what dangers that are becoming known today are no different from reading about vaping and Popcorn Lung 10 years ago. simply put taking anything other than the air we breath is harmful to your lungs. in the early days of this new smoking technology the chemical that makes up the bulk of Anti-Freeze was in the formula. now no one in their right mind would consume anti-freeze willingly. i bet these backyard providers of illicit vape equipment probably are using the worst chemicals.
41
@daniel r potter You are confusing propylene glycol and ethylene glycol. The latter was formerly used in antifreeze and is quite toxic; the latter is now used to make non-toxic antifreeze. Propylene glycol is used in various edible items such as coffee-based drinks, liquid sweeteners, ice cream, whipped dairy products and soda. Vaporizers used for delivery of pharmaceuticals or personal-care products often include propylene glycol among the ingredients. Propylene glycol is used as a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations. Certain formulations of artificial tears, such as Systane, use proplyene glycol as an ingredient.
52
Ken, sorry, but you are half right. Compounds that may not be toxic if injected or consumed orally or in small doses may be very dangerous if heated and inhaled as a vapor. Those that are heavy users of vape products are themselves addicted and vape very often. Example, vitamin E oil. There has been too much of a rush to market these products with insufficient investigation and regulation. I am not for banning them out right, but they need to be regulated to avoid a public health crisis that we all will pay for. As for those treating this as an illicit drug business, they need to be held accountable. Unfortunately there will always be a percentage of any population that makes bad choices and that engages in risky behavior. But those that prey upon them need to be relieved of their freedom since they are a menace to society. And I for one don’t want anyone saying such incarceration would be inappropriate since it is ‘non violent behavior’. Will their always be bad people preying on weaker individuals? Yes. But we do not have to turn a blind eye to it.
15
@Wilmington EDT; I'm confused about your example of "vitamin E oil" in the context of vaping when the use of this oil is as a TOPICAL, lotion or salve, not to be inhaled.
However, it has been found in the e-liquid that made many people ill.
4
Vaping should be banned, as should all cigarettes. Distribution should provided through pharmacies for the addicted, as well as free rehab and medication. I certainly don't blame the victims of the tobacco industry and their pimps such as Hollywood who continue to promote tobacco. There should of course be no prosecution of smokers or vapers but the capitalist profiteers should be crushed with the full weight of the law for the massive human suffering they have inflicted. Al Queda and ISIS are children compared the mass murders caused by the nicotine industries. They should be treated as the drug cartels they are.
30
Add marijuana to your list, too. Smoking is smoking. Inhaling burning marijuana leaves is no more a safe, healthy habit than is inhaling burning tobacco leaves. Lungs are meant to breathe air. Smoke is not air. Smoke is pollution.
7
@hey nineteen
"Inhaling burning marijuana leaves is no more a safe, healthy habit than is inhaling burning tobacco leaves."
Citation please. I'm almost 100% positive that statement is incorrect.
13
mandate virtual carding of vape devices by pairing the devices with cell phone apps that verify age. under age? no ignition.
1
As a legal user of these products I have come across these “smart carts” they are half the price of legally obtained. But only a few puffs put me off as something other than the real deal. I abandoned one and several weeks later it was full of crystals, real oils don’t do that.
Just simply legalize it and monitor manufacturing
2
Human brain seeks addictions- sugar, nicotine, booze, THC, opioids - you name it. Modern societies and economies thrive on profiteering -fueled by advertisement and luring younger people. Ethics/ morals are not important anymore in a world where having good personality is considered better than having a good character.
Everything is rather simply explainable, understandable , obvious and tragic. But then we have appetite for tragic dramas too .
1
This area of Wisconsin is actually part of suburban Chicagoland. This is Wisconsin, like Falls Church is Virginia. There would be a large market for these products in the northern suburrbs and Willinois.
Thanks for reiterating that this is a black market THC cartridge vaping problem, not a vaping-in-general problem.
Why do you think vaping has been around for over 10 years and all of a sudden these respiratory illnesses start popping up? It’s because regulations keep us safe. The longer we keep marijuana illegal in this country, the longer we’ll have to wait for safe marijuana consumption. Make marijuana legal, and regulate it’s purity. Imagine if alcohol were illegal. Do you think people would stop drinking, and brewing? Do you think black market alcohol would be safe?
The 2020 election can’t come soon enough. We need responsible gun and drug laws in America ASAP.
33
Kenosha is on the border with Illinois, which plans to have full retail marijuana and THC sales up and running by Jan. 1.
Who knows how many of the brothers' competitors are getting ready for a new gray market in Wisconsin? Yes, it'll be dark gray, because it'll all still be illegal here, but the economics will change.
Bathtub gin and other alcohol illegally distilled during Prohibition (and up to the present in some places) could be fatal, both from additives and unskilled makers. Making it legal again not only boosted public safety, it allowed taxation and regulation.
9
Another reason not to have children.
8
This is the most pearl clutching article I have ever read from the times.
7
this is all a tactic to keep pot illegal and to create a new fear mongering about marijuana.
read between the lines everybody
4
@HunG You can take my bootleg cartridge augmented THC toxic oils vaper from my cold dead oxygen deprived lips!
4
Really? These guys look like they’d have difficulty rolling a joint.
12
vaping as opposed to guns. Choose your poison. I would ban guns.
11
In 1975, as part of “Operation Clearview,” the Nixon Administration started supplying Mexico with about $15 million annually in aid that included helicopters designed to spray marijuana and poppy fields with herbicides....
Let that sink in, paraquat, with a level 1 toxicity rating, and 20% to 30 % of those crops tainted with paraquat made it over the border to the southern United States.
This practice of U.S. supported crop dusting in mexico with paraquat continued into the 80's.
https://thoughtcatalog.com/jeremy-london/2018/08/paraquat-pot/
A bit of brain engagement is necessary to help overcome the paranoia of those who cannot see the differences between good people wanting a good buzz and criminal minds exploiting it due to our goverments lack of progress on regulation for a safe and legal matket. The ignorance is appalling.
6
@SheHadaTattooToo
That comparison occurred to the boomers around here, too, good job with the links.
1
Quick comment for all the "marihuanas are bad" crowd - I will at least consider your position if you make an equally impassioned argument for the (re)criminalization of alcohol that has been created for human consumption. Otherwise you are either an idiot, or worse yet a hypocrite. If you want to quote studies about the dangers associated with pot please tell us about the myriad of far worse problems caused by alcohol. When you do please explain why, if it is so bad, I walk up to the corner store and buy a 40 oz of malt liquor for $2?
24
This is all Bill Clinton's fault - making convenience store clerks agents of the government for enforcing his ban on sales of tobacco products to minors.
Well, actually when we reinforced and publicized stores and clerks For Not selling tobacco products to minors, we reduced not only sales of any tobacco to teens, we dramatically reduced smoking by teens using standard data collected by the US government. Read about it Brain and Behavioral Sciences (Wilson et al., 2014. Evolving the Future. Good science works, and s lot fewer kids will die from tobacco related diseases, similar strategies work for kids and weed.
3
I'm grateful to be under the watchful eyes of such caring people. I remember when China White, Mexican Black Tar heroin and the disparate sentencing law's bx Crack and powder Cocaine were given at least equal awareness. I mean these products were causing great damage in the non-white communities. They were just as quickly and seriously addressed. I have to say, I live in an obvious meritocracy where everyone; and I do mean everyone has the same chance of success. This brings tears of pride to my jaundiced eyes. I consider we're getting closer to making America great again. Then again, maybe it's not that easy.
5
This "vaping" panic is truly about tainted black-market THC, and NOT about nicotine products. The overwhelming majority of the reported cases have nothing to do with vaping nicotine; it's only being linked to these illnesses because it involves kids, and "nicotine" means "tobacco" to most people, and tobacco is evil. It is irresponsible and lazy journalism to associate two very different substances under the term "vaping".
Commercially available nicotine vape products contain only 3 ingredients: glycerine, propylene glycol, and flavor (and nicotine, in different concentrations). There is NO oil product of any kind in these liquids, and it's the oils that appear to be the toxic culprit in these lung illnesses. I have used vaping (nicotine) to free myself from a lifelong addiction to cigarettes. I consider this method to be a godsend. I use flavored liquid. While I applaud the efforts to restrict minors from nicotine products, I think this is a dishonest way to go about doing so, and countless current smokers may lose what (for me) is the only method which made it possible to get off the smokes.
22
Um, you’re still addicted and you simply have no idea what your lungs will be like in 20 years.
7
Try the patch.
5
I know right? These stories are getting more and more frustrating because people are panicking about an illness that has not been given a definite cause. I've been vaping for 10 years and I've purchased my ejuice from the same seller for the last 9 years. I have never once gotten sick due to vaping and what else I don't get is why are people purchasing from black market sellers? Purchase from known vendors that actually care about the safety and quality of their products!
7
Why didn’t the authors write about the lead contamination which has been occurring in cartridges due to 2 corrosive terpenes? This is a failed opportunity to educate the public.
3
It's like synthetic pot and fentanyl and every other end-around invented to defeat the DEA et al in the war on drugs. The stuff always ends up more dangerous than the real thing.
Legalize drugs, especially pot, yesterday.
21
After this administration, and Senate, does something meaningful about gun violence, I'll pay attention to this vaping issue. In the meantime, this is all noise.
19
Funny in the article it states “A neighbor described a steady stream of young men coming in and out, usually neatly dressed, and driving expensive cars”. Nobody thought it was a little strange & called the police? Hmmm
5
This Reefer Madness approach to writing about this subject must change. The bottom line here is NOT that THC is the dangerous substance but that the unregulated market is. Cutting oils with unapproved emulsifiers can accomplish both a boost to profit but also may allow the cartridges to work properly if they are designed for e-fluid. The viscosity of e-fluid and distilled THC are quite different and the cartridges are designed separately to accommodate that viscosity difference. The adulterated oil may also make it easy to avoid suspicion. Vaping of e-cigs is ubiquitous and only by looking closely at the contents of the cartridges can a person know whether it’s THC or simply e-fluid. Unfortunately such poor practices can harm people and give cannabis a bad name that it no longer deserves.
