We need more levelheadedness such as this in our world leaders. Unfortunately, it's not as attention grabbing as the sound bites and brashness we get instead. Much respect to him for behaving as a presidential candidate should - looking for understanding and communication in the face of insults and adversity.
If you are going to be offensive in comedy, then it must be done skillfully and with purpose. I'm Asian and I can laugh at accents and stereotypes that I and others I know embody, but there is a difference between being offensive for the sake of it and having a point to make. I've watched the videos and Shane Gillis and the people he was with were not funny and were simply insulting and ignorant. If you're going to make jokes about other people's cultures you'd better be knowledgeable about it. You don't have to be Asian yourself. And guess what - if it resonates, people will laugh. Just lazy writing all around.
3
SNL could also simply fire him because judging by the many misses Gillis likes discuss and the not funny comedic ramblings on a podcast, he doesn’t look like a good investment for the show. That’s enough reason. As I understand it you have to be an incredible writer before even make it on stage. So let’s be honest it wasn’t going to go well.He’s an empty pot of old outdated ideas that don’t provoke the mind as comedy should.
3
I don't know that. Nor do you -- you just made it up. Just the opposite would have been likely:
"It's not like [Gillis] was going to say racist jokes on SNL ... "
If Gillis had been rewarded (rather than punished) by SNL for telling racist jokes, why in the world would Gillis stop telling racist jokes?
1
SNL was successful as a format that truly tested boundaries, introduced us to incredible talents, was edgy, gave us music acts we had never seen before, It was a haven for counter culture and a place to escape the mundane, boring, politically correct world and values enforced on us by opinionoids, news and politicians.
The now inability to laugh at ourselves eliminates the forums we used to reign ourselves in. SNL and it’s format backing down is sure sight of its demise and it is reflected in its boring writing and interminable skits, and importantly, its lack of thought provoking dialogue. I don’t know Gillas, but what if he was our next Eddie Murphy or Belushi or Radnor? We will never know will we.
3
There is excessive political correctness these days. The other extreme, equally problematic, is boorish people feel no shame anymore behaving atrociously in public, because they can always point to an example at the top. Some people applaud his political incorrectness.
It might be PC to denounce the "cancellation culture." Shane Gillis has it coming, but there's also a matter of drawing a line about punishing bad behavior. Otherwise how would citizens learn what is proper behavior if they never see negative social sanction applied to people for crossing the line?
2
Andrew Yang seems thoughtful, human and cool to me. Whether or not he is elected president in 2020, he has my respect and admiration.
p.s. I wish he was the current president. The president has neither my respect nor admiration.
9
I didn't understand why Gillis referred to Yang is a Jew in his derogatory comment?
The following statement by Clay Cane during the Kevin Hart controvery is spot on and appies equally well here:
"Here is what comedians who get in trouble need to understand: You can't "punch down." Skinny people cannot crack jokes about overweight people. Rich people cannot mock poor people. White comedians cannot make black people the butt of their jokes. Straight men cannot joke about assaulting gay men. And if anyone dares go down this lane, the joke must be so hilarious that even the community who is being insulted will laugh out loud. There are very few comedians who have that gift."
Boundaries and accountability are incredibly important. Being handed a career defining opportunity such as being hired as a cast member of Saturday Night Live is the exact opposite of boundaries and accountability.
While I fully appreciate the value of empathy conversations, that is an entirely a separate issue.
And, on top of everything else, Gillis issued a non-apology, which only makes things worse.
Kevin Hart issued a similar non-apology.
The problem with Gillis' "apology" is that he doesn't understand why he hurt people, nor has he shown any concern. In order to give a sincere, heart-felt apology, one must first clearly understand why they did something warranting an apology, take personal responsibility, and, among other things, state that it won't happen again. The problem is that it will happen again because he's tone deaf and he doesn't care.
6
As an Asian-American, I agree with Andrew Yang’s strategy of dealing with a comedian whose jokes are tinted with racism. Instead of calling the other party racist, sitting down to exchange perspectives and finding more about what is common between the two is more likely to defeat racism.
9
I swear this is strategic sometimes, which is pretty cynical. I say that because until he "distinguished" himself in this way, I'd never heard of Shane Gillis.
The real question is, can't a talented comedian find other ways to be funny? Or is flirting with offensive language required?
3
Eleanor Roosevelt said something to the effect of: others can only hurt you if you allow it to happen. For those of us minorities who may very well be on the receiving end one time or another in our lives, it's also high time we grow resilient.
Yang got plenty of similar insults growing up as the rare Asian kid in the community, and look at what all those insults did to him: absolutely nothing.
6
That's kind of the point here: The comedian did NOT say he was sorry:
"The comedian said he was sorry..."
What the comedian actually said was that he WOULD say he was sorry to anyone who came forward to announce that he/she was offended by his remarks. In other words, the comedian categorized a racial group, didn't apologize at all for having done so, and then insisted that individuals come forward if they were offended.
As many commenters have made clear here, what was offensive about the comedian's remarks was that he categorized a racial group. He didn't say any particular individual within that racial group was bad. Instead, he said that ALL members of that racial group were bad BECAUSE they were members of that racial group.
That was inappropriate, even though the comedian didn't direct his remark toward any individual. ANY member of that group could -- and many did -- rightfully say that he/she was offended by that categorizing remark.
4
Huh. Says this member of an Asian-American family. Mr. Yang claims that Americans can see through the model minority myth. Harvard and pretty much all of the other selective private and public universities certainly can't. Fox and its personalities who routinely resort to these stereotypes can't. Doctors. Good at math. Lordy. Contrary to his claims Yang is playing to the model minority myth, precisely, I'm afraid, because he thinks it benefits him. My goodness. Maybe, he's thinking, the Sanders bros will buy it?--they're a little bit nutty and a little bit racist. Does Yang even believe those stereotypes himself? Could we call that drinking the Kool-Aid and liking it? That's how it looks to this member of an Asian-American family. The sociology and economics of educational attainment is complex. And Yang doesn't know the first thing about it. I myself want to vote for a president who is humble and knows what he or she doesn't know. Families of East Asian descent tend to approach things in a particular manner. For example, extended Asian-American families tend to pool their educational resources and focus the bulk of them on the minority proportion of the current generation's offspring that show particular merit, leaving the remainder of make their way in the world largely on their own.
2
Not sure that most readers understand this:
UBI would be paid to EVERY adult, whether a poor woman with 6 kids or Warren Buffet. Presumably, WB could affirmatively "opt out," and WB might well do that, but I doubt many wealthy people would opt out.
Irony of ironies: If the UBI is to be funded with a "value-added tax" (VAT) (of which a state sales tax is one version, though that tax applies only to the final step -- the "retail sale" step), then UBI is funded by people when they spend money -- by wealthy people when they spend money or by poor people when they spend money.
What will any economist tell you about spending by poor people and wealthy people?
Poor people tend to spend a much larger portion of their cash, which means poor people spend a much larger portion of their spendable cash on VAT.
Does Andrew Yang see that that's not fair?
It can't hurt, and I suspect both Yang and Gillis will soon have a lot of time on their hands:
"I applaud Yang's willingness to talk to Gillis frankly."
For better or worse, Yang will soon drop out of the race. Gillis will find it difficult in the long run (not the short run) to get comedy gigs. Both will end up with a great deal of free time on their hands. They might as well use that time to talk frankly.
Let's get real here: Gillis should not be allowed (enabled) to build his comedy career by making jokes that single out members of a racial group. I don't doubt that that can be done, but is it really something we should condone? Or should Gillis build his comedy career (if at all) by telling jokes that do NOT single out members of a racial group?
The latter, I think. If Gillis prefers not to change, perhaps he can at least spare us the "Comedians have to take risks; that's all I did" blather.
2
I applaud Yang's willingness to talk to Gillis frankly. This is the mature response. And while his straightforward language regarding how much more accepting we are of racial slurs toward Asians versus Blacks he is spot on. That racism against Blacks is so highlighted based on the history of this country with them as a group partially overlooks the horrendous history Asian immigrants have had. Both had it bad. Arguing the group that had it worse should win more favor in our fight against racism is wrong. Women have had it really bad across all ethnic groups. And the Native Americans were slaughtered. We really need to stamp out ALL hate period - a very tall order. I think the first step is talking, listening. Yang is doing just that. Taking the high road. And along the way his quirky, heartfelt, straightforward style may get him criticism. But it is better than avoiding any contact with racists.
75
Well I finally found the comment on Vice's website (I guess they are better than the times since they actually printed Gillis' words). Jews should be a lot more offended than Asians.
2
I like the way random blogger Jen Fang, in all her omniscience, decrees Yang’s forgiving attitude “very much at odds with the Asian American community”. Even presuming the existence of such a “community”, which given the vast wealth disparities amongst Asian Americans is a somewhat suspect premise, who anointed Ms. Fang its spokesperson?
12
I dont think Asians are thin-skinned, it's more about fair treatment. No comedian would dare call Cory Booker or Kamala Harris a racial slur, or call Mayor Pete a gay slur. So how is it that Asian slurs are 'just comedy?'
3
The comedian said he was sorry and Andrew Yang forgave him. Sounds like common human decency to me.
4
Sometimes jokes fail. But he could have given a better apology. One of my favorite comedians, Stephen Colbert, on his Comedy Central show once lapsed into a faux Oriental accent as a woman offering "if you sit on my lap I will take you all the way to Bangkok." It was so well finessed that I laughed, but I imagine many people found it offensive. He has never repeated this performance.
4
Yang's UBI proposal would eliminate over 126 poverty programs and allow people freedom and dignity..
I was in the grocery store last week and saw a mother trying to buy yogurt with fruit with food stamps and the cashier told her, "NO.. you can only purchase plain yogurt.." I told the cashier I'll pay for the difference and he said the system doesn't allow for that.. I ended up buying the yogurt for the mother and her child.
UBI is the way to go.. I am with Yang... Even though Milton Friedman was pushing this idea back in the 1980's when he served under Ronald Reagan. The time for UBI is now and it makes great sense!
7
Andrew Yang, bringing all Americans together again for the sake of America. He gets my vote for maturity, intellect and class.
13
What we need is the government a Department of Apology and Forgiveness created by the next President of the United States. Anyone who ever told a Priest, a Rabbi, and a Minister joke or similar crimes would need to report to their local DAF for immediate consideration. They must be ready to apologize or forfeit their livelihood. With social media and devices Alexa they will know who you are so don't try to hide.
This is too important of a job to be left to Hollywood and your employer. The government must do something about it before humor gets out of hand. Remember they are watching you.
4
Gillis deserves what he got, if not for the remarks alone, in additional to his decidedly non-apology tweets afterwards.
7
@ben --- he deserved to be cut loose, not just for the anti-Asian remarks but his general act based on crude racial (gender, etc) bias. I've been tired of the vulgarity and offensiveness that comedians seem to think is obligatory for quite some time. So, good to see him go. But Yang deserves the highest credit for his gracious response. That Yang was criticized by some for not being sufficiently offended -- or too offended because Asians don't have the history of slavery as blacks and are therefore not deserving of the same degree of deference -- is symptomatic of the extreme degree of identity-based hypersensitivity that makes honest social interaction and growth impossible. We need more Yang.
4
If Gillis was performing as a comedian when using the "slur", then I think no repercussions should follow. Political correctness in speech has been carried much too far. If Don Rickles were performing today, he would be vilified and denied the stage by all those authoritarian hypocrites who presume the power to prescribe what speech others are allowed to speak.
Even if Gillis were not performing when he used the "slur", it is still especially important that he not suffer repercussions therefore since his reference was to a public person, in this case a political candidate.
2
Yang's campaign is made of positivity and MATH. Yang 2020
6
That man, whose name I don't want to use so that he can disappear into oblivion, has shown no remorse. "I will apologize to anyone who was actually offended." Really? Those who wanted him fired immediately by SNL, yes we were "actually offended." You still haven't apologized and you probably never will. Instead, you'll play the victim. You might even join the Forgotten Boys or some other hate group that feels aggrieved because you feel your undeserved privilege is being taken away. So, no, he doesn't deserve my forgiveness.
5
Since you claim to be one of the "actually offended", you got your apology. The fact you don't choose to accept it or even seem to condone forgiveness says more about you as a human being than anything else. Must be bleak, being an individual without a hint of moral blemish in a world of such flawed humanity. But that's the cross the virtuous have to bear these days, I suppose. Or maybe it's always been that way.
3
So the criticism of Yang came from Twitter users? Who cares? The majority of people are not on Twitter and based on the comments here, the majority of people aware of Yang's classy response, are very impressed. Why does the media keep trying to sell us on the idea that Twitter outrage counts for something IRL?
10
And you wonder why SNL isn't funny anymore.
3
Never had heard of this Gillis fellow until now. Might have been interesting to put him in skits with other cast members and let them hash out some of these issues in an amusing but edifying manner. (SNL's smart writers are up to the task.) In any case, I think comedians should be given a wider latitude that the rest of us, modern day "licensed" fools.
Reminds me of something Obama would have done.
7
Yes.
“Mr. Yang took “a position that’s very much at odds with the Asian-American community,” said Jenn Fang, the creator of a long-running Asian-American advocacy blog, Reappropriate...”
So all Asian-Americans speak with one voice? And Jenn Fang is the official spokesperson for that community? Did I miss a memo somewhere?
16
Yang would be a terrific president. Thoughtful, intelligent, no ideological irons in the fire, no apparent neuroticism or psychoticism.
7
I can only take solace from all of this knowing Shane Gillis will be making $25,000 a year driving for Uber a year from now. Unless Fox News hires him to be another one of their house racists.
5
Here’s my rule: you don’t blame people for characteristics with which they were born. So, the color of a person’s skin is something they were born with: off limits. Treating women as second-class citizens: that’s a cultural characteristic, and it is a choice: not off-limits.
Stereotyping can be problematic, of course, but it does often make us laugh. No comedian has been fired for making jokes about Dad jeans, have they? That can be hurtful to older males who prioritize comfort over style, and it is clearly a stereotype. So why isn’t that joke off limits?
All of this is because human beings classify everything we encounter and make sense of it by moving from the specific to the general. This is a survival trait from our early development, because the ability to instantly recognize a threat may be the difference between death and survival in the wild. Our brains generally accomplish it instantly and without conscious thought.
A side effect is that generalizations can also can make us laugh, though admittedly, often at someone else’s expense. Where to draw the line, can be problematic, even using my rule about things you were born with. Virtually all comedy treads a fine line between laughter and derision, and all attempts to make that line clear and distinct will be futile. Instead we must make a judgement for ourselves about how it makes us feel, and if necessary, avoid that which bothers us and laugh at what doesn’t.
The world will never be perfect.
8
If you look into Andrew Yang’s policies, you see that the concept that he builds around them is “Humanity First”. Even when someone shows themselves to be offensive and racist, they are still human. Yang called Gillis out and expressed his disapproval and hurt, and at the same time offered forgiveness and dialogue. I am impressed with the way he handled the situation and convinced Yang is serious about his mission of “Humanity First”.
20
I do not agree that simply disliking a certain accent constitutes racism. There is an uncomfortable similarity between Stand Your Ground laws that permit murder by someone who claims to feel threatened, and call-out culture, which encourages retribution for speech that one claims to be offensive to a minority or oppressed group, irrespective of whether a threat or offense actually existed.
3
@Sequel
Be advised that you have combined what are really 2 separate issues. As well, you misstated the facts and controversy regarding law permitting people to kill when they arbitrarily and subjectively "feel" threatened.
Stand Your Ground laws are really nothing more than elimination of the duty to retreat if reasonably possible. To my knowledge, there are no laws which permit killing a person merely because one arbitrarily and subjectively "feels" threatened. The law requires that the feeling must be reasonable under the circumstances.
However, the requirement of reasonableness of feeling threatened is only actually applied to us mere citizens. Cops are effectively exempt from the reasonableness requirement. The prosecutors, the judges, and juries have almost always ignored the legal requirement of reasonableness and have granted cops a license to kill unarmed citizens when they merely claim to have felt threatened. That exemption for cops is not the law on the books, but it is the law in actual practice.
Mr. Yang is considerate and we need more of that in this country.
14
Forgive? Yes, absolutely. Endorse? No -- and being given a prominent job is a clear endorsement.
My first reaction to this was to assume it was another case of burn-em-at-the-stake political correctness. A comedian doing a bit? Please.
But after listening, I realized I'd been wrong. While humor is always subjective (as is the tolerance for vulgarity) his language wasn't in service of being (or trying to be) funny, it was just witlessly, casually, wantonly foul. Doesn't belong on SNL. Doesn't really belong in comedy.
6
@Parker
So you are the authority on what belongs in comedy? You could just not listen to his act, or even boycott it. But instead you've decided that "his language wasn't in service of being funny," and therefore shouldn't be allowed to exist as comedy, for anyone to hear.
