I walked by Notre Dame yesterday. Police was protecting its surroundings, while the "gilets jaunes", gregarious and predatory as yellow jackets, were raising hell through the city
I felt mixed feelings about the fire, my country and the catholic religion. I am a French agnostic Jew in a country which has been antisemitic for centuries, with the benediction of the catholic church.
Still, I am a Frenchman with the idea that somehow, Notre Dame stands for France. I am disgusted by the Catholic Church taking advantage of the event to victimize/enforce itself, but I am proud that France's ultrawealthy families are contributing millions for its repair. I contributed myself.
5
notre dame already looks better without the 19th century spire. lets hope they leave it out for the restoration and not build a modern glass spire as per the reichtag
1
the whole glory of this mouldering old building is in its flying buttresses, central window medallion and two columnar wings. the interior is dank, unremarkable, and does not, by far, live up to the promise of the exterior. the human eye sees what it wants to, and if symbolism of religion is the objective, I guess it has won the weep eyed observers over, and succeeded in its quest. as billionaires rush to pledge unneeded portions of obscene fortunes to its "restoration" I can seen them now, envisioning their segment of a bronze plaque as if they could ever hope to be elevated to the position of gods, with money made on the backs of others.
1
Thank you Mr. Kimmelman for your thoughtful article on Notre Dame. This is the monument that I see from my window when I spend time in Paris. You mentioned that Viollet-Le-Duc added many ornate touches to the spire. Indeed, he added 12 apostles and he modeled St Thomas (the patron of architects) after himself. One can see him holding his T-square in one hand and admiring the spire he had just built. The apostles were recently taken down when a scaffolding was built around the spire. The first spire which housed up to 5 bells and lasted almost five centuries was dismantled from 1786 to 1792. Notre Dame stayed without a spire until Viollet-Le-Duc did some renovations. Now I am sure that among historians the debate will be : What spire to built, the first one or the second one?
5
@D. MayMay I think that if you look behind the cathedral in a little park, you'll find the original spire. That's what they would put upon there, IMHO.
1
@Joseph
To my knowledge nothing remains of the first spire. Over time it was leaning very badly and the joists were very distorted. The spire like monument in the garden at the back of the cathedral is actually a fountain which, in 1845, was designed in the Neo-gothic style by architect Alphonse Vigoureux and sculptor Merlieux. The garden itself opened to the public in 1843.
During the revolution some statues on the facade's cathedral were be-headed and the heads and other fragments are now housed at the Musee De Cluny. On my next trip I will look if the fountain is still working. Thank you for reminding me of the garden, I have not gone there for a while.
Wow, there is certainly an outpouring of ugly in many of these comments. Fortunately most people share memories of Paris, going to Notre Dame. But the nastiness of some of the comments leaves me thinking that our appreciation of history, beauty and architecture are under siege. Conspiracy theorists seem to be coming out of the woodwork already when NO confirmation of cause has been determined - likely won't be til they go thoroughly through the wreckage. But the volume of nastiness and blame threatens to outdo the people commenting on the loss of one of our greatest treasures. And the doomsayers and "world is ending because we don't believe" types don't help at all. Maybe we can all donate a bit to the restoration, and stop the blaming. We will know how this happened; this restoration has been going on for some time. It may be a blessing in disguise that now will raise enough money to rebuild this monument not just to believers, but to history and humanity's work of 800+ years.
9
French investigators, who make decisions based on forensic evidence rather than RW propaganda, do not believe the fire was caused by arson. It may have been the result of ongoing restoration work.
10
@Bill
We do not know how they make their decisions, or how their findings get translated by politicians.
1
While no official cause has been announced, an act of terror by any adherent of either one of the three Abrahamic faiths is most certainly ruled out, because of the close association of the cathedral to the figure of Our Lady, whose existence is undisputed to all these believers. She inspires love and devotion from Catholics but also commands respect from everyone of all branches.
The crowds of young people, dressed in black, hooded sackcloths, singing dirges, reminded me of some medieval tableaux. They know that civilization’s descent into chaos and survival of the fittest is imminent.
4
A well intentioned article. Can we please demand a higher standard from American media however than the constant resort to stereotypes when referring to any European country? The Yellow Vest movement is not a response to a “frayed social safety net.” Why is France always portrayed in the US as a nation of people living in welfare when it is the second economy of Europe and the fifth or sixth in the world? The Yellow Vests movement was triggered by the squeeze on the buying power of working and middle class people, especially in regional and rural France. Americans should even more be on the street for that reason.
23
@Ashley
Great point Ashley! It appears to me that this NYT reporter is looking to create more intense drama than what really may exist. A strategy for selling news. For me as a former resident of Italy, I saw the collapse of the bridge in Genova in a different light. The city shut down the next day as a protest. This action spoke to their government who is now working on finding funding for infrastructure.
3
I can't believe that the media, including the NYT, are referring to the patently fraudulent "relics" that were "saved" as "priceless cultural treasures": Jesus'(supposed) crown of thorns and a (supposed) piece of wood and nail from the cross. Throughout history, there have been enough claimed pieces of the "true cross" to build a cathedral. "With reference to relics like the nails and the wood of the cross—they are the greatest lies" (Martin Luther).
5
@Ed Read Might I suggest your reading William Manchester's "A World Lit Only By Fire" before quoting the opinions of the seriously disturbed Martin Luther. He saw devils defecating in the corner of his room. There's an image not easily forgotten. Peace.
Your quest for symbolism seems to be very far fetched from a French point of view. The yellow vest protests gather now approximately 30k extremists, decreasing each Saturday, representing less than 0.05% of the population. The yellow vests are not the real France. From my point of view this ordeal is an opportunity to rebuild a better version of Notre-Dame, more robust to external threads, more durable. Symbolism is a question of point of view. Fluctuat nec mergitur is the motto of Paris.
10
@Jacques Gangloff
What created this squeeze on their buying power? I thought it was a raise in taxes.
1
@Oxford96 Sir, a rise in taxes on diesel fuel which is widely used in France, especially in rural France by farmers and truckers and by people who, unlike Parisians, do not have access to excellent public transportation was the proximate cause of the "Gilets jaunes" movement.
4
Michael, it was horrible to watch the most horrible fire of our timethat almost consumed an old and renowned Catholic Church in France.
Maybe this fire that almost toppled the 1100 years+ old Church of Notre-Dame is the culmination of years long Vatican leaders reluctance to take any actions against the pedophile Bishops and Cardinals of all the Catholic Churches of the world including U.S.
So it is not only the citizens of France who're weeping now but the entire world is weeping to see a monolithic structure that stood through revolutions and invasions crumbling down in a devastating fire that should've been predicted given amounts of wood that were used in the construction of it.
But what current Pope called Francis has to realize is that if he doesn't take any actions in handing over every criminal Church employees to the authorities for sexual abuses of the nuns first and then veryyoung boys and girls, then maybe more of these great historic churches will either be consumed by fire to be started by lightning.
Or just consumed by huge sinkholes started by earthquakes.
Why ?
Because Jesus is angry. Our Holy Master is angry to the point of destroying the same religion that his namesake had began.
Pope Francis should realize that his God cannot bear this pain any longer after watching hundreds and thousands of young boys and girls who're still being molested in hundreds of Catholic Churches all over the world.
Jesus wants to end it all by destroying all the churches.
Bonjour, as a french woman, i am very thankful when i see a large part of the world sharing our griefs im difficult times (like the attentats of Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan or now the fire at Notre Dame). This solidarity makes us feel understood and that’s very important in the difficult times we are living through.
What happened yesterday is a wound to our soul. I used to live a few meters from Notre-Dame and I can’t imagine she could not be here for ever.
Yet, thinking of the planned reconstruction, i was thinking that it might be the moment-not to go 100% back in the past - but to look at the future and to include actuel art pieces and architecture within the old walls of the cathedral. A bit like we did in the 80ies when the glass pyramid was built in the middle of the Louvre. Maybe it’s a good opportunity to think about that?
16
@Corinne
This is just a personal opinion, but horror of horrors!
Many years ago in my grotty hotel room on Isle St Louis I got to hear the Notre-Dame bells late at night when the ringers were practicing; it was a celestial sound that I'll never forget. The bells seem to still be intact but, I suspect, the towers may have been weakened to the extent that it may not be possible for them to be rung. I hope I'm wrong. It's time for a search to see if there's a tape of them ringing the changes.
6
Yesterday, Fox News Tucker Carlson, carefully wove the Cathedral fire into his lead piece- The decline of Christianity in Europe .. Then lightly blew his [we don't know for sure] dog whistle that this could have been perpetrated by non-Christians.
2
@Aaron Dog-whistle or no dog-whistle, I will NEVER believe that an act such as the immolation of the most prominent and sublime Christian icon in all of Europe could have been perpetrated by non-Christians, and you shouldn't fall into this sort of backward-thinking trap either ! They just WOULDN'T do anything like that !
1
@Aaron
And you are objecting to the validity of which specific part of his show--that Christianity is declining in Europe, that this could have been perpetrated by non-Christians, or what?
I assume you are aware that on average two churches a day have been desecrated and vandalized in France over the past year, up 17 percent from the prior year.
Did he happen to mention that? How about the plunder of Notre-Dame des Enfants Church in Nîmes during which vandals used human excrement to draw a cross there; and consecrated bread was found thrown outside among garbage? No?
3
@Iman Onymous
Right. Perish the thought.
Oh, stop larding reporting on the terrible destruction of Notre Dame with the simplistic editorializing story-line about this "symbolizing ... recent social and political unrest."
Notre Dame's destruction is terrible. Period; full-stop!
Notre Dame symbolizes Paris to many people, as it has for centuries.
Report on the news and leave the over-generalizing, "symbolizing" to opinion writers. That's where this sort of assertion belongs--not in a new report!
12
The crucifix at the altar survived, and I have asked myself, what is God trying to tell us with this unholy tragedy during Christianity's holiest week?
4
@Terry Constantine:
Although I'm not the epitome of Christian faith (as I lean towards Buddhism), I was deeply saddened by this catastrophe, and equally moved by the image of this most Christian of symbols radiating beauty, rising above the ashes -- as a modern day resurrection.
5
@Terry Constantine
And how did you answer yourself, Terry?
1
Like all symbols and history, Notre Dame’s meaning is constructed. And the meaning of that church has a greater power to another generation and era than that reported here. At the outbreak of WW2, the photographic image of Nite Dame’s west entrance piled high with sandbags in defense against a violent and powerful fascist army signified defiance, determination, and resistance to millions even when Paris was occupied. One could even say that that photo, like that of London’s St. Paul’s dome through through the clouds of Nazi bombs, was a symbol that spoke to higher human ideals. To see now what the Nazi’s dared not do, hurts us all.
4
@RLW
You can't keep your symbols sandbagged all the time, and the enemy of Christianity in France and all Europe is well within the gates.
1
@Oxford96
The enemy of Christianity is Christianity itself falling back in the primitive, inhumane, tribalist misunderstandings about life inbaked in its foundational texts and the primitive minds that conceived, assembled, and redacted them, like early William Barrs.
The enemy has always been inside the gates, since it is us.
In much the same way humanity is its own enemy in other religious cultures unable to detach themselves from their innate primitivity.
It's the sand, the specks of sawdust, and the planks in our own eyes and minds causing the bags underneath and the blue in and around them, stupid!
Still, as soon as we go and embrace the opportunity to reunite in clarity with our hearts and our souls instead of continuing to project our own shadows on each other and even going as low as to cry Mexican rapists into the beautiful faces of our fellow Christians while indulging ourselves in assault in the barely hidden wings, there is progress, elegance, rebalancing and reconciliation, joint beauty creation and appreciation, harvest, and healing.
There is the saving (grace) of Notre Nature.
4
It is interesting that the article says nothing about the role Notre Dame played in faith historically. Ultimately, the church stands for Christ and for those who recognize that Jesus demonstrated a way to live: his most important credo is to love another as you love yourself.
France---indeed the world---is answering that question right now. What are all faiths teaching us about loving one another? Is America practicing a loving faith when our president tells us to separate impoverished mothers from their children at our borders? When a Saudi king murders a reporter and the world looks the other way? Or when reporters in France are murdered because they publish a cartoon about Muhammed? When Israelis quarantine Palestinians in the name of faith? When Jews are killed by Neo-nazis in Philadelphia while worshiping? When black churches are still being burned to the ground in America? In the 21st century, 1 young, white Charlottesville girl now rests with 9 black martyred souls because 2 angry white men can not tolerate equality.
Tell us about the teaching of faith in Notre Dame's history. Maybe the fire is Christ crying out to humanity to stop during this sacred week and think about are we loving one another? Are we willing to rebuild our relationships and our thoughts about others as we rebuild this cathedral? That is the most important aspects of its history to claim, if indeed such a message was ever its.
May Notre Dame's flames reignite our love for all.
5
To the heroic Sapeurs-Pompiers de Paris - chapeaux bas !
Fire Brigade saved the cathedral frame w/out any life lost!
Their exhausting work has to continue for many more days to save/secure all that's possible.
Lets hope president Micron will not mess up too much in the rebuilding, to make himself more important/ palatable to the French.
As we weep together w/our French cousins, LIFT UP YOUR HEARTS:
* A beautiful video-LOVE-LETTER to the Notre-Dame de Paris, posted while fire was still burning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j7q58-fCAM
Notre Dame de Paris (Belle) Je t'aime
The formidable music is from a world-famous 1998 French musical Notre-Dame de Paris, based on the the novel Notre-Dame de Paris (The Hunchback of Notre-Dame) by Victor Hugo. Music by Riccardo Cocciante. The song English version starts ~min.8.
This musical had over 20 versions in diff. languages, including Georgian and.. Kazakh. Was never brought to Broadway. It has been understood always that although the main record-breaking haunting song BELLE is dedicated to Esmeralda (Gypsy love of the Hunchback), known as BELLE (Beauty), the song pays tribute to the Cathedral Notre-Dame de Paris itself.
* Totally beautiful, truly stunning, just posted by the Notre-Dame de Paris, after the fire !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbdXXzhVKJc
The last music sung in Notre-Dame de Paris by the choir 😭💔 Stunning Stabat Mater!
In Latin, w/English subtitles
TCM is running the all French/French-themed films ..
2
(PS to my comment: Actually, as a command, "Be Best" is "Sois Le Meilleur," sorry)
So many questions , why didn’t Notre Dame have it’s own fire suppression equipment? , no sprinklers ?, who started this fire that just happens to be right before a major Christian holiday. The media is saying “it’s just a accident” yes of course , but we really want to know what actually happened.
In this #metoo age, I find the photo chosen to represent the view in the 1950s to be very odd. Does the woman look happy to be receiving the man’s attentions?
1
And Trump, such an expert in emergency response, suggests dropping water from air tankers. The force of that blow would probably have knocked down much of the structure that happily still remains. It would be good if Trump stuck to those things he knows a lot about, like stiffing contractors.
6
It was good to see Pete Buttigieg address the French in French: a reminder that there are still some sane, educated and humane government representatives in the United States.
Uh, Mrs. Trump ("Etre Meilleur") - how about you, isn't French one of your five languages?
4
A very good article in informed comment by Juan Cole provide a very informed perspective of the universality of this piece of History, if interested it is worth reading http://bit.ly/2DijiuT
1
Where will they get 13,000 trees of 300 to 400 years age, because that's what burned.
1
@Miriam Warner
Why, in Arkansas, that's where. Of course, Congress would have to allow a selective culling. But, yes, there are over 800,000 acres of old growth forest in Arkansas alone.
We could build 1,000 Notre Dames with 200-1,000 year-old oak. (and yes, we have plenty of lead production, too, unlike Europe). I just wouldn't want to open the door to commercial logging on those lands. But maybe a very selective culling of trees deemed by Forest Service experts to be likely to fall over in the next windstorm. An expensive project, but you could probably find 13,000 such mature oak trees on our Federal lands. 30+ meter long, two meter wide trunks.
Thank heaven the Democrats hold the house, though. Imagine Trump the Fire Pilot ginning up the idea of logging in our old growth forests? Yikes.
