What about ARISE? And PASS?
This Wednesday’s puzzle was horrible. The worst I can remember. Too many clues made little to no sense.
9
I should explain my dislike some. The theme clues were godawful and uselesswqs.my main gripe. Much comment was about Yates, Bourbon & Beale, SDS and such. Those three were gummies I thought. One of the few benefits of being old.
1
Oof. Can't say this was my favorite puzzle. After having to look up several, and still making little headway, I capitulated and revealed puzzle. Some (hopefully constructive) feedback:
As others have noted, 38A is clunky - both because of "FORINSTANCE,' and because "the world" really should refer only to our Earth. If it were clued "a world" there'd be some flexibility, but using the definite article to refer to MARS doesn't seem playfully misleading; it just seems wrong.
Given the overall difficulty of the puzzle, LEE, INIGO, and really the whole SE corner could've used easier clues.
I'd also quibble that Ace = Pro. Guys with 6.00 ERAs in A- ball are PROS. Guys like Kershaw, Verlander, and Scherzer are aces. The clue led me looking for a synonym of ace, which PRO is not.
Unless at least one of them is very well-known, I'd also keep away from crossing proper nouns (looking at you, ZAHN-NEYO).
All that said, I LOVED the idea of the theme, and thought 17A and 24A were pretty clever. And I know some people here complain a lot, and we can be kind of nitpicky, but thank you to both Deb and Nick for bringing us this puzzle today. I've tried a few times to construct one, and it's a difficulty I don't think most people can imagine until you've done it. And, given the date the puzzle ran, we should all be reminded there are far more important things to be upset about, and we should all be a little kinder toward one another. So thanks again - I was glad to have this puzzle today.
6
I think I'd be fine I had to wait another 35 years before encountering GSTAAD again.
9
Today was way too tricky for a Wednesday? I threw in the towel. 😉
7
@Deb, who said: "I so wanted “Like some terriers” to be HARD HEADED. It turns out that the answer is WIRE-HAIRED, but take it from me: Do not bring a terrier into your home unless you are prepared to live with an animal that thinks faster than you do. And has a rudimentary knowledge of tools and how to use them. And likes to keep busy, no matter what the dog decides that means. I think they are a hoot, but if you are looking for a doorstop with fur, think about rescuing a retired greyhound instead."
Speaking as a terrier owner, agreed on all counts except you missed the clue element "Some" terriers... that ruled out HARD-HEADED. I haven't met one yet that wasn't HARD-HEADED.
1
I had to check to see if it is a full moon causing all of the negative vibes about this puzzle. However, the full moon isn't until Friday.
I think this puzzle is great but I am easy and I think all puzzles are interesting, if not great. Sometimes I don't think the theme is great but I always admire the construction of the puzzle, having tried and failed.
As Barry often points out, a clue is just a clue. Putting a bird in a hand is clever even if you personally don't think a HIRED PERSON is a HIRED HAND. It is certainly close enough to qualify.
I a fairly new to the comment section and I never have put anything educational in my comments but I appreciate those who do. Nor have I previously commented about anyone's negative comments. I just usually pass them by to look for informative or witty comments.
Back to looking for positive/informative/witty comments. Have a good day
11
The more things change . . . .
Here's Deb responding to comments about the September 14, 2016 Thursday puzzle in which the first word of each clue in the puzzle was an anagram. It elicited 344 comments, and many of them were, um, negative. Deb was sitting shiva and still managed to corral the troops before Wordplay turned into Wordfight.
Deb Amlen
Wordplay, The Road TourSept. 15, 2016
Hello everyone,
I'm out sitting shiva for a very close relative right now, but I want to let everyone know that there are staff members watching this column to make sure that people adhere to standards.
It's perfectly fine to have negative feelings (or positive or neutral feelings, for that matter; I thought it was terrifically challenging) for a puzzle and to express that here. However, personal attacks on the puzzle maker, the editors, this column or The New York Times are not allowed, and neither is profanity. If you don't like that, move on and comment on another site.
This is a reminder to anyone who might feel that it's O.K. to do otherwise that we use our grownup words and our inside voices here. Also, that emus have very sharp beaks and do not take violations of our standards lightly. It can get you banned from the entire site. So by all means, state your opinion, but do it civilly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/crosswords/trapped.html
5
@Puzzlemucker
Not sure why I'm taking this Wordplay history tour, but the comments for the Patrick Blindauer Thursday puzzle from September 11, 2014 make me realize why more constructors don't interact with Wordplay commenters . Patrick tried.
WP Commenter: "I have to say, I have never given up on a NYT puzzle until this one, and not because I couldn't have solved it, but because it was so $#%@& irritating. . . I found it so infuriating I tore the puzzle up and refuse to go back to it . . . , Lay off the cr@p! Themes are fine, just don't clog up an entire puzzle with them."
Patrick responded: "You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but plenty of people thought the theme was great and called this one of their favorites--I'm still getting fan mail about it. Clearly not everyone could handle it.
Sounds like you might have anger management issues, too . Have you considered seeing a professional?"
3
@Puzzlemucker
OK. The Wordplay history tour is about to end. But if you want to be amused, enter a search of “NYT Wordplay [plus date]” for any Wednesday over the past 6 years or so, and that should give you a link to the Wordplay column and comments for that week’s Thursday puzzle. Then, read the Comments. I tried “October 14, 2015” and here were the first two comments that appeared:
WP Commenter 1: “Worst. Puzzle. Ever.”
WP Commenter 2: “This puzzle was a marvel of construction.”