2
@Samuel Russell
I listened to inform myself. The clips in question were from an interview, not his act or any kind of performance (unless a conversation counts). Sometimes it's best not to assume, as I discovered.
2
I’m fine with forgiving Gillis. But he automatically loses his job when his work cannot transcend the problems he’s caused.
SNL has no choice but to fire him … unless they want the audio of the show to be all boos when he’s onstage.
It would be better if they fired everyone who simply wasn’t funny, but then, they’d have gone off the air long ago.
5
This cancel culture eerily reminds me of the Red Army from decades past. It wasn't pretty then; it's even scarier now as now it proves that history CAN repeat itself. Yang's response is pitch perfect and needs no defending. Those who disagree should reflect on their own emotional intelligence and figure out which way is a better path forward. Hate plus hate does not equal love.
11
The best way to show forgiveness is to recruit Shane to work for Yang's campaign. Ironically.
This is a vicious race. Mr. Yang, benevolence must be rationed wisely.
3
Is it possible to have a more nuanced view on this?
It was refreshing to see Yang pushing back against ‘cancel culture’ or ‘outrage culture’, and in general, he is correct that it would be great to see people looking at statements in context.
It’s commendable that he immediately forgave him, although I can understand why some feel that this undermines their position.
This was emphatically NOT a case of ‘outrage culture’ or PC gone crazy. What Gillis said wasn’t in the context of a joke gone awry, it was just plain nasty and, worst of all, not funny. It’s absurd that anyone could think his position at SNL was tenable after that. Just because the cancel culture is out of control, doesn’t mean that it’s always wrong. Pushing back against outrage culture shouldn’t mean defending racists when they’re obviously racist.
7
Mr. Yang is on to something.
'Woke America' should keep in mind that hate can not conquer hate.
Only love can do that.
Revenge, on the other hand, is a short road to civil war.
10
@manta666
Revenge? Where did you get that from?
NBC, a PRIVATE CORPORATION chose to fire Gillis and not give him a platform. If your boss heard you making racist slurs or engaging in behavior like Gillis did you would lose your job. Is that what you call revenge?
1
I am sorry that Asian-Americans have to listen to anyone who says the disgusting things that Shane Gillis says. I'm always amazed by Americans, the vast majority of whom are likely mono-lingual, who demean those who are in the stages of learning English as a second language. Kudos to those who try to learn a second, or third, or more language.
15
Gillis showed his ignorance and immaturity.
Yang showed the exact opposite. Measured and thoughtful reaction is what I want to see from the leader of the free world.
12
Honestly what do people think is gained by firing Gillis? It's not like he was going to say racist jokes on SNL, so there's no danger of that. Is it because of the fear of "promoting" a "racist"? That's a very abstract concern, and what's more, you're completely eliminating the possibility of Gillis rehabilitating himself with non-racist jokes. Will this move the needle in "eliminating racism"? Of course not. It's only another notch for SJW types who think they've scored some historic civil rights victory, which is laughable.
5
@Brian Once a racist, always a racist. It is rare that someone can become non racist.
Look at the current POTUS who has made the most vilest comments about Hispanics. His most loyal and hardworking employees at his casinos, hotels, and golf courses have been Hispanic. He believes that there were good people among the neo Nazis in Charlottesville.
3
After suffering through three years of a president in the White House who denigrates people racially, I'm glad SNL dropped Gillis.
Using racial slurs and stereotypes for comedy are the cheapest sort of shot and just aren't funny.
9
So important is this that I'm not even going to bother to click to find out was the supposedly offensive comment was. Let's just hope thin skin doesn't become a new dermal category easily offended as there are too many already.
3
SNL brought us some doozies over the years, like “Jane, you ignorant slut!” by Dan Ackroyd and, looking back in history, there have been more than a few sketches like that one that have been boarder-line over the edge. Maybe they were necessary. They certainly were funny!
Part of comedy is to get people to think of absurdity so we’ll take affirmative action later. Now we’re killing off this basically unknown comedian because we can’t impeach the president. Do we feel better?
SNL has had more than a few comedic guests on their show who have previously cut into people’s identity and belief systems pretty bad during their filmed and paid appearances within the small establishments of the USA, but no one said anything. Now those appearances are on youtube and people still don’t say anything. Funny how that is. Some people get a pass.
Back in the day, comedian George Carlin talked about the seven words you can’t say on TV — is the list getting longer now? Fine, but if we do that, in the end we’ll wind up a Tele Tubbies show and no one will watch it then!
5
I wish we could apply this to all people who have uttered things that don’t need to be said. That would sure clean up a lot of music and comedy. No need to let SNL off the hook for many things they have said.
1
Let’s just elect this guy. The opposite of Donald Trump is a humanitarian who thinks carefully about their approach and backs up their policy proposals with data and humility. If this is the most scandalous headline we can squeeze out of Yang, sign me up for 4 years please.
26
Yang is ahead of the curve on UBI and on the response to identity politics and cancel-culture. He is the adult in the room.
20
what ever else you think about Yang's candidacy he clearly isn't catering to any group for votes...his Freedom Dividend is politically a "break even" proposition at best.
Yang has the perspective of a CEO who knows problem solving and managing human beings can't be absolutist if success is the goal.
19
Andrew Yang is right, and his intelligence and magnanimity is one of those features that make him so appealing.
When a group rails against a plea for mercy towards an offender by the very group member who was the victim of the offence, that group needs to take breath, step back and examine what it's done wrong.
And here's what. Historically persecuted groups are now judging their power by the severity of the punishment they can apply to whoever offends them. That's bad enough; as Thomas Paine said, "An avidity to punish is always dangerous...." It's much worse when the group, such as Asian-Americans, has become disproportionately successful; by the US Census, much more successful than European-descended Americans and far more successful than African-Americans, over-represented in the professions and in other positions of wealth and power.
When you are are rich and powerful relative to the majority, you lose the right to complain about minor slights, minor because they no longer have the ability to do the same practical harm to you as in the past. Minor because they have the same practical effect on you as a comparable slight to, say, a white male. Offensive, unpleasant, but no more. Rattling your saber makes you look foolish and brittle. Instead, its time to be graceful, grateful, wise and generous. Or the edifice of civil society goes down in flames, as the fortunate demand yet more and the unfortunate, who would change places with them in a heartbeat, join in battle.
5
The throngs of thought and word police, now a requisite to be involved in most of the mass media, have again driven a talent from employment based on jokes, this man's profession.... The notion that it's acceptable to purity test someone's language, thought and history is the end of comedy. The end of dialogue. There is no other way to describe it except as cultural fascism. Shane Gillis needs to atone for no man, woman, race, gender. Every person here saying they are offended, upset, sad, annoyed by his comments need to lighten up. I'll say what they do not want to hear... Identity based jokes have and should continue to have a place in comedy, no matter how hurtful anyone thinks they are. Censorship is the banality of evil we must reject. Many need to take a look at their own identity and mock it relentlessly. Their fragile psyche's are destroying art.
7
Even by some Asian-Americans themselves, it appears:
"I'm white but members of my immediate family are Asian American & I'm constantly surprised how racism directed at Asians gets a pass in our society."
It's well-understood that a comedian can score points by saying something negative about a group that his audience is not part of. But there are other ways for a comedian to score points, and comedians should stick with those other ways.
I oppose Andrew Yang's UBI proposal, but not because Andrew Yang is Asian-American. I'd oppose his UBI proposal regardless of his background, just because it's old and unworkable without very large increases in taxes paid by working people. The notion that UBI can be funded by increasing taxes only on the wealthy is absurd; just "do the math."
2
@Commenter, it's not an income tax or specifically targeted toward the wealthy. It's a VAT tax. Worth checking out the details:
https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-freedom-dividend-faq/
1
@Heidi
I just did check out the details -- thanks for the link.
As you noted, UBI would be funded NOT by income taxes -- on which rates rise at higher income levels -- but by a VAT, payable by consumers regardless of income. In other words, by a regressive tax -- even worse than I thought.
For example, if a wealthy person spends no more money, she pays no VAT and so she doesn't help to fund UBI; if a UBI recipient spends her UBI, she does pay VAT and thus funds UBI.
Yikes!
There's nothing worse than a welfare program that's funded by poor people when they spend their money. That's what this would be. Frankly, it would make much more sense for this to be funded by wealthy people.
2
I wish when my kids grow up, they will not know the word racism and they will not feel bad if somebody makes joke about Asians. I believe when people are fully confident about themselves, they do not need to care about what other people's jokes or whatever. I grew up in a country without racist issues. I feel terrible that people are talking about racism all the time in the US. I believe all humans are equal and I also believe all humans are different.
4
You, like me, grew up in a country that ignored racial issues until forced to confront them. And my problem with Mr. Gillis isn’t his language: it’s that he used the language as the punchline, not as s setup to a point. That’s lazy comedy, and he deserves what he got (especially after trotting our the old “I break boundaries for comedy” nonsense. Jokes involving the (mistaken) idea that Chinese people can’t pronounce the letter “L” isn’t groundbreaking in any way).
3
This is why although I like Andrew's tech background, I don't think he would make a good president as he lacks some type of backbone.
It would be the kumbaya presidency, with free benefits for all without remembering that someone has to pay for it, and it's not just the millionaires/corporations, all these programs will come for the taxes from anyone making over $100K in yearly income.
in regards to the comedian, there is thinking and forgiveness, and then there is being a doormat.
It appears this comedian has shown zero remorse for his comments, and lacks any real talent without putting people down.
I have no problem with comedy that is biting and harsh as long as it has some thought behind it and is open to pointing out issues with all groups.
1
Hi, please point me to the section of Yangs proposal that says he’ll fund it by raising taxes on anyone earning over $100k per year? Or are you saying that you object to current tax dollars going towards UBI? What about that do you find objectionable?
5
@Paul I don’t think that VAT is sustainable especially in states that already have high state and property taxes like New York.
Regardless, I will vote for Andrew Yang if he wins the Democratic nomination.
1
@marie You’re incorrect. Everyone will receive $1000/month. His plan is to raise the funds through a value-added tax/VAT.
From https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-would-andrew-yang-give-americans-1000-per-month-with-this-tax
“Yang plans to give every American adult $1,000 a month in universal basic income, as a way to offset job loss from automation.
In a sales tax, the tax is collected only when a customer buys a product, "whereas, under a value-added tax, the tax is actually collected in stages along the production process,"
To make a T-shirt, a clothing company would buy fabric from a supplier for $5, for example. The supplier charges the clothing company the 10 percent value-added tax, or 50 cents, for a total of $5.50. The supplier then sends that 50 cents to the federal government.
Once the T-shirt is made, a clothing company sells it to a department store for $10, plus $1 in VAT, for a total of $11. The clothing company then gets a rebate from the federal government for 50 cents because it already paid 50 cents to the fabric supplier.
A customer then comes into the department store and buys the shirt for $20. The department store charges the customer the 10 percent VAT, or $2, for a grand total of $22. The department store will then get a rebate of $1 from the federal government because it paid the other $1 to the clothing company in VAT.”
Wouldn't it be great if SNL replaced the fired Shand Gillis with another comedian - Sean Spicer?
Spicer could just play himself on SNL, by reprising the Melissa McCarthy skits, or by bouncing around attempting to do a salsa dance. Like most Trump associates, Sean is always laughable!
Maybe Mr. Spicer could impersonate Melissa McCarthy on SNL. Or, even better, he could just go away.
1
Andrew Yang is right! Democrats have got to let go of purity tests and let public figures sink or swim on the strength of their respective brands. Poor behavior will lead to fewer ticket sales for entertainers and lost elections for politicians.
9
I admire Yang's response. Reaching out--communicating--helping people understand their own ignorance is a constructive is way to deal with racism (which arises out of ignorance and fear of the other--familiarity can breed understanding and compassion, rather than contempt). It is much more useful than retreating behind ever more entrenched barriers of difference and defense.
As for Yang's "lean[ing] into stereotypes . . .'I am Asian, so I know a lot of doctors.'" Um, that was a joke--drolly taking on the stereotypes themselves. The debate audience seemed to miss that too . . .
3
Our pc culture is killing our sense of humor.
All that matters for a comedian is: are they funny?
Example: Dave Chapelle's latest on Netflix.
I've never heard this guy's comedy but there is no reason he should have been fired. I would have liked to see if he had any SNL chops. That would have been the real test.
Who was it who said: "Don't go around just looking for insults." (Hint: he used to be President.)
3
I heard about a minute of the podcast that got Shane Gillis in trouble. It was so disgusting. Any decent person would be offended. Gillis’ remark about apologizing to those who were “actually” offended is even nastier than the comments he made. He’s gross.
As a brown-skinned Latina who has been the victim of racial slurs especially since 2016, I really hope Mr. Yang can get through to Gillis. Sadly, in my experience, I have learned that once a racist usually remain racist. They just learn to hide it better.
6
An economic death penalty for racism ... While I think that racism has no place anywhere, punishing people so harshly might not be the right approach, as seen in the War on Drugs or the Mandatory Minimums. In this context, I really fear we are headed for economical fascism. Once someone is guilty of anything, he or she loses all humanity and possibility of redemption, kept there only to be the target of the victims' ire. Mr. Epstein sure did some horrible things, but the indifference and scorn his death was received with really sent chills up my spine. People remain people, no matter their offenses, especially in a Christian culture. However, this comes from somebody who lives in a country where the death penalty has fortunately been banned.
2
In cases like this, where blatantly racist and hurtful things are said, the term "outrage culture" never needs to be used since I'm pretty sure that term was coined by some racist or sexist guy who didn't like being called out for being racist or sexist.
5
So THIS is how it is when there’s an adult in the room!!! Been so long....
3
I suppose the NY times is also part of the new outrage culture. How about a quote of what Gillis actually said? I mean, that is the whole point of the article, and not a single reference to what he actually said. It's okay guys and girls, some of us are adults, and can take it.
4
@Matt It's too vile. Click on the link to the podcast. It’s in the article.
2
I’d post them here, but then my comment would never get past the moderators. Do a Google search: his comments are easy to find.
1
@ERT My point is I pay the NY Times to do this research for me. I shouldn't have to click around on Google to find out the basic facts on which the article was based. If they can't print it here like adults, they should just not write the story in the first place.
2
Whoopsie! Andrew Yang forgives Gillis, but SNL does not.
I think most Americans (I included) believe Asian-Americans get dumped on because the dumpers know that Asian-Americans don't complain much:
"Gillis ... was just enjoying making unabashedly racist comments because he thought he could get away with it, and because he thought others ... would be entertained ... So given his non-apology, I'd have to say that Gillis shouldn't be on SNL."
Asian-Americans should complain more often. Better yet, audiences shouldn't laugh when Gillis-types make racist jokes about Asian-Americans. Best of all, such racist remarks should stop. Some comedians get laughs with non-racist jokes; Gillis should try that.
5
"I think its interesting that the first asian american democratic candidate for president was called all these slurs and none of the democrats bothered to support him. Now Andrew Yang is the racist, for being willing to educate and reconcile? Quite a culture of division we have"
11
It's not "hate" to suggest that Gillis' racist remarks should be soundly disapproved:
"Simply hate in response to hate will only not move society forward."
2
Everyone at the comedy club was laughing until a joke was made about them, they were offended and accused the comedian of being a racist or sexist or blah, blah, blah etc. He goes after everyone equally. It's all funny until he talks about you. But PC culture means if you want to do SNL you better mind your P's and Q's or face the wrath of the Twitter and Instagram police.
1
Yep:
"For too long, people have been thinking it's ok to make fun of Asians because that's the thing to do."
3
Who the heck is Shane Gillis? Never heard of him before. Hopefully, I won't hear much of him hereafter.
5
probably a good move. I actually support Louis CK and Dave Chapelle in their respective cases, and am against political correctness poisoning all attempts at humor.
However, Shane Gillis's jokes just were not funny- they were low-grade and idiotic. There wasn't anything intellectual or thought-provoking in them. They were just stupid. He should not be fired because his jokes were insensitive, he should be fired because his jokes were not worthy of being that of a professional comedian.
3
I just clicked on the link of the actual thing Gillis said and nobody has mentioned that he threw Jews in there too.
3
Trump will be president again, because liberals have more important things to do like go after comedians who make stupid remarks for a living.
5
Hey NY Times: please stop presenting far left bloggers (“Reappropriate”) and standard college professors as representing anyone but themselves. These folks do not likely reflect the “Asian American community” any more than does Michele Malkin and her ilk. Or Andrew Yang for that matter... Stop it please. It’s cheap journalism.
8
...and we wonder why Wall-Street parasites never learn after we bail them out time and time and time again.
Sorry but, no, I am done forgiving idiot racists.
My main objection to Yang's UBI proposal stems from the recognition that not every problem has a solution.
Automation indeed will (has) put many Americans out of work. Being a SF resident, I know well that no start-up will argue that adopting its great new idea will increase labor costs. To the contrary, a typical start-up argues just the opposite: that adopting its great new idea will reduce labor costs.
