University of Toronto psychologist Jordan Peterson provides an interesting idea about astrology. It seems that it serves a useful propose when the world becomes too chaotic. People tend to project things onto the chaos of the night sky:
"The Archaic person looks at the sky, and uses his imagination to populate the sky. What's the sky? It's the constellations, it's the domain of the Gods. Well why? Because the Gods are out there beyond your understanding. Well that's what you see when you look up into the sky. So you populate the night sky with figures of your imagination. So the Gods are the things that you broadcast out of your imagination and see spread over the world.
It's like the contents of your unconscious are manifesting themselves when you encounter the unknown. It's exactly what it is. How else could it be? Right. You're projecting your fantasy onto what you don't understand. That's how you start to cope with what you don't understand. You populate the unknown with Deities. Where did they come from? They came from your imagination. Well what happens when you take them out of the world? Do they disappear? No, they just go back into your imagination. So that's where Jung dug down to find them." (0:40:18)
Cite:
Peterson, Jordan B. 2017 Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief. Lesson 10
https://youtu.be/7XtEZvLo-Sc
11
@W
Nowadays it’s clear that authentic engagement with astrology and other occult systems is increasingly untenable. Is this a bad thing? I don’t know — but whereas astrology haters cheer its demise, a few (like me) tend to lament the loss. And it’s a special kind of loss when one sees all hope of nuanced understanding replaced by ignorance, frivolity, and monetization. I can see why people hate astrology. Perhaps this state of affairs is a metaphor for contemporary American life: so much poverty masquerading as abundance.
1
@W
I agree with Peterson, and it's refreshing to see a nuanced view like his. There is a lot to be learned from astrology (about history, culture, psychology) even if it's "fake," as the NYTimes must constantly remind its readers.
It's fairly clear that authentic engagement with astrology is increasingly untenable, most of all in public. Is this a bad thing? I don’t know — but whereas astrology haters cheer its demise, a few (like me) lament the loss.
And it’s a special kind of loss when one sees almost all hope of nuanced understanding replaced by ignorance, frivolity, and monetization. I can see why people hate astrology as it's peddled in the West. Perhaps this state of affairs is a metaphor for contemporary American life: so much poverty masquerading as abundance.
2
@W
Funny that Peterson be quoted in for this issue. Peterson is just parroting the likes of Dr Margaret Hamilton, psychologist Susan Blackmore and Baggini who have stated the long before Peterson. Peterson, like astrologist, saw a lucrative market in 20-32 year old individuals with daddy issues and disposable income, and was later absorbed by the lost souls of the alt right to which he catered openly to in order to make a buck. (Not that you are among that demographics.) Unlike astrologists who target mainly young women, Peterson has rehashed the failed "men's movement" headed by Robert Bly in the 1980s, and added a dash of stoic philosophy that was back in vogue to do exactly what astrologists do, prey on the gullible or those seeking validation or acceptance.
10
As an mundane / psychological astrologer of 30+ years experience in the field, I've come to fear these articles showing up in The Times. They almost always end up focusing on the silly, flimsy, and maddening aspects of the profession. And any time that I see entrepreneurs viewing astrology as a vehicle for making lots of money, I become especially worried.
IMHO, astrology works well within a certain rough set of parameters. I find it, for instance, extremely effective at describing the likely shape of the emerging zeitgeist for a period.
For instance, the dwarf planet Pluto entered the tropical zodiac phase of Capricorn three times over the last 500 years. The years of its initial ingress into this phase were 1515, 1762, and 2008. In each instance, revolutionary energies were almost immediately unleashed - from the firestorm that followed Luther's extremely well-intentioned postings of his 95 Theses, to Parliament's passage of the Stamp Act (in an effort to help pay the bills incurred in the extremely popular 7 Years War), to finally the onset of the World Financial Crisis, the aftermath of which we are still dealing with.
To anyone familiar with the astrological metaphor, it was reasonable to expect Pluto's ingress in 2008 to introduce a historical development that would seek to upend the entrenched, fossilized structures of our time to its core. And yet even the best of us could not reasonably expect to foresee the specific stages of the crisis we now face.
(more)
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@Matthew Carnicelli
The problem with "works well within a certain rough set of parameters" is that this means NOTHING. Shooting bullets into the side of a barn, finding a cluster and then drawing a circle around that cluster only makes you a 'Texas Sharpshooter'. Without controls this is all just happenstance.
15
@Matthew Carnicelli
I'm sorry, but this is complete and utter balderdash. What, pray, is the meaning of
"likely shape of the emerging zeitgeist for a period"?
The whole thing looks like some giant hoax being played by Borat/Ali G.
12
@Victor Lacca
In my experience, mundane astrology reveals trends that typically cannot be identified in advance by other means. I believe that my body of mundane work clearly demonstrates this. I invite everyone to read it.
On the other hand, there is far too much everyday astrology that is based on tradition and psychological projection.
Michel Gaquelin attempted the first extensive quantitative studies of astrology (see The Mars Effect), and as far as we're concerned, his research remains valid (even if he confirms no preexisting astrological tradition, and, in fact, establishes a new one).
