5AM is the new 6AM.
1
“The early bird gets the worm”
I get the worm at the end of my day,
and go to bed as the early bird is getting up.
1
Extreme lark here. Yes, it's genetic. My mother passed it on to me and two of my brothers. I awake at 3AM but I go to bed by 7PM, so I get plenty of sleep. I'm now retired so that schedule is easier to live, while working I had too many times needed to stay up late. One help is a nap in the afternoon from about 1-2. I don't really consider this a liability because I've adapted my life around that schedule. I never have a problem getting the earliest appointment of the day.
I live in a society in which early rising is considered a virtue. Late risers are practically considered "sinners". Why is it virtuous to rise early?
3
No mention made about Segmented Sleep https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/features/what-is-segmented-sleep I think it might explain why like clockwork I’m up at 3:30 am. Because I listen to podcasts until I can fall asleep again - I’m a well-informed insomniac.
1
Sleep patterns are genetic. Repeat 100 times!
I have long known I am an owl - and seen the pattern clearly repeated in my dad and a first cousin. Some of my best thinking has been at night, brain fully on and racing with thoughts.
Shaming is either discrimination or ignorance or both. Because I knew this about myself long ago, I refuse to accept anyone's shame. Enough with shaming over a genetic behavior.
4
I never felt that I had a circadian rhythm at all, until I gave up dairy and gluten temporarily for unrelated reasons. With a well, I was shocked to find myself waking up the same time every morning without an alarm. I have no idea why, but it was an incredible difference.
Oops. Meant to write, within a week.
Good for everyone who has found relief from Insomnia. I wake up every night around 3:30, take a Sonesta(prescribed) and go promptly back to sleep. At my age (69) I am happily addicted and rested.
My Dad was a night owl and so am I. Dad used to grumble that owls got the short stick because the morning people got up first and made all the rules. As this article notes, the owls are more likely to seek assistance- so apparently, he was on to something!
7
I've been an owl all my life. I can get up relatively early but I fade mid-afternoon. So inconvenient. However, taking one benadryl knocks me out earlier and I sleep through the night. I've had two doctors recommend benadryl as a sleeping aid -they told me that's how they made it through med school. I take it 2-3 times per week so it doesn't become habit forming. Just gets me on a better schedule for a couple days. Check with your doc first.
2
Nature! No, Nurture! No, Nature! No, Nurture!
I am the owlest owl! High school was a struggle and accomplished on a midnight to 6 sleep schedule, plus Saturday lie-ins that drew chiding. I've always found the early-morning half-light and hush to be eerie and dispiriting, whereas I get a strong second wind around 10pm to chat or clean. I have NO use for breakfast! Lately I sleep 2 to 10, work 11 to 7. Bliss!
16
I have always been a morning person, but I used to be able to stay up later; now, if I'm not in bed by 9:30, I feel awful.
1
I struggle with feeling "awake enough" in the morning—but right around 3pm, I feel like I come alive, ready for a shower and to do errands. Because I also wake often throughout the night, I make myself be in bed by midnight, and gave up caffeine more than 20 years ago, which helped so much.
4
I used to be unable to fall asleep before 5 am (at least). Now I get to sleep by 10 pm and sleep the night through. I would not have thought it possible to alter my night owl-ism, until I did. It was surprisingly easy.
1) Blue light filter on tablet, and no phone late at night (which has blue light). Also, no bright lights generally after sundown. The Amazon Fire HD10 tablet has a built in blue light filter that you can turn on.
2) Vitamin D
3) 5htp (I sometimes skip this now)
4) Try to get ten or fifteen minites of bright sunlight early in the morning.
5) No late night eating.
Satchin Panda's book The Circadian Code goes into the importance of good, timely sleep for health and well-being; I found it helpful.
I've never found melatonin useful. Now, it's not necessary. Micro-dosing melatonin might be helpful; I've heard of that, but never tried.N
Happy Zzzz!
6
I have a close friend whose sleep cycle was, for years, significantly out of whack....until she moved to Scotland 15 years ago. Ever since then, the 5 time-zone shift on her clock has been thankfully aligned with her internal "clock"..
7
Genes can play a role but with most people its
1-Stress.
2-Turning day into night.
3-Eating the wrong food.
4-Vegging out during the day.
1
A warning for those with clinical depression: melatonin can exacerbate your depression symptoms. It did for me.
12
My father is a lark, his sister was an owl. They'd call each other in the early morning when he was getting up and before she went to bed.
11
@H Hilarious. My partner and I used to do this. He'd wish me 'goodnignt' as he was waking up.
3
@H This is very sweet <3 !
1
@Erin I am a morning person (get up every morning at 5 am - no alarm) and my X a night owl. A major factor in the failure of the relationship.
I've always been a night owl. Mornings are terrible for me. I remember working at a kennel when I was 18, and joked that I was never very lucid before 11 am. I've never had issues falling asleep, but waking up is a huge issue for me. I'm terrible at math, and my theory is that it's because I always had math early in school days, when my brain was so foggy.
Now I've been diagnosed with Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome, and Idiopathic Hypersomnia. It took 20 years of being criticized for just being lazy, when I found it nearly impossible to wake up before a certain time. I fall asleep very quickly, even when I go to bed early, but if I stay up until a certain window (11 pm - 2 am) I will find it hard to fall asleep.
It's very frustrating to not be on the "socially accepted" sleep pattern. I'm a freelance musician, so "proper sleep hygiene" isn't possible... My bed time varies with my work schedule. People tend to not believe you when you talk about things like sleep drunkenness and sleep inertia. Thank you for bringing this issue to light!
30
I’m the insomniac son of a chronically insomniac father and paternal grandmother. Doctors tell me insomnia can’t be inherited. I don’t believe them. If sleep cycles can be inherited, as this article says, why not an inability to sleep well? (None of us have sleep apnea, and we don’t need any more ineffectual advice about sleep hygiene, caffeine, alcohol, blue light, melatonin, etc. Nor are we anxious or particularly stressed.)
16
@rgrant
I wonder if sleep difficulties can be "suggested" by a parent with chronic insomnia? My mother, may she (finally) rest in peace, complained daily about her nightly tribulations. Long before approaching the age she attained at death, I found myself replicating the same patterns of poor sleep and poor productivity. I chose not to infect my kids with this mentality, but I remain an exhausted "victim". My life is privileged in many ways, but compromised.
3
@rgrant
I would think insomnia could be inherited. Changes in sleep behavior are seen with certain mutations - some that Louis Ptacek has identified himself. It's not a stretch to imagine some of those might lead to delayed onset or wakefulness in the middle of the night.
that said, blue light, caffeine etc. WILL also affect your sleep even if a mutation is involved.
How I would love to give up sleeping pills!
None others in my family suffers with it but even knowing its genesis does not help; brutalization during childhood at night by abusive adults.
My productivity is 110 when I sleep but only about 75-80 when I don't.
6
Dad thought he was a night owl, going to bed at midnight. Mom pointed out he slept in his chair at 8pm until midnight.
I'd be an owl if the world and my husband would let me, but I'd sleep 10 hours, too. Once we took a break mid day, during a 7 mile hike. I fell asleep on the trail.
I drink sleepy tea. It sure helps.
9
I sometimes sleep 14 to 20 hours a day. I have zero health issues and no sleep problems according to my sleep studies. 🤷🏻♂️
2
@Scott @Scott have any of them mentioned Idiopathic Hypersomnia?
1
I'm a lark married to an owl. It makes it quite interesting at times. On many occasions she's just going to bed as I'm waking up. truly funny an odd sort of way.
11
I wonder how much of sleep irregularity is inheirited and how much of it is due to living styles. I worked odd hours for most of my working life, midnight shifts, split shifts etc. I have always been a deep sleeper and waking up in the middle of the day or evening before my 7 or 8 hours was very tough. I am curious about the genetic part because my father also worked nights for most of his life. Because J had worked so long at night I asked a retired police officer who I was friends with and asked him how long it had taken him to go back to regularly sleeping at night and he told me about 2 weeks! My own experience has been the same.
3
From a young age I have always been a night owl and loved to sleep in as much as possible. I am aware that this is the opposite of the authors anonymous friend, but I believe that this is a similar situation in sleeping patterns. Everyone in my family tends to have difficulty falling and staying asleep, including me. One study conducted by researchers in San Francisco, Salt Lake City and Madison, WIsconsin came to the conclusion that patients with reports of sleep apnea or insomnia “were found to have a previously unrecognized familial form of advanced sleep phase” which is similar to a permanent jet lag. Another case study from a neurology professor, Dr. Louis J. Ptacek, from the University of California said that patternes like waking up early or falling asleep late run in families. Dr. Ptacek and others have also gathered information that included information on identifying genes that influence them. “Advanced sleep phase is now known to be determined by a single dominant mutation in a growing list of genes discovered in the laboratories of Dr. Ptacek and his collaborator Ying-Hui Fu.” Furthermore it was discussed that the mutated gene can travel within families it is a matter of if the gene is expressed or not. As a person with problems sleeping I think that these studies need to continue to collect more data overall and to figure a solution to help those with sleeping conditions like delayed sleep so people can perform to their greatest potential.
5
The only time of my life that I slept late was for about a year as a teenager. Other than that, I have always had difficulty going to sleep, then difficulty staying asleep after 4 am or so in my natural rhythm. Even as a days old infant (as reported by my mother) I was like this.
There is definitely a tendency to early rising in my family. My mother was not an early riser, but of my 4 siblings, 3 were early risers (one is not). No naps or anything during the day - we just all naturally wake early.
