As mean as it may sound, the children who actively took part in the alleged fraud must also be prosecuted. If the children of parents involved posed on a row machine and they were not a part of a crew team, then it seems obvious that they knew some kind of dishonesty was taking place. While they may have been pressured by parents and be otherwise good kids, ignorance of the law and pressure from peers and/or anyone else, is not an excuse to break any law. Their culpability may or may not be as what's alleged about their parents, but they do deserve some form of punishment.
1
Maybe she’s counting on the O.J. Simpson effect; if the scores don’t fit you must acquit.
10
I'm not in agreement with all the hate that these people are getting. Obviously they were misguided, and there should be some appropriate penalty but, to read some opinions posted herein, you'd think that they committed murder.
15
@EJ McCarthy Really they are the wrong color to be really bad people?
12
@EJ McCarthy Fraud, bribery, and money laundering are not to be taken lightly. And most of us here would not have the million dollar lawyers that Loughlin and hubby have to help them get out of this mess they created.
28
My strong suspicion is that this is the tip if the iceberg. This parents who have donated millions to institutions, whose kids had similar academic backgrounds and were similarly admitted. Defense lawyers are going to open this up and expose the system for what it is. Rigged. No wonder Loughlin thinks she did nothing wrong. Compared to legacy and large donations-based admissions, she is small potatoes. Finally, though.... hat's off to Huffman, who I believe operates from a different place and is not allowing the relativity of it all to excuse her bad judgment.
195
@MClaire
Donations to a university or college are not illegal. But blatant bribery of coaches, faking disabilities and changing test answers to achieve a higher score, are.
144
@Cal Yes, but as a trade for admission it should be. Especially when grades are not at the level of others who are denied whose parents can't afford donations.
40
@Cal Donations are not illegal but what about schools that implicitly ask/suggest large donations to get their kid admitted or keep their failing kid in said school? These schools know who has big money - and they want it.
14
At most I think these college admissions schemes are mere administrative crimes and the public embarrassment should be enough. What a show instead! So much shaming in the media. I can’t understand the fascination...did people not understand that wealthy people can buy their children’s way in schools?
14
@Chris McClure: People of color go to jail for lesser crimes all the time. Why do we think white people's only punishment should only be shame and embarrassment? (I'm white.)
218
@Chris McClure Lori and the other parents claimed these fraudulent payments as tax deductions! That's more than an administrative crime it's violation of the RICO Act.
48
@Chris McClure You clearly don't understand the criminal justice system. Money laundering and fraud are crimes. Donating a million dollars to a university is not (it may not be fair, but it is NOT a crime).
33
I'm on the complete other end of the spectrum here. She is no different than the donor who gives $1million to the endowment or to fund the construction of a building. Everybody knows someone whose parents did this and the university admitted them at the expense of the students who were more qualified. If I were on the jury I might laugh at the prosecution. The guilty party is the guy who facilitated all of it. For all they knew, based on what has been going on for hundreds of years, the university was in on it. I'm so sick of this nonsense. This is not a scandal. It's just lifestyles of the rich and famous and for that I don't blame Lori Loughlin.
15
@Jonny Walker A key difference is that it wasn't the university that got the money, but a rogue employee, so in a sense the university was also a victim.
Also, this may be a case of the coverup being worse than the crime; donations to a false charity to hide the act (and probably to claim a tax deduction), which is why it's now a money-laundering case, too.
83
@Jonny Walker Donating a building is legal. Money laundering and mail fraud are illegal. A donated building benefits the entire college community for as long as it stands. Committing crimes on behalf of your kid benefits only your kid and the guy you paid the bribe to and hurts the deserving kid whose place your kid stole.
120
@Jonny Walker
Concur 100%.
All her lawyers need to do is call up all the donors who have made donation to the university and demand that the SAT scores of the admitted offspring are also laid open.
The embarrassment to those donors would be massive.
To avoid that, the universities will withdraw their complaint, I suspect. I think she has an excellent case of getting off scott-free.
1
Yawning, these terrible people. It's just not fair that they cheated to get in college. Don't they know how to cheat on their own like many self-reliant students do? Life ain't fair, just look at poverty, sickness, and disasters. Nothing to see here folks, lets move on to other examples of how unfair life is.
1
I have a hard time understanding what advantage is gained by doing this to your own child. The message here seems to be, "I know you can't hack it, so I'm going to cheat to get you in the school I want you to attend." What would induce a parent to tell their child that? Cui bono?
I prefer the old way, the way my parents used with me and, I am sure, many of you enjoyed. I learned from an early age that an education is a valuable possession in many ways. My parents outlined their financial limitations and told me I deserved the best education I could attain. I worked hard and received precisely that.
What seems to be overlooked by many here is that these youth were being shoved into situations where they simply would not fit. What kind of an education is that?
29
@Frank I believe the message here is "I need you to go to this school so I can brag about it on social media." I doubt education has anything to do with it.
3
If a 18 year old African American male was arrested selling drugs, I have a feeling that a defense of “it was my parent’s idea and they sold drugs too” would fall on deaf ears. The complicit students should face charges, and they and the other students who were unaware of their parents cheating on their behalf should be expelled.
6
It must be nice to be rich and know that no matter what crime you commit you'll never go to jail your life will not be ruined nor will you get a life sentence which all crimes carry now. Once again we see just how vile corrupt and hateful our entire hateful justice system is.
6
The most difficult thing for me to comprehend is what they had in mind to buy their way in in the first place. Was it for the students or for their parents? Do students really benefit from this kind of help? If they didn't make the grade going in, how will they be able to meet expectations? Parents do like to say their kids are attending a certain University. Will this lead to a successful adult? I feel that as parents we each have a responsibility to our children to give them the best tools possible to succeed in life. How is it possible to help build their character if we say it's ok to cheat sometimes?
9
The answers are the opposites of all those implied in your rhetorical questions. It is nearly always to the student's advantage to go to the highest-ranking college she or he can get admitted to, just as having more money, a better house, better looks, a better computer or phone will usually be better. Would you rather have a Seiko or a Patek Philipe?
My response may seem crude to many, but my point is to reject the myth that the competitive "merit" system of competitive admissions places students according to academic ability levels. That is a much more insidious form of "rankism" than simplisticly glorifying/buying into prestige hierarchies of universities. I'll explain why.
There are two ways to think about being admitted or not admitted at a competitive school: Disparities in talent or disparities in achievement capital like grades or SAT scores: they are not the same & rarely coincide straightforwardly.
Competitive college admissions put students in a credentialing "strategic arms race" in which strategic imperatives force educationally (intellectually) wasteful efforts to maximize points distorting actual learning. The system largely tests the student's adherence to gamesmanship practices, as Princeton Review (SAT learning vs. real learning) methodology proves.
If a student bypasses the "strategic arms race" practices, if her or his underlying ability is up to the institution's demands (usually the case: most students can get through anywhere), going "Ivy" will pay.
3
To expand upon my previous comment: displaying a college sticker may seem bragging - and doubtless often is - but please don't forget that these stickers (and the shirts, etc.) are publicity for the college.
1
Paying off the wrong people can get you in jail.
4
To the Times: I expect more from you, and yet you follow the herd and every one of your articles mentions by name or name+photo the two actors involved and leaves out the names of the many others. Two women are now the only names most people identify with this scandal. I am not saying they aren't guilty. That will be verified by the legal system. I'm saying it's too easy - and a cheap shot - to focus on two celebrities and make them the symbol of this problem while others are spared the public scrutiny and, potentially, future hits to their careers.
9
The authors of this story make a point in the first sentence that 50 people have been charged with crimes. They fail to mention that literally millions of SAT and ACT tests were administered during that period without apparent incident. Does the Times not think that perspective is relevant or context is worth providing? I surely do. If I wanted the tabloid POV I'd buy a Post.
Also, why are Huffman and Loughlin the "faces" of these crimes? Where are the back stories and mug shots of the rich billionaire males who committed precisely the same crimes, and presumably outraged your readers' sensibilities equally? They are buried in the final paragraph (no photos)....again. This story has a real sexist, piling on feel to it.
You need to do better.
15
@Laurence Bachmann. Get real Larry; all you have for an argument is it's sexist? Everytime there is an article expressing what an athlete/actor/actress and/or celebrities thinks about any given situation it is headline news. Now that one of these highly thought of individuals are exposed for illegal acts you pronounce it as sexist. Your bias is so obvious.
1
Both of these smug, detestable women need to see the inside of a jail cell for at least 3 years, if for no other reason than to prove to them and the AMERICAN people that no one is above the law and money can't buy justice.....though it often does.
It's time to make an example of those that flout the law and believe it's their right to do so.
7
She has the legal right to plead however she’s like to. If she has any common sense, she’s working a plea deal for herself where she keeps her daughters out of jail.
4
Ok, the whole world is getting very weary over this school scandal.
No one got hurt or died.
We all know that the wealthy and celebrities have been buying their way into elite colleges for decades.
Does anyone really believe that Donald Trump got into Wharton based on his own merit?
Trump still brags that he was top of his class. But Trump's lawyer, testifies under oath that Trump ordered Cohen to send letters to all of Trump's schools and the SAT College Board threatening them if they ever released Trump's grades or scores.
4
@JM From the land of make believe and where anything goes surely you don't expect anyone to believe your comment!
1
I went to community college before transferring to a university. Loved it. Small classes and affordable. No need for student loans. I will always be grateful.
12
Did people really believe that wealth equals high IQ? That all those wealthy kids in top colleges and universities are there because they are brilliant? That geniuses and really smart kids cannot be born to poor people?
Highly intelligent and hard-studying poor and middle class college students have been surrounded by the low and barely average intelligent, yet rich students, for generations. They clearly see how those fellow students must have gotten into their schools.
15
As an alumnus of one of these "elite" institutions, I am increasingly embarrassed by the day about my alma mater. From pay-to-play admissions to policies that racially discriminate against Asian applicants, these institutions are losing moral and intellectual credibility.
12
@Sarah Johnson There is no "racial discrimination" against Asian applicants at "elite" institutions.
1
I'm glad prosecutors are finally targeting the students in addition to the parents. They deserve criminal scrutiny. I don't think anyone should feel comfortable leaving fraudulent students to the opaque and arbitrary university system. Academic institutions are well known for delivering wildly inconsistent outcomes for a variety of student violations. The difference between going to one college over another can mean the difference between a criminal record or no punishment at all.
Personally, I think prosecutors should target the oblivious students along with the complicit students too. "I didn't know" is not an excuse. The fact of the matter is you ought to know. When you submit a college application, you endorse the application as true and accurate to the best of your knowledge. The student therefore has a responsibility to review the application for fraudulent information independent of their parents. Ignorance does not absolve the student from this responsibility.
I'll grant some leniency for minors. However, we do have a juvenile court system for exactly this reason. Bring all the students in and let the judge decide.
