Surely Trump will come up with a fantasy link to Iran – a la Dorian track.
1
Iran didn't attack us. Let the Saudis respond if they want a military response. We can assist in a defensive posture in the event Iran counter-attacks, but any attack on Iran because of this must be a Saudi attack. I doubt they'll do it, and that will emphasise the free military ride they've had as an ally of the U.S.
16
Goodness, can't even wield a bone saw effectively, but sure can pay off Trump for weapons systems that don't work. Putin is right to laugh at them... and us. Turkey saw the light.
So completely incompetent that they can't determine who destroyed their economic engine. Guess they need another Lawrence of Arabia to prop up their Wahhabist regime of Muslim extremists. Or, another check from the master strategist, Trump.
1
How prescient of godfather! Could it be that godfather is feeding the client on the wording of the statement the client should release? America would then give a collaborating statement. Poor Saudis having a hard time on the learning curve. Poor America for the abysmal quality of (some of it’s) clients.
When the results of the investigation are released, beware of sharpie-drawn lines on the map.
We can't have one federal agency interview our own fellow (local) Americans who witnessed a lewd sexual affront said to have been that of a Supreme Court Justice nominee, but we can get right on the forensics of equipment used to decimate a huge petroleum installation on the other side of Planet Earth owned by a leader responsible for the murder of an American journalist?
Will we EVER return to those news moments when we can read some of this stuff and not exclaim, "WHAT?!"
1
Hmm. Looking for clues at the scene of the crime. . . Anyone remember WMD? Cooked intelligence as an excuse to go to war? Can congress just say 'no'?
Trump claimed the nuclear deal between Obama and Iran was one of the worst deal for the US in mid-east. Now he knows it is a much better deal than what he has now- a no-deal deal under which Iran can do whatever they want. Will he learn from this? The lesson is no. Devoid of self-reflection, remorsefulness and contrition, Trump is incapable of learning from the mistakes in the past, present or future. Because the Weapon of Mass Destruction which started the Iraqi invasion, we have to be vigilant and speculative about the evidence presented by the US or Saudi without corroboration from a third source such as France or the UK.
11
I read that the Saudis were selling the bulk of their oil to China, does anyone know if this is true? Also, if the US is the major oil producer at the present time, this attack/disruption should not be as impactful as it was in the past.
The U.S. has been waging an undeclared war on Iran since 1979. It simply cannot accept an independent Iran capable of self-determination. To that end no effort has been spared.
The U.S. public would be shocked if it found out the billions in "black ops" funding that has gone into destabilizing Iran through assassinations, cyberwarfare, propaganda, sabotage and economic sanctions.
The Iranian government is not run by saints, but when Iran seeks to defend itself against U.S. aggression it would not be surprising if they took some pages from our playbook.
Why do we seem to be the lead respondent to an attack on Saudi oil fields? More importantly why does our President feel the need to issue bellicose responses to something taking place far from our soil. We sell the Saudis billions of dollars of arms every year. Let them handle attacks on their sovereign nation and address the duplicitous policies they pursue that has them in Yemen in the first place. We have no place refereeing Shia and Shiite conflicts especially when we are trying to deescalate our involvement in regional and internecine conflicts.
13
OK - can someone explain why Yemen and Hezbollah, which receive weapons and support from Iran, are "proxies" whereas Israel and Ukraine, which receive weapons and support from the US are "allies"?
The Saudis (US proxies"? have buckets of oil money and buckets of military hardware. Why should the US do anything more than say, "Go get em, tiger!" Remember, we are fracking our earth to death for energy suffiency - we don't need Saudi oil.
I can't imagine any of our allies in Europe jumping in on this fray, except the incredible hulk. And even he would need Parliament to go along.
America is selling specious theories about tracing the path of the trajectory. Even if Iran did it (and I DO NOT BELIEVE FOR A MINUTED IRAN DID DO IT), they could easily propel the drone, and have the path record ERASED for the distance already travelled. It is one-way flight, and they want to make it untraceable.
To me it look like America is bent on manufacturing a story of Iranian involvement.
There have been *SO MANY* missiles fired at the Saudi's. How do we know the one's being inspected-and-analyzed are in fact from the MOST RECENT attack?
1
I wouldn't trust Trump, his administration, the Trump "Justice" Department or any other part of the US government tainted by Trump. Ditto Saudia Arabia.
Trump has reaped what he has sowed: distrust, even hatred of America from outside, and a divided American people.
Most Americans are not deceived. The others can enlist themselves and their children to serve... not America, but their chosen one. Let them fight the Great Coward's Trump(ed) up wars.
3
The best strategy to confront, deal with and contain Iran would be for the US government, with the cooperation and support of its allies, particularly Saudi Arabia, to impose an old-fashioned blockade on Iran. This would be a non-violent strategy of confrontation and containment that would deal with Iran both commercially and militarily. While it would not be a peaceful strategy, it would be a non-violent strategy.
The blockade would apply to the movement of anything by sea, air and land. All the frontiers of access by sea, air and land to Iran would be closed … nothing would be allowed to move in or out of Iran. NOTHING !!!
No ships or aircraft would be allowed to enter or leave Iran. This would cripple Iran’s oil industry, the country’s key source of revenues. Iran has a key presence in Syria with which it has a continuous flow of troops and supplies back and forth through Iraq. Iraq would be asked to close its borders with Iran. This would close Iran’s supply routes with Syria. Turkey and Iran’s other neighbors would also be asked to cooperate in the blockade of Iran.
1
trump has ZERO credibility. ZERO.
2
This should be Saudi Arabia’s fight - if they want to retaliate in the first place. Despite all their military spending it is unlikely they could sustain any serious conflict against Iran on their own. And I for one wouldn’t want to see a single American life (or any other nationality for that matter) lost in this dispute.
But more importantly it highlights the insanity of worldwide reliance on oil and gas. If we relied predominately on renewables for energy this event would not matter so much. Depending on a region so fraught with conflict for so much energy is not a good idea.
1
We have a problem. The UN should be the one to work together and assess what is going on, but the primary investigation should start with Saudi.
But the UN is pretty much a luke warm organization of highly paid bureaucrats that react based on nationalism and far left ideologies (when they don't have to pay for the far left policies they enact). In other words, they spend billions and come up with policies that 'other' countries (US) will pay for, but pretty much accomplish nothing.
The Iran deal was not a good one. Most here knew that when it was signed. It did not stop Iran from building missiles or a nuclear weapon. Iran specifically stated when they signed the 'deal' that Israel had no right to exist and signing the 'deal' did not change that fact. Nor did it change the fact that Iran intends to build nuclear weapons. It was a save-face hope move by countries that want peace, but have no ability to ensure peace.
Where do we go from here? Well, first, let's not say that whatever the US finds is wrong. That's the anti-Trump slogan at the expense of of the US, not to mention the free world.
Let me turn back the pages of history. In the memorable words of Walter Cronkite “You are There”. The date August 2, 1964, the destroyer USS Maddox and the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. The rest is history.
This is a direct consequence of Trump's irrational, ego-driven, impulsive and ignorant withdrawal from the effective international agreement. But why should the US get involved in an attack on Saudi oil fields? The Saudis have amassed modern weaponry that the US has sold them for billions of dollars, they can act for themselves. The key is in an earlier Trumpism: "The Saudis pay cash," and they spend it prolifically at Trump hotels and resorts.
3
Maybe they will find those weapons of mass destruction Colin Powell ruined his career over?
4
American investigators were unable to solve Khasshogi's murder by the crown prince of the country behind 9.11, so I don't trust them still.
They will claim to have found what they have been instructed to find by the most corrupt US government ever.
4
@Technic Ally, American democracy is a sham because one of the most crucial ingredient is transparency. Instead our lawmakers and the administration operate within a walk of deception and deceit of the American public.
2
You mean they are fabricating evidence, just like they did before the war with Iraq.
Read The Lobby by Mearsheimer and Walt on who was behind the war in Iraq.
3
So, the United States will retaliate militarily for an attack on Saudi oil fields in Saudi Arabia. Insanity.
3
Trump has tallied 13,000 lies and trashes our US intelligence (international too) but now expects us to believe him and the Saudis? The same Saudis Trump and Jared owe millions to? This is not our war, if it comes to that. SA can use all the weapons we sold them.
4
The problem with lying all the time is nobody believes what you say.
This applies to the entire Trump administration, since they all lie, all the time.
2
Maybe Congress should show that it still has a pulse on matters of foreign policy, and update the war powers act.
2
Saudi Arabia said it intended to invite the UN and other international experts to visit the site of the attacks and be part of the investigation. It suggested that the Saudis “would wait a prolonged period before taking action.”
It’s a wise strategy to cool down the heat, while the kingdom pursues the initial public offering of its oil giant, Aramco. We’ll see whether the Saudis will make the case at the UN General Assembly next week.
It’s unclear whether Iran’s President Hassan Rouhani and Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif have become targets of possible retaliation. The US has yet to issue them visas to attend the UNGA.
IRNA said Iran's first delegation had not left the country due to not having visas. Zarif was to travel there on Friday, with Rouhani three days later.
1
If the drones or missiles were allegedly 'programmed' to appear they were coming from Iraq, where else could they have originated and made to look otherwise?
1
Why are the propagandists taking such bold gambles with their power to retain credibility in the eyes of their audience? Why are they overreaching with inherently absurd narratives about Russia and brazen lies about Iran instead of staying calm and playing more subtle? Why are they acting like desperate, cornered animals instead of like relaxed rulers of the planet holding all the cards? Because desperate, cornered animals is exactly what they are. A 2017 Department of Defense Risk Assessment by the US Army Strategic Studies Institute says that the US empire is in what it calls “post-primacy” and may currently be on its way out the door.
3
Isn’t there a document that says that Congress has to vote to allow Trump to start a war?
1
Are their American military made parts in Yemen?
Eric, why should we be responsible when it comes to protecting Saudi Arabia? What about 9-11? Most of the hijackers were saudis masterminded by a Saudi! Why didn’t Saudi Arabia protect America on 9-11 if they had the intelligence? Why did they allow so much destruction to happen if they are as cozy to the US as they claim? It goes back to the Bushes. Both dad and son were soft on Saudi because of the oil. They put Saudi interest before the country’s. George Bush junior even distracted the entire world by going after Iraq who had nothing zero to do with 9-11. By doing that he silenced any blame on the Saudi’s.
We are continuing that trend with Donald trump Jared Kushner being cozy to MBS.
Mr Trump, if you want to keep your word of ejection 2016, do not start a war.
3
Somehow, the notion of goat herding desert dwellers possessing the skills, knowledge, ability, facilities, and financial resources to successfully execute a coordinated drone attack over a 500 mile plus distance simply isn't plausible. Wait for the signal analysis to be examined and who's finger prints will be all over the event? BTW, some drones didn't make the target site. Plenty of intel to be had. Patience.......
We should pray forensics are not done on all ammunitions and arms spent in the wars around the world - they mostly made, or supplied, by the US. But it doesnt mean the US fired them.
2
I'd like to know why the u.s. has to be involved. We have homelessness, crumbling infrastructure, lack of affordable health and dental care, an addiction epidemic and a huge wealth gap here that should be front and center. And we should be ashamed of ourselves for not marching in the streets to
protest a government that hasn't lifted a finger to replace lead pipes in Flint. Something is really wrong with this picture.
2
Wait. The government made a claim, and now it’s gathering evidence to support it? Are we living in Opposite World?
2
Former CIA official Mike Morell says that if Iran did this, it was an “act of war” that requires our response. NO. If an act of war, the target was Saudi Arabia, not the U.S. Given the wealth of the Saudis, and the nearly $14.5 billion in our military sales to Saudi Arabia, they are capable of mounting their own defense. We should not risk any American service member’s life to protect oil and a Middle Eastern despot, especially given the risk of igniting a catastrophic larger war.
Trump started this spiral when he pulled out of the meticulously negotiated multi-lateral Iran nuclear pact, all in order to destroy one important legacy of President Obama’s administration. Now that he has fired every grownup in his Administration, who knows where this will end. I fear it will not end well.
2
I wonder if after an examination of missile, drone and bomb fragments found on the ground in Yemen, we'd find "U.S. fingerprints." This military tit for tat garbage has got to stop, and we have to sit down and wrestle with each other around the diplomatic table, or we'll be facing the tragedies of more Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Syrias.
1
Anyone want to consider using this as an opportunity to pressure the Saudis to settle up with the Houthis?
Pompeo ... are you listening?
Such a foolish thought with the administration.
“The Saudis have recovered pristine circuit boards from one of the cruise missiles that fell short of its target, providing forensics specialists the possibility of tracing the missile’s point of origin”.
How convenient for the Saudis.
“... the Saudis have lagged American officials in their willingness to openly blame Iran for carrying out the attack.”
Right. They’re discreet. Trump and his doofus appointees are not.
3
@Jay Dunham Now that they have the technology, will the Saudi’s forgo using humans to guide planes into our skyscrapers?
And we are expected to believe the "findings" from an administration whose core principle is lying? Are these going to be the newest phantom "weapons of mass destruction"?
7
I wouldn't be so quick as to call it a conflict or to attribute this to military action on anyone's part.
If you want to know what I'm talking about, let me tour you thru any third world refinery, power generating plant, chemical plant, or factory.
You have not seen what I know to be true.
You take your life in your hands when you put on a hardhat in much of the world and simply walk thru any such facility.
I'm more inclined to believe the Saudis simply blew the plant up thru incompetence, because I've seen so much of that overseas in my professional career, all over the globe.
All over the globe.
2
No doubt manufacturing "evidence" as fast as they can - and bringing back "made in America."
6
Is that the same way, American intelligence agencies found WMD in Iraq ? When Trump has problems in speaking the truth, nobody will believe him. Starting war with Iran May be easy but finishing will be very difficult . We should learn from the wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan . It will be very long and costly, Why should we fight for Saudi Arabia, iUs Saudi our friend? No.
5
TIMELINE
September 14. Saudi oil fields bombed.
September 17. Israel elections.
How would the one influence the other I wonder. Or was that just a coincidence?
Or could it be Guerrilla Theater? Then the question is who were the players?
3
Sounds familiar. Does anyone remember Iraq and the billions of taxpayer dollars squandered because of Bush administration lies? Back then they twisted intelligence findings, too. Cheney was just one warmonger to enrich himself in the process.
And since when does the US president take orders from the Saudis?
4
@Katherine Kovach, you have to go back to Bush senior’s cozy relationship with the Saudi royalty and all things oil. We always think of the Bushes as patriots but did they really have our country’s best interests at heart, Or was it just their schmoozing of the Saudi Royalty who bestowed them with who knows what. This was no secret but for some reason the media is very selective. The Bushes are out of bounds.
2
Conspiracy theories are not my usual stock in trade but am I the only person who looked at the pictures of the refinery damage and thought that each damaged tanks were punctured in almost exactly the same place? That seems beyond the odds. The Saudis also promise the facility will be back on line very quickly after the dramatic yet not catastrophic explosions. Could the Saudis have done this themselves? Is this just a way for MBS and Trump to look strong and justified in what seems to be an aggressive response? I don’t trust MBS and I don’t trust Trump. I am willing to bet my bone saw that there is more to this than we are being told. How convenient that MBS is now the victim instead of Jamel K’s murderer and Trump can strut around as Commander in Chief?
6
Putin got exactly what he wanted. An American electorate that does not trust its leader. Bravo Vladimir! You win game one. I do not trust a single thing the Trump administration will investigate or Saudi Arabia for that matter. Game two is in 2020. America time for a check mate!
2
to find clues at the site of civilian deaths, would those part of bombs and missiles be investigated. They will trace to the US on weapons sold to the Saudis
2
Iran is obviously struggling as a result of sanctions. If the result is forcing their system into becoming unstable, that is when they will lash out and perform rash acts (perhaps they already have). They could, for example completely destroy the Saudi oil production capability. Mr Trump revoked a nuclear deal with Iran and imposed sanctions and tariffs instead, how wise that was remains to be seen. Certainly Iran is a "powder keg", ready to explode and if it does chaos will ensue and many lives will be lost. However intransigent Iran is, jaw, jaw, is better than war, war. Surely Iran could be persuaded to talk through an intermediary, if not directly to the USA?
1
They've already convicted Iran. Now they're gathering the evidence!
But we know for sure who supplies the high-tech weapons to the Saudis--no need for evidence gathering there. So who're we going to hold responsible for the tens of thousands of civilian deaths in Yemen?
6
Do you need any more proof that the top priority of the Right Wing is protecting the world wide petroleum industry? Be it in Texas, Russia, or Saudi Arabia.
5
Consider what our stable genius has wrought.
* Dismissed, demoralized, and lied about our National Intelligence estimates. Trump can't be trusted.
* Demonstrated consistent patterns of lying to Americans about hostile foreign nations' threats to our country. Trump embraces Putin and other malign dictators.
* Destroyed our allies confidence that America could or would act in accordance with our treaty obligations. Going to war for or with Trump is folly.
These chickens have come home to roost.
We are led by a fool who must be replaced along with his enablers.
10
I must agree with Bob's take on this incident, although I am an admitted cynic. When it comes to large oil making large money off of the American people. Ever since the Gulf of Tonkien incident gave politicians of the time an excuse to escalate the Viet Nam "conflict" America's youth have been giving their lives to defend corporations ability to make obscene tax free profits, often even going so far as to receive refunds (GE for one, when they installed their own energy efficient light bulbs in their buildings), while their executives get tax cuts.
3
This is clearly a regional conflict. An effective role for the U.S. would be to work thru the Security Council to foster greater dialogue among the various parties to avoid future harm to them, others, and globally.
President Trump could advance such an idea at the U.N. without committing the U.S. to any action on behalf of Saudi Arabia. Saudi actions in Yemen have led to a humanitarian catastrophe. An effective move by Saudi Arabia would be to join with President Trump to call for regional dialogue to assure the security of all countries in the region, including Iran.
Many reports point to the growing threat of ISIS to Iraq, Syria and the region. Clearly Trump spoke to early when he claimed the defeat of ISIS. Popular Mobilization Forces were formed by Iraq with the support of Iran to combat ISIS, Al Qaeda and other Sunni terrorist groups that have received support from sources in Saudi Arabia. If a war broke out between Saudi Arabia and Iran we can be confident that ISIS would exploit the situation to the maximum. Who could dislodge ISIS if war is underway? Defeating ISIS could provide one focus of concern to address by a regional security framework.
President Trump could raise the possibility of a line of communications with Iran to avoid miscalculations that could quickly escalate to major conflict and loss of life. Dialogue could lead to renewal of U.S. participation in JCPOA, sanctions relief and perhaps even coordination to address the threat of ISIS.
2
Can someone please tell Trump that these oil companies are not in America. Respond and retaliation for what? They did not bomb a Harley Davidson plant in Wisconsin. They bombed the Saudis. You remember the guys who flew planes into the World Trade Center on 9-11. Now the Saudis know how we felt. Only they did not lose 3000 people. No one was even hurt. Heck they are making more money now with the spike in oil prices. They probably bombarded themselves to drive up profits and to incite Trump to finally attack Iran for them.
12
So our gas prices might rise a bit. This was an attack on a business in Saudi Arabia. Let them deal with it.
10
If the American " experts " could find non existent WMD in Iraq, and destroy that country why cant they find Iranian" complicity" in this attack on Saudi Oil installations and start another disasterous war in the Middle East. Haven't we seen this movie before ?
