Why Doesn’t Anyone Want to Live in This Perfect Place?

A question about editing: why does this article refer to "womyn's lands," yet call us "women"? The inconsistency is jarring and the alternative spelling is utterly unnecessary. And, while I am at it, why does the NYT show so much respect for trans women and lesbian women and so very little respect for straight women?

loving this thread, which i found on a lesbian co-housing facebook group i'm on. I'm 58 and looking at where I as a single will want to reside moving forward. i already lived in a commercialized 55 plus community in FL and it was pretty cool. I don't have the $ for that sort of style now, so looking for more simply done. maybe a tiny home community or something like barbary lane (tale of the city). people living intentionally (not communally) is all the rage today too. perhaps this article will start a renaissance.

This reminds me of the celibate communities established by the Shakers. They had no "birthright" members. New joiners had to be convinced, which led to an eventual decline.

I don't buy the notion that these land/camps had anything to do with the difficulties associated with trying to buy real estate as a woman. These were primarily lesbian separatists who didn't want to be around men, or straight women for that matter.

Great article. I grew up in the Midwest, where intentional communities have a long history, mostly built by German separatists (Amish, Mennonites, German Baptists). You could still hear Plattdeutsch spoken in Patoka valley (IN) when I was a student in the early 80's. The issue that kills just about every joint venture is factionalism, part of human nature. I wish that Ms. Raphael had dug a little deeper, wondering if she would have found splits/schisms/expulsions of members deemed as the "wrong element" contributed as much to the decline of HOWL as changing tastes/mores did. The good news is that intentional communities are still alive, well and forming .. but those that succeed tend be be based on shared ideals and values, not identity.

And if this were a camp that excluded all women? Would that be legal?

Is it really that surprising that there are not many lesbian women choosing to live off the grid in deeply rural areas? It's a difficult lifestyle, and given the huge advances in technology and personal connectivity, it's one that stands in stark contrast with how people engage and connect today.

White hetero male here. I live in the country and love it! But the very thought of living in a location that only included straight men (I'm married) would be beyond dreadful. I think the entire diversity issue is overblown and getting played out for political reasons. But an entire community of only one gender, one sexual preference, one anything? No thanks. Small wonder this place is failing.

Really enjoyed this article! I also like the caption on the cow photo. Moo!

“Young women have never wanted to learn from old women,” Ms. Adams said. “We are invisible to them. They’ve always been told that old women are worthless.” Says the generation of women who didn't trust anyone over 30. Young women have always thought they were "different" from previous generations. In some ways they are, but I see young women today making the same mistakes when it comes to men that previous generations did over, and over, and over again. They'll have to learn the hard way just like we did. That's life. That said, most women of any age today aren't lesbian and don't want to live the kind of lives these women are living.

"They exist in remote, off-the-grid areas." But not this location, as an electric meter is clearly visible. They also have wifi and phone service. It's very rural but not off-the-grid. Here is the link that helps clarify some of the issues that I don't think is in the article. https://howlvt.org/

I recently spent a week at a Women's Land in Florida and it was wonderful. At 30 years old, I was the youngest woman there by a long shot. The women were all very friendly and interesting; they wanted to pick my brain about the way people in my generation are thinking about gender identity and how they can attract younger women to their space to keep up the land and carry the torch. It's wild to think about how relatively easy I've had it as a queer woman compared to lesbians in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. While I don't foresee myself living there, I'd recommend it as a stop for any LGBTQ woman or feminist. For the record, a trans woman was one of the residents! A lot of my peers were as curious about these women's views as the women were about theirs. I think there is a lot of learning and healing that can take place if handled well.

Communes while great in theory, don't work out too well in practice. It doesn't take long to discover one can't escape human nature. Take any group of people, isolate them in a remote area, expose them to harsh conditions, and eventually you'll get "Lord of the Flies."

How fast is their Internet/wifi? With enough bandwidth they can attract young professionals who can log into work from anywhere.

as a single feminist looking for affordable retirement, I would love to find a community that loves the land, yet can offer a bit more creature comforts, since my days of felling trees and hauling firewood are sadly behind me.

Vulva sculpture in the garden? Give me a break. Have these few women followed the news the last decade? They should spend some time cleaning up that run down place instead of having endless soul searching discussions. They remind me of the last few nuns in a declining convent. Out of touch and irrelevant.

If you start off by saying “young women have never wanted to learn from old women”, you’re obviously not going to get young women to join. We don’t like being stereotyped and such a statement is complete nonsense anyway!

