Regardless of what House Speaker Nancy Pelosithinks about impeachment, the votes arfen't even close to being there for it. 218 votes are needed & there are now 80. Something dramatic will have to happen to change that calculus & that's without even considering the near impossibility of getting 20+ GOP senators to vote for conviction.
1
Could we please get back to a sane world? Let's begin by impeaching Trump. Now.
4
Dems are wet noodles. They won't fight for what's right. The base was fired up and the Dems have wasted that energy. I am telling you now, Dems lose in November because they chose not to fight in January and beyond. This is on the "leadership" of Pelosi and Shummer. Just gawd awful. Whimps.
5
Another Red Alert...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/us/politics/trump-white-house-social-media-summit.html
Expect the mass disinformation campaigns shift into higher gear.
While Democrats are dillydally with impeachment inquiry, the radical agenda is spreading it's assault
wings, with no fear of consequences.
The question persist, should Democrats fight fire with fire...
"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." Martin Luther King, Jr.
or...
"Fighting fire with fire only gets you ashes!" Abigail Van Buren.
3
Getting rid of Nancy Pelosi.
1
But for the subversive intervention by Russia, in advancing Trump’s presidential campaign while undermining Clinton’s, clearly Trump would not have become president; thus his presidency facially is illegitimate. And going way beyond anyone’s worst fears, in office, Trump has already shown himself to be the greatest threat to the national security, separation of powers, rule of law and our very democracy of any president in our history. Period!
Yet in the face of this, Speaker Pelosi and too many other Democrats – seemingly for reasons of pure political expediency rather than principle – can’t yet bring themselves to consider opening even an impeachment inquiry to confront the whole nation, as nothing short of that can, with Trump’s manifest high crimes and misdemeanors, the ever-growing threat his continuation in office represents, and the ignominy of his presidency and very being.
If all that would come out in Trump’s impeachment proved not enough for the Republican-controlled Senate to vote to remove him – as now looks likely – that refusal itself would make perhaps the most compelling argument Democrats could make for voting Democratic in 2020. The argument that the Democrats will prevail in 2020 if they don’t impeach Trump and lose if they do is unsupported by anything but counterintuitive conjecture.
The diffidence and inaction on impeaching Trump is as frustrating as it is misinformed and indefensible in any fact-based, principled terms.
6
impeach now, or forever fade into irrelevance
3
I find it beautiful that democrats are now relying on this article to defend Pelosi's strategy, saying it will work.
What it says is that it will take more than two years and needs a smoking gun bigger than the Mueller report. So, it won't work.
They also rely on it to say impeaching three months ago would have failed, because impeaching in 1972 would have failed. It would have because those resolutions in 1972-3 didn't focus on Watergate. Had they, the hearings and then the tapes would have most likely followed history's course. People just didn't know that evidence existed. Today, people want to impeach Trump on proven crime with legal evidence (aka ten counts of obstruction of justice), with the inquiry to get evidence for all other charges. But we already have damning evidence.
So this article's content actually condemns Pelosi's strategy.
But because it sounds like a defense people take it at face value.
Beautiful.
1
Who is the little girl in the smocked dress, reading, in the background?
Please, Democrats I’m begging you to impeach the President. For America Trump Pence 2020.
1
Voting to impeach Trump in the House before there are votes to convict in the Senate is a fools errand that will only strengthen Trumps hands. Let the committees investigate, let the facts come out, then impeach when conviction is a foregone conclusion.
3
Hi, That Impeachment ship has sailed. The only ones interested are the hard political left and the media. The media likes Impeachment, because it sells papers, clicks and airtime.
If you don't like Trump, I understand. I'm a Republican who would/could not vote for him. If you don't want him in office organize and vote him out. Please stop using Impeachment as a tool to create a 'vote of no confidence." That is not our system.
4
Nancy is using all her “well-learned politesse” while the soul of our nation is being laid to waste. I feel that’s too much of a Machiavellian approach, and if there’s anything we’ve learned from the presidency it that subtlety is the least effective tool in our arsenal.
Integrity demands impeachment; the egregiousness and enormity of Trump’s blatant violations of the Constitution he swore to uphold demand nothing less. Running on a platform of rock-solid integrity would be a good move for Democrats.
2
Since 2/3 of the Senate will not convict, this stupid effort would just convince the public that we Democrats are also fuzzy in the head and unfit to govern.
4
And if you manage impeach him, how do you get 67 senators to vote for conviction? That means almost 20 Republican senators voting for it.
Is your goal to raise your personal profile a la Tom Steyer, or simply to assure 4 more years of Trump in the White House. Either way, this is a profoundly stupid idea!
3
"Dance with thum wot brung ya." The Democrats should stick with what worked for them in 2016. They should keep their focus on economic issues, such as job and healthcare, while steering clear of anything divisive.
Pelosi has argued that there's not enough support among the voters. In fact, a June Quinnipiac poll showed that only 33% of respondents favored the start of impeachment proceedings even though many believed Trump had committed crimes in office. That number is up slightly from 29% in May, but it certainly doesn’t spell a groundswell of support for impeachment. http://tinyurl.com/y23fggar
Pelosi has also argued that impeachment will suck all the air out of Beltway politics, effectively sidelining all other issues, including the 2020 election. It will further divide the country. And the GOP will use it to tar the Democrats as out of touch with voters, further hurting their chances of beating Trump in 2020.
And all for what? The impeachment will die in the Senate. Trump will enter the 2020 campaign exonerated, his base fired up, and with a wind at his back.
There’s nothing in the Constitution that REQUIRES Congress to impeach. Those who argue that Congress has a "Constitutional responsibility" to impeach are wrong. There is no such thing. Whether to impeach is a political decision, and it has always been regarded as such. Congress is free to leave the judgment to the voters if it feels that is a less divisive and more certain means of redress—which it is.
5
The answer to the question is simple. All Democrats need to impeach Trump is a spine.
1
Perhaps if the Democrats showed some moral courage they might actually get more votes than they would lose by continuing to show fear and weakness in holding hearings where subpoenas are ignored or holding them in private at the request of witnesses who then refuse to answer questions. Beginning genuine impeachment hearings would at least give them the leverage they need to enforce subpoenas and compel witness testimony. It is not even required that their conclusions be submitted to the Senate for trial.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/impeach-trump-but-dont-necessarily-try-him-in-the-senate/2019/06/05/22d83672-87bc-11e9-a870-b9c411dc4312_story.html?utm_term=.a0074243aa6a
People all over the world--at least those not entirely intellectually and morally defective--are hoping passionately that Democrats realise their responsibility to nominate an electable candidate. The Democrats have a shaky moral track record themselves, but surely anything is better than the grotesque criminal gasbag and foul rabble of sycophants energetically eroding longstanding alliances, destroying your democracy, and cheerleading tyrants. Please, folks, get rid of this evil creep.
3
What Will It Take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump?
House Speaker Pelosi changing her mind about the best interests of the DP relative to the best interests of our Nation.
The last sentence says it all.
The comment about Mr. McConnell leads because Mr. McConnell's behavior, like Mr. Trump's, evidences a lack of respect for constraints on power. I've heard lots of speculation about why Ms. Pelosi does not support impeachment. Either she does not believe it is appropriate to constrain Mr. Trump or she does not believe that impeachment will actually lead to a constraint on Mr. Trump. Both of these possibilities are chilling, because the consequences of unconstrained power--whether it is exercised by Mr. Trump or anyone else--are grave.
My understanding of the constitution is that it is a document that is meant, above all, to ensure a constraint a power through a system of checks and balances. These people in Congress who refuse to support impeachment may not be violating their oath to support the constitution by some sort of specious argument or another, but they are certainly turning their backs on the spirit of the document.
Or, chillingly again, they are giving tacit admission to the notion that the Constitution--a document that so many have given their lives for--is a failed piece of work, insufficient to prevent the circumstances that can give rise to tyranny, if not tyranny itself.
2
Good commentary.
But remember, Nixon's response was very different than Trump's. Nixon knew that he had done something wrong and hunkered down in the Oval Office. For Trump, survival is reflex, so he counterattacks. Nixon obeyed Congressional subpoenas for the incriminating tapes; Trump ignores subpoenas and continues to appoint complicit judges. Dems don't control the Senate, as they did in 1972.
It's a difference of will. Trump's will is relentless. That's his real strength. He doesn't abide by a common moral code, much less the law. Dems have never faced someone so willful. And that's why they are stymied.
Dems' refusal to respond with the power of impeachment is a national tragedy. Trump's response to the Mueller Report provides a future roadmap for tyranny.
6
Impeach him for what? I ask, and wait patiently for an answer. And get none.
8
for the worse President Pence who is more likely to get solid GOP and moderate support, I think, ensuring a GOP win in 2020.
1
@Nobis Miserere
Article i. Dereliction of Duty, including but not limited to
Aiding and Abetting an enemy’s cyberattack, both before and after the attack, Obstructing the inquiry into the attack by witness tampering.
Article II Abuse of Power” preventing Congress from pursuing legitimate inquiries
Article III. Violation of the Emoluments Clause
Article IV. Failure to faithfully execute the laws of the US
25
@Nobis Miserere Ten counts of obstruction of justice, as detailed in the report.
And that's before the impeachment inquiry can check every other allegation.
12
What was in the note passed to many at the Bush funeral??
Leverage ???
2
Democratic! It’s not Democrat as an adjective. Whose side are you on?
1
Que sera sera, but the Trump regime continues to control the sociopolitical narrative by virtue of its superior infowars apparat. Democrats are trying to work through the conventions that are in a (hopefully temporary) anomie.
2
I don't see any path to conviction, but perhaps impeachment is the right thing to do. At least it would get the information out there. I think most Americans would be horrified if they knew what was in the Mueller report; it is a damning journal of a range of criminal actions carried out by the president. If he were a private citizen he would have been indicted. Our unwillingness to take action against him does not speak well of us as a country.
3
Get off this bandwagon and focus on winning at the ballot box
In case you haven’t heard, the R’s control the senate so this is a dead end
We know the porn star President is unfit for office, so beat him at the election in Nov 2020
2
Actually I believe Pelosi is waiting to get as close as possible to the Presidential elections. The logic goes like this:
If Trump loses the election no need to Impeach! And, of course, dancing in the streets and maybe just maybe Trump will serve jail time.
If Trump wins the elections, a real possibility, then Democrats may still win the Senate and the Congress and then Impeachment is on during the start of Trump's second term.
These are the obvious "realist" positions that Pelosi is taking with her inaction thus far.
Every day Trump remains President, the common man suffers just a bit more. On simply two issues: Climate Change and the Wealth Gap, Trump is an affront. He must go. But wishing him gone won't work of course. We need to a unified and honest front for the Common Man. If the democrats don't clearly communicate this to the non-intellectual electorate, we are lost.
Even so - getting the Senate and the Congress may be possible. Let us hope.
1
I really think we gotta stop comparing this to Nixon. Trump's crimes are so voluminous, so non-stop, so dizzying, that under normal circumstances, he would have been impeached 100 times over. Nixon was a bad hombre, but the corruption was not quite as an epidemic as it is under Trump. Democrats aren't united behind impeachment, because 43% of the electorate is hypnotized by Fox News. They can't un-hypnotize them. They're looking for practical options, and impeachment, while it sounds nice, ain't gonna go anywhere with a Republican senate.
1
But there is another factor that I haven't seen people speak about: Is replacing Trump with Pence really a good thing? Because Mike Pence doesn't have an orange face or ridiculous hair, and because he has the ability to speak in full sentences, people make the assumption that he is a normal human being. He is not. He wants America to be a Theocracy, with him the American version of an Ayatollah. Added to this, he might actually work better with Mitch than Trump does and be more effective than Trump at introducing the Republican agenda; simply because he has mastered concepts like object permanence and the like.
Not that Trump will be impeached of course...not as long as the decision effectively lies with an amoral kleptocrat from Kentucky who really runs the Senate. But I'm just saying. Pelosi is stuck between a rock and an idiot.
18
@Paul
It doesn't matter if it's a "good thing" to replace Trump with Pence. It is the "right thing" to do. We don't neglect to imprison a murderer simply because another murderer may be out there somewhere. Impeachment is the right thing to do, and it is an imperative that The Congress is charged with pursuing Impeachment. By delaying Impeachment proceedings, Nancy Pelosi is delaying justice. She is failing to fulfill her constitutional duty to We The People.
4
To date Pelosi has authorized her caucus to issue 80 subpoenas.
NONE have been complied with.
The House JC has just issued 12 more.
While this is a nice walk through history the fact is for the past 2 years Trump has slow walked a Saturday Night Massacre with his firings and "investigating the investigators".
In addition, Pelosi is trying to slow walk an impeachment but instead all she is doing is turning off her base and giving Trump free hand to do whatever he wants, including defying a recent SCOTUS ruling on the census and the immigration round ups scheduled for the weekend.
Pelosi cannot answer what her goal is with all the subpoenas that no one answers to and which she will not go to court to enforce.
An impeachment INQUIRY would provide an answer.
Liberals love to point to the polls showing low public support for impeachment. But that is not what we are talking about here. An inquiry is meant to INFORM, not REMOVE.
Besides, last November the people opined by a net of TEN MILLION votes for Democrats over Republicans for Congress that they want the House to be a check on TRump.
1
“House Democrats were keenly aware that President Nixon had won re-election in a 49-state landslide in 1972.”
If that sentence doesn’t clearly distinguish then from now, I don’t know what does. The Democrat’s don’t need to push a landslide back up the mountain. They just need to win back a relative handful of Obama voters who refused to vote for Clinton. It’s not clear that a well worn path will get the Democrats what they seek. If nothing else, not impeaching Trump ends up making them barely distinguishable from the other side. How does that help?
2
While it is possible that Pelosi has something up her sleeve that will be far more damaging to Trump and the Republican party than simply an impeachment of the man, let us do a scenario analysis:
1. Mostly likely outcome: An impeachment if it fails, almost guarantees a second term for Trump because he will play the failure to his audience and to some on the fence
2. Less probable outcome: Even if the House succeeds in impeaching him, the Senate will almost certainly refuse to find him guilty at the next stage of the trial giving Trump a victory of sorts : He will hold the House Democrats guilty of vengeance and play it to his advantage
3. Low probability outcome: If the House impeaches him and the senate follows up with a guilty verdict, then the next likely incumbent not only garners the support of the Trump faithful but possibly also has a higher chance (standalone) of doing well against a Democratic challenger in the presidential election.
A far better outcome is to let Trump go about his merry ways for the next 14 months and then wait for some bad news to percolate through which will sour the taste of many more Americans. The goal has to be not just to embarrass Trump but to deal the whole Republican party a bad label.
Yes, having Trump as president is not only distasteful but also an embarrassment and a shame. However, the continuing existence of the Republican party as a viable alternative in the halls of the legislature is an even bigger shame.
2
Two words: 'Good Sense'. Speaker Pelosi is well aware of what followed after the 1990's Gingrich Republican Congress chose to invest their entire political capital on trying to checkmate Bill Clinton's Administration via the Monica Lewinski scandal. Nancy P. was there when even after $26 million dollars of wasted taxpayer money and 2 years of the most salacious testimony in the history of Television, the GOP ended up summarily getting themselves kicked out of office by a legion of angry voters who were more fed-up with the do-nothing Republicans who had led that televised Clown parade, then they were convinced that Clinton's election needed to be nullified by Congressional fiat (rather then by the ballot box).
I strongly suggest that if our Party wants to take back the White House they listen to the old fox Pelosi and focus on convincing the voting public how their Democratic platform will help make the their lives easier and more that of thier children more productive; rather then making impossible pie-in-the sky promises to them and dwelling on how bad Trump is (Trump, in point of fact, is already doing a bang-up job of doing that himself, and needs no help from the rest of us).
2
I share in the desire to truncate Trump’s tenure either through impeachment or the ballot box. If Congress, however, chooses to take the first approach it had better unite behind exactly which “high crimes and misdemeanours” they are prosecuting him for. Ultimately it must be the American people who impeach Trump and it is they (sitting as a non-voting jury) who will decide whether the impeachment is motivated by palpably criminal activity or mere partisanship.
1
If they refuse to impeach, they prove that this whole episode was just political grandstanding. We already knew that though.
If there are serious concerns over Russia's influence over our system, and if the Democrats are honestly and legitimately concerned about democracy, they'll impeach.
I suspect they expected to find more. They started with the assumption that where there's smoke, there's probably fire, but that proved wrong, or did it? They can prove it by impeaching.
Otherwise, the rest of us are safe to ignore it. When politicians start standing up and doing what is right rather than what is perceived to be politically expedient, then I'll pay attention again.
They take polls up the wazoo and base every action on the results. That is the essence of US political corruption today -- base all decisions upon polling data. Who cares about anything else, right? If the polls say go to war, they'll go to war (why? who knows, the polls say so). Just wait until Russia can reliably hack our polls!
3
What would it take? Republican support for impeachment in the Senate.
The Speaker of the House is correct in her assessment that anythings short of bipartisan support in favor of impeachment (in both houses) would be doomed to failure -- and simply backfire on the Democrats politically in the 2020 elections. If they tried (and failed) to impeach President Trump, it would simply lend support to President Trump in his bid for reelection.
People seem to overlook the fact that, until the discovery of the "smoking gun" of the secret tape recordings made in the Nixon White House (revealing his criminal conduct while in office for all to see) there was no bipartisan support for the impeachment of President Nixon, either.
Until something of similar magnitude emerges to reveal criminal activity on the part of President Trump, there will never be bipartisan support for his impeachment (and removal from office).
1
The main difference between Trump compared to both Clinton and Nixon is that Trump is in his first term, Nixon and Clinton were in their second when the level of scandal reached impeachment or voting for a procedure to impeach. Now, given the best scenario of organizing hearings, conducting hearings, fighting off whatever challenges team Trump would try to block via the courts, by the time the actual House vote would take place, it could well be either late this year or into early next year. Assuming the House votes to impeach, you then have to go through a trial in the Senate. If the Senate convicts, we'd have President Pence for some time, then Pence and some other person standing for election. Given the more reasonable probability that the Senate wouldn't convict, given the current makeup, Trump would use this as vindication, the end of a persecuting "witch hunt" against him and his administration. I don't believe there's anything in the Constitution that would prevent someone impeached, but not convicted, from running for a second term. Not to mention that he'd still be a sitting president until 2021 if not re-elected and thus immune from any criminal prosecution. If re-elected, we wait until 2025.
2
It seems that the world is moving too fast for Washington. Muller's (redacted) report was released to the public April 18. 2019. The report offered a clear roadmap to impeachment.
Remember, articles of impeachment can include charges for acts that are not violations of specific laws. For instance, "collusion", which has no legal definition, could be a valid count for impeachment. So could be lying to congress even while not under oath.
But here we are on July 11, 2019, still engaged in political metaphysics. Support shifts with every new poll.There was a time when the Washington establishment tended the nation's business between elections, but no more. Impeachment is beyond its diminished abilities.
2
Unite Democrats? All it might take is for Mueller to verbally and publicly clarify to Congress in his upcoming testimony under oath that indeed, Trump did commit ten acts of what would be considered obstruction by a district attorney. If he is clear in the areas where his report was not, it could very well be what's needed to propel impeachment proceedings forward.
1
"If the detailed evidence in the Mueller report about obstruction of justice did not sway Ms. Pelosi"
Pardon me, but a report redacted by Trump's stooge - and without the accompanying testimony and documentation - does not really give ANYone in Congress the ability to make a call.
1
I think Pelosi is right. Trump will self impeach. In other words, he will give the country even more reasons to impeach him if we just wait long enough. He has no fear of Congress or his new Supreme Court which may even have another Trump Judge before 2020. He almost owns the majority in the Court now. He's untouchable and now he has William Barr to make sure he remains untouchable until he leaves office. Democrats will have to wait until trump turns on the Supreme Court or declares martial law or begins encouraging armed white militias to target his critics in Congress or anywhere else who dare oppose him before even the Senate says enough is enough and enough Republicans want to join Pelosi in giving Trump the impeachment he clearly deserves. What will it take for that to happen? Ask the 80% white evangelicals and the average Joe what it will take to admit that lucha-libre wrestling is fake.
1
Pelosi is bad for the Democratic Party and VERY BAD for the United States of America.
The democrats who elected her speaker made a huge mistake and they should take immediate steps to remove her as speaker.
The Jefferson Manual, written by Thomas Jefferson when he was Vice President, and used by the House as a supplement to its standing rules, in Section 9 states that “A Speaker may be removed at the will of the House and a Speaker pro tempore appointed.”
3
@Alabama The overwhelming majority of Democrats in the House think Pelosi is doing a great job, gave her a standing ovation the other day. So whether she is making the right call or the wrong call on impeachment, she does have strong support at the present time.
Having said that, I do think a scenario is possible by which Democrats in the House might eventually regret not passing a bill of impeachment.
1
Since the Mueller report and the continuing behavior of Mr. Trump (his behavior as "president" is not what is or has been in the past, the expected behavior of a U.S. president. If the time isn't now for impeachment, then what will it take? In my 76 years, this is the first time I have really felt ashamed of the U.S. Congress. If this kind of behavior was happening in another country, we would call it's leadership cowards if they didn't remove their president. I'm not proud of the Senate for the first in my 76 years and won't be until Trump is out . . . his personal behavior as well as that as president is not that of what I have always believed to be that of the President of the United States. Had President Obama behaved in the same manner as Trump, he would have been impeached in a heartbeat . . . or another other president in our history. These times make me think of the history of the Roman Empire and its ending.
1
It will take a Democratic Senate.
3
Animus towards Donald Trump is not enough reason to impeach him. Meanwhile this current House has precious little accomplishment to show for itself besides anti Trump grandstanding
5
The greatest challenge is there isn’t anything to impeach him for. Russian collusion? What Russian collusion?
4
If not trump, who? If not now, when?
A quixotic Democratic push for impeachment would fail to remove Trumpolini from office. It would empower him and give him partisan strength going into the election. It would strengthen the entire GOP.
But it would be a great analogy for liberal Democratic politics: feeling good, looking good and Tweeting good, rather than winning elections in order to wield legislative power.
2
lets not forget that impeachment took place in nixon's second term. there was no concern that impeachment might help him get reelected to a second term. also there wasnt the concern that the republican party was full of nixon enablers whose support assisted nixon in his criminal endeavors. trump by comparison might seek to use the military to stay in power.
getting the impeachment issue right has a much greater significance today than it did back then
2
Get a Senate majority, so we can convict him, and also to shut him down if he wins a second term, which the circumstances of incumbency support him right now. For a Senate majority to happen, progressives need to acknowledge that much of the actual electorate (not Twitter) is still moderate. We won't score any points outside of New York and California for satisfying the progressive thirst for blood. Let us not forget that one of the many reasons Trump even occupies the White House is because progressives/liberals/Democrats ignored three critical states in 2016-- all of them considered "flyover states" because of how East and West coast elitists dismiss their political significance.
For Pelosi and the moderates to convince red states that voted for Trump to give us a Senate majority, we have got to march in lockstep on healthcare, jobs and the economy. And we absolutely must shut up about everything else until we've got a majority in BOTH houses.
Then we can discuss impeaching Trump if we lose the White House. But priorities first, people. That's how we get there. Priorities.
2
The difference is that this time, a special counsel, who was clearly anti-Trump and had an anti-Trump team, did a massive investigation of the President and came up with nothing. Could find nothing on the main issue -- collusion -- and came up with patently silly claims on obstruction that he didn't have the guts to call obstruction. Given that report, no Republican will join the Democrats on an impeachment, the Senate would laugh out of the chamber any impeachment, and the American people don't want to waste time on it. Pelosi is reading the situation correctly.
3
"If the detailed evidence in the Mueller report about obstruction of justice did not sway Ms. Pelosi, what will?"
How about some evidence, which you don't bother to provide, that an impeachment won't strength Trump and assure his re-election?
Impeachment, with Republicans controlling the Senate, is an exercise in self-righteous indignation, but little more. Politically, it is counter-productive.
2
The most recent Gallup poll on impeachment showed 81% of Democrats supporting impeachment. https://news.gallup.com/poll/259871/trump-approval-remains-low-40s.aspx Whereas Trump does anything he can contrive to unify and excite his base, Pelosi does everything she can imagine to ignore her base - not a picture of a smart politician counting votes and mobilizing them. Also, if Democrats do not open impeachment hearings, the GOP and Trump will assert in 2020 that Democrats agree Trump did nothing to warrant impeachment, supporting his claim that the whole thing was a witch hunt. Finally, our 2016 election was attacked by Russia and Trump welcomed their help, signaling this. (Russia, if you’re listening ...) If Democrats do not open impeachment hearings, they will never determine why Mueller did not charge Trump with election law violations, as @jedshug argues he should have in his 7/10/19 Daily Beast article, “Mueller messed up: Trump did coordinate with Russia”.
4
Is overruling the Supreme Court enough? Enough!
2
Three words to give everyone pause: "President Mike Pence".
2
I think the reality of an obstructionist Trump supporting at all cost GOP Senate is the ONLY real obstacle. They have propped up and enabled the corruption and to not continue to do so is like signing their resigniations. This is a self serving not Public serving Senate.
1
Donald Trump may be a liar and a criminal, but he is clearly not stupid. He will use an impeachment to claim he is a victim of what he will say are "out of control, leftist, and un-American Democrats." And there is little doubt that not only will his base rally to his defense, but so too will those who dislike his style of leadership and are presently inclined to vote against him. And he will snatch victory in 2020 from the jaws of humiliating defeat. The very best verdict, the one that will prove to history that America is far better than he, will be his convincing electoral loss. Democrats need every ounce of energy, determination and organization to win the 2020 election. Why waste all of that to impeach, merely to say Democrats upheld the rule of law, when the Republican controlled Senate will surely exonerate him? Lock him up our nation must do - but that will ONLY occur if the American people render their own negative judgement of him at the ballot box.
2
The big difference with Watergate is that the spying was done this time around by Clinton, Obama and Biden on the Democratic side. Candidate and then President Trump was the target.
Nixon only covered up the spying, these three were aware of it BEFORE it happened.
It is indeed good time to put these monsters, Clinton, Obama and Biden, away. Trump will likely be kind to pardon them before they go to Rikers, like Ford did for Nixon.
Fortunately for all of us, as the NY Times is starting to acknowledge, that is precisely what is going on now. Horowitz, Barr, Durham and others are at it.
Trump has stated that he might start a civil lawsuit against the DNC, fo having harassed him and thus the country with made up stuff for two years. One can only imagine the figure.
There are interesting times ahead..
PS The idea of impeaching the victim, Trump, is as preposterous as the lawsuit brought by a burglar who cut his hand in the window he broke for entering...
Not that such lawsuits don't happen. They just don't succeed.
What will it take? I think it will take the FBI finding a photograph of Trump with a little girl in Jeffrey Epstein's safe. Unfortunately, I think they're more likely to find a photograph of Bill Clinton in there.
1
The DP is home to mostly politicians afraid of their shadow as opposed to the GOP who fear doing nothing regardless of the consequences. I am still registered as a Republican although voting Democratic since 1992 after Bush Sr said “read my lips, no new taxes” and raised them anyway. Thereafter, Gringrich’s Conservative “Contract with America” soured my moderate position in the GOP. I am maintaining my registration waiting for the GOP’s Fascist populism phase to burn itself out.
3
Democrats cannot impeach Trump now, due to Tom Steyer. The fact that Tom Steyer is a Chinese Asset who is running for president after pouring in millions of dollars into a company whose sole occupation was impeaching Trump looks REALLY bad for the prospects of impeachment.
Nothing could be a bigger mistake at this point. Tom Steyer is entirely to blame. It's not Democrats fault that one of the most insideous and despicable men in the United States is a Democrat. Although it makes sense to a certain degree that the true worst of the worst people want to hide amongst those who seek to be the best, because they are more easily taken advantage of.
Tom Steyer is a disgrace to men everywhere. A disgrace to short men everywhere. A disgrace to the very concept of intelligence. A disgrace to women, because some have chosen to even reproduce for him (allegedly). He is a disgrace to insecure people. He is a disgrace to Democrats and he is a disgrace to billionaires.
Nothing and no one is a bigger disgrace than Tom Steyer. In fact, if the election was between him and Thanos I would truly give Thanos a good hard look, because at least Thanos is honest. Tom Steyer is not. He has always preferred hateful dishonest schemes to hateful honest ones. He hates everyone, and there is nothing even remotely plausible about his goals besides his own hegemony and enslavement of the rest of our species.
As long as Tom Steyer is free, impeachment is a bad joke.
Just a vivid and suggestive phrase--"ths smoking gun."
I well remember the "Saturday night massacre." I turned to my Dad (an staunch supporter of Mr. Nixon) and gasped, "He'll be impeached!"
My Dad nodded grimly. "Yes. . .yes, I think so. . . ."
Then the "smoking pistol" of that final tape. Summer of '74. In which it was dreadfully apparent: this President had consciously and explicitly striven to obstruct justice.
What haunts me in the case of Mr. Donald J. Trump is--
--no smoking gun.
Patterns, oh yes! Dear me, yes! Gross improprieties of conduct, oh yes. Patterns of obstructive behavior, oh yes. Patterns of behavior that are pretty darn suspicious, oh yes. Invincible contempt of Congress (particularly the House), oh yes. Ignorance and contempt for the Constitution, almost certainly.
All this besides an almost incredible UNFITNESS for the job of President. Morally and intellectually the guy really IS--bankrupt. There's nothing there but show and razzle-dazzle.
BUT--
--no smoking gun.
Nothing that would make a stalwart Tea Partier in Florida or South Carolina sit up suddenly--slap her brow--and exclaim, "Now THAT--goes too far. THAT--goes WAY too far!"
Maybe NOTHING would ever make this obdurate Tea Partier do such a thing. Who knows?
My heart goes out to Ms. Pelosi. She's got a hard row to hoe.
We'll get through this, America. Somehow or other--
--we'll get through this.
Trust me.
1
However difficult the decision to impeach this most-corrupt and justice-obstructor Ugly American in-chief is, the constitution demands he be judged and call to order, as Trump has been consistent in one, and only one, thing: trampling on this suffering democracy, placing himself above the law, all to satisfy his sick ego. It seems as though tolerance may be confused with complicity if we sit idle and let him sink us into oblivion. But, if the people choose to re-elect this rascal, they would, shamefully as it is, deserve his misrule. Can anybody envision the danger of a fascist oligo-pluto-kleptocracy to this so-called free society? One thing is for sure; without justice, societal peace shall remain just a distant dream. And we all may have to atone to it.
1
You open yahoo US and there is an armored car that spilled 300 K $ on the highway. Armored !
Then a mother drives with her 2 daughters sitting in the inflatable pool on the roof of her car ( a very nice brand new SUV ) !
She says with good faith it is because she wanted them to keep the pool from flying away ...
That is Great America .
In the Senate and the Congress it is about the same kind of intelligence and efficiency.
But less funny.
1
We dare them. Double dare, in fact. No less than 40 of their number will go the way of the stegosaurus, even when they are given a "pass" on that vote by their Empress. We know their districts, we know their voters' roles by heart and their tag will be 'Frisco/Greenwich Village politicians. Their voters will hate that; we will love it of course. Fire your blank cartridges whenever you figure out which end of the blunderbuss to load them into. We can wait.
