Here's a solution: Detach GB from the ocean floor, surround it with pontoons, and then drag it across the Atlantic to become part of the United States.
This solution has many advantages, but the most important would be that it would make more sense and be much easier to implement than Brexit.
144
@Jim
THIS is the only reasonable solution left. Let's do it.
25
@Jim: Boris and Trump would love that! Oh, and another benefit for Trump, his golf course from Scotland would be right here! How great for him, huh?
(Your comment gave me a good laugh. Thanks!).
33
England do not need a second vote sometime you need to fulfill the will of the people.Stop the insanity that a second referendum would fix everything the Brexit camp wont be happy
2
Holmes wrote fiction, as does Cohen. Rather than explain, Cohen uses the inherent confusion to further confuse, reason being laughed at in today's editorial writing rooms when hyperbole and bombast and koolaid sell mashups clicks.
How about we speak to the value in a democracy of a referendum, vs the careers of hacks? Because that's what we have - a lot of hacks who see their careers end if a referendum is carry out because people will grumble later if they do less well economically. This is not the Germans staring across the Channel requiring lockstep solidarity, it's a business downturn threatening political careers. Is avoiding a business downturn worth ignoring the will of the people? It's a question that looms over the US too, where every bad thing is tolerated in the name of the almighty dollar. We KILL in large numbers to lift Wall St. So Cohen swings & whiffs here no surprise.
More people voted in the Brexit referendum than in any Brit vote, ever. They had their reasons having to do with controlling their courts, borders, and hence sovereignty (PC neolibs call it populist nationalism). Cohen overlooks that, because you know (or you may not) Neoliberals are absolutely lockstep with whatever the business community prefers and they only care about the $$.
7
The only ones pleased by Brexit are Putin and Trump.
17
I was going to visit the UK but I think it wise to take a pass until this is all resolved.
11
“What did I ever do to deserve Boris Johnson?”
--- What poor Queen Elizabeth is asking herself today.
19
To paraphrase the inimitable Lindsay Graham, if the British end up with Boris Johnson as their PM, they will be destroyed, and they will deserve it.
13
Brexit. Proof that mass stupidity and incompetent leadership are not solely American traits.
53
At last, a reasonable conclusion: you cant fix stupid. Exactly the same conclusion with Trump and the MAGA party.
31
Criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic, no matter how many times it is slipped casually into sentences in the Opinion pages here. What is anti-Semitic is the rise of the European and American far Right, which Brexit is a part of.. the both-sides narrative endlessly peddled by “moderate” voices in these pages is a boon for the actual neo-fascists. Stop it!
17
I think the democracies of the UK, the US and Australia should look closely at the destructive force that is the Murdoch press. Nothing positive is going to happen in these countries while Murdoch continues to champion a business model of hard right chaos, fear and dishonesty.
1118
It’s frightening and makes me think what it must have been like when countries empowered Hitler, Franco, Stalin, Mussolini. I could never understand how that happened...I do now.
170
@Matt
As Rupert and his clan spread their poison for filthy lucre, the idea that democracy can be sustained in nations compromised of fools becomes, shall we say, problematic.
124
@Matt Thank goodness he has left Canada alone thus far.
50
I still think the Russian angle and the Brexit misinformation campaign needs to be fully exposed. Loans to the pro-Brexit campaign came from outside Britain — making them illegal. Arron Banks was “not the true source” of a total of eight million pounds made to Better for the Country, an organization that ran the “Leave.EU” campaign, with the help of Cambridge Analytica.
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/19/630443485/reporter-shows-the-links-between-the-men-behind-brexit-and-the-trump-campaign
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/world/europe/brexit-arron-banks.html
Russians Offered Business Deals to Brexit’s Biggest Backer https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/world/europe/russia-britain-brexit-arron-banks.html
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
15
"The center is weaker than ever before in Britain. The political make up of the country is in flux."
Maybe it is time for that "country" to dissolve. Maybe it is time for Northern Ireland to rejoin the rest of the island of Ireland as one country. Maybe it is time for Scotland to be its own independent country. Would these two scenarios be that awful? Maybe for the ego of Great Britain it would be humbling. And for the peoples of Northern Ireland and Scotland, maybe it would be a good thing.
139
@Judith The UK government has consistently said that it will support the decision of the Northern Irish people on the subject of leaving the UK, whatever that is. As for the Scottish people, they recently voted in a referendum to stay in the UK.
12
@BRENDAN BRUCE This British government has never once said that. The electorate of northern Ireland voted in a majority to remain in the EU.
The Tories are pandering to the Ulster extremists to retain a majority in parliament.
And the Scottish voted narrowly in a referendum to stay a part of the UK before England voted to leave the EU.
That referendum result now becomes irrelevant.
33
Dan you’re confusing two things. Part of the good Friday agreement was that if a majority of the northern Irish population vote for a United ireland they can have it.
The EU vote is a separate issue.
13
The citizens of the UK lost the moment they ratified this short-sighted, xenophobic referendum. But, the majority foolishly approved the measure, now they all must live with the inevitable outcome(s). Shame; your base emotions and fears have compromised the future of your children and grandchildren.
"He who knows, and knows that he knows is wise. Follow him.
He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep. Wake him.
He who knows not, and knows that he knows not is ignorant. Teach him.
He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool. Shun him."
8
Well, nothing helps to produce an incompetent leader more than smearing the opposition.
And anti-semitism seems to be the au courant smear.
6
"...the unscrupulous, ramshackle, flip-flopping, dissembling former foreign secretary, whose uncertain relationship with the truth and unwavering narcissism..."
Come on, Rog, tell us what you really think of BoJo. Is he a charlatan or just pragmatic?
1
"However improbable it was that a normally prudent nation would vote for self-amputation from a 46-year membership in a union of a half-billion Europeans that has brought it prosperity and influence, this happened."
Does Mr. Cohen imagine that the UK was impoverished and impotent before it joined the EU?
5
Well, I guess the only reason they ended up with Brexit is because the majority of voters felt disenfranchised, burdened, and left out. So, what did or can the EU do to restore faith with this group, and then, maybe the British could get a second referendum? It makes me think of divorce, - what man or woman leaves a perfect or even a good mate? It takes two to tango.
20
@rebecca1048
why should the remaining 27 countries have to go through acrobatics to appease GB? they are incapable of getting their own house in order...and they've had years to do it...
20
This section shows how many, including the author, seem utterly incurious about the question you raise:
“However improbable it was that a normally prudent nation would vote for self-amputation from a 46-year membership in a union of a half-billion Europeans that has brought it prosperity and influence, this happened.”
9
@rebecca1048
"Well, I guess the only reason they ended up with Brexit is because the majority of voters felt disenfranchised, burdened, and left out."
Wrong. Brexit won because of the spurious lies of its supporters, appealing to the same susceptible populace who voted for Donald Trump . Please take a few minutes to watch this TED Talk by British investigative journalist Caorle Cadwalladr. What she presents is a devastating tale of a nation swayed by falsehoods & lies.
https://www.ted.com/talks/carole_cadwalladr_facebook_s_role_in_brexit_and_the_threat_to_democracy
32
Please stop spreading this absurd far-right smear that Corbyn is anti-semitic. I would expect better from the NYT than parroting that ignorant line.
11
Well, this is the kind of mindset you get from hundreds of years of a "king", "colonialism" and "empire". Apparently the flies now believe they can conquer the flypaper. Much of the European continent has managed to bury these hoary concepts but the Brits (as always) insist they are the only civilized ones on the planet while they pee in their shoes. I'm sorry but it is bad bad comedy and the world will be supplied with laffs by the boxful daily from now on. Boris Johnson? Chuckle! I don't think "Bundles for Britain" are going to save them either.
4
How tragic that the author persists in the lie that Corbyn and Labour are anti-semitic, a lie fulminated and spread by Netanyahu and rabid Zionists who hate any criticism of what Israel is doing the the Palestinians. Shame. Lies breed lies.
11
With or without Boris Johnson, if the U.K. goes through with a "hard Brexit" in October, the country will slip into the worst deprivation seen since the rationing during World War II and its aftermath. The only way out of this suicidal path is a new Brexit referendum; it should be held as quickly as possible.
14
So much for splendid isolation.
2
Even if a second referendum were to result in a “stay” vote, doesn’t the rest of the EU deserve a say in the matter? One wonders if the EU would want the UK back after all this.
9
Theresa May could have dragged her feet on sending the letter formally withdrawing from the EU, negotiating conditions of withdrawal before she sent the letter. If she was determined to follow through with Brexit, that would have given her leverage to get the most reasonable plan possible through Parliament: She could have said, "No plan, no Brexit letter." She might have been forced to resign by her party, but that happened anyway.
3
I must say BBC does an exemplary job of summarizing Ms May here: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-48389800/theresa-may-s-pol
Obstinacy, lack of vision, unable to rally or motivate... she failed and has left it going on for too long, before calling quits.
And Mr Boris Johnson... a journalist friend of mine in London said, its time for him to come on as the PM. When I sputtered he explained, England needs to be thrashed at the head just the way USA is being via Mr Trump's hands, for Britishers to really wake up politically, and socially.
And those of you who want a taste of BJ, here's another BBC clip: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-41453375/boris-johnso
Tone deaf Buffon is what most Brits call him.
I am so, so disappointed in Ms May.
And whoever comes on, it is not going to go well, at all.
You simply can't fix an abysmal mistake.
You realize it and undo it-- with mea culpas and humility and adequate remorse-- which none of these candidates seem to have.
I guess conservative party is gong the same route the one we have here. I am not for comparisons, but you simply can't avoid them, now can you?
12
I’m not convinced of Holmes’ logic. One observation that seems to hold ... which would apply to UK and whatever underneath drives Brexit, as well to the US and whatever underneath caused the disgrace of Trump ... is that before moving forward, the “bottom” must be hit. A homeopathic-like approach. The effect of failure reveals itself when unobstructed; but the longer failure doesn’t have chance to show itself ... because of distractions of debate, personal insult, fear mongering, etc ... the greater it subtly gets.
3
Boris Jonson and his tribe are a group of ego-shooters whose only agenda it is to advance their personal careers and agenda, with no regard for the country.
It is very easy to be obstructive and radical, but much harder to bring about a workable solution for all the tricky problems at hand and convince the public to buy in.
It is telling that these group of politicians have not even attempted to suggest a scenario after a hard Brexit, with all the details around interacting with the neighbors for trade, security, general polticial matters such as igration etc. which need a solution no matter what.
Having Boris and Nigel Farange as new prime minister would be the worst case outcome: Proven irresponsible populists with no plan forward swinging the wrecking ball, leaving the chaos and clean-up for the next generation to shoulder.
So sad...
7
The ideal solution is a hard Brexit with Boris and Nigel at the helm, followed by chaos, deprivation, suffering and remorse. Only then will Britain really understand what has been lost, and who is responsible.
Then, after hunting down the culprits and exacting some well deserved revenge the UK (or what's left of it) can reapply for EU membership with full-throated enthusiasm, on the EU's terms.
As it all unfolds I expect that the incident where BJ was suspended in mid flight on a zip line while mayor of London will be seen as an accurate foreshadowing of his future as PM and his progress in negotiations with the EU. I will savour his humiliation with deep and abiding satisfaction.
10
Conservatives do exactly what their name tells us. They conserve! Why are we surprised when they persist in retrograde policy making to the point of dysfunction?
1
I'm afraid most of the Americans cheering Boris Johnson on have no real idea of just who he is and what it will mean if he becomes Prime Minister, since they visualize him as some kind of savior who will restore Brexit and Tory leadership in the guise of making it "great again" -- just like some kind of a British Donald Trump.
And therein also lies the danger.
Get ready for a bumpy ride.
12
"Britain on the Brink of Boris Johnson and Chaos"
Britain on the brink of another Trump and further chaos.
5
Let's hope Boris Johnson won't succeed Theresa May as prime minister.
Known for his foul-mouthed antics, he is unfit for high public office. He may have been a good laugh while he was the mayor of London.
But in later years as foreign secretary he made himself a nuisance with his outrageous remarks.
In 2016 he was a prominent Brexiteer, and his mendacity did much harm to the country.
His self-destruction is his own business, but he has no right to drag the country down with him.
European leaders are right about Johnson being a loathsome charlatan, a Trumpian peddler of EU lies.
8
The last thing Britain needs is a self-entitled twit of a gadfly named Boris Johnson.
Ironically, he was born in New York to British parents and thus had dual citizenship. Upon becoming Foreign Minister he gave it up.
Johnson's abiities to create chaos have a give-away--his hairdo, last seen in old photos of a mental institution. It's time to follow the money to him, as well as Brexit, Trump, and the Le Pens.
Those who want to trash the post-World War II order of things have nothing of value to replace it, save a suzerainty to Putin and his oligarchs. Is this what people really want? I don't think so.
8
One of Cohen’s best columns, mainly because it’s so easy. I used to think of the English as snobs who were bright and capable. Bright and capable no longer, now just snobs. Was the past greatness real or just a mirage. Did a bad virus infect the population. Did the people not know that Farage and Johnson (like Trump) we’re lying to them.
7
And remind me again, why should I care if a once great empire is now fading away like the traces of an aerial firework in the pitch black of night. They are yet another cautionary tale for the rest of us and a strong endorsement of the adage, “Pride goeth before a fall”. Out of their residual false pride and ignorance they have put a knife to their neck and said, ‘see what we can do’. Now they are drawing it across their flesh and how the blood will flow. See you around UK, your time is over.
7
Britain deserves Boris Johnson just like America deserves Trump. Both countries seem incapable of patience and taking a long view of the future.
It is going to be a bumpy, bumpy ride for Britain.
8
It's time to jettison the name United Kingdom. How about we just call it what it will surely become, The Kingdom. Good luck Boris. Good luck Conservative. Go MEGA (Make England Great Again)!
2
Russian interference in Brexit has created turmoil and intense divisions. The same influence was successfully accomplished in Americas past couple of election's. Our Republican Party has welcomed this assault, protecting it for their selfish and evil purposes. Having Pres. Donald in office has paid vast dividends to Russia, as has the vicious infighting in England. Putin is winning this war and we Westerners are helpless under the sustained assault. As far right factions continue to win elections with the usual Russian help, the further erosion of democratic ideals continues almost entirely unchallenged. The world's right wing conservatives are winning. Russia is winning. The future is dim indeed... Have a nice Memorial Day. More wasted military and civilian deaths are soon to come. Eat hamburgers and a hot dogs...
3
Matt, if you take a close look at the MSM in the US, they have solidly sounded the Democrats views, not Trump's.
I'm curious; and willing to display my American ignorance in this matter so please allow me this perhaps stupid question. Where in the world is the Queen and the Royal Family in this situation? Should their voice not have a say of some significance in this decision making?
I get that it's a Parliamentary game being played but truly, would everyone in Parliament not take into consideration where the Queen stands on this matter? In all the time spent observing this kerfluffle I've never seen one thing stated about her position.
And if it doesn't matter then what's the point of her role in UK society? Is she little more than a hood-ornament on the front end of a Rolls Royce? No offense meant to the Queen but really....shouldn't she be speaking up in this?
John~
American Net'Zen
2
Malheureusement, the Brexit circus will continue with a new ringmaster! Only a second referendum can kill this travesty and salvage the reputation and economy of a great nation.
3
Universal suffrage is a relatively new concept. And I do approve of it. But, faced with a bigger communication technology change than the one that let the Reform spread rapidly across Europe, we need to learn how to incorporate it into our political life. And we will. In the meantime, the racists, the knaves and the fools will play havoc with our governance. Call it growing pains. Sigh ...
1
The thought of Theresa May being succeeded by Boris Johnson brings to mind the phrase "Out of the frying pan, into the fire."
2
Why is a return to the 1950s such a successful con?
5
The European Union is not the paradise Roger paints. Its eastern members are flirting with fascism, its immigrant muslim youth are unemployed, anti-semitism is on the rise and it is at the mercy of Russia, unable to defend itself without American leadership and support. A good time to leave this undemocratic bureaucracy. It does have Eurovision. It will be hard for the UK, but she will survive and ultimately be fine.
3
Electing Boris Johnson as PM is as good as sending a crazy man with a pick-axe into the hull of a wood ship — nothing good can come of it short of sinking.
6
Boris is Brexit. Brexit is Trump by another name.
7
Cameron,the man that succeeded in blowing up his premiership, his party and his country. The only thing he didn't suceed in blowing up is the EU.
1
If Boris Johnson spoke with a working-class accent, he'd have been political toast long ago. But with that posh voice and flop of blond hair, he's a celebrity 'character'. And far too many British voters are willing to support him.
The idea of Boris as P.M. should be beyond the pale, but...he's a front-runner.
Read all about young Boris in Max Hasting's memoir, 'Editor'...The fact that Boris has risen so far is an indictment of the British political culture.
4
Independence foe Scotland, bloodshed in Northern Ireland and a second de facto partition of Ireland.
Just two consequences of an English Brexit.
3
Tories have enthusiastically embraced the idiocy of Brexit; it will likely lead to their eventual demise. They, like Republicans in this country are riding the fabled tiger, can't dismount without getting consumed. Of course, the Republicans' tiger is not Brexit... rather it is overt bigotry and uber-venal corruption that they have chosen to embrace.
2
Angela Merkel created this mess with unfettered immigration into the EU during 2015.
She is one of the greatest human disasters ever inflicted on this planet.
Why is SHE still in office?!
4
On Boris Johnson and the US
Boris Johnson was an American Citizen - until 2016
He did not leave US citizenship on good terms.
Johnson was born in New York when his parents worked there, but has not lived there since he was five years old.
However, under US law that left him a dual UK US citizen.
In 2014 the US was trying to charge him for tax on the sale of his home in Islington, north London (a tax free sale under UK law). He regarded that as “absolutely outrageous”.
Interestingly, then President Obama let the IRS pursue the case - and to this day, it is not known who informed the IRS on the sale, as such sales, being tax free, are not registered in any UK government list.
According to the Financial Times, Johnson paid an undisclosed sum in 2015, not to be arrested during a subsequent visit to Boston.
Will be interesting to see US-UK relations under Johnson
1
May’s biggest mistake was giving Boris a role in her government. He is Canada’s Ford brothers, the US’s Trump family and a buddy of Steve Bannon. It’s the twilight of not only the British empire but of Western world dominance. Britain was always a reluctant partner - there was no glory - only a drab and dreary sameness and class structure. On the world stage Trump is empowering the Saudis and Israel and Asia is the new powerhouse. The West is mired in drugs and it’s citizens obese and complacent - lulled by cheap Asian goods. Asia and the Middle East are young and hungry. Trump, the anti- science, is enabling the decline of US innovation.
4
Donald Trump's endorsement of Brexit should be all that any voter in the United Kingdom needs to know.
7
Hello Boris! Goodbye Scotland. The push for Welsh independence accelerates. Thought the Irish “troubles” were over, think again. The United Kingdom will not survive Brexit. Certainly not with Donald’s twin at the helm. The British don’t have nearly the capacity or stomach for dishonesty, corruption and stupidity that America has shown.
5
Just quoting Cohen :" Corbyn, the man who has opened the floodgates for anti-Semitism in his Labour Party". I have to observe that any one writing this not only hides the truth but actively distorts reality. How on earth could I beleive what Cohen says about any topic if I see how he constructs the alleged Corbynist anti semitism?
3
Organised Chaos! Would expect nothing less!
Debacles like Brexit do not happen because of one person. It takes more than Theresa May to have botched this all up. Parliament takes the blame too. They refuse to vote for anything. Laying the blame at the feet of one person is the easy way out rather than looking at the complex and complicated reality of the situation. I look at Theresa May as a strong and intelligent woman working with an insipid and mediocre parliament.
97
As a strong British supporter of staying in the European Union I’m overjoyed by the prospect of Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. No longer able to keep up buffoonery and bluster from the sidelines, he’ll either discover that the Brexit unicorn he promised never existed, or lead the county to a ‘no deal’ exit on Halloween. In the first case a new referendum is the only logical outcome ...and in the second the economic turmoil will force us to reapply to join. (Maybe the EU will allow a no deal Brexit with a one-year deadline for a humiliated nation to rejoin?). There is no way this will end well - Britain is more diminished than at any time since the Sues crisis of 1956 - and Johnson deserves a chunk of the blame for his fairy tales about post-Brexit prosperity.
8
I guess the US isn’t the only country where liberal bolsheviks choose to wreck the whole place rather than accept a conservative agenda (and its leaders) that the people have voted for, particularly if that agenda includes border control.
5
The conservatives risk becoming a political system of the past as the right is in the USA? Brexit may mean a weaker politically, economically, & socially isolated England. What a mess it could be! I worry for England's future as I do for that of mine, in America..
1
A new referendum could offer the British people a choice between the Brexit deal that Teresa May reached with the EU, a no-deal Brexit, and continued EU membership--the only three options that are actually on the table. There could be a run-off referendum if no option secured 50% of the vote.
This would be a far more democratic and transparent approach than the last Brexit referendum, in which people were asked to vote on leaving the European Union, but without any details as to what that would actually entail.
2
It is highly ironic to observe the right-wing populists in Britain accusing the European bureaucrats of elitism when the populists are largely alumni of what the British call "Public schools" (like Eton) and Oxbridge. Theirs is an elitism by privilege while the Brussels bureaucrats seem to follow more a pattern of elitism by achievement. It shows.
3
The impasse will continue until the London elite recognizes that what made them rich - a global economy - sent large sections of Britain down the hole, and implement corrective measures
So far, neither the UK nor the US elites understand this
3
Have a second referendum, what's the big deal with that? Bloomberg wanted a 3rd term though the law said no. So the City Council simply changed the law.
1
To get the best deal, you may have to have no deal. Short term disturbances (even years) are worth it to be treated as an independent state as economic recessions are recoverable but boarder issues like the one facing British sovereignty were not. The media keeps shining the spotlight within the UK between the rural and urban divide but that is just focusing on the result of years of EU/UK imbalances and a deaf Brussels; the same is happening in the US Congress and if our elected leadership doesn't start to actively listen and compromise across the isle, I fear the US could follow in the UK's path.