3
They probably won't use wood. I heard a discussion on the French radio where they explained that the cathedral in Reims, whose roof was similarly destroyed but due to war, was rebuilt using modern techniques. Aesthetically, it is not an issue since the roof cannot be seen from below. It would also make the cathedral more fireproof.
4
@Marie
Europe still has many forests and national parks as well.
1
To transform an old Neapolitan phrase: To see Notre-Dame and Die.
"In his landmark television series 'Civilization,' standing before Notre-Dame, the art historian Kenneth Clark asked: 'What is civilization? I don’t know. I can’t define it in abstract terms — yet. But I think I can recognize it when I see it.'
He turned toward the cathedral: ' And I am looking at it now.'"
Yes, he was looking at a symbol of civilization--Western Civilization-- which is, and has been, under serious attack in France for some years now. In the last year alone, an average of two attacks a day have been made on French churches. In one such attack, the shape of a cross was drawn in human waste. In another church, which had been thrice attacked, a 19th century statue of the Virgin Mary had been pulverized.
there have been over 1, 036 attacks on French churches in the last year, a 17% increase over the previous year. And France is not alone.
Who is primarily behind all this? A German report hints at an answer: "Crosses are broken, altars smashed, Bibles set on fire, baptismal fonts overturned, and the church doors smeared with ...[religious] expressions like '...[our god is greatest.'
1
What a tragedy! The same think happened to St Mark's Church in the Bowery, an historic NYC landmark. Just as a very lengthy restoration was on the eve of completion, a careless workman left a blow torch burning at the end of the workday resulting in most of the roof structure being destroyed. Thankfully the damage was repaired, and this will hopefully be the case here as well, notwithstanding what was irretrievably lost.
It survived two World Wars. Feels like God is trying to tell us something...
1
From Robert Kuttner, The American Prospect 4/16:
The neglect of Notre Dame is a metaphor for the despoiling of all God’s creation.
The French state, after all, is obsessive about that nation’s patrimony, and it doesn’t get more Gallic than the Cathedral of Notre Dame.... Notre Dame is what the French call a Monument, to French culture. Why did they keep putting this off, and then cutting corners?
France, when it was a much poorer country, managed to find the money to sandblast much of the City of Light. (When I first visited there, it was the city of dark. Most of the buildings including Notre Dame were near-black, from centuries of coal dust.) So why did a nonprofit foundation have to pass collection plates to try to find funds to repair Notre Dame when experts knew that it was near collapse?
The Fire This Time—come to the point, Bob—is of course a metaphor for the larger devastation of all God’s creation by an ungrateful and all-consuming humanity. It should be taken as warning. Humankind keeps neglecting all of the other warning shots, from glaciers melting, to exotic diseases spreading, to biblical floods, to the sharks invading my cherished Cape Cod beaches.
You don’t have to be a believer to notice. But let’s notice, for God’s sake. ...
Let’s take the near-destruction of the Cathedral of Notre Dame as a warning sign of the arrogance of man, whether from an angry God or from nature’s propensity to bite back and clean house.
Robert Kuttner
2
Victor Hugo humanized the cold-marble-statues & the hard-stone-gargoyles of Notre Dame cathedral in the touching scene of “The Hunchback of Notre Dame”, where lonely & ugly Quasimodo befriends them in “solitary conversation.”
“His cathedral was sufficient for him.
It was peopled with marble figures—kings, saints, bishops—who at least did not burst out laughing in his face, and who gazed upon him only with tranquility and kindliness.
The other statues, those of the monsters and demons, cherished no hatred for him, Quasimodo. He resembled them too much for that. They seemed rather, to be scoffing at other men.
The saints were his friends, and blessed him; the monsters were his friends and guarded him. So he held long communion with them. He sometimes passed whole hours crouching before one of these statues, in solitary conversation with it.
If any one came, he fled like a lover surprised in his serenade.”
5
My uncle was left for dead on the western front, near the German-Luxembourg-French border, in WWII. When troop reinforcements came back to gather the bodies, a GI noticed some sort of movement as they threw him in the truck with other bodies and shouted “Wait! This one is still alive!”
He only recently - about 3 years ago, better late than never - received the French Legion of Honor, as he was turning into his 9th decade.
One of his positive memories that he loved to talk about was stepping through the front doors of The Notre Dame.
7
I do admire the French Grace and Restraint on attaching culpability......America would've started a War .........immediately............
3
The burning of the Norte Dame cathedral saddens people of all faiths and its beauty and architecture transcend religions and religious beliefs. Would a similar fire in one of the world’s iconic mosques evoke similar responses? I hope we never find out, but the counterfactual raises important questions in the age of Trump and other right wing fear mongers.
1
Nobody was hurt, it will be rebuilt like countless other structures that have burned in the past. Meanwhile, tens of thousands are dying in Yemen, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela, they cannot be restored.
In the meantime, if you want to see a cathedral, go to Chartres, it's much better.
In this era of growing secularism, this great Architectural achievement should be replaced with a more fireproof option. Maybe the man/women upstairs wanted a new Reno.
The cause of the fire could have been anywhere on the spectrum from brutal terrorism to a worker still on site lighting up a cigarette at the end of a work day. I hope they soon find the cause.
1
The opening of this article sounds hyperbolic to me. "Now, France is burning"!!! Haven't we read that before? -- the recurrent riots or demonstrations. It's France as usual.
The only symbolism there would be more about Catholicism in France. Don't be fooled by the crowd chanting religiously in front of the Cathedral -- it's a swan song.
1
Mr. Kimmelman,thank you for a warm,expressive
article.
Congress and the president might want to amend our tax laws to allow deductions for contributions by Americans to disasters at world heritage sites or even for declared natural disasters here in the US.
Kenneth Clark got it right: It is civilization. This is what I mourned as I watched it physically go up in flames as it is doing metaphorically here in America.
I learned so much about Notre-Dame, that I would not have learned had it not been for the fire. I am sure millions of other people too. Sorry it happened this way, but hopefully it will recover and be safer too. No one died.
On the bright side, the rebuilding news as it goes on will be a welcome departure from the rest of the depressing news of the world. And provide jobs!
I hope the USA offers to supply new oak timbers to rebuild Notre Dame. Our way of repaying France for the gift of the Statue of Liberty. Europe may have lost its "forests" of the 11th and 12th centuries, but North America, for now, still has forests from which to rebuild this world cathedral.
2
What's amazing is how much money has already been pledged for the reconstruction of Notre Dame. As it should be! But one has to wonder with all the people in need around the world, why isn't money being pledged to them as quickly and easily as this. And I apologize in advance if this sounds cynical.
3
Linking a natural disaster to the state of political unrest in France is not only tactless, it is exploitative. As a French woman, I feel insulted by this article, which implies that the fire of Notre Dame de Paris is somewhat
"symbolic" of France today. This is not the first time that covert anti French sentiment seeps through a New York Times article. I wonder how Americans would feel if a major international publication had implied that the fires which devastated California were symbolic of the political American landscape today? Natural disasters are tragic and this loss is tremendous for the French. 500 hundred French firemen fought all night long in order to stop the fire, and our nation comes together in mourning. We stand united, not divided. I feel that this publication owes the French an apology today.
6
And who is weeping for our beautiful, blue and green Earth that we carelessly set on fire? What is our favorite postcard of a clear blue sea with fish and corals, not plastic trash? Or of the white Java rhinos by a blue river - alive, not dead? Or of the unlogged and unburned forests in California? Their quiet beauty persisted for millennia, not for a mere 850 years, but we never go to work by them, so we will not mourn their disappearance until they're gone in deafening silence. They all are/were our grand human heritage from the beginning, not for the short 850 years!
2
We will rebuild. For now let us all try to see beauty for ashes.
The world is also weeping for France at the destruction of one of the most beautiful religious symbols in the world. For those of us who have been lucky enough to visit this magnificent Cathedral we are especially sorrowful to see this beautiful structure go up in flames. We feel for the French people that this tragedy occurred and it is so sad to have come during the most religious season in the Christian calendar of Holy Week. They should know that we are with them in this very tragic time and they are in our thoughts and prayers. They are a wonderful people who are beloved by many.
8
Heartrending to see the flames rising from the roof of Notre Dame yesterday. This beautiful cathedral symbolizes the history of Western civilization and the enduring spirit of France. We can now only mourn what was lost and do what we can to contribute to rebuilding and preserving it for generations to come.
3
Very sad after seeing this noble iconic building ablaze. Like many readers, I have spent many wonderful moments in Paris gazing at Notre Dame or just walking by on my way somewhere. I have visited the inside as well and felt the imposing hush of history around me. The hardest part is that our French friends must suffer this loss as well. Notre Dame belongs to France and we must support our French friends in their loss. While this is big news now, will anyone care a month, six months, one year from now? The rebuild will take at least 5 years. With readers' attention span, who will remember? American readers barely- no rarely- remember fundamental historical events that don't touch them personally.
3
@JJ
Nothing more than a tourist stop today. Macron's heavy heart is not for Notre-Dame, but, undoubtedly like Sartre if he were alive, for its economic value.
I have lived in France for over three decades and yesterday learned about this place which I call home and the people I have come love and respect. At first seeing the flames engulfing Notre-Dame I felt a sense of loss overtaking me. A symbol of civilisation, with all its history, tragedy, triumphs, losses, humanity, inhumanity was disappearing before my eyes and those of the world. I zapped between French and American news, got calls from family and friends, Facebook feeds all were on the spectacle. For Americans all was lost for sure, hyperbole and even some conspiracy was prevalent. But, in the midst of it all, from France, rather than hysteria and dejection a calm resolve became clear. Between the religious singing in the streets, the secular reading passages from Victor Hugo, the art and cultural experts reassuring us that we had the know how to rebuild. I was humbled by the determination. It was as close as I have ever felt, in this hyper rational country, to something like a collective prayer coming from everybody. Will the structure hold? We knew this morning, the edifice is fragile but sound. There will be new beginnings, the musicians will return, masses will be held, writers will continue to write about Notre-Dame... We will watch and follow as master artisans rebuild. We will debate shall it be a 19th century or 13th century reconstruction? Notre-Dame will still be part of French life, not loss. That's is, to me at least, as close to eternal as you can get.
19
@Marc Feldman Even if 13th century reconstruction wins out, I hope all its fire protection and other safety features will be as 21st century as possible. Best wishes (and I'll send some funding!) to France from North America, and may the rebuilding be swift.
1
I feel so much sadness about the damage done to Notre Dame, and for France as a whole. I have a great love of French literature, culture and history. I have studied French my entire life, have a Master’s in French and have been to France and Notre Dame several times. Yet, as someone from a recently decolonized country, still struggling with the ugly duality of that heritage there are complicated feelings that go along with my sorrow. I feel another, parallel twinge of sadness and, frankly, resentment over the out-poring of sympathy - because France, like other colonial powers plundered and destroyed the national treasures of its former colonies. I hope that this fire will puts things into perspective for those in France and the rest of Europe who are against repatriation of art stolen from former colonies – something President Macron wishes to see happen. Whether it be Notre Dame or the works in the Musée du Quai Branly, a country’s artistic heritage is a profound part of it’s people’s story. As France and the world reflect on the Cathedral's place in our world's heritage, may more people ask similar questions about what has been lost, damaged and displaced through the lens of colonization.
4
french or no, the loss or destruction or even fire of a monumental building or a carving or a painted work, from any country of any time, is a loss for all. Somehow, humans acknowledge their connection to these creations. They have had some action in our collective civilizing and we should know that.
6
I love Paris and I love Notre-Dame. But, the concern people have for this building and the history of Paris reminds me of the destruction of New York bit by bit. The developers are tearing down useful building just to make money. Paris is filled with old buildings that are not in danger of being torn down. Many buildings in New York are slated for destruction to build a bigger building, or to put a modern façade.
8
Images from Monday's fire brought back vivid memories of watching firefighters battle flames at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in December, 2001. Although that fire was much less severe, it of course came on the heels of September 11th and then the American Airlines crash in the Rockaways that November. That fall it felt like the world was coming undone, at least here in New York City.
In Kofi Annan's Nobel prize acceptance speech later that year, he said we had come into the 21st Century through a gate of fire - in the years since then, years that have brought so much violence, destruction and needless bloodshed, his words have echoed in my head again and again, and I hear them again today.
7
@Anna Living in the American Pacific Northwest, where we have no ancient buildings, I found myself reminded of the eruption of Mt. St. Helens. Something that had been there for so long, suddenly was gone.
1
An as Italian, I feel my French cousins’ despair over the loss of part of Notre Dame.
But I am also hopeful that this will be a historical moment for the French people to reflect on losses behind the physical structure of a church.
The young people singing the Ave Maria while the church was burning are the hope of France. The hope that the young French will again cherish their Catholic identity.
8
Given that this is the heart of French Catholicism, and given that slave owners used religion to justify their enforcement of slavery, I wonder how the citizens of former French colonies feel about the countless outpouring messages of grief and sadness from around the world that are being shared about the burning of this cathedral. Beautiful architecture IS beautiful architecture, but the amount of worldwide sadness being expressed about this event, is incredible.
9
@Michael Kindly keep in mind that the great cathedrals of Europe, including Notre Dame of Paris, were NOT built with slave labor. The citizens of cathedral cities-- skilled artisans and common laborers--did the building. This cannot be said of the great architecture of the Greeks and Romans, or of many of our own buildings, such as the White House, which WERE built with slave labor.
24
@Michael : This Paris ND Cathedral was built between 1100 and 1300 a.d. by workers of middle-age artisans, French and white; No slavery has ever built or participated in the construction of any Cathedral in France. The generous donors of the bride were merchants, Lords, chatelains. We know our history and slavery arrived in the Caribbean in 1700-1800 with the trafficking of Africans to the Americas. Inquire and study the Histoir of other countries in the world where the United States is not the center of the world..
1
@Michael
Yes. You express this poignantly and thank you for speaking up for those who cannot. The grief and sadness of past injustice cannot be undone. But we hear your voice and your outrage that a structure of the church carries more weight than people suffering. I do not know the answer. But as we used to say in the 60s, Keep the faith. We have to try. We are far from perfect. Just keep your head up and do your best.
An interesting feature of medieval period gothic cathedrals is that their construction took generations of labor amounting to about nine generations or 180 odd years in the case of Notre-Dame. The earlier ones knew that they would never live to see the finished structure but such was their fervor of faith that labored on believing that future generations would be the happy beneficiaries. And so it was with Notre-Dame. The incineration of even a portion of the structure is thus a loss of irreplaceable patrimony.
17
We can only imagine the thoughts and feelings of Parisians today in the wake of the tragic fire at Notre Dame. Suffice to say that if the world’s tears had been mobilized, they alone could have extinguished the terrible blaze. My wife and I feel privileged to have seen the cathedral intact last September, along with countless others who have sought solace and inspiration within its stone walls over time.
16
I did not want to see what I was seeing.
I am sad.
The cathedral will be restored but so much history was preserved in the structure that rebuilding it as it will be cannot recover what was lost. Those many wooden beams cut and shaped eight centuries ago are mostly gone. The methods used in building that structure are never to be repeated. The traces of the human efforts that the structure reflected are gone with the structure. What we are left with are our memories, now. The cathedral will be restored but it will be a new version.
11
@Casual Observer The people that built this cathedral were not educated in building. They were common laborers unskilled but determined to build a great Cathedral. Read the book "Pillars of the earth" by Ken Follett to see how many methods were tried and failed. The "flying buttresses" that are visible outside the building were designed to allow the walls to be built high w/o falling down. Techniques like these were tried over centuries. These builders did not go to architecture school and were ignorant of many building rules taken for granted today.
1
@John Lusk
Yet, their works stood for all those centuries. The human ingenuity while less based upon sound knowledge was no less than that of people today.
As a young foreign student in Paris in the mid-1970s, I walked by Notre-Dame almost daily to class from my little room (a "chambre de bonne," or maid's room). I always saw the cathedral as if it were a person: a lovely, elegant older woman who would outlive us all. Her large rose windows were what fascinated me the most, the loving care that must have gone into each one of them.
