There's also the alleged Gulf of Tonkin incident and least we forget, George W Bush's administration changed to status of missing US Navy pilot Scott Speicher from "missing in action to "missing/captured" to help make case for war against Iraq.
2
Wonder how many missiles the US has in the Gulf?
1
Trump claimed during the 2016 campaign that he loves war. And followed that with bragging that he knows more than our generals. And the basis for his knowledge is he watches a lot of TV.
And we should all fear whatever the cast at Fox News plants in Trump's head about Iran, the state-run media at Fox has been hugely successful at manipulating Trump to take actions.
Certainly Trump sees the advantage of being a Wartime President. Any criticism of a wartime Trump will be met head-on by the White House with accusations of appeasement of our "enemies".
3
The current war in Afghanistan isn't lucrative enough; therefore, the military-industrial complex needs a bigger one. Iran (a familiar villain) fits the bill perfectly.
1
Indian dissident and writer Arundhati Roy recently spoke at the Apollo Theatre, saying of US aggression against Iran: “Over these last few years - given the wars it has waged and the international treaties it has arbitrarily reneged on - the US government perfectly fits its own definition of a rouge state. And now, resorting to the same old scare tactics, the same tired falsehoods and the same old fake news about nuclear weapons, it’s gearing up to bomb Iran. That will be the biggest mistake it has ever made.”
3
Trump’s businesses are bleeding cash endlessly. I wouldn’t be surprised that the Saudis & Russians are bribing Trump for huge political favors like attacking Iran or removing Russian sanctions. Trump’s businesses won’t be able to stay afloat much longer without more huge loans or cash infusions.
Another Republican President, another threat of war without any basis in fact. Why is it that every time a Republican gets into office they want to kill people in other countries? Too many American lives have been wasted not to mention trillions of dollars and we are still fighting!
4
Hamas and Hezbollah it is critical that you prevent related militia groups from responding to US or Israeli provocations. They are looking for the slightest excuse to launch all out warfare. They are also looking for ways to disempower the resistance they expect in their launch of the Kushner-Netanyahu so-called "peace plan".
Just sit tight and constantly remind the world that you support human rights under international law,
1
Instability in the Middle East = high oil prices and weapons/ammo sales.
Add Netanyahu’s agenda and the likely war president approval rating bump, and the picture is clear.
Nothing the Shiites say or do (like the nuclear agreement) matters, they will always be the target and excuse to set the Middle East on fire.
3
"Its difficult to determine Iran's intentions since their elected leadership and gov't often sound reasonable." What kind of reporting is that? Trump has already declared economic war on Iran. Bolton is a well know warmonger. Prince Mohammed is a deadly religious fanatic. Israel has used its power in the US to get it involved in their deadly games. Iraq would have been left to the tender mercies of ISIS after the Iraqi Army's rout at Mosul if not for Iranian militias. This all goes back to Bush's war in Iraq. If there had been a better outcome, from Bush's point of view, the US would have attacked Syria and Iran. Then the mushroom clouds that Bush and Rice foresaw would have been a reality. All this talk of Iran's connection with terrorism and having a hidden nuclear arsenal are lies.
3
“The Iraqi government is responsible for protecting American interests in Iraq,” he added. “We will become the enemy of anyone who does something against American interests.”
Iraq is now nothing more than America’s indentured servant? Who can blame Iran.
2
Why is everyone here defending Iran so much???? Iran is an anti-Western, authoritarian country that hates America. We should not be defending them. (And don't try and tell me that they hate us because of what we have done to them, we have only done what is needed to protect ourselves)
2
I am a Gulf War veteran. My son is not fighting in any Trump manufactured war with anyone. Period. And its a safe bet no son of this charlatan of a president or his congressional syncophants will either.
3
I hear they're bringing in Colin Powell to give us a really terrific powerpoint presentation.
1
The international situation fast approaching dystopia and, "being nice" toward Iran won't work considering its proxy wars in Syria, Gaza, Yemen, heavy involvement in Lebanon and nuclear projects.
We must take a risk and see what works , what does not.
There is no "right thing" and "wrong thing" v-a-vis Iran. Only "try-and-fail" or "try and succeed"
For now, Trump's strategy appears to be effective.
Let's wait and see.
1
I'm bothered by the tone of resignation so many have regarding the inevitability of war. We should already be in the streets. The cost of the Iraq War has not been paid for yet although a few thousand paid with their lives over one this country's biggest blunder. I will be making phone calls every day and if there's a protest against war, I will be there.
Democracy requires active participation.
There is no greater reason for getting active than to thwart Trump's next great looming disaster.
5
Bolton has engineered an incredibly dangerous situation.
There are many factions that would love to draw the US into a War with Iran - and under current conditions, it would be very easy to do that.
If US forces or "interests" are attacked right now, we have Gulf of Tonkin all over again.
Congress must demand not mere "consultation", but must force Trump to withdraw US forces from the region.
4
Where are the Democrats and the House in general regarding this issue? Surely we should be seeing some commentary on the prospects of a widening conflict in the Middle East. If nothing else we should hear about the futility of the proposed trillion dollars Infrastructure spending, when it appears that we will negate this thought as the President and Mr. Bolton appear to really want a armed conflict with Iran to dovetail to the next election cycle.
24
America is bullying Iran (has been since 1979) and this won't end well.
8
John Bolton’s belligerence is highly troubling. His saber-rattling could create a miscalculation on the ground. Although Iran’s leadership – Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif spoke earlier in Tokyo today – was exercising “maximum restraint,” it does not have control over the Shia militias in Iraq.
It’s widely known that the reform-minded President Hassan Rouhani is at loggerheads with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Quds Force that are hostile towards the US. They wield enormous influence over the proxy forces from Lebanon to Syria, which could attack US personnel. This would provoke a devastating response from Washington that in turn could prompt an escalation.
It remains to be seen how long Trump can resist Bolton. So far he fears plunging the US in another war.
He once slammed George W. Bush and called the Iraq War the “worst single mistake” in US history. His political support was built in part on the idea that he would not repeat such a costly expenditure of American blood and treasure.
9
I heard an argument that justified the US's - and Europe's - use of "interventions" in the oil rich countries of the region as simply necessary to rebuilding after WWII - we needed that oil.supply.
It would be refreshing to see a discussion of our history there with raw takes on the bottom line reasons for our policies, unfiltered with claims about spreading democracy.
How much of our growth in past years did rest on keeping some control over a region, where, in addition to traditional disputes, power meant the ability to gain from their natural resources?
Would the country have supported those policies, which veer far from our mythology, because we wanted that oil? Possibly.
In this area, Trump's blatant refusal to hold the Saudis responsible for the murder of Kashoggi is simply more visible than what other administrations have done. Is there any reason for those countries to trust anything proposed by the US as being in their interests?
What is it not possible to negotiate with Iran? We don't have to be buddies; just strike agreements we can live with. We won't end up with better arrangements if the region is torn by one more frenzy of destruction
6
The Bush administration found it necessary to provide evidence, albeit fake, to justify regime change in Iraq.
The Trump administration doesn't even bother to provide fake evidence. They just go for it.
Why? Same reason as for the national emergency on telecom, the soft war on China, the fear mongering against immigrants, the antagonism to Western Europe. Create diversions, rally the supporters, the nationalists on the one hand and the financial beneficiaries (from lower taxes, from more government arms expenditure, from shutting out telecom competition worldwide) to stay in power and move ahead with their dark policies that will make us more like Hungary, Poland, Turkey, the Philippines rather than Western Europe.
13
Iranian militias were in Iraq helping to fight ISIS. Think about that for a moment.
Iran is Shia Muslim. Both ISIS and AL QUAEDA are Sunni. Iran opposes both ISIS and AL QUAEDA.
Yet to hear Bolton and Pompeo tell it, Iran is the source of all terrorism in the Middle East.
I have no doubt the Iranians have made mistakes; name one single state in the ME who hasn't?