11
Your lungs were simply not designed to take in high levels of anything other than nitrogen oxygen and water. Period.
7
Marijuana would help my pain. But I can't get it. So I am given oxycontin instead. I don't know what vaping is but if it relieves pain I am going to look for it. And pray that it helps. I am 71 and tired of being in pain.
17
@Sharon Conway - I consider myself an expert on all things medical cannabis and if you are looking for pain relief then I would strongly suggest that you forget smoking cannabis but rather get an edible form. Half a pot-brownie will help the pain a LOT more than smoking a joint. Ideally, you would reach for a strain with a high CBD:THC ratio but living in New York, you can't walk to the cannabis store and choose from hundreds of different strains like we do here in Seattle.
12
New York has legal marijuana for medical use. The edibles are better for pain.
8
Wow 6 deaths and a call to ban flavored e-cigs. How many deaths from assault rifles in the last few months? Maybe these e-cig manufacturers need to start donating to politicians so they can stay in business and keep killing people like gun manufacturers do. Maybe if we could study the health effects of both guns and cannabis we could understand better what needs to be done on both fronts to keep young people safe, but no, our current laws thanks to said politicians won't let us.
vote the bums out 2020
27
I keep hearing this word "epidemic" tossed around. honest question: are 400 illnesses and 6 deaths considered an epidemic in a population of 330 million? why are we hyperfocused on vaping when cigarettes are legal, alcohol is legal, and obesity is rampant which lead to cancer, heart disease, diabetes, copd, poorer immune system, higher medical costs, (alcohol) linked with domestic violence, vehicle crashes, suicide?
23
@Bryan
The CDC's official definition of an epidemic is: "The occurrence of more cases of disease than expected in a given area or among a specific group of people over a particular period of time.".
2
Thank you, voice of reason.
I started smoking cigarettes at 13. My boyfriend, now a renowned psychiatrist, studied me for his senior thesis. It was cool and rebellious and we thought that we were immortal.
This is terribly scary. My best friend from that era just died of ling cancer. I do mot wish this on anyone and it is the tobacco company’s death tally. How can Congress forgive themselves for not passing restrictions?
10
To all those posting about “Walter White was a perfectionist” and “Walter would never allow bad meth to leave his lab,” the headline writers were using that term to indicate the hidden-in-plain-sight, innocence-of-middle-America, and you-just-never-know portions of that show’s arc, rather than the quality of his product.
9
So six people have died so vaping is being banned. REAL CIGARETTES ARE STILL LEGAL. Makes perfect sense to me.
34
The most frustrating part of the discussion of vaping is that it is not being clearly defined.
Are we talking about pulling off a piece of cannabis flower and putting it into the end of a vape pen? That is called vaping and has absolutely nothing added other than the organic material.
Are we talking about screwing on a CO2 cartridge to the same vape pen so that some sticky hash oil can be delivered to the coil without the hassle of trying to pull a tiny piece of taffy-like material and getting it into the end of a pen?
One method has a carrier liquid and THAT is the main culprit.
At my old medical dispensary, folks started using vape pens years ago but no one got sick. Well, they were already sick but no one ended up in the hospital with lung issues. But the dispensary didn't sell flavored cartridges.
If we are going to ban vape pens because some people got sick then we need to ban lettuce once and for all since people routinely get sick, end up in the hospital, and die from bad lettuce in the stores. Romaine lettuce should never again be planted in this country because people have gotten sick and died.
But the difference in outcry between the deaths from Romaine lettuce and cannabis has to do with plant stigma and nothing else. And the lettuce deaths are not due to bootleg operations but products sold in the stores under the watchful eye of the FDA.
I will still buy cannabis from the local stores but I no longer buy lettuce. I grow it in the closet.
14
@tom harrison
read the article. It is not what you think. The article covers the fact of these boys being illegal drug dealers and also talks about the lipoid pneumonia that has affected so many people.
Vaping is the heating of the pot without burning it. Once you are dealing with oily liquids you are no longer vaping, you are smoking them. If you were vaping them the consumption of the VOC's one desires when one vapes pot would leave 99% of the liquid behind. The liquid is being consumed thus it is being smoked. Smoking oil can't be better than smoking leaf.
4
Kudos to the parents who took their son to the police and major congrats and thanks to the Waukesha police! Thanks also to the NYT for an eye-opening investigative piece. This sounds like a turbo-charged and lethal version of the on-campus pot dealers of the 70s. Wow.
11
The wages of lax regulation.
5
Pot is a toxin and dangerous. My special health report from Harvard men’s Health Watch headline this month says Know the facts about CBD products.
The extract from the cannabis plant is the hot new treatment for all kinds of ailments, but don’t buy into it just yet. So however you use it or abuse you are messing your head up and lungs permanently. Don’t even bother writing a comment back how you used it for 50 years or more and no issues. All i need to hear a medical group tell me don’t buy into it just yet and see all the vaping victims to date and i am not for legalizing it.
Who would have thought, in the interest of smoking cessation and increasing social in acceptance, a deconstructed smoking method would be invented that appears to be more dangerous than smoking?
3
I tried vaping when I was trying to stop smoking tobacco. The biggest benefit was to stop the incessant griping about the smell of tobacco smoke. I went to the nicotine mints because vaping still made me cough.
Problem started when people started vaping who had never even smoked tobacco.
1
Legalize it all so that there is no incentive buy from dangerous suppliers.
12
@Clayton
No way its a deadly toxin and causes violence . Look at Colorado and the other three states that legalized it the violence rate in all those states have skyrocketed . My Harvard monthly health report said said don’t buy into CBD /THC yet so that means they are finding plenty of dangers with its use. You should pay high health care costs if you use it now.
"The Wisconsin operation is wholly characteristic of a “very advanced and mature illicit market for THC vape carts,”
So much for assuming Wisconsin is made up of only chickens cows, and cheese.
My husband and I bought some property in Bristol many years ago when it was a sleepy, peaceful and beautiful hiccup of a place before it developed and populated with condos and beautiful big sprawling homes.
I can clearly understand how and why Bristol "might have been the perfect place for a drug operation". The bigger question is if similar and bigger operations are quietly weaved and existing throughout other smaller and sleepy villages like Bristol in other states?
8
“Wisconsin police say they were stunned by the scope and ambition of the Huffhines operation, and only beginning to understand how far it might have reached.”
For whatever it may be worth, warnings about counterfeit THC cartridges were being spread around, at least a few weeks before any illnesses started to show up in the news.
Seems a bit ludicrous that Cannabis is a Schedule I substance. The war on drugs will be the death of...a lot more people.
11
The government creates a black market, six people die and the solution is to ban vaping pens.
Thousands die in mass shootings with military assault weapons and the mere suggestion that those guns are made illegal is met with overwhelming opposition.
Welcome to 2019.
33
Who or what is a Walter White?
7
@Jonathan Katz
I know, I don’t have cable either.
Don’t worry, it was a contrived false comparison of a fictional character in the series Breaking Bad who ironically cared about the purity of his products.
In reality, fairly taxed and regulated federal whole plant marijuana laws would significantly reduce the toxicity of dangerous chemicals in available vaporizing products.
10
@Jonathan Katz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_White_(Breaking_Bad)
WW cared about purity only because of his brilliant chemist's ego & because he commanded top dollar for his product. He knew it killed a lot of people & didn't care. It is not a contrived false comparison.
2
The comparison between the brothers and Walter White is misleading. If Walter White were in the vaping business, he would make the purest and most potent product - no impurities the would trigger hospitalization.
14
This article doesn’t talk enough about how the root cause of these illnesses is the black market merchandise. There is a market for it, people are going to buy it. Regulate it, tax it, make it safer. I don’t think people should be vaping in the first place but prohibition doesn’t work! Legalize it, let the FDA strictly regulate these companies, and tax it putting the tax money towards state addiction programs. This is how capitalism in America should work!
19
Vitamin E acetate is used not just for cutting (diluting), but for 'thickening,' based on the unproven assumption that a thicker vaping mix is better or more potent.
Excellent article on this and much more at Inverse:
https://www.inverse.com/article/59207-vitamin-e-acetate-thc-vapes
6
I love it that now we have a legal cannabis industry that can stand up for better regulation and stand against shady operators selling counterfeit products.
11
“the Walter Whites of THC Oils” - LOL. Sorry but I really don’t see the connection. That’s a bit of a stretch.
4
Do the words "bad trip" bring back memories? It appears that each generation needs to learn the fact that it's not necessarily a good idea to swallow or smoke strange substances -- even if there is no law against it. And that enacting laws against such have only limited success when it comes to young people.
16
@M145
Yet we keep smoking, vaping and ingesting strange substances since the dawn of our earliest camp fires half a million years ago, literally coevolving with psychoactive substances as we became human. Strange, isn’t it? There are receptors in our brains and bodies for cannabinoids, DMT, nicotine and we keep finding and cooking and scientifically compounding these substances in nature. It’s almost as if having psychadelic experiences is part of being human?
8
Yeah ... Human
1
Euphoria aside, cannabis is a drug that increases the risk of a stroke by 26%, heart attack by 10%, that impairs the developing brain, that decreases the drive to initiate and complete tasks, that impairs perception and is linked to mood swings and personality disorders. Our society is already pretty screwed-up; do we really need the extra trouble that promoting this drug will bring?