I recently went to a sleep doc because as I age it has gotten worse. He told me there was nothing physically wrong with me. Gave me some behavioral exercises to do to more normalize my sleep patterns (that is, so I can get 6-7 hours in), but said there really isn't a problem. The melatonin has helped (he recommended a specific brand) but just knowing I'm not sick has helped the most!
2
A family member with chronic Delayed Sleep Disorder was given *Chronotherapy* which reset his circadian clock. It was brutal, but he was compliant, and after months of treatment, he has been rising between 6:30 to 7:30AM for more than a year. His new sleep and wake times can only be maintained by following a strictly disciplined timetable for sleeping and rising.
If interested, inquire at a sleep center, but first, read this article from the National Center for Biotechnology Information which "advances science and health by providing access to biomedical and genomic information" for an overview:
Delayed Sleep-Wake Phase Disorder
(Circadian rhythm sleep disorder)
A Clinical Approach to Circadian Rhythm Sleep Disorders
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2679862/
2
@Moon Thanks for the link, it may be helpful to this early AM Birddog.
1
@Moon
Glad to hear it worked for your relative. It truly is brutal.
In most people with DSPS the chronotherapy does not hold.
And it recently has been verified that for some people with DPS who try chronotherapy, they end up with Non 24 as a result. They don't stabilize and keep moving around the clock
So it's something to be very wary of and many sleep med. drs are unaware of this problem. This was not known years ago. I tried it four times and although I was very compliant, my body reverted to it's old innate schedule. Night owls have very fixed, stubborn patterns.
There's not much flexibility in most of us. The first time I did it under hospital supervision with the very neurologist who named DSPS (in the Stone Age) and on my own. It never took.
7
What about 9-10 hour sleepers? Does this run in families?
Since childhood I have needed to get about 10 hours per night. Mother and one sister also needed this. Seemed odd to my friends - and being an owl to boot made it very hard to do anything in the early morning. I have made myself adjust for work but am so looking forward to retirement!
11
Well you can't fight genetics! I have had insomnia for over 15 years. It started when menopause showed up. It is absolutely debilitating at times. IF I fall asleep I am up within 2 hrs, toss and turn, then back to sleep for another 2 hrs. I finally went to a sleep Dr who sent me to the sleep lab and I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. I am a very fit, thin and healthy woman. My type of apnea is related to having a very small jaw that when I fall asleep cuts off my airway. I have a mouth device that I now wear but it does not stop the constant waking. I have tried everything. Acupuncture, Chinese herbs, American herbs, melatonin, valium, trazadone, lorazepam, running 5 miles a day - you name it. All of these have some type of negative side effect - even the running. So to stay away from your ipads, bright lights, big meals or alcohol is not a fix, it doesn't work. The ONLY thing that works are the drugs- which are the least healthy option, but they do give you relief. My advice, if you have these sleep disturbances, go to a sleep Dr to ensure you do not have some other underlying condition.
3
@Margaret SL When I was working, in my 50s, I started to wake between 1am-2am obsessing about things on the "to do" list or deals that I was working on etc. It was terrible being up so early and I could not get back to sleep. However, eventually I found that if I streamed WNYC at a very low volume next to me on my pillow (I had to move to another room so I did not wake up my wife) it had a calming effect and I was able to go back to sleep to a normal waking hour. I am retired now, but I still do the same routine every night. Thank god for the BBC!
6
@Margaret SL
Was CPAPt recommended?
1
@Spencer
Have you tried a pillow speaker? Slip it under your pillow and your spouse will not be disturbed. I use this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Sangean-Pillow-3-5mm-Portable-Speaker/dp/B002O4I1PG/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=pillow+speaker&qid=1565880373&s=gateway&sr=8-6
1
The puppy did it. I was a midnight to 8 pm sleeper and after I adopted a Golden Retriever, I sleep from 10 am to 6 pm, with a break in the middle (sometimes). My genetics remained the same but I choose to change. Genetics can play a role but I am in clontrole as to what happens. Likewise with my personality/character, I am in charge and not by genes.
3
Tell me about it. My sister and I both have the same schedule miles apart. If lived in the UK i’de have normal hours. Love to watch my eyelids rather than read or watch the tele.
Everyone in my family, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, always had traditional sleeping habits so I have no idea why I am a night owl, if this trait is truly genetic. My mom said I was a night owl from the first time she felt me move in the womb - highly active through the wee hours of the morning and still until around noon. When I was about 15 months old, my maternal grandmother, who was baby sitting me one weekend, was curious how late I would stay awake if left to my own devices. She gave up and put us both to bed when 3 a.m. rolled around and I showed no signs of slowing down. Getting up for school and jobs that started at 8 a.m. was agony. I never understood why, in an age of electric lights, people like I am, had to live according to an agrarian "early to bed, early to rise" rule. Now I am retired and sleep and rise according to the times my body deems best, and I have never felt better. I'm also gratified to know I have kindred spirits in my fellow night owl commenters here.
34
I had severe insomnia for a decade. I took Xanax. I got addicted. I quit. It was a horrific experience. I've found that sex and driving help me to sleep. I run ad lift weights a lot, but they in themselves don't put me to sleep. If I have sex two time during the day/night, I sleep better. If I drive my manual sports cars around winding roads for two to three hours, it seems to help me sleep too. I know those solutions aren't available for everyone, but they do help me, and I suffered from terrible insomnia for ten years.
4
Isn’t it possible that if this runs in families that it is a learned behavior?
3
This would be very helpful for general education and those who suffer with a circadian rhythm disorder, esp Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome.
www.circadiansleepdisorders.org.
People with Advanced fit into the outside world better than those with Delayed.
4
I have real problems sleeping but when I went on vacation I developed a deep desire to sleep. I was careful to use my CPAP and keep thy fitbit on. So the result of the extra sleep was that my bpm which fitbit calls beats per minute went down about seven points and that meant why blood sugar a little better. This i could have a significant effect on my insulin and make me more likely to loose weight. Interesting and surprising.
2
For almost all of my life I was a morning person, taking after my father. (My mother and brother were the opposite.) But in the past year or so -- I've just turned 80 -- I find it much more difficult to fall asleep, commonly not till midnight or later, commonly only after several failed attempts, commonly only after 3 mg ambien. I often sleep till 8 or 8:30 or even later, so now I'm more owl than lark, though not very extreme. I don't at all feel able to make productive use of my now-much-longer evenings. So perhaps the genetic predisposition is overruled by aging-related factors.
2
Not for everyone: At 75, I have had severe apnea for most of my adult life but wasn't diagnosed until about 15 years ago. Possibly because of the fatigue associated with apnea, I usually fall asleep within 3 or 4 minutes, but have been plagued by early rising, probably related to circadian rhythms. No matter what time I go to bed, I almost always awaken within 10 minutes of 3:30 AM, sometimes get back to sleep, but always around 5:30 AM and HAD been habitually sleep deprived even with the great benefits of the CPAP
Luckily, I live in California and received a doctor's prescription for marijuana (never enjoyed the high or smoked recreationally) and it has changed everything. Since I don't have any trouble falling asleep and don't always wake up in the middle of the night I do not want to take cannabis when retiring, and it wears off before my normal wake up time anyway. Therefor I have a vape pen and when awake for more than 10 minutes in the middle of the night, I roll over, take one good hit and almost always get back to sleep for the rest of the night. Instead of awaking at the usual 5:30, I almost always sleep in until the unheard of hour of 7:00, waking refreshed with no hangover. The quality of my life is greatly enhanced with energy and enthusiasm. Far better (for me) than prescriptions such as Ambian and I use only rarely now since I seem to have reset my sleep pattern.
12
In the winter especially, I'm happiest if I can get to sleep by six p.m. My wife and I both get up between 3:00 and 3:30 a.m. Most people look at us like we're crazy when we tell them that. It is frustrating to try to go to an 8 p.m. opera. I simply cannot stay awake.
1
I sleep from 6 a.m. to 2 p.m. This is when I get my most consistent, restful sleep. Otherwise, I am normally sleep deprived. My pattern of sleep runs in my family.
9
@John Yah! Finally found a commenter with my same sleep schedule! I go to bed 5:45-6:15am and wake 12:45-2pm. It is sad that people are made to feel shame because they are extreme night-owls. When I was working a day job, I also self-diagnosed myself with insomnia and tried to take things to sleep. Now I am productive and feel rested. (My kind husband, who sleeps more average hours 12-7am, puts out my "morning" coffee and greets me with "good-morning" in the afternoon without making me feel bad about my natural rhythm.)
2
This is silly said the woman who hasn't sleep a full night in three days. I wake up every hour on the hour. I avoid "blue light" after 7pm, eat an earlier light meal, take yoga classes and am trying not to stress. I am exhausted. PS I am a lark, albeit a cranky one right now.
2
For insomnia, try trazodone.
8
@Anti-Marx
Careful. "Trazodone, sold under many brand names, is an antidepressant medication. It is used to treat major depressive disorder, anxiety disorders, and, with other medications, alcohol dependence. It is taken by mouth. Common side-effects include dry mouth, feeling faint, vomiting, and headache. More serious side effects may include suicide, mania, irregular heart rate, and pathologically prolonged erections. It is unclear if use during pregnancy or breastfeeding is safe." Wiki
I clearly have a delayed sleep pattern, as does my father (and contrary to my mother, who's an early lark).
I function best when I go to sleep somewhere between 2 and 4 am, and then sleep 9 hours. During the months where I can keep a very regular sleep-daytime schedule, 6 to 8 hours of sleep is feasible too.
