There is more on "who really controls the EU"online, some of our Brit friends have found,and it stated that behind the Parliament, are the real controllers of the EU,and the "fronts"are not the ones Brexiters should be confronting.Many of our European friends are not so fooled. I do not believe Europeans have a chance,until they find and confront the real rulers of the EU.--And despite their difficulty in leaving the EU, in the future,younger Brits might not be so peaceful about leaving the EU, if they still want to,they could get nastier in how they do it There were other countries where the young folk got tired of "trying to get along with their controlling govt. and be good little citizens."---want me to quote that part of Russia who revolted?who tried to dump Russia,who no longer wanted to be part of Russia's govt.?The NYT is only talking about Brexit LEADER. --not the PEOPLE who want Brexit. THEY won't be squashed so easily.
@Tara Connor .... And you talk only of "Brexit" as if it were some single monolithic entity when, in reality, it was never defined and there may be as many "Brexits" as people who voted for "it". Is it any wonder that nobody can now agree on what "it" is?
1
HOW does a leader, a Prime Minister, think he has the authority to remove Britain from the EU without a vote from the Parliament? That move is SO Trumpian. Bending the rules seems to be the modus operandi of conservatives everywhere. Throwing out all protocol and abandoning good faith, these neo-ararchists care not for democracy, rule of law or the collateral damage they inflict on their countries so long as they maintain power. Destruction of the government is their libertarian goal. Electing and enabling sociopaths is expedient. Destruction is EASY, but finding pragmatic solutions is hard. And as Trump has shown, he only wants what is easy for himself personally.
If only conservatives in the U.S. Senate had the strength of character of their British counterparts who stood up to a deranged bully and crossed over to pass legislation to block their leader's worst impulses.
4
This is what it looks like when fanatics are put in charge of countries. Back in the 1930s, this is what happened to Germany, Italy and Japan and the Allied Powers headed by the U.S. and Britain fought a bloody war to stop them.
Now the shoe is on the other foot isn't it?
2
Lovely bit about Rees-Mogg arrogance and posture. Look particularly at the graphics showing the market going down and points of degradation - going down.
“Body language speaks volumes. I’d spent nearly 3 hours watching him in a prone position & it got too much! Plus - how dare he label those of us trying to stop No Deal “undemocratic.” His Government has no mandate for this vicious Brexit - and is trying to bypass parliament.”
*Commons leader infuriates lawmakers with his body language* https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/09/04/britain-unravels-house-commons-leader-infuriates-lawmakers-with-his-body-language/
1
Lousy governance but really, really good theater.
Maybe somehow this will cross over the water and rub off on the republicans in this country
2
Brexit is an English project.
If there is a no deal Brexit the UK union won't survive.
Perversely the unspoken intention of English nationalists to destabilize the EU is, by way of unintended consequence, destroying the UK union.
The country is really looking for a statesman who will revoke Article 50. Which is not Mr Johnson. Jo Swinson?
The sooner this is put in the hands of the people, the better.
Conservatives have had over three years to make good on the hype and false promises of the original Brexit proposition. They failed miserably. They couldn’t even start starting - a sure sign of the vast disconnect between the hype and stark reality. As the clock wound down, chaotic, haphazard planning gave way to desperate promises that if people just wait, May and her people would pull a magic rabbit out of the EU hat. That never happened either.
Plans and promises eventually gave way to naked threat. Rather than admitting defeat, and the impossibility of a positive outcome, May decided to force the nation over a cliff: collective suicide. She ultimately couldn’t deliver this - so Conservatives found the ultimate reckless anarchist who would: Johnson.
Brexit CANNOT succeed, because it was false and faulty from day one. A deluded 19th century view of Britannia can’t be matched to how Europe or the U.K. work today. It’s easily more than two years past time to end the insanity.
Only the people can end this disaster!
9
Regarding Republican congresspeople or senators changing party or standing up against the worst of present-day Republican positions, the graphics on this page express the difficulty most succinctly:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11377593/Graphic-UK-v-US-election-spending.html
It costs so much to get elected and to stay elected in the USA that our legislators are in great part employees of the biggest donors.
6
As James Mattis said on Morning Joe today: history may not be perfect, but that's the only guide we have
https://www.amazon.com/Call-Sign-Chaos-Learning-Lead/dp/0812996836/ref=sr_1_1?crid=75F25J9MT28J&keywords=james+mattis&qid=1567616352&s=books&sprefix=james+mattis%2Cstripbooks%2C123&sr=1-1
Absence of history learning in all of educational institution will be our predictable downfall.
2
The only "exit" may be Boris's. Does he think he will remain PM after the election?
3
At least the House Commons (British Parliament) is doing its job and standing up to their wannabe dictator and Deomcracy destroyer.
Sadly here in the US our two party system with Republicans being useless and Democrats being leaderless and spineless, our dictator wannabe and destroyer is inflicting widespread damage on our Democracy and destabilizing the world.
I hope the British are able to save their Democracy - I am not optimistic for saving ours in the US!
2
It’s always amazed (and secretly delighted) me that Great Britain, that bastion of good manners and decorum, would have a body like Parliament, whose members scream, heckle, jeer, pound fists and in general behave like rowdies. I’m glad to see that feistiness in play against Boris Johnson, who believes that steamrollering his country out of the European Union is a good idea. Personally, I think Brexit is a lousy idea under any circumstances.
Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see this bully Boris ousted by a vote of no confidence. Maybe that would teach him that no man is an island.
4
The problem is that the conservatives in Great Britain really wan to the return to the English power of Queen Elizabeth, the first Queen Elizabeth. Never going to happen. Without the EU, England is at best Second World Country economy It's politicians need to remember that it took it's long gone colonies to make it prosperous and a world power. That ship sailed at the end of WWII. They also seem to ignore that it was the creation of the EU that ended the hundreds of years old 10 to 20 year cycle of wars in Europe.
3
What they really need us a second referendum on Brexit. Johnson’s opponents should unite behind that as their strategy.
1
This nightmare is best summed up by The Guardian columnist Rafael Behr, who said .......
"Johnson’s actions are best explained by his congenital aversion to things that are hard. He wants a deal but not the effort of getting a deal."
Now, who does that remind you of ?
73
@Anthony Taylor
This is a generation of elites who have an aversion to hard work,. Thinking is to much for them, yacking is there calling about nothing.
1
Did the Brits really believe that Boris Johnson was going to be able to pull a "rabbit" out of his political hat and make Brexit into something wonderful? This man is a Trump clone and he will destroy Britain the way Trump is destroying the United States. I am surprised he doesn't walk around with a MBGA (Make Britain Great Again) hat on his head.
3
It would appear that Boris Johnson has lost control of the political process, He has unwittingly handed this power to Jeremy Corbyn, who will now insist on a Brexit delay until after new elections have been conducted. It looks like Corbyn also has functional control of the timing of this election, as a two-thirds majority is required, and he will not vote for an election unless he thinks Boris and his ilk can be defeated.
Boris Johnson is now exposed as a fool. His destructive and short-sighted political maneuvering could well cripple the Tories' electoral prospects for a generation.
23
@James
Don't be so hard on Boris. He is having about the same amount of success navigating Brexit as anyone else so far.
The simple fact is that the Brexit vote was close, and has since evolved into a deadlock which cannot be solved (negotiated) by anyone. Anti-Brexiters are trying to stall the process until they get a second bite at the apple via another referendum vote.
3
@Tim Clark Of course they are. And they are right to do so. The people started this, let them finish it: Either end the delays and go through with a hard Brexit, or call the whole thing off.
2
@James
I hope Corbin becomes prime minister, even if his arrival there will have been by a torturous route. Equally fervently, I hope that Bernie Sanders becomes president here in the U.S. Both nations have suffered under decades of austerity and trickle down, and both desperately need a tilt towards the left.
2
The UK voted for Freedom just like we did in 1776. The globalists in the UK's government is trying to prevent the carrying out of the will of the people.
3
@P McGrath It wasn't 'the will of the people', it was the will of one third of the possible electorate. The result was very close. The country is strongly divided and that is reflected in Parliament. It's got nothing to do with 'globalists', whoever they may be. Here in the UK you don't hear these mad conspiracy theories that are bread and butter in the US.
10
@P McGrath
It's not freedom, Brexit is the lack of freedom.
The lack of freedom to trade, the lack of freedom to live, work and go to school in a larger area.
6
There is a lot of evidence the Brexit movement was strengthened by Russia on social media. People are loathe to change their minds once set. Social media manipulation has gotten the UK into a strange place just just the US.
4
Salvini out in Italy as well - a bad day for liars and neo fascists.
24
...and a good day for good people everywhere.
2
A retribution for his treacheries with Theresa may and his flow of lies. Who is going to explain it to Trump ?
4
The lethal “Trump Virus”, with its symptomatic chaos, has now clearly spread to the U.K.
10
Like the Washington Post's running tabulation of Trump's lies( 12,000 and counting! ), are any British papers keeping track of Boastful Boris's falsehoods?
1
@John Grillo
Of course, Trump “lies”, but Biden has “gaffes” and Hilary “miss-speaks”!
2
Well it seems that British conservatives are less obsequious to their leader than American conservatives. Kudos. Maybe your American counterparts will take a lesson in civics here.
1521
@Norman The brits don't have millions of guns with which to threaten anyone who challenges the leader.
Americans wouldn't be game .
25
@Norman
Nah, they are bought and sold and terrified. Our Republican Party has already died; the corpse doesn't admit it and it wields zombie power through Murdoch and other billionaires. Maybe you just don't have enough billionaires for total corruption?
94
@Norman British MPs are generally more intelligent and knowledgeable of international politics than US Congressmen/women.
117
Threats and bluster. Just like his US counterpart.
9
Britain must remain in EU to counter right wing nationalistic governments to call the shots. The world is in a very precarious position. We only have a small window of few years to reverse damaging policies of ultra right wing nationalistic governments, to save the future from potential irreversible changes that may destroy humanity as we know it.
889
Au contraire. English are the cause and origin of all you rightly decry. They maintain a captive terrorist organisation, they will arm anyone and fight any war anywhere. Look at the list of national horror stories they leave behind. That is why they must leave the EU.
9
@Rahman Yes and the fact of the matter is that the only way our species will continue to exist long term is if the amount of cooperation rather than competition among nations increases dramatically. We can solve the global problems of climate change, starvation, military conflict, etc. with shared goals and methods but will fail if pitted against each other.
64
@Andrew salmon - They're not fuzzy bunnies, but they are one of the few countries that could counter rising nationalism in the EU. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
57
Stop me if you've heard this one...hold a second referendum on Brexit. People have a far greater understanding now of what Brexit entails. My guess is that this time around 'remain' wins. Then, with derby in hand, humbly apply to the EU to ignore this whole episode and let bygones be bygones.
Boris would have to resign, which is a side benefit of all this.
This way the crisis of Brexit would be over...to be replaced by the crisis brought on by angry Brexiteers. But that crisis is occurring anyway.
another guess: the affable John Bercow becomes pm. He's played both sides of the fence, which in this case would be a good thing. And he doesn't come off as self serving. (I may be wrong about this last.)
348
@jscott The UK does not have to beg the EU to ignore this whole episode; they just have to withdraw their withdrawal.
27
@jscott
And if the majority votes yes to Brexit, the Brits will be back to exactly the same problem as they have today: A parliament which cannot agree on what sort of Brexit they want.
No a referendum must somehow include what sort of Brexit voters want. Otherwise Britain risk never getting out of deadlock.
5
@jscott
Stop me if you've heard this one...hold a second election for 2016. People have a far greater understanding now of what electing Trump entails.
Sounds ridiculous?
35
Would it really be so horrible for the EU to grant another extension? All this drama regarding the deadline is like a bad reality TV show. Clearly there isn't unity among Brexiters, and there's growing resolve among Remainers. Meanwhile, the German economy teeters. Beyond the bluster it seems the one thing there is majority opinion about -- among politicians of the UK and on the Continent -- is that a crash out would be too risky.
@Duncan
They've had three years. If they keep needing extensions now, it looks like Brexit can't be done. The sooner this madness ends, the better. But even if the UK remains in the EU, which I hope it does, there's been significant damage already.
2
@Laura
"The sooner this madness ends, the better."
Not if keeping to the deadline might mean a no-deal Brexit. I say wait. It's taken them so much time because there is no one vision of Brexit supported by a majority of Parliament, (or, most likely, among the Leave voters themselves.).
My firm does a lot of business in the UK and on the Continent. We basically put any future UK plans on hold in 2016. Given how uncertain the economy is looking right now we'd be happy to keep doing our business in the UK, but keep expansion/contraction plans on hold.
Look at how events are unfolding:
Britain is in turmoil (chaos, if ypu will) because of a Brexit vote that, if it were repeated today, would probably turn out opposite to what it turned out the first time.
The E.U. is in turmoil as a result, and is paralyzed by chaos relating to Brexit.
The U.S. is in chaos because we elected a psychopathic lunatic in 2016, and that madman is mercurial, irrational, vicious and without any moral, ethical or intellectual mooring. As a result, we have no coherent foreign policy other than kowtowing to Russia, threatening to abandon NATO, endless trade wars and withdrawing from the world.
What is the common thread? The Brexit vote and the 2016 U.S. election were manipulated by Cambridge Analyttica (which closed its doors to prevent public scrutiny), which in turn worked hand in glove with Putin.
Who has the most to gain from chaos in the Western world? Russia. With the entire apparatus of the Western countries effectively paralyzed by chaos stage-managed by Putin and Cambridge Analytica, Russia and its proxies are basically free to do what they want, where they want.
Does that make sense?
5
Forgive me, but it's difficult for a U.S. citizen to make any sense out of British politics. Sounds like holding an election is some type of punishment.
1
Nationalism can be destructive. UK is seeing it with all its ugly consequences. Brexit without trade deals is a catastrophe that is both self-inflicted and unnecessary. But UK needs a leader, someone who is respected on both sides of the aisle.
Prince Harry. If the Queen anoints him her successor, he could rally the whole of England as no one else could. His future and the future of his fledgling family might make him so appealing that his message could make the disagreements seem unimportant.
1
I was surprised and dismayed last week when Queen Elizabeth gave the PM the go ahead to suspend Parliament. I thought for sure she had gone senile.
But now I think she was cracker smart by letting Johnson go down his perilous path, to his own demise, thus shortening the tenure of a PM she did not want in the first place.
3
One supposes that a house divided is better than a house destroyed, clearly not supported by Mr. Johnson.
On the other hand, Boris has fully engaged (enraged?) the people in the political process!
2
Good job, the Boris needs to be taken down. Now there is the Don to deal with.
2
There was no strong opposition voice on the left against Brexit. Certainly not by Jeremy Corbin. Corbin was secretly for Brexit because he wanted to weaken England so that socialist could take over. With Britain needs now is a strong moderate voice for reasonable solution and a new referendum.
The far left and far right as in America are more bent on unreasonable issues than conducting sane economic solutions. As in America the far right are only winners because the far left present so many ridiculous demands from a socialistic base it pushes everything to the right. And the right have proven time and time again they do not know how to govern.
1
So what happens in a democracy when the "people" make a serious blunder--in this case voting for Brexit in the first place? That's when leadership should kick in. Why aren't the Remainers conducting an intense political campaign designed to sway people into coming around to remain--and throwing out of office Brexiteers? It's not as if the Brexit campaign wasn't riddled with false claims. Brexit poses an existential crisis to the UK (Scotland? Northern Ireland?), and parliamentary gamesmanship alone will not convince the people of that fact.
1
American "lawmakers" are now officially inferior to their British counterparts.
4
Brexit is an impossible conundrum because to leave the EU and become the 'sovereign nation' Brexiteers want entails securing one's borders. That must mean a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland but everyone pretends that won't be needed. Its unreal! With Johnson's plan to crash out Britain will have an unguarded open border there November 1. Goods and people will presumably flow unobstructed inside the island of Ireland in total disregard of any tariffs or regs - a total black market. There will be an immediate but understaffed hard border in the Irish Sea as they scramble to check IDs and goods getting on planes and ferries to the mainland. No-one in Ireland or Northern Ireland will be happy. Risk of sectarian terrorism again. How many years has the UK government had to figure this out and failed?? Total disaster.
4
Conservatism is dead; a failed ideology overtaken by facts. Instead of adjusting policy to reality, former conservatives have embraced nationalism and in some cases outright fascism to cling to power. If this doesn't end, as it has historically, in violence, it will be because some people in positions of power finally put country over party. I just wish we had some of them here.
7
In any election I forecast massive gains for the Liberal Democrats. Boris Johnson will suffer the fate experienced by Theresa May in her own snap general election.
3
Tony Blair has stated his support for a new referendum.
3
yep, and he’s the one who wants everyone to be chipped too.
According to British media this morning, Labour will not vote for a snap election and neither will the Liberal-Democrats, SNP and other smaller parties. In the meantime, the Ulster unionists keep dreaming about "Mother" England and kicking the Catholics out.
It seems the only "fly in ointment" right now are the Tory peers in the House of Lords who have tabled numerous bills in order to take up time and attempt to block the "No Deal" Brexit bill that will be passed by the Commons. In past debacales, Lords has had its powers reduced almost every time it tries to override a Commons vote. Perhaps it is time for the U.K. to go to a unicarmeral Pariament and let the Lords pass into history.
1
If there is to be an election ( as seems likely ) there will be two parties campaigning on effectively the same ticket i.e. the Tory Party and Nigel Farage's Brexit Party. The Brexit Party fully embraces a No Deal Brexit whereas the Tory Party is wiling to compromise if the ' backstop ' is removed. The Brexit Party intends to field a full list of over 600 candidates. Surely these two parties will be fighting each other for votes in any election with resultant vote splitting. The Tory Party could suffer the most.
Why not another referendum to the people? I don’t understand why this hasn’t been resurrected. Things have changed and the people are better informed regarding potential consequences. My bet is they would call it off.
11
@Tom B
The Remainers have carried on a temper tantrum over the last vote for three years. If the winners agree to re-vote just to assuage the noisy losers, making noise and refusing to accept the outcome of national votes will become standard practice for certain kinds of politicians.
2
@John Gallant
It was an advisory referendum, i.e. non binding.
Not the same as a vote that is legally binding.
Even Mr. Brexit, Nigel Farage, accepts that, which is why he is saying: “I would now wish to see constitutional change to make referendums binding”.
Here's an interesting article:
https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/
Tom B ...what you say is like the U.S. Second Amendment. We could just insert the word “Flintlocks” and remove the word “Arms” piece of cake!
Perhaps if there is a no deal Brexit and Britain take the unprecedented hit to its economy casting millions upon millions into dire poverty the Tory's will be blamed (as they should be) and never win another election til the end of time which may be sooner than anyone really wants.
Of course the same could and should be said of the GOP in the US. You crash it you never get back in power, but voters never seem to remember what just happened to them, only the last promise that never gets fulfilled. We seem to be in a continual loop of hoping this time they're not really lying to us.
12
@Martino
Spoiler, millions have already been cast into dire poverty since 2007 when the EU was created.
some people finally woke up... better late than never...
8
Brexit is a dismal failure. But of course it is. Those people that got caught up in the yes vote dreaming of a bygone era in which the British Empire ruled the world have finally realized how utterly ridiculous that idea is.
17
Democracy has left the UK. Jeremy Corbyn has hijacked the parliament and now wants to override the people's vote.
Republicans in Congress take note: this is how democracy is supposed to work.
11
This is surely the twilight of the empire. Nightfall is a few months away. 1000 years of continuous rule coming to an end. Richard III to Johnson/Corbyn. England's immediate goal is how to get enough food to feed its people, enough medicine for the sick and enough capital to develop its own industries. A new election to stroke an ego is a pitiful response to a crises. Who is advising the Queen? Is she even capable of paying attention? Is William aware of the stakes should she decide to abdicate?
The Privy Council provides the Queen with advice. The daily Red Box keeps her up to date with every cabinet meeting and foreign affairs. Member of court provide advice too. And the PM has a weekly private briefing, - the contents of which never leave the room. Past PMs have often viewed the weekly audience as almost like seeing a therapist- nothing they say will be used against them and she is the only person so well advised that is not plotting to take their job.
As to abdication you must consider the nature of Elizabeth R: she made a vow on her 21st birthday to serve the British public her entire life, whether that be long or short. She took another oath to serve for life at her coronation. Elizabeth R has kept every promise she has ever made to “her people”. She would find it not only distasteful to abdicate, she would be breaking her word. Should she become incapacitated by illness or mind Charles would serve as Regent - but she would still be Queen until the day she dies. There is no pension plan.
I genuinely dread the day she dies. Britain stands on the precipice of calamity. Should we lose her wisdom now, it is not inconceivable that the entire parliament would panic.
3
To all the people who think that holding a second referendum (that will likely favour remain) and stop the whole process of Brexit:
This will NEVER happen! The United Kingdom WILL LEAVE the EU, the only question is how and if there will be a deal or not.
If - hypothetically - Brexit is simply "cancelled" with no repercussions whatsoever and all things are going to the way they were in 2016, I demand, that my country, Germany, will also and immediately submit it's own resignation from the EU. Because what would be the donwside of it? We would negotiate a deal and when it's better than what we have now, we accept, leave and enjoy our new benefits. If it's not, we simply revoke the whole thing, futher enjoy the status quo ante and maybe try again in a few years. It would be a win-win-situation for us, but the end of the EU as we know it.
You Americans should understand this, because after all you fought a whole civil war for the exact same reasons!
3
Let's be clear there is nothing here to insert or malign or smear our POTUS in this discussion.
At least, he delivered on his campaign pledge to withdraw from JCPO, and Paris Climate. And in addition, successfully renegotiated now dead NAFTA.
It is the Brits who need to learn from our POTUS and our system.
In a democracy, why have votes and then, when you don't like the outcome - put up fierce resistance against what the voters demanded or effectively nullify the Peoples wishes.
And I thought we have Deep State.
To use a favorite word of Brits, its parliament and its members have gone bonkers.
I fully support Boris Johnson that Brexit MUST mean Brexit.
And I agree that a new election be held to determine a new prime minister who will go begging to Brussels.
If I were EU - I would expel Britain from its membership for this total contempt for democracy, rules of membership and outright incompetence.
There are comments below that say EU needs britain to contain right wing governments who trample on their own folks - come on, I say - look in the mirror.
And to put it in today's weather - this hurricane named Brexit has lingered over Europe too long, has already caused havoc.
It's time for it to get moving.
1
Let's be clear there is nothing here to insert or malign or smear our POTUS in this discussion.
At least, he delivered on his campaign pledge to withdraw from JCPO, and Paris Climate. And in addition, successfully renegotiated now dead NAFTA.
It is the Brits who need to learn from our POTUS and our system.
In a democracy, why have votes and then, when you don't like the outcome - put up fierce resistance against what the voters demanded or effectively nullify the Peoples wishes.
And I thought we have Deep State.
To use a favorite word of Brits, its parliament and its members have gone bonkers.
I fully support Boris Johnson that Brexit MUST mean Brexit.
And I agree that a new election be held to determine a new prime minister who will go begging to Brussels.
If I were EU - I would expel Britain from its membership for this total contempt for democracy, rules of membership and outright incompetence.
