
Sooner or later we will have to face who we are. Stop blaming Russian bots, the electoral college and gerrymandering. This is a rotten country. Simple as that.
1
Non college educated whites are inscrutible. They want their kids to go to college and obviously use college educated doctors, lawyers and teachers and other professionals including politicians but have difficulty voting for one for President. Mencken was correct. Never underestimate the stupidity of the average American. Einstein could grasp a limitless universe but not limitless human stupidity.
7
Here we go again with the mythical white working class voters in those three states the very few thousand of whom are the only voters critical to winning in 2020.
Yes yes you all are so correct that the 65 million plus voters who pulled the lever for Clinton in 2016 are 100% known to be certain to go to the polls and vote for the Democrat in 2020.
Sorry, are we really this stupid?????
1
Obviously written by a Biden supporter who mistakenly imagines that Biden will win over Trump supporters.
1
Yes, as everyone, 100 of the voting population is white working class people. Everyone else can go to the dogs
i.e. She has a problem with stupid people who form their opinions by listening to Fox news. Same problem as Hillary.
It is why Republicans are so anti-education: the stupider the voters are, the more likely they are to get elected.
6
If Senator Warren gets the Democratic nomination, I suggest she find a running mate who can help balance the ticket in the minds of working class guys. Perhaps a military man who weighs at least 180 lbs.
1
Why must we be at the mercy of white non-college-educated working class men? Perhaps these voters haven't had their fill of lies, abuse of power and corruption and instead continue to drink Trump's kool-aid instead of seeing the obvious, that he has given them nothing. Warren would be wise to continue to point this out.
4
Although I have been disappointed at how clearly the Times has de facto endorsed Warren already, I did not find this piece very convincing, as it relied more on anecdotes than persuasive facts.
2
So this billionaire who dismantles healthcare and decimates social programs is really on the side of the blue collar white man? Please! What universe are we living in?! Any blue collar worker who picks Trump over Elizabeth (or Bernie) deserves what they get!
4
To those who doubt that Elizabeth Warren has support in the African American community, please read this:
https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/09/09/elizabeth-warren-african-american-support
In fact, she is very well liked by Black voters in Massachusetts.
4
And how many "critical vulnerabilities" does Trump have?
So if Elizabeth has "a" critical vulnerability, that is peanuts compared to Trump's "vulnerabilities" -- no conscience, dishonesty and a track record of lying rather than telling the truth, total lack of human decency, disrespect for the law and the Constitution, no concern for anyone but himself, terrible judgment, rude, crude, crass, doesn't know what he doesn't know and doesn't care....
4
There is nothing Warren can do to appeal to the white working class people whom you quote if they are doing nothing but watching Fox News. Perhaps you selectively used quotes; however, if it reflects their actual conversations with you it indicates they exclusively watch inflammatory media.
2
Reactions to politicians tend to be visceral. particularly with people who are not given to self-examination or any effort reflecting on why they hold certain opinions. Working class people who dislike Warren what they hate is an image of her that has taken hold of their mind. It has nothing to do with who she really is or what her policies are, Once one has decided that everything a person says is bull it is almost impossible for that person to dislodge that feeling, any attempt will be seen as pandering. All Warren can do is pursye doggedly her agenda, explain what she wants to accomplish in ways that can be easily understood, and hope that eventually some closed minds will open. In the end the only thing that will change such negative opinions is if as President she manages to get things done that visibly improve working class lives.
2
Please, these people who don't like Warren in Massachusetts are the same people who hate all Democrats. 5% difference in polling? You better believe that's because she has been the target of the right wing radio hosts and sports radio hosts, the Boston Herald, the radio host and columnist for the Boston Herald who plays La Cucaracha on the days he reads stories of immigrants who commit crimes, even minor ones.
The ones who are ecstatic about Trump trolling the liberals.
Having said that, and though I love Warren and donate to her campaign, idiots in the Midwest and Pennsylvania have to be accounted for. Thus I hope Biden can look good enough to win the nomination to minimize what I see is the problem the candidates created by concentrating on the border and Universal care.
They are giving gifts to Trump. We know that they will be more humane and work for better healthcare access, but no need to have a Univision questioner try to pin them down on how many millions of immigrants should be let in.
1
She is far more likeable than Hillary and she won't let Trump get away with upstaging her during a debate. She is likely to crush "The Donald" in any head to head debate and I can't hardly wait to see it. He will be toast!
2
"I also came across what certainly sounded like, although it was not overtly expressed, reluctance to embracing her because she is a woman. “I can’t even listen to her. I just shut it off” — the television — “when she comes on,” a man at Uptown’s Finest Barbershop told me."
So if a guy can't stand Warren, the NYT just assumes it's sexism because, well, they just know everything is about men being sexist.
But if women can't stand Trump, he must be the sexist one because, well, everything is about men being sexist.
Typical NYT stereotype thinking. So much easier than logic and evidence.
3
This country will take any mediocre man over an intelligent, qualified, plain-faced woman who wears pantsuits. It's likely I'll be in my grave before American voters grow up and join the rest of the adult world.
1
She is a frail looking mousy-like person with a whiny voice. She says things that are very radical and threatening. Those two in combination are very unappealing.
1
They'd like her is she were a man. Full stop.
1
The United States is composed of 50 different states, not 50 New York's. That is Warren's Critical Vulnerability.
3
White working class voters need to wake up and see which side their bread is buttered. Otherwise their candidates will continue laughing all the way to the bank.
1
Success and acclaim in the fields of education and government doesn't really resonate with those who work with their hands (and backs). Not the grittiest of fields.
2
" . . . she is viewed by some, whatever her declared agenda, as typical of an elite that is out of touch with the concerns of ordinary working people."
Yep - That right there is why Elizabeth Warren will lose to Donald Trump. Never forget that Hillary Clinton represented an elitist class set on wars and more wars, just like George Bush. Trump didn't win the Presidency; Clinton lost it. Now, for all those of you who don't get it, consider the following:
1) I have been against ALL US wars since 1965.
2) I have been an anti-war activist since 1968.
3) I voted for Jill Stein in the last election.
4) If I would have "held my nose and voted" like so many of my friends suggested, I would have voted for Trump.
All you knee-jerk liberals don't get that Clinton, not Trump, was the warmonger candidate in 2016. Clinton made much of the fact that she was going to try and ban Russian planes from Syrian airspace, which would have started WW III. At least Trump hasn't embroiled us in a war with Russia - yet.
So, whine and moan all you want about Trump, but Clinton dug a huge hole for the next Democratic nominee. The smartest thing for the DNC would be to do an end run around tradition and compromise on a single issue candidate like Jay Inslee.
1
As a non-college-educated working-class voter, retired, I will vote for Warren. Don't be so willing to write us off it hurts our cause.
It is the black vote not white vote she has to worry about.
40
If Elizabeth Warren is nominated as the Democrat's candidate, President Trump gets four more years.
He won't even have to destroy her in a debate, she'll do it herself.
Another commenter stated that when she speaks, she looks like she's on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She will just come across as incapable of really being President. Even former supporters will have second thoughts, and vote for Trump. Mark my words.
As for her platform, it is noting but handouts. How about the economy or national security? How about our borders and population control? How about CHINA?
2
None of the “problems” regarding to attracting or relating to white working class voters is specific to Warren.
The receptiveness of Democratic elites to neoliberal policies funded by corporate interests has made that elite inimical to the struggles of workers, underdogs, and decent people everywhere.
In one sense, trust has to be earned - and that means walking the walk. In another sense there are large numbers of voters who, while extremely suspicious of politics, government, business, and the educated elite, are touchingly EAGER to cast their trust in with someone who manages to appear somehow “authentic”.
Look at trimp and how much support he gets from frustrated, frenzied, and desperate small time contributors.
The trouble with “trust” though is that once it is lost . . . Who or What will fill that swirling vacuum of need...?
The author fails to point out that Rockland is the next town over from where Sen. Warren's 2018 Republican opponent resides, and is the base of his support.
3
A friend who for years has lived down the street from her in Cambridge tells me that she’s the ONLY person on the block whose sidewalk is always fully clear of ice and snow. In New England that counts for a lot. It’s not the only reason she’s got my vote, but it does tell me she’s got a strong sense of the common, the public good.
5
"She'll tax me." Oh no, avers the author, Warren's wealth tax is only aimed at fortunes over 50 million dollars. Who says the lady he quoted meant Warren's wealth tax? Warren has an expansive policy agenda that will cost real money. She will tax thee and me to pay for it. The woman quoted knew what she was talking about.
Anyway, advocating decriminalizing the border is a sure way to lose the election. The author (and Senator Warren) ought to remember that only about one-fifth of Americans identify as liberals.
1
Many voters, especially those without a college education, do not get into the nuts and bolts of policies. They find a candidate they are comfortable with, someone they feel has their back, whom they can trust to fight for them, and leave the details to him or her. Often, these voters simply don’t have the tools—the knowledge base and/or the analytic skills—to evaluate complex policy proposals. So, they listen to their gut.
Of course millions made that judgment about Donald Trump, and they were wrong. But it is important to understand this mode of thinking when analyzing voter reaction to someone like Elizabeth Warren. For myself, and I’m sure, most readers of The Times, her policy rollouts are a defining feature of her candidacy.
But millions of others won’t judge her that way; they will depend on their "gut" reaction, whatever that may be. So it is fair to ask, as Mr. Starobin does, how will she perform with such voters.
4
Policies are theories. Voters make a judgement on practical. People who are sceptical of Warren don't trust she will be in practice/effect what the uber liberals are imagining. Yes, one can have a policy on every single issue. That is all theoretical. Practice is different.
And yes Trump has a million flaws, but many people don't trust Clintons. They have poor judgement at the least (Lewinsky, friendship with Epstein, attending a billionaire's daughter $200mn wedding ).
When voters saw someone who was for real (Obama) they voted for him. And if they see originality, I think many many voters won't vote for Trump.
2
Difficult that Elizabeth Warren is distrusted by the white working class.
I suspect that Senator Warren’s policies will be helpful to working Americans, and I encourage her to reach out to them.
5
Some comments were made about superficial characteristics that are impeding Warren with voters, like the sound of her voice. The author uses several personal interviews and anecdotes; I'll use one. A liberal Democratic associate of mine observed how grating she found Warren's shrill voice, even as she admitted it was a sexist reaction. Unfair or not, its out there; its a factor. Combined with more substantive questions about the authenticity of her biography, she's not the most winning candidate. We have many to choose from. Who do we want to govern?
1
Something that Democrats, liberals, and progressives just can't seem to get through their heads is the fact that a lot of working people, not just Republicans, vote for conservative candidates because:
1) They resent the fact that so many people have their hand out to the government, and it obliges them by giving them an easier financial existence than WORKING people...enough with the handouts, get to work!
2) They don't want to turn our country into another Latin American country (are there any of those that function anywhere near as well as we do?).
3) They want our government to control our borders, helping us to control our population. Overpopulation is at the core of so many of our problems, including poverty and climate change.
4) We need fair trade deals, even if it means paying a short-term cost. Is it fair to have a 65% tax on American wheat going to China, when they can import to the U.S. without any tax? How about a 28% import tax on American vehicles going to Germany, but only 1.4% on German vehicles coming to the U.S.? We have been subsidizing the world economy since WWII...time for that to end.
5) LGBTQN citizens already have the same rights as everyone else. Just be quiet and live your lives like everyone else. Accusing everyone who thinks this lifestyle is wrong of having a phobia (homophobia), is just name calling.
The Democrats address none of these issues. It's not that they dislike Warren or educated women, they dislike their policies.
7
I have a friend in Brewster, Mass, a town nearby to Orleans on the Cape, who simply abhors her persona. He sees her as a scold, a hectoring know- it- all , and can’t get past that to even listen to her ideas.
5
She has my vote and I'm a white, middle aged, working class male in the deep south bible belt.
10
How many of those white working class voters saw her senate campaigns or have truly heard her message? Very few people watch senate races unfold. They don’t watch the debates, all they see is snippets. That gives them reason to assume that she is just another joe Biden but a woman, which is what elites want them to think. However, everyone who has paid any attention can see with their own eyes that she is in a different class of politician than Joe Biden. Joe Biden has set a low bar that sullies the assumed values of all other candidates in our party. Warren represents the future and a message that will resonate with them once they are paying attention. Her life story is highly relatable and she came from nothing and earned what she got. No one can diminish that. Not joe Biden. Not Donald trump. No matter what they do she will come off as a fighter, that is who she is.
Joe Biden is not a fighter. He is a sacrificial lamb and the candidate that embodies a pessimistic electorate. Warren will impassion and ignite that same electorate that joe Biden is trying to scare people into making a foolish decision.
We will destroy Trump. She will create a more equitable society, and a new dawn of politics will be born.
She just needs to be seen and heard, and now she will be. She is our only chance to win the White House. I say that as a centrist who disagrees somewhat with her on immigration and impeachment.
But she is clearly the best candidate in this field
7
Let's see, tell me again who won the 2016 Democratic Party presidential primaries in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota?
That moderate Hillary Clinton, right?
Ummm, no.
It was that Democratic Socialist Bernie Sanders!
Hmmm. That kinda directly undermines the argument that Elizabeth Warren wouldn't get the "white, working-class voters like those important to winning Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin," doesn't it?
5
Unless Warren actually IS Bernie Sanders, the fact that Bernie did well in those states doesn't undermine the article's thesis at all.
1
So if I understand this correctly, the "Warren Paradox" is that Republican voters who love Trump wouldn't vote for her. Unlike say, all the other Democratic candidates that they love?
Also, just curious, has the Times EVER ran a piece about "working class" Black voters? Or "non-college educated" Latino voters? Curious how those terms are reserved for white voters only.
7
She is a woman. And unfortunately the working class has voted against its best interests at least since Reagan.
I recently heard a supposed liberal doubting that it was time for a female president. I ask the men out there, how would you feel if there had been 45 women presidents and no males?
5
You are correct, but it is also the case that many women will NEVER vote for a woman candidate for President. Very sad, in both cases.
4
She has a problem with everyone outside of upper-class whites, unlike sanders who has a diverse and extremely dedicated base of support. Media, including the NYT, have consistently gone out of their way to downplay and ignore Sanders' campaign while insisting Warren's victory is inevitable, even when discussing issues like the labor movement (who's biggest champion is unequivocally sanders), and it is deeply dishonest. I would vote for Warren in a heartbeat if she got the nomination, but the lack of reflection on 2016 on the part of the media scares me.
1
The “open borders” canard is a GOP talking point that is sticking with less-discerning media consumers. None of the Democratic candidates are advocating for “open borders”. We want those seeking asylum and protection to do what they are doing—approaching legal crossings and requesting asylum. There is no reason these persons, or their children and babies, require incarceration. They are fleeing danger, not posing a danger. They open their asylum cases, find shelter with relatives or sympathetic households, and receive hearings. Then they either get to stay or they don’t. Same with illegal crossings: catch and return them to their originating countries. If they have children or parents in the US, let them open immigration cases and be heard. But this mass incarceration model is new and demonizing, traumatizing and completely unnecessary. This model is how trump is creating a border emergency. It’s more aptly described as a human trafficking and kidnapping emergency.
I’m sick of seeing alleged Democrats swallowing GOP lies and talking points.
2
What an amazing thought piece. Voters taken in by Trump are sticking with him and won't vote for Elizabeth Warren. Who'd've thunk it?
3
We are all biting our nails because every democratic candidate has some kind of vulnerability with some constituency. The poorly educated are problematic exactly because they are credulous enough to love Trump, which is why he loves them. This doesn't dent our support for Elizabeth Warren.
2
Women don't like her. They should, perhaps, but they don't. I am terrified that she will be nominated as I strongly believe she is unelectable. And the mistake of nominating her could possibly ruin the country irrevocably given 4 more years of Trump.
"Does Elizabeth Warren Have a Critical Vulnerability?" Simple: "Pocahontas".
It won't matter if that blunt-force pay-per-word has any meaning or even makes sense to the vile GOP. She's largely resolved the issues about tribes and ancestry, but the Andrew Jackson fan and his party-cult won't let that go. But that's just more reason to quit the outreach and work to outVOTE.
1
Does Joe Biden Have a Critical Vulnerability?
Yes, lots and lots!
4
What is her standing with African Americans? You may be able to thread the needle with one group (non educated whites) but not the other (African Americans), but it cannot be done with neither.
I love Elizabeth Warren, and I think she would make an excellent President. But several of her policy proposals are so far left they are nonstarters for a large number of moderate voters.
Also, she doesn't poll well with African Americans, an essential demographic for Democrats.
I think she'll win the nomination, but the general will be tough unless Trump totally implodes between now and then, which is a distinct possibility.
As a longtime Dem, I will gladly vote for Warren if she becomes the Democratic nominee. BUT I confess I find her voice and manner abrasive and off-putting, almost as bad as Bernie’s. (I like Warren but find I tire easily of being yelled at, whether I agree with the person doing the yelling or not.) If that’s how I feel, I can only imagine how independent voters and current Republicans would respond to her. I have no doubt that Warren holds an intellectual advantage over Trump (who doesn’t?) but I worry that this alone won’t be enough to defeat him in the states she needs to win most. I can already imagine the way FoxNews will play it: the four-eyed Harvard loudmouth versus the smirking guy in the MAGA hat who counters every logically-reasoned argument with one word: “Pocahontas.” Warren has my vote if she needs it but a Trump re-election seems more likely to me every day.
7
Warren is struggling with the working class and people of color. What does that leave? Her entire base of support are upper class, college educated white people.
Where does this leave us? Biden, who has completely lost his mind or Sanders who draws the "white working class" the working class and has more support from people of color.
It's curious we are discussing Warren's one problem, when she has a long list of problems. It's also curious that Sanders is in second place, tied in some polls with Biden, and beating Trump in Texas, and the discussion seems to be geared around Warren who doesn't have support from many people of color and is also struggling with the working class.
Biden is in first place, deteriorating more and more each day. It's becoming clear he is no longer equipped to go up against Trump. We should be asking ourselves, is the media doing us a favor by skipping to the third place candidate that obviously have a lot of problems drawing crucial votes?
Sanders is the second choice for Biden and Warren supporters. Virtually every candidate, including Warren is running on a variation of Sanders' platform, but doesn't do as well to defend or explain it. The choice is more and more obvious.
Fun fact: Bernie Sanders has been consistently beating Trump in the polls since 2016.
Something that Democrats, liberals, and progressives just can't seem to get through their heads is the fact that a lot of working people, not just Republicans, vote for conservative candidates because:
1) They resent the fact that so many people have their hand out to the government, and it obliges them by giving them an easier financial existence than WORKING people...enough with the handouts, get to work!
2) They don't want to turn our country into another Latin American country (are there any of those that function anywhere near as well as we do?).
3) They want our government to control our borders, helping us to control our population. Overpopulation is at the core of so many of our problems, including poverty and climate change.
4) We need fair trade deals, even if it means paying a short-term cost. Is it fair to have a 65% tax on American wheat going to China, when they can import to the U.S. without any tax? How about a 28% import tax on American vehicles going to Germany, but only 1.4% on German vehicles coming to the U.S.? We have been subsidizing the world economy since WWII...time for that to end.
5) LGBTQN citizens already have the same rights as everyone else. Just be quiet and live your lives like everyone else. It is possible to have logical reasons for opposing homosexuality, etc., without having a phobia.
The Democrats address none of these issues. It's not that they dislike Warren or educated women, they dislike their policies.
5
Like many others, she seems to want to get elected more than she wants to improve things for us. I may be wrong, but in the debates (second, especially) she seemed to be displaying for us that she's tenacious enough to vanquish Trump - to the point of picking fights when there were none among other democratic candidates. But maybe this was just her handlers....
4
Warren will be fine. It is looking increasingly likely that she will be the Democratic nominee for president as Biden is failing to excite dem voters because she seems authentic (just like Bernie but his time has passed). Being authentic is the most important thing in a candidate and voters can intuitively sense it.
In 2020, any Dem candidate will win rather easily mainly because of suburban women. Hillary lost the suburbs slightly and so the election. Dems are going to win the cities and the GOP will win in rural areas but it is the suburbs that decide the presidential elections.
All the suburban soccer moms are terrified every day when they drop their kids off for school and are sick when they hear the school had another shooter drill. These suburban women will decide the election and they will be happy to vote for Warren.
6
I think Warren comes off as less elitist than this writer maintains. To me she comes off as a midwestern liberal pragmatist, and seems more Oklahoma than Massachusetts.
I think her steady rise has not been a function of people's agreement with her very liberal policies but a step by step realization that she might actually be the BEST candidate to take on Trump. Warren feels like she's midwestern to her bones, and has settled in Massachusetts as a function of her job.
I think she is the person who is uniquely capable of making the corruption case against Trump, and that might be the most powerful case we've got. And despite her having a policy plan for everything under the sun, she doesn't come off as a policy wonk. Warren can talk about all of these things in very practical terms.
One of the reasons why Biden makes me so nervous is that it feels like he has taken his playbook this time around almost entirely from Hillary's 2016 playbook (appeal to the center, to the people who want a return to traditional politics and civility, to emphasize his conservative bona fides, and make it a referendum on Trump alone), and we all know how that turned out.
Warren just never comes off that way to me. The big question will be whether or not she can frame some of her more liberal positions in a way that people who disagree with her can tolerate. I think she shows signs of being able to do that, pretty much better than anybody else in the race right now.
9
@Harlemboy
She doesn't seem like someone from MA or from OK (which is not the "midwest")... maybe Iowa.
Let's just face it, many of these people are either uninformed, ill-informed, or plain don't care about being informed at all. You're not dealing with a lot of high-wattage bulbs here and there really is no quick cure. The debates could help, but Warren's positions might actually require two minutes explain and not the ten seconds each candidate is allotted. She stands out from the pack because of her detailed plans but again, how will anyone ever learn of them except through a foaming-at-the-mouth sound byte on Fox?
6
I think that anyone who believes that Senator Warren's policy agenda would be good for the country, including the non-college-educated working people of Massachusetts and the Midwest, should not write her off as too risky in a campaign against Trump. That campaign hasn't begun yet, and when it does I don't think Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden will be sitting on the sidelines, nor will Barack Obama. I think Warren will present herself well enough in blue-collar districts, and I also believe that Trump's nastiness will not play well against her.
6
It seems like it's the same old story. Both the white working class and the minority working class are similar. Yet the white working class hold grudges against those "urban people". They want to feel privileged, and exclusive because they feel white people "deserve it" more. If they think the scale is tipping too much toward "them", then they feel put out.
I was raised in NYC and I have lived in all five boroughs. Even NYC can have some pockets of very very small minded people. Trump was very popular in NY for that reason, and he knew that many of these people wanted to be told how to think. Jimmy Breslin hated that.
I love Elizabeth Warren and I will vote for her in the primary. I hope that this contentious part of the population will not feel driven by their feelings that if Warren too much like them, then why is she a traitor. Maybe she also reminds them of the teacher that was too rough on them at school. I hope for a collective epiphany for these similar people, as I have also been working class my whole life, but I have had friends of many colors and persuasions, who I suspect many of these people have not had. Or a Biden/Warren ticket if he gets the nomination.
2
I'm not too worried about the white working class voters in Rockland, Mass., who won't vote for Warren. I think there's a pretty good chance they'll vote for Trump no matter which Democrat wins.
7
"For example, in a Fox survey, she drew 33 percent of white, non-college respondents in a matchup against President Trump, versus 38 percent for Joe Biden and 37 percent for Bernie Sanders. "
All you have to do to figure this one out is break down the support by gender. You'll find it isn't a "working class white problem" (at least not more than any Democrat has), it's a "working class white *man*" problem.
Working class white men don't like voting for women. There's not much she can do about that antipathy (I don't think becoming a trans man would be likely to help).
7
Nope. She's doing great and keeps rising. It is true that the white non-college-degree folks tend to feel discomfort with a woman prez but they are coming around as they get to know her and realize she's the real deal. The reason she can build bridges is that she listens- she doesn't just talk. She knows she needs to listen more to African-Americans and she's setting out to do that. She's simply the smartest, most capable candidate.
8
it is beyond obvious that warren and sanders should share a ticket, the two combined would be unstoppable against trump.
2
Unstoppable at losing the election at an unprecedented level.
1
Elizabeth Warren can connect in Michigan and win, in the same way Sanders did and Hillary did not.
The only contest in that is between Warren and Sanders. They can overcome that by reinforcing each other. How they do that is up to them, but it is their best futures.
3
I believe she has a more critical vulnerability - her policies on healthcare and the border. She might win without the "white working class," but she won't beat Trump without white collar suburbanites and black voters, both of whom tend to be more moderate. Both Medicare for all and decriminalization of illegal immigration are unpopular with the majority of American voters. If these policies depress Democratic turnout among black voters in Michigan and suburban voters in WI, PA and MI, Trump will have four more years in office. These policies may position her to win the Democratic nomination and lose the general election.
9
She gives free speeches and spends three hours meeting, greeting and taking pictures. She presents plans and policies, regularly, she has federal experience, she was drafted into service thanks to her relentless pursuit of a fair shake for those without money and connections, and a desire to help those being exploited by predatory lenders.
Her main goal is to squash corruption and end our government from being for sale to the highest bidder.
If this does not appeal to the people who are less educated it is not her problem to solve. It is theirs.
I did not finish college. I never married. I've been self supporting and on my own since 18. I don't put candidates into boxes based on gender, religion, skin color, sexual orientation and education.
The issue is that not everyone has the stomach, energy or interest in politics, and a lot of people have no free time to devote to it. Others use free time to relax with light fare since their lives are difficult.
More educated people tend to read newspapers, watch and have an opinion about this stuff probably because they have more free time to devote to it, and more money to hire services to free up even more time.
Others base decisions on name recognition, a few headlines, social media and maybe one debate. Don't blame candidates for this. In my opinion, if you don't know the candidates , where they stand, and how they effect you and yours, just stay home. Don't trash them because of their education or outfit.
7
It seems to me that the "white working class" paints everyone who happens has more than a high school education as "elite". OK, maybe it's our fault (and I say "our" b/c I'm one of those "elites" with an advanced degree). Maybe we deserve what we get b/c too many have us look down upon the middle class, often forgetting that we, myself including, come from that background. That said, to run a nation, especially one so highly advanced as the US, do we really want to put a person in charge who does not have a thorough academic background? The man now at the helm of the country seemingly has had (a certain degree of) advanced academic schooling, yet look at the mess he is creating, from trade to international diplomacy and climate science. Obviously, like all other human beings, the members of the "(white) middle class" fully deserve our respect. But I'm sorry, when it comes to knowledge, skills, and abilities to lead this country, I'm not sure what they want or expect. Then again, when it comes to Senator Warren, the animosity some members of the "white middle class" may display towards her may also have to do with her gender.
4
Yes, all she talks about are handouts, and who funds those?
For Ms. Warren's plans to work, she has to pull off a real coup, as far as funding is concerned.
She has to get states, some of which are already in a fiscal bind, to agree to match funding with the federal government (part of her plan), on a huge scale (on the order of $500 billion over 10 years, and ongoing).
She has to convince Congress to agree to a wealth tax plan, generating $2.75 trillion over 10 years. Wow! Our U.S. GDP is only about $19.4 trillion.
Warren's plans may be backed by spreadsheets, but the funding column, thus far, is blank (or filled in with imaginary numbers).
4
If the white, working class folk of the American Midwest haven’t figured out yet that Republicans in general, and Donal Trump in particular, could care less about anything but their vote, they deserve another four years of this. Elizabeth Warren is a working person’ dream. If they actually listen they will know that.
6
@John David James
They don't care. It's inherent to their being that they don't "take handouts" even while they and their neighbors take handout after handout.
If there was a way to come up with a benefit that gives only people $100/year they would all vote for the person offering it droves - so long as they were assured non-whites would not be eligible. This would not even be that expensive.
Alas, for good reason, good people would not encourage that kind of policy or behavior. Good thing Trump doesn't read here.
2
To win over the working class, and the presidency, Warren needs to rethink her stance on several issues. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Those who waited their turn and played by the rules feel alienated from those who want to erase any distinction between legal and illegal immigration. OPEN BORDERS--i.e. admission without inspection. There is a fear of migrants with possible connections to terrorist groups or criminal enterprises; of those who might enter without medical vetting that would detect infectious diseases; that some will arrive without job skills whose sponsors aren’t able to provide adequate financial support. Warren need to address these concerns as well as the humanitarian issues. ASYLUM SEEKERS AND REFUGEES What are the bases in international law, US law, and our American ethos which compel us to admit persons claiming status as asylum-seekers or refugees? ELIGIBILITY FOR FEDERAL BENEFITS BY UNDOCUMENTED RESIDENTS. When so many in the country are living in poverty, when our roads and bridges and schools are falling apart, there is resentment toward those candidates advocating free healthcare, free housing, free education for undocumented residents.
Most Americans favor humane policies if they don't reward those who game the system. As she expands immigration or our national safety net, how will Warren encourage respect for laws and self-reliance? And whether it's Medicare-for-all or another war, we need honest explanations of what we can pay for.
7
She looks too similar to Hillary Clinton. I said that at the outset. Recently I've wavered as she gathers steam. But it remains. Low information voters not included to vote for a woman in general will not elect her. There are a lot of them.
3
Suggestion:
Elizabeth Warren needs to buy about ten pairs of different, distinctive, cutting-edge eyeglasses.
Wear a different pair every day.
She'll look younger, cooler, and less school-marmish.
It'd be a thing. New photos/video of her every day in the press.
Get those Midwestern white, working-class voters to notice her.
Dems shouldn't be scaredy-cats about norm-shattering if it's fun norm-shattering to their advantage.
5
Sounds fun — except that it detracts from one of her greatest strengths, mentioned by so many here, her authenticity.
1
I will also vote for Warren over Trump any day. But, Warren's policy proposals have largely gone unvetted, unquestioned, and unchallenged. This article starts to take a deeper look under the layers of facade that the politician, Elizabeth Warren, has built up around herself.
2
I hate to say it but a significant number of Americans will not vote for a woman to be President. I think the first female President will be someone who succeeds to the office via the vice-Presidency. The mistake that Democrats make frequently is that they think voters respond to policy. They don't and we know they don't. Voters have an image in their minds of what a President looks like and they also vote for candidates they like. It's tough but true. I have tremendous regard for Warren but she is very unlikely to be President. VP more likely.
1
I believe we are witnessing the making of a President. President Elizabeth Warren will win the nomination and then the Presidency, culminating an almost perfect linear ascendancy from her challenge driven roots to the White House. She will then set about the task of winning the incumbency so by the time she finishes her second term, there will be a clamor by the American people to end redundant presidential term limits so as to let the people decide. Everything points to this: her steady ascendancy in the polls, her detailed plans, her genuine expertise, her uncanny ability to make the complex comprehensible, her trustworthiness and integrity, her remarkably skilled and extremely capable campaign and finally her boundless and electric energy that embodies the antithesis of "A Great Lady Never Rushes!" We will have dodged a criminal and found a Commander.
2
She tells lies and fibs about her past. That Cherokee bit was outrageous. I appreciate her expression of economic ideas and plans. Sounds and looks like schoolmarm. Has never been in charge of a large enterprise.
Bring on Gabbard. Let's hear more from her and the several governors who are running.
7
What exactly is wrong with sounding and looking like a “school marm”. Sounds like a bias (and fear) about the fact that she’s likely more educated and a lot smarter than you.
As is always the case with liberal schemes, taxing the rich to pay for them is problematic. Pretty soon the definition of rich begins to resemble the middle class. Nobody wins.
8
@Eyes Wide Open It was done under Eisenhower. The rich were highly taxed.
@Eyes Wide Open
Capital gains tax used to be as high as 35%. That's taxing the rich.
1
Are her brothers voting for her? I think two of the three identify as Republican?
If she wins the Democratic nomination, can she get them to campaign for her?
She'll have the support of Bernie if she is the nominee. And presumably Biden too.
2
I find it strange that this column generalizes election returns and anecdotes from select "working-class, white" communities in Massachusetts in order to predict opinions in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin for it lacks any polling data or voices from these states.
Why is this problematic? For one, working-class residents of Massachusetts have much better wages, working conditions, and rights to organize than those in the industrial states mentioned in the headline; the state ranks fourth in Oxfam's rankings of "Best States to Work In." (PA, MI, and WI rank 24th, 27th, and 38th respectively). This is despite having less people reporting at least high school level of education than in Wisconsin (and roughly equal amounts to the other two states). Massachusetts also ranks at the top in terms of health access.
No doubt there are working class people suffering in Massachusetts, but many are buffered by the booming state economy and worker protections that the other states lack and thus see less of a need for Warren's protective plans--they already have them.
Finally, I am a little baffled by the use of median house price in the article to characterize the "working-class" nature of the featured town of Rockland. Sure it is not in the luxurious range of Lexington, but $340,000 is not too shabby. While it is a high threshold for those who cannot buy into the market, many families have seen enormous growth in wealth as homeowners over the last few decades.
6
Many of the perhaps 8 million Americans abroad have a deep distrust of Senator Warren. As victims of invasive FATCA regulations and citizenship-based taxation, middle-class Americans abroad are treated like tax cheats and subjected to double taxation and invasive reporting, even if they owe no tax. They have come to suspect that Warren's plan to tax wealth will soon (or eventually) trickle down to much lower thresholds, once the mechanisms are in place. Other countries have tried wealth taxes where taxation started at about $1m. A wealth tax also makes those imposing it suspicious of anyone daring to move abroad. Warren's team has floated taxation of 40% of net worth for those moving abroad, as if in the 21st century one could not want to live in France or Argentina or Thailand... Aren't Americans supposed to be free? Turns out, not so much, if you want to leave. All this is too bad, since Warren is probably sincere and competent. But she's scaring this group of voters away.
4
@Bluestar is this really a constituency to worry about?
There is no "Warren paradox." White, working-class voters know a complete phony when they see one. Warren appeals only to two general constituencies: (a) "Victims" looking for a handout; and (b) Affluent "elites" who sole animating characteristics are a pathological need to feel superior to everyone else and the desire to impose their will on inferiors "for their own good."
She has no appeal to self-reliant people who work and simply want the government to stay out of their way.
Trump in 2020!
9
@Red the white working class are so smart/ they can do anything except get a better job, educate their children, and stay off of deadly, addicting drugs.
@Red
Ah, the good old self reliant people trope. So effective because it both poisons people against governance while helping them pat themselves on the back, even if everything is crumbling around them.
I'm sure you're so self-reliant you didn't avail yourself of mortgage tax credits and won't avail yourself of Medicare and SSN. Those are both massively redistributive, though somehow most people haven't figured that out yet. Or god forbid unemployment or disability. All redistribution.