8
@Susan
Euphoria helps reduce strokes. And cannabis is a neuroprotectant, which, you guessed it, helps reduce strokes;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6458776/
Which is to say nothing about how increasing oxygen to the bloodstream reduces blood pressure further reducing chances of a stroke. Unless you have heart inflammations, but then you can just lower the dosage of THC and increase the disinflammatory CBD. Same if you have a history of schizophrenia in your family... reduce the psychoactive THC and increase the CBD, but don’t eliminate the terpenes and other cannabinoids.
PubMed is an excellent source of peer reviewed research. Try googling PubMed, Marijuana and whatever disorders you claim are a detriment to our health. You may be surprised at what you discover.
Do some research.
14
@Susan - I have two different specialists who recommend that I use copious amounts of cannabis for my health. Even the last neurologist I saw at the VA told me to use cannabis since it had been proven to help me.
10
Walter never got caught and made phat stacks for years!!! The only thing worse then this moronic, hazardous, boneheaded operation is the headline - and vaping.
6
Placing "Walter White" a fictional character in the headline and then not explaining who, what or why you did that is bad writing and even worse editing. You really think everyone knows who that is?
24
Yeah, I had to look that up. I like to think I’m pretty well read, but it turns out it’s a Breaking Bad television reference and I’ve never seen Breaking Bad
I was once in a group of younger people who didn’t get my Rosebud allusion, even when I prompted them with Citizen Kane. Ouch.
But I don’t write for the New York Times. Inexcusable.
I’d also like to make a snarky comment about these bros just being entrepreneurs in a marketplace free of regulation and taxation, but since people were actually harmed, I’ll refrain from doing that. Z
6
Like the old photo of two fried eggs - "This is your brain on drugs," photo now needed of blocked pulmonary passages - "These are your lungs vaping."
Live or die, grow a brain, don't vape.
2
@vishmael
You do realize we would die without water vapor? You’re missing some information.
4
So the porn star president wants to ban vaping
Brilliant
It worked so well for alcohol during prohibition
And wasn’t the war on drugs a tremendous success
24
I told you so. I described this type of operation in a 1500 word post when these vape injuries first made the national news. (If a reporter can submit his stories for a Pulitzer I can take credit for my freelance reporting in the NYT comment section. I've done the research)
This story lacks known important details on how THC oil and the vaping liquid is produced, perhaps because even law enforcement doesn't know themselves. There are several ways toxic contamination can occur in the production chain, well known to legitimate THC and CBD producers. The product production chain for THC is identical to that of legal CBD products, as is the potential for illicit, toxic production.
Legitimate, conscientious producers all cut the CBD/THC oil concentrate. The difference is that they don't cut, or dilute, it with oil carriers. They use propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine. Pharmaceutical grade mineral oil will cause lipoid pneumonia with those publicized symptoms. It doesn't matter if it is fully heated in the aerosolization process.
But of course people have no incentive to buy legal CBD products on the street.
Legal, no THC, CBD also sells for $6,000 to $8,000 a kilo in its concentrated form, but they have greater expenses to produce a safe product, including batch analysis for toxic contamination of the final product.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6836e1.htm?s_cid=mm6836e1_e&deliveryName=USCDC_921-DM8485
13
Ahhhh, so the legit vaping places aren’t the root of the recent health issues?
KNEW IT
Don’t try and ban things before understanding the problem.
19
But they will because Big Tobacco doesn’t want the competition. I’m sure that Big Tobacco money is behind the proposed ban and that, once the legitimate vape companies are out of the business, the ban will be lifted so we can buy Marlboro nicotine or Virginia Slims thc vape carts.
2
@FB nowhere in this article does it say that. You are reinforcing delusions.
1
Big tobacco is heavily invested in the vaping industry. Google it.
1
From the article:
Across the country, public health officials are awakening to a massive underground market for illicit vaping products, both for nicotine and for marijuana. The products are sold online and on the streets, in pop-up stores and individual transactions, sometimes arranged through social media.
“I’d meet people at Starbucks, a cross street, in front of an apartment, wherever they tell you,” said a 17-year-old who was one of the people hospitalized for the vaping-related lung illness in New York state. He asked that his name not be used to guard his reputation and privacy.
“It never comes up where they source it,” he said. “You don’t ask.”
----
BINGO! where opportunity presents, illicit business steps in and proliferates.... often by nefarious means and absent any regard for public health and safety.
This is precisely why cannabis products need to formally legalized and with that comes oversight, testing, and compliance controls for public safety.
Same with e-cig products.. the industry managed to move to scale with very little oversight from the FDA. That needs to change.
Blanket banning in reaction is not the proper course, but it works politically for those that seek political gain from human suffering. Besides.. have we not yet learned that in America, anything that is blanket banned.. simply grows and proliferates underground???????
17
Six people die from vaping and we ban it.
But guns?
Seriously, The Onion can’t keep up with the absurdity our society has become.
45
Legalize it and regulate it.
16
Legalization, with strict testing, in ALL states will solve this. It will also take a chunk of street thugs and drug cartels out of the market.
20
It's really not a fair characterization of this NYT headline-writer to (even jokingly?!) equivocate the mostly regulated/legalized tobacco and THC with Walter White's much more toxic Meth.
While I realize the reference is to the logistics & delivery methods of these two gig-economy slackers, the NYT -casual-reader may not make it past the headline - and lump Meth into the vaping-mix.
4
Donnie's America doesn't do regulation. Sorry.
4
Illegal Carts don’t kill people. People with illegal carts kill people . In stoned age America, this could become mass murder!
Well, at least we can change the subject from Mass shootings to a more palatable problem
2
So long as there remains a federal prohibition on state legalized THC oils and whole plant marijuana the FDA will continue to fail at regulating the gray market flow of these products.
Let’s stop glamorizing Breaking Bad criminals or blaming the poison itself instead of GETTING INVOLVED IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS and MAKING Congress DO THEIR JOBS!
Here; Don’t take it from me; listen to an expert on the subject, NORML Deputy Director Dr. Paul Armentano;
https://www.leafly.com/news/industry/cannabis-vaping-concerns-call-for-increased-regulations-and-oversight
While the media wants a juicy criminal story they miss the obvious story of our bad laws or our participation as consumers in the crime of buying unregulated products instead of forcing our legislators and Congressman to regulate bad laws like the CSAct that keep trying to turn cops into doctors and nurses... that aint gonna happen. Neither will federal legalization without our participation.
Meanwhile prohibitionists from Sheriff’s Associations to Project SAM are watering at the mouth to finally claim that “marijuana caused one death” when all they’re doing is drawing attention to how badly we need to legalize and regulate marijuana products.
Let’s stop lab testing for cannabinoids to suck the life out of our labor force and destroy nonviolent lives; let’s lab test for general impairment in the workplace and test for QUALITY, pesticide free non toxic marijuana in federally regulated markets.
10
@Schedule 1 Remedy - I will keep my homegrown, thank you very much. The federal government has a long history of turning a blind eye to health issues like Oxys.
@tom harrison
Why can’t you keep your home grown AND legally regulate? Why would the two be mutually exclusive? I couldn’t agree more that the labor of making oil out of our own homegrown marijuana flowers is far superior to guessing whatever is in a packaged bottle. But why would we not want there to be federal rules for checking toxicity? We need to participate in the legislative process and communicate with our state legislators and Congressman if we wish to include homegrown in our regulations. Here’s an excellent source for that:
www.norml.org/act
1
@Schedule 1 Remedy - When cannabis was legalized here the first thing the state did was shut down just about every single medical dispensary leaving only big business.
Big business, watched by our state, slaps a label on the package telling one the THC content along with CBD and some other cannabinoids. But its a bit of a scam in that the grower only has to send a sample of the crop to the lab for testing. So, they send the top buds which are quite a bit higher in cannabinoids than the buds lower down the plant. The entire crop gets the top rating even though little of that end product would match the numbers. I got this info by calling a local cannabis testing lab to ask about testing. I thought it would be a fun article to go to half a dozen Seattle stores, buy something off of the shelf, and send it back to be analyzed. I already know what to expect.
1
Vaping products should be made illegal yet we allow cigarettes which kill more people than al other exogenous substances combined. USA!!
6
It is an impressive feat of concealment if they could have 12 pounds of cannabis in a condo and not have the whole neighborhood know it by the odor.
4
@Mark - Its quite simple. Just use a good charcoal filter and talk a nice Ethiopian family into moving next door. The wonderful smell of their freshly made curry dishes will overpower anything your little flowers can produce.
3
@tom harrison
If they’re Ethiopian Coptics they might have some good, ancient cannabis recipes too!
2
@Schedule 1 Remedy - I don't know about that but they taught me how to roast coffee at home on the stove the way everyone in their country does it.
1
One thing selling weed another thing making some counterfeit vape carts
5
"Manicured subdivisions" says it all - mainstream, white America on the edge of flyover country. Guessing neither Jacob nor Tyler are "illegal immigrants" but, if convicted, we'll hear what wonderful "kids" they were once upon a time.
10
Capitalism will kill us all.
4
Dear NYT --
I doubt I'm the only one for whom the name "Walter White" isn't particularly meaningful --
Please just report the news...
mj
9
Looks like a news story any tobacco company could get behind.
1
It seems Wisconsin legislators have done everything it can to stop the legalization of marijuana. There is a demand for it obviously, but it seems the politicians of this state care more about their own agenda than the people they represent.
Legalize it now & stop creating this black market of poisonous vape pens.
158
@Barb ... and create another source of tax revenue, instead of wasting tax-money on futile attempts at prevention.
12
@Barb. This is about THC oil being cut which is criminal fraud.
4
@Barb: Here in California, where recreational marijuana is now legal, the black market still does three times as much business as legal dispensaries.
