NPR ran an interesting report a few years ago. It didn't involve gun storage, although one can easily deduce the point of this New York Times story revealing a good deterrent to the risk of children reduced, with guns and ammunition properly stored.
Doctors interviewed on NPR performed an extensive closed confidential study, that [most] Americans that purchase guns are shown to test as slightly or moderately mentally ill. If you doubt this statistic, keep in mind that most mass shootings and suicides, classified later in forensics that the perpetrator was mentally unstable.
I don't own guns, as I would have no use for them. My hometown of Portland Oregon is probably one of the safest places in the nation as far as major metropolitan cities go. As a retiree, I invest all of my free time to providing public sidewalk astronomy, to educate and entertain the public, and young students. My awarded and published artwork has been featured in NASA websites, as I've also spoke of this Art and Science melding subject many times on NPR's Talk of the Nation, during its last several years of national broadcast.
Another NPR report revealed after a mass shooting in Las Vegas, as they interviewed a gun training specialist near suburban Portland Oregon, he pointed out that most people that carry a concealed weapon are not trained to use it, as police are. It was reported that most people just ran scared even though many may have been carrying a loaded weapon, to take down the perpetrator.
1
I actually stopped carrying a firearm because I now have grandchildren. I’ll accept the risk of being caught “unprepared” without my CCW over the more likely lifetime of anguish I’d be feeling if my grandson ever hurt himself because I was careless.
7
The need to safely store a gun negates the argument as a gun for protection. I doubt the home invader is going to patiently wait while you retrieve your weapon. In my 63 years, having lived in plenty of sketchy areas, I have never had any need to own a gun, although now that I live in a nice area with two obvious gun nuts on either side of me I’m considering a shotgun to protect myself from my gun nut neighbors.
2
As a general pediatrician for many years three of my most important questions at well-child care were:
Do you have guns in the home?
If so, do you store them locked and unloaded?
If so, do you store the gun and the ammunition in separate areas?
I rarely offended any family with this set of questions, and if any parents inquired about this line of questioning, usually they understood after a brief and simple explanation as to why this issue is so important to the well-being of a child (or any person for that matter). One child injured by a gun is too many.
4
The gun owner's perception of needing ready access does not preclude safe storage as there are lock boxes that can be encoded with the owner's fingerprints. Granted some people live in very dangerous neighborhoods and are subject to violent crime, but take alcohol and drugs out of the picture and the dust begins to settle. In addition, a very effective means of discouraging children from putting there hands on lethal weapons is to avoid disclosing their presence. If a child doesn't know a gun exists, it's unlikely he'll find it's hiding place. Also, assuming firearms represent an important part of a family's lifestyle, using a locking device can become meaningless if a child knows how to locate the key or enter the combination.
1
Well, no kidding. The article should have mentioned the AMA recently recommending doctors just ASK their patients if they even own a gun as part of a yearly physical. The NRA response to this suggestion by the AMA? "Stay in your own lane." Incredible, no?
5
If owners of guns were simply required to have liability insurance, safe storage would happen on its own. The price of the storage safe or lock would be much lower than the increment in insurance premiums for people who couldn’t demonstrate safe storage.
8
"Guns kiled more than 14,000 children.." This data is ridiculous and Mr. Carroll knows it. I checked the CDC site which he provides the link to and no matter how you adjust the filters the number of gun-related deaths in 2017 the number is nowhere close to 14,000 (check it yourselves.) Even if you set the filter from ages 1 to 18 it calculates 2,583 for all gun related deaths, not just suicide. Only if the filter is set to ages 1-31 do we get 14,000. Does he consider 19-31 year old to be "children" as well? Yet if we use the same criteria and apply it to vehicles, 3,007 people between 1-18 have died. So why is the statement "cars killed 3,007 children" not here as well? Why is that data ignored if the overall point is preventing child deaths? Most of all why is he wildly distorting the data?
3
one of us is doing it incorrectly then...
Age Group. Number of Deaths.
0 to 4. 3,381
5 to 9. 898
10 to 14. 1,592
15 to 19. 8,448
5
@djyrn I'm not picking apples to oranges but I put in 2017, Intent of death - all intents, mechanism of death - firearm, male and female, 0-4, and it comes up with 93. 5-9, 99. 10-14, 399. 15-19, 2912. Try those exact variables and see what you get.
1
@peversma The article says "in the last decade" NOT 2017!!! The article is about guns. Significantly different methods would be used to alter vehicle deaths (notably vehicles pretty much uniformly require a key to operate = to car locks). Read the article before you start incorrectly comparing statistics for one year to a statement about ten years!
2
The difference between locked or loaded is significant, and the statement that "An additional 50 percent stored them either loaded or unlocked" is not useful.
We keep a loaded gun in a gun safe, with a 4-digit code that is unbreakable. There is a world of difference between our loaded gun and an unlocked unloaded one.
Encourage the use of gun safes. They are foolproof. And would reduce the deaths astronomically. And that would be a solution that liberals and 2nd Amendment nuts would agree on.
3
@Dan There is some truth here, but on the other hand, it isn't a question of "fool proof": the article is about children in the household, and keeping a secret from a kid is possible, but maybe not as easy as you might think. People are often amazed at things their kids know, that are supposedly secret. As a general rule, probably the more levels of difficulty that are introduced, the better. (And of course, there is the other discussion, about why someone would feel that rapid access to a loaded gun is important. People who think this is making them safer are usually wrong. But of course, each one is convinced that in their case, it's crucial...)
1
This is why I wouldn't like to have a gun owner living next doors and certainly not my children playing in their house.
4
@Dev you probably live near several.
While this article’s central idea is praiseworthy, the kind of deaths caused by guns that is more horrifying and psychologically more damaging is the random shooting kind of gun murders. When a gun owner‘s own carelessness leads to a death, there is a sort of blame worthiness causation and predictability to that than something totally random and evil.
How can I use my assault rifles to protect my family if they’re locked away in a gun safe somewhere?
1
@Johnny Squid- If your family is locked away in a gun safe, that should work out fine.
2
Surely a death from letting a loaded gun pass into the unsupervised hand of a child is criminally negligent homicide? It is a death resulting from serious negligence.
With privilege comes responsibility. Own a gun, own the consequences.
1
Surely a death from letting a loaded gun pass into the unsupervised hand of a child is criminally negligent homicide? It is a death resulting from serious negligence.
With privilege comes responsibility. Own a gun, own the consequences.
1
@herne If your 17 year old "child" gets drunk while at home without your knowledge, takes you car keys and kills someone while driving your car is that also criminally negligent homicide on your part? Own a car own the responsibility. The privilege of owning a car comes responsibility, no?
2
@peversma
Your car is not designed to kill people. Your firearm is. The argument you used could be applied to spoons or barstools.
When I had small children in the house I kept the knives and other sharp kitchen tools in a drawer with a child-lock because such a thing is dangerous when misused.
Firearms are inherently dangerous, it's why they exist. Why wouldn't you keep them in a manner that prevents misuse?
2
@Matthew My question was to negligence. If your drunk 17 year old somehow gets your car keys and takes your car and kills someone, by the original poster's logic, you did not secure the car and are guilty of criminally negligent homicide. Last I checked, drunk drivers don't use a "cars aren't designed to kill people" defense very well.
1
My wife and I raised five children. I've owned firearms for some 55 years. None of my children ever saw my weapons let alone had access to them. My children are grown and living on their own. All of my firearms are locked in gun safes and my ammunition is kept in a closet that locks. Too much emphasis is placed on ownership in the US and not nearly enough on proper handling. Gun safety is certainly a big part of proper handling.
18
It is impossible to have a gun accident in a house that does not have a gun in it. As proximity to a gun decreases so does personal safety.