20
@Andy
Laughlin's daughters posed on an exercise machine in a photo that was doctored to appear as if they were in a boat participating in an athletic event. They were later accepted by USC based as members of the crew team. Of course they knew--they participated in the photo and applied to the school as athletes.
That said, I would also hesitate to charge them with participating in their parents crime unless they were the ones who had decided on the fraud and enlisted their parents support.
7
Lots of criticism of Ms. Loughlin and her not guilty plea here.
Ms. Loughlin does have the right to a trial in a court to answer these charges.
2
@Sendero Caribe
I like that Loughlin is going for it. The others just took a plea to avoid having to air their dirty laundry and make this nightmare just go away.
Loughlin wants it all out in the open.
We must consider how incredibly professional and persuasive this very savvy mastermind, Singer, actually was.
Over the many years, he had perfected a highly sophisticated "marketing scheme" and somehow manipulated scores of otherwise intelligent coaches, athletic directors and College Board personnel into thinking they deserved some 'bonuses" after years of receiving just a meager coaching or teaching salary.
And the parents? well we all know why the rich fell prey to Singer's incredible "Side Door" offer.
1
As a lawyer for thirty years, my prediction is that she and her husband walk away from this with a fine and some community service. The court system has long-favored whites over people of color and it always favors the rich of any color. No matter the charges, if you are wealthy enough and hire the biggest law firm in town with the ability to file motions to delay, delay, delay criminal proceedings, the accused will eventually walk away with no jail time.
It's the way the legal system works. Forget case precedent; forget the law. If you have enough money, it's all you need. When I went to (a Jesuit) law school in the 80's, the advice from day one was, "if you want justice, take thee to the seminary." I'm not sure you'll find justice anywhere these days but you definitely won't find it in the American court system.
35
Yes they should. The wheels of justice go round and round.
2
The Gianullis not pleading guilty? If editing & staging a photo of your kid on an ergometer and claiming that she was a skilled coxswain when she never rowed competitevely or otherwise participate in crew, just to get her accepeted in USC is not an expression of guilt,what is it ,then? As far as i am concerned creating a fake and phony profile of your children(let alone paying bribes to officials) is a fraud no less so i don't understand all the parents doing so (with or without the knowledge of their children) and still claiming they are innocent.
23
@Caroline
Everyone initially pleads not guilty at their arraignment. That’s standard procedure and advice from your attorney, regardless of the charge and early disclosure of evidence in the news. That buys time to get the prosecution’s full evidence on discovery, which includes witnesses. This is required by law.
The legal system is not that simple where a guilty person, when caught, rushes in and admits to charges and are then sentenced. For them, there would never be any trials. Delays also gives time to negotiate with prosecution.
3
@Caroline, Ah, Caroline, the legal process is not really about guilt, innocence or truth. Meanwhile, down in Florida.... can’t wait to see the video.
They should all serve time. The added charges to Lori Loughlin and husband are based upon her turning down a sensible plea deal and of course having the right to fight the charges based upon their using her and her husbands great wealth. What they’ve said is they’ll roll the dice. Now this huge big teeth hi power law firm will take every inch of their situation to portray an alternate universe. The feds made charges based upon evidence and testimony.
At trial as others says it will be “if the evidence fits, you must convict.”
Let the fun begin! Can’t wait to follow this racketeering crime saga. Her daughters should be charged.
17
There are plenty of legal, though ultimately despicable, ways for wealthy parents to cheat their offsprings’ way into college. All they really had to do was to spend enough money, but it had to done over a long period of time, and with significantly ore money than these ninnies laid out.
A $25 million donation for a building will do the trick, apparently, for most of the Ivies. Significantly less than that apparently worked when directed toward things like sailing teams.
I notice that so far, none of the bribes were directed toward academic programs.
Not mentioned is the fact the the Ivies show no inclination to return the bribe money.
Also not mentioned nearly enough is what the parents’ actions say about what the parents actually thought about their children:
Too dumb to get in on their own.
The “children” who knowingly participated in the fraud—the ones who suddenly developed learning disabilities that required additional time, or the assistance of another adult to take the tests, and who watched the “assistant” correct their answers knew the same thing.
The “children” who sat on rowing machines, or posed for photographs showing them in sports attire for games they never even played also knew the same thing.
For the cheating parents: serious jail time under whatever applicable laws exist.
For the knowingly cheating children: expulsion, and loss of any academic credits they may have attained.
21
@Judy Gee "Cheating" isn't a crime; money-laundering is. And the penalties are pretty clear.
3
Caitlin Flanagan wrote a fascinating article in The Atlantic entitled "They Had It Coming." It's well worth reading.
One of her best lines:
"...after having read the 200-page affidavit many times and trying to be as objective as possible, I had to conclude that the uncontested winners of Worst People (So Far) to Be Indicted are Lori Loughlin, an actress, and her husband, Mossimo Giannulli, a designer. "
21
Why weren't these folks getting their children into college the old fashioned ways - using personal and or business connections or donating a library wing, science lab, or dorm? The latter have the advantage of being legal deductible contributions. Often the tried-and-true methods are the best - and keep you out of jail.
4
My we see pictures of the men who are millionaires and hedge fund managers and CEO's who are involved in this criminal activity. Seems all we see are the two famous actors.
39
Nonsense. But funny. They are well known. Doesn’t matter because we will know them all as the pleas fall in place.
3
Millionaires are actually just middle class in the US. Questions how Trump family members get into UPenn with the level of intelligence they exhibit.
11
These parents, as well as some of their children, KNOWINGLY cheated to gain entry into a system that has numerous ways "to cheat" legally.
Hold them accountable for their crimes.
And no, their punishment cannot be the shame and loss of prestige they've endured by being caught ...
23
If I were the defense attorney, I'd draw attention to the degree to which meritocracy is a fraud, citing everything from M. Young's satirical dystopia novel "Rise of the Meritocracy" to Nicholas Lemann's "Big Test, the Secret History of the Meritocracy" to David Brooks' essays on the subject, to Donald McCabe's reports on the prevalence of cheating (& hence general unreliability of most traditional quantitative achievement tokens), to Lester Ward's critique of Social Darwinism (reported by R. Hofstadter), to the Bible itself, which prohibits saying "By my powers & the strength of my hands I achieved this" & in Ecclesiastes "Some by evil rise, & others by virtue fall." I'd also bring up the book "Excellent Sheep."
And, as I mentioned in another comment, crew, when you think about it, is like simulated galley slavery ("Row well & live," as Ben Hur is told): you supply power & energy rowing for a master w/ total control of direction. It is a perfect metaphor for what we call "meritocracy," as Michael Young would have enthusiastically acknowledged.
So much of the process, from shallow cram-learning purely for test regurgitation to "time served" (or miles rowed) extracurriculars amounts to veritable HAZING of youth, destroying their childhoods. That that kind of social darwinist decades-long trial-ordeal is character- (much less intellect-) building is proved preposterous by seeing so many who pass for winners in it, now in prison or greedy exec narcissists.
[email protected]
4
@Andrew
You make excellent points. However, by pointing out the fact that the system is corrupt and so many other people are bad, doesn’t excuse you from your actions. A thief cannot be given a pass or leniency for his actions because there are so many other thieves, including many who are even worse.
Btw I have worked with Don McCabe when he was here at Rutgers-Newark, and from my own experiences as a dean of students adjudicating academic integrity violations, the cheating begins in high school and continues throughout college. So these students who cheat their way in with the help of their parents will mostly certainly continue down that path.
@Andrew Not being charged with cheating, but money-laundering.
1
Loughlin’s not guilty plea speaks volumes. She’s either the entitled celebrity who thinks she’s untouchable, or she’s an ignorant Pollyanna who is receiving terrible legal advice. Either way, she’s still an adult who committed fraud.
26
@Scott--Perhaps she is merely exercising her right, yes right, to a trial.
2
@Sendero Caribe
Perhaps. We’ll see how that works out for her.
On one side people going to jail for lying about living in a better school district than they had the right to (e.g. https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-mom-jailed-sending-kids-school-district/story?id=12763654), then "legacy" students whose daddy made it into Harvard so sonny boy has got to, too (https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/663629750/legacy-admissions-offer-an-advantage-and-not-just-at-schools-like-harvard), then Jared Kushner who made it into Harvard because his dad donated 2.5 M$ and this is the scandal? USC?
15
@elmueador
Oh GROW UP!!
Large donations like that benefit ALL students.
That $2,500,000 is worth - EVERY YEAR - enough income to the school to
(1) Produce at least $50,000 in money to spend on 'stuff' -operating costs, improvements, financial aid
and
(2) top up the original donation to keep up with inflation s it will yield a comparable amount of money to spend the next year
No one with every going to hand over that kind of money without some benefit in return.
Don't want schools to take large donations like that? Then increase the tuition of all students to make up the lost donation income
4
@elmueador I have to say that while I agree that inequity is a fact of life at universities, I am tired of this pillorying of legacy students. I and my daughter were both legacy. We both had 800 board scores, and she is truly exceptional. Legacy does not mean unqualified. And in case you're wondering about her 'daddy,' yes he went to the same university - first generation of his family to go to college. Further, neither of my brothers or my son were accepted. Maybe we could save some of this outrage for the process that allows sports team coaches to have guaranteed admission spots?
3
@AnnS I assume a private school, like Harvard, can admit anyone it wants to.
Here's the deal. They did a disservice to their children, by conning their way into a school they children didn't deserve to be in. They did a service to their egos by announcing what college their kids got into. All about the optics. I have one son in college and the other about to make his college decision in a few days. I can't tell you how parents talk about schools (which many can't afford) it's crazy. Just another designer brand for parents to flaunt.
9
Unfortunately what will happen is she might serve some community time, then off to the talk show circuit where she will be described as a wonderful person and her child will be described as incredible, awesome and has done everything by herself and never helped by mommy. It’s so phony and predictable.
10
Many articles have told us that students did not know that their answers were changed on the SAT/ACT. However, those students must have known that they didn’t have a disability that required them to get extra time on standardized tests and required them to take the tests in a room by themselves. What type of conversations did their parents have with them about getting testing accommodations? Did they say “ we are going to an educational psychologist for testing, make sure you give the right answer so you can get extra time on the SAT?” This behavior might not be criminal, but I believe these kids knew they were gaming the system by getting accommodations they did not need. And what about the psychologists who gave these diagnoses? Someone needs to look at how many of these diagnoses they are giving out.
36
The problem is that these children become professionals in positions of responsibility where they cause more damage to fellow workers, the company and to society.
Character is like cement , there is only a small amount of time to form it after which it's pretty much set.
18
I wonder how the admission office, or director, who was duped into admiring Laughlin's and Mossimo's daughters is feeling these days.
Personally, I don't understand how USC's, Stanford's, Yale's, et al directors of admissions still have their jobs. Or the directors of athletics. Do these folks never audit their subordinates' work?
29
@Person if I were in that situation, I would blame the system. People say "We all knew it was happening" and so did they so they took advantage of a system that was already broken. The staff at colleges created the broken system.