1
"So foul a sky clears not without a storm."
-Shakespeare, King John
1
I swear, I don't understand the motives of today's Speaker.
In this retrospective on Watergate, it took time and an escalation of abuses by Nixon for the Democrats to unite on an impeachment inquiry.
Yet, compared to today, the crimes of Watergate seem like a warm-up for today's horrow show where the president acts with impunity on a weekly basis.
From the Mueller Report's rich detail on eager acceptance of Russian help to win an election and 10-11 incidents of obstruction of justice to the the president's blocking of Congressional oversight and run-around a Supreme Court census ruling, this administration embodies abuse of power.
We either have a constitution, or we don't. We either have rule of law, or we don't. The speaker is so focused on the next election to right Trump's wrongs, she's ignoring the flow of constitutional crises unfolding right before her eyes.
398
@ChristineMcM
So true...how solid do we think our "democratic" system is when the courts overflowing with the outright conservative judges, who in most cases seemed to work literally at the "pleasure" of the president, how much risk democrats take in their "approaching constitutional crisis" hollow pronouncements, when most everyone watching this saga closely would agree that we been in this crisis since he invaded the WH.
The Age of Ambiguity is upon us!
Great Op-Ed!
35
@ChristineMcM
Her motives are to win the game for us, winning being an absolute precondition to being able to do the right and ethical things in government.
We clearly don't have absolute rule of law (which country does?), we just have a country that did moderately well in convincing its populace that it did, and they should, follow the rule of law, at least to the satisfaction of the majority. The degree of conformance to this has dropped vastly under the Republican regime (going back at least as far as Gingrich), but no mistake, it's always a matter of degree.
26
@ChristineMcM
AMEN, Christine. It all comes down to CONSCIENCE. And the courage to stand up for the Constitution, the Rule of Law.
33
The problem I see with impeachment is an evidentiary one. An impeachment is an indictment but it must be evidence based. The Mueller Report (I’ve read it) contains that evidence but is based on testimony of witnesses who worked for or around Trump. None of them, except Michael Cohen, will testify without a court order and Trump and the Republicans will fight each case all the way to the Supreme Court. There is no hope of interim cooperation. It is most unlikely therefore that an impeachment can be accomplished prior to the 2020 election.
Perhaps Speaker Pelosi recognizes this and is content to inflict whatever damage she can by other means
9
@Peter E Derry If the House begins impeachment proceedings there will be no court dragging its heels on enforcing the Committee's subpoenas. The power of subpoena will be upheld and testimony will be only one of two choices for those compelled to appear. The other choice? Jail. They'll talk.
7
@Peter E Derry Do not fall for her propaganda. It is her job to impeach him. And Mueller's report is good enough. Does not matter if the Senate does not agree. All the dirty linen will be out there visible to the public and will wake people up and can be used daily by the Democrats in the election and those who vote against impeachment of a clearly very guilty president will eventually have to pay for it by losing their cushy jobs. Also makes it clear that no one is above the law, even cute Nancy
4
I too remember the Nixon years. He was crook, pretty much from the beginning, but he pales in term of serious corruption as compared to the current "president". Although Republicans then were -- shall we say -- faithful when faced with Nixon's prospective impeachment, there were some others with integrity. And, over time, more came around.
Whether or not the current Trumpian party is capable of integrity is questionable. But what is unquestionably is that Trump has engaged in impeachable activity many times over. Hence, I suspect that impeachment is inevitable (let's see Trump's citizenship addition to the census and Mueller's appearance next week).
6
There is a very instructive Op-Ed by two political scientists: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/opinion/politicians-voters.html According to them politicians don't care about what voters think. The article was mostly about State and local politicians but Ms. Pelosi's actions shows clearly she does not care about what her voters think.
We'll see more of Trump's egregious policies in actions but what is one more on top of all that he as already done? If establishment Democrats don't at least start impeachment hearings, call it something else if you are afraid, voters like myself will get turned off to the political process.
She is not playing a masterful strategic game, she is working on a playbook from the Nixon and Clinton days. Trump changed that playbook but Pelosi has no clue on how that will end.
I suspect if she sits on her hands for voters to deliver a resounding victory for Democrats in 2020, she might be waiting for a long time.
1
@Gary Valan, I think you're right that "Ms. Pelosi's actions show clearly she does not care about what her voters think." Pelosi said that the squad led by A. Ocasio-Cortez represents only four votes! She completely overlooked the many thousands of voters who sent this freshman group to D.C. to represent them.
1
The reason that impeachment won't happen (barring some unforeseen event) is that the United States spent a small fortune investigating the Democrats' charges of collusion, and Mueller did not find any.
Nor did Mueller find obstruction of justice, even if he did not clear Trump of it. But, in any case, the obstruction story has no legs because even if there was obstruction, Trump was obstructing an investigation into something he did not do.
The saner Democrats realize that, without a mutinous mood in the public, impeachment won't fly. Worse, the public will see it as sour grapes and as vindictiveness on the part of the losers of the last Presidential election the party that lost the bet it could use the collusion story to overturn that election.
The public is already uneasy about the mental and emotional stability of the Democrats. Speaker Pelosi just might save AOC's political future.
6
The wealthy old white men are very happy with Trump, so save your impeachment energy for creating a solid, unifying, Democratic policy towards health care, immigration, and climate change. Money talks loud in America. And remember: Nixon wasn't rich.
That he got the heave-ho for stealing a few pieces of paper from Democrats is almost funny - he bombed Cambodia! However, Nixon was an amateur compared to Trump. Nixon left a trail of tapes, whereas Bone Spurs has mastered the art of implausible but effective deniability. I'm thinking that Pelosi understands the situation better than any of us.
2
Never going to happen the Democrats are not a party they are a gang of individuals who are just as happy to fight each other as they are to take on the GOP, if not more so. They seem incapable of getting out of their own way, it's like watching politics as performed by the Three Stooges. Not only will the fail to impeach Trump they will ignominiously lose to him again in 2020, at which point I think we can squarely place blame on every single one of them as much as the GOP for being Trump's enablers.
1
As Richard Painter tweeted yesterday, impeachment will happen or a new Speaker will happen. That new Speaker may be a Republican if Pelosi continues to dither in the face of blatant criminality, blatant obstruction of justice, blatant abuse of office?
And will the new scandal be video of Trump and Epstein and underage girls? Will that even move her? Concentration camps on the border didn't do it.
6
A majority in the senate.
3
While I think the matter of impeachment should not be taken off the table, the House Democrats must consider WHEN would be the best time to initiate it.
At some point, the House Democratic leadership will have to draw a line upon which it will stand up to the present occupant of the Oval Office, who has already engaged in acts that could be judged as being in violation of the Constitution. (Example: the ongoing lawsuits against the administration for violating the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.)
The time for action may be precipitated by the administration's stated intention to issue an executive order to proceed with the inclusion of a citizenship question on the 2020 Census form, despite the recent Supreme Court decision to block such an inclusion. Such an executive order -- if allowed to stand -- would make a mockery of the principle of separation of powers that is an essential part of our democratic system. We would then have A FULL-BLOWN CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS on our hands.
We citizens must be vigilant and, if need be, make our voices heard and our presence felt in the hundreds of thousands (bordering on millions) on Capitol Hill and the White House (as well as at the local offices of several GOP Senators up for re-election next year; approx. 22 of them will be up for re-election).
The present occupant of the Oval Office must be compelled to see that he has to abide by the law and the Supreme Court decision on the 2020 Census.
2
Conway makes a very good point! Politicians were on the fence even after the Saturday night massacre. But when it came out that they had Nixon on tape most politicians voted to impeach.
Without Trump on tape or video you can't get to 67 in the senate. And anyone who thinks they can believes in clean coal and unicorns. Nancy believes in neither.
There's nothing Centrist or Moderate about refusing to defend the Constitution's Separation of Powers which are the basis for Congress' power of oversight and the duties that go with it. Nancy Pelosi says she'd like to see Trump in prison but protects him from being held accountable. What must Mueller think after saying no President should be above the law and Congress could hold Trump accountable? Then the Speaker, who is exquisitely sensitive about anti Semitism, attacks and ridicules four young Democrats: two black, two Muslim and a Hispanic who believe that they should work for an FDR type Green New Deal to save the world from the existential threat of Climate Change and serve the voters that elected them. What can we expect from the Pelosi Democratic Party that seems to have forgotten the Immigrant concentration camps when working with Trump on a bill, and offers no solutions on Health care or the problems that face many ordinary Americans. America is the Constitution and our Democracy and both are under attack. Impeach Trump and demonstrate in the impeachment process how he has damaged the country and filled his pockets with money instead of governing for the public good. .
4
While I think the matter of impeachment should not be taken off the table, the House Democrats must consider WHEN would be the best time to initiate it.
At some point, the House Democratic leadership will have to draw a line upon which it will stand up to the present occupant of the Oval Office, who has already engaged in acts that could be judged as being in violation of the Constitution. (Example: the ongoing lawsuits against the administration for violating the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.)
The time for action may be precipitated by the administration's stated intention to issue an executive order to proceed with the inclusion of a citizenship question on the 2020 Census form, despite the recent Supreme Court decision to block such an inclusion. Such an executive order -- if allowed to stand -- would make a mockery of the principle of separation of powers that is an essential part of our democratic system. We would then have A FULL-BLOWN CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS on our hands.
We citizens must be vigilant and, if need be, make our voices heard and our presence felt in the hundreds of thousands (bordering on millions) on Capitol Hill and the White House (as well as at the local offices of several GOP Senators up for re-election next year; approx. 22 of them will be up for re-election).
The present occupant of the Oval Office must be compelled to see that he has to abide by the law and the Supreme Court decision on the 2020 Census.
1
Throw the Nixon playbook out already; Trump has thrown out all playbooks, rules, and conventions/norms a long time ago.
The focus should be on impeaching Trump and putting forward a unified party for the 2020 election, but this does NOT require sending articles of impeachment to the Senate for a guaranteed acquittal! Just let House Judiciary Committeedo a thorough, 6 month investigation from January to June; select the nominee in July; approve the articles of impeachment in House Judiciary Committee right after August recess; THEN have the Speaker announce on the floor in September that, instead of having a floor vote , she is "sending" the articles of impeachment to the ELECTORATE for their decision on Election Day. Easy peasy! Let the voters convict him and remove him from office, as they surely will!
2
Most Americans do not receive any education on the US Constitution, and have no conception of the gravity of the damage that Trump is doing to our form of government.
When Southern states insisted on a right of unilateral secession, many Americans felt it was a pointy-headed nerd debate ... just as many Americans today do not understand why a reasonable-sounding question about citizenship should be so controversial. Nevertheless, both questions were of supreme importance.
4
The answer is simple, a majority in the Senate. Anyone who comes from a competitive district, or holds a senate seat realizes this. When Trump said "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters" he meant votes in the Senate and on the Supreme court. Enjoy your dictatorship until at least the 2020 election.
2
"What Will It Take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump?"
We don't know yet why the Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, doesn't want to start Impeachment Investigations against Trump, but I think there is one move she should start that might then lead to Trump.
Since the day William Barr took over at the Justice Dept. as Attorney General we have seen unethical, shady, contorted and possibly illegal conduct. I don't see any reasons why the Democrats should not go after an Impeachment Investigation into what Mr. Barr is doing. I believe such an investigation would document and shed new light on what Trump and Barr are doing to our Nation and it's laws and Our Constitution.
Mr. Barr, like Trump, has shown nothing but contempt for congress and the Rule Of Law. Congress has every Constitutional right to investigate and create legislation to control unlawful actions by Trump and his organization. I hope the House Democrats take advantage of every one of their rights.
3
Trump is a cancer, a malignancy on our Republic. Start treating it or will metastasize beyond the ability to fight it (if we're not already there).
Defend our Constitution! Engage! Stop waiting for the "right" time before the opportunity is no longer.
I can only hope there is a hidden effort that is stockpiling information to unleash and overwhelm the cancer. Otherwise, I'm afraid there a bunch of timid cowards in Congress rather than a valiant group that is doing what the Constitution compels good women and men to do in defense of it.
6
Be careful what you wish for. Impeach Donald J. Trump, then you get Mike Pence. A president Pence will be more harsher towards social issues, like the abomination of abortion, so that must be what the Democrats and their liberal supporters want. Cheers!
3
@Southern Boy. And Mike Pence will have less chance of getting reelected than did Gerald Ford in 1976.
6
President ***** should be held accountable for his total lack of common human decency, bad behavior, total lack of respect of anything other than the filthy rich.
However, our elected "representatives" are terrified to risk losing their luxurious lifestyles that are provided by the U.S. Taxpayer.
Meanwhile, real people suffer and die.
5
To answer Mr. Conway's "What Will It Take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump?"
The answer is ... Republicans!
3
The Democrats don't look that they will even be about to get a candidate who has a serious shot at beating him in the 2020 general election. Why would they take their eye off that ball and try the fool's errand of impeachment which goes nowhere in the Senate and Trump would likely relish as a issue to run on? Impeachment is a purely political process and the political of doing it are very bad for the Democrats. That is obvious to Nancy Pelosi who is more and more the only adult in the Democratic caucus.
4
What will it take to get Democrats to impeach Trump? A senate willing to convict him, that’s what. Otherwise, impeachment is just a publicity stunt, and when the Senate exonerates him, Trump will cruise to reelection in 2020.
3
@Constance Warner. He might well "cruise to reelection" in light of the fact that House Democrats chose not to impeach him.
And after the 2020 election, if Trump gets reelected? Collusion? Voters will have voted on it in 2020. Obstruction of justice? Voters will have voted on it in 2020. Emoluments? Voters will have voted on it in 2020. Alleged sexual assault? Voters will have voted on it in 2016 and 2020.
This is not 1974, where voters did not know most of what there was to know about Watergate when they voted in 1972.
Congress really will be trying to overturn an election in 2021 if they don't impeach now and if Donald Trump gets reelected. Impeach now or forever hold your peace.
5
All I can say is that there is something drastically wrong with our so-called Constitutional form of government if elected officials can collude with foreign enemies in elections, obstruct justice, disobey Supreme Court rulings with the executive stroke of a pen and separate and imprison immigrant children away from their parents. Simply put - Republicans and Trump have demonstrated that the rule of law and our Constitution are nothing but a farce.
My father and his brethren who fought in WWII would be appalled.
4
Sir, the answer to your question is quite simple: When there is reason to believe Conviction in the Senate is possible. The best chance now is to hope for a wave election that delivers the Senate to Democrats. As soon as the new Congress is sworn in, the House impeaches, the Senate convicts, and Trump indicted and jailed in time for Inauguration Day. Pence gets to be President for a couple of weeks, and he can live off that the rest of his life. Without conviction, impeachment isn't just a waste of time; it is counterproductive.
3
Suppose Trump is impeached. Would this Senate convict, or even hold a trial? Trump would then claim vindication and his "base" would cheer even worse actions by the dictator.
1
In all these heated conversations about what Nancy Pelosi should do, but fails to do, I hear no one uttering the words "Senate vote" or "two-thirds," which is the majority the Constitution specifies for conviction of a president. Is it just possible that Nancy Pelosi knows how to count votes? Mitch McConnell has already made clear that the Republican Senate will briskly dismiss any impeachment. He might even refuse to hold a trial. To those who doubt he would be so brazen, I have a two-word answer: "Merrick Garland." If it is true that there is no way the Senate would vote to remove Trump (and who could disagree, knowing what slavish Trumpites the Republicans are?), why should Pelosi put the country through a one-year ordeal, and get no legislating done, on the eve of an election? Just to take a moral stand? To please the zealots who aren't interested in political reality?
5
I understand the problem and challenge that Pelosi faces: impeach the president in the House with no possibility in the Senate, or focus on a moon shot of winning back the presidency.
What would you do if you were in Pelosi's position? That's the question for all of us. Basically, immediate pleasure vs. long range goals. What's best for the country?
Sad to say, since I would love to impeach Trump, I really want a solid Democrat like Kamela Harris or Elizabeth Warren as president over the know nothing, do nothing, lying, treasonous, delusional Trump. It's night and day. We need a woman in there to make the necessary changes that debase our country. Let's face it, this country is in radical decline on all fronts except for making weapons of mass destruction on every level.
7
Get the secret information from Stephanie Clifford and her attorney who was indicted. Two years ago, the media went on for hours about how Trump would be brought down by that information. Why is there silence? Do the two of them have information about Democrats too?
4
Simple answer? a spine.
3
For the thousandth time, Trump WANTS to be Impeached. That’s the best possible thing to happen, for his re-election Campaign. That and another useless “ War “ will fire up his Base, and keep his cowardly Collaborators in line. They are deathly afraid of angering his Fans. Please, use some common sense. The usual rules and metrics do NOT apply.
Seriously.
2
There is no excuse. Trump must be impeached. Even if there is never a vote in the Senate the Democrats will have taken the right action. The Democrats rolled over and allowed Bush to pursue an illegal disastrous war in Iraq. Bush was re-elected. This is a similar situation. Nancy is wrong on this one and she is wrong to attack the young progressives. They are the future. And I’m 79 too!
56
@S. Bernard Totally agree. It's time to fish or cut bait. And I'm 73.
7
@A Rock In My Shoe: I agree and I'm 69. Nancy is morally and strategically wrong (as Mr Amash) said. She is going to cost the dems the 2020 election.
9
@S. Bernard
I agree. The question in desperate need of an answer is: WHEN?
5
What it would take is a possibility of conviction in the Senate. Otherwise the Democrats would be playing into Trump's hands, giving him the opportunity to claim "vindication!" when the Senate acquits.
1
The more I read, the more I hear (tweets), the more I see circumstances that point to obstruction of justice and abuse of power with #45. Why is there not public out cry for impeachment proceedings. What are we waiting for? Perhaps we will impeach in his second term after more ruinous executive orders. What is Pelosi's hesitation? Wanting to see him in prison? I think that is a long shot.
I believe on thing impeachment would do is to help end any of his a political aspirations. Certainly if he wants or tries for more than 4 years I will be in the streets, hopefully with 100,000 more. Have we lost our way?
6
There is a simple answer to the question why Democrats are reluctant to impeach Trump: No matter what the investigations reveal and how egregious Trump's crimes are, there is a 0% chance that the Republican congress will convict. So no matter what happens it will look like a huge victory for Trump, because in the end the verdict will be "not guilty".
8
If the goal of Democrats is to retain the House and retake the Senate, would it not be a good plan to hold impeachment hearings and send articles of impeachment to the Senate. According to all punditry, the Senate will not even hold a trial or if they do, impeach on the evidence presented.
Assuming the hearings produce incontrovertible evidence of abuse of power and obstruction of justice, among other things, Democrats then make the case to the American people that the Senate Republicans have failed to do their constitutional duty, failed the American people, and should be removed wholesale from office.
Or you could do nothing and anger a lot of Democrats who will then vote for the independent Presidential candidate.
4
You need an impeachable offense first. It’s not a tool to remove a politician you simply detest. Right now you have nothing. Unless a true allegation shows up, it’s time to shut up about impeachment.
5
Anyone who has read the Mueller report knows he. has committee impeachable offenses far more serious than anything Nixon did.
7
Avanatti, Stephanie Clifford, and Congressman Schiff have the secret evidence. Why are they not making it public?
2
A recent Quinnipiac University poll showed that only 33% favored the start of impeachment proceedings even though they believed Trump had committed crimes in office. That number is up slightly form 29% in May, but it certainly doesn’t spell a groundswell of support for impeachment. http://tinyurl.com/y23fggar
Pelosi knows this. That’s why she continues to argue that there's not yet enough support among the voters. That impeachment will suck all the air out of Beltway politics, and all other issues, including beating Trump, will be sidelined. That the GOP will use the opportunity to bash and discredit the Democrats, hurting their chances in 2020. And for all the political damage, what will be the end result? It will die in the Senate.
Those arguing for impeachment now reject this argument. In their wild imaginings, impeachment hearings will set the public on fire. Where is the evidence? The available evidence suggests, to the contrary, that the public is hearing fatigued. What they want, above all, is a Congress that will stop the destructive partisan infighting, and begin to address their urgent needs—for jobs, healthcare, and economic security generally. Those who argue for impeachment now disregard all this; they’re looking only to fuel their anger. They are the circular firing squad that President Obama warned against.They will stop at nothing to ensure that the Democrats lose in 2020.
3
Ms. Pelosi, do your job.
4
republicans would have tarred and feathered Obama if he did one iota of the Trump ugliness.
5
The problem is the older Dems are near calcified. The party and its members are woefully inept at messaging. but not these newer, younger social media savvy members. and thats a problem. The Dems are too slow on the offensive, spending too much time on the defense, when the Repubs, and now Trump and his minions, lock the narratives in place.
Its absurd that the Dems have not made the child abuse at the border a bigger issue. its absurd that the Dems are not calling him and the Repubs, esp. MConnell, out on a daily basis, on his failures regarding health care, and prescription drug prices.
The Dems rely too much on their base to get information, instead of, like the GOP, giving them the info. spoon feeding it if need be.
I was shocked that during the most recent MSNBC debate, that at nearly every break, there were antiDem adverts going after the candidates and the party for having a secret list of potential judicial appointees. which is absurd of course, but it was more crazy that during their own debates, the DNC had not flooded those breaks with Anti Trump spots.
6
@Boregard, Your point is well taken. But the truth is that these ads and many more to follow are paid for by the 1% to whom Trump gave all the financial breaks that enable these scoundrels to continue to broadcast these lies.
1
What will it take for Democrats to unite behind impeachment? Simple answer: control of the Senate. Of course that can't happen until January 2021, so it would be foolish to send articles of impeachment to the Senate where Trump would be acquitted, only to take a victory lap right before he runs for re-election. What Pelosi is probably scheming to do is to begin impeachment hearings closer to the election, exposing all Trump's misdeeds to media coverage just when he wants to control the narrative. Make Republican Senators running for re-election state their intention to support Trump. That could help Democrats gain control of the Upper House and would certainly hurt Trump's chances for a second Electoral College victory.
3
Firing Nancy. Her latest ploy was a closed door meeting, singling out her squad and telling them not to use social media to attack her. Hmm, she used the NYT.to attack them and seems not at all concerned about Tucker attacking them in racist ways. Her concern is that everyone bow to her and no one actually stand up for doing the right thing, such as impeachment or forcing the Senate to agree to protections that money given to them actually go to save those kids from wretched and deliberately cruel conditions. Yes bow their heads and applaud Nancy for giving Trump everything he wanted and trusting Mitch and Pence to do the right thing by the kids who they could care less about. When she had the leverage she let those kids down. Now she is guilty of supporting the torture of those kids and their parents.
5
Best to just dump Trump in the 2020 election - save that fire in the belly for then. Trump twists a bit more every day. By the time impeachment would get anywhere the election will be on us - so impeachment proceedings would be wasted effort.
2
Unless they have clear evidence of a crime that Trump committed as president, this whole impeachment gambit will backfire. It will probably ensure Trump's reelection as most of the voting public except the hardcore left recognizes that there was no crime. There was no collusion with Russia. There was more collusion between the Clinton campaign and Russia than the Trump campaign -- think about all those rich Russian donors to the Clinton foundation -- and the Steele dossier, compiled by a British intelligence agent using anonymous Russian sources. Please.
And using impeachment when there is no crime to try and "resist" or actually rid yourself of a president you detest will mean almost certainly that the next dem president better be like Caesar's wife (I don't mean a female) or the Repubs will blather about impeachment from day 1. It's not a good strategy regardless of your feelings about Trump.
The smartest thing dems could do is focus on the election. Now, your candidates are weak so maybe it is pretty realistic to try to impeach Trump as I don't think the dems will win based on their current slate. And pushing these looney progressive ideas isn't going to win middle of the road voters. The behavior of the left since Trump's election -- and at this point I mean essentially the entire dem party -- is pretty scary. What the dems need is a decent candidate. Good luck on that
2
What a sad case is to be a Democrat. This party, the Democratic Party is populated by people who have been brow-beaten by the Republicans for so long that they have all become trembling lilies. From the most obscure supporter to the top officials and leaders, pundits and opinion writers, etc., are unable to summon the courage to mount an offense and fight for what they should believe. Forget about impeachment, with the current leadership it will never happen. The Republican bullies, beginning with Trump will kick them around and will win again as they have been winning for the past 40 years despite having Clinton and Obama in between. That is why the Republicans control the White House, the Judiciary, and with the unprincipled Mitch McConnell, they practically control the Legislative Branch as well. If the citizen question is added to the census, America will be ruled by a minority of preponderantly white Republicans for generations..
3
This column implies Tip O'Neill was Speaker of the House of Representatives during the Watergate Era. That honor belongs to Carl Albert (D-OK) O'Neill became Speaker in 1977. During Watergate he was Majority Whip and later Majority Leader. Comparable posts now occupied by Jim Clyburn (D-SC) and Steny Hoyer (D-MD)
3
To "Iceland" - You write without impeachment "Democrats moral authority is zilch". Sir Thomas More stood up to Henry VIII. He had great moral authority. He was beheaded and Henry VIII reigned. Moral authority but losing the 2020 election is no victory.
5
This is just a gut response answer to the headline: a Democratic majority in the Senate.
5
We will do better than impeaching him. We will defeat him soundly in 2020.
3
Oh Michael, get over it. Donald Trump is here to stay for another 51/2 years. Whether you like it or not.
1
It will take Speaker Nancy Pelosi acting like an adult and honoring her oath to "protect" the Constitution. Instead, I'm shocked at the vicious attack she leveled at four young, diverse women of color (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ihlan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, and Rashida Tlaib) who are freshmen members of her Democratic Party and House caucus rather than at the "existential threat" to our democracy. It was unnecessary, divisive, appears racist, and plays right into Trump's hands. We need "all hands on deck" to defeat Trump and she created a wound that she must now heal or live to "regret" it. She needs to protect, not attack, the young members even if, as Yeats said it's a case where she feels "My conscience or my vanity [was] appalled." She may have felt wounded, but at our age (I'm also 79) we need to take the "high road" and be "wounded healers" not wounding score settling parental scourges. She hit the wrong target; impeach Trump! He's tearing up the Constitution not these four young, exciting, energetic, young women who are working hard to save it.
49
@Paul Wortman
Sixty-seven votes are needed to convict in a Senate trial of an impeached president (two-thirds of one-hundred). There are forty-seven Democrats. Even if all of them voted to convict (and a few, such as Joe Manchin, probably would not), twenty Republicans would have to vote "guilty." Would you care to name those twenty, or more? And this assumes that Mitch McConnell would even hold a trial. But no one could force him to. I know, vote-counting is so boring when one would rather take a stand on principle.
9
@Paul Wortman Agreed! It does seem like her pride and vanity were wounded. Almost like an arrogant snap of the ego at the younger, vibrant, dedicated new participants.
4
@Strix Nebulosa You miss THE point. It's all about educating the American public and defending the Constitution. Nixon was also viewed as innocent until the hearings, then the tide turned. And if not, there's no requirement to send articles of impeachment to the Senate. An impeachment inquiry in the House may be all that's necessary.
10
Making a move to impeach without the support of several republicans is more than a waste of time. Bill Clinton after his impeachment could have easily won a third term had it been allowed he had garnered so much sympathy . Ironically Al Gore would have easily won election had he not shunned Clinton's help for fear it might taint his campaign. Democrats should avoid aiding his chances of reelection.
Easy question. Speaker Pelosi is the answer. When Pelosi says "yes", official impeachment hearings will begin. I trust Pelosi to say "yes" when it's the right time, and not before.
1
For one, they shouldn't elect Pelosi as leader again.
Perhaps American voters should start targeting Ms. Pelosi with demands for impeachment proceedings. Bury her communication channels under an avalanche of demands.
Maybe she has genius political calculations going on in her head. Maybe her divisiveness within her own House will contribute to Democrats falling on their face in 2020 because they cannot align all together as one force. Which one is it?
4
First things first. They above all else need to unite in their approach to get rid of Trump altogether. Especially since Republican senators making getting rid of him by impeachment and conviction impossible. To my way of thinking, that means nominating a strong candidate and supporting him/her regardless of whether that is one's candidate of choice or not, and doing it 110%. IT also means supporting the candidates most likely to win House and Senate seats, which means a "big tent" because what got one elected in Queens is unlikely to work in rural Ohio. Otherwise, they may well repeat the catastrophe of 2016.
Pleaded, begged and threatened consequences so dire did Pelosi, Schumer and the established Democratic politicians less Trump continue unfettered. If we didn't stand in the rain and vote Blue there would be no one to hold Trump accountable with only ourselves to blame. Pelosi et al forgot to mention the part where they never thought they could win a single battle and wouldn't fight til the end. Subpoenas ignored, closed door hearings, not a single muscular lever towards billions for the border. My father used to say "die trying", that is what leaders do and that is why people stand in the rain.
The Republicans have mortally wounded our constitutional Democracy and the Dems are finishing it off.
4
I see three scenarios among many as to what could happen next. (1) The House does not impeach Trump. (2) The House impeaches Trump but the Senate does not convict. (3) Events convince enough Republican senators to abandon Trump to make a Senate conviction likely. Although other scenarios are possible, the outcomes of these three scenarios suggest what could happen in the others. If the House fails to impeach, we are faced with an America in which the Trump administration has set a precedent of corruption that will enable future demagogues. This is frightening. If the House impeaches and the Senate does not convict, the 2020 election is impacted in ways that are difficult to assess. Trump could be reelected in this scenario. The scenario in which Republican senators abandon Trump rests on their adhering to the Constitution, an unlikely occurrence. So the best way forward for now is for the House to impeach, and to accept the risks of what might occur in the 2020 election. The House must open the impeachment inquiry because "high crimes and misdemeanors" must be exposed, not condoned. Otherwise, the House will be the enabler of future high crimes and misdemeanors. The candidates could say to themselves "Trump did worse and got away with it. So can I."
4
Nah. I was alive and sentient as well during Watergate. "Reluctance" in the opposition Party is always seen as a good thing concerning impeaching a president. Speaker Pelosi is smart. But if she's waiting for a "Saturday Night Massacre," she only has to wait until trump defies the SCOTUS, issues and expects compliance with his census executive order, and then again defies SCOTUS - that's a Constitutional crisis.
Just another HUGE thing she can add to the pile of impeachable offenses, but this one is critical to the very survival of our democracy.
There are facts and there are politics. The Mueller Report and the Congress.
The House democrat majority, with the facts, may bring impeachment.
The Senate republican majority, with no political backbone, will not vote to convict.
So what is the point?
The republican President holds control over the congressional republicans. Not one congressional republican will risk exposure to Trump’s wrath and tweet broadsides.
So the point is that congressional action regarding impeachment can start, but will go nowhere.
1
The House Democratic majority ...
Answer: Nancy Pelosi to do her job instead of cynically profit off of Trump outrage to gin up donations for 2020.
So it seems the no-nothings are right on one point: "They" ARE all the same when it comes to money and power.
So sad.
1
@Mike, it's "know nothings". And the only real chance to remove Trump is the election. She is doing everything toward that end, I believe. And those who want us to slice up our own party and one another are the cynical ones. United we stand, and can, for real, defeat the right. I hope you will help.
