Instead of rolling back regulations on clean energy I would like to roll back groups like the American Legislative Exchange Council aka ALEC, Freedom Works and the Competitive Enterprise Institute. They all have very patriotic sounding names but are run by people like the Koch brothers and other greedy oil, gas and coal people. Most are tax exempt and don't divulge who their wealthy donors are. Americans would benefit by removing these so-called think tanks. I refer to them as Stink Tanks always coming up with greedy ideas to bring them more dollars.
66
The myopic greed of placing (dubious) dishwasher drying speed over the global climate would be astounding, if it weren't already so sadly apparent. The companion piece to this article can be found in today's Washington Post, "Why Baby boomers' Grandchildren Will Hate Them." If you're a member of that generation, as I am, show up at the Climate Strike on Friday!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/17/why-baby-boomers-grandchildren-will-hate-them/
29
I am astounded at the lengths these Luddites masking as regulators will go to please Herr Ober [translation headwaiter] Trump and purported consumers watching impatiently for both paint and their dishes to dry.
11
One point that was not discussed in the article is that energy- and water-saving dishwashers are usually more expensive.
Many dishwashers are bought not by their users, but by the users' landlords. Relaxing energy regulations lets the landlord save money on appliances while the tenants pay more in their utility bills.
34
@Al
Follow the money...
6
Really? Unless your dishwasher came with an integral food disposer it might be a good idea to rinse the dishes off a bit before loading. Recently replaced our KitchenAid and it works much better than its predecessor. This is pure nonsense. Know your equipment.
27
@KMRemember, we are dealing with conservatives and libertarians here. They lie as easily as they breathe. Modern dishwashers are much better and more efficient, as are modern cars, but they are paid to say otherwise.
31
As tRump continues to force march the country toward destruction, one of the few ways to protest still left to us is the pocketbook. Refuse to buy goods, appliances, cars that do not meet the highest available standards of protecting the environment. If we won't buy them, companies won't make them.
40
The underlying problem is government standards often being 5 or so years ahead of technology advances in many cases. This happened first in the '70s cars. To meet new standards cars built then had reduced power,reliability, durablity and increased fuel consumption. Real advances in efficiency and reliability began when computer and fuel injection technology came in '80s mainly from Japan first.
Modern household appliances may save some energy but the cost,reliability and durability are lacking.
It is difficult to find a repair technician willing to look at our 3000$ refrigerator that builds up ice. Any savings in power usage is dwarfed by 500$ repair bills.
California has implemented many such standards but we pay a dollar more for gasoline and 22 cents per kwh too.
All the while China,India and other developing countries are building fossil fueled power plants adding 7 to 10 pounds of atmospheric carbon for every pound we eliminate.
Advanced nuclear technology that we can spread world wide quickly is the only viable solution.
3
Part of the reason that dishwashers take longer is that consumers demanded quieter dishwashers. This could be because of "open plan" housing -- the kitchen is now rarely a separate room with a door you can close.
If your dishes aren't getting clean enough, do some research on dishwasher detergents. The detergent does all of the work, and there are huge differences among them.
36
Nonsense. We have two dishwashers, a Whirlpool at our primary residence and a GE at our vacation home. Both have fast wash options that take about an hour to complete, and both clean the dishes perfectly, even when we use that shorter option.
It is very disconcerting to see all of these efforts to roll back regulations that protect the environment and save the consumer money.
42
When is the ban on electric cars coming?
20
Bring back the gas guzzlers while you're at it! Americans have always had a thirst for speed - and you're one of them- even with something as ordinary as a dishwasher. Remember this: clean dishes are not a race. Slow down, pour yourself a tall one, and consider how your are helping the environment by using a slower but more energy efficient appliance. BTW, check out CR while you're at it. I bet the model in your home didn't make the cut.
11
@ElleTheBelle oh, please. Nothing makes libertarians more angry than helping the environment. If they can’t destroy the planet, they’ll take their toys and go home.
8
Consumers like the money that stays in their pocket when they buy EnergyStar labeled appliances, since the cost of running them is lower. Manufacturers see sales increase when they offer products meeting the EnergyStar guidelines (it's a voluntary program, by the way).
As power utilities roll out smart meters and offer inexpensive (or free) power during off-peak hours, consumers and the utility save money. Consumers buy cheaper power. Utilities avoid needing to build or buy for costly peaks.
Electric cars will have a similar impact, since the annual cost of owning and operating one is already lower than for fueled vehicles.
As all this goodness spreads, and as wind and solar and storage proliferate, the coal barons and the oil companies see the writing on the wall, so their funded stink-tanks promote ridiculous federal petitions like this one, while they also place their lobbyists into what is hopefully the LAST administration to benefit fossil interests almost to the exclusion of all others.
I'll also note that there's EnergyStar for buildings, too, which allows tenants or buyers to get a look at how efficient it will be run, so how much they'll spend. Trump Tower in Chicago is the least-efficient large building in the city - by a very long way. It scores a 9 out of a possible 100 score. So tenants are paying an unwelcome extra premium to live there. Sad!
31
“People’s time is a nonrenewable resource. People get frustrated when their appliances take longer, whether it’s dishwashers or washing machines,”
Interesting sentiment. So, lots of people are standing around checking their watches and looking at their dishwashers?
You know, I used to be concerned about the AI apocalypse. However, after reading this, I think I should be more concerned about humanity losing its soul over the vast army of semi-sentient robot slaves we are about to create. Nothing says you are a good person like making unreasonable demands of beings with no power to say no.
15
Industry survives by understanding the American consumer, and this consumer appreciates more efficient appliances, light bulbs, autos, etc. Older model dishwashers are notorious energy wasters. I suspect that the contingent clammering for faster dishwashers will be the first ones to yowl about their energy and water bills going up.
Seriously, if you're that short on time, get the dishes done in 10 minutes by getting your hands in a little soapy water and finishing the job with a dishtowel.
45
Try and find a decent washing machine. Like dishwashers they have all been ruined by the Obama imposed efficiency standards...
9
@Wuggins
Hardly, but have considered the gains in energy costs - both direct as well as indirect by way of water efficiency?
9
@Wuggins That's quite a statement. Do you have any data to back this up?
12
Why would you hide such good reporting on the gutting of environmental protections behind a headline about dishwashers? Just curious.
8
@Bunk McNulty There are plenty of articles in the Washington Post about the rollback of environmental protections. This is just one of many.
3
I have a pretty efficient dishwasher: Me
13
I have a Bosch and it takes about 1 hour. The dishes come out sparkling clean and the machine is quiet and efficient. If you buy a bad dishwasher, don't complain about efficiency standards. Blame yourself for not doing your research.
38
Our dishwasher takes a long time, but because it is efficient and quiet, we can run it right before bed and put the dishes away in the morning.
30
@TAB, But how can you sleep knowing that the dishwasher is taking two hours instead of one?
19
My old Maytag washed dishes in 45 min including drying time. You could leave them in there for two days, and they still would come out sparkling clean. Unit lasted almost 30 years. Do you think the new ones are better?
5
Yup. New ones are better. Your old machine had one setting. And sounded like a Mack truck. My new one is so quiet most people standing in the kitchen can’t hear it running, and if I want the dishes in an hour, it has that setting. It also uses less water, and given I have to pay for water, it is saving me money. All of that sounds better to me.
50
@Ralph
“You could leave them in there for two days,“
What’s going on in your dishwasher that clean dishes get dirty simply because of the passage of time?
13
Dear MDGA people,
I don’t know where these people are shopping. But let me give the bad news as a current shopper for a dishwasher. Most dishwashers already come with different cycles including eco mode, fast mode (one hour), extra purified dishes, or just regular wash. The only reason you believe this is a problem is because you also believe plastic straws are good for the environment.
40
I have a 2019 Ford Fusion Energi that also is a dream on the highway. I plug it in overnight using electricity that is 100% renewable. Beyond the range of the battery, I still get over 45mpg. It costs me less than the 2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid to operate and purchase. My dashboard indicates I get over 200mpg overall. This car is a threat to the fossil fuel industry. No wonder the fossil fuel industry and Trump deny the truth. What always made America great was change, innovation, research, and better technology.
50
@Tom, what is the range of your Fusion? My problem with many of these hybrid and electric cars is that they are not very good for long distance travel, which I have to do frequently. Stopping to recharge every two hundred miles or so is inconvenient if it takes overnight vs. 15 minutes at a gas pump.
@Tom
exactly. Everything with the trump admin is transactional; these regulatory rollbacks are just part of carrying the water (should I say 'gasoline'?) of the massive carbon polluters. Where they get Orwellian (and they always get Orwellian) is when they claim this is about 'protecting choice for American citizens'. What a disingenuous joke.
Vote 'em out. Restore sanity to our govt.
10
I had a 1969 Mercury Marquis Broughm. It had a 400 cubic inch engine and beautiful red velvet bench seats. It was 16 feet long and a dream on the highway. It burned fuel like a cruise ship, had no headrests or airbags and only lap seatbelts. I demand we make those cars again. If we are gonna go backwards we can do a lot better than dishwashers.
31
"It's confounding,..."
No, not really. The President has no inclination nor intention of pursuing policies that will distinguish this nation as great. He is firmly under the thumb of, and being controlled by, powers and influences that openly seek to destroy our great democracy.
His 'best friends' list is notable by their urgency to make the USA 'ungreat'. He seeks more power via money for cutting the legs off of controls of the fossil fuel industry, as the remaining Koch brother and attached industries continue to pour money in his pockets. He is a mindless profiteer, an oligarch wannabe, and his actions to promote pay-to-play, and Make America Fail Again will be magnified 100 fold, if he is re-elected.
30
Seems like ripe material for Saturday Night Live. Is this truly a big deal to flyover country? The manufacturers don't want it - and I'm sure that is in part because they assume that the Mango Menace won't be back in 2021 when the rules will change back to santity.
Surely it can't make a huge impact on energy use, unless we go back to a 1980's model. Or is it the Koch industry philosophy that we should roll back all energy efficiency. I'm trying to speculate on what is next but I'm not a "conservative" so it is challenging.
18
@Ortrud
Wouldn’t surprise me if all these rollbacks do is discourage consumer spending.
5
@VCR
Rollbacks will certainly dampen sales and/or drive buyers to European products that are well-designed and reliable, far more energy and water efficient, and have lower operating costs over the [dishwasher or other daily use appliance] product's useful life -- tariffs or no tariffs. Anyone recall how the American auto industry lost market share and brand equity to foreign imports?
12
Those monsters from the past had to be run when not entertaining, sleeping, or listening to music. Those cons who are anti-new dishwashers must have advanced hearing loss.