However, the methodology that Gaquelin used was necessarily problematic, inasmuch as he was attempting to tease out subtle, internalized components of psyche via reporting in books and newspapers, and then correlate these teased out elements with single-factor planetary alignment (a major limitation, given the reality that the majority of planets within a horoscope tend to be involved in one alignment or another).
Since Gaquelin's rude and dishonest treatment at the hand of Psicops, very few researchers have stepped up to run the gauntlet of the debunker / materialist community.
I tend to do an atmosphere astrology nowadays, an astrology that acknowledges that I likely have an incomplete toolset at my disposal. However, as stem cell pioneer Robert Lanza observes in his two books, Biocentrism and Beyond Biocentricsm, string theory theorists apparently do the same thing...
5
Astrology is a well kept secret among certain traders on Wall Street.
One study found that there are only four ways to reliably predict (time) the market: Gann studies, Fibonacci, Elliot Wave, and Astrology. All except for Fibonacci require many years of study.
Astrology is also valued by many of the ultra-rich and many in power including the Founding Fathers. This country was founded on an occult base.
There is much below the surface of reality that is entirely closed to those with small minds. There are age-old arcane truths the average person never suspects. He looks but does not see.
Below the surface of your mind's every-day reality is infinity, and there be unimaginable organizing structures and strange conscious entities down there.
Better not look too deep, save it for your next afterlife (this present "life" also being an afterlife).
6
Well that leaves out contrarian theory, which works well and has for a long time.
if i has some of that capital i’d revolutionize Google ads. imagine advertising to people on what they need now botnek what they already bought.
What is the astrological sign of a baby born on Mars? Or any planet not Earth? Um.... none, I guess. Because the "zodiac" signs don't exist in the sky of any other planet. Actually they dont exist here either. Ever wonder why the zodiac signs dont look like the constellations in the sky? Duh, its because te planets and stars and everything has moved around in the last thousands of years. Silly-con Valley.
Again we see the result of low intelligence of the population and the sociopathic willingness of venture capitalists to exploit it. Astrology is nothing but faith-based nonsense and while the VC might justify it as entertainment, it is really just accelerating the decline of our technologic and science based civilization. Anything to make a buck!
Astrological belief is based on the notion that the Sun's position in the sky (and the moon and the planets) at the date and time of birth, relative to certain star constellations, strongly determines a person's personality, and even their fate. The constellations (like Cancer and Pisces in Western astrology) indicate characteristics that match those of the thing the constellation is named (Cancer - Crab; Pisces - Fish), with modifiers from the anthropomorphic characteristics of the planets and the moon (Jupiter - leader; Mars - warlike or aggressive). That's simplified, of course, but not by much.
The problem is that because of the Earth's precession, the constellations in the sky at the prescribed periods, according to various astrologies 2600 years old or older, are not the constellations in the sky at those periods today. Therefore, if astrology has any truth to it, that would not include the notion of particular constellations (which are usually made up of stars of wildly varying distances from the Earth) exerting some kind of influence on babes aborning.
The only way astrology might have validity is if people and events born at various times of the calendar generally fall into distinct sets of patterns, and over hundreds or even thousands of years ancients merely mapped the occurrence of those patterns to the stars' positions, but the stars don't actually affect us. The Earth's precession wouldn't matter, then.
This is problematic, too. Can you see why?
1
@Barry Williams
Wesrern astkrogy foliws the Tropical Zodiac, the seasons, and thus doesn’t have this problem. Sidereal astrology which follows the constellations also does not have this problem because they use the precessional signs.
if you’ve spent less than 1 year studying astrology you may be able to have the belief that there are obvious problems with its theories. but those that have more than a year realized evey obvious problem has been considered and thought through for a thousand years.
1
When I was a teen, my friends and I studied "Linda Goodman's Love Signs" and discussed at length whether say, a Pisces girl was better off dating a Sagittarius boy, a Leo boy or the ultimate "bad boy," a Scorpio. Good times.
I've been into astrology for 50 yrs. Who's Susan Miller? In astrology a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. An astrologer needs to pick a lane & stay in it: Vocational, Psychological, Horary, Relocation, Mundane, Political, Meteorological, Compatibility & Synastry & Composite, Medical, Chart Rectification, Cosmobiology, Astrocartography, Economic Cycles, Uranian Astrology, etc. Like the medical field, astrology requires lifelong study. I don't call astrology a science - I call it my religion which is the most empirically validated of any religion. The ancient Egyptian priests were astrologers. See Carl Jung's research in chart comparison relationship astrology.
2
The venture capitalist voodoo casino, kind of fits the Trump circus.
1
Question: Why doesn't the NY Times have an article written by a real astrologer, or by someone with more genuine motivations about astrology?
4
Barnum said that nobody ever went broke underestimating the American public.
Nuff' said, right ?
1
After reading several of these posts--My favorite...Rah..."We are in more trouble than I thought"--I can only say this is an amazing article. Astrology via technology. I can hardly wait to find my own astrologer.
Explanations abound for human beings, but there still doesn't seem to be enough. Maybe it is because the parish Priest is busy, or your congressman is out of town raising money for the next campaign, or Communism wacked out in 1989...or Capitalism has hit a dry period. It doesn't matter.
