If this administration can “legally” choose to separate asylum seekers from their children at the border, and then shackle and handcuff the children while bringing them to the courtrooms, this too should be the case for officials or anyone who does not comply with Congressional oversight of the executive branch...!
Docking their pay and fines are not enough.
4
Practically, checks and balances only exist, if POTUS cooperates. There is no enforcement power vested in Congress.
What we have is a constitutionally sanctioned, autocracy, emperor or whatever you want to call it. Constitution revered for a couple of centuries is proven to be naive.
All you need is a rogue president supported by equally rouge legislators. Isn't this how dicatorships com into existence?
3
This decision is not about speed or what it would look like to have the Attorney General arrested in handcuffs. If that is what it takes, that is what it takes. I object to the Times saying "The Democrats" should do this or that. This is a matter of the House of Representatives, not just one party, maintaining its Constitutional check. So Nancy, put on your big girl dress and do what you gotta do. If Barr is this arrogant and defiant of the Constitution, ask him what color does he want for his handcuffs?
3
“no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs.”
WHY NOT?!
5
Stop hand wringing and start the impeachment process. Of course the 2020 election is critical. So is preserving the constitution. Get off the pot, Nancy, and get going with it already!
1
IMHO Democrats should go ahead and use as many "weapons" as possible to dethrone Mr. Trump. He is a dangerous person, clearly unfit to be President of USA.
It is a no-brainer – if Democrats fail to do everything necessary to get rid of this buffoon, history will have no mercy.
“Courage is the first virtue that makes all other virtues possible.”
Aristotle
2
NYT has been a material contributor to the dog & pony show that is the current fad in Neoliberal politics, where you go nuts over the president's personality or peculiarities, so that you don't have to give time to the progressive challenge to Neoliberalism. The Russia hoax was the straw that broke the back of American media's political sanity, now the NYT thinks it can step in and play wise advisor? Not a chance. Btw I voted for Clinton in NH, where it mattered, not in NY or California where a few votes were meaningless.
2
Democrats are so completely detached from reality at this point. Impeach Trump and, with the economy as good as it is, you guarantee his re-election.
So have your temper tantrum. You’ve been looking for an excuse to impeach him since he had the nerve to defeat the venal and duplicitous HRC.
3
Terrified of Trumps slow moving coop.
1
Republicans wouldn't hesitate to use the power of inherent contempt and arrest people. Democrats, on the other hand, don't have principles or guts.
I am sick and tired of the people of this country being played for fools by this clown of a president!
In our schools here in Oregon more and more kids are having issues at home or no home at all. Disruption in the classroom is getting worse. To me this is a sign that our economy is not working for many households no matter what the liar in chief says.
The world is a mess with war, injustice, global warming and so much more. We are not looked to for answers in the world as we once were . We are a laughing stock.
This administration must go!
6
"Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House...pronounced the United States to be in a 'constitutional crisis.'"
And what do the editors of the New York Times think of her statement? They don't really say, which is very strange, and highly unsatisfactory. Most of the column consists of advice to the House Democrats as to what they should and shouldn't do. But the editors themselves never quite answer the question, "Do about what?"
If we are in a constitutional crisis, shouldn't the editors say so forthrightly, and go on to set forth the nature and key details of that crisis? Instead they fudge the question, and go to inside-baseball political strategy. Most strange.
5
In the NYTs June 2012 Editorial regarding the contempt vote on Eric Holder, you wrote that this vote was '...was a shameful exercise in political gamesmanship', even though 17 Democrats voted in support.
Unsurprisingly, you fail to see the hypocrisy in today's editorial.
4
Reading the comments here one would think we are talking about two different presidents. One is a saintly victim of bitter losers. The other is a corrupt lying despot. Believing what you want to believe is dangerous. It seems that facts mean nothing.
2
While it is fair to say that inherent contempt and handcuffs are norms not been used since the 1930s, it's also fair to say that the level of Executive obstruction we're seeing now is unprecedented in the history of our Republic and quite anathema to its norms.
Old norms are better than new exceptions.
2
"no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice"
I do. This is World War Trump. The lofty stature of Barr's office has nothing to do with the man. The man is flaunting the subpoena. He should be dealt with like any other man that breaks the law.
The idea that people in offices of fiduciary obligations should be admonished with restraint is completely out of proportion to the damage they do when they choose to undermine the rule of law. They do not deserve any deference with respect to the application of the law. Their apostasy is a direct threat to the integrity of the rule of law and sets a profoundly dangerous precedent.
I absolutely expect that if Barr refuses to comply that he be summarily arrested and dealt with the maximum severity that the law allows. We are in a fight to preserve the bulwark of our democracy that is being so cavalierly undermined and treated like dirt. "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice." BG
164
@J.I.M. I used to not think this, but but over the last year I have changed my thinking. The Republican's have no shame or restraint and are unable to govern.
When Obama took office he did not investigate the previous administrations crimes, but tried to clean up their mess of two wars and one financial crisis. All McConnell was interested in was making him a one-term President. Not helping the country dig out of the hole Republicans dug for us.
I used to to think logic and compromise would win the day. But given a time when our country needed us to come together to stand against the Russian cyber attack on our election, the Republican's (McConnell) could not bring himself to put country over party. They only want power.
It is a war for our democracy.
90
@J.I.M.
When nearly an entire political party is in league to intentionally or inadvertently destroy the underpinnings
of the rule of law, defies efforts to correct that with evermore flaunting of our democracy, that all needs to be taken into consideration for what it is and as such, what the stakes are for the rest of the nation.
7
@JRH. People, people, people, don’t you people don’t you see that Trump is trying to befuddle, not only his followers but those who oppose him. If you spend your time trying to decipher what he said. You will miss the opportunity to see what he does. And that ain’t good.
4
Commenters are painting too fierce and fearsome an image of the two-bit con-man known as Trump, who became a disciple of the malevolent Roy Cohn, chief counsel to the infamous Joseph McCarthy.
Trump barks and threatens and spasms, but he has folded many times. And he'll fold again. [He's actually a terrible businessman and has unutterably terrible judgment.]
Continue with the investigations. Records and documents turn up, and will turn up—until it's fold time.
3
Why is the New York Times valuing stability over justice? It is unconscionable to not support impeachment at this point, and I am absolutely flabbergasted that the Times can stand by and enable the destruction of American democracy. This will not end until someone stands up, and if we can't count on the Paper of Record to defend us, who can we count on?
When Mussolini took power in Italy, it would have been practically impossible to remove him from office. Wouldn't you at least try? How can you live with yourself if you don't?
The Editorial Board may be okay with the erosion of democracy so long as people don't get too upset and it takes long enough, but we are not.
Please, please, please, for the love of all the gods of men, help us end this madness. If all you've got is trusting Republican judges and hoping to win over Republican "moderates", you don't have anything at all.
Impeach.
“There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts.” And there you have it. Yet at the top of this editorial, the Times dismisses any enforcement action regarding “inherent contempt” as little better than a political “stunt.” Wake up. Look around you. Know with whom you’re dealing here. It may well come to a police or military action to remove this cancer from the White House, equivocate as you may.
32
Commenters are painting too fierce and fearsome an image of the two-bit con-man known as Trump, who became a disciple of the malevolent Roy Cohn, chief counsel to the infamous Joseph McCarthy.
Trump barks and threatens and spasms and gesticulates, but he has folded many times. And he'll fold again. [He's actually a terrible businessman and has unutterably terrible judgment.]
Continue with the investigations. Records and documents turn up, and will turn up—until it's fold time.
2
This is always what republicans have wanted - no government
They hate it so much they would all sell out to the Russian enemy to get what they want
They are a pox
3
The editors opine, "no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs." Why not? This is exactly the kind of querulous garbage that has enabled Trump to get this far without having ever been seriously challenged by anyone working for this newspaper.
Rely on the courts? Why? The Republicans effectively castrated Obama so they could install a totally biased Supreme Court majority for the next few decades. What makes the editors think that anything like justice is to be expected in the courts? This is just cowardice and a totally addled adherence to "propriety" from the idiots in charge.
Of course Barr should be arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms. What exactly has changed since 1935 to make that process in any way invalid. The radical nature of Trump's attack on the core of American democracy is exactly what makes this process so vital and necessary today. "So you want to defy the legal authority of Congress? Well, we can fix that!"
Whatever is coming - and it is going to be epic and catastrophic - in the final showdown between Trump and his acolytes and whatever Americans finally decide to make a stand for democracy - the primary blame should be laid at the feet of the idiots who published editorial after editorial like this in the face of the insanity of Trump.
My father's generation killed tens of millions of people to defend democracy. The editors think arresting one man would be excessive.
1
The Democrats are proposing to hold the Attorney General in contempt for refusing to violate the law. They are insisting that he violate the law, that he compromise the confidentiality of classified and grand jury information, and that he violate long-standing policies that protect the privacy rights of innocent persons caught up in a federal investigation. The constitutional crisis is being created by the Democrats. The Democratic Party is the party of lawlessness and the cynical abuse of power.
2
Haven’t most, if not all, of these people already been under surveillance (can’t say spying) and questioned already?
1
there really is no precedent, modern or antique, for a presidency like Trump's. the litany of his dishonesty, foolishness, and ineptness, and his overweaning imperiousness has no historical parallel and does not need to be called out here (especially given the inadequate number of characters the Times allows per comment). this President's behavior calls for bold and perhaps unprecedented actions in defense of our Constitution and especially the separation of powers. Barr and many of Trump's loyal toadies believe he is a king, answerable to no one. it is up to Congress and the courts to prove otherwise. don't waste time on something as silly and irrelevant as fines or withholding salaries for the multimillionaires and billionaires Trump has packed into his cabinet. get serious, but don't fall into the impeachment trap! ther is plenty of guilt to go around.
This editorial is, as usual, disingenuous at best.
As a good faith gesture, I will concede the point with regard to President Trump's instructions to Don McGahn not to comply with the congressional subpoenas. I believe that Trump should encourage McGahn to cooperate fully and hope he will ultimately do so.
However, this absurd move to hold Attorney General Barr in contempt for not releasing "an unedited version of the Mueller report" is complete hogwash. As Jack Crowe at the National Review correctly points out, Barr has already made every word in Volume II of the Mueller Report available to the top Democrats in Congress with the exception of those redactions that were made to protect grand jury testimony. Were Barr to allow any member of Congress to see the report without those miniscule grand jury-related redactions (two full lines and seven partial lines), he would be violating federal law.
Of course Pelosi and the Congressional Democrats know this (as does this editorial board). Shame on them (and shame on you) for such blatant intellectual dishonesty.
2
You cannot ignore a subpoena. No matter who you are.
2
@Kay Johnson Which is precisely why I voiced my agreement with the editorial board with regard to Don McGahn.
Not only will the Trump administration ignore subpoenas, they will ignore a Supreme Court ruling. Guaranteed.
1
Donnie has put two more radical right-wing, political activists on the Supreme Court, now making the Court a radically right-wing, politically activist Court for at least a generation. The claim they are originalists, but they will ignore what the Founders wrote about the Congress would be a check on the executive branch. They will back Trump all the way, unless Roberts cares about his legacy. In the end, they are politicians in black robes, so don't count on it.
I want to again "thank" the Jill Stein voters, the Bernie Bros, and those "progressives" who just couldn't vote for the devil woman for helping elect Trump. If you divide the Democratic Party again, we'll end up with Trump or another Republican for another four years.
I find it interesting that the same Trump party line gets repeated over and over, almost in the same words. "Go ahead, make my day. Impeach Trump and it will guarantee his re-election." There are some genuine Trumpies in this column but the repetition of the same words and phrases makes me suspect not actual Trumpies but systematic trolls. It also makes me think, are they talking us into playing their game? They did it with the relentless attack on Hillary; many Democrats ended up buying their lies and going very tepid on a very worthy Presidential candidate. That's the way the Big Lie works: just repeat it often enough and eventually even your adversary starts to believe it. Maybe this "go ahead, make my day" approach is telling us, in fact, that they are really afraid of impeachment, and that its leading to a Trump victory in 2020 is anything but a foregone conclusion. Is their own polling telling them something different? What would a craven and treasonous Senate rejection of the impeachment due to energize OUR base? Maybe a lot.
1
Mr. Chief Justice John Marshall, in Marbury v. Madison was able to write an opinion that slapped the President in such a way that he could not resist. I can not imagine such a resolution today.
Mr. Trump and company appear to be set on a course that supposes that there will ultimately be a civil insurrection against his enemies. He assumes that the vast horde of NRA members in red, gun toting states will back him with force of arms.
First of all, I think that unlikely. Second, the single message ingrained in members of the military is obedience to law. It seems inconceivable that they would take up arms to support a president who so flagrantly violated the law. Finally, the ble states have the only seriously disciplined and managed law enforcement units in the country. Could any ragamuffin white power group stand up to a serious assault by the 36,000 strong NYPD and other such blue state units?
1
As long as Republicans in Congress goes along with the President’s actions this will continue. Simple as that. This is not just the problem of one man’s behavior, but that of an entire political party.
58
@Steven Ahlgren
Oh dear. I can see it is the GOP at large, as a 'Party' - but a more trenchant view would focus on just one man. Mitch McConnell.
History will have heaps to say about him and his contempible chicanery as an unconscionable control freak.
He will never escape the unending infamy of stonewalling even a submission re Merrick Garland.
4
If the Democrats hesitate to hold the administration and Republican majority in the Senate honor bound to the Constitution because they fear "riling up Trump's base" then all is lost. There is no certain outcome if they move to impeach, but there certainly is if they don't.
81
The overriding priority is that Trump not be re-elected as president. Given the unfortunate reality that the contemporary Republican party is a moral black hole, barring a new nuclear bombshell disclosure impeachment would be a politically hazardous dead end. I'm glad the editorial does not propose it but rather implies that it is a Trump trap for the Democrats.
Let Trump be repudiated at the ballot box and take many of his disgraced Republican enablers down with him.
2
Why is everyone so surprised by the reluctance of Congressional Republicans to do anything about Trump? They have obstructed reasonable government by Democrats for many years. Ever since Newt Gingrich turned away from civility, they have found every possible avenue of nastiness to thwart good government. When Richard Nixon powered his way to an election, honest Republicans saw the danger and worked with Democrats to end it. The honest Republicans have left government, apparently. And we are left with self-righteous, me-first Congressional cowards. They will not act for the people who elected them. They are concerned with party first and foremost no matter what unfit president carries their banner.
3
All this was totally predictable.
What has Donald Trump done all his life? Run his businesses into the ground, then accept financial bail outs from shady characters and foreign operatives. When challenged he drags his adversaries through the courts for years wearing them down.
Who cares if he always loses, he's still standing on his feet ready for another scam.
I think Speaker Pelosi is correct in saying that the President is "baiting them to impeach him"... if the procedure of impeachment gets through the House, and then fizzles in the Senate (just before the 2020 elections) then Trump can claim IMMUNITY, which is what he'll use to be re-elected. This was never about laws, because a narcissist is a low unto himself. It has always been about being the center of attention.
1
Attorney Genera William Barr’s noncompliance with a congressional subpoena is not a crisis, and it is not unprecedented, In 2012, Congress held Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt when he refused to comply with a subpoena to provide documents and information related to the “Fast and Furious” programs. It is just a matter for litigation in federal court.
The judiciary will decide in the Barr case, just as it did in the Holder case. Congress should wait for the litigation to run its course, just as it did in the Holder case.
1
In the Holder case, the Republican Congress said that the president cannot withhold documents requested by Congress in an investigation. In the Mueller case the Republicans are supporting the President's withholding of documents.
In the Fast and Furious program investigation, a program starred under Bush, the Arizona AJ asked that the documents be withheld. The investigation was about how the program, allowing guns to be used as bait to uncover criminal gunrunning gangs, was being administrated by the government. I am not clear as to why executive privilege was invoked other than a claim that executive power was being diminished. In the Fast and Furious contempt case, actually just settled yesterday in court with both partied withdrawing, Holder was cleared of wrongdoing in the administration of the program, admittedly poorly run stupid idea program, by the DOJ inspector general.
Barr's case is different. He is in contempt for refusing to testify before Congress and for refusing to provide full disclosure of a report, that the DOJ instigated, on the President's personal conduct. There is no privilege when it comes to obstruction of Justice and canoodling with the enemy.
4
The conservative argument against impeachment seems to hinge on two misguided claims. First and foremost is the assertion that Trump is somehow responsible for the good economy, which is actually a result of Obama's trend line, and so they claim impeachment would harm the economy. Second is a lame sort of apology which goes something like this, "Trump is just being Trump. He got license from his voters to do as he pleases and the critics have no standing to complain because they lost." These defenses are pathetic enough, but they are also crumbling. Will they disintegrate fast enough to save civilization?
1
I think it was Trevor Noah who said that Trump is like a black light. He's revealing every hole and weakness in the current system.
2
Why is Trump’s flouting of Congress a problem for the Democrats to solve?
This is an American issue. Where are the Congressional Republicans? Do they get a pass because Trump has an (R) by his name?
2
The red gorilla in the room is the rabid partisanship of the GOP -- if a Democratic president had done an iota of what Trump's done (or even if they hadn't done a thing), the GOP would have been howling for that Democrat's impeachment. Full-on war.
But, because a Republican is in power, the GOP is actively enabling and protecting Trump, regardless of the cost to our country.
Whether or not Trump is called into account for his misdeeds, the GOP's complicity in this mess will continue and not be forgotten.
1
We are all supposed to be equal under the law.
If I ignored a subpoena, I would go to jail.
If the D o J won’t enforce the contempt then bring on the Sargent at Arms.
2
you might also expect a serious fine. but, if you had your laundry monogram your clothes to read "Don Trump, Jr.", all those pesky consequences would evaporate as the morning dew.
1
The Democrats have manufactured this constitutional crisis as they continue to investigate Trump for little or no apparent reason. It is helping Trump. Keep pounding and watch Trump's approval rating go up again. Focus on the next election. Set the agenda for 2020. Stop fighting the last election. There is not enough for impeachment but there is certainly enough to make the Democrats the ultimate party of whiners. It is not the good fight if you lose in 2020.
2
Looks like our democracy is done for.
If trump persists in defying sub poenas, could the House bring itself to hold him in inherent contempt (especially if he is in contempt of a SCOTUS ruling)? I am not a lawyer, but the truth of the charge is evident on its face. Could the House send the Sergeant-at-arms with a squad of federal marshals to take trump into custody, asking the secret service to stand down? Worth a try. But the SS would undoubtedly refuse.