1
The only articles about Democrats are how, what, where & if they can beat Trump. Here in Canada there are the same articles about the ineptitude & almost pure silliness of Trudeau, as you do with Trump. But here, his main rivals the Conservatives, are doing "ground" & social media work, just talking about issues & what they would do differently. The election is this October & honestly, with all the "surface" media attention, I cannot, forecast who will win. But can any of you tell me who is going to win in the USA doing "it" your way???
Impeachment?
A semantic code for riding a policymaking system of a person "gifted" with the opportunities, roles, powers, responsibilities, and whatever other relevant dimensions, who has not, does not DO, what s/he was mandated to DO!
Equitable wellbeing. Enabling healthy coping. Adapting. Functioning. By individuals and systems. (Couples. Families. Communities. Neighborhoods. Places of learning. Working. Leisuring. Etc.) Anchored with civility. Mutual-trust. Respect. Caringness and help, if and when needed.
“I’m a loyal..., but I couldn’t vote to impeach any president … It would be a sacrilege.”
Is Trump, THE Emperor of Personal Unaccountability, for harmful words and deeds, a suitable candidate?
In his Court of Political Cancers, Environmental Destructions & Violating Persons & Systems, who, and how many others, have been, are, and will likely continue to be Personally UnaccountableS?
In his enabled, but not created, & OUR toxic culture, of Willful Complacency & Complicity by all-too-many (ALL around- urban-inner city, suburban, rural and at all levels),what viable options exist to making needed, equitable,sustainable changes NOW?
Being adequately sensitive not to fall into the seductive trap of viewing and experiencing our worlds of ranges and continua in a limiting "either/or" manner, should impeachment be chosen as an/THE "answer?" For NOW?
What are our options for anchored: Unaccountability by many. Racism? Exclusion? Dehumanization? Exclusion?
Wisdom comes with age. Specifically when some of the young dems wishing to impeach have shown lack of facts with their other ideas just pure socialism mixed with zealotry.
Pelosi does not want to gamble many seats when dead on arrival in senate. A lot of noise that will cost many dems their seats.
4
I live in Oklahoma, surrounded by Trump fans. The story they've been told is that Trump is mistreated, a martyr, to a rabid democrat (sic) mob who will stop at nothing to torment him. But God (and an adamantly republican senate) will save and exonerate him even as voting time arrives. Absolutely believed, and sure to come true. Trump loves it. And a fangless impeachment that also divides democrats in our one real chance at the polls? That takes money, attention, and time we could be using to unite? Priceless. This insistence on impeachment in the face of an election is not wise; it may be a fatal error.
2
@jb
Thank you for your clear, concise explanation. This is real stuff you’re talking about.
I disagree, I think the spectacle of impeachment proceedings has power — it certainly did in the Watergate era, and Nixon was a small time common criminal compared to Trump. Not impeaching when the crimes call for action could be a fatal error, especially as the Administration flaunts the law by illegally ignoring House subpoenas.
Sadly, we won’t really know what the best strategy is until it’s too late.
1
@Chickpea, I appreciate your view, a reasonable one. But do think that our one clear chance to remove him and his party is before us in the election. Whatever divides us or distracts us must take a lower priority now.
One major difference is the fear of Trump becoming more popular and re-elected as a result of impeachment efforts. Nixon was already a lame duck, albeit with over half of his second term remaining.
2
Trump for all his character faults and flagrant acting out, has not even approached the damage that the last Republican president did.
George W. Bush, also the choice of the great majority of our nation's Christians, started two illegal wars and trashed the world economy with deregulation.
TRUMP IS NOT THE PROBLEM. REPUBLICANISM IS and the fact that we have a government that does not represent 99% of Americans.
1
The Democrats are not going to impeach Trump. That ought to be evident to us all after several weeks of fruitless hearings and deliberate slow-walking. Now only the American people can save us from Trump, and that appears increasingly unlikely as his approval ratings survived the Mueller Report and appear to be on the upswing.
Years ago I could not have imagined that a man so corrupt, so inept, so unqualified and so ignorant could become president for two terms. But it is happening. And there won't even be an asterisk next to his name in the history books, as there is with Bill Clinton because of his impeachment. He'll just be considered an ordinary, not quite mediocre president.
1
@hark, The asterisk will come after he is tried and put in a New York State jail for financial corruption.
Impeachment is just an Indictment, pressing a Charge against an office holder. That charge is brought to the Senate, where 100 Jurors, the Senators, with The Supreme Court's Chief Justice sits as the presiding Judge. We Democrats learned how to NOT REPEAT HISTORY'S Mistake: While the Republican House filed the Impeachment against Clinton, the Democratic Senate found him ''Not Guilty". We can wait until the 2020 Election, and in a United Form, we can Vote out this miscreant. We, the People, can Vote... "If one does not learn from History, he dooms himself to suffer the lessons, again'' [ paraphrased: George Santayana ].
1
Times have changed, some essential facts are different. The Democratic Party is now moribund with cowardice.
3
Either the Republican Senate turns, or public opinion turns, but if neither of those things happen Pelosi will not impeach.
The former will not happen; the latter we can hope for. And if it doesn't happen before November 2020, we will have to vote this cancer out.
1
@myasara, your first statement is simply untrue. Impeachment at this time will do neither of those things. Uniting behind a democratic candidate in all elections can sweep the republicans out. A real chance that should be on our tongues and minds today. Don't be deceived by those who would divide us--and there will be many such attempts.
@myasara, so sorry! I misread you. Passion is often too quick to judge. I apologize and will take a break.
What is the point of passing articles of impeachment against President Trump, when the Republican-majority Senate is sure to vote in his favor, or even refuse to vote at all?
The probability that Trump, like Nixon, would resign if articles of impeachment were passed, is a big fat zero.
Pelosi is a notorious vote counter. If she determines that the majority of Democrats want to start an impeachment inquiry, she should allow a vote to take place. If a majority of Democrats do not support starting impeachment hearings, it would be foolish to have a vote.”
1
The Dems need to focus on getting the party aligned on a platform that will be not only be acceptable, but welcome, to the vast political center. Forget impeachment, it is not winnable and is nothing more than a dangerous distraction from the single most important goal they should have - defeating Trump in 2020.
Pelosi is not a grand chess master. The Republican wing of the Democratic Party keeps making excuses for her inaction on impeachment. She has a duty to all Americans, not just conservative Democrats, to do what the Constitution tells her to do and gives her the power to do. It goes beyond political strategies to help Democrats win elections or defeat Trump. It’s about doing the right thing. It’s not a game. Democrats have refused to believe in themselves for far to long. This is because part of the party can’t decide if it’s really Republican or not. The Republicans have sold out our democracy and proven they only care about maintaining power. It’s beginning to appear as if Pelosi is selling out for that same power too. So Democrats lose - again. They’ve been losing for the last 40 years. Do the right thing.
5
I would start with insisting on evidence supporting an impeachable offense.
Honestly, 2 years of investigation, millions of dollars, 30 full time FBI agents, and whatcha got? Obstruction of justice- because he threatened to fire someone who he had every right to fire but didn't fire. Seriously?
Meanwhile, HRC destroyed 30,000 emails after she received a subpoena. (front page NYT, Labor Day, 2016) This is the textbook definition of obstruction of justice. Why hasn't she been indicted? Because Comey, who testified under oath his wife and daughters desperately wanted HRC to be President, said although her activities constituted "reckless disregard for national security" there was insufficient evidence to bring criminal charges. Despite what people shout at Trump rallies the country accepted Comey's judgment. There are no current proceeding against her.
Comey's current incarnation is Christopher Wray. Mr. Wray has testified there is no grounds for criminal charges against Trump. It seems to me this discussion should be over. No more hearings, no more teeth gnashing, and no more crocodile tears for our Republic. The NYT on March 17, 2019 stated the Democrats biggest fear is the public is losing interest in the Moeller Report. Apparently, this isn't about our democracy but winning an election.
The House can do whatever it wants. I despise Trump but I'd rather they focus on running the country. Whatever they decide just do it, they've wasted enough of our time.
5
@jkemp Emoluments clause, to wit:
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
To do business with the POTUS is greatly aided an extended stay in one of his properties, no?
5
@Steve Bruns
Funny you should bring that up. The 4th Circuit Court in Richmond, VA this very morning threw out that charge. You got anything else?
Seems to me you support our judiciary when it supports what you believe but ignore it when it doesn't. Congress doesn't have that luxury, maybe that's why they can't unite behind impeaching Trump?
1
@Fourteen14
Christopher Wray doesn't think so. Since he's the director of our intelligence services and when Comey was in the same position we accepted his opinion then I guess you're being inconsistent.
Hate Trump enough to be guilty of a little double standard?
The past is instructive, but it's important to draw from the right events if one is to apply the correct lesson. Just because there was an impeachment conducted of Nixon and Clinton, doesn't mean the events and crimes are the same as what Trump might be accused of. In this case, the amount of wrongdoing, much of it virtually admitted to by Trump, dwarfs the charges leveled against Nixon and Clinton. Only blind partisanship prevents anyone from seeing this clearly.
Nancy is too focused on the political calculus, and seems to be betting that the 2020 election will solve the problem, but if so, she's betting far more than "the ranch". Moreover, she's ignoring her Constitutional duty to hold a President accountable. Declining to do so because she believes the Senate won;t convict is a cop out. First, whatever the Senate does does not alter her responsibility. Second, how can she know that the impeachment process won't uncover enough slam dunk evidence that it would cause some Republicans to actually set aside their self-interested partisanship and vote to convict?
Yes, the decision to impeach is hard, but it was a tool the Founders provided for instances just such as this: an out of control President who refuses to be held accountable. If Nancy is unwilling to do her duty, she needs to step aside.
4
At this moment in France there is a debate about the program of philosophy for the new baccalaureat, which unfortunately, will be simplified ( global economy pressure ) .
21 themes of analysis necessary to be studied by the 17 year old students will be reduced to 16 .
Among the turning points : desire, the unconscious, knowledge, the law, labor, beauty, etc...
Through the reading of authors like Pascal, Montaigne, Descartes, Freud, Kant, Hegel, Marx, and some moderns...
What do American students study at 17 ?
What do they read ?
Does it explain why there is such a philosophical void and lack of conceptual ability even at a higher age or level ?
And of course in the uneducated masses.
4
As a Democrat, I am honestly asking this question and genuinely looking for answers.
Question: What is the benefit of voting for impeachment? He will still be president (is that right?). And he will have 100% of the same powers he has today (right?). And (this part is opinion by me) I believe he will be *stronger* afterwards as his supporters use it as fodder.
So I guess i really don't get this.
4
If the freshmen house members think whining self-centeredly will help, 1 step out of their heads/egos would show them they're making impeachment less likely by strengthening trump.
I think a problem we Americans have is that we can be self-centered, easily focusing on "me" but w/ age/experience and, if one is aware, we can also realize that it is not the most effective or appealing way to bring change
Personally, I am getting really tired of the new dems worrying only about their ego, power, and voices. They speak so loud and often are condescending so that they mask the contrast with trump and repubs. Pelosi is thoughtful and the only hope to bring the caucus to impeachment. I think she knows that if trump continues that is where we'll land but it has to be absolutely, 100% supported by her entire body of members. I fall somewhere between all their ages and am a female so imagine what older male dems (those with past views of roles) feel re: these 4-5. This mini-group of very young leaders could end up pushing away the exact voters we need to beat trump.
AOC time to grow up - be respectful, stop with the social media trying to hurt fellow dems - you should respect Pelosi she has done much more than you. You might become a flavor of the year if you continue on this path. All races, creeds, colors are born poor and have had to work their way out of difficulty. Stop with the illusion that it is only you. You are there to rep all Americans, try to adjust to that.
2
kiki...you're way off here. way off. the older Dems are calcified...they are afraid of their own shadows, because they, as a party have forgotten how to campaign, and also govern. they are also woefully inept at messaging. they let the Repubs run the narratives, and spend too much time reacting, backpeddling, looking for ways out of the corners the Repubs back them into.
the new Dems want to fight, recognizing that we need to fight this Pres, and his coward Senate and House sycophants.
pelosi and schumer, and nadler, and my beloved mr. cummings, have got to wake up and embrace the current state of reality. they cant keep acting like this is the 90s. like it or not social media is the platform of today and into he forseeable future. its how and why Trump is sitting in our hallowed Oval and mucking it up!
my only complaint is the calling out of other Dems on these platforms and not figuring a way to do it face to face. too frequent use of these paltforms is cowardly.
@Boregard, You tell us, "the new Dems want to fight, recognizing that we need to fight this Pres, and his coward Senate and House sycophants." But they only have 4 votes in the House and 0 in the Senate. Listen to nona Nancy and stick with her.
1
There are two groups that have not gotten behind
empeachment and both are vitally important for its success--the electorate and the Republican majority in the Senate. Until and unless those two groups get on board, all talk of empeachment will be exactly that--talk. Consequently, there is only one real and practical way to unseat the Grifter in Chief. We need to mobilize voters, including many who voted for him in 1916, and vote him out of office. Nothing else will work.
1
Is the author aware that Mueller is testifying in 6 days?
There is always a chance that a curveball - like disturbing revelations related to Trump and Epstein - could appear and change the story, but other than something like that it seems Mueller's testimony and the aftermath from it will clarify the long-running impeachment debate.
Presidential primaries start in under 7 months, at which point impeachment will likely be all but impossible.
@Alan, In my humble opinion, it is Epstein who will bring down Trump.
The way to overcome divisions within the Democratic party about impeachment is to commence impeachment proceedings. We can start by naming a select impeachment committee.
There are so few Democrats who oppose the impeachment of Donald Trump that I doubt you could find even one on the street in a whole day of looking.
5
@Dr. Planarian, The first thing you need to do is read the Constitution. We already have the select committee you desire. It is called the House Judiciary Committee and in due course it will present its recommendation for impeachment to the full House.
Leadership is about seeing the future and going there. Leadership is not about waiting for a Senate, incapable of doing the right thing under any circumstance, or someone else to cross yet another constantly moving line in the sand.
Right now, our country, as we once knew it, is being dismantled by despots. Our allies in the world have been dismissed, our enemies embraced, and the pillars of our civilization are being dismantled.
We may not win the next election. We may not keep the House. We already know the next election is being attacked by enemies of democracy both foreign and domestic.
What Pelosi does have is the House, at this moment in time, and it’s limited power in this Administration.
Maybe, just maybe, Pelosi’s best move would be to lead the House in to doing the right thing and defend what is left of our country while defending it may still be possible?
7
With the Pelosi’s “four horsewomen of the (American) apocalypse” leading us anything is possible.
1
They need to oust Pelosi. She’s just awful.
1
Nancy Pelosi's refusal to support impeachment or bring it to the floor for a vote, will be seen as one of the biggest mistakes of her career.
Politics and human behavior are fluid. Movement and direction can alter the course of events , so as to make static assessments based on political expediency and fear to seem absurd and even cowardly in retrospect.
In this area, Trump has managed to out maneuver Democrats and moderate Republican and successfully thwart an impeachment inquiry. He has weakened to a degree Democratic solidarity and caused millions of Americans to become even more bitter, cynical, isolated and angry about their country- further weakening it at its core.
So we are obviously in a defining moment in American history. A moment where the nation fails to collectively act in a way it knows it should- and each day that passes saps its strength, world reputation and vitality.
Sorry my fellow Americans- it is not about America first. Hitler used that mantra successfully and destroyed his nation. Authoritarian rulers and the people that bend their knees to them- do not have a good track record in history. And nations that follow the Big Lie- find themselves in they very reality they fear the most.
5
Trump's not going to be impeached. Not sure when the progressive liberals will get this- but it is taking an extraordinarily long time. Only little wit will excuse people who believe that the anti-American - open borders - free stuff for everyone - you're a racist if you don't agree with us - progressives are to be listened to. Whether it's the appointment of conservative judges, strategy with China, Russia-gate, or any of the other attacks - Trump is preferred over progressive liberals. Had the progressives not been so stupid and employed such bad strategies Trump would probably have been out by now.
(cont) If we are to again have good government, the Democrats must concentrate on winning the senate and increasing their representation in the house, seat by seat. Pelosi is right to shy away from impeachment, timing is everything and the tide has not changed yet. There is hope that the younger, more progressive element will in the end save our democracy, but it will not be a single punch that does it, hard work and patience will be needed.
Pushing for impeachment now, without some new (Blockbuster!) evidence that even spineless Republicans (including Yertl from Kentucky) will regard as factual, will fail. Tr%mp will spin himself as the victim of Fake News and Elites and everything else, his base will rally behind him, and he wins again. Great National Nightmare, Part III.
Leave it be for now, legislate in spite of His Idiocy, work to regain the White House so we can be done with this junk show.
The chances of defeating Trump in the 2020 election seem much higher than removing him from office for impeachment so the Democrats don't want to hurt their chance of winning the election by making Trump seem like a victim as he always himself. The entire right wing has set itself up as being victimized. Claims are made that the white race is in danger of being wiped out through racial intermarriage. Loss of jobs is being blamed on immigrants. High taxes are being blamed on liberal social programs for that mainly help blacks. And it has reached the point that the neo-Nazis are claiming their free speech rights are being infringed on.
1
Why does the NYT photo caption identify Hilary Clinton but not John Doar, the Special Counsel to the Judiciary Committee? Civil rights champion, Presidential Medal of Freedom awardee, and the chief legal architect of the House Judiciary Committee’s case for impeaching President Nixon. Michael Conway, the article’s author, who was counsel to the House Judiciary Committee during the Nixon impeachment must have winced when he saw this glaring omission.
7
"What will it take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump?"
GUTS.
4
Pelosi is kind of on the wrong side of history here. Why can’t AOC be in charge already...oh well, I guess I have to wait for the old folks to give up their death grip on the democrats.
1
Why, because she won against a 65 year old white man representing a Puerto Rican neighborhood? Good looking. Good energy. A problem for Trump. Not the leader of the party thank God.
Impeachment like a fine wine should not be opened before it's(sic) time.
Sheer incompetence should be ground enough to replace this man. One wonders why Americans are not ashamed of having him in the first place.
2
There is no winning strategy here. As with narcissistic CEOs who destroy companies, it's their successors who appear as the fools to the casual observer. And if the successor is chosen by the narcissist, they are fools just like our vice president.
2
Wouldn't a good play about Watergate be worth more than these pathetic efforts to recreate it?
Pretty simple: Too many House districts could switch to Trump by morning, forget 2020. House back in Republican hands despite all the noise coming from Cortez's "glass of water" corner of the House.
TThe impeachment inquiry actions regarding Nixon and Watergate shined a bright light on Nixon's machinations and his unfitness for office. Never was I so proud to be an American, because those of us that lived through that period of American history got to see the patriotism manifested by both Democrats and Republicans, but more importantly, we were left with no doubt that the rule of law was the ultimate concern of the nation and that no one was above the law.
But now, this citizen and taxpayer of many years has serious doubts about the rule of law being the ultimate concern for many Americans, especially the Republicans in Congress, who clearly value loyalty to party as their ultimate concern--Justin Amash is the exception, of course, but he saw the problem and preserved his integrity by leaving the Republican Party. In the days of Watergate, many Republicans manifested the same integrity as Amash.
This voter strongly supports impeachment, since I believe an impeachment inquiry would do for a majority of Americans what the reading of the Mueller report has done for others, such as Justin Amash. Trump's machinations need to be understood, just as those of Nixon came to be understood. Although I doubt that the Senate, because of its Republican control, would ultimately remove Trump, I have to believe that voters will do the right thing in 2020. If not, then the "government of the people, by the people, for the people," may just "perish from the earth."
6
Arguments against an impeachment proceeding that I’ve seen here are purely defeatist and amount to giving up and letting Trump do what he wants to defy checks and balances. Can it be that an impeachment inquiry is not an end in itself? Is there not a bottomless pit of wrongdoings by Trump to investigate, starting with his taxes, and could it not take years? Right now, we have an AG that is doing his best to stamp out any investigations. He believes that there is no end to Presidential Power, except he acknowledges impeachment as a check. Therefore, why not use legal arguments of a impeachment inquiry to start the process moving. Right now, the process of investigation has pretty much stalled out.
5
Come on folks, Nancy Pelosi knows what she is doing.
Has Trump committed impeachable offenses? Absolutely!
What are the chances that the GOP controlled Senate will impeach him? 0.
What are the chances that a failed impeachment attempt will energize Trump's base and guarantee his re-election? Very likely.
This has very little to do with protecting the constitution or doing what is right. If Democrats don't win the presidency in 2020 such issues will be the least of our problems.
3
So here is our President bragging not that long ago:
"You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," Trump said.
Incredible! Yes, indeed. But what if that person were Mitch McConnell? Right. Wouldn't be enough. He would have to shoot five Republican Senators to lower the numbers for a 'Pence-proof' Democratic majority. Such is the loyalty of the Republican stooges in the Senate.
I was hopeful that the Southern District would move quickly to shine some light on Trump's corrupt business empire and his family's involvement with their shady dealings. I thought the NY Attorney General would have his tax filings by now. Now I guess I hold little hope for the Mueller testimony to shine any further light on the obstruction allegations.
It is hard to tell if Ms Pelosi is playing checkers or chess. The Republicans are quite capable of flipping the game board and walking away. It feels like our democracy is being slowly and effectively dismantled. Barr. McConnell, Graham, Pence. The four enablers.
2
How about when there is even the slightest possibility of actually getting a conviction in the senate?
What Will It Take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump?
It will take a Democratic majority in both the House of representatives and the Senate. As long as the Senate is controlled by Mitch McConnell and his subservient impotent peers, who are afraid of Donald Trump and who put their own personal interests above the threats to our democracy, nothing will happen.
The House would vote to impeach Trump. The Senate would vote against impeachment. Trump would claim victory, declare that the process was a witch hunt, and state that the lack of support on the Senate side is proof of his innocence.
THAT is how corrupt the Republican machine has become.
1
How is it possible that a person like Trump who is about as low as a human being can get, who has broken laws, who has assaulted Democracy and the Constitution that he took a oath to protect, kissed up to murderous dictators, not be considered for impeachment? What will it take, Pelosi?
5
I'd like to see Trump resign as much as anyone, but it's not going to happen. Impeachment proceedings would be pointless, even destructive to Democrats, who need to send a strong message that we are united in advocating for the betterment of all American citizen's quality of life, especially those who are earning less than $250,000/year.
Unless the American people take to the streets, (not Twitter), in large numbers to vigorously protest the President, (as they did in the early 70's), and a majority of Republican Senators grow a spine to go against Trump and McConnell, impeachment proceedings would be a waste and likely a losing embarrassment for Dems.
1
Rep. Dulski's statement that he couldn't vote to impeach ANY president because it would be a "sacrilege" says a lot about what's wrong with many politicians. Last time I looked, a president was not a god, nor does he have the "divine right of kings." And despite the beliefs of many Trumpistas and evangelical Christians, the current occupant of the White House is not the Messiah.
5
What makes Democracy work is that it is supposed to have a system of checks and balances. That the Democrats cannot organize enough to enforce checks and balances on the most devious president ever, just supports Trump the dictator. I have lost all confidence in our Democracy and the Democrats abdicating their ability to do their job is the main reason.
3
Whether or not the democrats choose to initiate impeachment proceedings is, in reality, irrelevant. In his book, "America, The Farewell Tour", Pulitzer prize winning author and long-time NYT war correspondent Christopher Hedges stated quite unequivocally, that Trump is just a symptom of forty years of gradual American decline in which, unless something drastic occurs, all the evidence is pointing to the undeniable fact that within 20 yrs. (or less) as a country, America will cease to exist. Hedges is far from the only scholar that predicts that scenario. The divisions are just too deep.
Trump, his Trumpublican cronies, approval ratings that continue in the 40s for an authoritarian, criminal president, and overwhelming support by Republican voters are just hastening that process. Buckle up America.
4
Anyone who wants to impeach President Trump is nuts. I voted for Hillary but am living my day just fine with him in office. He does unpopular practices, like the immigration issue, but nothing illegal. Just vote him out in 2020.
Democrats are waiting to see what impact the Meuller testimony has on public opinion before they go forward with impeachment.
It's not a very strong argument to most people to impeach him for maybe or maybe not obstructing an investigation into a crime he never committed (report found no indictable proof of obstruction and certainly no collusion).
In fact it's pathetic.
Impeach and unify for 2020. We can't look at ourselves in the mirror another day until you impeach.
3
Uh, perhaps some vague chance of success?
If "they " won't even consider impeachment, what are we to do? One thing I would suggest is to support (i.e. send contributions to) Amy McGrath's campaign against Mitch McConnell (Kentucky) -- even if we live in a distant state.
Without McConnell's support in the Senate, what would Trump be? Old and more or less impotent, although still barking too much.
Will it work? Hard to say, but worth trying.
[N.B. -- You can contribute to McGrath's campaign through ActBlue. That's what I did yesterday evening.]
4
Or, anything for that matter...
The senate is not Pelosi but Schumer’s responsibility. He is too weak to continue serving. I would like to see a ground swell with this hashtag. #dumpschumer.
1
What has Donald J. Trump done to deserve impeachment other than make America great again? Do the Democrats oppose making America great again? It seems that do based on the rhetoric heard on the campaign trial. I support the President. I support Trump. MAGA! KAG! Thank you.
1
Trump could shoot someone of 5th Avenue and Pelosi wouldn't call for impeachment.
3
Dead in the senate. So what’s the point?
Unity? We have that already. Due to fear of Trump, people are hanging back. Diplomats of friendly nations included. A supine Republican Party. A cowardly bunch of Dems. They’re all united in Trump-induced cowardice.
What will it take to turn things around? CONSCIENCE! Fidelity to the Oath of Office. Courage! The courage to put one’s convictions first, ahead of bullying, ahead of one’s job retention, ahead of one’s fears.
I am disgusted that too many politicians are timid in the face of a bully, someone lacking in any principles, virtues or ideals.
It’s time for elected officials to stand up. It is time for courage. For CONSCIENCE!
5
Why we're where we are:
"Men" like Trump, McConnell have the fortitude to stand up for their crimes.
"Humans" like Pelosi and Schumer don't have the courage to stand up for their supposed principles.
Maybe we're drawing a distinction where there is no difference. Maybe "both sides" are really just one side, and they're all simply greedy and lusting for power. Maybe Pelose and Schumer know who they really are, but are ashamed to admit it. Maybe the "honest" people are actually Trump and McConnell.
Horrible to conceive, right? But come up with a better explanation for what's staring us all in the face.
3
Democrats Unite? Ha. The democratic party is a party in a very crude sense, a party in name only, look at the new faction or should I say fraction led by AOC, how it seeks to undermine an accomplished women House speaker, they should be embracing Pelosi, by they have communist tendencies, and the communist playbook is to push out the old and seize power...and then never give it up. The democrats better get their act together, if they can't understand that the enemy is Trump and they better "Avengers Assemble" around their Captain before its too late...or they are doomed to insignificance, the American people will see them as dangerous with leftist tendencies that are not shared by most Americans. Venezuela went leftist...see what it got them.
Dear Democrats:
Please impeach President Trump.
Please start a third party.
Please continue to support illegals over Americans.
Democrats supporting illegals over Americans? When this touted roundup of illegal immigrants begins, we’ll see who is hiring them. How many of those businesses that were sent IRS ‘no-match’ letters do you think will be raided? How many processing plants, construction projects, health care concerns- will have to close? But this president, in advocating for expanded visas for temporary, seasonal help,will keep his golf club open.
Please Republicans, round up illegal workers. So your...base...can see who supports them.
1
@Dr. John
“Love your neighbor as yourself.” That’s not putting anybody above anybody else.
P.S. Jesus said it.
Trump and his base have been saying he's exonerated anyway, so what difference will a Trump owned Senate not indicting him make? None. Of course, we should begin impeachment hearings immediately! I am not interested in the political interests at all. If any POTUS has obstructed justice it is Trump. And he's still doing it in plain sight. If we are hope for more from any POTUS, we cannot pretend that this is normal. Begin impeachment hearings immediately and let the public see the televised hearings. We can't bring anyone along with transcripts of the closed door hearings. Let the people see and hear what is really happening. Then we have, at least, a hope that the majority of Americans will demand he resign or be indicted.
5
Tom Styer has announced his entry into the presidential race. Works for me. I think the pressure on Speaker Pelosi to impeach is about to increase.
Open an official impeachment inquiry in the House. We out here deserve to hear truth, facts. We deserve subpoenas that can’t be ignored, financial records that can’t be hidden, a list, litany, of rules, laws ignored, international influences revealed.
And most of all, we need confidence in the legitimacy of our next presidential election. Why are Republicans not funding election aid to the states to the max? Why no support for automatic, selective recounts of any paper ballots?
Two people, McConnell and Pelosi, stand in the way of Congress doing it’s Constitutional duty. We need truth. Wherever it leads.
5
Over 500 former Department of Justice officials signed a letter stating their opinion that Mueller Report evidence on obstruction of justice would in fact support an indictment of Trump if he were not a sitting president. That is a powerful statement, one suggesting Trump is "above the law" only because of his office. When Mueller testifies to the House committee on July 17 (on live TV) he should be asked to expand upon the reasoning for his decision not to bring an indictment. Was it only because Trump is president and due to the OLC protocol? Or was it because the Mueller team felt the evidence was insufficient?
6
So let me see if I am understanding the Anti-Impeachment Democrats:
"It is politically disadvantageous, and that is more important than what is ethical and moral."
Yep, I think I've got it straight.
8
After the Mueller report was finished, this administration immediately started claiming exoneration, even though the report said nothing of the sort. That is what was reported on Fox, and that is what is being believed by the base that lives in the propaganda bubble.
If Trump is impeached, there is absolutely zero chance it will be backed up by the Senate. The administration will once again tout exoneration, the base will not only cheer but continue believing even more strongly that Trump is being unfairly persecuted, and more moderate voters not taking to doing their own research might be taken in by this narrative as well.
So what will impeachment in the house accomplish, exactly? I know if I were forty years younger I'd be screaming for it, the pushing sixty all I can see is the folly and pure showmanship in the attempt.
2
Democrats in the House should forget about impeachment, as it has no chance of going anywhere with the current Senate. Instead, they should concentrate on proposing and passing legislation that will help the vast majority of Americans, on such topics as climate change, health care, education, taxes, the minimum wage, etc. This would set them up for congressional victories in 2020, when the legislation can actually be passed and signed by a Democrat in the White House.
3
@James Ward
" Instead, they should concentrate on proposing and passing legislation that will help the vast majority of Americans, on such topics as climate change, health care, education, taxes, the minimum wage, etc."
And in fact they HAVE passed such legislation
https://www.vox.com/2019/5/24/18637163/trump-pelosi-democrats-bills-congress
but all the column inches covering (well-deserved but Republicans will refuse) impeachment and ignoring policy have pushed McConnell's refusal to vote on any constructive legislation
of this out of the news
2
I have a couple of questions for those who oppose beginning an impeachment inquiry: Should the impeachment clause of the constitution be ignored? Outside treason and bribery, which are clearly laid out in the constitution as a cause for impeachment, what would Trump have to do to warrant beginning an impeachment inquiry?
4
Most Democrats would love to impeach Trump. However, as long as there's a Republican-dominated Senate, Trump is not going to be impeached.
The only possible way Democrats can end Trump's presidency is to win the next election.
If they can get their act together behind a presidential candidate who can attract a wider base than Bernie Sanders did, they can oust Trump.
