This hypothesis of the masses roaming freely across the planet has been around for a while. How does this work? A few hundred million people move into a place, use it up, with zero regard to the inhabitants of the place, then move on? Let's face it, any country taking on that burden would be quickly (within a few years) a shell of its former self. That isn't a plan, just chaos. No, thanks.
There are 7 billion people in the world. About a billion live in the US or Western Europe or Japan or Australia. Probably about another billion in the developing world have it pretty good. That leaves 5 billion. If our borders were wide open, probably a billion would move to the US. That simply wouldn't work. We have a right as a nation and an obligation to our citizens to regulate our borders.
48
I'm so perplexed about what happened to the concept of fighting for the change you want where you live. The US cannot be the home of tens of millions of refugees who are unhappy about their existence in their respective countries. Our economy cannot support them.
What happened to fighting for change? And if you don't want to fight for that change, how about applying legally?
181
@cece
"Tens of millions"? Try a few billion.
8
@cece The USA can not deny that is has played a major role in the disablization of many of these countries. In favoring international business incursions for whatever precious commodity the counties had--including cheap labor--the US has supported governments and tolerated the abuse of their citizens in favor of the almighty dollar. From oil to manufacturing to clothes. Just checked my sweatshirt with a logo for my USG agency and guess what?....It was manufactured in Honduras.
5
Sustainable immigration works. Unsustainable immigration does not work. What is happening now is unsustainable immigration. Do not forget the cost on the people who tolerated illegal immigration in their town allowing some to succeed.
Many good points in the article but it fails to cover the complexities of illegal immigration and the impact it has on society.
85
@DS I'm sure the decendents of the original native tribes in this country who are confined to living in reservations and pueblos would be willing to share their views on the complexities of illegal immigration and the impact it has had on their societies.
4
Being free to roam is incompatible with a modern nation state.
It also handwaves away the question of just whose rules, mores, languages, laws, and cultures should dominate in a given area. Who decides?
How do we differentiate between people who are exercising their "right" to be free to roam and people like say the 19th century British who decided that Kenya would be better off with their presence _regardless_ of what the Kenyans thought?
It is indeed unfortunate that so many Latin American countries are unpleasant places to live. But there's a lot of missing logic between that fact and the unsupported conclusion that therefore people should be free to roam to the United States.
133
@Lilo
The modern nation state is on its way out. There are a growing number of people who have 3-4 passports from different countries (parents from 2 countries, born in a 3rd, grew up in a 4th, etc). Estonia offers "virtual residency", i.e. like a green card but without the requirement to actually live there. The EU, despite its problems has existed for decades. The US and Russia are in effect federations. These conglomerate jurisdictions have been growing and merging for thousands of years, but people whose time horizon is only a few years can't see that and keep blathering about the "sanctity" of the nation state. I bet they thought that about city states in 13th century Italy. Or cities in ancient Greece. Or villages earlier. Get over the short-sightedness and learn to see the big picture.
1
@UA I'm reasonably certain that the United States and the EU are both federations of constituent members who agreed to be federated, and are therefore nation states.
Funnily enough, they both believe in the sanctity of their borders and the EU isn't going to merge with Libya or Syria just because a lot of Libyans and Syrians end up at their doorstep.
11
@UA
The modern nation state isn't on the way out.
The United States isn't a federation. It's a nation. And as with every nation there are some people who are citizens and some people who are not.
And the people who are not citizens don't get to tell citizens what kind of nation they should have.
In the 13th century did the people who live in what is today Mexico visit Genoa, Florence and Rome to settle without the permission of the people living there, and demand that public documents be translated into Aztec?
No? Ok then your point is meaningless.
To quote Linker:
"Politics in all times and places involves a bounded community defining itself, and its citizens ruling themselves, in contradistinction to other bounded communities. "
"But then what do our universalist liberals hope to accomplish, not by raising perfectly reasonable objections to specific immigration restrictions, but by denying the legitimacy of having any immigration restrictions at all? There are many, many intellectually coherent answers to the two key questions of immigration policy (Who can come here? And how many of them?) — but many on the left seem to think there is only one legitimate answer to each question (Everyone. And all of them). This is ludicrous.
Politics has its own logic, and part of that logic is the distinction between citizens and non-citizens. "
https://theweek.com/articles/716164/lefts-immigration-problem
5
"I believe all sentient beings should be free to roam. It’s our birthright. "
It's not the roaming that's a problem. It's the settling down and staying in numbers that cannot be sustained that is the issue.
Immigration needs to be managed. It can be done humanely and expansively but it can't be left uncontrolled. Otherwise the American Dream you choose not to believe in will not be available for those who do.
160
@LT somewhat ironic then that the more walls we built along our southern border the more we encouraged settlement in our country, rather than migrant men who used to do seasonal work while leaving their families at home.
2
@LT Agreed.
2
Due to climate change, war, and overpopulation, every civilized country in the world is now trying to maintain secure borders. Read some European newspapers if you want to see the result of unlimited migration. For years, they encouraged immigrants because they needed a larger workforce. They arrived in large numbers, and now there are too many. They live in ghettos, don't learn the local language, can't find employment, and often bring a culture that is a bad fit with the host country. It makes sense to have legal borders if you want a stable and secure country. Or you can have "roaming" and the overpopulation problems that follow. When resources are diminished, people fight like rats for whatever scrap they can obtain. If we want our country to survive, we will be careful about who comes in permanently.
8
"No one is illegal on stolen land" - Best thought yet.
Are we so ignorant about our history as to vilify people who are scared of what's happening in their own land, or do not have enough to eat a good meal and come seeking refuge in our land? These people are in more need than the English who first came to these shores and proceeded to maim, kill and steal from the natives. But that was all right then, no?
How about all the invasions to foreign lands in the name of liberty, freedom and capitalism? But mainly capitalism.
So the non-Americans came accross the river, or the dessert, or the sea, or overstayed their visas. Big deal. Any good American knows how to put them to work, paying them less, of course. If you don't believe me, ask Trump, or check with all the roofs in your neighborhood: they all speak Spanish! Have you not driven on most streets and see the color of the people digging holes? Hypocrites!
Our Lord Jesus is within each and every one of those "unseen" laborers and their children. May God have mercy of your selfish egotistical souls.
2
The illegal alien can leave if she's unhappy.
4
This article should be entitled: the Self-induced Trauma of Knowingly Violating the Laws of the United States ...
9
@William M. Palmer, Esq.
"the Self-induced Trauma of "
u mean like the "self-induced trauma of knowingly violating the laws of the United States" of white european who make up a HUGE percentage of illegals in this country via visa overstays, who trump refuses to go after, and whom u either care or know little about?
1
"The Trauma of Sanctuary" is equal to the trauma of committing a crime. There's only trauma if you violate the law, don't violate the law NO trauma, even an illegal alien should be able to figure that out.
11
@Tired of hypocrisy
"even an illegal alien should be able to figure that out" ---- as should the multitude of white europeans who commit the same level of crime by automatically converting to illegal alien status and refusing to leave after their visas expire? have u nothing to say about that? or is the "crime" okay, as long as it bolsters & preserves white primacy? "Tired of hypocrisy" indeed.
You cannot have Open Borders with anything but a World Government, otherwise social services don't add up. A child understands that much math. All these platitudes about "freedom to roam" sound really nice, so do flying ponies, but they're not real either. The US does not have the moral obligation to be the world's welfare office. The 3rd World creates orders of magnitude more poor desperate people each year than the US could ever absorb. We're not helping the world, we're only destroying America.
18
@Dave
the same "platitudes about freedom to roam" which your forefathers invoked 150 years ago that made your freedom to roam possible.
Go home and come back when you can do it LEGALLY!
13
Sadly, these countries are in the situation they are in because of US interference (Ronald Reagan years). The US picked a side in civil wars and funded, gve weapons to that side, furthering violence and poverty. Now when the repercussions of that come back to us , we want to say, "that is your country, and your problem". We have to come to an agreement.
And we do also have to redo the immigration laws but not turn a blind eye.
6
I read an academic book in favor of open borders and the right of all humans to migrate. It's a humane concept but impossible to implement. The US would probably add hundreds of millions in short order and entire countries would largely empty out. Look at all the people who mortgage everything they own to give to unreliable criminal smugglers; they could buy first-class airline tickets for less. The well-to-do countries would be overrun; social services and educational institutions would be diminished and there would be violence. That said, we already have a Darwinian policy and many who manage to get here stay here. Of course, if you are a wealthy person you get quick approval. I personally would prefer taking in 100 Central Americans to one Rupert Murdoch.
6
While I am sympathetic, I fear this op-ed comes across as arrogant and not a way to win over critics. Why, thinking your personal belief can override people who claim allegiance and make sacrifices to some peoples, not necessarily America, in maybe Mexico or China, for some common purposes, is narcissistic if not usurpistic.
Yes, we are all renters of this Earth. However, at the same time, as a guest, you don't criticize your host family by saying you have right to stay when they make commitment to keep house
15
Welcome to modernity, where nations have sovereignty, defined borders, and immigration laws.
And just because you (and millions of other foreign nationals just like you) trekked across harsh terrain (with the intention of illegally trespassing across our porous borders) doesn’t entitle you to exploit our country’s resources, our schools, our hospitals, our welfare services, our labor market, our taxpayer dollars, and our birthright citizenship.
Astonishing it is that you...who brazenly, illegally disregard our rule of law... expect to be welcomed with open arms and partake of the so-called American Dream.
26
@Michal
Astonishing that you -- and so many other Americans -- support US administrations that brazenly, illegally fomented coups, assassinated leaders, trained death squads, and destroyed so many countries from which people are now fleeing. But hey, it's all part of the American Dream, right?
4
For those who profess to be Christian, Christ said "Feed the poor, take in the homeless." The statue of Liberty says "give me your poor, your huddled masses..." Our traditions preach love and help to those in need.
5
@carolz Someone from Ecuador is not in need. It is a perfectly fine place to live. This is not a Christian nation. Christianity is much of the problem in Central America. It's why abortion is illegal and over population is an issue. It has nothing to do with a poem on a statue written a long time ago.
1
I believe it was Marilyn Vos Savant who wrote that if she could have one wish it would be that, “everyone would get what they deserve.” I wish that too. Unfortunately, the universe doesn’t work that way. Sometimes giving some people what they deserve causes greater harm to others, making the world a worse place overall. Americans have lived a relatively extremely wealthy lifestyle which most deserved, though the harm we have caused to the planet from that wealth may have caused the world more harm than good. Two points with Central Americans: First, we are transplanting millions of people who are emitting near 1 ton of CO2 per year to a country where will they will likely buy a car, have A/C, take plane trips, and buy food from our extremely polluting agriculture system. Their CO2 emissions will increase dramatically. This could cause the world more harm than good. My second point is an opportunity cost argument. We spend large amounts of money subsidizing Central Americans here in America. That money would go a lot further in their home countries. For example, rather than spend $10,000 plus per year to educate their children here, why not spend $500 per student in their home countries subsidizing the education of 20 times as many children. Our public policies should be about making the world a better place, not a worse one.
2014 per capita CO2 emissions in metric tons:
Honduras: 1.1
Guatemala: 1.2
El Salvador: 1.0
United States: 16.5
8
The writer and the subject of the film is a silly fool playing victim. She has a education from Harvard and is now going to Yale. I suspect for free. That is better then 99.9 percent of the people, who are here legally. Yet, that is not enough for her... she doesn't have enough American Dream.
She chooses to ignore laws and believes that she has an artistic license to do so. She doesn't belong in this county, and doesn't even believe that our county exists. ( No borders please ). Frankly I don't care if she believes in the American dream, I just want her to follow the laws.
If she is here illegally, then kindly go home. Rich liberals and overly idealistic Americans live in a distorted reality, where they can no longer find a balance right and wrong. They have no perspective on us vs them.
Most people don't have a first hand account of these "waste lands". Well, I have hiked a lot in the deserts of Southern New Mexico. This shouldn't be used as a justification for becoming a citizen. It's a rather nice countryside and pleasant to hike in. I have done 100+ miles hiking in those areas. Next thing you know, people will be complaining about Black Friday shopping causing them PTSD and that now they need disability payments.
21
@springtime
The only "distorted reality" is the extravagant lifestyles of hypocritical and duplicitous whites who profess allegiance to "rule of law" when convenient.
1
@MD I don't think that hypocritical and duplicitous are characteristics reserved for one race. I'm sure that many people regardless of race could be put in that category.
1
@Alison
History suggests otherwise.