There are comments below that say EU needs britain to contain right wing governments who trample on their own folks - come on, I say - look in the mirror.
And to put it in today's weather - this hurricane named Brexit has lingered over Europe too long, has already caused havoc.
It's time for it to get moving.
Perhaps the analogy is less to Charles I than Lady Jane Grey. We'll find out.
1
Boris Johnson was called a "tin-pot dictator" for planning to prorogue parliament (which we now learn has been found by a Scottish court to be totally legal). Demonstrators protested outside Westminster calling for a stop to the "coup." According to the media, British democracy was teetering on the brink.
So Boris asks to go to the people and let them decide. The response? No, we can't have an election!
Makes me wonder who is truly being undemocratic. Boris, who is trying to see that the referendum be respected, or parliament, full of MPs who have lied to their constituents, reneged on their manifesto promises, switched sides, and repeatedly tried to prevent the will of the people from being respected.
2
@Dan
Is it legal in the US for an elected member to switch political parties while in office?
None of this should be legal. If you want to switch parties, quit your post and campaign for the other party. See if people still want to vote for you.
Confusing. Boris "might" ask for a new election. A super majority off members would have to approve it. How does that help us understand the situation?
What's going on in the UK is dramatic. There's an entertainer serving as PM. Parliament doesn't seem to have any rules for comity. Everyone hates Boris and the leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn. What fun!
We can hardly wait for the next episode. The sad thing is that bad or biased reporting, along with systematic deception by some of the players, led to the Brexit vote.
2
Popular democracy works best in a civil society where the "the public" are well informed and rational.
The Founding Fathers of the US did not have faith in the hoi poloi, hence the Electoral College. But the Electoral College is both skewed and partisan and therefore does not necessarily have the best interest of the country at heart. In the US, it is always personal wealth and power before party; party before country; and then there's Wall Street.
Westminster style parliamentary democracy, on the other hand, believes in "vox populi, vox dei", but the UK population is neither well informed nor rational, and as in the US, the mass has its justifiable grievances, not the least of which is the disparity in income, and opportunity to climb the social ladder.
Unfortunately, voting is an emotive issue, made more so by tabloids and the likes of Murdoch.
9
Britain should not be asking for concessions to exit the EU but for concessions to stay in the union. Liberty is the key to counter Brexit.
5
@Mike Boyajian
I didn't know Britain was a totalitarian country without liberty.
It seems that Mr. Johnson's Brexit lies have been fully exposed and acknowledged by all, and he's been held fully accountable. As bad as British politics are, at least parlament did the right thing fast and cut off a reckless, arrogant PM.
If America were smart, Trump would have been called out and dumped by congress immediately when his lawlessness and blatant subversion or our democratic institutions became so obvious at his innauguration.
19
The referendum was not democratic by any means. Voters were fed a ton of lies, none worse than Johnson's claim, emblazoned across his campaign bus, that the U.K. would save 150 million pounds PER WEEK by withdrawing from the E.U..
Is there still a Labour Party in the UK?
Why do we persist in calling this pirate nation "Great" anything? With all the hoo-hah over Brexit it's abundantly clear that the sun had set on their empire of arrogance in 1940. Past time for the sorry inhabitants of that storied realm to get into alignment with reality and stop playing their classist games of atavistic societies no longer in existence...
7
@T... Not sure where the family brain cell is today, but Great Britain ist still great! Peeling back that facade of the organization called the EU one finds many good items, many good initiatives, but there are dark corners here and there too! Maybe the EU should be addressing the issues why a great nation like GB would want to leave in the first place? If they can’t do that, a few more nations could join them in the near future. Top item number one: EU citizens do not vote directly for their EU “President”. Most ‘mericans don’t even know that and worse most Americans do not realize that a process is now going on to change the United States of America into the United Population of America and if that wouldn’t scare anyone then we’ll deserve what we’ll get!
1
The comparison to Trump is accurate. Trump lost the general election. Johnson was never elected Prime Minister at all.
8
Boris Johnson has displayed his clownish credentials, first by trying to bluster his way towards his favoured destination with a parliamentary majority of only ONE (including his DUP allies), and then in the face of a revolt by over twenty of his own Conservative MPs, told those MPs they were no longer Conservatives and could not stand again as such in any subsequent general election.These included senior figures such as the recent Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond and Sir Winston Churchill's grandson Sir Nicholas Soames, the latter having completed 36 years as a Conservative MP and only voted against his own governemnt three times in that time.
Such bullying tactics have only served to harden the resolve of those Conservatives who are opposed to leaving the EU without an agreement. Behind Prime Minister Johnson is a shadowy Rasputin-like figure called Dominic Cummins who is Johnson's 'Advisor'. He is unelected, and not even a member of the Conservative Party. He has scant regard for democracy and is a fanatical (even anarchical) right-winger.
8
Mr. Johnson has pushed president Trump off the front page of almost all newspapers.
What will president Trump now do to regain the headlines?
We await with bated breath for the next installment in this riveting drama.
9
Every time I read about Brexit, I get the image of a powerful husband abusing his wife. When the wife says, I want out of this marriage, the husband threatens economic hardship. The neighbors say, you'll be much poorer. I say if it is a bad marriage and has no real expectation of getting better, get out. A bad marriage is worse than economic hardship. If you have any sense of national identity or state patriotism, or a desire for democratic regulation of the economy, the EU government is your enemy.
1
Michael, the EU has provided Europe with peace and prosperity in continent that was devastated by World War II. In that endeavor, the EU has been a roaring success. But many people in little England (an area the size of New York State) decided that they didn’t like a couple of hundred thousand Eastern Europeans coming into their country each year.
2
Incredible to have a government of elected official push back and stand up to the “norm breaking” leader. I wonder what would happen here if both parties stood up to the POTUS. Does not seem likely but in the land of fairies and fantasies it makes for wishful thinking.
6
As a political spectator, while learning about democracy, I find Brexit a terrific show! What happens next? Read all about it in the NY Times!
3
Very interesting turn of events. It looks as if Mr. Johnson might have overplayed his hand He wanted to create one of two situations: either agree to some measly changes in the May deal, sell it with all of his Boris bluster as the greatest deal of all time ("lipstick on a pig") and then have a showdown vote in parliament with only two choices: the Boris deal or no deal. Ms. May never actually accomplished this high noon feeling since no one thought she would ever go through with no deal. Johnson, however, has spent months on making everybody believe just that. With this new legislation that takes no deal off the table, however, parliament will rob him of this high noon moment, killing his chances of ever getting a deal passed with this parliament.
So, alternatively he can now try to get a general election. The British electoral system might actually allow him to eke out a win if he manages to unite the hardcore Brexit vote while the remain side is split between Labour, the Liberal Democrats and a few other smaller parties.
The opposition seems to see through his strategy though since they now hesitate to agree to this election on Johnson's terms (he needs a 2/3 majority for that). Would be quite interesting to see the Tory rebels, Labour and the remain parties agree on a caretaker government of national unity to resolve Brexit (ideally with a second referendum) and oust Boris Johnson.
3
John Bercow, Speaker of the House (“Order! Order!”) and master of the English language and stunning put-downs of members of parliament is possibly the only member of the house to have come out of this entire debacle with an improved reputation. He has worked tirelessly to subvert any shenanigans by any party or leader during this whole nightmare. He seems to be the only one doing any research to find the most arcane and ancient rules still in effect to stop anti-democratic behaviour of over confident leaders. It’s only a shame he had to give up party affiliation to take the job.
6
I must say the government of the UK has regained my respect. I had put them in the same category as our own when they elected their trump clone Johnson. Its refreshing to see their MP have the backbone to stand up to a unbalanced leader unlike our GOP controlled Senate who just walks in lockstep with trump and massacre mitch.
9
You have to love the theater of a British parliamentary debate. Compare that method of decision-making to Mitch McConnell huddling with oligarchs in a back room to make decisions about the country while our Dear Leader furiously tweets from his bedroom after watching Sean Hannity reruns.
5
Best solution going forward: Jeremy Corbyn steps down (pretexting whatever reason he and his team come up with; the man has great personal integrity but the Telegraph/Mail/Express would have a field day against him in an election campaign), and Keir Starmer steps up for Labour.
Slam dunk win for Labour in a general election.
Oh, a new referendum as a matter of course.
1
As Johnson goes, so goes Trump.
Putin in flames and careening out of control in the cross-hairs of societies that are finally realizing they represent law and order and not chaos.
The self serving right wing politicians who ignited this near conflagration will be pursued and harassed into insignificance and marginalization, which is exactly where they came from.
6
This is a lesson for America.
The republicans who must disagree with Trump are too cowardly to step up and speak up.
We Americans do not have a full democracy at this moment.
We have an autocracy.
7
American readers who might be enjoying a touch of schadenfreude over the parliamentary turmoil presently engulfing the U.K. would do well to remember that -- in the U.K., at least -- the politicians have the ability to halt ineptitude, throw the government out, and force new elections when they so choose. Not so in the United States of America. Moscow Mitch and the rest of the Republican party can sit from here to eternity on any legislation that might threaten Donald Trump. And they will. As a result, we will be forced to endure at least another year and four months of stupidity, chaos, destruction, whim, malevolence, whining, posturing, self-pity, blame and incompetence.
The U.K., on the other hand may, after some (possibly salutary) blood-letting, be able to fight its way through to reasonable terms for either rejoining the EU or securing workable means to an exit from the EU with dignity and economic potential.
Which of our countries will suffer the least damage overall?
3
I admire the current British Parliament.
First, Johnson tried to do away with them so he could play with England unchallenged but that didn't work.
Nice try, Boris. It's a Democracy, dude.
Then, predictably, whiplash sets in and even his own party refuse to back him.
Now he's (maybe) calling for another election?
Boris' feet have suddenly gotten cold and his arrogant bravado of a month ago has disappeared like smoke.
If only the present US senate had a tenth of the fortitude of the British Parliament. Sigh.
Britain isn't ok with a hard Brexit.
If they had been, Theresa May would still be in office.
3
if the 2016 brexit vote (representing the grievances of the working class and phony appeals to nationalism) opened the gates to a trump victory, could rebel tories spark defections among the GOP? nah. wishful thinking...
1
Snap elections and plebiscites for spite on weighty issues, while racing toward an economic cliff. Well done, Conservatives.
1
There is no parliamentary discipline and shockingly too, no party discipline. This decision to leave with or without a deal is infact now enshrined in law and is already on the statute book by the same House of Commons. The constitutional flaw is not this but the referendum which ranked as a huge litmus test of public opinion but then could be ignored or swept about like a shuttlecock to suit people’s egos. There must be legislation after this sad episode, to clear up the legal status of a referendum vote. One such idea is for the answer to go into a green paper and straight to the House of Lords. In my book, a referendum vote ranks more highly than any House of Commons lobby vote, meaning the latter should not then interfere or begin interpreting what the public “meant” in the referendum. We’ve already had a massive, expensive referendum and legislation to leave but still the process is being hijacked by those with bruised egos like Hammond, Gauke and Stewart. They should rightly be expelled because they have defied the will of the people but there is no punitive mechanism left in our armoury. These highly-paid lawmakers are now narrating their own ivory tower playbooks, except they forget three years later we all still watching and waiting for Brexit. It redefines the word disgrace. It is utterly obscene. Their time is up.
It is astonishing that a policy that will result in citizens becoming poorer, less secure and causing negative impacts in key sectors of the British economy: manufacturing, academia and finance, is even considered by politicians. It’s even more amazing that a solid unwavering proportion of the population continue to express support for it.
Consider this: the proponents and funders of Brexit stand to personally benefit by betting against (shorting) the pound and British businesses, they have personally insulated themselves from the consequences, getting EU passports and moving business to EU nations, they committed criminal offences by breaching electoral law and lied repeatedly about demonstrable facts in the promotion of Brexit. The demographic that voted the most for Brexit (white, working class, deprived areas) will ironically suffer the most.
A policy for the gullible, promoted by malfeasant snake oil salesmen charlatans taking advantage. There are no upsides to Brexit whatsoever. The best Brexit is no Brexit at all.
5
Boris Johnson has all the strength and sincerity of a wet lettuce leaf combined with a marshmallow. His lack of any planning is being increasingly revealed. The Brexit fiasco is partly due to the right wing of the Conservative Party, convincing enough voters that the source of all their problems, was the EU.
The source of many issues that are troubling Britons, is not the EU, it is the Conservative Party and their policies that are the real problems facing the UK. Leaving the EU will not solve problems that are a lot closer to home, than the neighbours across the English Channel.
4
"Britain’s main demand is for the European Union to ditch the so-called Irish backstop, a guarantee that the bloc insists it needs to ensure that goods flow smoothly across the Irish border whatever happens in trade negotiations with Britain."
Firstly, the highest objective of the backstop is not uninterrupted trade, but the maintenance of the Good Friday agreement, which commits all parties to a peaceful political process in Northern Ireland, and which signalled a change from the very long history of armed conflict which had killed so many and blighted the lives of generations both on the island of Ireland and in Scotland, Wales and England. It seeks to achieve this by preventing the return of a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, which incidentally would have the effect of interrupting trade.
Secondly, this is not "Britain's demand". It is the demand of a small portion of the population. Some whose approach to Britain's relationship with the EU is based on some sort of awful dream of a misremembered past; others whose entirely sensible horror at the experience of inequality in the UK, exacerbated by a decade of Conservative austerity government, has been cynically recruited by populists who lie about the causes of that inequality and its remedies; and finally those who see the greatest disruption as the greatest opportunity to enact a range of neo-con policies and profit from them.
1
If only our congress had the same courage as the British Parliament; if they did, we could get rid of the criminal now residing in the White House.
3
The situation is really quite simple and Mr. Castle states it accurately.
"A little over a month ago, Mr. Johnson, a brash, blustery politician often compared to President Trump, swept into office with a vow to finally wrest Britain from the European Union by whatever means necessary, even if it meant a disorderly, no-deal departure. Now, Parliament has pulled the rug out from under him, and Mr. Johnson is at risk of falling into the same Brexit quagmire that dragged down his predecessor as prime minister, Theresa May." The Tories are not up to the job.
As for Johnson's comment “I don’t want an election, the public doesn’t want an election" it remains to be seen if the public does not want one. The Tories under PM's May and Johnson have made such mess of their short time in charge it may well be time for a REAL change, Jo Swinson and the LibDems.
2
One thing people tend to forget: it's easy for the rich to go for a hard Brexit, as they have enough money even if everything should go down the drain. But as usual, they will not care one toss about the average Mr Smith who will be the one suffering.
That's why they are so scared of a second referendum where their "truths" from last time are called.
7
The Brits have never been enthusiastic members of the EU. They have bargained their way out of so many aspects of the EU, such as belonging to the Schengen zone. Enough is enough. Out! By the way, Scotland alone won’t be able to join the EU. The Spaniards and maybe the Belgians would veto their application (fear of setting a precedent for Catalonia and Flanders). But there could be another way: create a confederation of states with the Republic of Ireland (a member of the EU), Northern Ireland and maybe Wales. Using the German precedent, after the reunification with East Germany, this new confederation should be automatically admitted into the EU. Then, England could ask to join the US, (maybe 3 states, London, South England and North England). Then the good old special relationship would be cemented for good. And the EU could work on its own problems, a pressing matter of 3 wasted years on the buffoonish Brexit.
1
Great idea.
Meanwhile, the states on the US West coast, along with the eastern states from Virginia to Maine, plus Colorado, Nevada, and Minnesota, could secede and form a confederation, perhaps with Canada. Trump could have the rest of the US and rename it Trumplandia. Those states might not even notice if Trump fulfilled his wish to become King. The no-Deal Brexit UK would get along fine with Trumplandia. Boris and the Donald could compete over how fast they could shrink their GDP down to zero.
The departing US states would have no problem funding universal health care and much more.
2
It's noteworthy that Johnson, though angry over resistance to the no deal Brexit, is not questioning the norms of governmental procedure.
What might we expect from Trump if, in 2020, he wins the popular vote by 3 million but loses the electoral college? Will he abide by the norms and step down? If he resists, will the Republican party support him? Do we still obey the rules???
1
Thankfully, the odds of Trump winning the popular vote are near zero.
It remains clear that Westminster is still not clear about how it can get itself out of this mess, so I suggest a helpful nudge from the EU. The EU should force the UK out on October 31st, with an invitation to rejoin on November 30th. Let the UK experience a month of No-Deal disruption and chaos and then see whether anyone wants to call the whole thing off, revoke Article 50 and rejoin. Westminster cannot decide now in the abstract, so perhaps a little practical demonstration of the alternative is needed.
13
Popular democracy works best in a civil society where the "the public" are well informed and rational.
The Founding Fathers of the US did not have faith in the hoi poloi, hence the Electoral College. But the Electoral College is both skewed and partisan and therefore does not necessarily have the best interest of the country at heart. In the US, it is always personal wealth and power before party; party before country; and then there's Wall Street.
Westminster style parliamentary democracy, on the other hand, believes in "vox populi, vox dei", but the UK population is neither well informed nor rational, and as in the US, the mass has its justifiable grievances, not the least of which is the disparity in income, and opportunity to climb the social ladder.
Unfortunately, voting is an emotive issue, made more so by tabloids and the likes of Murdoch.
7
This spectacle could only happen in the country that brought us Monte Python. A Prime Minister arguing that his bluff needs to be upheld if he is to get a good deal, while the people he is trying to bluff, the EU watch.
14
If I understand the system, even if Boris were to lose an election in mid-October, he still has the reins of power at 10 Downing St for weeks afterwards and would not be shown the door until after Oct 31. So his gambit works. Either he is elected and has a free hand to fight for Brexit or he is defeated and a hard Brexit occurs.
1
@Suburban Cowboy
But if this anti not deal legislation goes through (which is highly likely) he will have to ask for another extension on October 31 if a deal is not approved by parliament. So his hands will be tied then. But I don't think he would still be in office then. Usually it takes a couple of weeks between an election and a new PM taking over but it can go faster if necessary. There is no fixed timeline for the "lame duck session" as in the United States.
3
Once again, in the first sentence, you can see how both Boris and the pro-Brexit Parliament have it all wrong and have made their own problems worse:
"British lawmakers on Tuesday rose up against Prime Minister Boris Johnson, moving to prevent him from taking the country out of the European Union without a formal agreement."
It's great that they want to prevent a "no-deal" exit; that would be just disastrous. But they also refuse to approve the only deal that's on the table: the one the the EU is offering and which May brokered and for which she was ousted. They and the British public think there's some mysterious deal out there that's more appealing or advantageous to them, but there isn't—unless, that is, it involves repealing the Brexit referendum.
Maybe new general elections, if they can be done quickly, will create a Parliament and deliver a Prime Minister who will face reality and call the whole thing off.
2
The Conservative party is torn apart but it’s seemingly still better at managing an unwritten constitution then what we see elsewhere where the constitution is written?! They are right to manage the risks of a no deal such as the logistical reality of providing access to food and pharmaceuticals. Risk management is not a surrender (nor is it a belief system); it’s a best practice to manage impacts & those real costs across systems. Isolationist like ideas will have more negative intended or unintended consequences because they are losing all their energy to fight against what actually is; we are interdependent whether we like that fact or not or not. The sooner we can state the real issues we face including planning vs only responding to increasing climate impacts, the closer we can get to working on the solutions that also exist in our shared systems.
1
Yesterday (3 Sep) there was a BBC interview with a Conservative MP who, while discussing Brexit and the positive was almost gleeful when he noted "...We'll be out from under the European Court of Justice."
My synapses fired as I heard this. Is this the real reason that the "conservatives" concocted all of the ills of being members of the EU? Is it just that they don't want to be part of the EU judicial system? That they (and their wealthy associates) are currently subject to EU legal proceedings and statutes. Is that the real problem?
13
Yes. Yes! Exactly. I am astonished at the lack of attention paid to this aspect of Brexit. I have tried to explain to British friends and family how the European Union affords protection to the citizens of the EU member states, in the same way that the federal Constitution of the US protects the citizens of the fifty states, against potential excesses by the government of any particular state. Every single Brit I have spoken with appears to be incapable of understanding the concept. They are entirely unable, or unwilling, to recognize and acknowledge the enhanced rights guaranteed to them by the European Union, preferring instead to adopt an attitude that the EU bullies the UK (taking no account of the fact that the UK is part of the EU, which has no existence separate and apart from its member states). You have just hit the nail on the head.
2
@ George N. Wells
You’ve hit the nail on the head. The wealthy elite in the UK do not want their disdain and “let them eat cake” attitude to be kept in check.
By leaving the EU, all protections given to the general populace will be replaced with laws that favour our overlords.
Brexit will indeed be the beginning of the end.
3
@George N. Wells This is what makes this Brexit business so absurd...because the EU Court of Justice is overwhelmingly based on British Socialistic principles and until recently was run by many British Judges who did an excellent job .It is the hatred that this collection of hard right Conservatives have that powers the Brexit movement and sadly the elderly pensioners who voted leave in the referendum who remember daddy coming home in his uniform after bravely fighting the Germans etcetc.
2
Johnson was a victim of the fact that he is not trusted. His 'million to one' chance of a no deal exit was bluff. His assertion of active progression on negotiation about the Norther Ireland backstop was a lie. His demands for complete removal of the backstop was a red line that he knew the EU would never agree to and so, despite his denials, no deal was always his intended outcome. The British people, and Parliament in particular, do not excuse or ignore such behaviour.
14
If only lawmakers in the US were as principled.
2
A general election now would only have the effect of kicking the can down the road. Especially is it returned another hung parliament. The turmoil in the British Parliament underscores for the EU the need to hold their line. The same parliament rejected the Withdrawal Agreement negotiated by the previous government. It is time to give this decision back to the people with the options of no deal, the already negotiated deal and the option revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU. There is really no need to fear the very people they politicians claim to stand for unless of course they have other masters and interests.
9
I couldn’t agree more. This farcical deadlock can only be broken by the British people in another vote.
At the end of this mess British fear mongers including the bankers and the very rich will get the Brits so panicky that they will have a second referendum on Brexit and the result will be that England will stay in the European Union.
6
The very rich can profit from any outcome. It's everyone else who'll truly suffer the consequences of leaving, particularly without a deal. Telling us, the British public, what we can reasonably expect is not "fearmongering". The sales pitch put out by the leave campaign, on the other hand, is just empty rhetoric.
England may end up being the only country in the UK to leave the EU. Scotland and Wales will likely end up joining the EU as independent countries. And Northern Ireland (currently part of the UK) may reunite with the Republic of Ireland, and therefore automatically rejoin the EU. That will leave little England (a country about the same size as New York State) independent and alone. And with the world’s center of economic gravity rapidly moving towards Asia, little England will have very little influence in the world outside the almost 500 million strong EU, damaging its economic prospects for generations to come.
Very encouraging to see members of his own party going against the leader.... this strengthens Britians reputation for democracy.. in contracts to US?
15
This is only about a particular form of brexit - no deal, "crash out". Only a few firebrands like Boris and Nigel want that. For all other conservatives, and many labour, the alternative isn't remain, it's leave with a deal.
The failing on the part of conservatives hasn't changed - they have no idea what they want, just what they don't want. And they have refused to offer one single realistic alternative to the backstop they hate so much. That's just political cowardice as brexit has been from the beginning.