I wonder whether a compromise could be worked out whereby trump and say 6-10 armed SS agents could be held in comfortable but secure quarters together in some undisclosed location, secure enough to thwart a jail break. I am not saying Guantanamo, but surely Dick Cheney would have many suggestions.
This is mostly meant as snark, but it might make the SS amenable if public outrage against trump made it difficult to keep him safe in public.
1
There is though a little light at the end of the tunnel vision of the Trump administration's crooked politics and policies, and that is the NY State general assembly turning the tax returns of the mobster-like family boss over to Congress and making them public.
It gets yet a bit brighter because Deutsche Bank - the preferred piggy bank by Trump after Wall Street shunned him - is officially said to co-operated with US prosecutors.
2
With every obstructive move that Trump and his minions make it becomes painfully obvious that Trump has got to go, and as soon as possible!
2
If Congress needs any more contempt, just let me know.
I have plenty to spare.
2
Donald Trump hates being attacked, but he also expects to be attacked, and doesn't shy away from acting in ways that guarantee that he'll be attacked. While in the private sector, he engaged in a very great number of lawsuits. It's clear that he sees suing and being sued as being business as normal. I believe that, to him, being impeached is just a case of being sued by his opponents. Of course he'll hate it, should it happen, but I think he'll consider it a cost of doing business. He won't see it as an embarrassment, much less a disgrace. All he'll care about is "winning", in this case meaning not being convicted. As he and we know, there's nothing in the record so far that would cause any number of Republican senators to vote to convict him. I have trouble imagining what any such thing would be, and I think that President Trump has trouble imagining any such thing, either. For him, impeachment is likely to feel like an opportunity to defeat his enemies. It'll hurt while it lasts, but, oh, how good it'll feel afterwards!
This has become a Republican dictatorship. It could eventually go to guns, either on the dictatorial side with a compliant military enforcing his executive fiats, or on the popular side, where people fight to take back the democracy that Trump is destroying. This crisis will worsen and is why the 2nd Amendment was written. It's ironic that Democrats are so anti-gun. As this devolves, they are the ones who are likely to need them the most. How else do they see a solution--right now they are just all talk, as Trump thumbs his nose at the representatives of the people in the House.
I disagree with this editorial, and believe that the Democrats should use every weapon at their disposal, including inherent contempt. Perhaps I think the situation is more dire than the editors do.
1
I love the "withhold pay" rule.
To my trump voters:
We all get it...you vote for disorganized government, but need your SS to survive on. Less taxes? Don't complain about terrible EMT responses or roads being in need of repair anymore...deal?
But ignoring subpoenas? You are only prolonging the inevitable. The sergeant at arms is available.
You can't say we didn't warn you about this.
Now, let's stop the paychecks immediately for those who feel entitled to ignore MY congress. Call your rep and tell them!
Oh, one more thing? Congress is an equal branch, ask Hillary...she showed up and almost fell asleep!
What are they hiding?
1
Congress should "follow the money" and not get distracted by every political rabbit hole. What are the chances Mr. Trump did not submit any false information on any of his tax returns or loan applications or other legal documents? I'd say zero chance. Remember how the Feds got Al Capone, tax evasion, no viable means of support.
We must face the facts. Our leader is a contemptible loathsome individual who has absolutely no regard for any law except his own. H.G. Wells wrote a story many many years ago where an ordinary man was given the power to do anything he wanted. He finally overstepped his bounds when he tried to stop the earth from turning. His power was taken away. The only way to stop our leader is to take away his power. I hope people understand this in the next election....I hope it is not too late for us to reclaim our country by the next election.
1
When America's Fondling Fathers fund their Power Struggles by selling indulgences like popes do, We the People pay dearly.
DONALD JUDAS TRUMP is unable or unwilling to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution, or ratified international
treaties like the Refugee Act. Hundreds of patriots reported fraud and waste, and war crimes done on behalf of us all. Suing for peace is safe and effective. Americans are hungry for peace and prosperity. Bring out troops home, then quit.
Trump is setting a precedent indeed along with his incomparable reprehensible actions, behavior, illegalities and flouting by tweeting or words, surely a new low for anyone, much less a president. New deadline: May 21, for McGahn's due date before Nadler's committee in the house. We're already past the low water mark for impeachment possibilities. I am ready to begin them now, certainly after this new date.
The Democrats in the House need to get started on impeachment hearings and they need to do it now!
No more pussyfooting around. He is inflicting far too much damage on a daily basis.
What is becoming more and more obvious is the outright call for a civil war by the upset Democrat leadership.
They have spent the last 2 years subverting our democracy with misinformation and unfounded allegations with the goal to disenfranchise the electorate.
Unsupported claims that the Russian government CONTROLLED the outcome of the 2016 Presidential election are nothing more that a traitorous effort to delegitimize our democracy.
Great, the Trump wrecking ball illustration to "Constitutional Collision Course"! And the president is "fighting all the subpoenas", Trump said last night. It took 26 months from Watergate break-in (June, 1972) till President Nixon's resignation in August, 1974 for the Watergate Hearings to bear the poison fruit of the Nixon Presidency.
Can we afford 2 more years of litigation by Trump against the Democratic House till contempt morphs into impeachment? Not bloody likely. Where's the meat? Show us the precedent this or last century of a president defying both the Congress and the Courts. Time is of the essence as Democracy withers.
People have gone to prison for Contempt of Congress.
Nobody in the United States, not Mnuchin, not Barr, not Trump is above the law. Nobody.
Why not employ “inherent contempt” powers to put Barr in handcuffs for breaking the law? Why not use the power that our laws provide instead of always surrendering? Barr in handcuffs would also be must-see TV, while showing what glass chins these people have.
1
I'd love to see the House sergeant-at-arms dispatched to drag
Barr--in handcuffs--from the DOJ. The image alone would be in running for the photo of the year award. It's legal, and it's time. Do it.
1
Oh, the most egregious con man to ever inhabit the White House is tearing apart the social contract we have and expect with our governmental leaders?
Who’d have thought?
Why on earth would anyone not expect El Trumpo to defy the courts as he has done to Congress. Equal treatment for equal branches of government, right? It appears that inherent contempt is in fact the only practical option left on the table.
Arguably, we might employ similar powers of the courts jointly with those of Congress since it appears we may need many, many sets of handcuffs for the White House sleaze club.
We've been in a slow-moving constitutional crisis ever since the FBI realized that the Russians were involved in Trump's campaign, which is to say, even before the election and before we knew about it. At this point our situation is worse than that of a constitutional crisis. Trump and the Republicans are moving into the end game of the classic seizure of power in a democracy, using the constitution and laws of a country to destroy those very things. It's a time-honored approach, of which Steve Bannon is the contemporary prophet, that goes back at least to Mussolini and has had such "distinguished" practitioners as Hitler and Putin, and such lesser ones as Chavez and Mugabe. It works best in democracies that are either young or corrupt or both; ours is in the latter category. Other major practitioners today include Orban and Erdogan. Trump and his associates are truly evil people, and so are most the Congressional Republicans. A few of the latter are perhaps not evil but just very weak and unwilling to buck Mitch and the base. Either way, our situation is dire. I hope we can pull out of this tailspin. I am not optimistic.
Yes Trump is daring the Dems to impeach him so take him up on it and DO IT!
1
This is no longer a "political battle." It is a right-wing fascistic power grab and must be defeated or we will soon find ourselves living under a Dictatorship of the Oligarchs.
Quite frankly I would love to see Bar and Trump dragged out of their offices in hand cuffs.
Democrats: On behalf of those of us who care about our Constitution and the future of democracy in this country, thee we beseech that you vote to impeach.
This "president" can be taken down but it must be done carefully.
"no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs."
I do. I see no reason that this shouldn't be done.
As well as defunding his office and anywhere else defunding can be applied.
If Paul Ryan could call the Capital Police to arrest protesters at his offices Nancy Pelosi can call them to arrest a real law breaker.
The Democrats do not need to and should not light the fire that impeachment proceedings would ignite. A fire that would inflame Trump's base and which Trump is just waiting to pour gas on at unending rallys all over the country. And a fire Lndsey Graham and his fellow Republicans in control of the Senate would allow to burn for as long as possible to alienate as many as possible before putting it out. The Democdats should continue their investigations, subpoena witnesses and documents, hold those who refuse to comply in contempt of Congress, levy a financial penalty of $2,500.00 per day for failure to comply with the subpoena, and file suit after a week to collect the amount then due (and any additions thereto until paid) from all those Trump has ordered not to comply with Congress. When those in non-compliance have to start suffering the consequences of their actions (while Trump suffers nothing and offers them nothing), perhaps the realization of what they are doing, for whom, and how history will treat them, will convince them to comply with Congress. On Wednesday, Federal Judge Amy Berman Jackson ordered the Justice Department to turn over to the Court, by Monday, unredacted sections of Mueller's report that relate to Republican operative Roger Stone, sending a message to Trump and everyone else participating in Trump's obstructive refusals to comply with Congress, how quickly justice is about to be served to them.
They should think about that.
The Democrats problem is that they have not effectively formulated a strategy to build support for impeachment. Trump, who is a cunning strategist, has a method to his defiance. He used the Mueller’s report and the Barr defense brief to declare the legal battle over- implying that the Democrats only interest is political.
My suggested strategy is for the Dems to start an infowar. Pelosi needs to make a speech to be televised stating that impeachment hearings will be commenced, the reasons why, and why their demands for documents is relevant. She should outline 3 critical areas: lawless obstructive behavior described in the Mueller report; security risks posed by Trump’s granting clearances despite professional objectives, private meetings between
Kushner, Israel’s, Saudis and others; self dealing and whether our foreign policy is manipulated by interests Trump or his family seek to profit from. These issues are a threat to the conduct of our Democracy; she should detail why certain documentation is being sought.
In the same speech she should outline a legislative agenda that will be concurrently undertaken by the House. Healthcare, and the need to rescue and strengthen Obamacare; climate change, and what immediate steps should be taken, and long term planning; infrastructure planning, detailing priority projects, cost and sources of funding; immigration reform, which would include ways to deal with the migration crisis; and fair tax reform.
Democrats still haven’t understood why their chosen candidate cited by former Pres. Obama as the “best prepared ever” failed to defeat an upstart. And they similarly fail to understand the public wants Democrats to do what they were elected to do - the nation’s business. Not pursue an endless replay to reverse 2016.
Surely that’s not the path to victory in 2020.
1
@Peter I Berman: Defying regulations, James Comey used Anthony Weiner's computer to creep people out about Hillary the week before the election.
Trump is basically saying, " Make me" to the demands Congress is presenting him with. I'm really at a loss (about what can be done about Trump's defiance). I mean, he's the President and a good many people support him. There comes a point when force becomes the only thing one has left to use in the face of blatant defiance. Are we at that point? I'm starting to wonder how many
so called deadlines can be announced before they become completely meaningless.
The trouble for Democrats is that they have nothing like Conservative media which creates it own facts and narratives. Instead, the rest of us are left with Mainstream media with its desire for balance and commitment to report the world as it really is. So, on any given issue, regardless of the facts or logic, the pull will always be to the hard right. As we've seen over the years, weapons of mass destruction will lurk in Iraq, John Kerry will be a Vietnam coward while Bush a patriot, Obama will be born in a foreign country, climate science will be a hoax - the list goes on.
Whoever runs against Trump better be ready to run against Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and FOX because Conservative media is now the real power center in contemporary America.
1
@Henry Crawford: Reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine too. That man was poisonous.
1
my grandfather used to say : be careful what you wish for. you might get it.
in my opinion, it's time for congress to act. the problem is, republican members of congress have abandoned their oaths of office, as demonstrated in the barr contempt of congress vote. unless the real smoking gun is found, and maybe even no then, it is unlikely the senate would reach the necessary votes to remove the president.
finding the smoking gun could prove difficult. there's too much smoke to see anything.
news reports suggest the nation has become accustomed to the lies and now just let's them pass. don't count me among that group. it's sickening, but writing my representatives helps me feel better. what i find disgusting is that some senators and representatives won't accept email from people outside their districts. graham, jordan, kennedy, grassley, among others. i need to use the old fashioned us mail to let them know my opinion. i haven't heard back from any of them.
2
"Of course, if the president decides to flout any of the court rulings, the country could find itself in a deeper constitutional crisis. "
Trump and his party have no regard for the constitution. Power is their only goal. The Rule of Law is an annoyance that can be brushed aside.
Of course they're going to flout the court and boast about it when they do it.
1
At what point will the Dems have the courage to move forward with Impeachment? If Mueller does not testify when he is supposed to, it should be the immediate response. Americans need to hit the streets if this goes on too much longer without a truly effective response to the crisis at hand. Every day we see our Democrocy being weakened and at some point, we will not recover. VOTE. If necessary, peaceful protest by those who care about our Democrocy surviving should happen, while we still have that right. I am not sure why we are being so patient. I am afraid for our future. I am afraid for my children's future. I do not understand why those who support this admin aren't also.
2
Democratic leaders are struggling because they've worked within a constitutional framework and Republicans haven't. Asking what options Dems have now is like asking what's outside the universe.
What precisely is the crisis? What is not working other than a handful of Democrat Pols not doing anything else except constant whining about not getting their way. If Pelosi, Nadler, et al, claim space aliens have landed does that make it true? Is there really a Constitutional Crisis just because they say so. The United States has had previous Constitutional challenges and through the action of the Supreme Court (John Marshall comes to mind) matters got resolved.
There is a big difference between a Presidential campaign and a crisis. It is a time for cooler heads and more logic to rise to the fore.
2
The leaders of the Democratic Party are doing everything correct. Keep investigating Trump, his family and his cronies and at the same time have the house pass bills that the American people already support.
The house could impeach Trump but the republican senate would never convict. The democrats should put all their efforts into winning the 2020 election!
1
But when all is said and done, Trump must know that Mitch McConnell and the senate republican majority has his back on impeachment. I absolutely applaud efforts in congress to hold Trump and the administration accountable and I hope they can really turn up the heat through the courts, but unless senate republicans jump ship, the president will stonewall into the next election.
1
He knows until he knows not. Two words for you: Richard Nixon.
Even now, as we barely start to scratch the surface of the possibility of contempt, opinion is changing. If Trump continues his full court press, each defiance will have its effect, will lodge one more doubt in the mind of a supporter. Before long, the yeas will outnumber the nays.
1
My fear is Nancy Pelosi's fear that with Trump successfully defying those provisions of the constitution that give the legislative bodies the authority of oversite of the executive, Trump would also challenge those provisions stipulating elections and succession by refusing to surrender the presidential office and administrative bodies. What then, republicans?
1
The courts may very well decide that Congress is not entitled to these records in the absence of an impeachment hearing which is its clearly articulated oversight right. Pelosi's reliance on the courts could backfire with Trump and further empower executive privilege and the presidency in the future..
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Republicans already started a constitutional crisis when McConnell refused to let Obama do his job to nominate justices to the Supreme court.
Democrats are doing their jobs.
It's Republicans who are throwing out the rule of law.
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If there is no precedent, then the Democrats have the advantage. The word "crisis" opens the door to a wealth of creative problem-solving. An administration that turns their backs on Congress, the Courts, and the American people is obstructing justice, breaking the law, and thumbing their nose at the Constitution. It's time to bring in the artists, the creative, "think out of the box" people who are watching this 2.5 year drama unfold with lies, scandal, hush money, secrets and threats. These "out-of-the-box" problem solvers will come up with a strategy that is unprecedented, speedy, and one that restores the Constitution, our good names, and the business of a government which is to serve and protect the American people.
3
What is really needed is for the Supreme Court to perform an “intervention,” via ANNULLING the 2016 presidential election! I’m sure that Justice Clarence Thomas, from his Catholic catechism training is likely to be aware that annulment constitutes the perfect reverse time machine to UNDO with emergency rapidity to undo the almost catastrophic destruction wreaked by the Trump era. It already has established a precedence by its intervention with the Gore vs Bush year 2000 presidential election. Manipulation by Putin’s Russia and the Tea Party controlled state legislative bodies through voter suppression and extreme party gerrymandering have rendered the election results of highly questionable validity.
I fervently look forward to the day that the Republican Party goes by way of the long extinct Whig Party!
2
They're already floating the "Trump deserves two extra years" idea. Of course, for now they're saying it was just a joke. Will we be laughing when Trump acts and the GOP lets him get away with it? The obstruction, lawlessness, attacks on the media and undemocratic language (e.g., saying that the Mueller investigation was an illegal “coup” attempt) is a symptom of a much deeper, much graver problem that too many people (including most journalists) are still not calling out and are still not taking seriously enough: authoritarianism. We are seeing authoritarianism usurp our hard-fought democracy in real time, and years from now people will wonder why we didn't do more to stop it.
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@Aaron: The MO of every tyrant is the same: probe and feint, probe and feint, until the victims are lulled to inattention.
1
We're dealing with Trump here. A man who has lived his life, and created a thriving lifestyle, by skirting the law. Those that support and surround him are lost in a vortex of insider politics and personal ambition, and have full on lost perspective. The Democrats need to stand strong and know that they are authentic and have the law and truth on their side. This isn't about Trump, this is about our Country, and any last shreds of Constitutional respect, relevance and norms. Accountability is paramount and just.
5
Had the White House taken the position that they might have inadvertently crossed a line with accepting help from the Russians but they would now act to secure our elections going forward, public support for impeachment might be weak. But when they take the position that they can accept Russian help as they see fit, that they will continue to do so and that they will prevent oversight by all means available, including what others might call obstruction of justice, I think the public will support impeachment.
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Impeachment hearings should begin now. Why? Because the Constitution requires it—there is no escape clause for bad timing, bad weather or inconvenience.
As hundreds of former federal prosecutors said, Trump’s conduct would warrant criminal obstruction of justice charges if he were anyone other than president.
Assuming the House would vote to remove Trump from office, the Senate would try him. All senators would be on record as to whether or not he should be removed. Let their names go down in infamy, if they vote against removing him from office. Then, American voters can choose a decent president and senators with backbones, consciences and ethics.
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@Cheryl Ede: Only one third of the senators have to stand for election in 2020. The US system is extremely sticky. What other countries can do in one election takes more than six years in the US.
I've lived thru WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, the 60s revolution, Ronald Reagan's "Decade of Greed" in the 80s, into the 90s and beyond -- and -- but -- I'm NOT yet --- an extremist.
But now --- I see no other way but to begin dragging people like Barr, McConnell , Graham and any others who support Trump's amoral behavior into the Congressional jail according to the law.