1
@Matt Are you suggesting that the US is in fact planning on perhaps leaving the EU? Shocking!
1
I remember well some of Boris Johnson's past antics....this will be a trip into the lair of the Mad Hatter if he indeed becomes the Prime Minister....he is closely related to Trump, personality wise and can be rather bizarre as well, as I recall. Hold on to your hats, it might be a rocky ride! Many may wish Theresa May was back in office. For all the issues, I have to respect her powers of endurance, her dignity when under enormous hostile pressure, and her civility. Watch what happens now. And don't forget, when at a Mad Tea Party, "Move on, move on!".
1
Brexit has never been any more than a slogan. Now that most people know they were sold a pile of nonsense by the Leave side, I think another referendum is just the sensible thing to do. After that's sorted, vow never to hold referenda again - use the parliamentary democracy invented in Britain (I think) to deliberate and make considered decisions like in the olden days.
4
Slower growth? Compared to what? UK economy is growing faster than EU economy. The EU is a sinking ship bloated with bureaucratic hand wringers.
3
Very good analysis; see also the reporting from the Economist over the past two years on the issue of Brexit.
So the issue is whether neo con politicians are comfortable with their role in history to preside over such debacles.
We have seen in the United States that our republican political hacks will support Mr Trump regardless of the inanity of his actions, his contempt for anything and anybody "not Trump," and his narcissistic self-righteousness. Johnson is no different.
There is also a major lesson to be learned by the centers of the political spectrums in the remaining legitimate democracies in the world. That lesson is when policy designed to foster global economic inter-dependence taking mathematical advantage over the pools of capital and labor, consequences are meaningful.
The neo cons have leveraged the dissatisfaction of their economically displaced people, stoked the animus of scapegoatism, and purposefully distorted truth.
The liberals have continued to extol the global order causing the economic displacement, argued that the majority ethnicities were privileged and racist, and sweeping social change based on demographics and need is inevitable.
Seriously now, which message is going to resonate with the dissatisfied ethnic majorities in these democracies?
3
Now that Theresa May is out of the picture, whoever moves in will probably just take her place as favorite person to ridicule.
The problem isn't the leadership but the action itself.
Brexit is a solution based on emotion and fear. Racism is a major driver in this paradigm.
Maybe someone will pull a rabbit out of this hat but that would probably only be a diversion from the simple fact that it's a bad deal for average citizens as well as almost all businesspeople large and small.
The pains of integration and the desire to return to a past that's probably not all it's cracked up to be have nothing to compare with the fruits of diversity and multicultural society.
1
A couple of observations :
First , that the REAL disaster will happen when the Tories , so divided and chaotic , under whatever new leadership , will be defeated come the next Elections time , and then Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister ... .
Second , from a big picture point of view - and we have seen it so many times in the lives of people and nations - it is difficult to stomach descending into mediocrity and relative insignificance after being on top of the world . You keep twisting and turning in looking for the glorious past , but it is not there anymore... .
This is what the rest of Europe has accepted , and resolved to be together . What a pity for the UK ! .
Boris Johnson is a man completely without principle. He led the campaign against Heathrow's new runway, a position highly popular in his constituency, then managed to be unexpectedly abroad for the parliamentary vote so he wouldn't have to risk his cabinet position by voting against it. He turned pro Brexit only when he could see votes in it, and was personally responsible for many of the outright lies told during the campaign, including the false claim that Turkey was going to join the EU. As Foreign Secretary he left a trail of offended allies and put UK citizens in jeopardy.
His cheating on his various wives was notorious, his lies reflexive and unapologetic, his rudeness to those he considers his social inferiors legendary, his politics are whatever he thinks will benefit himself most at the time. And all of this is general knowledge. It is a sign of the disaster that is UK politics that the mostly elderly middle class Conservative electorate think that he somehow represents them. If elected he will let them down as much as he does the rest of us.
5
It's as if conservatives in Britain have looked across the ocean and decided: "There's a great idea. Let's appoint the least qualified,lying, conniving, no nothing, self serving cretin, to lead us through this most dangerous moment in our living history".
This is what conservatism has become. Not just in Britain or America, or several other EU countries, despite the valiant efforts of David Brooks, Jennifer Rubin and so many other Conservative commentators, here and abroad.
Conservatism has become the byword for self destructive, anti democratic, fear mongering populism. Eisenhower, Churchill and DeGaul will be rolling over in their graves.
5
Mr. Cohen has hit the coffin nail on the head. One wonders where all this leads. Is dystopia really around the corner? Will "culture" survive or are we headed into a truly Dark Age on a world-wide scale? Inexplicably ignorance is seeming to win the day.
A smart phone doesn't a smart mind make.
4
WWII has been over for 75 years. Generations of fat prosperity has allowed the populace to forget how quickly things can go wrong and how bad it really can be.
8
If May had not been totally incompetent and the EU leaders had not doubled down on their unelected, unaccountable holier than thou governance and both had worked out a sensible Brexit then Boris Johnson would be back at the Daily Telegraph.
1
Don't cry for May, Britannia. In the end she had only tears for herself and not all the mess she made.
1
While Johnson (or Farage) would be a disaster for the UK; it might just be what we Americans need. Mind you, we don't need the economic impact of it. We also don't need the uncertainty of relationship with the UK. What we do need is the lesson of just how disastrous and dangerous the far-right politics of the Tories and of our own Republicans can be for a country's well-being.
Watching the UK descend into chaos may just be what we need right here, right now, to break the ugliness of the far-right politics of division and lawlessness of Trump.
Prediction: Brexit finally occurs. Scotland leaves the UK. Northern Ireland leaves the UK and merges with Ireland. All that is left is England and Wales. The USA offers them statehood, and they become the 51st and 52nd states. The American Revolution is finally over, George III rolls over in his grave.
2
The fact that Brexit threatens the hard won peace process in Ireland is one of the greatest crimes of this self inflicted political fiasco. For those of us who are old enough to remember "the Troubles" were considered one of the most unsolvable political sore spots in the world, on par with Israel-Palestine conflict. Incredible effort was made by the EU, America, the UK, and the Republic of Ireland to come to a compromise solution. It is not perfect. All sides in the conflict had to swallow solutions that were once considered non-starters. But, by and large, it has worked. The violence slowly petered out. The economy of Northern Ireland has shown remarkable growth, especially when you consider where it was before the Easter accords. And the fools in the Tory party are willing to put it all at risk for arguments over bananas and crisps.(See Bojo"s absurd editorials for these references). What a pity!
3
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Excerpt from "The Second Coming" William Butler Yeats, 1919
1
How easy it is to blame Russia and the International Kleptocracy for the demise of Democracy!
The Truth is much closer to home - as Plato correctly pointed out (The Republic, Book VII), democracies inevitably lead to tyranny not because of extraneous forces, but because of human nature. It is simply silly to expect the populous to govern itself with mutual respect and understanding. Just like cancer eventually dooms living tissue to self-destruction, Democracy is an unstable system that has in it the seed of its own corruption - Britain and the United States are glaringly clear examples of this.
1
Trump and Johnson: Now that will be a twist on our "special relationship".
If confirmed as Prime Minister, Boris Johnson’s first task will be to come up with a new name for the country. Under consideration are Not So Great Britain and The Desperate Kingdom.
While the likely new Prime Minister has suggested Huge Johnson or Boris Land as his personal top picks, many younger Britts are pushing for Punk Britain or Dumb Britain. The renaming process will be put to a national vote which will be controlled by Vladimir Putin. Following the vote, there will be a three year waiting period, during which, British Parliamentary leaders will take turns milling about, blabbering incoherently, and shooting themselves in the foot.
President of the United States, Donald Trump, who recently said “I have always bigly supported Brixit”, proposed that he buy the entire country and turn it into a TRUMP branded property.
Can we stop pretending that Brexit "makes no sense"?
It makes perfect sense. Some people don't want bureaucrats they didn't vote for making decisions about their economy, immigration policies and so on.
You don't have to agree with them to acknowledge their point. The US isn't part of the International Criminal Court for the exact same reason. The Swiss aren't part of the EU for the exact same reason.
The portrayal of pro-Brexit voters as far-right is out of touch and insulting. Stop it.
69
@ted Even when those decisions helped Britain maintain a strong economy? Don't cry when the British economy tanks.
41
@ted
Sure, it makes perfect sense if you promote the go-it-alone philosophy. But this is not the 18th century. That's what the Brexiteers want to go back to, and why not? Britain ruled the entire world.
But there is no going back for Britain, nor is there for the USA. "Leaders" on both sides of the Atlantic preach otherwise, but there is no turning back.
Cameron should never have left the divorce from EU up to the plebiscite. That was highly improper, and the stubborn refusal to allow another vote is astonishingly irresponsible.
Interesting times, indeed. Everywhere.
66
@ted
No we can't stop pretending that Brexit makes no sense because it makes no sense.
If the UK wants to stay the United Kingdom it is, it has to accept the Good Friday agreement. Once that get's violated the UK will fall apart. With Brexit that is a very very likely outcome.
And it is kind of funny that the Brexiteers of all people are voting Nigel Farage into the EU Parliament. I thought the EU is "undemocratic"?
36
Residing in Quebec where we've our share of divisive referendums, I know how these things tear families apart, make friends enemies and rip people's hearts out. Trust me, you don't want to get into a cycle of never ending referendums.
But there is a way to put an end to it once and for all. Or at least give people the time they need to accept the result. Hold a referendum election. A general election where the number one issue is Brexit or Bremain. If the Bremain party wins, the UK remains in the EU. If Brexit wins, it's incumbent on them, not parliament, to negotiate a deal the rest of Europe can live with.
The Brexit side should not be afraid of this. They won once, they should win again. Unless they realize Brexit is not truly the will of the British people.
But neither of the main parties has STAY as a policy. They are both scared of offending "the will of the people". Even though that leads to disaster and the vote to leave was based on lies and an impossible cake and eat it dream.
Total absence of rational leadership.
It is difficult to know which of the "leading democracies" ( US or UK) is suffering more from that problem.
@Sydney Kaye
Then hold party leadership reviews first. The position of the leader becomes the policy of the party.
I am consistently amazed by Cohen's ability to misunderstand Brexit and thus to fail to predict future action. THERE WILL BE NO 2ND REFERENDUM.
2
I remember clearly, that I gasped the most remembered gasp of my life the thought I instantaneously had when I heard that Brexit had won: He can win! Trump can win. And all along the way, that's what i felt. And when Comey, came out to talk about Weiner/Humas computer I knew it was over.
Brexit was the beginning of this dread that has not left me since.
6
Soft Brexit, Hard Brexit - it makes no difference. In the end, the result will be weaker economies, more disgruntlement and disillusionment that will provide political power to Russia and China. I fully expect to see tanks role through Europe in my lifetime.
2
The basic definition of national sovereignty lies in a country's ability to determine who may live and work there, and who may come there, from where and in what number. Britain could achieve this objective under Brexit if it would agree to a customs union. Business would of course be bound by EU rules, but businesses always compromise to satisfy their customers. It's not a big ask, and business gets a lot in return. Yet this was proposed and defeated. Astounding.
1
I laughed out loud when Theresa May named Boris Johnson her foreign minister. Now Johnson appears to be a leading candidate to replace May, and the situation isn't so funny.
Having lived in London when Johnson was mayor, I view him as quirky but intelligent. He's comfortable with chaos, but Britain may not be. "Hard Brexit" can be done, but the economic uncertainty it will bring will be challenging to endure.
5
Amen. Please, Brits, vote again on this. It is a monumental decision that should be made by the people, not bureaucrats.
3
On the contrary not politicians but educated bureaucracts. Certainly not the people.
1
Boris would be a disaster for Britain and if elected, I see Ireland and Scotland becoming separate countries and sticking with the EU. Educating votes is imperative. England would become a second rate country and fall far from grace. Food, provisions, etc. would dry up and cause wide spread poverty in England-dooming their future. This right wing populism around the world is as dangerous as Nazism.
2
The era of trump or, more generally, chaos is upon us.
1
Could Boris be any worse?
3
“Both are men gifted in the dark arts.” And this passes for commentary? No wonder the Left cannot make it’s case against Trump. Hysteria has replaced reason and common sense.
2
@Edward Perhaps the statement above that sentence can help you put it into perspective.
None of it is "hysterical," and I believe the truth is certainly "common sense."
"Her most likely successor, given the extent of rabid pro-Brexit sentiment among Tories, is Boris Johnson, the unscrupulous, ramshackle, flip-flopping, dissembling former foreign secretary, whose uncertain relationship with the truth and unwavering narcissism resemble Donald Trump’s."
5
It must not be forgotten that the extremism of the Brexit movement led a deranged man to murder Jo Cox, an upbeat politician, and mother of two, who valiantly fought for remaining in the EU. Great Britain lost the kind of leader it should want more of all to possibly put a clown in charge. What a waste.
8
Hmm.. Was planning a visit to London in September.... maybe a bad idea?
1
Sure, why not? Why should we be the only major power with an insane, uneducated, lout as our leader? They will either be Besties, or declare war on each other. It is impossible to predict which one with those two.
2
@Bruce1253: One day one way, the next day different.
Chaos is their friend.
2
I find it frightening how many commentators here at the NYT apparently have nothing BUT contempt for the idea that democracy involves an empowered citizenry. Apparently any opinion different than those of the lobbyists and 'Masters of the Universe' are ignorant and dangerous and so we find the very same mentality espoused by the Chinese Communist Party.
This is clearly 'Oligarchy' NOT democracy ('Super delegate democracy' to ensure the 'mob' don't win) being pushed by the so called Democratic Party I supported all my life; it meant ensuring Hillary got 'her turn' as though single candidate races backed by a complaint MSM is how to improve a government corrupted by lobbyists and backed by other wealthy interested 'experts'. As shown here
'The average John and Jane on the street is utterly incapable of understanding the ramifications of withdrawal from the European Union..There is a reason that public policy and economic policy is not set by..The average man or woman on the street. Lets elect subject matter experts and defer to them when complex questions ..arise.'
Sure it was these same experts who created the mess we are in but hey, they always know best even when proven demonstrably wrong (Iraq, Libya, the always getting it wrong polls). And who are little you to judge? So they attack the principles of a free press (Assange) because it is best if we are ignorant showing contempt for the very idea of democracy as 'OF the people, BY the people FOR the people. SHAME!
4
You capture well the great anxiety Americans feel for that nation, whose self-inflicted wound our President so lustily celebrated from his golf cart. It's to be noted, how the people of many more nations share the same trepidation for ourselves.
2
Is normality boring? It seems throughout the world that populations are craving disruption for disruption sake---is this the new normal? Like addictive behavior, do nations have to hit rock bottom before the attend a collective AAA meeting to put their countries back to normal. I long for the day of no drama Obama....when you focused each day on earning a living, raising children, and watching sunsets with your wife...Now each morning, wake up feeling like I am in the middle of a Mad Max movie.
4
My 2 cents: Boris Johnson is the British version of Trump - a dramatic and divisive demagogue.
5
“You can’t fix stupid, as my colleague Tom Friedman has observed.“ What a snotty condescending statement. Cohen has no idea what drives Brexit. Brexit may not be successful but those who support it also will not fail. The stalemate is likely to continue and the consequences may be even more far reaching and devastating. It is useless to blame the other side, as Cohen does. The key is to assess what you do wrong. And that’s what is totally missing in Cohen’s piece.
2
Well that was a good but depressing analysis of the situation in Britain.
My only thought is that, if its true that, "The center is weaker than ever before in Britain" then Britain WILL GET THE FUTURE IT DESERVES.
Come on! There is no way that ANY British Voter can claim that they weren't fully aware of the consequences of BREXIT.
Britain is a free Democracy. What prevented them from voting for a common sense candidate in the recent European elections? Indifference? Laziness? Stupidity? Weakness?
Get a grip Britain, The greatest Generation gave up their lives for Britain's future. If you can't be bothered to think things through then you deserve everything you get.
5
Brexit reminds me of the 1970s movement in Canada for Quebec to separate. Once economic realities settled in, the movement fizzled. Some people may still want to break away, but it won’t happen.
A second referendum is the obvious choice in a democratic society. Given the realities of Brexit that were not available at the time of the first vote, the second vote may be completely different. Over time, Brexit will become a stupid idea but stupid people with not so clear motives.
2
Come on, Britain. You can certainly do better than Boris "Donnie Wannabe" Johnson. Uugghh.
2
Sometimes you just have to rip a scab off. The people voted to leave so let democracy work instead of lamenting it’s demise.
1
Poor Boris! He has been scrambling up the greasy pole all his life. Principles have little say in his life, he has rotated from moderate to hard right and back, whatever stance propelled his career forward. Political allies have been stabbed in the back at will by Bojo, his helping hand could be transformed into a trip down the stairs in a fashion remarkable even for politicians. Now he has the chance to sleep in #10, the single driving principle of his life, and he will find that he only gets a three month lease on that tony flat and he will be evicted soon after he moves in.
1
The irony is that Brexit was fraudulently sold to the Brits ( really to the English) as the road to freedom from their lives as prisoners of Brussels. However, it will take forever to disentangle themselves. It will also be done in atmosphere of economic downturn, lives upended and bitterness. Plus ALL the problems they blamed on the E.U. will still be there to solve, but with diminished resources. How utterly stupid.
4
The article is nonsense, if you are American then don't believe a word of it.
1
I'm curious how much of this whole dumb conversation is driven by foreign propaganda
2
Christ on a cracker! Oh, Britain, what hath thou wrought?
Hercule Poirot's method is preferable in this case: to discover the truth, learn who benefits from the crime. Sowing chaos and appealing to xenophobic fears and other emotions are the time-honored (or -disgraced) methods of creeping fascism. It's happening in Britain and in the US.
265
@Carol
Who benefits? Putin!
26
Mr. Cohen portrays a Britain poised to descend into utter chaos, and I agree that it’s almost inconceivable that a prospering Democracy would allow itself to come to this place. But it has. Some manner of Brexit is baked into its future. A second referendum could bring the country to its senses, but the political will and players do no exist to pull off that exercise in common sense... All this should be a cautionary tale as to what can happen here if the nationalistic forces of hate and resentment and destruction be allowed to further infect our public discourse and institutions.
2
At last the Brits come to their senses and will elect Boris Prime Minister and he will put the bureaurats in Brussels in their place. Independence for Great Britain, now and forever.
18
@Bill
A bit vague, I'm afraid.
Great Britain is primarily a geographical term for the largest of the British Isles plus associated smaller islands. It excludes Northern Ireland and is not a political unit.
28
@Bill
Apparently Scotland, which is part of Great Britain, doesn't want your version of independence.
Independence for the Flyover States, now and forever.
33
@Bill
Unfortunately the electorate does not get to decide whether Boris becomes PM. That is up to the Tory party.
Meanwhile, I got to vote for my region's Member(s) of the European Parliament Thursday.
15
These are dangerous times. Many countries are electing leaders who are unfit for office or worse. Echos of the early 20th century.
7
Yet another article from the NY Times which shows that Americans still fundamentally misunderstand why many in the UK voted (albeit narrowly) to exit the European Union. Back in 1975 we voted, by a large margin, to remain in the European Economic Community (which we had joined in 1975). The political aspects of the EEC (which became the EU) were never fully explained to the British people. Indeed, many pro-European British politicians openly declared that our membership would have no consequences for our political sovereignty. That, of course, was a blatant lie. Increasingly, over the last 40 years or so, the policy-making functions of the UK government and Parliament have been taken over by unelected bureaucrats at the European Commission. The European Parliament, which was not a part of the original EEC, is basically just a talking shop. It is the anti-democratic nature of the EU that drove many of us in the UK to vote to leave. Would Americans be prepared to tolerate a court established under NAFTA declaring an Act of the US Congress as null and void (as the European Court of Justice has frequently done with UK legislation)? Economics aren't everything. I would have thought that the phrase 'no taxation without representation' would resonate with our friends in the New World?
Stephen Hetherington
London, UK
9
On the bright side Cohen, you’ll be able to witness the unified Republic of Ireland and an independent Scotland in your lifetime, as well as the forming of country of little england.
5
The idea that a sovereign nation cannot exist on it's own but must be part of a greater conglomeration is utterly ridiculous and what's more, it goes against centuries of history. It's one thing to cooperate and enter into treaties that bring cross-border benefits but it's another to concede that, in this case, Britain will fall if it withdraws from the European Union. If anything, the last few years have shown the weakness and anti-democratic nature of the EU, as it allows member countries like Hungary and Poland to thumb their noses at democratic principles and impose neo-fascist governments on their citizens. So while the issue of the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is an issue that will require either conceding a hard border between the 2 OR some form of enhanced devolution between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, the IDEAL of reestablishing sovereignty as an independent nation which can manage it's own treaties and international obligations is one that I fully support and that the people of the UK voted for in a free and open referendum. Of course a democracy CAN "change it's mind" but WHY SHOULD THEY?
7
@ManhattanWilliam
"Centuries of history" are a noble thing, but don't necessarily reflect modern economic reality.
Your argument could be twisted into one that justifies states like Texas to leave the US. Sounds like a great idea, but would it really be better for Texas?
1
Is not matter of why should they, but have they.
From a macroeconomic and geopolitical perspective, with the win of Modi and the BJP party in India, and the contention in the South Pacific, if there is an uprising against Modi, China would have an excuse to gain more power. That is to say, this could be an election setting the stage for a power grab by China.
Call a new vote of the people with three choices:
1) No Brexit
2) Brexit with the best deal that can be negotiated with the EU, as certified by the PM
3) No deal Brexit.
Sometimes legislatures are simply unable to implement the will of the people.
2
I feel sad about all this. I am not fond of May, but I do feel a fondness for the British. The special relationship, I guess. The lingering feelings after we joined together to face the worst evil in history, in a war my dad fought in.