5
Wow, trivia overload this week! I ended up with a ton of empty squares where obscure names crossed other obscure names, then at the end did a big lookup-fest to fill in the remaining squares super fast. Loved the theme, but not a great puzzle IMO.
6
Two objections to a fine puzzle (apologies if this is repetitive of earlier comments):
As others have noted, this felt like a Thursday or Friday in difficulty, at least for me. My time was in between my Thursday and Friday averages. That doesn't detract from the puzzle at all; I just wish Will had run it later in the week, so I could feel good about my time instead of bad.
Second is that "Mars, for instance" is not a "World." "Mars" is the world; "for instance" is just filler stuck on afterwards. (Apologies in advance if I am missing something tricky here.)
That objection does not apply to the other theme entries, and I was especially impressed with "SPA ACCESSORY," which can look like a mistake even after you have all the letters.
More of these, please, but on a different day!
5
DYT,
I'm a bit confused by your two objections:
I hadn't noticed anyone else calling this a Thursday or Friday level puzzle, but if you did, why apologize for agreeing with them?
To me, Earth is "the" world. I'm fine with calling another planet "a" world; am I missing something?
1
DYT,
Sorry on #2. I think I read your objection backwards (or it was backwards?).
I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing this: after several years subscribing to the Crossword, my access to Wordplay is suddenly limited to a few articles per month. I have never had this limitation before and it really seems odd, particularly since subscribers can only get to the answer key through Wordplay. Any clues as to what is going on?? Thanks!
6
Hi @ozmama, That shouldn't be. Wordplay is in front of the paywall so people can comment as much as they want.
Please send an email to [email protected] and let them know. Thanks for your patience.
1
@Deb Amlen Thanks, Deb - I'll do that! Love your column, btw!
3
@ozmama this started happening to me, too! so frustrating!
1
If the NYT needs someone to read through puzzle submissions before they go to print, kind of like an editor, let me know. I'd love to help out.
- Garbage fill: STS, SDS, STET, UNA, XIS, ANAT, RANDR, HAR... This should have been sent back for revisions based solely on this.
- HIRED PERSON and SPA ACCESSORY are *barely* synonyms for hand and towel.
- MARS may be a world but it is not THE world. FOR INSTANCE doesn't make any logical sense based on the clue. Even after I had it filled in completely through all the downs I still didn't get it it and thought I must've screwed something up.
- Thousands of ways to clue for LEE and we go with a reference to a Confederate memorial? Cool.
- This is a Wednesday puzzle. If you need to clue for INIGO, go with The Princess Bride instead of 17th century architects.
- Is SIS a nickname? Because BRO isn't a nickname.
- Instead of a TV show that ended in 1965 left syndication in the early 70s, how about a more relevant clue for YATES? Sally Yates. Capt. Mike Yates. A Nobel prize-winning Irish poet with a spelling error.
16
@Tom Servo, SIS is the counterpart to BUD. My mom's nickname was SIS. We called her brother BUD.
Tom,
Interesting comments on the clues, but I think I'll ask The Times to stick with Will. Regarding SDS as "garbage fill," if "garbage fill" means irrelevant, I have to assume you weren't in Madison in the 60's or early 70's (and don't know anyone who was there).
5
@Barry Ancona
Barry,
I wasn't on earth until the mid-80's so you've got me there. SDS by itself isn't garbage fill and I didn't mean to suggests that what the SDS did was/is unimportant. They still discuss the UW student protests in HS US history here which is where I learned about it. I work right down the street from the Army Math bombing site.
Puzzles that are heavy on initialisms, acronyms, abbreviations, and other crosswordese just feel tedious to me. I understand that they're often necessary with theme puzzles in order to make that theme work. Without the reward of a clever or satisfying theme though all these structural non-words feel even more tedious and "garbagey"
Also irrelevant ≠ garbage. As a 90's kid with only 15 years of NYT crossword experience I think I'm probably overly sensitive to out-dated cultural references.
2
although Deb seems out-gunned today I hope she will take solace at the number of diligent readers of her daily column who care enough about her reputation to gently correct small errors.
solve on.
7
@Patrick
Hand up for general Deb appreciation.
What’s up with two days’ worth of ganging up on Deb, anyway? It’s like someone yelled SNARK! in a movie theater.
14
@Patrick
"Always Outnumbered, Always Outgunned" -- Walter Mosley (great book of short stories by author of Easy Rawlins detective series). Solidarity, Deb! I read over comments from 2014-2016 this morning and, while there are more commenters now, Deb was pulling off the same high-wire act back then, keeping this space interesting, safe, informative and fun, with the joy of crosswords as its lodestar.
3
@Patrick. I noticed the error in Deb's column last night, but I saw that it had already been mentioned in the comments (even though there were only a few comments by that time). If there had been more comments than I'd had time to (or cared to) read, I would have been certain that someone else had already mentioned it. This is a sharp group!
2
Royally disappointing offering today. Not one of the theme entries was an interesting find. WTH is a HIRED PERSON? Hired *gun* is a thing. Hired *person*? Not so much. MARS FOR INSTANCE? Is that the name of a band that I've never heard of or something that people outside my social circle are saying?
The primary difference between Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune is that Jeopardy answers (or questions if you will) are legitimate things that could be featured in a good themeless puzzle. Wheel's tendency to use nouns paired with random adjectives makes their material feel made up (e.g. recent bonus round puzzle was "frothy drink" or today's SPA ACCESSORY). This puzzle felt like an episode of Wheel.
9
Julian,
A HIRED PERSON is the "hand" of the clue (maybe the gender-specific "hired man" rings a bell?).
MARS, FOR INSTANCE is the "word" of the clue.
Whether they're of interest to you or not is your call, of course, but they do make sense.