If they waste time, money and energy trying to force the Democratic party in Congress to start impeachment proceedings which cannot possibly succeed...there'll be four more years of Trump.
2
It's obvious that this Senate (McConnell, Graham, et al) will never vote to remove Trump from office. And, so, the initiation of impeachment proceedings would be a symbolic gesture. But, symbolic gestures are not without value or importance. The House could take a position and that's a rare thing in U.S. politics these days. Actually standing for something is a good thing. And, the initiation of impeachment proceedings would give true patriots in the Senate the opportunity to act (whereas doing nothing deprives such folks the opportunity). Finally, if not now, when? That is, if this President has not crossed the line, what grounds would be sufficient to warrant impeachment in the future?
1
I am for impeachment and Trump's removal from office; but I do not want to be shooting blanks.
Okay, suppose that the House impeaches Trump. It goes to the Senate for trial. It requires a two-thirds vote to convict. This will not occur and Trump will argue in the election that he was totally exonerated of all charges. Is he more or less likely to win "re-election?"
Suppose in 2020 the Dems hold the House and flips the Senate. Before Trump is sworn in for his 2nd term, if he wins, which is unlikely but possible, then is the time to begin impeachment proceedings, for both Trump, Mike Pence, Wm. Barr and the rest of his cabinet.
There is an alternative for right now. Impeach Wm Barr an the entire cabinet for abuse of power and obstruction of justice now. These hearings will be public and on television. See if the Speaker can see this as a compromise. Then leave the whole kit and kaboddle up to the voters in 2020.
2
@Sheldon Bunin Or, the Dems could lose the House as their supporters stay home on election day. Ouch!
1
I just completed reading yesterday Steve Kornacki's 2018 book "The Red And The Blue" - The 1990's and the Birth of Political Tribalism... I was an adult for both the Nixon Watergate hearings and the Clinton impeachment... Nixon resigned 45 years ago this August, and historians will cite the Obstruction of Justice which would have been the third article of impeachment. Clinton was impeached on two counts what we know was an attempt to remove a "stain" on the presidency. The book ends with the "election" of Bush in 2000. Since that time, the book states at the very end that ALL the networks called the Red States Republican and the Blue States Democratic for the first time... These terms 19 years later mean much more in everyday news, politics and normal conversation. Yes, there is a great divide in this country, one that will not be resolved by the impeachment of Trump... This past election brought back the House of Representatives back to the Democrats under Nancy Pelosi's leadership. She has been in Congress since 1987 and knows that any articles of impeachment brought against Trump would not pass in the Republican (McConnell) controlled Senate. The best I/we can hope for is an awakening of our senses to vote in the primaries for the BEST ticket to remove Trump and Pence... Buckle your seatbelts it's going to be a tough ride.
3
Tip O'Neill was not speaker of the House during Watergate. It was Carl Albert. Makes me wonder what other facts this guy got wrong.
3
"This move will not be successful" is a poor excuse for inaction.
Every positive legal and social advancement in American history--the end of slavery, women's suffrage, protections for labor, civil rights-- failed several times before it succeeded.
Now we have a president who appears ready to defy a Supreme Court decision (the nationality question on the census) after other unprecedented demonstrations of his corruption and incompetence.
If the Democrats don't even try to defend the Constitution, what good are they? If they keep compromising with the kinds of Republicans who are pushing the nation headlong into fascism, what good are they?
5
We're in this mess with Trump because too many in politics do what is politically expedient instead of what is right.
The was the method of the entire right when they nominated that guy... and now it's our method for keeping him there.
It shouldn't matter if your argument is a winner or loser, only that it's righteous. And if not this guy for impeachment, then who? What is the point if impeachment even being a thing, if not this guy? I don't care if it's a winner... the historical record won't either. It will matter that the record even exists, though... that much is paramount.
3
Moral authority in a nation riddled throughout its history with enslavement, genocide and environmental destruction? Of course the establishment Democrats would hesitate to prosecute someone who is the epitome of America’s no holds barred system of governance. In America the winners take what they want from the losers. Unless the Democrats know they will win in the impeachment of the President they will not attempt it. It has nothing to do with moral authority.
2
Perhaps Trump thumbing his nose at the supreme court on the census question will prod Nancy Pelosi into proceeding with an impeachment inquiry.
1
Impeach Trump?
QUESTION: What is the underlying crime?
Historical Cases: Obstruction of Justice and underlying crime
- Bill Clinton was impeached by the United States House of Representatives in 1998 for obstruction of justice charges based on allegations CLINTON LIED about his relationship with Monica Lewinsky in a sworn deposition in the Paula Jones lawsuit. This made Clinton only the second U.S. president to be impeached after Andrew Johnson. He was later acquitted by the Senate.
Crime: Lying under oath
- Richard Nixon was being investigated for obstruction of justice for his alleged role in the cover-up of the break-in at the Watergate hotel during his re-election campaign in 1972. Although it is unknown whether Nixon had foreknowledge of his re-election committee's "dirty tricks" campaign against Democratic presidential candidates that led to the break-in, HE WAS AWARE OF IT AFTER THE FACT AND PAID MONEY TO KEEP THE PARTICIPANTS QUIET.
Crime: Bribery
2
If even half of what's been said about Trump by Democrats (and parroted by their disciples in the mainstream media) is true, then the House is derelict in their duty to the Constitution.
However - and this is where Pelosi is a shrewd politician - much of it is more likely than not to be hyperbole and won't stand up to the harsh spotlight of the impeachment process. Pelosi knows that the biggest gift she can give to Trump is a failed impeachment, which will support his re-election effort immensely. Nixon was in his second term, so re-election didn't come into play - only how long he would remain President.
Unfortunately, the Democrats - with their array of nominees to this point - are going to make hard for many Americans to avoid voting for Trump. As crazy and repugnant as he is personally, many of his policies are preferred to those offered by Democrats - and that was before student loan forgiveness, free health care for illegal immigrants, and essentially doing away with any meaningful Southern border.
3
Just imagine how quickly the GOP would have fallen in line to impeach Obama had some minor transgression occurred in his administration.
2
So a vote for impeachment would be nothing more than symbolic? So what! Let’s take that symbol and run it up the flagpole and sing to it. Loud. And then louder
4
@Clayton Marlow, how about we all unite as democrats and allies, as one, and actually vote Trump out in a year? That's something that can succeed. And the world will join the song.
1
Pelosi isn't really any different from Republicans with regard to impeachment. Her only real concern is political effect, not whether it is the proper thing to do.
It is time we face the fact that a president is essentially above any law, whether it be domestic or international. This nonsense about the US being governed by the 'rule of law' is a lot of nonsense.
So a vote for impeachment would be nothing more than symbolic? So what! Let’s take that symbol and run it up the flagpole and sing to it. Loud. And then louder
3
Michael Conway
Basic reality calling......
Who controls the US Senate? (GOP)
Who would have to convict trump? (GOP)
Bringing articles of Impeachment is a fools errand, guaranteeing trump's base will be riled up and voting in the next election, feeling aggrieved at the notion that the Liar In Chief was (gosh) asked to account for things...and then let walk by the GOP.
Period.
2
@Paul P.
No, it's an obligation. McConnell should also be removed from office.
1
@Jbugko
I agree McConnell should be removed from office. But let's put the rubber on the road....trump will NEVER BE CONVICTED in the Senate.
Bringing articles of impeachment does *nothing* other than to rile his base and tilt the election HIS way.
1
Well he claims he can walk out of Trump Tower and shoot some random citizen point blank walking in front of his building, and due to the "loyalty" of his administration and his base he wouldn't be indicted.
Perhaps he also wouldn't be impeached. What WILL it take, Nancy. Just what will it take. I don't care that Mitch McConnell would probably give Trump a standing ovation were he to commit murder.
The delay is beyond outrageous.
3
There are dozens of very good reasons, and mountains of evidence, to impeach Trump. Mueller pretty much served it all up on a silver platter for Pelosi. But what what did she do? She took Barr’s absurd interpretation as the truth and chose not to impeach. And the Democrats, who worship Pelosi for some reason, followed suit. Pelosi is as complicit as McConnell in the Great Trump Crime Spree.
I’ll never understand it. Is she that lazy? Does Trumpco have kompromat on her? It doesn’t make any sense. And not impeaching does not help the Democrats one iota as far as the next election.
5
Your comparing apples to oranges. Trump did not do what Nixon did......not even close.
1
Democrats will lose if they try too much politic. People hate phonies who do nothing. Nancy Pelosi will be remembered as one who could not win even against Trump, because she wanted to be too smart.
4
When trump defies the Supreme Court today by announcing an Executive Action to include citizenship in the census, it will all be the fault of the Democratic party who refused to hold this vile, lawless, amoral excuse for a human to account.
The Democratic party will be entirely complicit in the most egregious and direct assault to our system of government in the history of this country. Kudos Nancy. You're just so sly.
2
@Chris, no. She's a good leader and decent person. Really. And the conspiracy talk of horrible democrats and waving arms over the latest headline-seekers and such are attempts to cause hatred among democrats. It gave us Trump in 2016. That's the sly part.
1
I think Pelosi is wrong.
She is missing a golden opportunity to end her career on a high note as a patriot.
I wish she would reconsider and proceed with impeachment of the creature in the White House.
3
When Nixon resigned in August 1974, his Gallup Job Approval Rating was 25%. So far, Trump's Gallup numbers have not been
below 35% and are presently in the low forties.
Suppose the Democrats could pass Articles of Impeachment in the House. Then what?
Welcome to the tender mercies of Mitch McConnell. If Trump's Gallup Numbers hold up to present levels, Mitch could torture the
Democrats by not even getting around to scheduling a Trial in the Senate. Who's going to force him? The courts can't intervene on a matter involving the internal workings of the legislative branch.
Nancy has thing figured out. She doesn't tilt at windmills.
76
@Tom Callaghan if the impeachment inquiry is timed properly, where the public can see and hear the logical and obvious conclusions that the investigation uncovered thereby bringing public outrage, then and only then, pass the gavel to the Senate.
Let them deny the accusations prior to election day. The public outrage will surely cost a few senatorial seats.
This must be done .
Every day Trump is undermining the rules of law, that our democracy was founded on.
What is to become of the United States
17
An House impeachment investigation need not end in passage of Articles of Impeachment. And the Senate cannot reject Articles of Impeachment never passed. So the House should open the investigation to push aside Trump's ability to thwart information gathering, then expose Trump's misdeeds to the voting public. The House does not need the Senate!
22
@Tom Callaghan But the reason Nixon's numbers dropped from about 70% after election, to 25%, was because of the hearings, John Dean's testimony, and, finally, the tapes. If there are no hearings, no testimony, there is no chance to reach people whose opinions can be changed by information outside the exoneration/Fox force field. They need to start, they need to be public, they need to be widely televised, but they don't need to be "impeachment" hearings. Senate Republicans will be moved by threats to reelection, nothing less.
22
It's all about timing the impeachment hearings to inflict maximum damage on Trump and the Republican party.-- and right now is too early for that. Pelosi understands this which is why she's playing the clock out in order to weaponize impeachment hearings. Impeachment itself shouldn't be the goal-- the end game is the decimation of the GOP's minority hold on power, and Democrats retaking the Senate and Presidency, and holding the House.
1
Well, there is one key difference, Mr. Conway, Nixon was guilty as sin and Trump is, as it turns out, more or less the victim of a hyper-aggressive two-year make-believe fishing expedition in which he was completely exonerated of the original crime.
I expect Ms. Pelosi doesn't want to impeach him because she has at least a grain of sense and understands that it would be a fruitless endeavor and, more importantly, serve to aggressively destabilize the country.
Here is one reason why.
At the outset of the "Mueller investigation" the most objective legal minds in the most nonpartisan publications said that they would find nothing substantive on Russia but that they could get anyone and anything on perjury or obstruction.
Overthrowing the president on a legal technicality for a crime he did not commit is, in the eyes of most Americans, a coup d'etat.
Even if it did not lead to revolt it would set precedent for the next president -- launch an asinine investigation and throw a billion dollars of resources at it, then bring everyone, including the president, down for obstruction or perjury.
Yes, that is what happened with Clinton, but he committed blatant, unequivocal perjury. Maybe that investigation should have never taken place; I don't know.
But making a horrible idea that can threaten to topple the stability of our government a tradition is not the answer.
I would say Democrats should beat Trump at the polls but that is looking increasingly unlikely to me.
1
Nixon pushed the button that set his impeachment in motion by engaging in the Saturday Night Massacre. We can hope that Trump will engage in actions and/ or that facts will be revealed about his past that will make impeachment inevitable.
1
Before we get there we need to know how and when subpoenas became like dinner invitations with an RSVP.
The failure of the House to enforce subpoenas means that Watergate hearings would suffer the same fate. How, for example, do convicted felons like Flynn and Gates get to decide not to show up for subpoenaed testimony?
Given the fact that the Senate is in complete denial the only benefit to impeachment is the hearings. If people insist that subpoenas are optional then what is the point?
1
I think that part of the answer lies in who owns the lawmakers.
1
Pelosi's strategy of staying the course as if these were normal times, even in the face of many impeachable acts done by Trump, will backfire in November 2020. We elected a House democratic majority to stop Trump's many unlawful acts as president. So far, any actions taken by the House Dems have been largely cosmetic. Should this path continue, many in the Democratic base will be demoralized. As a result, the Republicans will likely regain the House, along with Trump's reelection.
5
The impeachment process has clear guidelines defined by our forefathers and is in our Constitution as a tool for those who are responsible to check power. It has one purpose. To expose through investigation, evidence of malfeasance by a leader. If actionable behavior is found to meet the standards for prosecution, the Senate holds a trial.
A President cannot be charged with crimes and held accountable in any other way while in office. It is meant to assure the people that we will not be served by a corrupt or dangerous leader. The consequences can be political, but the decision to impeach should not be. It's not meant to be a calculation in the service to gain or keep power.
Those in our government who have decided not to hold this President accountable given the evidence in plain site that clearly justifies this response, are derelict in their Oath to protect this government and the people who is served by it. The message to the people with this choice to let him "impeach himself" is not an acceptable consequence for the attack on our Democracy by this man.
They have chosen to protect power instead of the people.
Why?
Voting, engaging in our elections with real effort and holding our reps accountable is not a priority We get out of our government what we put into it.
Big Money owns our government and they have decide who we vote for, for decades.
Our lack of engagement defines how our reps behave.
They represent us with the same indifference.
VOTE
5
Nancy Pelosi is playing the same game as the Republicans. Both are worried that supporting an impeachment inquiry will mean a loss of seats for their respective parties in 2020. As long as politicians continue to put the rule of party above the rule of law, we will continue to be ruled by King Donald.
5
Maybe Mueller's testimony can soften Nancy's rigid refusal to give in to the justified calls for impeachment. It seems that if the Democrats proceed now, the impeachment process will be well baked in with all the other shocks to our political system a year from now, and will not only give Democrats much more access to more evidence of obstruction, but the airing of all the evidence can more powerfully energize the Democratic base, Obama coalition, and independent moderates still waiting to commit to voting Trump out.
I just think it would be more politically damaging to him and his party if we wait until next spring. We will first see the dragging out of allegations and accusations, the litany of defects of the main the Republicans have been supporting. Then, when the time comes to vote, the votes to let him get away with it will be fresh on their records. Finally, during the Presidential election and debates with the Democratic candidate, the President's flaws will be on the top of everyone's minds, putting him on the defensive. Wait until you can see the whites of their eyes.
IF politics could be practiced by emotion and not common sense I'd agree to the idea of Impeachment. I don't think I need to explain my meaning - all readers with common sense will understand precisely what I'm talking about.
3
But Nixon was a featherweight compared to Trump.
Do I need to list the problems with Trump, the worst of which is courting Putin's good will. Nixon was caught covering up a DNC burglary.
Trump threatens our democracy to the core. Nixon never had the audacity, perhaps because we were a more ethical society then.
So failure to even begin impeachment hearings against Trump is an absolute dereliction of duty.
It's instructive to look at the trends in party identification. For Dems the peak was 60% Dem party identification in the 1950's and again just after Watergate. It has declined steadily since then to 27% now. The R's have been steady at about 30% in the past 70 years.
IMHO, the Dems have joined the R's in their support of corporate wealth. They have and continue to fail the rest of us. I am a DINO just to make sure I can vote in their primaries. And I couldn't be more disdainful of Pelosi's tight control of her poor subjects while passing off Congressional responsibility to check the President to Mueller and now to the voters. But what if Trump surprises the Dems in 2020 as he did in 2016. Why let Trump run for another four years as though the Mueller report never happened.
3
The Republicans need to impeach Trump. It was the Republicans who moved against Richard Nixon.
1
They should wait until they know the Senate will convict. And we know when that will happen. There would be a media hailstorm covering impeachment detracting from the really important coverage of candidates and policies. Why the distraction? Focus on what’s important and possible...removing Trump from office.
2
Knowing impeachment will fail to remove Trump, we hear that it will be a symbol of defiance or of our defense of the rule of law. Actually, this is mostly about people wanting to sow division in our party and to enhance their popularity and publicity; we see that division spoken to daily. Our efforts need to be on unifying our party, or Trump will win again, symbolism and law be damned. Give Pelosi a Democratic Senate and she would dance to impeach him and remove him. Something those who want a failed attempt because gee they do will preclude if they have their way. Those who are trying to splinter us now are not our friends, or our nation's.
4
Pelosi's refusal to approve an official congressional impeachment investigation has the unmistakable appearance of, at best, a purely political calculation, principle be damned. At worst, it appears to be both political and moral cowardice. Either way, her standing in the way of justice being served merely strengthens Trump's hand. Every day that goes by without an impeachment process underway, Trump's obvious and numerous violations of his oath of office and his duties to protect and defend the constitution and laws of the United States become more normalized and more firmly established as a precedent for this and all future presidents. There comes a time, in the face of violations of public trust and transgressions against civil society and the norms of democratic institutions, when failure to act as a check against these violations becomes tantamount to acquiescence. For Pelosi vis-a-vis Trump, that time has already passed.
4
Damned if you do, damned if you don't; caught between a rock and a hard place ...
Trump will continue to run rough-shod over our democracy because NO ONE is holding him accountable (where are the protests in the streets?). To be sure, he will sign an executive order and place a citizenship question on the census - despite SCOTUS's denial (on the grounds that the argument for it was "contrived," not because it was inappropriate). Our only hope lies with groups such as the ACLU who will, no doubt, file against the executive order; but my guess is that no one in Congress - whose responsibility it is to oversee the Executive Branch - will act.
It is true that the impeachment proceedings were slow to get started in 1973, I remember that period well; however, that was a different time and the Republican Party was a different animal. There was a sense of propriety - if one was subpoenaed, one complied. In our current state, people have learned that if one is subpoenaed, one needn't respond because, if nothing else, one can run out the clock and force Congress to enforce their subpoena, which, it seems, goes nowhere in the immediate, and could take a couple to several years to be enforced.
Congress and its committees hold hearings, folks don't show or stonewall, outrage is expressed at the lack of cooperation by the witnesses who respond by simply saying (as they have learned from their master), "So sue me."
2
As a lifelong Democrat, it's difficult for me to find a clear rationale or a focused message issuing from the party right now. So many candidates. Pelosi vs the young enclave of four. Those for or against the impeachment process. The only overarching theme seems to be an anti-Trump sentiment -- but without public agreement about how to approach that, because Trump sucks up media attention like a gigantic Hoover vacuum cleaner.
Having lived through the Nixon era, I recall the jubilation when the man resigned. I can't imagine Trump doing this, no matter what. The times are different, the country more divided than even Vietnam caused, and Congress is barely functioning.
"Unforeseen events" is a really loaded phrase here. War with Iran? Economic disaster? Or scandals more heinous than we've already seen? I don't have the imagination for it.
4
@SGK, I don't get why so many people seem to be ignoring the fact that we can vote him OUT in a year. We should be finding allies, supporting each other, running voter registration drives, and more. Not acting like a dramatic impeachment and failure to remove him is our only chance to--what? It's all about 2020, and letting people distract and divide us is a big mistake.
2
The crimes of Donald Trump are escalating by the second, everyday some new sleazy tidbit hits the news, anyone of whose sordid details would have brought down any moral man in any high position, but the President can only be checked by one body, that body is the Unites States Congress, in many ways that is their chief job, keeping the President in check, and it is a very important job, in fact no job is more important to the welfare of this nation. Their job is to hold a President accountable for his actions. A President must never be made to feel that he is above the law. It is the job of every woman and man in that congress to reign in the President, before a President begins to feel he is a King with no one to answer to but his own self. The Congress is sworn to protect the united States from all enemy foreign or domestic. The Congress took an oath of Allegiance to no one man or women they took it to the people of the United States. Do your job.
6
Lawrence Tribe (Constitutional Lawyer and Scholar) made a great deal of sense to me when he suggested that the House institute
Impeachment hearings with NO intention of sending it on to
the Senate for a vote, which is a completely co-opted body and will, lock-step, vote it down, no matter the findings...This could be the ultimate test of trump's 5th Avenue murder scenario.
Can he get away with anything and everything? Did Epstein? Can you and I?
It will of course, be a procedure fully protected by the Courts
including inescapable subpoena power. It will be a 'teach-in......
of essential information that the American People, many of whom are working two jobs and trying to hold house and home together
will need to know as they fill in their ballots. Stock Market quotations have little or no meaning to the vast majority of Americans, especially now as the 'real economy' is slowing down.
All that remains is the timing for the 'New trump show'to start.....
It will educate vast numbers of Americans gathered together in one classroom....and then Nancy can have her way, which is, rightfully, to dismiss the role of a frozen Senate and leave it
to the voters.
....and the voters will have some facts to take with them into the
voting booth to speak for the health and betterment of the country and the lives and futures of their families.
4
Nancy Pelosi loves to quote Lincoln on "Public Sentiment."
According to Lincoln," public sentiment is everything. With it, everything this possible. Without I nothing can be accomplished."
When Nixon resigned in August 1974 his Gallup Job Approval Rating was 25%. Trump's Gallup Job Approval has never been below 35% and recently hit 46%.
If Democrats started Impeachment Proceedings in the House,
Trump would have a field day tweeting and commenting on each day's activities.
Assuming the House could pass Articles of Impeachment that would put the ball squarely in Mitch McConnell's court. It would be up to Mitch when, or if, to schedule an actual trial in the Senate.
Suppose he just did nothing. What's the remedy?
If, and when, Trump's job approval rating gets down around 32%
Impeachment plus Conviction and Removal will move from possible to probable.
As usual, Nancy (and Abe) have it right.
1
Democrats descry the two-tired system of justice that allowed Epstein to get off easy. And yet, they are totally ok with allowing trump's crimes to go unacknowledged via impeachment proceedings.
Democrats against impeachment under the guise that the senate won't ultimately convict are supremely gigantic hypocrites. I'm pretty sure these are the same people who welcomed the Kavanaugh side show when they thought it would benefit them despite the fact that his nomination didn't have a chance of being impeded by the republicans. I'm pretty sure the house is passing bills with zero chance of making it to through the senate.
The only thing the democrats are demonstrating is that they are as grossly opportunistic and unprincipled as the gop when they believe their electoral victories could be negatively impacted.
We have endured endless assaults to the rule of law, to our democracy, and to general human decency. What makes this period so challenging is that we feel completely powerless in the face of the most egregious offenses being committed on an hourly basis. Everyday we all hope for some bombshell (as if we haven't endured a barrage) that will sink the occupant of the WH. And everyday we just take more.
At some point we have to point fingers at the Democrat's refusal to uphold their responsibility as legislators.
Pelosi doesn’t have time for such things as her actual constitutional duty and the demands of her constituents, she’s too busy coming up with zingers to throw at “the squad.” Honestly the current Dem leadership may not be up for the challenges that face us, and as much as I hate it part of me thinks that it will take another Trump victory — and a lot of retirements — before they are. Hope I’m wrong, but apparently they think that heaping scorn and condescension on progressives and especially young progressives of color will help them in the election. Ohhhhkay. Let’s see how that works out for ya. Maybe those Trump voters will all switch over and make up the deficit? Haha good one.
Earn our vote and support, Nancy, and spare us the insults: without progressives’ enthusiasm you are doomed.
1
I don't understand why the house can't begin an impeachment inquiry, regardless of the Senate. The inquiry would put the spotlight squarely on Trump's criminality and show that the Democrats have a spine. I'm disgusted that this barbarian in the White House gets away with more destruction every single day.
Maybe, just maybe, Ms. Pelosi is looking beyond her nose to see that the economy is exploding, Isis and Syria have completely vanished as areas of concern, and that America under Trump is moving forward so stunningly that its representatives ought to ignore this silly, petty squabbling that is derailing the country's course.
1
@wlt
"America under Trump is moving forward so stunningly?" Which 'America' are you referring to? The one where the unemployment numbers reflect people working two or three part time jobs with no health benefits? The one where farmers are eating soy beans they can't sell? The one where coal miners are still waiting for their chance to have black lung? The one where corporations are raking it in and raking it over US workers while farming out labor to other countries or is it the America where lies are truth, and alternative facts, hate speech and bigotry rule? Is that moving forward in your mind? If this is winning, I'd sure hate to lose.
1
Comparing apples to octopuses. This guy came into office with the full baggage of corruption, racism and misogyny. At least with Nixon, until Watergate, you could still argue whether he was a crook or not... Here, from day one of the campaign you had a person who had no business being where he was, he was a joke candidate like Lord Buckethead that somehow got taken seriously.
Failing to act in a united way will just normalize the behavior of trump and set a precedent that a future candidate will have to exceed before impeachment could begin... do we really need to have someone worse than trump and everyone is still standing around having this same discussion?
There are no high crimes and misdemeanors to speak of. This piece did not even bother to try to name a single one. The chief motivation of this impeachment discussion is personal hatred of the President.
2
Don’t start a fight that you can’t win...As frustrating as it is to stand and watch as every tenet of our democracy and decency is torn to shreds by Trump, he will not be impeached by this senate. The Democrats are not going to be the ‘one’ who emerges at the end, glove raised, bloody but triumphant. No, that will be Trump. The corrupt and cynical element that usually lurks beneath the surface has, with Trump, taken over. There is nothing good about Trump, everyone he appoints, everyone he knows , all his “good guys” are just like him. Dirty. His cult like followers like him just the way he is, and the rest of his supporters, the Mitch McConnells, and rest of the Republicans they like the power, the money, the impunity. If w
2
It's an election year that's why Pelosi has to reign in her progressive members of the House.
1
My personal guess? Is neither side wants too close a look at the events of the election. Remember that the rules are..fluid? And since the the Steele dossier was central to some of the issues. Who paid for it who it was discussed with, who leaked it with whose permission and knowledge. That also puts the Democratic campaign in the sights. Not unreasonably. The other 2 issues that neither side wants a close look at?
1) Foreign contacts? Anyone who believes that only the Trump campaign had contacts with foreign Governments? Hasn't been paying attention. The Clinton campaigns contacts were probably with our so called allies. But they would be fair game in an inquiry into the events of 2016.
2) Campaign financing and donations. Neither side can afford a close look at who bundled and rounded up rich donors and hosted 10K a plate fund raisers. If only because if they are traced back to the same for both parties. And again you may argue the unlike the Republicans who definitely crossed the line the Democrats were only unethical not illegal. Possibly true. But the exposure of how campaign finance works in the real world could be crippling to BOTH parties. Or do folks honestly expect people that investment bankers were bundling and organizing 10K a plate fund raisers for BOTH parties out of the goodness of their hearts? Or because they expected a quid pro quo down the line? No both parties are ethically challenged? at best. At worst they are has rotten has week old road kill.
To guarantee a 2nd term for Trump, then impeach. The Senate will acquit (100% guaranteed - no matter the charges, even imagining the worst), and Trump will play victim as always [amazing how he is always a 'winner', yet at the same time always a victim], bleating and screaming like the pig that he is - right back into the White House for 4 more years (or 8, 12 or 16 - notwithstanding the 22nd amendment). He might stay for a 2nd term (one way or another) even w/o impeaching - but impeaching will guarantee it.
1
Look at Clinton. She had a smirk on her face even in 1974. Let the Democrats play the impeachment card. It will guarantee a second term for President Trump. Americans can recognize a politically based false charge when it slaps them in the face.
2
Impeachment is not about conviction. It is about Congress's reaction to the high crimes and misdemeanors that this president has committed.
It is about the shame and humiliation of being impeached as punishment for said crimes and misdemeanors.
Just because this president is shameless does not mean it must not be done. A school kid gets suspended for bad behavior even if the kid is shameless about it, and even if the suspension does not result in dismissal from school.
Don’t you really mean “what will it take for Democrats to unite”? I am in despair over the failure of the party to unite to defeat Trump, let alone unite to impeach him. Shame on them for failing to see where the real threat to us all lies.
1
Trump is only a facet of the entire GOP obstruction of government, and Pelosi is very aware of this fact. The impeach Trump now folks are impetuous and are not savvy.
2
Is this a serious question?
Here is the answer: beyond what is possible.
How do you suppose neighborhoods, and classrooms facing a sociopath bully deal with their situation? Fear, self-preservation, cowardice, and a host of other factors get in the way of remedy.
Democrats are not moving toward impeachment because they have no currency, and afraid of the aftermath. They have no core constituency of very angry people who harbor a clear desire to hurt someone willing to go the distance for them (as do republicans). There is no vitriolic, combustive version of Limbaugh on the left. There is no left wing version of the religious right (or the unreligous wrong).
Republicans are united in vision: they must own all the goodies in America, share them with no one, and have the right to defile whom and what they want. Democrats are the weak do-gooders who we try to avoid; the buffoons who walk around hugging people and a script of bumper stickers. Republicans are the stern stromtroopers, marching around as people hide. Democrats are the overweight, sweat-pant wearing jobless person you avoid because he is about to hit you up for money to save his favorite toad.
Impeachment of Trump is up to Trump and republicans. If Trump's actions serve to get in the way of republicans' access to public coffers and public goods, there is a chance they may want him out. And he is doing nothing of the sort. Once Trump declares war on someone, watch the right fall in line.
I.e., no can do.
2
There is an election in 15 months.
1
A desire to lose the election to President Trump?
Impeach after the elections if ever. Get it out of the way right now so that we can focus on the needs of the country and how this administration isn't meeting them.
1
What will it take for Democrats to move on and come back to reality?
1
@JW, recognizing and refusing those who are daily sowing discord between us.
1
We the People must not let Congress or the Press turn a blind eye while the president tries to become king!
The Mueller Impeachment Referral* only details a few of Trump's many High Crimes.
I think this is what most people don't get: When the President of the United States TALKS about doing things that contradict the Constitution, it is a High Crime because it weakens the Constitution.
The whole point of Our Constitution was to replace political violence with debate and voting. Trump calls for violence without due process of law. That is HIGH CRIME!
The main way that the Constitution gets rid of random political violence is to take Sovereignty away from the King and to give it to We the People. POTUS is to faithfully execute the law (written by Congress and signed by POTUS).
We the People have not authorized POTUS to attack the FBI as traitors with ZERO evidence. (Carter Page was already under surveillance as a possible Russian asset before the Steele Dossier was written!)
That is a High crime, as is demanding personal loyalty from public servants, misappropriation, talking about being "president for life," refusing oversight, lying...