Why? Because it's always cheaper to buy unregulated and uninspected products like these. And most of the customers for these products--- teenagers and young adults--- do not have a lot of disposable cash to get the high that they want, so they are very willing to risk street products.
According to the CDC, illnesses due to vaping have been detected in 36 states. Some of those states, like California, have already legalized marijuana. So, no, vaping illnesses and deaths will not disappear magically if only marijuana was legalized everywhere.
8
Why are people surprised about this? There are always going to be people who look for a way around any situation to make a quick buck. Only way to stop it is to stop buying it. But then there are always going to be people looking for something cheap. Catch 22.
2
Buried in this story is the following:
“The filled cartrages are not by definition a health risk.”
In a previous Times story:
“Public health officials have underscored one fundamental point: that the surge in illnesses is a new phenomenon and not merely a recognition of a syndrome that may have been developing for years.”
Shame on the media for muddying the waters around the cause of these illnesses, with front-page scare headlines using loose language like “vaping illnesses”.
Consider this: nobody has ever died from smoking marijuana, and yet, people still opt to vape, rather than smoke, pot. Why? Because millennials are deeply health-conscious.
Many comments here - particularly the eagerness to say “I told you so” - reflect a deep skepticism that younger generations can find a healthier relationship with substances than their parents. Perhaps even envy: those who have abstained throughout their lives seek validation for having done so.
But I would urge abstinent readers not to cheer the demise of vaping, and certainly not to play loose with the facts at hand to score moral points.
The pursuit of a healthier relationship with nicotine and marijuana is a worthy one. If this pursuit doesn’t pertain to you, please don’t join the conversation.
5
@Ludwig Van - One draw of the vape pens is the lack of smell. Someone can walk down the street smoking pot and you don't notice it the same way as someone smoking the same buds in a little pipe.
I am surrounded by millenials and have seen no indication that they have any concern for their health or even the planet.
5
@tom harrison - perhaps I should have said “healthier and more respectful”. Not disturbing others is certainly part of the draw.
For the record, I am a millennial. And if you want evidence that we are health-conscious, take a look at the back-flips the free market has taken to accommodate us (vaping devices included). Salad bowls, juice bars, fitness lifestyle brands, the advent of the wellness industry, etc. etc. etc.
These are not targeting baby boomers.
Am I cynical about all of the above? Of course. But, I believe the unseemly corporate shark swarm is a response to my generation’s genuine values.
This comment is actually in re Patrick Kingsley's article about our immigration policy. In that article he states:
"But it does ban signatories to the convention, like the United States, from deporting asylum seekers to countries where their safety is at risk, a process formally known as “refoulement.”
Most Western countries have usually interpreted this in a broad sense — refusing to deport people to countries that may not be at war, but still do not provide refugees with most of the protections required by the 1951 convention."
"Refoulement", according to the treaty and all contemporaneous usages, is returning someone fleeing persecution to the place where they were persecuted. The "broad sense" in which it is interpreted is not about whether that place is at war, the Refugee Convention does not deal at all with flight from war. It is broad when it means not to send someone seeking asylum to any country in which they will be in danger.
As for those fleeing from war, the European Union, the African Union and the Cartagena countries consider them to be refugees, other countries do not. The U.S. in particular, has a separate status for those people, they are SIVs. But we accept those designated by UNHCR for 3rd country resettlement program as refugees (currently threatened by the Trump-Miller-McAleenan Cruelty Initiative).
If you are going to position yourselves as a source of information on immigration, you should exercise critical editorial review on what you write.
Pun intended:
This issue is just a smoke screen to distract from so many other vital problems we have.
3
This article, essentially convicting these two young men, before they’ve had an ounce of due process, reads like an ad for Dosist, a proprietary and popular Competing vaporizer device that is about to IPO. All this bad publicity around vaping, a couple kids to the Prison for Profit wolves, is sure to be good for the Banks, Private Equity and Founders of Dosist, in what was an otherwise difficult IPO market.
1
I don’t vape but I find the outcry hilarious. Here we have an underground market of vape products with health risks. At the same time New York is using this as justification for banning legitimate products from manufacturers with quality standards.
You don’t think the customers for flavored vapes won’t simply go underground? And put themselves at risk?
Silliness. Anti smoking activists who should have gotten lives a long time ago.
8
As part of the war on drugs, we helped the Colombians kill Pablo Escobar in 1993.
There is more cocaine than ever along with heroine, meth, opioids, and fentanyl.
Drugs will not be cured on the supply side.
It has to be on the demand side.
You would have thought we learned that with Prohibition.
On another topic, cigarettes kill 480,000 Americans a year.
4
Lock them up forever. We have such greed in America for more money . The rich like Trump over price everything they sell then it leads to low life individuals saying i can make more on a deal with less product. This should show the pot head supporters that CBD/THC are dangerous after these many victims and if you still use it after this there should be no health care for you. Or you should pay the highest premiums for it.
@D.j.j.k. - Dangerous? Maybe if you get your product off of the street. Do you buy your prescription drugs off of the street or do you go to a bona-fide pharmacist? Do you buy moonshine off of the street of get it at the grocery store?
CBD/THC is not dangerous. The carrier liquid that people are putting into cartridges ALONG with THC/CBD appear to be harmful but those are two different things.
Now, if you will excuse me, I'm gonna follow my doctors' (plural) recommendations and have a bowl of homegrown. I can tell you everything that happened to that bowl in its long life - where the ladybugs came from for pest control, where the Neem oil was made, the recipe for the compost tea, the fabric used in making the grow bags, soil mixture, pH of the water, which mountains the water came from, etc. Its a far cry from some guy on the street asking me if I want some cartridges.
3
@tom harrison
I got a Harvard special health report this month. Headline news Know the facts about CBD products. The extract from the cannabis plant is the hot new treatment for all kinds of ailments, but don’t buy into it just yet. If you were smart you would wait too it is. Dangerous and a toxin.
1
@D.j.j.k. - My current neurologist and his team researched cannabis and have not told me any such thing.
As for CBD? I know all about it. I started making hash oil many, many years ago years before recreational laws went into effect here. I even created my own medical marijuana strains by carefully selecting certain strains. The difference between what I make and what one can buy online is the difference between Amish hand-churned butter and lard.
Most CBD is extracted from hemp which is not regulated the same as say corn, or wheat. You can spray all kinds of things on your hemp crop and meet the standards but that does not mean it makes a good end product. Compare that with my old buddy who started the first medical dispensary in Washington back in 1996. Organic, organic, and even more organic. No pesticides or chemicals other than hydrogen peroxide to deal with powdery mildew on leaves. Everything grown in living soil.
Now, if you want to talk about toxins lets discuss the meds my specialists give me that come with black box FDA warnings on them:)) Twice a year I go in for a blood draw to see how my kidneys and liver are holding up.
2
Geez Wisconsin, please just legalize THC and offer regulated products that can be inspected and taxed.
5
Arrest them all -- anyone involved with illegal vaping devices-- manufacture, distribution. A $200,000 fine (seize assets as necessary) - enough to pay for a four year prison sentence.
Meantime, charge each user below age 18 a $200 fine for each device on person or in use in school; over 18, raise fine to $500.
There are no natural nicotine cravings-- one has to use the stuff to become addicted.... and kids will try things out.. OTOH, parents not wishing to pay fines perhaps will try to monitor kids better. (Yes, I do remember what it was like.. including climbing out the second floor window and the "dead" cigarettes in the teapot!)
Frankly, I don't like smelling "skunk"/mj when I walk down the street.
3
Walter White made a quality product. These guys were just diluting THC oil—with dubious ingredients—and filling cartridges.
7
I’ll be attending the event named Hall of Flowers next week in Santa Rosa, California. It’s the largest B2B cannabis Show in the USA. I write about THC for Forbes Vices. I also wrote the best-seller, Cannabis Cocktails- for full disclosure.
You can bet that everyone who manufactures THC oil is in damage control mode. Sure, it’s all tested by state government and then tested again.
But the nefarious-bad player- (like bootleggers during prohibition) have no impetus to sell the multi tested product when they can sell the really dangerous stuff at seshes all over the country like ones I’ve attended in Manhattan and in Brooklyn. I’ve been to these. Nothing is tested. Everything is sold on a buyer beware basis- because it’s cheap and tax free.
People have been getting sick on bootleg 510 carts for a couple years now.
I receive emails every day now from reputable manufacturers of thc oil. Their reputation of vaping being a safer alternative has been sullied... forever.
3
At least the (misleading) headline had a question mark! No, these two were not the "Walter Whites" of illegal THC cartridges, they were mid-level distributors who were easily caught after following the leads from an end-user who got caught. What these two brothers are is an example of is just how porous the US is when it comes to buying the supplies needed to make counterfeit cartridges and then distribute them. The most troubling aspect of this from my POV is that they had to make little effort to buy fake labels and cartridges that looked just like the ones that are legally available in some states. It might behoove the Federal government to use some of its ICE - Immigration AND Customs enforcement - resources to clamp down on those fake labels and cartridges coming in from China that put American lives at risk. Similarly, the manufacturers of legal vaping products should use anti-counterfeit measures such as holographic seals to make it harder for the counterfeiters.
In the meantime, users should really stay away from illegal products for which you simply can't know what's in them - these two were just criminals trying to make a fast, illegal buck, but if it's that easy, how long until some psychopath thinks it's a good idea to put rat poison into some of these and then sell them? The risk is just too high!
2
@Pete in Downtown - There was an incident in Seattle a few years back after the show Breaking Bad had an episode about "Blue Ice". Well, some meth dealer on Capitol Hill saw an opportunity so he took a bottle of blue Windex, sprayed his batch so it was blue, and then told everyone he had the same stuff as on t.v. Quite a few folks wound up in the hospital over that one.
1
Legalization -- aka liberty -- works wonders.