Notre-Dame is Paris -- more so than the Louvre, the Champs-Élysées, the Eiffel Tower, or the Arch of Triumph. If you know the city, you realize this. At first, I feared that the cathedral might be totally destroyed. It is such a relief to learn that she remains largely unscathed, including her magnificent rose windows.
23
@Mason
Not "largely unscathed," reports are much of the interior was gutted.
We mourn our Great Lady of Gothic renown,
This icon of Paris - most sought-out in town.
Biblical stories in stone and stained glass,
Instruct and illuminate words of the Mass.
The gargoyles wept and watched silently,
As fire consumed each nook and cranny.
We remain optimistic there will be a way,
To restore this Grand Dame - for this we will pray.
16
While this is a monumental loss, maybe in rebuilding there will be a renaissance in the old craft forms that were so much a part of Notre-Dame. The older crafts people will be able to teach a new generation and thus the old skills will not be lost to the world. Having something renewed and glorious rise from the ashes can symbolize the eternal creative spirit of France and of Paris.
28
I'm so grateful I got to spend time there. I feel like we've witnessed something so dreadfully momentous--like how it must have felt to watch the Colossus of Rhodes topple. Or the demise of the Hanging Gardens. I've been weeping for this lose since I saw her in flames yesterday. There's a gargoyle high up on the right hand tower I've always thought of as "my gargoyle". I took an especially good photo of her in the mid-eighties. I'm praying she, at least, survived.
17
Usually l never buy street souvenirs, but in 2012 because I love black and white photography, I got one of the church. It hangs in a small alcove in the kitchen. A friend lamenting that she's never been to Paris prompted me to reply that each morning having breakfast, looking at the image, I'm always in Paris. Also, as George Clooney said, there are great cities around the world, but then, there IS Paris. Vive la France!!
21
In the mid-1970s, I was trying to hold on to my new job teaching French history at CUNY. Budget cuts were threatening. On a trip to Paris, I lit a candle to Joan of Arc at Notre Dame, pointing out that she had saved France. If she wanted to save the teaching of French history at my school, could she please save my job?
Over 40 years later, retired, I returned to Paris hoping, among other things, to light a candle of thanksgiving to Joan of Arc. There were so many visitors that day that I could not get in.
So I publicly thank Joan of Arc here and hope, like millions of people, that the Cathedral can be refurbished and healed quickly.
30
I am an atheist. That being said Notre Dame is a place that even though it is a catholic cathedral, to me it transcends religion. It is a monument for mankind and a structure of inspiring beauty that has stood silently for 800 years watching the swirling mass of people and society progress and fail over and over again. It’s like a wise giant that acts as the heart of Paris.
I’ll never forget the first time I visited Notre Dame. My partner and I traveled to Paris for the first time last year. We went to Notre Dame first thing after arriving in Paris early on the morning. It was still dark outside when we first glimpsed the beautiful sleeping giant. It was like seeing an old friend. Immediately familiar and warm.
We went inside and being that it was January and before 8am the cathedral lay quiet and empty. We were able to gaze at the beautiful rose windows in silence and contemplate the vastness and beauty of a structure from the 13th century. I was able to close my eyes and feel myself at the center of one of the worlds greatest cities in one of the most beautiful structures on earth. Soon the tourists began pouring in and the inside of the cathedral began to buzz with activity. It was time to move on.
I will never forget my quiet moment of contemplation inside Notre Dame.
To see my dear friend injured like this has been very painful but I know that Notre Dame will be restored to its former glory.
39
In it's rebuilding Notre-Dame has to be one of the most photographed buildings in the world so there will be lots of documentation of the way it existed before the fire if it is to rebuilt in a manner than represents how it existed before the fire. All those photos will be of great help. If it is rebuilt with the kind of hand work that went into it the complete restoration will likely take decades to complete. I hope fire proofing and fire suppression systems can be incorporated so that she lasts centuries longer.
5
It has been deeply saddening to see the fire at Notre Dame Cathedral. It is known and appreciated for its history, location, architecture, and art all over the world. For Macron to say that it will be rebuilt and already French companies to make very substantial donations to help with this effort, and to know that important pieces of art were saved from the burning cathedral brings hope for its future. Although this will take a long time it is in the heart of Paris and significant to us all.
13
This is heartbreaking. I spent many months in Paris and this beautiful iconic structure is a treasure. My heart goes out to the French people.
11
Waiting for some billionaires to step up and offer a few million to help rebuild this treasure. Of course, in the U.S. we wait for billionaires to help fix our infrastructure too...our National parks, our bridges and roads and water treatment plants and tunnels, and rail systems. And we wait and wait and wait. While the billionaires buy yet another mansion or yacht or 20 million dollar penthouse. Because they need another one. So tired of all the world's oligarchies, including our own.
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@Eva Lockhart I guess you will be delighted to learn that billionaires Bernard Arnault (LVMH) and L'Oreal have each already pledged 200M Euros to the rebuilding of Notre Dame. Francois Henri Pinault (Gucci) and Total have each pledged 100M Euros. Others, such as Apple CEO Tim Cook, are chipping in as well.
@Eva Lockhart, Millennial, much? Try asking everyone to contribute their share.
Is there a recommended fund for restoration, to which we non-billionaires who also value Notre Dame cathedral can contribute?
@Eva Lockhart
Wait no more. This is already happening, started seeing it in the news yesterday: 600 million euros so far...
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/notre-dame-billionaire-pledges-200-million-euros-a4118781.html
My doctoral thesis was on the huge 17thc-18thc paintings presented annually at Notre-Dame between 1630 and 1707. More than a dozen of these were still in the cathedral when it burned. Although others are safe elsewhere in France, it's a sad loss.
Even worse: losing the fabulous medieval stained glass.
15
Notre Dame cathedral was incredibly beautiful. It’s loss is brutal, but I have no doubt that our friends in France will rebuild it, and it may be different, but ultimately it will be even stronger and more beautiful. Simply because that is the nature of Paris.
16
Oh, the drama! France is hardly in turmoil because of a fire in an old historical structure. Were they near panic while it was under renovation? Seriously concerned?
3
While uber-wealthy French business people have offered record sums for reconstruction, might France consider honoring its cultural symbolism by only accepting small donations so that all may share in this?
8
Notre Dame is the parish of « those without a parish » — embracing all of humanity. There is a special shrine to Our Lady of Guadalupe, watching over all the children being hurt by Trump’s abominable policies. May Notre Dame be rebuilt through an effort as vast and inclusive as our whole humanity!
6
The whole world mourns. Hearts everywhere are joined with the French today.
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@MIMA
No need to get overly-emotional. It's an important world heritage site, and for that reason, it should be properly restored. I'm not particularly enamored with the Catholic religion, but that's a whole separate issue. However, if one if going to be outraged over several centuries of past injustices, including slavery, what about the fact that King Henry VIII, way back in 1534, renounced the Catholic Church, based simply on the fact that it wouldn't let him get divorced?
I was there exactly a year ago and spent a half day just marveling at the architecture and reading up and walking around. I was also lucky to attend a service that day in the Cathedral. I had planned to bring my wife and two daughters this summer to Paris and my oldest had this as our first stop on our Paris itinerary. Alas, it will not happen.
3
Robespierre and his Committee of Public Safety would have burned it to the ground had they had the opportunity back in the day--on their way to making the France of today. Relic from France’s past. Not sure what they’ll miss–tourist dollars?
2
@Alice's Restaurant
Not a surprising comment from San Diego. When I was visiting Southern California my host said we were eating at a famous old establishment. When we arrived I asked what she meant by "old". "Why, it's 50 years old" she said. 50 years is old? My frame of reference in New England is that just minutes from my house I can eat at two restaurants in buildings built before the revolution. And they don't even compare to the 800 to 1000 year history of European cities and establishments.
The fire at Notre Dame is a powerful metaphor. Notre Dame represents all of Western civilization through its art & architecture, its form of spirituality, its history of politics and succession. Western Civilization is, in all its institutions, indeed on fire today. But a new structure will emerge on that solid foundation of stone. Liberte. Eqalite. Fraternite.
15
Certainly it took a vast amount of incompetence to burn down an international monument to civilization. So sad.
1
@Ron Boschan
Not really, the dry wood is basically like tinder. It is also really well ventilated, so it would burn fast and hot, like paper in a fireplace. There are also limited treatments to make wood less flammable.
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@Ron Boschan
The good thing is that the French firefighters did not listen to our ludicrous baby President!
I'm a little bit confused: is Notre-Dame still a catholic cathedral or just an architectural tourist attraction? I haven't seen any reports of comments from the Pope on down in any of the reports. Macron promises that France will rebuild: does he mean government or just with French (and international) donations? Who will lead this, will the church have any say or control of the rebuilding funds and a say in how the work is done (and will they be contributing)?
As a lover of France (and frequent visitor,and especially to Paris), I am saddened by the fire. It would be nice if all the billionaires coming out of the woodwork to fund the restoration would match it dollar for dollar for the poor the church was supposedly built by and for.
1
@Glenn
Another response here said that since the Revolution, the cathedral building has been the property of the French government. However, I understand that mass is still regularly celebrated there by Catholic priests. Don't quite know what the arrangement is there.
1
@Summer The historic agreement, I believe, was that the French government owns it and agrees to maintain the exterior while maintenance of the interior is the responsibility of the Archdiocese of Paris which holds regular services there.
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@Glenn Notre Dame is not a parish anymore. That happened recently.
In France, Historical Monuments are managed by the Ministry of Culture. The restoration of Notre Dame will probably made possible by a combination of public and private funds.
There is a law that prohibits non members of the Compagnons du Devoir et du Tour de France, a French organization of craftsmen and artisans dating from the Middle Ages to make renovations on structure classified as Historique. Although, relating to last night Pres Macron's short speech, I don't know if that will apply.
First, amazing that the nave was not more seriously damaged.
Second, amazing gear that the Parisian firefighters were wearing. New York’s best look like something out of a 19th century daguerreotype in comparison. Surely it is time to better equip our guys.
7
A sobering thought came to me as Notre-Dame burned....
We often do not divine the deeply spiritual, emotional, and cultural bond that we have to Christianity. Until it is in dire jeopardy of destruction.
It came to me that there may very well be a day in the future, perhaps still a few generations into the future, when the last church--perhaps one not even remotely qualified to be considered in the same breath with Notre-Dame--will close. Perhaps in a grande finale of fire...or perhaps just because the last aged parishioner has left for another City...or perhaps because it is too poor to be sustain itself any longer. I wonder if it might be that we will mourn its passing? If we will realize that something unutterably precious has passed from the stage?
I realize that my comments are perhaps overly-sentimental, but I could not help but notice that while France has become increasingly secularized and non-religious, it still mourned the incalculable loss due to the destruction of the fire. I sensed that the world was not morning just the loss of precious art and architecture and history...but something deeper. Perhaps we have a soul after all.
15
Yes, we see they symbolism of the cathedral, and it is certainly valid, but what concerns me is the destruction of national and world heritage treasures, like the National Museum of Brazil, whose fire destroyed irreparable collections recently. Old buildings catch fire, and as one expert stated, construction sites in old buildings can be very dangerous places. If that is the cause of the Notre-Dame fire, then we need to rethink and be extra vigilant on how to better protect these important and vulnerable icons.
5
The building was heavily damaged, but not mostly destroyed. Not to seem flippant, but the damaged portions can probably be rebuilt, next time with more flame-resistant materials, and hopefully with a more effective fire suppression system.
@dtifft, it might even be a real blessing in disguise. The outside will look the same for selfie takers to use for a backdrop but now the interior can be redesigned to exploit its full potential commercial value, complete with designer label flagship boutiques and corporate brands. Make it a real spiritual destination for the times. A Jumbotron rose window? Cool! Left Bank meets Time Square.
We still don't know precisely what caused this fire. I won't be in the slightest surprised, however, if it should turn out that whoever was responsible for the restoration work didn't train their workers adequately, and that an avoidable mistake led to the fire. I hope that an adequate inquiry will be carried out.
2
After the Easter/Pascua vacation break the school where I teach english(Colegio Boston) will begin a fundraising drive to help in the repairing of Notre Dame. It will be a small amount but we all have to help! I think many people all over the would want to be part of doing something constructive. I was lucky to visit there. i want the students here in Cancun to one day be able to experience what I did, and to say the help!
15
Construction on Notre Dame was begun about 850 years ago and took over 200 years to complete. The builders and laborers who laid the first stones never saw their work completed. Today we all mourn this tragic fire because we recognize it's historic loss.
Mother Nature took far longer to create the polar ice caps. Today, we are allowing the fires to burn that will eventually cause them to completely melt. When they are gone the entire planet will be far less hospitable to human and other life. It's sad and troubling that we are not extinguishing the fires of climate change with the same urgency.
23
Now that the12th century trusses are lost, may the structure of the roof be replaced by uninflammable beams. Normally, only watchmen ever goes up there. So, with the zinc/lead cover, the external aspect of the monument should not be affected.
4
Terrible. A loss much larger than the wonderful building itself. But it will endure and will represent Paris to the world forever.
4
A terribly tragic accident and I’m hopeful that Notre Dame is preserved and rebuilt. But can we PLEASE stop with the overwrought comparisons to 9/11?
It’s an insult to the victims of that awful day.
6
To Michael Schmidt:
I watched from the street in front of my home in lower Manhattan as the second plane hit and then as the first tower fell. I went upstairs after that, unwilling to watch what I knew would surely come next.
As I watched the spire of Notre Dame fall, I felt the same stabbing, piercing pain to my chest that I did as the first tower fell.
It’s a unique feeling, they are one and the same.
Comparisons are appropriate and it’s not for someone from Michigan who at best experienced it through the media to say otherwise. I know more than a few New Yorkers who have been triggered by this, and are feeling a solidarity with Parisians that you simply cannot understand.
"Cheapest bid" restorations burned Windsor Castle, too.
7
What a shame, more care should have been excised on such a national and international masterpiece. I am sure more care would go into a shopping centre or a football stadium. Let's hope thats its not a bad omen for France and Europe.
7
The fire truck hoses couldn’t reach the top. They were at least a hundred feet short. And no fire sprinkler system on a wood structure?
This structure has lasted 800 years. Now with all the technology today it some how catches fire and couldn’t be put out. The French have lost an enduring identity but has strengthened a growing one. That is ineptitude.
3
There are reasons why sprinklers could not be installed on this structure.
5
A Halon Fire suppressant system in that Attic could have smothered the fire right at its start.
Follow the money trail, this was not some unavoidable accident. If rebuilt it will be done with cheap substandard materials. Maybe that was the cause of the fire, subcontracting the renovations. Greed is not good.
2
The image of the cathedral burning is as disturbing as the photos of the twin towers burning. While I know that no lives were lost (thank God) in the Notre Dame fire, I cannot bear the images and I wish people would stop posting them. Fortunately I don't have a TV news habit, so I don't need to watch that scene over and over again.
I am taking my granddaughter to Paris this summer, and she will be denied what every tourist has done forever ... go up to the balcony with the gargoyles and see the view of Paris from Notre Dame. We are inconsolable.
5
The article seems to compare government neglect leading to tragedies in other monuments in other parts of the world to some government oversight in France. I would like to read more about that.
1
I agree that Norte Dame in flames physically reflects the social and cultural meltdown that is happening in Paris and the country. It is so sad.
3
@M what do you know about what’s going on in France? Was the recent fire in California a symbol of the turmoil of the US to deal with illegal immigrants? Was the flooding of Houston a symbol of how divided is our country? Sounds good as a sensational headline but this is pure tabloid style journalism. Peace
An irony one might expect the author to also note is that €300,000,000 has been pledged to help rebuild the structure by two French titans of private industry - people who made their money in the free market of ideas. In this, like most other issues of the day, They The Yellow-Vested People hate the wealthy, but they’ll gladly take their money.
6
Just wait until the Mark Zuckerberg-Elon Musk Norte Dame is reopened.
2
@Mike: The wealthy can choose to donate that money because they control most of the money in the world. If they paid more in taxes, the money would have been there in the first place to keep up to date with repairs and renovations, and no government would have to spend decades begging for donations to fix national monuments.