But ask me to wake up at 7 am and it's a disaster. Negative emotions are very intense, I feel exhausted, rather than well rested (even when I got 6 hours of sleep), quite disorientated, and only by 6 pm finally start to feel better and have a mind that becomes clearer and more focused.
As a consequence, for years I had two jobs, one where I could basically choose my own schedule as I was working from home, and a job as a musician during the weekends. We often arrive in our hotel room by 4 or 5 am, after a concert, still full of the energy that the concert and public gave us, so we drink something together, talk, and then go to bed by 6 am. IF (and only if) I can sleep in a dark bedroom, with no daylight coming in, I then sleep until about 2 - 3 pm, feel well rested, and can start the day again.
Now that my week job has changed, however, and I regularly need to wake up at 7:30 am for weeks in a row, I feel horrible the entire day. With melatonine (taken IN bed though, certainly not 2 hours earlier!) I can now fall asleep by 2 am, after ... three months of switching schedules.
A also seem to have a 26 rather than 24 hour circadian rhythm...
8
When I was growing up, most of my family stayed up late (not my dad). Mom used to tell me that when I was born, the nurses in the Maternity ward wondered why "this baby never sleeps." I did, just not when I was expected to. As I got older, she'd say "You've got your days and nights mixed up."
Many years ago, 60 Minutes had a story about an entire extended family that had advanced sleep phase; the conclusion by the scientists who studied the family was that it was genetic. I've never forgotten that story. Always a night owl, I do believe there's a genetic component. Now retired, I'm up until 5 or 6 a.m., and sleep until early afternoon. The only downside is that it's difficult when I have to call a company on the East coast, or have to explain to friends that, no, I can't just go to bed earlier. I don't do lunch, but I'm always available for Late Happy Hour!
12
@Times Rita
Me, too. Now that I am retired, I fall asleep sometime between 4 and 6 a.m. I get up around noon or 1 p.m. I see my doctors in late afternoon, and my friends for an early dinner or drink after 7 p.m.
I am unable to sleep without xanax (ambien stopped working about 5 years ago). I take 1/2 of a xanax around 10 a.m. I take a full xanax at 12:30 a.m., and another at 3:00 a.m. I also take melatonin at midnight. I try to get at least 20 minutes of real sunshine everyday, but I cannot exercise because I'm in advanced stage of Ehrler-Danlos Syndrome. My mother was hospitalized twice at the (former) NeuroPsychiatric Institute at UCLA. They said her inability to sleep was intractable and she was able to receive sleeping pills for the remainder of her short life.
Life was much harder tho, when I was a trial lawyer. I tried to get my cases set for as late in the day as possible. My secretary told everyone that I didn't speak English until around 10:30 a.m. It was a real struggle, but one does what one must.
And, as you know, the world is much kinder to the early risers.
13
@PJByrne Too bad you don't live near me! I get up at 1 p.m., and I instruct any company or office to not call me until after 2, when the coffee kicks in and I get conscious.
When I was teaching, I slept in two shifts - before and after. It's much easier now, except for all the people I have to deal with who don't want to understand that people like us are cut from a different cloth. Maybe I will start the Night Owls Meetup group I've been thinking about.
You're fortunate that your doctor will still prescribe xanax. Since the witch hunts began, I've been having a hard time finding a doctor who will let me continue on the lowest dose of Ambien. I had to find a new PCP because the former one retired; the new one kept lying about why he wouldn't prescribe it, until the truth finally came out, when he admitted that he was 57 years old, with a 13-year-old, and was afraid of losing his license. But that's a whole other story, worthy of continuing NYT investigation.
4
@Times Rita Yes, even as a child I was a night person. I was born at midnight and still feel that is when I am the most alert! Everyone else's dinner is my lunch and I try to schedule appts by requesting "the latest time available." I sleep about 6am to about 1-2pm generally. During the pandemic there has been almost nothing open after 8-9pm so I feel much more shut off without night life. I look forward to a return to dinner and drinks after 10:30pm. Unfortunately few friends share my sleep schedule. (But I will return to going out alone and chatting-up staff and customers at the late-night diner/bar.)
Now if only those of us with extreme delayed sleep phase could get employer accommodations the way people with other disabilities do. There is enough research showing how dangerous being chronically sleep-deprived is that this shouldn't be that controversial.
27
Wide awake at 4 a.m. but can't get up at 7 a.m. My brain is hyper active at night. I fall asleep at work in the afternoon but by 6 p.m. my energy surges often working late till 8 p.m. Luckily my boss knows I get my work done and allows me a flexible schedule. But often I overcompensate and am a workaholic. There are tricks. Go to bed after Colbert monologue. Take a mild sleepaid. A little Ganji helps before bed but make sure you don't stay up. I've think I've had undiagnosed ADHD my whole life and can hyperfocus on really detailed matters. I think it's all related and paints a picture who I am. I'm happy with it, but its the traffic I drive in that worries me most with my daily 2x 40 mile commute.
3
"Is Your Sleep Cycle Out of Sync? It May Be Genetic"
I firmly believe that whoever claimed this doesn't really know what they are talking about.
Because, our lifestyle in the developed world is vastly different from the one we had when we were evolving through most of our history until very recently in biological time. We eat differently, exercise differently, have vastly different input of sounds and noise, and perhaps most relevant is that our artificial lighting completely distorts our biological clocks.
6
@polymath
Did you read the article?
There are genetic differences.
I simply do not understand people whose minds are closed shut to anything other than what they believe.
8
@polymath One theory I read is that a certain set of the population back when were tasked with staying awake throughout the night to tend the fire, watch for predators, etc., so perhaps those were night owls' ancestors and genes do in fact play a part. At least it's interesting to consider...
2
I know a man who wakes up at midnight or 1 am and therefore can hardly find a job that fits that pattern. By 5 or 6 pm he can hardly keep his eyes open, so no night life or dating for him. It seems like he has no willingness to change that sleep schedule in order to get better paying jobs and some level of companionship. He's in bed sound asleep before toddlers go to bed. He has ADD and I often think that has something to do with it. It seems like ADD tells him he must have this sleep schedule as his highest priority. I feel sorry for him, but he doesn't try to change it so I guess he likes it.
2
@SarahTX2, "no willingness to change"? I would have hoped that reading this article would have opened your mind to the concept that there is more than just "will" involved. Not everyone comes preprogrammed for socially acceptable wake times, and treatments are frequently not all that successful. Cut him some slack, already.
28
@SarahTX2
Have him call me. I'm on a virtually identical schedule, through no desire of my own.
2
I have known I was a night owl stuck in an 8 am world for years. I took several months off this summer and fell into sleeping from 2 am to 10 am. This was the exact sleep pattern my mother fell into after she retired. She hated it when she had to live in an assistant living center when breakfast was at 8 am and if you didn't show up, they came looking for you. How I am back to work at 8 am and suffering.
32
Me too. 2 am to 10 am is about perfect. Everyone wants to schedule meetings for 8 or 9 am, and I always look like the lazy one asking for a later time. I've tried everything with changing the lights in my place, not watching TV in the evening, quitting caffeine, not drinking alcohol, nothing makes a difference.
23
I’ve been a lark since I can remember. Luckily, it fit my work schedule, but now that I’m retired, I’m trying to become more “normal” by staying up later. Making the change is difficult, though.
So, in my years of being a lark, I’ve never bragged about it, nor have I heard anyone else do so. I suppose if a person looks hard enough, they’ll find a reason.
I myself am a mix between the two: I get my best work done between about 9 pm and 1 or 2 am, and then am up at about 6 am (after 4 or 5 hours of sleep max) and immediatley raring to go again, no coffee needed. (I have been working at home for the past 24 years, so this rhythm has never been a problem, and is in fact often advantageous)
The big difference between me and most of the commenters I have read so far is that I MUST take a nap in the afternoon. If I don't get my nap--for about 20 –30 minutes, 45 at most--then I am a complete wreck for the rest of the day. Well. not really for the rest of the day, but until about 9 pm when my normal rhythm starts kicking in again.
10
I had very weak circadian rhythms and basically no desire to go to sleep until 3am, since childhood, until I changed my diet in my 30s. Eating a very low sugar and mainly paleo diet has made me go to sleep at midnight and wake up at 8am daily without an alarm clock. I don't know why, but it's true.
8
We're three generations of night owls. My parents, my siblings and I, and now, adult grandchildren. It'll be interesting to see if the next generation gets it too.
Melatonin doesn't help us.
18
I'm a night owl. Don't waste your time or money on a sleep clinic. They screened me for sleep apnea, told me I was a night owl, and said I should get a different job. There, I saved you a couple hours of your time (if you snore though, definitely get screened for sleep apnea.) I've just accepted that I'm going to always be exhausted during the week.
41
@Jenny:
Maybe try another doctor or clinic for advice and REFUSE to take another sleep study (as I had to do after passing two of them!). Even try for a major medical center sleep specialist as opposed to whomever you have in your town or city.
1
It would have been nice to have a link to the article in Sleep, or least a hint as to which month it was published in.
3
I have the delayed sleep aspect and I'm sure it's familial - my brother had it as well - but I grew up watching it in action in my father as he performed his job in the military. He never went to bed before 2 or 3 in the morning and he was up and out of the house before it was light, often before we were awake. In our teenage years he would say he just didn't need sleep and could get by without it because he could and he had to. Sometimes he would collapse for a few hours on the couch on the weekend and seemingly reenergize for the coming week.