7
Using Google Earth to trace the strike vectors -- towards assessing all possibilities before jumping to guns -- following in a straight line from the directions pointed to from holes in at least four of the Abqaiq Plants' tanks oil tanks, backwards heading straight up past Hafar Al Batin Saudi Arabia area where drones were sighted and captured on video, and depending on which side of Hafar Al Batin the videos actually captured, could take you either to Jerusalem, Damascus, Beirut, eg. -- any of which are a far cry from Iran. These locations would put the range stretching to 1000 miles... and if some of the drones were falling short, there may have been a limit on their flight.
3
Retaliation implies America was attacked. We were not. Leave retaliation to the attacked. Saudi Arabia can retaliate if they want. It makes no sense that America respond. Respond to what? We were not attacked. Saudi Arabia is not in NATO. We have no obligation to protect them. I guess they are too rich to risk Saudi blood. They want Trump to be a good little president and fight their war for them. Guess those Saudi loans to Trump and Kushner must come with strings attached.
10
The problem with this is: the three parties involved, Iran, Saudis and Mr Trump are all equally unlikely to tell the truth about anything.
6
If any country in the world attacks any other, then we can bomb Iran.
Makes sense to most Republicans.
Actually, I'd say if Iran attacks any country in the world, THAT country can attack Iran.
The contrast in the history books will be stark. Obama negotiated a treaty with Iran, Trump and McConnell and Graham started a war with them.
That's where their racism inevitably led.
8
We keep complaining to the Europeans, our allies that America is spending a lot to keep them safe but somehow, we have extra money to waste on investigations to find out the culprits of the attacks on Saudi oil.
4
What they're going to find out is that the parts were made in China or the US...but that's not what they are going to say to the public.
2
Am I missing something? The US was not attacked. Yemenis attacked Saudi. The weapons may have come from Iran, but why would we get involved in this war? It is nothing to do with us.
Many countries use American weapons, do we agree that all countries that have been attacked with US weapons should attack America?
3
@Jo
If this attack is an attack on the US because the weapons are American made, why aren’t the gun manufacturers liable when their guns attack civilians?
1
We have our analyst working overtime to somehow prove that the missiles/drones were flown from inside Iran, this is what the warmongers need. If these weapons did originate/took off from inside Iran, what was our $1.2 trillion (according to Trump)defense forces doing there sleeping on the job. How come we were not able to detect such a large attack, very large according to Donald Trump, we do have a lot of military assets right around Iran.
If the operation originated from Iran we would have known it. If Iran is directly involved in this operation we and our intelligence have really done a poor job of estimating the potential of harm that could come to our forces and our allies in the area.
It is time for cooler heads to prevail and not help destroy the rest of the energy infrastructure of Saudi Arabia, UAE and Iran. Surely we would see one of the worst recession the world have ever seen Mr. President and you could kiss your reelection good by.
3
If a response is taken against IRAN what will IRAN do?
My thought is they are capable of destroying the Saudi's
ability to process oil. If that was to happen then what would be the impact on the world economy?
2
Do the writers realize that the U.S. technically declared war on Iran without provocation?
We did so by instituting the present embargo based on misrepresentation of the facts about the nuclear deal and Iran's adherence to it.
So, where is the justification for blaming Iran, which is fighting for survival?
None of this means I like the Iranian government. It means only that I remember who started the current mess and how. I also remember who started the Saudi was on Yemen: Saudi Arabia with help from the U.S.A. under Obama.
1
With no clear evidence, mountains of speculation, and an absurd case for Irans motivation, I left wanting a broader list of possibilities.
1
What I miss so far in reporting on the attack on the Saudi Abqaiq processing facility and Khurais oil field.
Are the Saudis able to track every flying object in this case drones and missiles that enter Saudi air space so that a complete digital record exists for each such object?
If the answer is yes, why have we not been given a complete article on this subject alone?
What I also miss is discussion of why entity x, y, or z would want to carry out attacks that show, apparently, that current technology makes it possible to rain down explosives so precisely.
The why question actually comes from my Iranian comment writer "compatriot" Hamid Varzi who posed that question yesterday.
I look forward to an analysis of the possible answers to the why question, as long as these answers do not come from the Trump administration.
In the end, the choice is simple. If the Saudis want to wage war on the entity they can demonstrate sent the missiles, let them start that war with zero support from the USA.
Given that last provision, we know they will not start that war, one they alone would lose.
7
Good thing America is leaving the forensic investigation and strategy to the Saudis - they really proved their forensic capabilities in the swift, transparent investigation into their obscene murder of Adnan Kashoggi, and have shown their strategic mastery in Yemen.
And this is backed up by equally transparent and convincing US intelligence and strategic genius, so well demonstrated in the runup and sequel to the Iraq Cakewalk.
9
@Martin -- Flowers. Iraqis threw flowers. To welcome us, in all their joy. Didn't you enjoy all the flowers?
2
So, when the Saudis (via their support of the other side of this conflict) commit atrocities and the "parts" of their weapons trace back to the U.S., then the U.S. is equally responsible for the atrocities of the Saudis, right?
7
@Martin That was actually the conclusion of a UN Investigation - thar weapons sales by the US, Britain, an France contribute to the loss of life in Yemen.
Why is anyone in America worried about what the Saudis do, or what happens to them?
When was the last time saudi arabia did anything for America?
9
This aritcle is in part an opinion piece, as it constantly attributes to Iran thoughts that cannot be verified and are likely to be just the projections of the thoughts of the analysts and pure speculation. E.g., "One theory gaining traction among American officials". E.g., "Iranian officials may be counting" on Mr. Trump's supposed "reluctance to start a war". Thankfully, also "others familiar with the intelligence noted that the evidence is not yet irrefutable".
6
Will someone please tell me how the security of the United States is threatened by this? What country (ies) benefit for our involvement? What multi-national corporations? Is it wag the dog time? If this is an act of war against Saudi Arabia, do they not have the assets to prosecute a reaction? Is this not another example of why so many nations want the bomb? If Iran had the bomb do you think we would be shaking out sabers? Has anyone added up the cost to our country for its continuing involvement in military actions in the Middle East? A hint: it is our National debt. Taking out Iran benefits whom and why is that our problem? Note also that declarations of war are an Article 1 task of Congress - not the Article 2 POTUS. Every time these aberrations occur, our Republic is diminished.
6
One might be cynical to note that the three biggest beneficiaries of these strikes are:
1) American Big Oil
2) American weapons manufacturers
3) Russian weapons manufacturers
And then one would wonder what Putin and Trump talk about in their numerous closed-door, unrecorded meetings.
Their new Cold War is good for a new arms race, but sometimes you need a little hot war to interest new buyers and restock old ones.
6
“Mr. Morell said it would be important to have allies such as Britain and France join any retaliation so the United States was not going it alone.”
The arrogance and absurdity of Morell, and anyone who thinks like him here, is nothing short of staggering.
Unilaterally walk away from the nuclear deal, ratchet up sanctions even though Iran was (until recently) in compliance, witness the regional escalation of hostilities caused by this antagonism, and then expect the UK and France (who are still signatories to the JCPA) to expend lives and treasure to clean up this Trumpian mess.
The 2020 election can’t come soon enough.
7
Its 9/17/2019, 6 days "after 911". When we promise the victims we will "Never Forget" perhaps we should recall that over 90% of the terrorists on that day came from Saudi Arabia. And before we follow the lead of this White House regarding the Iranian role in these attacks, we must "Never Forget" the phony roll out of testimony regarding Weapons Of Mass Destruction. Congress do your job!
20
It’s good that a Republican Administration is conducting the investigation. Considering the past two years of Democrats making snap judgements about things they believe are correct and that are later proven to be wrong, Hillary Clinton would have us in a full scale war with Iran.
3
Every single speculation in this article is from some "American official". As soon as they say an "American official", Trump and Pompeo's lies come to my mind and "speculation and evidence" is discredited immediately. Isn't that sad?
13
So if they find that Iran had nothing to do with the bombing you won’t believe they are telling the truth?
4
The Saudis have purchased hundreds of billions of dollars of aircraft, bombers, bombs, tanks, missiles, and other military equipment. The kingdom has a massive arsenal of destructive weapons. If the Saudis are incapable and incompetent in defending themselves against drones, then that is their problem.
And, why does Trump or anyone else think the US has an obligation to protect the Saudis? Whatever happened, whoever did it: not a single American life was taken and not single drop of American was blood was shed and not a single American dollar was lost in the drone attacks on the oil refinery..
16
I hears Pompeo is going to Saudi Arabia. Will they let him touch the orb or do the sword dance? Will they tell him what Trump has to do or will they have to consult Putin? Will the Republicans go along with whatever is decided or just do nothing? So many questions and so few spines. What a proud country we've become under the Trump family regime.
5
As the saying goes, you reap what you sow.
Neither Trump or MBS can cobble together a coalition of the willing.
On the Saudi's side: Yemen, Oman, Jordan are hostile to the Saudis. Emiratis are pursuing their own agenda while Turkey and Qatar have sided with Iran.
Trump cannot quite count on Germany, France and the rest of NATO to help him with a stituation they see as his own making.
Both Trump and MBS have credibility issue.
The Saudis are not accustomed to hardship and are ill suited to wage a war they promote. Not at all sure whether the American people are ready to support yet another war in the ME.
In the meantime Iran will give Trump, Bibi, and MBS the chaos they seem to thrive on.
11
Repeating what others have already said:
Regardless of who might be responsible (and the Houthis have claimed responsibility), this was not an attack on human life, but on economic targets. Saudi Arabia is not a NATO member nor a member of any other alliance that we are compelled to defend.
For journalists to tacitly accept that there are any ground for U.S. "retaliation" in these circumstances is irresponsible. That's without even getting into the lack of truthfulness in this administration.
12
Next up, Pompeo at the UN (channeling Colin Powell doing Bush's bidding) holding up a yellow test-tube and claiming that it's Iranian "yellow-cake" radioactive material...?
13
Is the US still examining clues to the Saudi murder of Jamal Khashoggi? Oh well, they still buy our jets, might as well help them out.
13
Will the evidence "bolster" the claim Iran was behind it, or will the evidence show that the attacks came from Iranian drones, missiles, and were launched from their territory?
We pretty much know the weaponry is Iranian. Regardless, does that require America to send in the troops? Hardly. But, if the Saudis don't respond, and I think they are awaiting clear evidence and a nod from our Administration, you can be sure Iran will do far worse.
Commenters in this site are way too excusing of the Iranian regime. Why? We all dislike the Saudi government (is there anything to like?), but that doesn't mean Iran is morally correct to attack those oilfields.
3
Am I missing something? Nary a report of deaths and injuries anywhere. How is it possible the strike conveniently came when nobody was around. Why no evidence of these cruise missiles showing up on the most sophisticated and mutually supporting tracking systems in the air, on land, and at sea by either the Saudis or the US Navy off-shore and forces based in Riyadh? I am suspicious that this attack serves to bump up flagging oil prices while attempting to shore up support for a dubious ally, the House of Saud. More evidence, please.
11
The answer to the question as to who was ultimately behind the attacks on the Saudi oil infrastructure is really quite simple. The Saudi government's relentless attacks on the people of Yemen and the Trump administration's almost unilateral arming of these war crimes in spite of the Congressional votes to end it are to blame. So who is to blame? Trump and MBS.
12
Why is this our business? I don't think we have a defense treaty with Saudi Arabia. Why should we care who did the damage? The Saudis are at war with the Houthis in Yemen and they claim to have done the damage. That's good enough for me.
It is none of our business.
9
When Iran nationalized it’s oil, the US and the BRITs overthrew their elected government but when the Saudis nationalized Aramco the oil companies and the US didn’t object because it changed a deductible royalty into a tax credit which guaranteed that the oil companies would never pay US taxes. A buried despicable fact. The Saudis never discovered a drop of oil on their soil but they rent floors on the Trump Towers which is all commander bone spurs cares about. Look up how the Saudi’s got control of the oil without objection.
If I were Iran I would line up every missile and drone on their border and aim at the Saudi oil fields and say go ahead and attack us which is what the North Koreans do which keeps them immune from any attack
7
Iranian technology possibly, but it would be interesting if it were N. Korean or even Russian. Do you think Trumps puppets would even ever be allowed to admit that? Maybe but, would I believe anything that came out of the mouth of these people? NOT A CHANCE.
6
If Iran is a "destabilizing force" in the Middle East, then, certainly, Donald Trump qualifies as a "destabilizing force" in the entire world. The Administration's hypocrisy on this issue is beyond staggering. The again, this should come as no surprise to anyone who understands the ol' bone spur is intimately aware of the fact that he just might need a "war of convenience" in order to stay out of prison.
9
@Chicago Guy, I think you are being premature about Trump starting a war with Iran. It would more likely not start until the Fall of 2020, when Trump is losing in the polls and needs a diversion.
2
@JerryV
That is precisely what I mean. I didn't specify a time for the start of the war, but I think 6 to 9 months from the election would be perfect timing for ol' bone spur to whip thing up.
2
Are we the only ones "looking for clues"re;did Iran do it?Where's everyone else?How about the UN?I thought we were no longer playing the world's policeman.SA attacked us on 9/11..this is someone else fight, not ours.
7
Who can trust Trump??
8
I smell a rat.
How is it that explosive devices (be they missiles or drones) can penetrate these enormous Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) storage tanks, explode, and all that appears to result is the penetration holes from the missiles/drones?
I would think an attack like this would result in the complete obliteration of those storage tanks--especially if they were filled with LNG.
Is it possible that the tanks were empty and this was a staged event perpetrated by the Saudis as a pretext for war?
12
@Ken -- The tanks were for sulfur dioxide, removed from crude oil, making it safer to transport, lower in sulfur for better sale price, and providing feedstock for chemical products.
It does not burn the same way as oil or natural gas, though it is a gas and does burn it is still relative.
They busted all the tanks, full and empty, as a way to shut down the loading process of the tankers. That can be made up, and the tankers can speed up, and presently loaded tankers backed up at sea can up anchor (off Singapore) or speed up.
2
Shouldn't these American investigators first check with the Weather Bureau to get the real story?
11
1. Why do we coddle the Saudis who supply a small percent of U.S. oil, finance tens of thousands of madrassas hate schools, and lead the world in beheadings?
2. Why would anyone believe *anything* coming out of the Trump administration?
15
I could just as easily believe that Israel, Saudi Arabia or the US bombed this facility - as Iran.
18
We don't need Saudi oil. We have no strategic interest in Yemen. It's likely some Saudi government officials played a role in the 9/11 attack. There is no way we should go to war over attacks to Saudi Arabia oil fields. If Trump does attack Iran over this, it will be because he is financially beholden to the Saudi family not because it would be in U.S. interest.
13
Thanks to modern technology, the U.S. now has so much oil that we are exporting it. Why is the U.S. inserting itself into what is essentially a religious war between two Muslim countries in the Middle East?
11
@Paul -- The supposed US concern is for the overall world oil market, not just our own supply.
That raises the interesting question of why we have for so long wrecked so much of the supply to that market, in Libya, Venezuela, Iraq, and of course the huge production of Iran, while also trying to reduce sales of Russian oil.
We do everything we can to disrupt world oil supply, even as we proclaim we must defend it in Saudi Arabia.
5
@Paul - "Why is the U.S. inserting itself into what is essentially a religious war between two Muslim countries in the Middle East?"
To sell weapons. We don't make fine cars like a Mercedes or anything that people want to buy at Walmart. All we make are really good weapons and if there is peace on earth, we're broke. Well, more broke thane we are.
3
If anyone took the trouble to examine the detritus of the war the Saudis have been waging in Yemen, they would find American-made weapons. Weapons that have killed thousands and contributed to a profound humanitarian catastrophe.
Nobody died in this refinery attack. Contrast that with 9/11, an attack fomented by Saudis, that killed thousands. Trump, in a fit of abject ignorance and pique, pulled the US out of the nuclear treaty that six other nations continue to support. That treaty was working, by all accounts. If Trump wants to finger the villain in all this, he should look in the mirror. Every day he makes this country and the world less safe, through is ignorance of the world and of history and his consuming hatred of President Obama.
11
This sounds awfully familiar....
8
Can't understand.
OK for Saudi's to use US weapons in Yemen.
But not for Houthis to use Iranian weapons on the Saudis.
23
Why isn’t Saudi Arabia doing the examination? It’s there country. Right?
10
What needs to be investigated is why Trump is in bed with Saudi Arabia.
The attack on Saudi oil has only increased the profit of American oil companies by boosting the value of their oil.
The US was delighted to do its best to shut down the oil production of Venezuela and Iran. Why is it not pleased at a hit to Saudi profits?
What hold does Saudi Arabia have on Trump family finances? That's the question here.
13
Act of War - Yes. US response - No. It's not an act of war against the United States of America.
11
Here we go again. Most of these weapon systems can be traced back to us in one way or another. We can trust no one. And for what it's worth I don't even trust our current government now.
9
Why cant the US leave the Middle East alone. Especially Iran, haven’t we attacked them enough? It’s been over 30 years already of constant war already.
9
I think this is a grand hoax to give the US a pretext to attack Iran. The Saudis May have attacked themselves. So far all or most of the info we have about the severity of the attack comes from the Saudis. One thing we know is that at a large Aramco facility, no one got hurt, no one. We also know that the Saudis have promised that their ability to supply oil to their customers will not be interrupted. And as Vladimir Putin pointed out today, billions of dollars worth of missile defense the Saudis bought from Trump failed to intercept the attack. Maybe it was turned off and Aramco employees were sent home. Meanwhile Trump has said that he’s waiting for the Saudis to explain what happened.
12
Virtually all countries have munitions "made in the USA" that we have sold them so how on earth would a determination be made?
When our Congress starts sending their own kids to war maybe they will change their tune.
11
You can hire all the experts you need that will examine the evidence and state that scoring nuclear waste in Times Square will have no effect and be safe for everyone. I have a hard time believing a lot of government information.
4
So ... is this a false flag attack? Do the circuit boards contain tiny print saying "Made in Venezuela," but in Arabic or Russian? I can safely bet the circuit boards weren't assembled by Kentucky's coal lobby, but I won't exclude participation of both of its senators.
8
Why are we even involved? Spend tax dollars on Americans not terrorists nations who killed thousand of Americans or doesn't the GOP remember the number of Saudis who flew the planes into the towers.
12
So then every bomb, bucket and drone that we’ve sold/donated to others implicates us, right? I’m sure we’ll be taking responsibility for that really quick.
12
I don't see any upside in this for Iran, and thus, no reason for them to do it.
On the other hand, I see tremendous upside for Saudi, especially if they can get the USA to start a war with Iran and pay for it.
This looks like an inside job.
16
Saudi Arabia spent years bombing Yemen indiscriminately (with our weapons), killing tens of thousands of civilians. Now the chickens come home to roost, and their oil facilities get hit (by the way, with no casualties reported so far), and we’re expected to go to war for them on the flimsiest of evidence? No way!
19
Sorry, but I stopped believing anything the US government declares way back in the Bush years.
16
Do the parts say, "Made in Russia"? We should stay out of the Saudi/Iran war if there is one.
8
This whole issue has become absurd and hypocritical....even if Iran was a supplier of these arms - how is that any different than the US selling billions and billions of dollars worth of weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia?
The other astonishing fact is that apparently Saudi is sure the attack was orchestrated and originated from Iran - furthermore, they invite every country and organisation to participate in the investigation in their country however they still haven't sorted out the issue of dismembering of a journalist in one of their own embassies, nor welcome any outside help into this investigation. A person was lured, tortured and murdered, it is a lot more serious than anything else.