Automation is indeed the scourge that Yang describes. And there's no question that injecting $12,000 per adult per year will stimulate the economy. And there's no question that the recipients of that $12,000 per adult per year are more likely to spend it than are the people from whom that money is taken.
But "the people from whom that money is taken" wouldn't be just the wealthy Americans who aren't paying their "fair share" of taxes. It would be all taxpayers, notably including workers. Yang's offer to pay for 10 Americans out of campaign donations only highlights the inadequacy of funding.
Automation is indeed a scourge, but I don't see a solution to it. UBI is not one.
@Commenter
The reason I don’t support Andrew Yang is because of his position on automation. It’s *not* a scourge, it’s just another word for productivity. From the invention of the cotton gin through to today, labor-saving technology has displaced workers, but created new industries. The computer replaced typewriters, the iPhone replaced telephone operators and streaming services replaced DVD makers, but those workers got other jobs. The robots are taking our jobs is not only a scare story, it’s a fallacy.
Thoughtful comments - check it his plan more thoroughly. Let us know what you think then.
2
I'm Chinese and I think he responded perfectly. State in no uncertain terms that it's a problem, but respond with a message of healing and teaching instead of giving into call out culture.
24
@Diana If you're Chinese, as you say, why did you post a photo of a blonde woman who's clearly NOT Chinese?
4
So Shane Gillis believes, it appears:
"As a comedian you have the right to blurt any stupid idea that pops in your head ... "
6
@Commenter
Yes. It's solely up to the audience to determine if they like the stupid idea or not. It's called "comedy."
2
@Commenter
So do many of this paper's opinion columnists, but they still get to keep their jobs.
@Commenter That is correct. Every good comedian in the last 50 years has done that. If the joke was funny no one would be talking about it. The joke missed the mark, however, and the keyboard warriors are on the attack.
If it had been even slightly funny I would give him a pass. If you think you have to go there as a comedian to be "good" you probably ought to be selling insurance. People make mistakes. This guy's biggest mistake is thinking he is funny.
10
Yang is a mensch, and a brilliant one. He is exemplary. Instead of pretending to speak for the entire "Asian-American community," as Ms. Fang does (I never trust people who claim that position), he sets an example of what it is to be a great leader, to be above the fray, to be, yes, forgiving, imaginative, steady, calm, forward-looking, I wish he had more political experience and a clearer foreign policy outlook. He's worth any three of the other Dem candidates in my book.
29
Mr Yang’s approach is surprising and considered. His ability to think outside the box and his problem solving approach is sorely needed in this country.
While doubtful he will snag the Presidential nomination, we would all gain should he decide to remain in politics after this election.
Providing we can preserve what is left of our country.
155
@Chickpea
Your opinion on his electability is objectively correct at the moment based on polling data. However, it pains me to read so many comments recently on articles about Yang simultaneously praising his policies, demeanor, and general thoughtfulness while also resigning themselves that he cannot be the nominee.
He is now in 4th place in California in the most recent Emerson poll. I would encourage more people to speak up about support for his candidacy and vote their desires at this junction and who knows what will happen. I initially thought UBI was a pipe dream but more and more I believe it would be the most effective solution to the inequality problem that will only grow as time goes on. I am very financially well off and for some reason paying higher taxes knowing that money is directly going back to people does not bother me at all compared to adding a continuing hodge podge of economic development and job training programs that I believe are only marginally effective to a small subset of those in need.
31
@MAW
I too appreciate the idea of UBI and think it is the best way to even out inequality. I used to live a very comfortable life, but am now living paycheck to paycheck, like many Americans. I am educated but have a chronic illness that has been difficult to manage. I lost my job in my field in 2006 and have not been able to work full-time consistently since then. I am working towards that and managing my illness.
For the last 3 years I've made less than the annual poverty level for a single person. With UBI, I would have SO much stress taken off me. That would really help me in managing my illness. I owe medical bills and student debt. Stress makes any illness more difficult to manage.
What I don't understand about UBI is why everyone would get $1,000 a month. Wouldn't that be too expensive? If it is, why not focus on getting everyone up to 120% of the annual poverty level? I don't see the point of going further than that, since the U.S. already spent six TRILLION dollars on the wars. Our debt is going to hit a trillion soon, if it hasn't already. The point of UBI should be to stimulate the economy, even out inequality. We'll never do that it everyone is getting UBI. Bring the broke folks up to where WE belong. WE make the economy WORK.
9
Mr. Yang is smart, funny and speaks the truth (math, doctors, etc.) What's not to like?
9
Forgiveness is great, and I acknowledge that I, too, had never heard of Shane Gillis before this controversy occurred.
All that said, the key take-away from Andrew Yang's offer to pay $1,000 a month to 10 families, out of campaign funds, highlights most the high cost of his UBI proposal. No question that $12,000 a year, per adult, would stimulate the economy, but obviously we can't foot that bill by diverting campaign donations. Whether it could be funded by higher taxes on the wealthy is another question. My strong hunch is that taxes on average people would increase too, and Yang's proposal only highlights that: He proposed only to fund payments to 10 people out of campaign fund, a very tiny drop in the very large bucket.
2
As an Asian American male growing up in NY, i have also experienced similar racism. Yes, i was outraged with Shane blatant racism and was happy to see him fired. Nevertheless, I understand Andrew Yang thoughtful explanation that dialog should be considered in certain situations where there is hope to enlighten. Simply hate in response to hate will only not move society forward.
136
No wonder SNL is not funny anymore. Comedy is dying because comedians are scared of taking risks and being politically incorrect. What was the last funny comedy you watched in the past 5 years? I honestly don’t know.
There are no funny movies anymore, nothing like TED, 21 Jump Street, The Hangover, Mean Girls, or Old School.
25
...actually, SNL has been terrific lately. Is grumpy old man considered a slur?
9
@Nicolas Gutierrez It's the Asian slur he uses that ends him. No one would tolerate a comedian using the N word for African Americans, why is the Asian population not the same?
14
@Nicolas Gutierrez True humor makes everyone laugh. If the comedians on SNL can tell jokes or act in skits without using slurs or insulting a particular group of people, let them do so.
8
Mr. Yang finds himself the target of ire for his method of responding to a slur. He's under fire because his way of addressing the stereotypes, slurs, and prejudices hurled at him don't align with what others believe to be the right course of action. And he's getting bashed for offering Gillis a path to redemption. Seriously?
146
I'm sorry but making ethnic jokes about Asians is very different from making ethnic jokes about African-Americans.
African-Americans have always been marginalized and have had to endure so much that is wrong. Ethnic jokes made at their expense should not be allowed in a civil society.
China and the Chinese are behemoths on the world stage. The ethnic Chinese dominate many countries in Asia from a commercial perspective and are in no way a marginalized group. Therefore, different standards should apply.
Andrew Yang is right. This is more political correctness run amok.
2
You not only missed the point Yang was trying to make, you went in the complete opposite direction
Also if you believe Asians haven’t been marginalized you need to reread your histories.
6
@Sirlar
The Chinese domination of OTHER countries has nothing to do with the experience of Chinese-Americans who were brought here to build railroads, and in many ways were treated no better than African American slaves.
If their experience in other countries matter, perhaps you should remember that some of the richest despots in the world are black leaders of African nations. Mugabe comes to mind.
5
Yet another reason to like Yang...an unlikely voice of reason for our times.
11
Can we please start holding our leaders and politicians accountable for their racist statements, views and policies and leave comedians alone.
9
I like the Andy Yang, smart guy some common sense very articulate unfortunately the rest of the pack will drown him out with their extremism
4
I really admire Mr. Yang for his candidacy and for his response here. I don’t like to see people get hurt. But that does not excuse anti-Asian racism. “Where are you from?” America. “No really, where are you from?” It’s absolutely pernicious and needs to stop.
6
@Dave
Every person with a non-Anglophone name gets that, regardless of race or skin color.
3
It's about time something like this happens. People have been calling out anti-black, anti-Jewish racism forever, and action is taken for the mildest offenses. I hope the firing of Gillis shows America that anti-Asian racism is real, damaging, and hurtful. For too long, people have been thinking it's ok to make fun of Asians because that's the thing to do.
7
As a comedian you have the right to blurt any stupid idea that pops in your head but a few months ago I heard Jay Leno provide the best logic regarding this topic. If you want the big fat corporate (NBC) pay check you have to learn to perform non offensive comedy. This rule has been in place for a long time. It's called having intelligence and class.
11
Has SNL ever had any major Asian cast member?
Has CNN ever had any major Asian news anchor with his/her own show?
Has NBC ever had any major Asian news anchor with his/her own show?
Has HBO ever had any major TV series with Asian American theme?
Has NPR ever had any Asian national news reporter except on international reporting?
Funny how these so called inclusive and woke news/entertainment powers haven't been that inclusive when it comes to Asian Americans.
5
When they go low, we go high.
5
Why should we forgive Shane Gillis? He's shown zero remorse.
It blows my mind that people get more worked-up about "cancel culture" than the actions that cause it. See also: Dave Chapelle's new, reactionary, cringe-inducing stand-up special.
30
@Jeff D
Dude, the same weapons can be turned against you, once your views fall out of favor. Believe it or not, you are not especially embued with universal truth.
Also - Davd Chapelle is funny.
16
@Jeff D why does he need to show remorse? Yes he talked in crude terms. Nowadays everything crude is equated with racism. Grow a backbone, have confidence in yourself, don't worry about what others have to say about you and you will be much better off.
1
Pretty ironic that SNL fired Gillis for jokes that he made, yet had Donald Trump host in late 2015, months after he called Mexicans rapists and drug dealer and announced he would ban all Muslims entering the country. Then one year later, SNL acted like the incident never happened and they despise him. Lets face it, Lorne Michaels is a hack who has no clear stance on anything. SNL's philosophy of pointed comedy seems to be go wherever the wind blows, never have a position on anything unless its what mass amounts of people agree with.
That's why Real Time with Bill Maher is a million times more profound, important and most importantly, funny. Because at least he will tell you what he believes regardless of whether or not you agree with him.
5
What a joyless and humorless world we live in. Everyone just wants to feel outraged and righteous. Andrew Yang is a breath of fresh air. Keep those self-deprecating jokes coming, Mr. Yang. You have my vote.
Sincerely,
an unoffended Asian
15
So we can have a President who is constantly tweeting racial slurs, but we can't have a comedian take a shot at anyone or he's fired. Can we please have the same guidelines for the President at least??
11
You make a very valid point. Unfortunately you have to take this issue up with the American electorate, and given their tolerance/support of Trumps racism and xenophobia I don’t think our chances are good.
2
@RCJCHC
Sorry, which slurs has the President tweeted exactly? Since he's "constantly tweeting racial slurs" you surely have some examples?
1
Thank you, Andrew.
5
Andrew Yang showed magnanimity, a gentlemanly response to racial slur. I am Chinese, it hurts to hear about Gillis old time "humor", a so called comedic act. My grandfather and father had myself also had been called "ch...k", hear jokes about Chinese drivers, and on and on.
However, Gillis getting fired give us a chance for dialogue on racism. When comedians use these old, cheap shots today for humor, it is not humor to us. It is reviving our memory as a minority of being drawn as rats with buckteeth and a pigtail as a rat's tail. Personally, I am fearful that we, Asians will be targeted again should U.S. and China escalate further into a serious trade conflict. It happened many years ago in Chicago when a group of white men beat a young Chinese man to death, having mistaken him as a Japanese, during a time when Japanese auto sales were growing rapidly, with U.S. auto sales going down.
Firing Shane Gillis most probably will not stop racism. Stopping cheap racist shots/acts will. The best classy comedy is about self, the imperfect self, the bungling self, acts of self-deprecation in any tone. I recall in my memory many comedians of old who did not use racial slurs or racial profiling who were the best comdians of all. Let their names be forever in our memories, Bob Hope, Jack Benny, Joan Rivers, John Cleese......., and many more.
7
In NYC it is okay to treat Asian-Americans like they don't matter and dump on them. Just ask Mayor DiBlasio. His electoral calculus is based on pitting Blacks, Latinos, White Liberals against poor and middle-class Asians by promoting the false narrative that Asian-Americans "cheat" by working hard, studying extra, forgoing Netflix/Hulu/HBO, skip McD, to pay for test prep to get into the top public schools. Never mind that Asians, as a group, are the poorest in the city, among the least educated family backgrouds. DiBlasio does mind that Asian have the lowest voting rate. When the mayor of NYC dumps on Asians, why wouldn't a comedian? When looking for blame, start at the top.
15
@tomp
You're promoting the "false narrative". Bill de Blasio (you deliberately misspell his name) has not said any of those things you accuse him of.
1
@Sirlar His lackey, "Handicapper General" Carranza, is trying to eliminate merit based admissions to elite high schools because Asians make up a disproportionate number of students. Somehow, Asians are gaming the system (aka "cheat") to get in. This, and the claims by many, including members of de Blasio administration, that Asians get admitted "unfairly", have all been reported right here in the NY Times. Are you saying that NY Times promote "false narratives"?
3
I listened to 40 minutes of a recent podcast by Shane Gillis & was disgusted not only by racist 'jokes' but also by multiple 'jokes' about rape & general misogyny.
Mr. Gillis is in his 30s but appears to have a maturity level similar to Brett Kavanaugh's behavior when he was in college.
Gillis is free to be as repulsive as he wishes but SNL has a brand to protect & it makes sense they wouldn't want to sully the show with him. I say this as someone who loves Dave Chappelle, Kevin Hart & plenty of other comedians who are occasionally offensive. The problem with Gillis vs someone like Dave Chappelle is Chappelle is intelligent and incisive whereas Gillis is an idiot & a hatemonger.
I'm white but members of my immediate family are Asian American & I'm constantly surprised how racism directed at Asians gets a pass in our society.
It's fine Mr. Yang is encouraging a culture of forgiveness & he has every right to do that. I'm just not on board in this particular instance.
I think most women who listen to the same podcast I listened to would be revolted by comments about women & particularly about violence in general & sexual violence against women in particular.
The last acceptable form of hate in this country is misogyny. It's everywhere, including coming out of the White House. Anyone who thinks Trump's "Access Hollywood" tape was funny would like Shane Gillis.
We need less of all of this.
I shed no tears for Shane Gillis.
13
Simply put, Mr. Yang’s response is nothing short of presidential.
I will most likely not vote for him, but individual 1 could learn a lot from the honorable Mr. Yang.
8
I watched Comedy Central last evening-roasting Alec Baldwin. Shane Gillis would have been given a social justice award by Asian Americans compared to some of the comedians' shticks last evening. It was rough. So, is the test for overstepping racial, sexual and ethnic boundaries "in the eye of the beholder?" Guidelines, someone, please!
1
@Kate Mcgah
SNL is run by Lorne Michaels - someone who managed to gather tons of comedy talent to produce a show that manages to elicit from audiences and average of 5.3 laughs PER SEASON.
If anyone wants to watch a real comedy show, watch reruns of SCTV. Here's some skits to watch: Perry Como's "He's still alive" tour, Eugene Levy as Bobby Bittman, and John Candy as Mayor Tommy Shanks.
Somebody who is running for president is going to need a thick skin, and a strong capacity to live and let live. Probably the best response is to say that the insult directed at Yang personally is not important. Racist comments directed at Asians in general is important, but should be evaluated objectively. Comics say outrageous things to elicit a response and to cause tension, which is then released with a punch line. SNL is qualified to evaluate whether Gillis was using Asian stereotypes as part of an act that commented on racism and stereotypes (for laughs and social commentary), or whether he was simply acting as a racist to get cheap laughs from a non-Asian audience. If it is the latter, he shouldn't be given a spot at SNL. That's a tough call, but Lorne Michaels is a better judge of whether a comic has stepped over the line than most others.
1
I’m glad he was dropped from the show. None of his material is funny anyway.
4
Seems many people are tired of 'outrage culture' and praise Yang for being understanding.
But let's get some things straight. People in this country know when they are being racist or straight up rude to others. Many like to live under cover of 'civility' all the while demeaning those who they deem 'lesser.'
The country has practiced this its entire history. For those calling out 'outrage culture' because some are finally speaking out, your words to my deaf ears.
4
Seems many people are tired of 'outrage culture' and praise Yang for being understanding.
But let's get some things straight. People in this country know when they are being racist or straight up rude to others. Many like to live under cover of 'civility' all the while demeaning those who they deem 'lesser.'
The country has practiced this its entire history. For those calling out 'outrage culture' because some are finally speaking out, your words to my deaf ears.
Can I be on SNL? I'm a funny comedian and I promise I have never made fun of anyone, not even babies! I'm super clean - never swear, never talk about bodily functions. I don't take political sides. I don't take sides on social issues- LGBQT, race, nationality, etc. I NEVER talk about religion, have never even used the word scientol... well, you know. I don't burp, pass gas or even cough.
For some reason, I've never been able to get any traction as a comedian. In fact, literally no one comes to my shows. Please, America, let me be a comedian. I promise, I won't say....anything.
