““We invite the United States to return from this mistake that will cause irreparable wounds in our strategic relations,” the statement said.
The TURKS invited this problem and there is not any redeeming need to stay on better terms with Erdogan, a dictator. Unless they return the S400 system to the Russians we have a stalemate.
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The US needs to stop pretending it is business as usual when it comes to Turkey. It is not a secret that Mr. Erdoğan and his government have stopped trusting the US. The reasons for their mistrust go well beyond the fact that the US no longer feels it has to abide by the international law or any of its multi-lateral agreements.
For Turks, trusting the US has become difficult as many Washington decisions appear aimed at destabilizing their country.
First, the US intelligence agencies, in particular CIA, could have not been unaware of the coup d'état of 15 of July, 2016, by factions within Turkish military. Indeed, the attempted coup d'état was "one of the biggest in recent Turkish history" involving thousands of high ranking military officers. So it is inconceivable that "the mighty CIA" or its affiliated intelligence services in the region (Mossad of Israel's and Jordan's GID) were oblivious to it. So, the Turks have sensibly concluded that CIA was either behind the coup or knew about it and allowed it to proceed.
The second issue is the US decision to arm PKK fighters in Syria. PKK has been in military conflict with Turkey since 1984. The US decision to arm PKK to fight ISIS was vehemently opposed by Turkey. But the US disregarded Turkey's concerns and armed its deadliest enemy to the teeth. And, understandably, Turkey never took US claim that PKK will be returning all US weapons after the defeat of the ISIS, seriously.
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Doesn't this all just make you think Trump really is some kind of Russian agent?
He refuses to hold Putin's feet to the fire for anything and believes Putin more than our own intelligence agencies. He pooh poohs the Russian interference in our and Western elections... joking about it with Putin. He insults our closest allies and their leaders. He pulls the US out of our worlwide leadership positions and commitments.
Now he "punishes" Turkey and refuses to sell them and what do you think will happen? They will buy their fighters from Russia. Everything Trump does strengthens Russia. What's next?
Call me cynical, but when I add this to how he is purposely goading us to be at each other's throat politically at home, it all looks like a long term plot to destroy the US's political stability and Western democracy in general.
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"U.S. Punishes Turkey by Canceling Sale of Jets."
At this moment, when Turkey's economy is under tremendous pressure, US cancelling sales of highly expensive F-35 jets is not a punishment for Turkey. In fact, Turkey is more than happy not to carry the burden of buying those jets. The latest price tag for a single F-35 jet (without many of its bells and whistles) is $120 million and buying hundred of them costs Turkey more than 12 billions. Rest assured Mr. Erdoğan can find many better uses for those $12 billions.
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Does anyone really believe that the US under Trump would send troops to fight Russia anywhere? NATO is dead because Trump loves Putin and doesn't give a fig for treaties. If WW3 started tomorrow we'd be on the sideline. Why does Turkey need fighter jets? To fight Russia? No, to kill Kurds within their own borders. Within 5 years Russia will have bases there. Trump is the matchmaker in this dictatorial marriage.
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I don't follow these issues closely but if memory serves, the F-35s sold to the U.K. were (or at least the engines) were to be serviced in Turkey.
Why the Brits want them is another question.
The F-35 -- evidence that pigs can fly, sometimes.
@Fred The Brits want them for their new aircraft carrier. Assuming it manages to stay afloat, because right now it leaks like a sieve.
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Turkey's like the guy who couldn't book a stateroom on the Titanic. The F-35 is the greatest taxpayer boondoggle of our time.
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The users of the F-35 should count on that the F-35's stealth capability is allready compromised.
Ever since the downing of a F-117 Nighthawk in 1999 by a S-125 the russians (and probably the chinese) have had some knowledge on Lockheed stealth-design.
Since then Lockheed have improved their designs, but the same goes for different AAA-systems.
Besides from that, there is a problem with stealth.
One of the basics in combat is to keep track on current location of our planes (forces).