Astrology wears a patina of confidence, the appearance of calm, and hints at a depth of mood and understanding I've never felt before.
I'm sold. I'm going to invest!
1
What I find most disheartening is that more than half of GenY and Millenials are convinced that astrology is science. Astrology is no different than faith in that it is based on social, emotional and psychological factors. On a positive note, at least the concept of a deity has deminished and that a belief in one is necessary for good morals. Hopefully evidence and logic will win out. Baby steps I suppose.
4
That this is coming out from the Style rather than the Science section is all I really need to know. Bye-bye...
1
@Giskander
Science? It' should have been in Business.
1
We are in more trouble than I thought.....
3
The ethics involved in providing a fraudulent service -- claiming to analyze a person based on remote star positions -- is damning.
If stealing money from the gullible is your idea of leaving your mark for the ages upon the world, then I'm sure there's a Cabinet-level position or two opening up in the very near future.
7
I have studied astrology on and off for many years, it makes me sick to hear about tech bros intruding into my world, thank God for the astrologers who still work face to face, who write books and do in person consultations and classes. I understand why an astrologer would use digital tools to help spread their business and reach people, but for me I need a non digital option for this one.
3
@maria5553 Astrology is 100% false. And I am not making comments about the brains of people who believe in it, as the NYT comment section is supposed to remain polite.
1
So Birnbaum has finally found the most financially secure way of defrauding the public.
Here's hoping it's a miserable failure and he loses his the majority of his investment.
9
Thanks for this important article.
Of course, ones perspective is important, and the study, whether deliberate or unconscious, of personality types and their interactions is fundamental to human beings,
The materialistic rationalism so prevalent among "serious" people—those who ridicule others for their beliefs without bothering to inquire as to the nature of those beliefs—are the darkest blinders of all.
Ignorance and arrogance are found under every star, no question.
I'm not fully in agreement with Carl Jung, below, as there is far more going on than meets the eye, but let's just leave it at this for now.
"Astrology is not mere superstition but contains some psychological facts (like theosophy) which are of considerable importance. Astrology has actually nothing to do with the stars but is the 5000-year-old psychology of antiquity and the Middle Ages."- C.G. Jung in a letter to L. Oswald on December 8, 1928, in Carl G. Jung, Letters, vol. 1, 1973
3
@Peter Fraterdeus AstroCalligraphics.com: in short, it's a con based on the exploitation of predictable human fallibilities which has enjoyed repeated success for the past 5,000 (or more) years. Dr. Jung was on to something -- that does indeed have nothing to do with the stars.
1
Well, astrology is no more woo-woo than religion. But it doesn't promise eternal life in paradise, so I guess the evangelical preachers don't have too much to worry about.
7
I have been a practicing astrologer for almost 50 years. During that time I’ve found that most of the people who criticize astrology the strongest have very little idea what it is, and how it should be used.
It is not a belief system but a tool.
Like weather predictions, it will not tell you what you should wear, only present the conditions for you to make choices.
A good astrologer, when reading a chart is like a musician reading sheet music.
It is an art and a science. If one studies the methods and the evolution of scientists’ and artists’ concepts they will see both disciplines at work. The same is true for archeologists, historians, mathematicians; their application of and the following of their intuition is fundamental to their work.
There are good and bad astrologers, and I won’t recommend anyone going to a bad dentist, but if you do, don’t blame dentistry.
I do see why we have Trump as president, astrologically. And it won’t be the same for everyone, even those born in the same day and time.
Finally, those situations where people were tested by being given the wrong charts they can’t be blamed: they were given the wrong data, given information. How often does that happen to an unsuspecting public led by incorrect or false claims?
12
@djehuitmesesu Astrology is only a belief system.
Like so many other belief systems, it is entirely untrue.
It is based on nothing but wishful thinking and vanity.
And greed.
@nestor potkine Have you ever had a reading from a competent astrologer? Are you familiar with developments and advances in the last 40 years? Can you name any of the literature and writers, or gone to any of the seminars that is current or from the recent period? I understand why you would find those not in your interest, but until you have reasonably explored what astrology really is, it can be said that your opinion is more a belief than a knowledgeable critique. I know of quite a few astrologers who began their study by thinking to debunk it. Some of them made important contributions!
Warmly, djehuitmesesu.
1
The article and comments together made me call after my wife who joined me for a great chuckle and a big head scratch. People, specially women, have always leaned towards the occult: It is the digital opiate for the modern masses. I have no doubt that it will make millions!
3
So those of us who consult their astrologic forecasts are narcisists? No wonder Trump is where he is. As someone with a Masters in Marriage & Family Therapy, I see the damage the "science" of psychology does to people: diagnosing anyone who doesn't agree with you has become America's fastest growing sport neh? Show me all the "research" that goes into the DSM please. Not that it isn't useful. But WHO gets to diagnose? is the constant question. There is no test, x-ray, blood or hair sample, CAT scan, ad infinitum to show the soundness of the diagnosER just as there is no test to show the soundness of the diagnosis. Women have long endured persecution, who can blame us for looking to the stars for help, cuz there is so little here in the United States.
