To Elena, a parent named in this article: The science on antibiotics has been settled. Antibiotics combat bacteria. That is irrefutable. The reason antibiotic resistance exists is because doctors prescribed those drugs when a bacterial infection didn't exist and parents, perhaps knowing such an infection didn't exist but wanting to do something for thier sick children, gave these drugs to their children. (Of course, some parents just followed their children's pediatricians' recommendation and unwittingly gave their children antibiotics thinking a bacterial infection was present). Do not conflate truth with your false narrative.
51
qMy child goes to a Waldorf School and is vaccinated. I prefer Waldorf because of its no screen time policies. Yes, Waldorf has it's peculiar ways, but so do most "regular" American schools. Think of the sick acceptance of violence prevalent in most schools (through video games, movies, TV, and playground games reliant on fake guns) and you see why mine goes to Waldorf. it's too bad these supremely negligent parents are giving us smart ones a bad name. Hopefully, since my child is vaccinated, he won't be affected by these children of outlandish parents who refuse to vaccinate their own children.
19
The author inaccurately labels secular opposition to inoculation as left wing. For the most part, this is far from true. Yes, some on the left might argue that requiring inoculations is a way of enriching the drug companies or the doctors, but these aren’t the people your article describes. Rather, they are well educated, affluent science deniers who question the idea of medical proof. Their skepticism comes from the belief that truth is always questionable, that facts are one person’s opinion.
Most leftists are politically occupied by class and fairness issues. They part company with science skeptics as much as with those whose world view is based primarily on religious interpretation.
21
Ms. Larson of the Waldorf School: It is indeed your role to adopt a policy of vaccinations at your schools. Any school's primary responsibility is maintaining the safety of its student body. Without a policy on immunizations, your school is not able to properly care for your students. Also, it should go without saying, but clearly there's a need to state this... another responsibility of our schools is educating parents regarding their responsibilities. Please, Ms. Larson, fulfill your responsibilities to the children in your care and to their parents.
31
These same parents, shivering irrationally over their little ones now, will be quite shocked when their kids get older and start experimenting with illegal drugs! And driving drunk. And doing all the other crazy things kids do.
The parents are really trapped in their own magical thinking. They’re in for a big surprise.
24
"He taught that diseases were influenced by “astral bodies” "
And people send their children to schools founded by this fool? Amazing. Just amazing.
38
I guess I don't understand the meaning of "progressive" anymore. Just because ideas are anti-establishment doesn't mean they encourage progress - as if we agree on what progress entails. I'd bet that the parents at these schools generally are pretty conventional in their economic and professional lives and get their anti-establishment street cred through their kids.
13
It’s telling, to me, that these parents wish to remain mostly anonymous. It tells me that they know that their “beliefs” are not scientifically based and are dangerous.
27
I am astonished. I’m astonished that in an establishment full of well educated people, this kind of un-informed text could be published.
I am a rising 9th grader at a Waldorf school.
My friend shared this article with me; she also attends the school. She expressed her anger and frustration towards this article and how it paints our education in a discriminatory and hateful light, to me. So I decided to read it.
After I read this, I came close to tears. I already have to endure people calling me and my peers crazy and referring to my school as a cult. I do not need the extra ammunition provided by this article.
Green Meadow is one of hundreds of Waldorf schools around the globe. I refuse to let a couple parents from a single school tarnish the reputation of a well-formed educational system. I am vaccinated and my peers are vaccinated. Your “evidence” doesn’t back up the point you are trying to make.
My education is valid, just like Traditional, Montessori, Quaker, and Reggio Emilia educations are.
In this article you write about the epidemic in health and ignorance which are both very real and present in our world now. But I guess the anti-vax believers aren’t the only ones misinformed.
39
Here's a thought for those who refuse to vaccinate their kids. If their kids get the measles, they pay all the medical expenses out-of-pocket. If my kid then gets measles, and my kid is vaccinated, they pay all the medical expenses out-of-pocket. If my vaccinated kid dies, they are liable for a wrongful death lawsuit.
These people increase all our medical costs, for insurance costs are shared by all of us. Why should society as a whole be forced to subsidize their intransigence?
29
Given their position, it's $25000 to put your child in danger. Not my idea of a good school.
And as the article points out - the studies they want were already done. Full records, long term, not paid by big pharma, not from the CDC - and they either choose not to read it, or hide from it.
14
I am a Waldorf graduate who was raised by divorced parents on opposite sides of the vaccination "debate." Both parents sometimes won, and so for many years I had to memorize the unique randomness of my medical chart.
By my mid/late-teens I was allowed to make my own medical decisions. I've been up-to-date on my shots ever since.
But that doesn't mean I think this article is worth reading. I have lived the complexities of this "debate," and they are myriad. Ultimately though it's a conversation about: personal healing and parental love and comprehensive education and civic duty. The background is an American healthcare system that has proven unreliable on many levels for many years; the result is that some USA parents have developed a mentality of self-augmented self-care. Nowadays public+private moms+dads are looking for new ways to keep their kids healthy.
So here's what i know: I'm that lucky eighties baby with one Waldorf parent. I was eating organic and lamely trying to mediate 15yrs before it got cool. My Waldorf parent taught me to be discerning and distrusting and cautious and open-minded and individualistic with my medicine and healthcare and overall self-care.
So here's a question for you: if I'm now currently an above-average healthy adult, does that mean I should write an article about how public schools are making Americans fat?
Or wold that be a waste of time, at best. An ignorant cheap-shot at worst.
Because after all, I went to public high school.
24
@jackson- there is also something "called walking around with blinders on". This describes perfectly the mentality of extremists such as Waldorf-ers, and so-called religious zealots. Being taught to be distrusting and individualistic isn't something to brag about. It means you were taught not to deal with reality. i suppose Science isn't your strong point, but believing in superstions and other-worldly rituals are.
18
Just wondering why the school’s do not automatically vaccinate? When I was in lower education back in England medical staff came to jab us. Remember standing as a little kid in those awful lines waiting my turn and trying to be brave. Too many freedoms today that put other people at risk. Not fair.
24
Please use the link below to read the official anthroposophic (Waldorf) medicine statement on vaccinations. Far from “anti-vax”. I wish the author would have included it in the article. Facts are important.
https://www.ivaa.info/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/brochures_and_books/Vaccine_Statement_Med_Section___IVAA_15April2019.pdf
21
It used to be that every village had an idiot. Now, due to the wonders of the internet, they can all gather in one virtual place and feed each ofher dangerous, life-threatening nonsense.
49
Gotta love Waldorf schools... a bunch of parents with graduate degrees falling for a load of hooey about how kids are supposed to learn by listening to stories while shelling peas and knitting socks like they did in the old days.
71
@Di .....and banning textbooks until the kids are in 6th Grade!
22
That comment is rude and uninformed. I know Waldorf School graduates, students and teachers. They are extremely bright, well balanced, successful and I must say not as judgmental as you are.
32
So much hysteria over the measles “epidemic.” 100+ articles in the TImes this year alone. Must be a lot of kids in this country dying from such a deadly disease! How many you ask? Zero. Zero this year, last year and the year before. In fact the last childhood death from measles in this country was fifteen years ago. But nevermind, lets persecute and scapegoat anyone who dares challenge the multibillion dollar medical establishment. Lets wipe out religious freedoms, let’s advocate for censorship with regards to everything vaccine related. Lets make all 72 recommended innoculations mandatory and then add the other 250 vaccines in the pipeline to the schedule. “My body, my choice?” Ha. Your body is the property of Big Pharma, which generates profits of between 10 and 20 thousand dollars for every course of childhood vaccinations. And with no legal liability for the thousands and thousands and thousands of vaccine injuries it’s just pure gravy. God bless the Great Pharmocracy formerly known as the US of A!
30
@Alex
Pharma may be exploiting vaccinations for profit but vaccines were initially developed to combat a problem. I think you're confused about the purpose of vaccinations because you're angry at the business people who have no purpose other than to stuff money into their pockets.
62
@Alex
This CDC site states the last measles death in the US was in 2015 and not "15 years ago". https://www.cdc.gov/measles/downloads/MeaslesDataAndStatsSlideSet.pdf
Maybe you had a different source with better information than the CDC. Measles in the US had been eliminated in 2000 (again according to the CDC) due to the vaccination programs. Now it is back.
85
@Alex
I think that you may be confused. The modern ICU can deal with most of the deadly effects that measles displayed in the past. Thus kids (& adults) live despite having the disease. The fact that they may still have hearing loss, fertility loss and even cognitive loss does not factor in your statement. Are you really arguing that it is better to have a disease & be very sick & still live, than not have have the disease at all?
This also does not take into account the immune-compromised who must try to live in such an environment. Should schools who allow (& often support) turn away children simply because they have a poorly functioning immune system? Waldorf only for the rich and healthy? Sounds kind of elitist to me.
88
The ant-vaccination movement may be a serious risk to public health. But so are agricultural and environmental protection policies in the U.S. Witness the increase in chronic health problems. What causes this increase? Food, our environment, the air we breathe, the water we drink, the chemicals sprayed onto fabrics, the plastic water bottles we drink from? The cost of drugs and medical care and medical insurance are all serious risks to public health. The citizens of this country have many many reasons to distrust the government. Question everything. I don’t know what I would do if I had an infant whose immune system was supposed to be bombarded by dozens of immunizations. I don’t blame these parents at all for making the choices they do. They are trying to make the best decisions they can with information that is legitimately questionable given the government’s track record. See Flint water, Love Canal, Agent Orange, debris from the Twin Tower site.
25
@longlg
All your examples are of the Government deliberately lying. We must carefully examine Government propaganda, especially today.
Vaccines are promoted not by the Government, but by every responsible scientist.
32
The problem is they are not making decisions only for themselves and their children. They are making decisions that effect the health of all they come in contact with. I don’t respect their excuses just as I don’t accept the excuses of climate deniers! I believe you would rethink this if you or a loved one was exposed to a dangerous disease because of one persons “opinion”.
28
@longlg
Questioning authority is fine and healthy. But then you have to be willing to accept the data. Do some people have adverse reactions to vaccines? Yes. Does this mean that vaccines are unsafe generally? No, every medication causes side effects in some people. However, the chance that someone will be seriously injured by vaccines is very small. The problem with vaccines from a personal liberty standpoint is that in order for them to be effective, you have to have a high percentage of the population vaccinated. Like it or not, we live in a collective society. Should other parents have the right to endanger my children by exposing them to polio or measles or whatever because they distrust the government and cannot accept the overwhelming evidence that vaccines are safe and effective? No. Vaccines should be mandatory for everyone who can medically tolerate them, period.
32
First of all let's get this basic fact out fromt: Johns Hopkins in a recent study of stated causes of deaths of patients receiving medical treatment has put the third leading cause of death in the US as "seeking medical treatment." Other studies of the data suggest it is much worse.
Doctors and nurses are probably not serial murderers (though some of the worst serial killers in the world are from these professios)n so how do these figures come about? The pharmaceutical industry is tasked with coming up with treatments and equipment for doctors based on their research. This research is purportedly based on science so doctors and medical professionals are obliged to follow the instructions of the pharmaceutical corporations. The is a lot of evidence from whistle blowers to suggest that very little of the research is valid. Pharmaceutical corporations are the leading advertising clients of all media. So is it likely that print, TV etc media is likely to be anxious to hold them to account?
Maybe this is the context that needs to be present whem ascessing the arguments of "anti-vaxxers." Jus sayin'.
11
Perhaps a lot of the deaths ascribed to ‘seeking medical treatment’ are due to secondary infections acquired in hospital settings, not due to pharmaceuticals. Perhaps comprehensively assessing data instead of cherry-picking sentences that suit preconceived opinions would be helpful. Jus sayin
35
@Sunrise250 - Good to know I'm not a serial murderer (probably).
11
The NYT has always enthusiastically encouraged vaccines. However, anybody interested in this debate might consider asking themselves the following:
1. Can you name 5 ingredients in the MMR vaccine?
2. Can you name 5 academic or medical journal articles you yourself have read about measles, measles transmission, the history of the disease, or the vaccine?
3. Can you answer questions 1 and 2 for any vaccine you have taken yourself, or given to your children?
4. If your answers are "No," an important question is "Why not?"
There's a lot more to this than reading a few NYT articles or local news headlines.
Start here:
https://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/May-2019/what-is-going-on-with-measles.aspx
15
@Can You
Can you name 5 valid studies by actual scientists that show vaccines are not safe?
No, you can't, because there aren't any. But even if I can't name 5 vaccine ingredients off the top of my head, I can at least look them up, and so can you -- try www.cdc.gov. MMR vaccine is well studied and all the data are included alongside the recommendations for vaccination, including the information on MMR vaccine safety. If only you were inclined to read the actual data.
When all of the world's infectious diseases practitioners are agreed that measles can kill and that measles vaccine is safe, you have to postulate a conspiracy of incredibly massive proportions to think they might all be in collusion. And to what end?
62
@Can You
Wow, great point. And now that you mention it, I'm starting to rethink a lot of things:
1. Maybe the Earth is flat. Have I ever gone out and measured it myself? Have I ever, myself, read any mathematical proofs showing it is not?
2. Come to think of it, THEY tell me the Earth orbits the Sun, but have I ever actually read any journal article that really PROVES it? In my personal experience, it sure looks like the sun orbits the Earth, amirite guys?
3. And come on, they want me to believe in this evolution business? Maybe when I see it with my own eyes! I mean, that sounds like some outdated, 19th-century fluff to me.
No one person can be an expert on every single topic that is relevant to modern life. That's why we rely on experts to study these topics, and we rely on teachers and academics to summarize and debate and educate on topics we don't have the time to study in painstaking detail ourselves.
It's a wonderful thing to have a healthy dose of skepticism about authority, received wisdom, entrenched institutions, etc.
But good god, has it never dawned on people that blind skepticism is just as bad as blind faith?
76
And once you’ve read the above link I suggest you then look at various of the real medical journals to see what medically qualified people actually think! Perhaps those without vaccinations should be quarantined offshore somewhere for their and, more importantly, everyone else’s safety.
23
There are huge distinctions among the terms: "educated," "intelligent," and "informed." Most of the Waldorf parents are educated, many are intelligent, and some are informed, but a 60% unvaccinated rate is absurd. There is no excuse for people jeopardizing the health of their children (my guess is that these same parents would be justifiably apoplectic over the issue of corporal punishment) as well as that of their communities, but one explanation is the Internet itself. The Internet is a great resource but it is also a trap because it contains a lot of garbage - pure junk capable of suggesting "support" for virtually any nonsensical premise that one can formulate. If you are not a critical or analytical thinker or if you are wedded to a preconceived notion of how the world works, the Internet can trap you in a briar patch of stupid.
24
I’m so glad the New York State Legislature has passed this bill. I’m reminded of my time working in Albany when bikers would demonstrate en masse at the Capitol protesting the then recently passed helmet laws. While some made the argument that individual liberties were being compromised, I accepted the argument that the impact of an accident that could have been prevented on society and the individual was far greater than the loss of liberty to not wear a helmet.
We are now seeing the direct impact of those that do not vaccinate their children on others. How would you feel if your child died because others in your community failed to vaccinate their last children. The State has wisely acted in this instance by balancing the desires of the individual against the protection of the community.
18
You wrote: "We are now seeing the direct impact of those that do not vaccinate their children on others."
What exactly are we seeing?
1
Now that this bill has passed and is now law, pro-vaccine advocates need to target those pols who voted against the bill, especially the handful of sellout Democrats. Bye bye come next November.
6
When one of those unvaccinated kids comes home with measles and infects their pregnant mom, mom will be singing a different tune.
Check out the effect of measles on child in the womb.
Not pretty.
23
Big pharma makes the oval blue pill too
Will the Waldorf dads not buy it(as it’s a big pharma conspiracy)
I doubt whether they will let nature takes its course.
12
Well, NY State is about to become the next state to remove "religious" exemptions. Hopefully we stop regressing and having more children contract diseases that we have a vaccine for.
8
If they read it on the internet it must be true. Eventually, natural selection will show them the error in their thinking.
3
As a former Waldorf parent, (three children, all of whom were vaccinated), it is sad to see Waldorf education portrayed this way in the media, and Rudolf Steiner portrayed as such a crackpot. Often people whose ideas are ahead of their time are viewed this way. Waldorf educates children to become purposeful, thinking, contributing members of society. Limiting exposure to technology and media are just one small part of a Waldorf education, but for some reason this is always given so much attention as if it is such a deprivation! Educators and parents in the mainstream are just now beginning to question the value (and potential harm) of too much screen time and relying so heavily on technology in the classroom. Tech parents in Silicon Valley are sending their kids to schools that limit or delay computer use. Who knows what other elements of Waldorf pedagogy will ultimately be seen as having validity? Experiential, interdisciplinary, project based learning are "new" trends in education. Waldorf schools have been doing these things for decades. Before passing judgement on Waldorf education based on this article, I encourage people to visit a Waldorf school, learn more about this alternative, and see for themselves.
22
@Mel
Tell us about spirits and astrology. Tell us about Steiner’s harmful outdated thoughts on diseases and medicine. Tell us about Steiner’s thoughts on anyone not...white. He was indeed a crackpot with a few sweet ideas mixed in. He started a cult of sorts based on his odd strict unfounded notions. Thanks but I’ll take western medicine and vaccines and open-hearted diversity and my own ideas about play and freetime and reading and technology and structure and lack thereof. A few good ideas does not a genius across the board make.
20
Thank you. 3 of my grandchildren, who are vaccinated, attend a Waldorf School. I think anyone reading this very negative article should also spend some time with Waldorf educated children and decide for themselves the pros and cons. We mustn’t “throw the baby out with the bath water” so to speak.
8
There are a couple of fool-proof ways(in my opinion) that can circumvent the antivaxxers arguments and demands and ensure that almost all kids are immunized. First, manadate that all schools, including colleges and charter schools attain at least a 95% vaccination rate(minumum to achieve herd immnunity) preferably as close to 100% as possible. For the small percentage left, legitimate medical exemptions come first(note:"legitimate" for California is currently debating legislation regarding that, though the governor is another who needs a reality check), then if any exemptions are left , religious, then lastly, personal exemptions. Failure to achieve the goal, results in cut off of state aid, and accreditation. Second, regarding doctor shopping for illegitimate medical exemptions; fine and suspend any medical professional for giving a false medical exemption or encouraging a parent to obtain one, that's for the first offense; subsequent violations, fines would be increased and and license revocation, with possible jail time. Take away enforcement from the State Medical Boards for they already are very lax on reprimanding their physicians for ethics and law violations. Once you go after these crooked unethical doctors and medical professionals watch how fast compliance will happen. Seems like threats and applying punishment are the only ways people respond. This tells a lot about human beings in general.
5
Parental refusal of vaccinations constitutes a violation of the child’s fundamental right to lead a healthy life
14
I wonder how many of these progressive, anti-vaxer parents bemoan climate change deniers, complaining in frustration that conservatives don’t believe in science. To me, they are two sides of the same coin. Too many people believe in science only when it defends their own opinions.
20
The measles and rubella vaccines came on the scene in the 1960s. If these parents are in their mid 50s or younger, and were raised in this country, odds are they have received these vaccines themselves. Do they think that anything bad has happened to themselves because of this? If not, why do they think the vaccines would harm their children?
17
Welcome to the dark ages. Suddenly, after the eradication of so many communicable diseases thank to vaccines, we are faced with individuals who are so "knowledgeable" without having any credentials to back them up. Vaccines are not only for measles, but they also prevent diphtheria, polio, mumps among other diseases that the public at large is not familiar with. Yes, the possibility of death with measles is not as great as with diphtheria. Perhaps they should witness a child dying of it to have a "come to Jesus moment".
9
It’s the credentials that they’re suspicious of in the first place.
1
I am very familiar with a family that attended this Green Meadow Waldorf School. In addition to the children not receiving vaccinations, their father - a NY-licensed physician - allowed them to visit a measles-endemic country, contract measles or an illness with similar features, and board an aircraft (or two) back to America without bringing them to medical attention. When they arrived to America, he made them all get vaccinated against their mother's wishes. Their mother was the one who insisted that the family move to attend this school and was also the driver in the decision to omit vaccinations. This is not only in contradiction to the Hippocratic Oath but downright criminal (all NY-licensed physicians are required to report measles and diseases suspicious for measles to the Dept of Health).