12
Johnson is the wrong man for the job, which was clear from day one, and the British people were left in the cold. This whole mess should have never started in the first place. Bexit is a bad idea whose time has not come. The whole matter should be dropped. There is time to pull away from the brink, contrary to what some members of Parliament think.
15
The situation at Westminster looks hopeless, but there are two ways out. One is if Johnson gets his election and and wins a majority after campaigning on a specific new Brexit deal. He would then have the authority to approach the EU with these terms and I reckon might be successful, because Europe is hurting and will look for a way out of the mess. The other way is if Corbyn refuses to go along with an election, fearing defeat. Johnson could then go to the EU in mid-October and say, give me an extension until January 31. The EU would say, why? what are you proposing? Johnson could then say because I'm obliged to by law, and I'm not proposing anything. The EU would turn him down and the UK would depart the EU on October 31.
I suppose there's a third way, which would be for all those who voted against Johnson today to suddenly accept May;'s deal. It's a long shot, and they would look rather stupid, but I suspect that Boris might go along, finalize the deal and then call an election on his reform package, an election he might well win simply because the relief would be so great and the alternative so bad.
The biggest problem today is the lack of political alternative in the kingdom. The leader of the labor party is a anti-semitic neo marxist with no clear position on the topic of Brexit. If we had a better leader such as Tony Blair or David Milliband perhaps there would be less hesitation. Unfortunately we have the politicians we deserve...
2
The United Kingdom got a chance to see what chaos is following the "election" of donald trump. That Boris Johnson became Prime Minister is like a student failing a test, the teacher gives them the same test along with the answer key and the student fails the test again.
5
@rich
To be clear:
Mr. Johnson got elected after Ms. May has failed the test.
The only way to avoida no-deal Brexit is a Brexit on a deal. Nothing else.
Ms. May has had a real chance to get a deal and the internal consent. For many reasons she was unable to do so. Miscalculation, personal unsufficiencies and cowardice played a big role in her case.
Now there is no realistic chance anymore. The decay of Tories who were unable to agree when they where still one party is reducing the likelihood for a majority in Parliament on any deal even more than before.
Mr. Johnson´s position is consistent in the end.
The public didn’t elect Boris Johnson. Just a small, and very unrepresentative subset of the public.
Dang. Would like to see this kind of action from US legislative bodies that appear supine in comparison.
9
Remember the original source of “ left” and “ right”...in French political assemblies, the aristocracy sat on the right; the commoners sat in the left. How does that play out here, if at all?
1
That makes sense in a horseshoe-shaped chamber, where everyone’s along a spectrum.
The House of Commons instead has two sets of parallel benches. Government sits on one side. Everyone else sits on the other, facing them.
@Tom. Where does the House of Lords sit relative to the House of Commons?
1
At least they're fighting a civil war inside the parliament without any one getting killed. It's a modern democracy, alright.
6
Just doesn't get better for chaos and mayhem in the Brit's Parliament.
Seems they had an easier time of it with Buzz-bombs and rockets.
Either way this breaks, it's going to be ugly, and quite the snarky mess, too.
I feel a General Election coming on when (if the Liberal Democrats get their act together I can't see the country electing Corbyn) the PM may well find himself out of a job. This could develop into a lesson in how to deal with an intractable, egotistical leader that needs bringing down a peg or two! Perhaps the USA can still learn something from the old country!
9
I can't be the only one wishing for a comparable show of resistance in the US Congress.
17
Lots of commenters on here saying that our House and Senate Republicans should take note and follow this example of standing up to an authoritarian wanna-be. But trust me, if Republicans haven't stood up to our bully-in-chief by now, they never will. They have proven themselves to be trump's true partisan lackeys, willing to protect and enable him at all costs.
Only solution is to vote Blue in 2020, up and down the ticket. The Democratic party isn't perfect, it has it's flaws to be sure, but it's a step in the more preferable direction ... far more preferable than the alternative direction this country could go in with another 4 years of trump and the GOP in power.
19
Unlike in the US where the Republicans stand by their President regardless, the Conservative party has dealt with the autocratic tendencies of mini Trump Boris
13
While a student for a year in London from 1993-94, I followed politics there with fascination. Most memorably, the Tories were as schizophrenic then as now about Europe.
With this issue percolating for decades, and impelled by the Conservatives all along to the point of Brexit madness, let the Tories own it. Shallow as the process was, there was a vote to leave.
Enough already. No more extension from the EU. For better or worse, let Johnson see it through.
2
Unfortunately this just shows the dangers of narrow majoritarianism in a democracy. The interests of the very large minority, nearly half those that voted, are being entirely ignored on an issue that they regard as fundamental to their interests. They are being taken out of the EU against their will and losing citizenship of the EU along with many other rights, such as the right to live and work in any EU state. Just because they followed a process that one could call democratic (it was an advisory referendum by the way) doesn’t mean they should follow through on a project which has split the nation. There is no real democracy when the majority can trample on the rights of the minority in such circumstances.
6
Since William of Orange and "The Glorious Revolution" in the 1600's the "constitution" has meant precisely what parliament believed it could get away with.
I still find it odd that the only person really educated in our "constitution" is the Queen and given Parliament took the head of the last monarch who felt they could decide what parliament could do, we are left with nothing but a constitutionally educated monarch who can do nothing but warn, encourage and advise and a parliament who can do whatever they think they can get away with so long as it's compatible with the European Court of Human Rights.
It's.bloody typical of the arrogance of this nation to think we somehow don't need a bill of rights, that the old boys will always act like gentlemen and the monarch will forever warn, encourage or advise.
6
I do not know if the UK will ever leave the EU, but people in the UK have already left Brexit.
6
Boris Johnson has worked his plan to perfection. He had put the Conservatives on an election footing since the day that he formed his cabinet. He wanted the opposition to force the election. Check. He wanted to make Brexit the central issue. Check. Farage and his Brexit party are dead. Check.
Now Boris has firm command of 40%+ of the electorate while the Remain vote will be split between Labor, the Lib-Dems and other smaller parties. An easy Conservative win is coming to the UK with a pro-Brexit majority.
Why simply not to ask public in referendum, should there be second referendum on Brexit on not. And end all those politics speculations once and for all. If public vote that second referendum on Brexit would be democratic too, than simply arrange it.
2
An extraordinary show of 'nation's interests first' by the conservative rebels. Can Mr Johnson replicate? He just expelled this group of former ministers and senior party members from the Tory party. The purge should enable him to take over the Brexit party thus uniting the far right with his Party. A dangerous gamble indeed.
2
@val
"An extraordinary show of 'nation's interests first' by the conservative rebels."
Not really. A extraordinary show indeed but one of public heroism that comes much too late and is still using ineffective measures.
All these "rebels" were deeply involved in long-time poor efforts of Ms. May to reach a deal with EU when there was still a chance to get things done. Not all of them were known as sturdy helpers then and those who had been shyed away when courage was needed. Now this chance is gone, majorities for any deal are farer away than ever.
In addition they still seem not to be able to know the name of the game. This name is still "make a deal" and not "make a British law to exclude any no-deal Brexit". They can make such British laws in dozens night and day but this will not have any impact because this "deal" issue is not within the single power of UK in general and not within the powers of British Parliament in particular. This is not on the account of "dictatorial" structures of EU but a matter of fact. It always takes two at minimum to make such international deals between different countries.
Most British MPs including these bold rebel heros are overestimating their own importance exorbitantly. It´s still the way of thinking of an empire that once had been able to make it´s own legislation compulsory for affiliated countries also. It´s impossible to establish a community on equal terms with persons who are never willing to give up such outdated worldviews.
Boris is on to something in one sense, it's not possible to "negotiate" about a deal unless there is a credible alternative of not doing a deal.
Walking in and announcing "we will agree to a deal by date X" is just asking the other side to pile on "non-negotiable" demands.
It may be that a fair and equitable and voluntary deal can only be reached once the train wreck of Brexit has had a few weeks, months, or years to play out.
Kicking a big chunk of members out of his party is also a fair move. As Remainers, they can go join the LIberal Democrats, if the LibDems will have them. Voters can then vote them in as they wish. It's democracy in action.
The “credible alternative” you speak of is equivalent to the U.K. Prime Minister holding a gun to his own head and loudly proclaiming to the EU that unless he gets what he wants he will pull the trigger. Of course the closest bystanders are likely to get covered in gore but the person who pulled the trigger is in a worse state we can all agree.
These antics don’t impress the EU at all. The EU is built on Treaties. It is a legal entity and profoundly pragmatic and technocratic in how it does its business. The EU is willing to cut the U.K. some slack. But not at the cost of its own identity or interests. The U.K. is where it is today because former PM May took the hardest of all Brexit options in setting out her infamous “three red lines”. It is these red lines that have tied the hands of the U.K. ever since and consequentially there is limited scope for the EU to move. And then of course there is the “Irish question” and the Good Friday Agreement. Never was a nation like the U.K. so Ill served by its body politic.
Glaring omission: The rebellion was a reaction to Johnson's prorogueing of Parliament thereby stripping the House of debate and decision-making. This was a victory of Parliament vs. an overblown executive.
12
I yearn for the days long since gone now where there were 3 parties. True blue Conservatives, Red hot Labour and the wishy washy Liberals. These UK Liberals were quite conservative in reality. So you only had 2 choices. But now with all the different parties it has become too complicated for quick and easy resolution of this Brexit issue. And on top of that people within their own party can no longer stand fast with one predominant view to enable party unity.
2
@David The Liberal Democrats have a great window of opportunity now, they need to get their act together and capitalise on the chaos that the Conservative and Labour parties have got us into. I am no fan of either Johnson or Corbyn (though preferring the former to the latter) so would welcome a new face in Jo Swinson (the LIbDem Leader) she can not make any worse job of leading the country than the other two and may well be a lot better! It is a big ask though.
1
Actually, Parliament has to agree to a general election, which they are unlikely to do until the deadline for Brexit is pushed forward. If they agree now, then the date for the general election is in the hands of the PM.
2
I don’t know UK’s process well but from the other side of the Atlantic, surely, it is refreshing to see some balance of power to counteract the desire of the PM to be an authoritarian leader.
9
The main reason Britain is in this position today is because the wording of the original Brexit referendum rendered it non-binding. The courts ruled that despite the result, the only vote that really mattered was in Parliament.
So instead of calling for a new election, wouldn't it be easier to hold a new referendum, this time one that is correctly worded so it is binding on the government and Parliament?
I have been following this Brexit story on the BBC for more than three years now. During this time, I have not seen one public poll to gauge if voters have changed their mind on leaving the EU or not. However, based on the "man in the street" interviews that I have seen over the years, I'm pretty convinced that a new referendum will return the same result, and maybe with an even bigger majority.
3
Every interview I see seems to suggest that only UK versions of Trump supporters still support Brexit, the people who support remain on the other hand seem to have full cognitive powers.
19
Sadly, I think you are right.
I suspect that the filtering of news by the popular right wing press are responsible for this hardening of attitude. People, otherwise sensible people, are being fooled.
1
I pity anyone whose sole source of information is the BBC - which is notably Pro-Brexit.
2
Boris Johnson is getting his due. The Brits need to vote again on Brexit now that many more facts are available to voters before making their decision. Not sure it will happen but any Brexit is going to do more harm than good than remaining in the EU. Glad Parliament is pulling out all the stops to thwart its newest PM.
17
@me One question, what happens if we have another referendum on Brexit and it goes the same way?
1
Honest question: I feel like we pride our country on our constitution and all the things we did to break away from England. So why are we stuck with Trump when England is able to say no and deflect from party? I feel like we are the ones stuck with all the problems we fought the revolutionary war for.
21
@jimw
Look at this topic not in terms of the exact issue, but the processes involved. The UK government offered an issue up for vote very much implying that the vote was what would be carried out.
The public voted in a way that the establishment politicians did not expect. While those same politicians would have used the vote as definitive evidence and argument for their position had it gone how they want, they are now doing everything they can to reverse and undermine that vote using an increasing array of political tricks.
And they are doing this in active correspondence and collusion with the government from which the majority of people voted to separate from. As this article suggests, the remain coalition may now even work to attempt to undermine calls for a new snap election.
---
Swap roles around and imagine that the Brexit group had lost the election, and were now engaging in this sort of behavior to try to force a Brexit anyhow. You'd certainly be quick to label them as undemocratic, authoritarian, and autocratic tyrants.
The American Revolution was driven because people felt their voices were being ignored as an elite ruling class played their political games.
The fundamental part of a democracy is that nobody ever gets their way always. Not a right voter, not a left voter, and not a political establishment. This is a lesson that Britain, come the UK ,is still, hundreds of years later, struggling to come to grips with.
2
Oh please. Forget analogies with US independence. They fall down. “No taxation without representation” is not something that can be applied to membership of the EU into which the U.K. has always had an outsized democratic voice and input.
The core issue here is that people were asked to vote on an immensely complex issue with a simple Yes or No and without any fore-knowledge of what leaving the EU actually entailed. In the aftermath nobody could agree on what the Brexit vote meant. And what was promised by Brexit supporters could never be delivered in actuality. It’s a farce. Of course the U.K. is free to throw itself off a cliff and hope it survives the impact. Is that freedom?
1
“We lost the American colonies because we lacked the statesmanship to know the right time and the manner of yielding what is impossible to keep” Elizabeth R
1
Brexit is a fairy tale looking for a happy ending where the big bad wolf gets to write it. He always eats grandma in the end and the script inevitably has to go back for a rewrite. But the wolf can't help himself and keeps writing the same ending.
Badly executed, hopelessly naive, grounded in deceit, good faith was not exercised anywhere along its path.
It has placed the country in peril and the real hard numbers of those opposed to it are roiling beneath the surface.
Referendums are dubious at best but this was disastrous from the start.
Decisiveness should have been based on a two-thirds vote so that the will of the people, and not a sliver of the population, could actually be heard. As it is, there has been nothing but a din ever since it was enacted.
Request another extension from the EU, give a new second referendum, with two-thirds majority to win, with clearly outlined objectives written and decided on by a broad section of parliament. In so doing, the people of the UK will extricate themselves from an inept government.
22
@tom And if the result is still to leave the EU, what then?
If the result is to leave then the U.K. leaves but hopefully those voting will know what that means and can take a decision with knowledge of the kind of exit that is realistically available and it’s consequences.
1
@Allsop
As John R says, then the will of the people will have been decisive and the UK can leave.
But, there are good grounds for believing that the education of the average UK voter has been raised high enough through the process, to prevent such an outcome from happening. I think now they know the repercussions, whereas. previously, they did not.
2
Parliamentary democracy at its best, bravo! Unfortunately the madness of King Trump has no such check in the failed state founded by the slave owners and their “electoral college “ and to count three-fifths of a state’s slaves in apportioning representatives, not to forget the senate 2 each for California and New York!
14
Boris is Trump’s man, through and through. Trump is very proud that Boris is now wearing his big boy pants and making all the right moves.
Trump can advise Boris on the “art of the deal” so the UK can start winning Trump style.
9
@Midwest Moderate This is satire, correct?
3
Boris Johnson brought clarity to the rest of the world about British constitution and his own capacities.In the last week,Johnson took British politics to places it had not been in centuries.Johnson broke all conventions, used threats and intentions to carry them out.
The British Speaker took Johnson by surprise&insisted that a debate be held on the Opposition demand on powers of Parliament.Johnson wanted to use Parliament.But the tables were turned and Parliament asserted itself.
Johnson wanted to rush through his Brexit proposals through Parliament.But now, that plan was thwarted by Parliament.
Johnson has only one arrow left in his quiver.He wants elections and a new government,which will bring in Brexit.But again,his rivals suspect that Johnson would say that the elections would be held on October 14,2019.But once Parliament approves elections,he would dissolve Parliament, postpone elections beyond October 31,2019. This would allow him to get Brexit.
So there is very little hope left for Johnson to carry through his plans.Right now,Johnson is checkmated by similar tactics by his rivals.
What Boris Johnson’s rivals proved was that Britain could only be run only on trust,conventions,decency and gradualism.
Johnson made a big mistake of making loud serious threats.That left little alternative for his enemies.Either they fought or perished.They fought&saved themselves.Boris Johnson’s overt aggression did him in.A little more passivity&he may have achieved the impossible.
11
This is great news, Britain should remain in the EU countering fake news, misinformation, racisms and diving politics.
11
Wow. It took 400 years, but the world is going to get to see once-mighty Great Britain retreat all the way back to its little island... and not even all of the island.
12
@Gurbie Great Britain IS the island, that is it's name. Scotland and England United in 1707. Ireland joined in 1801, then part of Ireland left the Union in 1921. Basic facts.
Read Dr Pullarao's comment above your's and see why Britain is still "great".
They aren't retreating anywhere. In fact, their political system is working way, way better than ours by checking the power of a man who does not have his country's best interests at heart.
I only wish our's was working as well.
There's going to be an extension of the deadline anyway. Then this will happen all over again. Maybe by then someone - anyone! - will have come up with an alternative to the NI border situation. None of the current parties has . Maybe they could solicit ideas on facebook. It would be no less ludicrous than the current spectacle.
5
Interesting.
After three years of failure, now they panic.
5
The right wing is no longer the adversary of the left. It has become its own adversary.
As climate instability amplifies the consequences of political action - and inaction - the right is also becoming an adversary of humanity in general.
If humanity waits until this fact becomes apparent it will be too late.
9
The most googled question in Britain the DAY AFTER the Brexit vote was "What is Brexit?"
I guess they are figuring it out now, and have discovered that it means the end of their economy.
16
I think the most googled question in the UK after the referendum was “what is the EU”. Even more shocking than your narrative.
1
It’s not like the info wasn’t available to all before either. And it’s not like the other 27 nations didn’t say loudly, clearly and repeatedly that “you cannot have the benefits of the club without being in the club”. A fact one would have thought would be obvious from day one.
It seems the whole western world needs a massive education effort to teach people how to fact check, the need for at least three verifications through reputable media sources of any important announcement/stories, what are reputable media sources and the need to read media sources of several countries to make an informed choice. It’s easy enough to con enough of a nation with lies and fake news- but a citizenry with these basic skills and habits might find ourselves in such disastrous situations less often.
Johnson may be the shortest serving PM in English history. Odds are a vote of no confidence will succeed against him.
8
In situations where British governments cannot get their legislation through Parliament a general election is usually called. Corbyn and the rebels won’t allow an election to be called because they will lose. Johnson is way ahead in the polls.The political careers of the rebels would also be over. They will be replaced by Conservative candidates loyal to the party. Most Cnservatives want to leave the EU.
This is all a ruse by euro fanatics to try and stay in the EU. Mervyn King who was the governor of the Bank of England during the financial crises has said that No Deal will no impact on the British economy. It is just a game being played by some politicians to frighten people into remaining in the EU.
Boris is the most reviled Prime Minister ever and very likely to be the shortest serving one too! The next general election will see the demise of the Conservative party and the country will remain in the EU.
3
Nobody of any consequence domestically or internationally believes that a no deal will not have disastrous consequences for the U.K. It is sheer folly to believe that you can rip up all your trading relationships, especially those with your near neighbours, unilaterally destroy all agreements on issues such as family law, extradition and police cooperation (to name just some of hundreds of key issues), without consequence. The consequences will be devastating. This is not about freedom at all.
This is too important for parliament to decide. The people should vote.
I hope Britain holds another referendum that clearly states there are only three options: (1) stay in the EU as is, (2) accept the soft-exit negotiated by Theresa May, or (3) exit without an agreement. There is no fourth option--a better version of one, two or three.
Alternatively, I hope the parties turn the snap election into a quasi-referendum by making it crystal clear that a vote for Labor, for example, means staying in the EU on the current terms and a vote for the conservatives, for example, means a hard exit.
1
"n his rebuttal to Mr. Johnson’s call for elections, the opposition leader, Jeremy Corbyn, said he would agree to an election only after Parliament passed legislation barring a no-deal Brexit. The House of Commons is expected to approve the measure on Wednesday."
I have heard a lot about Mr. Corbyn - that he is a (scare-quotes) "socialist" and worse. He may be all that he is accused of being. But, in contrast to his conservative counterpart, he has so far exhibited a calm approaching sagacity on the matter of Brexit. If I were British, I would trust the future of my country to him rather than the volatile Mr. Johnson.
8
@Partha Neogy I could be wrong, but it would appear to me that "socialist" is as much of a propaganda buzz word in Britain as it is here in the U.S., a word used by Republicans and the far right to paint the opposition and Democrats in the scariest light possible.
2
As expected.
2
Nancy Pelosi, this is how it's done.
10
It is a different political system. Parliamentary with Ministries and Republican Bi-Cameral with an Executive Branch President are quite distinct on the inside while they appear similar to the lesser studied observer on the outside.
Exit the Brexit!
5
Voting for Brexit was like voting for bricks to float.
7
The Tories should no longer be called Conservatives. Any semblance of conservatism left the party or was kicked out today.
All that is left is racist authoritarian reactionary nationalists. That isn't the party of Churchill anymore than Republicans in the US are the party of Lincoln or Reagan.
Maybe when papers like the NYTimes stop referring to reasonable people as rebels and renegades and address people like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump on extremist terms, there might actually be a paper that matches reality. Until then, this paper normalizes extremist ideologies and gives succor to them in doing so.
25
One of PM Johnson's lackeys states that any member of the Tory party that votes against the Queen's government "are traitors" who deserve to be kicked out of the party. The ERG brexiteers voted against "the Queen's Government" on a regular basis during the May premiership, they regularly kneecapped her on votes and in debate. Now that they are in power they demand a level of loyalty that they never lived up to themselves.
12
@KJ Peters Sound familiar?
3
@KJ Peters
You obviously haven’t heard that the news that Boris Johnson’s hand was forced by the fact that the Conservatives were losing even their safe seats by wide margins in recent by-polls and in danger of being relegated to an afterthought in British politics.
Now the worst possible event, for a Tory Party member, is about to happen. The election of Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour Party leader, as Prime Minister. Mr Corbyn has promised to take away all of the “toys” the Conservatives have acquired since the days of Margaret Thatcher. Conservatism in Britain is about to die and Boris Johnson and his co-conspirator, Nicholas Farange, the diabolical leaders of the Brexit movement, are to blame. They killed it because they didn’t know when to stop lying and trying to fool people into believing their lies.
12
Parliament had three years to debate and agree to it’s flavor of Brexit but failed. Most of those who oppose a No Deal Brexit want a No Brexit or one so watered down that it would make the whole exercise pointless. They’re just paying lip service to the referendum result for fear of appearing undemocratic. One has to wonder how many are doing this on principle.
Corbyn wants a vote to stop a No Deal exit before going to the polls so that the same charade is re-enacted if Boris wins a parliamentary majority on his own.
It’s going to be a long autumn and en even longer winter for British politics.
2
Previously the media had portrayed Boris Johnson as a clown, but now everyone can see how dangerous a person he really is.
9
Sound familiar?
The only difference being that the PM becomes such by virtue of being nominated the leader of his party.
This means that our new pm was voted in by less a handful of conservatives party members. The average age of white old men in the party is above 67 years - so less than 0.2 percent of the electorate.
Boris has no mandate and now no majority. The next six months will be a bloody Conservative party war from within.
