The reason we have this disaster at the border is due to Republicans like Mitch McConnell and Steven Miller as well as Trump who are using this mess as a political ploy. McConnell refuses to bring bills to the floor to rectify the situation.
There is no right and left there is ONLY the right to blame for this deplorable condition.
59
America is in a cold civil war, obviously. Conservatives grasp that the benefit of being at war is that "all is fair." They can justify anything that puts them closer to destroying their enemies, since their god is guiding them and wants them to win no matter what they have to do, because "saving unborn babies," etc.
25
Trump's one strength is supposed to be his ability to successfully run a complex business operation. If this current situation is an example of his organizational and managerial skills, it's time to delcare bankruptcy, again.
30
Fortunately, the "open borders now!" immigration policies of most Democratic nominee are DOA at the electorate.
Unfortunately, that may mean Mr. Trump is re-elected with what he will surely treat as resounding vindication, confirmation and mandate.
Disastrously, these same idiotic policies that may re-elect Trump will likely keep the Senate in Republican hands, and may lose the House as well.
I know the Democratic candidates love playing to their narrow partisan echo chambers. It is disgraceful that they will do so to the detriment of the nation. Did I say disgraceful? No, far worse; it's "Trumpian"
45
You might get further, Mr. Douthat, in reaching out to those of us who are not conservatives if you would quit the name-calling. Both you and Hugh Hewitt, in today's Washington Post, and others in the conservative pundit class, keep calling anyone who is to the left of center "elites." The word means "a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society" but the right has turned it into a pejorative, although I am not quite sure how being of superior ability is a flaw. In any event, you do not mean it as a compliment.
59
When the Trump administration instituted their cruel policy they had no good plan on how to manage it -totally unprepared to deal with the influx and they still are making mess of it. They couldn't even keep track of the children (UPS can do it) and they can't provide for basic needs. This is horrifying enough, but that they are unfazed by the results of the policy is truly sickening. Then there is the emotional abuse of keeping children caged and away from their parents. Perhaps if they thought of the people as asylum seekers rather than "illegals" they could have more compassion? ?? Per Trump we are a "Christen nation" but seems like the Ten Commandments are no longer important.
So - what would Jesus do?
16
the borders must be sealed. then a system must be in place to allow people to apply for legal entry, either as immigrants or temporary workers.
42
Missing from your insights is the entire tradition of American nativism. We are reprising the era of 1924, which saw the rise of the nationwide Ku Klux Klan and the most racist national immigration act in our history.
What is happening today is a recrudescence of nativism in its ugliest, most cruel form. Taking from the countries any help we can give them to improve their breaking societies that force families and children to emigrate is proof of the Trumpists' motivation to reject those who do not conform to their white, elitist, racist ideal.
It is a basically Christian mandate to reject this horrific policy and to close those camps, beef up immigration judges, and swiftly process refugees seeking asylum according to U.S. law. Now. No excuses.
21
All those who oppose open borders (including Marco Rubio) should remember that we had them for Cubans; it was called "wet foot, dry foot." Any Cuban immigrant who set foot in the U. S. was allowed to stay. But of course, Republicans, that was then, and this is now.
And the horrific conditions in Central America were caused by many years of American foreign policy, not by Fidel Castro, so of course we have no responsibility for the desperate seekers of asylum from Central America. Oh wait...
30
"For this cycle to break.......you would need fraternal correction to happen". I submit that perhaps what we need is a "maternal" correction. The misogynistic christian theology and the overwhelmingly white, male legislatures seem unable to find sympathy, caring, concern for humanity beyond their own creeds and greeds.
18
I didn't bother to read past the "elite." There is nothing elite about the Democratic party. Its Trump who lives on 5th Avenue and uses golden toilets.
42
I want two things on immigration policy. I'm unlikely to get either.
One, crack down on employers, especially large companies, that knowingly employ undocumented workers on a large scale.
Two, help the failing (failed?) Central American states from which the current wave is mostly coming, in the grip of corrupt governments and criminal gangs. Even if we welcome every Guatemalan who has crossed the border so far, millions more will still come--and those states will still be failing.
32
Russ, please specifically define your term "elite". You lose readers by the 2nd paragraph. I am in favor of immigration, I have worked with immigrants on the ground (inspecting their work), and I suspect I am far from your definition of "elite".
When you use elite to imply "other" or "out of touch" to whom are you referring? I read in this paper, statistically speaking, a majority of Americans favor immigration, in the 70% region. I suggest the backlash you refer to is more accurately racism and scarcity thinking by low income people, who once knew a middle class living but due to export of manufacturing and other jobs not requiring a college education, they have lost in this economy. These very people are struggling from paycheck to paycheck. The "booming" economy is benefitting the well-to-do only. Wages remain stagnant, or in the cases above, falling. These folks believe they are competing with our immigrants for jobs and it's a scary world.
How is it we can so conveniently forget where we come from (read: immigrants)? The most recent comprehensive immigration bill died in congress in 2013 at the blockade of the GOP. Don't get me started on the "christian conservative" or "evangelical" hypocrites within the Republican Party. Finally, the "American right" you refer to is another oxymoron as they are neither.
25
Sealing the border would be brutal. Throwing it open would invite a flood. So what are you going to do? This is why the US has had an ambiguous undeclared policy of semi-open borders for the last 50 years. It is the path of least resistance for politicians. And controversial as immigration now is, it will continue to be the preferred option for decades to come. The US cannot control its border with Mexico.
12
I rarely agree with Ross but I have to admit that I agree with his outline of the history of our recent immigration problems. I am not quite sure about his conclusion. We have had an opportunity as a nation to come up with comprehensive immigration reform since GW Bush and either have failed or ignored it. We now have a crisis in the hands of an incompetent and immoral trump and an indifferent and immoral Mitch McConnell and a stacked SCOTUS. Even with a Democratic president and a Democratic House the obstacle of McConnell doesn't go away. It is imperative that we remove McConnell from office so that not only we can deal with immigration but all of the other issues that he is stonewalling until he builds his conservative dominance of our court system.
14
We all know that the triangle countries need the equivalent of a Marshall Plan to improve the economy, safety, and quality of life in those countries. They can’t do it alone. But Trump has cut or stopped aid to those countries, which has put even more pressure on the people to leave. If America doesn’t start with a Marshall Plan, every solution will amount to more wasted money, more
destitute people willing to try anything to have a decent life.
11
I wish the Dems could start chipping away at this issue, rather than keep trying & failing to do it all in one gulp. Even if they couldn't pass the smaller bills, they'd have them as evidence for what Democrats care about. Here's my list of bills that would begin to help:
1. E-verify, with big fines or jail time for employers who try to evade it.
2. Mandatory minimum wages for everyone who applies for these jobs. Say $15/hour?
3. A national clearinghouse for such jobs, with a 3 month preferential window given on all jobs to US citizens. i.e., stop telling us that "Americans wouldn't take these jobs." Maybe they would, if given a livable wage? If the jobs went instead to Americans, this would quiet the complaint that immigrants steal jobs from Americans. If the jobs couldn't be filled, this would prove we need more incoming workers.
4. Very strict, but easily obtainable guest worker passes for 3 or 6 months. Only renewable for those who abide by the rules to re-apply. (Two year penalty--not a forever penalty--if the immigrant tries to stay past his visa illegally, then he can apply again.) A lot of immigrants love their own countries, but their families back home need $. Letting them earn it & leave would take pressure off the border. Would help the farmers, etc, who need workers.
5. A Marshal Plan for Central America. Climate change is coming & then what a mess our border will be!
6. Amnesty for the dreamers.
Let's be tough, but show our hearts.
29
The problem with either tribe self correcting is that at this point we're all so repulsed by the other side that we're totally willing to sign onto whatever folly or cruelty they may call for, even if it goes against our own judgment or instincts. As for myself, I'm happy with the way the Obama administration was performing this, and only regret that it was not more legislatively successful. But if supporting the team (which I believe means rejecting Biden) requires signing onto folly, then folly it is.
4
Mr. Douthat gets it right. There is plenty of blame to be heaped on both sides. What I would add to this is neither side has been bothering to enforce the law when it comes to companies that hire illegal workers. The incentive to cross the border in search of work is provided by American businesses. E-Verify is a joke, it isn't enforced, and the fines for violating it are so small businesses would rather take the risk than hire American. Nobody on either side of the aisle dares mess with Profit.
20
Though Douthat never exhibits traces of racism himself, he is quite willing to overlook the Republicans' bigotry in a facile bid to provide an easy out for the GOP.
Your mess would be a lot less complicated if GOP racism was a non factor. Alas, that is not the case.
11
The truth is sometimes inconvenient but sometimes it is downright nasty. America's fertility rate means millions of people will be needed to take care of our elderly and millions more will be needed to fill the jobs of the future.
America will need between 30 million and 50 million new Americans in the next 25 years. The millions seeking refuge and opportunity today are a drop in the bucket and are not a danger but an opportunity for America to do not only the correct thing but the most selfish and self rewarding thing.
If America would know the facts it would open its Southern borders and take in all the refugees it can handle and teach them the skills they will need in the 21st century and teach them to be Americans.
The would be refugees understand how much they are needed, too bad Americans are so clueless. In Canada we are already number one in accepting refugees and because our fertility rate is too low to sustain our population we will accept 1% of our population as new Canadians every year.
Sadly we are mathematically illiterate and we don't realize there will nobody left in central America before Trump finishes his second term if America took in just the new Americans it is going to need.
9
Border between the U.S. and Canada is OK. But why is the border between the U.S. and Mexico not OK?
These immigrants come to the U.S. primarily to escape problems in their native countries (Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama) which includes a stagnant economy, high levels of crime, political corruption and widespread drug use. There is a legal way to request a green card to enter the U.S., however unlawful mobs entry is not allowed. Shame and disgrace of all these central American countries and their governments who fail to feed their people, to give them medical care, good housing, and jobs. These central American countries and their governments are the ones at fault.
Sorry that your country does not love you anymore. To find true love you need to find and walk on God’s Holy road which will one day open the gate to His Kingdom in Heaven. The road you are currently walking is man made and will only bring you tears and despair, darkness and regrets.
1
There is no excuse for the treatment children are getting at the border. NONE. That’s a disgrace every American carries. No need to rehash the importance of voting.
Religious conservatives are morally and ethically bankrupt. Not much more needs to be said there.
As for the Left, it’s time to come clean on this whole thing. Once people from these 3rd world pseudo countries get here, after risking life, they are not going back. It doesn’t matter if the judge rejects the asylum case or the temporary crisis is abated, the economics of those failed states makes a return impossible. Unless by force.
So, America has two choices. One is to prepare and accept to integrate most of the 30 million that live in those failed nations or annex those countries into the USA, like Puerto Rico, and grant full citizenship. Either way, this will cost Americans trillions of dollars. It was Our incompetence that has brought us here.
Central American elites and upper classes are among the most ruthless in the world. Devoid of basic humanity and competence, they do not have the ability to help the Mayan Indigenous who are fleeing. They are too corrupt and indifferent. Aid won’t work
America helped break those countries due to the poor policies of Eisenhower and Reagan. Hilary Clinton supported the 2009 Honduran coup of a progressive leader and Trump, despite his rhetoric, backs the ruthless ruling class of Honduras.
America broke it. If we are a moral people, Now we own it. Time to pay up.
4
Here’s an idea. Go back to the 1986 immigration reform and pick up from there. We were told that in exchange for a realistic and humane one-time only amnesty, there would be border walls where necessary, an easy employment verification system and strict enforcement of all three. Somehow the amnesty took place, the balance of the compromise never came to be and we are discussing amnesty once again.
33
Yes, I agree that proponents on both sides of the immigration issue must act quickly to make this situation more humane, and yes I agree that Democrats must find a way to present their policies on this subject in a fashion that is palatable to voters. But ALL policies on EVERY issue won't matter in the upcoming election because the REPUBLICANS CHEAT! Furthermore they know they can't win if they don't cheat. Evidence of this is clear: the recent pro-gerrymandering vote of the conservative-majority supreme court, the open invitation of the president to the Russians to interfere again in our elections, the suppression of minority voter registration... the list goes on. Why aren't there more articles about this subject?
3
The problem lies entirely with the Left Wing. They have to recognize that we (the people) have a right to say how many and who comes into our country, not the people wanting to come in. This is in fact how Ellis Island worked ... many many
people were rejected. And they were rejected arbiotrarily, with no appeal ... we can and must reimplemnt that.
We need to recognize that we must arbitrarily eject, with nop appeal, people who cross the border illegally, not at
established points.
That done, we can then worry about ejecting a goodly number of present illegal immigrants, and letting others, such as "dreamers" stay. This can be negotiated if, in some sort of miracle, the Democrats would agree to actually negotiate.
21
"This is where the president’s religious supporters should be intervening, should be applying moral pressure, should be working to prove that the immigration restrictions they support can be implemented in accord with basic Christian principles. At the moment their efforts are meager, and that proof does not exist." - Evangelical fundamentalists are driven by their ingroup and out group dualism - Christ is never here in neighbor/stranger....but AWOL waiting for their nasty apocalyptic destruction. As sick as it may seem to the rest of us, this is why they love Trump.
As for Joe Biden - give him credit for mentioning that it was this administration cutting funding to Central America that has exasperated the situation in Central America enhancing caravans to our border. Then this administration used it as an opportunity for psychological torture of separating parents from their children and caging them like animals. It is diabolically criminal. Speaking as a Lutheran - Luther called for just governments (not merely the charity of churches) to care for people. We should be addressing the situation in Central America so that their citizens do not need to flee for their lives. This is what good government would do. Obviously, we'll need to elect such leaders.
6
Good luck waiting for the religious right to suddenly grow a conscience. They have already checked their principles at the door of the White House. Where is the Rep. led Senate? Out to profit on the bodies of 5 month-olds. Give it up, Ross. The GOP made this mess. They own it.
9
Who are the "elites" that Mr. Douthat pits against the "public"? And, who is the "public" that defends America against the "elite"?
I've seen this movie before...
6
@HapinOregon
Yes and the ending is a horror!!!
There is no folly when we were exploiting immigrants to put up our drywall, pick our crops, or watch our kids. Douthat would have us believe Americans have never benefited from migrant labor. Absurd.
8
The argument that both sides need to move to the middle on immigration is a facile and false equivalence. The administration's assault on decency, and its willingness to sacrifice human rights for electoral edge, profanes our most foundational values.
In contrast, the suggestion that we decriminalize migration is actually quite conservative. For most of the 20th century, crossing our borders without documentation was a civil, not a criminal, infraction -- and was adjudicated through immigration court. Today, immigration matters bloat and burden the federal court system, which was not created for this purpose.
Arresting asylum seekers and incarcerating families with children -- or worse separating them from one another -- violates the international norms -- and the treaties -- which bind the civilized world to common notions about the value of human life. We violate this, and simultaneously claim we value the rule of law.
What's more, encouraging immigration fosters the maintenance -- not the rupture -- of American tradition. It is an indelible part of our story that, with each generation, future Americans will arrive with the understanding that if they work diligently their full lives, their children will have the opportunity to thrive.
We need to boost legal pathways to immigration, and give border crossers the benefit of a fair hearing. We should also acknowledge that e-verify will never work because we need these people and are made better by them.
5
This is so much more thoughtful, historical, and realistic than the original price. Ross just points out others flaws and inconsistencies without any offering solutions.
1
Mass immigration made some kind of sense--cruel but logical--when America was industrializing. Now that we have exported sweatshops to SE Asia, essentially open borders are borderline nuts. If Mr. Douthat thinks there is some way that the evangelicals can find a middle-ground on this--well, good luck. These late-game Christians, busily monetizing what's left of the desert rabbi's teachings (often contradictory, but that's another story) are only interested in their fellow humans as marketing targets.
10
Douthat’s framing doesn’t make sense here. He claims that we are vacillating between a perceived “open door” to immigration and cruel crackdowns on migrants. He contradicts this notion when he points out several times that Obama himself was tough on immigration. The purpose of this flawed frame seems to be to make statements like “close the camps” sound radical and ridiculous, a reactionary lurch to the left. However, this is just wrong. Locking these people up in internment camps should not “feel” normal to us. There is no need to lock asylum seekers up like criminals because releasing them with community supervision or ankle bracelets has been effective in the past. Douthat’s column seems meant to prevent, rather than provoke, thought in the reader.
6
You are right that we are hearing and seeing nothing but the case for cruelty and the case for no borders or boundaries whatsoever. The cruel drama actually playing out on our southern border has led many Democrats to compete with one another for the most generous but completely unsustainable solutions.
We need a border with disciplined boundaries, but a humane approach.
You are right to urge the Christian Right to step up. But you also missed a real opportunity to highlight the work of the Christian and Jewish humanitarian work at the border.
The Catholic Church in particular has
done a lot to help people there without judging or dehumanizing them. A lot of those are what you might call Catholic Workers - which may be more ‘liberal’ than you’d like to think of Christians as being.
3
It’ll be a cold, cold day in Hades when Trump’s evangelical supporters develop a flicker of compassion for anybody who’s not them.
10
@Robert
That's been my experiences with the folk who claim to be religious. They preach one thing and behave the opposite I also find it mind-boggling that so many of these folk are convinced they are saved and know the mind of G-d.
I believe that G-d has stated that judgment and vengeance are G-d's and only for G-d.
3
“Elite consensus on immigration”? Are the huge numbers of Latin American families legally in the USA who would like to have their close relatives with them here part of the so called elite? What about elite coastal rich republicans? There are lots of them, surprise! Are they part of the elite consensus?! I’m tired of swallowing this dumb right wing branding. What’s worse, “elite” is code for Jews and the LGBTQ communities. Stop it!
4
I do believe that Evangelism has been invaded by the satanic. Somehow, their piety has allowed them to accept cruelty, even the remarkably cruel treatment of defenseless children, to delight the heart and soul of Satan himself. Evangelists have countenanced all manner of evil quite astonishingly since trump has gained power, and probably the main reason is their stance on abortion. If they can advance a complete government takeover of women's private parts, they will accept any means towards that end.
5
@J.Sutton
And that's terrifying!!!
1
While I agree that House Democrats did the right thing in voting for the Senate bill, this wasn’t as much a rejection of their left flank as it was a pragmatic vote. While most of the House Democrats would have preferred the House bill, they settled for half a loaf instead of no loaf.
Where I really diverged from the author of this column was his assertion that many migrants are reckless in bringing their children here. Migrants who come here seeking safety, freedom, and extreme poverty and hunger would be reckless to stay where they are. What parent would subject their children to a life facing death and starvation?
4
@Susan Piper
Most parents will not abandon their children natural or adopted or even those they volunteer to raise.
2
The most effective way to stop illegal immigrations is to cut off the source of the demand - police and enforce employers to keep them from hiring illegal immigrants. Republicans will never do that - why? Can we just start pointing out to the Republican base that it is their own leadership (including trump - who has a long history of emptying illegal immigrants) are the ones who don't really want a solution?
9
This column fails to note several important points leading Mr. Douthat to place equal blame on both left and right for our current immigration situation.
First, Douthat misses the point that republicans have had dominant control of the legislative process for the last several years. And now, with Democrats in control of just the House, they can pass great bills only to die in the Senate.
Second, The column never mentions the racism of Trump, much of his base and the racist Stephen Miller as his immigration czar. Racism drove Trump rallies and Douthat should never forget that it produced a systematic cruelty at the border; never seen in the Obama years.
Third, Democrats were critical of Obama for deportations but they were done with due process and a respect for the law; far different than Trump’s threats to conduct sweeping raids with little regard for civil and human rights.
False equivalence will do nothing to locate a just solution to problems at the border.
909
@JT FLORIDA
Fourth, when the Administration closes legal ports of entry, it is inevitable that desperate refugees will enter wherever they can, often at great peril, and will then be labeled “illegal.”
Fifth, when children are separated from their non-parent, family-member adults (such as aunts) who protected them during their hazardous journeys, they are now labeled “unaccompanied children.”
And sixth, reducing or eliminating funding and other efforts to aid the countries from which these refugees are fleeing perpetuate the problems.
135
@JT FLORIDA
Thank you JT for a clearly written rebuke of Douthat’s false equivalence game, as well as the racism running through The Republican’s nationalist movement.
70
@JT FLORIDA bravo! Very well said sir.
36
How about a Marshall Plan for central america. Our past actions and policies have directly created the misery these asylum seekers are trying to escape. It is a 3 part story.
We have laid waste to these countries attempt to reform feudal system of land ownership, destroying democratic reform movements by backing reactionary gangsters who pursued any of the educated civic minded with death squads.
This created a vacuum filled by criminal enterprises who currently hold sway and are fed by the second part of the story. Our consumption of illegal drugs which has provided these thugs with the funding that perpetuates there influence. This is the source of the existential crisis forcing asylum seekers risking there lives and the lives of there children.
Finally, and equally as damaging is that our farm subsidies have allowed the export of cheap corn and grain. This destroyed these mainly agrarian economies displacing millions.
We are experiencing blowback from our actions. I would love to hear any of our elected leaders and those seeking election speak to this past.
7
Cruelty is the point and it persists because both GOP and DFL are Christian. It's similar to most of our legal system which is really a Christian punishment system. Justice is of little use because it requires a connection to fact. No, it is better to have an irrational fear system to keep the sheep in line. The sheep though, love it. They prefer to be held on a chain of their very own rather than face the consequences of their own failed decision making processes. Harsh is good for them. Freedom would only see them destroy themselves as well as others. If that happens they then have to face their real selves who in fact are monsters.
The people want this cruelty to happen. Pundits whose loyalties lie with political parties both left and right make no effort at true enlightenment on the issue because they themselves are typical blind to reality. I suspect for many too, it is quite a good joke as well to make people believe nonsense, much like priests and holy men.
2
Let us not forget that Republicans have been forbidden to even discuss immigration reform in Congress for over a decade! When obstructionists abandon all pretense of doing their job, someone else must do it!
7
Polarization will continue as long opinions like yours are tempered with bias, misstatements & misrepresentation of facts, US immigration laws & an overall narrative of propaganda that feeds discourse. This is not just cruelty here. It is unabashed, illegal, criminal, child abuse for which any parent would be arrested. Trump, Steve Miller, Nielsen, Sessions & the Administration must face legal consequences for these criminal child abuse acts . An impotent Republican Congress & now Senate is & was incapable of creating immigration policy to meet 21st century demands. Opinions cannot ignore historical context nor existing laws. Crossing the border at other than a designated border crossing is a misdemeanor, not criminal, payable with a fine and possibly short detention. Laws require the processing of children withing 3 days and detention no longer then 20 days with families. Children should never be separated from their parents and families. This is child abuse. Trump created this illegal policy & Judges have ordered an injunction to stop this. Trump ignores & breaks all laws: Child Abuse Laws, Immigration Laws, the Flores Act, as well any form of human decency. He is lawless & amoral, dangerous & unfit. Unable to comprehend when the Supreme Court says no. Now he should turn to his conservative religious supporters for moral and ethical guidelines? I suppose that might include Mike Pence? The silence of the hypocrites speaks louder than words and policy.
2
Out here, we just passed legislation granting full MediCal privileges to illegal immigrants under the age of 26. The cost estimate for this largesse failed to address the "magnet" phenomenon, i.e., how many tens of thousands of Central Americans will be incentivized to come to California?
Both sides must declare a cease fire...And it's not going to happen. Dig fox hole deeper.
8
The real reform we need is to change our asylum laws back to protecting only the people they were meant to protect: those fleeing Nazi levels of government persecution.
Simply living in a badly run, gang-filled country or having an abusive husband should no longer qualify you even to get a hearing. Such people should simply but kindly be put on transportation back to their country of origin.
That would quickly stop people from dragging small children across dangerous terrain. Then secure the border so sneaking in is much harder and start tracking and deporting visa overstays.
10
Our son is in the Special Forces. He served several tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan as an Army Ranger. He was in the group that was sent in to retrieve the Navy Seal featured in the film Lone Survivor, landing in a helicopter knowing that the previous group of Rangers who landed in a helicopter were all killed by a missile. He spent three days searching for that guy, WITH A BROKEN ARM.
Now he is married to a delightful, intelligent, college-educated and talented Russian woman whose application for an tourist Visa to get married was declined. That Visa was declined over 6 months ago, and now she is in a long, complicated process of trying to get an immigrant Visa, so she can live here with her husband.
Delays, delays. But they are motivated, so they will just keep going through the process, and have to spend much time apart.
And this is how it works even for someone who has repeatedly risked his life to protect our country.
The rest of the world uses legal processes, cumbersome and nutty as they sometimes are, to get here and live here.
But people who live close to our border can just jump across, and many far-leftists want them to just stay here, be citizens, get free health care, etc.
We absolutely have to adhere to an orderly process for immigration. As much as we want our daughter-in-law here, we don't find fault with the process. We find fault with those who advocate a free-for-all in terms of immigration, as the far-leftists do.
15
Unfortunately, it seems like every reasonable idea has its detractors who ultimately become the wrench in the gears. It appears that to much weight is given to false equivalencies that in turn leads to zero progress on solutions. There is a huge need for presidential leadership, but currently instead of guidance & insight we are getting chaos & turmoil. Certainly, the case can be made that Trump is easily manipulated by others, whose agenda benefits from the ongoing muddled situation. It’s time to forget ideas from politicians and move to a task force of business leaders for plans, strategies, & solutions. Sort of a send it to binding arbitration solution.
1
As a Progressive Democrat, it pains me to have to agree with Mr. Douthat. My party’s solution to the immigration problem is folly. These follies include granting illegal immigrants health and other government benefits and uncontrolled borders. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants, myself included, but no country can afford these follies. And I don’t want to label what the Republicans’ policies are, lest I might be accused of saying something unbecoming.
Something, however, strikes me as unsettling in Mr. Douthat’s solutions. Democratic moderates should act as a brake to our follies, but only Christian Republicans can speak against their party’s cruelty? Is Mr. Douthat implying that there just aren’t any Republican moderates anymore? Is Jesus the only one who can influence your party, Mr. Douthat?
9
@DJ
Would Jesus Christ even recognize these folk as people who claim to be Christians? I think not...
2
Even given the cruel and inhumane treatment these immigrants are receiving at our hands, they still come here because the conditions they were living in were even worse. Ponder that for one moment. We need to go back to the policies under the Obama administration which were fair and humane. Democrats cannot solve this crisis alone, they do not have the power. For two years Republicans did, but chose not to address the situation.
However anyone feels about the immigration problem, it is shocking to me that cruel behavior, especially toward children, is not only being tolerated by Republicans as witnessed by their silence, but encouraged by their lack of response to the crisis at the border. They have chosen to politicize the issue.
In all fairness, we cannot have a complete open door policy, but true asylum seekers need to be given refuge. Undocumented children who came to this country with parents years ago should be given a path to citizenship and their parents allowed to stay here. Undocumented men and women who have served in the military should be given a path to citizenship and their families allowed to stay here. Under all circumstances immigrant families arriving here should be kept together no matter whether or not they qualify to stay. All those coming across our borders, no matter the reason, should be treated with decency and respect and given adequate basic human necessities, not treated with contempt and the lack of compassion this administration has shown.
5
@Diana
Whatever conditions you consider “cruel and inhumane”, migrants caught crossing the border illegally underwent the EXACT same conditions. Nothing has changed.
4
@NYCSurgical
*under Obama
3
@NYCSurgical
A lot has changed. Trump's Zero Tolerance policy is a humanitarian disaster. We should, at the very least, go back to Obama's policy--and continue working for overall immigration reform. The Wikipedia timeline about "Trump administration family separation policy" presents a very clear view of the differences between Obama's and Trump's policies.
1
What no one talks about concerning the immigration debate is that even if we were to achieve a policy that everyone could live with, it won’t address the root cause of the problem.
The reality is that these people are less “immigrants” and more “refugees.” They are going to keep coming. And this is a global phenomenon, not just a Mexican-American one. Lack of sufficient resources to support increasing populations, a reality exacerbated by climate change, will continue to force people to seek resources elsewhere. Water reservoirs are drying up; crops are wilting. The desperate search for life sustaining resources also plays out in violent ways in countries with weak governments where gangs and autocrats vie for power and control of resources – triggering yet another motive for people to flee.
This is the reality of global change, and we are only fooling ourselves if we think that we can create a magic fix for the problem. Whatever we come up with will be, at best, a short-term band-aid for a global problem of increasing population and available resources. A long-term view demands a Malthusian framework.
Otherwise, the world will eventually face the stark reality of millions of desperate, hungry people knocking at the doors of wealthy counties who then have to decide who gets to live, and who gets to die. And who makes that decision?
14
Can we break out of this cycle? No. The Republican Party fueled by their complicit propaganda outlets sell vicious and baldfaced lies to their gullible followers strictly for political gain. And the craven Democrats are too afraid of their own shadows to speak the real facts. Meanwhile the oligarchy own both to a varying degree, profiting from the chaos in the system that allows them to employ desperate people at sub-minimum wages in ghastly working conditions. Meanwhile they spend millions to stir up the untutored masses in order to vilify the actual victims, the migrants.
6
I find it ironic and pathetic actually that the right constantly denigrates immigrants and then goes on about how native-born people can’t compete with them. Is it because they are too soft, too lazy or just too doped out? Sad!
8
Your plea that religious conservatives confront trump on his “moral responsibility” is laughable, given their universal ability to completely ignore his well documented lifelong amorality, lies, frauds and debaucheries.
12
Bullies are the same everywhere. They grab power by demeaning powerless people. The cowards that back them up, hope to bask in the attention that their cruelty generates. Every autocrat has a personal victim, whether it's the kid in the playground with a speech impediment or the unfortunate Jews who happened to be in Nazi Germany in the 1930s. Trump's victims are the terrified refugees of climate change and our own illicit drug industry who have inadvertently played into his hands while attempting to save their families. Trump's goal is not to stop the flow of migrants but to use the power of hatred to give himself political influence. He will use that power to fill his own pockets and to ingratiate himself with the Russians and Saudis. His ultimate goal is to enrich himself from the steady impoverishment of working Americans through low pay, rising health costs, environmental destruction, and Wall Street theft. Many of them are the same suckers that have fallen for his lies and tricks already. As Mayor Di Blasio said at the debate, the immigrants are not our enemy. Trump is, along with his supporters and sycophants who are all now implicated in his thefts and treason.
8
I would like to see public schools opened and utilized for housing, feeding, educating, and providing athletics to the children and adults now imprisoned behind razor wire.
Our federal government has the money to provide all those things this summer vacation our students are enjoying, probably at less cost than flyovers for narcissistic conceited leaders.
let's face facts, America isn't quite America without 'Legal' immigrants. however. it appears that Congress can't decide on who or how many get to enter for the opportunity to become an American citizen and Neo-liberals like AOC and friends just want to just write the rules themselves and to hell with everyone else's views. Our Congress seems to represent our own divisions and that's why this mess will remain a political issue for the next election cycle and beyond.
3
Both sides would rather fix the blame than fix the problem.
We need to get more immigration courts operating under expedited rules of procedure, more judges who are less tolerant of delaying tactics, and much better conditions in the detention centers for those awaiting trial.
We need to go after those companies and individuals who hire those in the country illegally. Remove the jobs and the incentives to cross over are lessened.
We need Congress to pass laws putting all these into effect, so as to get away from the rule by royal fiat mindset of the more recent presidents.
Some of these would offend the left; some the right; all of them would, I suspect, be embraced by the majority of the American people.
9
this language--elitism, populism, liberalism, conservatism, beltway etc. has become meaningless. Farms and factories need these immigrants, elitism means that only mayflower descendants deserve a place at the table.
Let's try to evolve and deal with reality, shall we? Why are people migrating? Could our nation have some responsibility for what these people are fleeing? What values do we hold? What does that mean for our economic growth?
Our US turf is blowing away in the overtired winds. It's time for our leaders -- and our writers -- to lead us to a new way of relations. To others, to ourselves.
4
And language about values and responsibility and guilt also gets us no closer to a solution.
As for the economy, if farms and factories need migrants let the owners lobby for a higher number of allowable legal workers. It doesn’t justify an unlimited uncontrolled entry of illegals.
3
Pundits and experts fail to grasp one overarching fact.