3
@Barbara Maier That is no excuse.
April 1 was a few weeks ago.
I find it interesting that an app has been developed to compare your birth charts and forecasts. What better confirmation of how unhinged and implicitly wrong they are that an app to compare two has been found to be needed.
I like fiction, too, but to see this kind of money in woo-woo types of deceptive products is sad. Buy and read dime novels but the risk is that those showing complete lack of reasoning skills and investigating snake oil claims as a method to 'guide' your life is finally having Nostradamus have one of his predictions finally come true: "Sometime in the future something bad might happen..."
5
@reid When someone consults an astrologer about their relationship, it’s not necessarily because their relationship is in trouble. It’s gain insight, perspective, and to understand the rhythms of it.
5
Or something that a good bartender at a quiet bar offers.
Or a good friend who isn't judgmental.
This was an interesting (and entertaining) read. Thanks!
@Brock When I was living in a dorm at college many years ago, one of the guys was a DJ and stringer for a small town paper. The boss was cutting corners, and instead of buying the daily horoscope, asked him and a few of his buddies to come up with the tripe that sounded similar to the verbiage he had been paying some syndicate to produce. They had a blast in the break room doing it, and considered it fun enough that they did it for years. If he could be believed, his report was that the editor of the paper had received numerous letters from readers about how much more accurate and predictive the new astrologer he was using compared to the previous one.
Who could have seen that coming?
6
@reid You could also call that fraud and misrepresentation. People are getting ripped off for everything, for cars, ID. There are bodies, astrological organizations that seek out and put the word on such phonies. There are also standards. But most people who aren't familiar with astrology don't know about that.
Just another brick in the wall of creative writing (software) for entertainment - interactive busywork.
You'd think more of that VC money would be looking for real solutions to real problems. I guess either we don't have any real problems anymore, or the investment funds are in the hands of those with no understanding and imagination.
6
We really are heading back to the Middle Ages.
Next the anti-vaxxers will be offering talismans to guard against illness.
I feel like I've landed in some sort of lunatic asylum.
34
Surely you're joking?! April Fools day is over. I get fortune cookies for free when I take out Chinese food, and they contain as much wisdom as horoscopes, maybe more.
11
Shakespeare (as usual) got it right:
This is the excellent foppery of the world, that,
when we are sick in fortune,--often the surfeit
of our own behavior,--we make guilty of our
disasters the sun, the moon, and the stars: as
if we were villains by necessity; fools by
heavenly compulsion; knaves, thieves, and
treachers, by spherical predominance; drunkards,
liars, and adulterers, by an enforced obedience of
planetary influence; and all that we are evil in,
by a divine thrusting on: an admirable evasion
of whoremaster man, to lay his goatish
disposition to the charge of a star! My
father compounded with my mother under the
dragon's tail; and my nativity was under Ursa
major; so that it follows, I am rough and
lecherous. Tut, I should have been that I am,
had the maidenliest star in the firmament
twinkled on my bastardizing.
King Lear, Act I, Scene II
p.
14
Erin, you brought humor to a topic that would otherwise be more depressing than an architectural treasure engulfed in flames.
>>“I get that you’re not into astrology,” she said, “but if you had access to a 20-something or teenager who is a girl, that’s who you need to talk to.”
A lot of things can be blamed on the patriarchy, but, women, this one’s on you.
6
'Co-Star’s website promotes the fact that astrology allows “irrationality to invade our techno-rationalist ways of living.” The app has been downloaded more than three million times. Its Instagram account has more than 400,000 followers.'
I can't bloodly believe they just plainly stated that they are a fraud for irrational people and people still ate that up like sugar.
7
The attacks against astrology are just another example of religious contention.
That said. the practice is protected by the Free Exercise Clause, as is the country by The Establishment Clause.
2
"Anarghya Vardhana, a partner at Maveron and a Libra, said Co-Star has the potential to be as big as Spotify, the music streaming app worth $24 billion, or Tinder, the ubiquitous dating app owned by Match Group."
Just... no. Absolutely no way. A lot of people like to hook up, and a lot of people like music, but comparing personal astrology information? Just doesn't seem quite as mainstream as those other services, and I can't see that becoming commonplace. For painfully obvious reasons many commenters here have mentioned.
2
Men propose to women, and women have a narrow window of fertility. Other than making themselves more attractive and playing coy, they have no other ways to effectuate a man's decision in their favor.
Predictive arts, even if they are unreliable, bring some sort of order to this uncontrollable situation. So women have very good reasons for resorting to astrology and other magical means of predicting the future.
As a skeptical and cynical Sagittarius I believe that all astrological predictions are lucky guesses if the event predicted happens. I do not believe that astrology carries any scientific validation. As for person harmony between the signs and elements one meshes with whoever they find an attraction to. My partner is a Capricorn. Astrology claims fire and earth don't mix but we have been together for over 30 years. I know that astrology is strong in cults and with New Age practitioners but for those of us who don't belong its just fantasy and fiction.
1
Astrology "works" - but only for those with certain intuitive qualities of mind who focus and sustain their study over many decades. Then you stumble upon an unsuspected reality, a timeless archetypal order underlying this mundane world; a new dimension of possibility - shimmery, strange and real - foundational to everyday reality.
