to the earlier allegations and not the netflix special:
"bad date" crew: ansari has made a lucrative career out of being The Woke Guy. he wrote a book about romance. his series explores dating and love and nuances therein -- portraying himself as empathetic, sensitive, interested in other people's experiences. he's done well for himself. when this "bad date" came out, we saw that while he publicly earns a living on being a mensch, privately he's quick to cash in with starstruck, timid, and low-status women to get laid using the path of least resistance. if you're OK with that being normal behaviour in dating -- men are "cads", etc. -- fine, those are your sad standards. but this revealed a crucial fraud in ansari's business of being authentic, thoughtful and woke. so there's that.
"i am a woman and IMHO..." crew: wonderful. i'm happy you are confident and forthright and would not let yourself be badgered into sex with a partner who keeps light-jabbing you until you fall down. i wish more (all) women were like this. but ansari would not have asked for your number. he sought out the very sort of woman for his aim -- lower status, timid, starstruck -- for an easy transaction to get him from A to B. is it louis CK? is it harvey weinstein? nope. but it's low-key predatory dating behaviour, using his fame to access her genitals.
red wine: you guys delight in this small detail. it was actually revealing about how little he considered her a human worth getting to know.
94
Thank you Mr. Zinoman for writing this. It prompted me to watch the special last night. I laughed. I cried. I felt changed by it. I snapped my fingers at it. A bit like going to church.
17
Aziz is one of the best comics out there. Glad to see him back out there creating new material.
There's a good reason that the article on his dating life was published on "babe.net" and not by a more reputable source. It was cynical and dishonest, an example of using exaggerated accusations for the sake of vengeance. The entire #metoo movement's credibility was diminished as a result, and it's a shame that real victims are less likely to be believed because of women who use the moment for personal vendettas.
60
Women who’ve been treated like Ansari’s deserve to be heard and to know that society supports them. She should be able to extract any damage she wishes upon him. Given his celebrity, that should and does include grounding his “career.” Let him get a job on the Walmart overnight packout crew where he won’t be seen by anyone.
24
@Kyle
While i was sympathetic to Ansari for the date gone wrong,
i do feel he was lumped in with other guys with behavior far more egregious than his. Not saying he was totally innocent of boorish, inappropriate behavior for which he was taken to task.
i must also say however, He is really not that funny.
14
@From Where I Sit
Wait a minute - this old broad here is confused. Ansari's career needs to be grounded because a woman had a bad date with him? I don't get it. Her complaint that he offered one wine when she would have preferred another? They had a hook up that wasn't fun? Ok so I came of age in the 70's when things were SO much different but that woman is a danger to herself and to others.
Unless I'm missing something because it has been a year or so since I read her tribe...it seemed like she wanted to jump on the MeToo bandwagon but for this feminist, it came across as a person who wanted and required a lot of attention.
153
I’m still trying to understand what the sexual misconduct was. From multiple rereading of his accuser’s account, she was not in any pressured and as soon as she said no, he stopped and made sure she got home safely.
The only thing he may have been guilty of was not being able to read her mind and not being a Casanova in bed. That resulted in him being publicly humiliated by an anonymous coward who couldn’t figure out her own sexual needs. She reduced herself to a pitiful self-inflicted victim.
159
@Sipa111 I could not have said it any better. When I going up it was just a "bad date" and you moved on.
42
Abby Nierman is "Grace's" real name. Her twitter was leaked and her private discussion from before her article about the night in question outed her as a complete fraud and a liar.
It's pathetic that Abby Nierman stained the cause of real victims and articles like this refuse to out her real name.
71
Mildly amusing special. Yes, he addresses increased sensitivities. He also puts forth milquetoast comedy with no real poignancy or bite. C
9
The essay in Babe left me feeling pretty queasy. Was it sexual assault? Not exactly. Was it rape? No. Was it somewhere on a spectrum of bad behavior? Yes. Was it indicative of degrading attitudes toward women in society and evidence of male entitlement? I think so. He harangued a woman for hours into doing sex acts she wasn't comfortable with, leveraging his position as a celebrity in the process. I don't think he should go to jail for it, but I believe it's wrong and troubling behavior and a symptom of something bigger. It forever changed the way I look at Ansari, especially since he had built such an innocent, nice-guy persona. Maybe that's really why it was so jarring for many people. In the meantime, he seems to have bounced back spectacularly, like bad-behaving celebrities always do, and the narrative that women should never be believed wins the day, unfortunately.
61
Sexual misconduct is not a binary, it is a spectrum, and a refusal to acknowledge the nuance of sexual politics, power dynamics, and dating culture is harming the entire narrative. I'm not here to pass judgment on who deserves to be "forgiven," but the demonization of this woman in this comment section and many like it across the internet is vitriolic and hateful.
65
I saw the special on Netflix. Thought it was really funny and worth a watch.
16
Happy to hear he’s back. Master of None was a show that actually had me laughing out loud a few times (not an easy thing to do)
13
Excellently written and sharply observed. Have also appreciated your first article on Aziz. Insightful, quality journalism.
11
Had #MeToo given up its instant Kangaroo Court judgments, replacing them with due process, Ansari probably would have escaped his persecution.
36
So horribly awkward what he went through in public. To have one of my bad dates be everybodys business???