I remember the story of Roosevelt sending Hopkins to meet with Churchill first thing after Pearl Harbor. At the formal dinner when he arrived, at the time for toasts on both sides, Hopkins rose and quoted from the Book of Ruth,
“Whither thou goest I will go, and whither thou lodgest I will lodge. Thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God, even to the end.”
Churchill wept openly.
I sometimes wonder if Brits look across at us and feel sad.
7
The elections for parliamentary representation in the EU counsels is about to occur...It is premature to suggest that Brexit is not still the "will of the people".
It is ironic that pundits like Mr. Cohen are all for democracy until it requires that one of the tenets of his policies for the lives of others is threatened.
If I were a UK citizen, I would be embarrassed that my elected representatives created a situation where an honorable Prime Minister is reduced to resignation and tears for trying to deliver that for which The People voted convincingly.
If I were a UK citizen, I would be embarrassed that my elected representatives refuse to realize that what Ms. May has brought before them as a "deal" is the best that EU is willing to put on offer.
If I were a UK citizen watching Jeremy Corbyn dancing gleefully that the wicked witch of Downing Street is dead would be reminding him, that he has done as much, if not more, damage to his own party by his efforts politically assassinate his Prime Minister by proxy and, that should he be lucky enough to become a resident on that storied street, that he ,too, will be saddled with that which Brussels dictates the deal to be.
I feel sorry for my English friends who have been so fervent in their desire to their political structures over a straight-forward question of doing that which the body politic has said that it wanted done.
3
Given that most Labour voters are Remainers, Labour potentially could do well if it replaced Corbyn and went all-out as the Remainer Party. The problem with replacing Corbyn is that so many Labour MPs are associated with Blair-Brown "I'm cozy with the elite" policy that it appears that many ordinary party members think of Corbyn as the only possible Labour PM who cares about ordinary people. Is there anyone in Labour who could replace Corbyn and rebrand Labour as both a Remainer and a "care about the people" party? If not, Labour is in trouble. As for the Tories, now is when a large number of MPs need to show real spine to prevent the Conservative Party going the way of the Republican Party in the U.S. Give Tory Austerity policies since 2010, I wonder if there are more than a very few such Tory MPs? The two parties may well deserve to fall apart.
4
It appears its a common trait for people to follow a leader who points to someone else as the cause of their problems and is getting in the way of them being great again. Whether its a trade deficit or immigration of those not like them the leader finds those hot button issues that are too easy to understand and the evidence of all our problems. That declaring a war on that someone else and severing all relationships and building walls which all seem so simple to see will somehow make things better.
Americans hopefully are beginning to see the light that things aren't so simple and will have the opportunity in 2020 to make a change. the question is will the British have this same opportunity to reverse course before the die is cast on Brexit and their lives altered irrevocably.
3
“Intra Irish tensions over the European Union”?
This is very wide of the mark. There is a remarkable cross party consensus around support for the European Union in Ireland. The problem is English nationalism’s isolationist and rightward turn.
There are no intra Irish tensions on Europe. There are tensions between the Irish and the British on Europe.
8
@David
Yeah I didn't get that either. Northern Ireland voted to remain, and the (understandable) Irish freakout about the return of a hard border is a major part of what's hanging Brexit up.
1
All far messier than it needs to be. The UK should hard exit and open its doors wide to the EU with an offer of totally duty & tariff-free trade. Commerce continues. The Germans will continue to sell luxury cars and the Brits will continue to consume French food & Italian wine. Brussels keeps its nose out of British affairs. The EU was a colossal mistake that allowed recklessly managed countries like the PIGGS to enjoy the interest rates & stature of Germany.
1
But commerce will not continue both ways. The EU will not let in goods that do not meet its standards and regulations nor will it let key in services.
@Once From Rome you do understand the model you are pushing is against WTO rules and would completely decimate what is left of the UK car industry post Brexit? The EU and it's predecessors have kept the peace in Europe for nearly 80 years. How that could get chalked up as a "colossal mistake" and beyond the realms on inanity.
If they do vote again on the EU, they better have a plan to fix it. Without some sensible problem solving, the British will continue for decades to lob the issue back and forth.
This desire to return to an idealized past is what has the world in its present fix with radical groups pushing ugly solutions. In the last century we ended up wiping out the upheaval of the 19th century's massive social changes with world wars and economic deprivation fueled by nostalgia for the past. It would be nice if we could avoid that kind of a reset.
4
Can’t help thinking that if nothing else, Brexit illustrates the dangers of government by referendum.
Recently, in the wake of the failures of the New Jersey and New York legislatures to pass laws legalizing recreational marijuana, it was brought to my attention that all states that have legalized the drug have done so by referendum.
Indeed, it’s possible to think of Mitch McConnell’s refusal to consider Merrick Garland for the Supreme Court — declaring instead that the people should decide by choosing their preferred candidate in 2016 — as a form of abdication to referendum. (I know: since the winner received fewer votes than the loser my analogy is ironically imperfect.)
But in an era when political bipartisanship is all but unknown, referendums seem to me both reckless and inevitable. I guess the realities of federalism mean we Americans as a people will never be called upon to vote by referendum on something as cataclysmic as Brexit. Thank god for small favors.
1
Great response. People are elected to decide. That’s the referendum, not to give the decision back to voting machines. They abdicated.
if Boris gets in he will need to appeal to the lunatics who have swallowed the lies of The Daily Mail, The Sun, Express and other right wing papers who have brought us to this point. The country is now in a state of complete and utter division. This will be generational, though the demographics are against the white and grey haired Brexit crowd who hark for the 1950's and some twisted notion of a great Britannia ruling the waves. The younger generation are dead set against this and the revolt will only become stronger as Boris and his libertarian instincts destroy what is left of the UK economy. One example; wait till the NHS goes for sale to US health companies. The place will go on fire. It's not going to end well. At all.
9
"No more distressing moment can ever face a British government than that which requires it to come to a hard and fast and specific decision"
Barbara Tuchman
August 1914
146
@Bill F
(correction) The quote is from "The Guns of August".
6
@Bill F. Barbara Tuchman's book, "First Salute" reveals her understanding of the world.
The UK has been broke since WWI and the Brexit business just pushes them further into the abyss. Today young people in London are working two jobs just to afford a bed sit. Their best and brightest moved to NYC when I was there in the late 60's simply because life was more rewarding there. Their last great leader was Winston Churchill - sad to see their continued tail spin.
9
@Bill F.: Another favorite quote from Barbara Tuchman is:
"The power to command frequently causes failure to think."
Perhaps Brits are too analytic?
The quote is very applicable to the current White House resident, but I hope Boris Johnson lets intelligence rather than ego guide his decisionmaking.
3
The sun has set on the British Empire. Former occupied territories from the United States to India and China now dwarf their former masters. The seemingly inevitable self inflicted economic crippling the UK by way of Brexit may every well result in the splitting of the remaining forced marriages of Scotland and Ireland, leaving only Wales and Britain as the empire (little "e"). The British old guard can then proudly declare they have preserved the British cultural museum for future generations with a boy king and queen, a currency declared in pounds and measured in ounces and a border whose horizon is now measured by where the crow flies. God save the Queen.
3
The day after the Brexit vote I predicted that it would never happen because Parliament would never let it happen and I remain certain that the ultimate outcome will be that the UK remains part of the EU. Thank God. This is a lot of fuss about what will ultimately be a non-event, but it has already been a calamity keeping millions of British people in an unnecessary poverty imposed by a sad minority of the population.
It must be kept in mind what nearly a third of eligible voters didn't cast a vote in the Brexit referendum. 13 millions people voted with their feet and stayed home. So in a conservative country like the UK, when people are so unconcerned by the current situation that they don't participate in a vote, the only reasonable assumption is that their preference is for nothing to change.
The nonsense of Brexit is the nonsense of British politics generally - the rule of the simple plurality rather than a real majority. If 10 people stand for election in Britain then one of them can win a seat in Parliament with 11% of the vote. Other countries do it but in the majority of Commonwealth countries we have preferential systems which make "first past the post" systems like the UK look childish.
The Brexit referendum, due to the reality and value of inertia, should have required a two thirds majority in favour of Brexit to trigger exit. What would have happened if the Brexit majority was 4 voters instead of 4% of voters? If 2.1% more Remain voters had bothered, no Brexit!
4
The great story of the past four decades is the gradual erosion of a ruling class with enlightened self-interest.
They were captured by Thatcher and Reagan and drank a small state kool-aid. The resulting increased poverty, increased precariousness in employment, massive inequality, and obscene enrichment of that same ruling class speak for themselves.
The 2008 financial crisis and later the immigration crisis that the EU and UK failed so miserably to sort is evidence of the inability of the elites to incorporate wider interests in state planning than their short term pecuniary advantage *as a class*.
It's a total failure of elites.
When their failure is pointed out, the Reagan/Thatcher ideological defense mechanisms kick in and the tropes of personal responsibility, social Darwinism, and fascism are mobilized again.
And that's a beast they won't be able to contain.
117
I’ve always been bothered by the ‘God save the Queen’ saying... but with this guy in line for prime minister, it may be appropriate.
Jokes aside, I take no pleasure in seeing one of our closest nation-friends in worse predicament than us when it comes to who may be guiding the country.
1
The problem with snake oil salesmen is with the people who are eager to buy their elixir.
There would be no crisis had Cameron not swallowed the snake oil referendum. The EU is a vaccine against European nationalism, whose history was full of blood and soil.
We may see how well an un-vaccinated UK does on its own, when they try to draw on its "special relationship" with the US for a beneficial trade policy. They may find that the nationalist in the White House prefers a trade war and sets high tariffs on their exports.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot -- well the British, longing for the good old days of the sun never setting on the Empire, may shoot themselves in their pocketbooks.
Their only way out may be a second referendum, even though there never should have been a first.
3
Conservatives in the U.K. appear to have the same mission as their counterparts in the U.S.: protect the party at all costs, even to the significant detriment of national security and economic growth.
6
Economic growth has been accelerating under GOP leadership.
1
Sherlock Holmes and comedian Ron White (you cant fix stupid) explain Brexit conundrum....priceless
2
The Brexit mess is the result of direct democracy’s incompatibility with a legislature based on compromise. Here you have the people vote to leave, but the legislature would not do what the people said to do. Think about this when you want the electoral college eliminated and our President elected by popular vote.
2
We have our Bernie, the UK has their Boris. They even look alike: Plus both are lacking in intelligence and morals.
That said, I agree with commenters here that clearly state the effect the Murdoch's have on the US, UK, and Australians: Undermining in many ways the desire for most of us to have a civil society. Their tabloid approach to news and information with their media empire reaches many who can't discriminate, or think critically. National Enquirer on steroids.
The 1st Amendment in the US protects them as it does Facebook and Twitter who distribute false info, e.g. fake video on Pelosi, and hate tweets from trump. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.
What's the solution? God knows. Brexit is an ongoing nightmare as is Trump's corruption.
5
@Harold
You can call Bernie many things, but "lacking in intelligence and morals" are not among them. You seem to be confusing him with Trump.
2
British democracy has been undermined by the same nefarious forces that brought Trump to power and convulsed other European countries with a toxic blend of nationalism and xenophobia. While we can rightly point an accusing finger at Russia, we should remember that this is no Red Scare, this is a transnational kleptocracy with members in Westminster and Washington, as well as in Moscow. Their strategy is simple, but effective: infiltrate democratic institutions and then run them to ruin. Eventually--and the day is coming soon--they will shrug and say democracy simply does´t work. with the implied message that mafia states do.
475
@Bob Chisholm
I am old enough to remember the Cold War. I always thought we would win. I held no confidence for a hot war- a Pyrrhic victory at best- but, given the struggle between democracy and authoritarianism I never faltered in my belief that democracy would win. Until now. I think you have well described what has changed between now and the 70's and 80's. Now the forces of authoritarianism have economic ties worldwide- even here in the U.S. We have Trumps and political leaders whose economic allegiance to oligarchs and dictators is much stronger than allegiance to their own countries and democracy.
108
@Bob Chisholm...
Sorry, Bob, it has been undermined by the steady and stealthy extinguishing of political freedoms by un-elected bureaucrats who have seized on the unwillingness of the legislatures to involve themselves in the business of running a political enterprise.
The People are tired of the deference that the Deep Staters, no matter what "state" to which their allegiance is pledged, demand.
6
@The Owl
According to 538, Trump has an approval rating of 42% and a disapproval rating of 54%. So when you refer to ¨the people¨, I get the strong impression that you can only mean white, conservative ones.
41
In reading articles in the US press, and these comments, it always surprises me how little understanding there is about the history of the UK's engagement with European institutions, and how little is understood about the level of unaccountability and low level corruption within the EU, and the sheer amount of money that the UK has put into EU coffers. Between 2000 and 2017 the UK gave the EU around £122 billion more than it received in return, once you factor in inflation. If you don’t factor in inflation it amounts to around £109 billion over the 17 years.
The UK’s net EU contribution is larger than 26 EU nations combined (all but Germany). The question of what we receive in return for this is at the heart of the reason many chose to leave.
Far from being an ineffectual small state, the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world and will cope well enough once we leave.
It was always a fractious and bitter marriage, and not surprisingly a messy and contentious divorce.
82
Less than 10bn a year for unhindered access to the biggest market in the world and its further development. That’s a small contribution given the benefit UK pulls out. But I hope for the Brexiters, the new trade agreements with Färöer Islands, Palestine and not to forget Pacific Islands will cover all the drawbacks of their decision.
122
@Les Jack
These figures are inacurate and do not take into consideration the "rebate"s thet the UK gets.
And anyway the total amount of the EU budeget represents aproximately 1% ( one) of the total spending by the EU members! So the cost to them, including the UK is negligebable; The "savings" that the UK by leaving the EU. What are about 20 billions a year to a yearly budget of more than a thousand billions?
The EU is at present more like a club, than a company.
You pay to be a memeber and benefits of free pass for merchandise and people, for investment in various projects, including some in more modest countires in order to facilitate life in Europe.
The creation of a single market ( even without the benefits of a "closer union which was the original goal and even with possible dsifunctionments in Brusssels), still brings much more benefits to all participants that their "contribution"
But of course, each country is free to make choices.
And if going "alone" is prefered, why not.
Some people prefer to divorce, whatever the consequences...
56
@Les Jack The main reason why some regions of the UK (London and Southeast) have done well over the last three decades was that the UK was the springboard into the EU for foreign companies, with the advantage of American (once known as English) as the lingua franca of the world. Most of the rest of the UK, bypassed by the phenomenon, has been sinking into increasing dereliction. Brexit will not improve that.
Car makers are freezing investment or leaving. Financial companies are leaving. And we are still in the EU. Once the break is final, the exodus will become unstoppable, but people like you will feel great, free at last.
114
What about a referendum where the Brits are asked if they want another vote on Brexit? If you have a majority of YEAS, then you have your answer: no Brexit
They have tried everything else, why not try this?
330
A referendum on whether to have a referendum? I like that idea. But determining the precise question to be asked, that could be tricky, the source of much disagreement, a matter on which no consensus can be reached. Should there be a referendum on the referendum on the referendum?
12
@Welcome Canada,
Brilliant!
The original referendum should have had compulsory voting, given it's great importance.
Britain's practice of voting on a weekday (as also in the U.S.) and not a weekend effectively disenfranchises those who just can't vote during working hours (although I note that postal votes are allowed, but not personal pre-polling).
Makes me wonder if the weekday elections are a hangover from the old days when the Tories tried to discourage the working class to vote.
25
@Welcome Canada
Because the Brexiteers know, in their heart of hearts, that their victory was a fluke.
33
Lots of retired people from Great Britain live in Spain and other warm, sunny places. Even Sting lives in Italy. What will happen to people originally from the British Isles who have strategically placed themselves elsewhere, if Brexit goes ahead? What about British born university students who have availed themselves of the opportunity to study in Universities in Europe? What will happen to the restaurant workers and chefs from Europe who have transformed London, Manchester and other British cities into places where locals and visitors can enjoy truly delicious, international dining? What happens when all of those banking and finance jobs leave London? Why on Earth are the English people doing this?
635
@Luchino
In February 2016 I spent 20 days in Spain. Who in their right mind would ever separate themselves from Spain. In my mind it’s one of the greatest places in the world to be. I loved ever inch of it and ever single second I was there. I wish I was there now. And I met quite a few Anglo’s of one stripe or another, enjoying the same. God bless those pagans.
123
@Tim Kane . Maybe one of the 15% or so folks in Spain who are unemployed would be out of their "right mind" to separate themselves.
14
@Luchino-What will happen to Britain when more doctors and nurses are forced to leave as well as companies already setting up shop elsewhere?
Where Brexit Hurts; Nurses and Doctors Leaving London
"In the year following the referendum, almost 10,000 quit the N.H.S. The number of nurses from other European Union countries registering to practice in Britain has dropped by almost 90 percent."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/21/world/europe/nhs-brexit-eu-migrants.html?
80
How does a second referendum end the Brexit problem? The first referendum was sold as a one-off, final query to determine the will of the people once and for all. If the second reverses that decision, it certainly makes proceeding forward easier in some ways (no Brexit negotiations), but it very powerfully undermines the credibility of the political system as a whole. One objection to the EU has been that it is an elitist organization that discredits the wishes of the people it is supposed to represent. After promising to accept the results, for the UK leadership then to organize a second referendum simply validates one of the main reasons the UK voted to leave the EU. The precipitous rise of the Brexit party to become the most powerful voting block in the UK confirms that this discontent with how the EU works is alive and angry. It won’t be weakened by a second referendum. Alternatively, what happens if the second referendum re-affirms what the first one showed? How does that help? Except to affirm that when an election doesn’t go the way it’s “supposed to”, leaders will undermine the result. Independent Scotland anyone?
30
@Peyton Hurt
If the EU is so elitist why not try to fix it from within? The British have never tried but prefer to behave like a spoiled kid at a birthday party who storms out because he doesn't like the games they're playing. The Brexit party has no policies - not a single one - and when asked its leader declares that he'll decide them after being elected. How reckless is that? And it would be the third referendum - not the second - and the first one was won with a two-thirds majority, not a miserly 2%.
19
@Peyton Hurt When the referendums on Quebec's separation from Canada were held in 1976 and 1995, there was never any doubt that the question would be put to voters a second time after the terms of separation had been worked out. It was understood that a first vote is primarily emotional, while a second, held in the clear light of day, was more likely to be a rational choice. Only in a second referendum can citizens make an informed decision. A second referendum on Brexit is essential, especially because the Leave campaign was full of lies and pipe dreams. Only now are we beginning to understand what a post-Europe Britain would look like.
45
@Peyton Hurt The two most-repeated selling points for Brexit were:
350,000,000 pounds would be returned to the National Health service every week instead of going to the EU - a claim that Boris Johnson is now being sued for making as he repudiated it within a week of the referendum as an obvious lie, and
An end to immigration from Europe, which can't be done without closing the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, a move that would precipitate a return to The Troubles. In addition, most immigration into the UK - the poor, brown kind that the Leavers campaigned against a la Trump - comes from Commonwealth countries, which is protected entry under British law.
It has also become painfully clear that the 'easy, simple exit', with great financial rewards to be reaped, was another lie. Scotland, with 62% of voters wanting to stay in the EU, is likely to hold another vote on leaving the UK. The all-important banking sector in London has been eroded by moves to the Continent, investment has declined and skilled EU citizens like doctors and engineers have left the country.
A second referendum could easily be justified given the first was based on lies.
44
So the odds are that formerly great Britton will get its own version of trump in Boris Johnson.
Both men are mentally challenged in understanding world affairs, both think nothing of lying through their teeth...and both support hair styles that are deplorable.
8
@Paul P.
It still is Great Britain in the geographical sense. Go look it up.
Great Britain's went into WW1 as the global superpower, emerged as a 'great power' and has been in decline ever since. The mighty empire deserted us. The once significant post-war military shrunk to a sort of territorial defence force; industry and manufacturing have withered away.
Yet somehow we've been OK, sustained by the 5th largest economy in the world - based on banking and financial services (with a good seasoning of arms manufacture, money laundering and state sponsored tax evasion), punching above our weight whilst massaging that historic greatness like anything.
It's insane really; Brexit has trashed our reputation and our dignity and is hell bent on kicking away the economic props that sustained our illusion of greatness.
Ask a Breixter what we'll do now.. what we'll make, what we'll eat, how we'll get by and you'll be accused of being a defeatist, a traitor. But you'll get no credible answers.
"You can't fix stupid"
You also can't proactively cure stupid's cousin: xenophobic, right wing populism.
All you can do is wait for the absolutely inevitable crash and then begin the recovery with what's left.
Ten years from now, 80% of Brits will swear to pollsters that they voted for Remain and that the disaster was not their fault.
They will be joined in that self-serving fantasy by the majority of the 63 million people who voted for Trump who will absolutely deny ever supporting that ignorant, authoritarian who caused all that destruction and the 100 million who couldn't bother to vote who will swear they voted for what's her name.
11
well said
1
Its unfortunate that Cohen continues to associate anti-semitism with Corbyn and the Labor Party in deliberate attempts to link legitimate criticism of Israeli treatment of Palestinians with the anti-semitism of nationalist parties across Europe. A general election in the UK would likely bring a Labor Party to power bringing some semblance of normality back to the UK.
5
@Sipa111 With Corbyn in power it is extremely unlikely except in the fond dreams of Dear Leader's most committed devoteés. And certainly not if the Labour leadership doesn't reverse its pro-Brexit stance (since their fence-sitting camouflage has now worn thin). Labour has been hemorrhaging long-term supporters thanks to the latter. At best there will be a hung Parliament and Labour will have to form a coalition.
I would feel sorry for the mess Britain has made of trying to manage a referendum decision that never should have been voted in if the US weren't undergoing its own stupidity.
What all these nationalist, Bannon-supported movements, first here, and now all over Europe have in common is this: fake news, largely promulgated by the very same Russia that fomented chaos here in America.