Regardless of what's "right or wrong" or what's "autonomy" or whatnot, there's really little question that the people involved in this community are concerning if they are seriously breaching their professional obligations to uphold the ideals of Rudolf Steiner and the Waldorf School philosophy.
15
@SR- please report this so-called quack of a doctor to the authorities. He needs to have his license revoked and jailed.
7
@lou andrews Unfortunately, this information was provided to me by his children, so I don't have any proof to provide any authorities and I am certain they wouldn't speak out against the breadwinner of their family.
4
I’m sorry that the vaccination issue has become so polarizing. There are arguments on both sides. Some vaccines are essential, others less so, yet all are urged upon us regardless of our individual health and circumstances and location. Do we have a reason to put blind trust in big Pharma nowadays? Really? After the opioid crisis, the spiraling cost of drugs? The clear overriding greed of the industry does not inspire my trust at all.
I (exhaustively) treated severe and disabling allergies for years with the conventional American AMA medical treatments and found no relief whatsoever. I then happened to find an anthroposophic doctor whose remedies cured me. Completely. 20 years later I still don’t suffer at all.
Don’t be so quick to pooh pooh and denigrate, and I would ask writers not to label people as flakes until they have a deeper understanding of what they write.
11
It’s not big pharma pushing vaccines as there’s very little profit to be made. The people pushing them are pediatricians, public health professionals and epidemiologists. And your story about curing your allergies, which for the record I believe, in support of vaccine suspicion is part of the problem. Anecdotes about allergy relief are not a basis to give credence to ideas undermining support of vaccines for possibly deadly or debilitating communicable diseases.
20
There are not arguments on both sides. There are multiple studies that prove efficacy and safety. Then there are people who believe what the read in the internet, or an anecdotal cocktail conversation.
17
I’m a parent of a Waldorf child who is vaccinated because that’s what our pediatrician recommended. My brother is a molecular biologist. My sister in law is a pediatric disease physician. My sister is a science teacher. The tone of this article and the comments is judgmental and uninformed. Anti-science is not a core principle of Waldorf education. Science and math are core to the Waldorf curriculum. To imply otherwise is irresponsible. Case in point; to state “Many of these arguments have been embraced or allowed to flourish unopposed at Green Meadow because of the school ethos, even though not all Waldorf parents oppose vaccination.” Because of the ethos implies that vaccination is a topic discussed as part of the curriculum or policies of the school. It is not. And it is wholly irresponsible of you to implicate an educational system as educating this unfortunate view of SOME of the parents. Please be more curious in your journalism and look to understand ‘why’ this view exists rather than to judge an entire system of progressive education by one unfortunate view held by part of the population.
110
@David Nottoli the title of the story seems accurate - do you disagree? The title is not, "terrible system of education," nor is it, "all parents are ignorant." You exhort the authors to inquire "why" the views of some parents exist, and while that seems like well-covered territory by other articles in other publications (answering "why do groups of people take actions supported by beliefs contrary to mainstream science that are objectively harmful to themselves and those they love?" - nothing Waldorf specific there) an interesting question is what it is about Waldorf in particular that attracts a greater share of such parents percentage-wise than other schools.
If you feel that Waldorf is not alone - and scold NYTimes for failing to report on all the other schools (or the homeschoolers!) who stand out this way - that seems fair (but do post some stats about the offending institutions out there we should all be aware of beyond Waldorf schools).
Still, if a school says it takes no position on vaccination, this is rather telling. It's acts as an alt-medicine dog-whistle that the school welcomes unvaccinated kids who would NOT medically qualify, really, for an exemption. I'm sure the school has a policy that one should not come to school if showing signs of illness and they wouldn't see anything controversial about saying so.
38
@David Nottoli
Can you share with public "Why" this view exists in that school?
8
@David Nottoli the professions that your siblings and in-laws chose to pursue have little to do with the argument at hand.
22
We have a Waldorf School in town. Tuition is very high but I was drawn to the emphasis on outside play, music, art and the warm and welcoming environment. When the assistant director started telling me about astrology and how it influences children’s temperaments I thought he was joking. Nope. I sent my kids to the local public school instead bc they have a similar curriculum, but also teach kids science and math. And public school is free. I just can't listen the anti-science garbage that is prevalent in Oregon.
32
I attended Green Meadow in the 1970s and 80s. (I had to laugh at the description of pastel colors used to avoid inducing anxiety in kids. My education there was among the more distressing experiences of my life.)
For medical care my parents took me to the Anthroposophic/homeopathic doctor in the community associated with the school. I remember the little brown bottles full of bitter potions with odd names, and the tiny sweet white pills we were prescribed for colds and fever.
HOWEVER. In that medical office I was given every childhood vaccine on the schedule at that time. DTP, Polio, MMR.
I first encountered the anti-vax view as a new mother in the early 2000s - a view prevalent among the type of people who would be attracted to Waldorf education, as @DrSam notes. But I agree with him that it's not a principle of the schools themselves. At least, it wasn't when I was a student.
10
Yep. Two Kids. Fully vaccinated to the current standards and schedules. One even more so because of extensive foreign travel.
Healthy and thriving.
5
@Robert
Have you looked at the difference in mortality and morbidity rates from serious infections since the 70s and 80s?
Big difference.
7
Ugh! Please don’t conflate Waldorf education with anti vaccination movement. I’m a Waldorf parent. A doctor and the daughter of a bone marrow transplant recipient.
Vaccines save lives but like every thing, they have risks.
7
Let’s assume that vaccines do cause autism in 1/100 vaccine recipients (I know it is a fact that it does not). One child with autism is better than 10 or more dead children. Vaccines are necessary.
2
The founder said, " rosemary baths were better for diphtheria and that smallpox could be avoided by being mentally prepared to confront it." And parents fork out $25 000 a year to go to this place!
22
I skimmed the essay and follow ups, and
shall communicate complex reality re the
issue.
I am probably as dumb and ignorant as the
usual opponent of vaccine, so I empathize
with mediocre minds.
My take is as simple as it sounds, because
on the awful issue, the establishment doctrine
is mine, I hereby acknowledge.
However, there are surely high i.q. minds
whom don't vaccinate.
In other words if there are brainy well informed
parents who don't accept the concept of
vaccination, then I do not argue.
Metaphysically, I am AGNOSTIC, meaning
I struggle, at least my semi terrific mind
is ambivalent re religious belief.
Vaccine is a fact, and do pro vaxers
whom are highly intelligent and well educated
too worry nevertheless?
I suppose the answer is probably "yes."
To me, duh-boy, it's a matter of statistics:
some are susceptible or unlucky or both.
Try to have a good life, but yes, stuff
happens.
If you go against statistics, there is an
unvaccinated off spring that will
surely love mom and dad still.
Don't drag Buddhism into this. Taiwan, South Korea & Japan, all Buddhism countries, all have very high vaccination rate and minimal anti-vaccination noises.
14
@Robert
There is no coercion in those countries as there is no need.
And yes,vaccine schedules vary from country to country to account for local prevalence.
Nothing to do with Buddhism
6
We are in a strange place where "progressive" means denying science.
16
It’s not strange, progressives deny science every bit as much as conservatives do. They just choose different topics. If the science is anti-business (petroleum industry) conservatives deny it. If the science is pro-business (pharmaceutical industry) the progressives deny it.
2
I am puzzled by your use of "left" and "progressive" to describe the parents in this article. Are these parents that consistently vote for and support progressive liberal causes? Such as...? And the proof is ...? Flaky is not synonymous with "left" or "progressive."
12
When it comes to making scientific judgement who are you going to trust more? a Waldorf Volvo driving soccer mom or a science researcher with sheep skins. OTOH Waldorf parents are low hanging persimmons and avocados.
9
Childhood diseases always killed some in every family, before statistics were kept. Childbirth, which is a natural life cycle event, killed countless women over thousands of years, and still does, though at a tiny fraction in comparison. Medicine isn't all knowing, science isn't full proof, but the average lifespan of almost all people is decades longer than before. Proof that we are doing much better. The objection to overuse of antibiotics is correct, and how to curtail its use among livestock and fowl is a challenge. But, comparing that fact to the relatively rare dangers of vaccines is a far stretch.
10
In elementary school, I vividly remember reading about Helen Keller, who as an infant lost her sight and hearing after an attack of scarlet fever, and who later became a powerful advocate for people with disabilities (and for socialism, women's suffrage, birth control, labor rights, and peace).
Too bad the Texas State Board of Education tried to remove her from the third-grade history curriculum last year.
12
@Robert Pagen - Snark aside, you are right that there is no current vaccine against scarlet fever.
But Helen Keller was one of those people who are not only interested in issues that affect themselves. As an example, she crusaded for eye prophylaxis to prevent blindness in newborns, although gonorrhea was not the reason that she herself became blind.
We need more people like her in the world.
8
The first “anti-vaxxer” I ever met more than 20 years ago was a liberal friend of mine. After she had a child, she started a Waldorf-centered pre-school for him and other non-vaccinated children.
At one point, her son got whooping cough and went on a plane with it. They only realized after they had flown across the country. I stopped communicating with her because of that.
When he was five she suddenly left the state because her son had gotten into a Waldorf School in Colorado. She was fixated on him going there, so she dropped everything to move.
It’s interesting for me to now read that the schools are havens for anti-vaxxers — it puts pieces of the puzzle together for me about her life.
By the way, the last time I saw her, more than a decade ago, she said her son was on the autism spectrum (despite never having been vaccinated). So what she was worried about happened anyway.
20
@Miriam Sobel- the first antivaxxer i encountered was in 1983, a woman refused to vaccinate her 2 year old daughter stating that she heard that for every vaccination a child loses 1 year of their life, it upsets their immune system she said. No need to say anymore.
5
There were 2 million measles deaths annually, worldwide, in the days before vaccines. Anti-vaccine advocates would have you believe that measles is a minor illness. As a physician, I see patients who had polio before vaccines became available and now suffer from post polio syndrome in later life. The list goes on. Waldorf schools say that vaccines should be up to parents. That may be the case, but then the unvaccinated children should not be allowed to go to school or other public places. The anti-vaccine parents are putting their misguided beliefs ahead of the rest of the community. State governments could mitigate the problem by tying the school licenses to their vaccination policies. New York is on the verge of removing non-medical exemptions. Hopefully this will pass. There is a possibility that parents will find doctors who will write the exemptions without any medical rationale. My children are grown and have children of their own. They are worried about the potential harm to their babies from un-vaccinate children before they are old enough to have the MMR shot.
15
It is true these countercuturalists are wrong on vaccines. But on most other preventive health issues they are right and far ahead of mainstream medicine: Food systems, mental health, antibiotics, triclosan, glyphosate and cancer, transportation policy, nutrition,
It is not the disillusioned but the obvious corruption in mainstream medicine that has led to the crisis of faith.
7
The irony, of course, is that every single one of these parents were vaccinated by pediatricians according to established CDC pediatric guidelines when they were children.
13
@Robert
That’s right
Since the 80s,there is a strong global conspiracy involving pharmaceutical companies and doctors to save lives
9
@Robert Pagen
No. At least 7 different vaccines repeated several times. This is easily researched:
CDC website https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6004a9.htm
And I received more than 3 in the 1960's, as did many millions of my peers. My father's older sister contracted polio at age 5 in 1924, it left her with paralyzed legs. My parents didn't question the necessity of vaccinating their children.
6
“The Green Meadow Waldorf School ... is grounded in an educational philosophy that frowns upon rote learning.”
Perhaps it is better to get empirical evidence before making such an important decision. Perhaps parents should wait until one of their children catches a contagious disease and dies before vaccinating their other children.
I attended the Rudolf Steiner School in NYC from k-12 in the 60's-70's, long before the anti-vaxing became "popular". I have VIVID memories of being vaccinated because it was required by law to attend school. If these people want to put their kids at risk that's their right I suppose. But to expose others' to preventable disease is just unconscionable. While Waldorf has always been a bit "fringy", it was an amazing education. Everyone learned to read music by 3rd grade. We were taught 2 foreign languages through middle school. I can still tell you what 9x7 is without having to think twice. We read and wrote poetry. And learned to knit. And built furniture. And pressed apples into the most delicious, golden juice. We became doctors, lawyers, professors, writers, filmmakers, engineers, healthcare professionals, entrepreneurs. As others have noted, it's unfair to characterize an entire community for the irresponsible behavior of a few members.
15
@agmay
Sadly, it is more than just a few, it is many, and that is the issue.
4
@agmay- you might read comments from those who also attended Waldorf schools. Most disagree with your assessment. You must also realize that most doctors lawyers and tech geniuses didn't attend any Waldorf school but instead attened public schools.
6
As a parent of children who attend a Waldorf school, I can say from firsthand experience that these schools are saturated in self-entitlement, narcissism, and rooted firmly in the Middle Ages. There is zero oversight, zero trained medical staff (at least at the Vermont school my kids attend), and a deliberate effort to disguise the incorporation of religious teachings and “anthroposophy” - the pseudoscience created by the school’s founder Rudolf Steiner who wrote extensively on anti-Semitic and racist ideologies which permeate his teachings. Any Waldorf faculty member will conveniently ignore those writings though. I had a child held back largely on the grounds that the school determined her “inner gyroscope” was not settled. Guess I never learned about that in biology - or maybe I just skipped wizard class.
That Waldorf communities are a safe haven for anti-vaccination supporters is a logical pairing - they both have a severe detachment from reality. The school rigidly enforces a policy of hand shaking between students and teachers at arrival and dismissal - despite the obvious risks it poses in so far as the transmission of germs and illnesses - vaccinated or not.
These places have as much in common with cults as schools - perhaps more so.
26
“‘We’re taught to live in the present,’ said Melissa, whose children do not attend Green Meadow. ‘Right now, my children are healthy.’”
Namaste, Melissa. Your understanding of Buddhism could use some work, but it does serve as a perfect example of how feeble the arguments are which seek to justify a religious exemption to issues concerning public health.
If people want to believe that there is an omnipotent God, then why would they ever act in a manner which implicitly suggests the impotence of said deity?
As far as education is concerned, and setting aside the etymological ambiguity of “anthroposophy”:
“The Waldorf method encourages children to learn at their own pace — textbooks are banned until the sixth grade...Dance and arts are emphasized as tools to learn, for example, the alphabet.”
How does that even pass for education? It’s like ‘Hooked on Phonics’, if every subject were phonics. This is how you create philosophical zombies, not an educated populace. But I assume that’s the point.
7
@ubique
Exactly
2
"Like other parents who were interviewed for this article, she asked that she be identified only by her first name because she said she was worried about her safety after speaking out." Hey. I'm worried about MY safety after listening to her speak out. If these people refuse to be named, they should be required to wear bells around their necks so we know they're coming.
25
In Austin, just to the south, the highest rate of unvaccinated kids is at Zilker Elementary. The neighborhood is filled with young professionals in high paying jobs. Exactly the same type of people who would send their kids to a Waldorf school.
How can so many intelligent people arrive at such outright stupid, life threatening conclusions.
I was one of the first people in the world to get the Salk vaccine during testing. Vaccines are one of the miracles of the modern world.
21
Look into Rudolf Steiner and his nutty beliefs a bit more. Sure everyone can get behind children being more free and loose but many of his thoughts are cultish to an extreme, especially when it comes to medicine and spirits (terrific recent article in The New Yorker). Bunch of mumbo-jumbo garbage that far too many parents have swallowed whole. Immunize your kids. You might save them from being hospitalized (where they will not be so free and loose), or you might well save the baby down the block. I once went to a doctor who followed Steiner's notions and when I looked into it fully I laughed and also thought what a waste of time and money, what a joke, no science behind Steiner's beliefs, just beliefs, call it a religion, call it a cult, but don't for a minute call it medicine (or being natural). Public health is crucial. Western medicine can be lifesaving. Vaccines are absolutely amazing, I thank all the doctors and scientists behind each shot my kid gets and hope a few more soon come down the pipes (a Lyme vaccine, please!).
If Steiner was against seatbelts (they inhibit the spirits you know) would you not put them on?
Think for yourselves!
21
It appears that the anti-vaxxers have stumbled upon a world-wide conspiracy involving pharmaceutical companies ,doctors and public health officials saving lives through vaccines.
Gosh.
Who knew?
5
“that I gave him time to build the God-given immune system in a way that it is designed to be built.”
I didn’t know god gave us our immune system. God is a swell guy, but instead of giving us an immune system, why did he create microbial pathogens that make people sick? If there were no disease causing organisms, we wouldn’t need immune systems in the first place.
“Her Buddhist views prevented her from vaccinating her children unless they became very sick.”
The reason to vaccinate children (and most people) is so they don’t become very sick. By the time they are very sick, it is too late to vaccinate them. Vaccination works by inducing an immune response. The next time the person is exposed to the pathogen, their immune system already has cells that recognize the pathogenic organism, which then initiates a full immune response, destroying the pathogenic invaders before they can cause symptomatic disease.
“We’re taught to live in the present,” said Melissa, whose children do not attend Green Meadow. “Right now, my children are healthy.”
If your children have just eaten and are full, why are you shopping for food right now?
22
I'd like to know how many of these antivax parents would not vaccinate their kid if he/she were bitten by a rabid animal or get a deep cut while playing in the park? One did, in Oregon No tetanus shots ever and the kid nearly died. Cost almost $400,000 to save their kid. Afterward the parents still refused a tetanus shot, though the doctors did give him one during the life saving treatment. Welcome to the loony world of superstions, rumor , gossip and chatrooms. Jail and fine the parents and make them pay for any medical procedures to save their kid's life for failure to vaccinate.
24
It's starting to look like old-fashioned racism and white privilege. I am white, and I am privileged, so I don't have to get in line with the masses and get a shot.
10
"... [N]ot to put extra obstacles in their (her children's souls) way." Obstacles like, oh, I don't know, sight? Life? Not all the wackoes are on the right.
8
ALL drugs have side effects. All, including antibiotics, aspirin(Willow Bark for you back to the Earthers), not just vaccines. I forgot, even so-called "Natural" herbal remedies have side effects even poisonous effects. Steiner and the Anthroposophists were off the wall. just read their racist-based philosophical teachings. I lived and worked amongst them back in the early 1990's in upstate New York. . I should know. Educated people can be superstitious. i wonder how these people got their advance degrees. Read the Times companion piece today regarding California's legislation and the stars testifying against it.
10
"I did my own research..." Okay, right.
23
Babies and persons with immune disorders should not be put in danger by parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated. There should be no religious or "personal choice" exceptions. If you want to disregard science, then home-school your child. You should not be allowed to let your child risk infecting other children at school. People are contagious even before showing symptoms. I had measles as a child and it was a horrible experience.
10
My child attended a Waldorf for one year. It was like a cult to me. They didn't like that my child knew about television or video games as these are prohibited at the school. As a result there was always tension and I had to pull my child out of the school. I don't think the school itself would push anti-vaccine ideas but the people who are drawn to the school might subscribe to these ideas. In any event it is sad because the risks of not having the vaccine outweigh the risks of taking the vaccine.
17
The mechanisms by which viruses work and how vaccinations prevent them is not magic or a mystery. I suffered through measles and chickenpox, but I got one of the earliest mumps vaccine--my older brothers suffered through that. My eldest brother was in the first group of polio immunizations and the rest of us had them too. I assume we had pertussis vaccine, but I'm still susceptible to Rubella. Our dad had measles, mumps, chicken pox, pertussis, and polio. He didn't have scarlet fever. My son had "Fifth".
As an adult I have had pneumonia and flu influenza shots, and recently had to get a tetanus booster. Bart Starr, the great QB who just passed, saw his brother die in 3 days from Tetanus.
Not immunizing normally healthy children is, in my opinion, a form of child abuse equivalent to telling them to go play in traffic. We already have limits on what a parent's rights are, but there is no "right" to endanger your, and your neighbor's children.