The world should not have to deal with this madness any longer.
21
Those teardrop shaped containers are for a low pressure gas like butane, maybe even a volatile liquid like pentane, not liquefied natural gas, which is methane and has a very high pressure at normal environmental temperatures. The punctures on those containers were made by non-explosive rounds most likely fired from an aircraft mounted canon, probably a C-130 or an A-10 (Warthog), targeted by sensors and aimed by computer controlled actuators. Rocket powered missiles do not impact so perfectly, exactly centered on all of the targets, and they tumble on impact leaving large, irregular holes. Altogether the damage to the site is trivial. I think the Saudis did it.
19
@Himsahimsa, got me thinking, that the impact of those "perfectly centered" shots almost looked like they were photo-shopped. A gas explosion in Maine (pray for the firefighter killed) made the building flat so why not these structures? Maybe it like in the movies where the woman tears her blouse and cries she was attacked. But then, I've grown accustomed to trump's new lows and spiteful hatreds that this attack made have been staged.
3
Trump's first overseas trip as president was to Saudi Arabia. Trump vetoed a bipartisan bill to end US support for Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen. There is no doubt that the weapons used by Saudi Arabia to bomb Houthi towns and villages contain US made parts. Why is Trump so willing to do Saudi Arabia's bidding?
15
Trump is not reluctant to wage war on Iran.
He's been planning it since he took office.
No fool, he. No sitting president has failed to win re-election with the nation at war. Ergo... war is the path to a second term.
Did he involve the Saudi's in this. I have little doubt. Did he consider that the value of US energy stocks would rise if the Saudi fields were disabled? No doubt.
This is a carefully orchestrated event...and prelude to further events. Stay tuned.
6
I don't trust anything that comes out of the Trump admin. After Cheney's non "WMD" evidence (his, not the intelligence community's) for the Iraq war, and after all the lies coming out of Trump+, I cannot not believe. "Evidence" can be made and manipulated. I could believe independent assessments by neutral people under no pressure from Trump+.
6
After immediately declaring the Iranians as initiating the drone attack...we (the US) is examining evidence to determine or try to determine responsibility for the drones.
At this point...who would believe Donald Trump's assertions regarding the drone attack??? He makes things up so routinely that one has to wonder whether any of our allies really trust his "evidence" or assertions. And similarly, who would want to join an alliance (against Iran) headed by the US when all concerned know that the US doesn't "do" cooperation well. Trump is trying to dismantle international structures not assemble them.
7
It would be interesting to know if Saudi Arabia has stopped bombing Yemen now that they know what the repercussions will be.
8
Does "locked and loaded" target Trump's more rural, less educated, more military, more gun-friendly backers? It seems it probably does not reflect the culture of most of the country.
6
How can any American trust what Trump, Pompeo, their ilk and US intelligence, supporting Trump, what they are saying. Remember the debacle when the White House, Bush and the US intelligence informed Americans that Iraq had WMD? We do remember how that went and Iraq never recovered.
These days evidence can clearly be manipulated by the US intelligence or whoever is leading the investigation into the cause of the oil refinery disaster in Saudi Arabia. Lastly, let the Saudis fight their own war.
7
Easy: they will simply invent evidence and findings that implicate Iran. Will this be surprising?
Disgusting.
7
Will the public be informed on the detail of the "evidence"?
Will there be an opportunity for unbiased experts to challenge the "evidence"?
or are we just supposed to take Donny Trump's and pompous Pompeo's words for it?
5
Wasn’t Israel bombing in Lebanon using drones just a few weeks ago? Wasn’t Israel bombing in Iraq and Syria just a few weeks ago. Is it likely Israel might bomb in Saudi Arabia to make it look like Iran was to blame, knowing it my be the catalyst to get us to attack Iran?
13
@e.s. -- I suspected they had a role in the tanker sabotage too.
2
It's interesting to note that our own domestic oil and gas production will be the primary beneficiaries of this bombing. I'm sure, in fact, that the fracking here in Texas has already escalated. I also imagine the weapons dealers are licking their chops at the opportunity to sell the Saudis more weapons systems (though obviously the ones we sold them don't seem to work too well). I'm sorry for being suspicious, but after Donald Trump decided to repeatedly and viciously undermine our entire intelligence apparatus, I have a really hard time believing anything this administration says at all. Could these drones have been launched by a US proxy by chance?
5
Oh, for goodness sake.
String a couple of levels of high-tech chain mail above your oil facilities, etc. Drones and cruise missiles will detonate against them on contact, with very little damage to the property below. A defense that can also be moved or adjusted quickly.
A lot cheaper than batteries of Patriot (or S-400) missiles, or ego-booster skyscrapers in Riyadh.
5
If our military is expected to defend Saudi Arabian monetary interests then as mercenaries each trooper should receive a payment of one million Dollars from the Saudi coffers before participating in any military action.
11
Any decent lawyer would likely be able to have such "evidence" disqualified in the judgement, even if the drone parts match those of true Iranian manufacture. Perhaps the US will find Iranian leadership fingerprints on these parts?
5
I am sorry but I do not trust anything that come out of Saudi Arabia or our president. Both lie continuously and without hesitation. The Saudis have real motivation to present a false flag operation that would benefit them financially and continue the war with Yemen using US support.
If these "drones" came from Iran, then why were they not detected with all of the billions of dollars of US technology sitting offshore looking for unfriendly aircraft in the sky in this theater of operation?
Before I believe the Iranians did anything I would want to see an investigation from a neutral party.
11
I'd trust Consumer Reports to investigate the drone parts, but not the "company" that's getting itchy for another war.
12
Folks, it wasn't Iran. Iran knows the Saudis have the full support of the US. What's the upside? It was Netenyahoo, fearing loss of his election.
15
I hope an independent, NON-biased group gathers the evidence first. The regime of our country is begging their "Did Iran do it?" question, and it smells blood.
5
@SR -- They certainly expected to smell blood.
I think they are still sniffing around, puzzled at the response they're getting from home and all over the world.
3
Isn't it amazing that this President, who pushed a ban on immigrants from Islamic countries is even considering to engage in a war that would likely cost American lives to defend the interests of an extremist Islamic state?
9
One man might have the answer: Jared Kushner.
3
If He Who Shall Not Be Named says country X is responsible, you’ll know that is the one country that is free of suspicion. He’s lied about everything else, it would be foolish to believe him now. And don’t forget Iraq and “WMD”s.
11
The U.S. intelligence and military personnel are analyzing missiles mechanisms that struck Saudi oil refineries? Is the U.S. charging the Saudis for this service?
12
The Saudis take forever to investigate information they do not want to disseminate.They have yet to shine any light on the gruesome murder of Khashoggi-they are investigating.To the extent that they are embarrassed by this attack, again they will stall with an endless investigation.
6
Saudi Arabia do not need any investigation in case of Jamal murder. The structure of the government in Saudi Arabia organized by the king, so it will not make any scene to investigate itself unless they don’t have sense.
2
Investigations do not begin with a conclusion. One hopes the investigators are open-minded enough to discover who is responsible for the strikes, Iran or someone else.
10
@Jean Travis Given the way Trump and his misadministration operates, the conclusion has been made. It is just a matter of time to conjure up evidence that we south of the border will believe is true-WMDs comes to mind.
6
@Jean Travis
Actually, investigations often begin with a conclusion. That's the whole reason for the existence of right-wing "think" tanks.
23:00 EDT, 9/17
4
After Colin Powell’s address at the United Nations and the “misstatements”from officials and mediaapparently intended to gain support from the American people for the soon to be attack on Iraq, I do not believe anything I read or hear in the MSM. I see no one challenging the official narrative. All the MSM is in lockstep with this. This is when I know to suspect a setup to enable an established agenda.
5
"To Find Clues in Saudi Oil Attacks, U.S. Examines Missile and Drone Parts"
"To Find Clues in Iraq of WMD(s), U.S. Examines Intelligence Data"
Sound familiar?
That's because it is.
Just another in a long line of American efforts to, in the words of Noam Chomsky, 'manufacture consent'.
9
A post-mortem to ascertain who?!!
A case of powerful nations engaging in proxy war and wasting resources.
3
So if we show that the drone parts came from Iran and thus hence Iran is responsible for the attacks, does that mean if the Houti's show that the bombs dropped on them came from the US that the US is responsible for the bombings?
12
Bet a dollar the Saudis will be willing for America to send our men and women on land attacks.
9
1. Saudi Arabia is a partner, not an ally. Don't but into the line that were Iran found to be responsible, it would equate an act of war requiring US response.
2. Don't underestimate the Houthi. They said they did it, have plenty of motive to do it, and actually could benefit from such an escalate to de-escalate type strike as they've been bullied by Saudi for a long time now while Saudi has felt safe. And the target is a perfectly legitimate military one from a Houthi position.
3. Saudi has been taking a "reasonable" come and see approach where one would expect war drums. And there were no casualties. Beware possible false flag.
4. Iran could have done it with motive to force others to buy their oil after having been essentially cut from the market under threat of sanctions by Trump to any buyer. However, Iran also isn't in a position to de-escalate by escalation. They know if caught they'd get hit hard and don't want that. Anyone suggesting it is selling horse hockey pucks. Also, claims Iran could have used a circuitous route could easily support a Houthi strike; don't sell the idea to one hypothesis while discounting it from the other.
5. Don't trust any intelligence filtered through this administration.
6. Let prices rise; it'll help our green economy.
7. We've got no business in this serpents' nest.
6
Hurry! Someone go get Colin Powell to spin this!
4
Doing business with the Saudis is exactly like doing business with Trump - their hand is either in your pocket, or stabbing you in the back.
25
@Peter Zenger -- They use two hands, doing both at the same time.
2
"Evidence" just like the phoney photos Colin Powell showed us of the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?
6
So, Iran (allegedly) hits Saudi Arabia, and it's up to the United States to "do something!"? Really? That's been the American reflex for decades now, under both Republican and Democratic presidents. It's simply what we "do." That's the problem with American foreign policy.
I thought that Trump promised, among other promises, not to get into stupid, endless wars?
10
What I remember is that Kennedy prevented going to war in Cuba, Reagan started the war in Grenada, Bush senior went into Iraq under false pretense as did his not so smart Son who opened the Pandora Box.
2
Wow. What a shocker. Trump is going to tell us where the attacks came from. From where do you think he is going to say they came from? Iran of course!
7
Iran needs the NRA’s lobby, ha, they’ll insure that the manufacturer is liability free!
5
I'd trust a third party -France, Germany, etc.- to examine the evidence and give their opinion. But definitely not this WH admin. or Saudi Arabia, both of them have proven themselves to be straight out liars!
6
"some kind of proportional military strike, perhaps against Iranian missile sites and storage areas"
Those missiles and storage areas are the Iranian defense against any US military attack.
Iran would correctly understand that to be the start of open war with the US, preparing the way for further air operations.
The only possible Iranian response short of surrender would be all out attack. Would they? We presume they just did one, so yes, they'd do more.
Is that what we want? Some of our insiders do in fact want that, just as they've always wanted war on Iran.
Do the rest of us want that? Not me.
11
First question should be, where did those drones come from? Who is supplying people with armaments?
Dig deep enough and I bet you'll find too many weapons have their root in US foreign policy, the eagerness to make money and the willingness to sell to the highest buyer.
I'm not convinced the US has any interest in peace or preventing disasters such as this.
8
Here we go again? Gulf of Tonkin and WMD. Is it too much to ask that we might learn from history as opposed to repeating it.
When you hear all the arguments about how costly the Green New Deal is, think about the endless billions in subsidies for our fossil fuel industry and the literally trillions we've spent on pointless Middle-Eastern wars. Not to mention the price paid by the people unfortunate enough to live there. This is our national security! In what bizarro world is that true?
10
Interesting the attack came after the firing of Bolton? Iranians spotted a opportunity and the hard liners are running the show.Trumps miscalculation that economic sanctions will bring them to the table, no the hard liners run the show . The risk is not only with Saudi Arabia but the other gulf states as well..tribes with flags as the Egyptians call them. Too much of a Regional loss for the US.
1
The Saudi attack has generated a lot of unanswered questions. One question I haven't heard is:
Who profits from increased oil price that the attack caused? And, who profits from increased Middle East instability?
Seems of the three largest oil producers there is one that has suffered an economic decline because of the past few years of low price and its run by a ruthless man who would love to see the US embroiled a Middle East War.
A double win for Vladimir, help to his lagging economy and a significant strike against his number one rival, untraceable to him.
Is it unreasonable to expect Vladimir providing technical help to the Houthis?
2
@A skeptic
Please dig a little deeper to see who really benefits from an attack on Iran.
4
Re the refinery attacks, regardless of who carried out the attacks, Americans were not attacked. How is this our fight? Why can’t Saudi Arabia defend itself?
10
Would this be the same US Intelligence agencies that Trump already said he doesn't trust?
6
...and has mercilessly shamed and mocked RIGHT IN FRONT of their in-memoriams?
It would actually be nice if he meant to draw down US spying in good faith and for good reasons; the heroic Snowden showed why we should rein that in. But he's not trying to stop spying to help the people, but put spies in danger to help putin hurt the people.
1
Pretending to gather evidence for their foregone conclusion - maybe they'll find WMDs in that wreckage.
6
The situation in Mideast is getting worse and less secure. This administration intends to contain Iranian's influence in that region, but lack of strategic policies. Trump boasts of himself a great deal maker. But he is short-sighted and lack of any long term version.
1
I can see it now: Trump will erroneously hit Iran on behalf of the Saudis, birthplace of the 9/11 terrorists and wahabbist radicalism. And he'll rightfully get out of Afghanistan.
Will the Democrats then be able to call him "weak on terror"?
1
Quoting:
“American intelligence analysts and military investigators are examining a missile guidance mechanism recovered in Saudi Arabia that may provide clues as to the missile’s origins and flight path”
But their search for the facts is biased in favour of a pre-ordained outcome:
“as they continue gathering information to make the administration’s case that Iran was responsible for last weekend’s attack against Saudi oil facilities.”
Just searching for the truth would suffice.
Of course we have been here before with fabricated intelligence about weapons of mass destruction so GW Bush could go to war in Iraq.
Back then America had global credibility.
Now it has absolutely none.
Obviously, Trump wants to get re-elected.
Perhaps he thinks he should start a war.
5
@Prometheus
Maybe they will find Iranian passports
2
Yellow Cake!
1
Give the evidence to Barr And tell him the conclusion you want
2
"The top American air commander in the Middle East is urging the Saudi-led coalition of Arab nations to be more forthcoming about an investigation into an airstrike in northern Yemen earlier this month that struck a school bus, killing more than 40 children."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/world/middleeast/airstrike-yemen-children.html
"After Khanna's bill passed the House in February, presidential contender Bernie Sanders sponsored a version of the resolution that passed in the Senate. President Donald Trump used his second veto in office to defeat the resolution (to direct the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress. On 2 May 2019), the Senate failed to muster enough votes to overturn the veto."
https://www.newsweek.com/lockheed-martin-yemen-school-bus-bomb-war-resolution-death-toll-saudi-arabia-1418598
Only 7 Republicans tried to overturn Trump's veto: Collins (R-ME), Daines (R-MT), Lee (R-UT), Moran (R-KS), Murkowski (R-AK), Paul (R-KY), and Young (R-IN).
Not Voting were Bennet (D-CO) and Rubio (R-FL).
None of the 45 Republican Senators advocated US support in Yemen; but, what the 45 Republican Senators did - was fail to recognize that a declaration of war is their Constitutional duty and not the President's call.
Time to remind all hawks in Congress - ON HOW war is actually declared. It's not Saudi money nor Trump's investigation. Nothing replaces Congress' declaration of war.
5
@Snaggle Paws "Bernie Sanders sponsored resolution that passed in the Senate. President Donald Trump used his second veto in office to defeat the resolution (to direct the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress.)
This is what happens with craven dereliction of duty to insist on their prerogative to commit men and resources to war. After Pearl Harbor, FDR REQUESTED a declaration of war from Congress. Get on the horn and demand they revoke the War Powers Act. But, if you are from Texas, don't expect to have a human answer your call to your senator: the recording tells you how important your call is, but all you get to do is leave a recording. Just leave a message you have not forgotten how to vote.
3
When you start with your answer and then go in search for facts that tend to support it, it's called confirmation bias.
In general it is intellectually lazy.
Often it is off-scale dangerous (think yellow cake, centrifuge parts, WMD, drone origin...).
7
Are they finding “Made in America” stamped on the weapons ?
5
The Saudis were the ones that flew planes into the Trade Towers and Pentagon killing thousands. The Saudis used a bone saw to hack a journalist into pieces and then hiding his body and pretending it didn't happen. Who would believe anything they say or the Trump administration.
9
Iranian missile clones made in Israel and launched fro a location to make it look like they were coming from Iran? You can never tell these days.
8
"Drones and the Iran War" is a sequel to "WMDs and the Iraq War". Let's hope the next sequel is not "World War III and the end of the World".
5
I have no doubt that the Trump administration will "find" what they are looking for. They have fabricated evidence in the past. The chicken hawks are just itching to attack Iran, and the Saudis and Israelis want the U.S. to do this, and essentially support their ambitions on the American taxpayer's dime.
Iran has not attacked any U.S. asset. We have no business in this matter at all.
9
"U.S. Examining Missile and Drone Parts for Clues in Saudi Oil Attacks"
Where missile/drones parts originate does not tell us much. By now, the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia have their own collection of Iranian missiles and drone parts. And since lying and cheating by politicians are the norm these days, any "missing piece" could be "found" in someone's collection!
What everyone knows is this: Iranian missiles use GPS satellite data to get to their targets. Since the GPS satellites belong to US military, if an Iranian missile is fired from anywhere - for example from Yemen, or from a submarine in the Persian Gulf, or from a ship in Red Sea - the US can examine satellite data logs to identify its launch coordinates.
However, if the Iranians are not the one who fired the missile but the goal is to accuse them of doing so, two things are needed: 1) a charred Iranian missile fuselage; and, 2) a set of doctored satellite data. While the earlier is easy to have, preparing the latter takes time. So, depending on how long it takes for the US/Saudis to present the information on "who did it", one could guess if the information is genuine or massaged to produce the desired outcome.
Interestingly, the Saudis did not at once finger Iranians as the culprit. They may have been worried that, if they do so, then they cannot explain the next butch of Houthi drones landing at their door steps. So, one has to also watch for bombing of areas from which Houthis drones are launched.
4
Nothing the US will say should be trusted. These so-called "intelligence" officials are of the same ilk that concocted the WMD lies, and thousands of other lies. Let us not forget that the WMD deception was complex and very detailed lie. It is child's play to fake the alleged origen, trajectories or anything else related to the missiles. That is basic US 'counter-intelligence' work 101. To top it off the US liars are working with the Saudi liars (remember the straight faced denials in the Kashoggi murder?). Yes, perhaps Iran did it. They certainly had the right to considering the illegal and inhuman US sanctions against the Iranian people, and the Saudi wars. If the Yemenis did it then more power to them considering US/Saudi war crimes.
3
If Trump Administration says it; it is a lie.
9
It’s almost like .... MBS said some nice things about Israel to get America to fight Iran for him and the dupes Jared Kushner and his moronic Dad in Law believe that a Middle East lorded by one man is a safer bet. So is the USA willing to devote thousands of lives and another Trillion dollars on installing MBS as king of the Middle East? Do you really think that’s safer for Israel? I have my doubts.