For a little man leading a 3rd rate economy and shrunken country, Putin has an outsize influence, putting his thumb on the scale for both Brexit and Donald Trump via disinformation campaigns..
Which should tell us that the terrain of power has shifted from battlefields to online social media campaigns that are increasingly so well designed that it's hard for even the most discerning to distinguish fact from fiction.
11
I’ve been saying for months: throw. Them. Out. And even better with Boris at the helm. Give them what they want. Just throw them out on their ears. No deal. Goodbye! Let the tiny little island in the North Atlantic wither away and die. It’s exactly what they deserve.
4
Isn't this really about open borders. Our friends in the UK talk about towns in the UK where Polish is the primary language. So close the border to immigration and keep everything else the same.....
1
Brexiteers remind me so much of American conservatives. They will repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot for the simple reason they don't want to be told "no."
6
This is a particularly depressing development. It is sad that the best the Tory party can offer is a bunch of clowns and cowards. The absence of real leaders in politics will be demise of our country.
Even more depressing is reading some of the other articles on NYT today, with various European public figures being boldened to express their racism transparently, e.g. the lady who said her place does not look like Europe anymore... It's not clear to me how this growing hate stops to be honest
2
My UK friends call him “Humpty Dumpty” but with him, they will all have a great fall. As we are falling on this side of the pond.
What is it about awful men and bad, bad hair?
7
'Corbyn, the man who has opened the floodgates for anti-Semitism in his Labour Party'
That is a blatant down right lie.
Jeremy Corbyn has fought against racism and for the exploited his entire political career.
Only those with a vested interest and on the far right believe that his sympathy for the Palestinian people is anti-semitic.
3
@dan When I read that comment about Corbyn's alleged anti-semitism I thought the same thing-that it was not true.. It seems if you are a progressive politician-Sanders in USA or Corbyn in England-establishment press types, who have a vested interest in the Status Quo, will do whatever they can to lie about the candidates positions and the reasons for them.
And in the dark corner, Vladimir Putin laughs and cannot believe how well his plan is working.
5
"With the lies now uncovered, the reality revealed". If memory serves, the lies and alternative reality were from Nigile Farage and Boris Johnson, who you predict will do well in the next election round. You can't fix stupid but, apparently, you can get them to vote in droves.
2
Johnson is the more polished version of Trump.
Let’s hope that Boris Johnson won’t succeed Theresa May as prime minister.
This foul-mouthed buffoon is unfit for high public office. He may have been a good laugh while he was the mayor of London.
But in later years as foreign secretary he became an embarrassment and a nuisance with his outrageous remarks. As a prominent Brexiteer, his mendacity did much harm to the country. His self-destruction is his own business, but he has no right to drag the country down with him.
European leaders are right about Johnson being a loathsome charlatan, a Trumpian peddler of EU lies.
6
Voter anger and disillusionment, fueled by hate-inducing political deception of puffy-skinned white schoolboys, is leading the once-sane western democracies into the toxic shock zone. Perhaps it was inevitable, but rage is often the result of political scheming for self-interested parties who care less about the collective good while their shell game is winning. Brexit always wreaked of, in UK's case, swamp-ophiles.
1
The Brits suffer from a scarcity of leadership. Farage, Boris and Jeremy are cruel jokes and lack vision. They hope for an Orban like surge of self punishing nationalism. The rot starts at the top and a new generation of spunk and mettle is needed. And the folks who voted for Brexit were fools, as their island will shrink into impotent irrelevance.
The only way out that I see is a second referendum; this time Brits voting with their brains and both eyes open.
3
To paraphrase P.J. O'Rourke - "Brexit; where two wrongs don't make a right...... and two rights also don't make a right."
Where do you start with The EU? Every place you poke your finger is rotten. Brexit is the same. Britons are just exchanging one set of dysfunctions for another.
1
Boris is the only one who can save that country
“Brink”? We got to chaos months ago. We haven’t had a functioning government since, I don’t know, January? Today was just May finally acknowledging that.
I wish this was a joke, but it isn’t. The wheels have long fallen off the clown car, the black hole of Brexit devours everything. The Far Right are resurgent, MEP candidates make rape jokes, milkshakes fly through the air and are decried as near “assassination attempts”, riots have kicked off when the Far Right visit some town to spread a bit of division, the police are non-existent, the homeless are growing in number, businesses are going, the NHS is on its knees, teachers are having to feed their pupils. It’s absolutely bonkers and quite scary. And No Deal amidst this will be a bomb going off, I guarantee it. People may maliciously talk of it now as the way forward, but ala Iraq in two years time no-one will own up to supporting it.
What a sick joke this all is. Now the great orange pachyderm is due to visit, make nice with loathsome Brexiteers and crow. Some stability would be welcome. Bah.
2
The great orange pachyderm (there was no need to insult the pachyderms) will offer a free trade agreement to Britain. And to form the Anglo-American Union. Will the UK be better off with a Union with the US or with Europe?
1
Endemic racism and greed getting off with the same narcissism leaving stains from Trump, or the same Johnson, everywhere.
2
Seems like Brexit was based on lies, very misleading campaigns and fake news. Now it seems you will have Boris Johnson, one of the makers of this as your leader. My understanding is all this was because the far right wanted to bring back those wonderful colonial days. I say go for it because you will be a great example for our 2020 election. If you crash and burn, as I suspect, it will help show trump and our far right for what they are, irresponsible wind bags.
3
I guess it’s comforting on some level to know that the Brits are at least as crazy as we Americans. Trump’s puppet master must be drinking champagne every day to celebrate attainment of his previously unimaginable goal of destroying the West without firing a shot. He couldn’t have done it without Dangerous Donald!
2
It was fhe supremely cowardly, ignorant and stupid Prime Minister David Cameron who was the baby daddy of the United Kingdom's Brexit catastrophe.
Rather than man- up and substitute his ideas, principles and values as the parliamentary leader of a majority in Parliament he foolishly asked the people for their opinion in a referendum. Without knowing how a majority of them would vote.
Democracy is impossilbly impractical in any siginficant size modern nation state. Thus representative democracies aka republics were born.
Divided limited different power constitutional republics of united states like America were followed by common and civil law multiple party parliamentary forms. And one- party autocracies proclaiming the ' virtues' of democracies and republics also came into being.
2
Idealists sold a delusion to the British voters with thoughts like self determination and independence buzzing like cherubs over a landscape with a pink haze over it.
The pink haze blew out to sea and reality set in. A huge fraction of the British economy depends on trade with the EU and the idealists had no plan as to how to deal with that fact.
I'd react in horror except that such delusions sold by populist idealists who turned out to be autocratic thugs has been more the norm than the exception. They sell platitudes to a gullible populace in order to gain power and then do as they will.
Trump, Hitler, and Chavez/Maduro are all examples.
How to avoid it? one can only hope that the basic Constitutional system is robust enought to thwart the idealists and recover from the damage after the pink haze blows out to sea and reality sets in.
It seems rather clear for Britain that another Brexit vote is the most direct route to avoiding catastrophe. Yet the populace seems to prefer Boris Johnson and more delusion to the awful truth.
2
I was in an airline lounge in LA as the Brexit vote unfolded. A famous British person was watching it next to me, head in hands; he resorted to swearing, at the screen and at his fellow Brits, who voted so fecklessly. I was watching it in surprise and unhappiness, but it didn’t really hit me then, and I naively assumed it was a one-off fluke.
Six months later, the US followed suit in its election.
Yep, ya can’t fix stupid.
1
I hope May has destroyed whatever remnants are left of "gender" politics, for England and the world. Apparently Thatcher wasn't enough.
The myth that women "leaders" can't be as mediocre as men is hopefully and finally dead and buried. R.I.P.
Trump has"ominously proclaimed" that Boris Johnson "has what it takes", eh? Meaning support from Putin I suppose.
2
" Dieu et mon droit " written in the Motto on the stand from which Theresa May spoke.
What does it mean?
Why is it in French ?
A second referendum would unlikely deliver an overwhelming victory for remain or leave. Indeed, 'you can't fix stupid'. The stupidity was not the outcome of the referendum, but the referendum itself.
Between these fools in Great Britain and the trumpian fools here, Putin sits back and smiles and thinks “ this was so much easier than I could ever have imagined. Thank you Mark Zuckenburg for this non lethal weapon.”
1
“Corbyn, the man who has opened the floodgates for anti-Semitism in his Labour Party”. What a ridiculous, inaccurate statement.
1
Brits deserve a "do-over" as do we. Trump would not have won were it not for Russian interference. We should do the election a second time with Hillary in place as a candidate. Wanna bet he'd lose big time?
Of course, we can't do that, and maybe Britain can't either still it seems a shame that the English were manipulated and lied to by the likes of Johnson as are the people here by Trump.
Indeed, there is no cure for stupid. It seems to be more contagious than measles.
Brexit is the funniest thing since the time the boss hit hisself in the mouth with a hammer.
He was knocking apart an old wooden railing...
1
...the unscrupulous, ramshackle, flip-flopping, dissembling...
Mr. Cohen are you sure your words were meant for Boris, and not Donald? The world "is" really turning upside down, and there seems to be no end in sight.
Oh well, maybe 2021 will see a little bounce back to civility, but in the meantime.... God help Mother Earth!
1
Really Mr. Cohen, Sherlock Holmes? The best you can do? Next you will be using Downton Abbey as a source of insight. It’s cheap and easy as is your analysis. Sweeping and simplistic set up to calling for a 2nd referendum. New York Times can do better. Intra-Irish tensions. Please explain.
Whomever took that photo of Boris Johnson is a genius.
If Roger Cohen could only acknowledge that it's Jeremy Corbyn's domestic politics which makes him unpalatable to life-long neo-liberals in the Tony Blair mode, we could at least have a debate over what's worse: Brexit or a government which at least claims to want small measure of social justice.
But of course that's not allowed. So bring out the charges of anti-Semitism.
I guess we should care, Roger. But we’ve got our own crowd-sourced idiocy to hold our focus. All in all, it’s worse, both in scale and danger. Back when Hitler was about to eliminate England, over here there was almost no interest in even sending some decrepit destroyers for their self-defense, let alone all the rest of it. We don’t understand the political dynamics, the structure of their government, or any of the significant issues, which is sad considering that we theoretically can understand their language.
So I accept your analysis, which to my uninformed consciousness says that the country has really stepped in it this time and hasn’t got the brains to wipe it off. Ok, but my disconnect from the details also lets me hypothesize that the island will not sink into the sea, plague will not decimate (except for all the perishable medicine that may be scarce), and, they do seem to be some sort of democracy that has the capability of, given sufficient pain, cleaning their mess without having to declare war on Ireland, Scotland or France.
1
Glad to not live in the UK. They’re doomed...
Corbyn is not anti-Semitic - it is very irresponsible to keep saying that. Being anti-Israel is not the same as being anti-Semitic. I don't think the British are stupid enough to believe this American-Israeli propaganda. They are more worried about Corbyn's 'socialism' So Corbyn may not have as much difficulty in beating Boris as many Americans would believe.
Boris Johnson IS chaos.
Ever seen him to an interview?
Seriously, someone make sure he leaves the cocaine at home.
1
When Trump has his first official meeting with PM Johnson, will he finally take the opportunity to show Johnson how to use a comb?
1
Think Trump and Johnson, a native New Yorker, use the same hairdresser?
2
When a friend ventured that the two leading candidates for the presidency would be Hillary and Trump four years ago, I did not shout 'Who would vote for him'! But glancing at Tabloid News, which carries an element of truth, a red flash from a controversial fact-finder pointed to the Rust-Belt States.
Recently when asking a British acquaintance from the working-class, if the ascension of Trump was linked to the possibility of a Johnson take-over, he went into denial. Apparently one had nothing to do with the other, and although it was not quite oranges and gooseberries, the Brits were too sophisticated to enjoy the antics of a buffoon.
Trump is still regarded as a figure of fun by a great majority of British, and We the Fools who elected him. That's right, we all get thrown into the same crock pot on these events, a boiling one that can set the house on fire.
Our discombobulated president, a master of showmanship, is right to acknowledge that Johnson has 'what it takes' to get on famously with 'I, Trump', and this is no time to laugh.
If America has set a poor example to the United Kingdom, it might take the fighting Irish to come in with 'Oh, hark to the big drum calling, Follow me - Follow me home!'.
'Impossible' is not a word recognized by the French, and some of the pro-Brexits appear to be reliving 'The Darling Buds of May', where a big bait awaits their alliance if not loyalty.
1
The entire political establishment, globally, is having a serious crisis of leadership. The unchecked rise of stupidity will, if not addressed, call into question democracy itself and the future of civilization. We are living now in world of international trade and peace producing prosperity and civility all around the world. There is a general absence of war and conflict never before seen in history. Ancient foes are now major trading partners. You would have to be extremely stupid not to understand this new world of triumphant success. Yet voters elected a blond bonehead to reside at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and are like to do the same at 10 Downing. Intelligent belief in world peace and international progress and unity is now flag waiving, sloganeering stupidity and this generation's children and grandchildren will suffer and die as a result.
"You can't fix stupid". Or xenophobic. Or, let's just say it, racist. The image that comes across the pond is of a nation of folks, most of whom want all the goodies conferred by free flowing commerce, but none of the burdens of immigrants.
Where is the article giving the opposing opinion?
2
"You can't fix stupid," pretty well sums what is happening in the US and the UK.
When all the evidence unequivocally shows you are heading in the wrong direction and that the claims for Brexit were built on lies, it takes a special stupidity (and arrogance or perhaps hatred) to continue down that path, but yet we are watching it in real-time, with Brexit and Trump supporters.
1
@max du pont: it shocks me when I venture out of Central London. Seeing the depravation of austerity, poverty, neglect, xenophobia... Shocking! Yet the government recently dismissed the UN report. Shame
People dying in the streets being eaten by dogs and starving children.
You wouldn’t believe it and shouldn’t.
“However improbable that a normally prudent nation would vote for self amputation......” and yet the USA voted Donald Trump as president. How ironic!!!
How libelous to say that Jeremy Corbyn has somehow allowed antisemitism in the Labour Party. The whole "scandal" was invented whole cloth to discredit the left wing of the party. Labour has fought for a century to defend Jews from antisemitism. It's part of the party's DNA. If any party has a "Jewish Problem", it's on the right.
Shame on you.
1
Nice work, Boris Johnson
(and Donald Trump and Steve Bannon, for that matter).
Sell the people a flamethrower,
and then double over chubbily laughing
when some unhinged folks
are just dumb enough to follow your nihilistic lead
and burn it all down.
2
Never has a great nation like the UK continued to pursue such a foolish goal on the basis of one very flawed referendum. The Conservative Party’s adherence to it is not only absurd it is suicidal.
Just change course and end Brexit. Rejoin Europe. It is called reality and prosperity! Please no Boris Johnson. He is an ideological idiot!
Just what the UK needs now....a wannabe DJT
1
I am really surprised that you aren’t blaming Israel for the English Brexit Fiasco. How unusual for you !
Stephen Fry - Oh where art thou?
Boris = Bolton but with the funny hair on top !
One final irony. May herself is said to be a Remainer. The British are trying as hard as they can to shoot themselves in the foot but can't even agree on how to do it.
Mr. Roger Cohen,
I am deeply glad that the whole world now is easily able to view the contempt you have for the concept of government by the consent of the governed and that the New York Times is willing to print such views.
"The impossible, in this case, means Brexit." So because one Remain-supporting Prime Minister thoroughly botched the withdrawal negotiations with the EU, the logical conclusion is Brexit is impossible?
"No matter that evidence of the negative impact of Brexit accumulated daily..." Slight problem here, sir. Brexit has not happened. That is kind of what your article is about: Brexit not happening.
"... slower growth, lower investment, lost banking jobs, factory closures..." It is interesting how you forgot to mention that the unemployment rate in the UK is at a 44-year low and that growth has ticked up to 0.5%, which when compared to the rest of Europe, is not bad at all.
"There is no parliamentary majority for any form of Brexit. You can't fix stupid, as my colleague Tom Friedman has observed." What a fantastic way to end an article filled with disgusting insults and obvious falsehoods. With this statement you have made clear your profound lack of faith in the British people and your reverent glorifying of the political class. I cannot think of another piece of writing that more perfectly explains why there is such strong global growth in the populist-conservative movement as we speak, so for this, I must sincerely thank you.
Rob Farber
3
Insult certainly has swamped argumentation on the NYTimes op-ed page. (Well, not only here.) I guess we'll find out what can be accomplished by ridiculing Boris Johnson some more.
2
Boris has an obsession with Winston Churchill and believes he is the new Churchill who is to save Britain from disaster. The only problem with the theory is that the disaster facing Britain then was Hitler, while the disaster facing Britain now is the man most responsible for Brexit. Namely: Boris
2
Brexit was always a rock to be thrown at all the grievances and discontent caused by the austerity program of the Tories
blamed on the EU. It is a vehicle to make some rich and powerful while the commoner be damned. I know for certain that many votes for Brexit came from the religious right who saw
Brussels as a godless bureaucracy.
1
A multiple-choice referendum ballot backed up by precise information about the alternatives could have given Parliament advice about how to move forward with or without the EU. Instead the British public had to respond yes-no up-down on a ballot supplemented with constantly streaming fake news. Now MPs have nothing but bad alternatives. Minimally, the voters should oust the Tories who created this mess.
1
As much as I despise Johnson and Farage for cynically selling a false promise, I would very much like to see Johnson as PM. At least the public can see, once and for all, what a spoiled, bumbling idiot he really is. For once, let the populists own their false claims.
117
@RS
A key question will be what happens when BoJo the Clown really has to stare into the abyss of no-deal Brexit. We are talking food and medicine shortages, civil unrest, gridlock on the motorways, violence in Ireland, credit rating downgrades, and that's just for starters. We are also talking about getting hundreds of new laws passed in Parliament ahead of time, each one of which will need a majority.
May turned green at the sight but would not acknowledge publicly just how weak and limited HMG's options really were and resorted to gibberish instead.
What will Boris do? Or whoever else succeeds May for that matter.
17
@RS
You mean like getting Trump to be President so we can bear witness to his ignorance and idiocy?
31
@RS
I think we have already seen what a 'spoiled, bumbling idiot he really is' when he attempted to be Foreign Secretary, a laughable and pathetic performance that seriously damaged Britain's reputation abroad.
22
This is Britain’s last chance to escape from under Big Brussels’ thumb. If it misses this chance it will one day end up in the same predicament Taiwan is with Big Beijing today.
2
@God
I always thought that Taiwan broke away from mainland Communist China in 1949 and has been suffering the consequences ever since!
That’s all you need, Boris the Clown in charge. You have my sympathy , see you in the bread line.
6
May will be exonerated. The idea that the UK can get a better, or different, deal has been shot down by the EU repeatedly. No amount of bluster by the likes of Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage will change that. The alternatives of a No Deal Brexit or no Brexit are worse, politically and financially, for the UK. They can and should be in control of their own destiny without being totally cut off from the EU and May’s deal is the closest they will come to that.
8
Recent Labor and Tory discussions had detailed-out many nut and bolt considerations behind the various options beyond a hard Brexit crash-out. But they failed to agree on a process to frame them and vote on them in Parliament. A comprehensive set of clear options was priority one. Pick one in a ranked voting preference process. Then have a separate vote to bring it up or not before the people. Stay in the E.U. or take this option.
So close. But the MP’s political machinations and maneuvers for “power” got in the way.
The media should have done more analysis and clearly presented it in a sustained way to the voters. Less hair splitting analysis on what scheming was going on in the pol’s minds.
Brexit is the last gasp of the British Empire and Boris Johnson is its Nero.
3
As with Trump, with Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage leading the British, what could go wrong? Everything. Hopefully another referndum will convince enough Brits to come to their senses and abandon Brexit. If they don't, like our Midwest farmers, unemployed coal miners and all the other MAGA-hatted rubes who voted fror Trump, they will deserve what they get.
12
Well, this moves a united Ireland forward by about five years.
6
This is a larger issue than just Brexit. The EU started as a customs union for economic integration. Over the years it has evolved into an organization somewhat akin to the US Federal government, an all powerful bureaucracy dictating policy to the member states. And there are many others besides the English who chafe at their power. However, the Brexit effort was quixotic, as the globalists were never going to allow it, as demonstrated in this chaos.
3
Although she was a Remain supporter (feebly) before the referendum, May insisted on honoring the referendum result by pushing for Brexit and refused a rethink in the form of a second referendum. The people voted and we must respect their wishes, regardless of how they were lied to by Boris and Nigel and manipulated by Putin. I wonder if she would have supported the public vote on a question even more obviously self-destructive than Brexit, like a referendum proposal giving everyone a minimum annual wage of, say, 80,000 pounds.
5
Hope David Cameron is happy about his clever idea to put Brexit to a vote.
6
I used to care about the UK, watching the train wreck that has been the last three years, and being a descendant of Irish forced to emigrate during the potato genocide,I no longer do.
The right knows they would lose a referendum, they claim no do-overs, but the referendum was a do-over of the initial vote fifty years ago.
They are getting what they deserve,and watching Northern Ireland is a joy. They should just bring the colonists home to England.
Boris is a piece of work.
2
The EU leadership is also foolish. Their arrogance and threatening negotiating position combined with British voter stubborness has led to this crisis. All the EU had to do was show respect to prime minister David Cameron when he made some very moderate requests between 2013 and 2016 concerning the very unfair freedom of movement rules that were swamping Britain with Eastern European workers who were entitled to full benefits (entitlements). Cameron was NOT addressing international migration only internal EU migration. The EU should have embrassed Theresa May and sought a compromise but instead embarrassed her. Plenty of blame to go around.
4
They should have stayed in and led Europe, but what do I know.
1
Theresa May’s political miscalculations and recalcitrance may have exacerbated the intractable problem she inherited, but the predicament of Brexit will remain regardless of which of her own Party’s reactionaries succeed her as Prime Minister.