1
This entire problem starts with terminology. It is no longer correct to call people illegal aliens, which is what they are. "Undocumented" suggests that they are just waiting for some paper and then all is good. It is not. We cannot have a country that allows anyone and everyone to walk in. Times are different now than the early 1900s when the taxpayers were not forced to subsidize this. We are now. And we are tired. I feel badly for people in countries with bad economies, but do not destroy ours to "help" them.
20
My desire to roam compels me to move to Haiti with my (relative to the local economy) fortune. Once there, I intend to buy as much property as I can, become a tenement slumlord, and charge outrageous rent prices.
But until then, I'm just settling for moving out of a neighborhood every time a black family moves in or I start hearing Spanish spoken at the neighborhood store. I feel compelled to roam to the most exclusively white, rich zip codes I can find.
Somehow, I doubt this is what the author has in mind.
3
This is getting sober serious. What is America becoming ? The Land of the Giants that roamed the earth after angelic blessings. The land of Sodom and Gormorah .The land of the heathen Cannanites greedmonger haters of the other
Hebrews 11:2
Continue in brotherly love. 2Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it. 3Remember those in prison as if you were bound with them, and those who are mistreated as if you were suffering with them....
1
There's literally nothing wrong with staying in Ecuador. It's a stable country that's not at war. The whole world is not entitled to move here. Attitudes like this one hold Americans in contempt. They say that Americans literally have no right to control our own society. That is not immigration. It is colonization.
24
Two points to ponder; somewhat related.
First, many of the illegal immigrants claim that they fled because their homeland din not function under the rule of law. then, they break the rule of law by illegally entering or staying hers. That, to me at lease, is somewhere between irony and hypocrisy.
Second, the comment about "Years living as an undocumented immigrant taught me not to believe in the American Dream". The American Dream, or at least my view of it, involves being a legal American and living under the laws, all of them. One cannot, in my view, claim to be a part of the American Dream by picking and choosing what American laws one will obey.
25
If everyone lives like her, then we're creating an "every man for himself" world-- no borders, no laws, no citizens, every one scrambling about, looking for the best deal he can find.
And most important, no obligations to anyone, but myself.
18
The amazing part to me is the attitude that what she wants trumps the laws of the country that she crosses into.
Without rule of law you won't have a habitable place to live. In a way it will become just like the palce she left.
Short-sighted and entitled. She should be deported and not allowed to return.
26
Border between the U.S. and Canada is OK. But why is the border between the U.S. and Mexico not OK?
These immigrants come to the U.S. primarily to escape problems in their native countries (Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama) which includes a stagnant economy, high levels of crime, political corruption and widespread drug use. There is a legal way to request a green card to enter the U.S., however unlawful mobs entry is not allowed. Shame and disgrace of all these central American countries and their governments who fail to feed their people, to give them medical care, good housing, and jobs. These central American countries and their governments are the ones at fault.
Sorry that your country does not love you anymore. To find true love you need to find and walk on God’s Holy road which will one day open the gate to His Kingdom in Heaven. The road you are currently walking is man made and will only bring you tears and despair, darkness and regrets.
2
@manoflamancha Two points. First, Mexico is not in Central America. It is part of North America. Secondly, there is no evidence that widespread drug use is a problem in Central America or in Mexico. It certainly is in the U.S.
2
@Myac - There have been articles in the NYT over the years about armed attacks on drug rehabilitation centers in Mexico.
Also, articles about the border towns focusing on deported people living in Mexico do cite alot of drug use in those areas particularly.
2
@Really That is on Mexico not us.
" I believe all sentient beings should be free to roam."
A very romantic statement. However, I'd be willing to bet that if a random individual whom you didn't know anything about set up housekeeping on your front lawn (or your apartment lobby) you might set a limit on that broad statement.
Every country sets boundaries that they defend. Every country also sets rules about how to go about crossing those boundaries.
Do you think I can, as an American citizen, simply move to Mexico? Retirees are required to show roughly $2000/month income. Expect to pay more plus $500/dependent if you're not retired.
I remember an old surfer regaling me with stories of being an expat in Costa Rica. He and several other Americans worked at a restaurant and had overstayed their visas, making them illegals. They often high tailed it out of the backdoor when immigration came to inspect the business.
People need to get over the idea that they can do what ever they feel necessary for their own lives without consequences. I'm sorry if your home countries are in a mess, that you suffer domestic violence, that gangs threaten your family. Guess what? American women also suffer violence; Chicago, Baltimore and other cities struggle with guns and gang violence, our population is addicted to opiates and antidepressants. Shooting up places of worship is becoming a national pastime.
We're fighting to change the corruption and violence, not fleeing.
19
In the end...”white people wrong, white mans country”. Beginnings of racist thoughts. Any thoughts of people; us v them is racist. Beware of racism.. NO MATTER WHAT COLOR!
7
Native peoples who live escaped the genocide of earlier generations. We fear the militarization at the Southern border will once again bring bullets to decorate the wall with the blood of women and children or anyone else who dares to be 'illegal'.
Those people who debated and wrote the Constitution knew human nature enough to forbid an official religion like the Church of England and the Spanish Inquisition where non-believers did not exist. They did not have the courage to forbid slavery.
We like to tell ourselves were are better than that. Are we?
Dear Deborah,
Perhaps 17,000 years ago humans had the right to roam without conflict. However, homo-sapiens are fierce territorial creatures. Once recorded history began it was clear that the roaming would get you killed. As for the American dream. That phrase is a media construct. I have no idea why any government is responsible for your life ambitions and goals.
EWS
17
My stepdaughter has been waiting almost five years for permission to live in the USA. Her mother, my wife, applied as her sponsor when my wife was diagnosed with cancer, hoping our daughter would be able to be here with her. Sadly, this did not happen before my wife died. My wife, in turn, was not able to get her US visa re-instated when my mother, who loved her like her own daughter, was dying in 2006. My mother's parents both entered the USA legally - in the 1910s, back when there was support for rule of law from both political parties and from the immigrants themselves who sought a fairer, more just country than where they were born. Bottom line: Our family - like many, many other people's families - has not been served by the USA's immigration policies in place for the past few decades. At the same time, illegal immigrants (I detest the euphemism "undocumented persons" - as if we should be concerned about the feelings of people who, upon arrival, break the laws of the country they rail against as unfair to them) attempt to shape the discourse on this subject without for a moment acknowledging their illegal actions. It's all someone else's fault: the government of their former country, the government of the USA, right-wing fanatics, white supremacists, etc, etc. Grow up. Take some responsibility for your illegal actions. The only persons who deserve some accommodation are children of illegal immigrants who became adults while their parents remained here (illegally).
8
I was indifferent to immigration in general and didn't really care both parties looked the other way on illegal immigration until I had two epiphanies:
1. Americans have a huge carbon footprint and every person that steps over the border and consumes at that level makes solving that problem even bigger and harder. It's a foolish course.
2. Non-white immigration is driving the election of right wing governments everywhere, including in the US. Whatever modest benefit might accrue to the US economy by immigration is dwarfed by all the things we are losing or stand to lose as Trump and his minions wreck long established norms, policies, and comity in the country. He is so odious that no financial benefit of any kind is worth the mental distress of seeing the US destroyed. It is that bad.
So, pack your bags and get along home. Other interests outrank you.
9
@Djt
You said, "Non-white immigration is driving the election of right wing governments everywhere, including in the US... So, pack your bags and get along home."
(1) So, you're unhappy with the current swing to the far right and with Trump.
(2) You blame immigrants.
(3) Therefore, you tell immigrants to pack up and go home.
Really? So, I should pack up and go home because you believe it is my fault that Trump is destroying "your country"?
Please listen to yourself; maybe you will hear how little sense you make. I am a Hispanic immigrant. I'm a citizen. I came here legally. I have no intention of leaving my country.
2
@Djt
Do you mean that brown skinned legal residence and brown skin immigrants who are now citizens should pack up and leave?
1
Deborah’s and Karla’s proposals appeal to the emotions but are unworkable because they neglect to engage issues of legality and the legitimate claims of asylum.
Still, although I anticipated many of these responses, I am rather taken aback by the vitriol on display.
Most of these observers never troubled to familiarize themselves with the depth and breadth of American racism that enabled some groups to prosper while excluding others and forcing still others to remain part of the underclass. This history includes immigration laws and racist legislation that allowed Western Europeans unfettered entry while denying entry to members of racialized subcultures—like the Chinese—systematically appropriated American Indian lands and exploited black slave labor.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. The ancestors of many white folks are illegal immigrants and prospered because of discriminatory legislation.
It is laughable that so many white folks are now so quick to distinguish illegal immigration as their bete noir. Coulter’s disingenuous distinction between settlers and immigrants is a case in point. Her “settler” ancestors were part of the cheating class who prospered because of racist legislation.
For those of you whose xenophobic juices were triggered by this piece, you need to familiarize yourself with real American history, not just the whitewashed version.
1
@Tibbs There is not a single nation in the Western Hemispere that was not formed through some initial combination of European invasion and settlement, Indigenous dispossession, and African enslavement.
Not one.
The history is ugly and can't be changed. It's also repeated throughout the world. Arabs and Turks used to rule the Iberian peninsula and Eastern Europe. Now they don't. Greeks used to rule Constantinople. Not any more. And so on.
The question today however is do human beings have the right to move into other nations without the permission of the people currently living there. And the answer is no.
Guatemala is just as much of a European settler state as the US. Central Americans have no special dispensation to move to the US,
13
@Lilo
You know more than most.
It’s just that white folks invoke “rule of law” when convenient.
Do you think Trump cares about rule of law?
If only you knew what I know about the US military.
I'm not sure I understand the logic in this sentence: "Years living as an undocumented immigrant taught me not to believe in the American Dream." If you don't believe in the country, why do you want to live here?
14
@Peter Blau Because we're terrible people obviously. That's the message of the pro illegal lobby. Insult Americans and then demand the right to stay. It's what will get Trump another term.
16
@Peter Blau
You saw that, too?
2
It's called a dream because you've gotta be asleep to believe it! And it's becoming more of a nightmare these days.
3
The "freedom to roam" is how all cultures have been created, and how our country was created as well as how outer space is being explored. We all seem to have within us that desire for adventure, for new places, and for new visions of living. In this age of migration, there has not been as much freedom to roam. Countries become concerned of their culture changing at the hand of immigrants. This is a very short-sighted view, since culture and people are always changing. We cannot keep life in homeostasis, any more than we can live forever. We are only the custodians of this planet; our illusion of control ends every 100 years or less.
3
@K.M You still have to obey local laws when you roam. This includes immigration laws.
8
So many people here go on about following the law. And directly or indirectly call people that cross the border lawbreakers. Victimizing them. Even those of you with sympathetic voices don't get it. Point 1. As the filmmaker mentions going to the US is a mythic experience. People look to it with hope. They'll be respected by their family and peers at home. Sending money after braving the perils of the crossing and the mostly abuse they suffer. Point 2. YOU are the lawbreakers! You hire them and take advantage of them. And YOU KNOW. I've talked with so many employers of undocumented workers. They laugh when they say the worker gave them papers. If they bothered at all. It's your fault. Employers love them. No more employee rules. They work hard and can't complain. So with them as you will. You can even be nice and polite. Laughing all the way to the bank. America is not a land of opportunity. It's a land of oppression. Because None of you follow your own laws and then victimize your workers - calling THEM lawless. When you offered them work. You're disgusting
12
@Dan Ellsworth
What a fascinating perspective. Your notion that illegal immigrants are victimized by American citizens who believe in the rule of law feels hollow and without substance. Laws are the foundation of our society, without them we have nothing binding us together. I'm sorry, but when someone crosses the border illegally they are not entitled to anything other than a bus ticket home. What I do agree with is that employers hiring illegal immigrants should be punished to the full extent of the law.
23
@Dan Ellsworth
I agree with you about the USA employers illegally hiring people who have illegally entered the USA.
I also believe that the problem the USA is dealing with is the direct result of failed states and cultures of multiple countries, including Mexico. Mexico has substantial natural resources and people who want to work. However, Mexico has failed its own people and provides no hope for millions of its people.
If Mexicans solve their own problems, then illegal immigration will not be a problem for the USA.
11
@Dan Ellsworth
What pompous justification. If there were no illegals, the businesses wouldn't be able to hire them. It's a chicken and egg scenario.
How can anyone modern day NOT know that coming to the US illegally is going to be dangerous - crossing the desert, unscrupulous coyotes, abuse - and that once here they will only be hired by employers willing to look the other way which can lead to exploitation.
Word seems to get south of the border that crossing with children is an advantage; that you better leave now because things might be tightening up soon. Workers send money back home so that they can bring family members here. If things are so awful for the majority, why would they do that? So relatives also become indentured?
I believe employers who knowing hire illegals should be prosecuted and all those in their employ without valid papers should be sent home. They ARE breaking the law just as flagrantly as those who employ them.