Eventually childish Trump --- needs to be dragged away and locked up, like his former lawyer Michael Cohen.
Like any public school teacher/servant, Trump would have been fired in 2016 ---- after just one week on the job .
2
I think that Trump is clearly taunting House Democrats to impeach him because he sees it as an aid to his reelection. From what I can see there is nothing that he would not do if it helps him consolidate his authoritarian control over this country.
We have a wanna be dictator in the White House folks, so hang on, it only gets worse from here. Pelosi is already warning that impeachment could lead to Trump refusing to leave office even if he fails to win in 2020. So much for the US being a democracy.
@Jim Dickinson
I would not read much into statements like "Trump will not voluntarily leave". It is something to prepare for in case it happens, but it is not something to change one's course of action for in hopes of preventing it. Doing the latter allows a bad actor to manipulate the situation by threatening to not leave or promising to leave.
This is a time to "keep calm and carry on".
When the Mueller report flopped, the Democrats changed their strategy to making mountains out of mole hills.
They would fare better in the upcoming elections if they were to make a deal with Trump on border security and drug prices.
As of now they have no platform.
1
It didn’t flop, and the mountains look like molehills only next to still bigger mountains.
Trump claims exoneration, yet the report explicitly says otherwise. On the contrary, Mueller decided not to pursue an indictment he wouldn’t prosecute. He felt constrained in what he could look for, not in what he found.
Also: emoluments. Trump is very fond of money, so much so that he values it more than his reputation, else he would have sold his businesses to serve the American people. Why should anyone believe such a person is not subject to manipulation, blackmail, or bribery? Can you seriously say we have no right to know what financial ties he might have to Russia?
@Lee: We all await the pronouncements of Mitch McConnell regarding what the Senate will allow onto its legislative calendar. Do you have a clue?
Public opinion is not yet behind impeachment; in fact, it is still opposed in many areas, especially among moderate voters in the battleground states, who are key to the Democrats chances in 2020.
Nancy Pelosi is steering the correct, middle course. By means of ongoing investigations, she and her leadership team are trying to build public support for further actions against the president.
She understands full well that impeachment will not rid us of him. To the contrary, it’s certain rejection by the Senate will leave the Democrats looking inept and feckless, or worse—and could delay his departure four more years. Only a convincing Democratic win in 2020 will do the job.
1
"...no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs."
Why not? That would send the message that they were serious and that there were consequences for ignoring Congressional subpoenas.
8
When people habitually act like criminals, continuing to pretend that one is in a good-faith negotiation with them is a thinly-veiled surrender.
Once a few people can ignore subpoenas, everyone can. Most of these folks do not need their government paycheck, making docked pay a petty annoyance and nothing more.
While "no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs", at the end of the day that may be the only reasonable course. Avoiding personal embarrassment for people in lofty positions or the perception that Congress is being harsh are not the most important considerations.
2
Trump is convinced that McConnell's packed judiciary, up to and including SCOTUS will save him. He may be right, but woe unto him if he's wrong.
2
With so many republican judges in the court system, it may not be the safest course of action to get the desired effect, and a loss would adversely affect the Democrats enormously. A much more significant way to send a message of seriousness to the republicans and to compel change would be to have the attorney general arrested and thrown in jail.
2
The three branches of the federal government are not co-equal. They are ordered as described in the Constitution, Congress first, the executive second, and the judiciary last. The authority to supervise both the executive and judicial branches resides with Congress.
2
There is just one thing I cannot get over. The Democrats say they are fighting to have Barr release the full, unredacted Mueller Report. But AG Bill Barr already made that available to anyone on the committee that wanted to read it. I just wish that the Democrats would admit that they don't want what they ask for, because if they did, they would go read what they're asking for... which has been made available. Even Mueller agrees that there is no Collusion. Case closed. Whatever the Democrats continue to do on this non-thing is to their own detriment. Have at it.
2
@PJ ABC: The whole issue of "collusion" was just blowing smoke. We get nothing but deflection from this geyser of dissimulation administration.
What, Chairman Nadler can read the full report but cannot discuss it with anyone not even members of the Judicial Committee? That’ real helpful isn’t it.
@Jacob. No, Nadler should want to read the redacted portion to find out if he's making a huge mistake dying on the hill he's dying on. A reasonable person would read it, determine for themselves if it is worth the huge political price they are currently paying for trying to make it public, and then act or not. A reasonable person would not put Barr in contempt for following the law, and releasing the full report to the committee. If Barr does what congress wants, he would be breaking the law. But thankfully Nadler is not a reasonable person and found this nice hill on which to die. And Trump will get all the political benefit. It's just so unclear what positive thing can come from anything that congress is doing right now. And I mean positive from their own perspective! It just seems like serious harm to themselves. But have at it. I hope Trump keeps stonewalling, knowing there's nothing of serious consequence in the report anyway, so if the Democrats in congress actually get their way and force the full release, then they will look silly for having died on this hill to get the big nothingburger that is the Mueller report.
We repeat our comment made in 2018. In the Federalist Papers, Hamilton and Madison mention on more than one occasion "that, despite the care taken in preparing the Constitution, the system will only work if the government consists of men [sic] of wisdom and of good intention." Words can only describe so much, it's up to government officials, not of selfish interest, elected and otherwise, to interpret such words for the common good.
Are Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell "men of wisdom and of good intention." McConnell defied the Constitution by refusing to even hold hearings on President Obama's nominee to the Supreme Court. President Trump has defied, indeed totally ignored, the Constitution and the Congress as he chooses. What to do ?
My understanding is that the Courts can send people to jail, so I think that is the route, even if it takes a while. Of course, I doubt that will affect Trump's behavior, but the threat of jail might scare Barr and the other officials into submission to the rule of the people. In other words, the consummation of a jail sentence might take a year or more, but the threat of a future sentence is now.
@eclectico: The dishonesty of Republican use of language cannot be understated. Liberals liberate, conservatives conserve, and nihilists destroy everything they can.
how could it be? one party thinks it is a normal course, 'case closed'. the other party pretends it is a consitutional crisis and is at a loss because the president, the most powerful man on earth, defies all norms. in addition, the president is surounded by all 'yes men' defending him. even the court may favor the president. where is the crisis? the crisis is with the presidential form of democracy where the president has so much power. the other crisis is with GOP leaders not the conservative republicans. GOP leaders are deaf for the sake of their own interests. conservative republicans are musing it from the sideline forgetting such precedence will haunt the country in future and also the democratice principle which is being shaken by such negative inaction.
Yes, we have a constitutional crisis. Yes, Trump is daring the Democrats to impeach him, knowing full well he won't be convicted by the Senate. They shouldn't fall for the bait since this will work to get Trump reelected. The Democrats should proceed cautiously or else Trump will be reelected. They should concentrate on removing him from office in the 2020 presidential election. They should also concentrate on flipping the senate and keeping their majority in congress. I won't be able to take 4 more years of the lying con-man we have as the president.
@Chris I: The Constitutional crisis is the usurpation of the primacy of Congress by a renegade executive.
I agree with the people who suggest that democrats should focus on finding the right candidate for 2020. As outrageous as the behavior of the current occupant of the White House might be - the harm done to the rule of law (and I agree, it is severe) can be healed under a democratic majority in the senate and a democratic president. But under the given circumstances (esp. the structure of the electorate) nothing meaningful can be gained from impeachment proceedings except for formally ‘having done the right thing’ - which on it’s own will NOT heal the damage and might help Trump to cause even greater damage. ‘People taking to the streets’ is not going to happen. Friends - you have to focus on winning 2020.
Imagine a motorcycle gang going past two highway patrol vehicles at 100 miles per hour yelling, "We're breaking the law, ha, ha, ha-ha, ha." They would both take off in pursuit and soon be joined by eight others. Donald Trump is doing the same thing. The 1924 law that Congress is invoking says nothing about Congress having to prove legislative purpose, and in this case that purpose is implicit. Donald Trump is blatantly violating the law and forcing Congress to act, whether or not that is the popular thing to do.
5
Trump never stops until he is stopped. He intensifies and amplifies his destructive actions when questioned or held to account.
He's ramping up sabre rattling, and it's highly likely that he will ignite a global nuclear war if not stopped in the immediate near future.
We have no choice but to use every tool and lever of power the House has. Impeachment needs to happen now or it's quite possible there will not be a then.
I keep asking myself if positions were reversed, what would the Republicans do?
This is political war like the country has never seen at least in recent history. The Dems should pull out all stops and launch the political missiles at their disposal. Trump must be stopped. He is shredding the Constitution.
If the country falls apart as a result I could care less that unemployment is at an all time low.
203
@Len. Let's see, the Democrats changed the committee rules so he could be interogated by Dems Legal council. The Democrats want to do away with the Senate, they want to do away with the Electoral College, they want people campaigning IN prisons to allow prisoners votes, they want to keep encouraging illegal immigration and fraudulent asylum seeking, the list goes on. But you say Trump and his Admin are "shredding the constitution?" What, by not making public the full unredacted report that was made available to every person on the committee? If they want that report, why don't they go READ it. This president is doing everything in his power to uphold the constitution while the Democrats are constantly attempting to shred it.
4
@PJ ABC It's not in the Constitution that Presidents are free to ignore the law and requests of Congress. It's hard to accept that you actually believe Trump is attempting to uphold the Constitution while he thumbs his nose at the processes it established.
18
Pretending everything you say about what the Democrats want is true, how are those goals in any way a threat to the constitution?
If we could abolish the electoral college or reduce the role of the senate, we surely wouldn’t do so by congressional fiat. We’d amend the constitution, right? Surely you’re not suggesting that amending the constitution is shredding it.
If immigration is a problem because of Democrats, why was it not addressed by the Republican congress? They could have changed immigration law and funded the wall. I’m not aware of any immigration bill Democrats filibustered. Rather, one might conclude Republicans prefer an immigration problem to an immigration solution, the better to rile the base. Like abortion, only browner.
Meanwhile, Republicans subvert the rule of law at every turn. The citizenship question may well result in undercounts sufficient to change how many representatives some states have. Gerrymandering and voter suppression routinely result in minorities gaining majority control, as in Wisconsin and North Carolina. Felony disenfranchisement violates the rights of millions while elevating the power of voters where prisons are located, allocating them representation without representation. (Think about it.) In Florida, voters overturned felony disengagement at the ballot, and Republicans dependably thwarted the result by redefining what “completed their sentence” means.
13
With his own contemptuous defiance of the Congressional oversight authority and instructions to the Justice department officials to do so not only Trump has declared an all out war on the Congress but under the majoritarian partisan arrogance has virtually forced the country to give a serious look at the efficacy and relevance of the existing order of constitutional democratic governance in the US. For, the way Trump has dared the Congress to exercise oversight powers and flexing partisan political muscle in defiance of all the constitutional norms and ethical standards he has really forced a constitutional crisis which if not resolved within the existing scheme of constitutional power sharing and accountability might have long term consequences for the very future of democracy in the US.
2
Those of you who are assuming the 2020 elections can solve this malfeasance are ignoring an unsolved problem. We still do not know the extent of the Russian penetration of our voting system. The counterintelligence investigation is not complete.
Between the GOP and the Russians, voting irregularities of 2016 and 2018 went unaudited and unaddressed. Do we have adequate safety protocols in place? Have we addressed the malignant effects of targeted disinformation, including on social media platforms? From here it looks like the GOP would love a little more help next time too.
I think Nancy Pelosi’s sobriety is wise. But hearings and testimony must educate the electorate and pull them up to attention quickly. The constant lying has had a soporific effect. It’s so hard to admit when you’ve been conned.
2
The strongest constitutional case that Congress has for documents, financial records and compelling witness testimony is to open an impeachment inquiry. The House of Representatives must act forcefully and unambiguously to investigate in the most public manner possible the evident corruption. While Pelosi's political reluctance is worth considering, this president's actions no longer allow for such calculations. The American people must see their representatives pursue justice, vindicating that verifiable facts and the law still matter.
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@rdelrio. I love that no one feels the need to list any of Trump's wrongdoings anymore that require his removal. It's as if ALL the evidence for wrong doing is pointing in the opposite direction. But you can keep screaming at the clouds. I'm entertained by the 5 stages of grief being the Democrats are portraying. They're clearly still on the Denial phase. Maybe more screaming at the clouds will help.
4
@rdelrio
Of course if the evidence had been sufficiently strong and visible the Impeachment Inquiry would have started quite some time ago. Even though the votes have been tallied by House Democrats well in advance of any “trial” to gather evidence. The reason Democrats are “hesitating’ is that the public is really interested in other matters. As evidenced by the lack of traction by any of the Democrat announced candidates for 2020. Republicans can only hope the House pursues impeachment inasmuch that is the path to GOP victory in 2020.
1
@PJ ABC
How do you feel about obstruction of Congress? It was good enough for Nixon, a pussycat of a President compared to your hero.
5
"[N]o one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs."
How often have editorial writers and pundits urged the nation to put financial cheaters in cuffs and send them to jail rather than dole out fines that have little or no effect on wrongdoing?
If we (and Mr. Barr) do not expect him to be trucked off to a prison cell then perhaps the unexpected should be the proper course of action. As Michelle Goldberg and others have noted, the 1930s law may be old and "arcane," but it is still the law, just as are so many other vital laws.
Until that law is deleted from the books, it stands as an important deterrent to ambitious political lawbreakers.
But only if the decency, courage and application of constitutional correctness are activated to send a lawful message and correct unlawful behavior.
Bring on The Unexpected.
Doug Giebel, Big Sandy, Montana
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@Doug Giebel
I agree. They broke the law. Barr, in particular, lied to Congress.
Lock him up.
48
So "arcane" now means anything before smart phones & facebook?
1
@Josh And desperate times often require desperate measures.
4
It's been a constitutional crisis ever since the Electoral College selected this president, and since he was sworn in.
3
The courts will not decide anything. Trump will flout the law, just as his favorite president, Andrew Jackson did.
Pelosi and the Democratic leadership do not have the backbone to attempt impeaching Trump and he knows it. Democrats cave when faced with making a stand, whether on policy, or this.
Even if the horrid Trump were defeated in 2020, if his defiance here sticks he will be emboldened to refuse to leave his office.
Then the fun really begins.
2
There are 34 Senate seats up for election in 2020. 22 are held by Republicans and the rest by Democrats. This is the opposite of 2018. The Democratic Party has to focus on these races. DJT’s power comes from Mitch McConnell (one of the seats up for re-election). Rid the USA of McConnell and the whole house of cards tumbles.
3
@Mike Oare
The Republican hold on the Senate must be broken before there is any chance of avoiding the precipice we are headed for. Five seats is all that is needed. Things will look very different for Trump then even if he is reelected and if not then pay up day has come.
1
@Mike Oare
Yes, a lot of Republican seats are up in 2020. Very few of them, however, seem likely to be closely contested. A Democrat in Alabama is up for election which is very likely another loss.
It seems more likely than not that the Republicans keep the Senate. It is nearly certain that if the Senate flips it will be because voters in West Virginia and Montana trusted their Senate Democrat. We should consider this when we pick a nominee for POTUS.
I’m a ‘left of moderate’ citizen. What key votes has Pelosi passed? ‘Ballotpedia’ shows none. She has to walk and chew gum at the same time.
1
The US court system functions by burning litigant's money until they settle. Of the three divisions of the federal government, the judiciary is the least senior.
1
Well, Trump is running the country the way he ran his businesses....irresponsibly, illegally, and without accountability.
2
Congress should cite both Barr and McGahn for contempt. While that may have no immediate impact, it could lead to their disbarment, effectively ending their legal careers.
5
As Trump would tweet - No constitutional collision (spelling error is his)no nothing.
This all about a lying, inept, egomaniacal president and it has little to do with a crisis, which happened the day he was elected.
3
He's behaving like the tyrant he'd like to be. And if the House doesn't get forceful -- literally -- the tyrant will dismantle our system of government. Democrats are slow to awaken to the threat Trump poses, and slow to act on measures that will work. I suggest the House dispatch the sergeant-at-arms...with lots of other sergeants, corporals and privates...and lots of arms. Arrest everyone who refuses to cooperate.
1
Americans that will or will not vote Trump in 2020 temp to think alongside these lines:
Put your money where your mouth is.
Fish or cut bait.
Put up or shut up.
Show me the money.
Where is the beef?
Above is not however the way the Washington or MSM think or operate.
This Impeachment Lite strategy and associated feigned pearl clutching about Trump’s response may actually help him, not hurt him.
1
And so the beginning of the end of our republic will play out in courts, dragging on... decisions being made far too late...legaleese and news saturation will render the public apathetic... nothing will happen and our democracy will die with a whimper rather than a flash... and no one will do anything. Very sad.
1
Of course Trump sees impeachment as an asset. He has the Republican Senate so completely under his control, they will never convict him. Then besides being our Emperor Donald, he will be a martyr. All the better to sucker the rubes whose lives he is destroying in to voting for him in 2020. Barnum had it right. There is a sucker born every minute, and Trump is a master at controlling them.
1
Donald McGahn, is it too much to act the concerned American? To uphold the Constitution and testify? Is Trump worth destroying your reputation and life?
For heaven's sake, step forward. Let's right the ship.
2
If there’s nothing new to see in an unredacted report then why is the White House hiding it? And why on earth should we be afraid of impeaching a lying tyrant in the White House? There is nothing to be gained by being indecisive here. The majority of the voting public wants to see an end to Trump’s reign as King of Fools and voting to impeach him, will at the very least, send a signal that he is not above the law.
2
Pelosi needs to let the thing play out just a little bit more... then Impeach him, for sure.
No Blue State from 2016 will Flip Red in 2020.
That means the Democrats only need to reclaim MI, WI and PA.
If Biden is the Nominee, he will get PA, for sure.
Then Biden only needs to concentrate on Michigan & Wisconsin.
Trump won Michigan and Wisconsin by razor thin margins with the Illegal Help from Putin.
If Trump is impeached, the RED states might get angry, but so what. I suspect that the majority of clear thinking adults in Michigan and Wisconsin will Not vote for Trump regardless if he's impeached or Not impeached... so, Impeach him.
Don't make any Political calculations based on what people in Mississippi, Alabama, West Virginia, Arkansas and other Deep Red states might think.
2
@DMZ
If Trump is impeached, the RED states might get angry, but so what.
well the EC is ruled by the red states out west.
it will guarantee victory via EC if impeachmentis started.
And the band played on...
"It's always the right time to do the right thing." Martin Luther King.