I'm still a student, but if I had kids I would play by the rules of the system so that I wasn't at a disadvantage. Realistically donating high amounts to a school usually accomplishes the same goal as bribing your way in.
5
they should be sentenced to watch non-stop her Hallmark TV shows.
38
As the father of two highschool boys who are in the midst of this journey, I find this scandal fascinating. Watching it unfold slowly day by day is like watching OJ’s white Bronco drive down the highway. (I have always been aware of the advantage wealth brings to this process but the only cheating that I knew was widespread occurred with those who were self employed and could manipulate their income to game the FAFSA. ) I’m sure the trial will be a grand spectacle. Oddly enough, neither my boys nor I are upset. They feel relieved of the duty to punch all the right tickets in order to get into all of the best schools. Instead, my boys are going to be themselves and find a school that fits.
26
I feel the same as do. It just brings to light that which many have known, but not much could be done.
The only thing “regular” people can do it just keep grinding away and do the right thing.
There are so many great colleges/universities in the USA, that can give one a valuable education.
14
There is a lot of schadenfreude in these comments, and I do not think it is to our benefit.
Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman are small fish in the grand scheme of things. The hate they receive seems quite disproportional.
Consider the actual problems : increasing inequality and fear of finding a job (or else ending up a barista in a Starbucks), means thousands of kids spending their high school years doing nothing but checking the boxes they think will get them to college--no sleep, no vacation--for what? a chance to run the rat-race? ; the absurd focus on a select few schools as if going anywhere else is tantamount to failure--never mind that half the faculty at most state schools got their PhDs at these "top" universities, so the quality of teaching is the same everywhere; massive student loans for these very same kids; huge tuition bills and for what? the faculty never sees this money--particularly, the increasing numbers of adjuncts working with often 3 degrees and not enough pay for basic living expenses; and the fact that the whole system is perpetuated by legacy admits. All of education has turned into a massive profit-cultivating business. Cultivating donors, lining the pockets of administrators, all while charging absurd tuition prices and not paying the actual professors.
27
@gWhat many people don't know if that going to a state school for undergrad and getting a good GRE score and high grades often gets you into an ivy league graduate school. My son went to University of Missouri Kansas City for undergrad and Columbia University for grad school. Often easier at state school as it is easier to get perfect grades and sometimes at ivy league schools it is harder to do that and then you are not in such a good position to get into grad school.
17
@g
Not a parent? Inequities are field by the preparedness of people like this woman to cheat. Otherwise there is no market. Yes its organised by others on a grander scale but you cant measure everything by money.
1
@Chris my experience, as someone who has worked in higher ed for 30 years, is that grading at state schools is much harder than the ivies.
13
$100 bucks says Loughlin's kids are going to get charged, especially if Aunt Beck and Mossimo thumb their noses at more plea offers. Feds have some unreal leverage. A guilty plea may be the only way to keep the prize daughters out of jail.
18
@Jtoro That they (may have) had knowledge is not the same as committing a crime - did they make payments to others? Remember that the charges are racketeering and money-laundering. What they did - lying on admissions docs - MAY get them expelled.
4
The lynch mob is out in force. The angry voices in most of these comments seem to represent a deeper frustration that the deck is indeed stacked in favor of those that have far too much already. If you think these crimes are something, what about the fact that almost nobody was punished for the financial meltdown. What about the fact that nobody was punished for airbags that shot projectiles into the bodies of car passengers. What about the fact that corporations make cigarettes that continue to kill more people than wars. What about the families who sell opiates. Punishing these cheaters satiate the appetite for justice, but remember, we still have Trump in the White House.
14
@Ben P
Two wrongs? I think the melt down was something that charges should have been laid over. That it was not doe not mean its a free for all . Who did you vote for? thats a start
4
This is just a modern version of a form of cheating that has endured down the decades. About 30 years ago, I was the head of a major investment bank's Chicago corporate finance office. An employee recently transferred to that office, whom I hardly knew, asked me for a letter of recommendation to Stanford's Graduate School of Business, from which I had graduated first in my class. I said I could not recommend someone with whose work I was unacquainted, and so while I was on vacation she forged my signature on a letter she wrote herself. When the school sent me the usual postcard thanking me for submitting a recommendation, the Dean of Admissions and I had a little chat, and she was, of course, rejected. Then I fired her. But she got into Harvard GSB, on what basis I have no clue. Students who are undistinguished and middle of the pack KNOW that a near perfect score on SAT's and GMAT's are fraudulent documents doctored on their behalf. They should all be expelled.
52
All of these smug 1 percenters should have the book thrown at them and do maximum jail time.
They should also be heavily fined. 67,000 students paid $85 each to apply to USC. They unfairly lost a slim chance to get accepted. USC received $5,695,000 in college application fees. Loughlins' fine should be a minimum of $6 million and each of those students should have their $85 application fee refunded.
This might actually serve as a deterrent to others.
71
How much does it take to get into the big donors admission line at USC?
8
Will they get to choose which jail they like better among a list of private jails?
That is what Cohen and others got. That is our legal system.
11
Let’s hope this type of cheating and influence peddling doesn’t occur with medical school admissions and matching into residency programs. Scary to contemplate...
25
I hope some jail time will wipe that self satisfied smirk off her face.
46
No one is going to feel sorry for Loughlin and her husband, when they get the prison time they so richly deserve. Not to mention the fines.
And anyone wearing a tie like that deserves prison. I mean, come on. The fashion police will cite him for visual manslaughter.
31
@Jim Rosenthal
Jim - I have to commend your sense of humor re the tie -brilliant!
4
One important consideration for all is the degree to which the parent(s) coerced their child(ren) into towing the fraudulent line.
Just as a supervisor has a lot of power over a subordinate, so too do parents wield power with respect to their kids. If the parents did coerce their child, perhaps charges against the parent might reflect that. If the parent(s) did not coerce their child, then perhaps the child acted of her/his own free will and might be held accountable for that. Or not.
5
@MSW
toeing the line, not towing
7
“Taxes are for the little people. “ Paraphrasing Lenona Helmsley.
25
Loughlin and her husband are apparently still in denial. It probably won't sink in until sentencing.
31
@TommyTuna
As a lawyer pleading not guilty is simply procedural, it has nothing to do with the evidence or substance of the indictment. It’s not unethical to plead not guilty. I have never seen anyone plead guilty at an initial hearing, it would make no sense.
11
I too am a lawyer. What you say is true, unless the government cuts your client one heck of a deal on the front end.
17
@Dr. Steve I guess you and Shamrock have never been to Arraignment Part 1 or 2 at 100 Centre St. Lots of guilty pleas.
2
As a parent, I must protest. This just is not right. Children depend upon the guidance of their parents. That these parents chose corrupt means to ensure a place for their children is on them. Even if some of their offspring were in on it is not relevalent. Their parents chose to seek out corrupt means. The parents wrote the checks. It is the parents who are responsible, full stop.
Using the children as leverage against the parents to persuade them to account is equally reprehensible, to me. This is how it feels, to me.
14
@Debbie
Our courts put minority underage children from disadvantage families in jail long sentences. Most of these children were 18. They knew what they were doing.
I know how often my own kids criticized me for showing up early at summer camp just to get them a top bunk, and they were young teens.
a 17-18 year old knows if their SAT score is much higher than expected or if they got into a college that their genius classmate did not.
Wrong is wrong, at least if they knew.
23
@Debbie Any 18 yo kid going to college KNOWS what her/his grades and test scores are! They know whether they were on the rowing team or participated in the other extra-curricular activities. They KNOW better. And they should be held culpable IF they knew what their parents were up to. Otherwise, we raise yet another generation of clueless, mindless entitled brats with broken moral compasses who think they can just write a check and the world will be good with it. We aren't!
40
i had never heard of her, nor of Aunt Becky nor of the husband's 'designer' line at Target. Target?? Who are these people? What is 'celebrity' now? All these people singing and dancing and baking on reality shows are not much better than dancing critters on tv shows in the 50's.
18
What's your beef with Target? Or are you so cloistered in the economic echelon even above Loughlin that you've never heard of it? Only your maid, whom you never speak to unless you think there's something wrong, goes to that store?
How much did you pay to have someone correct your kid's SAT answers?
4
@Person I shop at Target often (and do my own housework and yard work) but was unaware they had a 'designer' line. The term 'designer' is tossed around so much it has lost its original definition of being custom or unique. I don't understand how something being mass marketed can be called designer. 'Celebrity' has lost its luster as well, when the average person doesn't have a clue who these so-called celebrities are.
6
Wait.
One photo does not make a person. Surely, there are many other photos that show them in a completelydifferent manner.
And I remind folks what Richard Avedon said
"“There is no such thing as inaccuracy in a photograph. All photographs are accurate. None of them is the truth.”
I have previously commented that I am glad my mother was too poor to get me in Caltech under a similar scam.
And both of these women should do time as money is not an issue with them. So, paying fines would be wiping off one set of make up for another set.
4
@Neil
"I have previously commented that I am glad my mother was too poor to get me in Caltech under a similar scam."
This doesn't happen at Caltech, or MIT also. The courses are so demanding that an unqualified student would fail out in the first year if not the first term. There are honest schools, at least in the sciences.
3
As the parent of a gifted, high achieving, honest son who had the highest SAT Scores in our county, National Merit Commended for PSAT scores, AP Scholar with Distinction, 4.36 GPA, who not only NEVER cheated on an exam, but abhorred cheating; and who was well qualified for admission to USC but, go figure, was not accepted.
These two have taught their daughters a valuable lesson. Money + cheating + partying + influence + denying culpability will get you everywhere. Full Stop.
Lori and Mossimo know of their guilt, they not only paid to have kids SAT scores changed, they doctored photos of their daughters on rowing machines. Mossimo Gianulli went and argued with his daughters high school guidance counselor when the counselor caught on to the "rowing team" lie and created quite a stir at the all girls private school his kids attended. The lie continued when the girls submitted applications that were knowingly false, with photos of them as rowers; and I betcha we'll here more should they go to trial about the details of what the kids knew. In fact, if the girls were adults at the time of submission they may be facing charges and/or have to testify against their parents.
This is horrifying for those of us honest parents, with honest hardworking children, who would not ever consider manipulating the system in such nefarious ways to get our kids ahead.
But the really horrifying piece is the lesson they have taught their daughters. Lie, deny, Lie and all will be ok.
53
@kate hanni sounds like your kids are great, but then again, you never know
1
@kate hanni
I am a tenured professor at one of the SoCal schools caught up in this scandal, so I can tell you that your son will do well in spite of being turned down by USC. I can also tell you than in my 20+years on the faculty, I have seen donors of all kinds become priority #1, and I honestly don't think that undergraduate students are much more than window dressing. Send your son to a Jesuit College or someplace like Pomona College, where they care about undergraduates.
18
@kate hanni: You've missed one issue which seems obvious to me. The "affluenza" argument, which got one young man out of doing time for crime: he was raised too rich to know better.