I see your handle says Cleveland but rural areas are the biggest offenders, ah how self reliant of you to build your own highways, ensure electrical, telephone and mail service! And we know you'd never ever expect the government to make sure you get broadband. And the immigration system that makes sure you get doctors by allowing foreign doctors to only practice in rural areas. True story.
Then you pat yourselves on your backs for your self sufficiency, vote republican because sure they'll "leave you alone" while they line their pockets and tell you how rugged you are, while everyone else burns.
You all are awful.
Focussing on white guys without a college education is a fools errand for the Democratic Party. They are not up for grabs. Focussing on the Democratic Party base voters (i.e., people of color, women, college educated) is the best way to win back Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. A Democratic ticket focused on increasing voter turnout by exciting the party base with an agenda for real change, infused with genuine hope, that is what will matter to the citizens of Detroit, Milwaukee, Madison, Philadelphia and Pittsburg and that is where we should focus our efforts. It's the way Obama won. It's also the way to expand the Democratic map in Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina and Texas, a path that leads right through the metropolises of each of these states, not through some effort to win poorly-educated white guys in the inner-suburbs.
6
I respect Elizabeth Warren. She rose from a humble home to become a teacher then a lawyer then a United States Senator. Hey, she's accomplished the American Dream. She certainly wasn't given $10 Million by her father to "get started" like Trump. So hell yes, I'd vote for Warren over Trump any day of the week.
There are two big policies that I disagree with however. Number one, taking away millions of peoples private health insurance makes no sense, and number two, why should the taxpayers pay off all student debt? The system is broken, but if someone took on too much debt, I'm not sure we should pay it off.
But Warren's ideas on the environment, gun control, infrastructure, taxes, wage inequality, foreign policy, discrimination based on sexual orientation or race, immigration, education, and on and on and on are so far superior to Trumps that I wouldn't let two policy positions stop me from voting for her.
Warren would be an excellent president. Especially for the working class that she came from.
10
@thetruthfirst
But she did not grow up in a working class family. We've seen their suburban house. The fact that ONCE her father's job insecurity made her mother take a service sector job for a brief time does not qualify for this - especially in an boom-bust oil town where it's normal and there are many boom times (that don't get mentioned). Collecting S&H Greenstamps for a blender or whatever is not very compelling either. And when she didn't get that professional job she wanted she just "went to law school". Apparently, she was never really a teacher either. She temporally taught in a grade school as a student teacher or something using her degree in audiology, but never got a teaching certificate. I sure don't know. But I'm starting to think the reality is not the way she portrays it. Her policy positions at this point in time are great though.
1
the worst problem all Democrats face is the blinding coverage they get from all media and, which, too often they ignore in favor of listening to favored individuals who claim to know better. Often , people like Ms W will not reply to the medias pin-pricks because they know that answering one set of questions opens them up to more and deeper question and then they almost always end up-pretzel like-with both feet in mouth.
The truth is that too many of today's Democrats are way out on the far left of every serious issue and position in the US. There isn't a chance a gay mayor will be elected. The Socialist label would sink too many of Sanders votes. In fact, too many Democrats today seem to feel it is 1967 and they only have to respond to the party. In 67 & 68, had Democrats insisted LBJ run once more, Nixon would be a memory from the Eisenhower administration.
There are times when the middle of the road is the absolute safest place to be-and one that will take you anywhere you want to go. Go too far left and you just end stuck in the sand or trees.
3
Is the goal fighting the good fight for ideological purity even if it leads to crashing in defeat, and emboldening a second term of Trump? Or fielding a ticket that appeals to Democrats as well as enough voters who are not Democrats but altogether and equally decent people now having ever increasing second-thoughts about Trump? It’s one thing to rage against the dying of the light when all you’re doing is phoning it in. This is not a parlor game. Those of us old enough to remember what happens to the Adlai Stevenson’s, Henry Wallace’s and George McGovern’s of this world already know what will happen should Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders or one of their other left-wing competitors become the nominee. Curtains. FDR didn’t have to reckon with cable and the ‘net. A Biden/Klobuchar ticket is the demographic sweet spot for pulling independents and midwesterners in. Trump supplies all the passion needed meanwhile to induce a return to sanity.
How many of us in 2016 took our young children with us to watch us cast a vote for Hillary, telling them we want them to be able to live in an America where a woman can be elected president? While holding on to our dreams, we need to remain strategic. In order to once again become a city on the hill, we must first recapture the hill.
4
Completely right. Depressing that this voice is unique among the hundreds of comments posted.
It’s not her dress, nor her being a woman. It’s that her policies are designed for frantic applause from a geographic minority. Mathematically it’s a non-starter.
1
Even though her message is aimed at working class voters, they would rather have Joe Biden, whose policies are less favorable for the working class.
And more white women voted for Trump than for another white woman, after Trump was on tape gleefully bragging about his success in habitually sexually assaulting women.
It's the misogyny, stupid.
137
@Ann
I love Elizabeth Warren, and couldn't stand Hillary. I hope desperately Warren gets the nomination and crushes Trump.
But I can see it already: Warren, or Biden, or Bernie, or...will win the Democratic nomination and lose to Trump, and the Democrats will do everything but blame their candidate, her/his message, or the Democratic Party, or liberals in general. They will never, ever engage in self reflection.
"Americans are too misogynist to vote for a woman. They're too stupid to know the difference between real socialism and Bernie style socialism. They voted against their own interests! They're too bigoted to vote for a gay running mate. Russians! The Electoral College! Fox News!"
Anything but, "We're too out of touch and cultural obnoxious to appeal to enough voters!"
6
@Ann That's the attitude that lost Hillary the election and is going to burn Warren. Arrogance.
5
The man in the pick-up truck with an NRA sticker was never going to vote for Warren anyway - let alone a Democrat! That is the wrong demographic. If young people get off their butts and vote, she won't need 'NRA guy', who will vote for Trump no matter who wins the democratic primary.
4
Her policy priorities are those that appeal mostly to the white, upper and upper middle class population. How does cancelling student debt and free college tuition resonate with a poor African American family who have no hope that their kids will even make it to college because the racial inequities in public education have kept their kids in failing schools? How does solving the gender pay gap among high paid professionals resonate with people who have been shut out of those careers because of systemic racism? I, personally, don't want to hear her stories about how she pulled herself up with her bootstraps. She hasn't faced any of the obstacles encountered by the Americans she is trying to reach. She is inauthentic, and evasive, not answering any questions that might require real thought. She was at a town hall in Houston a couple of months ago and a teenage girl asked her a question about how she would deal with the water crisis in Flint, Michigan. Should have been easy for a woman with a plan for everything. No answer, revert to talking points about the rigged system.
2
Mostly the stupidity of others. That and maybe trusting that group of voters to think.
So sick of the term "white working class" when really the NYT just means white folks without a college degree.
3
@Tommy -- A Times columnist recently broke down what white working class means. Its true that the term is often a shorthand for whites without college degrees, but theres a significant group whites without college degrees who are not working in jobs involving traditional trades, physical labor, or low-wage jobs in retail or fast food service. They are small business owners and often quite hostile to both unions and blue collar workers. They are the group most likely to support Trump.
1
I think there's still a lot of resistance to women in positions of power in that group, plus I think there are aspects to her personality that could make her the butt of everything from jokes to conspiracy theories. I don't agree with any of that, it's just behavior I have observed in that demographic.
1
I've been searching for words to counter the men (and women) writing to say they don't "like" Warren (her voice, her hectoring manner, and other alleged problems).
Commenter Christopher Gray put it perfectly:
I think the more working people - who may not be following every turn of the news - get to know her, they'll like her. She's a likable, decent person who means well by them, and comes from them
****
A likable, decent person who means well by them, and comes from them.
***
That's exactly the impression Jan (my wife) and I had of her when we first saw her many years ago on Bill Moyers, and our affection and sense that "this is someone we'd be delighted to have a cup of coffee with" has only grown.
**
you who don't "like" her and think she's committing some terrible social crime in the photo: Would you like to try an experiment?
Seriously, no, don't rush, take a moment, pause, can you, are you willing to experiment with letting go of your preconceptions?
Here's how it works.
Before you go back to look at the photo, imagine you're at a town hall meeting. To your astonishment, the politician speaking to the folks gathered here is doing something you can't at first put your finger on, but gradually you realize - he's actually listening to what people are saying, and taking his time to reflect on it, assimilate it, before responding, clearly open to being wrong.
Now switch "he" for "she" & go back to the photo.
Can you see it in her expression?
She's listening.
3
“I can’t even listen to her. I just shut it off”
Exactly, that's exactly how I would expect people would respond to America's number one Hillary impersonator.
Like Hillary, their is absolutely nothing likeable about Warren. And like Hillary, she is a chameleon, but a bad one.
When it was convenient, she became an Indian. When it was convenient she collected large some of money from big givers - and then, when it was inconvenient, she took on the Deep Red Hue of AOC and became a Bolshevik - but, of course, she still has the money - just as a bad chameleon would.
Trump would annihilate Warren, if she were to run against him. Why? Because he is exceptionally good at running for office. Sure, he shouldn't be - but he is.
It's a miracle, but people step up to vote for Trump. If I could understand how that works, I would quit for my job and become a life insurance salesman; a particularly dishonest one, to be sure.
The woman thing? A disaster - it will work exactly as well for Warren, as it did for Hillary and Sarah Palin.
Trump has an immense stack of cash now. He was able to beat Hillary with one tenth the money she had, which leads to the obvious conclusion: Warren will be annihilated by Trump.
Who is better counts for nothing in an American election - it's all Vaping Fumes and Mirrors - nothing more.
10
Maybe catering to the misogynistic biases of working class white males isn’t really the answer. Maybe it isn’t even necessary for Democrats to win. It’s just possible that this kind of opportunistic pandering turns off more people than it attracts.
4
The Republicans just have to replay Liz's apology to the Cherokee Nation over and over.
It's not rocket surgery.
8
Ugh. An opinion piece about midwest voters based on some conversations with voters in a small Massachusetts town who generally don't like the candidate much due to sexism or a misunderstanding of her policies.
So...people are misogynists, uninterested in facts, or don't think it's fair to provide loan assistance to a new generation because they personally have already paid off their loans. Yet, it's Warren's job and the Democratic party's job to turn these people around. Next you'll expect Democrats to turn around the people at Trump's New Mexico rally who cheered for the Republican repeal of the estate tax!
Please stop publishing such useless "OMG she's a woman...critical vulnerability" pieces.
5
I’m a moderate Democrat.
I am greatly disappointed in the entire D field. As to Warren, the photo of her with he hand raised in answer to the question, “do you support elimination of private health insurance,” is a deal killer for me. Regardless of whatever critique one might level against our current health care insurance system, her stance is sheer political suicide and unfathomably idiotic. Can she not see the consequence of the polls showing voters are against her on this? Any D candidate should have the upper hand on health care, but if she is the nominee, this will be a liability for her in the critical states. Same with talking about decriminalizing border crossing. Trump is totally exposed on family separation and his silly wall, but she’d be forced to defend why lawbreakers should get a free pass. Bad policy, awful politics.
She has not learned the lesson from that great political philosopher John Lennon: “if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow.”
9
She's promising that Mexico's going to pay for medicare for all, and nobody in their right mind would believe that!
4
If they're like the white working class community I grew up in and among, Warren is way too smart, confident, and female for them to giver her a serious consideration. They resent anyone to whom they feel inferior.
5
Trump is a true "elite" and he's not doing anything for the working class except stirring up their racism and prejudices. The people who think Warren has an "authenticity problem" have a bias problem. Yes she's a woman. Get over it folks! Women like Warren have common sense, intelligence, and can school the ignorant ones like Trump.
Trump is the inauthentic populist. He has been enriching the wealthy and ignoring the needs of the working class. He pretends his big last tax cut was for the middle class but it didn't benefit them. Now he's offering up a "middle class tax cut" to bribe them for the 2020 election. These working class white folks need to do their research on the politicians and get the facts straight.
3
Warren's support among the white working class (33 %) is within the margin of error of Biden's (38) and that's a problem? Gimme a break!
2
Rick: it’s not a problem for her - it’s a massive problem for Democrats. Can’t when the Presidency with 60 disapproval by white male voters.
From the moment I saw and heard her (when Bernie was bubbling to the surface (for the 2016 elections) and thought to myself, "Why isn't she running instead of HC?" And, "If she ever runs for office, she's got my vote!"
2
I am German, but if I could, I would vote for Yang or Warren. Yang because he's the only one with viable solutions/idea and Warren because she's a woman, so yay the first female US president. Apart from Yang or Warren, I doubt the rest of the candidates could beat Trump.
Elizabeth Warren is only worthy of a great country. It's not her, it's us. We should be so fortunate to have her working for us. What a contrast that would be!
2
I really respect Ms. Warren, but I think we need someone like Klobuchar to bring home the Midwest and steamroll the criminal GOP out of existence.
2
@D. Wagner Polling at higher than 2% might be a good start.
4
@Dan B
Polling is useless. The majority of voters have not yet started to pay attention, so when they are cold called, they say whoever they have heard of: the old news in first, second and third place—none of whom has a hope of beating Trump.
Just for the record, we should also note that Liz literally "wrote the book" on the woes of the middle class. Actually, she wrote several, but you might want to start with "This Fight Is Our Fight: The Battle to Save America's Middle Class."
Geez guys, what more do you want her to do? Start wearing overalls and work boots?
1
A huge percentage of poorly educated lower class white working men do not like intelligent, educated and successful women like Elizabeth Warren. These men are a crucial part of Trump's base and they tend to be racist, sexist and totally immune from facts. Warren and Sanders are fighting for a fair deal for them but they love Trump, who gives a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich and major corporations and chump change for working people. Trump is happy to have a $7.50-an-hour minimum wage, constantly attacks unions, and still they love him. The Republican Party's long-term policy of undercutting public education and making it very hard to afford college has worked wonders for them.
1
@Tom Barrett
The key phrase in your comment is "working men".
Something that Democrats, liberals, and progressives just can't seem to get through their heads is the fact that a lot of working people, not just Republicans, vote for conservative candidates because:
1) They resent the fact that so many people have their hand out to the government, and it obliges them by giving them an easier financial existence than WORKING people...enough with the handouts, get to work!
2) They don't want to turn our country into another Latin American country (are there any of those that function anywhere near as well as we do?).
3) They want our government to control our borders, helping us to control our population. Overpopulation is at the core of so many of our problems, including poverty and climate change.
4) We need fair trade deals, even if it means paying a short-term cost. Is it fair to have a 65% tax on American wheat going to China, when they can import to the U.S. without any tax? How about a 28% import tax on American vehicles going to Germany, but only 1.4% on German vehicles coming to the U.S.? We have been subsidizing the world economy since WWII...time for that to end.
The Democrats address none of these issues. It's not that they dislike Warren or educated women, they hate their policies.
3
Somewhere there is a list of words and phrases that Trumpite think tanks have compiled. (Have we all read "Don't Think of an Elephant"?)
"Socialism" is near the top of the list, of course. "Taxes" is another curse word. "Open borders" is up there, as is "elitism." (Lewandowski sarcastically informing Barry Burke that, unlike Burke, he didn't have degrees from Duke and Harvard Law.)
Ms Warren is certainly aware of all this, as well as of the absurdity of presidential debates winding up mired in Pocahontas, etc blather. But crazy as it is, who's our next president could very well be determined by how such cheap shots are dealt with or not dealt with.
Trump's "sleepy Joe" and "Pocahontas" labels somehow stick, whereas it doesn't seem to matter what Trump gets called: slime doesn't stick to slime.
After receiving a couple of cheap shots, I think Ms. Warren is capable of handling this. I don't want to waste my time on "Pocahontas" or "swift boat" trash, so I really hope that Warren's people come up with 15-second responses to the trash talk items.
Maybe start here: "But I knew my father’s family didn’t like that she was part Cherokee and part Delaware. So my parents had to elope." (This is Warren.)
My own family, though we certainly appear "white," said to me a couple of times that we could, of course, have Afro-American ancestors somewhere in our genealogy, and that if we found out who they were, that this might very well turn out to be something to be proud of.
Elizabeth Warren is a very weak candidate against Trump.Progressives should stop trying to convince themselves and and the rest of us that she can win. She is scary to wife middle class and Midwestern Americans and older upper middle class white Democrats like myself. she does not have the support of African American voters. What she does have is the support of New York Times readers, especially those who comments on opinion pieces, who remain oddly oblivious to the mood and norms of the country. stop telling me that Europeans would considered her policy is mainstream. Guess what,you're not in Europe. Here's a hint. Europeans uniformly despise Donald Trump and find our gun laws and attitudes bizarre.
8
Again with the Warren bashing by the mainstream media. I don’t get it. It’s almost as if the NYTimes WANTS Trump to be reelected.
Listen up: Let the primary process play out. Ms. Warren will be hitting the road in the upper Midwest soon enough. Give the voters there some respect. They can listen as well as we can on the coasts. I have no doubt that this bright capable woman can deliver a message that will resonate with the voters there. And if not, well, some other candidate WILL.
There is absolutely no need for pearl clutching and fainting couches at this juncture.
3
Anyone who runs on a platform of decriminalizing illegal border crossings will lose. As they should.
3
@Roberta I think this is one of the most poorly misunderstood things out there. It doesn't mean that there is no more border, nor does it mean that it is permissible to cross the border without proper documentation. It means that improperly crossing the border is not a criminal offense, but a civil one. This saves us the trouble of prosecuting someone for a crime, punishing them in jail, and then deporting them. It just goes straight to a deportation proceeding.
1
@Dan B
In other words, any way you can across the border is fine. Referring to illegal crossing as a civil offense is basically meaningless: it means they cant be deported, only fined. And none of these poor people have any money anyway, so there will be no fines. Bottom line: Open borders.
2
The young mother featured here wasnt excited about college debt forgiveness. She had gone to technical school and paid her loans. Only 1/3 of Americans report having a college degree; this "plan" may leave many thinking they've been forgotten again.
3
The author understates Warren's weakness.
Warren lags behind Biden and Sanders among working class whites, but she lags even further behind them among working class people of color.
Warren is fundamentally a candidate of white progressive-minded university educated professionals. Its a good group to have in your corner. They pay close and early attention to elections, they donate money, and they vote more reliably than any other demographic.
All of these considerations have so far benefitted Warren. Her campaign has been well funded and her base not only shows up in all likely voter models used by pollsters, but they have already formed preferences that they are able to share with pollsters.
The downside of this for Warren is that as the primaries approach and more working class voters check in, the more likely beneficiary will be Sanders whose support is probably already underestimated by the pollster's likely voter models.
Looking at the General Election, Warren is an especially poor pick. Biden and Sanders represent two paths to beating Trump. Biden's strategy is basically to win over enough moderate white suburban "swing" voters who voted for Trump in 2016 while Bernie's is to expand the electorate by exciting poor and working class folk of all colors who stayed home in 2016. Warren appears unlikely to be able to do either. She excites core Democratic constituencies who will be voting no matter who the nominee is but not anybody else.
2
@Christopher Biden has run for president many times and gotten nowhere. Sanders couldn't beat Hillary Clinton. Neither of them represents a path to beating Trump.
Well, maybe Biden does.
This is why it needs to be Biden/Warren. Hardly a dream team but they would get rid of the pestilence currently infesting the white house.
1
@William Thomas Oh dear, no.
I expect the dynamic to change completely once the Democrats have their nominee.
Donald Trump is a loser, a cheat and a bully whose greatest success in life was inheriting millions of dollars from his father and keeping his name in the paper. He was the star of his own reality show long before The Apprentice.
We have had time to absorb and digest the cravenness of the Republican party and Warren will have an advantage that Clinton didn't - where Hillary was cautious to a fault, Warren will be fearless, and if the Democrats remain united in their support, and the media do their job of continuing to expose Trump's fraudulence, I think we will reach a tipping point. It will be about the momentum, and Elizabeth Warren is on the upswing.
10
Only to a limited segment of the population. First, she’s a woman and then she what she’s saying makes sense. The barefoot and pregnant crowd ain’t supportive because of the former and any good Trump republican want’s nothing to do with the latter.
4
Sadly:
"There is nothing people hate worse than a good example."
Mark Twain
131
@Econfix
Bingo!
1
In her “Medicare for all” plan, without private insurance, how does Elizabeth Warren decide who goes to the doctor with a degree from Johns Hopkins and who goes to the doctor with a degree from Trump University?
When in Afghanistan with John McCain a few years ago, she asked the Generals “what does winning look like”? They couldn’t answer, so she thinks we should leave. Maybe that’s the right move but not based on that question. There is no winning with terrorism and there is, unfortunately no country of Afghanistan any longer. There is nothing to win. There is only the path that keeps Americans and the people that live in that space as safe as possible. I don’t know what it is, but it involves the United States and it has nothing to do with winning.
3
I honestly don’t think Elizabeth Warren can win Michigan at this point. It’s possible that as the Democratic nominee she would be in a better position to change the perception voters have of her, but right now she’s way out of line with the Michigan voters Democrats need to pick up. If the Democrats want to win Michigan, they have to win Kent County and the Grand Rapids metro area. I live there and the vast majority of the suburban middle to upper middle class are political moderates that lean right because they are fiscally conservative and very Christian Reformed (it’s a very unique Christian denomination). These are the people that generally reluctantly voted for Trump or Johnson in 2016 and are still huge supporters of Justin Amash.
Democrats can definitely pick them up and I don’t think the moderate candidates will have any issues whatsoever doing so. As long as the Democratic candidate doesn’t want to raise taxes on upper middle class too much, allows Christian schools and non-profits to do their thing, gives up on the free 4-year college initiative unless small Christian private colleges can get in on that (we have a lot of those), is careful about how they frame their pro-choice arguments, and focus on keeping the Great Lakes healthy, they’ll be golden. They especially should talk about the Great Lakes. Some people here may not understand climate science, but everyone loves the Great Lakes.
4
@Alexandra U
I don't know the Grand Rapids area well; I've been there of course - but I'm struck by your comment of the Great Lakes.
I think you make a strong point. I hope Democratic candidates will listen. The Lakes are a magnificent and priceless resource, and they belong to us all.
Regardless of party we must work together to protect them.
3
I am a white, working-class, male voter from Wisconsin. Elizabeth Warren is not struggling to get my support. She is clearly the best Democratic candidate. She knows what's wrong and knows what needs to be done to fix it.
While Mr. Starobin's concerns regarding her potential difficulties seem reasonably calculated, one can reasonably calculate difficulties for any candidate.
There surely are people like the woman who thinks it's unfair that someone would get help from student loan relief when she didn't. But this isn't a problem for Warren; it's a problem with the woman's reasoning. it's exactly the kind of thinking that impedes progress for the entire nation. It's the kind of thinking that makes people Trump voters.
Maybe she thinks we should bring back slavery. It's not fair that black Americans are free when their ancestors were not. Why should I get life-saving cardiac care when it wasn't available to my grandfather. This nation can ill-afford any more of that kind of thinking. It's destroying us.
Warren can beat Trump. Warren is the best Democratic candidate. Any of the Democratic candidates can beat Trump. Any would be an improvement.
The problems for a Warren candidacy will be the same as the problems any Democratic candidate will face: ignorance and greed.
I could never have predicted Trump's election in 2016. I'll be surprised if he is reelected. If he is, America deserves him.
6
As all of the quotes from the working class folks in this piece amply demonstrate, many people without college degrees are by definition low information voters. Warren would have to be willing to constantly lie to their faces to get their votes, as Trump did in the 2016 election.
3
I have had this argument with a friend of mine who is a big Warren fan, and he feels like she would win the rust belt due to her economic messages. Yet the polling doesn't show that, and I've known for a long time it hasn't backed that claim since the rust belt is older, whiter, and not progressive. Mostly my argument is how it's not progressive, and they don't see loan forgiveness as good issue for example. I would even question medicare for all since some do like their own private plan, seriously, and the issue to fund it is a problem. I understand the argument how your lower costs will offset an increase in taxes, but it's needs to be solidified with some good numbers instead of generalities like we saw last week in the debate.
I digress, but my friend is a college educated liberal, and that is who Warren is winning. She is struggling with working class voters, and honestly I can see her struggling with moderates and independents as well. If the path didn't include the rust belt, it wouldn't be a huge concern, but it does. Trump can win again with a mediocre or low turnout in the rust belt for Democrats, and I struggle seeing Warren getting over that hump.
9
@Patrick Anderson Remember: Obamacare was supposed to lower costs by $2,500 per family. Instead, costs went up and quality went down. So how does Warren somehow get voters to fall for it again?
3
@Liberty hound Mexico was going to pay for the wall.
I listened to Warren on TRMS last evening.
Her 2 percent annual wealth tax on those who own more than $50 million narrowly targets the top 0.1 percent — and her plans to use that money to help families with child care, preschool, and free college — seems like a good way to address inequality.
But I would be careful in subsidizing all aspects of child care and education with no moderating mechanism.
No one says much about it — but the working class Trump voter feels that it was the US welfare program since the 1960’s that resulted in so many single-parent children, with no father in sight. This, then, led to a multi-generational breakdown in the understanding of what it means to be a family — one with each child being raised by both parents together. On that pint, talking variously about record players and young mothers not quite knowing what to do — Biden was correct last Thursday.
So, on Warren’s plan — with even more subsidies for having children in order to get free stuff from the government, now with more free child care, preschool, education — how do you prevent an amplification of this family-structure breakdown problem? How do you require fathers to take responsibility for the children they cause to be born?
Put a cap on the welfare?
Two kids per mother and that’s it?
Require a father in the home to get the subsidies?
These Warren subsidies will just lead to a wider expansion of fatherless children on the welfare rolls.
7
@Toms Remember when President Obama promised to tax "millionaires, billionaires, and corporate jet owners"?
Instead, individuals who made more than $250,000 got hit with a 3.6% Obamacare Surcharge on their income tax. That hit an awful lot of New Yorkers who weren't "millionaires, billionaires, and corporate jet owners" pretty hard
1
One woman is struggling with the very same voters the last woman struggled with. Easy math. And if those voters are essential to winning the election, the Democrats can either take the plunge and try to shove her down those voters' throats like last time or face reality, decide this election has to be won to save the country from the current menace squatting in our White House, hold their noses, and nominate someone who will win. I voted for HRC and would definitely vote for Warren in a heartbeat. She deserves to win, even if she were running against a human being and not Trump. But the country must be saved. Maybe in a better and brighter future time the candidate's gender won't matter, but the present reality can't be ignored.
6
Here is one reason to feel cautious about Warren: reports that she was a registered Republican before 1996. Is this untrue? If so, I would love it, for I find it hard to generate enthusiasm about someone who voted for Reagan, the man who broke the air traffic controllers’ union in his first action as president. This may be part of why “Ms. Warren is afflicted by an authenticity problem with these voters.” At least with Bernie Sanders, we know his lifelong convictions have been pretty consistent, and Biden has shown an analogous stability.
Trump is a horrible man and a horrible president, and he’s shown himself to be a terrifically shrewd, self-serving politician. I’m afraid that Warren’s inconsistency could prove to be fodder for the Republicans and their leader.
5
@A 1996 is a long time ago, and the story of her conversion is widely available. She taught and researched bankruptcy law, and came to realize that most bankruptcies weren't the result of irresponsible spending or laziness, but medical catastrophes. There's no inconsistency. It was almost twenty-five years ago.
10
That is not what her research showed.
Can anyone doubt that ever more exposure of Donald Trump's personal and political corruption can only be a good thing for a Warren candidacy?
2
To me, the best candidate to win is the one who is where the voters are
Polls show that a large majority of voters support a buy-in to medicare or medicaid. This idea is being promoted by Amy Klobuchar on her website as well as supporting the Green New Deal, and Buttigieg and Biden also refer to a medicare-like public option. Buttigieg calls it "Medicare for All who want it"
More than 75% of all voters support the buy-in idea. Thus, it can help a candidate win the general election and can get done. In addition, 2/3 of democrats say they prefer this idea
https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/
In contrast, when abolishing private insurance is mentioned, Warren's and Sander's proposals do not poll well at all and poll at around 40%, If taxes are mentioned, support drops further
Although she is passionate about her ideas and authentic in that way, I feel that she knows very well that Medicare for All, can't pass the Senate anytime soon, and that if elected, she would likely be passing the very proposal being promoted by moderates - a buy-in
In fact, her supporters, that I have talked to, say they fully expect her to evolve to the more moderate position
They are counting on it
So, do they really believe in her, or do they support who they think she will become?
I think it is this contradiction, not her education, that creates some of the larger issues with the perception of authenticity
6
I think what people are missing is that the public option will either be just as expensive as private insurance (see history of high risk pool) or will be cheaper and drive private insurers out of the market. I do think the Medicare for All crowd would do better to lay off talk about abolishing private insurance, and think more about how to make irrelevant.
5
@AACNY
Her supporters seem to be counting on her changing, so maybe someone should call her out on this sooner than later, so we can see where she stands, for sure
Delaney tried to point out the facts of public opinion, and she cleaned his clock. I think someone should see how she reacts today.
1
Warren is a horror. She can never win against Trump. I don't want to read any articles about her -- I don't like her. Besides that, many comments are TOO LONG and I will not read them. I like the shorter comments. Some people just can't stop talking!!
2
"If Democrats can increase turnout among African-Americans voters in 2020, that would help counterbalance any weakness among white working class voters."
Really? So white working class voters get to vote however they choose or not vote at all but black people are expected to march like zombies to the voting stations and vote for the Democratic nominee no matter what (that "shut up and vote" thing again). What about the "weakness" among black voters? Doesn't that matter to Democrats? I call foul on this disparate treatment.
How about Warren and the other Democratic candidates actually craft a message that appeals to white voters, black voters, all Democratic voters really, so ALL of us can participate in the election process and feel that our interests are met.
6
It sounds to me that these people are just regurgitating Fox news/Trump/GOP talking points and wouldn't vote for any democratic candidate. She has the additional burden of being a woman seeking a leadership position. Old habits die hard.
5
I’m sorry but if you vote for Trump at this point over any of the democratic candidates on stage recently you are not a moderate.
13
Gee, another in a series of NYT "opinions" written to scare progressives from fielding a progressive candidate. Is this clickbait or does the NYT believe a "safe" Biden presidency would be better for their finances? Where is the other side? Your readers sure seem to refute that logic strongly when they point out the enthusiasm gap which could spell defeat if we don't get a progressive at the top of the ticket. 2018 showed that Democrats can win even in red states if they present a strong progressive case such as Medicare for all, free state college tuition, and taxing the ultra rich to pay for them. Warrren has plans that include how they are paid for. What is wrong with that? The chance to pull voters from Trump's base is nonexistent. We need OUR base to show up. That includes you Bernie supporters too. And we don't need a Jill Stein type spoiler either.
6
I'd be more inclined to support her cause if she hadn't gamed the system herself claiming affirmative action privileges she wasn't really qualified for. Trump would eat her alive on the campaign trail. The Democrats can do better.
7
She didn’t!!!
She never claimed nor received any affirmative actions benefits, she did claim and have shown that there were native Americans in her bloodline (a-bit awkwardly), but she never claimed to have maintained tribal relations as would be required for said benefits.   
Anyone who can't stand to listen to Elizabeth Warren speak (especially when what she says is based on fact, not fiction) but is happy to listen to the musical tones uttered by Donald Trump is obviously a misogynist and would vote for any non-female crook before voting for a woman.
15
Oh, please. The guy who has 'a National Rifle Association sticker affixed to the back windshield' of his car isn't going to vote for Biden, Bernie, Castro, Mayor Pete, Booker, Harris, or even Amy Klobuchar either. It's that kind of faux analysis that led to the nomination and defeat of Hillary Clinton.
10
The difference between Republicans and Democrats has become this: Republicans form their policies first (regardless of how unappealing they might seem, such as tax cuts for the wealthy), and then tirelessly and fearlessly craft concise and effective marketing, and push the messaging to successfully sell it to "swing voters." Contrast that with Democrats, who look at opinion polls as the determinant of their policies (not necessary what is actually best and not necessarily what will actually work). The result is Republicans are able to successfully sell seemingly unpopular ideas, while the spineless and listless Democrats decide to cut and run before even trying, and settle on whatever winds that the polls blow.
The funny thing is, whatever policies that Democrats propose, no matter how much (more) they move to the center, Republicans will still label Democrats as Socialist and attack them as such in the campaign.
4
@Joe Arena
Every Dem in the debates raised their hand in support of Medicare for Illegal Immigrants. Every Dem in the debates, and in the venue, cheered when Beto came out in favor of Mandatory Gun Confiscation.
The Republicans don't have to even lift a finger to label Dems.
4
The “center” has moved so far right that neither Nixon or Regan could be elected.
Trump supporters are never going to vote for a woman, let alone a Democrat. To interview Trump's core and thus conclude she would lose swing votes is bad journalism. Why not speak to 2016 Bernie voters who either didn't vote for Clinton, didn't vote for Jill Stein, or didn't vote at all in 2016 who plan to vote for the Democrat in 2016?
Trump won swing states by about 65,000 votes. That is the narrow margin that needs to reject Trump in 2020 which shouldn't be that difficult to achieve. Biden is a white male Republican lite. Warren is not a status quo candidate and should appeal strongly to the swing voters in the swing states who either voted for Trump or stayed away from Clinton in 2016 and have witnessed America under Trump since.
3
Lets face it - white parental figures seem to be America’s longing; and in the last election Trump represented what I would call Rich Uncle Syndrome.
America wants to know that they are safe. Why? Because they are not and a woman, historically, does not fit that myth.
2
Warren says Medicare for All but will go to Medicare for All Who Want It (Public Option). And:
"Decriminalize migration and refocus enforcement on serious criminal activity. Entering the country without authorization has always been a violation of civil immigration law, but thanks to a former segregationist Senator, it’s also a criminal violation. This additional criminal provision is totally unnecessary for border security, and for a century, it was rarely enforced. But since the early 2000s, it has been used to build and sustain a massive immigration detention complex. In 2016, over half of all federal criminal prosecutions were for immigration violations — more than prosecutions for terrorism, organized crime, hate crimes, or financial fraud. This obsessive focus ties up federal prosecutors and overwhelms federal courts. It’s costly and unnecessary. And under Trump, it has become increasingly abusive. We should repeal this criminal prohibition to prevent future abuse. As president, I will immediately issue guidance to end criminal prosecutions for simple administrative immigration violations; end Operation Streamline, which subjects migrants to mass prosecutions; and refocus our limited resources on actual criminals and real threats to the United States. I will also issue prosecutorial guidance to prioritize immigration cases with security concerns, and make sure government attorneys are properly exercising their discretion for individuals who pose no public safety risk.
2
@me For all commenters who don't know or misstate Warren's immigration policy, please read it in her own words! The above is the first and most important part of it.