..."word" of the clue.
..."world" of the clue.
1
@Barry Ancona
I think the point was that linguistically it was a stretch.
Oh that burst of glee when I finally figured out the theme! I love that feeling of going from frustration to illumination.
4
Neat puzzle -- but not so neat because of many entertainment reference lookups I needed to do.
OTOH many pf the clues referencing older material were "gimmes". 68A was my fave. Now if someone could do POTUS 45 as a puppet ......LOL
The theme to this puzzle was fun, but the fill was a bit frustrating as others have voiced here. There were a few crossing pronouns without enough deducible crosses to suss them out. INIGO/GSTAAD was particularly bad, but ZAHN/NEYO, and YATES/LEONA/FSTOP were frustrating as well.
5
Thomas,
FSTOPS was in yesterday's puzzle...
3
@Barry Ancona
And...
2
Surprised to have to do multiple look-ups on a Wednesday (Avatar singer, Rawhide, Mortimer dummy voice). So it goes.
4
So it goes
At 8:44, 18 years AGO, I walked into a classroom, working in Chinatown, facing south and saw the elegaic burning tower. I was there for another hour and watched the the towers burn.
RIP all who lost their lives that SAD day. The SMELL walking to work weeks and months later was forever INKED into our noses and hearts.
5
Louise,
Were you the teacher in that classroom? If so, how were your students ... and their families?
3
I solved the puzzle ok....but I don’t know how you did it using GUNS. instead of ARMS for 56 across! Love your column every day.
3
Thank you for the kind words, @Christina. That was my goof, and I've corrected it in the column.
1
Q. What do you call vodka mixed with Milk of Magnesia?
Queasy Mary?
6
@Etaoin Shrdlu
Phillips screwdriver.
6
Intersecting proper nouns - ruins any puzzle IMO.
7
I solved late and thus on autopilot again last night, exactly what I’d sworn so many times I’d never do. Semi-conscious solving almost always makes me skip the theme altogether, which is a shame. I read the WP column today and, once again, wish I’d paid attention last night instead of just zooming through. There oughtta be a pill.
Like others below, I knew neither YATES nor LEONA and got what would have been the missing E because - English.
4
"...because - English."
Sam,
Handy, isn't it?
4
@Barry Ancona
:)
This puzzle offered me lots of twists and turns so I was really pleased that I was able to figure them all out.
Thanks for a satisfying solve, Ned! I look forward to reading your new novel. If the plot twists and turns from beginning to end, it must be a satisfying read!
Cedar waxwing by Mac Knight:
https://pbase.com/macknight/image/23132722
9
@Barry Ancona
Thanks, Barry. That's a great shot. I just read through some old Wordplays in search of comments by Jimbo57 and Mac Knight was present in some.
1
@Barry Ancona
Cedar Waxwing? Isn’t he the Philadelphia Flyers net minder? 🏒
N.B. For recent arrivals to the Wordplay comments, this is a piece about Mac Knight:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/28/crosswords/mac-knight-1952-2018.html
3
Found this one much more challenging than the typical Wednesday. The theme, in particular, called for repeated careful observation and contemplation. Even when it was all filled in, I still did not feel confident.
2
Agreed. And I thoroughly enjoyed it.
2
It's rare for me to enjoy a puzzle with tiny little circles, but I found the theme clues and answers of this one crunchy and fun. I enjoyed all the thinking I had to do to figure them out -- more thinking than I would have had to do had there not been so many obscure proper names I didn't know. That was the downside of the puzzle for me, but I think the upside outweighs it. Clever and imaginative.
4
Three of my six dogs are terriers! You are so right-should have been “hard-headed “!
9
@NMS You have my respect for having three of them!
3
Yesterday we got a racist stereotype. Today we get a racist monument. There are dozens of ways to clue an extremely common last name. Why does the New York Times see fit to use a symbol of rebellion against the US to do so?
5
Andy,
Referencing it does not support it, ignoring it does not solve anything. I heard this reference in person, and I'm always happy -- and sad -- to be reminded of it:
"But not only that. Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia. Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee. Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi, from every mountain side. Let freedom ring . . ."
14
The NYT sees fit to clue a well known (particularly for its controversy) statue of an equally well known historical figure of a well know civil conflict of our country. Presumable it does so because it’s an easy clue for a Wednesday puzzle. What nefarious designs are you imputing to our newspaper of record? Or would you rather the average American not be familiar with the Civil War or its shadow, one with which we’re still grappling today?
“Those who cannot [or refuse to] remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
9
Oh, and also this: I find whingeing about racism where there isn’t any particularly annoying and counterproductive because people who engage in it might spend that energy on doing something that actually furthers equality.
Racism in a NYT puzzle clue... Oh please. I remember first moving to the South some years ago (not Texas) and on my first day finding myself sitting in traffic looking at a confederate flag bumper sticker with, “We all get along 6 feet under.” *That’s* racism. Don’t insult the fine, intelligent people who construct and edit the NYT puzzles and provide us a few minutes’ escape from what can be a very ugly world.
7
Throughout most of the Rawhide TV series, Rowdy YATES (Clint Eastwood) was a subordinate character to trail boss Gil Favor (Eric Fleming), who was initially the one true series lead. So I always think of YATES as a supporting character. But due to Eastwood's popularity, he did emerge as a co-lead as the series progressed. Then after Fleming left the series, YATES became trail boss of the cattle drive and Eastwood briefly became the primary lead for a truncated final season.
So there's enough cover in all this to justify the clue. But it rings wrong to me, just slightly.
Hi, Kids!