3
I presume that among the identifiable remains of the attacking drones Trump's team wants to find items boldly marked Made in the Islamic Republic of Iran, whereas they will more likely just find Made in China labels. He may wish that nothing be found, because any evidence of Iran's involvement will leave Trump with the conundrum of what to do next. He claims he doesn't want war, yet there is little alternative as his sanction thumbscrew just bottomed out. A limited strike against Iran's missile and air power will blossom to strong counter measures against Arab oil refineries and wells and assorted attacks against oil tankers. Iran may suffer extensively from the damages it can inflict, but the consequences on the world economy would be long lasting and detrimental to Trump's reelection prospects. Doing nothing will be viewed by many outside of his devoted core base as a monumental foreign relations failure. A failure that compares with his alienation of our allies, his uncritical embrace and trust in despots like Kim, Putin, Xi and tolerance of their aggressive policies and human rights violations, his tariff wars and withdrawal from the Paris climate change agreement. Trump miscalculated the bargaining strength of US's economic and military power in his actions against North Korea and Iran, and very likely will have nothing to show for in his foreign affair achievements at election time.
4
"Although Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest spenders in the world on military hardware, the damage from Saturday’s airstrike suggested scant preparation for a full-fledged air war."
Although the US has been delighted to take Saudi money, it has always delivered items carefully calculated to leave the Saudis vulnerable to an Israeli airstrike, and unable in turn to strike Israel.
This has been called maintaining Israeli "qualitative military edge," but it has left the Saudis a step back in any air war, unable to fully defend or to fully launch. The US for the same reasons will not now supply the gap to the Saudis.
The US itself was supposed able to supply that gap. How'd that work out? They can sort of bash at the helpless Yemen civilians, but they can't deal with Iran.
4
Are they examining the evidence, or trying to prove that it came from Iran?
Those two goals are mutually exclusive.
The one is an intelligence product using carefully honed scientific techniques.
The other is a political product, using data to fit a predetermined conclusion.
There was a time when it was QUITE CLEAR when it was one, and when it was the other.
In the Trump era, it is NEVER CLEAR.
And the beneficiary of course is Donald Trump, because he becomes the ultimate arbiter if truth.
Which is to say, a dictator in a failed state.
4
If the government or organization that committed this act of aggression can be confirmed with confidence, there should be a retaliatory strike by the Saudis.The US can provide a little “back office” support (intel, technology, etc.) but there should be no US plane, weapon or soldier seen by the public or the media.
3
I know, we and the Saudis are looking for Iran everywhere and nowhere.
But I think in this rush to judgement - we are relegating Yemen as an after thought.
But let's remember that they were the ones who financed and trained the so-called underwear bomber.
They were perfecting using Xerox cartridges as bombs.
We killed an American preacher who was living openly in Yemen but was advocating against us.
We also suffered casualties of sailors when one of our ships was attacked from the shores of Yemen.
And Yemen under the onslaught of Saudis - surely have a grievance to get back at them. And Saudis have created an enemy they did not have before.
They also recently launched missiles at Saudi airports in Riyadh and other places.
So, my contention is that Yemen has shown capabilities before - and they have grievance to exact revenge.
And knowing how little response was to their missiles at airports - not surprising - that they hit the oil facilities.
So, this hunt for Iranian finger prints may be premature.
As to some of these ex officials suggesting a "military response from America". - POTUS just got rid of a war monger.
And some of these folks are mouthing off what they may not counsel if they were still officials.
1
I know, we and the Saudis are looking for Iran everywhere and nowhere.
But I think in this rush to judgement - we are relegating Yemen as an after thought.
But let's remember that they were the ones who financed and trained the so-called underwear bomber.
They were perfecting using Xerox cartridges as bombs.
We killed an American preacher who was living openly in Yemen but was advocating against us.
We also suffered casualties of sailors when one of our ships was attacked from the shores of Yemen.
And Yemen under the onslaught of Saudis - surely have a grievance to get back at them. And Saudis have created an enemy they did not have before.
They also recently launched missiles at Saudi airports in Riyadh and other places.
So, my contention is that Yemen has shown capabilities before - and they have grievance to exact revenge.
And knowing how little response was to their missiles at airports - not surprising - that they hit the oil facilities.
So, this hunt for Iranian finger prints may be premature.
As to some of these ex officials suggesting a "military response from America". - POTUS just got rid of a war monger.
And some of these folks are mouthing off what they may not counsel if they were still officials.
I know, we and the Saudis are looking for Iran everywhere and nowhere.
But I think in this rush to judgement - we are relegating Yemen as an after thought.
But let's remember that they were the ones who financed and trained the so-called underwear bomber.
They were perfecting using Xerox cartridges as bombs.
We killed an American preacher who was living openly in Yemen but was advocating against us.
We also suffered casualties of sailors when one of our ships was attacked from the shores of Yemen.
And Yemen under the onslaught of Saudis - surely have a grievance to get back at them. And Saudis have created an enemy they did not have before.
They also recently launched missiles at Saudi airports in Riyadh and other places.
So, my contention is that Yemen has shown capabilities before - and they have grievance to exact revenge.
And knowing how little response was to their missiles at airports - not surprising - that they hit the oil facilities.
So, this hunt for Iranian finger prints may be premature.
As to some of these ex officials suggesting a "military response from America". - POTUS just got rid of a war monger.
And some of these folks are mouthing off what they may not counsel if they were still officials.
“American intelligence analysts and military investigators are examining a missile guidance mechanism recovered in Saudi Arabia that may provide clues as to the missile’s origins...”
Except, what they learn doesn’t matter. This Sharpie Administration will trash the results and claim whatever they need to say to meet their ends.
No longer can we assume our government is telling the truth until proven otherwise.
We must assume the Trump administration is lying unless independently provided evidence proves otherwise.
2
"covert cyber operations that could disable or disrupt Iran’s oil infrastructure"
There is a really bad idea.
Further reduce world oil supply.
Do so in a way that hands Iran the latest American ideas on cyber tools to cripple an oil industry. How could that ever come back at us, right?
2
"gathering information to make the administration’s case that Iran was responsible"
I'd hope they gather all the information, to determine in an objective fashion what really happened.
I suspect the NYT phrasing is more accurate description of the real effort, starting with a conclusion and searching for those bits of "evidence" that might support the conclusion.
An objective search would include intelligence intercepts likely to reveal false flag efforts, and parts on the ground inconsistent with the pre-conceived origins.
The miserable, biased efforts to "investigate" the tanker explosions do not reassure me.
5
We now see the impact of a President that has a reputation for lying...is there anything he could say that the American public will believe to support any kind of military action against Iran?
4
With all the directions except the Southwest which Yemen, it shows we don't know at this point where the attack came from. Yes, the weapons are Iranian. So Saudi weapons came from the U.S. Anyway, Trump seems to be more bark than bite and Iran and the rest of the world knows that.
The attitude that it couldn't come from Yemen is the same attitude as the Vietcong couldn't beat the U.S.
1
Funny that we are looking at the source of debris to determinate whether the Iranians flew the drones or someone else. How is that different from use of our weapons by others? Look at bomb parts in nearly any conflict, like Yemen, and you can find American parts. Somehow, it seems to be acceptable to us for others to use our weapons but not someone else to use the weapons of another nation. We need to beware of presidents trailing in the polls starting new military conflicts.
5
Saudi Arabia has like the third most expensive military in the world. There is no reason for the US to be involved in any way.
Anything else is a false pretense. Cue Dick Cheney to tell us all how we will be greeted as liberators.
8
Interesting timing as this administration tries to open the Tongas Wilderness to oil exploration....
4
Fifteen of the 9/11 bombers were Saudis. We still don't know who exactly foot the bill for the attack but many factors point to the Saudis. And now we are supposed to send our greatest asset in the world, our military, our brothers and sisters, to die for the Saudis? Either Trump is insane or on the hook for billions of dollars to someone connected to the regime. And the GOP is going along, further evidence that it is a disgusting shell of what it once was.
6
The only thing the US should do is stay out of this. If you really feel we need to do something - then let’s send each leader in that region a bone saw.
2
Did the Yemeni decide to bomb the US because they found out that most bombs used by Saudi Arabia to destroy and killed thousands of civilians were made in the US?
Had MBS stopped his war in Yemen that was characterized by the UN as crime against humanity, Iran or the Houthi would not have a reason to attack Saudi Arabia.
www.pollitis.com
4
What’s missing in all these comments on war/no war is that ONLY CONGRESS CAN DECLARE WAR. Good God, can’t anyone get this through the the brain of Americans and the media? The Fascist Trump does not have the right to push a button and commit us to war. What is wrong with the political and media elite? We scoff at Iran, but we are truly trying to become The Great Satan. After all, it’s American weapons killing 100,000 civilians in Yemen. A true American Patriot stands against this war insanity.
6
Examining missile and drone parts?
How about making up a story about missile and drone parts to fit whatever narrative is convenient?
4
"Investigators are hoping they can trace the missile’s flight path, using data in the guidance system, back to its origin — possibly to precise geographic coordinates."
Which is likely to be an empty patch of desert by now. There is a strange flatfootedness to the response so far. Maybe Iran knows we don't have the stomach for full-fledged war. And we don't. Nor should we. Perhaps by some miracle, Trump's imbecility will force U.S. into some measure of sanity and humanity in the Middle East. Nothing like putting a failed bully in charge to (eventually) make our limits clear.
1
Let me ask, “Why is the US examining anything?” I think I know the answer, and it has something to do with coming to the conclusions that war mongers would like to come to. The Republicans have been drumming for war with Iran since forever.
5
So, you can't trust US Intelligence, because trump told you so.
You can't trust Saudi Intelligence, because that is an oxymoron.
And the best defence systems that Saudi money could buy, did not seem to function.
Anything said by trump or his people simply cannot be believed.
They lie about the weather.
10
Donnie and the West Wing entourage await Saudi forensics on parts verification while Donnie spews benign child like utterances of military terms glorified in movies. "The Saudis have recovered pristine circuit boards from one of the cruise missiles that fell short of its target" Although we are told not to believe CIA,DOD,NSA,FBI, the DIA, as credible sources but, the Saudi's we are to believe. As for Lock and Load as I recall the Commands went something like this; Ready on the Left , Ready on the Right , Ready on the Firing Line, " Lock And Load" Commence Firing, Fire At Will ". The dim bulb "Doug-out Donnie" who probably shot "Maggies draws" thinks the words "Locked and Loaded" will strike fear into Iran, North Korea, and whoever else he seems to want to impress with his new found nomenclature and misplaced bravado. When will we begin to tell him " Adults use a significantly different vernacular to impress upon others the concepts and ideas regarding the use of military force". Donnie the Doofus is no better than a child trying to emulate his father the platoon commander. This is pathetic , and truly needs to stop, or the question begs to be asked " as Americans do we really want someone who talks like this representing us on the world stage. Sad. Lock and Load, Ladies and Gentleman , we're in for a bumpy ride.
4
Let the Saudi's fight this battle - we already sold them the weapons. We should not be obligated to fight it for them.
It's not like America has anything to gain from....right, vast and powerful multi-billion dollar private defense and infrastructure companies...right..right
4
given this administration to lie and present alternative interpretations for nearly everything can we trust anything coming from the Trump administration?
And let's not forget the willingness of, albeit a different administration, to fabricate, not provide known information and mislead the UN and our allies in order to justify the Iraq war.
4
Any pronouncement from Trump (who already crossed himself pretty badly) cannot be trusted as we all know that the relationship of the President to the truth is very tenuous. In addition, Saudi Arabia is not an ally of the US (they are responsible fro September 11 and Kashogi atrocities), which would not justify to put American soldiers lives at risk.
3
“Several American military and intelligence officials said they believed they would ultimately conclude that the attacks were launched from Iran.”
Starting an investigation with a conclusion is never a good idea.
And who are these investigators, who is controlling the release of what they discover, and why should we believe them?
5
Trump. Pompeo and Bolton did everything they could to destroy Iran's economy and their plan has been succeeding.
The destruction of Saudi oil production is Iran's way of saying they will fight back if we continue to destroy their economy
with our continuing punishment(sanctions)
Trump(and advisers) have unwittingly placed Iran in an unendurable situation where they are forced to take drastic , dangerous actions such as the destruction of Saudi Oil production.
The countries we are punishing (sanctions) are starting to fight back to our surprise.
Iran is hitting the Saudi oil fields and North Korea is not willing to give up its nuclear capabilities.
Trump and advisers hadn't planned on this resistance and find themselves troubled with their options disappearing.
The U.S. audacity of power seems to be losing its audacity.
2
Not our problem if Iran attacked the Saudis. The Saudis have weapons, money and people -- let them fight their own battles.
3
What a farce my country is. Are any iranian naval vessels off our coast? Are any Iranian drones conducting surveillance on our defenses? Do we need Saudi oil? The answer to all three questions is no.
So why are we sticking our nose into something that is totally not our business?
4
The US has been supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons for years. Can't the Saudis fight their own fight with Iran, particularly after the US has armed them to the teeth?
4
Why would we believe any of this? The intelligence services stopped being credible a long time ago, especially "as they continue gathering evidence to make the administration's case." The Saudis recovered "pristine" circuit boards? That's convenient. More likely they were pulled out of a closet somewhere, if they exist at all. The last time we swallowed stuff this bad, we invaded Iraq.
I'm tired of hearing about "the Russian threat." The American threat scares me a lot more.
3
To be transparent, UN inspectors must be involved
16
Not sure they’re considered a world authority on ethical standards.
2
@Just Wondering. How bizarre you think they aren’t political.
2
After the WMD scandal, do they still believe that other countries would believe us? Also, how can a sane person believe this president and his administration, if the president used a sharpie pen to change the weather map and his administration threatened a national scientific institution to force them defend the president's shapie lie?
12
Well let's think, who wants war between the US and Iran? Israel. who has advanced missile and drone capabilities capable of this precision? Israel.
14
History shows that more often than not such incidents are usually pure lies.
Seems like so many such “they attacked us” or “did that” incidents that have turned out to be pure lies.
Of course, the more recent is the “yellow cake” and Iraq.
One of the more famous ones was the German army and Hitler when attacking Poland.
And there’s many more.
Seems like more often than not any conflicts that start with clouded “justifications” are usually pure lies by the party that believes it has the military advantage, and prefers to use such advantage as opposed to negotiation.
8
I have seen this movie before. It is called the Iraq War. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
13
It's amazing that Saudi Arabia, with all their billions and billions in US military hardware, cannot defend the most obvious targets and high value assets on their soil from a low-tech drone/missile attack by 3rd rate enemies, and afterward have no idea where the attack came from or what to do about it. Maybe we need to sell them more jets, and maybe a defense system or two.
9
We haven't fought a justifiable war since WW2. I'm done "supporting the troops". Those who choose to fight an unnecessary war by invading a sovereign nation and killing its citizens deserve no support, only disgust. They get no sympathy if they are wounded, disfigured, killed or end up with PTSD.
2
Ok so yesterday this was a drone attack by pick up riding Yemeni rebels, who some how managed to direct a drone over such a huge distance and make pin point precise hits.
But today, they are precision guided cruise missiles and one of them was recovered in pristine condition.
They are also analyzing radar to see where they came from.
Yet we always hear that the US can detect a missile the second it is launched, anywhere in the planet. But now we do not know where these came from? Even when we have so much hardware in the area in case Iran does something dumb?
I guess that even when the entire area is probably the heaviest patrolled area in the world, we will never know if we are that stupid, or we are that incompetent.
7
Sigh...isn’t investigating to ‘bolster a claim’ a major logic fallacy? A source of bias?
We need more scientific minds in this world. Of course, what I call a scientific mind used to simply be called a ‘free thinker.’
11
Just like the vial with the white substance shown to the world before the Iraq war, Trump and Pompeo want to build their case for attacks against Iran by producing fragments of weapons with the "fake" Iranian markings that were supposed to have been used by the Yemenis.
Now, if the US foolishly attacks Iran based on false pretenses, the US and the Saudis will suffer too because Iran and the Iranian people will retaliate in order to inflict heavy losses on both the countries. Is that what Trump, Pompeo, Graham and pro-Israel lawmakers on both sides want?
Finally, the only way to stop the attacks on Saudi oil fields and installations is for the Saudis to stop bombing Yemen and killing innocent civilians. Also, it is time for the US to stop selling weapons to Saudis and UAE.
9
@azarn - ".... by producing fragments of weapons with the "fake" Iranian markings...."
There is no need for "producing fragments of weapons with the 'fake' Iranian markings". By now, the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia each have a collection of Iranian weapon, drone, and missile parts - some whole and some fragmented - from previous conflicts in the region.
1
What if the parts from the drones come from Russia? Will Trump go to Putin and ask him to stop supplying Iran weapons? I don't think so.
7
Right. I'm just wondering how long we're going to be forced to sit through this charade whereby American (why no international investigators?) intelligence authorities piece together enough information to implicate the Iranian government? "Aluminum tubes, Aluminum tubes!!" Trump has been far too eager to vilify Iran since his first day of office. Something is terribly fishy here.
12
“France has no information about where the attacks came from, and will continue not to have information, so long as it is convenient”. “What does it really mean to have information?” The french official said holding a cigarette and swirling a glass of wine. “These philosophical quandaries are much more pressing in our eyes, and we like them much more because they mean we have to actually do very little. “. In a later interview the same official was quoted saying “c’est le vie” unemphatically.
What if they find that the drone was American made? What then? Probably not hard to find one on the black market in that part of the world. OK, what do I know? What does anybody know. I do not see anyone around with whom I would trust.
6
The utter hypocrisy is for the US (and its lackeys-Saudi, UAE, UK, France) to blame Iran for this incident while continuing to arm those perpetrating crimes against humanity in Yemen - Saudi Arabia and UAE. This is in spite of US mercenaries providing all logistical support to the later so that they continue to perpetrate these atrocities. Do you for one minute think that there is no parity of justice in this world or that blowback is only OK when Russia or China deserve it (ala Hong Kong)?
5
Well, we can be sure they will find what they have been told to find.
6
@ARL Well, we can be sure they will find what Russia or Saudi or Israel have told Trump to find.
2
If Iran launched the attack, it is likely because the country has been backed into a corner because of Trump's dismantling of the nuclear deal codified by the Obama administration and the European Union, and harsh sanctions. Now Trump Inc seems to be at the "here-I-have-a-vial-of-anthrax" moment. Elect a clown expect a circus.
9
@David. But you didn’t object when Obama gave them a path to nuclear weapons.
@Jackson
Who says they have nuclear weapons? How do you know? And how far along are they? And maybe they would be farther developed if not for the original sanctions? Remember: Obama also launched a cyber attack on their centrifuge system. If I were you I wouldn't be so quick to defend the rudderless Trump foreign policy.
3
@Jackson It was Obama with the help of the Israelis that put their centrifuges out of business. Barrack was not a good actor.
The US military is not a hired gun for Saudi Arabia.
The Saudi’s have waged a merciless campaign on Yemen, while the US unilaterally left a nonnuclear proliferation treaty with Iran, though they were compliant.
Meanwhile, North Korea has made Trump look even more foolish by expanding their nuclear ambitions and testing in plain sight.
Keep the United States of America military out of the quagmire of Middle East wars. Stop selling weapons to fuel such wars.