If they don’t know that dishwashers are quieter than ever and work better than before then they need to upgrade.
26
I wonder if Mr. Savickas also complains that McDonalds doesn’t taste as good as a steak at a fine restaurant.
This is the same DOE that tried to save coal plants by saying it would try to prevent coal plant closures.
14
This is along the lines of the insistence that we not switch to LED light bulbs. It is shooting oneself in the foot, and for what? To prove something to those darn, tree hugging liberals?
So hey you Trumpers who want to go back to energy hog dishwashers: I am proudly using my energy efficient dishwasher, only when full and with low water use, running on power from the solar panels on top of my house, after scraping off food that is in my compost pile, and to wash and reuse glass containers so I can reduce plastic consumption. My environmentally sound choices will counteract your deliberately spiteful ones.
47
@Amelia, in this world, your environmentally sound choices are probably subsidizing the Trumpers' deliberately spiteful ones.
1
Let’s all focus on dishwasher history and performance. Okay.
Wait. What?
7
We're remodeling. The rep at the appliance store said no matter how much you pay, none of them will clean actual dirty dishes any more. And the days of getting the dishes done in a reasonable amount of time after supper are over. I know I'm using way more water than if the machine was just allowed to do its job.
4
@Working mom um - not so. We have a new dishwasher - it uses a tiny amount of water because the new technology uses steam. One hour cycle and way less water than by hand. Quiet. You need to get the right detergent. Makes a huge difference.I recommend you look into a Bosch or a Miele. Your water bill will go down and your will have cleaner dishes. And yeah, they are not American products but they are sold by US stores who profit from these sales.
31
Wrong. We use a Bosch and it is way better than the less efficient (and quick) piece of junk we had.
18
@Working mom Buy a Bosch. Best dishwasher ever. I never pre-wash, just scrape off the gunk. That, and Cascade, and my dishes are sparkling clean.
13
Mr. Savickas should simply ask his apartment manager to go buy a better dish washer. We bought an energy efficient dish washer recommended by Consumer Reports, and it washes just fine. Don't throw the baby out with the dishwasher!
31
My dishwasher seems to take well over an hour but I'm not standing there demanding that it hurry up. Because I'm not tied to the sink, I can go and do other things. My new stove, on the other hand, cooks in half the time and I must stick around to tend to it. As for the time the washer and dryer take, what do I care? I run them, then go to other parts of the house and wait for the buzzer or look at my watch. These groups just want to create trouble, drive up fossil fuel use for their benefit, and get rid of anything labeled or signed by Obama. They don't care that they will make people sick, drive up our utility bills, and cost us money.
59
Yeah, I have absolutely no doubts that the Koch brothers feel very frustrated when they run by themselves their own energy-efficient dishwaters. It must feel unbearable to these billionaires.
32
I’m freedoming as hard as I can, but still none of this makes sense.
37
If your dishwasher isn't doing a good job, try changing the type of detergent you use in it. Powders work in some kinds of water, liquids in others. I changed my detergent from a liquid to powder, and it washes great! (And in just one hour . . .)
18
@kr Also, how things are arranged. Too many overstuff the machine or stack things incorrectly.
9
This just confuses me. My reaction throughout this article was 'Say what?'
For the record, I have a ruthlessly efficient 20 year old Bosch energy star dishwasher, and I expect it to keep going for another 20 years as long as I replace the occasional part. Unless of course some crazed Republican breaks into my house and destroys it with a sledgehammer.
I honestly don't know what to say about this latest stupidity.
72
BTW, Bosch has factories in New Bern, NC and LaFolette, TN. So my German dishwasher is American made.
And BTW if anyone cares - GE Appliances is now owned by a Chinese company (Haier).
26
Who remembers the movie, Bananas, and the line: from now on everyone will wear their underwear on the outside. I think we're ready folks.
41
Would love to see Republicans put this on their 2020 platform: “Faster dishwashing cycles for all!”
27
@Bob Smith - more accurately "petition the federal government to create yet more rules for a feature that is already available"
Up is down and black is white. The GOP passes tax bills to boost the deficit, and now they're pushing for the federal government to spend more taxpayer money coming up with unnecessary, redundant rules.
To any Fox Fan who feels your life is dimmed by this horrible dishwasher problem - please read from this article:
"In fact, 87 percent of dishwashers sold in 2017 included a quick cycle that can wash and dry the load in an hour, according to the manufacturers association."
Voila. Your problems solved without yet another GOP run to the federal government to make taxpayers and manufacturers do things they don't want.
Don't thank me, just vote out the guy whose tariffs increased the cost of dishwashers.
34
Don't worry. Anerica will start making its presidentd great again from Jan 2021.
From that time onward, American presidents will have some basic sense of honesty, some basic understanding of justice, some meaningful high school level education and at least proven to be mentally fit ebough to run a public office as an Alderman for at least two terms (must win at least one re-election.)
18
@bonku
Bonus: bachelor's level degree, experience in foreign policy, and potential advisers who would *gasp* put the welfare of the American public ahead of money-grubbers.
9
I’m very happy with my new dishwasher. It is more efficient and much quieter and gets dishes perfectly clean. These people arguing otherwise are also climate warming deniers. Truth doesn’t matter to them. The science is easy to understand and has been known since the middle of the nineteenth century. Obfuscation to mask inexplicable greed.
33
Everything this administration does is to “own the libs” and cause frustration to those they seek to settle a score with.
Thus the bizarre “winning” mantra we heard so much early in this presidency. It is not about policy...it is about revenge, particularly toward a certain previous president that Trump spent 8 years lying about.
31
@MJH This is an opportune time for the libs to make the current administration "own its lies".
3
I run my dishwasher overnight when I go to bed. I get up and they are nice and clean. And to be honest, on the rare occasions I have enough people in my house to require an earlier washing, there are always people to help hand wash the remaining dishes -- old school socialization.
29
I love the one complain that it supposedly takes a long time for the dishes to dry. As a ten year old (decades ago) I knew that once the final wet cycle ended all you needed to do was open the door, drip the pooled water off the bottom of the coffee cups, and let evaporation of hot water speed things along. Presto - dry dishes (and a bit less power used).
The Koch money basically gets spent to make sure our air and water stay dirty while we all pay more than we need for energy. Well, and they fight against public transit, too. Seems their Bircher dad raised them to hate people, and profit from doing so.
36
@b fagan
It just occurred to me that the Koch's don't give a darn about a clean environment. I suspect they are so removed from what it takes to sustain life - air and water, as opposed to stocks and bond - that they are totally clueless. And they drag along those who don't have the stocks and bonds, nor the inquiring mind to question the Kochs' motives.
Get these greedy people out of our politics!
8
@b fagan. Yes, our new dishwasher opens the door all by itself when it’s done to dry with little power use. It cleans better than any previous ones we had and you can’t hear it run.
4
Too bad the smoking argument is settled. Otherwise moderates could get Republicans to smoke themselves to death with Chesterfields by making a few modest regulations to curb smoking.
26
Elect Republican old men who have staff or "wives" to clean their dishes and these are the rules they put in place for dishwashers. Republican old men will not live long enough to experience the maximum effects of climate change and they don't care about their children, grandchildren or the health of planet earth.
Vote for Democratic Women
36
Y'know, not once in my decades of dishwasher ownership did I ever time how long my dishwasher took? No. Was it some man who timed it? Because women have too much to do other than stand around unloading dishes when it finishes. We unload the dishes when we get around to it.
35
It’s discouraging that politicians take stances that don’t seem to make much sense to anyone and won’t give good reasons for those stances or disclose which of their donors support them. So dishonest!
Better efficiency is cheaper in long run for consumers. Oh, it’s also better for the environment.
18
First principles: The world's population increases exponentially. People aspire to a standard of living that consumes more energy and material resources.These resources are not infinite; increasing consumption comes with costs.
Fossil-fuel energy emissions exacerbate and accelerate climate change; a practical means of mitigating fossil fuel combustion emissions is not on the horizon.
There is a price for everything. Dispensing with efficiency regulations will squander our resources in the name of a capitalist ideal that blissfully ignores long-term realities. But natural, physical processes will proceed without regard to capitalist theory and "free market" ideals.
Perhaps if the world's population were substantially reduced, the demand for the planet's resources and consequent anthropomorphic environmental impacts could be reduced to a point where regulatory controls on industry and the marketplace could be eased...but that is probably magical thinking.
Studies have documented numerous instances of the collapse of city-states and civilizations resulting from non-sustainable consumption of local natural resources. Our capability to exploit resources on a global scale may lengthen the time when a similar collapse occurs, this time devastating whole populations around the world. Absent strong conservation measures, that outcome is surely inevitable.
I can tolerate longer dishwasher cycles if it means our grandchildren and their grandchildren have a life.
21
@Peer - the world's population is not increasing exponentially. The rate of population growth peaked in the 1960s and the rate is dropping.
Where you say: "Perhaps if the world's population were substantially reduced" - yes, that is magical thinking, and the cruelest form of it. It is smarter to focus on what people in each country can do, rather than on what we can't. What we can do is be more efficient and move away from the fossil fueled, single-use, throwaway culture to a better one that will also, happily, save people money and improve our health.
Studies have shown that population growth in a nation slows when children start surviving infancy and childhood, and parents get to at least a minimal standard of living.
Here's some verifiable information.
"The absolute increase of the population per year has peaked in the late 1980s at over 90 million additional people each year [...]
since the 1960s the growth rate has been falling. This means the world population is not growing exponentially – for decades now, growth has been more similar to a linear trend."
Scroll down to the chart "World Annual Population Growth Rate (1950-2100). Text above is from just over that chart. (And note that the trend between 2014 and 2100 is a projection).
https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth
But yeah, those who consume energy have an obligation to consume it wisely.
4
This issue and resultant debate is designed to lose us.
But it’s obvious that energy efficiency is seen as a threat to the entrenched energy industry interests.
14
I wonder how many of the dishwasher complainers have bothered to check their dishwasher filters or drains. Many of their devices are just recirculating yucky water and debris. Whining won't fix that.
Earth to modern people: ALL appliances need to be cleaned and maintained. Like the dust around the coils of your refrigerator and the filters for the water from such. Then there is the furnace and AC filter. If you haven't changed that in the last 6 months, you are spending way too much money on fuel or electricity and breathing your own junk.
And when was the last time you looked at the "cabin filter" in your vehicle? Get ready...you will see what you are breathing...your kids, too.
21
Excellent point, Bob. You just know none of those people are cleaning or maintaining their appliance filters. I would add cleaning dryer filters and maintenance (not just the little lint trap tray), which will not only dry your clothes faster, but will also help avoid house fires.