I wish him great success in the future. Can't wait to see his Netflix.
74
The presumption of innocence has been eclipsed by hysterical,baseless accusations. He has nothing to apologize for.
61
As a 53 year old woman, I was horrified to read Grace's account. Horrified that a woman felt the need to publish a detailed account of a consensual sexual encounter that painted the man as at worst, selfish and unaware. Welcome to the world, Grace. It's not just men; it's women, too. I would imagine it was very humiliating for Aziz to know that the takeaway for anyone who read it was, he's terrible in bed. Me Too isn't about disappointing consensual sexual encounters. And by the way, shame on the now defunct website for publishing such rubbish.
214
then you blame a male politician for not wanting to be alone with a female reporter. #bettersafethansorry
32
As a MeToo#, I was very distressed by what happened to Aziz Ansari. A bad consensual date is not grounds for mediated character assassination. Mr. Ansari was the target of a digital vendetta.
The pendulum swinging too far, and taking down innocent people,
is not okay.
128
@Philly girl - there was no pendulum here. This was an axe fall.
15
the most important point of this article that goes unremarked as such is that the publisher of Ansari's character assassination is no more...and Asnari will live with the consequences the attack on him forever.
49
@teoc2
Exactly!
15
These days, all anyone in a "victim group" (ie not a straight man) has to say is, "I felt unsafe" and the man's life is over. It doesn't matter that an objective review of the facts would provide vindication for the accused. It doesn't matter that these accusations do a disservice to real victims. The woke monster needs to be fed. Thank God I'm happily married. Dating today sounds horrible.
54
@MJG His life is over? Which he talks about on his Netflix special?
30
Stop infantilizing women. If you don’t want to do something, speak up.
56
@Jennifer Yes, the undisclosed, intended recipient of your comment should stop infantilizing women. Also, stop being self-centered and gross in how you treat women.
9
Male privilege and rampant misogyny shouldn’t allow men to ask. A woman doesn’t have to tolerate uninvited contact. Period. That offensive contact can range from a momentary glance to a complement to asking for a date. At the very least, offenders should be publicly ostracized in all settings. Conduct worse than these needs to have criminal justice consequences.
5
@From Where I Sit: except that Aziz's accuser went to his apartment and hopped atop the kitchen counter with legs apart (her description of events). Uninvited contact? - I don't think so.
58
Although it is unfair that all these guys who are just exhibiting the usual frat boy creep dating behavior are getting destroyed, when actual criminal sexual predators are rewarded with lucrative careers and accolades, I'm not feeling too sorry for them.
Women and girls have been abused FOREVER. Raped, sold, grabbed, probed, leered at, catcalled, blackmailed, drugged, degraded, controlled and menaced. There is not a woman who has not experienced some form of sexual assault or sexual harassment or just basic sexism.
I think that the pendulum swinging a little too far in the other direction is fine. Maybe it's time all men felt just a tiny bit of uncomfortable every day and had to be careful of their behavior and maybe did some self reflection of equality.
59
Do you realize that means that you are punishing people even though they did nothing wrong. Men are not a monolithic group. They are not a single entity. There are people who did not participate in any of the egregious behavior that you describe that will be made to suffer because of the pendulum swinging a “little” too far.
47
I wonder if you are this scrupulous when it comes to women informing authorities they've been raped. Is your first reaction "but Duke lacrosse team" and "there's no proof"? Because that's how all women are treated as a monolithic, lying group.
How does it feel?
18
Moral of the story, always have some red wine in the house.
30
Sexual misconduct?
4
Ansari gives an apology in the beginning then spends most of his act putting forth the thesis that people are just making a big deal out of nothing these days. …. sort of like I apologize but here's how I really feel about it. …. His set made we try and remember why I thought he was funny.
16
@Gmuntin, Maybe he said that some people are making a big deal out of nothing because that's completely true?
37
[[“It’s made not just me but other people more thoughtful, and that’s a good thing,” he says.]]
I don't know if "thoughtful" is the right word. I think everyone should take to heart the words of a ref in a boxing match..."protect yourself at all times"...and either Skype your lawyer into your date or have dinner and drinks and then send the other person packing.
4
Absolutely, if you can't trust yourself not to behave in a way that could be construed as sexual misconduct or assault, please end all your dates in the street and not in anyone's bedroom.
20
Well at least he knows who he works for!
1
Ansari did not do anything wrong. A girl was not satisfied with her date with him and she dragged him through the mud by writing a detailed anonymous account of her date (where she got naked on his kitchen counter, did not enjoy having sex with him, and then they decided to watch TV together.) this “accusation” also stated that he only had white wine in his house and the girl preferred red. Sometimes dates don’t work out.
As a gay man who lived in Manhattan in my youth I have had plenty of unsatisfying sex with minor celebrities and bad dates but I have the decency to keep those stories to myself and my friends!
120
The offenders should be outed if only to stop them from repeating their behavior.
6
@From Where I Sit By " offender" you mean the woman, right?
29
I'm really excited by this trend of creating shows that are an amalgamation of comedy and introspection and criticism instead of simply comedy. Aziz's special is like the cishet male Nannette (and true to form its not as good as Nannette,) but still, the point is... cool that we can combine comedy with blatant anguish these days. I think it makes for a more interesting, thought provoking watch.