There are back-to-the-land movements developing again so I'd say to these women (or womyn) hang in there. Things have a way of coming back around. That said, I don't doubt that older women are frequently mistreated, ignored and regarded as invisible in our youth-obsessed culture, but I would also warn against generalizing about the young. As a professor who had to make it up the ranks in a largely female department, I was treated very badly, and had my career hampered, by older women. The sad part of that is those women were similarly mistreated by the men who'd reluctantly hired them when women's lib first came around and they now had to hire women. Instead of that history making these now older women more sympathetic to the junior women, they simply imitated the sexist patriarchal men who'd abused them and passed on that patriarchal system to the younger generations. Racism was also an unfortunate factor. So, to older women I say I understand and am sympathetic to the ways in which you are overlooked but also see if you have internalized society's biases against women and people of color.

The commune that began in 1968 to escape America of the time is facing the same problem. While not dedicated to any sexual preferences, several of the women moved to all-women communes. Other members dispersed, leaving the land in remote Northern California as "free land-for free people." Since then people show up, but only a trickle compared to the 100+ people who lived there in the 70s. Society was becoming more tolerant--although less so today--so it remains to be seen what will happen to such places. Younger people do have to reinvent the wheel...but how do we tell younger people of the freedom we sought?

Two things: 1. I know it’s fashionable to deride older folks as close-minded or ignorant of what my generation’s going through (e.g., all those condescending jokes about “boomers”) but we ignore them to our peril. It’s so important to listen to those who have more experience in life, especially as activists/women/members of the LGBTQ community! If we write them off as somehow not worth listening to, we’re going to end up just repeating what they already did, reinventing the wheel instead of making progress in the fight for equality. 2. What is stopping women from going in together on buying a very cheap apartment building—say, some type of foreclosure—fixing it up, and living there communally? (Aside from price, of course. I know this is probably not possible here in NYC because housing prices have gone crazy, but maybe in smaller cities where the rich haven’t priced us working-class people out yet?) Everyone could have their own space, even, they need not have roommates if they don’t want. Imagine ten women living together in a ten-story building that was auctioned by a city, for example. Community on our own terms without living in one of those creepy corporate “adult dorm” things. (Ew.) It’s harder to isolate ourselves in today’s society, but if we can cut out little havens for ourselves within it, we can heal a bit from the psychological warfare that patriarchal society, from men catcalling us on the street to the Republican Party itself, is waging on us.

Just a question about that last paragraph: "college-educated women make up more than half the American work force". That doesn't sound true.

I lived in the country and loved it when I was younger. I moved to the city again for my career. I renewed my spirit by visiting the country and women's land yearly. I understand the connection to places that only women occupy. I wish I was closer and could visit routinely. Now that I'm older, I long for that rural refresher. Best of luck figuring this out and making it work for another couple generations.

My mom, a NOW leader when I was growing up, had some friends who joined womyn's communes, at least one of which was urban. As I remember, the idea was to live away from everything imposed by the patriarchy, and to discover everything new, from a female perspective. How would women farm? Would their buildings be different or be organized differently? Would their literature be different (I'm looking at you, Hero's Journey)? Or their music or government? They wanted to start with a clean template and discover how it would be if women shaped the world. Perhaps too idealistic, but definitely an idea worth pursuing.

As an older Lesbian, I’m not at all attracted to this run down place in the sticks. Times have moved on and this is not the 1960’s of Kate Millet, Jill Johnston, Women’s Liberation Movement. But these few women seem stuck in a time warp. I would be bored to depression there with a handful of off the grid lesbians of the Whole Earth Catalog era. I have straight and gay friends based on common interests and not sexual orientation. I enjoy a diverse population and I am active in civic organizations of all types. 2019 is a much better place than the 1960’s and 1970’s.

This is sad but it isn't exactly surprising. When you build a project that caters to a subsection of a subsection of a subsection of a larger population(lesbians who prefer rural living) it is pretty unlikely that it will prosper in the long term.

From my perspective as a middle aged lesbian, I love living in urban areas, and love the hustle and bustle. I lived for the arts, visiting plays, museums, restaurants and other mental stimulation. I also don't want to separate myself from the world by putting myself in a women's only commune (yet alone living in any commune in the woods). I've been on several events where I camped exclusively with lesbian and bisexual women and I didn't find it as 'enlightening' and stimulating as I imagined. Different strokes for different folks.

Lovely. Wishes for the best.