Alan J and I are the age of your [Hi,] Mom or Grandma, but unlike Alan J, I needed all of the crosses for YATES. Age and wheelhouse are not the same thing.
3
The 50A themer took me longer than the entire rest of the puzzle. I may have seen an episode of "Rawhide" in the early 60's, and I thought I remembered Rowdy Gaines, or Gains...and naturally a singer for a movie I never saw (LEONA) was no help. Rowdy BANES? BATES?
Ii had also misspelled GSTADT (sounded right) and I use OXYCLEAN all the time, without, it seems, spelling it correctly. (And, yes, I walked all the way to the laundry room to check. Since most of our furniture is still in Arkansas, we are rattling around in this 3 BR house, but it's great to be settled after 3 months in the 1 BR apartment. Cozy!)
Oh, the puzzle. Who thinks these things up? Wow. Ned White....I know we've seen him before. Wasn't he the villain in "True Grit?" (ha ha, just kidding. That was Ned Pepper.)
This was a Wednesday puzzle with teeth, IMHO. Good one!
4
@Mean Old Lady
Rowdy Gaines was a champion swimmer/Olympic gold medalist in the late 70s and 80s. Because of the 1980 boycott of the games in Moscow, he missed a lot of chances, but he did medal in 1984. He also is a long-time commentator for swimming coverage on television. Perhaps this is why he is close to to surface in your memory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowdy_Gaines
3
56A: The answer to “Provides pieces for” is GUNS, because GUNS are sometimes known as pieces.
Actually, it was "arms"
12
@gideon brenner thank you because I was stuck and really confused once I read Guns in Debs column.
@gideon brenner Came here to say the same thing! Otherwise YATES doesn't work, etc.
Hi @gideon brenner Thank you (and thanks to all who commented, with multiple exclamation marks and everything), I've fixed it in the column.
3
I was Never Donny then, and I'm Never Donny now.
Very clever theme!
9
@Ann
Marie carried him.
2
@Puzzlemucker
That doesn't explain Donny Now.
1
@Ann
I think Deb needed an upper age cap on her comment about women over 50. I'm definitely above the cap on the high end.
For me back then, there was a very high ICK factor to his two big hits: They Called It Puppy Love and Go Away Little Girl.
1
A “Solve” - not “completion” - in spite of a single, desperate peek. I knew that the “Swiss ski resort” had two of some letter - so I went with GSTAdD - - because that fit for iPAdACCESSORY at 50A. (Hadn’t figured out the bit about circled letters at that point.) But that left a little “stinker” at 50D. Still 50A looked SO “right”!
For some reason, I got “stubborn” and flyspecked the whole puzzle - which cost me a small dent in my average.
When I DID pick up on the theme, it helped in the solve - - but not through traditional AHA moments. These were more like HUH? or WHAAAA? moments - but the sun finally came up!
Is there no END to the ingenuity of our constructors?!? I am, once again, awed.
I’m afraid that @jaded is going to be upset again today though.
Suggested alternate title for the waxwing picture today:
“Now that we’re organized, what shall we do next?”
(Those naked branches don’t seem to offer much in the way of “refuge”.)
1
The Cedar Waxwings are incredibly lovely birds--this photo doesn't do them justice--and hang out in flocks. Every year they visited some of the trees and shrubs in our neighborhood for the berries, which apparently made them drunk....
2
@Mean Old Lady
Hey! If you're gonna zoom around in the open sky at 20-30 mph with dozens of your buddies, what better state to do so in than WHACKED on unregulated chemical substances?!?!
56A isn't GUNS!!! OMG!!!!! It's ARMS!!!!
And I'm so certain that I'm the first person to mention this that I don't even need to read any previous posts!!
9
@Barry Ancona
Sorry, everybody, if my comment was rude. I don't want to discourage anybody from commenting. I love reading all the great posts here, but I get frustrated having to wade through at least five posts about an insignificant and understandable mistake, and I don't think I'm the only one.
Please read previous comments before posting! The dignity you save may be your own!
8
@ad absurdum
ha ha, that's so funny! I don't think we are required to read every post before we post. That would limit posts to those who have nothing else to do. I think the "limitation" is mainly to keep the SB users in their place, umm, I mean, to keep them gathered in one convenient spot.
3
@ad absurdum I appreciate your post, but Mary also has a good point. Because of the activity in the comments section, it's unreasonable to ask everyone to go back and read every single comment before posting. Believe it or not, I don't even have time to do that, although I enjoy the overall conversation.
The comments section exists for camaraderie and opinions about the puzzle, NOT other people. (@ad absurdum, the rest of this diverges from your comment, so feel free to tune out).
Wordplay is a product of The New York Times, and is not a privately run blog, like Rex Parker or Diary of a Crossword Fiend. This column is required to adhere to standards of civility that the others are not. Also, I personally believe that there is more than one way to look at a puzzle than with an eye toward criticism, and overall enjoyment of this game sets a positive tone for my day. I hope it does the same for yours as well.
A spirit of camaraderie and kindness does not mean that readers can't have a negative opinion about the puzzle or what I write, but before *anyone* posts here, I would respectfully suggest the following protocol:
Ask yourself if you would say that to the person's face if you were in conversation with them at a party. If the answer is "no, that would be hurtful in some way" think twice before you hit the Submit button.
30
Just to be clear (I've reviewed the posts so far and don't see it mentioned)...
Bourbon and Beale are not just "streets" but musical streets, tied to the characteristic sounds of their cities:
Bourbon Street Parade (for example)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuQPfZGVBus
and
Beale Street Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKnAub5-LNE
Nothing wrong with a little Louis Armstrong
on a cloudy Wednesday morning.