I see no reason not to resort to inherent contempt. Trump is playing hardball, so, why not throw a fastball high and tight. You do not win by following the rules. You go where he goes and you root out the rat. If it requires dogs, use them. Jailing Mnuchen for a few days should clarify his corrupt cabinet. See who will take a bullet for him.
4
Barr is in compliance with the special council law. The Mueller report has been released to the public. Trump has been shown to be a loud mouth unsavory jerk but he did not work with the Russians. The constitutional crisis over congressional oversight does not exist as far as the special council law is concerned. They cannot relitigate the fact that Mueller issued no indictments and the academic parlor game of pursuing Trump over obstruction gets nowhere. Pelosi is under the misapprehension that the country wants to keep the anti Russia hysteria going. I cannot believe the Democrats are using their 2018 victory in the House so foolishly. Impeachment is a loser politically. Legally it is not justified.
1
Forcing impeachment is a great strategy, whether intended or not. It allows the President to run again in 2020 either as an indicted President or one cleared by the "opposition" party. I can see his rallies now..."See, all that FAKE NEWS. I've been robbed of my first term. The Mueller Report fully exonerated me. NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION. Even Nancy Pelosi thought so, otherwise she'd have me impeached."
For the record, impeachment of Bill Clinton didn't hurt the Republicans. They lost 2 seats in the House race of 2000, which was 2 seats less they lost in 1998, prior to impeachment. They also won the Presidency. The only lesson "learned" was not to impeach a President with high approval ratings. Clinton's approval in Jan 1998 was at 69%. It spiked to 73% during impeachment and settled at 60% for most of the remainder of his leadership. Trumps current approval is 45%, per RCP's running average and rising. Probably because people think he's innocent or his crimes not too severe, otherwise impeachment would have started.
Why is it that Chelsea Manning serves time and may well go back to prison for refusing to obey a subpoena and yet the president is telling folk to do exactly the same?
3
The end of this godforsaken era cannot come soon enough. However, I do believe that impeachment is a powerful tool for Donald, President of the Perpetual Grievance, and thus, we must deny it to him. But full steam ahead on every investigation and to the courts. Donald is a veritable feast of wrongs, a multitude of sins.
Let us focus on death by a thousand cuts, as he bumbles through his tariffs, tanks the stock market, churns through the bottom of the barrel personnel that he can manage to scrape together, and gets laughed at on the world stage. Oh and when the going gets tough, Stephen Miller will goad him into rounding up some brown toddlers in hello kitty back packs which will backfire eventually.
Donald’s defining trait is his stunning incompetence, tempered with indifference, corruption, and malevolence. We are seeing it play out as his Pyongyang boyfriend blithely launches rockets knowing that Donald is so far out on a limb, gaga for him, that the most he’ll do is tweet something nasty. Cowering Republicans, take note.
Then there will be the trifecta from seeing his tax records released against his will, exposing him as a billion dollar loser over at least two decades, a money launderer, and a tax cheat. That should puncture the myth of success for the rubes voted the guy who “starred” on America’s greatest fictional television series, The Apprentice. NY State can charge him with all of that and he cannot do a thing except rant and rave.
7
If one of Trump's minions reads this piece and divulges the premises to him, I bet Trump will think, "I've got to break that precedent! Now how do I go about it?"
"Of course, if the president decides to flout any of the court rulings, the country could find itself in a deeper constitutional crisis. There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts."
And that is literally what wakes me up in the dead of night. Would the GOP sit back if Trump ignored both the House and the courts? If he should ignore a Suprenme Court decision? I honestly fear that McConnell, Graham, et al., have so completely sold their souls that they would let the entire Constitutional structure come crashing down, all the while waving the flag and talking about the Founding Fathers.
566
@Longtime Dem
this is a partisan crisis, not a constitutional crisis. Democrats don't have anything to do but make noise, similar to the Republicans in 2008-2010 when the ACA got through in the middle of the night.
2
@Longtime Dem In addition to the evidence in the Mueller report, the public should be aware of Trump's long history, documented in law suits, of financial fraud, exploitation of undocumented workers, and association with soldiers of the Gambino family, like Felix Sater. Google can find several newpaper reports of fraudulent real estate schemes run by Donald:
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html and
http://time.com/5039109/donald-trump-undocumented-polish-trump-tower-bonwit-teller/
Under Donald's direction, investors in Trump Baja Ocean resort lost life savings; in demolishing the Bonwit Teller building to make space for Trump tower, illegal workers from Poland were made to work in asbestos dust for 12 hours a day; some were never paid, others received partial pay through years of law suits. Trump really doesn't care about the harm he does to people - it is just collateral damage of no importance to him.
87
@Longtime Dem Control the Senate & you control the most important lever of power in government: the judiciary. The courts are the source of the Republican's power, their blunt instrument in the cultural war that divides us. The GOP is playing a long game. Trump will be gone soon. They will still be here. The GOP will wait him out & achieve all of their objectives. Their main goal is to nominate 3-4 very conservative Supreme Court justices. Trump has gotten two SCOTUS appointments, he may get more. He’s moved much faster on lower-court appointments than Obama did. The legal arm of the conservative movement is the best organized & most far-seeing sector of the Right. They truly are in it — and have been in it — for the long term goals. Control the Supreme Court, stack the judiciary, and you can stop the progressive movement, no matter how popular it is, no matter how much legislative power it has. Nothing will get in the way of that goal.
46
The country is in a constitutional crisis, even though "the base" doesn't seem capable of understanding it. Too much analysis has a paralyzing effect. The Democrats have to step in and take control of the situation with the help of the judiciary, and do it quickly. This brazen disregard for the rule of law cannot continue--it has to be stopped in months, not years.
303
@JB days
3
The subheading of the piece mentions impeachment, but it is not mentioned a single time in the article as a tool available to the House. It appears that the president is using the old rope-a-dope on Congress, and succeeding marvelously. Congress must use the tool that the Constitution provides, and they must work quickly to build up public awareness and support. History demands it.
212
@RMH This article is a great example of why Progressives rarely have good political advice. The left & their allies who are pushing this train are motivated by hate & outrage. They're completely oblivious to the consequences of their proposed actions. Impeaching Trump will facilitate his winning a 2nd term, which would be devastating for the Democratic party. The Democrats were not elected to hold endless hearings on the Trump administration. They were given a House majority to craft & pass good legislation. Pelosi to her credit is trying to keep everyone's eye on the ball. But leftist zealots are determined to drive the party straight off the cliff. The House should fix DACA, address immigration issues, & improve the healthcare system. Focusing on impeachment is an exercise in total futility. There's zero chance the GOP controlled Senate will vote to impeach. Going down this path will keep the issue in the forefront for the 2020 election. The election should be about health care, the economy, immigration reform, etc. & not about the Trump Russia scandal. Impeachment hearings driven by Progressive fanatics will certainly over-reach. It will be easily spun by Trump as a witch hunt to fair-minded voters. When impeachment fails in the Senate, Trump will again claim victory. The pure efficiency that Democrats are able to deploy when it comes to shooting themselves in the foot is often breathtaking. This is the one time we should resist the temptation to pull the trigger.
3
@Bill Brown
Who are you to say why the Democrats won the House? Everyone I know voted that way entirely to hold Trump's toes to the fire, but the bottom line is they were elected to fulfill their Constitutional obligations (as was King Trump).
I also don't believe that impeaching him will facilitate his second term. That's not going to change one single vote. What it will do is to shine a very bright light on the Republican nonsense. Trump should testify in front of the Senate, as should others. The fawning nonsense the Republicans engage in will be played out live, for everyone to see. Yes, the Republican Senate will not vote for impeachment, and their behavior in the process will imperial their entire party for decades to come, if not destroy it.
BTW, there's zero chance the Senate will pass any legislation desired by the Democrats (e.g. DACA), just as there's zero chance they'll oust Trump. So why pretend that the Democrats should be focused on legislation, when the Republicans will gridlock that as well? And what makes you think they aren't attempting to do both? You think every Democrat is sitting around obsessing about Trump, 24/7?
Shooting themselves in the foot? I am quite confident that you will not only see Trump, but the Republican majority in the Senate, as well, swept aside in 2020. The Republicans are doing lasting damage to themselves, the country, and the Constitution, and it will not go unpunished.
5
@Bill Brown
Apparently you do not understand our political system and the requirements for bills to become law. First the house approves the measure by majority vote; it then goes to the senate for approval; with approval it then goes to the president for signature. With a corrupt, lying, vindictive president who may refuse to sign a bill there's nothing you can do but to remove him and his henchmen in the senate.
4
Actually the country has been suffering from a Constitutional Crisis since 1973, when the Supreme Court used a flawed argument ( a "Constitutional Right" that isn't in the Constitution) to remove a major issue from democratic control. The election of Trump by frustrated voters and his packing of the Court to reverse the ruling are the most recent stage of the crisis.
1
Democracy is slipping through our fingers so fast it's making our heads spin, Barr, McGann, Don Jr. all need to be dragged into hearings in cuffs. Mueller as much as I admire him needs to find a way to finish what he started. And Pelosi needs to make her move.
This fear of a GOP backlash is weak and irrational. Backlash? They beat us to that long ago and they're publicly laughing about it. What is the point of hoping Trump will end his obstruction campaign when he hasn't done anything remotely like that? There is no 'if'. On the contrary, he and McConnell have become emboldened beyond belief.
A contempt charge with teeth will not be the end of the world and I can't believe it will miraculously expand the GOP base. If it does so what. They're already planning to steal the next election anyway. We can at least be sure that if Trump floats an idea like that he actually means it no matter how outrageous it sounds.
If we don't act decisively now future elections will be a complete farce. There are examples all over the world to look to. The difference is we have the world's largest military. It will be a catastrophe if this goes any further.
5
The situation could not be more serious.
Falwell Jr.'s fascistic claim that Congress owes Trump two more years -- and Trump's retweet -- is a bald threat, the same as Trump's crack about "2nd Amendment people" taking care of Hillary.
Trump is an open admirer of dictators around the world, and he's eager to join their ranks.
He's also very much in position to pull it off, having packed the Supreme Court. If RBG doesn't make it, that'll put the game out of reach. The analogy with Germany 1933 and its Special Courts is wholly apt.
To face this with climate change already changing life itself is mind-boggling. Who are these genuine "evil-doers" holding the world hostage? Must we all obediently trot over the cliff on their orders?
We're not the only ones in this world. It's not just ours to do as we wish, as the "American Exceptions" like to believe.
4
But any analysis of this situation that limits itself to Trump is inadequate. Trump is a symptom, not the problem.
The problem is that the Republican Party, once an essential conservative balance, is now detached from reality, living in a delusional world of invented "facts" and supported by hate. Remove Trump and Republicans would soon shift their allegiance to some other leader who would preserve the comfort of their delusion. Would you prefer a superficially saner president with the same agenda? A President Pence? A President Barr? Wouldn't such a leader be even more dangerous?
Delusions end when reality rudely reasserts itself -- the delusional captain steers the ship onto the rocks. What form will the crisis take? Civil outbreaks from smoldering hate? Resentment from wealth concentration? A fatal misstep in foreign affairs? An ecological catastrophe? Then Republicans will have their "what were we thinking moment." But we're all going to suffer.
Focus on the real problem. Trump is chump change.
1
To Trump, this is a game. He wins when chaos is at a maximum. I doubt that he has any deliberate strategy like pushing for impeachment. That requires forethought and planning. However, he is likely to blunder into impeachment. Trump is fearful that information about him will get out. Some has already surfaced. He knows he is a cheat and a liar. But some of his biggest lies are about his finances. He seems most concerned that his band of supporters will find out what a fraud he is and turn on him. Enabled by Republicans in the Senate, Trump can and will try anything to hide the truth. The truth about what he really is.
3
As someone who is decidedly not a Trump fan, but who despises the Democrats, I fervently pray every day that they move to impeach Trump. Remind me again how that worked out for the GOP with Clinton? And Clinton at least had committed a crime (perjury). This is gonna be great...
It's easy for a major political party, corrupt to the core, to sit back and hand the reins of power to an autocrat who wants to reshape the content and character of this country.
It's far harder to grab it back and restore the rule of law. The only way that can happen is enough Americans jettison conspiracy thinking and mendacity and realize what's happening all around them.
For over 240 years, we've self-governed as a republic. When we look in the mirror, the only question for those opposing autocracy must be, how far will I work and fight to restore decency and law in America
2
Trump and everyone involved in this investigation gave multiple hours of testimony to Mueller, including McGhan, his son, everyone and anyone. All this, even though there was no evidence of any collusion, and that the entire premise of this investigation was to goad Trump into fighting it, so they could then nail him on obstruction. After 2 long years, the Mueller report finally came to its conclusion. No collusion and not a smidgen of evidence of it, which means the entire premise was a hoax. But of course, Democrats are now clamoring tooth and nail to bring down Trump on obstruction, or fighting this hoax.
So now they want these same people, including his son, to testify again? Before Congress? for what? So one little slip up could get them charged with lying to Congress??
Enough is enough.
1
Trump simply does not care whether or not the Democrats impeach him-he has straddled the line of lawlessness all of his life.He is so shameless that he walks our on debts,uses harsh and hateful language and works hard to discredit anyone who does not sing his praises.Impeachment would be a disgrace but he already lives in disgrace.He is counting on the Republicans in the Senate to save him, and if it comes to that he counts on the Supreme Court to absolve him from the Constitutional remedies for impeachment.
2
Trump is making the Democrats look like a weak and impotent Party.
He is winning this fight.
I don't see him losing in 2020.
1
Congress must impeach. There is no doubt.
Of course, the Senate will not vote to remove Trump from office, which is why the Dems must be out front on this and begin the proceedings with the full and public understanding that an attempt to remove from office will fail, and that the object of the hearings is to put on record the activities of the Trump White House and election campaign. (You cannot suppress a Congressional hearing with claims of Executive Privilege.) It is imperative that the historical record be established, regardless of the outcome of the impeachment attempt. And who knows, maybe the dirt revealed in the hearing will be sufficient to shock the Republicans into finally accepting reality: that Trump is a criminal, contemptuous of the rule of law, and that his supporters are IN THE MINORITY.
(My fellow citizens, all of you, please vote in 2020– it is our last hope.)
2
Trump is a charlatan and a huckster, he is a very good con man and has forty percent of the US electorate well and truly fooled. The American system of democracy is broken, and hopefully the Trump debacle has highlighted this and the next Democratic President will try to repair the system and keep big business out of politics. If this happens then Trump has served a purpose. Back off from Trump for now, and concentrate on winning the next election, then if they win go after him guns blazing and make him pay for his many crimes.
The Democrats in congress should take Trump to court, as the authors advise. Trump believes he is on the right track by daring the Democrats to impeach him, because the hard core Republican voters are sticking by him. The Fox (& Sinclair & radio friends) propaganda machine is working feverishly to put everything into a favorable context. Those Republican voters have been hearing false allegations of criminality against Democrats for so many years. They have watched hopefully, then hopelessly, as Republicans launched endless unjustifiable harassing investigations against Hillary and other Democrats in power, so they now believe that all investigations are politically biased. A percentage of them are motivated by religion, others by racism or unconscious racial fear, and will not be persuaded to abandon their cause. Democrats read and watch on in horror as it appears nothing can be done. "What happens when Donald defies the courts and congress? What if the SCOTUS lets him defy congress?" Relax.
Donald is trying to hide the truth. More accurately, he is trying to hide key pieces and invalidate the rest. But, the truth is already out there. The Republicans are the people who should be nervous now. Donald has overplayed his hand.
The majority population of the USA will not tolerate a dictator.
1
Trump has been “a law unto himself” all his life and has not the least intention of changing his MO. It’s worked so far, so why would he? If we let him do it this time - it will be to our eternal shame.
1
Trump’s “open defiance” is obstruction of Justice. Congress has the power to conduct investigations to determine corruption, criminality, inept government operation, and the potential impeachment of elected and appointed government officials. Attorney General Barr is running a Department of a Justice loyal to a President and not to the rule of law. One cannot expect Barr’s corrupt Department of Justice to provide blind justice, just blind injustice. One could ask what is not being investigated that should be, what is being covered-up that should not be, to what extent are individuals allowed to escape justice because of looney toon ideologies or narrow-minded biases. Shame on them all.
During Watergate, I had lost faith in the Office of the President and in the Republican Party for its blind loyalty to a criminal President over higher acceptance of their Oaths of Office to the Constitution and to the nation. Unified denial of facts and evidence, unwarranted blame to justify denials, elevates the appearance of unified ignorance. At least Americans back then had the common sense to identify it.
The weaknesses of our democratic Republic are once again revealed and once again these weaknesses are elevated by corrupt individuals who have rejected the ideas and values of our Constitution and who have abused their powers to protect their own criminality or that of others.
1
Our reasons for the Congress to bring charges of Impeachment against the current occupant of the Oval office are as numerous as the days he has occupied the office.
The only audacity is his believing that his fellow Republicans in the Senate will not confirm Articles which the House has articulated time and again and which are plain as day.
IMHO, he is foolish and suicidal and cares not about the People who he only regards as excess population. Yet how does he conscience his harming rural America, the salt of the earth, those who are still trying to provide the world by their honest work?
He regards Hard Times as reason for him and his fat friends to make profit off those of us who are going under. That's the underbelly of this Constitutional Crisis.
1
"But that arcane process has not been used since the 1930s, and no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs."
I think we need to start seriously expecting. The law means nothing unless it is enforced. I served on a grand jury in 2017, and I learned that subpoenas are not optional. When you are called you appear and you answer the questions, or you go to jail. To allow otherwise is to breed arrogance in the powerful and despair in the powerless.
The Republicans have forgotten what the rule of law means. It is time to remind them.
552
@Michael Chorost
I agree completely (and with Montana poster Doug Giebel's very similar comment). I think that indeed the House sergeant-at-arms should "drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs." Let's get serious, no, aggressive and show that we Democrats can and will enforce the law. Action NOW!
8
There is little doubt that Trump has some more skeletons in the closet. However, I don't see anything seriously enough that voters would care.
Democrats tend to forget that "obstruction" will appear kind of justified to voters who considered the investigation a fishing expedition.
They also forget that fighting makes Trump look strong. In the meantime the Democrat strategy to investigate everything that Trump has ever done seems aimed at making him look like a weak man who can't protect his own privacy.
We have been looking at this show now for over two years. In all that time the Democrats never came up with anything noticeable. Instead we keep hearing that some things haven't been investigated deep enough. Let's be realistic: these "investigations" will never end. After they have received Trump's tax returns they will want to see the books of Trump's companies. And then their correspondence archive. And then ...