But they are not the historical font of all terrorism. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of Islamic history should know this.
38
@Paul McGlasson - Good point. These are the same lying war mongers who said that Saddam Hussein was hosting Al Qaeda; a group that despised him. A little knowledge goes a long way in being able to spot such lies.
21
The joke is Saudi Arabia, American greatest ally, had the same salafist roots has these organizations and has had part of its elite support them directly (e. g. Ben Laden). None of this is aimed to "secure" and stabilicize the region, and if terrorism there is, it is those that destroy these countries (Yemen) .
7
Trump desperately needs a war to ensure reelection and thus avoid prison. The default assumption is that the White House is lying. Trump alone has lied more than 10,000 times. His lie that he was opposed to the Iraq war is a particular case in point. They are all working very hard to justify their feckless cancellation of our first black president's Iran agreement, which, though not perfect, was pretty good. They were not opposed to the Iran agreement per se. They were opposed to the fact that we had had a black president who had the nerve to be so much superior to Trump (Turnip) himself. The Republicans--including Bolton himself--lied about WMD in Iraq in order to get us into the second Iraq war. They all need a war. Nobody in their right mind would trust them. Congress, please do not authorize this.
34
Have the US not destroyed enough countries in the middle east already? The US overthrew Iran's democratically elected leader and installed the Shah as dictator, thus sparking so much of the problems we see today. Iran revolted against the Shah, and the new regime was naturally not positively inclined towards the US. Even less so when the US shot down an Iranian passenger jet, killing civilians.
Then the US encouraged Iraqi to attack Iran, and even gave them weapons of mass destruction to help them. It left both countries destroyed.
But it was not enough. After the first Gulf was Iraqi suffered under heavy sanctions. Then they got invaded under false pretense and destroy even more. The Chaos that followed created ISIS and destabilized Syria from the massive influx of refugees from Iraqi. Thus causing yet another bloody civil war, after the US caused a bloody civil war in Iraqi.
They caused a bloody civil war in Libya as well. But apparently the US is not done. A decade of bloody civil war in Iran, a country of 80 million people, is next on the agenda?
Who will aid all the refugees this time? Will Europe get the "job" like every other American war? Thanks but no thanks. If the US creates yet another mess, they should clean it up.
Wishful thinking. They are destroying Venezuela, but refuse to take in any of the refugees their economic war with Venezuela produces.
Sure Iraqi, Libya, Venezuela etc have their bad leaders, but does the US need to make it worse?
7
Nobody not propagandized by the MSNBCs of this nation thinks Iran is a threat to the West. This is a Saudi/Israeli backroom game to manipulate the price of oil and divvy up the power game in the Mideast. Venezuela is not under an abusive dictator, and the Russia meddling hoax was a shameful off the rails abuse by the press.
If you want some truth just look online at various sources from RT to The Duran to Matt Taibi, Michael Tracey, Glenn Greenwald, Noam Chomsky, Aaron Mate', Ben Norton, & Chris Hedges.
5
The Dems would do much better to drop the pointless vendetta against Trump, and say something about another pointless and costly war in the middle east. No one speaks for peace, cooperation , mutually beneficial trade and compassion.
3
B-52s? These are 'sledgehammer' weapons, capable of obliterating 100s of square miles in an afternoon.
So why introduce them into this powderkeg of a region? Does the president intend to carpet bomb Tehran and Qom?
4
I think Jack Ma of Alibaba said it well. Trade is not the problem. The problem is the fact that we have wasted our wealth and our lives with wars. The tens of trillions spent on Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea could have been spent wisely on science, infrastructure, health, social services and education instead.
And to those who would argue ‘national interest’, what do we have to show for these adventures? Countless lives ruined. Political Quagmires. And not a single interest fixed.
10
Just to set the record straight, Canada did NOT support the American invasion of Iraq.
9
Iran is a big country of over 80 million with a rich history and a highly educated, proud people. The Iranian diaspora have greatly enriched every destination nation with their keen wit, academic prowess, and fascinating insights to everyday problems borne of a different mode of upbringing and education.
Surely, the way to approach Iran is with respect, honesty, a willingness to accept the dissimilitude, ingenuously and sincerely. Yes, there are great schisms with respect to democracy, freedom and Israel, but forcing the acquiescence of either side could never achieve détente, let alone concord. Mutual acceptance and respect is far more likely to mitigate the differences, contract the schisms, and lead to a lasting peace between two vastly different, but great nations.
8
Ah yes the Iraq war and we have so much to show for it: back here, families shattered by loss and grief; PTSD-affected vets with AR-15s and right wing kill lists; white power movements on the rise; Trump. Over there? Far far worse.. but follow the money and you’ll figure it out. The rest is propaganda.
16
Iran today has 100 million people. Iraq when Dubya attacked it had 25 million people, but Saddam did not control the north of Kurds protected by the USAF, nor the southern river mouth region of Shia also protected by the USAF since the end of the Gulf War. Saddam controlled less than 20 million people, all in a flat desert region along one river. So Iran is more than 5 times the problem in population. It is also well educated and semi-industrialized.
Iran has a land area of 1.5 million sq km. It is a mountain plateau, surrounded by mountains. Iraq has only 440 thousand sq km, and again Saddam did not control the north nor the south of it when Dubya attacked. He had about 300,000 sq km of flat desert sand, habitable along only one river, the rest empty desert. Iran is more like 10x the size of the occupied area Dubya attacked, and it is defensible mountains not flat sand long and skinny stretched along a river.
Iraq was as far from the shipping lanes as it could get, their far northern limit. Iran stretches out along the whole length of the oil shipping lane, overlooking the entire thing with mountains that are said to be lined with caves and anti-ship missiles.
This is not the same problem at all.
17
Iraq should crush any violent acts from its soil. Iran and the USA should talk and all meddling in Yemen from all parties should stop . The Bush and Obama regime change wars are like an albatross on Trump's shoulders and he should shake it off with full force.
We have learned nothing from useless wasteful and costly wars of the past century. Let the countries of the world resolve their own conflicts without American intervention but may be UN intervention. Landing in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam today has brought back memories for me of the blunders of Vietnam war and how all that ferocious bombardment of our fellow inhabitants half way across our planet ultimately resulted in the unification of North and South Vietnam that Ho Chi Minh fought tooth and nail for. The city named after him is a thriving hybrid of capitalism and socialism side by side in harmony. The blood soaked nation has risen from fall of the regime that Johnson and Nixon fought hard to protect at what cost?
Imagine if the funds wasted on the Vietnam war were funneled to build a government run health care system for all those who could not afford private health insurance by building an infrastructure and cadre of health care workers. We would have a sustainable universal health care. It is never too late instead of contemplating another regime change war we should be thinking of how Americans needing help can be best served. America first and by example would be a new kind of long awaited leadership.
11
@Girish Kotwal It gives me a grim smile when the USA accuses others of " meddling ". What do you call forcible regime change, rocket attacks and starvation sanctions?
3
It's not productive to be a bully, however it is important to occasionally remind everyone "who the Super Power" is. This approach tends to produce sanity and respect for all concerned. Additionally it reduces bothersome rhetoric that is not only baseless but a lie that Obama made possible.
2
Another article reported that the trade embargo with Iran is a deliberate effort to provoke Iran into violence, and that Bolton and Pompeo might force the US into war without Trump's approval or understanding. For this reason it is critical that Congress be involved. The worst mistake would be being led into war by to war by rogue officials in the White House.
10
Looking at the general situation in the middle east, I gather that United States policy is to make the region (outside of Israel) dysfunctional and ungovernable.
Look at what has happened: we invaded Iraq in 2003 for dubious reasons and spent probably a trillion dollars to made a shambles of that country; in Libya we got rid of Gaddafi and the country has been in chaos since; Syria was trashed as we watched. Our longest war still goes on in Afghanistan. They say that it is not safe for a general to drive from Kabul to the airport -- they always take a helicopter. This war has probably cost a trillion dollars and what has it gotten for the Afghanistan people or for us.
