Having lived near Shenzhen in the late 80s and 90s when Huawei's business was to contract somewhat aged marine supply vessels to the offshore oil industry, it is obvious that they were and continue to be a proxy for the Chinese government to participate in big business., i.e. the tech world today.
As China continues to profess world dominance in AI and monitors/controls its citizens via 200 million cameras then Vietnam and the world needs to proceed with extreme caution !
7
@Inside the Loop
The underlying cautious approaches by Vietnam towards China is based on its horrible experience during the war. Vietnam was used as a proxy against the US. Not even one tenth of one percent Chinese died compared to those Vietnamese. And when the war was over, China acted with ingratitude and seemed to have forgotten all about the war. China returned once again having sniffed the waft of the Vietnamese-Americans' remittances in billions of dollars which boosted its economy and its trade with the US and that of China lately.
3
These comments are mind boggling.
Huawei has been in business for 30+
years in large number of countries
including western Europe. If it was
used for espionage, there should have
been some specific cases. None has been cited. It is the product of Pompeo and Trump imagination who don't believe in facts. U.K. has conducted
thorough study of Huawei system
and found no backdoor but few software
errors which Huawei has vowed to fix.
US has conducted no such study. It is
only what Mr. Trump said.
8
Mike Pompeo said that Huawei Technologies' ties to the Chinese Communist Party pose the greatest threat to America’s economic and national security. Pompeo was sent around the world to make this case. He may be right, in which case there should be no compromise on selling product to, or purchasing products from Huawei. But now Trump appears to be making Huawei part of the trade negotiations with China. That seems like a complete contradiction which is pretty normal for the Trump administration and perhaps explains why countries like Britain and Germany are unlikely to ban Huawei.
7
No country, specifically in the South East Asia and around South China sea should embrace more aggressive and autocratic China or its companies, as almost all big Chinese companies basically have no option but to cooperate with the communist Govt of Xi. Otherwise they can not even survive, forget flourishing, in that land of state control on not just companies but even lives of each and every people there (even foreign visitors.)
5
Vietnam has always been a wary "brethren" of China. It might accept aids from the latter during the Vietnam War but it almost went to war with China back in the Deng era. In a weird dynamic, good chance that it may trust America more, especially when Obama made the pacific pivot and with John McCain and John Kerry as the proponents of reconciliation
2
Tell them not to use American companies: they spy just as much as the Chinese. Stick to Nokia and Ericsson
6
Go back a little and you see that historically the Vietnamese were and always will be wary of China. Though they voice communist ideologies nationalism runs deep, independence run deep. If we ( and some did) We saw this historically there never would have been a Vietnam was and 58,000 American would not have died and many Vietnamese would not have died by America intervention that was a civil war.
6
JFK didn’t see it that way.
Between two powers find a mid-point is a wise choice for any nation; 5G not yet a closed door technology
1
Vietnam was occupied by China for 1000 years, they may be their trading partner, but they know of China's intention's. China's Belt and Road Initiative is just a slow moving takeover of the world. They are doing this quietly and without fanfare and every country in this world should not only be wary of Huawei, but wary of China. China in one generation has become the factory to the world. Imagine how much better off America would be if we hadn't been turned into Walmart in 70's. Since we have tech giants here, why are the only three names mentioned foreign names, for 5G?
7
@thewriterstuff: Why are "..the only three names mentioned foreign names, for 5G?" It's a simple answer, and it's on us.
5G functions best in the low-band frequencies. Without getting too technical let's just say the provider gets more bang for their buck. Signals travel further in low-band rather than the high-band our domestic providers are using. You can space your repeating stations further out and so maximize your capital in that fashion.
So why don't our providers use low band? It's the exclusive province of our military; the government is not allowing, by licensing, the low-band. And in so doing they are allowing the foreign manufacturers to leap-frog us.
John~
American Net'Zen
2
American companies are crying about their bottom line during this trade war, not looking at the long-term consequences of the damage and domination of the Chinese Communist party's plans to usurp power against each and every country on this planet for its own destructive purposes. In the end, which world order do you want and trust more: an american one or a chinese? Just imagine a world where the chinese have their way.