Unregulated immigration is unaffected by policy.
Trying to devise policies that will precisely regulate and manage the human tide is much like declaring times for sunrise and sunset.
In 1983, there were a little more than two million undocumented immigrants in the U.S.
In the following years, Washington tried an amnesty and a dramatic ramping up of border policing. This included such efforts as Operation Gatekeeper, Operation Hold the Line and such. A great deal of new technology was deployed to create an "electronic fence." Interior apprehensions were vastly increased.
In 2005, there were about 10,000 Border Patrol agents on the Mexican border. Today there are a little more than 19,000. That should have had an impact.
So, what happened to the undocumented population since 1983? It shot up to 10.5 million in 2017.
That's down from its highest level, though five times more than in 1983.
In truth, nobody can say for sure how many undocumented immigrants there are.
Why?
Because no one knows how many elude detection every year.
Border apprehensions obviously account only for those who are detected.
The U.S. has not fallen apart as immigrants have flooded the country, evidently because we are able to absorb them.
Immigrants will keep coming no matter what policy is enacted, period.
2
Let's all remember that all immigrants, legal and illegal, are coming to our nation voluntarily; nobody is forcing them to come. Their sheer numbers has clearly overwhelmed the ability of the Border Patrol and CBP to take care of them. The porous nature of the US border is also not doing illegal immigrants any favors because crossing the Rio Grande or the Sonoran Desert can be deadly, and often is, for those not sufficiently trained or equipped. We would be doing them a favor by closing the border to all but legal immigrants. Moreover, many illegal immigrants do take American jobs. A home contractor we recently engaged who has a registered corporation, a license, insurance band who pays taxes stated that he's losing jobs to illegals who don't have insurance, pay taxes, or anything else because they can afford to undercut his prices. Many states give illegals free medical coverage. How about all Americans and especially veterans who don't have adequate care? It's a complicated problem and the solution is helping those countries from which the illegals are fleeing to reduce crime and corruption, fueled in part by the illegal drug trade. We can only stop the illegal drug trade by making such drugs legal and easily affordable in the US. Prohibition demonstrated this effect. To start, close the US border to all but legal immigration. If you come here illegally you immediately get deported, period.
20
@Mike The same way but in much larger volume, the US corporations invade Europe and pay zero taxes.
That is Apple, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks, Netflix, and others. Destroying the European economy and stealing jobs.
Much bigger money volume than a couple million poor immigrants.
But that does not bother you. As long as it is not in front of your yard and it concerns others and you get the benefit of it. No problem.
Yes, Congress needs to get together and, toward the 2020 elections, all politicians must take care of immihration policies and sit down to work. Under the Obama administration, he was known as the deporter in chief, and only had the rise of minors during that fatal summer of 2013 (If I am not mistaken). However, this Preisdent, by constantly closing the door, had given the coyotes the ultimate marketing devise: leave now or you risk to never leave. Immigrants coming from Honduras, El Salvador or any other places in the world do not know what is happening. They have been traveling and do not follow the news. They only know what they are being told and they rush to the border. Obama never closed that door and it became a revolving one on which never was a crisis of this magnitude. Immigration reform is needed and is hard work. Congress needs to make that hard work now, no matter the president on the top. It will not get beter for anyone in the continent.
2
This article is so much better than yesterdays Bret Stephen's piece that almost seems to excuse the cruelty at the boarder.
It is a realistic, intelligent essay on a major US problem.
You’ve pretty much got that completely backward.
We need emergency , we need intervention .We have to stop blaming Obama.,We know that he did wrong with deportationand . We need to stop completely this cruel policies from Trump/Miller They’re looking for audience from voters to show power against innocent people. His voters are people with all kind of background. Ignorant racists, xenophobic , evangelicals, rich individuals that are happy profiting and they will vote for him again, they have the freedom of regulation in financial, climate....They will be with Trump no matter what. In general cynical citizens that their parents were immigrants too , agree with this president against humanity. For decades we helped and trained “paramilitaries “ in Central America until this moment For our selfish Economic interests, Now we’re treating this citizens with cruelty , obviously we are going to accomplish hatred. Republicans and Democrats are playing with fire. The NYTimes has a lot of power , they should keep immigrants in first page everyday! . We need to fight against this ugliness. We paid a big price for our sins already. America, Europe, Australia you name it act very arrogantly against other human beings why l? Stupidity? This people need HELP now. Democrats! Stop talks Action now. We need a population of protesters in front of this criminal facilities in Texas, Arizona. Employees should protest too, they’re responsible for this crime if they obey their superior. Strike now.
Why was it wrong for Obama to have deported people who came here illegally—not asking for refugee status, mind you, just coming here illegally and staying illegally?
4
False equivalence this time: Obama deported too....Republicans created concentration camps. Republicans forced non specific funding legislation. None of the money will guarantee proper housing food or medical care but may be redirected to build a wall? A Republican victory? Like the Revolutionary army taking over the “airports”, GOP victory is cruel hollow and stupid. The Conservatives and Liberals are a false equivalence. One side beckons hatred, resentment and fear, racism, voter suppression, and greed.The other strives to provide for the weak, strengthen education, healthcare, democracy,and the future. Fascism v Socialism are not equivalent. Savagery v compassion are not equivalent.
4
You speak as if the floods of migrants to Europe resulted from less punitive immigration policy ignoring 16 years of policies to disrupt and make war on Muslim states in the Middle East. In the Americas you ignore our policies to subordinate Central America to the interests of international creditors and global absentee landholders.
If their nations are not being destroyed or looted, people prefer to stay home. We will not solve the migrant problem until we stop destroying other countries.
6
The common solution to most of the country's problems is that someone should do something about it.
1
Uh. If “elite consensus” means acting like moral people demanding human rights for those who are fleeing persecution, you bet! Somehow I don’t think Douthat is defining “elite consensus” as that. And it does not matter what Americans’ think about our laws “those illegal aliens are breaking the law so they deserve what they get!” Laws mean nothing when the are bad and immoral laws, especially to terrorized people (yes human beings...people) who are fleeing for their lives bc those lives are endangered, it’s called desperation...
A June 2019 Gallup poll showed 37% of Americans think immigration should be kept at its present level, 27% think it should be increased and 35% think it should be decreased.
Gallup did not ask the obvious question: “Do you oppose illegal immigration”
However, Gallup did ask American how much they worried about illegal immigration. The response showed 36% of Americans worry about illegal immigration a great deal, 18% worry about illegal immigration a fair amount, 24% only a little and 21% “not at all.”
This suggests that 78 percent of Americans oppose illegal immigration.
If Democrats refuse to cooperate with Republicans to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill that closes loopholes in our immigration and asylum laws that encourage illegal border crossers, they will lose the 2020 election.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx
14
A comparatively reasonable perspective. Unfortunately, Trump is in power and NOTHING will be done to fix this catastrophe. Remember, he does not admit error and feels no empathy for those who do not vote for him. He is their President, and the rest of us can go to hell. Be clear, he would veto anything that is reasonable, he does not do reasonable.
4
Isn't immigration a problem that lays at the feet of Congress? As much as I loathe this administration's policies, I believe blaming this president or any president alone for immigration issues ignores the responsibility that congress has to address the problem. Efforts have been made to pass immigration policies by both Republican and Democratic presidents, but letting the executive branch take the heat is by far the easier political course for our representatives. If the media took on Congress like they do presidents, sanity might return to both sides of the border.
8
Seems to me nobody wants to fix the problem. Republicans and Democrats all want the campaign issue.
And Donald Trump seems bent on exaggerating the suffering to an international human rights issue.
Politics is destroying the country and money is destroying politics. Let's begin with mandatory public campaign financing so our government works for us, the people.
3
It is true that when one veers too far off the road to the right, they wrench the wheel left, over-correct and hit the guardrail. People rarely end up in their own lane, let alone still on the road. For action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So we go from insane and cruel policies from the right - driven largely by the Bannon fostered and nasty Stephen Miller, gaining power even as he fails to gain compassion - to the calls for open borders from our newbies on the left.
This is the fault of the right. Totally. And on their heads lies responsibility for allowing ourselves to be a nation that sanctions evil cruelty to desperate people, as both a punishment and a deterrent. I suppose I should count us lucky that Stephen Miller has not suggest a policy of hanging the heads of failed immigrants on pikes on the border wall, a tried and true deterrent through out the ages.
And do nothing to the people who hire illegally, profit from the desperation, the fear of being caught; exploit the workers.
I don't know how to stop the reactionary right and the reactions of the left, with sensible, humane and considered policy. But i will state this prognostication clearly: It won't be Mitch McConnell looking to fix it, or Trump, or any right leaning politician. There's too much to gain from pandering to both the anti-immigrationists and the employers getting rich off their labor.
214
@Cathy Let us also not forget that Obama in 2012 initiated DACA which has allowed almost 700K recipients whose parents brought them to the US as children and are contributing mightily to American culture not to mention the economy. Trump and the GOP have been stymied thus far in their efforts to reverse this morally correct, decidedly humane policy though they do have a point in their claim that it is unconstitutional since such programs are in the purview of Congress. Of course it would have been legal constitutionally had the Repubs not made good on McConnell's promise to block everything Obama proposed.
26
I happen to believe we have a special obligation to migrants from Central American countries. We've been a destabilizing force in that region for a long time, and it's not completely unreasonable for us to take a position that we broke it and therefore "bought" it.
But that doesn't mean immigration has to be the only thing we offer people in those countries. I think we should listen to those who talk about having a Marshall Plan for the region. That would be enlightened self-interest, as well as the humane thing to do.
262
@Maria
Yep. Our dollars will go a lot farther in Central America than in building a pointless wall on our southwestern born.
And I would much rather see clothing intended for the American market produced in Central America than in Asia.
But unless we do something to arrest climate change, and keep that region from becoming completely uninhabitable, nothing we do will make much of a difference.
27
When I was six years old in New York and my parents separated, my father came over to visit and announced that I was going to 'Paris'. This was the cause of my throwing a tantrum, but of course at that age, off I went with my mother.
Do you remember 'The Caravan', Mr. Douthat, this Christmas last, halted at the Border, where a child representative of Christ was denied entry to our country, while we went off to celebrate His birth, under the tinsel tree.
What was happening in 2012 under our Immigration Policy? Applications for Citizenship and Green Cards were being turned down. No reason was given, immigration lawyers appeared none the wiser, and barring the Lottery based on nationality quota, only those granted 'Extraordinary' status were granted citizenship.
What is happening now would not have happened with our Last President. It is shallow and shabby to make such comparisons, and if America is the greatest most beautiful country in the world, it is losing its way.
The Case of 'America versus Trump', where we are staring into an abyss so deep that we are incapable of harboring these lost children, incapable of addressing an emergency situation far more dire and cutting to the soul than a war that would unite us to ensure peace.
An era of infamy is upon us, and whether right or wrong, we, mortals are viewing the battle of angels and demons, but this American is going to place faith in Biden and his kin, not given to acts of cruelty towards 'The Child'.
74
@me,
A young woman approached me earlier, and informed this civilian that our water resources are in danger of being contaminated. Perhaps you remember the tragedy of Flint.
Having worked for the head of water, environment and sanitation department in a global children's agency based in New York, we had a fair exchange on the above.
The above agency was on board for Katrina. It was deemed an 'emergency' task operation - and what is happening at our Border is also an 'emergency crisis', which this presidency is not able to cope with, and is being poorly addressed, making us feel vulnerable and incompetent.
It is estimated that we waste nearly $145 billion in food, and this is not the time to be glib and venture that 7 billion people want to come to live in America.
We do not have 'Open Borders', and should you lose your passport on your return to the U.S., you will be detained.
Please check your facts and figures. These children are lost and it is not a matter of culpability on our part, but responsibility.
It is a show of strength and a call for arms to shelter these children, far more important than a military parade, that reveals the character of America, and we will be unable to do so without a functioning presidency and government.
We can do better and not waste time. Some of these children are ill and dying, and if you are fortunate, you can make a donation to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, e.g.
A privilege is not an entitlement.
33
@me It is our fault, in part, because we have contributed to political instability - at best - and cruel dictatorship - at worst - throughout Latin America. That does not mean we should open our borders. It does mean we should have a policy toward Latin America that leads to stable governments and safe and prosperous citizenry, who will not need to flee for their lives.
39
@me
Really? Are you really suggesting that the rest of the world's population would move to the US of A if they only could? This takes "American Exceptionalism" and hubris to a whole new level. I would advise taking a trip or two around the world so you can see that other countries have it as good, and in many cases, better, than the US of A.
For those of us living in civilized countries, US so-called "health care" and gun culture are enough to deter us from even visiting your country.
29
Thank you for a thoughtful and balanced look at the current immigration crisis. Thought and balance are critical where this issue is concerned, not just in terms of today's crisis, but in terms of a long-run crisis. Some of the "push" pressure on migrants already reflects climate change. And some of it reflects the unravelling of governments and institutions in the countries from which they flee, even in an era of relative global economic prosperity. What will happen as climate change progresses, and when the world economy hits a rough patch? The U.S. and Europe face decades during which millions of migrants are likely to attempt to cross our borders. I'm a liberal, but increasing levels of immigration do not look politically tenable to me. The best way to deal with this is to start dealing with the problems in the migrant's countries of origin now, rather than wait until the crisis compounds.
110
Climate damage is already driving migrants north. When rapacious land use (palm oil plantations in Guatemala for example) join with climate damage, there really is no place for rural people to go. We need an immigration policy that acknowledges this, and allows for people to find a place where their families can, at best, flourish, and minimally, survive. The United States would be wise to promote democracy (and enfeeble kleptocracy) in Central America, allowing more families to stay. But we also need to acknowledge that our immigration policies are way too restrictive--for the people who are coming, and also for our own economies.
17
This or That, either/or is short.
In length.
Constrains and Creates closure.
Needed or not.
Continuum, inherent in reality's
dimensions, can be endless.
Unmeasured.
Not walled in.
As issues, man-made,
caused by...
associated with...
existing, and we know NOT
why, "birth" problems needing
responses which, unresolving,
create additional problems.
Unnecessary harms and pains.
Which...?
You suggest possible answers.
More than words are needed NOW.
What are additional relevant
queries demanding our questing if,
and when, each of US chooses to
contribute to make a difference which
can make a much needed, sustainable,
difference to lessen the harms in OUR
enabled, toxic, WE-THEY violating
world and culture?
The way these immigrants are being treated is unconscionable. Resources need to be poured into these detention centers to make them clean and safe. Families should be kept together.
But it's kind of bizarre to hear Dem candidate after Dem candidate effectively say that anyone who makes it here can stay here. We do need borders.. Right? Am I already an elephant for thinking that?
182
@bess
"But it's kind of bizarre to hear Dem candidate after Dem candidate effectively say that anyone who makes it here can stay here. "
It is bizarre indeed, since not one of them has said that.
This makes you, sad to say, at least an honorary elephant, unlike Ross, who is decidedly the real thing.
More bizarre, if such a thing is possible, both of you appear to have elided decades of Democrat pleading with Republicans to at least discuss comprehensive immigration legislation...crickets.
I know, you used a conservative waffle word, "effectively", so sue me.
Then there's the almost elegant flip-flop from the days of screeching that Obama had thrown open the borders and was the Worst President In All Of American History to the now almost triumphant declaration "Well, Obama deported more people than Trump, so..."
I'm guessing here but I suspect you don't intend to say Obama was way better than Trump, but it kind of sounds like it. Thanks.
22
When almost all the candidates say they’re for decriminalizing illegal border crossings, that scares people. What the candidates mean is they would make crossing the border a misdemeanor, as it is in Canada. You can still be deported, detained, or, if you have a decent claim for asylum, maybe stay. This seems fair. I think communities sponsoring families applying for asylum is a good idea. But giving illegal immigrants free medical care? I think all the candidates raised their hands. Asylum seekers should definitely be checked out and treated as they come in and children should always have medical care regardless of their immigration status. Advocating for free medical care for illegal immigrants when millions of Americans cannot even afford medical insurance but don’t qualify for Medicaid, is bananas. Even countries with universal healthcare don’t extend it to illegal immigrants. If that were the case, I’d just pop over to Mexico or Canada to get my medical care. Mexico is a car ride away. A few plane tickets to Canada would be cheaper than my families crazy premiums and deductibles.
30
Trump is vulnerable on immigration because his administration isn't cracking down on the cynical employers who profit from it.
Last month he declared that farmers shouldn't have to use eVerify because the website is too 'complicated' for them.
He didn't even have a good answer after having been presented with evidence that his own businesses have been hiring persons here illegally, for decades.
274
@Cal
"Last month he declared that farmers shouldn't have to use eVerify because the website is too 'complicated' for them."
And let us not forget that some of these "farmers" are getting enormous federal subsidies. Somehow that's not too complicated for them.
55
@cal
What is good for Trump is good for me!
Build the wall!
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
6
@Cal
The employers are not rich Americans.
The employers are small businesses (landscapers, movers, contracters...etc) run by immigrants.
6
Why not a population exchange. Since people like Steven Miller think that one of them is worth a 100,000 of any migrant trying to make their way into this country and since Donald Trump thinks he is worth maybe 10 million at least, just offer them up, give them enough money to live decently on, and welcome in a all others. Admittedly we get by far the best of the deal. But something can be said for the role they will play in helping to make America genuinely great.
1
Oh please. Donald's Evangelical supporters abandoned their religious convictions the minute they decided to support this wicked man. All of them clamoring to throw the first stone.
10
The solution to this problem is simple. Stop incarcerating all the people who come to the US to claim asylum.
Once you do that, the humanitarian crisis at the border goes away, as do the abominable conditions at these internment camps.
3
@Peter, what you are proposing is effectively open borders. Is that really a sustainable solution?
7
No it is not open borders. Asylum seekers are given an initial screening at the border to weed out those with criminal records or who have been previously deported. Then they are released with either an electronic monitor or a simple caseworker assignment (both work extremely well) pending a hearing on their asylum claim. The system isn’t perfect, but the percentage of these people who do report for their hearings is in the high 90 percent range.
4
instead of vague generalities, the author should offer concrete, specific proposals. Such as, a national ID card, enforcing penalties on employers of illegal workers, regime change in Central American nations to improve living conditions, militarizing the southern border to stop the flow of migrants, etc.
11
."This is where the president’s religious supporters should be intervening, should be applying moral pressure, should be working to prove that the immigration restrictions they support can be implemented in accord with basic Christian principles."
A statement like this suggests that Mr. Douthat would believe, or have us believe, that the administration's "religious supporters" believe in "basic Christian principles."
Assuming for the moment that the Sermon on the Mount represents "basic Christian principles," there is no way to reconcile support for this administration with "basic Christian principles." Support for this administration, by those who operate churches, simply means they view this administration as a way to suppress women's reproductive rights.
The single best thing about "Mayor Pete" is his willingness to point out that the behavior of much of the right is incompatible with Christian belief. That's self-evident to most non-Christians, I think, but "Mayor Pete" can speak from within the tent.
8
The "blue" cities are largely populated by economic, cultural and political refugees from both the "red" counties and other "traditional," homogeneous places around the world. There will never be a social policy or a border policy that our two populations can agree on, because we were created at odds with each other.
2
In the competition over whom to blame for our immigration policies, almost no-one is willing to ask the underlying question: how should we treat citizenship in a world starkly divided between haves and have-nots? Wouldn't you want to leave Syria or Yemen or Honduras for Europe or the U.S? If we don't invest in efforts to bring the sending countries at least somewhat closer in wealth and a decent life to the receiving countries, we will never solve this problem, any more than steep income inequality within a country will make a happy population.
9
The mindless cruelty does not just affect Central Americans who are fleeing the conditions in their home countries, it affects people who have spent most of their lives here and are Americans in every way but by birth. Isn't it time to pass a DACA bill?
7
As Trump is wont to do, to compare a policy or action by the current administration to that of Obama and to suggest that Obama did the same and therefore current policy is acceptable, to do this is a cop-out. Trump has been president for two years, during which time for a long period he had control of both houses---more than enough time to arrange policies that changed the Obama administration's effects. So let's avoid this justifying what is immoral and intolerable--e.g., the policy of separating children from parents, even the very young, and damaging them for life--by saying that this was started by Obama. Mr.Trump, you have had the power of the presidency for two years so the buck has stopped at your desk for some time already.
3
Over the past few weeks, it has become clear that the Democrats are committed to dismantling the southern border and opening America to everybody who wants to trek north.
This policy will be a national disaster for the United States. If crossing is decriminalized and immigrants are rewarded with free health care, the numbers crossing the border will grow ten fold. Schools and healthcare systems will be overwhelmed by a vast wave of Spanish speaking immigrants. The housing crisis will be multiplied as hordes of new arrivals compete for a limited supply of housing. Landlords will raise rents. Native born Americans will be driven into homelessness.
Meanwhile, minimum wage laws will collapse under the impact of a horde of people willing to work for $1 an hour. Profits of farms and fast food restaurants will soar as labor costs implode. Washington politicians on the left and the right will be rewarded with new campaign donations as corporate profits rise.
Donald Trump is a deeply flawed President, but it looks as if he is the only man standing in the way of the national disaster that an open border would bring.
Ocasio-Cortez recently called US citizenship a 'legal enforcer of racism' on Twitter. Presumably she wants to abolish it. The Democratic party is going insane.
12
The last few weeks have shown no such thing! A significant majority of Democrats believe in sensible immigration enforcement as shown by Speaker Pelosi’s agreeing to pass the Senate immigration bill. Certainly some voices in the Democratic Party are calling for more drastic measures but that pale’s in comparison to the rabid anti-immigrant hostility on the right.
Since no one is talking about open boarders, your dire predictions regarding wages, healthcare and housing sound like a subtext you picked up on Fox News.
2
So basically you fear the “other”. I can’t speak for all Democrats, but I am not for “Open Borders”. I am for honoring our treaty obligations as well as our own laws for those seeking asylum. I believe in humane treatment for everybody since they are as human as you or me. But I am also for universal verification of legal status for all job applicants as well as personal criminal penalties on the hiring manager for hiring anybody who does not pass verification. I am for a permanent legal status for all undocumented people already here and integrated into our society, but without a pathway to citizenship (unless they go back to their country of origin and apply through the normal process.
I don't think you have to be "an open-border liberal" to believe that treating illegal border crossers humanely is important.
I don't think you have to be a "let the whole world come here" liberal to believe that separating children from parents and guardians, and locking up people who have legally asked for asylum here, is right.
I don't think you have to be a "simple-minded liberal" to believe that the actions taken to address illegal border crossings should not be planned with deliberate cruelty as an intended and sought 'feature'.
I don't think scared, desperate people fleeing violence, criminal governments, and desperate economic hardships to seek asylum here should have to wait years to have a hearing on if their request can be granted.
I don't think using "invasions of illegal criminal immigrants" as a political wedge to divide and polarize Americans, while doing nothing to really solve the problem -- instead using it as a political tool against "the other side" is the right thing.
Instead, we should elect people who will be trying to find a way forward to a real, comprehensive, and durable solution for our nation's future.
I think "liberals" and "conservatives", if they can get beyond the political manipulation, the politician's rhetoric and heated empty cable-news punditry that are using "immigrants" to blind us, instead of actually trying to solve the problem, can find a common ground that works for our economy, our freedom, our consciences, and our neighbors.
5
@Jim Brokaw "nstead, we should elect people who will be trying to find a way forward to a real, comprehensive, and durable solution for our nation's future."
That would eliminate any of the liberals currently running for president.
4
Somewhere there is a "policy" that can find a way to treat people humanely while maintaining some sense of discipline to our borders. That just seems fair and logical. But as with any problem, the solution usually costs money. And it takes leadership.
How many times have we been asked as Americans to send money and aid to desperate people around the world? Millions of Americans have given of themselves...in the past.
What has happened to us? How do we allow our hearts to hardened so? We didn't support our OWN ctizens in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. We tossed paper towels at them.
And now we have desperate people (our neighbors!) fleeing horrific circumstances and we see them as a threat? Why does ignorance and cruelty reign when we could be leaders in compassion and human rights?
Something is feeding us fear and greed instead of concern and compassion. Where are the church leaders? Where are the preachers and pontificators of the message of love from Jesus?
Where are the billionaires who could help in a heartbeat while their pleasures hardly skip a beat. A few million here or there, Jeff?
How about a consortium of rich techies rises up and demands to help? Elon, you are always looking to make news. Jump in. There is a vacuum to fill. Show us you are about more than cars, rockets and tunnels.
2
I voted for Obama twice but was devastated when I learned of the number of deportations that were carried out on his watch. The 1986 amnesty did not result in more criminals and rapists living in the US. As far as I know this country was provided with workers where there was a great need. A friend of mine who was "illegal" from Britain took advantage of the amnesty and as far as I could see, she contributed a great deal to this country and continues to do so.
I tend to doubt that the President's religious supporters are going to apply any moral pressure. He has admitted to marital infidelities and sexual assult. He has consistently lied. Yet, where is the moral pressure from the religious right on this behavior? In fact, I tend to doubt that the religious right actually disagrees with the President's brutal policies. Not to mention that the President is amoral and would probably ignore any call for humane treatment of the immigrants.
As for the Democrats, they are all running scared over the progressive wing, and Biden will soon be a has-been. A guest worker prgram makes a lot of sense, except that the beneficiaries of a program, farms, the hotel industry etc. probably don't want one, since it inevitably means some sort of government regulation over living and working conditions.
I hate to say this, but we have reached an intractable impasse over immigration and neiher side is going to give an inch.
3
There is a difference between campaign rhetoric on the one hand and actual cruel policies on the other, and it’s sad Mr D doesn’t realize this. Whatever policies some candidates espouse, come Inauguration Day a Democratic President would recognize that sweeping reforms such as Douthat mentions would be impossible in a Congress that at best for Dems. Would include only a narrow Senate majority, and with a SCOTUS designed to thwart any liberal agenda.
Let’s add that when we do get moderate bipartisan proposals from Congress, they are
met with a sharp “Nyet” from Trump.
Can we also be clear about one other thing. That some Democrats yell “get rid of ICE!” Is in fact irrelevant, just like when conservatives yelled “get rid of the IRS!” Just like there will always be a tax gathering arm of Government, there will always be an enforcement arm for immigration. The name will change but the purpose will be the same. The OSS became CIA same basic purpose. The KGB became the FSB in Russia and FBI wasn’t that agency’s original name.
It is illuminating that under Clinton and Obama immigration enforcement continued. One President however did grant amnesty to millions of illegals however, in the last half-Century! Guess who? Ironically it was Ronald Wilson Reagan in 1986! So it’s actually possible for a Republican to act reasonably! Or to be more accurate, it WAS possible!
1
Three vitally important points about who is coming to our southern border, and why, which aren’t covered in this otherwise thoughtful essay:
1. The people entering the US across the southern border in 2018-19 are not the same people as those coming during the Obama and Bush years—those were primarily adult Mexicans coming to the US alone to seek work. There were relatively few families.
The people coming to the border now are primarily families, or children traveling with relatives, fleeing from the Northern Triangle of Central America—El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala—which the UN calls one of the most dangerous places on earth. Amnesty International points out that the other Central American countries are dealing with larger migratory flows from the Northern Triangle countries than the US. According a 2014 UNHCR report, Mexico, Belize, Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Panama have had a 432% increase in asylum applications.
https://www.amnestyusa.org/fleeing-for-our-lives-central-american-migrant-crisis/
2. Another main driver of immigration not mentioned here is an unprecedented 5-year-long drought. Many of the people seeking asylum here (and in other countries) are subsistence farmers whose crops have failed year after year. https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-02-06/climate-change-overlooked-driver-central-american-migration
3. 2016-17 data: visa overstays accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while only 38 percent had crossed a border illegally.
6
Cruelty is not a policy. We are a nation built from the ground up by immigrants. All of us, aside from Native Americans, can trace our heritage back to anothr country. If life was so wonderful and glorious back “home”, our ancestors would not have left. Many ethnic groups have faced discrimination and cruelty when entering the United States. I have noticed that newer citizens have little empathy for those who are desperately trying to get to this country. The attitude seems to be, “I got mine, too bad for you”
2
I'm curious. Just who are these elites who support these extreme "left" and "right" ideas? I'm old (88), sick and tired of all these "right" and "left" statements. The entire situation is the result of our (all Americans) inability to see beyond the end of our noses, to be aware of what is happening all over the world and acually think and plan intelligently for the future. Some of us want to stop what is happening on the border, some to fix it, some to ignore it and some to make it worse. Just the same old USA. Me, I'm just tired.
4
Ross, your suggestion of a long term bipartisan solution to the current immigration situation is admittedly thoughtful - notwithstanding that I would like to posit that the current TOP PRIORITY should be to immediately stop the HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION at the Migrants Detention Centers.
I totally concur that even though we are a country of immigrants, we should definitely have a well conceived and properly administrated immigration system as opposed to the monstrosities which are currently being perpetrated in these detention centers.
Trump has effectively commingled xenophobia and tribalism with our immigration issues. Obliquely, he also wants to stop ethnic diversity in favor of maintaining ethnic homogeneity by not disrupting European immigration. Let’s not forget that Trump’s mother and two of his wives are first generation European immigrants. His entire campaign was primarily based on the promise of “Building the Wall” and saying the most despicable things about the Mexicans.
The current deplorable state in the detention centers is a result of Trump’s divisive demagoguery. Let’s not deflect Trump’s accountability by spreading the blame on both sides of the political spectrum.
2
CORRECT: If the Democratic candidate for President proposes to just open our borders, Donald Trump will be re-elected. Use common sense to win.
2
and If we used the money from the recent tax cut to help fund this process?
And we are talking about rural towns becoming ghost towns?
Surely we can do better for migrants....
We can have 20-30 million illegal immigrants, and Trump, or we can not have 20-30 million illegal immigrants and not have Trump.
I support Democratic policies on every issue except immigration. Illegal immigration, at the numbers we are seeing, is going to destroy any ability to pass liberal policies.
We cannot have universal healthcare when we are adding 144,000 people each month. We would need an additional 300 doctors, per month, just to cover the new people. And they have nothing to pay for these services.
Climate change: our emissions are going to keep going up. We are adding 144,000 emitters each month. Roughly 10% of our population is here illegally. We could cut emissions by 10% just by enforcing our laws.
I know that 'diversity' and 'kindness' and 'American values' are all enshrined in our Constitution, according to liberals, but something that actually is in our Constitution is equality under the law. No where does it say that the law does not apply when a person has a sad story. No where does it say that people who work hard get a pass.
I despise Trump but I will vote for him. The Democratic Party push for as many illegals as possible before the census is so anti-democratic it sickens me. When the Democrats said they would provide healthcare to illegal immigrants I knew the election was over- Trump will win.
10
Immigration is, and will for the foreseeable future continue to be, a politically hot potato, a fractious issue open to exploitation by opportunists. And, while I lean left on this, Ross is right that the extreme position taken by some Democrats will get us nowhere, I'm not sure that all of this boils down to Mr. Biden as the most desirable candidate. This seems to be where the piece ends, though I can only hope that it wasn't intended principally to land there.
The author ignores the fact that there was a deal in 2013 that included key support from both parties. It passed the Senate with a large majority, but the Republican leadership in the House blocked a vote. After that, even supporters such as Sen. Rubio backed away under electoral pressure from Mr. Trump. It is plain from all accounts that the current administration is using child abuse as a political tool, aided by a corrupt core of neo-fascist and racist officers. There is nothing odd about this in U.S. history as examples abound of phony nationalism. Certainly, as the author suggests, religious forces can play a role in correcting this injustice, but it will take a political movement to stop what is happening and reverse course, including jailing Mr. Trump and his collaborators to serve as a deterrent for the future. I agree that there are Democrats who have contributed to failures with the immigration system, but there are degrees of culpability. At this point, praying for moderates to come to the rescue misses the point that those holding power, Mr. Trump first among them, are not interested in any deal since, as they correctly see, their political future is on the line.