2
It’s sad that the media promotes, parents allow, adults find a necessity the use of destructive substances as though getting, high, drunk, or addicted is some sort of national pastime. What is wrong with a society that must self medicate constantly just to get by.
61
@Chris
Simple. Moderation. Many embrace it, many don't. Immediate gratification is NEVER your friend.
6
@Chris
Not having enough money to cover expenses or outright poverty, being overworked, whether it's one or more jobs, life's degrading fates, frustrations, regrets, and pressure (especially on the younger abusers to "make the grade" at any cost), broken hearts, living in a society where it is no longer possible to always "pull yourself up by the bootstraps". More?
27
@Chris “All the lonely people, where do they all belong?”
11
The problem seems to be with THC and/or nicotine extracts suspended in solution and put into a cartridge. They are typically vaped in cheap vaporizers manufactured in China.
There do not seem to be any problems when people vape pure marijuana that is typically vaped in more expensive vaporizers manufactured in Canada and Germany. Canadians have been vaping unprocessed medical marijuana for many years without any apparent problems.
Anyone who vapes extracts suspended in solution, especially in a cheap shoddy vaporizer is taking a big risk until more information is gathered.
53
Young people generally, however intelligent, aren't well positioned to evaluate risk. Whether it's attributed to brain development or worldly experience or some combination thereof the risk of ingesting black market products isn't as readily apparent to them as it would be to the average fifty year old. Unfortunately, when the bad trip, hot shot, or lung impairment happens, the realization that they have taken a huge flyer on a substance supplied by a low-level criminal provides cold comfort, assuming they are still alive.
26
People want the thc and nicotine just like people wanted alcohol in the prohibition era. And prohibition worked out great, right?
The right way is legalization and regulations, so you have a safe product that won’t kill people.
97
@Jim Alcohol sure seems to kill a lot of people. That doesn't seem to be working out great either.
4
6 people die from vaping and they want to ban vapes. 10s of thousands die from guns and they want to make gun ownership as prolific as the market will allow. Even taking the 2nd amendment into consideration, how does this make sense to anyone??
235
@Jason Money.
11
@Jason
Same story with cigarettes and alcohol related deaths. We can't see the forest for the trees.
7
@Alpha There's a massive market for vaping though. I would be shocked if it isn't bigger than the gun market soon.
4
This should be a reminder that ‘foreigners’ are far from the only supply of illicit drugs.
Cutting off that supply, even if it were feasible, would only increase internal manufacturing - Made in the USA!
Most of all, local demand drives consumption, and the e-cigarette phenomenom, which never existed before, illustrates this best.
"“That’s what they’re doing, they’re cutting this oil,” he said of illegal operations. “If I can cut it in half,” he described the thinking, “I can double my money.”
That line has been used since the war on drugs began and has never really been true in application not then nor now.
Folks who purchase their products from anywhere but a state regulated dispensary or similar circumstance understands what they are buying and its purported strength. Inferior products do not sell much because that is not what THC vapers and marijuana users are after.
As I understand it almost all of those who have suffered from this lung illness acknowledged vaping THC, but I don't know if theirs were bootleg, for lack of a better term. The danger could well originate from one of the methods for distillation of THC.
There is a huge market of vaping products and I would not like to see it tainted by a few bad actors.
These brothers did not have the savvy to have such an operation and not get snitched on. All one has to do is visit the dark web to see the extent of THC vaping. The bust of these brothers is no big deal.
4
@Satyaban
Please. Stepping on the purity of the product is so utterly ubiquitous. You act like the illegal drug market was some kind of perfect free market where consumers simply choose to buy a better product (and at the same price!?!) There's tons of false propaganda fueling the war on drugs but cutting the product to make more profit is a fact of life, not misinformation. Next you'll be telling us how drug dealers aren't in it for the money.
1
We better get used to the black market now that we are crippling the vaping industry instead of pushing regulation to monitor the manufacture by businesses and small entrepreneurs. We are going to see a lot more of it.
23
The true heroes in this story are the parents of the teenager who brought him to the police station to tell the cops where he got the stuff. Most parents would never have done that. They potentially saved a lot of lives and should be lauded.
115
My thoughts exactly--and thanks to these alert and truly loving parents. Many other parents and their sons and daughters owe them thanks, as well!!
18
@Rich Connelly
Utterly absurd. Heroes compared to parents who properly educate their children of the risks versus rewards? I can imagine the trama the boy endured while being grilled by parents and police.
Legalize and sensibly regulate!
4
The most important question, which this article does not answer: Was vitamin E acetate in their products? If not, then this was just a large everyday drug bust.
18
Moral of the story is that we can legalize marijuana but the negative forces in the society will find a way to still abuse the system.
I am not saying that we shouldn't legalize marijuana but that human greed that makes people do illegal things can never ever be controlled.
8
Seems that prohibition is the issue here. If there were a legitimate market in every state, I’m sure the black market would be substantially smaller. There are nowhere near as many secret stills around since the end of prohibition…
22
@J Fo You didn’t read the article? The issue is profit, not prohibition. The brothers were cutting THC with other oils to make money.
@J Fo What I've read is that there is more bootleg alcohol sold in this country now than during prohibition. Now it is sold to avoid paying duties and taxes. Make something destructive - but desirable to many - and it will be on the black market.
2
"...the illicit operations are using a tactic common to other illegal drug operations: cutting their product with other substances, including some that can be dangerous."
A tactic also used by legal tobacco companies, with far more common and deadly results for people's health.
It's good the government is trying to contain this before it spreads uncontrollably. But really, how can you explain the gigantic disparity in how these two drug delivery methods are treated? Well, put it this way: If the vape cart folks would just start contributing to political campaigns, they'd be home free, no matter how many people die.
Just sayin'.
35
@William LeGro - Speaking of tobacco companies' tactics, Altria is not only one of the worlds' biggest cigaret manufactures and the parent company of Phillip Morris, it also acquired a 35% interest in Juul vaping products last year. The tobacco companies' lobbyists are the ones pushing the hardest for regulation of vaping products, and are busy trying to buy up the competition. That's why Juul is behaving like a perfect angle/company in full obeisance with the government on this.
8
@William LeGro It's not tobacco smokers who are dropping dead. And your claims about "smoking-related" disease are based on falsely blaming smoking for diseases caused by infection. Government using scientific fraud to rob smokers' liberty violates our basic rights. It's like using fake evidence to put innocents in jail. The Department of Justice should prosecute Tobacco Control for conspiracy, fraud and racketeering.
400 people made ill and six people died and we are crying out for stiff regulation of Vaping products.
Yet, we are told to ignore the over 100 deaths each day in America, the traumatic damage to families, friends, workplaces and communities all over the nation because firearms are protected from any kind of regulation.
Bad vaping oils will get regulated because there is an outcry and there isn't a wealthy industry to protect the makers of questionable vaping cartridges and the vaping devices to use them.
Cartridges for firearms will continue to be produced as will the weapons used to shoot them. People die from both but we only are outraged at the deaths from vaping.
I guess the families of shooting victims are happy that they were not vaping - that is the real problem.
224
@George N. Wells If guns were killing unsuspecting gun buyers due to malfeasance, you'd have a parallel worth discussing.
3
@George N. Wells
You need to get to work, so you ignore the 109+ daily traffic deaths?
I don't think so, and it's a false argument to make the blanket statement that we all are not outraged by shooting deaths, the annual count of which recently exceeded the annual number of traffic fatalities.
Why do you wish to play the "zero-sum" game?
Must we focus on one issue to the exclusion of all others?
BTW: your statement that firearms are protected from any kind of regulation is false as well.
Do you truly believe yourself?
1
@George N. Wells
To that we can add 480,000 deaths each year from cigarettes.
3
I don’t think these kids deliberately set out to cut their product and shave a few cents off their costs. They simply did not understand the chemistry of vitamin e when heated. It doesn’t matter that much whether you use $4K or $8K thc when your margins are crazy high. If you’re going to call them the Walter Whites of carts, remember that what Walter was known for was his excellent quality. Sure, they broke some laws but was there a criminal intent hurt others? I don’t think so. Just like the early bootleggers, they saw demand and filled it. I am not condoning illicit activities. Yes, people got hurt or killed. They will have to answer for that. But what they did pales in comparison to the Sacklers who killed tens of thousands with the complicit politicians. Proportionality anyone? Just like Capone, get them for tax evasion. The lawyers will sort out the wrongful death lawsuits.
101
@Mark Stone The Sacklers followed the law. It was created by government regulated pharma companies, prescribed by government licensed doctors, and sold by government licensed pharmacists.
These two didn't obey any laws.
What does this suggest about government laws?
5
@Mark Stone
Their stuff may have killed or injured someone, or may yet. They are evil and should get lots of prison time.
@Mark Stone
It's bathtub gin all over again. And the public suffers from the ignorance of lack of real care on the part of the bootlegger.
1
Walter White was all about purity. These knock-offs were anything but pure. So, no.
The legitimate medical cannabis industry is trying to get rid of chemicals like Propylene Glycol, and they are careful to formulate their carts so that the oils are not inhaled the way they were with these sorry things.
I am not thrilled with all the disposable products and additives in the legal cannabis carts, but vaping is a bit better than regular smoking. Buy some flower and a good vaporizer. It's more labor intensive, but worth it. I can't speak for nicotine.
I'm a big proponent of CBD with a little THC. It's quite relaxing and helps with some issues of mine.
I'm happy these clowns were rounded up.
24
@prokedsorchucks People might try vaping tobacco. It's odd how so many prefer highly processed things where the ingredients are unknown and process itself introduces contaminants.
2
@David
Preference? Maybe candy and fruit flavoring for "kids?"
@David
That’s why he suggested buying the whole plant flower and grinding down the oils yourself.
1
Gun violence kills 40,000 people every year.