Before the West developed tools for the mathematical and geometrical exploration of space, the Chinese had been exploring the structure of time and its repetitive (and therefore predictable) cycles of change.
Astrology is the Western study of time and is concerned with explaining how the inner cyclical nature of time creates the world as it progressively unfolds and reveals itself to our minds.
There is an inner and outer aspect - very few get past the surface.
4
@Fourteen14
Science also "works" - and fortunately for all of us, not just for the believers.
15
The Chinese also bound women’s feet. Argument from antiquity is a logical fallacy, but I’m pretty sure that won’t bother you.
9
Of course, ones perspective is important, and the study, whether deliberate or unconscious, of personality types and their interactions is fundamental to human beings,
The materialistic rationalism so prevalent among "serious" people—those who ridicule others for their beliefs without bothering to inquire as to the nature of those beliefs—are the darkest blinders of all.
Ignorance and arrogance are found under every star, no question.
I'm not fully in agreement with Carl Jung, below, as there is far more going on than meets the eye, but let's just leave it at this for now.
"Astrology is not mere superstition but contains some psychological facts (like theosophy) which are of considerable importance. Astrology has actually nothing to do with the stars but is the 5000-year-old psychology of antiquity and the Middle Ages."- C.G. Jung in a letter to L. Oswald on December 8, 1928, in Carl G. Jung, Letters, vol. 1, 1973
1
I recall John Stossel doing an episode for 20/20 where students, taking a night class, were all given a chart. Their response was very positive about how uncanny the chart matched their personality. Then it was revealed that not only were they given the same chart, but it was for a rather notorious mass murderer. At that point, their mood shifted, significantly.
14
Mad Magazine once did a piece that had two lists of Star Signs—one of celebrities and other famous people and the other of notorious and infamous counterparts with the SAME SIGNS. I read that when I was about 15 and I think it was the spark of my now well-honed skepticism.
2
Barnum may never have said "There's a sucker born every minute," but he surely knew it, and it made him rich. Still, religion is an even better investment; do any mega-churches sell stock?
11
@Thomas
No.
Indulgences.
3
"“I get that you’re not into astrology,” she said, “but if you had access to a 20-something or teenager who is a girl, that’s who you need to talk to.”"
Talk? Like, face to face? Not now, texting.
1
Look to science to provide answers. If science can’t, then there are none. Be at peace with the gaps in our understanding, and embrace uncertainty where it clearly exists, about the past, present and the future. Be ready to embrace new perspectives as new data displaces old data.
Mysticism, superstition and religion have not added one iota to the body of knowledge about ourselves and our place in the cosmos. They simply provide false, convenient and comforting answers for the foolish and the vulnerable. Those who exploit that yearning for gain are charlatans.
9
@Xoxarle
True: taking advantage of another's gullibility, wishful thinking, or ignorance for your own profit is unethical and immoral, and I might hope for such enterprises to fail spectacularly.
But many if not most astrologers genuinely believe in their religion, and believe strongly that what they do is meaningful and helpful.
As an atheist committed to religious freedom (including, of course, freedom *from* religion), I fall back on the Beatles: Whatever gets you through the night is alright.
Coin flips are sustainable.
3
"Non-shady"???? Astrology will ALWAYS be shady. Isn't one of the definitions of 'shady' astrologers? We as a species are doomed, this is a sure sign of it. Especially from the Birnbaums of the world.
9
Astrology is based on centuries of actual observation by the finest minds of their times of both of the characteristics of people with the various astrological placements and of the real world events that took place under those placements. If you have any kind of an open mind I suggest you google Saturn conjunct Pluto in Capricorn which will occur in January 2020 but which has an effect for several years in advance and compare what you read to current events.
6
This Capricorn Saturn Pluto south node conjunction has likely not happened more than once before in human history... It's a tough ride, but can bring much insight :-)
1
Anyone marketing an astrology service makes payday lenders look reputable by comparison. What's next – three-card Monte futures?
13
Shame, shame, shame.
Tech startups are supposed to create value by newly-developed means. Technology is agnostic to its application. Once released into the wild, it will inevitably be used in every conceivable way.
Silicon Valley has a heritage of nurturing brand-new technology into household products.
Has it now decided that profitability is the overriding essence of value?
5
@Jack
This is America! Profitability is the ONLY indicator of value.
1
Glad to see the Valley getting even more on board. I have worked in this field on both apps and online and my clients range from millennials to older and very successful business people of all varieties. The app I work on has been in this business for 20 years and at one point was owned by ATT. This is a huge business and like any business, has it flaws and benefits. Sanctuary is taking a leap and putting money where it's mouth is and I am all for it. Perfect timing being that Saturn is in Capricorn for a couple more years. Open minds can actually learn something new.
There is lot to Astrology, but these apps are more for entertainment. I have studied astrology and the position of the stars at the time you are born, has a tremendous impact on your life.
I give one simple example.
1. If you have Mars in your 7th house of horoscope, you would have a discontent filled marriage and your chances of divorce in USA would be at least 70%.