3
Thank you for the balance. A good way to start correcting the problem would be for Trump to stop lying about his "beautifully run" detention centers, acknowledge the horrors created by the needless cruelty and incompetence of his administration and appeal to both parties in Congress to begin serious negotiations on a new immigration policy that will treat asylum seekers more humanely. Problem is, we have a narcissist in the White House who thinks only of himself, never acknowledges a mistake, enabled by a GOP and a fake news propaganda machine that has turned our government into a Trumpian personality cult.
1
Same can be said for tearing up the Iran deal. And NATO. And NAFTA. And Venezuela. And tariffs on Canada.
The only places this tough talk has gotten this president is with the overlords in The Philippines, North Korea, Poland Hungary and Russia.
2
Before you go blaming the Democrats, and, especially, that up-start black president Obama, perhaps someone might remind you that the Democrats had been trying to get comprehensive immigration reform done for some time. But, then, there was Mitch McConnell, whose greatest claim to fame is tying the hands of that black man. It's what you do down where he comes from.
4
Isn't it strange that we rarely hear about measures that would make it much harder to hire and pay people here illegally? It's almost as if American businesses and consumers actually don't have a problem with illegal immigration. Other than the visuals of dark-skinned people coming into the country, that is.
5
The current surge in migration is because many Central Americans (and others from outside the region) see the chaos at the border and hope they can slip through with a magic asylum claim that will not be heard for years. The simple way of turning off the magnet pull of American jobs is to arrest and fine anyone employing an undocumented workers. The argument from the left will be that Americans won't do that sort of work. That is simply not true. Those jobs were done by Americans before and many paid good money. Illegal immigrants are gaming the system, but also employers here are gaming the system. I worked in a factory where a 3rd party contractor supplied false paperwork for illegals. They was decent inside jobs but the workers had to kick back a third of their minimum wage to the contractor. Employers are also exploiting workers under the H1-B and other visas. And why hasn't e-verify been implemented as mandatory? Because businesses get cheap labor...like Trump at his golf resorts. The money doesn't stay in the US it goes back as remittances and a secondary economy exists for illegals so their taxes do not pay for the services used. Why hasn't Trump done something about this? Crack down on employers and the problem goes away, but Trump wants this issue to stay alive, because this will win him the election. And Democrats during the debate gave him what he wanted. And finally, we cannot take 4 more years of Trump. Get it together Dems!
11
Ross Douthat is correct that a cool headed assessment is vitally needed. After all, despite the overheated rhetoric, the evils that Trump is inflicting on children are minor compared to, say, the nuclear bombings of children in 1945.
However, I have no interest in the power-elite consensus, nor what the Democrats want, but only with what is ethically correct. Those who've harmed children or other people must receive the appropriate penalties. Those who built barriers that have pushed migrants to dangerous routes -- where many died from dehydration or drowning -- deserve correct penalties.
Since these evils were perpetrated by the powerful against the weak, we are dealing with powerism, and the correct penalties must take that into account. Hence, giving the death penalty to Trump and the other perpetrators in his administration is ethically required. A side effect of applying the correct penalties is that it could deter what Douthat calls "populists" (Aren't Douthat's "populists" the same people that Charles Blow and others call White Supremacists?) from harming even more children.
Instead of thinking about an "elite-consensus", "right-wing" or "left-wing", or appeasing White Supremacists, choose correct ethics as your guide.
2
My God get over Obama already. Trump has been in office long enough. It is his era now. Why can’t one Conservative write about what Conservatives should do without bringing in past administrations. Move on, you have the White House, the Senate and the Supreme Court and still can’t get anything done but tax cuts. It’s a cop out to point to others. The truth is Trump and your so called Christians could care less. Get your own family in line first before admonishing the neighbors. And let’s put Christ back in Christian.
5
Good Article Ross. Politics has dominated this issue too long. We need solutions now, not soundbites and more cruelty.
4
The Trump administration has “no child separation policy.” Customs and Border Protection separates children apprehended at the border from their parents to comply with a federal court order, not Trump policy.
In 1997, the U.S. government reached an agreement known as the Flores Settlement Agreement, which arose out of Flores v. Reno, a 1987 class action case. The U.S. District Court for the Central District of California ruled that unaccompanied children apprehended at the border cannot be held in custody but must be transferred to Health and Human Services childcare centers.
In 2015 Judge Dolly Gee of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California ruled that accompanied children must be treated the same as unaccompanied children; they cannot beheld in custody with their parents but must be transferred to childcare centers.
Judge Gee’s ruling is the reason—the only reason—migrant children apprehended at the border
7
I read this on Wikipedia.
First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country. Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group.
I am for giving help to the poor and afraid, either in their country or here, if necessary.
But, do we really expect that recent asylum seekers meet one of the 5 protected grounds?
4
@Tom
They don’t. It’s a ruse. As long as they have children with them, they won’t be deported.
And how do they know that?
Thank Obama, afternoon he issued DACA.
7
Sadly our most important problems are not being solved because we retreat to our political corners and refuse to listen to any solutions that do not fit into our narrative. The immigration issue requires bi-partisan collaboration and a multipronged approach. Anyone who thinks just building a wall or just handing out mass citizenship passes will solve this crisis is ill-informed and ideologically boxed in. We need better border security and fencing, more immigration judges, a pathway to citizenship for dreamers, better detention facilities, and a Marshall Plan for the countries devastated by gang violence, climate change and stagnant economies. There is no magic wand to wave or pixie dust to spread around that will solve this problem. We need adults to step into the room.
4
Thank God for Summer and a heat wave! And defending the funding bill is an act of cruelty. That bill did not specify how the money should be spent.
2
No one has ever made it clear to me how or why America is experiencing an immigration "crisis," or even an inconvenience. Migrants desperate to leave their countries are certainly in crisis, but how people who come here to do our most menial jobs for substandard wages creates a crisis is quite beyond me. I really don't see the negative impact on Americans. I don't really see how it is even an inconvenience.
A few years ago, my home state of Oklahoma decided to have a crackdown on illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants disappeared for the three days it took employers to freak out about people not showing up for work and the policy was discreetly dropped.
Illegal immigration is a great tool for Trump. Ranting about barbarians at the gate has his base riled and the cruelty of his policy has created another stark political division. He even got the Democrats at the first debate to stake intemperately liberal positions that he can use against them in the presidential race.
The crisis is that real people are really suffering and dying over this ludicrous political theater.
4
@Boris and Natasha, it’s a “crisis” because Republicans can use hatred of brown people to drum up votes and raise money. It’s a real crisis because they’ve decided to use real human beings to play a propaganda war. If Trump refuses to take proper care of immigrants, it creates photo ops that scare his paranoid white base into a xenophobic tizzy, firing them up for the vote. It dehumanizes them and, ironically, makes his base less empathetic. He himself blames them for their plight. It’s a deadly game he’s playing, beating up the most vulnerable among us.
3
Trump doesn't want a long-term solution to the immigration crisis. Besides, he wouldn't know how to craft one even if he did want one. Currently he only wants sound bites he can use at his rallies to whip up his audience and a wall with his name on it.
5
The Democratic position on asylum is to grant it for anyone who is: poor, made bad dating decisions, has family in the US illegally already, has a bad story, had a bad day, stubbed their toe.
True asylum is granted on the basis of proving that you would be persecuted in your home country on the basis of religion, race, nationality, political group or social group. Being poor doesn't cut it. Wanting a better life doesn't cut it. Having an abusive boyfriend doesn't cut it.
Stubbing your toe doesn't cut it. And going through Mexico before reaching the US means none of the criteria has been met.
I want to live in a nation that believes in the rule of law- not in the rule of sad stories.
15
It seems to me people conflate two things; lawfulness and morality.
It is moral to help people in need and to advocate for that.
It is illegal to enter a country without permission.
It is correct and good to emphasize the moral imperative to treat people in need humanly, but it is dangerous to dismiss the illegality of the act, completely, as if it doesn't matter at all!
It matters a great deal, for two reasons; a) citizen can't pick and chose which laws to respect. If so, we are going down a very dangerous path, and b) are all the people who chose to go through the legal immigration channels stupid?
Some degree of logic is required here. We can't make major decisions based on emotions only.
A country must retain the right to allow only those it chooses to enter it. It can't give up this right, or it's no longer an organized country. This is the basis on which we must build a system of immigration that benefits the US, first and foremost. We have no obligation to foreign nationals beyond humanitarian assistance, which can be given to them at their home.
11
No, Ross, the current migration cycle began 40 or 50 years ago when the US destabilized every progressive government in Central America, then deported LA gang members into those countries, and precipitated civil collapse. The cycle continued as greenhouse gas emitters--the US far in the lead--triggered climate instability, crop failure, and desperation in those countries. The surge in family migration--you call it 'reckless' but really it's just totally desperate--is just the consequence of those earlier events for which we in the USA bear a considerable responsibility and owe a great deal of reparations. You fail to mention a key demand of liberals, that the US intervene economically in those countries to encourage migrants to stay in place. Trump's threats and sanctions, supported by the whole Republican establishment, are exactly wrong, another instance of their vicious and inherent cruelty. Finally, as a practicing Christian I am deeply offended that you even mention right-wing self-proclaimed Christians in conjunction with these hate-filled practices.
8
Trump and the GOP have no incentive whatsoever to fix the immigration problem.
A humanitarian crisis of this nature only serves to cement the fury and loyalty of his base, so in effect he "wins" as the country continues to suffer under the weight of this ongoing catastrophe.
They have no moral compunction against the inhumane treatment of immigrants presenting themselves at the border, indeed they seem to revel in the cruelty of it all.
Trump almost unbelievably the other day stated that the situation was being handled "beautifully". Where would one begin to unpack the Orwellian nature of that sickening statement?
It would make sense that Trump wants Mexico to serve as our "Turkey", if you will, as the final destination for most immigrants abandoning their central american countries just as Turkey now functions as a dumping ground for Syrian refugees.
That being the case, there would not be a total lack of logic or useful "realpolitik" to that goal.
But, the "Dreamer" question is really the canary in the coal mine for this seemingly intractable problem. Trump can't even bring himself to sign off on that, as any form of compromise is anathema to him.
Giving the "green light" to Dreamers would make Trump look weak, and as Trump has demonstrated his whole life, his ego will not allow for that.
The census question is another perfect example of that, Trump and the GOP already won the "gerrymandering forever" sweepstakes but still they can't let go of this census case.
3
Court rulings that guaranteed free healthcare and education al anyone who made it over the border encouraged adults to bring children.
DACA encouraged migrants to bring children.
'Advocates' who scream about 'families being separated' even when adults have been given due process and been ordered deported encourages illegal immigrants to bring children.
They get more protection, more sympathy, more benefits, more access if they use children to get into and stay in the country.
If you are immigrating in violation of the law, holding up a child is your golden ticket.
Our responsibility to these children starts with holding the adults who have recklessly endangered them accountable for their actions the same way a citizen would be held to child endangerment laws. All the adults-the relatives who sent them the thousands of dollars to pay the human traffickers and the adults who drag them through several countries through the desert knowing they could be separated and detained.
No adult should be rewarded with expedited entry or social services for putting children in this kind of danger.
14
@CNNNNC
Democrats say they support a strong border on TV, although even that wouldn’t be uttered at a Dem debate anymore, but on the other hand, proclaim to illegal immigrants - if you make it across without getting caught, you could come to any one of the sanctuary cities we set up for you, where you’ll be “protected” by us from being deported. Us Democrats will also provide you with a drivers license, immigration centers to navigate and take full advantage of our laws, free education for your kids, and now even free healthcare.
But, no really, we support a strong border- wink, wink.
10
It seems like you're trying to blame as much as possible on liberals, and I guess that's fair game for immigration policy. On that note, you're right that the Obama administration was aggressive when it came to deportation and border enforcement, a reality the right all too often ignores.
But the first sentence is kind of vile. "Nature's temporary solution"? Or you could say, "People desperate to flee violence and poverty are now facing temperatures that could be life threatening." It's a callous attitude that is all too characteristic of people far removed from the problem, looking to spin it for political reasons.
Later you say "reckless adult migrants are often responsible for putting children in peril in the first place." That's also kind of vile, given the conditions they're fleeing from.
At that point you could talk about how to alleviate those conditions, what is making people so desperate, why the recent spike in migrants from Central America is a recent phenomenon. But it's about blaming the left as much as you can. At the end of the day, you just don't sound that invested in calling out your fellow righties for cruelty and indifference to the suffering of children. You sound invested pondering the question, "How much of this is Democrats' fault?" Utterly unsurprising.
3
It is of course an outrageous and dangerous assumption perpetrated by the GOP and accepted by conservatives that “basic Christian principles” concerning immigration stand behind the Republican Party.
Anyone who has read the Bible; anyone who knows the rich narratives of the Old Testament and the sovereign imperatives of the New; anyone with the least acquaintance with Christian teaching, much less heartfelt conviction, still less historic understanding; knows that welcome of, and commitment to, migrants is an ESSENTIAL, not a peripheral, concern of Christian ethics.
That white conservative evangelicalism knows nothing of this merely shows that it is now an extension of Trumpism, not an authentic branch of the confessing church of Jesus Christ.
In fact the choice for Christians is simple: EITHER you follow Trumpism OR you follow the gospel, on immigration as so much else.
That is the choice.
3
"..decriminalizing illegal entry and extending public benefits to undocumented immigrants."
It is not a crime to seek asylum, or be here existing as a human being. It's a misdemeanor to overstay a visa, but "decriminalizing" is a false narrative.
So is the thing about public benefits and health care for undocumented immigrants. They are tremendously hard for US citizens to get, so repeating the falsehood that undocumented people have it easy to obtain these benefits is shockingly false. And when immigrants in US custody suffer and die because of Trump's purposeful cruelty need some medical attention, this becomes to the likes of Ross, "free health care for illegals". Ross doesn't use that word, but a lot of his friends do.
So-called "conservatives" like Douthat claim that Dems and liberals want "open borders" but they can never seem to name one of any prominence. That's because it's false. No serious Dem is calling for open borders. What we'd like is some humanity and mercy in the complicated issue.
5
I don't favor open borders, but the inhumane behavior of Trump and his advisers on the Mexican border defies description. We as a nation seem to become more wedded to cruel and militaristic solutions to undocumented immigration by the week.
And it is disconcerting we hear nary a peep from neither conservative Evangelicals nor Catholics about this outrage. After all, they do believe in the biblical account of the flight of the holy family to Egypt to escape persecution!
We need to rid ourselves of this tyrant and re-think immigration policy as Ross Douthat indicates. But past compromises have failed due to the hard-line opposition of many in the G.O.P. congressional caucus.
So, let's put the blame where it belongs: Where Christian religious fervor reigns supreme. Odd though!
3
As I understand things the democrats and the readers of this paper claim that climate change is an important issue. I find it difficult that the left can separate climate change from immigration. This is as dishonest as the right that claims it's not real. Before the democratic hopefuls propose basically open borders, as they did last week, they should specifically, detail what the ideal population of the U.S. should be and how adding millions more people to our population wilco tribute to fixing climate change that not only threatens this country but the entire planet. My belief is that you cannot simultaneously call yourself an envriomentlist and be for mass immigration. The numbers simply do not add up.
4
It is disheartening to see a lot of the posters, the informed elite of the US, take this issue in a partisan way. Fact is, we can learn from Europe's experience. After a few years of almost literally ``open borders'' policy by some countries they have not clamped down so hard that people are dying by the hundreds from drowning. The original policy induced more people to leave their countries and led to the hardline policy. This WILL happen in the US, either Trump will be reelected, or the so-called progressives will change their minds when accosted with reality - already Africans and South Asians have begun to attempt to walk across the border (a few weeks back and Indian child died in the desert).
We MUST have a Marshall plan for Central America, and simultaneously make the penalty for knowingly hiring illegals forbiddingly high. Also, either we say that we are not responsible for the 7 billion people on earth or we claim it is the West's fault in creating the instabilities in poor countries. Fact is, instabilities and wars are occurring overwhelmingly in countries which have seen very high rated of population growth in very short times (in West Africa children per woman is 7). The Marshall plan of the 21st century will have to not only create political stability but be accompanied with education about population control.
5
Crossing the US Border to ask for Asylum is ALWAYS legal.
No Visa required. Getting a Visa is not even possible.
Under our own law, anybody “unauthorized” crossing the border with “intent” (just the intent) to ask for asylum, is never a criminal.
We, USA, pushed for this international agreement and agreed to it 1951. It is a ratified treaty.
Treating people as criminals when asking for Asylum, where you may have entered the country unauthorized, is expressively forbidden in the 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees, which the United States has ratified, i.e. it is a treaty. A TREATY! Ratified! Interpol is waiting for you.
Article VI of the US Constitution declares our treaties “the supreme Law of the Land.” Prosecuting individuals fleeing life-threatening persecution and seeking asylum at our borders is illegal under national and international law. A crime!
The Trump Administrations policy, in our name, of prosecuting every person who crosses the border, no matter his or her circumstance, contravenes the US international treaty obligations. Many of these families are escaping unimaginable persecution in their home countries.
It is particular shameful because they are on an exodus from one of the numerous triangles of misery the US has created in many regions of the world, bombimg their cities, while pretending to liberate those people.
3
Former Republican Speaker Boehner, now lucratively cashing in by shamelessly peddling his influence around Washington, has historically much to answer for arising from his political cowardice in addressing long existing immigration problems. By refusing to even bring the bipartisan, Senate-passed comprehensive immigration bill up for a vote in his party controlled House, many of the present problems and much of the attendant human suffering can be laid directly at his feet. He unconscionably chose the retention of personal power over the general well-being of the country, a cynical choice much too familiar to us today, also.
3
"...(R)eligious conservatives and their representatives, who have generally been far too blasé about the conditions in the migrant camps and the Trump administration’s moral responsibility to migrants."
Mr Douthat, such a serious issue hardly warrants such a statement laden with irony and sarcasm. Aside from a tiny handful of Quaker and Catholic volunteers, since when have religious people in America ever really cared about the fate of the desperate and downtrodden in recent years. Finally, 'Trump adminstration' + 'moral responsibility' are two concepts which form a perfect non sequitur. You really need to take a step out of your office and discover the unpleasant grittiness and injustice of the world which is ours in the year 2019 before any meaningful change can be implemented.
5
The USA already has 330 million people.
The world outside the USA has well over 7 billion people.
Half of them live in "poverty" or suffer from "domestic violence" or "gang violence" or other economic or cultural maladies.
Hundreds of millions, even a billion or more, will come here,
if we let them.
We have no obligation to take them.
We need much stronger immigration control,
including a numerical limit on total immigration,
and the limit must be enforced.
That means physically removing those who try to come
without our authorization.
7
It’s worth pointing out that Trump’s wall would do absolutely nothing to mitigate the mess at our border.
He’s your president Ross, the product of a party you’ve supported for years. Get your heart and mind free of the oppressive, self serving, reactionary ways of your party and church and help your country escape the fear and avarice that have wounded us so deeply. That’s what Jesus would do.
5
Douthat is myopic to the problems that religion, in particular the Roman Catholic church, has placed on their parishioners, regarding family planning. This planet needs negative population growth. As a nation, the USA should be strongly supporting efforts to limit population growth, yet US religions have effectively advocated for just the opposite and our politicians have followed like sheep.
5
The Republicans never have solutions to any problem, other than tax cuts for the wealthy. They use wedge issues: whether it's welfare queens, abortion, gun control, civil and voting rights, immigration, etc...all to stir up the hate in they're mostly white base, and bamboozle them to vote against their own economic self interest. The Republicans don't care about the human aspect of any of those issues, or about their "base" it's all about power and money, money and power.
3
I find it interesting that the white male conservative critics especially love to put the onus of everything in the liberals and democrats. It’s just so disingenuous that it makes the whole essay fall flat. You’re. It interesting in solutions. And the conservative position is untenable. In 2013 the cons had the opportunity to pass a comprehensive bipartisan immigration reform with 46 billion for border security. They said no. And Obama’s deportation policies were about deporting those who’ve been convicted of a crime. No one had or had a problem with that.
Ugh. You’re not even getting the Christian response to this terrible mess? It is a biblical mandate that is as important as the crucifixion. And you ignore it on purpose. Sad. Disingenuous. Fraudulent, Ross. You can do better.
1
Illegal aliens here phone relatives and friends back home. They tell them that American law does not allow them to be stopped at the border if they claim persecution. They tell them that once they’ve entered our country they will be able to stay, work, send their kids to school, procure false identities and drive illegally.
They tell them that there are powerful people in my party, Democrats, who do not believe in rule of law when applied to illegal immigrants. They tell them that the Democrats and powerful procurers of cheap illegal labor are working to let them stay forever.
They know that they’d have to return home the day the first employer goes to jail for violating eVerify, but that neither Trump nor Congress will take this step.
You can’t pretend to be against Open Borders while championing the right of every illegal immigrant to violate our laws. I wish that everyone could have the benefit of living in America, but short of inviting the entire populations of South Sudan and Yemen, who are suffering far worse than our Hispanic illegal immigrants, we cannot do so without harming ourselves. And yes, our covenant to help our fellow Americans must mean a lower level of compassion for other world citizens.
9
Ross, you’re a pretty smart guy. You should be able to see that the left doesn’t care about the “immigrants” (a better word would be “intruders” or “invaders”). They only want to use these people to gain political power.
And we on the right have sympathy, but we will not be taken advantage of. The left wants to destroy us utterly by whatever means. We will not let them, no matter the cost.
3
And the South will rise again.
6
The USA and Europe need to learn the lesson that Israel and Australia can teach us. The only workable immigration policy in the face of a demographic explosion in poor countries is near-impenetrable border enforcement.
5
There's one serious problem with Douthat's broad-brush defamation of President Obama and Democrats as some how guilty of similar inhumane crimes against illegal immigrants as the cruelty of Trump and Douthat's Republican Party: it isn't true.
For sake of argument, let us assume there were some violations of humane treatment of illegal immigrants and refugees during Obama's presidency. Does anyone think for a moment that such violations would have been the administration policy of the president? Or, more likely the isolated abuse by rogue border agents who have recently been exposed as lowlife thugs (and might I add, likely conservatives and Evangelical or born-again Christians)?
Everything we know about President Obama points to the fact that he is a virtuous man. Everything we know about Donald Trump points to the fact that he is a vile reptile of a man with no conscience. Everything we know about Republicans in Congress is that they are Machiavellian weasels who care not an iota about the suffering of refugees, illegal immigrants...especially children.
President Obama could not get McConnell to work with him on any legislation to solve the problems on the southern border. To the contrary, McConnell sought ways to make President Obama fail to solve any problems. Who thinks Republicans in Congress would ever work with Democrats to solve the border problems? They wouldn't even work with W. Bush back in 2004.
Trump and Republicans have institutionalized cruelty.
6
Trump wants credit for things that are going well in the country but no responsibility for things that are not or that his cronies have orchestrated. Stephen Miller's escalation of and focus on this issue is well known and documented and Trump has indulged him and enjoyed the fruits of using immigration and xenophobia as a political cudgel, ignoring the byproducts.
The medieval separation deterrent was ratcheted up by this administration. No democrat (not a single one) has called for something as irresponsible as open borders but that is the framing the GOP and its apologists are pushing to cover for their own incompetence and complicity, as if it's solely the Democrat's problem to come up with ANY solution that doesn't default to the worst possible, which frankly too many on the right seem enjoy inflicting and say migrants deserve. The President himself mere days ago said that if migrants don't like the conditions they can just not come - problem solved!
The GOP holds the mantle of leadership in this country right now. The leader of its party and his odious cabinet are the problem. As a country we are capable of strength and compassion at the same time. It used to be what differentiated us from others but too many are actually choosing this path and also enjoying it. To our collective shame.
2
Can we put the "reckless adult migrants are often responsible for putting children in peril" meme to bed. As when debating abortion, conservatives like to think these life decisions are a lark for the participants. People don't risk their lives to get to someplace perilous, they do it to escape someplace perilous. This is life or death for them, don't discount their courage or their fear just because it's not your life.
7
On this issue, even if only on this issue, Douthat is correct.
4
Douthat: "On the American right, that correction ought to come from religious conservatives and their representatives,.." Are you serious. Religious conservatives, Evangelicals, have enthusiastically supported Trump and his policies. Trump is arguably the most amoral president in history displaying personal characteristics that are just the opposite of those taught by Jesus Christ. Yet some religious conservatives have described him as "someone sent by God." In my mind, religious conservatives no longer have the credibility to solve any problem or to represent Christianity.
5
If only we could acknowledge that decades of US imperialist policies and practices have devastated the economies and societies of Central America (and other countries around the world), causing the misery that is sending these people to our borders, maybe we could take steps to help them at home. Oh wait, we can’t even acknowledge centuries of exploitation of our own people—slaves and their descendants, women, Chinese immigrants, the list goes on—so if we can’t take full responsibility for our exploitative behavior at home, how can we stop blaming the rest of the world for problems we created and perpetuate?
A completely different kind of leadership is a good place to start. How about two women for president and vice-president? Two people who understood oppression first-hand? Two mothers who will think twice before sending other people’s daughters and sons into war? Two people who know how to count to ten before lashing out? Two women who understand and respect the rule of law. Two people who actually want to make the country better, not just propagandize everyone into submission? Who will tell the truth?
We need to start telling the truth in this country. The lies are literally killing us.
Informative but not enlightening, Ross!
You describe the quandary but, like everyone else, cannot prescribe the solution.
The best way to stop people from coming here is to stop the pull of jobs. Fine employers who hire undocumented migrants, shut down the agencies who supply documents and workers and then take a cut of the minimum wages they receive. Make e-verify mandatory. Jail any employer who does it twice. Most of these people are economic migrants and now people are coming from overseas hoping to get in because of the chaos at the border. Crack down on employers who take advantage of the H1B visa and other visa programs. Shut down a few slaughterhouses...as in take all of the illegals and make business stop. And don't tell me that Americans won't do these jobs, they did them before and robots will soon do most of them. The pay has to be there. Other countries have seasonal workers and they go home and have a visa. Other countries control their borders. Illegal immigrants come here to work and most of their money goes to their home country. The NYTs needs to investigate how much this is costing American taxpayers.
6
No, because our Republican Congresspersons are stupid, ignorant, and irresponsible. djm
1
If we had our act together, we could process all the asylum seekers, get them work, loan them money, and have an economic expansion that would persist for many years.
But no. We hassle over concepts of “citizenship” and “borders”.
Why not just grab the toro by the horns and create a new Brassero system? It worked great in Ca in the early 20th cent.
I would like Ross to mention the many benefits of immigration, the ways in which U.S. foreign policy has fostered the political instability of Northern Triangle countries, and the need to use our common sense and human decency to help the desparate people escaping their countries of origin. We should all sacrifice and help migrants because it is the right thing to do. My father's family fled Russia in 1897 as persecuted Jews, and sure, they were met with hatred and prejudice much like Trump'sown, but also Americans who welcomed and helped them. Americans who believe Trumpian myths must find their humanity. It's not that complicated really.
7
Mr. Douthat, there is much in your column with which I can agree, starting with your criticism of the current democratic candidates’ wholesale agreement that immigration without documentation should be decriminalized. It is not permissible for anyone to sneak across our borders (which is not, by the way, what is happening in the case of migrants who present themselves at border stations seeking asylum). You all but lost me, however, with your use of the word “elites” in reference to those who favor the removal of restrictions to immigration. The word more accurately identifies that group of conservatives who favor an exclusivist, isolationist approach. “America First” is the rallying cry for this cohort, embodying entitlement and false exceptionalism. In other words, these are the true “elites” to the extent that you use this as a derogatory term. And these are the very people who claim the United States is exclusively for Americans. If that is not elitist, then the word has no meaning at all. I am proud of and promote the diversity of nationality, ethnicity and religion in our nation. I do not consider myself elite or privileged, except to the extent that it has been my privilege to welcome people of color into my life and to be enriched by their infinitely interesting cultures.
5
If Trump wee really serious about slowing immigration he would sign an executive order punishing the American employers who hire illegals. If the onsite employer/manager was jailed one day for every illegal worker found during an ICE raid, there wouldn't be as big a market for illegal workers. A local branch of a common Texas restaurant chain was raided a year or two ago, and at least 11 people were dragged away. If some of them had been the manager and assistant manager, the raid might have produced some real consequences.
5
It would be easy to criticize the spin of some points made, but mostly it is deeply heartening to hear a conservative plea for the humane treatment of children.
2
While it’s refreshing to hear calls for the religious right to do something Christian however I’m tired of hearing conservative columnists lecturing Democrats on their mistakes. The Republican Party has embraced racists as their path to electoral victory. Democrats have to work around this reality, and that involves hard choices. But it’s the Republicans who are the root cause these problems. Write about that.
4
In the 70s and 80s the US took in a million or so refugees from SE Asia. Sad to see the change in our attitude
4
Nothing mentioned here in this op-ed about working with the governments of Honduras, Nicaragua. El Salvador and Guatemala to keep their citizens from wanting to flee. The Trump administration has withdrawn all aid to those countries. The position here of Mr. Douthat that both Republicans and Democrats are to blame is ridiculous.
4
Republicans and Trump don’t want to fix a problem that drives their base to the polls.
The meanness and cruelty to immigrants is the bread and circus that distracts their base from this do nothing , know nothing administration.
Democrats must rally around a single, cohesive plan on immigration to defuse the beast- why haven’t they is the only question worth asking.
4
Who is facilitating mass Central American family migration? Who is paying for it? Who opposes intervention into the failed states from which migrants are driven? Who pays the buses and the drivers?
Who, by not providing holding facilities in Mexico, forces families to attempt to swim a turbulent Rio Grande?
Who arranges post mortem pictures for publication, without true exposure of their provenance, actual cause, and known context?
Who elevates a few inexperienced nonentities into drivers of partisan sentiment?
What political party attempted to deny adequate emergency funding to the holding facilities they have made necessary, holding those funds hostage to a partisan agenda, which in the end could not be tolerated by even its own Congressional members?
Yes, care must be given, in all humanity. But...the American people will be taxed to pay all the present and forthcoming bill for it, for years, which payments will ultimately come to the criminal gangs driving the migration, and redound to the benefit of their political supporters.
There will be no end to it. Those who advocate “open borders” must realize that.
2
I put up with Ross' ruminations on Catholic minutiae because, every now and again, he writes a column like this one.
Ross says very clearly that the Evangelicals who support the President are acting immorally by letting the President get away with this cruelty.
Ross says very clearly that the Democrats have to work up a comprehensive immigration policy, because somebody has to, and it certainly is not going to be the Republicans.
3
Apparently "elite" is the word of the day.
Please define.
Rich?
Educated?
Coastal?
Smart?
White Collar?
Liberal?
Shower-in-the-Morning?
Are you, Mr. Douthat, an elite?... Air conditioned job at the NY Times. Well educated. Upper middle class.
Congress has kicked this can down the road for decades. Businesses have come to rely on illegally cheap workers. Contractors, meat packers, field laborers, child care, etc. I would propose that what you mean by "elite" are those who profit from illegal immigrants. It's not right or left. It's just plain old exploitation.
7
I am speechless, Ross. You suggest that the answer rests with “the next Democrat president.” Huh? The blame belongs squarely at feet of the current Republican President for the atrocities at the border. Why attempt to deflect responsibility for what is without doubt a crime against innocent children and a re-election strategy of a vile administration?
3
This piece leaves out the most telling bit of recent history, the reneging by immigration hawks on the Bush 43 era deal to improve border security while passing immigration reform. We got the border security, but not the reform. This bad faith scam left President Obama with little choice.
Trump relishes cruelty. Republicans can continue to co-sign this administration's abhorrent practices. They can also pretend that the Obama Administration's tough policies provide cover for the current depraved practices, but the reality is Republicans own this mess lock, stock and barrel. They could fix it in a moment if they cared.
3
I'd rather a leader err on the side of humaneness, than deliberate cruelty.
Ross you call for evangelicals to urge that the president be a little" kinder and Gentler," the slogan Bush senior loved to say.
Their silence is deafening and yet another reason why I call them the ultimate hypocrites, hiding behind their religion but not following its tenets.
6
“On the American right, that correction ought to come from religious conservatives and their representatives, who have generally been far too blasé about the conditions in the migrant camps”.
Trumps religious supporters are not intervening. This is because they just don’t care.