9
Being educated (college degrees) does not automatically confer common sense, reason, or even critical thinking skills. I’ve known highly intelligent, highly educated, scientists who believe in conspiracy theories, ghosts, energy/aura, or any number of off the wall concepts. Even Linus Pauling, 2 x Nobel prize winner, lost some public confidence in his critical thinking when he went off the rails promoting mega vitamin dosing, in particular vitamin c, as a cure for all sorts of things including cancer, despite evidence to the contrary.
11
The people who don't vaccinate their kids did not arrive at their decision through the application of reason. Therefore, they will not decide to vaccinate their decision through any argument based on reason, logic or facts.
We should stop trying to reason with the anti-vaxxers in the same way that a parent shouldn't try to "reason" with their children. Let's pass strict laws and regulations mandating that children be vaccinated, and let's be done with this inane discussion.
13
As Spock (and Kirk) said “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.” If you think that not vaccinating your child ensures that she will avoid becoming alienated from Nature, others, and most importantly, the self, that is not logical.
7
I am old enough to remember a childhood before
vaccinations.
My cousin was a year old when she contracted
Measles.
She suffered damage to her brain and her vision.
She never went to school, and she lives with her
oldest brother.
For your children's sake and all the other children they
might affect - get them vaccinated.
23
And yet, most if not all, of the parents of these students were vaccinated by their parents (the students' grandparents). I want to know what harm and ill has come to these parents by their childhood vaccinations that they are now refuse to vaccinate their own children and are putting their children at very real harm.
10
Both my kids went to Green Meadow and graduated from Stanford University and are now MDs.
Waldorf was great for them. I support mandatory vaccination and oppose religious exemptions.
This article in a caricature of Waldorf and Green Meadow parents and teachers. Sure some are on the whacky end of the spectrum, but sometimes people do good things for the wrong reasons. Keep one thing in mind -- there have been no measles cases at any Waldorf school. That suggests responsible behavior by the schools and the parents.
8
@Benjamin - Actually, the lack of measles cases suggests good luck.
3
This deeply saddens me. I am a Waldorf school alumna; while this article makes the educational method sound like artsy fartsy nonsense, I can attest to the magnificent foundation of critical thinking skills and creativity I received through my time in Waldorf schools, which I have often credited for my career success. That being said, the anti vaccine movement among Waldorf families is real and pervasive, and I fear these ignorant parents and the real harm their views can / will cause will rightfully discredit Waldorf's educational reputation. I attended Waldorf schools K through high school during the late 80s through early 2000 and experienced this anti vaxxer insanity, including from my own family. My parents were and still are vaccine deniers; I received some but far from all of my necessary vaccines as a child (I am in the process of acquiring all my necessary shots now, as I prepare to get pregnant with my own children.) The problem is facts don't get through to fundamentalists - and that's what the anti vaccine movement is; fundamentalism - and unfortunately neither do the consequences. I almost died of complications of pertussis as an eight year old; I'll never forget the terror of stopping breathing until I passed out. When I finally got well after missing 3 months of school and having to repeat the grade, my mom still credits my recovery to a homeopathic remedy and not that pertussis generally runs its course after 3 months. It's infuriating. Wish I knew what to do
29
I can’t drive my car 150 mph on the highway because it endangers other people in addition to myself. How is not vaccinating yourself and your children any different? You are putting other people’s lives at risk, period.
And EVERYTHING in life is a risk. Weighing risk vs benefit and determining the odds of outcomes should be part of an informed adult’s thinking. No one’s health should be jeopardized because of a few disproven scam studies.
15
This is just one result of a culture of scientific illiteracy that seemingly pervades our nation. (Exhibit A: A president who says that wind turbines cause cancer. Exhibit B: States that teach creationism as "science.") The future looks bleak indeed.
10
The likelihood of success to those who try to illuminate anti-vaxxers to the dangers of measles can be best reflected in my expansion of the old axiom “you can lead a horse to water, stick it’s snout in the water, pinch it’s nostril’s shut, but you still can’t make it drink”.
Some anti-vaxxer’s will change their position once blindness and other devastating sequellae of infection with measles affects someone near and dear. But not all.
Some anti-vaxxer’s will change their position once a polio outbreak occurs with it’s devastating consequences. But not all.
8
At least we know where to avoid sending children.
26
“We need to have our thinking hats on, every single day, every single hour,” said Elizabeth, the mother of a 4-year-old at Green Meadow,”
So Elizabeth, when are you going put your thinking hat on?
27
This should come as a surprise to no one.
5
Objectivity please! The problem regarding vaccination of children is created entirely by state laws that provide loopholes for religious beliefs in a nation that was founded as secular.
This article misplaces blame on schools, whether progressive, conservative, religious or public, that comply with inherently faulty laws. Mr. Day, the Rockland County Executive, is slandering well-meaning parents as "mentally nebulous" for filing a lawsuit. Instead, he should be attacking the “religious exemption” laws that are the problem.
Yes, Waldorf education was founded by a scientist, Rudolf Steiner, PhD., who lived 100 years ago and therefore had some beliefs that were suited to the age in which he lived. Did any educators 100 years ago have 21st century belief systems? Will diversity of beliefs ever end?
Instead of a constructive article about the scientific proof of the efficacy of vaccinations and salient warnings about the Russian propaganda that has furthered misinformation in America about vaccinations, the reporter chooses to attack well-meaning parents, excellent schools, and apparently anyone who has a child needing an alternative learning system.
Is it the goal of this journalist to undermine progressive education in America or to encourage public safety through better laws? Considering her superficial and largely inaccurate criticism of Waldorf education, we shall have to remove Sesame Street from the airwaves for using music and art to teach the alphabet.
10
@Patty I think it is laudable if the goal is to undermine privileged education.
@Patty ... I don't believe a word you say
2
Steiner was a philosopher, not a scientist. And yes, there were educators at the time better adaptable to today: John Dewey comes immediately to mind.
I’d add that one hallmark of people who try to browbeat rather than discuss is the PhD bit. In this example, you’re doing what’s called, “reasoning from authority,” which means that you’re invoking a supposed Superior, rather than making a serious case.
Problem is, Steiner himself was heavily into the woo-woo, and so are today’s Anthroposophists. They’re the prob, not Boris and Natasha.
2
Make the anti-vax parents liable to civil suits when their kid infects someone.
19
What a way to take the most extreme anti vaccination views and make them seem like it is the norm in Waldorf schools. My 3 children have all attended a Waldorf school and they have all been vaccinated on schedule and I trust the science behind vaccines. That is the norm at our Waldorf school. There are families who unfortunately do not vaccinate, and that is their decision, but the school does not encourage the practice. Using the word "banned" for textbooks is also ridiculous. The use of cell phones are appropriately discouraged for young children, but plenty of parents believe otherwise and are not jailed or reported to child protective services for the use of them. Visit your local Waldorf school if you have one in your city, they are vibrant places with families from all different walks of life, and I promise you that they are not filled ignorant, cultish families.
15
@b
I don’t have a problem with Waldorf curriculum
I have a problem with rosemary baths for diphtheria
11
@b- i beg to differ. just read Steiner's books. Most Waldorf parents believe in his phiopsophy. It is a cult. No doubt. I lived and worked on a farm in upstate New York, and in Oregon. I believed much of his "teachings" too. The utter nonsense and anti-science taught is mind blowing, right up there with right wing Christians and fantatical Muslims. Just because you find it unpalatable to be shown the mirror, the truth is the truth. Healing takes place when one admits that there is a problem.
7
I find parents who keep their children out of our public schools to be selfish, narcissistic, and wrong. They have made the decision, essentially, to elevate their children and suppress others. What lesson does the child learn, when he or she learns he is special and doesn't have to go to school with all the minority children? Even if he or she is taught humanism and decency, the example of exclusion and privilege had been set by his or her parents.
12
This movement has nothing to do with left or right. It's about willfull ignorance. Period.
13
@RL It is about *leftist* willful ignorance. Do you also think climate change denial, creationism and Holocaust denial have nothing to do with the right? There are certain areas in science (especially biology) where the left is just as anti-science as the right is in other areas. The problem is that science denial has been so strongly associated with the conservatives by the media, that many are now in denial about leftist science denial.
3
Once again, children are but pawns in a world of poorly informed adults. If it were not for the work of Salk and Sabin, how many children would be crippled for a lifetime? I recall the long lines for their vaccines.
13
@JRCPIT- it's the arrogance of these supposedly highly educated adults that is the problem. How do you fight and change the minds of rich, arrogant people?
5
There is nothing progressive about rejecting the incontrovertible findings of science. It’s sheer hokum to think you know better than people with long years of scientific training because you read something online.
Refusing vaccinations over feelings is child abuse.
14
"Smallpox could be avoided by being mentally prepared to confront it."
Very progressive. Tell that to the thousands of American Indians who died from it, not having immunities to the disease. The whole idea of a vaccine is to give you the immunity without giving you the disease.
19
@dave beemon- my thougts exactly, excellent post. I just love the comment made by a parent about "build theGod given ummune system in away that is designed to be built". Lady, tell that to the immune compromised children and adults. There are thousands of them. So much for her theory and she says she is highly educated.
11
Just because one is highly educated, doesn’t mean they have common sense. I
3
The New York Times continues to treat this complex subject in terms of black and white. Where is the research that might shed light on which vaccines are essential and invaluable, which may be justifiable, and which likely do more harm than good? Those who take exception to the "party line" that all vaccines are de facto good and beneficial are dismissed by the Times as being ignorant, benighted, dangerous and/or kooky. I am disappointed never to have seen an article that takes a hard, objective look at the history, science and ramifications of this issue.
6
@Catherine Parry. more harm than good?. Maybe for those that are allergic to the ingredients in some vaccines, which number maybe 1 in 10,000. Other than that and the occasional blunder made by the companies developing new vaccines, Vaccines are safe and effective.
6
@Catherine Parry This is a completely ludicrous position.
Reputable, peer reviewed research about vaccines is everywhere.
The fact is that the possibility of having an adverse reaction to a vaccine (which is in fact a real thing unlike the silly autism lie) is far smaller than the possibility of dying of something like measles.
110,000 people died worldwide of the measles in 2017. Nearly all of them could've been saved by vaccination.
9
@Catherine Perry
You are right in that we should look at history and science
If you do,you will find that millions of children have died from what are now vaccine-preventable diseases.
You are on the right track,just keep going
9
I had a conversation with a 7 th grader at one Waldorf school recently about climate change and its impact on the environment... I couldn’t believe what I heard , the child is clearly have not learned anything about it. The child was clueless. Now I know that because kids at this school learn at their own pace? Well if it’s the child is not interest on a subject then it’s for not knowing anything about it?USA USA USA!!
9
The parent who talked about "not interfering with the spiritual journey" of her children should contemplate the untold millions of children sent on a spiritual journey straight to the afterlife by the epidemic diseases she refuses to vaccinate for.
22
Suffering and death, if approached mindfully, can be a spiritual journey as well. All things speak the dharma...
I am sick of the Times' biased reporting on vaccines. You consider yourself progressive but having worked in the healthcare communications field, your medical reporting is conventional boarding on irresponsible. Your progressivism gets left behind as well as your objectivity. I vaccinated my children but if you are woefully wrong to not present a more balanced picture of what is known and unknown about the risks and benefits of vaccines. I know someone who died 18 months ago from a known vaccine-related side effect. The condescending tone of this article only serves to alienate those who are considering vaccination of their children. Give data and not opinions. I think you will be surprised if you do a deep dive that "safe" does not mean without risk. And oddly enough, when people are treated with dignity and full disclosure vaccination rates might increase.
12
Goes to prove that "a little knowledge can be dangerous." Waldorf parents surely have just a little knowledge entitling them to be "authorities." A criticism of this article is that it refers to Waldorf as being "progressive." If ever an inappropriate use of a word, that's it.
7
The capacity for self-delusion is truly staggering. We need to get a better grip on why people are falling into such silly nonsense, and more than likely have a few more congressional words with Mark Zuckerberg, who unwittingly seems to be getting rather intimately tangled up in our nation's downfall.
7
Religious exemption? Is that the same religion that Trump & GOP use to help them understand the science behind CLIMATE CRISIS?
7
How do the belief that "eating papaya helps to combat measles" or the fear that vaccines "impede the journey of a child's soul" in ANY way constitute a "fervor on the left"? These are the tenets of a pampered niche culture that the article in NO way connects with ANY sane definition of "the left", be it liberal, democratic socialist or communist. So please, enough with "the left" here.
9
I find the content of the article regarding the need for vaccinating to be extremely relevant, but I am struggling with your focus on Waldorf schools in general. You mention the number of Waldorf schools in North America, but focused specifically on a school in NY with parents who have anti-vacs beliefs. You insinuate that Waldorf education has a philosophy to not vaccinate children. That has not been my experience. I sent my children to a Waldorf School. My oldest daughter went through 8th grade before moving to a public high school. In my experience there was an emphasis on children playing outside learning from their environment and creating play rather than play being created for them. As for the textbooks, text books are not banned , they have a different approach. My daughter created her textbooks as she was learning and they are beautiful! As the teacher lectured and wrote things on the chalkboard my daughter put that information into her own textbook in a way that she was able to best understand, and all kids were encouraged to add artwork on the content they were learning. My daughter graduated 3rd in her class of 200, and she received a large scholarship to attend an art college this Fall. I firmly believe her success is rooted in her experience at a Waldorf school. Please do not disparage Waldorf education as a means to make your point. For what it's worth, I vaccinate my kids and I strongly believe in the importance of it. This article disappoints me.
17
I am a mother of two Waldorf-schooled children, who attended from preschool through high school in New Hampshire. I have a science background and did a lot of research into vaccines when our children were small. We opted for a conservative approach: we had our children immunized over a longer period of time than is typically suggested and made sure the vaccines were free of the mercury preservative thimerosol. By the time our children were teenagers, they were 100% vaccinated.
Many parents do not realize that there are choices in how we vaccinate and the medical profession could do much to allay fears by offering these choices openly. Also, there should be complete transparency about the ingredients of all the vaccines as well as where they are manufactured. Thimerosol, the mercury preservative, is still used in some batches of vaccines when they are stored in quantities intended for vaccinating large groups of children. Mercury is a potent neurotoxin which accumulates both in the ecosystem and in our bodies and is passed from the mother to her child. It is very hard to detect in the body as it deposits in organs and brain tissue. It is hypothesized by some researchers that some children who have had severe reactions to vaccines are actually reacting to the mercury and may have already had mercury exposure that makes them more vulnerable.
Textbooks banned? The children create their own every year - beautifully decorated and a source of great pride.
7
First, thimerosol isn’t used in children’s vaccines exceot for some rare inactivated-cirus flu vaccines, and hasn’t been since 2002. Period, end of story, full stop.
Second, the type of mercury in thimerosol is rapidly metabolized, and harmless. You are deliberately confusing it with a type that is far too prevalent in our environment, due to industry and soaps and sich, over the last century and a half. It is easily detectable.
Third, thimerosol is used in children’s vaccines overseas, IF refrigeration isn’t widely available. Fhere is no, repeat no, evidence that this is harmful.
Fourth, CDC et al—and the Vaccine Information Sheet you get when you go to get your shots—tell you exactly what’s in there.
Fifth. Name these “researchers.” If the name, “Mercola,” comes up, though, I ain’t listening.
5
Thimerosal is an organic mercury compound (ie part of a complex mainly built of carbon atoms) and is not harmful. It is also largely absent now. Inorganic mercury is a neurotoxin and is present in coal ash among other things. This coal ash has drifted over the Appalachians and into the streams of Eastern North Carolina for years such that levels in fish including those eaten by people are dangerously high. That’s something real that anti-Vaxxers should worry about.
3
@Robert
Please see: Journal of Toxicity Vol 2012, Article 37678
My great-grandmother died during great flu pandemic in 1918 - she was 34 and pregnant. She left five motherless children behind. My grandmother contracted polio, was in an iron lung for a year and walked with a
limp for the rest of her life. My younger sister contracted chickenpox when she was five (5) - I vividly remember my parents rushing her to the hospital when lesions in her throat caused it to swell up and close and the pox on the bottom of her feet made it impossible to walk. It is almost criminal that anyone should suffer through any of these preventable illnesses in the 21st century.
27
Trump's grandfather Friedrich was also a victim of this flu pandemic.
I grew up in Santa Cruz, CA and know from hippy-dippy. I can completely believe that people who are attracted to Waldorf education are much less likely to vaccinate. However, I'm saddened to see the Waldorf curriculum itself maligned in the process (at least in these comments), as I've always known it to be pretty engaging and age-appropriate. The people I've known who went to Waldorf schools as children tended to be achievers and kind people to boot.
6
I believe in vaccines, but I was vaccinated in an era and country where I did not have to worry about officials putting corporations over people and being complicit in the tainting of a whole town's water supply (see front page article on Flint water crisis prosecutions).
Also, what a leap this article makes in talking about measles and smallpox and then giving as evidence that the Waldorf schools have a had a chickenpox and cough outbreak. So did my local public middle school. It's not that uncommon. But my larger point is that please stop the fear mongering on both sides.
If big pharma was more transparent and our politicians less corrupt, people might trust medicine and institutional research more.
3
@DC Whooping cough is not just "cough." It's severe, long-lasting and can interfere with breathing.
3
My son attended a Waldorf preschool. It was wonderful! But the director of the school did offer to coach parents on getting vaccine exemptions for their kids. My son is 100% vaccinated, and he might have been the only one.
As you might guess, the families at this school were very well off. Shocking they weren't very smart about protecting their children.
11
It’s relatively easy for these parents to take a bold stand against measles vaccination, but would they be so bold about smallpox, if it still existed? In fact, I think they definitely would not want their children to get smallpox, and therefore the kids would be vaccinated. So, their stance on the issue is situational, and phony. They’ve been gulled by bad information on the internet, just like many Trump supporters have been gulled. Ironically, these Waldorf parents would likely be among the first to call on Trumpers to try to get better information sources, but they’re oblivious to their own blindness.
7
My mother had polio at age 15, just a year before vaccination became available. She had the luck that only her legs were affected, so she spent her time in the hospital reading to a young boy in an "iron lung" -- who died shortly after.
Parents these days seem to think that it's not necessary to vaccinate children because they've forgotten what previous generations went through. Smallpox? Polio? Many adults fail to recognise that these terrible diseases were/are eradicated due to vaccines. What's next -- exposing their children to Ebola because it will "strengthen their child's immune system"?
11
These conversations always puzzle me. IF vaccinating children protects them from getting measles, or any other disease for which vaccines are given, what difference does it make that others DO NOT get vaccinated? It would seem the people who would get measles are those whose parents have determined their children need not be vaccinated. If they get sick, so what? Who cares?.. unless, of course, they require medical care for which the rest of us would bear a financial burden. We could solve that simply by legislating that folks who don't immunize their children are financially liable for costs associated with their care.
IF on the other hand vaccines don't protect children exposed to measles, why are we vaccinating them in the first place? Or do vaccines merely reduce the chance a child will be infected? I haven't read anything about that. I do know that I got measles, chicken pox and mumps as a child and somehow survived them all... so the desperation regarding this issue seems strange to me. Of course, much about modern parenting strikes me as a bit over the top.
Can someone help me here? Where IS the urgency around this? We can't protect children from life. Let's focus on what is really traumatic, and use a bit of common sense about all the rest.
@CAG. because not everyone can be vaccinated. Infants, those with comprised immune systems. Everyone is part of society and everyone is responsible for keeping society healthy. It’s not just keeping your child measles free.
12
So while they offer great protections, they do not protect 100 percent. So 10 kids that are unvaccinated have the chance to spread it to themselves and also get those that are vaccinated sick, or worse -those that can’t get vaccinated just yet. So a mother picking her 4 year old up from school who also has a 9 month old in her arms (a perfectly believable situation) is a recipe for disaster for that 9 month old who hasn’t been completely vaccinated yet.
These people in my honest opinion, whether from privilege or narcissism, do not believe that their actions can’t harm love ones or others. I hope they don’t have to face true suffering from their ignorance.
3
@CAG
Please read about "herd immunity". There are many individuals who can't get vaccinated, such as babies under six months of age and those who are immunocompromised, and they depend on the rest of the population being immunized so there is no one who can get the disease and infect them.