8
I couldn’t be more tired of men equating death with getting called out for sexual aggression and misdeeds, losing their jobs, etc. I will not feel sorry for you, especially as you discuss this as part of a “comeback” where you still, in fact, have that same job.
38
@Alex
Mr. Ansari was not called out for sexual aggression. That is not only untrue, but also terribly unfair to this man's reputation and career. Maybe you should inform yourself better before posting such comments. Why not read the woman's version of the story before you comment on something you clearly have no idea about? By doing so, you'll discover that she never claimed to have been assaulted and that she was in no way the victim of any aggression. It was simply a bad date.
64
@Alex How, precisely, did he engaged in "sexual aggression" or "misdeeds"?
23
An Ansari is appropriately accountable for the outcome of that “date.” He is far from innocent and his reappearance is proof that he just doesn’t get it.
7
I saw it last night on Netflix. I thought it was wonderful! Tears at the end... We're all in this together... right now... being present.
12
I love Aziz and saw his comeback tour. I am thrilled he is back. That accusers claim was ridiculous and it's a shame it derailed his career in any capacity.
38
I attempted to watch this show on Netflix last night. 10 minutes past his statement about that sexual episode, I found his act to be less than mediocre and the director apparently tried to make up for that by many audience shots of the people laughing the hardest. I imagine there was a lot of time spent in the editing room to include these people.
Not only lousy material but I find Aziz’s voice extremely annoying.
Note to directors and editors; when I’m attending a live show I don’t spend 30% of the time watching the audience. Please stop with the audience shots, especially during musical acts.
20
Aziz is on a fool's errands. Deep down, the woke crowd views all straight men as rapists whose very existence makes them feel "unsafe". There's nothing Aziz can do to change this dynamic. I'm a big believer in not trying to be part of groups where I'm not wanted. Unfortunately, it looks like Aziz hasn't gotten the message. Like Joe Biden, the SJWs won't stop until he's destroyed.
20
Straight males who haven’t raped are still responsible for the failure of males to stop rape by other males. The bro culture that fails to end the cycle is nearly as guilty as the rapist.
20
Your comment should be made into a Trump reelection commercial. Well done!
17
How is it that not every single man is ruined by false accusations? I mean, you present that as default female behavior, so shouldn't the numbers of men accused of rape or sexual misconduct equal the number of men who've dated, been alone with a woman, or had hetero intercourse?
7
It's terrific that this article was written by a man. TREMENDOUS!
15
It's a little odd that the Times would send someone who admits he did not really like Ansari's body of work up to this point to review his current show. Mr. Zinoman all but admits that he appreciates Ansari's newest Netflix show mostly because he seems like he's "changed" or because he seems less glib. I think it's going too far (and missing the point) to judge this comedian's work solely on the basis of his adherence to "woke" culture.
11
Weinstein, Cosby-rapists, Matt at NBC, Charlie Rose, employers who used their powers to sexual attack their underlings. Virtually all of the me-to accusations I have found credible and believed the women. And our President, vomit inducing. I read the Babe article at least 7 times and I just don't see how this is remotely similar to the more famous cases. Sexually insensitive, sure. A bad date, as far as I can tell terrible. But sexual assault or abuse of power I can't see it. According to her account he pointed to himself asking for oral sex and she complied. He didn't grab her, he didn't threaten her, he simply made a crude request for something he wanted. Tacky, you bet. But instead of simply walking out and saying lose my number she complied instead. He held no power to influence her job, it's not like the Rose case where he was her boss. She had the ability to end this date anytime she wanted. eventually she did just that, she should have done it sooner. Would I call him a sensitive man, no. Would I describe his actions an example of a selfish sexual partner, yes. But sexual assault, no
91
The circumstances with Aziz Ansari really stretch the term "misconduct" to the breaking point.
He performed consensual oral sex on a woman he was on a date with. They both agree it was consensual.
She writes about the date as being disheartening and disillusioning. She was hoping for a more genuine connection, and she saw Ansari as romantic and light-hearted, and not someone who would pursue sex so directly and immediately. She was disappointed.
It is 100% OK for her to feel that way. It is 100% OK for Ansari to examine the night through that lens, and to regret how his actions made her feel.
But where is the "sexual misconduct?" He asked for and respected her wishes throughout the encounter. They went their separate ways.
I understand wanting your date to play out like a Rom-Com when the date is a lovable goofball like Aziz Ansari. I understand being disappointed. But using the term "sexual misconduct" is deeply inappropriate - unfair to Ansari but even moreso to survivors of violence, implied blackmail, intimidation, etc.
105
The Babe article should never have been published. The fact that the writer couldn't find any outlets to print the story other than a no-name website no one had previously heard of says everything. It wasn't news. It was just someone recounting a very bad date and trying to ride the coattails of an actual serious newsworthy issue. I'm glad Aziz Ansari can make jokes of it now, but it's terrible that his name got smeared during the #metoo movement simply because some inexperienced publication lacked news judgment.