3
Agree completely. Why can't the Democrats and Republicans hash out an immigration policy? The obvious reason is both benefit by leaving things the way they are. They each use it to bash each other while the poor immigrants are made to suffer.
A pox on both their houses!
1
Congress is the body that writes the laws. The Senate agreed to a new reform legislation two years ago that he President said he would sign, and then he said he wouldn't sign it, and then the Republican House killed it. That legislation would have solved most of the problems we are seeing created on the border today. My solution then is to dig up that old, Senate approved legislation, repass it, send it to the House, pass it there, and put it on the President's desk. Problem solved.
2
Ross Douthat has gone too far in this essay. He has presented a complete straw-man (straw-person?) argument. His characterization of Democratic views on immigration is vulgarly inaccurate. The idea that Democrats favor indiscriminate unrestricted immigration is precisely the lie being promulgated by Trump. It is offensive.
The fault in his reasoning of course is inherent in his narrative, since he freely points out that immigration control was a hallmark of the Obama administration.
He is correct, however, in pointing out that Trump's incompetence has made the situation infinitely worse. I single out incompetence, because he hasn't had a consistent administration to handle the problems at the southern border. Tiny increments of acting officials can't even begin to get a handle on the problem before they are fired whenever Trump sees a headline he doesn't like.
Then there is the outsourcing to for-profit "prisons" for children and adults under conditions that make humane Americans blanch. Yes, it is cruel, but it is the worst kind of cruelty, because it is cruelty that comes from utter neglect, tinged with profiteering, and concern only for optics, not real solutions.
And then there is the stupid, inane "WALL" that Trump has used as a brickbat to prevent any better implementation of immigration
No Democratic candidate for office is going to just open the floodgates as Douthat and Trump claim. They will, however, restore humane treatment and competence to the process.
4
As the climate changes millions of people, perhaps whole nations, will be forced out of their homelands into neighboring areas. What we are seeing at our southern border is minuscule to what we, and many other countries, can expect if we can't bring our climate back from the brink.
2
Unless we - as a nation and as a partner in the global community comes to the realization that our population is unsustainable at this point - and it is continuing to grow. Arguing about immigration is pointless. If we “let them stay” - who would pay the massive costs involved? The people who write opinions and articles for the New York Times do not live in the “vibrant” areas that are dominated by “immigrants” - and gangs. They also don’t send their children to the understaffed schools that are packed to the rafters with students who don’t understand American English and the fact that the teachers are so overwhelmed that they can no longer function as teachers.
4
Dear Mr Douthat:
I would like to respectfully suggest that you re-read your article and, hopefully, use it as a stimulus for some introspection.
You denigrate a "cycle of polarization", yet you start your article talking about an "elite" this and that because that is THE right wing way to express derision. Why use that word, except to polarize! The elite I am most aware of these days is Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, the Koch brothers and other plutocrats. In fact, isn't it pretty elitist behavior for you, a writer for the NYT to wallow in all the required Fox memes - "the elite", "but Obama", its up to the next Democratic president to determine whether polarization continues (it couldn't be that the current Republican administration has anything to do with it).
And yet...and yet, even though you make your polarization obvious, you cannot help but recognize the obvious, that from the top of the administration there is a lack of moral guidance. (Though in the interest of introspection I would suggest to you that the "Christian" principles you cite are really principles of humanity shared by all major religions as well as moral atheists and agnostics. Ironically, though, all of the migrants that the administration is so contemptuous of are of a strongly Christian heritage and come to the US seeking help in a most Christian belief in the biblical compassion of others and are treated cruelly).
How about starting here?: On March 30, 1863, the greatest Republican president (and arguably, the best most would say) wrote, “We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven ….But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own.”
2
Ross,
In the midst of your otherwise excellent essay, you pull back from your most profound insight.
Christian supporters of Trump are not merely guilty of being "blase", or of having made "meager efforts" to counter this inhumanity.
No!
Christians who do not forcefully counter this inhumanity are complicit in acts that directly and obviously run counter to the core teachings of Jesus.
Therefore, these apologists of Trump, these Christians of whom you speak are guilty of such blatant hypocrisy, they cannot reasonably be described as followers of Christ while acting in such a manner.
1
Jeez Ross: Trump’s religious supporters are silent. Any other ideas?
Another column based on false equivalences, cheap shots and wishful thinking.
1
There seems to be zero probability that Douthat can write a column critical of the far- or alt-right (in this case of its presiding over the moral and racist travesty taking place at our southern border) without poking the left or progressives in the eye as well. Rarely, if ever, will the reader see the reverse. One could call this “balance” but its effect is to water down the criticism he’s leveling.
1
Mr. Douthat, what you describe as elitist folly is the inscription on the Statue of Liberty. " Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." It used to be the essence of the American dream. It was gratitude in the hearts of second and third generation Americans for the welcome America had given their predecessors that extended that welcome to the next wave of immigrants. I regret that we have become so impoverished in spirit that now only elites can afford the dream become folly.
2
Amidst all the angst over the lack of toothbrushes for the kids who've been brought across what was once a border, one wonders just how many of those kids actually had toothbrushes in Guatemala, Honduras or wherever.
3
“Christian Values”? What that this even mean?...Is it the Christian Values of the far right? That denies women basic rights ,that treats lgbt like the plague of Egypt, that basically and blindly ignoreTrumps very “Unchristian Values”... Don’t hold your breath if you would think one moment that this solution would solve anything. Much better to rely on compassion and empathy by the common human being ( religious or not,though in these times, less religious than not..)
In medicine, doctors are often chastised for "treating the symptom, rather than the disease." The same can be said for politicians squabbling over immigration. No one is addressing the real question: WHY are so many people coming to the United States?
The answer is simple enough--survival. Life in their home countries is so wretched and so dangerous that they are willing to WALK thousands of miles, and to risk capture, imprisonment, mistreatment, and deportation--just to get HERE. The alternative is poverty, violence, starvation, and violent death--conditions created by OUR country's selfish and insane foreign policy, not to mention OUR voracious appetite for illegal drugs.
Our politicians, however, refuse to address those issues. It's so much easier to blame the immigrants, because after all, they're BROWN. God forbid that our lily-white Anglo purity should be encroached upon by Latino immigrants! Racism as a tenet of "national security." Who knew?
Don't expect any kind of sane, moral solution from Trump, McConnell, et al. They've already done the political calculus. They want to remain in office, so that means looking "tough" by treating refugees like animals. In Trump's case, it means utter, naked CRUELTY. For him, cruelty is the point. He gets off hurting people, especially immigrant children. He sees himself as the brave hero standing defiant against hordes of invaders, when in fact he's just a schoolyard bully writ large. And his voters cheer him on.
No borders = no country.
You cannot afford Medicare for All if “All” means every person on the planet who can walk or fly in.
You cannot run a modern, information-based economy if you preference the unskilled and semi-skilled and actively discriminate against the English-speakers with college degrees — as we do (but Canada wisely does not).
4
As America this is unacceptable Close down Detention . President Donald Trump will not take any responsibility he will blame Dem's . No shoulders this is not my President he must be prosecuted after or before leave's off. Lock him up.
I cannot sleep at night if any Children are not free from this cruel DETENTION CENTER.
Send Kevin Mc Aleenan to Jail
I am surprised Trump has resorted to cruel punishment as a way to get others to do the 'right' thing. He never experienced that. He was bought off by his father and used that method to get where he is today. He did't threaten the podiatrist that helped him get his medical deferrment, after all. He paid him off. Also the American arrogance here is that this is something that happens elsewhere: Syria, Lebanon, Iraq. It doesn't happen here: We simply cannot have refugee camps. Which is essentially what most of these people are. There is no declared war in their native countries, but no less dangerous. Welcome to the real world, America. All your Christianity and wealth and feelings of superiority won't do much for you when the problem begins to breath down your neck. And just think....Trump now wants to round up the homeless and do God knows what with them? Wonder who comes next after the immigrants and the homeless? I know the answer....just give each group a large swath of wasteland no one wants and call it a reservation. Problem solved.
1
"For this cycle to break... you would need fraternal correction to happen ..."
"Fraternal" as in brotherly, loving, "reach-across-the-aisle" kind of correction? That kind of cooperation was not in evidence AT ALL during eight years of President Obama's attempts while the Do-nothing Republicans resisted anything the Dems had to offer. And "Fraternal" has gone right out the window starting with Trump.
No, no. I think we are at the stage where "Parental" correction needs to take place. Dems need to take control in 2020 and give the other party a good comeuppence.
1
With regard to funding shortfalls, you neglect to mention the GOP's refusal to grant President Obama's request for $3.7 billion in emergency funding in July 2014 to address the problems of border security and humane treatment of migrants from Central America at our southern border. The GOP slashed the requested funding drastically, approving only $659 million. Why? Politically motivated obstruction to deny Obama any ability to govern effectively. And this was after the GOP had already cut funding for border security by $600 million in 2012. It appears the solutions proposed years ago by the ones you like to call elites are still the only viable humane remedies. But it seems the GOP is not much interested in humane solutions, only cynical political strategies.
5
We are not innocent of the circumstances that have led most immigrants to come here. The US has done a great deal over the course of the 20th century to destabilize Mexico and Central America. We opposed democratic movements as “leftist” and we installed authoritarian regimes, pretending they were on the side of democracy—whatever promised us the greatest economic gain, we’d support. Nowadays, our corporations still benefit from globalization and unfair labor practices. If we want to solve the immigration crisis, we must begin by working to fix the economic and political imbalances that are of our own creation.
6
Obama's immigration policies were working, but they should have been coupled with a concerted effort to promote sustainable development in Central America. Unfortunately, under his administration, foreign aid was drastically reduced in Latin America and the Caribbean, and funnelled instead into places like Afghanistan and Iraq, to try to deal with the disasters in the Middle East inherited from the previous Republican Administration. After Trump, Democrats will have to spend years cleaning up after his messes, too.
6
@Portola
Working??
Ask yourself this, why and when did children suddenly come streaming across the border?
The answer - in 2014 and 2015, by the hundreds of thousands.
Why? Because Obama issued DACA. Even though it didn’t apply to them, all they heard was Obama as allowing the children of illegal immigrants to stay. Look it up - the humanitarian crisis of 2014 and 2015 - all with hundreds of thousands of unaccompanied migrant children.
All because Obama thought it would be a good idea to offer “protections” for the children of illegal immigrants.
3
I wouldn't be too concerned about the alleged far left rhetoric of the Democratic candidates because they know. unlike Trump, that they must work within the system to create compromise. Conservatives always lean on fear of far left policies to cause a panic among moderates. What is perhaps more appropriate to fear is the president who governs by fiat, bypassing the Legislative branch of our government to enact his cruel ideas of how things should be. Fear how far Mr Trump, not a politician, might go, not the politicians who know how to work in our democratic system
5
I wished one of the Democratic hopefuls at at least one of the debates had asked the group “Hands up if you want secure borders”. I hope all hands would have shot up. Trying to appease OAC will give the election to Donald Trump.
7
@Maxi
Because they know that would be a bald faced lie. Democrats can’t say they support a “strong border”, them on the other hand proclaim - well, if you make it across without getting caught, you could come to any one of our sanctuary cities we Democrats set up. We Democrats will also provide you with a drivers license, immigration centers to help you navigate our laws, a free education for your kids, and now even free healthcare.
But no really, we support a strong border, wink, wink.
1
I started to give up on this piece at “elite” versus “public”. These verbal walls just add to the conflagration of the issue.
How about “humane” versus “xenophobic”, “fair” versus “stingy” - there’s a word.
I skimmed down through “Obama did it” and Alexandra Orcasio Cortez - the right-proclaimed Wicked Witch of the Left.
Enough. Let’s move on. We, as a nation, have stopped helping the people escaping their collapsing native lands. We have exponentially expanded the numerical threat of diluting our national “character”.
The boogeyman at the door is us.
6
It's so cute how Douthat persists in thinking 'religious conservatives' possess principles that would impel them to treat children decently. Those conservatives have clasped Trump to their collective bosom, making it
clear they are motivated only by the same lust for power that has always driven their ilk.
5
Politicizing inhumanity and cruelty towards human beings (whether foreign or domestic) is misguided Mr Douthat.
Since you choose that path, explain how christians (the trumpian base) justify being completely ignorant and dismissive of christian beliefs as it relates to "others".
2
Trump doesn’t want to solve the immigration problem. He needs it to rile his base. His base doesn’t care about children suffering, they thinks it’s trump fighting for them. Trumps evangelicals don’t worry about born children only those in the womb. Since trump needs it, so does the Republican Party cause they need him to win. Hopeless
4
First Ross, you are doing what Trump does, looking backward. All about Obama mistakes. Stop it. Let’s look forward. We need to help Central America so people don’t feel a need to travel.
Second, I believe the only dem candidate that supports open borders is Julian, so stop with that myth.
And third, your idea of religious folks is so naive that I am unable to believe it. Religion is all about exclusion, intolerance, some might even say hatred, as it seems to be playing out. So I am having a great deal of trouble taking you seriously as a thoughtful opinion writer.
3
You're right, seldom as that happens, Mr. Doubt That. Republicrooks AND corporate Democrats (who go along to get along) are to blame for this. They might as well all be in the same "party." And, that's what it is to them--a party, as tRumpists revel in the suffering of brown "invaders." Listen to real Progressives. Only THEY care about the people, not the money, or that sense of white "superiority." When one person suffers, we all suffer. The thinking of those misguided Dems must be altered. Primary the right leaners! Spit in the face of the status quo DCCC. You will gain back your appropriate national self esteem, not this Nationalism/Jingoism, masquerading as patriotism.
1
Ross, you should know that cruelty is not inherently folly, and is therefore generally strictly superior to folly, since sometimes being cruel can be the right thing to do!
Douthat treats Trump's cruelty as if Trump regards it as a necessary evil to act as a deterrent. But the burden of Trump's rhetoric on immigration is to tell the country that it is right to hate the would be immigrant. Thus the constant charge that migrants are largely criminal. Mexico must be humiliated by being forced to pay for a wall. The purpose of the cruelty is to sate the love of cruelty.
1
In spite of this good article the Right will run from reality under cover of a bevy of ad hominem paranoid incantations and the Left will fight over the bullets to shoot themselves in all extremities saving the coup de grace until November 2020. Trump wins, America loses.
1
What an insane ideology neoliberalism is. All the Western developed countries have fertility rates that will not stabilize population decline. Japan is trying to figure out how it can recruit immigrants after thousands of years of discouraging would be immigrants.
People don't flee healthy economies and soon the proportion of Middle-class Mexicans will exceed the American middle-class percentage.
Instead of figuring out how many new Americans you need each year to fill tomorrows jobs you elect to destroy yourselves by believing nonsense.
It is 2019 and America needs open borders especially where those coming across the border threaten only to save America's consumer economy and promise only they will give America a better future. America is not full and is trending towards empty.
3
We don't need "Christian values", we need laws that reflect the reality of a world that wants to move here when clearly the American public doesn't want open borders.
3
In fairness CNN and the liberal press might want to mention the Obama Administration's dismal handling of immigrants when criticizing the Trump's Administration's. This admission might cool off the right/left divide a bit and perhaps wake all Americans to the truth.
3
This tilted account ignores the fact that detention of migrant families with children is only rarely required - and by law and judgement is illegal over 72 hours.
It ignores the fact that the bulk of the people migrating across our borders are desperate refugees - despite the stilted and racist way US law has narrowed the definition of “refugee”.
It ignores the fact that the bulk of this migration is caused by circumstances in part created by US Federal and corporate policies including NAFTA and the war on the Catholic Church and the Central American population directed by the US and executed by alumni of the “School of the Americas” conducted with torture, rape, and murder at US taxpayer expense.
It ignores the fact that much of this crisis is manufactured through policies designed to divide and inflame the US electorate by creating unnecessary and brutal conditions at the border which affect how migrants are forced to attempt border crossings and the way they are treated so humanely once they surrender to authorities.
It is an attempt to appear “fair and balanced” which only works when too many ugly facts are ignored.
Stephen Miller controls Trump's White House immigration policy CRUELTY. Go convince Steve that he's wrong.
Population explosion by the end of the century, according to the latest U.N. population report sees Africa up from 1.5 B today to 5B and Asia with about 5B as well If environmental cycles increase in its potency of inclement change, then massive global migration waves will create havoc.
One simple solution should be free contraception One if the first acts by Trump was to eliminate foreign aid that went to it. Next, there has to be economic and technical aid to keep people in place. Before Ireland became the keltic tiger economy, it saw a mass migration of its young to Europe in the 1990s, no more No one who can remain in their countries moves. “Liberals” are not “recruiting” new immigrants, rather, they are addressing a more humane treatment if people in cages - specially infants and children.
It’s in Trump’s interest to elevate migration into a crisis to cover up and obfuscate public opinion on his criminal activity. It also helps Stephen Miller’s friends agenda in dividing the country and gaining support against all migrants who are criminals anyway from entering “Democratic” countries eg palestinians into Israel.
1
Trump's emigration policy illustrates his utter incompetence. Small children should not be separated from their parents.
3
Ross misrepresents the facts.
Immigration was falling by the end of the Obama administration, in part due to programs that were improving the lives of our neighbors, programs which the Trump administration stopped, so he could hype caravans of invaders before the midterms.
Republicans block all attempts to fix the problem, because they gain from demagoguing at election time about swarms of brown invaders.
When Republican Boehner ran the House, he refused even to allow a vote on bipartisan immigration legislation that had passed the Senate and which Obama would have signed, protecting families that Trump and his pretend family values party now are ripping apart,
Boehner knew the bill would have passed the House and become law. He could have voted against it, but, again, he refused even to allow a vote. (Much as McConnell is refusing to allow the Senate even to vote on HR-1, which is meant to keep dark money out of politics and to protect the integrity of the actual vote--because McConnell wants to keep his dark money and --protect hackers?)
Republicans block all attempts to the stop gun running south that has contributed to gang violence that drives people from their homes; Trump is diverting enforcement resources from drug dealers to destroying families.
Republicans just want to continue to demagogue the issue for votes, not to solve it.
Democrats then are attacked for wanting to protect suffering people and to treat them as human beings with dreams
1
What set the stage for backlash and Trump was Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity. Throw in Mitch McConnell and John Boehner. A posture of kindness and inclusion only hurts when people like them weaponize it.
1
Unfortunately, the politicians on both sides seem limited by the unwillingness to lead. They are so desperate to make their marks as politicians that they forget that they are supposed to lead the unknowing masses, not simply fall in line with the idiocy of the general electorate. After all, isn't this why Trump exists in the first place: The GOP was so power hungry that it gave in to its worst devils and took the Trump victory when it collectively knew better. Whatever path we choose on immigration, can we for once have a politician guide us using evidence-based policies that make sense?
Boy do I hate this article. I hate agreeing with Mr. Douthat almost entirely.
If the Democratic candidates for President keeping advocating for open borders, free health care and housing and education for illegal immigrants, I am going to vote for Trump in the next election. Yes Trump the bad administrator, the corrupt business man, corrupter of democracy and of good government, environmental criminal and intermittent bigot.
The thing this nation officially hates more than anything else is its own indigenous impoverished people. Importing more poor people into this nation will not clear the homeless from the streets of LA or save the lives of Fentanyl addicts in Ohio or West Virginia.
5
First, the answer to illegal immigration is employer sanctions. If someone wants to stop it, it's easy to find and report employers who hire them. Stiff penalties would be an object lesson.
We have a president who is an expert on immigration. He has been fined. He brings foreigners to the US to take American jobs on his properties. Many of them are from countries like Slovenia, home of his wife, who brought her card carrying communist parents to the US on a family visa.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/nyregion/trump-tower-illegal-immigrant-workers-union-settlement.html
Second, low commodity prices have as much to do with some of the immigration as US policy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/06/11/falling-coffee-prices-drive-guatemalan-migration-united-states/?utm_term=.075a8f23785d
Are American "interests" in Central America involved? Who actually controls the means of production?
And, third, immigration is merfely a totem for racism. If you don't believe me, please read the comments on Fox news website. Remember what the president said about Mexicans? Mexicans need to be reminded about it every day. Every Mexican American needs to register and vote.
2
We supposedly didn’t understand the horrors of the holocaust until the prisoners were freed from the concentration camps. I remember pictures of starving men from the pictures that I saw while in school.
Hopefully, photographers will be able to capture the state that immigrants are held under in our camps. Will the Nazis or the Americans be considered more brutal and sinister.
With Abu Ghraib at least we were holding the enemy, now we are holding the kids of undocumented immigrants. Of course, photographs from Abu Ghraib were banned so as not to inflame the Muslims.
You look at the photographs that the ASPCA puts out of animals to provoke middle class American outrage, it would be interesting what, if any, outrage will be provoked when it comes to immigrant children.
We will hear in the end about the billions spent on holding the undocumented immigrants, but of course, we will find a private industry has sprung up around holding undocumented immigrants that has created billionaires and has become the life blood of some rural communities.
1
Democrats believe bringing a child with you is akin to having a passport with a visa in it.
If you have a child, whether rented, stolen, trafficked, kidnapped, or perhaps maybe even your own, we apparently should not even ask you what you’re doing here. Just release you into the interior to never be heard from again.
Simple logic escapes Democrats when they think they can cheat to gain power.
4
You all remember when Mrs Trump went down to border areas and the back of her jacket said “ I don’t care do you” that sums up the GOP. When you do not even meet our own standards in the US then something is terribly wrong.
“This is where the president’s religious supporters should be intervening, should be applying moral pressure, should be working to prove that the immigration restrictions they support can be implemented in accord with basic Christian principles.”
But Trump doesn’t have any genuinely religious supporters, only cultist followers who pretend he’s the Biblical Cyrus. “Basic Christian principles” and support for Donald Trump are entirely incompatible. Isn’t it time we stopped pretending that a Jesus-fish on your car and self righteous bigotry are what Christianity is about?
do unto others...a country so powerful and cruel cannot stand!
Enabler! Reward bad behavior (allowing people with kids to cross and stay together) and you will get more of it.
What surprises me the most about this article is it neglects earlier reporting in this very paper that people from Central America are starting to go to Europe. It is safer, cheaper and all they have to do is never fly back. Let Germany and France have them. If they are such a benefit let's share the wealth of immigrants with other countries. After all, socialists and Dems are always telling the U.S. that we should share more of our wealth. Hence if immigrants are a blessing let us pass on that blessing.
As a person who holds both a J.D. and an M.B.A. I await the Left's realization that more workers (i.e. illegal aliens) will lower the wages of U.S. citizens. Unskilled workers will not adversely affect me or my source of income, but they will compete with the High school or college dropouts. The money spent on benefits for them are resources that cannot be allocated to fellow citizens. America first to the educated means that the government honor its commitments to U.S. citizens before non-citizens (regardless of ethnicity or nationality).
6
@Matthew. The waves of illegal immigrants to Europe has lead to the rise of nationalism there. No country should have to take everybody in who shows up at the border as the democrats are proposing. We will get 4 more years of trump if the democrats persist in this path.
3
If wishes were fishes, we'd all take a swim. When, Mr. Douthat, do you expect the GOP to compromise, not only on immigration, but on anything of else of significance? They don't compromise for fear of being ridiculed by the president (Justin Amash is a "loser!"), chastised by Fox and challenged in their home state. Layer all of that on top of court-condoned gerrymandering and you have a far left base that is just as angry as the far right.
It seems like a good time to move to a parliamentary system because this structure isn't working ("compromise" is a dirty word now).
I always bristle--just a bit--when I read the word "elite."
It sounds so much like Trump-Speak.
Or the sneers flung about by Mr. George Wallace in 1968--when he captured around fourteen percent of the vote. You will remember the "pointy headed intellectuals" that cut a broad swath through Mr. Wallace's angry oratory.
I say this, Mr. Douthat--and no! I do NOT mean anything bitter or personal--but I say it because so many people who DO talk that way ARE (in my view) bigoted and malevolent. They really ARE people of ill-will. They really DO actively wish harm to other people. Especially, the sad-faced brown-skinned people huddled at our borders, staring despondently (through the slats) at an inaccessible Promised Land.
I have read that Barack Obama deported around two million persons, judged unworthy to reside in this country. You made a valid point when you alluded to this.
But it was not a SELLING point with Mr. Obama. You did not have angry throngs chanting "Build that WALL!" You did not have Mr. Obama rushing troops to the Mexican border--"Hold your fire, men! Hold your fire!"
Am I right in saying--the notion of a WALL did not originate with Mr. Trump?
It was suggested to him. Just like the long "question" of Mr. Obama's citizenship. "You can play this up," someone said. "Use it as a springboard--dive into these racially troubled waters. Make something of it."
And he did.
Lord help us all! He did.
The United States has a long standing immigration policy quietly practised by Republican and Democratic Presidents alike. The barbaric policy in effect since 1994 and reported by the Times 25 years later is called "prevention by deterrence". and was instituted by Bill Clinton , see, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/29/opinion/migrant-crisis.html?searchResultPosition=2 The idea is to beef up legal entry points to make them largely impassible. The bulk of the migrant population is steered into the desert where the hope is the bulk of the migrants die of heat prostration and dehydration. Since death in the desert is the democratic policy for all migrants including children, its no surprise that the democratic party has no memory of its own policy. CBP judges the effectiveness of the policy by the number of deaths. Recently, the U.S. even tried to prosecute Scott Warren whose crime is leaving water for the migrants. The U.S. has no respect for human like per say and this policy has resulted in over 7,000 deaths since 1995. A new Nurenberg Tribunal with the U.S. government as defendent should be convened. Massive damages need to be paid to the Latins and the famalies who lost people because of depraved indifference. With indifference to human life so exhibited its a stroke of luck that the government doesn't come you or I.
1
Mr. Douthat, you totter on the knife edge of false equivalence by setting up "cruelty" and "folly" as supposedly balanced opposites. This knee-jerk conservative rhetorical device fails to acknowledge the malice that adheres to one side but not the other.
The US has immigration laws that allow for 1,000,000 people to immigrate to the US every year.
THe US has a 1,000,000,000,000 budget deficit for 2019.
The US can't afford unlimited immigration.
The problem and the fix are so easy to see but Liberals pretend not to see the problem or the fix??
An illegal immigrant can claim asylum and stay in the US until their case is heard.
The US has to pay to educate each illegal immigrant to be educate and provide medical care for every illegal immigrant.
The broken Asylum law\process is providing the incentive for mass invasion of the US.
Children are dying during the long dangerous journey and the mass invasion means US facilities are overcrowded.
The US should simply fix the broken asylum laws\process.
All asylum claims must be made in the home country or a neighboring country.
No asylum claims can be made at the US border.
All illegal immigrants without valid immigration documents will be refused entry.
The incentive to make the dangerous journey will cause people to stop the mass migration.
The US will have no overcrowded facilities and the US will no longer have to pay to educate or provide health care to illegal immigrants awaiting asylum claims in the US.
An easy fix but Democrats would rather complain and watch children die and have horrible conditions in US detention centers.
Why ??
4
@Peter. You make several good points. The inability of the right or left in this country to face reality is an on going problem. Deporting people back to their home countries as a family to get the word out that you cannot just show up and be turned loose is a good start. The fact that immigration/asylum laws have been ignored and abused for decades have gotten us to this mess. Continuing to add to it is not viable. We need secure borders and laws that discourage the getting across the border as a free pass to America and its social welfare benefits. The era of a great open continent that needed unskilled labor to be exploited has been over for more than a century. Our laws should reflect this.
2
Free healthcare for illegal immigrants, driver's licenses for illegals, free schooling and college - tell me again how Democrats don't want open borders?
6
As always, Mr. Douthat provides a thoughtful, balanced take on a subject that too often brings out thoughtless railings from far too many people in a position to actually do anything about it. Still, one has the sense that, like all such musings, his thoughts will either be preaching to the choir or ignored by those who most need to read and think.
The precept of the classical Greeks--"everything in moderation"--is an apt touchstone for the migrant crisis. It is absolutely crucial for Democrats to defeat the Republicans in 2020. Therefore they must not allow the pressure of the leftwing to push their presidential and other candidates to give the impression to swing voters that the party cares more emotionally about migrants than citizens. Yes we were a nation of immigrants but this is the 21st century, not the 18th, or 19th, or 20th. On the other hand, 21st century Americans are not a nation of cruel heartless bigots controlled by Trumpists. Obama's policies were closer to the standard of moderation. Democrats must win in 2020 and then finally reform our immigration policies in a rational way.
4
This article ignores our current problems we have at home such as homelessness, unemployment, education, healthcare, etc. The article does not consider the financial picture of the the Federal, State, and local governments.
Since we cannot morally place a cap on a monetary figure for humane treatment of fellow humans, what is the solution. This journalist proposes open boarders. Who pays for this?
The problem will not be solved by open boarders, uncontrolled and unchecked immigration.
2
Ross doesn't say it in so many words, but America finds itself in much the same situation the indigenous peoples of this continent found themselves four to five hundred years ago, dealing with strangers fleeing unbearable oppression in their homelands.
The question he doesn't broach is, would those aboriginals be better off today had they been able to turn back the tide of white invaders and keep to their age-old ways of life?
Sad, because it's a good question that no one wants to address. Sadder, still, because now the invading horde is largely composed of the brown-skinned descendants of those original inhabitants.
1
Shorter Ross : “ it could be worse “.
Sad.
1
Religious supporters? What religion do they follow? This president has no supporters who adhere to a religion that real Christian would call Christian. Robert Jefress and Jerry Falwell are certainly not Christians. Call his supporters for the religion frauds that they are.
3
The 11 million illegals in the US are mostly Mexicans. I am a middle class guy living in Phoenix. And we have more than our share of illegals. The nice thing about that is that they do our gardening. our house cleaning, and our child care for cheap as long as we pay cash. They do send their kids to our schools. That costs us next to nothing. And they do use the emergency rooms of our hospitals. But that is overrated.
Illegals also pick fruits and vegetables from our farms, which reduces the price of farm products. And while they say that illegals take jobs I want, remember that I'm middle class. There is no competition between me and illegals.
If we ignore the 2 million Central Americans who might eventually come here illegally, the middle class has no reason to be concerned. On the whole, the enforcement at our border is way out of whack with reality. That is true under Trump and it was true under Obama.
If 2 million Central Americans get past the Border Patrol and set up shop in the US the adverse effect upon the middle class will be slim or none.
3
It is inconceivable that we have a constitutional amendment that protects cold blooded murderers from cruel and unusual punishment while Trump can wreak his cruelty on innocent children with the acquiescence of his Republican sycophants.
2
Sure the left and right can break out of their disastrous cycle if the right stops treating these people as subhumans worthy only of punishment. And no, that doesn't mean our borders should be open.
This is old. And kind of sad.
Again your go-to calumny, "elites", with neither explanation nor definition. Its gratuitous, and reveals the deep-seated partisanship, the mean-spirited sarcasm underlying what you have to say.
You speak of a 'backlash' that 'happened', as if you and your commentary had nothing to do with it.
Let's be clear about one thing. This current round of immigrants are not criminals. We are criminals. Our law specifically allows immigrants to cross into America anywhere at any time, turn themselves in, and request asylum.
The ugliness at The Southern Border, the drowned and beaten-down men, women, and children are an intentional outcome of our President's decision to ignore the law.
Yes, there are a lot of immigrants. It would be difficult to care for them in any case, but this mass of depravity was created by Trump to foster desperation. I expect it will worsen dramatically as election day approaches.
As you busily blame elites for things they never said, its remarkable you can't find a moment to recall years and decades of attempts to get Republicans to discuss immigration reform: no response.
Its amazing you pretend ICE has not become an over-empowered agency brimming with predators, thieves, sexual abusers, and small-power tyrants.
If you're looking for help from Christian conservatives, you're more foolish than you appear. They love this stuff. They think it guarantees them another win.
3
"How US Meddling in Central America Created the Modern Day Border Crisis": Samantha Bee provides a salutory history lesson in how we made Central America uninhabitable and promoted bullies and gangsters to help our corporations steal their produce and "fight" communism. Trump's removal of funding to help introduce safety at home has made the situation even more desperate. Trumpistan's choice to ignore the mounting evidence of climate change and resultant defoliation is flat out stupid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFBkN9M_Tk0
The New Yorker also provides local reporting on how bad things are. Only desperate people leave their homes for the false hope of a better life elsewhere.