1
The key is preventable deaths and injuries to what are called wild diseases, scourges which have plagued humans before effective and generally safe treatments or preventatives have been developed.
Preventable diseases. Diseases that kill or maim or affect children for the rest of their lives.
And put other children at risk. I'm happy that people respect bees and trees and our natural world (I really am) but I place the value of sentient people and decades of misery to be avoided over that of other of nature's creatures.
3
Since these are relatively comfortable people who have the luxury of travel, what will they do if measles is labeled as endemic in the US and they must present proof of vaccination if you travel to a foreign country?
8
It really isn't about the educational level of the parents or the progressive, non conformist curriculum of the Waldorf school, it is that the school provides the milieu for unconventional group think and, in turn, validation and support of anti-vaxers reasoning. The original, intelligent thinking that these parents believe they exercise is, in reality, just joining a rogue group that puts themselves and others at risk.
2
The author associates these anti-vaccine views with "the left", but it's not at all clear how this association is being made. None of the quotes from the parents have any clear left/right political bent.
Sure, maybe Waldorf parents tend to identify as being more to the left on the political spectrum than the general population, but they also deviate from the norm in many other ways. They're certainly more wealthy than the general population as well, but that doesn't merit the claim that there's a notable "anti-vaccine fervor amongst the wealthy". There are few principles in reporting more basic than that correlation does not equal causation, and this piece sets that principle aside in order to get clicks.
2
Progressivism in a nutshell...common sense and pointing out the obvious is considered hate speech. One thing this article leaves out is the hoards of fellow progressives who don’t speak up or question the misinformation around them for fear of not seeming as woke as their neighbor.
1
Not enough bad things can happen to a parent who chooses not to vaccinate their child in my humble opinion. They're not only gambling with the health of their children- they are gambling with the health of others with immature or compromised immune systems as well. I don't wish anything bad on their children- but I hope karma catches up to them.
4
@JF
I trust you say the same thing about everyone who smokes, right? How about the folks who have a drink after work and climb into their car? How about the person who eats too many donuts and is overweight? Second hand smoke, driving while under the influence, burdening the health care system with lifestyle problems? So many ways our decisions can impact on those around us. It seems you've drawn a line. Care to draw a few more for us, or does the hysteria of this moment take all your attention?
1
I have never understood this. The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. Waldorf schools have a beautiful, effective approach to learning and tend to attract progressive parents. I would be willing to bet that most of these parents are supportive of efforts to address climate change because they believe the science. I also bet that these same parents, without hesitation, administer prescribed antibiotics when their children are ill, again, because the science is solid. To believe A and B, but not C, even though scientific method is the basis for all, is irrational; to do so at the risk of your child's life is insane. This mindset also requires believing that all of the MDs, GPs, and pediatricians you have ever known, the ones your parents and grandparents have known, these doctors who devote their entire lives to saving the lives of others, are all conspirators. Meanwhile, the discredited studies by discredited authors, found on the internet, are valid. Irrational. This is life and death.
3
I hope the parents of vaccinated kids pull them out of this school on health grounds. It would probably be safer for the kids, and whoever runs the place will think twice about allowing unvaccinated kids to attend.
4
Yes, these parents are ignorant and dangerous to society and their own children. And by choosing hubris and certainty over their childrens' welfare, by allowing their prideful righteousness to supersede the possibility that they might be wrong, they are also absolutely horrible parents. And it is likely that this destructive personality trait will impact their children negatively in other ways as well.
12
To the anti-vac groups, you may reap what you sow
10
@Cliff R No, it's that WE reap what they sow. We are all in in together, especially with air travel being so common.
4
Insurance companies have the power to end this ignorant fad. They should increase manifold the premiums of (or decline to insure) people who refuse vaccinations.
18
@Chris Rockett
And, of course, they should raise premiums on people who smoke, drink and whose weight is above 25 on the Body Mass Index... right? All they have to do to reduce premiums is top smoking, drinking and eating too much. Makes good sense to me.
Of course few people want to legislate moderation in anything except perhaps tax rates, though many believe even moderation is too generous...
1
Some employers already tack on a surcharge to their employees’ employer sponsored health plans if that person is a smoker and/or is considered obese.
1
Should there be an Ebola outbreak in the US, antivaxxer parents would be lining up their children to get the vaccine and since they put other people's immune-compromised children at risk, I think they should be sent to the back of the line.
7
As the population increases, anti-vaxxers increase the chance of a pandemic.
5
Just to be clear, let's take "mentally nebulous" to mean utterly moronic. These people with no training don't question aerodynamics at 30,000 feet, but for some reason consider themselves experts in immunology and infectious disease. I hope their children don't suffer the consequences of their bad decisions, but I have to wonder what other stupid decisions they make and what other scams they fall for.
20
The internet has done a tremendous job in allowing people to wallow in ignorance and pretend that they are somehow smarter than the medical profession.
Anything can kill you but to run into a fog of make believe mumble jumble from phony people on the internet puts everyone at risk. The internet is not your friend when it comes to the measles. Go a hospital read a medical journal and stop being simple minded. Steve Jobs had a curable cancer but no he knew better than the doctors, made up his own health care program, well he is as dead as he can be from his own stupidity and arrogance. He chose to be stupid your kids don't have a choice so you must be smart for them
Everyone wants to live well, we all love our kids so the choices are easy.
Any parent who does not vaccinate there child should be legally charged with child endangerment For ever parent who refuses to be part of a community of intelligent people they can be isolated in their homes while there children are under quarantine.
Enough with this craziness I don't care who you are or who you think you are. Get busy and go to the doctor, and be happy we have a vaccination.
Parents be warned, be a parent vs a sucker for the internet.
6
Mainstream media articles that are incredibly biased and misrepresent others is precisely what gives Waldorf and other "alternative" schools of thought traction. The way the author characterizes Rufolf Steiner's views is utterly ridiculous. I have a number of misgivings about his schools (which I know well from living in the Vienna area for 15 years). But the description here is so one-sided and contrived that even MY intelligence gets insulted.
7
I lost a brother to a bad DPT vaccine. He had a bad reaction to a DPT booster, given before he was 2. He died in 1960 at 4, labeled “retarded” though born healthy, because of the damage from the vaccine and high fever.
My parents vaccinated my other brother and me. Not getting vaccinated was never discussed.
I remain grateful to my parents, both gone now, that they stood by science, even as the loss of my brother left a hole in our hearts.
Anti-vaxxers put us all at risk, not just their children, but all children.
16
These people are exactly the problem with the world. They ignore all good research because it doesn't suit their spiritual nonesense.
3
As far as I can tell, this writer examined 1 Waldorf school (and makes reference to a “spate” of disease out breaks at 2 others) and interviewed a few parents.
Few questions:
The writer is conflating Waldorf schools with the anti-vaccination movement. Is a perceived or assumed “ethos” a factual basis for an NYT article?
Did the writer contact the North American Waldorf schools association for comment on vaccination policy, or on how schools establish their individual policies?
How/do Waldorf schools adapt Steiner’s century-old teachings to align with contemporary life?
What percentage of children at Waldorf schools are unvaccinated?
Do the views of the handful of parents interviewed at that one school reflect those of most Waldorf parents?
Why/are books “banned” until 6th grade? is this practice based on the value of being read to, or a prioritized sequence of age-appropriate learning? I.e, did the writer do any research on Waldorf pedagogy or simply resort to lazy references to things like forest school and low-hanging fruit (papayas.)
Why do so many high-achieving/mainstream people choose Waldorf school for their kids? For the high tuition? fringe beliefs of some parents? risk of kids contracting serious, preventable diseases? media derision? Or could it be something else.
Many more ?s arose as I read this piece in the “paper of record.”
17
@printer I am in agreement. It feels like the writer took sensationalizing pieces and didn't provide a full picture of the waldorf community. They gave the megaphone to the wrong people.
1
180 of 300 students are not vaccinated. Thats A STORY! Who, what, where, when, why. Job well done.
6
While demographically kin to many (stereotype) NYT readers, I’ve ended up living in a beautiful, rural area of Mississippi. Admittedly, I sometimes bewail being around so many (stereotype) bumpkins, and think it might be nice to once again dwell amongst the more sophisticated, educated folks back East. This article, I’m happy to say, has vaccinated me against that error.
4
I think it’s time to stop calling this attitude “progressive”.
6
Can’t wait for polio to make a comeback!
3
@Lorraine Anne Davis
It has.
1
Darwinian evolution processes seem to be hard at work at Waldorf schools.
5
I've spent a lifetime in leftist politics, and have worked for 17 years for socialist political parties, and am a student of American and Canadian politics. Yet despite all of my experience I can honestly say this is not a "left" I have ever encountered. I guess having grown up around truck drivers placed me in the wrong demographic?
5
They frown upon rote learning? Clearly, they do not believe in fact-based learning and critical thinking. It is a crime that an organization like the Waldorf Schools is allowed to teach anyone, no less children.
Generally, story subjects who are litigants should not be granted anonymity in a story.
Further, the unidentified subjects should be required to present more than nebulous fears of something they think might happen to allowed to speak not for attribution.
Finally, it's ironic that people who objectively are putting the health of others at serious risk because they believe in nonsense should be granted anonymity based on unfounded fears.
This story is a serious backsliding in the NY Times commitment to limit such sourcing.
When my mother had measles, she was so sick she missed so many days of school she had to repeat a year. Measles also left her partially deaf.
I remember chicken pox was the worst. I was covered with pox from head to toe. The itching was constant but I was told not to scratch less I leave scars. Being covered in calamine lotion only helped a little. I do still have some scars from that.
The beach at a nearby lake was closed in August to prevent the spread of polio. I knew people who had it and suffered from the effects their entire lives.
11
One part of me thinks, well these parents will learn the hard way. The kinder side of me thinks it is sad that an innocent child has to die for people to take notice.
1
The article mentions anthroposophy and quotes Steiner. Please know that anthroposophy guides the curriculum and the teachers, but is not actively taught to the children or parents.
Here is part of a statement from the Goetheneum (anthroposophical website)regarding vaccinations: "“Anthroposophic Medicine fully appreciates the contribution of vaccines to global health,” write the Medical Section at the Goetheanum, Switzerland, and the International Federation of Anthroposophic Medical Associations in a joint statement. Together with health education, hygiene and adequate nutrition, vaccinations have helped “save countless lives”. Anthroposophic Medicine supports vaccinations to prevent life-threatening diseases, not least against the background of specific health challenges, such as climate, poverty, refugee movements, mass housing, malnutrition and others.
6
"He taught that diseases were influenced by “astral bodies” and that humans can also breathe through their skin. While he did not completely reject the vaccines against smallpox and diphtheria used in his day, he said rosemary baths were better for diphtheria and that smallpox could be avoided by being mentally prepared to confront it."
In all honesty, this is a collection of some of the dumbest things I've ever heard. People use this man's philosophy to educate their children?!?
9
It is very unfortunate that these schools are called "progressive" given that they indulge in so much pseudoscience and religiously informed practices. It is an insult to us progressives to be lumped together with these people.
5
@Pat O'Hern While you are at it, how about being lumped together with the progressives (far-left) who oppose interracial couples, calling them "racist", and who openly support racial and gender segregation on college campuses? They all identify themselves as progressives.
@natan
When those people identify themselves as progressives, they are either disingenuous or flat-out ignorant. I don't think of them as far left, because the left is too intelligent to include them.
"Time to build the God-given immune system in a way that it is designed to be built.” Tell that to the millions throughout human history who lost their lives to diseases that can now be prevented by vaccination. It is horrible that wealthy people who have received college degrees are so ignorant of history and its clear lessons.
5
We simply need to have an epidemic in which thousands die. That is the only way these people will even begin their soul's journey to conceive of the possibility that they are wrong.
1
Prosecute the parents of unvaccinated children who are proven walking disease vectors in schools and crowds. Make them pay the medical bills of anyone infected. Open them up to civil suits for negligence and wrongful death.
The irresponsibility is manifest, and based on some kind of perverted sense of social superiority — my child would "never" get sick.
2
One of the favorite straw man arguments proposed is that we need a large scale study of unvaccinated versus vaccinated children. The effectiveness of vaccinations and the true risk of disease without them makes it impossible for any ethical researchers to conduct such a study.
5
Years ago there was a classic paper in the British Medical Journal in response to the still-prevailing argument that the only valid research was large, randomized control trials. With classic British humor, the authors of the paper reported on a “randomized” study comparing survival after jumping out of an airplane with and without a parachute. Perhaps those clamoring for such a study about vaccine effectiveness can volunteer for the parachute research and do us all a favor. All vaccines carry some risk, like Guillain-Barré. There’s no way to predict or avoid these risks at the present time, but the benefits so far outweigh the risks that it should be beyond discussion.
2
Thank you for publishing this article. Your article helps to paint a bigger picture of the challenges and concerns that Rockland County parents face with respect to the growing number of unvaccinated children.
The public schools in my town make no exception with repect to vaccination, and I am grateful for that. But the fact that we're facing a public heath crisis as a result of the deliberate choices of a few people is mind-boggling.
4
Thank you for this article. I’ve been wondering what continues to drive the anti-vaxxer movement in the face of the measles outbreak. Very informative...and at times humorous.
I love this: “There’s a lot of research now that seems to indicate a big negative side to the vaccinations and that not having the natural wild measles also deprives you of some health benefits.”
Organic, wild caught measles sound delicious.
8
Right up there with locally sourced pertussis and responsibly harvested polio.
1
I really who decided that this school was "progressive" or a "shout-out" to the left. In my opinion, not being vaccinated is plain irresponsible and not smart. Can we just leave it at that and not compound the labels?
2
I imagine it's been several years (if not decades) since the NYT ran an article in which parents who beat their children were portrayed as decent, well-meaning citizens who merely had a different philosopy of child-rearing.
In essence that is the thrust of this piece--decent, well-meaning citizens who merely have a different philosophy of child rearing: in this instance refusing to give their kids medicines that have been shown to save millions & millions of lives.
Sorry. These parents are all the same: They believe children are their property, and what they do with, or to, their property is nobody's business. The parents' ownership rights (disguised as "beliefs") trump their children's rights to health, or life.
When anti-vaccine parent tells her hostage child, I withhold medicine for your good, she is telling the same truth as the abusive parent tells her hostage child, I beat you for your own good.
3
Viruses have no politics or religion. Viruses don’t work for “Big Pharma” or the CIA. Viruses, if they thought, would call us food. There is a case to be made that viruses are not really alive but can be thought of a self replication poison. Even if the most fevrent critics of vaccination would find the results of an epidemic of preventable disease much worse. It would be unfair to blame the internet for our shortcomings in the understanding of science because every voice seems to be evenly weighted. I was a kid back before polio was preventable with the Salk vaccine. When one of my friends in the solidly middle class neighborhood showed symptoms the municipal swimming pools were emptied. Birthday parties were put on hold for months and parents were terrified. Literally terrified. That was the world before vaccines. I don’t want to revisit those times and nobody in their right minds would want to either
9
I grew up in a Waldorf community and went to the school mentioned in this article for many years. It is a community with many viewpoints and while many people do have an antivax mindset there are many others who do not. I am glad this article states as such, and mentions that there are people in the community who accept vaccines as well.
Don't generalize a community beliefs - I see this happening as well with the Orthodox Jewish community and it has resulted in higher amounts of anti-Semitism. It makes me sad.
7
This is a problem that continues to get worse, on both the far-right and the far-left, and it's not going to be resolved by everyone holding hands and singing Kumbaya. There is no amount of "education" or reasoning that will ever get these parents to admit that they are wrong about vaccines. Even their own kids getting sick or dying will likely not convince them - cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing. Ultimately, the state will have to choose between forcing people to vaccinate their kids or accepting thousands (or more) of unnecessary deaths every year.
1
I’m a doctor, who doesn’t get a penny from pharmaceuticals, and I strongly encourage everyone to vaccinate their kids. I even acknowledge that drug companies have engaged in unethical activities and I don’t trust them, but I trust the science and studies that vigorously tested these vaccines.
By the way, you can check how much money does each doctor get from pharmaceuticals. It’s public information. So stop claiming we get paid to have this opening. A.Wakefield, the criminal who started this fuss, is the one who benefited financially from it.
8
"There is absolutely no convincing these people ..."
I have not read articles about the reaction of someone who is against vaccinations, and then had a serious infection in the family that could have been prevented. Usually, this can have a convincing effect.
The unvaccinated kid who contracted tetanus in Oregon, incurring hospital bills of nearly $1 million...he was extraordinarily sick, in horrendous pain, almost died. Did the parents vaccinate after? Nope.
6
“Melissa, another Rockland County parent involved in the litigation, said her Buddhist views prevented her from vaccinating her children unless they became very sick.”
My wife, born in southeast Asia, is a devout Buddhist and a physician. There is no Buddhist prohibition she has ever mentioned against vaccines, and our children are up to date on all vaccines including their annual flu shots. Nor have I ever heard of any prohibition against vaccines from any of the many Buddhist monks I have met through her family.
It seems to me that some these irresponsible parents are bending religious exemptions in a way that distorts or completely misrepresents religious beliefs.
12
So odd that these parents themselves were vaccinated as
young children. They themselves
haven’t been damaged by vaccines and they didn’t get sick from
the awful childhood diseases I endured. As a child I was thrilled
to get the first polio vaccine and
to be innoculated against smallpox.
If there were a vaccine that keeps you from getting fat, these parents
and their kids would be first in line.
(C’mon Big Pharma!)
3
100 years ago, my great-grandmother in Louisiana died a horrible death from small pox. My great uncle had measles at age 4. The high fever affected his brain and he grew up "simple minded" and was homeless as an adult. My grandmother nearly died of diphtheria. Who are these crazy rich parents who think the laws of nature don't apply to them? People need to mine their family history and they will quickly realize why vaccinations are one of the greatest life-saving developments of the past century.
8
In the days before the American Revolution, wealthy parents sent their sons to stay with a doctor who gave them a bit of smallpox so they would have immunity. Maybe that's what these parents should do. Send their children to 'measles camp' after which they would have immunity and be unable to transmit the virus. Of course, they would be under close medical supervision in the process. That would be the 'natural' way. It would also be a way to test their theories without putting other susceptible children at risk. They would have to be certified that their children had immunity as the exception to being vaccinated. If the parents are unwilling to test their beliefs, religious or not, public health takes priority over their individual opinions.
@BJW - What the doctors were doing in the American Revolution was variolation, the forerunner of vaccination. The concept of vaccines is actually hundreds of years old.
2
@PM
Yes, first documented in China in the 15th Century and the practice spread to the Middle East. Europe and the American colonies became aware of the practice in the early 1700s. Of course, there were plenty of inoculation skeptics back then as well.
1
The most important statement in this report is in the last sentence.
“Parents can have these kind of opinions because they haven’t seen the devastation that these diseases can cause.”
People are afraid of what they know, not what they don't know. Such is the way the human mind works, and it is hard to compensate for.
3
I wonder if the subjects of this story offered the correspondent a healthy tree bark based snack? Maybe some concoction made of kale and various grass clippings? I only slightly jest.
7
Sounds more like a cult than a school. Anyone who thinks you can control smallpox by being "mentally prepared" for it, is out of their ever-loving mind!! I do not consider these people very educated. They may be smart in some things, but common sense is not one of them!
36
measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox are perhaps not the big issue when there is obviously a raging epidemic of willful ignorance and stupidity sweeping the nation. the underlying suspicion and distrust of institutions is, of course, directly the result of a decades-long campaign of disinformation brought to you by the usual suspects. victims eat their own children.
5
"She said she started doing “skeptical information gathering” after reading online that children could die from vaccines."
Well, if it she read it "online," then it must be true.
31
Whatever way you read the Times it doesn’t become less credible. That wouldn’t make sense, would it? But your question makes you less credible, no?
2
No amount of money or woo woo beliefs will bring back a dead kid.
Guess the moneyed can live with that. I don't care if their precious kids die, because honestly neither do their parents. I resent the Pro Pandemic crowd dragging us into their faulty belief system.
8
Vaccines were a huge achievement of a human progress. Surely, a "progressive" school should not be regressing.