8
lived and worked in Asia since a kid in the 60's ...
Can't have China making any parts of the system in the USA .. this has nothing to do with before/during/ .. after trump
10
China has only recently “embraced” Vietnam’s party leadership. The two were actively hostile throughout the Cold War. They found a third Vietnam War after we left: Vietnam was a Soviet state in the USSR’s sphere of influence, whereas Cambodia was a Maoist Communist state aligned with China, The USSR and China fought a proxy war in Vietnam over Cambodia in the 70s. Millions died. Don’t worry about the fact that you don’t know about this and didn’t read about it in the history books, almost no one in China knows it happened either.
Things have just mildly defrosted since then.
9
This is NOT about any security threat posed by Huawei equipment. This is about the Vietnamese government and the Vietnamese people being wary of Chinese government influence in their country. I saw this also during a recent visit to Laos. I thought that people would be happy that China was building a high-speed rail line through Laos; good for business and tourism. But what I heard from people was suspicion regarding Chinese government intentions. I found the same thing to be true when I visited Sri Lanka last year.
10
@ShenBowen, you probably talked to few persons to generalize your
overall impression. The fact is
the governments in Sri Lanka, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia have
signed the investment agreements
with China to spur their development. These countries
don't have the money of their own.
China is helping them to develop,
create jobs and lift millions out
of poverty. The statements about
Chinese intentions are speculative
at best or figment of imagination.
China has been involved in these
countries since a long time and specific cases of China trying to control them should exist if it is true. China doesn't need Huawei to spy. There have been reports of Chinese hacking American systems in government and private companies using American technology. Huawei is not
necessary for espionage.
2
@s.khan: Just to be clear, I agree with you. What I'm reporting are comments that I heard from people in these countries, locals I met while traveling. I personally don't think that China is posing a threat to these countries. I think that China wants more customers for its goods, and, in general, political allies. One complaint I heard, particularly in Colombo was that the money for these projects was in the form of loans, and people objected to the indebtedness. Also, most of the building is done with imported Chinese labor. There was some resentment that the work was not being done by Sri Lankans.
3
I wonder if there is any evidence to prove Huawei such a security threat and I don't think it's about technology, it's all about politics. Vietnam and China has been in territory conflicts for centuries, and given the power imbalance, Vietnam now has a Chinaphobia symptom. Besides network equipments Vietnam uses different specs in their national grid and rail systems, even as now China has become their largest export destination. But I wonder whether those measures would grand Vietnam many advantages if conflicts broke out.
4
@Ju The problem is that the Chinese government have access to Huawei. Everybody in China toes the communist line. So if China's asks Huawei to spy for them what do you think will happen? Why would Huawei act differently, it has to toe the line or else suffer the consequences.
12
@AL: I'm an American who worked for Huawei for six years before I retired. Huawei is, to the best of my knowledge (which is not perfect) not an agent of the Chinese government, and does not put spyware into its equipment. British Telecom, for example, thoroughly vetted the equipment before buying, and they've been customers for years. It is only because US intelligence recently put pressure on the UK, and other Five Eyes countries, to stop buying Huawei, that there is talk of the equipment being compromised. It IS well-documented, however, that the NSA broke into Huawei's data center in China and stole a great deal of proprietary property. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html
The justification was that the NSA needed to collect evidence that Huawei was spying on the US. No evidence was found.
Why is it that Democrats distrust everything the Trump administration says, but for some reason believe everything that it says about China? It seems to be the one thing that unites both parties.
6
@AL I believe once sold the carriers would have the ultimate control of the equipments and cyber attacks today don't rely on certain equipments. If America insists that Huawei is really a threat they should stop that ideology nonsense and immediately disclose substantial evidences to the public, if they have any. Currently it seems to me that Huawei is merely a pawn in a trade war.
4
Vietnam likely understands China better than most other countries. Their suspicion of Huawei is well founded. China uses hi-tech as a tool of oppression. Huawei is a Trojan Horse.
21
@Peeking Through The fences The Vietnamese have been keeping the Chinese at bay for centuries and understand better than anyone else that China can't be trusted.