1
Yes, she has a critical vulnerability. Its called Medicare for All. Middle class costs will go down but their taxes will go up is not something anyone, especially Warren, can sell. Not to mention, supply and demand still exist. What happens when you increase the demand on anything but fail to increase the supply. You either see price increases or rationing. Has to be one or the other and if you rule out price increases, then you assure rationing. She has no chance of winning in the General.
6
I don't think many of today's so-called "Republicans" and so-called "evangelicals" would accept any sane person as their President. There's just no one running for the Dems who is crazy and nasty enough to appeal to them.
8
The Cherokees are now seeking the congressional delegate promised them in the treaty of 1835. Warren will have to support this, of course. Despite this, it will be Tulsi Gabbard who has greater support by Cherokees and other Native American tribes. It's all about authenticity.
7
Donald Trump will be reelected for four more years to dismantle our democracy, if Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders is the Democratic nominee.
An overwhelmingly BLUE state Democrat is not going to win the election. Shade the descriptions of the individuals running for the nomination in whatever color you choose. The result is staring us in the face.
To all the voters that are registered as Democrats:
Vote for the person, who like President Obama, can EXPAND the democratic vote...and has the energy/appeal to do it.
Mayor Pete is the red state candidate that won his last election (after announcing he was gay) by 80%. Take the time to LISTEN to one of his non-scripted speeches.
Vote for FREEDOM, not hate.
3
While I love Mayor Pete, and maybe he could be elected, at this point in his career, he would be less effective than President Obama was. Mayor Pete for VP, then for P.
This article is way overdue. Elizabeth Warren may have great policy positions (like Bernie Sanders, say), but if she is seen as false, hypocritical or untrustworthy she'll never get the vote of the less-educated, common person who uses these character traits heavily to evaluate polticians. And the peope of her own state should know her best, in this regard. Unlike the case with Bernie, the voters of her state seem to have major reservations with her candidacy now. The fact that she apparently pretended to run for a full second term in the senate while gearing up (e.g. amassing money) for a presidential run, as Hillary did in NY, did not probably go unnoticed by the people of MA to whom she made promises, commitments and took money.
14
@carl bumba Can you get any more "false, hypocritical or untrustworthy" than Trump and the current Congressional GOP? I can understand why some white working class Americans voted for Trump in 2016, but if they vote for him again, they deserve all the pain and anguish that he and his lifetime appointments to the Supreme Court will be causing them and their kids and grand kids for the next couple of generations. Unfortunately, the rest of us who see Trump for the treasonous liar and fake Christian he is, and who prop-up most of the red states with our blue state taxes, will have to live with the ensuing disaster as well.
@Cowboy Marine
Why take a chance when there other Democrats with higher levels of perceived integrity, like Bernie or Biden?
Democrats still don't seem to appreciate that many Trump supporters don't take his statements literally. They read between the lines of his hyperbole and take his viewpoint seriously and worthy of their trust. THEY (and this is who matters) feel that he has largely fulfilled his major promises to them. In strange contrast, the clearly privileged, Harvard professor, who pretends otherwise, seems more false than Donald Trump to them.
1
Biden has more integrity than Warren? You can't be serious. Do they not have the internet where you live?
I wondered why working class Americans think a billionaire shark from New York gives a damn about them. Then I figured it out. Trump offers a vehicle for resentment, coupled with one's aspirations. The people on his TV show or at Trump "University" weren't looking to make the world a better place. They agreed that everything is rigged, nothing is fair and you have to get what you can get. Trump has the added advantage of dumbing everything down because he has no choice.
13
@JR
You severely under-estimate the Democratic Party's role in all of that. West Virginia illustrates the problem. Thirty years ago it WAS a Democratic state, but after three decades of the Democrats offering only rhetoric to blue collar and lower middle class voters while voting the interests of their corporate donors (NAFTA, repeal of Glass-Steagall, the list is far too long to recount here), it is now ruby red. An ostensibly progressive party taking a state of unionized coal miners and blue collar laborers and flipping it red could only have been accomplished by a big time sell-out of its constituents. And in 2016, more of the Rust Belt showed signs of flipping as well. Bernie's great crime in the eyes of the Democratic establishment has been in forcefully and repeatedly pointing this out. If the party continues to offer those voters nothing iof substance, they will continue to gravitate to the xenophobic and racist siren songs of the Republican far right.
3
@JR. I’m sure you, too, have become a billionaire.
1
Warren always seems to be a bomb thrower, when she was a right winger or now that she is a left winger.
Always cock sure of herself when on the right, and now on the left.
DNA testing is racism.
Taxpayer Forgiving college loads is clearly unfair to those of us who worked to pay off our college loans, did not go to college,
or were more careful with our money.
When she speaks she seems always on the brink of a nervous breakdown
10
@David
At the very least, the credit rating damages to those of us that have paid off most, but not all, of our student loans should be repaired if full debts are going to be waived.
3
@David
Her plans will never see the light of day, definitely not with Republicans controlling the Senate.
3
@carl bumba don't forget to pick up that cancellation of indebtedness (COD) income on your tax return for the waived loan balance...
I certainly have seen this happen: someone who is intelligent and who works really hard to work things out is often rejected as elitist and is not even listened to. If Warren gets the nomination, she MUST choose a hard fighter as her running mate. Specifically it must be somebody whom the working class will see as a fighter. Sanders might be seen as an incisive debater with sharp ripostes by intellectuals, but most of America's working class would see him as a highbrow. Of the Democratic candidates for Vice President (only Biden, Warren, and Sanders are realistically candidates for President), Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar are the best fighters. Of those two, Klobacher has real rapport with working class Americans.
3
Do you know who also would have difficulty winning back working class votes in the Rust Belt? Joe Biden. Biden's entire political career has been in repudiation of the interests of labor and in the service of the party's corporate donors -- NAFTA, the TPP, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the 1994 Omnibus Crime Bill, the bankruptcy "reform" that made it harder to discharge credit card debt and just about impossible to discharge student debt -- which he has not just voted for but in most cases helped to shepherd through the Senate. Those policies were why the Rust Belt went for Trump in 2016 and, even though Trump has done nothing for them, it is insanity to think they would now blithely go back to that kind of status quo. Neoliberalism is killing the party. It has to get back to its New Deal roots, which only Bernie can do.
4
If people are going to begrudgingly vote for Warren, that point can be used by pretty much all other candidates: it doesn't matter who, trump is going to lose anyway. It makes this primary the de facto general. If people are settling on Warren or are afraid to support a dream candidate of theirs because of the 'unlikelihood' of them winning, they have got the idea of democracy wrong.
3
@Mike
I wish - but Trump still has 85% support among republicans. Since democrats make up less than 1/3 of all voters, we will need the support of moderates and independents in swing states. They don't tend to be, on average, as liberal as democrats and even among democrats, less than half 45% refer to themselves as liberals. This is probably why Bernie lost the primary to Hillary by 2 million votes. There are simply far more moderates, even in the Democratic Party.
3
Warren may be struggling with white non-college educated voters because they suffer from an information gap. They don't acknowledge that Trump has decimated American farming communities (through tariffs and immigration policies that limit access to seasonal labor). They don't read the economic forecast that his tariffs will create a huge job loss (possibly 900K) if he wins in 2020. That many jobs, in fact, have been lost because of Trump tax policy and tariffs. The manager with the tech school degree seems unaware that Warren will create opportunities for women like her. Will inforce consumer protection in the financial arena. Housing policy. Clean air! What a shame. Ignorance and misogyny.
6
@winchestereast. No, farming communities have not been decimated. And no, tariffs won’t create a huge job loss - companies going overseas did that.
3
Yeah, they didn't really take to the last White woman who worked her way out of a Republican middle-class background either. Of course, that was her fault, as it will be Warren's.
We could hope the Black women who voted for HRC in those 3 states browbeat their husbands into going out and voting in 2016, even if a woman is the candidate.
1
@David F
"We could hope the Black women who voted for HRC in those 3 states browbeat their husbands into going out and voting in 2016, even if a woman is the candidate."
According to the latest data Blacks marry less, later, and get divorced earlier and more frequently than whites or hispanics. The Black community for all intents and purposes is a sing;e-parent matriarchy.
Unless, you know, data is racist. Then everything is hunky-dory.
1
Democrats should really nominate an outsider businessman who will address the scourge of illegal immigration. That's electable!
4
she lied about her heritage to gain admission to college and to get tenure.
while there's far worse things in the world, this should preclude her from the top leadership position in the world.
and while i'm glad she agree's with my idea to cancel ALL student-loan-debt to boost to the u.s. economy and end the student-loan-pyramid-scheme, overall, this woman is un-American and would do better in another country.
America is NOT a democratic-socialist tax-&-spend welfare state, that's one of the reasons we're #1 in the world.
not sure why this person believes they'd be a good candidate or good leader, there's nothing in her life that would confirm such.
5
Somebody's got some 'splaining to do.
The latest Florida Atlantic Poll: "FAU Poll Finds Warren Cutting Into Biden’s Lead in Florida, Where Trump Narrowly Leads in Matchups with Democrats"
https://business.fau.edu/departments/economics/business-economics-polling/bepi-polls/bepi-polls-2019/warren-cutting-into-bidens-lead-in-florida.php
MSN.COM: "U.S. Factory Output Rises More Than Forecast in Broad Gain"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/us-factory-output-rises-more-than-forecast-in-broad-gain/ar-AAHqMSk
Reuters: "U.S. housing starts, building permits scale 12-year high"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-housingstarts/u-s-housing-starts-building-permits-race-to-12-year-high-idUSKBN1W31LF
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. homebuilding surged to more than a 12-year high in August as both single- and multi-family housing construction accelerated, suggesting that lower mortgage rates were finally providing a boost to the struggling housing market."
1
Before we start analyzing Elizabeth Warren who is not a criminal we need to have answers for the criminal who is currently the POTUS.
Americans need to know how a corrupt, guilty criminal like Trump can remain in office.
The other is the fact that 50% of Americans don't bother to vote for a POTUS. What does that say about elections?
Also the Neanderthal Electoral College that needs to be abolished or at the very least be brought into the 21st century.
7
@Hal. Do elaborate on what crimes you have discovered. And apparently you are clueless about doing away with the Electoral College. You in Illinois wouldn’t even need to vote.
Incredible. Everyone anti-Warren quoted here dislikes her because "she's for open borders," or simply can't stand her because she's a woman, or worries that "she'll tax me" while claiming to support Trump "for delivering on his promise to create more jobs." For lack of a less derogatory way of phrasing it, she's opposed by voters who are sexist, xenophobic, and stupid enough to believe that Trump is better for them -- and yet the author is somehow trying to argue that SHE has a problem with these voters not finding her "genuine" or "authentic" enough. It's pretty clear that these voters are going to support Trump over her for reasons that she cannot possibly affect, and that rather than a futile effort to persuade them, she needs to continue broadening her support among those who actually are open to logical persuasion.
6
None of these folks on the democratic stage have a prayer, ever so pathetic since DJT isn an easy target. Reparations, student loan forgiveness, amnesty and health care for illegals...they all come with massive baggage that is so needless as they try to out-progressive one another.
7
Even if "Elizabeth Warren Have a Critical Vulnerability?
Even is "she has struggled with white, working-class voters like those important to winning Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin so what? TURNOUT will settle this contest. Chasing the mythical Obama-Trump no college. blue collar voter is a fools errand.
3
@Dr. Pangloss
Yes, but whom will they vote for in those states?
The author surmises that Warren lacks appeal to the objectively darkest and worst devils of our society's nature (the clueless, the misogynist, the resentful, and the willfully ignorant), and then assigns all those characteristics to the "white working class" and puts them on a pedestal as the gatekeeper demographic for our country.
That's misguided and downright insulting on so, so many levels.
5
All horse race, all the time.
You'd think, after 2016, The Times would focus on candidate qualifications and the substance of issues.
4
@Eric Blair
Why? 2016 proved none of that matters
Warren will be unelectable exactly for this reason: Middle America feels disenfranchised but they are not stupid enough to believe Peter Pan Politics. They know she is a tax and spend liberal leftist who will drive the deficits even deeper and ultimately raise taxes on the middle class to pay for her multi trillion per year plans for everything
Trump would crush her. It will be a replay of Nixon v McGovern Dems will lose in 2020 if they allow the left wing (25% of electorate ) tail wag the dog.
5
Articles like these are dumb. EVERYTHING about Elizabeth Warren says she is one the side of the working class and middle class.
1. Medicare for all (if Congress gives it to her)
2. Small campaign donations
3. A compelling "up by her bootstraps" bio
4. Taxing the very richest of the rich to provide child care, free education and healthcare
5. An anti-corruption plan against the rot in our govt.
What else do you want? A white male?
6
@Susan WHen it comes to winning elections, I don't think it matters much everything says someone is on the side of the working and middle class. What matters is how the candidate is perceived by a group of people who may have some prejudices. I am not saying I agree with this, but I think it exists.
1
"For example, in a Fox survey, she drew 33 percent of white, non-college respondents in a matchup against President Trump, versus 38 percent for Joe Biden and 37 percent for Bernie Sanders."
Cutting through the PC - the "paradox" is because she is a woman.
2
@Stovepipe Sam. Always great to play the gender card, right? Did you learn that from Hillary?
Read Madeline Albright's recent book on fascism and it will be crystal clear what could happen should Trump win in 2020. Warren is the full package - a fighter, smart and full of ideas. This blather about the Native American heritage thing is nothing more than pure distraction. The problems and challenges facing the country are so numerous and complicated there needs to be a person who can reset the political dynamic in the country - and she is it. She will be the nominee and she will win and I predict she will be the best President since FDR.
5
@jasonwlevine. She will get nothing done just like her career in the Senate.
1
Senator Warren has zero credibility. A ticket with her on the ticket leaves us vulnerable to another four years of trump.
3
Yet another article claiming that Democrats need to cater to the narrow views of an uneducated, unaccomplished, resentful, and destitute segment of the population...a segment which for the better part of the past 30 years has blindly and willingly voted against their own interests.
"But we need them in order to win the swing states and win over moderates" I can hear some of you saying. Not buying it. If a con-man like Trump can win over these same voters with extremism such as by calling Mexicans rapists, calling for mass deportations, getting Mexico to pay for the wall, praising dictators among all of his other antics, while simultaneously in office acting specifically against these segments with massively unpopular tax cuts for the wealthy, then the problem for Democrats has nothing to do with their policies. Instead, their problem resides in being able to communicate clearly and concisely, and persuading those segments of the population with constant re-enforcement of why their policies are superior. In other words, it's a communication problem that they have.
What a sad, sorry, spineless party the Democrats have become. This party has no grit and no backbone.
4
If Democrats insist on a perfect candidate the Republicans will win every time.
2
Let’s face it...when Democrats vote, Democrats win. There are more of us then the GOP...but they vote lock step....while we wash our hair or cry over purity. They show up and vote as they are told. They don’t think. We on the other hand read garbage like this and then go out and repeat it...the GOP owns the framing franchise. What’s the matter with Kansas?
1
The problem is that these voters don’t realize that Trump is actually their enemy and not their friend. It amazes me how Trump resonates with the very group of people that he is dissing in his Presidency: the white working class. It’s as if they are in denial and don’t see the obvious. It’s a bizarre situation and I don’t quite understand it. People who envy those who they feel didn’t play by the rules are themselves short sighted. What does it matter? Are you really that petty? It reminds me of the Wall St guys who called all those people deadbeats because they couldn’t pay their subprime loans.
3
The elephant (no political pun intended) in the room is that she’s a woman. Many of these uneducated people see politics in a simplistic manner. They don’t question outrageous lies and associate being tough with masculinity. Fox and Trump know that and they will continue to poison the well.
2
@Daniel B. Sure, that’s why the elect female governors.
2
I think what a lot of folks want is to stop the fighting between the 'tribes'. Yes I saw Morning Joe today. You know the country does best when it is at peace, I hear my more "Progressive" mates in the Democratic Party say that the GOP is the 'enemy', that Trump is the 'enemy', Senator Warren said the other night that big corpoarations are the 'enemy' I worked 20 years of myprofessional life for the 'enemy' the 20 years for the 'good guys' as a fianncial manager for non-profits. There is nothing "progressive" about anyone who calls a fellow American, the enemy. That is you Senator Warren, Stop It and stop it now! You too Trump and GOP Allies especially on Fox. Together we fix things, all we would get from Sentor Warren's brand of politics is 4 more years of battling between parties and zero progress. Do we have crony capitalism that is corrupt? Yes! Do we need to repeal the Trump tax give aways? Yes but you do that by building consensus not fanning more hatred. A smoother talking, brighter than the avergae woman can, so I prefer another Senator, Amy Klobachar who does not talk class warfare, does not speak of dividing the country who understands domestic peace brings huge rewards so that real progress can be attained towards a better country. Senator Warren is selling a brand of divisveness, the same swill as Trump just in a nicer container.
3
"electability" posts are someone's opinion wrapped in anecdotes and supported by conjecture.
the author doesn't like the candidate.
there isn't much more to it than that.
5
@ JackC5
Sad to say, you are correct about our sexist culture and electorate. In few words you have exactly captured the sentiment that will keep many people from voting for Senator Warren, as admirable as she is. 2020 is too important to lose.
1
Why do these oh-so-crucial white working class people vote Republican?
Actual "Republican" values -- "small government" (= permission for corporations to make money unimpeded by regulations or labor unions) and "low taxes and balanced budgets" (= excuse for cutting the safety net after cutting taxes on the rich) are UNPOPULAR. No party was ever going to win a fair election based on that platform.
Hence the GOP tactic, going back at least to Goldwater, of disguising them under right-wing cultural and lifestyle issues, so as to fake out low-information voters.
The result is clear: bigotry, misogyny, xenophobia and other fear-based issues have been stoked and fed to the point where we now have a society riven down the middle; only one political party is even trying to tell the truth, and 40% of the population is now in a GOP-induced state of advanced paranoia over things that aren't even real.
You won't reach these folks by trying to meet them halfway. The way the Democrats will break this cycle is by running a real Democrat with real plans, and exciting sane, well-informed people to turn out and VOTE -- enough to overcome the built-in inequality in both the Electoral College and the Senate -- so that a Democratic President, with a Democratic Congress, can actually enact laws that benefit people and they can see the results in their lives.
THAT, and only that, will send the Party of Trump to the trash heap.
3
I believe this paradox is related to the belief system and culture of the less educated voters. This group is still male dominated. Women are dominant in the black culture and among educated Whites. Lower economic groups still put men on a pedestal, and women don't tell them what to do.
There's a ton of prejudice.
1
The engineer of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau will know a thing or two about endearing white working class voters to her campaign.
1
Yes she does. Which is that Trump, sad to say, looks stronger and relates better. The winner is generally the one best able to communicate to their audience, is likable (at least to the majority) and appears strong. Trump has a horribly remarkable rapport with this audience and despite being obese and repellent, nonetheless appears tough. Warren would have to show she's tougher than he is, plus she comes across as a "hip and with-it" Harvard professor -- something working class voters didn't like about Obama. Americans vote with their intuition not with their intellect. I don't see a Democratic candidate who can beat Trump on either relating to audience or -- horrible to say -- likability.
Elizabeth Warren is very smart and well-informed about all of the ways that our government is structured to the gross disadvantage of working people of all races and ethnicities and genders.
We will be missing a great opportunity if we fail to elect her as our president.
3
I agree that Warren needs to dial back some of the "progressive" positions she has taken, such as decriminalizing the border. But, overall, she is a brilliant woman who actually cares about the working and lower middles classes. I don't agree with all of her ideas but it's nice to have a candidate that gives serious thought to complex issues, unlike the Toddler-in-Chief currently occupying the White House.
The people in Rockland you interviewed need to educate themselves. We have all paid for college or technical school tuition and loans. what's past is past. Warren is talking about the future -- including the future of your kids. So please get over yourselves and your resentments.
Plus, it will be grand to see Warren slice and dice Trumpty-Dumpty during the debates. She will eviscerate him.
3
It's her open borders policy that is her nemesis. This is never ever going to work with non advance degree whites or probably any others in the same economic boat and not with non USA extended families potentially seeking refuge here. It's completely inconsistent with these folks. Democrats whether they like it or not need to heed this basic fact if they ever hope to have a national presence. Wake up Liz and refashion your platform and honestly tell the American people after extensive discussion with people of all walks of life her reappraisal of the situation. This is trumps only election gold ring...take it now from him and grab the prize. This is the moment. It's now.
Well , that's a problem, if you can't win the white working class "male" voters then you can't win the White House. It's pretty plain and simple and basic electoral college math. I know it doesn't seem fair or right or whatever, but it is a fact...
1
Senator Warren needs to go back to her hometown
for a week's visit.
Gather up her fellow classmates and exchange the
expensive clothes she wears for common folk clothes
and let her hair down and remember how to speak as she
did growing up, not as a Harvard Professor.
Talk to people on the campaign trail as if you were still their
next door neighbor in Oklahoma and you can win,
win quite easily.
1
“For example, in a Fox survey, she drew 33 percent of white, non-college respondents in a matchup against President Trump, versus 38 percent for Joe Biden and 37 percent for Bernie Sanders. For Democrats to feel fully confident about nominating Ms. Warren as their standard-bearer, she needs to figure out this puzzle.”
So in a sample with margin of error of plus or minus 3, for a range of six, where the cited stat will have a larger margin of error, the two term Vice President and the main challenger to Hillary, do five and four points better in this poll than does Warren.
I am afraid. I am afraid to think of what goes on in the minds of people that they publish a piece go after Warren on such pathetic non evidence. I am afraid to think about how this mental laziness dishonesty and hubris has got us where we are.
And I am not a Warren fan. She is a poor campaigner. She and her staff worked hard with that “I am not afraid” sound bite she just delivered to attack the Biden camp. It is embarrassing but deaf ears.
But. Whatever Warrens faults neither this piece nor the Times publishing it is within the bounds of intellectual honesty.
3
@In deed
Aside from the part about not being a Warren fan, I agree with you. The tiny sample and truncated anecdotes, the assumptions made about who represents "the working class", speak more to journalistic presumption than they do to the idea of a "Warren Paradox".
3
You're asking whether the woman who played Trump's troll game and failed in absolutely spectacular fashion has a critical vulnerability? Um, yes. Yes she does.
It’s quite simple. Anti intellectualism with a splash of misogyny. These poor or lower middle class voters have been well trained to defend the status quo, regardless of how little it benefits them.
2
So the white working class weren’t motivated by economic anxiety or corruption? You don’t say...
1
For someone so smart, Elizabeth Warren strikes me as someone who has a tough time fully accounting for her own life and identity. She claims that all she wanted to be was a teacher: yet, she is a professor of law at a place no less than Harvard. She says that it's important for women to chart her own path: yet, she dropped out of George Washington University to get married to Jim Warren and then with the help of her second husband--Bruce Mann--joined UPenn Law School. She was a Republican for most of her life: yet, she gives no full-throated answer to why she joined the Republican Party (until 1996). What values did the GOP have during the Reagan-Bush era that so aligned with her own? She claims working-class roots, but she hasn't been part of the working-class for a long, long time. She claimed Native American heritage, but she has since apologized for it. All of this collectively makes me think that the gnawing concern over Elizabeth Warren is her lack of personal authenticity. Just own the full complexity of who you are. Erasing these parts of her makes me wonder if she's genuinely comfortable with herself. Perhaps all that over-the-top emotional display elides a fragile sense of self. In a telling interview, she says that she married Bruce Mann because he had "great legs." Really? Undoubtedly, if Warren stays in the race, she'll have moments of crisis that will shake her to the core and force her to account for herself. We'll see what she's made of.
66
@UC Graduate
Seriously, that's all you have on her?? Meanwhile, Trump is on his 10,459th bald face lie, driving the economy into a ditch with his tariffs, threatening war with Iran, coddling dictators, mocking the National Weather Service .... need I go on? Warren has a better grasp of the issues at play than most of the other candidates, and actually has well thought out plans - whether you agree with them or not - as opposed to government by tweet. Get real, we need someone with brains and character and not afraid to take on the corporate male-dominated culture. It's about time.
103
@UC Graduate A UC graduate should think more rationally before accusing Senator Warren of lacking authenticity when we now have Donald J. Trump as our"authentic" POTUS. Reality check is needed here.
61
@UC Graduate
Voting for Reagan and Nixon - twice - would need some clarification, one should think.
30
I am so tired of hearing about these white working-class voters.
We need to get the non-voters to the polls.
I am unwilling to wait for people stuck in the 20th century to realize that times have changed.
I am getting non-voters registered.
There are far more non-voters than the people interviewed for this piece.
2
Dear Mr. Starobin,
While I realize that introspection is a good and important quality, I would add the caveat when practiced privately. For some reason the tendency of democrats to engage in public displays of introspection induced self doubt doesn't seem to play so well politically. When was the last time you heard a republican question the potency of the leader? I mean "Does Elizabeth Warren Have a Critical Vulnerability?" Well hell, she might, but whatever they are should rightly pale in comparison to he whose name shall not be spoken.
5
I think she is the most qualified, tenacious and willing candidate we will have in 2020. However, one big red flag I see for her is repeated daily, most recently last night on the Stephen Colbert show, when he asked her whether all her plans would raise taxes for the middle class She did not answer. She did not answer in the debate last week Sept. 12. She HAS to answer this question with an EMPHATIC YES. She can explain all she wants to afterward how it is all going to work out with lower costs, but SHE HAS TO SAY YES IT WILL. Let that sink in now.
4
@Anne
And what none of the Medicare for all candidates are expressing adequately is that the tax increase for middle class Americans would be less than what they pay now for medical care.
That, and the danger of bankruptcy from medical bills will go away. And medical costs are no longer inflated to cover bad debts.
More taxes, but less out of pocket and no more crushing medical debt.
Imagine, paying taxes and getting something back for your money. Just like in the civilized countries.
4
Taxes would go up but we would not pay for an insurance plan or deductibles. The overall price would be less. Warren is not being devious; she’s just smart enough to not to give Fox News the sound bite “yes, it will raise taxes” and then cut off the rest of what she say afterwards.
The problem with white working class men is probably just plain and simple sexism.
Simple as that. They simply can't conceive of a president that doesn't have a penis.
7
Rockland, 20 miles south of Boston; Lexington, about 15 miles north of Boston; Weymouth, around 15 miles south of Boston. From working class to affluent, all three are essentially Boston suburbs. I'd have more faith in this analysis if it drew from a broader sample.
1
All I can say here is that, as a follower of Elizabeth Warren for years and years, she best understands white, working class issues. That the white working class don’t know this, and that in fact vote as if a man like Donald Trump better understands and will solve their plight, speaks volumes. Clearly the consummate snake oil salesman is preferable to the woman who did more to try and address true Wall Street reform than any other contemporary politician. Honestly? I don’t know if there is anything we can do to prompt these people to choose a person who understands the things that can be done to very much change their lives, dreams, hopes and aspirations over a man who never has given a damn about anything but himself, and perhaps his family. And this saddens me greatly.
4
What's the story? The anti-Warren people in Rockland you cite had only stupid reasons. This is in a country with mandatory universal primary education.
3
It's still very early in the game, with 10 to 11 candidates vying for the nomination. Most voters have only heard crude stereotypes about Warren. Those who've heard the candidate herself tend to be favorably impressed.
2
A would not worry about her being "out of touch." Trump showed that this issue does not matter for blue-collar workers. People mostly respond to slogans.
4
The image of Warren as an elitist who gamed the system is hard to dispute. She for $400K a year for teaching one class at Harvard Law, and has a personal fortune of $10 million. What great things did she do to make this money? Is she one of the most brilliant legal minds of her generation? No, and she went to Rutgers law school, which is not even in the top 50. It does look like she gamed the system.
Now let's look at the interests of blue collar men, not just whites, but blacks as well. Do they want to be told what to do and how to live by a wealthy woman lawyer? She will tell them they have to get rid of their big pickup trucks and ditch their guns, eat a healthy diet with lots of fresh vegetables, and yes, pay more taxes. Trump knows how to paint that picture, and paints it very well.
8
@Jonathan Trump has never made a legitimate dollar in his life, certainly not by his own toil. Would you not say he "gamed" the system? He has run a criminal enterprise since the day his dad died, even before then. And he keeps getting away with it. Warren "gamed" only in the sense that she made the best possible use of the opportunities afforded her. Totally above board. And would you apply your same standards to a man who went to Rutgers? Give me a break.
Wait. She will make me eat vegetables!!! Good lord, save us all!!!
1
The man quoted in this essay who is a welder and a member of the local plumbers union got it right. Elizabeth Warren would be liked more if she were a man. Her knowledge, her experience and her ability to focus on policy facts and figures that American voters need to hear is unmatched by any other candidate, male or female.
But it is our country, not Elizabeth Warren, that suffers from the cultural belief that a 'male' bulldog would be better than a 'female' bulldog as President.
This country elected (sort of) George Bush, Jr., a C student from Yale his voters felt they could go out and have a beer with. Then he dragged us into the unending war.
Reagan, a Hollywood cowboy on a horse, talked everyone into Trickle Down Economics. That didn't work out. Folks liked him plenty, too.
Now there's Trump, a jokester, who makes 'em laugh and gets 'em riled up at his rallies, such that we have an out-of-control violence and mass murder problem by white men in this country.
It is unfathomable that we are having a conversation about whether Elizabeth Warren is likable or relatable enough to working class white voters.
Elizabeth is sane. I'll take sane. A candidate who is sane in this country is considered a socialist, a liberal, an elite.
For what it's worth, New York City is filled with working class men and women who came from all over this country to live here...and work. We voted for Hillary Clinton. And if it comes down to Warren and Trump, we'll vote for Warren.
784
@Giselle Minoli
This is a mixed message. You cite three examples of presidents getting elected for the wrong reasons. And those reasons they won't vote for Warren. You'll take sane. They won't. Is there another candidate that might attract more voters in the General Election?
13
@Giselle Minoli
The great majority of the country has people who don't have any care or concern or thought whatever about what people in NYC think or believe. And the electoral college makes it irrelevant in Trump or Warren's demise, election-wise, as well.
16
@Giselle Minoli
I wouldn't like her if she was a kitten.
There is more to being president than being a social justice warrior.
We have much bigger fish to fry.
In a normal election year, I might say YAY! But we must get rid of Trump and begin to right the wrongs he has set in place.
I'm not sure she gets that.
And I'm pretty sure she doesn't understand the job of President is not just a bigger stick to go after social issues.
9
This article posits that the voter block in question is averse to Warren because:
a) People who have "played by the rules" don't want others to benefit from government assistance.
b) She's a woman.
c) They are misinformed on her policies,
It sure sounds like the problem here isn't with Warren but with the voters in question...
8
News flash: being a woman is a critical vulnerability in the eyes of some voters. Get over it. We've got to redefine how leadership looks, sounds, and acts--and elect the best problem solvers. Otherwise, we'll have stale, pale males in charge forever.
3
Read the NYTimes article about working women in West Virginia, and it will be easier to comprehend how Hillary lost and the uphill battle facing any female candidate in the more traditional and conservative parts of the country in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/appalachia-coal-women-work-.html?searchResultPosition=1
Biden-Booker 2020
Sigh. We read these exact same arguments about Hillary. This is lazy critiquing. Lather, rinse, repeat.
4
Absolutely yes, she has a huge vulnerability.
People who can see her pie in the sky ideas and call them for what they are, unreal.
Unfortunately for Warren, she played the game started by AOC and her co-horts, let’s see who can run the furthest to the left of any candidate out there.
To this end she supported AOC’s New Green Deal even before she read it, because once it came out that it guaranteed an income to those who refused to work, she said she was not for it; she wants reparations for former slaves, open borders, medicare for all, free medical and such for illegals, and all this paid for by more taxes.
She was for taking cash from the rich before she was for taxing the rich to pay for her promises.
Any one who does the math can tell she is full of impossible dreams that no one in the congress of the senate will ever pass, and thus anything she promises on the road is a lie.
As a result she has managed to scare away well over 85% of the American voters.
But you cannot tell this to progressives, they cannot see any of this. In the words of the NYT:
‘She’s so good at this’ - Michelle Goldberg , 09/13/19
She might be so good at playing people for fools. But she is failing miserably at convincing the country to vote for her.
4
@AutumnLeaf If by "the country" you mean yourself, I suppose you're right.
1
Speaking of critical vulnerabilities.... let's not forget that Warren penned an article for "The Cut" praising Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, First of Her Name, the Unburnt, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons, just a couple episodes before she went full-on Mad Queen and roasted a million King's Landingers with dragon fire.
Is that the kind of judgement we want in the White House?
4
The primary responsibility of every citizen is to know when you are being lied to. 63 million of our fellow citizens failed that test in 2016. Kowtowing to the fools that fell for the Donny Trump Con Job is not going to save our democracy
1
@ rls
Each one of those fools has exactly the same number of votes as you and each of your friends have. Few of them will change their mind, but even fewer of them will be convinced to switch by statements like yours. In any event, they have to be outnumbered, and your approach will bring even more of them out.
The best approach will be to nominate a candidate who appeals to his many people as possible and PO‘s as few people as possible. Other approaches may include moving to Canada or not having grandchildren. Your choice.
2
Another well-educated liberal, patronizingly wringing their hands about those poor white people. Just support the best candidate already.
5
Ironic that these white working class people would prefer a billionaire playboy who inherited his wealth over a working/middle class woman from Oklahoma who got her start as a schoolteacher.
3
So she's currently five points behind Biden with this demographic? That's nothing. Is this article based on any meaningful evidence besides the author's conversations with random passersby, or is it just the wholly unsubstantiated hit piece it reads as?
2
I'll sum up for you - racism, combined with misogyny, are powerful forces. (We get the leaders we deserve.)
1
"A" critical vulnerability?
The Times doesn't think there's more than one?
Talk about being in the proverbial bubble...
1
Y'know, these days all you have to do is look at the headline of a NY Times op-ed piece to know, "Oh, here's another article by a comfortably upper middle class dude disparaging a female politician for her perceived lack of ability to cater to working class white guys." Which usually they know because of that one time they went to a diner somewhere in the Midwest, and didn't bother talking to their servers and line cooks and dishwashers, just some disgruntled patrons in trucker hats.
4
She is 1/1028 electable in a general election.
And 1028/1028 a racist who appropriates culture.
2
It doesn't matter who the Dem nominee is. GOP voters will be convinced by their curated media bubble that the Dem nominee, whoever they are, is a gun-snatching, baby-murdering, tax-raising socialist.
Yes, she is a shrill, pedantic, proven liar who wants to hammer the middle class to provide for illegals and people who refuse to work or be responsible for themselves.
Her plans have no chance of becoming law if the land.
5
@stan So you won't vote for her. You'll vote for Trump, like you already did. No big deal.