His mother, my grandmother, stayed up all night, too.
I've been lectured at continually throughout my adult life that this is an unhealthy schedule that will limit my life span, as per current medical information in our 9-5 society. I do not believe my bedtime will limit my life span. I should go to sleep when I want to. What might limit my life span would be obesity or unhealthy eating habits or smoking or not going to the doctor regularly or being stupid. I do not appreciate it being treated as a moral issue.
32
@Rae:
no one in the article seems to be treating it as a "moral issue".
When I had enough seniority to hid any shift I wanted as a airline mechanic, I stayed on the 2:30pm to 11 shift. Perfect for my speed cycle. I used to rarely got to sleep before 3am.
You 6am risers are corporate tools, not the virtuous people you think you are.
22
Melatonin’s value
In Matthew Walker’s great book “Why We Sleep”, in Chapter 2, section ‘Melatonin’, paragraph 3, he points out the Melatonin, not a FDA regulated substance, can have sharply inconsistent strengths based on the commercially prepared product you consume. Later in the chapter he points out the different uses of Melatonin. If you are currently using or plan to use Melatonin, I suggest first reading Walker’s book.
8
My whole working life I struggled to coexist with those insufferable larks who leap out of bed refreshed at 5am. They always wanted to get a head start by having meetings at some ridiculous time like 6:30. Problem was, they always thought they were getting more done because they started early, but they ran out of steam after lunch, often disappeared by 3, and never really grasped that I remained toiling in the office until 8pm, completing much more work than they did. Forcing owls to start work before 8am is really inconsiderate.
81
@Jomo Same with me. The insufferable larks would leave for lunch while it's still morning and then start slowing down shortly after 1 pm at the exact time that I started cranking stuff out. By 7 pm I had all my work done and even corrected a bunch of their errors.
18
23andme.com: are you listening? All the genetic health readouts you provide don't yet include natural sleep cycle info. Would be very interesting to know.
12
@Rethinking
They're too busy selling your information to insurance companies.
5
I'm a night owl, I take melatonin just like Mrs. Brody mentions. It works for me. Although, I still resent the public shame associated with this chronotype and find myself having to chrono-splain a lot to my annoying co-workers who think of me as lazy because I work nights. It's a conundrum because the shame effects my self-confidence, but sleep deprivation is much, much worse. I just wish the rest of the world would recognize that you can be a night owl and still not be lazy.
68
If given the choice I would rarely get up before 10am, fortunately I worked as a airline mechanic and always bid the evening shift. Now that my Yorkie is a diabetic and requires two shots a day after eating I must get up at 7 am and it’s killing me.
10
@Paulie
Just do it. You'll miss your Yorkie forever when he/she is gone, and you'll need to be able to look back on this small kindness you performed to get yourself over the grief.
5
@Paulie
I had to do that for my husband's cat. It was really difficult to wake up from a deep REM sleep. You have my sympathy.
2
Try this. Take Calms Forte, a homeopathic sleep remedy, in combination with a little bit of dairy--I usually have a few tablespoons of yogurt. Or-- soak for a while in a hot, hot bath. Both of these remedies usually work for me and I am awake often at about 2 am. Good luck with getting the sleep you need.
I was a lifelong night owl—even as a young child my brain would turn one and star zinging in the late afternoon, well into the evening. I spent decades trying to squeeze my square peg into the round hole of normal daily life—spouses, work, kids and their school schedules...I tried again and again, well into my 40s, always failing. I read everything and tried almost everything—2 am remained my ideal bedtime. I rearranged my work and home schedule to accommodate my night owl tendencies. I had arguments with neurologists that I was just simply wired this way. Until I found out through genetic testing that I’m actually not. I have spent the last four years slowly adjusting my circadian clock, and have found success. It began with a trip to China and back in just seven days—I took advantage of my very confused body clock to begin to move it to where I wanted it to be. I began to research chronobiology and circadian rhythms. Very bright light in the morning, exercise in the morning, stopping eating three hours before bed, removing all lights an hour before sleep, all of these have worked together to shift my clock dramatically. I now naturally sleep around 10 pm and rise around 7 am, without any kind of alarm or medications.
Don’t assume that just because it’s your habit that it’s genetic. I was shocked to find out it wasn’t, and that I could in fact change it. It took diligence, but it’s been worth it. I sleep better now than I ever have and feel rested when I wake,
23
I am a night owl but don't know of anyone else in my family who was. I was the kid that had no interest in getting up early for anything not even Christmas, and was excited when my parents allowed me to stay up until midnight.
But I have some flexibility, when I had to in high school and for work I could get up at 6AM and went to bed earlier.
In college I scheduled all my classes later and now that I work from home, I fall asleep around 1PM, wake up about 3 or 4 AM and am awake for about an hour to two hours go back to sleep at 5AM and get up at 9AM.
My husband thinks it is odd, but I am also able to be very functional if we have to leave early for a trip to the airport at 4AM, or odd things like that.
I travel for business and live on the east coast, when I travel to the west coast I am the person who has no trouble adjusting, while everyone else is getting up too early s some times it works out ok.
6
Go to see a specialist or sleep study center and you will find very little variation in treatment plans. One size fits all is more true than not. Good to see an article that touches on individual differences. The dilemma is that treatments are not yet in the tool box to get the match that a patient so desperately needs. I’m a lark but used to be an owl. And, i do wonder as to how much longer can this continue without damage somewhere within the body of which i only have one.
2
I'm a lifelong night owl, can never sleep before 11, often more like 12 or later. Since retirement that's not problem, but I often have trouble getting to sleep even at those hours. I've always done better if the room is dark but I thought mine was dark enough with all curtains closed. However, in summer light bleeds around the curtains and wakes me early. Recently I started sleeping in my guest room which is even darker. Lo and behold I no longer wake early, but I even get to sleep better! Fortunately I live alone, so I can sleep wherever I want.
12
I don't like a lot of sleep,never have even when growing up.Some days I am up 24hours plus go to work and feel fine,We are all different.
2
Elqanah Awkward
bengal11ElqanahA
This article explains people’s sleep cycle and how they could be out of sync. According to the author, “insufficient sleep — especially not enough REM sleep, when dreams occur — has been linked to a possible increased risk of Alzheimer’s disease.” For some people, they just naturally have to go to sleep early at about 9:00 pm and wake up at around 2,3, or 4 am. According to scientists who study sleep, such as Dr. Ptacek, they have found that this sleeping habit may be genetic. These genes will cause either advance or delayed sleep. Advance sleep is when one has to go to sleep early and wake up early. Delayed sleep is the opposite where one goes to sleep late and wakes up later. However, these people need the same amount of sleep as everyone else but just at different times. While early birds, or larks, are not that much detrimental to work or school, night owls might need to seek medical attention to help them wake up for work or school. However, there are some ways to help solve the problem. For larks who want to go to sleep later, they could stay up in front of blue light for a long time. Night owls could take melatonin about two hours before they go to sleep. Overall, being a night owl or an early bird in most cases is genetically carried and can be solved in multiple ways.
1
The people I envy are those who naturally need only 5 hours of sleep at night. I need 9 hours to feel really rested. Fortunately I sleep about 10 am to 7 pm. Not an own, nor a lark. But always a bit sleepy when forced by my school/work life to wake up before 6 am, or get to bed after 11:30 pm.
But imagine having 28 more hours a week, 1456 more hours per year. That's over 60 more 24 hour days, or 97 more of my 15 hour days. These fortunates can stay up for late night TV and rise early enough to put in a couple of productive hours before leaving for work.
I wonder what studies would show about these fortunate folks who need only 5 hours of sleep? Do they 'get more out of life'? Certainly the few people I have known who naturally needed 5 hours sleep in 24 outperformed me by every measure.
10
One of my kids has been a night owl from the beginning. High school has been a daily battle. The upside is she’ll be very agreeable to the swing shift if she can find a career that operates that way.
8
@Adrienne
Suggest to her that she aim to be a night nurse-
the rest of the nurses ( who suffer with the late shift) will treat her like royalty!
7
@Adrienne Health care abounds in swing shift opportunities.
5
@Adrienne
she could trade Asian markets. whenever I tel people (here in NYC) that I sleep from 5AM to noon, they ask if I trade Asian markets.
3
A lark I am -- it started during my working days when I would get up early to check on overseas financial markets. I thought once retired my sleep cycle would change. It hasn't. Even worse, I generally fall asleep by 8PM and up by 3AM. I see no hope for change. Oh yes, I suffer from sleep apnea. Me and my CPAP are best friends -- I wonder if this is a reason why I awaken so early.
2
@Alan Day:
I don't think there is a correlation, but talk to a good sleep specialist about that.
I dream a lot at night and yet I feel I don't get enough sleep. Now I know that I know that dreaming means I get to the REM level of sleep, I won't worry about lack of sleep anymore.
2
Two things for sleep. Epsom Salt baths, and Tart Cherry juice concentrate ( 2 oz. shot ) . I agree on the people that brag that they get up at 4 am, but little do they know that studies show that it has more to having high cortisol- which in the long run is going to burn out your adrenals. I work at home so it does not really matter when I sleep so I try to follow my own clock. I do have to say that I feel that the silly " daylight savings" time thing messes up my sleep more than anything. Can we get rid of that already?
15
@danish dabreau: I am an unwilling lark and find nothing redeeming or particularly brag-worthy about my bizarre sleep schedule. Asleep around eight and wide awake before four? Oh what I would not give to have a normal sleep schedule! Unfortunately, this is just how my body works.