And that doesn’t include the disastrous upcoming effects of a no deal Brexit.
All we need now is for our 93yr old monarch to die and the British will find themselves without a competent PM or leader of Opposition AND without the comfort of the continuity she quietly provides.
Her Maj may have some awesome soft powers, but can only warn, advise or encourage - she still becomes “the leader” people look to during times of national strife. She has a lifelong throne, has been on that throne for nigh on 65yrs and it is human nature to turn to a leader when catastrophes happen.
Someone better wrap her up in bubble wrap to keep her safe- as if we crash out of the EU - Boris is not who the nation will turn to for comfort and inspiration in time of national danger. And make no mistake, Brexit is a national danger and will continue to be for many years.
We can only hope she survives to the old age of her own mother- 101
It surprises me everyday how little people understand how unprepared the UK is for a No-deal Brexit, even more so the Irony of a desired return to a Neo-British empire after they turned their backs to their realms. Oh well here's hoping the Queen decides to move here.
3
Philip Lee has eloquently stated:
"The Brexit process has helped to transform this once great Party in to something more akin to a narrow faction, where an individual's 'conservatism' is measured by how recklessly one wishes to leave the European Union.“
Case closed
9
I wish Trump would have to stand before Congress to explain his actions. He couldn’t cope with the give and take. I always wonder who has it worse...the Brits (really the English) with Brexit, or us with Trump. Both have been fostered by Rupert Murdoch.
15
At least in Britain lawmakers are apparently not playing along. The entire Republican party in the US has become nothing but a chorus of enablers. British MP apparently find their PM and his policies distasteful, and contrary to US Republicans they actually act on that feeling. Good for them!
11
@Joe Maliga “Both have been fostered by Rupert Murdoch.”
Putin, actually.
6
Isn’t Boris Johnson the same guy who misled people in to believing the wonders of Brexit to begin with? Looks like British people are “tired of winning” too. Here in america were still not “tired of winning”
3
Not sure exactly what the issue is. Leave means leave. PM Johnson will get it done.
@John S.
You’re right. You’re not sure what the issue is.
17
How about Pay Per View if/when Boris shows up for PM questions? And what would you pay to witness Don standing before our House “answering” their questions?
6
300 years later, the British political system still works better than its former North American colonies.
12
Seems to me that the people need to elect new leadership. Hold those elections!
1
Dear America, please see politicians doing there actual jobs instead of padding their pockets and try to emulate.
13
So the pre-Boris conservative radical rebels are now establishment reactionaries and the old conservative spreadsheet reactionaries are now conservative radical rebels. Makes perfect sense.
1
it's refreshing to see members of a government actually act on something.
8
The UK in average is very poor compared to Italy and Spain who are at about the same economic level in Europe.
In the UK very low education, low wages, high violence. 50 % higher incarceration rate than the European average, no social life, bad health coverage.
That is the British culture. Nothing to do with th EU .
1
This is the best season of "The Apprentice -UK" yet!!
1
Mr. Boris Johnson appears self-centered and a bit over-confident. But others too should be clear about EU's limitations. England should be ready to be lonely in a world of mega alliances and countries --- at a time when a global recession or worse is looming large. President Trump, for all his love of Britain and Johnson, is now busy loosening NATO and trans-Atlantic ties! Brexit would be followed by Scotland leaving the U.K. Free Wales may not be too far.
As for Irish backstop, a United Ireland or merging of the Catholic regions of Ulster with the Republic should do the trick!
ion or worse. They must also be prepared for Scotland quitting the UK. Besides, they should either accept a United Ireland or at least accept the Catholic majority areas of Ulster to merge with the Irish Republic.
5
Great to read Brit MPs have far more courage than US counterparts, placing country before egotistical egoists.
America, take note. It took just one brave man to cross the lanes and now there is a possibility to re-shape the future.
America, we can do it too.
It is such a pleasure to read the sane viewpoints about all things political here on NYT.
12
What happens if UK lawmakers pass the “No Deal” resolution, but there is no deal with the EU by October 31 and the EU refuses to extend the deadline?
1
@Nick D
The EU will go to any end to keep the UK under their control, and there are clearly a sizable number of British politicians of the same mindset. So the rules don't really mean anything.
At this point I would not be surprised to see political maneuvering such as the EU passing rules allowing a country to reenter within x years, under its former agreements, after leaving without a formalized deal, with retroactive effect.
It'd basically enable Brexit maneuvering to continue for years until parliament can manage to find a way to finally win a majority vote overturning it and claim that democracy has spoke...
I hope Republican members of the US Senate read this. Maybe it will give them the courage to do what is right for their country, not their party.
13
@Mickey T
I fear that stopped with Reagan
1
I still don't understand why the deal isn't voted on by the British people in a referendum. If the "Leave" portion of the population actually knew what would happen when they voted to exit, would they have actually voted that way? The whole process was skewed and perverted - promising things that could never be delivered but working off of peoples' emotions and ignorance to their advantage.
And always you find the right wing media, primarily Rupert Murdock's companies pulling strings, out to destroy the basis of our democracies and established systems that place specific ideologies into the mindset of average countrymen which run counter to their well being. It is sick and twisted that our countries have been so manipulated but certain people have made so much money preying upon our frustrations.
I hope the British can fight this and reestablish order and rationality because that sure isn't happening here (just yet).
13
@Lucas Lynch
Right now one of the big criticisms of against the EU is that when elections go against their interests, they just manage through political maneuvering to keep forcing the people to vote again and again, until they vote 'the right way.'
This started in 1992 with the Danish Maastricht Treaty referendum. The treaty was about greater European integration working to strengthen the EU. It was rejected by voters in a very close election. So the EU and Danish politicians maneuvered and held another election in 1993, and won.
Another was in 2001 with the Nice treaty in Ireland. That treaty was about strengthening the EU to prepare for eastward expansion. That was rejected by Irish voters, so their politicians alongside the EU engaged in various political maneuvering and held another vote in 2002, and won.
This is why I think both parties want to avoid this, regardless of how they think it might turn out. I think one of the biggest reasons there's so much a movement against the EU is the perception that the people themselves don't have a voice, but instead are being directed a more autocratic than democratic central authority. 'Vote again, peasant.' For remainers, another vote plays into this quite strongly. For exiters, they have nothing to gain from another referendum and voting again would itself undermine the meaning of these referendums in any case.
1
@Lucas Lynch
Right now one of the big criticisms of against the EU is that when elections go against their interests, they just manage through political maneuvering to keep forcing the people to vote again and again, until they vote 'the right way.'
This started in 1992 with the Danish Maastricht Treaty referendum. The treaty was about greater European integration working to strengthen the EU. It was rejected by voters in a very close election. So the EU and Danish politicians maneuvered and held another election in 1993, and won.
Another was in 2001 with the Nice treaty in Ireland. That treaty was about strengthening the EU to prepare for eastward expansion. That was rejected by Irish voters, so their politicians alongside the EU engaged in various political maneuvering and held another vote in 2002, and won.
This is why I think both parties want to avoid this, regardless of how they think it might turn out. I think one of the biggest reasons there's so much a movement against the EU is the perception that the people themselves don't have a voice, but instead are being directed a more autocratic than democratic central authority. 'Vote again, peasant.' For remainers, another vote plays into this quite strongly. For exiters, they have nothing to gain from another referendum and voting again would itself undermine the meaning of these referendums in any case.
I find it sad that so many give deference to a vote, Brexit, that said nothing and meant nothing. Leave, Remain, that's it? Details matter. That is why we have representative democracy, because a parliament can work out the details and fix it later, as needed. Referendums are bad news in almost all cases, as we regularly discover in California. Some say they must respect the vote, but the vote was a muddle, saying nothing and meaning less. Brexit got 52% for a fantasy, a painless and profitable leave.
41
In other, less elegant words: the British people voted on a pack of lies.
12
Let's hope Mr. Lee's dramatic example will inspire one or more Republicans on the Hill.
If horror movies were made about the machinery of governance and international relations, the MPs would have run out screaming as the ancient timbers of Westminster started cracking.
But seriously, it would be interesting to overhear Mr. Trump's advisors as they try to explain how and why this is happening.
11
In essence, this is a move by the same political elite that had impeded Brexit for 3 years to grab power on the grounds that the deal they impeded has not come to pass. It is an entirely anti-democratic thwarting of the Brexit referendum, a coup pure and simple.
5
Brexit was the product of a misbegotten populist experiment contrary to centuries of British representative democracy. To turn over this matter to the general public where a momentous upheaval was promoted with zero plans to effect it was criminally naive.
It’d make as much sense for the American voting to decide on what a healthcare plan should look like or how a trade agreement with Mexico and Canada should be negotiated.
31
@Jay Spieler
Jay, democracy does not mean the people get to decide, as long as they vote the 'right way.' That's authoritarianism with a paint job. While I do not agree that Brexit is a bad idea, I can fully empathize with your point of view. In a democracy people can, and will, make bad decisions. But in any case where people are given a choice declared to be meaningful, it is the obligation of society to then uphold that choice.
This is ultimately why individuals such as Socrates were opposed to democracy. Who ought captain a ship? The most qualified man who has spent his life sailing, or a man that a wide and actively misinformed informed public vote on?
In more contemporary times this is also where Winston Churchill's famous quote, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." came from. That wasn't just wordplay. Democracy is awful, but it beats other options which tend to lead towards tyrannical elite classes. On the other hand, maybe democracy does too, so where do we go from there?
2
@Jay Spieler
Ah, yes it is much better to have corporate lobbyists iron those out behind closed doors lest the proles have a say and we get too much democracy.
The fact that you find "populism" the opposite of "representative democracy" speaks volumes.
And by the way, Britain has had very little representative democracy throughout its history.
If it had any democracy, people would be legally allowed to own land instead of merely being allowed to rent it temporarily from the nobility.
If it had any democracy, corporate entities wouldn't be allowed to vote in the City of London and technically count for twice the number of votes that residents have. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39283177
The right of corporations to vote in elections is found nowhere else in the world, and is as anti-democratic as it gets.
The whole populism slur is nothing more than a refusal to accept that in a democracy you don't always get your way. Sometimes, a bunch of people turn out to vote that didn't before, and vote the "wrong" way.
Perhaps if EU membership had been sold better, you wouldn't have this problem. Unfortunately for you, the promised riches of EU membership never materialized.
Since the austerity regime of 2007, poverty rates doubled and housing costs have gone up over 37%. Even nurses and doctors can no longer afford to live near the hospitals they work. If even that educated class can't make a go of it, how can anybody else?
3
It is my opinion that the despicable behavior of our PM is partially due to America's despicable president. Trump made obscenity acceptable with his comments of grabbing women's genitals. Trump's insane environmental policies made it acceptable for Brazil & Bolsonaro to burn the Amazon, the lungs of Planet Earth. Trump facilitates gun violence when he demonizes anyone who disagrees with him.
America was once the beacon of democracy everyone aspired to and looked towards for leadership such as WW II.
But the last two years of experiencing ever worsening decadence out of the president of the United States tells us that beacon has flickered out.
Endless bickering has replaced common courtesy and thoughtful discourse. Debate and science have been replaced by deceit and trickery.
Boris Johnson fits perfectly alongside Trump & Bolsonaro. Planet be damned, all that matters is winning (sic).
47
I love the UK dearly and for the most part I regret leaving London to move back to the States (the food is better here and cost of living is cheaper but that’s about it). I found the UK’s population to be much more civil and in general more well informed about the world and current events when compared to the ignorance of us Americans.
Even with all our flaws and the joke that is the federal government, I don’t think it’s fair to place the blame on the US or even on Trump. The UK sided with Boris on Brexit before Trump was even elected president. This is a global trend that started before Trump. Trump’s merely a product of this same global trend. Just look at whats been happening in Eastern European countries (Hungary, Poland etc) Brazil, the Philippines, Israel, Turkey and UK. All these countries are abandoning civility, embracing nationalism and pivoting away from democracy (to different degrees) and it all started before Trump. A similar thing was happening all over the world in the 1920s and 30s.
Trump certainly isn’t helping the situation and he does encourage this bad behavior, but the train was already moving when Trump jumped on board.
Overall though I think the UK’s situation is better than ours. I can’t wait until I can jump ship and move back to London
5
Breaking News: This just in : The sun has finally set on the British Empire...!
12
May be Republicans can learn something from conservative British parliamentarians and impeach President Trump.
20
I wonder, wondering at Johnson, if the lurches of Donald Trump appear from abroad as Machiavellian machinations, as though an intelligence animates his outbursts.
Brexit, from here, makes no discernible economic sense, whatever the sluggishness of the EU bureaucracy.
The white plutocracy there and here are oddly incoherent and inept, at everything...
10
Everything now seems to be unfolding just as Putin planned it. Weaken the United States by meddling in the 2016 election to put the unfit narcissistic Trump in the White House. Simultaneously, weaken the United Kingdom and the European Union by meddling in the absurd Brexit referendum. Both efforts by Putin's trolls have succeeded in sowing chaos and destruction in Russia's most threatening adversaries, while undermining the very concept of liberal democracy that is so inimical to Putin's authoritarian vision. The rise of authoritarian regimes in the former Soviet colonies of Hungary and Poland-- likely aided by Putin's trolls-- along with the dictator-worshiping Trump, must surely warm whatever passes for cockles in the sclerotic heart of Czar Vladimir the Greatest.
And now, a seriously fractured Democratic Party along with a seriously broken British government offer Czar Vladimir and his trolls new opportunities to further strengthen his imperial ambitions by distracting, dividing, and weakening the adversaries.
Yes, everything seems to be going according to plan.
30
Excellent.
2
Imagine if our GOP had the guts to confront Trump like this.
22
Nice the Lib-Dems have another vote, but all this is all three years too late. Deal-schmeal. There isn't one.
Labour surrendered credibility in the Remain camp when it did an abysmal job explaining to its constituents what Leave really would mean to the already (Tory) damaged economies of North of England, formerly Labour strongholds. Had it stuck to its Remain guns, Labour might have picked up new, young voters (think Bernie voters) even if it cost them the older union voters it previously relied on.
No one, from David Cameron's miserable attempts to set the original case for Remain through the lying deceits of Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson as the Brexiteers, ever addressed the issue of Eire/Northern Ireland's borders.
What Britain needed, 30 months ago or more, was an honest communication with its people about the tripe they'd been served by the Leave Campaign, and a chance to rethink their position with facts in hand before everyone's positions solidified like Purbeck marble.
Did no one think 2019 would ever come?
9
Weren’t some of these rebels the same ones who cast votes for a Johnson as PM despite his making clear his intentions? Just what did they expect?
145
@Mikes 547 Not necessarily. Of the 313 Tory MPs, only 160 voted for Boris Johnson. 153 Tory MPs voted for someone else.
In the British system, it's the leader of the majority party (or majority coalition in this case) in the House of Commons who is asked to form a government by the monarch and becomes the Prime Minister. He or she is not elected by the full House like the Speaker of the House is in the U.S. congress.
Half the Tories knew exactly what they were getting.
19
Bingo. It's quite likely the Tories trying to look good after they've foisted him on the world—a negotiating tactic also so spectacularly successful here that it made American car manufacturers look sensible. ("Look, we just wanna push these existentially important climate regulations back another year, eh? At least we're not the loser, who's trying to kill them entirely!")
The obvious solution, there as here, is to leave NOT ONE Tory in office.
NOT. ONE.
13
@Mikes 547
Most of them voted against Johnson in the lead-up to the final vote for leader. That's why they all were thrown out of his cabinet and onto the back benches.
8
I view this in the context of three years of failure.
The House of Commons has not acted on the most important matter before it for a long three years of failure. It has long seemed it is unable to act, unable to break the deadlock.
That should have meant a new election.
Unable to govern means now the same thing it meant with Cromwell, "You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
They would not be jammed against the deadline if they had not failed even to go away for so very long.
4
That was an amazing display of a verbal brawl as a form of governing. Maybe it is better then government by tweets? I really don’t know. On another note...Amazing how similar B.Johnson and Trump are as they try to govern...and their similar appearance physically. Form follows function ? Doubtful but scary thought.
6
Hopefully BoJo will get his just desserts. A complete fraud.
14
Well, Boris, that's what you get for acting liking a dictator. I look forward to YOUR resignation speech.
8
Our lame GOP would never do such a thing. Good going Tories! Leaders with principals unlike ours
8
From the article: "Labour has said that its priority is to stop Britain leaving the European Union without a deal ..."
What I don't understand is why Labour's priority isn't to stop Britain leaving the European Union ... period.
9
Because most of the traditional labour voters voted for Brexit and not delivering it would be painful after the event. A Brexit as close as possible to being a member of the EU is probably as good as can be hoped now.
6
Jeremy Corbyn, Labour’s leader, irrationally dislikes the EU. He doesn’t understand that the only way Britain can compete for foreign investments with the E.U. while being outside of it, is by becoming a fiscal paradise. Lower taxes of course need to be offset by lower public spending (unless you’re Trump, than $1 trillion deficits are okay).
7
@Mr It seems to me after seeing the confusion that Brexit has brought, that Labour ought to consider that maybe its voters aren't as much in favor of it any more (and the vote was close 52%-48%) and they ought to have been pushing for a second referendum as a means to cancel Brexit.
1
How about this thought — blocking the implementation of a free and fair referendum for over 3 years bears no resemblance to a democracy. Elections matter, or at least should in a democracy. What a hypocritical mess.
8
Nobody stated what leaving the EU actually meant. Even Farage during is campaigning stated that he was looking for a Norway like set up. Such proposal is closer to staying in the EU than to Theresa’s deal and definitely way closer than no deal.
9
@Conservative Democrat it was an expensive opinion poll. even as said at the time it was not a binding vote. how many people didn't bother because of that?
4
So I'm curious how Donnie will play this power game now.....
2
When all is said and done, the problem is Ireland, wishing to naintain an open boarder with that ficticious state called Northern Ireland, Solve the NI issue, and this becomes the tempest in the teapot. Put the commercial border in the Irish sea,. Problem vanishes.
1
Agree that was actually the original offer from the EU to the UK for the backstop. This was changed to include the whole of the UK because the 10 votes of the DUP (which are a minority player in NI) stated that they would never accept differences between NI and the rest of the UK. This is obviously very hypocritical as they are more than happy to keep abortion illegal in NI when it’s legal in both the rest of the UK as well as Ireland.
5
Some semblance of sanity is returning to Great Britian. And just in the nick of time. Now, have a revote on leaving the EU, and stop inflicting pain on the people.
Republicans, you are next.
5
England got Brexit. The US got Trump. Both countries are now tearing themselves apart. What we SHOULD be doing is uniting the US, Europe and other countries to fight Russia's global war on democracy.
14
“History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.” (Karl Marx)
“Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." (Herman Goering, Nuremberg, 1947)
A few Alpha Males stomping the planet now deliberately creating 'chaos and fear of The Other ' for their benefit. despite being too mentally unstable and self absorbed to have absorbed any lessons from History themselves..but their crony advisors certainly have, I'd suggest.
Time to dust off my old copy of William L. Shirer's masterpiece " The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"
It's all in there.
10
The are not Alpha males. They are too insecure - they are just bullies that have found power and make other people afraid of change believe in a past that never existed
10
@Mr
Fair enough. I think both Trump and Johnson, among others, tick every box for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
3
The UK government is bought & paid for by the EU & its OVERLORD DICTATORS. You are the fools, if you think the EU is the way to go. Wake up.
@John
They are paid by an Alien master race coming from Alpha Centauri.
This theory is just as creadible as yours...
4
I think the EU is the way to go. Thanks.
3
His premiership will be really short.
I wonder how many Scaramucci’s that will be.
7
The Labour Party and others are not seeking a deal. They are using the lack of a deal to stop Brexit. Johnson needs to call for another election and show Parliament and the Labour Party just how much opposing the will of the people will cost them.
1
Well, Great Britain, that's another fine mess you got yourself into. America, take heed: this is what happens when you let your emotions get the better of you when you go out and vote. It is evident that many people in the UK voted to leave the EU without fully knowing or understanding the consequences of such an action and voted with their hearts rather than their heads. I hope that in November 2020 the people of the US will use their heads rather than their hearts to evaluate the Trump era, and will conclude that we cannot go through this misery another four years.
11
“.......voted to take control of Parliament from the government.” Isn’t Parliament the government? If not, what entity is the government?
1
It’s not. The government is the executive branch (and ministers are from the parliament). Parliament (in its totality, including minority parties) is the legislative body.
3
@J O'Kelly No. the government is the party with the most seats (or a coalition commanding a majority) and has the Prime Minister and cabinet ministers
1
The government refers to the party currently in power.
It looks like trump’s Mini-Me grossly overestimated his powers.
8
The chaos that is occurring in GB is exactly the result that Putin desired when he had his comrades hack the Brexit referendum. That referendum does not have any actual or moral validity.
10
When in 1999 Australia had a referendum on whether to remain a part of the British Constitutional Monarchy versus becoming a Republic, they also voted on the mode of Republic too. David Cameron made a terrible error in not following that example.
3
@Mary probably because he didn't expect a vote to leave. It was held to shut down some noisy opposition
1
If there’s a law passed that there cannot be a no-deal Brexit, then why wouldn’t the EU just keep saying no to any deal which would be a de-facto ending any hope of Brexit?
Or is that the actual plan?
1
What’s the difference between British parliamentary democracy and American representative democracy? Theirs work!
7
Britain seems to be a one giant muddle. Parliament rejected Theresa May Brexit deal 3X; they then came up with 8 proposals none of which passed a majority vote. Now they have Boris Johnson who wants a no deal Brexit so Britain can be a colony of the US. Parliament again rejected the Johnson proposal. What do they want? Do they know what they want? No wonder Britain is now a second rate country with delusions of being a first rate country.
5
Excuse me where are you living? Hong Kong? Seems you have a mess on your hands there...solventhat
Mess 1st
England has never been alone since the victory of William the conqueror (a French man) at the battle of the Hastings in 1066. People and goods from France were always available for the nascent state. Wars between the French and the English left England to take care of itself (Kind of today's Brexit). England as an isolated state descended into anarchic civil war with the war of the roses until the outsider, Henry Tudor (King Henry VII), defeated Richard III at the battle of Bosworth field. Although Queen Elizabeth I ( a Tudor) did very well for England the strength and the recognition of England became paramount only after the unification of the crown of Scotlabd and England by James VI and I of Scotland and England respectively in 1567.
Scottish explorers, diplomats, academics, scientists, economists and etc, roamed all over the earth claiming territory on land and on seas in the name of the crown. People of all of walks of life became subservient to the crown. United Kingdom as a monarchy captivated the world over and no wonder it became known as the "empire on which the sun never sets".
United Kingdom and Great Britain have never been alone since its inception and "Brexit" will be as catastrophic as the wars of the Roses were to England. What just happened in the house of parliament is the progenitor of the chaos ahead. Brexit could be the political "succesion" dispute waiting to start another war of roses albeit political.
4
The pro-Brexit folks were not voting to crash out of the EU. The referendum was never about that. How the U.K. got to this point is an illustration of total governmental dysfunction. Full stop.
4
"Last week, Mr. Johnson provoked outrage by curtailing Parliament’s sessions in September and October, compacting the amount of time lawmakers would have to deal with the most crucial decision the country has faced in decades."