3
Mike if the titans of industry were taxed properly the government would not need to rely on handouts. Let’s not forget for the most part the extreme wealth is a result of political manipulation and exploitation of workers
Paris is the city of my heart. To the French and all of those around the world suffering today from the damage to Notre Dame, please allow me to offer my profound support and sympathy for your loss. I will contribute to the rebuild, and will see her in the City of Light again soon. Vive la France!
26
@GMR Thank you. This is the most appropriate and kindest message I have read on the subject. Thank you.
5
@Liz When an appropriate site is established I will contribute what I can. I have never been to Paris but I mourn for your loss just the same as any French citizen
If it is restored it will be with cheap materials and shoddy work that won't last even half a century. It will probably include coffee shops and high end boutiques. Maybe even a few condos for the mega rich who can afford the full Notre Dame experience.
1
Hellen,
If this had happened in the US, restoration would probably be heavily funded with corporate money, so perhaps your nightmare vision could come true. The French, on the other hand, take their heritage very seriously. Won’t happen.
20
@Hellen This is one of a few of the more cynical comments I have seen on this story, and the falsity of it brings some unexpected good news. In the restoration project that I am sure will happen, not one of your prognostications will hold true, and Notre Dame will once again serve as a beacon of hope.
11
@Hellen You KNOW this how exactly?
Notre Dame is not just a building. It is a cathedral built to glorify God, our creator, with its beauty and atmosphere of reverence. In the book of Exodus, the Israelites were building a temple and those who worked on it were filled with "wisdom, understanding, and knowledge to design artistic works." To see the work of so many throughout the centuries go up in smoke is deeply moving but is also a reminder that we are called by God to even greater works of love, mercy, and compassion.
8
What saddens me more than the fire is that, if the cathedral had simply continued to fall apart slowly, no one other than a few architects and historians would have cared.
5
@Frank O I’m not sure no one would have cared. I’m pretty sure few people would have known.
I am not enamored of the cathedral on religious grounds [I am an atheiset], but as a piece of work demonstrating human endeavor down through the ages, it has been a magnificent testament.
I hope work on it now will be worthy of history.
19
@Frank. Not sure why you would think that. A lot of people are feeling a sense of loss.
3
@Frank O
Everyone around me, of various backgrounds, was saddened by what we saw on the screen.
2
So many thoughtful comments here! thank you New York Times readers.
8
This is sad. To have a meaningful historical site so damaged is sad. However, it is sadder that we are not as upset about the millions of starving children and families in Africa, Yemen, Syria where lives -- not buildings -- have been completely destroyed. Humanities' misaligned priorities again. When will be compassionate to our fellow human beings? When?
Is it not as incredibly difficult to see the image of the skeletal-like child as it is to see the smokey damage of a -- building.
11
@Tao of Jane
I am,not a religious person but actually such monuments are symbols that we can endure. If those walls could talk just imagine the history they would tell.
I have been hearing about the same people suffering in the same countries for decades despite receiving billions to help. The problem is too many people don't want to have a conversation about changing our strategy and some countries changing their cultural beliefs to alleviate some of their problems.
6
@Tao of Jane I do believe people all over the planet — more quietly, of course, than a breaking news story — toil to help our fellow humans.
What is so sad is that an event like this fire is momentarily flaming in the public view, while human desperation smoulders daily.
I do believe, however, that at least as many people care about our fellow humans as care about this magnificent piece of human history.
I know I care more about the people, but this artifact’s destruction saddens me terribly.
3
@Hellen I totally agree with you its nice seeing some sense online for a change. Charities are big business a better world is not good for them!
Contrast Notre-Dame with American treasures such a Mount Vernon and Monticello. Those homes are managed by organizations that take fire prevention very, very seriously.
Both homes are protected by sophisticated systems to automatically detect and put out fires that arise. Mount Vernon is in the process of modernizing their system using the latest fire extinguishing technology.
I wonder why Notre Dame wasn't as well-protected.
3
@Johnny Stark
Many years ago, I took a summer course at the Sorbonne on the architecture of medieval churches. My final exam was to write an essay on "le toit de Notre-Dame." The French word for roof in this context asked me not to consider the roofing material per se, but the aspirational structure of the vaulted cathedral as a symbol for reaching toward heaven. To do so you need to know something about how the medieval builders, in the absence of steel girders and reinforced concrete, were able to build so high and have the construction stay up so long over time. One secret was the flying buttress, another the arched vaults, all made of cut stone. The third solution was a pitched lead roof over timbered rafters, an invention that more often than not, sadly, could succumb to fire if the ignition could make it up there. Or in the case of the catastrophe of yesterday, down there, apparently from a spire under renovation.
Having that campfire-ready structure of scaffolding in place around the spire and nave of the church we see in the before and after photographs also didn't help.
I suspect the morning after review will find a number of contributing causes, and perhaps in the renovation the engineers will consider putting a sprinkler system up there.
A better solution might be steel cross beams, but I'm sure the French are smart enough to think of that. No need for us Americans to chide them for not doing it like US.
6
@Johnny Stark--It is far easier to put sprinklers or other safety features in a smallish mansion that is about 250 years old. Probably several of those homes would fit in and through Notre Dame. It is huge. And 850 years old, not 250. And has giant vaulted ceilings far higher, held up by flying buttresses outside the building--an architectural marvel, far more intricate than a clapboard house that can be retrofitted with fire safety features. Comparing these is ludicrous.
7
@Eva Lockhart
Fire protection for historic structures doesn't employ sprinklers as that would cause way too much water damage.
Instead, such systems use a gas such as Halon or water mist systems. These are less visibly intrusive than sprinklers and don't cause water damage.
In any case, tinder-dry medieval timbers are an obvious fire hazard. Not protecting such a treasure shows a lack of good stewardship on the part of Notre Dame's managers.
This is so sad. Hopefully they can faithfully restore Notre Dame de Paris back to some of its original glory. France has been and is having a very hard time right now. I weep with the French.
11
Yes, it is indeed tragic to see such a monumental and iconic landmark going up in flames.
I wish we could muster the same shattering sense of tragedy and loss when any cultural or religious symbol, landscape or structure is violated, whether by accident or on purpose (see oil drilling on sacred indigenous sites, fire in the Al Aqsa mosque yesterday, pipelines crossing sacred water sources).
7
The testimony to the feat the heights the human spirit is capable of soaring to in wood and masonry up in flames and a cloud of smoke. Rebuild with the same and the result will be the same. Time for new materials and methods to express that. The meaning of life really needs to be more than just the world’s most popular tourist destination, I would like to hope probably because I’ve never been to Paris.
1
I'm so relieved the damage has not been worse. It will no doubt be restored to its former glory, perhaps structurally sounder as well within a few years.
So many European cathedrals have suffered fires and destruction and yet have been restored by their parishioners. The wonderful romanesque cathedral in Mainz, where I lived for a number of years, burned the very night it was consecrated, 1010 years ago. It was rebuilt and still stands today.
Dawn showed Notre Dame still standing, and with that, my depression has given way to hope.
11
The cathedral was and still is an astonishing place of". . .beauty and spirit and symbolism" as Mr. Kimmelman says. I was there many years ago when only a few dozen other visitors were there. I recall awe. And wondering what life was for the people were whose hands and muscles and minds put its beginnings together in the 12th century.
And then I imagined Jesus walking into this 20th century soaring opulence, in his dusty sandals and homely robe. In that moment, the greatness around and above me became an exorbitant deception. Yet it serves so many human hungers, the promised wealth that can be afforded and that already is pouring toward rebuilding, will be well spent in behalf of beauty and spirit. The symbolism is apart, and will be experienced individually, and what comfort and moral sustenance that gives is worth more than breathtaking architecture and its addition of art and material atop the simple teachings of a quiet rebel against the religious hierarchy of his time.
2
@PK. I wonder if the Jesus of the Bible would have cried more for the event of destruction than the act of building in the first place. That’s an interesting question.
1
One of mankind's beautiful structures...remarkable testament to the ingenuity, the creativity of a people who had a simple technology, but a long range vision..
Now there is the urge to rebuild, but a careful study will have to be made of the surviving stone to determine the effect of the intense heat on the structural capacity of that material.
5
@Darchitect
I would never call this simple technology. It seems to me that you might need to rethink this some more, especially but not only as an architect.
1
After the shock of the fire and destruction passes (it will), the focus can shift to restoration.
We live in a time where modern methods and technology can move this process forward quickly and the scale of the project is large enough to allow for innovation to restore the interiors and exteriors. It also appears that there will be adequate budgets to move things along.
What is learned here might be transferrable to other structures throughout the world. There are no shortage of buildings in need of restoration and maintenance. It may encourage other nations look at their resources and invest a bit more to maintain their parts of their material history.
9
Here’s how Victor Hugo saw Notre Dame cathedral, as it protected and surrounded Esmeralda the tragic heroine of “The Hunch Back of Notre Dame.”
“Let us add that the church, that vast church, which surrounded her on every side, which guarded her, which saved her, was itself a sovereign tranquillizer.
The solemn lines of that architecture, the religious attitude of all the objects which surrounded the young girl, the serene and pious thoughts which emanated, so to speak, from all the pores of that stone, acted upon her without her being aware of it.
The edifice had also sounds fraught with such benediction and such majesty, that they soothed this ailing soul.
The monotonous chanting of the celebrants, the responses of the people to the priest, sometimes inarticulate, sometimes thunderous, the harmonious trembling of the painted windows, the organ, bursting forth like a hundred trumpets, the three belfries, humming like hives of huge bees, that whole orchestra on which bounded a gigantic scale, ascending, descending incessantly from the voice of a throng to that of one bell, dulled her memory, her imagination, her grief.
The bells, in particular, lulled her. It was something like a powerful magnetism which those vast instruments shed over her in great waves.”
30
I join in the mourning for the loss of a beautiful and loved building, and pray that wise decisions can be made about rebuilding it. Notre Dame de Paris is the parish church of many Parisiens and the beloved and cherished centre of spiritual life. She rides on Ile de la Cite, breasting the Seine like a great ship, and herself seems to embody the motto of Paris: "Il est agite par les vagues, et ne sombre pas". (She is tossed by the waves, and does not sink.)
But -- may I say that there are other French cathedrals more beautiful and equally beloved? Chartres, for example, was built in the same period and is still intact and without the cruel "modernizations" inflicted on Notre Dame de Paris. It was built in "The Age of Faith", when men and women harnessed themselves to wooden carts in order to haul stones to the stonecarvers of the church to help in the building of an emblem of that faith. Or the wondrous Romanesque cathedral of Vezelay in Burgundy, or the eerily beautiful cathedral of Autun, with its sculptures signed "Gislebertus hoc fecit" -- "Gislebertus made this". This is all we know of Gislebertus, but his work still touches, frightens and amuses us across almost a thousand years.
Let Notre Dame remain cherished for its own singular properties but not because it was the only example of medieval architecture. There are many left, and in seeing them, one can see the beauty and dedication to faith of their original builders.
29
When you visit this magnificent cathedral and I have visited twice and spent many hours, you come away with mixed feelings - melancholy was one of them. The folklore of the Hunchback, An emperor's coronation, Joan of Arc and other historical landmarks. There is some sadness in that building.
10
I watched coverage of the fire on CNN, MSNBC and Fox News. Coverage on one station, I cannot remember which, described how when Notre Dame was built centuries ago, the flying buttresses and walls would have been raised by laborers powered by laborers on the ground moving ropes around stone pulleys. Laborers on ladders would have set in the stained glass windows that would filter the light into the churches interior where congregants would feel, perhaps, awe at some almighty presence, a presence created by men who perhaps died before the work was completed.
I have never visited Notre Dame, but I did have the experience once of watching, from the observation deck of the World Trade Center, dark storm clouds moving in the distance miles up the Hudson. I felt in awe.
I feel sad that Notre Dame burned. I am happy the bell towers stood.
Awe and awfulness are everywhere.
15
It hurts when visible memory is destroyed, but its restoration will become part of who we are as well. In 30 or 50 years tour guides will have to remind people that there was a fire, but it was restored to what it was and what it always was and you cannot tell.
11
What is civilization? I don’t know, but I recognize it when I read it. Thank you Michael Kimmelman.
87
So a symbol and monument of the Catholic Church -- a church that still bans abortion and divorce to this day -- a church whose priests have sexually assaulted countless children over the centuries, burned "heretics" who dared oppose its dogma, sent hundreds of thousands to their deaths in senseless religious wars -- this monument to man's inhumanity to man is being mourned by American "progressives." It's astonishing. Please don't ever again criticize religious types like Mike Pence, who shares many of this church's teachings.
8
@Ed Have you visited? It was an astounding work of art. I think you're missing the positives. Nothing is black and white.
22
@Ed - I was raised Catholic and left the Church over 30 years ago. The cathedral transcends the Catholic religion. It is a masterpiece of architecture. The beauty of it and what it contains should be experienced by everyone.
14
@EdIt's not necessarily the building, or art, or it's religious meaning that people like me "mourn" for, but for the generations upon generations of people who poured their sweat and blood, heart and soul, from their youth to their death, for hundreds of years, to create what they considered beautiful so they could be "closer to 'God' "... That can never be "rebuilt". It's those people, that history, that I think about, and I suspect, most others do too, even if they're not totally aware of it... I think that's why people said they felt a 'punch to the gut' watching the cathedral burn, because at some level, deep within, they felt the connection to those people of the past, and their labor of love... So in actuality, it's not about religious belief, but about the human spirit's desire to ascend beyond the 'human'.
20
A masterpiece, with the gaze of centuries, met with mourning. This is our shared identity: its story, our past, its rebuilding, our future.
4
Be strong, Paris, and know the World is with You.
15
If she is rebuilt please make it a Mosque. We need more symbols of what modern France has evolved into. We need a multicultural, open space where all of France fights homophobia.
2
@Mick F
Notre Dame inspired spirituality, not just Catholic faith.
“Notre-Dame is our history, our literature, part of our psyche, the place of all our great events, our epidemics, our wars, our liberations, the epicentre of our lives,” he said. “We will rebuild… because this is what the French people expect, because it was what our history deserves, because it is our profound destiny.” — President Emmanuel Macron, President of the French Republic
I know some may disagree but this is the kind of statement I had hoped for from President Bush after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans. It never came. What came instead were cries of “let it sink” and “I don’t want to pay” (implication: because you know who lives there).
I see the difference between America and France here as an indication that the American attempt to create a real nation out of its melting pot failed somewhere along the line. America, I think, never was, and never will be, a real nation. It became instead what its inhabitants wanted it to be: a money making proposition held together only by economic consumption. That thought is the source of my deepest unhappiness with America and why I believe it will ultimately disintegrate into a failed state.
13
@Kinsale How much has been sent to New Orleans and the area since Katrina? Why don't YOU GOOGLE that. More than France itself will spend on the Cathedral which will done with private donations. By the way, France is failing as a state look at its deficit and economy and its handling of immigration.
3
For what’s worth, I think that, ultimately, ALL states will fail. We need to restructure our societies better. Already we have megamultinational companies that are at least as powerful as small and not so small states, and think of themselves as quasi-states, complete with a quasi-national identity. The issue of democracy has to be tackled on a global level, all single-state-centered solutions are doomed, as the Brexit process is proving.
If we fail at that, I suspect intraspecies conflict will destroy our species by way of environmental damage.
2
Kinsale. I don t necessarily disagree with your thoughts and personally my heart is with the French people during this difficult time. I look forward to being back in Paris later this year. With that being said you contrast Bush with Marcon, however you fail to mention all of the civil unrest in France can be laid at the feet of Marcon. His attack on working people and marriage to the corporate elites is no different than what Trump is doing here. Perhaps Mr. Marcon has more class about him but the end result is the same.
1
I and all organists call upon the archbishop of Paris to re-dedicate the saved organ of Notre Dame to the firefighters of Paris !!!
14
@Nell. Sound idea.
4
The fire and destruction somehow fits our times, when philistines such as Trump and other right-wing leaders put no value on culture or civilisation. If Trump were president of France, he'd want to raze what's left of Notre Dame and build one of his tasteless hotels.
30
@Maria da Luz Teixeira
interesting point of view and probably correct.