13
Vietnam's policy towards China and the US should be: Welcome the Giant far away to keep the Giant next door in check.
4
Southeast Asian countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore can afford to have Huawei builds their 5G network because they didn't have the history that Vietnam has with China.
5
If China's government were to penetrate Huawei technology, it would be a serious security risk to any country that purchased Huawei's products. That said, what about other 5G vendors? Are Cisco, Qualcomm, Apple, and other US manufacturers guaranteed to be risk-free? While it is unlikely that the US Government could foist a security hole on US products, history has taught us that communications technology is rife with holes that have been exploited by hackers around the world. While the short term solution may be to ban Huawei's products to obtain a false sense of security for now, the only viable way to deal with this problem is to be vigilant and to establish fool-proof secure systems vetted by the best technologists. No hacker or country should be able to penetrate the security. The danger of breaking the market along geopolitical boundaries is that countries can retaliate against countries. A Huawei ban in the US can be matched by Qualcomm or Apple ban in China thereby damaging the benefits of global trade without improving security of the systems. If the market is to be split let it be split into the hackable systems and the secure systems.
3
@Harold The US is a democratic country and when you find that it penetrated a network you can sue. China is not a democracy, without a free press, without free court. Moreover, we are talking about the backbone of the communication system. As such, I rather have Erikson and Nokia running the pipes rather than China or the US
10
@Harold Ahhh, of course, just make secure, fool-proof systems. Brilliant idea! End-to-end quantum! But seriously I would say you are naive to think that Chinese intelligence, having direct influence on what could be added to Huawei's silicon (yes, Huawei's HiSilicon division designs certain key chips for their 5G gear and has them made by Taiwan's TSMC), is just a risk on par with your glib reciting of 'everybody's stuff has holes in it'... but I'm sure you didn't even know this to begin with.
1
"Today, even remote mountain, coastal and island communities have 4G. " Amazing, here on Long Island (not exactly "remote") many customers cannot get even 3G reliably.
15
@Paul Adams
Yup. Barely one bar in my living room.
2
@Charles - 'Barely one bar in my living room'
most people don’t even have one - and don't want to drink so much anyway ... ;-)
free-enterprise capitalism at work ? not enough full-time residents to make providers' investments worthwhile ?
The west built China, China will bite the hands that fed it. Let it build other nations. Some day they will stop paying back their debt. It will set them back for a short time. What could china do? Invade the world. Good luck to them. History keep telling us over and over what happens when leaders become too stupid to think beyond their belly button.
4
@JG I am not sure what you mean by "The west built China" but I can assure you that during significant periods of human history, maybe as much as 25%, China was the most powerful nation on earth. The most powerful dynasty of all, the Yuan, controlled most of Asia exclusive of SEA and India, and reached far into what we now call Eastern Europe. At it's peak it controlled 9 million sq. miles. Only the decadence of the Qing resulted in the Opium Wars which reduced China's place in the world order. There may be periods when due to failure to adapt to technology larger nations may be week, but almost inevitably the most populous nation will be the most powerful.
2
@TH You give China itself too much credit. More accurately, the Yuan you mentioned were actually the invader/conqueror of China. They were the Mongol invaders that conquered much of Asia, including China. China tried to resist the invasion, but eventually lost to the Mongols. China also got invaded and ruled by the Manchu and others from the north.
3
@JG
The sad part is that there are still stupid leaders around the world...
2
We need the world to split along the China/Non-china fault lines.
A future under China is unthinkable to any American. We have no idea how much freedom is worth.
15
Having traveled in China, especially soon after Tiananmen Square, yes, I can say, you are right. Most Americans can’t conceive of how bad it can get under a brutal dictator. The Chinese put a lot into their PR machine, but there is no doubt.
China is a brutal dictatorship.
13
@Lilly
I visit China regularly for business and golf, and I can tell you I feel safer there than in most American cities. We can walk around the streets late at night without fear of being mugged by thugs and gangs, or stopped by the police. In fact, you hardly see any policemen patrolling the streets.
My Chinese friends and business associates freely discuss politics and the local friends don't have to look behind their shoulders when doing so!
The Chinese work and live where they want, and travel abroad to places of their own choice.