Another Wag the Dog war in the Middle East will backfire on Trump and his cronies, just like the Iraq war.
That would be fine with me, but innocent lives will be lost for greed, corruption and show.
5
Why are they doing forensics after trump said it was Iran?
3
Of course the technology used in the attack on Saudi Arabian oil fields came from Iran as much as the weaponry used to kill civilians in Yemen came from the USA military. The message from Iran was clear Trump is trying to starve Iran into submission so he can prove withdrawing from Obama's deal with Iran was a great idea. The weapons used vs the Saudi oil fields demonstrated the damage low tech weapons can inflict and we have numerous military resources in the area at risk. Saudi and the USA have a lot to lose in a war with Iran ,of course we can bomb Iran and they can shut down Saudi oil biz. Does Trump want to send American lives into harms way while he golfs with billionaires in Mar-A-Lago feasting on cake and ice cream .
12
We are now reaping what Donald Trump has sown. He refused to accept that Iranians could restrain their nuclear ambitions and ignored the clear record that they were doing so. He has waged economic war on Iran and extorted our allies to do the same. He has lied repeatedly about almost every issue, but specifically about the veracity of US intelligence agencies. He embraced Saudi Arabia uncritically despite their proven record of spreading Sunni Islamic fundamentalism around the world, including those who have directly attacked the USA, and their proven malfeasance in murdering a US-based journalist. But all of this occurred in the context of our lies and atrocities in the Iraq war. And that followed our support of Iraq in their war with Iran. And that followed our imposition of the Shah on the Iranian people.
Some record.
11
Why is this an American problem?
It is not our military’s job to protect Saudi oil anymore than it is our job to protect North Korean fishing boats.
I expect the final intelligence report is just going to be an old Rand McNally map with a bunch of sharpie arrows and circles pointing at Iran. They’re trying so, so hard to justify starting another war.
9
Why is it the responsibility of the United States to forensically determine who it was that bombed a Saudi oil production facility? Shouldn't that be something for the Saudi government to do?
7
The truth is anybody and everybody can “examine the evidence” all they want, the public will never know the truth, whether the results are pure lies or not.
All the public can do is examine the motives of the parties.
Journalists “reporting” the motives are really little more than liars, too, or pawns at best.
Since “yellow cake” and Iraq, everybody knows the parties more often than not lie.
And this is especially so given that Trump is more often than not overwhelmingly lying about almost anything and everything.
Add to this the recent whistleblower question, and one also wonders whether it might have something to do with this specific event or is related in some other way.
So, unfortunately none of the parties here can be trusted, not even the journalists involved. The New York Times, too, helped sell the war in Iraq and would probably play along in any such gamesmanship again.
6
@Freak
Don't forget the Democrats, they will follow like the lemmings as they did in the case of Iraq. Republicans and Democrats are going to war bi-partisan.
This administration has ZERO credibility.
10
The Saudis and our military spending many nights at Trump's Turnberry resort in Scotland. Why are the Saudis spending all that money at Trump's resorts if not pay to play?
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/17/trump-scotland-turnberry-1499298
6
The USA has provided the Saudis with military weapons, training and consulting for years. This should continue. Nothing more. Except perhaps a reminder that the USA might have been able to be more involved if Mr. Kashogi was not assassinated by agents of MBS. That brazen act has made increasing support politically untenable.
5
If the drones/missiles were launched from Iran and crossed the Gulf into Saudi Arabia, there’s a big question about that. Why did none of the Aegis radars on the US Navy ships in the area detect them?
5
@Larry Roth
Depends on where the ship is stationed and the route and altitudethe cruise missile took.
It would be a mistake to tell an opponent about the capabilities of a radar system, and if it detected an attack.
1
@Larry Roth, cruise missiles do not need to fly in a straight path. Missiles could use Iraqi and Kuwaiti airspace, hugging the ground.
US air defences would be quite worthless against Iranian missiles already in the air. Like shooting a bullet with another bullet, only this bullet changes trajectory many times
1
@Larry Roth, cruise missiles do not need to fly in a straight path. Missiles could use Iraqi and Kuwaiti airspace, hugging the ground.
US air defences would be quite worthless against Iranian missiles already in the air. Like shooting a bullet with another bullet, only this bullet changes trajectory many times
1
Yet another reason to invest in renewable energy here at home. Keeps us out of foreign wars. Eliminates alliances with dictators and crooks. Keeps dollars here at home. Combats climate change and pollution.
7
The real questions are these: 1) if they do claim to have “ evidence” that Iran is to blame, who can believe them? When you have a regime that lies about everything all the time, you can’t trust a thing they say about anything. 2) even if they prove conclusively to everyone’s satisfaction that Iran actually is responsible, WHY IS THAT OUR PROBLEM?
5
@WesternMass
Because Trump needs an excuse to invade Iran, just as Bush needed an excuse to invade Iraq. And the intelligence services, UK and USA combined, provided it, as they always do.
1
The facts will not stop the preconceived conclusion....the 9/11-murdering Saudis will triumph in the end....and except for the pomp and ceremony their victims forgotten.
3
Why does anyone believe this? Iran attacking Saudi Arabia unprovoked makes as much sense as Sadam Hussein building nuclear weapons. How many times do we go to this dance before we realize we've been conned once again?
6
@Daniel Lamey
Why did the Houthis claim responsibility?
1
Dear NYT.....
Get your game on. How about interviewing members of Congress on both sides of the aisle and asking them if they plan to declare war or even allow a proportionate response to this attack? Also, please not the well researched WAPO article on which counties really get their oil from the House of Saud. They need to be the ones putting any response coalition together. Not the US. Not this time.
3
I do not understand why the war & mass murder that The Saudis have been carried out on Yemen is not talk about.
9
Fighting against a country like Iran is definitely not comparable to countries like Iraq - Syria - Yemen and Afghanistan, it should be remembered that force language will not work anywhere👍🏼
2
So...we sold all that expensive military hardware to SA and they can't manage enemies on their own? That is bigly sad, innit? The Americans...always chomping at the bit to find yet another lame excuse to start a war.
6
Now that trump and his crooked gang have perverted, compromised & poisoned nearly every federal institution, whatever conclusion these investigators come up with will have no credibility with the rest of the world.
5
We have given the Saudis enough weapons to defend themselves. If they are so stupid that they couldn't even defend their own oil fields. too bad. The last time our troops had to go to Saudi Arabia to defend Kuwait, those who were not Muslim had to hide their religious practices to please their oppressive regime. It is time that the world stops kowtowing to the Saudis for their oil. I would rather we help Venezuela to get back in business and end the domination of Saudi Arabia, the world's most backward society.
6
@S.L.
The US could not defend the WTC either, and they had the best weapons money can buy too. How good is the Israeli missile defense system, any better?
1
Why do I think this "attack" was staged from within?
Trump is a pathological liar that knows he will not be re-elected unless he does something crazy ... like throw this country into another war.
And the GOP will be more than happy to oblige.
And the corporate media will broadcast propaganda.
And the Trumpanistas will cheer.
And corporate dems will jump on the band wagon.
And the stock market will climb.
And MSB and Kushner will toast.
And Israeli hardliners will celebrate by shooting off a few rockets.
6
Let Saudi Arabia retaliate, they have a substantial military. Let both sides bomb each other's oil facilities. I will go buy myself my second electric car.
2
When the Houthis die from Saudi attacks that utilize weapons that were designed and built in the USA, and which the Saudis were trained by USA advisors to use, many place blame on the USA. With reason.
Conversely, if Iranian weapons acquired by the Houthis, and for which the Iranians trained the Houthis to deploy, were involved in this attack, Iran should shoulder a portion of the blame, commensurate with the USA blame for 90,000 Yemeni deaths.
Amazing that anyone would assert that the direction of a drone at the end of its trajectory is evidence of the origin of the drone. As if drones are incapable of making a turn in the middle of their flight path. Goodness gracious.
3
"To Find Clues in Saudi Oil Attacks, U.S. Examines Missile and Drone Parts"
If they find parts stamped "made in Iran", that is not definitive proof in today's world. Cynical view is that this was self inflicted to bump up oil prices making Saud and Russia happy; with the side benefit of fingering Iran and dragging the US back into mideast conflicts, adding Israel to the happy list.
Iranian weapons could have been captured by Sauds in Yemen, provided by Russia, etc. Have any third-parties been to the site to see how much damage was really done?
If Iran, you would think that they would be smarter than to execute an attack just before Israeli elections...
The whole episode does not pass the smell test.
2
If not Iran, who else could be inimical to United States' interests in the region?
1
Truly...I don’t care who did it. If the Saudis have a beef with Iran, let them fight it...leave us out of it.
6
maybe Israel did it and planted evidence to draw the US into war with Iran
4
It could be that parts of the drones were manufactured in Iran. But we also know that the idea of Saudi Arabia going to war against Yemen and Iran was spawned in Netanyahu's head.
So who is really responsible for this attack?
1
"Fake news fake news!" I don't trust one word from this administration on anything. This is the same group of people who lied about the size of Trump's inauguration crowd, his height and weight, that thing that's supposed to pass for hair on his head, the path of Hurricane Dorian, construction of Trump's Vanity Wall, and thousands of other things, both large and small. You can't cry wolf on so many petty things and expect the people to believe you on the big stuff.
5
U.S. Examining Missile and Drone Parts for Clues in Saudi Oil Attacks
"American investigators are gathering evidence to bolster their claim that Iran was responsible for attacking oil facilities in Saudi Arabia."
We gather evidence to bolster our claim. If that doesn't work for us, we say "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.".
Just lovely!
3
This all has "a just what Putin ordered" aspect to it, no matter what Trump does.
2
Notice when the two sides in the US political system can "come together? Trump, and the reaction to him, has made it obvious. Sure, he's a secret spy for Putin and erratic/unhinged, but he's great for war! How much cash you need this time, Donny?
2
Trumps comment of being "locked and loaded" in regards to retaliation against Iran should frighten every American. Trump "reacts without thinking or considering the consequences of his words". The last person who should have the red button at his disposal is Trump.
Who knows what Saudi Arabia is up to. You can't trust anything they say or do. We already know the Crown Prince lies (just like our President).
Trump should reconsider how his constant lying undermines his credibility with other world leaders. The world (and most Americans) see Trump as a fool and untrustworthy. Just as the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is seen as devious and a liar.
4
Gee, I wonder who are "the experts" who are doing the exam?
Surely same expert from Raytheon and Lockheed who sold the gullible Al Saud trillions worth of defective and faulty systems.
4
Insider info (top secret): all the parts came from the USA, and they were launched from the USS Abraham Lincoln on the orders of POTUS. Whom do you believe- me or Trump, Pompeo, and the top brass in the Pentagon?
1
I think those missile strikes were drawn in with a sharpie.
6
Why are we doing anything about the attack on Saudi Arabia? Did the drone his the U.S.? Did it hit one of our ships, installations, or personnel? No? You Americans...get back to work!
3
Hopefully the New York times has the courage to print this headline. United States supplies Saudi Arabia with arms and they kill thousands of innocent citizens, starvation and cholera on an unprecedented level. Iran supplies Houthi's I'm Yemen with drones that destroy oil fields. Who has the moral high ground?
4
Let’s understand this. The 9/11 attacks were orchestrated by a Saudi whose funding came from the kingdom. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi’s. Saudi funding of madrassa’s throughout the Islamic world are a key driver of jihadi culture. Public beheadings, amputations, eye for an eye retribution and crucifixion are practised every week in the kingdom. Women are stoned to death. In April of this year, a mass execution by beheading of 37 men took place; one was crucified, and another had his head impaled on a spike. Overwhelming evidence suggests that their ruler, MBS, ordered the killing of a US based Saudi journalist in the Saudi embassy in Istanbul.
And we are considering going to war to protect this kingdom? Oil makes for strange bedfellows.
5
I can’t wait to see the map with the drone trajectory scrawled with a sharpie.
5
I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out the missiles were manufactured in the USA, given the huge amount of weapons the USA sells in the Middle East and throughout the world. And what then? Would Trump officials admit it? I doubt it. I don't believe anything they say. And that's a sad thing, indeed.
6
A simple accounting of the foreign money that the Trump Organization has laundered in the past two decades will tell the tale.
p.s. Where are those pesky tax returns. It is almost as if Trump was hiding toxic waste from the American people.
7
The lead paragraph here is telling. US investigators are "... gathering information to make the administration’s case that Iran was responsible for last weekend’s attack against Saudi oil facilities."
In other words, we've reached our verdict; now we just need to find some proof. If this approach works so well domestically, surely it will work internationally in the purported minds of the Trump "decision-makers."
The United States has no business becoming involved here...Saudi Arabia has the third largest military budget in the world (behind the USA and China), spending five times as much as Iran on weapons. They spend more than the UK, France, Germany, Canada or Australia, our real allies who the Dotard mistakenly thinks might support us in another ME adventure.
If ever there was a time for us to cede center stage to those with real interests rather half-baked opinions, it's now. And we can't be manufacturing evidence.
5
It took the Saudis about a dozen men to murder and dismember one single Washington Post journalist in the embassy in Turkey. One would thing that, if they can spare a dozen to take care of one, they just might be able to invest more people and resources in A)protecting their oil production facilities and B) Being ready, willing, and able to fight any aggressor who destroys them.
Having the US help them defend themselves is one thing, but not even bothering to pretend to want to defend themselves?
What good is being a bigger oil producer than Saudi Arabia to us if we still have to fight for them – the guys who actually attacked us on 9/11. Why are we siding with A BIG LOSER, as a certain someone might say?
3
Lots of thoughts in this comment section, but I’m pretty sure the majority of the commenters share the opinion that the President and his administration lack the ability to handle this crisis skillfully.
8
A crisis he created.
5
"Michael Morell, a former acting director of the C.I.A., said in remarks at a speech in Northern Virginia on Monday night that if Iran was found responsible for directing or carrying out the attacks, that would amount to an act of war and the United States would “need to respond.”
Here we go. A low-polling, increasingly-desperate president. An upcoming election.
Wag the dog.
4
This is not our problem! Let the belligerent Saudis handle it in whatever way they choose, and we stay out of it.
6
Trump has caused the Iranian crisis, he thought threats and tweets would keep them in line, he doesn't want to start a war because of the 2020 election. I have no idea who fired the drones but Iran totally has the measure of a very weak hapless Trump who hasn't a clue what to do next.
6
why ? the agencies gathering evidence are useless and brainless, according to the guy who knows more about war-mongering drones than anybody ... why are we going to listen to intelligence analysts now, when stable genius has already told us they're without credibility ?
3
The Yemeni people are being bombed and starved by Saudi Arabia with U.S. support. Trump's pandering, in this case to Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia, takes precedence over any possible progress with Iran. In addition, his pathological aversion to Barack Obama is in play, so he had to wipe out any progress already made with Iran before 2016. 85,000. children had starved in Yemen as of November of 2018. Anything that would help to slow down or stop Mohammed bin Salman's slaughter in Yemen is o.k., regardless of the geopolitical chess being played.
6
It’s impossible that Iran proper did this. If I were to guess, the primary suspect would be Israel, not the Houthi rebels.
2
if the repairs jusr take a few weeks and cost just a few million but the 20 percent hike in oil prices persists for two months, then the saudis stand to make billions in profit versus the old prices.
so what are the chances the sauidis did this to themselves?
regardless , trump is torn between loyalty to mr bone saw and vlad the impaler.
the only consistent principle to guide our action in opec country is to do whatever improves US control over 400 billion barrels of oil reserves in the region AND prevents any single country besides ourselves from controlling it against us.
hence fomenting constant lowgrade warfare between all countries there is the result.
we cant abide a clear winner in any conflict as they might rise to dominate and unify the region
hence we NEED iran to keep the saudis in perpetual check.
and we wont respond to these attacks.
2
How will we now the truth? The Trump administration has lied about so many things, both big and small, that nothing they say can be believed without independent confirmation.
2
I suppose we're supposed to buy into everything coming from Washington despite a very large percentage of the nonsense we're feed is lie based hokum.
Sorry Washington, but not a lot of us trust you anymore.
2
I hate to be cynical, but no one was hurt, the Saudis will make a killing on the spike in oil prices, and all goes back to normal within a months’ time. Any retaliation against Iran would just be the icing on the Saudi cake. If Saudi Arabia thinks this is cause for a confrontation with Iran, have at it. We sold them enough weapons to make quite a bit of a ruckus. It is, however, sad to see that our leadership is more willing to spend billions of dollars on conflicts in which we have no business getting involved in instead of investing in repairing our infrastructure, and legislating for clean air and water. Our government’s priorities are aligned with countries that show us the money. When it comes down to risking the lives of our soldiers for this very reason, there needs to be a response by Americans that can be heard in the halls of Congress and the Twitter room of the White House.
303
@Bob Bascelli The Saudi's may have made some money on the oil price rise but they lost bigtime on this hit. They were on the verge of putting Aramco on the market just as this happened. The value of stock in Aramco is sure to have fallen drastically after it company's assets are shown to be so vulnerable in Saudi Arabia's neighborhood wars.
13
@Bob Bascelli
Hear, hear!!!
8
@Sfojimbo
The IPO hasn't happened and there are many in Saudi Arabia who don't want it to happen. The IPO does little to prove Saudi Arabia innocent.
Maybe it was 17 cruise missiles shot straight out of Iran or maybe the bone saw man's plan is completely bogus.
7
why is this major news that is above the fold with three stories? Maybe consider your role in the drumbeat to war this time before you rush into another disaster.
6
The Saudis finance terrorism. They knew about and likely played a critical role in planning and executing the 9/11 attacks. They’ve deployed their largesse to export violent, hardline Islamic ideology across the globe. They literally butcher political opponents and people who run afoul of sharia law.
They are not our friends. They’re our enemies.
14
@Michael
Agreed, Iran is not our friend. But neither is Saudi Arabia.
Should we be concerned that the Iranian serial numbers found on the drone components are drawn in black sharpie?
10
One of the drone parts has the word Iran written on it with a Sharpie. What more evidence do we need?
12
Here is the conundrum, what do we do about the attack on the Saudis?
Within the administration, there is much discussion over what retaliatory action to take, if any, and whether such a response would appear to be just doing the Saudis’ bidding.
If we attack the aggressor possibly, Iran, we will be doing the Saudi’s bidding. Uh, no we should not. The Saudi’s have billions in US equipment. They should do their own bidding. Period.
11
@DENOTE REDMOND
What do "we" do?
Nothing, of course.
What did SA do on 9/11?
The US allowed ONE plane to fly and pick up the remaining Bin-Ladens on the country, and ship them abck to SA.
4
If these drones originated in Iran, how could they have evaded the radar of the huge American naval presence in the Persian Gulf between Iran and Saudi Arabia?
11
@dr. c.c.
When you fly LOW, you avoid radar.
@matty I don't think you are aware of the amount of radar we have in the Gulf. And no one has suggested the ten drones flew low,
2
Can some NYT reporter provide some information on Saudi Arabia's military capabilities? Presumably they have bought enough hardware from us through the years to be able to use some if they feel the need. I'm still at the basic question of why this is a U.S. fight.
17
The fact of the matter is, an ally of ours that has spent many billions of dollars here.
*Invested in many U.S. companies
*Helped create many, many, jobs
*Provided oil to fuel our industries
Was viciously and insidiously attacked and we need to come to their help immediately.
The Iranian regime seeks to create a Shiite crescent all over the Middle East.