1
@Rain If you recall he said "he loved the recession in 2008" he got to buy a lot of property really cheap. If he were President of France he would likely see the cathedral burning as an opportunity to make some money. If he rebuilt it he would probably rename it Trump Cathedral
@Maria da Luz Teixeira Actually, there have been vandalism attacks on churches in France for the past few years by Mulsim migrants (st. Denis Basilica). Fact. Even if the liberal media does not wish to report it. Maybe you could give some thought to that. But as always, everything becomes about Donald Trump with leftisits. Trump, trump, Trump. Do you realize how ridiculous continuously tying him to everything in the universe sounds?
Notre-Dame burning is symbolic of the divisions burning many civilized countries in this century. The Cathedral will be rebuilt, as President Macron promised last night, but the new heart of Paris won't unify divisions among the French and other civilized countries of the world. Unlike other catastrophes, no one died in the conflagration that riveted France and the world. Sacred relics were saved. Paris is still a magical city and has been since recorded time. The Eiffel Tower is still there, blazoned at night with light. Paris was an open city during Nazi Germany's occupation of France from 1940-44. Paris wasn't bombed to smithereens like most of Europe during WWII. The ever-flowing Seine, the immense and gorgeous spread of Notre Dame on the Ile de la Cite, the gargoyles and stained glass windows, the epitome of artistic creation inspired by religious faith in the centuries till today, live in our memory. The wounds of the fire are great, but Paris is still "La Ville-Lumiere", the 18th and 21st Centuries' City of the Enlightenment. Plus ca change, plus ca reste le meme.
17
If it's any comfort, for once the world is coming together to mourn an event that DID NOT involve a massive loss of life. For that we can be thankful.
29
@Febr2301
Yes, I agree.
5
After I finished my university studies I visited Notre Dame. It was the first time I was viscerally affected by history. I felt I could smell it.
11
Somebody, give me a legitimate site and I will make a substantial donation (for me, that is), for I do not want to live in a world that can't rebuild this perfect example of human (spiritually inspired) wonderment.
I've driven by enough 4 walled tilt up concrete slab Wal-Marts and tacky poorly constructed OSB-based houses to last me for more than a millennia.
Notre Dame must be rebuilt! And I expect the opulent Vatican to feel the same way too. And to do their part as well; and to take care of the victims of all the scandals, too!
Do it for all that is still correct and good in this world.
11
It seems a stretch to conflate the Yellow Vests with Notre Dame. Or to call a massive fire in a 800 year cathedral merely a symbol.
9
The symbolism represented by the Notre-Dame Cathedral in flames and France in social unrest and mob fury is really striking and painful that pits the French past against its future in strange face off.
4
Apocryphally or not, Joe Di Maggio is said to have claimed Marilyn Monroe had the finest backside in the world -- except for Notre Dame.
I'm not the least bit religious, but (naturally) could not help but be awed at having seen Notre Dame in person. An architectural marvel to be sure. This loss is profound.
But we know the cathedral will (once again) be restored. Somehow. One day I will stand before that edifice again.
As my husband says, in Europe, they treasure and maintain their monuments. In America, we abandon entire cities...
15
@D Price What cities have been abandoned?
1
@D Price
As someone living in the EU, I can happily agree with your husband's first statement about us treasuring and maintaining our monuments. The second part is alas only too true, and at times when in the US it staggers me to see this...
4
@Jackson...Look at the new New York City skyline. It is a mess.
2
What are we building today that people will wait in line to see 800+ years from now?
17
@Atruth As if 800 years ago anybody knew the future of Notre Dame? When Jefferson was born, think anybody looked down and said " this man will greatly contribute to making the greatest country in human history."
1
This is more than an emotional jolt and shock. I visited Notre Dame many times during the 1970s and 1980s.
This is very disorientating … an important foundation and symbol of civilization was heavily damaged. This is something that took artisans decades to build.
This is also very disorientating because it shows how vulnerable civilization is. Notre Dame is a living functioning foundation of civilization and values.
The Cathedral will be rebuilt, but this will take decades to rebuild.
44
@Gerry O'Brien It will take time but unless a new Dark Ages descends on the world, civilization will continue. Many things are way older than Notre Dame, one thinks of Egyptian, Greek and Roman buildings that remain. The Pantheon in Rome was built as a temple by Hadrian in 117 AD, and has been in continuous use throughout its history. The Caravan Bridge over the river Meles in Izmir, Turkey. It was built around 850 BC, which makes it more than 2,860 years old—qualifying as the oldest functioning bridge in the world. Likewise, the Church of the Nativity (565 AD, Bethlehem, West Bank) is one of the oldest church buildings in the world—today, it still hosts multiple church services every day.
3
Please confine yourself to your brief: architecture. France is not burning, and the "Yellow Vest" movement has lost much popular support as documented in your own newspaper. It also developed an anti-Semitic fringe as also documented here. KImmelman, what is in turmoil in France is the main Left opposition which will probably let Macron and his upstart party survive.
How does one write a tribute filled with disdain for the centrist party of Macron (and other center-left and center-right European governments) and then almost ignore the central purpose for the building? It is a cathedral. A place of worship and faith.
Some of us have been lucky enough to visit the island on which it sits,explore the church (which I found a bit austere) and also to admire it from a boat in the Seine. Yet while I knew much of the history you mention about the structure, and that history is essential to an appreciation I never dismissed the religious element. That is central to the story, though predictably sidelined here.
8
@Unworthy Servant
If you consider the gothic architecture too "austere", there are far more cathedrals all over Europe in the baroque and rococo style.
To each his/her own.
2
@Unworthy Servant
Agree 100%, the destruction of a priceless center of worship and historical monument has absolutely nothing to do with the US socialist and liberal political agenda.
1
@Sarah Thank you for your observation. Gothic church architecture comes in different forms. I loved visiting King's College Chapel, the Abbey in London and Bath Abbey. They just appealed to me more.
“I remembered once, in Japan, having been to see the Gold Pavilion Temple in Kyoto and being mildly surprised at quite how well it had weathered the passage of time since it was first built in the fourteenth century. I was told it hadn’t weathered well at all, and had in fact been burnt to the ground twice in this century. 'So it isn’t the original building?' I had asked my Japanese guide.
'But yes, of course it is,' he insisted, rather surprised at my question.
'But it’s burnt down?'
'Yes.'
'Twice.'
'Many times.'
'And rebuilt.'
'Of course. It is an important and historic building.'
'With completely new materials.'
'But of course. It was burnt down.'
'So how can it be the same building?'
'It is always the same building.'
I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building. The intention of the original builders is what survives. The wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past, is to fail to see the living building itself.”
-- Douglas Adams
46
I am wondering if the Chinese might have technology that would be helpful here. Also, I hope security and support are being stepped up for historic churches and synagogues world wide, in case the publicity here inspires vandals seeking fame.
5
This saddens me greatly. This beautiful cathedral holds the memory of the past in every timber and stone. Notre-Dame held a rich and living history that is in the fiber of every citizen of France.
I am sorry that the neglect Notre-Dame has suffered is due to the lack of apportions of paper and coin called money. The millions that are offered to restore Notre-Dame are a gestor of love but, restoration will only create a facsimile.
3
@mary Not any more of a facsimile then the continued updating in the past just larger. Was the addition of the Michelangelo's make the Vatican just a facsimile being added after it was built?
@JDSept
no, it does not. I stand corrected. thank you
Surely you understand that Notre Dame's beauty and significance is for the whole globe, not just France. We must all contribute what we can for its rebuilding.
14
@Isabel
Maybe everyone that visits these types of historical sites should contribute $5. toward the renovation and rebuilding and kept in an interest bearing investment so that when diseaster strikes the money is there. Perhaps some of the treasures could be kept at museums where they could be loaned to other cities around the world rather than only at the one site.
3
@Rain
Museums in Europe are currently returning artefacts from other countries that they have had in display for ages. Things belong where they originate; this is part and parcel of the authenticity...
1
"The symbolism was hard to miss."
Really? Symbolism in a random one-off event? Notre Dame is a building. It will be repaired. People will still be flocking to see it in 500 years. Most, if not all, of the truly irreplaceable art, relics and manuscripts were moved out of harm's way.
The works of man are puny and of little consequence when compared to the artistry and majesty of nature.
Want to bemoan the real loss of something of even greater value? Think coral reefs, rain forests, glaciers, and scores of plants and animals driven to the brink of extinction, by climate change too rapid to adapt to. There is no Go Fund Me campaign to restore what has already been lost, let alone what is to come.
Notre Dame will get a new roof and spire, and life will go on. At least for humans; at least for awhile.
22
@alexander hamilton
good points. those that lose their lives in terrorist attacks cannot be replaced and the families that never fully recover from those losses never are fully restored. it's sad so much history lost but more thought needs to go toward preventing these types of disasters and perhaps keeping historical artifacts in safer locations rather than keeping them in a structure that was so fragile/flammable due to the ancient lumber that 3x daily fire checks were necessary. Wasn't there enough beauty and enough historical artifacts that they could have been divided up into a number of churches or museums?
Judging by comments here and elsewhere, it appears there are just two approaches to cultural artifacts. The majority reflect a distinctly postmodern dismissiveness: it's only a building, we have plans & pictures, it can be repaired or rebuilt (if that's what we really want to do). But a few feel an "electrical" connection to such artifacts & find it impossible to explain, let alone justify, their attachment to the postmodernist. I am one of the latter. I don't hold out much hope at communicating my feelings about the loss of the palimpsest that was Notre Dame, but maybe this will help for those that have ears to hear....
In a 1975 essay, "The Preservation of Old Buildings," Wendell Berry wrote:
"The question is whether we are to be tourists or participants in our heritage. I am interested in the question because I believe it to be an eminently practical one: I do not believe that tourists can preserve anything, including themselves, for very long. And one of the tragedies of the modern world is that it has made us tourists of our own destiny. It has taught us to turn to the past for diversion rather than instruction. It has taught us to look into our inheritance for curiosities rather than patterns."
13
In the past twenty years or so, we've witnessed the destruction of a vast amount of culture, art and history, and it's been a devastating loss.
World citizens have shed many tears over the losses of grand buildings, museums, and ancient artifacts and I am heartened to read that Notre Dame will be rebuilt. It's history is evidence of humanity at its finest and its worst.
6
Great heartfelt article that brings some balm to my broken heart as an expatriate Parisian, it is a tragedy but thank god the building was saved, and our dear Lady did not collapse. Every time I go to Paris, quite often actually, I make sure to walk past Notre Dame to enjoy its beauty and exquisite architecture. One Lesson taught here, one should never take anything for granted. The irony here is it seems the fire was caused by the renovation work intended to repair it.
12
This early into the terrible news, I am hearing that repair funding will come from sources throughout the world. Such a step is called unity, oneness, an act of love and caring.
16
It was so much more than a church but because it was a symbol of religious faith and devotion, its destruction carries so much more than just the loss of an ancient building. I am filled with inarticulate sadness looking at the final photo in this report, the one where evening is coming over the rooftops of Paris and the bright tower of Eiffel glows but dimly in the distance. The photo encapsulates and expands this deep sadness.
So much life has been lived in Paris, so many discoveries of human potential for good and evil, for artistic expression, for writing, for love and revolutionary zeal, have found their home, their point of blossoming, in that marvelous city. Its beating heart has been wounded in many other ways...the invasion of characterless chainstores along the famed Champs Elysees, the high costs of living that have driven writers and artists out of the city and, of course, the bloody terrorist attacks...but this burning is a too rich symbol of radical disruption. Paris is wounded but of course it will endure. One can hope it will ever change and, somehow, ever be the same.
12
The Lady will stand again. She's done it before and will do it again.
This is an icon - not just of religion, but history and art. Much literature is tied to her facade. The Notre-Dame is considered to be the classic prototype for Gothic architecture, in much the same way as the Hagia Sophia is the classic prototype for Orthodox and Romanesque architecture. The Lady's stained glass windows are considered to be ultimate example of that medieval art form. She is easily in the top 5 buildings photographed (inside and outside) in history.
It took a century initially to build her, and more yet to 'modify' her. She's 850 years old. She will stand once more. So what if it takes 25 years to rebuild? She'll be there to mystify millions more visitors in wonderment, awe, and delight for centuries more.
Here in the US - how many realize the White House and Capital Building were burned to their stone exteriors? How many who visit Chicago and amaze in its architecture remember that 1/3 of the city burned to the ground? How many visit San Francisco today and remember that only 115 years ago, the entire city was a smoking ruin? That which is expressed through the spirit of humanity never dies.
The Lady will stand again.
40
As an architect I feel as if a family member has been grievously injured.
As a global citizen, the symbolism of this moment is inescapable, and makes me fear for Western Civilization as we know it.
As a professional, I know Notre Dame can be rebuilt, but the spirit embodied in what’s lost can never be reclaimed.
23
Truly a tragedy. Just one note; I keep hearing the organ was spared. Perhaps the console where the organist plays was spared, perhaps the metal pipe facade was spared. However, the real organ is the hidden instrument you don't see, the pipes made of wood and fairly thin metal combined with a complex bellows system providing the forced air to the pipes. The heat from the fire will have damaged most of them and thus made the organ a complete loss. It will have to be entirely rebuilt. The further tragedy is the organ was recently restored. A lesson in don't beleive everything you read, or hear.
13
@Bill
Asa young woman living in England I used to finagle all my holiday entitlements in order to get enough time off at Easter to visit Paris
One of my most enduring memories is a visit to Notre Dame, looking at one of the the Rose windows and simultaneously listening to the organist playing Bach. Each a perfect complement to the other.
With sorrow for the present loss, and in hope that they can restore it all so that others can share such experiences
The collapsed spire was wood covered in LEAD metal...that's a LOT of lead pollution added to the air in Paris...
3
Any layman interested in the great feats accomplished by builders and cities in order to invent Europe's gothic cathedrals should read the novel "Pillars of the Earth," a former bestseller by Ken Follett. It's compelling fiction that tells the very real story of how these spiritual homes were built -- in medieval times -- to increasingly precipitous heights to reach God and the heavens. There was great competition between builders and the dedication of entire towns over centuries in many cases.
Fires and tumbling cathedrals play a major role in Pillars. That they're still living hearts of Christianity says a lot about the human will to rebuild in the face of frequent disaster.
18
Odd...Hundreds of words on yellow vests, social unrest, and unrelated things, but not one regarding the faith that built this magnificent edifice.
15
How many truly iconic places or things can you think of, like Notre Dame, that are almost instantly recognizable by almost anyone? The pyramids? The Eiffel Tower? Maybe the Statue of Liberty? Stonehenge? Not many in this category come to mind. What a tragedy. But what hope so soon that in less than 24 hours, more than €400 have been promised for its restoration.
8
President Macron stated that Notre-Dame would be rebuild, as will the spirit, the souls and the hearts of all France.
This fired was indeed devastating, but so much worse and lost of life could have occurred. I am grateful and thankful that no one died, only three injuries were reported of two firemen and one police officer, and that most of this cathedral was spared.
5
Maybe the rebuild will engender a rebuild of the human community. We can only hope.
15
It is hard not to dwell on the symbolism of the burning of such an iconic, historic, and sacred landmark. And more so when the destruction happens during the holiest week of the Catholic liturgy: a dark time before the light of Easter. Each of us thinking of the symbolism will find a different message in such an event.
As with every catastrophe the destruction will be remembered. But the nature and effort of rebuilding will define the era. Let us hope that the rebuilding brings out good energy and spirit.
20
@Rita Actually during Holy Week means something. As Catholics celebrate Christ rising from the dead so can we celebrate this great Cathedral on its up coming rise from the ashes. Catholicism is based on an outlook of optimism and this should be looked at as such. We shall survive.
Odd as it may seem - there's the distinct possibility that rebuilding Notre-Dame will be a unifying undertaking for all of France. Ancient crafts and skills in stone, wood, glass and cloth will have to be re-learned - a broader understanding of human ingenuity and creativity from a time long ago will be the talk of the Parisienne Salons - the artistic impact on modern France (and probably the rest of the world) will not be insignificant. It's doubtful the reconstruction will include pre-fabricated framing - or pouring of concrete where slate and quarrystone flooring was damaged. And then there will be the grand opening - fireworks and champagne after prayers and communion. Who knows, maybe the Pope will celebrate the first mass.