2. If you have Jupiter in your 7th house of horoscope, just the opposite. Your spouse would be almost divine and no divorce.
I will bet on it. People who have studied Astrology, believe in it. The people who have not studied Astrology, doubt it.
1
People who study conspiracy theories believe conspiracy theories. People who study science believe you have to have actual evidence to get your theory accepted.
8
These astrology schemes seem to be all about the silver. I suggest a deck of Tarot cards may be a better investment. And could make you, too. popular at parties.
I used to give Tarot card readings for entertainment every year on New Year's Eve. Using a simple formula, and broadly interpreting the cards, I had takers lined up for readings even the skeptics inevitably described as "uncanny" and "valuable". Was I skilled or gifted as a card reader? Was it the cards themselves that granted insight? Was it the urgent longing of my audience members to find some meaning in a chaotic universe? Or my earnest desire to implant a nugget of hope to possibly inspire or at least support friends dealing with complex issues? (My "clients" were not required to reveal the question they asked the cards.) Probably the last two, but it was fun and despite my gypsy roots, no silver crossed my palm.
Some consider Tarot black magic, however. Woo-woo!
6
how great that astrology is on the way back! I've found awesome readings at nessofastrology.com -- helped me like no one else can.
2
@Smith Nelson
The business model of Big Zodiac is based on the well established fact that a sucker is born every minute.
6
People will be calling them and asking whether they should vaccinate their children. Politicians will be asking about starting a war. I've always thought that it's bad luck to be superstitious. One reader compared these phonys to Joel Osteen. It's not far off. "For the time will come when people will not tolerate healthy doctrine, but with itching ears will surround themselves with teachers who cater to their people's own desires." 2 Timothy 4:3 (ISV)
7
Remember that Nancy Reagan had an astrologer while she was First Lady.
3
To non-believers in the “occult”, a true story from an agnostic but “cultural” Hindu*!
For fun, I usually look at my ‘daily astrological’ prediction in an Indian newspaper, on line. One fateful Sunday, ten years ago, the prediction was: “You will buy a new car”! I already had an excellent functioning Lexus, just a year old. I dismissed the prediction as astrological mumbo-jumbo!
That evening, in a busy Houston Highway, a massive SUV jumped off the ‘exit fly-over’ and hit my car, ‘head on’! The car crumbled! My wife and I escaped with a few scratches and bruises!
We did buy a new car!
Were we spared to ‘bear witness’ to the ‘Stars” and the accuracy their predictions!
* One who does not the believe 'his religion' but be very proud of it! I cannot think of being born in another religion to reject it!
2
This is the realm of statistics not supernatural. Statistically, a small subset of a larger group will buy new cars on a given day. An even smaller subset may have to do it unexpectedly. But given a large enough sample, many of whom consult astrological hokum, a few are going to be impressed by a statistical coincidence, and dismiss the fact that the prediction did not come true for the vast majority. They will publicize this coincidence, like those who believe a prayer was answered, and the rest of the sample will stay quiet. Thus do the credulous reinforce their credulity.
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@T. Ramakrishnan, Just mere coincidence. Did not all others who read the same horoscope also buy new cars that day? DO the research.
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PT Barnum would be proud.
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Meditation, Ms. Guler said, is an antisocial way of interacting with the world.
OK.
How pathetic. If you can't make a buck off it then it is antisocial?
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Well if it was good enough for Nancy Reagan ......
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If you think that’s bad, remember old Ronnie believed in Trickle Down Theory.
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@Jean Did her horoscope predict Ronnie's Alzheimers Disease?
2
Like the sign used to say: If you think an education is expensive, wait until, you see how much ignorance costs.
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@David J: But if you invest in it, it will make you rich!
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@Thomas
Invest in which? Education or ignorance?
How does “psychedelic” fit in?
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In a world in which Goop earns money for Gwyneth Paltrow rather than criminal charges for theft by deception, why not? There's clearly no shortage of gullible people who insist on believing in woo.
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The Venn diagram of Set 1: astrology enthusiasts and Set 2: Trump supporters, overlaps at credulity.
By the way, I am a Scorpio and we don’t believe in astrology.
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@Vinyuvisha Panastar
Also, we're too busy running the world because the rest of you are just incompetent.
2
So now, after a series of "Styles" articles on the recipes that celebrities X, Y and Z use for "cleanses", we now have an article every couple of months on astrology, including Amanda Hess's "Astrology Is Fake but It’s Probably Fine". (No, it's not, any more than telemarketing scams are: people are being separated from their money, in some cases on a grand scale.)
n the movie "The Magnificent Seven", the villain (Eli Wallach), describes the villagers to Yul Brynner thus: "If God had not wanted hem sheared, he would not have made them sheep." Readers so bereft of critical thinking and an inability, or reluctance, to research the evidence deserve hucksters like Trump, who's doing in the large what the various practitioners and their enablers/investors mentioned here do in the small.
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This is embarrassing. In a time when preventable diseases are making a comeback we should be vigilant in scientific literacy, and rebutting this nonsense.
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@David
Fortunately (pun intended), astrology doesn't get specific enough to cause real harm.