4
David,
I would have gone with Basin over Bourbon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRjT4h7F_jw
2
@David Connell
There is nothing ever wrong with a little Louis Armstrong, whatever the weather.
I got married to “What a Wonderful World” on a beautiful sunny afternoon.
4
Last year, a pair of cedar waxwings nested in our maple tree. They were great company.
1
Slow start for me, but I finally caught on with PERFORATION and I did use the theme to help me get through the rest. MARSFORINSTANCE is so odd that it made me chuckle. Some factual unknowns slowed me down, but at least I remembered there was something called THEOC (that O was the last thing I filled in).
Off on my usual trip through clue histories at Xword Info. Wondered how often DOODLE had been clued in reference to 'Yankee.' Answer: Once. In 25 appearances. Then thought of a possible clever clue for YANKEEDOODLE, and... it's been done; in 1984. Clue was "Steinbrenner scribble."
Moving on - 24a led me to think about MUDDERANDFODDER as a possible answer. Was surprised to find that that's been done too (1978). And that eventually led me to think of Camp Grenada (hi kids).
And lastly, any reference to the Rolling Stones will always make me think of our late, great commenter Jimbo57. So I'll go with that and Beale ST. as inspiration for my music link today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61jfm219ArA
..
6
Missing Jimbo's posts again now....
1
@Rich in Atlanta
Today is an "elegaic" day. So, I spent the better part of the last hour searching for Wordplay posts by Jimbo57, randomly searching old Wordplays on dates around Sept. 11 for 2014-2016. It was quite a rabbit hole, skimming through old Wordplay comments. I found a bunch of Jimbo57 comments but none linking to the Rolling Stones (although I wasn't around here back then, I know that was his trademark). Then, I found this one which links to a song by the Roches called "Love Radiates Around". It's playing on my work computer speakers right now (my third listen). It is such a beautiful song and seems appropriate for today and in memory of Jimbo57:
Jimbo57 Oceanside NY September 19, 2015
Did somebody run a Margaret Farrar puzzle today by accident? So many obscure factoids, not much wordplay. I pulled up a bunch of stuff I forgot I knew, but took me well over an hour to finish, including a time-out before sorting out the NW, when SNEAKIN finally replaced BREAKIN. Initial gimmes NANCE, LESTER and RIRE weren't much help getting started. The Ball clue didn't fool me. Add me to the list of kvibblers over stuff like AUTOCADES and TOYERS. My brain feels BASTED after this one.
The Roches--sisters Maggie, Terre, and Suzzy (sic.)--with their sublime 1985 single "Love RADIATEs Around":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsGPYdxocgs
1
Isn’t 56A “ARMS” not “GUNS?”
9
ProfK,
Yes, it is.
2
Hmmm. At the risk of repeating myself, and with a nod to the first two posts here and echoes of them throughout the night...
Hi, Kids! In the old days, all copy going into The Times was read by people called COPY EDITORS...
16
"...echoes of them throughout the night..."
...and into the new day...
(sigh)
2
This one lands in my ‘go back to bed; it’ll make more sense after a power nap’ file. So I did.......and it did; to an extent...I don’t perceive a PERFORATION, on the whole, as a hole. More a fold, as a tear away indicator and guide, if you get what I’m saying. Looking deeper into the conundrum, I now get it. Videlicet a sheet of postage stamps...No other hiccups with the theme but it was a slow go for a Wednesday...I’ve been a little spaced-out this week, as if on MARS, FOR INSTANCE. But it's been a good trip. I remember the last thing I said while boarding the Space-X shuttle was IN I GO! That was one of the few times I have EATEN LSD. I can still recall walking ALF on an alien, distant shore...Here’s a twofer Wednesday, same titles, different songs: ‘Mr. Spaceman.”
https://youtu.be/vldv3rpAGoA
https://youtu.be/cjF2zase6mM
Down To Earth,
Bru
3
@brutus a 'PERFORATION' is literally a hole or a slit. The 'perforations' (plural) that are used to control tearing are so called, because they are a sequence of closely spaced holes.
Mike,
"Looking deeper into the conundrum, I now get it. Videlicet a sheet of postage stamps..."
Tamer then saner for SAFER cost me 50 seconds and the gold. My life is forfeit opined Tom, ominously.
Thanks Ned
3
@dk
I had exactly the same progression...
Nice and chewy for me at least. Plus a theme that actually aided the solving - the best sort to my mind. Could have with fewer brand names, but that’s mostly because they’re not in the shops round here. Globalisation hasn’t won out yet.
3
@Alan Hunter
I only see OXI CLEAN and KEDS. The latter is long-time brand that, it seems to me, should have arrived in the UK by now, and a quick internet search shows that you can order their shoes online at a site called Zalando (unfamiliar to me here in the US) and of course, Amazon.
As for OXI CLEAN, obviously you can buy it online on either side of the pond, but I don't know if it's available in stores in the UK. But they do have an English bloke named Anthony Sullivan hawking it here in the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQsiyWOW2Gw
Devon-born Mr. Sullivan is now based in the US, so I guess globaliZation has indeed reached OXI CLEAN, too.
@Steve L I had O_ICLEAN, and for the life of me couldn't think of the missing consonant, and didn't know what Greek letter precedes omicron. Eventually I caved and Googled the Greek Alphabet, found 'XI', and felt like a complete idiot that I hadn't guessed the 'X' for the stain remover. DOH!
It was my last square in the puzzle, so I also could have just entered consonants into it until the software decided I was done.
I chuckled at the randomness of MARS FOR INSTANCE, and when I finally got it, I was selfishly glad for it, because its randomness made it tough to suss out, which deepened the puzzle's bite, and I live for bite (if it's fair, and it was).