Oh Well... at the end of the day you will never please everyone. What will put Liz over the top is her willingness to outthink and out fight the Orange wizard.
2
It sounds like the only way Ms. Warren will grab those additional white voters is if she gets a sex change.
Don't do it, Elizabeth!
4
Elizabeth Warren is something new- and she's getting better and better at communicating. The American public is going to take some time to get used to her but it's beginning to look like it's happening. Her energy and good will are contagious. People are finding out to their great surprise that they like her and that she makes sense. She might just be the one to break the ultimate glass ceiling.
3
PA working class voters voted overwhelmingly for Trump in the last election. I'm sure they will vote for him again in 2020 even though he's done nothing for them.
1
Got it. So if Warren were to espouse GOP viewpoints; pandering with issues like gun control, lower taxes, and scapegoating minorities, she could get elected. Makes perfect sense to me.
Maybe it's time to have some faith in the working class. This belief in the non-college educated white who cannot make informed decisions or distrusts everyone who is smart or has been successful is, at best, patronizing! Republicans have incorrectly bet the farm on it. Old school Dems aren't much better. Warren's solutions are laser focused on improving the lot of the working class and they not hard to understand. People do, and will get it. Have a little faith - that will resonate with voters of all persuasions.
2
I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from the population sample of this article. A lot of people really don't start paying attention to the election until both parties' nominees are finalized, and the choice is narrower.
If she gets the nomination, Elizabeth Warren should have a relatively easy time distinguishing between her accomplishments on behalf of working people and those of Donald Trump. In addition to many other things, she established the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, which has returned @$12 billion to American consumers, whereas Trump has tried to dismantle that necessary operation (perhaps because he's run the kinds of unethical businesses that require people to seek the recourse of agencies like the CFPB).
The distinction between the two of them couldn't be starker. It's untenable to me that some people don't know who's on their side.
359
@D Price Many of those "working class" folks who have decent health insurance and are being told by Warren that they can't keep that and will, instead, pay taxes to pay for MFA giving them the same healthcare access as the unemployed drunk bum begging on the corner will fear Warren much more than Trump.
Similarly, many who paid off their student loans by being fiscally disciplined (which is far more people than would benefit from Warren's student loan giveaway) will find it unfair that, ultimately, their taxes will go up to pay the debts of those who failed to take their fiscal obligations seriously. (Claiming that Warren's programs will all be paid for by her Wealth Tax, as this piece implies, is absurd - of the dozen or so European countries who implemented such taxes, most have dropped it due to it generating much less revenue than expected and incenting entrepreneurs to start businesses in other countries).
Perhaps Warren's general election motto should "I've told you what I want to do, but don't worry, I won't be able to do it".
(BTW, by November 2020, it's quite likely the CFPB will have been dissolved or at least effectively neutered if the Supreme Court grants cert. in Seila Law LLC, v. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau - the Administration is calling for the court to grant cert. and advising the court, that since the Administration agrees with Seila Law, the court may want to appoint an amicus curiae to defend the CFPB's lower court's decision.)
2
@Bob Richards... Can you name a POTUS who delivered on everything they said they wanted to accomplish during their campaign? It never happens. The point is her heart is in the right place, i.e., working class people are getting the short end of the stick while one-tenth of one percent of the population, a group which disproportionately uses the infrastructure and court system, gets a free ride. Enough is enough.
10
The question isn't will white, working-class voters who preferred Trump to Hillary switch, en masse, to Warren. The answer to that is obvious: heck no. Racial hostility and sexism run deep. Working class whites fled Boston for Rockland because they could afford it and their kids wouldn't have to go to school with brown people. Warren and Clinton are both well-educated professional women who express no racial hostility, and whose very existence challenges the husband-breadwinner / wife-homemaker traditional culture.
The real question is will Warren do better than Hillary in bringing 2016 non-voters to the polls. There is reason to think the answer is yes. Hillary didn't inspire millennials; Warren does. Hillary seemed satisfied to preach to the choir; Warren is constantly looking to expand her base. I expect Warren to continue to reach out to people of color and to working class whites. She's a worker.
Given a chance, Warren will lose Rockland, but win the presidency.
276
@Sam I Am "The real question is will Warren do better than Hillary in bringing 2016 non-voters to the polls. "
Absolutely, my fellow Nutmegger.
19
@Sam I Am
I don't think so.
She will lose male and female older black voters, male and female older white voters, hispanic voters, Asian voters, white and black low educated working class voters, those whose wealth will lead to her higher taxes, and upper management of America's Chamber of Commerce business world companies who don't want to see the reforms she's planning.
That last group is a hefty headwind - the Trump oppo research will make mincemeat of her "plans" targeting businesses. That's why she could not get confirmed for the director of the CFPB and that's going to resurface if she's the nominee.
So will the Native American heritage lies.
7
Yeah she may not win the votes of those whose income is over ten million or those who expect an inheritance of a billion. But there aren’t that many super rich.
Most of us —black, white, young, old—are barely hanging on, struggling to pay for expensive for profit health care, trying to help our children pay down onerous high interest student loans. We need Bernie or Elizabeth. Biden won’t do anything for us.
14
Oh, please. A grind? Well, I guess when you have a candidate with ideas and policies on complicated issues, that's a grind. And surely she shouldn't be so wonky, smile more, and probably it would help if she were ten or twenty years younger. Though that doesn't seem to be a drawback for Biden.
It would probably also help if Warren were male, and her voice wasn't, you know, so feminine and so strident and she was this and that and something else.
What do voters want? Some wanted and got a thorough-going mobster bum with no clue how to run anything and who cares nothing about the people or the country.
"White, working class" voters are not a bloc and not in lock step with any issue, except perhaps the economy.
No, a good, clean, attractive, slim, candidate with a brain and ideas, well, she's vulnerable. She's not reality tee-vee material probably.
195
@George Dietz
She smiles a lot and looks way younger than Biden and Bernie and Hillary. Even Biden voters admit that they prefer Warren over him, they're just voting for him in the polls now because they think he's a safer, more moderate choice, plus he has more name recognition. Once people see Warren win a few early battleground states she'll pick up momentum and a lot of these voters will flock to her. I don't think she should change a thing, just keep hammering the economic policies and don't talk about immigration. If I was her I'd reverse course on that and start talking about simply reversing Trump's policies and doing common sense things on immigration, not decriminalizing it.
25
@George Dietz
Senator Warren is not truthful, documented evidence of her heritage, and most recently, pretending to scorn moneyed interests while actually collecting $$$$, and using it to create IOUs around the country. Not being a Senator.
3
@George Dietz It frightens me that the American public wants an entertaining, telegenic candidate. They liked Sarah Palin a lot.
16
She's not struggling with them. They're struggling with themselves and their racism, xenophobia, and homophobia. And we don't need them to win in 2020.
6
Many of the objections you quoted were based upon poor information. The key will be for her to provide a clear, credible message that counters the noise of her detractors.
2
When will pundits understand that we have reached the point of no return in terms of maintaining the status quo? It hasn't worked for most in this century. Elizabeth Warren is scary to many, especially the white males who represent the blue collar voters referred to here. I see one of two possibilities in 2020. One, they abandon Trump as they finally see him as the con artist he is. Two, they recognize that the 2016 attempt at blowing things up failed for them, and try again with Elizabeth Warren. Meanwhile, 70-80,000 votes made the difference. That's not a lot, and I see the greater turnout by Democrats this time as overcoming that deficit in the key states.
She has all that is mentioned here as vulnerabilities and then some.
One of her major issues is electability with independents and Republicans who are sick of Trump.S
Recently, she accepted with thanks the support of the Working People's Party. Bernie got their support in 2016 and said that of all the parties they were the closest to his vision of Democratic Socialism.
If you think that this is a winning label then you are wrong.
Warren cannot win a general election.
She and her friend Sanders are just too far left.
4
I don’t understand. Why can’t Americans have what citizens of every other first world nation have had for decades? Why is the idea of investing our tax dollars in our health care and in our children’s education—which would bring far greater dividends to our nation than throwing more trillions at our bloated military industrial complex—“too far left”?
I’m thankful that my granddaughter has dual citizenship. She will attend university in Europe tuition free. (She may even go to medical school like her cousins.). And when she graduates-with no debt-she will never have to worry about the cost of health care.
I want the children of my friends and neighbors to have the same advantages in life that my granddaughter (thanks to dual citizenship) will have.
1
Most of the criticisms of Warren are coming from Trump/Republican/Fox gaslighting. This is going to be a problem for any candidate
Registering new voters, and getting them to the polls, specifically in states that voted for Trump by a slim margin, must be a priority. This despite all the roadblocks put into place by Republicans working overtime to deny the vote to non-Republicans.
The guy who can’t stand to listen to Warren? He’s not voting for a Democrat no who, no way. Don’t even bother. Just keep exposing Trump for what he is. Some of these guys will be discouraged and stay home, which is the best we can hope from them.
4
I pay for health insurance and I yes, I like my insurance company. 180 million Americans pay for health insurance and according to a WaPo poll over 70% of them like their insurance. The idea that you can take a commodity away from someone which they purchased, and want, because it's unfair to someone else isn't socialism-it's Marxism.
Excusing the college debt of people who knowingly took out loans is regressive taxation. People who go to college make more money than those that don't. More college=more debt but also more income. We don't have a billion dollars lying around to pay off these loans. If even 1% of the money has to come from people who don't have a college education this is called regressive taxation.
Yes, Liz has extensive policy positions. The problems is she hasn't honestly dealt with the consequences of her positions. It's easy to blame insurance companies but these companies employ 3 million people and 70% of people with investments have at least one insurance stock in their portfolio. It's easy to blame pharmaceutical companies, and I agree their prices need to be investigated, but if you take away their profit margin why would they continue to develop new drugs?
Finding people to vilify is not a solution. Taking away people's property doesn't make society better. Claiming to be a Native American when you're not would sink a Republican candidate.
This is why she's a weak candidate-no matter how much she tells us her life history and struggles.
4
My expensive for profit health insurance almost killed me. I don’t know anyone who likes their employer bought health insurance.
Warren needs to create a list of "fears" which the right creates and explain as briefly as possible why the fear is groundless.
Example: When I walk down a street, how many people I pass actually immigrated to the US in the last 12 months. The answer is 55,000 divided by 350million or 1 person out of 7000, approximately. In the last decade? 1 out of 700.
This is what we have to fear? What a joke that immigration is being used to scare people away from the progressive party.
2
So...the point spread of about 5 percentage points between Sanders and Biden versus Warren is not a lot.
But in a right wing state like the US - with very close splits in swing states that can swing the whole election - differences in the 'white working class vote,' can determine the outcome.
This is why Sanders is better - 'globally,' he's neck-and-neck w/Biden. But in key swing states, under the US's Electoral College system, Sanders is getting more donations from those crucial swing voters - who went from Obama to Trump - than either Biden or Warren.
Moral of story: it's not only a question of where Sanders is nationally; it's a question of how polls and donations show he'll do in key battleground states.
[https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-out-raises-joe-biden-in-obama-trump-swing-counties]
2
One glaring weakness of Warren's is all her wild budget-busting, pie-in-the-sky proposals for adding government services without one word being spent on how the Democrats plan to take back the Senate. Without a majority there her ideas are nothing but hot hair. This same criticism applies to Sanders.
3
@DB
Yes, but the beauty of voting for Warren is that we don't have to worry about the effects of any of those things on the budget or deficit, because there is no chance any of those plans will ever go anywhere
4
@GMooG What isn't so beautiful about Warren's wild proposals is that it could easily cost the Democrats and her a highly winnable election.
I think this piece misses something important about Michigan and (especially) Wisconsin. In those states, there is a strong and distinct Progressive tradition focused on the public trust and democratic accountability in both government and the economy. That's why Bernie Sanders won those states in the 2016 primaries. And it's why Tammy Baldwin -- one of the most progressive members of the Senate -- was reelected in 2018 with a margin of >10%. Then, look at Gretchen Whitmer's compelling victory in Michigan that same year. She won by promising to stand up for regular people in a country that's too dominated by special interests. And that's the essence of Warren's approach.
To restate things in a different way -- Hillary Clinton won Massachusetts, while Bernie Sanders won Michigan and Wisconsin by wide margins. These are different regions with different cultures.
1
I cannot disagree with much of his content. As a Warren supporter, I worry about many of the same things. However, Clinton lost Michigan by 8,000 votes and the Democratic party begged her to come campaign as they felt it slipping away. Pleas which she ignored. Warren will not. Clinton lost Wisconsin because she did not visit the state one time! Warren can relate and come across much better than Hillary to the white, non-college, blue collar segment....some of her ultra liberal stands annoy me as well but I love her energy, vision and views on the need for structural change. I think she beats Trump in Michigan and Wisconsin. The congressman from Ohio as a VP would be a strong choice. Anyway....bring it on home Elizabeth!
2
And this my friends is why the Electoral College must go. We have a country where the vast majority of the country is ignored in order to cater to the whims of a few states where white working class folks live. We have Trump because of their sexist (“If she were a man, they would love her.”) and racist values ("As he explained, places like Rockland, on the South Shore of Massachusetts, need to be understood as products of “white flight” from Boston, following court-ordered school busing in the mid-1970s."). I just can't support Biden simply because he appeals to these folks.
3
The best thing Elizabeth Warren could do if she wins the nomination is to choose Mayor Pete as her VP running mate.
To win Warren (and any other Democrat) needs to pick one:
1. Universal healthcare and expanded safety net.
OR
2. Open borders (or its practical equivalent).
Almost any Democrat, including Warren, would beat Trump in California, New York, and Massachusetts. Warren could very well lose the states of the industrial Midwest and Pennsylvania - - states that the Democrats need to beat Trump. To win the presidency in 2020, the Democrats will need a moderate who pushes Obamacare with a public option, jobs, reasonable gun safety, restoration of US leadership on environmental and security issues, and repeal of Trump's tax give-away to the rich. As Obama often said, we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Put another way, half a loaf is better than none. It's called compromise.
3
Why should we believe that such moderate will win? The moderate lost these states in 2016, why do you think they won't lose it in 2020?
3
@ Yulia
Come, now. It wasn’t about moderation, or any other policy issue. Hillary lost in those states because her campaign was politically inept and she was personally unappealing to too many people. Sorry, but that’s the country that we have. Sexists vote -or stay home. And having stirred the sexists up, Hillary poisoned the well for Warren. I admire both of them immensely, but can’t see either as president. Too bad.
1
@yulia
Clinton's campaign took those states for granted - they pretty much ignored the pain that workers felt as they fell behind those of us in the Northeast and the West Coast who were lucky enough to thrive in the evolving world economy. The majority of gains made by Democrats in the 2018 House elections came from moderate Democrats, although this point seems largely ignored by our news
outlets. If the Democrats want to oust Trump and usher in a period of economic and political stability, they will need to run a centrist campaign. No political faction can get everything they want - - the country was set up to encourage compromise.
We all know that whoever wins the midwest wins the presidency. Can she do that? I have no crystal ball, but that is the one pertinent question.
37
@Joe Runciter
I like Warren, but I like and trust Sanders more.
He can win the midwest!
Remember, he won the Michigan and Wisconsin primaries.
7
@Lucy Cooke
But that doesn't mean he would have won the general.
9
@dba
Trump only won Wisconsin by a 0.7% margin, and only won Michigan by a 0.3% margin. Both of those states preferred Bernie to Hillary. So I’d say there’s a pretty good chance Bernie would have won them in the general election.
3
Should Warren win the nomination, Trump will immediately start referring to her as "Hillary No. 2," or "More Left Than Hillary," or "Hillary on Steroids." He'll call her a smartypants Harvard professor, an elitist, and, of course, a socialist. Plus dozens of other names. But none of it will matter, because she can actually sell herself to the working class as someone representing their interests. And she can convince them that Trump has betrayed them, that he is a fraud. And Trump knows it.
6
Anyone who says the hopes of Democrats in 2020 rests on white working class voters is not someone to take seriously.
4
Agreed
1
@Austin Ouellette
And anyone who believes this...is just playing into Trumps hands.
I would (and will) vote for anyone versus Trump. But it does seem silly to roll the dice with Warren. None of her big ideas get enacted without 60 Democrats in the Senate next year. They probably won't even get 50. Why not go with someone with a more compromising approach, someone more likely to win in the first place. Uncle Joe, despite all his foot-in-mouth issues, would seem to fit the bill.
5
Warren lied about her Indian heritage to game the system. She earned $400k+ for teaching one class at Harvard. Her ability to relate to the white middle and working class is non-existent.
5
How did she game the system? What perks did she get to the claim? Permit to live in reservations? To game system you need more than that - rich parents. way more helpful in this game.
1
First of all, she is Native American. She heard stories about it from her grandmother and her DNA concluded that her full blooded Native American ancestor was possibly as close as 6 generations ago. That means her grandmother’s mother could have been a quarter Native American and probably learned about it through her mother who would be half Native American. The issue was that she identified herself as being part of a tribe and that’s not how it works. DNA is beside the point.
Second of all, Harvard has gone out of its way to deny your claim on why she was hired. She’s freaking brilliant. That was why they hired her. There was no Affirmative Action involved in her hiring. The idea is laughable. Harvard does not have a great affirmative action record.
1
@Jon Galt What's wrong with making money?
1
I guess that many people don’t like her because she is a Native American Indian. But Harvard university did.
4
Does Elizabeth Warren Have a Critical Vulnerability?
Yes, she's a woman who has to contend with misogyny from uneducated and backward men.
11
Wow. So much criticism of Warren “sounding like a professor.” Where have I heard that criticism of a Democrat before?
2
Warren/Jimmy Carter
to fulfill his second term!
This whole election is a circus, bring on the clowns!
Biden at 80 will be no use, a token worth no more than a bus ride to status quo.
Warren is so out of touch she convinced herself she was a Native American so she could play the victim card and receive special treatment to enrich her multi-millionaire status.
That's IN TOUCH!
4
Special treatment? And what special treatment it was? I haven't notice many Native Americans among multimillionaires. If that would be a case, Trump would the first to claim Native American ancestry.
2
Every male just dreams of having a preachy haranguing female as the commander in chief and bully-pulpit owner for 4 or 8 years … not.
5
@JackC5
Yes, imagine, a woman who thinks she knows something, possibly even more than some men. Oh, the horror, the horror.
Above all this is a scepticism that a woman can/should be president nothing more.
2
A much bigger problem is that to this point at least she has no minority support at all. None. Zero. Zip.
5
She had 3 percent support of African Americans a few months ago and today she has 14 percent. She also has 11 percent support of Latinos but that’ll change once she wins the nomination. Once she wins those numbers will skyrocket.
1
@Martini
What is your cite for those stats? I do not believe for a second that LW has 14% of the black vote- certainly not nationwide. She may have that in CA because black voters out there do not love Kamala Harris but there is no way that Warren has 14% nationwide.
Anecdotally, a black guy with whom I talk politics has told me that the local African American women are listening to Warren, Harris and Klobuchar carefully.
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."
Just vote for whomever you like in the primaries. Chances are, the winner will have a good chance of beating the Game Show Host in Chief.
Strategic overthinking and second guessing will not result in a strong candidate.
1
I'm disturbed that the examples given by white working class in this article against Warren are untrue Fox news talking points.
How does Warren inform those who want to stay uninformed? If collage people are reading her policies and like what they see then how do you reach people who won't look further then her having a female voice? Why do you want people to overpay for college just because you did? Why do you want everyone to suffer?
NYT is also to blame because they keep saying such and such candidates haven't said or clarified things when they have. If they posted decent summaries and links to the candidates policies then they can help inform people as well rather then these fluff pieces.
1
@Shannon
Why ask others to overpay and to suffer?
Because if we really aspire to fairness, that is necessary. Are you suggesting we not try for fairness?
Trump and his minions in the Senate and Fox News are going to drag the Democratic nominee down into the mud and fight so dirty with millions of dollars of media ads featuring smears, distortions and outright lies that you will be shocked. They will literally say anything. I sincerely hope that the Democrat (whether Warren or anyone else) is prepared and has a plan to fight fire with fire. I doubt they do.
1
Warren doesn't need to apologize for anything. This so-called “DNA fiasco” was a development rooted in deliberate dirty trick shenanigans of erstwhile bumbling Massachusetts GOP senator incumbent Scott Brown in the 2014 election deliberately smearing Warren with baseless nonsense about her ancestry. Regardless he was soundly defeated by Warren. But trump has taken up the same baseless slur, nicknaming her “Pocahontas” and deliberately turning it into a punchline intended to minimize her political legitimacy. trump has a heluva lot more to apologize for.
4
After all the (continued) hoopla about public persons past foibles, real or not, and democratic threats of impeachment against anyone "tainted", how in the world can they nominate a woman that lied and cheated her way to her current position? And to pull the "can't vote for a woman" card is ridiculous and telling of the democrats racist and sexist predilections. Warren is a total fraud, watching her talk down to us is annoying, and how she can stand there and tell us to vote for her for President tells us just how bad of a person she really is. Trump may be obnoxious, but Warren is a manipulator that needs to leave us all alone.
3
I think she is wonderful and Trump is a fraud, let's the election to settle who is right.
@yulia Except the democrats "go low", really low, to get what they want. They always have, in my memory. Michelle talking about dems going "high", republicans going "low", was amazing to anyone that reads more than this paper. Like collusion, obstruction, slander, lies about everything, which has to leave a taint, the point of it all. The economy is doing great, but this paper always looks for the grey lining.
I don't know that this article is saying anything more than that White racist misogynists will always vote for Donald Trump. Did any of these people on the street have any intention to vote for other Democratic candidates?
1
I think it's editorializing of the reporter to assume misogyny when the man from the barbershop can't stand to listen to her. She is hard to listen to, because she doesn't connect.
5
It depends on person. She apparently could connect with many people considering that she is one of the three top candidates in Dem field.
3
Trying to figure out how to get people to vote for intelligent-sounding candidates is a lost cause for Dems.
Adlai Stevenson could tell you that. So can John Kerry.
The dumbing-down of one's voice is apparently what the self-proclaimed smartest nation in the world requires.
Just ask not-unintelligent Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, his dad, or the current occupant of the White House. Each sounded like someone 'regular' when needed despite skills in nuclear science, or brilliant Ivy League careers...or by repeatedly lying with impunity, knowing that strong gestures make a bigger impact than strong vocabularies.
Warren should sound like herself. She stands for good ideas to help the masses. She explains herself with everyday language.
If that fails, we are doomed anyway.
126
@Honora I have yet to hear a single person that this actually matters to. If you're unable to objectively look at someone because of their family heritage, she doesn't need your vote.
8
@Barry If the American people want dumbed-down candidates, then how do you explain Barack Obama's two-term presidency? He's the exact opposite of that theory. He was never considered "a regular guy" (whatever that means), and, in fact, he was chastised for being highbrow and not folksy enough in some circles and for being considered The Second Coming by himself and his so-called worshippers. Nothing about him was viewed as everyday, even by his harshest critics. What gives?
5
@Honora
I am not a fan of Warren, but your comment that she used Native American heritage to get a faculity position in Harvard is a result of faulty research or dishonest initintions. It is simply used as a way to discredit her. While she told the story of her "heritage" she never used affirmative action in any way to obtain any position. From a Boston Globe investigation:
"The Globe closely reviewed the records, verified them where possible, and conducted more than 100 interviews with her colleagues and every person who had a role in hiring decisions about Warren who could be reached. In sum, it is clear that Warren was viewed as a white woman by the hiring committees at every institution that employed her."
End of Story
14
Elizabeth Warren comes from the white working class. She speaks to their issues and their lives very effectively. She is also persuasive, unlike any of the other candidates. Once she gets going in PA, MI and WI, she should do fine.
Good lord, there hasn't even been one primary in one state yet. Meanwhile, her poll numbers continue to rise.
8
Some men won't vote for her only because she's a woman. But a lot of women will vote for her because she's a woman. Let's hope the petty gender prejudices will just cancel each other out.
I don't like her idea of doing away with private health insurance-- it's too much, and it won't get her votes. She needs to move toward the middle just a little bit, and she'll win. Because we all know how all these grand ideas don't get implemented so easily, with the opposing party standing in the way of progress.
1
Many readers of the Times push back about pretty much everything written here about Warren. Unfortunately it's true, and wishful thinking won't change it.
I’ve admired Warren for years yet consistently encounter her unpopularity among working class whites, but even more so among blacks. You don’t need to speak with people in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and South Carolina, as I have; travel 2 hours north of New York City and you’ll hear it.
The left-wing publication Mother Jones analyzed Warren's immigration platform and found it "de facto open borders", (their words) in, "Are Democrats Now the Party of Open Borders?"
Mother Jones wrote:
"No one will ever be deported-except, presumably, for serious felons, though Warren doesn’t even say that. Expedited removal will be ended. The Border Patrol (can only) focus on...screening cargo, identifying counterfeit goods, and preventing smuggling and trafficking."
"(We've) previously criticized Republicans who accused liberals of wanting "open borders." President Trump tweets about this endlessly. But it’s hard to see much daylight between Warren’s plan and de facto open borders. CBP will not be permitted to patrol the border looking for illegal crossings; if border officers happen to apprehend someone, they’ll be released immediately."
The rise of the European right because of mass migration is nothing compared to what a mere threat of mass migration has done to America. Warren will lose based of her border policy alone.
4
I like Warren, but I like Sanders better.
I trust Sanders more not to cave into the Establishment, relative to domestic or foreign policy.
Warren, would be a fine VP, but her senate seat would be filled with an appointment by the MA Republican governor... I think.
Sanders won the Michigan and Wisconsin primaries, and as he has been working his entire life on behalf of ALL working people,
he will surprise pundits with his support in Middle America.
Yes, any smart, educated, evidence-based person has trouble with uneducated Americans who think that all that fancy educated talk is just a way to trick less educated people out of their rights, jobs and wealth. That is how nationalist, populist movements get started. The antidote is usually for a rich, powerful FDR type to rise up and champion the plight of the average guy. The closest we have to that today is Joe Biden. I love Senator Warren, but when she talks to the uneducated, she makes them suspicious. How about Biden-Warren? Spending time with Joe Biden will be good for Senator Warren to develop the common touch!
Her performances at the debates have been passionate but they will end up being used in attack ads against her in a presidential campaign.
I would love to vote against Trump in the upcoming election but if my only other option was Warren, it goes to Trump.
3
I guess you just need another Trump in order to vote against Trump.
Elizabeth Warren has a critical disability which she can't get rid of - she's a woman and she sounds like a woman. So don't listen to her if you don't like what she's saying.
But read what's she advocating. She's (and to a lessen extent Pete Buttigieg) are the among the vast Democratic presidential contenders that actually has a plan to fix government and reduce the gap between the super rich and the rest of us.
She's a brilliant thinker and brilliant doer.
If she gets nominated, I'm will move to a purple state so I can legally make my vote count and will follow all the rules to qualify to vote there. I will campaign hard for her in that state.
I loved hearing and watching her speech on 9/16 in Washington Square Park in NY - I lived a block away while making up my mind what to do for my career. She will become one of our best presidents. Quit echoing Tea Pary/Republican/Trumpian talking points to smear her.
If there are enough thinking people left who are honest and can vote in their own best intersets, wherever they are, Elizabeth Warren will be our President in 2020. It'll be a shock to see and listen to a woman president, but we'll be glad we did it. Warren is another FDR - the right president for one of the most dangerous times for America.
4
@BSmith Actually she does not sound like a women: too angry !
@BSmith Actually she does not sound like a women: too angry !
And something more: why do you play the 'woman card" if Warren herself did not play it back in 2016 ?
She did not endorse Hillary Clinton until she did get the nomination....did she (Warren) want to be sure to endorse the winner ?
I think this is telling a lot about her and also about her being very near, almost cozy to Sanders..
@Mary
Mary - The women I know sound angry a lot because they are angry at earning less money than men are paid, and many other reasons.
As I said, if you don't like to hear her, read what she thinks and says. She's written three books about her life as well as many scholarly articles as a law professor.
I can't stand to listen to our current present, his family members, or his many "representatives." But I make a point to read what he's saying to keep informed.
If you are informed about what's going on in our national goernment and the increasing disparity of wealth in America and around the world, you are very concerned as I am and realize that if we don't do something concrete about it, our democracy and our environment will not survive to support human or any other life.
Eilizabeth is a good sport and has been invariably polite in the debates. She doesn't even interrupt others. Perhaps you mistake enthusiasm for anger?
I like Warren, but I like Sanders better.
I trust Sanders more not to cave into the Establishment, relative to domestic or foreign policy.
Warren, would be a fine VP, but her senate seat would be filled with an appointment by the MA Republican governor... I think.
Sanders won the Michigan and Wisconsin primaries, and as he has been working his entire life on behalf of ALL working people,
he will surprise pundits with his support in Middle America.
As much as I hate to admit it, America still suffers from racism and sexism. Although I am a liberal African-American activist who considers himself a supporter of the economic populist agenda and therefore a supporter of Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders, I must admit that Mr. Sanders is a safer choice for Democratic nominee. As flawed as Hillary Clinton was, frankly she was not flawed enough to have deserved to lose a presidential election to Donald Trump. I believe she was a victim of sexism. If Ms. Warren's only electoral vulnerability is white working-class/blue collar voters in "flyover country" it is an electorally fatal one. Let's pray she is able to improve her standing among this critical voting bloc. She is our best candidate and would make our best president at this critical time in our history given the economic problems our economy and the majority of Americans in the middle and lower classes face. Ms. Warren is the most qualified candidate to restructure our economy to fix its economic injustices.
1
It's hard to win the American base when trump repeated one of his favorite campaign tomes, "I love the undereducated". Those particular Americans wallowed in the glow of his acceptance after Pres. Obama, Mr. Educated and Mr. Interested in ALL Americans, must have somehow made them feel like they couldn't be their true selves in a politically correct, more thoughtful world.
Senator Warren is the real deal. Those who think she wants completely open borders need to call her office and find out exactly what she believes. She believes in the laws of the country, the constitution, and is not one to cage children. Anyway, whatever you believe, know that she is a democrat and less likely to avoid climate science. She likes your children and grandchildren. Would you trust them with trump?
2
As an AFL-CIO staffer, I've watched Elizabeth Warren speak to union members and I can say that Paul Starobin, who fails to cite even one labor union member, misses the boat. Warren connects with workers evrywhere she goes.
She defeated Scott Brown precisely because she did so. She keeps rising in the polls for the same reason.
Moreover, her plans, speak to workers everywhere, despite Starobin's flimsy distortion of Warren's college tuition plan.
While I've yet to read "Madness Rules the Hour," I hope it reflects better research and writing than Starobin gives us in this piece.
6
She’s the best candidate by far. And watching Joe Biden saunter into the race and become the front runner for what seems no other reason than he’s a white male has been pretty demoralizing. How hard does a woman have to work? How much better does she have to be before we stop hearing things like - in one of the top recommended comments so far - “I don’t like the sound of her voice?” As a woman, I find this soul crushing. Go ahead America, vote for 50,000 roaches wearing a Donald Trump carcass because its rival is worse than that - she’s a woman. I just can’t even anymore.
282
@BBB
Medicare for all is why she won't president. People can get over the voice thing. They can't get over a candidate advocating a huge social and economic change that they simply don't want.
17
@BBB
I trust Sanders more than Warren not to cave to the Establishment relative to domestic or foreign policy.
His entire life, sanders has been working to better the lives of all working people, and to make this world a less violent, more compassionate world.
A Future To Believe In!
President Sanders 2020!
6
@BBB
"... for no other reason than he's a white male" whose popularity (always kind of dodgy until 2008) went through the roof when he became Obama's Vice President. At least from the standpoint of public image, the obviously good, decent, friendly, collegial, complementary relationship that Biden had with Obama brought out his best qualities and covered up his weaknesses. It's understandable that lower-information voters are still reacting to the feelings they had for Biden during those eight years when we could feel proud and confident the governing partnership in the Executive Branch.
Hard as it is for us political junkies to believe, an awful lot of people still really aren't paying attention to the Democratic race.
8
1. By herself, I do not think she motivates black voters particularly in the south
2. She will be portrayed as someone who will tax the pants off you
3. Medicaid for all needs to be re-framed as a public option where those with private insurance can stay with their insurance. This will require her changing her stance.
4. She suffers from Al Gore syndrome
4
Her critical vulnerability is that she falsely claimed to be a Native American.
How could such a person ever lead the Democrats? We are, after all, the ideological home of those whose only joy in life is cancelling people over cultural appropriation and problematic tweets.
4
@Patrick
She had a DNA test and it showed that she does indeed have native american ancestry.
So she picks a running mate who can appeal to those white working class voters.
4
Has the 2016 election so traumatized liberals that we must continue to fetishize the White Working Class Voter in a Diner?
Is this going to convince us to give sexists and racists a veto over the Democratic nominating process?
Let's not do that.
8
Warren has proven herself utterly untrustworthy on her background (lying for decades) and on her funding.
In my mind, this is heavy baggage.
3
@Bill
She had a DNA test and it showed that she does indeed have native american ancestry. So those who continue to claim that she has lied about this are the ones who misrepresent the facts.
Really? Seems like Trump doesn't have any trouble with being not trustworthy.
She'll lose just on her immigration stance with this voting block.
2
RE: "Does Elizabeth Warren Have a Critical Vulnerability?"
Elizabeth Warren is saddled with the greatest detriment possible for a candidate among a large number of voters. Worse than dishonesty. Worse than lack of morality. Worse than ignorance. Worse than lack of experience. Worse than ill intentions and obvious corruption. Worse than race. She is a woman. One only need to hear the comments regarding to being "shrill", "screeching", "preachy" to understand.
Many will deny it and come up with reasons and excuses why its "this woman" or "not at this time" or some other rationalization or justification of why they can't vote for her, other than her positions. Never mind it never seems explain how the same reasons and excuses don't apply to her male opponent(s) who are demonstrably worse in the same regard or other regard. EX. She lied VS Donald Trump's 14,000 lies.
11
@ Marie
Your observations are exactly correct, in the same way that Senator Warren’s plans and positions are thoughtful and appealing. And you explain why she cannot be elected president in 2020.
Some women can present themselves in a way to lessen the liabilities that they face in a sexist society. Palin tried this with some success. Warren could not and would not try- she would compromise herself.
Nominating Warren would be a statement of idealism and integrity that would give Democrats the greatest moral victory since 1984. I’d love to be wrong about that, but I don’t think I am. The thing is that, if Trump is reelected, 2020 will likely be the last election that mattered. Oh, some may be able to retreat into their bubbles for a while, as in 1985, but the rest of us ( including all my young patients) will be immediately and permanently shafted. Sometime thereafter the oceans will flood even the bubbles- both a metaphor and an inconvenient reality.
2
She outsmarted herself.