5
So ironic. Conservatives reject conservation.
38
Hard to believe the stupidity some people think they can sell. I live alone. I run my dishwasher two or three times a week (and rinse my dishes). It makes no difference whatever to me if it takes one hour, two hours or three hours for the cycle to run. I do appreciate that my current machine is quieter and more efficient than the one it replaced.
38
What's this about? Trump's reelection campaign. My family members are Trump people. How did they know Obama was a dictator when he was in office? The light bulbs. And I cannot tell you how many times my mother has complained about the dishwasher situation. My bet would be that Fox News did some brainwashing about dishwashers some time ago, perhaps when "Obama bulbs" was a topic being harped on so much. Oh and about that... nearly certain it was George W. Bush who put in place what led to "Obama bulbs". At any rate, the dishwasher thing will play well with the base. Very well. That's all it's about.
48
@C in NY
This was an interesting comment. I’m around a lot of conservatives, some who are disgusted by Trump, some who aren’t, but I never realized this was a thing. Most people I know are happy with technological progress—they like household appliances that use less electricity and cars that aren’t gas guzzlers. I guess this is a Fox News narrative I wasn’t aware of. It gives voting against your own interest a new meaning.
8
I heard the trumpists plan to augment their new edition of the 1960s-style dishwashers in their "Make Dishwashers Great Again" by using hamsters in running wheels. The running wheel will be mounted on the counter top and wired to the dishwasher motor. Hamsters are not included at point of sale, but must be purchased separately at pet stores.The 'new old' dishwashers will be available at home improvement stores in three weeks. But wait. There is more to the great-again movement in fly-over country. Nebraska trumpists, following a mandate issued by Ben Sasse last week, began replacing electric lights with kerosene lamps in Omaha homes five days ago. I heard they plan to reinstate kerosene lamp usage across our country through a small business loan program created by Jared Kushner and Deutschbe Bank. Stay tuned....
21
Most dishwashers can be programmed so the washing cycle starts around midnight. So, what does it matter if the cycle is "too long"; you are sleeping anyhow.
25
@Fran Exactly! And in many communities, running the dishwasher at off-peak times (usually in the wee hours of the morning) saves utility costs.
21
@C. Killion - well, the Trump voters are a bunch of wealthy elitists who want to spend conspicuously. Less efficient light bulbs? Yeah!
Our country was founded on spending a lot on light!
And don't think this petition for a very necessary, energy-guzzling, one-hour cycle is the end. They'll go back to the government again and again to add to the federal pile of rules to also create faster models of dishwasher - eventually ones that burn kerosene to dry everything in a minute flat (no plastics!).
(What passes for Conservatism these days has become that inverted and stupid from being taken over by Murdoch properties and extremely wealthy libertarian families - yet they convince some voters to elect people to make the voter's life shorter and more expensive. Go figure.)
11
I believe there will come a day when people will think wistfully and longingly of the Obama era; the same way some people think wistfully, “ oh, if only I had taken better care of myself when I was younger,” when they are old and suffering.
20
@Morgan Uhhhh... LOTS of us have been wistful since day 1 of what we hope is a VERY short "Trump era!"
8
@Morgan A lot of us have been there for a while now.
2
Have y’all noticed that matches don’t work well anymore. You have to strike them several times before they lite up or the head crumbles off. Takes two or three to get my cigar going. Bring back matches that work, the best ones used mercuric fulminate. MAKE MATCHES GREAT AGAIN.
23
What is wrong with the sycophantic, malevolent, vindictive fools in the Trump administration, who seem bent on destroying the environment and accelerating climate change, just to please their narcissistic master?
32
Trump’s legacy: Make America Dirty Again.
When I start up the dishwasher after dinner (every second day for just two people), we don't need the load before the next morning at the earliest.
17
Oh, my word. Listening to these parrots trying to justify their asinine decisions and priorities is becoming impossible.
I’m certain I’m not alone in my disgust with their positions and their estimates of a typical American’s intelligence.
22
I would really like to say that this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in American politics, but the absurdities being generated by this prolifically idiotic, corrupt, and inept administration are so numerous that I can only say that this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day.
Scratch that: it's the most ridiculous thing this administration has given us this afternoon.
32
I swear, the is absolutely no depth to the stupidity of republicans & libertarians...maybe they were all dropped on their heads at birth?
22
The nuttier the issue, the more regret the
Hillary haters should be feeling by electing Our
Dear Leader seemingly by default.
I am sickened by the idiot-logues whom are
trying to erase the gains of the past few decades.
Well, the Cabinet appointees seem to be deliberate rogues gallery
villains, the rightwing fools hav contradictions contradictions e won, and I fear
they’ll have 6 more years of eco-destruction.
6
The utter stupidity of the Trump administration's war on science, war on the environment, war on women, war against the constitution, war on the rule of law, and war to enrich himself is absolutely sickening.
Please God, don't let the Saudi king drag us into another war.
19
Classic—men who apparently can’t read directions regarding which cycle to use.
The dishwashers work just fine. Start them up, go to bed, and try not to wake up so stupid you work for Trump.
55
This conservative is just baffled by the stupidity of "conservative" groups. Shut up and get a life. Or go home and wash your own stinkin' dishes.
6
This evening, after the California emissions temper tantrum article, it’s been feeling a little like I’m reading an unfunny version of The Onion. Just how stupid are these people not to realize that manufacturers do not want to completely retool their production to go backward in time?
28
@Kally - could be a moneymaker there in your observation. Find any raggedy old dishwashers that blast through a noisy cycle in an hour or less - pretty them up with a bit, maybe with a US Map with Sharpie enhancements - and sell them to the suckers as MAGA washers.
There's lots of inefficient junk out there that could be dressed up for people who equate High Electric Bills with Freedom.
9
@Kally
We've been living in the real life version of the Onion for three years now. I'm actually surprised the Onion still publishes anything at all anymore, as reality has far surpassed it into the plane of Bizarro absurdity.
9
It would be nice if us could make a good dishwasher, but nothing can clean a modern conservative, so dirty are they
9
Why does Donald Trump & his administration want to kill the planet at an even faster rate than is already happening???
19
It is nothing more than these Trump-loving environment-be-damned supporters assuming that their grandchildren will be able to breathe when there is no oxygen. It is astonishing.
9
Why do Republicans want to kill the planet and my children along with it?
12
The stupid just never ends with the white male supremacy party and their dirty corrupt lobbyists who slide wads of cash down their pants.
9
Readers and commenters should read the comments on the government website, mostly shills for AFP. What a bunch of lazy fools. Wash your dishes by hand, like real men...and women. Save water, save yourselves.
3
@Stephen. Actually, it has been shown that using a modern dishwasher uses less water than washing a load by hand.
6
@Jordan F, depends how you wash dishes. I stop running water after all have a splash, scrub all plates, pots, silverware, then turn on the water and rinse. I suspect that people just let the water run the whole time, like brushing their teeth. Up here, in NorCal, we have to spare our water resources.
Is this a news article or an opinion? There is no room in professional journalism to mix the two.
@Dady Are you suggesting that reportage of verifiable events is opinion?
9
If you want your dishes washed fast how about you hand-wash them ya lazy bastids???
10
NOWHERE is it mandated that manufacturers stop making "energy-efficient" and "water-saving" appliances, or power-saving lightbulbs. They are free to continue making them, if consumers want them. I call baloney on the makers' claim that de-reg will cost consumers more money! They are in cahoots with the regulators because the more high-tech they are required make their stuff, the higher their profit margin. They love it when the government plays the fall guy for their own greed.
Most home items forced on us by the EPA lose something in performance, and (tongue in cheek) I am tempted to say it's all very misogynistic. Regulators must hate women to make us hold a kettle for several minutes under a restricted-flow faucet, waiting for it to fill. They must hate homemakers to force them to spend a week of evenings doing family laundry, at an hour or two per washer load.
Regulators hate thrifty people, too. EPA' s drastic water restrictions have ruined the most affordable washer type, front-loaders; their shrunken agitators dry-grind and tangle fabrics. Faced with this, I spent several hundred dollars more to get a Speed Queen, the only top-loader still built to use adequate water to do the job, and in a 35-minute cycle. Of course there are front-loaders, for even more money, plus the cost of a riser to lift the machine so a person doesn't risk a sprained back from bending low and reaching into it.
Thank you Trump for making EPA regs less hateful! It's about time.
5
@Judy Harmon Smith
Judy! What baloney! Do you also want a return to the five gallon toilet flush? Most of us have to pay high water bills. The LG front loaders I use do very effective cleaning. The Energy Star program has been very popular and effective for many years. It has saved me much money on my electric bills. When I see this kind of nonsense, then it is clear the agenda is to have no regulations. Then we get junk that transfers our costs to our water bill, our electric bill, and our gas bill. Consumer Reports has tested for years the dishwashers, and they are very efficient and cost effective. Even the low end one in my current apartment saves me much effort and time and particularly water which is a prized asset in this area. Clearly again these intentions are to bully the public into total deregulation which will cost us dearly in the long run. The EPA has a long history and hitherto has done a good job, and now there is a political push to destroy it. How does the general public gain from this?
20
@Judy Harmon Smith
"a week of evenings doing family laundry": do you mean that you keep your washing machine company while it is washing your laundry? There is a better way: put the dirty laundry in the machine; start the machine; and then go read a book or watch TV or talk with your husband and children. That is what most women are doing anyhow.
I have been using a front-loading machine for over twelve years now, and my laundry does not get "dry ground".
Are you physically handicapped by any chance? I am 84 and have arthritis in every joint; doing the laundry is not a problem -- at least not yet.
20
Trump’s goal is to get rid of as many EPA regs as possible (never mind the damage to our environment) so that should make you very happy! Hopefully he will not be re-elected and the damage can be limited.
7
“We try and roll back burdensome regulations and make life easier for consumers and manufacturers”. If this stupidity continues life for most will not be easier when clean water becomes increasingly scarce, the air becomes more polluted and the climate warms.
19
"People’s time is a nonrenewable resource."
I'm sure future generations will understand that even modest efforts to preserve the environment were ignored because their grand parents wanted their dishwasher cycle to finish a few minutes sooner. It's almost impressive how short sighted some people are...
17
I have lived in Panamá City for more than 10 years after living on W 42nd Street for 30 years. I have been fortunate enough to have
visited 40 countries and 49 states. Panamá City reminds me most of NYC. The extraordinary diversity of its population, its modern infrastructure and its 75 skyscrapers make me feel at home (more skyscrapers than any city in the Western Hemisphere, except for NY and Chicago).
What is rare here is a dishwasher. If you don't have them you don't miss them. They are hardly a reason to despoil the environment.