Not that I'm an expert by any means, but 3 years seems like more than enough time. Not even a plan detailing stages of exit has been put into action. To the objective, perhaps ignorant, observer from afar, it seems like the country is having a hard time implementing the will of a majority of the British. Perhaps they all fear what a general election would do to their positions of power? That is everyone except for Johnson who can at least argue that he is acting upon a majority vote.
1
@john
The leave campaign never discussed the actual details of a Brexit. One of the firm promises they did make was that they would have a deal before exiting. Since they failed to deliver on their one firm promise or even the absurd lies they peddled on that famous bus, it is not credible to claim that the people voted for a no-deal Brexit.
5
The number of ex-colonials reading this with utmost delight. Revenge is a dish only enjoyed cold... badly paraphrasing Napoleon, the archenemy of the British having the last laugh!
It is not good to make fun of the fallen but I will make an exception hoping that the almighty forgives me.
The British have old blood stains all over their hands and land.
4
Right. And we don’t.
4
BrExit would destroy the UK economy. Let's see voters get woke and save England!
4
So, British lawmakers actually have the guts to stand up against a horrible "leader," unlike the Republicans in America. There's more than one thing we could learn from Europe.
17
If they had a vote today Brexit would lose. Just as, if we had an election today Trump would lose.
The right turn being made by so many governments is, in fact, NOT the will of the people, it is a cynical move to co-opt dis-satisfaction with modern life and turn the world into one giant fascist oligarchy.
13
A flicker of light in this dark time. Let's hope this is a turning of the tide against the 40 year drift towards plutocracy that has accelerated over the past 4 years with the race-baiting 'populism' of Trump and Brexit and culminated
(hopefully) in this attempted coup by Boris Johnson and his Brexiteers. Next stop: the United States.
6
At least someone in this world has an ounce of principle. It used to be two someones, but J McCain is gone. We're all experts, right? Wrong.
1
If only we had a legislative body as intelligent and as brave to stop our Boris.
10
How entertaining is brexit in England?
2
I see this with former co-workers too... give things enough time, things are eventually set straight.
The majority can be stupid for awhile, but long term, there is hope.
And no, Trump will not be a two-term president.
Or even if he is, long term, the history books will not be kind to him.
And I see my former co-worker, Jean-Charles, he ended up divorced.
2
I wish we had politicians like those Parliamentary conservatives in our Congress who would rebel against Trump, instead of continuing as enablers and sycophants. The Brits both see the disaster coming, and actually do something about it. Not so, the Senate behind their Chief Toady...
11
More spine than our congress.
6
What is a conservative anymore? The movement has become a joke, at least among thinking people
8
What a shame there aren't members of the Republican Party here with the same moral fortitude that those Conservative Party "rebels" in the UK showed today.
9
..I wish we could have a snap election of our own..
11
Its japan all over again. A new prime every few months in the mid 90’s through to 2008
1
Is Boris hoping to turn to Putin in this election to shore up a majority?
5
No more Brexit. No more Boris. No more Dorian. No more Donald.
9
I hope Brits turn this around and vote to stay in the EU! We need unity more than ever, in every way possible. Johnson sounds like a habitual liar to me. The people should not trust him!
6
A tousled PM name of Boris
Charged into the House like a taurus
He tried to prorogue us
A move that was bogus
Now the prospect of doom is before us
4
Brexit was and is a very bad idea. End this nonsense now!
7
Johnson is doing a Trump on the UK taking it into the gutter.
8
For sure. He is Trump’s twin.
4
what is the shortest time a British PM served? Boris should try to go down in history for being THE ONE...
maybe he should hold off the moving van first...
Maybe Donald will go down in history as the first tweets-writing 5th grader impeached as the president?
4
the tide is turning
8
How beautiful that Parliament seems to represent its constituents and have an immediate impact. The fact that the people can register their dissatisfaction with the direction of a country, without fear or influence of money and robocalls [Citizens United] is a welcome breath of fresh air.
How hard is it to immigrate to England?
11
It seems to me that the majority of British MPs, regardless of party do NOT want to see the United Kingdom leave the E.U. Johnson, however maniacal he may be, is correct. The E.U. is not likely going to give the British government a better deal. Second, the parliamentary machinations today will only put off the inevitable, at some point the referendum has to be upheld. Third, the British have been toying with the E.U. for nearly 39 months, it’s time to go. The deal is not likely to get any better. And after today, there is no reason to think the E.U. will give anything to Johnson before an election, almost certainly setting the stage for a no-deal Brexit to occur by October 31.
Johnson, in fact, has called his own people’s bluff. The real issue is rather than an election, the British should hold a second referendum. If the British uphold a Brexit then a no-deal Brexit would ensue. If the British defeat Brexit, then a vote of no confidence in the Johnson-Conservative government could be held before a new election is called. They are making this unnecessarily complicated. It’s not! Time’s up!
2
The issue here is that the referendum made no reference to the terms under which UK should leave the EU. And the campaigning before the referendum deliberately mislead the public as to the financial impacts.
3 years later, with Nissan and Honda having announced they will wind down manufacturing operations (and BMW/Mini likely not far behind), the true impacts of Brexit (and the lies that were spread in the campaign) are finally being exposed (and that's without counting the impact to Financial Services which is the largest service sector in the UK economy)
The reality is that the referendum was advisory (and if it had not been would have been declared invalid due to campaign finance irregularities in the Leave side).
It's time for the adults to step up and take responsibility for the future of the UK.
I fear for Ireland in all this. It was sort of defacto united with the border removal. A hard border may return us to "The Troubles", a horrific piece of collateral damage to Brexit, so unnecessary.
7
When the EU gave the Brits an extension, they advised to not waste the extra time.
But of course, that is exactly what the Brits did.
6
Boris Johnson has barely been in office - three or four weeks - and he's already playing the dictator. I suppose he'd always planned to do it, but he (and every other dictator wanna-be in the world) is clearly emboldened by the exploits of Donald Trump. Thank God his fellow party members are defying this assault on democracy. I don't think he will prevail.
7
I find it totally shocking that a legislative body would dare to rebel against the whims and whines of a "stable genius". I mean who would, in this day and age where there is so much information as to the consequences of a no deal brexit, ever think that anyone would go against someone who proclaims themselves to be a "stable genius". Opps. Sorry wrong country.
But really, If legislative bodies don't kow-tow to their leaders what are they but a bunch of anarchists. Oh. Wait, they're doing their jobs!
Oh my, how refreshing is that?
Vote Blue. Vote for someone who might do their job.
13
Perhaps a profile in courage and a much-needed shift in political party allegiance.
May the renegade British Conservatives' refusal to remain loyal to the intentionally chaotic Prime Minister Boris Johnson, and his narcissistic grandstanding buffoonery, serve as a model for reasonable Republican politicians (are there any left?) in the United States to break the Trump-GOP logjam of loyalty to party over country and work for the good of the American people!
4
Can we all just admit that former tv personalities and comics and their armchair politics/leadership is an absolute failure?
20
I wish Republicans here had the same spine to stand up to Trump.
17
I'm baffled by the amount of democratic people that think this is a good move.... Parliament are not working towards the will of the people. The aim of Corbyn is to stop Brexit which simply should not happen. The only job of parliament is to negotiate the terms of Brexit. May had presented a "soft" Brexit which was rejected three times... Now they reject a hard Brexit, yet more evidence to their actual desires.
How a politician cannot understand that to play politics you cannot take any option off the table. Without the option of no-deal all the cards are held by the E.U. What reason for them to negotiate a better deal with the UK??
Please don't compare Boris to Trump, they are very different. Boris is working to secure a deal on a mandate from the people.... And I voted remain BTW
The referendum was advisory and the results were skewed by Leave propaganda.
Under those circumstances (and the catastrophic impacts of either deal or no deal Brexit) the adults need to take control and ensure the UK has a future as something other than a vassal state to the USA.
@justvisiting agreed, but there was and is propaganda from both sides. The argument that leave voters didn't know what they voted for is not backed up by anything and somewhat unfair.
My bet is if there was a second referendum the vote would not change...
Both the United Kingdom and also the United States need to revamp their perverted election mechanisms. Our electoral college led to Trump and the UK parliamentary procedure led to Brexit and Johnson.
Democracy, by its nature, is balanced on a knife's edge, struggling to keep the dark from overcoming the light. When the original constitutional processes lead to this kind of chaos, they must be re-examined and corrected.
4
Poor Boris' King For A Day' Johnson.
Finally, the British have regained their sanity and a descent number Tory MPs have grown a backbone .
It is refreshing to see Politicians put their countries best interest over Party.Republicans in Congress, especially those in the Senate need to take a leaf from the book of their Conservative brothers and sisters in the UK.
The British people deserve better than Johnson, in the same way that we would be better served without Trump.
Today's vote was a great first step in removing Britain from the scourge of populism .
It is likely the next Government will be led by the Liberal Democrats , followed up by a swift Goodbye to Brexit .
5
I hope it’s been made crystal clear to the UK government that if Brexit, however accomplished, damages the Republic of Ireland, the United States would look very unfavorably at the UK for a very long time.
1
At least the Conservatives have party members who stand up their leader. It’s more than I can say about the Republican Party.
9
The British Parliament members have more courage than the United States republican congressman in facing Boris Johnson. Democracy seems more alive there than here. I grieve for what is happening here where elected congressman are afraid to contest a dictatorial president.
8
Those who say that the referendum on Brexit should be honoured, with no second referendum despite so many having seconds thoughts, should consider this:
Would they also say that because Trump was elected in 2016, that the U.S. should not have a second presidential election in 2020 to try to kick him out?
2
If the UK is determined to finalize the transition from global power to little island country, please just do it. I have already taken another trip to England off of my bucket list and substituted Ireland.
3
Not a bad idea, but bear in mind how cheap the UK is becoming as the pound sterling continues its post-referendum fall. A quick visit to England post-Brexit will cost next to nothing, which will be about what it will be worth.
I don't get the whole slowing down of the economy if
Brexit goes through.
Why can't England allow anything from the EU to
pass through Customs as they did before Brexit ?
2
Well first it isn’t England it is the UK.
The rather Weighty after of GATT and WTO.
Unfortunately UK Tories and especially Johnston and his followers keep promoting a WTO leave.
The EU and UK are both keen on Free Trade as opposed to unregulated trade.
This means that the expectation on UK Leave would be a move to GATT tariff rates.
If UK tries to not impose the agreed Tarrif on say French or US wine that would likely mean they have to remove Tarrif on all other countries.
As the UK has very few trade deals with other countries the US for example would not reduce the Chicken Tax.
So you open up your market to everyone without inspections or rules while the EU puts on GATT Tarrif was do everyone else.
You’re right. You don’t get it. Unfortunately, lots of UK citizens don’t get it either.
1
@Janes Moodie
Why doesn't the UK just be like
Hong Kong used to be
as Free Trading as possible ?
1
Now that the public really knows more about the details of leaving the EU, would such a referendum pass again in favor?
Chances are No.
9
The Brits seem to have a more flexible political model to combat crazy leaders. Hope they succeed with it. We will know within the next two months. As for America, we will know in the next fourteen months.
17
Bottom line is a referendum won by 52% is nearly a draw, and its not enough to give solid legitimacy to Brexit. Hopefully an election with throw Tories out of power. A coalition of Labour and Liberal-democrats will bring british people back into common sens, undo the lies that led to this.
8
Britain must recognize that people casted their vote in anger to register their protest over politicians ignoring them. Brexit referendum was hijacked and turned into a national pride issue by some self serving business interests who saw an opportunity to make some quick money. No one voted for no deal brexit. The most sensible thing to do now is to call second referendum on Brexit as Parliament has lost its capability to deal with this matter. Patriotism may be the last refuge of a scoundrel but it is not an excuse for economic and political suicide. No deal Brexit may be the end of Great Britain if Scotland and Northern Ireland choose to stay in European Union.
6
Similar to why people voted for Trump.
Did the DNC learn?
No.
They are shoving Biden, Clinton 2.0, neocon liberal same catastrophe that brought hundreds of millions to the brink, gave us fracking, more fossil fuels and truly obscene levels of income inequality... and yet... they would rather have Trump and keep the system rigged in their favor than allow the change everyone needs, including the environment.
3
It sounds as though the Tories have more courage than our Republican Party does. Very interesting, I’ll be keeping my eye on things in GB.
14
As chaotic as the video seems, it appears the Brits have far more functional discourse than we have in US politics. Their crisis is self-inflicted, but at least it won't create the loss of life and the refugee crisis that our self-inflicted Iraq war created.
Also, Parliament may hold Johnson in check, yet Congress could not manage that for Trump.
8
Isn't it about time for Trump to 'weigh in' on this??
Perhaps he can give Boris a couple tips on deal making.
(HAHAHAHA the laugh emoji hasn't been crafted yet for this one!!)
2
Send in the Brits!
Sad but true. Little England 🏴 prevails. Adam Sutler (nee BoJo) trundles on toward dissolution of the so-called UK. As much as I will welcome an independent 🏴 and a confederate Republic of Ireland 🇮🇪 into the communion of nations, what a horrendous own goal from Tories (whose party died today). Fingermen will be on the streets soon.
1
Alex's (his real name) job is done, he had no plan other than to become PM, now that has been accomplished he can fall back into the policy and moral vacuum from which he crawled, and, on balance the world will be a better place, Hoorah! The shortest period for any British PM ever, Hoorah!
5
At least British legislators have some guts - unlike our lily-livered Senate.
18
Get real. He’s ridiculous. Just like the Majority here has no respect for Trump.
4
Fix it before you Brexit.
7
No, Britain, you can't manage to pull it off: Try as you might, you will never rise to the world's biggest laughingstock -- as the U.S. has become with Trump.
11
All this turmoil in the past three years makes it clear that British voters went to the polls without fully understanding the consequences of leaving the EU. They seem better informed now. So, the best way out of the current stalemate is to have a second referendum instead of snap election.
12
If only our Congress had the guts to stand up to Trump's recklessness this way!
21
If only they’d do it here.
17
I can only dream of "renegade" conservatives wresting control of our destiny away from Trump.
*Sigh*.
22
"The public will have to choose."
In a democracy, that is issued as a warning?!!? Boris, you're more out of touch than I thought.
When a British or American leader resorts to that level of a scare tactic, it is time for that leader to go. .
7
That’s why Hillary lost and Biden will too.
1
Great Britain has universal medical care. I suggest we send all our Republican Senators there for a spinal transplant that would enable them to similarly rebel against trump.
15
I've been saying for two years the only way this ends is a second referendum and UK staying in the EU. Leaving in the first place was ridiculous and I'll conceived, and untenable for the UK if it wants to remain a first world superpower. Even the conservatives in Parliament are coming to their senses.
11
The yes vote on Brexit was won on false advertising. Britain--and the US--are both dealing with an uninformed electorate. Knowing the difference between fact and fiction can mean the difference between democracy and tyranny.
13
While you're snap-electing, why not also re-ask whether to leave the EU in a binding referendum.
Problem solved.
4
If only our Republican members of Congress had as much courage as the MPs in Parliament to counter the eccentricities of our Mr. Trump.
7
Correction:
What is a pro-immigration sign doing at an anti-Brexit protest?
That pretty much sums up what this is all about.
The emerging global open-borders lobby is fueling the anti-Brexit force against the wishes of most ordinary British citizens.
It is the same lobby that is fueling the no-borders movement here in the US against the will of most ordinary Americans.
Ordinary citizens will prevail in the end. They vastly outnumber these few rich deleterious lobbyists.
2
I find it shocking that members of Parliament still think they belong to an institution capable of solving problems. You’ve had three years and all you created was Boris Johnson. Looking at England and the US makes it really easy to argue that “representative” democracy has run its course.
289
@John I disagree what happened today in the UK Parliament was a wonderful example of Democracy in action.
55
@John - So - Russia or China would be a better model?
34
@John The USA are not a direct representative democracy. Neither the UK.
24
Looks like Boris Johnson is on track to be the PM with the shortest tenure in British history. Can't believe that the Brits ruled the world just 70 years ago.
6
Absolutely wonderful. Johnson is certainly brighter than Trump, but at day’s end civilized people who actually care about what’s right, have the last say ... on which denies the lie of nationalism for the sake of what is comprehensively good. Johnson will likely go down in history as PM who “served” least long. The best we can do is 1-term for Trump, our sustaining “clear and present danger.”
9
So the Brits are engaged in a display of the powers of democracy ! Good on them. But to what end exactly ? That I am not so sure about.
This whole Brexit drama has been one of politicians that cannot make up their mind trying to stop Shotgun leaders who have no mind.
Well let us hope that the new elections will bring about a change in leadership who do want stay in the EU. With the likes of Trump, Putin and Modi running amuck, the world can ill afford yet another right wing circus.
After countless colonial rules and two world wars, I like the notion of an unified Europe (even if only superficial) a lot better than one that is not. The world has learned the hard way that leaving significant decision making to solo European powers is not exactly a wise thing to do.
5
A good example of the wisdom of a parliamentary system vs. a congressional one. I would also note that conservatism in Britain and the Commonwealth has a different meaning from 'conservatism' as it has developed in the USA.
5
1. Mr. Johnson became PM with a majority of one.
You can NOT have a viable government with one vote +
2. Mr Johnson consequently hatched a plot (suspend
parliament temporarily) to force a new election - in
October.
3. He hoped to get this showdown after parliament
reconvened , he got his hopes for that dashed
4. Nevertheless, he still gets what he needs and wants:
A new election.
5. Which he quite possibly will win. The "City" aka
London financial business, aka London elite, will
given the choice between Corbyn, a socialist, and
Johnson (educated at Eton and Cambridge , i.e. one
of their own) hold its nose and vote for Johnson
6. How Brexit than evolves is anyone's guess. Mr.
Johnson is just too unpredictable to know.
My personal guess is that it is something that is good for the "City" - and not good for the English working class.
In a tempest, the elites (of which Eton/Cambridge Johnson
is a member) sticks together when the hatches are down.
UK financial services sector is probably one of the areas that will be most impacted by Brexit. Every bank is setting up EU based legal entities to service clients post Brexit. The EU will have no qualms in making sure those entities also bring all the UK jobs as well once we get through Brexit.
The only folks making money on Brexit are those arbitraging the destruction of UK industry or hoping to privatise NHS.
Boris Johnson’s Brexit argument to Parliament tonight was ineffective mumble jumble. Nothing he said was constructive, new or remotely in the interest of the great people of the U.K. It was all about himself and his hubristic acolyte Jacob Rees-Mogg. At one point during the debate, bored with his fellow PMs presentations, Rees-Mogg chose to recline in repose on a bench in a dismissive pose. It captured the contempt Johnson and his followers, specially Rees-Moog have for the voters of the U.K.
Must see TV
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/sep/04/sit-up-caroline-lucas-slams-jacob-rees-moggs-body-language-during-brexit-debate-video
5
Let's hope "Boris" will not succeed and that his "friend" across the Atlantic will go down with him!!!!
7
Putin must be grinning: after all he manipulated the Brexit vote just as he manipulated our election.
11
@Cassandra
And YOU have proof of these manipulations? Did you contact Mueller and his cohorts? Just more delusions!!
@Johnny Although the FBI and the CIA have conclusive evidence, , personally do not, so I suppose you expect an apology.
How can I describe?
He trip and fell over the face down.
1
One can only hope that in the nations where elections actually matter the electorate will stand up and vote these authoritarian would be dictators out. The world we know is literally being submerged, but most of these guys are on the pay roll of those who are responsible.
Start here and Dump Trump!
9
Another bully, but one who did not get his way.
5
Perhaps this is a breath of hope.
6
While I am generally pro EU, one cannot ignore it's massive failures around immigration and added layers of unneeded bureaucracy. Britons had a clear choice in the referendum and chose to leave. The PM negotiated the best deal it could get with the EU and that was voted down. Now a new PM promises to leave no matter what and he is stifled. At some point the parliament has to carry out the will of the people. I am willing to bet that the biggest loser in the next election will be hard core left wing Labor Party under Jeremy Corbyn. He turned a left center majority under Tony Blair to a fringe Marxist party.
2
Interesting comparison happening here in two of the world's leading democracies;
Trump has had his hands on America's throat for over 2 1/2 years and not one institution or group or party has been able to even slow him down.
Boris, on the other hand, has had his boot on Britain's neck for about a month and parliament is already taking steps to eliminate the cretinous malevolent mime. Even Conservative party leaders are joining in the effort.
Sad commentary on America's governance and ability to protect democracy.
Of course we still haven't seen the whole Brexit Boris drama play out, but it's getting very interesting, yes??
7
Stay in the EU already. Enough is Enough. All the wasted energy could have been used to strengthen the Union and iron out the flaws.
8
Between Salvini’s ousting and this recent spasm of wokeness in the British Parliament I’m tempted to say these guys were all willing to follow their sociopathic leaders to the edge of the cliff but not farther, if it meant a complete overthrow of democratic norms. But to be more cynical, they were all willing to wait until horrible damage was inflicted on their country’s government and society, and only now will capitulate when it looked as if they’d lose their jobs and the power that goes with it.
Not sure it’s similar in our own government but we may find out yet.
5
GB should take a lesson from a carpenter: measure twice, cut once.
They took a referendum about an idea, and as others have observed, it squeaked by amid a great deal of manipulation and misinformation. Now they should measure again: Remain v. the deal offered by the EU. If people vote for the EU deal the parliament should take it. If they reject it, then eat humble pie and ask to remain. Let the leavers then craft as specific proposal that can garner widespread popular support.
9
This may be a Pyrrhic victory.
The Tories lead Labiur in the polls by double digits, and have consolidated the Leave vote in the Tory Party, sidelining the Brexit Party, their main rivals. He loses some Remain Tories in Parliament, but gains a lot of Leave voters for the General Election.
By contrast, the Remain vote is spread across multiple parties, and Labour is split. Much of the old Labour heartlands are, in fact, Leave strongholds. Corbyn understands this, but hasn't been able to thread the political needle and please both factions.
This is a trap and Labour are walking right into it.
2
Tories face a dilemma. If they actually say they’re for no deal, the sensible pro-business types will desert them. If they don’t say they want it, Farage will split their vote.
So far, Johnson has been trying to pretend there’s a negotiation so he has cover for no deal to keep the moderates on side. His bluff is being called.
2
It was noted yesterday that Boris Johnson will need the Labour party to approve the snap election. This would be an opportunity to put the questions around Brexit to the public. There should be a non-binding referendum question asking if Britons want a no-fail Brexit or if no deal can be reached to remain in the EU.
Ideally the question of Brexit or not would be asked again now that people see that it's not as easy as it proponents, and certain foreign powers, declared it would be.
1
Brexit is good, and easy to win.
9
British politicians can be more independent because they don't have a Koch Brothers network to primary them if they depart from the party line. Citizens United is the cancer that will ultimately kill us.
14
And you think America is a democracy? Politicians pick the voters (gerrymandering), lobbyists make the laws (citizens united), judges rule on party lines (GOP of course), and now latest ruling in Colorado (electoral college doesn’t have cast votes as desired by the voters), black Americans can be shot at will (stand your ground law), so on.