5
The author’s friend is concerned about her lark sleeping pattern “...partly because she’s read that insufficient sleep — especially not enough REM sleep, when dreams occur — has been linked to a possible increased risk of Alzheimer’s disease.” The article linked to within that paragraph leads to an NIH study that revolved around the deprivation of sleep for one night. As with many people commenting tonight, I’m quite happy with my lark pattern, but I do wonder if my memory will be negatively affected. I’d like to see a followup article about how those of us with a LIFETIME of early-bed/early-rise nights fare with regard to Alzheimer’s.
5
After years and years of being concerned about the health effects of not getting enough sleep as per the "experts" in the field, I finally realized that I function my best on five hours just like I always have. If I'm tired, I take a brief nap usually less then half an hour and I feel completely revitalized. On the rare occasion, that I might sleep six or seven hours it throws my entire day off. I'm in a complete fog and feel like I'm drugged. Overall, I just stopped worrying about any of it and just get on with life.
6
MELATONIN has been proven to be a hoax. Can't believe they are still pushing it.
6
I wonder about the genetic component here. I have always been a lark, but my parents were night owls. They were both self-employed, so they could sleep as late as they wished. My brother is exactly the same.
Both my parents were extremely good sleepers—they had no trouble falling asleep and getting a solid eight hours every night, even in old age.
They both also developed Alzheimer’s. Go figure.
4
Thirty or forty years ago, I read about a cure for larks: Go to bed and wake up earlier each day by one hour. After 21 days, the brain has experienced 22 sleep/wake cycles and is now in sync with the majority of people. Think it would work?
Extreme lark here. My body wakes me at 2 AM every day! I have two brothers with this same genetic defect. Thanks mom!
To adapt, I have a job from 6 AM until noon. After lunch I take a two hour nap. Bedtime is usually 7 PM. Nine total hours of sleep works for me.
So what do I do at 2 AM? I read. So far, I've gotten through about one half of the internet. :)
19
@billd sorry you suffer too...however familial sleep syndrome you can't nap that is why as one who has it I suffer greatly at times up at 1 or 2 am and in bed by 5 or 6 pm....please know you are not alone. I work out 2 hours, clean the house, do my food shopping, laundry you name it and still get to work by 5:30 am.
3
I suffer from what I consider divided sleep.
I’m 44 and for 25 years, 6/7 nights a week, I will wake 1.5-2 hours after I fall asleep, and stay awake for 3-5 hours. I then fall asleep for about 1.5-2 hours and start the ‘real day’.
I feel I have two separate days in one - the night being my ‘first day’. I was more productive before cellphones - being wide-awake, I would clean, organize closets, read, paint (I filled most of my walls). Now, I start w checking gossip websites, reading the news (if I am mentally prepared), & then binge whatever show I haven’t watched on DVR/Netflix/Prime (I finish seasons in a few nights). I usually end my ‘first day’ with a shower, knowing I will be so tired once my alarm goes off (in 1.5-2hours).
It’s EXHAUSTING & impacting my quality of life- the longer the streak, the less social I am, the bigger my waistline (I try to keep an empty fridge bc it’s tempting to eat, & being tired leads to carb cravings ) and my personality gets shorter/more negative (hey, I’m TIRED!!)
As far as sleep aids, the ‘best sleep’ is without anything. Many didn’t work/didn’t work for long or left me feeling hungover.
It’s now getting worse - longer streaks, shorter sleep intervals. (Yes, I checked my hormones) but as I am on day 19 of max 4 hours of divided sleep- I am wondering how I am going to function tomorrow , and how long this can go on.
12
I am a lifelong night owl and have ADHD. I’ve always wondered if there is a connection.
9
@Courtney I wonder that too. My ex-boyfriend is an extreme lark and has ADD which he would not seek treatment for because he greatly fears taking any kind of meds.
1
I am a night owl. It's gotten much worse since menopause. It does affect my life and those around me. My sleep pattern now is up about 10 am. Nap from 7-10pm. Up until 4:30. I sleep walk through the day and I feel my best after midnight. I watch the clock constantly after midnight because the time seems to fly by and honestly if it was up to me, I'd stay up until 6 am. I do housework, read and watch shows I've recorded. I enjoy late night and early morning. My dad was an insomniac and my daughter seems to thrive in the late night as well. Sometimes I wish I slept normal hours but not enough to seek help.
6
Being a night owl had been the bane of my existence. I struggled all my life with this and finally, around the age of 40, I realized getting up for work would never be easy no matter what I did. I’m so happy now that I’m retired.
25
I've often experienced the same condition as delayed sleep phase, especially in the summer when I don't have to wake up at six in the morning to get ready for school. It's kind of ironic that I was so excited to start getting my nine hours of sleep after school ended but somehow I ended up getting the same 6 hours of sleep I got while I was still in school. After reading this article it made me wonder if being a night owl was just genetically familial, especially since my family tends to stay up late, or I just wasn't mentally tired to sleep early because I wasn’t going to school. I detested the fact that after staying up till 2 am in the morning to finish homework that I would have to wake up in four hours to get ready to go to school. However, in my opinion, being an early bird is not always a bad thing. It's always nice to wake up early when the day is still young and not have to feel like the day was so short because you woke up at one in the afternoon after sleeping at 3 am. However, making the drastic change of fixing your sleep pattern is extremely hard. Based off my own experience, who in my case is a night owl, I tried to sleep almost 2 hours earlier than I usually do but ended up only staring up at my ceiling for 2 hours before I could fall asleep at the usual time I would go to bed. Schools going to start in a few days and my biological clock is still set to sleep at 2 am and wake up at ten.
5
As a life-long owl, I've long been considered the odd one in my family. So was my father's owlish brother. This takes a toll emotionally and physically, as I constantly adjusted to larks' rules.
Let us hope that in time all "minorities" will be accepted as worthwhile people, not lazy or contrarian.
As others have noted, life for an owl is much easier in retirement, although it can be lonely.
I also recommend Daniel Pink's book "When", about sleep patterns, and the importance of timing in life.
13
Glad to see acknowledgement that night owls inherit our sleep patterns - I've spent my entire life being treated like a second class citizen because my body wants to sleep from 6am to noon and doesn't function in the morning no matter how much sleep i've had - employers and colleagues are very dismissive of this situation and treat night owls as uncooperative - night shift work is known to jeopardize health - but those of us who function better at night are expected to jeopardize our health for the 9-5 routine - we night owls know it is genetic - would be nice if employers got that too -
34
Opposite problem here. Night Owl is my natural sleep pattern. I have been able to adapt to the 9-5 routine, but it's not natural. Unless I'm on a regimented vacation, I tend to go to bed later and later until night is flipped into day. It's a shame, because I really like the daytime. My dad was an inveterate Owl, but neither brother nor sister is. Somewhere in our history we must have been night watchers. Funny, too, am always watching the stars.
18
I really wish that we had the custom of the siesta. From 1:30 pm - 3:30 pm, I have to fight off my desire to sleep. I can stay up late and get up early, but my body always wants to crash in the early afternoon.
Given that our culture routinely requires people to be in the office by 8:00 am and cultural events are often scheduled from 8:00 - 10:30 pm, it would make more sense if we could sleep mid-day. Also, traffic is horrible at 5:00 pm, so I often stay late at work anyway.
What's needed is a much more flexible workday so we can work when we are at our best!
96
I'm a musician and I have small children so a lot of this goes out the window for me. I either get up really early to have some time to myself before the kids get up, or go to bed late for the same reason ( right now it's 2:30am in Spain, my 8 yr old went to sleep at around 12:30 which is normal here during the summer).
During the school year it's especially tough cause I get up early to take the kids to school etc but then I may have a gig at 11pm and I'm not sharp if I haven't take a nap during the day.
Same thing for my wife, she often has shifts that run into the wee hours. Things were easier when the kids napped during the day. Hehehe
2
I sleep best from 5AM to noon or 1PM. I wonder, if I moved to London, whether the hours would remain the same.
10
@Anti-Marx
I used to live on the east coast and had normal hours. Seven years ago I moved to SF and have never adjusted to the time change. I wake up before 4 A.M. everyday.
2
I have hypersomnia, and without meds I sleep 12-14 hours/day. Every day. I’ve never woken feeling well rested in my life. For the first 35 years of my life, I thought I was lazy and incapable of being a human like the other humans. I was being treated for depression and anxiety. Turned out, the sleepiness was what was making me depressed and anxious. Now the only meds I take just help me stay awake during the day like a regular human. Still tired. But at least I feel like I live in the world. Sleep and the ways it gets messed up are so poorly understood and the stigma is still so great. Today, when I look back on what I managed to accomplish prior to my diagnosis, I’m amazed at how I did it rather than being ashamed that it wasn’t enough. And I’m now a leader in my field thanks to being able to function through the day.
37
@Anne:
would be helpful if you mentioned which drugs you take for this. Provigil perhaps?
I have had the same experience and can’t live without Modafanil
not being able to sleep is the torture of my life. its like having a disability.
39
@Dave
Trazadone. I wouldn’t be able to fall asleep without it.
4
@Helen Wheels Seroquel has been working for me for about 10 years now. Such a relief to decide what time I want to go to bed and actually go to sleep.
1
Fun to see the (sometimes reluctant) admission that cannabis can really help getting needed sleep.
I don't see one negative reference to it here.
It definitely works, and I pity those in states where the politicians don't let you decide for yourself.
16
My former partner was a lark and I was an owl. It played havoc on our relationship. I was considered morally deficient and lazy if I didn’t wake up with him at 5am.