One of our great friends is Saudi Arabia which has a madman/butcher for a ruler. A journalist writes a mildly critical article in the WP and gets butchered for it; a young lady post something critical on internet and is sentenced to be executed.
You get the picture. I admit that Iran is not a model of Jeffersonian democracy but it does have democracy of sorts and it has a stable government and society. They support various groups in the region but so does the US, the Saudis, and others.
The great sin (in the eyes of the United States) is that Iran does not do what we tell them to do. The United States wants leaders who will jump when we say jump; otherwise, it is time for regime change.
48
@Aubrey,
Iran is a theocracy, not a democracy of any sort, but you make a good point about US policy being designed to foment instability instead of being designed for regional stability and trade.
4
@SWLibrarian Actually, Iran has democratic elections for local and national offices. Representatives for Parliament and local assembly are officially elected by the people, and they even have elected women in political offices (you can't say the same for Saudi Arabia, our wonderful ally). Yes, they have a "Supreme Ruler", but Aubrey's statement that they have a "democracy of sorts" is accurate.
8
You could say the same thing of Alabama, and the like. Iran is a democracy with real alternative (hence how rohani got in power) albeit , under the possible censorship of the religious apparatus. Compared to say Saudi Arabia, Iran is extremly progressive. What is happening now is unrelated, the hundred of thousands of soul that could lost their life in this conflicts is the result of power struggle, and powers struggle only from ither belligrent state namely Israel and Saudi Arabia.
8
Hasn't John Bolton's expiration date passed?
11
A correction: Canada did not agree with the 2003 Bush war in Iraq - it will not be supporting the 2019 Saudi / Bolton war. Here’s a thought - instead of spending trillions on a very long and deadly war how about using that money to offer universal healthcare for its citizens.
14
@Frank Opolko - There is no money to be made in that.
Selling weapons and messing with oil markets is very lucrative.
I have one question, is it me or is this current administration trying to actually provoke Iran in doing something to legitimize a war with the Iranians. If so this would be the worst kind of distraction ever, the cost of blood on both sides. America wake up before its to late.
8
"The official said that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who visited Iraq last week, told Iraqi leaders that the United States respected Iraq’s sovereignty and that it would not launch attacks on Iran from Iraq."
Who would be foolish enough to believe Pompeo?
5
@cec - "Who would be foolish enough to believe Pompeo?"
Besides Trump and Lindsay Graham?
1
@cec
Roughly 40–45% of Americans.
3
Iraq should cancel the Bush era status of forces agreement and expell all American troops from its soil. That may be the only way to avoid being dragged into the Bolton/Pompeo Iran War.
2
The United States should be very wary of claims against Iran made by Saudi Arabia and the other Arab Gulf states. They have interests that do not necessarily align the America's policies, but don't seem eager to take on Iran directly. As one analyst in the region said on Al-Jazeera English yesterday, "Saudi Arabia would like nothing more than to fight Iran down to the last American soldier."
9
It is now time for congress to re-set the boundaries between it and the executive branch concerning who has the constitutional authority to declare war?
Over the last 60 years all presidents have increased executive powers by drawing a distinction between the commander in chief's responsibility to wage war and the congressional authority to declare war.
The result has been wars where congress either had no involvement or only peripheral involvement in significant military commitments.
Reagan invaded Granada alleging it was a rescue mission. It was not. Bush invaded Panama to make a drug bust. There was no legal basis for that invasion.
Then there was Iran/Contra, an outright violation of US law and Bush's war of lies followed by an invasion and occupation.
And this has not simply been a GOP affair. Clinton bombed the Sudan and Obama lied to justify attacking Libya and Trump unilateraly invaded Syria.
Congress has at time given "authorization" for military action without a declaration of war. This is not enough.
The founders placed war powers in congress precisely because they had lived through wars declared by the king but fought and paid for by the colonists.
War, other than immediate self defense should be declared by the peoples representatives in congress. This should be done openly, carefully debated and undertaken only when fully justified.
This is what our constitution requires and it is time that congress restore this balance, before it's too late.
2
@Drspock I fear that when this war comes ,you will find only enthusiastic support from senior Democrats and " allies " as was the case for Iraq 2. Then we know a voter has nowhere to turn.
didn't then Secretary of Defense Robert Gates state at a speech to a Corp of Cadets, " should we ever get involved in the Middle East again, that we should have our heads examined." I mean after all we're creating the economic pressure on Iran just like we imposed an Oil Embargo on Japan ….and if the Iranians don't want to negotiate ,who are we to force them.....let's stabilize our own Economy first without Political distractions only to further the odds and prospects of a Presidential re-election due to a Wartime expedition or stupidity
6
Truman told Russia it was ok to invade Korea, Ike and the CIA overthrew democratically elected governments, JFK started the Vietnam War, LBJ expanded it, Nixon lost that war, Ambassadors were killed under Ford, Carter lost the “first” Iranian war, Reagan let hundreds of Marines die in Beirut, but made up for it by defeating Granada, HW invaded Panama and Kuwait, Clinton used airplanes in Bosnia, W invaded Iraq but gave up his victory by setting a timetable for troop withdrawal, Obama drew a red line in Syria, and now the anti-war, bone spur President is going to start another Iranian war. With the exception of HST and HW all were draft dodgers or avoided combat service.
5
We'd probably learn more about Trump's plans by asking Saudi Arabia what they are.
11
@Jbugko : Israel too. I can not help but think Netanyahu is pushing buttons as fast as he can.
10
At least Collin Powell won't have to get up in front of the UN to convince any allies Iran is a threat. This is trump and his enablers going to war alone to distract us from the Mueller report. And there are no more allies -- everyone now knows trump is a liar and no country will believe this "intelligence."
14
Trump, bully that he is, says he is not preparing for war but if he was he would be sending many more troops. Bolton is bad cop. How we actually get into a war is by fabricating the threat by Iran, Trump slyly bullying and threatening, Iran responding by preparing and Trump showing that preparation for proof. And so the snowballing. Iran, not wanting war, is being cautious as it must with an impulsive troubled Trump, the man we invested with enormous power to make war without Congressional approval. This must end.
10
If Shia militias are a threat to the US military in Iraq how about we do everybody a favor and bring our troops home.
12
@John Taylor So true. The world is infested with US military , and so anything anywhere can be said to be a threat to our troops.
3
It is going to be sickening, even more sickening than what we have to endure already, hearing and seeing all the lies yet to come from an administration, and all the claptrap and toadying from mainstream media -- all over again, only this time worse. Much worse. And a big part of that "worse" is that a frighteningly large chunk of the electorate will lap it up and passionately support America's authoritarians. Who can say that monstrous immorality is coming? But it sure smells like it.
7
@Dominic Holland It's hard to take. During the unspeakable blitz of Belgrade I couldn't sleep for weeks. After that many more. I may have to turn of my media to save my sanity.
You really have to wonder if Trump is being bribed in any way by the Saudis to attack Iran. Trump’s businesses have fallen off a cliff since he became president. He is desperate for cash, but no legitimate financial institution would touch Trump w a 10 foot pole.
7
@simon simon - Don't forget that Jared is equally broke and in need of foreign cash.
1
During the Republcian presidential debates, Trump was the one who called the Iraq war a disaster. Of course it was a disaster, and we all know it, but none of the other Republicans cared enough about the country to acknowledge the obvious becaude it was started by a a Republican. Always party first, country second.
So I thought that maybe Trump wasn't so dumb after all. But he is dumb, and he relies on Fox News infotainers for advice. Asking Bolton about diplomacy is like asking Kim Kardashian what she thinks about the wall. I'm sure the president is greatly interested in what Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh think we should do in Iran.