She jumped on Kavanaugh impeachment.
4 Democrats lost their seats in the Senate for voting impeachment.
This was a hasty, bad move.
3
Reduce everyone to some foolish identity label and hope for the best. There you have, in a nutshell, modern American politics. Warren's deficiencies as a candidate, meanwhile, are the same as what her supporters perceive as her strengths: she has too many ideas; and she has a priggish I-know-what's-best-for-you quality that reminds people that in reality the teaspoon of castor oil is about to be thrust down one's throat.
6
white working class voters elected trump on a platform of racism and xenophobia. stop chasing them. bring on the people who didn't vote. more people didn't vote than voted for trump. also, trump lost by 3 million votes.
1
She is a woman, highly educated, smart, able to speak in full sentences with a nice vocabulary. Now, why would a white working man vote for her? No good reason!
4
Warren has struggled with white uneducated people.
May I humbly suggest that the "struggle" isn't with Warren, but with the fact that uneducated people can be more easily duped into voting against their own interests? Not because they aren't hungry, but because the devil is in the details, and the details are the precisely the thing that Trump slaps a "Make America Great Again" sticker over and calls it a day.
If you are dumbing down your message to appeal to the lowest common denominator, aren't you already knee-deep in the Trump swamp?
9
Most of the angry and snarky put-downs of Warren ignore the reality that the GOP takes working folks for suckers every election cycle, while Warren has worked tirelessly on behalf of the neediest and most desperate among us — the folks corporations and their hired Republican lawmakers lie to and exploit more every year. Wake up and swallow your pride, and look at what Elizabeth Warren has done to help our neediest versus what Republicans have done besides serving corporations and the wealthiest. She’s working for YOU!
1
With her plans for everything, she comes across as a know-it-all school marme -- and an angry one, at that. She wants us to know she's a 'fighter,' and that she will be fighting all the time. I for one am a bit fatigued by the fighting metaphor's especially from some honked-off grandma.
Of course, white workers who have lost out to job and college opportunities because of affirmative action may not look kindly at the white woman who claimed to be American Indian in order to enhance her preferences.
And being lectured by a Harvard Law School professor about what's good for them comes across as grating and condescending. Just a couple thoughts.
4
I like her as a Presidential candidate, I guess that makes me an intellectual effete snob, but I could also see her as Joe Biden's chief of staff, developing and pushing legislation through Congress. We will see how the votes go.
1
We all know enough about these shoot-themselves-in-the-foot and own-the-libs voters to know they like dreary regressive cheats and liars who assault women and believe in their god-given right to American mediocrity and proclivities to shoot and pollute. I suspect no Democrat will please the intolerant and close-minded voters mentioned in this article. Warren is far too good for them, but perhaps their discomfort with the horrors Trump has wrought in their names will change their minds.
As someone who grew up in rural America and now lives in the city - I think the only drum Trump will need to beat if facing her is Pocahontas.
I go back home from time to time and man do people in very white communities hate how diversity is being 'forced down their throats'. They also talk about 'how easy minorities have it' and will point to people like Warren lying on applications. They don't care about her reasoning for doing it.
That and abortion+guns is enough for Trump to be reelected. Most of the people I talked to in my last trip home literally do not care about anything else.
2
these are tired arguments that we heard with hillary clinton (and somehow the other democratic candidates don't get called out like this in nyt op-ed columns...hmm, interesting, right?).
as a democrat, let's put the emphasis on voter registration and engaging people of color, especially black americans. another demographic that needs engagement and could easily become a strong/stronger constituent of warren/the party is young men of color. anecdotally, i've seen too many of my latinx brothers lured in by the machismo and celebrity of the likes of donald chump and the "governator" here in california.
godspeed, elizabeth warren. i'm with you.
Once she wins the nomination and those working class whites who shut off their TVs start to listen to her they will like what they hear. How could you not since she makes perfect sense and is the best person I have seen run in my lifetime? Also, she can get a pro-union mid-west white man like Sherrod Brown for her VP. Lastly, she is going to have to tone it down on the illegal immigration/border issues because that provokes a visceral reaction in some voters .
I am surprised and disturbed that the Times would print an article that merely states the obvious. Every candidate has vulnerabilities that can cause people to vote for their opponent. Perhaps Warrren wont get the votes of white voters who fled cities to get away from black people, but she certainly appeals to me and many other voters. It doesn’t take deep thinking to see that the presumptive Republican candidate has vulnerabilities too, but he won in 2016. We have elections to determine who the majority wants in government, and the voters discussed in this article are only one part of the electorate. I do not understand why the Times published this.
If white middle class voters for some reason go for Trump over Warren then that’s on them and they will deserve to fall further behind than they already are.
It all boils down to the fact that she is a woman. It has nothing to do with her plans or policies. Elizabeth Warren can't change her gender and these ignorant white working class people, and I am suspecting largely male, just cant see there way to voting for a woman. They are okay with one in a more subservient role like Sarah Palin as VP. If Warren is polling at 33% versus Biden at 38% and Bernie at 37% the issue is that she is not one of the "guy". You can't overcome this level and intensity of ignorance. It would be interesting to know how Kamala Harris, a black woman polls with these same people. It may be that they never will learn to vote in their own best interest instead of who Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, two white male fat cat elites tell them to. If so they will have to live wit the consequences as the rest of us need to move forward. I'm tired of their whine and their ignorant statements.
1
@AACNY
I suspect that if she were a man her demeanor would be interpreted as a show of strength, determination and of character. She is polling over all at 25% behind Biden. That is a substantial block of people. Conservatives have a habit of blaming everyone but themselves.
1
2 Dem presidents won whilst pulling a majority of the white male vote in the last century. Can we stop talking like they matter to a Dem victory?? THEY AREN'T.
Warren, with Sherrod Brown for VP -- that's a ticket that will get me out knocking on doors!
1
Warren should have some appeal to white working class voters compared with Trump. After all, she supports democracy which he doesn't, she is against corruption while Trump is extremely corrupt, ad she it relatively truthful while Trump lies all the time. Trump's main advantage may be that he is a racist. For people who have taken white flight this could have some appeal.
The 'white working class' has come to equate with trump's base of the willfully ignorant who distrust and dislike erudite arguments and solutions and prefer bluster and 'gut instincts'. trump and the GOP go to great lengths to cultivate the 'working class whites' sense of victimization at the hands of the 'elites' along the coasts. Counteracting this anti-intellectual mindset is Warren's greatest hurdle.
Standing in the way of Bernie Sanders.
Berie Sanders is clearly the most superior of the progressive candidates, he has got to be angry that the establishment is so arrogant that they would anoint Warren.
Tulsi Gabbard, clearly way better than Warren as a progressive and honest candidate.
Warrens American Indian heritage is pure arrogance.
Warren's biggest vulnerability is a rashness of reaction that leads to poor tactics. The DNA test was foolish optics. The knee-jerk call for Kavanaugh's impeachment is another example. Just plain dumb. There's little upside to those dumb moves, but plenty downside. She needs to stop preaching to the choir and maintain some judicious circumspection. There's a time to hector and a time to seem presidential.
Too bad, for I feel she's the only candidate who can beat Trump. And I'm not optimistic about that. There just aren't enough 13 Key macro-elective factors on the Democrats' side (see Alan Lichtman) to counteract the effective fearmongering that has underlain the successful counter-revolutionary Reagan Restoration.
Oh, well, it was good while it lasted, fellow humans. Or fair, at least. Time for species change...
1
I am so sick of the misogyny.
And I know there are women who perpetuate misogyny too. There were women foot binding in China, and still are women perpetuating female genital mutilation. So women Trump supporters really shouldn't shock anyone.
But still. Aren't there more sane and decent people than not in this country? We are going to elect, for a second time, a racketeering fraudster, habitual sexual assaulter, compulsive liar with a history of bankrupting businesses, mocking the disabled, attacking gold star families and war heroes (and now the ghost of war heroes), tweeting like a mean girl bully, toadying to Putin, surrounding himself with liars and crooks, barging into beauty pageant dressing rooms to ogle undressed teens, and wanting to date his own daughter--we are going to elevate him once more to the highest office in the land because he has a Y chromosome? He doesn't have a clue what he is doing or a Senate-confirmed cabinet, but he has male equipment.
That's better than a former self-made Harvard Professor whose worst sin is trying to connect with her DNA-proven native American heritage?
Yes, I and everyone my age have heard people say that "you can't give power to a woman." But aren't enough people just sick of that?
7
This flannel-shirted revulsion is just an extension of that demographic's attitude to Hillary; the clincher, for me, is how different the two women are in tone and substance (yet I have supported them both,) while resistance to them has the same din. Maybe these guys aren't over being nagged by their mothers as children; I was, but that hasn't stopped me from understanding that Warren's vision of a potential future is as closely aligned to my own as any politician's could be.
2
How Elizabeth Warren sees the white working class voter is evident in her instagram post from way back at the beginning of her campaign. She walked into her kitchen and declared "I'm gonna get me a beer". She proceeded to take a giant drink out of the bottle for all the voting public to see.
It seems to me that she sees non college educated whites as a group of people who have bad grammar and drink bottled beer. She's a phony on top of being a liar about her native american heritage. Yuck! The democrats can do better than her.
1
Anyone but Trump! America is lost if Trump wins another 4 years and under-educated white men will suffer greatly then. Those jobs are going.
1
All Warrens weaknesses will go away if Biden does the right thing and bow out (for family reasons), and give his wholehearted support to her. Bernie should too.
She would be so excellent at debating Trump. Her weakness is being female. But she is the very best candidate for the country.
Bernie and Biden are too old. Sorry, I agree with Jimmy Carter on that. But they also both have weaknesses that are more substantial on the issues. The Republicans do get the prize on sticking together.
The media should also show far more support and enthusiasm for the best candidate. Their 24/7 fascination with Trump got him elected. It was like rubbernecking though. We couldn't look away. Trump's platform was/is terrible for the US.
Bernie and Biden can still work on and with the A-team. They are much welcome and needed for support and ideas.
1
This would seem like a pretty serious vulnerability.
This editorial is spot on. Although Senator Warren is smart and has some excellent ideas, she will be tarred and feathered by Trump and the GOP SuperPACs as an East coast Harvard liberal. Moreover, she did not handle the Pocahantas issue as adeptly as she needed to. She cannot win in flyover country as is essential to winning in the Electoral College. Although he is not my favorite, I will likely vote for Biden in the primary - he is the only top candidate who has a chance of carrying Ohio.
2
It’s an opinion, not an editorial
I don't see a lot of people profiled in this piece who would vote for any Democratic candidate, Warren or not. It seems odd to interview so many self-avowed Trump voters who already plan to vote Trump in 2020 and then use that as evidence that Warren is unpopular. Are we really supposed to believe that these people would go Democratic for, say, Biden?
4
If a community that grew from "white flight" doesn't support Warren, it also won't support Biden. Perhaps the headline is a rhetorical question.
My reading of this (entire) article tells me there's plenty of support for her amongst the working class - at least the one's who are paying attention. And the Working Families Party endorsement helps.
3
Elizabeth Warren personifies Democrat's shoot-oneself-in-the-foot tendencies at their worst. She cannot get elected to the Presidency. It would be McGovern redux. A huge, avoidable mistake. I will still vote for her, but only under the duress of facing another 4 years of Trump.
47
@dmckj Yeah, what we really need is someone exactly like Trump, but with better hair and makeup.
7
@dmckj I agree. Also, I think the Democrats have been so busy trying to outdo each other in the debates and arguing over whose health care plan is best, they are losing sight of the big picture and inviting disaster. I haven't watched her closely but wonder if she is capable of articulating in a coherent and meaningful way why Trump is bad for us. Frankly, I'm not sure I have seen this in any of the candidates, though I may have missed something. Need to be able to say something more than "he's a jerk." It has to do more with civics, basic decency, and what we really mean by "the American way". We all (well at least the majority of us) agree on the need for some type of guaranteed healthcare and "public option" (whether Medicare or your Senator's health care plan). Let's leave the details of that for later and move on to the important stuff.
2
@dmckj When people compare Warren, or anybody else, to McGovern, they are completely forgetting history. Nixon was at the height of his popularity in early 1972. He had brought the boys home from Vietnam, sort of anyway because the body counts were way down. On the other side the Democrats were completely split. The old guard, Daley, Bailey, Meaney, all the old guys who had engineered the back room deals for decades had been squeezed out by the McGovernites who had taken over the party hierarchy, jammed through new rules that emphasized the primaries, and nominated for President the chair of the committee who engineered these changes. McGovern, as much as he was right in hindsight,,had zero chance.
Today we have a President that no one likes. His favorability ratings are consistently in the low to mid 40s and there has not been one day in his Presidency where it has reached 50% in the RCP average. And the Democratic Party is united. At this time four years ago, Republicans were aghast at the thought of a buffoon like Trump could become President. Yet they won. There are no buffoons among those running on the Democratic side. The electorate wants normalcy and I predict that they will get it.
12
If Warren made two changes to her campaign, she could possibly run and not just walk away with the nomination. First, the public option is much more popular than a shoved-down-the-throat Medicare for all. She would lose many, many votes in November if she secured the Democratic nomination just on that. Besides, given its dismal economics, it's unlikely to make it through even a Democrat-controlled Congress. Second, there's a difference between advocacy and stridency. She can leave the latter to Sanders and Trump, neither of whom has any room to the upside thanks to their bellicose manner. Advocacy also means listening to other points of view, and not insisting on having all the answers all the time. Elizabeth Warren is extraordinarily well qualified to be President, but any successful candidate should be able to broaden their appeal without selling out.
2
I can't remember a time when Warren has showed compassion for those who disagree w her. Even tho I really like her, I don't think she wd be a president who could "heal" our nations and reach across the aisle and build bipartisanship. I think Biden can and will do this which is why he has my vote.
2
This article gets to the heart of the matter of the Trump supporter. I thought it telling that the author hears from one respondent that the man can’t stand her voice, he turns off the television. Would this supporter ever support a woman for president? Probably not, nor will any supporter of Donald Trump support a woman candidate, as they, women, can’t possibly hold the office of President. They don’t have the manly qualities these voters seem to crave. As a boomer man who remembers high school, there are plenty of people my age and younger will never vote for a woman President. They want an authority figure, and I guess DT fills the bill for them. They also are poorly informed, as in the respondent who claimed Warren will tax them, when her plan is to raise taxes on the wealthy, not the middle class. Faux News junkies? This election may depend on a segment of these voters to vote blue, but Dems are going to have to turn out their base in droves to prevail.
She could probably beat Trump, but there is a risk of closer margins in battleground states than a nominee without these electoral weaknesses. In addition to the electoral college, I worry she would lack strong coattails in red-leaning, potentially competitive Senate races, and might even be a liability.
Without 50 seats, any president would struggle to implement the agenda they ran on, not to mention the implications for the judiciary. A Democratic president could still address foreign and trade policy, but Warren's key selling points are mainly domestic and fiscal, which is exactly what she would be unable to get done, leaving her looking ineffective.
Would it not be a better strategy to find the candidate best placed to help the party's Senate candidates in GA x 2, CO, AZ, NC, at the expense of some turnout in coastal blue areas? Someone who can still excite the progressive base, but without turning off independents? That person would also be well equipped to ensure the electoral college is not even close.
I doubt that people who are OK with voting for Trump, will ever vote for Dem candidate who ever he/she may be. Trump provides for them everything they need. Hateful rhetoric, they love, tax cut, regulation cut. They don't need healthcare access, they don't need access to education for their children, they want their children to struggle as they did. I don't think Dems should worry about such voters. They need to energize their base and by proximity energize those who are not so enthusiastic about whole political process by convincing them that changes are coming
2
Leaving the circumstantial singularity of Obama out of the mix, Warren is the maze-brightest Dem possibility to emerge in three decades...
As far as the over-the-top economic progressivism...
Just keep re-assuring yourself that no one could be as dumb as Bernie sounds...
For clarity, have been ranting for racial/gender/gender-identity equality and an assault weapon ban in this country since the NYT has had comment boxes...
And saw Bernie up close as mayor for a good while, well before that...
He was a good mayor...
His heart is still in the right place, but his brain has succumbed to gravity...
And – longer term – he’s a good part of the reason there’s a wood-burning power plant in Vermont, but no nuclear one...
All Warren has to do, in moving to the center after the convention, is do it adiabatically...
Green Parties are as Green Parties do...
Sort of like moving to Canada, without having to get the sofa down five flights of stairs or changing zip codes...
PS
While the Teacher's Union(s) may have kept Bloomberg from tossing his hat in – it would be great to see Liz take them to school...
3
Every candidate has critical vulnerabilities. Take Trump. Please! He has dozens, but they don't seem to matter to his supporters. (But then, an athletic supporter doesn't care who is wearing it, does it.)
The question is not whether she or Pete or Kamala or even Scranton Joe or any of the others can be liked by voters in PA, MI, or WI. It is whether, to voters who don't 'like' them, whether those voters would rather vote Against the the Democrat or Against Trump. NOt likeable, but less unlikable.
Who will win the 'Just hold your nose and vote anyway. It matters.' voters.
For example, in 2016 an awful lot of voters held noses and voted against Hillary because of a fiercely effective, all-out smear campaign. It's not all Comey's fault. She was out-FOXed.
1
Have you seen or heard her stump speech? If that is not a barn burner for lower middle class white people, what is?
Sure Trump can do his usual act, calling her name after name, but when you put Warren on stage with Trump, she will literally eat him alive.
I would love the hear some of the moderators in a debate (if he shows up which may not happen if he decided to run from the White House) ask them point blank: America is at the highest level of income and wealth inequality since early in the last century. How would you fix that?
Or, the US hast has the highest health care costs in the world with poor incomes and declining longevity. How would you fix that?
I cannot imagine what Trump would say other than call her a socialist, do you? But I know exactly what she'd say to both of them.
1
I gave to the Warren campaign twice already but here is what gives me pause now. In a local race for Queens District Attorney, she did not choose the candidate backed by the Teachers Union
who eventually won in a hard fought election. I could not get her
campaign to answer anything about why she was backing the opponent of teachers choice after so much emphasis on her being a teacher. The campaign's lack of response but continuous over solicitation for events and funding turned me off. But I will back her 100% if she is the nominee.
And here is a petty thing to add. I know that some people in some regions will see her lack of substantial jewelry or adornment to be an elitest kind of thing. People may not say it- but I could be pretty
sure they think it. Reminds me of the flag pin thing with Obama.
3
I'd like to see Biden bow out, and throw his support behind Amy Klobuchar. Under 60, moderate, smart, midwest, and without many of the platform positions that scare moderate voters. Go Amy
5
Right now Elizabeth Warren is probably one of the Democrats I could vote for in the primary, along with Andrew Yang and Pete Buttigeig. I worry about her age, as I do with some of the other candidates, and I suspect she will suffer the loss of some votes due to being a woman, far to the left, and the Pocahontas slur. I don’t agree with her or any of the candidates on every topic. I don’t favor reparations, decriminalizing illegal border crossings or abortion on demand and the leftward tilt of the Democrat party is worrisome. I’d like to see them tone down the “wokeness” and focus on health care costs and universal insurance and on strengthening the social safety net as well as the economy in general.
Wasnt her polling during her last senate race underwhelming? And this was during the blue wave. No matter what I'll be voting Democratic, but I do wonder how Senator Warren will fare with constituences beyond college educated whites. Sure she brings the fight but can she unite?
1
Elisabeth Warren has the same vulnerability as every other Dem candidate: an electorate that listens to, and is swayed by, the propaganda on Fox News and other conservative outlets. It is not her gender, her native American moment, or her wonkiness that limits her appeal. It is the tsunami of ignorance sweeping this nation. All these many efforts to parse and analyze candidates simply ignore the elephant in the room. Yeah, that elephant.
3
Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
When I think that these three states just barely put Trump into the W.H. and gave us all the subsequent chaos and corruption.
Why oh why didn't Hillary put up a tent next to the "Blue Wall" and stay put, as opposed to campaigning in Az?
Can anyone supply an answer?
2
@David Henry
Hubris...
"...she needs to figure out this puzzle."
You don't suppose the "puzzle" has anything to do with her gender?
You don't suppose the "puzzle" has anything to do with the political fact that "non-college-educated working-class voters, and especially white workers" have a long history of voting for their prejudices rather than for their best economical interests?
“No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H. L. Mencken, 1926
1
Seems to me that most pundits misplace the cause of rising protofascism in the US. The short answer is: follow the money.
See Graph #2 in this Econ Policy Institute study: bit.ly/EPI-study
What is shows:
Roughly, from 1945 to 1972 GNP double and the median (meaning everyone's) wage went up in lock step with it. Since 1972 GNP has gone up another 150% but the median wage has been flat.
As some workers wages have gone up (Tech/Health etc) & some in good unions (7%) floated along, it means that the broad majority of workers have experienced 47+ years of declining expectations in an economy that has grown 150%. Most gains went to the <1%. Essentially quarantining the wealth created from the rest of society keeping if from generating added demand. This got us an opioid crisis, the protofascism & Trump.
A trend like this cannot be sustained w/out complicity from elites in both parties. This has created a growing seam in our society that is so obvious Putin can see if from his window, & Trump+ GOP are exploiting it.
The effect on workers is severe.
"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me...They [are] careless people... they smash up things and creatures and then retreate back into their money, their vast carelessness or whatever ...[holds] them together and let other people clean up the mess they had made." What F. Scott is describing are Money & Power junkies. Like all junkies they’re skilled at making a compelling case for their wants.
I, too, love Elizabeth Warren, and hope and pray she becomes our next president. My trust in her core values, instincts, decency and desire to do the best for average Americans is the basis for my strong support of her.
But her problem with the white working class will persist because she represents the dominant cultural tribe which calls whiteness "problematic," masculinity "toxic" and which mocks working class white people as bumpkins and bigots, mocks their accents, their lack of college, their taste in beer, their patriotism, their religiosity, their traditionalism.
Liberals howl their contempt for working class whites - or really, anyone who has the temerity not to agree with them - and in the case working class white people, use their enormous cultural power to "punch down."
THAT is the albatross that hanging around every Democratic nominee's neck, including Warren, whether it fits personally or not.
If Warren can transmit the understanding that it's possible to disagree with her without proving oneself a bigoted, unsophisticated ignoramus, she might have a chance. But she'll have to go after her fellow liberals as hard as Trump.
2
She doesn't appeal to the "white flight" generation or their progeny? Fine, those are the hardliners that can't be a priority. They are not the entire "white working class."
However, white working class voters do have concerns, and she does need to increase her appeal by acknowledging their fears and bringing them around to her solutions. She skips the acknowledgement part, as when she explains M4A with ideological and structural arguments about health industry profits, or oversimplifying by saying you can keep your doctor, or appearing to evade answering questions about keeping private plans. She needs to respect the intelligence of her audience by describing in concrete terms the provisions that would fix the things people are concerned about: Medicare as it is now, without supplementary plans, is far from perfect - how is her plan better; will hospitals be able to stay in business with government rates; underscore that everyone is enrolled and no one need worry about gaps in coverage when you change or lose a job; no extra deductibles, copays, etc.; right now your employer is deducting pay from your paycheck and using it to pay their share of your health insurance premium - that is money that you need to fight to get back under a M4A plan, and it is money that will go toward the higher taxes you will need to pay (yes, admit that or people will know you are hiding something).
Acknowledge legitimate fears or you will just confirm the fear that you are an elitist.
1
I think part of the issue is that Warren's offered solutions tend toward the technocratic, using formulas and means testing to target aid, as opposed to more simple-to-understand universal solutions that are available to all. Working class people are sick of having to wade through red tape and bureaucracy only to find that they don't qualify, or that the benefit is less than anticipated, and therefore don't trust such programs.
Compare the ACA with Social Security or Medicare - the former, while clearly at least a marginal improvement on how things were, is unpopular and under constant attack. The latter two are not just popular - they are untouchable.
So, I don't think it's that people don't like the issues she's talking about. It's that they don't trust the solutions offered.
Everybody has a critical vulnerability. But having multiple critical egregious vulnerabilities did not prevent a certain president getting elected. The Pocahontas vulnerability happens to be her's. Depends on how you look at things. In Australia because of the extreme hostility to Indigenous people. many do not want to claim it; but the standard of being allowed to claim Indigineity is much freer here- but that might not be to our credit. Of course in the USA it is different and the reader of this is almost certainly more of an expert on US stuff than I could ever be. But the fact is, Warren's family had anecdotal and family lore awareness of some Indigineity; if anything there seems to be family lore pride in having some Indigenous background. That isn't so bad since the blood test showed she did have some in her family background. Her claim on it to get into college may be questionable. But isn't the mistake of a young woman a grey area and forgivable especially since she apologised. Well the current president has been forgiven a lot more than that- let's face it; and he has never apologised in his life.
Ms Warren was a special needs teacher- which points to noble aspirations; she briefly became a lawyer and then returned to helping the vulnerable and disadvantaged. A bit different to Trump. As far as left wing socialism goes she is not much different to leaders in most of the industrialised West. It won't do her any good because I can't vote but Lizzie has my vote.
2
Warren would make a great head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She's not our best presidential candidate.
4
People need to hear what Warren is saying, not what people (mostly right-wing media and Republicans) are saying about her.
3
The father of the tectonic shift of the Democratic Party back toward its roots—
Is Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont. Yes, he's wise enough not to be a member of the "party" as presently constituted, but of course caucuses with it. Some foolishly hold that wise choice against him.
Senator Elizabeth Warren, who is ideologically joined-at-the-hip to Bernie, failed to support him in 2016—or we could have had a Sanders/Warren ticket and no Blight of Tump.
Bernie is the real thing, has the complete vision, time proven, a true gift to our body politic. And once again, Warren may be a valued lieutenant as vice president.
3
@srwdm
I, too, support Sanders, and I am confident that he will do well! A Future To Believe In!
I like Warren, but as VP... for now.
But Warren's Senate term would be filled with an appointment by the Republican MA governor... I think.
2
Warren would lose to Trump. She is Hillary 2.0 only worse. Schoolmarmish, granny glasses, sensible haircut -- these and more are unfair image problems, but politics is not fair. The image is compounded by all her detailed "plans" that are too complex and wonkish to appeal to the voters she need. She is the candidate that scares me the most, not because her ideas are too progressive, but because she will lose to Donald Trump.
3
Excuse me, she's also 'struggled' with black voters as well. That's one reason why South Carolina's primary is so important to the Democratic Party, even though S. Carolina is a very red state. How black South Carolinians cast their ballots in the Democratic Primary will be a strong indicator if she has made inroads into this key segment of the Democrats.
There also needs to be more attention paid to both her myriad proposals(and Bernie's as well) that seemingly come out on a week by week basis. They might turn on her supporters but ignoring the fact that many middle-of-the-road voters are leery of yet more government programs and that both she and Sanders always seem to be so casual about where the money is coming from to pay for these.
We, and the media, need to keep reporting and being attentive to the facts while curbing our enthusiasm to jump on one bandwagon or another.
The objections mentioned in this piece are driven by visceral reactions, and a lack of information and/or a lack of actually thinking through how Warren's policies would directly affect them. Well, you can't cure misogyny over night. And, unless these folks start paying more attention to the facts, Warren may not be able to win a lot of them over. All she can do is to continue to frame the problems and her prescriptions with clarity and moral rectitude. And let's hope that the Democrats can get a really good turnout next year, to offset these voters.
1
Unfortunately , most of the working class will vote against their own best interests ; entrenched in their own way of thinking simply because of either gender bias or bias against what they deem as the (educated) elite . Never mind that she also worked her way up ; they are not interested in knowing anything such as the fact that taxes will only be raised on the very wealthy . Yes I agree that the system has been rigged in favor of the very wealthy , and never more so than under Donald Trump . She has my vote , because she is the only one who has presented her solutions to solving some of the problems we face as a nation . Like her or not , she will try to make this country a better place with a better playing field for all . With the deficit in the trillions and more so since Trump was elected ; I also bear in mind that some of those plans will not see the light of day . As to the lady who picks on forgiving college debt as a reason for not liking her because she dutifully paid hers off ; I dutifully worked hard , had cuts in pay so frequently a head spinning number of times , while management got richer , I understand . It was what it was , and that's why she gets my vote . I implore people to do their research and vote judiciously .
1
“She’ll tax me,” insisted a 49-year-old high school graduate who works at a town agency.......whose salary, medical coverage, vacation, and benefits are literally funded by taxpayer dollars.
You can't really help human beings like this whose idea of society begins and ends with 'me, myself and I'.
There's something called the common good.
It's generally a blind spot with right-wing voters.
Taxes are the price of a decent civilization....and I don't mind paying a few dollars more to fund a decent civilization....as many countries successfully do.
Elizabeth Warren's passion, her IQ, her ethics and her charisma will carry her to victory in 2020.
Those who don't vote for her will be voting for the Reverse Robin Hood 2017 Trump 0.1% Welfare Act that is literally bankrupting the country so the rich can own a bigger yacht.
Some voters cannot be reached with appeals to the greater good.
Sad.
41
Yes. All she talks about are handouts.
Also, could she look any more insane when she speaks?
8
And don't forget, Warren's not doing all that well with black voters, either. Two big constituencies. That might mean the winning candidate is someone else, as much as the media loves her. ...I can hear the Republicans playing up her background as an academic, a favorite "elitist" group that somehow plays particularly badly among the working class. At the very least, she has to run with an appealing vp. Biden cant be anyones vp, so either he has to head the ticket with Warren in the second spot, or add Bernie, Butteigieg, or Yang into the mix
2
I think the big problem is with the Democratic party in general. They have no leadership whatsoever. And to the extent there are prominent Democrats like Schumer, Pelosi, Nadler, etc., they are not both willing and able to plan Democratic strategy in terms of public relations.
Nothing could be more important right now than *somebody* in that party stepping up to fill this void.
Not this white, working class voter.
Regarding Medicare-for-all, if she had actually done her homework and benchmarked healthcare systems from other rich countries, Warren would know that hybrid public/private systems are the norm. Our big neighbour to the north, Germany, has the Krankenkassen (highly regulated state-sanctioned health insurance companies), but people can also chose to be privately insured. She would also know that in most rich countries, people don't get health insurance through their employers.
2
And the reason to follow the "norm" is what?
1
As soon as Warren has to publicly admit that Medicare for all will require tax hikes on those middle-class workers, she'll be dead in the water and so will Democrats if she is our nominee. It's no doubt true that Medicare for all would be better and cheaper in the long run, but it is certain defeat in the short run, i.e. the next election.
3
How come you are unable to see the math of M4A? If taxes raise 10 dollars but you no longer have to pay 20 dollars you come out ahead. The focus on just the taxes raising seems dishonest to what the plan actually is and is used by insurance companies to try to justify their existence.
1
@Shannon
Shannon, you're right. Math is on your and Warren's side. But human psychology is not. Most voters, alas, will say "I might not get sick next year, but I for sure will have to pay more in taxes."
As a fully committed Warren supporter who worries about her vulnerabilities, this piece is pretty strong nightmare fuel for me. Note how few of the criticisms are grounded in actual policy difference; they're either distortions (the working class guy who thinks his taxes will go up) or pretty poorly disguised misogyny ("the voice"). I have no hope that our media landscape and political culture is set up to dispel these myths, or push back on bias.
I'm for Warren because she seems unique among the Dem contenders in both appreciating the magnitude of the structural problems that abetted Trump's rise, and having a theory of how to wield power to address those problems. I've been pleasantly surprised at how good a politician she's becoming: warm and relatable in a way that Sec. Clinton never was. I wish I had more confidence that our society and culture is ready for her; the consequences of losing next year are almost too painful and scary to contemplate.
4
@Fred DiChavis taxes for the middle class will go up under Warren. She keeps dancing around it and dodging the question. See her interview on Colbert last night.
3
@Fred DiChavis
The only way to pay for everything she has promised is raising taxes on the entire middle class and up.
There is not enough money even if you took 100% of the money from the "rich" as she calls them.
His taxes will go up. He is right.
@LonghornSF They've already gone up under Trump, and they will continue to do so as he sucks all the financial resourced of the country for the billionaires, and robs the country of our natural heritage, pollutes the air, fouls the ground and the water. As we pay increased taxes under Trump we get worse than a zero return. We get a minus return. And you're talking about a very small tax increase with a huge return. Astonishing.
1
I am a 42-year-old black man born in Detroit and raised in Taylor, Michigan, one of the Midwestern, white, working-class suburbs references by Mr. Starobin. My social media feeds are full of photos of my friends from high school on the UAW picket lines. Amongst these friends, political support for Trump, Sanders and Biden is pretty strong; the demographic isn’t as politically monolithic as the media often presumes. I have yet to hear these friends discuss Elizabeth Warren except to reference her economic policies that — despite presumably being the beneficiaries of such policies — they often meet with disdain. If I were Warren, instead of holding a rally in NYC, I’d spend some time in Romulus or Kettering or McKeesport so those folks can see how her policies would benefit them.
The Sanders, Biden and some of the Trump supporters are there if she can deliver the message in a bandwidth where they can hear it. She also doesn’t have built-in appeal to Midwestern black voters (e.g., Southern origin, soulful/folksy, overtly religious, amicably flawed, social centrist or black herself), but I think they can also be convinced, with the right pitch. Her policies would benefit many of them, too.
Incidentally, my current home city of Davis is an affluent Northern California college town. Support for Warren is off the charts here. That support, of course, can only take a candidate so far.
10
The author urges Sen. Warren somehow to obtain the affection of a cohort that has voted against its economic interest since at least 1968. No one can. It is gone.
Trump offers only revenge for the reforms of the 1960s and '70s. The only way to attract voters moved by vileness is to join him on the low road. Taking that tack will drive away the Democratic base, especially what euphemism deems its 'urban/inner-city' core.
This does not argue for shutting the white working class out. The past four years document the tragedy of pretending to be president of all while governing for less than half. Instead Sen. Warren is invoking time-honored and ideally widely-held values of vigor, honor, honesty, decency, and equality. There will be victory in that.
8
In Pennsylvania, not only would Warren lose the white working class, she would not do well among seniors, affluent suburbanites, and African Americans.
Seniors believe “Medicare for All” will result in a dilution of their Medicare coverage.
Affluent suburbanites would expect higher taxes and less access to medical care than provided by their private health insurance.
African Americans see her as completely out of touch with their lives, and her plans as “pie in the sky”.
Unlike in Massachusetts, a Democrat as far left as Warren has never won a state wide election in Pennsylvania.
4
In Senator Warren's 2012 run for Ted Kennedy's former seat she defeated the poster boy for white working class voters; Scott Brown with his old pickup truck and workingman's jacket( Transparent props that fooled no one with common sense). So it is possible for her to win sufficient numbers of white working class votes. But, it must be combined with strong African American support and turn out. That, at this point, may in fact be more of a weakness.