I do hope you're wrong about the daughters learning they can get away with anything. I hope they're convicted of misrepresentation as well.
1
Loughlin should start communicating with Martha Stewart for tips on surviving in the Big House.
12
Not guilt, hmmmm. They must have a lot of money.
4
Lori Loughlin's not guilty plea in the face of evidence of recorded conversations of intent to defraud the admissions process at USC and the faked photos of her daughters rowing crew, as well as the $500, 000 contribution (i.e., payoff) to Rick Singer's "charity" is at the very least proof of no remorse for her behaviour. Perhaps, Ms Loughlin should run for President of the United States since a lack of shame appears to be an important qualification of the current occupant.
27
@James, Toronto, CANADA
Aside from the despicable fraud, and wire fraud, apparently some of the cheating parents had the temerity to deduct the bribes from their income taxes.
1
Just begging to be made an example of. Well, I hope that happens. I'm tired of the 1%er smirk.
29
@Mary Ann
.01%er smirk.
9
What an insufferable smirk on her face in this article's photo. I don't care if it's her "coping mechanism", as another commenter put it. Have the decency to feel and show some shame!
The best outcome will be jail time for these fraudsters, and a thorough reform of the college admissions process so that fraud is much more difficult, and much more likely to be exposed.
24
"'At times, the students were in on it,' a federal prosecutor, Eric S. Rosen, said in court last week during one in a long schedule of hearings in the sprawling case."
This sentence may be all the new information in the article.
9
@polymath
It's not new info. That has been known for weeks
1
Setting another great example for her daughters.
9
Well now. This will be fun to watch. A very arrogant rich couple. With their super attorneys they have surely analyzed every inch of their legal path ahead to resist the extensive federal charges. They also know they can plea anytime. As attorney Steve Meister said on CBS “They could do serous time”.
12
It seems to me that this is a crime without a victum. Some have argued that her daughters took the place of other more worthy students, and although this is probably the case, most large universities such as USC, have relatively "elastic" admission numbers. So, should Ms. Loughlin and her husband spend a minimum of two years in jail for this more or less victimless crime? I really don't think so.
3
@Mathman314. It may be difficult to define a specific victim in this crime, but their actions were an affront to the honesty that most Americans live by, so we are all the victims.
I wouldn't care near as much if these rich idiots had bought their children's college admissions more subtly, or at least kept their bribery secret, but now that it has been exposed we cannot let it go unpunished.
11
@Mathman314 It would not be difficult for USC to identify the victims. Athletes are recruited and ranked by the athletic program and receive a preliminary review by the admissions office. Early on they identify their top choice school, a school where they have been told by the coach there will be a place for them on the team. There was a set number of slots for the women's crew team at USC. Several were not admitted and had likely already indicated to other schools that USC was their choice. Real people who had worked very hard in classroom and on the river at dawn had actual damage to their academic and athletic careers.
16
@M.R. Sullivan How do you know there were a set number of slots for the crew team? My understanding is that the crew coach was in on the scheme and that he just added a few more slots to complete his team.
2
“Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. They are different."
I bet neither of the parents or their entitled children have a clue who wrote this. Nor would they care, when told. I mean, why would they?
41
@cee-dog Thank you for inspiring me to look it up! Great quote, great writer :).
3
I once bought a tee shirt from Target that had Mossimo on the neck tag. Flimsiest piece of clothing I’ve bought in my life. Throw the book at them.
13
@John Doe What? What does one thing have to do with another?
Look who’s loughlin now?! I hear Kim Kardashian is about to become a lawyer. Maybe the two should join forces?!
13
Lori Loughlin has either the best or worst public relations team out there: I read that she blames Morrie Tobin, the college scam whistleblower, for her troubles: He sang like a canary in exchange for a lighter sentence in a financial fraud case. I also read that Loughlin doesn't think she did anything illegal -- entitled, maybe, but what any parent who had the means would've done, too. Seems that Mother Loughlin herself needs a college education, as a criminal justice major. Unbelievable!
33
@Catlin "Aunt Becky's" words are shocking to most Americans but the sad truth is that many in the upper echelons of wealth and power consider these types of "power moves" as a right, as badges of honor that contribute to their sense of "power." It's sick to most people, but the 1% have different rules than " the little people." Hopefully she'll have a better understanding of equality and fairness when she's sitting in a federal prison cell.
15
@Sinclair Ferguson Lori Loughlin came from a very modest background herself, and she knew very well that she was scamming the system, hence the secretiveness. I have a feeling that Ms. Loughlin always has had a sense of entitlement, from childhood on, but when wealth arrived she was able to act upon her entitlement with ease. There are plenty of wealthy people -- parents -- who behave with ethics and modesty.
8
For all the comments about Loughlin's "smug smile", let's not forget that she's an actress. Right now she's putting on the performance of her life, because that is exactly what's at stake for her right now. No, she's not going to look distressed and distraught for the public to see. She may feel that way inside, but in fact her "smug smile" may be her coping mechanism. That and the fact that undoubtably her lawyers have told her that she has a good chance of beating the charges.
6
@Zobar However, Loughlin (a B list actress) should get some acting lessons from Felicity Huffman whose 'performance' was better received, and more authentic.
27
@Zobar
That's just the Xanax and Chardonnay for breakfast we're looking at
12
@Zobar
That's just the Xanax and Chardonnay for breakfast we're looking at
3
Our daughter initially wasn't accepted into the very selective school she wanted to attend, but she was advised to apply to her good, but somewhat-less-prestigious second choice and then try again after she had a year under her belt with good grades.
A year later, she was accepted and graduated with honors.
13
Perhaps some jail time would slap that smirk from her face. She and her entitled daughters are real pieces of work.
41
It's pretty simple. It's been reported that Lori was shocked when the words "jail time" were mentioned. She will do anything to avoid a stay at the Graybar Hotel. And the only way she can avoid it now is to grind it out in court and beat the rap.
What Loughlin fails to realize is, convicted or not, her career is permanently damaged by this lack of contrition. Felicity Huffman, having shown remorse and shame, will emerge from a short stay in a minimum-security facility (Lompoc?) with a second-chance reputation intact. Loughlin will be a pariah no matter what comes next.
40
It would be interesting to know if she was offered a plea bargain and if so on what terms. In other words, has she decided taking the risk of a trial is better than accepting what she was offered.
Felicity Huffman paid 3% ($15K) of what Loughlin did, only did it once, and didn't fake sports pics etc so was likely offered a much better deal.
it does seem as if the evidence against her is pretty strong so she has to be running a pretty big risk of prison time given the charges. We'll see.
5
She shows absolutely no remorse.
38
@Philip W
I hope all of this is in jest. All of this talk of criminal justice reform and now people think a Defendant should be judged by their smile.
5
Is cheating on the SAT a jail worthy crime? If not, I'm thinking pleading not guilty is the right move. Certainly, to me at least, paying a coach to get your kid into a university, while terrible, isn't much of a crime if at all. If you can stand the shame of a trial, you won't face much punishment even if you're found guilty.
4
she isnt charged with cheating on the SAT. she's charged with wire fraud. please pay attention
65
@John Ho Well in the eyes of the law bribery and wire fraud is very much a crime.
15
Where have you been? You’re uninformed and not with a clear view of the facts or charges. Huge crimes They have extensive federal charges including racketeering. They will go to jail.
16
I read one of the “personal statements” written for an applicant by this company. While I have no idea whether the statement I read reflects other manufactured essays, I can say that one face to face meeting would have clearly revealed that the applicant had not written the statement.
17
@37Rubydog The applicant can be coached for the interview.
2
It’s too bad that things can’t be like they were in the 70’s or earlier. I was a good student and got good grades. I was involved in some clubs, but not a lot. I did not volunteer. There were no AP courses. If there were study guides for the SAT, I didn’t know about them. I just took the test and did well. Mainly, I had a childhood. Best of all, I went to an excellent school (University of Washington) debt free. Let’s restore the sanity.
133
@Kb
Too late for sanity. It's gone, gone, gone.
13
@Kb
I know, it was a different time. I went into the SAT with zero preparation. I mostly avoided many of the AP courses. And ended up at Brown as a brass player jock.
4
After two years of Donald Trump's tenure as President, why would anyone with enough chutzpah and a large bank account plead guilty?
22
@Victor a conscience?
8
@Victor Because of shame. Because they understand that they did something wrong.
4
Is the notion of shame dead in our political and social lives?
36
@Marianna -- Yes.
9
Of course, Lori Loughlin is pleading not guilty. What else would a Narcissist plead? This is everybody’s else’s fault, from the University’s who made it too hard for her daughter to get in, to the SAT’s that required too much education, to the kindergarten teacher who failed to properly prepare her daughter for the effort it would take to get into college.
What’s new in America?
63
She’s just buying time.
Of course she’s guilty.
I don’t think “Aunt Becky” can sugar coat this episode.
16
Aunt Becky will be going on a federal vacation. No Hallmark story here.
6
This woman appears determined to send herself to prison, despite the system being tilted in her favor. All the popcorn in the world is not enough.
26
If it goes to trial, more photo ops and autographs, right Lori? Will Kim Kardashian get her law degree in time?
29
She do do some time and be fined triple what she paid for the bribes
6
A truly devoted mom would take the plea and give a statement that absolves the daughters of as much guilt as possible -- tell everyone that the only reason her daughters went along with this scheme is to please her and her husband. They were 17 yo's, all they wanted to do was to make their parents proud. Instead of protecting myself, I would do everything I can to save the future of my daughters.
17
@Miss ABC their very highly paid crisis management consultants already wrote up those lies for her and sent them to the press from 'a source close to the family' The daughter is so darned mad she's hardly talking to them and has been forced to stamp her little high heeled foot indignantly and shack up with a boyfriend in Malibu! ahaaha! guffaw worthy, hamhanded stuff!
8
Do they think, after getting their child into USC with a mere half mil, that all it will take is throwing more money at lawyers to get them off the hook here? Photoshopped images of her daughter "rowing", the person in charge of the scam flipped and cooperating with prosecutors, phone conversations, documents, emails and cashed checks.
Does she and her husband expect the jury to be stacked with fellow millionaires? Who knew that hubris incarnate walks on two legs?
203
@Norman Dupuis The thought of going to jail with regular people must causing them many sleepless nights. As did the thought of their children going to a lowly public college also did.
19
Great opportunity to lay a felony and a big fine on these entitled elites. A couple of years might do the trick.
18
Whoever has the better lawyers wins. It's the American way.
8
@Phil M As much justice as you can afford.
12
I am repulsed by the expression on her face. To me it says: "Yes, I did it. So what? Do you not know who I am? I am going to get away with it. And I am smarter (and far wealthier) than everyone else." To look like she looks (that smug, entitled expression, brightened with brittle happiness) may also mean that she is not playing with a full deck. She looks a little too bright-eyed and bushy-tailed for what she is facing. Odd, indeed. Or maybe she does know something we don't know...? If trump and the republicans walk around, engaged in constant, major corruption, cruelty, arrogance, greed, lying, outright thievery, etc., and they all wear the same expression on their faces as Lori Loughlin is wearing in this photo, hey, why not? They all seem to be getting away with it, too. Rich, well-connected elitists often do.