9
@Dale--
My rifle and shotgun are stored, unloaded, in a locked gun cabinet requiring a key. Once you take the weapons from the locked cabinet, each one has a specific trigger lock which requires different specific keys for each. Ammunition is stored in another part of the house in a key locked ammo box. If I needed to load a weapon against an intruder, I'd be long dead before I could come close to loading.
The article says "In the last decade, guns killed more than 14,000 American children." And some posters have challenged that number saying it's really in the 2,000 range for children under 18.
The CDC says from 2006 to 2015, 7,445,483 unborn children's lives were aborted. None of those were suicides. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_statistics_in_the_United_States
Are children safer in my house or being conceived in a house with a woman who believes she has a "right to choose"?
3
@Underhill--
So you're more focused on the 14,000 children who lost their lives as opposed to 7.4 million who lost theirs.
Can’t see that the issue of abortion has anything to do with gun safety. Your argument is an example of false equivalency.
3
Nearly 30 years ago I studied a handgun safety program being implemented in Charlotte North Carolina. The police institute of the program and advocated that individuals owning guns locked them up and keep them separate from their bullets. While the gun store owners were skeptical of the program they went along,. While long-term data about the impact of this activity was not available at the time, please officers were very clear that this was the best way to keep people safe. They argued that if a homeowner was properly trained in managing their weapon they could get it from the safe load it can use it if someone enter the home. It’s so unsettling maddening in the in fact, that we are still having the same conversation in 2019. Where are our brains?
5
Trigger locks are somewhere between useless and superfluous as all firearms should be stored in safes when not in use. And the only stored firearms that should be in a loaded condition are those that are placed in safes with doors that pop open with entry of a pin code and/or swiping of a fingerprint or RFID device. Costco sells a $100 wall-mount pistol safe that has a drop down shelf that opens with a four digit pin code; this type of safe satisfies any immediate access need while keeping the weapon safe from children or other unauthorized persons.
4
The problem with storing and/or hiding the gun is that it takes away from the myth of the reason the gun is there in the first place.
Mommy and Daddy feel obliged to have that gun at the ready to protect the kids from the murderous illegal immigrants, or drug dealers, or burglars, or whatever, that they are certain, any moment now, will come barging through the door.
How do you expect a the heads of a household to protect that household if the gun is under lock and key?
The key to gun violence is to remember that it is mostly predicated on a myth...
8
@Kerry
A myth. Oh really?
I've had three instances in my life where my family was seriously threatened when we were just minding our own business. One was a break-in, while we were home, and two were while camping where there was no police protection.
Get out more. See the world as it really is. There are dangerous people out there, and the authorities are not just a phone-call away. When the person broke into our rural home, when my daughter and grandsons were there, it took the sheriff's deputy ONE HOUR to get to us.
A myth, huh?
5
@Dan: Yes, a myth. You may have felt that your guns saved you in the cases you describe, and you might be right, although in the instances I know of, of people finding intruders in the house, the bad guys ran away when the women yelled at them. True fact. But the larger reality is that your experience is the unusual one. The well known statistics still show that guns in the home more often end up harming the people in the home, that any dangerous intruders.
2
Please be so careful with storage and hiding . And never underestimate how clever a 6 year old can be in finding and getting that gun and, even when ammo is hidden another, difficult place, in finding it.
It took me a year to locate where dad’s pistol was. Six times I found where it had been. (Smell of the oil.) finally, it had to be in the hardest location to reach in the whole five bedroom with basement house.
It was. Up thru a tiny, high door in my parents’ bedroom closet with no stairs. Across the entire attic, with no planking, just thin beams. Underneath the insulation. Got it!
At least I had been taught how to safely handle, carry, and point it. Yes, it was loaded.
~35 years later my 8 year old Raymond. My storeroom was 10’ high by 15’x20’, stacked with furniture and books to within 2’ of the ceiling.
I am working near the front several feet searching for some books. “Dad, you ate so easy to figure out your hiding places. It is always the hardest to find and to get too. So all the way back to the right and down to the floor is you gun. So of course the ammo was going to be all the way over and down to the bottom left corner.” As he crawled out of the 8’ of boxes and furniture and RHS.
Thank God nothing collapsed and smothered the little grinning boy. “So easy!”
He is now a pediatrician and, after so many such doings, lucky to be alive. And one very wise pediatrician.
3
This article offers a great idea to help reduce gun-related deaths by providing safe and secure storage for guns.
Trigger locks cost under $10 each on Amazon.
Why doesn’t some anti-gun billionaire (Hint: Mike Bloomberg) make a bulk purchase of many millions of trigger locks (thus bringing the unit price well under $5) and give them away or sell them at a reduced price to gun owners? Another approach would be to make a special offering of said trigger locks on Amazon, which already has a nation-wide purchase, distribution and fulfillment system in place.
Most gun owners are responsible citizens, not crazed rednecks as often portrayed in the liberal media, and would undoubtedly take part in such a worthwhile program.
Yes, there are lots of details to sort out to make such a program work, but if we can land a man on the moon and conquer polio, surely we can figure out how to take this simple step to enhance gun safety without having to rewrite the Constitution.
3
@Mon Ray: Unfortunately, the price of the mechanism isn't the main problem. Too many gun owners just don't care, and would leave their guns lying around no matter how many free locks you gave them because they just don't recognize the problem -- or they have a fantasy that they need to have the thing ready for a gun battle at the drop of a hat, and would't use a lock because it doesn't fit their fantasy. If they can afford a gun and ammunition, they can afford the items required for keeping it safe. (And we can assert all kinds of regulations without rewriting the Constitution, if it comes to that, just by interpreting it correctly, the way it was interpreted from the time it was written up until the Reagan era.)
1
Guns are locked in a safe unloaded. - My husband is the only one who hunts or goes to the range and thus the only one who knows the combination. It should be pretty easy to convince people who own guns for sporting purposes to practice gun safety. Its the people with the gun in the nightstand for protection against "intruders" who are going to be the hard sell. Too bad they don't realize that the ones they are putting at risk are their own loved ones.
9
This type of issue used to be what the NRA was good at when I was a member back in the 60s. It was all about proper handling, use and storage. They did not and still do not advocate having loaded weapons in one's house. They also argued for separate storage of guns and their related ammo. Somewhere lover time the message about gun safety has been hijacked.
6
I am THRILLED to see this story.
Of course we have to deal with larger-scale catastrophic violence.
But if you're a gun owner and really want to save lives, store your guns safely and protect them from the perpetrator responsible for such a significant number of deaths and injuries.
You.
1
Ft Ord, ~1985, my wife is visiting in vase housing a range safety NCOs house with my 2 year old son, who is playing with their 2 year old.
The boys drag in a shotgun. Loaded! Look what we found. “Why is a loaded shotgun in this house where the 2 year olds can find it?” asked my wife.
The husband from another room answered “Because when we need it against an intruder there is no time to load or unlock access!”
Yeah. A lot of intruders in base housing.
Years ago a very special young -16 year teenager had a another youth, his best friend, who gave weapons training visiting. The other youth heard him say that his mother slept with a loaded handgun in the top drawer next to her bed.
The boy asked him what he knew about safe handling. “Nothing.” So he told him to bring it to him and he would teach the basics.
My very special friend got the weapon and tripped, striking his elbow, shooting it thru two closed doors and into his best friend’s head. Dead.
The family understood for about six months and consoled. But then turned on him. Almost 50 years later he still has not recovered nor gotten himself together.
Note. I was a 11B combat medic and then sniper in Nam. I love firearms. I also love children and have six plus as many grandchildren.
3
Long ago, when I was a little boy my best friend went to another friends house. The boy pulled out his fathers shotgun and blew my best friends head off. I lost two people that day. It just took 10 years for John to kill himself in a drunken wreck. I own guns. They are so locked down and buried that if someone was to break in, I'd have to hit them with a stick. With my Grandkids around, that is the way it should be.