*Mueller said (in an empty forest):
-Putin ordered hacks of our actual election systems, plus DNC and Facebook, etc.
-Trump obstructed the investigation into that attack.
-We cannot clear Trump of crimes.
-"the Constitution has a process other than the criminal justice system to accuse a sitting president."
That process is impeachment.
What will it take? Perhaps a spine.
If there are any Watergate Era Demos left in office they should resign immediately as Term Limits dinosaurs.
Is it possible that the Democrats are going slow so that an impeachment inquiry can take place in 2020, closer to the election, rather than now?
@Dr if, or after. If he's reelected, a Democratic Senate could remove him. But not if we indulge in a certain-to-fail attempt now, to satisfy those who somehow think that would serve any purpose.
What WILL be enough?? Ignoring subpoenas, the Mueller report, caging and abusing children, being a sexual predator (in his own words, on tape), lying, praising dictators who are guilty of atrocities against citizens (and calling them friends), siding with a Saudi leader who killed a journalist. These are not make-believe charges. These are facts and any one of them makes me ashamed to be an American. If these are not impeachable offenses, then nothing will be. Democrats must have the courage to do the right thing, and soon before he destroys what's left of this democracy.
Pelosi and the Democratic Party must rise above the political game. The MOST important stand to take today ... and before it is too late, is through a show of force for by taking a strong stand for TRUTH, for JUSTICE and for the RULE of LAW. To do anything else is to be complicit with obstruction of justice, incompetence, voter suppression, cruelty and greed. Beginning impeachment of this corrupt president and his administration, if nothing else, will go down in history as firmly planting a stake in the ground in support of the Constitution. That strong, moral stand will be in direct opposition to all the underhanded shenanigans, obfuscations, bottlenecks and distractions fomented by our current executive branch of government and his henchman, McConnell. If the Democratic Congress does not take this true patriotic stand, it will go down in history as a fearful partisan underdog ... sure to lose the election in the big, rigged fight of 2020. What are you waiting for ... permission?????
1
If this man in the White House gets away with all he has done then he certainly can get away with murder a la 'shooting someone on 5th Avenue'. The dems must bring impeachment inquiry forward at once never mind that repubs wont vote in the senate-that remains an unknown. Pelosi just wants to hang on to her leadership but the cost is too high by letting Trump get away with well you know what. I left party affiliation with the dems because they do not fight and became independent and if they do not impeach they will never get my vote in the future!
Don't impeach as there is no appetite to convict.
1
Nancy Pelosi wants to treat Trump the way Alex Acosta treated Epstein.
And Pelosi not only wants to get away with it, she demands to stay in power, and demands respect. Just like Acosta.
1
@Robert Henry Eller, there's no parallel there. Pelosi is not going to begin impeachment while a republican senate would never convict. The ramifications go far beyond a mere "exoneration" for Donnie just in time for 2020. We need to prepare for an election that CAN remove him. She no more wants him in power than you do. You might consider this and try fighting republicans rather than dividing the democrats, or helping those who want to, who will face him next year for real.
2
This is a facile argument - there were Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate during Watergate, and there were some true patriots among the Republicans needed for the bipartisan resolution. Today's Republican-controlled Senate completely supports the dissolute, immoral Trump because they absolutely love his tax cuts for the wealthy, and the deregulation that's destroying our environment. The times, they really have changed.
123
@common sense advocate Republican controlled Senate meaning voted in by the people. Destroying our environment which can be debated as to how much we are responsible for when you look at China and India. Yes tell KY and West Virginia they must end coal while CA continues to pump how much CO2 into the air? CA produced 363.3 metric tons in 2016 while West Virginia produced under 100. Try looking up what we produce compared to China. Is CA willing to stop jobs and driving and and China end jobs but WVA should close down jobs? I got it, all Americans go without power 12 hours a day?
1
@JDSept
Perhaps you should consider that California has a population of 37,750,000 while W. Virginia has only 1,790,000 million people.
So California, with a population 21 times the population of W. Virginia generates 3.6 times more CO2. To put it another way, W. Virginians generate 0.055 tons per person while Californians generate 0.000000096 tons per person. Perhaps we should look at what the people in W. Virginia are doing before we look to Chine.
7
@Larry, well done! I always suspected that math skills were good for something, and you've shown their value.
2
Mitch McConnell is the key to this. If like many you believe he will stall any impeachment voted by the house, then the strategy becomes to maximize the public pressure between now and the election. The Democratic leaders in the House understand this, and are building momentum slowly. Summer is not the time for big actions, so they lay legal groundwork for opposing the administration's obstruction. This fall you can expect a crescendo of activity. To put it another way, Luciano Pavarotti did not start his arias with the high note, he built up to it.
4
A simple answer -
Republican Senators replace Sen McConnell as Majority Leader.
4
For heaven sake, stop the daily grousing and inflaming of internal disagreements. It only makes us look fractious, disorganized and incapable of governing...all of which plays right into Trump and McConnell's hands.
Pelosi is focused, experienced, sharp as a tack and a magnificent tactician. She knows where she's going, to wit to bring as much of the electorate as possible on board with the need for impeachment and as importantly when she will find it most productive to launch those proceedings.
Stop telling her how to steer the USS Impeachment. She'll begin docking that boat sometime around May or June, 2020.
12
The case for impeachment is not as compelling as being presented. Without conspiracy, the argument for obstruction gets even weaker.
Partisans tend to interpret the law however it suits them. They're supportive of the Constitution when it suits them, and quick to trash it when it doesn't. They demand that their political opponents follow the law but defend their own team when it doesn't.
It's personal for them with Trump. Their belief that the "case" to be laid out against him will be so compelling people will have no choice but to support their position is seriously misguided. Barr has weighed in, and his opinion carries significant weight.
5
It is my understanding that there is an intermediate step to impeachment, and that would be the establishment of an impeachment committee and investigation. Theoretically this would give the house Democrats more standing in the courts and expedite the fight against the obfuscation of the white house and the AG in gathering information. The result may or may not end up at impeachment, creating an investigation it is not a commitment to impeach, but it would put the Republicans on notice that the Democrats are serious. I cannot understand why this step was not taken months ago? The Democrats remind me of a football team that plays just hard enough to lose.
3
Moderate democrats agree with Trump and McConnell. Their reason for being in the DFL is to prevent the DFL from doing anything progressive and to protect wealthy people like Trump. The democrats of today are only slightly different from republicans. They wish that Trump was not so crass but they like his policies.
1
Although this president has committed may impeachable acts, it is useless to impeach him, if the Senate will not convict. Impeachment by itself is hollow--a slap on the wrist. Continue to have hearings and to build up evidence. However, until there is enough evidence so it becomes a political liability for Republican senators to continue to support the president, they won't vote to convict. Voting to impeach in the House w/o Senate conviction, will be a political "win" for the president. The Watergate message is: impeach only if conviction will follow.
7
I do not believe there is any moral imperative to impeach Trump, if the result would obstruct political efforts to get rid of him. We don't need a glorious lost cause.
A formal impeachment inquiry is not impeachment. It is an investigation into the President's conduct. If such an inquiry is held, it has to be done with the understanding that the President won't be convicted in the Senate based on anything the House does. In fact, I know of no mechanism that would force the Senate to act on articles of impeachment or to give it more than a one-day proforma debate before shutting it down.
So, an impeachment inquiry would have to be carried out with the understanding that it is solely to focus public attention on the President's conduct.
What worries me is months of 24/7 Trump filling the media, while Democrats are trying to get across their messages about the climate crisis, universal medicare and inequality. I want people talking about the Green New Deal, not Donald Trump.
There are reasonable grounds for impeachment, and if an impeachment inquiry can be organized in such a way as to increase the likelihood of Republicans losing in 2020, I'm for it. But not for any other reason.
4
@writeon1
I see...
Impeachment should only be used as a campaign tool for the Dems.
Ridiculous, but not surprising for the Dems
@DB, a campaign tool? You mean an effort to defeat Donald Trump? Yes. That.
1
By refusing to even acknowledge that we have suffered, and continue to suffer, major cyber attacks from a hostile nation, and consequently doing nothing about it, this reprobate continues to give aid and comfort to our enemies. Treason might be a reasonable cause to at least open an impeachment investigation and bring his conduct into full view, whether or not articles of impeachment are eventually drawn.
5
@Hub Harrington
Not to be too straightforward. But the Cyber attacks started long before Trump and none of his predecessors said or did anything either. Pretending that this only started with Trump is a mistake.
1
As we all know, Abraham Lincoln was one, of if not the most, skillful politicians to ever attain the White House. President Lincoln knew that he could not get ahead of public opinion on the issue of emancipation, though he favored it long before circumstances were ripe for popular acceptance.
It seems that Nancy Pelosi may be waiting for public support for an impeachment inquiry to build. It may be that Mueller's testimony next week will stoke the outrage of more voters to enable her to feel that the time has come.
I sure hope so.
Getting the facts before the people who don't read newspapers or watch reliable news is what is needed.
6
Like many Americans, I believe that Impeachment should begin now. It is, in many ways, inevitable. Reading the Mueller Report - my second time - I have noted the many times during the campaign Kushner et al were extremely careful to try to avoid any news media getting wind of Russian/campaign interaction. When Kushner couldn't remember the name of the Russian Ambassador, rather than simply calling the State Dept., he asked one of his aides to find the answer. Who does this? I think guilty people do this kind of thing. Interacting with a foreign country during a presidential campaign is highly suspicious, not to mention illegal, especially when the FBI is investigating the Russian meddling/interference they knew was going on. That Paul Manafort had worked on at least two other campaigns and must have known that protocol demands notifying the FBI if overtures by a foreign govt. are made, we can only assume the absence of that contact was deliberate. Conspiracy? Maybe not, but the whole thing smells like one big rat.
8
The Constitution makes impeachment difficult for good reason:
To avoid refighting past elections.
To protect separation of powers by limiting Congress's powers over the President.
Hence it is only appropriate, as this writer says, when the evidence is so overwhelming that support is bipartisan and equally overwhelming. When that condition is not met, failed impeachments damage those who bring them about, as in the cases of Presidents Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton.
5
The author downplays the role of those televised Senate hearings. Had those not occurred, the public would have rejected any attempt to impeach President Nixon.
Trump and his advisors are well-aware of this. Hence, their steadfast refusal to allow the public to hear any evidence pertaining to what they have done or what they continue to do.
13
The lack of a conviction on conspiracy makes any conviction on obstruction politically difficult, due to lack of intent. Further, of the ten cases of potential obstruction the unquestionable worst one was his direction to McGahn to fire Mueller. The fact that Trump reversed course on this direction prior to executing it makes the case for obstruction even weaker. At worse that amounts to thinking about obstruction, if that.
You can wheel out every technical argument you want, but impeachment is a political process. And if the McGahn direction is the worse you have on obstruction, then any impeachment attempt is going to backfire. Massively.
To the readers here, please try to separate your genuine concerns about Trump from the legal questions around the Russian collusion investigation. You will lose the center of the country in 2020 by trying to eject Trump via impeachment.
5
@AJ Your argument is defective.You are too close to the letter of the law, as always the anglo law is.
Intentionality is the fundamental motivation of the law.
Montesquieu.
You say " lack of intent " or intent only". That is contradictory. Or show a lack of jugement.
And a process of impeachment is not a trial. It is a political process by which the legitimacy of a president is questioned. And in that investigation, some new facts might be discovered or brought to the public eye ( the Mueller report is ignored by most Americans , who don't read ) or the attitude of the subject of the investigation might reveal himself or his entourage as more dangerous for the democratic continuity .
There is a vast difference between the personalities of Presidents Trump and Nixon, which should be noted when making comparisons because it affects how they are/were perceived by the public. There was always something dark and reclusive about Richard Nixon, even as an objective observer would admit that he was a serious man for serious times, and outwardly respected the office. It's important to remember also that one of the reasons he racked up 49 states was that his opponent, Senator George McGovern, ran one of the most incompetent campaigns of modern times. Meanwhile, President Trump is an open book, and a loose cannon at times, who also has the ability to speak directly to his followers. They like his style, and aren't going to budge from their support even if "unforeseen events" arise. President Nixon's base was a lot shakier, because they didn't have the personal liking for the man. Speaker Pelosi knows all this, and the reason she's quashing impeachment and the leftist rebels in her caucus is because she is trying to strengthen the environment in which the eventual Democratic nominee, whoever it is, can win next year. She has to keep the door open for the Democratic center, or it could all come crashing down in 2020.
5
Even facing the prospect of failure in the Senate, if the House doesn't move to form the committee after Mueller's testimony next Wednesday, it won't ever happen.
3
@MCV207
There will be no new revelations from Mueller's testimony.
It's just another spectacle to keep "the circus" going in what will be a failed 2020 campaign for the Dems.
The bigger question is: Will the Republicans ever wake up, smell the coffee (or in this case, the impending destruction of the American system of government), and do what is best for the country?
10
@Purl Onions The answer to that is no.
@Purl Onions.....that was a rhetorical question, right? The answer is obviously, "No." Trump is the GOP warlord and his gang will always obey him.
@Purl Onions
90% of the Republican Party still backs Trump.
They do not love him despite his corruption. They love him because of his corruption. It is impossible to have watched the Trump presidency for all of this time, even watching Fox News, without knowing in your heart that Trump is a liar, defrauding the American People. He brags about it too often.
The Party of Trump is the politically active, lying frauds who wrap themselves in the Flag and sing the Anthem while they attack the plain meaning of the Constitution
The Party of Trump has literally spent the last 50 years saying "the government is the enemy." If the government is their enemy, they have declared themselves the enemy of our government, Our Constitutional Republic.
Republicans oppose the Constitution. They:
-Try to divide our Union.
-Tell us that justice is too expensive or means that billionaire taxes are too high.
-Tranquility comes from a violent militarized police state.
-Instead of keeping troops home to defend, we should be on a constant aggressive and hugely expensive offense to benefit global shareholders.
-Instead of the general Welfare, we should promote the welfare of billionaires.
-Posterity means letting the climate change.
-Tell us that Taxing, Spending and Regulating are bad, even though those are the basic functions of our Constitutional Republic. Borrowing and spending is acceptable as long as you blame Democrats for the debt.
The whole Party of Trump is attacking our Republic!
I just can't see what good an impeachment hearing will do Democrats. They will never get the Senate to convict Trump, no matter the evidence or the crimes. Republicans simply won't do it. So, what will the Democrats have gained by their action? Trump will still be in office, bragging about how he slipped the noose, how they couldn't remove him, claiming that means he's "innocent," claiming he's been persecuted and harassed more than any other person on earth. His followers will rally behind him and nothing will change. Of course I understand the moral reasons for impeachment, but in practical terms I just don't see what difference it will make to have the House vote for it and the Senate to send the measure to the trash heap. No one will win but Trump.
7
@Ms. Pea I'm almost as tired of the "senate won't impeach" as I am of "we don't want Pence to be President." This kind of thinking only encourages Mitch and his followers to continue on their path of obstruction believing that there will be no consequences. Keep in mind that if an impeachment hearing is held, it will not be Mitch McConnell running the hearing. It will be Chief Justice Roberts. Given that he has sworn to be dedicated to the rule of law, the hearing would be very different from the way McConnell runs the Senate. This would put the Senators who are up for re-election in a terrible bind. Either they choose to follow the law or follow Mitch McConnell. Keep in mind that McConnell is not revered by most Americans, including Republicans. I do not believe this is an open and shut case.
@Ms. Pea
Mueller said:
Putin ordered attacks on our elections.
Trump obstructed the investigation into those attacks.
We could not clear Trump of crimes.
I'm referring this to Congress for impeachment.
Impeachment is not a tactic in a political campaign.
Impeachment is how you protect the Constitution from a president who thinks, and acts like, the presidency is all about Trump.
The Constitution says that the President of the Untied States is supposed to faithfully execute the law and protect the nation from attack. Trump is doing the opposite of both of those things, with the full support of 90% of the Republican Party.
The President is supposed to be a public servant. Every move Trump makes, shows that he thinks the public are his servants.
Trump talks about being "president for life," without mentioning constitutional term limits, then equates that to "king."
Trump demands personal loyalty from public servants, which is fealty, a feature of feudalism.
Trump calls for violence without due process against critics.
Trump attacks public servants charged with defending our nation (with no evidence) for years, while praising Putin, who ordered the attacks.
Trump obstructed the investigation into those attacks.
All of these things and more and High Crimes designed to weaken the Constitution so that We the People can be stripped of our Sovereignty and become Subjects under Trump.
MAKE AMERICA GROVEL AGAIN.
"Sit in attention" with "fervor" like North Koreans.
@Ms. Pea Agree completely. Senate will never convict, a waste of time and money. Best to present a strong Democratic campaign in 2020 and vote him out of office. That's enough of a challenge, it appears, for the Democrats.
Besides, never mud wrestle with a pig. You'll only get dirty and the pig likes it.
The real question is what will it take for Congressional Republicans to come out of the closet in their opposition to Trump. An interview on CBS this morning made clear that many reps. will not oppose Trump openly, but behind closed doors detest this man, but fear his cult like following. Considering how Trump treated them in his campaign it is most likely true.
The Nixon tapes tipped the scale for impeachment in 1973, but Trump tapes admitting his abuse of women made no difference to Trump fanatics. Democrats and Republicans opposed to Trump are acting from a sense of fear and self preservation, but he is not a dictator at least not yer and we must stand up to his blatant corruption with impeachment or lose any sense of the rule of law and morality itself.
4
@just Robert
Don't believe the liars when they whisper behind closed doors. Don't believe those with no credibility.
An impeachment Inquiry would give the House far more power to compel witnesses and evidence to investigate Trump's High Crimes.
An impeachment Inquiry would also force the media to concentrate on Trump's behavior in office and why so much of it is unconstitutional.
The media is essentially refusing to compare Trump's behavior directly to the Constitution, or ask Republicans to do so. They keep asking Democrats about impeachment, but don't really say why Trump would be impeached.
Parties are not in the Constitution. The Press is in the Constitution. The implicit deal is that the Constitution protects the Press and the Press identifies and draws public attention to attacks on the Constitution.
But the corporate press has been conditioned to accept corporate attacks on the Constitution, so Trump is manipulating that tendency.
Mueller detailed multiple acts of Obstruction of Justice by Trump. Obstruction of Justice is a crime all to itself because obstruction hides the evidence of the underlying crime.
Why isn't the media detailing each of these acts of Obstruction?
Why isn't the media interviewing each of the thousand former federal prosecutors that have signed a letter saying they would indict any non-president for these acts?
The Emoluments clause is not complicated. Trump is clearly taking payments from foreign governments. That is unconstitutional.
Donald Trump: "Illegal border crossings are declining, the tarifff's are stimulating investment in this country, you've had your taxes cut, and the economy is booming"
"Oh, and by the way, none of this was because of Democrats, who instead spent their time in a failed attempt to convict me of crimes."
Maybe Pelosi is being wise, Mr. Conway.
5
The crucial question that Mr. Conway failed to answer in this piece is just what outcome he expects from the impeachment he is advocating. Does he see some value in the House impeaching Trump followed by the Senate voting to keep Trump in office? Does he not believe that such a scenario could and would be successfully spun by the administration as indicative of Trump's innocence and proof that the Democrats were just engaging in dirty unfair politics? If Trumps various transgressions are not bundled up into one then he could be vulnerable on several issues.. But as things stand the Republican controlled Senate will not vote to remove Trump from office. Moreover the partisan divide is much more acute than it was in the 1970s. I seriously doubt there is anything that would bring enough Republican senators over to the side of voting for removal. A failed effort will be far worse than no effort and it could cement Trump to win the 2020 election. Even in the impossible scenario in which Trump is actually removed from office the U.S. must then contend with President Pence. That is a nightmare -- I'll take Trump any day over Pence!
3
@Jeff
Pence is a decent and honest man who is faithful to his one and only wife.
Simple; when they think it may work. Now, it won't. And the country is too tribal to expect anyone under the Republican banner to vote to impeach.
5
When I saw the picture accompanying this OpEd of the young lawyer, Hillary Clinton, I was again struck by the experience, knowledge, and skills that this country rejected in 2016 for the charlatan who now tweets in the White House. Why? Because one party finds it more efficacious to assassinate character than to propose actual government programs that benefit the majority of Americans; because one party places greater value on political power than on government functioning for the good of the country.
11
@Rue You do know that Ms. Clinton's employment with the committee terminated under dubious circumstances. While Clinton loyalists have disputed that she was fired for lying and general lack of ethics - others who were there claim otherwise. So much for "experience, knowledge, and skills "
1
And because too many people, mostly younger leftists, claimed to “see no difference” between Clinton and Trump.
1
@Rue: Remember that the so called "party" that you chastise is actually comprised of people who won their elections.
The author: "It will take unforeseen events, or a pro-impeachment surge in public opinion" for Democrats to unify in a commitment to impeach Trump.
Meanwhile, a Felon presides from the highest office of the land.
5
@Ken, we can unify right now, with ample reason. We can do so better without efforts to divide us, but there will be many. Like this one.
1
@Ken
Our President is a felon?
Really.?.I must have missed those trials and the prison time he served.
OHHH....that didn't happen!?
I always thought people accused of crimes in this country are innocent before being found guilty...
...apparently not if you're a Republican.
DB, be patient. The day Tyrant Trump loses the 2020 election, numerous indictments will be hurled his way. Stay tuned...
1
I appreciate the background information on the time leading up to Nixon's impeachment, as I was unaware of much of it. Some parallels to today are striking.
However, there are more differences than parallels, and they are striking also. Trump was put into office partly through the machinations of a hostile foreign power. He knew he was getting help, he welcomed it, and now he denies it. He didn't win by anything resembling Nixon's "landslide" - he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million people, which is a number larger than the population sixteen different states.
Once in office, Trump has made it clear that he doesn't understand the world and can't handle the job. He was laughed at out loud at the U.N. and is privately ridiculed by many of the ambassadors from other countries. He's made the world more dangerous and has weakened our standing in it. He has demonstrated fascist tendencies and has exacerbated a humanitarian crisis at the southern border.
He has put people into concentration camps and separated children from their parents. His policies have killed people seeking asylum here.
Mrs. Pelosi no longer seems "cautious" to me; she seems cowardly. She no longer seems "calculating, but spineless. Under her "leadership", the Democrats seem to stand for nothing.
7
@Vesuviano, perhaps she's more interested in actually removing him from office next year than giving him a drama he will "win" at when the impeachment fails. I'd think even disagreeing, you might see some reason there. I do. And repeating the word "coward" is not called for, however popular at the moment. Trump would thank you, though, knowing her for a dangerous adversary.
1
@jb
I don't favor impeachment proceedings against Trump, and never said I did. However, I do favor the start of an impeachment inquiry, which is a different matter altogether.
Right now, Trump is simply refusing to honor any subpoenas and document requests. They will have to go through the courts, which might not get them done before the election. An impeachment inquiry would lend tremendous legal weight to those subpoenas and document requests, as impeachment is specifically the prerogative of the House.
Your post didn't mention how what Pelosi is doing will help remove Trump from office. Can you clarify, please?
1
@Vesuviano, for one thing, she knows a divisive impeachment effort (already sundering only our party), with a senate "exoneration" just prior to the election will play into the "innocent, mistreated" martyr game Donnie plays. For one thing. It will cost money and time needed for the only real chance to remove him. She looks for the possible and doable, not willing to play games or make useless gestures. She has to. The party she leads has to defeat Trump for REAL in 2020. And yes. She wants to.
1
Isn't the more relevant question one dealing with what will it take for Republicans to realize that, in their unbending support for Trump, they are effectively becoming a party tolerant of racism, sexism and felonious sexual assault? I get it that these risks seem irrelevant to them now, but at some point these Senators' individual ethics and credibility will begin to be called into question as a result of the party-centric groupthink they are conveniently hiding behind.
Democrats would be well-advised to hold off on impeachment until there's at least a decent chance of Senate conviction. If they impeach and he stays in office, they won't get a second chance.
2
I have given this some thought, and I believe this is much bigger than Watergate. In my view this is more likely a soft overthrow of our government as we know it, and the window for us to stop it shuts a little everyday. Trump is closing all the windows (throwing out Sessions and hiring Barr, putting in SC judges that do his bidding, hiring inept people that wouldn't have jobs without him , and making all sign loyalty pledges) that would stop what he is doing, and at some point we won't be able to. At first I blamed the people who voted for him as they are the cause and Trump is the effect, however I'm starting to see the democrats we elected to stop this as being too weak to do anything, I guess I thought they would take the reigns and stop this. Just remember one day we won't be able to stop it and who will we blame?
6
Imagine a situation where prosecutors "know" that the accused is guilty but lack sufficient evidence to convict--should they bring the accused to trial in order to publicize his evil , or should they refrain because the accused not being convicted could proclaim how pure and innocent he really is. The Republicans in Congress are no better than a bribed jury and will not convict--so that is the quandary the Democrats now face.
1
If the Democrats have difficulty even uniting against Trump, what chance is there at all in convicting him by 2/3 vote in the Republican majority Senate? None. Best thing to do is impeach in the House next summer, submit the impeachment papers to the Senate just around the election and vote him out in the the November elections just to be sure. A truly horrific person is President. No one should ever vote Republican again for anyone on any elective level as punishment to that party for this man.
1
I guess that if people of power like Trump and Epstein and countless others break the law why should the average Joe play by the rules? I understand that 2 wrongs don't make a right. but these power mad greedy people used to do their dirty deeds in the dark. Now, they flaunt it in our faces knowing they will not pay the piper. How about the general public stop paying their fair share of taxes like they do? How about massive boycotts of anything related to our our criminally invested business leaders and politicians? If Congress won't do their jobs and uphold the law, why should we? Maybe Trump would admire us for breaking the law.
1
The one and only danger to the republicans and their power is for democrats and allies to unite--to UNITE and vote them out. Efforts to divide us or cause us to slur and hate each other serve Trump and will maintain him in power. Including this one.
1
For moral, legal, ethical & patriotic reasons, Trump should be impeached. But politically speaking, morality, the law & patriotism no longer count for beans in this country. We can yell at Republican voters and politicians until the cows come home but they will not budge out of their safe, right wing media-insulated bubble. I feel as much impotent rage as anyone else that the White House is occupied by such a sleazy, self-dealing demagogue. But the real problem is that we now have a country in which half the people prefer con-artists to leaders. They would rather blame their problems on the weakest & least powerful than use their democratic power to challenge the corrupt elites they vote for. That’s the problem we’re likely to still be facing, long after Mr Trump is safely behind bars.
1
If you wait, the opposing team could be Trump/Haley
I just do not see how Dems could win.
1
The Constitution ain't the power of the people anymore. The rule of law is up for grabs to the highest grabbers in the land.
1
Thank you for the trip down memory lane.
The problem is the Russia investigation unlike the Watergate Break-in drilled a dry hole. Trump did not conspire with the Russians to influence the election. It will be interesting to see what the DOJ digs up on The Steele Dossier and the shenanigans of the Democrats to impede the lawful operation of our government, through this Russian witch-hunt.
Pelosi and her crowd in the Dem Party are afraid that impeaching Trump will cost them an opportunity to win over undecideds in the 2020 election.
Things to ponder:
1. There is no evidence that that would happen. Impeaching may actually win patriotic undecideds over after the mountain of evidence of corruption comes out. Remember, there was relatively little support to impeach Nixon before proceedings started.
Plus, there are very few undecideds when it comes to Trump.
2. What happens should Pelosi opt not to impeach and the GOP wins the prez, the Senate and the House back?
3. What if a sizable chunk of the 60 percent of Dems who favor impeachment, disgusted by Pelosi's politics-over-duty ideal stay home? By trying to attract independents, she could fracture her own base. It happened in 2016.
4. Impeaching when evidence exists to impeach is not an option. It is constitutionally mandated.
My only fear on impeachment is that the bumbling, unprepared, cowardly Dems in Congress will be out-maneuvered and bullied by a GOP that is peopled by professionals when it comes to fighting dirty.
1
What will it take?
A suicide pact.
The effort would never pass the Senate, and every one who voted for this would be tainted and a target at reelection as the person who attacked a popular president.
Do it Democrats, prepare for a major backfire.
2
Politics is a “game” of Life & Death struggles based on winning or losing, regardless of the truth of the charges.
For most Democrats, Trump should have been impeached from the moment he stepped into office.
Republicans on the other hand loved the FACT that their party was now in control, regardless of what Donald Trump said or did for the most part.
Power is like an uncontrollable disease that infects everyone close to it.
Words like Truth, Beauty & Goodness are drowned out by To the Victor are the spoils.
This is why Donald Trump still enjoys a base of support of 45% of the American public. They refuse to desert him. Impeachment would only made them stronger!
The Solution?
2020!
1
Western Alliances are weakened, democracy debased and deligitimized by foreign a power, Putin's Russia. Trump is doing Putin's bidding abetted by the GOP Senate.
Trump and Mitch are actively destroying the fabric of democracy and all the good will that America once had...
Americans have no political imagination. They are stuck in an obsolete conception of politics that is filled with mysticism and kept void by philosophical ignorance .
And of course they have no tangible knowledge of the world outside or the world inside the USA .
Just a mystical individual dialogue with effigies .
And money.
1
What will it take? The answer is easy. Democrat Congressman Schiff needs to make public the information he has that he has said, many times, proves beyond a doubt that Trump was in collusion with the Russians.
3
Don't impeach! It's not worth the time spent and may not go as expected. Better to just keep investigating until even the most ardent Trump supporters begin to wonder if maybe their idol does have clay feet after all.
There is a huge difference between the case of Nixon and Trump. As described in Time magazine in 1971, "The Right Wing vs. Nixon, the core of the Republican Party hated Nixon and his liberal policies:
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,877188,00.html
Nixon's lefty policies - 10% across the board increase in Social Security, indexing of Social Security to inflation, EPA, OSHA, cuts in defense spending, increased taxes on capital gains and the rich, the alternative minimum tax (reform of 1969) the first minority hiring quota rules for federal contracts.... The GOP could have protected Nixon in the Senate, but they didn't, they were relieved to see him go.
This is the complete reverse today. Trump is doing everything the rich Republican donors desire, so there is zero chance the GOP will remove Trump. McConnell may even decline to hold an impeachment trial, calling impeachment a partisan sham, shirking Senate responsibilities implied in the Constitution, but not mandated as compulsory, as he did with the Garland nomination.
1
The current president makes Richard Nixon look almost virtuous. If Congress fails to impeach this president, given the overwhelming evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors (an entire administration full of criminals, grifters, loonies, incompetents and misfits) then impeachment is effectively no longer part of the Constitution.
The Senate cannot vote to convict or acquit unless Congress impeaches. Congress must act, without regard to politics. This is an issue of survival of the republic. Don't assume the Senate will refuse to convict.
1
It's clear Trump is incompetent and corrupt and should be impeached. But the Senate won't convict him, so the only question is, is it to Democrats advantage to impeach or not. Once it's started there's no going back.
Speaker Pelosi is right to be cautious. Beating Trump in 2020 will require an almost perfect campaign by the nominee. Anything that might hinder that effort should be avoided.
Are Democrats better off going all liberal-progressive-left wing-(democratic) socialist, or should they appeal to the middle? Tough question. Either way it's going to be a bumpy ride. Stay tuned.