5
Yang was magnanimous with his comment. It's a fallen world, don't cast the first stone.
6
I've looked through three articles on this and none actually tell us what Gillis said. How are we supposed to come to an informed opinion when the fundamental context is missing? "Comedian says a bad word" is not sufficient.
2
"We would benefit from being more forgiving rather than punitive."
I'm not a Yang supporter, but that's the presidential decorum I'm searching for to return to the White House.
5
I've looked through three articles on this and none actually tell us what Gillis said. How are we supposed to come to an informed opinion when the fundamental context is missing? "Comedian says a bad word" is not sufficient.
2
When I saw Gillis' interview on Twitter, I found him primitively racist and unfunny, and felt he deserved to lose his SNL slot.
Andrew Young showed an admirably generous attitude - what a difference from the current incumbent!
But the big question is, when will America, enriched by so many cultures and their fusion, go beyond racial division and stereotypes, to become the first post-ethnic society?
10
@Prof Dr Ramesh Kumar Biswas
I was thinking along the same line...the progress of Yang is an interesting watch to study if America delivers what she is supposed to stand for: equality, liberty and impartiality
2
Congratulations to Andrew Yang for having the courage to stand up to the groupthink of the Twitter left. Perhaps Yang understands that he’s the only candidate who could weigh in like this. Had Warren, Sanders or Biden made the exact same observation, those thoughts would have been disregarded and the candidate branded an irretrievable racist.
8
There is always the argument of, "as an Asian/Black/Hispanic, he should be more angry." People using that argument don't normally realize it is a racist argument. They probably want an eventual colorblind society; they just don't know how to lead by example.
3
I had never heard of Shane Gillis prior to all this, and now I'd like to decide for myself whether his comedy is racist (and/or funny) or not, so getting booted from SNL may work out pretty well for him.....
Also, kudos to Andrew Yang for preaching forgiveness, it's currently a very underrated practice in America these days.....
101
Great to have a presidential candidate who remains upbeat and positive -- choosing to focus on the lofty ideals that made the US so appealing (once upon a time, before Trumpism) to so many around the world.
I truely hope he wins on this merit and his no-nonsense intelligence.
2
Comedians who use slurs and curse words to get laughs are just lazy. Anyone can get a reaction using them. Try to make people laugh by saying clever, incisive comments about the human condition. That’s the mark of a truly gifted comedian.
7
Can we take a moment to reflect on how biased this piece is?
Why does this piece make it sound like this one blogger represents the voices of all Asian Americans? Andrew's position is not very much at odds with me at all, I am proud of the stance he took and think we should have more of that.
Andrew Yang made it clear his stance doesn't represent the depth and breadth of views on this matter, why is this article trying to represent the views of all Asian Americans like myself?
9
The best comedians make you laugh, cry and think. If you lack the craft you can always claim you're "pushing the boundaries" in some pathetic attempt at being outrageous, or even relevant. Back as far as Lenny Bruce it has always been fine lines drawn as to what is important and what is at best, impertinent.
I would like to see him rise in the order; unfortunately, taking the high road in these instances is not going to be enough fuel to carry him aloft.
Yang/Buttigieg
Now where's my Lucky Money?
1
Prejudice against Chinese anywhere in the world is unacceptable. I admire and everything about the Chinese except the Communist Party. It is evil. It’s people aren’t. The Chinese helped build America and Canada, suffered for it. That’s on us. We have to be better, more tolerant and less racist. Look inside for what’s wrong and change it.
2
Being a President or a Presidential Candidate there is an over-reach bending over backwards to the point of breaking where racism is considered. Only President Obama was called a liar in the history of State of the Union Speeches. Or the fact that serious racist incidents during his term was simple violence. He remained over the fray but did not help the Black cause. Similarly Andrew Yang may forgive but it is not helping the Asian-American stereotype racism. Forgiving is divine but only so much! Thank you SNL.
1
Could this possibly, finally, be a sign that there is a way to handle mistakes, and teaching people about respect for our differences, without a scorched-earth approach. Respect for others ALSO means respecting them enough to forgive their mistakes or ignorance (difference than words/acts that are intentional). Bravo Mr. Yang.
14
@David
I agree, David. Sometimes, it seems like some folks are simply waiting to be offended about something, anything. My awareness and respect for Mr. Yang went up considerably today.
4
Andrew Yang showed real leadership. He could have easily followed the outrage mob. Instead he is opening up a dialogue. There is a opportunity here for growth, for certain people to understand why their words can be so harmful.
I recently watched several long-form interviews with Yang and with every word I have been coming away more and more impressed.
20
Who exactly is "the Asian community," (seems a rather large constituency) who is their spokesperson presumably consulted to help us know that Yang is out of touch with them, and why can't he decide for himself how he reacts to slurs directed against him? Is he supposed to be a model for the model minority? Isn't that sort of burden exactly how racism works? Isn't it also hurtful and deeply toxic to suggest that forgiveness is just a voter grab? The article suggests this is one reason people love him. Perhaps his is a significant voice instead of just a divergent one. Let's stop silencing peacemakers because they are unacceptably nuanced. It is a failing strategy.
17
I remember Richard Pryor doing a very funny and credible imitation of white folks' speech. It made me realize how people experience each other. I thought it was hilarious and enlightening.
Comedians say and do outrageous things; that's their job. Is Shane Gillis being judged by the same standard as Richard Pryor, or have things changed?
5
Years ago I had a friend whose mother emigrated from Finland. She worked as a cook for a wealthy family. When given avocados to prepare, she removed the skin and pulp, and baked and served the seed! She had never seen an avocado.I find this story amusing. A story about the cultural limitations of a Finnish cook. I hope, in the effort to moderate our racist jabs, we don't lose the ability to laugh at each other - and with each other.
8
Confucius taught us humility, respect and perseverance which translates to self-responsibility, kindness and earnest efforts westerners equate to Asians being reserved, subservient and lacking in imagination that are easy targets for those lacking in understanding. Taking the 'high road' as some would say, is really just an everyday onus we innately possess stemming from that teaching. We remain humble without attacking ignorance and put forth our personal responsibility on bettering ourselves with respect for others, and mostly for ourselves because we know at the end of the day, it is upon ourselves to better our being, just as it is for the ignorant disrespectful others to better themselves or be left to their own consequences. One cannot readily change others, but one can definitely change ourselves and set examples for others. Mr. Yang did the right thing, he did not do Asians a disservice, he set a good example for self-responsibility, respect and humility.
3
The curse of social media coupled with outrage culture. Mr. Gillis looses his dream job and Mr. Yang has each and every statement parsed by legions of watch dogs because he had the temerity to forgive.
However, a genuine apology, instead of the classic insincere “if anyone was offended by”, would have gone a long way toward showing Mr. Gillis understood he made a mistake. His weak non apology was kind of like giving the finger to those offended. So he deserved to be let go. Not being white is a disadvantage in the United States. So I understand why there are groups on the lookout for racism in media. Even white people feel aggrieved.
Mr. Yang has demonstrated courage and leadership with his response. He has sought to diffuse a situation that usually devolves into vitriol, with dialogue. How refreshing. Talking about the issue at hand instead of rage tweeting. We could use that kind of leadership in this country.
6
In 1968, while I was in Navy bootcamp in Illinois, I was incensed to here a news article that two Native Americans were killed, as they walked home, on a dark road in Michigan by a very drunken White driver. All charges of drunken driving and involuntary manslaughter were dropped because both "Indians" had a beer before heading home - there was a law in Michigan at that time that it was illegal for "Indians" to imbibe alcohol. The court ruled both parties were equally to blame. I was angry not only that the decision was so uneven but also because the state I was born and raised in had such a law. Maybe it still does - I don't know. I haven't been home since then. My Grandmother was "Indian" and my Grandfather was Irish. I have cousins who identify as Black. That event brought to the surface an anger I have born since I can remember that the White government took away "Indian" territories, massacred us, put us on reservations, and made many laws to treat us as less than human. I put the word "Indian" in parentheses. It's a term wrongfully assigned by a "misguided" White explorer who thought he had found his way to India and Anglicized by the English. I despise the term "Native American" as there was no America before the Whites. We are Iroquois and Sioux, with all their subsets of nations, Cherokee, Choctaw, etc. But I coexist in peace with all. We are all humans and need to start acting like that. Don't let our thin skins destroy us.
8
Presidential candidate Andrew Yang says forgive Shane Gillis for his racist rant against Jews and Asians; sounds good but NBC has no requirement to reward Gillis's behavior with one of the top jobs for a comedian.
Gillis when given the opportunity to "own it" had this to say:
"I'm happy to apologize to anyone who's actually offended by anything I've said."
He both didn't apologize and imputed that some who seemed offended really were not.
Perhaps we should save our forgiveness for those with the awareness to express genuine remorse less we simply give a racist a pass and a slap on the back.
132
@Eric Lamar
The thing about cancel culture is that even when people showed full, genuine remorse, the mob proceeded to rip them apart anyway.
9
@Eric Lamar It was a very passive aggressive non-apology. Like a kid being scolded at school and forced to apologize for something they're not sorry for.
12
The new SNL cannot take a joke - just like most people out on the far left fringes of Dems. It's fascinating to me that this Comedian is HALF white, half Asian; for if he were fully Asian, its almost a certainty he would never have been dismissed. In today's world of strangulated comedy, you can use the N word, or crack jokes about race or gender - as long as you are clearly in that in that category yourself. Warped times.
10
Hummm....
I'm a female.
If we had listened to Yang's advice then we would still be forced to stay behind black-painted windows so no man would see us, be driven mad by our beauty and have him be forced to break down our door and rape us.....
Wake up, Andrew.
I turned off SNL years ago when they were all trying to out-slob themselves.
This one sounds like he was the winner.
4
You have to love Gillis’s chutzpah when he proclaims himself a courageous risk taker as an explanation of why he ridicules Asian Americans. The greatest comedy is his arrogance.
8
Free speech, Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor and George Carlin are all dead. Too bad.
12
It amazes me how the media routinely stereotypes Italian-Americans in the most hateful way, and yet, it's condoned. I applaud SNL's response, but this same show, like all other media outlets, is far more racially insensitive to Italians (e.g., the Lois C.K. skit, amomg many) than this skit, and yet, that goes unpunished.
8
Unbelievable. This guy does nothing but try to bring people together and this paper (and the activists it amplifies) would rather him join in with an acceptable outrage culture reaction. Are we supposed to get on Yang for saying 'I know a lot of doctors.' I'm pretty sure I've heard similar comments by Preet Bharara. Should he be cast aside as well. And I've heard similar comments from any number of Jews. Do these comments reflect the best aspects of ourselves? Probably not. But they are not evil. They are not ill-intentioned. They should not be a dis-qualifier for public service.
If anything, people like Andrew Yang (including his bad jokes and his outreach to Gillis) are necessary to bring people together. The preferred outrage approach just divides us.
22
The radical left has hijacked the psyche of individuals- You laugh, cry and forgive on THEIR terms.. anything less is unacceptable.
14
Well, I sure am starting to take notice of Yang. We love the Asian caricatures on Big Bang, Simpsons, Seinfeld......and yes we do know a lot of doctors and engineers :-)). I understand we are expected to be pc all of the time in an effort to be considerate to everyone. Lets not forget to enjoy a bit of a laugh at ourselves once in a while.
BUT, Gillis is awful, absolutely unfunny. It's a good thing he lost his job, now he can introspect and choose to work in another profession, one that does not need a sense of humor.
3
This article is just an opinion, but it’s spot on. Yang is being lazy like Gillis. He’s only 2nd generation, but he can learn from Obama’s campaign. He is desperate for national attention & it’s base, but it’s demoralizing having him succumb to these
tired AA jokes. We aren’t well represented in the media & arts etc, so he’s just acerbating the AA community. He himself doesn’t have math affinity which illustrates the diversity in the community. I was wondering why the crowd was carrying “Math” signs. Sheesh.
What a reactionary, serious, soulless society we have become.
Independent of whether Gillis should have been booted off of SNL, the faux outrage and faux offense people take to comedians' words are laughable.
I am Jewish. I often hear Jewish jokes by comedians (along with ALL other groups, nationalities, races, sexual orientations. etc.) Sometimes I think it's funny; sometimes I don't. Never have I taken offense.
It's one person (and someone I don't know) trying to be funny. I'm going to let that person offend me? Not a chance.
We all need to LIGHTEN UP! Comedians make fun of ALL of us. Laughing at ourselves is good for the soul. If you don't like it, simpy don't watch or listen.
16
Lost in the discussion is Gillis’ anti-Semitic “jokes”. Is that form of hate less worthy of condemnation? Or are are we simply becoming more immune to it?
2
I don't know what all this fuss is about him taking the high road from right and left...what do they want him to do? get down to Gillis level?
8
Come on SNL, make Andrew Yang your next guest!
15
When I was new to this country and not well versed with language and culture, the kids at the back of the class would make fun out of me. The teacher, a tiny woman with large afro, whispered to me that I need to respond because, if I don't, things won't get better. It was the best lesson I learned in high school.
Anti-Asian racism "is somehow considered more acceptable" precisely because people like Yang who are dumb enough to say comedians are somehow different and therefore should be exempted, when all he had to say was that no racism against anybody by anybody is acceptable under any circumstance.
SNL was right and Yang was wrong. And by looking at Gillis' response, he still neither understands nor care what the problem is with his behavior.
3
As a bi-racial American, Yang is right to call for both a level of maturity in dealing with issues of race and the fact that jokes against Asians are dealt with differently than those against blacks. This is not some comparison of victimhood but simply a fact. BTW - I have made similar comments on how Mormons are routinely slighted. Yang also brings up the critical issue of intent. We are at a time of victimhood and grievance based politics where the media and left spends its time playing gotcha. They are eating their young and old by defining perfect by choice of words rather than intent - Biden may be the latest victim. Go Yang!
10
i have thought that we as a nation seem to underestimate and devalue public persons who have LEARNED and GROWN and CHANGED!! We generally have been quick to point a finger at something someone did twenty years ago, without acknowledging how that person has changed their stances (ie: Joe Biden as ONE example). I find it refreshing to hear that Mr. Gillis will meet with Mr Yang. How else will people learn???
8
"Mr. Yang’s comments could have been read as an argument that “Asians have it worse” than other minority groups"
Yea, one would have to really stretch to interpret his comments this way. IMO
6
I believe in giving comedians and artists freedom, even when, and maybe especially when, it goes against accepted norms. BUT I listened to that tape. It had nothing to do with comedy, it had nothing to do with creativity. There was no point to it except racism. It was just two racists being nasty about Asians. And it's clear to me that had it been any other ethnic group, this wouldn't even be a question.
3
I'm no prude and I think Gillis' standup is pretty good, but I say "live by the sword, die by the sword".
If you want to do a subversive "edgy" podcast of racial comedy, that's fine, have at it, hopefully it's funny. But don't complain when a mainstream show like SNL decides it's not their cup of tea.
99
@Max From what I have read, he didn't complain. In fact, he said he understood their decision.
11
If Shane had made a real apology, and actually asked for forgiveness, acknowledging the wrongs of his actions and expressed a real intention to improve, I would be with Yang, but his nonpology to "Anyone who is actually offended" is just perpetrating Shane's racist stance.
57
@Human Because very few people are actually offended. There is a new badge of social currency from being offended on behalf of other people. Prime example was all of the people offended by the Washington Redskins. Those who were most offended by the imagery weren't Native Americans.
So yes, when there is fake outrage, the apologies should also be fake.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-survey-explores-how-native-americans-feel-about-the-name-washington-redskins-no-its-not-that-survey-this-one-is-new/2019/08/09/e38553bc-b581-11e9-8949-5f36ff92706e_story.html
7
@Human
Exactly! Yang is racing to boost this guy, when he has no idea what is in his heart.
Hate to say it, but this is the most publicity Yang has gotten, isn't it?
1
@Human
What's with these constant demands for public apologies? What's that really about? We all get a kick out of making someone admit guilt? Clearly Gillis doesn't think he did anything wrong, or that he needs to improve, so why would he apologize? It's not like the words came out of his mouth accidentally, he knew what he was saying. An apology would be meaningless, so why insist on one?
2
Years ago there was a book titled “Animal Farm “, I believe, that describes a world where free-speech is curbed and everyone is constantly under surveillance for the slightest deviation from the party line. Fiction has become reality in this Social feel-good society of ours today..
8
That’s pretty good of him to be so magnanimous, but darn it that means I have yet another candidate to consider — can’t those Democrats get it together and mold and model one guy that’s going to win (Oops not gender PC enough!)
4
SNL should just remove itself from the air.
Many of their COMIC stunts are funny, but we all realize that they are comedy and not serious commentary.
Shane Gillis, Al Franken, Eddie Murphy, and so many others are or were in the business of pushing the envelope on making us laugh and now you better play it safe or get fired.