23
@Tom--The process of rebuilding will be focused on learning, not so much relearning. The structure has been studied for decades. The question is one of how can modern technology be applied to restore the building--stone, wood, glass and cloth.
5
Many of us around the world watched in disbelief yesterday as tragedy unfolded before our eyes. The iconic Notre-Dame de Paris was on fire. As the raging inferno ripped through 800 years of art, architecture, and history, we were horrified, heartbroken, and absolutely stunned. For hours, we waited with bated breath hoping that the iconic Lady of Paris would be ok as the brave firefighters struggled to get the blaze under control. While she isn't completely out of the woods yet, it appears that she has been saved from complete destruction, with the stonework largely surviving thus far. It also appears
My heart goes out to the people of Paris this morning. I have been lucky enough to travel to Paris often over the last number of years. During each of those trips, I have endeavored to pay my respects to Our Lady, spending significant time inside on at least three occasions. Here is hoping her recovery and rebuilding will render her stronger than ever so she may last for another 800 years providing inspiration for generations to come.
14
If the photograph taken by Thomas Samson/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images isn't Pulitzer worthy, I don't know what is.
I can practically feel the heat from that inferno.
Thank you NYT for these captivating photos and the many illuminating articles. You create such a compelling atmosphere, I feel as if I am standing on the street, watching this horrific event unfold in person.
18
Look at the history of any great center of civilization and one finds its a process of building, reconstruction, demolition, and rebuilding.
Many centuries-old great buildings have been rebuilt several times due to renovation or reconstruction after a disaster. The facade and plan of many iconic historic buildings have been extensively modified or today do not resemble their original design.
This is true of the Hotel de Ville (Paris City Hall) across from the cathedral and Buckingham Palace in London. The Palace of Westminster (Parliament) burned down in the 19th Century and was reconstructed in a new form, the House of Commons was destroyed in WWII from fire bombing.
My bet is a century from now Notre-Dame having rose from the ashes will be seen as great as ever -- even with bittersweet memory of what was lost yesterday. Long may she remain a witness and stage of history.
Vive la France!
15
A lot of people around the globe will come to see Notre Dame who were not planning to, I believe, because of the devastating images and their own, very human curiosity. And most will be moved to donate significant amounts to its reconstruction.
The original building of this landmark Gothic cathedral was a testament to the will of medieval masses. It will now become witness to mass un-will - an unwillingness to let this living symbol of human civilization lie fallow.
In a time when so many Westerners are pushing for the destruction of civil society, Notre Dame will now become a symbol of the push back by so many more.
11
What has happened to Notre-Dame can only be compared with the defeat of France in WWII - or even worse: It's a tragedy of tragedies, it's a murder of at least part of identity of Western civilization. Failure to protect such a treasure, which passed practically unscathed down in time through 900 years of epidemics, civil wars, world wars, occupations and revolutions, is a crime. And, alas, it's an omen.
4
I take care of an historic property, and fire is the nightmare scenario those of us who steward such places have always in the backs of our minds. So I can only imagine the anguish of those whose care for Notre Dame, indeed those who've made that place their lives. They can be fortunate that the whole structure did not fail in a cascade of structural collapses, which was a fearsome possibility. But the blessing in disguise may be that the roof can now be rebuilt safer and more fire resistant than before, so that the cathedral can have a new chapeau to protect it for another 800 years!
15
The United States might consider donating some or all of the oak timber that will be needed. After all, they gave us our Statue of Liberty. Many of our citizens that own timberland might be glad to help with this.
36
Nice sentiment in support of our fellow Christians and Democracy. This is the type of thought a real president would tweet. I believe you have a great idea.
8
@RjW The original timbers were 3-400 years old. 13,000 of them. Where are you going to find that in the US except on public lands? Well, Donald Trump would probably happily donate all the redwoods in Muir Woods if he thought there was gas or oil underneath.
1
Merci beaucoup for these words and these images. There is sadness in the destruction, but beauty and hope, as well.
7
I've never had the opportunity to go to France, but I was lucky enough in high school spend a week in England. My favorite part of the trip was touring the ancient cathedrals. The beauty of these buildings was breathtaking. And I could feel the history flowing through me.
It made me realize how small and insignificant I am in human history, where billions had lived, loved and died long before I was born, and countless billions will live, love and die long after I'm gone and forgotten.
Standing within the walls of these magnificent structures made the problems of my daily life just melt away. Humanity had faced tragedy and strife beyond my comprehension and yet we're still here, living, connecting with others, trying to make the world a better place for us all. For a moment, I felt at one with all of history. It was a humbling experience.
To the French, I have never met you. But at this moment, you are all very dear and close to my heart. Much love from Florida.
70
@Patty O
Beautifully stated.
13
It seems as though the attic and roof burned completely, and falling timbers punched through the stone vaults of the inner ceiling. These structures are actually quite thin—like eggshells—another marvel of the construction technique. What is fortunate is that there was not a cascade of structural failures, which would have made this far more catastrophic. Of paramount importance now will be nimbly and swiftly shoring everything up so that time can be bought until the very, very complex restoration plans can be devised.
14
I believe that anyone who has ever visited this magnificent structure, including myself, felt their hearts break a little looking at photos of this fire.
46
Oh, the melodrama. Number 1: Nobody died. Number 2: It will be rebuilt. Paris is so much more than one building, albeit an ancient symbol of repression and beauty.
12
It isn’t melodramatic to grieve the loss of priceless art that can never be replaced, even when the cathedral is rebuilt.
38
@Coco
Calling the city of Paris an ancient symbol of repression is a melodrama par excellence and a typical cynical American one.
As to being a symbol of repression, the very repression of "imported" forced labour from Africa on which America built its riches is still alive on these shores.
8
@Coco
I have to wonder if you have been to Paris and actually experienced the size and the beauty of this building. It seems to anchor the entire city to the earth while at the same time reaching to the sky.
I have seen many of our wonderful monuments, the Lincoln Memorial comes to mind, but they are nothing like Notre Dame.
4
It must be part of God's Plan that stone does not burn. Let us rebuild this sacred site to be a temple for the glorification of modern fire-suppression technology. Billions of euros are available, which otherwise might have been squandered on the poor and needy. My heart is with the tourist classes of the world, whose poses at this site coursed through Facebook like sheets of rain from the sky.
7
Nancy Sinatra was reported saying ' It's like watching someone you love die.' Notre Dame was part of our human fabric, a symbol of religion, art, culture, hope, civilization itself. Many of its beauties were created by techniques long lost and men long dead. I can only hope it can be given the kind of reverent restoration it deserves. I'm a Christian, but I would feel the same way about the destruction of the Taj Mahal, the Hagia Sophia, or the Kinkaku-ji among many other treasures. They are symbols of human aspirations & love of beauty. We all should treasure them. They represent what we can be.
65
My wife is a Francophile, and as such she has had me visit Paris many times. One of my greatest thrills, especially as someone who really isn’t a big fan of heights, was to take the stairs up from the left side of the cathedral that led up to the bell towers and the roof.
To see the city from that vantage point is one I will never forget. No realize how lucky I was to have that experience. I hope that it can be restored to its former glory. It was literally a work of art unto itself.
32
In an increasingly chaotic world, many have drifted away from church, or now are of generations never connected with church.
Agnostic, atheist, but there in reserve, just in case it is needed, is a sense that God/Father and Mary/Mother still live inside that massive building, and someday, if things get bad enough, if the world and our lives really spin out of control, they are still inside waiting.
Until it burns and suddenly we realize there may not be sanctuary anywhere
People, wake up. God isn’t inside an ornate building waiting with a box of spiritual bandaids for when we crash
He/she is right here among us, expecting us to learn ways not to crash, not to destroy the earth, not to destroy each other, not to succumb to greed and inhumanity. He/she isn’t inside the burning walls, he is here expecting us to do the right thing, today
35
Yet another thoughtful and intellectually informative article from Michael Kimmelmann. Is it right to think that the building of Notre Dame was itself a European project with craftsmen convening from all over the continent to build this monument to a shared belief?
8
“He therefore turned to mankind only with regret. His cathedral was enough for him. It was peopled with marble figures of kings, saints and bishops who at least did not laugh in his face and looked at him with only tranquillity and benevolence. The other statues, those of monsters and demons, had no hatred for him – he resembled them too closely for that. It was rather the rest of mankind that they jeered at. The saints were his friends and blessed him; the monsters were his friends and kept watch over him. He would sometimes spend whole hours crouched before one of the statues in solitary conversation with it. If anyone came upon him then he would run away like a lover surprised during a serenade.”
— Victor Hugo, The Hunchback of Notre-Dame
60
As a french, i'm not gifted for foreign langage, so please apologize for my mistakes ;)
I just wanted to have a look to "The New Times" to see what you tell in the USA about the fire of Notre Dame...
I'm really affected by your pleasant comments ! Thanks for that!
I realize that part of our history is also yours!
361
@Matthew Merci, Matthew. Our hearts are with you. Vive la France!
47
@Matthew
I am a European living in the US. I can assure you the Notre Dame is deeply imbedded into the heart of all of Europe and that this fire deeply touched people in the US. Today everyone at work in NYC who I spoke to is aware of what happened and feels a deep wound.
26
@Matthew - A lot of us really love you guys, your country, your food, your history and especially your spirit. Hugs from across the pond.
28
It is a mystical place for Catholics. Lighting a candle and praying there was an experience like few others.
11
@AACNY
"a mystical place for Catholics"? -- if there are any numbers available, how many tourists per year, and how many "faithful"?
1
@Fran AACNY isn’t saying that only Catholics visit or can appreciate the cathedral’s beauty, but that Catholics experience Notre Dame in a significantly different way.
1
"Rise like a phoenix from the ashes"
A phrase from thousands of years ago. It still applies. Notre Dame will rise again.
"Vive La France"
33
Notre Dame survived French Revolution, two world war and many upheavals. What a shame.
11
@Shim
Some also say (or used to say -- they are probably dead now) that it survived Viollet-le-duc's restoration, in the 19th century. (He is the one who added the spire and, I think, also the gargoyles.)
Let's wait and see if experts, historians and other know-it-alls now fight over whether or not the cathedral should have a spire.
3
@Fran No, Violet le Duc's restoration is still criticized by many alive. The spire he added functioned as a chimney to the updraft of the fire's spread.
2
I'm an atheist who's never been to Paris and I cried when I saw the headlines.
40
@Peter Aretin
Stop crying and pack your bags: Europe is full of old churches and cathedrals, many of them in smaller towns where hotels are less expensive than in Paris.
4
@Peter Aretin
Fire in Paris, is painful to hear about.....
As a New Yorker who has made Paris home for some 25 years, I again felt a strange and profound loss as I stood near the Hôtel de Ville and watched flames claw the sky. My history was wrapped up in the iconic Twin Towers – and I watched them collapse and fall, remembering as they did how they were a kind of North Star for me while walking about in New York. Notre Dame was the same, what the French would call … "point de repère."
Civilization consists of so many different things; it's not just a building or a church, but every individual's consciousness of it. It shifts in time, gets covered up with sand, disappears in fires and floods and also blasts off into space. It's music and paper and sometimes stone but more often than not it's you and me talking about it, about us, about the when and what of our lives.
My father helped free France in 1944. He was just a kid at 22 when he and his platoon arrived in Paris for a celebratory drink and look about that summer of liberation. There are old black and white photographs of him and his buddies and Notre Dame and Paris somewhere. And when he was in Paris decades later and we looked up at this Gothic wonder he said : "Well, will you look at that."
So many things happening at once...
102
An interesting article that gives perspective to a powerful structure that has breathed the life of its community over centuries, changing with it but also reminding of older times. It will adapt once again as it breathes away the ashes and smoke.
People must recognize that it can be hard to find money to preserve places like Notre Dame because private industry can’t make a buck from it and government has to pay its money to those whose votes the politicians are trying to buy.
Maybe United Airlines can buy naming rights from the overseers of Notre Dame. It recently bought (from USC) naming rights to the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, which had been dedicated to the memory of those who lost their lives in World War I. Nothing is sacred.
4
Private industry, government, all made up of private citizens. That is, shadowy figures arent to blame, but rather people who are free to donate but dont. Rather than donating themselves, people like to blame others for not doing so.
3
We weep with the French people, as you wept with us as our twin towers fell on 9/11.
40
@Carol
Real people died when the twin towers fell; two were injured when Notre-Dame burned.
Let's remember the difference.
2
@Fran
“Real” people? As opposed to what? “Fake” people? I feel confident that Carol has not forgotten the still incomprehensible losses of 9/11. A genuine message of condolence, solidarity, and support should be embraced not denigrated.
5
I never visited the cathedral and probably never will. But these beautiful, "old" black and white photos juxtaposed with the color photos of the terrible fire are so sad. What a tragedy.
And what a shame and embarrassment that The President of the United States cannot express a simple message of sympathy to the people of France and the world without displaying his profound ignorance and lack of respect.
77
Of course, this is a painful event.
But honestly, their hypocrisy about religion is stunning. France’s aggressive secularism, which is exhibited every day through the oppression of Muslims and the disdain for Christians, stands in stark contrast to its nostalgic obsession with its empty, state financed cathedrals and churches.
These vast spaces, of which there are hundreds in Paris alone, stand as an awkward testament to the dual realities of France: belief in God is foolish, anti intellectual and must be stamped out, but no expense can be spared to maintain the spaces where the worship of God has sustained generations.
While I understand how a building like Notre Dame can be seen through a historical lens rather than a religious one, it still smacks of a shallow and rigid view of religion in public life.
10
I read that there have been, on an almost daily basis, various bits of vandalism at Catholic churches across France. In the context of your comment, it would be interesting to learn more about the situation.
4
@Cousy
Notre Dame was hardly an empty cathedral. The pews were filled during the masses they held every single day, not just on Sunday.
3
@Sarah
...with tourists.
2
As usual a newspaper overreacts to the significance of an event to sell papers. This was an accidental fire. That’s the meaning. Real life is not a poem, novel or movie. The director did not put the flames in the scene to symbolize anything. This is not a sequel to Gone With The Wind. This was an accident that burned parts of an religious and historical treasure. It will be rebuilt to the point that visitors will have to be told what is new and what is original. Yesterday has nothing to do with governmental policies in 2019. The building was built long before Columbus.
Stop being a prisoner of the moment. Use the mind to reason. Just as Picasso’s Guernica didn’t stop WWII from occurring, this accidental fire is not going to determine the future of Paris, France or Europe.
We all were told that 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam. If that is true, than an accidental fire has nothing to do with anything outside of its impact on tourism and religious services.Nobody is going to leave or join the Catholic faith because of yesterday’s event. It was an accidental fire. There will be fires in the future that damage or destroy historical buildings and works of art. Guaranteed.
10
@Shamrock
Reason without feeling is just a void. This from one who was a Data Scientist for forty years and just began to understand that others are vested in explanations and actions outside of reason.
You’ll have a difficult journey through life is you always try to rationalize the love for someone or something.
2
@TJC
This fire doesn’t symbolize anything. It was not created intentionally. The fire is different than the building. I love the building as much as anyone. My parents took me there when I was 8. I’ve been back 5 times. Inspiring every time. I’m now 58. The fire had nothing to do with love. That was my point. It didn’t have to do with anything except that fire is a part of our world just as it was when a school fire killed 93 children and 3 nuns in Chicago in 1958. That fire didn’t symbolize anything either.
Yes, people can make up symbolism in anything. But it’s just made up. Not everything in life is a message. Unless you want it to be.
1
Notre Dame was one of the most beautiful, serene and graceful monuments (architectural wonders) on earth.
But to rebuild it is down-right foolhardy.
And to spend the money on doing that, in fact, goes against the demand of the YellowVests.
Do we continue to act like we have no constraints on our national wealth? That budgets are unlimited? That we don’t have to make choices?
Or we begin to realize that we have decide how we prioritize our precious national “dollars”/“euros”?
Do we chose feeding children, education, health care, reducing our carbon footprint, caring for our elderly, pensions, solving the troubles with large swathes if French society that have never been integrated into the main stream, or the youth unemployment crisis?