13
I had measles at 6 months old the same time as my mum. The doctor was very concerned for us both. This was 1958 in England. Our next door neighbour was deaf from having had measles as a child in the 1920’s. In some ways I’m quite sickly and I wonder whether having had measles has damaged me rather than made me stronger. I’m glad my daughter has had the MMR vaccine. She’s healthy and has had other child illnesses like chicken pox, hand, foot and mouth and the various bugs that go around classrooms. Would we want to go back to smallpox, diphtheria, whooping cough, typhoid, polio? This new age nonsense is depressing.
19
My kids were in Waldorf school and vaccinated. I would say the majority of kids in the school were unvaccinated. The justifications for not vaccinating were astounding. These were highly educated people putting their kids at risk.
Although I have to say the curriculum and education were top notch. This article does a poor job of describing the beautiful aspects of a Waldorf education.
27
Agreed that Waldorf education has much to recommend it. Our vaccinated (of course!) daughters thrived in their Waldorf community.
This reporter brings an obvious bias and writes as if to mock the foundation of Waldorf education and anyone who chooses this curriculum over public education. Reporter is as poorly informed or worse than the Waldorf community members she so blithely dismisses. Vaccines are necessary and safe. Waldorf education has merit.
7
I defy any one of these parents to actually have a child experience one of the "oh they'll just get a little sick" diseases. My son was in the last cohort who got chicken pox before the vaccine was available. He suffered terribly for a week, true heartbreaking suffering - and he has scars on his face as the result. Why would anyone risk exposing their child to such misery?
22
“We’re taught to live in the present,” said Melissa, whose children do not attend Green Meadow. “Right now, my children are healthy.”
The teaching of Buddha is that everything changes and sickness, disease, old age are inevitable.
This is willful ignorance beyond all belief.
28
Although I appreciate the media reporting on issues of anti-vaccination, I do not appreciate targeting one audience or community to boost journalistic agendas. America was founded on spiritual and educational freedoms, and unfortunately the tone and obvious strategy behind articles such as this, enforce polarization on topics such as vaccinations. I would appreciate seeing better journalistic approaches where there is a respect for community choices based on belief and an attempt to educate readers as opposed to polarizing them. I don't see the journalist targeting Christian Scientists or other orthodox communities regarding the issue of vaccinations. In many ways, this article seems more like an attack on Waldorf education than anything to really do with the anti-vaccination issue. (Which is a real shame, because Steiner or Waldorf education does not take a position on vaccinations.) Writing articles like this will not make anti-vaccination parents more inclined to vaccinate. This kind of media just makes people more polarized. Shame on the NYT for falling for such low level journalism. This could have been a wonderful opportunity to share ideas on both sides of the argument and inform readers of the dangers of not vaccinating. Attacking communities will only create more dissent. I hope to see better journalism from the NYT on this topic in the future.
10
@SMEB. It’s wrong to attack faith, but attacking rich parents who are ignorant is fair game
1
So doctors get paid for their work? Mystifying.
"America was founded on spiritual and educational freedoms." Really? Neither spirituality nor education are mentioned in our founding documents.
"anti-vaccine fervour on the left"? Isn't it a bit of a stretch to associate anti-vaxxers with a political ideology? What is it about being anti-science that equates with the left any more than the right in these times?
4
It would have to be a vast conspiracy indeed to get such participation in a Byzantine world like the American health care system.
Meanwhile, I can’t even get my family to replace the toilet paper when it runs out.
1
Bill DiBlasio and Andrew Cuomo are making a BIG mistake by focusing on Orthodox Jewish schools.
All schools must reach 100% vaccination rates or risk losing their licenses, funding, and accreditation.
Are more Orthodox Jewish students skirting best health practices? It seems yes. Are more Waldorf students skirting best health practices? It seems yes.
But viruses don't discriminate based on religion. We need ALL schools to serve as the gate through which only properly vaccinated students can pass. This will help keep those students safe, as well as the immuno-compromised, the too-young-to-be-vaccinated, the elderly, and me.
We need to remove ALL exemptions immediately.
12
I understand that Waldorf schools are considered progressive, but nothing in this article or the parents’ opinions require identifying them as “on the left”. The conflation of upper middle class privilege and anti-science views with the left is wrong. That caricature is an insult to many hardworking, responsible progressive people. It only means that many people, regardless of their political views are susceptible to lazy and shallow thought.
6
I am a Waldorf teacher who has known families who vaccinate and those who don’t and those who space doses so their child’s reaction to each medication is detectable. Parents using each of these approaches were from all political persuasions. The claim that those who refuse vaccines tend to be liberal does not fit with my observations.
2
Much of the far-left is essentially secular religion. They tend to be radically anti-science: they hate GMOs, deny evolution above the neck, hate anything to do with nuclear energy, deny any biological differences between sexes, they believe that all Western science is corrupted by "whiteness", toxic masculinity and colonialism, and of course, they are anti-vaxxers. Most media is either ignoring the leftist anti-science positions or are fully supportive of them. Science has been so politicized that it is just assumed that only the right can be against it.
8
@natan
That must be quite far left! The lefties I know are pretty radically pro-empirical-knowledge, standing-on-the-shoulders-of-giants kind of progressives.
2
@Robert I've got over 1000 citations to my name, including in Nature. What's *your* h-index? I doubt it's very high given that you're not even able to formulate an argument and resort to spewing insults instead.
2
I am a pediatrician and a parent, and have personally seen morbidity and mortality due to a lack of vaccination. Not vaccinating your child greatly increases your child's risk of dying due to meningitis, sepsis, pneumonia and acute respiratory failure due to a number of viral and bacterial causes. I want to specifically address the father in the article who believes that big Pharma is paying doctors to "keep quiet" about the risks of vaccines--firstly, I don't have to "keep quiet" about serious side effects of vaccines, as I have never seen any. However, I have seen children die, have tracheostomies placed, have permanent brain damage and require intubation/ventilation due to vaccine-preventable diseases. Secondly, I graduated from medical school 14 years ago and still owe $100,000 in loans--if big Pharma is paying someone, they are not paying me.
74
I know this is not a popular opinion, however, as I read more and more commentary from those who decide not to vaccinate their children, I feel that raging and trying to educate them is in vain and we should just allow them to reap whatever comes their way. I, myself, chose to go get adult boosters (prompted by a trip to a country that has risk factors) and have encouraged my adult children, one of which works as part of the university system (yes, with YOUR children :-) ) to get them as well.
6
The topic of vaccination aside, the tone of this article towards Waldorf educational philosophy is disappointing. A Waldorf education can be an excellent one, preparing the student for higher education and adult life at least as well as any more conventional school. Some of Steiner’s ideas, stated over a century ago, seem dated today. It is his overall philosophy that inspires contemporary Waldorf education, not strict adherence to details articulated in a different culture and era.
14
I spent decades working as an environmental engineer for a government agency, and took calls daily from people concerned about environmental risks. A significant proportion of calls came from people with grave concerns over things that posed very rare, obscure, and highly unlikely risks. Many of these people were intelligent and well-educated, but had also picked up just enough information from dubious internet sources to scare themselves. I see this with the distorted and selective focus of the anti-vaccination movement today: the obscure possibility that some child, somewhere, sometime might have been injured by, or had an adverse reaction to, a vaccination, swamps out the ability to be rational about the exponentially higher risk of potentially grave consequences that childhood diseases can have on unprotected children. Compounding this with a conspiracy mentality makes for the perfect storm.
5
Let’s not forget that the anti-vaccination movement is part of the Russian cyberattack on our Democracy.
But I will also add something about the mindset of these parents, who are often “alternative” thinkers. Very few people trust pharmaceutical companies, the FDA, insurance companies, hospitals or medical care these days. Where are the ingredients sourced? China. Who is ensuring quality? No one. Who is profiting? Billionaire CEO and shareholders.
When we start seeking by real oversight and quality control of healthcare, when we have universal healthcare Medicare for all, when healthcare is needed longer for-profit, when we stop outsourcing everything... then people will start trusting again.
3
@Misplaced Modifier
Nonsense. The quality of vaccines administered in the US has never been shown to be compromised in any clinical or independent study.
This is willful sowing of confusion.
5
That should be about five minutes before you guys actually offer any substantive details at all, and stop giving these loud speeches that always chant the same guff.
'Wacky' comes in all political stripes, all levels of society, and all belief systems. What we do to support the well being of all is what's critical. We need to vaccinate and we need vote Trump and his enablers out in 2020. It is our societal responsibility.
5
Elizabeth, who said she has a master’s degree in public health policy, called for comparative studies between vaccinated and unvaccinated children over a prolonged period of time.
Someone with a masters degree in public health should be well aware of the longitudinal studies of vaccines or be able to easily find them in the medical literature. Unless they have forgotten what they learned in school.
30
One hardly knows what to say to people whose profound and willful ignorance is on ample display here. Their statements highlight the fact that being smart and having been educated are not the same thing as having any sense.
Data, facts and information make no difference to such people because they are not interested in them. They have an attitude that does not allow challenge. Their rejection of the modern world is what they have in common with the ultra-Orthodox and others who both refuse vaccination and deny its benefits.
Unfortunately, they endanger both their children and others. They should be held financially accountable for their irresponsible behavior, just like someone who ignores stop signs, speeds in school zones or drives recklessly.
3
I wish I could be an anti-vaxxer, because life would be so simple that way. Vaccines are simply bad for you -- end of story. Never mind all the research out there, I'll believe with all my heart what my instincts tell me and ignore all the conventional wisdom that tries to persuade me to vaccinate myself and my children. Such a simple life.
I also wish I could be a pro-vaxxer, for the same reason -- simplicity. The science is settled. There's no link between MMR and autism. The CDC and the vaccine industry know what they are doing. The research all confirms that vaccines are safe and effective. Oh, the blissful simplicity of it all!
Regrettable, neither camp reflects who I am. Unfortunately, I have the curse of an inquiring mind, and when I read I observe data both supporting and refuting the notion that vaccines are safe and effective. I've spoken with vaccine researchers, vaccinologists, and read their papers. They are scientists, not woo-woo New-Age types. They are shocked by the lack of science that informs the discussions around vaccination. Instead, we see a theme of vilification, shaming, and self-righteous indignation informing the debate. So, I must live in the purgatory of the undecided, as my restless inquiring mind will continue to seek evidence, and eschew blanket condemnations or faith-based adherence to scientifically unsupportable positions. All too many are finding themselves in this no-vaxxers land of doubt, borne of scientific rectitude.
6
So there are good people on both sides, eh? Actually, there are no reputable vaccinologists who “question”—by which you mean, “repeat the same old nonsenses—safety and efficacy of vaccines on the whole. Instead, they try to figure out better vaccines, and better ways of explaining them to people so that they’ll just go get their shots.
https://academic.oup.com/jpids/article/6/1/3/2957334
There are also no reputable writers who spend much time patting themselves on the back for their acumen, or slabbing words like “eschew,” onto simple notions, or confusing “doubt,” with, “groundless distrust.”
It’s simple, okay? The antivaxx types, for various reasons, are taking counsel of their fears, not their brains. And in so doing, they’re not only incapable of coming up with rational assessments of risks and benefits, they’re actively endangering us all.
5
Everyone knows that the Danes and the crooked doctors in the UK and France receive vast sums of money from the drug companies to promote vaccines. I've read about this on the internet. And there has never been any science done to prove that vaccinations are necessary. And they cause not only autism but also are respsonsible for my son not getting into Harvard. There.
13
A school that does not require all its children to be vaccinated can't be called "progressive." In fact, they are the opposite.
12
This is disheartening to read there is a great Waldorf school near us that we would otherwise send our child to. The school has a squishy policy on vaccinations. It adheres to Michigan law requiring vaccinations but which also allows exemptions for practically any reason that can be proffered.
The same school has a strict no-peanuts policy, and rightly so--probably because they have witnessed the life-threatening effects of severe nut allergies. Somehow the risk of someone bringing preventable diseases like whooping cough and measles into the school is not as important. I have a feeling that after a few outbreaks, attitudes will begin to shift. It's too bad many will get sick or even die for that to happen.
10
@Woodward
But the peanuts are a risk only to the allergic child -- a private risk -- while measles threatens lots of other kids in the school -- in other words, a public health threat.
So why is the first more of a concern to the school? Could it be because that's where the lawsuits are at present?
Well I lived near this exact school my whole life. I know for a fact the community has an increased ultra orthodox presence, these Waldorf kids are at extremely high risk. I wish law supersedes parents thoughts on safety. Spread of Measles can and harm of children can easily be avoided with vaccination.
4
NYT be careful of how you portray this.
Educating children to think without technology, to navigate the out of doors and to challenge and develop their creativity (among other activities) has got exactly nothing to do with preventing dangerous infectious diseases through vaccination.
Dismissive stereotyping reinforces walls around communities.
A little curiosity about what works well for these families might advance the public health conversation.
6
@AB
What works well for these families is maintaining their non-touchable status in the media. It is no different than the gloved treatment the Orthodox Jewish communities demand. Can't criticize their anti-vaccine stance either, even though they're largely responsible for the pertussis outbreak.
1
Don’t these parents know their own family histories? How many of them lost a relative in the Spanish flu epidemic? How many of their grandmothers lost their newborns to complications of mom’s measles? How many relatives contracted polio and were confined to wheel chairs or worse, iron lungs?
Teach your children your family stories. Oh, and take a walk in the old part of your church cemetery. The headstones are heartbreaking.
And if that doesn’t move them, can we remove them to a special reservation somewhere in the back of beyond?
6
Oh geez...I vaccinate my kids and am also Waldorf parent..it is very distressing to see that so many intelligent parents refuse basic science when it comes to children's health and safety. Take the good aspects of Waldorf education but leave the garbage behind: modern science and modern medicine vs. Rudolf Steiner's ideas on health? Choose science.
8
I am too old to have been vaccinated. I had "natural, wild" measles when I was about 9. One of my vivid memories is of being shut up in a dark room for 3 days, forbidden to read, because measles can blind you. I no longer recall how the darkness was supposed to help, but I remember vividly the fear of losing my sight.
Measles is not a joke. It can and does kill, and it can and does leave lasting disability in some people.
353
@MdeG
No question measles is a dangerous disease to be vaccinated against if possible. But the dark room/blindness business is an old wives tale for a disease for which the is no specific treatment. OF, M.D.
7
@MdeG. You were probably put in a darkened room because looking at light was extremely painful. This is one of my first memories. I couldn't have been more than 7. I'm almost 71 now.
23
@MdeG
I, too, am old enough to vividly remember having "natural, wild" measles as a child. Believe me, it was no joke. I had a high fever and hallucinations, and I was shut up in my room for weeks. Thankfully, I recovered. I haven't missed a vaccination (flu, pneumonia, shingles) since.
34
The author’s description of Waldorf schools is sensationalist and uninformed. This reads as a grudge piece and I’m disappointed to see the lack of objective reporting from the Times.
I am also a Waldorf parent and my children are vaccinated. There are plenty of us out here.
18
Good for the vaccinated.
What exactly did the story get wrong?
6
Why the qualifier “on the left”?
7
American ignorance, illiteracy and stupidity about the nature and methods of science is a persistently politically bipartisan gender aka color aka race aka ethnicity aka national origin aka sectarian socioeconomic historic majority affair.
2
“Right now, my children are healthy.” This woman seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of both Buddhism and vaccination. What a fool, and yet it is her children who she is putting at risk.
25
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” - Isaac Asimov
46
@lrubin Calling drug skepticism "anti-intellectualism" is a very hard sell in a country that advertises dangerous drugs every thirty seconds on TV.
We're growing our own new diseases in the USA by creating a drug-altered genome and colorful new drug interactions.
Ignorance is just plain ignorance wherever it occurs.
1
These are the same people who will go to church on Sunday and proclaim themselves as true Christians. When you need help, others care? Who will be there? And you could have prevented this devastation. What sad people.
2
"not having the natural wild measles also deprives you of some health benefits" - can we translate this to: "only free-range, organic, humanely raised measles will do for my kid, thank you very much"?
26
Unfortunate that the anti-vaccine parents can't see beyond the rose petaled present. Most of these Waldorf schooling families probably have boiler plate health insurance. Perhaps they're trying to show solidarity with the uninsured by warding off disease through "mindfulness."
These are the same people shopping at thrift stores parking a brand new SUV next to a neer-do-well's vintage sedan.
3
@Apple Jack
And use Jade eggs by Gwyneth Paltrow!
2
A few dead and permanently damaged kids will clear this anti-vaxxer infection right up. Sorry to be blunt about it, but people often don't learn from the example of others and instead must make their own mistakes.
9
@Richard Schumacher Do not apologize for calling an unfit parent "an unfit parent." WHEN (not if) it does happen, we can just use the standard school shooting response, "Hopes & prayers!"
Don’t be so sure. Believe me, these clowns’ll have an excuse.
The "religious freedom" exemption from having to obey the law has gotten out of hand. (I remember segregationists using scripture to "prove" that whites were superior to blacks.)
But let's grant a religious exemption, even if it's only a personal belief. That doesn't give the anti-vaxxers a legal right to endanger the lives of others in public schools.
2
What can go wrong with allowing progressive thought to be the central plan for all once free Americans?
1
And if you were a varicella virus, that would make sense.
1
This is not “progressive thought”. The anti-vax movement has fooled people of all political persuasions and apparently of every religion. It fits very neatly with suspicion of any sort.
1
These anti-vaccination parents sound like people who won't wear their seatbelt because they think it's safer to be "thrown clear" of a car wreck. They aren't convinced by statistics or any other empirical evidence, because their theory just feels more comfortable and comforting, and there's always an anecdote or fictional account that supports their position.
The trouble is, when these people's unvaccinated kids are "thrown clear" not only do they break their own necks, but they're likely to land on innocent bystanders.
30
It's disingenuous to imply that there's a line between Rudolph Steiner's medical theory and today's anti-vax movement. The early 20th century was full of "cures" that today we would call eccentric or downright dangerous, such as using mercury, radium water, etc. for treatment of various ailments.
Such characterizations detract from the real issue at hand, which is that vaccinations are important and the anti-vaccination crowd is contributing to public health crises.
6
Scuse me, but there are Schools that Steiner founded, the people in them SAY they’re inspired by his ideas, and some of his wackadoo notions certainly fit.
6
@Robert
Waldorf is an easy target because its pedagogy falls outside of the mainstream. My point is that Steiner's views need to be contextualized, and I think you would find a lot of respected people back then with medical views that we would consider abhorrent today.
Myself raised by an anti-vax Waldorf mom (and now fully vaccinated by my own choice), I can tell you that his medical views aren't part of the conversation in the circles where I grew up. In my case, my mom had been vehemently anti-vax long before entering the Waldorf world and long before social media existed.
Rather than pointing the finger at apparent "wackadoos," anyone who is sincerely interested in solving this public health crisis would do better to seek understanding and means of influence rather than resorting to othering and shame.
2
One of the memorable experiences of my life was to shake the hand and thank Dr. Jonas Salk for the Polio vaccine. His discovery saved millions around the world from this dreaded disease. I remember the worry of my mother when I went to school and I remember classmates being infected and dropping out of classes. America was great then....
30
There are many people who make this choice based on sound research. If we're a society that can understand how plastic is seeping into our bodies, or that sunscreen can be harmful to oceans or that a big powerul pharmaceutical company knowingly allowed vulnerable people to become addicted to opiods for profit, then why is there no room for questining vaccine efficacy and safety? This is what surprises me. Vaccines are not bad, but if we blindly accept without questioning, then we aren't doing our job. When I was a child, I recieved 5 vaccines. Today it's something like 72. There are 300 more in the pipeline. Is there not a little curiocity about the motivation? There may be many reasons why some people react to the ingregients in vaccines and others don't. It can't be one thing alone, but maybe vaccines are part of the equation? But anyone who makes that stand, or expresses concern is humiliated, turned upon, ousted and ridiculed. Why? Unfortunately when there are billions on the line, and we the people are unwilling to look around the curtains for fear of reprisal, it will be a while before the truth emerges. But emerge it will. It always does.
10
The safety and efficacy of vaccines has been ‘questioned,’ or better put -thoroughly and extensively investigated, by scientists and medical professionals around the world. Lucky for us, many of these scientists work for public good rather than big pharma and they overwhelmingly find vaccines safe and effective.