If we have a method, then expect the others also to have a method.
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@Frank Larsen
You seem to know your stuff. What is your opinion about the cancellation?
Thanks.
@Frank Larsen
the public continues to misunderstand stealth technology. First, the F117 used a completely different stealth concept called the hopeless diamond a design originally envisioned by a Russian designer, newer designs use body modeling on more normal designs to achieve similar results.
No stealth plane is invisible it simply has a lower radar signature. The idea is decrease the range at which the plane can be detected. In peace time, stealth aircraft always fly with radar reflectors in a effort in order to hide their true stealthiness. Furthermore, the stealth of an airplane is only one aspect of the overall stealth concept it also involves reams of real-time intelligence data of how overcome the enemy's air defense capabilities. The F22 and F35 are in effect mini AWAC platforms. The capabilities of the S400 system are way overblown and strain credibility just as they are for our own patriot missiles. Though it may be able to detect and engage something akin to a B52 at very long range. Their ability to engage much smaller nimbler and orders of magnitude stealthier aircraft is a fraction of that. In effect, missile systems such as these are simply first wave of attack candy to be blown up by such attack platforms. During the gulf war the first attack against anti aircraft defenses was performed by a bunch of decidedly non-stealthy apache helicopters that decimated Iraq's early warning radar!
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Lol this doesn't "punish Turkey" it punishes US manufacturers and NATO solidarity.
Turkey can use various jets to drop bombs, rather than the most expensive and complex and hence unreliable jet made. The features of the F35 are it's air superiority which is not a contest for Turkey against the likes of the Kurds or Syria, and it's high cost. Turkey will save money and lose no function, and better know who it's reliable allies are. Turkey is not Canada. We need Turkey, one of histories great geo-strategically placed nations, more than it needs us.
What we have here in total is what the eminent historian of geopolitics Stephen Kotkin illuminated with a riddle he tells on his recent world tour (for his massive and authoritative triple volume bio of Stalin). Kotkin teases, of geopolitics today:
Q. What's the difference between Russian foreign policy & American?
A. Russia has one.
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@CK stealth technology isn't required to bomb ISIS and taliban targets either. A B-52 does it just as well, or better. The F-35 is, however needed to keep the MIC fat and happy.
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@Ron The US Navy should bring back modernized versions of the A6 Intruder, A7 Corsair and F14 Tomcat. All were worthy, rugged, stable system that had been through the cycle of design, implementation and long term maintenance (i.e. they were up more than down). The F35 was designed by committee. The F/A 18 Hornet is neither a fighter nor an attack aircraft.
How exactly do we punish Turkey by not selling them 100 F-35s and by forfeiting the big profit that we were going to make?
So we punish them by shooting ourselves in the foot?
Now Turkey will have to develop indigenous tech or buy the Chinese equivalent. I really do not get what the author is saying.
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"Punishes"? What an ego we have.
We better get used to this. Our President has made a career of mocking, demeaning, lying to, outright betraying our business and military allies.
All signs are they've spent two years finding and developing alternatives to the US.
What has changed due to tariffs and lack of confidence in Trumps reliability, evidence of his utter lack of truthfulness and discretion, will not be changing back any time soon, Trump or no Trump.
We're a lone wolf country, soon to discover our military is woefully over-estimated (by us, of course, not many others), and our business sector which has focused elusively on profits and not processes or development, has few friends left.
Nice job, Trump.
Still, we have bully boys at State and the Pentagon bragging about blasting people back to the stone age and depriving them of our now thoroughly dated technology.
Its embarrassing...
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@oogada it’s Congress driving this sanction and any others. While I’m no DT supporter, he gets a pass on this one. Congress and the deep state own this and all the to come fall out.
@RogerW
Deep state? Really?
U.S. Punishes Turkey by Canceling Sale of Jets
What a croc!
"Sale" gladly paid for by the US taxpayers and financed by the EX-IM bank.