10
We have no way to know what Iran wants or it's intentions. But we do know that one of the earliest decisions Trump made was to back out of the nuclear treaty with Iran. Trump has a way of agitating for a fight. He is aggressive and intolerant. Just look at how he has treated our own allies. With the Trump/Barr combo, we have no way to know who is telling the truth. Clearly the Justice Department cannot and should not be trusted and neither can we trust Trump. Our government spews a pack of lies on a daily basis. When we cannot trust our president the AG or Bolton, we may be in a war with Iran and a large part of the middle east before we know what happened. Trust is key and it is missing here. I cannot believe that Trump's best intentions are honorable, so we are now afloat with no rudder.
10
"Mr. al-Jayashi, the Iraqi security council member, also said he believed that the Iranian government did not want war. But he said he worried about the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps acting on its own and possibly encouraging the armed groups it has fostered in the region to act on its behalf."
The Iranian Revolutionary Guard and the neo-conBolton/Trump administration are allied against the interests of both the Iranian people and America---both the IRG and Bolton have been working to destroy the positive path away from past conflicts that had been started with the Iran nuclear deal.
4
If we deployed solar power on every US home, we really wouldn’t care about the Persian Gulf.
6
@EW It would probably cost less in the long run.
Well, the folks in Congress should begin preparations to institute a military draft.
3
I disagree that there are parallels to 2003 war.
For one, the so called neo cons - then led by Mr. Cheney - who allegedly could not get in a war fast enough - are long gone. And they burned bridges to this White House by being "Never Trumpers."
The second thing is we still cannot count on Iraq and especially its military to support us. Not because, they are pro Iran - but they are totally incompetent as displayed in a total collapse against ISIS.
And then, there is the problem of Shia and Sunni issues.
In 2003, Saudis sat on the sidelines, not because they loved Saddam but Saddam as a Sunni was waging an internal war on iraq Shiites - not to mention his multi year fruitless war with Iran.
The only resemblance to 2003 is America will again shoulder a major portion of efforts and sad to say - resulting casualties.
2
@Neil
"the so called neo cons - then led by Mr. Cheney - who allegedly could not get in a war fast enough - are long gone"
Unfortunately, the neocons include both Bolton and Netanyahu, both well positioned right now to provoke us into an armed conflict
16
Thank goodness, American does not put missiles on boats.
And does not station them alongside Iran.
Who is the trouble-maker here?
18
It was not Iraq that endlessly pushed the US to end the deal with Iran. It was not Iraq's leader who spoke before the US congress. It was not Iraq that hated President Obama. It is not Iraq that loves Trump or openly says that he is the best thing that happened to their country. It was not Russia, either. Wake up, America!
5
One takeaway from the picture accompanying the article - it must be so wonderful for the people of that city (and all of Iraq) to be living in peace.
2
Strangely, liberals actually want a war with Iran. They want it so bad they can taste it.
It would prove everything that they fear about Trump, and motivate/enrage Democratic voters.
Alas, they are completely mistaken about Trump. He doesn’t want a war, he wants a negotiation.
The goal of the increased sanctions and military presence is simply to apply maximum pressure to bring the Iranian regime to the bargaining table.
Once there, the goal will be to stop Iran’s development of ballistic missiles, which are arguably even more dangerous than nuclear weapons alone. The secondary goal will be to limit Iran’s meddling in Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, and Yemen, though this will be agreed unofficially.
For all the liberals who are blinded by hate and fear, let me explain again – Trump is a non-interventionist. Much to consternation of the DC Establishment, Trump has no desire to expend blood and treasure to overthrow any of the 100 or so dictators/authoritarians around the world. He understands that it’s very expensive and rarely works.
Liberals who are unwilling to understand the obvious should at least seek a new unfounded fear about Trump.
4
@John " Trump wants negotiation with Iran " you say, but we already had one of those and then he reneged.
Oh dear, this is going to end badly for all concerned. End of Iranian Regime. End of America’s alliances.
End of American International influence. Can’t stop history repeating itself , when you hav megalomaniacs in power.
11
No informed person could possibly deny that the Trump administration is the bullying aggressor against Iran. Trump, Bolton and Pompeo are desperate for any excuse to attack them, just like the Bush administration's unprovoked invasion and occupation of Iraq in 2003. They are well aware that when the US attacks another country, with or without justification, the party in power will always get a bump in the polls. Since Trump was elected he has done everything in his power to pick a fight with Iran, foolishly pulling out of the excellent agreement negotiated by Obama and repeatedly threatening more sanctions and threats.
I am not a fan of the Iranian mullahs but they are far too smart to initiate a war with the world's most powerful military. Trump and Bolton are looking for any excuse to unleash a deadly bombing attack on Tehran, partially to please their key aliies in the region, Israel and Saudi Arabia. These fanatics must be stopped.
18
@Tom Barrett - If our military is so dang strong, then why can't it ever win a war? N. Korea is still holding the U.S. at bay. A bunch of rice farmers in Vietnam wore the U.S. out. A bunch of poppy farmers in Afghanistan have been sending our troops home in pieces for 20 years while the U.S. opioid crisis continues to grow. Castro died of old age.
Well, there is always Grenada to cheer about.
1
The real international sickness nowadays is that we have come to accept as legitimate the prevalence of rogue militias in Arab countries as something normal, even acceptable. And so long as these militias - nearly all of which are fueled and financed by Iran do not harm Western interests, we say and do nothing. A wakeup call is long overdue. ISIS is hardly the only bad guy in the middle east. There are lots of them, all armed and financed to the teeth. And the puppet master is Iran.
3
What about all the armed militia groups in America dedicated to a white nationalist agenda? When are we going to wake up to them? It seems to me that they’ve killed far more Americans and pose a much greater and much more immediate threat than militias in the Middle East.
2
@JJ Gross On the contrary. Many of these mitias are supported by the USA as proxies for regime change.
Just when you think he can’t sink any lower or cause any more grief and chaos, The Unindicted Coconspirator exceeds all expectations.
15
It's a sad commentary when the leadership in Iraq seems more sensible and aware than the leadership in the U.S.
19
There's an awful lot of saber rattling going on about Iran. Reminds of the lead up to the Iraq War. Bolton was part of that too. They still haven't found any WMDs. But 17 years, countless dead and wounded on both sides later, America's military is still there. And Iraq is still about as unstable as it gets.
If you haven't seen the movie "Shock and Awe" starring Woody Harrelson, Rob Reiner and Tommy Lee Jones, it's worth a look.
10
The middle Eastern mind respects only strength from its foes. Mr. Trumps "bellicose threats" therefore have the desired effect - quiet.
2
Make no mistake, the accumulation of missteps by U.S. in the Middle East since the ill-fated Bush invasion in Iraq, favouring inexorably the Shi'ite community which includes, of course, Iran. might start backlashing with unmerciful force soon. Syria is for the moment waiting in the aisles, but has nothing else to lose and will defend its allies. And U.S. forgets about Afghanistan just in the other side of Iran who might join in the battle. Tell me about proportions. Many believe that Israel is in the middle of these offensive and war preparations by the U.S. and Israel has many critics in the concert of nations because of its brutal expansionist behaviour. Iran is not 'saints' but has already forcefully engaged in denuclearization at U.N. meaningful level.
11
I have been scrolling through the comments on the various Iran war buildup articles, and something unusual is happening. Practically nobody is showing up to argue in favor of Trump or a war. If this indicates a real lack of enthusiasm among the GOP base, a war is far less likely: Trump cares most deeply about his own popularity. I may be overoptimistic, but this is the only hopeful sign that I’ve noticed in the whole ugly mess, and I’m not going to ignore it.
6
With all those billions that China's paying via Trump's tariffs (according to Trump), the US can easily afford another little skirmish involving 80 to 100 million folks in the Middle East. Cheap insurance against the possibility of some base erosion.
4
Nothing like a little " war " to rally the Base.
Disgusting.
62
And there is also nothing more disgusting than what the Obama administration did in Iran. The Trump administration is left with his mess.