To answer the headline...
The knowledge that the Republican Party wouldn’t just sabotage the proceedings.
As I sit here, I feel assured that impeachment would pass the house to die in the Mcconnell led Senate, only serving to make Trump even stronger going into 2020.
America is broken with shameful leadership at this time. I have zero faith in our government and how it works at this time, because of one man in particular, Mitch McConnell.
The Democrats will be wasting their time and political poser trying to impeach Trump. It would just confirm in the minds of the conservative christian voters that the Democrats are trying to destroy their America. Democrats should spend the time and money, making sure they have a candidate for president, the Senate and the House who will get elected this Fall.
1
Not enough evidence to indict any American for colluding with Russia after a two-year investigation by a Democrat-dominated prosecution team.... so what exactly did the President obstruct?
Nancy Pelosi knows that impeaching Trump will go nowhere in the Senate and probably assure him of re-election. The Democrats will probably lose control of the House.
1
The more Democrats go after Trump and his base, the more Democrats loose. It is best that Trump continues his incompetence and let the people decide what to do about Trump.
1
Start the process. A possible senate vote can be avoided until such time as the votes materialize. The process will let the sun shine in on a dark place that needs those rays of truth to begin the healing.
1
Again, people who have a knee jerk reaction to most things political want to impeach. The problem is multifaceted beginning with the Senate: They will never put Trump on Trial. If somehow Trump were to be impeached and then tried in the Senate, he most likely would not be convicted. Remember, the Republicans stick together. Say Trump is convicted. What then? President Pence! Oh, what a bargain he would be. But go back to the Congress: The leaders of the Democrats might as well try to herd cats. The Party is so fractured into little bits of clicks, screeching and braying at all kinds of things, no clear message can be heard. I think the Democrats in Congress need to focus on legislating -- in the interest of those who elected them -- and beating Trump fair and square in 2020.
Ultimately, there is little difference between those in power who actively work to sabotage and damage our democracy, and those in power who can wield their power to stop it but are too cowardly to do so.
This is a suicide wish. Pelosi is wise. She knows that the voters will punish Democrats harshly at the polls if she drags the country through impeachment instead of getting things done.
This can only be considered if the public support is there, and if Republicans are there. They are not and are not likely to be unless something truly dramatic is uncovered.
1
What would it take? they would first have to stop taking bribes by the same vile corporations and villains as the Reeps but as we have seen the old Dem guard still denies that huge cash bribes are "donations" which NO ONE in the this country has ever believed for a second yet all of these jackals not only accept bribes their real job is to ELICIT BRIBES FOR THE DUOPOLY and that's why we are going to fail.
Time favors the Democrats, not Trump. He wants impeachment now, so he can enter the 2020 race exonerated by the Senate, with his base fired up.
He doesn’t want the drip, drip, drip of further revelations during the campaign, which surely will accelerate once impeachment hearings begin. To that end, he has goaded the Democrats to impeach him.
There’s nothing in the Constitution that REQUIRES Congress to impeach—now, or ever. Those who argue that Congress has a "Constitutional responsibility" to impeach are wrong. There is no such thing. Whether to impeach is a political decision, and it has always been regarded as such. Congress is free to leave the judgment to the voters if it feels that is a less divisive and more certain means of redress.
And that is exactly what will happen if impeachment proceedings are delayed until next year, when the campaign is underway. The final verdict will be rendered by the voters—by then more fully engaged and informed. There’s no certainty they will "convict," but it is certain the Senate will not.
From Real Clear Politics, May 30, 2019: "Impeachment doesn’t just poll poorly; it polls poorly even though most Americans already believe Trump has committed crimes. In this month’s Quinnipiac poll, 57% say Trump committed crimes before he became president, and 46% say he has committed crimes while he was president. Yet a paltry 29% support the mere begin[ning of] the process to impeach President Donald Trump." http://tinyurl.com/y375et4b
1
A third term, maybe then. Yes, definitely maybe.
1
Dear Nancy, remember these words?
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
Do your job!
It is difficult to impeach a president for high crimes and misdemeanors without proof he committed high crimes or misdemeanors. Articles of impeachment have to list actual offenses.
1
@William Case
There's plenty of evidence of obstruction of justice. Trump does it in the open.
1
@William Case
If they had the case they would have made it and not punted to Congress. That should have been a red flag instead it's a red cape.
1
And the articles of impeachment will list actual offenses, i.e. abuses of power. That's what "high crimes and misdemeanors" are. These abuses are not necessarily crimes chargeable under criminal law, though some people confuse them with technical crimes.
It's not Pelosi it's the Republican controlled Senate and the Republicans of the 70s are not the zealots of today. It's also that fifth column Fox News and Trump's cult.
Denial of history and the role of the current Senate. Nestor M.
There is only one thing keeping impeachment from going forward in the House - the fact that the corrupt GOP Senate will NEVER convict. There is nothing Trump could do that would unlock his chokehold on the Senate - NOTHING. He could cancel the 2020 elections and the Senate will still not convict. If the House impeaches and the Senate refuses to convict, Trump will be legally innocent and totally free to do whatever he wants, and THAT'S what keeps the House from impeaching - the certainty that it would result in a legally innocent Trump.
This is not 1973. This is not the same GOP. This GOP is thoroughly corrupt and apparently so enamored of the idea that it can keep power forever that it sold its soul to the devil and will do whatever Trump wants. Fix that problem, and you'll have impeachment. Otherwise, keep your fingers crossed the voters, at least, do their job in 2020 and Trump can be removed bodily, if necessary.
Is defiance of a Supreme Court ruling a “block buster event”? Maybe we will soon find out with the citizenship question on the census form.
It's the age old problem with Democrats. They simply do not want a fight. They don't know how to fight when they have to. In order to really change the landscape of this country in ways not seen since Franklin Roosevelt, they would have to get down in the dirt and mud and fight as if their life depended on it. The problem is those fights don't take place in the middle of the road and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer live in the middle and refuse to move. You might be the smartest fighter and understand almost everything there is to know about the technique of battle but until you get punched in the face none of that matters. Pelosi, Schumer and the Democratic party have been getting punched in the face for decades and they keep thinking they will "nice" their way around the Republicans. The Republicans simply laugh in their faces and keep kicking them while Dems hold out hope that we will eventually work together across the isle! Someone please tell The supposedly "She's craftier than anyone" Nancy Pelosi she is blowing it and giving away the war when she has the troops that can win, waiting in the wings. Those 4 that only have a twitter following are on standby ready to go while you wait and try to talk your way to a win. Pelosi will win a battle or two...but you will never win the war.
Impeachment is more of an arcane show than a fact finding trial. The outcome should be assured and not left to fate. Pelosi knows that a failure to convict trump will only strengthen him. At this point the 2020 election is hopefully the longest the lawlessness of the president will continue. To roll the dice and hope all turns out well with impeachment- i.e. that he is actually removed, is foolish. He may trip over himself earlier, but why give him leverage of a failed impeachment going into the election?
What Will It Take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump? That's easy.
Get rid of neoliberal, Third Way, Center For American Progress, corporatist, centrist, moderate, plutocrat defending Democratic Party hacks in Congress like Nancy Pelosi.
The problem? In America's oh so corrupt, Citizens United world, the Democratic Party is positively littered with people of Pelosi's moral fiber. This is what such a corrupt system produces.
Given this reality, I'm not holding my breath on the Democratic Party uniting behind impeachment any time soon. The Democratic Establishment simply cannot rise above its basest instincts, no matter how much the times call out for it.
Good luck, America. You'll need it.
1
Nancy Pelosi needs to stop playing footsie with Trump, a far worse impeachable offender than Nixon.
Speaker Pelosi—it's way past time to do your Constitutional duty, rather than getting yourself further mired in political calculations.
What Will It Take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump?
Certainly NOT Pelosi! She, with her dictatorial 'I'm the queen' attitude, is one of the main reasons I'm now a registered independent!
1
Everyone knows that the spineless, R-controlled Senate will never remove Trump. Trump could commit virtually any offense and withstand impeachment. The process would be a costly spectacle that would allow Trump to repeat his deep state nonsense. It would enhance his martyr status within his core. It would be a counter productive waste of time and money. Democrats should spend their time, money and effort on uniting behind a candidate that can remove this man who will be represented in history as the greatest scourge on democracy- if democracy survives.
86
Democrats moral authority is zilch if they don't impeach Trump whose illegal acts are the textbook definition of what the founding fathers would have considered impeachable behavior!
By doing so, the public may get a better sense of Trump's misdeeds and even shift public opinion à la Nixon days.
It will also force Republicans, many of whom have proudly proclaimed not to have fully read Mueller's report, to show how little they uphold our constitution!!
111
@Concerned American Well said. Unless Speaker Pelosi gets on board and does her job or resigns so some competent person can replace her, impeachment of President Trump will be but a dream.
8
@Larry
All we'd need then would be for McConnell to resign too:)
5
@Concerned American
Many Americans don't believe democrats, in fact, have the "moral authority" to remove a president they've elected. Trump's critics tried to interfere with his campaign and have not stopped since. They have lost all claim to moral authority by denying his presidency since Day One.
If the impeachment provisions of the Constitution do not apply to
this president, they are an anachronism and their repeal should be considered or they should be ignored.
Consider rescinding the DOJ memo opposing indicting a sitting president, depoliticize the issue of what to do with a chief executive who about 1000 former federal prosecutors believe he would be convicted of multiple counts of obstruction of justice and other felonies.
Of course these strategies could never happen today with this AG or with this Congress, but if our republic survives #45, his treacherous coterie, and the McConnell’s of the world, our country will live to fight another day.
The solution for now is to deny him and his family a second term and then let them face the bar of justice.
59
@Regards, LC
Don't help Trump attack the Constitution by talking about repeal of the impeachment provision.
Demand that the serial committer of High Crimes (see my other posts) be impeached.
Wannabe dictators abuse emergency powers to cancel elections, and suspend Constitutions. There may be no election if Trump thinks he will lose.
If he does lose, he may blame it on Russia (there are no limits to his hypocrisy) and cancel the results.
We cannot afford criticisms of the Constitution. We must fight this threat head on.
1
The question isn't what will it take for the Democrats, it's what will it take for any number of Republicans to abandon Trump? If Republicans vote to impeach (and remove) for the sake of our country be sure that every Democrat will be on board.
3
No Impeachment please. let the people decide in 2020 Election. Let people decide. If the incumbent loses election, he is going to jail anyway. If he wins, it validates his legitimacy for next four years from 2020. Again in 2024 he can't run for presidency. We have 22nd Amendment. I wonder what will be written in his epitaph.
2
Excellent analysis and clear testament to Ms. Pelosi's leadership.
3
Speaker Pelosi and the Democrats do not have promising options. With Trump's base immovable and growing and the Senate firmly in McConnell's hands, impeachment is not an option. An impeachment inquiry will allow the Republicans to call it a partisan witch hunt and Trump to say he was exonerated when the Senate finds him "Not Guilty". The Speaker is counting on the 2020 election to protect her House majority and hopefully elect a Democrat to the White House. It is risky but her only serious option. She and the Democrats must be prepared, should they win the Presidency, for Trump's response which may very well be finding ways to prevent a Democrat from taking office and keeping himself in. His base and much of his party will line up behind him. It is very possible we are hurtling into uncharted waters
4
@Elliott Jacobson all true, except that Trump’s base is not growing:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Trump was most popular during the campaign and shortly thereafter settled down to 42%. Acknowledging that Democrats appear clueless, it’s difficult too see how a President as unpopular as Trump could be re-elected.
In 1974, Nixon's four-year term was only half=completed. Trump's term has only 18 months yet to run, and the election campaign of 2020 has already begun. It's too late to start impeachment proceedings, barring an event that could lead to an immediate vote in the House. And don't forget, the man who held up the nomination of a moderate Supreme Court justice for an entire year would not let an impeachment of a Republican sully the Senate chamber at any time.
The best course for the Democrats is Pelosi's course. We need to pour our outrage, our energies, our monies and our sacred honor into victories for Democrats at every level in 2020. Let's get to work!
8
@BAH To do nothing is to be complicit.
It's absolutely of most importance for Democrats to be united, but not at the expense of progressives, the fresh influx of these amazing group points to the future of the country, they serve as a inspiration for their constituents, which is really crucial in the next election.
Passion of the electorate is the key.
The internal war of Democratic Caucus doesn't help the situation, and Pelosi should not dismiss a public sentiment.
I would love to proceed with impeachment, but I also understand the risks of it in our extremely polarized stage.
Nevertheless, what scares me the most is reaching the point of atrophy in our sense of outrage and shock.
4
The answer is clear and simple. A failing economy is what is necessary. Without that, the public will not support impeachment in numbers that will give Dem leaders the courage to move forward. A group needs something to become a mob—in this case, only a failing economy will create that mob.
2
Answering the question posed...
Uh, a willingness to get their collective heads handed to them in the 2020 Presidential and Congressional elections?
2
It won’t happen as long as Pelosi is acting as the Democrats manager in behalf of Republicans. She sees her job as making sure Democrats don’t actually do anything
1
I don’t care about Nixon’s impeachment history, I care about the cowardice of present day Democrats. Not a single Democratic candidate has the courage or fortitude to demand impeachment. Not. One.
They are all platitudes and rhetoric with no back bone. Trump talks tough and has proven to be tough. Very tough. Economy is great, but he’s a criminal (and is engaged in ongoing reprehensible conduct domestically and internationally). But he has a spine. And he is the ONLY ONE with a spine in ALL of Congress. This is a fact.
Democrats actually speak highly of their embarrassing display of candidates for the Dem. nomination. Almost none of them other than Biden is centrist, which is what poll after poll shows is what America wants. But they still think New York and California think tanks will guide the Dems to victory. Let’s be clear: if the Democrats win the presidency in 2020, it will only be because Trump actually manages to destroy himself, NOT because of some public ally revered ‘hero’ of the left. Heroes have spines. Democrats don’t.
1
@Thomas You do know Trump is not a member of Congress, right?
On his show John Oliver did an excellent piece on impeachment. Impeachment does not guarantee anything unless both parties are on board. It's a "nice gesture" but it would probably wind up as meaningless as long as Mitch McConnell and his henchmen have control of the Senate. There is not one Republican senator with a spine that would vote to impeach. To get rid of Trump he needs to be voted out of office.
8
Q: What Will It Take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump?
A: When the Republicans unite behind impeaching Trump first. (This is just like the summer of 1974.) Only then do the Democrats get "backbone" because there are no political costs to impeach.
4
@VJR: And why would Democrats want to incur political costs if that benefits Trump and the Republicans?
As far as I can understand, there are a lot of lawmakers whom have skeletons in their closets and would not like to be the next in line.
This "going in circle" is fishy as it can get !
Why would anybody refrain from impeaching a lawmaker especially when it is the President is beyond any comprehension.
It will certainly boomeranged back to the Democrat party because the voters will desert them for not doing their jobs especially when the President has willfully engaged the USA into broad embarrassments in every way he could.
1
Where is the strategy of the Democratic leadership? I read the Times every day and it seems that Pelosi and most of the the Democratic candidates are doing nothing to attack the occupant of the White House. Maybe impeachment is a poor strategy since the Senate will never vote to remove from office but the impeachment hearings would uncover interesting info about emoluments, obstruction of justice, collusion with the Russians and passing classified information to them. Playing nice like this was the old days is not working - the Democrats will not win elections because they treat the GOP with kid gloves. What is the strategy here?
6
The answer to when to impeach has to be one of excellent timing so that if we pull this trigger, it will work. Read the comments here regarding Lord Acton and his words on power and corruption; they've been held up for a long time to put words to the behavior and actions of other tyrants like Trump. McMaster, Kelly, Mattis et al gone along with many scoundrels from Manafort to Pruitt, but Trump still there. I will wait w/Speaker Pelosi and urge the Squad to keep learning and reading history while focusing on budget priorities and policy points for the next chapter. Cool heads must prevail.
1
"I’m a loyal Democrat, but I couldn’t vote to impeach any president … It would be a sacrilege.”
Sacrilege? What is the point of having a mechanism in the Constitution itself to put a stop to Presidential tyranny, criminality and abuse if it's not going to be used.
Sacrilege? Sir, it was your DUTY to impeach Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon put himself above the law, and when he got caught he tried to cover it up, and then he lied about the cover up.
I don't think the United States can properly be described as a Republic anymore. If this is the attitude towards impeachment when it is justified, (as it definitely is with Trump) then we live in an autocracy and the President is accountable to no one. At least have the courage to call a spade a spade.
6
Trust is the basis of civilization.
Taking an oath is telling others that they can trust you.
Lying is telling others that they can't trust you and that you hold the essence of civilization in contempt.
Trump has lied more than 10,000 times and the Mueller Report has made it clear that Trump and his team aren't trustworthy.
The nation has the duty to uphold the value of trust with proof that we can trust Trump. To not impeach him is to admit that we can't be trusted with democracy. Isn't the only real way we can trust Trump, his sons, son-in-law, and cronies is to prove that he is trustworthy especially after all the falsehoods he and they have made? What else is there but for us to step up to the plate, as a democracy, and defend the value of trust?
3
We elect our leaders in government to represent the people. If President Trump committed a high crime or misdemeanor that is an impeachable offense, it is the responsibility of the House of Representatives to conduct impeachment proceedings for those crimes; it is the Senate's responsibility to conduct the actual impeachment trial. It is not up to the voters in the 2020 election to do their jobs for them.
6
Comparing today's situation to the Nixon impeachment history is almost irrelevant (other than a good reminder of history) since the political climate of today, and in particular the GOP political climate, is nothing like the mid 70's.
5
There's several things that should be mentioned.
• Democrats in the Nixon era did not have to deal with Fox News or Talk Radio spewing a constant stream of disinformation and attacks on the Democratic Party and its leaders.
• Democrats didn't have to deal with a news cycle obsessed with sound bites and tweets, or mainstream media that reflexively adopts right wing talking points and one-hand/other-hand coverage.
• The Democratic Party had yet to be blind-sided by Ronald Reagan and the beginning of the war on government - which is now a war on democracy. They hadn't yet started to reflexively play defense on every issue.
• There were still Republicans capable of doing 'the right thing' when given a reality they couldn't deny away. There were still GOP moderates, and agendas both parties could still agree on.
• And one more thing: Richard Nixon was not impeached. He was allowed to resign, walked away from his crimes (has everyone forgotten he sabotaged the Paris Peace Talks among other things?), and was allowed to retire to mere private disgrace. The country moved on - and all the wrong people learned all the wrong lessons.
So here we are - and it's not a good place. The Party of Lincoln is now prepared to give us a Civil War to hold on to power. They are openly rigging voting and packing the courts. They are colluding with foreign powers and totally the tool of oligarchs.
And then there's climate change...
Impeachment isn't big enough to address all of this.
117
excellent history, Mr Roth. You saved me a lot of writing. I would add that Nixon was also allowed to rehab himself from private disgrace at some level.
4
@Larry Roth Well argued. Democracy depends on an electorate that is 1) educated, 2) informed, 3) responsible. Leadership in a democracy requires a leader who is (same qualities). We are in deep yogurt.
9
@Larry Roth
Agreed on all points except the civil war part. There won't be one, dems will continue to whine but do absolutely nothing to challenge the tyranny. Pelosi and Schumer, Pelosi and Schumer, Pelosi and Schumer - say this enough times out loud and the outcome becomes obvious.
Intestinal fortitude and it is in doubt whether they have any. They know Trump will not go down without a fight and they are afraid of him. It is that simple.
Lord Acton once said, "I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption it is the other way against holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men,"
Sadly, this is often true. There was Nixon, Clinton and now Trump and no doubt others.
10
@SBanicki this is rather a political calculation than afraid. This is a not a un-democratic country, is it?
Mr. Conway, you ask "If the detailed evidence in the Mueller report about obstruction of justice did not sway Ms. Pelosi, what will?"
How do you know she is not persuaded? Has she ever completely ruled out the possibility of starting an impeachment proceeding? No, she has not. She is smart. She knows very well that a proceeding now would likely conclude before November of next year. That would allow for the inevitable acquittal in the Senate. She is not going to let that happen.
You, and all other naysayers, might consider the importance of timing here. A proceeding in The House that does not conclude before the election will elicit a media feeding frenzy. It will also make Mitch McConnell and his boot on the neck of the Senate irrelevant.
Ms. Polosi has not discarded the one ace she has. None of us should assume she won't play that hand when the time is right.
16
@East End
I don't understand why an impeachment inquiry couldn't be conducted ad infinitum, that is until Pelosi finds the right time to call the vote on Articles and send them to the Senate.
Assuming the case against the president doesn't get worse than it is and the Senate GOP remains steadfast in its support, then why not just keep the process open on the House side until right up to the November 2020 election.
And, there is still the option Professor Tribe suggested, and that is for the House to conduct its own impeachment inquiry, and vote to impeach based on the evidence they find, and then send it over to the Senate. This would be more of a show trial, but at least it would provide the public a deeper understanding of the state of emergency our country finds itself in relative to a disastrous presidency.
4
@Chuck
I don't think Tribe had the intention of sending
findings to the Senate.
1
Trump is the greatest leader in living memory. He proved to Republicans that he wanted the job so he could protect them.
He marshalled his millions of troops without coercion and together they won. Now they want to protect him.
Only one thing will prevent it from happening again. Self interest.
The Democrats should focus on convincing certain voters that they have passed Bills which would make their lives better. And show how their real enemies are making their lives worse.
Won’t be easy with Fox involved, won’t be possible with public disunity.
2
What will it take? Support from Republicans with backbone and the ability to experience enough shame to work for the interests of all Americans rather than their own. Seems they don't exist.
7
@Frank Pelaschuk, unifying the Democratic Party and voting can put an end to republican power. That's the only real danger to them now. And some people fan arguments and angers--for impeachment that all know will fail to remove him. But that argument is not really over whether a failed attempt would hurt him or help him. No. The argument is over whether democrats can be led to attack each other, insult each other, see decent people in the most contentious and even contemptible ways. It gave us Trump last time. Will it succeed again? That's really what the "impeach now!" dispute is about.
5
@jb Unifying the Democrats may work, short term but the reality is, impeachment with some reputable (if they exist) Republican support, will deny Trump supporters, particularly Trump, to falsely claim impeachment is simply a partisan effort by Democrats to settle scores. Trump is unfit for office. The evidence is there. There is nothing to dispute but there is a requirement: the integrity to face that fact.
I am going to trust Nancy Pelosi right now. These investigations must continue, subpoenas must be served, including on Trump and people held in Contempt of Congress when they do not show up. And given the Epstein affair and Acosta's role, there may be more evidence still concerning why Trump nominated him for the Cabinet position of Secretary of Labor.
I think when Mueller testifies, and if he is a man of integrity and patriotism, he will answer truthfully. I think his answers will be very revealing.
If the Republicans want to save their collective skins they would be starting the Impeachment process themselves.
But until the Committees currently holding hearings get to the point where there is actually rock solid evidence, Pelosi is right to hold back.
15
The entire Nixon - Trump impeachment narrative is false equivalency. With Nixon we were impeaching a president. With Trump we are dealing with a dictator. We are now in the era of corporate personhood and its' ownership of the Supreme Court and its' enslavement of Congress and the Senate. This is why we need to remove the money from politics to remove a system that has now effectively ended government that represents the people. This is the thing Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren understand. This is what is on the minds of many people. This is an entirely new situation for America - confronting its' first rise of a dictator.
61
The House should hold hearings on censure, and call it a day. Impeachment is a waste of everybody's time. Censure puts Trump on record as one of the few in US history to receive that rebuke. The senate will never concur, so stop with what can be done, and move on to campaign 2020.
10
Well-intended proponents in favor of impeaching Trump seem to believe that the entire process will be a "win-win" scenario without a major downside.
But just take a moment to think through what will most certainly occur once the House has voted and the focus moves to the Senate and Mitch McConnell. The Republicans in the Senate will control EVERY aspect of the so-called 'trial' and will do all that's necessary to turn the (possibly) televised farce into a weeks-long partisan infomercial for Trump's reelection. And best for Trump, at the very end he's pronounced totally innocent of all charges by the GOP majority... as pure as the driven snow.
Way to go, Democrats!
20
@Peter
There are some idealists like myself who believe that impeachment is decided by the facts, and not by political calculations. To not do so when it is so blatantly warranted makes Democrats look weak.
12
@Peter..Shying away from what needs to happen constitutionally with all the evidence. I presume this Senate trial will be another chance for Democrats to get the facts out, formally including in the media. It will be a battle and worth it. Let's have at it. Otherwise Republicans are going to make their case anyway.
8
@LFK--No, resisting calls for impeachment makes the Democrats look like realists, regardless of how richly Trump deserves to be tried and convicted, because we know it just won't happen that way. A House vote to impeach, followed by a joke of a trial in the Senate, complete with the usual hysterical commentary by the Limbaugh/Hannity propaganda machine can only hamper efforts to vote Trump out in 2020, along with as many of his Republican enablers as possible. This is what we need to do if we ever want to actually make any of our policies and ideals a reality.
3
Consider this. Republicans governors are bringing suit in a federal court to take down the ACA. It almost goes without saying that taking away healthcare coverage and protections for millions and millions of Americans is barbaric, outrageous and egregious. The republicans do it anyway to please their donors and their base. The Democrats however, still can’t find it in themselves to start an impeachment inquiry even when there is overwhelming evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors by the president.
Impeachment is going to fail in the Senate, but the Democrats in the House need to take a firm stand so that the rest of the country understands that Democrats stand for the rule of law. Right now the Democrats and Nancy Pelosi look like the same old ‘role over and play dead’ Democrats of the past. The people who elected the Democrats and gave them the majority in the House did so in large measure to check Trump. I don’t think that letting Trump run amock for another 1.5 years and then hoping you can remove him at the ballot box is a good strategy. I think that that is a much riskier strategy then moving on impeachment.
52
@Mark, do you not understand that impeaching him now will certainly not remove him? Surely people can understand that much of reality, if reality is still permitted on either side of the divide.
1
@jb
Appearances are everything. The only people who know that Trump may have obstructed justice are the people who read the Mueller report. Trump doesn't have to be removed in the senate. The Democrats need to be seen as the party of the rule of law. Right now they look weak and are going to weaken their chances in the election.
3
While there is little doubt this president is brushing up against and overstepping many legal and constitutional boundaries that makes him worthy of impeachment hearings, the fact remains that any talk of that must be tempered with the knowledge that it will never get past Mitch McConnell and the Republican Senate.
That's why the only sound way of removing Trump from office is to VOTE him out.
And hopefully Democrats will finally be able to unite behind that.
8
@N. Smith
So McConnell determines the proceedings of the House. He won't even put House passed legislation on the floor of th Senate so should House Dems just head back to their districts till the party finds a way to win the Senate?
@JL
I would help A LOT if Democrats could take over the Senate -- especially if Trump gets reelected.
But chances of that happening are almost zero.
If Trump is reelected and we have a Democratic Senate, we can remove him. But not if we do it now. This isn't rocket science.
9
Impeachment requires a super majority in the Senate. Not going to happen. Alas.
2
@Barbara8101, good point--all we can do is try for what is possible-- and the demand to do it now is not... I think if we could beat back the forces of division, we might have surprising power.
2
@Barbara8101
Impeachment requires of vote of the House, not the Senate. Removal from office is voted upon by the Senate. If our House impeaches Trump he will be only the 3rd President in our History to have faced this opprobrium. That is a fitting coda to his abuse of power and his criminal behavior.
The amount of naivete it takes to depend totally on a free and fair election in 2020 is beyond my ability to understand or support. And to make this election the basis for doing nothing to challenge either Trump's past behavior or his present actions make no sense to me. The Democrats have a House majority today because American voters wanted someone to make Trump accountable for his actions and of course to pass bills that deal with issues important to all of us. Mitch McConnell has taken the second option away. I hope the morning after the 2020 elections we are relieved because Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic leadership were right and we took back the White House, kept the House and reclaimed the Senate. I'm afraid we're going to be looking at a much grimmer picture. There is just too much at stake for the future of America to put all of our hopes on an election without taking other actions in the House that might well bolster the Democrats' position and give us a better shot at holding on to at least the power that we have now.
22
@Meg The corrupt democrats who take big donor money do not care if they lose. They still get huge payouts. They are in the political game for the money. Voters do not matter and need to be lied to around election time. This is the world of the corrupt and elite. It is all a show of outrage at Trump. He is one of their own, that is why Nancy brow beat her house to sign for bill that did not protect the kids and adults in cages and gave trump what he wanted. And then she turns on the members of the house who would not go along with her selling out to trump. Those Democrats were standing up for us and transparency and Democracy and those battered and tortured kids. Oh the shame of standing up for such things and not swallowing the bilge and ignoring their duty to the public. How dare they cross Nancy and be honorable. I can hardly stand it myself.
1
@Meg
If only what you say is true but just a 5 minute talk with a Trump supporter with disabuse you of this notion. Why? Because we have not shown a better alternative. Republicans are happy campers: gas prices are low, retirees’ portfolios keep growing, 401K’s are doing great, more people have jobs. These people do not want to upset the apple-cart so they will hold their collective noses & vote for Trump again. What have we, The Dems offered? Reparations, Baby Bonds, Free college, wipe out college debts, one payer health care where you will be forced to give up insurance you like, and a version of open borders with illegals able to vote locally. Utterly unbelievable, unaffordable pie-in-the-sk nonsense that WILL NOT FLY.
@Cab47 Please tell me, tell me what is to like about commercial insurance that costs twice as much as Medicare for all which offers better outcomes? And you never have to worry about losing your life savings or home. You have been snowed over by the propaganda paid for by, guess who, right wingers and insurance companies. Yeah we all need to pay lots more for less so those CEOs can make millions and those congress people can sell us out for huge bribes. Nurses and Doctors want it so they can actually serve the patient and not have to do all that paper work and cram as many patients in as possible and on their own time, unpaid take care of their patients , to be true to their oath. Why not let doctors decide which treatment you need and not perhaps die because the insurance companies decide they will not pay for it. I don't know , does not seem so great to have rigged insurance companies in care of my health where the bottom line is to charge as much as possible and pay out the least amount they can get away with, who cares if you die or reach your cap and die.
1
I think Nancy Pelosi realizes her first priority is to get her House in order. Democratic candidates also need to mature and demonstrate their ability to lead a very diverse country. We are not there yet. All the failed policies that the Republicans have taken thus far are beginning to show damages, disheartening many people who voted for T. Even Fox News is beginning to question what’s going on. Right now, Democrats, take care of the job at hand, focus on how to better serve all our citizens in a Positive Way and show unity of purpose.
4
Trump is adding the citizenship question on the census form even though he was ruled against. This is an imperial presidency and he must be brought down. I do not like Pence who insists there is no separation of church and state and that this is a Christian country. This country is going down the tube with this presidency. We have to do something to stop him. He is not above the law although he thinks he is.
19
@Sharon Conway, a failed effort at removing him will not strengthen his opponents but take energy, money, and time we need to use to actually remove him at our earliest opportunity. Wishing won't do it. Unity in our party, and in our votes, can do it. Work for that.
2
In the meantime he is destroying this country. I am 71 and lived through the Nixon years. This is so much worse. And the Republicans are marching in lock step. If Clinton could be brought down for consensual sex Trump should certainly be brought down because he defies the Constitution.