6
I would take it a step further and legislate criminal penalties for failure to lock up a gun. Especially in a house with children present.
9
@Me - Believe it or not, the "gun rights" organizations whine that such a law violates the 2nd Amendment. Apparently, it's acceptable to outlaw drunk driving because there is no constitutional right to drink or to drive, but requiring someone to store his or her guns safely infringes on the right to keep and bear arms.
As a gun owner, this line of thinking strikes me as just plain ridiculous.
4
Yes, gun storage is critical. If we stored handguns and assault rifles at licensed shooting ranges where they were locked up when not being used, a whole lot of people would be alive who are now dead because we allow just about anyone to pack heat in this country, enabling an endless stream of stupid murders and suicides and accidental shootings and mass killings.
Repeal the Second Amendment.
5
@August West: Interpreted correctly, the second amendment itself isn't a problem. The problem is the number of people who buy into the myth of guns as self-protection, the number who just treat them as casual entertainment, a normal thing to have around without giving it much thought -- and the presumably smaller number of fanatics who cherish the notion that they are defending their freedom. We need sensible regulations, and also cultural efforts to debunk some myths.
1
This is the more productive way to reduce gun deaths. Because of politics, demographics and the Constitution, the Second Amendment and it's advocates are not going to be totally overcome--which leaves the gun control fight about the edges with banning bumpstocks or the like being the result. While such minor inroads may help a little on the margins, they won't impact gun deaths in a large way.
However, information campaigns and PSAs that illustrate the dangers of owning a gun and the safety benefits of not owning a gun could have a larger impact. Would mothers think twice if they knew suicides are 3-4 times more likely in homes with a gun? Also knowing that fewer than 2% of gun deaths are where the gun is used in legal self-defense? Since most gun deaths are suicides and accidents, maybe we can reduce those by helping people be more informed about whether they should own a gun and, if they do, the steps they need to take to secure it more safely. Let's spend a few billion on those kinds of ads.
5
My husband recently bought a hand gun, to my chagrin. We agreed that for health and safety, the gun would never be kept in the house. It is stored at the gun range in a locker. It does cost extra. I am glad to be able to pay to prevent the gun from being used for suicide or homicide. Also, I think the gun locked up at the range is less likely to be stolen and misused (never say never, but...) And if you do keep guns home and even locked, change the combo or the place you keep the key often. Kids know everything. They figure out anything. I used to look at my dad's guns in his bottom dresser drawer.
8
@Emily
Bravo!
1
The Guns Over People party continues to adhere to the obscene 1996 Dickey Amendment that mandates "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment
The Republican party would prefer that Americans remain unaware that guns and bullets kill 90 Americans - including many children - every single day of the year.
"Drop dead, America !"
GOP 2019
Nice GOPeople.
11
If bullets cost $5,000 each (per Chris Rock's solution), you can bet gun owners would lock them up in a safe.
5
And children do cost a heck of a lot more each!
2
'Smart Guns' made by Mossberg can only fire if the owner is wearing a special ring. The gun can then be immediately accessible for people worried about home invasion, yet cannot be fired by anyone not wearing the special ring. Unfortunately, the NRA waged a massive campaign against the technology.
6
@John Mardinly show us a smart gun that LEOs are comfortable relying on, then get back to us.
3
The National Shooting Sports Foundation has already given away 38 million FREE gun locks to firearms owners. This is funded by donations by members of NSSF, such as Cabella’s.
It would be a major help if the gun control advocates could contribute to this effort as well. It easy for them to complain and lobby, but they do nothing at all that actually promotes gun safety or education. Nothing.
How about Brady, etc, giving away some gun locks?
Get yours from National Shooting Sports Foundation https://www.projectchildsafe.org/safety/find-a-safety-kit
3
@Park bench - you are right, the gun-safety organizations should also back this effort - as should a former gun-safety organization now called the NRA. But the Brady group and others should be supporting this.
People interested should also check with their local police department since they may offer the same or partner with the NSSF on this. The VA also offers them to veterans.
Anyone thinking it would be wrong for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence to help offer something that still leaves a gun in a house should reconsider. We need incremental improvements in safety on an issue that's so deep a part of our country that increments should be grabbed in any way.
2
When my family worried about whether my mentally ill parent would dig out the on the old shotgun, we were able to get a gun lock from the local sheriff’s office without charge.
3
"Safer storage could do more to save children’s lives than many legislative efforts that get more attention."
It makes no sense to compare ''legislative efforts" with something people can do at home:
They are apples and oranges. (If you think not, design an experiment that will tell us which one "does more.")
My son was murdered by a meth addicted young man using a shotgun he had stolen out of a trailer; the gun was not in a locked gun case and had no trigger lock. The gun owner said he did not realize he had left a gun behind when he moved out. Then he walked away. The local K Mart sold ammunition to a young man who was clearly strung out on the meth to which he was addicted. Nothing holds them accountable. Thanks be to the pawn broker following a police radio who was able to detain the murderer as he tried to pawn a gun which still bore my son's blood.
God forbid we legislate who can own a gun, make them learn how to safely use and store a gun, or a waiting period for the purchase of guns and ammunition which would have shown that my son's murderer was both unstable and had multiple arrests on his record. Everyone involved in his death was protected by the laws except my son, a beloved child, and our family. My heart is with the parents of Sandy Hook and the children of Parkland; they have strength in numbers and support they may not even realize and I pray they prevail.
This is just one story in a vast nation which cannot acknowledge the overwhelming nature of the consequences of their inaction for families like ours in their misguided apprehension about gun control..
45
We are so sorry for the loss of your beloved child.
3
It's unfortunate that smart gun technology hasn't taken off. As an option for legal gun owners, that personal ID would be one more option as an additional deterrence to prevent their child from taking their life and likely contribute to a reduction in accidental deaths as well.
1
This article by itself is an indication of how self-centered and inane this country is....
3
Yikes. Some of these comments are scaring me. This is gun storage stuff is pretty simple. I have a kid in my home and I have guns. They're unloaded and ammo is locked so my family is safer. I also want my family to be safe from intruders. A loaded handgun in a small safe next to my bed can be immediately opened with a 4 digit pin or my thumbprint, just like my iphone.
13
@Patrick
Now we're talking! Thank you Patrick! I assume you don't share the combination with your children! You are an example of how to find a way to make things work.
2
If someone breaks into your home, it is usually to steal something, not kidnap or to harm someone. Rather than get into a shooting match, let them take what they want. The chances are insurance will pay for the losses and you still have your life.
Keeping a loaded gun in your home unless you live by yourself, is an invitation for a gun accident.
8
@allen roberts
This is a pretty naive comment based on an assessment of risk you really aren't able to make accurately. You are counting on the good will of someone who has already violated fairly strong social proscriptions. You may evaluate risk differently than I do, but surrendering control is asking a a lot of the fates.
The second paragraph is an empirical statement without any data to support it.
4
@allen roberts
Wow! another practical approach! Thank you, Allan!
1
@allen roberts ask any recent victim of robbery or burglary (especially women) how secure they feel in their home, even if the bad guy only took stuff. Helpless reliance on criminal good will? It's not remotely comforting. A gun, otoh....
And then call up your insurance agent and ask what the benefits and consequences of filing a claim would be. (In short, a money loser for you - home insurance only makes sense for big claim)
1
Repeal PLCAA
Pass Extreme Risk Protection Order Laws
Do not vote for NRA backed shills.
Repeal Heller Decision
Do these and the gun deaths will dramatically decrease.