Seems like we can push the boundaries of sex on tv with Game of Thrones and so many other programs but we are retreating on areas that are comic.
5
I had the opportunity to see Shane Gillis’ act in Baltimore last month. Whether it was whites, blacks, Asians, or anyone else, no group was off limits. That said, about half of his act was making fun of rural white males in Mechanicsburg and also included bits on Donald Trump. Another quarter was self deprecating jabs at himself. And you know what? Everyone in there was in tears.
He crushed it. In West Baltimore!
He has a bit about Southern hypocrisy when it comes to how they treat African Americans well only if they play for the Alabama Crimson Tide football team. A significant black attendance loved it—including my friends who were there.
Did he cross the line on his podcast? It appears so.
But this did not seem like a guy whose intention is to offend or spew hate. He’s talented. Let him redeem himself.
78
@Doc
Self-mockery has never been a problem. Mocking others is always a problem.
5
Ahh, intentions. You know what they say about “paved in good intentions.” And, poking fun also at white males doesn’t make racial slurs against minorities any more acceptable.
10
@Doc
Did Shane used the racist and derogatory terms for Blacks and Hispanics in his Baltimore show? There is a big difference between making ethnic jokes and racists hate jokes. Let Shane redeem himself elsewhere with the SNL platform.
1
Sounds like Yang handled it perfectly. As an aside, why did it take SNL 45 years to find an Asian cast member?
11
More people calling jokes "beyond excusable." And another comedian is fired for being judged too offensive. Comedy is constantly censored these days. It can't be dangerous or edgy. Because nobody knows the difference between actual hatred and a joke. I love that Gillis will sit down with Yang to talk things out, as though Gillis is actually some serious racist. I'm sure in real life they'll hit it off great, crack some one-liners and laugh at themselves a little.
3
I'm Asian American and a life-long Democrat. All the other Democratic candidates were conspicuously silent about this. There's plenty of outrage to go around when a Republican or Trump is racist. But when an Asian Dem. candidate is the target? Crickets. Only complain about racism when it serves you, eh? I hate to say it, I'm getting disillusioned. I hope Yang's better-than-expected run is making them uncomfortable.
135
@Lilireno Please don't think that what I am about to say is meant to condone racism against any group or to trivialize the trauma of being the victim of racism. But I think you have drawn a false analogy here.
Yes, there's plenty of outrage when a Republican (politician) or Trump is racist. That's because they are people with power whose policies affect all Americans. Everyone should be outraged by and prepared to condemn such remarks .
But the racist remarks in this case were made by a young comic who, before he was hired by SNL, was unknown to the overwhelming majority of Americans. One of the many reasons that our democracy is floundering is the celebrity-driven-ness of our culture. The Roman emperors knew that the populace could be controlled with bread and circuses. The formula still works. Our circus -- the internet, 24-hour news outlets, armies of nattering pundits, etc. -- hijacks our attention away from the myriad serious challenges the country faces.
The other Democratic candidates did not ignore this b/c it served them. (BTW they also ignored Gillis's many anti-black statements.) They ignored it b/c a comment from a comic does not merit their attention. Yang replied b/c he had been singled out. But even he didn't "complain about racism"; he offered an olive branch.
I guarantee you that, if "a Republican or Trump" ever uses the same anti-Asian slur as Gillis, every Democratic candidate will have something censorious to say about it.
14
@cds333 I understand what you are saying and I'm not trying to say that Gillis is equivalent to POTUS or other elected official and I'm not switching parties any time soon. But I've been hearing these candidates talk at length about the values of the Democratic Party and their stances on inclusion, immigration, civil rights, etc. So it would have been at the very least appropriate for one of them to make a quick simple statement of solidarity. The silence was loud. Btw there were no anti-Black statements in the revealed videos.
11
@Lilireno Cory Booker at the last debate even proposed a White House Office on Racism -- Hello?
2
Okay. I think I've found the source of the problem---for me, anyway.
Like so many other "comedians" I've heard these days, Shane Gillis is simply not funny. Mind you now, I'm no overly-sensitive leftist prude. I love a good put-down as much as the next person. Polish jokes; so-called 'gay' jokes; ethnic jokes---if they're funny, I let myself enjoy the joke. I even love WASP jokes, and I am one. (a WASP, not a 'WASP joke')
The world---or more accurately, certain people in it---needs to lighten up and allow themselves to laugh....at themselves. Even Andrew Yang could have used the moment not to correct Mr. Gillis, but to laugh along with him, and then gently chide him for a sit-down.
And Shane Gillis? You need to get some better material. You possess all of the self-confidence and edginess of your age, with none of the wit. Like Eddie Murphy and Andrew Dice Clay and so many countless others before you, you may one day discover that there is a huge difference between mere insult and the art and craft of being truly funny.
Until then, the world could use, say, more truck drivers, or EMT's. What we don't need is another unfunny 'comedian.'
2
This is great. Cancel Culture is horrible and needs to end.
Comedians should stop apologizing - hint, it doesn't actually help you - you still get cancelled and you have admitted you did something wrong. Better to stand up to the bullies and get fired. You won't have a paycheck, but you will keep your self-respect.
57
Gill uses exactly the same tactic as trump for exactly the same reason. They both use shorthand words and phrases, at the expense of others, all designed to rile up a reaction from their audiences. Gill wants “laughter” and trump wants fear and anger - but Gill wants those base emotions as well, because that’s what causes the “laughter.”
While I agree with Mr. Yang that forgiveness is essential and am hopeful that if Gill and Mr. Yang do sit down together there may be a chance for enlightenment, I also agree that SNL made the right and only choice. To have allowed Gill on the show would have been tacit acceptance of his “humor” and rationale for it. We’ve already got that kind of idiotic behavior in the White House with a large enough bully pulpit. We don’t need another, thank you very much.
2
Is the idea that there are differences between races/sexes expressable in any form? We now see that a comedic expression of this thought must be policed. Is it ok to ask what we are valuing when we value diversity? I hope people begin to see the absurdity and futility of censorship soon. Maybe try to put yourself in the position of Hollywood censors of the 50's they were honestly trying to protect us. Most religious censors have good intentions too. The Chinese want to maintain order. The. Soviets needed to protect the idea of a planned economy.
3
This is our current culture. Forgiveness is unforgivable.
7
Sometimes in life if you push it to the edge you fall off the cliff. Words and actions can have consequences.
An eye for an eye and the world goes blind. Andrew's approach is the right approach in that we should forgive and renew instead of perpetuating the alienation.
9
It gets boring. All the late night comedians doing the same George Carlin routine. Saying it funny doesn't make it so. Take a look at early Bill Burr tapes to see what I mean. Even a genius like Dangerfield wasn't as funny until he discovered his voice.
Dave Chappelle latest special was rated 31% by the pro's band 99% the rest. No wonder there aren't many critics deployed by the media anymore. Are they always this wrong?
I keep hearing comedians explain their jokes. Silverman says she knows why she's funny even when no one is laughing. Handler must be a disciple of her's. Telling people what to think and how to act went out of fashion in the fifties.
Was it a Lenny Bruce documentary that had an interview with a pretty angry cop? He said if someone talked like that in front of his sister... I understand he was enforcing the law but when did these critic's / entertainment MBA's / Marketing Scientist become cops? When did we become cops?
2
I'm an Asian American and I think it far to say that, at least until fairly recently, most Americans were far more tolerant of anti-Asian racism and demeaning stereotypes then they would be of, say, anti-Black racism or anti-Semitism. Shane Gillis was not saying anything new. He was just enjoying making unabashedly racist comments because he thought he could get away with it, and because he thought others (presumably mostly white) would be entertained by his transgression of norms. But with regard to explicit and clear-cut racism, you're either against it per se no matter who it's against or you're not. So given his non-apology, I'd have to say that Gillis shouldn't be on SNL.
50
@ANCNY
People are only as racist toward you as you allow them to be. If anti-Blackness and anti-Semitism seem to be more off-limits, it's because Black people and Jewish people fight back. If Asian America wants respect, get in the streets. Run for office. Stop complaining comfortably from the sidelines. All racism is bad, yes, but you're not owed anything if you're not in the fray.
3
@ANCNY
You’re pretty amazing for being able to know Mr Gillis’ thoughts. “He thought he could get away with it” and “he thought others (mostly whites) would be entertained.” That wouldn’t be entertained in a court of law.
In addition to mind reading, it’s amazing how while discussing racism one can talk in broad brush strokes about “mostly whites” enjoying such transgressions.
This implicit - and broadly acceptable- anti-white bias is where the left loses the moral high ground. You can’t complain about racism and bias while simultaneously lumping all white people together (who, surprise, make up the majority of our neighbors and colleagues) as some racist, privileged monolith. You can’t, that is, if you want to be taken seriously.
7
@Mrs Ming
"Mrs. Ming"
Too funny!
1
Yang is sharp and mature. I’d be happy to see him as our president.
9
Offering forgiveness before it is requested or before an unconditional apology is made only emboldens people to make further attacks. Gillis’s sneering “apology” is proof of his lack of regard for others:
“I’m happy to apologize to anyone who’s actually offended by anything I’ve said.”
Instead of groveling to this racist, Yang should be using his national platform to point out the continued anti-Asian racism and holding people accountable for their words and actions.
1
While comedians have made fun of people for a very long time and it is understandable that there is increased sensitivity to ones-own identity, I hope that those experiencing racism or other discrimination will understand what others are going through and not vote for people who defend racism.
As for the reflexive prostrating at the temple of Political Correctness performed by SNL, this kind of over-compensation belies the fundamental weakness of mostly Democrats. How can we change and grow if we cut off the conversation and banish people?
2
That is the point- banishment.
They don’t want anyone to change or grow they want to punish, cancel and fire!
They don’t want a conversation they want to dictate terms.
It must be super exhilarating to have such power over others and such ability to censor and silence.
1
To anyone talking about political correctness and sensitivity, wake up. Gillis took the lowest road possible and he did it deliberately. The jokes are not funny because they’re original or creative, it’s just about the shock value of blatant racism.
Kudos to Yang for taking the high road but this is not a comedian who doesn’t understand what he’s doing. And the blowback is not about sensitivity. It’s just racism plain and simple.
52
I cannot understand why there is any outrage at Andrew in this situation? And why The NY Times is trying to paint this story as his supporters revolting against him for his failure to “properly” condemn Shane as the mob see fits.
He’s preaching calm, thoughtful discussion and reflection. Exactly what we need right now. A less punitive culture will temper all this outrage(and the reactionary politics that result from it). Good for Andrew. He has my vote!
12
Mr. Yang is correct of course but forgiveness no one requires in these circumstances. Worrying so much about what everyone says is more toxic to the culture than some silly old-fashioned ethnic caricatures that one had imagined went out of style fifty years ago, about the time the Rat Pack stopped headlining in Las Vegas. Comics, in any case, adopt personae, play characters in their acts, so they should be given some latitude for that sort of buffoonery. People imagine they are being smart and modern with their outrage but it has more the odor of the same petty intolerance they pretend to abhor.
5
I imagine most of the folks telling the rest of us to get over ourselves and laugh at this so-called comedy have not experienced a lifetime of being the target of it. This type of "humor" is bottom of the barrel and should not be tolerated or excused. It is meant to be hurtful, to denigrate, to keep people in their place.
Please don't remind me of Lenny Bruce and others who would be excoriated in today's world. Our society has evolved. Would you be defending the humor of a blackface minstrel show in 2019 too?
1
If provocative comics are put on a zero-tolerance policy by our woke culture, we will lose an important vehicle to shine a focused light on unacceptable conditions in society. They have to be given the freedom to fail, at some times badly, because what they do inevitably involves taking risks and working without a net — at times they will go too far.
“You don’t know what you’ve got ‘til it’s gone.”
35
This whole affair is summed up perfectly by "Kevin" in the top Reader Pick section of these comments.
Just read that and you'll know what sanity is.
In case you've forgotten in this age of insanity.
The entire issue just another of our daily American distractions.
Till the next one.
1
Yang continues to impress, and SNL continues to disappoint. Shane Gillis should not have lost his job. But this might be the best thing to ever happen to him because now he's viewed as a martyr by other comics (just check out what Anthony Jeselnik & others are saying) and a lot of people who hadn't heard of him know all about him now. Dumb move by SNL. He didn't make the comments in social settings or things of that nature. He said them in comic acts or podcasts that were based on comedy. The one safe haven we've had from PC culture (stand-up comedy) is now on the verge of going away because of nonsense like this.
3
I'm glad that Andrew Yang will be sitting down with Gillis. As a Chinese American, I don't think Gillis should have been fired for his racist slurs (whether they were "in character" or not doesn't really matter, as the damage has been done), but he should have been fired for the tweet he made afterward, which showed he had no idea why people were offended or what taking risks in comedy entails. He doesn't seem to be a racist to me, just someone who is incredibly ignorant and immature, who is unwilling to learn and grow as a person and comedian. Maybe Yang can help him do that.
61
We've seriously become much too snow-flakey these days. We won't even begin to LISTEN to the other side. I once spoke with a so-called "size diversity" activist about body image and she was so adamant on mirrorless gyms/fitness clubs that she have NOTHING to do with my reasonings for mirrored yoga/pilates/barre studios (it has to do with knowing whether your positioning is correct). She was also SHOCKED (not just surprised, but SHOCKED) to hear that people like me (small, very small) don't have it better at sales. Or she half dismisses my concerns. I've found that with MOST size diversity activists. I also agree with the article that diversity/racism is very much focused on anti-black/Latinx/Native narratives and we, as Asians, apparently have it more privileged. That's true, but only in some respects (as a child of one parent who worked in finance and another in IT, I didn't have to deal with, going to, say, poorly funded schools or living in an unsafe community). I still had to deal with people (white) teachers assuming I was an ESL student and later, as an adult, (Mandarin-speaking) Asian sales associates "Pretty Woman-ing" me because I'm NOT a Mandarin speaker (basically, an English speaker, especially one with a Canadian accent is NOT a CRA) . Like size diversity, our issues are dismissed, unless it's related to, say, education.
5
The truth and reconciliation process starts with the truth, it doesn't end there. If someone acknowledges and takes full responsibility for their mistake the rest of us need to decide whether we are willing to do our part to complete the process through reconciliation (a.k.a. forgiveness). Andrew Yang clearly understands truth and reconciliation is a shared burden carried by both the wrong-doer and the wronged. Whether this understanding on his part is enough for him to earn your vote, at the very least it should be sufficient to earn your praise. It's time for everyone across the political spectrum to honestly ask themselves whether there is an apology sincere enough a person who has wronged or offended them could offer that they would accept. Let those without sin throw the first stone.
1
I'm a white male boomer, and I find Andrew Yang's candidacy inspirational. Its way past time that my cohort cede power to diversity.
7
We need more responses like Yang's. The hysterical must-be-fired/shunned response teaches offenders nothing but to hide their offensiveness. It becomes a way to prove our own righteousness. If we want people to actually rethink what they do and possibly change, then we need to engage like Yang. Good for him. What a class act.
8
Andrew Yang's personality is exactly the type we need for all American's to regain trust within our own citizens and foreign relations. There is way too much "labeling" going on from both liberals and conservatives in American society today without any forgiveness.
7
Me. Yang is very compassionate about people. I hope he gets more media coverage.
3
We officially no longer tolerate the language of the "isms" (sex, age, race, denomination) and we punish those who are caught saying bad words. But we as a culture still permit daily little and big murders of those different from the ruling few. I'd like to think that letting the language crimes go until we don't feel them so horribly on our frail sensibilities (and this from a woman who was devastated at being referred to by her then husband as a fxx cxx - I have said the real words to myself until they are just words and no longer hurt) might give us the strength of character to address the actions that keep women and other "others" in a dark place.
3
Andrew Yang 2020. Divisive identity politics with destructive consequences, even if historically and emotionally understandable, are not going to save us on our rapidly deteriorating planet. No excuse for mistakes, except we are human, and that is what humans do.
compassionate wonkiness
Andrew Yang 2020
8
We need more of our leaders to demonstrate compassion. Isn't that what MLK would have done? He wouldn't have tried to "cancel" the people who literally wanted him dead, he would have tried to change their hearts because he saw it as the only humanistic way forward.
I don't understand why this is even considered remotely controversial.
5
Have always felt bigotry, prejudice and racism were taught and passed on through generations where people did not intermingle and know one another at a personal level. Stereotypes and fear keep us apart.
I saw that change when the high school my daughter went to was one chosen to bus in other students from different areas.
Amazing how so many of the younger generation do not share the same prejudices that their parents do.
Caucasian are not the only race that have their prejudices, you see it in asian and afro American. And let's not leave out religion. Separatism is never good.
2
Shane Gillis is a distraction from Andrew Yang’s campaign. The media should focus more on his ideas on automation, universal income, and the future of work. He also supports Medicare for all, has a practical climate plan, and has ideas for decreasing the stranglehold of lobbyists in DC (democracy dollars).