I've invested in start-ups for 35 years, am a very loose believer in the power of the planets but Melinda Gates said it best in this weeks NYT Magazine "an app that tracks my dog is nice but people are dying."
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@richard Yes, people are dying, just as they always have. But saving a few million people a year from malaria so they can die crossing the Med ten years later after a life of misery and suffering doesn't seem all that useful either.
1
Here’s a fun experiment:
Select 12 people you don’t know and ask them any series of personality-based questions, or any question really but taking care to not ask anything (or to get an answer) that could cue when during the year the person was born. Then write down what sign you think they fall under. Then ask them. How did you do?
2
As an individual who earned a bachelor degree entitled, The History and Science of Astrology, I think that I know quite a bit more about the system of astrology that uses the 12 SIGNS of the TROPICAL ZODIAC than the average person or even the average astrologer. I earned my degree through the Bachelor's Degree with Individual Concentration program at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst in 1975. I have studied astrology, astronomy, politics and history for 50 years
Most people are sadly uniformed as to what astrology actually is. The tropical zodiac is the one which is most widely used in Western culture. It is based upon the Ptolemaic system of astrology/astronomy that persisted from the 2nd century C.E. up until the time of Kepler and Galileo. Kepler practiced astrology, as did the alchemist and physicist, Sir Isaac Newton.
An esteemed astrologer once told to me that although there are about 250,000 astrologers in America, only 400 of them can actually call themselves astrologers.
Only a handful of astrologers predicted Trump's victory in 2106. I predicted his victory in July of 2016 using astrological methodology.
I think that these superficial astrology-apps will be very entertaining. Yet, if they are taken too seriously, they could also be dangerous.
I stopped giving astrology advice over two decades ago. Most people who came to me for advice should have been seeking psychological help. I was and am not qualified to give therapy, so I ceased practicing.
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Would you please go into detail as to the methodology you used to predict President Trump’s win.
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@Larry Shea,
"Only a handful of astrologers predicted Trump's victory in 2106."
If he's around that long, I'm going to kill myself!
But seriously, you can probably find a handful of people correctly predicting almost anything. As they say, "Even a broken watch is accurate twice a day."
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@Larry Shea
I wish I didn't know that about UMass, my beloved and now rational alma mater.
Pretty good illustration of why capitalism doesn't work. Wealth and power are concentrated in the hands of a few people whose interests are not to organize labor and capital to the benefit of society, their interests are to do the dumbest thing the quickest while the world burns.
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It's a shame these VCs don't invest their billions in something that ACTUALLY makes the world a better place.
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@Ellen,
That's because VCs are not interested in what makes the world a better place. They are interested in what gives them a good yield on investment.
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J.P. Morgan was a vocal proponent of astrology and was fond of saying, “Millionaires don’t use astrology, billionaires do.”
5
The sad legacy of the late 20th Century; making literally trillions of dollars in wealth producing products made of thin air, virtually no intrinsic value at all.
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So privacy is valued in the digital world.Consulting some anonymous person to align your life with the planets and stars seems a perfect way to put personal information into the data stream.This data will be sold.You pay for the app and the developers gain again by bundling and selling data.This app may be lucrative for investors but it is just another trap for gullible consumers to lose any privacy they may have had.
12
I remember in the 1980s when astrology was front and center during the Reagan era. Later, in the 1990s, I worked for a brilliant young lady who also made million dollar decisions with an astrologer on speed dial.
People tend to want validation, order, or distraction in their daily lives. Astrology offers that. They are simplistic, positive blurbs that reinforce an individual's gut instincts providing validation and assurance that they are on the "right track."
Consulting astrology is also a rebellious act going against social norms, parental teaching and social conformity. It is no wonder that the primary demographics are young individuals in their 20s and 30s and empowers young women who are sometimes feel ignored by society.
It is also just fun and meaningless for many, like candy crush. Either way, if one wishes to throw money away for an app, only a fool would not crate one to sell them - that is capitalism.
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@Marty Hafner
It's not harmless. It leads to more detachment from reality.
1
@Marty Hafner
Agree on validation. I suspect that Nancy Reagan's employing an astrologer had a lot to do with her husband's declining health and a desire to protect him. Not a rational solution, but an understandable choice under the circumstances.
I don't really care about any of these apps or astrological consultations for my life.
but I'd be willing to kick in a few bucks if someone can accurately predict if tRump will get thrown out of office. that would be worth it.
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The resurgence of people taking astrology serious is troubling for more reasons than just the fact that they’re an openly exploitable target market for capitalists.
An arbitrary date on the Gregorian calendar, or a season of year in which we are physically born (does astrology still work if you’re pro-life?), has absolutely no bearing on whatever it is that we’re calling ‘reality’ these days.
14
So this guy is a skeptic yet he decides to invest in astrology because, hey, money? I had to read this several times and still doesn't compute. He deliberately spreads scientific ignorance?
What about putting his skepticism to good use and support education initiatives? We need more critical minds and scientific literacy, not less.
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I live in the Bay Area and have plenty of friends who seek advice through astrology and metaphysical avenues. I always roll my eyes and can't help but think they are rich. After growing up Catholic and then rejecting religion I am not so easily deceived! Plus I don't have money for things like that
14
Another business making profits on human stupidity and gullibility.