5
Most handguns are purchased for protection against that imaginary or otherwise intruder who will enter their home. In which case the home owner will pull out his weapon and shoot and defend himself from the intruder. The weapon is kept at hand and loaded. In most cases that "intruder" happens to be a curious child or relative and thus we have an unnecessary victim rather than a crime stopped. Stupid is what stupid does! Can't do anything about stupid!
7
@Theni
Yes. It is frightening to think of what can happen whenever your own children are suddenly in play. Quite a few good eminently practical approaches are being voiced. Our Founding Fathers lived in the day of horse-riding robbers and often sadly clashed with the native American first-comers. I'm afraid that way too many were killed or severely injured in the resulting fracases as a result. The white first settlers saw it as their right to take whatever land and water was available. I think we'd al agree it was wrong to toss high-powered weapons into the hands of greedy settlers who then chose to use them to kill for local advantages.
2
@Theni
Do you ever go out of the house?
I bought and carry a firearm for when I'm outside the house. That's the reason most people buy handguns.
Supposedly, shotguns are most popular for home defense.
Our town created an ordinance that requires residents to keep their guns locked up while they’re away from the house. It was an uphill battle to get it passed because the NRA sent a lobby to the town meeting to try and stop it. The NRA isn’t interested in common sense safety measures. They counter everything that restricts the free flow of guns in any way. Luckily there were ex-NRA members present who pointed out the good sense of the ordinance and it passed.
17
@Underhill
bravo to them! I think it'd safe to say that reason can prevail...but not without someone standing up and proposing change. Miracles can be wrought...but only if someone says, "why not".
1
What about this:
Have every state pass a law that any resident seeking a gun permit who agrees to allow police to visit and enter his/her dwelling once each year without advance notice so as to verify the owner/purchaser has indeed secured the weapon(s) locked with trigger guards or in lockboxes and locked and unloaded. Those agree to these conditions will be granted annually an "x" percent annual tax deduction.
And the already booming black market in gun traffic will explode! (No pun intended)
I’m not a gun owner, and if I were, I’d lock mine up nice and safe, and I don’t have anything to hide, and I still wouldn’t agree to this! It gives far to many opportunities for abuse, not to mention the fact that it’s simply not what a police force is meant to do.
2
@Margaret Fox
Dear Ms Fox,
I've always thought of our local police as the front line when it comes to protecting the citizenry. They'd be happy to hear of your care, as am I. So why not ask them? Unless someone raises their hand and stands up to speak, not much can get done. If it don't work, or you can't stand being shouted down, write a letter to your local paper. The NRA is a BIG-time force in the arms industry and in homes throughout the USA. It takes courage, but then isn't seeing just one less child killed in a school worth the effort?
1
That’s exactly what they do in the U.K. and some other European nations...Spot inspections for proper storage of legal firearms...
1
The enforcement of such a law seems impossible. The people with kids who store guns loaded and unlocked seem unlikely to comply with this type of law.
6
@Kohl
The enforcement of most laws is problematic at the moment they are broken. The broken law often comes to light later when a tragedy happens. For example, wearing a seat belt is the law and no doubt there are people who don’t wear seat belts and never get prosecuted. But when there’s a crash and it turns out a child in the back seat dies because they weren’t wearing a seat belt then the adult driver would rightly be prosecuted.
The prosecution would then lead to more people thinking about the common sense safety reasons of the seat belt law, which then leads to more people following it. Laws are prescriptive. They prescribe action and in a healthy society people follow them because they see that they make sense!
4
The NRA has convinced many people that they need guns for self-defense - that without guns, they should fear home invasions. But self defense is incompatible with gun safety. An unloaded and locked-up gun is useless for preventing home invasions.
The paranoid gun owner, and it appears that there are many of them, will never be a safe gun owner.
10
@Geoff: The truth is that in most of the USA, home invasion robberies are few and far between. As a retired Criminal Defense attorney I learned that the most common item stolen in home invasions robberies were guns. Most gun deaths are in the home by and of the gun owners or their family members. I have guns. Unless I am at the firing range they are unloaded and locked up. Geoff is correct that the NRA, in order to sell more guns for its main contributors, the gun industry, works hard to convince every gun owner that they need that gun for self defense.
13
@Geoff
"The NRA has convinced many people that they need guns for self-defense..."
It's an easy sell, too, WAY too easy, given that guns speak to the macho side and children, too, who watch cowboy and Indians TV tales then grow up to become wannabe deerslayers.
1
@Geoff My friends who own guns tell me it is ridiculous to have unloaded guns or locked up guns in their homes. "Wait home invasion intruder i have to get my gun out of the locked cabinet". We have Iphones that will unlock with a recognized fingerprint. Why not a trigger lock that does the same thing? That way a loaded pistol can be kept in the nightstand or where ever and is ready for use in a split second.
Safe storage of guns would save all sorts of lives, not just children.
Any barrier that increases the time it takes to commit suicide saves lives. That's why bridges have high railings now. It's not impossible to climb over them, but few people reach the top still wanting to go through with it. The same is true with guns.
Keeping guns locked up will also limit accidental deaths and may even reduce school shootings. Home is the source of most guns used in school shootings, and it's unlikely that all shooters would be able to get firearms elsewhere.
Safely stored guns are also hard for criminals to steal, but guns in a nightstand are easily taken in a burglary. Hundreds of thousands of guns are stolen each year, entering criminal networks and being used to commiut crimes. Why make it easy for criminals?
Finally, if you think a loaded gun is central to staying safe at home, keep it on your person at all times. A loaded gun in the bedroom won't save you if you're napping in front of the tv or taking a shower, but it could easily be grabbed by someone else.
8
Let’s be honest these people aren’t willing to act rationally or responsibly. They want the government out. Common sense does not apply.
6
These are very logical and appropriate suggestions.
But many of the gun people that I have encountered see any gun safety suggestion, no matter how logical and appropriate, as an existential threat.
May gun people are loathe to talk about suicide, which as mentioned are two thirds of gun deaths, especially among middle aged, older, rural men. After all, I've heard, if you want to kill yourself you're going to find a way - not a gun access issue at all.
And many of them are quick to change any conversation involving children to the glories of teaching boys to hunt.
So - as much as I want to thank the authors for their thoughtful and methodical search for solutions, I don't hold out hope that the gun people will consider any of it.
7
My father was in law enforcement. I knew he had arrived home every night when i heard him unload the chamber of his gun into a tea cup on the hutch in the dining room. And then i would hear the padlock go through the chamber. The gun would go on the top of the hutch until the next morning. All of us kids knew where that gun was but we also knew it was padlocked so what was the point.
My boyfriend snuck into the house one night while my dad was asleep in the den. When my dad awoke and found the boyfriend he let him know that if his gun hadn’t been locked my dad probably would have accidentally killed him. My dad knew that guns in the home most often result in family tragedy so he protected us by locking his gun always the moment he stepped into the house.
Like so many things in this country gun ownership has become excessive and accessible to people who fail to exercise proper care/storage.
First thing my dad did after retiring? He sold his off duty weapon.
47
@Fiona’s Mom
You dad was very smart man.
4
@Fiona’s Mom
Your dad sounds like a wise man.
3
The NRA lobbied heavily to prevent pediatricians from speaking to parents about guns in the home. They are a disgraceful organization and I am rooting for their demise.
51
The way that alcohol and strong prescription drugs like opioids are stored can also save lives.
Responsible adults should acknowledge the fact that both naive young children and crafty adolescents have a marked tendency to open doors without authorization, and to access ingredients that aren't advisable for them to ingest.
I've long been of the opinion that opioid prescriptions should come with a small lockbox or canister, accessible only with a combination. And supplies of alcohol are best stored in locked cabinets. Taking measures to prevent diversion is responsible harm reduction. Almost no expense of effort is required, and it makes for much more effective check on poisonings and reckless adolescent experimentation than, say, intervention by police or paramedics later on.