9
People sit around waiting for the dishwasher? I thought it was really one of those set it and forget it devices.
12
@JR
I thought so too, but even without a dishwasher, there is an easy way -- assuming of course that you have a sink: - put your dirty dishes in the sink; add dish detergent and hot water; come back the next day and rinse your dishes; put them on a rack to air dry.
Could it be that both the sink method and your "set it and forget it" are just too simple for some people?
6
Several years ago, because I never use my dishwasher, I converted it to a filing cabinet / tool box for small tools that are nice to have at hand. When friends are over, accepting their help with clean-up is always fun with more great conversation.
11
“This will require more electricity and more water”.
Is it too late to add to the Bill of Rights the Right to Waste? I don’t think it’s there right now.
10
@Themis
How about "the Right to Make your Husband Wash the Dishes"? How I would love to see (pictures of) Donald Trump or Mitch McConnell dutifully washing their (wive's) dirty dishes in the kitchen while the "ladies" are watching TV.
2
"In fact, 87 percent of dishwashers sold in 2017 included a quick cycle that can wash and dry the load in an hour, according to the manufacturers association."
My Kenmore has so many options. Maybe Mr. Savickas should invest in a 21st century model, and discard his 20th century concepts.
No thanks, I'm the consumer and I prefer to keep my energy efficient model. The appliance makers should listen to me, not to Mr. Savickas.
Do you think Bosch and LG are going to adhere to backward-thinking American standards? People will just buy more foreign models, helping more American brands exit the market place.
28
My Kitchen Aide is a wonderful machine, the best I ever owned. Just put on the delay, and in the morning you have clean dishes. Just be sure to load the washer correctly, no nesting! Energy efficient, clean dishes, what more do you want?
15
Their actual concern is government doing its job and regulating. All the arguments about length of time and cleanliness of dishes is not what its really about.
9
The reason Mr. Savickas' dishwasher in his apartment is garbage is that it is garbage. I knew someone who worked in selling appliances and if I recall the term for most apartment dishwasher's correctly was, "builder's specials"
These are the cheapest units you can buy and this person said they would never sell them in their store as people would be ticked off since the appliances don't work well. The apartment really doesn't care how efficient an appliance is, they get to advertise it comes with these appliances and whether it costs you $1 or $100 to use that appliance, it's not the apartment that foots the usage cost.
Anecdotal, but in my apartment, my hot water heater is on the extreme inefficient end of the scale. I pay the cost of running it not the apartment management. So yeah Mr. Savickas, not exactly a convincing argument.
13
A lot of people find these new energy efficient dishwashers don’t clean well because they aren’t using them properly. These people are likely pre-rinsing their dishes.
From consumer reports:”Up until about a decade ago, you had to prerinse dirty plates, bowls, and glasses in the sink before loading them into the dishwasher to ensure your dishes came out clean. Now, most dishwashers work better if you don't prerinse them. Electronic soil sensors scan how dirty the water is at the beginning of a load and automatically adjust the wash cycle based on the amount of grime they detect.
‘Prerinsing tricks the dishwasher into thinking the dishes are clean so that it cuts the cycle short, which may leave your dishes dirty,’ says Ciufo. He's aware that prerinsing may be a hard habit to break. Even he had a difficult time getting his own mother to stop hand-rinsing. ‘People are creatures of habit!” says Ciufo.’
14
I for one didn’t know this. And I will do what modern conservatives are unable to do now, I will listen to your explanation and adjust accordingly because it just makes plain sense. No more prerinsing for me.
5
@Ann. This is fascinating and I didn’t know it either.
3
While this is not the stupidest proposition I’ve heard this year, it comes close. I grew up washing dishes by hand (and being drilled mercilessly by my mother on the multiplication tables, which may partly account for my sky-high SAT scores. Thanks, Mom!). When we moved to a brand new tract house, mom was thrilled with the dishwasher, until she realized that she had to rinse the dishes so thoroughly that they were a millimeter from being clean. And, it sounded like a helicopter was landing in our kitchen. And, it needed repair every couple of years. Still, we were convinced that it more sanitary, and electricity was fairly cheap in the Northwest. She prewashed her dishes until her death in 2001.
Meanwhile, after leaving home I again washed dishes by hand for several decades. When I renovated my UWS apartment in 2002, I splurged on a Bosch dishwasher that uses far less water, far less power, cleans the dishes better than a commercial grade machine, and is almost silent to boot. And I’m at 17 years and counting without a repair.
My conclusions?
1) Manufacture a high quality product.
2) Make it extremely energy-efficient, not just enough to be legal.
3) Enjoy the fact that your country doesn’t have to go to war every few years to protect its oil interests. Ever seen a German soldier in Iraq? Iran? Didn’t think so.
30
My folks have a dishwasher from the 90s that guzzles water and requires them to hand-wash beforehand. Meanwhile, I have a new energy-efficient Bosch that does not require rinsing beforehand and it works amazingly.
People are buying cheap dishwashers and then blaming energy-efficient rules for their short-sightedness.
14
This is crazy. My Bosch dishwasher has 2 hour cycle. It also has a 60 min express cycle. Which really works! And dishes are clean!!!! Sounds like it will be a cost savings to manufacturers at the expense of our environment!
11
Do your homework and look into reliable professional reports. My dishwasher takes about 2 hours. It's very quiet, and no matter how much I pack into that sucker, everything still comes out super clean!
10
Republicans argue for inferior technology because it makes them richer. Simple.
17
Bet they want to start putting phosphates back in the detergents too. Algae blooms here we come.
10
I wish they'd roll back the regulations on washing machines that wash with hardly any water, and leave clothes dirty and spotted. There's only one way to get clothes clean: with a drum full of water. At least with dishes you have the option of doing them in the sink, but what are we supposed to do with clothing? Go down to the river and beat them against a rock?
5
@Roberta
Change your clothes more often, especially your towels and underwear; bedsheets once a week. That should do it.
5
@Roberta
Dirty and spotted you say. Have you cleaned the filter on your washer? Have you replaced the hoses? Checked the drain? Are you overloading it?
The washer manual may help you troubleshoot.
6
Really only useful commercially or if you party a lot. Otherwise just a waste of money.
1
@Christopher Colt
Not really. On Sundays, if you have company for lunch, it is nice to just stuff the dishes into the dishwasher and let it do the work the following night.
3
“People get frustrated when their appliances take longer, whether it’s dishwashers or washing machines,”.
I also do not get frustrated waiting for my dishes to dry. I do wish they’d empty themselves.
Where do they get this nonsense?
18
How absolutely vapid an “administration” must we have that the Environmental PROTECTION Agency is proposing these changes? How absolutely backward-thinking does one have to be to believe that these are positive steps? How absolutely sinister and sad must the current occupant of the White House be to do such damage to the planet, the economy, and the intellect of every thinking American? God helps us all.
12
While we are at it, let's bring back phosphates in laundry detergent, DDT, freon and CFCs in our aerosol cans. Really, who needs clean water and an ozone layer?
What is wrong with these people?
25
If you need your load of dishes to be clean in an hour, start the cycle two and a half hours ago or wash them by hand.
8
The Republican Party and their supporters are increasingly becoming one of the greatest threats to “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”. You can t have any of those three if your environment is poisoned.
Of course the rich will move to the spots still tolerable, pay more for food grown in advanced hydroponics and breathe filtered air in their homes, cars and maybe even on their person. But the vast majority will live in a dystopian cesspool of disease, disaster and constant death.
13
Al Gore says it best: the only infinitely renewable resource is the human will to save this planet and our place in it by cooperating with it. There are so many more of us who want everyone alive to have a shot at life and happiness than there are of those who want others to die so they can get more. The only reason they have an outsize voice is because their greed and willingness to cheat have bought power in the White House, the Senate, the House, and the federal courts including SCOTUS. Our defense is the ballot box. VOTE VOTE VOTE. Steel your will against these craven nihilists and bring your will to the polls. The children require you to do this.
12
People... Scrape of food and rinse your dishes off before putting them in the dishwasher - it will make a huge difference. Do not confuse a dishwasher with a garbage disposal unit.
It also helps if you keep you dishwasher in good shape by occasionally focus on cleaning the cleaner. Namely, properly addressing the funky gunk that accumulates in the dishwasher’s drain over time. If you let the gunk fester you are just spreading it all over your dishes when you run the unit. Yuck.
I recommend putting a little dishwashing detergent on the bottom and pouring in some left over boiling water, close it up and let it sit for a day; which will give the lye ample time (and energy) to chemically break down the gunk. Next time you run it, voila - goodbye gunk, goodbye funk.
2
@Jeff. With modern dishwashers, one should NOT pre-rinse. It will make the dishwasher less effective. See Consumer Reports.
5
This is not about how efficient dishwashers are. This is your neighbor burning his autumn leaves in a kerosene fire with fans blowing the fumes into your house "because I can." And because the guy who sells him the kerosene is making money.
18
Koch brothers have always based their successful political agenda on the fact that a lot of people have NO critical thinking.
16
Glad to read this article as it's a good summary of the overall situation with the interesting lede of dishwashers.
I only wish that some of the reporter's enthusiasm was a bit moderated. CO2 is not a powerful greenhouse gas, it's a weak one but is being released in large amounts. This inaccuracy can be seized on by fossil fuel supporters and needs to be corrected.
It seems to me that a major goal of today's conservatives is to oppose any advances in sustainability just to "troll the libs." I have heard complaints about lightbulbs, toilets and now dishwashers. I have never had any issues with any of these. My water-saving toilet works just fine, my LED light bulbs last for years and don't give off heat. And my new dishwasher cleans fantastically.
Why does a dishwasher need to work in under an hour anyway? Why aren't conservatives willing to endure the most minuscule inconveniences ... even if they conserve precious water or help ensure the survival of our planet? I genuinely dont understand their cost/benefit calculations.
18
There is no mystery to any of the things Ms. Tabuchi finds peculiar.
Donald Trump's life mission has become "erase all evidence of Barack Obama's existence".
Anything Obama did or oversaw at any point while president is fair game for Trump and the army of sycophantic admirers that do his dirty work. Trump will not rest until no one can remember who Barack Obama was.
10
@Joe With respect to your last sentence, in effect, he's most probably achieving the opposite as sane people will want to remember a real president …
3
A kind reminder of the article ,also in todays NY Times ,concerning bio fuel ,brought to you by Democrats as well.A complete ans total destruction of the rainforest in Indonesia in order to produce Palm oil for bio fuel. Now concluded by research to be a catastrophe for the environment on a global scale.
1
I wonder if in all these roll backs and attempts tp “make us great again,” will manufacturers returns us to a time when appliances lasted decades and we didn’t have to replace them with ever more costly models?