66
@Elin Minkoff
To be fair, when was this picture taken and would you want to be judged by one photograph? I know she is an actress (not a good one) and might have been dying inside. Who knows? She might be an entitled, lying, arrogant elitist (gee, I hate that word) but she might not be. Could we all try to be less judgy? It sound like they messed up royally but isn't that what Americans do. Grow up.
4
@lh: She is ALL those things, lh, or she would not have done what she did. (Entitled, arrogant, lying, and elitist.) She may indeed be dying inside; I certainly would be, but I prefer the penitent behavior of Felicity Huffman, who admitted that she did wrong, and did not plaster an arrogant smile on her face, but attempted, properly, to look, and to be, contrite and chastened. Wouldn't you be sorry if you did something like this? Only American mess up royally????? Canadians never mess up royally????? Who jumped into my mind right now is Rob Ford, and more recently, Justin Trudeau, who I happen to like very much. Grow up, indeed. I am sure that every single day, both Americans AND Canadians, as well as all manner of other nationalities "mess up royally." It is how you handle the aftermath of your mess that may indicate a small scrap of penitence or character...or not.
4
The actions of these parents demonstrate to their own children their parent's view of the children's lack of accomplishment and intellect.
29
Yes, and these kids knew about the fraud and the bribes, and of course the entire families were complicit. We normal people just apply to college and take the SAT’s and never even thought about trying to cheat or bribe our way through life.
2
Really? She may not be able to act her way out of this one.
Though (more) major dollars for lawyers, delays, motions, more delays may prevail.
Time will tell.
2
I’ve read for years that an Affirmative Action student doesn’t take the spot of a person with a better academic record, but what do you know, now I read that a white student does take a spot of a person with a better academic record. Now how does that happen?
13
"... an Affirmative Action student doesn’t take the spot of a person with a better academic record ..."
Where did you read that? I would very much like to know.
1
@polymath
Benjamin Baum thehill.com 2017
He said all students admitted are affirmative action students. Too many other articles to mention in this limited space.
No remorse, just look at the undeniable smile in her face. Reminds me of Marie Antoinette saying “let them eat cake”. And Hallmark has the audacity to renew the show When calls the Heart. Time for me to boycott products that are advertised on that show.
18
@Gregory, you might want to check into Hallmark before boycotting them. I believe they cut all ties with Laughlin, removing her as producer and plan to write her character out of the show. Although I don't watch it, it's quite popular and would be unfair for the other actors and behind the scenes personnel to lose their jobs because of one person's actions.
15
@Gregory
Well, Marie Antoinette didn't say "let them eat cake". I believe she said something like don't they have bread? Marie Antoinette was probably the least guilty person who paid a high price for being born to her family and marrying into the French Court. Not her fault. And isn't cheating the American Way?
4
This awful episode should be a catalyst for a fairer, more transparent college admissions policy. A couple of suggestions:
1. End all legacy considerations. Eliminate questions on admissions applications asking about family connections. If your dad went to Harvard you've probably had plenty of advantages already. No need to add more.
2. Set a minimum standard of grades and test scores. Then have a lottery for all students who meet those standards. Could televise it and sell ads to raise money for scholarships.
3. Outlaw university stickers on the back of SUVs. Be happy with your kids' university privately. No need to rub it in the face of the driver behind you.
160
@G in Cali
I would add... wearing your intended college sweatshirts to school after acceptances go out...to the outlaw list.
12
@G in Cali Your preaching to the choir with me. Sitting behind one of those stickers in traffic is torture. I really want to walk up to the car and say So What
9
@G in Cali I had a sticker for The College of Wooster on my car (not an SUV) for several years (until the car could no longer be repaired). Why? Because my children received a wonderful education there, and I am grateful. Wooster is not well known here, so having the sticker wasn't bragging. I was more than willing to give the college some publicity.
15
There's a lot of clutching at pearls over the not guilty plea.
Remember that anyone can enter whatever plea they want. Also, this case is inconsequential compared to issues that are affecting the US right now- climate change, income inequality, racism.
You can choose to be all 1690s Salem if you wish but please, for the sake of the future, keep it to 5 minutes a day.
24
@E - Not really inconsequential. Left unchecked, corruption in our education system will reverberate in many other areas of our life. Quick example: Poorly educated, but plenty self-assured Trump and Jared Kushner now being at the very top of our government after their fathers paid for their admissions and everyone involved knew that was the only way for them to ever get in in an Ivy League school.
58
@Marianna Trump started out at Fordham for two years and then transferred to Penn because his brother was friends with someone in admissions. What I don't understand is why, though, anyone thinks getting into an Ivy League is so hard anyway. Tons of people are accepted with average grades and average SAT scores but the statistics are manipulated to look otherwise. Legacy, sports, special talents, demographics all factor into Ivy class makeup. Those who think an Ivy League degree reflects past or future success are plainly ignorant. Years back both the Ivies and Seven Sister Colleges advertised in magazine classifieds for students and accepted anyone who could pay the full tuition.
8
@Catlin
Didn't get into an Ivy, did you? The bitterness is still apparent in your comment, even years later. And BTW, your last statement ("Years back both the Ivies and Seven Sister Colleges advertised in magazine classifieds for students and accepted anyone who could pay the full tuition.") is simply false.
13
Wait a minute ... to those rushing to judgment, as may be tempted by this report. Loughlin and her husband have the absolute right to plead innocent of the charges against them. The fact that they’re apparently wealthy is not a legitimate reason to be against them ... or anyone. Not in this nation by anyone, including its president. Our system of justice is not honored that way; in fact, that would be an immature attempt for the opposite.
18
@wak
The issue isn't guilt or innocence. It is common sense. What are the chances that Lori Loughlin is less culpable than Felicity Huffman, who has pleaded guilty? I have to assume that Loughlin thinks she has a great lawyer who can get her a better outcome than what Ms. Huffman will get. As an attorney myself, I am very, very, very doubtful that this is the case.
23
@wak
I am not rushing to judgement. I'm just tired of these people, their arrogance, this story and that woman's smuggy smirk.
16
@wak Even in an article completely unrelated to the president, you have to find a way to portray him as a victim. Laughable.
3
Of course the majority of the comments here reflect the overriding problem in our society and our culture. The problem is that universities, like the vast majority of corporations, wealthy individuals and the parasites who do their bidding... have placed $$ above everything else. Be it ethics, integrity, character, merit, performance, etc. People, the only thing worse than witnessing capitalism at its worse.... is seeing the number of people who seek to rationalize it or lay it off to something other than that. See them for what they are. The same corrupt souls who aspire to gain as much wealth as possible so they can do the same exact thing. Unfortunately, the reality is she is wealthy which means she has the US justice system on her side....or did you forget that no one on Wall St. went to jail in 2008 for selling fraudulent mortgaged back securities to avoid mortgage banking regulations and fraudulent credit default swaps to avoid insurance regulations. And not only did the folks at Goldman Sachs not go to jail, but their shortfalls were paid to AIG so they could still pay their top execs. bonuses. Helps when the Secretary of the Treasury and individual overseeing the bailout are from GS.
8
@Jrook
Preach!
1
Is she crazy? No way she will beat this, and they will get extra time in the slammer for not pleading guilty.
9
My comment may not be relevant to this aspects of the story, but I thought it important to raise.
I have read about several cases in which minority students were investigated for significant increases in their SAT scores. Did any of the students in this scandal have significant improvements in their scores and were these increases flagged by ETS?
10
@Robert K
William H Macy and Felicity Huffman's daughter had her score increase by 400 points! Had she actually taken the test herself, she might have done well, but sadly for her no one will ever know. ETS doesn't care if your score goes up 1000 points, as long as you pay to take the test. They have a lock on the process and Universities just feed the system by using these tests as legitimate reasons for accepting students, against strong evidence that the tests do not consistently measure how well a student will do in college. They are only a measurement of how well some kids take tests. Period.
3
I just finished listening to This American Life podcast called "Call Me Fat". Elna Baker, who lost 110 lbs, describes how she never knew that attractive thin white women had their own world, where they could do things she never could do when she was fat, and get away with it.
Lori Loughlin has lived her whole life in that world. And then add in the wealth privilege too? Forget about it....of course she thinks she will not have to face the music, this is the world we live in, where rich pretty white people get what they want and are completely sure they deserve it. And they complain about "entitlement" programs.
55
Probably that Kardashian that’s going to become a lawyer w/o going to law school has her first client. Win win for everyone in the world of The Art of The Deal.
4
The wealthy want what they want, and they want it now. That’s that.
9
OK – I’ve read enough of these responses, and I have come to a conclusion: The responders to this article that approve of her stance must be Trump supporters.
Anyone – ANYONE- who could support this woman and her husband and their behaviors are as out of touch with reality as those who think the person in the White House should serve another term, much less the one he has now.
28
@Patrick Sewall
The classic straw man argument. No one is supporting her.
6
Most of this problem would not occur without preferential admissions for athletes at elite schools like Stanford. The Big Lie is that Stanford athletes could be admitted on their own academic record without preferential treatment. How else could Stanford dominate college athletics? Just last year 5 NCAA national championships. At least one national team championship for over 40 years. That can’t be done with just a handful of preferential admissions. For a non athlete without affirmative action a perfect academic record just gives you a chance for admission at Stanford. There are so many spots for athletes throughout the Ivy League it has been an obvious avenue for abuse for years.
13
Whatever happens it's likely she'll make money out of it. It's something that certain people with little talent for anything seem able to do. That in itself seems as unfair as what she's accused of here.
4
A mere bump in the road. Further fame and fortune no doubt await her and her appearance-obsessed clan, so there is no time to appear in court.
Unless of course said appearance would present the opportunity for another "fierce and fabulous" Instagram!
There is no shame with fame.
8
The story of Julia Louis-Dreyfus’ son Charlie Hall as a basketball walkon at Northwestern doesn’t seem so warm and fuzzy anymore especially knowing that all walkons on the Duke men’s basketball team come from extremely wealthy families. Charlie played in one game as a senior on a team that finished near the bottom of the Big Ten. Quite a player.
7
Never really heard of Ms Loughlin before this college admission situation broke. As a result I took a look at some clips from her TV and film career.
I quickly concluded that her upbeat and cheerful demeanor at her recent public appearances might very well be the first time in her life she's ever displayed any acting ability.
104
It's not a matter of guilt. It's a matter of her hubby can buy their freedom. The arrogance of the rich in court. Pathetic. Dangerous. Oligarchy.
39
I don't think her it's just being rich and white - I think it's being dumb. Consider her acting portfolio compared to Huffman. This is not a brilliant woman. What is the most upsetting is that she must never NEVER have worked on raising daughters who were students at all, just drifted through life being cute - and cute won't last forever.