Street-made vaping products have killed 6 people.
So just warn the public about avoiding tainted vaping street products.
Problem solved.
End of subject.
Now let's stay focused on pressuring Massacre Mitch McConnell and his cowardly GOPers to pass legislation to ban mass-murdering assault weapons, strict universal background checks and red flag laws.
158
@JM It is already illegal to kill (most) people with a gun. I am pretty sure we have an effective "ban on murder."
If guns were tainted and killing people unexpectedly, this would be a clear parallel.
3
We all know that this is just a distraction from total inaction on thousands of gun deaths and a circuit breaker on a string of losses by the White House, right?
117
How can you ruin someones life for marijuana possession in one state while it is quickly being legalized in so many other states? This is all beyond ridiculous. Moral panic? Manufactured hysteria is more like it. This is about more than vaping. Where is the moral/ law enforcement outrage over gun deaths? How long did it take for moral/ law enforcement outrage over opiods? Point is- the rich aren't getting richer from marijuana(yet.)
24
@JL
yes, and zero consideration as to why this nations' young people feel the need to self-medicate.
Sure, some of this can be chalked up to the "no tomorrows" party life of teenage years, but anxiety, genetics, idleness, and other mental illness are at the heart of why this market exists.
3
Under federal law THC is of a class more forbidden than heroin yet not enforced leading me to be contemptuous of the legal process.
@SLY3
Why do young people feel the need to self medicate?? Why do people drink beer and wine? And it is not only young people and hippies that use marijuana. What an illuminating comment.
No longer can anyone claim that cannabis has never killed anyone, although greed is the adulterer here.
1
@dmbones
Cannabis did not kill here... adulterants added to the Cannabis killed here.
There IS a difference.
Which is why legalization, and safety standards and licensing of both producers and sellers is needed.. as well as very significant law enforcement effort at any entity or individual that tries to dump fraudulent and toxic product on the public.. underground or otherwise.
34
@dmbonesYou don’t get it, cannabis was not the killer here. As a matter of fact if it was legal and regulated, this probably would not have happened. The death can squarely be blamed on our failed drug policies, because people will smoke weed anyway.
2
@Chuck
Hey Chuck,
Yeah, it hurts that some jerks would use the People's Pharmacy harmfully, for personal gain. It's a strong argument for legalization and enforced regulations, even after five decades of personal use without any need for oversight.
2
Well, like Walter White, these kids are first and foremost capitalists.
At least these two have the excuse of youth, which can't said of our corporate malefactors or Donald Trump.
11
The Republican "concern for our youth" especially coming from trump was as toxic as the vaping fumes.
The amazing hypocrisy!
Youth are hunted down and shot in our schools, malls and churches by the dozens, no way to address that.
So if the vaping poison was delivered through the barrel of a gun, it would be just fine with the GOP.
77
@Robert FL Murder is already illegal, no?
There is not much "bath-tub gin" produced where alcohol is available legally. The online communities have been aware of and warning against the use of certain vape cartridges for months. There are web sites dedicated to spreading the warning. The "authorities" are catching up on info cannabis oil vaping community has known for some time.
18
I'd also draw attention to the fact that what is being called vaping is not actually vaping. When you properly vape there is no visible gas involved.
Vaporizing pot is a method of consuming it intended to mimic smoking it but eliminate the intake of the burnt byproducts of the dried organic matter. You heat up the pot slowly and inhale the vapors that come off of it. Those vapors are invisible. It is a problematic way of using pot that requires extreme patience. Someone wanting to get high is not going to take that much time to do it more than once or twice. I expect this impatience has helped with the lie that you are vaping central to the attractiveness of "vape pens" pass.
What people using "vape pens" are doing is actually smoking oil. Hence the large clouds of smoke they exhale. I suspect that there is lipoid pneumonia coming from the legal products as well as those adulterated with VitE. The amount of lipoids getting to the lung is probably going to vary widely between vape pens and vape products. Even vape pens that burn hot enough fully charged will burn less hot as they lose their charge.
12
@magicisnotreal That doesn't sound right, and anybody who owns a water vaporizer (for humidity) or has boiled water or looked to the sky knows that vapor isn't invisible.
3
@David
Context context context.
We are talking about the fact that this thing being called "vaping" is being promoted on the basis that it is the same as vaping pot in the way it was conceived of to be vaped. You heat it up so that the VOC's vaporize invisibly and inhale them. The THC bearing parts of the plant are right there on the surface of the leaves and buds, little white semi transparent globules.
Of course water vapor (Fog) is visible. When is the last time you smoked water?
1
regarding pot, all the state politicians who conspired to violate the laws of the USA by making it legal under STATE LAW to consume pot should be prosecuted under federal law. possession, sale and use of pot is illegal under federal law. why doesn't the Executive branch of our federal government enforce the laws of the USA? these same people enforce the laws they want to enforce(immigration laws for instance) because "we are a nation of laws". of course, this policy of non-enforce of pot laws did not start with Trump's administration. trump simply followed Obama's lead.
1
@john boeger Unless there's as constitutional statement you can point to that suggests the federal government can ban part of nature, the actual right belongs to the States or the People.
2
@john boeger
So.. you are saying you are a pure "federalist" then, and that states have no rights to legislate and govern for their residents?
Not very republican of you.
3
If banning all vaping products and the nicotine pods frees users from a lifetime of a nicotine addiction, and saves lives, then why would any sane person complain about that?
The converse argument is, "Kids dying and getting addicted is simply the cost of doing business. Kids dying is the price society is willing to pay so some can have their nicotine or THC hit without the smell of cigarettes or pot."
I love how addicts are so ready to kill other people to get their stuff. It's such a blaring and obvious statement of the selfish addiction mindset.
3
@DidntGetheMemo "Nicotine addiction" is a lie http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3116468/ that "could only be sustained by systematically ignoring all contradictory evidence." The Surgeon General claims are flagrantly corrupt and biased, and were clearly concocted to serve the political agenda of outlawing tobacco.
1
Unrestricted vaping does not kill innocent bystanders. Unrestricted ownership of automatic weapons does.
Stricter gun control laws should be the true priority!
13
@JKengaged Automatic weapons are already banned for personal ownership. Unrestricted?
Stopped at the title: "Vaping Bad"
I'm sure someone thought the play on "Breaking Bad" was cute, but anyone NOT making the connection will read this as a blanket statement.
I have a family member with chronic pain who uses cannabis vape cartridges from a licensed dispensary here in California - where it's legal. She gets pain relief and can finally sleep better. So NO - vaping is NOT always BAD.
Now to read the article...
20
Humans!
If it was not going to be real cigarettes, we brought in e-cigarettes/vaping devices.
If Opioids pain killers are reduced in doctor offices, the trade on the market is booming.
Hospitals have fentanyl shortages, making us sue Dilaudid gtt (drips, yes in ICUs) but alleys behind the hospital are full of fentanyl junkies.
These self-same people are reluctant to take an antibiotic or a preventative vaccine, but it is perfectly alright to pour in vaporized THC, nicotine and whatever junk is in these cartridges (not tested, NOT FDA approved).
Humans, I have infallible faith in their addiction fallibilities.
I am also tired of these marijuana/THC/cannabis apologizers, forever ready to jump in with their excuses... the minute THC gets mentioned in the same breath as alcohol or nicotine.
5
@Ash.
Me, too. I've known many people for many years who are addicted to pot, and I can't think of one who has been very successful in life, even among those who are well-educated and have potential. It seems as if the drug has been sapping their ability to do better.
4
@Susan Obama did pretty well for himself. The fact that few promote their use is likely the result of it landing you in prison or dealing with the social disapproval of those who cannot handle liberty or that some people may not feel the need to pursue your ideal of productivity.
7
@Susan Paul McCartney is a Billionaire and admittedly smoked pot every day for decades. A small sample size of acquaintances does not provide a reliable lens to analyze Billions of people.
2
when my youngest was in high school, he told me about a class mate who had a nice cottage industry going filling vaping cartridges and selling them. I looked at the article to see if the name and location looked local. I do not know if the classmate was adding anything illegal, but this kid was not much Sheldon on big bang so the process and the equipment apparently was not rocket science or hard to obtain
@tom - I spent a year once working in a community college chemistry lab and the process is way over my head as is the necessary equipment for CO2 cartridges. However, I doubt this kid was going anything close to that.
This proves once again that prohibition is a failure. The prohibitionists always reference the dangers to "the children" in defense of their tyranny but they refuse to face the truth; their prohibition of adults leads to far more dangers for "the children" than legalized, regulated substances like beer and cigarettes.
This is why I always tell the prohibitionists that their inability to control their children has no bearing whatsoever on the activities of we adults. They can't control their own children yet they insist on trying to control adults and this insane behavior pattern only serves to make the situation worse for their children they claim they want to protect.
Learn to control your children. Your failure as parents is your problem, not ours. Stop making the problem worse by trying to shift the blame for your failure from yourselves onto adults.
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@bobd0
You make no sense. How does controlling adult behavior have anything to do with making situations worse for children?
News is interesting. They could skew public perception by posting negative PR by vaping and it’s consequential social repercussions or by giving vaping positive PR by comparing it to to harmful tobacco. Whatever the case may be the side effects of vaping are not fully understood yet. To publish such absolute facts like kids dying without presenting the amount of cancer deaths prevented by cig smokers switching over is biased presentation of information.
1
Serious government regulation and stiff fines and prison for violators will largely solve this problem with Merchants of Death.
An unregulated approach is an aider and abetter to injury and death.
May the Huffhines and all of their ethics-free cousins enjoy long prison sentences.
6
@Socrates
As always, liberals try to fix a problem and create a new one, LOL.
“It never comes up where they source it,” he said. “You don’t ask.” Yup, and that asymmetry in information about the product can be lethal. That 17-tear-old ha been lucky. So far.