2
@Lori—that’s the only rollback I want as I contemplate replacing a range that’s less than ten years old
'“Why should the government mandate these models rather than leave the choice to consumers in the first place?” Mr. Kazman said.'
Because if the choice is left to the consumers, some will buy dishwashers that consume more energy, causing more climate change, and killing more people. Duh.
4
Perhaps it would help if there were some sort of feature on dishwashers that made it so you didn’t have to be handcuffed to the appliance before it finishes its cycle. Then maybe these folks could go outside or play with a child or read a book or google the meaning of the world selfishness or something fun.
12
Dear Manufacturer:
It's easy. Do not retool. Do not go backward. Just continue to make the currently compliant products.
Why? #1: IF any government agency ever tests your product; it will certainly meet the retro-rules, easily. So you are already compliant; backwards.
#2: When Trump and the GOP vanish next year, 100% of everything Trump has done- will be instantly rescinded. No question. So you'll need to meet - the specs you're already meeting.
Simple, yes? And you can quit spending money on convincing Trump - of anything. That's clearly an absolute waste of resources.
17
Savickas blaming environmental regulations for his dishwasher problems reminds me of the late Ted Stevens blaming Net neutrality for an email not reaching his computer until 2 days later in his infamous "Series of tubes" speech.
4
Reading this is like reading a script for a new sitcom about an administration run by very stupid yet evil people. Or a ditched Monty Python sketch found in drawer on a dusty attic.
In no time of human history should such backward thinking be tolerated, but now, considering the very acute and grave danger we are in, it must be recognized that the current government of the USA is committing a crime against humanity. It is clear that every day counts, every day that Trump and the Republicans are allowed to continue is two days lost in saving the planet. We are heading for the abyss and instead of pressing the brakes, Trump and the people behind him are pressing harder on the accelerator. Why?
Impossible to understand, but we don't need to. We just need to get them out of the drivers seat.
4
This is insane. Our Bosch dishwasher, not a high-end model, gets a full load clean in exactly one hour on the speed wash mode. All this means is that you air dry the dishes by propping the door open when the wash cycle is over, instead of having the appliance dry them for you.
This campaign is obviously an industry lobbying ploy.
1
@CK
Did you actually read the article? It states that the industry which makes home appliances for consumers is against the change.
3
@the Sanity Cruzer. Not the appliance industry lobbyists, the energy industry lobbyists.
When I read the headline I thought that the conservatives wanted to make things 'great' for the immigrants who labor underpaid and tirelessly in the kitchens of the expense account restaurants where the Kochs and their ilk freeload at the people's (i.e. the goverment's) expense. Fat chance.
8
“A libertarian think tank”
Now that’s an oxymoron for the ages.
9
I can usually do a sink full of dishes in about 15 minutes, although it probably does take about an hour for the dishes to dry on the rack, but that doesn't take any electricity. I don't need any exemptions, because my system works just fine. Us old fogeys ain't so dumb after all.
2
Nihilism is their watchword.
When will they get Mitch to propose legislation for systematic regular beatings of minority children, servings of hemlock for elders, and replacing school books with picture books of the Great Leader and his family's real estate and glorious doings?
9
How Much Are We Going To Take?
4
The term “depraved indifference” comes to mind whenever I think of this administration.
8
What brand of dianaw Asher does Mr. Savickas use? And has he shopped recently for a replacement?
Wow. This explains the "Tactical Dishwashers...the Greatest Gift Today's He-Male Can Give His Brood-Mare" solicitation I just got.
I thought it was a joke until I read the fine print which said I could win an assault rifle plus a year's worth of coal to heat my home. All I had to do was to fund a "freedom pass-through" donation to the NRA. This would be used by the not-for-profit merchants of death to buy Mitch McConnell's reelection bid.
9
“It’s confounding, it’s hard to explain, this blanket attack on regulations,”... No it's not. Obama did it, Trump hates it.
7
Facts mean nothing to those who ignore them.
5
I imagine the next step will be for Trump to hereby order all Americans to not purchase energy efficient appliances.
5
Why would anyone take the advice from a lobbyist who stands around and watches the dishwasher? Someone who has never washed a dish, perhaps?
4
Who in this administration is concocting these absurdities? By-the-way; I have the best dishwashers ever made: My two hands can beat a load of dishes, pots & pans crammed into a dishwasher- hands down (literally).
3
This from a bunch of guys who never washed a dish in their life.
12
Oh. My. God.
What happened to 'less government'?
7
It helps to have a sense of humor. To think that otherwise decent, quiet, hard-working Americans would vote for a Republican is a stretch. Government designed and operated by Kafka descendants. While my gut tells me to support impeachment, I'm beginning to think Speaker Pelosi is on to something: Let Trump destroy himself and his lapdogs.
6
I'm sorry Mr. Savickas doesn't like his dishwasher. This is an absurd way to replace it. If he likes the old ones better, perhaps he can advertise on eBay and fix it up like new, with his '57 Chevy out the window, his Victrola in the parlor, and his manual typewriter in his study.
9
Reader sighs... lifts jaw from floor...
8
Worried that today's dishwashers "take too much time?"
When I was growing up, my mother would use her dishwasher (all four dishwashers she owned between 1960-2016) at bedtime.
Now, during the night, who really gives a rat's whisker how long the dishwasher runs?
6
An earlier comment is incomplete, whether
published or not.
This is my comment and I admit I’m being semi foolish/ stupid in assumption/frustration!
You that did not vote for Hillary are getting karma.
I don’t believe always in opinion polls, and you should not
either.
Presidents Truman in 1948 & FDR in 1936 have proven them
as not infallible, but you are seemingly too young to know.
The dishwasher article tells me plenty enough about the crazy
regression the voters who hate Hillary helped in
creating.
If you are not angry after the dishwasher article,
then go ahead and dismiss politics as not
mattering all that much.
I read a nasty article in ROLLING STONE’s briefing
today about the cynic McConnell, and everybody
needs to read it too, please.
Pardon my anger, I’m usually careful in my rants.
10
I would like faster toast.
11
one more fossil fuel crony making a pitch to burn fuel. He's got to go. VOTE HIM OUT. LOCK HIM UP
8
“Make Dishwashers Great Again”?? Is this the twilight zone?
#FirstWorldProblems
10
This reads like an article in The Onion. How can any of this really be happening? What is wrong with people?
13
Reading some of these comments surprised me; I hope other people do not mind doing dishes by hand for both wash and dry.
I have not used a 'dishwasher' appliance in over 10 years, and My partner and I enjoy our conversation doing this task together.
1
Baloney! I purchased a new dishwasher this year and could not be happier with it. Sure, it takes three hours to clean, sanitize, and dry the dishes, but it is so quiet I don't even know it's running. It's at least an hour that I don't spend hand washing and scrubbing. My water bill is less because it uses less. It's not just environmentally friendly, it's family friendly.
Who needs clean dishes an hour after a meal anyway?
My daily ritual is to put breakfast dishes in, run a rinse cycle to get rid of food and smells, load dinner dishes in later and run a full cycle. Later in the evening they are done, but usually we don't empty the dishwasher until the next morning anyway.
I get it, mostly negative comments are going to come those not happy with newer technology. Far fewer positive comments will come from those who are happy. I'm one of the happy.
9
“It’s not our job to meet industry’s wishes,” he added. “At the end of the day, we’re answerable to the American people and not any particular interest group.”
I'm not sure where all this wailing and nashing of teeth over dishwashing times is coming from, but it isn't coming from purchasers of dishwashers. Every dishwasher I install has a "speed wash" or "1-hour wash" cycle. Frankly, the speed cycles do NOT get the dishes cleaner than the standard, longer wash cycles.
And, as these guys pushing for eliminating the "air dry" option on dishwashers? If so, that will instantly condemn every owner of fine china (with metallic or delicate trims) to hand washing since the higher washing and drying times will ruin fins china over time.
Seems to me - the building contractor project manager - that this is about foisting more energy consumption, with the coal, oil and natural gas producers make more money at the expense of everyone downstream of the natural resource producers.
8
How often are people eating to make it a problem to wait a couple hours for clean & dry dishes? And I'm asking as someone in a family of 6, so we probably use more than the average number of dishes. Faster dishwashers are a "solution" in search of a problem. Worse, they're a "solution" that will just create problems for the environment, with no corresponding benefit to people.
7
I run my dishwasher at bedtime, so I don't care how long it takes. By morning the dishes are always clean and it takes only a few minutes to put them away. I don't even run the dry cycle, but let them air dry.
We need stricter pollution standards on everything, despite Trump's denial of climate change. If the dishwasher takes a bit longer, so what. And by the way, you can run the quick cycle, which saves power and gets the dishes done sooner.
9
I don't have any difficulty with my high-efficiency dishwasher taking as long as it does, although someone who generates a load every meal, or once a day, might have more of a problem.
I have found that my high efficiency (clothing) washer dramatically slows me down when I'm trying to wash clothes. For much of my life, I had roughly 2.5 hours from the time when I got home from work until it was time to crawl into bed. A cycle with my previous washer required about 30 minutes, but the newer washer requires a bit over an hour. A dryer cycle requires about 30 minutes. So, whereas I used to be able to complete 4 loads in 2.5 hours, now I can complete only 2 loads in 2.5 hours.
I'm not sure how much energy and water consumption has dropped, but it needs be a lot in order to justify cutting my productivity in half. I'd really like to see the trade-off.
Here's a visual "schedule" of sorts illustrating how 2.5 hours gives me 4 loads with my old washer, but only 2 loads with my new washer (with each number representing 30 minutes):
1234- (Old Washer)
-1234 (Dryer)
1122- (New Washer)
--1-2 (Dryer)
3
@Paul
I don't have a dishwasher. But I agree with your complaint about laundry taking way too long.
2
@Paul
This is a reminder that your washer is doing the washing and you can go about and do whatever the heck you want while your appliances do the work.
You can go shopping, play tennis, watch a football game, or just watch your television and, voila, the clothes will be washed for you when you get back. It's amazing.
You've come a long way, baby.
3
@Paul
What do you do that necessitates doing all your laundry in one evening? Have you considered doing 2 loads a night a couple of times a week?
Maybe you should consider selling your hi-efficiency appliances and take your dirty clothes to a laundry or laundromat. It would be less stressful and free up some of your valuable time.
4
This is crazy. I only try to buy energy star appliances, I only buy high mpg cars, LEDs, energy efficient furnace and everything else energy efficient when able. Saves money, electricity, water, gas and the environment. I don’t want dirty air, water or foods. Who would?