41
@Coco5 Same with me. Ultimately I determined that we're just incompatible. I would hear him in the kitchen making coffee at 2 am, an hour or so after I went to bed. And then I was always alone in the evening, and we eventually were unable to have any date nights. Always watching 4th of July fireworks and New Year's Eve countdown alone. Didn't make sense anymore to be in a relationship but feel so alone. I respect larks, but it's a big red flag for me in terms of dating one.
5
This is so bizarre, Advanced Sleep Phase DISORDER..........
It is not a DISORDER. It is completely normal. Why does the dominant group always run around with the idea that anything different is a DISORDER.
56
@chickenmanchicken ~
Well said. Being an owl in a lark-centered world is a challenge for the owl, not a disorder.
5
Dr. Ptacek forgot to discuss mindfulness meditation. There are lots of good, evidence based meditation practices coming from major academic medical centers and other medical practices.
For many of us, meditation works as a therapy if not a cure to sleep deprivation. Well worth trying.
7
Spot on.
1
Thanks! I see my problem: I’m taking the melatonin an hour rather than 2 hours before bedtime.
2
Those who struggle in particular are folks who, occasionally, have to work the night shift. They may be at the front desk at a hotel. Often I ask how they navigate the changing work hours. ER doctors may have the same challenge.
Whether they are owls or larks, they are genuinely required to be flexible and it's not at all easy.
9
An advantage of being a super early riser (3:30 to 4 AM): outdoor exercise in the coolest part of the day. The poor owls who sleep late in the morning and then want to go for a run after work have to deal with the evening heat and traffic. I'm out at 4 or 4:30 and get to run in the cool morning and watch the sun come up.
We also get our pick of the spaces at the park & ride lot because we get there early naturally!
Yes, it can be a problem when we're falling asleep at 9 PM, but that's manageable. Better than being up until 1 or 2 in the morning and then struggling to get up on time for work.
9
@Tessa
I happily go for a run at 8 PM when it has cooled down again.
I don't see how going to sleep at 9 PM is enough to get you up at 3:30! I struggle to go to sleep at 10 and wake up at AM.
5
@Tessa - Makes sense where you live. But here in Seattle? Its always cool so no reason to jump up early to go for a run.
Sunset here today is 8:27 p.m. which means right around 9 or 10 p.m. I start getting hungry for breakfast/lunch/dinner. This Christmas, sunset will be 4:38 p.m. and it throws everything off. Sunrise (if
you can call it that) will be at 7:56 a.m. and everyone will be up.
1
Follow your circadian rhythm. It is that simple but nearly impossible in modern world. Most people will get out of bed late on weekend when your circadian rhythm has no sense of weekend! Your genes have very little influence on your late night party out!
I have followed my circadian rhythm for nearly 15 years. I am 71 and has no issue with quality of sleep, even when I travel to India with a shift of nearly 12 hours in sleep cycle. Within 2-3 days I am with the Sun on local times!
So stop worrying about your genes. Just look up and follow the Sun.
4
The best part of retirement is surrendering to my genetic makeup that has me rising by 5 am and sleeping when I want. It is a luxury working people don’t have
105
I wonder if anyone has suggested meditation. I hate getting up in the middle of the night and would rather remain lying down with the lights out.
7
@Marilyn Sue Michel
Yes, to assist in falling asleep, I have recommended meditation to friends for awhile, and indeed the "hardest part" !! IS just that initial getting out of a warm bed. However, one CAN meditate lying down and though that is largely discouraged because of the tendency to fall asleep, sleep is exactly what is desired in this case. In a state of meditation the mind has no thoughts and if the mind has no thoughts sleep can easily follow. So go for it. I even recently discovered that the Buddha taught there are 4 meditation postures and lying down is one of them! Thank you Gautama.
8
This is akin to my genetics made me an alcoholic. If you don’t touch the first drop you don’t become an alcoholic. If you go to bed late you get up late, if you go early you can get up early. Now, at 83, I have dogs and they seem to get up early so I go to bed at 8:30 so I can get up early with them. No genetics involved. Turn off the TV there is nothing on anyway, don’t take naps. I am not sure I believe the blue light business.
2
@Richard
It's so nice to know EXACTLY what fits for every single person across the whole spectrum of humanity. In case you haven't noticed, in the course of your 83 years, people are different...exhibiting different behaviors and problems from one another and at different points in their lives.
52
@RichardI. I rarely fall asleep until after midnight no matter what I do. I sleep late in the morning but never nap during the day and I still feel perpetually sleep deprived. I’d be happy if I could be in bed asleep by 10 pm but it never happens no matter what time I go to bed. Thankfully I’m retired now because it was very difficult to be at work by 8 am.
33
All this variability strikes me as an evolutionary advantage for the group, if not the individual. When I am in bed at night, awake, wishing I could fall asleep as fast as my spouse, I often wonder if my "type" wasn't the night sentinel who listened for predators. Fortunately, there isn't much for me to monitor in my safe neighborhood.
114
@s parson It is 4 a.m. and I am wide awake! All of my life I have had insomnia as did my father. No matter when I go to bed, I wake up and stay up by 1-2 a.m. I finally read a longitudinal study that explained why this occurs. It is indeed thought that for hundreds and hundreds of years, humans split their sleep schedule so that they could take turns night watching. It seems it is in our bones, and now, apparently, our genes.
12
@Mac
I sleep in shifts. It took many years to understand this pattern works for me. I'm crashing by 8:30 most nights, awake from 11 until 1 or 2 am, then asleep for around 4 or 5 more hours. I fought it for years and took addictive, inappropriate drugs, but now, I just go with it and I find I'm happier. I am retired now, and I do enjoy an afternoon nap some days.
7
@s parson
A very interesting point that answers another question: how did our babies not get selected to be quieter at night?
1
I am an owl genetically as was my mother. To override this genetic makeup (which worked just fine in school when one could select the time of one's courses) I see a psychiatrist to oversee sleep meds (and have for 45 years). Took heavy meds while working a 9-5 job for many years til I retired. Now take much less to keep me from falling into my 4 am go to sleep til noon cycle. Most doctors, seeing my meds, treat me as "not with it." They don't seem to recognize genetically programmed sleep behaviors (except maybe sleep apnea). No amount of CBT or sleep hygiene would get me to sleep earlier.
26
@J
I'm happiest, when I sleep from 4AM to noon. When I was an adjunct professor, I offered to work for free, if I could teach only afternoon classes. When I have kids, I'll hire a morning nanny.
Move to Europe. See if the time zone shift helps.
2
@Anti-Marx
aha - 4 a.m. to noon is perfect for me too.
1
I have always been a super early riser, and find it contributes to high productivity. I wouldn't change it for the world. The a.m. quiet is very meditative.
15
@Debbie K.
You’re a lucky gal.
3
I sleep from 4am to noon. Have for almost 15 years. Missed the first half of school almost every day in HS. Had to make it up every summer in community service. Now I’m 30 and it is causing extreme stress, anxiety and depression. I have taken melatonin, ambien, lunesta, xanax. I wish I could find a solution. I don’t want to be like this my whole life. It is my #1 issue. I have lost all of my motivation.
63
@nick Try the rememedies suggested in the article and see your doctor for other suggestions. If you live in or near a large enough urban area, your doctor may be able to send you to a sleep specialist.
I can't guarantee they will work; I've read they do for some people, but they didn't for me. I once asked a neuroscientist who specialized in circadian rhythms what I could do to shft my biological clock earlier; he said, "Don't even try."
If they don't work, see about a combination of sleeping pill and melatonin; medical marijuana may also help., They haven't made me a lark, but I can get to sleep now by about 1 am. If I have to get up early and haven't had enough sleep, a nap in the late afternoon, early evening helps.
Beyond that, all I can suggest is to try to find a job that you can do with your sleep cycle. I know that's easier said than done. This might be a night shift or a job you can do from home on your own schedule or a job with flexible hours--or a job that could have flexible hours. See if your problem is covered by disability regulations. I teach university and have a note from my doctor that I should not be scheduled to teach before noon. My university adheres to that, though I still get morning committee meetings a few times a month (that's when the naps come in useful).
Good luck!
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@Maureen Hawkins
You are toeing the party line. None of what you suggest works for me. Only meds prescribed by psychiatrists (or sometimes family doctors) seem to help. Finding a job with that much flexibility is nigh near impossible.
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@nick
I had to take a fairly heavy regime of psych meds to keep my job. Now that I am retired, I take much less. But it still is enough for all drs to think i'm nuts.
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Lifelong owl here...even as a child, I stayed up reading and getting ready for school was always a challenge, with only 4-5 hours of sleep. My parents asked my doctor about it and he, having a similar child, told them I would "grow out of it" but I never really did.
As a teacher, I became programmed to wake up at 6:15-30 and now, in retirement (but still subbing) I STILL wake up most mornings at that time, even after going to bed around midnight (or later) most nights.
My solution and saving grace has always been to take a long afternoon nap around 4:00 that lasts about two hours. I have no problem falling asleep with either sleep cycle and go into a deep sleep while napping--deep enough that I sometimes have to orient myself, sometimes thinking it's morning when it's nighttime.
I've often wondered how many other people have two distinct sleep cycles.
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@Buddhabelle
I am a lifelong owl. I recently quit worrying about insomnia, and am instead sleeping in three clumps of time. I feel so much better. I can only do this because I am retired. https://www.polyphasicsociety.com/ Was helpful to me.