69
Ok, he’s forgiven, whatever. But I don’t want to watch him.
1
I remember the SNL episode that Richard Pryor hosted. He and Chevy Chase did a classic and hysterical sketch about Pryor's character applying for a job and Chase was the character doing the job interview. One can probably find it on YouTube. There is no way that this same sketch would air today on SNL. Richard Pryor made fun of his race, white people and women. His work would never see the light of day in these days of political correctness. I miss him and his spot on humor and of course George Carlin.
5
As an Asian American, I watched Yang’s rise with interest that quickly turned to skepticism when he started to court the alt-right by appearing on Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan’s podcasts. This cements my view tha Yang is not sincere in his stance against racism. His strategy, clearly, is to appease the alt-right and not to make concrete changes (firing someone who uses a racial slur).
1
I don't see a conflict here.
Mr. Gillis and Mr. Yang can sit down and have their moment to connect, perhaps Mr. Gillis will learn something.
At the same time, Mr. Gillis doesn't get to be rewarded a spot on one of the most celebrated and coveted jobs in the comedy world, not to mention the nation.
Words and actions have consequences, and Mr. Gillis is now facing them. Just because Mr. Yang wishes to forgive Mr. Gillis (and we should, provided Mr. Gillis shows some remorse and insight) it doesn't follow that Mr. Gillis gets to keep his his job.
38
I've looked through three articles on this, and none actually tell us what he said. How are we supposed to come to an informed opinion when the fundamental context is missing? "Comedian says a bad word" is not sufficient.
4
I've looked through three articles on this, and none actually tell us what he said. How are we supposed to come to an informed opinion when the fundamental context is missing? "Comedian says a bad word" is not sufficient.
Can we just take a moment and give Mr. Yang credit for being a thoughtful adult with an opinion on forgiveness and the need for communication? His attitude is refreshing and genuine.
Piling on the condemnation of Mr. Gillis (and I guess SNL for not knowing who he is) is a little trite at this point. Yes, many comedians are offensive. Watch old videos of comedy icons joke about abusing women. They are out there and easily find-able. Hoping that people grow and develop empathy. Perhaps Mr. Gillis is unfunny and untalented. I guess we'll never know now that he has been exiled forever for telling offensive jokes. Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, Chris Rock, Rodney Dangerfield, Joan Rivers, and on and on wouldn't have stood a chance today. Maybe that's a good thing?
57
@impatient
Don't forget Mel Brooks. Blazing Saddles and The Producers would NEVER get made today.
4
I've looked through three articles on this, and none actually tell us what he said. How are we supposed to come to an informed opinion when the fundamental context is missing? "Comedian says a bad word" is not sufficient.
Glad that the candidate has time for identity politics revolving around a comedian on TV. That's a great use of his time.
I do not have a nuanced response to this episode. Yang should be praised for a moderate response. Yang should stop using Asian tropes (eg; Doctors, Math). Gillis should cut out the use of the name calling. He should be fired ... he likely won't engage in this unacceptable behavior again. It is a hard lesson, but, in my view, it is impossible to imagine he does not know better. And BTW: Not Funny, either.
1
Yang is setting a valuable example. Politically correctness had its good intentions, but it has become a veil that does not encourage discourse. There is no discourse in bitter battles between groups or peoples. Forgiveness is not weakness, it is a show of power or strength.
19
If one takes the time to investigate Andrew Yang through watching his interviews and interactions with people across the political spectrum and hearing him talk about his ideas that are centered around putting humanity first instead of "the bottom line" in all policy decisions, it becomes clear that this is a rare opportunity for potentially electing a leader with extraordinarily balanced qualities of both heart and mind who is capable of healing the deep divide that keeps us from working together to solve the numerous challenges we are faced with in this time.
59
This man has great ideas! Time for the media to give him light! Let's start getting the smart people with new ideas a chance. This will revitalize democracy.
117
"We would benefit from being more forgiving rather than punitive. We are all human.”
Very true, and very difficult, as there seem to be so many pressures today against being either. The old newspaper adage of "if it bleeds, it leads" has metastasized in the context of electonic media to the fact that cuts generate clicks. if something makes us bleed, if a news item generates outrage, then we click on it and share it and engage all too readily in the storm of social media knives.
As a biracial Korean-American, I have had to learn how to resolve my own experiences as both hated and hater. I find Gillis' remarks hurtful, and Yang's inversion of Asian American stereotypes unfunny. But I'm willing to recognize that Gillis is human and that Yang's humor may be useful in defusing the terrible schism that divides us so bitterly today. It is tiresome to be the one who has to keep proffering olive branches in response to callous ignorance and disregard, but the very fact we are having this conversation now in the context of a serious Asian American presidential candidacy is remarkably hopeful.
Yang's response to Gillis recalls some lines from the Tao Te Ching:
Treat well those who are good,
Also treat well those who are not good;
thus is goodness attained.
Be sincere to those who are sincere,
Also be sincere to those who are insincere;
thus is sincerity attained.
If we are to find a path forward, it can only be together. United we stand. Divided, we fall.
107
The political left has lost its sense of humor, and I wouldn't be surprised if that explains the Democrats' underachieving in recent years.
We've all heard pundits asking how Republican voters stay so angry all the time, and wondering if maintaining that emotional state is bad for their mental health. What does a steady diet of lies and anger from right-wing media -DO- to a person?
We might ask the same question about maintaining a constant state of vigilance for an ever-growing list of slights (themselves of ever-diminishing importance and tangible harm). What is the toll of this ideological humorlessness?
What is that doing to the minds of well-meaning progressive people?
I'm not saying that Shane Gillis's jokes, if you call them that, were funny. But to use a different example, lots of people in the audience (and at home) laughed at Dave Chapelle's and Kkevin Hart's supposedly harmful material. Are progressives going to take it upon themselves to shame the audience? This won't be helpful. Nobody likes, or wants to be led by, humorless scolds.
Andrew Yang gets this; unfortunately for him, the scolds are taking aver the party.
74
@Patrick, being a good comedian, or just being a good person generally, is largely about being a good communicator. That being said, there is a fine line between taking a humorous jab at stereotypes (e.g., Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle) and just being mean/vindictive and advocating violence (e.g., Kevin Hart, Tracey Morgan). But the bottom line is that it has to be funny. Shane Gillis was both mean/vindictive as well as unfunny, which makes him both a terrible comedian as well as a deplorable human being. It is actually rather insulting to cite Chappelle and Gillis in the same breath. It goes without saying that SNL deflected a bullet here. If the controversy wasn't bad enough, Gillis's lack of comedic talent would have sunk SNL.
5
@Patrick Gillis
He wasn't fired by democrats...he was fired by capitalism ...the suits...at NBC. Being racist--whether a comedian or not--is apparently bad for the bottom line. I'm quite certain that consumers are both democrat and republican. He was let go because of the bottom line. You're also implying that republicans don't mind racial slurs at all because they're inherently funny. They're not. Being humorless...or being racist for that matter...is not really what matters to the suits. It's the money.
8
@Patrick
Shane thought it cute to diss others unlike him. It wasn't funny anymore. He should find another profession or run as a Republican for public office.
The left will help re-elect Trump. Americans need stability and reassurance. We need to give them centrist progressive candidates like Yang and Mayor Pete.
Today, Warren received the endorsement of the Working Peoples Party. She was ecstatic. When they endorsed Bernie in 2016 he sent an email to his New York supporters urging them to vote for Hillary Clinton on the Working Families (People's) Party line on their ballots. In the same email, he described WFP as “the closest thing there is to a political party that believes in my vision of democratic socialism.”
Warren is now excited about identifying publicly as a Democratic Socialist like Bernie.
This is meat for Trump.
1
Thank-you Mr Yang. The SNL higher ups who fired Gillis are, like so many corporate leaders and others, hypocritical cowards. They don’t care about offensive language—SNL has been on the air for 40+ years precisely because they offend in a comic way. They care about the bottom line and are afraid that if they don’t impose capital punishment on even the slightest use of “offensive” language, they will be financially impacted. The fact is that people are pretty tough and resilient. Sticks and stones will break our bones, but names and other offensive language rarely hurts us. And the threat to free speech—not to mention the kind of hilarious humor that SNL not only thrives on but in part created, is far worse than the slight offense reasonable people might take. So thank-you Mr Yang.
38
@ehillesum have you considered that Lorne Michaels might take a tiny bit of personal offence at all the anti Semitic remarks made by the unfunny Mr. Gillis?
1
@HKexpat. Lorne Michaels has probably offended more people and groups of people in the last 40 years than any other living human being. Heck—in 1976 or 1977 he was already showing those classic (and no doubt offensive to thin skinned 21st Century folk) episodes set in a diner with Belushi and Akroyd. Remember “cheeps”? Or the Belushi samurai warrior skit? And that was just the beginning. Terrible, Lorne! And you terminate Gillis?
Lots of nuanced points here, but I believe Yang. He’s not forgiving this guy for votes. He genuinely wants to talk to him and he should. We should all be talking and listening to each other. We are too cynical and self-righteous. An aside: Richard Pryor would be jobless were his career to start today. And how many of us had laughed at his jokes? We should call folks out, but context is always needed. That said....glad the intragroup conflict is seen more than ever. When everyone gets a glimpse of how much “minorities” fight amongst themselves, than the monolithic view of one group or another will fade a bit. The Irish became “white” and even they become drunken Catholics if someone wants to hit below the belt.
48
@milagro "Richard Pryor would be jobless were his career to start today. " So true. And throw in George Carlin and Sacha Baron Cohen.
2
To forgive is divine.
23
@James S. Katakowski
Well, there are limits. I will never forgive those who brought us the current criminal in the White House.
3
They may induce a chuckle or two, but I'm not sure that Mr. Yang's constant employment of Asian stereotypes is very helpful to the community as a whole. (For instance, at the most recent debate he said that because he is Asian he knows a lot of doctors. One of his key talking points is that because he is Asian and good at math he is quite different from trump.)
Outsiders are not necessarily going to understand that he is making light of those stereotypes or that they are not universally applicable, and may use his reinforcement to suggest that they are accurate and indeed acceptable.
11
@CP I agree he should drop some jokes, but he never said he's good at math because he's Asian. His tagline is he's an Asian man who likes math. Not the same. He should be able to say what he likes without worrying about stereotypes.
1
@CP
The man has a sense of humor and is thick skinned. Those are good things.
1
I certainly don't agree with Shane Gillis, but I commend Andrew Yang for the way he is handling the situation. Unfortunately, a lot of comedy these days is "cheap shots" & expletives. I also agree with Mr. Yang when he says "I prefer comedy that makes people think." Maybe SNL will replace Mr. Gillis with someone who can raise the bar a bit. I hope Gillis & Yang do sit down for a chat. If Gillis has a conscience at all, he'll probably be squirming in his seat.
27
Amazing. Would Lenny Bruce have survived in today's environment? Gillis is no Bruce, not by a long shot. But the question is still valid and troubling. BTW, SNL had lost its touch years ago. It simply isn't entertaining anymore.
19
@Mike I suspect you haven't watched any SNL recently. You are correct that there was a long slump, but the current cast is outstanding.
@Mike
I thought the same- Could Eddie Murphy [today] do his famous routine about "Mr. T" ???
-- NO WAY! I don't think we're allowed to talk about that routine.
@Mike, yes, Lenny Bruce would have survived because the man was intelligent, insightful, talented and his humor was never borne out of seething hate for minorities.
2
The 1st Amendment allows bigotry.
But the 1st Amendment has no power in the private sector sphere. It only limits government limitations and restrictions on speech.
You don't have a 1st Amendment right to a private job.
Moreover forgiveness typically comes only after an apology and a request for forgiveness. This ex- SNL alum did neither.
16
@Blackmamba
Kevin Hart neither apologized or request forgiveness.
He was fired for making a gay joke. THEY wouldn't let him present the Oscars.
Who's side are you on?
@JoeG WRONG! Kevin Hart did sincerely apologize. What he refused to do was grovel. There’s a big difference.
Speaking as an Asian-American myself, all I can say is "go Yang." He sounds a lot more like the Asian-American community that the blogs and special interest groups that the article cites - Jenn Fang is no more the voice of Asian-Americans than the Heritage Foundation is the voice of Americans in general; they are a special interest group specifically created to represent the small segment of the community that believes we need advocacy groups.
I, and most in my community, recognize the self-depreciating humor (and humor in general) that Yang shows. In my family, we joke about not being able to drive and deliberately confusing people with Japanese, Chinese and Korean heritage for each other. My parents jokingly warned us against eating rice because it would "slant our eyes" ("looks what it's done to me!"), and my mother would jokingly wish my grandmother a 'happy Pearl Harbor day' each year.
The people who wallow in identity politics and disarm free speech and humor in the interests of playing games with 'being offended,' creating unspoken hierarchies about which ethnic groups win the offense game against which other ethnic groups - those people do NOT speak for me, for the Asian-American community in general, or the center-left in general.
While others compete to tell centrists why they shouldn't vote Democratic, Andrew Yang may just save us on the left from the worst that we can be - if we can stop being 'offended' for him long to listen.
114
@Austin
I wish I could give this comment multiple 'recommends'!
I'm a life long Republican but I am keeping a very close eye on Mr. Yang. I don't see his face twisted in angry comments, he doesn't shout (are you listening Bernie?!) and he offers thoughtful ideas that are articulated with ease.
As to Mr. Yang's humor...I once asked a friend from Kentucky why we southerners were so quick to use self-depreciating humor. His reply has stayed with me through the years. "Why honey", he drawled, "it's so we can beat everyone else to the punchline!"
9
Well said. Took the thoughts in my head and articulated them for the readers of the NYT.
9
@Austin
As a biracial, Asian American: My sentiments exactly!
I remember spending a summer studying Japanese at UCLA, as a teenager in the 1980’s, so I could better communicate with my extended family in Japan. At first, I was shocked at the scathing racial quips and caricatures scribbled all over UCLA men’s room stalls until, upon closer inspection, it became apparent that this graffiti was a brand of self-deprecating humor emanating exclusively from the Asian American student body, themselves.
But Yang has my vote because he has internalized the lessons of Dr. King—both with regard to economic inequality (both support UBI), as with his bridge-building orientation toward racial division.
And, most of all, because he would clearly mop the floor with Trump. With the other candidates, it’s a roll of the dice, but Yang has demonstrable bipartisan appeal because he is talking about the underlying economic issues behind populist outrage—as opposed to Trump’s scapegoating of immigrants. #LetYangSpeak (for more than a soundbite).
8
There are real problems in the world. Would be nice to have someone in charge who didn’t elevate a comedian’s jokes into that category. Someone not really interested in punching, either high, nor low, but interested in working for our American humanity.
Yang is like a breath of fresh air.
55
Some observations.
Give Andrew Yang a break for his attempts at self-deprecating humor.
The comedy and comedians on SNL engage in self-deprecating, self-stereotyping, racial humor all the time.
Most comedians do it these days and it's been done historically by comedians of various races and nationalities forever.
From Richard Pryor to Chris Rock, from Margaret Cho to Kumail Nanjiani.
Comedians make fun of themselves and their ethnic / racial backgrounds.
That's a given. Yang is trying his hand at that on the campaign. Relax everyone.
Shane Gillis forgot to keep his stereotyping to his own background. Crossing over is risky, as he put it, but it can be done if one has established a humane persona, not a hurtful one. Comics can cross over and people accept it if done well and with care.
I'll take a listen to his material but I doubt I'll be attracted to it. Doesn't sound too clever.
And, sorry, but anyone accepted onto SNL is suspect in my book anyway.
The majority of sketches on that show are flat out bad compared to the many comedy shows throughout the television age.
From Sid Caesar to Carol Burnett to Laugh In to the first years of SNL to SCTV to In Living Color.
Get on YouTube for these and see what well conceived comedy looks like.
15
I do not particularly like stand-up comedy or SNL, but somehow ended up watching one of the offensive clips. One thing I noticed that literally no one has mentioned is that it was clear, in at least the portion of the Chinatown skit I heard, Gillis was “channeling a racist character.” His voice changed and he said, “Let the blank-blank live there,” as a racist character. So the dynamic was he said a racist word in character, which happens all the time. Whether the other uses were similar, I don’t know. I do know that if you look back at the last 30 years of stand up comedy, you are likely to see it over and over. There are very prominent comedians working now — media darlings — who I can think of of the top of my head who have said far, far more directly offensive racial jokes. And I don’t even watch stand up comedy.
So maybe Yang is just, you know...fair and sane.
26
I'm impressed with Mr. Yang. He is interested in discussion and mutual understanding, not vindictiveness. Americans are so wrapped up in getting even, settling scores and bearing grudges that they no longer have any understanding that there are other ways to deal with disagreement. Twitter is overflowing with people out for revenge. It's sickening. Good for Mr. Yang for seeking a different way. Our culture would be better off if we all did.