"How Climate Change Is Fuelling the U.S. Border Crisis: In the western highlands of Guatemala, the question is no longer whether someone will leave but when" https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/how-climate-change-is-fuelling-the-us-border-crisis (7/7/19 12:43 am)
4
We in the United States need to provide leadership in the Western Hemisphere by collaborating with Mexico and other countries to address the economic, climate-change and political causes that have led people to seek refuge at the border. Are we ready to do this?
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/security/reports/2019/06/24/471322/getting-migration-americas-right/
1
How does Immigration help the Poor of America ?
How does the increase in the number of Hispanics Immigrants
help the African American community who are now
the second largest minority in the country ?
In due time, Asian Immigrants will outnumber African Americans
and their political importance will diminish even further.
There seems to be a "script" that is repeated when people
show up at the border that leads to their being granted an
Asylum hearing. Has anyone at the New York Times gone
and verified these claims ?
If the conditions in these Latin American Countries are so
bad then let the U.N. intervene and let the U.S. help those
countries return to stability.
In terms of seeking asylum, why do they not seek it
in Mexico, or Panama, or Peru, or Chile...?
We were told by Liberals and the New York Times
over and over again that immigration numbers were down
but they were wrong and now Poor American Citizens
will face more competition for jobs/housing/government aide.
The Elites don't and won't care as long as they have
un-documented Immigrants to be their maids, their nannies,
their gardeners - as they would never hire poor American
Citizens to do those jobs.
The Immigration system is broken.
The Detention System is overwhelmed as is the
facilities, but given the Democrats would not approve
of the "Wall" - who is to blame ?
5
Put down the Trump-Aid. Your argument is almost as old as America herself. This is the exact same argument that was used against the Irish, the Italians, the Poles, and countless others when they starting coming here. It didn’t hold water then and it doesn’t now. Baseless fear is all it is. And what, exactly, are you afraid of? That someone is going to get ahead of you? That’s your problem to grasp. This is America, land of survival of the fittest. If you’re living in fear that someone might take your job then it’s up to you to make yourself more employable. Anyone, not just an immigrant, could come along and take it just as easily.
On the subject of the UN going in to these countries. Do you not think they already have? We’re the ones that are largely responsible for the dire situations these countries find themselves in. American policies in these countries over the past 50 years or so, in the name of defeating Communism, have been nothing short of disastrous. A little reading of not-too-distant history and less fear-mongering would do you a world of good.
1
Elite consensus? Full stop.
Think!
Breathe and relax Ross.
These are people. Humanity, up there somewhere, by definition makes us all adherents to ......market, glorious market,
relational realities.
Persistent perception breathes pathology.
Stop! Don’t you see the difference between good and evil? Or is it black and white for you?
Elite consensus?
I’m just not down with that.
Another Republican apologist criticizing Democrats in the face of the cruel incompetence of Donald J. Trump. Sorry, no.
1
Obama was working on immigration reform and trying to tout his “tough” credentials. Yes, I will admit that as a complacent liberal under Obama, I didn’t pay much attention. But whatever you want to say about Obama, he was not cruel. He did not rise to power by dehumanizing the weak.
Douthat, if you can wag your finger at us every week about abortion, then you must mount a much more rigorous defense of children who are living outside of the womb. Enough of this “liberals must do this, and conservatives must do this.” Let your more pragmatic conservatives make this argument, and stick to clutching your pearls about pornography.
1
I'm a liberal, and I thought I should read some views from the 'other side'. You most regularly. I disagree with you often for many of the expectable reasons, but I find that I agree with you often. I've come to like your columnist's personality. I had had the stereotypical view of conservatives as mean spirited and vitriolic and sarcastic. To my great relief, I found that you are none of these, but "Ocasio-Cortezan" is a real cheap shot, unbecoming of the columnist I have come to know. I'll continue to read you, but hear me saying, "ouch."
1
We have 8 grandchildren. Anyone who has the blessing of having grandchildren should be horrified by Trump's sickening, abusive treatment of young children. This is a national nightmare that must be resolved immediately.
2
We should ask our ally Israel if they will accept some of the migrants. After all, we give them quite a lot of money for little in return. It would simply be returning the favor.
2
“The harsh reality of border enforcement tends to breed callousness and prejudice, of the sort that pervades a recently-exposed Border Patrol Facebook group, unless someone in authority is pushing back hard against that tendency.”
Ridiculous. Trump signals his desire for border enforcers with just this callousness and prejudice when he characterizes Mexicans as rapists, when he issues a presidential pardon to the likes of Joe Arpaio who was “just doing his job,” when he directs mass hiring of new agents with no potent mandate for screening the thousands of creeps who sully social media with their filth.
It’s not the harsh reality of border enforcement that breeds nasty racists. The breeding of nasty racists has made the reality of border enforcement inhumanely harsh.
Ross, are you still a Roman Catholic?
Not a single mention of the pastoral teachings of The Church? And yet, you muse about the role of religious leadership.
You make no mention about the clear statements made by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops? Nothing on the statements made by Pope Francis? Nothing? Not even the core idea of treating "the stranger as Christ." Nothing?
And here I thought that you were an essayist that gave voice to the OFFICIAL TEACHINGS of the Roman Catholic Church?
The answers to immigration reform are coming from the religious authorities... They are just being ignored by people like you. Maybe you just want to be able to "pick and choose" which Church teachings you are interested in adhering to?
So sorry that you are ignoring the clear voice of what must now be your "former" Church.
Next time you do your research, check out the US Conference of Bishops clear pastoral teaching on the subject. It is there to inform your "faith."
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/immigration/churchteachingonimmigrationreform.cfm
4
@Steve Kremer
Amen
Two issues collide here, Mr. Douthat. First and foremost, you tsk-tsk about the evangelical "Christians" who are indifferent or actively hostile toward the asylum-seekers. Their "principles" do not extend to the literal command of Christ to "succor the poor; the stranger."
The people at the concentration camp holocaust are not white. Therefore, these "Christians," who do not consider non-whites worthy of their prayers or their concerns or their sympathies or their compassion, retreat into the welcoming warmth of the prickly Republican right-wing cocoon. It's a lot like Southerners defending slavery while forgetting one of Christ's declarations: "the laborer is worthy of his hire" (Luke, 10:7). Which brings me to my second issue.
It is extreme right-wing polemicists like yourself who love to blame "liberals" for all of the evils in our society. You quite naturally blame President Obama for the dynamics which apply now under Donald Trump.
What you refuse to understand--or understand very well--is that the immigration question is, like much of the roiling unrest in America, race-based. John Boehner, when Speaker of the House, allowed to gather dust on his desk an immigration bill because he did not want the black president to have a victory. It's really that simple, sir. And race and religion collide, now and forever, because of the hypocritical thrust of the Republican Party which seeks to sever the sinews of the separation of nation and worship.
Explain this to God, sir.
1
The president's conservative religous supporters are not religious at all. They turn a blind eye to a president who has been married three times, has committed adultery numerous times, lies almost every time he speaks, is cruel, racist and xenophobic.
Being an evangelical is not being part of a religious community but part of a culture that has the same moral deficiencies, except perhaps adultery, as the president.
Expecting them to urge the president to follow the teachings of Jesus and do unto others, suffer not the little children and what you have done to the least of my brethern you also have done unto me is folly.
2
Excellent article.
2
What makes this all so reprehensible is the fact that the cruelty is intentional, ordered by an ignorant, clueless and mean, hate-filled president; and carried out by the eager, low IQ, ignorant dregs of American society.
1
“migration can suddenly cascade, how easily a perceived open door can lead to a dramatic rush to enter”
Isn’t this what Trump has brought us? Isn’t it likely that the overblown rhetoric about the wall and shutting down all immigration has resulted in a rush to get in? Or is this sudden “invasion“ really just coincidental with such rhetoric?
1
@Ira Belsky
It’s coincidental with foreigners south of the border discovering the gaping hole in our immigration laws - that if they have children with them, they won’t be deported.
And who do we have to thank for that?
Obama - because he opened a Pandora’s Box by issuing DACA.
1
Americans find no problem at invading other nations with their corporations . As long as it is business there is no frontier .
Apple, Amazon, Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Starbucks, Netflix, and others , are not fiscally registered in the USA . They are all hiding in Ireland, in the EU, under fake multiple fiduciaries in order to cheat and pay zero taxes while invading the markets and destroying the European economies. The cash money is then repatriated to the US via London exchange and its ties to the US secret offshore banks.
There is no frontier for capitalism, even less for dishonesty. The thousands of lawyers who organize the fiscal fraud in Europe of a magnitude of 20 % of the budget annually, have no respect for the life of workers who pay for them the infrastructures they use, the health insurance and the free public education that European societies rely on.
Then, the same people blame the forced migrants running away from the same abuse their countries have been subjected to, in south America by policies of the USA, in Europe by wars in the middle east for oil , also by global warming caused by nations who don't realize they abuse the resources of the planet with their cars, air planes coal, air conditioning , or simply internet .
1
We must admit that the resurgence of right wing authoritarianism is closely linked to the immigration issue, in Europe and the US. This unholy alliance is one of long standing--land, folk, blood, rings too loud to ignore. Trump is just another pseudo-authoritarian to claim to protect 'the fatherland' in the name of purity but claiming the need to centralize and radicalize power in the process. Which comes first of course the quest or the cause is a useful question.
Douthat, in his quest for every one getting along on his terms, does not notice that tight borders rarely make great countries. Our economy needs more people that our population creates, and it needs them sooner. Douthat wants everything to go at his slow pace.
2
@Jeffrey Lewis
Neither does open borders. Look what’s happened to Germany, Belgium, and France, to name a few.
It is difficult to legally emigrate here be design, partly because of our social safety nets. We simply don’t have a tax base big enough to provide a living for the worlds poor, hence our 22 Trillion in debt.
Unless you think allowing access of Medicaid, food stamps, and section 8 Housing to the millions of the worlds poor is somehow righteous and accomplish “equality”, then we have nothing fitter to discuss. We simply can’t.
1
Sadly, it seems to me that politicians of all stripes are playing the "issue within the issue" game again, immigration is a vote getting or losing issue and how you line up on it depends more on whether you think it will poll well, than actual concern for the poor immigrants.
PS: And where is the UN in all this?
3
Follow the law and arrest/imprison the - ironically Trump-supporting - hypocritical "employers" who hire these exploited workers in the first place. Have "guest worker" programs which provide them the full panoply of U.S Labor Law protections minimum wage, safety standards etc. - while they temporarily reside in the U.S. awaiting their turn with other immigrants from Europe, etc., to obtain legal residence. Pass the "DACA" legislation. Initiate a "Marshall Plan- like" foreign policy which alleviates sometimes horrific, inhumane conditions in the countries from which these workers come from.
6
Ivanka strutting around, performing on the world's stage is pure Trump showboating - like father, like daughter........
Why has she not spoken out, spent her time helping the desperate women and children incarcerated in her father's gulag on our southern border?.......
Do we realize that not a single one of the Trump women - Melania, Ivanka, Ivanka, Marla, Tiffany, etc - none have spoken out, made any public effort to help these guiltless, these desperate, these imprisoned people.......
Is the entire Trump family as soulless, as compassionless as Donald Trump demonstrates he is on an almost daily basis?.......
And if they are, not a single one deserves the high honor the American people have bestowed on this most thankless of families.......
6
Did r you really need to ask the question? The children merely follow the father
1
Trump's base of evangelical fake "Christians" is interested in one issue: put "them uppity women" in their place, keep 'em pregnant, and control their bodies.
Protecting the innocents, which the Bible regarded as paramount, is irrelevant to them, whether the children are newly born or imprisoned on the border.
3
The deadliest illegal American immigration was the invasion and occupation of the Americas and the Caribbean by white European Judeo- Judeo- Christians and their enslaved black African property.
No Americans ever had more of their lands, lives and natural resources stolen from them than brown Native American pioneers.
No Americans ever worked harder and longer for less return than enslaved and separate and unequal black Africans in America.
An estimated 18 million Africans left for the New World during the days of the White European Judeo- Christian Trans- Atlantic Slave Trade. About 12 million survived and a third of those went to Brazil.
An estimated 90% of 50- 100 million Native Americans died as a result of the European invasion of America.
Neither the black African American nor the brown Native American holocaust were the Holocaust.
The Roman Catholic Church played a key role in both crimes against humanity atrocities. Putting a Papal Vatican stamp of approval on the horror.
3
While blaming every side, where's your own mea culpa? Why only now do you use your voice to call upon religious communities to step in? And instead of minimizing AOC, why not admit that she wakes everyone up.
4
A Trump rally flanked by tanks a president lying to the supreme court to help republicans ,putting children in cages starving them having his unqualified daughter as acting sec of state seems to indicate we have a dictator supported by mcconnell and barr for one party rule.
3
U.S. asylum law requires that asylum seekers be present in the United States when they submit applications for asylum. Trump has urged Congress to revise the asylum law to permit Central Americans to apply for U.S. asylum without leaving their home countries. If Congress also revised asylum laws to automatically deny asylum to anyone who enters the country illegally, the tsunami of illegal border crossings would subside.
But Democrats don’t want to stop illegal immigration because it gives states that vote Democratic more congressional seats and Electoral College votes. Overcrowded Border Patrol processing stations permit Democrats to make comparisons to Nazi death camps.
Democrats view the crisis at the border as photo opportunities. On Memorial Day, Border Patrol agents arrested more than 2,200 illegal border crossers in the El Paso Sector—a one-day record. About 1,850 were apprehend as they crossed the Rio Grande into El Paso. The sudden tsunami of illegal border crossers temporary overwhelmed some CPB processing stations, including Clint Station, just as Democratic presidential candidates began televised debates. So Democratic candidates rushed to the El Paso Sector to be photographed deploring “concentration camp conditions.”
4
@William Case. It was interesting that the democratic response to the surge at the border was to basically say we shouldn't have a border or any restrictions on who can come here. This attitude may be one of the few ways trump can get reelected.
3
Since asylum seekers by definition are fleeing political or racial violence in their home nations, I am confused why you would submit them to the same danger that they fear. Do I think many of the applicants are using asylum as a pretext? Of course. Do I think catch and release means a percentage will merely disappear? Of course. Do we know that Trump has disobeyed the law by refusing to allow these applicants to follow the legal procedures in being? Duh!
I am not going to hold up the WW2 internment camps as a great example to follow, except that at the minimum the Japanese-Americans were supplied with the necessities of life, with sanitation, adequate food, living quarters etc.
With a greatly increased number of judges to do an initial separation of the wheat from the chaff and livable temporary camps at least the situation could be ameliorated and we would be spared the disgrace of Clint et al. As for Democrats seeking gain through photo-ops, again Duh! We have President Photo-op and any politician of whatever stripe will leap into a photo-op! Mmm! Maybe if The Trump policies weren’t so inhumane there would be nothing to photograph!
@Steven C. I don't want them to be separated or in the camps. I want them deported to their home countries. The system is not working at any level for the U.S. and it's citizens. The flow of people to this country is going to be unlimited. We need to completely revamp how we are going to handle this. The first place to start is to begin discouraging the human waves at the southern border. It's not good for them or us.
3
"Were Barack Obama’s deportation policies... immoral and un-American, a compromise with fascism that liberalism must now repudiate and permanently leave behind?"
No, we must repudiate **Trump's** zero-tolerance policy in which thousands of children are indiscriminately taken from their parents and tossed in a giant heap of misery, in which seven children have died in just one year - seven - an absolutely unprecedented number. A wave of people fleeing violence meets a wave of American incompetence and cruelty. It all must be repudiated, repealed and halted, period.
2
@Dave
Perhaps they should just emigrate here legally, instead of illegally crossing our border.
I don’t suppose that crossed your mind?
2
We are confronted with the wall and crying babies and starving mothers victims of spousal violence and machismo and corruption gone wild. As we see from the commentary to the various articles this paper has published there is little desire to exclude needy Latinos from the United States. Many writers complain that the wall is designed to exclude people of color from the US and to keep the US white. Others simply say we should take care of our own first. In fact, this debate is an echo of one US 150 years ago. Jefferson and Adams saw Cuba and Puerto Rico as future states in the US. We all learned about Manifest Destiny in school. While some discredited it no one can deny that absent Manifest Destiny Hitler would have won World War 2 because the US would not have had the Texas oil to fuel the war. No one can deny that the average Mexican in Texas or California is far better off than his brothers in Mexico. The continental US is running out of resources. The pressure to immigrate to the US is rapidly increasing. Natives of Mexico and Central America are voting with their feet. They are telling us that their political system does not work and that their leaders and institutions are corrupt. It is very similar to the situation in Northern Mexico in the 1840s. With the land, labor and capital in our hemisphere the US and the entire hemisphere can prosper. Integrating Mexico and Central America into the US is the only effective answer. Nation building does not work.
1
Yeah, Ross, sure. Way to Pastor Niemoller it.
What I mean to say is, try to stop trying to parse out the angels, Ross, and stick up for what’s right.
You know...what’s right, as opposed to your purse?
3
As is often the case after reading something like this, I turn to reader comments - most conveniently the Times Picks - for real folks' insights and consensus. And today, despite the first of these proclaiming an "Excellent, well-balanced article" my fellow commenters do not agree. Indeed they point out much is wrong or neglected here - especially Douthat's inexcusable failure to note that current immigration policy is being driven by the near-maniacal Stephen Bannon. Please read them.
I would only add one point apparently overlooked, and it is that Douthat's (typical) regard for and call to religious conservatives to become a real force for positive change is ridiculous. What? Bite the hand of an administration that feeds you? That upholds your supposedly discriminated against religious liberties? That supports your schools? That packs your courts? That saves all those babies? Ain't gonna happen, Ross. They've made their pact with you know who and what and are beholden and held hostage. So much for conservative religion and it's truest, most meaningful to exercise freedom of expression.
5
Meh....US and Mexico should send troops to the Central American countries where all the trouble is -- and get rid of the root cause of this problem...
1
Remember when the big campaign among Evangelicals was “What Would Jesus Do (WWJD)”? I would like to ask today’s Evangelicals “WWJD” about the children in cages?
5
Central America has a population of about 40 million, and the US could probably absorb all its surplus people without being destroyed. But Africans have begun flying to Guatemala to make their way up through Mexico. Africa has a population of over 1 billion, and 30 million children are born there every year. The number of Africans who would like to come to the US is probably greater than the total population of the US. Letting them all in pending an asylum hearing many might never attend would destroy America.
4
Douthat, give us a break. Beyond all this mind-numbing prattle lies America's sacred covenant: Come here from wherever you are and we will do whatever it takes to accommodate you, because that's what we do, and that's what enriches us.
This is the best and most non partisan piece I've read by Ross. Kudos.
2
Mr. Douthat’s clear bias is revealed in the first paragraph, which divides the country into just two types of people: the “elites” and the “public”. Really? He then gives cartoonish, simplistic, exaggerated positions to all concerned, and wraps it all up with a recommendation that we all get together and meet in some imaginary and undefined middle ground. Mr. Douthat, if you’re going to waste my time stating the obvious, while ticking me off by sneering at misrepresented positions “my kind” supposedly takes, at least you should come up with some sort of useful advice that goes beyond finger wagging. You certainly have the intelligence to do better than this.
3
Christian principles? We live in a country that cherishes the Separation Doctrine as one of its bases in the Constitution, where church and state are legally kept apart. And the true religion of all in the USA is the worship of the Almighty Dollar. As for the hapless immigrants, I work in the same agency charged with coping in this crisis. Coping to house, feed and maintain uninvited throngs of non-English speaking people. All of whom arrived at the border with one objective: to make money. My innumerable criminal cases that have narcotics nexus initiated by ICE all point to one fact: once here, the Latinos readily engage in heroin dealing with its many guns, millions of dollars and incidental human casualties. Let's keep them all on the south side of our country, shall we?
1
TBT; the American Evangelical movement is perfectly fine with abusing immigrants ... "Nuthin' in the Bible about bein' nice to illegals." The hatred and racism that drives our populist Christian movement encompasses Border Control, Health Care, and, well, stupidity.
1
The President of El Salador got this right recently “People don’t flee their homes because they want to,” President Nayib Bukele said Sunday at a news conference in San Salvador, the capital of El Salvador. “They flee their homes because they feel they have to.”
“They fled El Salvador, they fled our country,” he declared. “It is our fault.”
"https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/01/world/americas/nayib-bukele-migrant-deaths.html
as did Fareed Zakaria: "It Pains Me To Say This," But Trump Was Right About Asylum System" https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/07/02/fareed_zakaria_it_pains_me_to_say_this_but_trump_was_right_about_asylum_system.html
The problem is corruption in Latin American governments as well as the US government. Without safety and justice the people perish and making a righteous living is dangerous.
The USA and the West simply can't provide citizenship for the world. People must turn to Jesus Christ and "Love one another as I have loved you". Putting the others first so they can live in peace even if it means sacrificing our own comfort. We must support righteous leaders as defined by the Bible and root out corruption everywhere.
When any child or human being is forced to endure the conditions of Clint, Texas immigrant detention camps, the discussion of immigration is over. This is torture. Obviously, these camps are stupid. Stupid policies lead to insanity, in short order, with any human being. Judgement time is over, and humane responses, from outside, are urgently needed. Where is the Clint, Texas Fire Department? Where is the Clint, Texas Police?
Where is this state's Governor? This house is on fire and the situation is out of control. Where is the emergency accountability for human lives? What in the world is so difficult? These are children living in squalor. It is unsafe. Close this place down now.
1
@purpledot
Yes. And we are forbidden by the semantic police from naming these camps accurately. George Takei, the actor held in a Japanese internment camp as a child—with family—has written broadly on his experience. He says these are indeed, by definition, concentration camps. They are not death camps, but they are what they are:
-Overpopulated metal-fenced enclosures
-Children sleep on the concrete floors, often without blankets
-children go hungry, as there is not enough food. Sometimes fights break out over food, or guards let children work for food
-The space is kept filthy, and lice and flu abound
-Children receive little medical care, and seven have died
-Families are separated
If anyone has a more accurate term for these conditions I have yet to hear it. These are concentration camps. We fail to name a thing what it is at our peril.
1
Douthat: You’re linking to a random twitter feed posting photos from Breitbart to bolster your argument? Seriously?
3
"It gave us a restrictionist president who mixes ineffectiveness in legislating, incompetence in administration, and an impulse toward “toughness” as the response to every challenge — one that easily becomes a license for cruelty when a crisis hits. "
********
If those in his adminstration and the GOPers in congress were to challenge Trump, demand that he see the issues logically and as they are not as he pretends they are, perhaps that cruelty and inept behavior could be decreased or stopped entirely.
Trump is president, NOT king. There are limits by law to what he can do, and if he continues to push the envelope and absolutely no one will stand against him, he will only becomes worse especially if he wins again in 2020.
There is a crisis south of Mexico that is manifesting at our border by an influx of refugees and asylum seekers.
There is another crisis which is 10+ Million illegal immigrant already in this country for many many years with no path to a legal status including people brought in as infants.
Those two things are being conflated and added to a discussion about legal immigration as well to stir fear in part of the electorate.
Yes the US will not be majority "white" in the future regardless of immigration fluxes. Demographics and differential birth rate will make it happened. Mixed marriage will make that happen...
I don't care!
There is nothing special about being "white" that should offer any privilege. History, culture can be shared.
Societies are created by sharing common values, lets start with humanism and respect of every human life. Xenophobia is just the opposite of that. It has a corroding effect on many other values once you make human life respect conditional.
Treating a few hundred thousand refugees as an existential crisis, is a distraction. Trade wars and made up excuses for military adventures cost us a lot more than letting more people in.
Still we should invest in mitigating the problem in central America because it would help more people than just the people that could flee these countries. That would be the right thing to do.
A very thoughtful article but Mr. Douthat still falls short in one area, the separation of children. They are separated so that victims of child sex-trafficking an be identified as well as to determine whether the child is actually part of the "family" that he or she came with. Both are reasonable & proper things to do. Should the system move faster? Yes. But it's also hard to keep up with waves of immigrants that have been coming in ever increasing numbers. So I suggest we stop demonizing the efforts and concentrate on finding solutions.
Well said. I am a college government instructor and could have given the same final exam for the past six years: a proposed immigration plan that gave something to both liberals and conservatives. I remember fondly the Gang of Eight. At least they tried, and BTW, shame on Marco Rubio for distancing himself from their plan. He lost whatever respect I might have given him. Count me as one of those moderate Democrats who is grateful for Nancy Pelosi in all the noise.
1
While I appreciate the accuracy of the writer's critique in many respects, I find his blame of Obama, as though immigration policies started with him, to be overstated. There's no good response to immigration nor any real enforcement without updating immigration policy. There must be a path to citizenship for those who are already here and paying taxes that doesn't take over two decades and can be more responsive to economic reality. DACA needs to be passed. And visas need to be more available for those who have family in the U.S. as least for the time being. The Republicans have been kicking this can down the road for half a century. We also need a better plan to help our Southern neighbors, so that they won't have to flee or seek a living elsewhere. Plans for economic development that can sustain life are lacking, here and abroad. No, overwhelming a country with poor immigrants is not a good thing; but throwing children in cages isn't going to work either. Is there anyone who can manage gray reality instead of harping on extremes?
A well-balanced perspective indeed. Yet the real challenge is getting people in authority and with power to promote policies consistent with this balanced perspective, and not just promote, but fight for with all their might and energy. Without such political action, these words by Douthat are just nice thoughts on paper, soon to be buried and forgotten under the vitriol from the two extremes.
How do we transform great ideas into strong action?
We don't need Christian values or emotion soaked diatribes when it comes to immigration. We need laws based on sober facts and reality and what is best for the citizens of this country. The greatest wave of immigration to the U.S. was not the Ellis island era. It has been the last 50 years. We are now the 3rd most populous country on earth (~330 million). We produce 25% or GH gasses and consume 25% of the planets resources. We have an unsustainable population and economy currently. Adding people to this country contributes to: climate change, urban crowding, loss of open space and wild life, accelerated resource use, higher health care costs, school crowding, housing shortages, commute times, pollution, and it is an accelerating cycle due to birthright citizenship (and birth tourism), chain migration and on and on. Our asylum and immigration laws need to be changed to reflect a world that is being threatened by climate change and the instability that comes from run away population growth and the upheaval that comes with it. Infinite population growth, with no restrictions,as the democrats have proposed defies physics and reality. We do not live in a bubble on this planet as the right wants to think. We should be reducing our population and moving towards a sustainable economy and numbers that are compatible with longterm harmony with the natural world. We should be helping other countries do the same. moving millions more here does none of this.
10
Just give me a break! Here's an idea: Why doesn't NYT do what subscribers expect: Actually do some due diligence and investigative journalism:
Investigate the actual cost/annually for U.S. Taxpayers to support, yes, "illegal" immigrants. Forbes says it's 18.5 BL. and they are at the low end.
$11K/year per kid for school.
Jeez....another wild idea: Why don't t you go interview people who are legal, American citizens, paying taxes for their school systems who can't get a decent education for their kids becuz resources are diverted to ESL, etc. for illegal immigrants.
Check out Houston and South Cali.
Just a small, beginning clue....can you follow it and come up with the goods???
6
I have a hard time when conservatives - the people currently wielding almost all the power - tell liberals what we should do. Trump's inhumane immigration policies would not be possible without the complicity of other Republicans. Take this sentence: "[The backlash] ... gave us a restrictionist president who mixes ineffectiveness in legislating, incompetence in administration, and an impulse toward 'toughness' as the response to every challenge — one that easily becomes a license for cruelty when a crisis hits." Congress was supposed to provide a check against such a president. It has failed utterly because of Republicans in Congress.
Having said that, I agree there is a gap between the position of the so-called liberal elites and the public's attitude towards immigration. Indeed, there is a gap between the position of the loudest liberals and reality. I knew we were in trouble when people circulated photos from the Obama years (children in cages, aluminum blankets) as evidence of Trump's cruelty and said they "didn't care" when the errors were pointed out.
I know there are liberals and moderates who believe the solution has to be somewhere in the middle. I talk to people like this every day, but they're not the angry voices with huge Twitter followings. As for my conservative friends, when I try to meet them halfway, they don't budge.
I'm pretty sure I just wrote a comment that's likely to piss off everyone.
If I remember correctly it was not the "elite consensus" but the consensus of business owners and the well-off who wanted unlimited migration so that they could have cheap labor to work at jobs most Americans would not do, such as farming, landscaping, housework, taking care of children or the elderly, nurses aids, etc.
The answer could be simpler if that is what everyone really wanted. I am not for Illegal Immigration, but I am for constructing more points of entry so that asylum seekers can be processed and allowed entry. I believe that most people who come here want a better life for their families. A safer country with better sanitary conditions, better schools, health care for their families and a chance at making at least a better wage than where they come from. These immigrants want exactly what the rest of us want.
We all got here the same way. A lot of our ancestors were illegal immigrants who did manage to become American citizens.
Remember, the the first immigrants came here for Religious freedom and in turn stole land from the natives. At least these Immigrants are not coming here to steal our lands, but to better their circumstances. Every human being wants that.
Every human except for the Trump family, the Trumpsters and the Republicans in Congress.
I personally am ashamed of the treatment of these families by our Government They are not criminals. They are desperate to stay safe, to have a chance at a decent life.
1
Thankfully Douthat points the finger at the right wing “religious” who find reasons to ignore the cruelty done in our name at the border.
Caging children, calling them criminal, and treating them worse than prisoners of war are inexcusable deeds. Nothing justifies them.
Immigration will always pose difficult problems. And solutions which work for one era might not for the next. But our solutions should be consistent with our values, our ideals. And this poses a problem for our amoral, transactional President and his fervent supporters.
1
Unspoken in this debate is the contrast between European immigration during the early 1900s to supply labor to our steel mills and coal mines and immigration today where those industries have been gutted by NAFTA and environmental regulations.
NAFTA harmed America’s middle class by moving millions of high-paying manufacturing jobs to Mexico. This slowed immigration from Mexico but not Central America. Can the USA’s middle class now afford promoting job creation in Central America?
2
This article affirms my feeling that the “crisis” at the Mexico border is a result of our two political parties having a continuing relationship breakdown, and not much more.
It started about 20 years ago. Rush Limbaugh and AM talk radio developed the idea for people who would see migrants on their city streets. They saw brown families needing education, police services, medical, etc., and they felt robbed. They recoiled from the idea that their tax dollars would be supporting them.
This idea was not really new (similar to any rejection of diversity we have seen in America) and it appealed to people in rural areas.
Now this idea has grown to a fight, and it should not be.
This article identifies solutions, but people must give up on the fight first, and it doesn’t look like they want to give it up and find a solution.
Too little is written about the global causes of migration. The problems at borders, whether southwest USA, southern Italy, or Australia’s island detention centers, involve issues not solved by walls and criminalization. When will enlightened world leaders apply themselves to these solvable but international problems? Certainly nationalism as in “America First” is an unsatisfactory solution.
@John. Every year we add 80 million net people to a planet already awash in humans. Central America has seen its populations grow by 4-6 x since the 50s. Africa now has ~a billion people and adds 30 million extra per year. The main cause of people wanting to move west is very simple- we are producing far more people than this planet can support. Until we acknowledge this reality nothing will get better. Numbers are numbers, no matter how we feel about them.
2
Thoughtful and even- handed article on incendiary topic. But, you forgot to raise two significant points. Trump’s cancellation of aid and diplomatic support to the Central American countries whose instability has fueled this most recent migration and employers’ culpability (and by extension us) in making the US an attractive destination for a better life.
We have a mixed history of supporting and undermining our Central American neighbors (mostly bad). But the use of soft power by the US, has helped stabilize these economies which can go a long way to alleviating the conditions that lead people to flee their own country.
Illegal migrant labor fueled the US building boom of the early 2000. We all benefited from the cheap labor, especially business. When the recession came, the majority of (Mexican) immigrants left because the work went away. Employers who hire illegal immigrants need to be prosecuted. If no one hires them, they will go someplace else. You can’t have it both ways, (but we sure try). Until we enforce this, immigrants will continue to come here to seek a better life. If were going to look the other way with regards to employers, I say leave the immigrants alone, unless they commit actual criminal activities. I wont hold my breath.