5
@Wim Roffel What Trumps supporters believe has no standing in this controversy. Stop trying to trivialize the President's actions.
This is uncharted territory, an administration that accepted help from a foreign government to influence the outcome of an election. The evidence is right there in the report. It happened. It is only due to a legal standard for conspiracy that could not be conclusively proven (remember that the president refused to testify, and that the report also stated that several witnesses gave false testimony).
The actions of the president were a clear effort to interfere with the investigation. That is obstructing justice. The original investigation was brought on by his own justice department. Congress was not involved at that point. They are involved now because of the seriousness of the accusations in the report, the actions of Trump's attorney general to obfuscate the report's findings and stow mistrust are part of the Congress' Constitutional responsibility ("Checks and balances").
If the President had nothing to hide, stop trying to obscure the process and let the truth be told. Otherwise, until he comes clean, let the subpoenas fly and get the courtroom ready.
1
@Wim Roffel
The real problem is that the Constitution does not give Congress enough power to rein in Trump. Personally I think shutting down the government for weeks should be an impeachable offense, but apparently it isn't. Ditto for declaring a nonexistent emergency, something normally done by dictators. Congress wouldn't have to spend weeks looking for proof of those things.
In my lifetime I have never seen a more store case of harassment. the facts laid out in the Mueller report speak for themselves. The Democrats insistence on harassing a president that was duly elected amounts to nothing less than an attempted coup d'etat. whether you agree with Trump or not the vitriol we see today on the part of the Democrats and harassment will not stand with the American people when it comes to electing the next president. Democrats should focus on policy and what they were elected to do for the American people
7
@anthony
No one has actually read the full Mueller report yet. 1,600 lines were redacted from its 440 pages. Seems interesting no? What we are asking for is insanely simple. If Trump is as innocent as he claims the report says he is, show it to us.
8
@anthony Well considering the fact that only the Trump Administration has actually SEEN the Mueller report, you actually have no clue what the facts that it laid out are. All you have is William Barr saying "Hey guys, I read it, and it definitely for sure says Donald Trump never did anything bad, ever."
2
did you read the report? 100 bucks you did not.
"If the courts ruled in Congress’s favor, it would give the win more punch than having individual cases dribbling out over time."
And what if the courts rule against the House (which is not the same as "Congress")?
When the editorial board performs a semantic trick of referring to the House as "Congress" is it not starting to compete with Trump in playing hard and fast with the truth?
The planet could be in danger. There are huge differences in wealth in our society. Our infrastructure needs fixing. But the Democrats have only one agenda, "Get Trump!".
2
@Ludwig
I agree with everything you wrote except the last sentence.
Trump had two years with a republican House and Senate to accomplish fixing infrastructure but he did nothing about it except dissemble. He withdrew from the climate control agreement, denigrated immigrants and created a catastrophe on the southern border. Our relationship with our European allies is in shambles. His thousands of lies, now, according to WaPo, some five or so a day, and his ''working golf days'' are a disgrace.
The man is insane. He has done a good job of accomplishing just what he aimed to do; destroy the country as we know it and it is time to end the madness.
3
If we don’t get Trump our country, our planet will be in trouble. If we don’t get Trump the differences in wealth will be further exacerbated. If we don’t get Trump our infrastructure will crumble more.
The main reason get Trump is he corrupt. Some comments say that Trump was duly elected as our President well that doesn’t concur with making him a saint, which he surely never was.
1
I don't see the current situation as a Constitutional crisis because there are remedies, in the courts. Defiance of court rulings is another matter.
2
Either this is a constitutional crisis, and a major one at that, or the U.S. is a banana republic and destined to remain so for the remainder of its history. We can't have it both ways. It is time for any decent Republicans who may still be out there (assuming that there are any) to take a stand. No Mr. McConnell, it is not "case closed" and it is not time "to move on". It is time to get back to the rule of law.
26
For good or bad, Trump with his reckless behavior has exposed the sortcomings in the US constitution. It was coceived when nation was young and still felt it was at risk of renewed effforts of its former colonial"master" and it proved to be correct in 1812. Also the naion was expanding ona territorial state definitions which were under-populated,. The country was defined as a Union of independent states instaed of a nation of ALL its citizens with equal representation, Niw we are an adult nation and that concept needs to be challenged. The House represents the people while the senate represents the states. We must transfer the power of approving the judges and cabinet selections from senate to House. Also, the presidential election should be by the people and not by the states. An immediate change to eliminate "winner takes all" practice of the lectoralcollege and replaced with lectors elected by congressional disricts and the state
7
The Democrats began their barrage of subpoenas before the Mueller report was even released. It started with Nadler issuing subpoenas for every possible document related to Trump's business dealings for the past 7 years. This was an outright abuse of the subpoena powers granted to congress precisely because the power of congress is meant to be used as a check on the executive branch. Instead Democrats claimed this power simply to gather documents that were not even related to an actual investigation, but as a blatant attempt to find dirt on private citizen Trump for the sole purpose of trying to defeat him in 2020. There was nothing about those subpoenas that were for the purpose of oversight, and trying to find dirt on the president in order to defeat him in an election does not qualify as a "check" on his power. And so in the context of this type of behavior there is not an objective person who believes that they are respectable people who seek only to do their constitutional duty. And just to drive this point home they now decided to "investigate" Russian collusion by demanding Trump Jr. answer their questions on the matter.
6
@Michael Stavsen how would you propose Congress perform its mandate of oversight if it cannot subpoena?
8
@Michael Stavsen There was and continues to be sufficient evidence in the public domain to suggest that Candidate and President Trump had and continues to possess business interests consistent with a conflict of interest in carrying out his official duties. It seems like only due diligence that Congress get to the bottom of his businesses, including foreign investors and also his record setting business losses. To say that Congressional investigations are a "blatant attempt to find dirt on private citizen Trump" is a moot point when the Congress and the public need to understand the complex relationship between Russia and Trump. Trump's own secretive behaviour and litigation only makes it all the more urgent to get to the bottom of his finances because: why would he go to these lengths unless he really is hiding something.
3
@Michael Stavsen: These subpoenas were precisely about oversight. Trump refuses to release his tax returns after he pledged to do so, violates the emoluments clause on a daily basis, and lied and had Cohen lie about his business interests in Moscow. He is oddly beholden to Putin who he believes over his own law enforcement and intelligence agancies. Where does Trump get his money from? Who are his lenders who have leverage over him? Is Trump a national security risk because of his debts? Trump has already been forced to close his fraudulent Trump university and reimburse its students, and foundation that he used as his piggybank. He and his family business have committed tax fraud in sofar as we have been able to see some of his tax returns. Trump jr. himself organized a meeting with Russians who promised him dirt on Hillary Clinton. "Love it", he said. The House is doing what it should do: Execute its Constitutional mandate to hold a president accountable who doesn't even know what's in the Constitution because he hasn't read it.
1
The House has very limited enforcement power as Trump and his minions defy their legitimate subpoenas. The House is now doing what Congress is supposed to be doing, and what it did throughout the 8 years of the Obama Administration. Every day of such defiance by Trump, Barr and Mnuchin builds the case for impeachment, and, more importantly, builds the case for ending the Trump administration in Nov. 2020. But, right now, Barr and Mnuchin need to ask themselves whether Trump is worth putting themselves in legal jeopardy for obstruction of justice. The Mueller report didn't close the book on that; only Barr claimed that it did. Legitimate Congressional investigations of Trump and the influence of Russia and other foreign powers on him continue the same thread of inquiry that the FBI started and Mueller followed. Mueller found that Trump attempted to obstruct the FBI investigation first and then his own. So Barr, Mnuchin and others, by defying Congress, are engaged in extending Trump's obstruction of justice by stonewalling Congress. There is a cover-up, and they have not learned the lessons Watergate should have taught them.
11
Quote “Democrats would be best served by honing their legal strategy while avoiding political stunts.
For instance, multiple members, including Maryland’s Elijah Cummings, the chairman of the House oversight committee, have said Democrats should consider resurrecting “the power of inherent contempt,” which allows Congress to arrest and jail individuals who refuse to comply with subpoenas”
That is not a political stunt but a return to Constitutional muscle that should never have been thrown away.
7
I now read the NYTimes for the business news and the crossword. I pass over anything Trump-related which, unfortunately, is the majority portion. I no longer watch my beloved MSNBC either. I'm "over" it all and it has become just noise in the background.
I'm sure I'm not the only one burnt out by all this dissent and dishonesty. The Russians are getting exactly what they'd hoped - a country, and government, in disarray, world alliances in tatters, and now China, North Korea, and Iran up for grabs. Mr. Putin will be happy to step in.
Meanwhile, here at home, there is nothing going on but fighting which fits right into DT's playbook. His base loves it and will never change their minds, the rest of us are frustrated beyond belief, and all that the Democrats seem bent on doing is nothing but widening the divide and furthering Trump's "poor me" cause.
Instead of myriad candidates for the next election, please Dems, get your act together, decide on a winning platform, and start talking about that! It may not be able to be as progressive as some want but we need to win in 2020 in order to at least be able to start somewhere.
I don't think I'm alone in my consternation and growing ambivalence. Sad to feel as though we're all spinning out of control with no end in sight. I just hope people will still care enough to get out and vote. Right now, it feels as though nothing will matter anyway...
10
Frustration and resignation is not healthy for our democracy. Stay in the fight.
10
@samp426 Thanks, I am, but it's getting tougher and more frustrating by the minute.
Your position is exactly what Trump and his corrupt administration hope for. Never give up. Stand for democracy and the constitution. Be. A true patriot.
1
We always have a tendency to fight the last war. We plan for the next war based upon the previous war. So, Trump is planning on Impeachment to make him more popular. After all that's what happened last time. But he's no Bill Clinton. Clinton could follow a plan, keep to a message, actually empathize with voters, not be a red faced bellower. (I sure hope all that animosity doesn't get me bounced.) Clinton was a political strategist who was in the process of 'Triangulating' the Republicans. Trump isn't. 'Last War On'.
1
“There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts.”
———
This is why jail is the best option. Do it now, and do it often. Why exactly do Democrats not want to use the only effective tool in their shed? None of the people they have subpoenaed have shown any respect for the the law or the Constitution. They should not be afforded respect in return merely because of their title. The courts are all now stacked with Trump judges, so Democrats most likely can’t win any of their cases there. Nothing else will be effective and even if Democrats do win a few court battles, they have lost the war. Trump will defy court orders, even those that come from the Supreme Court, and he knows no one will do anything about it.
10
Why not send the sergeant-at-arms to arrest Barr and Mnuchin, and McGann and Don Jr if they don’t testify? (The government was happy to throw Chelsea Manning in jail for something similar.) The Republicans have shown their contempt for the law in a number of small ways from Merrill Garland through Trump’s obstruction and there have been no consequences. How far do Republicans have to go before the democratically elected House of Representatives reasserts that it’s an equal branch of government?
No one wanted to be here, but Republicans decided to put their party over their country and its system of laws. Breaking the law has consequences. It’s time the Republicans experience them.
24
@M Wow! Talk about banana republic thinking. Do you imagine that guards at the Justice Department would assist the Sergeant-at-arms or resist any attempt by him (or her, as the case may be) in such an arrest attempt? Would weapons be employed? What do you have in
mind? How about a "citizen's arrest"? You could try this all by yourself. How do you think that would work out?
Trump appears to be following the same course that Hugo Chavez did.
Electing a populist demagogue with no governmental or legal experience has often produced the same result. What he doesn't break he will completely demolish ... because that his what his voters wanted him to do.
13
Pelosi is right. But either SCOTUS will decide in favor of Trump
(most likely, sadly) or against; and in the later case he will likely defy SCOTUS (with GOP blessings). Either way the House will have to use it's only remaining constitutional power: halt gov't funding. At which point, Trump and the GOP will just abolish the House and rule as the dictatorship they are both itching for.
7
“Democrats’ most promising avenue remains with the courts.”
You mean, the courts that Trump and the GOP have been stacking in their own favor at an unprecedented pace? Those courts?
23
@JohnB you mean the courts to which the GOP appointed judges by virtue of the fact that they continue to win elections? Oh, by the way, that means the Democrats were losing. FIFY
@JohnB Obama made two appointments to the Supreme Court. Trump made two. So where is the "stacking"?
@RJ My gosh you're right, RJ! How could I have forgotten Justice Garland!
Those on the left who are demanding impeachment are not helping the situation. I believe Nancy Pelosi is steering the correct, middle course. By means of ongoing investigations, she and her leadership team are trying to build public support for further actions against the president.
In my view, it is irresponsible to dismiss or minimize Pelosi’s concerns about the 2020 election. She is right: only a convincing victory next year by the Democrats can rid of this abominable tyrant. Premature efforts to impeach could well jeopardize this increasingly slim prospect.
Unless or until there is enough public support for impeachment, it’s inevitable rejection by the Senate will leave the Democrats looking inept and feckless, or worse—hardly the brand-burnishing they need to win over moderate voters in the battleground states, without whom they cannot reach 270 electoral votes next year.
16
@Ron Cohen Trump has refused to turn over the Mueller report, refused to turn over required documents, refused to respect subpoenas, refused to appear before Congress, refused to release his tax returns. Why does anyone think he will willingly leave office?
3
@Ron Cohen
If Pelosi believes Trump obstructed justice, then she needs start impeachment proceedings immediately. She either believes it or she doesn’t, but with each passing day she is losing her credibility, especially as a Republicans throw the “witch hunt” lines.
1
@Ron Cohen - See, Ron here gets it. But I'm hoping that the rabid Liberal left doesn't see that and pushes Pelosi to overstep. Welcome to Trump 2020
"no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs." Why not? It is a constitutionally based power designed for just this sort of situation where the offender is in charge of the normal enforcement mechanisms.
34
@Stan Nadel
I'm with you. Why not?
I don't understand the repetition of "old law." The Constitution is a bunch of "old laws.' Since when does the age of a law constitute its validity, or lack thereof?
Nothing could make a stronger statement, and shock Trump et al, than jailing Barr.
Nothing would make me happier.
And the Dems would finally do something. Instead of talktalktalk and parseparseparse.
11
Impeachment now, which means impeachment without conviction, frightens many because they remember how Clinton’s popularity rose after his impeachment. But there would be hardly any similarity between the two cases. The charges against Clinton were trumped up, and everyone knew they were trumped up: the Republicans were plainly trying to get him on a technicality. Trump’s malfeasance won’t be trumped up; it will be exposed, more and more of it in more and more detail. It will be harder for his supporters to brush it aside and make light of the gravity of it.
21
Do Democrats think people aren't tiring of their never-ending political attacks on Mr. Trump? Let the matter go to the courts, let it drag on--he keeps getting stronger. In the face of Democrat fury you would think his public approval would be weakening, but it's strengthening! If he wins in 2020 Dems could stampede illegally into Mexico, maybe open borders is a reversible equation.
5
@Ronald B. Duke Trump plays to his base; so do Democrats, who know their base wants a full investigation. Whose base is larger? Look at the polls: Trump loses.
4
@Ronald B. Duke
Do Republicans think people aren't tiring of their never-ending attacks on the Constitution?
@Chris Bowling - guess we'll find out in 2020 won't we
At this point there is but one court that matters, as Trump clearly understands, and that is the court of public opinion. Giuliani, early on in this sordid spectacle, said that very thing, and every move made by Trump and his henchmen since has been with that goal in mind - to sway public opinion. In fact, if recent polls are an accurate reflection, Trump now enjoys the highest "approval rating" of his presidency. Think about that, and about what it says about the country. We are not just in a Constitutional crisis, we are on the cusp of a second civil war, hopefully of the non-shooting variety, but who knows? None of us, Trump included, could have possibly foreseen this situation. I take that back - Bannon did, and said as much - we are witnessing the destruction of his "administrative state", formerly known as the federal government. And, with that, we are seeing the destruction of our nation. The only thing that matters now is November 2020, as at this point that is the only thing that can save this nation.
19
Very well said. But the election, too, is in jeopardy. Nothing is safe, or sacred, from the one-man bulldozer and wrecking ball that is Donald Trump. He will not accept the results if he doesn’t win.
@Michael - sadly, the only thing that will survive is likely a bloated, execrable welfare state. But maybe we'll get lucky there too.
The Democrats need to be very careful how they pursue this battle with the Trump administration. They should keep in mind that the world they inhabit in Washington is not the wold of the average person on the street and it is this average person who votes.
Impeachment might engage the attention of the electorate but the daily skirmishing, the threats and counter threats between the two sides does not.
If the Democrats cannot unseat Trump in 2020 then none of this will be of much consequence. Trump has to be removed and the Senate has to be won. These are the two overriding priorities. All energy and resources should be devoted to that end otherwise the game will be lost and our great American democracy will be history.
15
"No one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs."
If that is the case, if Congress and the American people are unwilling to use whatever tools the Constitution allows, why bother going through the charade? Simply declare Imperial Presidency, and be done with it.
The editorial acknowledges this with its closing paragraph, mentioning that it might be a teeny weeny bit of a problem if Trump ignores the courts. Ya think?
40
@ImagineMoments
Right. Handcuffs are exactly what “subpoena” implies: sub poena legis = under penalty of the law. You don’t need a great deal of Latin to understand that.
1
Just follow the law. Do the oversight that the constitution calls for or allows. Nothing more, nothing less. Do the right thing.
8
The idea that impeachment would be politically harmful to Democrats, much less "political suicide", is founded on faulty assumptions and flawed reasoning. The current situation is in no way analagous to the Clinton era, in which the president was impeached by a frivolous lie about a consensual affair. (It should be noted that the current president has already been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a scheme to pay hush money to his pornstar mistress, but that isn't one of the charges being considered.)
The many crimes that would emerge from impeachment proceedings -- from obstruction to financial crimes to abuse of power -- would be overwhelming. The odds that Trump's tax returns don't contain massive tax fraud and/or money laundering are approximately 0%. And the obstruction and abuse of power has happened in plain sight. Even with the GOP/Fox propaganda machine, it would be difficult for the Senate to ignore a laundry list of high crimes and misdemeanors. It would be GOP senators, not the Democratic House, that would face political blowback.
Politics aside, impeachment is simply the right thing to do from a legal and moral perspective. The president is openly flouting the constitutional system of checks and balances, which cannot stand. Protecting our democracy is more important than timid Democrats' political worries, which I believe are unfounded. I agree with the Trumpist commenters -- bring on impeachment. Congress has been left with no choice.
29
@David T
Worrying about the political fallout from a possible impeachment only weakens the Dems hand.