It's buyer beware when it comes to anything to do with illicit drugs. Time to make them licit, and thus subject them to regulation. Such as accurate labelling.
"Nutriition values" for drugs? Why not, if it protects the foolish from themselves. Because that protection saves the rest of us a whack of cash. IOW, enlightened self-interest should be enough to prompt changes in the drug laws, so why isn't it happening?
3
Prohibition does not work. All you create is an illegal unsafe market where the likelyhood of harm is much greater because the product is unregulated. People have been doing drugs since the beginning of time. People will continue to do drugs no matter the legality. Cultural change is the answer. No easy thing. In the meantime, talk to your children about the risks associated with e-cigarettes and drugs in general. Teach them how to make rational intelligent decisions and to avoid dangerous behaviors. Tell them don't be fooled, e-cigarettes and nicotine are addictive trap. This is where we must start.
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@Buster
The same holds true for guns.
Prohibition does not work. All you create is an illegal unsafe market where the likelyhood of harm is much greater because the product is unregulated. People have been doing drugs since the beginning of time. People will continue to do drugs no matter the legality. Cultural change is the answer. No easy thing. In the meantime, talk to your children about the risks associated with e-cigarettes and drugs in general. Teach them how to make rational intelligent decisions and to avoid dangerous behaviors. Tell them don't be fooled, e-cigarettes and nicotine are addictive trap. This is where we must start.
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@Buster
It may be as difficult to convince children of these things as it may be to convince you that prohibition works.
1
It's heartening to see that there is at least one set of parents in the US that knows how to deal with their teenager. When they found his vaping cartridge they took him to the police, and the story of this illegal operation was exposed. Teenagers should not be vaping anything, legal or illegal.
4
@Jack Edwards You can't be older than 19 and claim to be a teenager.
2
I noticed "Ebay" and "Alibaba" were listed as sites were listed as marketing sites so I thought of checking the Amazon "rain forest" as well -- a zillion listings and by chance the first one to come up was:
"THRIVE Aromatherapy Personal Pen Diffuser - Natural Mint Essential Oils Infused with Vit C, B12, D3, E & CoQ10 - Portable Mood Boost…" with a product name "Luvv your Life"
If you have been following the carnage then you you know that investigators have concluded that vitamin E oils in vape devices might be one cause of the lung damage - and here it is, vitamin E openly sold as an inhale-able substance, ready in inhale in a vape device on the "rain forest" one week after that public announcement. "Lungs of the World" indeed.
Supposedly online market website such as "rain forest" are not liable for whats sold on them, but actually there have been exceptions:
- The infamous Kim Dotcom facing extradition to the US for hosting pirated movies and music on the website "Megaupload"
- and the termination of the prostitution site "Backpage" and arrest and finally a guilty plea of "human trafficking" of its CEO Carl Ferrer and others.
3
This is what happens when there is no uniform federal law regarding the legality of marijuana. Black markets proliferate in the place of a legal market. The federal government needs to get its head out of the sand on this one. If alcohol is legal then so should marijuana be. It’s a big political game.
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35,000 or so Americans were killed by the use of guns last year. Under 10 Americans were killed by the use of electronic cigarettes. Clearly electronic cigarettes are the larger problem.
Lots of common sense there!
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Spokespersons for the FDA will tell us that they do not know anything certain about E-cigarettes. They do not know whether or not these devices are harmful, whether they actually do help smokers quit cigarettes or whether or not they are a gateway to other forms of smoking. The only proactive thing the FDA has done is to ban sales to minors. And yet such products are allowed to be sold with all sorts of unproven claims about them. This sort of situation was common in the early 1900's with "patent medicines." A hundred years later, things haven't changed much, and still we haven't learned anything.
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@Susan The FDA is failing Americans. When dirty ball jars can be used to load cartridges, it's time to ban all E-Cigarettes. Imagine what bacteria was probably growing in those jars.
" An additional 98,000 cartridges lay empty. Fifty-seven Mason jars nearby contained a substance that resembled dark honey: THC-laced liquid used for vaping, a practice that is now at the heart of a major public health scare sweeping the country."
There is now pretty good evidence marijuana was outlawed for social and political reasons that have little to do with public health.
There continues to be an effort to cast aspersions on Cannibis by those who would profit from continuation of its status as an outlawed narcotic.
Research on Cannibis has been difficult to fund and accomplish because of the social and political suppression.
So, now @GOP policy institutes (specifically Scott Gottleib) have taken to twitter to try and fill the factual void with news stories INSTEAD of arguing to fund real research and data gathering.
Some country I live in.
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@Bert Gold It's frustrating. They are determined to keep it as a schedule 1....the private prison lobby is tight with many politicians...Medical research will never get the proper funding if it is still a considered to be a tool for keeping people in prisons. I am also wary of even republicans having money invested in high resin CBD hemp plants that are able to be within the federal regulation for THC levels. It's probably a good thing to have high resin CBD available for maybe a cheaper price, but I would think that the research and development for those plants most likely had some help from Monsanto, etc. The smaller growers will be shut out, and THC will still be a schedule 1. Horrible to think how many people have been incarcerated for many many years Since AG John Mitchell put it on schedule 1 with Nixon's blessings. All for a plant that DOES have very real medical benefits. The early Greeks even knew it. Some country, yes indeed.
11
"Vaping devices... have soared in popularity as a way to consume nicotine and THC." Therein lies the problem. Everything else is a natural and expected consequence. Caveat emptor!
6
I'm not sure if this is the case, but I suspect that the process of transforming the plant material (marijuana or tobacco) into the product (oils, "wax," crystals, etc) that is then burned in the vaping device should also be addressed.
4
On Wisconsin!
As I write this, we are a few minutes away from VIKINGS versus PACKERS. I live in some fear that anyone that I care about will be on the roads, because lots of the people driving those cars are plastered. Have been for a while. Will be for a while.
I know that this stuff is a problem, but if we can't handle the old ones, what are we going to do about the new ones?
19
This article is not entirely accurate. It is possible to use a vaporizer with marijuana leaf, as many people do, in which the vaporizer simply heats the plant material to a temperature below combustion, distilling off the volatile cannabinoids. Assuming clean and uncontaminated plant material, this process is bound to be less harmful than combustion, which produces carbon monoxide and a variety of other substances in the smoke.
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It's ironic that some kids at least, who would have tried vaping, now will not because of all this publicity. Sudden illness and death give pause even to most young people who tend to ignore long term health risks or the curse of addiction. It's a silver lining if this continues to happen to people.
5
To the best of my knowledge this illness has only appeared in the United States. Why? People in Canada and Europe vape. The answer, I suspect, has to do with the fact that other governments regulate the manufacture and sale of these products. So far, the FDA and other federal regulators have done nothing other than tell people not to vape and suggest prohibiting the sale of these products. Prohibition is a simple answer to a complex problem. It will only strengthen demand for vape products manufactured on the black market that are cut with dangerous chemicals and/or in unsanitary conditions.
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@Craig Axford I'm late for an appointment & would love to delve into this topic, but... I've heard from 2 sources that an additive called "vitamin E acetate" may be the culprit, in the cases where people got ill? If you research that specifically, you may find some interesting results? Gotta run!
3
@Craig Axford These product are regulated in California and Colorado . Counterfeiting the packaging seems to be a problem that the states that have legalized these products need to be vigilant about. Expecting anything Federal government is wishful thinking. Marijuana and it’s by products are still illegal under federal law. Even in the states where it’s legal, banks will not let legitimate businesses open bank accounts for fear of losing their charter.
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@Craig Axford
Other countries do not allow big business to turn their government agencies into industry lapdogs, like we do in our country...
8
It's time to legalize, and to bring this out of the shadows and into a regulated market.
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@Benjamin Hinkley
sadly, the Tavern League of Wisconsin will fight legalization tooth and nail, despite the fact that recent referendums overwhelmingly went towards it.
4
@Benjamin Hinkley
E-cigarettes are already legal. I am confused about what so many folks here want to legalize, spiking them with any number of illicit drugs from THC/PCP (angel dust) to crystal meth? That would be a good idea? I’m confused.
1
@Patrick
People want to legalize cannabis products, allowing for the regulation of cannabis vape cartridges. This would prevent them from being filled with dangerous adulterants. PCP has nothing to do with anything, nor does crystal meth.
3
"It might have been the perfect place for a drug operation, (…)he subdivision as a mix of busy professionals and families who do not socialize much"
The lack of community ties and neighborhood relationships contributed to the opening and almost under the radar functioning of this illegal "factory". This in turn endangered the local school children (and many others). There is a relationship between lack of community and increased illegal activities.
40
No one has time for “community”.
We are all working 2 jobs and not getting any respect.
When the workday is over- you want to watch tv or numb yourself somehow in preparation for the coming day’s indignities and humiliations.
7
@American
And perhaps vape a bowl.
Regulation and legalization will not fix the problem. On one side, there are always people who are trying to make a fast buck and on the other side, there are always people who are willing to buy bootleg goods because they are cheaper. What would be a fair punishment is for these guys to have to vape several cartridges a day of their own product. It would be interesting to see if they would even be willing to do so.
20
@S.L.
In most things in life, the bootleg version isnt actually cheaper. Mass brewed beer and distilled alcohol are way cheaper than bathtub moonshine for instance.
Theres no evidence that these two are selling carts that are tainted in which case having to vape THC all day wouldnt really be a punishment.
4
@S.L.
The vast majority of people would rather use a regulated, legal product than a risky black-market equivalent.
5
@S.L.
"Regulation and legalization will not fix the problem."
And how much bootleg whiskey is in your neighborhood?
Or bootleg cigarettes ?
14
We need some good research to determine if commercial vaping products are dangerous or if it's just the black market products. Right now it's looking like it's the black market ones.