2
The concerns do not come out of thin air. The article did not mention the use of mercury as a preservative in vaccines. Sweden banned the whooping cough vaccine in the 80’s based on side effects including death of infants. The use of mercury is rare now, but each parent should check with pediatricians to make certain mercury is not being used. It is a bad idea.
We were told thalidomide, opiates, and antibiotics were all great advancements in medicine. We know now they were great advancements for industries like the Sackler family and greedy medical corporations.
Protecting your child the best one sees fit is a huge task in 2019 and parents deserve no derision in their attempts at doing so. Their concerns have a basis that the press has not yet mentioned - mercury.
10
@Lazlo Toth Americans are very big on buying quick fixes to complicated problems. That is why we sell pharmaceuticals on TV in 30 second ads.
2
Finally an area where people on the left and right in our country find common ground. This is rooted in the anti-intellectualism that is as American as apple pie (and why this issue transcends political views). The great book, "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" by Richard Hofstadter, should be required reading for all high school students. They will then not be surprised by relatively intelligent people taking positions and making choices that seem contrary to science and the informed views of people who spend years studying a subject. A fairly simple heath care decision becomes a jumbled mess of anti-establishment distrust and unfounded beliefs in the superiority of what's "natural."
9
and, for extra credit and to see what's going on in context, add The Paranoid Style in American Politics.
Many of the diseases for which we have vaccines today are diseases that were brought to the Americas by the Europeans. Measles, mumps, influenza, and smallpox were among the diseases that decimated the indigenous people who already lived here, but who had no previous exposure to them. Perhaps that lesson should be included in all school history lessons.
7
@Carol If only the "indigenous people" had had these vaccines then.
Perhaps the Waldorf folks should add a section to their curriculum about caring for your fellow humans and demonstrating good citizenship by contributing to the public health. Just wait until they learn that papayas are not an effective treatment for brain inflammation, hearing loss, sterility or any of the other complications of measles.
19
"Progressive", as in, from the word progress? Sorry, but no.
They need to be called regressive schools.
9
Trained as a microbiologist and immunologist, I can tell you that there is a lot of junk "science" out there on the internet, blogs, etc. I don't care if you are a mathematician, physicist, artist, etc. it does not make you an expert on the vagaries of immunization. Of course any vaccine can, in a small number of people, who overreact to a vaccine due to allergies, etc, result in loss of life. This is a risk that is taken by society as a whole to "protect the herd". So clearly antivaxxers do not care about society as a whole, but just their precious little one. And when that precious little one gets the disease and spreads the infection to those who are immunocompromised, resulting in severe illness or death, there are no consequences.
19
The author wrote:
"All three parents represent an anti-vaccine fervor on the left that is increasingly worrying health authorities. "
Anti-vax is not a "left" thing, it is a personal choice, and I would argue that it is more associated with libertarian political views than traditional right/left politics. So please don't put anti-vax in the Democratic camp.
11
“Parents can have these kind of opinions because they haven’t seen the devastation that these diseases can cause.” -- Professor Weitzman. This sums it all up, to my mind. Measles is not "real" to these people (and, dare I say, most of us) because it's not encountered regularly any more. My dad had the measles as a kid and almost died. Getting his children vaccinated was a no-brainer. I was born in 1961, had the "live" measles shot circa 1963 when it first came available and the MMR later in the early 1970s.
Once we have a massive outbreak -- Making Measles Real Again -- likely we'll see an upsurge in vaccinations. Sadly, there will be children who die.
17
I find it insulting that people can be so dismissive and disrespectful of science. Vaccines have played a significant role in advancing longevity. Stimulating antibody formation through vaccination is an elegant methodology that is safe and effective. Laypersons who pretend to know more about medicine than physicians is an act of foolishness and hubris that is dangerous.
16
My Mother’s God-given immune system survived polio in her first year. She has been a lifetime supporter of vaccines.
I am sure my grandmother would of liked to have had the choice to protect her daughter from polio.
8
"The Green Meadow Waldorf School...costs roughly $25,000 a year in tuition and is grounded in an educational philosophy that frowns upon rote learning."
- I too would frown upon rote learning if Daddy wrote a check to Harvard and got me in at the end of high school.
9
Why is it acceptable to demonize one whole group—the parents of Steiner pupils—but it is "discriminatory" and "anti-semitic" to dare to question the vaccination practises of certain Jewish communities?
7
Thanks. I hadn’t known that “demonize,” meant, “report accurately.”
1
“We’re taught to live in the present,” said Melissa, whose children do not attend Green Meadow. “Right now, my children are healthy.”
=====================
That's like not giving them lunch money after breakfast and before they leave for school because right now they're not hungry.
74
Just idiotic. Another attack on science in a time when people revel in it to their own demise. Who needs to worry about enemies from outside when we seem bound and determined to destroy ourselves.
22
When these adults need “modern medicine “ let’s say why? You believe for yourself when your life is in jeopardy but don’t care about our most at risk population? Sorry.
2
I almost never hear anyone discuss the actual issue at hand with these non-vaccinators. They see vaccinations as a public good, but believe that their children are too precious to risk some minuscule chance of complications. There is so much anti-vacation misinformation online that parents can easily start to believe the risk is much higher than it really is.
However they justify it, this behavior is the ultimate in selfishness. The answer to this is obviously to require vaccinations by law, but my own state (Governor Polis) refused to reduce the exemptions.
I’ve had complications from shots in the past (not vaccines), but I suck it up and get a flu vaccine every year. You don’t need to think deeply about this. You do it. It’s the same as driving down the road to the grocery store or getting on a plane. Total safety doesn’t exist and never has.
18
Waldorf schools in general educate in a counterculture and evidently want to live in one too.
6
It is sweet irony that some of the reddest states have the highest vaccination rates. Mississippi has the highest, WV is high too (only medical exemptions are allowed).
We have to disconnect vaccination from politics (we should really disconnect a lot from politics, as we have devolved into Team A vs Team B mindsets).
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-unhealthiest-state-in-america-has-the-best-vaccination-rate
8
I was sent to a "progressive" school for a couple of years, long ago. They are scandalous: indoctrinating children in anti-American beliefs and fomenting epidemics by spreading lies about immunizations.
7
I bet that, as a child, Elizabeth was vaccinated.
5
Blinded by ignorance. I believe in alternative medical treatments. But neither am I so rigid in my beliefs I think in this world we can only utilize herbs and supplements. Others will get ill and die. Open your minds. Put your ego aside.
2
One of their so called progressive kids will die of diptheria, or tetanus and then they will vaccinate. Liberals and their so called science. They do know that diptheria kills in less than a day right? And dying of tetanus is agonizing?
8
@Brad L. Rosewater baths will protect them {sarcasm}
To all the anti-vaxxers out there:
None of you has the right to cause your children to get my children, or any other children, sick.
Period. Full stop.
16
These people have no compunction about doing something that is statistically very dangerous like getting into an automobile yet are freaked out about something that is statistically very safe like vaccines. Just goes to show how terrible human beings are at risk assessment.
13
“There is not a Waldorf position on vaccination,”
Perhaps there should be.
16
When I was a child in the 1940s, my mother and other mothers deliberately exposed their small children to children ill from these communicable childhood illnesses. Adults of the generation of my parents had vivid memories of children dying or being crippled by polio, measles, smallpox, scarlet fever, mumps, whooping cough, etc., and vivid, realistic fears of their own children contracting the illnesses. Do any of these Waldorf parents even know what an iron lung is? Do they refuse to have their children vaccinated against polio? My father died at 92. Not long before, I asked him what he thought was the greatest scientific or material advance during his lifetime. He thought for a moment and said, "Antibiotics."
13
Although I understand the frustration, fear, and anger that exists around the topic of vaccinations, what I find frustrating is the inaccurate description of Waldorf education. It is clear the parents quoted were carefully chosen and the description of the education was not based in fact. In reading the reactions, the writer succeeded in evoking negative feelings towards Waldorf schools in this “unbiased” NYT article. My children are fully vaccinated, I support the view that choosing not to vaccinate is a threat to public health, and I am also incredibly grateful that Waldorf education exists. An education that considers the adverse effects of excessive screen time in the education of young children, that knows and understands the power of story telling, movement, art, and music to develop well-rounded individuals, that values math and science but also human decency and respect for one another. Waldorf education certainly has textbooks! Have you ever stepped foot in a Waldorf school? The best example of what Waldorf education offers the world, and the reason it is the fastest growing private school movement in the world- celebrating 100 years this year- is because of its alumni. I only hope readers do their own research before characterizing an entire educational movement dedicated to trying to make the world a better place.
17
Thanks for your attempt in keeping minds open regarding this interesting approach to education. The writer clearly could not capture the depth with the limited words allowed in this article.
3
We have friends whose three children all went to a Waldorf school and all did just fine. But when we looked into the school for our child we decided that it had too many doctrinaire philosophical rules and weird practices for us, many of which seemed anti-scientific and irrational.
But the bottom line is that vaccination should not be about parental choice - the rights of society outweigh the rights of the individual. Only children who cannot be vaccinated because of a real medical risk should be allowed to avoid it. And we need to come down hard on docs who issue phony medical exemptions.
22
No major religion, including Buddhism, takes an anti-vaccination stance. The fact that a parent uses Buddhism as a religious justification for not vaccinating is an indictment of her understanding of both science and her self-professed religion, and puts the vulnerable at risk to boot.
19
@Mathew
You are correct,there is no major religion which figured out vaccines and passed an edict banning them
But,hey why let facts get in the way of the opinion of anti-vaxxers ?
3
Its important to understand, that at the start of the 20th century, the concept of "germs" and viruses were still in their infancy, and many doctors were skeptical of them as pathogens in the first place. Without "germ theory" of disease, there were a great many ideas about what caused diseases, including 'bad air', and the ideas put out by Rudolf Steiner were as mainstream as many others. I am a Waldorf Parent (and also a traditional public school teacher), and I understand both sides of the argument. Over the years, many ideas have been promoted 'for the public good' (such as Eugenics) and each needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis. Thankfully, in our Democracy, we have just such a system, to vet ideas across time, space and societal changes. My family has decided to vaccinate our children for all of the obvious reasons, but I do question the idea of forcibly injecting known pathogens into our children, especially in the absence of a major outbreak of a lethal disease. Measles is not the same thing as Ebola or Polio (in which large percentages of people actually die from). Measles is certainly a bad disease, but most won''t die from it. More people will die from the flu this year, even though we have vaccinations against it, and yet there is no public outcry for all people to be forcibly vaccinated for that disease.
1
Also the flu is typically implicated in mortality among the elderly or otherwise compromised people. You can decrease mortality dramatically by giving the vaccine to those who would become more ill and even die due to flu and its complications.
Measles can cause serious illness in otherwise healthy individuals.
We were so close to eliminating measles in the US. It’s so frustrating to see a resurgence of a preventable disease
5
You are NOT injecting “known pathogens”
Vaccines can be attenuated viruses (ie non pathogenic) or based on proteins found to stimulate an immune response (antigens) to the actual pathogens.
7
@Jaeger Clark -
It is the use of vaccines that has resulted in the “absence of a major outbreak”.
And who cares if “most” don’t die from measles. If it’s your kid who dies, or loses her hearing, you’ll care.
2
Anti-vaxx has become a prism of these parents' self image. They see themselves as wiser, hipper, more caring, more involved and more astute than the lesser cattle who vaccinate their children and themselves.
It is not about their children. It's about themselves. And like the die-hard Trump supporters they disdain, there is no amount of evidence, no science, no history, no law that will pierce their self-satisfied bubble of smug superiority.
The crucial matter is the effect of their stubborn denial of science on others. Herd immunity keeps the most vulnerable among us safe and these parents depend on it even as they dump contempt on the herd. They demand full access to all public spaces but refuse to consider the rights of other people to be safe in those same places.
It's past time to marry the choice with the responsibility.
Anti-vaxx should be treated like HIV. It should be a crime to knowingly put others at risk of infection. Those who can be vaccinated but choose not to be should be required to alert anyone with whom they come into contact of the possibility of contagion. They should not be permitted in close spaces like restaurants, movie theaters, playgrounds, public transit and, yes, schools. Insurers and the public should not be required to subsidize the medical bills of those who fall ill due to being unvaccinated by choice.
Anti-vaxxers want it all - freedom from all responsibility and access to all benefits.
No.
23
My children attend a public Waldorf (which we love, by the way) and I have been continually shocked by the level of unvaccinated children, even in California where the religious exemption was removed. These parents now go to a small handful of doctors who sign off on a medical exemption (apparently for a $1000 fee in cash). These parents are highly educated and truthfully, also lovely people. I am still trying to wrap my head around it.
9
"All three parents represent an anti-vaccine fervor on the left that is increasingly worrying health authorities."
What do the terms 'left' or 'right' have to do with describing anti-vaxxers that represent the fringe of society?
3
This offers a competitive advantage to such schools so they are unlikely to push back until required. There are some people that are so committed to their go-it-alone medical beliefs that they will see such schools as an important refuge from a world that attacks their values.
3
"Opposition to vaccines on the left is increasingly worrying the authorities." ?
I read the article carefully and especially tried to understand who these people are who are anti-vaccine. I didn't get the slightest impression that they could be said to be "on the left or "progressive." I think the summary is misleading or at least not supported by the article.
4
There should be no vacination exemptions other than for a legitimate medical reason. If they choose otherwise, they can live in isolated communities with no outside contact.
5
There should be large (as in thousands of dollars) fines imposed on parents who do not vaccinate their children, except when vaccines are medically contraindicated for the child. The fines should be accompanied by criminal charges - child abuse, public menacing. Children in the lower socio-economic classes often have higher vaccination rates than children from wealthy families. This is for two reasons - one, the children in wealthier families are cocooned by the larger, vaccinated population so these wealthy parents can live with the delusion that their kids' immune systems are better than those of poorer kids. In reality, wealth does not confer medical immunity. And two, wealthy parents feel entitled to damage society by spreading diseases simply because they are wealthy. Parents like these give "liberals" a bad name, they are in fact not liberal, they are narcissistic in the extreme.
5
If they'd like to live in walled-off, completely isolated communities out in the country, with their food and other supplies parachuted in, fine. But if they'd prefer to live amongst the rest of us who don't want to contract serious, sometimes deadly, diseases from the ignorant, they'll have to be vaccinated.
It shouldn't be optional. And I shouldn't need to say this.
5
Although the parents may be “progressive”, Waldorf schools really are not at all. They steep in very old fashioned notions, have a cult like religious approach, and are remarkably unscientific and unenlightened. They follow Rudolph Steiner to a T and the teachers and classes are not allowed to vary from his out of date dogma.
5
Waldorf schools are not on the left, of the left, or leftist. They are "progressive" in the same way that Silicon Valley venture capitalist are: that is, they are libertarian, rather than progressive in the way that the term is understood on the political left. Note that the article makes no attempt to substantiate the "left" or "progressive" moniker. The author should have read Steiner.
7
The level of a parents’ education and or corporate status does not seem to impact on the selfishness and lack of concern on how each one of us impacts the rest of society.
If you choose to use society’s resources then you bear responsibility in taking care of “all” rather than just yourself.
Or go live in total isolation somewhere and do not infect the weak , elderly, very young , ill and or immune compromised people.
Having access to education and evidence based knowledge is a waste for such naysayers.
3
My nephew went to a Waldorf school (this was 20, 30 years ago). He was the only one at the Seder who could not read from the text when it came his turn. He was a teenager at the time. Who, still, wastes their money on Waldorf schools?
4
@Chip My daughter is in second grade at a Waldorf School and reads 2-3 books PER WEEK. She is well rounded, socially smart, and prefers being outside to watching TV. You will never see her at a restaurant with a stoned look on her face, drooling in front of an iPad. Who, still, wastes their money at a traditional school?
3
People who don’t have $25 grand a year lying idly around the house?
3
@vs
My 4 yr old daughter also reads several grade-school level books per week on her own, has minimal screen time and prefers playing outside. Those preferences are fostered by standards we set at home, not from the school she will be attending next year, which will be the local public school
1
Having grown up in an environment where these "community" diseases were prevalent and deadly, I have always supported and been keenly appreciative of vaccinations. But when I see these supposedly highly-educated citizens opposed to vaccinations, I can only consider them every bit as foolish as those who embrace religious cultism. That's a shame.
2
Solution: government insurers unite.
Mandate vaccine, increase insurance premiums for persons that don’t take them, make unvaccinated persons who transmit disease to other accountable for the cost of the second victim. Treat is like drunk driving. Simple. Let’s see if an insurance premium hike of $500 doesn’t change behavior
7
I was a Waldorf parent.
I am also the grandchild of a man who lost two of his older siblings to diseases that are now prevented by vaccines. His mother arrived at Ellis Island with her 4 daughters, met her husband there, and had a happy reunion that resulted in my grandfather being born about 9 months later. Two of his sisters had died by the time he was born.
That loss stayed with our family and it something I will never forget. Yes, you can "build up" your strength and your immune system by eating well and living a healthy lifestyle. But there are viruses that attack healthy and young people - swine flu from 2013-14 was one, and we are all vulnerable to these illnesses.
What a horrifyingly ignorant position of luxury it is to think that you are immune from something as pitiless as a virus.
473
@Tallulah: You might mention the flu pandemic of 1917, that mainly killed young adults. But you can't fight the anti-vaxxers' combination of folly and self-righteousness with reason and evidence.
50
@Tallulah
In the 20th century alone, smallpox is estimated to have killed over 300,000,000 people. The swine flu epidemic of 1918 killed an estimated 20,000,000 to 50,000,000 people. Polio, diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), measles and many other diseases that vaccines have almost eliminated are major potential killers and cripplers of children and adults alike.
The anti-vaccination movement is populated by people who are both irresponsible and complete fools.
47
@Tallulah
Thank you for your story. Both my parents lost young siblings to epidemic diseases, and one of my uncles was rendered sterile by mumps. The families were devastated; my 95-year-old mother is still under the shadow it cast across her life.
I can't imagine how these people can be suspicious of vaccines, but somehow imagine that epidemic viruses are benign.
26
I couldn't form a clear picture from this article of how Waldorf schools incubate or foster religious or other non-rational vaccine skepticism.
On the other hand, I usually have a hard time finding the alleged denialism in cases that involve parents' rationally deciding from evidence that a certain vaccine needs further study into its risks.
I'm becoming more inclined to believe that inappropriate politicization of science accounts for the creation of falsely-dichotomous choices between Team A and Team B.
3
Here my suggestion how to handle irrational anti-vaxxers endangering all of us, especially the children: Pass a law that requires those parents to have proof of liability insurance that covers the associated costs of causing or perpetuating such outbreaks, as well as compensation for pain, suffering and health consequences of those who contract measles, mumps and other illnesses that they and their unvaccinated children had a role in spreading. Basically, if somebody uses an exception based on "religious belief" or similar, hold them responsible for the possible damages, which can include lasting disability and even death. Religious exemptions can and should not extend to shedding responsibility for the consequences of their actions and inaction.
12
Where I live, it seems like the Waldorf parents and kids are...everywhere. I have a number of close friends who are Waldorf parents, and a common denominator among them is that they are some of the smartest people I know. But with that intelligence comes hubris--they truly seem to believe that they are smarter than everyone else, and they often make decisions accordingly. The science of this debate aside, sometimes you have to do things for the greater good of our society, and vaccines are an example of this. This does not seem to be a core belief of the Waldorf parents I know--they have chosen to pull their kids out of the public school system as well, because they think they can do better.
28
Many children flourish in unstructured educational settings. However, parents have a societal obligation to vaccinate their children because pregnant women, infants, and immune compromised persons can be seriously impacted by measles and other diseases.
16
@Carol Avrin If by “unstructured educational settings” you are referring to Waldorf schools, you are mistaken. There’s a very deliberate emphasis on structure, routine, and process that informs every hour, every day, every week, every season in a Waldorf classroom. This is exactly the kind of blithe/sloppy mischaracterization that uninformed people toss out when discussing Waldorf.
3
The pertussis vaccine made my infant feverish and screamy for about 24 hours. After watching that happen twice, her father and I didn't take her in for the third vaccine in the series. It was a gut-level protective response -- an unwillingness to have someone apparently assault our child's healthy body.