75
@MAEC
having a lot of money doesn't make you smart. she's exhibit #1 in that regard. her smugness is repulsive. it seems she has no remorse for what she's done, and it's people like this that give me schadenfreude when the ax finally comes down on them, because they deserve it. i hope she'll learn her lesson, but i'm not sure she's smart enough to know there's a lesson to be learned.
20
The husband is a Trump supporter. Maybe he thinks Trump will pardon them if they are convicted.
67
@Steven McCain I can totally see Trump doing that.
9
@flenzy
Care to bet? I’ll put money on no pardon.
1
I wonder what Vegas oddsmakers would say.
This could be part of a brilliant strategy by Lori Loughlin. She and her lawyers have noticed that a substantial share of the US population worships grifters like Donald Trump and the Kardashians.
Loughlin and her husband might spend a few months in the clink, but more likely they will walk. And the payoff could be an enormous contract with the E! channel for a reality series cataloging the "drama" within this telegenic family. Although I have no interest, I am sure a good portion of TV viewers would love to see how the tension between these evil parents and their two beautiful daughters will play out.
19
@ Nell-
I will go full-blown Elvis with a colt 45 on any TV in my house if this family makes it onto E?, Bravo or any celebrity-worshiping network.
But really, those networks and their celebrity worshiping bosses Andy Cohen/Ryan Seacrest exist only because there are more than enough people whose lives are so pathetic that they actually enjoy watching the drivel that comes out of those networks (RHOWherever/KUWTK, etc.). The popularity of those shows is more a sad, pathetic statement about Americans in general than what is actually put on those networks at all.
Christ, doesn’t anybody read a book anymore?
12
She will do 2 years. It will not be community service.
The lesson here is, if you've got lots of money, you can buy anything, but morals and ethics.
30
And if you don't have money, you can take out loans to colleges teaching you not to have morals and ethics.
1
so being rich can get you off on "oh I'm sorry". not going to work this way. on the low end of the sentencing guidelines. she get's 2 years
5
Am I missing something, $500k to attend USC? If it's $70k to attend, why not pay the kid $300k & pocket the rest? Maybe that degree opens doors in Hollywood? Neil Armstrong is certainly a standout alumni, but O.J. (sorry Trojans no offense intended)? These "rich & famous" people have more money than brains. They should put aside some of the money for their own education. Certainly they need to learn what it means to tell the truth.
19
@tom wilson The most amusing thing (aside from paying a half a million for USC) is that both their daughters would have done fine in life because they are RICH girls who don't need to get an education or a real job.
20
if only she can take bob sagat, stamos and those twins with her to san quentin
9
their daughters should be kicked out plain and simple Immediately
I worked 2 jobs for 6 years to get mine thru school
I have absolutely zero tolerance for anybody who was involved
120
How would society benefit if Loughlin were imprisoned? Not much, I think. She was not trying to get a cut of the action through money laundering like our President does. She was just following the instructions of the bad guy who wanted to hide the money from his income. Yeah, she acted stupidly, selfishly, hurtfully, and inexcusably but not violently and not repeatedly. I say fine her and give her community service for long time. Not prison.
4
@Ayecaramba Money laundering and fraud are CRIMES. You can't have a criminal justice system for rich celebrities who get off with community service, and another for the rest of us who get prison time. Loughlin and her husband may have been too ignorant to understand what they were doing (though, unlikely), but they committed crimes and need to pay the price.
19
@Ayecaramba
This is why so called white collar crime is so rampant in our society.Because when they are caught usually the most that happens to them is that they pay a fine, and because they are rich the risk-reward dynamic tells them to go ahead and try it. The crime they committed was fraud, they gamed the system so their undeserving children took a spot away from someone who was deserving. What makes it even more criminal is that they had the resources to hire tutors and make sure that their kids actually earned the right to that spot at USC but they took the lazy way out and cut a check instead. A year or two in jail and a big fine will not eliminate this type of crime but it would get people to think about it before trying it themselves.
23
@Ayecaramba They need to be made an example of. Cheating should not be tolerated.
11
Come on, stop playing games and do the right thing.
5
If she is convicted they should throw the book at her. If she is convicted her highly paid lawyers will portray her a mother just trying to have the best for her kids. She should have the book thrown at her because she had no regards for other mothers who broke their tails and played by the rules. She should get a sentence equal to her crime. Going to these schools for some kids is a life changing experience. What should her sentence be for stealing a deserving child's life?
26
I hope she wins. Why/How?
For generations our system of "higher education" has been a scam, calling itself "meritocracy," which in reality is litte more than a shakedown of those seeking middle class/upper middle class career, extorting from students/parents $25-50,000 a year to meaninglessly polish transcripts (often done by outright cheating, & when not, gaming the process in techincally legal ways but having little to do w/ learning) & other "meritocracy" dances like rat-race childhood-destroying extracurriculars that kids must pile up, because educability defined by piling up "time served" in volunteer work, clothing drives, Model UN. As for lying about crew: If Ben Hur, told "Row Well And Live" (or Jean Valjean) could have had received credit for serving the galley sentence though wiggling out of it, good for them. The noble patrician in the film after all has the humanity to unchain him from his oar, unlike our rat race meritocrats/meritocracy's pious guardians.
Stanford education prof David Labaree titles his book "How to Succeed in School Without Really Learning": approriately for our educated elite gettting the message across w/out having to open a single page. Education in this country has been eviserated by so-called "meritocracy" for generations-- now it's a mere exercise in Goffmanesque gamesmanship, social darwinism, perpetuation of privilege.
When the legit SAT path is Princeton Review (learning fake math for maximum score), cheating's the ethical norm.
8
@Andrew This isn’t going to win any popularity contest, but I agree, without exception. It’s pervasive.
I’ve met and worked with far too many ivy league grads were “just ok” much less meritorious. But in certain circles you just weren’t considered unless you had those credentials. Just not the “right stuff” as they used to say.
4
@Andrew So-- you want them to get off so that others can do the same? Not sure your logic makes sense to me, though I agree that the entire process is a scam and that the College Board and The Princeton Review are making tons of money off of fearful parents and students who think they must MUST get into those top schools in order to have a good life.
4
@Andrew
Sorry you feel that way. My children studied hard for years to achieve top colleges, and they learned a lot when they got in. Then, they applied their acquired learning skills to get good jobs.
11
She’s betting on celebrity justice. Smart move, actually, since celebrities tend to get away with murder in this our celebrity worshipping society. Plus, they are a good-looking couple and have all the money in the world to spend on lawyers, PR folks, expert witnesses, focus groups - the best defense money buy. Maybe a full-blown trial will be good as it may further expose all the shenanigans that occur in the college applications/admissions process. I have two children who did well in HS and went to good colleges and we found the entire process to be traumatic. They went to school with perfectly normal kids who were getting extra time and special dispensation for some imaginary disability cooked up by paid education specialists. If they didn’t feel like taking a test, they were allowed to take them another time or day. Often they could find out what was already in the tests. And they got into elite schools because no one paid any attention to the abuses of the process. The Americans with Disabilities Act has become such a joke. It’s just another side of affirmative action and legacy admissions. It all comes down to conscience and clearly these folks have very little.
11
Perhaps she's weighed appearance vs. jail time, and latter prevailed. Or, a tiny, buried enlightened part of her knows a few years in jail would free of her illusions, and that husband.
1
The elite admissions application process has become much more subjective and fuzzy. It is not fair, equitable, or transparent. It has become less recruitment of the “best of the best of the best”, and more recruitment of “show me the money. “
10
For those that think we shouldn’t prosecute these crimes as there are worse crimes occurring, I’d point to Eric Garner. He was being arrested and ended up murdered for selling individual cigarettes.
So if the police had enough time for Eric Garner, they have enough time for these rich celebrities.
27
@M.
You’re aware that local police were involved in the Garner case and that this was a federal investigation, right? Two different organizations.
1
Ms. Laughlin and the other parents are not victims, and deserve as much punishment as the law calls for, up to and including jail time.
And I know their kids were so dumb that they could not get into a so called "good" college (e.g., USC? say what?) without their parents committing bribery or other crimes to gain admission for the little darlings. However, it seems highly likely that most of these kids were aware of what was going on.
A proctor sat next to the kid and provided or changed test answers? The kid had to know.
Another person took the test instead of the kid? The kid had to know.
The kid took a photo on a rowing machine pretending to be a rower? The kid had to know.
The kid was given extra time to take the test due to disability? The kid had to know that he/she did not have a disability.
Were there possibly a few instances where a kid somehow did not know his parents had cheated to gain him/her admission? Maybe, but doesn't seem very likely.
Many, perhaps most, of the kids were not "caught up" in the crimes but were witting participants. To preserve any sense of decency and ethics the colleges need to investigate not just what crimes the parents and their enablers committed, but what the kids knew and did.
In any case these criminal parents' kids, witting or not, need to be expelled. After all, if a parent steals a car and gives it to his kid, does the kid get to keep the car? I don't think so.
51
@Mon Ray "USC? Say what?" You can say that again, Mon Ray.
4
Frankly I fail to see any transgressions here based upon contemporary mores of society.
I don’t like it. I find it repugnant. But with only great reluctance and holding my nose do I accept it as reflective of our great, and in this case, not so great, society.
3
@Cozy Pajamas You do understand that money laundering and fraud are crimes, though? Those are not just "transgressions."
13
Also, think about the deserving, hard-working kids that didn't get in because the spots were taken by these cheats.
5
Ms. Loughlin must think her full house is better than the cards held by the prosecutors.
11
Her defense of saying any mother would do what she did ...... is unsympathetic to me. She thinks every one did. Bribing to get into college may be a way for some mothers and fathers "who were not there" for their children is e a way in their mind of showing love and support for them. Wrong! My mother stood for decency, honesty and hard work. I learned a lot from her. Even if she had the means my mother was wise enough to know one has to earn one's place in society, not have it paved for you.
23
The kids part of it. Charge her. On the record.
1
I am actually supportive of her doing that.
Not that I excuse her paying money to get her offspring into a college of her choice. But that is exactly why I am supporting her case:
In my view, it is the ultimate hypocrisy to condone that rich donors to universities can pay to get their children admitted and that is considered perfectly legal and OK, while LL just found a way around this, through what she may even have rationalized being an equally proper way of paying a coach to give a slot on his team to her daughter.
This will finally shed light on that common place practice of rich people being able to buy college admission slots.
The differences lie only in the method, not in the principle.
I am glad she is fighting and I think in the end the colleges may actually withdraw their complaints against her, for the simple reason that they do not want to get their own donors see dragged through court.
Because, if I were her attorney, that's exactly what I would do. Demand payments by rich donors being laid open, combined with the SAT scores of their admitted offspring. That would bring the entire hypocrisy to light.
My bet is that the universities involved will drop their case, to prevent the embarrassment of their donors.