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@Gem
So, I'm not a freak! Interesting link.
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You all have no idea...I was part of Dr. Ptacek original study, and it is not fun and very lonely....I am in bed by 5 or 6 pm and automatically wake up at 1 or 2 am as I need 7-8 hours of sleep. When I was a child it was more like 4 am and in bed about 8 or 9; unfortunately as I got older it became progressively worse. On occasion if I do manage with lots of caffeine to stay up later I still automatically wake at 1 am which means I become physically ill due to sleep deprivation. It is not fun there is no cure, it is very lonely here in the morning....
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@Rachel, your experience sounds very similar to mine. However, I enjoy the peacefulness and quiet of the early morning hours. I look forward almost every day to watching the sunrise. My problem it's not being able to enjoy late afternoon and early evening events unless I take a nap.
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@Fatso thank you I too enjoy my private time, unfortunately because I can go out at night I am very isolated. I also have to live in very well lit safe areas so I can run when I wake up, which is a financial burden. Perhaps you have a significant other in your life or friends...I have neither which makes this a little difficult
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@Rachel, look for a club like Rotary to join. Many have breakfast meetings, which might work better for your schedule.
Great article! My husband and I love to discuss these studies on sleep and the articles. I have a theory that there is a superiority in the “larks” who get up at 4 or 5! I know several “larks” who like to exclaim, “I get up at 4, and get my day started!” Larks seem to think it’s a badge of honor to rise early! However, not everyone is a lark and many of us, owls, sleep until 7 or 8, and get a good 7 or 8 hours of sleep. I’m proudly an owl! My husband is and has always been a lark. Fine. One is not better than the other, we are all unique and that is what makes life fun!
So, larks stop bragging about your early rising, the important thing is to get ...enough sleep!
Cheers to the owls!
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@Mari I too have experienced that sense of pride for getting up early from the larks. I always knew it was simply the way they worked and never understood how they took credit for the way their bodies/minds worked lol.
Often, I felt sorry for them as the fell asleep and missed the fireworks on the 4th or the 2nd half of the concert. They missed so many life moments shared with friends and family that occur at the end of gatherings and rarely at the beginning.
When I get home from work, I can play with the dogs or take walks with my younger nieces and have the energy to fix dinner. The larks are in the lazy boys watching Wheel of Fortune...how sad?
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@Mari I am definitely an owl, but waking up at 7 or 8 is a nightmare for me.
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@Mari. Yes! My husband's entire family is larks, and I am always so uncomfortable when we visit them. Everyone wakes up early, and I am on vacation, and I am made to feel guilty for sleeping until 8 or 8:30! I hear little comments every morning, and sometimes when I'm partially awake and they don't think I can hear. I know that I get talked about behind my back for it, too, as my little niece once made comments to me about how late I sleep that only could have come from her parents. And I'm not sleeping 'til noon! I am always showered and dressed by 9:30. On the other hand, I am so bored in the evenings there! Everyone is in bed by 8 or 9pm at the latest, and I am up alone, trying not to make any noise or turn on any lights. Sometimes I just go to bed, then I just toss and turn for hours. I don't hold it against them that they are larks, but my night owl pattern is definitely seen as laziness by them.
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I'm thrilled! I'm (sort of) normal. All my life, I've gotten up before 5:00 AM - when I lived in Europe, I'd be up at 4:15 and in the office at 5:30, working until 17:30 or later only to endure reproachful comments from the CEO who was a late riser and late stayer, for not being around until 19:00 or later, in the office. I'm 63 and retired now....I still get up at 5:00 and love it! I'm alone for at least 4 hours before my wife rises....I watch and read the news, work out, take out and feed the dogs....and in the evening, in bed by 20:00....sure, I can stay up until 2:00 when we have guests, but no matter how many bottles of wine we slay, I'll still be up by 5:00. Finally, I can prove to my wife that this whole thing is genetic and that I am not, as she describes me, a "savage".
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@Meusbellum i'm a retired lark- up at 5 am and in bed at 9pm. my mother in law (who lives with us) is an owl- not up until 1 pm and up until the early hours. This works well for us!
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Bed at 8:30 or 9:00.
Up at 3:30 or 4:00.
Coffee on, alone with the NYTimes and the front page.
I love this newspaper-net and the regulars with comments. Thanks.
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That’s great for you. Many of us, are late to rise and we, too, enjoy our morning! And going to bed between 10 and 10:30, I get to see the evening sky full of stars!
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@s.whether
The most glorious life!
Best part of this article is learning others love life this way.
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Could have read this at 4am when I involuntarily woke this morning. This is relatively new to me, this waking between 2-4am. I hate it.
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There's a more excruciating sleep disorder called Non-24-Hour Sleep-Wake Disorder or Syndrome. More common in blind people, I know a sighted person who has it. Per the rare diseases website: An individual's biological clock fails to synchronize to a 24-hour day. Instead of sleeping at roughly the same time every day, someone with N24 will typically find their sleep time gradually delaying by minutes to hours every day. They will sleep at later and later clock times until their sleep periods go all the way around the clock.
N24 can be severely disabling as it causes extreme difficulty for the individual attempting to maintain social and career obligations. Isolation and loneliness can also be issues due to periodically being awake when others are asleep.
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@Tim in Michigan
I actually thought our internal clock, as measured in controlled sleep studies, is closer to a 25-hr schedule. And, without external cues, we will naturally stay up a little later and sleep in a little later every day.
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@Tim in Michigan
At the times in my life when I didn't have obligations to meet I always ended up on a close to 26 hour day. Otherwise I'm an extreme night owl, lucky enough in the final years of my work life to have found work (in computer technical support) where the office had to be staffed 24/7 and I could cheerfully volunteer to work evenings or nights, or my favorite, 4-10 hour 'days' starting about when the day shift was going to lunch.
I'm now having problems with a necessary medicine that causes random long naps. I did do a sleep study that showed some apnea so I'll be trying cpap soon. I'm sure glad they had the option of a home study, since the sleep lab's schedule was 6 hours different from mine.
Several years ago, I concluded that my body runs on a time clock aligned with Central Asian farmer time. Part of my ancestry is Scandinavian. Some populations currently living in Scandinavia migrated from Central Asia or the northern Indian subcontinent many years ago. My Scandinavian grandmother was of slight build, with darkish skin and hair. I've speculated that she descended from those migrants, and that my body clock belongs to that history. When I respect my body's sleep-wake patterns, I am most healthy and productive, and happy.
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@heath quinn Mine is on Irish time.
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I have always been a late to bed late to rise type. My wife used to work 2nd shift during college and so we would both stay up until 4 am and wake around noon, with no alarm. She would get out at 11:30, we would go for a run, come home and make dinner then generally hang out until we got sleepy, usually between 3-4 am.
Now she works first shift and has adapted her sleep schedule well with no problems whatsoever. To bed at 9:30 pm and up at 6:15. I, on the other hand, am completely unable to sleep at these times without the assistance of a sleep aid like Valium, which I do not want to take regularly. I’m usually quite sleepy at her bedtime, so I try to sleep. But, inevitably, I lay down and as soon as my head hits the pillow I am wide awake. I toss and turn for a couple hours, get up for a couple hours, usually until around 3 am, then go take a “nap” and wake up at the same time she does. Every day. And I don’t want to wake up that early, but it just happens. It’s quite frustrating.
Yawn.
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@Jay Hack You have my sympathy; I'm the same.
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My ex did his dissertation on deep rest and sleep. The research he conducted revealed multiple citings that the idea that we should sleep for 8 hours in a row is a byproduct of the industrial revolution. Before that, he discovered, and in indigenous societies to this day, human beings (and higher apes) tend to sleep in two segments of around 4 hours each, with sometimes an hour or two of wakefullness in between. This, he concluded, was what's really natural to us, and the member of the sleep groups he ran did the best on cognitive tests when they learned to sleep this way.
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@dark brown ink - This is mentioned in "Why We Sleep" (excellent book, by the way) as something that occurred in some societies in the past, but isn't seen in indigenous societies currently. There's significant skepticism about this, although I had learned the same thing your husband reported. The book considers it a myth, though.
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@A Cardiologist I have wondered about it myself, but some of the research was from reading scores of journals kept by Western people before the invention of electricity, and from various languages that had different words or expressions for "first sleep" and "second sleep."
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@dark brown ink
Yes, The first sleep and second sleep. Very common/normal in the lifestyle of indigenous cultures.
The clock and profits and productivity, artificially imposed, have thrown it all out of whack.
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I have strong larkish tendencies. I wake up around 4:00 most mornings and feel wide awake. Because my spouse is a night owl, though, if we are going to have any interaction after dinner, I can't get to bed much before 10:00. Left to my own devices, I'd probably be in bed at 8:30 or 9:00.
Six hours of sleep are not enough for me to feel good the next day. So I have learned to discipline myself to sleep (though not deeply) for another couple of hours after my 4:00 wake-up. I use meditative techniques. I lie with my eyes closed and notice the still-fatigued feeling in my body. Despite my alert mind, I focus on my breathing and my feeling of fatigue and the pleasant feeling of lying in bed. Most of the time, this works. I manage to get back to sleep. A couple times a week, when the alert feeling is really strong, I take capsules of valerian root, a gentle herbal mind-calming agent. That, plus the meditative technique, nearly always works. That said, it is difficult for me to stay in bed much past 6:00, no matter how hard I try. But those extra couple of hours are very helpful.
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As the sole owl in a family of larks, my life became miserable when, at age 45, I started to awaken at 4 AM despite having gone to sleep at midnight. Sometimes I could get back to sleep, sometimes not. I was miserable.