Or do we chose to instead spend those resources on a stone building of the past?
A true leader — which Macron is not — would confront his people with the stark realities of the huge hurdles in front of them and tell them the truth: they cannot have it all.
Mourn the past. But invest to build to the future so that France and the French people and the Earth truly excel for the coming centuries.
3
@JoeD
I believe several French multi-millionaires have already pledged 400 million euros to restore the cathedral.
And the truth is: Yes, "they" can have it all -- or at least all that really means something.
7
France has far larger problems to weep over than this tragedy.
8
Paris is burning. The whole world mourns.
8
Yhe City of New York requires that we maintain a sprinkler system in our humble "brownstone".
Apparently' not so for Paris and Notre Dame Cathedral.
1
Woke up today sad but hopeful.
Paris for me as many others all over the world is the most beautiful city in the world.
Paris is unimaginable without
Notre Dame.
Love land respect to the firefighters who saved her and to all that treasure her in Paris, France and the world.
It is a heart wrenching loss but still part of her is standing this morning and that gives me hope.
It will be the first place that I go when I return to Paris.
11
Here are some of my predictions about what to expect next:
Dan Brown will write the Conspiracy Novel. Thomas Harris will write the Big Government novel. Netflix will make a ten-part docu-drama. Rem Koolhaus will design a new roof with skylights but aluminum siding will not be used.
3
@CE
"The vultures fighting over Notre-Dame's corpse." This is the title; you write the book.
Unfortunately there was no fire prevention systems in place. a real shame to the people of Paris. But life goes on. Instead of spending all this money on social programs the government of France should upgrade all of it fire prevention systems. Sprinklers and the whole works.
3
@NVFisherman
What you are saying is that old monuments are worth more than people's lives. Shame!
1
A friend in Paris writes that word has been received that the 'Caretaker' of Notre Dame returns from America to the Cathedral. Fair stands the Wind for France, and joining many others in civilized nations across the border, in sending belief and caring to the Nation of France that it will prevail in this moment in time. Nous sommes a vous in heart and spirit with wishes for a peaceful day.
3
The photo of the gargoyles caught my eye.
It is almost as though they are weeping at what has become of Chrisianity in France, how the Christian emblems are going up in smoke and flames.
13
On one of my many trips to Paris I went into Notre Dame since there was a lovely organ concert going on. And a mass, too. I am truly sorry that this cathedral had a fire. I have played also (no, I'm not a guitarist or a violinist) at the local church and I went to a Midnight Mass where at the end all the people lit real candles in their pews and held them aloft. I was aghast and afraid. The church is hundreds of years old and it has one of Revere's bells in it and the church is COMPLETELY made of wood, etc. Lit candles? Asking for a fire no matter how sacred or its being God's house...
1
Perhaps a metaphor for the current state of the Catholic Church.
5
Or perhaps there's nothing symbolic about it, just an unfortunate construction accident. Maybe as modern humans we can free ourselves from the superstitions of the dark ages.
12
Whatever the French are weeping for--it's not God, or the destruction of one of His temples. I suspect they weep for history, or nostalgia, or for architecture. Belief in God has been replaced by belief in Socialism.
4
@Jesse The Conservative
Jesus, it would seem, was a socialist. At least a humanist. Which is more than I can I say for the so-called conservatives who abuse Christianity for their own ends.
Notre Flame, the Flame in our Souls, is burning when we build, when we sing, when we create, perceive, or share beauty, kindness, reconciliation, coming together.
When we grieve, we regroup around the warming fire of our hearts.
If a city has come to symbolize light, a miserable shooting or fire can't do more than reaffirm and reignite that truth.
We are fire. We're about to burn an entire planet down by the careless ways we burn for joy. Our paradise of innocent singing and dancing and shared joy rides became an overpopulation explosion to serve the madman appetite of a primitive God concept birthing primitive, divisive and destructive approaches to life, and became motorized by noisy, highly pollutive combustion engines, heated by toxic coal. Today we burn the place for get-rich-quick schemes. But we can quit the irrational exuberance, find our humility back, of which the simple, historical Notre Dame to which a good portion of our hubris is dedicated is a symbol.
Let's start toppling the current 7 to 6 majority in the Democratic Party platform that still wants to cement all the ways big corporations are currently profiting off burning the place down at full, unbraked (and unraked...) speed. That's not how you Paris Accord.
Even a measure that federal agencies weigh the climate impact of their decisions was voted down there. Notre Flame de corporate profits gotta be matched with justice and reason, or it's treason to our future.
We can be on fire for a Green New Dame!
6
Hear, hear. Let’s cherish, protect, and preserve our greatest treasure — Notre Earth.
Combat climate change now!
7
@Zareen
Here are on full display our tears over the destruction of a majestic church, but where are our tears over the majestic, life sustaining rainforests burnt to scorched earth, our collapsing oceans, our dying honey bees and kindred ecological treasures?
We're basically all Saint Dénis (whose statue adorns the cathedral) today, giving sermons rendered useless since our head that's giving these has already been chopped off from its life-giving foundation, by ourselves...
When Notre Dame was built, we were already busy logging all the original forests in Europe. There were people aware back then already that the gentry was involving itself in shameless, disconnected hubris burning the place down for their lavish parties and debauchery. Today we accelerated and outsourced this type of destruction to an industrialized delirium of destruction by our careless palm oil and plastic etc. consumption with abandon. Even as the 99% has come to struggle in the West, we all outmatch the medieval gentry in the extent to which we cause havoc with our consumerist choices: say hello to some dawning awareness on who you really are.
It's not the first fire at Notre Dame. The last Templar Grand Master Jacques de Molay was executed for heresy in front of it by slow burning at the stake 700 years and 66 moons ago and he did not fail to cast a passionate curse. The curse came true, as we still got disinformation warfare, the weaponization of cynical profit greed, and hate, burning us alive.
1
To me the golden cross shining in the ashes and the rubble is an enduring symbol of the power of Christianity.
6
Hard to imagine this is all coincidence. The message is clear. Remember, the servants control the castle. And they are not happy, in fact they are extremely angry at the hubris of the leaders. Macron should resign before more is lost. His words mean nothing at this point. No confidence is a understatement.
1
It would be horrible to suggest the cathedral was burned in order to make a political point.
1
@rich williams -- I don't understand your comment. If not coincidence, then what? Arson? An act of God?
Riding into Paris today on the train, reading this article and observing what I see, I wrote this:
A city of pairs
And duals and things
Of money and power
And attached strings
There’s two versions of Paris
I see when I ride into town
The wealth and abundance
That flourishes now
And the painful outskirts
Of not knowing how
To work their way into
The game that’s played well
By men in suit jackets
White skin and black trim
And everyone else
Cloth wearing thin
Desperation and anger
Tiredness and fatigue
The game stacked against them
Waiting to win
The wait will be long
And the days will be hard
And Notre Dame burns
Here in your yard.
12
At times of disaster like this it is important also to look at the good amongst all the devastation and I see that NBC is reporting the organ at Notre Dame Cathedral (the largest organ in France) was not damaged. This is excellent news as it is a very historical instrument, part of it was damaged in the French Revolution and there are still cuts on the wood in the organ loft from where revolutionaries chiseled off the fleur-de-lis symbol of the monarchy! All part of the history of this great cathedral. I think massive congratulations to the firefighters who saved much in the cathedral is due (Trump's advice of dumping water from planes would have caused untold damage).
9
A moment of praise for the heroic firefighters who limited the damage.
Thank you.
33
The City of Paris is so dear to my heart! This cathedral is a monument to man’s devotion to God, and a testament to the beauty in our souls. I hope the Cathedral of Notre Dame is quickly restored. Please let me know how I might contribute to effort to rebuild. This church belongs to us all!
2
We have Notre-Dame in Paris. We have Chartres, Rouen, Reims. We have the cathedral in Cologne. We have St. Stephens in Vienna, the cathedral in Strasburg with its unique Fifteenth-Century clock. We have Burgos and many other magnificent Gothic buildings all over Spain. We have the Grande Place in Brussels, an architectural warning from the Flemish burghers to Emperor Charles V that he might not be as powerful as he thought. We have all of this in Europe, and there is nothing like this anywhere else. These are elements of our specific European identity. We will not be torn apart, not by Russian oligarchs, not by the Islamic State, not by Brexiters, not by the likes of Steven Bannon. Europe has been unravelling, to quote Time Magazine; but it has been unravelling due mainly to neglect, whether benign or malign. But it is ever so: the moment you stop building, things start to fall apart. It's time to start building again; and a vast, concerted European effort to rebuild Notre-Dame may be the symbol we need to maintain our social-democratic post-war Europe and make it grow, not ashamed of itself but proud of its promise as well as of its past; the time may have come to rebuild our Europe as the most civilized, the most democratic, the most progressive, the most law-abiding, the most equal and humane place the world has ever known or is likely to know in the foreseeable future.
23
@J L S F
Wow. Just wow.
I assure you that 50% or more of the British people will fight tooth and nail to remain part of the European vision you demonstrate.
We haven't left yet. God willing we'll still be part of this Europe in the future.
3
The BBC and Bloomberg news live coverage of Notre Dame was difficult to watch. The symbolism of this was evident in seeing Parisians gathering to watching the structure burn. France has been undergoing it's own crash and burn and is in a low point of the cycle in it's history and Notre Dame seems to reinforce the notion that France has yet to figure out how to climb out of it's misery. Notre Dame will be rebuilt and reborn stronger than ever with a new modern story to tell. How much of it that remains to be incorporated into the new remains to be seen. I suspect France may now have a rallying cry to embrace to break out and continuing creating a wonderful and magnificent place in society.
5
Let this be a reminder to us, who spend our days in buildings of steel and glass, looking at plastic machines, that the old stones still have power and beauty, though their meaning has changed. That we need them just as we need our ancestors, to speak to us from the past. That we must learn their lessons, and in our own voice guide our children. And that if we do not, the sacred trust will be consumed, but has not yet disappeared.
171
Beautifully put Joseph. Thank you for your insight.
4
Its sad , i maybe 25000 miles away. But that call came awhile ago. The building could of been saved. Only 1 ladder was up then a while after a second. This shows a pure lack of physical fire fighting equipment readily available. This is the year 2019. The very best equipment should of been readily available after all this is Paris France. Not the see side. This tragic event can be seen as a early warning to save similar future situations.
S.R.
It’s a symbol of not just a decaying France, but a decaying West as well, I think. The burning is a symbol of the neglect wrought by the greed that’s consuming the West. It’s symbolic of how the West seems to be riding the coattails of past Western accomplishment and success, while current generations neglect and forget what it really took to build the West. The present is all about greed and me and me and me, and more and more and more for the “hard” workers who really don’t produce anything, except move around money, and less for those “lazy” workers, and no taxes. Who cares about the roads, the bridges, the art, the architecture etc, let them burn. This is the symptom of the decay, it’s the same decay the yellow jackets complain about, the same decay everybody seems to complain about, but some particularly provide for with pretentious answers, especially the demagogues of the right wing. They’ve burnt up the West with their greed, if they continue, little will be left. It’s the same greed, the same flames, that will allow a plane to be produced and certified as ready by the very same people producing it, the same greed building the bridges that collapse in Italy. They provide cheap hate against the weaker in society as the solution instead, as they take, take, and take more, and reap the West ever apart.
219
@Frea--Wow. I agree the fire is sad, but you're really interjecting a lot of symbols into it. Sometimes a fire is just a fire.
24
@Ms. Pea You obviously never personally experienced a fire or other event that destroyed something you hold dear, not for the monetary value but for their meaning to us whether it is family photographs or the roof that shelters us from the elements. A fire is never just a fire or a bridge collapse just something that fell down. They also represent what our society or we ourselves were and have become.
25
@Frea
Brilliant! Well said. This is exactly the scenario everywhere in the west. Societies are so inward thinking, they are imploding slowly but surely. I guess, for every up, there has to be a down and we are all sliding down the hill with no bottom in sight.
13
Paris is sad the day after Notre-Dame's 19thC spire collapsed and 2/3's of it's roof was destroyed in the fire. It has already undergone centuries of change and renewal as a "solid" monument to Western Civilisation. It will be re-imagined with the help of Macron and people like Francois-Henri Pinault who has already pledged 100 million to the rebuilding. The version we knew up until yesterday was the (controversial) 19thC gothic revival of Viollet-le-Duc after Louis XIV stripped much of the earlier gothic decoration from the structure in the 18thC and the Revolution further ransacked it.
The 'Gilets Jaunes' have legitimate grievances. "Frayed social net"? Of course it could be better, but France already has some of the best healthcare, education and quality of life support in the world for all of it's citizens. Unlike the US, the right does not want to do away with it...it wants more for less (taxes). Macron wants to make it sustainable. Unfortunately the yellow vest movement has been taken over by extremists on both sides, including anarchists who destroy anything that represents the elite or wealth. It's easy to destroy things, organisations, and allegiances. It's another thing to replace it with something better.
Notre-Dame has exisited through 850 years of history and has been devastated in a day. Most people feel the sadness today and are reflective.
What do we want from our governments and fellow citizens?
8
@Rob
Make that Louis XVI in the 18thC...
1
Hopefully at least some of our many billionaires join in donating to the fund to help renovate the cathedral.
Heartbreaking to watch.
4
Notre- Dame is an architectural treasure/icon of the world. Many have toured and worshiped at this Cathedral for decades. It was a symbol of Paris and those creative artists/craftspeople who labored over it to make it beautiful and truly unique. We grieve with the French for this devastating event and are thankful no one was hurt during this catastrophe.
4
@Jan You're right --- except for the past tense! Notre Dame is still a symbol of Paris and, like the city, will endure. Fluctuat nec mergitur -- she is rocked, but does not sink.
5
As I watched the reports yesterday the reporters and anchors referred to the loss and meaning to Catholics and the French. I am neither, and as the tragedy unfolded and the recognition of the loss enveloped me, I felt that far too confining a description of the calamity. Notre-Dame, like other great monuments is the result of inspired human creation and endeavor and the loss, and the rebuilding, will be humanity's. Many of us who are neither French or Catholic will give to see the great cathedral restored as iconic as any of the 7 wonders of the ancient world.
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I can't believe this historic icon did not have modern fire proofing like new protective material, sprinklers etc.
In NYC, some very tall skyscrapers, taller then Notre Dame were built before modern codes and there has not been a major disaster like this to my memory.
In fact the Empire State building was hit by a plane and survived without a disaster like this.
@Paul
9/11? The Twin Towers, complete with modern fire systems, did not survive. Think about it.
6
A few years ago I read "Pillars of the earth" a wonderful novel about the builders and building of the great churches and cathedrals of Europe. People dedicated their lives to building these magnificent structures. I am not religious but can appreciate the devotion and sacrifice made by them. To see this magnificent Cathedral burn brought tears to my eyes
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Thanks for articulating what so many of us are feeling. Even if you had never seen it, never been to Paris or read the epynomous novel, you knew it. It was part of our collective consciousness as citizens of civilization. It is hard not to see the fire as a metaphor for civilization itself going up in flames, but perhaps we can interpret its survival and recovery as a sign that civilization in its peculiarly Gallic form will endure.
44
As a young man, in a city and country that I came quickly to love, I would meet friends there before we headed out. Every time I see the towers in any image, I think back to the best part of my youth, and how beautiful Paris was and is. And what Paris and France has given to all of us.
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To President Macron. My heart goes out to the people of France and am grateful for your promise to restore Notre Dame to its former glory. As I saw the roof beams fall I had a thought, rather than discard those charred wooden beams, make them into crosses of any size. They could be for rosaries up to monument size. It would be wonderful for people around the world to have a part of its history and would be an incentive to raise money needed to restore it.
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@Ben Daniele That is a wonderful idea! I hope someone sees this and brings it about. I for one would purchase one in memory of the past and as hope for the future.
6
@Ben Daniele There is a healing church in New Mexico that had it's tin roof replaced - and yes, they made and sold crosses from the tin. I sold mine a while back.
If the French are lucky, (and I suspect they will be) Notre Dame will be restored not modernized, like the Archdiocese did to the grounds of the Sanctuario in Chimayo, turning it into a commercial tourist zoo.