25
I have an American made dishwasher (3 years old) that is both energy efficient and QUIET. It also has short cylces for lightly soiled dishes. So, for me, it all works. But, recently I thought I might replace my 20-year-old washing machine with a new "efficiency" model. I was surprised by the number of online reviewers who were struggling to get their clothes clean. Some had to run the cycle several times. In the end, I kept my old washing machine. It uses about 200 gallons a month, but my yard requies 20,000 gallons a month in the summer. Guess where I need to cut back?
8
@Kris Abrahamson
I have a 4.5 year old washer, agitator-less type. My clothing gets clean the first time without any problems at all. I mix colors and whites and wash on tap cold with a color grabber. It's usually the detergent and the settings that make the difference. Look at Consumer Reports or another reliable tester and you'll find the right washer for you. But the lawn is another issue...
3
@Kris Abrahamson
There's a lot of variation in the way to get clothes 'clean'. Some wash really needs to be in hot water, others in warm. almost nothing gets clean in cold. Water can cause stains due to minerals in the water, or pipes, or using the old hoses, or even the water heater needing and anode. People are lazy about cleaning their water heaters, that can cause problems with clothes staining.
1
@Glenda probably very oily clothes do need hot water, but I find that for everything else, a prespotting and soaking do the job in cold water. My whites are bright as are my colors. It takes a little longer, but no extra water, power or effort on my part.
1
I have one of those old dishwashers it makes more noise than a Boeing 747 on takeoff, uses more electricity than Times Square at Christmas, and uses enough water to fill Lake Michigan.
If FreedomWorks wants “Rusty Betty” my dishwasher I’ll mail to them for free.
44
Run the dishwasher when you go to bed or go to work. Then the length of the cycle doesn't matter at all.
I still don't understand the constituency for this change. If manufacturers aren't complaining and consumers are demanding better washers, why is this being done? On the word of one organization that is pushing the rule change "on our principles"?
10
@Hank
Be careful! Running water when you are asleep or away is risky. Things can go very wrong and very quickly your home is flooded.
2
@Marian,
Thanks for the advice, but I've been doing it > 50 years with multiple dishwashers and I haven't had a flood or been hit by an asteroid yet.
8
If the coal industry wants consumers to decide, then they shoud be okay with the price of electricity including all the pollution and climate change externalities so consumers have good pricing information. But of course they want to have their cake and to eat it too... to continue freeloading on a public good (the environment) while maximizing private profits.
22
Putting aside the slash-and-burn deregulatory mindset of the Trump Administration, there's one simple fact any dishwasher user should know: If you absolutely can't wait the 2 to 3 hours for a cycle to complete, use the quick wash cycle. That cycle is essentially the same as the old energy hog cycles.
We've heard these complaints about many tougher efficiency standards, including low-flow toilets and lightbulbs.
Maybe the real solution for these retrogressive Republicans is to let them return to their imagined glory days and do away with modern technology and energy savings that benefit all of us and the planet.
So no dishwashers, no lightbulbs, no-low-flow toilets, alternative energy, or electric vehicles. They can wash their dishes by hand, ready by candlelight, use an outhouse, and ride a horse and buggy.
32
@Steven S Not to mention keep your own chickens (perfectly legal in many cities) and eat their eggs. Chicken in every pot. Victory garden carrots & tomatoes. Harder to come by: home-grown bacon. Harder still: home-grown T-Bone steaks.
3
@Steven S,
I'm all for letting them have a choice in what era they want to live in - the 1950's (where, by now, most of them never actually lived through that era) or the late 1700's (when every "real man" had a gun, women were kept in their place, only white land-owning citizen could vote and most had a life expectancy of 45 or less.
The former group would have to live with cars that had no safety equipment, got 12 - 15 miles per gallon, wore out in 3 - 5 years, used powered crank clothes washers with line drying only, and they had a 35% chance of getting polio.
The latter group is sentenced to living as their idyllic Articles of Confederation-like lifestyle: use a road/waterway/bridge/tunnel, pay a toll; no indoor plumbing, no hot water (except what they can boil in a pot), grow all your own food (or barter with neighbors for food stuffs), heating and cooking done with wood stoves, own as many single-shot muzzle-loading weapons as they can afford, no medicine, no education, no TV/Internet/Phone service ...
If they don't see the error of their ways, they'll die of dysentery, cholera, polio, parasite, or of their own Darwin Award-like stupidity.
7
@ronaldholden
And they can have muskets instead of AR-15s so it wouldn't be all bad!
6
I enjoy washing dishes by hand, but I stopped years ago because it uses 5-10 times more power and water than using a dishwasher. People need to do the research
27
@HW. Me too, and I was actually disappointed to learn this, as I prefer washing dishes by hand.
1
It's not about dishwashers -- it's just part of the Trump culture war to stoke the base. Like his rallying cry to save hamburgers, plastic straws, good old-fashioned light bulbs, coal fired power plants, internal combustion cars and, more generally, the status quo from the pre-global economy, he is arguing for the lifestyle his supporters now mourn. But we are not in 1950, 1960 or 1970. In 2020, we must simply throw the bums out.
100
I don't think his base even supports this. These energy efficiency standards are generally popular. There's a small group of Republicans who just want to wreck the environment to own the libs.
9
It's staggering how the right keeps on pushing these policies that have pretty much no public support.
56
Is Trump trying to roll back regulations designed to improve the environment which would allow manufacturers to produce market driven products, or is he trying to create regulations that demand the continued destruction of the environment and the continued creation of products which will pollute?
It seems as if Trump, recognizing that Obama acted to protect the environment, is heckbent on destroying it.
41
@Cathy That's exactly it. Trump is completely obsessed with Obama. He still can't believe that an African-American became President. He wants to destroy everything associated with Obama and since Trump has no empathy and doesn't care about the lives of his children or grandchildren, doesn't care about their (or our ) environmental well-being. So he's pushing a rollback of regulations that even industry doesn't want him to do.
10
@Cathy,
You're on to something.
Frankly, if any does the long-term analysis on all of these various programs (rolling back energy-efficiency and pollution reduction standards), Trump is killing US-based businesses. No one is asking to go back to energy-hog appliances, noxious fume-spilling autos that average 15 MPG, darkened skies (from pollution and cloud formation caused by heavy particulate pollution in the air), etc.
Only the most Libertarian Trump sycophants would want to take a Giant Leap Backward.
9
Ok, people. Here's how to have a dishwasher that sparks joy: (1) Read the reviews of dishwashers on the Consumer Union website (join for $5). (2) Buy a good dishwasher based on your research, (3) Read the booklet that came with the dishwasher so that you know where the filters are & how to remove them for cleaning- and clean them frequently! (4) Always run the water hot before running a load, so that the dishwasher isn't using cold water. (I do the handwashing first, fill the coffeemaker, & fill the plant watering can). I use Dropps dishwasher pods, & I have a Bosch. My dishes are always sparkling clean.
13
@Carol Dishwashers do not pull from the hot water tap. They pull from the cold and heat it themselves with an element in the bottom of the machine.
2
@Carol
We have a 20 year old Bosch....its the bee's knee's!
3
My Kitchen Aid dishwasher that was purchased on sale and we got it because it matched our stove and refrigerator is junk. I rewash many dishes even though it’s on the tough cycle. I do not want to kill the environment but I would like to have a decent product that works!
5
Try to stop pre-rinsing your dishes and you’ll find your dishwasher will work better. From consumer reports:
Up until about a decade ago, you had to prerinse dirty plates, bowls, and glasses in the sink before loading them into the dishwasher to ensure your dishes came out clean. Now, most dishwashers work better if you don't prerinse them. Electronic soil sensors scan how dirty the water is at the beginning of a load and automatically adjust the wash cycle based on the amount of grime they detect.
“Prerinsing tricks the dishwasher into thinking the dishes are clean so that it cuts the cycle short, which may leave your dishes dirty,” says Ciufo. He's aware that prerinsing may be a hard habit to break. Even he had a difficult time getting his own mother to stop hand-rinsing. “People are creatures of habit!” says Ciufo.
29
Wow, interesting! Thanks!
3
@Lisa
Poor Lisa, she bought the wrong dishwasher and thinks all Americans should pay for her mistake for some reason. Conservatives complain about anything and everything.
7
There are 2 of us so I go old school, finding it easier to use the dishwasher only for larger meals like Thansgiving.
After each meal I wet all of the dishes, pots, glasses and untensils and try to remove every bit of food with my wet fingers until each item (except for the pots sometimes) looks perfectly clean.
Then I squeeze the tiniest dollop of dishwashing liquid (a regular size dishwashing liquid lasts almost a year) onto a scrunge and scrub all of the clean looking items.
Then I rinse each item and put them in the dishrack where every one will be dry to use again for the next meal.
Is there some advantage I can't see to stockpiling additional dishes, utensils etc. in the dishwasher until it's full versus cleaning our 2 plates, cups, knives etc. immediately after eating and fetching each item from the dish rack to reuse for the next meal?
5
Yes, time has value— and that’s why we load dirty objects and detergent into an appliance, turn it on and walk away. I can’t think of a single time when I was aggravated by the length of time my energy star appliances took.
Given foreign recognition of climate change, I would think that foreign market share for inefficient American products would decline.
But we’re in the Trump presidency, so let’s not let facts get in the way of far right ideology.
76
As with all consumer products, the consumer should be the one to choose the dishwasher most suitable to his particular needs. It is absurd that the government should be mandating these kinds of things. Are we going to start mandating that everyone own a compact car; restrict the size of our homes; limit leisure air travel to once per year; limit the annual number of miles we can drive for pleasure; etc? Does individual liberty mean anything anymore or are we intent on going the way of the Soviet Union?
10
@Hanoch
The government doesn't "mandate" these kinds of things. You're simply making stuff up.
8
@Hanoch
If you can discover how to drive big cars and fly all we want without wrecking countless millions of lives, I'll be the first to recommend you for a Nobel prize.
5
@Hanoch your liberty to move your hand stops when it reaches my nose. Your liberty to buy what you want stops when it messes up our environment and kills my liberty to live happily and ensure my grandkids can, as well.
11
I already have LED light bulbs. I do my dishes at night. I just want to be able to open the lid of my top loading washer.
8
I have lived decades of my life without a dishwasher
I usually hand wash my dishes.
I really don't mind washing dishes by hand either
Am I the only one left?
17
@FerCry'nTears No, you're not the only one left. ;)
2
It is a fact universally acknowledged that Republicans do not like being told what to do - and even less so if it might prevent them from filching another nickel somewhere. All the regulatory gambits Trump is following respond to the mind set of a certain class of people: wealthy, white, overweight, older men you would meet in the locker room of an exclusive resort or country club, IOW, Trump’s client base. That’s America to him. And why not? They have the money and so it stands to reason they get to make the irrational decisions for everyone... right?