Only later did we discover how naive and misplaced our protective instincts had been. Having grown up in comfortable circumstances, we had no understanding of serious childhood illnesses.
When she was 7, a rash of whooping cough broke out. (The vaccination isn't 100% effective, so some fully vaccinated kids got it, too.) She weathered the disease, but it was a shocking experience. She coughed til she vomited, became gaunt, had dark circles under her eyes, and was sick for weeks. Her immune system was depressed for a full year afterwards.
Since then, of course, we made sure she received every vaccine on schedule, but I still recall the urgent (and ignorant) protectiveness that I felt for her infant self.
Somehow these non-vaccinating parents need to be shown the bigger picture. They need to see where their protective instincts are truly needed. Maybe a flood of public-service ads that graphically show what measles and other diseases look like in real life? Pediatricians giving talks about cases they've seen?
154
@Iris Or perhaps a little jail time for child neglect would do the trick. This would do you and your husband both some good for what you inflicted on your child.
@Iris Not only did my infant have high fever and high pitched screams for 3 days after the pertussis vac, these symptoms were accompanied with seizure-like jerks of her head. The doctor countered that she must have been sick already. Naturally I never allowed a follow up Pertussis shot because I thought I had severely harmed my healthy child. We did, however, continue with the other schedule of vaccinations, particularly because of the obligation to the public.
To this day, I still feel ill at ease when thinking of the dramatic side affects of the vaccine, and it makes me hesitant to consider vaccinations against flu, HPV etc, knowing that they are effective against only certain strains of the diseases.
This post could serve as one of those Public Service ads you suggest.
3
I support education that goes beyond rote learning. But such education must include critical thinking skills which guard against such dangerous, anti-science thinking. There are facts out there, and vaccinations cause autism is not one of them. It is clear that some people have no understanding how vaccinations work, like the person who said they would not vaccinate their child unless they became very sick. Rather too late at that point.
13
How many of these antivax parents were not immunized when they were children? How many of them actually had the measles, mumps or rubella? I am over 70. I had the measles as a child and suffered for two weeks. I got the mumps and gave it to my mother who then was horribly sick for several weeks. One of my relatives contracted rubella while pregnant and gave birth to a disabled child as a result. My husband's aunt died from measles when she was four years old. Notably these "childhood" diseases can be transmitted to adults who don't have immunity.
28
@underwater44
This makes me think of my paternal great-grandmother who died of "lock jaw" or tetanus. A horrible death. Do anti-vaxxers get tetanus shots?
10
As someone who developed life-long cardiac complications as the result of contracting the measles at age 8 1/2; whose father-in-law lost a year of school due to polio; whose mother nearly died, at age 11, from diphtheria; and whose close friend developed Guillain Barre syndrome, almost certainly due to his baby daughter's chicken box, and was paralyzed for weeks and in hospital/rehab for six months - I can confidently say that these people are deluded, not very bright and dangerous to the public's health.
My son, my family's kids, and all our friends' kids were vaccinated. All are fine. The research, too, is clear; the anti-vaccinators are reading conspiracy theories on the internet, not science.
The most effective way to combat anti-vacc hysteria is via articles like this one and as much publicity as possible, including for the anti-vacc'ers, who discredit themselves every time they open their mouths.
55
This school sounds more like a cult than a source of education. These parents seem to be singularly unsuited to evaluating scientific and medical sources. Wouldn't want a Waldorf School on a child's application to college to be on the safe side.
6
@poslug
Maybe you should check Waldorf college admission stats before writing your comment ... to be on the safe side.
2
The scariest part is that it shows that education doesn’t necessarily cure irrationality. Some people are in fact methane breathers.
5
If you're not frightened by the sight of your newborn being vaccinated then you're in the minority. Humans are emotional beings and it is scary to see your perfect, healthy, helpless infant stuck with dozens of needles. Our emotionality makes us vulnerable to a number of psychological conditions such as denial. How else can we explain the Trump phenomenon?
We could make great strides in vaccination levels worldwide if we simply developed a way to vaccinate with an oral dose instead of an injectable one. It wouldn't solve all of the issues but it would go pretty far in making vaccinations less of an emotional and polarizing issue.
2
@Greg honestly, seeing my children vaccinated did not scare me at all. I am old enough to have had the mumps and the chicken pox and to have received the smallpox vaccine. I am also old enough to have had friends whose parents were crippled by polio, one of whom died years later from post-polio syndrome.
My parents had me vaccinated as soon as vaccines became available for measles and rubella-I remember the health department ad campaign-get your rubella umbrella.
I found the prospect of illness and disability for my children far more frightening than a needle.
15
@Greg Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I didn't find it at all hard to hold my baby through a few seconds of pain. I was just grateful that I can protect him from diseases that still kill thousands of children throughout the world.
11
@Debbie
My children (babies) cried briefly and then forgot all about it.
10
Are we certain that papaya prevents measles? I feel like I've heard somewhere that it's actually a combination of apples, celery, grapes and walnuts, although possibly I'm confusing the Waldorf method with a Waldorf salad. I must admit that I am feeling a bit "mentally nebulous" this morning, no doubt further evidence of cognitive impairment caused by my vaccinations.
97
You win the comments for today!
I am a staunch advocate of vaccines and a Waldorf parent. Our particular school seems to be doing well on the vaccine front (thankfully California law is now on our side - medical exemptions only). I feel this article misrepresents Waldorf education in several ways. Not all Waldorf attendees are Steiner devotees or irrational thinkers. And in any groups of people there are differing opinions- I’m sure many public school parents share the skepticism of those featured in the article.
Anyway- I’m off for a Waldorf salad just in case. One can’t have too much vaccine protection!
11
@Kathryn
Thank you. I hope I didn't offend anyone -- I'm just such a big "Fawlty Towers" fan that seeing the word 'Waldorf' so many times in a single article triggered an almost Pavlovian response and the compulsion to comment overwhelmed me.
8
What does the term "progressive" even mean anymore? Anything that goes against the grain of tradition?
When I was doing my coursework for my masters in curriculum and instruction (focus on reading/literacy), it was apparent that the principles of the Waldorf program was loony tunes. I would not consider the Waldorf program progress or progressing from the traditional public school system, not that public schools are doing much better...
3
The article doesn't mention the most likely victims of this parental incompetence: the pre-vaccination-age siblings of unvaccinated school-aged children. Those are the kids whose lives are put at risk. Whooping cough does not come with any health benefits for infants.
20
"People are saying..." thought at its worst. When we believe things just because we want them to be true, the consequences are devastating.
3
This is why there needs to be a national law prohibiting religious or other non-medical reasons to avoid vaccinating children. These parents are a menace to society--not just to their own families, but to everyone else--especially those who are immuno-compromised or too young to be vaccinated.
11
In cases where parents choose not to vaccinate, Parents should be held criminally liable for child abuse should their child be injured or killed from a disease where vaccination was available.
Further, the parents should also be liable for anyone else who catches the disease as a direct result.
If we can’t compel all kids to be vaccinated by law, then start holding these parents accountable for the fallout
7
Waldorf schools and Steiner’s thinking generally of are progressive? Would somebody please define what they mean by “progressive.” Trump rails against socialism, but I bet he could not offer a coherent understanding of what that means.
1
Dr. Weitzman has seen death from measles, and so have I, as an Intern on Pediatrics. Witnessing a 12 year old girl suffering from pain as she died from Measles Encephalitis is an image I cannot forget. It was only later that I learned the parents intentionally did not have her vaccinated. I fear for the children of these deluded parents.
49
"We need to have our thinking hats on, every single day, every single hour," said one of these folks without a single trace of irony.
Maybe they should be "thinking" about who is feeding them the "new information" about vaccines on social media. They don't call urban myths "friend of a friend stories" for nothing.
8
It just goes to show you, if the Trump presidency didn't already confirm the thesis, having money doesn't necessarily translate to being smart.
3
There’s nothing progressive about Waldorf schools. They’re regressive in EVERY way one of which is about vaccines. They prepare kids for life in Waldorf school and nowhere else. They should not be accredited (if they even are).
7
I am a Waldorf Parent. My child is vaccinated. To state as the author of the article does that vaccines are "safe" is true to some degree. Most pharmaceuticals are "safe" but many can and do have side effects and consideration should be given in terms of when and how to use them. This is no less the case with vaccines. All medical decisions should be fully informed.
Waldorf schools are an easy target in the anti-vaccine narrative. Most folks know little about them and as a result an anti-technology, anti-intellectual, anti-science characture is easily conjured. The truth is quite the opposite. Parents at our school are mathematicians, corporate CEOs, scientists, computer programmers, entrepreneurs, public school teachers, etc. All are looking for an education that fosters a meaningful relationship with the natural world and engages their children in a developmentally appropriate manner.
Children in Waldorf schools are introduced to educational concepts at different times and a different manner than they might be in a public school. However, that education includes English, foreign languages, math, science, music, the arts, and yes, computers and technology. The curriculum is rich, comprehensive, and much more engaging than what I was exposed to in my years of public and parochial schooling.
Mischaracterizations of communities' practices and beliefs are not productive and will only amplify mistrust. As a result, vaccination rates will continue to suffer.
133
@Conrad
You are trying to rationalize irrationality by saying Waldorf parents include CEOs and engineers and therefore we should listen to their views !
If I have an engineering problem,I will take an engineers advice.
If I have a health concern,I will speak to my doctors.
Simple,isn’t it?
153
@Conrad
To characterize vaccines as “safe to some degree” and then compare them to having side effects on par with the frequency and severity of commonly used medications, is highly misleading and you probably already know this given the intellectual pedigree you refer to.
There is no debate in the medical community about the safety and efficacy of the standard vaccination schedule. The risk is non-zero as is any medical intervention and life itself. However the benefit of vaccination far exceeds the risk and to suggest otherwise is ignorant of decades of clinical experience and expert opinion.
127
@Conrad
"Don't blame the parents - blame the media for pointing out their idiocy!"
58
These parents are the same people correctly infuriated by climate change deniers, but they fail to see the parallels. We must confront the anitvaxx mindset ferociously, but honestly. We must engage with fears, not just call them stupid. We must acknowledge that skepticism of big pharma and the warping of science and health care delivery by profit motives is not irrational across the board. Money and conflicts of interest HAVE warped the focus and goals of that industry in many cases. For example, the reason we DONT have access to a previously available Lyme vaccine is mostly fear of liability. That is tragic and troubling.
BUT, when a worldwide conspiracy theory around vaccines that have indisputably saved millions of lives starts sounding reasonable, alarm bells should ring. You’d better question yourself because you’re going to put other peoples children at risk. Before you reject worldwide, miles deep scientific consensus - peer reviewed articles based on years of experiments - please open your mind. Go to two all-day classes on vaccination led by pro-vaccine medical professionals. You owe the herd at least that.
14
"He taught that diseases were influenced by “astral bodies” and that humans can also breathe through their skin. While he did not completely reject the vaccines against smallpox and diphtheria used in his day, he said rosemary baths were better for diphtheria and that smallpox could be avoided by being mentally prepared to confront it."
It is amazing that parents can legally jeopardize both their children's education by following a charlatan like Rudolf Steiner, as well as their children's health by not vaccinating.
5
These anti-vaxxers are not progressives: they are fanatics. Their beliefs have little to do with their political leanings, and your repeatedly reinforcing this notion is an insult to those of us who consider ourselves politically progressive. There is nothing "progressive" about ignoring science.
15
I strongly object to the idea of calling these schools progressive. They certainly represent the left pole on a spectrum of religious extremes, the right representing authoritarian ultraorthodoxy and the other a "spiritual" embrace of made up garbage, but they are not "progressive" in any reasonable sense of the word.
We lived in Corvallis OR, where there was one of these schools. They had the best fall festivals with candle making and other woodsy crafts. They also were a magnet for every unfettered philosophical butterfly in town. Their children were unsocialized savages with no sense of reasonable behavior.
9
@ J.I.M.
I know that school. I mostly agree with you. Plus, the tuition is very high. My daughter’s boyfriend left Waldorf for middle school bc he didn't know his times tables nor the order of the alphabet. He did love the art. Waldorf doesn't allow kids to wear any shirts with logos but they do sell their own shirts with the Waldorf School logo and if course the kids can wear those and purchase other swag as well. No mirrors in the bathroom either.
These children of these folks should not be allowed to attend school, use any form of public transportation, travel by air or frequent public places. And yes, the parents should be prosecuted for their clearly antisocial conduct.
5
So when one of these unvaccinated kids gets sick with polio, chicken pox, whopping cough, measles, etc., who pays for their medical care? I am guessing it won’t be the parents.
8
Hmmm. And in the Democratic Republic of Congo, 87,000 cases of measles with 1500 deaths, just since the beginning of the year. Those who feel safe and entitled, beware.
9
If they are anti-vax, they are regressive, not progressive. If they were truly progressive, they would care about the larger community, not just their small elitist circle.
10
Waldorf is the Whole Foods of preschools for rich parents. Expensive, stylish, shorthand for high quality for some. If your kid is in Waldorf, they don't junk up your house with garish, plastic toys. You don't have to sit with your kids and help them with public school homework. You don't have to deal with the annoying (blue collar) parents of your child's friend. Your child is never disciplined for bad behavior because you pay them to put up with it. The parents are never called to task for their bad behavior.
7
The justified lack of trust in pharmaceuticals for their disgusting greed, gaming of generics, corruption of Congress, willingness to bankrupt desperate Americans who can’t afford their overpriced drugs, has the unintended side effect of causing non-scientific doubt over the efficacy of vaccines.
7
It just goes to show you- just because you have money doesn't mean you're smart.
6
>“We’re taught to live in the present,” said Melissa, whose children do not attend Green Meadow. “Right now, my children are healthy.”
This is monstrously selfish and short sighted.
17
Diana
This would be hilarious if it wasn’t dangerous !
5
The anti-vaccers have no memory or relatives who suffered. My grandmother had polio. I remember vividly, and she suffered for the rest of her life. These parents are, to put it politely, extraordinarily naive, gullible, and dangerous.
442
@Character Counts Pro Pandemic and their Outbreak kids don't care.
I have two relatives dealing with the nightmare of post polio syndrome. I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy.
20
@Ford313
I know a 74 year-old who suffers from post-polio syndrome. She has so much to give to the world, but for the constant debilitating pain.
9
Anthroposophic medicine is not opposed to the polio vaccine. People who get all riled up about vaccines, on one side or the other, should stand back and become better informed. It is not black and white, and not a reason to further polarize us. There was no mention of any child from Green Meadow becoming infected, or infecting others.
It seems that it’s just not right wing lunatics that are anti-science attitudes. These educated people should be ashamed. Papaya is a cure for disease? If that were the case then it would be in common use.
The stupidity of people is mind-boggling.
14
Progressive is clearly a mislabeling when it comes to Waldorf schools
Ignorant of science seems a better label
5
This is not "the left". It's just residual hippy garbage. It stinks of complacency and ignorance. And indeed, the idea that the government should leave well alone, that personal autonomy should trump every principle of public welfare--that's a right-wing position
6
Shows you that the extreme right has no monopoly on stupidity or anti-science positions.
5
All Homo sapiens have weird esoteric beliefs. It comes with being human. It doesn’t matter how smart or dumb one is. Look—American novelist and Nobel Literature Prize winner, Saul Bellow, studied Rudolf Steiner and so did Kafka. Ernest Hemingway believed in a a rabbit foot’s power to insure good luck and kept one in his pocket. Some believe, without proof, that the quarts of growth hormones injected into factory raised cattle lingers in the butchered meat after slaughter and these chemical residues are one of the primary causes of obesity. Some Catholics believe demons can exorcised. The list of weird human beliefs is long.
3
Ugh. What a bunch of fools. One epidemic, some blind/deaf kids and some dead ones might be the only thing that will get their attention and deflect them from their naive and woo-fired idiocy. Too bad for the kids.
7
I love the Waldorf concept of education but had never known the radical health beliefs of its founder. I had recommended Waldorf schools for my grandson who chafes at the regular school curriculum. When my daughter found out about the anti-vaxxers she said she would never send her son to a school where vast numbers of children would be unvaccinated. I concur. It's sad that presumably well-educated parents reject the scientific reality of vaccines. What is wrong when intelligent people believe conspiracy theories? My siblings and I, my children, and my grandchildren have had all their vaccinations. Everyone I know has had all their vaccinations. I have never known anyone who was adversely affected by vaccinations but I have known those adversely affected by lack of vaccinations. A six-week-old infant I know was too young to be vaccinated, got chickenpox which caused a stroke. I know adults who had polio as children and are suffering from post-polio syndrome as adults. This is just too sad for words!
453
@Katherine Cagle The difference being, you probably had maybe 10 shots, starting at age 5. Nowadays, babies get 7 shots at 6 weeks, and over 50 shots by the time they enter school.
Polio and measles should not be mentioned in the same breath. Everyone my age had measles, that's why we aren't very scared of it. Polio is, and always was, another matter entirely.
1
@Katherine Cagle Yes indeed.
Rudolf Steiner founded Waldorf with many interesting ideas about education. But he also created a philosophy called "anthroposophy."
Read about it sometime. It is an absolute Froot Loop manifesto, especially when it comes to medicine.
Why anyone would follow these medical teachings, from a century ago, is beyond me. We have learned a couple of things in the last 100 years that are relevant -- like advanced immunology, virology, genetics, DNA, RNA, and then some.
These people are trying to fly a space shuttle made of popsicle sticks.
11
@Miriam Everyone also used to have polio at rates of 90-95% before the 20th century. Improved sanitation meant less exposure to the virus and transferable immunity from mothers to babies. With decreasing immunity but still a relatively high presence of the virus, the disease exploded and lead to increased rates in the US prompting the public health calls for vaccination. That it has been brought to the brink of extinction is beyond incredible.
Trying to say though that polio and measles should not be mentioned in the same breath though is disingenuous. Comparing the diseases in the years before vaccines were introduced, there were 503282 cases of morbid events involving measles compared to 16316 cases of morbid flaccid paralysis in polio. And while deaths were 432 vs 1879, respectively, that still does not account for the genuinely debilitating cases of encephalitis, acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, and subacute sclerosing panencephalitis that arise from measles. Everything related to measles is essentially preventable as well with appropriate vaccination of the population.
Finally, your 1st paragraph is a commonly held misconception that has been noted by the WHO as one of six common misconceptions about vaccination.
9
As a pediatric oncologist and scientist who happens to be the parent of a child at a Waldorf school (one with a depressingly low vaccination rate), I have been in the somewhat unique position of having to negotiate this particular conflict.
Waldorf schools, by their very nature, attract people who run counter to the current culture. The views of Rudolph Steiner were counter-cultural even in their heyday of the early 1900s. They certainly are today, which is why they attract the demographic they do. As someone who doesn't want their child to be steeped in blind consumerism and 24/7 electronic connectivity as a default state, I appreciate this part of an alternative educational approach that embraces art and music, teaches cursive and creative writing, and a less competitive K-8 experience.
Anti-vaccination is not a core principal of Waldorf education. To say so is a distortion. Unfortunately the intersection set of those attracted to this approach and the intersection of those who selectively reject established science (I doubt these parents would withhold antibiotics from a septic child) and embrace of internet "research" to justify their ignorance, fear, and loathing when it comes to vaccinations, is large and results in schools with very high percentages of unvaccinated kids, much to my dismay and frustration.
State legislatures must continue close loopholes in vaccine laws, and all schools, including Waldorf schools, must be made to adhere to those laws.
754
@DrSam
"State legislatures must continue close loopholes in vaccine laws, and all schools, including Waldorf schools, must be made to adhere to those laws."
Yes, a thousand times, yes! There are no legitimate religions that prohibit vaccination. The religious and philosophical loopholes must be closed. All schools, public and private, need to comply.
It seems draconian, but apparently that is the only way to deal with entrenched disinformation.
72
@DrSam The people sending kids to these schools aren't "running counter to the current culture" ... they're simply going in lockstep with one subset of the current culture. People who actually run counter don't have chains of schools and aren't embedded in large suburban communities who share their beliefs. What these people are is "Bourgeois Bohemians".