The Chinese make up the biggest group of tourists in the world now, and you can see them in New York, SF, LA and major US places of interest as well as in Europe, Britain, Australia, etc. In fact, in many Japanese and Korean department stores, announcements and signage are also in Chinese because of the large number of Chinese tourists.
When many tens of millions of Chinese citizens are travelling abroad every year, and hundreds of thousands of young smart Chinese go abroad each year to attend schools and universities, it would take a super Chinese leadership to impose a brutal dictatorship in the country!
1
@Singman You can play Gulf and do business in China as long as you follow their rules. Once they decide you did not and jail you are basically a dead man walking. Just ask the Tinto Executives - Rio Tinto espionage case - The arrests came during difficult negotiations over the price of iron ore for the 2009-2010 period. After steep increases in 2008, Chinese steelmakers hoped to see iron prices come down again because of the global recession. [8] The Rio Tinto employees are accused of having industry data crucial to the negotiations too detailed to have been obtained legally. [9] On Thursday, July 16 Reuters reported that Rio Tinto had evacuated its iron ore and steel industry research staff from Shanghai the day before, as had "other foreign groups... until conditions there become more certain." [10]
6
This is the same mistake the "Domino Theory" mentality made when thinking Vietnam would naturally fall into the Chinese orbit. Either it is western conflation of all southeast Asian nations as alike by proxy or amnesia. Vietnam has, for its entire history, fiercely resisted Chinese dominance and defined themselves as an inherently separate (and possibly superior) culture with equally ancient roots. In this light it is only natural they would take seriously any possibility of Chinese infiltration of their technological infrastructure. Further, Ho Chi Minh, after helping to eject the Imperial Japanese Army from the region, issued a Declaration of Independence that mirrored our own after WWII. It was only when the US decided to hand the French back Indochina and to ignore Vietnamese nationalism, that Vietnam turned to communists (really anybody) for monetary support in their fight for independence from French colonialism. Yet, this perception of Vietnam being a "natural fit" with China persists to this day. Rather, Vietnam has recently and repeatedly demonstrated they are a natural fit as an American ally to counter Chinese ambitions in the South China Sea. American perceptions should move toward this as a self-evident policy objective rather than being commonly surprised by Vietnamese lack of trust in Chinese intentions.
28
@Gowan McAvity
We are all with you and Americas..
Despite the paranoid mentality we see in Trump, and his persuasion for other western nations to follow suit, I think Huawei's technology will prevail and certainly when Trump waves goodbye to the American people as he enters the helicopter and leaves the White House lawn after losing the 2020 election, we will return to normal and accept world wide the advanced technology Huawei has. Trump's paranoid mind will soon be gone.
1
On this one thing, Trump is right.
China wants to control the world.
China is a brutal dictatorship.
10
Headline, South China Morning Post,
"Global Economy
Vietnam biggest winner from first year of the US-China trade war as supply chains shift, report shows
The economy of the southeast Asian nation was boosted by almost 8 per cent due to the shift in production as importers sought to avoid Donald Trump’s tariffs"
Xi's China can only dream of such a growth rate. And it will do whatever it takes to prevent further shifts
Vietnam would be foolish to use Huawei, that under the PRC
constitution must report, when asked, ALL information gathered.
https://www.scmp.com/economy/global-economy/article/3013067/vietnam-biggest-winner-first-year-us-china-trade-war-supply
14
Of course Hauwei is a security threat. Huawei is the essentially identical to the Chinese Communist Party. Everybody and everything in China must do what the Party wants. The Party comes before the Constitution and the Rule of Law. That's the whole point of Communism.
43
@ Right on!
5
@Amy I would expect no less of that from "public" companies like Google and Facebook and NSA.
1
Anything government officials say on against Huawei in a aggressive way would provoke the Chinese government, and they would experience more violence on the South China Sea. Sailors get shot, fisherman can't do business and sometimes got kidnapped by militarized Chinese fishing boats.
"Keep your friend close and your enemy closer"
6
....not always along the lines you might expect.
Only someone unfamiliar with history can write this.