7
Here in California it's a felony to leave a gun out where a child can get it.
27
@James Ribe it should be a felony to have a gun in a home where children live.
12
@Glen Ridge Girl Comments like yours don't help move the ball forward at all.
2
Just do the right thing. Store your gun safely. Children are smart and know where things are hidden so that idea generally fails. My father’s brother picked up a loaded handgun at about age 8 pointed and shot it at my dad, then age 7. Luckily he missed by an inch. It was “hidden” in their parents bedroom.
19
Maybe this is where the legislative initiatives should fall. If children have access to guns and commit crimes, even against themselves, parents should be held legally responsible for not having the guns stored in a way that would make them inaccessible. Guns should not be in the hands of children who can then take them to school and kill people. If they are, the adults who enabled their getting them should be held as accessories to the murders. Americans have to get over the fantasy that they need a loaded gun at hand to defend themselves. The chances they will be able to do that have been shown to be minuscule. Nobody uses an assault weapon against a burglar, so why should it be accessible to a child? The chances that those guns will cause harm or death to children through accidents, suicide or crime are far higher. If parents knew they could go to jail for carelessness and irresponsibility in storing their guns, they might think twice. Start passing laws mandating proper gun storage now.
21
For gun owners to take this legislation seriously, it needs to make failure to safeguard one's guns and ammunition more than just a fine or a misdemeanor, especially if someone kills themselves or others. In the case, abetting gun owners should be tried for manslaughter or even murder, and their names pasted on a "no gun" list across the land. Such a penalty would very likely have saved my child's life.
24
@Concerned American
Agreed! 100%
5
It is sad when anyone dies before his or her time, whether by gun or knife or auto or other means. However, the numbers presented in this are article not entirely clear or explanatory.
The author states "In the last decade, guns killed more than 14,000 American children." This is an average of 1,400 per year, which is a much less alarming number than 14,000, though of course great cause for concern. However, gun deaths are well down the list of non-natural causes of death for children and adults.
In a related article on Aug. 7, 2017 the NYT states "There are about twice as many suicides annually using guns (more than 21,000 in 2014) as there are homicides using guns." Why this important comparison was left out of today's article I don't understand, since it greatly strengthens the argument in favor of storing guns safely and securely.
Further, the 2017 NYT article goes on to state that "Almost none of the guns used in suicides are assault weapons, and yet that seems to be the singular focus of many activists."
Focusing on gun safety and secure storage would seem to be a more productive and life-saving approach to follow than trying to confiscate, or outlaw private ownership of, guns.
After all, if owning guns is criminalized, only criminals will own guns.
10
@Mon Ray: You sounded sensible until your last NRA sponsored comment. As a gun owner, I think it should be a crime to fail to safely store a gun. And it should be a felony with mandatory prison time if a gun owner's child is accidentally wounded or killed by that owner's failure to secure the gun. My guns are all locked up in one place and my ammunition is locked up in another place, even though I live alone.
9
@Mon Ray You do realize the article was not about criminalizing owning guns? Why would you jump to that conclusion? This is the problem in a nutshell -someone suggests common sense regulation (safe storage of guns should not be controversial) and people jump to the absurd conclusion that everyone's coming for your guns. Ridiculous.
5
Our family all has firearms and a long history of hunting but firearm safety is first on the list. We all took our hunter and firearm safety class even those of us who are old enough to be exempt from the mandatory state regulation. Some of us are hunter safety instructors as well. No one seems to object to the mandatory hunter safety classes. Safe storage of firearms is just one component of firearm safety. Alas, when we talk with other firearm owners, any expansion of firearm safety training requirements to all firearm owners, there is immediate, fierce and stiff resistance to the idea and the most resistance of all comes from NRA members. 2nd amendment they cry, slippery slope they cry. Illogical since it affects neither second amendment rights or common sense safety.
17
@tom I think more 2nd Amendment supporters would be all for a safety training requirement if it was a free course. They dislike the idea of paying for a right. Plus, it would mean people who are poor and more likely to live in areas where they'd actually need a gun for self defense would have more of a burden if they have to pay for a license or training on top of the price of a gun.
It seems much better to me than putting fees and such in place so that only the rich have guns.
2
@M V Firearms safety classes used to be free from the NRA and are free in many locations. I suspect there would be no problem getting enough qualified instructors for free safety classes. The two gun shops I frequent will give them free if asked.
1
@M V Guns are expensive. The average pistol costs $300 to $500. "Poor people" can't afford guns. Besides, in this country no one needs a gun for safety. I was a criminal defense attorney for over 20 years. Not one single case in that time involved a gun owner who was able to defend themselves from a home invasion robbery. A gun for self defense is only effective if it is loaded and cocked and within reach of your hand at all times.
1
I think safer gun storage is something that many people frequently overlook. My dear 15-year-old cousin was able to take advantage of poor gun storage to ultimately end his life. Of course, his death isn’t caused by the poor gun storage, but his access to a gun made his suicide attempt successful.
Although we have no way to know if he would have tried a different method if he did not have access to guns, I know that his parents and many members of my family have agonized over “what-ifs” with regard to my cousin’s suicide. If anything, making gun storage laws would hopefully help them find peace in knowing that fewer sons and daughters will take their lives due to inadequate storage.
11
@Friendly Giraffe Exactly. Someone who is suicidal is a lot more likely to be successful with a gun and a lot more able to act impulsively with access to one. I agonized about what access my young adult son might have to guns when he was seriously depressed and living away from us. Fortunately he is healthy and safe now. I am so sorry about your cousin.
5
"...given political stalemates over gun rights, it seems an area in which policymakers could be more productive. "
Unfortunately, when one side attacks a fundamental right, it becomes even harder for the other side to trust it at all. Until 'gun safety' advocates on the left stop attacking the 2nd Amendment, they can not be trusted to write laws respecting same.
I'm a gun owner and NRA member, and I support safe storage of firearms, BUT I am very wary of what 'fine print' mght make it into such laws.
8
As an NRA member you have no grounds on which to judge other people’s political views. Your organization promotes an extreme and violent ideology that is undermining our freedoms and taking our children’s lives.
If you can’t compromise and function in a democracy (or a republic if you need your little conservative label) then go live in one of the world’s many autocracies. Am sure Russia would make a great new home for you.
8
@Dana
Same reasoning as those who support abortion rights.
@Samantha As an ex NRA member, I agree with @Dana. The only reason I've left the NRA is that they've forgotten there are people on the left who fully support the second amendment as well and continue to patronize their traditionally right membership and play on their fears (though definitely not as much as other 2A lobbyists that most anti-2A types don't even realize are out there).
1
Its common sense that children should be denied access to things that may hurt them, which they may be insufficiently mature or experienced to be left with unsupervised. That extends beyond firearms to alcoholic beverages, access to automobiles, internet connected computers, and a host of other things that children should not be trusted with unsupervised.
So Times, give us pointers on how to safely store our booze, hide our car keys, and secure our computers so that kids cannot just turn them on and visit web sites dangerous to them. Or is it only firearms that concern the newspaper?
4
@RM
This article concerns the beneficial effects of locked, unloaded guns on decreasing child deaths, especially suicides, by guns.
I am sure if you look through the NYT database ( or Google it), there probably are articles on how to safely secure computers and smartphones to prevent certain websites ( porn or otherwise) from being surfed. Maybe you can do the research and get back to us.
2
I'm a westerner by birth (Alaska), culture, and education. We shoot guns there. We plink cans and hunt deer and elk and moose to fill our freezers. Most of the people I grew up with who had guns used them to target shoot and hunt; as for the idea of "home invasions," our plan was to call the police.