33
@poslug I am a fully-vaccinated oncologist with a fully-vaccinated wife and fully-vaccinated child, who sends my child to a school that is, in our opinion, the best match for her educational needs, and I work from the inside (e.g. as a board member, as a member of the parent community) to try to get the school to enforce their vaccine policy, and who works to get our state legislature to close the personal exemption loophole, so that everyone's child is protected.
38
I continue to be amazed at the power of disinformation in our world today. We have learned to ignore science and are incapable of reading and critiquing scientific writing. We ignore the realities of history and lessons learned over centuries. Vaccines were developed to save lives and prevent mass epidemics. People were dying especially children. We forget that our increasing longevity is for the most part a result of vaccines, not antibiotics or nutrition. Sanitation is another big factor in keeping people healthy. Biomedical treatment always has a risk benefit aspect, but the risks of the anti vax movement far out-way any benefit from not vaccinating. We are dealing with public health, not individual freedoms being ignored. There is a moral, societal and legal imperative to protect the majority. Public health concerns must outway the irrational fears of the individual. This is not to suggest that there are not legitimate reasons not to vaccinate on an individual basis, but these cannot be left to superstition and ignorance. This is the reverse argument often used to oppose abortion, that is to protect the whole society we must abolish abortion. You cant have it both ways. Abortions do not cause others to lose their babies and not vaccinating does. Our civilization is in many ways returning to the Dark Ages of fear, ignorance and superstition that left us with a life expectancy of 3-4 decades rather than 8-9.
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@Wallace F Berman
Also water treatment. Chlorine has saved more lives than antibiotics (antibiotics are wonderful, but it's better to prevent cholera and typhoid than to try to treat them).
13
@Wallace F Berman Actually, the increasing longevity is due to public health in the areas of clean water, washing hands and the like.
1
These people seem to have no concept of community health, among other things. I fully support imposing legal liability on parents who choose not to have their children vaccinated when that unvaccinated child infects a person who medically cannot be vaccinated or who has been vaccinated but immunity did not take hold. You are free to not vaccinate your child, but if you let them out in public and they infect someone, then you should bear the financial consequences of that, at least.
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@Max Farthington And that will be no comfort at all to the person undergoing chemo who gets infected, or the newborn too young to be vaccinated who either die or suffer terrible complications. Money isn't always the answer. And how would you prove exactly which unvaccinated child infected the victim?
49
Agree, also fully support banning them from public services, public places, on the basis of presenting a public health threat.
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@Max Farthington
But public bans run counter to a classic liberal society. If anything, this conflict shows the conundrum of public spaces, especially when they are dominant or compulsory. If more places of association were private, including schools, then those places are free to require things like vaccinations.
I am related to one of the parents at this Waldorf school. She does not vaccinate her children, and she chides me for enthusiastically vaccinating mine. As for measles, she is not worried — she believes that if her kids contract the measles, “they’ll just be sick for a bit,” and that their immune systems would do what they are meant to do. Trust me, there is no amount of science that will help. There is absolutely no convincing these people. If the school won’t change, then we should incent the parents to vaccinate by requiring them to provide proof of child’s vaccination in order to obtain a driver’s license, voter ID, passport, or to receive a tax refund. There is no other way.
621
@QNC
There is indeed another way, but most of us would call it cruel: isolate ourselves from the non-vaccinated and let nature take its course.
24
@QNC
“she believes that if her kids contract the measles, “they’ll just be sick for a bit,” “
But it’s not about their kids! The concern is for the weaker members of her community! Selfish!
162
@Bob Krantz "Isolate ourselves from the non-vaccinated world"
How do you propose to do that? Scarlet "A's" for the non-vaccinated?
5
This just proves that there are anti-science people on both sides of the aisle. Progressively who eschew well-founded public health guidelines, and conservatives who think climate changes is a hoax.
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@Frank
Indeed. Well stated.
18
@Frank
And I suggest that on both sides, some people who "reject science" do so (or at least appear to do so) because they also reject government control.
10
Bob, that’s actually called, “wanting the benefits of human society without accepting its shared responsibilities.”
57
What an irony! The educated left in the same bed with the uneducated right. A sign of the insane times we are living. I have to say that I truly despise more the educated left for this abomination. Educated people have a social responsibility beyond advocating for bike lanes!
58
I guess there is some solace in knowing these science deniers will only lose their children, rather than the entire planet, if there google searches turn out to be wrong, and the world’s scientific community is right.
I can not imagine a greater pain than sitting at the bedside of your critically ill child, knowing that you could have prevented the sickness, if not for your confrontational bias and believing what you read on the internet.
13
@Dr. TLS The problem is that they put other people's kids at risk. As well as putting at risk people with compromised immune systems.
6
Measles poses a unique threat to pregnant women.
28
Glad you published this story. It will serve as a warning to parents considering one of those Waldorf schools and putting their child into a dangerous environment. Another thing to consider. The lunatic families who have children in these schools make very bad neighbors. They would best be avoided.
20
I wonder how these people feel about the rights resistance to climate change.
7
I wonder if the anti vaxxers exosing their children to measles are going to be happy when they themselves get old and those same kids drag them to shingles and pneumonia parties. Because clearly old people getting vaccinated can trigger dementia, Alzheimer's, cognitive decline... which we know older people sometime get. It’s a growing problem along with more vaccination of the older population. So it must be these vaccines that are destroying their brains: autism for the second childhood set.
5
@Brant Serxner
“Clearly" — “Must be”
???
The bottom line is these people truly believe they are better and smarter than everyone else. They believe their children are special, and most of them (we have a Waldorf in our neighborhood), rely on herd immunity to protect their own children. They are not stupid, but they are selfish and self-involved.
113
Why does the Times continue to “teach the controversy” of issues of science fact?
The constant repetition of myths in the news creates an impression that resolved science is open to debate
The overwhelming amount of space in this article is dedicated to respecting and normalizing people whose views are uninformed opinion.
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@Stephen Kyle
Exactly right. And, these articles give the impression that parents that don’t immunize their children are making rational decisions based on serious, legitimate research. It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious and sad.
7
NYTimes shame on you. You seriously should question whether to continue to publish the harmful opinions of anti-vaxxers in the typical 50/50 let’s cover both sides of the aisle. Just like climate change science denial, there is close to complete consensus in the medical and public heath science community that vaccines are safe and prevent the death and misery of hundreds of millions of lives each year. Stop giving a national voice to harmful and wrongly informed opinions, you are only acting to help spread this misinformation. I’m shocked that you put the statement of a medical health professional and tenured Professor next to the ridiculous opinion of a parent with no credible expertise. Have you not learned anything in science journalism and reporting in the last decade?
We are in a time of science communication crisis. There is more mistrust in science now than there has been in over a century. As a PhD student myself it pains me to see science covered in such a manner, knowing that our efforts to push the needle on providing scientific answers to the worlds growing problems is going to waste. Give voices to the scientists who have dedicated countless hours to the study and research of these global problems.
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@Zack g
There is apparently a debate for some about vaccinations. Hiding that reality doesn't solve anything and exposing it is relevant to today's news. The Times rightly let the public know who exactly still has an issue with vaccinations. Good on them.
There's mistrust in science partly because people have been caught bending facts or half-truths to their political bent, others irresponsibly present information in a way that makes people suspect, and because the public is rightly skeptical of all claims until they have corroboration. This is the world you enter with your upcoming advanced degree. Good luck - meant sincerely.
None of the work goes to waste, some of the results takes longer to surface.
2
@Zack g Nice outrage performance there, but try reading more closely. The statement of the medical health professional clearly follows the ridiculous opinion of a parent in order to expose the absurdity of the latter.
Throughout this article, insane statements by parents are followed by statements like "Health authorities said Paul’s view was absolutely not true, but is typical of the misinformation spreading among vaccine opponents." A statement by a parent about how she can't vaccinate her kids for religious reasons is followed by "She declined to explain which of her religious views made her oppose vaccinations." (Because, um, she can't.) A parent's demand for a comparative study of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated people is followed by "Vaccine advocates noted that such studies had already been done."
None of this is "giving a national voice" to anti-vaxxers. It's "making anti-vaxxers look like idiots in a national newspaper." There's a lot to be outraged about on this topic, and I share your fury at the anti-vaxxers, but you and this article are on the same side.
11
It's so easy to point to insular communities and their strange ideas but these people are your next door neighbors and are even more "out there" because they aren't insular.
4
This makes clear that ignorance, stupidity, and negligence are not just the province of the far right. Unlike me, these irresponsible parents are too young to remember children dying or left in iron lungs from polio, babies born deaf or with other problems because their pregnant mothers had been exposed to German measles, or kids dying from chicken pox or whooping cough. The arrogance of these fools is stunning. Not only are they willing to put their own kids at risk, they think it's fine to endanger others with their benighted beliefs. Their entitlement to stupidity should stop at the schoolroom door.
40
“There is not a Waldorf position on vaccination,” she said. “It’s not our role.”
Thanks for protecting kids.
18
@August West I know, right? Way to step up and advocate for the health and safety of your students.
2
"Melissa, another Rockland County parent involved in the litigation, said her Buddhist views prevented her from vaccinating her children unless they became very sick."
Vaccinating after one is already sick with the disease is a real recipe for disaster. Does she have any idea of how vaccines work? I am old enough to have had measles as a child, chickenpox too. No picnic at all. Have mercy on your children!
35
Nuts are a key ingredient in Waldorf salads. Just saying.
The only silver living of this whole vaccination catastrophe is that is shows the left can be just as idiotic as the right.
31
Instead of hugging trees maybe they ought to bang their heads against them until they start thinking clearly.
Stupid. Just plain stupid.
15
In the 80s, my daughters went to a Waldorf preschool in Ithaca, NY. It was a lovely little school where the teachers used natural fabrics, beautiful colors, and a teacher who played the zither and sang for nap time. The environment was calm and happy. I am dismayed to read about the Waldorf school/parents in this article. Our three children had all their shots but I can't recall if anyone at the school asked about that. I would never send my children to any school with non-vaccinated classmates. Those Waldorf schools are being irresponsible. It is a public health hazard.
49
@Meg
I agree with you, at the same time, it is not necessarily the Waldorf school faculty but rather the parents who are drawn to these schools. I'm pretty sure most of the teachers and the director in our town don't actually believe in anthropsosphy and most of the parents don't dig too deeply into the Rudolf Steiner beliefs. If people are interested in the Waldorf philosophy, and do a but of research it can be quite dark and a bit creepy.
Melissa has a profound misunderstanding of Buddhism. Living in the present doesn’t make any thought or planning for the future forbidden. It means you don’t dwell on those thoughts. I wonder if she applies the same logic to her savings account, IRA or 401k, or the kids’ college funds?
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@Dacha cha
Yes. And Buddhists are also taught to practice altruism.
10
The article should show the dangers of mumps (infertility), rubella and measles. There should be more overt visible public health education. Mayo Clinic is a great resource for information. Do these people take Tylenol, antibiotics?
22
So much for science and education. The anti vaccine movement demonstrates the power of emotion over the intellect. It's obvious now that the primitive brain is still driving the specie while the cerebral cortex, which is supposed to support rational thinking, struggles to try to contain the irrational emotions.
The most frustrating issue is that when anyone, let alone millions of people, are in "an emotional state", no amount of rational information will be heard by them. The appropriate solution for the short run is to make sure "we" have our children vaccinated to protect them from the lunacy until this period of hysteria dissipates.
35
@KB
Whether progressive or Progressive, the emotional contingent of the Democratic party has institutionalized policy and governance based on Feelings. Some much for the party of "science".
9
I’m sorry, but I take issue with this characterization of the Left. Some of the most intensely emotional and irrational people I know are right wing nationalists. They’ve simply mistaken their anger and hysteria for reason.
14
Respectfully, what exactly do you take issue with? You don’t explain your reasons, you merely attack the right.
2
I belonged to a spiritual school where many my fellow students were parents whose children attended Waldorf schools. They were very self-centered (the parents) and seemed to take spiritual teachings into the real world in a bizzare way. They would talk endlessly about their kids and Waldorf clap-trap. Seemed like they were always trying to game any system for them and their kids. Entitlement to the extreme. I can see them in this article....
88
Professor Weitzman hit the nail on the head in the last paragraph. Once measles runs rampant thru childhood as it did when I was a child, we’ll sadly begin seeing - again - more measles-induced cases of mental damage, hearing loss and other horrors. Then maybe people will realize the vaccine is what it was back in the early 1960s - a godsend.
70
@Kathleen
Sadly, they're more likely to speculate that the outbreak was a deliberate ploy by Big Whatever to reclaim the vaccine market. They treat any evidence that counters their conclusions with suspicion. Ignorance and arrogance are a very dangerous couple.
26
I'm reminded of another article I read recently, I think in this newspaper. A study showing wealth causes selfishness and cheating. I wish these people would use their money and convictions to get MDs and PhDs, where most of them would learn how very wrong they are. A real scientific education would teach them what Google can't. I'm not sure where they could learn some humility, though.
55
So much for the age of reason. Doesn’t matter if you are left, right, or center. Intelligence is something to scorn.
62
“We’re taught to live in the present,” said Melissa, whose children do not attend Green Meadows. “Right now my children are healthy.”
Yes, until they’re not. The parents in this article vaunt their academic qualifications- degrees in applied mathematics, a masters degree in public health policy, and their savvy in doing internet research, but clearly don’t know the first thing they should have learned from “Child Rearing 101,” -protect your children and other people’s by having them vaccinated against health scourges like measles. They are totally irresponsible, and selfish and are guilty of child endangerment at the very least.
168
There's a profound distrust of the medical establishment in this country, similar to the distrust by those on the right of government. Is it deserved? Not in this case, but if you read the article in the Times regarding the price of insulin for diabetics it's understandable. It's not enough to say that people need to reason better, but our society has to do a better job of convincing people that their interests are it's interests, and then follow through.
We need to focus on why these problems exist and address them, rather than simply blaming people for making poor decisions.
12
@RichardL You make a valid point about overly broad mistrust of the medical establishment being at the heart of much of the anti-vaccine movement. But rebuilding the public trust in all our institutions...medical, government, education, etc...is a long, hard slog. Certainly it's important, but in the meantime, should we allow preventable contagious disease to flourish? The public health threat that these pockets of unvaccinated children pose is something that cannot be ignored. No one has a right to infect someone else with an illness that might kill or disable them.
18
The amount of woo, ignorance and idiocy uttered by these otherwise intelligent people is enraging. Once more for the people in the back: MEASLES CAN KILL KIDS. And even if it doesn't, it can cause lifelong brain damage and even if it doesn't do that, it destroys your immune system's memory for at least a year. So a kid who gets the measles will suffer from other infections long after s/he has recovered from measles.
(and for the woman who said "no one knew about antibiotic resistance until recently," LOTS of people knew. It had been written about since the 1950s. Gad, these people are lousy researchers. ARRGH!!!)
267
@Spaypets I was sick for the entire year 1954 after measles.
15
@Spaypets Yes they are lousy researchers because they are not educated to do research. They search for vaccine side effects on google but not vaccine benefits. They ignore the odds of dying or being crippled by a disease but tout the chance of a side effect from a vaccine.
8
These kids should not be allowed in any public space. No malls, no buses, no restaurants, no airports. And their parents should have civil (at least) liability for the damage they do. Not being vaccinated is anti-social, selfish, and stupid.
181
I forgot to add that while Waldorf is not a cuckoo education the way the article makes it sound, another weakness of (at least the one in our town) is the fact that it's a highly European-centric curriculum leaves it vulnerable to teaching stereotypes about other cultures and societies. You won't get an anti-bias education at Waldorf in many cases.
9
I support vaccination, and think that parents who don't vaccinate are irresponsible and worse. I also support Waldorf education, which I think was mis-characterized in the article. Waldorf education is highly structured, with a well-rounded academic curriculum. Textbooks are not "banned" - rather students make their own based on what the teacher discusses, draws and writes on the board. In my view, the weaknesses of Waldorf involve how they deal kids with special needs (inadequate), intellectually "gifted" kids, and to some extent they way that experiences for young children are limited. (in our local Waldorf, no scissors.) Waldorf education is not the cuckoo's nest the article made it out to be. (though some of those parents interviewed are perhaps cuckoo.)
23
The main reason to vaccinate your child is not for your child’s benefit, but to prevent epidemics that pose threats to those with compromised immune systems. Of course, the idea that you would ever do anything that wasn’t solely for the benefit of your child is completely alien to hard core Waldorf types.
184
Simple solution from a doctor: mandate vaccinations. Make vaccinations the law. It's against the law to drive without a seatbelt on. It's against the law (in most areas) to smoke in or near public buildings. Public health measures are not debatable in many instances, and the federal and state governments actually have broad powers when it comes to mandating public health measures. The absurd and misinformed opinions and beliefs of people are disregarded in so many other areas of law and public policy, but with vaccines the experts seem unable to act decisively.
211
@Pg Maryland
Should we also impose government-approved diet and exercise plans, and create a new branch of bureaucrats and enforcers?
Simply put: are people free to be foolish or are we hoping for a kinder version of 1984?
2
@Bob Krantz
Your diet and exercise choices do not have a negative impact on those around you, your failure to vaccinate or wear a seat belt absolutely can.
26
@Pg Maryland Yes, people have such absurd and misinformed opinions. How could anyone question a law that makes it mandatory to inject babies with a cocktail of chemicals that causes a whole host of complications? And yes let's stifle all debate. Debate is bad. Just ask any Soviet. In 1986 the US government passed the Vaccine Injury Act which exempt pharmaceutical companies from any liability with regards to vaccine, and which declared vaccines to be "unavoidably unsafe".
1
People often point to inner-city minority parents who abdicate their role in responsible parenting; this subject proves that just as anyone can have a child, irresponsibility in child-rearing is also universal.
138
This may take time, but when the deaths and disabilities from these illnesses become common knowledge, attitudes may change. Some people need to see for themselves the devastation.
I remember my mother telling me about the damage these diseases did to her family and friends. Some died, some were disabled for life. She was so grateful that she wouldn't have to fear for my life in the same way parents did during her childhood.
Doctors do not hide the possibility of adverse effects from vaccines. They do a very poor job of explaining statistics and probabilities.
Why aren't we seeing more stories of people currently dealing with the effects of these diseases? Hearing about their very real suffering could be the most powerful tool yet.
I have seen older people who are experiencing post-polio syndrome. They tell me about the fight they put up to thrive as children, and how aging is dismantling their accomplishments. The disease "comes back" to get them a second time in old age. They would have been willing to risk a reaction from a vaccine in order to be able to walk now.
93
I keep telling people I lost my hearing from measles.
12
@ Zejee Thank you for sharing your experience.
"There's a lot of research now that seems to indicate a big negative side to the vaccinations and that not having the natural wild measles also deprives you of some health benefits."
If only these folks took time to understand the horrors that microbes like "natural, wild measles" inflicted upon children in the pre-vaccination era.
122
@Aldo I feel sorry for the children, having parents with thought processes like this.
19
@Aldo and when their kids get "wild" measles and have devastating outcomes, we ALL will pay for their care.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life.
SSPE generally develops 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness.
Since measles was eliminated in 2000, SSPE is rarely reported in the United States.
Among people who contracted measles during the resurgence in the United States in 1989 to 1991, 4 to 11 out of every 100,000 were estimated to be at risk for developing SSPE.
The risk of developing SSPE may be higher for a person who gets measles before they are 2 years of age.
Related page: Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopediaexternal icon
13
I've got to call out some really bad misinformation. Waldorf is very much based on rote learning, and kids are very much discouraged from learning at their own pace or outside the draconian curriculum. There is almost nothing progressive about Waldorf, and it's little surprise that anti-scientific and anti-intellectual ideas find refuge here. "public Waldorf's" clever disinformation campaign, and its use of public funds, could use a little more investigative reporting actually...
68
@Charles Greer Thank you for providing this missing piece and the helpful suggestion. The Waldorf educational philosophy comes from 1919. Most of us have learned a thing or two since then. All private schools that receive public money should be continuously investigated and regulated at the same level that public schools are.
28
@Charles Greer I'd really like to see reading progress comparisons....