4
Fear that Warren's gender makes her unelectable might just reflect leftover assumptions about old-time sexist rules governing male-female contests. Maybe it means that it is difficult to visualize a debate stand-off between her and Trump, particularly one in which she bests a sitting male president. Maybe it also means that it is problematic imagining a debate stand-off between Trump and Biden, even one in which Biden wins on presidentialness, but Trump wins on aggressiveness.
My hunch: think Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King.
3
Warren has yet to be truly challenged or tested. The press coverage has been nothing short of adulation. But we got a taste of what Warren will be like when she is challenged from the debate where Delaney suggested that Warren's plans may not make economic sense. The network had Warren on split screen and she looked very close to exploding in anger. (She did call Delaney spineless - nice way to separate yourself from the name calling bully in the White House). When she is finally challenged in a bigger way, it could get ugly.
3
If anyone can overcome the challenges faced by a highly educated, white, female, American political candidate in this climate; it is Elizabeth Warren.
7
I don't think the white, non-college voters are coming back to the Democrats -- no matter who is the Democrat candidate.
They have historically voted GOP since 1980. Only once - Bill Clinton - did their preference change to around 50%.
Let's focus on a demographic that we can win.
8
No need to parse this paradox too finely. Never underestimate the role of resentment and jealousy in human affairs. Applies to the public as well as the personal. A smart woman, who has pulled herself up by her own hard work, and yes, intellect will stimulate a lot of resentment in lots of people who have not done so. Nothing new in that.
10
Eh, who cares about working class voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin?
Let's just run up the vote in solid blue districts by running radical candidates, and then cry into our kombucha and rage against the "moderates," or the electoral college, when Trump's strategy, of sitting back and letting Democrats defeat themselves, wins again.
4
@Patrick,
They manage to have affordable health care and higher education in many places in the world. Why can't the so called richest country in the world figure it out?
2
@Amsterdammer
Probably because the Democrats haven't tried hard enough to emulate the tactics of Mao's Cultural Revolution.
If a couple more election cycles of drinking our own kool-aid, driving away all of the cis white males and canceling our own Senators doesn't do it, then maybe breaking out the red armbands and mobilizing the youth for a campaign of pure terror will be in order.
After all, if the voters are too repelled by our party to vote for their self-interest, then we have no choice but to force them to love us, right?
(hashtag sarcasm)
@Amsterdammer
They don't have a US Constitution, including Electoral College. If we copy others, then that suggests we were never so special in the first place.
None of her everything totally free somehow plans will ever make it through congress.
We know this because she has intentionally avoided any discussion of how they actually become law.
Hopefully people will see right through the bribing of votes with no real benefit. But there are lots (most) of Democrats who arent smart.
5
Both Elizabeth Warren's and Bernie Sanders' present uncompromising approaches to their progressive policy goals. They only concentrate on the final benefits, but not on the details of how to get there- which really are the concerns of the average voter, who need to know not only the costs, but the time frame and the unavoidable dislocations such aggressive agendas entail. Questions on the transition to Medicare for all and how it will affect cost and access to healthcare will lie high on many peoples agenda; can the healthcare system respond quickly enough to the changes without affecting quality of service? If working in the health care or insurance fields how and when will the changes affect my job? Similarly for a carbon-free energy future, how long can I drive my car? - I cannot afford a new one. What about the price of gas for my car, or that of gas/oil for heating my house? In the transition to a new electric grid costing trillions of dollars, how is that affecting my electricity prices? or how can I afford a transition to electric heating for my house and the cost of upgrading the insulation and windows? Where is all that money come from for these changes plus free college tuition, college debts forgiveness? How will it not raise my taxes?
There is plenty uncertainty, especially if Liz and Bernie remain committed not to explain the how and when. Some details are found on their websites, but the average voter will need a clear and simple answer without going there.
4
Biden on the other hand will struggle to an even greater extent with ALL demographics when in the general election, his cognative decline and inability to keep pace with Trump becomes apparent...so go ahead and nominate Biden, to your own peril.
7
Warren's statement in the last debate, "I know what is broken and know how to fix it," is too reminiscent of Donald Trump's "I alone can fix it."
Warren has made too many promises she cannot keep and has staked out too many far left positions that she will simply not be able to walk back, although behind the scenes she is reassuring the party establishment she will be more moderate if she gets the nomination. That will leave the Dems with the worse of both worlds--disappointed progressives, who may not turn out, and the rest of the party faithful, who won't know where she really stands on the issues.
But she spends hours posing for selfies! And that means she will be an effective executive? No more than snacking on fried everything at the Iowa State Fair does, I'm afraid.
I hope the current infatuation with Warren will run its course, for several reasons. But mainly because she will not defeat Donald Trump.
7
This so-called "paradox" strikes me as kinda made up. The author was talking to non-college educated white voters, people who by-and-large voted for or are more sympathetic to the views of the incumbent. A number of them were quoted openly saying they're going to vote for him again. And we know that historically American's of all political affiliations often vote against their own economic interests if the passions of a ideological or culture conflict supersedes any economic priorities. With all due respect to the author and the process, these voters' views on Warren are about as relevant and telling as my views on Mark Sanford or Bill Weld. If you were never going to reach a certain type of voter because they're simply not available, it doesn't make much strategic sense to worry about what they think.
8
OK now she got herself just too popular for the elite. See they were playing her off against the arch enemy of the donors who buy politicians. Bernie, who terrifies the ultra wealthy and corporations. Gee they may have to stop stealing from the rest of us and pay a fair share, you know like under Eisenhower that turn coat, and darn that turncoat of a president, he had the economy booming. I grew up in that era and life was easier more fun for the middle and lower classes, and the blue collar workers were well treated too. Sigh! Of course racism was..well it is not much better today let us say. Sure there were lots of problems but only one parent had to work and so on. And that nosey parker Eisenhower warned us against the military industrial complex. Gee I wonder why? What was the last allotment? I know it was more than all the other nations' combined. For what by the way? To keep us safe, no to keep the people who make war equipment very rich.
So Wall Street patted Warren on the head in hopes she could be brought in to the fold. But now she is just too popular and must be smeared. But I applaud her and like that she is enlightening people that they do not have to suffer and do with out so the rich can make even more money. It is grand to have two progressives in the race. Helps to undo the right wing propaganda that moderates are the ticket. Yes they are the ticket to the same old grift in DC.
3
@cheerful dramatist. You know they’re both rich, right?
@Jackson Rich? maybe in your world but they earned every penny and worked really hard too. Bernie sold a book, is he to be faulted that it became a best seller. She taught at Harvard, I do not know what the pay is but you go be a Harvard professor and think yourself rich if you want to. They both came from impoverished back grounds and were, forgive them, really smart. And a Senator's pay is not a heck of a lot when you think of rents in DC. But go ahead and fault them on working hard and making money and actually working for the people rather than taking bribes and only serving the rich. speaking of rich. Now those other candidates are really rich because they allow themselves to be water boys for the ultra rich and corporations. Skip Harvard and become a politician and take bribes.
1
I certainly agree with Mr. Starobin that Ms. Warren is not perfect and that there is certainly room for improvement in the way she conducts herself and her campaign, but, having followed her closely since she joined the race for the Democratic nomination and having read her book, "A Fighting Chance," she is well ahead of every other contender.
She is tireless in her efforts to succeed; she is able to succinctly state what needs to be done and how to do it; she has presented detailed ideas for how she will function as our next president; and the idea that she may not be electable because she is a woman is pure hogwash.
4
I certainly agree with Mr. Starobin that Ms. Warren is not perfect and that there is certainly room for improvement in the way she conducts herself and her campaign, but, having followed her closely since she joined the race for the Democratic nomination and having read her book, "A Fighting Chance," she is well ahead of every other contender. She is tireless in her efforts to succeed; she is able to succinctly state what needs to be done and how to do it; she has presented detailed ideas for how she will function as our next president; and the idea that she may not be electable because she is a woman is pure hogwash.
I certainly agree with Mr. Starobin that Ms. Warren is not perfect and that there is certainly room for improvement in the way she conducts herself and her campaign, but, having followed her closely since she joined the race for the Democratic nomination and having read her book, "A Fighting Chance," she is well ahead of every other contender.
She is tireless in her efforts to succeed; she is able to succinctly state what needs to be done and how to do it; she has presented detailed ideas for how she will function as our next president; and the idea that she may not be electable because she is a woman is pure hogwash.
A "critical vulnerability" is that several white working-class people in Massachusetts parking lots and on the street don't like Elizabeth Warren?!
Before interviewing each, find out if they watch Fox News as their favorite "news" channel? Also, some working class people: hate Democrats and liberals, don't like women politicians in general, are resentful of know-it-all, well-educated professionals with secure and decent paychecks.
Or maybe they are afraid if Senator Warren is elected, she stop the sale of automatic weapons, or she won't not ban all abortions.
This article feeds the negativity infusing political analysis these days. Well, who wants to read good news, anyway?
If Starobin wants to interview people in MA about Elizabeth Warren, talk to the liberals to find out what they like about her (something positive for a change); talk to those who say they are Independents, because they make up about 42% voters and they are swing voters too.
The Democrat who is going to win is the Democrat who can bring us together--put our Humpty-Dumpty voters back together again that Trump and the GOP pushed off the wall.
3
What a woman said at McDonalds or a man said in a barber shop seems to form the basis of this opinion. It is not only anecdotal, it is backwards looking. Blue collar men will vote for Warren because their wife told them to.
2
Steve Bullock, as VP with Biden or with Warren, or as the presidential candidate himself. The key to victory is indeed winning back PA, WI and MI. That is the sine qua non.
1
To the young mother in Rockland who paid off her student loans and does not like the idea of forgiving the student loans of others:
OK, so how about ending the singling out of student loans for especially harsh treatment in bankruptcy? How about treating student loans the same as most other debts, including the debts Trump wiped out in his numerous bankruptcies?
Or is Trump special? Why does he and the rest of the business community get to stiff their creditors while students cannot?
Students are people, too, my friend.
12
Yes, all she talks about are handouts, and who funds those?
For Ms. Warren's plans to work, she has to pull off a real coup, as far as funding is concerned.
She has to get states, some of which are already in a fiscal bind, to agree to match funding with the federal government (part of her plan), on a huge scale (on the order of $500 billion over 10 years, and ongoing).
She has to convince Congress to agree to a wealth tax plan, generating $2.75 trillion over 10 years. Wow! Our U.S. GDP is only about $19.4 trillion.
Warren's plans may be backed by spreadsheets, but the funding column, thus far, is blank (or filled in with imaginary numbers). This is a good reason to back a more moderate position.
Plus, could she look any more insane when she talks?
3
No one in the Joe Sixpack crowd has read any of Warren's position papers. They are important for her to gather the far-left progressives in the party but meaningless to Joe. She needs to write about changes that would give Joe a decent life. Joe wants a job with fair wages and good benefits. That's all, and with a plan to make that happen Warren can win Joe's buddys.
Thanks to the workers at GM, Warren has an opportunity to align herself with Joe and his buddies. Democrats have always been supporters of the union movements in this country, the Republicans are the union destroyers. Democrats as a whole need to pick up that ball and run as hard as possible.
Since the loss of union power, we have seen quality and precision decline. While the progressives may not feel aligned to those who work in typical union jobs, they are more intertwined than they think. With a strong union movement, things like “Medicare for all” would have a hollow ring.
Warren needs to campaign on a position that the right-to-work laws have damaged the middle class and the country as a whole. She needs to talk about the need for job training, structure and compensation that the unions would provide.
Basically Warren (and the rest of the Democratic party) need to disavow the Republican premise that unions are bad and show how they would make the country and people’s lives better – that sounds like a progressive platform that Joe Sixpack and the far left could both agree to make happen.
3
I voted for Elizabeth Warren for Senate, here in Massachusetts. For a long time, I also supported her for president, but no longer. The final straw for me was her embrace of open borders, free healthcare for illegal immigrants, and an end to private health insurance—all hot-button issues wildly unpopular with voters.
I don’t believe Warren can win the Electoral College with those positions. They are a bridge too far for many swing voters whom she would need to reach 270 votes in the EC. I admire her drive and grit, but she has a "I-know-better-than-thou" manner that drives non-college voters crazy.
I believe the 2020 election will be much closer than many Democrats believe. With a Biden-Warren ticket, the Democrats just might eke out a victory.
116
@Ron Cohen I am an elderly person, and there is no way I am going to support the status co which we would get with Biden.
Warren has sound financial plans to give us universal healthcare, and yes leaving the public option in place would probably be a good idea because eventually most people would prefer to be in a Medicare type plan. We also need the education beyond high school that she supports, not just college but apprenticeships or trade school.
Let's move forward and join the other industrialized countries that give everyone and equal opportunity, not just the children of the wealthy. It's time the wealthy corporations who are making billions on the backs of people who do not receive a livable wage pay their share.
55
@Ron Cohen
YES, this is the most likely path to a future Democratic victory, and it puts her on the route to the Presidency itself one day without too much trauma to tremulous voters now.
Warren’s exposure, and her bearing as a VP may be just what the country needs to experience in order to open up to a female POTUS.
8
@Ron Cohen All Warren has to do is soften her stance on health care and support a Public Option, which has 70% support and she'll be good. The other stuff you mention is all straw man nonsense, especially the "I know better than thou"...particularly as she runs against the guy who says "I alone can fix these things," "I know more than the generals," and pleads that he's super intelligent.
30
Asking 50 year old Trump supporters with NRA stickers in their vehicles about Elulizabeth Warren misses the point of the 2018 mid terms.
Older and high school educated voters counted a lot more in 2016 than 2018 more because of who didn't vote in 2016 but came out in all time record numbers in 2018, specifically younger generations. And they are far more forward thinking about the economy, job skills and wages, climate change, Social Security and diverse communities.
When I read articles like this, I wonder whether pundits and pollsters have recalibrated their voter surveys based on 2018.
It will be really interesting to see who turns out for the primaries, which have notoriously low participation. Warren seems to be generating a lot of enthusiasm at rallies.
5
Elizabeth Warren’s household income in 2018 was about $900,000, which included her husband’s $400,000 income as a Harvard professor.
This income level is almost twice the amount needed to be in the top 1% of earners in Massachusetts, so her claims to understand or speak for the needs of middle- or lower-income Americans (ordinary working people) are not credible.
3
@Mon Ray Certainly her claim to understand the needs of middle class and lower income families is valid. She didn't inherit her money. She worked for it. Her family was middle class until her father became ill and had to take a pay cut to keep h is job and that was on top of medical bills. The family lost their car due to missed payments, her mother went back to work and Elizabeth went to work at the age of 13. So yes, she does understand, and from a very personal standpoint.
@Mon Ray Read her history for goodness sake. She has been there and knows exactly what is like to be low income. Why do you think her policies are in place to help EVERYONE have an opportunity to succeed like she has done, whether it is healthcare, education, justice reform etc.
@RS
The problem is that she comes across too much as wonkish, rather than personable. Reagan made up all kinds of anecdotes (welfare Cadillac, service in WWII, etc.) and was able to convince a lot of folks that they should vote - against their objective interests - for him.
Warren needs to salt her talk with personal anecdotes that _illustrate concretely and memorably_ her policy views. Not have people feel they're in a schoolroom, but joining a movement to better their own, and others' lives.
Warren has been fine-tuning her message and appeal for months. It's part of her makeup to persist in learning and adjusting. I can picture her reading this article, processing its message and using it to improve her campaign.
199
@William I would suggest she talk directly with the Precinct Committee officers in these "soft" areas and ask if they plan to take some of her blue collar supporters with them when they canvas their precincts. These workers know how to speak about the issues she proposes. I have semi retired (83 soon) with physical issues but will support her via phone calls.
11
@William A president who would 'persist in learning and adjusting'? And you believe that white working class American voters would vote for a person like that? And an educated woman to boot?
Over the years I must admit that I found her irritating. Made judgements of her based on my perception of her appearance. (I'm not proud of that.) Then I did something, seemingly unusual for an American voter. I began listening to her and reading about her. She is speaking directly to the issues that I personally face....as an individual and as an American.
The best thing about her: at this point in the campaign, like the rest of the candidates. she makes bold statements about fixing America. However, she alone, at this point, backs up her statements with concrete policy information. i.e. she is not solely about sound bites.
I want her to be our President. I would vote for her with enthusiasm. Unfortunately too many voters will be 'scared off' by the fact that she is an educated woman.
9
@William I hope she will!
2
I grew up in the town bordering Rockland. I’ve been a South Shore resident for my entire life, and I am the daughter of a small restaurant owner. Our family knows a circle of thousands of residents in this area through our more than a decade of serving them breakfast. The author of this article found some supporters of Trump, but that does not make up the majority nor plurality of anyone in the area. For one thing, it is an incredibly segregated community, so to say that it’s white voters here that have a problem with her is the same as to say voter aged adults have a problem with her, which simply isn’t true. And this is all in the context of Massachusetts, where many vote with confidence that their vote will turn out blue anyways. There is almost no sense of urgency in voting for honest candidates, and at times none to even research the issues.
Our presidential election will be far different. If the people of Massachusetts aren’t all college educated, we are still current, civic minded, and we are surrounded by the far reaching impact of academia, medical research, and financial markets in Boston. Don’t let the senate races inform you on how we will turn out to support an honest candidate for the presidency. What should be examined is how well she can extend her message to communities that haven’t benefited from strong school systems, public health insurance markets, and progressive social policies like Massachusetts. She has my vote.
22
Does it matter at all that the folks in Rockland are simply wrong about their perceptions and fears? No. Perceptions is everything. But, I think you fail to recognize a change in Warren's personal and appeal. Her upbringing is being heard more and having an effect. Her policies actually are aimed at helping everyone, not just the elite, and not just groups - including whites. What I am saying is that I too felt she was too strident, came on too strong, did not reveal a caring and nurturing quality as she went up against the giant corporations. How could she care about me? The little guy, the forgotten worker class who Trump lied to when he said he has their back and would take a wrecking ball to Washington. I think the comparison, Trump and Warren, is becoming more stark. I would like to see a CURRENT poll in Rockland and see if there is any movement. I feel there would be, and I see her appeal expanding. So let me quietly and respectfully disagee. It is not a critical vulnerability. It might have been, but is eroding, in my opinion.
10
Last night I watched Elizabeth Warren's appearance on the Rachel Maddow show. I expected a substantive discussion on the policies we will need to overcome the many injustices that working people, the vast majority, must deal with every day. Instead, Senator Warren made vague statements about fighting corruption, bringing about "change", etc., with no specific policy proposals whatever.
Overall, I came away with an impression of a classical "Goo-Goo" ("Good Government") politician who believes that our problems can be fixed by good hearted technocrats who can form commissions to study issues and write papers proposing reforms.
In particular, Warren seemed to attribute the major strides that Labor made during the 20th century to the efforts of Frances Perkins. Undeniably, Perkins was a great woman who made significant contributions to the cause of working people. But where was the reference to the fierce struggle of millions of workers to build a powerful labor movement? The driving force that brought about the improvements in pay, working conditions and hours of work accomplished in the 1930s was the power of organized workers. The changes in labor law enacted then were the result, not the cause, of millions of workers joining together in unions to fight for justice.
Warren's top-down approach is a turnoff to me, and I expect, to many other working class voters.
3
I certainly agree with Mr. Starobin that Ms. Warren is not perfect and that there is certainly room for improvement in the way she conducts herself and her campaign, but, having followed her closely since she joined the race for the Democratic nomination and having read her book, "A Fighting Chance," she is well ahead of every other contender.
She is tireless in her efforts to succeed; she is able to succinctly state what needs to be done and how to do it; she has presented detailed ideas for how she will function as our next president; and women have already proven themselves to be at least the equal of men at being the head of government.
129
The problem with E.W.'s "free this, free that" is that somebody will be paying for it. It will be taxpayers. Further, the free Medicare for all does not say anything about who will pay for the supplementary insurance, since Medicare does not pay for everything. I guess, again, tax payers. E.W.'s Native American problem is difficult to overcome. Her claim that she is a Native American in her applications for her position in academia gave her an edge over other applicants. She was hired as a Native American and thus automatically became the role model for a Native American who made it to Harvard! Justice to Native Americans was not served. Further on the Native American stand of E.W.: What did she do for the Native Americans? Did she give donations to the tribes, did she visit reservations, did she build relationships with them? Maybe she did, but I have not heard about it.
9
@V. G. Harvard has stated MANY TIMES that she did not apply as a minority.
The problem is that so many people believe the lie put out by the Republican Party and its enablers.
Google her career. It's awe inspiring.
She got hired at Harvard because she was the best bankruptcy lawyer in the country.
The idea that her heritage is an issue is based on a reply she made to a survey AFTER she was hired.
And btw, I often refer to myself as 'Irish', as do many of my friends, although we were all born in this country. Do you think that we are all looking for 'free stuff'?
38
@V. G.
I really struggled to find any facts among the FOX News talking points, such as inserting "free" into medicare for call (everyone with a paycheck knows medicare is not free).
But her claim that she had Native American ancestry on her application (and she's evidence that she received no advantage) which was based on what she believed to be true from her grandmother pales to almost insignificance when compared to Donald Trump who claimed to be Swedish when he knew he wasn't so that his Jewish tenants would continue to rent from him (they same rouse used by his father) and who knew that he was being exempted from service for false pretenses so others could die for him.
8
@V. G. Please listen to what she is advocating - taxing the wealthy who have become wealthy off the back of the employees they hire at a less than liable wages. All said and done you will have better health insurance at a lower cost.
I have been on Medicare for over 20 years. It's been great - I should know. When my husband had to have bypass heart surgery our total cost was $2.50
"Does Elizabeth Warren Have a Critical Vulnerability?"
No - but Joe Biden does have a critical vulnerability - Elizabeth Warren.
As well meaning as she is, she will blow it for Joe if the two engage in a long rivalry and Ms. Warren is out there touting her "plans" - most of which have not yet been critically evaluated. That's before we get to her views on immigration - a major weapon in the Trump campaign arsenal.
5
Of course it’s sexism. Sen Warren’s speaking style is similar to HRC. Many men, in particular, can’t get past thinking that she sounds like their mother or the school librarian.
And how insecure must one be not to want the best educated, best prepared candidates? If we need medical care, presumably we would go to the best physicians, if we are in legal jeopardy, we would want the best attorneys, and we would also want the best qualified plumber or electrician in our homes. But for the presidency: who would you rather have a beer with?
319
@Lawyermom
I don't want to believe that you can speak of men generally with the tired old tropes of "your mother or school librarian". I know only two (unthinking) conservatives, but all others (I live in a retirement community) are already committed to Elizabeth Warren. Why? Having a beer with W didn't work out well. And Trump?? It's a complex modern world. We need someone with top brains + concern for the common good. Also no warmongers. Let's love our earth and protect it for future generations
24
@Lawyermom I'm not insecure, I just can't stand fingernails on the blackboard.
5
@Lawyermom
I agree that sexism has unfairly hurt Warren's campaign- but this article is speaking about non-college educated working-class voters. The implication from your comment is that working-class voters are more likely to be sexist than their elite counterparts. It would seem that your comment unfairly generalizes about people based on their class.
11
At this point I am leading towards Biden/Warren, or W/B. Biden because he represents a return to normalcy after 4 years of Trump. Warren because she advocates for change (esp income inequality) that would benefit the lower middle class whites that oppose her now. She argues for structural change, but sees an incremental approach.
I don’t know if Joe would do another term as VP
Early days
4
"She has struggled with white, working-class voters like those important to winning...."
Quite an enigma. She is a member of the white, working class. From her origins in Oklahoma, to Texas, to NJ and beyond. She has been a teacher throughout, first to children in Texas, then to future lawyers, and later, to business people.
She is great.
33
@PlayOn
I'm with her, of course. But she is not working class -- which is usually understood to mean those without college degrees.
@Rea Tarr, I must respectfully disagree with part of your comment.
I have a college degree. And, I work, 6 days a week. I know lots of other people who have earned a college degree, and they work too.
Please read EW's bio. She is legit 'working-class' by any definition of that phrase.
4
I'm less concerned with this vulnerability than that with minorities. E.W: must somehow transition potential indifference by demonstrating how economic change she advocates is particularly suited to their priority needs and interests.
Warren must also be practical about what resonates strongest in medical messaging, both for a primary and general election campaign. Presidents essentially merely sign whatever more favorable legislation comes to their desk, as controlled by Congressional action.
This woman has a varied background, prudent acumen and positive energy that can be forwarded to appeal in quite a variety of other contexts ever more steadily emerging.
3
Senator Warren has my unwavering respect. She is highly intelligent, experienced, and sincere with clear positions and solutions. And she is relentless! Nothing seems to derail her commitment. During the debates, she stayed on message, showing the most discipline of all the Democratic candidates.
However, I share the concerns of Mr. Starobin. Senator Waren may be too intelligent, too earnest, too disciplined for some American voters. And too liberal in her political views. Being a woman may be a problem, but my sense is that folks are overwhelmed by reality (like climate change) and opt for a simpler, if not misguided, understanding. And watching the congressional hearings yesterday, I wonder who is best equipped to rein in these characters and inspire Congress to find common ground. I sincerely hope this will happen but realize that it may take a major catastrophe to force voters to face reality.
6
In this game of electoral politics, any candidate needs to be viewed first on which battleground states they can offer a credible advantage towards winning. It will come down to the same old "map to 270", with a razor thin margin that runs through 4-5 key states mostly in blue collar country.
In that calculus Warren currently offers a far less clear advantage versus Biden, who if nothing else as former Vice President under Obama for 8 years, has more name recognition. Sometimes it's the simple things.
Personally I wish this race would be decided on the candidate most likely to lead us forward as a nation towards some lessening of polarization. If it were, my choice for best in field would be Buttigieg hands down.
1
@Dissolution Wasp
Your last sentence said it all, but don’t be surprised if he continues his northern move up the polls.
Warrens history of claiming her American Indian "heritage" has gotten her into many elite universities and beneficial situations. She knew how and she went to great lengths to work the system she so condemns in her favor, based on a very flimsy claim. Her hypocrisy in condemning the establishment elite, who she blatantly lied to join, is staggering. This is what will pull her down. It is hard to believe she is still in the running.
4
@susan m. There's been news since that idea was first trotted out: the university she attended and where she has taught all confirmed that she was accepted on the basis of who she is. Here is a quote from The Boston Globe, who looked into exactly the claim you are making.The Globe reportedly "found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools."
1
@susan Not true, Harvard said she was the best bankruptcy lawyer in the country and her intellect got her the teaching job. Trump had at least five bankruptcies and no US bank would loan him money but Deutche bank ( the bank who laundered Russian money ) . Senator Warren taught special ed in her first job while Trump and his father were using lies about their heritage as a rouse to continue to rent to the Jewish population.
1
Are we really going to discount Warren because she's a woman. As the article discusses, much of people's dislike is based on gender. If that is the case and we succumb to it, when will we ever elect a woman?
14
Her real vulnerability is that she just isn’t likable. You mention her success in government, but she has never had a piece of legislation passed. Guess her colleagues don’t like her either. You talk about her being a professor but we all know she made $300,000 for teaching one course. And you certainly neglected her time as a corporate attorney.
3
@Jackson Seriously ? She created the Federal Consumer Protection Agency which the politicians said couldn’t be done. She got her done and are we talking about the Wall Street bankers that caused the 2007/2008 financial meltdown and almost took down our country ... yeah, they don’t like her. She nailed their corruption before the public and didn’t back down !
@Jackson Making lots of money is only ok if you're a republican.
I was taken aback by the pettiness and short-sightedness of the young mother in Rockland who "viewed as unfair Ms. Warren’s proposal to forgive college student loans for most people carrying such debt; she said she had attended a technical institute after high school and duly paid off her loans. “Probably,” she told me, she would vote for Mr. Trump for delivering on his promise to create more jobs.
First, if my kids could pay off their loans sooner, they would be able to spend more money on household furnishings and automobiles, making 'real' contributions to the economy which drives the job market: people to make the goods folks want to buy. Folks with STEM college degrees are pushing innovations and scientitic advances that result in more and better products to buy--creating jobs!
Secondly, where is the Trump effect on jobs? We were already growing as we came out of the recession. Most job growth is in the service industry (where this mother works), known for low wages and poor benefits. In the past year, under Trump, the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows: Real average hourly earnings for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls increased 1.5 percent from August 2018 to August 2019. The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers rose 1.8 percent over this period. Most of us are losing ground!! WAKE UP AND GET SOME REAL DATA to inform your opinions.
16
This is why we need Sen. Sanders to stay in the race, and stand by and support Warren if she wins. He does get these voters in the rust belt, or he did in 2016. The two together will get more progressive votes, and Sanders will throw his support to Warren when it is time.
He will do this, but she may have to compromise on some positions.
I am more cynical about why she doesn't have the support of White male workers. They are uneducated, and do not like the educated or education. They do not understand things like Medicare for All or especially decrimininalizing illegal immigration. They are also misogynistic. Warren, though she explains things well and is "homy," is unabashedly professorial.
1
Yeh, well Trump sure has his ups and downs and vulnerabilities. But he is a man. I cannot believe, considering American women have more opportunity in this country than many other countries that we would not consider a woman (Warren) for president. I read some of the comments. Don't trust her. And we trust other candidates more, because they are men???
Please DNC do not pick Biden, the milk-toast candidate. Let's go with Bernie or K. Harris.
However, patriarchy rules here in the U.S. When women change their minds (and Trump doesn't???) or seem 'tough' or have out of the box ideas (nuking our hurricanes???) I think it is gender that gets in our patriarchal way.
1
Her critical weakness is that she is a woman. Too many American men are too insecure to vote for a woman in the top spot. Sad, but I think true.
3
"Does Elizabeth Warren Have a Critical Vulnerability?" Of course. She's really bad at math and finance. "Free" isn't free. The revenues have to come from somewhere. And it'll be your pocket. She's done..........
4
@Mike You know who is bad at math ... Trump and republicans. Who knew tax cuts for the wealthy would cause our deficit to increase by a trillion ... not republicans! Who knew that a trade war would cause manufacturing to be impacted in our country or farmers to go bankrupt ? Not Trump and the republicans ! The woman is intelligent and will do her research and then will lead us forward like FDR. Republicans are moving our country backwards and our kids and grandkids are facing a disastrous environmental future. Trump increased lead into the environment with his latest republican policies !
@Patty Suggest you back off on your Geoduck consumption.
If a youngish, male, white, middle-of-the-road voter had a positive transference to his women elementary school teachers he will like Elizabeth Warren. On the other hand, if said voter was one of the "bad kids" he will find Warren schoolmarmish and pedantic. I think she is hands-down the most qualified of the Democratic candidates to be President (but I thought the same thing about Hillary Clinton.) That's why I'm still a somewhat reluctant Biden supporter.
3
I live in Massachusetts and I plan on not voting for her. I don't trust her. I would vote for Sanders, Klobuchar, Biden, Harris or Booker before her. She has does nothing as senator except to try to promote herself. The American Indian issue is troubling. She used a lawyer like answer that her she didn't question he parents ""what kid would". She is a law professor, why wouldn't she do genealogy research? Then she says she has a plan for "Indian country" So se is smarter that American Indians themselves have firt hand knowledge of their own problems.
No thanks.
2
So what I get from this article is that some people in democratic Massachusetts who voted for Donald Trump in 2016 are inclined to vote for him again in 2020. Okay then...
During the Lewandowski hearing yesterday I watched a man who was seated behind and to the left of him. He had on a bright orange Hawaiian shirt. Several times when Lewandowski gave one of his hostile answers the man chuckled and smiled.
That attitude. Lewandowski's and orange shirt guy thinking it's funny to behave contemtuously toward congress is emblematic of far too many people. I don't think a perspective like that will be in any way persuaded by reason regardless of who presents it.
It seems to me Trump etc love it when people try to convince them. Like cat and mouse. It's a game.
Of course that doesn't describe all of GOP voters. I am weary of all the effort invested in trying to convince Trump voters. It's far better, and smarter, to register new voters, get out the vote, and most of all
Secure Voting Infrastructure!!!!!
2
Presidential elections are determined on an emotional not a political level.
Warren won't be elected, in my opinion, as she's got an annoying manner that's part of her being.
If radio still existed as the only medium she'd have a chance but with TV and other visuals she just turns many people off before they can listen to what she has to say.
3
We don't yet really know how Warren will play with white working class voters nation-wide. Aside from being personable and a good speaker and explainer, she has an appealing life-story that many white blue-collar voters might relate to (Oklahoma, lower middle income family background, non-Ivy league college and law school, her current Harvard job notwithstanding). Her lack of popularity with white blue collar voters in Massachusetts should be viewed in the context of tribalism and political divisions in that state. It is entirely possible that current polls only reflect the fact that Biden and Sanders are better known, and that Warren will ultimately do much better with white blue collar voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin than Massachusetts. Let's see what happens.
Excuse me. There are more than 20 candidates for the Democratic nomination for President. Just because somebody is in the top 3 or 4 or 5 at the moment doesn't mean anything. The "poll" that matters is in November of 2020. It seems like the lesson of 2016 wasn't learned. Who at The New York Times thought Trump would win the Presidency in 2016? From what I've read, Trump didn't even think Trump would win. The New York Times is ignoring many wonderful candidates -- and by ignoring them, is preventing the American electorate from getting to know them. Only the primary caucus participants in Iowa and the primary voters in New Hampshire are seriously paying attention to ALL of the candidates now. It is too early.
3
Yes, it is called doing what Hillary Clinton did, say anything to get elected. She moved through the left of center political spectrum, just to try to one up Sanders. Once that is done, she will move to the center, to one up Biden. Along he way, she will make any promise that she fees a crowd would be satisfied with. The question is, will she repeat Clinton's mistake by thinking she has broken the glass ceiling and the election is hers, before the first ballot is cast. The other question, will she even reach out to the white, working-class voters, that Clinton referred to as "deplorable".
That's the problem with populism; you get someone who probably will em mediocre, or over their heads, when they finally make it into office.
What I have seen, the the debates, is that Warren dances around the questions suing political platitudes. She feels to overly confident, almost to the point of entitlement.
If Warren continues to model herself, like Clinton, she will lose to Trump. I am not thrilled of four more years of Trump, but the DNC powers that be, and a strong mandarism, age discrimination movement insist that she be the nominee. And, in this process, will inflict damage on the other Democrat candidates, making them less electable. Like, in 2016, poisoning the well.
I hope Democrats are prepared fro another Trump term, because it will be of their own making.
Think about the next to Warren supporters dis Biden, Sanders, et. al.