2
This article makes no mention of the source of the problem: dangerous conditions in the countries from which immigrants are fleeing. As much as we should fix our immigration system, we should also engage in activities which lead to improvements in the conditions in those countries.
4
The root causes of mass migrations are war and inequality, the inequality due to economics and environmental change. The Us and Europe are experiencing economic inequality and will soon be experiencing uneven world wide energy change. Douthat writes about arguments of bandaids that do nothing to address the root causes, which are nonetheless necessary to limit undue suffering.
2
Mr Douthat,
Very much enjoyed reading your views on this complicated issue. I also support your recognition that we need our politics to come to terms with solutions and not stayed mired in tribalism and dysfunction.
One quick question for you, why do you tag the words "elite" and "consensus" together. You did so three times in this piece. In your mind, what does "elite consensus" mean?
Is it a left issue only? A right issue only? Applies to both? Is it something that transcend politics, for example religion? Do you use it to suggest that its something that damages America or empowers America?
Just curious.
6
Migration will continue unabated for multiple reasons from poor governance to planetary physics.
So let’s embrace it, leverage it, and use it to solve other infrastructure problems.
Set up processing centers on rural Native American reservations. In essence, create a multi billion industry that will drive a construction, services, healthcare, 5G network and food growing resource boom in exactly the parts of the country that have been most neglected. It’s a golden opportunity to solve multiple rural problems, act humanely, and plan strategically.
2
@Told you so. How is migration going to solve infrastructure problems?
For a sovereign nation controlling ones borders is definitional. When hundreds of thousands of people show up and a system never designed to handle the numbers or the new mix of families verses the previous single men looking for work it is going to be a mess at least in the short term. But the real issue is still whether we are going to allow people to show up, demand entry, and be allowed to stay. That would bad for multiple reasons; it creates an incentive for more people to follow in ever greater numbers, it is a stick in the eye to people who follow the legal immigration rules, it is overwhelming social service systems in the border states, and finally we are as nation of laws should be deciding who comes here.
13
@Todd
Amen. I don't understand why others do not see these simple truths you state. We can't save the world. We can't continue to be a country if our laws are not respected by foreigners, but most alarmingly by American citizens, who believe it's OK to enter illegally just because you need help and, as you said, to stick it to all those who are requesting legal entry (and are often turned away for no reason at all).
1
This isn't a pox on both your houses situation, So-called Christians are going to need a road to Damascus movement to realize they have embraced the policies of an Administration whose immigration policy is directed by a man who literally doesn't accept the text at the base of the Statue of Liberty and favors a shock and awe enforcement regime that is simultaneously less efficient and more cruel than Obama's policies. Those policies were a good faith effort to reach an accord on an immigration policy that was pragmatic, human and non-racist. People who oppose Trump's policies just need to remember that the alternative to open borders is not incompetence and cruelty, whether accidental or intentinal, but rationakl policymaking that identifies our economic needs and mitigates conditions causing the outflow from te Triangle.
2
@GeorgeCoyle. Sorry, but a poem on the Statue of Liberty doesn’t define immigration policy. If that were true, illegals would be coming through Ellis Island.
Ross, can you and your fellow Republican columnists please lose the "elite consensus" trope when it comes to immigration!
I live in a modest town on the CT shore where most of the hard day work is done by Mexicans and immigrants from Central America...I am talking about construction, landscaping, crewing oyster boats.
None of my very middle class neighbors are up in arms about this and wondering if perhaps these folks are illegally taking jobs from real Americans who want them. Does that make my neighbors part of the "elite consensus?"
Guess what? Real Americans don't want these jobs. I know. I talk to the contractors and owners of landscape businesses and the oyster boat captains and they say they couldn't find so-called native born workers if they increased wages considerably. That is
true from the orchards of California to the farming country of Iowa to the Connecticut coast.
The vast majority of these people are hard workers who care about their families. They are good people. They've created a host of new restaurants and stores in my little town that add a colorful new dimension to an old New England place.
We should treat these folks as humanely as possible while trying to make their path to citizenship easier. That is NOT elitist. That is living by the Golden Rule!
15
@History Guy I do not say that you are incorrect. That you are not telling the truth. But what happened? When I was young I worked on construction, and as a waiter and bus boy, and on the assembly line in a Wisconsin canning factory. I have driven a taxi. I have also worked with many other American citizens, including many African -Americans, doing all of these jobs. Americans have taken care of what has needed to be done for centuries and there should not need to be an influx of immigrants now to do these things. We do have too many people living in our country now. America is being paved over. We have over 320 million citizens, double the number of when I was in high school. We do not have millions of acres of free land, or factories requiring thousands of foreign workers. We need a policy where we have a slowly decreasing population. And this means severely limiting immigration, legal and illegal.
1
Holds true throughout this land.
True wisdom, Ross. I hope elected leaders and the public listen and act. If the current situation cannot be significantly mitigated, then heart wrenching images of drowned toddlers clutching their drowned young fathers will recur and perhaps even worse will follow.
Still, I am continuously disappointed and amazed that US political leaders across the spectrum are not calling out the corrupt elites who oppress the asylum seekers' countries of origin as the real source of this agony, instead of using our squalid camps as backdrops for partisan photo ops. Why are the citizens of these counties desperate to the point death get out? (Note to those tired of hearing how great America is: these would-be refugees put themselves and their families in jeopardy to get in. Maybe we are at least that great.)
It's as if there's a subtle, pervasive chauvinism embedded in the American psyche, where our sense of exceptionalism enables us to expect so little of the rest of the world. Or, maybe our elites are their elites and vice-versa.
Lastly, Mexico deserves some praise in all of this. Most of the asylum seekers come from countries outside of Mexico and use it as a land bridge to the US southern border. While Mexico is not "detaining" them in the same fashion we are, they nonetheless must keep them alive, providing food, water, shelter and medical care. If there is a public health security risk associated with all this migration, then Mexico bears a far greater burden than the US.
4
Many of the European countries do not allow chain migration even for their citizens who have moved to a foriegn country. Many European countries do not allow for citizenship of just anyone born in their country. They must have at least one parent who is a Citizen.
How do I know this?
My grandfather was born in Denmark. As his granddaughter I cannot seek citizenship in Denmark because that is not a close enough relationship.
My son was born in France. When he was born we were told not to visit France when he was a young man as he could be conscripted into the military.
Now however, even though he was born in France he is not eligible for citizenship because neither of his parents were French citizens.
Perhaps chain migration and children born in the United States of non citizens should likewise be denied citizenship.
13
Oh that Darn Constitution! Let’s just amend it and get rid of all the bits we don’t like!
And yet you are able to become an American even if you were born abroad with only one American parent, see Ted Cruz (but not Barack Obama ,Donald).
However if you’re thinking about amending the Constitution, as we NYers say, “Fuhgeddabahtit!” No Amendment of any substance beyond one declaring all puppies, kittens and babies shall be deemed cute would pass Congress with the required 2/3 vote, and even if that were to occur try to think of anything that would not be opposed by 13 or more States!
With respect you chose for your son not to be a French citizen albeit for a decent reason, and you paid the consequences, which clearly you failed to check into at that time. And your son is not barred, I assume, for applying for immigration and then ultimately for citizenship to either country. I will assume he is a citizen of some country, and I’ll guess the US.
And has he become a French citizen as a child, he could have avoided military service by following the example of our illustrious President and got a friendly bribed podiatrist to diagnose shin splints!
@Steven C
He wouldn't have been drafted by either country, not because he had bone spurs, but because he is profoundly hearing impaired, which likely would prevent him from even immigrating to France.
Clearly lays out the problem but, alas, offers no solution except the Democrats and Trump ought to behave better.
I can agree with that much, but what would this "better" be?
4
Ross, this is straight from Wikipedia. I post it rhetorically to answer the question you end your article with: yes, this is both incredibly cynical, epically so, and un-American in any sense of the word our founders would have understood.
Why are they coming here in droves? They are fleeing a country we have systematically destroyed the democratic potential of.
With what has been released by the CIA we know that due to the United States 1954 coup and the installation of militarized leadership more than 100,000 Guatemalan citizens have been killed. The U.S. utilized forms of physical and psychological torture to break down Guatemalans into submission.
The goal of the PBSUCCESS was to instill fear and terror throughout the Guatemalans. The Americans believed that by creating terror within Guatemala, it would in turn disassemble the Guatemalan government[1]. The coup was articulated to appear as if the Soviets had been at fault for the chaos.
As a result, the Guatemalans did up-rise and overthrow their government. Driven with the false belief that the Soviets were responsible for their suffering, the Guatemalans turned to the United States for asylum and guidance. The PBSUCCESS coup was a success for the United States' efforts to combat communism and the Soviet Union.
The PBSUCCESS coup was a sheer display of the power and risks the United States were willing to take to avoid losing valued nations to communism.
5
What compromise solution is possible? Both parties are held hostage by their radical fringes. Proposing decriminalization of illegally crossing the border translates to open borders to the middle of the political spectrum. Can't wait to see how many more policies the Democrats can come up with to help Trump in 2020. God help us.
6
While Ross is somewhat unfair in his attempt to equally apportion the blame as to how we got here his larger point on the huge divide between the Democratic Presidential field and the concerns of most voters is 100 % correct. Pretending control over immigration isn't a major national security issue is absurd. Suggestions that ICE be eliminated , detention centers shut down and that non citizens be given health care insurance are chapter 1 in how to reelect Trump and make the situation worse.
It may well be true that all of the candidates are for a reasonable and rational approach to real reform but in their pandering to the base they sound as if they believe in open borders. Somebody has to step up and talk like an adult.
12
There is a direct line from US foreign policy, e.g. the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, Operation PBSUCCESS, a covert operation carried out by CIA which deposed the democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo Árbenz, through every following year and administration to the present, to the crisis on our southern border. Every President has been complicit. Let's dispense with the "liberal" label. It is vague to the point of having no meaning. Yes, this policy has been immoral and un-American. Period. We have no idea what our vaunted "freedoms" have cost in innocent lives everywhere in the world.
4
You are right about how we backed the wrong side in Guatemala. But, please, don’t forget about how the US military took control of Panama to build a canal; how United Fruit occupied the northern coast of Honduras for their own profit and how we put guns in the hands of young boys to fight the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. The Good Neighbor Policy has always been one sided. It is time we found a better way to be neighbors with this beautiful isthmus and it’s wonderful people.
There is a direct line from US foreign policy, e.g. the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, Operation PBSUCCESS, a covert operation carried out by CIA which deposed the democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo Árbenz, through every following year and administration to the present, to the crisis on our southern border. Every President has been complicit. Let's dispense with the "liberal" label. It is vague to the point of having no meaning. Yes, this policy has been immoral and un-American. Period. We have no idea what our vaunted "freedoms" have cost in innocent lives everywhere in the world.
2
Thank you Mr Douthat, for a sane and cogent analysis of our current, completely polarized situation. Obviously, the neglect and cruelty at our southern border is intolerable and inexcusable. But we must maintain the distinction between LEGAL and ILLEGAL entry, a distinction that has been blurred or obliterated in recent years. I voted for Obama twice, and for Clinton in 2016, but I cannot support any Democratic candidate foolish enough to decriminalize the act of entering the U.S. without papers or permission. This would be like a giant neon sign saying to the World, "Hey everyone, come on In." De facto open borders would be the end of this country-- complete inundation and chaos. Climate change is already responsible for much of the migration in both hemispheres, and this is only going to only going to get worse. The U.S. and Europe cannot be the "lifeboat" for the rest of the World.
11
At its core, the immigration issue is not about morality or ethics, it is about the law. Our laws are supposed to reflect our ethics, not the application of our laws. Do we live in a Society that abides by the law or do we cynically only enforce those laws with which we agree? What happens, when as now, we cannot agree on the law? The democrats have opened the door to selective enforcement of immigration law and the law of unintended consequences is now in force. Perhaps, selective enforcement of our laws to tax evasion will be next, or even sexual predation. Some will claim these inconsistencies in legal enforcement already occur, and they would be correct, but not at the scale of our current immigration debacle. What he have now is chaos on US immigration which is the result of perverse incentives in our immigration law and a risk is that this chaos extends to attempts to resolve all of our contentious issues. Both parties have an obligation to solve the core issue of immigration with new, comprehensive legislation now. The extremes on the right and left can be excused from the process. Any legislator that stands in the way of progress should be removed from office at the next election.
9
Not mentioned (by anyone really) is finding a foreign policy that directs more economic aid to Central America. And, yes, spare me your ongoing protests that it just goes to support “corrupt regimes”. We have to find ways to encourage more of these immigrants to find a reason to stay in their home countries. Economic aid, encouragement of real democratic reforms, etc. I don’t believe many at our border are truly seeking political asylum but are looking for new and better economic opportunities.
We’ve also learned the limits of “catch and release” in the U.S. Mot of the “problem” are people overstaying their visas. Those folks need to be the focus of ICE and returned to their home countries. There is also a difference in opinion on the value of migrant labor here in Texas, as well as New Mexico, Arizona and California. Sadly, our economies benefit from a surplus of labor that is willing to work hard, but also is scared of being deported. George W Bush understood this and was on his way to making some changes when the focus turned on 9/11.
6
Money without reform is a potential waste. Don’t fill the pool with water before the foundation cracks are fixed.
I never expect much from Douhat and he fulfills that every time by constantly turning to the tactic of false equivalence. To use sports analogies, there is a big difference between tackling an opponent and clotheslining him, between sliding into second and spiking the fielder, between blocking and chop-blocking. The current administration has purposefully chosen enforcement akin to the latter knowing the hometown refs will look the other way.
9
The Trump Administration lacks empathy and heart. The Dems lack common sense and also a sense of moderation. With or without support, Trump has embarrassed the Divided States on a near daily basis in the eyes of the world, with the deplorable conditions at the border just the latest episode. And the Republican Party backs him in his every deed , if not word.
Dems like Ocasio-Cortez et. al, on the other hand, do little other than to exacerbate the anti immigrant tone in the country by calling for reckless policies which would virtually empty Central American countries at our doorstep, an untenable consideration for most rational Americans. Since America will usually address no issue before it's critical, the time is ripe for the development and implementation of an immigration policy which reflects the values of America while respecting the concerns of all of our citizens. The immigration mess has been and is the responsibility of both political parties. If they can't get their act together , maybe it's a sign we need a third political party which focuses on rational thinking, rather than narrow interests.
12
While your criticism of some members of the Democratic Party may be valid, in reality Ms Pelosi and the Congressional Democrats are much more pragmatic. And I suspect once a Democratic Presidential Candidate is nominated the wilder ideas will fade from his/her repertoire. Unlike the primaries where candidates are appealing to a more radical electorate ( in both parties), in the General Election with its more diverse makeup candidates tend to want to appeal to a wider range of voters. Cynical? Sure. Realistic? Certainly!
The challenge of crafting a constructive immigration policy is exacerbated by the increasing tendency to view the nation's problems in a binary and simplistic manner. Not every issue, let alone every solution, should be viewed in such a fashion, and therein likes the real problem we are facing.
Too many of our leaders and population want to define immigration in a simplistic, good vs. bad way, either turning the faucet wide open or completely shutting it off. Period.
Neither is a solution. There is heavy lifting involved, much as there was when John F. Kennedy committed America to putting a man on the moon and marshaled the nation's resources and intellect to achieve that goal.
Unfortunately, we are in the midst of an era where an insufficient number of circles overlap, and where reaching consensus is increasingly impossible when rampant emotionalism rather than considered judgment rules the day. Fear, and hatred as well, drives many who would prefer to simply slam shut the national gate, and who wrongly accuse the more open minded among us of preferring wide open borders.
As is always the case, the answer lies somewhere in the middle, but it also requires the hard work of wrestling with complex realities and a dedication of resources, something that our national leadership is increasingly reluctant to do.
Moreover, it requires a collective national conscience, which may be an even bigger problem, and a demand that our leadership actually do their jobs.
8
Well said! The biggest complexity at the moment is the fact that too many are simply not willing to deal with reality. Rather than face it they prefer to ignore the complexities.
2
My own sensibility is that we need to restructure immigration as directed immigration- settling immigrants in states that want them and need them for their tax base and entrepreneurship, instead of continuing to overwhelm the few states that are fiscally underwater with the public costs of immigration. Without that course correction directing new immigrants to home states that welcome them, Douthat's reference to the widening gyre is apt:
Turning and turning in the widening gyre, The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand.
Surely we can bring our best minds together instead of pandering to extremes. Small children are dying, their innocence is literally and horrifically drowning, and only the adults in the room can save them.
8
While your “directed” immigration idea has some merit, it might well be unConstitutional, forcing people to live in any particular State.
If I recall correctly President Obama called for immigration reform more than once during his tenure. The right pretty much refused anything other than lip service. I can not imagine that given the current state of extreme polarization and a mindless president that anything might get done during his tenure. A humanitarian crisis does indeed exist and it does not begin at our border.
To top all that off it stands to reason that no matter what might get done the situation will get exponentially worse when climate change is factored in. Regions to the south will be driven north for no other reason than survival. They will have no other choice. What happens then? Do we recognize their plight and take them in or do we massacre them in order to protect our own survival?
I know this all sounds a bit over the top but the beginning stages are here and they are very real. As I see it the only chance humanity has is to accept that drastic changes will be necessary and must be dealt with at a global level. The harsh reality here is that we can’t even deal with the flow of people in good times, meaning the worst is yet to come and it won’t be pretty. Think Mad Max only a bit more sane version over water, food and living space as opposed to fuel. Fuel will be the least of our worries.
11
Usually when there is a crisis, be it Trump made or not there is money to be made. Once AI takes over small and medium size businesses a lot of migrants will stop coming here from Mexico and Central America. It’s the next group of immigrants with college degrees coming to America from Asian countries that should worry non-college educated middle and eastern Americans. The future is here and sadly a huge swath of Americans didn’t hear the hints as town after town began to be hollowed out in the seventies and eighties. Until we as a whole start voting with our brains and not with our emotions this kind of stuff we go on for the next fifty years.
6
Nothing would do more to re-elect Trump than extending public benefits to illegal immigrants. Taxes paid by Americans should be used first to extend public benefits to Americans. The Medicaid cap is a total joke and should be raised. Imagine that you are paying taxes to extend healthcare to illegal immigrants when you cannot afford healthcare. Sometimes the Democratic candidates remind me of Tzar Nicholas II. Total disconnect from reality. Make Americans economically secure and they will become more welcoming to immigrants.
27
@NSf Yes I totally agree. We are headed for another 4 years of Trump due to the Democrat's illogical stance on immigration. Go to the Heartland and find out what people want w/r/t immigration. It's not the same as what those in SFO want - quite the opposite.
4
With illegal immigration now part of the political playing field the truth has become a casualty of war. The Left visits a camp and decries the conditions as inhumane, the Right visits a camp and decries the lies of the Left instead insisting conditions are reasonable. Who is telling the truth? That depends on who you believe. Since the MSM lean Left to Far Left that's the view most commonly heard, but is it true? Conversely even if conditions are to be improved - toothbrushes and basic necessities provided to kids for instance, will the Democrat controlled Congress provide funds to permit this to happen when they can blame Trump for the suffering of those kids instead? Perhaps it's not just the truth that is a casualty of the war between Left and Right, but the kids too.
5
"As migration rates increase exponentially..."
No it doesn't. If you look at immigration as a percentage of US population, the trend oscillates between about 15 and 5 percent. This is true all the way back to 1840 when we began keeping records.
Immigration is actually closer to the historical norm right now. There are simply more US citizens. Therefore, the immigration numbers look huge in absolute terms but in reality they're not. Aging Boomers, a large component of Trump's base, are simply used to below average immigration levels. Their expectations are the anomaly.
That said, I don't agree with decriminalization or undocumented benefits. However, I'm not particularly alarmed by the announcements either. Democratic candidates are pandering. We all know Democrats can't get a major immigration overhaul through Congress even with both houses. You don't need to go running in fear to Joe Biden's ancient version of confused moderate liberalism. The fact is whoever becomes President isn't going to be able to accomplish much.
If anything passes at all, it will most likely resemble Beto O'Rourke's quasi-communicated policy position. 1) An end to all Trump's executive actions. 2) A strengthening of our existing asylum laws. 3) Added protections for those asylum seekers. 4) The money to fund the asylum system properly.
That's the most "extreme" policy we'll see whether Democrats are willing to admit it yet or not.
3
I know several border patrol agents in real life through the martial arts community and I regularly see their posts on social media. Until Trump they were generally reasonable folks and respectful of other views, albeit very conservative in expressing their own views. Now their posts paint a picture of extreme anger at having their secret Facebook group broken up. One post eulogized the group as “a good thing broken up by hateful liberals” after confirming with others that no one has yet been in any trouble over posts in the group. Unfortunately, without the secret group they are no longer remotely civil in public posts and I wonder if closing the group just took away their snark-safe-zone safety-valve. Now they lash out almost constantly at anything perceived to be left-leaning and the vitriol they are spewing is getting more extreme by the day. This really makes me worry about the safety of immigrants they might encounter, about the culture in the border patrol, and about the mental health of CBP agents in general right now.
7
@Jason Given the Left is depicting them as enemies of the people, folk who should be named, shamed, and driven from their jobs protecting America, is it any wonder?
Polices themselves merit discussion and debate through the lens of morality, but so do the ways in which those policies are implemented. President Trumps has weaponized ICE and border protection agents in a manner that enables inhuman conditions and immoral treatment of both asylum seekers and those crossing our borders illegally. It is this decision-making discretion that distinguishes much of what is occurring now from previous administrations.
6
Jeh Johnson, the Secretary of Homeland Security in the Obama Administration wrote an excellent op-ed in today's Washington Post. He explains the Obama Administration approach to immigration and how it is different from Trump's approach. Felons were immediately sent back while those without criminal records were allowed to remain in the US while their immigration and asylum cases were processed. The borders were secure, the number of undocumented immigrants was reduced by nearly 2 million people, and there were no squalid camps or child separations. In short, for all his bluster and pandering to his base, Trump has reversed another Obama policy: successful border control. Another in a long line of Trump failures.
12
@G. James I lived in Mexico during the Obama administration and my town had several people who had been deported, not once but two, three and four times. They were invariably gang members, repeat offenders and had committed some pretty awful crimes. They had been taken to the states as kids and joined gangs, because they lived in ghettos and failed to integrate. Mostly the fathers had left, the mothers worked as made and the kids looked after their five siblings when they were in the US. On return, the people in the town hated them, because they brought with them gang culture and opened a gang bar. In listening to their stories, they might have been considered 'dreamers' had they not been caught and sent back. They left behind children, wives, girlfriends who all received some sort of benefits and these guys ended up selling drugs because no one they would get hired by tour companies or hotels for their English, but they would end up partying and not show up for work. Obama was right to deport them.
1
Evidence immigration is either the most difficult issue to resolve or the most convenient to leave alone. Bush 2000 and Obama 2008 originally campaigned to put together ‘comprehensive immigration reform’. Both newly elected had the majority in both houses of Congress to do so. Neither did. Make excuses such as Sept 11 for Bush and Great Recession for Obama. But that is hogwash. Legislative initiative is not a limited business where only one item can be addressed. Anybody with multiple kids or jobs or responsibilities knows that life involves multitasking. Trump 2016 also had both House and Senate upon being elected. His platform was one of crisis rather than simply reform. However, likewise he and the Republican Congress did nothing.
8
Since I am one of President Trump's religious supporters, perhaps I should make some observations. In the United States, we have laws with respect to illegal immigration. The laws were not passed by President Trump, but as Chief Executive he has a duty to enforce them. Illegal immigration involves hundreds of thousand, or millions of people, each year. It cannot be analyzed or resolved by anecdotal stories about a few hundred children, even though there is never a reason to treat even one child unkindly. In this country, we by force of law separate hundreds of thousands of children each year from their parents because of the actions of various state Children & Youth protective services; or because their parents or guardian are incarcerated. Every child, every family, every prisoner, has a personal, anecdotal story to tell. If we are not going to apply and enforce immigration laws, what will we enforce? What is the point of Congress even convening to pass law, if whatever law they pass doesn't matter, should be disregarded or enforcement suspended? The economic impact of illegal immigration of enforcement is massive, especially on some segments of our community which do not have many good press agents. Which is why the program of unlimited immigration has met with such a crushing electoral rebukes all over the world. Generally, the people who write on this topic have college degrees; the people who suffer the reality of illegal immigration do not.
8
Seeking asylum is not illegal immigration. It is a legal petition upon arrival without prior approval for a supposed hardship that fits into certain legal definitions to be adjudicated. How do you square the international asylum laws to the US immigration laws and operations ? That is the crux of one problem among the many in immigration management.
16
You don’t know the economic impact of illegal immigration. For every study that claims negative impact there is another that claims the opposite.
Take your most extreme example and compare it with the negative impact of tax loopholes and shelters designed for and practiced by the 1 percent. Why does Apple claim to be Irish?
Fix this problem before you blame the most helpless among us for our “woes”. We’re lucky people, we should act like it.
@Suburban Cowboy Asylum is the usual catchcry of illegals though. As for definitions, it's funny how flexible those can be! Economic migrants are frequently deemed legitimate asylum seekers, while those who will be killed if returned home deemed ineligible for asylum. The big difference seems not to be the suffering or risks involved, but whether the applicant is a member of a privileged group, or a despised one - Yazidi, Christian, German etc.
While the points Ross raises are valid, they certainly do not provide a workable solution to the problem, which in some way has to involve improving conditions in certain Central American countries.
5
The writer makes good points, but it is all for nothing unless he can convince Republican politicians to vote for a compromise immigration bill. Compromises on immigration have come up a number of times - and it is not Democrats who oppose them, it is Republicans (a minority perhaps) and/or their president who back away.
Democrats may be of the left, but they DO compromise. Republican don't.
4
@Terry McKenna That's not the view on the Right which holds that Republicans always compromise, but that when they meet Democrats halfway Democrats insist on a new compromise. Until Republicans are fully Left their compromises will be insufficient to satisfy Democrats.
3
Yes, more time is spent on spin than solutions.
Our Constitution establishes a representative democracy, not an aristocracy or an oligarchy. Americans do not vote for their policy preferences, even through the indirect means of voting for party committed to specific program as in parliamentary systems. Yet throughout American history there has been a strong commitment to majority rule. Certainly "majority" in early America meant a majority of white, property-owning males and certainly there has always been an uneasy tension between the majoritarian commitment and the economic elites' fear of that commitment. Equally certainly the history of America has been largely defined by continual broadening of the franchise. If the majority is not to govern, then why have so many generations of Americans fought so hard to ensure that all adults have the right to vote? Has the achieved goal of every successful social movement in the nation's history in the end proven empty and meaningless? The very reason we now have Trump is a majoritarian reaction to the refusal by a small self-appointed minority of both left and right wing so-called elites to accept the policy, social, values and moral preferences of the majority . A minority of a small minority. We will not thrive or perhaps even survive in a hostile world unless we can come together to solve our problems. We will not solve any of our problems in a stable manner until we are willing to accept the right of the majority of all Americans to rule.
4
You almost got there, Ross. You implied it but could not bring yourself to say it. Though fought every step of the way, under President Obama illegal immigration was declining every year, and there was no crisis at the border.
Yet Trump rode xenophobic lies and a more than willing group of Evangelical Christian and Republican partners into the White House, and three years later we have a real humanitarian and immigration crisis. Like despots throughout history, Trump manufactured a phony crisis, turned it into a real one, then pointed to it to prove he was right all along.
And yes, the left is playing along according to plan, proposing policies that are unsustainable and unpopular even to moderate voters.
We need to get back to the Obama policy, coupled with increased aid to support Central American stability and development.
Asylum seeking immigration, like Hilary Clinton used to say about abortion, should be safe, legal, and rare.
15
@AA Except that abortion is not safe, legal or rare, and that isn't the goal of pro-abortionists so your metaphor is a poor choice on your part. Illegals comprise roughly 3.5% of the American population. And while arrests on the southwest border started dropping in 2006 they started climbing again about 2012, peaked again about 2014, and have fluctuated since. Likewise unaccompanied children spiked under Obama in 2014 and have fluctuated ever since. To say Obama not Trump is the solution would appear to be ignoring the facts.
1
Issues that were once local, regional, national, continental have fast become global. Trade, climate change, nuclear proliferation and immigration. If you squeeze or seal in one place, it flows to another. The root problems are rarely attacked. I am not a Supra-nationalist however I would ask - if there is a United Nations - constituted for issue resolution and represented by all and funded , why are the grave matters we share today not addressed there ?
5
Immigration has been a political football in the USA for decades, as has climate change. These issues are soon to merge, resulting in a tsunami wave of several hundred million climate refugees surging toward the nearest refuge.
We have a brief moment here to try better methods to accommodate these waves before they break on our shores. The current rush of refugees from Central America represents a lot of people, but it is a relatively small flow with which we are coping rather badly.
Three basic elements should underpin future solutions:
1. Ample emergency support, and carefully planned intervention, applied at the source of the refugees, can enable many to remain where they are.
2. Nearby lands can be supported to absorb a portion of refugees as close to their home as possible, and even encourage return.
3. Distant lands can agree to welcome refugees with care and concern to help them integrate into a foreign culture.
These solutions require significant advanced international planning, economic support, and careful coordination. The costs will be significant.
Make no mistake, regardless of future international action to effectively slow climate change, this climate refugee crisis is coming on the near horizon. Yet, this issue has little worldwide recognition. If you study this issue carefully, you can't miss it looming ahead.
We are witness to the horrifying results of failing to develop consciously planned solutions and playing political football.
7
In a football games, it appears one side wins. But in reality both league members prosper as do the stadium concessions and the media broadcasting the game. Immigration is such. Both sides benefit financially from immigration. Only the spectators which also benefit have to pay the admission.
2
Under President Obama many illegals were deported. BUT when there was a backlog Obama's people quickly altered the system/added more staff so that children were not detained longer than the law requires. Trump's team ignored the laws - separated children from families and then failed to secure more staff and money to keep the conditions humane. BIG DIFFERENCE ROSS.
19
Excellent, well-balanced article. I am continually befuddled that there are men ( some in positions of great power) who believe that showing cruelty to people unable to defend themselves (children, the sick, the poor, the elderly) demonstrates courage and strength. It is true we cannot take in every person who faces hardship. But we can treat children in detention humanely. We could process asylum applications quickly with more judges. We can work on a humane compromise on immigration...that would show courage and strength.
384
@4Katydid
I have a couple of questions. What is the country of origin and condition of sales of the firearms that gangs use to create the conditions whereby desperate parents flee their homes in hope for their childrens' safety? Who are the employers in the United States that exploit the migrant population with below scale wages and less than human housing conditions. These answers would add to an "excellent, well-balanced article."
35
@Lou Viola That is not the subject of the piece-the employers or the weapons.
It is about humanity.
4
@4Katydid as an attorney I find your answer laughable. First, add 1,000 judges with six-figure salaries and then more attorneys all with Federal benefits. Second, there are numerous ways to slow down the process which is why it took years to resolve these cases before the current crisis. Third, allowing them to stay even for a short period of time is incentive enough for a substantial number of immigrants to come here instead of somewhere else.
10
Let us disabuse ourselves of the view that migrants are coming to take our jobs. Migration is an act of desperation for most of us. The minority Christian sects who fled England, the Irish who fled famine, the Armenians who fled genocide, the Jews who fled the various pogroms across Europe and Russia, and the Cubans like my family who fled the totalitarian state founded by Fidel; we came seeking refuge and a place to live in peace.
It is a perilous journey to an uncertain future. I know these people because as a doctor in LA I care for their children.
They live in crowded housing and work long hours in order to provide their children with an opportunity they might never have otherwise.
Are there criminals and unsavory characters among them? Yes but the data show that very few in proportion to the total number of migrants.
Is the application of legal standards to immigration difficult? Is the cause of immigration multifactorial? Will we make mistakes in trying to solve this problem? Yes, of course...