The firefighters of Paris should be commended for saving what could be saved, especially the iconic bell towers. They, like the craftsmen who built the cathedral, are now a part of its history forever and the world owes a debt of gratitude to them.
Rebuilding will be a massive undertaking, requiring a consortium of architects and architectural historians, engineers, construction workers, craftspeople of all kinds and more...yet I have no doubt that Notre Dame Cathedral will rise from the ashes and continue to reach for the heavens.
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A few years ago we took a night tour on a boat going up and down the Seine between the Ile and the Eiffel tower. it was a warm summer evening and the banks were lined with thousands of young people from all over the world. Just being there in the presence of Notre Dame and all the Parisian monuments that stand for civilization and history and the Western values expressed that night by the freedom of being able to congregate safely in the presence of grandeur. This was before the Batalan. Losing Notre Dame feels like part of a greater tide of loss. Arnold's Dover Beach comes to mind - hearing now louder than ever the melancholy, long, withdrawing roar.
27
Thanks, @Debbie Canada. Notre Dame is still with us -- needing a new roof and other repairs, but not lost.
4
Thanks for that. Sensibly said, and well said. The Kenneth Clark cameo perfectly summing it up at the end.
12
It took what, 100 years to build? Hard to imagine how any rebuilding could possibly capture the original gothic beauty or, for that matter, be commissioned in these French economic times.
Particularly the stained glass—the Rose Windows North and South. What a loss.
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@Truthbeknown
Just walked by this morning. The South Rose is still standing; it's probably been damaged by the heat, but it's there, and, as eyeballed from the South Bank, seems OK - no apparent gaping hole in it.
Don't know wbout the North Rose, as I was not able to get close enough.
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@Truthbeknown
I believe 200 years. The great cathedrals took generations to build.
1
Thank you for this close and tender update.
3
On one of my visits to Paris my wife and I stayed very near Norte-Dame cathedral.
Walking across a footbridge, the cathedral presents itself in way that is inviting, and was I immediately drawn to it.
Standing before this magnificent edifice I was in awe, not only the structure but what it represented and it’s history.
After it is rebuild I hope its rich tradition is preserved.
7
I’m not a tourist by nature. I’ve never seen Notre Dame. Honestly I’ve never seen much of anything. But I have an appreciation of historical perspective and reverence for concrete reminders of our past that reflect the visions of previous eras.
I hope that the cathedral will be restored in a manner that most closely reflects the original intent of the designers and builders. I’ll never see it but it should be preserved for the countless millions who will find inspiration in this magnificent structure.
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@John Vance Your touching comment about Notre Dame and yourself is the most heartrending I have read yet about this catastrophe. It brought tears to my eyes. I have seen Notre Dame many times but your sentiments really touched a multitude of feelings. Thank you.
1
Beautiful, heartfelt, and well written. This got me very emotional and I am not even French. When I arrive in Paris, one of my first stops is and will always continue to be the Notre Dame. Really appreciate the thoughtful history and symbolism :)
20
No other man made creation has inspired in me such a sense of awe and transcendence as the Cathedral of Notre Dame. I am surely blessed to have experienced it. The test of any restoration will be whether the restored cathedral will continue to generate such a profound experience.
17
This cathedral has an aura, something you feel deeply, which gives you an idea of transcendance. I've never felt it anywhere else. And it will never be lost, it will never burn. Keep it in your soul for ever.
2
The fire symbolizes what we all feel -- the collapse of belief in something bigger than ourselves in Western culture.
There is great irony that at least E300 million for restoration will come from consumer brand owners.
Perhaps better to leave the "bare, ruined choirs where late the sweet birds sang," to remind visitors of the hollowness of our culture and our disconnection from the natural world, from each other, and from the universe at this end of an age.
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@Frank
I understand where you are coming from but I wonder
if the greatness in the world comes when we unite to
build a beautiful, meaningful structure or support an
idea like the democratic values we seem to be losing.
12
@Frank nailed it
1
@Frank This Church was built by the immensely powerful Catholic Church, and French nobility. Why is it a surprise that the elite of today is going to repair it?
2
I write this having learned that the cathedral was spared the worst, and can be restored.
France is burning? or is it France is rejuvenating. I admire the French. "Burning" sounds helpless and chaotic. I do not interpret the unrest there in this fashion. After all, France is a place where thousands of young people take to the streets in protest of proposed changes to the pension system. Imagine that happening here in the USA.
France questions, argues, condemns, protests and reinvents. The French have an active politics and civic life. They are not helpless children acting out. Perhaps I am overly romanticizing them, but that's how it seems to me. Not a burning mess at all, but a nation where the neglected and abused insist on having a voice.
So the cathedral will be rejuvenated for the 21st century, as it was in past centuries. Hopefully they will omit the "iconic" spire. It was a hideous addition from the 19th century. I've always liked the design of the building except for that spire. To learn it was the source of the fire only adds to my belief that it didn't belong there in the first place. Reading up on the engineering of the building, it seems the stone-clad structure underneath was meant to hold the weight of the timber and lead roof, protecting the interior in just this sort of event. Then some dolt added a heavy spire to the top.
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@Duncan
As A Frenchman (and a lifelong Parisian) I find your comment very perceptive and mostly to the point.
I concur with you on the fact that the French appetite for protest and criticism (as exasperating as it can sometimes be) is a sign of health rather than a sign of illness.
However in my mind the "yellow vest" movement and its widespread vandalism cannot be condoned.
Finally you are a little bit harsh on the 19th century "dolt" who - indeed - decided that a spire would look good on Notre Dame. His name was Viollet-le Duc , and while he made very dubious choices over his long career, He was the quasi inventor of the notion of architectural heritage. And thanks to him countless monuments (castles churches etc) were saved from neglect and oblivion.
That being said, it will be and interesting debate to determine whether the rebuilding will include a spire or not, and whether me should take the opportunity to do thing a little bit differently this time.
Count on us French to debate, argue, protest, and march about it !!!!
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@frenchval
To rebuild the spire or not, that is a promethean question.
Is reaching to high tempting fate with hubris? Maybe, but I’d go with re building the spire. That level of woodcraft will be a challenge to the craftsman. Landowners might donate timber, and a sprinkler system could mitigate future fire risk.
4
@frenchval
I am against the spire, gargoyles, and all more or less "modern" additions. Keep things simple. Simplicity is always best.
5
I have many fond memories of Notre Dame to my first visit as a 22 year old kid in 1980 to my visit last May at the end of a trip to the southwest of France. Glad I took the time for a stroll inside before dinner in my favourite part of Paris. Much like France itself it will be rebuilt as it should be for the coming generations to enjoy like those before me and my own. Viva la France.
18
@Chris
One other thought, on your comment: "However in my mind the "yellow vest" movement and its widespread vandalism cannot be condoned."
I agree. I detest violence and vandalism, which usually only hurts the innocent and is ignored by the powerful, (or worse, used as justification for even greater authoritarian abuses).
But I would trade a little more "acting out" in protest for what we get here, (or in the UK for that matter). People tend to keep things bottled up, then do "big" things like elect Trump or vote for Brexit. Also, in the States people are conditioned to think it "loser-ish" to complain from a socio-economically weak position. People here gave up on the term "working class" decades ago. God forbid we'd describe ourselves as anything but "typical middle class Americans". It's a scam perpetrated by the elites that, sadly, people buy into. It makes us ripe for being suckered by charlatans like Murdoch, Trump, etc.
So far, the French have resisted the worst -- giving the country over to charlatan populists. (Of course I may eat those words with the next election). But, still, while acting out and protest can get out of hand, the alternative -- passivity until pressure becomes unbearable -- can be far worse.
2
@Chris
Sorry, Chris, I clicked the wrong tab. I was responding to a response to a post I made earlier. I liked your post, though. Thank you for sharing your memory, and your optimism.
We visited Notre-Dame on a Sunday during Oct 18. You can certainly sense the ancient feel when you are inside. It was lovely to be there and be a part of a prayer session even though we are not Christians.
When we tried to enter the seating area to join the prayer, the man at the entrance stopped us, said something in French and declined to gives us the sheet that contained the verses used in the prayer. I figured that it had to do with our race and the looks. We hesitated to turn back on the firm belief that Faith is enough for anyone to join a prayer gathering and wondered how someone would know whether we are Christians or not. After a little stand-off, another woman, a co-worker of the man, stepped in and gave us the prayer card and we joined session.
The prayer session was beautiful and we felt blessed to be there.
The damage to this beautiful church is sad! It did not look like a well maintained place. It is a same story with many churches in Australia too.
Hope the French do a good job of rebuilding it, soon!!
25
I visited Notre Dame "only" twice when I was in Paris in October, but every evening I would walk on the pathway along the Seine and stop at the same spot to look at her. When I travel, I realize I won't live enough lifetimes to see all the beautiful things on earth, but until yesterday it never occurred to me that those beautiful things might be impermanent.
The bell towers survived. I hear only one of the rose windows is lost. I hear the organ survived too. The fundraising to rebuild has started.
Michelle Obama, who was in Paris yesterday, wrote on Instagram that Notre Dame "lifts you to a higher understanding of who we are and who we can be." Yesterday as our hearts were breaking I saw a glimpse of the best we can be, from people posting memories and photos on social media to the crowds singing hymns in Paris. Thank you for the quote from Kenneth Clark.
244
Unfortunately, the organ is lost, destroyed by fire and water. We'll rebuild even if it's going to need decades
11
@Gadea I'm sorry. I had heard conflicting reports. You will rebuild it!
6
@Katie
Here our tears over the destruction of a majestic church are on full display, but where are our tears over the majestic, life sustaining rainforests burnt to scorched earth, our collapsing oceans, our dying honey bees and kindred ecological treasures?
We're basically all Saint Dénis (whose statue adorns the cathedral) today, giving sermons rendered useless since our head that's giving these has already been chopped off from its life-giving foundation, by ourselves...
When Notre Dame was built, we were already busy logging the original forests in Europe. There were people aware back then already that the gentry was involving itself in shameless, disconnected hubris burning the place down for their lavish parties and debauchery. Today we accelerated and outsourced this type of destruction to an industrialized delirium of destruction by our careless palm oil and plastic etc. consumption with abandon. Even as the 99% has come to struggle in the West we all outmatch the medieval gentry in the extent to which we cause havoc with our consumerist choices: say hello to some dawning awareness on who you really are.
It's not the first fire at Notre Dame btw. The last Templar Grand Master Jacques de Molay was executed for heresy in front of it by slow burning at the stake 700 years and 13 months ago and he did not fail to cast a passionate curse. (Got to warn I penned this from a guy who writes for Infowars.) The curse came true, as we now have info warfare burning us alive...
"A France in Turmoil Weeps..." is a bit sensationalistic, don't you think?...the country is in no more turmoil than the US is. Making a symbolic connection to the 'yellow vest' movement and recent civil unrest is not what I hear from my French family and friends, so let's keep the focus on the magnificent pieces of cultural and architectural history that went up in flames and on humanity's innate ability to rebuild. No doubt that the cathedral will appear again in all its splendour, in whatever form and however long the restoration and rebuilding may take.
110
Despite the recent and continuing social unrest of the “gilets jaunes” roiling France, and the continuing unpopularity of Emmanuel Macron, it was still a comfort to listen to his unifying, and dignified message while addressing the nation on a tragedy which rightly transcends politics in the heart of every French man and woman. He found the right words to praise the heroic actions of the fire services and delivered a message of hope to French citizens and the rest of the world that it is in France’s “destiny” to rebuild what has been lost.
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@Susan
The opportunity to unite in facing tragedy is a saving grace for now for him, but it still looks like France will have Macron brulée a bit too much for dessert, and unfortunately the ghost of our divisive, bigoted, hateful past repackaged to suit our times in the person of Marine Le Pen and others is looming large and preying on the gullible in the wings of all the uproar and unsettlement.
When the fundamental structures underpinning our society seem to come undone for sheer unfettered top-down kleptocratic greed undermining them, it's fair game for a populist bonfire of resentful inhumanity doubling down on that greed in the name of quenching it.
8
@Susan How very different from our own president.
13
@Susan Words are cheap. Macron is dismantling so much of what the French cherish about their country. It wasn't that people wanted Macron, they didn't want LePen. LIke Trump, he doesn't care what the people want, he is determined to remake France.
3
why I LOVE this newspaper. A perfect tribute to Notre Dame. it's 4:14 am, back to sleep. viva la france
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@middledge
Thank for the sentiment , but would I be French if I didn't tell you that it's "vivE la France" not "viva" which is Spanish... :-)
19
@middledge
Why I too love the New York Times...the Times stands in the breach for us too against the abomination that is Donald Trump...and sadly many Americans seem to have forgotten or never learned about our shared history with France and our debt we owe her..the Founders took so much from France in terms of ideas that under gird our republic....or used to before Trump. And yes...Viva la France...
24
@Dianne It would help in the appreciation of that history if Americans actually read books. In this case, Hugo's Notre Dame de Paris.
5
Allons enfants de la patrie...take faith, our hearts are with you. As a student in France, staying nearby, I visited the church and will always remember it as a refuge.
28
I visited the Notre-Dame cathedral as a tourist in the summer of 1963 with some friends from the Experment in International Living. I was very disappointed and had the impression that maintenance of the site was very poor. The only person from the cathedral that we saw was a clergyman who reaked of garlic. As for the stained-glass windows, I think St. Patrick's cathedral in NYC and many churches in Romania are more beautiful. Restoration of Notre-Dame will be a waste of money if daily maintenance is not improved.
1
@BJM 1963, that was 56 years ago. You are frozen in time.
6
Notre Dame is very dear to our hearts, but the center of French identity it is not. Religion has been a contentious issue in France for a long time (key term: laïcité), and Notre Dame, even if it is indeed a shared treasure, can't be completely immune to that. For better or worse, when looking for the center of French identity (frenchness?), the events of 1789 would probably be a better place to start, and I very much doubt that most "yellow vests" see any symbolic link between the social safety net and Notre Dame. In any case, center or not, it is a terrible loss, deeply felt by all.
98
@Jean-Francois D`Well, first, it is a center of French historical identity (Saint-Louis, Jeanne d'Arc, Napoleon, etc.). Second, laicite has largely thrown out the baby with the baptismal water and denied spirituality as well as religiosity. I'm not Christian, much less Catholic, but the connection to the beauty of the universe and the human spirit created by contemplating those Gothic windows is the same as the reverence I feel looking at the Parthenon, or St. Sophia, or the Pantheon. Perhaps more, since those Gothic manipulators of light really knew how to get through to the emotions. Notre-Dame is one of the supreme creations of the human spirit, and part of its value is in showing how that spirit transcends local dogmas. As for the events of 1789, I'm with Camus that they started a nihilist worship of reason, probably worse than the worship that preceded it. Here's to evolution, not revolution, in politics.
8
France’s loss is also humanity’s loss. Notre Dame is infused with the memory of countless people, important and unimportant, who over the centuries helped build and care for a symbol of faith and perseverance. Paris will not be the same until hopefully we see again Notre Dame rise from the ashes.
42
The things of today, well, they are transactional, virtual, political, fungible, replaceable and eerily empty.
This creation, Notre
Dame, well, it is beautiful, it endures, it can be touched and yes it can be shattered, it can burn. Do we have the capacity to build something like this today? I don’t think so. Might we be able to restore it, renew this old, faithful, elegance? I hope so.
43
@Curious My greatest fear when hearing about Macron's promise to rebuild was that he would do what so many of this era's elite do, hire some trendy architect to "redesign" the cathedral. Apparently the immediate source of the fire was the wooden spire added by some trendy neo-gothic architect of the 19th century. Why can't they leave well enough alone and just fix the things that need to be fixed?
6
@Jim Linnane I imagine that they will try to rebuild it exactly as it was on 14 April 2019 but making sure it has 21st fire safety precautions.
4
Notre Dame will be rebuilt. One may hope that there will be a middle ground between what would have been done in the middle ages -- a building in the latest style -- and our tendency to try, as Viollet did, to make it look as if nothing has happened since the original construction. Let us hope that there will be some real space for the new, even as we restore most of the old.
15