Any puzzle that makes me buckle (down) and chuckle (aloud) gets a thumbs up from me. Thanks, Ned!
8
Whew! As someone on here likes to say, I completed this puzzle but I didn’t solve it! I needed hints four or five times!
Those folks upset about yesterday’s TEA, this puzzle was for you. No idea about Mortimer SNERD or Rowdy YATES. I have a small remembrance of Donny OSMOND but everyone was into the Jackson 5/Jacksons. I grew up on reruns of the Jackson 5 cartoons (gotta love the groovy opening: https://youtu.be/z3GzthY1s-4)! No one I knew liked the Osmonds and viewed them as Jackson wannabes.
Do y’all think of KEDS any longer? I remember wanting them as a kid but no one wears them now (are the defunct?). Maybe the clue should read *former Converse competitor.
Overall, ok. Of course 56A is ARMS. Looking forward to @Deb Amlen ‘s comments on that. She can make a mistake and still be MY IDOL!
3
@Pani Korunova
KEDS are not defunct, but they've moved out of the serious sneaker category and mostly make casual sneakers for women and kids. Converse makes similar shoes (that is to say, that can be had for less than $50; in some cases, considerably less).
As for the OSMONDs and Jacksons, Donny and his brothers were on the scene as early as 1963, acquiring their early fame on the Andy Williams Show. The Jackson 5 had recording success a bit earlier, 1969 compared to 1970 for the Osmonds, but I doubt the Osmonds existed to copy the Jacksons. I wouldn't be surprised if the people you hung with never watched Andy Williams (more of an older audience), but the Osmonds were out there first.
Personally, I liked Marie the best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUkaC7-UTx0
@Steve L
I just bought a pair of Keds this summer.
@Bess @Steve L
Boy it looks like I was off the mark about keds. They certainly were (are?) direct competitors of Converse. I haven’t seen them in a few decades but maybe I picked stores that didn’t sell them.
For a person -- like me -- who struggles with pop culture clues, it was frustrating to encounter the crossings of ZAHN and NEYO; of YATES and LEONA; and of THEOC and NEYO. I sighed and looked them up to get my gold star, but grumpily. If names rather than words are to be included in what I stubbornly prefer to think of as crossWORD puzzles, I wish they wouldn't be crossed with each other.
17
@Katherine Me too!
1
@Katherine
Hmm. Is a name not a word?
2
Katherine,
I sympathize, but...
THEOC was just in the puzzle three weeks ago, and Paula ZAHN should be gettable (IMO) with ZAH_.
I did not know the Avatar theme singer's first name (Hi, Mom?) or the Rawhide lead character's last name (Hi, Kids?) either, but what else but an E would have worked at the crossing?
It's only Wednesday, but it is supposed to be a puzzle.
3
56a is ARMS, not GUNS
4
Loved this puzzle! When I caught on about halfway through I felt that jolt of admiration I mainly feel on certain Thursdays (actually I feel admiration every day for constructors but the jolt is rarer than rare). Congrats on 25, Ned!
2
I hated this themed puzzle with a white hot loathing I customarily reserve for the New York Yankees, raisins, Connecticut, and telephone scams. Aargh.
21
@Laurie oooh must be 9/11 ... I have always loved that my little corner of Connecticut looks so much like Vermont. Warms my heart.
1
I caught on to the theme with the first one, noticed the HERON, but it still took a while to get the whole answer. I liked that the circled letters weren't all nouns, making for some nice variation in the theme answers. MARS FOR INSTANCE made me laugh.
No singer has made me react as described by Deb, but I was fond of Bing Crosby.
4
LETTER BOXED
H-T(6), T-L(8)
3
@Mari
I have M-L(6),L-L(9). Somewhat grim.
@Mari
I have been shut out the last two days, so feeling good about today.
I found your solution first and then a 13. H-P(4) P-N(9)
1
@Mari
I went rather long today.
M-C(9), C-T(8), and the even longer U-M(9), M-C(9).
Congratulations on the 13, C-Z!
2
Am I the first one to post about the Bee? Only 25 words today. One informal word, one archaic adjective that sounds like something a Yorkshireman would say, one bird species, 3 exclamations to express excitement, one exclamation to express relief. 2 pangram that are the reverse of each other.
1 E4
1H4, 1H8
2M4
1N4, 1N5, 1N6
2T4, 2T5, 1T6, 1T8
8W4, 1W5, 2W6
10
SPELLING BEE
W E H M N O T
Words: 25, Points: 89, Pangrams: 2
E x 1
H x 2
M x 2
N x 3
T x 6
W x 11
4L x 15
5L x 4
6L x 4
8L x 2
4 5 6 8 Tot
E 1 - - - 1
H 1 - - 1 2
M 2 - - - 2
N 1 1 1 - 3
T 2 2 1 1 6
W 8 1 2 - 11
Tot 15 4 4 2 25
48
@Mari With "W" as the center letter, options are limited. 4 exclamation-words. An animal sound. 2 panagrams that are anagrams of each other. A unit of force named after a great man, a reptile and a bird and 2 dialect words (one from 'uneducated speech' according to the dictionary). 2 words that might be more at home in Shakespearian times. and 1 very dear to Trump's heart.
7
@Mari you posted while I was composing.
2
@Mari
Was N5 the "uneducated speech" word?
1
Alternative clue for 56 Across: What Venus de Milo is missing.