But we can be firm and compassionate. We can recognize that seeking asylum is not a criminal act. We can keep families together. We can create a humane and efficient system for adjudicating asylum requests.
Our own history as a country of immigrants dictate that we must find a solution consistent with the best of our values.
593
@jam Your response is excellent and right on target. Thank you....
28
@jam
Nothing 'dictates' US doctrine in today's world of zero ethical accountability. Now we can hide the past in mists of useful amnesia, the better to simply cast these impoverished masses under the bus. I am afraid you belong to a shrinking minority of Americans who continue to adhere to one of the America's founding myths as a haven for the downtrodden. Do not instrumentalise particular circumstances during a restricted time period (late nineteenth century -- early twentieth century) when the US allowed the masses to immigrate for MUTUALLY useful reasons. At +300 million, can the United States still provide a decent environment for its residents for an unlimited time ? THAT is a legitimate question which has no link to racist and xenophobic policies.
10
@jam
How many?
How many do you say we should let in?
Tell us your number.
I say 1 million per year -- total -- all categories.
And then I say tough controls to enforce that limit.
So, what's your number?
Maybe we can "compromise" on a number.
But no "compromise" on serious control.
No serious control means open borders,
with hundreds of millions.
That is not "compromise".
15
I'm a lifelong Democrat with many Democratic friends. All of us celebrate diversity and the immigrant heritage of the US. We believe that in immigrants we get the best people the world has to offer - harder working, smarter and more entrepreneurial than the people they leave behind.
What's happening at our southern border in our name is an obscenity. Not the policy itself, but the manner in which it is being carried out. Obama had it right. We need to enforce our borders. But we need to do it as respectfully and humanely as possible.
Let's also be clear about the stakes here. If the Democratic candidate for President proposes to effectively open our borders, Donald Trump will will re-election.
442
@Mike MarksYes truth is if you do not take care of your own first, you cannot take care of others. Incidentally, the Republican policies have contributed much more to misery in the USA.
13
@NSf
Ports of entry need to be more secure. Add more immigration judges. Enforce employer sanctions. Penalize employers who hire illegals.
The cost of commodities may have more to do wilth immigration from Central America tha do our policies. When coffee prices rise, little immigration. Who owns the means of production. Are "American intrerets" involved with the rise of immigration?
Immigrzation, btw, is a Trump issue. He hires temporary workers to displace Americans on his properties. He has a track record as the only president ever fined for violation of hiring rules.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/nyregion/trump-tower-illegal-immigrant-workers-union-settlement.html
Make sure that the baby is not thrown out with the bathwater. E.G. 20,000 Cubans are currently in ICE custody. The law should be that it is presumed that they are refugees from persecution.
6
@Mike Marks
We also need to get the immigration system itself fixed. Reformed. Whatever you want to call it. Enforcing our borders and fixing the system itself will do wonders.
8
Rather than just pointing fingers at President Obama, go back one step more: Congress. Republican legislators failed to pass immigration bills, which threw the ball into his court. Even onetime immigration reform advocates in the GOP like Marco Rubio and, sadly, John McCain, abandoned the cause when their party drew a hard line.
What Joe Biden now describes is the political reality that, without Congress doing their own job, the previous administration tried to do something reasonable, which was to deport those who ran afoul of the law in our country. Not a perfect outcome, but it was inevitable when Congress would do nothing beyond threatening to sue President Obama.
534
@NM -- esteemed daughter,
I also agree that Mr. Douthat is blaming Barack Obama for today's inhumane crisis at the border and that today's inhumane and unsanitary concentration camps and cages are more his fault than the current dictator.
Mr. Douthat also conveniently forgets that the Republican Senate and House refused to work with Obama to solve the problems at the border. To insinuate that Obama's deportation policies were immoral, un-American and a compromise with fascism is an absolute obscenity.
139
@silver vibes
Nice to hear from you, my friend!
Isn’t it striking how when conservatives find things to criticize about President Obama, they treat him as if he operated in a vacuum. He was up against an obstructionist but otherwise do-nothing Congress who fought him every step of the way! A party that pointed - and still point - to President Obama for every problem, and take no responsibility for their own (in)action.
As always, thanks for writing. Take care.
124
@silver vibes Douthat also conveniently forgets that they refused to work with George W Bush in the 2000's. Kenndey and Mccain had worked out legislation that would not please AOC today or any Republican but it was a step in the right direction.
The GOP wants the issue, its not about the immigrants its about the hate.
59
Humanizing the treatment of the massive numbers of illegal immigrants with children would require huge investments in building infrastructure and medical care, a cost that current citizens and legal immigrants would have to pay. Creating such a costly haven would encourage an even greater inflow of illegals. Progressives should specify where the money is coming from to take care of these people. . They would reply, I am sure, from the "rich and corporations". That's nonsense, it would be from ordinary citizens at a time when this country has huge social needs according to these same progressives. This country, as great as it is, cannot afford to take care of all the world's problems.
138
@Alex You are so right that this country "cannot afford to take of all the world's problems." But do we have a self interest to work to solve the problems that result in people risking their lives and their children to get into the U.S.? Of course we do. But if you recall, there were a number of regionally supported programs underway in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras to reduce violence, high unemployment and other factors (food shortages) that are causing vulnerable people to come to the U.S. Yet, President Trump cut the spending for these programs. These programs were starting to show results. Other programs can and should be funded. We cannot take care of all the world's problems. We can, however, work with other countries to help our Southern neighbors. Helping them helps us.
152
@Alex 2 things - first, 'humanizing...' will cost money? Not humanizing is going to cost our souls, for sure. Also these people are not illegal immigrants until they enter illegally, which they are not! They should get processed at the border, as the law states - without metering - and let it be determined whether or not they have a right to enter. And that is something we should be providing resources for. That is the law.
46
Alex, you’re correct; the U.S. can’t solve all the world’s problems. But when it comes to the southern border, we just need to find a way to solve just one problem, stemming the flow of migrants from three relatively small failed Central American States, Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, where conditions are so intolerable people are fleeing for their lives. It is possible to address the breakdown in civil society in those countries as has happened in Columbia, for example. However, it takes time, coordinated effort, and a multi-pronged approach, not simplistic solutions served up by craven politicians.
35
Democrats will lose the election if they insist on lax enforcement of borders and on publicly stating things like free healthcare for illegals. Yes, of course, we should realistically care for those who find themselves here, but to state it publicly on a stage as they did in the Democratic debates is a big mistake. I agree with Mr. Douthat here that we should treat all people humanely, that families should not be separated, that children and caregivers should be kept together. Along with climate change, immigration is the universal number one issue that is separating people here and in Europe. It is an issue that must be dealt with immediately, honestly, and humanely. It poses essential questions which we must all face. What is a nation for? Are we entitled to a national identity? All the wars that we have fought for millenia are they all for nought if nation states and cultural identity don't count? Where do we start with solving this issue? The pull factors ( punishing those who hire illegals...(punish the pimp not the prostitute idea) or the push factor ( punish corrupt governments in Central America)? I only see emotional arguments being made which in the long run don't solve a thing and further separate us.
5
This country lacks the leadership to solve its own problems, let alone those of the rest of the world. Be it climate change, income inequality, institutional racism, attacking and invading countries without an exit strategy and on and on and on. The rest of the world used to look to us to understand and solve its problems. Now we and the rest of the world must look elsewhere until and unless we first regain our own moral leadership.
Vote.
6
Interesting Mr. Douthat infers Obama Administration “elitist” policies and “compromise with fascism” when evidence of actual fascism exists with the immigration policies of the Trump Administration. Calling fascism “populism” is just a better sounding label, Mr. Douthat, but you should know that. Look it up.
Immigration policy that would stand up to American values and democratic ideas must include humane treatment of asylum seekers and a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Without humanity and this path, Americans sanction anti-democratic lower working class - where All People are Not Equal - caught in a cycle of 21st Century serfdom, paying into a system of benefits from which they can never withdraw.
The political fight over immigration is one where American hatred and racism stands in one corner, and American human rights and inclusive democratic ideas in the other. It is fascism opposing democracy.
7
Ross, next time you go explain how "the American people want divided government" or "the virtues of the checks and balances in government", please recall that this is what prevents any kind of progress wrt immigration reform.
3
Immigration, both legal and illegal is a contentious issue as demonstrated by 30 years of government failure to set policy. There is a balance between sustaining a growing economy with low birth rates, and overwhelming an economy that as President Clinton warned is unsustainable.
Redefining the issue as population planning would be a step in the right direction, but what then would the extremists argue about?
4
Day after day after day the plight of these living breathing human beings remains stalled in the tense world of politics.
The inner fighting between the right, the left, a republican, a democratic, a conservative, a liberal, the congress, the senate etc..,has got to stop. These human beings are not a commodity, they are not pawns to be to used in a race to win political control.
This is an epic humanitarian crisis both 'folly and cruelty'. Today, this place in time , how we got here, who or what lead us here is irrelevant, inconsequential.
This has awaken the dark side of human consciousness and the injured are these caged human being who are being treated like worthless criminals , herds of cattle.
Regardless of the political label you choose to wear, 'Now is the time for all good people' to step up and do the right thing. Give these human beings the bare necessities they need to survive while the debate for a resolution find its way through the fires of our current of politics arena.
3
Immigration policy no longer has any firm connection to humanity or the definition of our national border. It has become simply and ever an opportunity to caricature political opponents and reach deep for extremist stands in return. If this is our modus operandi in a media-saturated age, we have years of pain to come as we pit ourselves in battles of our own most heinous anger.
Would that we could simply look at its effects and holler “stop”.
5
I could not agree with you more. Living in San Rafael California and Marin County I see a neighborhood next to mine of immigrants packed with people many 8 and ten to a small apartment, surrounded by wealthy neighborhoods. This immigrant neighborhood is an island with many apartments overflowing with humans to an unsafe, unhealthy level. Many Marin residents want immigrants to come, but where are we going to put them? I have been to many Latin American countries and I see that overpopulation is a serious issue, but the answer cannot be, go to the USA. The answer has to be to fight for Democracy in Latin American and the sustainability of population growth.
33
@Frances You are so correct on population growth. The planet needs a global plan on, not just, for zero population growth rather negative population growth. This is needed for to tackle the problems of global warming, as well as environmental pollution, the extinction of species, and the sustainability of local populations.
10
@Frances The countries in Latin America where these immigrants are coming from has been overwhelming Roman Catholic. Roman Catholics and some other evangelical denominations have opposed any support of birth control. That must change. Give the women of these countries the ability to control their own fecundity. To do otherwise means overpopulation in the extreme. Since 1960 the population of Guatemala has more than tripled putting extreme pressure on its resources. No wonder these people are looking for another place to live.
7
@Frances Latin America has made tremendous progress on family planning since the 1960s. People who think they're a population bomb out there waiting to overwhelm us are working from outdated information and more than a little prejudice. Catholicism didn't keep Italy from reducing its birth rate once the means became available, and it's not stopping Latin America either.
Latin America has had problems with political disorder, with massive income and wealth inequality, with failures to build enough urban infrastructure as people moved to the cities, and with natural disasters made worse by climate change. But the sheer number of people is not the issue.
1
The breaking of the cycle on immigration must begin with a discussion of worldwide population growth and its interface with nation-states and global warming. We sort of have room for more people, but Bangladesh sort of doesnt, especially since the country is shrinking because sea levels are rising. We used to encourage them to use family planning and bring fewer people into the world. But some of our religions think this is immoral, so we stopped. We need some moral insight here, but there is not much talk. So our debates over immigration ignore and shut out the context that would give them contact with reality.
We are hiding our heads in the sand -- and the tide is coming in.
24
@sdavidc9 I could not agree with you more. Living in San Rafael California and Marin County I see a neighborhood next to mine of immigrants packed with people many 8 and ten to a small apartment, surrounded by wealthy neighborhoods. This immigrant neighborhood is an island with many apartments overflowing with humans to an unsafe, unhealthy level. Many Marin residents want immigrants to come, but where are we going to put them? I have been to many Latin American countries and I see that overpopulation is a serious issue, but the answer cannot be, go to the USA. The answer has to be to fight for Democracy in Latin American and the sustainability of population growth.
4
Guatemala (or much of it) is a fairly miserable place these days, but these people were not fleeing persecution. No one was going to come in the middle of the night and haul them off to prison, or death.
It was the father's responsibility not to take a small child across a treacherous river and leave her unaccompanied on the far side, from which she, with the incomprehension and ignorance of danger of two years old, tried to return to him across the river. I would not leave a child that age by the side of a street (or river, or swimming pool); a two year old does not understand "Wait here for me.".
We should offer asylum to those with a valid fear of death or harm, but it's inappropriate for economic migrants. With a bracero program the father could have a job in the U.S. and send enough money back home to keep his family in comfort.
22
@Jonathan Katz
US religious conservatives are complicit in the aggravation of the social problems in Latin America due to their antediluvian policies towards family planning. I cannot understand how the chronically unemployed in these countries or other poor regions of the world can insist upon having families of several children whilst being incapable of surviving on a daily basis themselves. Both the Middle East and Latin America will continue to flounder in misery and violence as long as these demographic trends are allowed to continue, to the detriment of the world at large for both environmental and political reasons.
21
How are US conservatives responsible for the fertility rate of Central American women ? I would submit it is the strongly held Roman Catholic tenets which are maintained and reiterated by Popes in the Vatican and the local RC in clergy in each country. Abortion restrictions may also play into that, but it is birth control primarily.
7
@Suburban Cowboy
It is well-known fact that the only human lifeforms of any interest to US conservatives are foetuses and embryos. And after childbirth, the new being who asked for nothing is obliged to simply cope with the mediocre existence foisted upon him/her by parents either too ignorant to act more responsibly or who are the prey of various procreational ideologies which infest all three of the Abrahamic religions to various degrees.
1
There is a very low standard for letting migrants who request asylum into the country. All the migrants have to do is say they are fleeing persecution in their own country and that they fear having to return. Virtually every Central American migrant knows to say this, with the result that 90% of them are entered into our formal asylum process.
They also know to bring a minor with them so that once they are let into the U.S., to await their immigration hearing, that they will not be held in detention. Up to 43% of those not held in detention do not show up at their immigration hearings. The 6/26/18 Politifact article titled "Majority of undocumented immigrants show up for court, data shows” has a chart which shows that between 2012 and 2016 that large percentages failed to attend their hearings.
Those who skip their hearings are ordered deported, but most just disappear into our general undocumented population.
Those who do attend their hearings get an immigration judge to listen to their stories to see if they could qualify for asylum under the protocols set by the U.N. Refugee Convention.
Counting those who skip their hearings and those who attend them, judges are finding that only 10 to 15% of Central Americans qualify for asylum.
Why are we allowing 90% to enter the asylum process when only 10 to 15% are being found to qualify for asylum? Shouldn't the criteria for being entered into the asylum process be higher?
48
Nancy Pelosi passed the bill to fund the border in spite of severe misgivings because she cared about the children. All discussion and debate needs to be suspended. All opinion writing needs to ignore the past debates between Democrats, Republicans, liberals or conservatives. Opinion writers are not elected representatives. In this case it is their responsibility to mobilize and address only one objective as did Nancy Pelosi. To prevent further damage to innocent children on the southern border whether they are with parents, relatives or friends. These children need to be with their families whether they are legal or illegal. It is irrelevant whether immigration systems in other parts of the world are better or worse as has been portrayed in another opinion article. Children cannot sustain this stress as can adults. They are not small adults. They are totally different psychologically and physiologically. This has been an emergency for two years. There has already been irreparable harm to countless children from Latin America. Debate amount opinion writers must stop. Any opinion that addresses anything other than the opinion that these operations must be stopped and corrected is not only self serving but complicit with the process itself.
34
@Allan Bahoric, MD
Thank you for your clear, ringing declaration to rescue and save the children. I would add save the adults, too. Without sounding this alarm, we are enabling barbaric acts on the part of our government. We must act on behalf of these migrants.
1
Ross rightly identifies the current immigration policies as cruel and inhumane - and rightly identifies Obama policy as the same.
Why, then, does he view the passage of the funding bill as a "responsible" step? At issue here is not a lack of funding - CBP and ICE are NOT benevolent actors doing the best they can with limited resources to ensure the safety and dignity of migrants. More money means more raids, more family separations, and more inhumane detentions.
That migrants continue to risk their lives in crossings despite appalling treatment by Mexican and US authorities only illustrates the desperate conditions from which they are fleeing - conditions fostered by a storied history of antidemocratic US interventions throughout Central America. The last coup we legitimized was only 10 years ago in Honduras.
Abolish ICE. Legalize workers to limit their exploitation at the hands of US employers. Low wages are the responsibility of the billionaires at the top, not the workers at the bottom, no matter the nationality. Fight the real enemies.
8
@Will HD
While not rendering a solution to immigration, Obama's policies were not the same as Trump's. Families were not separated, children were taken from their parents with no record kept to unite them, nor were children kept in cages. There is a lot more barbarity to Trump's detention camps but I've provided a few examples. Don't rely on Trump's version, if you want to know the truth.
"Center".??
"Middle Ground"??
"Bipartisan"??
"Compromise" simply for the sake of "compromise"?
NO.
What's needed is a full discussion and debate
about the merits of immigration
and the limits
and the controls
and the benefits and the costs for the USA.
And weed out the discussion about the benefits
to the immigrants themselves.
What counts is the benefits and the costs to the USA.
So, full discussion.
Including, within each party,
a robust debate,
with real choices -- in the primaries.
Then let the American people decide, in 2020.
Both in the primaries,
and in the general.
10
Ditto a full debate , wide bore, on why military spending and healthcare subjects. Alas, this is America. Fat chance.
Protestant Exangelicals will never pressure Trump on moral grounds. For one thing, they worship him. For another, they do not want the country to get any less white than it is. They ate on board with inhumanity at the border.
Conservative catholics? I don’t know. RD should talk about that.
I am very conflicted over this issue. Personally, I am ok with increased immigration, but surely there have to be some limits?
Taken to gather, the comments at the two debates boils down to a policy that anybody who gets here should;d be admitted and that only people who commit serious crimes should be deported.
I mean, that is a policy but it needs to be adopted by legislation, not elitist imposition. And it was not Obama’s policy.
In the meantime,. The disgraceful conditions in these detention centers have to be improved.
10
@Lefthalfbach
The "disgraceful conditions in these detention centers" can easily be improved by promptly deporting them.
1
I'm no immigration expert, but I still think there is a common sense and humane place we can land on this:
1) Recognize the humanity of these people and grant them asylum. This is not the same thing as granting citizenship. It is a recognition that the majority of them have fled here in difficult circumstances. They should be given safe refuge and humane conditions while here.
2) Guest worker programs are good. These people want to work. There are many jobs here for them. They should get paid to work. Connect them with these jobs. This has already happened in countless instances. It's not an ideal arrangement because the potential for exploitation and low wages remains. But overall it's a good thing when workers are connected with jobs. And guest worker status can be used to provide stability and remove the threat of deportation.
3) A pathway to citizenship is a good thing. Once people are here for several years they should have every right and opportunity to begin applying for citizenship and go through the process. This is not an easy granting of citizenship, but rather a process which takes seriously the demands of citizenship and recognizes and respects the roots that immigrants have laid down here on a natural pathway.
4) Let's build stronger and fairer economic ties to Central America. The overall quality of life in the U.S. often far exceeds our southern neighbors, and we can't blame people for wanting to share some of that prosperity.
20
@Bert Clere Around 90% are not granted asylum after they go through the process. Many do not show up for their hearings. Most are economic migrants. Your 4th point is okay, but the rest is will just keep Trump in the WH for 4 more years.
1
@thewriterstuff Maybe so. But I don't think it is humane or right to deport economic migrants who are already in desperate circumstances and have nothing. Many of the most law-abiding and decent people throughout the U.S. arrived in similar circumstances and made a new life here through persistence and hard work. I grew up with many such people in Eastern NC. I think that's an American Dream worth defending, even if it isn't the most politically popular.
@Bert Clere
We couldn't blame the poverty of Europeans or Asians at the turn of the last century, either, "to share" ("wanting to share" means they are doing the sharing, "grab" might be a better word choice), but how about an Ellis Island approach, visa in hand? Seemed to work much better than what we are witnessing on our southern border, chaos.
I think we can come up with ways to help those fleeing poverty. We can provide assistance in the form of education, work, food, and shelter. But all of this must be temporary. Any permanent help, including citizenship must have the approval of the American people.
We have a festering civil war on our hands. It would be easy to blame this on Trump, or even Obama. But the blame really belongs to pseudo-Democrats like Bernie Sanders and AOC, etc. We have been bullied by their unyielding principles. They have decided to bet the future of America on poor foreigners who have been coached to lie.
Look at what is happening around us. Trade wars are gathering steam. Arms control agreements are being abandoned. We are barreling head first toward … the 1930's. This is the wrong time in our history to have this crisis.
10
@Caveman 007
Cocaine was a problem in Berlin, for sure.
@Caveman 007
Why don’t we offer to assist them in their own country?
Education
A 2/17 Inter American Dialogue Report titled "Educational Challenges in Honduras and Consequences for Human Capital and Development” said the average Honduran, age 15 and above, has only a 4th grade education. Even those Hondurans who have attended school for more years do not do well on international tests for their grade levels. Guatemala and El Salvador have higher illiteracy rates than Honduras.
We could help Central Americans improve their schools.
Food
A 3/8/11 PBS Newshour segment titled "In Guatemala, Family Planning Clashes with Religion, Tradition” pointed out that most have learned from their religious leaders not to use birth control. They have as many children as God gives them - 8. 9, ten. A family's farm has to be divided between all of its children. After many generations of being divided, the resulting farms are too small to raise enough food for a large family. Yet, couples continue to have large families. 46% of Guatemalan children do not get enough to eat and are stunted.
Not mentioned in the Newshour segment, but of real importance is that a Dry Corridor runs through Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras. This area is now in one of its occasional droughts.
We could provide food aid for a few years, help their farmers with irrigation and in finding drought resistant crops, and ask their church leaders to give their parishioners the option of using birth control.
1
There are 70 million people eligible as refugees, and up to 2 billion fleeing poverty or an high rate of violence. We can not take care of all of them. At some point we have to reject people, and that means cruelty and misery.
We can impose a more cooperative treatment of migrants, and it may be rewarding. But we need a backstop, and than we have the same old mess of deterrence and arbitrary deportation. This backstop has to be implemented, no matter if the president is a liberal or a xenophobic populist. If the liberal leadership does not do it, people will elect a populist to enforce it.
All this more humane treatment of migrants, as desirable as it is, is just deferring the deportation camps, and make them more despicable. And i also take politicians accountable, who's unrestrained open border policies have triggered this backlash.
27
@Mathias Weitz
Yes. I place the blame for the programmed disintegration of the European Union squarely on the shoulders of Angela Merkel with her obscenely irresponsible pressure on fellow EU member states to accept the masses of migrants without discrimination.
Regardless of the legitimacy of her position, Realpolitik demonstrates that guilt-tripping led to nothing but to the rise of xenophobic politics as exemplified by the United Kingdom's suicidal Brexit misadventure or the return of the brown shirts in mainstream politics across the Union.
2
@AE
Disagree, Merkel did the only viable solution.
What would you have done ? shot the refugees somewhere on their way to central europe and hang their corpses high on stakes to prevent other from coming ?
And about the rise of the populists, the immigration crisis just laid bare, what had been already there.
Germany has taken in twice as many refugees as the rest of europe combined, and though we have xenophobic populists, the have not gained more than 15%, and gained most in rural areas with very little to no refugees. Don't blame refugees for the moral shortcoming. These populists getting railed up by any kind of social envy.
For the undoing of europe is solely the arrogance of the right wing elite to blame. Old white men, full of greed, hate and longing for personal glory.
And i am proud about the way we (and a few other nations) have handled this crisis, with little and no help from the gutless rest of europe. Look at us know, while everyone is freaking out, we know our strenght, we wallow in our sobriety.
The "elite consensus" has always been about self-loathing and their notions of the "common good"--destroying sovereignty, always a must--and knowing that their neighborhoods, e.g., Pelosi and Schumer, save to clean their bathrooms, would never be burdened with the corrosive and debilitating underbelly of illegal immigration as those of California's Central Valley.
Have they not looked to Brussels to see what the self-indulgent Mandarins have wrought? It has arrived in the US and now they, in league with our Sovietized mass-media, press to end what is left of the nation-state.
Hands up "elite consensus" on Cultural Marxism's success in 2020.
15
Douthat is right that Democrats need to endorse a plan to manage our southern border. The open borders stance taken by Julian Castro, Kamala, and others is a losing proposition with most voters. Of course we need to deal with the humanitarian problem of internment camps but we also have to limit entry into the United States. Then we legalize DACA but only then.
34
If one wants to truly address the immigration issue, one must attack the problem at its root cause. As long as attempting to immigrate to the US is a more attractive option than staying poor and downtrodden and oppressed in their native lands, people will continue to take that risk.
12
I don't see a sensible, practical immigration plan in either party.
We need to restrict immigration. The American people will not stand for excessive waves of immigration; nobody will; even Germany and Sweden suffered a backlash.
We need to treat immigrants humanely, but above all efficiently. The single most important thing to do is to pour resources into making decisions quickly. If every asylum decision is made in a week, there is limited scope for inhumanity. Streamline the judicial process; better to make some errors than have massive backlogs. Some limits to due process are required to make the process more efficient.
The most toxic element of immigration is that there are millions of people in America to who are working illegally. That hurts both American workers and the illegal workers. Start making it a serious crime to employ illegal workers; punish the employers, not the workers. That will make finding a solution for the millions of illegal residents easier to solve, because giving them a path to residency won't invite millions more to replace them. Making the illegals into taxpayers who work for employers who follow US labor law is not a full solution, but it is a necessary part of it.
53
We already have tough laws against employing illegal immigrants. They are not widely enforced. Why not? Follow the money!!
Time to get tough on employers and the other root cause: incompetent governance in Central America.
nailed it. great piece.
12
Three years ago everyone said the wall was unnecessary (what crisis?), crazy, expensive, and wouldn’t work. Today we are now stuck spending $4.6 BILLION on better detainment centers because the border is overrun. I blame trump for failing to build the wall when he had the chance - when he controlled both houses of Congress. Instead he waited until after midterm losses to agitate for funding. Too late. Now we get funding for more detainee centers, and no clear plan on how to actually STOP people from illegally entering g the US - not ‘dissuading,’ not ‘making it less attractive.’ Because none of that will work. And no candidate, on the right or the left, has anything close to a workable plan. Here’s hoping that once the primary is over, the dem nominee is a moderate who will talk sense - e-verify, increased border security, and yes, a wall in strategic locations.
30
What makes you think a wall would have deterred the desperate. Furthermore what sort of morality is it that turns refugees away or rationalizes inhumane treatment of children because they couldn't be kept out?
36
Most who are being detained are coming to places with a wall. They are legally seeking asylum at the borders and turning themselves in to border patrol. The wall will not stop those coming from Central America. We cannot have a discussion about Central American immigration without a discussion about the current effects of climate change and how it is impacting agriculture yields and the desperate need for investment in crop resiliency.
4
@CA John
Seems too much "Grass Valley" in your thinking. There is nothing easy about putting an end to the flow of illegal immigration.
No need for our children to suffer the consequences of our cowardice in facing the reality that is before our nation--"what sort of morality" is that?
"We now have multiple case studies, European and American, of how in a globalized and internet-connected world migration can suddenly cascade"
This is blind to the other side of those examples. Labor arbitrage exploits people who cannot leave. It uses them cheaply under bad conditions. Meanwhile, there is free flow of capital and goods, maximizing their power to exploit those people.
Globalization as done now is ruining the lives of people, leaving ruined economies and ruined countries. People take their children into overloaded small boats across a wide sea not as their idea of a good thing, but rather out of desperation.
Do something about the desperation.
That applies to Mexico too. The subsistence jobs that people had were wiped out by NAFTA, but they had no new options that they could use. So they moved, at great cost, and great fear, reluctantly.
People run from Honduras. Do you realize what the US did to Honduras in 2009? It is now a free killing zone of right wing militias. El Salvador too, thanks to the killing lunatic Elliot Abrams we pardoned for his crimes and now turned on Venezuela too.
Rein in the abuses of the places they come from. Let those places develop as livable homes. Instead, we have things like the US oil majors in Nigeria, funding the worst and keeping it in power. So now Nigerians show up here.
Total freedom for big money and corporations doesn't mix with keeping people from moving.
55
@Mark Thomason "Globalization as done now is ruining the lives of people, leaving ruined economies and ruined countries."
Try telling that to China and South Korea, where in one generation people have been lifted out of poverty and the nation has thrived. The problem in the US, is we think in quarters....quarterly profits, quarterly losses. We also think in election cycles, so Trump basically overturns 8 years of mostly good Obama legislation, and by the time he leaves office in 2024 (if the Dems keep going the way they're going), we'll be started over from the 70's. Meanwhile, China is quietly taking over the world.
3
Mr. Douthat ought to be respected and complimented for his humanistic approach in this opinion piece. It shows an encouraging step, on his part, away from blind right-wing orthodoxy and trumpism. Other commenters have pointed to some flaws in his argumentation to which one could add the usual right-wing method of oversimplification by the misuse of a complete disjunctive form. Surely one ought to consider also that trump's team may consider trump's cruelty to be BOTH useful and a matter of indifference. Mr. Douthat is admirably expressing some views close to the deep ethics of his adopted religion.
19
"The cycle started with a gap between the elite consensus on immigration — unabashedly in favor — and the public’s more conflicted attitudes, which differ depending on the day’s headlines and the wording of the polling questions"
The elite consensus is unabashedly in favor? What about all those Republicans in the federal government - the Senators, congressmen and the president - are they not elite? It seems as if Ross Douhat's definition of elite is: A liberal. I wonder if that is an unintentional compliment??
18
@Art You seem to be overlooking the push by Bush 43 and later John McCain's attempt in 2013 to work with Obama and a bipartisan Senate group on comprehensive immigration reform.
The 'elite consensus' mentioned by Mr. Douthat certainly included many Chamber of Commerce Republicans (eg, the WSJ Editorial page) that liked the importation of cheap workers and willing customers.
20
@Art I will admit that you have a point when I meet a Republican with a mind of his/her own. Currently those minds exist at the bottom of Donald Trump's pocket.
1
Is it not time to call to account those in Congress who passed legislation creating the current immigration rush, legal and illegal?
8
Many groups are happy with an unending or at least a large supply of illegal immigrants: the for-profit prison industry; the Chamber of Commerce, representing cheaper labor interests; many in the construction and agricultural sectors; churches, including some of the more fundamentalist ones; ethnic groups that see increased numbers of "their kind" as a way to grow their power base; people who believe borders are illegal and arbitrary or that American southwest's borders should be what they were before the Mexican-American War (184s) or before the Spanish came (1500s). And this is not a complete list by any means.
14
So Douthat is still waiting for the application of "basic Christian principles" from Trump's religious supporters?
This is either satire, or certifiable; most of the rest of the world ceased waiting several centuries ago.
The shilling here for Joe Biden -- at least, until Biden's actually nominated -- aside (everything with a political purpose?) Mr. D. also seems to think that desperate parents are "reckless" to bring their children to the border.
Thank your stars, Ross, that you don't have to make that decision.
14
The entire article opines that both sides need to adjust, the subtitle is "Can right and left break out of their disastrous cycles?".
Then Brett finishes with his resounding answer: No, they cannot:
"But it’s how the party’s voters answer, and what the next Democratic president does, that will determine how fast the cycle of polarization continues turning."
If it's up to the Democrats to break the polarization, then Brett is saying that the GOP cannot, or will not. Once again Brett, along with his colleague David Brooks, while bemoaning the extremes on the right, offers us the solution that "If only the Democrats would be better Republicans, our problems would be over."
15
@ImagineMoments
Total brain cramp, I know my Ross from my Brett. Apologies to each.
@ImagineMoments Brett? Ross? Are all conservatives the same?
Several months ago, I would have had an entirely different view of Mr. Douthat's column. I would have considered his concerns about uncontrolled migration, which I will give him the benefit of the doubt as sincere, as legitimate. Mind you, I would have disagreed with his overall assessment, but I would have understood the basis for his concerns. Now I simply cannot.