33
Just gotta a like this guy! His spontaneity, humor and now this wonderful example of forgiveness. My daughter-in-law is Chinese, so I am sensitive to racial slurs. They are unforgivable, BUT I think the person that made them can be forgiven. I gave Andrew Yang a very small donation not necessarily because I want him to be president but because I would like to have his views on stage as long as possible and I like the MATH hat.
32
Kudos to Yang for initiating a true dialogue about racism, which this country desperately needs.
20
@Blue Femme Wow! Andrew Yang having a sit down with a racist comedian is “initiating a true dialogue on racism” in your opinion. I guess Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers, John Lewis, Barbara Jordan, and others were just keeping Andrew Yang’s seat warm.
Soon Mr. Yang will walk on water, multiply the fish, cure cancer, and perform a host of miracles!
Perfect reaction of a mature, educated and wise man. I've watched all three rounds of debate so far and have watched hours of Yang on YouTube. He's so refreshing in speaking the corporate language with the necessary credibility it entails with the heart a good leader needs to have. America and the West may not be ready for an Asian president but he has certainly represented Asians brilliantly.
20
Poor Andrew Yang! He just doesn't understand where he places in the Democrats' "I'm more oppressed than you" Olympics.
We should all just declare ourselves to be disabled binary trans AfricanAmericans and be done with the slicing and dicing.
21
Brilliantly said. If only folks understood that victimhood is a ineffectual way to live, and it is very unkind of us to offer it to others.
3
@Barooby
Sounds like Andrew Yang took a much higher road than you here.
3
Anyone defending Gillis needs to watch the video. It's not funny, just racist. Dialogue and understanding is good, but there also need to be consequences. This video is less than a year old and he absolutely deserved to be fired from SNL.
8
@Matthew Ratzloff I think we have the best possible outcome right now, honestly. He was fired and he will still be meeting with Yang, according to Yang's tweet. I'm interested to see the outcome.
Mr. Yang as an aspiring candidate ought to have known his comments would have led to SNL firing Gillis. His post-hoc call for forgiveness rings a bit insincere. I agree Gillis is a jerk, but SNL routinely offends people for their politics, and I for one find the prospect of bribing voters as offensive - can I fire Mr. Yang?
2
@LTJ have you read his comments? He said he didn't think Gillis should get fired (beforehand, not after the firing), what do you suggest he do instead?
It's not boundary pushing, risky, or edgy to use racist or homophobic slurs to punch down. It's upholding the status quo, which the exact opposite of those things. It's also boring, lazy comedy. Yang is free to preach forgiveness, but SNL made the right call here.
18
SNL has become so vulgar and cheap I rarly watch it. Mr.Yang comes across as classy man, like I was brought up to be, amidst a crass culture. More power to him for that. I wish him well, and look forward to him in the next debate.
16
Mr. Yang actively engages those who have different views and he tries to work things out calmly and rationally. As of now, he has my vote. I don't want to vote for a personality, I want an objective administrator who works on the hard problems with people who disagree with him. We need that in order to make progress on climate change, health care and fair taxation.
78
Bigotry gains you nothing but can cost you dearly. Same with misogyny. There's a lot of comedians out there who have paid big for their bigotry.
One of our most successful standups, Rodney Dangerfield, aimed all his barbs at himself or at his wife, with her permission I'm sure.
Comedy directed downward is rarely funny.
14
@Lee Elliott "One of our most successful standups, Rodney Dangerfield, aimed all his barbs at himself or at his wife, with her permission I'm sure." I'm not sure you saw the same Rodney I did. He could be quite insulting to his audience.
1
@Lee Elliott
Don Rickles, Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Jackie Mason, Groucho Marx, Joan Rivers, and countless others would disagree...
Insult/shock comedy is appreciated by our lizard brain, and no amount of holier-than-thou hand-wringing will change that fact.
Bigotry gains you nothing but can cost you dearly? Where were you during the 16 election?
SNL firing Shane Gillis was the right thing to do. The network shouldn't provide a forum for anyone to spread racism and homophobia and hatred to millions of people.
All News Networks should stop repeatedly broadcasting Trump's hate, white supremacy, and xenophobia. They may do it to criticize Trump, but the networks are actually serving Trump's purpose. Stop giving them the free tool to spread hate to tens of millions people at once.
70
Yang: Mature.
Gillis: Immature.
I hope they meet. I hope it is an enlightening experience for them both.
45
I am Asian American. This is going to convince me to vote for Mr. Yang.
More forgiving, less punitive, AMEN!
120
@S.A.S.S. Architect. Yes. As will many of my Hispanic relatives for the reason you mention.
11
I agree. Though I’m not Asian-American (I’m your basic lily-white Baby Boomer) and I have mixed feelings about Yang’s central campaign promise (his “freedom dividend” sounds plenty costly) his impulse to forgive Gillis, and not excoriate him, impresses me deeply. Forgiveness is a rare commodity these days ... especially when extended by presidents or presidential candidates.
The quality of mercy is not strained. It falleth as the gentle rain upon the place beneath.
9
You could read his reaction as a calculated political move to fuel his white house ambitions. May I suggest another possibility? Perhaps he just means what he says. “Cancel culture” and stoning by Twitter may be a popular pastime as the mob looks for its daily villain to destroy but Mr. Yang is professing engagement, discussion, and above all humanity to bring us together. Now which is the opposite of Trump? The former or the latter?
94
I am not tolerant of racism, but I do like to believe people can learn and change. I applaud Andrew Yang for trying to contribute to that process. I do, however understand why SNL fired Shane Gillis. His racist comments weren’t behind closed doors. Rather, he used his public visibility and fame (if we can call it that) to promote racist ideas. I don’t currently trust this man to be in the public spotlight, at least not for the moment. Let’s save our airwaves for people who are not furthering our racial divide.
28
@MG. The problem it is that media, left and right, are dividing us every day. The irony is that Mr Gillis’ career is being given a possibly fatal blow by the very media pundits who thrive financially by dividing us into warring camps.
Nice to see Mr. Yang being an adult in this situation, and not just overreacting with the “bloggers.” Gillis surely went too far, but he doesn’t need to be burned at the stake.
Rather than sitting behind a screen and fuming about other people’s imperfections, the bloggers should look at themselves and see how they would feel about being relentlessly attacked regardless of the severity of their mistakes.
33
I consider myself a conservative liberal (meaning, dead center on the spectrum), and some days I'm just completely flummoxed by the left. They have made so much of this world so PC that no one can joke or say anything negative about anyone or anything without offending someone.
Was Gillis wrong for the jokes he made? Absolutely. Does he deserve to get fired for making them? Absolutely not. All of this "woke" attitude of today is ridiculous.
Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Eddie Murphy and many others would have been destroyed because of the things they used in their routines.
I respect Yang "bigly" for his attitude and for using common sense, which is sorely lacking the world today.
Sometimes, a joke is actually just a joke.
50
@Bret I agree to an extent. Where I disagree is that Pryor, Carlin, and Murphy were never punching down and so probably still wouldn't be destroyed.
@Paul
Good point. Also, they were as much about self-deprecation as anything else. What Gillis said wasn't even remotely funny either.
The whole argument though, is that this country has become ridiculous about being offended. In fact, some people are probably offended because I called them out for being offended. It's become ludicrous.
3
Cancel Culture is running amok.
I’m not Chinese, I don’t use that word, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with people using that word, but is there an island all the cancelled people are sent who no longer can work because of their unforgivable sins?
17
Wow. A thoughtful reply to a comedian who has made a career out of cheap tricks, and a society which can only react rather than interact. His invitation to Mr. Gillis to sit down and talk is far more effect than knee-jerk firings or the public shaming and bullying so beloved of Mr. Trump and his party. sadly, that technique has now become acceptable throughout.
For his dignified, thoughtful and sensible response to the situation, Mr. Yang is being vilified. We recently had a president who is not white. Who is dignified, gracious, diplomatic and intelligent. Who was brave enough to put in place policies, that while far from perfect, did some good.
Racism in all forms should be condemned and not tolerated But, please, more dialog, less reaction. That approach will go a lot farther to reducing racism than reactions.
59
@elise, perhaps we should have all been more understanding of Harvey Weinstein and tried to understand his "illness" rather than turning him into a social pariah. You know... more dialog (sic), less reaction.
It is funny how the conflation of politics and media likes to sensationalize what is not and complicate what is simple...
I find Andrew Yang's response to Gillis' case commendable: He did not galvanize the sensitive case (of racism and bias he seems to face from the mainstream media, he could-but he didn't) into a victim-minority corner. Instead, he approached the scenario from the factual point: he responded after watching Gillis' skit with his wife and stated what he thought he saw. So, that speaks volumes for his character, right?
Yang is basically a kind of 'underdog' ignored by the m. media. Yang's debates about how artificial intelligence will impact society are real and the public can relate to this. But the mainstream media uncannily promotes Harris, Biden, Sanders even though Harris (seems pretentious, Biden and Sanders-- sorry, but they are really too old). After years of racial drips from Trump's rhetorics to divide, something has changed in America. Currently, Yang appears to be the kind substantial enough to take on Trump. The only throbbing point is that he is Asian, albeit American, he's still Asian. His nomination (democrat) means the deconstruction of the Democrats. Is the Democratic party ready for this?
21
@Vivian Spot on analysis.
The biggest obstacle on Yang's way to White House is the Democratic Party, not Trump.
10
Yang is principled and moving up in the public consciousness.
He would make a great president.
I am supporting Mayor Pete but I also would vote for others who are centrist progressives like Yang if nominated.
33
Andrew Yang has already shown more presidential leadership than Trump, and most of the Democratic contenders, have. I'm going to donate to him again, just to preserve his presence at the debates.
47
Andrew Yang has solidified my vote for him by showing he can think for himself instead of kowtowing to party mantras, and giving in to a destructive outrage culture that has taken over the Democratic Party.
44
@Stefan Outrage is not required. This is not a situation that a presidential candidate must comment on. He just disqualified himself by supporting this guy.
1
@casablues
I think Yang made it clear that he was not a fan of Mr. Gillis’ comedy.
1
@casablues he was personally attacked so I believe he has every right to weigh in
1
I don’t know if Andrew Yang can get enough traction to get the nomination, but as of now he has my vote. He’s thoughtful, modest, and yet bold in advancing ideas about how we might move forward as a nation. I hope we’re good enough as a nation to advance a candidate like this.
50
Andrew Yang said he thought we should strive to be more forgiving and less punitive.
Wow.
We don’t get to see too many examples of someone behaving with such pure class, and I use the word “class” in the very best sense of the word.
When you actually get to see the real deal, you realize what a truly beautiful thing it is, and what a shame it is not to see more of it.
Unfortunately we are collectively a very crass culture.
And I really fear that we’re going to get worse, because of the dominant values in our country.
But at least Mr. Yang points in the right direction of what we could actually aspire to.
Thank you.
600
@Annie Gramson Hill— Indeed a very crass culture. Kudos to Mr. Yang.
38
No nationality was excluded from entering the US except the Chinese under the Chinese Exclusionary Act of 1882,not even under Trump.
No nationality was forced into concentration camps in the US simply because of their nationality except the Japanese, including American citizens of Japanese descent, not even under Trump.
Racism against Asians in this country was never innocuous, was always virulent and had devastating and long term effects on Chinese and Japanese Americans.
To shrug it off, as Mr. Yang does, under the misguided perception that Asians don't really suffer from racism in this country to the extent that blacks and native Americans do (which of course is the case because Asians were never enslaved or killed by genocide), is to ignore the history of the invidious effects of racism against Asians, that begins with calling Asians by derogatory terms and ends in exclusion or concentration camps.
21
@Ego But he never said Asians don't suffer from racism as much as blacks, he said that racism amongst Asians in the US is somehow more acceptable.
10
@Ego that is pretty much the opposite of what Mr. Yang said.
1
@EM, yes, and Yang cowtowing to white America even further promotes the notion that anti-Asian epithets are naughty but ultimately acceptable. Yang really needs to reflect on the harm caused by his statements.
1
As an Asian I have laughed at jokes about Asians because they were funny and on point. But hate is not humor or funny. There is a very clear line our society has drawn between the two and Shane Gillis clearly crossed it. He has been openly racist, anti semetic and homophobic, and I, like many, doubt he was just kidding. We can't support or ignore racism, not in politics, not in real life and not in arts, entertainment and media. NBC and SNL did the right thing.
149
@Una
I happen to disagree with most of your comment but I want to focus on one of your points upon which some of your other ideas hang. There is not a "very clear line" between hate and humor in our society. The line is blurry, warped, uneven and always changing.
Shane Gillis is a clear example of this. He was HIRED by Saturday Night Live. Do you think that they hired him him for one of the most coveted jobs in comedy without having heard his comedy? They had to know the type of humor he trades in and they hired him anyway. Then they got push back and what did they do? They moved the line.
Is Gillis the only example? No. Kevin Hart getting fired by the Oscars. The list goes on.
The line is moving all the time. The rules are changing. You can make a case that this isn't a bad thing. But let's not pretend the rules of this game are perfect and unchanging.
5
Mr. Yang is dealing with the slurs, not funny, in the correct way. To fire Shane Gillis right off strikes me as being not sincere but politically correct. Yang is promoting a dialogue, bringing thought to the issue. That's how it's transformed.
161
@annpatricia23, Shane Gillis had the better part of a week to apologize and to somehow spin his way out of this situation. Instead, he doubled down and really showed us the ignoramus that he is. You can't hold a dialogue with someone who can't remove the foot from his own mouth.
9
Gillis deserved to be fired and Yang deserves the right and respect to deal with Gillis's racist slurs about him however he chooses. I have been greatly impressed with Yang and am even more so now. Gillis? No thanks. Plenty of great comedians out there. I don't need to waste my time on racists trying to pass off their racism as "just jokes."
3
Andrew Yang is a fake notwithstanding his attempt to take the high road in not taking Shane Gillis to task for his racial slurs.
His $12,000-per-year sweepstakes for 10 lucky families is gimmicky: à la manière de Trump. The press is right to call it out as such.
Had Andrew Yang offered it to 1,000 families, the press would have no right to call it gimmicky. They also can’t ignore it. Not only will social scientists be clamouring for it, the people would be clamouring for it. Social scientists would be clamouring for such a social experiment because a 1,000 data-points will offer an incredible opportunity to study the effects of welfarism.
He could challenge America to raise that amount of money for these 1,000 families by contributing directly to a special 1,000 Families Fund. If more than $12 million is raised then the extra donations would go directly to even more people who would benefit from it.
He could recuse himself from the Special 1,000 Fund to make a subtle point of how he differs from the corrupt Trump regime. In short, he will be letting his actions do the talking.
If insufficient money is raised and he topped it up with his own money, then he is putting his money where his mouth is.
His official motto could be: “America! We Care!”
Like it or not, this offer to 1,000 families will be a referendum on welfarism itself. Is America ready for it?
It would have been the best presidential campaign advertisement he could possibly dream up.
5
@Mountern
Great idea... Buffet and Gates Foundation could certainly fund it.. or a Go Fund Me.. --would be more interesting. How do we chose the lucky 1000. Four per states or by population per state?
Warren/Yang 2020
What a duo! If you listed their ideas, math is like a secret religion, it solves all. Forgiveness, kindness,
are a formula that brings peace to a country divided by hate and led by a fake president.
23
This article illustrates the difficulty with our outrage culture - serious debates over which racial or ethnic or religious minority has suffered more or less or differently from bigotry lead inevitably to further debates over who is the more authentic victim. We then have Asians versus Blacks versus Native Americans versus Jews versus black Africans versus black Americans versus - you get it. Meanwhile, many of the whites who perpetuate the racial stereotyping that gets internalized by every demographic sit back and enjoy the show. Truly - the cynical pleasure Trump and his merry followers enjoy over dustups like the criticism from the left targeting Yang cannot be overstated. “Libs versus libs.” Yang’s response blunts all of that and delivers to the racists exactly what they fear most - forgiveness, acceptance and that most dangerous of all things to a close-minded bigot: a dialogue. Shaming Shane Gillis won’t challenge anyone to expend an ounce of effort to begin a much needed conversation about race; it merely quiets the howling left, until the next outrage, and the next. And after a while, that’s all we hear.
53
@MWR "...begin a much needed conversation about race..." Really? That conversation was held 50 years ago. It's done. It is 2019 and if somebody didn't get the memo that using racial epithets is wrong, it's not due to a lack of conversation. It's about a lack of IQ points!
2
So good to have a candidate who realizes we’re all human
46
My wife is Asian, I'm white, we live in Harlem, NYC. We never, ever hear racial slurs from anyone. It's just not a thing around here. Think about that. I suspect that if we lived anywhere else in the world, at the very least we would have heard at least some racial slurs. The block we live on has two mosques and 2 churches. One block away there is a Hebrew academy. I wonder if the depth of diversity we have around here is the reason why there are no racial incidents. I often think that even America should live on my block for some part of their life. Maybe then some of the racism that so many believe is their god given America right would start to dissipate. Maybe not but I do wish the racists would give tolerance a try and see what it is really like.