8
We can either have open-borders or a generous welfare state. We cannot have both and also balance the budget. Pick one. Thanks.
11
I have a project for Deborah S. Esquenazi to consider, a project idea that grows out of reading Ali Smith's best yet, Spring and in thinking about the path followed by my Swedish maternal great grandfather, the first on either side of my lines of descent to make his way to Rumford RI.
Filmmaker Esquenazi can contact as many of the first 20 Reader Picks as possible, They have one thing in common, they express strongly negative opinions about Karla, about people who roam, and about anyone they can tag as "illegal immigrants".
Ms. Esquenazi could begin by asking each of the 20 about the first members in the lines of descent, maternal and paternal, who arrived in America.
She could start with Fireweed, who states that she/he knows that her parents and grandparents waited for years in a displaced persons camp "to get here legally". Where were they waiting? Why? When? They sound like asylum seekers to me, finally chosen and given documents that allowed them to come.
My maternal great grandfather was living in Sweden when people were starving - you can read about this in a fine book, Svälten, Famine. A period of climate change here made it difficult to grow enough food to get by. Somehow, he got to Canada, and one day walked across the border. Illegal economic migrant, I guess.
Ali Smith: "I arrived, you gave me a letter-Welcome to the country in which you are not welcome. You are now a designated unwelcome person with whom we will do as we please."
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot
1
@Larry Lundgren: My maternal grandfather was on the crew of an ocean liner that sailed between Hamburg, Germany, and New York. After the fifth crossing, he jumped ship and spent his first night in America on a park bench in Hoboken, NJ.
He became a schoolteacher and then an attorney.
My only argument with open borders is that it wouldn't work unless it was reciprocal. There are any number of countries I wouldn't mind living in, but I'm not allowed to.
6
It's kind of shocking how ignorant commenters here are.
It's the Trump Administration that is "lawless."
People who come here and claim Asylum are doing something PERFECTLY LEGAL. **Even if they cross the border illegally.** It is Black letter law. Fully adjudicated. The Trump Administration is preventing them from entering legally.
Instead the Trump Administration:
Terrorizes them with ICE policing. Prevents them from declaring Asylum at the border with bullspit quotas per day? Forces them to wait in camps? Makes them wait in Mexico by the thousands? Forced busing to Sanctuary Cities?
ALL ILLEGAL.
All Trump Administration Policy hoping "they" will give up and go back "where they came from" (and die).
White people with money who can fly in an overstay visas, can STILL fly in an overstay their visas by the millions. But The Trump Administration only cares about the desperate brown people walking across the Southern Border because their "policy" is driven by racism.
RACISM.
Racism.
Not economics.
Not National Security.
Not problems with gangs.
Not crime.
Not anything rational.
Racism.
9
@Dejah
I do not believe it is racism that is driving calls for protecting the southern border - it is pragmatism. If hundreds of thousands, or millions, of poor, desperate people flood into the U.S., how is that going to help our ongoing problems with poverty, homelessness, and health care, to name a just a few. With resources already spread thin, how will we be able to assist all of these folks to the extent necessary for them to build a life here? And how long before they tire of "doing the jobs Americans won't do?" At some point they will realize they are being used to do the dirty work.
12
@Dejah Every President since Nixon has brought up our inadequate immigration and border situation. How short minded can so many be in thinking this is all about Trump. Isn't the violence and corruption in Central America a direct result of American's use of illegal drugs. If someone wants to point the finger at anything they should notice that there are 3 pointing back at them. Affixing the blame is a lame excuse for personally doing nothing to fix the problem.
1
@Dejah
Trump is trying to reign in the Asians who overstay their visa's, as well.
4
The sentimental, beloved cowboy song “Home on the Range” expresses longing for “…a home where the buffalo roam,” a place “where seldom is heard a discouraging word/and the skies are not cloudy all day.” This is a “don’t fence me in” attitude that freedom-loving white Americans cherish. Evidently, for some it’s become mighty important that it doesn’t apply to anyone else.
3
@Elliot Silberberg Please look up what black Americans like Antonio Moore or Yvette Carnell have to say about illegal immigration before you imply that only white Americans are concerned about this issue or that such concerns are only based in white supremacist thinking.
2
This is a beautiful thought that, like many beautiful thoughts, is not workable. None of us gets the American Dream really. Just a busted up or watered down version that we learn to accept after actual experience teaches us how to separate the myth from the reality. Yes, we are very lucky to be here. Yes, we should strive to help other countries provide for their people. Yes, we should constantly revise our immigration system so that it aligns with the needs and reality of the moment. Yes, all people should be treated with dignity. But no, we cannot have unfettered immigration. We are already fighting over school funding, health care access, housing, etc. For all our challenges we live in a country that works as well as it does because we have laws and systems in place that we must abide by in order for them to actually work. Immigration should be monitored and regulated. All people should be treated with dignity. And of course, everyone's perspective should be listened to and considered. That's one of our laws ;D
For the record, I'd like to see our current presidential administration voted out of office so we get back to having a well- reasoned, compassionate conversation around immigration policy with best practices that do NOT traumatize people.
59
@Emma
The American dream is a dream,not a right. Not a guarenteee. Most people understand that.
30
America has and always will be about white priviledge. All their protests about their glorious Constitution and founding fathers is fake. They have hated someone somewhere always. A disgusting country.
3
Leaving aside the rights and wrongs for a moment, the fact is that the US does not have the will or focus to control its borders. Certainly the ADHD Tweeter-in-Chief doesn't and the Dems don't even know if they want to. Determined migrants can make it across the border and find a new, somewhat less oppressive life than in their county of origin.
In the coming decades Mexico and Central America are projected to add millions of people. That and deteriorating environmental conditions driven by global warming will ensure a constant stream of economic, climate and political refugees. This is just getting started.
Somehow people have gotten the idea that the ‘American Dream’ is about coming to the US. It isn’t. It’s about providing a model of freedom and prosperity that can happen anywhere, not just the states. The People of nations who have embraced and fought for the dream, where they are, have often done quite well. Sometimes not, but we can still hope.
11
What about the trauma associated with American STEM workers losing their jobs to H-1B visa holders? The additional trauma and humiliation that comes with being forced to train their replacements? Our citizens, especially in low-skilled jobs like construction, services and manufacturing, have for several decades been traumatized by stagnating wages as this nation has been overrun by waves of cheap foreign workers. Where are their stories?
23
@Dave Gorak
Well said.
4
@springtime Thank you!
You began with a statement of belief. Thank you for doing that, it established very clearly where you were going to go with this. You are a "screenwriter and film director" which, to me, sounds like you are very creative. Creative people can feel unconstrained by objective reality and can feel that other people are obstacles to achieving whatever their favored vision happens to be. You can impose your vision on film because film will not push back. Other people will not be so pliant, and your efforts to impose your vision and will on them will frequently fail. You believe national borders are illegitimate and can be ignored with impunity. You're wrong. Until and unless nations dissolve or merge, national borders will be a fact of life and will be managed (or not) through the laws of the countries, and the laws of the countries will reflect (however imperfectly) the preferences of its citizens. No lyrical prose from you can or will change that.
16
Our immigration system is broken and in need of immediate repair. We want a rationale and sustainable program that attracts immigrants who can add to our economic and cultural prosperity. However, illegal immigration cannot be seen as a primarily humanitarian issue (as many supporters would like). If you break the law, cross our border, you are cheating the system and jumping in front of hundreds of thousands of law abiding immigrants who are waiting their turn. The only thing illegal immigrants are entitled to is a bus ticket home.
17
@John
Couldn't disagree more.
@John Hey, let's not get self righteous about cheating the system. Trump has been cheating the system all of his life. All those who wish to enter the U.S. can't be admitted. But to go from that valid point, to the demonization of refugees who have the healthy goal of escaping poverty and crime, that's shameful.
Jews trying to escape Hitler were also trying to cheat the system. Remember? The country should try to do the best it can in an unjust world, balancing what is practical and possible with what is the right thing. Inventing the existence of fake criminal hordes is not worthy of this country; it's despicable.
1
It is not the people who come here seeking asylum that are problematic for our country. It is the people who come here who do not need asylum, but want jobs better than wha tis offered in their homeland. The employers in this country who break the law and hire illegal immigrants do so because they want to exploit them. They pay less money, engage in wage theft and don't bother with a host of other things. In the end, it hurts all of us. There are legal pathways into America, many people have followed them and lived here and went on to raise families and prospered. To rationalize sneaking across the border insults all who worked hard to become citizens.
21
America gave my ancestors everything their native country could not and would not provide, the opportunity to have a decent life gotten by hard work . 120 years later am I ever so grateful to belong to this imperfect nation.
14
Sanctuary city's are illegal
15
I would like to understand the proliferation of the apostrophe being used incorrectly to pluralize words. I see this constantly in recent years. Where do people learn this?
2
How did Karla’s friend, an illegal alien, graduate from Harvard? Did she support herself by working, thereby most probably using a fake SS card? Who paid for her tuition, room and board and books?
Sad to say her friend is not only illegal but is a criminal. Harvard should be investigated for bestowing any illegal alien full scholarships and room snd board, which discriminates against any student who is a US citizen, who applied and was rejected because Harvard chose an illegal over an American.
20
@Pvbeachbum
It is Karla Cornejo Villaviciencia who is the Harvard graduate. She also went to Yale for graduate school. I believe that she is still in their program. The two universities knew about her immigrant status.
@NYC Independent And we can all assume the fact that she's an illegal wasn't a reason they virtue signaled and rushed to welcome her there, right? Sure.
6
@Humane Resources
I believe that there was a story in the NYT about the time that Karla matriculated at Harvard. She was an exceptionally brilliant student. She's developed into a gifted writer. You and I may not be in sync with her positions, but that doesn't take away from the legitimate reasons that she was sought after by elite universities like Harvard and Yale.
I am about as liberal as any, and identify as a democratic socialist, but come on, the UN High Commissioner on Human Rights is very clear that nations have a right to borders, to protect them, and to make people leave when they break the law and illegally cross that border.
No, open borders is not a good thing, it will mean the demise of any hope of the progressive changes we Americans need, like national health care and a decent job for all.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
22
It's really simple and comes down to this: Go home then.
19
By the way folks, don't blame liberals for this confused thinking. This is an anarchist far out on the fringe, not a liberal by any means. Really when anarchy gets far enough, it turns right into fascism, rule by the strong. Whatever you can take by force of might, you deserve, that's the thinking here.
I'm a solid liberal, I despise Trump, I welcome legal immigration, I want social security and socialized medicine. But I absolutely reject all the foolhardy, unworkable ideas in this article.
24
Since the NYT and other media constantly write how terrible our government is, how the American Dream is dead for Americans, and in general that we are a terrible nation, then why is it that everyone wants to come here? Our population does not need increasing. We have more than enough diversity as it is. I would prefer that immigration be closed entirely although if we have to allow them in, they should be limited to only those who come with viable job skills (medical doctors, engineers), the ability to speak English, and at least 250K in hard cold cash.
12
Since we cannot ask certain foreign nationals (i.e. the undocumented) to abide by our laws we are compelled to use coercion. It seems to be the only thing they respect.
16
Why is this being published? No one who manages to 'get here' has any right to stay here. NO ONE. The American dream only happens when we all follow the law. Not the Law we like or the Law we want, the Law that is already in place. If you do not follow the Law the American Dream is forbidden fruit. For everyone. Including people who are born here by the way. Just try to break any law you don't like and see what happens to you if you don't believe me.
20
When my father came to this country as a 40 year old refugee from Nazi Germany with my mother and me in tow, he saved string.
He arrived nearly penniless, had very little English except what he could discern as a result of his gymnasium classes in Latin and Greek and found a job at a May Company Department Store as a worker in their stockroom.
Thrifty by nature and upbringing, he was astounded to learn that large quantities of string were being discarded every day, and began saving the string for reuse later.
For his trouble, he got laughed at by the other stock boys and his boss, all of them native-born Americans.
Skip ahead a few years, and my father and mother had opened a tiny store where they and several chocolate-dippers made chocolates, which in turn ultimately enabled them to purchase a house and pay my way through college.
The May Company has since gone out of business, and I guess the stock boys who laughed at my father went out of business with it. Doubtless, many of them who still survive and their children are currently members-in-good-standing of Trump’s mob.
Not all of the refugees I have known made out as well as my father, but many did and some made out even better.
If I was in put in charge of attracting more people for some sparsely populated country -- say Greenland, Iceland or parts of the USA -- I’d look for refugees from persecution and migrants attempting to escape life-threatening poverty and political disorder who know how to save string.