The most successful attacks by Iran against the US military were conducted by very hard to pin down proxy terrorists in Lebanon in the early 1980s. I imagine they would do the same or similar again if it really suited their political purposes...which I don’t think it does.
IMO it is absurd to think that Iran, even if it wanted to, would directly attack US forces with militias, fast boats or any other visible and identifiable armed force. It would be like going against an F-15 with a P-51 Mustang. That said, Trump IS rattling his saber...probably on behalf of Saudi Arabia...so Iran must do SOMETHING. The military political show must go on!
At the same time, for the past 40 years hostile parties have been relatively successful delivering occasional very lethal headline grabbing sucker punch’s using commercial airliners (9/11), speed boats (USS Cole), trucks (Lebanon, Kenya, Tanzania, Baghdad) and so on.
This is political theatre on both sides that our military is, unfortunately, required to take very seriously.
14
@Stephanie Wood
What you say is more or less correct. I am familiar with the history you outline. That said, it must be noted that hostile action by one nation against another is almost never taken merely for the reason the latter “deserved it”. Wars are rarely the result of mere revenge efforts no matter how hard the revenging party tries to spin it that way to their public.
IMO Iran’s leaders by and large behave in a logical fashion. Attacking US forces in a direct and open manner makes no sense.
2
@Woodson Dart - To me it would make more sense to just start littering the Straight of Harmuz with mines and disrupt oil shipments and watch our economy as gas prices jump up along with Chinese made products.
After Iraq and the faked WMDs, the notion that anyone should trust the United States' claims about Iran, let alone trust Trump, generally, is a terrible joke.
Most of the Bush administration should've ended up in front of a tribunal for war crimes against Iraqi civilians, and the world is letting the US rattle its sabres again. Terrible.
38
@Alex
‘and the world is letting the US rattle its sabres again.’ Alex, the world couldn’t stop Bush II from sabre rattling and invading Iraq on false pretences. You would have invaded even if the UK hadn’t joined in that debacle. We won’t be able to stop you now, either.
Too many of you believe that everyone else is somehow taking advantage of you, so you are withdrawing, you are ignoring the international order that you established at the end of WWII and you are growing ever more belligerent. Your allies cannot protect you from yourself.
3
It took until Trump, Bolton and Pompeo to clearly grasp that it doesn't require a country's support to blunder into war, nor does it require the approval of a governing body-- it just takes one person with more power than knowledge or thought, and a couple of aides willing to do anything to have their opinions triumph. Even Bush( GW), Cheney and Rumsfeld thought they had to produce some sort evidence, as false as it was. Trump will simply lie, Bolton will manufacture incidents and Pompeo will provide cover.
I hope it's just talk. But If Iran takes the bait, who will stop the Trump trio from sending us into war in yet one more West Asian country?
35
@cheryl
No sure you remember current American history. Bush-Cheney-CIA made it happen--but Congress did the "blunder into war".
3
Let's take the money we were planning on spending on this new war and spend it on a Marshall Plan for central America. It'll cost us less in the long run and mean peace and prosperity for millions of our neighbors.
You can't beat that kind of wall.
50
@caveman007:
you wouldn't even need a marshall plan
IF you decided to finally work out and adhere to
FAIR ECONOMIC POLICIES.
STOP
- food speculation
- land grabbing
- monocultures
- hybrid seeds
- biopiracy
- exploitation
- modern slavery
- the demand for drugs you have to go to war against
- selling arms
- ...
START
- paying fair prices for resources and agricultural goods
- paying fair wages
- debt relief
- ...
- ...
don't perpetuate the idea that some people on earth
just can't get anywhere without "our helping hand[out]".
6
The last thing this administration will do is give money to other nations.
@Chris
How about Israel?
1
I think Bolton, Trump and, Pompeo, got it all backwards. It isn’t Iran that provoking American troops in the regent. Iran has a large and strong military, but they’re not stupid to act first or provoke a mighty military like this country, but it is very obvious that Mr. Trump, Bolton, and Pompeo want to score some points, and they are teasing and provoking Iran.
32
No teasing; just warnings. When you are playing in the playground with the biggest bully you need to send a strong message. Bullies understand only one thing.
Bolton and Trump are the saber rattlers. Ms. Pelosi, We The People do not want to go to war with Iran.
53
correction: Canada did * not participate in the American- led coalition in or against Iraq in 2003. If Trump is thoughly isolated today one must recognize that many seeds of this position were sown by the conduct of the last Bush Administration.
13
Remember Matamoros? Remember Pearl Harbor? Remember the Gulf of Tonkin? Remember Operation Iraqi Freedom? When a superpower wants a war, it can make a war happen.
16
Yet another reason for impeachment. Just as the Alabama legislature disregards women and pass the most irrational anti abortion law, so too the enemies of the state, from Trump to his whisperers: Bolton, Pompeo, Netanyahu and their friends are irrationally banging the drums of war for self interest. Again, the faux meritocratic a-morals are testing the world. The Russian revolution began as a domestic conflict, but devolved into a massive global revolution that changed the course of the 20th century. They should be careful what they wish for.
26
A swarm of small boats with cruise missiles combined with land based anti ship missiles will turn a carrier group into a reef.
It is impossible to track hundreds of targets at once with 100% success.
8
@Lawrence
And there is an argument that large ships are simply good targets for missiles,large and small, delivered by humans or drones.
Were they rushed there to symbolize military might, or to draw fire?
2
@Lawrence
What's missing from that scenario is competence. US Navy wins hands-down.
1
Even our allies in the Middle East consider us unstable. Arab, Persian, Shiite, Sunni, Kurdish. The moving pieces remain even if Americans are only interested in who is wearing MAGA hats in Mecca. I don't know why we would enter such an ill-conceived endeavor but I no longer doubt that it's a possibility. The lowest bar for following someone into battle is believing what they say is true. If Trump stood on a thousand bibles he would be 9,000 lies shy of the bar.
18
@Rick Gage When a nation extends its military adventures too far away it is in the empire-decline spiral. For the US it started with gulf of Tonkin; long process, but tRump Pimpeo and Dolton may be accelerating it.
12
From another article in today's Times: "intelligence officials declassified a photograph of one of the small boats, called dhows, carrying what was described as a functional Iranian missile"
Wow! A FUNCTIONAL Iranian missile. Now that sounds like a real threat!
Certainly worthy of the described response from the US: "In response, the administration dispatched an aircraft carrier, long-range bombers and an antimissile battery to the Persian Gulf"
That should take care of this 'functional missile'.
11
If the US decides to go to war with Iran, I suggest that all military personnel declare that they have bone spurs in their feet and cannot obey orders.
26
@Denis Pelletier:
... "suppose they gave a war
and nobody came" revisited.
3
John Bolton has one purpose in common with Sheldon Adelson - to instigate a war with Iran based on trumped up, false intelligence and bomb them back into the stone age.
Sheldon Adelson donated over $100 million to GOP candidates in 2018 and is one of Donald Trump’s biggest donors, so his money and right wing hawkish views wields tremendous influence over U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.
God help us all.
32
Why is Bolton allowed into the White House? His wartime record is abysmal. He’s looking for a do-over after his catastrophic Iraq war role. Unfortunately his oversimplified thinking is again critically flawed.
Iran has twice as many people as Iraq and Iran is four times larger than Iraq. Military experts felt we needed 400,000 troops for the Iraq war, and instead we used about half that number with disastrous results, on the advice of neocons including Bolton. For a war in Iran we will need at least 500,000 troops, likely ending up with about 10,000 US troops killed, 25,000 disabled for life, and a total cost of $2 trillion.
46
@Midwest Moderate
Iranians are much different from Iraqis who were suffering from the economics left over form the Gulf War and Saddam's iron-fisted repression. For the most part have no use for the hard-line clerics running the country. Most Western in many ways in the Middle East. In fact, the clerics have more to fear from their own people than the US.