The United Kingdom and the member states of the European Union desire the economic advantages of a unified geoeconomic entity while maintaining control of migration and national identity. This is what is driving the surge of nationalist populism in countries such as Hungary, Poland, Austria, and Italy.
The new leader needs to confront this impasse head on, otherwise they are headed for the same fate as May.
5
I’m afraid they are stuck with it. Who gets to decide that the results of the second referendum are the “real” results versus the first referendum? After agreeing with the first referendum with the firm intent of carrying it out, how do you tell the British people that the referendum was non binding?
I certainly would have loved a do over with trump, because of the Russian interference, but that was not possible, in a democratic society.
Perhaps we and the UK have something in common, in that we need to hit rock bottom, and then build our countries up again, in a positive direction. A painful lesson for both.
2
Appears the British lion has morphed into the shrinking violet.
With Theresa May's imminent departure ending the soft "Brexit" option, while the hard "Brexit" looking the only possibility, unless cancelled out by a second referendum vote or the snap general election, the UK will neither be the UK in literal sense nor will it ever be in a position to influence the international affairs and global finance the way it has as a member of the European Union. The May's successor be it John Boris or someone else can only be expected to further add to the "Brexit" impasse and a drift in the British politics.
2
Merry little England is shrinking and only a referendum can save it. Vote again. Sometimes life is about second chances.
7
Perhaps the US and Britain, among western nations, need China to lead the world in technology, economics, and protection. We, clearly, cannot manage ourselves. The two major western democracies are certainly making a great case against democracy.
19
@Anthony You believe that the Chinese, with their one party state, surveillance cameras tracking every citizen, army of censors policing what is allowed to be said and discussed on the internet, and massive re-education / concentration camps for Muslims, are making a far stronger case?
The fact that several other people recommended your comment seems to be making a greater case against democracy, if you ask me.
3
It is clear that agreements furthering free trade between the various European countries are hugely beneficial, these are the European version of NAFTA. It is less clear that political integration is necessary to make them work. There is no need for Ontario to join the USA to enjoy a vibrant economy. The free trade part of the EU project is long done, the EU is now moving on to the political integration part. Britain is somewhat clumsily trying to hold on to the free trade benefits while opting out of the further political integration parts. This may be impossible, the EU has no wish to let the UK succeed as it would trigger a wave of copycats, but it doesn’t seem like an irrational desire. The US analog would be to think of important legislation being passed in Quebec and court cases tried in Monterrey as a prerequisite for NAFTA membership.
Britain is now facing the problem of deciding how to balance the clear economic benefits of EU membership vs the equally clear democratic deficit associated with EU membership. This problem was not brought to the fore during the Referendum and has been completely ignored during May’s disastrous premiership. The two sides shout past one another, Remainers focus exclusively on economic benefits and Brexiteers clamour for National Sovereignty. Neither side wants to recognise the nuances associated with leaving vs remaining.
6
If you take the long view for the UK and the rest us (read as: "U.S. AU, EU, etc.:) Boris would be the best thing - as would a hard exit. No doubt there would be short term pain, including supply chain issues and job migration out of the UK.
However, the longer-term benefit would be the exposure of the lies and the danger of populist leaders playing on emotions. By extension, here would be a lesson in the value of integrity in our leaders.
3
@FF totally agree. The zealots in the Brexit community will have to feel the consequences of their thinking and actions. If if it revoked they will cry blue murder forever. Unfortunately though the sane people who understand this is the height of idiocy will need to suffer to. No doubt the right wing press will vilify there EU even more for not giving the spoilt Brexit children their "cake and eat it deal". What remains to be seen is how many of them swallow that line and how many will understand it was stupidity in the first place...
@FF
I don't think doing stupid, and accepting stupid outcomes as a means of highlighting how stupid choices should be avoided is the right choice. Britain was misled by locals supported by foreign interests, like Russia, seeking to weaken western democracies and the EU. It is their only way of slowing the divide and migration of former satellite nations to the west. But alas, it will not be enough in the end. The desire for freedom will triumph over the forces of authoritarianism and failed economics.
"a 46-year membership in a union of a half-billion Europeans that has brought it prosperity and influence" and PEACE!
But all Boris has to do to exit without a deal, which is exactly what he says he wants to do, is nothing. If nothing is done in Parliament and the October deadline comes and the British government does not ask the EU for an extension, it is over.
To stop this, Parliament would have to get its collective act together, in defiance of the government, and reverse Article 50. Given its demonstrated inability to agree on anything, this seems like a tall order.
6
De Gaulle famously said about France, "How can you govern a country with 243 different types of cheese?".
Brexit shows that having just ONE type of food (fish'n'chips) doesn't make things any easier!
15
Yes we only have fish and chips. Breakfast lunch and dinner. I’m about to have some now.
@Prof Dr Ramesh Kumar Biswas
Didn't you know that Chicken Tikka Masala has overtaken fisn n'chips as the "national" dish?
1
The sun has set on the British Empire, and some, turning the electric light of nationalist nostalgia (or maybe the candles), believe that their sovereignty will be solved by becoming an island nation again.
As to Scotland, as mentioned in the piece, I think a lot of voters preferred independence, and the Welsh people I know are loathe to be considered “British” or “English”. So much for a unified isle. (Never mind that pesky Irish dotted line.)
So, back to the England of the Middle Ages, independent but still in need of the network of other peoples to survive. And they won’t be able to conquer this time.
15
@FedUp I think you may be correct. Arrogance, nostalgia, and poltiical ambition may result in a significant decline in Britain's economy and its role in global affairs.
2
Maybe, just maybe, economic progress is not the most important thing in life, and the public is not willing to pay the price for economic progress. And the price is losing national identity, sovereignty, freedoms, etc. Exhibit one: Venezuela. They rather have a broke economy than abandon socialism. They are happier being socialists than having economic prosperity.
1
Spot on. Brexit isn’t about wealth, it’s about something much more nebulous.
1
Boris Johnson is the personification of arrogance, foolhardiness, cognitive dissonance and blind ambition. He delights in appearing scruffy, hoping that his maverick demeanour will attract disenchanted voters for the same reasons they gravitated towards Trump. Image is everything, substance be damned.
There are grave similarities between Johnson and Trump> Neither is a mad genius. Both are simply mad.
63
@Hamid Varzi
Mad, yes, and have attracted the support of Murdoch and autocrat gangsters around the world. We won’t rid ourselves of the former til something is done about the latter.
3
Putin and his pal Farage created Brexit to TRASH Britain. Putin uses Trump to trash USA. We're screwed with corrupt Trump!
22
The second referendum already happened: the EU elections.
Only those voting for Farage’s Brexit Party really want out, so if he got the absolute majority, then Brexit should go ahead immediately.
If not, then clearly not enough people felt strongly enough for it and the madness should be canceled.
We will know tomorrow night.
6
One could equally well state that only those who voted LibDem truly want to Remain, so if they don’t get an absolute majority the UK should leave immediately. The situation is more nuanced than either simple minded proposition implies.
2
Not all Brexit supporters feel able to support a right wing party run by Farage.
1
In every Tory leadership contest I remember - starting with Thatcher's victory over Heath - the obvious frontrunner was defeated by someone nobody saw coming.
Johnson list his chance in the damn-the - torpedoes atmosphere he largely helped to create in 2016- because even his closest colleagues did not trust him. Given his poor performance as Foreign Minister since then, I'm hoping this odious narcissist and his delusions of grandeur will stay permanently out of no. 10.
13
We're still talking about this as if the entire process is in Westminster. Half the equation is in Brussels, and they are clearly intent on making an example of Britain and damn the consequences for trade with their members. This is the basic irony. The harder brexit fails the more it is justified.
37
Brussels is not trying to punish Britain for Brexit but simply trying to protect the very legitimate interests of all the other member nations against Britain's destructive behaviour.
79
Can you in any way substantiate this rather wild assertion? The EU has been reasonable all along, it’s the UK that’s painted itself into a corner because of the inherent contradictions and fundamental of Brexit (as advertised in the referendum).
50
The EU has created the Irish border question by stating without a comprehensive trade agreement it would need custom checks on the Border between The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. With modern technologies for tracking goods across borders there is simply no need for this. Without this one provision May would have got her deal agreed months ago.
4
Brexit is the bastard child of Conservative Party and EU austerity following the so-called recession, which was in fact a slow motion depression. The British social safety net is shredded, and poverty rates are ascending at alarming rates; heretofore London was the only prosperous region.. Add in lies, jingoistic propaganda, and voilà.... Boris Johnson.
11
This has been May's plan all along to win to be remembered by history kindly.
The surest way to be forgiven for being a total failure is to be followed by someone who finds a way to do dramatically worse, and no one is more able to make a bad situation worse than BJ.
8
i can only wish the hard brexit is forced through - this way united europe will become free of this nasty little island who never considered themselves part of europe in the first place.
forget the currency difference, the britons even had maintain a different electrical plug than everyone else.
good luck to them alone in their post-empire adventure!
13
The UK electric plug is widely recognised to be the safest in the world. Why would the UK go backwards on a safety issue.
2
this was always about English exceptionalism and the inability of the English Tory party baulking at the idea of shared sovereignty with "those foreigners" in the EU. The EU has put in place many sensible laws around the environment, workers rights and protections that are an anethema to the hard right in the Tory party. They talk about retaking UK sovereignty but the first thing they will do is flog it off to US business interests when the White House has the UK Gov over a barrel in a trade deal. You are witnessing the final gasps of a UK that is about to disintegrate over Brexit. Ireland will re-unite and Scotland will vote to part from a right wing England bent on lies and hubris. And this was all so predictable the day after the vote came in three years ago.
10
But if the 2016 lies of the pro-Brexit camp have been exposed, as Mr. Cohen states, then why is Farage's Brexit party favored to win this round of European elections?
3
The same reasons people who are not the wealthiest still support Trump in the USA.
14
Farage and the Brexit party will win because the average voter is too lazy to try to really understand the underlying issues of Brexit and the devastating consequences. Make Britain Great Again !
Folks in America who support trump are racist, like trump.
As Trump says this will weaken the U.K. and Europe which will increase US dominance. A weaker Europe is good relatively for the US. Trump is cheering
6
Does anyone else see the humor in a English lorry driver, French/English dictionary in hand, trying to work out a trade deal at the border?
2
It is understandable that the Brits are sick of this never ending divorce. The rest of the EU is too. It has gotten to the point where "just get it over with" is the rallying cry, regardless of the consequences. But here is what is unforgivable. Instead of contemplating the different exit scenarios, their impact and developing a set of plans for the future, folks like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson led their fellow countrywomen and men down the rabbit hole with their blatant lies and fear mongering – assisted by some of the scurrilous British tabloids.
How easy it is for the snake oil salesmen to manipulate the lazy citizens we have become. Have we learned anything?
10
Please do not use words like “dissembling” and “uncertain relationship with the truth” when speaking about Boris Johnson, when the accurate word is “lying.” The day after the Brexit vote he (and Nigel Farage) walked back on the much-hyped claim that with Brexit, Great Britain would have £350 million pounds a week to spend on the NHS, a claim that many believe was influential in many older Britons voting for Brexit.
Boris Johnson had a top-notch “public school” education, can quote “the classics” and has a higher IQ than Donald Trump, but he is no less a “liar” and a “conman” than Trump. God save the British if he becomes prime minister.
17
There is one undeniable truth, about the Brexit referendum of three years ago, proven and undeniably established as such. A great number of those who voted to “Leave” woke up after the results were in, googling “what is the E.U.?” and discovering that the “Leavers” had fed them lies, half-truths and misinformation on the basis of which they had gone to vote. Lies are poison. Everything that has happened since the referendum is fruit off the poisonous tree. But Britain seeks to eat that fruit, searching for the best way to digest it without becoming gravely ill. I do not believe “democracy” means you must never say you were wrong. Brexit, for some Brits, has become a manic compulsion that has little to do with Europe and much more to do with a newly uncovered ugly face of ignorant nationalism.
9
As the domino theory of devolution, designed and powered to spread its juggernaut course around the globe, stoked by fear, confusion and chaos, shows no sign of lessening, what’s left to do, beyond keeping a stiff upper lip, is to create a counter revolution for truth, law, order, sanity and decency.
No small feat, that. Yet essential and still definitely possible if we are prepared to defend what’s left of our and everyone else’s sense of democracy.
Vote.
5
I was in Spain on the day Brexit passed. I realized that day that Trump could win. In my home region (fenland) the Brexit vote was 80% for leaving. Even my old school mates who live most of the year in the Iberian peninsula are 100% for leaving. Of course they are great supporters of Farage and his party of no policies (god forbid he does well in any future general elections). Unfortunately, just like the farmers of the fly-over states, the damage has already been done. China is sourcing soy beans from other countries, London is losing business to the continent. But we can all keep singing Jerusalem! Good luck to the Scots, it's time for a second referendum, independence not Brexit.
12
@Son of Bricstan
"Good luck to the Scots, it's time for a second referendum, independence not Brexit."
Scottish independence is a pipe dream based on unrealistic expectations of being some kind of petro-state. In reality, North Sea oil production peaked two decades ago and Scotland relies on funding from the central government in London. Based on current conditions, an independent Scotland would have a substantial budget deficit and might find itself unable to borrow money in bond markets without deep cuts in public spending, clearly a politically unpalatable step.
@J.J. Hunsecker pipe dream? Must be why all the other small independent countries in the EU are having such a terrible time of it, Ireland, Denmark etc. Scotland does now have all the tax raising powers so we are at the mercy of what the UK Gov decides on funding. the Scottish government cannot run a deficit. It has now borrowing powers. Our deficit is the Scottish share of the bloated deficit UK Gov is running up. Independent Scotland would have different spending priorities than the UK Gov. But hey. You knew that already, right?
It is surely the abject failure of Britain's political parties to reach a compromise on a second vote that is the cause of the current crisis over Brexit. When no one can admit to a mistake, and when everyone places Party over country, chaos is sure to follow by allowing the UK to cast off the EU and row around endlessly in the dark North Sea, likeGoT's Gendry. Electing Boris Johnson as PM is sheer madness.
9
It’s extremely telling that Trump is friends with Farage and Johnson. Putin wants the EU to implode and provided money to the leader of Brexit, who was meeting with the Russian Ambassador during the campaign. The Russians also used Facebook to send false messages. All to clearly achieve an aim Russia wanted. Then you have Trump telling May to be “firm” with the EU, and encouraging Brexit at every turn. And of course inviting Farage and Johnson to the White House during all of this. And yes, Johnson would be a great ally to Trump. Both are preening manipulative peacocks. The only difference if course is that Johnson is an educated man of letters, while Trump is an uneducated oaf who likes to watch TV. And at least Johnson would never embroil the UK in a ”wag the dog” war to get elected whereas that’s where Trump is heading the US.
18
Like so many other countries, Britain's witless sense of nationalism has fueled Brexit and may doom it.
13
Britain is in the same condition as the U.S. and like here, it makes no sense to continue with Leaders who do not act in the best interest of all of the citizenry. Common sense seems to have left both Countries.
Why don't they call another vote on the Brexit referendum with the general Populace? After all, the voters were fed a bucket full of lies first time around. Now that the voters know the truth I believe that they would vote to stay.
May was a Remainder and under the circumstances she did the best she could with the hand she was dealt.
I sure wish we could have had another vote on the Presidency, as we were all fed lies and continue to be fed outrageous lies, by the Trump and the GOP. I believe at this point 10,000 plus lies should be enough to throw anyone out of office, let alone have Trump and his cronies lead us into another senseless war so they have an excuse to sell arms to their favorite countries. And have access to more oil.
The people of the world need to throw all of the bums out who put their future in jeopardy.
Sounds like WWII all over again, except we are the ones who seem to be embarking on starting it. Very scary times.
5
@Jean
Look, Trump always in his campaign for President of the US of A appeared to be a terrible person. Why then did he win? Why should we the people even need a second go at him? In fact he will possibly be candidate yet again. What makes you think he will not win?
Britain thrived on trade for a millennium.
The idea that it won't be able to do the same from now on, that everything has to be settled by bureaucrats and politicians before the exit, is nuts.
2
Your colleague is correct that you can't fix stupid... but voters have bought into the overarching stupidity that comes with expecting democracy to work as efficiently as business... a mindset that neoliberals reinforce when they echo the mantra that "government is the problem" and outsource government functions to the private sector.
Business operates on totalitarian principles where profit is the only metric that counts. In business it is imperative to do things as fast as possible in order to be the first to the market with a product and/or to engineer the production of a product so that it is less expensive than a competitor. This mindset compels corporations to seek the lowest costs and fewest obstacles possible--- even if that means fewer jobs, lower wages, less tax revenue to operate the government effectively, and more pollution.
Voters have bought into the notion that there is a fast, easy, and uncomplicated answer to every problem... and that answer is to dismantle government and make every government function into a profit center.... and to view their nation as a competitor with every other nation in the world.
In this day and age, democracies can only succeed if they look out for everyone in their country... and the world. Building walls and breaking treaties might help the bottom line of borderless corporations, but it won't solve the complicated problems that voters hope to save quickly and cheaply.
5
@WFGersen
“Government is the problem” was a characterization pushed by Reagan and is a Republican “mantra.” Again a commenter seeks to blame Trump on the Democrats. Please look again at the facts.
The supposed negative aspects we’re seeing daily are in your writer’s imagination. The UK has record employment and reasonable growth.
Quite why this paper is so opposed to a foreign country implementing a democratic vote puzzles me. After all, many on the UK think electing the current president wasn’t a good idea but we recognise it’s none of our business and respect your decision.
2
@Iain Clark There was nothing democratic about the last referendum. Politicians often hold referendums in order to try and legitimize something they have already decided to do and that is exactly what happened in this case. Then they try to influence the result with false political messaging - aka Cambridge Analytica, AIQ and bus banners. If you are going to hold a referendum about something it should at least have public backing but there was no public clamour for a vote on this issIt was all a con trick.
Brexit is another election in which Russia interfered. Let's not forget that.
8
I am aware that looks should have nothing to do with who people vote for, but in this case I would have a hard time voting, if I were English, for Boris Johnson. He just looks too much like Donald Trump.
7
Uh, that’s not what Holmes said. He said (I quote from memory): “If you eliminate all other possibilities, whatever remains, however improbable, is the truth.” Which also has the advantage of making sense. Otherwise excellent piece.
2
They are no longer Great and certainly not United? What will we call the Islands?
3
Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you realize how good you had it. The US is seeing that with Donald Trump. It appears the Brits will now do that with Boris Johnson. I wish them well but fear they will be in the same kind of predicament the US is.
8
Boris Johnson is a nightmare but he is born of the upper classes and that sadly matters much in English politics. Americans are not quite aware of that aspect of Johnson. Johnson is not going away.
The essay writer talks about the disaster if England exits but it mostly affects the banks wanting to do global transactions. Everything else will work out over time if brexit actually happens. Traveling and trade will be figured out. The sky is not falling.
2
@K Henderson That hardly singles him out. Many politicians in the UK (Scotland, England, Wales & Northern Ireland) are former public schoolboys. Johnson's popular him because he has a certain buffoonish charm and he has spent decades shaping a blasé, blustery public persona. But he is a very dangerous, weaselly, ruthless man, and it will go badly with Britain if he becomes leader. The sky notwithstanding, this will have real and bad consequences for actual people, so forgive me if I can't stand to be glib about it.
2
What I like about Boris Johnson is that he has the same position about human control of climate as Trump.
Will he have the guts to exit the Paris treaty as well?
In Britain this is more serious than in the US. They have about 20,000 extra deaths every winter, elderly or frail people who cannot afford heating made expensive by green mandates. I took my PhD (mathematical physics) in Britain. One had to insert coins into a radiator to get some heat...
2
@novoad That must have been about forty years ago. Coin-operated utilities haven't been widespread for decades. Sadly, your grasp of EU politics seems to be as retrograde as your general knowledge of the UK.
2
@novoad scientific certainty doesn’t matter much, does it? Don’t you worry...Millennials and Gen Z will outlive and outvote you old folks and corporate crooks.
This is why I love AOC and her generation...just to see geezer blood boil.
Well there is no unity in any of the major political parties on the Brexit issue. The population is similarly divided. The plebiscite was rushed, and ill considered.
There is actually no imperative to do anything.
Leave it alone for a few years, and get on with governing. Britain needs someone strong enough to say that enough is enough, and just leave to settle for a while, and allow rational and unheated debate to occur. Britain may be an island, but by itself it cannot prosper in a global market sea.
3
Legitimate media needs to investigate how disinformation may have influenced the original Brexit vote. Disinformation is an international problem that should interest all at this critical time. The subtle effects of doctored information continues to influence without shame. Is that the real chaos? Organizations like Facebook and Twitter are amoral, borderless and barely regulated. They are too easy for bad people to use. The recent video of Nancy Pelosi is a perfect example of media manipulation here in the US. What goes on in the British media world? There are few, if any consequences for media abuse. It take little imagination to understand how disinformation can be used within the UK to influence public discourse going forth. We need to worry in the US because we are victims, too. Brexit has already hurt the British economy. Was that the whole point?
10
@et.al.nyc
Actually the disinformation campaign was on the remain side with the Government funded BBC at the center.
Luckily the voters saw through the scaremongering and voted to leave the EU.
The political disregard for democracy that has followed is the reason for the mess we're in. Hopefully with a new PM we can get back on track to a greater future.
3
And yet only a Leave campaign (LeaveEU) has been referred to the police by the Electoral Commission for alleged illegal campaign practices. And the "scaremongering" is proving to be be fact the closer we get to leaving, or haven't you heard about the Honda plant in Swindon closing and the collapse of foreign investment in the UK? But there's no point arguing the facts with committed Brexiteers - for them Brexit is an article of faith, impervious to reason.
Propelling the voter's desire for Brexit is the same problem facing all Europe: immigration and the fear of losing national identity.
Third World Immigration is the singular cause for nationalistic popularity, and the right-wing preference voters have displayed in much of Europe and the world.