6
@A. Stanton
There was a time in the past when we were not over-populated for our diminishing resources, and your father arrived at that good time. People don't want to emigrate to Greenland or Iceland. They want to come here. One of the people in the story has a 20 year old deportation order. In 20 years, you'd think he would have done something to become a US citizen if he wanted to live here permanently. We can't take in every single person who wants to live here. It isn't heartless. It's reality.
15
@Daphne
It seems to me that if you have a deportation order you cannot go the authorities in order to begin the process of becoming a citizen because the minute they know where you are, WHO you are, you GET DEPORTED! It’s a catch 22 situation, so 20 years or 20 days don’t make any difference in your ability to legalize your status.
@A. Stanton At over three hundred million and counting we are not sparsely populated. The only places that are here are places with lousy climates and few resources.
Try "roaming" into Denmark where you'll receive polite, and non negotiable directions to France.
33
There's a fundamental discrepancy here between the self-serving point of view - which is all this is, not a fact - that there it is humans' right to roam and the reality of the world we live in in which the planet is divided into nations. Like it or not nations have no obligation to allow citizens of other nations to come and go at will. A significant portion of the world's population would prefer to live in the United States but that doesn't mean they have the right to do so and it does not mean we, the citizens of the U.S., have any kind of obligation to accept it. Many of us do believe the country already has too large a population and don't wish to end up being like China with a billion + people. Immigrants may work and contribute to the economy but on the whole the taxpayers contribute more to them than they do to the country.
33
Well, at least I respect the writer for being forthcoming and saying she doesn't believe in border controls. Most Americans, including myself, think that's pie in the sky, unworkable. I wish advocates of open borders, like AOC (doesn't abolishing ICE imply open borders?) would articulate how they think society can function without border controls.
32
@James
...or how much of their "freedom to roam" has them preferring here to elsewhere, here where the laws they disrespect are the foundation of the freedoms they seek..."doing what it takes " is not the same as "taking what you can."
13
I am torn about this piece. I have great sympathy for and I support immigrants, all of them. I am an immigrant myself, having come from Ecuador, the same country Karla immigrated from when I was five years old, also Carla’s country of birth. Trump’s language of dehumanization of immigrants is wrong on many levels, and I won’t go into why other than to say that immigration is necessary for the American economy to grow. However, just because you went through the border, no matter at what age, does not give you the right to stay here legally or the right to citizenship. I have siblings and cousins who never came to the United States because they chose not to wait the 10 to 15 years it would have taken. Either they stayed in Ecuador or they went to the EU.
The reason immigrants should be allowed into the US and DACA recipients should be allowed to stay legally is because economically they have been integral to the American economy. Our economy would not be vibrant without immigration. Plain and simple, this country would not be the great country and economy it is without immigrants.
23
@NYC Independent
Ecuador is a beautiful country with a vibrant culture. It may be less materially rich, but it is not miserable by any measurement, from basic health care to nice things like coffee shops and art galleries. Different people have their own reasons to want to live in one place or another but we should quit putting down places other than the US or the EU. There is a big, colorful, interesting world out there - Ecuador is part of it and we should be more curious about that world. I wish we stopped talking about immigrants and the economy: if they contribute so much here, imagine how much they can contribute to their own countries; it is selfish to deprive weaker countries of their most valuable and creative human resources.
10
@Bar tennant
Actually, they are.
@Georgiana
I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Can you explain it again?
Did you think that I was "putting down places other than the US or the EU"? Because that's clearly not what I said.
It seems that you want me to stop talking about immigration and the economy. I will not. Here's why: The American people are not having an honest conversation about immigrants precisely because they are not looking at the entire picture, but rather what conforms their preconceived notions.
I'm a Hispanic immigrant (from Ecuador) who has contributed a great deal to the American economy. I'm a retired banking executive, Ivy League educated; I probably pay more taxes than most people on this thread. I've contributed to the community my entire adult life, through non-profit boards for education, arts, and social service organizations, and charitable contributions. I know many Hispanics--none are welfare recipients, drug sellers, criminals, rapists, or belong to gangs. Plenty have started businesses, contributed to the community, served in the armed forces, paid plenty of taxes.
Moreover, the American population is aging. Our aging demographics are working against our growing, vibrant economy. Please look at what is happening in Japan--precisely because they refuse to grow their population through immigration. Who do you think is going to pay for the opiod epidemic if Americans are too old to work? Who do you think will pay into Social Security?
The error that the author makes right there in the first sentence is I believe we have the right to roam. Will you can believe that but that's not how the world works. It's up to each and every country to decide what their policies on immigration and migration will be. Just because you feel entitled to roam anywhere you want does not give you the right to roam anywhere you want and live there.
47
@dbw75
What immigrants do have is the right, a right we give them, to cross our border at any time in any place, turn themselves in to any official, and request asylum. No limitations, no questions asked. No abuse or mistreatment.
Its our law. Its how we want it to be.
If anyone is breaking the law its our President and frightened people like you.
The 'crisis at the Southern border' is a made-for-media fantasy of the Right, a creation of foreign policy born of greed, fear, deep-seated racism.
Yes a lot of people desire to apply for asylum, but they're forced to sleep on Mexican bridges, willing to risk death, paraded before cameras, held in filthy cages (for massive profit) because that's what you want them to do.
This is why we're perceived as a scared little people, dishonest, greedy, arrogant, dangerous. If your world is more dangerous than just two years ago its because you made it that way.
Oh...stupid. Did I mention the world thinks we're plain stupid?
Because they do, and they're right. Look at your precious economy, the one you like to believe immigrants are here to plunder. We can't fill jobs, good jobs, we need done if we're to continue growing. Real Americans refuse them, or are too ignorant to qualify.
We can't build buildings to house our voracious tech sector. We can't maintain infrastructure (if you believe we want to), we can't harvest our crops or teach our children for lack of people desperate to come here and help out.
@oogada
First, our job sector will do just fine without a monthly influx 100,000 unskilled, non-English speaking migrants and their children.
And while it is legal to seek asylum, the crisis part is that the vast majority know they do not qualify for that designation, so they bring kids, which requires them to be released into the population where they have babies, establish roots, and then scream racism when they lose their claim and face LEGAL deportation. That's not now the asylum law was envisioned and everyone knows it.
Finally, calling the rest of us frightened, ignorant racists surely feels good but does nothing to prove your point.
2
@oogada. illegal immigrants have the right to ask for asylum, undergo a generous process set forth by our laws, and nothing else. Pretending that every “refugee” has a valid claim to remain in the greatest country of the world (a country that you seem to despise) is as false as your understanding of what it means to live in a democracy. If that’s the mentality of those you defend, no wonder Trump’s message resonates with so many.
3
Most of the comments here agree that the US functions according to the rule of law and anyone here not in accordance with the law has no right to be here. This is not an unreasonable point of view.
That said, if I had been unlucky enough to be born south of the Mediterranean or of the Rio Grand, I would not be responsible for the economic or political conditions which fate choose for me, i would head north and neither laws nor danger would stop me. And you would too ! I doubt that unlawful emigration into e.g the European Union or to the USA can be stopped all the while the incentives to partake in our well-to-do and secure invironment, are so great.
11
I would do everything to survive as well. But I wouldn't display such an entitled attitude; I would show gratitude.
39
@Lifelong Reader
When you're desperate and afraid, confronted with abusive authority determined not to listen to a word you have to say, there is no place for gratitude.
That comes when you finally feel safe, respected, given a chance.
Those things are the hallmark of our asylum policy: no guarantee of success, just a fair chance to make your case in safety and an environment of openness and support. Do what you're supposed to do, and you'll have your gratitude.
Meanwhile, if there's an immigration crisis its in Washington, not at "the Southern border".
The very politicians now flashing their blood lust and bigotry in an attempt to look like big, bad American men have refused four thirty, forty years to make our immigration policy effective. Flat out refused.
Whatever chaos you choose to see at the border is created on purpose by wee men in suits too scared or indolent to do the only job they have.
2
@Slioter My relatives went back to fight the Nazis. These people refuse to stand up to them at home. How are conditions supposed to change when they don't?
3
To say that those who cross the desert to make it to America deserve to stay is equivalent to saying those who drill through a bank vault deserve the gold within.
76
@Jason, with all due respect, the comparison of immigration to the US as drilling through a bank vault is a false analogy. The US is not a pile of gold waiting to be taken. Rather, the wealth of our country is, and has always been, the idea of opportunity and the subsequent ability it affords to any and all who make it here and work to seize that opportunity. All of us here "legally" have benefitted from that opportunity. To deny a shot at such a basic human need to improve ones station in life is short-sighted and selfish.
And to make a point that cannot bear over-repeating, we are better than that.
14
@Spud His point wasnt that America is a pile of gold. His point was that breaking the law to get something that is not yours is not anyone's "right."
Any nation has the right to set laws as they see fit. Just because you don't like the laws doesn't mean you can skirt them for your own benefit.
12
@Jason your comparison is insulting to those who suffer all sorts of human rights violations in their countries of origin. Be in Central American or in the Midde East. People wouldn’t leave their friends, parents, neighbors with the psychopath intention of robbing your country. You should ask yourself why they are escaping from war and hunger. Probably the robber lives right here in your country. Your government has been invading, destroying, and robbing other countries for a long time. The devastation is beyond horror. Be informed.
In my American dream it’s a land filled of people who follow the law.
Just saying.
50
@D. Arnold
So you favor arresting Mr. Trump, and deporting him along with his formerly illegal wife and her chain-migration family?
I agree.
3
@D. Arnold - Then it's time for Donnie and his Admin to go. They all have not followed our laws.
3
@D. Arnold
Just saying? Are you also just saying that the US has destroyed a lot of the countries from which people are fleeing? Are you also just saying that the American criminals -- in high office -- who've done so are "people who follow the law"?
Just saying indeed.
3
Illegal crossings into another country has nothing to do with Homer's concept of the heroic or the idea of a myth. What is clear in this piece is that the narrative of impunity permeates the actions of people who feel entitled to live in the US, disregarding the laws of this country. The author and her subjects fail to recognize the moral error of their actions, something the Greek heroes never forgot, or paid dearly when they did. Nobody born outside the US "deserves to be here", American citizenship requires active participation in a society that strives to be fair for all, but it is paramount that all citizens respect the laws of the country. Obviously if you are not raised within this context, the law is meaningless, as the author and her subjects clearly feel their selfish needs and desires must overrule everything else. This anti- heroic idea is what led Venezuela to be governed by despots, as well as the many countries the so-called refugees come from. Too bad Karla didn't learn this in Harvard.
61
I don’t think anybody who isn’t born here DESERVES to be here in this country or any country for that matter. I wasn’t born here but was given the opportunity to stay here and become a citizen. I am a professional but any country could do just fine without me. I am not special and can’t claim that I DESERVE to be here. No country has any obligation towards me no matter what my circumstances or accomplishments are. If a country needs your skills or labor and they accept you it is just a transaction. If you are an asylum seeker or trying to escape hardship in your country, any country that accepts you does it out of kindness. They are not obligated to save you and you don’t deserve anything just because you made it here.
73
Ms. Esquenazi:
If this country is so bad then why do you stay?
61
My fellow liberals often confuse me.
They are all ready to lock up Felicity Huffman for cheating to get her kid into college. But if a foreigner cheats to get into this country, they fully support it.
81
To be clear, the author, who does not believe in the American Dream made a documentary about an undocumented woman who went to Harvard?
70
Undocumented immigrants shouldn't believe in the American dream because they are not Americans and shouldn't even be here. Surviving a desert journey in no way makes someone more worthy of entrance. It's not some mythical achievement, it's a crime.
58
Why is there only an "American DREAM"? Whatever happened to the Canadian or Mexican or Australian DREAM? Why is this always upon us for some superficial reason?
If anything, it's actually more of a nightmare today.
Also, today there is no longer that other thing called the 'melting pot'.
There is so little, if any, assimilation going on today.
37
It’s a glaring irony that what makes America attractive to immigrants is rooted in our system of laws, which makes our country more pleasant than those to the south which are lawless by comparison. But then how does one reconcile the lawless act of illegal border crossing as a means to enjoy an orderly country of laws?
69
You may believe what you want to believe, but the US is a country of laws. If you didn't like it you shouldn't have come; if you don't like it, you are free to leave. You don't need an exit visa to go, just go.
42
Karla, It is difficult to mesh what we see as our own reality with the conditions of the real world-but we must if we are to thrive. The birth lottery and arrogance of the lucky is not yours now. It can be and in a civilized and sharing world it ought to be. But it isn't at the moment. It appears that you have many qualities and attributes to help you in your quest. If I could suggest that you work within the conditions of the world as much as possible, assume a pace of calm steely patience as you optimistically pursue your odyssey for yourself and later for others.