It is possible to vape marijuana without any chemicals. There are devices for sale that will heat up actual marijuana to a temperature where the THC vaporizes and can be absorbed.
The claim some have made that introducing any hot substance into the lungs is dangerous appears to have no basis whatsoever. It's the combustion that occurs when smoking that creates the dangerous chemicals since temperatures may reach very high levels.
One interesting difference is that the smell of smoked cannabis will linger for hours, often until the next morning, while the smell of vaped cannabis dissipates quickly. An indication of the different chemical composition between smoke and vapor.
Smoke is always toxic. Vapor can be quite benign. Consider steam, a vapor. I use steam to open up my nasal passages if I get a cold. Just be careful to not over do it. I use a commercially available device to generate steam at a safe rate.
27
@Jack Toner - You say: "Right now it's looking like it's the black market ones."
As investigators proceed, inhalation of Vitamin E oils has been officially mentioned as a possible cause based on materials found in the devices of the afflicted. That's not black market - that's available on Amazon today. (See my comment above for an actual product example). I would call that a "grey" market.
4
"At a safe rate" Now that is a good one - Ha !
@Jack Toner - The pen on my desk will either take flower at the end or one could screw on one of those god awful cartridges with the glycerol.
A mantra from the Age of Reagan. Government is the problem not the solution. Deregulate and let the “invisible hand” work it’s magic with the market.
Such sophistry conveniently sets a social distance between the consumer and providers of vendable goods. This results in a lack of accountability.
These two brothers will be punished, meanwhile the big players in abusing the loopholes of regulation or overturning regulation, will skip Scott Free, hidden by their lawyers and compliant Congressmen.
All in the spirit of “Choice” and “Serving the Consumer”, of course.
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@Rick
NO... in this case... LEGALIZE & REGULATE is what is required.
Legalization puts bootleggers under pressure to move on to something else, and legalization comes with better regulation and restriction on access to minors.
5
@Rick - Good point. No one at "big players" Juul, Phillip Morris, Atria, Vuse, R.J. Reynolds, British American Tobacco et al. will likely ever be prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity although their entire lives are based on delivery of death.
3
One word: Regulation.
Or, two words: Legalization and Regulation.
Cures a host of ills.
225
If nicotine has helped 13 million adults quit smoking.
Raise the age of vaping and cigarettes to 27. So only adults se the addictive products.
5
@BearSkee:
I think you've missed the point. Some of those who got sick and some who died were vaping these "street sourced" mixtures of nicotine, THC and who-knows-what-else.
Yes, the original nicotine only vaping devices have helped people stop smoking. But what they're talking about here is totally different and not limited to teens.
36
@BearSkee yeah, increasing the drinking age completely stopped kid from getting drunk. I spent a lot of time when I was 16-17 in bars drinking. Every Friday and Saturday night. By the time I was 22 I had had enough of alcohol and drugs. I grew up. This is not uncommon, many who spent their teens experimenting get over it as they age.
Of course the media finds stories of people that can not control themselves (I have friends that greet the day with a joint who are 60). The person that has a occasional drink and gets high on their day off doesn’t make very exciting news.
8
So it’s ok for men and women to vote and serve their country at 18, but you want to take away their freedom of choice to vape or smoke? I don’t think that would be an effective way to decrease use. Education, free access to harm reduction and public campaigns have proven to be successful.
3
Let’s stop with the moral panic, recognize that we won’t ever successfully ban vaping, nicotine or marijuana, legalize these products and then do the necessary scientific research to determine what the safest ingredients and technology is with the fewest side effects and long term risks, and then regulate the market thoroughly to ensure these proven items are used exclusively.
Will the result be 100% risk free, like a glass of reverse-osmosis purified water? No, but that’s a false standard, nothing is that risk free.
Anyone who thinks some kind of prohibition/ban will have any effect other than mollifying their moral impulses is indulging in fantasy. From alcohol prohibition to the utter failure of the war on drugs, prohibitions and bans do nothing but maximize risk and the worst possible outcomes.
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@Mobocracy
Legalization is a good idea, but it won't solve this problem. Teenagers still won't be able to buy anything with THC legally. And even many adults will buy black market cartridges if they're cheaper than in a store -- which they will be, including because they are not taxed and regulated.
13
@Nelle Engoron
The black market carts are only cheaper because getting a hold of quality carts is hard. If regulated carts were more widespread people wouldnt consume the ones make with black market chemicals as much.
14
@Mobocracy - Sounds good but I see a weakness in your suggestion of -- "legalize these products and then do the necessary scientific research to determine what the safest ingredients and technology is with the fewest side effects and long term risks".
That's was exactly the stated logic behind legalizing synthetic opioids for legal prescription use. The devil is in the details and the power of money to corrupt medical scientific research and government decision making.
9
There you go. With all the hysteria directed at the legit industry I knew there had to be another story. This reminds me, a little bit, of buying beer when I was 16. There always was a way.
32
@Stephen Nieman
There's a world of separation between a few beers, even if too many, and a one hit trip to the emergency room. So the decriminalization of weed has led to modern day variants that should probably be illegal if they kill people. Sorry there's a far cry from some wholesome weed you can touch and feel to know what it is to a vape product smoking God knows what cut by privateers. Beer is not cut or doctored, simply taxed at the barrel.
It's important for both journalists, and readers, to steer away from conflating these black market cannabis cartridges with legitimate nicotine products made, and sold by professionals. Nicotine vaporizers have helped more than 13M adult smokers quit using deadly tobacco products, and should be supported and applauded. The Royal College of Physicians and Public Health England have BOTH agreed that nicotine vapor is AT LEAST 95% SAFER than combustible tobacco.
NICOTINE VAPOR SAVES LIVES.
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@Jeff
As a former 3-pack-a-day smoker, I disagree. I went to vaping after smoking, and to suggest it's a life saver is exceptionally misleading. It's a replacement. Period.
I agree that inhaling any heated anything is bad for you. But let's not lose sight of the fact that nictone - period - is bad for you as well. Whether it be in gum, chew, patches, lozenges, cigarettes, or vapes, it's bad for you.
"95% safer" does not mean "safe."
122
@S James Well it does mean safer and 95% safer is quite a difference.
As for nicotine itself being bad for you, I guess that's the 5%. It is addictive and mind altering for a very short period of time. But it doesn't cause lung cancer or emphysema.
I'm pretty sure Jeff knows it's a replacement. A replacement which is 95% safer than smoking. Not sure why you're so confused about this but I have noticed that ex-smokers tend to be quite intolerant of those who still smoke.
19
@S James; it's always about DOSAGE.
Cigarettes were counted by how many packs a day. The patches used to help quit had various levels of nicotine to taper off.
If a person wants to quit rather than change nicotine sources, they can use the vape less and less frequently or buy cartridges with successively lower nicotine content.
5
Perhaps it is time that we quit trying to regulate something as benign as nicotine. In contrast to cigarettes that are extremely addictive, nicotine alone is only mildly addictive as shown by both animal studies and human clinical trials. Nicotine also has no known toxicities at the levels generated by vaping, or for that matter generated by cigarette smoking. At high concentrations, nicotine is certainly toxic but not at low concentrations. Indeed, virtually any substance is toxic at a high enough concentration. For example, if for whatever reason you choose to consume polar bear liver, you will certainly develop toxic symptoms and may well die from the extremely high levels of vitamin A in polar bear liver!
Nicotine may, in fact, have health benefits. It is a stimulant and appetite suppressant, hence consuming will almost certainly result in weight loss. Nicotine is also a neural anti-inflammatory and may help prevent some dementias such as Parkinson's disease. Clinical trials are currently underway to determine if, in fact, nicotine is useful for preventing Parkinson's.
10
@Rob-Chemist
Your claim that nicotine is not addictive is simply false. Yalemedicine.org (search vaping-nicotine-addiction) cites studies that conclude that nicotine is not only addictive, but that it rewires the developing brain. Adults under the age of 25 are particularly vulnerable. Animal studies show that nicotine causes issues with brain function, and if these effects occur in humans it could lead to problems with focus, memory and learning.
Although nicotine may have some health benefits, the potential for damage to the developing adolescent brain must be considered to guide the regulation of this drug.
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@James Ankney
@Rob-Chemist is not claiming that nicotine isn't addictive. The point is that cigarette smoke contains nicotine plus 3,000 other substances. Nicotine vaped alone is not as addictive as cigarette smoke.
7
Howard, Rob is incorrect that nicotine is “mildly” addictive
It is addictive. Smaller amts less than lg, but addictive
It is THE substance in tobacco that makes them addictive
The tobacco co’s fought hard to keep levels up for a reason
And you may be right, it is an appetite suppressant (and I believe reduced smoking rates (and increased marketing, lower costs of snacks) contributed to our obesity/diabetes epidemic) but “on the other hand” nicotine, tobacco & second hand smoke may be responsible for the Alzheimer epidemic affecting Boomers in this country, so be careful prescribing nicotine for Parkinsons (which seems like odd therapy, something that makes you jumpy to prevent(treat?) tremors?
6
Back when I was a teen in middle tennessee, it was near impossible to get alcohol, but easy to get anything that was illegal. I can’t believe THC isn’t regulated and taxed across the country. It’s easier to keep out of the hands of youth if you have control over the supply, and tax revenues could pay for education.
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@Michael
Regulate?? Make it legal with strict rules Heck no, this is the U.S. you’re talking about. I’m here in the Netherlands doing research for a book. Here, realizing that these things will always attract some, many are legal, within boundaries. Even the red light district is being tightened up...and a new restriction- no party hardy in the border towns. There had been too many coming over from border nations and things were getting too rowdy.
It would be great if we took a page from the Dutch, but that would be way too sensible. Never happen.
4