I saw a couple of sleep specialists (this was decades ago), was given various meds, was told to avoid red wine, which causes you to awaken, as other commentators have noticed. But still ... 4AM.
Three years ago I saw a new sleep specialist who had me take a sleep test. Turns out I have Benign Limb Movement Disorder. My foot moved 38 times/minute, awakening me. A blood test revealed that my Ferritin levels were at the bottom of the normal range - no wonder I had no color in my lips!
I was put on Iron supplements, made sure to take them properly, got my levels up to the target ...and I again slept through the night. I’m still working with a sleep specialist to figure out the right amount of iron to keep them steady, which is tricky for me (I don’t eat red meat).
So yes, I might have a different genetic makeup, but there can be other causes of odd sleep patterns. Don’t take drugs. See a sleep specialist if your sleep bothers you despite good sleep hygiene.
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@A Jill perimenopause can also be a factor here. Check it out!
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Yes, I think my sleep cycle at age 67 is the extreme lark variety. And getting up at 3:00 AM does make for a tiring day. THC is helpful for extending sleep but the weird dreams and hallucinations aren't so pleasant. However, on a recent vacation on which I was without my cannabis I discovered that simple increasing my melatonin dosage to 9 or 10 mg definitely kept me sleeping as late as 5:30 or 6:00.
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It seems to me the desire to sleep when it gets dark outside and wake with the sun is what we would be doing if not for the unnatural electric lighting (and television) that the modern world has brought us.
I understand that this article is also talking about some things more extreme than that, but to characterize wanting to sleep from 9 pm to 5 am as a "condition" seems inaccurate to me.
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@Tim H i sometimes wonder if legends of vampires and night spooks aren't just the result of pre-industrialization owls and/or insomniacs... think of how larks must have felt if they woke up in the middle of the night (as almost all larks with natural cycles do at some point) and see their neighbor walking around at night, or up doing something or digging their garden by moon light or candlelight. must have seem eerily supernatural to those larks. when they were all up at dawn and digging the fields to plant crops, where were the night owl neighbors? "t'ain't natural, i tell ya!"
I have chronic insomnia, struggling most of my life to sleep more than 4 or 5 hours.
This story reminded me that my father usually only slept 5 or 6 hours and loved it, jumping out of bed at 6 or 7 a.m. even on weekends to busy himself with his innumerable projects, before beginning another work week of 12 hour days.
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I've always been an early riser and have loved it-still do. But, due to a recent near death experience, I'm experiencing a profound sleep disruption.
I'm falling asleep in the afternoon and then at bedtime, I can only sleep until about 3 am. I'm trying to recalibrate my sleep cycle, but it's much, much harder than expected. I refuse to use prescribed drugs and instead, I use exercise and a miniscule amount of CBD/cannabis. It's working, but very slowly.
Life throws us curves and we have to adapt. Some things we can change and some things we can only work at. I consider myself lucky to be alive and I accept the differences.
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I am a Lark by circumstance and unfortunately my spouse is a night owl. I am fortunate in one way in that I can adjust as need be. I used to work an off-shift and was getting home at 0200, lights out at 0600 and up by 1300...this worked fine with my spouse being a night owl. Now, I need to be in bed by 2100 to 2200 to get the rest I need to be up at 0415 for work and unfortunately my spouse get very upset that I am not staying up with her until 0200. This can definitely put a strain on a relationship as she is not willing to back off of the pressure for me to stay up late.
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@Craig I hate to say it, but does your spouse understand that early hours are what your body needs? If not, you need to make it clear. If she still exerts pressure on you to stay up late, then she is extremely selfish, wanting to harm you to suit her own pleasure. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with such a person.
I have the same situation as you, except that my spouse is understanding and supportive of my need to take care of myself. He snuggles with me when I go to bed, then stays up for another 4 hours or so before joining me in bed. I cuddle him before I get up, and then I happily let him sleep several more hours. There's no reason why a happy marriage requires identical sleep schedules.
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@Mark O’Malley, Bravo.
My father was a lark. He always went to bed early and rose early. When I was in middle school he got me a clock radio, but I always woke up before the alarm went off, and still do. I'm a lark too, as is one of my daughters. Definitely runs in families!
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As a lark, I'm fortunate to live in a place that encourages early risers. My job starts at 7:30 a.m. and it's not unusual. I am up at 4 a.m. most mornings to have time to exercise before work. I am in bed around 9 p.m.
I can sleep a little later on the weekends and stay up a little later, if circumstances demand it. Life in the country surrounded by fishermen and farmers means there's not a lot going on after 9 p.m. during the week anyway.
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I have been an early riser (0400 is normal) my whole life-usually with a least four hours of sleep I wake up at that time. I am 68 now and still do it. I have 5 brothers and sisters that would never get up before noon if they could get away with it.
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@Kevin Phillips
As one lark to another and about the same age, and with 5 sisters, (2,000 miles away), I ask this in a spirit of 'amusement': Are you certain they're YOU'RE brothers and sisters? (Separately, I've no idea what their sleep paterns are as we haven't had contact since the 1980's.)
@david
Pretty sure, lol. My partner of 40 yrs is an owl. We have always just gone to bed (to sleep) and get up when we want individually-no children. In our late 60's now it is mostly just to sleep but, oddly, back in the day we were both morning and/or afternoon people for that activity. I will have to ask her about that when she gets up this morning. It's 0359 and I have been up for an hour.
On weekdays, I rise around 3:45AM with no alarm, after about 7.5 hours of sleep. My body definitely has internalized a clock that is accurate within 5 minutes, so to speak. On weekends, I might go to sleep a half hour later, but get an additional REM cycle in.
Around the time I turned 40, I realized I could not drink wine within 3 hours before going to sleep: I would get to sleep OK, but awaken after deep sleep and have fitful toss-n-turn naps instead of REM sleep thereafter. So, the only time I drink wine in the evenings is the rare occasion (New Year's Eve) where I've got zero to do the next day and can nap. Distilled spirits don't typically have as pronounced an effect on my sleep, so I can have cocktail with dinner if I am dining out socially.
I also adhere to the sleep hygiene rule not to take long naps, nor to take less than 7 hours before regular sleep time. My favorite nap time is ... late morning.
And this runs in my family, yep.
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I just know that on any morning, at around 5AM, I could call anyone in my family, and I wouldn't be waking them up.
Even on weekends.
Do we have to be up that early?
No. But we all are.
Definitely runs in the family.
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@D. DeMarco same here! An entire extended family. No one sleeps past 5:30. And everyone is asleep by 10:30. And actually, many of us also sleep earlier than that (7-9 pm range) and then wake for an hour or two in the middle of the night before going back for a few hours. Weird.
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@D. DeMarco Conversely, my sister and I frequently call each other around midnight, knowing the other will likely still be up and happy to chat.
I’m a lark, typically falling asleep around 8:30pm and awaking with no alarm by 3:30am or so. My mind is very refreshed in the morning and that is when I’m most productive. But by the evening, forget it; I can’t even read for pleasure without feeling drowsy.
No matter how much I try, I can’t seem to break this pattern. When I do try, I find that I just get “overtired”, but then still awake at my normal 3:30am, resulting in my getting less and poorer quality sleep. So to ensure a good night’s sleep, I avoid late evening activities which has negatively impacted my social life. (Fortunately my spouse has a similar rhythm). My mom was the same as I am, so there may by a genetic factor.
I guess it’s reassuring that there are others who experience the same thing. But now that my spouse and I are retired, it would be nice if I could just shift my sleep cycle from 8:30p-3:30am, to 10pm-5am.
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I’m an owl and life is easier in retirement. I’ve been sleep deprived most of my life. Even as a small child I fretted over not being able to go to sleep knowing I would be tired the next day. Now as a senior I am not sleep deprived but do miss out on many classes and activities because they are scheduled too early for me. I do feel like a bit of an oddball and rarely have met others like me. I can’t manage group travel because breakfast at 6 or 7 and Forward March at 8 just doesn’t work for me. It helps to know that there are a few others like me. My daughter is at the other extreme. Ready for bed at 9 or 10 and ready to roar by 4 or 5.
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I was just thinking of going to a Tai Chi class tomorrow, but it’s at 8 am, and I get stressed just thinking about getting up that early. Retirement is great, but I, too, miss out on activities.
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@S. Bernard
Don't feel you're an oddball. A lot of owls hide the fact because many larks are disapproving and see going to bed late and, worse, getting up late as a moral deficiency.
My whole family--father, mother, four siblings, husband and son--are owls. It's hard to fit in to lark society, and we're all mostly sleep-deprived most days, but we're also a lot more flexible than most of the morning people we know. We've had a lifetime to get used to forcing ourselves to rise when we didn't want to. My best work schedule was when I worked 4:00 p.m. to midnight; I never felt tired then. I'm looking forward to retirement, when I can go to bed at 4 a.m. and sleep till noon, and no one will have anything to say about it.
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@Laura D
Thank you because it often does feel like a moral failure/lack of character. How I hate the phrase...the early bird gets the worm!
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I’m a lifelong lark, who seems to be waking earlier and earlier more frequently. This morning I was up before 4 after having gone to bed after 11. Some mornings it’s three. I typically wake up, fully awake and raring to start the day. No alarms involved. Mostly I love it—my morning time is very special. I have always loved watching the sunrise. But sometimes I am anxious about late nights because I know that regardless of what time I go to sleep I’ll be up by 6, but probably earlier.
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