For a thousand years China has tried to subjugate Vietnam and Vietnam has fought it
28
5G is in process and will be split along the lines already known. The real battle in my estimation is once established both sides will present evidence of spying. Then the real issues begin and there will be a global competition on the status of where one trusts their national security. I do not see the Chinese winning the rhetorical war on security. What is most uncertain is the position the Chinese will take when a country switches out from them. Nothing in tech is permanent this will be a forever battle.
1
That must be a rhetorical question. Any company inside China is a not only a threat, but poses a high risk. Even American companies doing business in China are vulnerable and make American consumers vulnerable to contaminated foods, medicines and other defective products. Now Huawei and other tech companies in China pose a different and widespread risk worldwide. No rule of law. No respect for sovereignty. No observance of individual freedom of religion, speech, movement or assembly. Chinese Communist Party officials have impregnated the C-Suite and boardrooms, not just in China, but in democracies everywhere, especially Taiwan and Australia. That influence and money is used to undermine governments and stifle free speech critical of China. If we let it, Winnie-the-Pooh will not only be banished in China (because its resemblance to Xi) but worldwide. Serious.
23
It's worth observing that not only is Viettel government owned, it is specifically owned by the Vietnamese military, even though civilian managed.
China actually ruled Vietnam directly for 1007 years over four periods of conquest beginning in 111 BC. Streets and parks throughout the nation are named for heroes of wars against China. Names such as Hai Ba Trung (Trung sisters), Tran Hung Dao, Le Loi, and Quang Trung and many others on public pathways and buildings are a constant reminder of who the real enemy is. The 20 year conflict with the US is a blip in the history of the nation. Even the recent conflict with China in 1979 seems to have a relatively minor impact in Vietnamese consciousness, but is considered maybe incorrectly as having an inevitable result. Vietnam definitely does have a love-hate relationship with China as there are the inevitable cultural remnants of conquest and China is Vietnam's largest trading partner, but most Vietnamese seem to wish it were otherwise.
24
It would be nice if an effort were made to ensure the integrity of those involved in matters of nat'l security were beyond reproach, but if that's too much, is it so unreasonable to nat'l security decisions to revolve on the profit factor?
2
In the early 60's, the US was worried about the "domino effect" of China making Southeast Asia communist. So we entered the Vietnam War to stop that from happening.
If we had only known the history of Vietnam and China, we would have known that the Vietnamese were centuries-long enemies of China, and that the best bulwark against China expansion was Vietnam. We would never have entered the Vietnam War had we known the history.
I'm not surprised by this development.
44
@Sirlar
We did kno the history of Vietnam. The problem in the 60s and 70s was a Russia-Vietnam alliance.
17
@Amy
Wrong.
Americans don't know history of other nations and also misinterpret the motives of those nations they are unfamiliar with.
In fact, Ho Chi Minh was supported by Mao Zedong, not Russia.
6
@Amy Then we didn't know about Russia-China history.
1
"Huawei has long denied that it takes orders from Beijing or that its products are a security risk."
.
This assertion asks the world to believe that, while every other large company in China has a required CCP cell embedded in it, their most strategic large company, their international telecoms champion, Huawei, founded and run by a former PLA officer, does not.
.
Right.
21
It is all about immediate interests and business. Vietnamese remember war with China, of course they also remember 5 million Vietnamese slaughtered by the US as well. But business is business, its survival instinct has to weight present danger as well as current advantages. It is better to take advantage of the situation during the trade war between US and China. But don't burn its bridge if things change.
6
@Sam
Our many million men died not by the America, but by the Chinese Communist started out all this mess...
1
Why should this be unexpected? They and China fought a war. They're competing for the same export business. If any country should be expected to be suspicious of China's motives, it's them.
19
"The battle for technological dominance between the United States and China is splitting the world in two, though not always along the lines you might expect."
The only people surprised by Vietnam's hostility to China are the same people who tend to assume that Asian communism is some sort of undifferentiated monolith. That's never been the case. It was never the case during the Vietnam War, and it's not the case now.
33
@AR
Exactly - this is not a surprise.
Mr. Zhong is not the ideal person to do this interview, it seems, if he doesn't know about the thousands of years of anti-Chinese sentiment in Vietnam.
7