10
@vaer,
A much better clue IMO
5
@vaer
Or *Hemingway’s Farewell to _______. That might be a bit too easy for Wednesday. How about
*A good length to view creepy crawlers, for some
4
Deb, fun puzzle. Loved your ode to terriers. My Airedale terrier is named "Asta" and I love seeing her name in the puzzle every now and then. She doesn't seem to mind sharing the four letter dog answer with "Toto".
6
ABE before LEE, which led to some trouble with the SW corner ... eventually it got straightened out.
GODOT, GOOD FATS, DOODLES and ODD MAN isn’t a coincidence but I have no clue what the hidden message is.
A few uncertainties but overall a nice mid-week puzzle for “hump-day.”
Salut
I guess it helps to be from Minnesota if you think anybody would carve a likeness of Abraham Lincoln on a mountain in Georgia.
18
Other than accidentally opening the puzzle and letting 2 minutes go by, this didn't give me too much trouble. I thought the cluing was pretty straightforward, and I discovered I knew most of the names involved, and when I didn't, the crosses helped out. Liked the theme; but it didn't really assist my solve. Ended up 30ish seconds over my average (including the early wasted time).
I had ARMS for "Provides pieces for" and didn't realize that I must have changed it due to crosses until I read Deb's column and found out it ends up as GUNS!
1
@kilaueabart
I did exactly the same, although I didn't notice it in Deb's column. I only realized it from your post
@kilaueabart
The column is wrong. The answer is ARMS.
13
@vaer
Aha. Thanks.
1
@Deb I don’t see the link for the extra hint. I can’t connrct ARISE to Mars, PASS to spa, or PRO to the last themed entry.
@Kevin Davis
Mars (and other planets) ARISE (come up in (from) this world) in the night sky;
To throw in the towel is to quit (PASS on continuing) classically during a prize fight;
And a PRO is often an ace in their field.
1
@JayTee
I interpret it differently.
PASS is *inside* SPA ACCESSORY
"throw" is literally in "the towel"
ARISE is *inside* MARS FOR INSTANCE
"comes up" is inside "the world"
And so on, just like ADDER inside CATTLE FODDER gives you a "snake in the grass".
4
Deb,
The difference between a guy who loves his tools and a normal person: not only are my screwdrivers clean enough to mix drinks with but my first thought was, "I hope they dried them quickly because the acidic juice would encourage rust." Honest.
23
Some clever clues today, but some I just didn’t get. Maybe I should read this column for an explanation. At least it’s done.
@Kevin Davis ok, now I get it from these comments. I didn’t even notice the circled letters when doing the puzzle. Maybe my contact lenses need cleaning.
1
and Elke
This puzzle had a little bit of Thursday trickery to it, but a real PRO should not give it a PASS, but get A RISE out of it. And maybe see the HERON make a snack of the ADDER in the grass. (Would that be sorta an "avian BLT"?).
Had to work at SPAACCESSORY- with GSTAAD * right there,could not relate to SPAAC. But worked it out in the end.
With HARD DRINKS in the puzzle and that flock of cedar waxwings picture, I am reminded of when we lived in the NorthEast. In the fall, when berries ,like cotoneaster, were ripening and fermenting, it was great fun to watch flocks of these birds, with their jaunty black hats,descend upon a bush and devour the berries. After some time one could see them, slightly schicker (inebriated). They also would PASS berries to each other. Like a game.
Thinking of MacKnight.
This SPRY WOW (wrinkly old woman) considered Paul Anka as MY IDOL.
Now for some R AND R.
*PS. Bring money- used to be a fancy/tony place for movie stars and such.
5
Ned, if they offer to make Billy Buck into an Audible Only audio book see if you can arrange for the graphic artists to NOT have the yellow "Audible Only" banner obscure either your name or your book's title. Like it does on many other books/authors. SCOPE it out for yourself, ;)
Not one of the better Wednesday puzzles. Some of the clues answers seemed forced. FSTOP two days in a row as an answer...that’s rare.
19
Tricky for midweek, just the way I like it. Nicely done. Thanks!
1
@Deb
The link to the other theme answers doesn't seem to be present in your column. (@11:45p EDT).
4
This Wednesday puzzle seemed like a Thursday with the difficulty of a Friday. Then again, I've been drniking.
32
@rsnyc5223 The drnik will get ya every time. ;)
4
@rsnyc5223
Perhaps a SCREWDRIVER?
2
I’m 55 and female. I didn’t care much about Donny Osmond back in the day, and care even less now.
34
@Louise Cavanaugh Wild. Has he done something recently? Was it the white washing of pop music you didn’t like? Or is he just too bland to care for, but enough to comment about?
1
Oh, this in reference to Deb’s column. I get in now.
@Louise Cavanaugh Donny Osmond, not so much. David Cassidy was MY kiss-the-poster-goodnight IDOL.
2
Very rough for a weds, need to be a better puzzler than me to get some of the stretchy clues!
1
An early English language lesson for me from my peers: If your nose runs and your feet SMELL, then you're built upside down.
So I've always remembered that feet can run or stink, but SMELL... not so much.
12
I think 56A needs to be ARMS
22
@Jenny Agreed, fits with MONO and GUNS doesn't seem right, anyways.
1
@Jenny @Deb - agreed. I am guessing that Deb had 'Guns' in that spot, and forgot to change it in the column even though she had to change it in the puzzle to finish it.
2
@Jenny I agree - GUNS simply does not work. ARMS works.
Interesting theme once I figured out what was going on. It feels a little stretchy to me, but is indeed creative.
I had trouble with GSTAAD. Guess I don't spend enough time at upscale Swiss ski resorts. I'll add that to my to-do list. Didn't know the architect, either, so that was a Natick for me. If only INIGO had been clued as "Montoya who vows to avenge his father."