Iran not only threatens the destruction of Israel, but have actively supported many groups in the region which are causing destruction the likes of which has never been seen before.
*Chemical weapons attack violations
*Marine barracks that were attacked
*Support for militant groups in Asia
We have a choice to make right now.
*Appeasement which only emboldens
*Even harsher economic sanctions
*Conflict, leading to regional stability
I believe that a strong coalition of countries will easily bring Iran to account.
Iran has already been severely weakened by sanctions and war with Iran will be an easy victory.
2
Yeah, it would be a "cakewalk". Like Iraq? And where are you going to get a "strong coalition of countries" to support your warmongering? Must we really support Saudi Arabia in their continuing war crimes in Yemen? This pleases you?
10
@James
Saudi oil fuels EUROPE, not America.
War with Iran will be like fighting a war in the rocky mountains. Not easy, not cheap, not quick.
3
@James
"We have a choice to make right now."
But you left out a few options, Jimbo ...
ie: NONE OF THE ABOVE!
4
Let us mellow down our interference in other counties and be part of NATO in the policing and support the UN. Let’s stop the Romantic swooning over Saudis, they have been trouble. Iran has a better educated population. I don’t see Iran involved in chopping up dissidents or attacks on Women and Children. Its time we kissed and made up with Iran!!.
11
This is what happens when you have a president that simply has no idea, not a clue, as to how to play the international game. Even worse, he takes no advice from anyone.
What this country now has is the absolute worst poker player that ever sat in the oval office. (Well, maybe more accurately, sits on his bed and tweets all day long and just comes downstairs to the oval office for photo ops. ) Not one of our foreign policy problems has moved an inch toward resolution.
Instead, the mullahs, the Russians, the Iranians, the Houthis, the Afghanis, the Pakistanis, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, the North Koreans, the Chinese, the Venezuelans, the Iraqis, the Israelis, the Brazilians—they all just give Trump the raspberry (there's a more accurate word) and do what they want to do.
Trump has tweeted away American power, moral or otherwise, and we can no longer influence events of any kind. His saber rattling is a sad diplomatic joke.
We know it. And so does the rest of the world.
11
This is what happens when a President acts responsibly and only says it looks like Iran was the cause, takes no military action but continues the investigation. If an unsubstantiated news source had made this accusation and it was adverse to Trump or a conservative, it would have been accepted as fact without checking the rest of the story.
I remember a president who started a war against Iraq based on nonexistent biochemical weapons. This doesn’t make Trump worse or better, just equally bad.
1
So if Iran disrupted Saudi Arabia's ability to export oil, that would be an act of war to which the United States would "need to respond."
So the United States pulled out of the JCPOA, which Iran was adhering to, and disrupted Iranian oil exports via sanctions and threatening our allies from going around these sanctions.
As a casus belli, this doesn't exactly have the bright shining clarity of Pearl Harbor or 9/11. Maybe the difference is between using drones and crushing nations with overwhelming financial power. First one bad, second one good? (Did anyone die in the attack?)
I get it: Iran has nasty people in it (welcome to the Middle East!) But sorry, not our fight. If Saudi Arabia decides they want to go to war alone, then good luck to them.
8
"Let the Saudi's fight their own war!" tweeted Trump while Obama was president.
16
Saudi Arabia has been bombing Yemen non-stop, killing tens of thousands of civilians, and no one says anything. Now the chickens come home to roost. Their oil facilities get hit (by the way, no reported casualties) and the warmongers want war immediately on the flimsiest evidence. We must resist!
9
Of course you are correct. Strangely I haven’t heard a peep about those deaths by the Democrat candidates for President. Maybe it’s because the military action began while Obama was President and was joined then by the US.
Fragments of American and British made bombs are all over Yemen. Should we hold the USA and UK accountable for the genocide being committed in Yemen? Saudi Arabia with the blessing of Western power has been bombing schools, hospitals, wedding ceremonies in Yemen for 4 years. American bombs fragments are all over ruined Yemen. Aren’t Houthis Yemenis? Aren’t they entitled to defend themselves? I am sure the Western powers would not sell defensive arms to them. So, where do they have to go to buy arms to protect their children from the American made bombs?
12
@Richard Horowitz absolutely correct ...
2
Let's consider if Saudi Arabia has any internal or external enemies..... hmmm..... that would want to show what they can do. Then, consider if those people have friends with technology or resources to help out.....or maybe they don't even need extra help, they just needs some freelancers whose work has slowed down in Syria or a Former Soviet Republic.... or Iran.... or Yemen..... lots of usual and unusual suspects, at the moment.
1
If Iran could hit the Saudi Arabian oil terminal with multiple cruise missiles, they could probably hit an aircraft carrier. That would be embarrassing for commander in chief bone spurs, and not showing how he's keeping America great again.
5
@DitchmitchDumptrump
It’s not just a carrier, it’s a carrier group, consisting of a dozen supporting attack watercraft and submarines.
Good luck getting America into a war with Iran over Saudi Arabia. That’s something normal Americans will all rally behind: to protect the oil interests of a murderous dictatorship.
5
Whatever they find —nobody is going to believe them. Not in the US, not abroad. This is called zero credibility
11
Senator Lindsey Graham wants trump to bomb Iranian oil refineries. I guess we should rename our sitting-duck aircraft carrier now in the Persian Gulf the “USS Lindsey Graham,“ because it WILL be hit in response.
5
even if the trump administration claims they find iranian missile parts, are we supposed to believe them after all the lies they have told??? they have been trying to find a fake reason to go to was with iran for months now.
8
Oh, never mind. The evidence will never be conclusive. Just blame it on Obama and move on to get some tweeting done.
5
New investigatory process: study the clues to prove your preformed hypothesis. (Investigators look to bolster administration's assertion.)
Just like hurricanes....
With allies like Saudi Arabia who needs friends? Oh, right, we've alienated all of those. SA is NOT our friend. 9/11 was committed by majority Saudis.
And, great....SA might pay us financially for fighting.....we're a mercenary force now?
Besides, our great leader lies all the time. Why should we believe him?
12
Oh, I see it all now! The USA can supply, for lots of case, the Saudi's with all the modern weapons of war that they want, and they can use them to murder thousands of Yeminis, but the Iranians can't give the Houthis weapons to attack the Saudis in an attack that didn't result in any deaths. Sure, that's fair, in a pigs eye.
It is all about money with DT, not patriotism, not humanity, not morality or ethics, just money, money, and money.
We are doing the wrong thing supplying the Saudis with the weapons to terrorize Yemen, and if the people in the Congress had any courage of integrity whatsoever they would put a stop to it. But, they have none.
11
Is Saudi Arabia part of the United States? I’m so confused.
11
It doesn’t matter what US intelligence finds, the stable genius has already made up his mind. He’s just waiting for his marching orders from the Saudis and Bibi.
8
Wouldn't the US fleet in the Gulf have the technology to spot these incoming drones while in flight? Isn't that why they are there? Are our drone / missile detection and defense systems this vulnerable? Iran may have made part or all of these drones, but how could they have launched them from Iran without our detecting them?
2
@Mags the US fleet launched those drones, on the order of Trumpelstilskin and his puppet masters.
1
"... if Iran was found responsible for directing or carrying out the attacks, that would amount to an act of war and the United States would "need to respond.""
Even if it's the case why do WE need to respond? I don't see why we need to take it personally and unilaterally jump into a war.
17
Short of a computer showing the flight plan, The parts will only show it was made in Iran, not fired from Iran. Bombs dropped by the Saudi's were made in the US but not fired by the US.
11
@GUANNA, I wouldn't be surprised if they find that some of the drones were made in China.
1
@UncleLarry17 parts manufactured in China, assembled in the USA, launched from USS Abraham Lincoln.
1
Mossad? After all, Israeli elections are now. Bibi needs the boost a little scare can spur.
After WMD who can believe anything about the Middle East? The entire region is perfidious and none of our business. A plague on ALL their houses!
3
We are already on a slippery slope here: "U.S. Examining Missile and Drone Parts for Clues..."
Why does the US need to examine this, especially in a public fashion? We know how this ends. It's a Saudi issue. Let them handle it, or not handle it, or whatever they choose to do. Let them spend their untold billions on figuring out what happened and what to do about it. They'll get the oil out one way or another -- believe that.
11
Any good investigation of a crime starts with
Cui Bono
To whose benefit ?
Trump is very reluctant to get the US into a military confrontation with Iran. Israel is not
Indeed it has been the goal of Israeli policy for over a decade to get the US to take out the nuclear facilities in Iran that Israel sees as deadly threat to her existence.
As to motive and means: Israel has both
That leaves the timing: The attacks to place a few days before the Israeli elections - one that Bibi needs to win.
A man , who is willing to do what ever it takes to continue as PM
11
@Lars good call. Look at the pictures. Every tank was hit in the exact same spot. The Israelis are both showing off to those that know and giving the rest of the world an excuse to fight with Iran.
2
".....as they continue to gather information TO MAKE THE ADMINISTRATION'S CASE...."
So if they find information which is not compatible with the Trump Administration what will be come of that? Ignored like everything else Trump does not like?
Our lying and self-serving POTUS has NO credibility about anything. And as we have witnessed recently, our intelligence agencies and US military are no longer independent entities serving the Constitution. They do what Trump tells them to do.
A pointless exercise to please Trump does not make a strong foundation upon which any of our remaining allies should join us.
Big oil money and the US military/industrial complex will flex their power regardless of the facts.
5
After the retaliation, what will the blow back be, and where will it happen?
A swarm attack by land based cruise missiles or inflatables against a U.S. Naval surface warship or air base in or near the Persian Gulf is every service person's nightmare.
The Revolutionary Guards may hit soft targets overseas, as in Argentina. Can a drone attack be launched within the US today? An islamic Oklahoma City?
I wish I could have faith in the people making the political decisions.
It seems that the Saudis should be interested in learning who attacked their facilities. Having US investigators "prove" this administration's knee jerk claims makes about as much sense and is well more wasteful than having NOAA stand by Trump's flawed and repeated claims that Hurricane Dorian was heading to Alabama.
5
False narratives will abound from the Trump Administration, but a deeper dive into the circumstances surrounding attacks on oil storage facilities must include who could benefit from the US direct intervention. My suggestion: Israel.
The drones which attacked the oil facilities had to be made with sophistication and capable of carrying suitable destructive mass to create this destruction. What nations in the world have such technology? Who would be most likely to export drones and arm them with suitable ordinance? What would be the flying radius and means of control of the flight path?
Like all things uttered by the Trump Administration, never believe what you are told by this Administration. They either don't know the facts, or are making up the facts as they go.
3
Once again I don't understand. If this is an "act of war" by Iran against Saudi Arabia, two theistic monarchies with no attachment to democracy by either, why would we have any "need to respond?"
5
Parts of weapons?
Everyone knows that Iran provides weapons, just as everyone knows the US provides weapons and the Russians provide weapons, and China, and UK, and Germany, and Italy....
Who FIRED the weapons.
4
Shouldn't it be Israel that takes on the job as Saudi Arabia's protector: not the United States? After all it is Israel that has led Saudi Arabia into the conflict with Iran.
5
The pattern is now obvious to everyone: Something happens, President Trump jumps out in front immediately with threats and bluster but with few or no facts, his opponent holds firm, he backs down.
Now Iran is going beyond holding firm to issuing terms: "We'll only talk to the U.S. if it rejoins the nuclear deal, and even then as just one of the nations party to the deal."
The U.S. isn't used to being treated this way -- especially by nations it regards and treats with contempt.
As with Iraq's WMDs, U.S. "officials" are now building a case for striking Iran in service of an agenda. This is how a weak, incompetent and insecure leader can be just as dangerous as a strong, determined and capable one when it comes to starting wars.
5
Does Saudi Arabia not have any intelligence analysts? It's one of the richest nations in the world and the US has to do everything for them. Trump throws a fit over his perceived belief that European nations don't pay enough into NATO yet he'll pour money into oil rich Saudi Arabia.
5
A writer for Daily Kos argues that if the drones did come from Iran and could get past US surveillance unnoticed then there is a massive hole in our own security defenses.
In any case, as many have pointed out, it would be naive to take what the Trump administration concludes at face value. This is a complicated situation with considerable potential for manipulation for political purposes by all the players. At bottom however war with Iran would be disastrous for the Middle East, the US, and the world. Iran is more populous, more organized and militarily stronger than Iraq was when the US invaded it - and look how that turned out.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/9/17/1885977/-If-the-Saudi-attack-was-launched-from-Iran-America-has-a-lot-more-to-worry-about-than-oil?utm_campaign=trending
3
None of this matters. This is NOT our problem. Let Saudi Arabia deal with it.
3
This is a total wag the dog type situation, Iraq War redux. The Saudis have declared that Iran did it and has tasked the American government to come up with the evidence? How is this our problem?
3
"Michael Morell, a former acting director of the C.I.A., said in remarks at a speech in Northern Virginia on Monday night that if Iran was found responsible for directing or carrying out the attacks, that would amount to an act of war and the United States would “need to respond.”"
Destroying oil production facilities in Saudi Arabia, a bastion of values and ideals that Americans treasure, is an "act of war" against ... the U.S.? Huh?
6
What about "examining the evidence" of US ordinance and support of Saudi bombing of innocent civilians in Yemen? How can we be so hypocritical?
2
"...that would amount to an act of war."
It likely would...but against who? Saudi Arabia. Not the U.S.
3
After saying it was Iran, they are now examining the evidence. I bet I know the conclusion.
3
Why would US need to respond?
"Michael Morell, a former acting director of the C.I.A., said in remarks at a speech in Northern Virginia on Monday night that if Iran was found responsible for directing or carrying out the attacks, that would amount to an act of war and the United States would “need to respond.”"
1
When did Saudi Arabia join NATO? Where's the stipulation that an attack on SA will be defended by the USA?
3
"..that may provide clues as to the missile's origins and flight path..."
"Hey, Mulvaney! Bring the Atlas and a fresh Sharpie to the Oval Ofiice right away!"
5
There is a certain kind of political man who feels that his career is not historically secure and his manhood not psychologically settled until he's prosecuted and presided over the inferno and destruction of the Dogs of War. Such men, like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Barack Obama, Margaret Thatcher and Hillary Clinton, view the escalation, enacting and continuation of these wars in the Middle East as challenges to their mettle and tests of their leadership.
Their political philosophies and views of public policy issues, however nuanced and elaborate they might delude themselves to be, are actually just feel-good blather used to feed the public, like bread crusts one throws to the pigeons in the park. At the deepest level, these folks are animated by a lust for power and coercion, and if if opposed, they think it quite natural and logical to pull out the Tomahawk Cruise Missiles and laser guided bombs.
They never really pause to consider that in historical context, the bulk of the national treasure is being used not build a better future for ourselves and humanity, but rather to proliferate the complex techno-industrial apparatus used to exterminate our fellow human beings.
World War I was rooted in the same vainglorious mythology, that somehow honor may be obtained from the bloody slaughter of mostly innocents. We may have mastered the intricacies of much of the material universe, but we still glory in exposing our canines and thrashing the "enemy,"
4
Putin is assisting Iran with their attacks on Saudi oil refineries.
Putin has ordered Trump not to retaliate.
More attacks are coming. Not just in Saudi Arabia.
Putin is playing us all.
Disrupt the world. Crash the world economy.
Crash America's economy.
Putin is behind this.
Trump is his loyal (what choice does he have) lackey.
2
A team of American technicians are on their way to Riyadh to show the Saudis how to use all the defense equiptment we sold them.
A team of 60 Pakistani pilots are being rented from Pakistan to man the F-15s Saudi Arabia bought from us.
A recent spike in domestic violence against women has been reported throughout the Kingdom.
3
So, it is the duty of the US to punish the aggressor? Thank goodness no-one saw fit to punish us for, say, Iraq.
4
Just shoot 60 cruise missiles into the desert somewhere and call it a day.I don't mean to be cynical but I live in a small town in Michigan and I seem to know who did it before the Pentagon how is that?
No matter where the drones originated, the game changer is that these new drones are being manufactured and deployed.
Having the Middle East explode benefits mostly Putin, who was seen sipping vodka, puffing a Cuban cigar and giggling madly.
Maybe the EU can find a path forward.
Trump is clearly over his head with this one.
2
OK.. if this is the way the US wants to move the rhetoric over the attack....
Then....
An analysis of bomb fragments in Saudi attacks on Yemen civilians would clearly show that they are US bombs.. and as such.. under the same rhetorical posing.... the US is responsible for the bombing death of innocent civilians in Yemen.
Now.. can we get off the nonsense here and just move on?
Clearly Iran is sending arms, including drones and other high tech arms, to the rebels in Yemen fighting against the Saudi incursion. Just like the US is sending arms to the Saudis, to enable them to continue to prosecute civilian genocide in conjunction with their attempts to suppress Yemen rebel groups.
2
Anyone who does not believe that the "missile" parts will be identified as "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?
2
I guess it's all good then. The "US Investigators are trying to look for involvement of Iran". That's always a good premise to get to the truth. Try to validate your assumption. Science 101. But then again, this is the Trump administration. Science is a scam anyway.
3
Well here we are, at the point every thinking American was worried about: the point where there are real, actual, national security, life and death stakes, and we have a president that can’t be believed. He squandered every bit of the credibility that the office of POTUS is supposed to have, and now we don’t have any idea whom
to believe or whether we are about to enter another war based on lies and profit motive rather than the national interest.
Trump has so damaged the office that war is now a partisan issue. I don’t blame him, he is obviously a mentally sick man. But his supporters are responsible and should be ashamed.
1
Sounds like they’re not really following the evidence, but leading it towards a certain goal. Either way, this is a manufactured conflict. Iran was meeting it’s end of the deal, till Trump introduced his incompetence and ignorance. And as the Afghanistan and North Korean debacles show, Trump can’t really be trusted, let alone his incompetence and ignorance. And neither can the Saudis be trusted, they’re as despotic as the Iranians, if not worse.
3
"American Investigators are gathering evidence to bolster their claim that Iran was responsible for attacking oil facilities in Saudi Arabia"
is an example of the 'Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy" or cherry-picking data that supports a desired outcome, while ignoring other data.
see: https://www.bayesianspectacles.org/origin-of-the-texas-sharpshooter/
So here we are being asked to trust and believe a President that has given us no reason to do so since he was a candidate. Even his fans and rally-goers know down deep that their believing Trump is a kind of fun, a way to upset his “enemies” (the majority of us). They know he lies but the lies are entertainment.
We’ve been lied into wars before, but never by a President who has firmly established himself as a compulsive liar. Interesting, horrible times.
1
I sure hope that possible self sabotage by the Saudi Arabians is investigated. They could have done this for the price of oil and to help deplete the worlds oil stocks that are at their highest level in history. Never mind the chance to pin it on their enemy Iran. I’m at a loss at why no one is bringing this scenario up at all.
7
@Jason White this also helps american fracking interests like the koch bros. i wouldn't be surprised if this was an inside job designed to justify a war with iraq. trump's people probably see a war as his only hope of reelection.
1
Another reason why we need to rapidly expand renewable energy so fossil fuels can just remain in the ground.
6
This was a large scale attack. How did Saudi air defenses not defeat it?