29
@Pottree Those wealthy, white, overweight men you'd meet in the bar. They don't break a sweat so probably aren't in the locker room.
1
@Pottree. Wow, call names much? Generalize much? Guess that's what one does when lacking a comment of substance -- just hurl insults.
1
@Judy Harmon Smith
You mean like Trump does? Pocahontas, Sleepy Joe Low Energy Jeb, etc.?
6
Daniel Simmons, assistant secretary for energy efficiency and renewable energy, defended the department’s actions.
“People’s time is a nonrenewable resource. People get frustrated when their appliances take longer, whether it’s dishwashers or washing machines,” he said.
My taxes are paying this guy's salary??!!
At one point can I deflect the advice of Sam Harris and allow myself to be publicly outraged about the actions of this administration and not be concerned that it makes "his base" drool when I do?
Alas, on to read about how he is going to kill CA's emission standards.
55
Tired of waiting hours or even minutes for clean dishes, tell your representative that you want instantly clean dishes. Pesky regulation against nuclear-powered dishwashers has cost you valuable time for too long. Never mind the environmental cost, the negative health effects, or the enormous price tag. We want are our clean dishes and we want them now!!!
98
@Gary Steinberg
Or just repeal the 13th Amendment and order the slaves to wash our stuff. Good thing the Equal Rights Amendment never passed, so wives can also be required to do it. Oh, wait, that wouldn’t be in my best interests.
Never mind.
And yes, this is satire, sorry it’s offensive but that’s the point.
9
Soon, I'll be able to buy a coal fired dishwasher. Awesome! You can add lead back into my gasoline too, as long as it costs $.27/9 a gallon, like in 1971. /s
66
@not meshuggah
Or just keep buying disposable dishes and don’t bother to recycle. Everything tastes better on styrofoam, right?
12
If they really wanted better dishwashers, they'd start a dishwasher company.
23
As sea level rises and more destructive weather destroys large human population, the vain will marvel that their dishwasher is completed in such short time.
I had thought religious leaders warned about the pitfall of vanity?
27
Who can't wait for their dishwasher to run a longer cycle, use less energy, and save money?
MAGA by defeating Trump in the next election.
Television star indeed. This is real life. Push him and his friends back into the swamp from where they came.
57
This is nuts. Sure my dishwasher takes nearly two and a half hours to do the same job older models did in a hour 15 years ago, but the dishes come out as clean as they always did.
This is the same baloney that conservatives are using to try and keep incandescent light bulb as the standard (and it is clear that Trump never heard of LED as he said the florescent ones made him orange).
And, of course, the crazy rationale to nullify California's stricter mileage standards is that they will actually reduce safety because the higher costs of cars will force people to keep less efficient cars.
Wow, any lie to get what you want, and with hope get to a conservative SCOTUS majority that will say that the Founding Fathers never addressed dishwashers, incandescent bulbs or automobiles, so neither should the Federal government.
43
My dishwasher uses only 2 to 3 gallons of water for an entire cycle depending on length. This is perfect because I live in drought prone California. Any more would be a waste. C’mon people, if you really love you children save a little for tomorrow.
60
I live in Texas, which also has water problems. We run our quiet dishwasher right before bed.
7
“We wouldn’t be surprised if they support this initiative — especially if they do their own dishes.”
Pretty much says it all...does the man actually know anyone who (gasp) does their own dishes?
19
Let's eliminate all fuel efficient vehicles. Set a standard requiring a minimum for pollution . MAGA
8
Haha! When Trump was elected, I ripped my dishwasher out because I never used it and replaced the empty space in the counter with a wine cooler...which, ever since he has been in office I use daily.
128
@Annie's mom...your comment made my day. Thank you.
7
@Annie's mom
Excellent. And I started buying Wine by the Case. 20 percent discount. Seriously.
8
@Carrie after DJT was elected I went in for my annual physical. My doctor, a wonderful woman, asked me the usual drinking question. My response was: "before or after the election." She said: "you know, we were just discussing this in a staff meeting this morning and the thought is to not ask the question until November 2020.
16
They don’t promote these ideas because they are conservatives, they just happen to be conservative. They promote these ideas because the Koch Foundation and others funded by the oil and gas industries pay them to promote these ideas. The purpose is secretive though the arguments are public.
This just another example of the corruption of conservatives, Republicans, and Trump. Their time in power is being used to increase their wealth, not to promote the public welfare. In many cases, such as dishwasher energy efficiency or auto mileage improvement, they don’t even have the approval of the industries they claim to be helping. This doesn’t make sense unless you following the money to oil and gas interests.
Forget Medicare for All! Corruption is the issue that will defeat Trump. Middle to lower middle class voters were fooled in 2016 into thinking he was on their side. It has become clearer and clearer that the only side he favors is his own bottom line. Run the lying, cheating, thieving bum out in 2020, then put him in jail.
70
The new GE dishwasher that came with my newly renovated 1922 home seven years ago works better than any dishwasher I ever had. Time? I turn it on before I watch TV or read after dinner and it is done long before I go to bed.
Note: I rarely use the heated dry cycle. Just open and let everything dry overnight. Saves energy and money!
The Koch Brothers probably consider me a communist for my comments.
85
@Greg
Same here. I’ve never used the heated dry cycle ever. Always opened the door at end of cycle to flash dry the dishes.
11
At least one of them does if you also read the NYT. The other one’s opinions are no longer as important.
7
If your dishwasher, new or otherwise, is performing poorly, try changing the detergent. I've lived with many models over the years, and have found most work best with a particular brand.
Who are these impatient folk who need their dishes done in an hour, and why? Are they generating 24 loads every day? Are they running a B&B out of their house? Do they turn in for the night an hour after dinner?
Are they unaware they don't have to sit in front of the washer, watching and waiting for it to finish? Did they mistake it for the TV? Seriously, what is the thought process here?
126
These people don't really exist, but the "think tanks" funded by the oil and gas industry do exist and have Trimp's ear, as long as it results in more rollbacks of all the good things Obama accomplished. Sad.
16
"Much of the support for these rollbacks has come instead from a small group of conservative, free market organizations, many allied with the fossil fuel industry."
The people like the Kochs and their agents who are out to make sure fossil fuels get used at all costs are on the wrong side of history. They will be remembered the same way that segregationists and pre-World War 2 isolationists are remembered.
47
They will be remembered the same way we recall the leading buggy whip and whalebone corset makers and producers of patent remedies for cattar.
3
Lord Help Us! I live alone and, yes, I have a dishwasher which has never been used. I will sometimes soak a skillet but generally wash everything immediately and air dry on a towel. When I did have a family at home and a dishwasher I do not recall ever wishing it would run faster. Overall those products are faster, cheaper, use less water and, if you follow the directions, produce a superior product. Are they somehow related to the windmills that produce cancer?
46
Two or three years ago I replaced my contractor grade (sounds like a jet engine) dishwasher with a low end energy star Whirlpool dishwasher and never had a problem. Nada! Works great and you hardly know it’s working.
I’ve also replaced many appliances, timer thermostat, led/cf/quartz light bulbs, timers, cellular shades and added more attic insulation to R54(?). Small investments. My averaged monthly all electric bill is $140-150 in the DC area.
41
Old dishwashers were basically meant to be used with phosphate detergent. Their cycles don’t work effectively with modern phosphate-free detergents. Maybe this is why people think it’s a problem?
My modern Bosch dishwasher with Costco generic pods works fantastic, everything is super clean. Only dried on peanut butter is ever an issue. Using the pods is also helpful because you get the exact right detergent amount and chemistry. You also need to use a rinse aid.
These days, dishwashers are more about chemistry than high-pressure hydrology.
32
You need a dog.
4
The Coal brothers,(Koch means coal-or a form of coking coal used in the manufacture of steel), are or were struck by a form of insanity that took the form of libertarianism. I am positive that, were both alive-they'd , once more, call for the removal of the water in the Great Lakes to the SOuth and the West via huge pipelines-mostly so orange and fruit growers in desert areas could grow crops never meant for the US ,or our desert West. Similarly, after the great Dust Bowl era when Western state's land was blown away in huge wind storms, during a mega drought. Rather than change, once the farmers discovered a limited water supply in a deep aquifer, began to plant and tear up the land again, blowing precious H2O all over as though it was champagne at a Superbowl. Like they were all billionaires and had inherited keys to the Treasury. The Aquifer is now all but empty. Previous tries to steal the Great Lakes water failed(it is Canadian, too), but the Dishwasher lobby-led by the Coals, is still sure they can bring back the 1940's when no one thought of the consequences of anything .
30
@meloop
"Too many Kochs spoil the breath."
2
@meloop
"Koch" means cook. Coal is Kohle and coke (the coal product) is Koks, I believe.
1
I had no idea that long-running dishwashers were such a horrifying problem. In my family we've always just run the dishwasher in the evening and emptied it in the morning.
I've also never had a problem with an efficient dishwasher not getting my dishes clean - even if I don't rinse the dishes first. Clean your filter.
71
Trump and the GOP continue to wage war on the environment and consumer protection. Even the industries that Trump claims he is protecting, do not want these weaker laws.
Surely such regressive anti environmental changes are out of step with the need for greater environmental and consumer protection?
26
It should be noted that these "rollbacks" are not mandates.
If the industries involved (autos, dishwashers, etc.) feel like their current models are the best available at a competitive price, and/or that any changes would adversely affect them, then they are absolutely free to continue producing and selling those exact products that they currently make.
Also, consumers have been purchasing more energy efficient, cars, light bulbs, appliances in greater & greater numbers long before most of these recent energy mandates were initiated, That trend will certainly not reverse itself, simply because of these revisions in federal requirements.
16
@CPBrown You're right, which begs the question: What's the point of rolling these standards back?
3
@James S So he can brag to his base about how he's making America great again. They don't know the difference!
3
We just replaced our 28-year-old dishwasher so these issues are top of mind for me! First of all, it really does take a lot longer...but, honestly it doesn't bother me because -- as others have noted -- i don't really need for it to be faster.
2nd, at the Home Depot where we purchased it (btw, there aren't any family-owned little appliance stores anymore in our tow so we had no choice but to enter the super store), we were given the impression by the sales woman that the dishes wouldn't get dry ("they've made them all energy efficient now") unless we added a "rinse aid" to the dishwasher in addition to the detergent. But what I did was simply press the button "extra dry" and there have been zero issues.
And now for the good -- OMG have dishwashers changed for the better! Quieter. My dishes are actually clean. Easy to load. A pleasure to view. Lower power bills. Have any of these folks complaining actually tried out one of the new machines?