A revolution led to founding of the country; may be only only a revolution resurrect the democracy. With the country awash in legal and illegal guns and fear of whites becoming a minority in not too distant future, it may not be a far fetched idea.
3
@Herodotus
Duh, maybe because America is a democratic REPUBLIC, not a democracy! Missed US history class when this was taught?
2
I think the question is whether you agree with the concerns he raised not what you call it.
Possibly you are happy with a few billionaires owning SCOTUS, POTUS and Congress.
I’m so envious. Leaders who take a stand and don’t slink their way toward money, power and protecting their own hides.
13
Too bad we can’t have a snap election.
29
It is disingenuous to equate nationalism and right-wing ideology.
Johnson suffered a temporary setback but he will rise form the ashes and trounce the opposition.
Britain became 'Great' in spite of the many fractious regimes of continental Europe with which it fought from the beginning of time. UK can at least continue to uphold its legacy, avoid electing more idiotic mayors and maintain its territorial integrity by exiting the EU.
1
I suggest the David Cameron be consulted before doing anything too drastic.
3
But since Trump likes him, he'll arrange the deal by next week.
1
What’s the difference between British conservatives and American republicans?
One group has spines and one does not
13
Well, 21 out of 300ish do
4
Someone remind me, what's the record for the shortest term of office for a modern PM?
8
Hopefully we will know very soon.
3
"Mr. Johnson also claimed to have made progress in talks with European Union leaders, although his own Brexit secretary, Stephen Barclay, on Monday gave a much less rosy assessment of the state of negotiations."
Did Mr. Johnson lie? He sure sounds like our own moral weakling President who has lied more than any president in the History of the US.
9
All the lies and false promises of the Leave camp are now, like chickens, coming home to roost. The British elite have always seen Brexit as a way to install a hypercapitalistic system virtually free of regulation so that they could enrich themselves undisturbed. They were able to sell it this notion to a bare majority with an unabashedly racist campaign depicting Brexit as the way to keep the brown "other" out of Britain. Just look at how adamant its core supporters are about preferring a "no deal" Brexit to one that might continue to allow freedom of movement! The Brits were actually shocked when the EU told them that a condition of market benefits was freedom of movement, which entails the right of any EU resident to move to, live in, and in certain circumstances access the welfare system of the EU country to which they have moved.
The reality has now come crashing over their heads that they have never had more than three options: pass the deal Mrs. May negotiated; crash out with no deal which would hurt themselves far more than it would hurt the EU; or cancel Brexit altogether. Mr. Johnson apparently wants to create a fourth option by dint of sheer will, but that is fantasy. As he is discovering, the days of Empire when Britain could dictate events are long over.
10
A second referendum is needed. Voters did not understand full consequences of first referendum.
17
Britain's Trump: loud, lying, uninformed. Dangerous.
15
"Mr. Johnson had warned that this would mean a snap general election."
Virtually no one in the U.S. knows what a "snap" general election is.
6
Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all getting what they deserve. They will lead Great Britain into a failed path. Putin along with the help of useful tools like Bannon and trump must be very pleased. Putin couldn't make Russia a world power, so he reduced the strength of the first world through divide and conquer.
11
Good to see there are still legislators in the world with the guts to stand up to insanity.
11
You are not talking about our Republican Party, are your?
1
Of course I am.
1
Basically, Johnson's own party has just told him, in no uncertain terms... to stuff it.
10
Only one thing will put all this Brexit nonsense to rest..... a new referendum.... which this time the popular vote would vote against...... as they now realize they were conned by the very same back office power brokers that conned the US into voting Trump for president.
At lest in Britain.. they get a do over if they stick together in the House of Commons.
10
the hubris of johnson is breathtaking. in what universe did he think that he could get away with his high handed anti-democratic tactics. the elections must be based on holding a second referendum on brexit.
9
My sense is that the public DO want an election AND a new referendum. The Brexeter Tories have made such a total mess of the process triggered by what they said was a" non-binding" referendum that the only option now is to go back to the beginning and start over.
The EU is not going to give in on the Irish backstop no matter what the British government does. I doubt Johnson gives a darn about Northern Ireland one way or the other (most British politicians don't); his major reason for opposing the Irish backstop is that the DUP, who give him his majority, are against it.
With Tories being expelled from the party, even with the DUP, they no longer have a majority. A new election will permit a new government in which the DUP do not hold the reins of power, which will make the backstop less of an issue.
With any luck, a new government will also allow a new referendum, given that the Tories' treating the previous "non-binding" one as an iron-clad mandate is what led to this mess.
It looks like Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg, and their wealthy cronies won't get the UK out of the EU in time to avoid paying their fair share of taxes under the new EU tax laws that will come into force on 1 January, 2020.
11
Yeah! I am not British, but Yeah!
10
Things are getting interesting, however much Boris Johnson is living in times of Trumpian despotism. For any democracy worth it's name, dialogue is of the essence, in this case a tough one for Britain. Let's hope reason and common sense prevail.
8
Surprised NYT hasn't yet reported on how your own Vice-President announced today - in Ireland - that Ireland needs to show 'good faith' to Boris and the UK! It's not going down too well here - nice way to treat your hosts!
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-pence-channels-his-master-s-voice-during-irish-visit-1.4006979
42
Yes; it was a slimy performance by Pence.
9
At least Pence didn't demand transfer of Trump's golf course to US sovereignty. At least not publicly.
1
@gf Incredible how everything concerning the current administration reads like satire.
2
Oh please call a general election Mr. Prime Minister...pretty, pretty please!
9
Johnson is a bomb thrower. History will revile him, just as Donald Trump will be reviled in US history. Thank goodness for the parliamentary system. I wish fervently that we had a similar mechanism to control our out-of-control president.
32
@William O, Beeman
The US has a mechanism called “impeachment”, but there has to be evidence of “high crimes and misdemeanors “ - “out of control” doesn’t quite cut it!
Boris can't even secure the agreement of Conservative members of Parliament no wonder he couldn't negotiate a better withdrawal agreement with the European Union.
Since there is no majority for a way forward the status quo should be preserved (no withdrawal unless a majority agrees on how to withdraw).
The election will be a referendum on a no-deal Brexit, the Prime Minister was right to call it and if the Conservatives win Boris will have his mandate.
I fear that it will be a hung parliament with no member being able to form a new government, perhaps a coalition will be formed with agreement on a technocratic leader such as in Italy. I hope so.
2
I like to imagine that the recent (shortly after Obama's election to the present) rise of nationalism is just a temporary nuisance, sure to fade out permanently after all of the old, white people die off. But, did German Jews think that in the nineteen-thirties as well? It is widely thought that most of the young people of the European Union and the United States have shifted to the left, promising a more progressive future, a stronger stand on environmental issues, and above all hope for any future at all. This is all I can hold onto at this point in history, for left to their own devices Trump, Boris Johnson, and their followers could spell the end of society as we have known it.
16
@Don Clark
Really? The “end of society as we have known it”?
Wow! That’s absolutely delusional!
Bravo for Phillip Lee's moment of glory! Very reminiscent of John McCain's dramatic "thumb's down" vote on repealing Obamacare.
19
Why is Britain so unable to move Brexit forward? It's simple: The vote did not purely reflect British sentiment but rather the influence of Putin who seeks to undermine the EU.
17
@Robert Agree. And Steve Bannon, who played the Brexit game also.
3
In addition to holding a snap election on Oct. 14, there should also be a Brexit revote.
12
This is going to turn into a new season of Game of Thrones. A general election now seems likely but that will almost certainly result in no party having a majority. There will be all sorts of machinations, both during the election campaign and afterwards. I don't think anyone will marry their daughter to the leader of another party but who knows.
3
BoJo was throwing a "Hail-Mary", convinced that the UK is SO valuable to the EU that he could bluff them into caving and appeasing the UK in its departure, because they don't want other nations to leave. Wiser heads realize that the EU fully plans to call Johnson's bluff (May knew this), to make leaving as painful as possible, so that other nations won't be tempted to leave.
Luckily enough MPs have more spine than our GOP Senators and act when the head of the Government is leading them over a cliff, unlike ours who keep pretending that cliff is a magic bridge.
So: Boris Johnson will easily go into the history books as the shortest-term PM in modern history, currently at 40 days.
"Consequently, the Prime Minister with the total shortest period in office was George Canning, whose sole term lasted 119 days from 12 April 1827 until his death on 8 August 1827." -- Wikipedia.
8
If the Remainers, i.e. SDP, win the coming General Election then everyone can ignore the referendum result as Cameron's Folly and get on with life. However, any other result means a no deal Brexit.
1
The Brits have taken an important historical step by standing up to yet another wannabe dictator - Boris Johnson.
In the USA, Moscow Mitch McConnell and his GOP henchmen who placed Trump in office are doing everything possible to prevent any attempts to prosecute Trump for obstruction of justice or even to lessen the impact of constant Trumpian chaos born of ignorance. Republicans tread on the Constitution to safeguard Trump.
Many Conservatives in Britain have demonstrated that they place their country and the key role of their Pariiament ahead of their personal politics.
The Republicans in Congress demonstrate daily that they place greed and the thirst for power above any patriotic considerations.
The Brexit vote and the Trump election were both tragic political events. The Brits seem to have found ways to limit the spread of the disaster. Meanwhile, in the US, Trump goes unchecked.
12
Unlike the Republican Party in the United States, the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom did not simply roll over and accept the questionable impulses of its leader.
There is hope.
23
It's a funny thing about these new "populists": they all seem to find it necessary to undermine democracy and flout the rule of law in order to do "the will of the people."
11
No process, written or unwritten, can prevent destruction by fully self-serving actors, nor can any select those in good faith.
We’re left with what good judgment we can muster.
5
At last, a glimmer of hope that the UK will come to it's senses. Now if the United States could see it's way to re-evaluating the stupid decision it made in 2016, there just may be a future for the English speaking world...But I ain't betting on it.
12
You wonder, who is really fighting for the future of Britain?
One site likes to be like Mr. Corrupt Trump, and they other site is incompetent like the Democrats right now.
Nobody knows the real reason for leaving the EU on the first place.
3
@Peter The Democrats are not incompetent. The bigots in our country are.
4
Rupi Murdoch's right hand man Boris gets called out for the liar he is. Here's hoping his right hand man here in the States, the Lyin Trump, suffers the same fate.
Fascists have no place in the elective offices of Democracies, and cross national tyrants like Murdoch and Putin have no business smashing up the political order of the West.
Rupi and Vlad will just have to held accountable for their actions, and even more basically the taxes they owe civil societies on their hidden away tax havened wealth. How sad for them and theirs that they just might not get away with murder and robbery by pitting one country against another, or the EU against itself.
8
Watching the UK doppelganger push all the buttons to see what happens when he does, is not unlike watching the orange original. Unfortunately for the people trapped inside this circus tent, this is merely a different ring of the same circus. It makes me ill to think it's the same ringmaster (Putin).
6
There is a video on Youtube showing Guy Verhofstadt (ALDE) sipping wine in a Brussel’s backroom and chuckling that Brexit will be reduced to an extension, and another extension, and another in saecula saeculorum.
The only thing more cynical is the British Remainers’ feigned outrage at Johnson’s proroguing of Parliament and the House of Common’s retaliatory undercutting of the Prime Minister.
Johnson is absolutely right. Four days was more than enough time for debate. There was actually no need for the Commons to debate the EU’s offer any longer. They debated it three times and failed to ratify the deal May presented. They need to repeat this sorry performance a fourth time? Any deal Johnson might have wrangled from the EU would only have contained either an abandonment of the backstop or some minor tweak to it. Such an amendment could be digested, cogitated and voted on in half a day, if that.
Parliament & its Speaker were just chasing after outrage as preliminary to completely undercutting Johnson’s hardline bluff with the EU.
It would be unfair to say that the rebels in the House played into Verhofstadt’s hands; they were his active accomplices. They strangled Johnson's baby in the crib.
We shall now see if the Brexit party has the votes. If they do, the Remainers will be forced to leave… their seats.
3
The next chapter to add to any appended version of John Kennedy's "Profiles in Courage" should call out what the British Parliament did tonight. Sadly, there won't be a chapter highlighting the Republicans standing up to Trump after his crazy August of Rage.
12
This circus makes US politics looks sane.
If it weren’t for all the innocent victims, karma would require that Boris Johnson be made to preside over the chaos of a hard Brexit, for which Britain is utterly unprepared. It would finish him, which is what he deserves.
8
This is exactly why there is check and balances in a democracy, otherwise you get a dictator who does what is best for his or her interest and of course for their cronies. Don't forget to vote in 14 months. It's kinda important.
13
What a sad state for world affairs lately.
As an American, and no older than a middle-aged one at that, I grew up believing that Britain -- or at least the British government and British establishment -- would always be a bulwark of steady stability and reasoned thought: a sensible older uncle we could depend on for rationality and measured action, even when we, the impulsive Americans, did what could be described in today's lingo as "random stuff."
My opinion may have been -- probably was -- rose-colored and overly idealistic even then, but this mess now! What on earth has become of the UK? And if even they can't hold it together, what hope is there for the rest of us out here in this increasingly unhinged world?
7
A number of comments have suggested common sense will prevail in the event of a rerun of the referendum. Sadly, that is an assumption that will likely prove flawed if tested. Looking across the democratic landscape, people are dejected and disillusioned resulting in the rise of scapegoat politics. US, UK, Brazil, Germany - all are falling victim (to varying degrees) to this disease. We cannot simply assume common sense and rationality will return in a highly emotive and charged environment.
History suggests, it is the emergence of a common enemy that will unite disparate sections of parliament and society at large. Last time that was the rise of fascism. Who knows what that might be today but worth reflecting, Churchill, a former rebel and outcast of the Conservatives who became its and the nation's eventual saviour.
5
What nonsense. Britons had it good being part of the EU and then they went and botched it all up by voting to leave the EU. Boris is getting trounced by the House just as May experienced. The nation is deeply divided and the only way to get out of the mess they are in is to have another general Brexit vote.
The original vote was all about immigration. The elderly, white, poor, and uneducated don't want immigrants coming to their country. They live in fear of being overtaken by black people. Pretty much like the vote in the U.S. for Trump. Boris stoked those fears and now he must either put up or shut up.
Well, they made their bed, now they have to lay in it. It's not going to end well for Britons. Or Americans, for that matter.
15
@Lew. Let us know when Canada revises it’s strict immigration policy.
2
Just as a point of basic information, for anyone who is following such activity: on blog threads, the anti-western democracy trolls and bots are very strongly FOR a no-deal Brexit.
12
I hope republicans here , would do the same ti Trump. He went to far!!
2
That didn't take very long did it?
2
Election,debate, debate, change leaders, then call for another election. What on earth is going on in Britain? They're running around like headless chickens over there.
4
Look! Representatives standing up to the government when they’re being ridiculous.
It seems there’s a lesson in duty there for those who will listen!
5
Boris Johnson had a good classical education. He should have remembered his Sophocles that Nemesis follows Hubris.
Must have slept late that day.
13
Good for them. Now if only the US Congress would do the same to Donald Trump
21
@reality check. Why?
So there were enough responsible people in the legislature to keep a would be dictator in check. What a concept - GOP take note.
15
Imagine the House GOP sending rebel members over to the Democrats then calling for a general election. Every British PM who called for an election to consolidate his or her own power found it did just the opposite. It's so quintessentially British, like Alice falling into the rabbit hole.
2
@John Bockman. Imagine Independents voting like Democrats.
When nationalism go on the ascend, a country can descend into chaos and confusion.
2
British people will show their true colors. The real question is does UK want immigration from other Euro zone countries or not ? The answer earlier was "No". It would take a lot to change that.
Germans must be laughing.
2
Conservative rebels, a group of renegade lawmakers willing to risk their careers to defy their newly chosen leader, Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
So different than American congressmen who would never risk their careers for anything and lack all morals and ethics. Americans politicians would never put their country or their constituents above their careers.
19
@✅TLS✅ Why do you think they’re risking their careers?
They’re being ejected from the parliamentary party and won’t be allowed to stand as Conservatives again.
2
Just months past UK voted for Johnson their PM, a man that said the people voted for Brexit and so be it. He told the EU to make it work, be reasonable, not obstinate with their cozy self full filling rules and stuffy attitude they ruled that part of world and the UK will listen or go away. They killed May's effort by snubbing her. Three years basically worthless. Merkel was not the sweet, kind, woman from East Germany she pretended to be. I've always said another vote is needed. Why? Because the first one was tainted with charges the people weren't informed of reality about what Brexit meant. Maybe votes were based more on the heart than on the brain. Ok, now let us see what will happen with the next vote. Hopefully Parliament will listen and do the job they were voted to do: listen to the people. They have wasted 3 years doing just the opposite.
2
Finally, a little rationality and doing the right thing for democracy! in the US, the GOP have let Trump get away with doing anything he wants.
That said, all this will do is keep kicking the decision further down the road, because the pro-Brexit camp want to have their cake and eat it too, which won't happen.
3
The entire Brexit debate in the UK needs a paradigm shift to get past the long and painful stalemate. Changing PMs is cosmetic. Nothing will do but a general election.
The EU should also advise, no further extension. The inept British politicians determining the contours of Brexit would only continue dithering. Time to fish or cut bait.
7
Democracy was already exercised in the UK.
Remain lost.
5
Charles, I don't remember where on the ballot it gave a choice between a "no-deal" Brexit or a negotiated one. Were the voters aware of the effect it would have on commerce in Ireland and those two constituencies relationship with the EU not to mention whether Scotland may bolt from the UK?
10
@Charles Okay, but 'leave without a deal' did not win either. In fact, the language by Brexiters before the referendum made a deal central to the promise of leaving the EU. Britons were told they would get a killer deal out of the EU -- including, I would add, a refund of £350 million promised by the man who is now Prime Minister.
8
@jonathan
Please use your favourite internet search engine to locate the recent Reuters article entitled "More Britons support 'Brexit by any means' than oppose it, poll shows"
1
With Scotland and Northern Ireland threatening secession from the British Union so they can stay in the EU, with another DJT in-charge of Parliament, with the narrowest of the voting citizens wanting to leave the EU, I ask myself, why? Of course, I ask myself why America's dysfunctional political parties gave us the bizarre and intolerable cWHr. Have all democracies lost all common sense? Will they suddenly wake up tomorrow and pull us out of these nightmares? Unfortunately, probably not.
5
@Angelseam. Tell us what they will use for currency.
Brexit encountering reality has been compared to vampires encountering sunlight.
Every time Brexit gets to a stage where the rubber hits the road, it becomes clear that the tires are flat, the drivers is drunk, and what fuel there is is on fire. The idea really only exists as a pipe dream that is kept safe from the realities it needs to confront.
The USA and the UK seem like they're competing to hold on to jingoistic notions that crumble on meeting reality (Build A Wall, Leave The EU). I don't think it's conspiracy to think that that's been encouraged in both places by Russia.
12
Actual politics aside, this is such a good, clear, descriptive, and crystallizing article. I finally understand a bunch of stuff that has been a bit hard to grok.
4
Imagine, living in a country with an electorate that is willing to stand up to Russia's influence on their election.
6
I hope the next election includes safeguards from foreign interference, or else Putin will achieve whatever outcome he desires (as he did with the original Brexit vote as well as Trump’s “victory”).
4
Bravo! Prediction: After they stop yammering, there wll be another referendum. And the UK will stay in the EU. "Lord willing and the creeks don't rise."
3
Few people vote for logic; most vote for emotion. Brexit was an example of this.
5
If Johnson really believed in himself his promised snap election would include a new national referendum on Brexit. But he knows it wouldn't pass this time.
3
The beauty of a Parliamentary Democracy in action.
6
It is funny that old people vote and impact is on the young people who have to live with that.
4
Striking how the takeover of the Republican Party by Trump loyalists is similar to the takeover of the Conservative Party by the Johnson brexiteers. Will the real conservative Republicans learn a lesson from their cousins in the UK and reasserts themselves?
I am not holding my breath.
9
The prorogation of Parliament—the stopping of all business, ongoing legislation, committee meetings, statutory instruments—is pure mischief on Boris Johnson's part.
There is now no time for the opposition to debate the government's programmes. All current business, not only Brexit, but also an important domestic violence bill, will be history, when the next session of parliament comes into being.
The people are furious, as all the continued mass demonstrations throughout Britain (which seem to be under-reported here) demonstrate.
One problem is that there is no separation of powers between the executive and the legislative in the House of Commons. And this situation, in which the Prime Minister, can stop business in order to shut down debate is both autocratic and dictatorial.
Is it perhaps time for a proper written Constitution?
7
I am not really sure that the voters in the UK understood the ramifications of the original Brexit vote three years ago. It now seems that these have finally hit home and due to the razor-thin majority for Brexit in that election there needs to be a do-over with a 2/3rds majority required before any Brexit actions continue or are discontinued. I would hate to see the UK broken up into three parts as Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain in the EU and may vote for independence to maintain the EU status quo.
6
@Indy1
What is so terrible about having the UK broken up? The Scots, Irish and the Welsh all speak different languages, have different cultural traditions and different economies. They have every right to self determination outside of Westminster just as much as anyone else.
Was anyone in the West crying about the breakup of the Balkan states? No, it was considered a great exercise in democracy, where different people would have a voice.
1
I still don't understand why Britain is pursuing Brexit at all-- if the government simply called for another referendum, everything that's happened since the first (extremely narrow!) one suggests that the idea of leaving the EU would now be rightly and soundly voted down, crisis averted, game over. Why does no one have the courage to do this--to save Britain, to save Europe? Our only way forward on this Earth is TOGETHER!
10
@EA I wonder if it's a referendum security issue?
It is time for the UK to have another plebiscite on Brexit. Chances are very good not only will there be a better turn out, but the majority will vote to "Stay". Certainly in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Second, Labour needs to get their act together and choose another party leader. Someone who isn't give voters a choice of "two evils". The US had that choice, we ended up with Trump. The UK also had this choice, and eventually ended of with Johnson.
At least, the UK, can call elections to get rid of Johnson, and his minority government. The US we are stuck until January, 2021.
Finally, between Trump, and his tariffs, the UK with Brexit, and China with protectionism, combined, if not taken care of, could create a financial crisis that rivals the one 11 years ago.
4
@Nick Metrowsky
I wonder if is time to try to persuade David Milliband to return to the UK and take over leadership of the Labour Party?
At least the government in Great Britain works, however crazy it seems. Too bad our own Congressional Republicans won’t stand up to King Donald.
22
About time. There should be a reckoning and a collapse of the Conservative government (if it happens) for promoting something as daft as Brexit, and doubly so for allowing a literally Union busting plebiscite (as in the union of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland) to be decided by a simple majority after an election campaign full of lies, and that did not count the voices of many British citizens living in the EU or elsewhere (whose lives and freedom of movement will be impacted by a Brexit that they could not vote against). It's indeed ridiculous that it's taken so long to get to this point, at the last hour before they break their nation and their standing in the world as a result of sheer stupidity and stubborn follow through.
4
The British are displaying the conviction that Nation is above Party. No wonder which part one joins, the idea is to serve the NATION, guides my the commonly held views of the majority membership.