A few questions:
1. Were Saudi air defenses, e.g., Patriot missile batteries, deployed in the area?
2. If deployed were air defense systems operational?
3. If operational did they detect the attack?
4. If the attack was detected were countermeasures deployed to attempt to defeat it?
5. If countermeasures were deployed then why did they fail?
24
@Chris G
it is a question I've raised repeatedly and the fact that it hasn't been raised in any media discussion is troubling.
the Saudis raised concern of drone attacks four months ago.
there are technologies to intercept and defeat drones widely available and yet the Saudis didn't deploy it around their oil facilities—hardly credible to think—or it was disabled.
Yemeni rebels claim to have had help from "within the Kingdom" in their successful attack.
8
@teoc2 There is bureaucratic irrationality. Defense of infrastructure is controlled by the Ministry of Interior, which doesn't have the fancy tech the military has. See e.g. https://twitter.com/becca_wasser/status/1173605311212601345
Here is a sad fact, proven though thousands of years of history:
Any nation that wishes to go to war with another nation, even in the face of severe disagreement by it's population... can and will find pretext (even creating it if need be, out of thin air) to go to war.
That this can happen in the US (and has, as recently as the second Iraq war) demonstrates how very corrupt to the core our country is. War IS big business for the military industrial complex, and if they are not working behind the scenes to cause direct pretext for US military action, they are doing so in other nations and then influencing the federal government to sell arms to support the long and destructive conflict that results and the lives lost for profit.
9
Isn’t there enough blood in the soil? The eagerness of warhawks worries me and the willingness for Saudis to sacrifice our service members’ lives for continued cheap oil and profits worries me, not to mention the lack of historical awareness our president has.
We still have thousands of troops and equipment in the region.
We still spend millions daily.
Is this another conflict that bolsters the efforts to manufacture a second term?
Who benefits and why should be questions that we ask our leadership.
As a citizen and veteran, I’m tired, very tired of this.
11
This process is certainly not the correct way to do things. Why investigate first and then draw conclusions?
2
The attack had little to with the regional conflicts and was set in motion by Iran for purposes of economic and political disruption in the United States. The oil markets initially overreacted but have now calmed so beyond burning up billions of dollars of crude the effort failed. We have no reason to retaliate except through continuing to squeeze Iran economically.
3
@Frunobulax..why are WE retaliating?? None of our soldiers died, nor was the attack on US soil. If we didn't retaliate when Jamal Ahmad Khashoggi was butchered why should we now?? Your willingness for retaliation once again shows how blind Americans are to all the US has done in the Middle East.
2
@Frunobulax And exactly why are we squeezing Iran economically?
2
We are NOT going to war for those oil fields. And we should not support any further war effort on the part of the Saudis against either Iran or their Houthi proxies.
The Saudis brought this on themselves with their morally bankrupt foreign policy, and we are not going to be dragged into their conflict.
8
Putin and Trump should encourage a sustained war between Iran and Saudi Arabia, while Russian and the US sell them endless weapons. By the time they annihilate each other, and have transferred all their wealth to us, we (US/Russia) will have the opportunity to dominate the oil/gas markets for decades.
Now there’s the deal if the century.
8
The US had many chances to just leave Iran and its people alone
1) In 1953, Iran had a democratic parliament. Its leader Mohammad Mossadegh moved to nationalise the country's oil resources. This was unacceptable to Great Britain and the US who toppled Mossadegh in a coup. The Shah was elevated from his ceremonial position to that of a dictator. His secret police - the SAVAK - was trained by the CIA and was known for gouging out the eyes of political opponents.
2) Before arming Saudi Arabia or even Iraq, the US armed Iran under the Shah. At the time of the revolution, the Shah was spending billions on combat aircraft and even wanted an aircraft carrier. But 50% of Iranians remained illiterate while he had grandiose plans for military expansion and lived an opulent lifestyle. High unemployment and inflation following the collapse in oil prices exacerbated public anger.
3) In the whole scheme of things, the detention (and release) of a few hostages doesn't justify US behaviour towards Iran. To settle scores, the US endorsed Saddam's war of attrition against Iran. It lost a far higher percentage of its population than the US during WWII. The US gave intel - with Reagan's direct authorisation - about the whereabouts of Iranian infantry to Iraq, knowing they would likely be targeted with mustard gas, banned under the Geneva Conventions.
4) An Iran Air passenger plane was shot down over the Persian Gulf by the USS Vincennes, killing 200+ civilians including children.
19
@Jack Thank you for this excellent breakdown of incidents Americans either don't know are refuse to know. The US accuses Iran of being evil and a proponent or terrorism, when historically, we have been all of what we accuse.
4
Would it matter if Iranian-made drones or missiles were fired from Yemen?
Where's the "concern" when American-made fighters launch from Saudi Arabia and destroy civilians as well as structures in Yemen? No need to even look for "clues."
16
Remarkably the US is now energy independent.
China however needs tremendous amounts of oil/gas.
China is the biggest customer of Saudi Arabia.
Let’s let China sort this out and let the US sit this one out.
10
To me it seems crystal clear, the "oranges" of the drones were from the Hutu rebels and right now Saudi is fighting with the Hutus. So why don't the Saudis send their fighters to battle the Hutus a lot more? Do they have bone spurs syndrome too?
3
@TheniD
Well, the Hutus might have escaped to Rwanda while you were writing the witty comment!
1
How many governments do we having working on this in the United States? Already heard 3 different versions of this yesterday and now we seem to have Trump reversing course and another faction in our government now taking a more measured investigative approach. How in the world are we ever to believe these turkeys in Washington at this point?!
7
Irrespective what the evidence shows: this was not an attack on the US, but on the Saudi's who are waging a brutal and inhumane war in Yemen - with weapons supplied by the US, in spite of Congress's opposition. Let the Saudi's deal with it. This is not worth American lives.
11
One can only wonder if we'll have a replay of WMD. What incredibly fond memories! Some of us actually remember how all that turned out.
6
So let me see if I have this straight.....
The United States and Saudi Arabia have been interfering in a civil war between the Shia Houthis and the Sunni Yemeni government since 2009 with thousands of civilian casualties.
The United States has formal defense treaties with neither Saudi Arabia nor Yemen.
We ALLEGE that Iran is providing support to the Houthis.
WHAT exactly makes our position legitimate and Iran's position illegitimate?
WHAT exactly is the United State's role and WHO will attacking Iran benefit?
Remember: most of the 9-11-2001 attackers were Saudi Arabian nationals. NONE of them were Iranian.
Get us OUT of this conflict NOW!
26
@faceless critic Fully agree, also none of 9-11 attackers were from Iraq nor Iraq had any WMD. all made up for the second and complete invasion and us (US tax payers) have been funding endless and illegal wars. Not to mention the human costs of these wars for our people as well as everyone else.
4
Why is the U.S. looking into this? Shouldn't that be the purview of the Saudis? Or are we the protector and guardian of the fiefdom? In which case, are we getting a good deal? Are they "cheating us", as Mr. Trump claims and crows about our former, more-true allies?
4
@miller
'Or are we the protector and guardian of the fiefdom?'
Remember, MBS is Jared's bosom buddy. Trump is like a daddy to both of them.
2
Iran has thousands of years experience fighting wars and probably they are the ones already locked and loaded. If the Saudis attack, even with Trump's help, Riyadh and other cities will be turned into ruins. They should back off attacking Yemen and starving their families.
The US should be smart and stay out of this. Trump should've heeded Congress' demand about selling them more weapons. But seems he is more interested in his own pocket than our nation's.
4
Where is the independent investigation?
This smacks of "Round up the usual suspects."
6
The United States of America, by all appearances Saudi Arabia's lap dog, appears on the precipice of sacrificing American lives and dollars by engaging in a fight they can not win any more than their incursions into Afghanistan or Iraq.
No other nation is going to join in this folly if it launches. Another nail in the coffin that is the end of the (very short) American empire.
9
Are these the same intelligence analysts that Trump said need to "go back to school"? The ones he says can't be trusted?
6
I’m pulling for Iran. Saudi Arabia is vile and Trump declared economic war on Iran after a landmark arms deal. Iran is doing exactly what any sovereign nation under attack would do. Go Iran!
11
Trump has taught us not to believe what our government agencies say as they are all the deep state.
4
If NATO forces respond, will Trump insist that Saudi Arabia pay its fair share of the costs?
3
When Trump pulled out of the Iran Nuclear Deal 5 plus 1 (US, China, Russia, UK, France and Germany) and brought back crippling economic sanctions, he accomplished two things:
He gave Iran Carte Blanche to do what they pleased, no longer threaten by the return of sanctions and the possibility of better relations with the West gone. They have enriched Uranium past the restrictions of the deal, probably attacked oil tankers and the Saudi oil fields, kidnapped oil tankers and will increase their harassment of our allies in the region. They have very little to loose.
He also took away any possible influence we had over Iran. Our options now are: A war, which the Iranians seem willing to take on, knowing it will be very unpopular, costly and will not be backed by our traditional allies. The other is to do nothing and allow Iranian harassment to continue.
Seems to me that it's the Mouse that has the Cat cornered...
166
@Jgrau
Who is really harassing whom?
Our government needs a little more time to manipulate public opinion to support a military attack on Iran, Iraq all over again. Of course, the conman in Washington only wants peace, that is why he broke the agreement with Iran.
15
@Jgrau
When Obama paid Iran a kings ransom, he made it possible for them to restart their weapon program with our money.
2
@AutumnLeaf
Not your money or US money. It is their money ... part of the deal to return Iran's money US held.
And they restarted because we pulled out of the deal, not because they had their money back.
31
"...that may provide clues as to the missile's origins and flight path..."
Flight path matters, but hard to understand how damaged guidance mechanisms are more telling than our global and local surveillance (ground installations and satellites). Do we really not have any idea of flight paths recorded from the actual launch or flight?
But investigating origin doesn't advance any intelligence or help determine future action - does anyone think the missiles were manufactured by rebels? And what if they were? Even if (as is likely) they were produced by Iran, how is that relevant to "proving" who initiated this specific attack? The Saudi-Yemeni War has been by proxy for years...
1
As with the rationale for war with Iraq, the US does not really need to look for clues, but only needs to present completely fabricated "evidence" to garner popular support. Presenting a false narrative for war to prop up presidential ratings is, as stated in (the starting to look less and less like satire but more like reality) Dr. Strangelove, "requires only the will to do so." Our dear leaders have shown more than once that lying us into war is a time-honored American tradition.
9
Even if the evidence proves beyond any doubt that Iran is responsible for the attack, why is it the USA's responsibility to retaliate? Saudi Arabia is a sovereign nation and responsible for its own defense. How is it in the strategic interest of the USA to take military action against Iran? Perhaps if the USA had not been conducting unrelenting economic warfare against the Iranians, hardliners there would not be lashing out. Our foreign policy is in dire need of adult supervision.
13
@John Warnock:There is a decision to blame Iran. No one is looking for the crimes of Saudi Arabia, because of the Saudi oil. At the time of the US invasion of Iraq, the pretext of WMD was not found after mass destruction and WMD. History seems to be repeating itself to excuse and wage war on Iran.
1
First paragraph itself clarifies that; Administration has already decided that it's IRAN. Now they're looking to find clues to match their conclusion. (Too bad Trump couldn't change the name of North Carolina to Alabama to ensure that he was right about Hurricane)
"American intelligence analysts and military investigators are examining a missile guidance mechanism recovered in Saudi Arabia that may provide clues as to the missile’s origins and flight path, as they continue gathering information to make the administration’s case that Iran was responsible for last weekend’s attack against Saudi oil facilities."
10
For goodness sake do not share the findings with DJT. He’ll end up blurting it out on twitter or sharing it with his boss in Moscow.
Vote 2020!
21
War becomes a social media event after you are attacked militarily when you don't know who attacked you, i.e. who your enemy is. It is difficult to retaliate against an attacker that you cannot identify.
Perhaps this attack on Saudi oil facilities came from Outer Space.
3
Why do we care so much about a Saudi refinery? Hmmmm?
29
Here's a clue - Israel just had an election.
14
@Lev
Yes, they had an election because they got excited about the possibility of the US bombing Iran...
Reporting all indicates it was Saudi Arabia, not the USA that was attacked. So why is the USA behaving as if we were attacked and must respond?
The Saudis spend robustly on defense, more than 60 billion dollars a year. I would think they could come up with a proportional response of their own.
94
@Unconventional Liberal
Because the USA has taken on the responsibility of security in Persian Gulf and other critical sea lanes. The alternative is smaller nations fighting for dominance. It’s complicated....
@Unconventional Liberal
They can’t figure out how to use all the arms equiptment
they bought from us.
2
@pere
I've heard the, "we have to attack every country on the planet so they don't attack each other" argument for my whole life. It mages less sense to me every time I hear it.
By the way there is no sea lane between Iran and Saudi Arabia. just mountains and desert.
If the President of Iran's denial is "very strong" just like Putin's in Helsinki, will Trump believe him over his own intelligence agencies? Of course not, because now we have the greatest intelligence agencies.
24
@Kvetch agreed!
1
You know, you can look at all the fragments you want. However, unless you were there and saw the person that pushed the button, knew his or her political affiliations, knew his or hers superiors, you will not have a clue as to what country or government is involved. If you were to look at the fragments in Yemen you would see that they are made in the USA.
66
Wouldn't it be ironic if they found pieces of the drone and it had LMT emblazoned on it, Lockheed Martin's logo.
39
@cherrylog754 And, if so, will we ever hear about it?
11
I’m inclined to believe the Iranians over the Trump administration. Lying for the Trump administration is a bodily function.
97
Make accusation first, then go look for evidence. So typical of the right-wing.
143
If the “evidence” points not to Iran but to another party, SecState Michael Pompeo will twist the facts to support his boss’s wishes.
This is president-by-sharpie. I expect to see the president hold a Rose Garden spectacle, complete with sharpie and red-faced umbrage, to show us that the missiles and drones were launched from Iran.
Even if they weren’t.
37
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
I feel pretty much the same way Red.
This guy wants to start a rumble with Iran whether it's warranted or not.
Frankly, the Saudis are NOT friends to the U.S. If they were, they would not have been party to the 9/11 attacks.
How about allowing the Saudis to fight their own battles for a change?
7
Why is this considered an "act of war" against the United States? We have no connection to this oil production facility, nor do we have any kind of unifying protection treaty with Saudi Arabia. And, why are we awaiting direction from the Saudis as to a response, and, finally, why can't the Saudis take care of their own territory? After all, they have the best weaponry money can buy.
Surely there is someone within the military brass that's willing to take a stand against U.S. involvement. Then again, based on past performance, maybe not. After all, seems our military brass are always itching for a good fight.
119
@Cartcomm
It is considered an act of war against the United States because Trump may need to be a "war president" with greater electability in the event the economy slumps before the 2020 elections.
3
@Richard Chandler Then only an act of war for political purposes. This is the point where Congress and/or the Joint Chiefs need to grow some, stand up and shut down the lunacy. But not holding out much hope.
2
@Cartcomm
It gets a little old starting questions like this, but, what would Republicans have said if Obama said he was waiting for the Saudis to tell him what to to?
The hypocrisy of the Republican Party is larger than the known universe.
There's something else here - regardless of who was behind the attack, it's an example of the future of warfare. The United States is spending hundreds of billions (trillions?) on hardware (F-35s, aircraft carriers, main battle tanks) to fight a type of war that will never happen again - would any of the existing investment prevent attacks like this on American soil or other assets (Navy)? Digital disruption is happening everywhere, and we need to deal with it happening in warfare. More personnel and investment in information and digital assets will protect us better - and can be significantly less expensive that our current military spend.
16
@Sloan
It's like the NBA or NFL. You can hire the biggest and toughest, but teams no longer overlook (well, maybe the Jets still do, lol) the small guys who can make a BIG difference.
4
As others noted, why is this our problem? The Saudis are not our friends, and have played a pivotal role in fomenting extremism across the region. If the economic importance of Saudi oil is the reason to do anything, let it be the Saudis who do it. Perhaps without US military support, they'll figure out how to talk to the Iranians. Finally, did we in the United States forget about the cooked intelligence that led us into the war in Iraq? I'm not inclined to give anyone the benefit of the doubt on this, least of all Donald Trump.
537
@RN
As Gates said (serving under Bush and Obama): The Saudis will fight the Iranians until the last American.
(Thought the point of all that weaponry the Saudis bought was to fight their own fights.)
Maybe without the backing of the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia might use diplomacy better.
62
@RN Why should the American people trust the intelligence services when our own President does not?
I'd rather trust Putin on this issue.
7
@John Harper
Wait, we're supposed to trust what Donald Trump trusts?
Forgive me if I'm laughing.
23
I fail to understand how this involves the US. Let the Saudi regime, hardly a friend let alone ally, deal with this as they see fit.
24
Because they are buying entire floors of Trump’s properties, and they treated him so special when he visited!
You don’t think is about national security, do you?
3
The straits of Hormuz are the jugular vein of Iran and they are the entry point of Persian gulf. No country can enter and dictate their terms in that area without crushing Iran. And if a country were to do that, that would a barbaric act, without precedent in recent history of waging useless wars.
Unfortunately, US has an Iran hangover problem. Whether it goes back to 1953 or 1979 or 1980 or 1988, they are not ready to accept Iran as power in the Middle east and do everything to sabotage it. Now, another plan is being drawn to do something. I hope Britain and France and others reject the idea outright.
13
@Jagdeer Haleed
I hope so too! You demonstrate a level of geopolitical understanding few possess.
How sad that I know longer believe my own country when they say Iran attacked Saudi Arabia. I need proof elsewhere. Whatever happened with that Iranian drone the US supposedly shot down in retaliation for the US drone the Iranians downed? The Iranians denied they were missing any drones and suggested that perhaps we mistakenly shot down one of our own drones. How sad, indeed, that I am more inclined to believe the Iranians than our own "president".
9
Is the US saying our satellites saw nothing of a dozen missiles or drones, traveling internationally? Where our troops and warships are present, in an area on extremely high alert?
Hmmm. No.
Unless the Houthis got a fleet of stealth cruise missiles, the US was able to watch from launch to target. Remember Patriot anti-missile defenses? We are able to see and sometimes knock out incoming strikes. Monitoring planes (awacs) are in the air.
Is the US claiming these were UFO’s, did we allow a strike, or create one? Incompetent or involved?
We may choose ignorance, but we are not blind.
18
@Woodrat Also what about the private company's satellites that documented what happened to the two Boeing Max flight disasters? They had altitude, flight speed, and probably more.
@Woodrat
No, the US has limited viewing capabilities over Iraq, for example. By agreement or design, or other constraints, I can't say, but it's not what you imagine.
1
How do we know the Saudis didn't do this themselves? Would it really be beneath a regime as despotic and brutal to launch a missile at itself (which killed no one, and based on the photos didn't really do too much damage) to rile up Donald Trump, the most erratic and easily manipulated person to ever inhabit the oval office? I'm sure the Saudis would rather the United States use our military and our lives to fight a proxy war with Iran for them, as opposed to engaging in a conflict directly.
18
@Dominic
Or Israel. There's an election there. "Vote for Bibi because he's strong" is the rallying cry.
Israel is not beneath double dealing.
8
Even if it's proven by U.S. intelligence that Iran fired the drones into Saudi Arabia, that's between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Leave us out of it.
45
So I guess we are supposed to be morally outraged by this, when Saudi Arabia has been murdering children in Yemen with our assistance and when we backed out of the nuclear deal and continue to maintain sanctions that hurt civilians in Iran.
64
I really hope they discover some WMD's while they're at it. This fight is not ours.
Where were the Saudi's when we were attacked ?
16
@Paul
True, but it's even worse.