9
@Midwest Moderate War with Iran is unthinkable, first of all, because there is no reason for it except in the mind of John Bolton. I would trust Trump will follow his own thinking to stay out of that trap, except for reporting which shows that he pays attention to the last person who talks with him. He also has an election coming up and generally Americans support a president at war. I hope the Iraq disaster has soured Americans on that hoary notion.
11
@Harold Johnson I don’t believe that Americans will support this war or this president.
1
Sinking economy because of paralyzing trade wars... low approval rating... incriminating investigation with Congressional inquiries and demands...no decent administrative officials remaining after various purges.. failed marriage...upcoming 2020 election...insecurity about small hands...
Did we think that Trump wasn't going to start a war during his presidency?
We were silly if so.
Wars are great for re-elections and they're great for presidents that aren't doing well in office. History taught me that in 7th grade.
41
DOD specifically the combatant commanders must be prepared to disregard orders from this lunatic because acting sec of defense shanahan will not standup to Donald, that is why General Mattis was fired.
24
Do a little research, I did....
google "Iranian speedboats with rockets"
Get news results from up to 5 years ago. It's their long-planned and long-known response with fast-boats against a giant navy foe.
New and dangerous Iranian preparations for attack ?
No, same old dangerous rush to war by US chicken-hawks.
60
It was just reported, that the Iraqi Ambassador to Russia announced Baghdad’s decision to purchase the S400 missile defence system.
8
"the Trump administration has said, repeatedly and publicly, that Iran and Arab Shiite militias aligned with it were planning to strike American troops in the region, and that the threat had increased recently."
He lies and lies and lies... why should we believe him now? He flip-flops more than a fresh caught fish! He says one thing, and then another, the opposite. He creates chaos after chaos after chaos. This is his modus operandi. And this keeps the people, the press and the congress spinning around "chasing their tails."
They are destroying not only our democracy, but democracy all around the world. They are destroying our relationships with our allies and reaching out to dictatorships and supporting criminals and power hungry despots, that are a persistent threat to human flourishing.
This is how he sees himself. This is what he wants. And, if he gets his way, he will try to destroy our system of government so that he can stay in "power."
"We the people..." of the United States of America and the law enforcement system and congress and the judicial system cannot let this happen. We need to find a way to get him and Pence out! (and Barr too, while were at it...)
A "President Pelosi" sounds pretty darn good, right about now.
36
@Life-long Yankee I was with you till you got to Pelosi, oh please you have such great insights, please look at her corporate donors and tell me she does not serve their interests and not the rest of us, tell me you actually believe that those donations do not control her? She will protect those special interests to the death and instead of doing the right thing and go for impeachment and hold Trump accountable, she snarks that he is begging her to do so, Yes it will not pass in the Senate, but oh to have it made public who votes against it will damage the GOP in the future.
And hey what a cop out of Nancy saying that the longer Trump stays in office the more money she gets from the little people and the big people too. It makes me sick that she begs people with hardly any money to donate, donate, donate and she will never represent them or stick up for them, only for her own power and the elites. Talk about robbing the poor to benefit the rich. Please stop believing Nancy's self inspired hype and know that she is very corrupted. Just look at her voting record and match it with her donations, She represents the insurance companies and that is why she is against single payer which would cost us much less and give us better results, like 11 other countries do now. And everyone would be covered. Do not believe the words of a corrupted woman, she does not give a rip about you.
4
Keep up the pressure. The "Economist" recently presented a convincing piece that claimed that the Shia leadership in the Middle East has shifted from Qom in Iran to the Sistani Mosque in Iraq and that Kamanni's days are numbered as the leaders of the Middle Eastern Shia's and that the faith's leadership will soon desert Persia. Once deprive of theological support, the Iranian oligarchy/theocracy will crumble.
6
Perhaps...but if so, why USA involvement or sponsored escalation? To satisfy some fantasy that John Bolton has been harboring for the past 40 years? If what you say is truly happening why put our kids into harms way... especially when our president seems hell bent withdrawing from every global alliance that the USA has championed and sponsored since the days of George Marshal.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union our hard working and overtaxed military has been minting failed states faster than a Chinese assembly line.
I, for one, have had enough!
10
@Woodson Dart:
why US involvement?
well, have those "in charge" even read articles
like the one edmass cited from the economist?
no gains to be made by simply waiting things out.
whatever aim today's hawks pursue,
consideration for political, cultural, historical
developments isn't, and has never been, part of it.
results - however remote? - now.
no matter what [else].
[and, sadly enough, even before the fall
of the soviet union, US/CIA activities have been
creating much suffering on a global scale.]
2
The US spends an insane amount on its military and has the largest military in the world. It is very effective at killing and destabilization. But let me just say this: despite all the money the US spends on the military instead of its citizens (and indeed instead of its Vets in many cases) - after over 10 yrs of war the Taliban is still in control of many parts of Afghanistan and gaining more control.
33
@Anna
The US military institution is optimized for milking the country tax revenue and spend it all on building overpriced gadgets and maintaining air conditioned bases around the world.
No wonder average Americans are getting poorer over time.
25
@Anna remember that if Taliban is still in Afghanistan it's because of Islamic regime in Iran. Most of Al qaede and Taliban are in Iran.
Here is the ultimate paradox: the major force restraining Trump from embracing Bolton's fervent desire to invade both Iran and Venezuela is a recognition that such actions would sabotage the White House's eager overtures toward rekindling a warmer relationship with Vladimir Putin.
We are living in strange times indeed.
14
@woofer
Good point. Now if only Putin could use his mysterious influence over Trump to bring the States back into the Iran Deal and the Paris Accords...
8
@woofer Well I am sure that long phone call with Putin did stop us invading Venezuela because Putin has it's own plans to rape that country, and I hope what you say is true also about Iran, that Putin told Trump to stand down as well, we can only hope. And gee no one thinks Putin has any hold over Trump? I say it is the money laundering he has done with the Russians for years. But if it saves lives I am all for it. I guess the GOP does not mind Putin running our show. They surely must know. I am concerned that this new idea of adding more years to Trump's reign is not Putin's idea as well. Will the Democrats ever stand up to Putin?
5
Trump is in there with his foolishness of playing Good Cop-Bad Cop with Iran.
Trump uses his hawks John Bolton and Mike Pompeo as the Bad Cops so he can seem more moderate as compared to them.
This whole "thing" of playing these new war games against Iran is dangerous, foolish,expensive and unnecessary.
Some slight mistake by either side can send us into a new war with Iran. It's no secret that Trump's pals Bolton and Pompeo are just itching for a war with Iran.
Trump is trying to protect Iraq with this show of force but even Iraq doesn't agree with our new warlike tactics.
This newest venture of sending our warships,warplanes and military personnel into the waters around Iran is just one more example of why we must rid ourselves of Donald Trump and his cronies just as soon as we can.
14
@M.W. Endres
It's not just trump. The whole Republican party feeds off of dragging US into various conflicts. It doesn't help that they're also bought by likes of Israel and Saudi Arabia who somehow own that party.
13
When are we going to learn that we are not welcome in the Middle East, and that we have no business being there?
We lost the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, like we lost in set Nam. But the war machine has too keep grinding, producing more arms and sending more military supplies.
How many foreign nations have bases and troops in the United States? None! Yet U.S troops are deployed in 150 countries around the world! This is imperialism, plain and simple. Yet congress engages in the hypocrisy of Russian interference!. Not a day goes by that the U.S. isn't manipulating governments and elections around the world.
21
@Michael: sincere thanks for reminding people of
the seemingly eternal unfairness of the equation.
i am constantly angered by the fact that my government
[all secret wire-tapping of its chancellor by "our US friends" aside] agrees to violate its own constitution and int'l. law
by helping US drones find their way to the muslim world.
and this doesn't become more bearable as i repeat it.
apart from that, we could all be welcome everywhere,
if we treated people as equals, not as "exploitables".