8
I don’t believe all sentient beings should be free to roam across borders without the permission of the people on the other side, anymore than I believe any sentient being has the right to come into my house without my permission. Crossing, making the journey does not give anybody the right to stay anywhere. Our birthright is our native country, not other peoples’ native countries.
88
A good lesson. Should be taught to all potential illegal immigrants before they take step one.
Get the visa first before the dream can become the reality. Ellis Island taught previous generations that lesson for decades.
44
I am pretty sure my ancestors did not have visas when they came here, 1885-1911. They just showed up with an address in a piece of paper.
14
@Julie Zuckman’s People were turned away at Ellis Island. Not many, about 2% of the 12 million (1892 to 1954,) according to the Google. It was a time when the policy of the country was to admit people because the leaders recognized the need for a growing population to help settle the country (obviously settle also means occupy land of indigenous people.) The U.S. still has a need for relatively unskilled labor to do the jobs that citizens will no longer do. That doesn't mean open borders any more than Ellis Island meant open borders.
16
@Steve Americans won't do lousy jobs for lousy wages. Since when the Dems become the party of the Chamber of Commerce and lowered wages? You couldn't even get on the boat unless you were skilled and healthy.
2
"All sentient beings should be free to roam" - are there any limits to this? Can they roam into my car, my house?
82
@Sue
The analogy between a home and a national border is weak but so prevalent here. Borders existing to prohibit immigration, rather than draw lines and consolidate central power, are much newer than human migration. And domiciles not quite so much. One is arbitrary, the other a natural means of survival.
@London223 If they are so arbitrary why are so many people so anxious to be on the other side of them?
2
This article lost me at the first sentence. To "roam" is to wander aimlessly. While I support undocumented immigrants, they certainly don't end up here by wandering aimlessly. And "freedom to roam" doesn't describe entering a country illegally any more than "freedom to share" describes stealing my neighbor's car. Let's please humanize and support these very real people, but leave the magical linguistics behind.
39
"I believe all sentient beings should be free to roam. It’s our birthright."
It is no one's birthright to invade their neighbors and expect to be welcomed with healthcare, schooling, and all other government services, while at the same time undermining their neighbors' economy and taking their jobs by working for slave wages. It is no invader's birthright to demand that their neighbor shelter them from the law when they commit crimes. It is no invader's birthright to expect their neighbors to provide translators because they can't even be bothered to learn their neighbors' language. It is no invader's birthright to bring their children on dangerous journeys through dangerous country, and then complain when some of them don't make it. It is no invader's birthright to expect their neighbors to make their children citizens.
If this is what is expected of us, we might as well declare the US to be one country with Mexico and Central America.
Press One for English.
83
No sympathy here. Every country has a right to protect its borders. If your first act in my country is to break the law, you are merely bringing the lawlessness of your country to mine and that is unacceptable. A Homeric journey indeed, it was a Homeric journey watching that self-serving video to the end. No you do not have the right to be here because you got here. With 100k trying to cross the border each month, the only policy is a zero tolerance policy. Some have legitimate claims, but not that many. I can think of no other country that let's this happen.
74
@thewriterstuff I didn't even watch the video. The premise of the first sentence was enough.
-legal immigrant and US citizen.
7
"Years living as an undocumented immigrant taught me not to believe in the American dream." I sympathize with (many) undocumented immigrants. But as to that sub-headline, the only response I have is, "Oh, well!"
31
This is absurd.
It’s like saying that years of living secretly and illegally in someone else’s house taught me not to believe in the value of home ownership.
The American Dream isn’t a right; you don’t get it free with a box of cornflakes. You have to want it, sacrifice a lot for it, work hard for it, really earn it, and the entire process starts with being in the country legally.
84
Trauma brain? seriously?
I've spent 15 years in this country as a legal immigrant. I'm still on a visa and not eligible (yet) for a Green Card(Indians have long wait times).
I had to redo my training as a physician in the US all over again. My whole life is here. my house, my friends, my calling, my passions and my career.
I've helped create at least 10+ jobs when I started an specialized ICU.
If my visa doesn't get renewed I'll be crushed. my world will collapse.
But guess what...
I'll go back to my country and start all over again.
That's how the law works. we do not get to decide which laws "are correct".
PS: I've paid into Medicard and SSI for 15 years-which I will never see again if I have to go home. And I knew this when I came here.
99
@jack: This is a wonderful comment. I really hope that you'll get to stay. Sounds like we're lucky to have you.
32
@Dave True. Except you are entitled to your SSI benefits even if you have to leave the country - which I hope you won't have to.
1
I await the tearful piece advocating the rights of white-collar professionals around the world to realize their dreams and "roam" to the US.
24
They don’t have to cry. They just get to do it.
8
Well yeah, the American dream is only achievable if you're here via one of the several above-board channels. As well it should be. Can you imagine if every American who is bereft over the state out our healthcare system, or our President, or the fact that Social Security will run out of money soon just up and left and showed up on the shores of Sweden or Norway, demanding to partake in the strong social safety net that _their_ citizens have financed for themselves over decades of very high taxes etc? Ridiculous.
48
Undocumented immigrants (aka illegal aliens) are by definition criminals. That is, they are in this country illegally.
Americans welcome LEGAL immigrants, but do not want ILLEGAL immigrants. They recognize that the US cannot afford (or choose not) to support our own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al., and that they and other US taxpayers cannot possibly support the hundreds of millions of foreigners who would like to come here.
US laws allow foreigners to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws are in this country illegally and should be detained and deported; this is policy in other countries, too.
The cruelty lies not in limiting legal immigration, or detaining and deporting illegal immigrants, or forcing those who wish to enter the US to wait for processing. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is encouraging parents to bring their children on the dangerous trek to US borders and teaching the parents how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, etc. Indeed, many believe bringing children on such perilous journeys constitutes child abuse.
No other nation has open borders, nor should the US.
43
Once upon a time in the not too distant past I was approached by a youngish, not unattractive (can I say that?) woman in a Home Depot parking lot pleading for $20 to pay for a motel room. She explained that she was five months pregnant and was leaving her abusive boyfriend. I immediately felt sorry for her and wanted to giver her $100, hold her in my arms to comfort her and say, "There, there. Everything will be alright", but not one half a second later (I am a photographer so I know the duration of half a second, and it was not half a second) I realized that her jittery nervousness was probably a side effect of meth and my now suspicious mind surmised she was speaking the deniable code of a prostitute looking for a paying john. But I felt sorry for her being five months pregnant and running away from an abusive boyfriend. What depraved human would not feel sorry for her? Unfortunately she did not like my suggestions to seek aid from assorted charitable organizations and quickly drove away.
Scammers always want you to feel pity for them, and for you to give up what they want.
34
"I believe all sentient beings should be free to roam", okay but not free to plant themselves wherever it suits them at the moment, especially if that same spot is already occupied. White men from Europe freely roaming North America displaced the native population. If you could go back with your camera I wonder what those natives would have to say about it.
The American Dream is and always has been largely a myth like our streets paved with gold. We have however until recently under trump been a nation of laws, conventions and processes. Your naive thinking about being a free soul does not change that reality romantic and Beat Generational notions aside . America for better or worse is a nation, it is not an open free range, even the buffalo are gone..
My best friend is an immigrant from a former communist eastern European Country. He got a chance along with his wife to get a green card he won in his native countries lottery. He was young, well educated and ambitious, He too wanted the American Dream. Five years later as naturalized citizens, he wanted to bring his children here from a previous marriage, it took him 10 years to be able to get them here, legally. Even as he has watched the decline under trump, he is proudly American. He does not believe nor do I that anyone should be able to circumvent our immigration laws as outdated and unfair as they may be and expect instant status as an American. Illegal means illegal. Congratulations on your own citizenship.
27
I lived and worked in Mexico for many years. Their immigration laws are very strict and are enforced. If you want to visit any maquiladora along the border you must show your FMN work permit to get past the guard. If not, you go home.
The United States doesn't owe anybody anything, especially those who don't respect our laws. You can always go home.
53
People here illegally want it to not only be normalized, but seen as heroic and now, apparently, a birthright.
That's how we ended up with Trump.
52
Well, if you're not in the U.S. legally and you don't believe in the American dream then you should leave. Meanwhile, as the Democratic party veers toward an open borders policy, the probability of a Trump 2020 victory increases.
50
Undocumented immigrants do not have the right to the American dream, nor should they.
And just because they succeed at scamming the system - at taxpayers' expense and the loss of services to needy American citizens - does not entitle them to stay.
41
"I believe all sentient beings should be free to roam. It’s our birthright."
Your beliefs have nothing to do with legal rights in the United States. US citizens determine what their rights are.
" “If you crossed, if you made the journey, if people did what it takes [to survive as an] immigrant in America, which is a lot, then you deserve to be here,” says Karla. "
Karla does not determine what US citizens deserve unless she is a US citizen.
Why doesn't the New York Times ever publish articles that outline the costs imposed on poor US citizens by illegal immigrants? There are many.
43
“If you crossed, if you made the journey, if people did what it takes [to survive as an] immigrant in America, which is a lot, then you deserve to be here,” says Karla.
Of course, no one is advocating open borders.
21
@Allen Rebchook
No one.perhaps, except Karla.
4
@Allen Rebchook these writers aren’t running for anything.
1
As a liberal Democratic who believes in lawful immigration and also as a former federal prosecutor who enforced the Nation's criminal immigration laws for a time (at the LA US Attorney's Office), I find it disquieting for the New York Times to publish a this and a string of articles regarding illegal immigration that reflect a lack of thinking and an evident political agenda.
This article suggests that US law enforcement - which is in its core a group of individuals whose mandate is to ensure that there is adherence to the laws passed by the people's representatives (the Congress) amounts to "ugly monsters" ....This is such self-serving terminology.
The idea that the laws of a country do not apply to "us" as advocated by any group because they see themselves as virtuous people who have had a hard time is a very dangerous one ...
73
“Years living as an undocumented immigrant taught me not to believe in the American dream.”
The American Dream presupposes achieving success within the rules and the rule of law. Adam Wheeler dreamed of graduating from Harvard, but he lied and cheated his way in and he lied and cheated while he was attending Harvard. For the same reason we cannot condone Mr. Wheeler’s behavior, we cannot condone Karla’s behavior.
The most sensible thing to do is to immediately expel all illegal aliens from our country. It just makes good sense.
31
Ecological, economic and social carrying capacity has been exceeded by our species here on spaceship Earth. We're an anthropogenic mass extinction event, and the biosphere is dying because of it.
All countries have immigration laws.
I tried to illegally emigrate to Canada and New Zealand.
They caught me and kicked me out, making it clear that if I ever returned through unauthorized channels, I'd be permanently banned.
Follow immigration laws and hope for the best.
Break immigration laws, and expect the worst.
And employers who employ illegal immigrants should all be in prison.
26
It’s exactly this entitled mindset that delivered Trump to the presidency, and I’m very angry about it. Everything I’ve cared about and worked toward my whole life, education, the environment, women’s rights, affordable healthcare, got flushed down the toilet due to this influx of entitled free-to-roam folks. I really don’t feel very charitable. At all.
43
@Just Curious, it was truly astonishing to watch the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton choose to sacrifice everything, every issue you mention, and more, by refusing to simply go back to the "Barbara Jordan" center on immigration. They chose de facto open borders and de facto unlimited immigration, both legal and illegal, as the hill to die on in 2016. Threw away the Supreme Court and so much more. Was it really worth it? To purge all the Barbara Jordan Democrats? Even worse, when Trump put out an olive branch, as part of immigration reform legislation that would have enacted several Jordan Commission recommendations, and Trump offered path to citizenship for all DACA recipients, plus an additional 1 million illegal aliens who never even bothered to register for DACA, the Democrats flatly refused him! Insane. For the first two years, Trump supported nearly everything from the Jordan Commission, like chain migration reform; elimination of diversity visa lottery; reduction of legal immigration from 1990's average of 750,000 per year back to 1980's average of 550,000 per year, etc., plus DACA legalization. And Democrats rejected this.
6
I read the article. But, what’s the point? Free, open borders? No borders? Unfettered ingress and egress? End of nation-states?
Guess that’s the point.
19
Immigration, if done right, can be very additive to our economy and our collective culture. What is so frustrating about illegal immigration is that advocates are so quick to gloss over the illegal part of it. Our immigration system needs a massive overhaul. We want immigrants to come to America. But we want them to do so legally. Just because you survive the "gauntlet" of an illegal crossing does not qualify you to be a citizen of our country. An open border policy is no immigration policy at all. Giving illegals living within our border amnesty is only rewarding someone for committing a crime.