"… Be careful what you wish for
'Cause you just might get it all
You just might get it all
And then some you don't want"
(Chris Daughtry, "I'm Going Home")
If the president (or anyone left in the bunker with him, at this point) believes that impeachment proceedings would only boomerang back onto the democrats, they should think again.
The model of the overreaching GOP- punished for impeaching Clinton in '98- is a faulty one for congress now; there is no clear comparison between the two, other than impeachment itself- (the GOP "impeachment managers" in the House suffered because of their hypocrisy in going after Clinton, not just the failure to convict) and the case, and the evidence they presented were not about conspiring with Russia. The democrats, in contrast, have been reluctant, not overreaching. This is evident from statements they have made. If Trump is in fact "self-impeaching", let him.
Slow and steady wins the race. The GOP let Trump run riot, when they controlled the trifecta; they have no credibility on anything the democrats do now, whether they impeach, or not.
They had their chance to do the honorable thing.
12
Does anyone really think Trump will obey a court order he does not like? How would it be reinforced? Would he call on his "base" to resist? Do we still have a democracy?
33
@Cassandra. We don’t have a democracy. Never did. We are a constitutional representative republic. The leftist media nearly always fails to say that. They keep calling us a democracy. Democracy is essentially mob rule. Which is what a Democrat’s and leftist want.
1
While impeachment is a political process , in this particular case we cannot ignore the constitutional and rule of law implications. While Mr Starr went on a partisan hunt and ended up finding a stained dress, Mr. Mueller has documented 460 pages of seriously, troubling behaviour of Mr. trump and the people surrounding him.
If we ignore this now, the future effects on the rule of law, on the legitimate oversight of congress will be disastrous. Congress must investigate and if needed come to the conclusion to start formal impeachment hearings. If the GOP won't do it, then the Democrats should do it. Even if they are afraid of Fox State Television propaganda.
Keep focussing on the truth. And when elections come, the Democratic candidate needs to attack Trump on the effect of his policies, not on his character. We all know what Trump's character is. What the GOP voter base needs to understand is why they are left behind by Trump.
29
The correct prescribed remedy for a President that does not follow the law, is compromised in some capacity, and/or obstructs any inquiries into his or his administrations actions is impeachment. That responsibility falls directly to the House of Representatives. It is their duty to ensure that unfit Presidents are investigated and removed. Whether or not the Republican Senate concurs is irrelevant for the investigation, although for removal is essential. The longer an unfit President holds power simply because of the fear of "political" fallout over the impeachment the worse the situation can become, as inaction emboldens criminals because they think that they're getting away with it. The time for action is now, not in two years, as the longer Democrats just talk the worse DJT will become.
26
Given the electoral response to the impeachment of Bill Clinton, perhaps Trump sees an impeachment challenge by the House as a way to turbo charge his re-election effort.
5
@James
Although the two situations are comparing apples to oranges.
1
They should go after what he is hiding--how he makes his money and gets loans in spite continually losing money. That will be enough.
8
These tools such as declaring any of the Trump people to be in contempt or impeachment without immediate removal from office only work on people who have any sense of shame. Neither Trump nor anyone who works for him has any shame. Nothing short of court rulings will have any effect. And even if the Supreme Court rules against Trump, he can always declare martial law. The United States’ descent into banana republic territory has never run so rapid and steep.
8
I think of it as more of a Trump gambit. Keep attacking, never give in to fairness or any referee, own the game and destroy your enemies - and, everyone is an enemy.
So yeah. It's past time to start impeachment proceedings.
17
For those here who have criticized the House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler:
Chairman Jerry Nadler representes a CIVILIZED place in America -- NYC. The people of NYC know and despise this illegitimate occupant of the Oval Office and will gladly return Mr. Nadler to the House of Representative for as long as Mr. Nadler is willing to serve his constituents and the nation! They would never vote for Trump! NEVER!
Here are the major areas in Manhattan and Brooklyn that Mr. Nadler represents. Believe me when I tell you this is not Trump Country; it's a place where people KNOW Trump well enough never to be conned by him. They are much too smart for that! And they (and I) LOVE Jerry Nadler:
"...the west side of Manhattan from the Upper West Side down to Battery Park, including the World Trade Center. It also includes the Manhattan neighborhoods of Chelsea, Hell's Kitchen, and Greenwich Village, as well as parts of Brooklyn such as Coney Island, Bensonhurst, Borough Park, and Bay Ridge. It includes many of New York City's most popular tourist attractions, including the Statue of Liberty, New York Stock Exchange, Brooklyn Bridge, and Central Park."
14
@NY Times Fan I love Rep. Nadler. I will continue to vote for him until one of us dies, or until I move out of his district.
Dems should decide if he should be impeached or not. It’s really time to stop trying to plumb the mind of Donald Trump. This is not a game.
8
Wouldn't defying both congress and the courts be criminal, whatever one's position?
8
One would think, but I only suggest that a criminal indictment may be the way to go because no one seems to want to go there. The argument is that it would be too disruptive, but how could it be anymore disruptive than what is happening now (or what is about to happen)?
12
At one Trump claimed he had the support of the military and his well-armed supporters. If he and his gang refuse to cooperate with subpoenas, refuse to provide documents to Congress, and ignore any court rulings against him--what next? Will we be looking at a coup, and an outright dictatorship?
20
If Trump defies both Congress and the courts in the space that he is carving for himself outside of the Constitution, the only direct remedy may truly be an old-fashioned criminal indictment, either Federal or state or even both. Something is cooking at the state level that has yet to be revealed. What answer will Trump have then when he is ordered to appear in court before a judge or risk the consequences if he does not?
18
If the House votes to impeach, the Senate will never convict. Stop wasting your time, money and energy.
2
Previously, I was against impeachment. But my mind is changing. Not because of all the subpoena hubbub. Because the fever is too high. We have to break it. With so few Americans who read, impeachment hearings are the only way to get a lot of facts in front of voters. Then, even though the Senate won’t convict, at least voters will know where each and every senator stands on the facts and testimony that were presented. The result will be more informed voters going to the polls in 2020, which is good.
4
"Sub poena" is latin for "under penalty".
It's the literal idea of this term that failure to comply is punished.
If it isn't, all that remains is a metaphor.
23
Who needs Mueller. Ignoring all subpoenas is obstruction of justice by itself and grounds for impeachment.
40
This is what most of his supporters wanted when they voted for him. We haven't seen the worst of it. The "sum of all fears" is what lies ahead. You can be sure that trump will not go down in flames without trying to incinerate the entire system. The same goes for his offspring.
35
@Murray Bolesta, your post made me realize that Trump is a cartoon James Bond villain--an inflated, orange, dotard silver-spooner, playing at being tough, surrounded by empty plastic children. It's more tragedy than comedy, though. I, too, fear what Trump and his unqualified minions could do, intentionally or through ignorance.
2
@Murray Bolesta Good God, I certainly hope so. When Trump was elected, this was clearly the best possible outcome. Burn the entire corrupt mess to the ground and start over.
I disagree that Trump voters wanted this dumpster fire. Trump promised jobs and better healthcare paid for by the government and “so much winning”. He said he was going to clean the darn swamp even! It sounded good and I think some folks really believed him.
Bless their hearts.
To be informed voters in 2020, we have a right to ALL of the facts.
I don’t care if it was “beyond a reasonable doubt” criminality, I want to know exactly what the Trump campaign was doing with Russia.
I want to know about a Trump Tower, how was it going to be financed? Whose $400 million was going to be used to pay for it?
I want to know if Trump used Deutschle Bank to launder money for Russian oligarchs.
I want to know how honest he is with his own wife.
I want to know everything.
And I have a right to know everything about the person who is supposed to be in charge of the country, our defense, our environment, our economy, our education, our health care.
I expect a President to be Honest, just plain Abe Lincoln honest— not “not criminally provable treason, so I’m totally exonerated” fake honesty — I mean Real Honesty — the kind your mother knows if you are telling the truth or not just by looking you in the eye honest.
How can we trust our children’s lives and futures to someone who not only never tells the truth, but does everything possible, even breaking the law, to keep the truth from coming out?
No honesty, no trust, and no vote.
And that’s why I expect Congress to keep drilling down until the truth comes out. Impeach him, let the Senate block it; then impeach him some more. Impeach him every week until November 2020. Impeach him a hundred times, until I get the Truth.
78
I think it’s time to start impeachment proceedings. Clearly Trump seems to think he and minions are above the law. Time to show him that he’s not!
16
@Anne V Yep, that'll DEFINITELY show him. 'Specially when the GOP controlled senate acquits.
Time is of the essence here. Democrats must take action swiftly and decisively. Our country is under attack, the constitution is under attack. Every day that goes by something catastrophic may happen and there is no leadership at the helm. Swift action before it is too late.
14
From the editorial: Congress’ motivation is pure “and to stop the president’s assault on the American government’s system of checks and balances.” The executive branch is coequal with the legislative branch. If the motivation is political (to get dirt on the president and continue to waste his time (and the country’s time and money)), the president is well within his rights to push back and not cooperate. This will head to the Supremes. Good luck on that!
1
@Delane McCloud, If the President can choose which congressional actions to ignore as political, then Congress cannot hold a corrupt and incompetent President accountable.
"Democrats’ most promising avenue remains with the courts."
Really?
In case the NY Times hasn't noticed, Mitch McConnell and the Federalist Society got there a long time ago. They have been busy turning the judicial branch into a partisan firewall to stave off Democrats and actual democracy for years now.
Citizens United opened the floodgates for dark money.
Shelby County crippled the voting rights act.
The Janus decision was a strike right at organized labor and its ability to fight for working people.
And let's not forget Mitch McConnell stole a Supreme Court seat.
There are extremist anti-abortion laws getting passed around the country, in the rush to get to a corrupted Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade - and kill off the right to privacy established by Griswold vs. Connecticut.
Trump is making jokes about the health of Sotomayor and Ginsberg, already celebrating the chance of packing the court with 4 justices before he's done with his first term.
Anyone who thinks we can still count on the courts to save us has not been paying attention. The judiciary is getting packed with conservative activist judges as fast as McConnell can run them through the Senate. They'll be there for decades.
The House Democrats should pursue every legal remedy as hard and fast as they can - but they had better fire up impeachment now while there's any of the rule of law left.
This constitutional crisis has been years in the making.
106
"arcane process has not been used since the 1930s" versus the arcane abuse of power and the process never seen before in the history of our nation. Hmm. Placing Barr in irons locked up in the basement of the House seems completely appropriate here.
Munckin would only print more money for himself if the House withheld his pay.
Constitutional crisis? The Constitution seems to be null and void at the moment with no checks, no balance and certainly no accountability or punishment.
So far it's clear that trump and Barr are both above the law. Indeed, who is to hold either to account? As for a finding of contempt? - the two are LOL.
If trump loses in 2020 he knows nothing will happen if he doesn't leave office - who'll make him leave? He does not recognize Congress or the judiciary when the time comes for them to decide or anyone else's authority - like the majority of American voters he disparages who voted against him, like the majority who voted against him in 2016 that he hates.
Besides, like all tyrants, leaving power means he becomes an accountable civilian again and can be indicted based on evidence detailed in Mueller's report. He now has a greater reason to never leave office - and desperate tyrants will do desperate things to keep power and remain unaccountable and trump will up the ante and do even worse.
14
Trump has the pulpit, a team, and the messaging machine.
Pelosi can not do this on her own. She says more in a few words than the rest of the D party says collectively.
....and the media has been reduced to an echo chamber, again.
Ultimately this is a Pelosi / Trump war, and she is smarter than Trump, but her predictable colleagues are not helping her.
5
The question is ultimately a political one. The House can impeach Trump, as is surely appropriate. The Senate will definitely not convict. Thus he'll still be in office in November of 2020. How will that affect the election? Will the people reward the House for finally having the gumption to do what is clearly right, or will the rage of Trump's base so energize them that the Democrats are overwhelmed? That is the calculation that counts. That and the question of whose orders the armed forces will obey.
8
@Thomas I'm betting on Trump, but that could just be because I despise the Left so much. Academically, it's probably hard to say who wins politically from Impeachment, which is why I think the Dems are struggling with it.
But, this also shows how gutless the Democrats (all of Congress really) are.
Impeachment is indeed in the wind, and there is a compelling argument for at least placing "articles of impeachment' on the record.
But here is the calculus for actual conviction in the Senate:
House leaders need to check with Senate Republicans to see if a "tipping point" is being reached regarding the removal of Trump.
If Senate Republicans become convinced that Trump has no chance of prevailing in 2020, they might want to give the House the go-ahead and move him out, thereby claiming they addressed his overreach and also opening up their primary field.
5
"...no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs."
That is exactly what should happen!
The House of Representatives should arrest AG Barr!
The House of Representatives should arrest Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin for refusing to follow the law by releasing 6 years of the Illegitimate One's tax returns to the House Committee!
The House of Representatives should arrest Don Jr. if he fails to show up for the Senate Intelligence Committee's hearing after receiving a subpoena.
The rule of law must be reestablished by whatever means necessary. Otherwise we are living under an incompetent dictator.
106
Just because it is an ancient law does not mean it is neither to be respected nor enforced.
Remind me again, how old is the constitution?
Does it mean, that supreme law of the land longer applies?
We better ask the president. Oh, wait.
12
In 2012, the same Democrats who are (hilariously) barking like a pack of wild dogs about a "constitutional crisis" related to White House resistance to subpoenas, literally just walked off the House floor rather than stand up for the House's subpoena power.
That's right.
Nadler.
Left the House floor.
Rather than vote to defend House subpoena power, and direct more pressure toward the White House.
But wait.
How can that be ?
Oh, that's right. I remember now.
That was when House subpoena power was being abused for purely partisan political reasons.
Republicans were looking for incriminating evidence on Eric Holder related to his iollegal operation Fast & Furious.
And that makes all the difference in the world.
When it is in the service of collectivist progressivism it's OK.
In 2020, bozos like Nadler are going to get their due at the ballot box.
5
@Objectivist
Nadler representes a CIVILIZED place in America -- NYC. The people of NYC know and despise this illegitimate occupant of the Oval Office and will gladly return Mr. Nadler to the House of Representative for as long as Mr. Nadler is willing to serve his constituents and the nation! They would never vote for Trump! NEVER!
Here are the major areas in Manhattan and Brooklyn that Mr. Nadler represents. Believe me when I tell you this is not Trump Country; it's a place where people KNOW Trump well enough never to be conned by him. And they (and I) LOVE Jerry Nadler:
"...the west side of Manhattan from the Upper West Side down to Battery Park, including the World Trade Center. It also includes the Manhattan neighborhoods of Chelsea, Hell's Kitchen, and Greenwich Village, as well as parts of Brooklyn such as Coney Island, Bensonhurst, Borough Park, and Bay Ridge. It includes many of New York City's most popular tourist attractions, including the Statue of Liberty, New York Stock Exchange, Brooklyn Bridge, and Central Park."
12
@NY Times Fan
It's nice to see that you are smart enough to not be conned by Trump, yet not smart enough to avoid being conned by Nadler.
OK, you love him. But the facts I stated above are on the record.
He is a career Democratic machine politician, an ideological collectivist progressive, a hypocrite of monumental proportions, and he will bear a lot of the responsibilty in 2020 when the Democrats get booted out of the House again - for putting on a fallacious spectacle like this phony "Constitutional crisis".
Sometimes the only thing to do is to do the right thing . God forbid that Congressman and Senators should actually protect and defend the Constitution and the citizens of the United States (!)
Impeachment proceedings would allow Congress to probe further into the potential criminality of Donald Trump and if this could be shown beyond a reasonable doubt you might even see a few Republicans turning in the other direction.
16
“There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts.”
Of course there isn’t. It’s against the law. It’s simple.
Democrats mustn’t confuse the issue by polling the popular response. They should define the narrative. Democracy literally depends on it. Country over party.
29
In a battle between a Democratic House and a Republican Senate, White House and Supreme Court, the Republicans will win.
If people are serious about stopping Trump they are going to have to take to the streets to demand his impeachment and to disrupt business as usual until they get their way.
The Democratic Party leadership is not going to take the lead in making that happen. Waiting for them to do so misunderstands how profoundly overcautious they are.
This situation is only going to go from bad to worse until ordinary Americans begin to take matters into their own hands and start clogging the streets in protest. Anything less will fall flat in the face of the naked power grab now unfolding.
Hopes that Senate Republicans or Supreme Court Justices will discover their consciences and do the right thing will rest on firmer foundations when they realize that the price of continuing to enable Trump will be civil unrest.
13
I'm sorry but I don't really see the downside of dragging Barr out of his office in handcuffs. As Popeye once declared, "enough is too much." Either Congress gets tough on the people who ignore its power or it loses that power. Donald Trump would understand this instinctively.
23
Arcane law sounds good to me. Lock them up!
12
I don’t care the manner in which it is done, just bring this cabal of outlaws to their knees. I am dispassionate about political party, any political party that demonstrates such disrespect for the law warrants removal. Any President who would instruct Cabinet members, current and former staff, and family to disregard the lawful obligations of a subpoena deserves disdain, rebuke, and impeachment.
Madam Speaker, draw the line in the sand and dare the Senate to cross it. If and when they do cross the line of lawful compliance, make them own it, and take their seats.
American Democracy as defined by the Constitution needs affirmation and defense. Keep it simple.
33
The stunning facts regarding a sociopathic president and a folie a deux leaning Congress is more than I can bear. At the end of the day there is something seriously wrong with a government that is unable to protect itself in times of such criminal magnitude. We all see it yet remain impotent to correct the ship of government and get it back on course. In the face of a packed Supreme Court and corrupt politicians it seems that this ship is doomed.
13
Don't think he much cares. 2020 gets here long before it goes to the Senate.
Nonetheless, Pelosi's got to work on her Rose Parade float-wave whenever she talks about the "Constitutional Crisis" or get a white glove.
1
Andrew Jackson decided to ignore a Supreme Court decision in Worchester v. Georgia, 1832. Chief Justice John Marshall gave the final decision. In response, Jackson is reported to have uttered: "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." Turn to current times: All Supreme Courts decisions rely on the contesting or involved parties to follow the decision. Is there anyone that honestly thinks Trump will follow a decision against him in these documents and testimony cases? While I am sure there is some validity for Trump wanting impeachment proceedings, I have a little different hypothesis and this hypothesis involves Putin. This hard line stance took over from Trump's previous vacillation on the release of documents and who could testify shortly after his phone call with Putin. So, hypothetically, Putin is giving Trump a test and that is to show Putin and the world that Trump can gain total control over our government; get rid of the checks and balances and become the sole head of the United States. Get ride of Congress's oversight, Putin can get Trump to eliminate the sanctions Congress has placed on Russia. Trump gains Putin's acceptance as strong autocratic leader - co-equals if you will and the creme de la creme is Putin takes credit for dismantling American democracy and with it its power around the world. Occam's Razor is generally correct, but sometimes left field produces better answers.