@Sharon Conway, yes, and our chance is coming. But not through impeachment. The Senate will not convict. We must unite--and work now with all our might to do so--and vote him out. I want that as much as you do, and I am sure Pelosi does too. So let's work at that.
2
Pelosi's game plan is simple enough. Stall any actions leading to an impeachment inquiry until time runs out and the next election is well underway. She is betting on a Democratic victory in 2020 as the slow drip of court decisions in New York and other federal jurisdictions weaken Trump and he succumbs to the death of a thousand cuts.
But Trump is not Nixon and today's USA is not the USA of 1974. Not only are the two members of the corporate duopoly at each other's throats, but the Democrats are also waging internecine war pitting their own corporatists against a growing rebellion of women, younger voters, and a virtual rainbow of minorities.
If her plan, and the plans of other party moderates and corporatists, hinge on the nomination of Joe Biden as the Democratic standard-bearer, and if they succeed in pushing the male analog of Hillary Clinton to the fore, Trump's re-election is guaranteed. In that event, Pelosi will need to explain why her plan failed when defeat was so easily imagined.
We are in a constitutional crisis, like it or not. It is time to begin the impeachment process. Our institutions cannot be abandoned to the whims of a Donald Trump with no battles fought to protect our nation.
33
@Rick Spanier
Thanks for corporate duopoly. Like HRC, Biden is a founding beneficiary of it.
Run him as the "alternative" to Trump and younger people who reject Turning Point USA and the regressive hyper-capitalist/white supremecist/misogynistic cant of the "conservatism" it exemplifies will turn away from politics with withering disgust and invest their energies elsewhere to address the issue that they rightly see as singularly urgent, climate change. So will women.
Were the climate crisis addressed, many long-time progressive causes would be also-- economic and environmental injustice, for example-- and so would others that are less obviously linked to the corporate and political agendas that have accelerated climate crisis- like the carceral crisis Biden and the Clintons generated to appease the pro-corporate right.
If the American political system-- the corporate duopoly-- continues to thwart the will of the electorate by choosing to run candidates unfit for leadership (either by temperament and character or by their failure to recognize the priorities set by reality itself), people aware of the risks and inevitabilities of climate change will shift their allegiance from the US to the planet and the species and look to supranational instruments to address the climate crisis: the UN, evolving communities of interest that transcend borders and nationalism, local activist groups that work against the duopoloy's interests to serve the people's.
Run Biden, Trump wins.
1
Something like the humanitarian crisis at the border and obstruction of the science of climate change is not enough. It has to be some burglary or similar offense between politicians.
3
I still think Speaker Pelosi should go forward with an inquiry for impeachment in the House, which would not necessarily include Mc Connell's corrupt GOP senate from vetoing anything. As Lawrence Tribe and so many other legal experts have shown, this would put all of #45's obstruction of justice as well as other crimes on public display, helping to sway citizens to approve full impeachment proceedings. The long game of thinking voters will kick #45 out in 2020 is foiled by the massive gerrymandering done by the GOP and the lock it has on the electoral college.
So the respectful question remains: WHAT-- IS-- SHE-- THINKING?"
Very helpful article here though, thank you.
14
@MickNamVet--But, even with Trump's crimes on full display, he will just claim it's all a plot against him, the charges are all fake and that the Democrats are persecuting him. He does that now with his charges of "presidential harassment." Trump's fans will not be swayed. They live in a world of conspiracy theories fueled by Trump himself. The only facts they accept are the ones he tells them. There's little reason to believe impeachment hearings will change that.
6
@MickNamVet She is thinking she too is above the law, or at least her job description. Everything you say is correct. She does not want to do it, and nothing will make her do it. She has said she gets more donations when he is in office. She lied to the public saying since the senate will not impeach him he will be declared innocent and then never have to go to trial when he is no longer president. Which is totally wrong. And now she is turning on the Democrats in congress who know it is their duty to impeach him. Nice. She really thinks she has no duty to the public or the constitution. Her big selfish donors which the NYT will never talk about as they are heaping praise on this brave (not)little lady, and never admit that those big donors give only with big strings, chains, attached. And Nancy who brags she brings in the most money has to do what THEY want. This spineless and deceitful lady is not who she tries to fool people into thinking she is. Here is to the Democrats who are trying to do the right thing!
1
To all the MAGA guys and anti-impeachment commenters:
Of course, Republicans will never vote on impeachment because they are as corrupt as Trump. But, by going through the process, you will find new evidence, display on TV the corruption of Trump and his administration, and demonstrate how he has violated the Constitution. Then, when Senate Republicans vote against impeachment, you run campaign ads against the senators and representatives running for re-election stating that they favor corruption over law.
IMHO, not only will that be a winning strategy in 2020, but you will paint the GOP as the party of corruption and wannabe dictators for a generation or more.
Not that hard.
56
Handing democracy to Americans is like tossing pearls to swine. We are why we can’t have nice things.
In a week, Bob Mueller will testify publicly, and what he says will not change anyone’s opinion. What he uncovered certainly should have raised some red flags, though.
Maybe an impeachment inquiry would be a costly political toll for the Democratic Party, but maybe the fact that political leadership doesn’t seem to care about the rule of law is all the re-election consideration that need ever be provided.
4
The President's "high crimes and misdemeanors" are well laid out in the Mueller Report. They alone should have started the impeachment proceeding if our elected officials really cared about the rule of law and if they truly believed that we are a nation of laws. Fox propaganda and social media have changed the whole game since Watergate. And, we not only have a President who care nothing for our nation's laws, we have an attorney general who doesn't care much for them either. Speaker Pelosi in wrong in her stance. We the People deserve to have all of the information regarding coordination with the Russians and obstruction of justice by this President. His many actions and comments since his election show that he has a compromised connection to Putin and a distain for our Constitution. I lived through Watergate, but this is so much worse. Our democracy is at stake.
13
@kmgh
I agree with kmgh of Newburyport. For one thing, the people of his locale in the 1770s recognized the need for action in Boston Harbor, Lexington and Concord Bridge, and pulled reluctant colonies into the spirit of resistance and active revolution.
Now we dither over Impeachment as a remedy for current injustices. I am sick at heart over treatment of the Constitution as a scrap of paper.
The British ambassador was truthful, even as Tories in London are flirting with a Trump wannabee. US credit- so-called wealth along with reputation - is trashed regardless of the stock exchange.
The vaunted rule of law is naked in plain sight with revelations about Acosta and Epstein, as well as flagrant abuse of migrant children on the southern border. I lived through Watergate, too, and the flimsy excuse for Impeachment the Republicans cooked up against Clinton. I'd like to see it done for just cause in the House and brand McConnell and his cohorts in the Senate for dereliction of duty. Then face the voters in 2020.
1
I think it's important to hold this man responsible and send a message that being President of the United States does not mean you are king. You serve at the pleasure of the American People not yourself.
I understand Ms Pelosi's long game but I fear for the message it sends not only to government officials but average people.
I'd like to see Donald Trump in prison as well but we may not have that luxury.
15
I can’t let this pass without commenting on the caption written for the picture in this editorial. That’s the great John Doar standing next to Hillary Clinton. Mr. Doar almost single-handedly worked on putting together a case to impeach Richard Nixon. He, like Robert Mueller rarely spoke to the press. He followed only the facts and had no political agenda. The current partisan banter would have had no affect on Mr Doar. A great American.
5
Another week until we hear from a reluctant Mueller. Subpoenas issued but not litigated or enforced. Sternly worded letters. Requests for apologies (Schumer's specialty.) More nonsense like "Our voters don't care about Trump, they care about health care and gun safety and that's what we're doing in the House." (This leaves aside the fact that most voters understand that a bill that can't pass the Senate and be signed by the President never becomes a law.) So I guess Pelosi's plan is we dawdle along until November of 2020, hoping that we will actually HAVE an election and Trump doesn't start a war before then. Unlike the Republicans with Nixon, there is NO Democratic Party leadership at this point. The question is WHY?
8
US politics is only a fundraising scam achieving nothing and going nowhere.
As with Nixon, the push for impeachment will require not just a big bunch of minor infractions, but a smoking gun. That is not yet in the public domain. As such, the strategy used by the Watergate prosecution teams is the correct strategy. Slowly continued to build a case and wait for the evidence that will change the mind of Republican senators as Barry Goldwater was in that era. It must be proven that Trump has already sown the seeds of his own destruction.
How else will you get 20 of 53 Republican senators to vote to impeach? If you shoot at a grizzly, do not miss.
1
Impeachment is a pipe dream at the present time and the Democrats should thank Pelosi for not proceeding with the process. Public opinion had turned on Nixon, something unmentioned in the article. Therefore, impeachment was less a hazard. Trump's public opinion, albeit low, has remained rather fixed. The only thirst for impeachment comes from liberals pandering to their base. Impeachment would benefit only Trump. Why elect a Speaker and then refuse to support her? Perhaps the Squad needs to start a new party of 4 members.
4
In my view, the only possible path to creating a "pro-impeachment surge" is to emphasize Trump's threat to national security; and in turn this would require proof that he has more direct financial ties to foreign countries such as Russia and Saudi Arabia.
Regardless of whether any of the other remaining Emoluments Clause lawsuits make any headway, the House has to continue to demand Trump's tax returns and related financial documents from his banks.
The issue of Trump's blatant conflicts of interest -- in clear violation of the Constitution's Emoluments Clause -- is in essence the foundational question that underlies all that is wrong and and dangerous about this Administration.
Unless Congress can provide the American people with an answer to these questions, history will judge it as harshly as Trump himself.
4
I get what Pelosi is doing. I also get that she's making the Democrats look really weak and that she's risking the possibility of squandering the support of hundreds of thousands of Americans who poured their hearts and money and votes into Democratic candidates in 2018, with the hope of holding Trump accountable.
14
@Amelia
To right! Up until this issue Ms. Pelosi had my utter respect and backing, with this failure of moral will and her abandonment of her supporters’ beliefs, she has lost my respect and backing and I am not alone on this. The Trump administration is a corrupt, morally bankrupt gang of grifters, allowing them work unimpeded and unchallenged is an abdication of Pelosi’s power and responsibility. I say, “ Start an impeachment investigation now.”
We all know the Senate will not vote to convict. But I don't agree that an acquittal in the Senate exonerates Trump any more or less than Mueller report already did. This fear among Dems of a Senate acquittal seems misplaced. Trump's supporters already agree he's exonerated and Trump's opponents already agree he's guilty. I'm skeptical that opinions of the small number of fence-sitting Americans will be definitely affected one way or another by a Senate acquittal.
In my opinion, the value of impeachment hearings is that they allow the Dems to publicly investigate and expose the full extent of Trump's misdeeds. I don't think the scope should be narrow--I think it should very broad, looking at every possible abuse of Presidential power, including things like misusing the pardon power.
Once the hearings have exposed the extent of Trump's misdeeds, then force the Senate to vote. If Trump looks bad, GOP Senators will be forced into the bad choice of angering Trump's supporters or looking like they are protecting a criminal. This could easily play into the Dems' favor in the highly important Senate races. Force GOP Senators to make a choice they can't win with.
The only reason this strategy wouldn't work, I think, is if Trump's crimes really aren't that bad. In fact by not impeaching, that's the exact message the Dems are sending: Trump isn't bad enough to impeach so all the Dems' complaints are just partisan mudslinging. By not impeaching, the Dems are exonerating Trump.
7
@617to416
Impeachment hearings don't necessarily allow the House to publicly investigate Trump's actions. The Peter Rodino-led impeachment hearings in the House were NOT televised or open to the public until the last week of hearings. The investigations that the House is initiating now WILL most likely be televised.
2
@617to416 Excellent summary of the situation.
1
@617to416: Nancy Pelosi is out of touch, out of date, and running out of time to show she understands the consequences of not honoring her oath (and shes a lawyer yet!) to serve "we the people" first - party second.
IMPEACH
1
Americans don't seem to realize in their political freeze that they create an international problem of much bigger amplitude and consequences than the interior little debate between their figures of effigy : democrat/ republican , congress/ senate .
There are ecological and geopolitical problems much more serious than these childish games of statures .
If the USA stay stuck in a position of stalling, almost certainly ultra conservative forces will seize the opportunity to create a war in the midst of political void.
And the consequences for the rest of the world could be dramatic.
4
For starters, it would take a Senate willing to convict. In all the three impeachment processes, both Houses of Congress was in the hands of a party opposed to that of the President. (Yes, Andrew Johnson was a Tennessee Democrat.)
Impeach Trump and the Senate will find him NOT GUILTY, adding to the spin that he is "innocent." and impeachment was just a political game, a distraction imposed by his enemies. Of course, his enemies will be portrayed as enemies of America, diverting him form the business of state (or from the state of his business).
Four more years and many more tears. Just great.
3
Then, as now, overturning a presidential election seemed too grave and risky a step to be undertaken by Congress. The President now acts with impunity; he will neither be impeached nor indicted by his own Justice department, and the crimes, offences, and ethical violations just keep mounting. Peversely, this ability to thumb his nose at everyone is what elevates him to god-like status among his supporters.
It seems past time to rectify this situation by amending the Constitution to give voters the power to call a special election at any time, a vote of no confidence that results in the President's immediate removal.
4
@M.
hilarious comment, constitutional amendment so lunatics can throw a hissy fit
Although it is obvious that Trump has tried to obstruct justice, it is too "squishy" of a charge to fire people up.
The one thing that is a solid charge that nobody pushes hard is the fact that Russia did in fact attack the United States.
Their attack on our election was no different than if they had dropped a bomb on a US City.
The fact that the Commander-In-Chief denies the attack and then follows in without doing anything about it, is in direct opposition to every intelligence agency conclusion in the country, is Dereliction of Duty.
Failure to take robust steps to acknowledge and act punish or stop any future such attack is Dereliction of Duty which is a High Crime.
He should be Impeached for failure as Commander-In-Chief.
He should be impeached on that one sole count.
18
Mr. Conway provides an interesting historical perspective on the current situation in the House regarding impeachment. But given his personal experience in government, it's surprising that he doesn't understand that when "Democrat" (as in the US political party) is used as an adjective, it is to be spelled "Democratic." (It's in the dictionary!). When he writes, "Liberal Democrat House members in 1973-74 pressed for an impeachment inquiry of President Nixon, but they met resistance from Democrat leadership," he is using "Democrat" the way partisan Republicans do, to deliberately irritate their colleagues across the aisle. Democrats reading that sentence are likely to discount everything Mr. Conway has to say as the analysis of a partisan hack. Surely Mr. Conway would wish otherwise.
3
Impeachment is a waste of time. Spend the time accomplishing the many far more important things on the Congressional "to-do list" and impeach him by winning in 2020.
6
Forget about impeaching him. Too much effort best directed elsewhere - like proposing legislation that can be passed when he, along with the senate, is voted out.
Vote him out and then never mention his name again.
5
Even if impeached, Donald Trump will turn it into victory. You folks just don’t grasp his brilliance at winning a following and defeating his foes.
3
@Dave Smith, yes, he needs enemies to fire up his fans. All the better if it's a big attempt that already cannot succeed. His handlers may well be pushing the impeachment plan themselves--they're bold and clever. And a number of frustrated democrats not so clever.
1
Conduct committee oversight. Conduct those interviews. The facts are there but we need to wait until the republicans realize their party is dead with this criminal as its ruler. It will come and Pelosi, bless her, is right. The time is not now but (hopefully) soon will be.
2
First, a correction: "Liberal Democrat House members" should read Liberal Democratic House members, and "Democrat leadership" should be Democratic leadership. Senator McCarthy pioneered the use of the word Democrat instead of Democratic and urged Republicans to emphasize the last syllable: DemocRAT.
And the reason we need an impeachment inquiry now is that trump, with the help of his attorney William Barr and Fox "News", has succeeded in convincing many voters that the Mueller report exonerated him. An impeachment inquiry would likely be televised so that more people would be made aware of the facts. Impeachment in the House and conviction in the Senate are not necessary to achieve this purpose. In fact, I would love to see the House impeach, and then watch the Senate fail to convict.
13
@Marilyn Burbank, you know the song "If you don't know me by now"? It's kind of like that. I doubt one vote would change. There are better uses for the time and money with an election that could actually remove Trump AND the republican senate.
1
@Marilyn Burbank If there is to be a televised inquiry, it should be on the conspiracy to frame a Presidential Candidate as a stooge of Russia by the opposing political party...and the corruption of the intelligence community leadership to overthrow the duly and legally elected President of the United States.
Public executions of those found guilty would make everyone painfully aware of how we let political power of Democrats become so corrosive that nobody ever thought they'd be caught and exposed for the coup they were leading right in plain sight.
Makes me a bigger fan of Trump everyday.
Of course..it would help if you'd explain what you think he should be impeached for.
There was zero coordination, collusion or cooperation with Russia (at least not on the part of Trump; Clinton and the DNC is another story).
There could be no obstruction because Trump and his team cooperated 100% with the Special Counsel..not even asserting Exec Privilege once.
The public rants you saw daily in the NYT were a political theater that Trump's attorneys clearly communicated to Mueller and his team as a necessary defense against the political theater and coup being staged against him.
So again...I ask...what are you going to impeach him for?
@Marilyn Burbank They're Democrats.
If you are a House Democrat you belong to the House Democrats, because you are a House Democrat.
If you're a Democrat in the Senate, you belong to the Senate Democrats because you are a Senate Democrat.
Hence, you belong to the Democrat Party.
Singularly, you are a Democrat, not a Democratic.
Plurally, you are Democrats..not Democratics.
I get it..it's confusing.
Almost like being a Democrat.
Go Ahead start impeaching procedures and make Trump’s day. He will be reelected but a little bit of impeachment drama is welcome to strengthen the resolve of his tens of million supporters.
10
I remember very clearly the Nixon years as I was in the Navy at that time. Nixon wasn't liked by many and he had his enemies list and battles with the press, but it was nothing like Trump's presidency. Even though I was no Nixon fan he was an intelligent man and a competent politician. Trump is incompetent on too many levels to mention, but that is not the real problem. Trump is basically corrupt in nature and does nothing that won't personally benefit him. Even if his actions are contrary to the benefit of this country.
There are many more reasons to impeach him and that for Speaker Pelosi to wait any longer will seriously damage her credibility along with harming the Democrats chances of winning the White House.
The internal squabbling within the Democratic House must stop and the focus should be on impeaching Trump and putting forward a unified party for the 2020 election.
273
@VMG
If you wait, the opposing team could be Trump/Haley
I just do not see how Dems could win.
Nancy and Paul Pelosi
are part of the 1% that have prospered greatly during Trump's reign. AOC had trouble finding an apartment she could afford when she got to D.C. They live in different worlds, financial and personal. AOC sees average people as neighbors the Pelosi's see them as income.
Paul Pelosi Sr. is businessman who owns and operates Financial Leasing Services, Inc., a San Francisco-based real estate and venture capital investment and consulting firm.
27
@s.whether Such a perfect analysis. I adore you!
9
@VMG
So, what's the endgame? I keep hearing all these cries for impeachment in the House, but then what?
Everyone knows Trump will NOT be found guilty in the Senate. On the contrary, Republicans will use constant, patriotic speechifying to heap praise on the president, cast the Democrats as scurrilous villains, and arouse his base even further. Senate Dems will be marginalized by Mitch's rules.
The trial in the Senate will take all the oxygen out of the room, and so we start an election year with massive pro-Trump publicity.
How does that work IN ANY WAY to get a Democrat elected president, and Democrats down the ticket elected to anything?
25
I am troubled by so many people who fault Pelosi because she is not moving towards impeachment. But if impeachment proceedings are begun now (as they and Trump hope), the Judiciary Committee will vote to recommend impeachment by a party vote. It will then go to the full House, which will also vote for impeachment, again by a party vote. Finally, it will go to the Senate for a trial, which will NOT convict Trump (again by a party vote). Trump and his followers will then argue that failure of the Senate to convict proves he is innocent of all charges and Trump will likely go on to win re-election. Is that what they want? But there is good strategy in delaying the start of impeachment proceedings. At the appropriate time the Judiciary Committee could use its subpoena power to compel witnesses to testify about Trump's crimes. Presently, this is impossible because Trump's Attorney-General claims that the Judiciary Committee does not have subpoena power because an investigation with subpoena power can be done only for legislative purposes, which he claims does not exist (and the Supreme Court will back him up). But the start of impeachment proceedings not only allows but requires the Judiciary Committee to have this power. These hearings can be delayed to the point that a House recommendation for impeachment NEVER reaches the Senate for a trial. Pelosi is the smartest politician in Washington. Please respect her judgement. It relates to the future of our democracy.
24
@JerryV "Trump and his followers will then argue that failure of the Senate to convict proves he is innocent of all charges . . ."
And, if Pelosi fails to allow an Impeachment investigation, Trump and his followers will argue that she didn't do it because he is innocent of all charges.
The Republicans have proven over and over and over again that they are not worthy of the positions of power they hold in our government. Why would we let them make this decision for us? The man has violated the law and our customs, norms and values. He embarrasses us every day and does untold damage to both our nation and individuals within it. He presides over the most corrupt administration in our history and he has no idea how to do his job. He should not be in the White House and only the Democratic House of Representatives can begin the work of getting him out. If the Republicans let him stay after articles of impeachment are voted, every last of them should be removed from office in 2020.
@JerryV right-on, man, smart comment, thanks!
2
@Alice Olson, You missed what I wrote. I did not suggest, as you imply, that Pelosi will not permit an impeachment investigation. She will, but timing is important. First, it must be timed so that it will not go to the Senate for exoneration of Trump. BUT, it must be initiated at an appropriate time that would allow the House Judiciary Committee to get the right of subpoena power to confront witnesses. At the present time it does not have that power according to Trump's Attorney General and Trump's Supreme Court, that will gladly back up Trump's Attorney General. And if people follow your advice and somehow the House and Senate manage to charge and convict Trump, Pence will be better? He would fill out Trump's term and very possibly be elected President for an additional 8 years.
2
Ms. Pelosi has no intention of letting that process begin. It will take unforeseen events, or a pro-impeachment surge in public opinion, to change the current dynamic.
You don't say. Stop the presses.
4
The structure of the US political system is obsolete . The exclusively binary situation of two parties create a mirror effect that sends any debate or any political action back to the identity of each party which is to exist exclusively against the other party.
There is almost no diversity of political analysis that could illuminate the forces of argument like we have in European democracies .
The binary system makes the political narrative monolithic and metonymical.
"the House is wasting an opportunity to open an impeachment inquiry against President Trump"
That would be true if either of two things:
1) They could reasonably expect to remove him from office; or
2) Voters now undecided or supporting him would instead support Democrats for making that effort. Those already Democrats and loving it are already won over, and don't affect this analysis.
There is no hope of removing Trump from office. That's fantasy.
Voters' reactions to a failed effort, at the cost of doing nothing else for two years but failing at this, might very well be bad for Democrats. At the very least, there would again be the problem of voters staying home or voting third party.
All of that changes if the hope of removal becomes realistic. How could that happen?
What has already happened has not been enough. Maybe it should be, but it hasn't been. So what else, entirely new, could happen?
A really nasty war and loss of it would do it. That could happen with Iran, or with China, or with Korea, or in fact with all three in a bandwagon effect. If Iran runs off the Gulf monarchs, China takes Taiwan, and North Korea hits Japan so hard it goes nuclear in response, the President is toast.
If he loses New Orleans again, like Dubya did, or loses the economy in another near-Depression like Dubya did, then no Republican could win, and they'd turn on him and tear him to pieces for it.
Those tragedies are actually possible, but nothing I'd wish for.
9
In the end Vietnam took Nixon down. When we found out that rather than a secret solution to the war, he increased the war he was violently unpopular with a large swath of Americans. Add to this the break in, secret cash, etc gave the final impedance to impeachment.
4
For me, the last sentence of Mr. Conway's analysis is key: "It will take unforeseen events, or a pro-impeachment surge in public opinion to change the current dynamic." I'm sure Nancy Pelosi, in so many words, is thinking, what's the point of winning the battle if you lose the war.
5
@Jack, and being demonized for it. The tendency in many democrats now to demonize other democrats who merely disagree, to impugn decency and ascribe low motives, is the single greatest threat to the nation today, in my view.
1
Perhaps all that Pelosi requires is a clear case of a direct constitutional violation ... say the Constitution's requirement that the census count all residents.
Trump continues to say that he will find a way to get around that. Pelosi should be saying that he needs a constitutional amendment to do that.
There is no dispute that Trump is required to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution". And there is little doubt that he intends to violate the Constitution.
7
In my humble opinion, there are three things that are different from Watergate and now. First, there was not a Fox propaganda network during Watergate. Second, the country is far more polarized today. And third, There were several honorable Republican Senators during Watergate, I can't think of a one today. If The Trump administration, primarily Trump and Barr continue to refuse to abide by the constitutional separation of powers, then impeachment is the only course of action left. Even then, it's not clear if they would comply with lawfully executed subpoenas.
35
I covered the investigation of Nixon leading up to the passage of the resolutions for a deep south radio station in Atlanta whose management was not sympathetic to impeachment. However, they were devoted to the U.S. Constitution and the hallowed principles of equal application of the law to everyone, including a U.S. president. We discussed the legal process, precedent and even pitfalls. It was never confrontational and performed a public service of educating listeners.
Amid today's tumult, tweets and shouting, some enlightening programming about impeachment on news outlets would help.
8
Nixon was relatively clean next to what we see every day from Trump. It is high time to impeach.
16
Michael Conway, your brilliant piece on "what will it take for Democrats to unite behind impeaching President Trump?" is speaking truth to power. Sooner or later, The power of the Democratic Congress (and House Judiciary Committee) will be brought to bear on president Trump's nefarious presidency. Time is of the essence, and so is Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's unwillingness to bring articles of impeachment now and in the coming election year.
So, do the American people now have to wait for a Nixonian October "Saturday Night Massacre" to replay in the Trump administration? Will impeachment proceedings and hearings happen after Trump wins election 2020? Not likely. It's now or never.
Unforeseen and terrible events in the coming few months will decide for the Democrats, including Speaker Pelosi, whether to release the tsunami of impeachment investigations at an inconvenient time for our country.
The Civil War divided America, and those divisions -- inflamed now by our 45th president -- last to this day between the Northern and Southern states. Can we be more divided now than we were in the early 19th Century? Our past is prologue to the present and future.
3
@Nan Socolow, it isn't now or never. United, we can remove Trump and the republican senate next year. Those who tell you we must despair or do desperate things are mistaken. What we must do is unite and vote. We can do this, but we must not be turned against each other now. Our adversaries are keen on setting up division every single day. Don't fall for it.
1
The answer as of this moment in time is a resounding 'Nothhing". Speaker Pelosi is not as far as I can tell in the business of committing political suicide .
When there is enough evidence to impeach him, and a Republican majority in the Senate that will follow through on doing so, and a populace that is generally supportive of the idea, then it will be time to impeach.
Now censuring him that is another equation and one that may make most people happy or at least comfortable, he clearly obstructed justice, and this will be verified by prosecutor Mueller next week.
7
Why are we seemingly anxious about what others think or feel? Why must we argue they are wrong, or not as right as we are?
In our relationships, our social beliefs, our politics, it’s more often about the other guy! It seems incontrovertible that we can only change ourselves.
Should we not be spending more of our energy in assessing what is true, or right, or worthy about the other guy’s beliefs, or position, rather than in critical judgements about them?
Of course, that would require of us that we knew more about the down sides of our own beliefs, behaviors and the like. But that’s harder, and not for the “faint-of-heart!”
2
The answer: Trump would inflict so much damage, such, that at that point, impeachment would be meaningless. I suspect that when Mr. Mueller testifies next week, and it i clear from his testimony that Trump obstructed justice, and colluded with the Russians, Perlosi, et. al. will still not impeach. Like the GOP leadership, the Democratic leadership just wants power and to gain more of it. Why? Because their controlling 1% wants it.
Also, Americans will finally realize that both parties are equally corrupt and owned by oligarchs and the highest bidder. Our so called democracy is is shell of its former self, as it has been hijacked by large donors and corporate money.
15
@Nick Metrowsky
Sadly, I have to agree with you. American Government, the Executive, the Judicial and the Legislature's only objective is to ensure the profits of the 1%. The American public are simply pawns in the game.
2
@Nick Metrowsky, it actually matters whether Trump is reelected. There was actually a great difference between Bush Jr and Obama, measured in trillions of dollars and a million lives. Ask our allies if Trump is the same as Obama, not that I idolize him. Ask Putin. Ask those about to lose health care because republicans want them to. But do as you will. I and mine are fighting.
1
@Nick Metrowsky. Agreed that both parties are corrupt and owned by Oligarchs.
But that “Americans will finally realize” it- I won’t hold my breath.
1
Preparation is the fuel of opportunity. With a president so blatant in his corruption as Trump, the opportunity for evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors emerging is inevitable. Without an active inquiry into the actions of the president, however, there is no mechanism to take the necessary steps when the evidence appears.
The Mueller report was such a lost opportunity. Without an active investigation with the power to subpoena Mueller and his team immediately, the impact of the report dissipated before our eyes. Next week’s public and private testimony without a formal impeachment inquiry will be a similar brew of weak tea of questions and non-answers.
House Democratic leaders keep expecting that someone else—SDNY, Mueller, etc.—to do the heavy lifting to save the Republic. Sorry, they are the ones with the duty.
22
Hopefully, Democrats will follow the evidence, if and when revealed, before rushing into anything foolhardy. Speaker Pelosi has the right approach.
9
If the goal is to ensure Trump is reelected, the best possible plan is to initiate a doomed impeachment proceeding, which will go nowhere once it reaches the Senate, no matter how nasty it is made to appear in the House.
A better plan is to find a candidate that does not promise to turn America into a socialist nirvhana, that can govern with wisdom, not revenge, as their primary impulse.
None of the two dozen candidates on TV a couple of weeks ago fits the profile.
8
Yours is one of the most intelligent comments I have seen recently in these pages. When Republicans watch the lineup of Democratic hopefuls they can hardly control their excitement.
3
@Fred Rick
You need to take a look at Amy Klobuchar. She is a very intelligent, thoughtful person with practical ideas. Not so far left. The only thing, we Minnesotans, would miss her as our Senator. She’s been a great Senator and would make a great President.
2
@Fred Rick - What you prove with your remark about "a candidate that does not promise to turn America into a socialist nirvhana (sic)" is that you neither understand the candidates' proposals nor economics.
2
I love Nancy Pelosi, but as long as she's Speaker, there will be no impeachment. She seems to be more concerned with holding onto the House than safeguarding the nation. There are times when an abundance of caution is fatal, and this may be one of them.
14
@David Derbes
Holding on to the House (and regaining control of the Presidency and Senate) is saving the nation.
The oligarch-funded, Fox-fueled contemporary GOP is the enemy.
There are likely few, if any, Howard Bakers in today's GOP.
3
@David DerbesI I doubt this, I think she is positioning for a true win to impeach.
@David Derbes -- As a serious politician, she is not just pounding the table in a frenzy chanting, "Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump."
Aren't you yet sick of hearing that?
What has it really produced? The choir spends more on media. The offended spend more on media. Not much else.
Meanwhile, what else is getting done? Nothing.