6
@Nick Metrowsky
Sorry to wake you from your misogyny and lifelong slumber but Clinton was rock solid honest about economics, politics and culture. She specifically DIDN'T promise the moon. Donald Trump did. And those voters who love their ancient religious fantasies served up with more fantasy + double scoops of misogynist racist bile voted for Trump.
Yes. She has a huge vulnerability. And it's that the press has been soft on her. The press has accepted her reputation as a policy wonk and lazily reported that she has lots of plans on a variety of topics. But the press has not tested these plans. It hasn't challenged them. And this will be her weakness because, at some point another candidate will challenge her plans and poke legitimate holes in most of them.
Warren earned her wonky reputation. She has been an academic. She has worked through solutions to complex political/economic problems. But Candidate Warren has been entirely different. She is rolling out plan after plan of nonsense and (other than healthcare) has received pushback on none of them.
Some examples:
Wealth tax: A wealth tax would be impossible to implement because determining wealth is nearly impossible. You know how homeowners have property values assessed for local taxes? Imagine that process applied to every single asset you own. Forget it. Not happening.
Forgive student loan debt: Talk about buying votes. Pick a class of debt and class of debtor and forgive their debt. What about people with car loans? Home loans? Is this fair?
Free college: Many colleges are already failing to deliver a valuable education when people are paying for it. How much worse does it get when people are getting it for free?
I could go on. But, in short, if we want Warren to be successful, we have to start challenging her to put together sensible plans.
10
@SJG if needed, a bankruptcy declaration will get you out of the auto and home debt. It won't discharge the student loans.
@SJG
And that is why my vote is going to Amy Klobuchar.
1
@SDC
A reasonable point. I agree with the difference as you describe it. I guess my point is more that large portions of the public struggle to pay debts of various kinds and she is going to swoop in and wipe the debt clean for a certain segment (a segment that may be the most employable, a segment that some categorize as "elites"). This plan becomes a net vote loser as soon as an opponent points this out (be it Biden or Klobuchar or Trump).
Sadly, the Warren Paradox is too deeply psychological to fix.
A big chunk of voters could never bear being told what they can and can't do by mothers, librarians, teachers, and other women in glasses.
It is a voice of authority minus physical force, which the primitive mind rejects as unnatural.
10
Perhaps they are not so critical after all. For in the next election, we are not necessarily talking about the same pool of voters who went to the polls in 2016. I believe Warren would get out the urban and multiracial vote in those 3 key states in a way that Clinton never did. And how many of those non-college educated white votes will leave Trump's camp, anyway?
5
President Obama was President of the Harvard Law Review and a Professor of Law at the University of Chicago, so it's clear that intelligence and intellectual accomplishment is no barrier to being a good or great President. My question about her is the country ready for real structural change? Or, would the country like to see Trump removed and the mess he has created cleaned up. And despite all the plans she has, can they pass the Senate or are we in for four more years of conflict and inaction. To win, the Democrats must win Wisconsin (this election's tipping point state), Mich and Pa. If they can win Fl or Oho, t's over. I urge the Democratic candidates to focus their proposals on topics which will win voters in those states. The Democrats in general and particularly those in the Judiciary Commttee can do their part by putting Barry Berke up front, making him the face of the Demcratic inquiry and giving the candidates some concrete examples of the corruption of the Trump Administration.
5
Very simple for Ms. Warren to win them over. She must do the following.
1-Show that Trump demagogued the issues important to them especially blue collar job losses and health insurance.
2-Come up with progressive, moderate solutions to the above. A national, quality, affordable health plan like the rest of our peer countries have. With blue collar job losses selective tariffs against the worst of the slave labor countries not an insane total trade war against the rest of the world.
3-Don't identity obsess or social engineer like Hillary did. Continue to support things like the spirit of Roe but not abortion on demand, priority of gay wedding cake cases before the Supreme Court instead of a national health plan for all.
1
I work with these people,and have seen the change over the decades.Its not that she’s a woman or elitist.Its Where people receive information.Its the media!From the advent of right wing radio in the late eighties in which they focused their message to working class workers and got them angry about their struggles,to Fox News that capitalized on this demographic.The Internet and Facebook.The abysmal failure of the left to counter this massive discourse,disinformation campaign and most of all to deliver meaningful policies that had positive impact on their lives.They know Trump lies.They don’t care.They want him to hurt Liberals even if they suffer.Just look @ the farmers in the Midwest going bankrupt and they will still vote for him.This is the power of the public discourse and how a lack of journalistic ethics that went unchecked for decades creates false narratives.This is the dear price we are all paying for.
17
The problem with campaigns fought in sound bites:
Decriminalizing illegal border crossings has nothing to do with making the borders secure, it has to do with what we do with illegal crossers. Secure borders, rational policies, an understanding that there will always be illegal border attempts but we may be able to forestall many by our foreign and aid policies......these are opposed to Trump's "I want to appear tough," and an innate love of cruelty ......all decided by his "gut."
The person who WILL tax the middle class is Trump: for his border wall and all the other efforts to keep illegals out that will also be necessary, his bailouts to farmers, his millionaire tax cuts, his stumbling into possible wars.......the woman who had her children in the card should be worried about paying for their college educations rather than her past history because under Trump it will only keep getting more unaffordable.
7
All this column seems to say is that white people in Rockland, Mass. who voted for Trump are not going to vote for Elizabeth Warren, while those who didn't will vote for her. Would the Trump voters vote for Biden or Sanders? That's not addressed. Are there people of color in Rockland or towns like it, and would they vote for Warren? Also not addressed. Ultimately I'm not sure how helpful this opinion piece is.
13
@Marisa
Why cannot people of color just be American?
Nothing good happens in our electoral system till voters begin to choose on the basis of the most qualified candidate locally, statewide and nationally.
@Marisa As the piece points out, there are a lot of places like Rockland in Wisconsin and Michigan - must win states in 2020.
In Wisconsin, Biden, on average, is polling over 5 points higher than Warren in matchups against Trump in most recent polls. Warren is neck and neck with Trump there; Biden is doing significantly better.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/wisconsin/
A similar gap between Biden and Warren exists in Michigan polling. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/michigan/
1
@Joe Sweeney Yeah, but my point is, are the people who voted for Trump in Rockland or anywhere else - Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania - likely to vote for any Democrat? Are the people showing support for Biden in the polls you cite people who voted for Trump? I'm not sure what the point of interviewing people who voted for Trump about their opinions on Warren was, unless the columnist was going to also ask about other candidates. Otherwise, it's not clear whether this is a vulnerability of Warren's or whether no Democrat has a good chance of winning over Trump voters.
The key to a successful Warren campaign is to hit hard on going after corruption in government and stopping the rampant predatory business practices that the GOP has enabled, crushing the American dream for the vast majority under the age of 40. This is her strongest, most passionate message, and one that should unite everyone across the political spectrum. I'm well aware that there is scaremongering about "socialism" and "open borders" from fox news junkies and low-information voters and citizens, and I know it isn't credible, but it is going to be her biggest challenge to overcome.
1
Her roots are working class and she understands completely how the working middle class have been abused economically. At one time she was a republican and thought all people who became bankrupt was all their fault till she did her in depth research. Warren discovered how the middle class and poor lived on the razor’s edge due to no fault of their own. Senator Elizabeth Warren became a Democrat when she discovered the cruel policies of the Republican Party toward the poor and working middle class ! She’ll do fine with them once they understand her intelligence and compassion ... she’s their FDR.
9
@Patty "She’ll do fine with them once they understand her intelligence and compassion"
That is exactly the attitude that cost Clinton Wisconsin and Michigan in 2016 and cost us the election.
As much as I like Warren, many white, working class voters do not. She has not won over those voters in a decade of Massachusetts politics, why do you think she will them over in Wisconsin in the next 14 months?
1
@Patty you think they would vote for FDR today?
So this entire piece is based on a single poll (from Fox News no less) showing Warren getting 33% of the white, non-college vote, versus 38% for Biden and 37% for Sanders. The difference is so slight is probably within the margin of error. Everything else in the article consists of anecdotal interviews from a small town in Massachusetts. Seriously? And I'm not even getting to the baseless insistence that we have to contort our entire political system to appeal to the almighty white Trump voters. Give me a break.
40
@Andy Dwyer Many polls see her struggling against Trump in the Wisconsin and Michigan compared to Biden.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/wisconsin/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/michigan/
1
@Joe Sweeney Ah no, that's just a false statement. The most recent "head to head" Wisconsin poll has her 1 point ahead of Trump; Biden is 2 points ahead, so statistically they're both in a dead heat. The most recent Michigan "head to head" poll again shows her and Biden both statistically tied with Trump (1 point difference either way). That's not "struggling." She's doing the same as Biden, even though he has much greater name recognition. And, by the way, individual state polling is very sporadic; head to head polls are largely viewed as meaningless and are certainly terrible predictors of what will happen in the general election; and in any event the polls are changing very fast as Warren rises and Biden stumbles. This is just propaganda aimed at keeping a progressive from getting the nomination, but there's no hard data to support the claim that Biden is more electable.
2
Warren is smart, ethical and has a history of holding Big Banking to some hard truths and math that most Americans can't seem to grasp on their own.
However, her fantasy of $34 trillion in new spending "free" programs is absurd while we currently stare down the barrel of $22 trillion in debt. Insult to injury is her claim the already broke and diminishing middle class won't be taxed to pay for it.
3
@Maggie
Agreed. Warren's history shows her intelligence and ethics. But on that record, she languished in the polls. Her recent rise over the past few months followed an abandonment of those qualities in favor of senseless, slick, snake-oil plans that don't stand up to real scrutiny.
Elizabeth Warrens most critical vulnerability is her plan to ban fracking in the U.S. by executive order "on day one". This would be disastrous for the U.S. economy, dramatically increase our reliance on hostile foreign governments for energy (mostly Russia and Saudi Arabia), and dramatically increase our fossil fuel consumption. So it's bad domestic, foreign and environmental policy all wrapped up in one.
Donald Trump can run against her on this issue alone and win.
5
As someone who grew up white and blue collar, and with many such relatives today, I believe she cannot win in those communities. She is Hillary on steroids. Playing the Native American card to get ahead, when there is no affirmative action for white, blue collar kids, is a non starter. Add to that, paying off all those middle class college debts, an idea that will be a big issue in the general election. Why should my son, who spent 5 years in the navy and accessed the GI bill, pay off the student loans of those who went away to college for 4 beer filled years of partying? She may play well in Concord and Lexington, but will guarantee 4 more years of Trump in the fly over states.
18
The Dems overall message resonates strongly with the demographic you describe. Those good folk understand it and that's exactly why they're not buying it.
3
Her vulnerability includes looking at the economic details of her previous legislation. Example -- taxing wealth. Example -- essentially taking over/overseeing the board of directors of large companies. Each of these, as examples, are very problematic, however well intended.
4
This will be a turnout election, not one about winning back "swing voters". If Hillary had had the same turnout as Obama in 2012 she would have won both wisconsin and michigan...while turnout was up in PA in 2016, it was up more in rural areas. So, the tricl will be to get out the dem base; one advantage any cadidiate would have over 2016 is that one doesn't need to convince voters that trump has a chance to win.
1
So tired of these pieces on whether Elizabeth Warren is appealing to others, especially from people who already find her appealing. If she gets the most votes, she'll win. If you already voted for her, don't presume you have some special quality that others don't.
7
This is reality. Even if people can be shown they'll vote against their own interest, they'll do so for faulty reasons.
But this is information that the Democrats (I'm an Independent) should think seriously about as we go into one of the more important elections in recent decades. The voters who are arguably being hurt by Trump more than helped, are among his strong supporters.
And in states that carried the deciding factor in the Electoral win after Hillary won the popular vote, there has to be the calculation: are the voters who might turn the tide in such areas looking for a Progressive?
This election isn't about forwarding the progressive agenda, it's about undoing four years of damage, and stabilizing things. So expect (if the White House and House are Dem) that maybe, just maybe, incremental fixes will be possible.
Sweeping programs are nothing without majorities in House and Senate - plus the White House.
12
@b fagan well said. I like warren but she has the problems and barriers mentioned in the article. She can’t be of much help if she can’t win
4
@b fagan
"Even if people can be shown they'll vote against their own interest, they'll do so for faulty reasons."
Of course. This cuts both ways. People don't vote for a party which spews contempt for them.
Working class, traditionally-minded white Americans are no more inclined to vote for the Democrats because they are offering "free college," as a black man would vote for David Duke because he is offering lower tax rates.
1
First of all, we don't know who the Democratic nominee will be. Second, why is intelligence such a despised quality in a candidate for political office? And why the constant focus on her having been a professor at Harvard while not emphasizing that she DOES know what it is to be poor, to have to work hard to get an education or get ahead. Her life story does not begin and end with being a professor at Harvard.
I happen to admire Senator Warren. She, unlike many academics or researchers, did her research on bankruptcy in America and realized that her original hypothesis was wrong after she had the data in front of her. She then became a champion for 99% of us. No other politician in recent history has done that. As someone who used to work in scientific research I can also say that most of them don't like to change their minds when presented with contradictory data. I'd take Warren over Trump, Biden and few others any day. It takes courage and intelligence to change one's mind.
9/18/2019 1:30pm first submit
30
@hen3ry
Yes, changing one's mind can be good--but change is multifaceted--and Warren has not on the whole developed sensible ideas that would comport with "the data."
1
@Gerry Professor, I've read her books and some of her ideas are quite sensible. What are your suggestions?
I watched Elizabeth Warren's interview with Rachel Maddow. She has an answer for everything. Nothing will have to be considered, researched or have to wait. She has instant stored up control. Actually, she is a bit crazed and I don’t trust it. There it is.
I pray we get an educated, experienced, thoughtful manager. A good one. Kamala. Kamala Harris for President of the United States of America, our American Republic.
@lochr This is ridiculous. You just don't like her. Admit it. If she said she didn't know, had to research it, you'd say she was unprepared or has poorly thought out plans.
Yes, she has several critical vulnerabilities. As someone who grew up in one of those Massachusetts blue collar communities, I can see how a liberal from Cambridge would never really fit in in similar communities. I'm curious though how she does in the midwest. The response might be different, as that's her home turf.
Her vulnerabilities (I'm skipping over her being a woman and presentation because I really don't want to get into it):
- Commitment to college reimbursement. People aren't talking about it much in the primaries, but it will be an election-killer in the general. Aside from the class issues (you're taking money from the poor to give to the wealthy), there's a disconnect between people who think the burden of loans is too high and people even in my generation (gen x), who entered the workforce with student loans, accepted being paid pennies in our first jobs (didn't dream of a 70k salary), didn't even THINK about buying a home until we were in our 30s, and never imagined we could spend months traveling the world upon graduation. Personally, I understand some of the arguments, but there needs to be a lot more education as to why the situation for this generation is different from that of previous generations.
- A lot of people who care about business think she doesn't know what she's doing and her policies will be very bad for business and the economy.
- Commitment to Medicare for All - enough's been said on this one, so won't waste more characters on it.
12
I learned watching Colbert last night that Elizabeth Warren was a Republican until 1996. And from Wikipedia this morning, checking on that, I learned she was regarded by her law professor colleagues for many years as a "conservative." Anyone is entitled to change their minds, but this fact goes to the issue of trust and authenticity, two issues highlighted in her once-upon-a time claim to be Native American. Of course she is a superior candidate to Trump: any Democrat now running is superior to Trump. I believe that. But this piece highlights a troubling weakness.
8
@Ruan
Not a weakness, no need to be troubling. Reagan was a Democrat. Trump was a Democrat. If she handled this piece of her history properly, it seems like a chance to talk to Republicans, from whose Party she came and explain her motivation to switch, a positive opportunity to educate.
3
@Ruan,
The year 1996 was 23 years ago. Reasonable people can change their attitudes, and she did. And the change came from her experience researching personal bankruptcies and their causes. She became more empathetic. I like that!
9
@Ruan It's important to remember that the parties themselves have also changed quite a bit over the last 30 years or so. The Republican Party itself has shifted considerably more to the right; so too has the Democratic Party shifted towards the left. Her shift from one party to another is likely at least partially attributable to the GOP itself moving away from her views as her views evolving.
3
Yes. That’s why Bernie’s better. Lots of other reasons too.
8
@Elizabeth
Bernie's economic math doesn't even buy a cup of coffee without increasing the national debt.
2
@Elizabeth Older, crankier, and has a penis.
@Elizabeth
Not electable.
There seems to be a continuing double standard when it comes to female candidates like Warren, who have great credentials and who have a genuine middle class struggle in their backgrounds. If you make it to an elite university because you're innovative and grasp the relevance of something fundamental like bankruptcy law, suddenly no matter how effectively or why you made that subject you're somehow entirely tarred with the brush of elitism. Warren's wonkish realism about economics and job creation ought to qualify her without being undermined by having succeeded at Harvard.
30
@Dwight Yes, she's Adlai Stevenson, Al Gore, and John Kerry rolled into one. Very smart, highly credentialed, never residents of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Maybe the problem here is not EW but that we’re doing a poor job educating the “uneducated.”
“Educated” leftists often make the mistake (or so I’ve observed) that “uneducated” means unintelligent.
Uneducated, in the sense described here, simply means people who have pursued a lifestyle typically different from those who pursued college. As such they are less likely to have encountered in an intimate setting path-making disciplines such as Feminism, and are more likely to feel excluded from (for example) that discourse, to see it as other, or a threat. While some Feminism requires deep reading, bravery, and empowered analytical engagement, quite a lot of it is easily translatable to those who haven’t followed the college path. Liberals are susceptible to a narcissistic trap of assuming their ideas are too complex to share with their neighbors.
7
@Aaron
Stop blaming women - scapegoating "Femimism" for all the mistakes egomaniac misogynist men have made since the 1960s to crash and burn the U.S.
Of course she has a critical vulnerability. She is a woman. As much as I would love to have her become our next president, American men are not comfortable with women in power. At this critical time I'm not sure I want to take any chances. Gambling the next Presidency on men being able to see beyond Warren being female is a scary prospect.
77
I don’t agree with your sweeping generalization about “American men”. I’m a moderately progressive male who would feel very comfortable with a woman as President. I was also born, raised, and educated in Massachusetts, and I can tell you the author of this essay is absolutely correct. He talks about Rockland? My own hometown which is further south from Rockland went for Trump by ten percentage points! It’s THIS ten percent that Senator Warren needs to address not only in my own hometown but in other areas across the country.
13
@Teddi -- I agree, women are just not electable. After all, the last woman who ran for president only got 3 million more votes than her opponent.
75
@Teddi
Times are changing...who were the voters in the 2018 midterms? Largest increases were seen in the young (18-29), Asian, Hispanic, and metropolitan areas.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/04/behind-2018-united-states-midterm-election-turnout.html
There is hope!
13
Warren is for "Medicare for all." But, how about "Medicare for all who work for a living?" Pit the working people against the drug companies, the insurance companies, the ambulance companies, and the rest of the medical/industrial complex companies who have divided up the spoils in this incredible war against the (patients) people.
Is Warren too bright for her own good? Or not bright, at all?
1
"She'll tax me."
This makes me livid. Dislike Warren for her policies if you wish, but at least know what they are.
22
Because she won’t say it, doesn’t mean she won’t do it. There is no way all the programs can be funded by the evil rich people. Be in favor of the welfare state but at least be honest about it.
@Tim Kulhanek
You are wrong: Taxes will be raised, but not on that guy.
Healthcare costs will go down, not because you're taxes will, but because your premiums and out-of-pocket costs will, in larger amounts than the tax increase will be. It's about how much you get to keep in your pocket at the end of the day. As Warren has said.
I'm in favor of people paying their share, and of corporations paying their share, and not working to get the absolute maximum profits they can get on the backs of our fellow Americans. Welfare State? Not anyone's definition.
3
Go needs to be Sherrod Brown. End of all these concerns. And we win Ohio!
1
@Uofcenglish And lose a democratic senator from Ohio. Terrible idea.
This is the demographic where the fact of her being a woman is the biggest problem.
I think there's also a regional dimension to it. To someone from the Plains states, Rockies, or west, she sounds like they do with that Oklahoma thing still going on in her accent. To someone from the eastern US, she's just another Harvard prof from somewhere else.
3
It's no puzzle why she should poll 4 points less than Biden and Sanders with white working class voters. That gap is exactly what you'd expect every woman running for high office to confront. It's "Pocohantus" today but it will be far worse before all is said and done.
8
There may not be any way for her to win these people over but I bet she will never give up trying to reach them.
Republicans have done a masterful job of obfuscating their awful machinations and selling them to these unfortunate souls.
She is a beacon of truth and persistence and I bet she has a decent shot at becoming the President for all Americans.
21
It seems like the individuals mentioned in this article who don't like Warren are going to vote for Trump no matter who the Democratic nominee is.
35
Well, ok. But to some degree I have to wonder whether there are any of the D candidates that those people would support.
3
Warren has a very critical vulnerability among the working-class and it all goes back to her false heritage claims. If she were to become the Democratic candidate this issue will work against her in those key Midwestern states. She may think she has put this issue behind her but it certainly will be revived big time by Trump and his attack dogs. She has no defense for that. She will be compared to Rachel Dolezal, and unfortunately, the comparison will stick. This issue will resonate badly with the working class. She will be portrayed as someone who is privileged who falsely played the identity-card to get a professional advantage. The attack ads will play out daily. I think Dems are wasting their time with her. She will lose.
6
@twofold: OK, the Republicans will use her claim to Native American ancestry against her. First of all, there was good reason for her to have believed that she was Native American because of family lore. Second, Democrats could run ads 24/7 about all of Trump's falsehoods.
7
@WB: Sorry, but this sounds like the delusional thinking that gave us Trump. Warren's family lore is paper-thin. They commented on how her high cheekbones must have had some roots in Native American ancestry. Her longstanding claims were/are outrageous. She should be mocked out of politics for making those claims (especially since she benefiting from them). She waited way too long to clear up that mess. She will lose big time, and again, in the Midwest Trump will win. What a disaster waiting to happen.
1
There was good reason for her to believe based on completely unsubstantiated family lore that maybe she was some small part Native American. There was never ever any reason for her to believe that she WAS Native American and to so unambiguously describe herself in documents. That would be exactly like applying for college and describing yourself as African-American because your grandmother told you that she was pretty sure that you had a black ancestor five or six generations ago. A person who would do this is either an idiot or a liar. Take your choice.
1
if she has to change to please the white voters interviewed in this article, she will alienate other voters, like me, who also happen to live in michigan. in fact, it is the black working class she will need to win in michigan to reclaim the vote; the non-college white working class include a large segment who also happen to be racist, gun-loving, anti-abortion, not to say evangelical. they are core trump supporters. people for whom i will vote and campaign have to be diametrically opposed to this segment of our population. a candidate who is good for all people is basically good for nothing.
9
What Warren almost single handedly did to the banks by buying the in bureaucracy is why I will vote against her, even if it means voting for Trump. Every Capitalist out there should be terrified of what her brand of regulation will mean for our society.
Under Warren no need for `buyer beware` because business people are inherently EVIL and consumers should never be held responsible for their actions. Warren represents the end of the Free Market, she will and has run amok with unfettered government regulations..
5
@Ragman: Funny that she excluded small banks when it came to finance laws. She also is not anti-businesses. Just as Trump wants to return to an era of racial, ethnic and gender discrimination, Warren wants to return to a version of capitalism that was far less toxic for the middle class.
7
Although it is buried at the end of the article, the real necessity is energizing Black working class voters, specifically in Milwaukee, Detroit, and Philadelphia. What, exactly, have Black people done since we were brought here but work? The media's whitewashing of the working class is maddening.
8
"The problem is that she has a relatively weak standing in Massachusetts with non-college-educated working-class voters.."
Wow, you mean both of them?
6
It's disheartening to watch progressive online communities fall off this cliff. I could not think of a worse candidate than a former Harvard Law Professor, from the land of Dukakis, Kerry, and Romney, with no record as a senator, and a built-in scandal trying to pass herself off as a person of color, running on a platform of centralized planning.
But she's 6 years younger than Joe Biden, so I guess that's enough.
10
@Ian: You might want to lean more about her. Her background is not Ivy League. She worked her way up to a Harvard professorship because of hard work and intelligence. She went to the University of Houston undergrad and then Rutgers Law School. She changed her political views when she started teaching bankruptcy law and discovered that most people filing were not freeloaders. She didn't claim native American ancestry to advance her job prospects but because of family lore and she is the person most responsible for starting the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. In terms of laws she has sponsored since being in the Senate -- my question is how many laws have been passed at all since the Republicans either controlled the house or the Senate or both.
6
@Ian So vote for Trump.
Maybe they resent the fact that she worked her way up -- and succeeded.
10
In the year 2019 with the internet on 24/7, good luck trying to find a human being running for president who doesn't have a past, has never said something dumb or offensive, agrees with you on each and every issue and is a 100% lovable person. Nobody meets those conditions, so voters - and the media - should stop wasting their time trying to find one who does. Cross your fingers and vote for the person who meets most of your qualifications - it's the only thing you can do. Really.
6
This is a hitjob. Let's look at the data for Rockland, MA in 2018. Yes, Elizabeth Warren got 44% of the vote in that area and 60% statewide.
But, did she really perform poorly? Not at all. The main thrust of this article is deliberately misleading, if not a lie.
The Democratic candidate for governor got 23% of the vote in Rockland. He only got 33% statewide.
In other words, Warren ran twice as strong as the Democratic candidate for governor in the same area. That shows you that she had a strong pull on those white working class voters.
Nice try. Have a cookie.
49
@JAMES SCAMINACI III
I'm reminding myself to be skeptical about recent Times articles about Democrat candidates. Your comment supports my skepticism.
7
She's a feminist? Wouldn't know it. Democrats are abandoning their women folk. Progressives are all on board for oppressing women with the legalization of sex work and surrogacy. Warren even has her "she/her" pronouns, as if the very sex of her body isn't the determining factor of her womanhood. Get ready for the 2019 month of August. Males declaring themselves as transgender will start defeating women in unfair sport in the 2020 Olympics. And hey, Democrats, if you continue to focus your attention on non-citizens by the Rio Grand, and ignore the opiate crisis in the Ohio River Valley, and continue to allow Harvard to be the Third House of Congress, you'll lose in 2020. I've never voted for a Republican, except once when my union told me to in a primary, but the Democrats don't represent me otherwise.
2
I would love to see President Elizabeth Warren in the Oval Office, but I do think that Bill Maher accurately described the misogyny she's up against with this joke:
"I can’t say Joe (Biden) is a sure thing. Neither can I say that about Elizabeth Warren, who I like even more. But she’s a three-syllable woman in a one-syllable country. A lot of Americans see a woman with a bunch of plans, who seems to know everything, making demands for change, and they think 'I already have a wife.' "
11
This is hardly hard to understand.
Warren is looking out for the part of the population that is usually overlooked: poor/minorities/NON-entitled types. We know how that goes. The "entitled" are scared to death by this kind of talk. And, unfortunately, the "entitled" are - likely, LIKELY - White.
This is no different than trying to vote in the South in 1966. You got turned away, or asked to name every president of the US (for those to young - or ignorant to know, this went on for years after Lyndon Johnson signed The Civil Rights Act in 1964). People were scared then (and southerners were particularly furious with Johnson), because they thought they were losing something.
I imagine Warren is reviving those same, ignorant fears that existed 55 years ago.
Look how far we HAVEN'T come.
4
Some of the complaints the white underclass harbor seem legitimate. I have not yet seen a tough but fair and sensible immigration policy come out of the Democratic camp. Paying off college loans has to seem like a lopsided giveaway to those who have already paid off college tuition, or who have not gone. I, too, would like more details from Warren (and others). That being said, I have contributed to her campaign and think she is the best candidate the country has.
5
@Elwood: Glad you're pro-Warren. Odds are quite high that those people who have paid off their student loans took them out in a completely different era. Rather like people saying that they paid off their mortgage when their mortgage was only $20,000.
4
@Elwood
The resistance to the 'free college' thing mystifies me. When I finished grad school, my debt was half a year's gross income. Peanuts by contemporary standards but it still took some sacrifice to pay off.
We now live in a knowledge economy. Countries that invest in educating their young will be competitive. Countries that don't, wont.
Your argument that Warren has a critical vulnerability with white working class voters is based on a Fox News poll (which you don't provide any details about its methodology), polling data only from one district, Rockland (assuming it was indicative off all similar districts) and a few negative anecdotal comments. Based on this spurious evidence, you label this as the "Warren Paradox." This is one of the weakest editorial that I've read in the NYT. I don't think there is a "Warren Paradox." I think there is a NYT paradox. How did this editorial make it to print?
3
To the white working class so key in the coming election, perhaps Warren comes off too perfect and know-it-all. Perhaps her polish comes off condescending rather than charming. There is no fixing this. She should not try to dancing to Bruce Springsteen or something or spin a down home charm or drum up some white working class character-charm to attract votes. Warren needs to learn form Hillary's mistakes, no "deplorables" moment. She should Keep being herself, stick to the game plan, speak to the issues, the people will come around.
2
@PE: Well, luckily, the only group Warren might consider "deplorable" is the one percent.
Ms Warren is educated, articulate, analytical — qualities that place her at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to the voters you say she must reach. How would you propose she overcome the resentment ?
16
@Abdb
No resentment. As a fiscally sane Democrat, I simply strongly disagree with at least 50% of her positions.
Your comment epitomized the problem with the 'new' Democratic Party: anyone who disagrees is labelled as 'resentful', 'misogynistic', 'not woke', 'racist', etc. It is tiresome, and will lead Democrats to irrelevance. Pelosi get this.
2
Of all the candidates, Elizabeth Warren's supporters are the most white and the most educated. They also tend to be higher income. Her base represents the coastal elites who seemed to be the type that went for Hillary Clinton in 2016 and exemplify the stereotypical liberal bubble. It's a shrinking base that failed spectacularly last time. Her supporters are the kinds of white gentrifying technocrats that live in NYC, DC, Los Angeles, etc. Interestingly, this stereotype of white, ivory tower liberals was attributed to Bernie Sanders campaign, which in reality has the most racially diverse base, least educated and lower income. Warren's candidacy is a serious problem. I don't believe she is capable of expanding beyond the cliche liberal bubble that coast us the election last time. Her appeal is highly overstated.
16
@Fajita And it's interesting that she is the most pro-working class candidate of all...way more so than Biden, who was a shill for the credit card robber barons for decades. But alas, she is an assertive woman, qualities that frighten-off a lot of American men...and ironically, women...and I agree would thus likely lose to Trump.
How about talking about her ideas instead of her racial poll numbers?
@Cowboy Marine I would disagree that she has the most pro-working class candidate. I believe Sanders has that. In that, I always see him union strikes and picket lines for low-wage workers. I never see Warren or anyone else do that. His policy platform is more aggressive than hers as well for working class rights, esp. on healthcare, unions, forgiving medical debt, etc.
Bernie and Biden are like a pair of old shoes to the segment of working-class voters that are open to voting Democratic. They're comfortable, familiar, known. They don't really know that much about Warren yet. But much of the can't-do attitudes about her mirror exactly what was being said about Obama in 2007, only for him to crush McCain among these voters in the Midwest the next fall. Both Warren and Obama grew up in white working-class households of Great Plains people -- Oklahoma and Kansas. I think the more working people, who are unable to follow every turn of the news get to know her, they'll like her. She's a likable, decent person who means well by them, and comes from them.
42
Instead of some trumped-up “Warren Paradox,” I am far more worried about the very real Biden Bubble in which the punditocracy lives. This obsession with Trump-voting Joe Sixpacks, while ignoring the much larger number of young voters who will turn out if inspired but otherwise sleep in on election day, will mean another four years of Trump, if it is allowed to make Biden the nominee.
112
@Bruce Crabtree This is so true! My extended older members of the family all think "only Biden can win." But as someone who door knocks for Dems, I've had dozens and dozens of conversations recently with voters in MN about the Democratic primary. I ask them all their top 3 choices. Only one said Biden was their top choice and over 50 others didn't even mention him in their top 3!
26
@Bruce Crabtree I agree 100%. Progressive candidates (whether Bernie or Warren, though I'm more of a Warren fan) spur enthusiasm in the young and in some disaffected rural and urban voters who don't see a whole lot of difference between corporate Democrats and corporate Republicans. It's their vote that's the swing vote, not blue collar white males.
The young either turn out or they don't, depending on the nominee.
5
@Bruce Crabtree -- "the much larger number of young voters who will turn out if inspired but otherwise sleep in on election day." It's those apathetic, narrowly self-interested "voters" who I'd just as soon not determine the next president of the United States. Joe Sixpack votes. Older voters -- Biden voters -- vote. As we saw in 2016 (and in election turnouts generally), in spite of Hillary's throwing herself at them in her embrace of Obama, black voters do not vote. Instead of wasting efforts on groups who show so little interest in the future of the country that they cant show up at their polling place, the Democrats should care about the voters who care.
Much as I want to support Elizabeth Warren, I can't get out of my head the image of her hand-writing "American Indian" on her Texas Bar registration in 1986. That's just me, but I suspect there are many others like me out there.
23
@JM If this is your only complaint about her after Trump, we're in good shape.
11
@JM, yes. And which candidate has no stain upon him or her, in your view? Perhaps going back twenty-two years looking, a hand is not such a problem. But I'll check back for the purer person you plan to support.
5
@JM
Me too . . . and her excuse that it was a tribute to her vanishing relatives?
It is always amusing to watch progressives attempt to characterize voters who oppose them. The problem is never with the policies themselves. It is always some mis-communication, misunderstanding or some failure to comprehend the true wisdom of progressive policies. And the underlying message is that these poor, unsophisticated people are just harming themselves when they cling to individual liberty, personal accountability and free markets.
Senator Warren's campaign theme is that the system is rigged, but her principal complaint is that she is not the one empowered to rig it. And all voters, especially those in the working class, have every reason to fear that Warren's progressive policies will hurt rather than help those most struggling to make it. Does it really make sense to anyone that our government can tax everything that moves, open the borders, elevate the environment over all other interests, give away college and healthcare to everyone and still have a vibrant, growing economy? Sounds like funny math to me.
Elites have a wonderful way of insulting the intelligence or ordinary Americans. But ordinary Americans tend to understand the core principles upon which our nation is based and are reluctant to give them up in favor of the "pie-in-the-sky progressivism of the Harvard faculty lounge.
17
@AR Clayboy There's no funny math. $0.02 on the dollar above $50 million.
14
@AR Clayboy Maybe you should read how and from whom she plans to get those taxes...
3
@AR Clayboy
She's more or less offering an update of the New Deal.
The New Deal which led to the creation of a strong middle class and strong economic growth, until it was dismantled in favor of Trickle Down, which over the last three decades has eroded the middle class and led to anemic economic growth.