There is lots of money involved here. The sums that were paid to the corrupt coach are just a drop in the bucket and at any rate, the universities will have no trouble recouping that in a separate lawsuit.
5
This is a Federal criminal case not a civil case. The universities have no say in whether or not the case can be brought or not.
19
@Mark Singleton Well actually, they kinda do. University counsel can handily communicate that their client will be adverse, hence uncooperative. Makes it a tough case.
Relatedly, some view the universities as viewing themselves as harmed because they didn’t receive their just spoils of financial remuneration in the matter.
2
@Kara Ben Nemsi The universities are not bringing a case against Ms. Loughlin! These are criminal charges, brought by the feds. The colleges have no say.
6
Many commenters don't see any difference between "legacy" students whose families have funded universities for generations, and the bribing, lying conspirators who are currently on trial. Making a large donation to a school - funding a building, a library or a research center - will ensure admission for the "legacy" student, but it also benefits thousands of students for generations to come. It is legal and it is publicly done. Paying a test taker to cheat on standardized tests, or bribing athletic directors to falsely claim a student is an athletic recruit, is illegal and benefits no one other than the paid-for student whose parents bought their way in.
23
@Joanne M
You can rationalize legacy admissions but you can’t justify them.
You’re selecting someone not based on their talents but on their parents’ or grandparents’ “generosity.”
Besides, if someone comes from an unusually wealthy family they have probably attended stellar schools and had the sssistance of helpful tutors. If the kid can’t attain the necessary grades/scores after all that support it doesn’t make sense to heap even more advantages on them.
Got to play fair.
3
Martha Stewart went to the slammer years ago for an impulsive insider trade. The charges against Lori Loughlin point to an extended period of prior intent to defraud and conpsiracy to carry it out at the expense of depriving other candidates for admission. If Laughlin is convicted, no doubt the comparative gravity of her lawbreaking - along with her refusal to take responsibility - will weigh heavily in sentencing. Barring a miracle or a hole card, she appears to be playing a pretty short hand. The infomercial fraudster Kevin Trudeau played the same game and got 10 years for it.
16
@SkepticaL
Martha Stewart went to prison for obstruction of justice, not insider trading.
4
What I don't understand is why she thought her kids even needed a college education. She should have just given them the money and let them hire private tutors (if was really an education they were after) or let them use it as seed money to create a business, a charity, whatever. These days, a university education is to help you move up in the world. These kids were born on third base.
32
@Anonymous 2 Why? Because not making it into a prestigious college would have diminished Loughlin's social standing within her social circle. Good university isn't about Lori's kids. It's all about her.
13
I'm beyond ecstatic that prosecutors are taking these people to the woodshed.
If this had been just one instance of cheating, you'd have seen this case pled down and buried after 18 months of lawyers' wrangling.
Instead, the typical "defer/delay/deny" playbook for wealthy defendants has gone out the window. There's no hiding in anonymity or the labrynthine processes of our courts. Prosecutors are releasing names, releasing details, and hammering those who think that they can simply "buy" their way out of this prosecution.
12
Because colleges admit only a small percentage of those who apply, getting into college is a highly-competitive, zero-sum game. For every applicant who is accepted, many are rejected. Each year colleges establish a limit on how many freshmen will be admitted.
If jocks are given admission preference, there are fewer openings for non-jocks.
If legacies are also given preference, there are fewer openings for non-jocks and non-legacies.
If some students also get admitted via bribery or cheating, there are fewer openings for non-jocks, non-legacies and non-cheaters.
If some students of color are admitted over white students with higher test scores and GPAs, there are fewer openings for non-jocks, non-legacies, non-cheaters and high-testing/high-GPA whites.
This is simple math; all of the preferences noted above inevitably reduce the numbers of non-preferred students admitted, including high-testing/high GPA white students.
As Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts put it, "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." [Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1, 551 U.S. 701 (2007)]
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court and Congress have not yet found ways to achieve racial balance in our schools and colleges without discriminating against some more qualified white students.
5
Martha Stewart showed how to save your career in such a situation; Felicity Huffman is wisely following that lead.
Now we get to see how it plays out if you don't just take your lumps, with another actress deciding to walk away from her career in exchange for a public trial.
11
She has a case. The payment did not ensure admission. She paid to have her girls better positioned. There are about a million ways people pay to do that in college admissions and all academic outcomes. Prosecution may have overplayed.
3
@Penny
Yes. I predict that this will end up being a "people vs the elite" trial, with her on the side of the people. She'll make the university look like the problem.
3
@Penny
Doesn't matter whether the payment "ensured admission." The crime they are charged with is wire fraud.
6
@Penny It is completely irrelevant whether she was "ensured admission" for her kids. Money laundering is money laundering.
5
With all that's gone on in this country, where does the FBI find the time and manpower to chase down a couple of people buying their way to the head of the line? That happens in every business every day - just a different currency and purpose.
I'd much rather have our law enforcement people chasing down real criminals and terrorists. I'd much rather be assured that my vote in the next election counts and is not impacted by a foreign country spreading disinformation.
We see this behavior in law enforcement daily, going after trivial, potentially criminal actions just to get another merit badge.
Think how much better off we would be if the rogue IRS agent who went after Berry Bonds for taking steroids had instead done his job and audited Donald Trump's tax returns. Doesn't matter to me if the audit cleared or convicted him - at least it wouldn't be an issue when we have much larger issues facing us every single day.
4
@William
Here is a clear example of the ignorance of how government agencies operate. You seriously believe any of the agents who investigated Bonds had any choice as to whether they could investigate Trump? Different offices and different divisions within the FBI.
8
@William Have to agree here and best example is 9/11. Was anyone in the alphabet agencies ever held to account for letting the perpetrators get on those planes? They had been following them for months.
@BK
Hi, the facts are that it was an IRS agent who started and ran the Bond's investigation. That said, the IRS, not the FBI should have taken the lead on the Trump investigation while leaving the Russian issue with the FBI.
As for the officers who did the work, in my 21 years with various agencies (mostly on the defense vs. civil side), I saw numerous situations where an officer would raise the issue of purview. In the majority of cases, the the request was dropped or referred to another agency.
Her arrogance. She thinks prison is for low-income people of color. She can't wrap her head around the fact that she committed crimes and might actually be held accountable. Being rich, white, and attractive is not going to save her. At least I really hope is doesn't.
329
@Anne Lori’s acquittal will be a sad reflection of our society. Without question, it’s anathema to NYT readers that Lori’s skill in reading the social tea leaves of society will preserve her freedom.
8
@Anne -- But the way things actually work is that being rich, white and attractive gives a criminal defendant a lot better shot.
13
@Ignorance Is Strength: I realize that. But I think she's going to be held accountable DESPITE those factors. She should have taken the plea deal.
5
The Scheme and the Plea = fueled by the same illusion:
$$ + Celebrity = Privilege, Protection, Exemption, & Immunity.
What illusion will she choose to live by in prison?
54
In a saturated society fixated on the cult of celebrity, why wouldn't Lori Loughlin not take her chances with a pool of 12 star-struct jurors? Should we be surprised by a Cook County prosecutor who recently decided to drop all charges against Jussie Smollett? And would Trump be in the White House if it wasn't for "The Apprentice?' A sad commentary of our time is if you're famous and you shoot someone of 5th Avenue, you'll probably get away with it!!
255
@J.C. Brooks You hit the nail on the head. We live in a society that cares much more about who got killed on 'Game of Thrones' than the minorities being shot right outside their streets. We have a culture that will write outraged petitions over super-heroes dying in Marvel movies but won't bother to vote for their own community. This is a culture of no accountability; a culture where the junkie is a victim for pursuing indulgence or someone can sue McDonald's for gaining weight. It makes complete sense that Loughlin would hedge her bets.
26
I don’t mind the fact she wants to part with $500K to help her failing child get in, as long as they are not shoving out one who applied and is talented. Those tests have little to do who succeeds and who fails.
3
@rebecca1048: They faked photos as if her daughter were on the crew team. That's pretty awful. And a really bad example to set for your kids. Lie and buy your way through life.
159
@rebecca1048
It's a zero-sum game. Every spot filled by a less than deserving applicant is one not filled by a deserving one. Your best hope is that her kids pushed out some other b-level celebrity's unqualified child....
5
@rebecca1048
Her kids are not innocent in all this. They both knew that they had no idea of how to crew.
15
Her smugness and sense of entitlement are palpable. She is a sociopath.
201
Looking at the serene, self-satisfied smile on Loughlin’s face as she emerged from the courthouse, I had exactly the same thought. Chilling.
25
I'm not surprised. All it takes is one Juror, that is dazzled by " the pretty
Blonde Mom " act. Just you wait, she's probably a better actor than we think. At least SHE didn't grab anyone.
Seriously.
45
You know, so many families sweat and strain to get kids through college that this story is really sickening.
Seriously, getting your kids through college without burdensome debt is now like a lifetime achievement award event.
117
I hope an attorney with experience in federal cases will post his/her thoughts on this strategy here.
18
@Cal When I was an AUSA doing cases here in Vermont, defense counsel always knew that if they wanted the government's assistance AT SENTENCING that "the bus was leaving" and that their client had better get on board sooner than later. DOJ had a policy (the infamous Thornburgh memo that prohibited prosecutorial discretion) that said the strength of the evidence dictated the type of crime charged and NOT whether or not the defendant fell on their sword. Those actions, or so-called "acceptance of responsibility" were appropriate for a judge to consider in imposing sentence, but could not alter the offense charged. Huffman did the right thing early on (the bus was leaving) and from what seems to be very strong evidence, Loughlin will probably do likewise.
7
I am extremely curious to hear what is going to be her defense, given the entire USA can see how things stand there, more or less. But then again, we should not forget we have had a few hugely publicized cases (Eldorado for TV, justice aside) where things ended upside down vs. what we all thought would be the outcome.
14
I'm guessing she's hoping for a Presidential pardon.
74
@bruce
I'm guessing she'll be disappointed.
3
@bruce Her husband is an avid Trump supporter. So there's that.
9
they will all walk - they will blame the fbi and the rest for entrapment. none of them will serve any time at all. watch….
22
I truly hope so
Hubris --> Nemesis
11
She has to know she is the tip of the iceberg in this cheating scandal. This has probably been going on for years and would have still been going if not for a whistle blower. The Elite schools playing dumb is disingenuous. People of means expect Privilege and sad to say they get it. The other parents who have not been caught yet must be shaking in their boots. These people will find that bragging rights sometime have consequences. It would have destroyed their egos if their kids went to a lowly State School? if their children didn't know what mommy and daddy were doing they certainly didn't need to go to college any college. The silver lining in this is that The Elite Schools can never pretend what has been going on for years is not going on. How do these schools address the kids who played by the rules, had the grades and didn't get in? I have yet to see them apologize to the ones who didn't make the cut. Rejection letters to the schools you worked your tail off to get in are very painful.