63
Ansari was the one celebrity called out by #Metoo who didn’t commit a crime and who publicly apologized to his accuser. Ansari’s show is self-reflective, sometimes self-critical, and more perceptive, vulnerable, and funnier than his past shows, that often felt shallow and self-absorbed on dating and relationships. Ansari hammers on white wokeness, both exorcising his bitterness at being dissected in public, and pushing his audience to reflect on the cultural judgments they make, without slipping into the celebrity comic punching downward. His experience threatened his career and identity as a comic and changed his outlook. What #Metoo is supposed to do.
17
@Bruce Shigeura
Don't forget Al Franken.
33
I am glad Aziz Ansari is out and about with his new shows.
The accusation on him in part was simply ridiculous, the accuser stayed anonymous yet pointed her finger at Ansari when he had no chance to defend himself.
40
I'm a huge fan and that Ansari is being called out for MeToo behaviour exhibited on a DATE??.... that is just ludicrous and inappropriate to the circumstances. Of course, I don't know him in real life but he seems a gentleman rather than a pig. I also don't agree that his humor is mediocre. He is extremely sharp, probably funnier in nature than Jerry Seinfeld, and definitely not guilty of crossing the same boundaries and Louis C. K., for example.
12
@Diane
In reading the Babe story, I struggle to gauge the extent to which Ansari is culpable in any legal sense (though I do believe what he did was unacceptable). But your incredulity that Ansari would be "called out for MeToo behavior being exhibited on a DATE" is at best, misguided and at worst, harmful. Of course people are sexually assaulted on dates. Most sexual assaults are perpetrated by people known to the survivor. The fact that perpetrators are rarely held accountable for their actions is, in large part, due to the cultural belief that rapists are men who hide in bushes, who couldn't possibly be "gentlemanly," "sharp," and "funny."
18
I am a fan of Ansari and haven't seen the whole special yet, but I saw a preview where he torments a white woman for not liking Crazy Rich Asians enough. (She rated it an 85; Rotten Tomatoes gave it a 97 he tells her).
Leaving aside that he knowingly misrepresents the score RT gave it (a 97 means that 97% of critics recommend it, not that it is a near perfect film) his humor had a cruel streak that I've never seen from him before.
That he apparently does another bit, per this review, where he gets laughs by making a white man say a word very similar to the N-word into a microphone (the poor guy knowing he is being taped for a worldwide Netflix special) also seems mean-spirited.
One wonders if Ansari is trying to throw off his rich, famous, male sexual predator cloak which is partially valid (he didn't assault the girl, but he was hardly a good guy either) for his more comfortable victim of white privilege garb.
8
@Sparky
Don't you think that claiming that Mr. Ansari wears a "sexual predator cloak" is a gross exaggeration? It is terribly unfair to his reputation and career to equate his date with a crime.
18
@Sparky You misheard (miswatched?) that. He ribbed her because she gave it a relatively *high* rating out of fear of appearing insufficiently multicultural. Just the opposite of how you characterized it, and the point of the whole bit.
16
Are there really no female comedy critics that could’ve written about this?
14
I read the article by "Grace" when this thing first came out. What I took away was, she worked her contacts to get a date with him; made sure to come across as "interested;" went back to his apartment with him --- relax, I'm not going to slut-shame anyone --- went back to his apartment with him and willingly went along with taking things to the sexual level. Once there, however, he was very up-front (or selfish, or pushy, or entitled) about what he wanted, and she would not speak up, either about what she wanted or what she didn't want. She just went along with things up to a certain point, feeling awkward and uncomfortable and wishing he would somehow just know how she felt. Once she finally balked at something, he didn't force her to do anything. When she left, if I remember correctly she texted him from the car saying she didn't have a good time; he was apologetic but didn't really know why she felt that way (something along the lines of "oh no! I'm sorry. Why not?"). That may have been clueless of him, or it may just be that she was too good at dissimulation for him to know what she was thinking. None of what happened in her written account is a crime.
56
He still seems like kind of a frat boy to me.
9
” To which Ansari interrupts, furiously shaking his head and hands: “That was Hasan.”
Not remotely funny. With its uneasy shock value, The whole thing sort of becomes akin magician waving left hand around for audience to watch while right one works the trick.
A mea culpa mid set and less pacing and people are placated...I guess Fitzgerald was wrong.
4
I watched the special last night and thought it was excellent and very thought-provoking. During his scandal last year, I found myself very torn between two thoughts.
I was very pleased to see a national discussion on how men need to treat women during dates, but I was equally frustrated that Aziz's name and career seemed to be destroyed due to this-- a punishment that I thought was unfair for what Aziz did.
Overall, I believe that this special handled both of my concerns very well. Not only did it bring back Aziz from relative silence in the national landscape, but more importantly, it addressed how the woman felt and his personal growth as a person. And that growth, he acknowledges, wasn't just meant for him; I think many men stopped and examined their own behavior, something that had to be done.
34
There is an unfortunate self-congratulatory and mutual backscratching tone to this column. After noting his past dislike of the comic's humor and his prior criticism for Ansari not discussing the controversy, he proudly notes that Ansari now discusses it and--VOILA--praises Ansari's performance.
This gives the impression that he is praising Ansari for folowing his advice.
16
“There’s still a certain slickness in how he presents his story, and… Others might find this show is just crafty image rehabilitation, and they won’t be entirely wrong. But it’s more than that.”