You put a dollar in the hands of people who will spend virtually all of it, and it circulates through the economy with a multiplier effect. You put a dollar in the hands of a very wealthy person, and it goes searching the world for a place where it can make a decent return, due to a surplus of capital and good old supply/demand.
You spend some money educating an person, and they can take a productive job in the knowledge economy and generate a lifetime of tax revenue from their job that pays well.
The funny math is with Trickle Down and the concept that further lowering taxes will generate more tax revenue.
18
I fear that Warren's emphasis on Medicare for all could well win the battle (Democratic nomination) but lose the war (general election) in disastrous fashion. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that Medicare for all is the best course for our nation, but I don't think the majority of voters in those critical swing states are close enough (yet) to understanding or agreeing with that; and the Republicans will of course hammer away with the socialism nonsense. This oldster is having visions of McGovern all too frequently these days.
17
@Expat -- So you're saying that people disagree with Medicare for all because they don't "understand" it.
Did you every consider that there may be other reasons for disagreeing?
there are fair criticisms in this article, but it lacks an appreciation of Warren's pure political instincts and incredible drive. Once Warren senses that she will have a problem persuading such voters and if she sees that Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin are necessary states with many ill-advised voters, is there any doubt that, unlike Hillary Clinton, she will go back to them again and again and again. Already Warren is demonstrating an incredible energy, zeal, and purposefulness that is lacking in Biden and Sanders and is faked by trump. If Warren sees there is a problem she will do her best to correct it.
84
@graham Hodges Also way more energy than Hillary had.
2
@graham Hodges "Already Warren is demonstrating an incredible energy, zeal, and purposefulness that is lacking in Biden and Sanders" not sure how you base this claim. Perhaps it's true of Biden, but Sanders has the most mobilized grassroots operation. NYT published data on the candidates donor base, Sanders' has the most vast, diverse, low-income support bases. He has probably the most volunteers and he shows up in states and areas of the country no one goes to. His crowds are among the largest in this campaign. Warren has a problem with minority & lower income voters. She has the whitest, most educated base among the three frontrunners.
@Fajita I agree with concern about Warren and non-white voters. Making either Harris or Booker, more likely him, as VP, would be a very compelling ticket. Warren certainly does not have the nomination and no one knows where it will wind up, but there's no denying her momentum, whereas Sanders seems stuck in gear. Should Sanders leave the race, where would his followers go. Hopefully not staying home, but finding solace in Warren. We all know who the common enemy is.
1
I live at the other end of the State, and can attest to the truth of this article among my Republican friends and working class neighbors.
All they hear is that somebody is going to get for free what they had to work for - e.g., free tuition.
We saw the same phenomenon over raising the minimum wage.
I love nearly everything that Senator Warren says, but she has to keep hammering at giving everyone a fair shake and downplay 'free stuff'.
It's sad, but we live in a country where the working class is now at war with the poor, and all for the scraps from the 1 per cent's table.
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@C.L.S. People are also incredibly short-sighted, e.g. the woman with 2 children who doesn't think about how her kids will be affected by the rising cost of tuition.
It's the same with older folks who oppose a national healthcare system because they think they're safe with Medicare.....until they or their parents end up sick and need nursing home care or home aides and find that Medicare covers none of that while national healthcare systems in other countries do.
5
@msMaybe college tuition would be more affordable if Warren and her husband didn't pull in obscene salaries as college professors.
1
@C.L.S.
Nothing new about that. For my entire childhood in a declining rural area adults were busy judging people on food stamps.
Fact is, it's rare to find a human who can think long term and about people beyond their immediate selves and kin. Our brains are kind of bad at it inherently. And our culture today does nothing to encourage long term thinking, delayed gratification, or caring for others.
It may not be reality but even the perception of "Higher Taxes, Open borders and Take away guns" will never win the white working class vote. Anything but that will not win the rest of Progressives. The Democrats are in a bind and had better figure something out Quick.
11
@Bob the only way to counter lies about middle class taxes and "open borders" and confiscating fire arms is to be explicit about what you will and won't do. Yes, taxes will go up. But there's such a thing as graduated income tax. That means the rich pay more and not just or even the middle class. Facts about good policy and clarity are what will win. Not pretending something else.
Maybe a more valuable strategy of inquiry of voters would include Sanders in the mix.
1
@k breen Oh God No, him and Biden are train wrecks bound to happen.
Non-college-educated working-class voters, and especially white workers stand to benefit more than most from the plans put forward by Elizabeth Warren.
I'm sure that she knows that she's going to have to work extra hard to get that group of people to vote for her. I think she can get through to a significant number of them. Enough to win the presidency.
Trump cannot repeat his razor-thin margin of victory of less than 78,000 votes in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania after everything America has learned about him. The more you get to know Trump, the less likely you are to vote for him.
His base is shrinking. He's in trouble in other states he won last time like Florida, Texas, and Arizona to name a few.
There will be SOME that will continue to vote against their own best interests, but that group is getting smaller and smaller.
Elizabeth Warren will defeat Donald Trump in the 2020 general election.
20
There are no candidates without "critical vulnerabilities." It's just a question of which mixture of strengths and vulnerabilities you prefer.
17
I like Elizabeth Warren a great deal, and support her candidacy. I may even vote for her in our state's primary. But her reflexive support of certain ideas makes me question her political savvy. She is SO principled, chiding any Democratic candidate who even dares to discuss how policies can get implemented as unduly pessimistic and lacking vision. Rather, she wholly endorses the Green New Deal, which is as much a national jobs plan as it is an environmental strategy. In just the past few days she called for Justice Kavanaugh's impeachment based on a New York Times article and forthcoming book. She has also advocated for the government to build three million new homes to counter our housing crisis. Principles or not, these things will not play well to many voting Americans, nor will any of them be implemented.
I love that she's fighting for every one of us rather than for corporations. And I love many of her detailed policy proposals, and believe that at least some of them are quite feasible even if they exacerbate deep political divisions. But I'm not sold on a principled vision that can't allow for differing views or the realities of political life. She hasn't had to make compromises in her position as a Senator or as a candidate. She will if she becomes President.
15
This piece, like so many others, is focused on the strategy of "Win Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin again." That's certainly one possible path. But living in a (former?) swing state, it's clear that there are many, many other possible paths to 270 electoral votes.
One of those three, plus Florida.
Florida plus North Carolina.
What about Ohio and Iowa and Arizona?
Or one of those three plus two of OH, IA, AZ?
Add Georgia to the mix?
So many possible options. An exciting, somewhat progressive but not far-left campaign could energize a different set of voters. It's short-sighted to focus on just one demographic.
20
Elizabeth Warren is smart enough to figure out that a unity ticket is the way to break the Mitch McConnell "party-over-country" model, which will control our political system until we replace it. Let's see it, Elizabeth! You need someone on ticket with Executive leadership experience. Those people are called governors. Kasich would be a great running mate.
3
@Elizabeth. Party over country? Every lib on here say they will vote for whoever is the nominee. Kasich is a Republican.
@Jackson - " Every lib on here say they will vote for whoever is the nominee."
Yes, precisely to put country first. To save the country from permanently becoming a fascist, theocratic kleptocracy.
The author identified the crucial factor in the Democratic party's difficulty in attracting the white working class: the widely repeated assertion that if the nominee can attract enough black voters, that candidate can make up the difference in shortfall among the white working class. In other words, the white working class doesn't matter. That is the message we've heard over and over again from party analysts, and the white working class gets it loud and clear, particularly in that a race-based choice is being made. Unless the party stops (quite overtly) prioritizing black voters over white, it will lose that white segment, which is said to be equal to the proportion of Democratic voters who are black. In 2020, and maybe forever.
6
And once again we are treated to lectures about how the candidate has to be someone you want to have a beer with. Warren's ideas are popular, not just among Democrats, but among all voters (that is, they enjoy majority support in polls of all voters). Watering down that message (whether by Warren or anyone else who gets the nomination) to go after Trump voters would be a mistake of epic proportions and would hand the election to Trump. If these non-college educated, working class white voters don't vote for her, younger voters who might not vote otherwise will vote for her. If Democrats fail to energize these young voters, they will lose.
49
@Randy
Independent centrist voters are never going to be motivated to vote for Warren in the numbers required to beat Trump's hard-core block.
Never. Period. Ain't gonna happen.
8
@Randy as I remember it, the last two candidates that ran on the "good guy to have a beer with" platform (Bush and Trump) beat their policy-oriented opponents. Voters aren't robots, they vote with their hearts.
4
@Randy - The prize is the Electoral College, not running up a 3-5 million person national popular vote margin which fails to capture 270 Electors.
10
Elizabeth Warren will never convince die-hard Trumpistas to vote for her, and shouldn't even try. Instead, get out the vote of people who can listen. For this, she needs help from people experienced in getting the vote out. Stacy Abrahms would be the perfect running mate to help her do this.
Nobody is perfect, and I don't agree with her on every issue. But she listens, thinks, and is capable of administrating. I'm all in at this point.
55
I appreciate this analysis - but I don't know what to believe anymore about one candidate's choices over another.
We elected Donald Trump - a deeply flawed and sometimes offensive individual who behaves in ways we would not want our children to emulate or observe. He's got an imperfect background in business and morality.
Yet those who claim to hold themselves in high standing in business and morality - still voted for him, and defend his behavior
So really? We're going to fault any of the Democratic candidates for any issue at all?
Does anyone actually know what's going on?
I am convinced we could put a garden variety turnip up against Trump and possibly win.
10
@Iceowl good... thanks for the chuckle.
To reach some of the voters highlighted in this piece, Sen. Warren's campaign need only to detail the lie upon lie upon lie told by 45*, emphasizing that he was a non-politician who had never before had to fulfill a campaign promise, and thus hoodwinked much of the electorate in 2016 with puppies and rainbows promises.
At the same time, there are many of these voters who cannot be reached - cannot be convinced under any circumstance to vote for Warren, since a person's political identity is so closely aligned with their religious self-concept, as demonstrated by the Jonas Kaplan/Sam Harris studies.
That said, Sen. Warren is formidable, whip smart, and is doing exactly the right kind of retail politics which I think could change minds in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan - to the extent minds can be changed.
Plus, Warren has a track record.
Though supporting Sen. Harris for many many reasons, it is possible that only Joe Biden can attract critical Electoral College Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania voters - this Dem wants to see polling of registered voters in those states, since there's no way Tom Steyer or George Soros can relocate 200,000 Dem voters to those states for November 2020.
2
The author hit the nail on the head. The election is going to be decided in PA, MI, WI, OH, FL, and maybe TX-- not MA, NY, or CA. Warren's policies do not go over well in moderate states. Voters in those states don't want a "revolution" that involves massive tax hikes and taking away private health insurance; they simply want a likable alternative to Trump.
28
You mean working class whites who felt left behind as Affirmative Action redressed historic wrongs by giving hiring and educational preferences to minorities might have a problem with a woman who cynically gamed that system to join a cultural elite that disparages them?
That's a tough one to figure out, alright.
18
@Philboyd
Those people don't "feel" left behind. Their poor finances and even poorer health status show that they WERE actually left behind.
The language of shampoo commercials and beauty creams is insulting and unproductive. The problem isn't how people "feel", as if tricking them to feel differently changes something.
The problem is that these feelings are justified every month by their pay stubs and medical bills.
13
@Philboyd Your comment is spot on. Warren was clearly seeking to jump the proverbial line using affirmative action as far back as when she registered as Native American ancestry in her Texas Bar application. I would guess that the majority of white people who attend Harvard are legacies who have a close relative who was an alum. All to say, privilege begets privilege, which left out many working class whites. So Warren would better to direct her apologies to these people, but doing so would require her to admit her actions, which she will not do.
Additionally, while recent immigration has been enormously beneficial (and necessary), overall, working class people has been dramatically negatively impacted by falling wages and fewer jobs. A great example would be the meat packing industry, which used to provide relatively high paying jobs for citizens. After breaking the back of unions, these companies proceeded to replace most citizen employees with undocumented applicants would work for far less. All to say, such is why working class citizens feel more emotion around this issue; it's something more (if not else) other than scapegoating and blaming.
4
@Viv
I think you are terribly incorrect. HOW people feel is ALL that matters in the end for a majority voters. Whether people are objectively better off, in any of a number of ways, is irrelevant.
4
Warren lacks authenticity; and it is palpable.
Trump is many things; good and bad. Be he is authentic.
Trump beats Warren in a landslide.
Thank you, Ms. Warren, for 2 or 3 more SCOTUS picks.
7/2!
12
@EWG
Dementia IS authentic.
@EWG
What if Warren was a man?
@EWG
Trump is authentic? If I say that out loud my dog, sleeping peacefully a foot away, will wake up and bite me. What does it even mean? 10,000 lies and counting. Okay, he's an authentic liar, cheat, philanderer, and swindler.
The dog is growling. I rest my case.
1
In every sense, Warren lived much of her life as a member of the working class. Certainly as long as Joe Biden who was first elected a US Senator at the age of 29 thereby firmly cementing himself as a member of the upper middle class. At the time Warren was still in law school with a daughter, hardly a position of material comfort. Joe Biden has a heart rending personal story, but financially Warren is much more a member of the working class.
17
She’s beholden to Wall Street and she’s a woman. Those are her two biggest political liabilities. If she changes the former, she could win over Sanders voters and the primary.
2
@Skip Bonbright
Please share your information about how you think Senator Warren is beholden to Wall Street.
In fact, she is no friend of Wall Street and has been a champion of the rest of us her entire career. She has fought bankruptcy laws that favor corporate America and she proposed and developed the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
Please read editorials from the Wall Street Journal to see just how much she is *not* a friend of Wall Street. The WSJ is apoplectic at the idea of a Warren presidency.
13
@Skip Bonbright: She is as beholden to Wall Street as Trump is to the truth...
1
@Skip Bonbright "She’s beholden to Wall Street and she’s a woman. Those are her two biggest political liabilities. "
I'm 100% sure you are talking about Hillary, not Warren.
1
I would like to share an observation that will attract lots of negative feedback, along with a recommendation to make things better.
Many people, especially men, will not vote for Elizabeth Warren because of her preachy, teachy, sometimes almost whiny, voice and high pitch. During the recent debate and on prior occasions it almost sounded as if she might cry. The thought of listening to that voice for four years will turn off a lot of potential voters for Warren, as it did with similarly-voiced Kirsten Gillibrand.
The problem will only become greater if Warren becomes the Democratic nominee and is subjected to 24/7 coverage by visual and audio media. What she says can be appealing; how she says it, not so much.
The solution? Lots of people, even including famous Hollywood actors and actresses, have hired voice coaches to improve their tone, diction and delivery.
There is no shame in doing this. After all, the candidates spend many hours in practice debates with staff and political coaches refining their presentations; why not add one more coach to focus on improving Warren’s voice and delivery?
Henry Higgins did it for Eliza Doolittle. Why not a bit of the same for Elizabeth Warren?
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@Mon Ray: She’s already done it. She’s much better now than a year ago. But coaching can only go so far.
7
@Mon Ray
You are right. I'm a huge Warren fan but my wife calls her "screechy" and can't stand her. It's doubly odd, because my wife was a big Hillary supporter "because she's a woman".
7
Really? That’s what matters to you? Personally, I’m interested in the character and leadership qualities of the candidate. If a person’s voice is what’s considered most important, not the substance of what they say, no wonder we’re in such a mess.
67
Despite the seeming radicalism of her proposals, Warren is still a technocratic liberal, a candidate who represents the professional class. These voters have been key to the coalition after the decline of organized labor, but her proposals to regulate capitalism into submission come off as unrealistic, particularly what happened to the Consumer Protection Bureau after Trump was elected. Sanders, though more radical, is more realistic: to achieve real change we need a movement that forces through legislative victories.
1
I love Elizabeth Warren story and accept that her passion toward bettering the welfare of low and middle income people is genuine. However, her lack of support among the very demographic she targets, not to mention anemic support from African American and Latinx voters, is troubling. I also don't see how how she pivots to the political center should she obtain the Democrat Party nomination.
If I could see progress in these areas, then this left of center lifetime Democrat could get more excited about her candidacy.
6
@Bill Ryan She doesn't need to "pivot to the political center." Her policy ideas are popular. That kind of conventional wisdom is what drove the Democrats to the brink of complete political irrelevance after the 2016 election.
8
@Randy
If Warren is lucky enough to get the DNC nomination and fails against Trump, the Democrats will prove their political irrelevance. So much for the upcoming Democratic dominance that's been bandied about since the early 2000s. Not all her suggestions are popular: decriminalizing illegals; condoning free healthcare for illegals; free college and loan forgiveness for deadbeats; and gun control.
I also have a hard time listening to Warren. It's not sexism as I like Klobuchar and Harris and voted for H. Clinton. It's that she's very much the professor telling you the way it is, and doesn't seem able to understand why people would have a different opinion. I'm liberal, but not progressive, and am concerned whether she's receptive to the centrist views of many Americans.
45
Warren's bulldog demeanor is, to me, a strength when fighting for things like the CFPB.
But it can also come across as dogmatic, as in, "I don't care what you think." For example, people who want to hold on to their private health insurance. When asked if taxes would go up to pay for the insurance in the debates, Warren practically sighed with frustration before basically ignoring the question.
Most voters--including over 60% of Democrats --don't want illegal border crossings decriminalized. Warren, like most of the other Democrats, appears not to care about that.
"I'm right because I say so" has not always worked out. See the war in Iraq. Nafta--"It will increase jobs here!"
Voters who've been getting the short end of the stick don't want to hear someone say, "This is good because I say so, and it doesn't matter what you think."
And that, unfortunately, is a quality Warren shares with many other politicians.
21
@Talbot
I wouldn't be so quick to blame job loss on nafta. Nafta seems to be a whipping boy for everyone who doesn't like hollowing out of the middle class.
But NO ONE actually can prove that Nafta HAS NOT actually increased employment here. And if car manufacturers moved fabrication to Mexico, did anyone complain about the lower price they paid for the car because it was manufactured there instead of the US?
And if nafta is used by republicans against dems, because Clinton signed it into law, I remind you that he signed a bill passed in both houses of congress, each of which was republican controlled - but only Clinton gets the blame, right?
2
@Talbot Nothing says "I don't care what you think" like standing in line for hours for selfies.
Disagree with the author. I'm originally from Quincy, just 10 miles or so north of Rockland. 60% of Quincy voted for Senator Warren, and it's every bit a blue collar town as Rockland. If one looks at the election results map for 2018, the towns around Rockland are red, north of them blue and south of them pink until you cross over the Cape Cod Canal, then they turn blue
I do think if one wants to get a better handle on the blue collar white vote, look at those election maps. All of western Massachusetts is blue, yet the middle of the State is pink and red.
Using one town as an example doesn't go far enough in my opinion to draw any conclusion.
194
@cherrylog754
Agreed, and there's the Electoral College to consider as it's still being foisted on us. Meaning, Massachusetts will go blue despite Mr. She'll tax me, as will New York State.
I'm far more interested in hearing from voters who voted for Obama (twice) in the midwest, then turned to Trump. At the end of the day they were a mere 77,000 of them across three states. I get that they thought they've give him a chance, but I honestly can't see how they choose Trump again.
10
@cherrylog754
Quincy and Rockland are both blue collar, but the difference between Rockland and Quincy is that Quincy is diverse. The working class whites of Quincy have lived with brown people and find common cause. The working class whites of Rockland fled busing, and have done their best to avoid brown people ever since.
6
Sometimes you have to say: these voters are just going to have to figure it out. Or not.
You can't convince a voter who is disposed, maybe without realizing it, to think that any leftwing woman candidate is "shrill."
That such candidates want to increase taxes on working-class people even when they present detailed plans that say the opposite.
That they want to confiscate every privately owned gun even though they say they don't, that they want "open borders" even though they say they don't.
Many of these voters have already built the wall: an ideological wall through which no facts, no new information, no contradiction of their preconceptions, can pass.
But some of these voters have retained the capacity to listen, to think, to be a little skeptical even of what Trump or Fox tells them. Maybe a few percentage points of them.
I'm maintaining the hope that there enough of these voters to turn the tide toward Warren.
This hope is better than fear: the fear of the white working class that will force us to embrace a walking blunder like Joe Biden.
86
@Jim: “Hope” is insufficient. I detest the sexism that made Trump POTUS, but it is real and powerful. The facts are clear: Biden polls much better than Warren.
1
Convincing the white working class to vote for her should be the mission of her campaign. She needs to listen to them, understand them, figure out what they want, and then tailor her policy proposals for them. If she doesn't, then Trump will win if she's the candidate.
25
@Elliot, I agree. And this is exactly what Hillary did not do. They assume that people will know they are on their side, but unless they really listen - and adjust, such as with the concerns about forgiving loans for people who have not scraped and saved and worked hard for their qualifications, such as technical college -- they will not win.
2
@Elliot You are 100% right.
1
That's no surprise. She has been portrayed as practically a Communist. And I fear that misogyny remains an element.
Give her a chance. She's getting stronger, polling higher, as she gets more visibility and as her message gets out.
Elizabeth Warren is squarely on the side of working class and middle class Americans.
Just listen to her without preconceptions.
288
@Sophia I don't like feeling like I'm being talked down to. If you ask me, what sunk Hillary and will sink Warren is her tone of voice and demeanor. You can call it misoyny, but I think she reminds a lot of men of their know-it-all aunts or grand mothers.
3
@Sophia Maybe those who do not like her realize that her plans would necessarily require increase in taxes for the middle class and maybe even the working class.
1
@Jake
Jake: please cite evidence (reliable, not Fox-derived) that President Warren's plans would result in tax increases (note that Trump's plans - oops, I'm sorry, his Koch/Federalist/McConnell-ordered plans - already have resulted in tax increases)
Andrew: Jan (my wife) and I always looked forward to Elizabeth Warren's folksy yet brilliant and not-talking-down-to conversations with Bill Moyers.
I've been following her path since then (over a quarter century ago) and find her even more on-the-same-level, brilliant, working-class-I-get-it (remember, she grew up Republican, and believed in Republican eco-not-nics until she observed for herself the enormous damage it does) - than when we first saw her so many years ago.
I always had the feeling of being hectored and talked down to (and usually couldn't stand to listen to her) by Hilary Clinton.
Warren is dramatically different, and I'm afraid, without any contravening evidence, I can only conclude that your perception is - wittingly or unwittingly - shaped by the fact that she is a woman.
33
"She has struggled with white, working-class voters like those important to winning Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin."
Just like what happened to Hillary, as per the book, "Shattered".
The only thing going in her favor, she doesn't have 30 years of bad history to deal with. The last 5 will be problematic enough, if she goes against Trump.
6
Honestly, I think the poll that the author cites here undermines his thesis. If Warren’s only 5 or 6 points behind Biden and Bernie among white working class voters at this point in the race, as somebody who has not yet run in a national election, she’s in great shape.
374
@Chris – But Warren is behind with white working class voters *in Massachusetts*, where she's been a senator for 7 years.
8
@Chris
I would like to share an observation that will attract lots of negative feedback, along with a recommendation I think will mitigate any criticism.
Many people, especially men, will not vote for Elizabeth Warren because of her preachy, teachy, sometimes almost whiny, voice with its high pitch. During the recent debate and on prior occasions it almost sounded as if she might cry. The thought of listening to that voice for four years will turn off a lot of potential voters for Warren, as it did with similarly-voiced Kirsten Gillibrand.
The problem will only become greater if Warren becomes the Democratic nominee and is subjected to 24/7 coverage by visual and audio media. What she says can be appealing; how she says it, not so much.
The solution? Lots of people, even including famous Hollywood actors and actresses, have hired voice coaches to improve their tone, diction and delivery.
There is no shame in doing this. After all, the candidates spend many hours in practice debates with staff and political coaches refining their presentations; why not add one more coach to focus on improving Warren’s voice and delivery?
It has been demonstrated countless times that it is possible for coaching to improve one’s voice and presentation. Henry Higgins did it for Eliza Doolittle. Why not a bit of the same for Elizabeth Warren?
10
@SE
have many friends in my native state of Pennsylvania , who would never vote for Warren.. They live in the battleground area- central,- where there are lots of of Trump signs. They’re all in for Bernie Sanders. I see no way Warren could possibly win. Bernie can.
3
Warren's problems with blue-collar white working class voters and minorities is a reason why she should be Biden's running mate. His strength in that area along with her charisma, ability to articulate policies, to attract young people, and to attack Trump make her the perfect running mate. In addition, a Biden-Warren ticket would unite the two factions--progressives and moderates--of the Democratic Party that is absolutely essential to get a blue wave or blue tsunami turnout to defeat Trump decisively and perhaps retake the Senate. It would also remove the controversial, divisive, and potentially damaging "Medicare for All" health reform from the conversation. At this point, with Biden and Warren leading in the polls this is the strongest ticket among the candidates seeking the nomination.
26
@Paul Wortman
I will not vote for Biden.
She does not need him.
He really needs her.
2016, welcome back.
1
@Paul Wortman
Makes sense. However, given Biden's age, the role of VP in this cycle is much more significant because the potential for to become president is much more likely than in previous cycles. That may cause enough voters in the midwest to waver. And we want to set the VP for 2024 because Biden, if elected, will probably not run again. I believe that one of the reasons McCain lost was due to Sara Pailin as related to his age.
@s.whether. "I will stomp my feet and hold my breath and turn blue before I vote for (fill in name of any Democratic candidate)" = "I will vote for Donald Trump"
Warren's judgment by a double standard for male and female candidates may be unfair, but it still matters for her political survival. She needs to add a little slyness to her approach to undermine her sexist opponents. Kamala Harris has it figured out. Watch her questioning of Sessions and Kavanaugh. The implied is much more effective than the explicit. Warrren needs to change the ratio to improve her appeal. Otherwise she will go down as yet another martyr for a lost cause.
6
@arojecki
With respect, Harris' slyness might work well in court or in the Senate, where I agree she's been formidable; but it's going over like a lead balloon on the campaign trail. She comes across as totally insincere. She's over-aggressive one day, as with Joe Biden; the next she's fake-folksy, as at the last debate.
Warren is just herself. That's plenty. She's got a vision, a clear idea; she explains it.
151
@Sophia
I agree about Harris. You've articulated something well, I have not been able to define beyond self-absorbed and phony.
Warren needs to provide a written plan explaining her Medicare- for-All proposal. And she needs to admit that middle class taxes will most likely increase; however, overall average Americans will save money because we will not have to pay premiums, deductibles, co-pays or other out of pocket expenses for comprehensive healthcare coverage. Be straight with the American people. We can handle the truth especially if we know that you are with us. Go Bernie! Go Elizabeth!
42
@Zareen If you can handle the truth, like you say, then you're mature enough to know the answer to your question without needing Warren to spell it out for you in a gift-wrapped soundbite for Trump ads. What does Warren "need to admit" that you haven't already laid out as plainly obvious in your own post?
Public sentiment is won and lost on narratives, not policy details, and narratives are baked into how questions are framed. Framing universal healthcare as a question of raising taxes instead of lowering costs is as counterproductive as framing it as a question of how many honest, hard-working claims adjusters will be put out of work instead of how it'll simplify the system and reduce overhead.
5
@Zareen
Actually, medicare recipient currently pay premiums and co-pays, and need to enroll in supplementary private insurance plans that cover additional procedures and especially prescription drugs. So, this notion that you won't have to pay anything with medicare for all is false and deceptive advertising.
2
@dba
Actually under Senator Sanders’ single-payer plan/bill, the Medicare for All Act of 2019 (S.1129), which is co-sponsored by Senator Warren, essential services, such a hospital visits, primary care, medical devices, lab services, maternity care, prescriptions, as well as vision and dental benefits and long-term care, will be covered without any out of pocket costs (i. e., no premiums, deductibles or co-pays). This means that a national Medicare-for-all healthcare program will be much more generous than the current Medicare health system. Check out the bill yourself if you don’t believe me.
4
I don't like her constant focus on the giveaways (i.e., free college education, student loan debt reduction) simply by raising taxes on the mega millionaires/billionaires. How about something more effective -- a complete overhaul of the IRS! End the shell companies and offshore accounting loopholes once and for all. Make the wealthy and corporations pay their share of taxes.
18
@Charlie I went to a Warren rally a few weeks ago, where she spoke extensively about closing loopholes for things like offshore accounts, and there was particular emphasis on taxing companies (the rally was in Seattle, and she repeatedly brought up taxing Amazon). While taxing millionaires and billionaires was certainly still mentioned, the loopholes were actually a key part of her plan. However, that's not as grabby for headlines, so I think these details are often lost unless people have spent extensive time getting to know the details of her platform.
151
@Mnb20 How about making no-profits with endowments of over $1 billion pay a one percent tax on every dollar over a billion? After all, it's only a penny.
But, no ... that would mean Harvard has to pay for its un-taxed $36 billion endowment.
5
@Charlie
Libertybound - better yet, how about limited charitable tax deductions over, say, $100 or $1000 per year? That way the wealthy don't get to stiff the government while funding their pet causes, such as politically tilted think tanks.
3
"as typical of an elite that is out of touch with the concerns of ordinary working people." But, of course, a self-proclaimed billionaire, who has never really had to work for anything in his life and who is busying himself with tearing down everything that has actually made this country great (with the happy aid of Mitch McConnell, the Supreme Court and everyone who has lowered themselves to serve in this "administration") is TOTALLY in touch with ordinary working people. That's why he intervenes in the GM strike--because he is so pro-union and really, sincerely cares about the workers. He didn't seem to care about all of the mom and pop contractors and companies he stiffed over the past few decades.
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@jane
Elizabeth Warren in not my last choice but she's close. And of course I mean democrats. I would NEVER vote for a republican the way the party stands today. And I am not a Biden supporter. The sooner he gets out of the race the better.
She's a fabulous Social Justice Warrior but she'll do nothing to unite the country. I can't see much evidence she understands the job of President which is mostly bringing together factions that hate each other and making the hard decisions even if you don't like them.
I live in the Middle via NYC, SF and LA. I could be wrong but I can't see her as electable outside the bases fantasy. Even this picture is off putting. She looks like she's about ready to snap the head off a chicken and eat it while it squawks.
I wish we could have had an excellent female candidate this cycle but it wasn't to be. Most of the men are even worse.
Seems like the more there are, the worse they are.
sigh.
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@mj
I agree. Optics and image are everything. I think Tulsi Gabbard is far more photogenic and would do much better. Too bad she didn't make the cut back to the stage.
Should looks matter? No. But they obviously do, as the more photogenic candidate for President in recent history almost always wins.
2
@mj
I completely disagree; there will certainly be citizens who will choose NOT to be united based on their party affiliations. That is in their nature. I can't imagine Elizabeth "doing nothing to unite the country." She will try but many will choose to believe the Republican rhetoric that we know will be forthcoming once she has the nomination. Yes, she's for social justice, but why is that a bad thing? I also see Elizabeth as being for economic justice. From my perspective, she is darn close to being the perfect female candidate. I certainly don't get your comment about the picture being "off putting." To my eye, she appears to be listening intently to the man speaking. I am actually surprised NYT approved your comment to be posted.
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Bernie Sanders
The only candidate to have a broad multi-racial and multi-class coalition. Warren voters tend to be higher educated white women. This demographic will not carry an election. She does seem to be the DNC's fall back candidate though should Biden not make it, so we could very much be looking at Trump for four more years.
The fact that Sanders has the greatest amount of small doners among democrats and a huge working class multi-racial base goes unreported. When was the last time you heard Warren speak of the working class. Half of the United States live in poverty or in a category called "near poverty", yet all she speaks of is "the middle class". With that language and her obsession with technocratic "plans", there's no way she's going to win the votes necessary to beat trump.
16
@Sean
Kinda ignoring the fact that Biden has a much broader, wider and deeper coalition based on race, wealth and gender than either Sanders or Warren.
Trust the polls - they are the closest thing we have to truth at this point - among all black voters, Biden is leading Sanders, 41 percent to 20 percent.
14
@SteveRR
Biden is running soley on name recognition and the nepotistic power of the DNC. His policies do not reflect the needs of the people, but rather reflect the corporatization of the parties a la the Clinton dynasty. Sanders has an actual massive grassroots movement who will continue to be active AFTER the election is over continue to apply pressure to those in power. Biden has no massive support. The only thing behind him is corporate backing and more status quo.
And if one says we can't afford Bernies's policies, try living in many parts of Europe where they virtually have all of the above . . .and they're nowhere near as rich as us.
5
@Sean
I don't dispute anything that you say - if only nominations and elections were won on the basis of raw brute logic - they aren't - Biden will be the nominee.
You are supported by hope - I get my support from empirical evidence.
Unfortunately, I think plenty of women will agree with the guy at the barbershop. Unlike Klobuchar, she is hard to watch. Case in point, Colbert's interview with her last night. A non-stop lecture, barely a smile. Colbert seemed ill at ease and relieved when it was over.
62
I agree. And - I am a woman, and I can hardly stand to listen to her. Not because she is a woman, obviously, but because she is disconnected when she talks. I don't want to hear her say "We will fight!" one more time. I didn't see the Colbert interview but that is a perfect example of how difficult she is to listen to. I do like Klobuchar, and she really does listen to people - her constituents and her fellow legislators.
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@Michie
I agree as well and I'm a woman too. I can only imagine what men in the middle will be thinking as they pull that lever and for them and what they lose it'll be for Trump.
10
@Cindy Brandeau
Agreed. She is smart, she has many good policy ideas (a few, like breaking up tech companies, are silly). I think she could be a great president. But she and Bernie both tend to lecture and talk at people instead of talking with them. Sometimes she just needs to relax and smile.
7
First, the obsession with working class white voters is misplaced. They are important, but not the only constituency that matters to this election. Black voters in states like Georgia or in swing states cities matter far more.
Second, Rockland voters, and their grievances, are not the same as those of working class white voters in the upper Midwest. Rockland hasn't lost factories. Rockland has no farming. Perhaps its only similarity to midwestern towns is that it has been hit by the opiod epidemic. Remember, 30% of the MA electorate voted for Trump. Those voters live in places like Rockland, so I'm not sure they should be the focus of concern for the Democratic primary.
These kinds of folks will get informed later in the process than the folks in Lexington (who in turn follow the lead of urban liberals in Somerville and Cambridge). They will start paying attention in January and February.
By then, we'll know what happens with Warren, Sanders and Biden.
115
@Cousy 'Black voters in states like Georgia or in swing states cities matter far more.'
Will Warren be any more appealing than Hillary was?
2
@Cousy
absolutely unless you want to win Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania...
Unless you've figured out how we can win Texas, I'm afraid you are going to have to take working class white voters into account if we want to win.
5
@Cousy
I attended a wedding in Rockland ten years ago. Traveled from Boston to Rockland, but it was really time travel to another dimension.
I was glad to return home to the 21st century. Unfortunately, Mr. Trump now rules there.
2