3
Since the Brexit referendum, Britain has become a shell of its former self. The traditional party system has broken down, and the country has entered a full-blown culture war that shows no sign of abating.
Theresa May’s resignation signals an endgame, with a battlefield that is shifting towards a fierce fight between the two binary choices – no deal versus no Brexit.
A hardline, no-deal Brexiter may well win the contest to succeed May, but it does not mean the Tories will have a mandate to crash the country into economic and diplomatic disaster.
No doubt there are many in Britain who object to installing a new prime minister on the votes of an ageing sect that makes up the core of the Conservative party. It is a group that is totally unrepresentative of the nation as a whole. Time for a new election.
14
It never ceases to amaze me how people will exercise a political vote based on emotion, rather than reason and research into how an issue will benefit them.
It's like going on a bender--it feels so good but the hangover in the morning leaves you bereft and sick.
Ever since spring 2016, a majority in Britain has been in the midst of a colossal hangover, including regret for their vote and total dread of what's to come.
Country by country, political system by political system, blowing things up holds more appeal than the very hard work of fixing existing problems through compromise and common sense.
16
I’m sorry but that’s nonsense. The Brexit party just got the largest vote in the UK’s EU election.
They weren’t voted for by people who regret voting to leave and are dreading the consequence. It was a message to get the referendum result implemented.
5
Well if Brexit was so popular, and elected politicians had a mandate to implement it, why couldn't it get implemented? Over here, we read over and over how the issues were framed in such a manner as to feed off anger, with no sense if what the true impact would be. in other words, false pretenses pushed by cynical politicians with no plan other than to blame every British problem on the EU. We also kept reading here, over and over, corroborated by To get Cohen, that Russia disinformation played a big role too, in a precursor to our own 2016 election.
I would be very interested in how you see the current stalemate and how you want Brexit implemented without the "hard Brexit" proposition that would stop Britian in its tracks and paralyze the country.
2
It’s not been implemented because those in charge don’t want to.
The only thing that makes less sense than Brexit perhaps is the idea of a second referendum. Given the possibility of a do-over once, this will become the fall-back position of every political loser, who will say, "oh, that was obviously a faulty decision, let's vote again!". Because Prime Minister May bungled the opportunity to lead the UK out of the EU is no reason to pass judge on the decision itself. The real reason some wring their hands in fear over Boris Johnson is that he could lead the UK into the 'no-deal Brexit', and then the predicted economic and social disaster does not happen, as its entrepreneurs find there is a way to trade and function without the EU. There would not be a bigger blow to the idea of an international world order than that.
2
@David Godinez
Many, many Brits votes leave without a clear understanding of what separating from the EU will mean, economically and socially. And they were lied to, by Johnson, Farage, and others. The consequences of Brexit have been made clearer these past three years, and haven’t taken hold yet. For that reason it makes perfect sense to hold a second referendum.
10
The people who really didn’t know what they were voting for were those who voted remain.
The EU is an evolving organisation, very different now to when the UK joined and with a policy to centralise ever more. No one knows what’ll be like in 30 years time or if they do they’re not telling us.
2
David.. So the EU will embrace England? The US, under trump, will come to their rescue? Neither will happen.
England on its own is nothing. They have nothing to offer anyone. They are broke.
It will sink into chaos. Anarchy. And like a virus, will infect other nations.
The US is next.
2
Brexit is like ripping off a band-aid. There is no painless way to do it. The European leaders don't want someone like Boris Johnson in their midst. They would like him to rip off the band-aid. Enough already. They have a Union to tend to.
Downstream consequence - Scotland leaves.
15
@Vasu Srinivasan
You're absolutely correct. Scotland voted "no" in the independence referendum and "remain" in the EU referendum.
Johnson, the little Englanders & the likes of Farage are anathema to Scotland.
Scotland has always been an outwards looking country. England has become more & more inwards looking.
It is only a matter of time until there is a second independence referendum. I voted against first time round for a variety of reasons. I won't vote that way again; nor will anyone else I've spoken to who voted "no" in 2014.
5
@VambomadeSAHB correct. I'm a covert to independence due to Brexit and there are many, many, many like us...
1
@Vasu Srinivasan you are absolutely right sir. I was for the union in the 2014 vote on Scottish independence but the alarming lurch to the right in England and the idiocy of Brexit has made me (and many, many, many other Scots) re-evaulate our positions. Scotland will indeed become independent. Not an if any longer, just a when.
3
Despite the focus of the media on the impossibility and stupidity of Brexit, The EU created this problem by accepting the UK as a member in the first place with so many concessions that the UKs nationalist image remained and was even strengthened. The propaganda of the EU has been driven by an ultra elite who have made billions from it but it was a failed system made on compromises and lies to exist in the first place. Spain will be next, then France. The EU is over.
5
@Saint Leslie Ann Of Geddes - Most of the Europeans I know (numbered in the teens) think of themselves as Europeans first and German, French, or British second. The EU will survive without the UK just fine.
8
@Dutch
Ha Ha yea try telling a German he's European , the French will probably be the next to leave.
@Saint Leslie Ann Of Geddes
The positive side of "made billions" of a failed system, has a darker connotation: at the cost of others.
Roger - your colleague Tom Friedman was right to say that "you can't fix stupid." Referenda are, basically, stupid solutions within a Parliamentary democracy. Potentially, as with BREXIT, it divorces "the people" from "the process." Once called, however, they are a direct instruction to Parliament, or more widely, the Crown and should not be obstructed let alone recalled.
The whole "change your mind" argument is just intellectually inadequate. First implement the instruction and then, if circumstances change dramatically or opinion reverses after a sufficient period to allow re-assessment, then fine. There were 41 years between the UK's 1975 and 2016 referenda: that seems about right. The Scottish "indyref" of 2014, so famously referred to as a "once in a generation opportunity" by Alex Salmond before he lost that one, should also settle that question for 40-50 years.
I voted remain. I accept that the UK leaving the EU without a trade deal risks substantial UK economic disadvantage. I accept that the Leave campaign used misleading, simplistic information in their campaign (as did Osborne and HMG.) Nevertheless, I would now prefer the UK to leave the EU with no deal than attempt to backtrack the 2016 referendum instruction. I was a non-passionate remainer, but now find myself a determined no deal leaver.
Supporters of democracy within the UK's eccentric system should avoid the dangerous and lazy threat of a referendum do-over, or what decision will ever stand?
5
I also voted remain but now support leaving, for the simple reason that’s what was voted for.
If Parliament didn’t want us to leave the EU they shouldn’t have voted to hold a referendum, which they did overwhelmingly.
3
@longsummer Who wants to be a member of a club that won't let you resign?
Will the UK keep it's word on the good Friday agreement, or are the Brittish people that cannot be trusted.
A wonderfully honest and accurate balance of the state of things in the country that I studied in und have deep ties to. I love arguing with people who have a different point of view, but have yet to hear a single person who makes an intelligent case for Brexit.
Brexit is indeed a terrifying example of how dangerous the globally widespread mix of ignorance, misplaced nostalgia and jingoism, prejudice, opportunistic and untruthful politicians, fake news and cynical manipulation in tabloid and social media, blaming the wrong people for one's own failures, and resentment has become.
97
@Ramesh Biswas Might it be that the EU has been mismanaged for decades and provides very little positive incentive to support a mechanism that has impoverished most of the southern European states. Just spend some time there speaking to unemployed graduates in their 20's with limited on no job prospects - Spain, Italy, Greece as examples. Alongside that, an arrogant commission in Brussels that sees any alternative to ever closer union as heresy. The EU worked as a Common Market that most of us joined in the 1970's. But come the Euro and the Single Market (yet to be established in services let's not forget) and all of the realities in terms of disjointed economies were locked into a precooked disaster waiting to happen.
We Brits who voted to leave, have no faith in a Commission that is a stitch up for insiders. I have worked in global trade for over 40 years and the opportunities going forward are in Asia, Africa and South America, not the EU. Its demands for sclerotic process over enterprising ambition resemble much of the bureaucratic nightmare that hampers India. The outcome of the Euro elections this week will highlight the frustration found in many member states if you listen to the man in the street.
European integration may eventually come, but it will take decades and happen due to low cost air travel rather than dictat from Brussels. We will suffer if we leave with no deal for a while, but the inherent frustration built up over decades makes it all but inevitable.
4
@KG Every large entity needs reform and rebooting, and the EU is one of the few that is constantly doing that. Don't fall into Donald Rumsfeld's "Old Europe" misconception and underestimate Europe's innovative power, youth and quality of life. Yes, the EU could do so much better, but here's a handful of proven steps out of a thousand that the EU (with Britain's involvement and support) has accomplished for "the man on the street", that it's member states alone would not have done:
1) abolishing roaming charges for phones & data transfer, accelerating business and tourism
2) banning plastic straws, earbuds and cups etc while promoting research into and production of recyclable alternatives
3) banning the use of carcinogenic glyphosate herbicides that kill off bees and thus endanger pollination, crops/food production (still legal in the US)
4) the hugely successful ERASMUS academic exchange programme that accelerates research, cooperation, travel, multilingual relationships and friendships between universities and students throughout the continent and beyond, financed to the tune of €30 billion.
5) massive support for climate change mitigation including further development of rail networks and public transport (though the influence of the fossil-fuel and automotive industry lobbies must admittedly be further curtailed)
6) above all, the PEACEFUL settlement of issues without trade wars or real wars, on a continent ravaged by war for centuries, before the EU came into being.
10
@Ramesh Biswas Intelligent case for Brexit? National Sovereignty, But then, decades of malfeasance, corruption, greed, bad decisions and lies in British politics have made that impossible as well.
The Brexit faction, it seems to me, is taking the attitude of a ill person going to hospice. They don’t believe things will get better and they are ready for the end because they are tired.
Plus there is the resemblance to the Trump deplorables, in that they would rather wreck the country than admit that the hopes and plans were unfounded. Just louder and meaner in the doubling down on a losing hand.
34
Yeah. I love when people lose elections or in the case of Brexit a referendum and then characterize the winning side. Trump was elected deal with it. Brexit was supported. Deal with it. I prefer to look at how we got there. In both cases enough people believed the system was not working for them. Perhaps the alternatives won’t work either but it did upset the status quo, never a bad thing
1
At least you have moral superiority, if not a winning argument
US inequality is economic, with promises articulated in the Constitution yet to be fully realized.
Britain's inequality is baked in: it goes beyond the economy to the heart of British history, which is the chasm between royals and peasants.
British democracy is an inebriated state of semi-feudal rule: absent a written constitution the British rely on tradition that honors the privileges of royalty with a reluctant nod to the peasantry.
Magna Carta, which has paternity rights to our own Constitution, was less a grant of basic rights than a sharing of royal prerogatives with competing royals.
Modern day Britain is Magna Carta extended to monied elites with rural and urban poor as politically disenfranchised as before.
Royalty wants its sovereignty back so the peasants eat can austerity. Corporate Barons want a common and efficient market that empowers all as equals.
Brexit is King John vs. rebel barons -- with the Tories in the role of the royals and Corporate Britain playing the upstart barons, with the rest of Britain divided in their loyalties between monarchy and market.
English royalty and Tory upper classes see the EU as Henry VIII viewed the Papacy: civil authority akin to the Pope's religious authority trumping English crown sovereignty.
The English upper class deserves all the contempt and ridicule heaped on it for arrogance, idiocy and sheer incompetence.
If stupid* didn't exist, the English upper class would invent him.
*aka Boris Johnson.
13
That explains why all the wealthy brits voted Leave. Oh, wait...
2
Stirring.
How, exactly, do the royals oppress the feudal peasants in 2019?
I hope they do the hard brexit. I believe that people who make poor decisions should suffer the consequences of the their mistakes. It is the only way some people can learn. I believe that is why so many people lack the mental capacity to make intelligent and informed decisions, because they have never had to suffer for their lack of intelligence. We put up systems that treat them as a commodity and thus they need to be kept alive for profits sake. Having never actually faced reality they are intellectually incapable of discerning any sense of reality.
A few more years of Trump and Boris and they will have learned how they were mistaken. That is if severe suffering is capable of waking cult members. Anyway, if life become hard and cruel for everyone, the majority will have earned it.
9
@Chris
The thing is, this time, “learning the hard way” might involve the irreversible decline of the environment that has made the existence of Homo Sapiens possible.
The contradictions are all there. The technologies are all there.
1
Britain is a tiresome nation, they need to end the melodrama and simply wither into complete irrelevance. They're almost there.
11
Most Britons just want to live their lives in peace, they don’t care if the country is relevant, whatever that means.
It only matters to politicians because it makes them seem important.
1
... due to their sudden quest for isolationism, Britain first; a course being followed by others.
Fear and anger. It's the Trump formula. Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are just the UK purveyors of the same swill.
On one thing I agree with them: At this point, the UK voters should get what they wanted. They voted for stupidity so they are entitled to it. Sometimes a person has to fail to realize it was wrong. Same with a country.
5
As someone who voted to remain, I absolutely agree! The rational argument hasn’t worked, not we must ‘eat our cake’ whatever the consequence. I hope it works out but if it doesn’t, we might someday wake up a humbler nation?
@Jack Sonville
You forgot to add lying to the fear & anger.
@Jack Sonville The same should be said for the Trump voters.
The British got through the horrors of WWII through unity. They cannot get through the economic horrors of Brexit with this level of acrimony and distrust. They must hold a second referendum.
Voting based on a lie is not democracy. You can say Trump lies all the time, but there is ample evidence that his supporters know he's lying and support him anyway. So that is still democracy. Stupid, but democracy.
Now that the British know the truth, a second referendum can be a real choice. If brexit still wins, at least it will be a true democratic choice. A stupid one, but a true choice.
I would add that the referendum for leaving ought to require two-thirds approval, since it will require a super-majority of agreement to go through the difficulty and pain that such a separation requires. That should have been the requirement for the first referendum.
9
As Tom Friedman said, "You can’t fix stupid."
Brexit, which makes no sense, is unfixable. Trump and his cult are unfixable. The British should hold a new referendum, and vote to throw out the Brexit madness. Because Johnson is such a Trump, a hard Brexit is possible--which would be an unfixable disaster. Because Trump has committed numerous impeachable offenses, we should impeach him in the House. Whether or not we impeach him, we should vote him out of office. And we have no choice but to write off his base.
7
Johnson's elevation to PM is a poisoned chalice. The issue of Ireland and the current pivotal power of Northern Ireland's DUP will not go away. Furthermore, he will be the second unelected Prime Minister in 3 years, not a position that will garner Parliamentary votes for ANY plan. And if he calls for an election, Farage's Brexit Party will erode the Tory vote. The result will be the final nail in the coffin for Johnson. Bring him on. It'll be the beginning of the end for him!
4
Knowing the brutal and bloody history of Europe that spilled all over the world, EU can be considered the best, most ambitious human project ever, one that would bring peace and prosperity to its members, freedom to travel, study and work wherever any of EU citizens wish to. EU is a historic dream come through.
Therefore, to oppose EU and help dismantle it is almost a criminal act and cannot be achieved but only by trafficking in abhorrent lies and blatant untruths. Brexit was predicated on such lies.
Brexit is an abomination, a fiasco of historic proportions. Hopefully in the eleventh hour the British will fine enough resolve to revert this horrible mistake.
6
Sadly, it may be the disaster of a no-deal Brexit that is necessary to teach the resurgent hard-right across the Western world the costs of its narrow, parochial vision of the world. At this point, I see no prospect of Britain averting this disaster. Another referendum would be the democratic way to solve the problem but the next Cons leader will not allow it. Of course, it is possible that Parliament itself will take control from the PM, but that remains to be seen and is a long-shot. An aside: I've seen no evidence that Corbyn is, in any way, anti-Semitic or that he has "opened the floodgates" on it in his party. What he has done is question the actions of the Israeli state - an openly apartheid regime, by the admission of its own prime minister. Constantly repeating the slanders about Corbyn does not make them true.
5
I do believe there are world wide efforts by conservative ideologues to destroy democratic institutions just cause they can and will do it.
10
I hope Johnson does become PM. He can take full responsibility for the Brexit myths he peddled and rightfully wear the outcome - the lies don't become true just because you repeat them.
He can also face the wall the EU will hold in place, as the weakly positioned UK tries to bargain for a 'We win, you lose' deal that will be rejected.
9
What makes no sense is for a former colony of Britain which fought a war for the right to self determination advising Britain that reclaiming its self determination is a stupid mistake.
2
@God I've often thought that America's war for self determination was a mistake, and that a united empire would have been preferable in the long run. But as we've seen, united empires don't seem to last.
“Polls suggest many Britons have reconsidered their vote in 2016, and that a second referendum would reverse the result” but the EU Parliament election just held “seems likely to deliver victory for Nigel Farage’s rightist Brexit Party”.
Once again polls are indicating a left of centre view but actual elections give the opposite result. This obvious conflict goes unremarked by the opinion writer. Surely at some stage an opinion writer has to concede that actual polling results of yesterday have somewhat more validity than a commissioned poll of last week?
3
When you have sold the electorate poisoned meat, and a slim majority has cooked and served it, all that remains, however unpalatable, must be dinner.
When I was young I never thought the Soviet Union would implode. Goodbye, formerly Great Britain.
4
Trump and Johnson will make a great comical couple! The best since Laurel and Hardy !!
5
@Tristan Roy Except that while Johnson is often funny, Trump never is.
1
As we watch the UK from afar, bemused and befuddled, somewhat smugly repeating that "one can't fix stupid," we would do well to take a careful look at the dysfunction that increases daily by leaps and bounds in our own politics. Just how recently did it seem implausible, if not impossible, to elect to the presidency an obviously incompetent, narcissistic, misogynist?
12
This whole Brexit thing upsets me almost as much as our Trumpian sad state of affairs. I just do not understand how the apparent grownups in the parlor of the Western European home can just fold up and have a figurative nervous breakdown. It is a fiasco over there. What has happened? If so many of England's population want another referendum in order to un-Brexit themselves, why on earth is it not being done? I truly think the cancer of our own government here in the US is metastasizing to not only the UK but also to France, Austria, Germany et al. Or maybe it is vice-versa. Which came first the chicken or the egg? One thing is clear, however: Britain is not alone. The democracies of the West - including America's - are disappearing before our eyes. Nativism, nationalism, racism, bigotry, and even isolationism are the new ominous realities. Upon the opening of Pandora's box, all hate, all fear, all mistrust is let loose and smothering our very spirits and souls.
7
@Kathy Lollock
Watch this TED Talk & you'll see how it happened:
https://www.ted.com/talks/carole_cadwalladr_facebook_s_role_in_brexit_and_the_threat_to_democracy
May didn't have a chance. Not her fault. It was always heading this way. The real war begins.
3
Tsk. So annoying when the hoi polloi don't vote the way the elites demand, isn't it. What a pity the Magna Carta made no mention of an electoral college, which the geniuses of the enlightenment designed for the colonies to rein in the mob's ignorant proclivities. Irony is indeed delicious. Equally satisfying is cataloguing irony's cousin, hypocrisy, on display every day in these pages and distributing the flip-flopping maxims to an already angry, motivated, and expanding base of anti-liberal voters. Believe me, we appreciate the assistance.
2
I vote for shifting the modifier "feckless" so that it no longer illuminates Labour Pary, as in "...and Jeremy Corbyn’s feckless Labour Party" but rather sheds light on Corbyn, yielding "...feckless Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party."
Or perhaps the better solution is to add another "feckless," giving us "...feckless Jeremy Corbyn's feckless Labour Party."
Yes, I think that's got it.
2
Americans read about the rise in nationalist parties in continental Europe and are very disturbed by the regression to ideas thought to be permanently repugnant to civilized people.
We read about similarly self-inflicted wounds in Britain and are amazed at the insanity of the parties already in power there.
If one pauses to reflect about all of this, the realization dawns that most Europeans and even the British probably are thinking the same things about the United States.
At least the Brits and citizens of the European Union have an outsider to blame for the current craziness. He is a semi-literate grifter named Donald Trump, who cheers on the worst politicians Europe and the United Kingdom have to offer.
What’s our excuse?
6
I welcome the rise of Boris Johnson; Britain needs a leader of his magnitude. Thank you.
1
“ Both are men gifted in the dark arts “. And that, Sir, says it all. A modest proposal: a skilled, talented, accomplished Woman to lead us out of this testosterone wilderness. May was the sacrificial lamb, of little consequence to the members of Her Party. She gave it her best, but it wasn’t enough. Best Wishes to Her. As for the USA : Trump is unraveling faster than a Chinese made Ivanka Trump sweater. Let Him. Prediction : He will Resign within two or three months. He’ll make a big, beautiful, Deal to avoid Prosecution, for himself and his Family. Kushner negotiable. And of course, FOX will portray Him as the Victim, and blame Fake News, witch hunts and Democrats.
Seriously.
2
not exactly.
The Adventure of the Beryl Coronet
It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
Page 315
An incisive article except for one thing: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. Since when is objecting to the cruel authoritarianism of those at the helm of a nation the same as vilifying the religion of people who make up a large part (but not all!) of that state? The Palestinian people deserve to exist, and, yes, to thrive. Instead they are being slowly but surely obliterated. Which is not to say the violence coming from their side should be condoned. But anything less that allowing them the dignity which is the birthright of all humans is a shameless travesty. As far as I can tell, saying as much is Jeremy Corbyn's position. It has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
6
@free range I'm so glad that somebody brought this up. It's completely wrong to equate any criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism, just as criticism of the fascist Trump should not be construed as ant-American. What Israel has done to the Palestinian people is an international crime that must be rectified.
@free range
absolutely. a growing number of people now understand that blurring the line between a criticism of israeli apartheid and anti-semitism is no longer acceptable. roger cohen is falling in line with some bad people...
“It doesn’t make sense”.
Neither will the ramifications of Brexit, but they sure will hurt!
Like Trump the destroyer, Boris Johnson will regret becoming prime minister. Boris is also a destroyer - he has no answers for fixing Brexit. Like his buddy Trump, he'll be exposed as a charlatan and a fool, and England will pay the price.