1
They might be surprised Trump is not like our previous presidents and Bolton never saw a war he didn't like and support.
5
We've all already been to this rodeo. The anonymous leaks of intelligence of imminent threats. The background briefings. The unnecessary raising of military alerts. The unsubstantiated links with terrorism. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
24
Worry not.
Trump is just looking for ways to use all those soybeans that China won't be buying....
"Hey!!!! I got an idea!" he cried, while on the Executive Throne at 3am....(or, in his morning shower, with his shower cap pinching his head....when he makes his best decisions...)
"We can use Soybeans as ammo!!!...We can call it a "war", which our base will buy, our "Patriot" farmers will be happy, and no one will get seriously hurt!!!"
He tweets it out. The market roars higher. The base is agog.... Congress is speechless.
PS: If I were a soybean farmer, I would cringe and be embarrassed as all get out every time Trump referred to me as a "Patriot".
Planting seeds does not a patriot make, and they know it too.
9
The US warplan for Iran reportedly involves 120,000 troops. That's just dreaming.
Iran is 2 1/2 times the population of Iraq and 4 times the area.
Let's suppose that the US did somehow conquer Iran with a 1-4 disadvantage in manpower.
What then? What's the endgame for occupying and reconstructing Iran?
'Cause things could be going better in Afghanistan and Iraq, after 15 years and counting...
30
Remember the very funny, yet scary, DeNiro/Hoffman movie “Wag the Dog”? We may be watching that scenario happening for real right now. Trump wants a war as a way to win the next election. He and his minions are quite capable of generating false excuses for war.
10
@Alexandra Hamilton He's not smart enough to "wag the dog." He thinks that by making these threats that he can eventually get what he wants. He and his family have used this in the past. (Think Trump Jr and the senate). However, he is now playing with "fire" in the real world.
5
The Iranians should send a drone over the USS Abraham Lincoln and drop some flowers with a card “ have a nice day”.
Really this whole fiasco could and should be settled peacefully.
And the American people should hold to account those both within and without the USA whom are pushing for war.
5
Maybe the 250,000 Iraqi deaths from Cheney’s war have been forgotten by this Iraqi generation. Sadaam was propped up and funded by the US to fight Iran when he first used gas to kill thousands. After having enough of US duplicity he did things his way and invaded Kuwait before HW pushed him back. Then Cheney/w, with no justification, unleashed the most ignorant and arrogant US intrusion in recent history.
Iraqis beware!
w was a horrible president but seems wise and wonderful compared to this sociopath POTUS who is far more impulsive, divisive, ignorant, and destructive than any preceding US President. Yes, Iraq, this POTUS will start a war with Iran to distract from the revelations of his criminal business and presidency.
25
With friends like Mohammed Bone Saw, Butcher of Yemen and Netanyahu: master ventriloquist with twin dummies, Trump and Bolton – who needs enemies?
So here's a modest proposal for the other permanent members of the Security Council and EU to persuade Iran to adhere to the nuclear agreement.
Impose the exact same sanctions on Israel as Trump has imposed on Iran. Bibi will call off his attack dogs in no time flat.
19
Trump may view a war as his best shot to either win re-election or, failing that, seize control of the government beyond term limits. I would not put anything past him and his supporters. That being the case there do not need to be any facts or logic behind a decision to go to war. They are already laying the groundwork of “alternative facts” needed to persuade the Republican base that Iran is an imminent threat.
9
"Then, important American allies like Britain, Canada and Japan supported the Bush administration in going to war..."
No, Canada did not. Does not. Will not.
31
I've been wrong about this kind of thing before, but I can't imagine Democrats in the House giving Trump the money for any kind of large-scale war with Iran. Not in this political environment. Not unless there is truly an urgent and legitimate cause.
10
@chris
After he seizes total power, Trump won't need the Democrats in the House to give him money.
I'm sure if I was an Iraqi I couldn't believe the US would be that stupid, but they are wrong. We can.
32
@Ken S
I think that Iraqis have a pretty good idea of just how stupid the U.S. is.
Donald Trump knows that if he doesn't win re-election, there is a very good chance he may go to jail. So, the question Iranian's should be asking themselves is, "Do we think Donald Trump would start a war in Iran in order to win re-election?" - And the answer is, positively, absolutely, and with all possible certainty - 100% yes. In a second.
So, let's not have any illusions. Trump would sell everyone, and every living thing on the planet down the river in order to save his own skin.
21
@Chicago Guy Amen, Chicago Guy... except his kids... maybe they should be used as leverage...
5
@Life-long Yankee
He would absolutely sell his kids.
Thanks to the Linköping Red Cross I have many friends and acquaintances from Iraq - one will be here tomorrow - so I will take the article and picture to the Red Cross on Tuesday to show them and to see what they are hearing.
I can be sure that Donald Trump knows as little about Iraq as he knows about Iran, or even the economics of tariffs, so I see no way for any logical person to know what Trump might do in Iraq.
All I can do this evening is hope that the Iraqis are right, Insha Allah
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
8
DJT could not find Iran on a map - once Bolton was brought into the admin, going to war somewhere, anywhere, was a given.
1
@PegnVA-Yes, of course, that is what I fear, that Bolton is so committed to war that he is determined to find a way to trigger a start event.
Since I point to my life at the Red Cross I will confess that growing up on a farm in Seekonk MA guaranteed that then and even at Brown University I never knew a single person from the Middle East. Fortunately, my mother gave me the book Lawrence of Arabia, which I still have and that at least introduced me to that part of the world. Once at Red Cross I came to know by now at least 50 Iranians and 100s of Iraqis - they self identify mostly by ethnicity - Kurd, Assyrian, or by mother tongue.
One of my closest Iranian friends was here today and when we "fika" - have coffee and something to eat - before we work in the yard, he educates me about some aspect of Iranian history.
All the more reason why I fear war.
Let's hope.
Larry
Perhaps the most depressing aspect in all of this (aside from the inevitable loss of life, of course) is that democrats and Republicans alike will let it happen. Impeachment isn't coming. Nothing is coming to save us.
For all the talk of checks and balances our government is run by a mad man and cowards.
45
@Halboro: and by checks paid
and account balances savored.
1
Iraqis are probably thinking there will be no war because there is no basis for one. They don't understand. Republicans have won the popular vote for president exactly once since 1992, and on that occasion, 2004, the victory was attributed to a reluctance to change presidents in war time. And Trump is in a far more precarious position than Bush ever was. If Trump loses the election, he goes to prison! Would Trump start a devastating war to distract attention from his own crimes? Of course he would. Hence today's exaggeration of the Iranian "threat". The ground work for war is starting to be laid.
59
The Iraqis underestimate the stupidity of the Trump administration. Donald wants to be a War President and that decides the issue.
42
Trump knows that a war against Iran will be no easy in-out "mission accomplished" deal, and above all else he needs to be re-elected. On current trends he probably will, unless he makes a big move that can be spinned to be a mistake, such as attacking an armed to the teeth nation of 80 m, with plenty of religious maniacs, the backing of Russia and China and sitting on a region run by governments always a few days away from collapse that has 60% of the world's oil.
The real danger is that Iran will go nuclear anyway if they see they can´t sell any oil, since the calculation above is in their minds too and thus they don't fear Trump.
Trump pulled out of the Iran Deal. Either he is incredibly smart or he is incredibly stupid. Let's hope for the first one...
4
There is no “first one.” He is mentally unstable and there is no “incredibly smart” going on in that evil brain. He simply does the nastiest thing that comes to mind. We must prevent this from happening by removing him immediately.