This is not 1974, this is 2019.
Network news and the remaining print / electronic media publications carry significantly less clout with the GOP base than they did 1974.
Barring some new accusation that would shock even a jaded, conservative media-inundated GOP base, I can see little possibility of the votes in the Senate ever becoming available to remove the President.
And finally, were the Senate to remove Trump, Pence would almost assuredly pardon him.
The one winning argument that I see for an impeachment involves successful implementation of a hardball strategy to turn any referral to the Senate into a dirty bomb that would contaminate as many GOP Senators up for re-election in 2020 and 2020, thus making them that much easier to take out in a wave election. What I am describing here is an environment where we put Republican Senators on trial, not merely Trump. Are we up to this this kind of hardball? Could we even bring it off?
If Trump is not removed from office between now and January 2021, it is highly unlikely that a pardon for him will ever come into play - thus leaving him fully eligible for later prosecution at the Federal level.
So long as the Democrats do not succumb to radical chic, they will almost certainly regain the Presidency in 2021.
Could we bring off the style of political theater required to put Trump's Senate enablers on trial in an impeachment? It's doubtful but not impossible.
Either way, Trump will eventually pay.
7
Speaker Pelosi's failure to begin an impeachment inquiry is, sadly, following the lead of McConnell, i.e. the laser focus is on winning...at any cost. As a pragmatist, I fully grasp the likelihood that impeachment will fail in the senate. However, Democrats were ushered into office in 2018 to keep Trump AND McConnell, both who were and are actively destroying the rule of law and confidence in a 200+ year old plan of government. If Speaker Pelosi wishes to have a political body over which she can continue to rule, she must ensure that the political body maintains viability. Currently, the whole of Washington appears to be withering into a prune. Pelosi: Inject hope into your countrymen and women. Uphold the rule of law!
10
@Bridget Thomas What is the rule of law ?
I never understood that formula. The law is no rule.
Or it is no law .
That is a british metonymical conception of the law .
@JPH, rule of law as opposed to rules by people. Of course, rules can be enforced, which brings us back to "the rule of law." Rules that are codified into law is that about which I speak/write, and that which I still hope will be enforced.
Nancy is waiting to hear and see how the public reacts to Mueller hearing, which will depend on the extent that Mueller illustrates rather than obfuscates.
9
@David Izzo There was not even an analysis of the report in the press .
What Will It Take for Democrats to Unite Behind Impeaching Trump?
It will take Nancy realizing that if this is the existential crisis she kept saying it is early on, she has to act powerfully, decisively, immediately.
And if it isn't, she has confirmed Trump's whining plea that its a witch hunt. In which case all is lost, except maybe at the state and local level. But even there...
Pelosi put her party in a position of great hazard. Not because she, for some reason, refuses to impeach (which does not mean "convict", it means "investigate"), but because of the deeply bizarre way she has gone about it.
She has time to fix this, but not much.
Whatever happens with the clown car of candidates, those unwilling to leave the stage in a timely manner (Bern, Biden) and those who never belonged there, this is The Nancy Show from here on out.
I do not brim with confidence.
7
Iet is very simple what it would take.
1-Have the House continue with impeachment investigations like it is doing now. Make them objective and not witch hunt hearings.
2-If the House concludes impeachment is called for after presenting its case, look at national polls.
3-If the public is behind them, impeach, if not get concentrate on getting rid of Trump in 2020 by nominating a moderate progressive in tune with voters in purple and some red states.
If they impeach on principle without the backing of the public, it will do more harm than good.
12
The rare use of impeachment in our history is a sign that American voters are not in favor of this extreme method of registering opposition to a president with many dubious activities.
An election is a better solution. Personally I prefer what the Constitution forbids: A bill of Attainder! Hallowed in English history. Archibishop Laud and the Earl of Strafford, those aiding the policies of Charles I, were eliminated in this way. This was of course before Charles could be tried, convicted and executed by Parliament.
Much of our Founders' views were based on an intimate knowledge of the rebellion vs. Charles I.
1
Nixon had won reelection.
Stop comparing Nixon/Trump.
Trump is still in his fist term.
You cannot know what effect it will have on his reelection bid.
You cannot know the unknowable.
2
As most people recognize, impeachment is a political undertaking. So, it should be no surprise that political strategy must be part of the timing. During the summer our citizens are not paying attention to anything happening in Washington. This would be true of impeachment hearings. Upon successful impeachment, almost certainly along partisan lines, the Senate will almost certainly fail to convict, thereby allowing Trump to spend the spring and summer of 2020 playing the victim card to an ignorant public. (The media will have no choice but to play along.) In the unlikely event that the Senate decides to oust Trump, then Republicans will spend the spring and summer of 2020 hyping their integrity and presenting a comparatively sane candidate to an ignorant public.
I'm afraid that the only realistic option is to begin impeachment at the start of 2020 so that the public is informed and energized by November. This will also allow all of the obstruction attempts to wend their way through the courts.
5
Although I have no use for President Trump and think he has committed offense after offense while in office, I do not support impeachment. Those that are crying for impeachment are off base. All that will happen if they impeach him is that the case will go to the Senate and either be held up for a long time or Trump will be given a pass. If they let him serve out his term as president and then let the Southern District Court of NY take care of it, two things will happen. First, the case will really get is day in court and secondly, the most important, there is no way that Pence, if he becomes President, can pardon the man
21
@Bill Dooley
Interesting point. If McConnell was willing to hold up consideration of a duly-nominated and highly-qualified supreme court justice, what makes people think he'd move forward with an impeachment trial? Same arguments of "an election is coming" would apply.
3
@peh McConnell doesn't control the Impeachment Trial. The Chief Justice does, and presides over it as judge with the Senate as Jury. The Chief Justice has shown, appropriately, that the integrity of the Supreme Court is his to uphold and he will do that should the House bring Articles of Impeachment.
1
What will it take for Dems to unite behind impeachment? Elizabeth Warren had it right when she said that it's simply a matter of principle over politics. It is not about political expediency, about positioning the party best to win the 2020 election, though I would think that doing the right thing is still a virtuous move that would resonate with most of the electorate. Those who are so ill-informed, bigoted, or delusional may be beyond winning back to the party anyway.
All it takes at this stage is courage and conviction, because the overwhelming number and seriousness of Trump's offenses cry out for one remedy--impeachment. To avoid what is so necessary would be a betrayal of the very values the Dem Party and our democracy stand for.
13
@TRJ It also can be a matter of education of large numbers of Americans who don't yet know what their president has done. Nixon won a landslide election and enjoyed huge post-election favorability ratings -- something not remotely true of the pretender in our White House today. When the Nixon Impeachment investigation hearings began in the House only 17% of Americans supported the action, but they did watch, they paid attention and their attitudes changed as they learned his perfidy. Today more than 40% of Americans support impeachment and Trump's approval rating has never exceeded 46%. Have a look at Pew Research's tracking of American's view of Nixon and impeachment. It is instructive as to the value of hearings that focus our attention on Presidential misbehavior: https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/FT_14.08.08_NixonResignation_2x.png?w=640
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@Alice Olson I agree that public education and support matters, but as you've suggested, that can be the result of impeachment proceedings. The process of those proceedings would involve public hearings that would educate the public about the nature and extent of Trump's "high crimes and misdemeanors". It's the fault of the public if they aren't aware of Trump's offenses; they are either uniformed (apathetic/disengaged) or ill-informed (receiving deceitful misinformation aimed at reinforcing partisan views). Hearings might force some of those people to face reality, yet many will either ignore or distrust the "facts".
I am tired of all the hand-wringing over impeachment. The Senate will never convict so why bring impeachment now? The value and benefit of impeachment will be to get Trump high crimes and misdemeanors vetted and made public. By the time we get to November 2020 anything the electorate learned will have been swept away by 16 more Trump distractions wrapped in scandal - to which the pubic is inured. Were impeachment to occur during the primary season with the Senate taking up the trial just before the summer recess, every Republican Senator, pursued by the press in his/her home district, would have to talk about it and justify their vote. Do you think Susan Collins is going to vote for acquittal? The Speaker knows how to play hardball and she will if and when the opportunity presents itself. Again, light the flame today and the candle will be cold by election day. To save the Republic, he most important thing is electing a Democratic President, House and Senate in 2020. Nothing else matters. IF impeachment serves that end, go for it. If not, then not. Like the speaker, keep your eyes on the ball.
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The widespread popular “disdain” for politics as a “dirty business” has dense, but brittle, roots in the sullen, shallow and increasingly valid perception that our government, laws, and institutions are not as responsive to the needs of ordinary families, workers, consumers, and communities as they should be.
Ironically, this self defeating perception is being successfully fostered and exploited by the 0.1%, the “ownership class” which desperately needs to be insulated from the pressures and accountability inherent in democratic politics.
None of this absolves us, as the public, from our responsibility to make it loud and clear that this president* and what he represents are unacceptable. Impeaching trimp would certainly send an important message to all future presidents and help restore some accountability to the office. But merely replacing this chief executive with another will not be sufficient to address the obscene wealth inequality that is breaking our politics and which led to this travesty of an administration.
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Getting rid of Trump is like rearranging chairs on the Titanic. Better, I call for a Constitutional Convention to move to a more representative form of government, say a Parliamentary one.
Our Republic form is failing.
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@Cal Page We would have a more representative form of government by getting rid of the electoral college. Giving more weight to the votes of a handful of states over those of the majority is wrong in this day and age.
Maybe the real reason is the lack of a specific reason to impeach. All we here are that there are more than enough reasons to impeach but no reason is ever given. Obstructing investigation into a crime that did not happen is not a good enough reason.
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@Ben Kruger
Obstructing an investigation is a crime, regardless of the outcome of the investigation.
Collusion is not a crime, so it is meaningless to say no crime was committed.
Trump and his campaign clearly had numerous problematic contacts, which they attempted to conceal, with a foreign power determined to assist them.
Impeachment is political, not a legal, process. It seems to me that Trump should be impeached for his incompetence (if nothing else) in dealing with Russian interference in our election, for obstructing justice, and for other reasons as well (failure to staff government with competent, Senate-approved employees, for instance) and that Congress is moving responsibly, deliberately, and silently (good thing) in that direction.
Today, there is more than enough evidence in plain sight that should warrant at least an impeachment committee to be convened.
The difference between now and then is that back then witnesses testified in public on major network TV. Today, the white house has blocked any witness to appear under the totally bogus "Presidential Immunity" claim.
Still, the congress can and should do its constitutional duty and start the process. Congress (and Pelosi) should start educating and LEADING the public opinion instead of being held hostage by them.
The time has come, the cause is just.
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What will be the Saturday Night Massacre equivalent for our time?
Not the Mueller Report, Not the firing of Comey or Rosenstein and Sessions moving on, Not the missing migrant children separated from their families, apparently Not even connections to Epstein, or Deutsche Bank, Not the refusal to appoint a cabinet that could exercise the 25th Amendment, Not the parade of one-trick judges appointed and approved to enforce the law against anyone not beholden to Trump, Not the AG, propping up an Imperial President, Not the upcoming release of Trump's NY Tax returns, Not the initiation of a Trade War, Not the usurped independence of the Fed, Not the repeated Emoluments Clause violations and Security Clearance and Ethical Waivers given to family members and political operatives, No number of golf trips to Trump resorts paid for with taxpayer dollars, ... the number potential watershed events is uncountable. The public, and thus their representatives, appear to be incapable of sufficient angry reaction to any of the horribles presented by this administration to become engaged enough to act.
Are we at the core, sheep, unable to protect ourselves?
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@Johnny Comelately Only loud mouths but no action. Look at what is happening in Hong Kong. Americans think this is a show and nothing else, than, they will cry when the economy goes haywire like 2008.
This will surely happen in the coming years, the downward spiral will start in 2020 with no end in sight.
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@Johnny Comelately
The media refuses to call Trump's High Crimes, "High Crimes."
The only way to force the media to do their job, is for Congress to have an impeachment inquiry.
The only way to force Congress to do their job is for We the People to put millions of feet on the street to peacefully make clear We will not let foreign governments and global billionaires shred our Constitution so they can loot the national wealth.
The People of tiny Hong King are standing up to the Chinese Government.
Do the People of the USA have the fight in us to save our Constitution from global corporate mass media, which tells us its "liberal" to lull us to sleep?
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@Johnny Comelately
Seems like this is a gift that keeps on giving to so many that no one will say anything to disrupt the flow. Even a British ambassador is thrown under the bus for the mistake of telling the truth.
Why no one will call out this travesty to its face is a real mystery.
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"But Democrats favoring an impeachment inquiry can hold to the fact that House Democrats in 1974 ultimately united."
There are few issues that would unite Democrats now and an impeachment inquiry is not one.
And every day that campaigns gear up makes it less likely. Doing so as the campaign gears up would be a godsend for Republicans and Mr. Trump.
The historical parallels are irrelevant.
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"a pro-impeachment surge in public opinion", that's what's lacking, and it's really to late for that. The presidential campaign has already begun, it's only 16 months to the election. Are the House Democrats telling us they need to make the decision, that they can't leave it to the voters? Or are they really telling us they think Mr. Trump will win the election, and what'll they do then?
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Pelosi insists the Democrats focus on bread and butter issues, but I never hear any mention about such concerns from those not running for President. The Speaker's strategy is nothing more than slow-walking the process, so that no one rocks the boat and we all get to vote for Joe Biden, whom her donor base has decided presents the least threat to their pocketbooks.
There's a reason Pelosi and Schumer are the in the positions of power they enjoy, and it has nothing to do with political acumen, and everything to do with being the money magnets on their respective coasts.
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@stan continople In other words, they have done what their constituents elected them to do. Having strong economies are a positive, not a negative.
Pelosi is holding different cards and is playing them well. Assume for a moment that a Republican Senate will never remove Trump from office, a logical assumption. Then what do Democrats do within the constitution to achieve their goals? First, don’t impeach in the summer when no one is paying attention. The only thing worst than stiff opposition is being ignored. Second, in the fall, light the candle and conduct the inquiry. The Mueller testimony and stonewalling will tee that up nicely. The inquiry should take up the rest of the year concluding in early winter with articles of impeachment. Third, thus the senate trial will happen during primary season. It will hobble Trump and give legs to Bill Weld and others who are trying to primary Trump. Fourth, let the 22 GOP senators running for reelection vote against conviction. Pelosi is effectively saying, “Make my day.” The hyper-progressive part o the Dem’s caucus is playing checkers. Pelosi is a chess grand master. Watch this space.
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@Denis. Thank you.
I just submitted a comment that strongly suggested impeachment ... already.
I stand corrected and see the wisdom in right timing. You are right about Pelosi. Yes, impeach but when it is most useful. PATIENCE IS POWER.
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@Denis The Senate trial will not happen.
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@Denis Your elaborate scenario sounds like optimism on steroids. Pelosi is less a chess grand master and more a Wall Street lackey protecting her donors and her own flank.
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Nancy Pelosi fiddles while the Constitution burns.
This is all about power. She has it and intends to keep it, at the expense of the nation’s legal and moral well being. Like trump, she didn’t really mean it when she swore to uphold the Constituton. It’s just something she did to get the job.
The nation is now led by three people — Pelosi, Trump, and McConnell — who only have their own interests in mind. We need a major political overhaul in this country.
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@avrds
That's a facile take
Pelosi knows Trump had a very good shot at reelection and better to use the impeachment strategy for his new term's iteration of the Russia investigation.
The argument for impeachment now is a moral one, not political
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@avrds I am glad she has the power to make the right decision.
Giving the repub-led senate the chance to further empower trump by not convicting and removing him will only encourage trump to continue his distruction of the presidency.
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Impeachment is a political dead end for the Democrats. Here's a novel idea to win back the WH. As they control the House, perhaps they could try passing some legislation that would be of benefit to the country. That notion seems completely foreign to them at this point in time as they obsess over Trump. As of today, they have absolutely no political compass that directs them to success. We've seen this pattern all too often.
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@Mike In fact since they took the reins in the House in January 2019, the Democrats have passed HR-1 a sweeping anti-corruption, pro-democracy bill, as well as bills to require universal background checks for gun sales, save net neutrality, lower prescription drug prices, protect people with preexisting conditions, HR-5 (Equality Act), HR-7 (Paycheck Fairness Act), HR-9 (Climate Action Now Act), HR 1331 (Water Protection Act), Violence Against Women Re-authorization Act, Consumers First Act, and dozens more. Most have gone to the Senate to be strangled by Mitch McConnell. So please check the facts before you spread inaccurate information that only feeds this narrative that there is no difference between the parties. If you want a government that addresses your problems, vote Democrat in 2020, especially the Senate where all good ideas and bills go to die.
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@Mike
They have passed dozens of bills; how did the Senate vote on them? Oh, right, Mitch "The Grim Reaper" McConnell won't even introduce them...the same way he blocked a Supreme Court nominee from the opposing party.
I'm no fan of Pelosi and current Democratic leadership, but McConnell is as much to blame as anyone for the current rot in our system.
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The Democrats cannot impeach Trump. Only the Senate can do that and Republicans have a majority in the Senate, so impeachment of Trump will never happen unless Republicans decide it can happen.
So the question is what will it take for Republicans to get behind impeaching Trump?
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@Cornflower Rhys
You’re wrong. The House impeaches and its judgment stands alone. The Senate holds a trial to convict and remove from office. If the House is the only body that votes for impeachment, that judgment still stands and tRump is impeached, even if he is not removed from office.
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@Linda S, Then what is the point? There's only Democratic hysteria, that's it, the same hysteria that will cost them the election.
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@Cornflower Rhys The Democrats can in fact impeach trump. The problem is that the majority Repub Senate will not convict and remove.
Impeachment by the House and removal by the Senate are separate actions.
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Tip O’Neill was the majority leader, not the Speaker, during the lead-up to the Watergate hearings and the hearings themselves. He became Speaker in 1977. Carl Albert was Speaker at the time in question.
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Time is passing. We're about seven months away from the Iowa caucuses, and the primaries come thick and fast after that. There will then be enormous pressure to take no impeachment action in the midst of the campaign, and to "let the voters decide." And of course Trump has done nothing to protect the security of our votes.
What the Democratic leadership doesn't seem to realize is that they are demoralizing their base, and that has a real cost. People worked hard and donated to the max to get a democratic Congress because we wanted a check on the unconstitutional exercise of power by Donald Trump--and yes, by Mitch McConnell. And we get this? Passing bills on health care, etc. that go to die in the Senate?
This constitutional crisis now belongs almost--almost--as much to the democrats as it does to the republicans.
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@Susannah
The Democratic base would be best advised by the sharing of some honest facts about the position of the Democratic Party and how politics work in the US. If you want to get legislation passed, you need majorities to pass it in both the House and the Senate. Then you need a president in the WH to sign the bill. Then it becomes law. In our current polarized state, only a Democratic majority in the House or the Senate will pass legislation favored by Democrats and only a Democratic president would sign the bills passed by Democratic majorities. We need to focus on winning majorities in the House and Senate and electing a Dem president in the next election if we are to do anything about the accessibility and affordability of health care, global climate change, our collapsing infrastructure, income inequality, unending wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc., etc., etc.
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@Cornflower Rhys
I do understand all of that. But there is another issue which you don't mention, and that is the preservation of our constitution and the separation of powers. As far as doing anything about the issues you mention, we should recognize that we're in a legislative dead zone for the moment, and will be, as long as Trump is in office.
If he is reelected, impeachment becomes impossible, and our democracy is truly imperiled.
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@Cornflower Rhys, or you negotiate a bill that can pass in both the Democratic House and the Republican Senate. That’s called legislating, it’s what a good government does. It’s very rare and pretty unlikely in the US to have both houses and the President all be of the same party.
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Speaker Pelosi's politcal savy tells her, going into the the 2020 election, stay with won them the House back in 2016, emphasisizing Health Care.
The Republicans will delay, delay, delay, on everything 'Impeachment'. And come the 2020 election cycle, the 'impeachment issue' will remain unsolved and hanging like a bad piece of low hanging fruit for all to see. Period!
The healthCare issue is what polls indicate got Democrats to the polls in numbers that crushed the Republicans in 2016 and GOT THEM THE HOUSE BACK IN DEMOCRAT'S HANDS.
The 'squad', the four House Members who want to beat the drums of 'impeachment', are showing their inexperience. Pelosi knows better. At times like this you go with what gave you success in the past, acting on the hard core initiatives that got your constituents to the voting booths and not acting on the political flavor of the moment.
One needs to follow the most relative of the polling numbers, Nate Silver's '538's How Popular is Donald Trump vs How Unpopular is Donald Trump'. The results should be a real gut-check for Democrats.
His favorable numbers continue to hold rock-steady, those indicating 'likely or registered voters' actually up a couple of ticks during the past three months, and showing no indications of slipping. And with the economy running as strong as it is , you can bet the farm Trump's numbers will not give an inch.
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New times call for new measures. The focus for democratic leaders should be to reinvigorate the base and get a very high turnout- something that was conspicuously lacking in 2016. Inaction and incompetency on the behalf of democratic leadership(particularly Pelosi and hoyer) when it comes to holding the trump administration accountable- the main reason behind the higher turnout and success in midterms- will lead to a demotivated base and will give trump’s reelection campaign a bigger boost than if republican senators voted to keep him in office.
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@merc
And what heathcare bill has she brought forward?
@Mark
Pelosi wants to keep what's in place, improving what's there in Obama Care to benefit all in the Working and Middle classes.
Have you even researched what Pelosi stands for? if you did you wouldn't be asking such an inane question.
With that said, the Republicans are waiting in the wings, loving the notion you uninformed types, or the Republican supporters you appear to be, are professing.
And why? Because if the Dems fail, say hello to the day the Republicans replace Obama Care with Privatized Medicine.
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I do not know. However, I imagine it will take Pelosi caring more about the country than the Democratic Party. Sometimes strategy must be thrown to the wind and the truth must rise to the occasion.
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The votes in the Senate simply aren't there. Given that, impeachment would be nothing more than symbolic. Pelosi obviously knows this, and is afraid that Trump surviving the vote would just make him stronger going into the election.
I think she's right.
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@Fry
I agree. Pelosi has never said that Trump is innocent. She wants to have all the ducks in a row before this action is taken, as she knows that McConnell and the Republicans in Congress today are a different breed than back in Nixon's time. I admire her for keeping the focus on retaking the Senate and WH first, which will take a great deal of effort in America today.
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@Fry
An Impeachment Inquiry is far more than symbolic. It is an investigation into High Crimes by the President of the United States of America. It gives Congress far more power in the courts to compel testimony and evidence.
More importantly it would force the media to actually discuss Trump's High Crimes in detail, instead of calling any analysis of the Mueller Impeachment Referral* a "do-over" when they haven't analyzed it the first time.
I said I would trust Trump's Republican investigator.
*Mueller said:
Putin ordered attacks into our actual election systems at the state level, as well as DNC hacks and social media propaganda.
Trump OBSTRUCTED the investigation into those attacks.
"the Constitution has a process other than the criminal justice system to accuse a sitting president."
Trump keeps calling for political violence against citizens without due process of law. That undermines the entire point of a Constitutional system of government.
Everything Trump does is base on his needs and wants. That is what his base loves about him.
The President of the United States is hired to faithfully execute the law; laws written by our representatives in Congress to fulfill the needs and wants of We the People. Trump is unwilling and unable to do that. He thinks he's king.
Trump demands personal loyalty from public servants, as if he were king.
Trump floats the idea of president for life," then equates it to king.
Trump thinks he can make up the law, like a king.
IMPEACH
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@Fry
Pelosi, by letting our country slide further each day into a fascist abyss, is seriously abdicating her oath of office. So she has learned the importance and use of "power" and "control" at the hands of her father (just as Trump did, btw), saving our country's rule of law and the Republic itself should be of utmost importance. Is keeping her speakership that important that she will continue to "fiddle as Rome burns?"
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What will it take? Tapes with enough detail to convince Republican Senators to vote for impeachment. Until then I fear that an impeachment in the House, without removal from the Senate, will leave Trump in a stronger position.
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Without the Senate, impeachment is as useful as writing a strongly worded letter. Pelosi is right - gather the evidence, ensure he is not re-elected, and then prosecute.
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@g In the meantime Trump and the Federalist Society and McConnell will continue to stack the benches with a bevy of foul, incompetent judges. Prosecuting him will be no walk in the park and is as likely to fail as is a Senate vote to remove him. What does the Democratic House we worked so hard to give to Pelosi stand for? It's own re-election? How is that different from Trump and McConnell?
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@Alice Olson, it will be about as fast to vote them out, and might actually remove him. The senate will not. Impeachment will NOT remove Trump now. I don't know why this is hard to grasp.
1
No single person since Joseph McCarthy has done more to damage Congress than Mitch McConnell. Under his leadership, the United States Senate as an institution has been reduced to rubble. As long as I live, I will never forget what he did with the nomination of Merrick Garland. And, now, warmly embracing his role as "Grim Reaper," he would push through a replacement for Justice Ginsburg in a Kentucky bourbon minute if he gets the chance. Speaker Pelosi knows this. And, for someone who is in power, she knows there's nothing she can do about it. Certainly, the presidency of Donald Trump will go down in history as a low point in American politics, but it is Mitch McConnell, and not Donald Trump, who is the architect of a paralyzed Congress without principles, morals, or institutional integrity. Defeating Donald Trump is certainly of the highest priority, as long as Mitch McConnell holds the Senate, we all will continue to suffer as the Grim Reaper smirks while swinging his scythe cutting down everything and everyone in his path.
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@Didier
If there is a person who has done more damage, iit would be Chuck Schumer, who can never stop McConnell from doing anything and can never get anything done, because of McConnell. (And no, bipartisan signing of bad right-wing legislation is not getting anything done. Nor is fast-tracking Republic judicial nominees as Schumer was doing last year.)
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@Didier ... you are so right ... even if the Democrats are fortunate enough to take back all three branches of government in 2020; even if McConnell is forced from the leadership role but retains his seat, he will do everything within his considerable powers to completely muck up any chances for the Senate to get anything done. The man is as close to evil incarnate as the history of this country has ever produced. He MUST be defeated, and thrown out of office!
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For all of those that think that impeachment is a waste of time look at the actual history.
After Clinton's impeachment, Gore lost to Bush, and the Democrats lost the House 14 out of the last 20 years and the Senate 16 of those years. They also lost control a a large majority of states.
Impeachment was not good for Democrats.
Trump keeps committing High Crimes. It may not help to impeach him, but not impeaching him means that future presidents will use Trump's crimes as a baseline.
The only way to make corporate media discuss Trump's crimes, apparently, is to have an impeachment inquiry, which would also give Democrats more power in the courts.
I have been researching CIA installed Dictators for 40 years. Trump is the classic Dictator wannabe. He actually studies them and emulates them. I have criticized the CIA for these corrupt coups, but unlike Trump, I have never called our intelligence agencies "treasonous."
It is not about the Wall. It is about abusing emergency powers to cancel elections and suspend the Constitution.
Before he can do that he must weaken the belief by We the People in Our Constitution. To do that he must attack its basic tenets every day, while Russian Intelligence runs a campaign to weaken belief in government and global billionaires do the same. (It doesn't matter if they planned it in advance or not, Trump publicly asks for it, and Russia delivers.)
Our Republic is under attack from the Oval Office.
IMPEACH!
22
If this president's actions don't warrant impeachment, what would? If this president is not impeached, then the impeachment clause becomes meaningless. Even worse, the White House + Justice Department's defying of Congressional subpoenas without consequences may finally render the US Congress a vestigial body with no real role in our government. Perhaps this can be countered with rejection of Trump at the polls in 2020, but (a) I'm not entirely sure that would effectively preclude a repeat in some future administration, and (b) there's plenty of evidence that Trump and his ilk will throw us into a different level of constitutional crisis rather than hand power over to a Democrat in 2020. If that happens, impeachment will seem like the moderate opportunity to have taken. Pelosi is playing a very dangerous game.
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@Contrary Mary, Impeachment without conviction and removal DOES seem to be meaningless. Clinton's impeachment without removal made him more popular. Now, I agree with you that the continued defiance of subpoenas may be a more useful avenue.
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@Susan, I hear you, but if/when the public actually wakes up to the fact that they've lost their beloved US Constitution, who will they blame? As things stand now, they can blame the Democrats as much as the Republicans. We must show courage and stand up against insurmountable odds in these situations, even knowing there will surely be defeat in the short term. Will that assure Trump's re-election? I don't think that is known (although not being able to question anyone makes that scenario more likely), but I still think Dems need to stand up and call this behavior for what it is. It is precisely when acting responsibly seems like a fool's errand that it is most important to do so.
21
@Susan
After Clinton's impeachment, Gore lost to Bush, and the Democrats lost the House 14 out of the last 20 years and the Senate 16 out of 20 years. They also lost control a a large majority of states.
Impeachment was not good for Democrats.
Trump keeps committing High Crimes. It may not help to impeach him, but not impeaching him means that future presidents will use Trump's crimes as a baseline.
The only way to make corporate media discuss Trump's crimes, apparently, is to have an impeachment inquiry, which would also give Democrats more power in the courts.
Trump is actively undermining almost every part of the Constitution. Trump attacks our defenders and defends our attackers. Literally.
To not impeach Trump is to leave the Constitution undefended from a wannabe despot.
None of what Trump says is funny. It is all an attack on Our Constitution.
Mueller said Congress must take care of this. Congress, do your jobs.
17
Powerful men who could hold Trump accountable for his crimes aren't doing so and won't do so until they have to.
Powerful men who could have held Jeffrey Epstein accountable for his crimes didn't do so but are doing so now because they have to.
Interesting parallel.
I wonder how all you "reluctant" House Democrats will look when the evidence against Trump reaches the point where you have to join the "zealots."
And what is a "zealot" anyway? Does simply being right, and not taking too long to be right or to do right, make one a zealot?
The pro-impeachment members of the House aren't a rapid mob. They are simply members of Congress who are somehow finding it within themselves to do their job like the Constitution tells them to do.
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@Ken
Global Corporate Mass Media is not telling the People that what Trump is doing is unconstitutional.
They are not calling his High Crimes, "High Crimes."
Establishment Democrats are not calling Trump's crimes, "High Crimes."
The naked guy is trying to become Emperor and everyone is afraid to say that its a "High Crime."
Trump makes himself the center of every decision he makes as president. That is not the job of president. Congress is supposed to turn the Will of the People into laws. The president is supposed to faithfully execute those laws.
The president is not supposed to ignore laws (like asylum laws that say asylum seekers have a right to come to the border and ask to be processed.) The president is not supposed to interpret the law (according to Marbury v Madison) which has been the way its done for 213 years. Trump claimed he could interpret the Constitution to decide who is a citizen.
A president that thinks that he can interpret the law without Congressional Oversight has no checks or balances, just control of a large military and police forces. Then the law becomes whatever Trump says it is.
A president that did only one or two of these things would not be such a problem. But Trump is attacking most of the Constitution at the same time in a blatant attempt to undo the Revolution and make himself king.
Just like a king, Trump thinks only of himself, tries to make law without Congress or the Courts, and calls for violence against critics.
IMPEACH!
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@Ken Dear Ken:- Did you mean "rapid mob" or is that a typo for "rabid mob?" Either way, given the context, it works. best wishes.
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Powerful men and women won't do so until....their own power is threatened.
5