I got Naticked by LEONA/YATES also.
Is enjoyed "Head Stone?" MICK.
12
@Stephanie
Once upon a time, there was a fine restaurant in London's Covent Garden called Inigo Jones.
See: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/restaurants/3337510/Are-you-ready-to-order.html
@Stephanie
INIGO twice appeared in the puzzle in August, four days apart. Once clued to the Princess Bride and once as the architect. At least one of those days there were quite a few comments about one v. the other. Princess Bride INIGO has appeared three times in the puzzle. I agree we need to see him more.
1
@2Woofs
As you entered did you say, "In I go".
1
I enjoyed that theme. Left the theme answers blank first (and second and third) go-round, but when I had enough of the circles filled to figure out what was going on, it helped me finish the puzzle.
Deb, I"m over fifty but no sighing or squealing here. I only had eyes for Robby Benson.
7
@FrankieHeck I saw him on Broadway in Pirates of Prnzance with Treat Williams in high school.
2
@Kevin Davis
Oh my gosh, my high school class took a trip to NYC to see Pirates of Penzance *right after* he was in the show. My poor heart.
@Kevin Davis
Have to correct that: I was in junior high, not high school. I still have the personalized t-shirt I had made at the World Trade Center during that trip.
56A is ARMS.
18
Mostly the puzzle was good. The theme was a bit of a head scratcher. Solved it without fully understanding. Only knew the the circled letters formed the X of X in Y (although I didn't quite catch the X in Y pattern). In the end, that really didn't help me solve it.
But, the entries were interesting. The theme entries seem a little forced - who says any of those things other than PERFORATION? But that's ok, because these were the GOOD FATS.
I liked the WIRE HAIRED. OXI CLEAN (Will, are you charging the sponsors linage rates?), ODD MAN.
TIL: GSTAAD,
And speaking of OSMOND, I wish ROPER could have been clued as Furley's predecessor or something like that.
Third INIGO this year so far. How many more before the year ends?
6
@Wen I wonder about the occasional product placement as well. But products sold on late night TV ads are kitschy enough to tickle my trivia bone. (Connected to the knee bone, FWIW)
1
After a PR on Tuesday, a crushingly slow Wednesday thanks to GSTAAD.
2
I reached a milestone with this puzzle, being the 3600th consecutive puzzle I've done since I began my daily regimen of solving the NY Times puzzles in 2009. That doesn't constitute a streak in the official sense, since I've had a couple of interruptions due to external circumstances, and a check or two along the way. Besides which, the Times didn't start tracking streaks until more recently.
I suspect there are veterans with much longer histories than mine. But for me, I thought that was a mark worth noting.
77
@Alan J, congratulations on reaching that milestone! You set a high bar.
1
@Alan J
Congratulations, Alan! For most of us that’s just “Pie in the sky?” / FLYING L(EM)ON CR(U)ST. That’s an EMU sending its congratulations as well.
6
@Alan J
Congratulations, Alan! For most of us that’s just “Pie in the sky?” / FLYING L(EM)ON C(U)RD. That’s an EMU sending its congratulations as well.
3
Mick may be the guy in the spotlight but musically, the real Head Stone is Charlie.
2
I wanted it to be "Sly"
17
@Bruvver
My first thought was "Sharon". But that's a bit blue for the Gray Lady...
1
@Steve Faiella
In retrospect, that came out all wrong. Nothing against Ms. Stone, it was just an odd juxtaposition in my addled (pre coffee) brain. 😀
Finished it and I don't have any idea what the theme was
3
@nthdegree
Deb explains it, so check her out. I think it’s always useful to look closely at quirks in the clues. In this case, it’s always something “in the” something else. Circled letters are “in the” longer answer. A bird, HERON, is in the hand, HIRED PERSON.
clever. Theme really helped here. I would get the circled letters first (clued by the first word) and then then long theme (clued by the second word. An ALPHA of a puzzle!
3
Hi Deb!
I'm not trying to sound snarky, but I think we needed the copy editors tonight. BEALE is the name of the street. The answer to 56A is ARMS, not GUNS. And the link to the third theme example isn't there, at least not on my screen.
Sorry about that.
I visited BEALE Street in 1979, when it was completely dead except for Schwab's (I think that was the name of it) store. Then I was back a few years ago, and it had completely rejuvenated into a very lively spot. It was good to see.
This will probably be my last post for a while, as I'm taking off on that big road trip tomorrow. I'll try to keep up with the puzzles, and may drop in if I get a chance, but I'm not counting on having good wifi along the way. Have fun while I'm gone! See you in October.
18
@Liz B
Have fun! Be safe! Or whatever works for you between the two. I'll do what I can to make sure the town's still here when you get back.
4
@Liz B
yes and yes to ARMS and no link and I am well over 50 which is perhaps why Donny Osmond never came even close to rocking my boat. On the other hand, the answer to "Head Stone" could never possibly be anyone other than Mick! Saw him live with the Stones at Winterland in San Francisco in 1970 and have never seen anyone with as much charisma and cool as him live on stage since.
Even after I went back after the theme was explained in the column and looked at the answers some of them still didn't make much sense to me (which is often the case). I didn't find them all particularly clever - certainly not PRO and PERFORATION which still was pretty obscure after the PRO part. Sometimes I feel like I can hear the answers to some of the clues and the theme manipulations actually creaking in pain from being stretched to fit into the unnatural shapes they are being asked to fill!
4
@Liz B
Safe travels!
56A is...what? i can't get GUNS to work. :(
1
@peanut_puzzler
Think body part.
1
ARMS.
2
@peanut_puzzler
Arms