14
@Bodyman
I'm trying to think of a President as disliked, not respected or trusted as Trump is, and I can't. Nixon was dishonest; however he was not a traitor aligned with an adversary. He was not stupid; he was paranoid which made him do stupid things, e.g. Watergate. He was winning; there was no need to "spy" on the opposition. He had a motley crew around him with no real discipline on his part. We mocked John Dean; however he might have been only one in the inner circle who attempted to give honest advice. My husband and I were in Europe at the time; we were shocked. People kept asking us why Nixon did what he did; we had no answers. Now we know that he was ill from too much alcohol; he was still carrying all the old social tics from his youth in SoCal; he never believed he belonged in the WH. It was a sad story, because he also gave us the EPA and opened the door to China. He wasn't afraid of the world outside, as is Trump. He wasn't a grifter; he was socially inept, wearing a suit and dress shoes on the beach. He understood what the Presidency was. Trump does not; he confuses the Office with being officer in the Shriners.
4
I was a high school student during 9/11 and the Bush administration’s then-obviously fraudulent build up to the Iraq war. All of us were convinced it was impossible that we would go to war, including a teacher who agreed to have his head shaven in the auditorium if we invaded (he followed through).
With Trump and his supporters, it is impossible to be too cynical. He will prepare for war as a backup for the election in case the economy falters. This is why he brought Bolton on. Strap on, we haven’t hit bottom yet in the USA. Just when you think we’ve recovered from Bush’s nightmares, here we go again. His supporters will celebrate the new “Shock and Awe,” probably early next year.
My sympathies are with the poor servicemen who will get hurt and die to make sure Trump is re-elected and the defense industry gets its usual Republican-sponsored feeding frenzy.
100
@TS Yes- remember GWBush had a second term because of that Iraq war, part of his "Axis of Evil" crusade of preemption and scare tactics about WMD's. The electorate did not want to change horses mid war. His approval ratings increased tremendously after 9/11. At the end of his second term his approval was the lowest of any president (since polling) 22% ( 19% upon leaving office)- see Wikipedia on GW Bush. Revealing. The war seemed to have worked to get him into his second term (against swift-boated Viet Nam vet Kerry). But at the end it was GWBush's unpopularity that helped Obama it seems.
Trump's approval by comparison is very high considering his unprecedented unfitness for office from day one measured by past norms, generously construed, as well as Trumps continuing oppositional nature regarding the welfare and well being and reputation of this country in favor of his personal political needs.
1
@Potter, and now he is a painter! And L. Paul Bremer too!
This next idea for instigating a war for regime change is insane. More of our precious military sent off to die while billions and trillions of dollars are wasted.
21
Let's hope and pray through the course of the Donald presidency, as usual with most of his threats, he's all mouth and no action. Just driving everyone crazy. BTW, almost nothing is just him, he's not that capable.
7
@Piece man: "all mouth and no action"?
as in: i could shoot somebody on 5th avenue
and get away with it.
now he's moving "5th avenue" offshore
and will let US soldiers do the shooting?
They just know our crazy, bully of a president. Along with Bolton, Trump will do his best to make a show of this but only for his base. It could easily turn into a full out war. Trump wants a war in the worst way so that he can have something to win. China tariffs may not play well and a war is just what is needed to distract the public from China and Mueller.
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@Paul Raffeld:
what - and how - is he going to win at war with iran?
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@°julia eden
He can't possibly win—but, as always, he is completely sure that he can.
It’s just talk, just threats,” said Salim Abu Hassan, 48, after delivering a shipment of scales for babies. He said he had fought in the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s, and was in Baghdad when the United States attacked 16 years ago. “Iran and America are each one trying to shout louder than the other.”
Trump has a big mouth with no conviction behind it. We seen this many times in the past 2 years.
8
The relationship between the U.S. and Iran is a horribly lopsided one in which our nation has been an unabashed abuser and Iran is mostly responding to our overt and covert subjugation of their country. First, our C.I.A. overthrew their democratically elected Prime Minister Mossadegh in 1953, in order to take their oil--an act of abject imperialism. We installed the puppet Shah and his C.I.A.-trained police force SAVAK, which tortured, killed and jailed tens of thousands of Iranians over the next 26 years. The Iranians finally retaliated in 1979 with the taking of our hostages--frankly, you could have expected any less given the terror we inflicted on them? The U.S. then pushed Saddam Hussein to start a war with Iran in the 80s, and our government openly and publicly supported, armed and funded the Iraqi dictator during his invasion of Iran (including giving him that dreadful and illegal chemical gas he used on his own people, which we intended for use against Iran). When that war ended without avail, the U.S. then shot down a civilian airliner over Iran in 1988, killing 200+ innocent Iranians. And in the 2000s, we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, the two countries that flank Iran, and occupied them for over a decade--to this day. Imagine if someone invaded our Mexico and Canada and occupied them for a decade--imagine if China did that! We would be doing much more than just chanting "Death to China" if they ever did such things to us that we did to Iran over the past 60 years.
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@Fajita: these facts can't be
repeated often enough ...
but will they ever sink in?
7
@Fajita The United States murdered 290 civilians to be exact when the U.S.S. Carl Vincennes shot the Iran Air airbus from the sky, somehow 'mistaking' a civilian airliner in ascent as a dive bombing jet fighter. Also, considering that the United States began an illegal war of aggression by invading Iraq in 2003 and one has to wonder who, objectively, is the malevolent actor in the region?
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@Fajita
I grew up in Iran and everything you wrote makes sense to me. One more piece of information: Iran's military spending is 2% of the US. Yes, here in America we spend 50 times on our military as the Iranians do and wonder why the Iranians are worried and preparing for war.
7
It's been obvious -- Trump is pushing for his war -- he wants it, bad. Yes, Trump would lie about a strike on American troops just to start one. His toadies like Bolton and Pompeo will go along with the lie.
We aren't falling for it Mr. Trump, never again.
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@LSW
The war in Vietnam went on for years leaving 58,000 dead Americans, not to mention those affected by the toxic Agent Orange we sprayed everywhere. We protested and marched; finally opposition to the War became a national movement. What will it take to stop a war against Iran, pushed by the Saudis and Israelis, our "allies"? We are the useful idiot they need to threaten Iran. Our smartest Generals have resigned; Bolton is an incompetent hawk insider. Obviously Trump thinks Bolton is really smart, enough said. This is the first time in years that I feel some despair with no real strong leadership to offset the corrupt Trump gang of thieves. Nixon wasn't stupid or uneducated. Trump is perhaps really stupid with a lot of sleazy street smarts; he is uneducated. He was expelled from middle school; he has some hinky degree from Wharton purchased by a huge donation. If you want to be really depressed, listen to Kudlow and Giuliani. We have no FDR, Eisenhower or Truman; McCain is gone.
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@LSW. How are you planning to stop it?
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@B. Rothman:
take to the streets like we used to?
1
I am at ease now, since people on the streets have a special knowledge of the inner workings of the mind of Bolton and company.
4
Trump still denies Russian involvement in the 2016 election because it calls the legitimacy of his election into question. So the integrity of elections in the United States and, by extension, the security of our democracy, is less important to him than his ego. He's that petty.
Now he's facing multiple investigations for corruption, obstruction, campaign violations, money laundering, and on and on. With his presidency and maybe his liberty on the line, I see no limit to how far he'll go to distract the world from his troubles, even if it means provoking an unjust war he's incapable of winning or managing the consequences of.
He's that petty.
115
@Jeremy
Prediction: Brennan and Comey are wearing orange in six months--Rice soon to follow.
@Jeremy
Oh yes, there is going to be a war.
Trump is Bibi and MBS’s puppet, and they demanded Boltons installation, because of his continued push for an Iran war, since being in the Bush administration. They fear Trumps days are numbered, so they have to push for a war now with Iran by any means. The only way to avert war is for Trump to fire Bolton, but sadly Bolton is calling the shots now and Trump spends his days just tweeting and golfing.
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@steve
I believe your thoughts on this issue are more probable than not!
1
Trump is totally unpredictable; chaos and "winning" is all he cares about. Just one person with a gun or bomb could kill Americans and full blown war could erupt.Trump has ended diplomacy and his word is worthless.Bolton and Pompeo are cheering for war; they might get it. Ray Sipe
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