The attackers were mostly Saudi citizens.
And after the attack, when no airlines were allowed to fly, Saudis were allowed to fly home in their private jets to insure their safety.
1
@Paul. They were flying the planes
2
@Paul - Where were the Saudi's when we were attacked ?
15 of the 19 9-11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian nationals.
So, to answer your question, they were in the planes.
3
No one in the United States wants war with Iran, regardless of where these attacks came from.
5
"...they continue gathering information to make the administration’s case that Iran was responsible for last weekend’s attack against Saudi oil facilities."
In an investigation, one tries to ascertain the unbiased truth. One does not try to make the facts fit the desired outcome - unless you are republican.
17
@Chris I looked down the comments until I saw yours. It is exactly what I would have said -- though perhaps not so succinctly. And "investigation" it is not.
1
“Up to now France doesn’t have evidence to say that these drones came from one place or another, and I don’t know if anyone has evidence,” Jean-Yves Le Drian told reporters in Cairo.
I will trust France on this one. At this point, the US has less than zero credibility. Indeed, I have come to expect malevolence and dishonesty as a matter of course. I hope the Times takes a very critical eye to what US Officials are saying.
14
So, off to war we go. Why is it so difficult to understand that, so-called, Maximum Pressure by the US on Iran's economy is simply war by another name. Is it difficult to imagine that such an effort will elicit a response? Now, after Trump's utterly misguided rejection of the Iran nuclear agreement he and us have been backed into a corner with few rational options. Republicans are the party of war, the party of "we just need a bigger hammer", of irrational support of the Saudis (Sunnis) who were the source of 16 of the 9/11 terrorists, who make up Al Qaeda and ISL. By all means let's go to war to defend the Saudis.
165
@Carl Moyer Calling Trump's decision "misguided" is being generous. It was done as much out of spite as out of ignorance - both of which ooze out of Trump's every pore.
10
@Carl Moyer
Actually, Putin said that everyone should calm down and after that the WH shut up on this.
1
@Carl Moyer. The wars in Syria and Yemen were started during Obama years.
4
" they continue gathering information to make the administration’s case that Iran was responsible for last weekend’s attack against Saudi oil facilities"
Shouldn't they be gathering information to get to the truth rather than support a particular predetermined conclusion?
344
@George Bradly
The kitchen is being fully staffed now and exceptionally operational.😂
1
@George Bradly
Nah, truth is not a strongpoint for these people.
9
Most people agree with you. I guess that’s why the investigation continues. But then a correction will not be needed like the New York Times had to make with new accusations about Kavanaugh that supposed witnesses had no recollection of.
The Saudis are not a US ally. They are a client state nestled into the geoeconomics/ geopolitics of the Middle East and oil. They buy US weapons and give lip service while stifling their citizens and guest workers of the principles we hold dear here. Since the Saudis have an army and armaments, why is the US playing big brother ? Why shouldn’t the Saudis decide what occurred and what shall be a response ?
79
The biggest mistake in the "War on Terror" was the decision to back Saudi Arabia and antagonise Iran.
Al Qaeda was a Sunni fundamentalist group. 15 of the 19 hijackers in 9/11 were Saudis. All were SUNNI.
On the other hand, Iran is majority SHIA not Sunni.
When the Taliban held power in Afghanistan, it was recognised by 3 countries. These were Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Pakistan. All are US "allies" with SUNNI majority.
In contrast, Iran fought a proxy war with Pakistan when the Taliban held power. Nine Iranian diplomats were killed by the Taliban. Despite US-Iran hostility (stemming from bilateral differences), the Taliban was recognised as a common enemy by both. Meetings were held between the two at the UN to seek common ground.
Iran supported the Northern Alliance to resist the Taliban. It was a secular alliance - with progressive attitudes towards women - which held on to four northern districts in Afghanistan.
The Northern Alliance assisted in the US ground invasion. Iran produced a detailed map of Taliban targets within Afghanistan, speeding up the US invasion significantly. This is the reason the US reached Kabul in November 2001 instead of early 2002.
Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are considered allies of the US despite the former exporting radical Wahaabism and the latter cutting off supply routes. But Iran is in the "axis of evil" apparently. Pakistan has received more than $26 billion in military aid as part of the "War on Terror".
Great foreign policy!
218
@Jack but the US cannot forgive the 1979 power grab of Chomeni against the will of the US government - which had carefully installed and backed a dictatorship since the clueless people of Iran elected a left-leaning government in 1953 - and the storming of the US Embassy at the time... What are 3,000+ killed in 9/11 (and some of them foreigners) compared to the affront against precious US diplomats and citizens 40 years ago.
11
@Jack
You are absolutely right.
4
Saudi Arabia has been waging a war in Yemen for over four years to keep a minority in power. Practically every country in the world and the democrats have called for an end to this war and the US actively supports Saudi. Now the majority in that country is fighting back directly against Saudi Arabia. And somehow they are in the wrong? Maybe Saudi Arabia needs to stop waging wars if it doesn't want others to attack it.
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@Alan P Sanders
Hey all, The Houthi REBELS in Yemen are a MINORITY. However, with funding, they were able to take control of the government of Yemen, which wasn't much to begin with until they were beaten back into the hills (literally) from where they came. The Saudis are AGAINST the Houthis. Understand now?
2
@Alan P Sanders We give major support to the Saudis to bomb the Houthis in Yemen creating untold misery. The Houthis apparently get assistance from Iran to fight back and the US is now in a tizzy. The Houthis launched an ineffective attack some months ago with no success and the notion was "these rebels are too backward to cause any harm". Now we know better.
3
I'm confused - we've been selling the Saudi's billions in our highest tech military equipment for decades and not only did they not detect this attack, several days later we aren't even sure where the attack came from? Are we winning yet?
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@Tony K
It takes "several days" to switch the real evidence with new "evidence."
If actual career members of the U.S. Intelligence community say Iran attacked, I.would mostly believe it. If only Trump Administration appointees and the Saudis say it, I will assume they are lying as usual.
1
I still find it close to incompetence if after decades of animosity neither the Saudi’s or US actually had Radar monitoring against an attack from Iran.
If it did come from Iran people at the very top of both militaries have a lot to answer for!
Peter.
7
Whatever the outcome of the investigation, hopefully someone of influence with the Oval Office will keep potus from tweeting the results to his admirers.
3
Nothing about this supposed strike makes sense - no loss of life, no defenses set up on this oil facility while Saudis have been remorselessly attacking Yemen for years. MBS recently fired SA oil minister, and is looking for other sources of $, who knows what he and Jared are cooking up.
I don't buy the excuse that Yemenis couldn't launch this attack - so far it sounds like the only ones not capable of running drone attacks are the Saudis. Oil prices go up, no one died, Saudis should be happy
41
Let's suppose that the drones or some of their parts were made in Iran. Does that prove that the Iranians were behind the attack? If so, the US government and people (elections have consequences as Netanyahu likes to say about Gazans) are responsible for a whole lot of murder and mayhem committed by our allies!
But even if the Iranians turn out to have flat out launched the attacks, who can blame them after the US government, under Ayatollah Trump, not only abrogated the nuclear control pact with Iran but applied draconian punitive measures against any allies who refused to abide by America's dictate!
Trump has been engaging in serious acts of war against Iran. Maybe the Iranians figure that, if they can't sell their oil on the free market, neither should our Saudi brothers!
6
Never a good idea to study something to prove a theory.
13
“Michael Morell, a former acting director of the C.I.A., said in remarks at a speech in Northern Virginia on Monday night that if Iran was found responsible for directing or carrying out the attacks, that would amount to an act of war and the United States would “need to respond.”
Why would the US need to respond, we were not attacked. On 9/11 though we were attacked by hijackers 15 of 19 who were Saudi - none Iranian. Why is the us allies with a ruthless regime who cuts up alive a journalist and is bombing school busses, schools, hospitals and other civilian infrastructure in Yemen - causing the worlds worst humanitarian crisis. The US seems to just be the mercenary army for the Saudis and their spread of radical Sunni Wahhabism because of oil.
96
These events bring to mind a line from an early Star Wars movie: "The more you tighten your grip, the more we will slip through your fingers." (paraphrasing)
5
Although this once again makes trump look pathetic and it also is another in a long line of oil politics, I for one disliked the spike in gas prices in 1980 and every other spike in gas prices caused by volatile Middle East actors. This latest spike will prompt those of us who are on the fence about electric vehicles to finally make up our minds and stop pandering to the Middle East and also stop polluting our planet. I am calling my electrician today to find out what my options are for retrofitting my garage for a car charger.
9
I question all conclusions drawn by this administration and the agencies it manipulates to its political ends. This is the cost of their daily lies and subversion of democracy.
27
Saudi Arabia buys lots of weapons from us. If they want to go to war with Iran, they are certainly capable. I can't think of any reason why the United States should engage militarily in defending a theocratic monarchy that has spent the last several years attacking Yemen and Qatar, kidnapping the president of Lebanon, in addition to other destabilizing actions in the region. If the United States gets pulled into another conflict in the region, so will Europe, Israel, and potentially Russia.
17
If somebody out there is able to target the exact same spot on multiple adjacent tanks, I would start to protect the home territory more than Saudi Arabia.
I do not understand those pictures. We saw flames that looked like hundreds of feets high and we see small holes on tanks that seam intact.
Could you explain?
7
Take out their missile sites on a proportional level, never back away. Work with the French. The British are already the best.
@Robert Solomon Good idea. Iran has certainly never thought of using mobile launchers.
@Robert Solomon
This came to my mind.
“We've got to have rules and obey them. After all, we're not savages. We're English, and the English are best at everything.”
― William Golding, Lord of the Flies
Which intelligence officials and why do they believe? This article does not pin the blame on Iran, it indicates an investigation at a beginning stage. It rules out the Quds 1 drone from a launch in Yemen. It does not rule out a Houthi attack, even with a Quds 1 if the Houthis got permission to launch their drones from elsewhere.
I will remind the all too believing reporters talking to "intelligence officials" that in the whole rest of the world, an attack by a drone is attributed to those flying the drone, who can be anywhere, and not to the place from which the drones are launched. Drone attacks flown from the U.S., launched in Pakistan, are called "American drone strikes".
As of last count, the Trump family are willing to do whatever Saudi commands, the traditional conservatives favor an act of war against Iran no matter who is responsible for the attack, Israel is having an election with a corrupt and flailing Prime Minister for Life trying to cling to power, and at least one Democrat attributing the responsibility for use of a weapon to the people who designed it, an attribution contrary to established law and practice.
The administration claiming absolute privilege over testimony of a private citizen this morning, the military is engaged in graft, DOJ is a personal hit squad, and the Senate is shut down by the spouse of someone using her office for a foreign business. The NRA dictates because they launder Russian money for Trump.
What could possibly go wrong?
19
Thanks to Trump and Republicans, we are self sufficient and no longer dependent on foreign oil.
If liberals had their way, there would be no domestic drilling and we would be looking at a recession right now.
1
@Jay Lincoln,so jay u think the trump administration invented the shale oil? come on man
3
@Jay Lincoln
huh? we were self-sufficient before Trump took office.
7
US oil production bottomed out during the 2008 recession and then has grown linearly every year since then. Looking at production over time, you would not be able to tell when Trump took office—the rate of growth is the same now as during the Obama years. Your hero is not a hero, he’s just a braggart.
4
I would highly doubt any evidence implicating Iran in the attacks. Here's why:
1) Iran's democratic government in 1953 was overthrown by the US and Great Britain in a coup.
2) Iran's secret police under the Shah - the SAVAK - was trained by the CIA.
3) During the Gulf of Tonkin incident (which sparked US intervention in Vietnam), a US Navy ship believed it was receiving fire from North Vietnamese vessels and returned fire. Later, this "incident" was attributed to faulty radar. Turns, out there were no enemy ships in the area at all. But it was too late. Lyndon Johnson had already pledged half a million US troops to Vietnam, using the incident as a pretext for intervention. This is not a conspiracy theory, there are White House audio tapes recording Johnson's reaction when he finds out there may have been no Vietnamese ships in the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident. They are accessible to the public.
4) Iraq was invaded in 2003 because it supposedly had Weapons of Mass Destruction. Where are the WMDs? When Iraq did have chemical weapons (e.g. mustard gas) in the 1980s, the US turned a blind eye. After all, they were using it against Iran, a US enemy. The US went so far as to shield Saddam from UNSC sanctions due to his use of chemical weapons.
5) When thousands of Yemeni civilians (including children) were killed in Saudi-led airstrikes since 2015, arms sales to Saudi Arabia continued.
36
Hmm...searching for a pretext to start a war of choice against a nation the president doesn’t like. We’ve seen this movie before.
15
And it was brought to you by the Republicans, last time too.
if France and Britain are expected to participate in retaliation, perhaps they should be the ones to determine the origin of the drone. Recall Colin Powell's presentation of false evidence against Iraq at the UN Security Council in 2003
8
So great to know that the stable genius will be the one to decide on any action....
7
The Saudi regime has been battering impoverished Yemen for nearly five years. Only last week they bombed a prison killing many of the inmate 151 persons were killed. Remember the schoolboys on the bus? The rag-tag Yemenis have proved their metal and technical resourcefulness in fighting back against the incompetent Saudi regime and it's inefficient military forces. However this has proved a windfall for those involved in arms manufacturing in the US. So the Yemenis have fought back, why should the US get involved?
17
Why don’t we just let them do it? (The Saudis) it’s their problem.
3
Are we really thinking about going to war in order to protect the financial interests of the country whose citizens attacked us on 9/11?
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@Jeff E.
No. We are thinking about going to war (I hope we don't) because SA has around 20% of the worlds proven oil reserves. Want to cause a global depression? Turn off that oil spigot.
I bet they will have used a sharpie when they show us the „evidence“
75
This is nonsense. What pictures of oil field before and after with smoke? That’s the concrete evidence by this administration to engulf the Mideast into a conflagration incalculable devastation. We would not be in this mess if the clown in the White House would not have walked away from the treaty with Iran. Now Trump want the same treaty without OBAMA’S name attached.
15
This would go much easier if Iran just said what happened.
1
Trump and Pompeo would eventually twist the facts and would blame Iran to please King Salman and Netanyahu. Then this country would be in a quagmire for the next 20 years aggravating the already stratospheric $1 trillion deficit.
This administration is nothing else than a disgrace.
15
Yet another multi-pronged Republican approach to bolster artificial reasons for another war.
9
If 19 drones and/or cruise missiles can do this much damage, imagine what a 1,000 drones and/or cruise missiles could do. Should we attack Iran, the Iranians would destroy Saudi Arabia's oil making capacity in a matter of days if not hours. The Iranians are sending the world a message. We better read it and consider the consequences of our actions. Yes, we can exert maximum pressure through sanctions. Yes, the Iranians can exert maximum pressure on the world economy by putting a dent so big in the world's oil supply that is causes a world-wide recession or worse.
9
The correct response to covertly take out their missile supply chain, storage, training, transport, manufacture, fuel depots and command and control within Iran proper but not claim responsibility for doing so and leave it up to Iran to guess how their ballistic missile infrastructure blew it-self up. Must have been the Baluchistan Freedom Liberation Front or the Peshmerga based in Iran fighting for a homeland. Iran's actions were clearly in retaliation for our sabotaging their recent ICBM test (disguised as a satellite launch). We have been waging a shadow war of attrition, spy vs spy, and tit for tat with Iran as have the Israelis and this should continue because it is far preferable to open uncontrolled conflict which risk regional escalation. We hit them by do so under the radar. When they respond, they make themselves looks like the bad actor on the world stage. I am a big believer in sending messages without inflicting collateral damage. Let them save face and let them say they walked into a door handle, wood chipper or accidentally hit themselves in the head with a baseball bat. The key is the message to be communicated is that what they are doing is bad for business - but we also need to have a diplomatic channel opened and an agenda in place as otherwise a war of attrition is a fools errand and will only escalate into provocative acts of terrorism and eventual overreactions and military to military confrontation.
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@American Akita Team
Allow me to give you a message: Operation Ajax - August 19, 1953 where the CIA overthrew the legal government of Iran. We created this mess; however, some people never learned it. Maybe because they don't want to.
51
@American Akita Team: The US hasn't "won" in any of its many military adventures since WWII (unless you count Grenada as a victory, of course). Nevertheless, an astonishing number of Americans continue to imagine that the "next one" will be the charm.
I suggest deep breathing and a sober reality check.
33
@DB: To be fair, @American Akita Team is not suggesting another overthrow attempt. He implicitly accepts the legitimacy of the Iranian government. He just wants it to change some of its external behavior. While many would disagree with using covert military violence to support diplomacy, the counterargument would be that the alternative, open war, could be worse.
I would, however, agree with you that US stupidity, over multiple generations, contributed a lot to our current troubles with Iran. Most recently, with the Iran nuclear agreement, Iran had something to lose. Without the agreement, Iran has nothing to lose, unless the US invades, which it will not do. So @American Akita Team's approach probably wouldn't work, even if it were done by a competent US administration .
10
Morrell says that if Iran carried out the attacks it's an act of war. Perhaps, but it's an act of war against Saudi Arabia. Let the Saudis fight it. They're the ones who are fighting in Yemen against the Iranian proxies, so let Saudi Arabia continue on with the fight, it's their war, not ours.
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@Kjensen
Agreed. Besides.. the Saudi's and Iran have been in defacto undeclared war for more then a decade now.
8
@Kjensen I agree. But why do you call them "proxies?"
They do not represent Iran; they represent their own interests (which are being attacked). They are Iranian allies and fellow Shiá.
12
@Kjensen
If there are any proxys it has to be the Iranians on behalf of the Houthis. Because they are the one that are at war with the Saudis and not the other way around.
Shouldn't reps from other nations be involved in examining evidence?
Hasn't recent history taught us that U.S. gov't is not to be trusted when so many in the administration are pushing for a military strike?
198
@A.K. James Exactly right. Neither we citizens nor anyone else can trust this government. Any conclusions must be vetted by other advanced industrial democracies before military action occurs. Confirmation by the Saudis is insufficient, particularly when Trump appears so willing to follow their lead.
6
@A.K. James
America's credibility has vaporized.
Recall that the blackbox from the Ethiopian 737 MAX crash was sent to France, not the FAA?
Recall that the USA was the last country on earth to ground the MAX?
Recall the downing of the USA's drone over Iran's airspace that we lied about?
I'm sure there are people in the intelligence agencies that know the truth. The American public will never hear it.
15
I was an attack on Saudi Arabia, let the Saudi's respond. We can, of course, offer support and advice but should not get bogged down further in yet another middle east quagmire. If the "world" wants to respond, we should join that but not go it alone.
29
I can't believe that we are still fighting over oil. This was a strike on an SA oil facility, but the president is taking it like American factories were struck. I don't want any more ME conflicts in my life but apparently, public sentiment doesn't matter.
227
@Michael - When the USA stops using oil for almost all of its production it won't matter but until then it matters, a great deal!
2
@MichaelThis is not "about oil"; instead it is about the Israeli - American plan for Saudi Arabia to challenge Iran as the dominate power in the gulf region. It is just a spinoff from Israel's ongoing conflicts in the region.
10
@Michael The world uses almost 100 million barrels of oil per day...and nations with the military means will continue to fight for access to those oil fields that produce the most of it. So, though you may not "want any more ME conflicts" during what remains of your lifetime, your personal sentiment, or those of the global public, is of little concern to the energy greedy governments of developed nations.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
1