/agree. I found the special “entertaining,” a blend of funny and thoughtful, which is I suppose the first thing it should be critiqued on. Ansari shared reflections/life lessons from his recent PR crisis/missteps in the beginning of the show that seemed honest and heartfelt. However, whether this was genuine started to move in the direction of a question as, noted above, by the end it started to seem a bit too manufactured, purposely contrived PR, with the goal of reputation repair too obvious. I may be too cynically suspicious, but I think many of us may be these days. The “authenticity-as-content” of YouTube may have taken a toll on a lot of us.
Additionally, there was another thing going on: (Ansari as entirely a collection of disadvantaged identities) and the (largely White audience members as a collection of advantaged identities). The problem with this dichotomy is that it isn’t quite true. Yeah, he is Indian. But he is also male, straight, and socioeconomically, at least “well off.”
Finally, there was a 12-year-old boy with his dad, front row. It may be a case of me being an old “fuddy-duddy” but the show didn’t seem quite age-appropriate for this kid. Obviously, an issue for dad, but Ansari interacted with him occasionally and I felt a little uncomfortable at times.
11
The fact that his impropriety wasn't technically assault is irrelevant to me. The bottom line: this guy literally wrote the book on modern romantic interaction. And then it came to light that his playbook was just standard-issue frat house pushiness. That's enough to disqualify anything he has to say from my attention span. Next, please.
41
@boourns sounds like your problem is his race and nothing more than that.
4
@dash I happen to share his race, sorry to disappoint. My problem is with anyone in a position of influence who is revealed to be a hypocrite.
14
@boourns It's not that this wasn't "technically assault". It wasn't assault. End of conversation.
I read the article with her description and am 100% a supporter of the me too movement but adding this to the movement sets the movement back.
27
As a person who has struggled to get dates because I have been too gentlemanly, I don't really care for people who force their hand on women. Nor do I care for the waves of apologies. As for myself, I make no apologies for always asking for adult consent, treating women with dignity and going without sex if it is not true.
36
I'm not a fan of Ansari, and I thought his "dating" book was ridiculous.
That said, as a woman of certain age, I simply cannot understand what the hullabaloo about the "expose" on Babe was about. Most dates in my youth were at least like that. It seemed a stretch that his career should be destroyed over an awkward, tone deaf, but overblown incident. I didn't understand the girl's equivocating, and seemingly inability to take responsibility for herself--nor anyone calling her to task for that-- and her own actions somehow being Ansari's fault.
I know that's an unpopular stance that somehow makes me anti-feminist, but so be it. Making these issues purely black and white--you must be either 100 percent for or 100 percent against-- devalues and weakens the broader feminist movement.
281
"Sexual misconduct scandal"
I was not aware that Mr. Ansari had violated any law, rule, or policy regarding sexual behavior. A good journalist would say something like: "accused by a tell-all date of being sexually pushy and boorish". I guess being accurate here doesn't really play into the popular narrative where we sort everyone into simple categories.
136
@Teal I agree with you in substance but one definition of "misconduct" is "improper behavior."
2
@Ezzie
how is consensual sex that ends up being bad "misconduct"?
11
I'm glad he's back. I've enjoyed his work and that babe.net piece was a terrible attack and embarrassing. Looking forward to watching this special.
54
Please. I am so tired of the Time's moral grandstanding. Starstruck girl drinks a lot with celebrity and goes to his room and he acts like and cad and she sheds tears because her girlish dreams are shattered. Shattered!
Stop making this about something else.
101
While I support the metoo movement his treatment makes me no longer “believe her” since, obviously, people lie.
29
@Ak That is an ignorant comment for a number of reasons. First, Ansari never even claimed the girl was lying, from all accounts her story was truthful but what was controversial is that while he seems to have acknowledged he was maybe pushy and has learned from this experience, many people felt it didn't rise to a sexual assault level which the original article seemed to suggest it did.
Secondly is it really news to you that sometimes people lie? Fact is, much more often than not it is those accused of sexual assault who lie, people who come forward with sexual assault allegations rarely are lying because they know how they will be treated and blamed for their own abuse. And if someone does lie about being sexually assaulted it in no way should invalidate real victims, and for you to suggest it should is ridiculous.
7
Dear Aziz, if you're reading these comments I want to tell you your special was awesome. Very smart, very thoughtful, and funny. So happy to see you're performing again.
48
Think what you will about what happened between Ansari and the young women who wrote that Babe.com essay, but in 2019 it seems like a huge red flag for someone to get on stage and act as an apologist for R Kelly.
26
@ALH He was not defending R. Kelly. He was saying that the only reason people finally cared enough to act is that someone made a documentary and put it on a streaming site. That has nothing to do with R. Kelly's conduct, which has always been terrible. It is instead an indictment of the fact that most people only get outraged about something once it can be easily digested or goes viral.
24
@ALH
Don't think that's what he was doing. Did you watch it?
10
Regarding the special, I would just like to point out that the audience is laughing really hard, and we laughed watching on our television. Sometimes I think the goal post in comedy critiques is firmly in drama territory. The show is funny. Not funny because it's true - funny because it's funny.
As far as the bit that we don't want to spoil? That was one of the edgiest things I've ever seen! Jaw-dropping and hilarious!