In America the Party is the ROUTE to Richness. For example, if a Republican defies Trump, Trump and fellow opportunists will open their pockets to get the person pushed out of politics. The guiding principle is that of
3
“I don’t want an election, the public don’t want an election, but if the House votes for this bill tomorrow, the public will have to choose who goes to Brussels on Oct. 17 to sort this out and take this country forward,” Mr. Johnson said, referring to the next European Union summit.
Eww, the debasing of the Queen's language, and in open parliamentary session no less. To the esteemed prime minister, that properly would be phrased "the public doesn't want an election."
2
In British English usage, “public” is considered a plural mass noun, hence the “don’t want” rather than “doesn’t want” as would be correct in US usage.
1
@Rubia Tontona Leave it to the British to defile their own language.
1
@Dan88 "The public don't want an election" is correct British English. "Public" is a plural mass noun there, and verbs used with it are conjugated thusly.
Boris Johnson is a lot of things, but a poor speaker of British English is not among them.
2
So allowing the public to vote is seen as an extreme final measure and a threat by Mr Johnson? He is similar to Trump.
They should do the vote they always should have done. Ask if people want no Brexit, no deal Brexit, or Mays Brexit. No simple question that hides the real costs, a true question with the tradeoffs spelled out.
6
If only conservatives in our Congress were as bold and committed to traditions of good government as the Conservatives who chose to block Johnson's power play.
22
I’m just wondering how many times the handlers have tried to explain this thing to Trump.
21
This is the day the Conservative Party dies
Expelling 21 sitting MPs from their party
After 25 years of internal arguments, the end is near
4
At least the racist, crack pot dictators of the 19th and 20th centuries were not as hamfisted in their evil as Trump and Johnson are: they have zero real intelligence and therefore zero finesse. What reason, based on reality and not fantasy, does Boris Johnson and his ilk have for Britain NEEDING to leave Europe? None, because he created Brexit by feeding lies to the nation's frustrated masses. The only thing that can save that nation now is the rising up of the un-duped voters: which America should also do in 2020 to rid ourselves of our national nightmare Donald Trump.
12
@Keely
Actually, a world nightmare. He is devastating Brazil as well, by supporting a band of lunatics here. Please, help us !!
3
The UK couldn't have timed this lesson in Democracy At Work better, and our politicians need to pay attention and find inspiration. And we, the people, need to take to the streets and tell them what we think and need and want.
5
Would that our congressmen had the intestinal fortitude to stand up to an insane leader that the British have shown.
13
Hats off to the UK for refusing to enable a pathetic Trump Mini-me, ignoring his threats and doing what their consciences demanded and what their constituents voted for.
Floundering Boris is now facing the prospect of a snap general election having de-selected twenty-one of his surest bets as Conservative returning MP's. Strategy? Let me laugh a little.
Nothing for it now but for Boris to get into bed with Farage and the crazy Brexiteers. The Conservative Party as we knew it is all but finished.
Sic transit Gloria Mundi!
14
Everyone is applauding the British Parliament, but... the same people who reject a hard Brexit today turned down May's negotiated (i.e. soft) Brexit agreement 3 times over. The EU has repeatedly said what May proposed is what's on offer and nothing more.
So it seems that progress was made today but there's still some cakeism out there, as in the British illusion that the EU will agree to a deal that partially unbundles its four freedoms (free movement of goods, capital, services, and labor).
257
@Anne What the EU actually said was that they weren't prepared to move on the northern Ireland backstop, which was necessary because May was pursuing a no customs union, no single market Brexit, and which was projected to be hugely damaging economically for the UK in lost trade. The EU were and are still very much open to Corbyn's deal, which keeps the customs union and aligns with the single market.
21
@Anne The EU wouldn’t have given Britain more time if that was the only deal that could be agreed to (read between the lines) it is well aware that that the May deal can’t be passed.
The EU is indicating to Britain that any deal would have to be fundamentally similar to the deal negotiated by May.
It’s not for Parliament to roll over, it’s for the Executive branch of government to negotiate and present a deal to Parliament that can pass and the EU can agree to. This is doable. Not only that, I’m sure civil servants have drawn up the options.
A prime minister that puts Britain ahead of the conservatives party would present a deal that could command the support of the House.
13
@Anne
I don't think so - the idea of No Brexit at all is a valid option, and it just made some significant progress.
23
Will Boris be the Shortest tenured PM in modern English history?
17
Let’s hope so.
2
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/world/europe/boris-johnson-uk-prime-minister.html
W in the Middle
NY State
July 23
All he has to do is use the same sort of voting process that was just used to winnow his opponents...
Put the question to the PMs:
Which of the three options do you detest the most?
1. No-deal exit
2. May's exit deal
3. No exit
Then, schedule a second referendum, to choose between the two remaining options...
2
Alas poor Boris! A career as Prime Minister, over before it began!
18
Score one for the Brits- it took less than a month for them to neutralize their narcissistic autocrat. Would that the US political class had the will and ability to stand up to their bully who has been able to get away with everything every day for almost three long years.
69
Johnson and the DUP will just have to accept that to get a Brexit deal to their liking they'll have to cede Ulster to Ireland (where it belongs). Of course, that will leave the DUP without a constituency...
4
@Larry McCallum
And increased violence in Ireland
1
The only person who suceeds in Brexit of any kind is Vladimir Putin. It is why Putin orchestrated and pushed for Brexit. Why help Putin? Now that the people can see the Brexit vote was based on lies have another referendum on it.
3
This is good news! A “no deal Brexit” would be a disaster. It is a sad time in British history. The original vote was flawed with misinformation and xenophobia. I’m sure if there was another vote it be be reversed 70% to 30%. I’d like to see a redo or at least a deal that is rational for England, Scotland, and Ireland.
571
@Frank w Allen
And Wales. Don't forget Wales.
39
@Frank w Allen From what I've read, a rerun of the referendum would tip the other way but not massively.
1
@Frank w Allen
More than casual "misinformation." Johnson acknowledged that the figures he presented to Brits as the price GB paid to be in the EU was a total fiction.
Another vote on remaining in the EU seems to be the only solution. But will the members of Parliament -- who soundly rejected the only possible and agreed-to plan for a "soft" Brexit -- support this?
1
Bravo England! If only republicans would stand up to trump like this.
25
I understand more than most about economics and international trade (degrees and experience). Just as the Right exaggerated (lied) the need for Brexit and secured a vote, the opposition (and certainly the media) are exaggerating the impact of completing the Brexit process. As in the US, it's incredibly difficult to find rational, objective news/facts on important issues.
3
@David "I understand more than most about economics and international trade " OF COURSE. THAT'S WHAT THE DONALD SAYS, TOO.
5
I can say this because I'm confident GB can solve their own problems... It's nice to have a distraction from our own dumpster-trash-fire government. I think we gained some members of Congress in the last election that were more concerned about solving problems than pandering to the fringes of their respective parties. I only hope the trend continues as a backlash to Trump and the fringes on both sides. I'm a moderate never-Trump Republican from a Red state who strongly supports Buttigieg, even though I'm afraid the US electorate is too ignorant (not stupid) to do the same.
3
The fall of Boris Johnson couldn't happen to a more deserving person. This crude buffoon has no clothes and Parliament has called him to account.
It's a shame our gutless wonders in the GOP haven't the same spine as their British counterparts. They have it in their power to bring the world back into some semblance of sanity, but they're so afraid their political futures are in in the hands of a small number of the most reprehensible among us that they'll put their own sorry selves before their duty to the nation.
31
In an election, Corbyn should promise a referendum on Brexit with a clear consequence for “yes”.
If people vote “no” he could promise to stabilize things with the EU and call an election in a year.
Everyone is happy and it’s the only way he’ll be PM.
166
@tk He's recently come off the fence and said Labour will back a referendum on any deal, including one they negotiate themselves, with Remain on the ballot. Is that what you mean?
9
@tk They've talked about a second referendum for years. That's a simplistic assumption.
1
@tk It is funny that an opposition leader does not know what his role is in the Parliamentary democracy. Time for someone to form a new party which promises to hold a second referendum on Brexit.
5
Nice to see a western legislature standing up for constitutional and democratic norms. Take note Congress.
Nice to see members of a Conservative party put country over party and thwart the excesses of an errant executive. Take note GOP.
19
I'm betting on another strategy. I think Boris knows that the only victory is on vacating the P.M.'s office before brexit. Have elections. Have a labor victory and have them deal with the mess that ukip created with its lies. That way a year from now he can blame labor for either betraying the will of the english people or capitulating to the diktat of the E.U. . What he needs to do is delay, delay , delay... sound familiar?
2
Remember that Brexit happened because the turnout was not that great. Remember that Trump became president because the turnout was not that great.
No matter what your political views are, show up for each and every election, whether for city council or for President. The only way you throw your vote away is to stay away.
I would rather see “my” candidate lose 52-48 with 95 turnout than lose 52-48 with a 70 percent turnout.
12
And this next time DT will win because turnout shall be great.
1
I don't understand. Does Boris Johnson also have to run in a general election? Or, all the members of the parliament? Please explain.
1
@Saba
We don't elect a Prime Minister the way you elect a President and the two houses of the judiciary.
Political parties in the UK appoint a leader who will become the Prime Minister if that party gains a majority of seats in the Houses of Parliament, either outright or in coalition with another party. If that Prime Minster resigns or is ousted, the party in government picks a replacement so we don't directly elect a PM. We do know who it's going to be, at least for a while!
To win a seat, you must win the election in a constituency - a voting subdivision - and this includes the person who eventually become the Prime Minister.
If Boris Johnson lost his re-election, the Conservative Party would have to appoint a new leader. In reality, senior government and opposition figures stand in very safe seats.
These MPs enter the House of Commons.
Our second house, the House of Lords, is completely unelected and acts as a check against reckless law-making in the Commons.
This is all the 'unwritten' stuff you may have heard about. It's served us reasonably well but Johnson has just trampled on convention, kicked it to the kerbside and tried to act like a president with his own executive powers.
He has none. Our head of state and the armed forces is the Queen and, on paper, she has the power to slap down governments but, in reality, her powers are ceremonial. Still, it does prevent a government from turning its own armed forces on the population should they feel a need...!
3
Basically all
In the Westminster system, the party that wins the most "seats" typically forms government. Each "seat" is an electoral district represented by a Member of Parliament (MP). The Prime Minister is the leader of the party that wins the most seats, and he or she is also a Member of Parliament for his or her respective electoral district. Likewise, to have a presence in Parliament, each party leader of opposition parties must win their respective seat. Cabinet ministers are also chosen mostly from the House of Common sitting MPs.
1
This has destroyed any last strands of confidence ordinary voters, especially outside the London bubble, have in politicians and will end up seeing the growth of the Brexit Party led by true British Trumpian Nigel Farage. Boris is seen in that light by naive leftists but he is moderate enough to win elections as major of London.
Now Farage will be the only hope for British independence from an increasingly authoritarian and unelected EU commission who now rules Europe, and British parliament. This small cabal in Brussels will grow in dictatorial power as Europe morphs back to dictatorship as it was most of its history before it was liberated by the US and Commonwealth solders in WW2.
Of course the Russians had nothing to do with WW2. Stalingrad never happened. America loves to write that out of the history books and talk about d-day.
The nationalist salesman promised the sky's the limit! Evidently, not so! Just ask May.
There should be a full detail of what a Brexit looks like regarding the exchange, jobs, trade and general economy. Otherwise, no one knows exactly what the future looks like.
Then, give Britain's, Scotland's and Ireland's voters the opportunity to vote on the details of the "deal."
At least May had three deals. Boris has none.
Boris and trump are cut from the same Russian cloth. Tear everything apart, create chaos and watch them spin.
5
Good for Parliament! So different from our Congress who are letting Trump destroy the World without fighting back!!
2
Perhaps US senators could take note of what can happen when a legislative body stands up to a madman leader, instead of blindly following it. And this in a county, no less, worth the parliamentary system where the members of the leaders party are not supposed to vote against it.
2
The Brits are in a worse mess than us. If an election is called they have Jeremy Corbin or Boris Johnson. Both are blechhhh
At least we will have an easier choice here - although I have favorites (Michael Bennet or Elizabeth Warren), I will be delighted to pull the lever for any Democrat.
1
Imagine that! Conservative politicians standing up to their party leader, even risking their career in doing so. That America's conservative politicians had as much spine. Are you listening, Republicans?
7
For this Boris Johnson individual to risk taking the U.K. out of the EU without a departure agreement, and then expecting to forge some sort of deal with the likes of DJT to address the resulting fiscal wreckage... is the heights of recklessly naive folly.
8
Brexit was built upon a foundation of lies most of which have since been laid bare. Brexit today bears scant resemblance to the discussion and vote of 2016. Now voters are more aware of the stakes involved. It is harder today to ply them with cynical prevarication.
By calling the current effort to stop a no-deal Brexit "Corbyn's surrender bill," Boris Johnson is depicting his opponents as traitors. This is what autocrats do; conflate political opposition to their nostrums as sedition against the State. The tactic is Donald Trump blowing smokescreens in an upper class British accent with just enough Latin thrown in to sound "eddikated."
Lost in the sound and fury of the current "deal or no-deal" food fight is the sober call for a second referendum. Under today's circumstances, this is the most democratic way forward: Britons voting on an issue whose real consequences are robustly debated as distinct from the fabulist claims that preceded the first referendum.
2
It would be great if the US had a "referendum" option if, once every 250 years, we make a huge mistake.
1
It's always the same with those guys: they don't know how to obtain deals AT ALL.
Trump is THE perfect example of this.
5
Johnson sounds like a trump saying he’s close to a deal on tariffs with China. Two disingenuous leaders that don’t deserve their titles. We can only hope the the UK can find its footing and progress through this quagmire to a solution that will benefit both themselves and the EU.
2
Boris will shortly get hoisted by his own petard. Unlike earlier, the average citizen over there now knows well the many drawbacks of any Brexit.
This is Britain's last chance to avoid an economic catastrophe. Sanity will prevail over British arrogance.
1
Calculated risk by Boris as he doesn't see anyone who can beat him in a general election. He may be right. The problem is, the people don't want a vote on a prime minister, they want another vote on Brexit...and they aren't going to get it.
3
Let's not be too optimistic but that might be a sign of reversal for more than Brexit.
6
Having a quick election may be one way to resolve the Brexit impasse, but only if the voting outcome points clearly in one direction. Johnson might have carried the day in trying to cow fellow Tories to hew to his line if there had been any credible evidence that a revised EU deal was actually hanging in the balance. But everyone knew that was an empty bluff.
Johnson's big hope for electoral victory is a wager that Corbyn will prove to be even less popular than he is. But whether unease over Corbyn actually benefits BoJo is unclear. This could turn out to be the Liberal Democrats' great opportunity to recapture relevance.
3
One sure result of a no deal Brexit will be 100,000s of Brits, mostly pensioners, will be forced to return to Great Britain, and 1000s of European workers will have to leave G. B. In the south of Spain alone 400,000 Brits have lived permanently for years. It seems like a poor bargain; G. B. will gain many retirees and lose productive workers.
12
As I’ve been following this closely for three years as an expat living in the US, I know not to get excited by victories, no matter how large they seem at the time. If the leader of the opposition was better liked and, indeed, a actively anti-Brexit, I think we could safely say that this ordeal would be stopped by a general election. Alas, this is not the case and therefore whatever happens next will likely be as dramatic and possibly equally as damaging to British and by extension Western democracy.
7
It seems a natural, at this stage, that the voices of the people of Great Britain should be heard. The facts are in, from both sides of this debate.
So why not a quick referendum vote?
The vote will not carry out the decision, parliament will.
5
21 brave MP's may have saved Democracy in the UK from an attempted coup by the bunch of selfish maniacs currently running the country against the will of the people. I believe history will honour them, as with the 80 French lawmakers who refused to vote the full powers to Maréchal Petain on July 10th, 1940.
12
How is democracy saved? It has been further eroded. When you break down the referendum result, as the SNP like to do, you can see on a seat basis, that the vote to leave the EU has a large majority of those seats.
If democracy applied, and elected MP’s voted according to the wishes of the people they represent, then Brexit will have already been concluded. Sadly the politicians, no doubt because of their own beliefs have failed to provide that of which they were advised to do.
Just as the referendum vote wasn’t for no deal, it also wasn’t for deal, it simply asked for ‘leave the EU’.
Much has also been made of Boris Johnson not being a leader with a public mandate, true. But that could be said if Gordon Brown.
The vote to leave the EU was based on misinformation and lies. Now that it's clear that leaving without a deal will be a disaster for the UK, a new referendum must be called. To do that, new elections must be held. It's as simple as that.
1
Ha! This ruthless, unmoored Q-Tip finally got his comeuppance.
To the tories who stood up to pull their country back from the brink of the abyss, I can only say I wish our Congress had that kind of spine.
Well done.
18
Boris is a bully in the Trumpian mold. At least the Brits were 'awoke' enough and moral enough and courageous enough to stand up to him, not to fall on their knees in the face of false claims. Good riddance to him.
11
He’s not going anywhere. The globe democracy is in big crises. The right wingers became extremely ignorant, the results ...BoJo ,Trump..is very sad.
7
Have you no sense of decency, Republicans, at long last ? Have you left no sense of decency ?
20
Opposition moves to avoid a no-deal Brexit will not undermine the government's negotiations stance because it never had one. Brussels reacted with bewilderment today when Johnson said they've been making good progress recently, since there has been no progress at all. They have yet to receive even an initial proposal. Johnson's plan all along was to crash out with no deal, and negotiations were purely a fig-leaf. If you persist in bluffing eventually people will stop taking you seriously, and that has now happened in London.
4
Dump these populist wanna be dictators insatlled with help of Putin who wants a weakened European Union and the USA break with its allies . Trump wants to ally himself with Putin and Kim as he wants to rule USA as a dictator like them. Trump's second term will be a dictatorship that is why the tanks were at his July 4th rally. Johnson is another populist partner looking to be a dictator.
9
Mr. Johnson thinks he needs a hard Brexit should be on the table because as much as it would decimate Britain, it might also hurt the EU a bit.
I suppose he could also ram a bus with a compact car. Sure, he’d likely kill himself and destroy his car, but the bus would get a dent.
11
Johnson’s moves are wholly politically motivated. He wants to win an election and secure a greater majority by sewing the seeds of panic and confusion. This chaos in the house isn’t really about Brexit, it’s about Boris. But then again, he’s a politician. What do you expect?
It seems like he was blindsided by a revolt in the house, but careful: more powerful than another referendum is being given a clear mandate. He’s banking on the idea that a majority of Britons might favour nationalism and tribalism over economic common sense. In this case, I sincerely hope his own moral bankruptcy shows through, and this underhanded power grab fails.
539
@ASnell
Here's the thing - it's a democracy - if he gets his mandate saying that the majority of the Britons, with a decent view of the realities of Brexit, choose Brexit - then that is the right thing to do.
Everything I see suggests that he's wrong, that most don't want Brexit - but if he was right, then that would be what should be done.
12
@ASnell - what if Bojo is wrong? And all votes go against him? It could happen.
1
@SusanStoHelit
Unfortunately, a general election would not give a democratic result on Brexit as many view Corbyn as an existential economic threat even bigger as a Brexit. In other words, choosing between two evils and this is what Boris is betting on. It has been figured out and parliament will likely not agree to an election before an extension has been requested, which Boris will refuse to do. There will be more showdowns in the coming days!
1
Moscow Mitch would never permit such a democratic move.
21
The days of the right wing dictator are coming to an end. Johnson can't call a snap election unless he gets 2/3 of the house to agree since there about when an election date is like here in Canada he does not have the votes even if he bribes the racist Unionists with more money. The wheels for him and Trump are starting to come up. Jim Trautman
5
This election ought to be a snap, defeat Johnson.
6
Is it not extraordinary, that the prime minister needs a two-thirds majority just to secure a snap election, and yet something as momentous as leaving the EU could be decided by a simple majority of 48% to 52%, with confirmed, demonstrable lying on the leave side to boot?
1393
@Rick The tyranny of the majority...There are some issues so important that you should have something other than a simple majority decision. Same here, that's why in spite of a lot of whining from the left, that the electoral college serves a valid purpose imo...But clearly no system is perfect.
5
@Rick thank you. well said.
27
@Rick It's worse than just the lies about windfalls for the NHS. The Leavers never asked for a vote on leaving without a deal. So now the biggest lie of them all - that leaving without a deal is what democratic rule requires - is being shamelessly peddled by your shameless PM.
No wonder he's pals with our shameless POTUS.
112
The U.K. stands up and hits back at an autocrat. Is Mitch McConnell paying attention to any of this? Are his Kentuckians?
25
Good for the Parliament.
Now if only our congress would defy trump and get rid of him we might be able to get back on course again and save our once great country.
12
Hubris brings down the clown but deeply shakes the foundation of the nation. Granted, I’m not British and may not truly grasp the intricacies of the conundrum, but wouldn’t elections be a good thing? They would, once and for all allow the British electorate to vote for a parliament that either would support or not support Brexit with all of the electorate fully understanding the magnitude of the changes Brexit would entail. Who knows if Brexit would be a good or a bad thing, but at least this time around, the public has had two plus years to study, talk about and appreciate the ramifications. Where is the harm in going back to the ballot box and expressing a voice?
7
I am appalled that June 23, 2016 was the Brexit withdrawal date and now three years later the British Parliament up against a hard October 31st deadline is just talking about stopping a no deal Brexit. Its hard to believe that the Parliament of the Country has done this: It seems like the closest thing to mass suicide the country might suffer. Close of starting a nuclear war, this is the worst thing Parliament probably could do to exit from the EU without coming up with even a proposal in three plus years. Democracy in the EU, England and the U.K. has been suicidal of late and the World Economy Held together by authoritarian China according to Adam Tooze. If the performance of democratic governments is typified by the EU, the UK, and the USA then the future is likely to be world wide authoritarianism. This is a sad and gloomy but not unlikely conclusion.
2
@Michael Cohen It was not the job of Parliament to come up with a Brexit deal; it was the job of the PM, Teresa May. It was the job of Parliament to decide on the deal she proposed; they did decide; they decided "no".
5
@Michael Cohen You know, they had to withdraw while abiding EU procedures and they COULDN'T leave until after Article 50 was triggered. They were supposed to leave last March. So no, it hasn't been delayed 3 years.
Like it or not...there is some life left in the british democracy and apparently none here in the USA. It is time for anyone - regardless if from the right or the left - to standup and defend the principles the country was built and there is simply no space for authoritarian ideas that seem to spin around in the heads of some current "leaders" in the White House. Watch closely what happens with Johnson as it will be the blueprint for the fallout of the Trump presidency: Tyrants - wannabe or real ones - never end well and neither do their enablers. It is always the common people who will stand up at the end and press the "reset" button through their votes and that's definite better for any country. The power belongs to the people and not a handful of "oligarchs in training".
9
To our British cousins: It's time to admit that Brexit is a failure and a huge waste of time and money. Hold another vote, requiring a clearly defined explanation of the proposed Brexit agreement. I believe the people have had enough of this foolish chaos and will vote it down. On balance, participation in the EU is a good thing for the country, and the majority now recognizes that fact.
1073
@Randomonium No, another vote is utterly reckless. What if Brexit wins again, you are in the same mess they are in today.
The problem is not the outcome of the vote but the fact that there is no agreement on what Brexit means. Any new referendum has to clarify this.