We now have internment camps on our soil, holding children who have committed no crimes, and no program for re-uniting them with their families. And barely any outcry by Americans.
Juxtaposed on this picture, my spouse and I have spent the afternoon listening to recordings of some of his family members (all Jews - young people at the time), whose families fled Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia before the Holocaust. We listed to the sober recount of those who left, describing the fates of those who perished in the camps. And there was a refrain throughout these narratives - those who didn't leave when they could have insisted "it wouldn't get that bad."
"It wouldn't get that bad." These words now haunt us. Native-born U.S. citizens, he is Jewish, and I have Middle Eastern ancestry. And so many times since Trump took office, we have asked ourselves "is it going to get that bad?" And seeing the camps with these young children, we now know the answer is "Yes."
We know families such as our are not far down on Trump's list of targets. And we are buying a home outside the U.S., before "it gets that bad."
37
Two points as to what is happening now at the border:It is a human tragedy of epic proportions and most of these people have the spirit of what has made America what it is today. As to the latter,it is that willingness to give up everything they have to come and be an American. These people,many of them,are risking a lot more that most of our ancestors did to come and allow us to have the life that we second,third,and fourth generation Americans now have. Give up the stupid right left approach for once. It is about helping people and recognizing the special quality of these people as the best people for America's future.
15
@Bill Heekin
Why are they the best, because they are desperate ?
What about the Poor American Citizens that will
lose their minimum wage jobs to the un-Documented
Immigrants, I guess they don't count as they only
clean up the "Bright and Shiny City" that you live in.
Immigration Reform that makes it clear that you will
not be able to just cross the border or send you child
alone to America, is a start. More importantly is the
U.N. and the U.S. should be doing what it can to help
the countries in Latin America.
1
@Bill Heekin
A welcome approach! Instead of viewing the asylum seekers as invaders and potential leeches on the system, it's time to look at them with a historical approach. How many "Americans" would walk hundreds of miles to look for work and a way to support their families?
If people like me worry about the leftward lean of the Democratic Party, the Democratic 2020 hopefuls should see that as a shot across the bow.
My support for Elizabeth Warren, which was very high, and to whom I have donated, has weakened. I worry that if she were the nominee some of her policy positions could be a dream - for Donald Trump. To me, electability as the most important attribute of our nominee.
Warren proposes that if someone commits illegal entry, entering the US by lying to or avoiding immigration officials (usually by crossing the border between ports of entry), that should not be decriminalized. Doing so is a de facto wink and nod to, yes, an open border policy.
Most Democratic contenders favor giving public health benefits to undocumented immigrants. Sorry, but when there are many struggling families in this country, adding undocumented immigrants to, say, the ACA (who were not included in the plan), is a political loser (and blue states have struggled with providing coverage to their own undocumented population).
It is no longer easy to "pivot" from a primary candidate to a general election candidate. Video and incessant social media ads will keep images of hands raised during a debate, when asked if healthcare should be extended to undocumented immigrants, forever.
48
@DABman Agreed, and I consider myself pretty liberal on immigration. It seems to me that Biden has a huge opportunity to differentiate himself from the other front runners here (Sanders, Warren, and Harris), rather than trying to appease the progressive left, who will never support him. Let him get the “cooler heads” vote.
33
@DABman
If the laws on the books penalizing EMPLOYERS who hire illegal entrants were enforced as written, the problem would go away almost immediately.
You worry about the poor man seeking minimum wage, if that, employment, but not the rich man who hires him?
Have you ever wondered why the overwhelmingly Republican Chamber of Commerce opposes immigration crackdowns? They desperately want to maintain a supply of very cheap labor.
44
@DABman I do not agree with Warren. She does not say that illegal entry should be permissible; only that it should not be considered a criminal act. But the distinction will be lost on a lot of voters. And I think there are a lot of voters who will not vote for any candidate they see as being kinder to illegal immigrants than to legal residents.
25
The solutions lie in working on the climate crisis like it was a war on our homeland, which it is. Also, having the world discussion on the population explosion and how to slow it down. The old institutions that forbid contraception etc.etc. are only ancient attempts to control women that persist to this day.. We need to control the exponential population growth or, like the lemmings, we will end with a race to our early death as a race, and we will take a lot of earth's species with us. We need to take these things seriously, or we are doomed. We need to attack our problems at the root. All countries are feeling the inhuman drastic effects, all countries will listen. We need a world conference on population and related degradation of the planet.
PS: Don't expect Trump to have a part here.
29
We can mount up the acts of cruelty, incompetence, and brokenness contained in our current immigration system, funding and policies. On the other hand we can start to fix them with decency, justice, mercy and yes a respect for law, both the rights and human dignity of the asylum seeker and our safety and security as a nation.
Yes Ross D., we could do what you have done and call out the hatred, the mendacity, the xenophobia of one side and the American version of"Let them all come and we'll make due" vision of a German chancellor adopted by our Left. Sensible people shrink from either polarity. We seek leaders who will understand that the system doesn't need more politics and ideology, it needs fixing. Funding and a respect for humanity, facilities, more judges, more rapid processing and a willingness to say with clear eyes we will not, cannot take all
President Obama and his V.P. are not villains. They worked with the law they had not the law they may have wanted.
32
Obvious course would be to do a deal with Mexico similar to the deal Germany did with Turkey: funding for humane conditions for the displaced and/or desperate north of their southern border, which would take the pressure off our southern border.
13
I fear that any deal our country would make with Mexico would be similar to what Italy did with its problems controlling migration, which was to outsource them to Libya. Migrants detained in Libya are held in camps that make the detention center in Clint Texas look more than adequate. Unfortunately there are reports that migrants stopped on the Mexican side of the border lack shelter and are frequently the victims of crime. So asking Mexico to cope with the migrants seeking to enter this country doesn’t sound like a particularly good solution to me.
1
@nancy
You make your argument without facts in evidence. It is a great idea to make Mexico responsible !
The best idea would be to distribute the tens of thousands of illegals to all the blue states!
To have and to hold, to love and cherish until death do you part.
Have all the states other than California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas come to terms with the swarm of people coming north.
1
@Nancy
Thanks to NAFTA, Mexico now has the 15th largest economy in the world. It can tax its oligarchs and elite class to fund migrant shelters.
1
When I got to the end of the article, you kind of let the cat out of the bag so to speak Ross. You clearly want Joe Biden, the moderate, as President. Not because it’s Joe Biden, but he’s considered “Mr. Moderate”.
The fact of the matter is, the immigration issue in this country is a “holy mess”. No one, “near left or near right moderate”, or “far left or far right” is going to make a dent in our immigration policy. We lost that opportunity when the “Tea Party” took over Congress 10 years ago. And lately it has been exacerbated by Trumpism.
When will comprehensive immigration take place in this country? Likely never. Why? Because these immigrants are leaving in fear of their lives from atrocities being committed against them and their families, and this country has no stomach for aiding the El Salvador’s, etc. to solve their internal conflicts with crime. And in 20 years, famine and a host of other calamities brought about by climate change will just worsen the problem.
Electing a moderate President in my view, is not a solution.
26
Great majority of Americans are welcoming of legal immigrants who follow the rules and strengthen the society, but they don't welcome those who cross the border illegally or overstay their visa illegally. They don't welcome those who intentionally disregard the rules and misrepresent themselves to cheat the system and jump the lines and take advantage of the generous asylum, education and child support policies.
No modern country can survive without limiting and controlling immigration so that the new arrivals have time to integrate into society and become productive citizens. Australia and E.U. have both shown that tight control outside of borders working with gateway countries has reduced illegal immigration significantly. While immigration policy can be compassionate it also has to be realistic. Decriminalizing illegal border crossing and assuring free healthcare will further incentivize those who want to jump the line ahead of millions waiting patiently through legal immigration processes. Time for both parties to come together to resolve the issue through common sense policies grounded in reality.
113
@Matt
As long as Democrats believe that Hispanics are their locked down voters, expect more of the same hypocrisy. One would think that Blacks would have wised to being played by the Left for 50 years, sinking so far behind that the latest setup for disappointment is a massive reparations wealth transfer.
When I listened to the Democrats virtual candy store narrative and extolling ever larger victim narratives and envy, my heart sank, knowing that Trump will win a bigger margin.
5
When I heard most of the Democratic candidates endorsing taxpayer-funded healthcare (such as "Medicare for All") for undocumented immigrants, I had a vertiginous sense that they were bots - planted by the Trump campaign - to ensure his re-election in 2020.
204
@GBR
Agree. I found it all very surreal. Thought I had narrowed down my candidate choices. Back to square one.
23
@GBR I left the country when Trump became president, when I watched the debates all I could think of is that I will have four more years in exile.
18
@GBR You are probably right. Americans don’t vote on facts (like what we’re really paying for healthcare versus what other countries are paying); they vote on fears.
14
With all the cruelties of the Trump administration in regard to immigration, it would be a bitter irony if the Dems were the ones to lose in 2020 on this very issue. So they'd better get this right, or else.
70
@shaun Cutts
I love it. Send them to Boston and then send some more!
1
I rarely, if ever, agree with Ross Douthat but I could not agree with him more regarding this column. I wish one Democratic candidate would state that the US cannot take in all who seek a better life from other countries. At least not until every citizen has decent healthcare, education, housing and employment. We do have a responsibility to help the Central American countries as our insatiable demand for illegal drugs powers much of the abhorrent conditions in those countries. But the idea of open borders, free healthcare, civil penalties will simply result in The Monster being re-elected. WE MUST NOT GIVE TRUMP FOUR MORE YEARS. Four more years to destroy the very foundations of this country. Biden or Klobuchar or Bennet or someone from the middle MUST be the nominee. Personally I think Klobuchar would be great.
61
Douthat and Stephens need to take a wider view of the problem, which is far different from previous immigration "crises". People wanting to migrate from their homes is becoming a universal phenomenon. It is driven by the breakdown of political order, civil war, and most ominously climate change.
People are desperate to leave places, where they face starvation, dehydration, and endemic violence. The answer is for all civilized nations is to get rid of immigration restrictions almost entirely. This will lead to imbalances in the short term, but eventually a more or less stable equilibrium.
4
@Diogenes
Do you mean a few million Muslims or ten million Muslims flooding into Israel would create a stable equilibrium.
1
@Diogenes and poverty and corruption worldwide so that every country is at the level that Guatemala is now.
1
"...extending public benefits to undocumented immigrants."
What public benefits?
The REAL bipartisan folly occurred in the period between 1994, the year NAFTA was ratified, and 2007, when illegal crossings hit their peak.
Before the ink was fry on NAFTA, US corporations decided that their capital was better spent in China rather than Mexico. Imagine that, even though wages were roughly similar, our "job creators", enabled by both parties, chose an authoritarian country across the Pacific over a struggling democracy right next door!
If China's entry into GATT and then the WTO had been delayed, Mexico's (and countries to its south) living standard would be closer to our.
Then, Mr. Douthat, even if shown an "open door" there wouldn't have much of a rush to go through it.
14
@trblmkr Re: "Imagine that, even though wages were roughly similar, our "job creators", enabled by both parties, chose an authoritarian country across the Pacific over a struggling democracy right next door!"
Thanks for pointing this out. It was a terrible long-term blunder for American national and economic security; it always bothered me, too. I think there was (and is) a reason, however: American capitalists see safety in the strong, ultra-authoritarian Chinese state. The sometimes messy Mexican state? Not so much. Capitalism VALUES authoritarianism.
8
We had immigration reform once,we could go back and forth across the border with just our drivers license. The Mexicans crossed to do seasonal work, then returned to their families. Some stayed and opened businesses in the San Joaquin Valley, the apple country of Washington and even East LA, they contributed to the economy. Now many of those small towns in the Valley are drying up.
Conservatives and other petty minded people complained they were taking American jobs. That is a holdover from the railroad days when the Chinese began doing the low wage labor intensive jobs. Now we have some troglodytes complaining about the Liberals wanting open borders, are they afraid someone from central America will come and take their hob cleaning out chicken coops, picking apples and oranges. Those immigrants seem to be able to find work, send their kids to UCB and even Harvard, but the right wingers complain they cost us money for schools and medical and even welfare which they do not get.
Most of us out here are fine with them, almost every city, town village has a Mexican restaurant, and they do well. The ones that cant make it here go home anyway. It is the GOP we ought to build walls to keep out.
21
@david underwood
I would agree with you but then both of us would be wrong.
The wall ( digitally, technically, mentally, physically, legally and economically) should be built to keep the future Dim voters out.
Viva Trump 2020 and Pence 2024! Build the wall.
1
“The harsh reality of border enforcement tends to breed callousness and prejudice, of the sort that pervades a recently-exposed Border Patrol Facebook group, unless someone in authority is pushing back hard against that tendency. And it’s plain that Trump’s team doesn’t regard that kind of pushback as a moral obligation, that they are either invested in the idea that cruelty might be a useful deterrent or indifferent to the conditions that visitors to the camps keep uncovering.”
And then there are those who get off on cruelty itself for no other purpose than the surge a bully feels when they inflict it. That is the cruelty being supported by Trump and his enablers.
22
People who read these comments boxes frequently know I take Ross to task as often as anyone else.
But today I cannot, as his arguments are most reasonable, and he certainly criticized both sides in this debate fairly. I think this is the most sensible column he's ever written for the Times (it helps when he avoids getting bogged down in obscure Catholic theological points).
I'd only like to add that both sides have been somewhat disingenuous in their arguing. As some here have mentioned, we don't hear much about the compromise bill from 2013 anymore; we also don't hear enough about conservative oligarchic resistance to universal electronic E-verify (they love the cheap labor), or liberal resistance to a re-established guest worker program.
Yes, the nature of a lot of migration has recently changed--we're seeing the families fleeing corruption, violence, and climate change--but not many talk about our foreign policy and slashed aid contributions to that.
We need to attack the issue on all fronts. It's as complex an issue as we face, and all those who simplify it do so for political purposes and not humanitarian ones. Yes, we need to treat these asylum seekers much better, adjudicate their claims faster, but we also need to create many more legitimate pathways for people to come here in a steady, regulated manner.
And we need to stop listening to the crazy that fear and hate espouse.
58
@Glenn Ribotsky
I’d like to hear more about the compromise bill of 2013.
1
@Ms Nancy
A pretty comprehensive overview:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Security,_Economic_Opportunity,_and_Immigration_Modernization_Act_of_2013
2
In this piece Douthat more than once expects religious conservatives to oppose Trump's immigration policies. Jesus in Mathew 7:21-23 had a different perspective. For those who claim to be Christian (many even claim to be "Saved") but do not help people like the children imprisoned in the Clint Texas internment facility, Jesus promises to on the Day of Judgment tell them clearly and publicly "I never knew you". And for those who allow such harm to come to children, He says it would have been better for them to have arranged to have themselves thrown into the sea tied to a millstone.
36
The "triangle countries" (Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador) have a population of 33 million. This country simply cannot solve the problems of Central America by importing their entire population. No one needs more unskilled labor, other than mostly Republican employers who maintain profits by hiring illegal workers. The native American unskilled workforce is aware of this phenomenon, and their votes will determine whether Trump improbably retains his office in 2020.
95
@ed connor,
The Democrats sure care a lot about poor people and the working class. To bad their concern is limited to non-citizens.
I would vote for any one of the Democratic nominees for President of the World. They seem to really understand the needs of their non-American constituents.
Could I vote for any of them for President of the United States? Why would I? None of them seem that concerned about the people of the United States.
7
@ed connor
If only Republicans own businesses, you have just scared the heck out of me giving Liberals more power. You can only imagine where they would take it.
Democrats used to actually stand for more than self-righteous scolding. It makes me actually pine for the old Moral Majority of the 80s. They were obnoxious but at least predictable.
3
The glut of immigrants seeking asylum on our southern borders is just karma. Karma resulting from our policies in the 70's, 80s, and 90s that intruded on the countries and peoples of Central America. Remember "Iran-Contra?" Remember death squads? Remember slaughtered missionary nuns and priests laying in ditches? Every time the people of El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, or any other country rose up against the ruling oligarchs that were exploiting their people, the ruling oligarchs came running to Washington crying "the communists are coming," "the communists are coming." And Washington responded with arms, military training, and "advisors" to suppress what in most cases was a legitimate uprising by the people.
Well, that US policy supporting the right wing oligarchs in Central America in the 70s, etc. has come back to bite us on our southern border. It is nothing more than karma. We own the glut of asylum seekers on our southern borders. We need to deal with it.
319
@LarSim Absolutely. One does not need to go to far back, or dig very deep to realize this..
31
@LarSim it’s hardly fair to blame today’s problems totally on the US for things that happened 40, 50 years ago. Yes we made mistakes but the leaders of Honduras, El Salvador and Ecuador bear far more responsibility than us. The violence in the so-called Northern Triangle has increased exponentially in the past decade, and local law enforcement is close to non-existent, so the local gangs run rampant with impunity. How is the US is responsible for that? On the contrary, the US has already supplied the area with billions of dollars in aid to fight rising crime, with limited results. State corruption seriously decreases assistance efforts’ effectiveness. These problems should not all be laid at our feet.
32
@LarSim The U.S.'s meddling in Central American affairs for political or profitable reasons goes back farther than the 70's. For example, read up on the Dulles brothers in government and business (the United Fruit Company) in the 1950s. Also the Bay of Pigs fiasco in the early 60s. The U.S. has done a lot of bad things to our American neighbors to the south. And we've been repeating that policy in the Middle East in recent decades. That's why H.W. Bush didn't continue the Gulf War with an invasion into Iraq to get Hussein. He was advised that if we break it, we'll buy it. Too bad his son didn't get the same advice (or if he did, had listened to it.)
We broke various countries of Latin America. Thus I do agree that to some extent our chickens are coming home to roost, and we do have some moral responsibility to the victims (and their descendants) for our self-motivated interference.
44
My viewpoint will not be liked by the NYT readership, but this lifelong Democrat found no one on either debate stage that I could vote for, and the issue is immigration. What we have now amounts to open borders. Coming to the U.S. through Mexico has now become international, with people from Africa and other countries joining those from Central America in crossing into the U.S. and requesting asylum. The Democrats will do absolutely nothing about it. We, as a nation, cannot take in the poor of the world. It is not possible. And to provide all the world's poor with health care, a free education, and with AOC's proposal guaranteed jobs and housing. It is flat out ludicrous!! I have no political home at this point. My hope is for one more candidate on the Democratic side - a centrist!
220
@Bette Andresen Get a grip, please. There is no Democrat advocating for open borders or for not following the law. In fact, we have rules in place and laws to guide, but it is the President and his party that are making a mockery of the rule of law here. If Congress wanted to come to an agreement on how to handle things legally, they could, but one party in particular has a zero-tolerance policy and wants things to stay much as they are. That would be the Republicans. To your point about free education and health care for migrants, nobody avoids paying taxes in this country, including migrants. They pay through sales taxes, through license fees, through off-loaded real estate taxes, etc., and if they have kids, have every right to send them to school along with everybody else. If the migrants are here illegally but working, they also wind up paying payroll withholding taxes and SS taxes just like everyone else, don't be fooled into believing otherwise. From a math standpoint, we could absorb fully half of the entire populations of the troubled Central American countries and the % of 'illegal' migrants in our country would jump from 3% of our population to a whopping 6%. Hardly being 'overrun' are we? I live in a city where fully 1/3 of the population is Hispanic/Latino, and for the life of me I can't figure out what drives the fear that the rest of 'white' America lives with here. The American way of life is not being destroyed in any way or form because of asylum seekers.
85
@Bette Andresen Completely agree with you. And your other commenter was apparently not listening during the debate. This election will be fought on immigration and democrats only plan is to reward illegal immigrants with more benefits. That will elect Trump to four more years and I'm afraid the country can't take four more years.
35
@Bette Andresen The Trump administration could handle the refugees at the border effectively, without all the pain, drama and turmoil. Both Obama and George W. Bush saw higher numbers of immigrants arriving at the Southwest than Trump has. Were there stories during their administrations about children in cages, family separations, disease and suffering? No. Why is it different with Trump? Because he wants it this way. The disaster at the border is manufactured by Trump to create fear and division, to gin up his base. The US can handle this situation humanely and fairly, if we want to. Trump does not. Don’t fall for his cruel theatrics.
41
The problem has been decades in the making and, sadly, not even the current turmoil will likely be sufficient incentive for politicians to attempt to solve it, much less solve it correctly. Half measures, should we ever get around to actually facing things, more judges, more patrol, fancier accommodations for detainees, are not the answer. We need to get out of the migrant business entirely. It's a loser with no upside for us. We need immigration in the long term, given the current birth rate and our aging population, as well as for the vitality and skills that foreigners can contribute, but it needs to be carefully planned out, rational and strictly enforced, not the absurd free-for-all we have been living with since the mid-1960s. An absolute moratorium on uninvited migrants and asylum seekers. Perhaps that will help concentrate the minds of policymakers to work out a plan that actually benefits the country.
19
You are either for limits on immigration or unlimited immigration. There is no middle ground.
Yes, we must ensure that our holding facilities are humane. Yes, we need to have clear policies and quotas for refugees and other immigrants. Yes, we need to help Central American countries deal with problems at the source.
But if you are for limits on immigration, then the law must be enforced. If you enter illegally from a country where you had an opportunity to apply at a US consulate or the UNHCR, there should be no right to stay.
If you are for unlimited immigration, then expect that strains on the system will lead to breakdowns. Unless legislated into law, expect that a disregard for our laws will lead to an authoritarian backlash that also disregards laws.
There is no moral purity to one side or the other. It is a matter of being practical and accepting that you are responsible for the consequences.
69
@RAD61 I disagree. We have many laws on the books that are enforced half-heartedly. Law enforcement has to prioritize just like everyone else. You can view any kind of relatively minor offenses as a problem to be managed, rather than eliminated. An example would be declining to prosecute low level marijuana sales, while busting major heroin syndicates.
7
@mercury S
I fail to see the point of your disagreement.
It seems you might be saying that the border control and enforcement of the border laws should de prioritized?
Deprioritzed in favor of what other law?
Maybe we could just send all the border law breakers to San Francisco?
3
@RAD61 Great comment.
1
Until America can solve the problems of our poor than it can open its doors . Everyone seems to forget this side of the coin ; senior citizens who can barely afford to feed themselves and have to choose between eating or paying for the medication they need ; homeless vets and others living under bridges without the help of mental counseling and help , american children that are hungry because there isn't enough money to make it thru the month , adults and children who can't afford to see a doctor or a dentist (never mind the bemoaned toothbrushes ) no heat in the winter or air conditioning in the summer for the elderly and children who are the most susceptible to the vagaries of weather . The conditions of the camps are deplorable and mean-spirited but they chose to take that chance . The poor american elderly and children have no choice ; they are the victims of poverty in a country that can and should make things better for them instead of being rendered invisible . I say , close the doors thru a sensible and stricter immigration policy , solve our own problems and than let others in thru quotas that make sense . We can do better by cleaning our own house first . Most Americans have worked hard for many years to have a better life too without the benefit of charity .
67
@sm
Immigration is not the reason why Americans in poverty are having such a hard time. Indeed, for elderly Americans, immigration is a lifeline, as immigrants constitute a huge percentage of those working in assisted living facilities and nursing homes.
Immigrants only "take jobs away from Americans" if those Americans are (unlike the immigrants) unwilling to leave a place where there is no economic future, and take the risk of traveling somewhere new and learning new skills. One can sympathize, certainly, with the many Americans who can't bring themselves to leave the dying small towns, industrial cities, or rural areas where they have lived all their lives, or who can't leave because they can't sell their house and therefore have no source of cash to start over. However, many of the immigrants have left behind just as much emotional attachment and risked far more. Plus they have often had to learn a new language and endure a culture shock far greater than that of moving from a small America town to a thriving American city.
16
@sm Either/or is a false choice. With good will and good leadership the US is rich enough to address both our domestic problems and the plight of would-be immigrants. As another commenter has sensibly pointed out, immigrants are not the cause of the problems of our poor and elderly. In some situations -- especially care of the elderly -- immigrant labor is a valuable part of the solution.
Obviously, this immigration must be controlled by sound policies and efficient enforcement. We can be pro-immigration without going to the nonsensical extreme of open borders.
2
The first step is to resurrect the 2013 bipartisan immigration reform bill (which would have passed if not for the GOP’s “rule” that a majority of their party needed to be in support of a bill before it could come to a floor vote).
The second step is to recognize that the only way to cut down on economic migration is to reduce the “push” by improving conditions in the country people are leaving. And enforcing employment restrictions here would act to reduce the “pull”.
Finally we need to understand that removing over 10 million undocumented individuals, even if possible, would be not only a humanitarian but also an economic disaster. Basically we need a policy that is forward, not backward, looking.
32
The border gets the headlines, but another issue is the stunning extent to which government policies are populating science infrastructure with arrivals from countries that are rivals economically and militarily.
14
I wish Mr. Douthat had included the caveat that decriminalization does not necessarily mean legalization. It means that the existing civil law enforcement structure would continue to do what it always did before illegal entry was made a criminal act. According to my understanding, deportation is still a function of civil law.
We're never going to make any progress if we deal in half-truths and scary memes. I think many people would welcome honest discussion to find some way forward in dealing with the problem of unauthorized immigrants.
18
@gesneri
So why did Obama choose to make it MORE difficult for Cuban refugees to get legal status? So Obama’s actions forced Cuban refugees into detention facilities when the status quo was for them to remain outside detention facilities while having their asylum claims processed. So Senator Cory Booker recently highlighted Obama’s decision by helping 4 women fleeing domestic violence in Cuba across our border and into a detention facility. Prior to Obama’s executive order these women would probably have been able to stay with family members that would be better prepared to help them heal after being abused by their husbands.
4
@Sebastian Cremmington I do not have special insight into Obama's motivation. But having asylum seekers remain outside detention facilities while their applications are processed is an invitation for them to simply remain in the country whether their application is approved or not.
6
When President Obama and Ben Rhodes determined that the vast majority of Cuban refugees were actually economic refugees and not political refugees Obama made it MORE difficult for them to get legal status and sent them to detention facilities. Obama made this common sense executive order for two reasons—Cubans were taking advantage of our generosity AND many Cubans were engaging in dangerous sea crossings. The Democrats in Congress must follow Obama’s lead and deal with this crisis by removing “carrots” that encourage reckless behavior...that is the HUMANITARIAN position.
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The Democratic Party, and the Left in general, has absolutely no interest in stopping, or even reducing, illegal immigration. On the contrary, their plan -- which they hardly even bother to conceal any more -- is to encourage as much illegal immigration as possible, with the goal of amnestying them all at some point in the future and turning them into Democratic voters. Critics sometimes argue that the Democrats should make an effort to dial back the identity politics and moderate some of their more extreme policies, in order to avoid alienating traditional white working-class voters, who in the past have been a mainstay of the Democratic Party. But this is hardly necessary when you can import millions of poor non-white voters from other countries!
The frightening thing is that if the Republicans don't recognize the danger and get their act together, this plan could easily work.
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@JohnB This argument is so old, I was a kid when I first heard it from "conservatives". Then it was directed at those who supported civil rights for African-Americans. 10 years later a similar argument was used to fight the unionization of farm labor, which had a huge number of Latinos. Here we go again. Same old song. Same old reason: bigotry.
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@JohnB Democrats have already alienated "white working class voters." They are the ones who got Trump elected. And, the Dems recent debate positions indicate that they are not trying to win them back - already having labeled them as stupid and racist. In contrast to the "country club Republicans" that liberals for years have denigrated, Rs now have an army of "trailer park Republicans" to help push them over the top. Dems are now indeed focused on bringing as many illegals as possible into the USA, as their children, thanks to birthright citizenship, will be legal (and reliably Democrat) voters in 18 years.
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@JohnB
You say the Democrats' goal is to "encourage as much illegal immigration as possible."
Can you point to a single Democrat in Congress or running for president who has "encouraged" illegal immigration?
No? Of course you can't.
Repeating the daily dose of Fox News lies, JohnB, shines a light on people who aren't fact-based.
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The radical right WANTS (let alone needs) the issue more than the solution regarding immigration. Full Stop.
Back in 2013, there was bipartisan support in the Senate on a comprehensive reform package that offered a path to citizenship, massive amounts of funds for border security, and a whole host of other things that would put teeth into any ongoing security.
It was not even brought up for a vote by the republican controlled House and in particular by the Speaker. (much like the same thing with the Constitutionally backed pick for a Supreme Court nominee by a Democratic President)
The issue underpins the base of the republican party that is rabid to hurl out invective and blame anyone else with a different skin color for their lot in life. Essentially republicans need it as a wedge issue to have any chance at all to win any elected office.
So here we are, and all that needs to be done is wait until Democrats have control of the House, the Senate and the White House again. (very soon)
Then something can be done.
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@FunkyIrishman
I hope "very soon" but I am sorry that I would beg against it. The Senate is lost for probably multiple decades. The Court is lost for at least a generation. There is still a chance in keeping the House and regaining the White House. It will be a long and hard fight; it is unwise to underestimate our challenges.
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@Funkyirishman: Thank you for pointing out some of the provisions of the Gang of Eight bipartisan bill which passed the Senate but was blocked by John Boehner, the Republican Speaker of the House. The only part of your comment I disagree with is that the Democrats should wait until after the election to pass a comprehensive immigration bill which includes both border security and a path to citizenship. If we want the Democrats to take back the Senate and Presidency, I think the Bill should be introduced now. It could pass the House. If blocked by Mitch McConnell, that should be stressed on the campaign trail. Pointing out which members in Congress are really interested in dealing with immigration. The 2013 bill could be a framework to improve and build on. The Bill also contained improved employment verification measures, improved work visa options, etc. During the Democratic Primary debates the only candidate who emphasized strong border security was Michael Bennett, one of the sponsors of this bill. Yes, we need to protect the dreamers, stop family separation, provide humane treatment for people crossing the border and a path to citizenship, but we do not need to feed into the Republican "open borders" argument.
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@Diane
I actually agree with you, and I have said as much previously. I should have included that proviso as an add on to me comment, but thank you for pointing it out.
In actuality, there should be a blizzard of comprehensive bills passed by the House (showing the nation that the Democratic party is the people's party and that they are doing the business of the nation. They are actually working and doing the above on a much smaller scale.
Of course, the media is continuously fascinated with their wind up toy in the White House, so ... you know .
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If there’s a substantive argument about immigration policy going on, I’m not aware of it. All I see is Trump & the Republicans playing politics through race-baiting on the airwaves & cruelty at the border. And of course the Democrats jump into the self-defeating native vs. immigrant fight, in which they helpfully provide “gotcha” quotes so the right wing media can peddle the lie that Democrats support “open borders.”
Undocumented immigration and labor is a problem. A problem for the undocumented. The rest of us get cheap labor, cheap food, & tax payers with no political voice. But the political value of immigrant bashing & moral grandstanding means no one is going to address the real problem when the fake problem is so profitable.
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@Martin The rest of us also get a very tight housing market in many cities, higher taxes and fees to pay for the emergency hospital services used by the undocumented and for the government benefits provided to their American born children.
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@Howard Jarvis The tight housing market in San Francisco, for example, is not caused by immigration. Who is gentrifying the Mission? Not Latinos; they're the ones being pushed out.
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@Howard Jarvis yes, of course. Those immigrants from Central America are driving rents up through the roof. It isn’t the foreign real estate investment, the well paid management, or the Kushners of the world profiting off of wage earners.
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I suppose some Democrats are reacting to the GOP's purposeful inhumanity with an excess of compassion. It may be a political sin in a country that elected a white nationalist as President but it's not much of a moral one.
It is also a much stronger base to build a workable immigration system on then the cruelty-is-the-point approach of the Trumpists.
There is time in this election cycle for Democrats to describe in detail what they envision for immigration. Trump has the racist vote locked up. Clarity is the key for convincing the undecided.
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@LT
There is time in this election cycle for Democrats to describe in detail what they envision for immigration.
Apart from the wretched cruelty of Republicans, Democrats must have a plan but unfortunately we don't.
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