When my son, age 8, was given a .22 by my brother for Christmas, my first act was to take the bolt and the clip out of the gun and to store it at my workplace. When we went out to target shoot, I'd retrieve them. The first rules he learned were "keep the the barrel pointed at the ground," never shoot when someone is in front of you," and "never point at anything you don't intend to shoot."
Keeping the ammunition apart from the gun, and both under lock and key, are not only common sense practices; they ought to be the law. People with children in the house who keep loaded handguns under their pillows or mattresses or in their bedside tables ought to be charged with child endangerment.
86
When my children were in the house my guns were unloaded and individually locked at all times. The ammunition was stored in a different location in a locked box. Guess what? No accidents with kids. Its easy if you exhibit even the tiniest bit of responsibility. The parents of a child shot with an unsecured gun are obviously going through mental agony, but that is not enough. They have to be made examples for other people so that this situation does not happen again. There should be jail time if a life was lost. It is so easy to keep children safe and there should be penalties for those who choose not to do so.
19
@Bobotheclown Agree, but it seems that we always hear "the parent/uncle/stepparent etc has suffered enough, so no charges will be pressed".
2
The medical profession, including health providers and their representative organizations, must be able to modify the beliefs of its patients and citizens in general. This, despite numerous errors in their critical reasoning skills, allowing lies and gross errors in probabilistic judgment. That's what eventually happened with cigarette smoking but only after the industry lies and consumer ignorance about the huge damage to health from smoking.
And guns are addictive, just like cigarettes.
3
@A Goldstein "And guns are addictive, just like cigarettes."
I imagine this comes from the viewpoint of someone who isn't a smoker and doesn't own guns. There's literally no proof of the claim here.
6
@M V Why else would a person stockpile weapons? Why does anyone need 20 guns? Why does a person need a high capacity magazine? Not to hunt. It seems guns are addictive.
8
@M V Not everyone who smokes a cigarette gets addicted to them. Some addictive things are more so than others. But come on, if you've shot a gun, there's a rush. People get excited. It makes them feel better. The fantasy of gunning down intruders is compelling to some. Look at shooter video games or shoot-em-up western movies, how they capture attention.
Dr. Goldstein's insight should be examined with neurological methods.
The paper in "Childhood Firearm Injuries" in "Pediatrics" is worth reading.
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/140/1/e20163486
The conclusions about firearm homicide w/r/t children reads in part:
"Firearm homicides of younger children were significantly more likely to be intimate partner violence–related [...], to be incidents in which the victim was a bystander, to be related to a recent or impending crisis, and/or to be precipitated by family relationship problems. Firearm homicides of older children were significantly more likely to be precipitated by another crime, to be gang-related, to have drug involvement, and/or to involve weapon use also on the part of the victim."
Frankly, I don't see how "safe storage" laws would affect these trends in firearm homicide very much at all. Safe storage doesn't stop intimate partner violence, and I doubt safe storage requirements affect juveniles who unfortunately shoot each-other while engaged in crime.
What's more, the paper in "Pediatrics" reads
"Boys disproportionately bear the burden of firearm mortality, accounting for 82% of all child firearm deaths."
and
"Older children (aged 13–17 years) had a rate of fatal firearm injury that was more than 12 times higher than the rate for younger children"
and
"African American children have the highest rates of firearm mortality overall"
Taken together, this suggests a social problem to me; not a problem with the hunk of polymer and metal in my closet.
4
@Basil Youngfree - well, the article talks about suicides and accidental deaths, not homicides, but thanks for trying to change the subject.
23
@b fagan And yet, the article doesn't say anything about trying to prevent the reason children go suicidal or help them when they do.
I think everyone would agree that guns should be kept away from kids when they're not supervised by an adult. It's just the good luck enforcing a law requiring that. You'll just be nailing people after the fact.
2
@M V - the problem with your "everyone would agree" statement is there are too many adults, mostly men, who don't agree, and are exposing their households to increased danger, not improving safety.
And the research shows links between the "nobody can tell me where to keep my guns" types are often the same who drink too much, have a tendency to violence, etc.
I am NOT saying that's a 1-to-1 correlation. I am saying that many of the gun owners I know will admit there are guys who are irresponsible with their guns (and sometimes their drinking at the same time) and there are guys that these sensible gun owners admit probably shouldn't own guns.
So we need to make it easier to remove weapons from homes where someone's depressed. We need to make the ban permanent if need be.
Enforcement wouldn't be easy but if a bunch of fathers were put in prison every year after one of their kids or neighbor's kids finds a gun and causes a tragedy, maybe some of the more alert parents would catch on. Drunk driving has penalties and those led to improvements. The death rate from guns is also a big problem the public needs protection from.
1
Dr. Carroll, I am not a pediatrician but I do remember several years ago, there were states that prohibited doctors from asking about guns in the home even. Do those laws still exist? And even if they didn't, there are probably many doctors out there are unclear what they can do during an office visit.
From 2014:
"Since Florida passed the “physician gag law” in 2011, twelve other states have introduced similar legislation. Bills limiting physicians’ free speech right to communicate with their patients were introduced but defeated in Virginia and West Virginia [1]. Similar gag law bills died in the legislatures of Alabama, Missouri, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Tennessee [2, 3], but they remain pending in Oklahoma, Wisconsin, and Ohio [3, 4]. A speech-restricting bill was enacted in Minnesota [2, 5]."
https://web.archive.org/web/20151117063142/http://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/2014/04/pfor2-1404.html
Also, any effort to prevent gun deaths is worth pursuing but flipping your initial statistics shows that 2/3 of children's deaths from guns are not due to suicide. What % are due to accidents with children or adults being the instigator? What % are due to violent parents or other family members.
I also remember at least a few school shooting where the shooter got access to their parents' guns regardless of the safety case they were supposed to be in.
2
@ms
A doctor is the perfect person to give advice about any safety issue. A doctor knows if there are children in a house and can suggest ways to keep them safe. Anyone who doesn't like that idea must be crazy. And if I were a doctor no one would tell me what I could say to my patients. No one.
17
@Bobotheclown I'd argue that physicians are not ideal people to develop these messages. Groups like Walk the Talk America (grass roots effort to reduce firearms misuse in suicide) and people from the IT/hacker/physical security professions are much better equipped to discuss safe firearms storage. Simply put, we deal with access control and physical security on a daily basis and physicians do not.
2
@ms My children are grown now, but their pediatrician routinely asked them about using bike helmets and seatbelts during their annual exams. I honestly don't recall if guns in the home were part of those safety questions, but they should have been if they were not. A pediatrician is in the perfect position to help promote public safety, and why anyone would want to stifle that is beyond me.
3
Safe gun storage flies in the face of the primary argument for guns in the home: protection. I'm sorry, but it is true.
My toddler opened a desk drawer at my in-laws' house to find a loaded handgun. My father-in-law, a retired Army colonel, Tea Party Republican and lifetime NRA member, had about a half-dozen loaded firearms throughout the house. The guns were quickly accessible should a Mexican or Muslim target his tiny corner of a rich San Antonio enclave for some unknown reason.
And that's the problem. If a bad man kicks in your door, then he's not going to wait while you go to the spare bedroom and try to recall the gun safe combination in the dark closet. A gun only provides personal protection in the home if it is available. To you, or teens, or suicidal relatives, or toddlers.
It would be great if the NRA and other gun rights organizations tried to encourage their members to store guns safely, but to do so would invalidate the primary message that they sell: the world is unsafe, people are coming to get you, you can't rely on the police, arm yourself. I'm actually shocked politicians, many on the payroll of the NRA, have been able to push these measures forward.
10
@Steve Acho
Not an expert on the topic, but I remember my uncle (on the (Catholic side of the family) wearing his gun to Christmas dinner. The clip was strapped next to the gun so there was no chance of it firing but he could load it in an emergency. Everyone was happy (by which I mean he seemed happy and the rest of us were significantly less horrified).