13
To us fans, Ansari and his pal Hari Kondabolu will always be known as the pair who killed Apu.
To the girls he harassed, he will always be the guy who sexually predated them.
You say ‘saying more would be a spoiler’
Say it away, it’s not like most will care to see this dude.
Thank you, don’t come again.
4
@AutumnLeaf not sure what was predatory about his behaviour.
11
I've been a fan of Ansari for some time, and I followed the story from his accuser closely. I appreciate this review's nuanced take, because I like Ansari but also really wanted him to react in the right way to the accusation. Part of the shock about Ansari's seeming bad behavior was because he is known for being interested in good behavior on dates. It seemed that his private behavior might be a mismatch with his public image, which was upsetting, even if his behavior didn't reach the level of criminality. It's also true that the woman may have legitimately felt disturbed by the evening, even though I felt (as many people did) that her reaction seemed driven by her inexperience and inability to draw boundaries about what she wanted. A simple takeaway would be that people who sleep with someone hours after meeting them inherently run the risk of bad communication, which is one reason to do so with caution.
What I wanted from Ansari was to have him say he was legitimately regretful that he'd hurt someone, while being honest about how that kind of miscommunication could occur. At first, his defensiveness about the internet judgment seemed to miss the mark -- you can legitimately hurt someone without meaning to, and that's all I wanted him to say. I am glad that he's found his voice about it. MeToo was never supposed to be about punishing people forever for every social misdemeanor. If we did that, no one's behavior would be above reproach.
49
@RVC
"MeToo was never supposed to be about punishing people forever for every social misdemeanor. If we did that, no one's behavior would be above reproach."
Right. So broadcasting the details of a personal encounter all over the internet is a really vile thing to do, particularly when the person you are blabbing about is well known. What kind of a person does that? A self-absorbed and cruel person perhaps?
108
I loved Aziz for many years, saw him 3-4 times from the early days... and he's a great person, but this show in May was just plain old not funny
1
Saw Aziz’s stand-up show in DC. I really enjoyed it, especially his musings about his grandmother with Alzheimer’s. I wish he wouldn’t have called his tour “Road to Nowhere, though.” It’s the name of a great Talking Heads song, so now I will always associate it with Aziz Ansari instead of David Byrne.
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@Zareen and you feel the need to share this with New York Times readers because...?
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@Tri: For the same reason you felt the need to ask Zareen your question.
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Aziz's entire monologue seems like a waxed over version of exactly what the audience and world need to hear. It's not outwardly apologetic, but speaks to where we're at in society, in a way likely to meet the audience well.
In reality, he should probably be a bit angry or annoyed at how his whole situation went down. Maybe he feels bad for the date, fair enough, but he should be allowed to be annoyed at the public criticism and over-reaction he received. And be able to talk about that honestly without society condemning that honesty. Instead everyone has to walk on eggshells in their PC reactions. And there is no true honesty in any of these statements.
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@MH
Agree. And if he had expressed himself honestly we would be subjected to a number of "Aziz Ansari Still Doesn't Get It" articles, or, possibly, "Aziz Ansari Just Showed Why . . . " etc. Many would hesitate to agree with him because they've been taught that virtue signaling is better than honest debate and discussion.
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@MH, didn't he express his annoyance when the organic material first hit the ventilating device? I seem to remember he did, in interviews back then.
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I am an old guy who "doesn't get it" on many, many things so I have nothing to add to others' content comments but..
I know when a performance moves things along when they previously were stuck and for that I commend Ansari.
It isn't where he was then or where he is now or even where We were then and where We are now but that there is change and that the movement can generally be seen as progress, messy and chaotic as it comes.
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@Privelege Checked, seems to me that you are actually very wise. Cheers.
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I watched and thought he did a great job of addressing what happened - which in my opinion, after reading the babe.com piece accusing him of....not sexual assault.
As a woman, IMHO what she wrote was NOT SEXUAL ASSUALT. She was disappointed in the date, that's true, her expectations were not met. Expectations can be brutal.
[Un]Fortunately, babe.com is no more and I doubt anyone can read the actual essay now.
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@J
Thank you!
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The fact that he is back on stage and not living out of a shopping cart under an overpass is proof that he has not “addressed” his despicable behavior. That he caused this woman (or any woman) discomfort or unease is a disgusting act of male privilege.
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@From Where I Sit
So, because he was boorish and she had a bad date, he should be homeless and destitute? Do you genuinely consider that to be an appropriate and proportional response?
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Well, I just can't look at his face and think of anything else. I was not going to watch it because of that, but I read the article trying to change my mind. But it did not. I'm simply not going to watch a COMEDY special to think about rape/abuse/(whatever you call it). Maybe this is an overreaction, but my brain remains to look at him and think: he is a jerk trying to play nice. I can't do anything about it.
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@Heitor I thought the same thing when I logged into Netflix and saw a promo for his special, but then realized that if I wanted to have an informed opinion that I should watch it. I have to add that I was not a big Aziz fan before I watched it.
I am glad that I did. IMHO, it is a thoughtful, insightful performance and it opens my mind up to seeing his work again.
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@Heitor Guess you didn't watch Hannah Gadsby in Nanette? It was wonderful but doesn't meet your strict definition of what can, and cannot, be included in someone else's artistic expression.