I propose two referendums: One to engage in a new negotiation with the EU with a new time limit. After negotiations are done, there is a second referendum to vote on whether to accepted the negotiated deal or not. If the negotiated deal is voted down, the UK remains in the EU, and the Brexit debacle is over.
Otherwise they leave, but they will be leaving with a deal, which is better than the current mess.
Yet another vote setup the same way as the previous is a terrible idea, because it has no way of preventing the current problem from repeating itself.
14
@Randomonium
They will never admit that Brexit was a bad idea to begin with.
They have to Brexit out now and people have to see what living without trade deals actually means.
It will be an eyeopening experience for all of us.
15
@Randomonium
And the pro-Brexit pols (I’m looking at YOU Boris) LIED about Brexit.
47
In the United States, Mr. Lee could easily be an upstanding moderate Republican such as the type Tom Kean used to be... and there would be a shred of hope.
Apparently there is no hope. Why is that ?
1
I'm impressed with the number of women in parliament! Zoom in to see the fascinating array of emotions on people's faces.
5
@Sue Steinacher
And also notice the quorum number: 629 votes in the Commons. And this in a country with a population of less than 1/4 of the U.S. We only have 435 votes in our House, a number unchanged for some 80 years. Which, do you think, represents a more democratic process?
1
Bravo to the Conservatives who crossed over to put Country before Party. Republican Congress members, are you watching?
23
Tories want to scrap everything Labour has fought for. They can’t do it in the EU so they convinced older Britons to leave.
I watched part of the debate and while it is apparent that BJ is a fighter, he’s not PM material.
The honorable leader of the Opposition has outwitted the government.
Time for a real change.
9
It's incomprehensible that after Britains decision to leave the EU that they can't get the deal done in three years. Britain has no business being in Northern Ireland, or any other part of that nation for that matter. They gave Hong Kong back to the Communists, but they won't allow all of Ireland to be free. Both houses of Parliament seem only to be concerned with their reelections and not carrying out the obvious will of the people. God save the Queen, indeed!
3
The fact is that leaving the EU is an unbelievably complex process - something very few Brexiters are prepared to admit. The promise was of a Brexit that would maintain full economic relations with the EU... that means accepting compromises like the backstop which Johnson and co have now decided is unacceptable. You can’t have it both ways. And incidentally, while I also think a united Ireland makes sense a large portion of the people in N. Ireland disagree..
@Kurt Pickard
That kind of stuff is what does happen in the corporate and public dominated world we live in.
1
Someone read the Economist's editorial about how to thwart Johnson. Good for them.
11
Wonderful! A self-inflicted defeat, just like Salvini in Italy.
12
The most frightening part of this is that Boris Johnson threatened to expel members of his party who do not vote with him - and that he apparently has the power to do so. What kind of representative democracy is that? Keep in mind that Boris Johnson's ascension to the Prime Ministership came by a vote only of 120,000 members of the Conservative Party. It as if the winner of the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary were declared to be President.
19
@WZ because in theory, people aren’t voting for a PM, they are voting for their representative in parliament. The leader serves at the pleasure of the representatives. On paper, it’s a more democratic system, but the issue is people don’t care who their representative is and vote for the leader they like.
1
@WZ Actually, it's a bit more as though the members of one specific party in one county in Mississippi were allowed to choose the president of the whole country. 120,000 people in a country of over 70 million....You do the math.
1
Hardball tactics vs. British stubbornness, individual and collective, is on display! The hardball tactics are influenced by the rise of nationalistic rhetoric and actions of other nations, particularly the US. Use of such tactics have a dominant goal: seat of power!
When your population is divided by 50:50, commonsense will dictate that you take a conservative view. It should be admired that the British politicians are able to vote for what they feel is right rather than toeing party lines unlike the US politicians.
My prediction: If elections are called, the British people will vote against Brexit and Britain will stay with EU. The nationalistic jingoism was good as long as it has lasted, but commonsense will prevail.
If there are good reasons to break from EU, those reasons are yet to be clearly in the realms of commonsense and the same is reflected in the British paralysis.
28
It is clear that authoritarian (mostly right-wing) governments world-wide are the biggest threat to this world since the Hitler-Stalin-Mussolini-Hirohito days of the late 1930s.
Trump is Mussolini. The loudest and the dumbest of the bunch.
Oh wait, that is Boris Johnson. Or is it Bolsonaro of Brazil or Duterte of the Philippines?
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@Brother Shuyun
Not one of them could be deemed a wrong answer.
But picking one would give a credit 'of sorts' to each of the others, when each is deserving of nothing but his own 'infinity' of debits.
5
@Brother Shuyun Read some books.
1
The answer, of course, is "yes".
2
"But Labour’s stance underscores that the backdrop to everything in British politics is a sense that a general election is looming, with key players maneuvering for the most advantageous moment."
I'm sorry, but this is precisely the kind of takeaway that irritates me about the NYTimes political coverage. It's the positioning of politics rather than policy at the center of news about governments that sets up the conditions for disaster.
What is at stake with Brexit is bigger than what will happen to Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, Jo Swinson, or any of the other party leaders. It's bigger than what will happen to the fortunes of any of the political parties involved. It involves millions of people and even more money, as well as threatening the political unity of Scotland, Wales, England, and Northern Ireland. That is far more important than who looks good on TV, and to make this a story about who is going to be the next prime minister is grossly irresponsible.
25
Boris Johnson: *robbing caravans and throwing the stolen loot into the water*
Michael Caine: “...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
24
I hear the clucking of chickens, coming home to roost.
16
Hurray for parliament! Boris Trump deserves to be put in his place before the UK becomes another America by Trump!
61
I hope Boris Johnson overplayed his position. Let's see him get dumped.
21
Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of electing know-nothing bullies.
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@Hugh CC, One thing is for sure, the @Elite Universities like Harvard, Yale.. others in England specially , created a generation of bullies.
3
@Hugh CC Their bully isn’t stupid like our bully. He can at least speak the queens English respectably. Maybe we can arrange a trade.
8
Thank goodness for the commonsense and political courage that the members of parliament showed. When will the republican party show it's political courage and stand up to Trump and McConnell?
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@not an aikenite
The republican party does not HAVE any political courage.
Politicians from the republican party will "stand up"to Individual-1 and Moscow Mitch when/if they--the politicians--are thrown out of Congress.
3
“The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”
― Mark Twain
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@Fred
And my cats are pretty smart also
6
What is the rebel's endgame? The May plan failed 3 times. Why will a 3 month delay make a difference? It is time to leave, take the economic hit, and design your own future.
48
@Iconoclast So Britain should “take the economic hit?” Do you know what that economic hit will entail? No. Does the British public? No. Do British lawmakers? No. Therein lies the problem. It’s easy to cheer a no-deal Brexit when one won’t have to deal with consequences no one can foresee.
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@Iconoclast. The endgame? Delay - 2nd referendum - repeal Article 50.
24
@Iconoclast why don't you take a hit then, once a whille? rational people don´t willingly shoot themselves in the foot and, try even if disparately to avoid selfinflicted wounds, even if that is for 3 months.
26
Boris Johnson: making stuff up, exaggerating and lying, just like Trump.
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@Tom
And Joe Biden!
At least the UK's conservatives unlike our sycophant quislings wanna be conservatives are reacting to prevent the actions of a dangerous fool ( Boris Johnson ) rather than blindly support him like ours support the ' Donald ' regardless of how insane and eminently destructive Trump's decisions are
57
To our Spineless Republican Congress: THIS is what country over self/party looks like. They won’t let a fool shred norms. We are the cautionary tale.
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Three cheers for British democracy! The contrast with our own country's compliance with President Trump's treasonous behavior and power grab, trampling on our constitution without a peep from McConnell, disgracing the Republican Party and everything it once stood for. Shame on those who remain silent. It's time they learn from the British Parliament that there are limits to being rough-shod by a charlatan!
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Perhaps perfidious Albion is finally coming to its senses after years of xenophobia and excessive nationalism. Brexit would be a disaster for everyone, especially for us Irish. Putting back a hard border between the two parts of Ireland would be the most certain way to renew what we called the troubles.
13
@Robert Dole Hear, hear, Robert. I pray for Ireland.
2
So here's what happens next: a snap election, which Johnson wins because Jeremy Corbyn is hardly the poster-boy for Remainers (he's no fan of the EU either); then Johnson tries to negotiate a deal with the EU, no deal happens, and the UK crashes out of the EU. What a mess.
5
@Jeff If the UK is very lucky the Liberal Democrats win.
1
Note to U.S. Senate Republicans: You see? It is actually possible to have a parliament or governing body--in our case a senate--that has the courage to vote its conscience AGAINST the dangerous will of a narcissicistic, autocratic leader.
Do you even remember a time when voting prioritized what was best for the country, rather than what was best for your own self-interest?
Bravo, Britain! Bravo!
100
It is reassuring democracy in some parts of the world is still alive! Kudos to the British Parliament for standing up to their Trumpian look/act alike politician. When will Republicans do the same in the US?
21
Good show, Brits! This guy, Johnson, looks and sounds like someone we Yanks "elected" to our highest office. Some advice: don't get used to crisis after crisis, as we have on this side of the pond. Defeat him as soon as possible! We know from our very sad experience how he can wreck your democracy and tear your nation apart.
24
One of things that has gotten lost in the struggle for power is the role Russia played in influencing the Brexit vote - and may still be playing in an effort to spread chaos in western democracies.
The European Union and NATO will be weakened by the stresses Brexit is generating. It will be far harder for Europe to present a united front on critical issues, from dealing with Russian aggression to climate change - even if Britain stays in the E.U.
It will be more difficult for international cooperation and political stability when so much trust has been lost by so many in so many aspects of the international order that formed after World War II.
We are in unknown territory - and American leadership is fatally compromised with an unpredictable, corrupt, and incompetent Russian asset in the Oval Office.
“The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
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@Larry Roth
That's exactly right. They went in hard on British social media and spent millions on advertising in mud puddle publications like The Express through back channel financing. Russia's fingerprints are all over Brexit.
2
@Larry Roth , well said, Unfortunately the only choice is 2020 elections to Vote Blue.We need to remove all sycophants , the GOP cowards that decided to be dirty like this administration.
1
It looks like the good old Great Britain has more democracy than USA after 2016.
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I would love to see people in Johnson's own party stand up to him and stop him from his destructive plans.
Maybe it will inspire Republicans to stand up to Trump. Except I know they won't.
12
Imagine if our U.S. President would have to please his case on any policy in front of congress. The video of the actual scene is quite riveting.
11
@Tony *plead
1
How interesting that one of England's original sins, the colonization and division of Ireland, is coming back to bite it when IT tries to claim independence, however ill-conceived and misguided that claim might be.
7
At least there's some semblance of sanity across the pond.
Trump (not that it's about the US in any way re sovereignty or economic fruitfulness), having no clue as to anything the modern world represents, will likely bark up a storm.
11
Hats off to the British Parliament. It seems the populist fever that has sickened western democracies in recent years is finally starting to break. Now let’s hope our elected representatives in Congress take note and take a principled stand against the tyrannical wannabe dictator currently occupying the people’s White House. And if they won’t, we can vote them out of office on November 3, 2020.
19
Its seems pretty obvious they need to have an election. Obviously bulling does not work unless you are a republican. The tories will have none of it.
5
Johnson does not only have the same yellow hair as Trump. He is also an equally unprincipled lier and violator of democratic norms. It is reassuring that the British Parliament does stand up to such a mini dictator. When will the same happen in the US?
24
If only the GOP had the courage to stage a similar uprising against Trump in regard to the tariff war.
16
Wow! What a wonderful policy for governing a nation:
"Mr. Johnson says he needs to keep the no-deal option on the table to give him leverage in talks in Brussels, because an abrupt exit would also damage continental economies, if not as much as Britain’s."
Let's just tear up all of Europe's economies so Johnson can get his way.
8
The never ending crisis that has had more deadlines than a years of the NYT. It must be torturous for the Englanders.
4
The Brexit referendum was three years ago. The people are now much better informed about the consequences of their vote, and there is evidence to suggest that many have changed their minds. Wouldn’t it be democratic to hold another referendum?
47
@Cassandra
"More informed", as in, discovering that every single purported benefit put forward by the Brexiteers in 2016 was hogwash.
It would be a crime upon the Kingdom if they weren't given another vote, this time with armed with facts rather than populist paff and rancid British nationalism (to borrow slightly from the Tory MP who defected to the Lib Dems today).
1
Here’s an idea. Let Boris crash the UK out of the E.U.
Wait 90 days, then hold another referendum on whether to keep things as is or rejoin the E.U.
I doubt the vote would be a razor thin margin.
Boris and Donald - both communicate by incoherent ramblings.
13
@Em . . . . and spite !
@Em They're not trying to communicate. They're both trying to bulldoze !
1
Can the British people stand up, all get out to vote, and, at the last moment, snatch the Great Britain back from Boris Johnson and his cohorts' attempts to create economic devastation and the disintegration of the United Kingdom? More to come - but it is very interesting ….
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@Joe Miksis The disintegration of the United Kingdom is on a parallel path to Trump's converting US foreign policy from multilaterally based liberal democratic coalitions to unilateral "Me First" (oops.."America First") demagoguery.
As a soon to be 76 year old, it is so striking that so much could happen to cause these 2 extreme disintegrations. And in a very short time. It really go to show you that nothing lasts forever (unless you fight for it).
5
@Joe Miksis
Lets be quite clear, we didnt vote for Johnson, or May for that matter.
2
@Joe Miksis
"More to come - but it is very interesting....."
A welcome temporary diversion from US policies.
A small step toward sanity - may there be many more
5
And all this functionality, this rebellion, this democracy happens WITHOUT a written constitution! Is the US Constitution over rated?
6
@Mark no.
1
Bring on the snap election. The British people should have a final say in whatever is about to go down. Hopefully, they will humiliate Johnson and his Brexiteers. But either way, the outcome of Brexit is of such consequence for the country that the people should have hand in it.
9
Parliament has fiddled away almost three years' time after the majority of Britons voted in favor of leaving the EU. Instead of doing what the majority told them to do, the feckless political class has instead ignored the will of The People, and as a result Briton now teeters on the economic and political precipice.
35
@Brewster Millions It has already been widely reported that it was not a majority. It is around 25% of the electorate, if I recall it right. Additionally, the referendum was not binding and the UK is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
105
@Brewster Millions
The older people who voted to leave have died and the younger people who came of age are pro-remain, so what's put forward as the will of the people is pretty much the will of the dead.
Plus what was put to a vote was not no deal...
67
@Brewster Millions
It was a VERY tiny majority- too tiny for such an important vote - more people didn’t vote at all. And many that did, had no idea what was involved.
46
Since the American news on Brexit is very Anglo-centric, I've started reading the Irish Times to learn more about their take. After all, the island of Ireland is and will be very affected by Brexit.
An Irish Times journalist, Fintan O'Toole writes extensively on it. One of his recent headlines is "Botched Departure from EU should not lead to botched exit from UK". The subtitle was "If a United Ireland is on the horizon a decent departure from the UK must be planned."
O'Toole has also written a book called Heroic Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain. I highly recommend it.
7
@the quiet one The quotes are interesting, but does The Quiet One ever speak for himself?
@the quiet one
A majority perhaps ?
Healthy ? snicker snicker
@kenneth The Quiet One, as they say in Ireland "tis herself"!
I speak for myself but not on Brexit. It's a doozy. I'll leave that to O'Toole.
2
"the Liberal Democrats, who have managed to stage a resurgence by positioning themselves as an unambiguously anti-Brexit party"
That pretty much tells the story. The British people do not want Brexit.
17
After all the lies and deception that fueled the original pro-Brexit vote, you’d think the issues would finally be exposed now, three years later. But no, the same nonsense goes on and on. Clearly, Boris Johnson wants to be the leader of a new party - the Brexit Party. And he is happy to destroy the traditional Conservative Party - ostensibly his party, a party that he took over due to its disarray, fueled in part by him, a party that a few years ago found him to be laughable - to get there and to obtain personal power. Sound familiar?
It sounds like he can do about as much damage to his country as Donald Trump is doing to ours, maybe more. But we should all be relieved that he won’t have equal power to damage the world overall. Still, it’s sad to watch a friend falling apart.
658
@Mike Iker Amazing that we think we understand the issues. I guess it's fun to speculate, but if it were so clear the problem would have been resolved long ago, or never occurred.
Look at what we did to the US? Do you think the world really understands how someone like Trump gets elected? What is insane is that he might get re-elected because Democrats seem determined to make it happen - again.
14
@David The Trump analogy is terrifying. Britain? Please stay in the EU. For everybody's sanity.
My knowledge of British politics couldn't fit on the head of a pin, but this is some wild stuff. Every DC Republican lacking the courage to do the decent thing should be seeing this.
How many Brits who voted for Brexit 3 years ago have regrets now? If I were Jeremy Corbyn, I'd check my ego at the door, put up Philip Lee for PM and play out my power from behind the scenes.
11
The silent majority will finally speak, in a General Election. No one hears from them until they the platform.
Boris is an election King, look at his record; he will be returned with a healthy majority. That’s what these politicians are afraid of, they are all falling on their sword - and for what-
that’s why he is calling a snap election.
2
@Simon Paula
AAAH, the good old Silent Majority! We remember them well as Nixon's last defense 50 years ago. In the end, though, they couldn't save him. It turns out, declared majorities are majorities until they aren't.
@Simon Paula " until they the platform. " Until they what ??
21 Tory MPs, including a number of ex-cabinet ministers, joined opposition parties to defeat the government. Fantastic. Finally some common sense. What about some common sense in the age of DJT?
119
@IJonah The British members of Parliament actually care about their country. Our Republicans care only about themselves and the money they steal from us.
6
@Susan Dean
I understand Susan. But keep faith especially in the power of the people.
You all see that in Europe they expected for the right wing parties to win the last elections. Now you see the change came and how people came to their senses. The US will get that change. Your change is important for the whole world.
3
@IJonah Thank you for your encouragement. You give me hope.
3
Perhaps, just perhaps, we’re seeing a return to sanity in Britain. Conservative lawmakers putting the good of the country above party loyalty. Wouldn’t it be nice if that happened here?
Certainly seems Boris, having squandered what was left of the Tory majority, will have one of the shortest tenures as PM on record.
Britain desperately needs real leadership. Conservatives can’t supply it, nor can Labor. Perhaps Jo Swinson’s and the Liberal Democrats’ time has come. They seem to be the only grown-ups left.
63
I wouldnt bet on it. Wait for the people to speak again in a General Election. These parliamentarians, as heroic as they seem to the majority of contributors here, are self serving and protecting their territory. They need to check their mandates.
2
As a Commonwealth citizen who lives in the US and has all my money in the City of London, I must say I am riveted by this unfolding drama! Unprecedented in almost every respect.
39
The US Constitution, used the Magna Carta template. Parliament is now using our Constitution for real push back.
Brexit and Trump are the result of the flaw of democratic governance : NOT ALL VOTERS ARE EQUALLY INFORMED.
82
@Ed - you’re correct! And while I know it’s not PC to say so, that’s why the founders of the Constitution put in the Electoral College.
3
@Ed
The profoundly incompetent Trump and his UK Mini-Me, BoJo, are doing this incredible damage because NOT ALL VOTERS VOTE!
2
@Ed
It's more like not all voters are equally rational. The American experiment began during the Enlightenment, when reason was supposed to replace belief, and that hasn't worked out completely. Also, depending on one's vantage point, what is rational to one person is completely irrational to another. I watched our state legislature 20 years ago when Republicans insisted on commonsense policies based on rural voters viewpoints, but their commonsense was completely irrational to urban Democrats based on the facts of urban life. I came to realize neither side understood the daily life of the other, resulting in the inability to come to a compromise.
3
“It means running up the white flag,” he said.
It's not about winning or losing. It's it's about getting the best deal for the UK. It's doubtful that this is what a hard Brexit would offer. Regardless, a solution at this point requires measured debate and compromise. Both in the UK and with the European Union. Given the short time frame available it's time for some serious discussions with all parties and hopefully a workable outcome. Boris Johnson seems to have forgotten he governs a parliamentary democracy. Maybe he should drop the grandstanding and provide some leadership in parliament. Something he was quite happy to suggest was lacking in his predecessor.
35
Contrary to the expectations of my fellow Americans, I am afraid that the British lawmakers are far more interested in their political fortunes than in the fate of their country. This is the fundamental problem with western democracies. Western politicians' vision is limited by the next election cycle. In contrast, the Chinese have the luxury not to worry about being reelected. They have a vision for their country's progress for the next 50 or 100 years, well beyond their own personal time on planet Earth.
24
@Vladimir Xi Jinping's recent decision to stack the upper ranks of the Chinese government with aging loyalists, rather than - as is tradition, up and coming members of the next generation, suggests that their vision is for personal gain and the accumulation of power before all other concerns.
24
@Vladimir
American political leaders have a VISION limited to two, four or six years. That means their only MISSION is to get re-elected every two, four or six years.
If a particular vision serves the national interest but conflicts with their mission, then mission wins, regardless of national interests.
10
I'll take the former example of turnover in governing.
1
I never thought I'd say I admire the British Parliament more than our Congress but in this case, yes, they look positively heroic in the face of tyranny compared to our Republican cowards....
656
A motion to prevent the British Parliament from having a platform to bloviate and posture publicly....uh, that's the motion they can unite in not passing.
2
Congress
@sfdphd -- What they did was relatively easy. They blocked a parliamentary maneuver, not a policy or a power inherent in the PM. There is no Mitch McConnell in parliament - someone who can do a lot of mischief or do a lot of good as he chooses.
Theresa May is sipping her tea and perhaps even allowing herself a tight little smile. In the end, it’ll still be her deal or no deal.
108
@Qev
Yes, if by "no deal" you mean either one of "exit with no deal" or "no exit with (naturally) no deal".
*Please* let The USA emulate The UK!!! The world needs sanity.
143
@Rich Crank - Who will go up against Mitch McConnell in the Senate? The GOP Senators are all boot-lickers at this point (that is the nicest term I could come up with). Occasionally someone who isn't running for re-election says something, but when it is time to vote they are useless in protecting the Constitution, voters, the economy, et al.
16
Excellent, heart-warming and reassuring. If only the gutless US Congress would do the same! Can’t expect much from the republican - controlled Senate (trump toadies), but the House of Representatives needs to wake up and exert itself. Nancy Pelosi are you watching, are you there??
174
@JMN
No she is not there. She fell asleep again. Somebody please wake her up.
1
Sanity would have prevented lies, xenophobia and Russian propaganda/money from influencing the backing of Brexit (from both ends of the political spectrum) in the first place. Shutting down Johnson's reckless tactics to run out the clock for an EU/UK agreement is still a bandaid on a gushing wound.
14
Is it xenophobic for Asian and African countries to resist foreign invasions? I stand by these countries and the preservation of native cultures.
@David H Meanwhile, back to this article about Brexit.
1
Well, perhaps the Tories will not bow down to Mr. Johnson as shamelessly as the Republicans did to Mr. Trump.
322
Hats off to conservatives with principles who won't be cowed by an overbearing tyrant. The GOP ought to be taking notes.
251
American Congress, are you listening? You have the power. Use it!
157