34
Stop all immigration. Let me repeat, all immigration. The people flooding the southern border are not coming here to be Americans. They are coming here to leech off the welfare system and destroy the job market for every category that they can get into. Oh, Az, you say, that's not so. They only take the jobs that nobody else wants. Oh, I reply, how about the man, whom I personally know, that lost his masonry business because his competitors hired Spanish-only speakers who would work for sub minimum wages, and some of them off the books, while my friend tried to employ US citizens? Listen, the hordes streaming toward and mobbing the southern border will destabilize the country to the point that MS-13 will put up a presidential candidate sooner rather than later.
36
Beautiful work, unsettling and realistic. Should be viewed as the piece of art it is. Thank you for making it; I am wiser for it.
13
@Kaethe Art for art's sake.
1
The United States is a democratic republic set forth by the Constitution. The laws and their execution is the one of the factors, which makes america the most innovative, wealthiest countries in the world.
As designed by the constitution, the voters decide the fate of the republic with elections, not by social media. Similar to elections in Germany, UK (Brexit), Hungary, Australia, etc, the people of the US have decidedly voted against illegal immigration, with Trump winning the republican primary and general election largely on this issue.
When people enter the US, they are bound by the laws, not whether they feel they should be free to "roam". This is true of the law and by the electorate. The push by social media, especially NYT and WAPO, for open borders to label anyone who doesn't accept open borders as racist or cruel is a right under the first amendment. However, the US citizens get to decide and whether explicit or in the closet, the vast majority are against illegal immigration, as it as an affront to common sense and fairness.
39
WOW! This article sure has brought out the resentment that has driven much of today's political atmosphere. The Democratic Party does not now or ever has advocated open borders. Efforts to find bipartisan solutions to our shared immigration problem have been blocked at every turn. Seems this issue motivates a large voting block.
10
@Big Mike
But the actions of Democrats says they want open borders when they deny there is a border crisis and fight the administration's attempts to control illegal immigration.
25
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus The only immigration action I can verify that the Democrats have opposed, is the ill advised "Wall". They opted for a more comprehensive approach that included physical barriers, electronic surveillance and increased manpower.
6
@Big Mike "Efforts to find bipartisan solutions to our shared immigration problem have been blocked at every turn. Seems this issue motivates a large voting block."
Bingo. And thank God for that large voting block. I am part of it myself and so are most other Americans who care about respect for this country, its laws and the sensibilities of its citizens.
12
I feel the concept of The American Dream has been slowing but consistently eroding on all sides. Pick a reason or cause for there are plenty to choose from.
My husband's parents survived WWII. They and my husband (who was a small boy at the time) moved to Canada and stayed with relatives for ten years. They saved enough money and moved to Chicago. But like Canada, they had relatives in Chicago who sponsored them, lived with them, and found work for them. It took my husband and his parents 5 years before they became naturalized citizens.
That day was one of his most proud days. He LOVES this country, sometimes more than many folks I know who were born here. Citizenship is a very personal and serious topic for my husband. He understands both sides of the issue.
What I don't understand (and I apologize for being stupid) is why and how sponsorship for those who wish to come to this country doesn't seem to be applicable any longer. Perhaps I am in error, which I deeply apologize for.
13
The author’s contention that anyone who makes the arduous journey to get here has earned the right to stay in the US is certainly not based on any existing immigration laws. It is just the wishful thinking of one of the millions of people from less developed countries who would like to migrate away from a bad situation and settle in the US. There is no human right to migrate from less desirable sovereign countries to more desirable sovereign countries. It is amazing that even after a judge has determined asylum cases have insufficient merit, it has become politically incorrect to actually deport individuals and families. It seems everyone who gets here finds a way to stay. More judges won’t help the problem unless deportation orders are actually enforced.
46
I fear that those continually preaching acceptance for "undocumented" immigrants have clouded the difference between documented and undocumented. Just calling illegals "undocumented" gives them an aura of legitimacy. As a nation we have always given immigrants a path to living in the U.S., legally. We must never open the borders to those wishing to live here without their going through the immigration process. Certain political factions make us sound cruel because we won't open our borders to those wishing to circumvent the immigration process.
43
@JimVanM I will make several points. The first is that people like Donald Trump have been more than happy to exploit this labor pool for personal profit. The second is that the business community has actively fought efforts such as e-verify for a reason. Finally, the complaint comes from people whose family immigration process was basically falling off the boat when it got to port. Certain political factions were more than happy to allow the circumvention when it boosted their bottom lines.
4
@Andy Makar I fully agree with you. Both the left and the right find financial or political profit in not solving the current immigration impasse. This is very unfair to those wanting to come to our country, and is beneath the standards of this great nation.
6
@Andy Makar That is not true. My relatives weren't even allowed on the boat unless they had skills, no chronic illness and a means of supporting themselves.
2
I work in the employment based immigration field. a lot of the workers that I help bring to the US are degreed at the very least, and some have made significant contributions to science. I can also appreciate the millions of people who come here to work in low paying jobs, just to do what they can to be in America. I appreciate that. But in no way do I think people should free roam without documentation. I would have sided with that view a decade ago, but have since worked for an immigrant owned company that struggles with the rule of law. I would not want a world where cultures without the rule of law could pollute our rule of law culture any more than ours is already corrupted. There has to be a check on that. Because what makes our country great is the rule of law. The insurance of our particular freedoms is paramount.
26
Americans have grown weary of these trauma stories. Life is challenging for citizens too, you know.
60
I believe Americans deserve a stronger safety net. But the sense of entitlement from some groups on the left astounds me. No one has a right to an iPhone, a TV, or a car. Sometimes, you have to deal with a long commute or work two jobs. The need for welfare has to be adequately demonstrated. And you can’t live wherever you want, whether you’re a U.S. resident who wants to stay in your rural hometown where all the work has dried or a foreigner.
30
@Mssr. Pleure
I hope the view on the need for welfare applies to the biggest welfare queens, corporations.
9
I am so surprised to see that so many feel as I do (so far). I welcome legal immigrants. But there is a problem in letting people self-immigrate.
First, we are a nation of laws, and this is illegal. Second, we have a huge waiting list of people, often in terrible circumstances, wanting to come to this country. Why should others get to cut in line? We want to have control over our population, and have balanced immigration so we do not just recreate the home country circumstances.
Right now my sister, who lives in Las Vegas, says they have a terrible and often lawless situation with immigrants. It has hit her and her mother-in-law’s neighborhoods and made them dangerous.
There is no question in my mind that legal immigration is a huge benefit for our country. I have helped sponsor immigrants from Africa - and it was a joy. But I am anti-illegal immigration, and think we should do whatever we can to deter it. (I wouldn’t mind our involvement in making our neighbor’s countries better and safer places to live.)
56
@Karen let me say - “whatever we can to deter it” is a bad choice of words in the age of Trump. Separating parents from their children was evil and wrong. With compassion and firmness, we should do whatever we can to deter illegal immigration.
3
I'm the (very proud) child of documented immigrants from South America & the Caribbean. I identify as Latina. My parents raised me in an all-Jewish neighborhood in Queens, NY, but made it a point (& habit) to venture, almost weekly, to the Latino- & Caribbean-populated barrios in Queens &, occasionally, Brooklyn & Manhattan. The reason? Almost always to eat our ethnic cuisines & to interact with people who not only spoke our language but physically resembled us. These experiences--coupled with my parents' pride of their heritage, their insistence their children (my sister & I) retain our native tongue, & their annual vacations to the Caribbean & South America--have instilled in me a great pride for "my people"--those with whom I most identify; those who speak the same language I speak; those who understand traditions that my American-Jewish peers never could. I also appreciate & respect all immigrants--from whatever region of the world & however they reached America. In almost all situations, they, like my parents, made the incredibly painful & difficult choice to leave their homes with the hope of doing better for themselves & their children. With that said, this article reflects an extremist & unrealistic view of undocumented immigration and the role of borders in the world. Borders protect finite resources, establish distributive methods for inhabitants, & provide necessary law & order. It is idealistic, at best, & ignorant, at worst, to argue for a border-less world.
41
People applying for green cards who have a mental illness must report that fact and if they have a history of harmful conduct they may not be admitted. If an undocumented immigrant with a mental illness bypasses the application process that is clearly unfair. The admission process for the undocumented, at the very least, should be as stringent as that for those willing to jump through all the hoops.
24
In the age of trump, I desire to become a Danish citizen. Will you help me become a Danish citizen if I make a Homeric journey to Denmark?
Nice idea but not practical.
53
Here is the crux of the problem - citizenship. It is either something of great value that confers significant rights and benefits and therefore limited to a relatively small number or it confers nothing of value and is available to all. Developed countries have the former situation chaotic developing countries have the latter. Demand for developed country citizenship is thus high but given limited resources its value can only be sustained if it itself is limited.
We have seen what happens if everyone crowds into a lifeboat. These are not the actions of kind gentle people they're the actions of takers.
24
You're saying that if an immigrant manages to make it to these shores, however she travels, whatever he does to get here, then the immigrant has already earned the right to be considered American.
Well, thank you for your honesty.
I honestly disagree.
You don't seem to understand, or maybe you feel it's a relic of European sensibility, the centuries-long formulation through cultural development and political and economic experience that forms any nation-state.
But there's a reason San Diego county doesn't look like Tijuana. Cultural and politico-economic factors are the sole difference, but what a difference! Americans are no smarter than Mexicans, and Southern California doesn't differ materially in terms of resources from Northern Mexico.
But we've managed to take what was best from our colonial masters and discard the rest, while Mexico still can't shake its conquistadorian past. The fraud and corruption and violence is replicated throughout Central and South America.
But we simply cannot absorb each and every member of that region that wants to come here and make a home. We have to help them reform their own societies, acknowledging we've been part of the problem.
Even so, why would the American dream be open to those who don't even follow the rules to coming to this country? Why should we honor the illegal entrant who manages to stay here in the shadows more than the thousands and thousands of visa applicants throughout Latin America who play by the rules?
73
Karla seems like a smart intelligent woman, who has endured a lot of adversity to achieve her goals and dreams. However, whether she likes it or not, she DOES NOT DESERVE to be in the United States just because she wishes to be. The United States is a nation based on the rule of law, and Karla is a violator of those applicable laws, and therefore exposed to criminal prosecution. It doesn't matter where she came from or why. If she wants to be an honest being and do the right thing, she should declare herself to ICE and be prepared for the consequences, including deportation. Otherwise, she is living a lie. It is not her prerogative to unilaterally disavow US law for her own benefit. If Karla were to seek legal immigration in the US, then she would enjoy the protection, benefits, and responsibilities that America provides to those deserving citizens and legal immigrants who comply with US law.
67
@Jeremiah Johnson
Have all of the illegal immigrants in this film been identified by the authorities and deported, if necessary? If Nelson Pinos had made the effort to become legal he would not have to impose on the generous hospitality of a New Haven church for 500 days to hide from a deportation order. If he made the effort to become legal in the nation he called home he would pay into the Social Security and Medicare systems. His kids could get Social security benefits and he would have health insurance in his old age. Even if these illegal immigrants come to this country to work and pay taxes they still impose upon the resources and generosity of Americans sooner or later. When these people number in the millions it becomes systematic exploitation by opportunistic grifters.
22
@Jeremiah Johnson
How did you _deserve_ to be here? What did you do? Or was it just the dumb luck of being born here instead of across the border? I bet it was. In a meritocracy, nothing should be left to dumb luck. If citizenship and prosperity has to be "deserved", all the rules, exclusions, and bureaucracy must be applied to everyone, including those born here, whose parents were also born here. Until then, citizenship is simply arbitrary. Maybe that's why the current system is on its way out, even though most people can only think a few years (an election cycle) ahead and don't see the long-term trend of that happening.
1
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
What about the grifter in chief that had no problems maintaining undocumented workers on his payroll for years?
4
They are going to be disappointed as their sense of entitlement and self pity exceeds reality by about a factor of 10.
What they want hasn't happen anyplace on earth in decades. Citizenship based on desire? Can't do that in either Ecuador or Mexico, what makes them think they have that right here?
We are a country of citizens and laws. You can roam all you want at home. But breaking the law for long periods of time here doesn't mean you're not breaking the law.
You can tell they've been here for a long time, though, as just like American kids of the same generation they seem to spend lots of time feeling sorry for themselves, documenting it and then being astonished that most find it self-indulgent and boring.
53
My mother-in-law is a Non-Citizen with a heavy accent who left the country for a few weeks once and forgot to take her passport and green card with her. Upon her return to a DC airport she “endured” a 5-minute lecture from a US official about the importance of carrying her documents before she was allowed back into the country with no follow-up required.