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@Heitor and @Pam,
Mr. Ansari was not accused of neither rape nor sexual abuse. Please stop spreading misinformation. Maybe you should try reading the article the woman wrote about their date. To sum it up for you, it was a bad date that did not meet her expectations. It is terribly unfair for you to use those terms to describe their encounter.
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So.. the takeaway is that he was never funny and still isn't. Do I have that right?
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@Jonathan --- Not really. He is kind of funny. His stand up was OK with a few belly laugh moments, but mostly just OK at best.
His TV show Master Of None is quite enjoyable. I am hoping he does a Season 3.
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@Jonathan Humor is subjective. Your "never funny" is not necessarily everyone's "not funny."
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@Jonathan, the takeaway is that the critic has mixed feelings about the comedian's stand-up work, for a variety of reasons.
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This is supposed to be about humor, right?
It's confusing because it seems that humor is Verboten, and Ansari trading it for nothing is the only thing that matters to this purported critic, and the whole Woke train wreck crew. There's jubilation at Ansari spending the rest of his life groveling and apologizing because a woman pursued him, they wound up having a bad date and bad sex, and she created a media storm about his being a sexual predator in an exclusive given to the worst online tabloid around. (Which speaks volumes considering how much garbage is online). It succeeded spectacularly in driving Ansari into hiding and damaging the legitimate claims of countless who are actually victims of sexual abuse.
If there's a lesson here it is that there can be no heroes in the left's predatory identity movement as there's always someone hiding around a corner ready to bring anyone down like Ansari who mistakenly thought that his Indian and Muslim decent will somehow insulate him from a movement he quite wrongly thought he was a champion of.
In the end one worthless accusation was enough to destroy Ansari, and this critics and his Woke cohorts think that it's great as they've no use for humor and insist that we all listen to a comic debase himself forever so they can feel good. It's nothing but the Woke's Cultural Revolution and Khmer Rouge style Auto-da-fé. Now that's a laugh.
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This comment is written in English, yet the words don't make sense to a native speaker. "[d]estroy Anzari" and "Netflix special," for example, don't sit side by side comfortably. Nor do "no use for humor" and "Netflix special." Anzari's career is doing fine. His special is favorably reviewed on the Times. What are you on about?
I believe many of us on "the left" -- these days defined as people who don't favor deliberately traumatizing people who ask us for asylum, who are alarmed that air pollution is up 14% since trump took over and forbade scientists from sharing their findings publicly, who believe family picnics are a better way of celebrating our nation's founding than a parade of threatening vehicles that only the hand-selected elite can see -- are involved in far fewer instances of cancel culture than people who throw around nonsense comments about a reddish Khmer.
We aren't the ones who've completely tuned out important voices, such as AOC's, and the entire fact-checked news media, preferring poor quality sites such as Brietbart, Townhall, reddit, and Fox. We're willing to listen and learn.
The idea that you are also able to countenance varying points of view and come to your own conclusions about complex issues? Now that's a laugh.
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@Robert B
How "destroyed" can someone really be if they have a new Netflix special and coverage in the NYT calling said special "his finest work yet"?
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@Robert B Thank you for this. The perfect analysis of everything that is wrong with the Woke movement. No sense of humor and they'd rather just destroy flirting, sex, and fun altogether. It drives me crazy that so many of the other commenters speak of "sexual assault" committed by him when it was nothing of the sort. Even by that woman's terribly written account.
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Jason I think you have been rather unfair Aziz. First off, did you see his opening monologue on SNL the day after Trump's inauguration? It was sensitive, cathartic and very funny. It helped a lot of people process their feelings of fear and anger over the election and was hardly mediocre material.
Second, in light of his new netflix special, his previous monologue (in which he did not specifically address the babe.net article charging him with sexual assault) seems less a "mistake" than an indication that he was taking the necessary time to process his reaction(s) and carefully create a monologue that would communicate what he wanted to say about it in the way he wanted to say it, while also being funny. That's no easy feat.
A 10-minute monologue on the election of Trump is a lot easier to throw together quickly than addressing charges of sexual assault in our current era of trigger-happy political correctness, extreme reactiveness, and non-nuanced & overly simplistic thinking.
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@mw
Well said. I'm not a fan of Aziz's comedy, but I am a fan of Aziz as a person.
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@mw A long comment that still doesn't justify sexual assault and using your power dynamic (fame, money) to use people.
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@Daniel - for the one hundredth time, he did not sexually assault anyone
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I read the accuser's story on that "now defunct" website and it forever changed the way I view the #metoo movement. The "victim," by her own account, was not raped and not assaulted, and she ignored every opportunity to leave the apartment where she had "the worst night of her life." She even faulted him Mr. Ansari for not having the wine she preferred.
Ashleigh Banfield called her out on CNN, and I salute her courage for doing so. This woman "Grace" tried to destroy Mr. Ansari's life over a "bad date." Shame on her, and shame on her for equating a bad date with sexual assault. I had my teenage daughters watch the video, they too were distressed. They have been taught that "No means no," and if someone isn't listening, they have zero interest in your well-being, and to walk out.
I can't fathom the pain experienced by actual victims of true sexual assault when Grace dared to compare her experience with theirs.