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@Armando I think there is a limitless supply of both of those commodities.
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"Millennials (and the rest of us) are lonely and want community ... Why wouldn’t we turn to the stars and moons and planets and houses of the horoscope?" Sounds like the same business plan as the evangelicals, especially the "prosperity gospel" hucksters like Joel & Victoria Osteen here in Houston. But who am I to criticize a couple worth about 50 million?
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“Start-ups — professional, non-shady ones with interesting business models”
Compared to what?
Oh never mind.
14
Wow - we really have no idea what to do with ourselves these fine days.
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Perhaps I should subscribe and ask if investing in such a business is a good idea?
4
Astrology will be proven to be a science when Insurance companies start denying claims of clients who took out big policies just ahead of catastrophic losses, based on a reading of their astrological charts.
10
A sign (no pun intended) of a financial bubble, for sure. Once capital has nowhere to go, it seeks out the frivolous.
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@Covfefe Frivolity can be fun. That's the point of astrology -FUN!
1
You have got to be kidding me! All I can say is, there's a sucker born every minute.
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@Adev
Suckers aren't born; they're created, like customers, every millisecond.
10
Yup, a sucker born every minute constitutes a big market with disposable income.
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@ACW
Sounds like they've determined that it is way more than just one per minute.
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We as a society are in trouble, but most of you already know that.
What does it take to teach critical thinking skills today? Suggestions on how to move forward in an environment of increasing hostility to logical thinking?
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@Victoria Bitter Good question. Here's a suggestion for moving forward in an environment of increasing hostility to logical thinking: Go back 20 years and educate an entire generation of teachers in liberal arts, philosophy and logic, economics and personal finance, civics and citizenship, foreign languages, world history and geography, and Latin and phonics. Then build a curriculum that ensures they unfailingly pass this knowledge on to their charges in grades K-12, creating an educated, clear-sighted electorate capable of critical and independent thinking. Oh wait--what's that you say? Too late?
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@Victoria Bitter Religion has been around for a long time and we've survived that.
Why are you giving credence to something that doesn’t even rise to the level of pseudoscience!?
Unless your article is to point out that VC’s are fine profiting off the predatory behavior of companies that take advantage of desperate people looking for answers in the stars, this shouldn’t be in the NYT.
There are SO many more companies worthy of coverage.
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@AG I feel like this is the norm with NYT now that you need such digital reach, they have to churn out articles so you get even more puff pieces like this, especially on a topic that is more known to a younger, more ethnically diverse, more female cohort than the NYT shot-callers
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If you were to stand by P.T. Barnum’s grave, you’d likely hear chuckling. Astrology, Flat Earth, Vaccine Denial, Brexit, Trump.
There really is one born every minute.
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My favorite line in this whole article is: Ms. Guler “did a really good job of understanding all of that and rooting it in as much science as possible.” Really? Some people clearly need to go back and take a middle school science class and learn what science is and is not.!
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“Start-ups — professional, non-shady ones with interesting business models — are bubbling up”
How is any mysticism-based business not shady by definition?
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Yes, it makes perfect sense that everyone born during the same thirty day period that the sun is in a sign would have the same traits! No it doesn't. That is foolishness.
The astrology referenced here is Western Sun-sign astrology, which was recreated from the ashes of the astrology books the "Church" didn't burn in the late 19th century. It uses the tropical zodiac, which has the planets 24 degrees ahead of their actual positions. Although disconnected from the actual heavens, chart readings still have some value in measuring the aspects -- angles -- between the planets. Alan Leo was a primary mover in this resurection, and psychiatrists found it useful -- Carl Jung, even Freud -- but only for the aspects.
Eastern Astrology -- notably India is absolutely different. Its indigenous "Hindu Astrology" has been preserved for thousands of years and is integral to that culture -- relating to all the forms of Yoga and Ayurveda. It uses the sidereal zodiac -- actual planetary positions. Thus, Hindu, or Vedic, Astrology predicts. The Indians call their astrologers "travelers in time."
6
"There's a sucker born every minute", whether PT Barnum said this is debatable, what's not is actuarial fact in the statement. People will believe in astrology, luck, anti-vaccination and the like, so we all have to live with the outcomes of these poor decisions and some- they will profit handsomely for having indulged these gullible multitudes.
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If someone chooses to believe something, that's their business, but they don't need a fake scientific analysis to make it look credible.
Let's reserve science for discovering facts. If we conflate belief with facts, we are making a huge mistake.
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What has to be kept in mind is that the value of astrology is not so much its prognostications but how it makes you feel. As the tenor of the times becomes more discordant and stressful, people look for answers that assuage fear, that seem to offer certainty and perhaps even hope. Investing in the area is intellectually cynical, but market wise, given what is on the horizon. There were (and perhaps still are) market analysts who made (make) use of astrology. But that was (is) arguably more to cloak their insights than to generate them.
9
"As the tenor of the times becomes more discordant and stressful, people look for answers that assuage fear, that seem to offer certainty and perhaps even hope."
It was in the depth of the Great Depression -- 1933 I believe -- that Superman comic was created.
7