If one thinks about a gun at home, keeping the (small, not threatening) clip on your person makes the gun safe (assuming you can remember to clear the chamber after practicing). Alternatively, keeping a pair of shells on your person ready to pop in a double-barreled shotgun is even more foolproof since it is visibly obvious if the gun is empty or not.
Either way, separating the gun from ammunition at all times is free and makes the response time only slightly worse. Any group can argue that requiring fancy gun safes or other locking mechanisms is biased or even unconstitutional, but it is hard to argue against no-cost remedies.
3
@Alan
True, but after the ISIS hordes invade the house and kill your uncle they will have access to his gun and ammo at the same time. I still like a gun safe that ISIS can't get into. They cost a lot, about $100 for the small ones. How can anyone not afford that?
4
@Alan:
Do you know why your uncle felt he needed to wear a gun to a family dinner?
11
Many people I know brag about what guns they have. I never do. I don't take them out for people to admire. My guns are stored in a not obvious place, secured and with trigger locks. My grandfather kept the key securing his few guns right next to the lock - I do not. And when I take out a gun to use, I make sure the grandkids do not see where it or the key came from. The ammo is on a different floor. This means that my guns would not be very useful for shooting burglars. I guess I'll have to use claymores instead, if I want to shoot burglars. Which I don't.
18
@Marvant Duhon
Please let me know if you would like cable locks for your firearms. A cable lock is more secure, requiring a firearm to be unloaded. Although trigger locks may look secure they often are not. It only takes a few seconds to 'unlock' a cable lock and load a firearm. Those seconds allow a person to quickly identify if the perceived threat is real or not. I live in Bloomington IN also.
2
@Marvant Duhon
I keep my guns well locked and out of sight as well. If a burglar ever comes I plan to scare him with my cat.
4
@Theresa Malone Cable locks are not the worst idea but a bad idea. Cheap and not going to deter an unsophisticated attacker from gaining access if they watch one or two Youtube videos (the locks are just that bad). They also do nothing to prevent the removal of the firearm. If a firearm is staged for immediate use, it should be in a quick access safe next to a powerful LED flashlight because positive Target ID is mandatory. Additionally a flashlight shined in the the eyes of assailant will often cause them too flee.
4
What we lack is called for in the first clause of the second amendment - the well-regulated militia. The founders of the nation knew that it is the people, not the weapons that are the problem. We have a lot of private arsenals in this nation and while some participate in voluntary weapon associated organizations the majority of Americans have their weapons but never associate with others least of all a government run mandatory association.
One thing we know about most gun based killings is that the perpetrator is usually a "loner" few associations and lots-and-lots of rage. These people would, and do stand out, in groups.
We need state government based militias where individuals with or wanting to have weapons are subject to screening, evaluation, training, qualification and inspection by the civil authorities. Just like the police academies and military training find that some people are unsuited to be armed, so would a state militia find that some people either due to past criminal convictions or complaints and/or psychological problems should not have weapons. Also the inspection would require proper legal storage of weapons in private homes with the better option to maintain your weapons in a duly controlled arsenal outside your home.
5
@George N. Wells
You are beating a dead horse talking about the old militia thing. No one cares. But you did hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the depressed loner whose symptoms are so severe they stand out in a crowd. What you have identified is a mental health problem that is not being addressed due to timidity over healthcare privacy laws and second amendment excuses. If people visibly need help there should be a way to intervene and help them. For free. It would help the isolated individual and it would help society with less mass shootings. The skilled professionals are already trained and medical procedures are already in place, all we need as a society is the determination to do what needs to be done to help people and prevent mass shootings. It would be easy to accomplish once the political timidity is set aside. We have the choice to help ourselves, who is stopping us from doing it?
3
@Bobotheclown, et al.,
The Militia hit it's nadir during the War of 1812. However, the horse is out of the barn when people want to ban weapons. We could shut down all of the weapons manufacture on the planet and America would still have the most heavily armed population.
The mental health issue is noted but what is there to get people out of their home and amongst others who can identify those with problems that may turn violent? Mandatory drills, training, evaluation sessions would be one way and constitutional.
We ignore the average of 50 killings done every day with firearms unless it is a mass shooting in a school or workplace. The carnage goes on, and on,...
2
From what I have read, suicide is an impulsive act. Reducing the easy and unsupervised availability of firearms to youths could reduce these impulsive suicides. So rather than just passing more laws making things illegal, add some carrots instead of all sticks. Tax breaks on gun safes, literature giveaways in gun stores, and free trigger locks, etc. could be a way to reduce unintended harm as well as build bridges between gun violence prevention and gun owners.
5
@Khal Spencer I imagine this would work well. The biggest reason I hear people complain about safe storage laws is the added burden of cost.
1
@M V
OMG - the "added burden of cost"? For someone who owns legally purchased firearms and ammunition, the additional cost of safe gun storage is a drop in the bucket. And even if it were not, IMHO that would be a poor excuse to not pass any safe gun storage laws...
Wait a minute, so kids who are contemplating suicide will drop the idea of suicide if a gun is inaccessible for them? Am I reading this right?
While it should be mandatory to store guns in a responsible way or relinquish them (and yes, I believe that guns should be in the hands of responsible people only), teen suicide is another huge issue that we need to nip from the core.
Storing guns safely will not curb suicide deaths but they can curb accidents. JAMA needs to use a control in their trails too--how many children from households that do not have guns committed suicide?
3
@APS
I would suggest that you reread the article, particularly its emphasis on reducing gun deaths and gun suicides.
"How guns are stored matters. A study published this morning in JAMA Pediatrics has found that even a modest increase in owners who lock up their guns would pay off in an outsize drop in gun deaths."
13
@APS Difficulty in getting hold of a gun doesn't necessarily mean that teenagers will stop thinking about suicide, but it really does reduce deaths. Suicide attempts are more impulsive than most people think, and a surprising number of attempts are abandoned. Taking pills or slitting wrists aren't instant, and in many cases they'll seek medical help. With a gun, there are no second thoughts once the trigger is pulled.
10
@APS
"Laws preventing children’s access to guns, on the other hand, were associated with significant reductions of suicides by guns, even when reductions were not seen in suicides by other methods."
1
I volunteer with Be SMART for Kids, a gun safety outreacch program with Moms Demand Action. Be SMART advocates for safe gun storage. We have done presentations and set up information tables in 20 local schools and at other local events in Bloomington IN. We have provided over 70 gun cable locks free of charge to parents, grandparents and others. I encourage everyone to check out BeSMARTforKids.org for information about how to keep children safe and how to get in involved in this important work.
24
@Theresa Malone
Every gun should come from the factory with a cable lock device included. Even better, guns should have some kind of a locking device built in to make safe storage easier than it is now. It is not hard to make it safer to store and use guns, the problem is that there are groups that scare government away from doing anything to improve gun design or safety. The result is that we have out of date gun designs and all gun innovation comes from other countries. For a country that prides itself on being gun aware, our existing laws are shooting us in the foot.
5
@Bobotheclown Plenty of gun innovation comes from the US, don't you worry about that. The issue is, you're talking about putting a mechanism on a small device that literally has little explosions going on in it. Even stuff gun owners want on their guns at all times that are electronic get jostled around so much that they need constant calibration to stay useful (like scopes). In addition, you have to take apart guns, clean them out, and put them back together constantly, otherwise the gunpowder's corrosive nature will eventually eat away anything internal.
The reason internal devices aren't a popular thing right now is it's got to be able to withstand the recoil from an explosion, withstand being taken apart and put back together, withstand corrosion, withstand the elements, and be reliable 100% of the time, because nobody wants a device on their gun that would prevent them from shooting it in the case that they truly need to fire it outside of a gun range.