5
@markymark
Not "England". The "UK".
If there are any provisions in English law similar to the common schoolyard practice of resolving disputes in athletic contests with “takeovers,” the time to invoke them is today.
1
Re: However improbable it was that a normally prudent nation would vote for self-amputation from a 46-year membership in a union of a half-billion Europeans that has brought it prosperity and influence,
Stop right there
It brought prosperity to London, where finances flourished, not to a significantl degree because the washing of Russian money.
It did NOT bring prosperity to British plumbers, who saw their job taken over by Polish plumbers. British farmers who lost out to cheap meat from Romania, Cadbury workers laid off when the factory moved factory to Poland Peugeot closed its Ryton etc plant and moved production to Slovakia ...
In short, once the EU enlarged to include low wage countries (Poland 1/4, Romania 1/6th) British workers saw well paying jobs move Eeast just as Americans saw well paying jobs move to Mexico and China
It was NOT that they did not know what it would entail. EVERY UK household, before the Brexit vote , got a leaflet from the UK government explaining the consequences and the recommendation to remain in the EU. That is EVERY
Read it for yourself
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf
After having studied it, the majority of Brits voted to leave
3
Thanks John. Someone who understands why it happened.
It's been a very long time since Britannia ruled the waves, Roger Cohen. Brexit was and still is impossible, Not in the interests of The United Kingdom. The scary photo of Boris Johnson illustrating your column reminds us of Donald Trump. Boris and Donald look separated at birth -- hair furors, both born in New York City. Trump admires Johnson -- "He's got what it takes". They're both consummate narcissists and practitioners of dark arts. All Britain needs is a "Hard Brexit" under Johnson. We're more worried on this side of the pond about our "Hard Democracy" under president Trump.
We'll witness president Trump's State Visit to the UK in 2 weeks. The Queen will welcome him. Mrs. May will be singing her swan song. Prince Harry and his American wife, and their boy, Archie, will be in attendance. 2019 Tea on the Sceptered Isle. No one can predict who will replace Prime Minister Theresa May at 10 Downing Street. Who will replace Donald Trump at The White House next year? Will England leave the EU or stay and incur political wrath from the Disunited Kingdom? Will our 45th President be impeached and voted out of office? "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold".
1
@Nan Socolow I believe that Prince Harry's American wife has said she will not be in attendance.
They will hold a second referendum. And if Brexit wins, they will hold a third referendum. And if Brexit wins that one, they will hold a fourth referendum. They will keep on holding referenda until the liberal elite wins.
1
Roger Cohen's statement "Corbyn, the man who has opened the floodgates for anti-Semitism in his Labour Party" is a wildly unfair accusation. Those proclaiming this have decided that anti-Israeli/pro-Palestinian rhetoric gets to be counted as anti-Semetic, irregardless of the fact that Israel remains in breach of the Geneva Conventions on use of conquered territory and in breach of UN resolutions with as much force as the one that originally created Israel.
4
"Both men are gifted in the dark arts."
If the dark arts involve spouting the same old 'take control of our country mantra,' (from who?!) enriching yourself at the expense of your country, if those arts require a deft hand-wave to ignore explanation of complex issues, if they involve no magic at all but simply tickling the amygdala of the frightened, the dispossessed, the bewildered elderly, the disenfranchised working class and the xenophobic boomers then... yes. Both are 'gifted.'
May is a walking example of an Edvard Munch painting, hands clamped over her ears, mouth opened in a scream, as she publically denies to the media the outcome of a EU meeting she's just been to, trying to justify the nothing she's accomplished to everyone and no-one simultaneously. For years...
Boris Johnson is that party balloon that was fun at your 6 year old's party but accidentally flew away, got radicalised by Steve Bannon, and then returned. It sits deflated, just basically littering your roof, with its sad old reminder of good times that never really were because all the children were sick afterwards due to lowered food standards and chlorine-washed cake.
If Johnson promotes cut-price bingo and free tanning salons in his leadership campign, he's a dead cert for prime minister for life and you can take that to the bookies. The 100,000 or so blue-rinse pensioners who get to, oddly undemocratically, elect our next Prime Minister won't forget.
Googling... Icelandic citizenship.
3
Murdock and Putin's trolls have a hand in this UK mess. Sound familiar.
Perhaps if Brexit results in leaving the EU and Trump is re-elected, England can reclaim New England, then at least we would get single payer healthcare and escape the GOP march toward medieval times.
2
@poslug
yes, putin's trolls operate mind control machines...normally thoughtful citizens at once lose the ability to vote independently...and vote the putin line!
if this is the state of things, then bring on the dictatorship!
The only solution is a second vote for the British people on Brexit. If they vote to remain, the issue becomes moot for now. If they vote to leave, and the predicted dire economic consequences befall the British people, they will at least know that they voted, unlike in the first vote, with their eyes wide open.
12
Voting for Brexit was the equivalent of voting to lose 20 pounds without specifying exactly how this would be accomplished or what the implications would be. Those who wanted to bar Polish plumbers forgot the Irish border.
It is especially galling to see Farage who made wild claims about the economic advantages of leaving the EU, only to recant them the day after the vote, leading in the polls. As with the original vote, his “Brexit Party” has yet to disclose exactly exactly HOW Brexit would be accomplished and the Irish border resolved.
9
The EU has converted Britain into two disconnected voting blocs: those who benefit from membership, and are blind to its disadvantages, and those who are disadvantaged by membership, and are blind to its advantages.
Trying to resolve this globalization-induced political dysfunction by seeking a compromise status that combines a temporary Customs Union with curtailment of the Freedom of Travel has failed. The enjoyable illusion that the specter of reversion to WTO rules will foster renewed interest in negotiating advance workarounds appears to be the next phase.
3
Boris Johnson started as a journalist. He was fired from his first prestigious job in journalism, for making up "quotes."
He got another job for another paper, as they EU reporter. He became well known for his furious diatribes against the EU, which suited his new employer. He was also well known for those diatribes having little connection to fact or truth. They were just what that employer wanted to read.
That got him elected.
When his wild talk was finally called on to act, he ducked. When Brexit actually passed, he backed away from government. He wanted nothing to do with making his wild talk into reality. He must have known just how false it all was.
Now perhaps his ambition will lead him to take on the role of Prime Minister. However, he already backed away from that sort of responsibility for what he helped create, so he might duck again.
If he takes it despite knowing better before, he hasn't a chance of coming out of it well. Nor does Britain. Nor does his party if they let him do this.
113
@Mark Thomason
Yes, but then whom else will the Conservatives offer?
That's a real question I'm asking. I don't know.
@Robbie J. Anyone else. Boris Johnson is a liar, lazy and incompetent and his record proves it.
5
@Mark Thomason
This is an accurate representation of BoJo's career. Mr Thomason was, if anything, too kind, as he skipped over Johnson's disastrous spell as mayor of London.
7
The real question is whether elites like Roger really believe in Democracy. The answer would be yes, but. But how can we trust the uneducated masses to make decisions which are above their pay grade when so many intellectuals know what is best. The UK has a more responsive system than the U.S. -not better but different. Executive and legislative branches of governmnert are separate in the U.S. but not in the UK. The term is specified in the U.S. but not really in the UK as a Prime Minister may lose the confidence of Parliament and be forced out. This is what happened to Theresa May. and David Cameron before her who lost the Brexit vote.
So, the elites must grin and bear. it. It's just too bad but they will have to learn to live with Democracy. Even when they lose. Life is tough but nothing decrees that being in the EU is a panacea. Plenty of European countries are suffering because of the EU and its regulations.
Churchill, another British PM, remember him, he said that Democracy is a terrible system. There's just nothing better.
The British voters have spoken.
12
@Garry Sklar The US is a Republic--Britain, Canada and Australia have a parliamentary government. For example in Canada three parties make up the government. Therefore, "minority" governments can happen more often making all parties work together to pass legislation. Also, in Canada each person's vote count--one person--one vote--which is a true democratic system.
13
@Garry Sklar What I absolutely love is how the term 'elites' only seems to apply to thinkers like Roger Cohen, James O'Brien, JK Rowling. These are people who will be secure irrespective of the UK's position with the EU. Amazingly, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Rupert Murdoch, Jacob Reese-Mogg, the Barclay Brothers -- these 'champions of the people' stand to gain tremendously from a hard Brexit. They resist the new tax transparency and disclosure laws coming into the EU, and are moving their assets outside of the UK. Somehow this is then all the fault of 'Europeans stealing our jobs' and draining the NHS and jumping the housing queues. A brilliant lesson in how to turn the less well off against each other.
22
@Garry Sklar Winston Churchill also said that we needed a United States of Europe.
No European state is suffering because of regulations which protect its citizens which is why more and more countries are clambering to join.
Brexit happened not because of the EU but because of the Tory governments implementation of austerity which was an attack on the average citizen. The EU did not demand it. This is a global problem and failure of neo-liberal Capitalism. Those that caused the crash have benefited, it's victims have suffered which is why the miss informed voted for Trump, Bonsanaro, Orban....
Cameron was not forced out, he chose to go the day after the result,rather than deal with the mess he created.
2
There was a vote. One side lost it. End of story.
Was it wise? Is the Brexit going to cost something? Good unintended consequences? Bad unintended consequences? That will be answered in years to come. But no outcome is as bad as the will of the people being continuously invalidated by their morally and intellectually progressive left betters. Freedom includes freedom to take roads that may prove difficult or the second best alternatives. Just not having that freedom taken away by the likes of the author is worth something or a worth a lot. If it was up to me, I would definitely remain, but seeing the attempts to invalidated the vote (Russians did it included) I am starting to think that exit is necessary just to avoid a benign dictatorship by the progressive left which if they can torpedo this vote will be embolden to impose their will even more.
13
@Just Saying
Echoing Rumsfeld above:
"Free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things."
"No outcome is as bad as the will of the people being continuously invalidated by their morally and intellectually progressive left betters."
Really? No outcome?
What if they vote to continue segregation in the South? What if they hold a referendum and people in Alabama support the recent abortion laws? You can talk about state-federal distinctions all you want but the principle is the same. If a majority chooses a disastrous course in a referendum
I agree it is hugely problematic to call a 'do-over' when you don't like the results of the vote. But it is not so simple as this in the UK case.
And by the way, the coalition of Remainers is much broader than the 'progressive left'. Cameron, after all called for the referendum pinning his ministership on it.
And the reason it is not a fact is due to division on the right, not the left.
Labor int he UK is also split so your alarm ringing about a 'benign dictatorship' is overblown to say the least.
25
@Just Saying The operative line in this piece is that democracies have been known to call elections again when the way forward is not clear. My acquaintances and friends include several English men and women. Many of them tell me that their relatives who voted for Brexit had no idea of the consequences and now that they have a better idea would vote absolutely to stay in the EU. The best idea would be to have parliament make such a decision, but failing that I suspect a second referendum would settle the question.
15
@Brendan
I agree - except for the bit about the reason for it not happening being the right, not the left. Sadly the left has been rudderless on this issue since before the referendum.
5
It was madness to leave the fate of a complex, half-century relationship to an up-or-down referendum. But now that it has happened there is really no way to go back. That is why a "people's vote" will likely never happen. Since there is no support for any deal that has a realistic chance of acceptance by the EU, the UK will likely exit without a deal.
May should have reached out at the very start to the 48% who voted remain, but instead kept feeding the sharks and clowns in her own party which brought only frustration and exacerbated the bitterness. At this point it is probably best to embrace the clarity of no deal and simply begin again. Pain awaits in all directions now in any case.
8
Glad to see the Times has finally discovered there's life across the pond. Yes, they have reported "facts" and the who's-up-and-who's-down horse races, but rarely (except for Roger Cohen and David Sanger) with any substantive perspective and analysis. Perhaps if they had been more attuned to the goings on in Europe these past half dozen year, they would not have been so surprised when Trump won in 2016. The internationalist elites of all sorts all over the Western world were so complacently busy talking to each other, that they lost touch with their own peoples.
The wars in the Balkans following the dissolution of Yugoslavia should have woken up the European leadership that there were fundamental problems that needed to be addressed. It didn't. When David Cameron called for a Brexit vote, it was with the smug certainty it would end discussion of Britain leaving the E.U. Then, Brexit should have woken up the Democratic Party that something was going on they didn't get, that the "natives were restless" all over, here also, that "same old same old" for the system would no longer work, despite the huge economic and other advancement of the preceding fifty years, despite the fact that since Viet Nam, our wars were essentially outsourced to a small segment of American society. It didn't.
The result: a President Trump here, political chaos in Great Britain, and the rise of genuinely popular anti-democratic and anti-liberal values (in the traditional sense) forces in Europe.
21
There hundreds of analyses as to why the British public voted for Brexit. It could have been rejection of the elites, rejection of the austerity policies of the Cameron government or other issues. However, for decades, there was a strong anti-European streak in British politics and mass media. If one mixes that with the fact that Britain has never really found a role and direction following the dissolution of the Empire, that there has been a worship of the past (and its glories) in the last few decades, and a certain level of racism, the vote for Brexit makes perfect sense. It is just possible that a second referendum may reverse the previous narrow vote, but my guess is that neither the Tories nor Labour would allow this to happen. The Tories are driven by their nativist, jingoistic, and racist right wing and Labour does not want to disappoint their voters in the old industrial centers that supported Brexit in substantial numbers. Thus, what would most likely happen is some kind of "hard" Brexit which would not only cause substantial friction with the EU (and Ireland, in particular) but it would also "poison" the political dialog in Britain for decades to come. It may also lead to the dissolution of the UK, with Ireland re-unifying (about time for this to happen) and Scotland gaining its independence. Sometimes, for all kinds of reasons, countries do commit suicide or amputation and there is nothing that can stop the drift to disaster.
24
The "British public" didn't vote for Brexit. A majority of voters in both Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to Remain. Wales with its small population voted to Leave but the driving force behind Brexit has always been England. Brexit is about English nationalism plain and simple which is a key reason why one result of all this will likely be the disolution of the United Kingdom.
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@ADRz The Leave vote represented only 27% of the British electorate. Furthermore, it was a dishonest campaign based on simplistic lies, fraud and overspending.
Plus the disenfranchisement of millions of UK residents living abroad.
5
Here in Finland, the center-left party has come up with an absolutely brilliant slogan for the current EU elections: "We don't brexit, we fix it!" (Parenthetically, it says something about the near-literacy in English of most Finns that a message like this can work.) I first saw it on the side of a bus in busy traffic, on a bad, depressing day, and it made me feel sheer joy -- for its intelligence as well as its optimistic message.
If the Remainers in the UK had been able to come up with something as brilliant and optimistic as this, and to unite behind it, perhaps things might have been different. Right now, the UK is broken indeed.
162
@Ellen Valle
It's a clever slogan, but Britain is divided, so "fixing it" isn't an option for many. The idea is too simplistic. In the UK as in the US, there is marked polarization, with opposing sides digging their heels in. (See the "Mc Connell Court" that rules the US supreme court now, and watch the country slide.) This is happening globally too: witness recent elections and wins for nationalism. I think we can expect things to get much darker before they get better.
17
@Maura: I agree that it's way too late now. In fact, I don't see any possible solution that won't leave half the UK angry, embittered and resentful, thus adding more fuel to the populist fires. But if a more positive, healing attitude had been adopted at the beginning, soon after the referendum, who knows?
I also think that in a referendum on something of this magnitude the threshold to make the result binding should be much higher than a simple majority -- what was it in June 2016, 52%? Something like 66% or 75 % might be more appropriate.
At least some of those votes (like some Trump votes in November 2016) were apparently "protest votes", cast by people who were unhappy about something but didn't necessarily want to leave the EU; they also didn't think their vote would make a difference. Now, however, their attitudes have hardened into such rage, they'll never be able to change their minds.
It's strange that no-one now mentions Cameron; he's the one who "broke it".
20
@Ellen Valle Not to mention in the US as well. If only Obama had the courage to stand up to McConnell and make the country aware of Russia's war on American democracy. If only Hillary had connected with the rust belt. If only the Democrats had retaliated with their own bumper stickers, slogans, media events, and used Facebook to defend themselves against false messages. If only.....
8
Forever the optimist, I wondered to myself the other day if maybe things everywhere will go back to normal in a few years.
People like Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, and Trump, will eventually fall out of favor, and we can start to survey the damage they left behind and start making repairs.
So happy to see that so far ... those sort of folks have stayed out of power in France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany.
28
...50 years later: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-economy-brexit_uk_5b54e3b5e4b0de86f48e3566
Rees-Mogg: “The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”
Intelligent and articulate, Theresa May's downfall was her stubbornness—obstinacy.
A second referendum would have shown her to be a practical steward, righting the ship-of-state. Instead she kept reiterating that in a democracy the "will of the people" must be carried out.
But Ms. May, it would still be the will of the people if a second—more informed—referendum were held.
24
@srwdm very correct, but for the Tories the will of the people is only respected if it coincides with the wishes of their own electorate.
7
@srwdm The electoral mess of the British MEPS casts doubt on the UK's ability to effect a fair People's Vote campaign.
@robert Very similar to the Grand Ole Party. I think you are basically calling them out as "hypocrites".
Note: Corbyn is leading the polls. In an election against a No Deal Boris, with Farage maybe leaching right-wing votes, you can be sure Labour will win it. Boris has to try and avoid an election until Exit Day, but might fall at any moment if any Boris-hating or anti-No Deal Tories walk out or side with the opposition in a No Confidence vote.
All Corbyn has to do is offer an alternative to a nasty, cruel right-wing Tory country and a savage Tory Brexit. It beats all normal, logical politics. Ignore the Euro elections - they are always a protest, as are council elections, a kneejerk warning encouraged by our terrible electoral system. Corbyn will have the left and the centre and probably a few on the moderate right too, such is the fear of No Deal. It won’t be a landslide, but will still get a small majority or be a minority govt with first go at forming a coalition in a hung parliament.
Brexit eschews normal business, and the desire to “get the Tories out” is very strong - No Deal amplifies this tenfold. Obtaining the largest number of tactical votes to kick them out will probably be on many people’s minds in an election, and will trump all normal ideology and rationale.
6
@Mat And when a Corbyn government runs out of money - like many of the previous Labour administrations have done... Then what??? Check out Liam Byrnes not as he departed from the Treasury when G Brown lost the 2010 election... " Sorry, there's no money left."
Typical of them to promise to eradicate all problems with other peoples (the Taxpayer) money... Corbyn is an idiot fronting for Marxist hard nuts. God save us if they win government.
Scotland leaves the UK taking Northern Ireland with it (border problem solved); the rest of the UK tumbles into irrelevance. The Brexit vote was not a democratic process; that is the big lie underlying the Brexit strategies. The proper next step is for Parliament to revoke Article 50.
18
The the situation in Great Britain(or I should say England) reminds me of Klaatu's admonition in the The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951 film) "Join us and live in peace, or pursue your present course and face obliteration." Replace "us" with the "EU" or "multilateralism." Klaatu also said "I am fearful when I see people substituting fear for reason." What a striking parallelism! Herbert Simon categorized humans as agents of bounded rationality, but British politicians seem to have become agents of unbounded irrationality. Who could have guessed!
5
Good opinion piece. BREXIT suffered from two fundamental flaws: it represented a complex situation with pernicious simplicity; and it saw political leadership abdicate its responsibility to lead.
If Britain's elected leadership needed a referendum to set policy, then it should have been no more than an advisory vote to gauge the British people's inclination to leave the EU subject to determining both the feasibility and the opportunity cost of doing so. Assuming that whatever was once joined can then be put asunder, the British political leadership should have been charged to assess the economic and political impacts of withdrawal for the British people then to appreciate the consequences of moving forward. Instead they used a referendum for predetermination of policy before even knowing whether it was viable or at what cost.
May's exit changes nothing. The British political system will continue to spiral downward, as some more audacious panderer steps up with greater assurance of delivering the impossible. One wonders whether Churchill would feel vindicated to see every critique he ever made against representative democracy confirmed; or be saddened to see how this confirmation is being played out by devastating his country.
If this chaos was truly born of British xenophobia, then how ironic an outcome, isn't it, for a country that owes its wealth and global prominence from violating the sovereignty of societies on every continent it ever reached.
175
Hugely ironic and an excellent analysis you make. We know the truth but the Tory party persist with their 30 year pet project. Brexit is stupid but then so are our representatives. Few party leaders have been prepared to counter the lies and explain the long term consequences. A country that has lost track of reality.
Voting according to perceived grievances has been championed. Leadership which allows ignorance and populism to flourish for the sake of unworkable shibboleths is hardly good governance. Reality has taken leave of its senses and the UK will be poorer and diminished in the process.
Across the globe citizens in countries desperate for democracy are putting their lives on the line so that their voices can be heard. We, who have eaten of the fatted calf have grown lazy in pursuit of truth, preferring jingoistical rallies to satisfy our emptiness.
Delusion and allowing your mind to play tricks on you makes no sense at all.
16
@Gu
The British people must realize that in history ALL noble empires fall one way or another. They have Brexit, we here in the US have Trump.
Let's get on with the hard Brexit and the economic chaos that will ensue. When that slows the world's economy, and ours, we can blame Trump and warn that his re-election will mean the same here.
Why do liberals and moderates, there and here, continue to try to save people from what they want? Give them what they want and let them reap what they sow.
18
@Paul: If that was a serious question, the answer is beyond simplicity: because we'll all suffer equally from the result. We're all in this together: in this city, this country, this world, this planet. Ultimately, there's no "us" or "them". We can't secede from the human race. We all live or die, rise or fall together. Unfortunately, that seems to be a lesson that's fatally difficult to learn.
Sorry to use such extravagant rhetoric, but I don't know how else to answer your question.
28
@Paul I wholeheartedly agree. Elections have consequences and people get the government they deserve. Trump's propped up "winning" will not last. For every up there is a down; for every high there is a low; for every criminal misdeed there is punishment. He will reap what he sows. Guaranteed.