11
"The president has instructed Donald McGahn, the former White House counsel, not to comply with subpoenas for documents related to the Mueller investigation..."
If it is illegal to show contempt for Congress by ignoring a subpoena, how is legal for the President to order McGahn to ignore the subpoena? Isn't it true that an officer or soldier in the military chain of command could be court-martialled (or severely sanctioned) for ordering a subordinate to break the law?
Why should I accept our Commander-in-Chief ordering a subordinate government employee to break the law? Is executive privilege a platinum license to do whatever you want, with practically no consequences in the real world?
45
The Congress as a whole (and this includes Democrats who fear moving to impeachment because of "political calculations" as well as Republican enablers who have remained silent, despite their solemn oaths to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States) have an imperative duty to proceed immediately to impeach this lawless excuse for a president and his equally lawless attorney general, both of them. If open acts of obstruction of justice and blanket defiance of Congress's legitimate oversight authority is not enough (it sure was enough to support articles of impeachment against nixon) than what is? More than enough is known through the Mueller Report to support impeachment; there is no need wait to "see where the facts lead us", we all already know. Democracy is at stake, and the time for action is now. If not, prepare for trump to declare himself "president for life", to be succceed by Ivanka (Imelda) trump.
14
Democrats would be wise to expect the worst. Trump is not going to cooperate, he is not going to release his taxes or the Mueller report and he is not going to concede his future electoral loss. He will continue to predictably damage this country and its institutions as much as possible. You want to know how he will react? Expect the worst.
8
How do we stop Trump from becoming America's first dictator as he keeps moving in that direction with the full support of the GOP. When you read the Mueller report and NYT reports of Trump's finances and the rhetoric of his rallies it is clear he is unfit to be president. Trump got the job as the ultimate con artist with the help of his sponsor Putin .signing a tax bill that benefited him and his family and the rich and powerful . Trump sent Gulianni to Ukraine to seek their help in his re=election as apparently it is now ok to have foreign powers help you win elections. Ukraine is dependent on the USA now so it is like blackmail the type a mob boss would do as it seems we have John Gotti as president and he owns the justice dept.
9
If America is not to devolve into a dictatorship, there is one other avenue available, rarely used here but used when needed in other countries.
If Trump continues to defy Congress and defies court orders, it will be up to the PEOPLE to determine the fate of the country. If we sit back and chow down popcorn, the country will be lost.
But if the people TAKE TO THE STREETS and STRIKE with a mass sickout. We can bring the economy of this country to its knees. Trump would have no other option but to relent.
9
I pledge allegiance to the President of the United States of America, and to whatever values for which he stands, one Nation under his supreme leadership, endlessly divisible, with persecution and most grievous harm to all his enemies.
5
Hey, NYT. Chelsea Manning has been sitting in jail for 2 months because of refusing to testify before a Grand Jury. Doesn't Congress deserve as much consideration? You say at the end: "There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts." Defying Congress wasn't enough for you? You'll get worried when they defy the courts too? The NYT calling the Democrats' consideration of inherent contempt (i.e., jail time for subpoena evaders) "theatrical" is like Barr calling what the FBI does "spying". "Spying" puts a negative spin on investigating suspicious activity; "theatrical" puts a negative spin on consideration to address a dangerous erosion of the rule of law that has never occurred before. It's kind of like blaming the victims, only in this case it's blaming the people who are challenged with having to address the most serious threat to the US's democratic system there has probably ever been.
10
I wonder if Congress might consider censuring the President while things wend through the courts. Of course, Mitch McConnell wouldn't bring it up in the Senate, but Republicans in the House would have to go on record and there could be a useful floor debate about why he should be censured.
7
It's simple. Ignore Trump. Go after one of his appointees for which a credible case of impeachment can be made, with ferocity and without mercy.
At the same time, go after members of his family, and use exclusively Congressional and extra-judicial enforcement measures, including Congress' own guards and prison.
Trump respects nothing but apparent toughness. Make him cower.
The Democrats need to stop being concerned about being perceived as fair or ethical.
131
My husband spent years as a special education teacher. He did the job before the so called." experts," got involved, and made the field one, where more and more children were diagnosed with various behavior, and learning problems. What he found, which I had learned by observing how other parents tried to parent, was this, namely: Consistency in what the parent did, had more effect on how the child behaved, and responded to discipline, and good behavior. The Democrats as a group, have to decide what they want to do, why, and what is their desired goal, and then stick to the plan. Wavering around, has only allowed DT, just like a very angry, belligerent, and unruly child, to rail at the Democrats. Their behavior is only creating more determination to act out by DT, as he knows that he is getting the best of them.
19
I believe most of us know what happens if he defies both coequal branches. It's not going to be pretty.
10
Mr. Trump and his administration are breaking norms that have not been seen in the history of the Presidency. By comparison, the 80-year-old “power of inherent contempt” is positively modern.
When the President tries to thwart Congressional oversight, stating that he will reject all subpoenas and ordering all of his staff and former staff to refuse to testify, even when subpoenaed, Congress must use any means necessary to force the President to comply with the Constitution.
76
@HG
Really? Were you this beside yourself when Obama's AG Eric Holder stonewalled Congress over his disastrous Fast and Furious program that led to the murder of a US DEA agent, and he has to be held in contempt of Congress? Can't recall the Dems too concerned about a sitting AG playing games with a valid investigation to the point of contempt. Can't recall any hysterical Dems proclaiming a constitutional crisis over that one either, come to think of it.
2
@JW Really? You are going to equate one incident in the Obama presidency to the dozens in the Trump administration?
“Both sides do it” is pretty weak when you compare the two presidential administration.
1
Right now, the public is about evenly split on impeachment. If the Mueller investigation is completed, there was no investigation into Corrupt Donnie's finances (a motive for his conspiracy with Russia) and there was no publication of the counter-intelligence aspects of the investigation, and that information along with the continuous obstruction demonstrated by this administration, the public opinion will change.
With the change in public opinion, the Rep's in the Senate will split. If they don't, the Senate along with the House and Presidency will go blue. It might go that way in any case.
6
"Of course, if the president decides to flout any of the court rulings, the country could find itself in a deeper constitutional crisis. There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts."
Just yesterday, there was no precedent for a modern president openly defying Congress. So today, we add in the big "what if" with the courts.
None of this would be happening of course unless it was totally tolerated--indeed celebrated--by the president's adopted party. Note the word "adopted" because Donald Trump is certainly no life-long Republican, just one who suddenly realized that only one of the parties was likely to be totally corruptible. Not to mention try running against immigration on the Democratic ticket.
Either the president is practicing tyranny 101 or he is just doing what comes naturally. There are days I feel he's being "coached" somewhere by any one of the many dictators he admires.
But as maddening as this man is, it has to be even more maddening for House Democrats who are being prevented from doing their jobs.
21
Speaker Pelosi is probably right, Trump is taunting Dems, encouraging them to start impeachment proceedings.
Why? Most of the public does not consider correcting his unlawful behavior a top priority. In Trump country, they are skeptical that crimes were committed or that it’s important.
It needs to broadly feel like a crisis for impeachment to be politically sustainable. Otherwise, the Dems just look partisan. Maybe they vote to impeach, but Senate Republicans feel no pressure and bear no cost for failing to remove him.
Then Trump can add the fiasco to his victim narrative and argue he wanted to help America but Dems held him back with a witch hunt. The truth, that the Senate has killed helpful bills that Dems passed in the House, probably won’t reach likely Trump voters through their Fox filter.
So, what should happen? Following public opinion would suggest shrugging and moving on. Following their oath of office would mean starting impeachment proceedings. Being politicians means pushing to change public perception so that fulfilling their oath of office is not political malpractice/suicide.
It’s hard, but Speaker Pelosi probably has the right strategy. (1) Make the case to the American people by bringing out the Mueller report. (2) Impeach if the facts warrant it, if they can get the evidence before Trump leaves office.
That last bit is why Trump is stonewalling. If Dems can persuade the public that he committed crimes and it’s salient, his allies might turn.
12
@NotanExpert More people now are for impeachment of Trump than were for the impeachment of Richard Nixon when the Watergate hearings began.
4
@HG I don't know about that. Trump still has a 43.1% approval rating among likely voters, according to FiveThirtyEight. That's incredibly high considering how corrupt and incompetent he is.
Furthermore, when Watergate happened, people still generally believed in facts and there was no social media and no Fox News. We live in a different world today. What doomed Nixon in the public eye back then is when people heard that he cursed on the tapes. Now we accept our President being a vulgar sexist.
Trump supporters are perfectly willing to accept a dictatorship in this country. They couldn't care less about Trump's taxes; they don't care how incompetent he is or that he's destroying the environment. They cheer when he calls for restrictions on the Press and when he calls for violence against his "enemies". Polls show that they support Trump's idea that he should receive an extra two years in office. Polls also show that if Trump asked them to support the idea of postponing the 2020 elections, they would approve.
They don't care about his competence or policies because of what they do love about him. And what they love is his arrogance, racism, sexism, anti-semitism, nationalism and immigrant hatred. That's more important to them than their own well being or this democracy. And that's why we're in so much trouble.
And as Obama commented a few weeks ago, Democrats are forming a circular firing squad.
@Martin Brooks You are right; it is a different time, and there are more ways for Trump to fight back in the media.
But only 19% supported impeachment of Nixon right after the Senate began the Watergate hearing (Pew Research). 45% are already saying that Trump should be impeached (Reuters/Ipsos poll) and that is without knowing all the things Trump is hiding.
This is not rocket science.
Trump keeps defying all congressional subpoenas.
The House of Representatives must initiate impeachment proceedings.
Doesn't matter that the Senate republicans will likely not convict.
The House cannot ignore Trump's repeated and bold violations of the law.
Regardless of a conviction, GOP Senators must go on record as keeping the absolute most corrupt president in our nation's history in office.
So while Dems obey the law and Constitution, GOP Senators shun the law and support a con man who is attempting to strip them of their own congressional powers.
Makes perfect sense to GOPers.
30
I am hoping that the New York legislature acts quickly to get Trump's New York state tax returns into Congress's hands. In 1973-74, we learned that the best way to bring down a corrupt leader is to "follow the money."
11
@Dennis Mancl Actually, that is a fiction from the movie, “All The President’s Men”.
What brought Nixon down was “find the obstruction of justice”.
1
Trump does not consider himself bound by convention,precedent or the Constitution. All that counts is Trump.An American Emperor.What can be done? Impeachment is not the answer. Too distracting. Fight Trump in the courts relentlessly. And expose him in the court of public opinion. All of the deceit. All of the chicanery. All of the abandonment of traditional American values. And thrash him at the ballot box in November 2020. That is the American way.
5
Is Trump daring Congress to begin impeachment proceedings? No. He isn't taking any of the actions he does to provoke Congress.
So why has Trump - again - wholly disregarded the law by barring Congress to access to Mr. Mueller's Report, his tax records, and witness testimony? Because he can. Because he knows that no one can stop him. Because he knows that he has five votes in his back pocket with this Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court's kowtowing support explain all of Trump's moves. They have already toadied to him once with his Muslim ban, in which which the Court permitted with literally no factual evidence to support Trump's claim that it was needed for our nation's safety. And they are poised to toady to him again by permitting the citizenship question on the census -- a measure instituted for the sole purpose of instilling fear into our minority citizens. And they also appear poised to support his wholly fictitious "emergency" regarding "Wall" funding - again, a move not at all designed to solve our immigration problems, but rather, to target minorities.
So Trump understands that as long as Republicans control the Senate, he is limited - literally - only by his imagination and the laws of physics. He understands that any unlawful, racist, or criminal actions he takes will be rubber stamped by his five votes on the Supreme Court. Vote him out? Impeachment? Trump is laughing out loud at all of us. He knows that he may leave office at a time solely of his choosing.
6
Commencing impeachment proceedings against Trump is a worthwhile endeavor even if it ultimately goes nowhere because of the Republicans in the Senate. The concern that if there is a failed impeachment attempt Trump will declare "victory" and rub Democrats' faces in it in the 2020 election campaign is way overstated. The only voters stupid enough to buy that line are the ones who make up his base who will never withdraw support for Trump unless he is dead (and even then some of his die-hard fans will remain on board). I believe Democrats could get lots of mileage from ads pointing out that Trump is one of the very few Presidents against whom articles of impeachment were passed by the House and that the only reason he was not actually impeached is because of Senate Republicans who supported a traitor to the Constitution. Time to call Trump on his bluff.
12
@Jay Orchardk If the House passes articles of impeachment, the President has been impeached.
The Senate then votes on whether to convict and remove him from office. No mistake about it; if it gets to the Senate, Trump will have been impeached, regardless of the vote.
11
“But that arcane process has not been used since the 1930s, and no one seriously expects Congress to dispatch the House sergeant-at-arms to drag Mr. Barr from the Department of Justice in handcuffs."
Maybe the sergeant-at-arms could pay a few guys to go get him?
4
1) Impeachment is a bad idea. It will guarantee the president another four years in office.
2) Using the powers of contempt of congress to put Barr in handcuffs is also a bad idea. It would set a bad precedent. It would give future republican congresses precedent for putting their political opponents in hand-cuffs for less problematic offenses.
4
What we are finding out now is that the Executive is the most powerful branch. The Legislative as well as the Judicial branch need it to execute their decrees.
If it doesn't want to do that, then the other branches are powerless and the only thing that can save the country is the course laid out in the Declaration of Independence.
1
The Democrats are destroying themselves with this nonsense "investigation". It will backfire, and we will be stuck with Donald for another four years.
3
Those in power sense a certain immunity from justice, and by example they show the ordinary citizen that to some extent they are. I remember at the congressional hearing concerning the tobacco industry, how lying the CEO’s were. They kept on saying that tobacco, through scientific studies, never showed a relationship to cancer. They perjured themselves and there were no consequences.
trump is for all intents and purposes doing the same. Contempt? Big deal.
3
With his contempt of and for Congress, with his total and joyful disregard of our constitutionally-enshrined system of checks and balances, with his packing SCOTUS with his toadies, trump has effectively anointed himself dictator — with the approval of the republican party. The republicans have achieved the goal they have longed for. It’s time for action. The House must vote for impeachment, with the full knowledge that this Senate will not hold a trial. Accompanying the impeachment process, however, must be an intense campaign played out in the mainstream press educating the American public regarding what is at stake and why there must be impeachment. Trump’s (more than) 10,000 lies and along with his innumerable treasonous acts must be laid out loudly and clearly in simple terms for all to understand. Enough dithering already. Act!
6
@JMN Hey JMN, you say that what will be needed is "an intense campaign played out in the mainstream press." What do you think the mainstream media has been doing for the last three years? The public is sick of this nonsense and wants the Democrats and the mainstream media to just let it go!
1
No precedent for defying both the courts and Congress? Trump is already looking for someone to hold his beer.
1
1. The US Constitution does not give the Congress the right
to subpoena members of the Presidents cabinet.
2. The precedent to ignore such demands was set by the
Obama administration
From the NY TImes, June, 28, 2012
"House of Representatives on Thursday voted to hold Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in contempt for failing to disclose internal Justice Department documents in response to a subpoena. It was the first time in American history that Congress has imposed the sanction on a sitting member of a president’s cabinet."
The documents were finally turned over by the Obama administration in 2016
5
@talesofgenji
If Congress does not have the right to subpoena cabinet members then why do you cite an instance of Congress doing exactly that? Further, you point out that the Obama administration did eventually comply. Of course, that Congress was ruled by partisan Republicans who had publicly vowed to obstruct all of Obama's efforts. Now, did that Congress find anything? Nope. Did we find evidence that Trump is a criminal? Yep. Matter of fact, he has been displaying his criminality on TV since beginning his campaign. You can't compare an upstanding, successful and (most importantly) popularly elected President Obama to the criminal Trump. It just doesn't work.
3
How is it that Mr. Trump’s base—whoever that is—interprets his “burn it all down” approach to the law, precedence, and established institution as a governing principle in their favor? What or who will be left to fulfill their post-apocalyptic agenda after Mr. Trump has giddily smashed all the tools of government that could conceivably benefit them?
4
The Democrats opened the door and let the bull run through the china shop. Bad move. This will not end well for the Democrats who worked hard to regain the House. Every campaign promise to get elected is now off the table
2
Could Trump be hoping for impeachment so that Pence will pardon him for his crimes just as Ford pardoned Nixon?
3
With his disregard for the law, our constitution and our civility, Donald Trump is, not only, the worst American President in our history, he is the worst American ever, period.
10
Thomas Jefferson and James Madison are rolling around in their graves.
4
Is there no single, decent, moral, honorable man or woman who will stand up to Trump? Nobody? Men and women go to war, risking their very lives to protect the citizens of this country. Where are the heroes in our government? What power does Trump wield that nobody will call him out, tell truth to power, yank back the curtain to reveal this sham of a wizard?
Where is the next Joseph Welsh who will say, “At long last, have you left no sense of decency, Sir?”
4
This is the way a democracy dies and a dictatorship is born. What should cncern us most is that somewhere around 43% of Americans have rejected our Constitutional Republic for reality TV. The rest of us just go through everyday and do little or nothing. It reminds me of what a friend of mine told me about living in the Soviet Union during the Breznev period...she said it was like you were passagers on a boat and you couldnt do anything about where it is going and so you just ignore it. After more then 200 years of a Constitutional Democratic Republic we have allowed it to die. We all bear the responsibility. We have betrayed every drop of blood shed for the country that no longer exists. Shame on all of us.
4
It’s called executive privilege. Similar to attorney client privilege.
If the libs don’t like how Trump is applying, they can take it up with the Supreme Court.
Hope they continue this Presidential harassment though. Will help Trump win 2020. The best the libs can hope for is the economy to crash, as they’ve been predicting for almost 3 years now.
5
How dare you write this without mentioning Holder's contempt of Congress. Of course Nadler voted against it. No one said "constitutional crisis."
4
I don’t think Trump’s that smart. Hopefully the House won’t be that stupid.
1
The Democrat’s hype about Russian collusion contained in their now discredited Steele dossier is spinning out of control. The Independent voters are not amused...