My Aunt was born in Mexico and speaks broken English. She was detained for eight hours coming back into the US in spite of having her green card and marriage certificate and passport on hand. My white Uncle had to show up at the border with a lawyer in tow before my Aunt was allowed back in and they were still required to do a follow up with an official later to confirm the authenticity and validity of my Aunt’s paperwork.
I guess my mother-in-law is lucky she was born blond, blue-eyed and white in Northern Europe and not brown from the southern part of North America like my Aunt.
12
@Jason
"My mother-in-law is a Non-Citizen with a heavy accent who left the country for a few weeks once and forgot to take her passport and green card with her."
I don't believe this story. Without a passport she would not have been able to leave or enter another country.
49
@Jason
I am a white immigrant and can confirm I've received better and speedier treatment in "secondary inspection" when entering the US compared to black and brown people who were also there like me.
5
Basically immigration control is a means to control culture and political control. To a lesser extent, at lest in the US, access to resources. The US has A LOT of resources comparatively. The folks worrying about resources should focus on laying off the booze/pills and focusing on education and innovation.
'
So to focus on culture - we don't want what is going on south of the US border. The land just south of Texas is not materially worse - the issue is a culture that we would prefer stay down there - ie gang violence, marginal employment, etc. So, we have a border. Should we let the entire central and South American folks flood the US, I would suggest most Americans would not like that cultural shift en mass...
25
Karla, your gift is in your beautiful ability to tell a story. Without knowing it, you are living the American dream of freedom of expression though ties bind you in other ways where you and others are not free. Use what you have because what is right in the world and in this country is a living process of action and struggle and it must always be fought for though sacrifice is woven through that struggle. I wish it were easier.
10
@Therese "Use what you have because what is right in the world and in this country is a living process of action and struggle and it must always be fought for though sacrifice is woven through that struggle. "
There is no reason why Karla can't apply her skills in her country of origin. They need her far more than we do.
50
My father-in-law worked construction on nearly every Las Vegas casino project during the boom that began in the 1980s with the Mirage Hotel, and he kept at it until his untimely death in the early 2000s. He was an undocumented immigrant.
He had entered the country legally, but overstayed his visa. He never bothered applying for a green card – he wasn’t the sort of guy who was concerned about such things. I know for a fact that he never had a driver’s license --- he somehow talked his way out of several traffic stops.
So far as I can tell, he never had the slightest trouble fitting into the community. He owned a home, raised a family, and had a large social circle – all despite a heavy accent that immediately identified him as a foreigner.
I often wonder how his life (and mine) would have been different if he had been born in, say, El Salvador, rather than County Cork, Ireland.
28
A friend recently got a call from a friend who she was expecting to pick up from the airport after his flight arrived from Ireland.
Instead, he called her to tell her that the Customs officer at the airport here in the U.S. decided that, because he had $1500 on him, he was likely going to overstay a tourist visa and they refused him entry to the U.S. based on that.
Maybe times have changed since the 1980's, huh?
9
@Really
Considering that when you apply for a visa you have to prove you have enough money to support yourself for the duration of your stay in the US, this is either not true, or the Customs officer was incompetent.
7
@UA - The person I referred to in my comment was on a trip to visit the U.S. and they were refused entry by the Customs official because the official apparently believed that there was a good chance they would overstay the (tourist) visa they had applied to. It is certainly possible that the Customs officer was incompetent.
The comment I responded to indicates that white Europeans like his father are not subject to immigration laws, unlike Central Americans, which is untrue.
3
We can argue all day the morality, or not, of open borders -- of uncritically welcoming whoever wants to come by whatever means necessary, documented or not. But the political reality is this. Where ever foreigners are allowed to flood into a country, that country's domestic politics veer sharply to the right. Just ask the Germans where even Angela Merkel, on her way out of power, has admitted she made a mistake to allow so many refugees in so quickly. And one of the reasons for this sudden political empowerment of the far right is because people at or near the bottom of the economic ladder -- who vote -- don't appreciate suddenly having to compete with a legion of workers who are ready to undercut them -- to work for less. This is something liberals, especially economically secure liberals, often don't appreciate. See, e.g., Trump's 2016 victory.
121
@Barry Schreibman they're competing with an even larger legion of workers overseas, as well as machines. I have my doubts that walls and tarrifs are ultimately going to help them. But "illegals" are a convenient scapegoat anyway.
5
The United States is a sovereign nation that does not wish to dissolve its borders or be destroyed by unsustainable population growth. It's time for the residents of other countries to get their own dreams.
136
I feel like when it comes to immigration, the two sides talk right past each other when there is a lot of middle ground to negotiate and come up with solutions that have benefits for both sides.
Keep in mind I come at this as a former refugee who has now been a naturalized US citizen for 4 decades. Rather than rely on emotional arguments, why can't both sides just look at the very practical issues.
1. Progressive and liberals (which I consider myself) need to stop appealing solely to people's bleed-heart emotions. "Abolish ICE" doesn't solve anything and is a ridiculous slogan. "Reform ICE" is fine but no first-world country exists that just lets anyone into their borders permanently, without some sort of vetting/ process.
2. Conservatives need to stop demonizing illegal immigrants and recognize they play an important role in the economy/ society. They pick your veggies, cook/ serve your meals, take care of your children/ elders, tend your gardens and construct your houses.. Every American is helped by an illegal immigrant in some way whether they know it or not. So things are not as easy as building a wall, deporting all illegals, etc. If we did that, watch the cost and availability of services and products soar.
I have yet a find a candidate who is able to fit my middle ground: a) construct a guest worker program that allows legal immigration and filling our our country's needs, b) abolish birthright citizenship when no parent has legal status, and c) pass DACA.
77
@ms
I'd go further by abolishing birthright citizenship altogether--yes, even for those whose parents are US citizens. If one has to _deserve_ to be here, let all of them endeavor to deserve it. Or are some people more equal than others? Do we live in Orwell's Animal Farm? Do we want to?
@ms You pretty much hit the nail on the head.
4
@UA The whole point of citizenship anywhere on the planet is that you get it simply by being born where you were-the same way that some people are born to rich parents, or dumb parents, or musically skilled parents or millions of other kinds of parents. You can't test people for being born into a family or a nation. You can and should however vet people who are seeking to join a family or a nation.
Trying to guilt trip people into thinking that they shouldn't be citizens of the country in which they were born is a fool's errand.
And considering that birthright citizenship for US citizens is guaranteed by the 14th amendment, good luck getting 3/4 of the states and 2/3 of both chambers of Congress to change it.
6
"I intuited that using a nontraditional documentary approach might make Karla more comfortable, as she can be cagey with interlopers."
A lot of Americans are cagey with interlopers these days. That's why they rolled the dice on Donald Trump in 2016.
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Remember the Golden Rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If I ever felt the necessity to flee my country for another I would recognize that I would be a guest in that country and do what ever was necessary to follow their laws and customs and learn the language as best that I was able. I would not care to be dependent on a nation's social welfare programs. Indeed, many countries make sure to tell prospective immigrants that they are expected to have their own resources to live in their new nation home and not depend on welfare benefits.
I don't understand this attitude of entitlement so many people from south of our border possess. They are in their home country and are thinking that the USA owes them "the American Dream" of a nice house, good education for their kids and a secure job with benefits. All they have to do is show up, get across the border and demand their "rights"!! The arrogance of this mindset is astounding. We are being hustled by schemers looking to get in on a good deal.
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@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus this generalization is just not true. While their are some undocumented immigrants that do obtain social benefits, the vast majority are working individuals seeking self sufficiency and autonomy. Undocumented immigrants pay $12 billion of taxes every single year (look it up!), and most will never be able to qualify for social security benefits (they don't have a SSN they have a Tax ID) because they are undocumented.
Moreover, the recnt wave of Central American immigrants crossing the border, are fleeing their country for fear of their lives and violent crisis that is occuring there. Many choose not to leave their country but do so due to the violence that is happening.
I agree that following laws, customs, and language should all be prerequisites for anyone coming to a country that is providing shelter, but to categorize 'them' (the majority of undocumented immigrants) with a sense of entitlement is just not true or corroborated with any facts.
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@Sean
I can see you have been seized by the hustle. Of course there are exceptions to a generalization but from prolific media reports and even in this essay by a filmmaker one can see this sense of entitlement "demanding" their American dream. The headline of the article alone is a banner of indignation at being "unjustly" denied the American dream.
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@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus. I am stating that your generlization are exceptions and not the majority of individuals.
Oddly enough, I did not see where they are 'demanding' their American Dream. The man seeks to provide for his family and live with his family. There is no talk of the "American Dream" outside of the title and subtitle. Not in the article and not in the video.
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Foreigners in this country should be documented, whether visiting or coming to stay, so we know who is entitled to what from our government. There are limited resources in America, because of that we have to prioritize American citizens before foreigners in all services. This is because it is on the backs of our citizens that these services are made possible, their tax dollars, their labor. If they are not the chief recipients of the benefits of their money and labor they have no incentive to continue supporting it. Trust in government erodes, willingness to participate in the greater American society erodes. Nobody likes to be exploited to the benefit of others.
And nobody likes it when foreigners act entitled to the hard work and tax dollars of American citizens.
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"This is because it is on the backs of our citizens that these services are made possible, their tax dollars, their labor."
I've literally never met an undocumented immigrant that is not employed. The majority of them work several jobs. This of course specifically applies to my anecdotal experience living in New York City. I can tell you right now, that if undocumented immigrants all stopped working on a single day, the restaurants, delivery man, nannies, housekeepers, and service industry in general would suffer in NYC. More over, there are 8MM undocumented immigrants working in the U.S. many of whom pay taxes - either voluntarily via a Tax ID number or involuntarily - with businesses that employ them witholding taxes using someone else's SSN or businesses willing employing undocumented immigrants and masking their identity by reporting taxes. Our current president was known for employing many of these people in construction jobs and maid services in his hotels (look it up).
Discounting the tax contribution, work, and role that undocumented workers play in our society limits how intertwined U.S. citizen like you and I are connected to them.
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@Joel
QUOTING: "There are limited resources in America ... it is on the backs of our citizens that these services are made possible, their tax dollars, their labor."
You paint a picture of Americans struggling to make ends meet. There is no reason for average, hard-working Americans to be struggling today.
First, rather than pointing the finger at "foreigners," remember that we are ALL "foreigners," we ALL come from somewhere else, and we ALL contribute to the wealth of this nation.
But then, take a look at the way cash & profits are unfairly funneled to the rich nowadays in the U.S.. During the 1950s & 60s, the middle class did not struggle like today, and yet was economically much more secure. Look at the jaw-dropping difference between CEO and worker pay today.
The shift of resources did not happen because of immigrants. Immigrants are being scapegoated to take our eyes off who is taking the lion's share of our GNP.
@Joel, also go back and review the particulars of the latest clumsy revision to IRS tax rules, that gave away trillions of dollars to corporations & the ultra-wealthy, at the expense of 99% of the American populace. (Of course, Congress cleverly postponed the implementation of middle/lower class tax hikes until after the 2020 election.)
If America now struggles to make ends meet, if this nation of immigrants hasn't the resources to welcome new immigrants into its workforce, let's look squarely at where the problem lies. "Foreigners" are NOT the problem.
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@Joel
Actually, when people who are undocumented come here and work they have none of the protections of citizens. They pay SS taxes, which you benefit from, and they get nothing for them. They usually make a slave's wage, which enables you to buy produce or meat at reduced prices. Most of them are here for a job, to make and then return home. They are people.
In fact, you benefit from their labor more than they benefit from yours. So no need for sanctimonious preaching. You don't have the high ground.
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When the explorers set out, when the original immigrants set out for America they remained citizens of the countries they came from until the American Revolution led to the creation of the United States when the Constitution recognized US citizenship. For decades after that there were still large parts of what became the United States that was still territory that was claimed by multiple countries so if you lived there you were still a citizen from where you came. It was a different time. Now it is an established country with its laws and rules as is the case with the vast majority of countries. With established borders comes control of how people may come into a country. Trying to say that the concepts in place when the country was still becoming a country just does not work for today. I struggle to understand why people want to ignore the law just because they disagree with it or think what was allowed 200 years ago should still be allowed. Times change, places change, laws come into existence and change.
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I'm curious if you asked 1,000 recent entrants to our nation, would they all agree that the American dream is not worth it?
Or would you get 750 of these folks to say the American dream is alive and well and 250 would say the dream is not.
You have to wonder whose experience is more likely in this situation? Not sure I have the answer but I'm pretty sure the poll would not be all positive or all negative....
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"I believe all sentient beings should be free to roam. It’s our birthright. "
That's definitely how I like to think about it when faced with long lines and unwanted delays at JFK passport control (or even security checks for domestic flights).