131
@Southern Hope
Yes, the new machines are nice. One thing is for sure, it's very unlikely your new dishwasher will last 28 years as the old one did.
13
@Southern Hope
Glad to read the benefits of newer, efficient dishwashers. Only nit picking would be the the decision to push the "extra dry" button. that uses considerable energy. I do the opposite and disable the dry choice. They are always dry when I open and put away. Water has a tendency to evaporate regardless. If around when it finishes the cycle, one can always just open the door and let in the fresh air to dry the already warm dishes.
10
@Southern Hope
Charles is right. You’ll be lucky if the dish rack lasts a year before you need to buy some plastic parts that cost $50-100 to replace.
2
If there’s one thing that you can bank obits that the fossil fuel industry is behind most efforts to weaken energy efficiency standards, not the manufacturers of the products.
32
Only in 2019 can actual news make me laugh this hard. Seriously?
Want to make dishwashers great again? Criminalize planned obsolescence by manufacturing corporations. The 4 major appliances I have purchased in the past 10 years all needed their motors replaced within the first 3 years. And I know I am not alone.
Energy Star is essential. But making appliances thy actually WORK and LAST should be essential too.
56
@K
I had a 38 y/o (yes 38) Maytag washer. It cleaned very well and very fast. In 38 years I had only one significant repair bill. The drum finally rusted out.
Had to buy a new HE washer. Nothing but trouble. Takes forever to wash a load. The day I bought it the Maytag man said I will be lucky to get 10 years. I will likely shoot it before year 5.
3
@K—I’m with you. I hate such egregious planned obsolescence!
4
@Concernicus. @K—I’m with you. I hate such egregious planned obsolescence!
Truly amazing. Does the Competitive Enterprise Institute actually do product comparisons with older appliances or are their assertions based solely on a few anecdotes and an ideology that starts with the assumption that older energy guzzling dishwashers are better?
Organizations like Consumer Reports do actual product testing. Here's their lede on dishwashers:
"Today’s dishwashers use about half the water and energy that dishwashers used 20 years ago. Thanks to tougher federal efficiency standards, water usage is down to about 4 to 6 gallons per load—and less water means less energy required to heat the water...
“When manufacturers reduced the water use to meet the standard, they had to extend wash times and recirculate the water so that dishes would still get clean,” says Larry Ciufo, an engineer who oversees CR’s tests...
You’ll find more than 130 dishwashers in our ratings, and roughly a quarter of them earn Excellent ratings for cleaning and energy efficiency, and drying that’s impressive."
https://www.consumerreports.org/dishwashers/energy-efficient-dishwashers-that-clean-well-save-money/
If conservative ideologues are not interested in abstract goals like preserving natural resources and slowing climate change, aren't they at least interested in clean dishes and lower utility bills at the same time?
What is wrong with these people?
173
@Lew
My new dishwasher cleans better than any I've ever owned, using either the regular cycle of the quick wash cycle. Not to mention that it is a lot quieter than dishwashers used to be. It sure seems that the complaints with today's dishwashers are politically motivated.
20
“People’s time is a nonrenewable resource. People get frustrated when their appliances take longer, whether it’s dishwashers or washing machines,” according to an assistant flunky in the D.O.E.
I really have never once said or thought, “I wish my dishwasher was faster.”
My life is a nonrenewable resource. I would prefer to live what remains in a world where humans recognize climate change and work to correct the errors that brought us to this.
241
@Dunn Arceneaux
you must watch a lot of TV. I learned that washing dishes with a machine is boring and inefficient. That when I do it by hand I use less H2O and I get to talk with other people and family in the kitchen. I do have a dishwasher-but have refused to use the noise box for 20 years-and now many kids ridicule me- (they ridicule me for not smoking, now!-Though I once kept unfiltered Lucky-Strikes in my T shirt shoulder sleeve, above my track scars and the switchblade in my back pocket.
As we age, we grow. Eventually we realize what is truly important in life, and I know, now, it ain't dishwashers-fast or slow.
(I now use the dishwasher as a hiding place to keep sweets out of nephew hands and mouths.)
4
I would like to apply for the assistant flunky position. I would first advocate for the abolition of child-safety caps, because they are annoying. I also want Dannon yogurt to go back to using plastic lids for their yogurt, instead of the eco-foil they're currently using, because I liked to save the yogurt containers to hold leftovers. I am also annoyed that I have to spend my valuable time getting the first square of toilet paper off the roll and plan to enact legislation to correct that.
15
I don’t understand. My dishwasher works way better than the first one my mom bought back in the day. Are they going to make it more noisy, because that’s noise pollution. I think if you get rid of ‘built ins,’ there would be more water and energy use. Back in the day, only rich people had dishwashers, is that the plan?
I have a real hard time wrapping my head around these organizations, these people. I mean, they have to be secret. Who can say, my job is to make you use more energy, pollute more, use more toxic products without sounding like a super crazy person who needs to redo ten more years of kindergarten, at least. Seriously, these are people who need to be watched at all times, made to sing with the hand gestures, only be allowed to use the blunt edged scissors and edible crayons. No glue. Why are we letting them do these things?
81
@Morgan We are letting them do that because we, liberals, keep telling ourselves that no thinking person would suggest such nonsense. We should know better but for some reason we never learn. So we’ll sleep tight hopping the Supreme Court (yeah, that Kavanaugh guy) will somehow fix it.
4
@Morgan It's not hard to wrap your head around these organizations. This is the fossil fuel industry and they worship at the alter of the dollar. And they don't care about the welfare of your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. They want their money and to hell with future generations.
BUT - when sea levels rise and their seaside homes are threatened, they will be first in line for a government handout to protect their property.
9
When exactly did conservatives become wrong about virtually every issue?
Even corporations, the constituents they most want to please, don't agree with them anymore!
But no, we MUST find ways to waste more water and more energy! Freedom itself is at stake!
202
@Bryan
'Society is, indeed, a contract....[I]t becomes a partnership not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born.'--Edmund Burke
What would Burke have said about 'conservatives' prepared to sacrifice our grandchildren's environment for a quicker load of dishes?
14
@Matthew
Yeah, I agree. I had to read Burke (and about him) in grad school. David Brooks talks about him a lot as a kind of "voice of reason".
But has become of that reason on the right side of the political spectrum?
4
It did take awhile for the lighting industry to made a better light bulb, but they did and I for one would not go back to the old ones.
It was really worth the wait.
123
Our energy star dishwasher gets the dishes much cleaner than the old one did. We like the water savings because our water here is very expensive. The machine is also so quiet we can't hear it running.
We start the machine at bedtime when electricity rates are the cheapest, and though it is done in a couple hours, we don't need clean dishes at 2am. We need them in the morning, long after the machine is done.
It also has a "fast wash" feature that does the dishes much faster, but we've never used it because we don't need it.
This is probably really about the Koch's ability to control the government however they wish, to use their money to make the rules. They think they are the smartest because they are the richest.
They are not libertarians at heart, but rather behind-the-scenes dictators.
314
I have never thought to time a dishwasher’s cycle; I turn it on at bedtime and empty it in the morning, usually every two to three days. I love my energyStar appliances because they use less energy and water, but especially because modern dishwashers are so quiet.
Clean dishes are more a matter of water hardness, temperature setting, skill at loading, and detergent choice. Just like your success with a shampoo depends on your local water, there is a detergent that performs best; an honest plumber or repairman will advise, but only if you ask. Cascade Platinum beats everything I’ve ever used, even with hard well water.
66
I recently brought a Bosch and it cleans fine. Maybe some just work better.
33
@Areader
Made in Europe, not America!
1
@Susan in NH
It was almost certainly made in New Bern, NC or LaFolette, TN.
My Bosch is almost 20 years old and was almost certainly made in a US factory.
It is DEFINITELY better than any of the old-school US brands I've ever seen.
3
I'm for this. My sister's dishwasher does take 2.5 hours. What? And my friend says her dishwasher doesn't even clean the coffee from the cups. Until they improve the technology, roll back the energy efficiency rules.
6
@Frequent Flier
I guess your sister and friend's complaints offset all the positive testing and independent performance reviews by professionals (Consumer Reports, etc). Such is the state of "science" in Trump's America.
146
@Frequent Flier
Your friend needs a better dishwasher. Mine takes between 1 hour and 3 depending on the settings, is very quiet even with a built in garbage disposal, and doesn't require pre-rinsing. It was about $500.
75
Try better detergent for the coffee cups or just wipe hem before they go in.
Not every chemical is perfect for the job. Similar to getting mineral spots from tap water off your windows.
31
When your objective in government is simply to do as little as possible and obstruct as much as possible, these are the damning results. Not only is government drowned in a bathtub, the interests of the people are drowned as well. When Dick Cheney sequestered the big oil interests in secret to plan the overthrow of public interests in favor of corporate profits, we started down this road. These private think tanks begin with the premise that the world is theirs to ruin; which they probably will.
113
MAGA
Make America Grey Again
Grey Skies
Grey Water
Grey Industry
Grey Land
Grey SWIL for you, Gold for me!
MAGA!
117
Superb. Fortunately the men behind this scheme are rather grey too—between that and our youth's protests, there's still hope for our future.
15
Don't forget MAPA! Make America Pollute Again!
5
@SR
Yes, and those grey men probably never washed a dish nor loaded a dishwasher.
4
Is there nothing Trump won't do for these fossil fools?
239
Is there anyone really stupid enough to fall for this? Will retailers perpetuate this farce?
90
Gosh, don't we all just long for the good old days when we could set the rivers on fire, taste the air we breathe, put leaded gas in our cars and leaded paint on our walls, use asbestos to insulate our houses and schools, throw giant metal lawn darts in our yards, and rustle up a few friends to serve some good ol' fashioned American justice on anyone who looks at us the wrong way. So glad the Kochs and the dishwasher lobby is on top of this pressing issue.
417
@jrinsc
Now all we need is a modern-day William Levitt to keep our suburbs racially exclusive and we will truly be great again.
25
@jrinsc
Hear, hear!! Why do these soft-hearted liberals think they have the right to impose all these draconian regulations upon us!! If I want to drive around in my car, I should be able to do so like we did in the early 60's: no seat belts, air bags, anti-lock brakes, or other safety equipment. It's my God given right to kill myself if it will save a few bucks off the sticker price of the car. (Nevermind that I walked away from two crashes with only a slight bruise, from what would have been serious or possibly fatal crashes, years ago.) The government doesn't have the right to determine if I live or die (except on cases involving female reproduction decisions!).
27
@Pat
And there was this developer in Queens who did the same for his apartment buildings....
12