35
@Steven McCain I know a lot of "people of means" and the only "privilege" they expect from an elite school is legacy standing, if their child is such. Even then, they know full well, that the vast majority of legacy children are NOT accepted - Harvard says 75%, Yale says 80% - legacy children NOT accepted.
Elite schools are guilty of some pretty big "social engineering, through their policies of "preferred status" for many applicants who are under-represented minorities and first generation to go to college. But they do not "sell" places to their schools. Oh, how many a wealthy parent wishes they did!
Yes, one can work very hard, get great grades and test scores and still not be accepted. Statistics for the Class of 2022, show that 306,909 students applied to the Ivy Leagues universities; 21,846 were admitted. LOTS of disappoint out there!!! Such is life... I'm sure all those who were not admitted were admitted somewhere and have had a good freshman year.
It's not a breeze to attempt to be a "recruited athlete". Coaches play a lot of games - it's far from a sure thing, and most of these athletes have spent at least the last 6-8 years, playing their sport at a very high level...and keeping up their academics so they can be accepted at an Ivy or other elite school. They didn't just have a picture taken of them on a rowing machine or wearing a water polo cap.
3
@India
How did George W Bush Jr. get in Harvard since he was always a C student his entire life? Oh yeah that's right his dad.
5
@India Were any of these kids from families with no means? If you are trying to say the playing field is level you are being disingenuous. No matter how you try to dodge this if these lawbreakers children's way wasn't greased a truly deserving child may have gotten in. You believe Harvard and Yale legacy stats? I guess you also believe Harvard and Yale had no idea about what was going on in the current scandal also. Really ???? My son Crewed and he practice four times a week It must be a Breeze for these recruited athletes because even thought she knew nothing of rowing she got in. Really?
I don't understand this plea at all...can some criminal,lawyer please explain why this was a good idea? Seems like evidence is pretty overwhelming of their guilt. Are they Hoping a jury finds her sympathetic? Her delay caused even more serious charges to be added...i would love to know rationale.
17
@Sharon Defense Attorney may have his own revenue stream in mind regardless of how the chips fall. Questionable ethics, a rot from within audaciously championed by celebrity, as a virtue, on Instagram.
@Sharon
I suggest a law school degree or at least a criminal law and procedure classes. Pleading not guilty is procedural. It carries no meaning. It’s not unethical to plead not guilty.
@Sharon
Things are not always the way they seem. Or the way they are presented in the NYT. None of us have seen any of the evidence, so what do we know? How many people were certain that:
OJ would be found guilty
Richard Jewell bombed the ATL Olympic
The Central Park 5 were guilty
The Duke LAX players were guilty
Hillary would win
Mueller would crucify Trump
1
My advice is that Lori Loughlin should run for public office. I think constituents appreciate how dedicated she is to the people she is responsible for, and that could also include the public interest in theory. Plus I believe her transgressions are far less serious than virtually any politician who’s been playing the pay-for-play game their entire careers. Loughlin 2020!
11
Will she be the new star of a jail based reality show? Making lemons out of lemonade.
42
She left a paper trail of money, recorded phone calls and has pretty much admitted to all of it. I think she's getting bad legal advice.
Pleading 'not guilty' on the basis of just trying to do "whatever any parent would do" to help their kids is very risky. I think she's going to be given serious prison time where she can ponder about her sense of entitlement.
305
@RP Smith I am hearing that she is not LISTENING to her legal counsel. She was advised to take a deal that included a stiff fine and a couple years in a MinSec, but she doesn't believe that she will actually be jailed. Offering a plea of not guilty is sure to make things worse. And her reported behavior fits in with other rumors I've heard that say she's doesn't seem to understand that she's in serious trouble.
121
@C. Allen That's why I can't wait for the trial. Now she will get years if convicted.
34
@RP Smith. It does appear she's playing a dangerous game, doesn't it?
15
there are a couple of thoughts about all this
ahem...
1. what perverse set of incentives do we have have in our country which allow anyone to make so much money..that they can write a check for $500,000 on top of the exorbitant tuition costs.
As a free marketer..where is the competition that should be coming in and keeping their salaries lower..their economic profit at 0
2. What perverse sense of entitlement also exists to justify, in their minds, their not being guilty
things are screwy...
133
@wfkinnc. The husband has very longstanding and successful clothing business. She has been a working actress for many, many years. Its not like they were given handouts for their wealth. They earned it. Whats wrong with that? Their behavior is another matter entirely.
20
@Sharon
What is wrong is the disproportionate remunerations these 'celebrities' get for relatively little work. Look at her daughter, the 'poor' girl does have no interest in a university education, but she is an 'influencer' and made quite a lot of money with that already. At merely 19 years of age, 6-figure amounts, she received. Now she lost all her sponsors, thanks to her mother's ambition to be able to brag about daughters at USC.
Another case of parents who fail to see the real talents of their children and push them into an education, for which they apparently have no talent at all. Creating a society with only academics warrants for shortage of craftsmen and -women.
13
@Sharon Mossimo did indeed get a handout from his father to start his mediocre clothing business. Look it up.
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Sounds like Lori isn't getting good legal advice.
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@Alan - Can you blame her for thinking she's above the law and will get away with it? Rich people rarely go to prison in this country. I'll be shocked if she does a day in jail, even though she probably deserves to.
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@Alan
Naw! I think she knows exactly what she is doing. And I support it. That is the only way to shed light on the hypocrisy that underlies the college admission system.
Gee, pretty stupid move: her money will not do her much good in prison, except at the commisary.
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@sonya
I don't think she'll go to prison. Like someone here already mentioned, she'll probably will have to pay a substantial fine and do some community work.
How on earth she can plead 'not guilty' baffles me. She got her daughters into that USC by cheating, right? So how can she plead 'not guilty'?? Anyhow, from what I see of the USA judicial system, it is totally different from what we have here in West-Europe, to say the least...
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I had never heard of her until this case arose. As I understand it, she is a fair to middling actress associated with fair to middling family TV fare. So I can seee how there is a lot at stake for her, as her career depends a lot on branding and image, rather than talent. If she were to plead guilty (or if she is found guilty at a trial) her career will basically be over (ditto her husband). So she pleads not guilty in attempt to save it (either that or she is just really really stupid).
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@ellienyc
Or both.
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@ellienyc Her show already dropped her as did Lifetime television, where she made a lot of insipid tv movies.
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@ellienyc -Her career probably won't be over, do you really think she's the only celebrity who's done this?
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Good for her! Accused is not guilty.
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@No Accused is not adjudicated. It isn't not guilty.
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I'm probably in the minority here. In advance, I apologize for sounding so cold and callous. But the last thing I want to see in the NYT is yet another story on Lori Loughlin and that smug smile. For her to "largely appeared upbeat" more often than not clearly suggests such arrogance in assuming she will walk away from this entire travesty with merely a fine and probably community service.
I'd rather read about the many students and their parents who were denied entrance into these schools for what reasons? Let's count the ways, shall we?
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@Marge Keller
Yes, they seem as if they broke the law, their behavior is smug and arrogant and they should be punished. But let's not kid ourselves.
Not very many students were denied entrance because of these improprieties, and it would be impossible to identify them. That said, those few are most likely affluent and high performing students who ended up with plenty of viable options. They just happened to actually do the sport, and they earned their test scores fair and square.
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@James
Well stated James. Thanks for offering some balance and reason to my emotional "shooting from the hip" remark.
Much appreciated.
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@Marge Keller
There is a ton of grey area here. There is precious little sympathy for anyone in the U.S. but there is still some understanding of adovcating for your children. Parents, after all, need to have the backs of their kids and look out for them. She wanted her kids to get into a University, and she paid someone to make it happen.
She’s an actress, that’s not an accident, in this case. There is no profession on earth more subjective in getting a job than the acting profession. Less deserving actors get rewarded all the time, that’s just the way it is. They use every type of influence, from people they know, to photo doctoring, to being friends with the likes of Harvey Weinstein. Clearly, from her perspective, she was just using all her influence and advantage to get her daughter the, “job.”
The legacy kids walk right in, with the bar lowered to where they can step over it. The contribution types get a pass as well, but that’s more in the multiple millions catagory. Everyone else is taking endless prep classes and paying shills to take the tests. It’s a sham, for a good percentage of applicants and anyone would surmise that cheating, for lack of a better word is, acceptable.
The system is rotten to the core, and Lori Loughlin is a scapegoat for it.
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Can someone explain how this exactly fits with the two fraud statues she is being charged under?
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@Penn Towers I think what is going on is the prosecution is claiming all of her charitable contributions were bribes and she knew it. She is maintaining. I think that she thought they were charitable contributions to the college athletic dept and all of this is quid pro quo much like dubya getting into Yale because of his wealthy parents.
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@danS Oh please! Let's get over "W" getting into Yale on his family coattails. Has anyone ever wondered why the other Bush children didn't go there? Perhaps they were not qualified and "W" was? He still had to graduate and he did.
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@India His grades and SAT's were the pits. If it makes you feel better I think John Kerry got in in a similar way.
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Throw the book at her and her husband.
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A true crime of wealth. Lock her up.
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Not sure why Lori L is considered the highest profile defendant in this scandal. She is at best a "B" or maybe even a "C" actress, while Felicity Huffmann is deservedly so an Oscar nominee for her role in Transamerica.
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@Concerned Citizen Felicity Huffman, as mentioned in the article, has pleaded guilty. Lori Loughlin is probably the most famous of those who have not done so.
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It probably didn't help that there are videos of Lori Loughlin's daughter, a social media influencer that had millions of subscribers at one point, saying things that many feel showed a complete disregard for the achievement and privileges that come with admittance to USC. She said things that made it clear that a college education in general was not a high priority for her. Altogether, her daughter arguably came off in the videos to many as someone extremely ungrateful, conceited, elitist, and self-centered. That made Lori's situation more high profile and visible. Since Felicity and the others didn't have that issue. Felicity's daughter's influence basically backfired.
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@Concerned Citizen Not a higher profile than Felicity Huffmann, but a much more egregious crime.
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"In court appearances, Ms. Loughlin has largely appeared upbeat." Yeesh. Hope she gets the maximum sentence. The smugness is astounding.
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@Elizabeth Indeed, which is why -- if she is actually guilty -- needs to be convicted and sentenced to at least three years in prison.
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@Jared with the money laundering charges, she could he up for 40 years.
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@Elizabeth
My guess is that she is very well medicated in this photo. Not that that is a defense, as I agree, the smugness is palpable.
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Given the money they allegedly paid to get their girls into USC, and the brazenness of their alleged actions, Lori et mari are probably pursuing a logical course of action. They're used to their money and notoriety getting them special treatment, and they probably figure it's worth going to court and fighting, given that even a guilty plea now and public confession wouldn't keep them from jail.
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As a UCLA grad, all I can say is: Half a mil to get into USC? We crosstown rivals didn’t call it the University of Spoiled Children (or University of Second Choice) for nothing. Give me a break.
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