Unfortunately, my attempts to 'be free to roam' to the front of those lines (ideally, around them altogether!) haven't always been met with magnanimity and acceptance from TSA Agents or my fellow passengers.
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Roam all you want, just don't settle in sovereign nations without their permission. That's a crime.
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@Kate Well said, Kate. Thank you. I can add little except to say that, for people who can work and add to a society, admission to the US should be straightforward. The illegals who are a financial and emotional drain are the ones to be denied access.
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@Kate I will add another piece of news. President Trump has unveiled new immigration guidelines that gives academic and job accomplishment a larger portion of people who wish to enter the US legally. This, to me, is a large step forward. We need people here who can carry their own weight.
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Just a simple unloaded, unbiased question for the writer and her cohort: would their experiences and conclusions be different had they pursued legal immigration?
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@Kathy B
I'll answer this as I pursued legal immigration. Because I'm a white European not subject to various quotas, my experience was indeed different - starting with the fact that I _had_ a realistic path to legal immigration. Because I recognize that many, if not most people who immigrate illegally do not have that path, my conclusions agree with this article.
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@UA American citizenship is not a worldwide civil right. It is up to Americans to decide who gets to live here not the rest of the world.
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The premise of this article, "I believe all sentient beings should be free to roam. It’s our birthright. " is incorrect.
It is not anyone's birthright to roam freely.
Why don't you try to "freely roam" into your neighbor's living room and see what happens.
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Decades living as an American Citizen taught met not to believe in "the American Dream." It's a load of nonsense. Always was, always will be.
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@mrfreeze6
Then why not leave and pursue a better country. As Milton Friedman, the famed Economist, once said, America has no fences keeping the people in. America is not perfect, but it has the best opportunities.
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@mark
"America has no fences keeping the people in."
Very true. Unfortunately, most other countries have fences to keep us out.
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@mark, There's always a whiff of condescension in comments like yours. I currently live in Europe. If you weigh the actual "benefits" of my European passport against all the supposed benefits of having a U.S. passport, I know clearly which one has more value. So, I did exactly what you suggested and am happier here than in the U.S.. The american dream is nothing more than a catch-phrase to convince people they can someday be rich (as if that's the only goal in life). There are a lot of other countries in the world with rich cultures, histories and traditions. There are other "dreams," not just those embraced by americans.
2
I want to describe what my grandmother went through during the Armenian Genocide. She fled Urmia, Iran, alone, on foot, to the relative safety of a British refugee camp some several hundred miles away. I'm in my sixties, and to this day, I have absolutely no concept of how she managed to do this, but she did.
She had no other choice, to survive. The Turks had killed her husband, and her first two children, just before that. She was a very young, single woman, alone, making her way in some of the most unforgiving land on the planet. And yet she did this.
Now, many thousands of people have attempted to cross a similarly unforgiving desert, through Mexico and into southwestern United States. The land itself is brutal. The temperatures in the summer will kill a person quite quickly, if they don't have water.
So why do thousands of people continue to cross our southern border? Of course, it's "just" economic opportunity for some of them. But many of them are fleeing their homelands because to survive, they have absolutely no choice. Whether it be gang violence or threats by local militia, they understand that to stay would be suicide.
People do not leave their countries for a job that pays a few dollars more an hour. People do not walk through thousands of miles of desert on a whim. They must have faced desperate circumstances.
I know our nation cannot take in everyone who wants to enter. But think, again, about the most vulnerable among us.
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@DB Cooper They are indeed looking for the country with the most financial benefits for them; otherwise they would claim asylum in the first country they cross, not continue until they get to the richest country.
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DB,
My Assyrian family ALSO fled Urmia during the genocide. Their town was destroyed; my great, great grandfather—a priest—was executed; and they took refuge in Iraq until they were able to secure legal passage to America.
What migrants from Latin America face is not even close to what my family had to go through. Urban violence is not the same as the war in Syria or systematic persecution of “undesirable” groups. Even if they WERE looking for safety, those migrants would stop in Mexico not continue to the U.S. border. That alone should tell you all you need to know.
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@DB Cooper Bless your grandmother and thank you for sharing her story!
QUOTING: "People do not walk through thousands of miles of desert on a whim. They must have faced desperate circumstances.
"I know our nation cannot take in everyone who wants to enter. But think, again, about the most vulnerable among us."
Such simple, commonsense observations; and, yet, how rare in this forum. Wow. What's happening to the good soul of America? Someone should paint a tear on the face of Lady Liberty in our harbor!!
@DB Cooper You have injected a large dose of HUMANITY into a discussion fraught with economic anxiety, that is finding a convenient scapegoat in a faceless, nameless, inhuman scary blob labelled "immigrants" and "foreigners."
I am quite surprised to see how many otherwise intelligent readers of the NYTs have allowed themselves to be inspired by the pernicious rhetoric of xenophobia and hate of Trump and his minions.
This is not a discussion of law and order; the underpinning of much of the commentary here is economic anxiety, a terrible sense of scarcity, a fear that to have to share one iota of one's resources will cause devastating loss. And immigration has nothing to do with that fraudulent fear.
It appears the American citizenry is allowing its elected representatives to foment class warfare. So long as We The People train our anger on immigrants, or on reds or blues, or Muslims or Jews, we won't take a hard look at the real source of trouble.
Shameful.
4
No, if you came here illegally and you evade deportation orders, then you are a criminal.
Are we losing our understanding of right and wrong.
Sometimes, I am thankful that we have some leaders who uphold the law.
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@JAG its too bad those same leaders cherry pick the laws they want upheld...
4
Before we all tear up, here's an article from CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/10/politics/trump-family-deportation-migrants/index.html
"From September 24, 2018, through April 26, 2019, more than 40,000 cases were marked as so-called "family-unit" cases, a DHS designation, according to Executive Office for Immigration Review data. Roughly 8,000 cases have been marked completed. Of those, 7,724 cases ended with removal orders, 6,764 of which were ordered removed because they did not attend their immigration hearings."
So to summarize:
85% of the people ordered to appear did not.
97% of the cases that get to court are ruled invalid for asylum.
Statistically significant and tells you a lot about the situation at our border.
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@MS statistically significant, yes, but there is no causal inference here. 85% of those people did not appear for their hearing, but we don't know why. We only know that they make up the bulk of the rejections. Did they know about the hearing? Did they have a way to be contacted about it? Were they able to get to the hearing? Or did they blow it off? There is a distribution there as well that tells us more interesting information...
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Knowing that ICE could apprehend you at the courthouse, would you show up?
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@Joan Pachner that's a lie. ICE won't detain anyone before the hearing. That's the point of the hearing.
1
She can believe anything she wants but that won’t make her a citizen. You know, Karla, there are legal ways to accomplish what you want. Until then, go home and get in line.
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What about my grandparents whose only way to come over was by ship? They could not cross a desert in a 'homeric way', but had to take a boot and declare their arrival at Ellis Island (with the fear of being sent back home because they were sick). They too suffered trauma; there is no competition for how traumatic the experience was and what someone is now owed base on that. Many, many people who emigrated to this country legally suffered as well. My grandmother's family ended up being trapped behind the iron curtain after WWII and we could not visit them for close to 60 years.
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@Alison My grandmother’s family was exterminated by the nazis.
@J.Jones Om Shanti Om
The thing that separates America from the country that this author fled is that it is a nation of laws, one that you are not allowed to reside in without legal permission. The author can advocate to change this, to make it more like the place she left, but then she will find that it might not be worth staying in.
But no matter, she can just "roam" over to the next place. And destroy that place too. Open borders advocates are basically locusts, advocating for their right to move through territory and take what they want, while never putting down roots or investing in improving the community.
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@KM You were right on in the first paragraph. What happened in the second? It is not the immigrants legal or otherwise destroying the nation - it is the people that we have elected as stewards of this country that are incapable of acting. Those laws you refer to require actual enacting to do anything... and then enforcing the ones we _do_ have. But our elected officials do nothing.
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Nice to know that not only can beggars be choosers, but they should also have the right to be choosers. If the "right" is not on the books, just manufacture it.
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@SR I've got mine, so the heck with the rest of you, right? That's the spirit!
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@John Smith
Anyone who lives in Cupertino is almost certainly not in danger of losing their job or their quality of life to a flood of cheap, easily exploitable labor.
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"If you crossed, if you made the journey, if people did what it takes [to survive as an] immigrant in America, which is a lot, then you deserve to be here,"
What about people who are elderly and/or disabled and therefore unable to cross or make an arduous journey? They don't deserve to be here? Why are the young and fit more deserving than the old and sick?
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@Philip Greenspun And what of those in Africa who try to come here but could not make the journey and whose lives are far more precarious than some from Central America. Shouldn't we deny those Central American's entrance until all those Africans are settled here?
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Just because you think something doesn’t make it right . People come to the US because it’s easier than trying for asylum in other European countries . Fly to Sweden and try to claim asylum . It won’t work
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@Dennis - Dennis, you have not done your homework, so I will help you out.
I am concerned with asylum seekers from Somalia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Afghanistan.
In 2015 and 2016 Sweden took more in this group per 100,000 Swedish citizens, than any other so-called advanced country.
It was not easier for these people to get asylum in the USA than in Sweden. And, once Donald Trump banned selected Muslims - not including his Saudi Muslim friends of course, legitimate asylum seekers cannot enter the USA.
Apparently 132 Times readers are as ill informed as you are. Clearly, the Times needs to educate its readers.
Only-InSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
5
Ok. All sentient beings should be free to roam. Fair enough. But does that also mean they should be free to avail themselves of the benefits of a welfare state of their choosing?
Asking for a friend.
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@Skippy
If they pay taxes, yes - because their taxes pay for the welfare state just like citizens' taxes do. I'm saying this as someone who paid equal taxes to citizens for 20 years without having equal rights to them. The undocumented also pay equal sales taxes, and payroll taxes (even if they work with fake SSNs). Government statisticians actually keep track of this and have found undocumented immigrants actually pay more into the system than they take out, because they can't claim most benefits. So yeah, the welfare state is financed by them too, in addition to legal immigrants and citizens. It would be fair if they could benefit from what they pay into. But politics has never been about fairness.
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@Skippy
Are undocumented immigrants eligible for federal public benefit programs?
Generally no. Undocumented immigrants, including DACA holders, are ineligible to receive most federal public benefits, including means-tested benefits such as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, sometimes referred to as food stamps), regular Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for health care subsidies under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and are prohibited from purchasing unsubsidized health coverage on ACA exchanges.
Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for a handful of benefits that are deemed necessary to protect life or guarantee safety in dire situations, such as emergency Medicaid, access to treatment in hospital emergency rooms, or access to healthcare and nutrition programs under the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC).
https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-benefits/
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@Skippy
Yep, it does. The ruling class takes nearly all for itself, and leaves scraps for the masses to fight over. I reject wholeheartedly the notion that the undocumented immigrant is a greater threat to my and my fellow workers' livelihood than those at the top who profit and sit fat on both of our backs. I will shout it from the mountaintops for as long as I live: Open the borders, and take in all who wish to live, work, and contribute here. And all this is besides the fact that the majority of undocumented immigrants are fleeing poor and hostile conditions that WE created around the world. Enough.
11
No sympathy here. My parents and grandparents waited for years in a displaced persons camp to get here legally. In contrast, your first act upon getting here is a criminal one, to sneak in instead of gaining legal entrance. As for it being a birthright to roam where you want: a) interesting that roamers come to more prosperous countries and not less prosperous ones, and b) no one has rights without limits---when you impinge on my life, your rights end and mine begin.
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@fireweed
"I suffered, so everyone else should suffer too." -- I see this attitude often from people like you, and I marvel that your family's arduous experience hasn't taught you better, starting with compassion.
I take the opposite view. I waited 20 years to become a citizen in the US, and I wouldn't begrudge amnesty to anyone who is already here and crossed the border illegally. i want to leave this type of suffering behind, and to make it possible for others to do the same.
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@UA
UA, while very generous of you, you immigrated here and so while you may be inclined to be “virtuous”, you can’t change the rules of a country you immigrated to.
And because people don’t subscribe to your particular view on immigration doesn’t make them less virtuous. You can’t judge something like that. No one can. So leave the virtue signaling elsewhere when people protest what are impractical solutions which are potentially harmful to US citizens and legal residents.
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@UA Compassion does not consist of open borders and our laws dictated by people who break them. The author could leave her self imposed suffering and go back to Ecuador. Amnesty for illegals will give Trump another term.
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"I believe all sentient beings should be free to roam. It’s our birthright. "
In a perfect world, I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.
Think very long and hard before you bring a child into this imperfect world.
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