Mr. Ansari handled this attack with grace and courtesy, and is to be commended.
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@Factumpactum
True that. She was not assaulted - she had dreams of a "star" romance that were not realized.
The anonymous aspect was also wrong, IMHO.
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@Factumpactum I am a proud feminist and 100% behind the #metoo movement, but I had the same reaction to that essay. A bad date and failure of an adult woman to articulate her own needs/preferences does not sexual assault make, and should not be equated with sexual assault. I thought sullying Ansari's reputation over it was a poor decision. No doubt Ansari has behaved selfishly at times, but at least on that occasion, his behavior was not bad enough to warrant putting him through the public opinion wringer.
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@Factumpactum I once taught a course in Business Ethics at a local college. One of the issues we addressed in the course was sexual harassment. I was frankly stunned to hear that my students had a radically extended notion of what sexual harassment was. Ultimately I asked them if they thought that being asked out by someone who you did not find desireable was in and of itself sexual harassment. I was then floored to hear several students say that it was. I don't know if people realize that expanding the notion of sexual harassment in this fashion weakens the force and significance of what the real violation means. The Ansari incident was so absurd that it seriously damaged the MeToo movement for many who were sympathetic when it was actually addressed to real violators.
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i watched this show, and it was a shame fest. Ansari started out explaining how ashamed he was at what he did, then spent the next hour shaming the audience, even to the point of contriving stories in order to shame the audience. Frankly, I came away with the feeling that Ansari was less ashamed than bitter, using humor to mask the resentment.
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@steven smith
Clearly, we did not see the same show.
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I saw Aziz Anasazi the day before Father’s Day at Radio City. I thought he was brilliant. The show opened with him introducing a friend who had asked if h could perform some of his own material. He brought his Dad on stage. Who made the show seem extra special. That and the kid in the front row.
I felt he opened up and told us about what happened during a very dark and scary time in his life. I didn’t really appreciate how much comedy was his life.
I really loved the whole show and can’t imagine anyone falling asleep. I thought it was his best show yet.
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So, Aziz Ansari comes across as groveling, begging our forgiveness for his horrible bad-date sin. And Louis CK comes out defiant, mocking the controversy over his actions and attempting to just move on.
it should be the opposite, no?
Louis CK is not a rapist, but his actions were pretty bad. i don't want to live in a world where men can just masturbate in front of women (or anyone) without genuine consent and not face consequences. He should have been more apologetic.
While Ansari? He was kind of a jerk that one time. Who hasn't been? And when I say that, I mean women, too. It's fine for him to be a little apologetic, but the real crime here was the over-the-top overreaction, and it would have been nice to see Ansari stand up to them a little bit.
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@MA IMHO, he was not over the top. I was reticent to watch this, but am glad that I did. My view of Aziz has changed for the better.
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@MA Whether Ansari was "kind of a jerk" on that date is not the point. That revenge porn hit-piece against him should not have been published. Its obvious aim was to humiliate him for transgressions including not serving the desired wine and the way he paid the check at dinner.
If he was "kind of a jerk" the entitled accuser was a full-on harpy for going public about events that he had a right to assume were private. He was the bigger victim.
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@Pam - Nobody said he was
“Over the top”. Read MA’s comment again before you chime in.
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"“You think your opinion’s so valuable you need to chime in” on stuff that doesn’t even exist? he demands, pivoting to a more general point about many people debating online: “They don’t really care about learning and exploring and discussing. They just want to chime in with their little programmed reactions.”
KO
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Overrated performer.
Philosopher, nah!
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@justice Just because you don't relate does not make it unrelatable.
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@justice
“They don’t really care about learning and exploring and discussing. They just want to chime in with their little programmed reactions.”
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Seriously, Mr. Zinoman? "In his Netflix special, he rectifies that mistake with his finest work yet." That mistake was someone in the public eye not addressing an accusation of sexual assault.
Someone in the public eye NOT addressing an accusation of sexual assault? "Rectifying" that mistake means he's simply reacting to what the audience wants to save his own skin, and that's not art. That's commerce. P.S. "...his finest work yet." The bar is set pretty low then. Mr. Ansari is nothing exceptional.
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@Hugh MacDonald - He didn't assault anyone. A woman who used his name while withholding her own whined about the fact that he couldn't read her mind and she didn't bother to speak up about what she wanted in bed.
As a woman, I bitterly resent this type of immature and irresponsible behavior. It takes away attention from victims of actual assault.
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@Hugh MacDonald it was not sexual assault. She did not even accuse him of that. It was bad sex that is really none of our business.
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@DR
True that - thank you, from a woman who shares this opinion.
I'm very glad that Me Too has made it easier for women to speak up and not be victims. "Grace" was not helpful to the movement.
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I saw the show live - went to a 10:30. I had a long day... and, I'll admit- I fell asleep mid-performance. Ashamed, I ran into a couple of friends after the show and mentioned what happened. One of them fell asleep too. It was like watching your once-hyperactive little brother on some really strong sedative meds. At least I can watch what I missed on Netflix!
I appreciated his introspection, it certainly seemed genuine. Interesting that it was added for the taped special but not previous shows... But overall, from what I was awake to hear, I wouldn't call it his best material. His opener was pretty funny, though he probably isn't on the special.
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