76
Andrew is looking more and more like a good choice. Automation does pose an enormous economic problem that other candidates are unwilling to take seriously. Others prefer to push buttons and rile people up over class and "race" (a fiction) instead of addressing structural economic change head on. Pushing buttons gets attention and stirs up anger, and divides the country. The president should be above petty, divisive hang-ups and focus on those large, structural issues most people prefer to avoid; that's the idea behind representation. Andrew is looking more and more like a good choice.
75
I’m Asian American and listened to Shane Gillis’s comments about Asians and find them deeply offensive. At the same time, I am tired of this culture of outrage and agree with Andrew Yang that we could all be a little more forgiving.
I don’t feel like I’m going to make a good comment because I see things both ways: I totally understand why SNL fired Gillis. He really seems to be racist against Asians and have zero sympathy or understanding of how so many of us who were born and raised here are treated as foreigners in our own country. It’s beyond exasperating, especially since, as Andrew Yang notes, it’s still the most acceptable or invisible form of racism.
On the other hand, I agree with Andrew Yang that we are all human. We all make mistakes. In some sense, Gillis was acting out of ignorance, and maybe we if he talked with a bunch of Asian Americans about their experiences, he would understand why those “jokes” he made aren’t funny and why he should have made an actual apology instead of a non-apology apology.
In general, right now, our society — because of the internet and its tendency toward being an outrage machine — is in maximum judgment mode and minimum empathy mode. I hope that the big tech platforms figure out a way to foster more of a culture of understanding and common humanity rather than judgment and outrage because it’s tearing us all apart.
248
@L I don’t equate this with the culture of outrage. To me, this is about human decency, and civility. Kudos to SNL for drawing a line. We all should. At ne point, enough is enough, and “pushing the boundaries” as Gillis states, is no excuse, it’s nothing more than a cheap cop out.
14
@L Good point. I've long wished that cars had an "excuse me" noise instead of just a horn, and on the internet, sometimes you don't want to "like" something with which you agree, but it's sad or some other emotion unsuitable to a smiley face or thumbs up. Wouldn't it be great to have a shorthand way to show empathy or solidarity, to express love or forgiveness? Wouldn't it be great if our first impulse became a kind hand across the divide?
3
@L I am weary of the narrative that racists are somehow sad victims of something or other and we all need to have empathy for them. Racism is corrosive. It is a lack of empathy on the racist's part: they can't conceive that a person of another race is as human as they are. Calling it out and making the consequences of racism painful and public will make it clear that it's not acceptable, ever. Maybe this generation will be "hidden" racists, but the next will benefit from not being exposed to that toxicity.
9
I think stereotyping is hard to avoid. Even peoples who are stereotyped, will in fact stereotype others.
Where I draw the line is racial epithets and criminal behavior to identify an ethnic group.
13
Yang has used his race to get a laugh at least a few times in the debates. “I’m the opposite of Trump, an Asian who loves math.”
“I’m Asian so I know a lot of doctors.”
Why doesn’t Yang see any backlash?
I’m not justifying The comedians behavior, but I think this is a little overblown.
I like that yang sees past this fake outrage.
22
@John Cavendish:
Maybe it's not fake. Maybe some of us have gotten tired of putting up with "little" or "misunderstood" insulting behavior. Day after day of these micro-insults. Like compound interest, it adds up.
I commend Mr. Yang for his compassionate reaction. Mr. Gillis could learn a thing or two.
22
@John Cavendish Probably because what Yang said is actually funny.
13
@John Cavendish
He has seen a backlash. It's mentioned in the article.
1
Bland or stymied, the challenge is being funny without being cheap. While some may think of comedy as a critical presence, comedy has also been a place where people can indulge in power. What is the value of critique that is leveled at a population who is already less empowered? Richard Pryor poking fun at white people who, quite literally, held every professional string upon which his success relied is significantly different from Gillis slurring Asians who have no influence on his career. (Remember, it wasn't "the Asians," who denied Gillis his spot on the white founded, white run SNL.) Same with Lenny Bruce, who was critiquing an oppressive society. Bruce and Pryor were critiquing up. Gillis is pushing down. Gillis isn't being oppressed by Asian Americans. He's taking cheap shots for cheap laughs. He isn't at the "fringes," or being a "hero." He's just another complacent centrist taking shots at people because he thinks he can get away with it. And when he gets dinged, a whole lot of other complacent dudes start waving their indignant flags. Gillis is not a hero, or a martyr, or edgy, or on the fringes, or even a legitimate critic. He is an opportunist who went down a dumb road and got called out. Next.
45
@Carla Way Very well said. I personally have no problem with very offensive comedy but as long as it is a critique of power or social mores and is not punching down.
2
@Carla Way, You hit the nail on the head better than 100s of other comments. Cue applause.
3
I’m sure SNL will premiere and they will do caricatures and make fun of middle American right wingers and republicans and others.
Which don’t get me wrong, I totally enjoy.
But yeah, I do realize the amazing hypocrisy here.
It’s ok for SNL to offend the people they are ok with offending.
28
@Jane There is an important moral distinction between mocking someone for their conduct and their views, over which they have control and for which they are responsible, and mocking someone for their ethnicity, over which they have no control.
24
@Jane
People choose to be right wingers and Republicans and thus are fair game for ridicule and satire.
One doesn't choose to be Asian.
No hypocrisy here.
8
@Jane
Please also keep in mind that there's a big difference between punching up and punching down.
2
Anyone else remember when Sarah Silverman did a bit using the same ethnic slur? I guess the difference is she is actually talented.
2
The thing is, this country as a whole, the readers of the Time in particular, have tolerated racism against Asians for a long time.
What Gilis said may sound reprehensible, it is actually less offensive than the the kind of mindlessly spontaneous racism often seen in the Times comment section. Let me give you an example.
When the Times was reporting that Harvard was sued for unfair admission criteria against Asians. The most comments I've read here, implicitly or explicitly suggest that Asian kids are nothing but test-taking machines who don't have innovative ideas, cannot socialize, not fun, and are selfish to sue Harvard, while entirely ignoring the fact that many of these kids are simply hardworking, well prepared, with a supportive albeit poor family.
That is the tacit racism at its worst. And it rarely raises outrage here.
166
@Avi, to your point, racism against Asian Americans is so ubiquitous and omnipresent that we are numbed to it. It is even less insidious than the NY Times comments section. Just looking around at the media - print, television, entertainment, etc., Asians, in the rare instances they are even shown, are portrayed as fringe/marginal/mute images that merely serve as background scenery for the white or black central characters. One of these days, a hunched over Asian person will be used as a coffee table and hardly anyone would notice. The invisibility of Asians in America, which has enabled the virulent racism exhibited by Gillis, is never ending.
4
@Avi Yes! Every single time. That is the whole point of the discrimination suit - that students who ace tests must be robot test takers with no personality. Guess who gets lumped into that category? People don't realize that it is possible for someone to be great at tests and other things in life too. It's terrible that people don't see it as discrimination.
3
I am pleased that Andrew Yang chose the high road instead of joining the mob. I understand that many jokes can be hurtful, but at some level, that is what comedy is about. We are very quick to draw a line in the sand and pile on any comedian who crosses that line.
32
@chickenlover
There is a difference between cheapshots, schoolyard bullying, and jokes. His "jokes" do not even qualify as the lowest form of comedy.
13
I think it's fine that Mr. Yang urges forgiveness. The target of racism has a right to react the way that s/he feels is best. That doesn't mean that Mr. Gillis gets a free pass. We need to call out racism - especially when it's as blatant as this (and really, his comments are juvenile and so unoriginal - did people think that was funny?). Forgiving someone doesn't mean they shouldn't pay a price. It seems like Mr. Gillis got what he deserved and Mr. Yang did what was right.
27
How about we leave it up to Andrew Yang to decide whether and how he chooses to be offended.
As for Gillis: more evidence that comedy hasn't been funny for decades.
60
I voted Republican all my life. I’m turned off by Trump. Yang is willing to reach across to the other side and talk. I want a president who will bring Republicans and Democrats together to get things done. I’m more and more impressed by him.
296
What? The voice of reason?
Mr. Yang is to be commended for his thoughtful and reasonable response. Mob-mediated reactions are the last thing we need. He has my full support. Please, everyone, let us take a deep breath and have cooler, less reactive heads prevail.
130
@Factumpactum, yes exactly. And then, let’s fire Gillis.
4
Yang’s reasonable response to offer dialogue and forgiveness should be praised as rational civilized behavior. The fact that the mob wasn’t satiated this time by the sacrifice of someone’s livelihood is testament to the poisoned politics of the day.
I’m sick of these self-serving, morality fascists that hide behind their “victim hood” to gain power.
331
@Seamus, No one’s livelihood has been sacrificed. he’ll just be doing it somewhere else. Happens all the time.
10
@Luc,
Yeah, because it's so simple to make a living in the entertainment industry. It's not like your career hinges on your reputation or anything, all you have to do is show up and be industrious. Happens all the time.
1
@Seamus
PREACH!!!
I am white, but have an asian daughter. The things that are said to me, and in front of me about Asians are awful. Sometimes people don't know I have an asian child and other times they do know and say it anyway because they think it's ok because she's adopted.
My daughter has been the victim of racial slurs and stereotypes since kindergarten. Her first grade teacher at a top Los Angeles private school told her in a parent/child meeting, "Way to shatter those racial stereotypes, you are lousy at math!" My daughter is now in high school and this one teacher and her attitude has led to years of low self esteem around math, tutors, testing, crying, and day to day struggles. It planted a toxic seed.
256
@Sheldon WOW. What a toxic remark of that teacher!
I was a teacher, only say WAS because I'm retired; but it's a way of life, not just a career. Gobsmacking. As a child I had those moments around math, many have, but to add that slur when it's bad enough already! I haven't been around Asian stereotyping so this is an eye opener for sure! I hope she has teachers now - math and otherwise - who can mend that wound.
32
@Sheldon
Talk about someone who should have been fired
33
@Sheldon
Thank you for your comment. As I mentioned in another comment, I think many Americans are still blind to racism against Asians. I'm Asian American and I've had white friends make racist jokes to my face and expect me to laugh.
It's like on one level, they know I'm not a foreigner which is why they expect me to laugh, but then on another level, they do have this stereotype that Asians are foreigners, and so they think I'll find the joke funny, not realizing that this is the exact struggle I've had my whole life -- to be considered a foreigner in my own country! I can't even explain how or why they have made such jokes right to my face, except that, as I said, many people are still blind to racism against Asians, and so my own friends who I know love me dearly don't even realize that their "joke" is racist.
43
Every slight, every slur, every misunderstanding, every interaction gets magnified these days to the point of absurdity because of social media.It also has distorted our interactions with each, making villains of people who say stupid things and heroes of those who do ordinary nice things. Maybe because social media is devoid of real human interaction that has made our reactions disproportionate. Gillis’ sin should be dismissed and forgiven, and Yang’s forgiveness is no extraordinary gesture.
31
Bullying has been around way longer than social media. Letting bullies be bullies does not turn out well (e.g. Donald Trump). Outting them and working to rehabilitate, spurring dialogue ... much better. I think Yang is right - perhaps though, he should get beyond stereotyping (his I am Asian, I know doctors remark).
8
@AlNewman, why should Gillis be "forgiven" if he didn't even apologize in the first place?
1
Ever since WW2 I can remember at least a dozen pejorative one word descriptions of people who are different from themselves and therefore somehow "deserve" to be denigrated. I suspect much of it is done so that the bigot can remain part of a group by going along to get along. When you serve in the military or work closely with others who are "different" there seems to be much less of an inclination to slur them.
8
This reminds me of when pundits unfairly held Hilary Clinton to impossibly conflicting standards when discussing her debate approach: “she needs to be smart, but not too smart, strong, but not too strong...” There is something to be said for Andrew Yang trying to genuinely and humanly connect, understand, and help.
128
Mr Yang the only guy that I would get excited about voting for. As far as Mr Gilis, I would hate to be a comic today with the pc police and the outrage mob lurking. People have to stop being so sensitive and laugh at ourselves. It’s gone way to far and is just helping to divide us
36
Yang's response is exactly why his supporters like him so much. He is thoughtful and oriented toward solving problems, not becoming bogged down in social media's call-out culture. There are many who oppose both racism and the way racial issues are often dealt with on social media- by going to extremes and calling for people to be immediately fired and tarred and feathered.
I'd like to see more Times articles detailing the merits of his positions- those positions and the articulateness with which he defends them are why he had a place on the debate stage Thursday night, not b/c he is Asian or b/c of how much outrage he can express.
227
It is an incredible and sad commentary on the current age that Andrew Yang chose high-mindedness, forgiveness, and an offer to meet with this guy in an effort to reconcile and education him...and that people are meeting Yang's conduct with disapproval. It is not Andrew Yang's job to parse out every little way the social media commentariat can intentionally misrepresent him. It is a little distressing that the creator of a supposed Asian-American advocacy blog would, without any evidentiary support, accuse Mr. Yang of tailoring his response to getting white voters. Maybe he's just a decent guy who recognizes that although ignorance often leads to evil, the two are not the same thing. Or maybe he has other motives. But to suggest without any kind of support that Mr. Yang is pandering to voters just because he doesn't say exactly what a blogger wants him to say seems downright odious. I also thought Mr. Yang's admission regarding his initial reaction to the news and his resistance to posting a vulgar response online showed both candor and restraint. It's ironic that he is now being targeted by some online presences with lesser ideals.
I'm no shill for Andrew Yang as a presidential candidate, but he seems like a really good guy, and it's just crazy to me that his response to this situation could be met with anything but applause.
As for Shane Gillis, I certainly won't weep for him, but I hope that some good comes from his conversation with Mr. Yang.
678
@Kevin
I guess he's just not "Asian" enough for some people, whatever that means.
I get outrage at the ugly racist names, but as for the stereotype, which is some variation of "smart and hard-working," I think it is hard for the average white guy to feel the pain of that image. Maybe it's lack of empathy.
4
@Kevin
When Mr. Gillis used those awful slurs he knew they were wrong; he used them to get a laugh at others' expense.
Now his words have caught up with him.
In several Asian religions this is referred to as karma.
11
Andrew yang is a nice guy. it is no surprise he would urge forgiveness...
4
Seems like this was just a business decision for SNL. They had little investment in Shane and there are many qualified comedians with no baggage. They want their cast to be stars on the show, not the show itself. Cut bait and move on.
17
Andrew Yang is authentic. He is hardly at all a politician. Humanity First, and Not Right, Not Left, Forward are not just slogans. He is running for President to effect solutions, not to Be President, except for the leadership role that office provides to address problems. Forgiving, and learning and moving on are natural responses for him. He does not demonize anyone. The Freedom Dividend will help ALL. The Yang Gang welcomes All. Imagine what $1000 a month could do for you. Each of us has a different answer for that and the world will change.
145
Thank you Andrew Yang for your uncommon sense. Forgiveness is divine. Your attitude gives me hope.
457
I'm traveling out of the country so haven't seen the full coverage on this but I'm struggling to understand why Yang, the person insulted here, is having to defend himself?
463
@Steve
Because, this is a first world problem (the perception game) & every action is seen through the lens of identity politics whether the principles want to be involved or not.
32
@Steve Indeed! Comedy and political correctness are not compatible.
10
@Steve The prevailing opinion among Twitter activists is that Yang shouldn't joke lightly about the model minority myth or show any degree of lenience to proven racists, AKA "cancel culture." Also, mentioning anti-black racism within any sort of context of anti-Asian racism is taboo (invariably inviting criticism about "oppression Olympics"), whether or not it was merely intended as an "observation."
19
.......Stymied is the word I would apply....... Comedy has always operated on the fringes. Lenny Bruce. Richard Pryor. Chris Rock. SNL, like Times Square in New York City, has morphed into a parody of itself.......Comedy, like other forms of art, should remain beyond censorship...... I miss the edge of Old school SNL, and I miss the edge of CBGB.........
11
Lennie Bruce was seen by some as a great revolutionary back in the 50s and 60s because he was seen to be (incisively) offensive. He went to jail for it. His comedy has been the template for most later comedians. There was only one problem: people could be offended. Regulating and fine tuning the offense so people are offended but not badly enough to want to take your job or your freedom is clearly a very difficult task. A comic nowadays can go from hero to zero in an instant. Perhaps we'll return to a much blander kind of comedy.
8
I don’t believe in censorship of comedians, even terrible ones, but to compare any comedian today to Lenny Bruce is just not acceptable. No comedian in the world today can match up to his brilliance.
4
@Al from PA Lenny Bruce pushed boundaries, but he pushed them forward and challenged people to think. Shane Gillis is pushing boundaries backward. Big difference. He is no Lenny Bruce.
35
@NW Lenny Bruce was awesome, and his influence cannot be understated, but he was hit or miss in his sets. I think Chappelle matches his brilliance.
1