3
The law should require Liability Insurance for guns. Let the insurance industry do its stuff.
50
@William
Gun liability insurance would not be enough to discourage ownership of firearms in general. People would either pay the low fee or not pay at all. It is better to impose a serious penalty for a serious crime. If a child dies because of storage negligence there should be jail time and loss of the right to own firearms, just like a felon.
5
@William This idea always gets tossed around but the reality is the premiums would be at most a few dollars a month.
1
@Bobotheclown--and what happens when your 17 or 18 year old takes out your family's car, gets killed in an accident and kills someone else in the process. Should you be treated as a felon because you left the car keys on the key hook in the kitchen?
When anyone talks about how evil the NRA is regarding gun control their minions spout off how the organization is mostly a gun safety group. And yet, when reasonable citizens try to pass gun storage laws the NRA and their lawyers descend and fight any form of gun laws. Why would they do that? Because the NRA’s main message to Americans is that the nation is overrun by THEM or the OTHER (hint hint who they are) and the ability to have a gun immediately ready to shoot is the only way to protect your family and community.
I have personally tried for years to get my local public school system to simply message parents on safe storage. I've made one single ask - require every parent to sign that they have read and awknowledge the need for locking and securing guns from their kids.
Not a law. Simply to awknowledge that they have read and understand how important it is to lock their guns.
No-one will act. Not a single person in authority will even discuss this issue.
Why? They are too scared of hurting the feelings of gun owners and the "political" nature of the ask.
Know what? I would much rather have a kid come home from school alive than in a body bag than worry about hurting someone's feelings.
46
@Shaun
90% of the NRA's budget goes to lobbying and 10% is spread over administrative, gun culture, and gun safety activities. The NRA spends $100,000 a day on lawyers! They are obviously no longer a gun safety organization and have not been since 1975.
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@Shaun Thank you for trying with your school district! We have tried for 6 years here in Fairbanks and this fall for the first time, our school district will pay for and distribute 15,000 ASKING SAVES KIDS cards to K-12 families. (It only costs $887 a year) We started with the PTA, in one elementary school, who funded and supported this passing out the rack card to families twice a year. Recently, two AK students have brought guns to school, and three high school students have committed suicide in one winter! The district has finally seen the power they have to permeate the community with gun safety education. This nationwide problem of adults not securing their guns is in no way school districts fault. We have NEVER had one complaint about the cards from families, and now families (after seeing the cards twice a year for 6 years) expect to be asked about firearm storage in their homes. We are very proud of this success and proud of our district for working with us. You have to have gun owners at the table, gun safety should be first and foremost in everyone's mind. If you can't talk about gun safety, you can't be at the table.
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There is currently legislation before the NJ legislature, Assembly bill 3696/Senate bill 2240, that is attempting to do just this. Called "The Safe Storage of Firearms" act, it requires safe storage of firearms and establishes penalties for improper firearm storage. Hats off to primary sponsors, Senators Vin Gopal and Linda Greenstein and Assembly members Joann Downey and Eric Houghtaling for bringing this issue before the two houses. I'm pleased that the nonprofit advocacy organization I work for, Unitarian Universalist FaithAction NJ, proposed amendments that would change the initial misdemeanor penalty to a fourth degree crime and revised the age of a minor to be person(s) under 18. Of course, it's tragically "too late" to save the lives of suicides and others killed by firearms every month in NJ...but if this bill makes some folks think twice before keeping their loaded handgun in the bedside table--or with ammo just where kids could expect to find it--then it's worth being heard and passed out of the Senate and Assembly for Governor Murphy to sign.
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@Rob G.
Tragically, this bill will not effect anything because NJ already has the second toughest (after CA) gun laws in the country. There are essentially no firearms in NJ so there are already very few firearm deaths. This bill is just window dressing to make people feel good.
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@Bobotheclown--
I believe NJ may now be tougher than CA. Our dopey governor just redefined an assault weapon as a semi auto with a magazine of 6 rounds or more. Down from 15 or more.
Federal laws regulating the storage of guns have precedence. Our War with France was entirely at sea, but we feared a French invasion of New York City. The federal government, much of which still consisted of Founding Fathers, ordered every able bodied adult male (many of whom today would be considered children) to have a rifle, musket or shotgun and a specified supply of powder and shot, and every head of household to additionally have a pistol and supplies for it. It was realized that many of these civilians were not trained in the manual of arms, so it was ordered that the guns be stored loaded. This was a major decision, since eighteenth century gunpowder was very corrosive. Also, some of these loaded weapons were fired, and not against the French. The threat receded and the federal government ordered that citizens in New York store their guns unloaded.
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Thank you for this, but DUH! safety advocates have been saying this a long time, not just focusing on sales. Growing up in ALaska, tragically, almost everyone knows someone who was accidentally killed or seriously injured, usually when kids find and play with a gun. It’s seriously mental NOT to regulate this. A few weeks ago a first grader showed up at school with a gun. Incredibly, this is not uncommon. It’s completely negligent as a society to be complacent with this issue.
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@Brooke Dudley
It would not be hard to build a positive safety into a firearm such that every time the gun is set down the safety is engaged. It is not hard to develop safety switches that are hard for a child to operate but that are easy for an adult. This would save hundreds of children's lives every year and are what guns would look like by now if the "market" was left alone to produce what the buyers need. Since firearms became a political football no safety designs have been able to be produced. We are living with firearm designs that are fifty years out of date. Thank you NRA.
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Yes! And in many cases, while people could be charged with negligence, they aren't. We must also insist that existing laws are actually enforced.
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Why can’t someone, Jonny Ives for example, design a gun lock that can (only) be unlocked with a thumbprint?
Or even better a gun that can only be used by its owner?
And why doesn’t the biggest purchaser of guns insist on these safety features in all the guns that it buys. That would be US governments.
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@Thomas This idea has been brought up by many safety advocates as a logical way to prevent unauthorized gun use and catastrophes. The firearms industry and NRA (same thing?) has opposed any such firearms “restrictions”, and made it impossible to be seriously pursued.
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@Elewisma And the NRA/state sporting/firearms organizations have pressured gun stores that sell "smart guns" to stop selling them or be boycotted
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@Thomas Print locks don't always work.Many people who do manual labor have diminished prints ,they don't grow back.Oil, lotion water ect. will stop the activation of a print lock,then you could have a lot of other types of litigation.
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Encouraging safe firearm storage will only work if there are criminal and/or civil penalties for not complying. Parents who leave a loaded firearm out negligently need to know that jail time will be mandated if their sloppiness result in a death.
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@Steven T What??? You think the threat of jail time is more of a disincentive than the threat of dead kids?
I have a better idea tell them that their crime will result in them losing their right to bear arms.
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@Thomas
Excellent idea!
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Logically it must follow that safe-storage laws would result in a reduction in school shootings since so many of them are carried out by students who shouldn't have access to guns in the first place.
While I'm a gun owner who strongly opposes restrictions on firearms for law-abiding adults, I believe parents and guardians who allow minors to have access to a gun should be held both criminally and civilly liable for their actions. There are many types of gun safes that can allow storage of a loaded gun and quick access in an emergency. If you can afford the gun, you can afford the safe.
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Thank you
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@Richard H. Duggan
I'm not so sure. A reliable bedside thumbprint safe is like $300-400. Isn't mandating expensive safe storage stuff in order to exercise an individual right equivalent to, you know, like a poll tax?
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@Basil Youngfree
No, it's not. Given what a good firearm costs, that additional finger code safe attached to the bedframe is negligible. Besides, some cost less that $80. Personally, I've kept all my firearms for years in a 400 lb stand up safe. I don't believe in the zombie apocalypse.
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