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This episode further demonstrates the incompetence of President Trump and his policies. We have a president who loses at playing checkers going up against an individual who is a master chess player (Putin) Now we know why Putin is such an advocate of Trump
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On a scale from 1-10,
Turkey is not a NATO ally.
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Amen!
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Of course, the Russians make mighty fine jet fighters. And they sell them.
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The fact that Turkey is drifting away from Nato and Europe is a big win for Russia and China. The question is whether this new reality is the inevitable result of waning US/European influence, or simply the consequence of bad policy over several administrations.
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@mp Or bad policy and personal affection for and collusion with dictators by the current administration.
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Good. Erdogan cannot have it both ways. I don’t know what kind of game he is playing, but he as about to get burned. He wants to keep cosying up to Putin. What if Putin marches on in to make Turkey a Russian satellite state. Russia has been trying to get those Ottoman lands for centuries. Warm water port, direct access to Mediterranean and control of the Bosporus shipping lanes. Good luck with this Erdogan, I hope you will be happy with end result.
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@M
You're reading yesterday's history.
And fighting yesterday's cold war.
That world isn't here anymore.
That United States no longer exists.
Putin is too smart, and too much beloved by Trump, to "march in and take over" anybody.
Besides, why would he want the headache?
He doesn't need to own Turkey, he just needs to reserve a room.
Like the South China Sea, our boys in Trumpland will bully up and talk big and do zero to stop a Putin/Erdogan romance.
First, because they don't know how. Second, because they're kind of scared. Third, because their Commander will be pouting alone in the Oval Office, wondering what Vlad is doing now.
As everybody, except the American people, already knows.
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@oogada
Many good points here about cold war dynamic and Turkey just being Putin's proxy, however geography does not change. I will not address Trump/Putin issue because I am not sure of the reality here. Russia is adept at playing in US politics whether it is a Republican or a Democrat in charge. Putin played Hillary like a flute.
Wow! A thoughtful response to Turkey's bad faith, refreshing from an administration normally known for its incompetence. Thank God that Trump hasn't seemed to notice.
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This is the most important news story of the past week because Turkey is at the literal crossroads of so many important issues.
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Turkey may be lucky to be released from the F35.
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@2fish ... and lose a ton of high tech jobs as well as access to the best available fighter technology money can buy? Befriending the USSR maybe made sense decades ago, but befriending Putin today gets Turkey nowhere while breaking with NATO and the EU.
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@Hamish seriously what has the EU and the US done for Turkey lately? The EU drags it’s feet on economic unification and the US arms it’s biggest enemy? With friends like us who needs enemies.
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"the S-400 and its radar systems could compromise the F-35’s stealth capabilities and jeopardize the fighter jet’s long-term security."
Er, how is that the case? Can one of you more knowledgeable people explain that "fact" to a layman? (It seems untenable and even ridiculous.)
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@Jim Muncy
I agree. The statement does not make sense to this layman as well. What I get out of this statement is that the S-400 will be used, or is at least capable of, defeating the purpose of the F-35. Better writing and explanation is needed. What exactly does the S-400 do?
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@Robert Plautz
The S-400 system is more than just a missile--it is also a radar. One of the costlier features of the F-35 is the ability to evade radar. If the Russians could test the S-400 against the F-35, they could figure out how to better detect it.
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@Michael
Thanks, Mike!
But if the Turks have it, how will it help the Russians? More Russian collusion?
1
One has to wonder... if there was a surgeon general for the entire planet... and this entity was tasked with identifying the greatest threat to the survival of life on the planet... I truly believe it would be Human Beings.
I think we have to finally look at ourselves, and say, we are one creepy, mean, destructive species!
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And by implication, the US as the world’s leader, what does that say about us? Since assuming the mantle post WWII, we seem increasingly headed down a darker and darker path, and the others are following.
1
Funny how that whole NATO thing turns out to be pretty important after all. Getting played so easily by his 'friends' Erdogan and Putin must sting a little in this deal-gone-awry (assuming Trump is paying attention to anything other than his Twitter tantrums).
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