3
@Charlie
Just because it seems, seems mind you, that Trump and his people were to inept to coordinate with the Russians, Trump's efforts to impede the investigation and to prevent Congress from following through with the Mueller report's findings amount to obstruction of justice. The only thing that is out of control is Trump, and his supporters in the Republican party.
3
What is the point of Mueller's investigation if the subject of the investigation can unilaterally declare it's conclusions and evidence off limits? It's preposterous. There is no doubt Mueller left this to Congress.
17
Well, I think a "Daniel Ellsberg" may be the only way we get to see the full report. I don't believe the senate republicans would vote to make the report public.
10
We may wake up one day soon and find that our democracy has slipped away from us, bit by bit. Through the turmoil of the late 60s and early 70s, I never felt it's fagility as I do now.
It would appear that congressional oversight may already be a thing of the past. Nixon couldn't escape it because there were still some principled Republicans on the hill at the time. They understood that presidential lies, cover-ups, and corruption did not serve them or the country.
What's next America? The GOP is now party of Trump. Is the USA going to become a plaything of an immoral despot (as is Russia and the Phillipines)?
53
Trump's strategy makes perfect sense. There is no more political risk to defying 100 subpoenas than 2 or 3. Trump's feral instincts inform him, correctly, that most House Democrats, by nature timid, are fearful of the political risks attendant to an open impeachment fight. The fact that Trump seems quite willing, perhaps even eager, to do battle over impeachment will only serve to further frighten them.
To the extent that a claimed executive privilege to defy a congressional subpoena raises an entirely legal issue, such issue can be dealt with expeditiously under a summary judgment motion. And if the legal issues are actually as straightforward as Democrats believe, getting a judicial decision quickly should not be too difficult.
The most interesting recent wrinkle in all this is surely the subpoena issued to Don Jr. by the Republican-chaired Senate intelligence committee. This action publicly undercuts the heretofore unanimous Republican position that the continued investigations are just more purely partisan witch hunts. Plus Don Jr. is not a White House employee and has no plausible claim to executive privilege.
Pundits have been looking desperately for a Republican officeholder to display backbone and integrity; maybe it's Senator Richard Burr. If the Trump strategy begins to unravel, this may be the loose thread that starts the process.
15
Trump isn't going to defy the courts. His entire strategy is to stall, hopefully until after the election. I promise you he has not thought 10 steps ahead, what if the courts do X Y or Z.
He wants to delay until after the election, because he needs to win. If he loses, he will be indictable again.
14
Trump can stay on as an impeached president.
But he has to be held accountable for his actions that were clearly outside the law.
5
We follow the rule of law wherever it may lead, and we hold any and all accountable (including the highest executive) accountable. Full Stop.
It is NOT a matter of which remedy would be the most effective, or the fastest, but that the Congress (which has clear and full oversight granted to it by the Constitution) use ALL of them.
If the Sargent at Arms needs to be dispatched to go grab individuals, then do it.
If financial penalties need to be enforced, then do it.
If people need to be taken to court, then do it.
If impeachment proceedings need to begin (a process and not necessarily a conclusion) then do it.
We are waiting for leaders to stand up and be counted, while holding people accountable so that no one is to be above the law - especially the office of the Presidency.
Get to it.
56
He certainly is. Because all that he's interested in is keeping his record hidden and his ratings among GOP voters high.
And the best way to achieve this is to avoid any debates of his record in the first place. And what could allow the media and his voters to get massively distracted from his record more than a House impeachment?
Thanks to the GOP controlling the Senate, Trump knows that he has nothing to fear, and will certainly not be impeached before 2020.
In that case, impeachment only has advantages for him: he can use it to strongly intensify the basic Fox News fake news that Democrats are "evil" and on a "witch hunt", and that alone may indeed be enough to fire up his base in 2020.
So yes, Pelosi is entirely right here.
The only solution will be to vote the GOP out in 2020, but that means that the political literacy of non GOP voters has to seriously increase by 2020, so that progressives no longer cultivate cynicism and imagine that staying home when Trump is on the ballot might actually be a good idea ...
1
Speaker Pelosi and the rest of the congressional Democrats have to decide how far they're willing to go while following a methodical course. Trump will likely stall forever given the chance; the courts may or may not agree with him, but I'll bet he'll drag his feet if not ignore court rulings. So the Democrats have to decide if they're ready to drop the I-bomb if it comes to that.
They also have to decide what battle they're fighting. The prize better be worth it. Would they impeach over failure to turn over tax returns? Or refusal to let Mueller or McGahn testify as to obstruction of the investigation?
I don't see how they can avoid the I-bomb. If Trump eludes all other remedies, they cannot let him run roughshod over the Constitution. And they'll have to be experts at the PR game to get public opinion to stick. And they have to ignore McConnell or Senate Republicans who say "case closed." They have to go all they way if that's what it takes.
2
Amid the newspaper reporting on this constitutional matter, the question that remains is what is going to happen to Trump's properties if they are under asset forfeiture laws as a result of convictions or civil penalties?
Civil forfeiture does not require a criminal conviction. It is a legal tool that allows law enforcement to seize property that is involved in a crime.
Trump's close ties to the Russians could lead to money laundering indictments, and this could mean unpaid IRS taxes on illegally obtained cash.
Also, the Trumps have a long history of dodging taxes that goes back to Trump's father, Fred.
Trump knows that loans by American banks, especially now that his poor business decisions and reckless practices have come to light through the NYT's reporting, have all but dried up.
The Russians are aware that any money they give to Trump disguised as loans will draw attention from the FBI.
Trump is terrified that his financial empire is slowly imploding.
Exposing every piece of Trump's financial records and documents methodically and steadily along with other evidence will gradually chip away at this lies and cons that he has perpetrated on the American people.
It will be the drip, drip that'll keep Donald Trump and his lawyers up at night wondering what pipe is about to burst and how they can write another incredible script and whether a different duct-tape solution will work.
"Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants." — Louis D. Brandeis
6
Putting aside any constitutional crises here, there is only one real threat to the Trump presidency, and he has been successfully avoiding it now for three years: his tax returns.
I expect that Congress, the media and countless experts would find enough illegality in those returns to send Trump to jail for at least as long as Bernie Madoff.
Everything else is just for show. Mueller and Barr have already decided that Trump is not indictable; does anyone really believe that getting the redacted portions of the Mueller report, or hearing McGann, Barr, and Trump Jr. testify again will change those conclusions? And what good is impeachment if the senate will never convict?
But those tax returns will finish him off for good. That’s what they are really after; what they have been after all along. They will get them.
And then it’s game over.
14
Impeachment is not about removal from office, it is about holding the executive accountable for actions that violate the Constitution, including obstruction of justice. Impeaching him would make it far easier for Congress to obtain the information it is currently seeking, because once indicted, failure to present that information is itself grounds for impeachment. Impeach now, his legacy deserves no less.
10
@expat
I don't see what that would change, concretely.
Of course, Trump will also refuse to comply with House demands once they launch an impeachment procedure. And yes, that alone, just like his current obstruction of justice, is enough ground to impeach him.
The GOP Senate will never do so, however, and Trump knows this. So he will simply refuse to comply to new demands of information under an impeachment procedure too, as he's already doing today ...
1
I understand the concern by Mrs. Pelosi that launching impeachment proceedings will increase support for Trump, but the "Constitutional crisis" she herself recognizes, demands that impeachment be initiated. What is clear is that Trump is daring the Democrats to take all of these contempt and obstruction charges to the courts, where he will appeal until they get to the SCOTUS where his "Gang of 5" will save him. No, impeachment is the only avenue that can compel Trump and others to testify.
The Democrats have proceeded methodically, and given Trump and his underlings more than enough opportunity to comply. Trump is wagering that he'll win the P.R. battle if impeachment is initiated, and among his base that is absolutely true. But his base is not the majority of Americans, and the majority voted in a battalion of new Congresspeople driven by a desire to see justice done.
Waiting for the courts to rule, aside from the SCOTUS safety net Trump has, will likely drag on until after the elections, as well as give him fodder for his "victim campaign". And given how Trump defied all odds to win in 2016 - with Russian help, and who knows what other subterfuge - banking on him losing is a bad bet.
Impeach Trump now!
4
For any system to work efficiently there has to be compliance. If there is not compliance there has to be an efficient manner to bring about such compliance.
Systems that depend on "good will" or normative behavior can only work when everyone plays by the rules or at least recognizes the rules.
In the present case, it is not even clear what the rules are.
While probably no one will agree with this view, Mr. Trump is actually doing the system a favor: He is showing how inefficient and cumbersome it is. He seems to have a canny ability to find the weak links and then threaten to take down the system.
Well, there seem to be plenty of weak links and worse.
The system cannot even get Mr. Trump to submit tax returns or financial records.
So yes, Mr. Trump is daring the Democrats to impeach him and the ensuing havoc, if they do, will serve to highlight the sloppy and inefficient nature of the whole process and maybe get him re-elected.
2
When Trump became President many people expressed concern that "he has the nuclear codes". I've always been more concerned that he had become Commander-in-Chief and might someday order the military to impose his will.
I fear that a historic crucible may be near; one where the men and women of the US military will need to choose between their Constitutional oath or their loyalty as soldiers.
3
We are at the point where our Nation will see if, to use one of the most important parental expressions used in building the trait of self-restraint, “No,” means, “No.”
The Democratic majority in the House was not elected to “go along to get along.” Does the Democratic majority act with the authority of its majority now and in the near future? Or, does it dawdle along until things are so bad, they have no authority because the Republicans all claim they’re only acting because of the media – not because there was legitimate wrong-doing?
The Constitution isn’t just filled with laws and norms. It’s the practical discipline of people living together and growing as a nation together. When we blithely say Trump is breaking norms that statement is too benign. What Trump is doing is breaking the discipline that is our birthright and that gives us the confidence to forge a future together.
25
"inherent contempt... has not been used since the 1930s"
Congress' oversight of the Executive is not an appeal to the Judicial. Yet, pretending 'inherent contempt' is 'radical' implies precisely this. Congress has a function to perform, which involves gathering intelligence. There is nobody, in the Executive or the Judicial, that Congress need appeal to gather this intelligence. And were the tables turned, how bad could it be? Would the GOP go so far as to impeach a President for lying about his escapades with an intern? I'm OK with that, as, it turns out, is the U.S. public. We've been down that road, and we knew who to blame for wasting our money. Mnuchin can give Congress the tax returns, or be subject to immediate incarceration. But if you give this President a minute of delay, he'll take another four years, and that is unpardonable. No one in America is going to forgive you for that.
57
The political calculus Democrats seem to forget is, their constituents are needing, waiting for them to do something. If they don't hold Trump accountable, then those who already lean left will see the Democratic Party as weak, uncommitted, and impotent.
If we don't enforce our nation's laws, then do we even have a government?
62
It's obvious that Trump is out of control and the more he says the more it's obvious just how unhinged he is becoming. At the same time the attacks on our Constitution and our institutions increase and the assaults on common sense continue unabated. All the while the republicans in the House are mute and it is assumed that if he were impeached that the republicans in the Senate would vote as a partisan bloc to acquit even though the evidence has not yet been unveiled.
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The mode with which Democrats choose to communicate their path forward is a problem. In this case, the madam is the message: Nancy Pelosi is so detested by Trump's base and hated by so many Republicans that even when she speaks in simple legal truths and measured, rational tones, the ideas behind them are dismissed as partisan politics.
At this juncture, someone else on the Dems side has to come out sounding less lawyerly and more down home, laying out the case for contempt in the same blunt and simplified way Trump communicates his obstinacy, couching their argument in terms of patriotism, decency and an American sense of fairness.
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The catch is, it’s all well and good for Ms. Pelosi to talk about impeachment if and only if that’s really in the cards. Otherwise, it’s an empty ultimatum. And as with an unruly child, Trump will be ever more brazen as he sees no follow through with threats.
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@NM
Trump is a bully and a sociopath. A law unto himself. Nothing in this world is more important than preserving his self esteem. Not the rule of law. Not the well being of the nation itself. He'll continue to push the limits of executive orders, ignored subpoenas, and whatever else his advisors can devise until he reaches the last straw.
Then it's up to congress to decide who's the adult.
Some will say 'let the voters decide in 2020 what's to be done'. I say the voters have already decided. In 2018. That's why the house flipped to the D's, that's why his life became more complicated in January.
Most likely course will be increasingly erratic behavior by Trump as he tries to distract from a growing list of issues with his administration until he's given 'the talk' like Nixon had to consider. A congressional rep details his impeachable offenses, reviews evidence of same, then leaves him with a pen and a blank legal pad to write his response or resignation.
The Trump administration will not become the permanent style of governance.
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Jack Balkin, a Yale law professor who has written in-depth about what constitutes a constitutional crisis recently opined that:
"It's the Constitution itself that constitutes a crisis, because it sets up this byzantine system of separation of powers we often refer to as checks and balances that turns into a ping pong game without a definite end to it. The attempt of the Trump administration to run out the clock to keep the House from getting relevant information is part of the game."
He said that there is one very simple way to gauge a real crisis. "You know there's a crisis when people are marching in the streets or you get some sense of potential disorder," He concluded by noting that "people don't seem to be marching in the streets about this."
We the American people have become incredibly complacent in playing our own part in expressing our voices to provide checks and balances on the current administration. If we truly believe that there is a crisis why are we not peacefully demonstrating our concerns in the public forum rather than in op-eds and commentaries? We do not have to stand by and watch the slow and excruciating showdown between the members of Congress and the president. We can act. We have the right to speak out. It has been done before. The question is whether we will ever mobilize to do it at this crucial moment in our history starting with a massive march on Washington? I think not.
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Exactly. I will show up, anytime, anywhere. Resistance groups like MoveOn will not get another penny from me until they use my money and it’s power and platform to organize this.
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@Betsy Groth APRN Maybe the Parkland students who got tens of thousands to descend on Washington in a very short window can teach the country how to do it or women's march organizers or elders from MLK march. Someone, some group. This is the time to show the world like they have done for us like the 250K demonstrators against Trump in the UK last year. What are we waiting for while we complain and complain?
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@HP
Mob justice and hysteria won't achieve anything other than to embolden our blustery little tyrant.
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Yes, I would go for impeachment hearings and produce a comprehensive set of Articles of Impeachment. And I wouldn't worry about political calculations. Send the Articles of Impeachment to the full House of Representatives for a vote. Then force the Senate to consider and vote to convict or not convict. This is the only path that Trump will not be able to block via court and other legal maneuvers. A little political history here: In 1998-1999 when the Republicans in the House impeached Bill Clinton on flimsy grounds and the Senate did not convict, the Republicans still won the White House in the 2000 despite their shameful behavior. In other words, the forthcoming 2020 presidential votes will be influenced by a lot of factors and the Democrats will not lose, if they do, based on voters being upset with a Trump impeachment. PPS: Remember also, to actually convict Trump, that only one Article of Impeachment needs to be approved by the required minimum of 67 senators. Maybe (of course highly unlikely) that could happen. Then Trump would truly be in the history books.
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"There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts." But there is a precedent for Congress using the power of inherent contempt, and while it hasn't been used in a long time the constitution is clear; Congress has this power to fullfill their responsibility to oversee the executive branch.
Because of Trumps actions to defy completely the authority of Congress, Congress must resurrect their inherent power. Trump has left them and the country with no alternative.
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When the executive has no principles and controls the Justice department through a toady, very little can be done. This has exposed yet another flaw in the Constitution.
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"There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts."
I'm taking bets on a new precedent being set. Even odds.
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@Jim Cricket
I, too, think we'll see the setting of a new precedent. Hopefully it will swiftly be followed by the seating of a new president.
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@Jim Cricket The precedent I want to see is the Congress holding an annual vote of confidence/no confidence as part of the State of the Union.
If the vote is confidence, we have a moment of unity. If the vote is no-confidence, removal from office through impeachment begins and 'could end' at that very SOTU as all key parties are present.
The immediate removal of the president from office occurs if 2/3 of the senate also voted no-confidence.
In the future I imagine a unifying annual vote of confidence as a reminder to future presidents that they will judge their administrations by the number of unanimous votes of confidence they get.
While that would solve our immediate problem if it were precedent, the visual of the former POTUS being cuffed at the door of the House Chamber and then led off in a perp walk, is still my inspiration.
@neomax "In the future I imagine a unifying annual vote of confidence as a reminder..."
Bringing in some of the Parliamentary traditions wouldn't be a bad idea. Not sure how it would fit though.
Impeaching Trump is easy based on what we know with no need for other information. The system disintegrates if the GOP doesn't have the gumption or ethics to honestly look at the charges in the Senate. A failure to remove on the facts makes the system irretrievably broken - a true constitutional crisis.
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"There is no precedent for a modern president openly defying both Congress and the courts."
No, there isn't, but we are in uncharted territory. This president knows that he has little to lose by defying House subpoenas and Democrats' demands for documents and details of, especially, the Special Counsel's unedited report.
The president has much to fear from an appearance by Donald McGahn before the House subcommittee. We do not know if he would obey his ex-boss; what we do know--or at least suspect--is that the president is on very thin Constitutional ice in ordering anyone not to obey subpoenas or to appear before lawful tribunals. He is behaving like someone who knows that he's got something behind a door that he doesn't want anyone to see.
The Burger Court, in 1974 (United States vs. Nixon) unanimously ruled that the then-president must yield up tapes and other documents to a federal court. His defense of executive privilege did not apply, the Court ruled. How the Roberts Court would (will?) determine Donald Trump's claims of executive privilege are soon to be, if they aren't already, the Constitutional points at issue that will determine if the president is above the law and if this current Court is in place to preserve his determination to withhold information from a House that, since the mid-terms a year ago, he now deems hostile and intractable in its demands.
The president is trying the patience of not only Congress but the nation. He should not prevail here.
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@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
Interesting comment. There is obviously going to be a showdown sooner or later between Congress and Trump and probably it will end up being decided by the Supreme court as in 1974.
But the Republicans have spent years laying the ground work for the creation of a far more conservative Judiciary and have been very successful particularly with regard to the Supreme Court. Who knows. Perhaps the Court, unlike in the Nixon era, will rule in Trump's favor.
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Do we really think the top court of the land will support Congress? I would be cautious about that. I would also be cautious about expecting all the courts to prevent Trump from stalling until after the presidential election.
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@Thomas Zaslavsky
The American people are already so sick sick sick of Donald Trump.
Vegas must be taking odds on which crisis he will invent to divert attention away from the day his taxes are released to Congress from NY State.
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