1
One of the reasons Brexit succeeded was because its proponents played upon the fear of immigrants. We need to fully examine what is going on in Western democracies. It seems to me that Russia is the greater danger not immigrants. Russia has played a role in the US Presidential election, Brexit, the candidacy of Marie Le Pen, and the Austrian scandal. It is interfering in the current European elections. And Russia has fans among the so called populists in the US and Europe.
I hope that the British don’t allow those like Johnson and Farage to have positions of leadership. They need to be kept on the fringe as they aren’t interested in the well being of Britain. Didn’t they receive help from the Russians for the Brexit campaign?
And then there is Steve Bannon. See: www.nytimes.com/2019/05/18/opinion/steve-bannon-matteo-salvini.html
47
@M. Natália Clemente Vieira
And why not call for a new election? This way the British could let the politicians if they in fact want to leave the EU.
4
@M. Natália Clemente Vieira Bingo--Bannon has been in Europe and elsewhere ever since he left the WH. It was planned all along--he never had a falling out with Trump--Bannon is up to his eyeballs in everything Russian. Always was and still is.
5
It is time for Scotland and Wales to leave the UK and let Trumpist England disintegrate. We are watching what was considered the worlds most stable democracy die.
76
Brexit, along with the disaster of the Iraq war will be forever the legacy of Blair, possibly the worst political leader Great Britain has ever had the misfortune to elect.
3
@Bob Tonnor David Cameron and the Tories owns Brexit, The referendum was an attempt to keep the Tory right wing under control. Cameron ran a terrible campaign and lost more to Tory austerity than a desire to leave. If one blames Blair, then Thatcher too is to blame, since she started the UK on the road to extreme income disparity,
84
@Bob Tonnor
No, all blame and responsibility stays with the Conservatives. David Cameron was too smart by half: He believed that a referendum would deliver him a remain vote, but it didn't. Cameron saw the mess he had made of things and the looming disaster that the stay vote delivered, and quit.
May took on the job but never had a hope against the likes of Boris and his scheming henchmen, none of whom have any idea other than to kill, kill, kill.
Now the same mob of clueless hyenas are circling May's still warm carcass and will tear it to pieces. Then they'll go hide again until the next sacrificial dope comes along.
Thye odds still favor crashing out of the EU, followed by the dissolution of Britain, long past greaq, into constituent pieces of England and Wales, Scotland seceding and joining the EU, and Northern Ireland devolving back into a shooting war between warring religious factions. Lovely.
11
@Maurie Beck : On the devolution of Northern Ireland: This may just be wishful, but I hope that it would work. The Republic of Ireland is no longer blindly loyal to the Pope. Perhaps that is the legacy of clerical sexual abuse. Given that, I hope that Protestants of the north can reconcile themselves to the greater good of a united Ireland.
The UK has no bargaining leverage with the EU. It will get the brexit agreement that the EU is willing to give it and no other. It is particularly hamstrung by the Irish border issue and the demands of Northern Ireland.
The Empire is long gone and the United Kingdom is nothing more in influence or importance a small US state.
14
more accurately on the brink of MORE chaos....
8
"Both are men gifted in the dark arts."
I hear Hogwarts is always looking for a new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. A perfect place for both of them.
10
I’m afraid there are enough bigots and deplorables in the UK that support Brexit to “cut off their noses in spite of their faces” and drive their economy off the cliff.
Much like the people in the Red states here, they want to go back to the the past where Britain was a world power.
The risk to their economy by exiting the EU is enormous and will hamper future generations by limiting their access to markets that work together. Let’s be honest, the world is getting smaller and tariffs and trade barriers didn’t work in the past; why do they think the will work now?
The Brits were sold a “bill of goods” on Brexit and are past the point of no return. They deserve better.
77
When Boris Johnson was in line for a far less significant job, horrified critics likened the prospect to entrusting a gorilla with a Ming vase. Calamity is about to visit both shores of the Atlantic.
151
If you study innovation and creativity, you learn that being on the brink of chaos is not a bad place to be. In fact, that is the best place to be.
Too much order means stagnation. Too much chaos means anarchy. The brink, or more commonly the edge, of chaos is a Goldilocks zone between order and chaos that is just right for making needed changes.
Best of luck to Boris Johnson (if he is chosen) as he joins Donald Trump to dance on the brink of chaos.
4
Brink? I’d say we’re already over the edge and hurtling headlong into the abyss.
1
@John Smithson
If you understand "brink" you know that this post is hazy nonsense. The question is what brink; what are the details? It's the same kind of hazy, fatuous nonsense (aided by a well-funded campaign of lies) that led to Brexit.
@John Smithson Johnson's luck may well run out before a year has past -- but that will be as nothing compared to what awaits the country at large. And if Corbyn becomes his successor, we can have a real test of suggestions that the Labor party is (fatally?) contaminated with anti-semitism -- until then those claims look too much like a public relations campaign orchestrated by partisans of Israel.
1
Perhaps the UK should take this opportunity to reset on Brexit and instead force a discussion to address the fundamental issues of the EU that led to Brexit in the first place.
Such as having a single, elected, accountable leader would be a good start.
5
If anything imported from or via passage through the EU
has already been certified when it was made in the EU
or first entered the EU, why does there need to be a
Customs Check at Dover ?
No nation can survive when anyone can immigrate
to it and take jobs away from native born citizens.
Yes, London has had an influx of Rich Foreigners who have
turned sections of it into ghost towns.
Not a single nephew or niece or grandnephew or grandniece
live in the London their grandparents grew up in as they have been priced out.
Globablisation of the World Economy may be a fact
but that does not mean that everyone wants to or has
the means or talent to move anywhere in the world.
As for the Border between Ireland and Northern Ireland -
what need is there for thorough Custom inspections ?
Those who wish to study abroad can still do so,
as I did when I was their age.
5
You have this the wrong way around. Britain might not need customs inspections of EU products, but the EU will most certainly need customs inspections of anything coming from a Britain that is no longer bound by EU standards...
15
@S North
Well why doesn't Britain just build to the EU
Standards those items it wishes to sell in the EU ?
6
@John Brown The UK voted to leave the EU--the EU does not owe the UK anything. The UK is now the "minority" and will have to exit on the EU's terms. Period.
5
While I favor a second referendum, as it's the only option for letting the public pull the UK back from the brink, I sincerely hope that this has shown them the folly of government by referendum.
The average John and Jane on the street is utterly incapable of understanding the ramifications of withdrawal from the European Union, which took years of careful deliberation and negotiation to bring to fruition. Alliances like this aren't like the tablecloth in the old trick where you can just whip it out from under the place settings and they all remain on the table relatively unscathed. The amount of scatter and damage will be substantial, and probably more substantial than anyone who deluded themselves in believing there would be none, and tried to sell that lie, would ever believe or admit to.
There is a reason that public policy and economic policy is not set by dilettantes, and should not be. The average man or woman on the street is not even aware enough of the ramifications to be considered a dilettante.
Representative democracies, and the complex bureaucracies they all have, developed for a good reason: expertise is required to run them. Lets elect subject matter experts, or at the very least employ same as public servants, and defer to them when complex questions outside our own areas of expertise arise. We do that, after all, in virtually all other aspects of life. We used to do that routinely with regard to governance, too. We need to do so again.
372
I will be using the brilliant tablecloth trick analogy and crediting guyslp from Staunton, Virginia!
13
@guyslp
The only fly in the ointment in this country, is that our representatives are increasingly ill informed or owned outright by corporations, the wealthy and foreign powers.
With an electorate that 1/3 of which gets it's information from conspiracy theory news networks...we are circling the bowl at this point.
30
@guyslp,
"I sincerely hope that this has shown them the folly of government by referendum."
Except that representative democracy very easily devolves into nothing but a source of noise. C.f. India, U.S.A., U.K., Italy. Democracy has always demanded the highest form of maturity among all who will use it, but that level of maturity is hard to sustain; it demands continual, deliberate effort. It seems many modern societies are no longer prepared to sustain that effort.
The thing that can make direct democracy (government by referendum) hazardous is the plain fact that that mode of democracy demands an even higher level of maturity from its society than representative democracy. Thus you don't see many instances of it (Switzerland, maybe?).
"Representative democracies, and the complex bureaucracies they all have, developed for a good reason: expertise is required to run them."
Expertise is required for good governance. Period. It is not at all clear to me that any particular mode of democratic government is better at providing that. That is an attribute of the society, rather than the mode of democracy in use by that society.
16
Don't forget that one of the main motivators for Brexit was the uncontrolled migration of immigrants into Britain. May just refused to address this issue in an honest way. That issue is not going away, and is does make a lot of sense. Economics isn't the governing factor in all of our actions.
9
@Raz Long before Brexit, Britain allowed many persons from the Commonwealth to immigrate--especially when India became it's own sovereign country. Long before the EU, Britain has had people immigrate from every part of the world--India, Pakistan, Africa, Canada, Caribbean, Australia, etc. They were probably one of the most multi cultural countries along with the US and Canada.
2
@Raz
The EU gave the UK the liberty to impose stricter rules and it was the UK that opted not to (because underpaid immigrants make the shabby British economy go round).
@Raz
You're right about the main motivator being immigrants; call it what it is: RACISM. Economics isn't the governing factor, hate is.
But by voting their hate, the unwashed, unskilled, racists in Britain go down first as the British economy tanks.
It seems like the best outcome for the UK, from a UK-centric view, is the so-called "worst of both worlds" customs union-only participation. Since the two sides cannot agree to remain or leave, it is possible they can agree on this.
1
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't BoJo withdraw from the original push for a new Prime Minister right after the Brexit vote? He was serious about disrupting, that doesn't mean he will be serious about governing.
37
@Christopher
That withdrawal was tactical, not strategic. He will go for it if he can, he will take the job if he can, he will destroy the UK.
4
At a time when global trade is in flux and becoming the norm rather than the exception, it is hard to believe the UK may leave behind 600 million customers. The second question is why the Brits reminisce the greatness of the British Empire, there is no more conquest to make; colonialism is out, imperialism is out, dominance by proxy wars is out, the only thing left is hard work, cheap labor, creativity, AI, etc, -global trade is making the world a very small place, and widening opportunities for everyone. If immigration is the problem, then work with similar EU countries who feel the same, and change the rules within the EU.
57
@Afrikanneer, seems like the logical thing to do but apparently common sense is a limited resource in the UK these days.
3
@Afrikanneer '...colonialism is out, imperialism is out...'
I think you should wait a minute and consult the Chinese, because that is what all of will be doing soon enough.
1
The Empire things comes from the fact it’s treated with such kid gloves because it’s so delicate, so ends up being glossed over. It has its apologists, applauders and it’s naysayers and there’s no consensus. Too much “Yes that bit was bad but...”. If it tries to be taught honestly then there’s normally a hue and cry from somewhere, “unpatriotic”, “liberal brainwashing”, “talking the country down” etc etc and of course, it’s easy to miss an empire if all you have of it are hazy inherited memories of it, skewed history and if you didn’t actually live under it.
The other comes from imagined halcyon memories. No-one can fail to see the decline in stature or modernisation of the country and its values, but certain demographics look back at twee, make-believe memories and sink into sentimentality and think that many modern perceived evils (“the nanny state”, “the EU”, “foreigners”, “you couldn’t say that now”, “going to the dogs”, “not allowed to be patriotic anymore”) have conspired to made us weaker and degrade our once proud, Lion-like country(!). A cosseted, bitter attitude doesn’t help in an understanding of how the modern world of trade and geopolitics really works.
But no, they say, we’ve just got weaker - but if we only discovered the sleeping Lion within then we could be great again! And India would be at the door begging for a trade deal! And we could bring back imperial coinage and blue passports!
Sigh.
3
What a strange confluence of factors are at work in the UK. With the Labour Party seemingly wishy-washy on Brexit, more against things than anything else, along with the Tories moving rightward towards a harder (or complete) withdrawal,we are looking at an electorate, the British voting public, wanting a Second Referendum to cancel Brexit altogether, but with no prominent party to represent them. Petitions are nice, but lack the power that some states over here have, where petitions by enough registered voters can, by law, put an issue on the ballot. It has been the growing realization that, all things considered, the credits far outweigh the debits with European membership. Now all those good people need to find someone to speak for their interests. I wish them well.
32
Paraphrasing a great detective, once all Brexit options are discarded a second vote, however improbable, will inexorably happen.
16
@Ricardo more likely that the UK will disintegrate
5
I don’t get it. If the majority want to devote against brexit than why is a brexit party going to the European Parliament?
11
I had the exact same question. It sounds like the media is lying that a Brexit redo would result in a different outcome. Clearly the UK populace wants out of the EU. The problem is that most of Parliament knows that the result will be economic catastrophe so they further the lie that the people really want to remain. They don't. it's the people who decide in a democracy, not politicians or the media. Hard Brexit will happen by autumn. Until then, strap in for a long, hot British summer.
4
@Sean Casey junior
What I don't understand is why a Brexit party even wants to be in the European parliament? I mean what good can they do in a place they don't believe in?
It's very Monty Python.
4
@MJGWrong--the Brexit vote was basically split 50-50. The EU elections are now due and since there has been no Brexit deal agreed upon--the UK needs to still have a seat in the EU--technically they are still a part of the EU--their economy is still integrated into the EU economy.
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The Brits voted for Brexit not so much out of nostalgia for the Empire as out of xenophobia
Joining the EU brought prosperity, highly paid banking jobs by the thousands, while the industrial north collapsed. Successive conservative governments and even labor ones, cut the taxes of those who were already prospering, cut social and government services to the bone for those who were not. Meanwhile, millions of Europeans migrated to Europe's largest tax haven attracted by a booming economy in and around London.
The elites and upper middle class are now being punished for their greed. Had they shared some of the wealth by paying more taxes, Britons would probably have voted NO to the referendum. The working class will suffer most from Brexit, but they are used to it. From their perspective, at least they won't be the only ones.
Of course, parliament probably will continue to obfuscate until the next election, provided the EU plays along and keeps postponing the date of Brexit. What happens in the next election, is anybody's guess. How about Nigel Farage as the new prime minister...
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@rapatoul Sounds very similar to the US. Maybe the answer to the US woes is for the Red and Blue states to separate. Give Trump his poor, yahoo, opioid riddled states and let the Dems have the Blue winning states. Problem solved.
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@rapatoul the upper class will relocate.
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Boris Johnson as PM will cause Brits to consider how hard and with what integrity Teresa May tried to do an impossible job. Some may even regret not supporting her as the Brexit process went from bad to worse. Besides this little bit of historical revisionism the only good that can come out of a Johnson government is the realization of how low populism has taken us all.
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Do you think May did the job with integrity? I don't. She attempted to implement the result of a deeply flawed referendum because she liked it's outcome, she clung to her position for far longer than was reasonable given the almost unanimous rejection of her initiatives, she was driven by her personal ambitions and the preferences of her party rather than the interests of her country. If Brits are left regretting the loss of her integrity, it will only be because her successor has no integrity whatsoever, which, I am sorry to say, is entirely possible.
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@The Dog Johnson will damage Britain irreparably. He is a born liar and a feckless destroyer, driven by heedless ambition to dominate. He thrives on rancor, division and hatred. In other words, Britain's version of Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if his leadership led to Scotland breaking away, and even Northern Ireland deciding union with Ireland to be a safer bet (no doubt after another deadly "time of troubles"). The result: England reduced to an inconsequential rump state by its own leadership.
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@The Dog
Trump is destroying the U.S.A. -- and Johnson is a British Trump.
As much as Britain deserves to be punished for its Brexit folly, no civilization deserves to suffer the miseries the Republicans are inflicting upon America.
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A comeback for Boris Johnson? He disappeared after bemoaning that his dream of Brexit was dead! There simply is no way of seeing through Brexit without crippling ramifications. Boris Johnson isn’t going to be any more masterful than Ms. May, but it would be satisfying to see him go down with the cynical scheme he helped to sell.
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It is rather baffling that UK, with only 66M pop, think that it could rise, like the Phoenix, from the ashes to once again be GREAT BRITAIN. The EU has over 500M and most of the countries are industrious, making the EU a worthy opponent in most ways to the US, which has 320M.
Look at the reality, the US productivity is on a decline bent while the EU, being led by Germany, is on a up stream. Germany has even turned all those refuges that it took in into a very important part of its new productivity in a time when skilled and semi-skilled labor is in huge demand and those new people really want to prove that they can earn their way.
In the end, the question is; Is the New UK going to be able to swim the stormy seas alone. Trump and even Australia are too far to be there when they are needed, if, indeed, they would come.
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@WorldPeace2017
How could a European nation possibly expect to maintain economic prosperity without being contractually bonded to an artificial political association like the EU? Perhaps we should consult the Swiss.
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@WorldPeace2017 Germany has not turned its refugees into new productivity as skilled and semi-skilled labor.
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@JWB
Switzerland is contractually bonded to the EU by a series of bilateral treaties which allows it access to EU markets without actually being a member.
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Glad to see the Times has finally discovered there's life across the pond. Yes, they have reported "facts" and the who's-up-and-who's-down horse races, but rarely (except for Roger Cohen and David Sanger) with any substantive perspective and analysis. Perhaps if they had been more attuned to the goings on in Europe these past half dozen year, they would not have been so surprised when Trump won in 2016. The internationalist elites of all sorts all over the Western world were so complacently busy talking to each other, that they lost touch with their own peoples.
The wars in the Balkans following the dissolution of Yugoslavia should have woken up the European leadership that there were fundamental problems that needed to be addressed. It didn't. When John Major called for a Brexit vote, it was with the smug certainty it would end discussion of Britain leaving the E.U. Then, Brexit should have woken up the Democratic Party that something was going on they didn't get, that the "natives were restless" all over, here also, that "same old same old" for the system would no longer work, despite the huge economic and other advancement of the preceding fifty years, despite the fact that since Viet Nam, our wars were essentially outsourced to a small segment of American society. It didn't.
The result: a President Trump here, political chaos in Great Britain, and the rise of genuinely popular anti-democratic and anti-liberal values (in the traditional sense) forces in Europe.
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@Steve Fankuchen
It seems the lesson still has not been learned here, as the Democratic Party leaders are trying their hardest to stay the course, push a candidate like Joe Biden, and say that Medicare for All won't happen (this stance pleases corporate donors). If this is the "party line", it will once again be a losing one. Income inequality is too great, wages are too stagnant, and our giant war budgets are unsustainable.
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@Ellen
Ellen, thank you for engaging!
The way I see it, the biggest problem with medicine is not the very real lack of insurance but the lack of access because nobody, neither Democrats nor Republicans nor the media, is talking about it. An article in the Albuquerque Journal last winter noted that the largest health plan in the state did not have a single primary care doctor accepting new patients. It also stated that in Massachusetts with the highest doctor/patient ratio in the country, the average to make an appointment with a new doctor was 57 days.
As to Joe Biden: I believe that, so far, he is the only candidate who has credibility with and knows how to speak to Obama/Trump voters. Realistically the election will come down to about five states. More Democratic votes in California and more Republican votes in Alabama are irrelevant. Only the Dems can reelect Trump, but if they don't pick a candidate who can resonate in those few states, and if they continue with their circular firing squad, they will effectively reelect Trump. Of course it is still possible that a candidate will come out of "nowhere" much as Bill Clinton did and catch on.
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It was David Cameron, not John Major, who called for the Brexit vote. It's bad enough I blew it by hitting SUBMIT before rereading what I wrote. However, I find it far more disheartening that nobody noticed and called me on it, especially those recommending what I wrote.
I didn't write an ALTERNATIVE FACT; I was just plain wrong. Sorry!
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They broke it, now they own it. The British voters who got bamboozled into following the far-right, anti-EU propaganda must face the consequences. And to add insult to injury, the likelihood of a B. Johnson as Prime Minister will further drive the country into chaos.
To take one example, the UK already has one of the worst public healthcare systems (thousands travel to France weekly for basic care), what will happen when all agreements and treaties with European neighbors are cut off?
And can anyone picture B. Johnson trying to handle the Irish border situation once the UK is out of the EU? Can they afford another war like in the 1970s?
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We’d still take the NHS over the US system, any day of the week. And the numbers who go abroad are small and are often for voodoo healthcare the NHS has no patience for. Saved my life dozens of times. Open heart surgery with not a penny handed over? Thankyou. Transplant list without having to fundraise first? Brilliant.
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@Mat
Free heart transplant? that's great. But this is more like the exception to the rule, you know pretty well that the British healthcare system is in disarray. People who cross the Channel for dental care, or ambulatory surgery do not call it "voodoo." And there is no need to bring up the American system, which is non-existent, a real laughing stock among industrialized nations.
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@Mat
My understanding is the only complaint about the NHS is that the Tory austerity budgets have been hard on it - and many other services. It - and other countries' sensible healthcare-for-all programs - are the envy of us here in the U.S., stuck as we are with Corporate Health Care. Just ridiculous in this day and age - costly, with lousy results for the money.
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I think that a fair number of Brexiteers are dazzled by the prospect of return to a now vanished mirage of a lost empire - no longer even a remote prospect. They may instead find themselves marooned on an isolated little island - and lose Scotland and Northern Ireland into the bargain. Hurrah for Little England!
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Well, the UK and Ireland might well be considered more like independent sovereign nations in a region with similar interests, sort of another Scandinavia but possibly less civilized. Ireland is seperate already of course, Scotland could choose independence as well, with or without membership in the EU, Wales I assume would stay with England, Northern Ireland would make its decisions, or fall into chaos perhaps, a state which it seems close to anyway. The Brexiteers have already opted for a course of action which fractures the union, such as it is, and creates the problems for which there is no solution, and they want to forge ahead anyway. So go ahead, blow it up, let the chips fall where they may, Boris and the conservatives and Farage and his group can take responsibility for the consequences.
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@gbc1 I am touched that there is a possibility that any of the cast of characters in this mess might take responsibility for any of their actions !
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@Davidthats the most likely result of a hard Brexit.
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